The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  May 2004

  May 1:

   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Stanford - Ray Stanford [40]
   Three Canadian UFO Reports April '04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research
   [115]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [30]
   Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe - Terry W. Colvin [343]
   Re: Will-O-The Wisps - Brock - Rod Brock [31]
   Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component - - Larry Hatch [17]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Hatch - Larry Hatch [8]
   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hatch - Larry Hatch [29]
   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hatch - Larry Hatch [14]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Hatch - Larry Hatch [8]
   Paranormal Students Group - Terry W. Colvin [27]
   Re-Enacting A Visit From The Green Men - Terry W. Colvin [61]
   Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist - Terry W. Colvin [507]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [18]
   Re: Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe - Hale - Roy Hale [7]
   1957 Everittstown New Jersey CE3 Claim - Jerome Clark [82]
   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Miller - Stuart Miller [20]
   Stellarton, Nova Scotia - Barbell Shaped Object - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [68]

  May 2:

   Caverns Measureless To Man - Terry W. Colvin [90]
   Re: 1957 Everittstown New Jersey CE3 Claim - - Wendy Connors [10]
   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hatch - Larry Hatch [18]

  May 3:

   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Miller - Stuart Miller [17]
   Rense Show Tonight - Sonora California Family - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   Research [25]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Gates - Robert Gates [11]
   Sightings & Experiences In British Columbia - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   Research [92]
   UFO Over Capilla del Monte Argentina - Scott Corrales [31]
   Chupacabras In Providencia Chile - Scott Corrales [21]

  May 4:

   "UFO Planet" - Ray Stanford [20]
   Greer Dreary Non-News - Larry W. Bryant [48]
   Cambridge Ontario - 05-01-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [53]
   Hall Progress Report - Richard Hall [16]
   Re: Filers Files #19 - 2004 - Oberg - James Oberg [24]
   Re: Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist - Bruce Maccabee [75]
   Re: Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe - - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Greer Dreary Non-News - Nelson - Barry Nelson [29]
   UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - UFO UpDates - Toronto [123]
   Project Bluebook Microfilm Question - William Wise [12]
   Re: Project Bluebook Microfilm Question - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [12]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 18 - John Hayes [921]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Warren - Frank Warren [79]
   Re: Greer Dreary Non-News - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [14]
   Australian National UFO Conference 2004 Update - Diane Harrison [30]

  May 5:

   Saucerless Humanoids Revisionist Thoughts - Terry W. Colvin [474]
   Little Men Frogmen & UFO Prehistory - Terry W. Colvin [179]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Photo Strobing Night Object - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research [92]
   UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Stanton Friedman [23]
   Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Shell - Tim Shell [3]
   UFO Hall Of Fame - Royce J. Myers III [19]
   Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [31]
   UFO Mission Accomplished: Earthlings Get Bush - Frank Warren [39]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - - Ray Stanford [18]

  May 6:

   Filers Files #20 - 2004 - George A. Filer [546]
   Secrecy News -- 05/05/04 - Steven Aftergood [155]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Warren - Frank Warren [57]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - - Ray Stanford [7]
   Re: Little Men Frogmen & UFO Prehistory - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson
   [18]
   Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [35]
   Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos
   [17]
   Valley Man Claims He Caught UFO On Tape! - Frank Warren [37]
   Mars And The Teachable Moment - UFO UpDates - Toronto [154]
   Article - UFOs And The Paranormal - Frank Warren [16]

  May 7:

   'The Other Folk': John A. Keel Jacques Vallee - Terry W. Colvin [468]
   Re: Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist - Robert Grass [13]
   Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence - UFO UpDates - Toronto [312]
   New On-Line UFO Magazine - Stuart Miller [5]
   Re: Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence - Stanford - Ray Stanford [43]
   Secrecy News -- 05/07/04 - Steven Aftergood [126]
   Did Viruses Precede Other Life? - Terry W. Colvin [99]
   Lewis On Mediaeval & Renaissance Fairies Or - Terry W. Colvin [468]
   Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Hebert - Amy Hebert [6]
   Full Report & Police Tapes On New Ohio UFO Incident - Kenny Young [13]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Mystery Sighting Has Neil Baffled - UFO UpDates - Toronto [49]
   Unidentified Flying Planet? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [44]
   Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [7]
   Re: New On-Line UFO Magazine - Hale - Roy Hale [3]

  May 8:

   Dayton Daily News On Centerville Story - Kenny Young [56]
   Investigator Response To Dayton Daily News Article - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [50]
   Did You Witness 1949 Norwood UFO? - Kenny Young [42]
   UFOs Set To Swarm McMinnville - UFO UpDates - Toronto [27]
   Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [33]
   Re: Did You Witness 1949 Norwood UFO? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [42]

  May 9:

   Paradigm Research Group Press Release 05-09-04 - Stephen Bassett [82]
   Two Short HBCC UFO Reports - 05-08-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research
   [52]
   On-Line E-Mail FOIA Tool - John Greenewald, Jr. [79]
   'Otherfolk' Encounters - Terry W. Colvin [244]
   'British UFO Hunters ' - Chris Parr [22]
   Re: The Black Vault Television Series Begins - Greg Boone [13]

  May 10:

   Delusional Parasitosis A Medical Mystery - Frank Warren [279]

  May 11:

   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Warren - Frank Warren [82]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - - Sue Strickland [54]
   Texas Man Claims He Caught UFO On Tape - UFO UpDates - Toronto [40]
   Life Finder - UFO UpDates - Toronto [153]
   UFO Over Scotish Town In Morning Rush Hour - UFO UpDates - Toronto [49]
   UFO & Abduction - Are We An Alien Experiment? - Frank Warren [120]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 19 - John Hayes [613]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Adams - Brian Adams [5]
   11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video - Scott Corrales [40]
   Big Brouhaha Over Alleged UFO Footage - Terry Groff [25]
   Mexican Military Acknowledges UFOs In Mexico - Santiago Yturria [223]
   Re: UFO & Abduction - Are We An Alien Experiment? - Tim Shell [11]
   The March Mexico UFOs Footage - UFO UpDates - Toronto [3]

  May 12:

   Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir - UFO UpDates - Toronto [36]
   X-PPAC Congressional Alert - 05-12-04 - Stephen Bassett [77]
   FOIA Appeal Letter To NARA For Canberra Report - Larry W. Bryant [102]
   Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video - - Bruce Maccabee [59]
   Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Groff - Terry Groff [8]
   Lang Lake Near Sudbury Ontario - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research [49]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - - Sue Strickland [38]
   Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - UFO UpDates - Toronto [36]
   Re: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir - - Alfred Lehmberg [29]
   Mexico UFO Video - Chris Rutkowski [18]
   Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs - Hannes la Rue [11]
   Mexico's Department Of Defense Releases UFO - Michael E. Salla [121]
   Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [28]
   Re: Mexico UFO Video - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [10]
   The March 2004 Mexican UFO Video - Sander Borghuis [19]
   Was Chicken Little Right? - Terry W. Colvin [24]
   Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Adams - Brian Adams [8]
   Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Adams - Brian Adams [7]
   PRG Media Annoucement - 05-12-04 - Stephen Bassett [30]
   Seeking Investigator In Sheridan California - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   Research [31]
   Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video - - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Mexico UFO Video - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [41]
   Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Davenport - Peter Davenport -
   National UFO Reporting Center [25]
   Re: Mexico UFO Video - Woods - Mike Woods [11]
   Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Warren - Frank Warren [18]
   Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs - - Bruce Maccabee
   [13]
   Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video - - Terry Groff [3]
   Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Yturria - Santiago Yturria [3]
   Mexico UFO Footage Background Information - Santiago Yturria [48]
   Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Elnadi - Mo Elnadi [14]
   Same Distance Between Formations On Mexico Video? - Daniel Guenther
   [20]
   Mexican UFO Footage On UK TV - Max Burns [6]
   Filers Files #21 - 2004 - George A. Filer [541]
   Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information - - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [12]
   Secrecy News -- 05/12/04 - Steven Aftergood [132]
   Similar Case To Mexican Sighting On NUFORC Site - Peter Davenport -
   National UFO Reporting Center [39]
   News 'Coverage' In Seattle - Peter Davenport - National UFO Reporting
   Center [7]
   Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs - - John Velez [18]
   Mexico UFO On CNN - Santiago Yturria [8]

  May 13:

   Mexico UFO On CNN - Harrison - Diane Harrison [27]
   Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video - - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Re: The March 2004 Mexican UFO Video - Rue - Hannes la Rue [8]
   No Conclusions By Mexican Military - UFO UpDates - Toronto [48]
   Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir - Greg Boone [26]
   Re: News 'Coverage' In Seattle - Woods - Mike Woods [20]
   UFO Sightings: Real or B-Movie Fare? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [57]
   Re: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir - Boone - Greg Boone [31]
   Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Greg Boone [38]
   Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs - - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Dr. Greer Getting Desperate? - Trevor Page [7]
   Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Terry Groff [18]
   VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [21]
   Re: Mexican Military Acknowledges UFOs In Mexico - - Larry Hatch [19]
   Mexican Sec Def Forbade Talk Of UFOs Or Flying - Scott Corrales [38]
   Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons" - Scott Corrales [25]
   UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Larry Hatch [13]
   Re: Mexico UFO On CNN - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [39]
   Why Mexican Scientists Did Not Get UFO Evidenece - Scott Corrales [65]
   Unseen UFOs Photographed In Spain During Easter - Scott Corrales [39]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [4]

  May 14:

   Re: VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage - - Scott Caput [6]
   Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [5]
   Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Boone - Greg Boone [17]
   Re: Mexico UFO On CNN - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [9]
   Wilbert B. Smith & Canada's Search For Flying - Wendy Connors [20]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [87]
   A Traumatic Event - Abduction? - Brian Vike - HBCC [41]
   Re: Dr. Greer Getting Desperate? - Connors - Wendy Connors [10]
   Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather - Terry Groff [12]
   Sites With Mexico UFO Footage - Stuart Miller [3]
   UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico - Frank Warren [132]
   Re: VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage - - Geoffrey Richardson
   [7]
   The British UFO Files - Nick Pope [11]
   Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs - - Larry Hatch [30]
   Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs - - John Velez [31]
   Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Rudiak - David Rudiak [11]
   The Black Vault Television Download Available - John Greenewald, Jr.
   [27]
   Interview With Vatican Astronomer - Kelly Peterborough [394]
   Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Hayes - John Hayes [41]
   Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather - Jiri Mruzek [11]
   Ode to the Mexican UFOs - Stuart Miller [32]
   Mexico UFO Not Just By Chance? - Joachim Koch [74]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [13]
   Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely Alien - Terry Groff [59]
   Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Jim Speiser [6]
   Re: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir - Greg Boone [16]
   Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Santiago Yturria [62]
   German Press Release On Mexico UFO - Hannes la Rue [32]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Grass - Robert Grass [4]
   Mexican Scientists Dismiss UFOs As Meteor Fragments - Scott Corrales
   [75]
   Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists - Scott Corrales
   [72]
   Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista
   UFO [89]
   Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Hall - Richard Hall [12]
   Re: Mexico UFO On CNN - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [60]
   Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather - Ray Stanford [31]
   A Second UFO video - This Time From Romania - Chris Rutkowski [8]
   Re: Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely - Greg Boone
   <Evolbaby@aol.com [16]
   Re: Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely - Tim Shell [4]
   Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico - - Ray Stanford [29]
   Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs - - John Velez [36]
   Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information - - John Velez [20]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Groff - Terry Groff [11]
   Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather - Bruce Maccabee [10]
   Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Elnadi - Mo Elnadi [81]
   Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs - - Bruce Maccabee
   [23]
   Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [5]
   Re: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military - - Greg Boone [9]
   Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico - - Stuart Miller [13]
   Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico - - Tim Shell [4]
   Re: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - Bruce Maccabee [11]
   Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico - - Steven Kaeser [19]
   Re: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military - - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [5]
   Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information - - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [8]
   Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Boone - Greg Boone [11]
   Mexican UFO Incident Is All Velez's Fault - Greg Boone [19]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Clark - Jerome Clark [6]
   Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Hall - Richard Hall [14]
   Jamie Mausson On Strange Days... Indeed Tomorrow - Strange Days...
   Indeed [25]

  May 15:

   Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather - Terry Groff [13]
   Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Hebert - Amy Hebert [33]
   Mexico UFO Case Statement - Santiago Yturria [67]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Hall - Richard Hall [5]
   Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1 - John Velez [95]
   Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Hatch - Larry Hatch [26]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [31]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [17]
   Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico - - Jim Speiser [6]
   Re: Jorge Martin Contact? - Hale - Roy Hale [8]
   New Baghdad UFOs Multiple Witnesses & Footage - Greg Boone [14]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Grass - Robert Grass [30]
   Re: Mexico UFO Case Statement - Hatch - Larry Hatch [6]
   Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [9]
   Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - - Kelly Peterborough [29]
   Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - Ray Stanford [12]

  May 16:

   Re: Mexican UFO Incident Is All Velez's Fault - - John Velez [30]
   New Photos Of An Alleged Alien - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [26]
   Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - Gildas Bourdais [13]
   Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - Brock - Rod Brock [28]
   Mexico The Real Issue - Santiago Yturria [42]
   "Sizeable Minority" Believe In UFOs, ET Landings - Rod Brock [42]
   Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Terry Blanton [27]
   Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir - Terry Groff [33]
   Re: Jorge Martin Contact? - Rosales - Albert Rosales [3]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Clark - Jerome Clark [41]
   Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [114]
   Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1 - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico - - Ray Stanford [25]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - - Bruce Maccabee [11]
   Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico - - Ray Stanford [53]
   Re: Mexico UFO Case Statement - Yturria - Santiago Yturria [6]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Boone - Greg Boone [37]
   Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1 - Larry Hatch [41]
   Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - Diana Cammack [16]
   Egyptian UFO Sightings - Mo Elnadi [18]
   Big Lake Mystery - Loren Coleman [189]
   Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [30]
   Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions - Larry Hatch [21]
   Mexico UFO Map Updated - Larry Hatch [19]
   What Happened To Abductee Home Detector Experiment? - Eleanor White [4]
   Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Rue - Hannes la Rue [18]
   Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Hall - Richard Hall [6]
   Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1 - John Velez [51]
   Re: New Photos Of An Alleged Alien - Myers - Royce J. Myers III [7]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Velez - John Velez [38]
   Re: Kudos To Dave Furlotte - Velez - John Velez [25]
   TV UFO Mexico On The Web Tonight - Tomek Wierszalowicz [6]
   Length Of Mexican UFO Sighting? - Carl Feindt [6]
   Re: Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir - Myers - Royce J. Myers III
   [16]
   Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility - Stuart Miller [50]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Denzler - Brenda Denzler
   [23]
   Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists - GT McCoy [22]
   Poggio's Facetiae - Terry W. Colvin [130]
   Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Booth - BJ Booth [18]
   Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - - Bruce Maccabee [1]

  May 17:

   Launch of US Geospatial Intelligence Foundation - Terry W. Colvin [71]
   Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1 - Bruce Maccabee [26]
   UFOs Over Iran 2004 - Mo Elnadi [6]
   Re: New Photos Of An Alleged Alien - Shell - Tim Shell [5]
   PRG Update - 05-17-04 - Stephen Bassett [113]
   Re: Length Of Mexican UFO Sighting? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   UFOs Communicate With Flashes Of Light? - Barry Taylor [33]
   Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [58]
   Spain: Langreo Sighting Confirms Mexican UFOs? - Scott Corrales [77]
   Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility - Larry Hatch [12]
   Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1 - Vicente-Juan
   Ballester Olmos [10]

  May 18:

   It Just Remains We Hope We Can - Alfred Lehmberg [106]
   UFO & Possible Abduction Report 1 - Frank Warren [148]
   Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Stanford - Ray Stanford [22]
   Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility - Jim Speiser [14]
   Student Uncovers US Military Secrets - Nick Balaskas [13]
   Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [26]
   Re: UFOs Over Iran 2004 - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Santiago Yturria [150]
   Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [17]
   Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1 - John Velez [25]
   Marsapalooza Tour Begins - Mac Tonnies [6]
   Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II - John Velez [97]
   Re: Unpublished Interviews With Kenneth Arnold - - Larry Hatch [20]
   Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Rue - Hannes la Rue [13]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Westra - Frits Westra [7]
   Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Rue - Hannes la Rue [11]
   Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Warren - Frank Warren [23]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [79]

  May 19:

   Scarborough Ontario 05-15-04 - Brian Vike HBCC UFO [96]
   Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1 - Vicente-Juan
   Ballester Olmos [14]
   Secrecy News -- 05/18/04 - Steven Aftergood [144]
   UFO History Has Come Full Circle - Larry W. Bryant [109]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 20 - John Hayes [422]
   Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - - John Velez [116]
   Check The UFO UpDates Archive! - John Velez [27]
   Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04 - Santiago Yturria [67]
   Ottawa Ontario 05-17-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [48]
   Gers France 1973/74 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [88]
   Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Hall - Richard Hall [4]
   Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Hall - Richard Hall [2]
   Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component - - Rod Brock [16]
   North Vancouver - 05-16-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [52]
   Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer - Frank Warren [75]
   UFOs Modernity & The Laboratory World - Terry W. Colvin [228]
   Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - Bruce Maccabee [6]

  May 20:

   Mexico's FLIR Rep On AF UFO Case - Santiago Yturria [59]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - - Bruce Maccabee [18]
   New UFO sightings in Cabo Rojo Puerto Rico - Scott Corrales [37]
   UFOs In Havana - Scott Corrales [57]
   Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - Gildas Bourdais [12]
   Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer - Alfred Lehmberg
   [24]
   Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1 - John Velez [15]
   Re: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04 - John Velez [22]
   Filers Files #22 - 2004 - George A. Filer [585]
   Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004 - Nick Pope [41]
   Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [5]
   Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer - Stanton Friedman
   [6]
   Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer - GT McCoy [26]
   Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part III - John Velez [91]
   Re: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets - Rudiak - David Rudiak [50]
   Re: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04 - - David Rudiak [12]
   Re: Check The UFO UpDates Archive! - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [10]
   Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility - Nick Balaskas [12]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Taylor - Barry Taylor [19]
   Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Diana Cammack [7]
   Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Gildas Bourdais
   [8]
   Anyone Been Asked By Media To Comment On Mexican - Greg Boone [12]
   Re: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004 - Jones - Sean Jones [8]
   Those Men In Black A Review Of 'High Strangeness' - Alfred Lehmberg
   [220]
   Secrecy News -- 05/20/04 - Steven Aftergood [126]

  May 21:

   Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Gildas Bourdais
   [8]
   Re: Gers France 1973/74 - Hatch - Larry Hatch [22]
   Re: Check The UFO UpDates Archive! - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [34]
   Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Hall - Richard Hall [11]
   Nice Job UFO Magazine! - Greg Boone [8]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Velez - John Velez [56]
   Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer - Stephen Bassett [3]
   Re: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [16]
   Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer - Tim SHell [18]
   Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - John Velez [16]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Velez - John Velez [17]
   Re: Anyone Been Asked By Media To Comment On - Stanton Friedman [7]
   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - - Scott Corrales
   [32]
   Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer - Royce J. Myers III
   [44]
   Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer - Royce J. Myers III
   [8]
   Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility - Ray Stanford [55]
   UFO Over Ubate Colombia - Scott Corrales [52]
   Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - John Velez [30]
   Ohsweken Ontario 05-19-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [35]
   Provo Canyon Utah UFO Picture - UFO UpDates - Toronto [48]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [5]
   Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility - Jim Speiser [7]
   Re: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04 - Santiago Yturria [12]
   Re: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004 - Parr - Chris Parr [4]
   Re: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004 - Pope - Nick Pope [8]
   Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Scott Corrales [62]
   Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer - Bill Hamilton [8]
   Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Myers - Royce J. Myers
   III [23]
   Re: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004 - Hale - Roy Hale [9]
   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - - Ray Dickenson [17]
   SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Scott Corrales [91]
   Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Allan - Christopher Allan [14]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - - Bruce Maccabee [48]
   St-Philippe Quebec - 05-03-04 - Brian Vike HBCC UFO [46]
   Ray Bradbury's Mars Testimony - Terry W. Colvin [25]
   Re: Ohsweken Ontario 05-19-04 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [14]
   Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Velez - John Velez [29]

  May 22:

   Second Rock From The Sun Discovered! - Nick Balaskas [33]
   Victoria BC & Ottawa ON 05-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [128]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Speiser - Jim Speiser [20]
   Niagara Falls Ontario UFO Photo? - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [16]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 20 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [31]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Booth - Billy Booth [49]
   Mexican Lights Related To Phoenix Lights? - Barry Taylor [21]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Taylor - Barry Taylor [9]
   Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Barry Taylor [7]
   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - - Larry Hatch [8]
   Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Myers - Royce J. Myers
   III [107]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Hatch - Larry Hatch [25]
   Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Rue - Hannes la Rue [22]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Hall - Richard Hall [31]
   PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Stephen Bassett [73]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Ledger - Don Ledger [8]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Velez - John Velez [28]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Velez - John Velez [7]
   Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [14]

  May 23:

   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Speiser - Jim Speiser [19]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Speiser - Jim Speiser [14]
   Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators - Terry W. Colvin [26]
   Lyons Bald Mountain Sonora California - 05-22-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC
   UFO [27]
   Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand? - Greg Boone [24]
   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - - Ray Dickenson [26]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Booth - Bruce Maccabee [8]
   Re: Mexican Lights Related To Phoenix Lights? - - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [48]
   Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [58]
   Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators - GT McCoy [8]
   Re: Have A Look: The Future Of Near-Space Flight? - Ray Stanford [14]
   Re: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators - - Harry Giarratana [44]
   Re: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators - - Harry Giarratana [6]
   Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Roy Hale [6]

  May 24:

   Magonia Supplement 50 - John Rimmer [24]
   Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Chapman - Mary Chapman [10]
   Re: Niagara Falls Ontario UFO Photo? - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [60]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [11]
   05-19-04 BC Case Becomes Bigger - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [20]
   Summer '03 Winnipeg Manitoba - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [32]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Taylor - Barry Taylor [31]
   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - - Stuart Miller [15]
   Link To NTSB Report On Night Ship 282 - Harry Giarratana [5]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [13]
   Project UFO The Old TV Show - Greg Boone Evolbaby@aol.com [10]
   MERLIN C-26 Metroliner Military Aircraft - GT McCoy [7]
   Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Hale - Roy Hale [5]
   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - - Ray Dickenson [26]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Groff - Terry Groff [14]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais
   [29]
   Re: Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand? - - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Re: Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand? - - Greg Boone [8]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Boone - Greg Boone [42]
   Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Boone - Greg Boone [23]
   Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Conte - Carrie Conte [10]
   Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [4]
   The Venus Transit - Two Weeks to Go! - Terry W. Colvin [22]
   The 'Twins' Giant UFOs? - John Velez [60]
   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - Stuart Miller [38]
   Re: 05-19-04 BC Case Becomes Bigger - Stanford - Ray Stanford [70]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Rimmer - John Rimmer [5]

  May 25:

   Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Colin Stevenson [71]
   Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Page - Trevor Page [5]
   Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Straight - Brian Straight [5]
   'UFO' Mystery Solved - Frank Warren [49]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Warren - Frank Warren [27]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 21 - John Hayes [698]
   Restore John Ford! - Alfred Lehmberg [13]
   Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming - Paul Anderson [70]
   Chulucanas Peru UFO-Trip Report - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [19]
   Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [13]

  May 26:

   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - - Ray Dickenson [43]
   Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Cammack - Diana Cammack [4]
   FYI The Mexico Case - John Velez [66]
   Area 51 Hackers Dig Up Trouble - UFO UpDates - Toronto [159]
   Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality - Disclosure
   Project Truth Campaign [123]
   Big UFO Disclosures Due Soon By Foreign Powers? - Greg Boone [26]
   Alleged Non-Human Caught Digital Camera In Chile - Scott Corrales [38]
   Proposal For The UFO Research Coalition - John Velez [28]
   Scientist Seeks Alien Cloud-Dwelling Bug - Frank Warren [50]
   Stellar Blast Draws Meteor Hunters - Frank Warren [75]
   Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Stanford - Ray Stanford [33]
   More Snobbish UFO Press Stuff - Greg Boone [16]
   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - - Don Ledger [25]
   Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Ledger - Don Ledger [7]
   Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Ledger - Don Ledger [2]
   Secrecy News -- 05/26/04 - Steven Aftergood [163]
   Translation Of Portions Of FLIR Audio Recording - John Velez [64]
   Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Yturria - Santiago Yturria
   [14]
   Re: Alleged Non-Human Caught On Digital Camera In - tshell@vcmails.com
   [7]
   Re: Proposal For The UFO Research Coalition - Hall - Richard Hall [22]
   Filers Files #23 - 2004 - George A. Filer [561]

  May 27:

   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Groff - Terry Groff [14]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [15]
   Re: Stellar Blast Draws Meteor Hunters - Stanford - Ray Stanford [61]
   Re: Big UFO Disclosures Due Soon By Foreign - Christopher Allan [9]
   Re: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming - - Nick Balaskas [40]
   Re: More Snobbish UFO Press Stuff - Myers - Royce J. Myers III [4]
   Re: The British UFO Files - Pope - Nick Pope [63]
   Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? - - Ray Dickenson [30]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [18]
   Parallel Double Meteor Trails - Terry W. Colvin [42]
   UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Capt. Alejandro Franz [152]
   Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Larry Hatch [22]
   Change The World? - Roy Hale [6]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Hale - Roy Hale [12]
   UFO Encounter In San Juan Bautista - Frank Warren [41]
   Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Cammack - Diana Cammack [11]
   Re: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming - - Ray Stanford [9]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [35]
   Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Ledger - Don Ledger [18]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [24]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [3]
   Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [4]

  May 28:

   Boldly Going Nowhere - UFO UpDates - Toronto [83]
   Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [16]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [18]
   Re: UFO Encounter In San Juan Bautista - Stanford - Ray Stanford [26]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Rimmer - John Rimmer [18]
   Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Colvin - Terry W. Colvin [25]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Franz - Capt. Alejandro Franz [9]
   Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Ledger - Don Ledger [6]
   Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [36]
   No More SEPRA In France CNES Official Confirms - Gregory Gutierez [38]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [86]
   Secrecy News -- 05/28/04 - Steven Aftergood [115]
   Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Cammack - Diana Cammack [17]
   Re: Alberta Investigator Need - Vike - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [26]
   Re: No More SEPRA In France CNES Official Confirms - Gildas Bourdais
   [30]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Rudiak - David Rudiak [29]

  May 29:

   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Hall - Richard Hall [14]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [17]
   Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [15]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Rimmer - John Rimmer [28]
   Trail British Colimbia 05-20-04 - Brian Vike [44]
   3 Needed To Help In 32-Year-Old UFO Mystery - Walt Williams [52]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Taylor - Barry Taylor [41]
   Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Mac Tonnies [49]
   P-47: Intelligence or R&D? - Brad Sparks [97]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [7]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Shell - Tim Shell [22]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [29]
   Transit Of Venus - Terry W. Colvin [73]
   UFO Maneuvers Close To Jet Airliner - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [32]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [13]

  May 30:

   Really Hard Up Debunker Explanations For Mexican - Greg Boone [45]
   Planetary Patriotism Gets Formal Boost - Larry W. Bryant [76]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Booth - Billy Booth [12]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [71]
   Impacts And Human Evolution - Terry W. Colvin [65]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Bilodeau - Michael Bilodeau [42]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Boone - Greg Boone [13]
   Mexican University Bulletin On Campeche Lights - Scott Corrales [130]
   Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio - John Velez [323]
   Re: Really Hard Up Debunker Explanations For - John Velez [16]
   Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [7]
   Re: Mexican University Bulletin On Campeche Lights - Stanton Friedman
   [10]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Shell - Tim Shell [6]
   Things To Look Forward To - Loren Coleman [18]
   Talk Sport UFO Show UK - Nick Pope [15]
   Re: Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio - - Santiago Yturria
   [45]

  May 31:

   Scientists Challenge Mexico's Meteorological - Santiago Yturria [45]
   MUFON Canadian Symposium Website - Eugene H. Frison [8]
   Re: Impacts And Human Evolution - Stanford - Ray Stanford [61]
   Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - Barry Taylor [33]





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

               Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:16:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 08:29:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Stanford


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:51:03 -0700
>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:36:12 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

<snip>

>>Hogwash! Or, in other words, Pravda (also Richard Lazarus) is
>>shoveling out figurative bovine excrement. Let me comment upon
>>this particular example of myth-making:

>>The plasma generated by the hypersonic passage of cosmic bodies
>>(that become meteorites upon striking the ground) through the
>>very upper reaches of earth's atmosphere is dissipated (unless
>>they are of extremely large and rare size) upon retardation from
>>cosmic (orbital) velocity and ceases to further be generated,
>>usually at above twenty miles altitude.

>>The Tunguska cosmic body (interpreted by most who have studied
>>the evidence as having been a small comet) did not hit the
>>earth's surface at all, contrary to the statement, above. It
>>exploded far above the earth with energy that was detected
>>around the world. Its hypersonic shock wave was what did the
>>damage on the ground. The reports by some that it varied its
>>trajectory are easily explained by pressure-induced side
>>explosions (some due to out-gassing of, perhaps, cometary water
>>or even solids), sometimes seen and even photographically
>>recorded in even much less energetic meteoritic events.

>Additional theories and data:

>The precise cause of the Tunguska event remains unknown. In
>scientific circles, the leading explanation for the blast is the
>impact of a meteorite. A related suggestion is that a meteorite
>exploded just above the Earth's surface. Whether the meteorite
>was of cometary or asteroidal origin is still a matter of
>controversy. Whatever the original cause of the event is, much
>of the data supports that the cause resembled a nuclear
>explosion.

<snip>

>The comet idea remained popular for over 50 years, with some
>astronomers speculating that it might have been a piece of the
>short-period Comet Encke. Materials from Encke appear to make up
>the stream of space debris that create the Beta Perseid meteor
>shower, and the Tunguska event coincided with a peak in that
>shower.

>In 1983, an astronomer named Zdenek Sekanina, working the NASA
>Jet Propulsion Laboratory, published a paper that undermined the
>comet theory. Sekanina pointed out that eyewitness accounts and
>other evidence point only to one explosion, and that the object
>passed through the atmosphere at a shallow angle, remaining
>intact to an altitude of 8.5 kilometers. A body composed of ice
>and gases could not have travelled such a distance without
>disintegrating. Proponents of the comet theory have suggested,
>in reply, that the object might have been an extinct comet with
>a stony mantle that allowed it to penetrate the atmosphere.

>Based on this data from Wikipedia, Ray, it seems like the comet
>theory is also in question, though, I must admit that you have
>come up with a logical deduction on why it was changing course
>due to outgassing, but then if it were a normal comet of ice and
>gases, it most likely would have disintegrated as it is
>conjectured mini comets disintegrate into water vapor as they
>strike the upper layers of atmosphere.

Hi Bill, et al.,

Sekanina made a good point, but to counter it , one might point
out that the careful telescopic observations of Jupiter during
its barrage by multiple pieces of comet Shoemaker-Levy, showed
no sign of early atmospheric-encounter disintegration of the
cometary masses, even in Jupiter's plasma atmosphere. Perhaps
they were the solid parts of the comet after they broke apart
after being held together by more a more friable or volatile
'matrix'.

I think the dust (which you mention) in the Tunguska event
suggests, most likely, a comet or else maybe one of the more
highly friable types of stony meteorite. I have of course read
The Fire Came By (with its rather sensational interpretation),
but have also read all the available and more objective
scientific literature in the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center's
Library. One book, translated from the Russian, shows
interesting cosmic-body debris (cometary or meteoritic, and
definitely not technological) collected at Tunguska, and I have
kept up with the latest expeditions there via Meteoritics and
Planetary Science and several other scientific journals.
Whatever its nature, everything seems to point to a natural,
non-technological event. The atmospheric dust clearly rules out
the idea of a small black hole being involved (as do numerous
other factors), and there is absolutely none of the kind of
isotopic evidence one should expect from a thermonuclear event.

I might also point out that several meteorites have been shown
to contain extraterrestrial water, which might have been
involved in events causing the main mass to seemingly or
reportedly veer off its initial course, as discussed in my
earlier posting on this, even if the Tunguska object were merely
a stony meteoroid and not a comet. I have seen a drop water of
demonstrably extraterrestrial origin extracted from one
achondritic meteorite.

It's nice to see, Bill, that you haven't retired from this list
as yet.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                    Three Canadian UFO Reports April '04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:02:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 08:32:16 -0400
Subject: Three Canadian UFO Reports April '04



English Bay, Vancouver, British Columbia

Date: April 28, 2004
Time: Approx: 10:45 p.m.

Gathering a report in real time.

A call came in from two witnesses who were sitting in their car
at English Bay, British Columbia. They reported that they were
watching three unusual objects and giving me the description
over the phone as they observed them.

The witness said she was watching the objects through her
binoculars and said the one object was huge and the other two a
lot smaller. The large object was circular in shape, bright
white and filled with what she described as darker dots. In the
center of the object there was nothing, or one would be able to
see through it. The object was also rotating and had two smaller
objects flying around it. One of the crafts was reported to be
triangular in shape and the other again more circular. The
triangular craft would move a distance away from the larger
object, makes sudden turns and at times they were able to
observe the full triangular structure and at other times see if
being flat. The smaller circular object would travel around the
triangle shaped object and also move around the circumference of
the larger object.

The witnesses were facing west when observing the three objects
and added that whatever these things were .. they seemed to be
at a good distance from them. The skies were completely clear.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

The sighting is under investigation.

--------

Smithers, British Columbia

Date: April 16, 2004
Time: 10:30 - 10:45 p.m.

A witness came forward and called me from Smithers, B.C. after
she read a short article in the Smithers Interior Newspaper
about a sighting of a pink object which was witnessed by another
lady over the Smithers Ski Hill road on April 8, 2004.

The witness was on her way to work as she works the graveyard
shift. As she traveled around a corner on Harris Road by Harris
Auto Wrecking she saw a extremely large bright pink object low
in the sky. The lady said she had never seen anything like it in
all the years she lived in the area and also wondered if it
might have been an airplane coming in for a landing at the
Smithers airport. She told me the object had to have been the
size of a full moon and on the outer edge of the object the
color was a much lighter pink in color.

As the woman drove along she said it passed overhead at approx:
tree top level and at approx: 100 to 200 feet away from her in
distance. As the lady and the object passed one another she
slowed her truck down and turned around to watch the object move
slowly into the distance and as she watched it finally just
blinked out. When the woman continued on her journey, after
seeing the strange object, she told me that she was questioning
herself, "did I just see that"!

Later that evening and at her work place, her and another lady
went outside for a coffee break and the witness mentioned that
she had seen something very strange when she was on her way to
work.

I asked the lady if she thought it might have been a flare or
even fireworks someone had maybe set off. The witness said she
has never seen a flare or fireworks travel horizontally just
over tree top level and for such a long distance. There was no
sound noted. The object was reported to be visible for approx:
one minute.

This same object has been seen twice on two different occasions
in the Smithers area.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

The sighting is under investigation.

----------------

Action, Ontario

Date: April 24, 2004
Time: 8:30 p.m.

A witness called to file a report on what he and his wife saw
back on April 24, 2004 at 8:30 p.m. The witnesses also said they
took photos of what was witnessed which was numerous lights
flying around the sky in an unusual formation.. The gentleman's
wife was the first to spot the strange lights from an upstairs
window. The lady called to her husband and when he got to the
window she asked, "what is that"? The husband first thought it
was an airplane a fair distance away from them but moving closer
towards their direction.

What started the couple thinking, was that whatever it was,
 moved along the horizon and eventfully passed from their line
of sight due to a large pine tree which got in the way. Shortly
after they lost sight of it, it came back into their view and
again sat stationary. Six to seven minutes later the object
still remaining stationary the two witnesses noticed two more
smaller lights which appeared on either side of the larger light
which they had already been observing. Seeing this was turning
out to be really unusual the couple jumped into their car to see
if they might be able to get a better look at the objects. They
eventually reached a good location as to where they could watch
the lights. They had pulled off the highway beside a farmers
field and this is when they started taking the photos of the
objects. The fellow told me at this point he is a bit of a
skeptic when it comes to these matters, but after watching the
strange lights in the sky he is re-thinking the whole topic on
UFOs.

Still observing the three lights, one of the smaller objects
shot off away from the larger object at a incredible rate of
speed. While still watching, another light which was sitting
stationary, started to flicker out. Then all of a sudden in
about 2 seconds it was in another location of the sky hovering.
Another light appeared, taking the place of the light that just
had flickered out. In total there were 5 to 6 lights sitting in
the sky at one time.

The fellow said it certainly was a formation of lights, one
large one and all the rest were smaller in size. The large light
was extremely bright and the other smaller ones were a lot
dimmer.

The couple were certainly baffled over what they were seeing.

Thank you to the witnesses for the report.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research

Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

             Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:29:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 08:37:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:13:32 -0700
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:05:31 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:53:49 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>>>Source: Phenomena Magazine

>>http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Area+51&act
ion=page&obj_id=927

>>>>Dateline: Tuesday, April 27, 2004

>>>>The X-Conference
>>>>Not Lights in the Sky, but Lies on the Ground

>>>>By: Richard M. Dolan
>>>>Senior Editor
>>>>Phenomena Magazine

<snip>

>Roswell mystery solved: It was a time machine built and launched
>by Phil Corso Jr. This is a cogent reason among others to
>reaffirm my plans to retire from this field.

Great suffering and _most_ baragrugous ZOT! I understand a lot
of people were clustered around him at the conference, too...
was it Mr. Viggiani said that last SDI...? Anyway, it is an
unfortunate illustration of how hungry people are becoming for
the weirdness that they feel actual reality must be, and the
void created by their society's inability to deal with that
reality is filled by the weirdest damn thing that comes along.
It's not the people's fault. Things likely _are_ pretty weird.
It remains how a Corso Jr. gets stage time and attention for
what seems pretty self-aggrandizing on the face of it... I mean,
people want weird (?) I can read my Vogon poetry to them at
these conferences!

Is it his Dad's coat-tails, and some of the jury is still out on
his Dad?

And, Mr. Hamilton, I fear you were mocking my writing style a
smidgen. I won't apologize for it, Sir, the words, as they are,
are in me. And you're not going into retirement, you embark on
respite, you go into repose; you don't ignore this stuff...

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                   Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:38:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:06:34 -0400
Subject: Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe


FWD [forteana] Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe - A "Meta-Fortean"
Observation

T. Peter <tpeterpark.nul>

I believe there are two basic types of Forteans, espousing two
distinct basic types of Forteanism or paranormalism. They are
what I call fringe Forteans versus scientific Forteans.

Scientific Forteans believe that the generally accepted
mainstream scientific world-picture is mostly correct and
accurate. They would only like to add a few specific classes of
phenomena dismissed or ignored by most mainstream scientists. To
make it complete, they feel, the scientific world-picture simply
needs to take account of a few extra phenomena and the possibly
novel entities, creatures, forces, or natural laws required to
explain them. Fringe Forteans, on the other hand, believe that
the mainstream scientific world-picture (which I will call MSWP
for short from now on) is seriously flawed or fundamentally
incorrect.

Scientific Forteans see the anomalies they champion - ESP, PK,
ghosts, poltergeists, UFOs, abductions, crop circles, Hairy
Hominids like Bigfoot, Almas, and Yeti, Lake Monsters like
Nessie, Champ, and Ogopogo, sea serpents, merbeings,
chupacabras, etc. - as additions or extensions to a MSWP they
otherwise accept. Fringe Forteans, on the other hand, believe
that such anomalies imply a major basic revision or even
overturning of the MSWP. For scientific Forteans, the MSWP is
correct but incomplete, only needing the addition and
incorporation of a few extra elements that the "Establishment"
has too hastily and dogmatically dismissed or ignored. For
radical Forteans, on the other hand, the MSWP is fundamentally
false in basic, important ways, and needs more than just a few
minor "add-ons" here and there at its edges. Fringe Forteans
demand major revisions or outright rejections of MSWP views of
the Universe, the Earth's structure, the origin and history of
life, human origins, or ancient history: hollow-earth and
"ancient astronaut" theories, "Scientific Creationism," other-
dimensional or demonological theories of UFO aliens,
cataclysmically destroyed prehistoric civilizations, etc. -
 theories rejected just as much by scientific Forteans as by
"Establishment" MSWP spokespersons.

Scientific Forteans include parapsychologists focusing on ESP,
ghosts, and PK, "nuts and bolts" UFO researchers committed to
the extraterrestrial visitor hypothesis, abduction researchers
committed to the alien/human genetic hybridization hypothesis,
and cryptozoologists who see Bigfoot, Yeti, Almas, chupacabras,
lake monsters, sea serpents, Africa's mokele-mbembe, "mystery
cats," etc., as "cryptid" flesh-and-blood animals of hitherto
unknown species. Such scientific parapsychologists, UFO'logists,
abductologists, and cryptozoologists feel that all would be well
if only the scientific "Establishment" admitted the reality of
certain "damned" and "excluded" phenomena, and stretched the
MSWP just a little bit at its edges to accommodate and explain
them.

Scientific parapsychologists, like the late J.B. Rhine and the
founders & most members of the (British) and American Societies
for Psychical Research, believe that the MSWP is basically
correct except for its gratuitous philosophical acceptance of
materialism and of a strictly sensationalist theory of
knowledge. If mainstream scientists only accepted the
possibility of non-material components, aspects, capacities, or
causal interactions of the human psyche, including perhaps the
possibility of life after death, they feel, all would be well
otherwise. All that would need to be changed, they feel, is the
Enlightenment materialist and sensationalist view that mind,
thought, and consciousness are simply a by-product or
epiphenomenon of the structure and functioning of certain very
complex physical systems with no possible existence apart from
those physical systems, that all knowledge comes through
physical objects or stimuli affecting the sense organs which
then send electrical or chemical impulses to the brain, and that
the mind/brain can only act on the physical world through motor
nerves making our muscles contract to move objects outside our
bodies. However, Rhine/SPR/ASPR type parapsychologists do not
question MSWP views of cosmogony, the Solar System, the Earth,
evolution, or human origins and prehistory. They do not try to
tie in ESP and PK with hollow-earth, ancient-astronauts, "Space
Brothers," or lost-continents speculations, nor with Scientific
Creationism.

The "Nuts-and-bolts" extraterrestrialist UFO'logists (Stanton
Friedman, Bruce Maccabee, the late Donald E. Keyhoe) and
hybridization-oriented abductologists (Budd Hopkins, David M.
Jacobs) accept the SETI theories and speculations of mainstream
scientists like Frank Drake and Carl Sagan about intelligent
life and advanced civilizations elsewhere in the Galaxy. They
simply add that the extraterrestrials in fact are already here,
studying us and perhaps trying to interbreed with us or steal
our genetic material. Mainstream scientists are wrong only in
dismissing the here-and-now presence of the extraterrestrials.
Cryptozoologists (Loren Coleman, Bernard Heuvelmans, Ivan T.
Sanderson, Mark A. Hall, Scott Corrales, Roy Mackal) accept the
bulk of mainstream orthodox biology, zoology, and evolutionary
theory. They merely add that Neandertals, 'Homo erectus',
'Gigantopithecus', dinosaurs, plesiosaurs, and zeuglodons
(serpent-like prehistoric whales) may in fact still be alive on
our planet in our own time as "cryptids" like Bigfoot, Yeti,
almas, orang pendek, Lake Monsters, Sea Serpents, and the
Brontosaurus-like West African mokele-mbembe. Loren Colema &
Patrick Huyghe's 'Field Guide to Bigfoot, Yeti, and Other
Mystery Primates Worldwide' (1999), Loren Coleman & Jerome
Clark's 'Cryptozoology A to Z' (1999), Loren Coleman's
'Bigfoot!' (2003), and Loren Coleman & Patrick Huyghe's 'Field
Guide to Lake Monsters, Sea Seerrpents, and Other Mystery
Denizens of the Deep' (2003) are four good solid recent examples
of this un-mystical feet-on-the-ground no-nonsense yet non-
debunking biologically-oriented cryptozoology, whose classic
statements are Bernard Heuvelmans' 'On the Track of Unknown
Animals' (1958, 1959, 1965, 1995), Willy Ley's 'Exotic Zoology'
(1959), and Roy Mackal's 'Searching for Hidden Animals' (1980).

Fringe Forteans champion a wide, wild variety of "far-out"
theories that in various ways drastically revise or totally
overturn accepted MSWP views of the Universe, our planet,
prehistory, or human origins. Many fringe Forteans advocate
occult, paraphysical, "ultraterrestrial," "daimonic," "Goblin
Universe," other-dimensional, or demonological theories of UFOs,
"aliens," and "cryptids." Other "far-out" theories espoused by
fringe Forteans include hollow-earth theories (John Cleves
Symmes Marshall Gardner, Cyrus Reed Teed, Raymond Bernard, W.G.
Emerson, John Uri Lloyd), underground civilizations
speculations, allegations that Admiral Byrd discovered a vast
warm, fertile "Land Beyond the Poles," "ancient astronaut"
theories of human prehistory and ancient history, Christian
fundamentalist "Scientific Creationism," and speculations about
advanced prehistoric civilizations destroyed by great
catastrophes like Atlantis and Lemuria. "New Age" enthusiasts of
a benignly "spiritual" interpretation of UFOs and abductions,
like Whitley Strieber, John Mack, and Kenneth Ring, also belong
in the radical Fortean camp, I feel.

"Daimonic Reality," "Goblin Universe," and demonological
theorists (e.g., John A. Keel, Janet & Colin Bord, Jacques
Vallee, Patrick Harpur, F.W. Holiday, Gordon Creighton, etc.)
argue that UFOs, their occupants, bedroom-invading "Grays," "Men
in Black," Bigfoot, Yeti, other "Hairy Hominids,." Lake
Monsters, "Mothmen," "Owlmen," "Black Dogs," gnomes, dwarfs,
fairies, and other assorted weird elusive mystery creatures are
all simply different guises adopted by "Elementals,"
"ultraterrestrials," other-dimensional visitors, "Devas,"
Christian demons, or Isl=E2mic djinn. Some of these "Goblin
Universe" theorists are Christian fundamentalists (Hal Lindsey,
John Weldon, Clifford Wilson, Zola Levitt, Ray Boeche, etc.)who
simply identify UFOs, "aliens," abductors, MIB, and other weird
mystery creatures with Satan and his demonic host. Others (like
Gordon Creighton, Patrick Harpur, etc.) prefer an identification
of such weird entities rather with the Isl=E2mic djinn, the
demonic beings of Hindu mythology, or the daimones and
elementals of ancient paganism and modern occultism. Keel and
Vallee, on the other hand, take a more secular, irreligious view
of the "ultraterrestrials" or "control system." They all take a
rather skeptical view, however, both of flesh-and-blood aliens
in nuts-and-bolts spaceships and of flesh-and-blood zoological
"cryptids" lurking in Pacific Northwest forests or Scottish
lakes. To such "Daimonic Reality," "Goblin Universe," and
"ultraterrestrial" theorists, I suspect we should also add "New
Age" UFO theorists like Whitley Strieber, John Mack, and Kenneth
Ring, who claim that the "Visitors" are here to uplift us to a
higher spiritual plane, and that the frightening, traumatic,
manipulative aspects of abductions are really a form of
spiritual "shock therapy" comparable to Zen koans, or to the
"Dark Night of the Soul" suffered by Catholic mystics as part of
their spiritual journey.

Hollow-earth theories, speculations about underground
civilizations, "ancient astronaut" theories of human origins,
"Scientific Creationism," and speculations about Atlantis and
Lemuria likewise radically question the MSWP and its views of
the Solar System, the Earth's structure, evolution, human
origins, and ancient history. Richard Shaver's stories of the
underground dero living in the cavern-cities of the Lemurians
and using abandoned Lemurian machinery to bedevil us combined
hollow-earth (or at least underground-civilization), ancient-
astronaut, and Atlantis/Lemuria themes while flouting the
accepted MSWP of human origins, prehistory, and early history.

Here, I think, we should make a distinction between "hard-core"
ancient astronaut theories, like those of Eric von D=E4niken,
Zecharia Sitchin, and the Ra=EBlian cultists, versus the more
modest speculations of writers like the late Carl Sagan about
extraterrestrials visiting the Earth from time to time in
prehistoric times. Von D=E4niken, Sitchin, other "ancient
astronaut" enthusiasts, and the Ra=EBlians claim that
extraterrestrials genetically engineered 'Homo sapiens', taught
our ancestors the rudiments of civilization, and built ancient
archaeological marvels like the Great Pyramid, the Sphinx,
Tiahuanaco, and the Nazca lines. Carl Sagan type writers,
however, take an orthodox MSWP view of human evolution and the
development of human civilization. They simply hold it possible
that extraterrestrials might have occasionally visited our
planet in the days of the dinosaurs or the "cave-men," without
doing the genetic-engineering, species-creating, and
civilization-building feats attributed to them by Von D=E4niken,
Sitchin, or the Ra=EBlians. At the very most, Sagan tentatively
speculated that amphibious ichthyoid extraterrestrials landing
in the Persian Gulf around 4,000 B.C. and giving a few tips on
agriculture and metallurgy to the Sumerians might perhaps have
possibly inspired the Babylonian myth of the fish-man Oannes
coming out of the sea and teaching Humankind the arts and
sciences. Aside from that, Sagan was just sort of willing to
consider extraterrestrials long ago photographing dinosaurs or
collecting trilobites. And, I also suppose, maybe, just maybe,
Sagan was also willing to accept the possibility that 'maybe'
our Australopithecine or 'Homo habilis' ancestors in the African
veldt around Olduvai Gorge were once studied by something like
the Black Monolith observing "Moon-Watcher" and his fellow hairy
Pliocene hominids in Arthur C. Clarke and Stanley Kubrick's
'2001: A Space Odyssey'!

A few somewhat "far-out" parapsychological and Fortean theories
admittedly lie on the border between scientific and fringe
Forteanism. It may largely be a matter of personal taste which
side of that border yo place them on. They include speculations
about "group minds," about quasi-material "thought-forms" or
"tulpas," and about subterranean cavern-dwelling predatory
quasi-humanoids. I see them as stretching the MSWP very nearly
to its breaking point - but not yet QUITE breaking it.

Parapsychologists like Whately Carington, G.N.M. Tyrrell, Nandor
Fodor, and D. Scott Rogo have speculated about telepathically-
generated, quasi-autonomous "group minds," "collective idea-
patterns," or "gestalts" of families, clans, tribes, cultures,
political movements, etc. These "group minds" or "gestalts"
would be telepathically created from the beliefs, myths,
symbols, archetypal images, etc., of those groups, and would
have a certain independent active telepathic influence on group
members' minds. Such "group minds," "gestalts," or "collective
idea-patterns" might explain family warning-spirits like the
Irish banshee, Catholic and Eastern Orthodox apparitions of the
Virgin and saints, mediaeval appearances of the Devil, ancient
Greek and Roman visions of Pan, satyrs, nymphs, dryads, Theseus,
and Castor & Pollux, Celtic and Germanic close encounters with
fairies, gnomes, leprechauns, dwarfs, trolls, etc. - and UFO
close encounters and abductions in our own time. Sometimes, some
of these parapsychologists have suggested, these visions and
apparitions take a temporarily semi-solid, quasi-material form
as "thought-forms," "tulpas," or "telesmic images." UFOs,
"aliens," Bigfoot, Lake Monsters, "Black Dogs," "Mothmen," and
assorted "cryptids" might be such "tulpas." Such "tulpas" might
actually have a temporary physical existence - as collective
psychic projections of our own human "group minds," or perhaps
of Carl Gustav Jung's "Collective Unconscious." Jerome Clark and
Loren Coleman at one time proposed something along such lines in
'The Unidentified' (1975), where they drew on Carl Jung's
theories to describe the UFO phenomenon as a planetary
poltergeist generating apparitions from Humankind's repressed
collective unconscious to create UFO manifestations, Men in
Black, etc. - some of which ideas former FATE editor Clark
reportedly now disavows.

All-out hollow-earth theories like those of John Cleves Symmes,
Marshall Gardner, Cyrus Reed Teed, John Uri Lloyd ('Etidorhpa',
1895), and Willis G. Emerson ('The Smoky God', 1908) clearly
belong to fringe Forteanism, involving QUITE extreme
modifications of accepted MSWP views of the Earth's structure.
There is a bit less outright conflict with orthodox MSWP
geology, however in the suggestion that subterranean cavern-
systems in the Earth's crust may be vastly more extensive and
complex than mainstream geologists yet believe. These cavern-
systems may harbor a vast variety of organisms originally
descended from surface-dwelling life-forms, it is suggested. In
effect, these vast underground cavern-realms hold a largely
unknown and unsuspected subterranean biosphere: a now almost
independent biosphere that originated millions of years ago as
an aberrant, specialized branch or offshoot of our terrestrial
biosphere.

Thus, William Michael Mott argues in 'Caverns, Cauldrons, and
Concealed Creatures' (2000)that this cavern-dwelling subterrene
fauna includes a number of intelligent or semi-intelligent
humanoid and reptilian races with a seemingly "magical" advanced
technology. These subterrene humanoids and reptoids, Mott
believes, have been preying both cannibalistically and
reproductively on surface humanity throughout history, abducting
us sometimes for food but much more importantly to steal our
genetic material and cross-breed with us. They account for the
demons, gnomes, fairies, trolls, dwarfs, frog-princes, dragons,
serpent-people, mermen, and mermaids of traditional religion,
mythology, and folklore, for the so-called "Hairy Hominids,"
"Bigfoot," "Lake Monsters," "frog-men," "lizard-men," and other
"cryptids" and "mystery beasts" studied by cryptozoologists, and
for modern UFOs, "aliens," "Grays," "Mothmen," and "deros." All
such entities and creatures, Mott argues, have a subterranean
origin, though they try to make us believe that they are
extraterrestrial, "ultraterrestrial," or other-dimensional.
UFOs, Mott believes, come from the cavern realms inside the
Earth rather than from outer space. Like the space aliens
discussed by extraterrestrial-oriented abductologists like Budd
Hopkins and David M. Jacobs, Mott's cavern-dwellers are
obsessively, ruthlessly interested in hybridizing with us and
stealing our genetic material. Like Hopkins and Jacobs, Mott
believes that they wish to improve their own somewhat defective
or degenerate genetic stock and to make themselves (or their
children and grandchildren) better fitted to survive and thrive
in our own environment. Mott, we should note, confines these
cavern-realms to the Earth's crust. He does not speculate about
concentric habitable inner-earth spheres like John Cleves
Symmes, nor a vast inner cavity with an inner sun or inner
energy-center like W.G. Emerson in 'The Smoky God' or John Uri
Lloyd in 'Etidorhpa'. As an inner-earth theorist, Mott is far
more modest and conservative than Symmes, Emerson, or Lloyd.

In an e-mail discussion of conspiracy theorizing in the UFO
field, parapsychologist George P. Hansen, author of 'The
Trickster and the Paranormal' (2001), remarked (private
communication, August 8, 2002) that his own "observations
suggest that conspiracy thinking in the UFO area is far more
prevalent among nuts-and-bolts ufologists and others that adopt
a =91concrete' reality stance as opposed to New Agers who have a
more =91metaphysical' approach." Later that day, Hansen added
(private communication, August 8, 2002) his "impression" that
"the nuts-and-bolts people put a stronger emphasis" on
"government cover-ups of UFO crashes." He felt that "a very,
very high percentage of nuts-and-bolts ufologists believe that
the government either has a crashed saucer or knows the =91truth'
about them," while the "metaphysical types sometimes embrace
really wide ranging conspiracies that are much more fluid in
their applicability."

My own personal impression is that while nuts-and-bolts
UFO'logists do very often allege government cover-ups of UFO
crashes and government cover-ups of its "knowledge" of the
"truth" about UFOs, scientific Forteans (among whom I include
the nuts-and-bolts UFO'logists) are otherwise not much given to
conspiracy theorizing. It is the fringe Forteans, I have myself
long noticed, who are in fact much more given to conspiracy
theorizing about history, society, and politics in general, to
Jewish, Illuminati, Bilderbergers, New World Order, or Reptilian
world domination conspiracy theories like those of Milton
William Cooper and David Icke, to allegations that the United
Nations was started as a Communist world domination agency with
a charter written or dictated by Joseph Stalin, and to
denunciations of so-called "political correctness." You simply
never see any such theories, speculations, charges, or
denunciations in any of the books or articles, for instance, of
Patrick Huyghe, Loren Coleman, Jerome Clark, George P. Hansen,
Brenda Denzler, Stanton Friedman, Bruce Maccabee, David Jacobs,
Budd Hopkins, Bernard Heuvelmans, or Ivan T. Sanderson. Some of
them at times may espouse much more limited and modest
conspiracy hypotheses, as about government UFO cover-ups - but
not fantasies of vast Illuminati, Zionist, International Jewish
Bankers, or Reptilian plots. As historian Richard Hofstadter
once noted, there is a big difference between locating
conspiracies in history, and seeing history itself as a
conspiracy. One principal reason, I believe, is that scientific
Forteans are generally much less alienated from or hostile
towards the "Establishment" or "cultural =E9lites" than are fringe
Forteans. Of course, this is only a rough generalization, to
which I would naturally concede many specific exceptions!

Pax vobiscum,

T. Peter <tpeterpark.nul>
Garden City South, L.I., N.Y.

-----

Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul


"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                        Re: Will-O-The Wisps - Brock

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:07:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Will-O-The Wisps - Brock


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:30:51 -0700
>Subject: Will-O-The Wisps

>Comment. Will-o-the wisp "science" is merely the collection of
>anecdotes!

Also from Corliss:

William R. Corliss, Ed., Remarkable Luminous Phenomena in Nature
(Glen Arm, Maryland: The Sourcebook Project, 2001) p. 290

"X67. General observation. A.A. Mills, a British scientist, has
had the political courage to do research on will-o'-the-wisps,
those greatly neglected luminous phenomena said to frequent
marshy places. His literature search confirmed the reality of
these cold flames, though he noted that they seemed to be
reported only very rarely in modern times... In truth, today's
scientific establishment tends to laugh off will-o'-the-wisps as
old wive's tales or as misidentifications of St. Elmo's Fire or
ball lightning. But, even if their reality as a distinct
phenomenon is acknowledged, will-o'-the-wisps are considered to
be simply the spontaneous ignitions of marsh gas - a trivial
phenomenon not worth wasting time and research dollars on."

"Mill's study, however, shows this condescending attitude to be
far off the mark. He experimented with marsh gases, even
constructing his own controlled "swamp" in the laboratory. He
has been unable to duplicate the well-established
characteristics of will-o'-the-wisps; i.e., spontaneous
ignition, cold blue flames, no significant odor, etc.  The marsh
gas theory does not seem to hold water..."

Primary source: Mills, A.A.; "Will-o'-the-Wisp," Chemistry in
Britain, 16:69, February 1980.


=====

THE MAGONIA EXCHANGE LIST
Collecting and sharing accounts
of anomalous aerial phenomena
from antiquity up to 1947.
http://embark.to/magonia

HELP THE PROJECT WITH A MODEST DONATION!
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=humble98225%40yahoo.com&item_name=Return+
to+Magonia+Project+-+Donation&no_note=1&tax=0&currency_code=USD

-  -  -  -  -








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

               Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:01:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:09:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -


>From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:12:35 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component

>Larry wrote:

>>Otherwise, I would guess we have:

>>a) An electric rock for people who them.
>>b) A self cooking potato.
>>c) Some kid having fun.

>Many pet stores sell "electric rocks" for people who keep
>lizards or snakes. They help the critters keep warm, when the
>night is chill. Basically the lapidary equivalent of an electric
>blanket, or heating pad.


Hi Rod:

I didn't think of that, a warm rock for reptiles. I would expect
a couple more leads however, for a temperature sensor. You could
cook the critters without some kind of regulation.

As a child, when they still raised fowl in Redwood City, CA, I
remember a batch of chicks kept warm by a little tiny 5-watt
electric bulb. It was November (my mom went to buy a _really_
fresh turkey. Boy does that go back.

I once saw a picture of a monkey with (what looked like) a DB-25
connector firmly attached to its skull. That's something like a
multi-pin connector on the back of your computer. There was a
cable attached, presumably that went to some scientific
apparatus. The poor monkey looked thoroughly unhappy. The
picture was in a catalog from some scientific supply house,
everyone who saw it was disgusted.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

               Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:23:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:11:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Hatch


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:13:32 -0700
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

<snip>

>I was favorably impressed with Corso Sr. when I met him in 1997

>Roswell mystery solved: It was a time machine built and
>launched by Phil Corso Jr. This is a cogent reason among others
>to reaffirm my plans to retire from this field.


Hello Bill:

Corso Jr. and his amateur time machine [burp!]

Nobody can blame you for retiring from this field, I've
considered the same thing myself from time to time. Now is not
the time for me however.


Best wishes whatever you do.

- Larry











   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                 Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:44:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:14:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hatch


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:36:12 -0400
>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

<snip>

>>Subject: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>Source: Pravda

>>http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/12624_Holes.html

>>04-26-04

>>"Black Holes" Devour People >>Pravda

<snip>

>>Researcher Richard Lazarus suggests that meteorites are behind
>>these mysteries. During their fall on the ground, celestial
>>bodies are charged with a potential as high as billions of volt.
>>On hitting Earth's surface they explode with a violent force, as
>>it happened near the River Tunguska, Siberia. But sometimes
>>meteorites fall apart before they reach Earth, hitting it with a
>>huge wave of energy that creates electrostatic levitation. Under
>>these circumstances, large groups of people, ships or even
>>trains may be lifted up and transferred across vast distances.

<snip>

>Hogwash!

Amen!

<snip>

>The plasma generated by the hypersonic passage of cosmic bodies
>(that become meteorites upon striking the ground) through the
>very upper reaches of earth's atmosphere is dissipated (unless
>they are of extremely large and rare size) upon retardation from
>cosmic (orbital) velocity and ceases to further be generated,
>usually at above twenty miles altitude.

Not only that, the same EM fields, weakened by distance, could
easily be reproduced in the laboratory. At close quarters, one
could levitate whole beer joints with a car battery.

>The Tunguska cosmic body (interpreted by most who have studied
>the evidence as having been a small comet) did not hit the
>earth's surface at all, contrary to the statement, above. It
>exploded far above the earth with energy that was detected
>around the world.

<snip>

> .. no evidence has ever been documented of "electrostatic
>levitation" in meteoric passage of cosmic bodies, whether large
>or small. Someone is really letting the imagination run wild.

Hi Ray:

The source is "Pravda" recall. Somebody wrote in recently that
the 'Pravda' name, domain and website was ripped off by (yet
another) Russian entrepreneur who had little or no real
authority or claim to the proper name of the old Soviet rag.

Somewhat more interesting, and if memory serves, is that
somebody dug thru British military records and found that there
was no such mysterious disappearance in the first place!

If someone wants to look that up, it would be appreciated.
Personally, I thing the Vanished Regiment belongs in the
Jackalope file.

Will the real "Pravda" please stand up? That's a line from an
old TV show called "To Tell the Truth", again if memory serves
me [burp!]

What I see is a fake Pravda, regurgitating a bogus story, using
phony physics, to shake a few rubles out of the rubes.

How anyone could credit this is just beyond me, but it happens
every day.


Best wishes

- Larry









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                 Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:57:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:16:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hatch


>From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

<snip>

>Everyone here may be aware of this, but some may not:

>Pravda.ru is not the real Pravda newspaper website. Pravda (the
>old communist newspaper) hasn't existed for a decade, and
>therefore does not even have a website.

>The editor of the fake Pravda website, Wadim Gorshenin, was a
>former employee of the real Pravda (writer? janitor?), but the
>former editor of the real Pravda, Aleksandr Ilyin, has tried to
>stop the fake Pravda from using the name of the real Pravda - so
>far unsuccessfully.

>The fake Pravda trades on the name of the former newspaper, but
>has no relation to it (or to actual news reporting for that
>matter). It is just one of those fake-news entertainment
>tabloids, but with a name you'd remember.

Hello Will:

Aha!  Thanks for the info Will. I referred to your message
above in a separate post.

In a way this is hilarious! "Pravda" jammed itself up the noses
of Soviet citizens for decades, to the exclusion of other
sources of news and information.

Now, some scoundrel absconded with the name and has a nice
website up with all the trimmings... including an agenda
something like the Weekly World News!

There is some small poetic justice here (IMDO) Any rag that
calls itself "The Truth" deserves whatever happens to it.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

               Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 05:51:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:17:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Hatch


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:29:10 -0500
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>

<snip>

>Great suffering and _most_ baragrugous ZOT!

- - - - -

Hello Poet Alfred:


I agree there is far too much baragrugous ZOT going around these
days.

When I was a child, mairsydoats were a dime a dozen. Where are
they now? Hiding behind barrels of neglected updock I suppose.


Just a few majuberous thoughts.

- LH










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                          Paranormal Students Group

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:04:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:19:31 -0400
Subject: Paranormal Students Group


Just wanted to let you all know about a brand new group I've
formed, something a little different from anything out there, a
bit more specialized in its intent. Please read the description
below, and even if it doesn't interest/fit you, please forward
it to any parties you know who might be interested...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Paranormal_Students/

Paranormal Students Association

The intent of this group is to bring together undergraduate and
graduate students and prospective students who are currently or
intend to pursue work in fields related to parapsychology,
ufology, crypto zoology, anthropology of consciousness or
religion, and other related subjects. The purpose of this group
is to connect future researchers, and provide a place for them
to discuss the various issues which effect these lines of
inquiry, to share and critique each other�s papers and ideas,
and offer advice. Also welcome are professors interested in
these areas and researchers already working in related fields
(if not attached to an institution, should have published at
least one paper or article in a peer-reviewed/respected
publication). Please include some information about yourself in
your sign-up to indicate the nature of your interest in this
group.

"One measures a circle beginning anywhere." -Charles Fort

--


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                   Re-Enacting A Visit From The Green Men

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:58:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:23:45 -0400
Subject: Re-Enacting A Visit From The Green Men


[another based on a 'true' story docudrama... -twc]

Source: Kentucky New Era

http://www.kentuckynewera.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/200404/28+Re-enacting-04-28-=
04_news.html+20040428+newsRe-enacting

April 28, 2004

Re-enacting a visit from the Green Men

Documentary on Kelly legend
By Michele Carlton
mcarlton.nul

HOPKINSVILLE -- Production work on a documentary featuring the
1955 invasion of "little green men" in the Kelly community is
nearly complete and may be released this fall on cable
television.

Barcon Video Productions in Glendale, Calif., is producing the
documentary entitled "Monsters of the UFO," which includes
dramatizations of three stories involving close encounters with
unexplained phenomenon.

Director/producer Barry Conrad said in a telephone interview
last week that it is "highly probable" that the documentary will
air as a two-hour special on the Sci-Fi Channel possibly around
Halloween.

"We are still working on the project with one more story yet to
complete," he said. "We hope to finish by the end of the
summer."

In addition to the Kelly incident, the film will explore
first=96hand accounts of the Mothman legend in Point Pleasant,
W.Va., and the Flatwoods Monster in Flatwoods, W.Va.

The Kelly legend started on Aug. 21, 1955, when residents
reported the landing of a spaceship near the home of Elmer
"Lucky" Sutton on Old Madisonville Road. Sutton and other family
members said 12 little men landed in a spaceship and then
battled them at the house for hours.

Although the creatures are now known as "the little green men of
Kelly," original stories reported they were silver.

To develop the documentary, a Barcon production crew conducted
eyewitness interviews in Hopkinsville in December 2002 and
December 2003 to include in the film. The dramatization of the
Kelly encounter was filmed last October in the Angeles National
Forest just north of Los Angeles.

"We've been screening the raw footage and I'm really happy with
the results," Conrad said. "We'll have a nice mixture showing
what happened through interviews and the re=96enactment. People
will feel like they are right there."

In July, Conrad will be conducting a lecture series about the
documentary for MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) in LA and Orange
County. During that time, a trailer for the show will be
premiered including some of the Kelly scenes.

Conrad said he and co-producer Lisa McIntosh are also planning a
separate one=96hour television production just on the Kelly aliens
to be released at a later date.

The California company is also producing a special DVD release
on the legend of the Kelly green men featuring photographs from
Hopkinsville and Kelly circa 1955 and old film footage of the
area.

"I've always been intrigued by that story," Conrad said.

Michele Carlton can be reached by telephone at 887-3235 or by e-
mail at mcarlton.nul

-----

Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                   Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:25:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:29:45 -0400
Subject: Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist


Hard Questions For Forteans: Forteans As Populist Intellectuals
(A Meta-Fortean Probe)

by T. Peter Park <tpeterpark.nul>

"By the damned, I mean the excluded" - Charles Hoy Fort, 'The
Book of the Damned'

Are Forteans courageous, independent-minded free spirits bravely
defying dogma, orthodoxy, convention, and "political
correctness" by uncovering unpopular, astonishing, even
frightening truths covered up by the "Establishment"? Or are
they rather resentful, poorly educated malcontents simply
expressing a sour-grapes populist class envy of polyester
against Harris tweed, Coors and Coke against Merlot and Perrier,
cheeseburgers and pizza against quiche and croissants, chili
against pesto, SUV's and pickups against Volvos and Volkswagens,
community colleges against the Ivy League, hunters against
ecologists, the American Legion against the Sierra Club, "four-
 square Americanism" against "political correctness," talk radio
against the "liberal media"?

Forteans see themselves as the former - but sometimes give
"Establishment" and "cultural elite" types the impression
(rightly or wrongly) of being the latter. Having a foot myself
in both the Fortean and the "cultural elite" camps, I feel a
personal investment in the question, and a concern about the
impression some Forteans might make on "cultural elite" types.
Can Forteans afford to ignore the impression they make? Don't
they owe it to themselves to avoid "turning off" the "cultural
elites" with an "Archie Bunker" or "Yahoo" image they may not
really deserve? Many Forteans do know how to"put their best foot
forward"--but many others don't seem to know how, or maybe don't
care.

Again, are Forteans a "new class" of populist folk-intellectuals
alongside traditional academics and "highbrows"? Do we see an
attempted "circulation of intellectual elites" in our time?

Do writers on UFO's, Bigfoot, ghosts, "psychical" phenomena,
Atlantis, planetary catastrophes, and Nostradamus predictions
compete with "cultural elite" pundits and social critics? Are
Forteans in a "turf war" with the Lionel Trillings, Irving
Howes, John Kenneth Galbraiths, Noam Chomskys, Richard Rortys,
Nathan Glazers, Michael Harringtons, Michel Foucaults, Jacques
Derridas, William F. Buckleys, Thomas Sowells, Gloria Steinems,
Hannah Arendts, and Susan Sontags?

These questions may sound bizarre. The groups deal with
different topics, enjoy vastly different levels of "mainstream"
media and academic prestige, and appeal to different audiences.
The "mainstream" often dismisses the Forteans as "crackpots,"
while honoring the Galbraiths, Chomskys, Glazers, and Steinems
as eminent scholars addressing important social, political, and
cultural questions. The latter, rather than the "Forteans," are
called "intellectuals"in newspapers like the 'New York Times'
and 'Washington Post', in magazines like 'Time', 'Newsweek',
'Harper's, and 'The New Republic', by network television
newscasters, and at "Ivy League" universities.

St1ill, Forteans--or many Forteans, at any rate - are part of a
"populist intelligentsia" expressing the interests and
grievances of people who see their beliefs as ignored by
"mainstream," "Establishment," or "elite" scientists, scholars,
media, academicians, and clergy. Besides Forteans, such populist
intellectuals and their followers include religious
fundamentalists, commentators like Rush Limbaugh and Matt
Drudge, "survivalists," conspiracy theorists, gun enthusiasts,
"Holocaust Revisionists," "militias" like the "Aryan Nation,"
and anti-government terrorists like "Unabomber" Theodore
Kaczynski and Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. These groups
are not identical, and do not agree on everything - but do
overlap somewhat in membership, interests, and attitudes.

They all feel slighted by the "cultural elites" - by the
"prestige" media, universities, and journals, by the
"official"scientific and medical institutions, and by the
"mainline" churches. They are beneficiaries of mass literacy and
modern communications technology, by-passing "official"
institutions and media with alternative communications networks.
They feel excluded by "official" institutions and publications,
but use the Internet as a "Samizdat" for spreading their
beliefs. If Harvard, 'Newsweek', the 'New York Times', WCBS-TV,
the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the
American Historical Association, or the national "mainline"
church hierarchies dismiss them, they appeal directly to "the
people" on the Internet and in their own publications.

I myself am a Ph.D. in European history from a prestigious elite
school, the University of Virginia, with both high-culture and
Fortean interests. I have published in both mainstream scholarly
journals and Fortean publications. I'm thus a keen observer - and
participant - of both subcultures. Apart from specific subject
interests and academic credentials, these two cultures differ in
sensibility and outlook. I don't say that one outlook is
"better"or "truer" than the other, only that they ARE different.
Many (not all, but still many) Forteans show a vision of life
very different from that of mainstream academic scholars, and of
the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Organization
for Women, Common Cause, People for the American Way, Americans
for Democratic Action, the NAACP, and Amnesty International -
again, not "good" or "bad," but a fact of life. This was not
always true In the 19th century, these two cultures were less
sharply opposed than they are today. 19th century students of
anomalous phenomena saw themselves as the daring "cutting edge"
rather than as bitter adversaries of their day's "mainstream"
science. The 19th century working classes eagerly pursued
"mainstream" high culture and sought guidance from "mainstream"
intellectuals.

Today's "mainstream" intellectuals are not unanimous. We have
C.P. Snow's "Two Cultures" of scientists and literary humanists-
-and traditionalist upholders of the Western cultural "canon"
versus multiculturalists, feminists, and postmodernists.. Still,
most share a belief in the reliability of generally accepted
scientific, historical, and scholarly knowledge, a loyalty to
contemporary society as a going concern worth preserving, a
sober hope in its continuance, and a commitment to humanistic
values of "liberty, equality, fraternity." They are committed to
religious tolerance and racial equality, a rejection of
religious fundamentalism, and a chariness of apocalyptic
visions. Whether they are political liberals, radicals, or
conservatives, and agnostics or religious believers,
"mainstream" academics and intellectuals accept a "consensus
reality" where evolution and an expanding universe are
established facts - while UFO abductions, Illuminati or New World
Order conspiracies, and cryptographic Bible Codes predicting
current events do not exist. They hold their beliefs in a
tentative manner - aware they may be wrong, seeing their own
views as plausible, reasonably well-founded hypotheses alongside
other hypotheses.. They are the opposite of amateur historians
pontificating from their bar-stool or dinner table that "history
shows" that divorce, homosexuality, high taxes, immigration, or
"women's lib"caused the fall of Rome, or that FDR engineered
Pearl Harbor to maneuver America into World War II.

Many(though not all) Forteans, by contrast, often show a
populist suspicion of such academic and "cultural elite"
attitudes, and a sympathy for fundamentalist, xenophobic,
apocalyptic, and conspiratorial views. Many exhibit a "Chicken
Little" obsession with "prophecies" of impending disasters - in
the Bible, or by Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce. They fear a vast
apocalypse about to sweep away human history impossible to
avert: thermonuclear war, Muslim terrorist attacks, a plague
worse than AIDS and Ebola, alien invasion, global warming, a new
Ice Age, a polar shift, a collision with "Planet X," or the
"Rapture," "Tribulation," and Second Coming. Some speculate
about Jewish, Masonic, Illuminati, "International Bankers." or
"New World Order" conspiracies - and about the U.S. Government
making a pact with space aliens under Area 51. They scorn as
na=EFve the liberal/radical dream of building a just society and
peaceful world through good will, rationality, social reform and
political activism. They have equally little faith in the
conservative dream of preserving a stable society for coming
generations through Judaeo-Christian moral values and capitalist
free enterprise.

A grassroots apocalyptic anti-academic cultural and political
populism unites many (though not all) Forteans, UFO enthusiasts,
and "New Agers" with religious fundamentalists, "survivalists,"
conspiracy theorists, militias, gun enthusiasts, and terrorists
like Timothy McVeigh and Theodore Kaczynski. McVeigh,
incidentally, was intrigued by UFO's, once snuck into and
explored Area 51, and repeatedly watched the movie 'Contact' on
Death Row. These people, often using the Internet as their forum
as traditional Bohemians used cafes, suggest a "circulation of
intellectual elites," an autodidact "intellectual proletariat"
contesting the "mainstream" high-culture, academic, and
liberal/radical heirs of traditional avant-garde and radical
"Bohemia."

The 19th century working classes and the 19th century
forerunners of modern "Forteans" did not share the contemporary
populist resentment of "mainstream" academics, established
scientists, and liberal/radical intellectuals. Many 19th century
American and European workers eagerly strove to appropriate high
culture and supported political movements devised by
"mainstream" intellectuals. American "mechanics" flocked to
Lyceums and Chautauquas, or pursued private self-education in
the manner of the "Learned Blacksmith" Elihu Burritt. European
"proletarians" joined radical movements led by middle-class or
even aristocratic intellectuals.

In 19th century America, the "Lyceums" and later the
"Chautauquas" gave lectures, readings, and concerts on
philosophy, science, literature, and classical music. They
attracted farmers, workingmen, and their wives, as well as the
middle classes. Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, Daniel
Webster, Nathaniel Hawthorne, and Susan B. Anthony were popular
Lyceum speakers. Many of Emerson's essays were originally Lyceum
lectures. Elihu Burritt (1810-1879), the "Learned Blacksmith,"
was a Connecticut blacksmith who became a peace advocate and
prodigious self-taught linguist. Burritt educated himself by
holding a book on a stand behind his anvil and reading as he
worked. He studied mathematics, geography, and languages,
learning 50 languages by age 30! He became a crusader for
antislavery, temperance, self-education, and above all world
peace. The workingmen and farmers who flocked to Lyceums and
Chautauquas, and the self-educated "mechanics" like Burritt,
were eager to acquire the high culture enjoyed by the prosperous
'haute bourgeoisie' of Boston, New York, or Philadelphia who had
attended Harvard, Yale, or Princeton.

In the 19th and early 20th centuries, Europe's industrial
workers sought an improvement of their condition by political
action through radical movements led or inspired by
"progressive" intellectuals. The rural peasantry were
traditionalist devotees of Church and King, devout Catholics,
Anglicans, Lutherans, or Eastern Orthodox loyal to the
traditions and institutions of the pre-1789 European 'ancien
regime', voting for conservative political parties. Urban
industrial workers, however, were estranged from Church,
monarchy, and aristocracy. Instead, they supported various forms
of socialism, communism, anarchism, trade-unionism, or left-
republicanism. Skeptical of religion, urban workers sought a
this-worldly improvement of their lot through political and
social action. They embraced either the revolutionary utopian
ideologies of secular salvation invented by radical
intellectuals like St.-Simon, Fourier, Owen, Marx, Engels,
Proudhon, Bakunin, and Kropotkin, or the soberly hopeful
programs of gradualist social reform of middle-class liberals
like Jefferson and Mill, and by reformist socialists like Jean
Jaur=E8s, Eduard Bernstein, and the English Fabian Socialists
(H.G. Wells, George Bernard Shaw, Sidney & Beatrice Webb, etc.)

Whether revolutionary communists or anarchists, or peacefully
reformist social-democrats and left-liberals, Europe's
industrial working classes in the late 19th and early 20th
centuries were wedded to 19th century offshoots of the
Enlightenment. European industrial workers espoused the
Enlightenment dream of Condorcet, Paine, Jefferson, St.-Simon,
Bentham, Comte, Marx, and Mill. With Condorcet, Paine,
Jefferson, St.-Simon, Bentham, Comte, Marx, and Mill, they
dreamed of building a peaceful rational co=F6perative City of Man
devoted to the Greatest Happiness of the Greatest Number through
reason, science, and good will. They felt that it was the duty
of decent, rational men and women to fight, work, and agitate
for the Hoped-For Better Day to Come. Next to active connivance
in reaction or tyranny, the worst sin was a fatalistic
acceptance of the inevitability of war, injustice, poverty, and
oppression, a lazy pessimistic refusal to fight for justice and
against social evils.

The European workers joining socialist, communist, or radical-
democratic parties or anarchist cells embraced schemes of social
betterment devised by middle-class and aristocratic
intellectuals, journalists, and lawyers. Liberal idealists like
Jefferson, Emerson, and Mill came from middle-class or even
"landed gentry" social backgrounds, as did socialist, communist,
and anarchist firebrands like Marx, Engels, Proudhon, Bakunin,
Kropotkin, Ferdinand Lassalle, Jules Guesde, and Francisco
Ferrer, and reformist socialists like Jean Jaur=E8s, Eduard
Bernstein, Eugene Debs, and the English Fabians. 19th century
European and American workingmen looked to such educated,
scholarly progressive bourgeois thinkers for guidance. The
socialists and anarchists organized adult education programs and
"workers' universities" similar to the American Lyceums and
Chautauquas. Many workingmen were avid intellectual self-
improvers, eagerly devouring Plato, Aristotle, Shakespeare,
Goethe, Hegel, Darwin, Marx, Spencer, and Nietzsche. Leon
Trotsky, in his 'Literature and Revolution' (1925), predicted
that under communism, the proletariat would appropriate the
cultural riches of the past, and the average human type could
rise to the level of Aristotle, Goethe, or Marx!

European workers looked for guidance not only to socialists and
anarchists. They also read and discussed liberal thinkers like
John Stuart Mill, and conservative critics of 'laissez-faire',
"Mammonism," and the "Cash Nexus" like Thomas Carlyle, Charles
Dickens, Benjamin Disraeli, Charles Kingsley, and John Ruskin.
They even read anti-socialist, "rugged individualist" apostles
of science like Herbert Spencer, and anti-democratic heralds of
the '=DCbermensch' like Friedrich Nietzsche. They saw Mill,
Carlyle, Disraeli, Dickens, and Ruskin as allies against "every
man for himself and the Devil take the hindmost" 'laissez-faire'
"rugged individualism," Spencer as a fellow-fighter for
scientific enlightenment against religious dogmatism, and
Nietzsche as a comrade-in-arms against petty, narrow-minded
bourgeois conventionality.

The same respect for mainstream high culture marked the 19th and
early 20th century forerunners of today's "Forteans" and "New
Agers." It characterized the Mesmerists, phrenologists,
Swedenborgians, Spiritualists, Theosophists, "psychical
researchers," and readers of books like Catherine Crowe's 'The
Night Side of Nature' (1848) and Robert Dale Owen's 'Footfalls
on the Boundary of Another World' (1860). Many Mesmerists,
Swedenborgians, Spiritualists, Theosophists, and "psychical
researchers" were actively involved in social reconstruction
movements: trade unionism, anti-slavery, feminism, pacifism,
socialism, etc. They saw their Fortean interests as a broadening
and deepening of orthodox science, rather than as its overthrow.
They were only drawing attention to phenomena overlooked by
"mainstream" scientists and philosophers, or hastily dismissed
in debunking mediaeval "superstition" and ignorant peasant or
tribal "folklore." They acted like "cutting edge" Thomas Kuhnian
paradigm-shattering scientific revolutionists, daringly going
where no man has gone in penetrating the secrets of our vast
mysterious universe.

They did not denounce mainstream scientists as closed-minded
mendacious Establishmentarians conspiring to hide the truth.
They did not preach the "Chicken Little" expectation of an
unavoidable mega-catastrophe (atomic war, super-plague,
planetary collision, etc.) to end human civilization in the near
future. They hoped to improve their society, rather than
fatalistically awaiting its apocalyptic destruction. Some
Forteans now still hold the outlook of their 19th century
forerunners. Others, however, embrace populist anti-
intellectualism, conspiracy theorizing, and apocalypticism.

Scientists are themselves partly responsible for the anti-
scientific backlash. On the one hand, many eminent scientists
and philosophers have recognized the importance of anomalous
phenomena like ESP, apparitions, and mediumistic communications.
We may name here Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Henry Sidgwick,
F.W.H. Myers, William James, Henri Bergson, Sir Arthur Conan
Doyle, Sir Oliver Lodge, Alfred North Whitehead, William
McDougall, Carl Gustav Jung, Aldous Huxley, C.D. Broad, and
David Ray Griffin, as well as some supposed scientific skeptics
like H.G. Wells, Sigmund Freud, and Sir Julian Huxley. Against
this, however, we find the dogmatic skepticism of the T.H.
Huxley, Lord Kelvin, Hermann Helmholz, Bertrand Russell, Carl
Sagan, Paul Kurtz, Isaac Asimov, and Philip Klass types. This
has created a popular impression that the academic and
scientific communities are dogmatically closed considering
anomalous phenomena. It has encouraged the belief that the
academic and scientific "Establishment"is conspiring to suppress
discussion of such phenomena.

Historically, the 19th century alliance between "highbrows" and
"Proles" continued into the early 20th century. In the late 19th
century, however, the working-class, socialist, and proto-
Fortean respect for mainstream high culture gave way to a
resentful populist anti-intellectualism among the American and
European working and lower-middle classes. A grassroots
rejection of both aristocratic/churchly conservative and
orthodox liberal/radical intellectual traditions among the
"plain folk" led to Burkean or "Throne and Altar" conservatism,
Disraelian 'noblesse oblige' "Tory Democracy," and traditional
liberalism, socialism, and anarchism alike yielding to an anti-
intellectual populism distinct from the traditional Left and
Right. This populist mentality rose in the decades after the
American Civil War of 1861-1865 and the Franco-Prussian War of
1870-1871. The American "Gilded Age," the German "Gr=FCndungs=E4ra"
of rapid industrial expansion, and the early decades of the
French "Third Republic" saw the rise of this populist mind-set
among the working and lower-middle classes and small farmers in
both America and Europe. It became quite widespread among them
in the 20th century.

Historians use the term "populism" for movements claiming to
represent BOTH the economic interests AND the cultural outlook
of the "common people" or "plain folk.," against BOTH economic
exploitation by Big Capital AND the cultural corruption of big-
city and academic intellectuals, "sophisticates," and media.
Historians rarely use "populist" for liberals, socialists, or
anarchists who champion the interests of the lower classes with
highbrow ideologies based on Mill, Marx, Bakunin, Kropotkin, or
the English Fabians. Rather, they use "populist"for anti-
"Establishment" movements with a strongly anti-intellectual,
fundamentalist, racialist, or xenophobic flavor. The original
19th century American Populists were led by small-town Southern
and Midwestern lawyers and newspapermen, with little input from
progressive East Coast and Ivy League intellectuals. Some
Populists expressed racist and anti-Semitic views and conspiracy
theories, and a resentment of highbrow intellectuals. William
Jennings Bryan, the Populist candidate for U.S. President in
1896, 1900, and 1908, defended religious fundamentalism against
Darwinism at the 1925 Scopes "Monkey Trial."

Xenophobia, anti-Semitism, and conspiracy theories were a
disturbing undertone in American Populism -  but central to the
"V=F6lkisch," "Integral Nationalist," and "Right-Radical"
movements arising in Europe in the 1880's and 1890's. These
preached a blend of xenophobia, nationalism, anti-Semitism,
conspiracy theorizing, suspicion of urban cultural "decadence,"
and hostility to both "Capitalism" and "Socialism." Especially
in Germany and Austria, whose "V=F6lkisch" movements spawned
Nazism, they embraced occultism, racial theories, and attacks on
"Jewish" science. In France, anti-Semites divided the country
into bitterly opposed camps with the Dreyfus Affair of the
1890's and early 1900's.

The specific movements of the 1880-1945 era are dead and gone,
except among some small fringe groups. However, the broader
populist mentality is still with us. We see it in the sniping at
"cultural elites," in the "Chicken Little" syndrome, in the
obsession with Nostradamus' and Edgar Cayce's "prophecies," in
fundamentalism, and in the fundamentalist and "New World Order"
paranoia about computer microchips and supermarket bar codes as
"the Mark of the Beast." Anti-Semitism has taken a back seat to
anti-Isl=E2mism and Arab-baiting - though we still do hear dark
mutterings about the "Zionist Occupation Government,"
"International Bankers," and "Beverly Hills liberals."

Sociologically, Forteans and other "populist intellectuals"
represent an attempted "circulation of intellectual elites," the
yearning of a new would-be "intelligentsia" for a "place in the
sun." Their rise parallels that of the original radical/Bohemian
"highbrow"intelligentsia in the 18th and early 19th centuries.
Like the radical pamphleteers of the French Revolution snubbed
by the salon 'philosophes' of the High Enlightenment, and the
struggling cafe artists and poets of 'La Boh=E8me', many of
today's Internet-surfing UFO, conspiracy, and apocalypse buffs
can appear like an intellectual proletariat resentful of the
prestige and pretensions of "Establishment" scientists,
scholars, and intellectuals.

Modern "mainstream" intellectuals have a three-fold historic
social root: (1) university professors; (2) cultivated upper-
class gentlemen of letters, along with ambitious, talented folk
of humbler origin welcomed into their salons; and (3) "Bohemian"
writers and artists living on the margins of society. The
celebrated 18th century 'philosophes' and literati of the High
Enlightenment gentlemen of leisure or salon lions enjoying
aristocratic patronage: Voltaire, Montesquieu, Hume, Gibbon,
Diderot, LaMettrie, d'Holbach, Rousseau, Helvetius, Condorcet,
Marmontel, Jefferson. The "Bohemia" of struggling writers,
artists, and composers living by their wits on the fringes of
society was the seedbed of the 19th century's literary/artistic
avant-garde and political radicalism. "Bohemia" developed in
early 19th century European cities from the "literary
underground" of 18th century London and Paris. Tobias Smollett
and Samuel Johnson's London had its Grub Street, described by
Johnson as "inhabited by writers of small histories,
dictionaries, and temporary poems." France, too, had a vast
"Grub Street" of hack writers leading hand-to-mouth lives in
garrets. Dreaming of becoming 'philosophes', celebrated poets,
and noted dramatists, they resentfully envied the Voltaires,
Diderots, Montesquieus, D'Alemberts, and Marmontels leading
privileged lives at the top levels of the Republic of Letters.

Princeton University historian Robert Darnton has traced the
radicalism of the French Revolution to 'The Literary Underground
of the Old Regime' (Cambridge MA and London: Harvard University
Press, 1982). Peering below the High Enlightenment salon
'philosophes' Darnton portrayed the underworld of garret
scribblers, pirate publishers, pornographers, clandestine book
peddlers, book smugglers, and police spies forming the literary
underground of the Enlightenment. This literary underground
merged into an underworld of swindlers, recruiting agents,
pimps, prostitutes, pickpockets, blackmailers, and murderers.
This literary proletariat contributed to the fall of the Old
Regime, providing the orators, demagogues, pamphleteers, and
popular journalists of the French Revolution. The radicalism of
the Revolution came from the vulgarized "philosophy" of their
scurrilous pamphlets, rather than from the polite salon
philosophism of the Voltaires, Montesquieus, Diderots, and
Rousseaus.

Below the exalted level of the Voltaires, Diderots, and
Rousseaus, lesser figures compiled the encyclopedias,
dictionaries, digests, and anthologies so plentiful in 18th
century France. Cruder hack work included writing for Government
ministers, pamphleteering for the "bulls" and "bears" on the
Bourse, publishing social gossip sheets, writing pornography,
peddling prohibited books, and spying for the police. The salon
was a preserve for the high 'philosophes', who left the cafes to
the lower classes of litterateurs. Cafes were the antithesis of
the salon, being open to everyone (like the Internet today!).

In the early 19th century London's Grub Street and the French
literary underground became stabilized in many European cities
as "Bohemia," the seed-bed of many noted writers, artists, and
composers - and many influential revolutionaries and social
critics. Like the 18th century French "literary
underground,"19th century Bohemians survived by hack-work for
commercial publishers pandering to mass taste. Gentlemen
Enlightenment authors-like Montesquieu, Voltaire, Hume, Holbach,
and Jefferson could be philosophers in their ample leisure time,
but free-lance writers found no market for serious work.
Instead, as noted by Alfred Salomon, "the demands of the
uneducated grew louder" for "creators of entertainment, of
pornography, and of horror stories." These writers, "separated
from any form of 'Kulturtraeger' and living on their wits
alone," learned to "prefer each other's company to that of a
hostile world." They created "their own life-pattern" as "white-
collar intellectuals" who lived by "meeting the demands of their
publishers and whose spare time was taken up with more serious
efforts." They formed "a new social group," whose "center" was
"not the court, nor the Church, but the coffeehouse."
Montesquieu "discovered the social function of the coffeehouse -
the home of the homeless intellectual" [Albert Salomon, "The
Messianic Bohemians," in George B. de Huszar, ed.,'The
Intellectuals: A Controversial Portrait' (The Free Press of
Glencoe, Illinois, 1960, reprinted from Salomon, 'The Tyranny of
Progress' [The Noonday Press, 1955]), p. 20]

"Coffehouse intellectuals" are "bohemians...learned men who have
not submitted to the rules of social and professional careers
which the society around them takes for granted." They are men
"utterly indifferent to the sources of their income," who "do
not care to pursue the organized channels of literary or
academic advancement." In the cafe, one could sit "surrounded by
poets, astronomers, military tacticians, revolutionaries, card-
players, and philologists," Revolutions, too, were prepared in
cafes. Thus, the German economist Emil Lederer and the Austrian
Socialist leader Rudolf Hilferding discussed the possibility of
a Russian revolution in a Viennese cafe in 1916. Lederer
believed a revolution was impending while Hilferding skeptically
answered, "Who will make the revolution? Mr. Trotsky, perhaps,
of the Central Cafe?" However, "Mr. Trotsky stepped out of the
cafe and made the revolution." [Albert Salomon, "The Messianic
Bohemians," p. 21]

The coffehouse is "the salon of homeless thinkers, poets, and
scientists, the drawing room of underpaid writers, their means
of escape from the abysmal physical conditions under which they
live." Poverty has "always been the supreme condition of he
bohemian" from which "he flees to the comparative warmth of the
coffehouse." Poverty gave Bohemians "a set of defenses which
have become, since the eighteenth century, standard procedure
for non-conformists: the anarchical attitude towards the
established goods of social conduct; the refusal to accept the
normative requirements of manners, fashions, and conventions."
The "routine requirements of society" have "often forced men
with a specific spiritual destination" like Baudelaire to
"escape into Bohemia." [Albert Salomon, p. 21]

18th century garret scribblers resented the prestige and
pretensions of the salon 'philosophes'. Since the late 19th
century, a similarly under-appreciated underground of
autodidacts has conducted a similar vendetta on the now
successful, prestigious, and "mainstreamed" cultural descendants
of the 18th century garret scribblers. They are cut off from the
established "highbrow,"academic-scholarly, scientific, labor-
union, adult-education,"mainline"-religious, or liberal
institutions, media, and communication channels of our time. The
literary, philosophical, and ideological descendants of the
garret scribblers are the 20th/21st century intellectual and
cultural "Establishment" - in effect the High Enlightenment
'philosophes' of our time! They are now attacked by "lean and
hungry" souls in an Electronic Age version of the 18th century
garret underworld, using the Internet as their "cafe"!

Or, are Forteans still something more than merely just that? I
myself would certainly very much hope so!

-----

Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

             Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:35:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:52:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 05:51:16 -0700
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:29:10 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

<snip>

>>Great suffering and _most_ baragrugous ZOT!

>I agree there is far too much baragrugous ZOT going around these
>days.

>When I was a child, mairsydoats were a dime a dozen. Where are
>they now? Hiding behind barrels of neglected updock I suppose.

>Just a few majuberous thoughts.


Mr Hatch;

Your easy majuberousness precedes _you_ Sir, though mares eat
oats and does eat oats, it's little lambs eat ivy; a kid will
eat ivy too... as would you? And, so provoked, why not?! Slower
than hemlock, it's still a sharp stick in an unsqeegeed third
eye! <LOL>

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

              Re: Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 14:49:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:55:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe - Hale


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:38:00 -0700
>Subject: Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe


>FWD [forteana] Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe - A "Meta-Fortean"
>Observation

>T. Peter <tpeterpark.nul>

>I believe there are two basic types of Forteans, espousing two
>distinct basic types of Forteanism or paranormalism. They are
>what I call fringe Forteans versus scientific Forteans.

Hi,

The native tribes of our planet accept paranormal and UFO
occurrences as part of the their culture, the Europeans are
always debating them, facts are they are part of the human
experience.


Roy

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                   1957 Everittstown New Jersey CE3 Claim

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 11:31:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 14:16:26 -0400
Subject: 1957 Everittstown New Jersey CE3 Claim


Listfolk:

I have had some recent correspondence with the highly regarded
but long-retired ufologist Ted Bloecher, who was active with
Civilian Saucer Intelligence, New York, in the late 1950s, when
the Everittstown, New Jersey, CE3 claim - the subject of
discussion recently on this List - occurred. We discussed the
case, which we both view as suspiciously atypical; there is also
at least one possibly significant contradiction in it. Ted was
kind enough to provide me with a copy of CSI's article on the
incident, from CSI Newsletter #10, December 15, 1957, p. 14.
Here it is, for what it's worth:


FROG-EYED - DOG EYED

Among the many remarkable reports dated November 6, 1957, the
following almost escaped our attention. A physician friend told
Jules St. Germain about the story, which appeared in the
Delaware Valley News (a weekly) on Nov. 15. At Jules' request
Dick Harpster, CSI member and a veteran newspaperman who lives
in Washington, N.J., and has actively participated in
investigating the [contactee Howard] Menger tales, talked to the
witnesses. He also sent us the story from the News, and intends
to get more information to answer further questions from the
data-greedy Research Section of CSI.

About dusk on November 6 John Trasco had just returned to his
home in Everittstown, N.J., from his work at a paper mill in New
Hope, Pa., and went outdoors to feed King, the 6-year-old,
charcoal-colored, half-blind, bad-tempered Belgian police dog
who was tied up at the side of the house. Mrs. Trasco, at the
kitchen window, heard King barking furiously, and looked out to
see a bright light in front of the barn, which is 60-70 feet
from the house, with shrubbery between. "I thought at first it
was a pond or puddle of water" (reflecting the last light of the
sky), Mrs. Trasco said. Then she realized that she was looking
at a luminous egg- shaped object, 9 to 12 feet long, hovering --
 "just going up and down" - a few feet off the ground in front
of the barn.

Because of the shrubbery she did not see the "little man" that
her husband confronted. The visitor was 2 1/2 or 3 feet high,
"dressed in a green suit with shiny buttons, with a green hat
like a tam and gloves with a shiny object at the tip of each
glove." He had a putty-colored face, a nose and chin, and large,
protuberant, frog- like eyes. In a voice that was "sharp and
scary" he spoke to Mr. Trasco, in "broken language, as if he
came from the other side." What Mr. Trasco _thought_ he said
was, "We are peaceful people. We don't want no trouble. We just
want your dog." Mrs. Trasco, inside the house, could hear the
sound of the voice, and she clearly heard her husband,
frightened but angry, yell, "Get the hell out of here!" At this
the creature re-entered the object - by what means, is still
uncertain, since Mrs. Trasco said her husband had seen no door,
portholes, or other opening. (He also reported that there was
not much noise: "It was about like what you'd hear inside a
ship.") The object then went fast up into the sky, like a tatter
of flame that breaks off an outdoor bonfire and goes up, as Mrs.
Trasco put it. King, by this time, was so worked up that he was
frothing. "Was there any evidence left behind at all?" Harpster
asked Mrs. Trasco (when we talked to Dick, he had spoken only to
Mrs. Trasco). "Well, John tried to grab one of them," she said
(another detail to be checked, since there was no other specific
statement indicating more than one creature), "and he got some
kind of green powder on his wrist, but it washed right off. He
found some under his fingernails the next day, too." There are
no houses on the road opposite the Trascos, and the houses on
either side of them were unoccupied.

The couple told no one of their experience, because "we knew no
one would believe us," except a sister-in-law, through whom the
story probably reached the newspaper. The sister-in-law had
attended a meeting conducted by Howard Menger about a year
before; but the Trascos had not been at all impressed by her
report on Menger; in fact, they take only the mildest interest
in even such things as Sputnik. In the same issue of the News
that printed their story appeared an editorial that scoffed at
the entire report.

Says Mrs. Trasco: "If it happens again I'll probably get right
in the car and go away from this place." To Mr. Harpster she
added, "But I told John, we should have let them take King. He's
half-blind and so cross I don't know who else would ever want
him." Says Dick Harpster: "I just haven't been able to think of
one reason for not believing them." One final detail: the night
after the visit, two lights shone over the house. Mrs. Trasco
says, "they didn't move, as the lights of an airplane do." They
lingered for a while, then disappeared without a trace.


Jerry Clark








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

                Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 18:14:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 14:17:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Miller


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:44:14 -0700
>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:36:12 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

><snip>

>>>Subject: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>>Source: Pravda

>>>http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/12624_Holes.html

>>>04-26-04

>>>"Black Holes" Devour People >>Pravda

><snip>

>Hi Ray:

>The source is "Pravda" recall. Somebody wrote in recently that
>the 'Pravda' name, domain and website was ripped off by (yet
>another) Russian entrepreneur who had little or no real
>authority or claim to the proper name of the old Soviet rag.

>Somewhat more interesting, and if memory serves, is that
>somebody dug thru British military records and found that there
>was no such mysterious disappearance in the first place!

>If someone wants to look that up, it would be appreciated.
>Personally, I thing the Vanished Regiment belongs in the
>Jackalope file.


Larry,

In it's final edition, March 2004, UFO Magazine (UK) carried an
article by David Clarke on the Norfolk Regiment - the Vanished
Battalion, and of course you are right - it never happened. God
save me for saying this but Clarke has a new book out on Second
World War mysteries that explains all this plus other cases.

In it's February 2004 edition, UFO mag carried a piece on the
rock with the electric pins attached. As part of the article, it
carried a copy of an advertisement from some unamed company on
Outdoor Rockspeakers, and it was suggested that this rock was
one of these devices. According to the ad, the rocks blend
easily into any landscape and are of course weatherproof. It
goes on to suggest that they are ideal for listening to music
while working in the yard, relaxing outdoors, entertaining
guests at garden and barbeque parties, or relaxing at the
cottage! Sigh, or as you might say, burp. A freaking singing
rock.

Makes you think though, considering where it was found. Anyone
ever reported "voices" in the middle of the desert?


Stuart Miller








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 1

               Stellarton, Nova Scotia - Barbell Shaped Object

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 10:27:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 14:19:20 -0400
Subject: Stellarton, Nova Scotia - Barbell Shaped Object


Stellarton, Nova Scotia
Date: April 30, 2004
Time: 10:10 pm

Location of Sighting: Inside car ontop of Fraser Mountain
Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 1
Shape of objects: Barbell, two bright flashing lights with a
very long and slender middle horizontally.

Full Description of event/sighting: I saw an object as we were
heading up Fraser Mountain in New Glasgow, Nova Scotia. Me and
my one passenger on my left side were almost to the peak of the
road when I noticed a large shining light to my left. I asked my
passenger "what the heck is that thing?". They responded with "I
don't know?". We pulled over and viewed the object with two
very bright lights, whiteish blue, flashing on an offset pattern
horizontally from one another with no visible shape in the
middle and flying very quickly and at a very low altitude coming
towards us. It was at about 10:10 p.m. EST and was very clear
and dark night with a few stars out.

We turned around in a drive way and started to ascend down the
mountain. I pulled over and looked back and the object was a
minimum of 300 meters off the ground at the peak of the mountain
hovering with both lights now staying on at the same time very
brightly. We then drove away quickly to the bottom of the hill
and turned right. This was 5 minutes into the viewing. I asked
"where is it?" but it was nowhere in sight. Twenty seconds later
as we were driving towards Melmerby Beach Road I saw the object
again, both lights flashing offset again coming towards us at a
very low altitude and quite rapidly. I have no idea how the
object got from the top of the mountain to in front of us in
that short amount of time and with such grace. I periodically
asked my passenger " are you seeing this?", "do you believe
this?".

We turned into a road on the left to park to again view the
object coming towards us it was getting larger and larger, the
closer it came. Both lights were now flashing at the same time
and both were still bluish white. This was viewed in a heavily
populated residential area but no other vehicles or people were
visible to us. It was about 1000 meters away now and I turned
left to go down the Melmerby Road back towards Fraser Mountain.
I looked back, the two lights now vertical from one another (one
on top of the other with a space in between of darkness) as it
the object went straight up in the air. The radio began to
crackle at this time. This was about 8 minutes into the viewing.
We took a right and were in downtown New Glasgow and then took
another right and were on the road heading towards the power
station in Trenton. This is about 10 minutes after we first saw
the object, we both looked to our right in the sky and the
object was now visible in the sky at a quite low altitude. Once
again the blueish white lights were flashing offset they were
horizontal from one another again with the shape in the middle
not visible. As we drove down this road both me and the
passenger rolled down our windows and there was no noise
whatsoever. The object slowed to a halt, it flipped vertically
so the lights were now one on top of one another and for the
first time we saw a very smooth, grayscale shape in the middle
not very wide at all, like a dumbbell. The object the fly away
very quickly and that was the last we saw of it. The viewing
ended at about 10:23 PM EST.


Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 2

                         Caverns Measureless To Man

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 10:24:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 10:05:03 -0400
Subject: Caverns Measureless To Man


FWD [forteana] Re: Caverns Measureless to Man

Lawrie wrote:

>Where do the abductors come from?

>All sorts of origins have been proposed - interstellar
>(Zeta Reticuli, Pleiades, Sirius, etc.), intra-solar
>system (Venus, Moon, Mars, Europa, Titan etc) and
>Earthly. Tradition has it that the dark elves,
>kobolds, goblins, etc., come from underground. This
>poses difficulties, there does not seem much down
>there in the way of habitat, unless one pays heed to
>the testimony of the green children.There is one
>possible answer. It is based on recent work done by
>geologists studying continental drift and the
>formation of the continents.

>Once upon a time there may have been no continents.
>But stuff fell down from space and got spewed up from
>underneath. As the thin oceanic crust moved around it
>scraped up this mess and piled it up and compressed
>it. This was lighter than the oceanic crust so it
>floated on top, and so the continents were born. Stuff
>that washed into the seas got scraped together again.
>More gunk like fish poo and tiny skeletons went to the
>sea bed to be mushed up in their turn and added to the
>growing continents.

>The scraping up is done where oceanic crust slowly but
>steadily moves under the continental crust. This is
>called the subduction zone. The jumbled and compressed
>mush is called melange. The place where the melange
>collects along the subduction zone is called the
>accretionary wedge.

>Sea mounts can get in the way of an accretionary wedge
>causing it to break off what it is doing and start
>somewhere else. For example that is how Turkey left
>Africa and became part of Eurasia. And if that does
>not happen, then the sea mount slowly rides down the
>escalator as the mounting forces slice off big chunks
>and incorporate it into the melange. But the big base
>of the mountain can go down pushing stuff aside and
>with melange collapsing into the space left behind.
>Other activity goes on - under enormous pressure mud
>is forced up through the cracks that form during these
>events.

>Most of Europe is made up of melange. So are big areas
>of Asia. About 20% of the continents are definitely
>melange, the rest is too old to know what it was. This
>is based on "Eat Your Crusts" pp 42-45 of 10 Feb 2001
>"New Scientist".

>"Continental breakfast" will never mean the same, huh?

>It has occurred to me that long after the subduction
>is over the melange will become geologically stable.
>And big areas are likely to settle creating giant
>underground caverns. Some might have been kept
>inflated by mud or steam or water or ice. Some of
>these within the mountains might now be vacant and
>filled with air filtering through.

>Could these be habitats for underground dwelling
>beasties?

>Lawrie  so gladioli got a chance to tell you
>about this


Dear Lawrie,

You may be interested in getting ahold of the book that I
reviewed in the June 2001 issue of FATE magazine. Caverns,
Cauldrons and Concealed Creatures by William Michael Mott
(Yoakum, TX: Hidden Mysteries, 2000). Mike Mott, the Listowner
of Fantasticreality, has done a lot of research in  support of a
hypothesis of the origin of the abductors quite similar to
yours. I give you below my FATE review of Mott's book on the
diverse weird denizens of those caverns measureless to Man.


Regards,

T. Peter Park

---

CAVERNS, CAULDRONS AND CONCEALED CREATURES
by William Michael Mott:

A Review by T. Peter Park for FATE Magazine

William Michael Mott, a freelance artist and writer who has
researched Fortean and paranormal phenomena for over 20 years,
has published an encyclopedic overview of humankind's mysterious
hidden neighbors right here on planet Earth.

In Caverns, Cauldrons, and Concealed Creatures, Mott has combed
mythology and folklore throughout the world, the Bible and
Apocrypha, modern science-fiction and fantasy literature, and
contemporary UFO, abduction, and monster reports for evidence
that Homo sapiens throughout its history has been exploited by
hidden underground races with a passion for interbreeding and
creating hybrids. These races, which are strictly of terrestrial
origin, are responsible for ancient, medieval, and modern
legends and reports of all manner of strange beings and
creatures. The author here echoes writers like John A. Keel,
Jacques Vallee, Janet and Colin Bord, and Patrick Harpur, who
have likewise compared modern UFO, abduction, and mysterious
animal reports to each other and to traditional folklore
beliefs, suggesting a continuity between fairies, UFOnauts, and
mystery beasts.

Human history and culture are full of long-standing tales of
firsthand encounters with mysterious others. They are not human
beings, though most of them are somewhat human looking (or
apelike), and though most of them have a compulsion to
interbreed with us or steal our genetic material. They often
break natural laws, or the laws of physics, thus seeming to be
supernatural, as much like ghosts or spirits as flesh-and-blood
creatures.

These beings, existing at the periphery of our awareness, have
gone by a great variety of names. Traditionally, they have been
variously called fairies, elves, trolls, goblins, brownies,
leprechauns, djinn, ifrits, vampires, incubi, succubi,
werewolves, mermaids, etc. More recently, they have been called
Greys, reptoids or reptilian aliens, Nordic aliens, hairy
humanoids, Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, chupacabras, Lizard-Men,
the West Virginia Mothman, the Men in Black, etc. Some are
relatively human-looking, some look like hairy hominids or
apemen, and some have a scaly, reptilian, frog-like or lizard-
like look.

While some of these seem to have more substantial basis in
physical reality than others, Mott believes that a close
examination of the accounts reveals that, not only are all such
entities interrelated, but also that they come from a
subterranean cavern and tunnel world that has largely been
ignored or dismissed as fantasy. They come from this underground
and undersea realm of our own planet, and not from another
planet, galaxy, dimension, or vibratory level. The creatures of
this alternate reality are both furtive and  parasitical,
demonstrating their intrinsic hostility toward us.

Their parasitism on us, says Mott, is above all sexual, genetic,
and reproductive. They have a tremendous need to interbreed with
us and to appropriate our genetic material. Mott deduces the
need that these creatures have for fresh human genetic material
from child-snatching and changeling legends about fairies and
their habit of stealing human children, stories like
Rumpelstiltskin and the Pied Piper of Hamelin, and tales of the
sexual assaults of succubi, incubi, and demon lovers. And then
there are the modern UFO abduction reports with their
reproduction-experiment and hybridization accounts. Ugly Frog
Princes and beautiful Fairy Princesses have their parallels in
the hideous Reptoids and handsome Nordics reported by modern
abductees. The fascination of UFO aliens with reproduction,
interbreeding, and sexuality, from the Villas-Boas and Barney
and Betty Hill cases onward, is one sign of their obsession with
interbreeding with us. Modern cattle mutilations are identical
to the traditionally reported fairy interest in cattle.

Mott has produced a fascinating, informative, groundbreaking work.

- T. Peter Park
June 2001, FATE Magazine

-----

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul

Home Page:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 2

                Re: 1957 Everittstown New Jersey CE3 Claim -

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 15:24:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 10:21:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 1957 Everittstown New Jersey CE3 Claim -


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <UFOUpdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 11:31:20 -0500
>Subject: 1957 Everittstown New Jersey CE3 Claim

<snip>

>I have had some recent correspondence with the highly regarded
>but long-retired ufologist Ted Bloecher, who was active with
>Civilian Saucer Intelligence, New York, in the late 1950s, when
>the Everittstown, New Jersey, CE3 claim - the subject of
>discussion recently on this List - occurred. We discussed the
>case, which we both view as suspiciously atypical; there is also
>at least one possibly significant contradiction in it. Ted was
>kind enough to provide me with a copy of CSI's article on the
>incident, from CSI Newsletter #10, December 15, 1957, p. 14.
>Here it is, for what it's worth:


Jerry, et. al:

An edited audio interview of John Trasco is available on the
data MP3 disc, "Ufology: A Primer in Audio - 1938 to 1959". It
is recording number 78.

This recording is from Jules St. Germain's collection. Entire
copies of the interview with Mr. and Mrs. Trasco are available.

Please contact me for particulars.


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 2

               Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 21:48:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 10:22:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Maccabee


>From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"


>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:30:38 -0400
>>Subject: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>Source: Pravda

>>http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/12624_Holes.html

>>04-26-04

>>"Black Holes" Devour People
>>Pravda

>>A group of 150 people disappeared within one minute

<snip>

>Everyone here may be aware of this, but some may not:

>Pravda.ru is not the real Pravda newspaper website. Pravda (the
>old communist newspaper) hasn't existed for a decade, and
>therefore does not even have a website.

>The editor of the fake Pravda website, Wadim Gorshenin, was a
>former employee of the real Pravda (writer? janitor?), but the
>former editor of the real Pravda, Aleksandr Ilyin, has tried to
>stop the fake Pravda from using the name of the real Pravda - so
>far unsuccessfully.

>The fake Pravda trades on the name of the former newspaper, but
>has no relation to it (or to actual news reporting for that
>matter). It is just one of those fake-news entertainment
>tabloids, but with a name you'd remember.


Pravda is Russian for "truth".

LOL

The "new Pravda" is about as truthful as the Weekly World News.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 2

                 Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 22:01:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 10:25:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hatch


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 18:14:23 +0100
>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:44:14 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:36:12 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

<snip>

>>>>Subject: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"
>>>>Source: Pravda
>>>>http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/12624_Holes.html
>>>>04-26-04

>>>>"Black Holes" Devour People >>Pravda

<snip>

>>The source is "Pravda" recall. Somebody wrote in recently that
>>the 'Pravda' name, domain and website was ripped off by (yet
>>another) Russian entrepreneur who had little or no real
>>authority or claim to the proper name of the old Soviet rag.

>>Somewhat more interesting, and if memory serves, is that
>>somebody dug thru British military records and found that there
>>was no such mysterious disappearance in the first place!

>>If someone wants to look that up, it would be appreciated.
>>Personally, I thing the Vanished Regiment belongs in the
>>Jackalope file.

>In it's final edition, March 2004, UFO Magazine (UK) carried an
>article by David Clarke on the Norfolk Regiment - the Vanished
>Battalion, and of course you are right - it never happened. God
>save me for saying this but Clarke has a new book out on Second
>World War mysteries that explains all this plus other cases.

>In it's February 2004 edition, UFO mag carried a piece on the
>rock with the electric pins attached. As part of the article, it
>carried a copy of an advertisement from some unamed company on
>Outdoor Rockspeakers, and it was suggested that this rock was
>one of these devices. According to the ad, the rocks blend
>easily into any landscape and are of course weatherproof. It
>goes on to suggest that they are ideal for listening to music
>while working in the yard, relaxing outdoors, entertaining
>guests at garden and barbeque parties, or relaxing at the
>cottage! Sigh, or as you might say, burp. A freaking singing
>rock.

>Makes you think though, considering where it was found. Anyone
>ever reported "voices" in the middle of the desert?


Hi Stuart:

Aha! Singing rocks! Somehow I missed the connection. With 3
leads it could even be stereo perhaps.

That sounds like an interesting product, I'd like to see one.
Just think of the novel uses. It doesn't have to be music, it
could chirp like a bird or make barnyard noises. It could keep
the neighborhood cat occupied for hours. A loudspeaker! I just
didn't think of that at all. The connecting cable could be
easily masked off with leaves and whatnot, buried in the dirt
maybe.

It could make a little speech from time to time, how boring it
is to be a rock etc., it could boast about its life-span.

I'd like to know more about how it works. A loudspeaker and a
rock are (usually) very different things.


Best and thanks

- Larry







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 3

                Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 18:55:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:08:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Miller


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 22:01:42 -0700
>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 18:14:23 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

><snip>

>>In it's February 2004 edition, UFO mag carried a piece on the
>>rock with the electric pins attached. As part of the article, it
>>carried a copy of an advertisement from some unamed company on
>>Outdoor Rockspeakers, and it was suggested that this rock was
>>one of these devices. According to the ad, the rocks blend
>>easily into any landscape and are of course weatherproof. It
>>goes on to suggest that they are ideal for listening to music
>>while working in the yard, relaxing outdoors, entertaining
>>guests at garden and barbeque parties, or relaxing at the
>>cottage! Sigh, or as you might say, burp. A freaking singing
>>rock.

>>Makes you think though, considering where it was found. Anyone
>>ever reported "voices" in the middle of the desert?

>Aha! Singing rocks! Somehow I missed the connection. With 3
>leads it could even be stereo perhaps.

>That sounds like an interesting product, I'd like to see one.
>Just think of the novel uses. It doesn't have to be music, it
>could chirp like a bird or make barnyard noises. It could keep
>the neighborhood cat occupied for hours. A loudspeaker! I just
>didn't think of that at all. The connecting cable could be
>easily masked off with leaves and whatnot, buried in the dirt
>maybe.

>It could make a little speech from time to time, how boring it
>is to be a rock etc., it could boast about its life-span.

>I'd like to know more about how it works. A loudspeaker and a
>rock are (usually) very different things.


Larry,

On further inspection of both the article and advert, it would
appear that the supplier is, dare I say it, a Canadian company
called MP Sales and Distribution. I cannot find a web site for
them. And one speaker costs $149.99 US (why don't they just say
150 bucks).

The possibilities are indeed endless. If you ever do conferences
for example Larry, you could take it on stage and have it sit
next to you, perhaps joining in when you want to make a
particular point.

Or it could just offer good old fashioned companionship if you
are lonely. Unlike a dog, your rock can speak. If you have wild
theories that you think would be laughed off this List, you
could try them out on "Gavin" first and see what he thinks.

Or best of all Larry, you and and I could just get out a bit
more and get a proper life.


Stuart Miller








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 3

                Rense Show Tonight - Sonora California Family

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 21:47:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:21:09 -0400
Subject: Rense Show Tonight - Sonora California Family


Hi List,

I have recently reported on a family who has been going through
a lot. I've just posted a report and photos which I called:
Sonora, California - Family Under Siege!

http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1145

One of the family members will be appearing with me on the Jeff
Rense Show:

http://www.rense.com

Monday, May 3, 2004 at 7:00 p.m. PST to tell this story.

This experience involves the whole family, the mother, two sons
and a sister. All of them have scoop marks in the same place on
their bodies, not to mention other areas as well. They also have
been witness to a number of sightings over the years.

This will be a very interesting show, so I would suggest anyone
interested tunes in. I also am in touch with a good friend who
is checking her contacts so someone can visit these folks in
person to, hopefully, help.


Take care

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 3

               Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 01:45:10 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:25:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Gates


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:13:32 -0700
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

<snip>

>As one of the whacko speakers at the X-Conference, having had a
>serious childhood interest in this subject, being open to new
>ideas, yet trying to ground myself in the fuzzy, factual world
>we all find it necessary to deal with, I must add my 2 cents
>even though I cannot compete with your prose, Alfred.

>I was favorably impressed with Corso Sr. when I met him in 1997
>and had dinner table conversations with him, but I was dismayed
>when I heard him support the Carlos Diaz story now known to be a
>fraud. But that was a mild disappointment compared to hearing
>the diatribe uttered by Jr. at the X-Conference. I don't mean to
>be harsh, but Corso Jr. in expounding on the details of the
>Roswell craft after passing out illustrations of the Testor
>model made it clear to all that it was he who built the craft in
>some uncertain future which then was launched through time from
>the year 2032 only to crash land in our year of 1947 and
>altering the timeline for one and all. While I do entertain
>theories of time travel, this exposition left me with the
>feeling that Corso Jr., who was asking support for his efforts,
>and relating his relationship to aviator Burt Rutan, was going
>to go down as the man who built the first time machine
>regardless of the fact that he gave me absolutely no confidence
>that he had any proficiency in engineering or physics. He simply
>said that many men had their Harley Davidson which they admired
>and this was his own private Harley Davidson!

>Roswell mystery solved: It was a time machine built and launched
>by Phil Corso Jr. This is a cogent reason among others to
>reaffirm my plans to retire from this field.


Listers,

What I expect to see is a Corso apologist instantly be telling
us how there is some thread of truth woven through the alleged
tale told by Junior, and why we shouldn't discard the story
(even though nothing can be proven, or no evidence is
forthcoming) because this is part of the Greater Corso
revelation, blah blah blah, don't forget the supposed thread of
truth, blah blah...


Cheers,

Robert








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 3

                 Sightings & Experiences In British Columbia

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 23:17:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 15:09:43 -0400
Subject: Sightings & Experiences In British Columbia


Sightings & Experiences In British Columbia

Received: May 3, 2004

Date: Various
Time: Various
Location of Sighting: Various
Number of witnesses: 1-8
Number of objects: 2-15
Shape of objects: Round.

Full Description of event/sighting: I grew up in Maple Ridge. At
ten, I dreamed of finding myself walking from a wooded area into
a small community, which I later recognized as Alice Lake, near
Whistler, when I became an adult. Before reaching it, I found
myself looking out of a large window, down onto where I'd been.
I was told many things, by telepathy, about my coming role as a
human recorder, by tall white haired people. They turned me over
to small humanoid people with huge eyes, the technicians, whose
minds were so alien, like bugs, I became terrified and passed
out. Later after midnight we were awakened by many large
military choppers shining their lights into our neighborhood,
like they were looking for something. Everyone came out to
watch. I've had a lump on the area of my medulla oblongata (my
neck) since then.

At around 2:00 a.m., after a school dance, at 16, I was the last
left waiting for my parents to pick me up. While waiting, I saw
two red balls of light in the east, which I'd thought were
stars, begin to move in different directions at great speeds,
turning sharp angles. One found a new position slightly in
front, at high noon. The other hovered then lowered out of sight
behind trees directly west of me.

When returning from a walk with a friend at 30, in Deep Cove,
Vancouver, we paused in a grove of trees in a very populated
neighborhood. We paused because shimmering ovals, around 3 feet
in length, and in red, blue, green and yellow, were spinning
around us. My friend confirmed what I was seeing. They traveled
ccw on the horizontal, then changed to cw on the vertical, with
us as the center point. When vertical, they had to pass under
us. They reduced in size to about the size of a pea, then,
except for one blue one, shrank to disappear. The blue one
followed us to our door. Since then, I've noticed these tiny
lights around some people.

When camping with about 8 friends on a river in Port Renfrew, at
35, after the kids were in bed, we all sat around a low fire, to
gaze at the stars, which were very numerous. We all started to
notice that besides a few airplanes and a couple satellites,
that there was a lot of other traffic which flew in sharp angles
at speeds faster than the planes or satellites. They looked like
bright red balls, which could have been the ships' lighting.

I consider it important that my son described and was terrified
of monsters visiting him at night, and now, at 9 years old, is
still terrified when images of big-eyed aliens show up on TV.
 He runs crying whenever the movie ET is advertised on TV.

I have found overnight puncture marks on myself and my children,
which gradually fade away. My daughter (2) has one black scar
between her lumbar vertebrae, I've found two red puncture marks
on my neck and on my leg. The leg punctures ended up getting
really swollen, itchy and infected, creating a bruise the whole
thickness and length of my thigh. My children and I have each
woken up, sometimes at the same time, with fearful feelings that
there is something in the house, that something keeps returning.
I've been awoken with light filling an area of a room, or
outside my window, where none should be. I've had a dream of
tall flimsy aliens (again in primary colors) on another planet
with two or three suns or visible moons, of another planet like
an unpopulated forested earth, of other furry dark aliens
handling my son as a baby.

I also had a drowning, out-of-body experience where I saw
excorporate beings working with relatively unconscious corporate
beings on earth, and on several other worlds.

When viewing videos of the balls of light over crop circles, I
recognized them as being very similar to the balls of light that
I'd seen.

Most of my experiences predate any viewings of the now popular
TV aliens, which suspiciously seems like disinformation. The
meaning of my dreams seems to be that these aliens have been and
still are involved in some kind of evolution or stepping stone
of our species.

In trying to research UFOs (like project bluebook) during
childhood, I became aware of the skepticism and ridicule faced
by witnesses. So I've never reported any of these incidences,
though it seems like every second person I meet has had similar
experiences. Because I'm a year away from a Ph.D. in Education,
I won't jeopardize my position by sharing my story, by name.
I'll just keep watching and try and figure out what's really
happening.

Thank you to the person for sending the report along to me.


Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 3

                    UFO Over Capilla del Monte Argentina

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 06:20:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 15:11:41 -0400
Subject: UFO Over Capilla del Monte Argentina


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
May 3, 2004


SOURCE: Proyecto Catent (Argentina)
DATE: 05.03.04

Argentina: UFO Over Capilla Del Monte

At 22:05 hours on May 2, 2004, a resident of Barrio Las Gemelas
in Capilla del Monte contacted the CATENT group to report the
transit of a yellow light that was reflected on the treetops and
traveling in an East-West direction, that is to say, from the
Sierras toward Dique El Caj=F3n, at an estimated elevation of 150
meters above ground and without making any noise whatsoever. The
caller's parents were also witnesses to this event.

Townspeople tend to comment quite often on these cases, and they
are so many and so numerous that they are often not passed on to
information lists.

Last week, on Wednesday, April 28, researcher Hector Picco
remarked that he had seen a small white light coming from the
sierras and vanishing into the rocky floor of an empty piece of
property adjacent to his home.

A local fisherman said that in the year 1983, while on his way
to a fishing trip with some friends in Dique Los Alazanes (in
the region of La Toma), he had seen a UFO with several lights
that moved below mountain level between the Uritorco and the
Overo [hills]. This case predates the famous Pajarillo
footprint.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Proyecto Catent







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 3

                      Chupacabras In Providencia Chile

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 06:43:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 15:14:49 -0400
Subject: Chupacabras In Providencia Chile


SOURCE: Diario La Tercera (Chile)
DATE: April 30, 2004

CHUPACABRAS IN PROVIDENCIA?

A group of workers made a strange discovery: they came across three
carcasses of a strange animal while they worked at a house located on
Calle Condell in the commune of Providencia. The three skeletons at
first sight are reminiscent of the image of the feared "chupacabras".

"All three were the same, without any front legs. We were told to
dispose of them, but we were stunned and are still confused...they
can't be rabbits by their shape: the teeth, the long legs and the
fact that they lack hands," said one of the workers to Chilevision
Noticias.
The animals have skulls similar to a cat's, fifteen ribs, large fangs
separated by a one centimeter gap and only two hind legs.

"We'd all like this to be a chupacabras or the offspring of a
chupacabras. I'd be famous, but I don't know if that would be the
case," said the worker.

The skeletons will be examined by  veterinarians of the University of
Chile.

================================================================

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic
Ufology Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                                "UFO Planet"

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:00:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 08:49:08 -0400
Subject: "UFO Planet"


Hello List,

This came in from NASA Science News today, with the subject as
shown above (UFO Planet):

NASA Science News for May 3, 2004

The planet Venus, so bright it is often mistook for an alien
spaceship, reaches maximum brilliancy this week. Through a small
telescope or a good pair of binoculars, Venus looks like a
beautiful crescent.

Full story at:

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/03may_maximumvenus.htm?list159275


Science.nul stories are available in Spanish at our sister site:

Ciencia.nul <http://ciencia.nasa.gov/>.

****

With that subject title and the reference to "an alien
spaceship", one might ask with a wink, "Is this a, de facto,
NASA admission that UFOs are alien spaceships, but telling us
not to mistake Venus for one"? :)

In truth, it would be unwise to read anything into it. I'm
confident 'disclosure' is not what the writer had as an
intention.


Ray Stanford







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                            Greer Dreary Non-News

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 14:23:14 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:34:01 -0400
Subject: Greer Dreary Non-News


UFO-disclosure advocate Steven M. Greer, M.D., recently penned
an essay ("Media Play") outlining his case against what he calls
"Big Media's" collusion with the decades-long government cover-
up of UFO reality. He pronounces: "Shills in the Big Media are
the central reason why the truth about many matters of great
importance will never be told. Sure they will tell you about a
titillating scandal, or about a tax cut, or a bombing. But get
close to stories related to real power, and these Big Media
hacks will run the other way."

Dr. Greer's Big Media assessment/indictment certainly echoes
some other researchers' sentiments about why this planet's
corporately owned/operated news media have chosen, and continue
to choose, to ignore most opportunities to help the public set
the record straight on UFO reality.

Indeed, perhaps they have some additional reasons for choosing
not to rock (too much) the UFOboat's status quo -- e.g.:

* Laziness. Since, in practical terms, the overly marginalized
and maligned subject of UFOlogy lends itself to only cursory
examination by the press, why should editors and reporters make
any special effort to help shift the paradigm?

* Arrogance. When a group of Operation Right-to-Know activists
picketed the Washington Post's headquarters several years ago
with their demands that the newspaper reform its desultory,
demeaning coverage of UFO-related events, they gained the
following (tacit) insight: "If any of the reported UFO
encounters truly represent hardware from elsewhere, we at the
Post would be the first to know about it; that we have no such
first-hand knowledge means that no-one else does, either."
Multiply that inflated self-view of the world by the hundreds of
news-gathering/publishing organizations, and you can imagine
just how powerful (and addictive) such a policy of arrogant
denial can be throughout Mediaville.

* Professional insecurity due to fear of being lobbyied and/or
hoaxed. Media moguls have an expensive image to maintain and
protect in their dealings with the public. None want to
jeopardize that image by falling prey to axe-grinding Crusaders
for UFOtruth, or to the machinations of UFO-exploiting
charlatans bent on hoaxing anyone who fails to do his UFOlogical
homework.

Although this expanded rationale for Big Media's obvious
reluctance to acknowledge (and engage) their readers'/viewers'
thirst for UFO-truth offers us little hope for reform, it does
allow us a confirmatory peek behind their Curtain of Denial.
Will this knowledge, in the long run, afford us more incentive
and stamina in our quest for reform?

-----

See:

http://www.disclosureproject.org/mediaplay.htm

--ebk






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                        Cambridge Ontario - 05-01-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 09:25:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:52:45 -0400
Subject: Cambridge Ontario - 05-01-04


Cambridge, Ontario (Looking towards Acton)

Date:  May 1, 2004
Time:  Approx: 8:30 p.m.

HBCC UFO Research note: The report I received from the witness
has been passed along to Mike Bird who will be meeting with the
witness to see if he can figure out what they are observing.
Also when Mike visits the witness he will view some footage
which has be taken of the light/object.

Another call came in from a fellow who again witnessed something
that looked out of place in the sky and he also shot some
footage of what he witnessed. The man and his wife had some
family members over to their home. The witness had been telling
his sisters boyfriend about what they saw on April 24, 2004. The
witnesses sisters boyfriend looked out the window and commented,
"it wouldn't be the light on the tower over there?"

The witness said, what tower !

The witness looked out the window and there again was something
flying around the sky. There is no tower in the area where the
sisters boyfriend was pointing out.

This time the witness grabbed his video camera and started to
take some footage. Now he admits that he is a ammeter
photographer and just doing his best to get a shot of what they
were observing in the sky. With the excitement of seeing
something strange he admits there is shake when viewing the
footage, but all of the family members who watched the film says
it is very interesting to watch and the fellow still gets the
shot.

There was no multiple lights seen this time, only one object
that shoots off at a fast rate of speed across the sky. The man
who is filming this object, puts the camera down for a brief
second as he was discussing what he was seeing with his sisters
boyfriend. When he looked up again, the light/object was back
where it originally was, or when the witness first saw it. Like
the man said, it seemed impossible for something to move so
quickly across the sky and return to the  spot from where it
came from.

When viewing the tape back at a slow speed the fellow says you
can almost see the outline of the thing, the classic saucer
shaped craft. Also still viewing the tape on the slow speed they
tell me you can see a burst of  color, purple pinkish.

We will see what the investigator who will be visiting the
witnesses comes up with.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

One thing I would like to add. It was quick thinking that the
witness thought to grab his video camera. I would suggest that
folks keep a camera of some sort with them, or close by. One
never knows when something like this will happen to them.


Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Home Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com Redirect:
http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                            Hall Progress Report

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 21:35:11 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:54:24 -0400
Subject: Hall Progress Report


My detailed study of the 1966-67 UFO sighting wave sponsored by
the Fund for UFO Research has been delayed due to various word
processing glitches, but is well along now and will be about
135-140 pages long. Look for publication some time this summer.
Even I am surprised at how powerful it is in refuting the
skeptibunkers. After 45-50 years, you forget details about some
of the earlier years until you review the files.

Subscriptions have been coming in at an encouraging rate for
the Journal of UFO History, and issue No. 2 is now in
preparation. I will be interviewing major players in UFO history
for a regular feature, printing historical documents and
photographs, and tapping into my 50 years worth of files for all
sorts of data that most of the current crop of highly
opinionated pontificators know nothing about. They tend to think
that the world began when they were born.


 - Dick







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                     Re: Filers Files #19 - 2004 - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 17:24:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:14:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Filers Files #19 - 2004 - Oberg


>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:16:43 EDT
>Subject: Filers Files #19 - 2004

>UFOs Watch ISS Space Walk

>Jeff Chandler writes that he was closely following the ISS Space
>Walk on February 25, 2004, when the astronauts made the
>following comments. Cosmonaut Alexander 'Sasha' Kaleri (Crew
>Flight Engineer) states, "So, dinosaurs are needed here. You
>can't do-can't do anything without them."

<snip>

>in his own words, to Cosmonaut Kaleri these "Dinosaurs"
>came as a great AND unwelcome, surprise. Why? As stated earlier
>in this examination, all aspects of the EVA should have been
>extremely familiar. Yet, Kaleri expresses surprise and dismay
>that "Dinosaurs" should be present. Mission control advises him
>to accept them, and Commander Foale seems to feel obligated to
>make up some cover story. High strangeness indeed....



Re the report posted at www.georgefiler.com/ "Weekly files" Views, and

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/apr/m28-017.shtml

You can read more of Jeff's vivid (if warped) dinosaurian
imagination on his website details at:

http://projectprove.com/SashasDinosaurs.htm

An old friend of mine in Mission Control chuckled: "I know this
is not as sexy as a UFO, or some other space related conspiracy,
but the 'dinosaurs' that the crew is referring to are Russian
built EVA cutters, nicknamed "dino-cutters" due to their shape.
As I can recall, they got their name back on STS-106/2A.2b. They
used to cut small wire-ties and lanyards."

He even sent me a few photographs, if anybody wants them, email
me at joberg at Houston dot rr dot com.

An astronaut friend whose actually used these agrees: "I bet it
is the plier like cutter hand tool whose name is almost the same
as the Russian word for dinosaur (48=>702.nul)[dinozavrik)."

It would help if Jeff, or Filer's Files, had the slightest clue
how the space-to-ground comm links work through TDRSS (i.e., it
does NOT use ground sites such as Hawaii), but Jeff has amply
demostrated over the years that he doesn't, and cluelessness is
plenty good enough for FilersFiles. Even so, DINOSAURS is a
stretch of brontosaurus neck length.....


James Oberg







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                 Re: Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:44:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:25:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:25:49 -0700
>Subject: Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist Intellectuals

>Hard Questions For Forteans: Forteans As Populist Intellectuals
>(A Meta-Fortean Probe)

>by T. Peter Park <tpeterpark.nul>

>"By the damned, I mean the excluded" - Charles Hoy Fort, 'The
>Book of the Damned'

>Are Forteans courageous, independent-minded free spirits bravely
>defying dogma, orthodoxy, convention, and "political
>correctness" by uncovering unpopular, astonishing, even
>frightening truths covered up by the "Establishment"? Or are
>they rather resentful, poorly educated malcontents simply
>expressing a sour-grapes populist class envy of polyester
>against Harris tweed, Coors and Coke against Merlot and Perrier,
>cheeseburgers and pizza against quiche and croissants, chili
>against pesto, SUV's and pickups against Volvos and Volkswagens,
>community colleges against the Ivy League, hunters against
>ecologists, the American Legion against the Sierra Club, "four-
 >square Americanism" against "political correctness," talk radio
>against the "liberal media"?

Personally, I am courageous, etc. but I would take Merlot and
Perrier, Mercedes or Rolls whenever possible. (Not likely based
on my bank account, however.) And I admit to some guilt but that
doesn't make me completely "politically correct."


>Forteans see themselves as the former -

Yes, Yes Hooray for Forteans!

> but sometimes give
>"Establishment" and "cultural elite" types the impression
>(rightly or wrongly) of being the latter.

Unfortunately, correct... assuming that one can attach the term
"Fortean" to "resentful,poorly educated malcontents" who
don't/may not/probably don't understand what Fortean arguments
are about (to understand requires considerable knowledge!). To
be a Fortean it isn't sufficient just to reject conventional
scientific knowledge or conventional wisdom because it is
inconvenient or "unbelievble" or "based on authority"
(statements by assumed authority figures). There must be some
reason for rejection.

=46rom UFO investigation I find that often "poorly educated
malcontents" reject the conventional science dictum that UFOs
don't exist, but not because they reject authority. It is,
rather, because they have seen one (or believe they have) and
then find that conventional science says they are crazy (or
hoaxers or whatever). Having seen a UFO they become autodidacts
- they start reading books to try to understand what they saw.
Often they are well read to begin with, but not in the field of
ufology, which they prevously (to the sighting) passed off as
the realm of wackos, nuts and other fruitcakes.

They may spread their distrust of conventional knowledge
to other fields:

If conventional science says there are no UFOs ("But I saw
one!"), then what about bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, fairies,
angels, face on Mars, etc., that "science authorities" say don't
exist?

Their distrust may question the non-conspiracy stance of
conventional knowledge: what if some Ufologists think that the
government knows but isn't telling... isn't that a conspiracy?
And if a real UFO sighting (at least in the mind of the witness)
leads one to believe in one government conspiracy, why not
believe in some more conspiracies (M. Monroe and Jack Kennedy
were killed to prevent them from revealing UFO secrets; the
Trilateral commission, in league with the aliens, is taking over
the world, the aliens can hardly wait to start "Serving Man";
and then there are the Bilderbergers, the Protocols of the
Elders of Zion, etc. blah blah blah..)?

>Having a foot myself
>in both the Fortean and the "cultural elite" camps, I feel a
>personal investment in the question, and a concern about the
>impression some Forteans might make on "cultural elite" types.
>Can Forteans afford to ignore the impression they make? Don't
>they owe it to themselves to avoid "turning off" the "cultural
>elites" with an "Archie Bunker" or "Yahoo" image they may not
>really deserve? Many Forteans do know how to"put their best foot
f>orward"=A1but many others don't seem to know how, or maybe don't
>care.

So you have a problem wth "some Forteans." Not surprising. And
Doctors have a problem with "some quacks" and Astronomers have a
problem with "some astrologers." Geologists have a problem with
"some creationists" (young earth).

And so on.

Unfortunately no branch of knowledge or endeavor is going to be
devoid of the "hangers on" and the "poor representatives."
Therefore it is, rather, for the interested "cultural elites" to
look for the best in Forteana rather than concentrating on the
worst. In other words, unlike the conventional press which goes
for the throat whenever possible, the culteral elites who decide
to explore Forteana must use some judgement and give Forteana an
even break. I say the same to budding new "ufologists"... people
who are just getting their feet wet in the UFO or Forteana camp
(whether or not their other foot is in the elite camp)..... "Be
careful out there. Lots of potholes and ruts in the road to
knowledge. And the hucksters and purveyors of fake knowledge are
probably the loudest, most obvious sources of "information" that
you will find. Check and double check and don;t believe
everything you read, even after you have checked."

<snip>

>18th century garret scribblers resented the prestige and
>pretensions of the salon 'philosophes'. Since the late 19th
>century, a similarly under-appreciated underground of
>autodidacts has conducted a similar vendetta on the now
>successful, prestigious, and "mainstreamed" cultural descendants
>of the 18th century garret scribblers. They are cut off from the
>established "highbrow,"academic-scholarly, scientific, labor-
>union, adult-education,"mainline"-religious, or liberal
i>nstitutions, media, and communication channels of our time. The
li>terary, philosophical, and ideological descendants of the
g>arret scribblers are the 20th/21st century intellectual and
c>ultural "Establishment" - in effect the High Enlightenment
'>philosophes' of our time! They are now attacked by "lean and
>hungry" souls in an Electronic Age version of the 18th century
>garret underworld, using the Internet as their "cafe"!

>Or, are Forteans still something more than merely just that? I
>myself would certainly very much hope so!

Since you are talking about "Forteans" you are talkiing about
people. Strange thing about people. They don't fit into
"Procrustean Bed" classifications. One size does not fit all. So
there are some who fall within your classification of "garret
scribblers"..... and some (many?) who don't. We're stuck with
that fact.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                Re: Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:44:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:27:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe -


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:38:00 -0700
>Subject: Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe

>FWD [forteana] Two Forteanisms: Scientific Vs. Fringe - A "Meta-Fortean"
>Observation

>T. Peter <tpeterpark.nul>

>I believe there are two basic types of Forteans, espousing two
>distinct basic types of Forteanism or paranormalism. They are
>what I call fringe Forteans versus scientific Forteans.

This appears to be an excellent and erudite discourse on the
characterization of Forteana and Forteans (of which ufologists
could be considered as a subgroup). I thank Mr. Colvin for
posting it.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                     Re: Greer Dreary Non-News - Nelson

From: Barry Nelson <BARRYN789.nul>
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:53:16 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:47:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Dreary Non-News - Nelson


UFO history is replete with examples of how Big Media was, and
is, being co-opted by the military to discredit ufo publicity
seekers, crazies, and devout believers and experiencer's. In
fact, the goal of discrediting was put right into Operations,
like the Condon Report, and others.

But attacking the Media now is like attacking the so-called
Black Government. Nothing less than alien/ufo habeous corpus, or
the proverbial alien hand-shake with the President, will budge
the media's bias. Why? Because they dictate the stories, and how
that story will be edited, and "sold".

After reading UFO UpDates, SkyOpen, Skywatch, and others for
a while now, I believe we need a centralized UFO Media, as well
as an investigative "branch" that operats in the public, but
with private investigative abilities and resources. If there
truly is a Black Government, operating outside, and in parallel
with a public government, then an anti-Black Branch is needed,
funded by private citizens. And how many ufo enthusiasts,
believer's and experiencer's are out there? Supposedly, it's in
the millions.

And as far as Greer's message getting old, or "dreary", who's
goal is that? Isn't the goal of a psy-op to maintain closed
communication and info loops, and to discredit the leaks, or
turn them into lies? Isn't that the dreary you mean? That's not
Greer's fault, or something he has to fix. He's there to expose
it. What isn't dreary, and understated, especially by the UFO
media, is that Greer has not been discredited and run out of
business. Why is that? And isn't that a story to report on too?


B.
Michigan






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                   UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:14:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:14:26 -0400
Subject: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts




Source: SpaceDaily.Com

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html

TERRADAILY
UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

05-04-04

by Ben Bova
for Astrobiolgy Magazine
Moffett Field (SPX)

I believe that life exists beyond the Earth. I believe that
intelligent life must exist somewhere in the vast universe of
stars and galaxies. I recognize that there is, as yet, no
evidence to support this belief of mine.

Precisely because I am a "believer," in this sense, I remain
guardedly skeptical about claims of UFOs, alien abductions, and
ancient astronauts. It is all too easy to fall for unsupported
stories that tell us what we want to believe. I would like to
see some scrap of hard, palpable evidence; maybe as much as a
person would take to traffic court to prove he wasn't illegally
parked when he got a ticket.

I can relate three incidents in my own experience that have
shaped my attitude about UFOs: my own UFO sighting, a laboratory
analysis of a metal sample purportedly taken from a UFO, and an
encounter with the redoubtable Erich Von Daniken, author of
"Chariots of the Gods" and similar books.

My UFO sighting. I was having brunch with my family in the
restaurant atop the Prudential Tower in Boston. It was a
sparkling clear Sunday morning, and from our window-side seat we
could see all the way out to the hills of New Hampshire.
Suddenly I noticed, off on that distant horizon, a small red
aircraft darting back and forth at impossible speeds, making
maneuvers no human airplane could make. A UFO! I thought.

Fortunately, there was an observation deck one floor below the
restaurant. I raced down and trained one of the telescopes there
on the UFO. It turned out to be a child's kite. With no way to
judge its true distance, my mind assumed at first that it was on
the horizon. At that distance, its stunts and speeds were
phenomenal. At the distance of a few blocks away, it was quite
normal.

A laboratory analysis. When I was the editor of Omni magazine,
we worked hard to track down UFO stories. They always somehow
vanished into smoke and air. One day a gentleman came into my
office bearing a sliver of metal that, he claimed, had been
scraped from the hull of a flying saucer. "It's unlike any metal
on Earth," he kept repeating.

It struck me and the rest of the editorial staff that it might
be pretty difficult to scratch off a sliver of such a metal. We
suggested that we take it to a reputable metallurgy laboratory
for analysis. The visitor was very reluctant to do so. At last,
after several hours, we persuaded him to go to Boston with one
of our editors and have the sample analyzed at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology. He agreed only after we promised to pay
all the expenses for the trip.

MIT reported that the metal was ordinary aluminum, the stuff of
cooking pots and skillets. It may have come from the hull of a
flying saucer; aluminum is a good structural metal for flying
vehicles. But it certainly was not "unlike any metal on Earth."

Erich Von Daniken. I was invited to appear on a televised panel
discussion with Von Daniken in Toronto. He spoke about certain
passages in the Old Testament that showed that Moses may have
used a laser weapon against the enemies of the Israelites. And
where could he get a laser in those ancient times, except from
visiting aliens? Watching his performance, I began to understand
the technique of half-truths that he was using. When it came my
turn to speak, I said that by using the same technique that Von
Daniken used, I could show that Manhattan was built by ancient
astronauts.

The show's host was intrigued and asked me to proceed.

There is plenty of evidence that mysterious Manhattan was built
by ancient astronauts, I began. For example, there is a park in
the middle of the island that is perfectly rectangular, but you
can't see its rectangular shape from the ground. You must be
high in the air, perhaps even in orbit, to see the true shape of
Central Park. Then, too, the main thoroughfares of Manhattan run
north-south, the same alignment as the Earth's magnetic field.

What do people call the tallest buildings in Manhattan?
Skyscrapers. Where do these towers point? Toward the stars.
Moreover, there is a giant copper statue in Manhattan's harbor
that no human being could possibly build (A team of humans could
and did, but no individual could raise the Statue of Liberty by
himself.)

The show's host and other panelists guffawed. Von Daniken left
and returned to his native Switzerland.

Skepticism is a valuable trait, although it can be carried too
far.

Thomas Jefferson did not believe that meteors were bodies of
rock and metal that fell to Earth from outer space. When
informed that two professors at Yale had claimed so, he said, "I
would rather believe that two Yankee professors would lie than
stones fall out of the sky."

The essence of science is measurement and proof. Ideas must be
tested before they are accepted as valid. Indeed, this concept
of testability is central to scientific understanding. Every
idea, every measurement, must be tested to see if it holds up
under examination.

Isaac Asimov once said that he had no argument with reports of
UFOs. "It's the IFOs that bother me," he added. Yes, there are
unidentified objects seen in the sky. But the conclusion that
these unidentified objects are extraterrestrial visitors is
unsupported by any solid evidence, even after more than half a
century.

Turn the question around. Look at the UFO phenomenon from the
viewpoint of the alleged alien visitors. If you had traveled
across many light-years of space and found a planet that bears
intelligent life, would you confine your activities to stunt
flying in the dark of night and abducting random individuals for
obscure medical examinations?

More likely you would either announce your presence in an
unmistakable manner or you would keep yourself hidden from human
detection while you study the Earth and its inhabitants without
interfering with the subject of your study.

There may be myriads of highly advanced extraterrestrial
civilizations. Their representatives may indeed be swarming over
our planet. We simply have no credible evidence of it.

During the American Civil War, when reports from the
battlefields were often unreliable, many newspapers used a
headline that warned their readers that the story they were
about to read might not be accurate. The headline was, "Good
News, If True."

That is how I feel about UFO reports. It would be wonderful to
know that we are being visited by intelligent aliens. But I
doubt that it's true.

-----

[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com & Richard Hendricks
 for the lead]









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                     Project Bluebook Microfilm Question

From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:04:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:15:42 -0400
Subject: Project Bluebook Microfilm Question


This question is for anyone who has looked at the Project
BlueBook microfilm available at the National Archives. I'd like
to scan a portion of these documents from 35mm film to a digital
format and then OCR and proof them into text.

Actually, I have two questions:

1. Has this project been undertaken by anyone to date?

2. What is the condition of the microfilm documents. Are they
suitable for commercial scanning and OCR conversion?


Thanks,

William Wise

"Who that has once seen how truth leads on to truth, shall ever
dare to set a bound to knowledge?" -Alfred Noye









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

              Re: Project Bluebook Microfilm Question - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:5:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:35:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Project Bluebook Microfilm Question - Aldrich


>From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:04:49 -0400
>Subject: Project Bluebook Microfilm Question

>This question is for anyone who has looked at the Project
>BlueBook microfilm available at the National Archives. I'd like
>to scan a portion of these documents from 35mm film to a digital
>format and then OCR and proof them into text.

>Actually, I have two questions:

>1. Has this project been undertaken by anyone to date?

>2. What is the condition of the microfilm documents. Are they
>suitable for commercial scanning and OCR conversion?


I have the Project Blue Book microfilms.

Briefly, the USAF Xeroxed the case files, and deleted all the
witnesses' names and other information from the copies, then
they filmed them. So material is very good and would easily
transfer. Other material is of poorer quality. Most radar
photographs are of little use. Some material from other
microfilms and carbon copies of document are of poor quality.

No one that I know of has undertaken such a project. Several
have written about or summarized the BB unknowns, however, many
cases with explanations are either more interesting or as
interesting as the USAF's unknowns.


Jan Aldrich







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 18

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:32:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:39:16 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 18


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 18
May 5, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/
E-mail: Masinaigan.nul


CHUPACABRAS GO ON A
RAMPAGE IN CHILE

      "A family in Collipulli," a small town 150 kilometers
(90 miles) southeast of Concepcion, Chile, "is going
through hard times after having discovered the remains of
12 hens kept locked in a henhouse beside their house."
      "'This looks abnormal,' said Orlando Coronado, still
painfully disturbed by the macabre spectacle that revealed
itself before his eyes yesterday morning (Monday, April
25, 2004) and which affected his household located at
Calle Agromedo 807 (street) in this city."
      "'I don't understand what happened.  I opened the
chicken coop like I do every day to feed my birds, and I'm
faced with this.  All of them were dead.  Some were
headless; others were missing their legs, and the
strangest thing is that there wasn't a drop of blood.  I
really don't understand how they were slain, or exactly
what happened.'"
      "There are two fierce dogs in the Coronado backyard,
but neither of them barked.  As for himself and his
family, they heard nothing, in spite of the fact that the
master bedroom isn't far from the henhouse."
      "'We heard no sound at all.  Nothing.'"
      "'I keep my hens under lock and key every evening, so
there's no explanation.  We don't know what happened, and
we don't understand it,' he said, showing the dozen or so
dead and exsanguinated birds."
      "The event caused a stir among Collipulli's
inhabitants.  Word spread immediately that a 'Chupacabra'
attack had taken place, attributing the event to the
legendary contemporary character to whom hundreds of
poultry attacks throughout Latin America have been
blamed."
      "A less sensational explanation involves a mink, a
foreign species that has caused serious losses to
residents of the north Aysen region after having been
introduced there a few years ago."
      Elsewhere, "a new series of animal slayings occurred
in Tocopila," a port city in northern Chile just south of
the border with Peru, "reviving old fears about the
existence of a pitiless creature that attacks without
leaving a trace or explanation as to how the deaths
occur."
      "Yesterday (Tuesday, March 9, 2004) in the Tres
Marias section of town, north of the port area, the
Chupacabra legend was brought up in the small household of
Eduardo Covarrubias, when 32 farm birds were found dead.
Their bodies were scattered within the henhouse, which
showed no signs of forced entry by trespassers or other
animals from the region."
      "Covarrubias made the macabre find when he went to
feed his animals, as he does every day, coming across the
unpleasant scene of the lifeless hens."
      "The (Chilean) police were immediately informed.
Alarmed by the violent animal slayings, law enforcement
reached the site swiftly.  Carabineros (Chilean national
police--J.T.) cordoned off the area to avoid losing
evidence, while bloodhounds aided in collecting the final
bits that would explain the strange event.  However, area
residents blame the legendary Chupacabra, who has returned
to trouble their nightmares, a belief substantiated by the
manner in which the deaths occurred."
      "It was possible to ascertain that the birds showed a
single orifice (wound) on the base of their necks, being
almost the same depth" among all of the hens.
"Furthermore, it was not possible to find vast amounts of
blood on the ground despite the magnitude of the
killings."
      "Add to this the deaths of only two roosters, who
were beheaded during the attack."
      "Covarrubias was shaken by the attack, which
represented" a personal loss of 300,000 Chilean pesos.
"Research personnel conducted a thorough investigation at
the site, taking some of the dead hens with them for more
detailed tests."
      Another Chupacabra attack was reported in Ancud, in
the far south, about 1,000 kilometers (600 miles) south of
Santiago de Chile, the national capital.
      "Arturo Strange is adamant.  He insists that it is
not common for a dog attack to result in all of the prey
bunched up, as he has seen inside his henhouse--one
chicken piled on top of another."
      "Furthermore, he maintains that 'there is a hole in
the back through which the creature came in.  As far as I
know, dogs don't dig and travel underground.'"
      "A henhouse suffered a bloody attack, and 25 hens
were the victims.  The owner of the birds is a long-time
resident of the barrio Pudeto Alto (neighborhood) in
Ancud, a region where the urban borders the rural."
      "No one can disabuse Strange of the notion that the
animal that killed his birds is a strange beast--the
Chupacabra.  He is so convinced of this that, despite
having lost all his birds, he has summoned a veterianrian
to undertake an analysis."
      "In what is now known as 'the Ancud case,' it is
possible to believe that the Chupacabra was actually
involved.  Veterinarian Andres Norambuena visited the
scene of the attack at 1 p.m. at Calle Pudeto 772
(street).  Without discarding any speculation, the
professional has ventured with some certainty that a dog
could be involved.  But Strange is unconvinced, since he
insists that 'the only dog I had barking yesterday was my
own.  The hens didn't make a sound.  They were nice and
quiet.'"
      "Strange's belief has been corroborated by local
residents particularly on the Calle Las Americas (street)
where two residents witnessed an unknown animal.  The
creature was described as having 'an elongated body,
pointy head, slanted eyes and stands on two legs...I only
saw it for a few seconds,' says Jacqueline Cordero, one of
the locals, who only six months ago saw an unidentified
creature that she believes claimed the lives of six
chickens."  (See the Chilean newspapers El Diario de
Araucania for April 25, 2004, "More mutilated animals,"
and La Estrella  del Loa for March 10, 2004, "Strange
animal deaths."  Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Liliana
Nunez y Marco Reynoso para estos articulos de diario.)
(Editor's Comment:  And welcome to South American Monster
Mash Week here at UFO Roundup.  The monsters are running
wild in South America.  Maybe they heard that Van Helsing
will be released next week.)


EL UNYUDO CAUSES A PANIC
IN WESTERN ARGENTINA

      El Unyudo (Spanish for The Clawed One--J.T.) is South
America's newest monster.  He made his debut in San Luis
province, in western Argentina, a few weeks ago.
      "Local residents, police and community protection
brigades went in search of the elusive creature, but it
managed to escape yet again."
      "First it was a source of amusement, and very few
paid it any attention.  But the fact is, since Wednesday
night," April 7, 2004, "El Unyudo went on to become the
main topic of conversation in Justo Daract," a small town
in San Luis province, located about 560 kilometers (350
miles) west of Buenos Aires, the national capital.
      "As reported by this newspaper, the strange creature
drew attention when it appeared before some young women
who work for the Community Safety Watch; one of them
fainted."
      "In any event, the most serious episode involving the
creature occurred on Wednesday night when a child heading
home from doing some errands was startled by it."
      "According to the information collected, the 11-year-
old boy was returning home when on the darkened corner of
Calle Liniers and Calle Los Andes (streets) in Justo
Daract's barrio Norte (neighborhood), he felt something
tap him on the back.  Upon turning around, he saw
something or someone who frightened him considerably.
Terrified, the boy ran home screaming, alerting neighbors
to the situation.  They immediately came out of their
houses to find out what the commotion was about."
      "While residents of the sector, north of the train
station, started their search, elements of the 18th
District Sheriff's Department combed the area, as well,
without positive results."
      "Journalist Maura Avila of radio station RJD-1
reached the scene to conduct interviews as the search
continued.  She told (the newspaper) El Diario de la
Republica the following: 'I was informed that there was a
great deal of movement in Barrio Norte, near the hospital,
and we headed there just as the police arrived.  We heard
that El Unyudo had appeared--a character who has gained
notoriety in Justo Daract because he has been appearing
for several days now, and he terrified an 11-year-old on
the corner of Liniers and Los Andes.'"
      "'Those who claim having seen El Unyudo say that it
doesn't have human form, rather an animal one, adding that
it walks on four legs and hops, being capable of very
swift movements.'"
      "The search, conducted by residents, volunteers and
community watch workers, concentrated around the railroad
tracks, since 'some claimed having seen it climb to the
very top of the grain silos found there.  Some even
climbed them but found nothing abnormal.  They also
searched nearby wells without any results.  It managed to
escape once again.'"
      "Regarding the child, the journalist confirmed that
'he was taken to the hospital to see if he had experienced
any injuries, but it was clear that he had only suffered a
good fright.'"
      "Beyond the remarks and questions regarding the
phenomenon, Maura Avila stated: 'Personally, I've seen
nothing at all, and I think there isn't much relating to
it, and a good deal of psychosis.  It is time that much is
being said about the character in Justo Daract, especially
among the kids, but it could be a case of mass hysteria.'"
      "She added that El Unyudo isn't the only weirdo being
spoken about in town: 'There have been other cases and not
only featuring this entity, and they always take place in
poorly lit locations.  For example, a naked man is
believed to appear in certain areas, as well.'"
      "Avila finally added that 'it is worth noting the
time at which these events take place, that is to say,
Easter Week.  In this regard, there are those who speak of
the existence of black magic cults that could be involved
in these events.'"
      "A resident of Barrio Norte told the Panorama
Informativo radio show, hosted by Maura Avila, that what
happened was 'a little boy was frightened and the
neighbors, especially the men, ran everywhere and couldn't
catch it, although many saw it.  The lad was taken to the
hospital, as the entire neighborhood was alarmed, since
this character, whom I believe is known as El Unyudo, had
already appeared in this area twice before.'"
       "The woman added that 'there is very little light in
the neighborhood, so let's hope the (municipal) commission
can do something because you can't see a thing at night.
But there is a great deal of concern now because it's not
normal.  It's not a game any more, and an end must be
found to the situation.'"
      "Many sources claimed that several police officers
were able to reach the mysterious intruder on Wednesday
night, and were able to trap it, but, in a display of
tremendous strength, and because of its slippery body, it
was able to slip away and escape with prodigious leaps and
bounds."
      "Sheriff Miguel Miranda of District 18 rejected such
stories, stating that 'it's true that there was running
about a person dressed in black, but officially we have
nothing--no reports making reference to such an event.  In
any case, we have increased our patrols as a preventive
measure.'"
      "The police officer acknowledged having heard remarks
that the creature 'walks on four legs and hops like a
kangaroo, but there is no evidence to corroborate such
statements.'"
      "While some alleged witnesses describe it as a
mystical, almost ethereal animal, others have described it
as a tall man, dressed in black and caped, covering his
face with a mask and using gloves equipped with long,
seemingly metallic claws, a detail which earned him the
name 'the Clawed One.'"
      "His latest apparition leads to the belief that it's
a person disguised with the purpose of frightening the
population.  Added to this is the fact that the children
and teenagers of Justo Daract are fond of X-Men cartoons,
whose participants are mutants.  One of them--Wolverine--
has metallic claws as his main weapon for fighting crime."
      "On the other hand, the exploits of this mysterious
creature are reminiscent of those who aroused popular
curiosity at this time.  Last year (2003), and on the same
date, there was talk of El Cuervo (Spanish for The Crow--
J.T.), a being described as similar to the bird in
question; while in 2002, several locals claimed having
seen two individuals in white robes; and others recalled
another character whose brief fame earned him the nickname
El Encapuchado Verde (Spanish for The Green Hood--J.T.)
until he was identified as a mentally impaired
individual."
(Editor's Comment:  The Crow!?  The Green Hood!?  What is
this--the Justice League of Argentina!?)
      "Padre Fabian, (Roman Catholic) parish priest in
Justo Daract, dismisses the phenomenon, saying that 'there
are only three things to be said.  First, there isn't
enough street lighting in Justo Daract.  Therefore, at
night, one sees not only clawed ones, but also dinosaurs,
sea serpents and other things, especially when there's a
psychosis afoot.  Second, if a prankster is involved, he
will be apprehended at any time by the authorities, since
the police force is on alert.  Finally, if it is a
supernatural force, it would evidently be some game of the
Devil to confound people, since at this time of year their
attention should be fixed on Christ.  Of course, you can
add the psychological element to all of this, especially
in small towns and cities.'"  (See the Argentinian
newspaper El Diario de la Republica for April 10, 2004,
"Concern in Justo Daract."  Muchas gracias a Scott
Corrales, Mario Luis Bracamonte y Carlos Iurchuk para esto
articulo de diario.)


EL LOBIZON FRIGHTENS MANY
IN SAENZ PENA, ARGENTINA

      "'I saw it...I saw it...it was so huge!  I don't
believe in such things, but others at the 10 service
(petrol in UK--J.T.) station also saw it.  It was a
lobizon,' said Francisco, a young man who yesterday
evening (Saturday, February 21, 2004) was driving along
the Calle Belgrano (street) in his small Fiat Spazio, when
suddenly, 'a dog the size of a calf crossed my path and
uttered a very ugly cry.  I pulled over because I was
really scared,' he told a local radio station" in Saenz
Pena, a large city in Argentina.
(Editor's Note: The Lobizon is Argentina's version of a
werewolf, an accursed human who periodically transforms
into a large, ferocious wolf.)
      "The appearance of an animal similar to a large dog
in the downtown area caused a stir in the city, and it
wasn't long before" the story "spread--mainly over the
phone--the 'the Lobizon is loose in Saenz Pena,' according
to countless stories collected by radio stations contacted
by dozens of frightened locals, who claim having seen and
heard a strange beast they didn't hesitate to associate
with the Lobizon."
      "'Call Professor Lopez and ask for his opinion,
because it's the same creature that appeared in Concepcion
del Bermejo,' suggested an AM radio listener."
      "The alleged Lobizon appeared suddenly--who knows
how--in the downtown area.  Witnesses claim seeing it
around the Club Accion (Calle 15 (street) to Calle 16 and
Calle 18--J.T.) and later along Calle 11 heading eastward,
zigzagging in the vicinity of a service station."
      "'I was on my motorbike, about to fuel up, when I saw
that the service station employee got scared and ran into
the office, but I had no idea what was going on.  Then I
stopped the bike and heard a howl similar to a human,
something chilling, but saw nothing until a boy told me
that the Lobizon was afoot.  I tried to start the
motorbike, but it wouldn't turn over...I almost fainted,'
said Alejandro Soto to an FM radio station.  He works as a
security guard and was heading back to his home in barrio
Puerta del Sol (neighborhood)."
      "A well-known radio journalist from barrio Santa
Teresita acknowledged that the howling of local dogs
'didn't let us sleep.  Then I went outside and heard
growls that gave me goose-flesh,' he said."
      "Other accounts were also heard: 'Why shouldn't we be
afraid, when a huge dog the size of a calf, with big ears
and howling like a human, appears?" asked Martin
Caballero, who was heading home along Calle 11 on his
bicycle, returning home from a friend's house."
      "'This was a hairy, long-eared critter that ran very
fast--I saw it!  It screamed like someone was beheading
it,' explained Ramon Arroyo, who had just finished his
work shift at this early hour of the morning."
      "Jorge Garcia, director of the city's zoo, confirmed
that the Lobizon was (in reality) 'just a poor, harmless
aguara guazu' that was captured after a long chase that
ended at a garage on Calle 17."
      Garcia reportedly said that the reason for the aguara
guazu's sudden appearance in the city was the prolonged
drought affecting the province.
      "Add to this the modification of its natural habitat,
the expansion of the agricultural area and the permanent
alteration and fragmentation of its natural environment,
'and the animal goes in search of a more hospitable
habitat, disorientedly so, sometimes to a suburban or an
urban area, finding an excess population of dogs, which
frightens it.  With every step, it hears more barks, more
klaxons, and it begins a frightened race.'"
      According to Garcia, this was the second time that an
aguara guazu made its way into downtown Saenz Pena.  (See
the Argentinian newspaper El Norte for February 22, 2004.
Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para esto
articulo de diario.)


UFO SIGHTED IN ARGENTINA'S
CHALCHAQUI VALLEY

      "'It was an intense light that suddenly began moving
and stayed above us.  I thought it would whisk us away.'"
      "The terrifying story was told by Julio Rafael
Espinosa, 39, a farmer of the La Poma region," in
Argentina's northwestern province of Salta, "who, two
weeks ago, in the company of his two sons and an elderly
shepherdess, witnessed one of many luminous apparitions at
Quebrada de Orozco, 20 kilometers (12 miles) away from La
Poma, in the Rio Chalchaqui valley."
      "'On this night, around 8:30 p.m., we were waiting on
National Highway 40, which links La Poma to San Antonio de
los Cobres, waiting for the merchandise truck that passes
by a few times a week bringing novelties and supplies with
it,' the man recalled."
(Editor's Note:  The camion de provisiones, or "store
truck," is a common sight in rural South America.  I
hitched a ride on one to get from Casma on Peru's Pacific
coast to Huaraz and Caras in the Callejon de Huaylas.)
      "'We were with my two boys, ages 6 and 9, and with
Grandma Braulia, 82, a shepherdess who is a neighbor of
our stand in the Sauzalito area, when suddenly a luminous
object appeared out of the slopes of Nevado de Cachi
(mountain), flying at low altitude and zigzagging.'"
      "According to the humble farmer's testimony, the huge
object's luminosity increased and diminished in the
measure that it approached the point where the group
observed the phenomenon from the edge of the road."
      "Espinosa says that they were perplexed and nearly
frozen" with fear as "the UFO stood over their heads,
which was the time of the greatest luminous intensity
emanating from the vehicle."
      "'It lasted only an instant.  It was motionless in
the air some 50 meters (165 feet) above us, and its white
light suddenly became yellowish.  It had no shape as it
was like an enormous, reflugent mass."
      "Espinosa said that 'after a few seconds, the object
lost itself swiftly among the northern hills in the
vicinity of the location known as Punta del Agua.'"
      "'The UFO came from the area of La Poma, and the
entire event lasted some three minutes, from the moment it
appeared, stood over us and vanished.  After that, we
remained waiting for the truck, didn't say anything to
anybody, and left.  The next day, Grandma Braulia told me
that that wasn't the first time she'd seen a similar
phenomenon in the area.  Before that, I thought I was the
only one who had seen any flying objects.  However, many
more locals have witnessed the phenomenon,' the man said."
      "Espinosa, a privileged witness to the new sighting,
had already witnessed similar events, such as one last
December (2003) as he traveled in the company of six
people aboard a bus on the Tin Tin Highway.  On this
occasion, he managed to see lights similar to those of a
UFO on the ground in the middle of Los Cardones National
Park.  But on this occasion, Espinosa claims having seen
some aliens descending from the craft and who appeared to
be taking samples of the soil or shrubs growing in the
region."
      "Somewhat more confidently, Espinosa dared to reflect
that 'this area appears to be used by those strange
devices as a passageway to the Cordilleran region because
it's surrounded by large massifs, and the basin of the Rio
Chalchaqui, could serve as a permanent means of
communication with the Andes.'"  (See the newspaper El
Tribuno of Salta for April 27, 2004, "La Poma: Another
sighting in the Chalchaqui valley."  Muchas gracias a
Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para esto articulo de
diario.)


LUMINOUS UFO SIGHTED
IN NORTHERN SPAIN

      "On Thursday, April 22, 2004, a mysterious object was
reported in the vicinity of the Biscayan town of
Apatamonasterio" in northern Spain "at around 9:30 p.m."
      "A 14-year-old boy was returning home when he saw
lights in the sky that attracted his attention.  He saw
something in the far distance that 'didn't seem like an
airplane and had different lights, aside from moving at
faster speeds.'"
      "According to his testimony, the alleged UFO changed
direction, just to go right back the way it had come,
losing itself in the night toward Durango."
      The Spanish paranormal group "SEIP investigated the
incident, and, a week later, we ran into a woman, almost
by sheer coincidence, who told us of her own experience.
It seems that on the very same day of the event, and at
the same time--9:30 p.m., she observed three small white
lights that appeared to be 'stationary in the sky.'  The
woman was unsure if it was a single object with three
lights on it or three small objects in formation."
      "Months ago, SEIP investigated a similar flap 'in
areas of Bizkaia and Guipizcoa pertaining to luminous
spheres and triangular objects.'"  (Muchas gracias a Scott
Corrales y J. Manuel Duran de SEIP para esto informe.)


GOLDEN UFO SEEN OVER
CANCUN, MEXICO

      On Thursday, April 22, 2004, eyewitness Jeff Guy
reported, "My wife Debra and I were on vacation in Cancun
with my young daughter.  It was another fine day, and my
wife and I were sitting on a second-floor balcony at the
Crown Paradise Hotel overlooking the ocean.  The night
skies were clear with patchy clouds.  It was about 9 p.m."
      "We were having a pleasant discussion when I suddenly
noticed my wife staring over my right shoulder at probably
a 45-degree angle.  I asked her what she was looking at,
and she pointed out an object that was deliberately moving
in the sky.  It was moving north-northeast (towards the
Yucatan Channel--J.T.) with a golden glow.  We could not
tell how large the object was, but we knew it was not a
plane, a helicopter or weather balloon.  It moved very
deliberately but in all directions, meandering through the
sky.  We watched it go behind clouds and then back in
front" of them.
      "At one point, it dropped a great distance in a very
short period of time.  It wasn't really like a dead drop,
though, it looked like a powered descent.  It stayed there
for a brief period and then rose to its original level.
After about ten minutes of this, the object flew to the
northeast."
      UFO sightings have been on the increase lately in
Mexico's state of Yucatan.
      On Friday, March 19, 2004, Nicte Ha Martin Loeza "had
a multiple UFO sighting at 8:17 p.m. while she was at the
Haltun Ha estate in Nolo, Yucatan, Mexico doing some
stargazing."
      "Suddenly, she noticed four white lights racing over
her head.  It was clear that they were not aircraft since
there were no blinking (navigation) lights.  She also
remembered that no noises were heard."
      "The weather was completely clear, and the sky could
be seen perfectly.  While she observed the movements of
the lights, the third light that followed the first two
vanished from sight and reappeared in front of the two
others."
      "Her first idea was that this was some sort of
satellite but dismissed the possibility in view of the
race that the objects seemed to be engaged in.  The second
light seemed to be catching up with the first.  All of the
lights vanished after being in view for two minutes."
(Muchas gracias a Jeff y Debra Guy, y tambien Scott
Corrales y David Triay Lucatero para estos informes.)


RECTANGULAR UFO SEEN
IN SITTINGBOURNE, KENT

      On Saturday, April 18, 2004, at 10:30 p.m., Sam
Hanson reported, "I was out playing football (soccer in
the USA--J.T.) and was on my way home" in Sittingbourne,
Kent, UK.  "Something caught my eye.  When I looked up, I
saw a big, box-like shape dipping out of the sky.  A big,
grey, box-like shape with flashing multicoloured lights.
Then it shot straight back up like a flash of lightning.
It was grey, box-shaped and had lights all around it."
      The object's "approaching speed was about 200 miles
per hour (320 kilometers per hour) and its departure speed
was 300 miles per hour (480 kilometers per hour). (Email
Form Report)


WOMAN SEES A UFO AT
BREAKFAST POINT, SYDNEY

      On Saturday, April 24, 2004, at 7:25 p.m., Susan Cruz
was at Breakfast Point in Sydney, New South Wales, the
largest city in Australia, when she noticed a strange
object coming from the north.
      "It had a very bright, fireball-like appearance,"
Susan reported, "At first I thought it was an aeroplane on
fire, which lasted for approximately 15 seconds.  It then
reduced in size to a small white light, then to a red
light which was flashing.  Then it started toward the west
and disappeared into the darkness of the sky."  (Email
Form Report)


MAN PHOTOGRAPHS A UFO
IN CRADOCK, SOUTH AFRICA

      On Wednesday, March 17, 2004, at 6:32 p.m., William
van der Merwe was outdoors near his home in Cradock, South
Africa, a small city located about 450 kilometers (270
miles) east-northeast of Cape Town.  He had his new camera
handy and planned to take a few snapshots of the sunset.
      "I was taking a photo of the sunset and did not see
anything while taking the photo," William reported, "After
looking at the photo on the LCD (liquid crystal display)
screen of the camera a few minutes later, I saw IT in the
picture!"
      "IT" was a flattened silver-white disc.  William
added, "The object was about 50 degrees above the horizon.
I took this photograph at 84 Bree Street in Cradock,"
South Africa.  (Email Interview)

[The image available with the online edition of UFO Roundup.
See http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ ]


DAYLIGHT DISC SIGHTED
IN SPOKANE, WASH.

      On Thursday, April 30, 2004, eyewitness S.N. was
driving south on Highway 195, just south of Spokane,
Washington state (population 195,629) when he spotted a
strange glimmer to his right.
      "In the western sky, I saw a white disk-like object
traveling to the east, away from me.  I watched it for
about 40 seconds.  It slowly disappeared in the
southeastern sky," towards Mica Peak.
      "It was traveling at an extremely fast rate."  (Email
Form Report)


FAYETTE FLAP DIES DOWN

      The strange surge of Fayette Factor incidents, which
hit a record high during the past month, finally began to
die down last week.
      The Fayette Factor is one of the strangest phenomena
in Forteana.  It's an extraordinarily high incidence of
strange incidents and events taking place in American
towns and cities named after Marie-Joseph de Motier, the
Marquis de Lafayette, one of the Founding Fathers of the
USA and a prominent Freemason.
      Fortean researcher Loren Coleman has pointed out that
the name Fayette "is not even in the Top Ten of most
common municipal names in the U.S.," which would tend to
suggest that these happenings are beyond the realm of
coincidence.
      Last week's incidents all had to do with unusual
deaths.
      In Kentucky, "James Richie 'Jamie' Sinkhorn, 20, of
Lexington was positively identified by family members
Monday," April 26, 2004, "the Fayette County coroner's
office said."  Sinkhorn's remains were found over the
weekend.
      In Oregon, "a body was discovered in Terry Park,
along the Willamette River in Lafayette, Ore., according
to the Yamhill County Sheriff's Office."
      In Georgia, "a 65-year-old man fatally shot his wife
while she was being treated at a dental office, then
killed himself, authorities said."  The incident took
place in Fayetteville, Georgia on Wednesday, April 28,
2004.  (Many thanks to Loren Coleman for these reports.)


MARS ROVERS EXCEED
ORIGINAL MISSION GOALS

      "NASA's Mars rovers just keep rolling across the Red
Planet."
      "Opportunity and its twin, Spirit, have completed
their original 90-day science missions, scientists and
engineers reported Wednesday," April 28, 2004, "at NASA's
Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.
Opportunity reached its 90th day on Mars Monday," April
26, 2004," and Spirit reached the same milestone earlier
this month."
      "'We have now completed or exceeded' all mission
goals, JPL's Matt Wallace says."
      "And neither rover shows signs of stopping."
      "The twins, golf-cart-sized mobile geology labs
designed to investigate the history of water at two
Martian sites, landed in January (2004).  Detecting signs
of past water is considered a first step in learning
whether Mars ever harbored life."
      "What's next?  'We want to get to them thar hills,'
says Spirit rover Dave Des Marais of NASA's Ames Research
Center in Moffett Field, California."
      "Spirit has seen signs of volcanic rock at Gusev
Crater, the Connecticut-sized in which it landed on
January 3, 2004.  But from space, Gusev looks as if it
once held a channel-fed lake, which has made Spirit's
findings a bit disappointing."
      "But the Spirit team is planning to reach some nearby
hills in mid-June in hopes that the terrain will reveal
signs of an ancient lake bed."
      "Opportunity discovered in March (2004) that a sea
once covered its landing site, the Oklahoma-sized
Meridiani Planum region.  The rover found sedimentary rock
laced with salt deposits lining the small crater in which
it landed on January 24, 2004.  Mission scientists have
turned Opportunity toward its next target, a large crater
named Endurance.  From a distance, the crater seems ringed
with more of the bedrock that provided the earlier
evidence of water.  The crater is about 430 feet (109
meters) across and is much deeper than Opportunity's
landing crater.  Its deeper rock layers may reveal the
presence of water billions of years ago."
      "Engineers hope to drive the rover to the crater's
edge within the next week."
      "'We'll face some fun decisions then,' says
Opportunity mission scientist Scott MacLennan of the State
University of New York at Stony Brook, as the team debates
whether to send the rover into the deep crater.  Getting
in may be easy, but getting out may be hard.  It took two
tries to get Opportunity out of its shallow landing crater
because of the slippery Martian sand."
      "The big relief to team members in meeting their
mission goals is that they are no longer working on Mars
time, Wallace says.  A Mars day, or Sol, is about 40
minutes longer than an Earth day.  As a result, some team
members suffered from a skewed sleep schedule."
      "'It's a wonderful thing being on Earth time,'
Wallace says, 'You feel like you've come back from being
someplace like Mars.'"  (See USA Today for April 29, 2004,
"Mars rovers are still going strong," page 6-D.)


CASSINI IS IN THE HOME
STRETCH FOR SATURN

      On Monday, May 3, 2004, "the Cassini Image Science
Team released the last image of the whole of Saturn and
its rings that can be taken" as the robot Cassini
spacecraft closes in on the ringed planet.
      "From now on, the rings will be larger than the
(spacecraft) camera's field of view.  The image was taken
(Saturday) March 27 (2004) from a distance of 29.7 million
miles."
      Cassini, and its onboard planetary probe Huygens, are
scheduled to start orbiting Saturn on July 1 (2004) and
will collect data for four years."
      "The Huygens probe will seperate on December 25
(2004) and descend onto Titan, Saturn's largest moon (and
about the same size as Earth--J.T.) on January 14, 2005."
      "Cassini-Huygens is a collaboration between NASA, the
European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency."  (See
USA Today for May 3, 2004, "Saturn gets ready for its
closeup," page 6D.)
(Editor's Comment:  I wonder if it's too early to begin
drawing up the blueprints for Masinaigan Estates, UFO
Roundup's planned subdivision on Enceladus.)


From the UFO Files...

1918: LADY SOPWITH

      People sometimes ask if there were any unidentified
flying objects during the First World War, comparable to
the famous "foo fighters" of World War II.
      Yes, there was a "mystery aircraft" flap in 1918, the
last year of World War I, and it featured one of the
strangest personalities of that conflict--a woman pilot
who challenged all comers, Allied and German alike.
      The strange saga began on a Wednesday, January 9,
1918. A British S.E.5 Scout, flown by Lt. Frederick
Ardsley, was on an early-morning patrol between Amiens and
Villers-Bocage in northern France.  Ardsley was out
looking for sausage-shaped German barrage balloons,
tooling along at 10,000 feet (3,000 meters), the ice-cold
slipstream tugging at his leather flying cap and silk
scarf.
      All at once, Ardsley had a sudden compulsion to look
to his left.  He did, and then blinked in astonishment
behind his goggles.  Flying just a few feet away from his
biplane was another S.E.5 of the Royal Flying Corps
(forerunner of today's RAF--J.T.), complete with a
brightly-painted red nose, a Lewis gun over the top wing
and twin machine guns mounted on the fuselage right in
front of the cockpit.
      One of our chaps, Ardsley mused.  Thank God for that!
If he'd been a Hun, he'd have had me for certain.
      The young pilot had the oddest feeling something was
wrong.  Then he realized what it was.  The other S.E.5's
engine was strangely muted.  Indeed, it sounded more like
a toyshop buzzing than the throaty roar of a Rolls-Royce
engine.  He also noticed that the other plane lacked the
blue-white-and-red RFC roundels and any identifying
squadron numbers.  Instead, there was a curious golden
symbol on the canvas fuselage--the astrological sign of
Venus.
      The other pilot gave him a jaunty salute.  Ardsley
nodded and waved back.  Then the pilot reached up and
pulled off the goggled leather cap, letting a cascade of
golden hair unfurl in the slipstream.  He heard her
jubilant laughter over the sound of his own engine.
      "What the bloody hell--!?" Ardsley bellowed, gaping
at the female pilot.
      She seemed to be teasing him, making exaggerated
kissy-face expressions and winking her cornflower blue
eyes.  Then she began moving around in her own cockpit.
      Now what's she doing? the stunned pilot wondered.
      She was sitting on the cockpit's wicker rim, with her
back to Ardsley.  Suddenly, she leaned forward, gripped
the voluminous khaki skirt, and performed a Can-Can
routine that would have been the envy of La Gouloue.  The
slipstream blew the skirt aloft, exposing a shapely
derriere clad in white satin.
      Ardsley's jaw fell.  The satin-clad behind moved in a
rhythymic side-to-side motion.  The RFC pilot could not
believe what was happening.  I must be dreaming, he told
himself.
      Laughing merrily, she pulled down the billowing
skirt, plopped back into the cockpit, and, with another
jaunty wave, banked sharply to the left.  Ardsley hit the
throttle and followed suit, his engine drone growing in
intensity.
      Ground observers rotated the cranks of their field
telephones and reported a most unusual dogfight: an S.E.5
of 49 Squadron in hot pursuit of a red-nosed S.E.5.
      Ardsley was an experienced pilot (meaning he'd
survived his first three weeks on the Western Front--
J.T.), and he strove hard to keep up with the mad
aerobatics of the mysterious aviatrix.  Every time he had
that rogue S.E.5 in his gunsights, she managed to dip,
dart, barrel-roll or split-S out of danger.  Or else a
sudden burst of mysterious speed would carry her just out
of range of his machine guns.
      Suddenly, her S.E.5 began climbing, heading for a
bank of clouds at 20,000 feet (6,000 meters).  Ardsley
listened closely, but, unlike his own, her engine did not
seem to be laboring.  He cocked both fuselage machine guns
and fired.  Both guns fell silent after four seconds.
Frowning grimly, he reached up and triggered the Lewis
gun.  It jammed!
      The high-altitude cold stung his exposed lips.  He
had trouble catching his breath.  His engine began missing
on all cylinders.  He knew he was at the S.E.5's flight
ceiling.  His plane could go no higher.  But her biplane
flew effortlessly toward the clouds overhead.
      Ardsley's plane began to stall.  Its propellor
whirled uselessly.  The air up there was too thin for his
flimsy machine.  With a grimace of defeat, he pushed down
on the yoke and sent the S.E.5 into a controlled dive.
Glancing over his shoulder, he watched the mystery biplane
enter those all-concealing clouds.
      Two hours later, Ardsley faced an irate squadron
leader at his field near Amiens.
      "Are you going to tell me that fellow's number?" the
older man asked, "Or am I going to have you confined to
quarters?"
      "It wasn't one of our chaps, sir.  It was a woman."
      "A woman!?"
      "Yes, sir."  Ardsley stood at rigid attention.
"Somebody's popsy, I suppose.  She stole one of our kites
(RFC slang for planes--J.T.) and was out for a lark when
she came up behind me."
      And then he offered a detailed explanation of the
encounter.
      When he was finished, the squadron leader shook his
head.  "Ardsley, if I send that report to Trenchard, he's
going to think I've gone stark raving mad.  No, I much
prefer the observers' version.  You and another S.E.5
pilot fought a mock dogfight over the forward lines--"
      "But, sir--!"
      "Yes, that's the report I'm sending to Trenchard," he
replied, "And you, lieutenant, are confined to quarters.
Dismissed."
      It was the world's introduction to Lady Sopwith.
      In no time at all, this "new air legend ran the
length of the front."  In late January 1918, a German
pilot, Albert Roehl, "was shot down and captured" behind
the Allied lines.  When brought to an RFC field near
Amiens, he told the British squadron leader, "Sir, I
should very much like to meet her."
      "Her?" he echoed.
      "The woman who shot me down.  Die Walkure (German for
The Valkyrie --J.T.)."
      Nor was Roehl the only German pilot to encounter the
mystery aviatrix.
      "In this period every German aviator who was shot
down and captured within Allied territory--and there were
very few--when brought in for interrogation claimed that
he had been downed by a girl who was flying a red Sopwith
triplane (affectionately called a "Tripe" by the RFC
pilots--J.T.).  In some instances, the plane was a red-
nosed S.E.5..."
      "No one refuted these claims, not even when some of
the (German) captives went so far as to request an
introduction to this militant female, before being sent to
POW compounds."
      "Dozens of Allied airmen claimed to have seen this
blonde siren skipping about at twelve thousand feet,
shooting the tails off unsuspecting Fokkers and
Halberstadts.  It was no optical illusion, brought on by
equal parts of mist, sunshine and Guiness's stout.  They
had seen her clearly, and she was a beautiful dish.  Her
Irene Castle-styled bobbed hair fluttered in the wind as
she zoomed and banked all over the sky," in her red
Sopwith Tripe or red-nosed S.E.5 that outflew and outran
every other biplane in the air.
      "The (Allied) infantry adopted this fable with
wholehearted enthusiasm, and in no time at all, this
flossy figure was zipping up and down the enemy wire,
shooting Hun gunners out of machine-gun pits and
performing all sorts of fantastic deeds of aerial daring.
Nothing in La Vie Parisienne could match this charmer."
      Lady Sopwith was seen by civilians, as well.  In May
1918, six-year-old Robert Tuchel was collared in the
family farmyard east of Amiens by his irate mother,
following some juvenile escapade.  Madame de Tuchel seated
herself on a bench outside the farmhouse, hauled her
errant son over her knee and lifted her hand, ready to
smack.  Suddenly, the red-nosed S.E.5 zoomed over the
rooftop, just above chimney height.  Its engine let out a
loud roar.  Startled, Madame de Tuchel stood up, and her
son rolled off her lap.  Next thing you know, Albert was
off and running across the field, waving his thanks to the
blonde pilot for having saved him from a spanking.
      As the Germans launched their big spring offensive in
1918, the question was on everyone's lips: Who is Lady
Sopwith?  There was no end to the theories.
      British pilots believed that she was the sister of
Captain Albert Ball, a famous RFC ace shot down only a
couple of months earlier.  "Ball's sister, Lois, a tomboy
who loved him devotedly...was carrying out a scourge of
family revenge."
      Americans tended to think in terms of conspiracy.
That Lady Sopwith was the prototype of a "secret squadron"
of female pilots being developed by the U.S. Army Signal
Corps.  That she was a Suffragette on a special mission
for President Woodrow Wilson.  Or, more cynically, that it
was all just a publicity stunt dreamed up by Wilson's
Director of War Information, George A. Creel.
      "Whenever the war situation became grave for the
Allies, the girl in the red-nosed S.E.5 sometimes became a
German fraulein flying a black-and-white Fokker.  This
particular damsel had long yellow braids that seemed to
streak back all the way" to the biplane's rudder.
      By June 1918, "American soldiers impressed with the
story of the Red Knight of Germany (Manfred Freiherr von
Richtofen, the top-scoring ace of World War I with 80
confirmed "kills"--J.T.) were certain she was a sister of
the baron, out to take revenge for the death of her famous
brother."
(Editor's Note:  In actuality, Freida von Richtofen was
married to British novelist D.H. Lawrence and spent 1918
interned in UK as an enemy alien.)
      Long after the war, novelist Arch Whitehouse
speculated about the origins of Lady Sopwith.  "I think I
know the actual basis for this flossy legend that began
innocently enough on a field near Chipilly near the Somme.
We had a squadron of S.E.5 pilots on the same field with
us, and these young scout pilots were always up to some
healthy devilment.  Around Christmas of 1917...they
decided to enliven the dreary days by organizing a
squadron party complete with a theatrical performance.
They were especially good at this, and one of the
ringleaders was a female impersonator.  He was young,
beardless and probably should have been back at Rugby
(School) conjugating Latin verbs."
      Whitehouse thought that this RFC pilot, dressed in
drag and wearing a blond wig, clambered into an S.E.5
cockpit after the performance, was seen at a distance by
some mechanics, and so the legend of "Lady Sopwith" was
born.
      But this theory ignores the numerous times Lady
Sopwith was seen in the air, plus the amazing stories
about her aircraft's unusual performance capabilities.
Indeed, no one ever saw Lady Sopwith make a landing.
Eyewitnesses' last glimpse of her was usually the sight of
the red-nosed S.E.5 plunging into a high-altitude cloud.
      I have often wondered how many Allied and German
pilots pursued the red-nosed S.E.5 into that thick
cumulous cloud...and never returned.
      Kind of makes you wonder what was in that cloud.
      On the last day of the war, November 11, 1918, German
pilot Kurt Enniger entered the now-abandoned headquarters
of his Jagdstaffel (fighter squadron). Picking up a piece
of chalk, he jotted a few lines on the blackboard where
missions were posted.
      Die Walkure           (The Valkyrie)
      Im Krieg geboren    (In war born)
      Im Krieg gestorben (In war destroyed)
      It was a fitting epitaph for the mysterious female
who had dared to fight both sides in World War I.  (See
the books Heroes and Legends of World War I by Arch
Whitehouse, Doubleday & Co., Garden City, N.Y., 1964,
pages 328 to 331; and They Fought for the Sky by Quentin
Reynolds, Holt, Rinehart & Winston, New York, N.Y., 1957,
pages 168 and 169.)

      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next week.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup provided that they credit the newsletter and its
editor by name and list the date of issue in which the
item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers.
If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received
the bulletin in error, please write to:

  <webmaster.nul>

With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

             Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:08:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:52:25 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Warren


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:14:26 -0400
>Subject: UFO UpDate: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>Source: SpaceDaily.Com

>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html

>TERRADAILY
>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>05-04-04

>by Ben Bova
>for Astrobiolgy Magazine
>Moffett Field (SPX)

<snip>

Good Day Fellow Listers,

Here's my response to Dr. Bova's excerpt that appeared in
Astrobiology Magazine


Dear Dr. Bova,

I'd like to take this opportunity to comment on the excerpt from
your book, "Faint Echoes, Distant Stars," entitled, UFOs,
Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts, published by Astrobiology
Magazine.

First, if let me apologize in advance if I have taken you out of
context, as I have not had the privilege in reading your book,
and my comments are directed to the excerpt only.

You said, "I believe that intelligent life must exist somewhere
in the vast universe of stars and galaxies. I recognize that
there is, as yet, no evidence to support this belief of mine."

I would have to respectfully disagree with you here - there is
in  fact exactly that, "supportive evidence" of the existence
of life elsewhere in the universe. If one accepts how science
dictates how complex life evolved on this planet, then there is
"ample" supportive evidence of the same from planets in our own
"Milky Way," not to mention the vastness of the universe.

"Astronomy" offers "supportive evidence" as astronomers have
identified planets that have enough elements for the essence of
life, as well as enough time for it to evolve.

"Mathmatical science" is also supportive of life in the
universe, as there 200 billion stars in our galaxy, and it is
one of billions of other galaxies in the universe. Considering
that we didn't "discover" an extrasolar planet until 1995, and
the number is now over 100 and rising; of course as more "space
based telescopes" are launched these numbers will increase
dramatically, as well as the ratio of "terrestrial" like
planets.

Moreover the prerequisites for carbon based life have changed
recently, as we humans "grow-up" in this vast cosmos. "Light"
we've learned is "no longer necessary"  for the existence of
life and we've found that it (life) can tolerate the most harsh
places. This of course increases the numbers where potential
life may exist.

The meteorite of 1996 from Mars, by the way is "supportive
evidence" of life on that planet - although the debate goes on,
it has never been discounted.

In regards to "UFOs, alien abductions, and ancient astronauts,"
you said, "I would like to see some scrap of hard, palpable
evidence; maybe as much as a person would take to traffic court
to prove he wasn't illegally parked when he got a ticket."

Omitting the abundant amount of photographic, forensic,
documentive, government/military records and exhibits, "oral and
eye witness" testimony are still the "best evidence" for the
highest courts in the land, and those number in the millions. My
suggestion however; would be to study the declassified documents
from our government; in that you will find all the "evidence"
you need--one only needs to look.

To be clear, most UFOs, that is "Unidentified Flying Objects"
that have been reported, are in fact IFOs, as was the case with
your sighting, however; it's the small percentage that defies
"conventional" explanation that we must address. From those,
"there is evidence" that supports  ETH. (Extraterrestrial
Hypothesis). Again, if you do the work, you will appease
yourself.

You said, "Look at the UFO phenomenon from the viewpoint of the
alleged alien visitors. If you had traveled across many light-
years of space and found a planet that bears intelligent life,
would you confine your activities to stunt flying in the dark of
night and abducting random individuals for obscure medical
examinations?

More likely you would either announce your presence in an
unmistakable manner or you would keep yourself hidden from human
detection while you study the Earth and its inhabitants without
interfering with the subject of your study."

First, you are asking your readers to predict an "alien agenda"
using "human logic." This on its face, is absurd! Second, we
have no idea how our visitors get here, and or how long it takes
them.

Finally, you said, "the essence of science is measurement and
proof." I say, "if you apply those fundamentals, and I mean
'you' personally, then you will ease any doubts you might have
about UFOs and their origin."


Respectfully,

Frank Warren









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

                     Re: Greer Dreary Non-News - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:40:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:55:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Dreary Non-News - Kaeser


>From: Barry Nelson <BARRYN789.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:53:16 EDT
>Subject: Re: Greer Dreary Non-News

>UFO history is replete with examples of how Big Media was, and
>is, being co-opted by the military to discredit ufo publicity
>seekers, crazies, and devout believers and experiencer's. In
>fact, the goal of discrediting was put right into Operations,
>like the Condon Report, and others.

>But attacking the Media now is like attacking the so-called
>Black Government. Nothing less than alien/ufo habeous corpus, or
>the proverbial alien hand-shake with the President, will budge
>the media's bias. Why? Because they dictate the stories, and how
>that story will be edited, and "sold".

Absolutely true, but the fact that media outlets have ultimate
control over what they define as news doesn't speak to an
organized effort on their part or some nefarious goal they might
share. In general, I would suggest that most media outlets are
driven by the profit motive and want to attract as many viewers,
readers, or listeners as they can. Thus, it would seem that the
way to get more UFO news in the media would be to get all of our
neighbors to join us in letting our local media outlets know of
our interest. Of course, it's going to be hard to make this type
of story more important than the economy or the war in Iraq.

>And as far as Greer's message getting old, or "dreary", who's
>goal is that? Isn't the goal of a psy-op to maintain closed
>communication and info loops, and to discredit the leaks, or
>turn them into lies? Isn't that the dreary you mean? That's not
>Greer's fault, or something he has to fix. He's there to expose
>it. What isn't dreary, and understated, especially by the UFO
>media, is that Greer has not been discredited and run out of
>business. Why is that? And isn't that a story to report on too?

For many in the field, Dr. Greer has been fully discredited. But
that doesn't mean he'll go away, or that people will waste time
trying to perform what might be perceived as damage control.


Steve







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 4

               Australian National UFO Conference 2004 Update

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 06:15:46 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:56:36 -0400
Subject: Australian National UFO Conference 2004 Update


Hi Everyone

The latest news on the Australian National UFO Conference 2004

June 5 & 6 2004

Please follow the links.

Speakers confirmed & Daily Programme

http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/SYD2004Speakers.html


Accommodation & Costs

http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/SYD2004ACCOM.html


Conference Costs & Bookings

http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/SYD2004CON-COST.html

Supported by AUFORN


Regards

Diane Harrison
National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn.nul
E-mail: ufologist.nul
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD  Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                  Saucerless Humanoids Revisionist Thoughts

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:02:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 06:38:22 -0400
Subject: Saucerless Humanoids Revisionist Thoughts


FWD [forteana] Saucerless Humanoids - Revisionist Thoughts on
"Close "Close Encounters III"


Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:16:36 -0700
From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
  To: forteana.nul
Subj: FWD [forteana] Saucerless Humanoids--Revisionist Thoughts on
"Close Encounters III"


Dear friends and Forteans,

We Forteans are all familiar with Close Encounters of the Third
Kind--reported encounters with humanoids in or near landed or
hovering UFO's. In the 1950's and 1960's, even long before
abduction reports became as common as they did from the 1970's
onward, many people reported seeing strange humanoids. Often,
they reported seeing the entities in connection with landed or
hovering UFO's. In other cases, however, no unusual craft or
vehicle was in fact mentioned by the witness(es). Several such
saucerless creature sightings have become classic "UFO occupant"
cases, repeated in countless UFO books as well-known Close
Encounters of the Third Kind. This seems to be the case, for
instance, with the often-cited humanoid sightings at Branch Hill
(Ohio) and Stockton (Georgia) in 1955, and near Globe (Arizona)
in 1960, as well as with the somewhat less celebrated Renton
(Washington) humanoid encounter of 1965. Other encounters with
peculiar humanoids, with no strange craft mentioned, were
reported before the beginning of our modern "Age of Flying
Saucers" in 1947.

At 4 AM early one morning in March, 1955, Robert Hunnicutt of
Loveland, Ohio (a town near Cincinnati noted later for the
"Loveland Frog" of the 1970's), was driving over a bridge near
Branch Hill, Ohio on his way to Loveland when he saw 3 small
"men" about 3 feet tall, grayish in color with froglike faces,
kneeling by the roadside. He stopped his car because he thought
someone was hurt and needed help. One of the creatures held a
dark chain or stick giving off bluish-white sparks between his
raised arms. When Hunnicutt got out of his car one of the "men"
moved as if signaling him to stay where he was. So, Hunnicutt
just watched for about three minutes. The next thing he knew, he
was driving toward the Loveland police station, making him feel
he "must have lost consciousness," in an interesting
anticipation of the "missing time" element of so many later
abduction reports. [Coral and Jim Lorenzen, 'Flying Saucer
Occupants'. (New York: New American Library, "Signet Books,"
1967), pp. 121-122; Jacques Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia'
(Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969), Case 361, p. 248; Coral
Lorenzen, "UFO Occupants in the United States," in Charles
Bowen, ed., 'The Humanoids' (Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969), p.
150; Leonard H. Stringfield, 'Situation Red! The UFO Siege' (New
York: Fawcett Crest, 1977), pp. 115-116; Janet and Colin Bord,
'Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th Century' (Chicago:
Contemporary Books, 1989), p. 151]

A few months later that year, at 3:30 AM in the early morning of
July 3, Mrs. Margaret Symmonds of Cincinnati, Ohio was driving
her family car to Florida when she saw 4 small figures in her
headlights on the road ahead of her, which at first she took for
pigs. Coming closer, she saw that they were "bug-eyed" little
"men" 3 =BD or 4 feet tall, gray in color and wearing capes,
huddled in the road as if about to dig into it with a stick one
of them was holding. One of the humanoids stepped aside to get
out of her way, and looked right at her. He had a roundish head,
with a slouch hat or cap on, huge eyes like saucers reflecting
red, a long pointed nose, a small mouth, a sharp pointed chin,
and long thin arms with claws, and short legs. His body was
hidden by the cape. Mrs. Symmonds swerved past the dwarfs, then
screamed out in fear, waking up her husband who was sleeping in
the back of the car. When she told him what she had seen, he
wanted to go back, but she refused.[Lorenzen and Lorenzen,
'Flying Saucer Occupants', p. 121; Vallee, 'Passport to
Magonia', Case 365, pp. 249-250; Lorenzen, "UFO Occupants in the
United States," in Bowen, ed., 'The Humanoids', pp. 149-150;
Stringfield, 'Situation Red!', pp.110-111; Bord and Bord,
'Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th Century', pp. 150-151]

Five years later, another weird dwarf humanoid was seen late at
night along a roadside in Arizona by yet another startled
motorist. One night in June 1960, a woman personally known to
APRO director Coral Lorenzen was driving her family Cadillac,
her husband and children asleep in the car, to California.
Around midnight, about 15 miles east of Globe, Arizona, she saw
a small, dark figure about 3 feet tall standing on the right
side of the road, as if about to cross. It turned to face her as
she slowed down, then ran off into the brush. "The second I saw
that thing my heart came up into my mouth and my stomach did a
flip-flop," she recalled. The figure had broad shoulders, long
arms, a flattened globular pumpkin-shaped head, and two glowing
yellowish-orange eyes. When the dwarf was in side view, the
witness saw a light beaming out beyond its face. She could not
see the body clearly, but got an impression of hair or fur. Like
Mrs. Symmonds' husband, this witness' husband also wanted to go
back, but she wisely refused. As in the 1955 night-time roadside
sightings by Mr. Hunnicutt in Branch Hill and Mrs. Symmonds in
Stockton, the 1960 Globe, Arizona witness did not report seeing
any unusual craft or vehicle. [Coral Lorenzen and Lorenzen,
'Flying Saucer Occupants', pp. 128-129; Lorenzen, "UFO Occupants
in the United States," in Bowen, ed., 'The Humanoids', pp. 159-
160; Bord and Bord, 'Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th Century',
pp. 152-153]

Two girls near Renton, Washington reportedly saw three non-
human-appearing "men" one morning in August, 1965, according to
a story in 'Saucer News', which did not give newspaper
attribution--but Coral Lorenzen and APRO were also tipped off
about this sighting by other sources. Around 7:00 or 7:30 AM on
August 13, Ellen G. Ryerson (16) and her sister Laura got out of
their car on a highway near Renton to work in a bean field when
they were approached by three "men" from the bean field. The
beings were about 1.6 meters (a little over 5 feet) tall, with
white-domed heads, protruding eyes "gray like stone," large
pores, and expressionless, deeply tanned faces. They wore
sleeveless V-necked purple jerseys over white shirts. The
frightened girls ran about 50 feet past the "men," and when they
looked back the beings had disappeared. As Coral Lorenzen noted,
"No craft was seen in connection with this incident"--which
nevertheless got written up in 'Saucer News' and then in her own
article on "UFO Occupants in the United States," as well as in
'Flying Saucer Review' [Bowen, ed. 'The Humanoids', p. 169;
Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia', Case 678. P. 313, citing 'Flying
Saucer Review', 66, 2]

The Branch Hill, Stockton, and Globe sightings, especially, have
gone down in the UFO literature as classic "Close Encounters
III"--despite no mysterious craft actually being reported. Some
Fortean and UFO writers, indeed, have themselves been aware of
this paradox and its potential problems for interpretation.
Thus, Janet and Colin Bord prefaced their discussion of the
Branch Hill, Stockton, and Globe encounters by remarking that
"Quite a lot of the non-human entities reported sound similar to
the entities seen close to landed UFO's" but admitting that "on
these occasions the witness sees no UFO, so there is no
certainty that the entities came from a UFO." Indeed, the Bords
felt, "it is difficult to be certain of anything with cases like
these" as "all we have to go on are the witness reports."
However, the Stockton entities seen by Mrs. Symmonds "were
engaged in that kind of puzzling, inconsequential activity which
UFO entities often seem to demonstrate," though "Mrs. Symmands
saw no UFO, only the entities" ['Unexplained Mysteries of the
20th Century', p. 150.) On the other hand, the Lorenzens
admitted that the June 1960 Globe, Arizona sighting "deals with
a little man although there is no craft involved ('Flying Saucer
Occupants', p. 128). Stressing "the veracity of the observer and
her husband's verification of her near-hysteria," and the close
resemblance of the Globe "entity" to the "little men" seen near
landed UFO's in Venezuela in 1954, Coral Lorenzen felt that
"despite the absence of a visible craft, the other three points
make this incident acceptable, in my opinion, as a =91UFO
occupant' sighting" ["UFO Occupants in the United States," pp.
160-161]. However, she also headed her summary of the Ryerson
girls' 1965 Renton, Waashington bean field encounter "Entities--
but no vehicle," ending with the observation that "No craft was
seen in connection with this incident" ['ibid.', p. 169].

The 1950's and early 1960's were a time when an
"extraterrestrial spaceman" or "Martian" interpretation seemed
the self-evidently obvious explanation for any strange humanoid,
more so than at any time earlier or later. The late 1940's, when
the "flying saucers" hit the headlines in the wake of Kenneth
Arnold's June 1947 Mount Rainier sighting of nine flying
whaisits, and the July 1947 crash of an Air Force spy balloon--
or *SOMETHING ELSE*?!--near Roswell NM, were the perfect time to
launch a popular mythos of technologically advanced visitors--
perhaps even invaders--from the skies/ We had just finished one
war very largely fought with massive air power, climaxing in the
atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We had won World War
II--but were now entering a "Cold War" with out former Soviet
ally, armed with who knew what secret high-tech super-weapons
captured from our and their former Nazi enemies--a "Cold War"
that might become all too "hot" any day. Atomic war with our
former Russian allies was a real possibility. We were also
entering the "Space Age," when real-life interplanetary travel
within the lifetime of many people then living was a serious
possibility for the first time in history. Reputable
"mainstream" popular magazines, quoting savants like Werner von
Braun, Hermann Oberth, Willy Ley, and Arthur C. Clarke, and not
just science-fiction "pulps" with lurid covers, published
lavishly illustrated articles on how we would build orbiting
space stations, and reach the Moon and Mars, before the end of
the 20th century. The cumulative evidence of all these
developments was to make extraterrestrial visits to Earth seem a
real, serious possibility to a large segment of the general
public--and the most obvious explanation of various curious
celestial phenomena.

All these social and cultural circumstances, well in place by
1947, only continued and deepened in the 1950's and early
1960's. The Soviet Sputnik launching, and America's commitment
to a "Space Race" with the Russians, made the Space Age
officially part of the "real world" rather than "science-
fiction." Space exploration enthusiasts like von Braun, Oberth,
Ley, and Clarke now seemed like true prophets more than ever.
The Cold War Communist threat, not realistically likely to go
away in the lifetime of anybody then living, made many of us all
the more willing to seriously consider the possibility of
*OTHER*, more cosmic, threats and subversions as well.

The UFO phenomenon, too, obligingly "escalated" itself. The
George Adamski type "contactees" were an easily dismissible
laughingstock, whom serious UFO researchers hated and despised
for making a serious mystery look ridiculous. However, there
were also the less easily dismissed reports, beginning to
proliferate in the mid-1950's, of furtive or even aggressive
dwarfish humanoid UFO occupants, who seemed more likely to just
possibly be the extraterrestrial "real thing" than the
contactees' benevolent, handsome "Space Brothers" spouting
pacifist, Theosophist, and "New Age" platitudes. In 1954-1955,
especially, the media were saturated with stories of bizarre
dwarf humanoids seen in conjunction with "flying saucers" by
dozens or scores of seemingly reliable witnesses in Europe--
especially France, Italy, and Belgium--and South America. In the
good old USA itself, too, the Sutton farmhouse between Kelly and
Hopkinsville, Kentucky, was besieged by aggressive, grotesque-
looking "little men" from a landed "flying saucer" on the night
of August 22, 1955.

Robert Hunnicutt and Margaret Symmonds did not actually see any
"flying saucers" at Branch Hill or Stockton in 1955. However,
they saw mysterious dwarfish humanoids very similar to those so
frequently encountered near "saucers" in Kentucky, South
America, France, and Italy. The same was true, a few years
later, of the pumpkin-headed dwarf seen by Coral Lorenzen's
friend near Globe, Arizona in 1960--and of the three men"
encountered in the Renton, Washington bean field by the Ryerson
sisters in 1965. No "saucer" was actually seen--but they seemed
so similar to familiar "saucer" creatures. Nothing seemed more
obvious or natural than to lump together the Branch Hill,
Stockton, Globe, or Renton reports with cases where similar
creatures were seen in conjunction with "saucers"!

Also, there were fewer non-extraterrestrial interpretations of
strange humanoids available to the general public, or even to
Fortean and paranormalist writers, in the 1950's and early
1960's than we have at our disposal now. The "ET" hypothesis
seemed to be the "only game in town" aside from debunking
skepticism. For one thing, we should recall, in the 1950's and
1960's the general public was far less "cryptid"-conscious than
is the case now, when books, articles, and websites on Bigfoot,
"Lake Monsters," Chupacabras, the West Virginia "Mothman," "big
cats," "mystery pumas," "Black Dogs,""frog-man," "reptile-men,"
and scores of other "mystery beasts" and "alien animals" compete
in the popular "true weird mysteries" market with those on UFO's
and abductions. Aside from a few pioneering proto-
cryptozoologists like Willy Ley, Bernard Heuvelmans, and Ivan
Sanderson, most people in the 1950's only knew about the
Himalayan "Abominable Snowman" and Scotland's "Nessie," maybe
also vague recollections of supposedly real-life 18th and 19th
century "sea serpent" sightings--joined in the late 1950's by
Bigfoot.

Likewise, the paraphysical, "psychic," "metaphysical," occult,
other-dimensional, and "ultraterrestrial" theories of UFO's,
aliens, and "cryptids" popularized by writers like John A. Keel
and Jacques Vallee wouldn't come into fashion until the late
1960's and early 1970', with Vallee's 'Passport to Magonia'
(1969) and Keel's .'Strange Creatures from Time and Space'
(1970) and 'UFO's: Operation Trojan Horse' (1970). Keel and
Vallee, followed by other writers in the 1970's and 1980's,
popularized the theory that modern encounters UFO's, "aliens,"
Bigfoot, and "Lake Monsters"might reflect a contemporary
manifestation of the entities or phenomena underlying
yesteryear's trolls, gnomes, fairies, elves, leprechauns, jinn,
angels, and demons. However, it just didn't occur to anybody in
the 1950's and early 1960's that our planet might be teeming
with all sorts of "little people," "otherfolk," "frog-men," and
"lizard-men" as long-standing features of our environment, such
as Forteans have become more familiar with in more recent post-
Keel, post-Vallee decades.

Cryptozoologist Loren Coleman has linked occult and
"metaphysical" theories linking Bigfoot to UFO's and aliens, and
Bigfoot, UFO's, and aliens alike to ghosts, spirits, demons,
fairies, and other-dimensional visitors, to the general cultural
and social "high strangeness" of the 1960's and 1970's in
'Bigfoot: The True Story of Apes in America' (New York: Paraview
and Simon & Schuster, 2003). Coleman's main focus is Bigfoot and
similar "mystery primates," but his historical sketch of
theories about them is equally applicable to the history of
theories about other "mystery critters." Coleman is skeptical of
such occult, paraphysical, or other-dimensional theories
connecting Bigfoot UFO's, aliens, ghosts, and spirits. For him,
Bigfoot is a real flesh-and-blood animal of an unknown
biological species, not a ghost, spirit, psychic projection,
thought-form, space alien, or visitor from the "fourth
dimension." He flatly declares ('Bigfoot!', p. 177): "And just
in case you are wondering, no, I don't think Bigfoot come from
UFO's or the collective unconscious."However, he notes the
popularity of such theories, and devotes a chapter on "High
Strangeness" to examining them. Such theories, he notes,
originated and proliferated in the 1960's and 1970's, a period
of general social and cultural "high strangeness." Almost all
the UFO-related Bigfoot cases, he shows, can be linked to those
times of "high strangeness," the researchers who emerged at that
time, and the often-cited books and cases from those days.
Coleman notes that he has placed "some of the 1970's Bigfoot
reports, for the first time, in a cultural and temporal
context," as the "significant point" he is "attempting to make"
in 'Bigfoot!'(Loren Coleman private e-mail to T. Peter Park,
September 24, 2003).

Bigfoot, Coleman observes, is not only "a creature of the wild,"
but also "often what people want to make of it--and it was
certainly so during one recent period of high strangeness.".In
the 1960's, he notes, "we all woke up and found the world had
grown decidedly weirder," with "the antiwar, peace, and hippie
movements," the "music revolution and new sexual freedoms," the
"breakdown of the Eisenhower doldrums and the shock of the JFK
assassinations," "the Beatles and Vietnam" ('Bigfoot!', p. 170).
"Something" happened "that changed us all," and "it altered the
landscape of Bigfoot studies too." From "the Patterson-Gimlin
film to the Minnesota Iceman," a "hint of this bizarre new age
was in the air." It was era when "several threads of the
inexplicable overlapped, danced about together, and merged,"
when "Bigfoot met UFO's, cattle mutilations, and other bizarre
imports from the world of the paranormal." It was, Coleman
feels, "an unfortunate marriage that still scars the field" of
Bigfoot research. "Most unfortunate of all" was "the mix of
UFO's and Bigfoot" (p. 170).

Coleman quotes Ufologist Jerome Clark, who noted in his 'High
Strangeness: UFO's from 1960 through 1979' (Detroit:
Omnigraphics, 1996) that this was a period when people spoke
"falsely or sincerely" of seeing "hairy bipeds" in conjunction
with UFO's ('Bigfoot!', p. 170). In the 1970's, many UFO
researchers--Peter Guttilla in California, Stan Gordon and
Berthold Schwarz in Pennsylvania, APRO director Coral Lorenzen,
Leonard Stringfield, Leo Sprinkle, Barbara Ann Slate, Alan
Berry, Andrew Collins, John S. Derr, R. Martin Wolf, Steven
Mayne, etc.--began discussing what they "saw as the overlapping
nature of Bigfoot and UFO reports...resulting in cleat-cut
Bigfoot accounts appearing in the UFO literature." In New York,
John A. Keel worked together the material he'd gathered in Point
Pleasant, West Virginia in 1966-1967 into his books 'Strange
Creatures from Time and Space' (1970) and 'The Mothman
Prophecies' (1975). In 'Strange Creatures', "typical of the new
wave of paperback books that would capture the mood of the
times," Keel "lumped Bigfoot, dog killings, Mothman, Men-in-
Black, and UFO's in the same vortex" (Coleman, 'Bigfoot!', pp.
170-171).

Keel introduced Jerome Clark to Coleman in 1969, and they
"carried on a lively exchange of stories and ideas." Coleman
himself began investigating reports of creatures with glowing
red eyes, such as those as those haunting the cornfields of
Enfield, Illinois, in 1973, while Clark was "digging into
airship reports and exploring fairylore and ufology." By the
mid-1970's, Clark and Coleman coauthored articles merging their
two fields of study, "full of straight data as well as
sociological and psychological assessments," including the "now
rejected Jungian hypothesis" set forth in their 'Creatures of
the Outer Edge' (New York: Warner Books, 1978). Thus, Coleman
"must plead to being partially responsible" himself, with Jerome
Clark, "for the amalgamation of Bigfoot and UFO's, which
happened in this era of =91high strangeness'" ('Bigfoot!', pp.
171-172).

"But today," Coleman continues (p. 172), "having reclaimed the
firmer zoological and anthropological foundations of hominology,
I reject such notions, as does Clark." In the late 1990's, Clark
looked back on the "UFO-Bigfoot connection," stating: "These are
huge suppositions, tied to small evidence. At this stage, given
the limitations of human knowledge, there is hardly anything
about Hairy Bipeds, or their possible connection with the UFO
phenomena, that can be stated with any degree of confidence"
(quoted in Coleman, 'Bigfoot!', p. 172).. Coleman himself "would
agree wholeheartedly," but also warns, "let's not toss out the
bona fide Bigfoot cases with the UFO bathwater." The UFO
literature, he notes, contains many "alleged UFO-Bigfoot
reports." Australian ufologist Marc Moravec even published 'The
UFO-Anthropoid Catalogue' in 1980, bringing together a number of
these alleged UFO-Bigfoot reports ('Bigfoot!', p. 172).

Ultimately, though, Coleman's assessment of UFO-Bigfoot reports
is skeptical. "Many Bigfoot-UFO cases," he believes, can be
"attributed to coincidence, mistakes, and outright hoaxing."
Witnesses of unusual phenomena, Coleman notes, "tend to group
all weird things they experience together, whether related or
not." A "puzzled witness" often "just doesn't know how to
differentiate one mystery event from another." Adding to the
problem, Coleman continues, was "the practice by ufologists in
the 1960's and 1970's of asking witnesses to recall everything
strange that had happened to them in the days before and after
their encounter." This "unfortunate situation," he feels, "
makes separating the valuable Bigfoot case from its UFO
underpinnings problematic at best." ('Bigfoot!', p. 176) .

There is a less negative converse, however, to the "high
strangeness" theories criticized by Loren Coleman. By suggesting
a possible connection between Bigfoot, UFO's, UFO occupants,
Mothman, and more traditional weirdies like ghosts, demons,
fairies, trolls, and "little people," the "high strangeness"
Fortean writers of the 1960's and 1970's familiarized the
Fortean and paranormalist reading public with the existence of a
surprisingly wide and diverse variety of bizarre humanoid
entities, some of them similar to those reported in UFO "Close
Encounters III," and others closely resembling traditional
folkloric descriptions of fairies, trolls, "little people," and
"merpeople" (mermaids and mermen), described by seemingly
reliable contemporary and recent eyewitnesses. Regardless of how
one explained such entities (as flesh-and-blood biological
creatures presumably sharing a common ultimate evolutionary
ancestry with more familiar animals, or as ghosts, spirits,
angels, demons, "elementals" "thought-forms," "psychic
projections,"temporarily materialized "archetypes" from the
Jungian "Collective Unconscious," or visitors from another
dimension), they seemed like old, quasi-permanent denizens of
our planetary environment, sharing our biosphere with 'Homo
sapiens', who have "always" been here with us all the time for
generations, centuries, or millennia--rather than simply recent
"high-tech" interplanetary or interstellar visitors from Mars,
Alpha Centauri, or Zeta Reticuli! The "high strangeness" writers
brought such creatures to our attention, starting in the late
1960's.

These "mystery creatures" include "merely animalistic" frog-men
and lizard-men who seem natural candidates for the attention of
the cryptozoologists who study Bigfoot, "mystery cars," "Lake
Monsters," and Chupacrabras. However, they also include more
puzzling entities with definite "civilized" or "technological"
traits. One of Robert Hunnicutt's "froglike"March 1955 Branch
Hill dwarfs held a dark stick or chain shooting off bluish-white
sparks. Margaret Symmonds' July 1955 Stockton "bug-eyed" little
"men" wore clothing, and one of them seemed to be digging into
the ground with some sort of stick. The pumpkin-headed June 1960
Globe, Arizona dwarf showed a light beaming out of its face when
in side view. Ellen and Laura Ryerson's August 1965 Renton,
Washington "men," like Mrs. Symmonds' Stockton dwarves, were
clothed, wearing purple jerseys and white shirts. All this is in
marked contrast to numerous "frog-man" and "lizard-man" reports
with no mention of clothes, tools, weapons, or gadgets.. Thus,
for instance, Robert Hunnicutt's own home town, Loveland, Ohio,
not too far from Branch Hill, was the home of the "Loveland
Frog," a 3- to 5-foot-tall leathery-skinned creature with a
frog-like or lizard-like face seen near the Little Miami River
in Loveland in the 1970's. There were reports of a large frog
living in that river going back to the 1950's, while in 1985 two
boys reportedly saw a frog the size of a big dog by the river.
It has been suggested that the "Loveland Frog" was actually an
iguana, or perhaps a monitor lizard. A "Lizardman" seen in New
Jersey in the 1970's, described as having a towering greenish
scaly body, reptilian face, bulging frog-like eyes, and broad
lipless mouth has also been tentatively identified as a possible
iguana or monitor lizard [Bord and Bord, 'Unexplained Mysteries
of the 20th Century', pp. 246-247, on "Loveland Frog" and New
Jersey "Lizardman"] Both the "Loveland Frog" and the New Jersey
"Lizardman" have been perceived in strictly cryptozoological
terms, with no suggestion of their being extraterrestrials from
a UFO.

Jacques Vallee listed a European "frog-man" encounter from the
1930's in his 'Passport to Magonia' Appendix on UFO landing
reports even though no UFO was mentioned. In the Fall of 1938
(or perhaps 1939), according to a personal communication to
Vallee, two persons saw a strange "frog-man" 1 meter (about 40
inches) tall at Juminda on the Estonian coast. The "frog-man"had
a round head, no neck, and a hump in front of the body. Its
mouth was a large, straight slit, the eyes were like smaller
slits, while its hands were normal. The creature's skin was
brownish-green, compared by the witnesses to imitation leather.
It walked in a peculiar "but elegant" fashion, its head waving
up and down while its legs moved "carefully." When pursued, the
creature accelerated very fast, with feet "fluttering." About
100 meters (325 feet) away from the witnesses, it vanished
completely. [Vallee, Passport to Magonia, Case 49, pp. 189-190].
Vallee took it for granted that the Juminda "frog-man" must have
been a UFO occupant, though at least from his description the
creature was no more "civilized" or "technological" than the
"Loveland Frog."

The Juminda "frog-man" resembles grotesque small humanoids seen
by Beryl Hickey and her father at Mandurah, Western Australia,
in their house one night in 1930, and by a man gathering
Christmas trees on December 15, 1956 in woods near Derry, New
Hampshire--in both cases, again with no mention of a UFO. The
Mandurah creature was about 20 inches tall, glistened as though
wet or covered with oil, and had pink skin, big ears, a wide
slit mouth, bulging eyes covered with a film and "perfectly
formed little hands and feet." It squeaked in fright when the
Hickey father captured and dragged it outside with a prawning
net. The Derry dwarf was green and naked, with a wrinkled skin
resembling elephant hide, a high domed head, ears like a
bloodhound's, eyes with a film like a snake's, merely two holes
for a nose, short arms and legs, hands like stumps, and feet
with no toes. It a screeched when the witness tried to catch it.
The witness then fled [Bord and Bord, 'Unexplained Mysteries of
the 20th Century', pp. 147, 151-152].

Just a few "revisionist thoughts" of mine on "Close Encounter
III" reports!

Best regards,
T. Peter <tpeterpark.nul>
Garden City South, LI, NY


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                     Little Men Frogmen & UFO Prehistory

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:04:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 06:47:24 -0400
Subject: Little Men Frogmen & UFO Prehistory


Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:21:25 -0700
From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
  To: forteana.nul
SubJ: FWD [forteana] Little Men, Frogmen, and UFO Prehistory


Dear Forteans,

From time to time, we have bizarre modern reports by seemingly
reliable witnesses of curious humanoid creatures that seem to
fall outside both the usual categories of UFO-related "aliens"
and the various hairy bipedal "man-apes" or "mystery primates"
resembling prehistoric hominids and popularly lumped together as
"Bigfoot" or "Yeti."

They are not reported in connection with UFO sightings, and do
not in the least even remotely resemble the accepted popular or
scientific reconstructions of what the Australopithecines, Homo
habilis, Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, or Neandertals
might have looked like. They seem to challenge the usual
theories both of believers in extraterrestrial visitors and of
believers in the survival into our own time of relict
populations of our own close evolutionary relatives. At the same
time, some of these bizarre humanoids do seem to bear some
resemblance to traditional folkloric descriptions of "little
people," fairies, elves, gnomes, and dwarfs.

A number of these truly anomalous humanoid sightings of bizarre
"little people" were summarized by British anomalist researchers
Janet and Colin Bord in their Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th
Century (Chicago: Contemporary Books,  1989) Others were cited
by French-American UFO'logist Jacques Vallee in Passport to
Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers (Chicago: Henry Regnery
Company, 1969).We may begin with the Bords' account (
Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th Century, pp. 146-147 ) of an
unusual encounter which took place in Farmersville, Texas in May
1913. It was not revealed to the world, however, until 1978, by
which time the witness was a grandfather. He stuck to his story
through intensive questioning, remembering the time he was
twelve years old, chopping cotton with his two brothers on the
family farm near Farmersville. They heard the dogs howling and,
when they went to investigate, found a little man only 18 inches
tall.

[He didn't seem to have on any shoes but I don't really remember
his feet. His arms were hanging down just beside him. He had on
a kind of hat that reminded me of a Mexican hat. It was a little
round hat that looked like it was built onto him. He didn't have
on any clothes. Everything looked like a rubber suit including
the hat.]

The dogs jumped on him and tore him to pieces, and he seemed to
have human internal organs. Next day when the boys visited the
spot where the bloody remains had lain, there was no trace of
them.[Alex Evans, "Encounters with Little Men," FATE, November
1978, pp. 83-85, quoted in Unexplained Mysteries, pp. 146-147).]

13-year-old Harry Anderson saw twenty little men near Barron,
Wisconsin, on a summer's night in 1919. Harry was  travelling in
a car with others in the Wisconsin countryside when the car ran
out of oil. Harry walked to a farm to fetch some, and as he was
walking back he saw twenty little men walking along towards him
in single file. They had bald heads and white skins, and wore
leather "knee-pants" held up by braces over their shoulders.
They were mumbling but not talking to each other, and they paid
no attention to the terrified boy.[Alex Evans, "Encounters with
Little Men," FATE, November 1978, p. 85, cited in  Unexplained
Mysteries, p. 147 ]

A little ET-like entity surprised an Australian family when it
unexpectedly appeared in their house one night in 1930, at
Mandurah in Western Australia. Beryl Hickey, who was a teenager
at the time, remembered the event clearly.

[It was the most frightening thing I had ever seen. My father,
who was religious, was terrified. He thought it was the work of
the Devil and threw a prawning net over it to drag it outside.
It had big ears, a wide slit mouth and glistened as though I was
wet or covered in oil. It stood about half a metre tall, with
bulging eyes covered with a film. [It was obviously not human,
yet it had perfectly formed little hands and feet and was pink
like a baby. It made a frightened squeaky noise when it was
caught under the net. Our father told us never to speak about it
or tell anyone. But I told a friend and she reminded me about it
after reading about the film]. [West Mail (Perth, Australia), 25
December 1982, reprinted in UFO Newsclipping Service, February
1983, No. 163, p. 12, quoted in Unexplained Mysteries, p. 147]

Beryl Hickey did not speak of her experience for many years, for
fear of ridicule. It was only the release of the film ET which prompted
her to speak about what she had seen: "I hadn't thought about it for
ages until I saw the film and I just wanted to let people know there
really might be funny things around."

Also see: "A Century of UFO," UFO Roundup, Dec. 1999, ed. Joseph
Trainor, cited on pp. 13-14 of 38 pp., in Godelieve Van
Overmeire,"Chronologie OVNI":

http://users.skynet.be/sky84985/chron7.html

Another weird dwarf was seen a few years later in Estonia. In
the Fall of 1938 (or perhaps 1939), according to a personal
communication to Jacques Vallee, two persons saw a strange
"frog-man" 1 meter (about 40 inches) tall at Juminda on the
Estonian coast. The "frog-man"had a round head, no neck, and a
hump in front of the body. Its mouth was a large, straight slit,
the eyes were like smaller slits, while its hands were normal.
The creature's skin was brownish-green, compared by the
witnesses to pegamoid (a  kind of plastic or imitation leather).
It walked in a peculiar "but elegant" fashion, its head waving
up and down while its legs moved "carefully." When pursued, the
creature accelerated very fast, with feet "fluttering." About
100 meters (325 feet) away from the witnesses, it vanished
completely. (Jacques Vallee, Passport to Magonia, Appendix, Case
49, pp. 189-190.

A bizarre green dwarf was seen in or near Derry, New Hampshire,
in December 1956, according to the Bords (pp. 151-152). This
"dwarf," only 2 feet tall, was seen by the Bords as very
different from the traditional Little People of Britain and
Ireland, who are much more human in appearance, and presumably
have no relationship (in the Bords' view) to the dwarf of this
and other accounts. It may have been related, however, to Beryl
Hickey's 1930 Australian "ET." The New Hampshire dwarf, seen at
Derry on 15 December 1956, was not very human in appearance. He
was green in colour, with a wrinkled skin like elephant hide,
and his head was high and domed. The ears were like a
bloodhound's, the eyes had a film over them like a snake's,
there were simply two holes for a nose. His arms and legs were
short, the hands like stumps and the feet lacking toes. Nor did
he have any clothes. The man who saw this dwarf was gathering
Christmas trees in a patch of woods. He watched it for twenty
minutes before trying to catch it, at which it made a screeching
sound, and the witness fled. In a different account, the witness
said it vanished when he bent to pick up a bundle. [Intcat 661,
in MUFOB New Series 9 (Winter 1977-78), p. 7, cited by the
Bords, pp. 151-152.].

"Little People," the Bords note (Unexplained Mysteries, p. 155)
usually refers to entities 4 feet or less in height, but
occasionally very tiny entities  are seen, like those 8 inches
in height seen on August 10, 1973 by four boys outside the town
of Ibague in Colombia. The boys were searching for botanical
specimens in a muddy riverbed, when they saw four small beings
standing under a little stone footbridge and apparently looking
for something in the mud. They were dressed in white, and had
tiny grey caps on their heads. As the boys walked towards them,
they disappeared "as though by magic." The boys searched the
place and found tiny footprints. [Gordon Creighton, "Tiny
Entities Reported in Colombia," Flying Saucer Review, Vol. 21,
No. 5, p. 33, cited by ther Bords, pp. 155, 322]

It was also a young boy, eight-year old Tonnlie Barefoot, who
first saw the tiny entity of Dunn, North Carolina, when he was
playing in a field of dried cornstalks near his home on 12
October 1976. He saw the little man "not much bigger than a Coke
bottle," dressed in black boots, blue trousers, and a blue shiny
top, with a black "German-type hat" with a pretty white tie. He
seemed to be reaching for something in his back pocket, then
froze, squeaked like a mouse, and ran off fast through the
cornstalks. He left sone footprints 2 1/4 inches long and 1 inch
wide with bootmarks in them. On October 25th, twenty-year-old
Shirley Ann McCrimmon also saw a little man, as she came home
from a party just before daybreak. He wore boots and a thin
garment, and his skin was light brown. He shone a tiny bright
yellow light across her eyes, and ran away when she screamed.
The dogs also barked at him. Footprints were again found, in
hard ground, but none in the soft ground where he had stood, and
in the cornfield the footprints ended abruptly. [Fred H. Bost,
"A Few Small Steps on the Earth & A Tiny Leap for Mankind?,"
Pursuit, Vol. 10, No. 2, pp. 50-53, cited by the Bords,
Unexplained Mysteries, pp. 155-157].

It was again youngsters who saw the little green entity of Arnold,
Pennsylvania,  in late February, 1981. Five boys aged eleven to sixteen
were spending their Saturday afternoon  in the railway yard when
eleven-year-old Chris saw the little creature squatting down with its
back to him. He crept up on it, determined to catch it. He grabbed it
and lifted it up, shouting for the others to help. It wriggled and
twisted and squealed so much he was forced to drop it, and it ran into a
drainpipe. The boys agreed that the strange creature was green in
colour, naked and without hair or fur, but with wrinkled "elephant" skin
which felt dry and rubbery, like elastic. It was just under 3 feet tall,
humanoid in shape, with nipples, large ears, and a tail one inch long,
and it walked upright on two legs. It seems to rather resemble the
2-foot-tall 1956 Derry, New Hampshire green dwarf.  [Robert A. Goerman,
"The Little Green Man Who Got Away," FATE, May 1982, pp. 61-65, cited in
Janet Bord & Colin Bord, Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th Century,
pp. 160-161].


Best regards,

T. Peter


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:37:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 06:51:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -


>Source: SpaceDaily.Com

>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html

>TERRADAILY
>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>05-04-04

>by Ben Bova
>for Astrobiolgy Magazine
>Moffett Field (SPX)

>I believe that life exists beyond the Earth. I believe that
>intelligent life must exist somewhere in the vast universe of
>stars and galaxies. I recognize that there is, as yet, no
>evidence to support this belief of mine.

>Precisely because I am a "believer," in this sense, I remain
>guardedly skeptical about claims of UFOs, alien abductions, and
>ancient astronauts. It is all too easy to fall for unsupported
>stories that tell us what we want to believe. I would like to
>see some scrap of hard, palpable evidence; maybe as much as a
>person would take to traffic court to prove he wasn't illegally
>parked when he got a ticket.

>I can relate three incidents in my own experience that have
>shaped my attitude about UFOs: my own UFO sighting, a laboratory
>analysis of a metal sample purportedly taken from a UFO, and an
>encounter with the redoubtable Erich Von Daniken, author of
>"Chariots of the Gods" and similar books.

<snip>

>That is how I feel about UFO reports. It would be wonderful to
>know that we are being visited by intelligent aliens. But I
>doubt that it's true.

Typical Bovean Bloviation.

Ironically, one of the best early multiple witness sightings
(Rogue River, May 24, 1949; case 10 of Special Report #14)
involved two witnesses from Moffett Field (Ames Aeronautical
Laboratory near San Francisco). I suppose this has skipped
Bova's notice.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                         Photo Strobing Night Object

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 22:08:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 08:18:18 -0400
Subject: Photo Strobing Night Object


Strobing Night Sky Object - Photo

I just received this report and a photo tonight on May 4, 2004.
Included with the report is the photo, plus a 2 mb video clip of
the object moving slowly across the sky. As it moves through the
sky it changes the most brilliant colors, or for a better word
it flashes at a fast rate of speed. The footage is truly
amazing. In the photo the witness made a large number of still
shots from the video clip and this is what you see below in the
photo.

The photo of the 48 different shots taken from the video clip
can be seen at:

http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php


Take care Brian

-----

Portland, Oregon
Date: Last week in April, 2004
Time: Between 9:00 and 11:00 p.m.

Hello Brian,

Here is something which you may want to get out to a wider
audience in whatever format can be done.

The last week in April skies were fair and clear around these
parts, in Portland, OR. On several nights between 9 and 11 pm I
saw some apparent star-like objects on the east or west horizon
which seemed to strobe in multiple colors. I could remember
seeing red and blue strobing lights with white either
accompanying or alternating with the red and blue.

While this was, I thought, an uncommon occurrence, I also took
some photos with the digital camera. The object did not show
much in the photo, even though 10x optical zoom, because the
strobing light was not much bigger than a small point of light.
On to Plan B.

I also have a 127mm diameter x 1250mm focal length Celestron
Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope to which the camera can be mounted.
With the camera-telescope combination , I can zoom from 31x to
310x power, all of this is optical zoom. At this level of zoom
you can begin to see more than a speck of light. I took some
regular digital photos, and some short video segments to show
the strobing light.

The camera & telescope was on a tripod so did not move (except
when I kicked it or made camera adjustments). I have attached
the short video here, and also the first 48 video still frames
which were cut and pasted into a single image. The top row of 8
images are the first eight frames, the 2nd row the second 8
frames, etc. All told there are about 3.1 seconds of time
represented by the 48 still frames, one every 1/15th second.

In the movie, the object appears to move to the upper left.
Since it is viewed thru a telescope without any mirrors, it has
to be rotated around 180 degrees so as not to appear upside down
and backwards. It actually moved to the lower right before me.

This particular object was taken at 9:32pm local time on 4-30-
04. The object was on the WSW horizon. I had to constantly track
it by moving the scope to the right in small increments. That
would make it's path travelled proceeding approximately to the
northwest.

In the 48 frame composite photo, the blue outlined frame in the
lower right corner is a copy of the very first frame, and I
pasted it there as a check for my printer to be sure that it
reproduced all the colors. This composite of 48 images has also
been resized to 2048 x 1536 to show more detail than the
original still frame size of 320 x 240.

There is an amazing array of colors and shapes displayed, much
more than could be seen even looking through the telescope. The
reason I believe this is so is because the eye-brain connection
cannot process all the data so quickly as can a video camera.
The brain only reports back what limited data that it can
process.

Some questions I have are,

1. What is it?

2. What is it doing?

3. What is signified by the different colors?

4. Is it in our atmosphere (below 200 miles), or beyond it?

5. The object seems to be flinging something off of it. What
could this be?

6. There seem to be traces of apparent gaseous matter around
some of the frames.

7. How big is it? It covers about 12 pixels of width in the 320
x 240 pixel frame, at 310x power.

8. Has anyone else captured pictures of a similar object?

9. Could it be a satellite?

10. If we knew how far away it was, a good estimate could be
made of the object's size and travel rate.

11. What kind of technology can strobe this fast continuously?

12. Whose technology is it?

Thanks for looking,

Thank you to the witness for the report, video footage and still
photo.

Brian Vike,
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                   UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:22:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 12:26:37 -0400
Subject: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:37:36 -0400
>Subject: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>Source: SpaceDaily.Com

>>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html

>>TERRADAILY
>>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>>05-04-04

>>by Ben Bova
>>for Astrobiolgy Magazine
>>Moffett Field (SPX)

<snip>

>Typical Bovean Bloviation.

>Ironically, one of the best early multiple witness sightings
>(Rogue River, May 24, 1949; case 10 of Special Report #14)
>involved two witnesses from Moffett Field (Ames Aeronautical
>Laboratory near San Francisco). I suppose this has skipped
>Bova's notice.

Bova has been writing nonsense about UFOs at least since an
ANALOG Brass Tacks article in December 1975.

A couple of years back I did a MUFON Journal column about more
recent, but equally unenlightened, comments. He has refused to
learn anything about the subject, just regurgitates the same
nonsense as noted above.

I discussed the false reasoning, false claims of Bova, Isaac
Asimov, and Arthur C. Clarke in my MUFON 1977 Conference Paper
"Science Fiction, Science and UFOs" which is the first of 4
papers in my "Flying Saucers: Four Scientific Papers", 29 pages,
double column, available for $4. Including postage, from UFORI,
POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958.

The other 3 are "Fiction, Fact and Flying Saucers","A Scientific
Approach to Flying Saucer Behavior" and "The Case for the ET
Origin of Flying Saucers".

Somebody could probably write a good science fiction story about
a conspiracy of Science Fiction writers to disinform the public
about flying saucers... throw in a conspiracy about certain
Academic Scientists working with them, and it would be a prize
winner.


Stan Friedman
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                   Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed,  5 May 2004 08:34:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 13:03:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Shell


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 22:08:11 -0700
>Subject: Photo Strobing Night Object

>The photo of the 48 different shots taken from the video clip
>can be seen at:

>http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php


Hey, looks like our old buddy from Nellis is still out and about!
Pretty colors.

http://www.roswellproof.com/Nellis_compare.html







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                              UFO Hall Of Fame

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:35:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 13:07:22 -0400
Subject: UFO Hall Of Fame


I received so many e-mails about doing this, I decided the time
was here. A lot of people e-mailed saying it was great to have
a UFO Hall of Shame showing all the idiots in the field, but
that I should also include those reliable and time tested
contributors to the field. So, I give you the beginning of.....

The UFO Hall of Fame

UFOWATCHDOG.COM presents the good of Ufology... the good guys
are out there.

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/fame.html

Are all people involved with UFOs idiots pushing fantasy and/or
trying to get into your wallet? Hardly. There is a core group of
people that have done this field much credit. Unfortunately,
they mostly go unrecognized for their work, as the idiots out
there always seem to get more press for their ridiculous and
sensationalistic claims.

E-mail your nominations to ufowatchdog.nul


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                 Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:26:14 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:48:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Balaskas


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 22:08:11 -0700
>Subject: Photo Strobing Night Object

>Strobing Night Sky Object - Photo

<snip>

>http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php

<snip>

>Portland, Oregon
>Date: Last week in April, 2004
>Time: Between 9:00 and 11:00 p.m.

<snip>

>The last week in April skies were fair and clear around these
>parts, in Portland, OR. On several nights between 9 and 11 pm I
>saw some apparent star-like objects on the east or west horizon
>which seemed to strobe in multiple colors. I could remember
>seeing red and blue strobing lights with white either
>accompanying or alternating with the red and blue.

If the night skies are clear and someone sees the same star-like
objects on the horizon several nights in row, then what they are
are seeing is just that - stars! The rapid strobing effect and
the colours are simply the result of starlight refracting
through the thicker unsteady and not very uniform atmosphere at
lower elevations. These stars observed under high magnification
are especially pretty as they rapidly change their size, shape,
brightness and colours!

Having much training and experience in astronomy and atmospheric
science, in 1981 I was hired by the Saudi Arabian Government
through the National Research Council of Canada to help them
find the best site, if any, for the proposed large observatory
they wished to build somewhere in the Arabian peninsula. What
the witness saw, with and without his telescope, are very
familar sights to experienced obervers of the night sky
including myself.

The images of the object taken with his digital camera along
with all the other important details provided by the witness
(such as having to move his high power telescope to the right in
small increments) are consistent with his initial suspicion that
the object looked like a star.

With more people using telescopes, digital cameras, and other
technological devices, there will be many more such
misidentified things in the sky reported as UFOs.

Thanks to the witness and Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO
Research, for sharing this latest UFO report with us and for
inviting us to help with its identification.


Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                UFO Mission Accomplished: Earthlings Get Bush

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 08:27:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:50:47 -0400
Subject: UFO Mission Accomplished: Earthlings Get Bush



Source: The Star - Cape Town South Africa

http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=328&fArticleId=426078

May 5, 2004


UFO mission accomplished: Earthlings get Bush  May 5, 2004

By James Clarke

It is significant that since we have begun travelling to the
moon and sending vehicles to Mars nobody is seeing UFOs
(unidentified flying objects) any more.

Forty years ago everybody was seeing flying saucers and women
were being whisked off in them to such an extent it was almost
impossible to get a date. People were practically queuing at
newspaper offices to show us pictures they had taken of UFOs.

One lady, who was forever being lifted into spaceships by her
waist by amorous Venusians, showed me several pictures she had
taken of flying saucers.

"But that's a straw sun hat that somebody's spun into the air,"
I said. "And this one's a Chevrolet hubcap!"

She was unabashed and I realised years later that, unwittingly,
she probably invented the Frisbee.

One young woman claimed to have been seduced by various aliens.
She went for rides, if you'll excuse the phrase, in space ships
whose control room always glowed a greenish colour.

The men (there were never women aboard flying saucers as far as
I recall) always dressed in tight silver suits. She even
persuaded a woman's magazine to publish her adventures with some
very hazy pictures.

And remember Paul Adamski and his book Flying Saucers Have
Landed? Whenever he went into the Arizona Desert (for flying
saucers never land in people's gardens or, say, in one's local
Pick 'n Pay car park) he would hardly have time to put his
shades on when the first flying saucer would land.

As I say, nowadays flying saucers have disappeared. Perhaps they
achieved their mission.

Perhaps, in the night as we all slept, their occupants sucked
our brains out and replaced them with gizmos so that they can
control us from Jupiter.

Perhaps this accounts for George Bush and quite a few other
politicians. It could also account for how I feel when I wake up
some mornings.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 5

                Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:12:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:53:01 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:22:02 -0300
>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:37:36 -0400
>>Subject: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>>Source: SpaceDaily.Com

>>>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html

>>>TERRADAILY
>>>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>>>05-04-04

>>>by Ben Bova
>>>for Astrobiolgy Magazine
>>>Moffett Field (SPX)

><snip>

>>Typical Bovean Bloviation.

<snip>

>Somebody could probably write a good science fiction story about
>a conspiracy of Science Fiction writers to disinform the public
>about flying saucers... throw in a conspiracy about certain
>Academic Scientists working with them, and it would be a prize
>winner.

AMEN!, Stan. Ever since the early 1950s I have noticed the
rabidly anti-UFO demeanor of science fiction writers and sci-fi
fans.

Could it be that they consciously or unconsciously fear UFO fact
has caught up with or exceeded the imagination contained in
their escape from the real world?

And, much to my dismay, the uninformed, hearing of my
involvement with UFO studies, all too often say, "Oh! You must
be a sci-fi fan! Who's your favorite author?"

I simply respond, "I don't like to waste my time with that,
since UFO reality is stranger, more interesting, and far more
important than such fiction!"

Those anti-UFO sci-fi writers are going to have to 'eat crow' someday, when
the alien evidence comes home to roost above their egotistical heads.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

                           Filers Files #20 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:25:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:11:37 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #20 - 2004



Filers Files #20 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern

May 5, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --

If photos don't show up in email, try

www.georgefiler.com/  "Weekly files" Views


Sightings Increase Worldwide

This week's files review: Travel between Stars Takes Several
Weeks, Thirty-Billion Earths In Our Galaxy, Brown Dwarfs Prove
High Number of Planets, Are You a Martian Who Came to Colony
Earth? Fresh Doubt on the Origin of Modern Man, New York =96
Flying Triangle Pennsylvania - Two Discs, Delaware - Flying
Wing, Washington, D.C. - "Orb" Above Our Aircraft, North
Carolina - Red Fireball Near Fort Bragg, Florida - Disk Lands In
Ocean, Ohio - Ball Traveling Against Heavy Winds,  Indiana -
Lights in Formation,  Illinois - Bright Glaring Objects,
Kentucky =96 Strange Shape with Lots of Color, Mississippi =96 Disk
on TV,  Louisiana - Clear Sphere Seen, Arkansas - Orange Lights
over Nuclear Reactor,  Missouri =96 Flying Triangle, Colorado -
Silver UFO Hovers, Arizona =96 Several UFO's Seen, California =96
UFO image and Flying Triangle, Washington =96 Photo and Diamond
Shaped Objects, Canada - Black Flying Triangle, Mexico =96Flying
Triangle Over the Ocean, UK/Scotland - Two Spaceships, UK/Wales
- Three Spherical Objects, Macedonia =96 UFO Video, Iran =96 Flying
Saucer Fever, South Africa =96 Flying Triangle, New Zealand =96
Stick Like Object.


JPL image of UFO flying over Mars taken by Rover at strange
sunset.

Travel Between Stars Takes Several Weeks

Most scientists believe there is intelligent life in the
universe, but the reason UFOs cannot be here is because of the
great distance between solar systems. NASA scientist Paul Hill
in his book "Unconventional Flying Objects" provides the
mathematical formulas to show that the UFOnauts travel time
between planets in nearby solar systems is less than it took for
our ancestors to reach America. The equations have been checked
by the Langley Research Center and interstellar mission profiles
for the UFOnauts can take only a few weeks or months. For
example Paul Hill states, "It is possible for an interstellar
trip to be very short. The trip from our nearest neighbor, Alpha
Centuri, a triple star system 4.3 light years away, made by
accelerating at 140 g to av/c of 0.9999 is accomplished from a
standing start to a standing finish in 6 weeks, 0.115 year." The
fast trip, v/c =3D 0.9999, cuts all the travel times from stars
within 100 light years to less than one year.  Eridani and Ceti
are only about 2 years away to the UFOnaut.=94 (P. 272)

Editor's Note: Physicists now feel that space travel can be
shortened with worm holes, that gravity can compress or bend
space, and the speed of light is not the actual speed limit. In
1954, German Rocket Scientists and other experts did a study of
UFO's and concluded there were unquestionably alien space ships
in our atmosphere.


Thirty Billion Earths in Our Galaxy

Over a hundred solar systems have now been found and probably
half have Earth like planets that could support intelligent
life. Robert Roy Britt a Senior Science Writer says, NASA's
Kepler Mission to find Earth-like planets has gotten the green
light and will launch in 2006, to monitor 100,000 stars for
telltale dips in light indicating an Earth-sized planet in an
Earth like orbit.  Billions of Earth like planets have the
potential to support life. New calculations by Lineweaver and
Daniel Grether, both of the University of New South Wales in
Australia, feel the formation of Earth, was orchestrated or
affected by Jupiter, the largest planet with by far the bulk of
the solar system's mass, excepting the Sun. "Our solar system is
Jupiter and a bunch of junk," as Lineweaver puts it. Jupiter is
Earth's protector. In the past Earth was pummeled by asteroids
and comets, making it difficult for life to take hold, but it
could have been much worse without Jupiter.


Brown Dwarfs Prove High Number of Planets

The Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics announced that a
study of brown dwarf stars suggests more planets may exist than
predicted. Astronomers analyzing brown dwarf stars have
determined that many of the failed stars are ringed by
protoplanetary disks of dust and gas just like true stars. The
finding suggests a high percentage of stars have planets or
solar systems similar to our own. Millions or even billions of
planets may exist. Many of these planets are billions of years
older than Earth.  The technology of intelligent life many
millions of years older than ours would appear as magic. If Ben
Franklin walked into your home, the computer, TV and your
automobile would seem like magic to him. Therefore, it seems
reasonable to assume advanced life forms exist and have the
technology to visit Earth.


Are You a Martian Who Came to Colony Earth?

Recent findings by the Filer Research Institute infer that
intelligent life existed on Mars when an asteroid hit and formed
Bonneville Crater and estimated 100,000 years ago.  Martians
seeing the loss of their atmosphere could have developed the
technology to travel to their closest neighboring planet.  It
would have been a comparatively easy trip to blast off with half
the gravity of Earth from Mars to reach us.  Let us assume the
Martian=92s developed a craft with the capability or our own
1960=92s craft the X-15 and eventually reached Earth about 50,000
years ago when the relatively primitive Neanderthals roamed our
planet. Neanderthals lived in primitive single family groups and
killed small solitary animals, because they were unable to join
together into large groups.

Cave paintings from Altamira, Spain with likeness of UFO.

Then a giant leap forward occurred about 40,000 or more years
ago when intelligent life on Earth suddenly made a giant leap
forward when Modern Man (humans) suddenly appeared.
Mitochondrial DNA from three Neanderthal fossils has been
sequenced, confirming that Neanderthals and modern humans
represent deep and separate evolutionary lineages. Soon after,
Neanderthals just as suddenly died off and were replaced by
humans with advanced new DNA.

We can make the assumption that Modern Man is related to an
influx of space visitors that probably carried micro-organisms
and disease that wiped out the Neanderthals.  The humans almost
immediately formed groups to hunt large animals.

Some of the first human settlements are found in South Africa,
interestingly near the best gold mines on Earth according to Dr
Lee Berger "In the Footsteps of Eve: The Mystery of Human
Origins".

Ancient Sumerian records claim Mars needed gold flakes to save
its atmosphere.  In other parts of the world such as France,
humans appeared who often lived inside or next to caves and
painted artistic cave drawings that include UFO like images.
Below is the so called Chinese Horse in the Lascaux, France with
possible UFO flying above.

France is also noted for its iron ore, potash, and coal. The
cave area has tungsten, fluorspar and uranium. This Upper
Paleolithic period was a time with much greater technological,
artistic, and ritual complexity than had ever been seen on
Earth.  Paleontologists have discovered a preponderance of
specialized blade tools, and the appearance of art, symbolism
and human burials accompanied by rich adornments of shells,
bone, antler, and ivory beads.  It is interesting to note that
similar burial mounds, pyramids, and temples are found on both
Mars and our Earth.

Mitochondrial DNA from three Neanderthal fossils has been
sequenced, confirming that Neanderthals and modern humans
represent deep and separate evolutionary lineages and probably
could not produce fertile offspring.

Fresh Doubt on the Origin of Modern Man

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, USA published a
paper by Gregory Adcock and colleagues, reporting that sequences
of ancient mitochondrial DNA had been recovered from 10
Australian fossil humans. While 9 of them fitted within known
human variation, it was claimed that the oldest sequence, from
the 60,000 year old Mungo 3 fossil, was distinct from those of
recent humans, and cast doubt on the theory that modern humans
had originated in Africa. Further commentaries and media
coverage claimed that the results in fact supported the
multiregional model of human origins. The Independent 2001
http://www.millennium-debate.org/ind9janu9.htm.

Editor's Note: The present theory of the ascent of man claims a
massive change in species and DNA based on Darwin's Theory of
Evolution occurred by chance creating modern man. I suggest
that, if modern man can be traced to multiple locations at
roughly the same time around the Earth, such as France,
Australia, and South Africa it would indicate an advanced
Martian human pecies landed in multiple places on Earth and
flourished.


New York =96 Flying Triangle

BETHPAGE =96 The witness decided to take a look at the sky when he
spotted a big airplane in the distance flying west towards J. F.
K. in New York City on April 20, 2004, at 8:30 PM.  He then
looked south and noticed three triangle white lights flying
north not far from a large airplane. It did not make any sound
and the lights were steady. I ran inside to get my camera but by
then it disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport


Pennsylvania - Two Discs

FORD CITY -- On Friday, April 9, 2004, at about 9:15 PM, a
married couple was sitting in their hot tub, relaxing and
looking at the stars and the husband said "look at this coming."
They observed two disc shaped objects that looked like two
plates or saucers standing on end. They were traveling at a very
high rate of speed from east to west as if racing each other.
One was a small distance behind the other but, they crossed
directly over us and the gap between them closed and they were
side by side. The witness states, =93Never have I witnessed
anything travel at such a high rate of speed and about the same
height as commercial jets. The sky was very clear and full of
stars. The objects were an orange color, with no flashing lights
but were illuminated, not real bright, but like a glow. Thanks
to Peter Davenport


Delaware - Flying Wing

ELSMERE =96 The witness was walking to his car at midnight when he
turned to his left and over the trees from Vilone Park flew a
wing shaped flying object on April 21, 2004. It looked like it
had the wingspan of a B-52H and it had a solid non blinking red
light underneath. The witness states, =93I turned on the FAA band
on my scanner in my car and no such major cargo aircraft with
that span were over Delaware Airspace at that time.=94  I grew up
in a military family, but since I lived in MD and had been a
witness to the Waldorf UFO in 2002, I am quite aware of what a
UFO is and what it isn't. Thanks to Peter Davenport


Washington, D.C. - "Orb" Above Aircraft

The witness was traveling back home from trip to Washington D.C.
and was observing air traffic out his aircraft window on April
15, 2004, at 4:44 PM, when he noticed suddenly elevated contrail
activity.  So he started searching the sky for unknowns.  He
spotted what he thought was Venus, except that it was brighter.
Our Captain reported our altitude was 35,000 feet and so this
object was about 50 to 60,000 feet. It was either at a
standstill or was moving very slowly, because we passed it
within a couple of minutes. Our flight was steady, and we did
not bank and the distant cloud cover provided a horizon-line for
comparison. This seemed important because the object moved from
the front left of my view, slightly rising then lowering, then
moving to the right, and then out of my view.

The witness states, =93It was a bright, bluish-tinted orb and
seemed reflective and was much brighter than the surrounding sky
and I was able to get off one shot with my camera, before my
camera's battery died.=94 Upon reviewing the shot, when I returned
home, one can see that it appears more like a cigar than an orb.
During the flight all the other aircraft left a contrail behind
them, but this craft left nothing that I could see, nor in the
photo. It was flying much higher than we were but moving much
slower and barely moving. Thanks to Peter Davenport


North Carolina - Fireball Near Fort Bragg

FAYETTEVILLE =96 The 37 year old witness was in his front yard
looking at stars in a clear sky when he saw a small blinking
light almost directly overhead that looked like a plane.  About
one minute behind was a second plane flying north on April 9,
2004, at 9:10 PM. Suddenly, an orange-red fireball that left a
trail like a meteor flew under the first plane.  It was the size
of a dime at arm's length and traveling in the opposite
direction of the planes from the direction of Fort Bragg. The
witness states, =93The fireball passed the first plane and
vanished and I figured it was a meteor but then it reappeared
and passed under the second plane and vanished again.=94 I waited
and it reappeared again and traveled like a stone skipping on
water that would vanish every time it hit the water. It did this
a total of five times and was gone almost making the horizon.
The object went from directly over head to the horizon in less
than 5 seconds. There was no sound. The planes did not change
direction afterward.


Florida - Disk Lands In Ocean

ST. AUGUSTINE =96 An hour after the above sighting a golden disk
was seen to travel from north to south at a high rate of speed
on April 9, 2004, at 10:15 PM. Then it slowed dramatically and
seemed to land in the ocean and slowly sink below the surface.

ORLANDO =96 An oval shaped object was seen between two jet
aircraft, on April 16, 2004, at 6 PM. A gold looking oval shaped
object that made no vapor trail was seen in the southwest
evening sky.  The sun was shinning off all three craft. The two
jet aircraft kept moving to north. The sky was clear of clouds
and the object was visible for about 60 seconds.

((NUFORC Note: We spoke via telephone with this witness, and
found him to be exceptionally objective and eloquent in his
description of the object. He seemed quite credible to us. He is
a federal public employee, and occupies a position in the
government requiring considerable technical acumen, and high
reliability. PD))


Ohio - Ball Traveling Against Heavy Winds

BEAVER CREEK =96 The witness was sitting outside when he saw a
flying white sphere about the size of a large pea at arm's
length on April 18, 2004, at 3 PM. There was a gusting wind from
west to east and he saw one of those really big balloons that
are used by car lots to hold up long streamers. The object did
not look metallic, had no external lights, and was just a white
ball shaped object. It could have been one of those balloons,
but it was defying those major gusts of wind by flying from
south to north. And as it bobbed up and down along its path, it
was generally going down (not up like a loose balloon would). I
lost sight of it as it passed over a hill.


Indiana - Lights in Formation

BROOKSTON =96 A married couple was returning home from dinner when
they noticed these lights again on April 16, 2004, at 8:50 PM...
This time they were very close to the ground -- probably within
a mile from the couple. The husband remarked, "There are those
lights again!" The wife says, =93I saw three very large
yellow/orange orbs with about three smaller lights around the
outside of the larger ones in a triangular pattern.=94 However, my
husband was able to see them better and saw four bright lights
with the smaller lights on the outside of them. He also saw a
much larger light above these lights which appeared to be closer
than the other four. The smaller four lights came on at the same
time the larger light came on and then faded. We drove slowly
home and as we pulled into our garage, I looked behind me just
in time to see three large yellow/orange lights in a horizontal
line about 10-20 degrees above the horizon. They came on from
left to right and faded from left to right in a period of a few
seconds. This was our third sighting in a year's time in this
same area.


Illinois - Bright Glaring Objects

VILLA PARK =96 The witness was doing homework and saw a bright
flash at 9:10 PM, while looking out his window from his desk on
April 12, 2004.  He states, =93I saw two bright lights suspended
in the air about 100 feet up, that generated a motor sound, and
then they suddenly bolted away, but five minutes later I heard a
lawnmower like sound for another ten minutes. I realized that
the sound was generated from the glaring lights in the sky
outside my window. At that point I began to think it was some
sort of UFO as the bright lights began to shimmer a bit and then
all of a sudden bolted away. I felt a sense of presence like I
never have before."


Kentucky =96 Strange Shape with Lots of Color

MT. WASHINGTON -- On April 18, 2004, at 7 PM, a strange shape
with lots of color was over us for about thirty minutes.  We
watched and were shocked as it changed shape, it flew near
planes but didn=92t even touch them. We called some friends in
another part of town and they saw it, too. It was like watching
us, but it was cool and different but we still don=92t know what
it was. Thanks to Peter Davenport


Mississippi =96 Disk on TV

JACKSON -- Lisa McDaniel writes, =93I was checking the WAPT-TV
weather cam and saw this UFO! I had saved the two pictures but
unfortunately you can't do that with a web cam shot without it
automatically refreshing itself; at least not this web cam.=94 I
have already contacted the station to see if they have the still
shots by any chance. At any rate, at 12:15 p.m. central/standard
time, May 3rd 2004, there was a silver disk over Jackson, MS,
just to the left of the Standard Life Building (the tallest
building in the picture) and about midway up. I'm just really
disappointed about this! In both of the pictures, however, the
second one was dated 12:21 p.m., so just minutes later...and it
was GONE! It is a gorgeous, sunny, clear day and not a cloud in
the sky and no rain whatsoever! Thanks to Lisa McDaniel


Louisiana - Clear Sphere Seen

KENNER =96 The witness was driving home from work and was watching
an airliner taking off from the airport while exiting the
interstate on April 15, 2004.  At 5:15 PM, the witness noticed
something shining well above the jet. He states, =93I saw a small
sphere that was almost invisible, but was reflecting sunlight
and I could see the outline that was like the camouflage in the
=91Predator=92 movies.=94 I saw it for about ten seconds and looked
down to see where the traffic was. When I looked back up, I
couldn't find it again.=94 Thanks to Peter Davenport


Arkansas - Lights Over Nuclear Reactor

RUSSELVILLE =96 On April 15, 2004, at 10:11 PM, as the witness got
his mail he saw two large orange balls of light directly above
his house about 30 degrees up and over the Arkansas Nuclear 1
Reactor about two miles from my location. He states, =93I watched
as the two lights split into three, then four and then
disappeared completely.=94 I do not know how long they were there
since I only caught the apparent end of the display.

Missouri =96 Flying Triangle

ASHGROVE -- About 10:40 PM, on April 16, 2004, the witness saw a
triangle shaped moving object  dart up and down and from side to
side. It had a white light in the center, with a red light on
the front, and two blue lights on the back. At arm=92s length it
was about the size of a half dime. The light continued to blink
or flash throughout the time we watched. The center light was
about the size of a cigarette and the craft stayed at about the
same height, when not "bouncing" until it faded from sight 27
minutes later. It stood on end so we could see all four lights
at the same time. We saw two commercial jets fly to the west of
it. Thanks to Peter Davenport

Colorado - Silver UFO Hovers

DENVER =96 The observer was pumping gas in Aurora when he saw a
silver and very bright object in the sky far above Denver, on
April 16, 2004, at 5:45 PM. His girl friend also viewed the
object as it remained stationary for twenty minutes and then
sped away heading north. It was 80 degrees high form the horizon
and seemed very high up. Thanks to Peter Davenport

Arizona =96 Several UFO's Seen

PHOENIX =96 A large white saucer-type aircraft was spotted
hovering at 9:30 PM, for several minutes and then disappeared on
April 17, 2004.  The witness states, =93My grown daughter and I
saw one oblong saucer-like aircraft hovering in the sky giving
off a very bright white glow that appeared to have smaller white
lights around the outer perimeter. It was distinctly NOT an
airplane or blimp. It appeared to turn sideways after a few
moments which made the profile a slender oval in the sky and
then it disappeared. We both could not believe our eyes as we
watched.

PHOENIX -- At 10 AM, I heard my neighbor knocking on my window
When I went out side I saw a white cigar like object in the sky
it was hard to look at because it was so close to the sun on
April 18, 2004.


California =96 Flying Triangular Object


MERCED -- The witness was driving north on I-5, with his parents
and around 12:30 AM, on April 14, 2004, they noticed an odd pair
of lights. He states, "I first noticed it when the object was
vertical with only two corners visible like viewing a triangular
block from the side." The small triangular object had round
circular and cycled lights on three corners. To visualize one
set of lights, imagine a cross section of a pipe with many
lights making the circle. These lights alternated like Christmas
lights and looked like the electricity was moving through them.
It hovered over the highway for maybe 30 seconds and quickly
sped off behind the overpass.  As I approached the overpass it
flew speeding back over the highway and hovered very low. It
actually passed right in front of my car twice and then hovered
off to the left and shined a light right at me from the right
hand side. This light came from one of the sides, not from one
of the corners of the object as I drove 80 mph. I saw it for
probably close to a minute or two total but it seems longer.
It was 3 to 5 feet in length and definitely not wider than my
Civic. However it had great agility and speed and it was silent.


MODESTO =96 R. David Anderson writes, =93I took this picture on
Friday evening, April 20, 2004, as I was sitting in the backyard
with my new digital camera ready with telephoto lens.  A high
flying airplane, making no sound, attracted my attention, and I
began to snap pictures. When I downloaded the pictures, I found
these strange objects which appear to be skirting the plane.
Tonight, after taking these pictures, a military plane was
flying real low over my house, making circles several times
overhead before moving off to the West. It was so close it shook
our house and frightened us.

Raw image of two ufos chasing a plane.  Thanks to R. David
Anderson Puppysonny1


Washington =96 Photo and Diamond UFO

CARNATION --Three diamond shaped objects in a triangular
formation were observed flying northeast on April 11, 2004, at 8
PM. The craft were silent, and maintained the exact formation
across the sky.  The observer is very familiar with all natural
phenomenon such as satellites, space junk re entry, meteors etc
and has been viewing the skies for decades. The craft were very
bright white and appeared about the size of Venus would to the
naked eye.

MILLER BAY -- Annamarie Johnstone, Photographing chemtrails
above, Kitsap County during the morning of March 14, 2004, I
discovered this craft, that was not seen visually, when the film
was developed. A colorless ionization layer is apparent around
the object. Thanks to Annamarie Johnstone


Canada - Black Flying Triangle

CHURCHBRIDGE, Saskatchewan.-- My stepson and wife were driving
down the grid road 9 km east of Yorkton when we saw what looked
like an oddly shaped fighter jet coming at us fairly low to the
road at 1:30 PM, on April 20, 2004. We yielded basically in
stunned fashion when the object seemed so slow, almost to a
halt, 20 feet in front of our Suburban. The object was a black
triangle with no apparent windows and on the bottom was one
large light in each of the three corners. It rotated so a
different angle was facing forward and took off in a blur over
top of our car. It was as if the object went straight up once it
came to view and vanished into the sky.


Mexico =96Flying Triangle Over the Ocean.

CANCUN =96 A couple was looking at the Gulf of Mexico from their
balcony at the Hotel Riu Cancun at 2 AM, on April 20, 2004 and
saw a flying triangle hovering and illuminating the night sky.
The distance was hard to determine but I could hear the sound of
it breaking the wind.  We stood there in amazement as the object
darted into the clouds and then it faded away. They ran to tell
their friends across the hallway and they all ran out to their
balcony to see if it could be seen again. After a couple of
minutes we spotted it again, but not as close as the initial
sighting, now it appeared as an illuminating circular object. It
seemed more energetic then before because it was speeding left
to right zigzagging in out of the clouds. It maneuvered in the
sky for a good hour.


UK/Scotland - Two Spaceships

EDINBURGH -- At 1:05 AM on Wednesday 21st of April, I was
standing outside my house having a cigarette looking to the
north eastern sky from my home town Livingston, when I saw two
dots of lights suddenly shoot downward from the cloudy sky. They
were moving at an incredible speed and they were keeping almost
the same distance running parallel to each other. They turned
sharply and came parallel to the horizon and went on for a
couple of seconds, during which they both took another short
dive and came back level again. From there, they seemed to shoot
back up into the sky and vanished back above the clouds and
there was no sound at all! I have never seen anything move that
fast in my life. They were illuminating the clouds they were
flying under.


UK/Wales - Three Spherical Objects

CARDIFF -- Three spherical objects silver in color as reflected
in the setting sun were seen on April 18, 2004, at 7 PM. All
three were flying in a triangular formation. The spherical
object at the rear bottom end of the formation broke off and
moved at high speed in front of the other two and disappeared.
Two seconds later the other two objects disappeared.


Macedonia =96 UFO Video

SKOPJE --Macedonian National television has shown a video
material of the object and stated that Macedonian air force has
no flights at that time over the city on April 21, 2004, at 8
PM... I'm not a witness of the event. Thus I can=92t give you any
other info.


Iran =96 Flying Saucer Fever

TEHRAN =96 Numerous UFO sightings are being reported over Iran.
Fanciful cartoons of alien spacecraft have adorned the front
pages of newspapers while state television on Wednesday showed a
sparkling white disc it said was filmed over Tehran on Tuesday
night.  Fox News showed pictures that appeared to be classic
disc shapes moving over a city area.  Iran is developing nuclear
weapons and UFO's almost always take an interest in these
developments.  Many UFO's beaming out green, red, blue and
purple rays were seen over the northern cities of Tabriz and
Ardebil and in the Caspian Sea. Newspapers and agencies reported
people rushing out into the streets in eight towns on Tuesday
night to watch a bright extraterrestrial light dipping in and
out of the clouds. Astronomers explained that the public was
just seeing the planet Venus, whose is very bright in the
western sky.


South Africa =96 Flying Triangle

CITRUSDAL =96 Two witnesses were walking home, the grandmother
pointed to the sky, and said she saw a flying triangle that
moved very slowly on April 12, 2004, at 9:30 PM, about 170 km
from Cape Town. At each of the three points of the triangle
there was a yellow light and in the middle of the craft was a
blue and red light that went on and off and circled each other.
My grandmother and I stood there for about 4 minutes watching
the craft, and then I went home. I told my father about it and
he went outside with me about 6 minutes after my grandmother and
I first spotted it, but we could only make out a faint light. My
grandmother had seen a similar craft several nights ago.  Thanks
to: Brian Vike, Director: http://www.hbccufo.com


Afghanistan - Dot-Sized UFO

KABUL -- On April 15, 2004, at 1:00 AM, the witness woke up to
go to the toilet, and saw a bright dot-sized silver-colored
flash in the sky moving very fast from about east to south. It
did not produce any other lights that could be seen. At first,
the witness thought it was a comet, but after a bit I found out
that it wasn't one. The UFO was bright, fast and about the size
of a star and it not put a trail behind it.


New Zealand =96 Stick like Object

AUCKLAND =96 The witness saw a white stick with wing like
projections about one foot long flying at high speed on April
17, 2004, at 1 PM. It moved like a dart with four sets of wings.
The witness took a video of a white stick like object moving
very fast in a straight line with consistent speed.


DONATE TO KEEP THESE FILES COMING

Dear Readers - Filer=92s Files has been brought to you free on a
weekly basis for seven years.  As of January 2004, requesting a
donation of $24 per year to enable me to continue with Filer=92s
Files.  These files cannot exist without your help.  Donations
can be sent to:  https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for
majorstar.nul

You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master Charge.
You can also mail your check to

George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055.


Many Thanks for your donations

New Mars CD showing dozens of images at much higher quality than
available on Internet for $25. Just contact us at the above
address.


WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE!

Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real
estate agent to help your buy or sell a home.  To get a free
copy of this report e-mail me at : Majorstar.nul


FREE RELOCATION SERVICE FOR OUR READERS

If your thinking of moving or buying or selling a home anywhere
in the United States.  Let my wife and I help you.  Many of the
largest companies use our service.  Just contact us at:
Majorstrar.nul


MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL.  A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year.  To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/.   To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul  "The MUFON
Journal is now accepting qualified advertising, please call 1
(303) 932-7709 for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved.  Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web
Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and
list the date of issue.  These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint.  Send your letters to
Majorstar.nul  Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name.  Please state if you wish
to keep your name or e-mail confidential.  CAUTION, MOST OF
THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.


Regards,

George A. Filer   www.GeorgeFiler.com/







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

                          Secrecy News -- 05/05/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 12:51:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:16:00 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/05/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 42
May 5, 2004


**      TORTURE REPORT MAY HAVE BROKEN CLASSIFICATION RULES
**      ABU GHRAIB AND THE FAILURE OF STRATEGIC INFLUENCE
**      CONGRESS PERFORMED CLASSIFICATION POLICY REVIEW (OR NOT)


TORTURE REPORT MAY HAVE BROKEN CLASSIFICATION RULES

By classifying an explosive report on the torture of Iraqi
prisoners as "Secret," the Pentagon may have violated official
secrecy policies, which prohibit the use of classification to
conceal illegal activities.

The report, authored by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, found that
"between October and December 2003, at the Abu Ghraib
Confinement Facility, numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant,
and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees."

"The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness
statements and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic
evidence," Gen. Taguba wrote.

These specific observations, and the report as a whole, were
classified "Secret / No Foreign Dissemination."

Why the secrecy?

"There's clearly nothing in there that's inherently secret, such
as intelligence sources and methods or troop movements," an
astute reporter noted at a Pentagon press briefing on May 4.
"Was this kept secret because it would be embarrassing to the
world, particularly the Arab world?"

"I do not know specifically why it was labeled Secret," replied
Gen. Peter Pace.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said he did not know why it
was classified, either. "You'd have to ask the classifier," he
said.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/05/dod050404.html

But the classification may have been more than simply
unnecessary. It might have been a violation of official policy,
which forbids the use of secrecy to cover up crimes:

"In no case shall information be classified in order to ...
conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error
[or to] prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or
agency...," according to Section 1.7 of Executive Order 12958,
as amended by President Bush (EO 13292):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html#1_7

In a lawyerly reading, the Pentagon might respond that the
document was not specifically classified "in order" to conceal
violations of law, even though that was the direct consequence,
but for some other purpose.

The fact remains that classification served to conceal illegal
activity for months, if not longer.

Furthermore, there is no effective mechanism to enforce even the
executive branch's own standards and policies on classification.
Rather, the Abu Ghraib torture scandal came to light through an
unauthorized disclosure of classified information, for which one
must be sadly grateful.

The report on torture at Abu Ghraib prison is apparently still
classified. But it is now widely available on the internet,
including here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2004/800-mp-bde.htm


ABU GHRAIB AND THE FAILURE OF STRATEGIC INFLUENCE

Disclosure of the torture of Iraqi prisoners by American
soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq has dealt a profound blow
to U.S. government efforts to communicate a positive,
constructive message to the Islamic world.

The excellence of current communications technologies was
supposed to give the U.S. an advantage in exercising influence
abroad.

Instead, all of the latest technologies of global communication
have been harnessed to transmit images of U.S. torture and
sexual humiliation to every corner of the globe. Probably never
before has such documentation of human rights abuses been
disseminated so widely and so quickly.

That wasn't part of the plan.

The development of "information operations" as a tool of
American foreign policy was discussed and critiqued in two
research reports written last year by U.S. Army officers.

"No wizardry in communications can make bad policy decisions or
actions palatable [to foreign audiences]. However, having a
competent strategic influence campaign is essential to U.S.
victory in the War on Terrorism," wrote Lt. Col. Susan L. Gough.

Yet "the initial strategic influence efforts of the Bush
Administration ... revealed a typically American myopic
viewpoint: Americans assume that other people think as they do
and want the same things that American do -- that other people
want to be like Americans."

See "The Evolution of Strategic Influence by Lt. Col. Susan L.
Gough, U.S. Army War College, April 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/gough.pdf

In a more upbeat assessment, Col. Brad M. Ward asserted in
another Army War College study that "The Department of Defense
maintains very robust and relatively sophisticated influence
mechanisms to inform and influence foreign audiences at the
operational and tactical levels during peacetime and in war."

See "Strategic Influence Operations -- The Information
Connection," by Col. Brad M. Ward, April 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/ward.pdf

But it is not clear that the Bush Administration has a
compelling message to offer the Arab world.

The new U.S.-funded Arabic satellite TV station, Al Hurra, last
week included in its programming a profile of actress Goldie
Hawn, "which will certainly do little to advance the cause of
democracy in the Arab and Muslim worlds," wrote independent
critic Stephen Schwartz.

See "Mideast Media Mess" by Stephen Schwartz,
TechCentralStation.com, May 3:

http://www.techcentralstation.com/050304B.html


CONGRESS PERFORMED CLASSIFICATION POLICY REVIEW (OR NOT)

Congress has completed the review of classification policy that
was recommended last year by the Congressional Joint Inquiry
into September 11, said Senate Intelligence Committee chairman
Pat Roberts in a speech this week. But he may be mistaken.

The classification system is in need of significant reform, the
Congressional Joint Inquiry indicated in one of its nineteen
recommendations, made public in July 2003.

"Congress should ... review the statutes, policies and
procedures that govern the national security classification of
intelligence information and its protection from unauthorized
disclosure. Among other matters, Congress should consider the
degree to which excessive classification has been used in the
past and the extent to which the emerging threat environment has
greatly increased the need for real-time sharing of sensitive
information," according to Recommendation Number 15.

That has now been accomplished, said Sen. Roberts in a May 3
speech at Kansas State University.

"Congress has implemented four [of the 19] changes: a national
watch-list center, a terrorist information fusion center,
oversight of the Patriot Act, and a review of classification
policy."

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/roberts050304.html

This is "good news," he said.

But it's not good news, because intelligence classification
policy is unchanged. CIA classification practices are as
arbitrary and poorly justified as ever. The Congressional
review of classification, if it occurred, has left the world as
it was.

However, it may not have occurred.

"I am not aware of any classification policy review having been
done," said Bill Duhnke, the staff director of the Senate
Intelligence Committee.

"I think the Chairman must have misspoken," he told Secrecy
News.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

             Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 10:48:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:21:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Warren


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:08:11 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:14:26 -0400
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>Source: SpaceDaily.Com

>>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html

>>TERRADAILY
>>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>>05-04-04

>>by Ben Bova
>>for Astrobiolgy Magazine
>>Moffett Field (SPX)

><snip>

>Good Day Fellow Listers,

>Here's my response to Dr. Bova's excerpt that appeared in
>Astrobiology Magazine

See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m04-009.shtml

His reply with my follow-up:

FW: Dear Dr. Bova, Thank you for your expeditious response.

BB: Dear Frank Warren: All the "evidence" you cite is
circumstantial or hearsay.

FW: Since you didn't mention "UFOs," I'll assume you mean only
my response  to your statement that there is "no supportive
evidence" in your belief of intelligent life in the universe.

First, none of my examples for "supportive evidence" is
"hearsay," what astronomers have discovered has been well
documented, and "mathematics is a science"; there is substantial
documentation about life in a "lightless" environment in the
depths of the ocean, and deep underground in solid rock; please
correct me if I'm wrong, although the debate continues, the
consortium "is not against" ALH 84001 having fossilized microbic
Martian bacteria in it.

I will concede "circumstantial evidence," but that is evidence
none the less, and my statement was, "there is in fact exactly
that, 'supportive evidence' of the existence of life elsewhere
in the universe." (E.g., although, most extrasolar-planets
"cannot be seen" the "evidence" that they exist is in the
"wobble" of the accompanying star).

BB: Although astronomers have found the chemical elements for
life and even some regions that may be habitable by terrestrial
standards, no one has yet found a microbe beyond Earth (except
for terrestrial contaminants), let alone the faintest evidence
for intelligent life.

FW: As I said in my initial response to your excerpt, "If one
accepts how science dictates how complex life evolved on this
planet, then there is "ample" supportive evidence of the same
from planets in our own "Milky Way," not to mention the vastness
of the universe."

To reiterate, if one accepts the principles of science, and
agrees with the concepts of said science in how "complex life"
evolved to this stage, on this planet, then there is a liberal
amount of "supportive evidence" to suggest the same on other
planets in the universe!

BB: I really think you should read FAINT ECHOES, DISTANT STARS
before arguing these points.

FW: Agreed, I think a signed copy is in order!

BB: I'm an optimist; I believe life will be found and perhaps
even intelligent life, eventually. I've written fiction about
these matters. But we need proof, not conjecture.

FW: The points I offered are "based on scientific fact"
certainly not conjecture! In the end however, it's all
irrelevant, as there is more "proof, evidence, factual data"
that ETI is here now and has been for quite some time; one only
needs to apply the methods you mentioned earlier:

"The essence of science is measurement and proof. Ideas must be
tested before they are accepted as valid. Indeed, this concept
of testability is central to scientific understanding. Every
idea, every measurement, must be tested to see if it holds up
under examination."

Ben Bova


Warmest Regards,

Frank Warren








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

                Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:11:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:22:26 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:37:36 -0400
>Subject: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>Source: SpaceDaily.Com

>>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html

>>TERRADAILY
>>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>>05-04-04

>>by Ben Bova
>>for Astrobiolgy Magazine
>>Moffett Field (SPX)

>Typical Bovean Bloviation.

>Ironically, one of the best early multiple witness sightings
>(Rogue River, May 24, 1949; case 10 of Special Report #14)
>involved two witnesses from Moffett Field (Ames Aeronautical
>Laboratory near San Francisco). I suppose this has skipped
>Bova's notice.

Quite true, Bruce, but I suspect it didn't skip his notice (I'd
guess you were being tongue-in-cheek.) but was ceremonially
flushed down his pelican toilet.  :)  Or call it WSB (willfully
selective blindness).

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

             Re: Little Men Frogmen & UFO Prehistory - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 20:43:36 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:35:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Little Men Frogmen & UFO Prehistory - Dickenson


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:04:47 -0700
>Subject: Little Men Frogmen & UFO Prehistory

>Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:21:25 -0700
>From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
>To: forteana.nul
>SubJ: FWD [forteana] Little Men, Frogmen, and UFO Prehistory

Thanks to Terry W Colvin for introducing T. Peter's research to
the List. Some members already know that "Perceptions" has long
argued against differentiation of "unknown phenomena" by
labeling.

You know the sort of thing - "That wasn't a UFO, it was a ghost
/poltergeist etc." - which completely fails to address problem
of the phenomenon, merely shifts it into another (more easily
ridiculed) category. But _all_ these categories are simply those
not yet investigated by mainstream science (often because they
produce embarrassing evidence).

Hopefully to further progress -

>Subject:[forteana] re: Little Men, Frogmen, and UFO Prehistory
>Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:51:52 +0100
>From: Ray Dickenson <ray.nul>

>STEPHEN JONES wrote:
>>"sightings are in Fairies: Real Encounters with Little People by
>>Janet Bord... its a favourite of mine as she only used 20th
>>century sightings." -Steve

>Read Stephen Jones' glowing review about 6 am today, re-checked
>lots of others' opinions and, 'cos it seems to be the first
>`phenomenological' ... work, have just recommended it
>on http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/xb.html#rek

If any List member is in contact with Janet &/or Colin Bord,
please let Janet Bord know changes can easily be made here. Or
go "mail perceptions editor" in Google.

["Perc" is not-for-profit]

Thanks, in advance

Ray D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

                 Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 19:36:54 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:40:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Balaskas


Hello again everyone!

I finally got a chance to see the video clip of this UFO on Jeff
Rense's rense.com web site (for some reason I still cannot visit
Brian Vike's ubccufo.com web site). I am now convinced this image
is that of a star!

The moving image in the video clip is setting at an angle of 42
degrees (remember, this is an inverted image according to the
witness). If this image was a stationary celestial object such
as a star that was setting at a point due west, it would be
setting at an angle of 44 (90 - 46) degrees with respect to the
horizon if the witness did see and recorded it from Portland,
Oregon. This 44 degree value is nearly identical to what I
measured and what would be expected assuming the telescope
tripod base and the mounted camera were both level and parallel
to the horizon. No mystery here.

Although the image in the video clip has many bright colourful
lobes and seems to be rapidly tumbling, this is unlikely since
the central point is always dark. Since the witness used a
Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope to observe this UFO which all have
a secondary mirror on the corrector plate at the front of the
telescope, the dark spot is simply this mirror obstructing some
of the light of an out-of-focus star entering the telescope! The
reason the out-of-focus star does not appear in the shape of a
perfect donut is because of the star's very low elevation in the
sky where the refractive effects of the atmosphere are much more
pronounced.

One thing I want to make clear is that because we can come up
with reasonable and probable prosaic explanations for nearly all
the UFO reports that Brian has collected (even if quite a few of
them do not even involve UFOs!), it should in no way be
concluded that the UFO mystery has been solved and merits no
further serious investigation.

Thanks again to Brian for his tireless efforts in collecting and
sharing the many UFO reports he gets with everyone!

Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

                   Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:11:10 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 10:38:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Olmos


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 19:36:54 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Balaskas


>I finally got a chance to see the video clip of this UFO on Jeff
>Rense's rense.com web site (for some reason I still cannot visit
>Brian Vike's ubccufo.com web site). I am now convinced this image
>is that of a star!

<snip>

Thanks to Nick for devoting his time to clarify UFO events.

The problem is that dissemination of information (most on pseudo
UFOs) is larger than research, as a consequence the
observational scrap is augmenting, the time of analysts diverted
and many valid cases cannot be suitably studied by lack of
resources.

I believe that any case compiler has a responsability here.

How to handle this is to be debated. Perhaps the minimum
requirement the compiler owes to the UFO research community is
to present events with a minimum strangeness. Because it is
amazing how almost 60 years after the public awareness of the
UFO phenomenon we still are taking stars, balloons, birds or
lens flares as UFOs, and many workhours are spent (spoiled) in
explaining away these cases because they were released in web
sites.


V-J







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

                  Valley Man Claims He Caught UFO On Tape!

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 07:29:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 10:45:47 -0400
Subject: Valley Man Claims He Caught UFO On Tape!


Source: KGBT TV 4 - Harlingen Texas

http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=1844655&nav=0w0vMt4G

05-05-04

Valley Man Claims He Caught UFO On Tape!

 - A Mission man claims he may have captured the
images of a UFO on his VHS camcorder, early Monday morning.

The man, who doesn't want his identity revealed, says he was
awakened by his dogs around midnight.

When he went to see what they were barking at, he says he
literally couldn't believe his eyes. Bright lights, unlike any
he'd ever seen before, danced around in the sky at a distance.

While he doesn't want to speculate, some of his friends who
viewed the tape, believe he may have been in the company of
space aliens.

"Well, to me it's very out of this world," says Jose Nieto, a
friend of the Mission resident.

Laughing, he adds, "I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see
E.T. here in the Valley after seeing this!"

Nieto says he and his buddy joke about it now but are still
wondering if anyone else in the Mission area saw the
unidentified flying objects.

Showing Action 4 News the amateur footage, he says as many as 15
lights could be seen but the one he focused his lens on appeared
to be changing shapes.

"Actually you see something spinning. I mean it looks like a
mushroom, Pac Man and different colors. It's just pretty
amazing, you know, pretty colorful."

Nieto says he's see no stranger to the extra-terrestrial. He
claims he's seen UFO's before but none quite like this.

"Not as bad as this before. I've seen UFO's in the past but not
as bad as this one. I'm very surprised. And once again it makes
me wonder, 'Are we really alone?'."

Action 4 News did check with Mission Police spokesperson Martin
Garza to see if anyone reported the suspicious sighting; he says
'no'.

But on Monday, there were media reports of a similar sighting in
Mexico.










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

                        Mars And The Teachable Moment

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:55:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:55:11 -0400
Subject: Mars And The Teachable Moment




Source: Space.Com

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_devore_face_040506.html

06-05-04

SETI: Search For Life

Mars And The Teachable Moment

By Edna DeVore
Director of Education and Public Outreach


We're back on Mars with Spirit and Opportunity roving the
surface and engaging the public in the search for evidence of
water. Overhead, orbiters image the surface in exquisite detail.
People worldwide are attentive to Mars - it can even be easily
seen in the evening sky with the naked eye. All of this makes
Mars the logical focus for teaching science as a part of current
events, and for dealing with pseudoscientific claims about Mars.

It's a good time for critical thinking in classrooms. With the
observations being made from Mars orbiters, students and
teachers can critically consider the "face on Mars". In a
reprise of an earlier column, I offered my thoughts on this
"face". Today, as NASA considers Mars as the past and future
home for life, the critical consideration of the "face"
continues to be relevant.

In late March of 2002, the SETI Institute education team was at
the National Science Teachers Association meeting in San Diego,
CA along with about 14,000 other science teachers. It's a good
thing that these NSTA meetings coincide with spring break, or no
science would be taught in US schools during that week every
spring. I had a long conversation with a high school science
teacher about teaching science in a world where his students are
continually exposed to pseudo-science or even phony science - the
stuff they learn from watching television and reading the
tabloids. What do they believe is real? The face on Mars, alien
autopsies, Area 51 in the Nevada desert as an alien storage
area, the "non-landings" on the Moon, UFO's, alien kidnappings -
these are all the grist of great story telling and speculation
in the media. It is easy for uncritical kids (and adults) to
"believe" the "evidence" of alien beings and encounters when it
is all carefully gift-wrapped by the creative television
producers who crank out dramatic programs depicting these events
with well-trained actors and elaborate sets. Of course, these
are the same folks who bring us fantastic science fiction films
which we ALL know are entertainment, not science education - or
at least I function under that illusion.

The pseudo-science accounts are carefully filmed and
professionally narrated for television as "documentaries" about
mysteries, or unexplained events. All aim to convince the public
that aliens have been here or nearby on the Moon or Mars, and
that all of the "evidence" is being covered up by a grand
conspiracy of seriously un-fun people in the government,
universities, and research organizations. Folks like me.
Denying, providing alternative explanations, or criticizing the
"evidence" simply proves there is a cover-up.

About 50% of the American public believes that UFO's are real,
and what they mean by "real" is that UFO's are piloted by aliens
from some distant world, not Earthlings from the local Air Force
Base or actors in Hollywood costumes. Think about that, and then
consider teaching space science and astronomy in this social
context.

Take the face on Mars. The first photograph of this bumpy mesa
was snapped by the Viking Orbiter, and released by NASA to the
public on July 31, 1976.

[Picture:Cydonia area]

What did NASA say about the photograph?


"Caption of JPL Viking Press Release P-17384
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Viking New Center Viking 1-61
Pasadena, CAP-17384 (35A72)
July 31, 1976

This picture is one of many taken in the northern latitudes of
Mars by the Viking 1 Orbiter in search of a landing site for
Viking 2.

The picture shows eroded mesa-like landforms. The huge rock
formation in the center, which resembles a human head, is formed
by shadows giving the illusion of eyes, nose and mouth. The
feature is 1.5 kilometers one mile across, with the sun angle at
approximately 20 degrees. The speckled appearance of the image
is due to bit errors, emphasized by enlargement of the photo.
The picture was taken on July 25 from a range of 1873 kilometers
(1162) miles). Viking 2 will arrive in Mars orbit next Saturday
(August 7) with a landing scheduled for early September."


It is an intriguing image, and certainly does look like a face.
In fact, since then, this "face" on Mars has inspired a whole
library of books and groups of true believers that now find
"evidence" of a "Pyramid" and an "Inca City" as well - all, of
course, photographed by Viking but covered up by NASA officials.
Note that all of the publications help to put bread on the table
and pay the rent for the creative folks churning out books,
articles, and tabloid stories about "the face."

Now, image being a science teacher with a classroom full of 15-
year old students who believe the television accounts of the
face on Mars, cities on the Moon, alien autopsies, etc. etc.,
and you are teaching your unit on space and astronomy. A careful
excursion through the characteristics of the planets and their
moons interests your students - the red spot on Jupiter would
hold at least 3 Earths, a cool factoid - but it doesn't grab
them. The face on Mars does. And this was what I discussed with
the science teacher at NSTA.

The face on Mars is a teachable moment. Turn your students into
scientists. Present the evidence for the students to consider.
There is the Viking photograph, taken in 1976 and the Mars
Global Surveyor (MGS) photographs taken about 25 years later.
Ask the students what they see in the 1976 photograph - like
everyone else, they will see a face. I see a face in that
photograph too. Humans interact with the natural world by
organizing perception into recognizable form. Who has not
watched clouds on a summer day, and "seen" horses, dragons,
beautiful men/women, ships, and such? In the early part of the
century, astronomer, Lowell, was convinced he saw canals on Mars
through his telescope in Arizona. Subsequently, other observers
and photography of Mars proved that his mind was "connecting"
broken features into lines, the canals, but that it was all in
his mind not on Mars. We humans are pattern seekers, and seeing
familiar forms in strange places helps us to organize our
perceptions of the natural world. There was a rock formation
near my childhood home in the Sierra Nevada mountains that
looked like a bear, but I never assumed that it was carved by
some unknown being to make me ponder bears or believe in unknown
beings. I understood that it was jagged granite, and the fact
that it looked like a bear was a coincidence. I also had to
stand in the right place to see the bear; otherwise, it just
looked like a mountain peak. Like the bear, to see the face on
Mars, you have to "stand" in the right place, and at the right
time of day.

Move forward a couple of decades. We've returned to Mars. We
have new, higher resolution photographs of the same mesa taken
by MGS and posted to the web by Malin Space Science Systems, the
designers and builders of the camera onboard MGS. These are
detailed, new views, including views from different places at
different times of the day. The raw data from MGS is image
processed to bring out the details on the mesa, and a clear
explanation for how scientists accomplish this work helps
students to understand that there is not cover up. It's more
like an uncovering to reduce raw data to images. There are
movies that allow you to fly around the "face" and check out the
terrain for yourself. Send your students there for the evidence.
What does the mesa look like see more clearly, more closely?

You decide:

[Picture: C.U. Mars 'Face']

The shadows cast by the low Sun angle in 1976 created a lovely
illusion - a giant face-like mesa on Mars. The new images, taken
by MGS reveal the "face" as a rocky mesa, one of many in the
Cydonia region of Mars. It looks a lot like mesas in the western
region of the United States. In fact, it looks a lot like other
mesas in that same region on Mars - similar in size, dimension,
and height. It's an ordinary feature on Mars, not a gargantuan
piece of artwork left to make us ponder whether alien artists
who sculpted on a grand scale had visited Mars. But, don't ask
students to "believe" in science, provide the evidence, and
allow them to critically consider what we now know about the
"face" on Mars. Give them the same opportunity granted the space
scientists who took the images with Viking and with MGS.

Finally, ask yourself and your students how much money people
made and continue to make from selling pseudoscientific accounts
and films to the gullible public. That discussion might reveal
why the "face on Mars" is so persistent.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 6

                      Article - UFOs And The Paranormal

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 07:33:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 12:02:34 -0400
Subject: Article - UFOs And The Paranormal



Source: Profindpages.com

http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/06/MN092.htm

UFO's and the Paranormal

A special series of reports on UFO and Paranormal activity

____________________________________

This article is to introduce you to our special reporter Jorge
Villasana, who will be providing special reports from the San
Juan Bautista region, which is right on the San Andreas Fault .
Click Here to view his first report.

The report concerns a UFO sighting on the Panoche Road to
Hollister, where Jorge was driving with his family.

In the next few days we shall be providing stories on Ghosts and
many other subjects, so be sure to look out for those.

Have you seen a UFO, Ghost or something you could not explain?
Send us an email with your story and share your experience with
our visitors.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                'The Other Folk': John A. Keel Jacques Vallee

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 22:22:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 07:58:14 -0400
Subject: 'The Other Folk': John A. Keel Jacques Vallee


FWD [forteana] The "Other Folk": John A. Keel, Jacques Vallee,
fairies," "aliens," and anomalous humanoids

Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 10:22:15 -0700
From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
  To: forteana.nul,
Subj:FWD [forteana] The "Other Folk": John A. Keel, Jacques
Vallee, fairies," "aliens," and anomalous humanoids


Dear friends, Forteans, and Listmates,

I recently came across again a copy of the original article that
first got me thinking about the "Other Folk" or "Parallel Race"
theme about 30 or so years ago: John A. Keel's article on "The
Sinister Men in Black" in the April 1968 FATE, which I first
read in the Spring of 1968 at the University of Virginia in
Charlottesville. A few years ago, on one of my vacation trips to
Virginia, I ran across and bought a copy of that April 1968 FATE
in a used bookstore in Norfolk or Charlottesville, and I
recently ran across it again in my room.  I'm including a copy
of a couple of relevant paragraphs from Keel's article at the
end of this letter.

In "The Sinister Men in Black," Keel noted that both the "Men in
Black" harrassing UFO witnesses and the pilots of the UFO's
themselves are usually described as dark-skinned humans with
Oriental features (obviously, Keel had never heard of the
"Grays" in 1968!). This, he felt, was an excellent reason to
reconsider and reject the popular extraterrestrial theory of
UFO's Instead, Keel suggested, UFO's are built and launched on
Earth, "made of earthly materials and piloted by humanoid types
not too dissimilar from ourselves" (John A. Keel, "The Sinister
Men in Black," FATE, April 1968, p. 37). The UFO'nauts and Men
in Black, Keel thought, might be "a subversive group who, like
the Gypsies, are able to live among us unnoticed and isolated
from our general society" (John A. Keel, "The Sinister Men in
Black," pp. 37-38). However, in his popular 1970 books, 'Strange
Creatures From Time and Space' and 'UFO's: Operation Trojan
Horse," Keel theorized instead that the UFO's, their pilots, and
many other assorted creatures and monsters (like "Bigfoot" and
the West Virginia "Mothman") might be "ultraterrestrials,"
demonic trickster-like entities from another dimension with a
malicious, perverse sense of humor who enjoy confusing,
terrifying, "spooking," and misleading us.

Around this same time, likewise, the French-American computer
scientist and UFO'logist Jacques Vallee was also developing a
theory that the UFO's may in fact come from an unsuspected part
of our own local natural environment. Like Keel, Vallee felt
that the massive number of historical pre-1947 and pre-20th-
century UFO and "alien" sightings, going back thousands of
years, indicated that the UFO's have always been a natural part
of our environment. In his 1969 book Passport to Magonia: From
Folklore to Flying Saucers (Chicago: Henry Regnery Co., 1969),
Vallee emphasized a close similarity and unbroken continuity
between modern UFO alien reports and traditional folklore about
human encounters with fairies, dwarfs, trolls, gnomes, and
"Little People." He stressed that throughout history, in all
cultures and all parts of the world, there is a consistent folk
tradition about visitations from Heaven, Hell, Fairyland,
Elfland, or "Magonia" (to use one mediaeval European name that
struck Vallee's fancy). Folklore and "flying saucers," Vallee
argued, are not in fact so different.

Humanity, Vallee argued in 'Passport to Magonia', has had a
continual history of visitations and "close encounters," from
prehistoric times to the present. Essentially the self-same
identical phenomenon, he claimed, has been interpreted in terms
of "visitors from outer space" in our own scientific,
technological culture, and in terms of interactions with gods,
demons, fairies, elves, or gnomes by pre-scientific cultures,
without either the "extraterrestrial" theory nor the "gods,
demons, and fairies" explanation necessarily being the correct
one. UFO's, for Vallee, were just one more of the guises a
chameleon-like Protean invisible order assumed to shape and
order human consciousness. He called it "Magonia" after a
mediaeval French peasant belief in a region "from whence came
ships in the clouds," as an A.D. 840 MS by Archbishop Agobard of
Lyons put it. Vallee surveyed religious traditions, folk
beliefs, occult texts, 19th century newspapers, Virgin Mary
apparitions, fairy-lore, "Elementals," and the anomalous
airships of 1896-1897 as evidence for pre-UFO manifestations of
Magonia.  It was difficult. Vallee felt, to find a culture on
Earth that did not have a tradition of "little people" who fly
through the air and abduct humans. Throughout prehistory and
history, he believed, contact had occurred between human beings
and another consciousness, variously described as demonic,
angelic, or alien. These "little people" went under a variety of
names, like the Scandinavian "trolls," the Irish "leprechauns,"
the French "fees" or fairies, and the "ikals" of Mexico.

In his numerous later books on the UFO phenomenon, Vallee never
abandoned his 'Passport to Magonia' stress on the similarity and
continuity between traditional fairy and modern UFO lore.
However he also introduced a new concept, that of the UFO's,
"close encounters," and "abductions" being products or
manifestations of a "control system" of unknown origin using
weird phenomena to help raise and educate Humanity's collective
metaphysical, cosmological, and spiritual consciousness. Loren
Coleman and Jerome Clark explored ideas very similar to Vallee's
in 1975. In 'The Unidentified' (Jerome Clark & Loren Coleman,
'The Unidentified: Notes Toward Solving the UFO Mystery', Warner
Books, 1975), they likewise stressed the close similarity and
seeming unbroken continuity of modern UFO encounters and "alien
abductions" with older stories of fairies, religious visions,
and alleged 19th century builders of mysterious aircraft. John
A. Keel, too, in some  of his 1970's books like 'Our Haunted
Planet' and 'The Eighth Tower', played around with ideas
reminiscent of Vallee's "Control System."

Reading Keel, Vallee, and Clark & Coleman in the late 1960's and
the 1970's, I got intrigued with what I call the archetype or
myth of the "Other Folk" or "Parallel Species." I did not
exactly become a believer in fairies, gnomes, mermaids, and
"Little People," but I gathered that most known human cultures
have believed in the existence of such beings, and felt that
there are indeed certain similarities, analogies, or parallels
between such folkloric beings and the alleged aliens of modern
UFO lore. Most known human societies, it seemed to me, have
believed that we share our planetary environment with one or
more races of mysterious mythical humanoids, flesh-and-blood
creatures of almost but not quite human form endowed with
various magical or supernatural powers. These mythical humanoids
have been pictured as forming an intermediate order or category
of beings, intermediate or transitional between ordinary
Humanity on the one hand, and the purely spiritual and
immaterial orders of gods, angels, demons, and ghosts on the
other. They are not quite human beings, but they are also not
quite gods, angels, demons, ghosts, or spirits, either. They
include all the various and sundry fairies, elves, gnomes,
trolls, kobolds, nixies, pixies, leprechauns, dwarves, giants,
fauns, satyrs, centaurs, dryads, naiads, mermaids, mermen,
sylphides, lamias, ikals, werewolves, vampires, incubi, and
succubi of folklore and mythology.

I kept thinking that while on the one hand traditional
folklorists, ethnographers, and ethnologists certainly "knew all
about" fairies, gnomes, trolls, dryads, mermaids, werewolves,
and vampires, they also didn't seem to quite fully realize the
significance or meaning of these traditional beliefs, either.
They didn't realize that "tribal," "folk," "primitive," and
"peasant" cultures almost unanimously held and asserted a belief
in an "intermediate order" of beings who were not quite human
beings but also not quite gods, angels, ghosts, or spirits
either. "Primitive" and "folk" cultures, in other words,
believed that 'Homo sapiens' shares its biosphere with one or
several mysterious, elusive, secretive species of physical,
"flesh-and-blood" but "magical" and "eldritch" humanoids! Was
this a distorted folk-memory of ancient contacts and conflicts
with 'Homo erectus' and Neandertals, I kept wondering? Or did it
signify occasional encounters and run-ins with 'another' species
of 'Homo' who had evolved alongside ourselves (in Asia or Europe
while 'Homo sapiens' evolved in Africa? What were some OTHER
tribes of 'Homo erectus' doing in say Germany, Iran, or India
100,000 years ago while OUR great-great-great-great-great-
grandpas and -grandmas were becoming 'Homo sapiens' in Olduvai
Gorge, eh???), developed certain "psi" powers and perhaps also a
"saucer" technology, but usually managed to keep its existence
pretty much a total complete secret (most of the time) from us?

Did the "other" 'Homo' species, I sometimes wondered, manifest
itself to us down through the millennia first as "fairies" and
"gnomes," and later as UFO aliens? Or was it just a collective
myth, dream, fantasy, or archetype in Humankind's Jungian
"Collective Unconscious," possessing not even a teensiest
smidgen of actual zoological reality in terms of a flesh-and-
blood protein-based "other" 'Homo' species, but nevertheless
"materialized" from time to time as "tulpas," "thought-forms,"
or "telesmic images"? Still, if the whole thing was indeed a bit
more "zoologically real" than "tulpas," "thought-forms," and
"telesmic images," did this mean that 'Homo sapiens' shared
Planet Earth's biosphere with "mystery hominids" in 'TWO'
evolutionary directions - with "lower," "inferior," "backward,"
"primitive, ""apish" Yeti, Bigfoot, 'Erectus', and Neanderthal
cousins, but 'ALSO AS WELL' with 'Homo superior' or 'Homo alter'
in the person of fairies, sylphs, elves, and - who knows - Men
in Black and UFO'nauts?? Had Olaf Stapledon's "Odd John" and
A.E. VanVogt's "Slans" (two classic science-fictional depictions
of mutant supermen appearing among us) already been living
amongst us invisibly on Planet Earth for millennia without our
ever being the wiser? Was the persistent world-wide human belief
in fairies, "Little People," and nowadays also UFO aliens a
reflection of occasional actual contacts, encounters, brushes,
and run-ins with 'Homo superior' or 'Homo alter' whose "cover"
sometimes broke down?

The whole thing, I also noticed, showed no real signs of going
away in our own supposedly more "rational," "enlightened,"
"scientific" era. If French, English, Irish, or German farmers
showed less interest than their great-grandparents in the
fairies, trolls, leprechauns, kobolds, nixies, and pixies of
traditional Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, and Germanic peasant folklore,
their space-age city-slicker cousins were every bit as ready and
willing to believe in abductions by little gray UFO aliens with
huge slanted wrap-around eyes. Literature and pop culture, too,
were tirelessly enthusiastic in endlessly recycling traditional
vampire and werewolf lore, as in 'Dracula', werewolf movies, the
novels of Anne Rice, and Stephen King's 'Salem's Lot'. J.J.R.
Tolkien gave traditional European fairy, elf, and gnome role a
new lease and fresh twist with his Hobbits, Elves, and Orcs.
Whitley Strieber, who eventually "came out of the closet" as a
recipient of "Visitor" encounters in 'Communion' and its
sequels, first won pop-culture literary success with a series of
well-written, popular  horror novels exploiting the "Other Folk"
or "Parallel Species" theme: 'The Wolfen' with its intelligent
wolves as the reality behind werewolf legends; 'The Thirst'
portraying vampires as an outwardly human-like parallel species
parasitically drinking our blood who had evolved symbiotically
with 'Homo sapiens'; 'The Night Church' with its centuries-old
conspiracy of ruthless amoral mad scientists breeding a "Master
Race" of enormously strong Bigfoot-like race of amoral
Nietzschean supermen through generations of selective breeding
ad genetic engineering.

Science-fiction writer Philip Jos=E9 Farmer gave the "Other Folk"
an imaginative extraterrestrial twist in his 1961 novel 'The
Lovers', set in the 31st century A.D. on an Earth-like planet 30
or 40 light-years from Earth explored by Earthmen studying its
man-sized insect-like intelligent natives, its relics of an
extinct ancient humanoid race, and its remnants of a "Lost
Colony" of earlier Earth settlers. Farmer's protagonist,
anthropologist Hal Yarrow, is sent to "Ozagen" by 31st century
Earth's totalitarian, imperialistic, religiously fanatical
"Sturch" (State-Church) to anthropologically study the man-sized
intelligent insect-like "Wogglebugs" before the Sturch
exterminates them to make room for human colonists. Ozagen also
has ruined cities built by a native humanoid race who became
extinct millennia before the coming of the first Earth
explorers, and traces of a lost Earth colony founded a few
centuries earlier by a small group of settlers from Earth.
Throughout his sojourn on Ozagen, Hal Yarrow finds his loyalty
to the Sturch and its ideology steadily eroding. He meets and
falls in love with a beautiful, alluring, enchanting female
creature who claims to be  the last lone human survivor of the
lost Earth colony. He gradually learns, however, that she is in
reality a 'lalitha', one of the few last surviving members of an
originally insect-like Ozagenian intelligent symbiotic species.
The 'lalitha' were sexual parasites who adapted themselves to
the outward physical appearance of whatever species they
symbiotized with. They used to live among both the "Wogglebugs"
and the extinct Ozagenian humanoids, as well as members of the
lost Earth colony.  They needed to be impregnated by males of
whatever species the themselves all-female 'lalitha' cohabited
with. The 'lalithas'' reproductive organs were connected by
special nerves to their eyes and optic nerves so that their
offspring were genetically re-programmed to outwardly resemble
whatever male the mother looked at while making love!

The 'lalitha' are a tragic species in that their offspring, as
among many Earth insects, grow inside the mother's body and
burst it, killing the mother, before they hatch. Over the
millennia, the 'lalitha' have learned to practice birth control,
and thereby to save their lives, by drinking alcohol before and
after sex to paralyze their special Lamarckian genetic optic
nerves. Hal Yarrow sees his mistress seemingly becoming an
alcoholic. He starts secretly spiking her liquor supply with an
alcohol antidote that he steals from his spaceship's dispensary.
Too late, he discovers that he has killed her by causing a brood
of live 'lalitha' larvae to grow up inside her body. In the
meantime, Yarrow's shipmates, still loyal to the Sturch, react
with shocked, nauseated pious horror when they find out about
his sexual involvement with a 'lalitha'. His ship's Sturch
chaplain  screams at Yarrow for lying not even with the beasts
of the field but 'WITH AN INSECT!!'

Anyway, Philip Jos=E9 Farmer's concept of the 'lalitha' strikes me
as a beautiful example of the myth, image, or archetype of the
"Other Folk" or "Parallel Race," of the "Others" or "Visitors"
who live somewhere near us and furtively interact with us - the
myth or archetype of the gnomes, fairies, elves, "little
people," leprechauns, kobolds, trolls, sylphides, dryads, fauns,
satyrs, mermaids, werewolves, vampires, lamias, incubi, succubi,
etc., perhaps also UFO occupants (as in Whitley Strieber's
'Communion')! Philip Jos=E9 Farmer's name 'lalitha' reminds me of
"Lilith," Adam's first wife before Eve in Jewish tradition, also
of Vladimir Nabokov's nymphet "Lolita," and of a feminized
version of Greek 'lithos', "stone," preceded by the French,
Italian, and Spanish feminine definite article 'la' "the"!
Finally, 'lalitha' also recalls the Sanskrit, P=E2li, and Hindi
'l=E2lita' "beauty, grace, charm"!

Another interesting modern literary adaptation of the "Other
Folk" or "Parallel Race" theme was Peter Straub's 1979 novel
'Ghost Story', the basis also of a 1982 Fred Astaire movie.
Straub's 'Ghost Story' depicts a cross-section of the
inhabitants of the imaginary small upstate New York town of
"Milburn," who gradually become aware that they, their families,
and Milburn are being stalked by a clan of alien, inhuman
"Nightwatchers" or "Shapechangers," demonic tricksters capable
of assuming outward human form who enjoy playing sadistic games
with humans. The "Shapeshifters" or "Nightwatchers" are long-
lived, quasi-immortal creatures whose true or basic form, as
implied in a few passages of the book, is that of a sort of
insect, but who can and do frequently assume various human and
animal disguises. The "Nightwatchers" hate and despise
Humankind, and their main pastime is to drive their chosen human
victims to insanity and suicide by assuming the outward form of
the girl of your dreams or a long-lost parent, brother, sister,
or friend, exploiting their victims' sexuality, compassion, or
loneliness, and then disappearing after playing a few very cruel
twists. They often "pick on" a family, playing with the feelings
of its members for several generations on end, or a whole small
town (like Milburn).

The particular "Shapeshifter" clan that has decided to play its
cruel games with a few Milburnites and their families appears
over and over again, down through the years and in many places
around the world as well as in Milburn itself, in the form of a
beautiful and intriguing but cold, cruel, and heartless woman
with the initials A.M., a handsome but sinister young man named
Greg or Gregory, and Gregory's mentally retarded 10- or 12-year-
old nephew or kid brother with the initials F.B. At the same
time, the "Nightwatchers" simultaneously also torment and
"spook" Milburn by producing animal mutilations and "Bigfoot"
and UFO sightings - basically, playing their sadistic
exploitative emotional games with members of Milburn's educated
upper-middle-class cultural elite, and doing the UFO, Bigfoot,
animal mutilation, and weird footprints in the snow bit with the
local proles and Archie Bunkers. However, on several occasions
the "Nightwatchers" also "spook" their upper-crust victims as
well with blatantly supernatural stuff: like levitating in full
view of a father whose love-struck son their beautiful
"daughter" has just driven to suicide!

Straub's 'Ghost Story', by the way, also features what at first
glance looks like an inbred, dysfunctional, genetically
challenged family of mentally retarded rural ne'er-do-wells of
the Jukes or Kallikak type living in incestuous squalor in a
tar-paper shack in the boondocks of upstate New York. The Bates
of Four Forks, however, turn out to be something far more weird
and sinister.

 Straub's 'Ghost Story' is mainly set in the seemingly quiet,
pleasant, sleepy upstate New York town of "Milburn," and
initially focuses on the "Chowder Society." The "Chowder
Society" is a little club of four elderly, moderately well-to-do
gentlemen from locally prominent and respected Milburn families
who periodically meet in evening dress at each other's houses to
exchange stories of every kind, including ghost stories and tall
tales. 'Ghost Story' begins shortly after a party at which one
of the Chowder Society members, Edward Wanderley, had died - or
was killed. The Chowder Society, who for years had met in
evening dress to tell each other tales of every kind, now find
themselves drawn toward the supernatural, as some sort of solace
for Edward's loss. They begin to tell ghost stories, ghost
stories that do not always stop when the teller has finished
speaking.

 The Chowder Society members next begin having dreams shared
simultaneously by all of them forecasting horrors the four
elderly gentlemen can scarcely bring themselves to discuss. From
farms surrounding Milburn come reports of animal mutilations:
animals assaulted and drained of blood in the fields. As the
cruelly cold winter settles in, freak incidents seem to escalate
in and around Milburn, forming themselves into a sinister scheme
of chaos and terror.

 Edward Wanderley's nephew Don, an aspiring novelist and English
teacher at Berkeley, returns to Milburn from California, with
his own pressing personal reasons for wanting to join the
defence against whoever - or whatever - is perpetrating these
obscene outrages. As he and the reader gradually discover,
Milburn is up against a macabre cast of characters who appear
and tauntingly reappear in different guises throughout 'Ghost
Story' and who have the power to insinuate themselves wilfully
upon the mind.

 Don Wanderley and the Chowder Society discover that over the
years they themselves or people they know have all experienced
encounters with "Nightwatchers" or "Shapechangers" in disguised
human form. The "Nightwatchers" are entities that derive a
sadistic amusement from toying with the feelings of their human
victims and driving those victims to despair, violence, or
suicide. The Chowder Society gentlemen, Don Wandereley, and a
teen-aged Milburn boy, among others, all learn that they, close
friends, or close relatives have at one time or another all met
shape-changing "Nightwatchers" motivated by hatred of Humanity
capable of assuming the form of the perfect girl of one's
dreams, of a dead parent, brother, or friend, or of a lonely,
abused or friendless child yearning to be rescued and
befriended. The long-lived, almost though not quite immortal
Nightwatchers are very patient, if need be quite willing to wait
and try again a half century later if thwarted the first time in
their effort to destroy a victim - or to pursue the intended
original victim's family. They also have a sadistic playfulness,
delighting in tantalizing their victims with elaborate clues and
inside jokes about their true identity. They love to play jokes,
and to slyly flaunt themselves.

  The Nightwatchers sometimes torment, confuse, and madden their
victims by assuming the appearance of a dead brother, parent, or
friend. However, they most frequently take the form of an
alluringly beautiful and seductive but ultimately cold, cruel,
and heartless young woman with the initials A.M. (Alma Mobley,
Amy Monckton, Anna Mostyn, Ann-Veronica Moore, etc.), a
sinister, dissolute, evilly handsome youth named Gregory, and
Gregory's mentally retarded teen-aged younger brother or nephew.
Those three recur continually throughout 'Ghost Story' under
various guises - cropping up in the present and half a century
ago, and in Milburn, in a rural "Tobacco Road" community, in San
Francisco, in New Orleans, and elsewhere. My own two favorite
episodes of 'Ghost Story' are a Chowder Society member's
reminiscences of his youth as an idealistic schoolteacher and
his terrifying run-ins with Fenny, Gregory, and Constance Bates
in a one-room rural schoolhouse and tar-paper "Tobacco Road"
shack in the 1920's, and Don Wanderley's Berkeley/San Francisco
romance with the enchantingly beguiling, too-perfect, ultimately
terrifying "Alma Mobley."

The Bates family at first seem just a pathetically flagrant case
of Jukes- or Kallikak-like rural "white trash" cultural,
intellectual, economic, and genetic deprivation cemented by
abusive homosexual brother-brother incest on top of all their
other problems - but soon turn out to be in fact something far,
far worse and scarier. I got a real kick out of the scene where
the teacher is shown Gregory Bates' GRAVE by the local Lutheran
pastor, who had been exiled by the Lutheran hierarchy to the
boondocks for his obsession with "hermetic matters," as
indicated by his private library with its little collection of
Lully, Fludd, Bruno, and books on witchcraft and Satanism. No
doubt the good Rev. Gruber's library also included the
'Necronomicon' of the mad Arab Abdul Alhazred! The good pastor's
revelations, and the retarded Fenny Bates' voodoo-like voluntary
suicide by heart stoppage, disabuse the young teacher of his
idealistic dreams of rescuing and uplifting the unfortunate,
impoverished Bateses.

  Half a century later, the young novelist, teaching English at
Berkeley, meets in "Alma Mobley" a girl who at first seems too
good to be true - but grows progressively spookier, more
unnerving, and ultimately more terrifying and hateful. She turns
out to have had an affair a year or two earlier with his half-
brother who had then committed suicide, and to be involved with
a cult called the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis) in the hard-cover
version of 'Ghost Story', and the XXX (Xala Xalior Xlati) in the
paperback edition. He discovers her to hang out with a sinister,
disreputable drug dealer named Greg Benton and his mentally
retarded kid brother, supposedly old home-town neighbours of
hers from New Orleans - a pair whose descriptions are almost
identical to those of the rural "Tobacco Roaders" Gregory and
Fenny Bates a half century earlier! After his breakup with Alma
Mobley, Don Wanderley does a bit of detective and library
research work, and discovers that all her autobiographical
references to her own family are fake - but based on the true
family story of a New Orleans artist some 20 or 25 years earlier
whose young son had committed suicide after an ill-starred
romance with a beautiful and enchanting but weird girl named Amy
Monckton who had inveigled him into a bisexual threesome, drug
abuse, and voodoo worship with her handsome but dissolute and
sinister family chauffeur Gregorio!

Regards, T. Peter <tpeterpark.nul> Garden City South, LI,
NY

P.S. - I now also append some relevant paragraphs of the
original April 1968 John A. Keel FATE article on the "Sinister
Men in Black" that first set me to thinking about the "Other
Folk":

John A. Keel, "UFO Report: The Sinister Men in Black," FATE,
Vol. 21, No. 4, April 1968 (pp. 32-39), pp. 37-38:

<<We also should consider the close resemblance of these men
[the MIB or "Men in Black"] to the descriptions given of
UFO'nauts by those who claim to have seen some. Witnesses such
as John Reeves of Brookville, Fla., Woodrow Derenberger of
Mineral Wells, W.Va., and many others who have reported seeing
the pilots of the "flying saucers" have described them as dark-
skinned with Oriental features. In other words, do the people
(?) said to be riding around in UFO's share the physical
characteristics of the men riding around in black Cadillacs?
Perhaps it is time for us to reconsider the popular speculations
about "flying saucers" and reexamine the somewhat baseless
conclusion that they are of extraterrestrial origin. A much
bigger game may be afoot here. Perhaps we have been deliberately
misled into assuming they are not of this planet. There never
has been any evidence, either physical or observational, to
indicate that they came from elsewhere. Actually all of the
available evidence suggests that the objects are made of earthly
materials and piloted by humanoid types not too dissimilar from
ourselves. We may, in fact, be dealing with a subversive group
who, like the Gypsies, are able to live among us unnoticed and
[pp. 37/38] isolated from our general society. The UFO's may be
used only to transfer these unknown people from one surface
point to another. The machines themselves, if they are machines,
could have been manufactured centuries ago and might emanate
from hidden bases located in isolated regions gathered around
this planet. Certainly the massive number of historical
sightings, going back thousands of years, indicates that the
UFO's 'always' have been a natural part of our environment.>>


 -
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright 1992, Frank=
 Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                 Re: Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist

From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 04:35:35 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 08:04:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:25:49 -0700
>Subject: Hard Questions For Forteans As Populist Intellectuals

>Hard Questions For Forteans: Forteans As Populist Intellectuals
>(A Meta-Fortean Probe)

>by T. Peter Park tpeterpark.nul

<snip>

>Do writers on UFO's, Bigfoot, ghosts, "psychical" phenomena,
>Atlantis, planetary catastrophes, and Nostradamus predictions
>compete with "cultural elite" pundits and social critics? Are
>Forteans in a "turf war" with the Lionel Trillings, Irving
>Howes, John Kenneth Galbraiths, Noam Chomskys, Richard Rortys,
>Nathan Glazers, Michael Harringtons, Michel Foucaults, Jacques
>Derridas, William F. Buckleys, Thomas Sowells, Gloria Steinems,
>Hannah Arendts, and Susan Sontags?

<snip>

>St1ill, Forteans--or many Forteans, at any rate - are part of a
>"populist intelligentsia" expressing the interests and
>grievances of people who see their beliefs as ignored by
>"mainstream," "Establishment," or "elite" scientists, scholars,
>media, academicians, and clergy. Besides Forteans, such populist
>intellectuals and their followers include religious
>fundamentalists, commentators like Rush Limbaugh and Matt
>Drudge, "survivalists," conspiracy theorists, gun enthusiasts,
>"Holocaust Revisionists," "militias" like the "Aryan Nation,"
>and anti-government terrorists like "Unabomber" Theodore
>Kaczynski and Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. These groups
>are not identical, and do not agree on everything - but do
>overlap somewhat in membership, interests, and attitudes.
<snip>

Dr. Park, with all due respect, you are comparing apples to
oranges. The people you mention have a completely different
audience. While it is true that Ufologists and Forteans do not
receive the respect or attention from the media that we feel we
deserve, we cannot expect "equal treatment" from the media as
long as most of the "audience" is not interested in our
subjects. Furthermore, we need not feel neglected by comparing
ourselves to those "media elites" that speak on totally
different subjects and have a totally different audience.


Robert Grass









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                      Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 08:15:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 08:15:03 -0400
Subject: Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence




Source: Global Village News and Resources Issue 85

http://www.gvnr.com/85/editorial.htm

05-03-05


Guest Editorial

Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence
by
Monsignor Lac. Corrado Balducci

Over the last 150 years it have appeared sequentially and with
an increasing spreading and frequency rate, two types of
manifestations and phenomena, very different between them, but
both so interesting, controversial and fascinating to divide
public opinion into two different aspects: or everything is
real, or well everything is false. These are spiritualism and
ufology. It shouldn't surprise us this approach, because it's
related only to the reactions and behaviour of the public before
these two phenomena and not to their contents, obviously quite
different between both of them!

Regarding spiritualism, this is a practice for which there are
testimonies across the centuries; in 1847, with the sisters Fox
in Hydesville (New York), it had a special remark and spread
rapidly in several countries. Very soon there was an explanation
for the phenomena connected to such practices, even by the
scientists: the souls of the disincarnated, better said of the
dead people, are the cause of this. This was called the
spiritualist hypothesis, against which theologians soon opposed
to the so called demonic hypothesis.

Only by the end of XIX century there were made the first
attempts to look for a natural explanation, and finally in 1922,
with the thick book of the French scientist Charles Richet,
"Trait=E8 de M=E8tapsychique", it began officially the so called
Metapsychics, nowadays better known as Parapsychology.

When I began with my demonic and metapsychic studies back in
1950, I found myself in a period when, since two decades ago, it
was denied the existence of spiritualist phenomena (and not only
by some scientists, but also by a very wide public opinion),
that represented at that time the most abundant cases of
Metapsychics.

The same is valid since some decades on regarding Ufology.

After this premise, we reach our subject, for which I have two
very brief clarifications to expose.

- The acronym UFO (Unidentified Flying Object), is used here in
a wider sense, or even better, including also the existence of
living beings in other planets.

- The aim of my intervention is to underline that something real
must exist in the phenomena, and how this does not contrast at
all with Christian religion, being considered positive even
among theologians.

Let's divide the speech in three points:

1. Something real must exist.
2. Theological considerations on the habitability of other planets.
3. Some testimonies favourable to it.

I - UFO: Something real must exist.
This is a statement coming out from basic considerations based
upon common sense, human rationalism and upon a normal and
possible course of our lives, considering not only individual
and social aspects, but also religious.

In fact, today there is a great amount (still increasing) of
testimonies regarding the so called flying saucers or spaceships
and the extraterrestrials; and among them there are some coming
from reliable persons, with a culture and initially non
believers. There are already hundreds of thousands of eye
witnesses in the world that state to have seen UFO's at least
once. There are so many, even in a smaller amount, the
testimonies coming from the so called contactees.

If we consider this, it seems impossible to deny at a rational
level that something real does exist! A totally sceptic
behaviour is not justified at all, because a priori seems to be
against to the elemental prudence suggested by the good sense.

It is also real that we could think rationally that so large
average of testimonies could be due to illusions, hallucinations
and to states of intense suggestion. In other cases it could be
also due to particular light effects or well to atmospheric
phenomena, such as clouds that over the mountains may show a
shape similar to the flying saucers; we could use as an example
the so called ball rays or well globular flashes of lighting.

Other times UFO's could be confused with certain types of round-
shaped aeroplanes, that were certainly built in USA since the so
called Cold War (it is also certain that Russia built some
aeroplanes of this type). This promoted in the period after
World War II, the spreading of the idea that flying saucers were
nothing else but new inventions with warring aim, obviously kept
secret.

But these are always inaccurate explanations and considerations
to explain the number of testimonies and the wideness of UFO
phenomenon. The most severe and hard criticism could reduce
largely this number, but never will be able to eliminate all of
them.

We also have to remember that in several countries exist places,
organisations and associations that collect evidences and
testimonies on tape, in order to make them examine and study by
experts and scientists as necessary; after that the whole set is
catalogued in explainable and non explainable phenomena. It is
not any longer a secret the existence of the so called "Area 51"
in the United States, within a zone in the hearth of the Nevada
desert; an enormous land area that has a larger construction
underground than on the surface. In France is famous the SEPRA
association; in Italy there is the CUN, "Centro Ufologico
Nazionale" (National Ufological Centre), already on its 36th.
year of existence, and with Dr. Roberto Pinotti as President
since long ago; also in Italy there is since 4 years until now
the CIFAS ("Council of International Federation of Advanced
Studies") dedicated to study the relationships between man and
extraterrestrial space, which President is still Gen. Salvatore
Marcelletti.

Regarding the existence of something real within UFO phenomenon,
I must add another consideration that was left for last to
better underline its importance. And this is, that a
generalised, systematic and total incredulity finally would
weaken and destroy the value of human testimony, with serious
and unforeseeable consequences, because that is the base of life
not only individual and social, but also religious.

In fact, testimony is a form of communication of our faith in
our partner. This is a widely spread way on daily life (when
listening news, spending, buying, etc.). Let's imagine what
could happen on individual and social life if the value of human
testimony was weaken, with the logical decrease and
disappearance of that faith many times is essential for daily
life!

After this, I have extended such inconveniences to religious
life; in fact, also Christian religion is based upon human
testimony, being the Divine Revelation an historical fact.

In 1937 Jesuit theologian Herbert Thurston wrote on purpose:
"From a logical point of view, christians that accept miracles
and other episodes related on the Gospel... they cannot reject
in an obstinate way the reiterated testimonies of modern and
reliable witnesses, that relate what their eyes have seen... All
our Apologetic system is based upon the belief in the Truth said
in the Gospel" ("Church and Spiritualism"; Milan, 1937;
p.p.179). For that: "systematic demolition and discredit of
human testimonies regarding simple fact data, seem to me
contrary in principle to all belief on the historic seriousness
of Gospel, and indirectly, to every belief on Christian
Revelation" (Op. Cit. p.p. 157).

II. Theological and biblical considerations on the habitability
of other planets.

First of all a clarification: we should exclude that angels use
spaceships, due to the fact that they are merely spiritual
beings, and that they are wherever they want to be, and in the
rare cases when they show themselves, they don't have any
difficulty to assume a visible form. The very same we can say
about dead people. Holy Virgin, in the very few cases when she
could consider to be in contact with human people (very
exceptional episodes and to be confirmed in their authenticity),
continues to choose other very different ways to transmit us her
maternal affection, to manifest us her urgencies, to communicate
us her maternal claims or to give us her sweet reproaches. Even
keeping their angelic nature, we shouldn't think about the
devils at all, because they are connected in their liberty to
God on their extraordinary activity, and in that way they are
disabled to express their terrible and malefic hate regarding
us. Let's remember St. August: "If the devil by his own
initiative could do anything, even a single living being would
not stay on Earth" (ML 37, 1246); let's remember also to St.
Buenaventura: "Is so large the demon's cruelty, that he would
swallow us in every moment, if Divine protection don't guard us"
("Diaeta salutis", tit. 7 c.1, Verona 1748, p. 183).

Therefore, when speaking about extraterrestrials, we must think
in beings like us, or well and preferably in other types of
living beings, that in their spiritual part they have associated
a material one; better said, a body in a better state than the
one existing for us as humans.

There is not a scientific certainty yet about this problem, even
if this seems to be closer and closer, thanks to the progress of
science and study. Regarding the theological and biblical aspect
of this matter, we can remark three points, three affirmations
in favour from the various considerations:

1. Before all, that exist other inhabited planets is something
possible. In the Bible there are not specific allusions to other
living beings, but neither is excluded this hypothesis, that for
this stays as possible, if we think that God's omnipotence and
wisdom have no limits, being infinite.

2. Furthermore, the existence of other inhabited planets is
something credible. In fact, there is a great diversity between
angels, merely spiritual beings and us, composed by spirit and
matter; better said, soul and flesh, but a soul that cannot act
if don't use the body as an instrument; a body that makes with
its passions and capital vices conditional the soul to the point
of make human person so fragile, and more devoted to evil than
to goodness. Therefore is credible that this enormous distance
between us and the angels could be reduced by the presence of
beings that, havingalso a body (even if more perfect), their
soul is less conditioned on their intelligent and volitional
acting.

If necessary, there is another confirmation upon the very
ancient saying of Lucrezio Caro: "Natura non facit saltus"; a
very famous phrase (that I found on the "De rerum natura") and
quoted - regarding that argument - also by some theologians.

Another consideration is taken for the aim of the creation, or
well the Glory of God, a concept that you can find several times
on the Bible. For instance, Psalm 18 begins by saying precisely:
"heavens sing the glory of God". But only human person is able
to give this glory to God in a conscious way, because it has
intelligence and free will.

Precisely for this, several theologians say, is not only
possible but credible, that in the spaces that are distant and
inaccessible for men and his scientific instruments, do exist
other beings able to know God as their Creator, and also they
give Him this Glory, that for them and their worlds represent
the aim of Creation.

Jesuit Father Domenico Grasso, Professor of Theology at the
Pontifical Gregorian University wrote on purpose: "Why all the
perfection God has spread so widely in the universe should be
kept hidden without singing the glory of God? Wouldn't it be a
discordance unsuitable for God? Who writes a book knowing that
it will never be read by anyone, or well who paints a painting
to hide it from anyone's sight?".

He claims regarding the statements made by German theologian
Joseph Pohle in one of his books of 1904 (page 457): "It seems
to be accordingly with the aim of the world that inhabitable
celestial bodies are settled by creatures that recognise the
glory of God in the physical beauties of their worlds, in the
same way man does with his smaller world" ("Die Sternewelt
undihre Bewohner" - "The Stars of Universe and its Inhabitants";
K=F6ln 1904; pp. 457). Finally Father Grassoconcludes: "we must
think in the angels to know where God receives the glory from
these worlds from, because them, that are purely spiritual, "are
not able to know the matter but indirectly, in the same way man
does with the spirit" (ib.).

3. Beyond to be something possible and credible, I would see
desirable the inhabitability of other planets. In a future, even
if very remote, these eventual inhabitants, superior to us,
could be very helpful to us, specially in our spiritual path. In
a non practical way, they could had been protecting and helping
us since long time ago.

If it is the case that they do really exist intelligent beings
on other planets, it would be easier to understand how to
conciliate their existence with the redemption of Christ. As St.
Paul says (cfr. Col. 1, 16-17), a real fact is that Christ is
the centre and head of the creation of the universe. Therefore
there are no worlds without a reference of Him. From the Bible
is possible to assure that Christ, as Incarnated Verb, has total
influence upon all the possible inhabited planets.

I quote what said by St. Paul to the Colossians: "For by Him all
things were created that are in heaven and that are on Earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
principalities or powers. All things were created through Him
and for Him. And He is before all things and in Him all things
consist... For it pleased the Father that in Him all the
fullness should dwell. And by Him to reconcile all things to
Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven,
having made peace through the blood of His cross" (Col. 1, 16-
20).

The Church celebrates the last Sunday of the Liturgical Year
(before the Advent) as the Feast of Christ, King of the
universe, and in its liturgy the universality of His kingdom is
remembered, which is also expressed in the daily Mass.

III. Algunos testimonios a favor.
There exist several interesting statements on the inhabitability
of other worlds by lay scientists, theologians or servants of
God which already qualified for a process of beatification or
canonisation. Obviously I'll limit myself to quote just some of
them.

Beginning with the laymen, let me quote the great French
scientist Charles Richet (1850 - 1935), that was, among other
things, a materialist. In 1922, in his "Trait=E8 de
M=E8tapsychique", he stated: "Do we have any right to claim, just
because of our limited senses and our mistaken intelligence,
that man is the onlyintelligent being in this immense cosmos?...
That other intellectual forces, different from us, exist, is not
only possible but extremely probable. It is even certain... It
is absurd to claim that we are the only intelligence in
nature... The existence of these beings cannot be proven, but
the probability of their existence is evident" (loc. cit., Paris
1922, pp. 787-788).

I remember 5 theologians:

1. Cardinal Nicol=F2 Cusano (1401 - 1464), philosopher and
scientist that said: "We are not authorised to exclude that on
another star beings do exist, even if they are completely
different from us".

2. The Jesuit Father and astronomer Fr. Angelo Secchi (1818 -
 1876) wrote: "It is absurd to claim that the worlds surrounding
us are large, uninhabited deserts and that the meaning of the
universe lies just in our small, inhabited planet.".

3. The famous Dominican preacher Jacques-Marie-Louis Monsabre
(1827 - 1907) referred to the principle "Natura non facit
saltus" when he claimed that other intelligent beings besides
men and angels exist.

4. The already quoted English Jesuit Father Herbert Thurston
wrote: "Who can claim that there are no other intelligent beings
besides these 3 categories of angels, demons and men in the
Universe of God? I do not intend to confirm the possibility I
indicated in my question as a fact, but I ask: Who can be sure
about it?" (Op. Cit., pp. 3).

5. German Theologian Giuseppe Pohle: "Hypothesis of the
plurality of inhabited worlds is totally favourable to the glory
of the Lord. God creates for His glory, and any glory is
possible without intelligentbeings, able to know the creation of
the Lord"

I remember two persons for whom there is already going on their
process of canonisation:

1. The Salesian Father and Servant of God Don Andrea Beltrami
(1870 - 1897) who prayed also for the possible inhabitants of
other planets. Of the 16 booklets he wrote, one seems to deal
with this topic (and I say "seems" because unfortunately I was
not able to know the titles of his 16 publications).

2. The second (with whom I want to close this paper), is the
already sanctified Padre Pio, who was beatified by Pope John
Paul II on May 2, 1999 and canonised on June 16, 2002. From St.
Fr. Pio, the following dialogue is documented and officially
published by the Cappuchin Order: Question: "Father, some claim
that there are creatures of God on other planets, too". Answer:
"What else? Do you think they don't exist and that God's
omnipotence is limited to this small planet Earth? What else? Do
you think there are no other beings who love the Lord?".

Another question: "Father, I think the Earth is nothing compared
to other planets and stars". Answer: "Exactly! Yes, and we
Earthlings are nothing, too. The Lord certainly did not limit
His glory to this small Earth. On other planets other beings
exist who did not sin and fall as we did". (Don Nello Castello:
"Cos=EC parl=F2 Padre Pio"; Vicenza, 1974).

Lac. Corrado Balducci
Rome, C. 7 / 6 / 2001







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                          New On-Line UFO Magazine

From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:57:22 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:16:21 -0400
Subject: New On-Line UFO Magazine



The first edition of UFO Review, a new and free on-line magazine
can be found at:

http://www.uforeview.net

This is unconnected with UFO Monthly.


Stuart Miller








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

               Re: Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:02:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:24:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence - Stanford


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 08:15:03 -0400
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence


>Source: Global Village News and Resources Issue 85

>http://www.gvnr.com/85/editorial.htm

>05-03-05


>Guest Editorial

>Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence
>by
>Monsignor Lac. Corrado Balducci

To be honest, Balducci is not the Vatican. Nor do such run-on,
convoluted, and muddled tirades constitute official statements
of the Roman Catholic Church. Perhaps one should attribute the
pretentious title more to Richard Boylan (Yikes!) than to
Balducci, however.

Whitley Strieber has reported at:

http://www.beyondcommunion.com/confirmation/9804bal.html

"Msgr. Balducci told me personally when I asked him about his
relationship to the Pope that he knows the Pope and is friendly
with him. When I asked him if the Pope was aware of his views on
UFOs, he said that they had not discussed the matter per se, but
had talked together about issues of demonology."

It's plain and simple: Balducci is clearly _not_ an official
Vatican spokesman on UFOs or concerning their alleged occupants
or intentions. The title given to the Balducci paper's title is
highly misleading and, I suspicion, deliberately deceptive.

Boylan makes the, IMO, idiotic statement in his preface, that
Balducci (in the paper), "...makes an air-tight case for the
reality and acceptability of Star Visitor contacts with humans".
I read the entire thing and it is not only not water-tight, but,
IMO, contains no scientifically acceptable 'water' (evidence of
ET visitation).

While the title, "Vatican Acknowledges ET Presence" can
justifiably be accused of intellectual dishonesty, the muddled
assortment of factoids and run-on drivel (n., stupid or
senseless talk) that Balducci shovels out in that "Guest
Editorial" should in no way be mistaken for an official church
announcement. Furthermore, Global Village News & Resources, P.O.
Box 10989, Asheville, NC. 29914, is absolutely not an official
mouthpiece for he church. :)

Unlike 'fundamentalist Christianity', the Roman Catholic Church
wisely acknowledges evolution and the possibility (and even the
likelihood) of life having evolved on other planets, but
Balducci's, IMO, muddled talk on the issue is typical of some of
his earlier statements and cannot be justifiably said to
represent Vatican confirmation of "ET Presence", to quote the
title. Acknowledging that physical ET life probably exists
somewhere, is a far cry from stating that it is visiting earth.
The Roman Catholic Church has acknowledged the former but has
taken no stand on the latter.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                          Secrecy News -- 05/07/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:00:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:28:38 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/07/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 43
May 7, 2004


**      ISOO WILL INVESTIGATE SECRECY OF TORTURE REPORT
**      SSCI REPORT ON 2005 INTELLIGENCE AUTHORIZATION
**      FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE REACHED NEW HIGH IN 2003
**      TRACING THE SIZE OF THE INTELLIGENCE BUDGET


ISOO WILL INVESTIGATE SECRECY OF TORTURE REPORT

The Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO) will
investigate the decision to classify a U.S. Army report
concerning the torture of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. military
personnel, its director said yesterday.

The ISOO is responsible for oversight of classification policy
in the executive branch.

In an apparent violation of classification rules, the report by
Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba, which identified numerous illegal
acts of abuse, was classified Secret/No Foreign Dissemination.

Yet the executive order that governs national security
classification states that "In no case shall information be
classified in order to... conceal violations of law...."

The ISOO move, reported in the Washington Post today, came in
response to a May 6 letter from the Federation of American
Scientists questioning the secrecy of the Army report and
requesting an investigation.

"It is disappointing to realize that in this case the national
security classification system functioned, intentionally or not,
to cover up an egregious set of crimes," the FAS letter said.
See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/05/sa050604.pdf

"It is my intent to pursue the issues you identified in your
letter," ISOO director William Leonard promptly responded.  "I
will advise you when my review is complete."  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/05/isoo050604.pdf

Mr. Leonard noted in a telephone interview that ISOO is already
investigating related Defense Department classification policies
regarding detention and interrogation activities at Guantanamo
Bay.


SSCI REPORT ON 2005 INTELLIGENCE AUTHORIZATION

The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence tentatively set the
stage for future intelligence reforms in its new report on the
FY 2005 intelligence authorization act.

"This Committee is impatient for real reforms in information
sharing and data access.  Intelligence data that is collected by
the U.S. Government belongs to the U.S. Government--not the
intelligence agency that happened to collect it," the Committee
report said pointedly.

"Although efforts have been made to surmount restrictions, some
information sharing limitations have reemerged in the very
programs that were designed to address them.  The operations of
the Terrorist Threat Integration Center (TTIC) are a prime
example of this transfer of limitations," the report observed.

However, the Committee's "impatient" concern with overcoming
arbitrary restrictions on intelligence information does not
extend to improving public access to such information.  The new
intelligence authorization act perpetuates without comment the
classification of the intelligence budget, as if this were a
vital national security secret.

Among various other provisions, the new authorization bill
proposes to repeal the eight year term limit on membership on
the Senate Intelligence Committee.

See Senate Report 108-258 on the FY 2005 Intelligence
Authorization Act here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_rpt/s108-258.html


FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE REACHED NEW HIGH IN 2003

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which authorizes
domestic counterintelligence search and surveillance operations,
approved a record high number of such operations last year.

According to a new annual report to Congress, 1724 applications
for search or surveillance were approved by the Court, in whole
or in part.  Four applications were denied.

By comparison, 1228 applications were submitted and approved in
the preceding year.

A copy of the 2003 annual report to Congress on the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance Act is available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/2003rept.pdf

While it is clear that these numbers are growing significantly,
their meaning is fairly opaque.  It is unclear how many distinct
investigations they cover, what proportion are physical searches
as opposed to electronic surveillance actions, and how many
pertain to U.S. persons or foreign targets.

A provision in the 2005 intelligence authorization act that is
pending in the Senate would expand reporting on the FISA and
would make some such information available in future annual
reports to Congress.

See Section 305, "Additional Annual Reporting Requirements Under
the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978," in the
Senate version of the 2005 intelligence authorization act (S.
2386) here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/s2386.html#305


TRACING THE SIZE OF THE INTELLIGENCE BUDGET

Intelligence budget secrecy is the cornerstone of an outmoded
classification system that promotes mediocrity in U.S.
intelligence.  What honest intelligence professional would
endorse the claim of classifiers that publication of a single
budget number would "damage national security"?

But bureaucratic secrecy continues to trump analytical
integrity, and even the aggregate annual intelligence budget
figure remains classified.

Nevertheless, it is possible to establish the broad parameters
of intelligence spending over the past several decades based
exclusively on official sources.  An initial compilation of such
sources is available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/budget/index.html

A look back at the rise and fall (and rise again) of
intelligence spending puts into perspective the often-voiced
complaint that U.S. intelligence suffered "severe" budget cuts
in the 1990s. It turns out that even at its lowest point in the
1990s, the intelligence budget was still 80% higher (in real
terms) than it had been in 1980.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                       Did Viruses Precede Other Life?

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 08:41:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:35:00 -0400
Subject: Did Viruses Precede Other Life?


"I don't think it's science fiction any more, to believe or to
investigate that forms of life itself or pre-life molecules like
viruses maybe could have come to the Earth from space. What's
really impressive about life is how it can adapt to just
unbelievable environments, and I think the ability for life to
travel through space is possible."

Source: The Scientist

http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20040506/01

May 6, 2004

Did Viruses Precede Other Life?

Structural studies on ancient virus reveal clues about the
evolution of life on Earth

By Cathy Holding

Viruses share a common ancestor that existed over 3 billion
years ago and may even have preceded cellular forms of life,
according to a report in the May 3 PNAS by George Rice and
colleagues at Montana State University.

Based on a comparison of known virus types and an icosahedral
virus isolated from a hot spring in Yellowstone National Park,
the team found that coat proteins in all viral types that
inhabit the three domains of life=97Eukarya, Bacteria, and
Archaea=97have conformational similarities even though the
genetics underlying them is quite different.

Nearly all of the Yellowstone virus' 36 predicted open reading
frame products showed no significant similarity to proteins in
public databases, and so basic structural and assembly
principles in this virus were compared instead, revealing an
"astounding" similarity with all virus types, according to the
authors.

"This suggests that this type of coat protein arrangement
preceded the split of the three domains of life over 3 billion
years ago," Mark A. Young, the team's leader and coauthor of the
paper, told The Scientist.

Virus genes evolve so quickly that it is very difficult to trace
relationships over long evolutionary distances on the basis of
sequence, said David Prangishvili, from the Department of
Microbiology at Regensburg University. To investigate
evolutionary considerations, more sophisticated criteria than
simple sequence similarity are required. "There is this pressure
upon the conservation of the structure, although the sequence is
changing so very much," said Prangishvili, who was not involved
in the study.

Young said that this kind of evidence supports the notion that
viruses are indeed very old and likely were present at the time
of first life, if not before. He said that he believed that
viruses=97or progenitors of viruses=97preceded the formation of
cellular life on this planet.

"I think there's a huge evolutionary consequence, the
realization that viruses are everywhere and life has been
everywhere for a long time," said Young, a professor in the
Department of Plant Sciences and Plant Pathology at Montana
State University. This fact, combined with the information from
genome projects indicating that viral signatures are very common
in many genomes, suggests that viruses play a major role in
driving evolution of life on this planet, he said.

The research was partially supported by the US National
Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and by the National
Science Foundation. Astrobiology often takes researchers into
extreme environments so that they can understand how life may
have begun. "We use Yellowstone as a laboratory to develop
techniques and to find interesting novel viruses that
essentially replicate in boiling acid," said Young.

"To a certain degree, [this work] helps NASA and other agencies
to think about how to look for life when you don't really know
what you're looking for," Young said.

For example, Young said he thought it highly likely that
lifelike or organic molecules could have been delivered to Earth
from non-Earth based bodies. "I don't think it's science fiction
any more, to believe or to investigate that forms of life itself
or pre-life molecules like viruses maybe could have come to the
Earth from space. What's really impressive about life is how it
can adapt to just unbelievable environments, and I think the
ability for life to travel through space is possible."

"It's a new world which is opening," said Marie-Claude Serre, at
the Institut de G=E9n=E9tique et Microbiologie. "As the authors
point out, there are very few viruses from Archaea that have
been isolated, and there are already a lot of new families of
viruses that have been defined, so it's just like a new world to
explore. It's really nice work, and very exciting to see
something in 3D," said Serre, who was not involved in the study.

Links for this article G. Rice et al., "The structure of a
thermophilic archaeal virus shows a double-stranded DNA viral
capsid type that spans all domains of life," PNAS,
doi:10.1073/pnas.0401773101, May 3, 2004.

http://www.pnas.org/

Tree of Life Web Project

http://tolweb.org/tree?group=3DLife_on_Earth&contgroup

Mark A. Young

http://plantsciences.montana.edu/Faculty/young.htm


David Prangishvili

http://www.biologie.uni-regensburg.de/Mikrobio/Thomm/E/dprangishvili.htm


I. Oransky, "Astrobiologists gather at NASA," The Scientist, April 1, 2004.=


http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20040401/04/


Marie-Claude Serre

http://www.igmors.u-psud.fr/Welcome.html



-- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                 Lewis On Mediaeval & Renaissance Fairies Or

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 08:45:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:46:38 -0400
Subject: Lewis On Mediaeval & Renaissance Fairies Or


Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:52:00 -0700
From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
  To: forteana.nul
Subj: FWD [forteana] C.S. Lewis on mediaeval & Renaissance fairies or=
 "Longaevi"


Dear Friends, Forteans, and Listmates,

As G.K. Chesterton once noted, "There is something sinister
about putting a leprechaun in the workhouse. The only solid
comfort is that he certainly will not work."

C.S. Lewis used Chesterton's remark as the opening motto for his
chapter on mediaeval and Renaissance beliefs about the
"Longaevi" ("long-livers") or fairies in 'The Discarded Image:
An Introduction to Medieval and Renaissance Literature'
(Cambridge: At the University Press, 1964).

C.S. Lewis is now remembered mostly as a Christian apologist and
as the author of the "Narnia" children's fantasies and the 'Out
of the Silent Planet' science-fiction trilogy. However, he was
also a scholar of mediaeval and Renaissance literature. Lewis
wrote 'The Discarded Image' as a handbook on the philosophical,
cosmological, and historical world-picture or "Model," often
quite unfamiliar to us moderns, underlying mediaeval and
Renaissance literature. In his chapter on the "Longaevi" (pp.
122-138), Lewis treated a literary and folkloric theme of
interest not only to students of mediaeval literature but also
to "Fortean" students of curious contemporary phenomena. Not
only do rural folk in Ireland, Scotland, Scandinavia, and
elsewhere still claim first-hand sightings of fairies, gnomes,
trolls, and leprechauns in our own time, but UFO "close
encounter" witnesses and "abductees" report "aliens" curiously
reminiscent of the 'Longaevi'. Lewis treated the 'Longaevi' as a
quaint mediaeval folk-belief and literary device, with little
awareness of them as precursors of an eerie modern reality.

Lewis put the "'Longaevi' or longlivers" into a separate chapter
as their "place of residence" in the mediaeval cosmology was
"ambiguous between air and Earth." Paradoxically, Lewis felt,
"their unimportance is their importance" in the mediaeval world-
view, as "marginal fugitive creatures." They were "perhaps the
only creatures" to whom the mediaeval "Model" did "not assign,
as ii were, an official status."There lay their "imaginative
value" for Lewis. They helped "soften the classic severity of
the huge design." They intruded a "welcome hint of wildness and
uncertainty into a universe that is in danger of being a little
too self-explanatory, too luminous." (C.S. Lewis, 'The Discarded
Image', p. 122). In other words, though Lewis may have been
unaware of the anthropological concept, the mediaeval 'Longaevi'
were Trickster figures, more properly Tricksters than the
solemnly malevolent Satan and his demons of official Christian
theology. As Tricksters, the 'Longaevi' recall the Tricksterly,
"liminal," "anti-structural," boundary- and category-crossing
qualities found in all paranormal phenomena (ESP, ghosts,
poltergeists, UFO's, "aliens," Bigfoot, etc.) by
parapsychologist George P. Hansen in 'The Trickster and the
Paranormal' (Philadelphia: Xlibris, 2001).

Lewis took the name 'Longaevi' from the late 4th and early 5th
century A.D. North African literary scholar Martianus Capella.
In his 'De Nuptiis Philologiae et Mercurii' ("On the Marriage of
Philology and Mercury," ca. 400 A.D.), Capella mentioned
"dancing companies of 'Longaevi' who haunt woods, glades, and
groves, and lakes and springs and brooks; whose names are Pans,
Fauns...Satyrs, Silvans, Nymphs. ..' (Martianus Capella, 'De
Nuptiis Mercurii et Philologiae', ed. F. Eyssenhardt (Leipzig,
1866), II, 167, p. 45, quoted by Lewis, p. 122). Lewis also
quoted the mediaeval scholar Bernardus Silvestris, who without
using the word 'Longaevi', described similar creatures -
 "Silvans, Pans, and Nerei" - as having "a longer life" than
ours, though they were not immortal. Bernardus considered them
innocent - "of blameless conversation" - with bodies of
elemental purity.(Bernardus Silvestris, 'De Mundi Universitate'
(ed. Barach and Wrobel, Innsbruck, 1876) . II Pros. VII, p. 50,
quoted by Lewis, p. 122).

The "alternative," Lewis admitted, would have been to call them
"Fairies" as a chapter title. That word, however, was "tarnished
by pantomime and bad children's books with worse illustrations."
It "might," he feared, "encourage us to bring to the subject
some ready-made, modern concept of a Fairy and to read the old
texts in the light of it." Lewis, rather, felt that we "must go
to the texts with an open mind and learn from them what the word
=91fairy' meant to our ancestors." (Lewis, p. 123) To introduce
the original mediaeval and Renaissance significance of "fairy,"
Lewis quoted three passages from Milton:

(I) No evil thing that walks by night
In fog or fire, by lake or moorish fen,
Blue meagre Hag or stubborn unlaid ghost
No goblin or swart Faery of the mine.
('Comus', 432 seq.)

(2) Like that Pigmean Race
Beyond the Indian Mount, or Faery Elves,
Whose midnight Revels, by a Forest side
Or Fountain some belated Peasant sees. ..
('Paradise Lost', I, 780 seq.)

(3) And Ladies of th ' Hesperides, that seem' d
Fairer than feign'd of old, or fabl'd since
Of Fairy Damsels met in Forest wide
By Knights of Logres, or of Lyones -
('Paradise Regained', II, 357 seq.)

Milton "lived too late to be direct evidence for medieval
beliefs." Still, these passages showed the "complexity of the
tradition which the Middle Ages had bequeathed to him and his
public" about "fairies." (Lewis, p. 123). Another, earlier
"witness to this complexity" was that "within the same island
and the same century Spenser could compliment Elizabeth I by
identifying her with the Faerie Queene and a woman could be
burned at Edinburgh in 1576 for 'repairing with the fairies and
the 'Queen of Elfame.'"(M. W. Latham, 'The Elizabethan Fairies'
(Columbia, 1940), p. 16, quoted in Lewis, 'The Discarded Image',
p. 124.)

The "swart Faery" in 'Comus' was "classified among horrors."
This was "one strand in the tradition." 'Beowulf' ranked the
elves ('ylfe', III) along with "ettins" and giants, "as the
enemies of God." In the ballad of 'Isabel and the Elf-Knight',
the "elf-knight" was "a sort of Bluebeard." In Gower, Constance
was slandered as "of faierie" because she had given birth to a
monster ('Confessio', II, 964 sq.). The 'Catholicon Anglicum' of
1483 gave 'lamia' and 'eumenis' (fury) as the Latin for "elf";
Horman's 'Vulgaria' (1519), 'strix' and 'lamia' for "fairy". We
might ask, "Why not 'nympha'?" But 'nymph'., according to Lewis,
"would not have mended matters." It "also could be a name of
terror to our ancestors."Corsites cried "What are these so fayre
fiendes that cause my hayres to stand upright?" in John Lyly's
'Endymion' (IV, iii), "Hags! Out alas! Nymphs!". Michael Drayton
spoke in 'Mortimer to Queen Isabel' of "the dishevelled gastly
sea-Nymph" (77). (C.S. Lewis, p. 124). Athanasius Kircher said
to an apparition "Aie ! I fear ye be one of those daemons whom
the ancients called Nymphs," and received the reassurance, "I am
no Lilith nor lamia." (Kircher, 'Iter Extaticum II qui et Mundi
Subterranei Prodromos dicitur' (Rome: Typis Mascardi, 1657), II,
I, quoted in Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', pp. 124-125) Reginald
Scot listed "fairies" and "nymphes" among bugbears used to
frighten children: "Our mothers' maids have so terrified us"
with "spirits, witches, urchins, elves, hags, fairies, satyrs,
pans, faunes, sylens, tritons, centaurs, dwarfs, giants,
nymphes, Incubus, Robin good fellow, the spoom, the man in the
oke, the fire-drake, the puckle, Tom Thombe, Tom tumbler
boneles, and such other bugs."(Reginald Scot, 'Discouerie of
Witchcraft' (1584), VII, xv, quoted in Lewis, 'The Discarded
Image', p. 125).

This "dark view" of the Fairies "gained ground," Lewis thought,
in the 16th and early 17th centuries, "an unusually hag-ridden
period." Raphael Holinshed suggested that Macbeth's three
temptresses might be "some nymphs or fairies". Nor "has this
dread ever since quite disappeared," Lewis felt. Lewis himself
once stayed at a lonely place in Ireland said to be haunted both
by a ghost and by the so-called "good people." He gathered "it
was the fairies rather than the ghost" that led his neighbors to
"give it such a wide berth at night." (C.S. Lewis, 'The
Discarded Image', p. 125).

The second Miltonic passage quoted by Lewis illustrated to a
different, less sinister and terrifying, conception of the
Fairies as "little people." It was more familiar to us because
Shakespeare, Michael Drayton, and William Browne made a literary
use of it. From their use "descend the minute and almost
insectal fairies of the debased modern convention with their
antennae and gauzy wings."(Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', p.
127). Milton's "Faery Elves" were compared to the "Pigmean
Race". So in the ballad of 'The Wee Wee Man',

<<When we came to the stair foot
Ladies were dancing jimp and sma.>>
(Quoted in Lewis, p. 127)

Richard Bovet spoke in his 'Pandaemonium' (1684) of the fairies
"appearing like men and women of a stature generally near the
smaller size of man." Robert Burton mentioned "places in Germany
where they do usually walk in little coats, some two feet
long."(Burton, 'Anatomy of Melancholy', Pt. I, 2., M. I, subs.,
quoted in Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', p. 127). A housemaid
Lewis' own family had when he was a boy, who had seen them near
Dundrum in County Down, described them ('The Discarded Image',
p. 127) as "the size of children" (age unspecified).

However, Lewis noted, "when we have said 'smaller than men' we
can define the size of these Fairies no further." Discussions as
to whether they were "merely dwarfish, or Lilliputian, or even
insectal," were "quite out of place;" as "the visual imagination
of medieval and earlier writers never for long worked to scale,"
medieval artists and writers being quite indifferent to
perspective and scale. Mediaeval writers mentioning the size of
fairies, giants, dwarfs, or gods were vague and often
inconsistent from one line or passage to another. Thus, Michael
Drayton in 'Nimphidia' made Oberon "big enough to catch a wasp
in his arms at line 201 and small enough to ride on an ant at
line 242." Popular belief about the exact size of fairies "was
probably itself as incurably vague and incoherent as the
literature."(Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', pp. 127-128).

In this kind of Fairy the small size, however, was "less
important than some other features." Milton's "Faery Elves" were
"on thir mirth and dance Intent" (I, 786). The peasant had
"blundered upon them by chance." They had "nothing to do with
him nor he with them." The previous kind, the "swart Faery of
the Mine," might "meet you intentionally, and, if so, his
intentions would certainly be sinister; this kind not." They
appeared, "often with no suggestion that they are smaller than
men" (Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', pp. 128-129), in places
where they might have expected no mortal to see them:

<<And ofte in forme of womman in moni deorne [secret] weie Me
sicth [i.e., one sees] of hom gret companie bothe hoppe and
pleie>> (Burton, 'Anatomy of Melancholy', Pt. I, 2., M. I,
subs., quoted in Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', p. 129).

In Chaucer's "Wife of Bath's Tale," Lewis noted, "we have the
dance again, and it vanishes at the approach of a human
spectator" (D 991 sq). Spenser took over the motif and made his
dancing graces vanish when Calidore intruded upon their revels
('Faerie Queene', VI, x). Thomson in 'The Castle of Indolence'
(I, xxx) also mentioned the vanishing ('The Discarded Image',
(p. 129).

Lewis saw a vast difference between such Fairies and those
mentioned in 'Comus' or Reginald Scot's 'Discouerie of
Witchcraft'. Even the second sort might be "slightly alarming,"
of course: "the heart of Milton's peasant beats 'at once with
joy and fear'." The vision "startles by its otherness." However,
there was "no horror or aversion on the human side." These
"creatures flee from man, not man from them." The "mortal who
observes them (only so long as he remains unobserved himself)
feels that he has committed a sort of trespass." His "delight"
was "that of seeing fortuitously - in a momentary glimpse - a
gaiety and daintiness to which our own laborious life is simply
irrelevant."(Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', p. 129). Writers like
Drayton and Shakespeare developed these gay, dainty fairies
"into a comic device which, from the first, has lost nearly all
the flavour of popular belief " From Shakespeare, modified by
Pope's sylphs, they descended "with increasing prettification
and triviality, till we reach the fairies whom children are
supposed to enjoy" (Lewis, pp. 129-130).

With the "Fairy Damsels" of Lewis' third Miltonic passage we
reach a kind of :Fairy "more important for the reader of
medieval literature and less familiar to modern imagination."
The "Fairy Damsels" were "met in forest wide." 'Met' was "the
important word," as the "encounter is not accidental." They
"have come to find us, and their intentions are usually (not
always) amorous."Modern Fortean readers will immediately
recognize here the foreshadowing of contemporary UFO abductions
with their "alien" sexual, reproductive, and cross-breeding
activities. The "Fairy Damsels" were the 'f=E9es' of French
romance, the 'fays' of English romance, and the 'fate' of the
Italians. Launfal's mistress, the lady who carried off Thomas
the Rymer, the fairies in 'Orfeo', Bercilak in 'Gawain' (called
"an alvish man" on line 681), were "of this kind." Malory's
Morgan le Fay had "been humanised," but "her Italian equivalent
'Fata Morgana' is a full Fairy." Merlin, "only half human by
blood and never shown practising magic 'as an art',"was "almost"
of this order. They were "usually of at least fully human
stature," with "beauty, gravity, and almost numinous character."
Lewis called this type the "High Fairies" ('The Discarded
Image', p. 130). In modern terms, they perhaps foreshadowed the
handsome, fully-human-looking "Nordics" reported by some UFO
abductees and "close encounter" witnesses.

These "High Fairies" showed a "combination of characteristics
which. we do not easily digest." On the one hand, they had a
"hard, bright, and vividly material splendour." Where a "modern
might expect the mysterious and the shadowy he meets a blaze of
wealth and luxury." The Fairy King in Sir Orfeo came "with over
a hundred knights and a hundred ladies, on white horses." His
crown was "a single huge gem as bright as the sun "(142-52).His
own country, too, had "nothing shadowy or insubstantial," but "a
castle that shines like crystal, a hundred towers, a good moat,
buttresses of gold, rich carvings" (355 seq.). In 'Thomas the
Rymer' the Fairy wore "green silk and a velvet mantle," and "her
horse's mane jingles with fifty-nine silver bells." Bercilak's
clothes and equipment were "described with almost fulsome detail
in 'Gawain' (151-220)." The Fairy in 'Sir Launfal' "dressed her
waiting women in 'Inde sandel', green velvet embroidered with
gold, and coronets each containing more than sixty precious
stones (232-9)." Her pavilion was of "Saracenic work," the knobs
on its tent-poles were of crystal, and the whole was "surmounted
by a golden eagle so enriched with enamel and carbuncles that
neither Alexander nor Arthur had anything so precious (266-76)."
(Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', pp. 130-131).

However, "despite this material splendour, shown to us in full
light and almost photographically detailed," the High Fairies
could "at any moment be as elusive as those =91Faerie Elves' who
are glimpsed dancing =91by a forest side or fountain.'" Orfeo
awaited the Fairy King "with a guard of a thousand knights, but
it is all no use." His wife was "carried off, no one sees how" -
 abducted "with fairi forth ynome" and "men wist never wher she
was bicome" (193-4). Before we see the Fairies again, in their
own realm, they have "faded to a =91dim cri and blowing' heard far
off in the woods." Launfal's mistress could be "met only in
secret, in =91deme stede' ; there she will come to him, but no one
will see her coming (353 sq.)." (Lewis, 'The Discarded Image',
p. 132).

Still, Launfal's mistress was "very palpable flesh and blood
when she is there." The High Fairies were "vital, energetic,
wilful, passionate beings". Launfal's Fairy lay "in her rich
pavilion naked down to the waist, white as a lily, red as a
rose." Her "first words demand his love." An "excellent lunch
follows, and then to bed (289-348)." Modern abductees, alas, are
no longer treated to the "excellent lunch," and undergo
operating-table artificial insemination or sperm-collection more
often than "to bed."Thomas the Rymer's Fairy showed herself "a
stirring and sportive creature, =91a lady gay come out to hunt in
her follee.' Bercilak was "the best of all in his mingled
ferocity and geniality , his complete mastery of every
situation, his madcap mirth." Two descriptions of fairies, from
a later and an earlier period, came "far nearer to the High
Fairies of the Middle Ages than anything our modern imaginations
would be likely to produce." A "'rowdy' High Fairy" might "seem
to us a kind of oxymoron." However, Robert Kirk called some of
them "wights like furious hardie men" in his 'Secret
Commonwealth' (1691).('The Discarded Image', pp. 132-133). An
old Irish poet described them as "routing battalions of enemies,
devastating every land they attack, great killers, noisy in the
beer-house, makers of songs."(L. Abercrombie, 'Romanticism'
(1926), p. 53, quoted in Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', p. 133.)

If we call the High Fairies "spirits," Lewis noted, we must
recall Blake's warning that "a Spirit and a Vision are not, as
the modern philosophy supposes, a cloudy vapour or a nothing,"
but "are organised and minutely articulated beyond all that the
mortal and perishing nature can produce." ('Descriptive
Catalogue', IV, quoted in 'The Discarded Image', p. 133). If we
call them "supernatural," we must also recall that "their life
is, in one sense 'more' =91natural' - stronger, more reckless,
less inhibited, more triumphantly and impenitently passionate -
 than ours."They were "liberated both from the beast's perpetual
slavery to nutrition, self-protection and procreation, and also
from the responsiblities, shames, scruples. and melancholy of
Man," and "perhaps also from death." (Lewis, 'The Discarded
Image', pp. 133-134)..

These, basically, were "the three kinds of Fairies or
'Longaevi'" Lewis found "in our older literature." How far,
widely, or consistently they were believed in by mediaevals,
Lewis did not know. Still, "there was sufficient belief to
produce rival theories of their nature; attempts, which never
reached finality, to fit even these lawless vagrants into the
Model" (Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', p. 134). Lewis listed and
outlined four such theories:

"(1)That they are a third rational species distinct from angels
and men." (Lewis, p. 134)

"(2 ) That they are angels. but a special class of angels who
have been. in our jargon, 'demoted." (Lewis, p.135)

"(3) That they are the dead, or some special class of the dead."
(Lewis, p. 136)

"(4) That they are fallen angels; in other words, devils."
(Lewis, p. 137).

The first mediaeval theory, that the Fairies were a "third
rational species distinct fro m angels and men," recalls the
Muslim view of the 'jinn', and modern Fortean discussions of
"Hairy Hominids," UFO "aliens," and Earth's possible hidden
inhabitants. This third species was variously conceived by
mediaeval and Renaissance writers. The "Silvans, Pans and Nerei"
of Bernardus, who lived longer than ourselves, but not forever,
were "clearly a rational (and terrestrial) species distinct from
our own, and such figures, for all their classical names, could
be equated with Fairies." Thus, Gavin Douglas in his 'Eneados'
glossed Virgil's 'Fauni nymphaeque' (VIII, 314) with the line
"Quhilk fair folkis or than elvis cleping we". Boiardo's 'fata'
who explained that she, like all her kind, could not die till
Doomsday comes ('Orlando lnnamorato', II, xxvi, 15, quoted in
Lewis, p. 134), implied the "same conception." Another view
found the third species "among those spirits which, according to
the principle of plenitude, existed in every element" (Ficino,
'Theologia Platonica de Immortalitate'. IV, I, cited in Lewis,
p. 134) - the "spirits of every element" in 'Faustus' (151), the
"Tetrarchs of Fire, Air, Flood, and on the Earth" in 'Paradise
Regained' (IV, 201). Shakespeare's Ariel "would be a tetrarch of
air." The "most precise account of the elementals," however,
would "leave only one of their kinds to be strictly identified
with the Fairies."(Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', pp. 134-135).

Paracelsus ('De Nymphis', etc., I, 2, 3, 6, cited in Lewis, p.
135) enumerated: (a) 'Nymphae' or 'Undinae', of water, who were
human in stature, and talked; (b) 'Sylphi' or 'Silvestres', of
air, who were larger than men and did not speak; (c) 'Gnomi' or
'Pygmaei', of earth, about two spans high and very taciturn; (d)
'Salamandrae' or 'Vulcani', of fire. The Nymphs or Undines were
"clearly Fairies" for Lewis. The Gnomes were "closer to the
Dwarfs of 'm=E4rchen'." Paracelsus was a comparatively late
author, but was still "in part anyway, using much earlier
folklore." In the 14th century, the Lusignan family "boasted a
water-spirit among their ancestresses." (S. Runciman, 'History
of the Crusades' (1954), vol. II, p. 424, cited in Lewis, p.
135). Later still, "we get the theory of a third rational
species with no attempt to identify it." The 'Discourse
concerning Devils and Spirits', added in 1665 to Reginald Scot's
'Discouerie of Witchcraft', said "their nature is middle between
Heaven and Hell... they reign in a third kingdom, having no
other judgement or doom to expect forever." Finally, Robert Kirk
in his 'Secret Commonwealth' identified them with those aerial
people "of a middle nature between Man and Angel, as were
Daemons thought to be of old" (Lewis,'The Discarded Image', p.
135).

The view of Fairies as "demoted" or semi-fallen angels was
developed in the 'South English Legendary'.('South English
Legendary', Vol. II, pp. 408-410, cited in Lewis, 'The Discarded
Image', pp. 135-136) When Lucifer rebelled, he and his foIlowers
were cast into Hell. There were also angels, however, who
"somdel [somewhat, in some degree] with him hulde": "fellow-
travellers" who did not actually .join Lucifer's rebellion.
These were "banished into the lower and more turbulent levels of
the airy region," to "remain there till Doomsday after which
they go to Hell." Thirdly, there was also "a party of the
centre," angels who were only "somdel in misthought" - waverers
"almost, but not quite, guilty of sedition." These were
banished, "some to the higher and calmer levels of air, some to
various places on earth, including the Earthly Paradise." Both
the second and the third group sometimes communicated with men
in dreams. Of those 'eluene' seen dancing by mortals, many would
return to Heaven at Doomsday (Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', p.
136).

The view of the Fairies as the dead also had its devotees. In
the late 12th century, Walter Map twice told the story of the
"Dead Woman's Sons" in his 'De Nugis Curialium' (II, xiii; IV,
viii, cited by Lewis, p. 136). There was in Map's time a family
known as The Dead Woman's Sons ('filii mortuae'). A Breton
knight had buried his wife, who was "really and truly dead" -
 're vera mortuam'. Later, passing at night through a lonely
valley, he saw her "alive amidst a great company of ladies." He
was frightened, and wondered what was being done "by the
Fairies" ('a fatis'), but he snatched her from them and carried
her off. She lived happily with him for several years and bore
him children. Similarly in John Gower's story of Rosiphelee (
IV, 1245 seq, cited by Lewis, p. 136) "the company of ladies,
who are in all respects exactly like High Fairies, turn out to
be dead women."(Lewis, 'The Discarded Image', p. 136).

Boccaccio told the same story , and Dryden borrowed it from him
in his 'Theodore and Honoria'. In 'Thomas the Rymer', the Fairy
took Thomas to a place where the road divided into three,
leading respectively to Heaven, Hell, and "fair Elfland." Of
those who reached the latter some would finally go to Hell, as
the Devil had a right to 10 % of them every seventh year. In
'Orfeo' the poet could not make up his mind whether the place to
which the Fairies took Dame Heurodis was or was not the land of
the dead. At first sight, it was "full of people who had been
supposed dead and weren't (389-90)." That was "imaginable," as
"some whom .we think dead are only =91with the faerie.'" At the
next moment, however, it appeared "to be full of people who had
really died; the beheaded, the strangled, the drowned, those who
died in childbed (391-400)." Then we meet "those who in their
sleep were taken thither by Fairies (401-4)." ('The Discarded
Image', p. 137).

The "identity or close connection" between the Fairies and the
dead was "certainly believed in," as witches confessed to seeing
the dead among the Fairies.(M.W. Latham, The Elizabethan Fairies
(1940), p. 46, cited by Lewis, p. 137) Answers to leading
questions under torture "naturally tell us nothing about the
beliefs of the accused," Lewis admitted, but "they are good
evidence for the beliefs of the accusers." ('The Discarded
Image', p. 137).

Finally, the view of Fairies as devils "becomes almost the
official view" after the accession of James I. "That kinde of
Devils conversing in the earth," James wrote ('Daemonologie',
III, I, quoted by Lewis, pp. 137-138) , "may be divided in foure
different kindes. ..the fourth is these kinde of spirites that
are called vulgarlie the Fayrie." Burton included "Lares, Genii,
Fauns, Satyrs, Wood-Nymphs, Foliots, Fairies, Robin Good-fellow,
Trulli, etc." among terrestrial devils (Burton, 'Anatomy of
Melancholy', Pt. I, s. 2; M 1, subs. 2, quoted in Lewis, 'The
Discarded Image', p. 138).

This view, which was "closely connected with the later
Renaissance phobia about witches," went "far" to explain the
"degradation of the Fairies from their medieval vitality into
the kickshaws of Drayton or William Browne." "A churchyard or a
brimstone smell" came to "hang about any treatment of them which
was not obviously playful." Shakespeare, Lewis suggested, might
have had "practical as well as poetical reasons" for making
Oberon assure us that he and his fellows are "spirits of another
sort" than those who have to vanish at daybreak ('Dream', III,
ii, 388). "One might have expected the High Fairies to have been
expelled by science," Lewis noted; but he thought "they were
actually expelled by a darkening of superstition" in the late
16th and 17th centuries.('The Discarded Image', p. 138).

Such, C.S. Lewis concluded, "were the efforts to find a socket
into which the Fairies would fit." No agreement was achieved by
mediaeval or Renaissance writers. "As long as the Fairies
remained at all they remained evasive" ('The Discarded Image',
p. 138)

--Pax vobiscum,
T. Peter <tpeterpark.nul>
Garden City South, L.I., NY.


 -  "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                  Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <ahebert.nul>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:04:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:49:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Hebert


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:26:14 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Photo Strobing Night Object

>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 22:08:11 -0700
>>Subject: Photo Strobing Night Object

>>Strobing Night Sky Object - Photo

><snip>

>>The last week in April skies were fair and clear around these
>>parts, in Portland, OR. On several nights between 9 and 11 pm I
>>saw some apparent star-like objects on the east or west horizon
>>which seemed to strobe in multiple colors. I could remember
>>seeing red and blue strobing lights with white either
>>accompanying or alternating with the red and blue.

>If the night skies are clear and someone sees the same star-like
>objects on the horizon several nights in row, then what they are
>are seeing is just that - stars! The rapid strobing effect and
>the colours are simply the result of starlight refracting
>through the thicker unsteady and not very uniform atmosphere at
>lower elevations. These stars observed under high magnification
>are especially pretty as they rapidly change their size, shape,
>brightness and colours!

I agree with your tentative conclusion, Nick (until further
evidence is forthcoming).

I've filmed and photographed stars many times and found the same
effects.  Anyone can video tape and/or photograph stars to see
for themselves.


A. Hebert








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

             Full Report & Police Tapes On New Ohio UFO Incident

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:29:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:53:10 -0400
Subject: Full Report & Police Tapes On New Ohio UFO Incident


New 9-1-1 police tapes of a weird Centerville, Ohio incident
from March 6, 2004 are available online. A WAV version of the
911 audio tape is uploaded to:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/cntrvll911.wav

A full transcript of the 911 police tapes are available at:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/cemtertranscript04.html

And a full report on the incident is available at:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/centervillereport.html


Thanks,

Kenny Young

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo
Cincinnati UFO Hotline 513-588-4548








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:10:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:58:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:11:48 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:37:36 -0400
>>Subject: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>>Source: SpaceDaily.Com

>>>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html

>>>TERRADAILY
>>>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>>>05-04-04

>>>by Ben Bova
>>>for Astrobiolgy Magazine
>>>Moffett Field (SPX)

>>Typical Bovean Bloviation.

>>Ironically, one of the best early multiple witness sightings
>>(Rogue River, May 24, 1949; case 10 of Special Report #14)
>>involved two witnesses from Moffett Field (Ames Aeronautical
>>Laboratory near San Francisco). I suppose this has skipped
>>Bova's notice.

>Quite true, Bruce, but I suspect it didn't skip his notice (I'd
>guess you were being tongue-in-cheek.) but was ceremonially
>flushed down his pelican toilet. :) Or call it WSB (willfully
>selective blindness).

Dear Ray,

I presume you have seen Bova's response to Warren in another
message: "it's all hearsay."

So, Ray, everything you have seen for yourself... it's all
hearsay.....

And, by the way, here is a warning to all readers of this message:

If by some chance you happen to see a UFO.....

Look away immediately!!

It's only hearsay.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                      Mystery Sighting Has Neil Baffled

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:19:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:19:54 -0400
Subject: Mystery Sighting Has Neil Baffled




Source: The Sunderland Echo - UK

http://www.sunderlandtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1107&ArticleID=7867
24

06-05-04


Mystery Sighting Has Neil Baffled

Is it a bird, is it a plane or is it something from a galaxy
far, far away?

Shocked Neil Carter was putting the rubbish out in the backyard
of his Sunderland home when a mysterious flashing light caught
his eye.

Unable to tell exactly what it might be, he rushed inside,
grabbed a camera and started snapping away at the banana-shaped
object.

Mr Carter, 40, from Monkwearmouth, said: "At first it appeared
to be very small and was bobbing up and down in the sky then it
dropped down a bit and got bigger.

"It was all a bit of a shock because there was nothing else in
the sky and there appeared to be no explanation as to what it
might be."

The sighting, last Saturday at about 9.15pm, was also spotted by
Mr Carter's girlfriend.

It comes just weeks after amateur stargazer Alan Toon, 60, from
Park Estate, Hetton, spotted two lights flashing above the sky
near his home. He had also been walking outside to empty the
rubbish when he noticed the mysterious object.

Mr Carter is hoping other people in the area might have seen the
lights and could offer him some kind of explanation as to what
it might have been.

The self-employed businessman from Devonshire Street, added: "I
have always believed there might be other life out there - it
would be a shame to think there was only us.

"I really don't know exactly what it was that I saw, but I would
certainly like to try and find out. To witness something like
this is really very strange."

Reports of unexplained objects in the Wearside skies have
stretched back to the 1950s.

One of the oddest was that of Gordon Brown, who spoke to the
Echo in 1993 about the events of September 22, 1951, when he
went to Roker Park for Sunderland's clash with Portsmouth.

Despite being among thousands of potential witnesses, soldier
Gordon struggled to find anyone else to back up his story.

He was standing in the Fulwell End when a man in front of him
pointed at something in the sky, a small object shaped like a
child's spinning top about 20,000ft up, which hovered above the
ground for about half an hour.

In 1996, a strange craft was seen over Hendon, emitting bright
yellow rays from its cloud-like centre.

A bumper crop of sightings emerged in August and September 1988,
with UFOs spotted over Marsden Grotto, Sunderland and County
Durham.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                         Unidentified Flying Planet?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:25:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:25:40 -0400
Subject: Unidentified Flying Planet?




Source: Cadillac News - Cadillac Michigan

http://www.cadillacnews.com/articles/2004/05/06/news/news05.txt

07-05-02

Unidentified Flying Planet?

By Matt Whetstone, Staff Writer

CADILLAC - Donna Billett of Harrietta saw the backyard and field
behind her house light up like she had never before -
 considering it was nearly midnight and it was pitch black
outside.

"I was so shocked when I saw it out the bathroom window I just
stood there in awe for five minutes," Billett said when the
object appeared Sunday.

The moon was not responsible for the unexplained light, even
though it shone brightly in the clear sky. Instead, Billett saw
another bright object in the northwest sky.

Billett's son Allan McIlvain quickly came out of the house and
recorded the object for about 30 minutes before it finally left
their sight. He said it moved at a very fast pace.

The object bounced and weaved as McIlvain attempted to film it,
zooming in and out. Neither had an explanation at the time.

"I thought it was lightning at first," Billett said. "It was
like flipping on a light switch - the whole sky was bright."

McIlvain said he has a different explanation.

"I think it was a spaceship," he said.

Both believed the object to be pulsing, reflecting light toward
the ground.

David Batch, professor at the Abrams Planetarium at Michigan
State University, said the object may have been the planet
Venus.

"Venus is probably the most mistaken object for a UFO," Batch
said. "It really attracts people's attention right now because
it is so bright."

Batch said there is an old story that former president Jimmy
Carter once reported Venus as a UFO in his younger days.

Like the object seen in Harrietta, Batch said Venus is capable
of changing shapes and colors during the night and is capable of
leaving the sight of viewers depending on weather conditions.

In a camera, Batch said it would tend to be overexposed making
it appear to look different.

Batch did rule out the possibility of a comet sightings because
it would be nearly impossible to get video footage as it would
be too faint.


[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com & Richard Hendricks
 for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 19:19:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 23:06:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Photo Strobing Night Object - Scheldroup


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:26:14 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Photo Strobing Night Object

>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 22:08:11 -0700
>>Subject: Photo Strobing Night Object

>>Strobing Night Sky Object - Photo

><snip>

>>http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php

><snip>

>>Portland, Oregon
>>Date: Last week in April, 2004
>>Time: Between 9:00 and 11:00 p.m.

><snip>

>>The last week in April skies were fair and clear around these
>>parts, in Portland, OR. On several nights between 9 and 11 pm I
>>saw some apparent star-like objects on the east or west horizon
>>which seemed to strobe in multiple colors. I could remember
>>seeing red and blue strobing lights with white either
>>accompanying or alternating with the red and blue.

>If the night skies are clear and someone sees the same star-like
>objects on the horizon several nights in row, then what they are
>are seeing is just that - stars! The rapid strobing effect and
>the colours are simply the result of starlight refracting
>through the thicker unsteady and not very uniform atmosphere at
>lower elevations. These stars observed under high magnification
>are especially pretty as they rapidly change their size, shape,
>brightness and colours!

Hi Nick,

Good points with the atmosphere. Color/Colour may also arrive in
other forms if energy that result from their loss and exchange
by photon emission generated by an synchrotron accelerator.

I typed up a short story about this effect at John Greenewald's.

http://www.bvalphaserver.com/postp270807.html&highlight=&sid=709c30cce8692486bd6
25de6378982e3#270807


John Photon










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 7

                     Re: New On-Line UFO Magazine - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 01:19:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 23:09:27 -0400
Subject: Re: New On-Line UFO Magazine - Hale


>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:57:22 +0100 (BST)
>Subject: New On-Line UFO Magazine

>The first edition of UFO Review, a new and free on-line magazine
>can be found at:

>http://www.uforeview.net

>This is unconnected with UFO Monthly.


Hi,

I got nothing when I clicked on the link?


Roy








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 8

                   Dayton Daily News On Centerville Story

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 01:33:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 06:05:28 -0400
Subject: Dayton Daily News On Centerville Story


Source: Dayton Daily News

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0508ufo.html

05-08-04


Centerville couple convinced UFO appeared in sky
DP&L, neighbor say transformer exploded

By Katherine Ullmer

CENTERVILLE -- A full moon shone over Centerville when a young
mother nursing her 3-week-old baby at 5:30 a.m. saw the
electricity go off and on, the tops of trees glow, and bright
lights arcing outside.

Numerous 911 calls streamed into the Centerville Police
Department from Lakeview Drive residents near Stingley
Elementary School about explosions and electrical disruptions.

The couple, who asked that only their first names be used, said
they saw an alien spacecraft hovering in the sky.

The March 8 event has an area UFO researcher claiming a cover-up
by city officials who have shown disinterest in investigating.

"My wife first saw it. It was right outside our window," Mark
told a police dispatcher in his 911 call.

"It was like an alien ship and it blew up," he said. "It was
like a bomb going off. It was going to the power lines. I don't
believe I'm saying this. It hovered down over the school and it
was streaming lights and flashing. It came down all the way over
the  school towards my house and then it would just go 'Boom!'
All the electric would drop."

Mark later described it as a disk-shaped ship "about the size of
a small house. I thought it was a ship attacking in the night,"
he said. The ship appeared and disappeared over the school, and
was gone by the time police arrived, he said.

"It was only about 50 feet away and 15 feet off the ground and
it had lights," wife Deanna said. "My first initial thought was
that they were trying to get the baby."

Mark described the craft as having a "burnt polished aluminum
surface" to Kenny Young, a UFO researcher from the
Kentucky/Cincinnati area who manages a UFO Web site. Young said
he plans to post a story he wrote about the event along with 911
tape he got from Bruce Forrester, a Bellbrook UFO investigator.
He said he's concerned about radioactivity in the area and the
fact city officials have dismissed UFO claims.

Centerville police say they don't have any plans to investigate.

"We are convinced it was a transformer blowing," Centerville
police Sgt. Scott Owsley said.

Dayton Power and Light Co. spokesman Ted Tathan said DP&L had
"one brief outage in the morning that affected 200 customers. A
tree limb got on the lines at Main and Normandy streets north of
Franklin Street and a circuit breaker in a substation (260
Zengel Drive) opened up" to protect the system, he said.

Regis Higgins, 91, who lives across from Mark and Deanna, heard
three loud explosions. He said he understands how they might
think it was "something else. They're not imagining, but it was
a mistake on their part," he said. "I don't think we had any
UFO. It really was an illusion."

Centerville Assistant City Manager Judy Gilleland and Washington
Twp. fire Chief Ken Parks said high winds made electrical wires
arc and spark on Lakeview and North Johanna drives. "It's a very
frequent occurrence," Parks said.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 8

             Investigator Response To Dayton Daily News Article

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 06:14:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 06:14:44 -0400
Subject: Investigator Response To Dayton Daily News Article





From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 03:22:28 -0400
To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS.nul
Subject: Investigator Response To Dayton Daily News Article

I would like to briefly comment on the Dayton Daily News article
concerning the Centerville UFO Incident. In addition to some
basic factual errors (date of event was actually March 6, not
March 8 as report indicated) and spelling issues (Kenny Young,
not Kerry Young and Bruce Forrester, not Forester), I think it
is important to stress that I am not 'claiming a cover-up' by
city officials, as the article indicates. What I have stressed
is the lack of interest in precautionary safety measures after
the episode.

The primary witness, quoted in the article, strongly feels there
was a structured aircraft of unknown origin near his home and
that object hovering over Stingley elementary school. That
others were not observant of this object during this period of
regional power disruptions and aerial 'flashing' does not
necessarily discount his testimony.

It is no skin off my nose if this witness is totally wrong and
this case is a massive misperception caused by tree limbs and
arcing power lines.

The facts are concerns have been expressed regarding an unknown
and unconventional aircraft over a school and residential
neighborhood and the primary claimant alleges illness in the
days after the episode. City officials responsible for public
safety have disregarded his concern.

In my contact with city officials, during preparation for my
report, I have personally inquired if city officials would be
interested in undertaking basic radiation readings (many fire
stations have this gear and it is not usually a major
inconvenience) and they would not, discounting the sighting
claim and opting not to take concern. That is their decision and
it is based upon their experience and education. I do not claim
cover-up, only pointing out the decision by safety coordinators
to not take radiation readings in light of the reported claim by
the Lakeview Drive resident and his wife.

Most interesting is that the Dayton Daily News article did not
mention my interest in speaking with the emergency responders to
the March 6th incident (the Lakeview Drive witness claims the
responders also saw the UFO and that the firemen had complained
the gauges on their fire truck "went funny"), and my attempt to
chat with these responders was shut down by reference to court
action from Fire Chief Kenneth Parks.

My report on this incident is available at:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo

and I stand behind that report.

Thanks for your interest.


Kenny Young
Cincinnati UFO Hotline - 513-588-4548








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 8

                      Did You Witness 1949 Norwood UFO?

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 03:55:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 06:34:58 -0400
Subject: Did You Witness 1949 Norwood UFO?


Source: Cincinnati Enquirer

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/05/08/loc_kyufo080.html

05-08-04


Did you witness Norwood UFO?
Florence resident seeks people who saw object in '49

By William Croyle
Enquirer Contributor

FLORENCE - Kenny Young is searching for people who may have seen
a UFO in Norwood many moons ago.

Young, a Florence resident, says he's trying to find proof of 10
UFO sightings in Norwood from August 1949 to March 1950. "If
we're going to get critical information on it, we'll have to get
it fast because it's such an old story," said Young.

Young is studying reports of an unidentified flying object that
he says was first seen and logged by searchlight operator Donald
Berger Aug. 19, 1949. Berger, now dead, was operating the light
for the festival at SS. Peter and Paul Church (now Holy Trinity
Church) at Drex Avenue and Montgomery Road that evening.

The object, according to newspaper accounts, was also observed
by the late Dr. Paul Herget, then director of the Cincinnati
Observatory. Historian John Ventre is tracing the history of the
observatory and said information on what Herget saw will be
included in that research.

After Berger's UFO sighting, clergy members, scientists,
astronomers and military personnel went to the church in the
next seven months and saw the object, Young said he has learned
through news accounts and interviews.

Art Veser, 77, lived next door to Berger. Veser went with Berger
to the church in October that year to see it for himself.

"He turned on the searchlight and there was something up there,
but I wasn't too impressed," said Veser. "It could have been a
cloud."

Berger told Veser there had been flashes of light shooting from
the object on past nights, but it didn't happen while Veser was
there.

Photos of the object can be seen at:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/norwoodphotos

If you have
information, contact Young at:

513-588-4548
or
ufo.nul







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 8

                        UFOs Set To Swarm McMinnville

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 06:42:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 06:42:28 -0400
Subject: UFOs Set To Swarm McMinnville





Source: The Gazette-Times -  Corvallis Oregon

http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2004/05/08/entertainment/entertainment_=
roundup/brief09.txt

07-05-04


UFOs Set To Swarm McMinnville
By The Entertainer

McMINNVILLE =97 Alien abduction expert Budd Hopkins delivers the
keynote address at McMinnvile's fifth annual UFO Festival, a
two-day event that features speakers, an alien costume parade
through downtown McMinnville, an exhibit hall of UFO-related
merchandise, an alien abduction workshop, also led by Hopkins,
and a live radio theater-style performance of two "Flash Gordon"
episodes by Portland's Willamette Radio Works.

Hopkins, head of the Intruders Foundation

www.intrudersfoundation.org

has investigated more than 700 cases of alien abduction,
interviewing more than 1,000 people who have reported abduction
experiences. He will deliver his keynote remarks at a speaker's
forum from 7 to 9 p.m. at the Mack Theater. He will be joined by
Eric Byler of Oregon UFO Review. Admission is $7. A reception
and book signing follows from 9 to 11 p.m. at McMenamins Hotel.

Saturday's events include a UFO exhibit hall from 10 a.m. to 5
p.m.; Hopkin's alien abduction workshop from 10:30 a.m. to 12:30
p.m. at the Mack Theater; the UFO parade at 1 p.m.; and the
Flash Gordon Radio Theater performances at 2:30 p.m. at the Mack
Theater.

For more information, see www.mcmenamins.com.arts.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 8

                     Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt?

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 12:44:57 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 08:53:42 -0400
Subject: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt?


Hello List Members,

I am looking for a UFO researcher living in Egypt who can
provide press, scientific or official information on a curious
UFO event that occurred in Egypt on October 5, 1954, which has
been poorly documented to date.

According to Harold T. Wilkins, Flying Saucers Uncensored (The
Citadel Press, 1955), pages 231-232:


"October 5, 1954: For twenty minutes, in the skies over Mehalla-
el-Kobra, Egypt, a thing like a spindle was seen by hundreds of
people. At Behnay, cylinders in the sky emitted a thick smoke.
One exploded, and hurled to the ground a fellah (peasant), and
killed two cows on whose hides showed burns. Lieut. Tewrick took
a photo of a rotating saucer that emitted smoke above East
Kantara (Suez Canal) (actually, El Qantara). He sent the photo
to Egyptian Army Public Relations, and to Helouan Observatory.
Admiral Youssef Hammad, director of Ports and Lighthouses,
alerted airpilots and astronomers to keep a watch on a saucer
seen over Cairo".


Press information of the epoch should be collected and
translated. Contact with both the Egyptian Army and the
mentioned observatory is desirable to find out about the events
and the fate of the photograph taken. Can Mr Tewrik be contacted
today?

Any Egyptian citizen or any resident in that country who could
perform any of those actions would be rendering an informative
service to the UFO community, in order to better document the
world-wide scope of the 1954 UFO wave.


Thank you very much and best regards,

Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos

Research Director
Anomaly Foundation
Spain

http://www.anomalia.org








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 8

                Re: Did You Witness 1949 Norwood UFO? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 06:08:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 09:35:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Did You Witness 1949 Norwood UFO? - Hatch


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 03:55:56 -0400
>Subject: Did You Witness 1949 Norwood UFO?

>Source: Cincinnati Enquirer

>http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/05/08/loc_kyufo080.html

>05-08-04

>Did you witness Norwood UFO?
>Florence resident seeks people who saw object in '49

>By William Croyle; Enquirer Contributor

>FLORENCE - Kenny Young is searching for people who may have
>een a UFO in Norwood many moons ago.

>Young, a Florence resident, says he's trying to find proof of
>10 UFO sightings in Norwood from August 1949 to March 1950. "If
>we're going to get critical information on it, we'll have to get
>it fast because it's such an old story," said Young.

<snip>

>After Berger's UFO sighting, clergy members, scientists,
astronomers and military personnel went to the church in the
next seven months and saw the object, Young said he has learned
through news accounts and interviews.

<snip>

>"He turned on the searchlight and there was something up there,
>ut I wasn't too impressed," said Veser. "It could have been a
>loud."

<snip>

>Photos of the object can be seen at:

>http://home.fuse.net/ufo/norwoodphotos

>If you have information, contact Young at:

>513-588-4548 or ufo.nul


Hello Kenny:

I don't know if this will help much, but I have 3 or 4 listings
for that series of events:

#1441: 1949/08/19 20:00h d=180m 84:28W 39:10N NAM USA OHI
NORWOOD,OH:100s/OBS:SEARCHLITE HITS RND OBJ/4mi ALT:
GLOWS:same to 10MAR50 /r176 STRINGFIELD,Leonard: SITUATION RED
Page No. 201

#1466: 1949/10/23 21:20h d=96m 84:28W 39:09N NAM USA OHI
NORWOOD,OH:MANY+PRESS:SCR W/SEARCHLITE:DLTS EXIT:
OBJS BACK 24OCT+20DEC+11JAN50
/r133 GROSS,L.:UFOs a HISTORY-1949 4 books Book # 2 Page 53

#1537: 1950/03/10 19:00h d=10m 84:27W 39:10N NAM USA OHI
NORWOOD,OH:12+OBS:HUGE OBJ IN SEARCHLITE AGAIN:RISES TO AVOID BEAM?:
MANY SUCH /r134 GROSS,L.:UFOs a HISTORY-1950 6 books Book # 1
Pg 36

#5165: 1956/09/03 ??:??h d=1m 84:28W 39:10N NAM USA OHI
NORWOOD,OH:3 OBS:CLRD SPOT HVR/SKY:2 MORE JOIN:>/FORMn:
BEAM FLASHES BETWEEN 2 of them. /r140 GROSS,L.:UFOs a
HISTORY-1956/6+books Book # 4 Page 3 RESIDENT'L

I include the last one from 1956 in case is has any possible
relevance at all. Norwood (for everyone else) is somewhat to the
NE of Cincinnati, both close to the Ohio River which borders
Kentucky. Amazing the little things one learns by playing with
maps. As a child, I used to listen to the radio show "Big John
and Sparky" out of Cincinnati. "Sparky" kinda reminds me of the
Centerville incident with the shorting power lines.

Note that most of the info above comes from the long, hard and
totally unpaid work of Loren Gross. I have recommended Gross
to Royce Myers as the most productive, unselfish, indefatigueable
(sp?) and least sung hero in recent UFO history.

Let's all hope that Royce puts Loren at or near the top of the
list, or at least well ahead of (deleted) who singlehandedly
figured out that Billy Meier is a phony, to the amazement of
all.


Best wishes

- Larry











   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 9

               Paradigm Research Group Press Release 05-09-04

From: Stephen Bassett <BassettSG.nul>
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 16:34:29 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 09:30:50 -0400
Subject: Paradigm Research Group Press Release 05-09-04


PRG
Paradigm Research Group

Washington, DC -- Stephen Bassett, Executive Director of
Paradigm Research Group, is in contention to be one of 12
contestants on the Showtime Channel's groundbreaking new reality
series, American Candidate. Scheduled for August through October
2004, American Candidate may well be a harbinger of a new kind
of populist power - internet voting - the Holy Grail for voter
participation. While internet voting faces formidable
technological challenges to reach a level of unbreachable
security and integrity, no one doubts it could lead to
unprecedented levels of voter participation in state and federal
elections.

It is expected that a range of issues which the real
presidential candidates would not dare touch will be addressed
by the "real" candidates. Perhaps millions of Americans will
tune in to hear the kinds of debates they will almost certainly
be denied in the real election.

Showtime is not fooling around with this new program. A
substantial and growing website has been created. Members of the
Advisory Board include: Former U.S. Senators, Bob Kerrey and
Alan Simpson; President of the League of Woman Voters, Kay
Maxwell; Former Press Secretary to President Gerald R. Ford, Ron
Nessen; along with other scholars and advocates. Strategic
partners include Meetup and Rock the Vote.

The 12 contestants will conduct "reality" campaigns for
President, with a candidate eliminated with each program
segment. The final two contestants will vie to be the American
Candidate. The winner will have the option to run a write-in
candidacy during the final weeks of the 2004 presidential
election campaign.

Stephen Bassett will attend an American Candidate meetup at the
Cosi Restaurant, 1919 M Street, Washington, DC at 7 pm, Monday,
May 17. He will chat with other candidates and attendees and
will be available to take questions from the press.

Bassett's Background

He is a political activist, founder of Paradigm Research Group,
Executive Director of the Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political
Action Committee (X-PPAC, pronounced expack), author of the
Paradigm Clock website, and a political columnist, commentator
and former Independent candidate for Congress. He is the
executive producer of the X-Conference.

Presently he is the only registered lobbyist in the United
States representing extraterrestrial related phenomena
research/activist organizations, and X-PPAC is the first
political action committee to target the political implications
of extraterrestrial related phenomena. Between April 19 and
November 5 of 2002 he conducted an independent candidacy in the
2002 congressional campaign in the 8th District of Maryland. It
was the first instance in which a candidate on the November
ballot in a federal election openly addressed the matter of an
extraterrestrial presence and the government imposed truth
embargo.

On January 13 of 2003 he launched a new project, Citizen
Hearing, which intends to conduct a week-long hearing in
Washington, DC before former Members of the House and Senate.
 The motto for this project is, "If Congress will not do its
job, the people will."

Since 1996 Bassett has assisted a number of organizations and
initiatives, which have been making the case for 1) an end to
the government embargo on the truth surrounding an
extraterrestrial presence and 2) open congressional hearings to
take the testimony of former military and agency employees
witness to extraterrestrial related events and evidence. He has
spoken to millions of Americans about the likelihood and
implications of a formal disclosure event.

Relevant Links:

Showtime: www.sho.com/site/homepage/index.do
American Candidate: www.americancandidate.com
Bassett AC Page: www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1
Rock the Vote: www.rockthevote.com
Meetup: www.meetup.com
X-Conference: www.x-conference.com
Paradigm Research Group: www.paradigmclock.com
X-PPAC: www.x-ppac.org

________________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 9

                    Two Short HBCC UFO Reports - 05-08-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 13:58:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 09:34:24 -0400
Subject: Two Short HBCC UFO Reports - 05-08-04


Hi List

I also picked up a short report from Manitoba today. I have
written back to see if I might be able to receive anymore
information on it.

Something interesting is also taking place here in Houston,
B.C., hopefully soon I will be able to tell more on this. But
for now I had a nice meeting with out new Mayor. The short
version is I am writing a letter and taking it to our Mayor, she
is taking the letter to the next Council meeting and something
good should come out of it. In other words the town is going to
stand up and support my work in the UFO field, plus more.


Take care

Brian

-----

Christina Lake, BC

Date:  May 3, 2004
Time:  Approx: 1:20 p.m.

As a couple left their home at Christina Lake the husband
spotted two large, bright shaped in the southwestern sky. The
two objects appeared to be suspended in the sky, or sitting
stationary for approximately 1 minute. Then two object
eventually started to move as a jet airliner approached their
position. One of the object flew slowly towards the south and
the other shot off at a high rate of speed towards the
northeast.

The witnesses said they were a shinny metal in color, no
contrail was observed as they traveled from the area. They also
pointed out that there was another fellow who was seen looking
up in the direction where the objects were.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

-----

Greenwood, B.C.

Date:  May 6, 2004
Time:  Approx: 8:55 p.m.

A lady was traveling along highway #3 heading east when she
observed a jet black triangular shaped craft which was flying
from the east to the west. It was getting toward dark but the
object was still easily seen in the sky due to it's dark color
which really stood out. She reports that there were no lights on
it, or any other type of illumination. It traveled on a straight
path and also pointed out that she was not able to see any
detail on the object even though it seemed to be not that high
in altitude. Not a sound was noticed, maybe this was due to her
being in her car. The witness told me that she has seen the
Stealth aircraft on TV and at an air show in the United States,
but she said it wasn't one of these.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 9

                          On-Line E-Mail FOIA Tool

From: John Greenewald, Jr. <tbvfuture.nul>
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 19:49:18 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 09:43:07 -0400
Subject: On-Line E-Mail FOIA Tool


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

The New FOIA Tool That Will Transform Research In The 21st
Century

NORTHRIDGE (BlackVault) -- May 7, 2004 -- Since the enactment of
the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) in 1966, researchers have
bombarded the U.S. Government with requests for information. The
subject matter varied, but the goal was the same -- the truth!

The Black Vault has recently completed a section that allows
every day researchers and curious minds to use this tool and
access FOIA records. "The process of the FOIA is simple..." says
this new section, "yet it takes years to master the games, the
tricks and the way different agencies handle different
requests."

The Black Vault has put together a list of every government
agency which accepts FOIA requests, but more importantly has
programmed an online form to submit your requests electronically
-- all in one place.

Not every agency accepts FOIA requests through e-mail, but The
Black Vault has scrounged the internet for each one that does.
The result was a tool which has never been created before, and
allows everyone with the click of a button to use the FOIA.

The Black Vault has also offered it=92s FOIA request template for
you to use as a guide, offers new message forums for asking
questions and posting your research, and offers extensive
documentation to study this Act. At the end of this release, The
Black Vault has also offered a complete FOIA request which is
for the four page document which got John Greenewald started
with his research.

All you have to do is copy and paste this letter into the online
form (links below) and put your own mailing address. Send it to
the Defense Intelligence Agency, and you will get a copy of this
document which was the first document The Black Vault ever
received! It is 100% free of charge, and will show you how easy
the FOIA process is, and will get you started on your way to
uncovering something no one else has!

The possibilities are endless with the use of this tool. It is
made available by The Black Vault and is the result of the
continued drive to educate the public.

Direct Links --


The FOIA Page on The Black Vault:

http://www.bvalphaserver.com/article10048html

The Black Vault's E-FOIA Request Submission Tool:

http://www.bvalphaservercom/modules.php?name=3DContact

The Message Forums on the FOIA:

http://www.bvalphaserver.com/forum-cat6.html

---

Complete FOIA Request Sample


From:

Your Name
Address
City, State, Zip


To:

Defense Intelligence Agency
Robert P. Richardson
Chief, FOIA Staff, DAN-1A
Washington, D.C. 20340-5100


Dear Sir,

This is a non-commercial request, under the provisions of the
Freedom of Information Act 5 U.S.C. =A7 552..

Sir, I respectfully request a copy of all documents pertaining
to a UFO sighting over Tehran, Iran in 1976. This is a four-page
document outlining the sighting, however, please also consider
this a request for all other documents which relate to my
request.

This request should have no charges as it will not exceed the
100 pages made available to me under the FOIA.

Thank you very much for your time, and I look forward to your
response.

Sincerely,

Your Name



----------

John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Headquarters
18127 Parthenia St. #105
Northridge, Ca. 91325

Interview Requests can be submitted to john.nul and
is available at any time.


Sincerely,

John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Headquarters
http://www.blackvault.com









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 9

                           'Otherfolk' Encounters

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 23:37:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 10:44:40 -0400
Subject: 'Otherfolk' Encounters


From: T. Peter Park <tpeterpark.nul>
To: forteana.nul
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 00:58:31 -0700
Subj: Little Men, "Frogmen", and "Mini-Men": Some "Otherfolk"
      Encounters


Dear Friends, Listmates and Fellow Forteans,

From time to time, we have bizarre modern reports by seemingly
reliable witnesses of curious humanoid creatures that seem to
fall outside both the usual categories of UFO-related "aliens"
and the various hairy bipedal "man-apes" or "mystery primates"
resembling prehistoric hominids and popularly lumped together as
"Bigfoot" or "Yeti". Books on UFOs and Close Encounters often
describe entities resembling the traditional fairies and "little
people" of folklore, or reptilian or frog-like "cryptids", that
are assumed to be "aliens" even though no mysterious craft is
actually reported nearby by the witness(es).

A number of these truly anomalous humanoid sightings of bizarre
"little people" were summarized by British anomalist researchers
Janet and Colin Bord in their Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th
Century (Chicago: Contemporary Books, 1989) Others were cited by
French-American UFO'logist Jacques Vallee in Passport to
Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers (Chicago: Henry Regnery
Company, 1969). We may begin with the Bords' account
(Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th Century, pp. 146-147) of an
unusual encounter which took place in Farmersville, Texas in May
1913. It was not revealed to the world, however, until 1978, by
which time the witness was a grandfather. He stuck to his story
through intensive questioning, remembering the time he was
twelve years old, chopping cotton with his two brothers on the
family farm near Farmersville. They heard the dogs howling and,
when they went to investigate, found a little man only 18 inches
tall.

[He didn't seem to have on any shoes but I don't really remember
his feet. His arms were hanging down just beside him. He had on
a kind of hat that reminded me of a Mexican hat. It was a little
round hat that looked like it was built onto him. He didn't have
on any clothes. Everything looked like a rubber suit including
the hat.]

The dogs jumped on him and tore him to pieces, and he seemed to
have human internal organs. Next day when the boys visited the
spot where the bloody remains had lain, there was no trace of
them.[Alex Evans (pseud. Of Jerome Clark), "Encounters with
Little Men", FATE, November 1978, pp. 83-85, quoted in Bord and
Bord Unexplained Mysteries, pp. 146-147).]

13-year-old Harry Anderson saw twenty bald-headed little men
near Barron, Wisconsin, one summer night in 1919. Harry was
riding in a car with others in the Wisconsin countryside when
the car ran out of oil. Harry walked to a farm to fetch some,
and as he was walking back he saw twenty little men walking
along towards him in single file. They had bald heads and white
skins, and wore leather "knee-pants" held up by braces over
their shoulders. They paid no attention to the terrified boy,
who ducked out of sight behind a tree, but muttered to
themselves and sang a little song:

"We won't stop fighting
Till the end of the war
In Nineteen-Hundred
and Ninety-Four".

The terrified Anderson, "heart pumping", continued on his way
back to the car once the marching dwarfs had passed by, not once
looking back behind him. [Alex Evans (pseud. of Jerome Clark),
"Encounters with Little Men", FATE, Vol. 31, No. 11, November
1978, p. 85, cited in: Bord and Bord, Unexplained Mysteries, p.
147; Jerome Clark, ed., The UFO Encyclopedia, Vol. 2, The
Emergence of a Phenomenon, from the Beginning through 1959
(Detroit: Omnigraphics, Inc., 1992), p. 89; Joseph Trainor, ed.,
UFO Roundup, Vol. 4, No. 20, September 8, 1999; "W-File: ce
1919.html", The W-Files: Posting the Paranormal Since August
1997:

http://www.ufowisconsin.com/files/ce 1918.html

Godelieve van Overmeire, rd., Chronologie OVNI: Periode 1900 a
Fin 1919:

http://users.skynet.be/sky84985/chron6.html

A glistening little 20-inch ET-like entity surprised an
Australian family when it unexpectedly appeared in their house
one night in 1930, at Mandurah in Western Australia. Beryl
Hickey, who was a teenager at the time, remembered the event
clearly.

[It was the most frightening thing I had ever seen. My father,
who was religious, was terrified. He thought it was the work of
the Devil and threw a prawning net over it to drag it outside.
It had big ears, a wide slit mouth and glistened as though I was
wet or covered in oil. It stood about half a metre [ca. 20
inches", TPP] tall, with bulging eyes covered with a film.

It was obviously not human, yet it had perfectly formed little
hands and feet and was pink like a baby. It made a frightened
squeaky noise when it was caught under the net. Our father told
us never to speak about it or tell anyone. But I told a friend
and she reminded me about it after reading about the film].

Beryl Hickey did not speak of her experience for many years, for
fear of ridicule. It was only the release of the film ET which
prompted her to speak about what she had seen: "I hadn't thought
about it for ages until I saw the film and I just wanted to let
people know there really might be funny things around". [West
Mail (Perth, Australia), 25 December 1982, reprinted in UFO
Newsclipping Service, February 1983, No. 163, p. 12, quoted in
Bord and Bord, Unexplained Mysteries, p. 147; "A Century of
UFO", UFO Roundup, Dec. 1999, ed. Joseph Trainor, cited on pp.
13-14 of 38 pp., in Godelieve Van Overmeire", Chronologie OVNI":

http://users.skynet.be/sky84985/chron7.html

The Mandurah creature resembles grotesque small humanoids seen
at Juminda, Estonia in 1938/1939, and in woods near Derry, New
Hampshire in 1956 - in both cases, again with no mention of a
UFO. In the Fall of 1938 (or perhaps 1939), according to a
personal communication to Jacques Vallee, two persons saw a
strange "frog-man" 1 meter (about 40 inches) tall at Juminda on
the Estonian coast. The "frog-man" had a round head, no neck,
and a hump in front of the body. Its mouth was a large, straight
slit, the eyes were like smaller slits, while its hands were
normal. The creature's skin was brownish-green, compared by the
witnesses to synthetic leather.. It walked in a peculiar "but
elegant" fashion, its head waving up and down while its legs
moved "carefully". When pursued, the creature accelerated very
fast, with feet "fluttering". About 100 meters (325 feet) away
from the witnesses, it vanished completely. (Jacques Vallee,
Passport to Magonia, Appendix, Case 49, pp. 189-190.) Vallee
listed the Juminda "frog-man" his chronology of UFO landings in
Passport to Magonia, although no UFO was actually mentioned.

A bizarre green dwarf was seen near Derry, New Hampshire, in
December 1956. This "dwarf", only 2 feet tall, was seen by the
Bords as very different from the traditional Little People of
Britain and Ireland, who are much more human in appearance, and
presumably have no relationship (in the Bords' view) to the
dwarf of this and other accounts. It may have been related,
however, to Beryl Hickey's 1930 Australian "ET" and the Juminda
"frog-man". Derry resident Alfred Horne encountered the green
dwarf in the woods near Derry on December 15, 1956, while
looking for a suitable Christmas tree to cut down and bring back
home, he wrote UFO'logist Walter Webb in 1962. Standing in the
woods before him, Horne saw a humanoid two feet tall, green all
over and naked, with a wrinkled skin resembling elephant hide, a
high domed head, ears like a bloodhound's, eyes with a film like
a snake's, merely two holes for a nose, short arms and legs,
hands like stumps, and feet with no toes. Horne watched it for
20 minutes, then tried to catch it. The creature screeched
horribly when Horne approached it, however, making the terrified
witness flee lest the dwarf harm him in self-defense. Bord and
Bord, Unexplained Mysteries, pp. 151-152, citing Intcat 661
Intcat MUFOB New Series 9 (Winter 1977-78), p. 7; Walter N. Webb
case investigations, report dated November 4, 1964, cited in
"Encounters with Aliens on this Day... UFOCAT.com, On This
Day, December 15

http://www.ufocat.com/om this day/December15.html

"Strange Tales 5. Which Story Is False?
Page 1, Story 1: The New Hampshire Dwarf", About Paranormal
Phenomena with Stephen Wagner:

http://paranormal.about.com/cs/trueghoststories/a/aa080403.htm

Alfred Horne, letters to Walter Webb September 20, 1962, and
November 4, 1962, INTCAT #661 & Jerome Clark, Unexplained
Phenomena 2001 Calendar, (Accord Publishing Ltd"., Friday,
December 4, 2001), cited in Martin S. Kottmayer, "Little Green
Men", The Anomalist, No. 10, 2002, p. 218.]

"Little People", the Bords note (Unexplained Mysteries, p. 155)
usually refers to entities 4 feet or less in height. However,
there also are occasional reports of bizarrely tiny humanoids, 8
to 18 inches tall. One was the 18-inch-tall 1913 Farmersville
"little man" already described. Other very tiny entities were
seen in Canby, Oregon (1950), Ibague, Colombia (1973), and Dunn,
North Carolina (1976).

The Canby entity was first publicized by the man whose own
sighting launched our modern "age of flying saucers", though no
"saucers" were seen at Canby. Kenneth Arnold, the pilot who saw
the original "flying saucers" near Mount Rainier in June 1947,
began investigating "flying saucers" and other Fortean mysteries
in his spare time. In April 1950, Arnold interviewed a Canby,
Oregon woman about her "little man" sighting, repeating her
story in a lecture on "How It All Began". Ellen Jonerson, "a
University of Oregon graduate and a very intelligent person",
saw a dark-skinned, 9- to 12-inch-tall "little man" wearing "a
little romper and a sort of plaid shirt" walking with a
"waddling" motion across her breezeway, pass under the running
board of a car, and disappear. [Kenneth Arnold, "How It All
Began", in Curtis Fuller, ed., Proceedings of the First
International UFO Congress (New York: Warner Books, 1980), p.
26, quoted in Michael D. Winkle, "Monsters You Never Heard Of!
Mini-Man" <http://www.geocities.com/laxaria.miniman.html>;
"Strange and Unexplained!, Fairies":

http://www.skygazw.com/content/strange/Fairies.shtml]

Four tiny beings 8 inches tall were seen on August 10, 1973 by
four boys outside the town of Ibague in Colombia. The boys were
searching for botanical specimens in a muddy riverbed, when they
saw four small beings standing under a little stone footbridge
and apparently looking for something in the mud. They were
dressed in white, and had tiny grey caps on their heads. As the
boys walked towards them, they disappeared "as though by magic".
The boys searched the place and found tiny footprints. [Gordon
Creighton, "Tiny Entities Reported in Colombia", Flying Saucer
Review, Vol. 21, No. 5, p. 33, cited by Bord and Bord,
Unexplained Mysteries, pp. 155, 322]

The best-known modern "mini-man", however, was probably the
"Coke bottle man" seen near Dunn, North Carolina in October 1976
by an 8-year-old boy and a 20-year-old woman. Little Tonnlie
Barefoot was playing in a field of dried cornstalks near his
home on October 12, when he saw a little man "not much bigger
than a Coke bottle, wearing a black "German-type hat", a pretty
white tie, a blue top and trousers, and black boots. He began to
reach for something in his back pocket, froze, squeaked like a
mouse, and ran off through the cornstalks, leaving behind
footprints 2 1/4 long by 1 inch wide with bootmarks. Shirley Ann
McCrimmon, coming home from a party just before daybreak on
October 25, saw a little man with light-brown skin, wearing
boots and a thin garment. He shone a tiny bright yellow light in
her eyes, and ran away when she screamed. Dogs also barked at
him. Footprints were again found, in hard ground, but none in
the soft ground where he had stood, and in the cornfield the
footprints ended abruptly. Interestingly enough, the Cherokee
had of the western Carolinas had legends of a race of little
people called the Tsundige'wi, "with very queer shaped bodies,
hardly tall enough to reach up to a man's knee".[1] <# ftn1>[
Bord and Bord, Unexplained Mysteries, pp. 155-157, citing Fred
H. Bost, "A Few Small Steps on the Earth & A Tiny Leap for
Mankind", Pursuit, Vol. 10, No. 2, pp. 50-53. On the
Tsundige'wi, see James Mooney, Myths of the Cherokee (Nashville,
TN: Charles and Randy Elder, 1982 [originally published in the
19th Annual Report of the Bureau of American Ethnology, 1900],
p. 325, cited in Michael D. Winkle, "Haunted North Carolina: Up
These Heights and Down These Hollows":

http://www.prairiehists.com/hollows.html

which also quotes the Bords' account of the Dunn sightings,
suggesting that the "Coke bottle man" may have been a modern
manifestation of the Tsundige'wi. Winkle likewise cites the Dunn
sightings in "Monsters You Never Heard Of! Mini-Man" as a close
analogue to Ellen Jonerson's Canby. Oregon "little man".]

It was again youngsters who saw the 3-foot-tall green humanoid
of Arnold, Pennsylvania, in late February, 1981. Five boys aged
eleven to sixteen were spending their Saturday afternoon in the
railway yard when eleven-year-old Chris saw the little creature
squatting down with its back to him. Determined to catch it, he
crept up on it. He grabbed it and lifted it up, shouting for his
friends to help. It wriggled and twisted and squealed so much
that Chris was forced to drop it, and it ran into a drainpipe.
The boys all described the strange creature as green in color,
naked with no hair or fur, but with wrinkled "elephant" skin
which felt dry and rubbery, like rubber. It was just under 3
feet tall, humanoid in shape, with nipples, large ears, and a
tail one inch long, and it walked upright on two legs. It seems
to rather resemble the 2-foot-tall 1956 Derry, New Hampshire
green dwarf. [Robert A. Goerman, "The Little Green Man Who Got
Away", FATE, May 1982, pp. 61-65, cited in Janet Bord & Colin
Bord, Unexplained Mysteries, pp. 160-161].

-----

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress". Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 9

                           'British UFO Hunters '

From: Chris Parr <Chrissyparr.nul>
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 07:28:59 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 12:46:16 -0400
Subject: 'British UFO Hunters '


A new UFO response been created for Ufologists and Skywatchers
around Britain. "British UFO Hunters" is designed to speed up
the contact between Ufologists and UFO Investigators in an
attempt to capture ongoing UFO activity around the British
Isles.

Participating Ufologists and Ufo groups from Yorkshire, Cumbria,
Lancashire and Cheshire and Humberside have all recently
benefitted from this type of networking and any active UFO
groups or Ufologists are welcome to partake in British UFO
Hunters.

The existance of the British UFO Hunters can also be useful to
people that have a strong interest in UFO studies, yet live in
an area with no UFO group or live in a remote part of Britain.
Two weeks ago, it was crucial to contact a Ufologist from the
Isle of Man area, yet nobody was available and this situation
can only highlight the useful format of a UFO response team.

Please e-mail me at:

chrissyparr.nul

if you require any more information


Regards,

Chris Parr
Cumbria Ufologist








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 9

                Re: The Black Vault Television Series Begins

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 16:52:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 17:50:09 -0400
Subject: Re: The Black Vault Television Series Begins


>From: John Greenewald Jr. <tbvfuture.nul>
>To: <john.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:57:42 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
>Subject: The Black Vault Television Series Begins Filming

>The Black Vault Television Series Begins Filming

>NORTHRIDGE (BlackVault) - April 29, 2004 =E2=80=93 The Black Vault has
>taken another step toward appearing on your television screens!
>After years of developing, planning, pitching and waiting, The
>Black Vault recently completed a week long trip to Washington
>D.C. to film the first round of interviews intended for use in
>the show.

<snip>

>John Greenewald, Jr.
>The Black Vault Headquarters
>http://www.blackvault.com

Well congratulations John!

I was just about to ask who the new blood would be to enter into
the field and I saw your press release.

Last time I chatted with you was about 7 years ago. Talked to
you about comics and licensing.

Good to see The Black Vault still rolling to remarkable results.

We'll be waiting for the premiere so we can send in fan letters.

We need more young folks like yourself taking responsibility to
make things better.


Best,

Greg
Former HOST PSCP Evol from Parascope Magazine






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 10

                  Delusional Parasitosis A Medical Mystery

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:25:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:25:17 -0400
Subject: Delusional Parasitosis A Medical Mystery


Note-I felt this article merited posting in regards to how a
"conventional body," in this case "medicine" reacts to an
"unexplained phenomenon". The correlation's between the
following occurrences, and Ufology/abductions is eerily similar.
FW

-----

Source: RGJ.com

http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/05/08/70309.php

05-10-04

A Medical Mystery: Delusional parasitosis

Patients claim fibers sprout from lesions and parasites crawl
under their skin. Most doctors tell them it's all in their heads

For more than three years Reno resident Theresa Blodgett, 37, has
had a mystery disease that seems like a plot device from the
television show 'The X-Files'.

Blodgett's symptoms include feeling invisible "parasites" biting
her skin. She complains of overwhelming fatigue and body aches.
She suffers from hair loss, skin lesions, rashes, and blue or red
"fibers" that sprout from her lesions. She sees tiny black specks
=97 like coffee grounds =97 on her arms.

More than a dozen doctors have told her the cause of her strange
ailment is in her mind.

But a controversial new theory says many people who are branded
with delusions of parasitosis are suffering from a physical
illness, not a mental disease. Enlarged images of the "parasites"
are posted on several Web sites and a Texas doctor said he has
found biological causes and physical evidence for many of the
symptoms described by Blodgett and others.

Dr. William Harvey of Houston said many of his chronic fatigue
patients, including 17 with "mystery disease" symptoms, have
tested positive for borrelia burgdorferi, the bacteria that also
causes Lyme disease. He suspects the weird symptoms and parasites
are not the cause of the illness, but are opportunistic
infections and organisms taking advantage of the lowered skin
immunity of people whose systems are weakened by the microbe.

Harvey said delusional parasitosis is a real disease, but some of
the patients he's seen aren't hallucinating. Because the symptoms
of the real disease match the description of the psychosomatic
ailment, doctors often misdiagnose the cases, he said.

"This disease isn't alien or magical; it's real and the symptoms
are real," said Harvey, who is board-certified in aerospace
medicine and has worked both as a space-medicine researcher and
in hospital emergency rooms. "After three-and-a-half years, I'm
still trying to understand this as objectively as I can=85

"Without understanding the skin lesions fully, I'm treating
patients with antibiotics and having clinical success. Something
appears to have happened to their skin immunity."

But most dermatologists and other doctors interviewed said they
aren't buying the theory, even though they haven't seen Harvey's
research or the microscope photos of the strange fibers. They
dismiss the mystery disease as a mental condition.

Dr. Peter Lynch, professor emeritus in dermatology at the
University of California, Davis, said the attempt to identify a
physiological reason for delusional parasitosis symptoms is "a
convenient way not to have to deal with a psychological problem."

"In many cases, (delusional parasitosis) is a mono-delusional
problem," Lynch said. "The patients are normal in every other
way. It's always hard to get such patients to believe it's a
psychological problem. Some patients are very convincing, and
I've had psychiatrists call me about referrals I've made and ask
if I'm absolutely sure there's nothing organic going on here."

He said in the 40 years he has been practicing medicine he hasn't
seen a delusional parasitosis patient with physical symptoms that
can't be explained. He said while it's possible some cases may be
wrongly diagnosed, it's unlikely a large segment of patients is
suffering from a physical illness.

"You can miss a case and of course that happens," Lynch said.
"But are many being missed? In a word, no."

Same symptoms seen

This is the story of a disease allegedly misdiagnosed for
generations. This is a story about doctors who know their
patients' suffering is real, but insist in the majority of cases
that the problem is in their minds. This is the story of some
"hallucinations" that can be seen under a microscope, and of a
fear that keeps patients miserable, isolated and on the brink of
despair.

Whether myth or fact, no one denies patients are in great pain.

Blodgett said it's as though her body has turned against her.

She gathers up the black specks, the mysterious fibers and the
small, fuzzy "cocoons" she finds on her skin and around her home.
She tapes the macabre samples to typing paper, but she said no
doctor will analyze the collection. Physicians who glance at the
specimens dismiss the lot as stray hairs, clothing fibers, scabs
and other common household debris, she said.

"It's a nightmare," Blodgett said. "Every day I awaken to a
nightmare and no one will believe me."

Doctors have diagnosed her with delusions of parasitosis. Medical
journals define DOP as a patient's unshakeable and mistaken
belief that he or she is infected with parasites. Some physicians
have prescribed anti-depression medication for Blodgett that she
said makes her sicker and causes muscle spasms.

"I need help," she said. "I'm not crazy. This is happening to me.
I know it's unbelievable but it's happening. It's not in my mind;
it's in my body."

She is not alone.

Thousands of people from Canada to Miami, and from Seattle to
Houston report the same symptoms, according to a national group
formed to help such patients. Scientists have used
state-of-the-art microscopes to take photos the fibers and
"parasites," but they remain unidentified. The Reno
Gazette-Journal talked to other patients in Reno, Fallon,
Fernley, Las Vegas, Boulder City and the Bay Area who report
similar symptoms and have received similar diagnoses: their
disease is psychological, not physical.

But if Blodgett and other patients are delusional, the activists
said, thousands of people have been having the same
hallucinations in exactly the same way, thousands of miles apart.
And the delusions can be photographed and =97 if anyone will take
the time =97 studied.

"I was feeling things moving under my skin," said Margaret Moore,
a San Francisco interior designer who has had symptoms for five
years. "Something was coming out of the lesions on my skin,
something that looked like tiny worms or filaments. I brought the
samples to my doctor, but he didn't want to look at anything. He
threw out my samples and asked if I had a history of psychosis."

Moore said when she insisted the symptoms were real, the doctor
"got mad" at her and prescribed a muscle relaxant. She went to
other doctors who gave her the same diagnosis "from across the
room," without seriously considering her complaints.

During the last year, thanks to the Internet, she has
corresponded with dozens of other people with the same symptoms
who were also told by doctors their illnesses were in their minds.

"I don't think we're all having this mass delusion," Moore said.
"But when your family hears that five or six doctors all agree,
they say, =91come on, admit you're nuts.'

"Then you are really alone."

The Morgellon's Foundation =97 named for an early description of a
similar-sounding illness =97 was formed in 2002 to help the people
most doctors won't believe. Some doctors interviewed said the
foundation is dangerously reinforcing peoples' mental illnesses.

But the foundation's spokespeople said the knee-jerk diagnosis of
delusions is the problem, not their questions or the evidence
they offer. Morgellons' members encourage further investigation
into what they consider a health mystery. But they said
researchers don't seem interested in new data and dismiss their
information as quackery.

Mary Leitao of McMurray, Pa., is the executive director of the
Morgellon's Foundation, a group she said she began out of
desperation. Her son, Andrew, now 5, began complaining of things
crawling on his skin and was breaking out in lesions when he was 2.

Leitao, who has a degree in biology and who has worked as an
electron microscope operator and a chemist, saw the fibers and
the "fuzzballs" in Andrew's skin lesions. She took him to an
infectious disease specialist at Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh.

At first, she said, the specialist thought the skin condition was
an unusual case of scabies and prescribed a cream-based medicine.
When that didn't work, the doctor assured her the lesions weren't
caused by anything infectious and Andrew was referred to a
dermatologist.

Leitao said the dermatologist was initially fascinated by the
blue fibers sprouting from her son's skin lesions.

"The doctor looked at everything I showed him," she said. "He
examined Drew's skin lesions using the handheld microscope I
brought. He was so amazed at the blue fibers coming straight out
of a skin lesions that he called his physician's assistant over
to look at them."

She showed the doctor how the fibers glowed under an ultraviolet
light.

"(The dermatologist) admitted he did not know what made the
fibers, but was not willing to help me find out," Leitao said.
"His final diagnosis was eczema. He gave my son topical eczema
medication, which did not help."

As she left his office, she saw the doctor going out to lunch
with his wife and 4-year-old son.

"Not a care in the world," she said. "What is wrong with these
guys? No innate scientific curiosity or human empathy?

"I realized I was on my own."

Other parents of Morgellons' patients said their children also
have been diagnosed with common skin conditions, but if the
parents also report symptoms they get the DOP label.

The textbook diagnosis

Medical textbooks and journals warn that when a patient visits a
doctor with samples of "parasites" removed from their skin, it's
usually an ominous sign of mental illness.

"But the first obligation is to make sure they don't have an
infestation," said Dr. Jay Adams, a Carson City dermatologist who
is president of the Northern Nevada Dermatological Association.

"Take the time to look at it under a microscope."

He said doctors usually get a sense of the patient during the
visit and may suspect they're dealing with a delusional person.

"Everybody has fibers and foreign objects on their skin, even
things that live on them although we don't usually like to think
about it," Adams said. "For the most part people don't obsess
about that. There definitely are a group of patients who have
focused on the idea that things are crawling under their skins
and will take extreme measures to prove that to you. It can take
over their lives."

Adams said it's possible some patients may be misdiagnosed with
delusions when they actually may have a physical cause for their
symptoms. But he said that's rare.

"I think that patients with (delusions) are a far more common
answer than any of the patients who may really have parasites.
Delusions of parasitosis is real. Most of the patients are
delusional."

He said that under magnification, the samples usually turn out to
be lint. As for the black specks and other things the patients
get off their skins, he said it's possible to scratch, and poke
and peel away parts of the skin tissue or just collect the lint
that can be found anywhere.

"You don't want to encourage people to further resist the idea
that they are not infested with parasites," Adams said. "It's
dangerous to reinforce their delusion."

The medical books also have an explanation for family members or
friends of patients who witness the strange fibers or parasites.
It's called "folie a deux" =97 a French term meaning "the madness
of two." If more than one person testifies to seeing the
symptoms, then it's called "the madness of three," and so on.

Thus, witnesses don't count because being a witness is considered
evidence of sharing the patient's delusions.

Adams said he is not familiar with the Morgellon's Research
Foundation, but said it sounds like a "cult" in which the members
reinforce each other's psychosomatic symptoms.

Patients band together

Yet patients a continent apart have reported the same symptoms
and strange parasites long before seeing the Morgellon's Web site
or talking to other patients with similar symptoms. All said
their doctors made a snap diagnosis of delusions.

Lobelia Sharp, a plant pathologist at the University of
California San Francisco, said she's had the lesions, fibers and
other symptoms for about six months. She was diagnosed with
delusional parasitosis, she said.

"I kept insisting that the doctors look at the fibers coming out
of my skin," she said. "They said the answer was
anti-depressants, chemical restraints. I was taken to the
hospital by ambulance and held in the mental ward."

She said she and a friend who is a mold scientist recently spent
an evening using tweezers to snag "filaments" out of her skin
welts and examine them under a microscope. The material =97 which
she said was cellulose plant fibers =97 were similar to each other
but unlike anything either of them had ever seen.

"These were highly ordered cellulose fibers, not lint," she said.

Some research done

William Harvey, the Houston physician who believes the disease is
real, said he saw his first Morgellon's patient in November 2001.
She was the daughter of a surgeon who suffered from unexplainable
skin lesions.

"The patient told me some strange stories about things that were
living on her skin so I, too, wondered if her illness was
psychologically based," he said.

He looked at the lesions and saw "tiny colored threads" in the
wounds. He sent several specimens to a mold expert for analysis.
The fibers were put in culture dishes to grow, but only a fungus
called candida tropicalis was found.

Harvey also found tiny worms on a patient's scalp that later
proved to be the nymph form of a feline parasite =97 a tapeworm
that preys on cats and shouldn't be found on humans. Other
patients were infested with forms of algae, other plant
pathogens, or candida tropicalis, the fungus found in the
laboratory culture of the "fibers."

"Once I started taking these patients seriously, I saw the
variety and number of unusual and unexpected skin occupants was
real, they were unequivocally there," Harvey said. "I still don't
know what some of these things are, but my theory is that the
symptoms are a phenomenon of a much larger process that has
rendered their skin immunity ineffective."

The process could allow plant and animal organisms that couldn't
survive on uninfected people to thrive on Morgellon's patients' skin.

Some patients report the "crawling feeling" without the threads,
lesions or other symptoms, Harvey said, and all seem to have
easily testable immune deficiencies. All 17 of his "Morgellons'"
patients in Houston have tested positive for the microbe
associated with Lyme disease, he said.

Harvey said he treats the skin lesions with a lactic acid cream
and all the other symptoms with high-dose antibiotics. He said
the lesions heal over with treatment, but they leave blue
indentations at the sites of the skin breaks. "That scar may give
us a clue," he said. "Something pathologic is happening there."

His first two patients who have completed treatment for their
borreliosis symptoms appear to have recovered their skin immunity
and lost their "Morgellons'" sores as well, he said.

"Kill the infectious agent and the immune system appears to reset
itself," he said.

Harvey said physicians' inability to see diseases before they are
officially "discovered" in peer-reviewed journals isn't rare.

"Diseases are defined within a box and thus everything outside
that box isn't the disease," Harvey said. "That's the way
medicine and science evolves. All definitions in all texts change
continuously. In this case we know enough to broaden the size of
the box and know that in time we'll get to the more fundamental
reality.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

             Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:10:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:48:50 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Warren


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 10:48:37 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:08:11 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 12:14:26 -0400
>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>>Source: SpaceDaily.Com

>>>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html

>>>TERRADAILY
>>>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>>>05-04-04

>>>by Ben Bova
>>>for Astrobiolgy Magazine
>>>Moffett Field (SPX)

>><snip>

>>Good Day Fellow Listers,

>>Here's my response to Dr. Bova's excerpt that appeared in
>>Astrobiology Magazine

>See:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m04-009.shtml

>His reply with my follow-up:

>FW: Dear Dr. Bova, Thank you for your expeditious response.

>BB: Dear Frank Warren: All the "evidence" you cite is
>circumstantial or hearsay.

>FW: Since you didn't mention "UFOs," I'll assume you mean only
>my response  to your statement that there is "no supportive
>evidence" in your belief of intelligent life in the universe.

>First, none of my examples for "supportive evidence" is
>"hearsay," what astronomers have discovered has been well
>documented, and "mathematics is a science"; there is substantial
>documentation about life in a "lightless" environment in the
>depths of the ocean, and deep underground in solid rock; please
>correct me if I'm wrong, although the debate continues, the
>consortium "is not against" ALH 84001 having fossilized microbic
>Martian bacteria in it.

>I will concede "circumstantial evidence," but that is evidence
>none the less, and my statement was, "there is in fact exactly
>that, 'supportive evidence' of the existence of life elsewhere
>in the universe." (E.g., although, most extrasolar-planets
>"cannot be seen" the "evidence" that they exist is in the
>"wobble" of the accompanying star).

>BB: Although astronomers have found the chemical elements for
>life and even some regions that may be habitable by terrestrial
>standards, no one has yet found a microbe beyond Earth (except
>for terrestrial contaminants), let alone the faintest evidence
>for intelligent life.

>FW: As I said in my initial response to your excerpt, "If one
>accepts how science dictates how complex life evolved on this
>planet, then there is "ample" supportive evidence of the same
>from planets in our own "Milky Way," not to mention the vastness
>of the universe."

>To reiterate, if one accepts the principles of science, and
>agrees with the concepts of said science in how "complex life"
>evolved to this stage, on this planet, then there is a liberal
>amount of "supportive evidence" to suggest the same on other
>planets in the universe!

>BB: I really think you should read FAINT ECHOES, DISTANT STARS
>before arguing these points.

>FW: Agreed, I think a signed copy is in order!

>BB: I'm an optimist; I believe life will be found and perhaps
>even intelligent life, eventually. I've written fiction about
>these matters. But we need proof, not conjecture.

>FW: The points I offered are "based on scientific fact"
>certainly not conjecture! In the end however, it's all
>irrelevant, as there is more "proof, evidence, factual data"
>that ETI is here now and has been for quite some time; one only
>needs to apply the methods you mentioned earlier:

>"The essence of science is measurement and proof. Ideas must be
>tested before they are accepted as valid. Indeed, this concept
>of testability is central to scientific understanding. Every
>idea, every measurement, must be tested to see if it holds up
>under examination."

>Ben Bova

>Warmest Regards,

>Frank Warren


Second e-mail from Bova and my response:

FW: Dear Dr. Bova,

BB: Dear Frank Warren: You believe what you want to,

FW: Omitting UFOs for the moment, and speaking strictly from the
dictates of societal programming, I believe as you do, "that
life exists beyond the Earth. I believe that intelligent life
must exist somewhere in the vast universe of stars and
galaxies."

BB: but the scientific community doesn't accept hypothesis as
proof.

FW: It seems we're debating "semantics," so to be clear (again)-
-the points I offered as "supportive evidence," i.e., "evidence
that supports the ideals" that there is "extraterrestrial life
in the universe" are not "hypothesis," they are "scientific
fact!" These are discoveries made by astronomers,
astrobiologists, archeologists etc., not to mention the science
of mathematics.

Fact: More then 100 extra-solar planetary systems have been
discovered since 1991.

Fact: "Light" is no longer a prerequisite for life as we know
it.

Fact: Life has been found to survive in the most severe
environments.

Fact: Life on this planet is millions of years old and has
survived countless environmental cataclysms.

Fact: Using "known factors," e.g., planets, stars etc.,
equations can be derived to estimate "earth-like planets."

As I stated previously, "If one accepts how science dictates how
complex life evolved on this planet," then all of the above, and
there of course  is more, is "supportive" evidence that the same
has occurred elsewhere in the universe.

BB: Yes, there are chains of reasoning and evidence that lead to
the expectation that life should exist beyond Earth.

FW: Thank you--we're in agreement!

BB: There is no evidence of such life, as yet. As for UFO
stories, they are mostly hearsay, without physical evidence to
support them.

FW: Please give me your definition of "physical evidence." In
the mean time, I would assume you would agree the following
would fall under that category:

* Photographic evidence.

* Mechanical/equipment anomalies just prior to, during and
shortly after a UFO event.

* Radar reports.

* Physical maladies to eye witnesses.

* Video records and spectroscopic data.

* Atmospheric effects during UFO events.

* Electrical anomalies/interference during UFO events.

* Trace evidence left behind from a landing site.

* Debris emitted from UFOs.

Physical evidence in a "court of law" opposed to the scientific
community would also include:

* Signed affidavits or declarations.

* Government documents.

* FOIA releases.

* Reports.

* Books.

* Congressional testimony.

* Newspaper reports

The irony of course, when it comes to UFOs the most "favored
evidence" as far as our courts are concerned, i.e., "eye witness
testimony" becomes invalid; e.g., if a Harrier Jump Jet were to
suffer engine problems and have to land in a farmer's field
somewhere in the midwest, let's say, and then take off again,
and some notables in the near-by town were to witness the event,
although it would be unique, no one would question the sanity of
the eye witnesses; change the jet to a UFO, and now they're all
lunatics.

I certainly can't determine how much energy you have put into
educating yourself on the UFO phenomenon based on our limited
dialogue, however; the statements you have made thus far
certainly indicate ignorance in the matter, and quite frankly
this surprises me given your academic credentials, as well as
your noteworthy achievements; one assumes that being an
accomplished writer that "research" would be second nature.

In any event, as you say, "you can believe what you want to."

BB: I'll be happy to autograph any copies of my books that you
buy. Ben Bova

FW: I would be happy to buy the book in question-how much and to
where do I send a check?


Respectfully,

Frank Warren









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -

From: Sue Strickland <strick.nul>
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 13:54:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:51:46 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:22:02 -0300
>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 00:37:36 -0400
>>Subject: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>>Source: SpaceDaily.Com
>>>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html
>>>TERRADAILY

>>>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>>>05-04-04

>>>by Ben Bova

>>>for Astrobiolgy Magazine

>>>Moffett Field (SPX)

>>Ironically, one of the best early multiple witness sightings
>>(Rogue River, May 24, 1949; case 10 of Special Report #14)
>>involved two witnesses from Moffett Field (Ames Aeronautical
>>Laboratory near San Francisco). I suppose this has skipped
>>Bova's notice.

>Bova has been writing nonsense about UFOs at least since an
>ANALOG Brass Tacks article in December 1975.
>A couple of years back I did a MUFON Journal column about more
>recent, but equally unenlightened, comments. He has refused to
>learn anything about the subject, just regurgitates the same
>nonsense as noted above.
>I discussed the false reasoning, false claims of Bova, Isaac
>Asimov, and Arthur C. Clarke in my MUFON 1977 Conference Paper
>"Science Fiction, Science and UFOs" which is the first of 4
>papers in my "Flying Saucers: Four Scientific Papers", 29 pages,
>double column, available for $4. Including postage, from UFORI,
>POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958.

>The other 3 are "Fiction, Fact and Flying Saucers","A Scientific
>Approach to Flying Saucer Behavior" and "The Case for the ET
>Origin of Flying Saucers".

>Somebody could probably write a good science fiction story about
>a conspiracy of Science Fiction writers to disinform the public
>about flying saucers... throw in a conspiracy about certain
>Academic Scientists working with them, and it would be a prize
>winner.

>http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html


Gentlemen:

It's been a long time in coming, but I'm finally doing it... as
fiction. Very few people, including many so-called "scientists,"
care about the facts. It's a tough bunch of nuts to crack. IF
someone gets the notion to check out the "facts" presented in
this book of "fiction," (i.e., events, time sequences), who
knows what revelations may be found to be true? Groan! Anyway,
it's a one-time read no sane person truly wants to accept, but
which reality some of us have had to endure on a frighteningly
real plane, with proof we know, not believe. Like the effects of
gravity and anti-gravity, it's that clear and that amazing.

Bova and his ilk will always exist, even if and/when they are
presented with facts. Stubborn pride and ignorance are fruits of
the same vine...fear. It's nice to know that Drs. Bruce and
Stanton are scientists still willing to search, find and teach,
without resorting to "fiction." Sorry guys, I don't have the
smarts you do. I have to resort to a form of fiction to tell it
like it is.

I have wished many times to have 1/8 the smarts of these men.
Yet, I wonder how they would have fared playing diplomat at age
8 to a bunch of skinny, white-skinned aliens, and still maintain
their sanity and mental acumen. Each of us is unique in some way
or another. That's what I've learned in 59 years. As a result, I
don't judge so harshly anymore. I pray that each of us would
learn that. I have a feeling that war would be no more, if that
were the case. Certainly, we would refrain from torturing one of
our own species in an act as primitive and self-destructive as
warfare.

I often wonder if Einstein was visited. Culturally, I suppose
the world may consider him to be the brainiest man who has ever
lived.  He may have been. However, he flunked Algebra, so I
don't think his mind was so mathematically inclined. He hired
flunkies to translate his verbalizations into mathematical
equations. Perhaps his theories on relativity, time and space,
were based on his perceived experiences, similar to ones some of
the rest of us have visualized when visited. BTW, what was the
warning he wrote to President Truman regarding the use of the
technology that the atom bomb might unleash? Don't make excuses.
The facts are there. The facts were kept secret to justify
actions taken. Obviously, our mind-set hasn't changed in 50
years. I have little doubt that it will change in the next 50,
unless of course, the aliens prove to be correct in their
projected warnings. I have a feeling that those predictions will
be down-played and "ignorance of consequences," will be used as
a viable excuse for not doing exactly what we know we must do to
survive as a species. If ignorance cannot be used as an excuse
for paying inappropriate taxes, how do we render to Caesar what
is his if he pretends he doesn't know what is his? Rome fell.
What's going to be the world's final excuse? Ignorance? Groan! I
hope we can do better than that.

I guess I'll get off my soap box now.


Hugs,

Sue Strickland
ex-abductee








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                   Texas Man Claims He Caught UFO On Tape

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:05:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:05:39 -0400
Subject: Texas Man Claims He Caught UFO On Tape




Source: KGBT Television - Harlingen, Texas

http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=1844655&nav=0w0vMt4G


Mission Valley Man Claims He Caught UFO On Tape!

Reported by Ray Pedraza

[Video Clip]

MAY 5, 2004 - A Mission man claims he may have captured the
images of a UFO on his VHS camcorder, early Monday morning.

The man, who doesn't want his identity revealed, says he was
awakened by his dogs around midnight.

When he went to see what they were barking at, he says he
literally couldn't believe his eyes. Bright lights, unlike any
he'd ever seen before, danced around in the sky at a distance.

While he doesn't want to speculate, some of his friends who
viewed the tape, believe he may have been in the company of
space aliens.

"Well, to me it's very out of this world," says Jose Nieto, a
friend of the Mission resident.

Laughing, he adds, "I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see
E.T. here in the Valley after seeing this!"

Nieto says he and his buddy joke about it now but are still
wondering if anyone else in the Mission area saw the
unidentified flying objects.

Showing Action 4 News the amateur footage, he says as many as 15
lights could be seen but the one he focused his lens on appeared
to be changing shapes.

"Actually you see something spinning. I mean it looks like a
mushroom, Pac Man and different colors. It's just pretty
amazing, you know, pretty colorful."

Nieto says he's see no stranger to the extra-terrestrial. He
claims he's seen UFO's before but none quite like this.

"Not as bad as this before. I've seen UFO's in the past but not
as bad as this one. I'm very surprised. And once again it makes
me wonder, 'Are we really alone?'."

Action 4 News did check with Mission Police spokesperson Martin
Garza to see if anyone reported the suspicious sighting; he says
'no'.

But on Monday, there were media reports of a similar sighting in
Mexico.


[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com & Richard Hendricks
 for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                                 Life Finder

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:11:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:11:01 -0400
Subject: Life Finder




Source: Astrobiology Magazine

http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9
62&mode=threadℴ=0&thold=0

95-11-04

Life Finder
edited testimony of Jonathan Lunine before Moon To Mars
Presidential Commission

Dr. Jonathan I. Lunine is professor of planetary science and
physics and the chair of the theoretical astrophysics program at
the University of Arizona. Dr. Lunine is also a distinguished
visiting scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and an
interdisciplinary scientist on the Cassini mission to Saturn and
on the James Webb Next Generation telescope. He testified before
the President's Commission on the Moon, Mars and Beyond on April
16, 2004. I was told that my purpose here is to address the
"beyond" element in the President's initiative and that's the
"way beyond" element, apparently. I'm supposed to skip over the
entire solar system and go directly to the search for Earths
around other stars. And so I'll begin with a recurring dream
that I had as a child growing up in the middle of New York City.
In this dream, I was standing in an open field, night was
falling, the stars came out in incredible brilliance. You don't
see that in New York City except at the Hayden Planetarium. And
the planets of our own solar system were there with unreal
clarity. Suddenly, in this dream, I was moving through this
cosmos seeing the stars that passed me, wondering what strange
worlds awaited me at the other end of this journey. I never got
to the other end before waking up.

That's actually an appropriate metaphor for the human aspiration
of finding other Earths around other stars. For four centuries
before that, there were millennia of wondering and speculation
and philosophy. Four centuries after the start of the Copernican
revolution we still don't know whether a planet like the Earth
exists in an appropriate orbit around another star. We know of
120 planets around other stars that are the size of Jupiter and
Saturn, and those planets are abundant enough to tell us that
the universe makes planets in abundance. It's an easy process;
part of the star formation process. And most importantly, the
technology for detecting Earth-sized planets is rapidly
maturing.

We as a nation do know how to detect Earths around the nearest
stars in the sky, the nearest stars to our own solar system, and
therefore how to begin to implement the "beyond" part of the
President's vision. It doesn't require astronauts; it does
require putting into space potentially two different kinds of
telescopic systems one that works at optical wavelengths and the
other at infrared wavelengths. Our eyes work in the optical. The
infrared we think of as heat radiation, but it is simply light
of longer wavelengths than what our eyes can see.

So what are the advantages of both the optical and the infrared?
Well, these contain different clues to the nature of a planet
the composition of its atmosphere, its temperature variation,
the presence of clouds. The infrared is better at determining
temperature and the abundance of certain gases that we think of
as part of a habitable planet. The optical part of the spectrum
is better at looking for variability, looking for clouds. In the
optical part of the spectrum, we can actually do this with a
single telescope in space that's equipped with a device called a
coronagraph that masks the light of the parent star.

(To detect Earth-like planets), the telescope would have to have
a diameter at least six meters long; it could be shorter in
width if need be, and it's within the capability of space-borne
systems today. The other system would be an interferometer,
which would work in the infrared. Coronagraphs don't work as
well in the infrared; interferometers work somewhat better in
the infrared. And here one would have several telescopes along a
beam that would combine the light in a very precise way so that
the star that one is looking at is blocked out completely, and
that allows planets potentially to be detected from under the
glare of that parent star.

There is what is called an interference pattern due to the
combining of light from several mirrors in this telescope
system, and an Earth is about a billion times less bright than
the parent star. This device could be mirrors arrayed along a
girder, or it could be free-flying spacecraft that are precisely
aligned with each other. Its technology is less mature than the
coronagraphic technology, and so the coronagraph is likely to
fly first.

But with the two concepts, both called Terrestrial Planet Finder
[TPF], we have the solid foundation for a program that would
discover and characterize habitable planets around other stars
before humans return to the Moon in force.

The coronagraph could fly in 2013 or 2014, perhaps, after a
period of time here in 2007 to '11 when some precursor missions
that are already on the books such as Kepler, SIM and next-
generation space telescopes look for giant planets and also for
Earths in close orbits around stars. The interferometer might
fly in 2018. Now, I'm not advocating a plan that excludes
astronauts, because really TPF, which is embodied by these two
missions, is the gateway to something much grander, something
that might require the intervention of astronauts in space or on
the Moon.

If Earth-like planets are discovered around nearby stars, we'll
want to know many things about them. Do they have continents and
oceans? Is there plant life that's generating energy by
photosynthesis?

(Answering these questions) requires a much larger device, which
I'll call Life Finder, which is a large enough system that the
light can be so finely divided that one could find the telltale
signature of chlorophyll or other similar pigments associated
with photosynthesis on this planet.

Conceivably one could resolve this planet, perhaps seeing
details on the scale of half the size or a third of the size of
the planet itself. I don't know what that type of system would
look like. It's a long way off, two decades or more. And for
that reason, the Commission should not recommend jumping
directly to this very large Life Finder mission, which is a
human-tended observatory on the Moon or somewhere in space for
detecting and making the initial characterization of Earths
around other stars. This can be done with TPF, and to try to do
it with Life Finder would set the search back by a decade or
more.

TPF could provide an incredible boost in interest in going to
the Moon or sending astronauts to places like the stable
Lagrange 2 point, if, in fact, TPF discovers that there is an
Earth around a nearby star and there is then a strong desire to
find out what the nature of that planet really is. So what I'm
recommending is that over the coming decade the search for other
Earths and the return of humans to destinations beyond Earth
orbit take separate paths, with the intent that they meet again
after both having seen their initial successes separately and
not before.

I want to close by briefly sketching two versions of a story
that takes place in 2014. A scientist takes her kids camping,
and in version one NASA has not flown TPF because it's tied the
search for other Earths to the establishment of a lunar base,
and so nothing has flown yet. In the second version, TPF flies
in 2014 and very quickly discovers, let's say, two Earth-sized
planets around separate, nearby stars. In version one of the
story, the family is sitting around the campfire; the kids ask
their mother whether there are aliens in space and she replies
that nobody knows. But she also says that there might be planets
like our Earth spinning around some of the stars in the sky. So
the family all looks up and the conversation ends as it always
has through history in ambiguity, because no one ever knows if
there are other Earths beyond our solar system.

Earth as seen by the departing Voyager spacecraft: a tiny, pale
blue dot. Credit: NASA

In version 2 of this story, after TPF is flown, the same
question is asked by the kids. But now the scientist walks their
kids away from the campfire out into an open field and points to
a certain set of constellations in the sky, and she points to
two stars in particular and says, "Do you see these two stars?
Each of them we know has an Earth orbiting around it, much like
our own Earth orbits our sun. We know that there is air and
there are clouds around that particular planet, the one around
that star, and so there are plans to look more closely at it to
see if there are signs of life." And then she concludes, "Maybe
some day when your children's children's children are alive,
they will go to that distant world to touch its soil and meet
whoever or whatever is there."

No other generation before us in the whole history of humanity
could lay claim to the second scenario. But we possibly can
within a decade.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                 UFO Over Scotish Town In Morning Rush Hour

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:21:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:21:46 -0400
Subject: UFO Over Scotish Town In Morning Rush Hour




Source: IC Lanarkshire - East Kilbride, Scotland

http://iclanarkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/news/localnews/eastkilbride/content_objecti
d=12656817_method=full_siteid=50144_headline=-UFO-is-spotted-over-Kingsgate-Reta
il-Park-during-morning-rush-hour-name_page.html

05-11-04

UFO is spotted over Kingsgate Retail Park during morning
rush-hour

By Judith Tonner


The appearance of a UFO in the sky above Kingsgate Retail Park
last week caused spooked drivers to bump their cars.

Several people reported seeing a huge silver object in the area
as they drove past at around 8.45am last Wednesday.

Drivers were so distracted by the bizarre sighting that at least
two minor bumps were reported, as the attention of motorists
wandered from the more mundane forms of transport before them on
the road.

A local woman, who did not wish to be named, contacted the News
to describe the experience of a friend who was driving towards
the retail park at that time.

She said: "My friend saw something hovering, which was silver in
appearance and looked like the dishes you see on the side of
television transmitters.

"It was huge, and it was pulsating - he wasn't the only one who
saw it, as you couldn't have missed it.

"He saw it and just thought: 'Good God', and was really quite
shaken by the whole thing.

"Then the object just suddenly disappeared - it was so strange.

"My friend thinks the accidents at Kingsgate were a result of
other people seeing this thing as well."

The sighting has also intrigued East Kilbride UFO Club, whose
members were warned in advance that they might be about to spot
something strange in the sky.

Colleagues in Cumbernauld had seen a similar object around half
an hour previously, and alerted their South Lanarkshire
counterparts that it appeared to be heading in their direction.

Lee Close, of the Anglo-Scottish UFO Research Agency, has been
investigating last week's events in tandem with the local UFO
club.

He said: "This is the first time I've come across a UFO causing
a car crash, although I'm aware of it having happened in America
before.

"People in Scotland tend to think: 'oh, there's something in the
sky' and just carry on, so the fact that it's caused two fender
benders is quite unusual.

"The fact that it's in daylight interests us immensely too -
 previously 95 per cent of sightings were at night, although
they're now almost equal between day and night-time."

Anyone who saw last week's UFO or witnessed either of the two
reported vehicle bumps is asked to contact Lee on 07957 912500,
or Noel Wallace of East Kilbride UFO Club on 07941 157187, and
all information will be treated in the strictest confidence.








                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                UFO & Abduction - Are We An Alien Experiment?

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:28:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:23:22 -0400
Subject: UFO & Abduction - Are We An Alien Experiment?



Source:Profindpages.com

http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/11/MN104.htm

UFO And Abduction Reports - Are We Just An Alien Experiment?

05-11-04)

Even the most hardened skeptic must concede that many of the
Abduction Reports and UFO Sightings can not be simply dismissed
as figments of the imagination or weather balloons.

With so many other planets in our universe, it would take a very
narrow minded person indeed to believe that we are the only life
form that exists. It would also be arrogant to assume that just
because humans are the dominant life force on this planet, we
would be superior to any "alien" life from another planet.

We actually believe that humans are no more than Laboratory rats
for a number of different alien races and it is our limited
intelligence (compared to the aliens) that blind us from these
facts. Humans obviously judge a situation based on their current
level of knowledge and find it almost impossible to imagine an
alien force that has advanced level spacecrafts or perhaps the
ability to communicate without speech.

But what makes some people choose to dismiss all reports of
aliens as pure imagination and stories invented by crazy people?
Sure, many reports can be eliminated as doubtful and some photos
of UFO's can be faked. But not all reports can be explained away
this easily and why would so many people make up such stories?
They can't all be crazy!

Could it be that a persons religion and their views on God
conflict with the possibility of intelligent alien life? Are
some people just afraid to know the truth? Are some people aware
of aliens but choose to conceal these facts?

Many skeptics believe that sightings of UFO's have increased
since the media started reporting these events, or because of
Sci-Fi films and television shows that have been produced since.
This may be true to a certain extent, but then perhaps people
are more aware of their existence now?

UFO reports go back as far as 1504 BC, even many of the Biblical
stories could be referring to UFO's. At the parting of the Sea,
was a "cloud" not seen hovering above? And were there not
reports of another "cloud" seen hovering over the tabernacle,
that contained the commandments, and reports of light and
unspoken voices? (and possible radiation affects on the skin of
those who came in contact with this cloud).

Many American pilots during The Second World War reported seeing
"luminous discs" (also called "foo fighters") following
alongside their aircraft.

Following a large number of UFO sightings in 1947 the USAF began
Project Blue Book (this was originally called Project Sign,
changed to Project Grudge and finally called Project Blue Book).
The USAF investigated some 12,618 sightings in approximately 22
years before the project was terminated on December the 17th
1969. The decision to terminate this report was based on an
evaluation of a report prepared by the University of Colorado
entitled, Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects, more
commonly referred to as the "Condon Report".

Many of the investigations carried out by the USAF dismissed a
large proportion of the reports saying that the sightings were
aircraft, weather balloons and even the moon as it was setting.
However, some of the reports could not be explained and were
"unsolved". Yet despite this, the report was still terminated.
It seems a little strange that such investigations were
cancelled when their was no conclusive evidence that UFO's did
not (or could not) exist. Surely even a small doubt about their
existence should have been sufficient to continue this report?

But what of Abductions? Are Aliens just curious to see how we
are getting on? We think not. There is a growing opinion that
the Aliens motives are more sinister and many reports by
abductees seem to support this. Many , as we already know, refer
to physical examinations where experiments are conducted.
Samples are taken and fluids and objects are inserted. Some
abductees experience considerable pain during these examinations
and often discover marks on their bodies afterwards (single and
multiple punctures, large bruises, 3 and 4 fingered claw marks
and various triangles).

The Aliens seem to have the ability to alter our perception of
our surroundings and can make us see them in different forms
(sometimes as someone we knew). Reports of their appearance vary
from Grays, Reptile and Insect looking and even human-looking
blond beauties.

Abductees claim to have seen more than one type of Alien
together on a craft or in a facility and have even reported
seeing human looking people working with the aliens (sometimes
in military uniform).

Hypnosis has been able to reveal an abductees experience more
clearly, but there is evidence to suggest that something called
a "Screen Memory" is placed in a victims subconscious that
blocks the true information and only a deeper form of hypnosis
can discover this. These "screen memories" are used to replace a
victims period of "missing time". This may account for many
abductees only suspecting an abduction has taken place, as only
vague flashbacks are experienced.

All these reports lead us to believe that we are merely alien
experiments and our future is constantly monitored and
"adjusted". It would also seem that some humans are also helping
the aliens in some way (either willingly or by force). Clearly,
there is sufficient evidence to suggest that Aliens are more
involved in our lives than we imagine, yet it is hard to accept
that we are little more than Lab rats!

Yet it seems strange that if there are so many UFO sightings and
Abductions, and the Aliens are friendly, why haven't they made
more attempt to contact us in a more normal way? Why is it that
the military and government organizations, who have more
sophisticated tracking devices, are so eager to deny the
knowledge of UFO's? Is it really possible that they don't see
what others do?

Perhaps the reason for the secrecy is the effect the truth would
have on such Alien experiments? Maybe they prefer to examine us
under natural circumstances?

One thing seems clear, Aliens do not appear to be guiding our
planet and its people to better times, otherwise we would see
less wars, disease and natural disasters. Aliens often tell
abductees that Global Chaos and Destruction is imminent and that
some humans will be "rescued" from the planet to continue the
species (either on another planet or on Earth after the
destruction is over). If they were really our "friends", would
they not tell all of us and give more humans a chance to
survive? Perhaps the disaster is man made and could be avoided
with some help?

Only continued research can uncover these mysteries more and we
would love to hear from anyone who has experienced an abduction





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 19

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:53:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:25:57 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 19

Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

   UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 19
May 12, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


XENDRA APPEARS IN
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

   A Xendra (pronounced Shenn-drah--J.T.), a kind of
inter-dimensional gateway, appeared last week in Carlsbad,
California (population 78,247), an oceanside city on
Highway 521 about 30 miles (50 kilometers) north of San
Diego.
   The Xendra originally appeared in South America. It
first appeared in 2002 in Los Cipreses National Park near
Rancagua in Chile. Last year (2003), it appeared over the
seaport city of Maceio in Brazil. In South America, the
manifestation appeared as a blue arch, but, in Carlsbad,
it appeared as an amber cube.
   Eyewitness Lee Smythe reported, "Last Saturday (May
1, 2004) I was outside with my cousin, and we were
shooting the breeze (American slang for chatting --J.T.),
and, out of literally mid-air, a strange amber cube
appeared. Then, in a millisecond, the same sort of craft
(UFO) I had seen previously (in December 2003) showed up
in the middle of the cube, and then the cube disappeared,
and the craft began to move from east to west," out over
Carlsbad State Beach and the Pacific Ocean.
   "We called our entire family and watched it for a few
minutes, and it went out of sight. It was the same amber
light I had witnessed before. The first sighting was with
my girlfriend, and other people saw it, too. I live in
San Diego and witnessed it last December. Although this
time it had that odd amber cube around it, which was
hollow, like a cube made from neon lights. This was in
Carlsbad, Calif., far to the north of my original
sighting."
   "I would like to know if anyone else from the San
Diego area has seen these lights. I can't fathom what is
going on and am wondering if it may be military, since
there are many bases located around here."
   UFOINFO webmaster John Hayes, commenting on the
sighting, said, "I will be interested to know what you
think of this 'cube.' This is not really something I
would think of, but for some reason I am still evidently
thinking about a possible teleportation device. The
'cube' could create a safe area for the UFO to beam into.
Pretty odd thinking for me, but if teleportation is
possible, you need to know exactly where you're going to
end up."
   "The shape is different, and so is the color," UFO
Roundup editor Joseph Trainor added, "But in terms of
manifestation, altitude and duration, the phenomenon in
Carlsbad is the same as the Xendra witnessed by those 24
ufologists in Chile and the people in Maceio, Brazil. Who
knows? Maybe the color is different because this time the
Xendra appeared on a different continent--North America."
(Many thanks to John Hayes for this report. And, for more
on the Xendra's earlier appearances, see UFO Roundup,
volume 7, number 20 for May 14, 2002, "Sixto Paz discusses
the Xendra experience," page 1; and UFO Roundup, volume 8,
number 12 for March 19, 2003, "Xendra appears again, this
time in Brazil," page 1.)


EL UNYUDO TERRORIZES
JUSTO DARACT, ARGENTINA

   "It all began a few weeks ago when a young woman left
school" in Justo Daract, a small city in western
Argentina, "at around 11 p.m. and came across someone
described as 'dressed in black, masked, with long (finger)
nails,' who climbed deftly up the flagpole in Pringles
Plaza, causing terror among the students."
   "Almost simultaneously it was said that a person
involved with the Community Watch Program saw the strange
entity in an open field between the Club Pringles futbol
(soccer in the USA--J.T.) field and the barrio Libertario
Ferrari (neighborhood), while others claimed also having
seen it climb trees in the Plaza Juan Esteban Pedernera in
the barrio Viviendas (neighborhood)."
   "Rumors began to spread despite the fact that no
formal complaint had been made, according to officials of
the local sheriff's office. Some locals said that the
authorities had been apprised of the strange phenomenon."
   "Up to this moment, the descriptions of the persons
who claimed having been startled in the dark involved a
somewhat tall person wearing a mask and who appeared to
have horns. Subsequent accounts changed its size,
although descriptions of its agility and movement remained
the same in all accounts."
   "Little by little, the intrigue increased, along with
the collective psychosis, and manifestations of El Unyudo
(Spanish for The Clawed One--J.T.) took place in a variety
of neighborhoods, times and other circumstances and
appearances."
   "Reliable official sources said that on the evening
of (Monday) April 5 (2004) there were joint operations
involving the police and Community Watch personnel to the
south of the barrio Ilusion and the barrio Libertario
Ferrari, where some claimed having seen the sinister
character near a soccer field."
   "'It jumped over the barbed-wire fence with
remarkable agility and moved with such long strides that
it appeared to be floating on air and was impossible to
reach,' said one witness to the enigmatic apparition,
while adding that the chase and tracking were fruitless."
   "That same night, others claimed having seen the now
'small' character in the barrio Jardin Ferroviario to the
south of the city and in barrio Viviendas to the
southeast."
   "Tuesday night (April 6, 2004) was restful, but
Wednesday (April 7, 2004) caused the most comment and
terrified many people, unleashing mass hysteria: an 11-
year-old boy from Barrio Norte went into shock" as a
result of meeting "the sinister creature of the night" who
"tapped him on the shoulder and showed his terrifying face
to him."
   "The boy was treated and released from Ernesto Pompeo
Borsani Hospital. But it was primarily this medical
center that became the scene of the rumors, since it is
said that there a nurse, a doctor and an ambulance driver,
along with security personnel at the site, caught a
fleeting glimpse of the night creature, causing panic in
some of the witnesses."
   "The (Argentinian) authorities were informed
immediately, and a patrol car reached the site, but
nothing could be gleaned except for the considerable
fright experienced by some of the witnesses, particularly
the nurse. Another security guard was doing his work when
the event occurred. He said the police had been phoned
and nothing had been found. Further details were
unavailable since 'everyone here was really scared.'"
   "A truck driver living close to the Club Pringles
stadium also claimed having seen the character appear over
the wall of the building and, although this has not yet
been ascertained, he fired some shots against El Unyudo,
who seemed immune. A subsequent inspection of the site
with a flashlight (torch in UK and Australia--J.T.) showed
no signs of the apparition."
   "'It had an ape-like appearance, standing no more
than 1.2 meters (3 feet, 7 inches) and leaves footprints
similar to that of a goat.'"
(Editor's Comment: The truck driver's description sounds
like a Dero, one of a mysterious race of underground
dwellers. A Dero was seen earlier this year near a canal
in Buenos Aires.)
   "There are some who claim to have seen the creature
climbing the flagpole in Pringles Plaza, in the Club
Pringles soccer field and on the cereal silos in the
vicinity of Barrio Norte."
   "The apparition is linked to a young woman who was
riding her bicycle back to her home in Libertario Ferrari
around 3 o'clock in the morning on Friday, April 8 (2004).
She saw a strange character jumping from rooftop to
rooftop in the 331 Viviendas" block.
   "Frightened, the young woman pedaled back to the bus
station some 10 blocks distant, to take the bus and return
home in tears, as was seen by the bus station employees
who attended to the young lady."
   "Large and with a mask and horns; small and apelike,
black or brown, with a nude upper torso and covered with
tattoos; standing upright or on four legs; leaving goat-
shaped footprints; climbing trees, pipelines or metal
silos; jumping over wire fences or small lagoons, swift
and elusive--the descriptions that have been given of El
Unyudo, who has captured the public's attention and caused
fear in most."
   Justo Daract is in Argentina's San Luis province,
located about 600 kilometers (360 miles) west of Buenos
Aires, the national capital. (See the Argentinian
newspaper El Diario de la Republica for April 11, 2004,
"Search for 'the Clawed One' continues." Muchas gracias a
Scott Corrales, Mario Luis Bracamonte y Carlos Iurchuk
para esto articulo de diario. For more on El Unyudo, see
UFO Roundup, volume 9, number 18 for May 5, 2004, "El
Unyudo causes a panic in western Argentina," page 3.)
(Editor's Comment: Madre de Dios! What's next!? El
Unyudo challenging Spider-Man to a battle on the Avenida
Nueve de Julio in Buenos Aires!?)


CATTLE MUTILATION CASE
REPORTED IN MANITOBA

   "An Arborg cattle farmer made a horrific discovery
Monday," April 26, 2004, "when he found the partially
skinned remains of one of his animals that was missing its
tongue and apparently drained of its blood."
   "'The whole thing has turned out to be more sinister
than I thought,' said Yvonne, a neighbour who examined the
mutilated animal. She asked not to have her name used to
protect her family."
   "'What sort of weirdos have we got travelling in our
neighbourhood?'"
   "Gordon, who would only allow the Sun to print his
first name, said he discovered the carcass on his farm
Monday afternoon."
   "'I don't really want to speculate on what happened.
I know what I saw,' he said, adding that he is still
shaken up by the find."
   Located in Canada's Manitoba province, Arborg
(population 1,012) "is 100 kilometers (60 miles) north of
Winnipeg."
   "The mutilation happened Saturday or Sunday night
(April 24 or 25, 2004), Gordon said. No one heard
anything."
   "He's heard of several cow mutilations in the area
over the past few years, Gordon said."
   "He called the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police--
J.T.), reporting that the animal had been attacked by a
predator. He has since changed his mind about the cause."
   "'It was definitely a sharp object used,' he said."
   "Acting RCMP Corporal Glenn Syme said he has never
investigated an instance of cattle mutilation. The RCMP
did take a call this week about a cow being attacked by a
predator, likely from Gordon."
   "The animal was found with an incision under its
chin. The skin had been pulled from the face, exposing
the teeth."
   "'It's not the gore, we've seen that before. It's
the evil behind it,' Yvonne said."
   "The tip of the animal's tongue, cut from its root,
was placed in the mouth, she said."
   "'There's not a drop of blood in the animal. The
only way you can drain an animal of blood is (to cut into
it--R.F.) with the heart still pumping,' Yvonne said."
   "The cuts were very precise, as if made by a surgeon,
she said."
   "'You don't know who you're dealing with...the
average wild and wooly neighbourhood brat wouldn't be
capable of doing it,' she said."
   "Gordon and Yvonne called Fern Belzil, an Alberta-
based investigator of unexplained deaths who has been
studying cow mutilations for five years, for help. Belzil
has studied 100 cases, two-thirds of which remain
unexplained."
   "'I'm not saying it's aliens...a lot points toward
aliens, but there is no proof,' he said."
   "Belzil said he has never encountered any evidence
pointing to who or what is likely the cause."
   "'It's a real mystery,' he said." (See the Winnipeg
Sun for April 29, 2004, "Cow cut, drained in Arborg."
Many thanks to Robert Fischer for this newspaper article.)


MORE UFOs SIGHTED
IN IRAN

   "More colorful unidentified flying objects have been
spotted" in Iran "beaming out green, red, blue and purple
lights in the Caspian Sea region of Golestan."
   Iranian newspapers "reported hundreds of people
running out into the streets on the evening of Tuesday,
April 27, 2004, to catch a glimpse of the bright
extraterrestrial light."
   Eight towns in Golestan reported UFO overflights that
evening, according to IRNA, the official Iranian news
agency.
   "People on the ground saw the brilliant object
dipping in and out of clouds," Iranian ufologist Kufa
Yildaz reported.
   "An (Iranian) Air Force officer of the Revolutionary
Guards was quoted in the newspaper Vagha-ye Etefaghiyeh as
saying Iran's Supreme National Security Council should
investigate whether these visitors from afar have hostile
intent."
   "Sadollah Nasiri-Qeydari, head of the Astronomical
Society of Iran, said the stories were 'unfounded.'"
   "'In my opinion, flying saucers do not exist,' he
said, insisting that his telescope would have picked up
invaders from outer space."
   "'The people who have seen these things are not
experts--farmers, villagers and pilots,' he added."
   "He said what people reported are consistent with the
planet Venus, whose intense light in its current position
would be giving off different hues by filtering through
the atmosphere." (See the Iranian newspaper Vagha-ye
Etefaghiyeh for April 28, 2004, "Strange lights seen over
Golestan." Many thanks to Ayesha al-Khatabi, UFO
Roundup's Middle East correspondent, for this newspaper
article.)


LUMINOUS UFOs SEEN OVER
LALOR PARK, SYDNEY

   More UFOs were reported in Sydney, New South Wales,
the largest city in Australia, last week.
   On Sunday, May 2, 2004, at 12:30 p.m., eyewitness
J.F. saw what "at first we thought appeared to be a star,
but at around 12 o'clock in the arvo (nearly directly
overhead--J.T.). Then my friend saw a red light next to
it but further behind. They hovered for about 60 seconds,
then took off in a northwesterly direction."
   The witnesses were outdoors in Lalor Park, in
Sydney's western suburbs.
   J.F. added, "All the rest that followed were white
lights. Some coming from what looked like the back of the
sun, some from all directions. Some were alone; others in
clusters. I shit you not...there were at least 15 to 20
of them, and I have three witnesses to the account."
   "One (UFO) took over three seconds to complete a span
of the sky, which is pretty (expletive) fast in my books.
I thought we were being raided right then and there."
(Email Form Report)


MAN VIDEOTAPES A UFO
IN MANCHESTER, UK

   On Tuesday, March 23, 2004, at 12:35 p.m., Peter B.
Grant spotted "a shadow on my house in Brooklands,
Manchester, England. This phenomenon had occurred at
several times in the past, and I had the (video) camera in
operation, looking out into the sky from my bedroom."
   "On viewing" the videotape "later that day, "there
was a definite black rectangle which is clearer when
magnified. The tape has been returned to me from MADIT,
whereupon they concluded that it was a UFO. Also, a
letter had been posted to me saying that other anomalous
objects had also been recorded on the videotape."
   "The reason I collect so many is because it's my
hobby. I have also been featured a couple of times in UFO
Magazine." (Email Form Report)


LOW-FLYING YELLOW UFO
SPOTTED IN ARGENTINA

   On Sunday, May 2, 2004, at 11:05 p.m., "a resident of
the barrio Las Gemelas (neighborhood) in Capilla del
Monte," Argentina, "contacted (the UFO group) Proyecto
Catent to report the transit of a yellow light that was
reflected on the treetops and travelling in an east-west
direction, that is to say, from the Sierras toward Dique
El Cajon, at an estimated elevation of 150 meters (500
feet) above ground and not making any noise whatsoever.
The caller's parents were also witnesses to this event."
   "Last week, on Wednesday," April 28, 2004,
"researcher Hector Picco revealed that he had seen a small
white light coming from the Sierras and vanishing into the
rocky floor of an abandoned piece of property adjacent to
his home."
   "A local fisherman said that in the year 1993, while
on a fishing trip with his friends in Dique Los Alzanes
(in the region of La Toma--S.C.) he had seen a UFO with
several lights that went below mountain level between the
Uritorco and the Overo hills." (Muchas gracias a Scott
Corrales y Proyecto Catent para esto informe.)


TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN IN
VARNVILLE, SOUTH CAROLINA

   On Tuesday, April 27, 2004, at 11:35 p.m., Kevin
Delgado reported, "It was a clear night. I was walking my
dog" in Varnville, South Carolina (population 2,074)
"when, all of a sudden, these lights started blinking at a
distance. It looked like it was stopping in the air.
But, all of a sudden, it started to move east very slowly.
The two lights in front of the object were green and red."
   "When it passed almost directly over me, it looked
like three white lights on the bottom, almost forming a
triangular shape. I could not see the lights on the
bottom until it had actually passed by. Then it looked
like it went to the side for a little bit, then back to
the normal position. It kept traveling east very slowly."
   "I could not tell what shape it was. It was a good
500 yards (450 meters) away. It had three white lights on
the bottom of it. It was moving at about 30 to 45 miles
per hour (50 to 72 kilometers per hour--J.T.)."
   Varnville, S.C. is on Route 68 approximately 44 miles
(70 kilometers) north of Savannah, Georgia. (Email Form
Report)


DAYLIGHT DISC CAUGHT ON
VIDEOTAPE IN MISSISSIPPI

   "Wowzers!" exclaimed eyewitness Lisa McDaniel, "I was
checking out the WAPT-TV Weather Cam" in Jackson,
Mississippi (population 184,256) "and I saw this UFO. I
had saved the two pics but unfortunately you can't do that
with a Webcam shot without it automatically refreshing
itself. I have already contacted the (TV) station to see
if they have the still shots, by any chance."
   "At any rate, at 12:15 p.m., (Monday) May 3, 2004,
there was a silver disk over Jackson, Miss., just to the
left of the Standard Life Building (the tallest building
in the pic--L.M.) and about midway up. The second one
(image) was dated 12:21 p.m., so just minutes later, it
was gone. It is a gorgeous, sunny, clear day and not a
cloud in the sky and no rain whatsoever."
   Lisa estimated that the UFO remained hovering for
about six minutes but was unhappy with the fact that she'd
been unable to save the images. "I'm just really
disappointed about this!"
   Jackson is the state capital of Mississippi. (Email
Form Report)



CHUPACABRAS' SKELETONS
DISCOVERED IN CHILE?

   "A group of workers made a strange discovery as they
came across three carcasses of a strange animal while they
worked on a house located on the Calle Condell (street) in
the commune of Providencia" in Chile.
   "The three skeletons at first report were reminiscent
of the feared Chupacabra."
   "'All three were the same, without any front legs.
We were told to dispose of them, but we were stunned and
are still confused. They can't be rabbits by their shape,
the teeth, the long legs, and the fact that they lock
hands,'" the workers told Chilevision Noticias."
   "The animals have skulls similar to a cat's, 15 ribs,
huge fangs separated by a one-centimeter (0.4-inch) gap
and only two hind legs."
   "'We'd all like this to be a Chupacabra or the
offspring of a Chupacabra. I'll be famous, but I don't
know if that would be the case,' the worker said."
   "The skeletons will be examined by veterinarians of
the University of Chile." (See the Chilean newspaper La
Tercera for April 30, 2004, "Chupacabras in Providencia?"
Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para esto
articulo de diario.)


ANOTHER MINI-SUB SUNK
BY A USO?

   Another miniature submarine has disappeared at sea
under mysterious circumstances.
   "The U.S. Navy has called off the search for a
miniature unmanned submarine that vanished during tests
off Norway a week ago, the Norwegian military said
Friday," May 7, 2004.
   "The 11-foot (3.3-meter) long mini-sub, known as a
Battlespace Preparation Autonomous Underwater Vehicle, is
programmed before being launched to search for mines and,
if necessary, to destroy them."
   The BPAUV "did not surface as expected while being
tested during a military exercise last week off Norway,
leadings its mother ship, the USS Swift, to break off from
maneuvers and launch an extensive search."
   Like the similar incident in the Pacific Ocean a few
months ago, the loss of the BPAUV has ufologists wondering
if the mini-sub was destroyed or captured underwater by an
Unidentified Submerged Object (USO). (See the
Minneapolis, Minn. Star-Tribune for May 8, 2004, "Navy
ends search for missing mini-submarine," page 18-A.)


OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLORE
GIANT CRATER ON MARS

   "Perched on the edge of a 430-foot (130-meter) wide
crater, the Mars rover Opportunity has spied a new
treasure trove of rocks that promise to tell a richer,
deeper story of the planet's geological past."
   "At a news conference Thursday," May 6, 2004, "at
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California,
Steven Squyres, the mission's principal investigator,
called a high-resolution color panorama of the crater
'surely the most spectacular image yet from this
mission.'"
   "The photograph of the crater, named Endurance after
Ernest Shackleton's ship in the 1914 expedition to
Antarctica is spectacular not just for 'sheer scenic
grandeur,' Squyres said, but 'also for the scientific
potential that it offers.'"
   "Opportunity will spend several weeks circling the
outside of Endurance as mission managers try to figure out
whether the rover can safely enter it and, more uncertain,
make its way out again."
   "The crater is up to 60 feet (18 meters) deep with
slopes of 20 degrees and steeper. But Squyres said it was
conceivable that Opportunity would be sent in even if the
mission managers were convinced it would be a one-way
trip."
   "The scientists want to examine the crater's bedrock
closeup with a suite of instruments on the rover. The
$835 million mission of Opportunity and Spirit, its twin
on the other side of Mars, is to look for signs that the
planet was once much warmer and wetter than it is today,
perhaps even an environment amenable to life. Both rovers
are able to operate through at least September (2004)."
   "Based on the analysis of bedrock of the small crater
that it landed in, Opportunity has already discovered
compelling evidence that the vast, flat plain known as
Meridiani Planum was once.
   "Opportunity crawled out of the first crater, Eagle,
in March (2004), headed east toward Endurance Crater,
almost half a mile away. It arrived last Friday," May 7,
2004. "Since then, the rover, sitting a foot and a half
from the rim, has been taking photographs and other
measurements."
   "The Endurance crater exposes the same bedrock layers
seen previously, but also reveals deeper layers. 'We see
enormous outcrops,' Squyres said, 'much bigger than
anything we've seen before of layered rock.'"
   "The mineralogy of the lower rock layers appears
markedly different, Squyres said, rich in basalt and
lacking the sulfates seen in the upper layers, and there
are hints in the photographs of large angled layers that
might be the remains of (prehistoric) sand dunes that
turned to stone."
   "'We're going to be looking for evidence of a beach
environment--was there something like that going on?'
Squyres said." (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for
May 7, 2004, "Mars rover considers exploring vast crater,"
page 5A.)



 From the UFO Files...

1973: LAND OF THE YOWIES

   "The rugged eastern mountain ranges of Queensland,"
in Australia, "extending from the Lamington Plateau and
McPherson ranges in the south-eastern border country all
the way up to Cape York, still contain many vast regions
of inaccessible forest, seldom if ever visited by many."
   These jungles are the home of the Yowie, the
Australian creature that closely approximates North
America's Bigfoot or the Yeti of the Himalayas.
   "It is from these high, imposing, rain-forest-covered
peaks and deep valleys--the fringes of which only hardy
timber-cutters (loggers in the USA--J.T.) and other
bushmen dare to penetrate--that eerie stories of
mysterious manlike giants have been emerging since the
early years of European settlement" in the Nineteenth
Century.
   "Old timers of the Tully district" in the early 1900s
"used to warn travellers not to enter the Cardwell range,
inland from the town, because of the 'great hairy men'
that roamed the mountain country thereabouts."
   "Further south, and north of Townsville on the coast,
lies the town of Innisfail, many of whose inhabitants of
the last 100 years or so have believed in the 'Milla Milla
Monster'--giant hairy hominids that Aborigines and early
settlers alike believed inhabited the rain forests and
mountains of the region."
   "The 'hairy men' of the Innisfail district have been
known collectively as the Milla Milla Monster since the
many reports of their activities were rife" in the latter
part of the Nineteenth Century.
   "During 1990, two campers found huge footprints of
one of these monstrous man-beasts near Milla Milla, for a
time reviving many of the old stories."
   "Earlier, in July 1973, Innisfail residents were
alarmed when Bill Towns, a bushwalker, and 'Mark,' a mate,
sighted a group of primitive-looking hominids comprising a
small male, a larger seven-foot (2.3-meter) male, as well
as a small female and a larger, seven-foot female moving
through a rain forest late one afternoon."
   "This is what happened in Bill's own words:"
   "'We were hiking through forest on the edge of a
sugar-cane field above an embankment next to a creek.
Mark suddenly stopped me. 'Quick, ahead of you,' he
said.'"
   "'There was something moving in the bushes near us
next to the track ( trail in the USA--J.T.). Then, barely
a few feet away, a large hairy male creature emerged onto
the track, pushing aside the foliage on either side as it
did so.'"
   "'We were terrified and stood fixed to the spot as
the creature, a seven-foot male with large genitals
visible, looked at us, then slid down the embankment and
into the creek. As it stood in the creek, it let out a
loud howling sound towards the forest behind us.'"
   "'As he did so, a smaller male appeared of about five
foot (1.3 meters) height and then a female of about seven
feet (2.3 meters), and a smaller five-foot female, all of
whom assembled on the opposite bank of the creek, looked
up at us, then ran off up the bank and into forest cover.
The adult and smaller males then re-appeared and began
screeching at us.'"
   "'By now we were looking about us for some large
pieces of wood with which to defend ourselves. The big
muscular male was by now screeching all the more and
shaking a tree with rage. He then dashed back along the
creek towards us, and we ran off in terror. However, he
may have only wanted to frighten us off, as he did not
climb the embankment.'"
   "Freshly-made footprints of immense size were claimed
found in the forest on the edge of Tully township on
numerous occasions throughout the 1960s and the 1970s."
   "But then, hairy man-beasts are nothing new to the
local residents. Back in 1876, a two-legged, five-foot-
tall manlike creature approached a survey party outside
Tully and roared at them. The incident was the subject of
an official report." (See the book Mysterious Australia
by Rex Gilroy, NEXUS Publishing, Mapleton, Queensland,
Australia, 1995, pages 224 to 227.)


Report From the Editor:
   On Sunday, May 9, 2004, I took a break from writing
this week's issue and journeyed to Mariner Mall in
Superior, Wisconsin to catch the new horror-adventure
movie Van Helsing. I thought, Sunday afternoon, the
matinee show, I'd have the theater to myself. Boy, was I
wrong! I got there twenty minutes before showtime, and
the seats were already 75 percent full.
   And no wonder! This movie is just as good as last
year's X2: The X-Men United. The film features three of
Universal's most famous monsters--Count Dracula, the
Wolfman and Frankenstein--all pitted against filmdom's
latest hero, vampire hunter Gabriel Van Helsing. The
action and pacing never let up, and the computer-generated
imagery will boggle the mind.
   Just a couple of comments.
   To parents of our youngest readers: the CGI-images of
the werewolves and Count Dracula and his brides in their
Nosferatu form are extremely realistic and may trigger
nightmares. So check it out yourself before you let the
under-10s go.
   To the film's editors: Nice scene of the count
romancing Gypsy princess Anna Valerious at the masked ball
in Budapest. Unfortunately, later on in the film, it's
revealed that Dracula is a son of the House of Valerious.
Which means he was dirty-dancing with his umpty-times-
great-niece. Ooops!
   If this is an example of what's coming, we're going
to have a great sci-fi summer movie season.

   And we'll be back next week with more UFO, Fortean
and paranormal news from around the planet Earth--and
occasionally, Mars--brought to you by "the paper that goes
home--UFO Roundup." See you next time!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers.
If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received
the bulletin in error, please write to:

 <webmaster.nul>

With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

             Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Adams

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:14:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:04:02 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Adams


>From: Sue Strickland <strick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 13:54:53 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

<snip>

>>>>Source: SpaceDaily.Com
>>>>http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zv.html
>>>>TERRADAILY

>>>>UFOs, Abductions, And Ancient Astronauts

>>>>05-04-04

>>>>by Ben Bova

>Gentlemen:

<snip>

>I have little doubt that it will change in the next 50,
>unless of course, the aliens prove to be correct in their
>projected warnings. I have a feeling that those predictions will
>be down-played and "ignorance of consequences," will be used as
>a viable excuse for not doing exactly what we know we must do to
>survive as a species. If ignorance cannot be used as an excuse
>for paying inappropriate taxes, how do we render to Caesar what
>is his if he pretends he doesn't know what is his? Rome fell.
>What's going to be the world's final excuse? Ignorance? Groan! I
>hope we can do better than that.

>I guess I'll get off my soap box now.

>Hugs,

>Sue Strickland
>ex-abductee

Hi Sue. Nice writing. Just wondering though. How can one be an
"x-abductee"?

Brian Adams







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                  11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:29:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:06:32 -0400
Subject: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video



SOURCE: EFE News Agency
DATE: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:20 AM

MEXICO (EFE) - In an unprecedented move for this country - and
perhaps the whole world - military authorities have made public
a video showing 11 unidentified flying objects (UFOs) captured
by an aircraft belonging to the Secretariat of National Defense
(SEDENA). This video shall be presented today by journalist and
UFO researcher Jaime Maussan.

In an exclusive interview with the La Prensa newspaper, Maussan
stated that the Secretary of National Defense himself, Ricardo
Clemente Vega Garcia, authorized the broadcast of this material
to both domestic and foreign news media.

According to the researcher, the encounter occurred on March 5,
when an aircraft belonging to the Mexican Air Force, a Merlin
C26/A, was engaeed in drug interdiction patrols. At around 17:00
hours it detected the presence of 11 objects following it.

The routine flight took place between Copalar, Chiapas and the
State of Campeche. The encounter took place near Ciudad del
Carmen, Campeche. It was there that the aircraft, belonging to
the 501st Air Squadron was performing its routine patrol when it
suddenly detected the presence of an object on its radar at an
elevation of 3500 meters, as well as through its infrared
equipment (FLIR)..

The airplane immedately pursued the object, which according to
the video footage, lost itself in the clouds. Minutes later, the
presence of other objects - for a total of 11 - was detected.
They followed the aircraft and surrounded it.

These UFOs were captured on radar and by the FLIR gear. However,
they were never seen by the aircrew despite having been two
miles distant from the aircraft at one point. The crew consisted
of eight monitoring specialists, among them the pilot, Maj.
Magdaleno Casta=F1=F3n Mu=F1oz, radar operator Lt. Germ=E1n Martin
Ramirez and FLIR operator Mario Adrian V=E1zquez Tellez. These
military men were interviewed and claimed having never seen a
similar phenomenon, since the speed and movements detected by
radar confirmed the fact that the [objects] were not aircraft.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2004. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                    Big Brouhaha Over Alleged UFO Footage

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:48:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:08:13 -0400
Subject: Big Brouhaha Over Alleged UFO Footage


Source: IOL

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=122&art_id=qw1084294082176B252&set_id=1

05-11-04

Big Brouhaha Over Alleged UFO Footage


Mexico City - Mexico's largest television network on Monday and
Tuesday broadcast footage taken by air force pilots of what they
say are unidentified flying objects (UFOs).

The footage shows bright lights with "movements and
characteristics that do not have - up to now - a scientific
explanation," according to the Televisa network.

The air force pilots are heard expressing amazement on the tape.

A frame-by-frame analysis shows 16 UFOs, according to the
network.

Televisa said the film was taken with an infrared camera and
there are no alterations.

"It is one of the most important film documents we have been
able to access, especially because it comes from an official
source," said Jaime Mausan, a journalist who has been tracking
the UFO phenomenon for more than 25 years.

The daily La Jornada on Tuesday however dismissed the brouhaha
as "circus".

On January 31 two Mexican air force photographers said they
videotaped what they believed were eight UFOs that overflew
Mexico City and the city's international airport for several
hours. - Sapa-AFP











   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                Mexican Military Acknowledges UFOs In Mexico

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:49:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:10:42 -0400
Subject: Mexican Military Acknowledges UFOs In Mexico


Mexican Department of Defense acknowledge UFOs in Mexico

By Santiago Yturria

The UFO Phenomenon in Mexico has been recognized as a fact in an
historic and unprecedent decision taken by the mexican
Department of Defense under his Secretary of Defense General
Clemente Vega Garcia, commander of all armed forces in this
country.

The insolit meassure that will change history here in Mexico was
the result of a high level incident in wich a mexican Air Force
airplane, military pilots and personal were involved in a
situation with several UFOs while doing a routinary surveillance
antinarcotics operation to detect a drug smuggling flight.

The news was released last night, Sunday May 9, 2004 by Jaime
Maussan, researcher and tv journalist during the tv show Los
Grandes Misterios del Tercer Milenio (Great Misteries of the
Third Millenium) broadcast by mexican tv network Multimedios
Television in the city of Monterrey, N.L.

Jaime Maussan announced that on Tuesday May 11 there will be an
international press conference to present the case and the
investigation made by the Department fo Defense along with
Maussan's research team in an unprecedent colaboration. The
press conference will take place at the Hotel Sevilla Palace in
Mexico city at 11:00 AM were all the international media
representatives have been invited. Previously on Monday's night
an advance report will be broadcast on national television
newscast.

All the facts and materials of the investigation will be
presented at the conference including the official footages by
the Air Force as well as interviews with the pilots and personal
involved in the amazing incident.

THE FACTS:

On April 20, 2004 Jaime Maussan was contacted by a high officer
of the Department of Defense to have a private meeting and
discuss a subject of a high relevant matter. The next day
Maussan met General Clemente Vega Garcia, Secretary of Defense
and his major staff and was informed about an incident that took
place on March 5, 2004 on the aerial space of Ciudad del Carmen,
Campeche where an Air Force Merl=EDn C26A Bimotor airplane was
doing a routinary flight to detect a smuggling drug airplane
during an antinarcotics operation.

The Merlin C26A was equipped with a high tech advanced digital
equipment to register and record all the activities during the
operation. Powerful sensor detectors like a FLIR STAR ZAPPHIR II
and a RADAR AN/PS 143 BRAVO VICTOR 3 were being used by
qualified personal aboard the airplane and all the operation was
being recorded both in normal and infrared mode.

The airplane was under the command of Mayor Magdaleno Jasso
N=FA=F1ez. The FLIR operator was Lt. Mario Adri=E1n V=E1zquez and the
RADAR operator Lt. German Ramirez, all of them members of the
501 Aerial Squadron.

This airplane is programmed only for surveillance and detection
procedures, not for interception or combat maneuvres. Their duty
is to detect and identify drug dealers filghts and then
inmediately report them to the base where combat planes are
scrambled to intercept those narcotics smugglers.

At aproximately 17:00 PM the Merlin C26A detected an unknown
traffic at 10,500 feet over Ciudad del Carmen, Campeche airspace
and according to the protocol and suspecting a drug dealer
airplane Mayor Magdaleno Jasso made a maneuver to approach the
unidentified traffic at certain range to get a close look and
record the target with their equipment. At the same time Mayor
Jasso reported by radio to the base that a posible suspect was
detected requesting the interceptor planes to be in alert
condition.

The RADAR AN/PS 143 BRAVO VICTOR 3 was detecting the unknown
traffic and the FLIR STAR ZAPPHIR II was recording the object in
infrared. As the Merlin C26A tried to approach the unknown
traffic to make a visual identification it suddenly in a
surprising maneuver escaped flying away at tremendous speed. By
this time Mayor Jasso tried to persecute the target but it was
very fast. All this was being recorded by the FLAIR and also the
radio conversations with the base describing the inexpected
maneuver of the unknown. However the C26A still have not made
visual contact with the unknown object.

Just some moments passed when suddenly the unknown object
returned and began following the Merlin C26A in a surprising
situation. This was detected by the RADAR and the FLIR while the
personal aboard were trying to make visual contact of the
unidentified traffic now following them. In seconds the
equipment detected now not only one but two traffics following
them. The images in both RADAR and the FLIR were clear and
unmistakable. But both pilot and personal still could'nt have
visual contact with these two traffics following them adding a
great suspense to this disconcerting situation.

Mayor Magdaleno Jasso reported to the base the insolit incident
that was taking place giving detail of all the informations
registered by the equipment while keep trying to make visual
contact of the unknowns. The FLIR kept recording in infrared
every movement made by the two unknown objects that seemed to be
keeping their distance from the C26A but still following it. The
personal aboard the Merlin C26A were confused and disconcerted
seeing the images on the FLIR and the RADAR asking themselves
what was going on with this insolit situation.

THE INCIDENT TURNS MORE DRAMATIC

But the stressing moment that the C26A crew were passing through
was just the beguinning of something more dramatic that will
turn their undesirable experience into a real nightmare.

Some minutes passed while the mexican Air Force Merlin C26A crew
continued making maneuvers to have a visual contact of the
unknowns because despite both RADAR and FLIR were showing
perfectly clear both unidentified objects for unexplained
reasons there was not a visual contact even that the objects by
this time were at close range.

It was during this round and round maneuvers to identify these
two objects that something amazing happened. In a matter of
seconds more unknown objects arrived to the scene and the
disconcert of the C26A crew was total.

The RADAR and the FLIR detected immediately the presence of nine
new objects of the same size and characteristics, unknown
objects that arrived to the scene surprisingly like coming from
nowhere. Now the situation has entered into a high level of
danger so Mayor Magdaleno Jasso reported by radio to the base
this new situation requesting instructions.

But the most insolit thing was that even that there were eleven
unknown objects close to them still the crew could'nt see them,
no visual contact with the unknowns was posible for some reason
never experienced before by these high trained men. However the
high tech sophisticated equipment and sensors were not lying,
there were eleven targets outside them with unpredictable
intentions.

At the middle of a complete confusion and disconcert among the
C26A crew the unknown objects suddenly made a maneuver
surrounding the mexican Air Force airplane in a circle at close
range. The RADAR and FLIR presented an insolit image of an
eleven objects near by in a circle formation around the Merlin
C26A. The situation turned out of control.

Mayor Magdaleno Jasso reported to the base that the C26A
situation was now in red alert, surrounded by eleven mysterious
round shaped objects camouflaged with a certain unknown advanced
technology that avoid any visual contact of them. However Mayor
Jasso kept the calm as well as the crew who were working fast
meassuring and recording every detail of this unique incident
conscientious of their duty as military and trained men.

Confronting this situation surrounded by unidentified objects in
an unpredictable ending Mayor Magdaleno Jasso took the decision
of turning out all the airplane lights and wait to see what
happened. Moments of high suspense lived by the crew while the
FLIR was recording the images of those bright objects even that
visual contact was not posible, moments of silence and
uncertainty.

The C26A crew kept calmed doing their duty, documenting every
moment of the strange incident while Mayor Jasso continued in
contact with the base. After some stressing minutes the eleven
objects dissapeared giving an end to the strange experience that
these members of the 501 Aerial Squadron just lived. The Merlin
C26A returned safe to the Air Force Base and Mayor Magdaleno
Jasso prepared a complete report of the incident along with the
C26A crew.

The Secretary of the Defense took notice of Mayor Jasso's report
and began a full investigation studying and evaluating every
element of the case. Statements of the crew, images, lectures,
meassurements of all the equipment as well as a complete
evaluation of the meteorological data . The incident was taken
very seriously by the Department of Defense Staff and after
several weeks of investigation they decided under the command of
General Clemente Vega Garcia to contact researcher and tv
journalist Jaime Maussan for a special colaboration in this
investigation as an experienced researcher in these matters.

On April 22, 2004 General Clemente Vega, Secretary of Defense
gave Jaime Maussan a copy of all the tapes and data collected by
the Merlin C26A during the incident for study, evaluation and
analisis by Maussan's research team as complement of this
investigation and as an external colaborating source trying to
establish a definition of the posible motives and consequences
of the March 5, 2004 incident.

General Vega as well as his staff were very open to discuss the
subject and showed their legitimate interest in conducting this
investigation in order to establish the truth of what happened.
General Vega authorized the Merlin C26A crew to give Jaime
Maussan the interviews needed without any censorship, giving all
the facilities to present this case to the mexican people, an
historic and unprecedent decision that will open a new era of
mutual colaboration among the mexican ufologists and the
military forces, a colaboration based in respect and interest to
find the truth of the intense UFO activity we have been
experiencing here in Mexico since the beguinning of the Amazing
Mexican UFO Wave back in July 11, 1991.

This new era of relationship among the mexican UFO witnesses,
skywatchers, ufologists and our military forces will try to
establish and give form to a new legislation in our law system
focused to be prepared for any incident involving these
unidentified flying objects, our people, our comercial and
military airplanes etc. for learning and understanding what are
we going to do and how are we going to confront this reality.


Santiago Yturria
Mexico

TECHNICAL DATA

DATE: March 5, 2004
TIME: 17:00 PM to 17:30 pm
EVENT: On Comision
LOCATION: Aerial Space Ciudad del Carmen, Campeche Mexico at
   10,500 Fts.
COORDINATES: LAT N 18=B0 26.60=B4 : LON W 90=B0 45.69=B4
SENSOR EQUIPMENT: FLIR STAR ZAFIRO II
    RADAR AN/PS 143 BRAVO VICTOR 3
DETECTION RATIO: 50 miles
FLIR RANGE: - 40=B0C till more than 1,500=B0C
CAMERA LENS: GERMANIO
AIRPLANE: Merlin C26A Bimotor

OFFICERS
Navigation Captain: Magdaleno Jasso Nu=F1ez
FLIR Operator:      Lt. Mario Adrian Vasquez
RADAR Operator:     Lt. German Ramirez
Members of the 501 Aerial Squadron

GENERAL CONDITIONS:

The located zone was in optimal meteorological conditions, winds
no bigger than 35 kms./hour, relative humidity of 72% and a
temperature average of 34=B0 C. At 10,500 Fts. temperature average
-27=B0 C and a visibility average of 96%.

The region doesn't register volcanic activity nor teutonics
movements. There was not detection of electric current storage
and distribution of

importance.

On the basis of the previous thing there were not found sources
of electric magnetic phenomenons by electric centrals or sismic
movements. There were not found posibilities of any Ball of Fire
effect caused by volcanic activity.

There were not registries of solar storms in that moments or
relevant solar explosions. Therefore the posibilities of
ionization luminic effects like St. Elmo Fire or electric storms
were discarded.

Study and Analisis elaborated by Rodolfo Garrido Cotham
according to the Merlin C26A digital equipment data.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

              Re: UFO & Abduction - Are We An Alien Experiment?

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:04:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:11:50 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO & Abduction - Are We An Alien Experiment?


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:28:12 -0700
>Subject: UFO & Abduction - Are We An Alien Experiment?

>Source:Profindpages.com
>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/11/MN104.htm
>UFO And Abduction Reports - Are We Just An Alien Experiment?

The fossil record would seem to indicate that for a large animal
with a fairly long life cycle, human beings have evolved a bit
more rapidly over the last 50,000 years than one might expect.
Although, what with the climate changes and forced migrations,
and all of that, it was either adapt or die.

Maybe when we get poking around in the human genome a little
deeper we'll find where somebody's been tinkering. Modify a dumb
cold virus and you could mutate half the planet in no time.

There's no real solid evidence presented yet to show we're under
the direct and ongoing control of aliens. Nothing conclusive
that I know of.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 11

                        The March Mexico UFOs Footage

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:29:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:29:23 -0400
Subject: The March Mexico UFOs Footage

http://www.virtuallystrange.com/ufo/mexico/mexico-03-05-04.mpg

Its a shade under 20Mbs


ebk







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                   Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:29:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:29:45 -0400
Subject: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir




Source: ABC NewsOnline

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1106371.htm

05-12-04


Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir

The Mexican Air Force has released footage of what a UFO expert
said were 11 unidentified flying objects (UFOs) picked up by an
infrared camera as they whizzed around a surveillance plane.

Long-time believer in flying saucers, journalist Jaime Maussan,
told a news conference on Tuesday the objects were real and
seemed "intelligent" after they at one point changed direction
and surrounded the plane chasing them.

"They were invisible to the eye but they were there, there is no
doubt about it. They had mass, they had energy and they were
moving about," he said, after showing a 15-minute video he said
the Defence Ministry gave him permission to publicise.

The ministry confirmed to Reuters it had provided the video
filmed by the Air Force on March 5 over the eastern coastal
state of Campeche.

"We are not alone! This is so weird," one of the pilots can be
heard yelling, after the plane's crew switched on an infrared
camera to track the objects first picked up by radar.

The film recorded by a plane looking for drugs trafficking near
the Gulf of Mexico shows 11 objects as blobs of light that hover
in formation or dart about, sometimes disappearing into cloud.

Mexico's most popular nightly news broadcast showed the video on
Monday night.

Interviewed by Mr Maussan on another section of the video, the
pilots said they grew nervous when the objects still invisible
turned back during a chase and surrounded the plane.

"There was a moment when the screens showed they were behind us,
to the left and in front of us. It was at that point that I felt
a bit tense," said Major Magdaleno Castanon.

Mexico has a long history of fanciful UFO sightings, most of
which are dismissed by scientists as space debris, missiles,
weather balloons, natural weather phenomena or hoaxes.

- -Reuters







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                    X-PPAC Congressional Alert - 05-12-04

From: Stephen Bassett  <Disclosure2003.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 01:46:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:32:31 -0400
Subject: X-PPAC Congressional Alert - 05-12-04


X-PPAC
Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political Action Committee

Congressional Alert - Another Shot across the Bow - May 12, 2004
(Past Congressional Alerts archived at: www.x-
ppac.org/Alerts.html)



To: Chief of Staff (all House and Senate offices)

Washington, DC - On Tuesday in Mexico City infrared footage of
lights engaging and surrounding military jets (much in the
manner of the legendary Foo Fighters of World War II) was
released to the public. Notably, this footage was provided to
researcher and journalist Jamie Maussan by the Mexican Defense
Ministry. As reported by the Associated Press:
_______________________

Mexico City - Mexican air force pilots filmed 11 unidentified
flying objects in the skies over southern Campeche state, a
Defence Department spokesman confirmed Tuesday.

A videotape made widely available to the news media Tuesday
shows the bright objects, some sharp points of light and others
like large headlights, moving rapidly in what appears to be a
late-evening sky.

The lights were filmed March 5 by pilots using infrared
equipment. They appeared to be flying at an altitude of about
3,500 metres and allegedly surrounded the air force jet as it
conducted routine anti-drug trafficking vigilance in Campeche.
Only three of the objects showed up on the plane's radar.
________________________

This footage is a fraction of the thousands of photographs and
videos taken of nighttime and daylight disks also observed by
citizens in the skies over Mexico since 1991 - easily the
largest "flap" of sightings in the modern era. Naturally, these
sightings were dismissed by U.S. media, often by reasoning which
could be construed as xenophobic and racist.

It is important that Members of Congress see this release of
evidence by the defense department of a foreign country as a
"shot across the bow" of the United States demonstrating a
growing impatience with the U.S. embargo on the truth of the
extraterrestrial presence. There have been others. In November
of 2002 the United Kingdom's Ministry of Defence made a
substantial release of previously classified documents relating
to the extraordinary events at Bentwaters Air Force Base near
Rendlesham Forest in 1980. In July of 1999 a "non-governmental"
committee (COMETA), notably composed of former French military
and agency officials, released a two-year study, the COMETA
Report, which among other things, clearly indicated the
likelihood of an extraterrestrial explanation for the world wide
sightings and chastised the United States government for its
obdurate and unenlightened position on the matter.

Other nations are losing patience with the U.S. led truth
embargo. One of them is going to break ranks and end this
embargo and take this legacy for itself. The United States
Congress is doing absolutely nothing to assert its prerogatives
in a matter of extreme national significance. It will be
permanently damaged if it does not take action - NOW.

Articles

Associated Press:

www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040511.wufos0511/BNStory/Front/

Reuters:

www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5109891

COMETA Report Article: www.cufos.org/cometa.html

[Note: the Reuters article includes inappropriate language often
used by ignorant reporters and editors to diminish the
significance of the material being covered. This kind of
journalism is the enemy of the truth and of the U. S. Congress.]
__________________________________

The government imposed embargo on the truth of an
extraterrestrial presence will and must end. X-PPAC stands ready
to assist Members and their staff to engage the "politics of
disclosure."

Contact: Stephen Bassett 202-431-2459


___________________________________________________

Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political Action Committee
URL: www.x-ppac.org
E-mail: exppac.nul
Phone: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, Maryland 20814
__________________________________________________









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

               FOIA Appeal Letter To NARA For Canberra Report

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:32:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:42:35 -0400
Subject: FOIA Appeal Letter To NARA For Canberra Report


To: Gary Stern, Esq.
General Counsel
U. S. National Archives and Records Administration
8601 Adelphi Road
College Park, MD 20740-6001

From: Larry W. Bryant
3518 Martha Custis Drive
Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: May 11, 2004

Your Kenneth D. Schlessinger's form-letter response to me of
April 15, 2004 (quoted below) constitutes a tacit, and
illegitimate, denial of my FOIA request of April 1, 2004, and I
hereby appeal his decision not to comply with my request.

I base my appeal on the following rationale:

(1) Mr. Schlessinger errs in asserting that my request pertains
only to a "topic." Rather, it pertains to a well defined 1975
INCIDENT and to all agency-housed RECORDS relating to said
incident as documented by the Canberra-reported "telexes" (aka
TWX's/telegrams/electronic messages) and by any related, yet-to-
surface additional records (e.g., "serious incident reports,"
military-operations/intelligence analyses, CIA-generated
presidential briefing documents, NSA-generated signals-
intelligence reports, diplomatic correspondence, military after-
action reports/studies, and law-enforcement case files). Your
ferreting out those responsive records amounts not to ordinary
library research but to your agency's statutory duty to conduct
a proper, comprehensive records search for any such "essential
evidence." Mr. Schlessinger's arbitrary refusal to proceed with
the requested search offends both the letter and the spirit of
the U. S. Freedom of Information Act, and it must be reversed --
 lest it serve as a model (and incentive) for other agencies to
evade their FOIA responsibility.

(2) As regards Mr. Schlessinger's copping out of his FOIA
responsibility, you, sir, have the statutory duty to compare his
failure with the April 22, 2004, response I've received from
your Mr. David A Pfeiffer, who says he's conducted a (cursory)
search for certain NARA-housed, civilian-agency-generated
records responsive to my request. As anyone can see, this
conflicting decision-making within your agency's administrative
operations bodes ill for not just the fate of my April 1 request
but also, if let to stand, for the credibility and integrity of
those operations in the eyes of the public. You thus
politically cannot afford to deny this appeal.

In your granting of this appeal, I ask that you urge the
archivist of the United States to reverse Mr. Schlessinger's
decision forthwith -- and that the archivist take immediate
steps to prevent any such FOIA impasse in the future.

By snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed printout of this e-
formatted letter.



LARRY W. BRYANT

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq.

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief of http://www.ufocity.com

Chairman, U. S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary

Chairman, Subcommittee on Technology and Information Policy
U.S. House of Representatives

---

Text of Mr. Schlessinger's April 15, 2004, letter To L.W.B.:

From: Kenneth D. Schlessinger; Modern Military Records (NWCTM);
Textual Archives Services Division - U. S. National Archives and
Records Administration -- College Park, MD 20740-6001

TO: Larry W. Bryant

DATE: April 15, 2004

Dear Mr. Bryant:

This is in response to your April 1, 2004, Freedom of
Information Act request (NW 24401). We received your copy in
this office on April 8, 2004.

Your request fails to meet certain tests of the FOIA. You have
stated a topic [i.e., a telex-DOCUMENTED 1975 INCIDENT involving
"hostile aerial craft's" interference with supersecret U. S.
military space satellites -- LWB] rather than describing
specific documents. The Freedom of Information Act does not
obligate federal agencies to do research for the requestor. We
regret that we cannot undertake the extensive research necessary
to identify the exact documents in which you are interested. We
are staffed to assist researchers with their work, but not to
undertake substantive research for them. We will be happy to
make appropriate records and finding aids available in our
research rooms should you have an opportunity to visit the
National Archives.

Should you choose to come to the National Archives to do
research, our records and microfilm publications are available
for consultation without charge in our research rooms. The
National Archives at College Park (Archives II) is located at
8601 Adelphi Road, between Metzerott Road and University
Boulevard/Greenbelt Road, just inside the Beltway between the
New Hampshire Avenue and Route 1 Exits. If you do not have a
research card, you must apply for one in the reception area.
Research room hours (except legal holidays) are 8:45 a.m. to 5
p.m., Monday and Wednesday; 8:45 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Tuesday,
Thursday, and Friday; and 8:45 a.m. to 4:45 p.m. on Saturday.
Please call (301) 837-3510 before 3:30 p.m. Monday through
Friday to request records for evening hours (after 5:00 p.m.)
and Saturdays. No requests for records can be made in the
evenings or on Saturdays. You may want to access the National
Archives website for more information: http://www.archives.gov .

We do not consider this response a denial under the Freedom of
Information Act because we cannot determine without more
specific information whether the records you have requested
exist.


Sincerely,

Kenneth D. Schlessinger








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

               Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:19:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:47:20 -0400
Subject: Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video -


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:29:05 -0400
>Subject: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video

The recent Mexico sighting, which involves an infrared imaging
system made by FLIR Systems (Model Star Sapphire II), could be a
physics breakthrough in the confirmation of UFO radiation in the
non-visible, infrared range. I am aware of only one other case
involving UFO photography that indicates the presence of
infrared radiation. Furthermore, in that case there also seemed
to be a wavelength shift, i.e., a shift of the spectrum being
radiated by the UFO, before it disappeared. I refer to the
sighting on March 12, 1991 in Pensacola, FL.

You can learn the details of this sighting and see the photos
that were taken by going to:

http://brumac.8k.com/GulfBreeze/GBBUBBA.html

You can scroll down several pages to the section entitled
"Invisible Light."

There you will see that 5 photos were taken with infrared sensitive
film.

The first three were taken while the several visual observers saw a
moderately bright red light. These three show a small diameter UFO
image. According to the observers, the light then became dimmer but
turned white before it disappeared. (Turning from red to white was
characteristic of the red light "Bubba" that had been seen many times
before in Gulf Breeze.)

The last two photos show that the UFO image suddenly became much
larger. Since the size of the image of a light source increases
with the amount of radiation emitted by the source, the
increased image size can be interpreted as indicating that the
amount of radiation emitted by the UFO within the sensitive
wavelength range of the film suddenly increased. However, this
increase did not occur in the visible spectrum (400 - 700
nanometers [nm]) or the witnesses would have seen it become
brighter rather than dimmer.

Therefore the increase in radiation must have occurred in the
near infrared range of sensitivity of the film (700 - 900 nm).

This apparent 'spectral shift' suggests that the UFO could
"disappear" by shifting its spectrum from the visible to the
infrared range.

(NOTE: in the discussion presented on the above web site I have
compared the dimming of the light and its change to white with
what would be expected of a hot light source, a so-called "black
body," which, when it turns from red to white in color also
increases the amount of radiation in the visible. This light
source was clearly not simply a heated, glowing object like a
light bulb.)

In the Mexico case the objects were picked up by an infrared
imaging system that is like a TV system, but which is sensitive
to the spectral range of 3,000 to 5,000 nm (3 - 5 micron range).
This is beyond the spectral range of any infrared film, so if,
within the last 57 years, there had been an infrared radiating
UFO that was just "passing by" as someone took a picture using
an ordinary camera, the UFO would not have been seen nor would
it have been detected on film (not even on infrared film).

It has been proposed in the past to set up an infrared search of
the atmosphere for unexpected phenomena such as UFOs, but the
proposal has not been implemented because of the expense of high
quality infrared imaging systems. However, these have been
coming down in price (still expensive, though!) and the Mexico
and Gulf Breeze cases indicate that at least some UFOs can be
detected with infrared devices, so perhaps it is time to act on
this proposal.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                  Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:13:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:51:24 -0400
Subject: Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Groff


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:29:23 -0400
>Subject: UFO UpDate: The March Mexico UFOs Footage

>Jaime Mausson's piece on the March 5, 11 UFOs video
>over Mexico is available for viewing at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.com/ufo/mexico/mexico-03-05-04.mpg

>Its a shade under 20Mbs

>ebk

Hang on a minute. I have to pick my jaw up off the floor.

Bless the Mexican Airforce for their courage and openness. I
wonder how many such videos are in the hands of other Airforces
around the world.


Terry

"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas
from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and
refracted the light from Venus" - Agent "K"






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                       Lang Lake Near Sudbury Ontario

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:31:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:00:20 -0400
Subject: Lang Lake Near Sudbury Ontario


HBCC UFO Note: There have been a rash of sighting reports in
certain areas in Ontario, Canada which I have been receiving
and working on.

On May 8, 2004 an area witnesses watched some unusual objects
and captured on video tape. Tonight a witness, near Sudbury,
sent me an email report I gave him a call to get the details on
what he and his wife witnessed. Another amazing sighting due to
what the object eventually did.

At first I thought it may have been a planet or bright star due
to the description of what it did, but nope, planets and star
don't shoot off and out of sight within 2 seconds. More reports
to type up and will be posted later on.

As soon as my arm smartens up I will write up a full report on
what has been taking place since April in around the Ontario
area.

---

Lang Lake, Ontario (1hr west of Sudbury)

Date: May 8, 2004
Time: Approx: 9:45 p.m.

Has anyone reported to have seen a UFO in the northwestern sky
from the Sudbury Ont.area on Sat May 8/2004.At approx. 9:45 p.m.

Both my wife and I were at camp on Lang lake 1hr west of Sudbury

My wife noticed a bright shiny object in the north western sky.

She stared at it for awhile and she said it went away. After a
while I noticed a bright light in the same spot and she told me
then she had seen it earlier. At first I thought it was a planet
because it was the brightest light I had ever seen. I noticed
that the big dipper was right overhead. It was'nt the north
star. It disappeared then a few minutes later it came back. I
thought the planet was behind a cloud. The odd part there wasn't
a cloud in the sky anywhere. I stared at it for ten minutes then
I found a fixed spot to get my bearings. What I found that this
planet I thought was moving in the same rotation as the earth
but much faster. I timed it for approx ten minutes and then it
moved into infinity within 2 seconds into deep space.While I was
watching I had a pair of binoculars . What I thought was a
planet changed colors so many I can't tell what color it was.

Most of the time I thought I was looking at a planet but only
one thing happened it did not move like one.This UFO was the
fastest moving object I had ever witnessed. It had suddenly
stopped and flew into infinity at a 90 deg angle away from the
earth in a matter of seconds.

---


Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -

From: Sue Strickland <strick.nul>
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 00:53:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:05:15 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts -


>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:14:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>From: Sue Strickland <strick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 13:54:53 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts
>>Sue Strickland
>>ex-abductee

>Hi Sue. Nice writing. Just wondering though. How can one be an
>"x-abductee"?


Hi Brian et al,

I hope I am an ex-abductee. It's been a while since they've
visited...  April, 1997. So, if they don't show up this year...  I
hope to toss out their memory by writing the "fictional" book,
along with my old tax records. For you see, their mental command
to "not talk with anyone about what I've seen or experienced,"
has been only partially effective.

Historially, my ability to remember in detail my experiences
with them presented an additional challenge. I find that now, if
I write or discuss various experiences, the vivid dates, times,
and verbatum conversations are fading. I assume writing becomes
a carthartic outlet, and the trauma is lessened, thereby
allowing the memories to fade. (It ain't nearly fast enough for
me, Brian.) So, it appears they have added a slight "twist" to
the mental command... if I write and tell... I forget. So, they
are not likely to visit as often as they did, because they don't
want to reinforce or renew past memories nor present new ones.
They want me to forget... like so many other abductees. Fine
with me. Just let me get 'em down on paper. That's the way I
figure it.

I may be all wet, 'cause I have had one heck of a time over the
years trying to figure out any of their motives for many of
their inconsistently weird behaviors! One thing for sure. They
have one heck of a technologically advanced brain, and they like
to teach and share. But, they are stunted emotionally at about
age 14, have no understanding of cultural humor; and, they hide
their emotions well. That, let me tell you, is a wee bit
unnerving, having raised 2 sons, 1 step-son and 1 step-daughter.
Mine are all sane, and mature members of society now. I can't
say the same for "them."

How'd you like to be "ruled" by a bunch of technologically
advanced, emotionally immature teenagers with raging hormones?
I've been around a lot of teenagers, including a lot of aliens
for a lot of years. Hopefully, they'll stay away now. I got over
the "empty nest syndrome" at age 13, when they said they
wouldn't be back. They lie a lot, too.


Sue Strickland
Ex-Abuductee








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:41:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:08:36 -0400
Subject: Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Maccabee


I downloaded the specifications for the infrared camera Star
Sapphire II from the web site of FLIR Systems Corp. in Portland,
Oregon. I then contacted FLIR sysems and got some information on
the symbols on the display. Will be reporting on this.

The radar may be AN/APS-143(V)3 which can be found on the web.
It is an ocean surveillance radar with a range of 200 miles. I
could find no technical details and no mention of the
manufacturer.

Any List Member out there with any information on the radar?








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                     Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal"

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:15:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:15:37 -0400
Subject: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal"




Source: CTV Canada

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1084326182029_16/?hub=SciTec
h

05-11-04

Mexican UFO Sighting No Big Deal: Analyst

CTV.ca News Staff

Mexico's Defence Department is confirming that images of 11
unidentified flying objects were captured by Mexican air force
pilots.

But a Canadian space observer says that while the objects are
unidentified, one cannot go much further than that.

"The question is what kind of object or objects are these," Ivan
Semeniuk of the Discovery Channel told CTV Newsnet.

A videotape made available to the media Tuesday showed bright
objects, some like sharp points and others more like headlights,
moving rapidly.

The images were taken March 5 by pilots using infrared
equipment. They were conducting an otherwise normal anti-drug
trafficking surveillance flight over the state of Campeche.

Reports indicate the lights surrounded the plane. Only three
objects showed up on the aircraft's radar.

"... We are looking at flashing lights and they interview the
pilot; he speaks about these things tracking along with him and
moving at extremely high speeds," Semeniuk said.

"That is where the skepticism kicks in: No way to know how are
away these things are or in fact how fast they were moving."

Semeniuk said the images aren't that different from the debris
of the Mir spacecraft returning to earth.

Asked what test would have to be applied to determine whether
such a UFO flight was conducted by extra-terrestrial beings,
Semeniuk said there are two:

"One is that there has to be no other explanation and the second
is that it has to be seen by large numbers of credible
observers."

With the Mexican sighting, there is only one point of view, "so
this doesn't come out any stronger than numerous other reports
that we have seen like this in the past," he said.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                Re: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:14:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:19:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir -


>Source: ABC NewsOnline

>http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1106371.htm

>05-12-04

>Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir

<snip>

>Mexico has a long history of fanciful UFO sightings, most of
>which are dismissed by scientists as space debris, missiles,
>weather balloons, natural weather phenomena or hoaxes.

>- -Reuters


Mexico, actually less than "fanciful," has a long history of
bravely reporting what they're seeing in the skies over their
heads and remain gratifyingly unconcerned with the
intellectually constipated and conflicted attitudes of their
less brave neighbors to the North! And, forgetting for a moment
that I'm certain that the definition of "most" (in the
preceding) can be easily picked apart and otherwise devalued, it
remains that it is not 'everything' that can be dismissed by
less than intrepid (Anglo?) 'scientists' as "...space debris,
missiles, weather balloons, natural weather phenomena or
hoaxes."

Sorry, ABC NewsOnline, the days are over when people South of
the border can be dismissed and derided as bean-eatingly
credulous taco-benders and superstitious sombrero wearers! Get
with it or be left behind by it, gringo, you smug pendaho
bastard! Sneer at your peril!

...Hear that, "Dan"?

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                              Mexico UFO Video

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:04:48 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:23:52 -0400
Subject: Mexico UFO Video


I was just interviewed by CTV CANADA AM regarding Jaime
Maussan's news conference in Mexico about the video obtained on
March 5, 2004, by Mexican AF officers. I have now seen the
Mexican AF video and have to say that I'm reasonably impressed.

According to what's been posted on UpDates, Rense and elsewhere,
the Mexican DoD verifies the video and admits it was taken by
some of its AF officers while on routine drug trafficking
patrol.

The video was shot with night vison lenses, and shows
several bright sources moving in formation behind (definitely
not in front of) clouds. If the Mexican government insists they
are puzzled by the multiple-witness, long-duration video and
that the objects are not drug traffickers fleeing the
authorities, then it appears to be a good case.

However, I have already been informed that CTV has chosen to
have an astronomer named Paul Delaney as a guest instead of me.
My guess is he'll dismiss the UFO video out of hand.

Oh, well. That's media for you.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:34:04 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:37:14 -0400
Subject: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs


Dear List,

An auto-translationn (world.altavista.com) of Jaime Maussan's
Spanish page on the March 2004 Mexican Airforce sighting of
11 UFOs at:

http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm

is now available in PDF format:

http://mufon-ces.org/docs/040305mexicoufos.pdf


Best,

Hannes
MUFON-CES.org
Germany








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                 Mexico's Department Of Defense Releases UFO

From: Michael E. Salla <exopolitics.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 05:36:04 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:47:43 -0400
Subject: Mexico's Department Of Defense Releases UFO


[Non-Subscriber Post]

Mexico's Department of Defense Releases UFO Information -
Evidence of a International Rift in the Management of
UFOs/Extraterrestrial Affairs?

Michael E. Salla, PhD

On Tuesday, May 11, 2004, an international press conference was
held to announce the findings of a joint official and private
effort to investigate a UFO sighting. What is remarkable in the
press conference is that Department of Defense collaborated with
a top Mexican UFO researcher, Jaime Maussan, in the release of
information concerning the appearance of up to 11 UFO's in the
vicinity of a Mexican Air force flight that was on a drug
surveillance mission on March 5, 2004. Using infrared cameras
and radar tracking, the eight-man crew of the Merlin C26/A
flight was able to monitor the UFOs, which at one point formed a
circle around the flight. In investigating the incident, the Air
force contacted Jaime Maussan and asked him to participate in
the inquiry.

The release of data on the UFOs taken by a Mexican Air force
crew was certainly a coup for Maussan who released the
information in the popular television program 'Great Mysteries
of the Third Millennium' on May 9, 2004. Maussan was initially
contacted on April 20, by the Department of Defense and had a
meeting the next day with General Clemente Vega Garcia,
Secretary of Defense and his senior officials. The Secretary of
Defense went further however than simply informing Maussan of
the incident. General Clemente released film and other data of
the incident to Maussan that he could investigate with his own
independent research team. The Department of Defense confirmed
to international media outlets such as Reuters in a May 11 Press
Conference that it had handed over the film and data to Maussan.
This was certainly unprecedented and signaled a major new
approach to dealing with the UFO phenomenon by a major world
government.

Up to the present time, there appears to have been a well-
coordinated international effort in managing UFO sightings and
reports of UFO crashes. These have typically been handled in a
way suggesting a sophisticated global system for dealing with
UFO sightings, and even collecting the remains of crashed UFOs,
without witnesses having much credibility before the mass media.
This global management system has prevented governmental
releases of UFO information to the general public and
international media. Whatever releases did occur typically
involved private civilians rather than military personnel in
their official capacities revealing UFO information. In the US,
military personnel have been legally proscribed from
participating in the release of information of UFO sightings
according to military regulations described in the Joint Army
Navy Air Publication (JANAP) 146 released in 1953. Similar
provisions are found in the British Ministry of Defense and
other major nations that have had to deal with the UFO
phenomenon, and/or cooperate closely with the US.

This official international system for repressing UFO reports
suffered a significant setback in 1999 with the release of a
French government supported study of the UFO phenomenon. The
COMETA Report comprised former top military officials and found
credible evidence to support the existence of UFOs as phenomenon
that required serious political attention. The COMETA report was
not widely covered in the US but signaled that major nations
differed in how much information they should release to their
general publics. In December 2002, the British Ministry of
Defense released a file on the Rendlesham UFO incident of 1980
describing one of the most well document UFO sightings in
British history. Significantly, the US military has not released
its own files of the incident despite having played a leading
investigatory role at Rendlesham. The respective official
positions over the Rendlesham files suggests a clear difference
of opinion between the British and US military officials over
the extent to which UFO information will be released to the
general public and the mass media.

The participation of the Mexican Department of Defense in
collaborating with Maussan in releasing information on a
contemporary UFO sighting is unprecedented. This is a
significant development that goes even further than the COMETA
report in challenging the non-disclosure position supported by
the US government that apparently plays a major role in the
international management system in place for UFO
sightings/crashes. The Mexican Department of Defense effort in
collaborating with Maussan simultaneously achieves a number of
things. First, it helps legitimate research into the UFO
phenomenon that now has official government support as a
credible field of study at least in Mexico. Second, it
legitimates the investigatory skills and experiences of private
Mexican researchers such as Maussan. Third, it comes at a time
of great international friction over the war in Iraq suggesting
that this Mexican initiative marks a major rupture in the de
facto global management system for UFOs that echoes global
dissent over US policies in Iraq. If the COMETA report and the
release of the Rendlesham files are solid indicators of the
European position towards UFO disclosure, then it appears that
the US is becoming increasingly isolated in its strict non-
disclosure policy.

If indeed there is a major rift in the global management system
over the rate and extent to which disclosure of UFOs sightings
and/or UFO evidence is made to the general public of major
states, then it may be predicted that further disclosures by
other governments are likely. It may be concluded that the
Mexican Department of Defense collaboration with private UFO
researchers heralds a major new phase in the UFO phenomenon.
With a more integrated global media and Internet, it will be
very difficult if impossible for the mass media in the US to
ignore UFO developments in other countries. If major world
governments begin disclosing information concerning contemporary
UFO sightings, then it may be predicted that the non-disclosure
policy in place for over 50 years may soon come to an end. This
would usher in the age of exopolitics where the political
implications of an extraterrestrial presence would predictably
dominate global politics.

Michael E.Salla, PhD
May 12, 2004
www.exopolitics.org
exopolitics.nul

References:
"Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir,"
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5109891
"Mexican DOD Acknowledges UFOs In Mexico," http://rense.com/general52/deff.htm
"COMETA Report," http://www.cufos.org/cometa.html
"Rendlesham UFO Incident," http://www.scifi.com/rendlesham/

Forward as you wish. Permission is granted to circulate among private individual
s and groups, post on all Internet sites and publish in full in all not-for-prof
it publications. Contact author for all other rights, which are reserved.







Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

              Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:26:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:58:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Maccabee


>Source: CTV Canada

>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1084326182029_16/?hub=SciTe
ch

>05-11-04

>Mexican UFO Sighting No Big Deal: Analyst

>CTV.ca News Staff

>Mexico's Defence Department is confirming that images of 11
>unidentified flying objects were captured by Mexican air force
>pilots.

>But a Canadian space observer says that while the objects are
>unidentified, one cannot go much further than that.

>"The question is what kind of object or objects are these," Ivan
>Semeniuk of the Discovery Channel told CTV Newsnet.

>A videotape made available to the media Tuesday showed bright
>objects, some like sharp points and others more like headlights,
>moving rapidly.

>The images were taken March 5 by pilots using infrared
>equipment. They were conducting an otherwise normal anti-drug
>trafficking surveillance flight over the state of Campeche.

>Reports indicate the lights surrounded the plane. Only three
>objects showed up on the aircraft's radar.

>"... We are looking at flashing lights and they interview the
>pilot; he speaks about these things tracking along with him and
>moving at extremely high speeds," Semeniuk said.

>"That is where the skepticism kicks in: No way to know how are
>away these things are or in fact how fast they were moving."

Idiot! (Pardon my French!) See below.

>Semeniuk said the images aren't that different from the debris
>of the Mir spacecraft returning to earth.

Idiot!!! Pardon... etc.

>Asked what test would have to be applied to determine whether
>such a UFO flight was conducted by extra-terrestrial beings,
>Semeniuk said there are two:

>"One is that there has to be no other explanation and the second
>is that it has to be seen by large numbers of credible
>observers."

>With the Mexican sighting, there is only one point of view, "so
>this doesn't come out any stronger than numerous other reports
>that we have seen like this in the past," he said.

Why "idiot!"?

He says there is "no way" to know how far away these things
are."  Well, about the radar report? According to the most
recent news story (rense.com) at one time they were 2 miles
away.

Why "Idiot!!!"?

He says the images aren't that different from the debris of the
MIR spacecraft returning to earth which would resemble
meteors.... but the difference is this:

These objects/lights were picked up by an infrared sensitive
system operating in the 3-5 micron range whereas the video
imagery Semeniuk refers to is based on visible light.  The
comparison he makes here is superficial and ignores one of the
key questions raised by this sighting: what can radiate
substantial power (hundreds of watts?) in the 3-5 micron
wavelength band while NOT radiating enough in the visible band
(0.4 - 0.7 microns) for the crew of the plane to see anything?

A heated body like a meteor (or the hot air plasma around it)
that radiates power in the infrared will also radiate in the
visible (which is why people can see it.) The main point is
_nothing_ should be "out there" causing any images on the IR
camera, to say nothing of very bright (saturated?) images of
things that are also detected (some of them at least) on radar
and also clearly travel with the airplane but were _not_ seen
by the crew _despite_ optimum daylight conditions.

One more time for goos measure: Idiot!









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                       Re: Mexico UFO Video - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:32:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:36:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Video - Maccabee


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:04:48 -0500 (CDT)
>Subject: Mexico UFO Video

>I was just interviewed by CTV CANADA AM regarding Jaime
>Maussan's news conference in Mexico about the video obtained on
>March 5, 2004, by Mexican AF officers. I have now seen the
>Mexican AF video and have to say that I'm reasonably impressed.

>According to what's been posted on UpDates, Rense and elsewhere,
>the Mexican DoD verifies the video and admits it was taken by
>some of its AF officers while on routine drug trafficking
>patrol.

>The video was shot with night vison lenses, and shows
>several bright sources moving in formation behind (definitely
>not in front of) clouds. If the Mexican government insists they
>are puzzled by the multiple-witness, long-duration video and
>that the objects are not drug traffickers fleeing the
>authorities, then it appears to be a good case.

>However, I have already been informed that CTV has chosen to
>have an astronomer named Paul Delaney as a guest instead of me.
>My guess is he'll dismiss the UFO video out of hand.

Unlike the skeptic know-it-alls, I contacted FLIR Systems that
built the infrared viewing system which picked up the
objects/lights.

This is not "night vision" in the sense of a starlight scope.
This system detects sources of heat ("light", electromagnetic
radiation) and reflected sunlight in the 3-5 micron range. Any
metallic object "out there" could reflect sunlight, but it would
also be seen visually. According to the mst recent news report
the distance, by radar I assume, was as close as 2 miles, so any
metallic object should have been seen.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                      The March 2004 Mexican UFO Video

From: Sander Borghuis <gisoline.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:36:14 +0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:41:18 -0400
Subject: The March 2004 Mexican UFO Video


On a search for the Hessdalen lights - I lived for three years in
Norway and got interested in the subject, however never visited,
mainly because the chances of seeing the Hessdalen lights have
decreased sharply since the 1980's. But than I come across this
article:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/jan/m08-026.shtml

and it looks so much like the 11(!) paired UFO case in Mexico
that I must post it.

So far I have not seen anybody mention the fact that Mexico
lights are moving so 'organized' or paired, and I would even
claimed mirrored... correct me when I am wrong.

That was it for now, give it a thought. Inversion layer at 3500
m, possible, not possible? Further, I believe there was an
earthquake that shook Mexico not long ago, I remember seeing the
news. Was it in the same time same region? Just curious, I will
try to find out.

I'll keep you informed.


Best regards,

Sander Borghuis








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                          Was Chicken Little Right?

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 06:52:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:46:09 -0400
Subject: Was Chicken Little Right?


Source:  Santa Fe Institute

http://www.santafe.edu/sfi/events/abstract/204

05-12-04


Seminar Abstract

Monday, July 19, 2004 - 12:15 PM - Medium Conference Room

Bruce Masse
Los Alamos National Laboratory
RRES-ECO Ecology Group

Was Chicken Little Right??? The Archaeology and Anthropology of
Holocene Period Cosmic Impacts

Scientific literature emphatically states there is no historical
record of a human being ever being killed by a cosmic impact.
Because of such messages from the physical sciences, few
archaeologists and anthropologists have become engaged with this
topic. Recent anthropological and historical research (by Bruce
Masse) demonstrates that mythology represents the supernatural
encoding of those observed major natural events and processes
most profoundly affecting cultural groups. Imbedded within
worldwide mythology are a number of witnessed cosmic impacts,
including events causing human death and suffering.


-- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

             Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Adams

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:59:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:54:00 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts - Adams


>From: Sue Strickland <strick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 00:53:08 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:14:40 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Abductions And Ancient Astronauts

>>Hi Sue. Nice writing. Just wondering though. How can one be an
>>"x-abductee"?

>I hope I am an ex-abductee. It's been a while since they've
>visited... April, 1997. So, if they don't show up this year... I
>hope to toss out their memory by writing the "fictional" book,
>along with my old tax records. For you see, their mental command
>to "not talk with anyone about what I've seen or experienced,"
>has been only partially effective.
<snip>

Sue, I hope for your sake it's so. You're probably right about
writing down your experiences soon afterwards. Did you
experience both physicals & training by them?

Did you have any regression sessions after the April 1997
incident? Or any other time? If so, did they help you deal with
the experiences?


Brian









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                  Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Adams

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:06:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:56:06 -0400
Subject: Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Adams


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:13:43 -0500
>Subject: Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:29:23 -0400
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: The March Mexico UFOs Footage

>>Jaime Mausson's piece on the March 5, 11 UFOs video
>>over Mexico is available for viewing at:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.com/ufo/mexico/mexico-03-05-04.mpg

>>Its a shade under 20Mbs

>>ebk

>Hang on a minute. I have to pick my jaw up off the floor.

>Bless the Mexican Airforce for their courage and openness. I
>wonder how many such videos are in the hands of other Airforces
>around the world.

>Terry

I agree Terry. The openess of both Mexican and Belgian military
is appreciated.

Recall the Phoenix Lights March 1997 incident when Luke AFB sent
up two chase fighters and one reportedly had nose cone camera
video sent off to DC. This was covered by C2C Art Bell interview
with a AFB person from that evening.


Brian










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                      PRG Media Annoucement - 05-12-04

From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:38:46 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:34:31 -0400
Subject: PRG Media Annoucement - 05-12-04


PRG
Paradigm Research Group


Media Announcement - May 12, 2004

Washington, DC - Stephen Bassett, Executive Director of Paradigm
Research Group, will appear on Fox News Channel's Studio B with
Shepard Smith, today at 3:45 pm EST to discuss the recent
release of "Foo Fighter" video footage by the Mexican Ministry
of Defense and an X-PPAC Congressional Alert just sent to
Congress.

Links:

Fox News Channel Studio B:

www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html


Associated Press:

www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040511.wufos0511/BNStory/Front/

Reuters:

www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5109891


X-PPAC Congressional Alert (5/12/04):

www.x-ppac.org/Alerts.html

________________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_________________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg
www.x-conference.com
Tapes/DVDs available at: www.lostartsmedia.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                 Seeking Investigator In Sheridan California

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:30:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:38:28 -0400
Subject: Seeking Investigator In Sheridan California


HBCC UFO Note: I have been asked by the witness to find a UFO
investigator who would be willing to drop into see these folks
and have a look at what they are seeing, or get the details. But
they do want an investigator to pay them a visit. Just so these
folks don't get many wanting to pay them a visit, I will grab
the first good investigator who would like to look into this.
You can contact me at hbccufo.nul for the witnesses email
address so you can make arrangements.

Thank you.

Brian

-----

Sheridan, California

Date:  April 4, 2004
Time:  4:04 a.m.

Next door to Beale AFB Yuba, California

Number of witnesses: 4
Number of objects: 11
Shape of objects: many different shapes and colors
Full Description of event/sighting: Each night we have UFO's all
around our property. We live in the hill next to Camp Far West
Lake and Beale AFB. I have had them come right up to the deck
three at a time.  My Wife and I have now become use to them and
We believe We know what is going on. Most will think we're crazy
but I do know the truth out there.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

               Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:36:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:40:59 -0400
Subject: Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:19:03 -0400
>Subject: Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:29:05 -0400
>>Subject: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video

>The recent Mexico sighting, which involves an infrared imaging
>system made by FLIR Systems (Model Star Sapphire II), could be a
>physics breakthrough in the confirmation of UFO radiation in the
>non-visible, infrared range. I am aware of only one other case
>involving UFO photography that indicates the presence of
>infrared radiation. Furthermore, in that case there also seemed
>to be a wavelength shift, i.e., a shift of the spectrum being
>radiated by the UFO, before it disappeared. I refer to the
>sighting on March 12, 1991 in Pensacola, FL.

>You can learn the details of this sighting and see the photos
>that were taken by going to:

>http://brumac.8k.com/GulfBreeze/GBBUBBA.html

>You can scroll down several pages to the section entitled
>"Invisible Light."

The above URL is not correct. Sorry if anyone wasted time
trying to make it work.

The correct URL is:

http://brumac.8k.com/GulfBreeze/Bubba/GBBUBBA.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                       Re: Mexico UFO Video - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:11:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:43:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Video - Lehmberg


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:04:48 -0500 (CDT)
>Subject: Mexico UFO Video

<snip>

>I was just interviewed by CTV CANADA AM regarding Jaime
>Maussan's news conference in Mexico about the video obtained on
>March 5, 2004, by Mexican AF officers. I have now seen the
>Mexican AF video and have to say that I'm reasonably impressed.

>However, I have already been informed that CTV has chosen to
>have an astronomer named Paul Delaney as a guest instead of me.
>My guess is he'll dismiss the UFO video out of hand.

>Oh, well. That's media for you.

I've just stomped into the studio, barefoot, soaking wet,
wearing an overcoat with no pants! Wild-eyed and outraged, with
voice quaking in anger I exclaim. "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not
going to take it anymore"!!!

Will somebody please get me some knickers.....

The people writing these reports are consciousless tools without
a semblance of a clue and they dictate their cluelessness to the
hopelessly distracted... who would run them out of town on a
rail (!) if they knew the depth of the bill of goods they were,
airily, being sold!

I say hold 'them' openly in the contempt and dismissal they
extend to you, (to US!); hold THEM accountable for the same
evidentiary standards they hold you, sneer at 'their' ignorance
and credulity, ridicule 'them' for their lack of intellectual
courage, and condemn 'their' intellectual cowardice! Call the
bastards out, John Ford Obnoxious, if needs be! Sue for
information! Prosecute humbuggery; perpetrate a fraud at your
risk.... All told I think there's quite a lot more of us than
them...

Ok ...it's a rant... but damn it... Disrespect is really one of
the few activities that just cannot be respected... The
mainstream opposition disrespects out of hand, thoughtlessly,
unintelligently and too conveniently. I can have no respect for
that which will have no respect for me. I'll eat their
metaphoric face as I am able. It was their call. It's always
been their call. It's time to snatch control of our own lives
back from the manipulators. The mainstream is beneath contempt
and it's well past the time we should be shining them on about
it!

alienview.nul
EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Davenport

From: Peter Davenport - National UFO Reporting Center <director.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:22:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:47:49 -0400
Subject: Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Davenport


>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:06:51 -0500
>Subject: Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage

>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:13:43 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage

>>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:29:23 -0400
>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: The March Mexico UFOs Footage

>>>Jaime Mausson's piece on the March 5, 11 UFOs video
>>>over Mexico is available for viewing at:

>>>http://www.virtuallystrange.com/ufo/mexico/mexico-03-05-04.mpg

>>>Its a shade under 20Mbs

>>>ebk

>>Hang on a minute. I have to pick my jaw up off the floor.

>>Bless the Mexican Airforce for their courage and openness. I
>>wonder how many such videos are in the hands of other Airforces
>>around the world.

>>Terry

>I agree Terry. The openess of both Mexican and Belgian military
>is appreciated.

>Recall the Phoenix Lights March 1997 incident when Luke AFB sent
>up two chase fighters and one reportedly had nose cone camera
>video sent off to DC. This was covered by C2C Art Bell interview
>with a AFB person from that evening.


Brian,

I agree with your comment about the Mexican and Belgian
governments. I believe the government of Chile deserves
commendation here, as well, for its openness with regard to the
UFO phenomenon.

Regarding the Phoenix Lights case of March 13, 1997, Art Bell
did do a program on what was unfolding there, although the
program did not involve USAF personnel. The USAF Airman who
apparently was involved in the intercept of the object by F-15's
contacted NUFORC several hours after the incident, but because
of his position, and at his request, I did not release
information about the conversation I had had with him until
August 1998, after he was scheduled to be released from his
military service commitment.

However, the information about my conversation I forwarded to a
UFO investigator in Arizona, who in turn, dispatched a
subordinate investigator to interview the Airman at his
apartment. The investigator/interviewer promptly put the
Airman's name on the internet, and he was gone from Luke
AFB...and from sight... within 24 hours. NUFORC has not heard
from him since March 16, 1997.

To the best of my knowledge, no military personnel were involved
in the C2C program of March 13/14.


Peter Davenport
NUFORC








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                        Re: Mexico UFO Video - Woods

From: Mike Woods <mike.woods.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:27:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:51:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Video - Woods


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:04:48 -0500 (CDT)
>Subject: Mexico UFO Video

>I was just interviewed by CTV CANADA AM regarding Jaime
>Maussan's news conference in Mexico about the video obtained on
>March 5, 2004, by Mexican AF officers. I have now seen the
>Mexican AF video and have to say that I'm reasonably impressed.

>According to what's been posted on UpDates, Rense and elsewhere,
>the Mexican DoD verifies the video and admits it was taken by
>some of its AF officers while on routine drug trafficking
>patrol.

>The video was shot with night vison lenses, and shows
>several bright sources moving in formation behind (definitely
>not in front of) clouds. If the Mexican government insists they
>are puzzled by the multiple-witness, long-duration video and
>that the objects are not drug traffickers fleeing the
>authorities, then it appears to be a good case.

>However, I have already been informed that CTV has chosen to
>have an astronomer named Paul Delaney as a guest instead of me.
>My guess is he'll dismiss the UFO video out of hand.

>Oh, well. That's media for you.


Hey Chris,

Easy with those media cracks..... <LOL> It appears I'll be on
Space Channel in Canada on the 5:55pm (EDT) hit today,
Wednesday May 12th.

I was interviewed by Natasha about the Mexico video.... and the
only reason I was interviewed was because I hadn't left the
newsroom by the time they came hunting for me.

I'm impressed with the video and think we've got grist for the
mill here for at least another decade.


Mike (UFO GUY) Woods
My licence plate BTW








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

               Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:27:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:56:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Warren



>Source: CTV Canada

>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1084326182029_16/?hub=SciTe
ch

>05-11-04

>Mexican UFO Sighting No Big Deal: Analyst

>CTV.ca News Staff

>Mexico's Defence Department is confirming that images of 11
>unidentified flying objects were captured by Mexican air force
>pilots.

>But a Canadian space observer says that while the objects are
>unidentified, one cannot go much further than that.

>"The question is what kind of object or objects are these," Ivan
>Semeniuk of the Discovery Channel told CTV Newsnet.

<snip>


Listers,

The following is my letter to the editor of CTV:

Dear Editor,

What Ivan Semeniuk has overlooked is that the UFOs were tracked
by radar, so their speed can be estimated. Also, the pilots can
give a fair assessment of the objects speed, based on their own
speed direction etc.

Secondly, orbital debris re-entering the atmosphere does not
turn around "during pursuit" and surround it's pursuers!

Finally, to the best of my knowledge there has never been an
instance of "orbital debris" re-entering the atmosphere that
"can't be seen by the naked eye," yet shows up on infrared
camera!

One has to wonder if Ivan Semeniuk read the initial reports in
their entirety.


Regards,

Frank Warren










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

             Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:06:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:15:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -


>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:34:04 +0200
>Subject: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs


>Dear List,

>An auto-translationn (world.altavista.com) of Jaime Maussan's
>Spanish page on the March 2004 Mexican Airforce sighting of
>11 UFOs at:

>http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm

>is now available in PDF format:

>http://mufon-ces.org/docs/040305mexicoufos.pdf

I have read through the PDF and compared with the original
Spanish. The translation is rough, to say the least. There
appear to be sections missing from the text and the images that
appear often have nothing to do with the text.

Of particular interest is the evaluation by the physicist.  The
translation is not good enough to make his arguments clear, but
he evidently connects a "halo" around the images with a large
magnetic field. I doubt that, although the objects may well have
had a magnetic field.  I guess the most important aspect of this
is that there is no explanation for the presence of infrared
light sources (or reflectors of infrared sunlight) which can be
detected on radar, which can travel along with the aircraft, but
which cannot be seen from a distance of 2 miles in daylight.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

               Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video -

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:55:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:22:17 -0400
Subject: Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:19:03 -0400
>Subject: Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:29:05 -0400
>>Subject: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video

>The recent Mexico sighting, which involves an infrared imaging
>system made by FLIR Systems (Model Star Sapphire II), could be a
>physics breakthrough in the confirmation of UFO radiation in the
>non-visible, infrared range. I am aware of only one other case
>involving UFO photography that indicates the presence of
>infrared radiation. Furthermore, in that case there also seemed
>to be a wavelength shift, i.e., a shift of the spectrum being
>radiated by the UFO, before it disappeared. I refer to the
>sighting on March 12, 1991 in Pensacola, FL.

>You can learn the details of this sighting and see the photos
>that were taken by going to:

>http://brumac.8k.com/GulfBreeze/GBBUBBA.html

Hi Bruce,

This link didn't work for my. I got a 404 error "Page Not Found"

Terry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                 Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:14:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:25:09 -0400
Subject: Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage - Yturria


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:41:25 -0400
>Subject: Re: The March Mexico UFOs Footage

>I downloaded the specifications for the infrared camera Star
>Sapphire II from the web site of FLIR Systems Corp. in Portland,
>Oregon. I then contacted FLIR sysems and got some information on
>the symbols on the display. Will be reporting on this.

>The radar may be AN/APS-143(V)3 which can be found on the web.
>It is an ocean surveillance radar with a range of 200 miles. I
>could find no technical details and no mention of the
>manufacturer.

>Any List Member out there with any information on the radar?


The radar used by the Merlin C26A was a RADAR AN/PS 143 BRAVO
VICTOR 3.


Santiago








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                  Mexico UFO Footage Background Information

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:22:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:03:02 -0400
Subject: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information


Dear friends,

It's important to note that the Mexican Secretary of Defense
conducted a complete investigation with their own team shortly
after the March 5, 2004 incident and also with the help of
scientists and experts selected as goverment advisors. The
investigation was conducted confidentially and followed every
proccedure required.

As the results were inconclusive, in the sense of identifing the
nature of the traffic detected by the C26A equipment, the case
was declared "Unexplained". It was not until April 20, 2004 when
General Clemente Vega, Secretary of Defense decided, with his
staff, to contact Jaime Maussan as an advisor to aid in the
investigation to conduct an independent study and analisis of
the C26A data.

As an expert in UFO incidents relating to civil aircraft, Jaime
had a meeting with General Vega and all the major Defense
officials on April 21 and the next day he was shown all the
materials. The intention of the military was to dig deep into
the phenomenon in which the C26A was involved, trying to establish
if this was indeed a paranormal incident as suspected and to find
elements that were not contained in their own data base with
the purpose of getting to the bottom of this event.

All the facilities were given to Jaime as well as authorization
to access the files and interrogate the crew members. In a
surprising and historic decision General Clemente Vega
authorized Jaime Maussan to release the case with all the facts
to the Mexican people. General Vega said to him with gentle
words: "  know you will make good use of this Mr. Maussan."

A complete study and analisis was made by Jaime's research team
and the results have been published on the Internet and presented
on national TV. The conclusions are clear, they were UFOs - solid
objects of unknown origin - flying in airspace along with the
Merlin C26A. The Secretary of Defense accepted the Maussan
research team's conclusions as an unexplained event.

At this time alternate analysis are being conducted by several
groups here in Mexico including astronomers, meteorologists and
digital imaging experts. This is a mutual effort by Mexican
ufologists and scientists to respond to this long awaited UFO
disclosure by our military as an acknowledge for their
confidence in all of us.

The case continues, in its second research phase. Next
Sunday Jaime Maussan will present all the facts,interviews and
the complete footage with original audios in our TV show Los
Grandes Misterios del Tercer Milenio, a two hours live broadcast
simultaneously on the Internet for all to see this story.

The link:

http://www.jaimemaussan.tv/


Santiago Yturria








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

              Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Elnadi

From: Mo Elnadi <mnadi.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:32:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:09:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Elnadi


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
>Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 12:44:57 +0200 (CEST)
>To: ufoupdates.nul, project1954.nul
>Subject: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt?

>I am looking for a UFO researcher living in Egypt who can
>provide press, scientific or official information on a curious
>UFO event that occurred in Egypt on October 5, 1954, which has
>been poorly documented to date.


Dear Vicente-Juan and all the List Members,

This is my first email to this interesting List.

I read your email about the UFO incident in Egypt with great
interest. I should be able to help since I am Egyptian and the
owner of a well known Egyptian forum:


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/el-shella/

with many helpful members in the age group that might know more
details about this incident, or know the person you are trying
to reach.

I am taking your permission to re-send your questions to the
forum and pass your email address to members, then you can
update us all here with your findings.


Regards,

Mo








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

              Same Distance Between Formations On Mexico Video?

From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g.nul-online.de>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:06:35 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:18:20 -0400
Subject: Same Distance Between Formations On Mexico Video?


This is a layman production!

I used Paint Shop Pro 4.12 from 1997(!) and tried to
compute a panorama of two single frames (3066th and 3511st
frame) from the movie that was at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.com/ufo/mexico/mexico-03-05-04.mpg

Frame 1

http://www.ufodb.net/frame1.jpg


Frame 2

http://www.ufodb.net/frame2.jpg



I copied both pictures on top of another:

http://www.ufodb.net/panorama.jpg



As you clearly see, there might be an equal distance between
all 'formations', see panorama2.jpg:

http://www.ufodb.net/panorama2.jpg


Of course this is no evidence but others besides me could try this.

excuse my english


Bye,

Daniel G.

--
Just the Cases - UFO sightings database
http://www.ufodb.net








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                        Mexican UFO Footage On UK TV

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:56:52 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:23:08 -0400
Subject: Mexican UFO Footage On UK TV


Errol, Listers,

The Mexican UFO footage has been shown on the UK Terrestrial
channels. Channel 4 evening news & Channel 5 evening news.

Both segments were about 30 seconds long, with a small amount of
narration concerning comments made by the Mexican military.


Max







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                           Filers Files #21 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:31:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:39:31 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #21 - 2004



Filers Files #21 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer
Director MUFON Eastern and
Vice-President of Skywatch International Ltd.

May 12, 2004,

Webmaster: Chuck Warren


If photos don't show up in email, try

www.georgefiler.com/  "Weekly files" Views



Mexico Acknowledges UFOs

UFOs or Dinosaurs on ISS Space Walk?

Mars  -  Bunny Hops to New Location, New York  -  Flying Triangle,
Silver Orb Seen In Over Central Park, New Jersey  -  Shape
Changer, Pennsylvania  -   UFO Formation, Delaware - Hovering
Craft, South Carolina  -  Flying Triangle, Florida  -  Sighting
Investigation, Ohio  -  Lights and Video, Indiana - Silvery Disc,
Tennessee  -  Flying Triangle,  Arizona - Craft Sparks, Utah -
 Disks, Oregon - UFO Near Jet Trails, Washington  -  Aircraft-
Carrier Overhead, Canada - Disk and Lights, Mexico  -  Air Force
Pilots Chase UFO, UK/England  -  Five Triangles, Netherlands -
 Strange Entity Photo, Malaysia - Strange Flying Star,Australia
- Cluster Of White Lights.

Congratulations to Jim Hickman who is the new Director of
Skywatch International Ltd.


UFOs or Dinosaurs on ISS Space Walk?

Jeff Challender  - Director of Project Prove reports, "The two
crewmen of ISS Expedition 8 prepared and trained, for the
February 25, 2004, EVA for years. No aspect of the mission to be
performed, no piece of equipment, no part to be installed should
come as any surprise. Yet, in his own words, to Cosmonaut Kaleri
these "Dinosaurs" came as a great and unwelcome, surprise on .
Why?

Kaleri  -  So, dinosaurs are needed here. You can't do, can't do
anything without them.

Korelyev  -  Say it again?

Kaleri  -  I say when the dinosaur is here. Yes! I have them here!
(Pause for several seconds) Uh, these are with me now!

Korelyev  -  Yes. Let them be with you. Understood. (Several
Minutes Later)

Foale  -  (garbled), Sasha is attaching the dinosaurs now,


UPDATE -- A well known debunker has made claim that Cosmonaut
Kaleri was referring to a snipping tool used in space walks.
Personally, I don't see the connection. If one takes the word
"Dinosaur" by itself out of context, perhaps such a case can be
made. But when one takes the entire conversation Kaleri had with
Russian controllers in Korelyev, the tool explanation simply
does not fit. Both Kaleri, and Russian Mission Control spoke of
"Dinosaurs" in plural. Astronaut Michael Foale stated that Sasha
was installing the dinosaurs. Regardless if this is true or not,
the tool claim isn't the answer. There was never any talk about
cutting, or snipping, any bundless, or tiedowns. Thanks to Jeff
Challender  -  http://projectprove.com/SashasDinosaurs.html


Mars  -  Bunny Hops to New Location

NASA writes, "After looking at pictures of Opportunity's lander
up-close, I think we might have, again, spotted the bunny," said
Johnson. "It looks as if the object has been blown under the
north-facing egress ramp."  Johnson and his colleagues believe
that a light wind whirling from the north over Opportunity's
Challenger Memorial Station landing site could have transported
the article. Its small size indicates that it would be easily
carried by even a light wind. The three-color Pancam images
acquired of the object as part of the mission success panorama
even showed some evidence that the object moved slightly between
images from the gentle wind. Johnson estimates that the breeze
pushed the "bunny ears" an estimated 5 to 6 meters (about 16 to
20 feet)

If Not a Bunny, Then What?

JPL states. "Our team believes that this odd-looking feature is
a piece of soft material that definitely came from our vehicle,"
said Rob Manning, lead engineer for entry, descent and landing.
"We cannot say exactly where it came from but we can say that
there are several possibilities: cotton insulation, Vectran
covers and wraps from the airbag, zylon bridle tensioning ties,
or felt insulation from the gas generators.... The list goes on.
We do not think this is parachute material, however, due to its
color).

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/opportunity/b19_20040304.html

Editor's Note:  To confound things for the Mars Exploration
Rover we have found another piece of airbag or blowing debris
far from the initial bunny. Thanks to JPL for the photo.


New York  -  Flying Triangle

CORAM -- While driving on a neighborhood road, two friends
looked out the sunroof of his car and saw three non blinking
lights that were positioned like the trinity on April  23, 2004,
at 7:30 PM.  It must have been at least a mile high and moved
slowly northeast.  We watched about 1 1/2 minutes while it
slowly moved away and rose up and flew on.  Three weeks earlier,
we had seen similar lights in the distance. ufocenter.com

BRISTOL/CANANDAIGUA  -  An almond shaped disk type object was
observed hovering over the hills on April 30, 2004, at 11 PM.
An object that was bigger than the light it projected was
observed through binoculars and the outline of the object was
visible but it was not lit.  Two other similar objects were seen
but they changed shape as they moved back and forth, then up and
down.  These were not planes, satellites and stars. The witness
stated, "They moved within milliseconds of any activity in the
sky that I have ever seen." I could see almost every turn they
made and as they  changed from almond shape, to disk shape to
something that seemed perfectly round, and hovered right over my
house. There was a design ion the bottom of this one craft,
almost looked like that of a phoenix or some type of fancy
geometrical design. ufocenter.com

The one that came the closest was mostly grey that would shift
into a bright blue, white and then it would flash something red
once in a while. It had an aura around it and it would move
towards the other two in the sky (which were farther away then
the one I was observing), when that happened then the other two
would seem to move rapidly and disappear at random moments and
then reappear. As I watched this one come closer, I could feel a
"pull" that is hard to explain unless someone knows or has
experienced what I am talking about. I was outside when this
happened and these objects were appearing in the eastern skies.

I stood there studying them for about 3 hours. I lost track of
time and then became too tired to continue. I remember before
walking into the house around 3 am, there was a huge thing that
swept right under it (the object) on my final glance and I am
not sure how to explain that one. Out of all the "suspected"
UFOs I have seen, this one concerned me most. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director ufocenter.com

Silver Orb Seen In Over Central Park.

MANHATTAN  -  The observer who works on screen plays was walking
around Central Park on April 30, 2004, at 3 PM, when he caught
glimpse of what he thought was a child's silver balloon floating
away. The object seemed to change shape, and flatten slightly,
then round back out again as it flew west that was not the
normal behavior of a floating balloon. I could not judge the
distance accurately, so I cannot judge the size accurately. It
seemed like a blimp, at times, which it may have been. But it
appeared to flatten and behave more like a balloon. I could not
identify it; hence, I'm entering this report. There was a lot of
light in the sky but overcast. Thanks to J

New Jersey  -  Shape Changer

WOODBRIDGE -- The observer was traveling west on Oak Tree Road
when his attention was drawn to a jet black glossy cylindrically
shaped object that was floating northeast at less than 1000 feet
on April 30, 2004, at 10:25 PM. The witness states, "It had to
be huge, more them 75 feet in length and at least 10 feet in
diameter.  It was shaped like a glossy black sausage casing, and
it would periodically go into a formal V-shape and then speed up
in that direction of travel. As it crossed in front of me on
Wood Avenue the sun would glint off this rotating sausage shaped
object. Two smaller spheres were also observed, one attached at
each end. This object would also rotate end over end stop and go
straight vertical, hover for a few seconds after bending in the
middle from a v-shaped profile, and maintain this attitude for a
few seconds before going on.

It also maintained a true and straight attitude and height, for
if it was a balloon, it would have risen while in my view. I
pointed it out to a few passer-bys, but they said it was a
balloon. The object then drifted in a stop and go manner out
over the Garden State Parkway and then I lost sight of the
object. It was 60 degrees in temp, partly sunny and the wind was
calm. It is also 1 year ago (5-1-03) when I saw a similar
changing object in the vicinity. Thanks to Peter Davenport
ufocenter.com

Delaware - Hovering Craft

SEAFORD/OLD BRIDGE -- Driving south on Route13, the witness
noticed two bright white lights  low on the horizon on April 30,
2004, at 3:15 PM, that was not moving. As he drove closer and
almost got under it, I noticed that it was just hovering about
1000 feet off the ground, so he pulled over and got out of the
car and looked up. The witness states, "The object had two
bright white lights aiming straight out and was shaped like a
stop sign with just five sides, dark in color maybe grey or
black, and was silent not a peep of sound."  I started to get a
little nervous and had a delivery to make right down the street,
so I jumped back in the car, made my delivery.  When I was going
back to the area I pulled over again to look, but it was gone.
First time in my life I have ever seen a UFO. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director ufocenter.com

Pennsylvania  -   UFO Formation

PLYMOUTH BOROUGH  -  The observer claims that he had a sighting
similar to these cross-shaped light formations on March 12, 2000
and on March 15 of this year.  He saw them again gain on April
30, 2004, at 11 PM.  These lights were in a line and wavered in
a manner similar to a mirage. The size of object or objects and
distance was difficult to determine but there was no sound and
white lights with no visible attachment. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director ufocenter.com

South Carolina  -  Flying Triangle

VARNVILLE -- On Tuesday night April 28, 2004 around 11:35 PM,
the witness saw an unidentified craft heading northeast with two
lights blinking on and off.  One was green and the other red.
There were three big white lights forming a triangular shape on
what seemed to be the bottom of the aircraft. The object was
moving very slowly at about 30-45 miles per hour. As I kept
looking at the craft it tilted a little to its side where I
could see only the three big glowing lights at the bottom. I was
amazed to see this unusual object go by making no sound as it
passed almost on top of where I was standing.

It was just a couple of hundred feet away. This thing looked
huge as it flew off.  I was unable to see it anymore, so I went
back inside my house and tried to go to sleep. I tossed and
turned and could not sleep. This is the second sighting I have
seen since moving to South Carolina. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director ufocenter.com

Florida  -  Sighting Investigation

FT. MYERS -- Mary Margaret Zimmer writes, she obtained
confirmation of theFt. Myers sighting from an additional witness
who states, "I, too, saw an object as I was leaving Wal-Mart
with my wife, on January 4, 2004, at 2:30 PM.. We exited the
building to the east and walked into the parking lot. The sun
was setting so we were in the shadow of the building. We
unloaded the shopping cart and noticed an object floating in the
air to the west. At first I thought it was a weather balloon
because it was puffy and it just bounced along at 500-1000 feet,
but upon second glance I noticed it was more rectangular or even
square. I said to my wife "What's that"? but she kept reading
over the shopping receipt. I said "It's a UFO", but she thought
I was kidding and ignored me. When I looked back a third time it
was gone.  I've been a weather observer and aviator since 1984
and I have never seen anything like this before. It was big and
definitely "hardware", and not a cloud. Thanks to Mary Margaret
Zimmer MUFON, FI, SSD, ASD,   http://www.skyscan.org


Ohio  -  Lights and Video

WARREN  -  On May 8, the witness saw a large bright light at
midnight that was moving very fast and it was a big light.  It
was above the clouds. The weather station reported the clouds
had a ceiling of 11,000 feet. We have an Air Force reserve base
nearby at Youngstown Air Port. ufocenter.com

FOSTORIA  -  George Ritter is again capturing video of UFOs. Here
is an interesting air stream like image moving at estimated 1000
mph.


Indiana - Silvery Disc

NOBLESVILLE  -  The witness was letting his dog out on April 23,
2004, at 8:30 PM, and saw the crescent moon a bright star below
and to the north. Then far to the south there was a bright blue
star and then below was a silvery dot. It moved from right to
left but it kept disappearing. I swear for almost a split second
it looked like the classic UFO (disc with half a circle on top
in middle) but it was really far away...Oh, also it was being
chased by either a helicopter or plane (light flashing) but the
disc did not emit any light. Thanks to Peter Davenport
ufocenter.com

Tennessee  -  Flying Triangle

KNOXVILLE  -  An unidentified flying object was spotted early in
the morning on April 19, 2004, at 7:15 PM, while the witness was
driving home from work on a beautiful, clear morning with the
usual crisscrossing contrails in the sky. As he entered I-75
northbound, he noticed an unusual contrail rising vertically
from the horizon. I pulled over, looked up through my
windshield, and saw that the contrail continued straight up for
about a third of the visible sky and then made a 20 to 25 degree
course change to the left.

I followed the path of the contrail until I could see that a
small, triangular shape continuing to travel almost vertically
into the morning sky was making the contrail. It looked like a
rocket on a path into the stratosphere. I watched the object
moving upward until I could no longer see it. The contrail
dissipated until only the initial vertical contrail was still
faintly visible; it remained so for about another ten minutes. I
could see the vertical contrail straight ahead of me in the
northern sky.  This was definitely NOT an aircraft.  Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director ufocenter.com

Kansas - Sphere-like Craft.

LAWRENCE -- My roommates were all watching TV in the dorm, when
they suddenly jumped up and started freaking out while looking
at three lights flying over Lewis Hall on April 21, 2004, at
10:35 PM.  I was totally confused, and thought they were messing
with me. The witness states, "I got up to look and saw lights
floating in the sky, but I was still skeptical while the lights
continued onward towards the dorms."  It then came into view.
"It was obvious that it had a sphere like shape with three
lights," he said. I thought, this has to be an airplane, until
it plainly came in view. It then flew over the dorm; I ran into
the room across the hall and looked through their window. The
UFO at this point began to roll head over heals (as visible by
the lights) and then flew off quickly out of sight. Unless the
government has some sort of secret hovering sphere like craft, I
am now an unwanting believer. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
ufocenter.com


Utah  -  Disk

OAKLEY  -  The witness was taking photos when he caught a disk
shaped object in the sky on April 30, 2004, at 3:30 PM. He
states, "I was out taking photos of some property and noticed a
disk shaped saucer in one of the photos that was kind of blurred
like it was moving at a very fast speed. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director ufocenter.com


Arizona - Craft Sparks

SUPERIOR  -  The witness was driving east on Highway 60 in rural
Arizona on April 28, 2004, at 9 PM, and saw the aircraft north
of the road just outside Gold Canyon. The witness states, "At
first, I thought I was seeing single sparks from fireworks, but
then I noticed that there were evenly spaced rotating lights,
and  then it left my view." I called my wife on my cell phone
and she thought I was crazy. Then about 15 minutes later I saw
the same craft as I was beginning my assent of Gonzales Pass on
the south side of Highway 60.

This time it was lower in the night sky and I got scared. Again
it appeared as single sparks of fireworks, but it was certainly
a craft of some sort and the "sparks" were light. The lights did
not light up the sky they seamed as though they were running
lights. This area is notorious for military F-16 fighter
training flights. I wonder if the government is testing new
aircraft or if it was something else? Thanks to Peter Davenport
ufocenter.com


Oregon - UFO Near JetTrails

PORTLAND  - - Around 6:30 PM, on April 30, 2004, while it was
still very much light outside, we noticed a beige/yellow
circular shape "hovering" around the trails of a jet that had
flown by moments earlier. It did not seem to be moving. We kept
our eye on it for several minutes, and it remained still. We
were making trips in and out of the apartment building, and we
kept checking on it, trying to frame it at the same spot between
a tree and a balcony in order to judge if it was moving.
Unfortunately, we did not see it take off. We made another trip,
and when we came back to the parking lot, it was gone. This
event probably lasted 10 - 15 minutes. An airplane passed above
the object during this time. Thanks to Peter Davenport.
ufocenter.com


Washington  -  Aircraft-Carrier Overhead

SEATTLE  -  A huge object traveled from north to south that seemed
very high in the sky and very massive, vaguely
triangle/rectangle shaped on April 29, 2004, at 11:10 PM.  It
had three irregular shaped very dim glowing areas according to
the witness.  He states, "I was looking at the moon about 15
degrees to my right when I noticed it at about 80 degrees high.

It faded at  50 degrees and was a red/amber color.  After
testing and evaluation, I am certain that it was not an after-
image from looking at the moon.  The features were not similar
and after looking away and back again with a little scrutiny I
found it again. There was no noise and no flashing lights. At
all times it was hard to discern. It seemed to pause at 50
degrees then continued.  My impression was of an aircraft-
carrier floating across the sky! Thanks to Peter Davenport
ufocenter.com

Canada - Disk and Lights

TORONTO  -  The witness was his way home from work on April 20,
2004, at 8:36 PM, and driving through a stretch of farm field
area, saw a very white light coming from his right side. The
observer stated, "The light was so bright that I tried to speed
up to go right past it, as I went past the light and saw  a
fairly large sized disk shaped UFO. Size wise I would say it was
about the size of a fighter plane, but disk shaped. I slowed
down to a stop about 50 feet past the UFO.  I turned around and
looked back, it seemed to be floating in the air.  I wasn't able
to make out a color but I could definitely see the shape in the
dark. It floated for about a minute, and then it sort of swung
like a pendulum side to side before blasting to its left up
towards the sky. It took about 10 -15 seconds for the UFO to
vanish into the sky. Confused and shocked I drove home.


VANCOUVER, BC - A call came in from two witnesses who were
sitting in their car at English Bay, British Columbia April 28,
2004. They reported that they were watching three unusual
objects and giving me the description over the phone as they
observed them at 10:45 p.m.  The witness said she was watching
the objects through her binoculars and said the one object was
huge and the other two a lot smaller. The large object was
circular in shape, bright white and filled with what she
described as darker dots. In the center of the object there was
nothing, or one would be able to see through it.

The object was also rotating and had two smaller objects flying
around it. One of the crafts was reported to be triangular in
shape and the other again more circular. The triangular craft
would move a distance away from the larger object, makes sudden
turns and at times they were able to observe the full triangular
structure and at other times see it being flat. The smaller
circular object would travel around the triangle shaped object
and also move around the circumference of the larger object.


SMITHERS, BC -- The witness was on her way to work on April 16,
2004, and drove by Harris Auto Wrecking when she saw an
extremely large bright pink object low in the sky at about 10:40
PM. It was about the size of a full moon and on the outer edge
was a much lighter pink in color. As the woman drove along she
said it passed overhead at tree top level and at approximately
150 feet away from her. As she slowed her truck down and turned
around to watch the object move slowly into the distance, it
finally just blinked out.  Another lady went outside for a
coffee break and the witness had also seen the UFO.


ACTION, ONTARIO -- A couple saw lights on April 24, 2004 at 8:30
p.m. and took photos of numerous lights that were flying around
in an unusual formation. The object came back into their view
and sat stationary for six to seven minutes when they noticed
two smaller lights which appeared on either side of the larger
light. Seeing this the couple jumped into their car and drove to
a better location to watch the lights.

They had pulled off the highway and started taking the photos of
the objects. After watching the strange lights in the sky the
witness is re-thinking the whole topic on UFOs.  Still observing
the three lights, one of the smaller objects shot off away from
the larger object at an incredible rate of speed. While still
watching, another light which was sitting stationary, started to
flicker out. Then all of a sudden in about 2 seconds it was in
another location of the sky, hovering. Another light appeared,
taking the place of the light that just had flickered out. In
total there were 5 to 6 lights sitting in the sky at one time.
There was a formation of lights, one large extremely bright one
and all the rest were smaller in size and dimmer. Thanks to
Brian Vike, Director www.hbccufo.com


Mexico  -  Air Force Pilots Chase UFO

Jaime Maussan, researcher and TV journalist reports, "The
Mexican Department of Defense along with Maussan's research team
in an unprecedented collaboration released the details of recent
UFO sightings over the Yucatan Peninsula. A drug tracking
aircraft on routine surveillance antinarcotics operation
detected numerous UFOs and videotaped and tracked with radar and
infrared devices. A two engine Merlin C26A detected an unknown
traffic at 10,500 feet over Ciudad del Carmen, Campeche airspace
and requested interceptor aircraft to launch to chase the
possible drug planes. The Merlin approached the unknown traffic
and saw them on AN/PS 143 BRAVO VICTOR 3 RADAR and the FLIR STAR
ZAPPHIR II was recording the object in infrared. As many as
eleven UFOs were tracked maneuvering at high speed that carried
the story Mexican Air Force story.

Mexican Air Force pilots filmed 11 unidentified objects in the
skies over southern Campeche state, a Defense Department
spokesman confirmed Tuesday. A videotape show at least six
lights that were filmed by the aircrew on March 5 at 3,500
meters in the evening sky.

Lt. German Marin the radar operator said, He was a little
afraid. Thanks to Dr. Bruce Cornet and ABCTV who notified me
about the incident. Campeche, Mexico, Hannelore Lode, whose
husband speaks Spanish has been watching Mexican TVthe last
several days the TV is full of stories  and interviews with
pilots, police, government and officials are reporting about a
"really large UFO" and as many as six other ones of smaller
size.  "They stayed around."  "The big one had a ring around it.
The Mexican Department of Defense is acknowledging the existence
of  UFOs.

TIJUANA  -  The observer  was flying home from San Marcos over
Tijuana on April 26, 2004, at 8:50 PM, and noticed a blinking
light out his airplane window. The object dropped down and then
darted to the right and then up again. I watched this light for
about 15 minutes as my plane passed by the stars.  The object
seems to go with the plane. All of a sudden it flashed blue then
orange and dropped straight down very rapidly and disappeared.
http://www.rense.com/general52/deff.htm


UK/England  -  Five Triangles

LONDON  -  Two friends were on a roof terrace in Swiss Cottage
London NW 2, after a sunny day on April 25, 2004, at 2:40 PM.
They just switched off the outside light to look at the stars
and noticed five triangle shaped UFOs appearing at about 45
degrees flying southwest, as if crossing the upper-atmosphere. I
called my friend thinking for a second it would be a shooting
star visible for a second or two. But I quickly realized it
wasn't as bright and there were 5 of them, one ahead of four in
formation, they were light grey in color (I'm colorblind) sort
of triangle shaped. They didn't go brighter or darker, they
seemed to be very high and very fast, and were moving
independently but never breaking the general formation. They
went straight over our heads and we had to twist our necks to
follow them. There were no flashing lights; and no apparent
source of light at the back of the craft. It was eerie but the
adrenaline was rushing thought me. They disappeared at the same
angle in a thin cloud going just slightly more south. It felt
like a privileged moment, meant to happen. I couldn't care less
if no-one believed me, now I know.  Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director ufocenter.com


Netherlands - Strange Entity Photo

HOEVEN -Holland - On May 6, 2004, Robbert van den Broeke a 24-
year-old, took this image of a strange creature late at night.
He got an urge to get his Olympus digital camera and wait in the
living room to photograph something he felt was visiting. At
first he saw a faint mist which he photographed. He took a
series of photographs over the next forty minutes and this is
the fifth image of a strange alien like entity. Robbert van den
Broeke from Hoeven is a renowned medium, who says to be in
contact with entities from another dimension. He also regularly
discovers crop circles and saw balls of light with Nancy Talbot.
The entities show themselves to him as Balls of Light. This week
they showed themselves differently: like grey-white forms with a
small head and big almond-shaped slant-eyes.

According to Van den Broeke we don't have to be afraid. The
alien beings come 'with love, to teach us to take care of the
earth and to be better for each other." Thanks to Toine Trust
http://www.ufoplaza.nl/~ganzegal/pix/alien350x215.jpg


Malaysia - Strange Flying Star

SEREMBAN  -  The witness suddenly woke up at about 5 in the
morning, because the fan wasn't working and there was a sudden
power blackout on April 21, 2004. He states, "A power blackout
is rare in my area so I went outside to relax and saw this weird
light that look like a star but it was zooming in the sky from
north to south faster than an aircraft but produced no sound."
At about 5:45 AM, I grabbed my binoculars for a close look at it
and this strange star like thing was gone. I know it was not an
aircraft.Thanks to Peter Davenport Director ufocenter.com


Australia - Cluster Of White Lights

ADELAIDE -- Around 8.30 PM, on  April 25, 2004 I was inside in
the kitchen on the phone to my friend when my husband came into
the kitchen and asked if I wanted to see a UFO?  I didn't really
know what to think as he is such a skeptic and is a very logical
thinker, so I went outside for a minute.  It was cloudy and at
first I couldn't see anything, but then I saw a series of white
lights, not round but more rectangular shaped lights and they
formed a cluster, flashing. Then a second circle of lights
formed around the cluster, then a third and final circle of
lights surrounded the other two circles, the lights were
rotating in a circle and were flashing. I could barely believe
my eyes.  What we were looking at was the base of something of
incredible size. It was huge, about the size of a football
field, massive,  and the small circle of lights seemed to spin
and the whole thing tilted.

I am frightened, and I kept asking my husband what is it? He
said, I don't know, that is why I had to show you. Ten minutes
later he went outside again and it had gone. It was huge and was
definitely the bottom of something very large, the sheer size of
it, is what got me.  How could something that big be in the sky?
The lights must have been extremely bright to shine through the
clouds as they did. I am a mother of four grown children I am a
pharmacy assistant and my husband is a supervisor at his work.
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director ufocenter.com



HELP KEEP THESE FILES COMING

Dear Readers - Filer's Files has been brought to you free on a
weekly basis for seven years.  As of January 2004, I have been
requesting a donation of $24 per year to enable continuation of
Filer's Files.  These files cannot exist without your help.
Donations can be sent to:  https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr
for majorstar.nul

You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master Charge.
You can also mail your check to

George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055.

Many Thanks for your donations


New Mars CD showing dozens of images at much higher quality than
available on Internet for $25. Just contact us at the above
address.


WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE!

Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real
estate agent to help your buy or sell a home.  To get a free
copy of this report e-mail me at : Majorstar.nul


FREE RELOCATION SERVICE FOR OUR READERS

If your thinking of moving or buying or selling a home anywhere
in the United States.  Let my wife and I help you.  Many of the
largest companies use our service.  Just contact us at:
Majorstrar.nul


MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL.  A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year.  To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/.   To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul  "The MUFON
Journal is now accepting qualified advertising, please call 1
(303) 932-7709 for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved.  Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web
Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and
list the date of issue.  These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint.  Send your letters to
Majorstar.nul  Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name.  Please state if you wish
to keep your name or e-mail confidential.  CAUTION, MOST OF
THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George A. Filer   www.GeorgeFiler.com/












   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

               Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information -

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:21:18 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:44:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information -


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:22:06 -0500
>Subject: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information

>It's important to note that the Mexican Secretary of Defense
>conducted a complete investigation with their own team shortly
>after the March 5, 2004 incident and also with the help of
>scientists and experts selected as goverment advisors. The
>investigation was conducted confidentially and followed every
>proccedure required.
>
>As the results were inconclusive, in the sense of identifing the
>nature of the traffic detected by the C26A equipment, the case
>was declared "Unexplained". It was not until April 20, 2004 when
>General Clemente Vega, Secretary of Defense decided, with his
>staff, to contact Jaime Maussan as an advisor to aid in the
>investigation to conduct an independent study and analisis of
>the C26A data.

<snip>

Hello Santiago and Friends:

The Brazilian UFO community is watching this case with lots of
enthusiasm, as we are in the very middle of a massive campaign
to request Brazilian Government to open its files about UFOs.

http://www.ufo.com.br/secrecy.php

General Vega is a military typw in short supply these days. He
was wise enough to understand the significance of the
information he had, and have it released to the world. Jaime is
certainly a lucky UFO researcher to have such an opportunity.

Please, Santiago, keep us informed.

A. J. Gevaerd








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                          Secrecy News -- 05/12/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:42:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:16:44 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/12/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 44
May 12, 2004


**      PHOTOS OF IRAQI PRISONER ABUSE SOUGHT UNDER FOIA
**      DETENTION AT GUANTANAMO: LEGALLY UNCHARTED TERRITORY
**      DSB ON UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLES
**      URBAN SUNRISE
**      FREEDOM OF INFORMATION AROUND THE WORLD


PHOTOS OF IRAQI PRISONER ABUSE SOUGHT UNDER FOIA

Photographic images of torture of Iraqi prisoners held in U.S.
custody, abhorrent as they are, cannot legitimately be
"classified" as national security secrets, the Federation of
American Scientists argued in a Freedom of Information Act
request for the images today.

Classification of criminal activity such as torture is precluded
by executive order, specifically section 1.7 of EO 13292.

In any case, "Disclosure of the requested information is a
prerequisite to achieving full accountability for the abuses
documented," FAS wrote in a FOIA request to the Department of
Defense.

The photos were classified by the Pentagon, said John Ullyot, a
spokesman for Sen. John Warner, and "only military officials can
decide to declassify and release them." (Washington Times, May
11).

National security secrecy aside, other grounds could exist for
withholding or modifying the images. These might include the
personal privacy of the victims, as well as concerns relating to
the prosecution of individual perpetrators and/or the
identification of intelligence officers under cover.

Public release of the photographs would raise "serious questions
about people's rights, as well as our ability to be able to
prosecute," said Vice President Dick Cheney in an interview with
Fox News May 11.

"We wouldn't want [...] to allow guilty parties off the hook, so
that they couldn't be prosecuted. By the same token, you don't
want to see innocent people inappropriately maligned by virtue
of the release of photographs. So it's got to be handled in an
intelligent, responsible fashion," the Vice President said.

But such concerns could be resolved by "sanitizing" the images.
There does not seem to be any legal basis for categorically
classifying or otherwise withholding all of them.

A copy of the May 12 Freedom of Information Act request is here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/05/sa051204.pdf


DETENTION AT GUANTANAMO: LEGALLY UNCHARTED TERRITORY

The fact that the Bush Administration has embarked on an
extraordinary, legally questionable course of action in its
handling of detainees at Guantanamo Bay has elicited concern
even within the U.S. military, which still shelters an admirable
diversity of opinion.

"With the decision to transfer Al Qaeda and Taliban captives to
detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, Cuba, the
Pentagon headed into legally uncharted territory," wrote Pamela
M. von Ness in a research paper published by the U.S. Army War
College last year.

"The military has undertaken an unprecedented prisoner operation
with an undetermined end-state."

The author's critique is her own; it is not an official view.
But it reflects a real and growing concern about the
government's apparent disregard of international norms.

"Thirty years ago, American prisoners of war were being
brutalized in North Vietnam, and an outraged American Government
sought to shame their captors into respecting the Geneva
Conventions. It reminds us that the issue is not about whether
we sympathize with accused terrorists. It is about protecting a
set of rules that protect all people, including American service
men and women taken captive in war."

See "Guantanamo Detainees: National Security or Civil
Liberties," by Pamela M. von Ness, U.S. Army War College
Strategy Research Project, April 2003:

http://www.fas.org/man/eprint/vonness.pdf


DSB ON UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLES

Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) "have at last come of age,"
according to an enthusiastic new assessment from the Defense
Science Board (DSB).

"There is no longer any question of the technical viability or
operational utility of UAVs," the authors wrote.

Yet "the overall pace of introduction has been slow. Indeed, as
of early summer 2003, only 175 UAVs of Pioneer/Shadow-size or
larger were operational throughout the DoD...."

Some UAV performance goals remain elusive.

"High altitude, long endurance, deep penetration, stealthy ISR
[intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance] is the most
difficult of all possible UAV missions," the DSB observed.

"This 'holy grail' has been pursued in many different,
classified programs over the past 25 years and, for one reason
or another, each program has been terminated."

See "Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Unmanned
Aerial Vehicles and Uninhabited Combat Aerial Vehicles,"
February 2004 (80 pages, 850 KB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsb/uav.pdf


URBAN SUNRISE

Urban Sunrise is not a new perfume. It is the name of an
ambitious DARPA-funded program to develop intelligence-based
simulations of military operations in urban environments that
will permit analysts to anticipate military outcomes.

"The complexity of urban areas poses both analytic and
operational challenges that are addressed by the Urban Sunrise
capabilities," a recent report on the initiative said.

Among such challenges is "the need for greater cultural
awareness of the urban battlespace including the intangible
information and cognitive infrastructures that describe the
flows of information across the urban terrain, and the
perceptions and beliefs of civil, government and military
populations."

See the initial report on "Urban Sunrise," sponsored by DARPA,
February 2004 (182 pages, 4 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/man/eprint/urban.pdf


FREEDOM OF INFORMATION AROUND THE WORLD

More than 50 countries have now enacted freedom of information
laws, and more than half of these laws were passed in the last
decade, according to an updated survey prepared by David Banisar
and published today on the website freedominfo.org.

See "Freedom of Information and Access to Government Records
Around the World" by David Banisar:

http://www.freedominfo.org/survey.htm




_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

               Similar Case To Mexican Sighting On NUFORC Site

From: Peter Davenport - National UFO Reporting Center <director.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:03:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:26:41 -0400
Subject: Similar Case To Mexican Sighting On NUFORC Site


To the List:

I failed to mention in my last post that NUFORC received a
report from the FAA on March 25th, which is quite similar to the
Mexican case.

The FAA Air Traffic Controller who submitted the written report
described how the crew of a passenger airliner at cruise
altitude over Omaha, NE, reported four disc-shaped objects
streaking past it, and pacing the airliner for an estimated 15
minutes.

The NUFORC site is experiencing some technical difficulty, so I
copy the text of the report below. The incident was confirmed to
me by the FAA Supervisor, who was on duty at the time of the
event. The objects did not register on the FAA radar, the
supervisor reported to me.

Peter
NUFORC

-----

100 Date: 03/25/2004
110 Time: 19:00
120 Duration: 20 min
130 Sighting City: Omaha
140 Sighting State: ne
170 Witnesses: 2
172 Shape: Formation
168 Number of Craft: 3-4

190 Description: I am an air traffic controller for Minneapolis
Center. This evening at 1900 the pilot of an air carrier that
was under my control reported two flights of two aircraft. There
were no other airccraft in the vicinity at the time. He said
they were 15 miles in front of him at 35,000 feet traveling away
from him in a westerly direction. The UFO's stayed out in front
of his aircraft for apprximately 15 minutes until the pilot said
that the UFO's were so far out in front of him that he could
hardly see them anymore. After being relieved of my duties I
reported it to my supervisor who put me in contact of the
Military Air Defense. The person at the other end of the phone
said that they saw no objects in the area of this aircraft.

180 Description: Air Traffic Controller receives a report from airline pilot
of UFO's
400 Lights On Object: Yes

-----








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                         News 'Coverage' In Seattle

From: Peter Davenport - National UFO Reporting Center <director.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:15:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:28:44 -0400
Subject: News 'Coverage' In Seattle


To the List:

On a lark, I telephoned the four major television stations in
Seattle to inquire whether their news departments knew of the
breaking story out of Mexico.  Only one of the news desks had
even heard about the story!


Peter

NUFORC







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

             Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:29:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:40:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:06:29 -0400
>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

>>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:34:04 +0200
>>Subject: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs


>>An auto-translationn (world.altavista.com) of Jaime Maussan's
>>Spanish page on the March 2004 Mexican Airforce sighting of
>>11 UFOs at:

>>http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm

>>is now available in PDF format:

>>http://mufon-ces.org/docs/040305mexicoufos.pdf

>I have read through the PDF and compared with the original
>Spanish. The translation is rough, to say the least. There
>appear to be sections missing from the text and the images that
>appear often have nothing to do with the text.

>Of particular interest is the evaluation by the physicist.  The
>translation is not good enough to make his arguments clear, but
>he evidently connects a "halo" around the images with a large
>magnetic field. I doubt that, although the objects may well have
>had a magnetic field.  I guess the most important aspect of this
>is that there is no explanation for the presence of infrared
>light sources (or reflectors of infrared sunlight) which can be
>detected on radar, which can travel along with the aircraft, but
>which cannot be seen from a distance of 2 miles in daylight.

Hello Bruce, All,

I have contacted Jaime Maussan to see if we can get him to
appear on 'Strange Days...Indeed' along with an air traffic
controller and one of the flight's crew members. Jaime is a
member/reader of this List. It should be possible for serious
research people, such as yourself, to engage him directly. I'll
do what I can to arrange it.

I will give the transcript a peruse, if it isn't too time
consuming a task, I'll try to tackle the translation from
Spanish to English. Better yet, I'm hoping to get these
witnesses 'on-List' so that they can make their own report in
their own words. Again, I await a response from Jaime Maussan in
order to get the ball rolling on all of this.

Note: It's nice to see a UFO report treated with seriousness
(without snickering or wise-cracking) on the news. Steve Bassett
did a good job reporting/commenting on the Fox News interview.


Regards,

John Velez










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 12

                              Mexico UFO On CNN

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:22:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:49:41 -0400
Subject: Mexico UFO On CNN


Dear Friends,

The CNN Headline News has been presenting the report of the mexican Air
Force UFO case along with a piece of the footage every half hour under the
title
" Are we Alone ? " They reacted interested in this breaking news. NBC, CBS,
ABC etc are also expected to follow the story as well as other countries.

It seems that we finally got into the major tv networks. Great news.

Santiago Yturria








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                        Mexico UFO On CNN - Harrison

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:09:51 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:25:54 -0400
Subject: Mexico UFO On CNN - Harrison


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:22:47 -0500
>Subject: Mexico UFO On CNN

>The CNN Headline News has been presenting the report of the
>mexican Air Force UFO case along with a piece of the footage
>every half hour under the title "Are we Alone?" They
>reacted interested in this breaking news. NBC, CBS, ABC etc are
>also expected to follow the story as well as other countries.

>It seems that we finally got into the major tv networks. Great news.


Hi  all

Australian TV have taken an interest in the footage. Channel 7
News aired it at 5.00 pm yesterday.

Bill Chalker was asked to do an interview with Channel 7 re the
footage and Australian UFOs.

Channel 7 is the 3rd largest station in Australia so I expect
the other stations will quickly take an interest in the footage.

Its great to see some positive media coverage for a change.


Regards

Diane Harrison

National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn.nul
E-mail: ufologist.nul
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD  Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

               Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:20:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:01:27 -0400
Subject: Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video -


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:55:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video


>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:19:03 -0400
>>Subject: Re: 11 UFOs Visible On Mexican Military Video


>http://brumac.8k.com/GulfBreeze/GBBUBBA.html

>Hi Bruce,

>This link didn't work for my. I got a 404 error "Page Not Found"

My error. Link is:

http://brumac.8k.com/GulfBreeze/Bubba/GBBUBBA.htm








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                 Re: The March 2004 Mexican UFO Video - Rue

From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:05:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:07:29 -0400
Subject: Re: The March 2004 Mexican UFO Video - Rue


>From: Sander Borghuis <gisoline.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:36:14 +0800
>Subject: The March 2004 Mexican UFO Video

>Further, I believe there was an earthquake that shook Mexico
>not long ago, I remember seeing the news. Was it in the same
>time same region? Just curious, I will try to find out.

The report from Maussan's research team says that there was
neither volcanic activity nor tectonic movement at the time
range of the sighting. There were also no electrical/magnetic
phenomena due to a power station or such in the vicinity.

Source: http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm
Rough Translation: http://mufon-ces.org/docs/040305mexicoufos.pdf


Best

Hannes










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                     No Conclusions By Mexican Military

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:17:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:17:06 -0400
Subject: No Conclusions By Mexican Military




Source: San Francisco Chronicle

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/05/12/internat
ional1329EDT6039.DTL


Mexico's defense secretary says military has formed no
conclusions about flying objects filmed by Air Force

05-12-04

MEXICO CITY (AP) -- Mexican Defense Secretary Ricardo Vega
Garcia said Wednesday the military had made no conclusions about
a series of brightly lit, rapidly moving objects filmed by Air
Force pilots earlier this year.

But Vega said neither had the military concluded that the
objects, visible only with infrared equipment, were flying
saucers as UFO investigator Jaime Maussan insisted during a news
conference Tuesday.

"This is Maussan's point of view, for that reason he was given
(the video) so that he could draw his own conclusions," Vega
told W Radio. "But that is his version."

On March 5, Mexican Air Force pilots videotaped the series of
brilliant objects flying at more than 3,500 meters (11,480 feet)
over southern Campeche state using a video camera equipped with
an infrared lens. Infrared equipment can only detect heat
emanating from objects; it is unable to provide an image of the
objects' exact form.

In the videotape, first aired publicly on national television
Monday night, the objects appear to accelerate rapidly and
change course suddenly. At least one crew member testified in a
videotaped interview that the objects surrounded the Air Force
jet when they were at least two miles (three kilometers) away.

The pilots sighted the objects as they conducted a routine drug-
surveillance mission.

Vega said he initially believed the objects were drug
trafficking planes, "but when I began to see that they had those
lights ... I realized they couldn't be such aircraft."

Maussan said the videotape was evidence of the existence of
UFOs. "This is historic news," he told reporters Tuesday.
"Hundreds of videos (of UFOs) exist, but none had the backing of
the armed forces of any country. ... The armed forces don't
perpetuate frauds."

But Vega said he had warned those under his command to refrain
from talking about "flying saucers" and UFOS when discussing the
video "because that just provokes doubts and jokes."

Vega also insisted that the military had not released the tape
to distract the nation from other issues, as some news
commentators suggested.

Vega said he decided to release the videotape because it seemed
pointless to guard it as a military secret and he did not see it
as a threat to national security. He said copies are available
for further revision by the scientific community.


[UFO UpDates thanks Ray Stanford for the lead]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                   Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:55:29 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:19:26 -0400
Subject: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir


>Source: ABC NewsOnline

>http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1106371.htm

>05-12-04

>Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir

>The Mexican Air Force has released footage of what a UFO expert
>said were 11 unidentified flying objects (UFOs) picked up by an
>infrared camera as they whizzed around a surveillance plane.

<snip>

Now this story has legs to go on. Jaime Maussan had promised
that he had some new evidence and he came through true to his
word.

What's important here is that we have advanced technical data,
corroborating testimony and above all cooperation between
military, press, science and the public. That's very unusual in
a UFO sighting.

Of course further analysis will be done but at present this is a
case where we have something we can study and use as a datum for
further reports and studies.

Tip of the hat to all!

Jaime Maussan is supposed to visit Los Angeles in June. The
people here are so excited to meet him you would think the
President of the U.S. were visiting. We have a small army of
people here who have expressed to me their gratitude to Jaime
because of all the good he's done for their friends and families
around the Spanish world. It's hard pressed to find someone in
the Latino community here who hasn't heard of Jaime Maussan. We
should have more people like him.

With this kind of evidence coming forth and some more data from
me coming soon regarding the big boomerang shaped UFOs reported
for years I'm sure we'll all be able to rest easy and separate
the chaff from the wheat in the UFO communities.


Best,

Greg Boone








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                   Re: News 'Coverage' In Seattle - Woods

From: Mike Woods <mike.woods.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:57:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:24:39 -0400
Subject: Re: News 'Coverage' In Seattle - Woods


>From: Peter Davenport - National UFO Reporting Center <director.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:15:43 -0700
>Subject: News 'Coverage' In Seattle

>To the List:

>On a lark, I telephoned the four major television stations in
>Seattle to inquire whether their news departments knew of the
>breaking story out of Mexico.  Only one of the news desks had
>even heard about the story!


Hey Listers,

I'm not too surprised. Although the Mexico sighting was news
here a couple days ago, it made the Drudge Report late Monday or
early Tuesday and at the newsroom where I work - CITY-TV in
Toronto, Canada.

We got our first feed of the actual video, from Reuters on the
8am feed this morning (Wed May 12) with a repeat on a later feed
at about 10am. CNN and its Newswire service, which provides on-
line video feeds to subscribing stations (like CITY-TV) didn't
feed the Mexico footage until _after_ the 10 am Reuters
feed... which isn't all that unusual.

So, if its a lazy newsroom that sticks only to the official wire
service and video providers... I'm not surprised to hear only 1
in 4 stations in Seattle had heard of it.

For the record, CITY-TV included the story in our 8:30am
newscast... then it ran every half-hour on our sister station
CABLEPULSE 24 starting at 9am.

The story doesn't sneer at UFOs or believers. I know. I wrote
it.


Mike W.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                    UFO Sightings: Real or B-Movie Fare?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:28:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:28:40 -0400
Subject: UFO Sightings: Real or B-Movie Fare?




Source: Hollywood.Com

http://www.hollywood.com/news/detail/article/1752748

05-12-04


UFO Sightings: Real or B-Movie Fare?
By Zena Zoltar
Hollywood.com Staff

HOLLYWEIRD -- Note to Hollywood: We need more flying saucer
flicks, and there's plenty of material out there.

"When an armed and threatening power lands in our capital we
don't greet it with tea and cookies!"

No, you haven't been marooned in outer space by mad scientists
and forced to watch sci-fi B-movies =E0 la Mystery Theater 3000.
It's not Mars Attacks!--possibly more like Close Encounters?
According to reports that surfaced yesterday, they may be out
there. Or at least over Mexico, anyway.

In honor of this week's DVD release of the ninth and final
season of one of our favorite series, The X-Files, the August
release of Alien vs. Predator and because we're fans of all
things B-movie-esque, we're bringing you this week's "news of
the weird" story of flying saucers spotted over Mexico. Frankly,
we're hoping Hollywood will pick it up run with it. Because who
doesn't love a great UFO movie?

You see, a Mexican Air Force surveillance jet patrolling the
Gulf of Mexico for drug trafficking (that's right=85patrolling for
drugs, not taking them) captured what appeared to be flying
saucers, which initially showed up as three objects on their
radars. The video shows 11 blobs of light that appear to hover
in a formation at an altitude of about 3,500 meters. (Watch it
here.)

Journalist (perhaps he should look into screenwriting?) Jaime
Maussan, a longtime believer in flying saucers, told a news
conference Tuesday that footage of what appear to be
unidentified flying objects picked up by an infrared camera is
indeed the real McCoy.

(Let's not leave out the fact that Mexico has a long history of
UFO sightings, most of which are dismissed by scientists as
space debris, missiles, weather balloons, natural atmospheric
phenomena or hoaxes.)

"They were there, there is no doubt about it," Maussan said
after showing a 15-minute video he said was given to him by the
country's Defense Ministry. "They had mass, they had energy and
they were moving about."

According to Maussan, the flying saucers--which could not be
seen by the naked eye--appeared to change direction and surround
the plane that was chasing them.

On the video, which was shot by the Air Force March 5 over the
eastern coastal state of Campeche, one of the pilots can be
heard yelling: "We are not alone! This is so weird!"

Maj. Magdaleno Castanon added: "There was a moment when ... the
screens showed they were behind us, to the left and in front of
us. It was at that point that I felt a bit tense."

A Defense Department spokesman confirmed the tape with The
Associated Press Tuesday.

"This is historic news," Maussan said. "Hundreds of videos (of
UFOs) exist, but none had the backing of the armed forces of any
country...The armed forces don't perpetuate frauds."

We always knew the truth was out there.....








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

             Re: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:36:30 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:38:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir - Boone


>Source: ABC NewsOnline

>http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1106371.htm

>05-12-04

Dagnabbit! No sooner did I send my first reply to this post than
a minute later the story was top of the news on KFI 640 AM here,
in Los Angeles! KFI is a huge station 50,000 watts I believe.

Everybody listens to this station throughout the southwest and
you could probably tune in from the Moon.

During the popular afternoon talk show 'John and Ken', the story
was highlighted and no sarcastic comments followed! Normally any
news story highlighted during this show fosters a comment in
one way or another from good ol' John and Ken.

Not only that, but the story is still on the front page of the
Drudge Report and at CNN's website for several days! Hasn't been
that much UFO press since the Phoenix Lights.

On another note, after reading the story again I was reminded of
an old 'Star Trek' episode called "Obsession" wherein Capt. Kirk
was convinced a gaseous moving interstellar cloud was
responsible for the deaths of crewmates in his youth. When on
another assignment years later, Kirk encountered deaths exactly
like those caused by this entity years earlier yet he couldn't
prove it was 'intelligent'.

Then, when the gaseous entity was spotted travelling in space,
Kirk pursued and fired his ships weapons at it and the cloud
then stopped, turned about and attacked.

Minutes later during the debate of it's intelligence, Mr. Spock,
the stoic right arm of Capt. Kirk pointed out that the cloud was
indeed intelligent because it turned and attacked.

Reading the Mexican military report, whatever these objects are
they dodged, fled, pursued exhibiting 'curiosity' - if one
stretches.

For my money, that's intelligence.


Best,

Greg Boone








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                             Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:48:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:41:04 -0400
Subject: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?


With all the dreadful news coming out of the War on Terrorism,
the abuses, the vengeful murders, ol' President Bush is
literally between Iraq and a hard place.

Yet this news is overshadowing the data coming in from the Mars
rovers and European Mars Express orbiter.

If I recall, Bush and Cheney made mention during their election
campaign that they'd look into the UFO issue. Carter, Reagan,
Clinton all said the same. Yet if memory serves and I don't mean
to get political, Republican Presidents have always been more
'action' oriented toward UFO issues. I know that doesn't sound
right and correct me if I'm wrong. I know Clinton ordered some
investigation but what came of it?

Eisnehower, Nixon, Reagan (and I believe Ford too) all were
somehow involved or made public statements and even put the iron
to the fire on this subject. I know Carter and Clinton promised
but didn't come through and have been silent on the issue.

So here we have an embattled President Bush with scandal
surrounding him and the UFO issue and life in space issue have
been rising to the top of the barrel.

Press says Bush will be making another speech about space
exploration soon. I believe it's his third in a year or two.
There's no way he can justify a manned mission to Mars as the
economy is in far too perilous a position, yet, what if he
opened the door a bit and disclosed strong evidence or proof of
life on Mars and the willingness of the present administration
to review and make public UFO data? This most recent incident
coming from Mexico may well be the catalyst.

That would launch a new mindset amongst the world's peoples and
spark an adventurous spirit we've not had before. It would
propell his administration into a new more positive light making
it a tough act to follow.

With today's news of light he sure wouldn't have to worry about
ridicule and scandal should he put a foot forward to UFO
disclosure. Things couldn't be more worse than they are now.

I guess it's like that old saying, "Nowhere to go but up from
here on!"


Best,

Greg Boone








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

             Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:49:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:56:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:29:36 -0400
>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:06:29 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

<snip>

>I will give the transcript a peruse, if it isn't too time
>consuming a task, I'll try to tackle the translation from
>Spanish to English. Better yet, I'm hoping to get these
>witnesses 'on-List' so that they can make their own report in
>their own words. Again, I await a response from Jaime Maussan in
>order to get the ball rolling on all of this.

Hope you can. We need the best information as soon as possible
so this doesn't go the way of late lamented New Zealand
sightings which began with worldwide interest that was
immediately dampened by stupid explanation by people who figured
that they didn't really have to have all the information before
they advanced an "explanation" (such as the guy in Canada)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                        Dr. Greer Getting Desperate?

From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:24:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:58:02 -0400
Subject: Dr. Greer Getting Desperate?


While I admire Dr. Greers efforts (despite his personality and
tactics some of you like to point out) I thought it was
interesting to note that he is offering his "antique" Benz in a
raffle to raise money for his disclosure project.

You can all read about it here:

http://www.disclosureproject.org/raffle.htm


Trevor












   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                       Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:32:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:03:10 -0400
Subject: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs


Earlier in the day I contacted our local FOX news station -
Channel 4 - Dallas - to see if they had heard of the recent
Mexican Air Force UFO sighting.

I had to leave for work before I received a response but when I
got home I watched a replay of the news to see that they had put
a 20 second report on the sighting. This isn't particularly
spectacular but what I noticed was that the demeanor of the
newscasters was quite calm but serious with the last comment
being "It makes you think".

Those 20 seconds seemed much more meaningful to me than any of
those lame docu-dramas that play on the Sci-Fi channel.

Can we create a new term? "Sci-Real"


Terry Groff

Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas
from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and
refracted the light from Venus" - Agent "K"








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                 VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:40:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:40:24 -0400
Subject: VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage




The recent Mexico UFO footage has burned through the monthly
bandwidth of several UFO-related sites, including VSN's
secondary site at virtuallystrange.com - which was taken down by
the hosting company when the counter reached giga-bytes of
staggering proportions!

This not only affected virtuallystrange.com but took out several
sites being hosted on the VSN account - including Royce Myer's
ufowatchdog.com, Wendy Connor's fadeddiscs.com, Ted Phillip's
Centre for Physical Trace Research cptr.us and ufocanada.net!

The load on the server was so great that it bogged down -
causing other sites on it to almost grind to a standstill -
attested to by other webmasters whose sites are hosted there on
my recommendation.

Mea culpa - my apologies to surpasshosting.com and to those
affected. I trust that we can, in future, avoid a reoccurrence
and quickly remove the suspension of VSN's account.

If any reader knows of sites still offering the March '04
Mexico UFO footage, please let me know.


Errol Bruce-Knapp
UFO UpDates - Toronto
The Virtually Strange Network









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

             Re: Mexican Military Acknowledges UFOs In Mexico -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 01:04:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:47:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Military Acknowledges UFOs In Mexico -


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:49:11 -0500
>Subject: Mexican Military Acknowledges UFOs In Mexico

>Mexican Department of Defense acknowledge UFOs in Mexico

>By Santiago Yturria

<snip>


Hello Santiago:

Your report is by far the most complete and detailed of those I
have seen so far. I have one question, you give:

COORDINATES: LAT N 18 deg 26.60' : LON W 90 deg 45.69'

I take this as 90:45:41W - 18:26:36N  (DMS notation) Checking my
maps, this places the actual event well to the East and somewhat
South of Ciudad del Carmen. One Gazetteers place Cd/Carmen about
91:50W - 18:37N (W = Oeste). This agrees with my paper maps.

If the UFOs were first seen over Carmen, how can this be?

Is there possibly a mistyping of the coordinates, or were the
objects actually halfway to the state of Yucatan? Is it possible
that the UFOs were first seen over Carmen, then lost from view
at the coordinates you provided?

I need to know this so I can properly map these events. I
usually enter the coordinates for the place where UFOs were
first seen. Any clarification will me much appreciated.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

               Mexican Sec Def Forbade Talk Of UFOs Or Flying

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:05:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:11:53 -0400
Subject: Mexican Sec Def Forbade Talk Of UFOs Or Flying


Source: Fundacion Cosmos AC
Date: May 12, 2004

"I Forbade Any Talk Of UFOs Or Flying Saucers"
--Gerardo Clemente Vega Garcia, Mexican Secretary of Defense

In a phone interview, Gerardo Clemente Vega Garcia, Mexican
Secretary of Defense, discussed the UFO sighting; "We track
furtive aircraft that could be the source of drug trafficiking.
This area is well-known in this regard. Only two days ago we
captured a small plane with over a thousand kilos of cocaine.
Our aircraft is the same one that locates such illegal traffic
and guides other air elements to enable their capture."

"I receive daily information on whta happens with these flights
throughout the Republic. This [the photo evidence] was sent in
for analysis, has no explanation, and I would like to caution
that we never spoke of UFOs or saucers or anything, only the
sighting of some very strange contacts that were
incomprehensible in this situation, given that there was nothing
at all flying in the air at the time, according to the Ciudad
del Carmen Airport. The devices record accurately a series of
luminous contacts."

"This was brought to the Secretariat of Defense. We analyzed it
with pilots, technical people on our staff, and we reached the
conclusion that there were two possibilities: we could file it
as a routine matter pending further analysis, or we could give
it to a person who knew about these things, whom we know is
Jaime Maussan. He came over, he was shown the video, he saw this
(sic) and it was given to him for use in his projects and to be
broadcast as he saw fit, without alarming anyone, since as you
can see it is already being said that its a distraction from
current affairs. That is not my purpose, nor do I as a military
man engage in such activities. I forbade any  talk of UFOs or
flying saucers, since that gives rise to doubts and gossip. I
will not engage in such matters."

[Interview conducted by Carlos Loret de Mola/Hoy por
Hoy News/Grupo Radiopol]

================================================================
Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Ing. Marco Reynoso, Fundacion Cosmos.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

              Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:13:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:14:57 -0400
Subject: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
May 13, 2004

Source: El Universal
Date: May 13, 2004

Skeptics Say UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons

The "Sociedad Astronomica Urania" of the state of Morelos
explains the possible origin of the UFOs seen over Campeche.

The Sociedad Astronomica Urania of the state of Morelos said
that the video presented by the Mexican Air Force could have a
scientific explanation if we consider that given the shape and
displacement of the 14 objects filmed, these appear to be a
group of weather balloons, such as the thousands launched daily
from universities, research centers or airports.

The astronomica society claimed that this type of obejct is
frequently confused by commercial or military pilots with UFOs
given the strong air currents that convey them and the lack of
references which would enable to determine their distance and
size.

Regarding the UFO video presented on television, the society
stated that more prosaic explanations could account for what was
recorded by pilots of the Mexican Air Force.


================================================================
Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Ing. Marco Reynoso, Fundacion Cosmos.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                           UFO Hit Counter Tripled

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:58:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:19:32 -0400
Subject: UFO Hit Counter Tripled


Hello All:

I have a simple hit counter on the main entry page (only) of my
*U* UFO Database website:

http://www.larryhatch.net

I log numbers to count visitors for each day.  Compared to the
same 24 hour period one week ago, my "hits" have more than
tripled for Wednesday 12MAY04.

Did anyone else see this? I'm trying to figure out the reason. I
wonder if its some change I made, or maybe just the news about
the Mexico air force sighting in Campeche state.  Did anyone
else see such a sudden jump in site visits?

Feedback please if you can.


- Larry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                      Re: Mexico UFO On CNN - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:35:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:22:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO On CNN - Lehmberg


>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:09:51 +1000
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO On CNN

>>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:22:47 -0500
>>Subject: Mexico UFO On CNN

>>The CNN Headline News has been presenting the report of the
>>mexican Air Force UFO case along with a piece of the footage
>>every half hour under the title "Are we Alone?" They
>>reacted interested in this breaking news. NBC, CBS, ABC etc are
>>also expected to follow the story as well as other countries.

>>It seems that we finally got into the major tv networks. Great news.

<snip>

Be not fooled! This is not the mainstream waking up, at last, to
see the alien handwriting on the wall! This is them dragged
kicking and screaming to the obligatory dock! Don't congratulate
them for deserved attention, that's like awarding a civil
servant for doing his job badly! This is all loss leader stuff,
anyway - a step forward so they can take two (...two and a
half!) steps back later on!

Hey look. I was a pretty successful soldier. I know the value of
an attack at a critical point. This abdication of responsibility
of the media ('our' eyes and ears damnit!) is one of these
critical points. The parallel occurrence of a major election
cycle and a mock Presidential election on major cable is
another... our universe quickens with an efficacious
synchronicity! It's time we start really slapping them around
with it, especially given that, for so long, they pee on our leg
and speculate on precipitation!

Anyway, now is the time to "see the enemy (of reason) driven
before you, and hear the lamentations of his women..." ...Press
the ideological attack! Speculate aloud and in print that it
becomes increasingly obvious the mainstream is a contrived sham,
a hypocrisy and a disservice in one messy dis-serving pile!

Don't congratulate them! Condemn them! They give too little too
late! Deny them their forecast backstepping later, snatch the
ground they give. Demand more! They're OUR eyes and ears! I
don't want mine lying to me even if that is the wish of
suspicious 'others' (who remain unconvincing that they have ever
had _my_ best interest at heart about anything!)!


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

              Why Mexican Scientists Did Not Get UFO Evidenece

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:37:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:38:39 -0400
Subject: Why Mexican Scientists Did Not Get UFO Evidenece



Source: Fundacion Cosmos AC and Milenio de Monterrey
Date: May 12, 2004

"Material Not Turned Over to Scientists Because We Do Not Know
Them"

Suspicious that SEDENA did not turn over the video to scientists

The videos showing strange objects picked up by military
aircraft were turned over to Jaime Maussan because he is a
person "who has been interested all of his life" in the study of
said phenomena, and was not given to scientists from
institutions of higher learning "perhaps because we do not know
them  or know who they might be," according to General Gerardo
Clemente Vega Garcia, Secretary of Defense.

"I have no objections to scientists analyzing this and seeing
it, nor do I have any reason to wonder why we didn't turn it
over to them--perhaps because we do not know them or know who
they migh be. Under no circumstances can I suspect any bad faith
in the matter," said Vega with regard to the statements
collected by MILENIO regarding the delivery of evidence to the
UFO researcher, rather than requesting validation from
scientifica organizations.

The Defense Secretary likewise rejected that this could be a
distraction on the part of the federal government, as some
policy watchers have suggested, especially as the Ahumada case
reached its zenith and affected diplomatic relations with Cuba.
"I don't engage in such things, "said the military man.

In an interview with the "Hoy por Hoy" radio show hosted by
Carlos Loret de Mola, Vega Gacia remarked that upon seeing the
recording "I thought that  with  the amount of drug traffic in
the southeast, these could be drug-carrying aircraft. That was
my first impression, because we are constantly working on this.
Two days ago we captured a private plane with drugs, but when I
discerned it along with (other experts), seeing the lights
behind the airplane, its nose and its sides, I told myself there
couldn' t be so many aircraft."

He added that "of course, the phenomenon is unexplained" and
made it clear that Mexican military personnel "never speak of
UFOs or saucers or anything like that--only the sighting of very
strange contacts, incomprehensible in that situation, since
there was absolutely nothing flying in the area, accoridng to
reports from the Ciudad del Carmen, Campeche airport."

The Defense Secretary acknkowledged that there were those who
said that "we are here to distract the public's attention from
the current situation. That is not my purpose, nor do I as a
military man engage in such things."

He acknowledged, however, that there are those who believe in a
distraction theory "and have the right to think as freely as the
may, but I can guarantee that there is no effort of such a
nature."

It was remarked that it is unusual for a government or military
agency such as de Secretariat of Defense (SEDENA) to take the
decision to publish a document of such a nature. He was asked if
he had any personal hypothesis about what is shown in the
recordings. He replied: "I have no hypothesis. All I can say is
that those white spots are there, they were recorded, and that
is all the informaiton we have."

Finally, he pointed out that this "can in no way" be considered
a matter of national security, acknowledging that in the U.S.
there is much talk about sightings all over the world. "There is
a community interested in seeing this, but that is far from me.
All I do is make the media available. There it is--there are no
complications nor is there anything extraordinary about it,"
adding that if any researcher or scientist is interested in
seeing the material, it will be at their disposal at SEDENA.

Translation (c) Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology.
Special thanks to Ing. Marco Reynoso.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

               Unseen UFOs Photographed In Spain During Easter

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:55:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:08:19 -0400
Subject: Unseen UFOs Photographed In Spain During Easter


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
May 13, 2004

Invisible UFOs Photographed During Easter Processions

The religious fervor attached to the itinerary of holy images
causes thousands of citizens to take to the streets of Malaga to
recall the passion of Christ. Simultaneously with this religious
fervor, sightings of UFOs tend to occur, crossing the skies and
imperceptible to the human eye.

Malaga, Spain: On Wednesday, April 7 2004 at 16;30 hours, the
procession of the Cofrad=EDa de Nazarenos del Santo Cristo de las
Penas, as is its yearly custom, issues from the parish of Divina
Pastora in the Capuchinos neighborhood.

The event occurred between 18:30 and 18:45 hours along a stretch
of their tour parallel to the Guadalmedina River, specifically
as they pasted through Pasillo Santa Isable, where Rainor1 had
the chance to approach the image of the crucified Christ from
various angles using the sky as a backdrop.

"This was possible because there weren't too many spectators
present, unlike other larger ones such as the Cautivo one, to
whom many miracles have been ascribed here in Malaga," said the
photographer.

Rainor claims that after transferring the images to a computer
and having inspected them one by one, he realized that the
camarea had picked up somehting that was not seen at the time
neither by he nor anyone present during the procession.

To the right of the photo can be seen the technical
characteristics under which it was taken: it was taken facing
the river and the Trinidad district on the other side of the
bridge. Said evidence was recorded on photo No. 212 out of total
of 260 taken that afternoon. A SONY Cybershot Model P-31 (2
megapixels) was employed. "Weather conditions were a clear sky
that allowed for light and heat."

Sunset in Malaga tends to occur at around 8:45 pm this time of
year  (GMT 2)

Source: www.ovniaventura.com

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Ing. Marco Reynoso







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 13

                      Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:34:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:13:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Kaeser


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:48:52 EDT
>Subject: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>With all the dreadful news coming out of the War on Terrorism,
>the abuses, the vengeful murders, ol' President Bush is
>literally between Iraq and a hard place.

<snip>

Sure. The aliens will land and Bush will discover that they
aren't a voting democracy and feel obligated to correct the
situation.  I'm not sure I'd want Bush on our side.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage -

From: Scott Caput <scaput.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 9:19:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:56:10 -0400
Subject: Re: VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage -


>The recent Mexico UFO footage has burned through the monthly
>bandwidth of several UFO-related sites, including VSN's
>secondary site at virtuallystrange.com - which was taken down by
>the hosting company when the counter reached giga-bytes of
>staggering proportions!


Good morning Errol and List,

This morning on the Drudge Report I found the following link to
a TV station that is carrying the footage.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/3298166/detail.html

Pretty interesting video.


Scott Caput








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                   Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:38:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:58:25 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Maccabee


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:58:18 -0700
>Subject: UFO Hit Counter Tripled


>Hello All:

>I have a simple hit counter on the main entry page (only) of my
>*U* UFO Database website:

>http://www.larryhatch.net

>I log numbers to count visitors for each day.  Compared to the
>same 24 hour period one week ago, my "hits" have more than
>tripled for Wednesday 12MAY04.

>Did anyone else see this? I'm trying to figure out the reason. I
>wonder if its some change I made, or maybe just the news about
>the Mexico air force sighting in Campeche state.  Did anyone
>else see such a sudden jump in site visits?

>Feedback please if you can.

WOW! Yes, indeed. Jumped from an average of about 150 per day
for May 5 - 10 to 250 on May 11 and 920 on May 12! Already 300
today (10 AM EST)

Too bad I didn't have anything about this case on my site. Will
remedy that right away!








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:47:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:00:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Boone


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:32:06 -0500
>Subject: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs

>Earlier in the day I contacted our local FOX news station -
>Channel 4 - Dallas - to see if they had heard of the recent
>Mexican Air Force UFO sighting.

>I had to leave for work before I received a response but when I
>got home I watched a replay of the news to see that they had put
>a 20 second report on the sighting. This isn't particularly
>spectacular but what I noticed was that the demeanor of the
>newscasters was quite calm but serious with the last comment
>being "It makes you think".

>Those 20 seconds seemed much more meaningful to me than any of
>those lame docu-dramas that play on the Sci-Fi channel.

>Can we create a new term? "Sci-Real"


You've noticed that too Terry!

Yes indeedy! This is the first UFO story I've ever heard of that
is making the news people stand back and take notice and none of
the normal sarcastic bastard attitudes!

I'm astounded! Literally astounded!

Again it was a top story here in Los Angeles on the KFI station!
Bill Handel the talk show host and reknowned for his sarcastic
and biting commentary started out his newscast with this story
and as is his form started out sarcastically until he got to the
part about the images being caught by infra-red. Suddenly there
was this ominous silence and immediate change of venue!

Knocked me out of bed! First time I've ever heard Bill Handel
shut up! He actually shut up and read the rest of the story as
straight faced as he could be!

Man, this is a field day for UFOlogy and it ain't over yet!


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                       Re: Mexico UFO On CNN - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:14:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:02:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO On CNN - Kaeser


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:35:27 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO On CNN

>>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:09:51 +1000
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO On CNN

>>>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:22:47 -0500
>>>Subject: Mexico UFO On CNN

>>>The CNN Headline News has been presenting the report of the
>>>mexican Air Force UFO case along with a piece of the footage
>>>every half hour under the title "Are we Alone?" They
>>>reacted interested in this breaking news. NBC, CBS, ABC etc are
>>>also expected to follow the story as well as other countries.

>>>It seems that we finally got into the major tv networks. Great news.

<snip>

>Don't congratulate them! Condemn them! They give too little too
>late! Deny them their forecast backstepping later, snatch the
>ground they give. Demand more! They're OUR eyes and ears! I
>don't want mine lying to me even if that is the wish of
>suspicious 'others' (who remain unconvincing that they have ever
>had _my_ best interest at heart about anything!)!


I think Pogo said it best...  "I have seen the enemy, and it
am us!"

The media is a reflection of the general population, and not
some nefarious "One World" entity or the Government. If one
wants to promote that lunacy, you should post evidence to that
effect. Platitudes aren't evidence and I'm not sure that Errol
ever intended this forum to become a political discussion group.

Steve








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                Wilbert B. Smith & Canada's Search For Flying

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:16:54 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:04:42 -0400
Subject: Wilbert B. Smith & Canada's Search For Flying


For those interested:

The third compilation in the on-going Audio History of Ufology
Series has been completed and is now available.

Titled, "Project Magnet: Wilbert B. Smith and Canada's Search
for Flying Saucers," it contains six hours of audio in MP3. All
known W. B. Smith recordings are covered, as well as several
Canadian UFO incidents from the 1960s.

This series is being produced in limited quantities in order for
me to devote more time preparing other compilations. Less than
10 copies remain available from the first two compilations.
These titles are no longer being produced.

Contact fadeddiscs.nul for ordering details or they can
be obtained through Arcturus Books.

Please remember that these are MP3 audio format and will not
work in standard CD players. They were designed for researchers
to use on their computer, but will play in most newer DVD
players.


Thank you,

Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                     Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:54:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:10:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Stanford


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:48:52 EDT
>Subject: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>With all the dreadful news coming out of the War on Terrorism,
>the abuses, the vengeful murders, ol' President Bush is
>literally between Iraq and a hard place.

<snip>

>Press says Bush will be making another speech about space
>exploration soon. I believe it's his third in a year or two.
>There's no way he can justify a manned mission to Mars as the
>economy is in far too perilous a position, yet, what if he
>opened the door a bit and disclosed strong evidence or proof of
>life on Mars and the willingness of the present administration
>to review and make public UFO data? This most recent incident
>coming from Mexico may well be the catalyst.

>That would launch a new mindset amongst the world's peoples and
>spark an adventurous spirit we've not had before. It would
>propell his administration into a new more positive light making
>it a tough act to follow.

>With today's news of light he sure wouldn't have to worry about
>ridicule and scandal should he put a foot forward to UFO
>disclosure. Things couldn't be more worse than they are now.

>I guess it's like that old saying, "Nowhere to go but up from
>here on!"

I suspect you are far too optimistic. The fly in the ointment in
the Mexico case (as fascinating as it may be to many) is that
despite radar tracking and infrared images, nothing was ever
seen visually (i.e, via wavelengths of light visible through the
human eye). I am confident there's at least one (and probably a
flock of) gringo 'pelican'(s) heating up frying pans for some
tirade about anomalous atmospheric refraction capable of both
causing false radar returns and of producing propagationally
anomalous 'hot spots' around the aircraft produced by anything
from fires on the ground to overcooked tortillas or refractions
from hot dishes of huachinango Veracruzano (a delicious redfish
dish)! :)

Yes, that kind of desperation could easily prevail despite the
fact that the U.S. already has jet-propelled stealth aircraft
with variable exhaust configurations and surface lighting
systems that make the body of the aircraft quite unnoticeable to
the human eye (possibly by simulating the appearance of
background sky).

Am I relying on rumors from some article in, say, Popular
Science magazine to make that statement? Of course not! Uncle
Sam had at least one such aircraft in the bomber size category
by the late 1980s. Back then, my wife and I tracked visually,
and I took numerous good photographs of such a thing (Bomber-
size estimate is based on its angular size as photographed from
the ground when at altitude high enough for condensation wakes
to form.) via 20-X telephoto at 1/4,000 second shutter speed,
visually evident only due to its remarkable stealthy,
configuration-varying multiple contrails. Even through the
powerful telephoto lens, no aircraft was noticed, but when my
best, very sharp (due to shutter speed) photos are examined, one
can seemingly make out a strangely shaped aircraft in front of
those trails, and see even more that is revealing (but no
conventional wing-tip or other ordinary aircraft lights).

No, this was not a case of an aircraft being so high that we
could only see its contrails due to atmospherics. Anyone who
could see the photos would be as sure of that as we are.

We saw and photographed the thing on Saturday, and the very next
Monday (third day later) when my wife got to her office, several
employees of NASA Goddard Space Flight Center were asking
whether their colleagues had seen (on that Monday morning),
"Those strange contrails this morning, with no aircraft visible
in front of them!" In other words, the thing was again in the
area three days later. Both the multi-witness Saturday visual-
photographic event and the multi-witness Monday events occurred
in the metropolitan Washington, D.C. area. One might wonder
whether someone might have been demonstrating a new visual
stealth capability to some important people at the Pentagon. :)

Well, anyhow, my point is this: Since in 1989 Uncle Sam (aka,
the U.S. government) could make a large, seemingly bomber-sized
aircraft invisible (except by its oddly variable contrails) to
the casual observer, it should hardly seem incredible that some
real or hypothetical intelligence could do an even better job at
visual stealth (human-eye invisibility) on vehicles that
maneuvered better, reportedly, than our best aircraft, as may
have been evident in the Mexico event.

I would even go so far as to suspect that some pelican might
even suggest it was just the US military down there in the
Campeche area testing out the visual stealth capabilities of a
few ultra-secret aircraft out of Nevada on Mexican pilots, than
admit that E.T. alien craft might have been responsible for what
was tracked on radar and via infrared scanning system.
Personally, I don't think Uncle Sam would test six, nine, or
however many, ultra-secret aircraft at one time due to the
potential risks involved.

As to the 'pelicans' down in Mexico screaming their panicked
heads off, "Weather balloons!", I would just ask why
meteorologists would need to send up so many weather balloons in
one area. :) Furthermore, let's see them explain how those
weather balloons are invisible to the eye but so bight in
infrared! Some awfully amazing maneuvers were reportedly made by
those weather balloons, too!

When weather balloons start 'ganging up' on aircraft, we'd all
better 'head for the hills' or else to the mental institutions.

But back to my original point: I suspect it would be a mistake
to get our hopes too high about this case being some magical key
that could open official doors in the U.S.A. We are under what
is possibly the most information-repressive administration in
history, whether we consider that unjustifiable or justifiable,
under the 'terrorist threat'.

All you need is one high-level pelican to squawk out some
'explanation' that sounds to the uninformed to be 'scientific',
and the media will write off the whole thing. After all
chauvinists news writers have already commented that it happened
in Mexico, where, so they tell us, all sorts of impossible
things are reported constantly.


Ray Stanford







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                       A Traumatic Event - Abduction?

From: Brian Vike - HBCC <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:50:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:12:46 -0400
Subject: A Traumatic Event - Abduction?


Good day Everyone,

First of all, I have a lot to key on the case I am about to
talk about.

A ton of folks have written to me asking what happened to my
website. My site is down, or queued at this time and should be
back up and running soon. More room and band width have been
added, but the main reason why it is off the net right now is to
increase the security due to some wonderful people hacking the
site. So keep checking back as it will be up and running
shortly.

A Traumatic Event - Abduction ?

At 6:55 p.m. last night a lady called me just 5 minutes prior to
me doing a radio show. The lady said she wanted to tell me about
some marks that she has on her leg. At the time I had no idea
what was yet to come, so I asked her if it would be ok if I
called her back straight after the show I was about to do.

An hour later I picked up the telephone and gave her a call. She
resides in Okalahoma in the U.S. To make a long story short for
now is that when she was at a younger age a traumatic event had
taken place where she lost all memory. She did not know who her
parents were or any other family member. She had no knowledge of
her surroundings, who she was, where she was, etc..

Now at 54 years of age she is still baffled as to what would
have caused such an event. At certain times in her life she
would awake to extremely bad bruising and cuts covering her
body. Of course this was upsetting not knowing where or what
caused this. Headaches, or for a better word sever migraines
have plagued her throughout her life. Some of the bruising she
received were in the shape of long slender fingers. On and on it
goes !

Was this traumatic event caused by a possible abduction or
something else ? One can only guess at this point.

Right now the only thing that is known is that at a young age, a
girl 'lost" everything she knew and had to start all over again
from scratch, becoming familiar with her Mom and Dad and other
family members not to mention everything else.

Anyway, full report coming on this soon.

Take care

Brian

www.hbccufo.com
hbccufo.nul








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 Re: Dr. Greer Getting Desperate? - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:35:39 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:16:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Dr. Greer Getting Desperate? - Connors


>From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:24:51 -0400
>Subject: Dr. Greer Getting Desperate?


>While I admire Dr. Greers efforts (despite his personality and
>tactics some of you like to point out) I thought it was
>interesting to note that he is offering his "antique" Benz in a
>raffle to raise money for his disclosure project.

<snip>

Trevor,

What's so interesting about Greer's sacrifice? I can name five
top Ufologists who have given everything they own to Ufology and
have received Squat for their contributions.

Greer's a monumental grifter in my opinion, and people who sleep
in his camp become tainted and lose their right to legitimacy in
Ufology.


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:37:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:21:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:13:04 -0400
>Subject: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"

>INEXPLICATA
>The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
>May 13, 2004

>Source: El Universal
>Date: May 13, 2004

>Skeptics Say UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons

>The "Sociedad Astronomica Urania" of the state of Morelos
>explains the possible origin of the UFOs seen over Campeche.

>The Sociedad Astronomica Urania of the state of Morelos said
>that the video presented by the Mexican Air Force could have a
>scientific explanation if we consider that given the shape and
>displacement of the 14 objects filmed, these appear to be a
>group of weather balloons, such as the thousands launched daily
>from universities, research centers or airports.

<snip>

Oh! Of course. That has to be it. Eleven University weather
balloons decided to have a 'meet-and-greet' over Campeche. I
suppose the owners of these 'balloons" have come forward to
explain how they trained them to fly in formation, change
direction and then surround an Air Force plane.


Terry Groff
Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas
from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and
refracted the light from Venus" - Agent "K"








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                        Sites With Mexico UFO Footage

From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:48:36 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:24:09 -0400
Subject: Sites With Mexico UFO Footage



http://www.aliensthetruth.com/movies/mexicanairforceufo.zip

http://www.ufocasebook.com/mexicanmilitary.html


Stuart






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:13:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:30:05 -0400
Subject: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico



Source: Newsmax.com

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/13/91044.shtml

05-14-04


UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

Charles R. Smith

Thursday, May 13, 2004 The Mexican Air Force released a recent
video of unidentified flying objects. A Mexican Air Force
surveillance aircraft searching for drug runners spotted the
UFOs, which were invisible to the naked eye. The UFOs were only
visible on a special infrared camera.

Journalist and long time UFO supporter Jamie Maussan announced
that the objects were real and "intelligent." The UFOs
reportedly changed direction and surrounded the plane chasing
them.

The Mexican Defense ministry confirmed to Reuters it had
provided the video to Maussan. The video was taken by the Air
Force on March 5 over the eastern coastal state of Campeche.

"They were invisible to the eye but they were there, there is no
doubt about it. They had mass, they had energy and they were
moving about," stated Maussan.

Buck Rogers

While X-files and UFO extra-terrestrial believers say the video
is clear proof of some form of spacecraft visiting Earth, the
sighting can be attributed to the Bush defense budget and not
little green men. The unidentified aircraft that shadowed the
Mexican surveillance plane are reportedly part of a squadron of
new stealth strike craft operating from the U.S.

The aircraft are equipped with special infrared light panels
that are only visible to special cameras or night vision gear.
The panels are used in formation flying outside of hostile
airspace to prevent the aircraft from colliding with each other
or with support aircraft such as refueling planes. The panels
are especially handy during aerial refueling with U.S.A.F.
tankers, allowing the tanker operators to visually monitor the
stealth planes in total darkness.

The UFOs were spotted on radar as they approached and tailed the
Mexican Air Force surveillance plane. However, F-117A Stealth
fighters normally operate inside the U.S. with special radar
reflective panels attached to their planes in order to be
tracked in commercial airspace and not attract attention.

The new stealth aircraft, working inside non-hostile airspace,
would most likely be similarly equipped with radar reflective
devices. The new stealth aircraft is said to embody the latest
technology, including special light panels designed to hide the
plane in broad daylight. The Mexican sighting confirms that the
U.S. Air Force possess more than one of the new jets.

Korean UFOS

Both North and South Korean sources have recently reported
similar UFO- like aircraft in the skies of Asia. The sightings
are almost identical to the reports filed by the Mexican Air
Force.

The North Korean official media outlet recently announced that
U.S. spy aircraft had violated the DPRK airspace over 200 times.
The new stealth aircraft has not been identified but the CIA and
South Korean intelligence have obtained new data on North Korean
missile deployments not normally visible from space.

The Kim Jong-il regime is busy building two underground missile
bases designed to house new medium-range ballistic missiles. A
South Korean intelligence official has told the country's Chosun
Ilbo newspaper that American intelligence has identified ten
ballistic missiles and mobile launching pads at two locations
within the DPRK - in Yangyok, near the North Korean capitol of
Pyongyang, and in Hochon in the country's south. The missile
bases are armed with extended range variants of North Korea's
SCUD and Nodong rockets, capable of striking Guam, Hawaii and
deployed American forces in the Asian theater.

The sudden discovery of the new underground missile sites and
the recent re-evaluation of the North Korean nuclear projects by
the CIA show that the U.S. has some very special intelligence
assets that can monitor, track and target the DPRK.

Utah Donuts

In addition, the recent UFO sighting in Mexico came within days
of a report of a classified aircraft powered by an impulse type
engine flying over Utah. The aircraft left a distinctive
"donuts-on-a-rope" contrail in a flight over the Utah Wasatch
Mountains.

The March 21st sighting of the pulser jet showed that a
conventional chase plane shadowed the classified aircraft, which
left a smooth, unbroken, contrail. A mechanical engineer from
Salt Lake City photographed the contrasting exhaust plumes.

A pulsejet engine was used during World War II by the German V-1
Buzz bomb, given its name by the distinctive burping sound of
the pilot less cruise missile as it flew to its target. The new
pulse detonation engine or PDE technology is capable of
delivering thousands of times the power of the simple V-1.

U.S. jet engine makers are currently experimenting with several
PDE designs. PDE engines use electronic ignition that forces a
powerful shock wave down the exhaust tube. The shock wave is so
strong that some of it actually bursts out of the front air
intake, creating a donut like smoke ring around the exhaust
chamber.

More than a decade ago, a similar classified aircraft was
spotted and photographed by observers throughout the U.S. The
aircraft left a telltale trail of puffs along a long contrail in
the sky. However, sightings of the pulser engine aircraft
dropped off during the late 1990s.

The sudden reappearance of the "pulser" aircraft, like the UFO
sighting in Mexico, is an indication of the increase in the
"black" budget of the Bush administration as compared to the
Clinton administration. Sources inside the Pentagon confirmed
that several super-secret aerospace programs cancelled or
cutback by the Clinton administration were revived by the Bush
administration in its pursuit of "RMA" or the "Revolution of
Military Affairs."

Fly Robot

The recent upsurge in U.S. black aerospace activity is also
evident in the unmanned field. Several secret unmanned aircraft
projects are currently underway including a stealthy silent
helicopter, a spy plane and a super-sonic strike aircraft.

Recent tests of the non-secret X-45 Unmanned Combat Aerial
Vehicle (UCAV) project have been very successful with the robot
plane dropping a simulated bomb and scoring a direct hit from an
altitude of 5 miles. The new robot craft are slated to armed
with a wide assortment of 21st century energy weapons including
a solid-state laser capable of delivering up to 20,000 watts of
power on a target, a microwave transmitter so powerful that it
will knock out radars and computers from nearly a mile away and
new pulse energy bombs that can burn out electronics.

Some doubt the UFO story being something as mundane as a new
classified jet. Others doubt the value of stealth technology and
wonder if the defense money is well spent. I am certain of both.

Lockheed aircraft designers once noted that the only way to know
if a F-117A Stealth fighter was around was if something suddenly
blew up. Yet, the F-117A is first generation stealth.

During a recent air show, I spotted a group of Chinese Air Force
officers closely inspecting a U.S.A.F. B-2 Spirit stealth bomber
on display. The PLAAF officers photographed and eyeballed the
stealth bomber from every possible angle.

"Doesn't that bother you," I said to the B-2 pilot, pointing at
the mass of PLAAF officers surrounding his plane with cameras.

"Nope," he replied with a smile. "It's the only time they will
see it."










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage -

From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:46:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:38:00 -0400
Subject: Re: VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage -


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:40 PM
>Subject: UFO UpDate: VSN Sites 'Blown-Out' By Mexico UFO Footage

<snip>

>If any reader knows of sites still offering the March '04
>Mexico UFO footage, please let me know.

The footage is available at "The WHY? Files". I have converted
to 3 Windows Media File format files for downloading speed
advantages. (Well under 1 meg)

See: Pilots' Sightings (page 3)

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk


Geoff Richardson







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                            The British UFO Files

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:59:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:39:13 -0400
Subject: The British UFO Files


Channel Five are to broadcast a new documentary focusing on UFO
sightings in the United Kingdom, and the way in which the
British Government investigated the phenomenon.

The focus will be on the Ministry of Defence's UFO project, the
views of government and military personnel, and cases involving
sightings by pilots. The Rendlesham Forest incident will also be
featured.

The documentary is entitled The British UFO Files, and will be
broadcast on Wednesday May 26, from 8pm to 9pm.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

             Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:17:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:41:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:49:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:29:36 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

<snip>

>>.. Better yet, I'm hoping to get these witnesses 'on-List' so
>>that they can make their own report in their own words. Again, I
>>await a response from Jaime Maussan in order to get the ball
>>rolling on all of this.

>Hope you can. We need the best information as soon as possible
>so this doesn't go the way of late lamented New Zealand
>sightings which began with worldwide interest that was
>immediately dampened by stupid explanation by people who figured
>that they didn't really have to have all the information before
>they advanced an "explanation" (such as the guy in Canada)


Hello Bruce, John all:

With all the various reports / emails going around, I'm
starting to get confused. I have a request out for the precise
location (clarification of coordinates) already, but other
things aren't clear to me yet:

1) Is it true that the pilots/crew of the MX surveillance plane
had no visual sighting whatsoever, not even lights?

2) IF so, may I assume that they were tracking the objects
on radar only? -or-

3) Were they also tracking the objects on their infra-red gear
in real-time as well as recording the IR images?

Clearly they had to 'see' the objects somehow, due to the
descriptions of how they retreated, and returned in greater
numbers.

- and for the Mexican sources:

4) How long have these drug interception flights been going on?
 I mean with these specific particular types of aircraft and
surveillance equipment (IR etc.)

5) Is the particular model infra-red camera something very
recent, or has it been in use for months or years?

6) Are similar aircraft, IR gear etc. being used along the
coastlines and northern border in addition to the Southern
states (Campeche etc.)?

Sorry for all the questions. I have listed the case, along with
a somewhat similar one from Omaha, Nebraska in the same month.
 (source: Peter Davenport). As aircraft encounters, they are
especially interesting.


Best

- Larry











   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

             Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:13:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:49:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:29:36 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:06:29 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

><snip>

>>I will give the transcript a peruse, if it isn't too time
>>consuming a task, I'll try to tackle the translation from
>>Spanish to English. Better yet, I'm hoping to get these
>>witnesses 'on-List' so that they can make their own report in
>>their own words. Again, I await a response from Jaime Maussan in
>>order to get the ball rolling on all of this.

Hi Bruce,

You wrote:

>Hope you can. We need the best information as soon as possible

I'll do it. Please be patient though. I'll be juggling time for the
translation with a 'bread-and-butter' (paying) job that I have to
produce on time. Give me a couple of days, I'll post the results
of my efforts to the List.

>so this doesn't go the way of late lamented New Zealand
>sightings which began with worldwide interest that was
>immediately dampened by stupid explanation by people who figured
>that they didn't really have to have all the information before
>they advanced an "explanation" (such as the guy in Canada)

A 'Mighty Wind' is already blowing in from the South and it's
attempting to blow you and me!  <g>

The Mexican "scientists" (whoever that unnamed/anonymous amalgam
of allegedly educated individuals may be,) has already floated
aloft the 'wayward set of weather balloons' explanation. Never
mind that these self-appointed representatives of modern science
rush to judgement while simultaneously ignoring the
reported_documented facts.

But wait... if you listen carefully you can hear the creaking
and popping of still more knees jerking!

'It's a bunch of flies passing an aircraft at 11,000 + feet of
altitude'!

No...

It's a 'Blurfo'!

No, no...

It's a string of 'invisible' intelligently guided weather
balloons!  <g>

No, no...

It's ET in His invisible to the naked eye, star-car!

We don't need to rush to judgement. Ever. If those "scientists"
were half as smart as they think they are, they'd know that!

I'll get to work on the translation and attempt to get it out in
as timely a manner as I can. Look out for it.


Regards,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                    Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:14:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:54:40 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Rudiak


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:58:18 -0700
>Subject: UFO Hit Counter Tripled

>I have a simple hit counter on the main entry page (only) of my
>*U* UFO Database website:

>http://www.larryhatch.net

>I log numbers to count visitors for each day. Compared to the
>same 24 hour period one week ago, my "hits" have more than
>tripled for Wednesday 12MAY04.

>Did anyone else see this? I'm trying to figure out the reason. I
>wonder if its some change I made, or maybe just the news about
>the Mexico air force sighting in Campeche state. Did anyone
>else see such a sudden jump in site visits?

>Feedback please if you can.

Larry, same here. The hits on my roswellproof website almost
tripled as well. The statistics page suggests that people
interested in the latest Mexican UFO case are doing searches
looking for information and stumble across my website in the
process. I have a sections on New Mexico and Texas UFOs from
June/July 1947, and the search engines are picking that up.
They're also picking up my Nellis UFO section since it compares
the 1994 Nellis UFO to the Mexican UFOs from the early 1990s.

If your website has "UFO" and "Mexico" on the same page, the
search engines are probably going to pick that up as well.


David Rudiak









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                The Black Vault Television Download Available

From: John Greenewald, Jr. <tbvfuture.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:28:20 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:57:02 -0400
Subject: The Black Vault Television Download Available


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

The Black Vault Television Download Available

NORTHRIDGE (BlackVault) - May 13, 2004 - The first "sneak-peek" sample
segment from the Black Vault television series is now available for viewing.

Visitors to www.blackvault.com can easily download the video segment and
watch it with a QuickTime player.

Titled 'Two Minutes to Nuclear Annihilation", the segment reveals the paper
trail uncovered by the Black Vault after investigating a story first
broadcast on "Frontline" by PBS about a Russian missile detection mishap.

In 1995, a scenario unfolded that triggered Russia's defensive systems and
began a terrifying countdown to nuclear retaliation. The Black Vault
uncovered documents that show we came within two minutes of a historic,
military and humanitarian catastrophe.

It is documents like these that will shine in the spotlight when The Black
Vault television series begins broadcasting!

For more information about The Black Vault television series and all the
declassified government documents available online, visit www.blackvault.com

Direct Television Show Link:

http://www.bvalphaserver.com/article13.html

----------

John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Headquarters
18127 Parthenia St. #105
Northridge, Ca. 91325


Sincerely,

John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Headquarters
http://www.blackvault.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                      Interview With Vatican Astronomer

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:17:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:05:51 -0400
Subject: Interview With Vatican Astronomer


Source: Astrobiology Magazine

http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=3Dmodload&name=3DNews&file=3Dart=
icle&sid=3D966


05-12-04


Interview with Brother Guy Consolmagno
Curator of Meteorites at the Vatican Observatory
by
Henry Bortman


At the 2004 Astrobiology Science Conference, Vatican astronomer
Dr. Guy Consolmagno discussed his research as curator of one of
the world's largest meteorite collections.

Dr. Guy Consolmagno divides his time between Tucson, Arizona,
where he observes asteroids and Kuiper Belt comets with the
Vatican's 1.8 meter telescope on Mt. Graham, and Castel
Gandolfo, Italy, home of the Vatican meteorites. The Vatican
Observatory established a research branch in Arizona in 1981
when the growing population of Rome made the sky too bright for
astronomical observations.

Consolmagno is an author, Vatican astronomer and curator of the
Vatican's meteorite collection. His research explores the
connections between meteorites and asteroids, and the origin and
evolution of small bodies in the solar system. His work in
asteroid and meteorite studies prompted the International
Astronomical Union to name an asteroid, 4597 Consolmagno, after
him in 2000. Dr. Consolmagno earned his bachelor of science in
1974 and master of science in 1975 in Earth and Planetary
Sciences from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and his
Ph. D. in Planetary Science from the University of Arizona in
1978. From 1978-80 he was a postdoctoral fellow and lecturer at
the Harvard College Observatory, and from 1980-1983 continued as
postdoc and lecturer at MIT. He has also spent several terms as
a visiting scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center and
as a visiting professor at Loyola College, Baltimore, and Loyola
University, Chicago.

Astrobiology Magazine's managing editor, Henry Bortman, had the
opportunity to talk with Dr. Consolmagno at the Astrobiology
Science Conference, at NASA Ames Research Center, Mountain View,
California.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Astrobiology Magazine (AM): I have to confess - no pun intended
- that I didn't know the Vatican had a curator of meteorites.
Can you describe what it is you do?

Vatican Observatory, Castel Gandolfo. The library at Castel
Gandolfo contains more than 22,000 volumes and possesses a
valuable collection of rare antique books including works of
Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Kepler, Brahe, Clavius, and Secchi.
Credit: Arizona U./Vatican Observatory

Guy Consolmagno: I do meteorite research. I'm also a planetary
scientist, and I'm interested in the origin and evolution of the
planets, especially the small bodies. I've worked on everything
from the icy moons of Jupiter, to the origins of the moon, to
observing Kuiper Belt objects.

AM: And how did you come to work for the Vatican?

GC: Long story. I'd been an astronomer for 15 years before I
decided to enter the Jesuits. And I did my undergraduate work at
MIT and my doctorate at Arizona. And at one point I wondered why
was I wasting my time doing astronomy when people are starving
in the world - a little voice of conscience.

So I joined the Peace Corps. While I was there, I discovered
that I loved teaching. But mostly I discovered that the people
in Africa, the people in Kenya, where I was, wanted to know
about astronomy. That's what they wanted from me. And they were
as fascinated and as excited about it as I was, as anyone in
America.

And I understood then why it's important. It's one of those
things that makes us more than just well-fed cows. It satisfies
a really deep hunger to know, to go someplace, to explore. And
that is a hunger that is as human, as basic to human beings as
food and shelter and anything else. And it's denied to a person
only at the cost of denying them their humanity. By telling poor
people, "No, no, you have to go hunt for food, you can't do
astronomy," you are saying that they're less than human. And
that's wrong. And it's a tragedy.

AM: Do you see the study of astronomy as a spiritual pursuit?

GC: Absolutely. When I came back from the Peace Corps, I taught
for four years, and enjoyed it so much I decided to teach full-
time. And so I entered a teaching order, the Jesuits. What I
didn't realize was that they were going to pull me out of
teaching to do full-time research at the Vatican. There's a
small group of about a dozen Jesuits at the Vatican. I'm one of
them. We come from all over the world. We all do just full-time
astronomy. But in addition, I do a lot of public talks and
things like my participation in this conference.

And the reason why the Church supports astronomy --

AM: That was my next question.

GC: -- goes back to, in sense it goes back to the reform of the
calendar, back in 1582. They hired an astronomer to work out how
to make the calendar work right. There's also a sense that the
Church, in modern times, wants to show the world that it's not
afraid of science, that it supports science, that it thinks
science is a wonderful thing. Not only to reassure the
scientists, but also to reassure the religious people science is
a good thing. Don't listen to people who say you have to choose
one or the other.

And there's two things going on there. One is the sense that, if
God made the universe, and he made it good, and he loved the
universe so much that, as the Christians believe, he sent his
only son, it's up to us to honor and respect and get to know the
universe. I think it was Francis Bacon who said that God sets up
the universe as a marvelous puzzle for us to get to know him by
getting to know how he did things. By seeing how God created, we
get a little sense of God's personality. And that means, among
other things not going in with any preconceived notions. We
can't impose our idea of how God did things. It's up to us to
see how the universe actually does work.

AM: Isn't the belief that God created the universe a
preconceived notion?

GC: It is. And it's a preconceived notion that in one form or
another every scientist has to have. Because here's the other
side: to be a scientist you have to have two fundamental
assumptions, so fundamental you don't even think about it. You
assume that the universe makes sense, that there really is an
objective reality; there really is a logic to this; it's not
just chaos; there really are laws to be found. We're so used to
that assumption, you don't realize it. A lot of cultures don't
have that.

And the other assumption you have to make is that it's worth
doing. If your idea, if your religion is to meditate and rise
above the physical universe, this corrupting physical universe,
you might say, you're not going to be a scientist, you're not
going to be interested in Mars. So it's a religious statement to
say the physical universe is worth devoting my life to. Seeing
how the universe works is worth spending a lifetime doing.

AM: Why is it a religious statement?

GC: By religious I mean that it is based on certain fundamental
assumptions you have about how the universe works and what your
place in the universe is. And ultimately, that's a religious
assumption. Whether it's my religion or somebody else's
religion, lots of people with lots of religions are looking at
science. I'm not saying it's only one religion that has that
assumption. But I'm saying that there are religions that don't.
There are brilliant cultures throughout history who have had
fabulous mathematics and glorious ethical systems - and no
science. It really is an important fundamental assumption that
you have to have, especially day-to-day as a scientist. It's
what gets you up in the morning.

You know, one of the scary things as a scientist is that you're
not punching a clock. There's probably nobody looking over your
shoulder to see if you're working today. It's only after two
years, when you haven't produced anything, that you don't get
the next grant and then you're out of a job. But day-by-day,
what gets you up, what makes you do the work? Why are you
excited about this stuff? And why do you think that it's worth
doing, when people are starving in the world?

AM: And what's your answer?

GC: My answer is the answer I gave before. That it's one of the
things that makes us human and, for me, it's one of the things
that bring me into close personal touch with God.

AM: You're at an astrobiology conference, and the goal of
astrobiology is to understand the origin of life on Earth and to
search for life elsewhere, including other intelligent life. So
let's just go for the big prize. Suppose another intelligent
species is discovered. What would that do to the Church's
beliefs about God creating the universe, and Earth, and the
creatures on Earth, and sending his only son - which is what it
says in the book - to this planet, where there is an intelligent
species, perhaps one among millions?

GC: There are five hypotheticals there. So, "I don't know," "I
don't know" and "How the heck could I know?" But, I'm also a
science fiction fan --

AM: Have you read "The Sparrow"?

GC: Yes, and I hated it. But that's a whole different issue.
Nobody in that book had a sense of humor. Nobody in that book
knew how to laugh.

But here are three scenarios. The most likely one: We find an
intelligent civilization and there's no way in creation we can
communicate with them because they're so alien to us. We can't
talk to dolphins now. In which case, we'll never know.

Second scenario: We find the intelligent civilization. We can
communicate. We discover that they have the two essentials that
theologians talk about for the human soul, intelligence and free
will. They know who they are, they're self-aware, and they're
able to do something about it. I think dogs are self-aware, but
they don't have a whole lot of free will. Maybe computers are
the same sort of thing. Human beings have to have both.

That means if you're going to have freedom, you've got the
capability of doing right and wrong. There is evil in the world,
that's an observed fact. There is the need to overcome evil in
the world. There's that need for salvation that we all have. I
can't imagine they wouldn't need it, if they've got the same
freedom we've got.

If you want to trade good bible quotes, here's one: The
beginning of the Gospel of John, "In the beginning was the
Word." The Word is, of course, Jesus, the Word is the second
person of the Trinity, the Word is the salvation, the Word is
the incarnation of God in the universe, who according to the
Gospel is there before the universe was made. The one point in
space-time that's the same on every timeline. So that the
salvation occurs and is made manifest in the person of Jesus
Christ here.

Is it possible that there are other Words in other languages to
other cultures? Beats the heck out of me. But that's scenario
number two. And people have talked about that for hundreds of
years, the idea that there could be other lives - this is
classic Catholic poetry. And that's what it is, it's poetry,
it's not theology. 'Cause it's so many hypotheticals.

A third scenario: We find a dozen civilizations out there, and a
bunch of Jehovah's witnesses go up and convert them all. At the
end of the day, every civilization is Christian, except the
human race is still not too sure about this. I mean, anything's
possible.

AM: But you left one out: They convert us. Because how do we
know they don't have an equally powerful set of beliefs --

GC: It's not like beliefs come with power attachments to them.
We can't even convert ourselves.

AM: All right, forget "powerful." A "deeply felt" set of
beliefs.

GC: Well, the only analogy we have is how different
civilizations on the face of the Earth have interacted as they
came in contact.

AM: The Church's record isn't so good on that one --

GC: Oh, it's a lot better than you think. It's a lot better than
you think. Don't believe the anti-clerical enlightenment people
who were spreading all sorts of lies to cover their own rear
end. It's the Church who was protecting the indigenous people in
South America, against the military.

AM: I don't think they were protecting them in California.

GC: Well, read your history. Am I saying they did everything
perfectly? No. They sure did in Paraguay.

The point is, if you're going to convert somebody, you have to
treat them as an equal. There are people, when they came to the
Americas, who thought that, well, we can enslave these people
because they don't have souls. And the Church said, "You can't
do that." If you're sending a missionary to somebody, you're
implicitly saying they're equal.

The other thing that happens is that each side learns from the
other, inevitably. And the sense of acculturation continually
goes on. It went on when the missionaries from Italy showed up
in Ireland. Irish sensibilities became part of the Christian
milieu. German sensibilities. Russian sensibilities. Every
culture has added something to the mix, and brought something
out of the mix. It's inevitable. You can't pretend that it's a
one-way street. Even if you wanted it to be a one-way street, it
wouldn't be.

AM: Let's shift topics a bit. What is the focus of your
meteorite research?

GC: My particular interest is actually the physical fabric of
the meteorite. Our understanding of the origin of the solar
system involves the solar nebula, condensation of a lot of,
essentially, dust. And we can picture how you go from tiny
grains of dust to maybe kilometer-sized balls of dust. But
that's not what we see in our museums. What we see are rocks.
Well-compressed, well-lithified rocks. When and where did that
happen? How did that happen?

So we've gone back and measured the actual porosity of the
meteorites, to look physically at the fabric of them.
Individually by looking at them in thin section and with an SEM
(scanning electron microscope), just point-counting where the
cracks are. But also in hand sample, in bulk, using helium
pycnometry and other methods to measure the densities. And one
of the interesting things that came out of that is that we came
up with the first really good set of meteorite densities about
the time we were getting asteroid densities, and we see that
they don't match at all. The asteroids are a good 20 percent
less dense than the meteorites, which has fit in with new ideas
that the asteroids are not big lumps of rock, they're piles of
rubble, or at the very least, very fractured rocks. So this is
telling us about the processes that went on four and a half
billion years ago.

AM: And why does the Vatican fund this research?

GC: There's a political reason. It's a simple one, that they
want the world to know that the Church isn't afraid of science,
that they like science, that science is great, this is our way
of seeing how God created the universe, and they want to make as
strong a statement as possible that truth doesn't contradict
truth, that if you have faith, then you're not going to ever be
afraid of what science is going to come up with. Because it's
true.

And the one time in history that they screwed up on this, the
Galileo affair, the Church was wrong. And we've admitted it was
wrong. How many times has science abused the Church? How often
have you heard a scientist apologize to the Church?

AM: Do you think that was the only time in history that it
happened?

GC: The whole scientific enterprise really does coincide well
with Christian theology. The whole idea that the universe is
worth studying is a Christian idea. The whole mechanism for
studying the physical universe comes straight out of the whole
logic of the scholastic age. Who was the first geologist? Albert
the Great, who was a monk. Who was the first Chemist? Roger
Bacon, who was a monk. Who was the first guy to come up with
spectroscopy? Angelo Secchi, who was a priest. Who was the guy
who invented genetics? Gregor Mendel, who was a monk. Who was
the guy who came up with the Big Bang theory? Georges Lema=EEtre,
who was a priest. There is this long tradition; most scientists
before the 19th century were clerics. Who else had the free time
and the education to gather leads and measure star positions?

AM: Okay, but you brought up Galileo, I didn't. Are you saying
that was a single incident, or was it a period of time --

GC: A bit of both.

AM: -- and if it was a period of time, when do you think it
changed, and how and why do you think it changed? Because it
took a pretty long time to apologize.

GC: Well, yes and no. You probably aren't aware of all the other
apologies before the most recent apology. Nobody knows really
why Galileo was gone after. You can read all the documents.
They're in translation in a marvelous book by Finocchiaro, "The
Galileo Affair". For most of Galileo's life he was lionized, he
was treated like a hero, including by people in the Church. His
book, "The Assayer", has the Church censor saying, "We're
honored to live in a time with a man this wonderful." When
Galileo got into trouble at the end of his life, it was a real
shock. It was a complete reversal of everything that had been
said up to that point.

And so the historical question is, why did it happen? And the
answer is, we don't know. You can go to amazon.com and find 300
books on Galileo, every one of them with a different answer.
Which is to say, there was something going on, and it wasn't
simply a science versus religion thing the way that Berthold
Brecht describes it in his play. If you relied on "JFK," the
movie, to figure out what happened in the assassination of
Kennedy, you'd be in as good shape. You've got to remember the
Galileo affair occurred at the height of the Reformation and the
30 Years' War. These were really stressful times in Europe.
Europe was falling apart. And it was a uniquely bad time for a
lot of people in a lot of directions.

Could it happen again? Of course it could happen again. As long
as there's human beings in the Church -- and the last time I
saw, most of us are -- and as long as there are human beings who
are scientists, there will be inevitable conflicts, there will
be people who think they know better, and there will be people
who will be right and people who will be wrong. The Church will
always make mistakes. Scientists will always make mistakes.
We're human beings.

But if you look at the whole sweep of history, for most of its
history, the Church has thought that studying science is great.
And there's been a fringe of religious fundamentalists - not
Catholics - who have tried to warp science to their particular
peculiar theology. In the same time, there have been a bunch of
science fundamentalists, who have tried to use science as a
substitute religion. And neither of those operations really
works very well. And both of them, I think, come out of a lack
of confidence.

The religious fundamentalists, basically, are scared that they
don't have faith, which is why they cling so tightly to what
little they've got. The science fundamentalists, I think some of
them just want to be taken seriously as scientists and they
think, well I have to show that I've rejected anything else.

So in that sense, science and religion are very separate. And
Stephen Jay Gould had it right up to that point in his book
"Rocks of Ages". But what he misses is that every human being is
a person with religious beliefs, who also is a scientist. At the
fundamental level -- Why do I do this? What am I looking for?
Why do I choose this question instead of that question to study?
What kind of picture of God do I get at the end of the day when
I see that the universe is not just a dome over a flat Earth,
the way that Genesis describes it, but is infinite numbers of
multiverses? -- what science does is expand my view of how big
God is. And as I said before, my fundamental beliefs of how the
universe works, which cannot be proved by science, are the
assumptions I start with before I can build a logical system.
Those assumptions direct what science I do and why I do it.

AM: What do you hope to get out of being here at the
Astrobiology Science Conference?

GC: Oh, having a good time. And, fundamentally, that's why we do
science, because it's really enjoyable. I'm also working on a
research project with Lynn Rothschild on whether or not life
could be transported in the pore spaces of meteorites. And so we
want to talk about that as well.

In addition, in some way, I'm waving the Church flag. Just by
walking around with this badge that says "Vatican Observatory,"
I'm reminding people that, yes, there is indeed a religious
aspect, and indeed, an ethical aspect to science. That's what
the session I'm participating in here is about - that we are
human beings, that we do have more than just science in our
lives. And the science is great and wonderful, and when done
right, is done not for money or for our own prestige or our own
glory but because we want to find out what's the truth. That's
the best way to do science. That's the most fun. One of the nice
things about being paid by the Vatican is that I don't have to
worry about NASA politics. I don't have to write grant
proposals. I don't have to find out what's the flavor of the
month this month. I can do anything I want.

AM: You don't have to worry about Vatican politics?

GC: Nope. They barely know we exist. My instructions when I
arrived there were: do good science, period.

AM: Does the Vatican fund research other than its own research?
Does it have a relationship to ESA (European Space Agency), for
example?

GC: No. The Vatican's actually a pretty small outfit, per se.
The budget of the Vatican is smaller than the budget of most
archdioceses in the U.S., because they don't have all the
schools and the hospitals and things. So the fact that we get
the money we get, which is probably under a million a year, is
still a substantial commitment, just to do science. But we're
the only thing they can afford to do directly. There's also a
pontifical academy of sciences, which are 120 great scientists
from around the world, any religion, every religion, who sit as
a group to advise the Vatican on issues worth worrying about.
For instance, in the 80s, they were the ones who got the Pope to
really speak out about nuclear winter and nuclear disarmament.

AM: Do you have any final comments to make?

GC: No. I don't expect to convert anybody here. I don't expect
to convert any aliens. If I can get people to think and if I can
get people to laugh, what more do I need to do?

------








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                     Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Hayes

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:19:11 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:07:56 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Hayes


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:58:18 -0700
>Subject: UFO Hit Counter Tripled

>Hello All:

>I have a simple hit counter on the main entry page (only) of my
>*U* UFO Database website:

>http://www.larryhatch.net

>I log numbers to count visitors for each day.  Compared to the
>same 24 hour period one week ago, my "hits" have more than
>tripled for Wednesday 12MAY04.

>Did anyone else see this? I'm trying to figure out the reason. I
>wonder if its some change I made, or maybe just the news about
>the Mexico air force sighting in Campeche state.  Did anyone
>else see such a sudden jump in site visits?

Sure did Larry and it's the Mexico sighting that did it.

Cannot give you numbers for the main entry page but overall hits are:

May 4th - 64841
May 5th - 64497
May 6th - 64497

May 11th - 98583
May 12th - 395333
May 13th - 50666

You can see from the above that increased hits started on
Tuesday. Will be interesting to see what today's hits total as
the figure quoted is probably only into the early hours.

The top search strings so far this month are:

ufo
ufo mexico
mexican air force ufo
ufo sightings in mexico
ufo in mexico
ufo sighting in mexico
mexico ufo 2004
ufo mexico 2004
ufo sighting mexico
ovni mexico
ufo sightings mexico
ufo roundup
mexico ufo sightings
mexican air force ufo vide
recent ufo sightings
ufo sightings
filers files
ufo mexican air force
ufo info
ufo mexico may 2004


Boy am I glad I did not put any images online <g>.


Best wishes,

John Hayes

webmaster.nul

UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather

From: Jiri Mruzek <JiriMruzek.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:35:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:21:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:13:04 -0400
>Subject: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"

>INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology May 13, 2004

>Source: El Universal Date: May 13, 2004

>Skeptics Say UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons

>The "Sociedad Astronomica Urania" of the state of Morelos explains
>the possible origin of the UFOs seen over Campeche.

>The Sociedad Astronomica Urania of the state of Morelos said that the
>video presented by the Mexican Air Force could have a scientific
>explanation if we consider that given the shape and displacement of
>the 14 objects filmed, these appear to be a group of weather
>balloons, such as the thousands launched daily from universities,
>research centers or airports.

>The astronomica society claimed that this type of obejct is
>frequently confused by commercial or military pilots with UFOs given
>the strong air currents that convey them and the lack of references
>which would enable to determine their distance and size.

>Regarding the UFO video presented on television, the society stated
>that more prosaic explanations could account for what was recorded by
>pilots of the Mexican Air Force.


Of course! Those were _Hot_ air ballons from Nasca! They had
more'n nuff energy to wake up the hi-tech infrared detectors of
the AWAC like military patrol plane.

Judgiing from the fact that they appeared to manouver themselves
around the patrol plane - those must have been steam powered hot
air ballons


Jiri


*http://www.geocities.com/jirimruzek/abyhelic.htm*
*http://www.geocities.com/jirimruzek/baalbek.htm <http://www.geocities.com/jirim
ruzek/abyhelic.htm>
**http://www.geocities.com/jirimruzek/namon.htm <http://www.geocities.com/jirimr
uzek/abyhelic.htm>*
*http://www.geocities.com/jirimruzek/atma1.htm <http://www.geocities.com/jirimru
zek/abyhelic.htm>*











   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                           Ode to the Mexican UFOs

From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:54:30 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:22:16 -0400
Subject: Ode to the Mexican UFOs


Where are the sceptics? Why are they so quiet? Why aren't they
saying anything?


Come out, come out
Wherever you are
You can't hide forever
You can't go far

Give us an answer
Give us a clue
Tell us why,
It's all not true

Maybe it's a Sun dog
Maybe a star
Maybe it's Venus
Oh Please! God save us.

I'm sure you'll start
It won't be long
Telling us all
We've got it wrong

It's Stealth on the loose
It's secret and black
Turn on the FLIR
Shit! Three bill. down the sack.

Do you need more time
To work on your thoughts?
Take a week, a month
It's par for the course

And then you'll appear
Strutting with dare
We all got hysterical
It was just a flare.


Oh well, now we know. Any further verses anyone?


Stuart Miller








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                       Mexico UFO Not Just By Chance?

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 23:24:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:27:53 -0400
Subject: Mexico UFO Not Just By Chance?


Dear Errol, List,

This is not a jump on the bandwaggon, it is providing of
additional information you may be not aware of.

For many years, many people around the world are working
spiritually here on this planet for two reasons: to bring back
to balance the whole planetary sphere and to re-establish cosmic
connections.

So have we, Hans-Juergen Kyborg and myself in England and
Germany in the past years. As a response to our work and with
the support of many native and non-native but likeminded
people worldwide, 'lights' appeared in the course of our
efforts some times and were witnessed by others.

In 1994, in the course of our activities around Silbury Hill,
three individuals were involved of a close encounter of the
third kind. We are in contact with these individuals.
Unfortunately, the have been mislead by 'jet set ufo
researchers' in the same year for a 'ufo-partytime' and, of
course, I am sheltering them now.

In 1995, three women were gifted by a close encounter of a light
sphere in the Cove, Avebury Henge, Wiltshire, which appeared
during a meditatin effort with teams on different locations
covering a triangle of nearly 12 miles in the area comprising
ancient neolithic sites.

In July 1999, the landing of an unknown flying light was
photographed at daylight on Woodborough Hill, Wiltshire, South
England.

In July 2002, we expanded our work on this planet into a global
meditation. The main goals were: to declare responsability for
this planet, to bring back to balance what is out of balance and
to minimize the negative energy of certain power centers by
opening positive energy gates above these locations.

After a time of considerations and waiting for 'new input' in
2003 we have started with new activities in January 2004.

At that time it was my intention to write to this list that one
should look out for possible new major UFO sightings in the
Spring and Summer because we would increase our efforts this
year. I did not do it because this list is honoured by me and I
would not cause headache of Errol by posting seemingly
unsubstantiated allegations.

So we continued our work remotely in January and the following
months by activating certain spots. We became an ally of Bennie
LeBeau, Spiritual Elder of the Eastern Shoshone and his friends
and supporters. Bennie has, with the help of many individuals
and groups, activated a big medicine wheel with a radius of 600
miles around the Teton Mountains on May 8/9th. This important
energetic structure comprises 19 sacred mountains, rivers and
lakes in the western part of North America. He was on his way to
achieve this since many month and his work increased since
February/March this year.

To shorten this email, I would like to state and to make you
aware of the fact that right now many individuals here on this
planet have taken action to link up to higher intelligences in a
most serious, non-religious, non-political, non-military way
only for the sake and healing of this planet, our Mother Earth.

I am fully aware that some on this list do not agree with what I
have written above (and I am sure that my German way of writing
is understandable for you). But you must take it as a fact that
'the other side' has spirit, too, and reacts to 'spiritual
approaches'.

At the moment, I have every reason to be convinced that the
increasing 'UFO-activity' in 2004 is not mere chance, is not
coincidence. At the moment, it is more reliably that it is a
direct response to the orchestrated serious effort of the many,
many individuals here to show that they have taken
responsability and action for this planet - the main reason why
we are here.

I would not wonder, if we will have more spectecular reports
this year. Gates are opened - such as the Grand Teton Medicine
Wheel - and will be opened as for example the one on July 26th
with the 'Project Toliman'. The change must come from within,
not from outside. We must help 'them' to help us.

Look and think - and please respond in peace.


Joachim Koch


-----------------------------------
More info: http://www.kochkyborg.de
-----------------------------------








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                     Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:28:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:30:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Lehmberg


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:34:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:48:52 EDT
>>Subject: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>With all the dreadful news coming out of the War on Terrorism,
>>the abuses, the vengeful murders, ol' President Bush is
>>literally between Iraq and a hard place.

><snip>

>Sure. The aliens will land and Bush will discover that they
>aren't a voting democracy and feel obligated to correct the
>situation. I'm not sure I'd want Bush on our side.


I know _I_ wouldn't. Words from his own mouth, he doesn't do
"nuance"! And nuance is exactly what's required, I suspect.

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely Alien

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:38:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:34:45 -0400
Subject: Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely Alien


Source: Idaho News

http://www2.kbcitv.com/x5154.xml?ParentPageID=x5157&ContentID=x53419&Layout=KBCI
.xsl&AdGroupID=x5154

05-13-04


Idaho UFO Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely Alien Craft."

By Scott Logan

BOISE - An Idaho-based UFO researcher says spectacular videotape
of purported flying saucers taken by the Mexican Air Force is
the real deal.

 "It appears from all indications these could be mother ships,"
said Ike Bishop, Idaho state director for the Mutual UFO
Network. "They are definitely alien craft."

Idaho 2 News spoke on the phone with Bishop, who was at the
world famous Little Ale'inn in Rachel, NV near Area 51, the
supersecret military base 100 miles north of Las Vegas where
some believe aliens and humans are collaborating scientifically.

A videotape aired Monday on Mexican national television showing
a series of brilliant objects flying at more than 11,480 feet
over southern Campeche state.

The tape was filmed March 5 by air force pilots using a video
camera equipped with an infrared lens.The objects appear to
accelerate rapidly and change course suddenly.

At least one crew member testified in a videotaped interview
that the objects encircled the military jet at a distance of at
least two miles.

Bishop says Mexico has a long history of UFO sightings and he
applauded the Mexican Air Force for making the videotape public
this week.

"The Mexican government is not afraid to talk about UFOs,"
Bishop told Idaho 2 News. "People don't lose their jobs over the
whole thing."

The pilots spotted the objects while conducting a routine drug-
surveillance mission. Only three of the objects showed up on the
plane's radar. Infrared equipment can only detect heat emanating
from objects. It is unable to provide an image of the objects'
exact forms.

After deciding it was no threat to national security, Mexican
Defense Secretary Gen. Ricardo Vega Garcia gave the videotape to
UFO specialist Jaime Maussan, who has spent 10 years studying
unidentified flying objects.

Maussan claimed Tuesday the videotape was evidence that flying
saucers exist. The video was especially significant since it was
provided by the military, he said.

"This is historic news," Maussan said. "Hundreds of videos (of
UFOs) exist, but none had the backing of the armed forces of any
country. ... The armed forces don't perpetuate frauds."

But Vega denied Wednesday that the military had made any
conclusions about where the lights came from or whether they
were UFOs.

"This is Maussan's point of view, for that reason he was given
(the video) so that he could draw his own conclusions," Vega
told a Mexican radio station. "But that is his version."

Bishop agrees with Maussan, and says his own investigation
indicates more and more stunning UFO sightings will come in the
near future.

"From what people have been telling me, 2004 and 2005 will be
the awakening years (for UFO sightings)," Bishop said. "In other
words, fasten your seatbelts."

Or as one of the Mexican pilots said, "This is all so very
strange."







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                         Precedent For Mexican UFO?

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:23:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:36:36 -0400
Subject: Precedent For Mexican UFO?


Pardon my ignorance, but is there any precedent for this case?
Has there been an instance where UFOs have shown up on infrared
AND radar before? Could this indicate a sea change in the
phenomena? Or perhaps something we've been missing for lo these
60 years?


Jim Speiser







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 Re: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 01:05:06 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:40:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico Air Force Video Creates UFO Stir


True to form the disinformation about this sighting is hitting
the airwaves. Guess it took em' a while to dig up some bullsnot
explanation to keep the public quiet.

Just heard on the radio that some expert somewhere said the
objects video taped were actually some form of atmospheric heat
thingamabob or some other quite common occurence.

Yeah, if you believe that explanation I've got a bridge in
Brooklyn for sale for you.

When do atmospheric phenomena dodge, chase, surround, avoid?

Some pretty smart atmospheric phenomena we have around these
parts!

Next thing you know the press will be reporting that clouds are
actually alive and that rainbows do indeed lead to the 'Land of
Oz'.


Best,

Greg







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                    Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 02:38:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:46:45 -0400
Subject: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack


Dear Friends,

In Mexico City a group of scientists from the UNAM, the top
Mexican University gave a press conference trying to explain the
mysterious lights recorded by the Mexican Air Force C26A  during
the incident of March 5, 2004.

In an improvised speech the group's leader Rafael Navarro from
the Institute of Nuclear Science of the UNAM announced that the
unknown lights were just luminous sparks of plasma energy, a
natural phenomena and showed a video of a recreation they made
in a laboratory of this effect trying to make a comparison with
the C26A footage.

With this statement Rafael Navarro disqualified  FLIR Systems,
Inc. (Nasdaq:FLIR) the multimillion defense industry of
Portland, Oregon and their winner product the Star Safire II
implying they are not reliable.

FLIR Systems, Inc. is one of the most awarded companies in
designing high defense airborne imaging systems, perimeter
security systems and reconnaissance and surveillance systems.

Awarded by the goverments of several countries with contracts
for millions FLIR has been distinguished as one of the world's
top industry in defensive systems.

Surely Mr. Rafael Navarro simply doesn't know of whom is he
talking. But the sceptic's press conference was filled with
contradictions among themselves, exposing their lack of
information about the incident and the C26A equipment data.

Rafael Navarro declared that the lights recorded by the FLIR
were merely sparks. Then showed the video they made in a
laboratory but the light recreated was did not even come close
to the FLIR images. The worst came when Navarro said that they
don't have any knowledge of a case where this phenomena could
appear in such high atmosphere and added that maybe this is the
first case in the scientific database. A contradiction.

Julio Herrera, another scientist of the group, declared that the
C26A incident was a very rare phenomena that deserves to be
analized more carefully. A complete contradiction of what Rafael
Navarro concluded.

Rafael Navarro and the rest of the UNAM scientists recognized
that they did'nt have access to the C26A data as well as the
FLIR footage and the RADAR information. They just saw what was
presented on television and then adopted their own conclusions.
A very reckless posture.

This improvised press conference to a very small audience was
a ridicule attempt to debunk the DoD case. The UNAM scientists
looked more like amateurs contradicting themselves and showing a
reduced knowledge of modern technology and advanced detection
systems. They made their statements just following the old book
but without contribute a single acceptable element to the
investigation on this case. A mediocre exposition and a ridicule
conclusion.

For all our friends that want to know everything about this
great case I invite you this next Sunday May 16, 2004 to our two
hours LIVE tv show Los Grande Misterios del Tercer Milenio
broadcast simultaneously on the Internet from 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM
Mexico Time where host Jaime Maussan will present for the first
time the complete investigation on the mexican Air Force March
5, 2004 ufo incident presenting the complete footage, interviews
with the crew, studies and analisis performed and a full review
of the story.


The link is:

http://www.jaimemaussan.tv/


Regards to all,

Santiago Yturria







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                     German Press Release On Mexico UFO

From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 23:57:15 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:00:23 -0400
Subject: German Press Release On Mexico UFO


Press release by the Society for the Scientific Investigation of
Anomalous Atmospheric and Radar Phenomena (MUFON-CES)

UFOs over Mexico

Comment and background information on the Mexican military UFO
video

Tuesday news agencies reported about a video shot by a Mexican
military reconnaissance aircraft showing eleven unidentified
flying objects (UFOs). For various reasons we are dealing with a
significant document: The witnesses have a high credibility
because they were specially trained to identify airborne
objects. The presence of objectively existent objects, remaining
unidentified after two independent investigations, is proven by
two different types of measuring instruments.

Since the objects reflected radar waves as well as emitted
infrared waves they can't be attributed to a system failure. If
the unidentified objects belong to class A (having solid
structures) or class B (being energetic entities emitting
electromagnetic waves, not having solid structures) can't be
said, because their structures remained unseen. But since the
objects were physically interacting with their environment, an
actual airspace anomaly was present in either case.

On sunday, May 16, 2004, the complete investigation data is
supposed to be presented in a two-hour TV broadcast as well as a
parallel webcast at www.ovnistv.tv.

MUFON-CES has prepared a comment on the events in Mexico which
contains many links and background information. This document
(only german) is at

http://www.mufon-ces.org/text/deutsch/mexiko.htm

Best regards

Illobrand von Ludwiger
Hannes la Rue
MUFON-CES









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                       Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Grass

From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:31:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:03:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Grass


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:34:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?


>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:48:52 EDT
>>Subject: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>With all the dreadful news coming out of the War on Terrorism,
>>the abuses, the vengeful murders, ol' President Bush is
>>literally between Iraq and a hard place.

><snip>

>Sure. The aliens will land and Bush will discover that they
>aren't a voting democracy and feel obligated to correct the
>situation.  I'm not sure I'd want Bush on our side.

I would highly recommend that if we truly want the politicians to
help us, we should not antagonize them with personal political
opinions.

RDG









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

             Mexican Scientists Dismiss UFOs As Meteor Fragments

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:32:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:07:13 -0400
Subject: Mexican Scientists Dismiss UFOs As Meteor Fragments



Source: La Cronica De Hoy

http://www.cronica.com.mx/

Date: May 12, 2004

Scientists Dismiss Campeche UFOs as Possible Meteorite Fragments

Mexican scientists consdiered the possibility that the alleged
UFOs recorded by Mexican Air Force pilots over Campeche are not
alien spacecraft, stating that there is no scientific evidence
to substantiate such a visit.

In an interview with Cronica, researcher Jaime Maussan, who has
studied the UFO phenomenon for over a decade, stated that the
video broadcast by Televisa shows the presence of "intelligent
life that has been manifesting itself on Earth for a long time
and hails from other parts of the universe."

He stated that humankind's depredations on the planet's animal
and vegetable life, aside from missions to other planets (Mars)
has caused an increase in "sightings of these objects, because
we have surely violated some code and they wish to make their
presence known."

He said that the decision of military authorities to deliver the
video "with the evidence" is unprecedented in the country and
perhaps in the whole world, and places Mexico in the forefront
of such matters, "since it is time that goverments pay attention
to these manifestations, which should be reseached objectively."

In the video recorded on March 5 by Air Force pilots, 16
brilliant objects can be seen as captured by infrared cameras as
they soar over Campeche -- static, aligned with each other, then
making sudden high-speed turns.

While scientists engaged in reconnoitering missions to detect
drug-traffic, their radar suddenly picked up a contact: UFOs,
which according to the witnesses, followed them for several
minutes.

The pilot's conversations can be heard in the video:

"Put on your seatbelts"

"Don't scare me"

"I wouldn't know how to identify it...buy they must be
completely real," said Lt. Mario Adrian Vazquez, operator of the
infrared equipment, who insisted that tampering with said images
was impossible.

Jaime Maussan called upon Mexican scientists to research the UFO
phenomenon in order to render an opinion and "not dismiss videos
a priori that show the existence of intelligence of unknown
origin" and that "astronomers or other scientist quit their
prejudiced notions and cease deriding those who have studied the
phenomenon and know that there is intelligent life present [from
other worlds] as fools, madmen, dreamers or mystics."

However, Mexican astronomer Jose de la Herr=E1n provided his
scientific arguments regarding the impossibility that [the
lights] could be alien spacecraft, as has been speculated. He
claims that they could have been meteorite fragments.

He explained that when a meteor crashes into the Earth's
atmosphere, it shatters into many pieces  which appear as though
they were static and aligned with one another as they give off
an intense glow. "And of course, people who do not know such
phenomena occur, interpret them in many ways upon seeing them.
For example, they can say they were alien spaceships by virtue
of having seen them."

Rafael Navarro of the Plasma Chemistry and Planetary Study
Laboratory of the UNAM Institute of Nuclear Science, added that
these are undoubtedly unidentified spherical objects shown by
the Air Force, but under no circumstances do they show the visit
of alien spacecraft.

The space scientist told "Cronica" that it is almost certainly
"space junk" resulting from hundreds of satellites burning up
upon reentry into earth's atmosphere after finishing their
service cycle.

The Mexican scientist cautioned that UFO reports may increase,
since humanity is launching an increasing number of satellites
that will burn up as they are attracted by Earth's
gravity.Navarro regretted that these speculative news items
should exert such a hold on the public's imagination as opposed
to serious efforts conducted in Mexico and elsewhere in the
world to detect the presence of extraterrestrial life.

-----

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Christian Quintero - PlanetaUFO








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

             Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:52:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:10:28 -0400
Subject: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists



Source: La Jornada
Date: May 13, 2004

Ball Lightining, Not Saucers, Say Scientists

SEDENA hindered the access of experts to the material furnished
to Televisa

The alleged UFOs videotaped from the Mexican Air Force's Merlin
C aircraft could be something of greater inmportance to science
than the "mystical" presence of ETs. All appears to indicate
that the cameras aboard the Mexican aircraft picked up one of
the strangest and therefore most fascinating atmospheric
phenomena: ball lightning.

Known since antiquity by sailors and scholars as "the lights
that dance in the sky" and consdiered by popular belief to be
proof positive of the existence of "witches", ball lightning has
not been very well studied and there is little information about
them. It was for that reason that scientists of the Universidad
Nacional Autonoma de Mexico (UNAM) marvelled at the images shown
on television.

They immediately contacted the Secretariat of Defense (SEDENA)
to request information on radar frequency, the height and
velocity of the military aircraft and data regarding the speed
at which the luminous spheres were moving. They only received
one reply: "the information you have requested is classified."

It wasn't classified for Televisa journalist Jaime Mauss=E1n, to
whom the video was given by Clemente Vega Garcia, the head of
the government ministry. The general explained in a radio
interview with Carlos Loret de Mola that he did not see the
usefulness of that material being kept in concealment, adn
therefore made the decision to give it to people who had been
working all of their lives with this and put it to good use.
"That why I gave it to Maussan."

The scientific community is upset, Loret insisted. Vega Garcia
replied: "We didn't know who they were (the scientists). We do
not know them," adding: "I hae no problem if they (the
scientists) wish to see this material. It's available if they
want to analyze it."

Of course they wish to analyze it, as professors Rafael Navarra
Gonzales--the only Mexican specialists participating in NASA's
Mars exploration project--and Julio Herrera Velazquez, a
reseacher of the Nuclear Science Institute of UNAM, told La
Jornada enthusiastically.

Their interest lies in that "never before had ball lightning
been seen under such conditions." They said that the phenomenon
has received little study by scientists  and described them as
"electrical, self-contained discharges within an ionized gas
known as plasma, which may circulate constantly and comes about
when the atmosphere is electrified. That's how spheres in which
the energy circulates are created."

There is very little documentation and scientific proof on ball
lightning, they insisted, and unlokcing the phenomenon would
represent a fundamental  leap in the construction of nuclear
power generators, among other applications.

The importance of the images obtained in the skies over Campeche
on March 5, 2004 -- to experts in lightning chemistry, plasma
physics and nuclear fusion -- in that ball lightning events
recorded to date have occurred at low altituded and for very
brief periods: microseconds. In this case, they lasted longer
than usual, perhaps due to the fact that they did not collide
with any obstacle that dissipated their energy. They stated that
their research will enrich scientific knowledge in an invaluable
measure.

News agencies have circulated all over the world the information
of this alleged intrusion of 11 UFOs into Mexican airspace,
which has been cause for jeers, in many cases. In this regard,
Navarro and Herrera maintained that no serious scientist
dismisses the possibility of intelligent life somewhere in the
universe, but the Campeche events do not suggest this. In any
event, it dozens of very consistent studies would be necessary
to sustain such a belief. [...]


Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Chrisitan Quintero - PlanetaUFO.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:58:09 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:16:01 -0400
Subject: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military


Brazilian Ufology supports Mexican military's attitude towards
the episode of March 2004Brazilian Ufology supports Mexican
military's attitude towards the episode of March 2004

The members of the Brazilian UFO Researchers' Community, civil
investigators of all lines and from the most various research
groups, presently united for the campaign UFOs: FREEDOM OF
INFORMATION NOW, wish to compliment the Mexican authorities for
the application of correct procedures and the accuracy of their
attitudes towards the March 2004 episode involving the mass
appearance of unidentified flying objects, thoroughly announced
by the world press.

The Brazilian UFO Researchers' Community praises the wise and
democratic decision made in an unprecedented way in that country
to bring to public knowledge both in Mexico and elsewhere, and
in television network and mobilizing the whole media, the
aforementioned event, which involved the participation of a
military team for special actions. Seldom before in the history
of mankind have we seen governmental authorities acknowledge so
openly the enormous significance of such an important event and
agree that the same event should not be kept hidden from
society.

Transparency, appropriateness and professionalism in Mexican
approach to the UFO phenomenon

We also wish to sincerely congratulate Mexico's Defense
Department, most particularly Secretary of Defense, General
Clemente Vega Garcia, who had the initiative to invite civil UFO
researchers and the press in his country to share with them the
information on the spectacular UFO commotion in the skies over
Mexico. It is precisely this sort of attitude that one should
expect from vanguard leaders who are aware of their
responsibility to care for the national security of their
respective countries.  This episode demonstrates how
transparent, appropriate and professional the Mexican
authorities, scientists and militaries are when dealing with the
UFO phenomenon.

We expect this to be an example for the Brazilian authorities,
so they can be made to listen to the recently introduced
movement through the aforementioned campaign, UFOs: FREEDOM OF
INFORMATION NOW by the Brazilian UFO investigators and that just
now when Mexico is showing to be serious and open on the
subject, demands a similar stand form our authorities. The
Brazilian initiative will gain new strength thanks to the
incident in Mexico and may receive wider attention both from the
population and the government.

A national movement that requests the Federal Government to open
up and expose its UFO files

UFOs:FREEDOM OF INFORMATION NOW  is a campaign for a just cause
 that has long been the ultimate wish of all members of the
Brazilian UFO Researchers' Community. It is founded on the
Brazilian Ufology's Manifesto, whose aim is to organize and
unify the isolated claims from many UFO investigators and
research groups being made since decades ago, so far without a
central coordination. The campaign's aim is to show our
authorities that the UFO phenomenon is a subject that concerns
the whole population, such as is occurring in Mexico right now.
Through the campaign, the researchers intend to gather
subscriptions from thousands of researchers, students, authors,
lecturers, enthusiasts and active people interested in Ufology,
all asking in one voice that the Government stop its present
hush-policy on UFOs.

All Brazilian society may get to know the truth about flying
saucers thanks to the Freedom of Information movement

It is time to acknowledge what is known about the frequent
sightings of unidentified flying objects in our skies and the
several reports of their manifestation in our Brazilian
territory. The Brazilian civil UFO researchers want Ufology to
be officially accepted and acknowledged, following the examples
of France, Spain, Belgium, China, Uruguay and Chile, and most
recently Mexico. Now, with this movement, we also offer our
government our contribution to the analysis and investigations
of the UFO phenomenon, its implications and consequences.
Additionally, we volunteer to effectively cooperate in
disclosing the information to all Brazilian society.

Once again, the Brazilian UFO Researchers' Community expresses
its compliments and feelings of sincere respect and admiration
for the Mexican attitude, and offer to help the militaries,
scientists and other authorities in that country with technical
support in whatever they may find necessary.

Signed:

Brazilian Commission for Ufology (CBU)
Brazilian UFO Researchers' Community

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Important information at:

http://www.ufo.com.br/secrecy.php
http://www.ufo.com.br/documentop.php
www.ufo.com.br

A. J. Gevaerd, editor Brazilian UFO Magazine
Alberto Francisco do Carmo, professor ans historian
Rogerio Chola, investigator of non conventional aerial phenomena (IPECOM)
Marcos Malvezzi Leal, translation coordinator for the UFO Magazine








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                  Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:21:22 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:51:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Hall


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:47:28 EDT
>Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:32:06 -0500
>>Subject: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs

>>Earlier in the day I contacted our local FOX news station -
>>Channel 4 - Dallas - to see if they had heard of the recent
>>Mexican Air Force UFO sighting.

>>I had to leave for work before I received a response but when I
>>got home I watched a replay of the news to see that they had put
>>a 20 second report on the sighting. This isn't particularly
>>spectacular but what I noticed was that the demeanor of the
>>newscasters was quite calm but serious with the last comment
>>being "It makes you think".

>>Those 20 seconds seemed much more meaningful to me than any of
>>those lame docu-dramas that play on the Sci-Fi channel.

>>Can we create a new term? "Sci-Real"

>You've noticed that too Terry!

>Yes indeedy! This is the first UFO story I've ever heard of that
>is making the news people stand back and take notice and none of
>the normal sarcastic bastard attitudes!

>I'm astounded! Literally astounded!

>Again it was a top story here in Los Angeles on the KFI station!
>Bill Handel the talk show host and reknowned for his sarcastic
>and biting commentary started out his newscast with this story
>and as is his form started out sarcastically until he got to the
>part about the images being caught by infra-red. Suddenly there
>was this ominous silence and immediate change of venue!

>Knocked me out of bed! First time I've ever heard Bill Handel
>shut up! He actually shut up and read the rest of the story as
>straight faced as he could be!

>Man, this is a field day for UFOlogy and it ain't over yet!


Greg and List,

Before we get too ecstatic about this, I recommend first having
some hard-nosed photoanalysis by people like Bruce Maccabee.

Frankly, the images look awfully fishy to me: the motion and
"formation" is too rigid, the images too perfectly round,
looking for all the world like some kind of reflections (or the
infrared moral equivalent).

We are all hungry for some solid, hardcore data but we must not
"believe" simply because we would like to have it. If we are
taken in by some false data we will end up with egg on our face.
Science first.


 - Dick










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                      Re: Mexico UFO On CNN - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:17:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:54:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO On CNN - Lehmberg


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:14:31 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO On CNN

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:35:27 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO On CNN

<snip>

>>Don't congratulate them! Condemn them! They give too little too
>>late! Deny them their forecast backstepping later, snatch the
>>ground they give. Demand more! They're OUR eyes and ears! I
>>don't want mine lying to me even if that is the wish of
>>suspicious 'others' (who remain unconvincing that they have ever
>>had _my_ best interest at heart about anything!)!

>I think Pogo said it best... "I have seen the enemy, and it
>am us!"

I think you're being your _own_ enemy here, sir.

>The media is a reflection of the general population, and not
>some nefarious "One World" entity or the Government.

There's a competent host of serious persons, Mr. Kaeser, who
would disagree with you in principle, in spirit and in fact. The
'jury' in question remains decidedly _out_ on the issue of
nefarious human entities grinding unadmitted axes in our
governments, agencies and institutions. Any other thought is
just wishful thinking and naive, sir. This is forgetting, of
course, that the subject under discussion, here, is a mainstream
media we _all_ agree has been decidedly deficient (to be
_kind_!) in the area concerned! Moreover, your terse and
irritated comment belies the rational conjecture regarding
_significant_ evidence that the general population you imbue
with so much personal control is, in fact, manipulated by what
the media's corporate masters have determined for it _instead_
of the media reflecting _anything_ an abused, distracted, and
betrayed populace would impose upon it!

>If one
>wants to promote that lunacy, you should post evidence to that
>effect.

If one were proposing that kind of 'lunacy' perhaps one
_should_, Mr. Kaeser, but I suspect you have hijacked whatever
it was you think I've said in this thread and run off the field
with it to pursue an agenda all your own. The media has a long
history, sir, of abdicating its responsibility with regard to
reporting the ufological news, and I find it disheartening in
the extremis that you could find any rational, at all, to
support it now as an institution that is _remotely_ doing its
job.

>Platitudes aren't evidence and I'm not sure that Errol
>ever intended this forum to become a political discussion group.

It's clear your problem is with me personally, Mr. Kaeser, and
not this fiction you've pounded out of straw that a political
discussion is being proffered. The media, _my_ eyes and ears on
the world, proves to have been a fantasy-land of stealthy
prevarication, airy dismissal, and axegrinding distortion
regarding UFOs. They should be called to account for it! That's
the subject at hand. It remains possible, sir, that it would
prevaricate (be _made_ to prevaricate!) with regard to anything
else, including our, very lucrative, politics. Besides, Mr.
Kaeser, bald rationality can see where a ufological thread
begins to weave itself, very quickly, into a political one as
the ufological begins to be seriously considered, or Steve
Bassett is _way_ off the beam. I think he's "on course and on
glide slope."

Finally, given a stark reality of _exopolitics_, sir, I'm not
going to pretend to know or dictate what Errol has intended for
this forum. That he has tolerated each of us, at all, should
give you pause.

No apologies here. Your 'world' doesn't exist or work the way
you think it does, sir. "There's heroes in the seaweed and
garbage in the flowers." You might begin to appreciate that
before you imply, in print, that _I'm_ the lunatic. Besides, I'd
rather _be_ crazy than complacent.

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:23:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:58:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:37:35 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:13:04 -0400
>>Subject: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"

>>INEXPLICATA
>>The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
>>May 13, 2004

>>Source: El Universal
>>Date: May 13, 2004

>>Skeptics Say UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons

>>The "Sociedad Astronomica Urania" of the state of Morelos
>>explains the possible origin of the UFOs seen over Campeche.

>>The Sociedad Astronomica Urania of the state of Morelos said
>>that the video presented by the Mexican Air Force could have a
>>scientific explanation if we consider that given the shape and
>>displacement of the 14 objects filmed, these appear to be a
>>group of weather balloons, such as the thousands launched daily
>>from universities, research centers or airports.

><snip>

>Oh! Of course. That has to be it. Eleven University weather
>balloons decided to have a 'meet-and-greet' over Campeche. I
>suppose the owners of these 'balloons" have come forward to
>explain how they trained them to fly in formation, change
>direction and then surround an Air Force plane.

Right, Terry. And let's not forget that the infrared video shows
that formation of renegade 'balloons' passing at startling speed
past and behind (and emerging on the other wide of) distant
clouds. Amazing, anomalous pelican atmospherics it is when
formations of balloons streak past likewise air-propelled clouds
at what seems orders-of-magnitude greater-that-the-clouds
speeds, and perhaps in a quite differential direction of motion
than those clouds, while evidently at roughly the same altitude
(judging from what we see on the video).

Now, someone wanted to have a link to the Mexican infrared video
clips. I suggest this:

The best coverage I've seen is at:

http://www.esmas.com/noticierostelevisa/mexico/

First Click on "En Video" with the double UFO image.

Next window, click on either of the two DIFFERENT options:

OVNIS en Campeche

and also be sure to click on:

11 Objectos no Identificados

The server may say it's too busy because they are having a huge
number of hits, but clicking on it again very soon will usually
get the video you want.

Now, if you haven't done so already, watch those infrared-
visible objects speed behind (are eclipsed by) clouds and back
out into sight again, then eclipsed by cloud tops again, etc.,
and are certainly not balloons as the frightened 'pelicans' in
the astronomy club alleged! When eleven balloons gang up on a
high-speed aircraft, circle, and pace it, we'd all better 'head
for the hills'!

Pelicans, whatever those UFOs might be, eat crow with your
balloon B.S.!


Ray Stanford








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 A Second UFO video - This Time From Romania

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:15:13 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:08:38 -0400
Subject: A Second UFO video - This Time From Romania


In the midst of all the furor over the Mexican UFO video, a
second UFO video has come to my attention. It was taken on May
12 near Rimnico Valcea in Romania and has been getting play on
Romania TV.

A link to this video is at:

www.rufon.org

It's not of the same calibre as the Mexican case, but is
interesting in terms of comparison.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

               Re: Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:15:21 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:13:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:38:36 -0500
>Subject: Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely Alien Craft"

>Source: Idaho News

>http://www2.kbcitv.com/x5154.xml?>ParentPageID=x5157&ContentID=x53419&Layout=KB
CI.xsl&AdGroupID=x5154

>05-13-04


>Idaho UFO Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely Alien Craft."

>By Scott Logan

>BOISE - An Idaho-based UFO researcher says spectacular videotape
>of purported flying saucers taken by the Mexican Air Force is
>the real deal.

>"It appears from all indications these could be mother ships,"
>said Ike Bishop, Idaho state director for the Mutual UFO
>Network. "They are definitely alien craft."

<snip>

Wait a minute. How do we make conclusive statements to something
with no physical evidence?

"They are definitely alien craft." the story quotes Mr. Bishop
as saying.

Perhaps there's another definition of alien I'm overlooking.

Just being cautious. Not wanting to jump the gun.

All we really know is that there is a video and technical data
that proves several objects visible only via optical
enhancements like infra red and radar performed actions
indicating intelligence of a higher order than known life forms
and technologies.

Let's remember to keep cool heads and do the science and
detective work.


Best,

Greg







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

               Re: Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:24:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:15:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:38:36 -0500
>Subject: Idaho Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely Alien Craft"

>Source: Idaho News

>http://www2.kbcitv.com/x5154.xml?ParentPageID=x5157&ContentID=x53419&Layout=KBC
I.xsl&AdGroupID=x5154

>05-13-04

>Idaho UFO Researcher: Mexican UFOs "Definitely Alien Craft."

>By Scott Logan

>BOISE - An Idaho-based UFO researcher says spectacular videotape
>of purported flying saucers taken by the Mexican Air Force is
>the real deal.

>"It appears from all indications these could be mother ships,"
>said Ike Bishop, Idaho state director for the Mutual UFO
>Network. "They are definitely alien craft."

Hoo boy. Well, I guess that's settled then. Ike, when you say
stuff like this, you're as bad, maybe even worse, than a
debunker. At least with a debunker you sometimes end up with
less bunk, which is a good thing.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:24:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:18:25 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:13:13 -0700
>Subject: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>Source: Newsmax.com

>http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/13/91044.shtml

>05-14-04

>UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>Charles R. Smith

>Thursday, May 13, 2004 The Mexican Air Force released a recent
>video of unidentified flying objects. A Mexican Air Force
>surveillance aircraft searching for drug runners spotted the
>UFOs, which were invisible to the naked eye. The UFOs were only
>visible on a special infrared camera.

>Journalist and long time UFO supporter Jamie Maussan announced
>that the objects were real and "intelligent." The UFOs
>reportedly changed direction and surrounded the plane chasing
>them.

>The Mexican Defense ministry confirmed to Reuters it had
>provided the video to Maussan. The video was taken by the Air
>Force on March 5 over the eastern coastal state of Campeche.

>"They were invisible to the eye but they were there, there is no
>doubt about it. They had mass, they had energy and they were
>moving about," stated Maussan.

>Buck Rogers

>While X-files and UFO extra-terrestrial believers say the video
>is clear proof of some form of spacecraft visiting Earth, the
>sighting can be attributed to the Bush defense budget and not
>little green men. The unidentified aircraft that shadowed the
>Mexican surveillance plane are reportedly part of a squadron of
>new stealth strike craft operating from the U.S.

<snip>

Moments ago, I sent Charles R. Smith the following message:

-----

Charles R.Smith, you declared:

"The unidentified aircraft that shadowed the Mexican
surveillance plane are reportedly part of a squadron of new
stealth strike craft operating from the U.S."

Reported by whom? I'd bet you have no authoritative source
whatsoever for that statement, other than your fanciful
thinking. Come on. Give me just one reliable reference that
could back up your allegation.

Also, give me one good reason why Uncle Sam (financially
strapped as the budget happens to be) would risk sending six,
nine, eleven, or more such expensive stealth aircraft down to
the Campeche area to test effectiveness. I hope you realize how
expensive even one such stealth device (even the small unmanned
type)costs. Furthermore, that's a LONG WAY FROM HOME (Nellis,
White Sands, or wherever) for such craft to travel and return,
undetected, unless they were launched off an ship in the Gulf of
Campeche, and that's hardly where our military is concentrating
its effort these days.

Finally, you must not have carefully watched the speed and
maneuvers of some of the infrared-visible sources. Considering
the clouds behind which some of them pass, I suspect we may be
seeing supersonic speed. Even subsonic, do you have one iota of
evidence that any U.S. secret stealth aircraft can maneuver as
adeptly as the Mexico things seem to do?

Put evidence where your mouth is, or refrain from trying to B.S.
the public!

-----

Ray Stanford







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

             Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:25:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:32:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:17:32 -0700
>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:49:41 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:29:36 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

><snip>

>>>.. Better yet, I'm hoping to get these witnesses 'on-List' so
>>>that they can make their own report in their own words. Again, I
>>>await a response from Jaime Maussan in order to get the ball
>>>rolling on all of this.

>>Hope you can. We need the best information as soon as possible
>>so this doesn't go the way of late lamented New Zealand
>>sightings which began with worldwide interest that was
>>immediately dampened by stupid explanation by people who figured
>>that they didn't really have to have all the information before
>>they advanced an "explanation" (such as the guy in Canada)

>Hello Bruce, John all:

Hola Larry, All,

You wrote:

>With all the various reports / emails going around, I'm
>starting to get confused. I have a request out for the precise
>location (clarification of coordinates) already, but other
>things aren't clear to me yet:

There will be _two_ opportunities upcoming within the next few
days for everyone to get more information and to ask questions.

EBK and I are in the final stages of locking down a lengthy
interview with Jaime Maussan and a scientist (Rodolfo Garrido)
that has analyzed the offering from the Mexican military.

Pending 'official' on-List confirmation from EBK, the interview
is tentatively scheduled to begin at 9:30 pm EST on Strange
Days...Indeed - this Saturday night. (May 15th) We hope that all
the members of the UFO UpDates e-mail List will be sitting
ringside with their 'ears' on.

SDI begins at 9:00 pm EST and runs until mid-night. You can
'listen live' over the Web by going to:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2004.html

Scroll down the page until you encounter a link/banner for radio
station CFRB. Mac users can listen in using Windows Media Player
for Mac.

On Sunday night, Jaime will be discussing this case on his own
Internet TV program, 'Los Grandes Misterios del Tercer Milenio',
(Great Mysteries of the Third Millennium) a two hour live
broadcast that is highly recommended for all to see.

http://www.jaimemaussan.tv/

The more info we can gather the better. This week-end will provide
ample opportunity for all of us to familiarize ourselves with the
details of this case which is currently unfolding before our eyes.

>1) Is it true that the pilots/crew of the MX surveillance plane
>had no visual sighting whatsoever, not even lights?

>2) IF so, may I assume that they were tracking the objects
>on radar only? -or-

>3) Were they also tracking the objects on their infra-red gear
>in real-time as well as recording the IR images?

>Clearly they had to 'see' the objects somehow, due to the
>descriptions of how they retreated, and returned in greater
>numbers.

>- and for the Mexican sources:

>4) How long have these drug interception flights been going on?
>I mean with these specific particular types of aircraft and
>surveillance equipment (IR etc.)

>5) Is the particular model infra-red camera something very
>recent, or has it been in use for months or years?

>6) Are similar aircraft, IR gear etc. being used along the
>coastlines and northern border in addition to the Southern
>states (Campeche etc.)?

>Sorry for all the questions. I have listed the case, along with
>a somewhat similar one from Omaha, Nebraska in the same month.
>(source: Peter Davenport). As aircraft encounters, they are
>especially interesting.

Larry, I will try to include/ask as many of your questions as
time and opportunity will allow. See if you can consolidate or
pare down the list of questions a bit and send it to me
privately. I'll do my best to get them answered on-air. And
remember, SDI is a 'call-in' radio program! When Errol asks for
listeners to call in with their own questions, the phone lines
should light up. Call:

1-416-872-1010

Hope to hear from you on Saturday night!


John Velez







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

               Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:56:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:36:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information -


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:21:18 -0300
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information

>>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:22:06 -0500
>>Subject: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information

>>It's important to note that the Mexican Secretary of Defense
>>conducted a complete investigation with their own team shortly
>>after the March 5, 2004 incident and also with the help of
>>scientists and experts selected as goverment advisors. The
>>investigation was conducted confidentially and followed every
>>proccedure required.

>>As the results were inconclusive, in the sense of identifing the
>>nature of the traffic detected by the C26A equipment, the case
>>was declared "Unexplained". It was not until April 20, 2004 when
>>General Clemente Vega, Secretary of Defense decided, with his
>>staff, to contact Jaime Maussan as an advisor to aid in the
>>investigation to conduct an independent study and analisis of
>>the C26A data.

><snip>

>The Brazilian UFO community is watching this case with lots of
>enthusiasm, as we are in the very middle of a massive campaign
>to request Brazilian Government to open its files about UFOs.

>http://www.ufo.com.br/secrecy.php

>General Vega is a military typw in short supply these days. He
>was wise enough to understand the significance of the
>information he had, and have it released to the world. Jaime is
>certainly a lucky UFO researcher to have such an opportunity.

>Please, Santiago, keep us informed.


Hello A.J., All,

The petition to the member nations of the UN for disclosure of
UFO related information has been collecting signatures for two-
 and-a-half years. The goals of the petition and this latest
effort on the part of the people of Brazil to get their
government to open up the UFO files is one and the same.

In the spirit of brotherhood and a common goal I would like to
add the 4712 signatures of individuals from every country in the
world who have asked to have their voices heard in the call for
international disclosure of UFO information to the ones you have
gathered in Brazil. I hope and pray that the addition of these
almost 5000 signatures helps to insure the success of your
campaign in Brazil.

We stand united as One in our struggle to learn the truth.

Send me an address and I will send you a CD with the 4712
'electronic' signatures we have gathered.


Warmest regards,

John Velez

Coordinator
UN Petition for International UFO Info Disclosure








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:31:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:39:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Groff


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 02:38:11 -0500
>Subject: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>In Mexico City a group of scientists from the UNAM, the top
>Mexican University gave a press conference trying to explain the
>mysterious lights recorded by the Mexican Air Force C26A  during
>the incident of March 5, 2004.

>In an improvised speech the group's leader Rafael Navarro from
>the Institute of Nuclear Science of the UNAM announced that the
>unknown lights were just luminous sparks of plasma energy, a
>natural phenomena and showed a video of a recreation they made
>in a laboratory of this effect trying to make a comparison with
>the C26A footage.

If they were "luminous sparks of plasma" why couldn't they be
seen with the naked eye?

>With this statement Rafael Navarro disqualified  FLIR Systems,
>Inc. (Nasdaq:FLIR) the multimillion defense industry of
>Portland, Oregon and their winner product the Star Safire II
>implying they are not reliable.

If you can't attack the data, attack everything else.

>For all our friends that want to know everything about this
>great case I invite you this next Sunday May 16, 2004 to our two
>hours LIVE tv show Los Grande Misterios del Tercer Milenio
>broadcast simultaneously on the Internet from 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM
>Mexico Time where host Jaime Maussan will present for the first
>time the complete investigation on the mexican Air Force March
>5, 2004 ufo incident presenting the complete footage, interviews
>with the crew, studies and analisis performed and a full review
>of the story.

>The link is:

>http://www.jaimemaussan.tv/

Dang, I'll be working. Is there anyone here who can archive the
show?


Terry Groff

Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas
from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and
refracted the light from Venus" - Agent "K"








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:10:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:44:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:37:35 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:13:04 -0400
>>Subject: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"

>>INEXPLICATA
>>The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
>>May 13, 2004>

>>Source: El Universal
>>Date: May 13, 2004

>>Skeptics Say UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons

>>The "Sociedad Astronomica Urania" of the state of Morelos
>>explains the possible origin of the UFOs seen over Campeche.

>>The Sociedad Astronomica Urania of the state of Morelos said
>>that the video presented by the Mexican Air Force could have a
>>scientific explanation if we consider that given the shape and
>>displacement of the 14 objects filmed, these appear to be a
>>group of weather balloons, such as the thousands launched daily
>>from universities, research centers or airports.

<snip>

>Oh! Of course. That has to be it. Eleven University weather
>balloons decided to have a 'meet-and-greet' over Campeche. I
>suppose the owners of these 'balloons" have come forward to
>explain how they trained them to fly in formation, change
>direction and then surround an Air Force plane.

From the changes in latitude and longitude over a several minute
period I estimate that the plane at least at one time traveled in
a straight line, during which the azimuth to the objects/lights
remained essentially constant.

The plane was traveling at more than 200 mph.

A bit fast for balloons, don't you think?

Actually, I'm rooting for the high speed pelicans. Just think of
how hot they woudl get from flapping their wings fast enough to
travel along with the airplane.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Elnadi

From: Mo Elnadi <mnadi.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:20:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:47:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Elnadi


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 12:44:57 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt?

>I am looking for a UFO researcher living in Egypt who can
>provide press, scientific or official information on a curious
>UFO event that occurred in Egypt on October 5, 1954, which has
>been poorly documented to date.


Dear Listers,

Vicente's request has reminded me of a very interesting UFO
sighting that happened in Janurary 2000 in Cairo, Egypt over the
Giza pyramids. To my knowledge there was no investigation or
research done on the incident, or even examination done to one
of the witnesses who started having strange powers after his
several sighting!

I am including here my English translation; as the original
article is documented in Arabic through this article by one of
the witnesses who is also a famous Egyptian writer Mr. Mohamed
Salmawy and was printed and published online and in Al-Ahram
Newspaper (official newspaper in Egypt) on 31st January, 2000

http://www.ahram.org.eg/archive/Index.asp?CurFN=WRIT1.HTM&DID=65
56

The article goes like this:

"[Salmawy writes] I was contacted by Omar to let me know in a
calm and precise wayy that last Tuesday he saw UFOs over Cairo
that emmited a very bright white light that doesn't resemble any
electrical light that we know of. --Omar is a good friend of my
kids since they were together in school, 4 years back, he
graduated from the American University in Cairo, he is now
working hard in a media and TV company in Cairo, Egypt-- the
objects were similar to Neon lights that were floating in the
sky, or similar to a huge Frankfurter shape with rounded edges.
Omar said that this was not the first time to see those flying
objects. He continues that 8 years back he was sleeping on his
bed in one summer night and saw a huge light ball outside his
balcony with a trail of non-contineous lights. It lasted for few
seconds, turned the place into bright daylight then vanished...

...I asked him wither someone else saw what he saw last week and
he instantly said that his mom and driver also was there and saw
that. They were all in the car on the "Mouneib Bridge" going
from Cairo to Giza and saw those bright objects above the Giza
Pyramids, so they stopped the car and went down to watch better,
and kept watching till they dissapeared. At that point I myself
discovered that I also saw those same lights later during the
same night and in the same pattern Omar has discribed!!...

[the writer goes into details about perseption theories and how
other countries are studying UFOs phenomena since the 40s]

[the writer switches to his story] "I too saw the same phenomena
later during the same night, 01/25/2000, i was coming back on
the Alitalia flight from Algeria via Italy to Cairo airport. we
were still far above Cairo with its glittering lights. I
suddenly saw this bright light very visible among the relivantly
dimmer city lights. Then it dissapeared. It was similar to a big
light bulb. I first thought it was coming from the plane's
strobing lights but when it happened again i could tell that it
was un-naturaly bright. And was moving with the plane and not
stationary as i first thought. It was visibile that it is a
rectangular shape flying just above the ground illuminating the
ground as it hovered above land with its very special bright
pure white (not yellowish as the rest of Cairo's other
artificial lights). It happened 4 or 5 times between 11:30 and
11:45 then we landed in Cairo Airport and i forgot all about it
till I heared Omar's story."

[the writer also discribes another incident] where another male
was ubducted into a UFO while he was sleeping in an empty lot in
southern Egypt. when he saw a landing UFO and creatures came out
and took him inside on an operation table where he was exposed
to some rays, later after this insident he started having
strange powers like eating and swallowing broken glass and
inserting a nail in parts of his body and taking it out from the
other side without any trace of blood. And he demonstrated those
powers in my office infront of my own eyes.

Omar also started feeling those strange powers, for example
sometimes if he just rests his hand on one of his friends that
person could fall down to the ground with extreme pain! Lately
he started noticing that when he holds a cola glass bottle in
his hand, the liquid will turn into frozen ice in the middle of
the bottle, while stays as liquid above and bellow the area
where Omar was holding it.

Omar also continues that when he saw the fire ball years back,
his brother was sleeping in the next bed and didn't see the
ball, but when the fire ball crossed infront of the bedroom
window the sleeping brother punched the air upwards with his
fist while still sleeping. And in after the light dissapeared in
few seconds his arm went back to his side whithout waking up.
Omar remembers that during this incident there was a ringing or
beeping sound coming from the tin trash bin in the same bedroom.
The sound was similar to the effect resulting of hitting the tin
with another metal piece."








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

             Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:20:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:50:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:17:32 -0700
>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:49:41 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Translation Of Page On March '04 Mexico UFOs

>1) Is it true that the pilots/crew of the MX surveillance plane
>had no visual sighting whatsoever, not even lights?

The report is there were no visual sightings. (Objects might
have been to small to see at a distance of 2 miles or more, or
were of the same general "color" as the background so there was
no visual contrast with the sky)

>2) IF so, may I assume that they were tracking the objects
>on radar only? -or-

Initial contact on radar. as I understand it, as they approached
from the initial 37(?) miles contact distance they were
surprised that they couldn't see anything so they turned on the
FLIR system. If they were following an airplane, the flir would
have picked up the exhaust port heat,so it makes some sense to
turn on the flir, even though it is used ,I believe, mostly at
night (can see the hot engines).  Reportedly only 3 objects
showed on radar. Don't know exactly what this means. Anyone have
radar data?

>3) Were they also tracking the objects on their infra-red gear
>in real-time as well as recording the IR images?

They were pointing the IR imager toward the objects. In this
sense "tracking" in real time and recording.

>Clearly they had to 'see' the objects somehow, due to the
>descriptions of how they retreated, and returned in greater
>numbers.

The "seeing" was bymeans of the IR imager.

>- and for the Mexican sources:

>4) How long have these drug interception flights been going on?
>I mean with these specific particular types of aircraft and
>surveillance equipment (IR etc.)

>5) Is the particular model infra-red camera something very
>recent, or has it been in use for months or years?

The Star Sapphire system is not the state of the art, but is a
very good analogue system which costs a mere $400,000. So
everyone should have one! Don't know how long the Mexican AF has
had this particular model. May be able to find out.


>6) Are similar aircraft, IR gear etc. being used along the
>coastlines and northern border in addition to the Southern
>states (Campeche etc.)?

>Sorry for all the questions. I have listed the case, along with
>a somewhat similar one from Omaha, Nebraska in the same month.
>(source: Peter Davenport). As aircraft encounters, they are
>especially interesting.

Don't know the corrdinates at the beginning of the flight./
About the middle (?) of the flight the corrdinates were 18 deg
28.16 min lat, 90 deg 35.84 longitude








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                  Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:38:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:53:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Maccabee


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: Ufo UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:23:23 -0700
>Subject: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>Pardon my ignorance, but is there any precedent for this case?
>Has there been an instance where UFOs have shown up on infrared
>AND radar before? Could this indicate a sea change in the
>phenomena? Or perhaps something we've been missing for lo these
>60 years?

I don't know of any previous case involving radar AND infrared.
Nor do I know of a case involving infrared with no visible. I do
know of a photographic case that strongly indicates a shift in
spectral power from predominantly visual red into predominantly
"near infrared" (just "beyond" visible red).








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military -

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:39:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:55:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military -


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:58:09 -0300
>Subject: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military

>Brazilian Ufology supports Mexican military's attitude towards
>the episode of March 2004Brazilian Ufology supports Mexican
>military's attitude towards the episode of March 2004

<snip>

Maybe I've missed something but where was the acknowledgement to
Jaime Maussan?

Everybody and their third cousin twice removed was acknowledged
except him?

Don't worry, Jaime Maussan is getting his just due from his fans
and the world press at large.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:41:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:58:10 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:24:47 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico


>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:13:13 -0700
>>Subject: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>>Source: Newsmax.com

>>http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/13/91044.shtml

>>05-14-04

>>UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>>Charles R. Smith

<snip>

>>While X-files and UFO extra-terrestrial believers say the video
>>is clear proof of some form of spacecraft visiting Earth, the
>>sighting can be attributed to the Bush defense budget and not
>>little green men. The unidentified aircraft that shadowed the
>>Mexican surveillance plane are reportedly part of a squadron of
>>new stealth strike craft operating from the U.S.

><snip>

>Moments ago, I sent Charles R. Smith the following message:

>Charles R.Smith, you declared:

>"The unidentified aircraft that shadowed the Mexican
>surveillance plane are reportedly part of a squadron of new
>stealth strike craft operating from the U.S."

>Reported by whom? I'd bet you have no authoritative source
>whatsoever for that statement, other than your fanciful
>thinking. Come on. Give me just one reliable reference that
>could back up your allegation.

>Also, give me one good reason why Uncle Sam (financially
>strapped as the budget happens to be) would risk sending six,
>nine, eleven, or more such expensive stealth aircraft down to
>the Campeche area to test effectiveness. I hope you realize how
>expensive even one such stealth device (even the small unmanned
>type)costs. Furthermore, that's a LONG WAY FROM HOME (Nellis,
>White Sands, or wherever) for such craft to travel and return,
>undetected, unless they were launched off an ship in the Gulf of
>Campeche, and that's hardly where our military is concentrating
>its effort these days.

>Finally, you must not have carefully watched the speed and
>maneuvers of some of the infrared-visible sources. Considering
>the clouds behind which some of them pass, I suspect we may be
>seeing supersonic speed. Even subsonic, do you have one iota of
>evidence that any U.S. secret stealth aircraft can maneuver as
>adeptly as the Mexico things seem to do?

>Put evidence where your mouth is, or refrain from trying to B.S.
>the public!


Ray,

Further on in the article, which is the most constructive
debunking effort I've read so far, he says this:


"Some doubt the UFO story being something as mundane as a new
classified jet.

Others doubt the value of stealth technology and wonder if the defense money
is well spent. I am certain of both"


Within the context of the article, that strikes me either that
he has been briefed, or that his ego is so large as to not bear
thinking about.

It could be the former.


Stuart Miller








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:26:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:04:17 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:13:13 -0700
>Subject: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>Source: Newsmax.com

>http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/13/91044.shtml

>05-14-04

>UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>Charles R. Smith

I'm glad we've narrowed down the list of suspects to the
Martians. They are so much easier to deal with than the
reptiloids from Draconis and the Greys from Zeta Reticuli.
 Martians? Hell, they're like kissin' cousins!








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                 Re: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:52:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:46:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:52:38 -0400
>Subject: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists


>Source: La Jornada
>Date: May 13, 2004

>Ball Lightining, Not Saucers, Say Scientists

>SEDENA hindered the access of experts to the material furnished
>to Televisa

>The alleged UFOs videotaped from the Mexican Air Force's Merlin
>C aircraft could be something of greater inmportance to science
t>han the "mystical" presence of ETs. All appears to indicate
>that the cameras aboard the Mexican aircraft picked up one of
>the strangest and therefore most fascinating atmospheric
>phenomena: ball lightning.

>Known since antiquity by sailors and scholars as "the lights
>that dance in the sky" and consdiered by popular belief to be
>proof positive of the existence of "witches", ball lightning has
>not been very well studied and there is little information about
>them. It was for that reason that scientists of the Universidad
>Nacional Autonoma de Mexico (UNAM) marvelled at the images shown
>on television.

>They immediately contacted the Secretariat of Defense (SEDENA)
>o request information on radar frequency, the height and
>velocity of the military aircraft and data regarding the speed
>at which the luminous spheres were moving. They only received
>one reply: "the information you have requested is classified."

Amusing. From the 4 video images on the Rense site I calculated
that the airplane was traveling over 200 mph. This is s "trifle
fast" for ball lightning. I'm still olding out for hot pelicans.

<snip>

>Their interest lies in that "never before had ball lightning
>been seen under such conditions." They said that the phenomenon
>has received little study by scientists and described them as
>"electrical, self-contained discharges within an ionized gas
>known as plasma, which may circulate constantly and comes about
>when the atmosphere is electrified. That's how spheres in which
>the energy circulates are created."

>There is very little documentation and scientific proof on ball
>lightning, they insisted, and unlokcing the phenomenon would
>represent a fundamental leap in the construction of nuclear
>power generators, among other applications.

>The importance of the images obtained in the skies over Campeche
>on March 5, 2004 -- to experts in lightning chemistry, plasma
>physics and nuclear fusion -- in that ball lightning events
>recorded to date have occurred at low altituded and for very
>brief periods: microseconds. In this case, they lasted longer
>than usual, perhaps due to the fact that they did not collide
>with any obstacle that dissipated their energy. They stated that
>their research will enrich scientific knowledge in an invaluable
>measure.

These "ball lightnings" lasted for minutes. Unprecedented
durations.

Incidently, if these were plasma objects, there were "cold
plasma" because they were warm enough to emit infrared radiation
but not hot enough to be visible sources of light. Infrared
radiation has a lower energy (per photon) than visible light.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:56:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:48:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Maccabee


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:21:22 +0000
>Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs

>Greg and List,

>Before we get too ecstatic about this, I recommend first having
>some hard-nosed photoanalysis by people like Bruce Maccabee.

I have contacted two of the engineers at the FLIR corporation to find
out exactly how the device works.   More information later.

>Frankly, the images look awfully fishy to me: the motion and
>"formation" is too rigid, the images too perfectly round,
>looking for all the world like some kind of reflections (or the
>infrared moral equivalent).

Really need a good copy video (coming) to determine whether or
not these could be "reflections" (of what?)







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:12:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:12:00 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:41:35 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:24:47 -0400
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

<snip>

>Further on in the article, which is the most constructive
>debunking effort I've read so far, he says this:

>"Some doubt the UFO story being something as mundane as a new
>classified jet.

>Others doubt the value of stealth technology and wonder if the
>defense money is well spent. I am certain of both"

>Within the context of the article, that strikes me either that
>he has been briefed, or that his ego is so large as to not bear
>thinking about.

>It could be the former.


Ray, Stuart-

I've also contacted Chris regarding his report, and he's not
interested in providing proof, per se. However, he appears to
have been involved in the military/defense genre for 10 to 15
years and I wouldn't simply dismiss his statements out of hand.

The question is whether or not "IR Lighting" is used for
refueling operations and since it's designed for use during
nightime refueling, I'm not sure why it was being used at 5:00p
(or so) in the afternoon.

Chris is not the issue, and while we may not like what he writes
I'm not sure it does us any good to lay down the gauntlet and
make demands. I tried to remain civil in my correspondence, but
I fear the next time he write about a UFO subject he'll remember
the messages that he receives today and treat the it
accordingly.

Personally I'd like to rule out his suggestion, if we can, but
that'll take some research.


Steve








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Re: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military -

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:23:29 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:15:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:39:52 EDT
>Subject: Re: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military


>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>,
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:58:09 -0300
>>Subject: Brazilian Ufology Supports Mexican Military

>>Brazilian Ufology supports Mexican military's attitude towards
>>the episode of March 2004Brazilian Ufology supports Mexican
>>military's attitude towards the episode of March 2004

><snip>

>Maybe I've missed something but where was the acknowledgement to
>Jaime Maussan?

>Everybody and their third cousin twice removed was acknowledged
>except him?

>Don't worry, Jaime Maussan is getting his just due from his fans
>and the world press at large.

Jaime Mauss=E1n is being acknowledged for his work, as well as
Santiago Yturria, in a later article to be pubished in the 100th
edition of the Brazilian UFO Magazine, next month. We surely
won=B4t forget him.


A. J.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

               Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information -

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:26:07 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:06:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information -


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:56:55 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information

>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:21:18 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Footage Background Information


>><snip>

>>The Brazilian UFO community is watching this case with lots of
>>enthusiasm, as we are in the very middle of a massive campaign
>>to request Brazilian Government to open its files about UFOs.

>>http://www.ufo.com.br/secrecy.php

<snip>

>The petition to the member nations of the UN for disclosure of
>UFO related information has been collecting signatures for two-
> and-a-half years. The goals of the petition and this latest
>effort on the part of the people of Brazil to get their
>government to open up the UFO files is one and the same.

>In the spirit of brotherhood and a common goal I would like to
>add the 4712 signatures of individuals from every country in the
>world who have asked to have their voices heard in the call for
>international disclosure of UFO information to the ones you have
>gathered in Brazil. I hope and pray that the addition of these
>almost 5000 signatures helps to insure the success of your
>campaign in Brazil.

>We stand united as One in our struggle to learn the truth.

>Send me an address and I will send you a CD with the 4712
>'electronic' signatures we have gathered.


John, I am glad that you brought that to mind !!!

I will discuss this with my people down here and there is a good chance that
we can unite in some way both efforts. After 4 weeks we have gathered about
2,5 thousand eletronic signatures to our petition to Brazilian government.

Can you send your signatures by e-mail and/or FTP ?

We will work on this new idea now.


A. J.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                   Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:27:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:08:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Boone


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:38:45 -0400
>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: Ufo UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:23:23 -0700
>>Subject: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>Pardon my ignorance, but is there any precedent for this case?
>>Has there been an instance where UFOs have shown up on infrared
>>AND radar before? Could this indicate a sea change in the
>>phenomena? Or perhaps something we've been missing for lo these
>>60 years?

>I don't know of any previous case involving radar AND infrared.
>Nor do I know of a case involving infrared with no visible. I do
>know of a photographic case that strongly indicates a shift in
>spectral power from predominantly visual red into predominantly
>"near infrared" (just "beyond" visible red).

I'm so happy that real scientists like Dr. Maccabee are around.
He hit the nail right on the head.

Radar AND infrared as well as no visible target.

Can't argue with two independent technologies confirming a
target and performance.

You can't call a radar dish nor infra red apparatus 'delusional'
or in a state of 'dementia'. Nope. They're just machines and
don't have the luxury of having their characters attacked.

Right on Dr. Maccabee, keep on keeping our heads on straight.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                  Mexican UFO Incident Is All Velez's Fault

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:35:40 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:11:13 -0400
Subject: Mexican UFO Incident Is All Velez's Fault


Mexican UFO Incident Is All John Velez's fault :)

I have a theory. I think I'd stated it a while back when our
admired and beloved colleague John Velez said he was retiring
from Ufology.

I think I or some of us mentioned that as soon as John put up
his holsters that a big UFO event would occur just because they
knew it would irk him enough to return.

So it's all John Velez's fault! :)

The 'aliens' did that display just to spite him.

If my theory is correct, Stanton Friedman should announce a
retirement and I'ld bet 5 minutes later the entire galactic
conglomerate of extraterrestrials would land on the White House
lawn.

Reminds me of an old Warner Bros. cartoon where Sylvester the
Cat went to 'Birds Anonymous' to kick his habit of chasing
birds. Soon as he finally swore off the feathered friends an
entire flock descended on him.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                       Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:09:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:17:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Clark


>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:31:52 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:34:02 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:48:52 EDT
>>>Subject: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>With all the dreadful news coming out of the War on Terrorism,
>>>the abuses, the vengeful murders, ol' President Bush is
>>>literally between Iraq and a hard place.

>>Sure. The aliens will land and Bush will discover that they
>>aren't a voting democracy and feel obligated to correct the
>>situation. I'm not sure I'd want Bush on our side.

>I would highly recommend that if we truly want the politicians to
>help us, we should not antagonize them with personal political
>opinions.

Absolutely. At this stage we ought to be well past the naive
notion that this a free country in which we can openly express
negative opinions of political leaders. We would all be well
advised just to shut up and let them do whatever they want to do
for - and, especially, to - us.


Jerry Clark








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

                  Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 19:21:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:19:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Hall


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:56:50 -0400
>Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:21:22 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs

>>Greg and List,

>>Before we get too ecstatic about this, I recommend first having
>>some hard-nosed photoanalysis by people like Bruce Maccabee.

>I have contacted two of the engineers at the FLIR corporation to find
>out exactly how the device works.   More information later.

>>Frankly, the images look awfully fishy to me: the motion and
>>"formation" is too rigid, the images too perfectly round,
>>looking for all the world like some kind of reflections (or the
>>infrared moral equivalent).

>Really need a good copy video (coming) to determine whether or
>not these could be "reflections" (of what?)

Bruce,

Of what? High-speed pelican plasma balloons, of course!

I had the feeling that I was looking at spots of water on a lens
or on a window. That, of course, would not explain the IR
readings per se (assuming they are genuine), but the critical
question there is whether there is a strong correspondence
between the radar and IR images. It also seemed to me that the
camera was tracking the "UFOs" all too perfectly (centered at
all times), but then I don't know how the system works. Maybe it
was "locked on."

I'm just counseling caution and thorough study before
opinionating (which we are already seeing far too much of). I
look forward to your analysis.


 - Dick









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 14

              Jamie Mausson On Strange Days... Indeed Tomorrow

From: Strange Days... Indeed <sdi.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:19:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:22:18 -0400
Subject: Jamie Mausson On Strange Days... Indeed Tomorrow


Jaime Mausson and Rodolfo Garrido - the scientist who has been
analysing the Mexican Airforce video of 11 UFOs will discuss the
case on 'Strange Days... Indeed' tomorrow night, Saturday, May
15th at 21:30 Eastern. Also participating, Enrique Kolbeck and
John Velez.

The broadcast can be heard on NewsTalk 1010 CFRB in Toronto
and on CJAD 800 in Montreal. Both stations feed the Web via
Windows Media Player, at:

http://www.cfrb.com

and

http://www.cjad.com

The program's listings are at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2004.html

The studio's e-mail address:

sdi.nul


Errol Bruce-Knapp
Host/Producer 'Strange Days... Indeed'
Saturday 21:00 Eastern
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

'Mind/Shift: Exploring The Un-Explained'
Sunday 22:00
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/mindshift/

News Talk Radio CFRB 1010 - Toronto
or listen via:
http://www.cfrb.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                 Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:47:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:45:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:23:18 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:37:35 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Mexican Skeptics "UFOs Could Be Weather Balloons"

<snip>

>>Oh! Of course. That has to be it. Eleven University weather
>>balloons decided to have a 'meet-and-greet' over Campeche. I
>>suppose the owners of these 'balloons" have come forward to
>>explain how they trained them to fly in formation, change
>>direction and then surround an Air Force plane.

>Right, Terry. And let's not forget that the infrared video shows
>that formation of renegade 'balloons' passing at startling speed
>past and behind (and emerging on the other wide of) distant
>clouds. Amazing, anomalous pelican atmospherics it is when
>formations of balloons streak past likewise air-propelled clouds
>at what seems orders-of-magnitude greater-that-the-clouds
>speeds, and perhaps in a quite differential direction of motion
>than those clouds, while evidently at roughly the same altitude
>(judging from what we see on the video).

>Now, someone wanted to have a link to the Mexican infrared video
>clips. I suggest this:

>The best coverage I've seen is at:

>http://www.esmas.com/noticierostelevisa/mexico/

>First Click on "En Video" with the double UFO image.

>Next window, click on either of the two DIFFERENT options:

>OVNIS en Campeche

>and also be sure to click on:

>11 Objectos no Identificados


Thanks for the link Ray,

I have a RealMedia version posted on the DFW MUFON site.

Go to:

http://mufondfw.com/ or http://terrygroff.com/dfwmufon/

Click "News"

There's link to stream the video


Terry Groff
Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas
from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and
refracted the light from Venus" - Agent "K"







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

               Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Hebert

From: Amy  Hebert <ahebert.nul>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:35:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:48:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Hebert


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:26:06 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal"

>>Source: CTV Canada

<snip>

>>"That is where the skepticism kicks in: No way to know how are
>>away these things are or in fact how fast they were moving."

<snip>

>He says there is "no way" to know how far away these things
>are." Well, about the radar report? According to the most
>recent news story (rense.com) at one time they were 2 miles
>away.

<snip>

>These objects/lights were picked up by an infrared sensitive
>system operating in the 3-5 micron range whereas the video
>imagery Semeniuk refers to is based on visible light. The
>comparison he makes here is superficial and ignores one of the
>key questions raised by this sighting: what can radiate
>substantial power (hundreds of watts?) in the 3-5 micron
>wavelength band while NOT radiating enough in the visible band
>(0.4 - 0.7 microns) for the crew of the plane to see anything?

>A heated body like a meteor (or the hot air plasma around it)
>that radiates power in the infrared will also radiate in the
>visible (which is why people can see it.) The main point is
>_nothing_ should be "out there" causing any images on the IR
>camera, to say nothing of very bright (saturated?) images of
>things that are also detected (some of them at least) on radar
>and also clearly travel with the airplane but were _not_ seen
>by the crew _despite_ optimum daylight conditions.

Hi, Bruce:

I'm curious, without visual confirmation can you accurately
determine the size of an object based only on its infrared
signature?

If these objects never came closer than two miles to the
observers, how big would a UFO have to be to be visible at that
distance? Of course the first thing a trained pilot and crew
would look for in flying aircraft pacing them would be another
plane or something of that size. If these objects were small,
they might not be visible even at two miles distance but still
show up on radar and IR.

http://www.aerovironment.com/area-aircraft/unmanned.html

See: "MicorAir Vehicles".

Is this possible?

And since three of the objects did show up on radar, if we lowly
humans know how to avoid radar detection, how come ET hasn't
figured this out yet?

Sounds like these objects *wanted* to be observed yet not
clearly photographed or visual confirmation. I wonder why.

This is for everyone:

I'm not one for looking a gift horse in the mouth but... doesn't
it strike anyone as odd that the Mexican Air Force made a
deliberate effort to seek out Jaime Maussan to tell him this
information and make the footage available to broadcast all over
the world?

Before we run around promoting this footage as proof of UFO's,
we need to examine this case and the surrounding sociopolitical
variables carefully and objectively.


Sincerely,

A. Hebert








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                          Mexico UFO Case Statement

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:02:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:53:47 -0400
Subject: Mexico UFO Case Statement


Dear Friends,

The case of the Mexican Air Force UFO incident has gone beyond
all expectations in our Ufology. We ufologists here in Mexico
see with excitement how positive has been the reactions of so
many friends researchers and collagues from around the world to
this breaking story and how we all have forgotten our diferences
to join this mutual interest and impulse our efforts to
continue our work promoting the UFO Phenomena study.

However the attempts to descredit and minimize the potential of
this case by the skeptics and debunkers are going to increase
these days so we have to be alert to repel these naive theories
and statements from those upseted persons that still can't
accept the fact that the Secretary of Defense in Mexico has come
forward opening this case to all the people giving the mexican
UFO phenomena investigation the official recognizion and
support and the ufologists the premise of this investigation.

The few attempts to debunk this story at this time have been so
far very weak and mediocre by the skeptics and quickly
disqualified by the ufologic community. Failed attempts like the
improvised conference by some scientists from mexican university
UNAM contradicting themselves and declaring ridicule things like
" light sparks in the high atmosphere " as Rafael Navarro dared
to state disqualifing Flir Systems, Inc. (Nasdaq:FLIR) the
multimillion defense industry of Portland, Oregon and it's
winner product the FLIR STAR SAFIRE II implying they are not
reliable. Flir Systems, Inc. is one of the world's most awarded
industry in designing high defense airborne imaging systems,
perimeter security systems and reconnaissance and surveillance
systems.

The recent discredit campaign against the case and the mexican
Secretary of Defense handled by common debunkers disguissed as
objective researchers like Scott Corrales and his obscure
Institute of Hispanic Ufology whom has a record of continued
debunking attacks on every major UFO case released in Mexico and
indiscriminated attacks on most of the important mexican
researchers. Corrales debunking campaign is clear publishing
every negative article on the news against the case, the
researcher Jaime Maussan and the Secretary of Defense General
Clemente Vega as part of his hidden agenda helped by his allies
like the Fundacion Cosmos group, a minor unknown mexican amateur
group of skeptic debunkers who only recollect newsclips from the
mexican newspapers and the Internet.

The mexican Air Force UFO incident is certainly a high level
case of trascendental proportions in our Ufology and one of the
world's most important breaking news in recent times. It's
useless the effort that debunkers like Rafael Navarro, Scott
Corrales and the other skeptics are doing to disqualify the case
and discredit Secretary of Defense General Vega trying to
change

the course of history. There's no way back and history has been
written.

I had the privilege of knowing this investigation since it's
birth back in April 2004, thanks to the confidence of Jaime
Maussan. For us the mexican researchers Secretary of Defense
General Clemente Vega is our champion, a true hero of democracy
who opened the military UFO files to the mexican people
establishing a direct communication and colaboration with the
civil UFO research. That changed history indeed.

We will continue supporting our Secretary of Defense as part as
our compromise corresponding to his confidence as well as the
armed forces in our country. Our communication is stronger than
ever and the future is very promising. We will continue
rejecting the ridicule claims of those common debunkers that
offer nothing to the serious and dedicate investigation on this
undeniable and irrefutable phenomena.


Santiago Yturria
Mexico






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                       Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 20:48:51 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:56:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Hall


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:09:38 -0500
>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:31:52 EDT
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:34:02 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:48:52 EDT
>>>>Subject: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>>With all the dreadful news coming out of the War on Terrorism,
>>>>the abuses, the vengeful murders, ol' President Bush is
>>>>literally between Iraq and a hard place.

>>>Sure. The aliens will land and Bush will discover that they
>>>aren't a voting democracy and feel obligated to correct the
>>>situation. I'm not sure I'd want Bush on our side.

>>I would highly recommend that if we truly want the politicians to
>>help us, we should not antagonize them with personal political
>>opinions.

>Absolutely. At this stage we ought to be well past the naive
>notion that this a free country in which we can openly express
>negative opinions of political leaders. We would all be well
>advised just to shut up and let them do whatever they want to do
>for - and, especially, to - us.


You mean like the aliens? Barbed wire anal probes? Of course to
question our leaders <quote> in a time of war <unquote> is
"unpatriotic" as we all know. Yes, let's stop being naive and
ask the politicians to help us. (But seriously, folks!)


 - Dick








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:05:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 07:24:43 -0400
Subject: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1


Hello All,

As advertised, here is the first installment. Any major goofs in
translation can be laid at my doorstep. ;)

-----

Source: http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm

El 5 de marzo 2004 UN AVION DE LA FUERZA AEREA MEXICANA
TIENE UN ENCUENTRO DE RADAR CON ONCE OBJETOS VOLADORES NO
IDENTIFICADOS; LA SECRETAR=CDA DE LA DEFENSA NACIONAL
AUTORIZA LA DIFUSION DE LAS IM=C1GENES

On March 5, 2004 a Mexican Air Force plane had a radar encounter
with eleven unidentified flying objects. The Secretary of
National Defense has authorized the dissemination of the images.

[ 1 - 3 Partes ]

Part One of Three

El 5 de marzo del 2004 sera recordado como un d=EDa historico, no
solo para la investigacion del fenomeno OVNI, sino tambien para
las Fuerzas Armadas de nuestro pa=EDs; ese d=EDa, un grupo integrado
por militares pertenecientes a la Fuerza Aerea Mexicana, tuvo un
encuentro inusual con un fenomeno aereo, un hecho extraordinario
que seguramente abrira una nueva era en la investigacion de los
Objetos Voladores No Identificados.

March 5, 2004 will go into the record-book as an historic day
for the investigation of the UFO phenomenon and for the armed
forces of our country; on that day a group belonging to the
Mexican Air Force had an unusual encounter with an aerial
phenomenon. An extraordinary event which surely will usher in a
new era in the investigation of Unidentified Flying Objects.

Ese d=EDa, un grupo integrado por 8 militares realizaban un
sobrevuelo de vigilancia durante una mision de combate al
narcotrafico, a bordo de un avion bimotor MERLIN C26/A, entre la
ciudad de Copalar, en el estado de Chiapas, y Ciudad del Carmen,
en el estado de Campeche. Entre las 5:00 y 5:30 p.m., el
operador del radar Teniente German Mar=EDn Ram=EDrez, repentinamente
ubico en la pantalla la presencia de 'ecos desconocidos', que en
primera instancia creyo que senalaban la presencia de aviones
ilegales operando en la zona. Tras ser informado, el piloto de
la aeronave militar, el Mayor Magdaleno Castanon Munoz, tomo
rumbo hacia donde el operador de radar le indico, esto es, a dos
millas de su posicion inicial. Sorprendentemente, al estar en el
punto en donde se supon=EDa deb=EDan estar las aeronaves no
identificadas, la tripulacion del avion de la Fuerza Aerea
Mexicana no ubico visualmente a los objetos.

That day a group of eight military personnel was executing an
observational fly-over mission in order to combat [intercept--
JV] illegal narcotics traffic. They were flying aboard a
twin-engine Merlin C26/A, between the city of Copalar, in the
state of Chiapas, and the city of Carmen, in the state of
Campeche.

Between 5:00 and 5:30 pm, the radar operator Lieutenant German
Mar=EDn Ram=EDrez, suddenly noticed the presence of 'unknown
returns/echoes' on his screen. At first he thought it signalled
the presence of aircraft operating illegally in the zone/area.

After being informed of the situation, the pilot of the military
aircraft, Major Magdaleno Castanon Munoz, altered course, moving
toward the area the radar operator indicated the unknown traffic
was currently located - two miles from its initial position.
Surprisingly, when they reached the area where the unknown
traffic 'should have' been, the crew of the Mexican Air Force
plane could not visually detect the objects.

Este hecho habr=EDa de inquietarlos, ya que el radar segu=EDa
senalado la misma ubicacion para aquella extrana presencia. Por
lo tanto, solicitaron al operador de la camara infrarroja
"FLIR", el Teniente Mario Adrian Vazquez Tellez, que observara
el monitor de la misma para tratar de encontrar el trafico
desconocido que era registrado y reportado. Incre=EDblemente, fue
=FAnicamente por medio de este dispositivo, que tiene la capacidad
de detectar ondas de calor a traves de la vision infrarroja, por
la que pudieron detectar lo que, cre=EDan, se trataba de aeronaves
no identificadas. Ante tan inusual acontecimiento y como parte
de su deber, los oficiales de la Fuerza Aerea decidieron darle
seguimiento a lo que detectaron con la camara, ya que se trataba
de unas extranas luces que se pod=EDan apreciar en la pantalla de
abordo conectada a la camara "FLIR". Cabe senalar que el radar
del avion segu=EDa dando la misma ubicacion para los Objetos
Voladores No Identificados.

This fact [that they could not visually ID the objects--JV] was
disturbing to them because radar signals indicated that they
were in the same location as the strange presence/phenomena.
Therefore the "FLIR" - infra-red camera - operator Lieutenant
Mario Adrian Vazquez Tellez, looked at his screen to ascertain
if the same 'unknown traffic' was still where it had been
registered/reported originally. Incredibly it was only by the
use of the infra-red equipment that they were able to detect
heat signatures that they believed were the unidentified
aircraft.

Because of these unusual events and because it was part of what
they do, Air Force officials decided to give the crew permission
to initiate _pursuit_ of the unknown objects they were detecting
with the [FLIR] camera. Because the strange lights were so
unusual they could be detected on the attack screen of the
"FLIR" camera. The airplane's radar kept giving the same
location for the unidentified flying objects.

End of part 1. Stay tuned... same Bat time, same Bat channel...
please be patient.


John Velez
40 acres, 1 mule! ;]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                     Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:31:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:51:15 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled - Hatch


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:38:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Hit Counter Tripled

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:58:18 -0700
>>Subject: UFO Hit Counter Tripled


>>I have a simple hit counter on the main entry page of my *U*
>>UFO Database website: http://www.larryhatch.net

>>I log numbers to count visitors for each day. Compared to the
>>same 24 hour period one week ago, my "hits" have more than
>>tripled for Wednesday 12MAY04.

>>Did anyone else see this? I'm trying to figure out why ...
>>some change I made, or just the Mexico air force sighting in

>>Campeche state. Did anyone else see a sudden jump in visits?

>>Feedback please if you can.

>WOW! Yes, indeed. Jumped from an average of about 150 per day
>for May 5 - 10 to 250 on May 11 and 920 on May 12! Already 300
>today (10 AM EST)

>Too bad I didn't have anything about this case on my site. Will
>remedy that right away!


Hi Bruce:

Wow indeed!! In percentage terms, you peaked at 6 times your
baseline! I peaked about 3 times my recent baseline, so your
'Campeche Effect' was double mine!

This puts you at the top of the list so far. The lowest increase
anyone wrote about so far was 30%.

This indicates a huge latent interest in UFO matters, one which
is piqued even with small or poor coverage on the mainstream
channels. It says nothing about the merits of the event, nor the
public, just that they are definitely interested if something
solid looking comes up in the news.

I get all my news off the internet so I can't say what (if any)
coverage there was in the SF bay area. I'd guess there was
little if any offhand from long past experience.

Numbers here look like the peaked Wednesday, fell back a bit
Thursday, and will likely trail off after that. I hope nobody is
too disappointed in the afterslump. Its always like that.

By all means put up technical materials on the cameras, radar,
weather etc. as those come to light. Your site is the perfect
venue, nobody else seems to cover it as well. All I can do is
put a dot on the map. (I hope the coordinates get clarified)

Everyone else can deal with explanations, mundane political and
otherwise.

Now I gotta look at 83 other emails, mostly about Mexico.


Best wishes

- Larry









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

             Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:42:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:52:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Gehrman



http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5152278&sect
ion=news

Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir
Fri 14 May, 2004 23:01

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - A cluster of mysterious objects that
surrounded a Mexican Air Force plane, alarming the pilots and
sparking a UFO scare, could be a weather phenomenon known as
ball lightning, a scientist said on Friday.

The pilots grew nervous during a routine drugs surveillance
flight in March when their radar detected strange objects flying
nearby and an infrared camera showed 11 blobs of light,
invisible to the eye, hovering or darting about their plane.

Mexico's Air Force this week released footage from the infrared
camera that was shown widely on television.

As Mexican and international media published photographs of the
objects, UFO Web sites saw the case as possible evidence of a
new sighting of some form of extraterrestrial life.

But nuclear science researcher Julio Herrera said the blobs of
light may have been nothing more than ball lightning -- glowing
spheres that are little understood but often sighted near the
ground during thunderstorms.

"Just as you have lightning between clouds and ground, you can
also have it within the clouds and sometimes ball lightning can
develop. I feel this is one of these rare events," said Herrera,
based at Mexico's National Autonomous University.

"It's a very rare atmospheric phenomenon and it would be very
interesting to be able to analyze all the information these
pilots obtained," he told Reuters.

UFO follower Jaime Maussan said on Tuesday the objects seemed
"intelligent" after they turned around to surround the plane
chasing them -- but Herrera said electrical discharges in ball
lightning could have been attracted to the plane as a conductor.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                     Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:49:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:53:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Lehmberg


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:09:38 -0500
>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:31:52 EDT
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:34:02 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:48:52 EDT
>>>>Subject: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>>With all the dreadful news coming out of the War on Terrorism,
>>>>the abuses, the vengeful murders, ol' President Bush is
>>>>literally between Iraq and a hard place.

>>>Sure. The aliens will land and Bush will discover that they
>>>aren't a voting democracy and feel obligated to correct the
>>>situation. I'm not sure I'd want Bush on our side.

>>I would highly recommend that if we truly want the politicians to
>>help us, we should not antagonize them with personal political
>>opinions.

>Absolutely. At this stage we ought to be well past the naive
>notion that this a free country in which we can openly express
>negative opinions of political leaders. We would all be well
>advised just to shut up and let them do whatever they want to do
>for - and, especially, to - us.

Yeah! They're only a reflection of us after all, and like our
faultless media a paragon of rationality, common sense, and
egalitarianism. We should get down on our knees and realize how
lucky we are to be _allowed_ to heat their water. We just _make_
trouble when we complain. They know best.

I'd continue, but I'd have to put a penny in the fuse box.

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:51:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:55:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs - Maccabee


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 19:21:47 +0000
>Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:56:50 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Dallas Fox News On Mexico UFOs

>>Really need a good copy video (coming) to determine whether or
>>not these could be "reflections" (of what?)

>Of what? High-speed pelican plasma balloons, of course!


Pelican-powered plasma balloons.

Yup.

I'll keep that in mind(less).








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

              Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:26:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:57:29 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:12:28 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:41:35 +0100
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:24:47 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>Ray, Stuart-

>I've also contacted Chris regarding his report, and he's not
>interested in providing proof, per se. However, he appears to
>have been involved in the military/defense genre for 10 to 15
>years and I wouldn't simply dismiss his statements out of hand.

>The question is whether or not "IR Lighting" is used for
>refueling operations and since it's designed for use during
>nightime refueling, I'm not sure why it was being used at 5:00p
>(or so) in the afternoon.

Isn't the question also why a stealth craft would show up on
radar at all? Shouldn't it be a simple matter to analyze the
radar signature of the objects in question? Shouldn't everyone -
on _both_ sides of this - just shutup with their armchair
pronouncemnts and wait until the data is in?


==JJS==








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                      Re: Jorge Martin Contact? - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 03:55:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:04:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Jorge Martin Contact? - Hale


List,

Does anyone have a contact email for Puerto Rican investigator
Jorge Martin?

I need this for an Australian TV Company.

If so, please email me off-list at:

roy.nul


Regards,

Roy







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                New Baghdad UFOs Multiple Witnesses & Footage

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 02:01:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:00:31 -0400
Subject: New Baghdad UFOs Multiple Witnesses & Footage


Source: Turks.US

http://www.turks.us/article.php?story030504130247424

05-15-04


Baghdad: UFO In Baghdad Skies

Sunday, May 04 2003 @ 01:02 PM Central Daylight Time
Contributed by: Admin

Iraqis familiar with the flashes of missiles in the sky, were
bewildered when they noticed an undefined light in the sky of
Baghdad.

Residents saw the stranghe sky material between Palestine Hotel
and Shareton Hotel and thought they were UFOs.

Press members also noticed the unbelievable sky material
surrounded with lights and they video taped the unbelievable
scene. The UFO could be seen for three hours than disappeared.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                       Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Grass

From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:20:09 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:03:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Grass


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:09:38 -0500
>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:31:52 EDT
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:34:02 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:48:52 EDT
>>>>Subject: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>>With all the dreadful news coming out of the War on Terrorism,
>>>>the abuses, the vengeful murders, ol' President Bush is
>>>>literally between Iraq and a hard place.

>>>Sure. The aliens will land and Bush will discover that they
>>>aren't a voting democracy and feel obligated to correct the
>>>situation. I'm not sure I'd want Bush on our side.

>>I would highly recommend that if we truly want the politicians to
>>help us, we should not antagonize them with personal political
>>opinions.

>Absolutely. At this stage we ought to be well past the naive
>notion that this a free country in which we can openly express
>negative opinions of political leaders. We would all be well
>advised just to shut up and let them do whatever they want to do
>for - and, especially, to - us.

Sorry dude, it's my fault for not making my point more clearly.
I did not state nor intend to imply any form of censorship.

Ufology has most probably changed more in the past two weeks
than ever before (in "our" favor). However, the U.S. military is
never going to give a respected UFOlogist a video of unknown
objects. Furthermore, we will never be able to knock on the door
of a "military house of public information" and gain access to
the information that we all know is there. Therefore, we
absolutely must have politicians on "our" side to help us gain
more access to this information. There is no better time than
right now!

Politics is a game, not a science. This has nothing to do with
"social political policies." President Bush is the most powerful
politician in the United States and we could do no better than
to obtain his help. The same goes for each member of the United
States Congress.

I'm not saying we have to praise their policies, give them
cookies or kiss their butts. I'm saying that we must have their
help.

If you wish to express negative opinions of our political
leaders, that is fine. Do it on another list as that has
absolutely no relevance to this list. Saying things to piss
politicians off does not help us at all.

We've got the most intelligent minds on the subject of UFOs in
the world right here on this list. They have not the time to
play the political game. I've only been following this subject
for the past 30 years, but I'll do it if necessary. Somebody
must do this as we absolutely need help from the politicians.
Now is the best time because the heat is on.


Robert Grass







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                    Re: Mexico UFO Case Statement - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 04:08:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:09:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Case Statement - Hatch



Dear Santiago Ytturia,

I only ask two things:

Longitude: DD/MS/SS

Latitude:  DD/MM/SS



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch












   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

              Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <denzlerb.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 07:13:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:13:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Denzler


>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:35:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal"

<snip>

>Before we run around promoting this footage as proof of UFO's,
>we need to examine this case and the surrounding sociopolitical
>variables carefully and objectively.

I agree, Amy. I'm beginning to learn that when something seems
too good to be true...it usually is. One day we may yet have a
"first contact" scenario. It would be wonderful if it were in my
lifetime (I think!). But the whole subject of UFOs and alien
contact has been burdened with such manipulation and so many
expectations that it behooves us to be careful before we
proclaim the arrival of that day.


Brenda Denzler










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                  Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" -

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:05:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:19:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" -


>From: Amy  Hebert <ahebert.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:35:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal"

<snip>

>This is for everyone:

>I'm not one for looking a gift horse in the mouth but... doesn't
>it strike anyone as odd that the Mexican Air Force made a
>deliberate effort to seek out Jaime Maussan to tell him this
>information and make the footage available to broadcast all over
>the world?

>Before we run around promoting this footage as proof of UFO's,
>we need to examine this case and the surrounding sociopolitical
>variables carefully and objectively.

I find the fact that the Mexican's gave the evidence to a UFO
researcher troubling too - perhaps because I worked for a former
Canadian Prime Minister for a long time and think a scenario
like this would be inconceivable here. I don't know how the
Mexican government works, but here the Department of Defence
would need clearance to hand over what could be regarded as
sensitive information to the public. That said, Mexico is not
Canada.

However, since we're all speculating, here's a possibility. The
Mexican government released the evidence to a UFO researcher
because Mexico is speculating that the US illegally invaded
Mexican airspace using secret stealth technology. Not wanting to
confront the US directly, they release the info to a UFO
researcher so it gives the world a "heads up" as to advanced
technology the US may have. Or Mexico and the US (the US has
called Mexico its "best friend") jointly worked on this project
in order to put fear into other countries that the US has
advanced technology and so gave the info to a UFO researcher.
Under these two hypothetical scenarios, the info would be given
to a UFO researcher because if it had been given to scientists
it would have been studied and then buried without public
knowledge.

So, the question is: Why did Mexico want worldwide coverage of
this event, at risk of humiliating their country
internationally?

That Mexico gave the evidence to a UFO researcher is, to me, the
fly in the ointment. I smell a rat.


Kelly








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 15

                 Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:40:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:21:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:52:38 -0400
>Subject: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>Source: La Jornada
>Date: May 13, 2004

>Ball Lightining, Not Saucers, Say Scientists

<snip>

>The alleged UFOs videotaped from the Mexican Air Force's Merlin
>C aircraft could be something of greater inmportance to science
>than the "mystical" presence of ETs. All appears to indicate
>that the cameras aboard the Mexican aircraft picked up one of
>the strangest and therefore most fascinating atmospheric
>phenomena: ball lightning.

<snip>

Yes, and The Great Pumpkin accounts for the majority of reports
of orange-colored UFOs, even descriptions of landings. That is
especially true on October 31, you name the year. The sometimes-
hypersonic pumpkin is of greater importance to science that the
"mystical" presence of ETs.

Yes, of course, if pelicans say so.


LMAO,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

               Re: Mexican UFO Incident Is All Velez's Fault -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:44:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:05:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Incident Is All Velez's Fault -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:35:40 EDT
>Subject: Mexican UFO Incident Is All Velez's Fault

>Mexican UFO Incident Is All John Velez's fault :)

>I have a theory. I think I'd stated it a while back when our
>admired and beloved colleague John Velez said he was retiring
>from Ufology.

>I think I or some of us mentioned that as soon as John put up
>his holsters that a big UFO event would occur just because they
>knew it would irk him enough to return.

Hi Greg,

>So it's all John Velez's fault! :)

My wife claims I hoaxed the whole thing in a kind of ufological
Munchausen by proxy fit, just so I'd have an excuse to jump
back in. <g>

>The 'aliens' did that display just to spite him.

They did too! Knocked me right out of my hammock -kerplunk!
Actually, I jumped back in temporarily because rather than just
using the case as an excuse to flap my lips in public (as some
are wont to do,) I thought I could actually make a
useful/practical contribution.

I have!

Because of my relationship with both, Jaime Maussan and Errol, I
was able to arrange (at warp speed) tonight's interview on SDI
with two of the principles. I will be acting as translator for
one of our guests this evening. On top of that there is some
translating work that I'm doing for the List. I suppose I'm just
trying to justify 'getting involved' with ufoology again to
myself.

>If my theory is correct, Stanton Friedman should announce a
>retirement and I'ld bet 5 minutes later the entire galactic
>conglomerate of extraterrestrials would land on the White House
>lawn.

I want Stanton to live 150 years in perfect health so that
future generations will be guaranteed to enjoy the pleasure
of meeting him and hearing him in-person.

>Reminds me of an old Warner Bros. cartoon where Sylvester the
>Cat went to 'Birds Anonymous' to kick his habit of chasing
>birds. Soon as he finally swore off the feathered friends an
>entire flock descended on him.

Sometimes I feel more like the character in Mel Brook's homage
to Hitchcock, 'High Anxiety.' There is one scene (spoofing 'The
Birds') where Mel is in Golden Gate Park frantically running
away from the relentless pursuit of a huge flock of pigeons. All
the while he is running the birds are defecating/emptying the
content of their bowels, all over him. By the end of the scene,
as he enters a dry cleaner, he is covered head to toe in bird
poop.

My involvement in 'ufoology' feels more like that.  ;)


John








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                       New Photos Of An Alleged Alien

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 08:09:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:06:35 -0400
Subject: New Photos Of An Alleged Alien



Real or a hoax?

I received some photos on the evening of May 14, 2004 of the
alleged Alien being. I have sent the photos also to my friend
Jaime Maussan for his thoughts on this. The below short story
was in a foreign language and I had to re-write the story,
keeping the statement close to what was sent to me. I have
written back to the person who sent the photos and trying to get
more information on this.

Person statement who sent the photos: She (a friend) was looking
at my photos when suddenly she noticed something rare in one of
them. I began to do zoom in and I discovered a humanoid form in
the back of the photo. I could not believe it. I thought that
someone was playing a joke on me but the people who were there
did not know that she was speaking about. I have spent hours
analyzing the photo and I did not find any anomaly. (I do not
want anyone to think I am a crazy person) If someone would like
to analyze the photo I am open for questions.


Photos can be viewed at:

http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1274

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250-845-2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                 Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 17:55:34 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:08:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:52:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:52:38 -0400
>>Subject: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

<snip>

>These "ball lightnings" lasted for minutes. Unprecedented
>durations.

>Incidently, if these were plasma objects, there were "cold
>plasma" because they were warm enough to emit infrared radiation
>but not hot enough to be visible sources of light. Infrared
>radiation has a lower energy (per photon) than visible light.


To Bruce and List,

I have a French correspondant who tells me that the atmospheric
re-entry hypothesis is compatible with a body emitting infrared
light, but no visible light. He says that when a body or plasma
reaches 700 degres C, it begins to be red in the visible
spectrum but is already "very luminous at 5 microns", and that
it could be the case of a satellite or meteor beginning to enter
the atmosphere. And also when it gets cooler if it leaves the
atmosphere. So that the Mexican video could well have recorded a
body making a "cool" entry. I don't believe it, but what would
say about it?


Gildas Bourdais







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

             Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - Brock

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:10:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican - Brock


>Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:52:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican

>Source: La Jornada
>Date: May 13, 2004

>>There is very little documentation and scientific proof on
>>ball lightning, they insisted, and unlocking the phenomenon
>>would represent a fundamental leap in the construction of
>>nuclear power generators, among other applications.

"Very little documentation and scientific proof on ball
lightning..." Yes, indeed. In fact, ball lightning is still
problematic enough in terms of explanation that it is safe to
classify it as an anomalous phenomenon, as Corliss has done in
"Remarkable Luminous Phenomena in Nature," (Glen Arm, Maryland:
The Sourcebook Project, 2001). Explantory schemes that suffice
for a BL which endures on the order of a couple seconds, for
example, fall apart when faced with reported BL durations of 10-
60 seconds. And there are even longer durations on record, along
with reported characteristics weird enough to challenge the most
dedicated theorist.

By arbitrarily pulling the ball lightning "explanation" out of
the hat these scientists have essentially invoked an anomalous
phenomenon to "explain" the observation of an anomalous
phenomenon. Functionally, it's just a shot in the dark. Given
the reported kinematics of "will-o'-the-wisp," or "ignis
fatuus," or "corpse candle," or whatever names (and there are
many) one wishes to apply to luminous phenomena which dart
about, they could have as easily slapped this label on the
Mexican phenomenon. Which is not very scientific, or even very
smart, in the long run.


Rod Brock


=====
THE MAGONIA EXCHANGE LIST
Collecting and sharing accounts
of anomalous aerial phenomena
from antiquity up to 1947.
http://nocturnal_lights.tripod.com/magoniax
http://anomalies.bravepages.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                            Mexico The Real Issue

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:42:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:13:14 -0400
Subject: Mexico The Real Issue


Mexico UFO The Real Issue

Dear Collagues and Friends,

The deep impact that the release of the mexican Air Force UFO
case has caused in the international media, the ufologic
community and the people in general has certainly produced an
important social phernomena that deserves a study and analisis.

An example as an exercise of what would be the reactions if an
official UFO disclosure is released to the world by any
goverment or armed force. The level of trascendency this
disclosure could reach and the social-political effects it will
imply. The evaluation it will permit to establish how much the
people knows and care about the UFO phenomena and if their
reactions would be positive in their majority.

Therefore and taking this in consideration we feel it's necesary
and urgent to make a reflection and state our position regarding
this case as mexican researchers. We agree that the actual
subject in the media circles and the ufologic community is
definitely this case.

But we see that the main attention and interest is been focused
more on the C26A footage than the official disclosure by our
Department of Defense. As the footage has awakened a great
interest because of it's unique characteristics everybody wants
to take a look to the images and see what's this all about. This
is logic and natural.

But for us researchers here in Mexico our main interest in this
investigation is not the footage itself but the long awaited UFO
disclosure by our military institutions, something that we were
looking for through decades. The footage is just the vehicle.
There may be discussions about the incident and the images taken
by the C26A equipment. The evidence will continue to be analyzed
and debated awakening a variety of reactions.

For the mexican Ufology the most important priority on this case
is the fact that the doors to establish an open relationship
with our armed forces and the official institutions have been
finally opened. The historic and trascendental decision that our
Secretary of Defense General Clemente Vega took to give this UFO
disclosure to the mexican people and the world is our main
interest with this case, to encourage this new established
relationship, to keep our link stronger and secure a very
promising future.

This is the real issue here.


Santiago Yturria







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

              "Sizeable Minority" Believe In UFOs, ET Landings

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:20:08 -0400
Subject: "Sizeable Minority" Believe In UFOs, ET Landings


NSB Reports "Sizeable Minority" Of American Public Believes In
UFOs, ET landings

Follow the links below for more; I have snipped all but the
introductory information and the section addressing public
belief in extraterrestrial visitation.

Rod Brock
--------

Source: Space.Com

http://www.space.com/news/public_space_040514.html

14-05-04

Public Attitudes Towards Space Exploration Surveyed
By Leonard David
Senior Space Writer

In the post-Columbia shuttle era, public support for NASA
remains high. But the tragedy prompted vagueness as to the
direction and intensity of piloted missions in the U.S. space-
related research and development effort.

Those views are part of the newly issued and wide-ranging
Science and Engineering Indicators 2004, the 16th in the series
of biennial reports conducted by the National Science Board.

The National Science Board (NSB) is an independent body
established by the U.S. Congress in 1950 that oversees and
guides the activities and policies of the National Science
Foundation (NSF) in Washington, D.C.

<snip>

Extraterrestrial visitors

Under a subsection titled, 'Belief in Pseudoscience', the NSB�s
Science and Engineering Indicators report looks to public belief
in visitors from afar.

Based on studies conducted by NSF and other organizations -- "a
sizable minority" of the public believes in unidentified flying
objects and that aliens have landed on Earth.

In a 2001 NSF survey, 30 percent of respondents agreed that
"some of the unidentified flying objects that have been reported
are really space vehicles from other civilizations."

For readers interested in viewing the full report, go to:

http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind04/start.htm


=====
THE MAGONIA EXCHANGE LIST
Collecting and sharing accounts
of anomalous aerial phenomena
from antiquity up to 1947.
http://nocturnal_lights.tripod.com/magoniax
http://anomalies.bravepages.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                        Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered

From: Terry Blanton <blantont.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 13:58:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:25:24 -0400
Subject: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered


(ebk, I think some of the Listers knew Mr. Mallove)

This message appeared on the Vortex List today:

-----

Subject:  Dreadful news
From:  Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell.nul>
Date:  Sat, 15 May 2004 12:00:38 -0400
To:  vortex-L.nul

I have dreadful news. It is difficult to report a thing like
this by e-mail, but I suppose I should.

I deeply regret to announce that Eugene Mallove is dead.
Apparently, he was murdered yesterday. I have few details, but
he was killed in a dispute over rental property.

His parents owned a house in Connecticut. They are now living
an nursing home, and he rented out the house. The tenants
apparently made a terrible mess, and he evicted them. He went to
the house a few days ago to clean up the mess. Someone killed
him, took the car, and left it around five miles away.

I have no information about funeral arrangements. I will post
another message when I hear something.

- Jed

-----

Mr. Mallove was the publisher of Infinite Energy magazine and
webmaster of:

http://www.infinite-energy.com/

The unfortunate news comes on the heels of a recent announcement
that the DOE is going to establish a panel to re-review cold
fusion research.  See the above web page for details.

Regards,

Terry










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                     Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:00:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:27:32 -0400
Subject: Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir


Source: Yahoo News

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=3&u=/nm/20040514/
sc_nm/life_mexico_ufos_dc

05-14-04

Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - A cluster of mysterious objects that
surrounded a Mexican Air Force plane, alarming the pilots and
sparking a UFO scare, could be a weather phenomenon known as
ball lightning, a scientist said on Friday.

The pilots grew nervous during a routine drugs surveillance
flight in March when their radar detected strange objects flying
nearby and an infrared camera showed 11 blobs of light,
invisible to the eye, hovering or darting about their plane.

Mexico's Air Force this week released footage from the infrared
camera that was shown widely on television.

As Mexican and international media published photographs of the
objects, UFO Web sites saw the case as possible evidence of a
new sighting of some form of extraterrestrial life.

But nuclear science researcher Julio Herrera said the blobs of
light may have been nothing more than ball lightning -- glowing
spheres that are little understood but often sighted near the
ground during thunderstorms.

"Just as you have lightning between clouds and ground, you can
also have it within the clouds and sometimes ball lightning can
develop. I feel this is one of these rare events," said Herrera,
based at Mexico's National Autonomous University.

"It's a very rare atmospheric phenomenon and it would be very
interesting to be able to analyze all the information these
pilots obtained," he told Reuters.

UFO follower Jaime Maussan said on Tuesday the objects seemed
"intelligent" after they turned around to surround the plane
chasing them -- but Herrera said electrical discharges in ball
lightning could have been attracted to the plane as a conductor.

-----


If they were attracted by the plane, why didn't they approach?








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                     Re: Jorge Martin Contact? - Rosales

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:19:57 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:30:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Jorge Martin Contact? - Rosales


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <Ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 03:55:17 +0100
>Subject: Jorge Martin Contact?

>Does anyone have a contact email for Puerto Rican investigator
>Jorge Martin?

>I need this for an Australian TV Company.

>If so, please email me off-list at:

>roy.nul


The last Email I had from Jorge Martin is not longer valid, and
he did not answer the previous emails


Albert







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                       Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:53:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:34:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Clark


>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:20:09 EDT
>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:09:38 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:31:52 EDT
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:34:02 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

<snip>

>>>I would highly recommend that if we truly want the politicians to
>>>help us, we should not antagonize them with personal political
>>>opinions.

>>Absolutely. At this stage we ought to be well past the naive
>>notion that this a free country in which we can openly express
>>negative opinions of political leaders. We would all be well
>>advised just to shut up and let them do whatever they want to do
>>for - and, especially, to - us.

>Sorry, dude, it's my fault for not making my point more clearly.
>I did not state nor intend to imply any form of censorship.

>Ufology has most probably changed more in the past two weeks
>than ever before (in "our" favor). However, the U.S. military is
>never going to give a respected UFOlogist a video of unknown
>objects. Furthermore, we will never be able to knock on the door
>of a "military house of public information" and gain access to
>the information that we all know is there. Therefore, we
>absolutely must have politicians on "our" side to help us gain
>more access to this information. There is no better time than
>right now!

Jeez. Exclamation point, yet.

Look, I take it that you're new to ufology. There is a long
history showing that the approach you suggest is hopeless. And
this is just about the worst time imaginable, with a collapsing
international situation, scandals current and imminent, and
grave economic problems. Bush is facing an uphill battle for a
second term, a concern infinitely greater than UFOs on his list
of priorities. The _last_ thing he is going to do - unless, of
course, he _wants_ to be mocked even more than he already has
been (we all recall what happened when he talked briefly of
backing manned flight to Mars, not even a fringe concept) - is
to identify himself with what immediately and universally would
be characterized as "UFO nuts." The resulting laughter would be
relentless, deafening, and worldwide, and in days Bush would be
at least mentally preparing himself for the move back to
Crawford, Texas. Whatever else might be said about him, Bush is
not that crazy.

>Politics is a game, not a science. This has nothing to do with
>"social political policies." President Bush is the most powerful
>politician in the United States and we could do no better than
>to obtain his help. The same goes for each member of the United
>States Congress.

>I'm not saying we have to praise their policies, give them
>cookies or kiss their butts. I'm saying that we must have their
>help.

And there is not a snowball's chance in hell we're going to get
it. If taken up at all (an implausible prospect for any mentally
well politician to start with), UFOs are a subject for quiet,
uneventful times. These are not those times.

The ideas you're proposing - beginning with making nice to a
President toward whom many of us, for what we judge to be many
good reasons, feel ill-disposed already - are, I'm sure, well
meant. But even most ufologists are smart enough to know that,
given the urgent, life-and-death crises we face today, UFOs can
hardly be the most pressing, vital issue facing the nation.
Unless, of course, you can prove to skeptical public servants,
generals, scientists, journalists, and intellectuals that the
War of the Worlds is about to erupt, and you can't.

No offense, but yours is as naive - not to mention as
politically unsophisticated - a posting as I've seen on this
List in quite a while, and that's saying something.

Dick Hall, who's had more real-world experience than any
American ufologist in dealing with the political dimensions of
the UFO question (from his days in Washington with NICAP in the
late '50s and '60s), will, I am sure, confirm all of the above.
I imagine that this exchange has afforded him some richly
deserved comic relief.


Jerry Clark








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

              Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 17:50:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:39:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Maccabee


>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:35:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal"

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:26:06 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal"

>>>Source: CTV Canada

<snip>

>>"That is where the skepticism kicks in: No way to know how are
>>>away these things are or in fact how fast they were moving."

<snip>

>>He says there is "no way" to know how far away these things
>>are." Well, about the radar report? According to the most
>>recent news story (rense.com) at one time they were 2 miles
>>away.

<snip>

>>These objects/lights were picked up by an infrared sensitive
>>system operating in the 3-5 micron range

According to FLIR systems engineer, 3.6 to 5 microns

>> whereas the video
>>imagery Semeniuk refers to is based on visible light. The
>>comparison he makes here is superficial and ignores one of the
>>key questions raised by this sighting: what can radiate
>>substantial power (hundreds of watts?) in the 3-5 micron
>>wavelength band while NOT radiating enough in the visible band
>>(0.4 - 0.7 microns) for the crew of the plane to see anything?

>>A heated body like a meteor (or the hot air plasma around it)
>>that radiates power in the infrared will also radiate in the
>>visible (which is why people can see it.) The main point is
>>_nothing_ should be "out there" causing any images on the IR
>>camera, to say nothing of very bright (saturated?) images of
>>things that are also detected (some of them at least) on radar
>>and also clearly travel with the airplane but were _not_ seen
>>by the crew _despite_ optimum daylight conditions.

>I'm curious, without visual confirmation can you accurately
>determine the size of an object based only on its infrared
>signature?

No... and yes... depends upon how big the object s and how
bright it is and how big and bright the image is. In this case
when the two very bright lights are side by side (with :"ghost"
images below each).

I estimate that _if_ they were 2 miles away at that time they
were 15-20 ft apart (horzontal measurement).

The diameter of each bright image corresponds to a size of about
7 ft. That does not mean that each bright object was 7 ft in
diameter. More likely it was smaller but radiating so much power
that the image "bloomed out" on the IR viewing screen.

The FLIR Systems engineers agreed that the images were
saturated... overexposed... which means the images are larger
than the "geomtric image."

For an imaging system (camera, video, FLIR) the "geometric size
of an image" is calculated from the actual size (measured
transverse to the line of sight) as follows:

W = object width
R = object range
F = focal length
I = image width
I = W(F/R).

This pertains for objects large enough and/or close enough to be
resolved by the imaging system. Resolution is another factor
that must be taken into account. Typically the resolution is
about 1 pixel or pixel element. Something that makes an image
that is only 1pixel in size on the focal plane will not be
resolved. In fact, resolution requires an image several pixels
in size (width). In this particular case the imager operated
with about 0.8 deg = 14 milliradians across the field of view
and this corresponds to the width of the "focal plane array" of
Indium Antimonide detector elements (similar to a CCD in a home
video camera).

The width is spanned by 320 detector elements of pixels, so one
pixel is about 4.4 E -5 radians in angular size which projects
to about 1/2 ft at 2 miles (assuming I calculate correctly!).
Hence if the object had been 1/2 ft or smaller it would have
made just a dt on the screen if it were radiating only a small
amount of power. But it did not make just a dot: it made an very
bright, large image. Therefore we can reasonably say that the
source of each light was between 1/2 and 7 ft in diameter with
the smaller number being more likely than the larger.

A question might arise: is there a structure between the
lights... something physcial/solid, holding them apart (or
together )?

The IR imager created an image of the sky background which
appears on all sides of each image. Had there been a "solid"
opaque structure (body of a craft) between the lights then it
should have blocked the background skylight and perhaps also
reflected sunlight. Conclude: no typically opaqe structure.

Speaking of reflecting sunlight, it must be considered that the
bright lights are seen at least in part as a result of scattered
sunlight. After all, the clouds are seen because of a
combination of heat (cloud temperature radiating)and scattered
sunlight.

One goal of a research project would be to determine how much of
the IR radiation was due to the temperature of the objects and
how much due to reflection of solar radiation.

Nothing like a long answer to a short question,ech?

>If these objects never came closer than two miles to the
>observers, how big would a UFO have to be to be visible at that
>distance?

Depends upon their contrast against the sky background. If they
were perfectly black objects or if they were shiny and reflected
the sun they could be quite small. A solid black of several feet
size might be visible. A solar glint from a few foot object
would probably be visible. Something ten feet in size at 2 miles
would be barely resolved by good human eyes. Apparently 8 people
saw nothing. That means that (a) the objects were tiny (but
power radiators of heat) (b) they were sizeable but had the same
background color and brightness in the visible band (0.4-0.7
micron) as the background sky.

Regarding (b), they passed through nominally clear sky, behind
bright clouds, and it seems to me also in front of clouds that
were shaded by other clouds. Because they were not seen in
visible light as blocking the sky background or blocking the
background of clouds I would guess they were small, but at this
stage... almost "anything goes."

>Of course the first thing a trained pilot and crew
>would look for in flying aircraft pacing them would be another
>plane or something of that size. If these objects were small,
>they might not be visible even at two miles distance but still
>show up on radar and IR.

Yes, if they were large enough for the radar and hot enough for
the IR sensor.

>http://www.aerovironment.com/area-aircraft/unmanned.html

>See: "MicorAir Vehicles".

>Is this possible?

>And since three of the objects did show up on radar, if we lowly
>humans know how to avoid radar detection, how come ET hasn't
>figured this out yet?

There are plenty of cases where UFOs have been picked up on
radar.... and also plenty of cases where they haven't, Is this
"optional stealth?"

>Sounds like these objects *wanted* to be observed yet not
>clearly photographed or visual confirmation. I wonder why.

IF ET I wonder if they suspected they were seen with an IR
passive sensor. They could detect the radar, presumably, which
sends out a signal and looks for a reflection. But the passive
IR sensor simply stares into space.

For the expert: if ET was looking at the plane with an
equivalent type of IR sensor, ET might have noticed a "black
hole" under the aircraft. Said black hole being the entrance
aperture of the FLIR viewer. Why black? Because the IR viewer
uses a "cooled focal plane array" operating many degrees below
zero C. To a thermal imager looking directly into the FLIR
system in its much hotter surroundings would actually "see" the
cooled focal plane and it would appear as a blackspot surrounded
by bright.

Something like this once happened to a NAVY IR system in the
straights near Istanbul back in the 70's. The detection of a
"black hole" in the scenery along th straight (houses,
buildings) raised the question of whether or not someone on land
was looking with an IR viewer at the ship at the same time the
ship was looking at the land. If so, the viewer on land saw a
"black hole" on the deck of the ship!!


>This is for everyone:

>I'm not one for looking a gift horse in the mouth but... doesn't
>it strike anyone as odd that the Mexican Air Force made a
>deliberate effort to seek out Jaime Maussan to tell him this
>information and make the footage available to broadcast all over
>the world?

They said they didn't know a scientist to give the information
to. But, on the other hand, someoneevidently did show it to a
physicist for comment since his report and theory is attached to
the Maussan report.

>Before we run around promoting this footage as proof of UFO's,
>we need to examine this case and the surrounding sociopolitical
>variables carefully and objectively.

Yup.

This islike the New Zealand case of December 1978 which also got
immediate worldwide notoriety and which was "explained" many
times over by ultimately incorrect suggestions.... but by time
the case had been fully investigated th press was onto other
things and "no one cared." You can read about it at
http://brumac.8k.com.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

              Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 17:56:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:41:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:05:13 -0400
>Subject: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

>As advertised, here is the first installment. Any major goofs in
>translation can be laid at my doorstep. ;)

-----

>Source: http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm

<snip>

>Because of these unusual events and because it was part of what
>they do, Air Force officials decided to give the crew permission
>to initiate _pursuit_ of the unknown objects they were detecting
>with the [FLIR] camera. Because the strange lights were so
>unusual they could be detected on the attack screen of the
>"FLIR" camera. The airplane's radar kept giving the same
>location for the unidentified flying objects.

>End of part 1. Stay tuned... same Bat time, same Bat channel...
>please be patient.

Thanks. Best translation yet. Can you keep your eyes peeled for
any statement that explicitly says the radar target and the FLIR
lights were exactly in the same direction. We are inferring that
that is true, but would be nice to see it explicitly stated -
something for an interview if not in the report.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

              Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:08:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:46:32 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:12:28 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:41:35 +0100
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:24:47 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>Ray, Stuart-

>I've also contacted Chris regarding his report, and he's not
>interested in providing proof, per se. However, he appears to
>have been involved in the military/defense genre for 10 to 15
>years and I wouldn't simply dismiss his statements out of hand.

FYI, I do not dismiss his statement out-of-hand (to use your
words), but out of reason, pure and simple.

If you think the U.S. would risk taking eleven (count them)
multi-million dollar state-of-the-art secret stealth craft down
into far southern Mexico to distract and surround a Mexican Air
Force grew trying to do drug interdiction work, then you'd
better take a refresher course in Logic (aka, Reason) 1.1!

If what happened had been a test of our capability, one or two
aircraft could do the job (and much closer to home) at much less
risk and cost.

To repeat your statement:

"I've also contacted Chris regarding his report, and he's not
interested in providing proof, per se. However, he appears to
have been involved in the military/defense genre for 10 to 15
years..."

FYI, it is Charles (Smith), not Chris. If he has really been
involved "...in the Military/defense genre for 10 to 15
years...", one wonders if he might not have a vested interest or
a covert axe to grind in convincing people it was just good old
Uncle Sam playing war games. Or, it could be he's just a 'bird
brain' - oops, a pelican, pardon me :) - in whom a little
knowledge is a dangerous thing.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                 Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:11:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:48:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack -


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:42:54 -0700
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5152278&sec
tion=news

>Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir
>Fri 14 May, 2004 23:01

>MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - A cluster of mysterious objects that
>surrounded a Mexican Air Force plane, alarming the pilots and
>sparking a UFO scare, could be a weather phenomenon known as
>ball lightning, a scientist said on Friday.

<snip>

>"It's a very rare atmospheric phenomenon and it would be very
>interesting to be able to analyze all the information these
>pilots obtained," he told Reuters.

This theory is "great" because it will provide a justifiable
impetus for careful investigation of the video.

Any ball lightning theorist must make some predictions about
what the ball lightning would do and these predictions can be
chacked against the actual video information. Verifiable proof
of ball lightning would be a "prize winning" event.

If scientists think this video proves the existence of ball
lightning, then they should spend time analyzing it (and not
dismiss it as secret US aircraft, balloons, meteors, or high
speed pelicans inside plasma balls... or whatever!)







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

              Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 19:36:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:16:49 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico -


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:26:38 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:12:28 -0400
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico

<snip>

>>Ray, Stuart-

>>I've also contacted Chris regarding his report, and he's not
>>interested in providing proof, per se. However, he appears to
>>have been involved in the military/defense genre for 10 to 15
>>years and I wouldn't simply dismiss his statements out of hand.

>>The question is whether or not "IR Lighting" is used for
>>refueling operations and since it's designed for use during
>>nightime refueling, I'm not sure why it was being used at 5:00p
>>(or so) in the afternoon.

>Isn't the question also why a stealth craft would show up on
>radar at all? Shouldn't it be a simple matter to analyze the
>radar signature of the objects in question? Shouldn't everyone -
>on _both_ sides of this - just shutup with their armchair
>pronouncemnts and wait until the data is in?

Good point, Jim, about whether the alleged super-secret, state-
of-the-art radar and visual stealth aircraft should show up at
all on the radar, but there is a lot more involved that is
diagnostic in this case than just "radar signatures". We have
eleven infrared-bright objects nicely imaged that maneuver
between cloud tops (behind one, and in front of the other more
distant cloud top). Anyone who didn't notice that, had better
watch more closely. Without need for any radar data, that, in
itself, provides us constraint for a minimum and maximum
distance in that sequence (and, hence, 'ballpark' speed data),
because the pilots surely have a pretty reliable sense of the
distance of, e.g., that nearest cloud top.

Now, let me comment on the B.S. (make that Pelican S.) comments
by some 'scientist' that the objects appear to be a breaking-up
meteor or satellite re-entry debris. That hypothesis (if you can
call it that) is totally falsified not only by the fact that (as
Bruce has pointed out) the objects or phenomena were not
radiating in the visible light range, but by the fact that we
have excellent infrared images of them passing between cloud
tops and on an essentially horizontal course.

But forget the horizontal course and look at the facts of meteor
and satellite re-entry characteristics: Those Mexico objects
that pass-between cloud tops are unquestionably at well below
twenty miles altitude (as was the aircraft from which they were
taped), and, thus, well below the altitude above which meteors
are slowed (by the atmosphere) to well below cosmic (or orbital
in the case of satellites) velocity and, thus, incandescence of
adjacent atmosphere (due to hypersonic friction) has ceased.
 That's true for satellite debris, too.

Desperate fools proffer desperate 'explanations'. The trouble is
that the media people are often too ignorant (due to lack of
knowledge, time, or both) to catch and call them on such B.S.
(P.S.)

Hopefully no one will interpret the time I am taking to comment
on this very interesting (and worthy of much study) case as
indicating that I think that herein we have a case that proves
the presence of E.T. technology. I don't for a minute think that
it provides such a diagnosis. It does not even seem (at least at
this point of our knowledge) at all diagnostic of propulsion
technique. But if properly analyzed, the evidence of this case
may be strong enough to encourage other and diverse avenues of
research. Period.

Note that the important evidence in this case is solely the
province of _instruments_. There was no visual component
whatsoever. This points up what I have advocated and put into
practice for decades: The supreme importance of instrumentally
recorded data that can be diagnostic enough to penetrate deeply
into the UFO matter. Human observation is a nice adjunct,
however, and this case would carry more weight in the minds of
most with that familiar dimension of detection. But notice how
accessible to analysis it is, even without that.


Ray Stanford







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                   Re: Mexico UFO Case Statement - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 19:01:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:18:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Case Statement - Yturria


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 04:08:48 -0700
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO Case Statement

>Dear Santiago Ytturia,

>I only ask two things:

>Longitude: DD/MS/SS

>Latitude:  DD/MM/SS


Sure Larry. This is the information I have from the data
supplied.

LAT N 18=B0 26.60=B4 :  LON W  90=B0 45.69=B4

Radio Detection: 50 miles
FLIR Range: -40=B0C till more than 1,500=B0C


Santiago








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                       Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 21:14:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:22:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Boone


>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:20:09 EDT
>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:09:38 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 04:31:52 EDT
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

<snip>

>>>I would highly recommend that if we truly want the politicians to
>>>help us, we should not antagonize them with personal political
>>>opinions.

>>Absolutely. At this stage we ought to be well past the naive
>>notion that this a free country in which we can openly express
>>negative opinions of political leaders. We would all be well
>>advised just to shut up and let them do whatever they want to do
>>for - and, especially, to - us.

>Sorry dude, it's my fault for not making my point more clearly.
>I did not state nor intend to imply any form of censorship.

<snip>

>We've got the most intelligent minds on the subject of UFOs in
>the world right here on this list. They have not the time to
>play the political game. I've only been following this subject
>for the past 30 years, but I'll do it if necessary. Somebody
>must do this as we absolutely need help from the
>politicians.

>Now is the best time because the heat is on.


Agreed on several points Robert Grass.

Yet 'Politics' is a part of our lives and if warrants, a
politician is fair target for scorn or praise.

In addition, you've directed this thread to something of utmost
importance. That being what we need to do regarding those who do
disclose information. The Mexican Government has done leaps and
bounds here. Unprecedented disclosure. They should be highly
commended.

It wasn't but about half a year ago if I recall many were openly
hostile and critical of the Mexican Government and of Jaime
Maussan. Yet now that the tables have turned, they should be
given the highest kudos and support.

We all should set a precedent ourselves for granting these
people who've shared this information and brought it forth,
regardless if it reveals new information or is just an error.

By setting an atmosphere where those who are brave enough to
come forth do receive the prestige and esteem for their courage,
others may come forward and do likewise.

Earlier this year I set out to look at one of the main reasons
why we don't have such cooperation here in the U.S. and more
than enough it was fear of ridicule, retribution and mostly
confinement to psychiatric care. That goes back to the first
victim the late Sec. of Defense James Forrestal.

We've got a long history of vindictive and harsh treatment of
those who would bring forth UFO data.

Both governmental and social harassment and brutality.

Perhaps the Mexican authorities and press are now proving
they're better and braver than the rest of the world and come
what may have set an example of how things should be done.

It ain't over yet and if these people receive the respect due
from their actions, you might just see our own president or some
higher up stepping forward to deliver the goods.

In the colloquial perhaps we can make 'UFOlogy cool'.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

              Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 23:26:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:24:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:05:13 -0400
>Subject: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

>Hello All,

>As advertised, here is the first installment. Any major goofs in
>translation can be laid at my doorstep. ;)

>-----

>Source: http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm

>On March 5, 2004 a Mexican Air Force plane had a radar
encounter with eleven unidentified flying objects. The Secretary
of National Defense has authorized the dissemination of the
images.

>[ 1 - 3 Partes ]
>Part One of Three

[snip]

>That day a group of eight military personnel was executing an
>observational fly-over mission in order to combat [intercept--
>JV] illegal narcotics traffic. They were flying aboard a twin-
>engine Merlin C26/A, between the city of Copalar, in the state
>of Chiapas, and the city of Carmen, in the state of Campeche.


Hello John:

This is excellent! I also called up the web page above so I
could see the pix and images.

The snippet above indicates something I missed. They flight was
between Copalar, Chiapas and Ciudad del Carmen in Campeche.

I got a response from Santiago Yturria, repeating the
coordinates he gave earlier:

"Sure Larry. This is the information I have
 from the data supplied. LAT N 18=B026.60=B4 : LON W 90=B045.69=B4 "

Copalar AFB Chiapas is at Lat N 16=B022.00' : Lon W 92=B015.00'*

while Cd./Carmen is at Lat N 18=B038'00' : Lon W 91=B050.00'

Approximate midpoint is Lat N 17=B030.00' : Lon W 92=B012.50'

* It was a bitch locating AFT Copalar, Chiapas. Not on any map
or gazetteer I could find, I have it maybe 15KM NW of Comitan de
something-or-other, Chiapas. If is hadn't made a lot of news
related to Zapatista uprisings in the area, it could have wound
up on my Lost Locations list

http://www.larryhatch.net/LOSTLOCS.html

All these places are well to the West and South of the first
location indicated above, over rough terrain with poor roads. I
am very troubled by inconsistencies in actual location.

The nearest place to Yturria's N 18=B026.60=B4 x W 90=B045.69=B4 is
Ciudad del Carmen, some 66 nautical miles away. The midpoint is
more like 103 NM away. Am I the only one who finds a problem
here?

I deeply regret that I fell asleep and was unable to get my list
of questions to John Velez in time for the radio show. I hope
that went well.

For now at least, my questions boil down to two:

1) Where exactly did these events take place? If over the course
of a flight, where did this all begin and end?

2) Was there anything new or unusual about this particular drug
interdiction flight? The aircraft, its equipment, flight path
etc., which might have attracted the attention of the mysterious
'objects'?



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                 Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 00:43:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:28:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:40:16 -0400
>Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:52:38 -0400
>>Subject: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>Source: La Jornada
>>Date: May 13, 2004

>>Ball Lightining, Not Saucers, Say Scientists

><snip>

>>The alleged UFOs videotaped from the Mexican Air Force's Merlin
>>C aircraft could be something of greater inmportance to science
>>than the "mystical" presence of ETs. All appears to indicate
>>that the cameras aboard the Mexican aircraft picked up one of
>>the strangest and therefore most fascinating atmospheric
>>phenomena: ball lightning.

><snip>

>Yes, and The Great Pumpkin accounts for the majority of reports
>of orange-colored UFOs, even descriptions of landings. That is
>especially true on October 31, you name the year. The sometimes-
>hypersonic pumpkin is of greater importance to science that the
>"mystical" presence of ETs.

>Yes, of course, if pelicans say so.

>LMAO,

>Ray Stanford

List,

Of course, all of us without technical qualifications are
watching this debate closely. One question, please - have you
noticed that the two sets of UFOs in clusters of three seem to
be in the same position relative to one another? That is, the
three in one set seem to be in the same position relative to the
each other as the three in the other set.

Is this important?

Would three objects - birds, planes, UFOs, ball lightenings,
etc. - fly in the same configuration as the other set of three?

Or could this mean that both sets of three are a reflection of
something else - e.g., from the ground or elsewhere in the air -
or that the two sets of three are fixed relative to one
another - e.g., exhaust pipes?

Diana
Cape Town







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                           Egyptian UFO Sightings

From: Mo Elnadi <mnadi.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 05:37:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:31:38 -0400
Subject: Egyptian UFO Sightings


Dear Listers,

I thought to share those interesting and documented reports of
UFOs and strange Fireballs sightings over Sinai, Sharm, Kantara,
Dahab, Aswan, Luxor and Cairo:

http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/006/S06124.html
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/002/S02904.html
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/026/S26098.html
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/020/S20927.html
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/023/S23030.html
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/028/S28176.html
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/025/S25987.html
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/029/S29210.html
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/012/S12276.html

Please share your reports or let us know if you know of anyone
who witnessed something like that in Egypt.

Waiting for your contributions.

Mo
el-shella.com founder









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                              Big Lake Mystery

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 07:30:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:36:31 -0400
Subject: Big Lake Mystery


Source: Council Bluffs Daily Nonpareil - Council Bluffs, Iowa

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11658112&BRD=2554&PAG=461&dept_id=5071
34&rfi=6


05-16--04

Mystery At Big Lake: Fire In The Sky
Greg Jerrett
Staff Writer

"And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a
great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was
about it, and out of the midst thereof as the color of amber,
out of the midst of the fire. -- Ezekiel 1:4


Ezekiel saw the wheel and spoke of it as a mystical vision.

Was Ezekiel's vision a sign from God? Or did it signify
something entirely different? Something the prophet was
incapable of explaining?

Since the earliest of recorded history, man has seen and
reported things that could not be explained. In the sea, on the
land and in the sky. The bizarre and unexplained have always
been dismissed as myth, vision and fantasy.

 The great mountain gorilla was once just a crazy story - not
unlike Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster - told by madmen and
savages. It is only in the modern era that gorillas have been
accepted as the most common attraction at any municipal zoo.

Mermaids were just manatees, not sea borne lovers as many
sailors had hoped. Leviathans and other denizens of the deep
have been identified as whales and large squid, nothing more.

Even the Bermuda Triangle is losing its mystery as scientists
begin to fathom that its bubbling depths sink ships more often
than the devil, aliens and ghosts.

Troy was a myth until it was discovered, what then of Atlantis?

Mysteries give life depth. It is our nature as rational beings
to try and solve those mysteries. It is all a part of the great
adventure of the mind.

Council Bluffs is not without its own mysteries. One of the
greatest unsolved riddles in this sleepy railroad town occurred
on Dec. 17, 1977, when Kenny, 17, and Carol Drake, 16, and
Carol's brother Randy James, 12, were driving Kenny's Dodge
Challenger to the Richman Gordman store on North 16th. According
to a Daily Nonpareil story dated Dec. 18 of that year, several
witnesses in addition to Drake, saw a bright red object fall
from the sky toward Big Lake. When Kenny, Carol and Randy saw
the object, they went with great haste toward the lake. On the
dike along the road between the lake and the railroad tracks,
was a molten "blob" of glowing orange metal. The pool of metal
was slowly running down the sides of the dike and was too hot to
touch.

According to an article published in the now defunct Omaha Sun
on Feb. 9, 1978, Kenny Drake, who is now dead, saw four men
about 18 or 19 years old drive by the site in "a tiny foreign
car." As they passed the three on the dike, they asked if "they
saw that thing fall out of the sky, too?"

The car turned around and drove by the sight again without
stopping. This fact would become more relevant later on as the
possibility of a hoax was discussed and who, if anyone, might
have perpetrated such an act and how.

"It looked like a great big sparkler at first. Then it cooled
down and seemed like lava, glowing and bubbling. I thought it
was a meteor," said Kenny in the Sun article.

Randy James is still alive and living in Council Bluffs. He said
he is not now and never has been "a real UFO buff."

He said that he hasn't really talked about what has been
referred to as "The Big Lake Incident" since he spoke to Dick
Ulmer for the Sun story in 1978, not for any reason dramatic or
suspicious - though Kenny told the Sun that he had purportedly
received a call from the United States Air Force insisting that
he never mention his sighting again.

"Basically, we were heading down North 16th, and we saw what
kind of looked like a ball of fire streaking from the sky. It
appeared to come straight down. We saw a flash so you could tell
it kind of hit the ground," Randy said. "Maybe it was space
junk. We stayed there with the fire department and picked up a
couple of pieces. There was a blue crystal in the middle of the
pool of metal. When it cooled down a bit, we picked up a piece
of the metal about the size of a toothpick and couldn't break
it."

The bluish crystalline pieces were not affected by the heat,
according to both Randy and Kenny.

At the same time that Kenny, Carol and Randy were driving up
North 16th, Mike and Criss Moore were driving east on Broadway.
Just as they crossed 16th, they saw what Criss described as "a
big round thing hovering in the sky below the tree tops."

"It was hovering. It wasn't moving," Criss told investigators.

Criss also told the Sun she saw "red lights around the perimeter
of the object, blinking in sequence."

A middle-aged couple who saw the event and spoke to
investigators by telephone, but refused to be identified for
fear of ridicule said they saw "a bright red object rocket to
the ground near Big Lake."

Former Fire Chief Jack Moore, father of Mike Moore, was called
out to the scene where the grass had caught fire and the ground
was smoldering. He told the Nonpareil in a story at the time
that Kenny told him "something red fell out of the sky to the
southeast, hit the ground and exploded in flame."

When he arrived on the scene, Moore said he found a grassy area
about four by six feet on a levee off Big Lake to be covered by
a mass of molten metal, said the Nonpareil article.

"It was running, boiling down the edges of the levee. The center
of it was way too hot to touch," Moore said at the time.

It should be noted that calls were made to Eppley Airfield as
well as Offutt Air Force Base by investigators, according to the
Sun. They could not explain the phenomenon as an air crash.

Astronomer and Nonpareil Columnist Bob Allen was a secondary
witness to the event. He heard about it by the next day, Sunday,
and went to take a look at what remained. Overnight, most of the
metal had been chipped away, but a few pieces remained.

Allen did several things that would later make the Big Lake
incident important to another investigator. The first is that he
took a sample of the metal to Griffin Pipe to have the metal
analyzed. He also sent a sample to Ames Lab at Iowa State
University. Both said the metal was simply high-carbon steel of
a very terrestrial origin. Part of it seemed to be slag, the
kind of metal used widely in manufacturing.

Allen also sent samples to the Foreign Technologies division of
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and received a letter from Col.
Charles H. Senn who confirmed that the object could not have
been space-borne because of the lack of an impact crater; could
not have been part of a satellite because the metal was too
common and space debris does not become molten or glow; the USAF
had no interest in the case.

Meteors fall from the sky as stones and even the earliest of
space craft were made of light metals with a high alloy content.
The molten metal of Big Lake was far too primitive to be a
satellite of human manufacture.

Part of an airplane perhaps? Even if the metal had come from an
aircraft not noted by Eppley or Offutt, it would not have fallen
in a semi-molten state.

All of this leads to one explanation that would satisfy the
theory that a hoax had been perpetrated. Remember the four
unidentified men in the small car who seemed only vaguely
interested in the flash, but not enough to stop?

Perhaps they had planted the metal in its molten form or melted
it using Thermite then set off a flare to attract attention but
didn't count on the quick reaction time of Kenny, Randy and
Carol who would have practically caught them in the act?

This was also right at the time that "Close Encounters of the
Third Kind" was in theaters. In fact, Mike and Criss Moore joked
about having seen the movie only the night before in the Star
article. Perhaps imaginations were running wild and one thing
seemed like another.

But in any event, a hoax would have taken a tremendous amount of
effort to pull off just for a few laughs. For one thing, molten
metal is hard to come by. It can't be transported easily and
certainly not in "a small foreign car" with four men in it.

Allen concluded that the use of Thermite to melt the metal at
the location would have been extremely unlikely as no local
sources of the material were available at the time and
considerable amounts of ice should have been present on the
ground around the metal had pranksters attempted to cool the
metal with water as was indicated by surface structures on the
metal itself.

And so we are left with what we began, a mystery.

If the Big Lake incident is a hoax, it is one of the most
cleverly perpetrated hoaxes requiring the perpetrator to be
simultaneously smart enough to pull off the hoax while being
simple-minded enough to be amused by a prank that just as easily
could have gone unnoticed. The pranksters would also have had to
be willing to spend a great deal of time, energy and money.

In many ways, this incident has not drawn a great deal of
attention. It certainly doesn't garner much attention even
locally.

The incident did catch the attention of Jacques F. Vallee, noted
computer scientist, astronomer, astrophysicist, writer and
member of the Society for Scientific Exploration where he has
studied unidentified aerial phenomena.

In a report entitled "Physical Analyses in Ten Cases of
Unexplained Aerial Objects with Material Samples" presented at
the Pocantino Conference in Tarrytown, N.Y., in September 1997,
Vallee used what he calls "the Council Bluffs case" along with
descriptions of nine other similar events from around the world
to describe what he speculates could be part of a liquid metal
electrical system in which the high conductivity of liquid
metals makes them an attractive means of current collection,
according to the author, that could also be a part of a nuclear
design for a flying object's power plant using direct energy
conversion rather than a heat driven engine such as a plane
uses.

Put simply, magnets could move liquid metal inside a
"magnetohhydrodynamic" generator instead of gasoline being used
to move pistons to create motion. The MHD generator would be
quiet and could explain why even base terrestrial metals might
be found associated with such a strange phenomenon.

Sadly, we might never know what fell from the sky on Dec. 17,
1977. Bob Allen and Randy James agreed that one explanation has
yet to be fully explored. It is possible, according to both men,
that what fell to earth that night did land on the levee.

It is possible that what fell to earth actually fell in Big Lake
and what ended up on the levee was merely a splash that wouldn't
have left a crater.

"Look in the lake," said Allen. "Get your scuba gear on and look
in the lake."







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                     Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:37:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:38:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Gevaerd


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:42:00 -0500
>Subject: Mexico The Real Issue

>Mexico UFO The Real Issue

>Dear Collagues and Friends,

>The deep impact that the release of the mexican Air Force UFO
>case has caused in the international media, the ufologic
>community and the people in general has certainly produced an
>important social phernomena that deserves a study and analisis.

>An example as an exercise of what would be the reactions if an
>official UFO disclosure is released to the world by any
>goverment or armed force. The level of trascendency this
>disclosure could reach and the social-political effects it will
>imply. The evaluation it will permit to establish how much the
>people knows and care about the UFO phenomena and if their
>reactions would be positive in their majority.

>Therefore and taking this in consideration we feel it's necesary
>and urgent to make a reflection and state our position regarding
>this case as mexican researchers. We agree that the actual
>subject in the media circles and the ufologic community is
>definitely this case.

>But we see that the main attention and interest is been focused
>more on the C26A footage than the official disclosure by our
>Department of Defense. As the footage has awakened a great
>interest because of it's unique characteristics everybody wants
>to take a look to the images and see what's this all about. This
>is logic and natural.

>But for us researchers here in Mexico our main interest in this
>investigation is not the footage itself but the long awaited UFO
>disclosure by our military institutions, something that we were
>looking for through decades. The footage is just the vehicle.
>There may be discussions about the incident and the images taken
>by the C26A equipment. The evidence will continue to be analyzed
>and debated awakening a variety of reactions.

>For the mexican Ufology the most important priority on this case
>is the fact that the doors to establish an open relationship
>with our armed forces and the official institutions have been
>finally opened. The historic and trascendental decision that our
>Secretary of Defense General Clemente Vega took to give this UFO
>disclosure to the mexican people and the world is our main
>interest with this case, to encourage this new established
>relationship, to keep our link stronger and secure a very
>promising future.

>This is the real issue here.

>Santiago Yturria


Dear Santiago:

Once again you are absolutely right. I couldn=B4t agree more with
you when you say that the most important thing on this case is
the fact that the doors to establish an open relationship with
Mexican armed forces have been finally opened. This is just
extraordinary news.

UFO researchers in many nations have been seeking the very same
thing, but they haven=B4t been lucky enough to have a case such as
the March 05, or an open-minded general such as Vega around.
You, Mexicans, have. I believe that this is the most important
moment for Mexican Ufology and if you succeed in having those
doors opened, specially as the world media announces it, the
relationship with the military in your country will cause a very
positive impact on other nations as well, such as the ones in
Central and South America.

As this thing in Mexico happened just in the middle of our
campaign against UFO secrecy in Brazil (UFOs: Freedom of
Information now), we intend to use this example fully and
intensively to reach our own military and make them see what is
going on. I urge that collegues in Central and South America
countries do the same at this point.

In between this large movement, I am glad to announce that the
major of city of Varginha, where two supposedly alien creatures
were captured on January 20, 1996, has decided to promote a
great UFO congress from July 29 to August 1st this year. He has
granted full support to the oppening of the Varginha Case in
deep. This is a reaction to our campaign above mentioned.

Wish you and Jaime all luck in your efforts to open the doors.
Your success will have a great impact worldwidely.

A. J. Gevaerd







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

              Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 21:15:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:44:02 -0400
Subject: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions


Hello All:

I recently wrote to Charles Smith asking:

Dear Mr. Smith:

Regarding your 13MAY04 article on the Mexican 'ufo' sightings. I
was completely unaware of panels (or whatever) that render an
aircraft completely invisible in broad daylight. I would like to
learn more about this having studied physics in college years
back.

Any info on the invisibility technology would be highly
appreciated.

- Larry Hatch

-----


Charles Smith wrote back:

-----

See the PBS Nova series - Diguises of War - it has an excellent
segment on project Yahootie and isoluminescence - the idea is to
mask aircraft using lights that match the light level of the
background.  The British Army demonstrated that even objects on
the ground could be hidden.  The last stealth aircraft (the
Boeing Predator) was equipped with an early version of this kind
of daylight stealth technology.     [-CS]

-----

best


-  LH








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                           Mexico UFO Map Updated

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 04:53:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:46:20 -0400
Subject: Mexico UFO Map Updated


Hello all (fellow map freaks at least)

Having clarified the location of the Mexican Air Force sighting
05MAR04, I refreshed my map of Central America to show the new
event.

The new sighting is highlighted by two green arrows in the
center of the map on these pages:

http://www.larryhatch.net/CAMER.html (English version)

http://www.larryhatch.net/CAMERES.html (in Spanish)

Its a pity that I didn't do it sooner. Site visits are dropping
off as expected, so I see another 4-day wonder in terms of
public attention.

 From a baseline of 500/day on my main entry page, I went to
around 780 Tuesday, 1792 Wedn., 1483 Thursday, 1207 Friday and
now 885 for Saturday.

Site visits are about as good a meter of public attention as I
can think of offhand. With each click, users democratically and
privately vote for whatever interest them.  Back to Jlo's fanny.


Best wishes

- Larry







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

             What Happened To Abductee Home Detector Experiment?

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:00:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:33:48 -0400
Subject: What Happened To Abductee Home Detector Experiment?


Whatever happened to those recording instrument clusters which
were being set up in abductees' homes to monitor several
environmental parameters? Their results should have been made
public by now, I'd guess?







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                    Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Rue

From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:51:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:36:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Rue


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: Ufo UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:23:23 -0700
>Subject: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>Pardon my ignorance, but is there any precedent for this case?
>Has there been an instance where UFOs have shown up on infrared
>AND radar before? Could this indicate a sea change in the
>phenomena? Or perhaps something we've been missing for lo these
>60 years?

I also know of no case involving both radar and IR readings.

There are reports of intense heat accompanying UFO observations.

During a UFO sighting on August 19, 1961, in La Boule, France,
the local weather station detected a heat increase resembling
1.38 mV.

During the great heat wave in summer, readings showed an
increase of only 0.4 mV. (H. Ragaz 1961: Weltrundschau, in: Der
Weltraumbote, Nr. 68/69, p.15.)

Intense IR waves "burned out" the wrist watch of a UFO witness
on June 19, 1969, between King's Lynn and Docking, England.
During the UFO sighting, the fluorescence cyphers of the
witness' watch lit up. After the sighting the cyphers would
never light up again. The car's motor hat stalled. When the
witness left the car, he felt as being in a strong electrostatic
field. His hair stood up. 30 to 50 meters above him hovered an
orange glowing "inversed mushroom", as large as a house. (G.I.R.
Lore 1969: Strange Efects of UFOs, Washington: NICAP.)


Hannes







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                       Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:53:51 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:27:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'? - Hall


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:53:19 -0500
>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

>>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:20:09 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Will Bush Go 'UFO'?

<snip>

>The ideas you're proposing - beginning with making nice to a
>President toward whom many of us, for what we judge to be many
>good reasons, feel ill-disposed already - are, I'm sure, well
>meant. But even most ufologists are smart enough to know that,
>given the urgent, life-and-death crises we face today, UFOs can
>hardly be the most pressing, vital issue facing the nation.
>Unless, of course, you can prove to skeptical public servants,
>generals, scientists, journalists, and intellectuals that the
>War of the Worlds is about to erupt, and you can't.

>No offense, but yours is as naive - not to mention as
>politically unsophisticated - a posting as I've seen on this
>List in quite a while, and that's saying something.

>Dick Hall, who's had more real-world experience than any
>American ufologist in dealing with the political dimensions of
>the UFO question (from his days in Washington with NICAP in the
>late '50s and '60s), will, I am sure, confirm all of the above.
>I imagine that this exchange has afforded him some richly
>deserved comic relief.

>Jerry Clark

Politicians (for the most part) tend to blow with the winds, and
the winds are strongly in the wrong direction.


Dick Hall
(Jerry Clark Dittohead & former 10-year employee of
Congressional Information Service)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

              Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:02:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:32:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 17:56:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:05:13 -0400
>>Subject: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

>>As advertised, here is the first installment. Any major goofs in
>>translation can be laid at my doorstep. ;)

>-----

>>Source: http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm

><snip>

>>Because of these unusual events and because it was part of what
>>they do, Air Force officials decided to give the crew permission
>>to initiate _pursuit_ of the unknown objects they were detecting
>>with the [FLIR] camera. Because the strange lights were so
>>unusual they could be detected on the attack screen of the
>>"FLIR" camera. The airplane's radar kept giving the same
>>location for the unidentified flying objects.

>>End of part 1. Stay tuned... same Bat time, same Bat channel...
>>please be patient.

Hi Bruce,

You wrote:

>Thanks. Best translation yet. Can you keep your eyes peeled for
>any statement that explicitly says the radar target and the FLIR
>lights were exactly in the same direction.

The translation of the report is as close as I can get to what
was is 'literally' being said in Spanish. Having read the whole
of it the impression I have in regard to the sequence of events
pertinent to your question is as follows: *Santiago... please
jump in and correct me if I am misreading or misstating any of
the following.

1.The radar operator spots a single 'unidentifiable' object (on
radar.)

2. Following standard operating procedures they are given a
green light to pursue and ID the 'unknown' target.

3. The military plane then alters course moving toward the
location of the radar target. (Which was approx. two miles from
where they were located at the time of detection.)

4. When they arrive at the location where the unknown _should_
be they are surprised to find that they are unable to identify a
visual corollary to what was being painted on the radar screen.

*Bruce, the way I read it it sounds like they have a hard radar
target painted the whole time. Other than a mention of the
object having moved behind some clouds, there is no mention in
the report of a _loss_ of the radar target at any time during
the CE event. The people you really need to interview are the
members of the crew.

Contact Jaime Maussan. He will do all he can to answer any
questions that may arise out of your inquiry into this matter.
He seems very willing to co-operate with your investigation in
any way he can.

BTW, Jaime wants to bring you to Mexico so that you can present
_in_person_ the results of your analysis to the Secretary of
Mexican National Defense, **General Ricardo Clemente Vega
Garcia. (**Who should have a statue erected to him! ;)

5. It is at this point that the FLIR camera operator and system
is engaged when he is asked if he is picking anything up on the
IR detection system.

The report states that they used radar to spot, and navigate
toward, the original UFO. When FLIR is engaged it is pointed in
the direction of the radar target, -the FLIR _corroborates_ the
radar hit.

>We are inferring that that is true, but would be nice to see it
>explicitly stated - something for an interview if not in the
>report.

Last night, on SDI, Jaime promised to provide copies of Rodolfo
Garrido's technical analysis reports so that EBK can post them
at the Virtually Strange Network website. In the meantime, as
the translation progresses (albeit slowly) I will keep a wary
eye out for the specific information that you seek. Again,
please be patient, I'm juggling several time and attention
demanding activities simultaneously. I am gratified to hear that
my efforts are an improvement on what was already available.

Re: Translation software - It _universally_ sucks! It's always
better done by a good old fashioned scribe.  :)


Regards,

John Velez









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                 Re: New Photos Of An Alleged Alien - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:03:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:51:01 -0400
Subject: Re: New Photos Of An Alleged Alien - Myers


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 08:09:06 -0700
>Subject: New Photos Of An Alleged Alien

>Real or a hoax?

>I received some photos on the evening of May 14, 2004 of the
>alleged Alien being.

I looked at the photos and thought they looked very similar to
another supposed alien photo case:

http://www.rense.com/general32/faking.htm


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

              Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:19:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:15:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Velez


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:11:34 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:42:54 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5152278&se
ction=news

>>Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir
>>Fri 14 May, 2004 23:01

>>MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - A cluster of mysterious objects that
>>surrounded a Mexican Air Force plane, alarming the pilots and
>>sparking a UFO scare, could be a weather phenomenon known as
>>ball lightning, a scientist said on Friday.

><snip>

>>"It's a very rare atmospheric phenomenon and it would be very
>>interesting to be able to analyze all the information these
>>pilots obtained," he told Reuters.

>This theory is "great" because it will provide a justifiable
>impetus for careful investigation of the video.

>Any ball lightning theorist must make some predictions about
>what the ball lightning would do and these predictions can be
>chacked against the actual video information. Verifiable proof
>of ball lightning would be a "prize winning" event.

>If scientists think this video proves the existence of ball
>lightning, then they should spend time analyzing it (and not
>dismiss it as secret US aircraft, balloons, meteors, or high
>speed pelicans inside plasma balls... or whatever!)


Hi Bruce, Ed, All,

The skeptics are confounded by this case/video. Some have been
reduced to arguing about why the video was given to a UFO
researcher, as opposed to scientists, avoiding any discussion of
the case or the video altogether. Talk about shutting a lot of
mouths!

I also hope that in the process of analyzing the video no one
loses touch with the air-crew report part of it. There are
indications that the unidentified flying objects recorded are
under intelligent control. According to the report the events
unfolded as follows:

1. UFO spotted by radar operator.

2. Officials decide to pursue/intercept the unknown. Orders are
issued and the airplane alters course toward the UFO.

3. As they pursue the object (observing it on FLIR and radar
only) it eventually ducks behind some clouds.

4. Eleven UFOs appear and four of them proceed to 'surround' the
airplane.

5. All the UFOs take off/disappear.

If events unfolded in the manner reported, there are very
straight forward cause and effect relationships behind the
actions of the military plane and the apparent 'response' of the
UFOs, i.e. the military craft initiates an aggressive move
_toward_ one of the UFOs, the UFO evades by ducking into cloud
cover, then the UFOs companions arrive on the set and they
commence to surround the military aircraft.

The message implied by the action taken by the UFOs is
unambiguous. What happened was a (peaceful) show of 'force',
They outnumbered the military aircraft. By surrounding it they
sent a very clear message.

The UFOs' act of navigating into positions surrounding the
aircraft demonstrates intelligent/intentional guidance.

If the video part holds up to rigorous analysis, this case just
may be the smoking gun case (the ufological Holy Grail) we've
all been looking for. In the meantime, I will wait and watch
with every one else as things continue to progress.


Regards,

John Velez









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                     Re: Kudos To Dave Furlotte - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:21:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:55:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Kudos To Dave Furlotte - Velez


Hi Dave, All,

Dave Furlotte has been offering up his 'take' on the UFO phenom
on EBK's 'Strange Days... Ineed' for many years. It never ceases
to amaze me how consistently spot-on he is in his observations.
Not to mention the fact that his head and his heart always seem
to be in the right place. He deserves a heap of praise and our
thanks for all of the unpaid time and labor he expends on our
behalf.

He raises the public's awareness about an important issue that
most will dismiss out of hand if not ridicule. A thank-less
task.

Last night is an example of how 'right-on' Dave usually is. In
his "My Take On It" piece, he swatted about a dozen 'flies' that
we would have had to take time to address during our interview
with Maussan & co. Because Dave swept all that hum-buggery away
in his segment, it allowed us to concentrate on other, more
pressing questions with our guests.

That's bloody brilliant team-work. The kind of thing you can
count on Dave Furlotte to provide.

Furry, I tip my hat to you and bow deeply at the waist. -en
publico- If 'ufology' had a journalism award to bestow on its
participants you'd deserve one.


With great affection and respect,

your friend, and long-time team mate,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                      TV UFO Mexico On The Web Tonight

From: Tomek Wierszalowicz <uforaport.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:26:09 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:57:49 -0400
Subject: TV UFO Mexico On The Web Tonight


The TV show is scheduled for this Sunday May 16, 2004 on the
Internet at 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM Mexico Time. The link:

http://jaimemaussan.tv/

You need the RealOne player or the Windows Media Player
installed to watch the programme.


Regards






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                       Length Of Mexican UFO Sighting?

From: Carl Feindt <waterufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:07:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:01:12 -0400
Subject: Length Of Mexican UFO Sighting?


Hello List,

Just a quickie as I've had to delete most of the Mexican
sighting text. I was wondering if there was a total elapsed time
that these items were tracked (Radar though departure) as that
might be a limiting factor on the "Ball lightening" idea?

Carl Feindt








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

               Re: Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:29:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:04:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir - Myers


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 14:00:01 -0500
>Subject: Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir

>Source: Yahoo News

>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=3&u=/nm/20040514
/sc_nm/life_mexico_ufos_dc

>05-14-04

>Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir

>MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - A cluster of mysterious objects that
>surrounded a Mexican Air Force plane, alarming the pilots and
>sparking a UFO scare, could be a weather phenomenon known as
>ball lightning, a scientist said on Friday.

<snip>

Oh, yes... that _must_ be the cause of this! 31 minutes of
footage of ball lightning caught on film and on radar. I have a
word for this explanation: bulls%&*t. Well, the assault has
begun and I'm sure we're in for more.

And while I make no secret of thinking that Jaime Maussan is
anything but a great UFO investigator, the article is clearly
set out to make him appear to be some kind of UFO cult idiot by
calling him a "UFO follower" and trying to make out the pilots
as being "nervous" to make them appear inept. The footage stands
on its own.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM

Don't Trip On Your Open Mind... Or Let Silly Ball Lightning
Excuses Cause Static To Cloud Up The Picture








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                 Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:42:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:05:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 21:15:03 -0700
>Subject: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions

>Hello All:

>I recently wrote to Charles Smith asking:

>Dear Mr. Smith:

>Regarding your 13MAY04 article on the Mexican 'ufo' sightings. I
>was completely unaware of panels (or whatever) that render an
>aircraft completely invisible in broad daylight. I would like to
>learn more about this having studied physics in college years
>back.

>Any info on the invisibility technology would be highly
>appreciated.

>- Larry Hatch


>Charles Smith wrote back:

>See the PBS Nova series - Diguises of War - it has an excellent
>segment on project Yahootie and isoluminescence - the idea is to
>mask aircraft using lights that match the light level of the
>background.  The British Army demonstrated that even objects on
>the ground could be hidden.  The last stealth aircraft (the
>Boeing Predator) was equipped with an early version of this kind
>of daylight stealth technology.     [-CS]


Larry,

>From "Sight Unseen" by Hopkins/Rainey. Page 61

Although it's unclear how far along the project actually is,
NASA's Jet Propulsion laboratory has proposed a sensor-and -
display system that would create an illusion of transparency
around almost any object. Whether an aircraft, a tank, or
perhaps a building, the objects would effectively be invisible.
Called "adaptive camouflage", these systems generate displays
that change in response to changing scenes and lighting
conditions.

This technological "magic" actually mimics nature's own
camouflage adaptation in which an animal's exterior color
gradually changes to blend in with the color and texture of its
environment. In the Florida vacationland of the 1950's, for
example, live lizards called anoles, or American chameleons,
were often sold to tourists. As a small girl with a dollar and a
love of all creatures, I'd buy one of the tiny lizards. With a
noose and a pin, I'd harness it to my blouse and watch with
amazement as the chameleon became a living, breathing, matching
accessory. If I was wearing a pink blouse, the chameleon would
gradually blush like a young girl. If I was wearing green, the
chameleon became a twist of lime on my shirt.

But NASA is proposing something even trickier then what the
lizard is doing by sympathetically altering its skin color: The
agency's camouflage system uses a sophisticated optoelectrical
system to project the scene from the far side of an object onto
the near side of the object (the side closest to the onlooker).
The object's surface, then, would be akin to a movie screen,
mirroring faithfully the ambient conditions through which the
object travels - shifting clouds, foliage patterns, and lighting
conditions.

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory proposes developing this
"adaptive camouflage" with a flexible network of electronic
flat-panel display units, a bit like the flat, liquid crystal,
high definition television sets now available to consumers. The
display units are arrayed as a blanket that covers all visible
surfaces of the object one desires to cloak. Each display panel
contains an active pixel sensor (APS) - or another form of
advanced image sensor - that peeks out of a small aperture, like
an eye pressed to the peephole in a door. Behind each image
sensor lies a complex network of fiber optics that transfer the
image from each APS to a display panel on the opposite side of
the cloaked object. The craft essentially becomes a big- screen
projection of whatever environment it is flying through - in
essence, invisible.

These lightweight optoelectronic systems are built to be readily
operated on power provided by the vehicle's or object's
electrical system. Using such a system, a UFO could hover in a
bright sky fleeced with clouds and never be seen by the human
eye.


Stuart Miller








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

             Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <denzlerb.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:04:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:08:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Denzler


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:19:46 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

><snip>

>The message implied by the action taken by the UFOs is
>unambiguous. What happened was a (peaceful) show of 'force',
>They outnumbered the military aircraft. By surrounding it they
>sent a very clear message.

>The UFOs' act of navigating into positions surrounding the
>aircraft demonstrates intelligent/intentional guidance.


John,

With all due respect, I disagree. If things happened in fact as
the crew reports indicate, all we can say for sure is that the
objects and/or their operators (if in fact they have operators
and are not "entities" in their own right, as opposed to
inanimate objects) noticed and appeared to respond to the
presence of the Mexican plane.

To say that they were sending a signal other than awareness of
the presence of the plane is to impute motives that they might
not have had. When a group of dolphins surrounds a boat and
travels with it over the seas, do we say that the dolphins are
engaging in a "peaceful show of force"? No. Because we do not
attribute that kind of intelligence to dolphins, our
interpretation of their actions is different.

Just because we do attribute that kind of intelligence to the
unknown craft sighted by the Mexican plane and its crew, we are
not therefore justified in suggesting that they were intending a
show of force. We know that whatever it was showed awareness. We
might interpret that awareness as merely interest and curiosity
(which is what first came to _my_ mind), or as a show of force,
or as an act of momentary alarm (just as antibodies rush toward
an intruder)..... And there may be other possibilities.


Brenda Denzler








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

           Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:26:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:11:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists


>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 00:43:44 -0700
>Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:40:16 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:52:38 -0400
>>>Subject: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>>Source: La Jornada
>>>Date: May 13, 2004

>>>Ball Lightining, Not Saucers, Say Scientists

>><snip>

>>>The alleged UFOs videotaped from the Mexican Air Force's Merlin
>>>C aircraft could be something of greater inmportance to science
>>>than the "mystical" presence of ETs. All appears to indicate
>>>that the cameras aboard the Mexican aircraft picked up one of
>>>the strangest and therefore most fascinating atmospheric
>>>phenomena: ball lightning.

>><snip>

>>Yes, and The Great Pumpkin accounts for the majority of reports
>>of orange-colored UFOs, even descriptions of landings. That is
>>especially true on October 31, you name the year. The sometimes-
>>hypersonic pumpkin is of greater importance to science that the
>>"mystical" presence of ETs.

>>Yes, of course, if pelicans say so.

>>LMAO,

>Of course, all of us without technical qualifications are
>watching this debate closely. One question, please - have you
>noticed that the two sets of UFOs in clusters of three seem to
>be in the same position relative to one another? That is, the
>three in one set seem to be in the same position relative to the
>each other as the three in the other set.

>Is this important?

>Would three objects - birds, planes, UFOs, ball lightenings,
>etc. - fly in the same configuration as the other set of three?

>Or could this mean that both sets of three are a reflection of
>something else - e.g., from the ground or elsewhere in the air -
>or that the two sets of three are fixed relative to one
>another - e.g., exhaust pipes?


Hello, all.

I've been so busy I haven't had time to comment. So I'll take a
quick pot shot at this thread with my own personal experience.
I've been around FLIR systems. Used a  lot in Firefighting.What
the C-26 crew saw was defiantly _anomalous_.

The Ball lightning argument is specious. I have in my 20 some
odd, years of flying weather,smoke and flame,-sometimes all
three at once - I experienced St. Elmo's fire, Cloud to Cloud
and what was later determined, _Ball_ lightning - inside a Piper
Navajo. That sucker traveled the length of the airplane and
exploded with a sulphurous bang. Mechanics though it was a
Static discharge, I guess it was. Sort of. Later a physicist
firend,who was an expert on such things, was convinced it was
ball lightining.

Now what were they? well the C-26 is a Merlin product simular to
a Metroliner. Two engines,Williams Air Reasearch, Or Pratt and
Whitney PT-6 depends on operator preference. Neither engine
generates any flame, normally very, normally.

No, ball lighting doesn't fly formation, trail and follow
airplanes.As to reflections, ah, over the Jungle? from what?


GT McCoy

Supersonic,Reflective,Storm Riding,Pelican non-beleiver.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                              Poggio's Facetiae

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:38:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:13:07 -0400
Subject: Poggio's Facetiae


Poggio's *Liber Facetiarum* is a 15th-century collection of
anecdotes which are mostly sexual, scatological, or
anticlerical, but there are some fortean items among the jests.

Giovanni Francesco Poggio Bracciolini, *The Facetiae*, trans.,
Bernhardt J. Hurwood. New York: Award Books, 1968.

Tale XXX A Miracle

This year, nature has brought a number of monsters into the
world in various places. In the territory of Sinigallia, which
is in the Picentino country, a cow gave birth to a dragon of
amazing size. Its head was larger than that of a calf, and its
neck was as long as a man's forearm, while its body was doglike,
only longer. When the cow saw what she had spawned, she bellowed
as loud as she could and tried to flee in terror. But the dragon
arose and wrapped its tail around her hind legs, put its mouth
to her udders, sucked out all the milk, then left the cow and
fled to the nearby woods. After this, the cow's teats and other
parts of her body touched by the dragon's tail became blackened
as though burned, and remained that way for a long time.

The cowherds (in whose fields the cow had been) affirmed what
they had seen, and that the cow has since had calves. All of
this was in a letter from Ferrara. [P. 47]

Tale XXXIII About still another monster

It is beyond doubt that the replica of a sea monster found
recently on the coast of Dalmatia was brought to Ferrara. From
the navel up it had the body of a man, and below, that of a
fish, this lower, fishlike portion being bifurcated. It had a
long beard, two prominent horns above the ears, huge breasts, a
wide mouth, and hands with only four fingers. From the hands to
the armpits and belly there protruded fins which it used to
swim.

Here is how it was captured. There were several women by the
shore, washing linen rags. Driven by hunger, they say, the
creature approached one of them, grabbed her with his hands, and
tried to drag her off. She was able to resist because the water
was shallow, and she screamed loudly to her friends for help.
Five of them rushed to her aid, and since the monster could not
return to deep water, they destroyed it with sticks and stones.
When it was dragged up to the beach it struck no small terror
into those who saw it. The body was a little longer and somewhat
heavier than that of a man. I have seen the wooden image of it
that was brought to Ferrara. What lends credence to the belief
that the thing seized the woman to feed on her is that several
children who had gone to wash at that beach on different
occasions have never been heard of again. They are now believed
to have been captured and killed by the monster. [Pp. 48-9]

Tale XCVII Miracles related by my secretary

When he returned from the country known as Brittany, on the
eighth day after the Ides of October, in the next to last year
of Pope Martin's reign, my secretary, Giovanni, told me of
miracles he had seen with his own eyes. Being an educated man,
he was not a liar. First, it had rained blood between the Loire,
Berry, and Poitou, so profusely that it stained the stones.
Similar occurrences having been frequently recorded in history,
it appear less incredible. [...] [P. 91]

Tale CLXVI Of omens reported to Pope Eugene

This year in October, when the pope was in Florence for the
second time, a number of omens were reported on such good
authority, that it would appear unwise to disregard them. They
were described in a letter from Como which was written by men of
great honesty, who said that they had gotten their information
from eyewitnesses. From a certain spot about five miles out of
Como one evening at nine P.M., a horde of red-looking dogs,
headed towards Germany, were spotted from four miles away. The
first rank was followed by a huge number of cattle and sheep,
next came infantry and cavalry, split into companies and
squadrons, a number of them wearing armor. There were so many of
them that they made up an entire army. Some appeared to have
almost no heads, and some appeared to be headless. The rear rank
was followed by an enormous man as big as a giant, who rode a
huge horse and drove a number of pack animals. The passage went
on for nearly three hours and was seen in a number of places so
that many men and women saw it and even came closer in order to
get a better view. After sunset the cavalcade passed, but it was
not seen anywhere else. [P. 142]

Tale CCXXXVIII Of a battle between magpies and jays

In this year 1451, during the month of April, a monstrous thing
took place in that part of France known as Brittany. Magpies and
jays, after forming aerial battle lines, made an immense noise,
and fought bitterly all day. The jays were victorious, two
thousand of them and four thousand magpies were found dead on
the ground. Time will reveal the significance of this prodigy.
[P. 194]

Tale CCXLVII Of a man, who, for two years, neither ate nor drank

In truth, what I am about to insert in these tales of ours will
seem more fabulous than the others, for it is repugnant to
nature, and may appear more incredible, yet the truth of it has
been so definitely indicated, that it cannot be tactfully
denied. A man named Jacob, who was a copyist in the curia during
the time of Pope Eugene, returned to his native place, Noyon,
France, and suffered for a long time from a grave illness. It
would require too long a narrative for me to tell all that
happened to him during that illness. After many years, during
the sixth year of the pontificate of Nicholas V, he returned to
the curia to visit the sepulchre of Our Saviour, and he came
back naked and destitute, for he had met robbers along the way.
He called on curia members, neighbors of mine, most honest men,
who had known him in the past. He told them that for the two
years following his illness he had neither eaten nor drunk,
although he had tried many times. He is an emaciated man, a
priest, and in his right mind, for he always says Mass, and has
heard it in my presence. Many theologians and physicians have
spoken with him seriously, saying that his condition is contrary
to nature, but so valid that it would be perverse not to believe
it. Many people come daily to question him, and there are a
number of opinions about the matter. Some believe that his body
is inhabited by the Devil, but there are no signs of his being
anything but a prudent, honest, and religious man, who today
makes a living by his pen. Others say that the melancholy nature
of his humors sustains him. I have conversed with him many
times, paying no attention to what has been said of him. He says
that he is as baffled over his condition as the others,
explaining that he did not give up sustenance all at once, but
gradually. My amazement would be even greater had I not, while
examining some chronicles which I copied in France, read of the
same thing happening during the reign of the Emperor Lothair,
and Pope Pascal, in the year of Our Lord 822. A girl of twelve,
at Commercy in the province of Toul, after taking holy communion
at Easter, went first for ten months, then for three years
without meat or drink, then afterwards, resumed her former way
of life. This man hopes that his future will be the same. [Pp.
201-2]


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1.nul >
     Alternate: < fortean1.nul >
Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html >
Sites: * Fortean Times * Mystic's Haven * TLCB *
      U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program
------------
Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List
   TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > [Southeast Asia
veterans, Allies, CIA/NSA, and "steenkeen" contractors are welcome.]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                      Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Booth

From: BJ Booth <Ufocasebook.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:53:00 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:18:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Booth


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:42:00 -0500
>Subject: Mexico The Real Issue

<snip>

You have made some very excellent points in your message. It has
been overwhelming to me that there has been so much media
coverage on this event, and there is a reason for it.

So many UFO sightings by individuals go unnoticed, simply
because they do not have an "official" stamp to them.

The Mexican authorities have created a precedent that we have
long waited for. The governments of the world seem to believe
that "we the people" are just not smart enough or emotionally
secure enough to handle the truth.

I realize that every conceivable explanation has been offered
for the sightings, yet even if there turns out to be an
"earthly" explanation for the unknowns, the most important thing
to come from the release is the release itself. Hopefully we can
build on this, and go forward with more confidence.

Thank you for your comments,

B J Booth
www.ufocasebook.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 16

                Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:07:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:20:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican -


>From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican

>>Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:52:10 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican

>>Source: La Jornada
>>Date: May 13, 2004

>>>There is very little documentation and scientific proof on
>>>ball lightning, they insisted, and unlocking the phenomenon
>>>would represent a fundamental leap in the construction of
>>>nuclear power generators, among other applications.

>"Very little documentation and scientific proof on ball
>lightning..." Yes, indeed. In fact, ball lightning is still
>problematic enough in terms of explanation that it is safe to
>classify it as an anomalous phenomenon, as Corliss has done in
>"Remarkable Luminous Phenomena in Nature," (Glen Arm, Maryland:
>The Sourcebook Project, 2001). Explantory schemes that suffice
>for a BL which endures on the order of a couple seconds, for
>example, fall apart when faced with reported BL durations of 10-
>60 seconds. And there are even longer durations on record, along
>with reported characteristics weird enough to challenge the most
>dedicated theorist.

Essentially explaining one unknown as another unknown.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

               Launch of US Geospatial Intelligence Foundation

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:27:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:29:04 -0400
Subject: Launch of US Geospatial Intelligence Foundation


Source: GeoCommunity

http://spatialnews.geocomm.com/dailynews/2004/may/13/news4.html

05-12-04


Official Launch of United States Geospatial Intelligence
Foundation (USGIF)

OAK HILL, Va.-- The United States Geospatial Intelligence
Foundation (USGIF) today formally announced its formation as a
non-profit organization that brings together the key players
involved in the geospatial intelligence sector to promote the
tradecraft and to collaborate on the execution of a national
geospatial intelligence agenda.

The vision of the USGIF is to have an organization that serves
the many disciplines involved in the geospatial intelligence
community, and to develop a stronger partnership between
government, industry, academic and professional organizations
and individuals involved in the development and application of
geospatial intelligence data and the deployment of geo-
processing resources.

"The geospatial intelligence community operates in an
environment characterized by a number of often competing,
diverse data sources, amidst an equally sophisticated array of
geo-processing technologies to counter the full range of threats
to the national security of the United States," said K. Stuart
Shea, chairman of the board of directors, USGIF. "The USGIF will
be a forum where members can work together outside their own
organizational and corporate interests toward a mutual goal of
improving our Nation's national and homeland security through
the benefits of their work."

The USGIF aims to promote geospatial intelligence by conducting
and sponsoring education programs and developing scholarships,
as well as publishing and distributing educational publications.
Membership will include individuals, companies, non-government
organizations, academics and government agencies involved in the
geospatial intelligence industry sector.

"The founding members of USGIF realized that there was an
inherent need in the geospatial intelligence community for a
unified vision and approach to promoting the tradecraft," said
USGIF vice president of operations Steve Jacques. "We aim to be
the glue that holds the GI community together."

In only three months since it began, USGIF members already
include Analytical Graphics, Inc. (AGI), BAE Systems, Ball
Aerospace & Technologies Corp., Boeing, Booz Allen Hamilton,
DigitalGlobe, Inc., EarthData International, Eastman Kodak
Company, ESRI, General Dynamics, Harris Corporation, Intergraph,
Lockheed Martin Corporation, ManTech International Corporation,
Northrop Grumman Corporation, Oracle Corp., Questerra, LLC,
Raytheon and Science Applications International Corporation.

The USGIF will host a national GEOINT 2004 symposium October 12-
14 in New Orleans, at which key members of the Geospatial
intelligence community are expected to attend and exhibit. The
symposium builds upon the highly-acclaimed GEO-INTEL 2003
symposium and will assess how geospatial technologies can
further the national security agenda. For more information on
GEOINT 2004, visit www.geoint2004.com.

The U.S. Geospatial Intelligence Foundation is a Virginia-based
nonstock, not-for-profit corporation that is applying for a
Section 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status. The foundation is dedicated
to promoting the geospatial-intelligence tradecraft and
developing a stronger community of interest between government,
industry, academic and professional organizations and
individuals who share a mission focus around the development and
application of geospatial intelligence data and geo-processing
resources to address national security objectives. For more
information on the foundation, visit:

http://www.usgif.org


-- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin,
Sierra Vista,
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

                 Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:25:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:30:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 21:15:03 -0700
>Subject: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions

>I recently wrote to Charles Smith asking:

>Dear Mr. Smith:

>Regarding your 13MAY04 article on the Mexican 'ufo' sightings. I
>was completely unaware of panels (or whatever) that render an
>aircraft completely invisible in broad daylight. I would like to
>earn more about this having studied physics in college years
>back.

>Any info on the invisibility technology would be highly
>appreciated.

-----


>Charles Smith wrote back:

-----

>See the PBS Nova series - Diguises of War - it has an excellent
>segment on project Yahootie and isoluminescence - the idea is to
>mask aircraft using lights that match the light level of the
>background.  The British Army demonstrated that even objects on
>the ground could be hidden.  The last stealth aircraft (the
>Boeing Predator) was equipped with an early version of this kind
>of daylight stealth technology.     [-CS]


Does he have any evidence that there are many of such craft
operational and likely to be flying over th Yucatan Peninsula
for any reason whatsover?







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

              Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:38:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:33:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:02:14 -0400
>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 17:56:52 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

>1.The radar operator spots a single 'unidentifiable' object (on
>radar.)

>2. Following standard operating procedures they are given a
>green light to pursue and ID the 'unknown' target.

>3. The military plane then alters course moving toward the
>location of the radar target. (Which was approx. two miles from
>where they were located at the time of detection.)

According to the original reports the initial radar distance was
37 miles (Linda has this on her earthfiles web site). Is there
no mention of 37 miles in the test you are translating? Perhaps
that text skips over the initial detection and picks up the
story when the plane reaches the 2 miles distance?

Also, woudl be nice to know if the object was moving. Clearly
the plane was traveling faster than the object to approach it.
Question is, how much faster.

>4. When they arrive at the location where the unknown _should_
>be they are surprised to find that they are unable to identify a
>visual corollary to what was being painted on the radar screen.

>*Bruce, the way I read it it sounds like they have a hard radar
>target painted the whole time.

Interesting. According to reports they detected only at most
three. Wonder if this means one aftter another or if, on the
radar screen, they had first one detection blip, then two and
then three, all at the same time. (Note to myself: need to find
out what the radar "blips" looked like - how big compared to
aircraft at the same distance - and the separations of the 3
blips)

>Other than a mention of the
>object having moved behind some clouds, there is no mention in
>the report of a _loss_ of the radar target at any time during
>the CE event. The people you really need to interview are the
>members of the crew.

>Contact Jaime Maussan. He will do all he can to answer any
>questions that may arise out of your inquiry into this matter.
>He seems very willing to co-operate with your investigation in
>any way he can.

Yes, he is sending me and the FLIR engineer a copy of the video.

>BTW, Jaime wants to bring you to Mexico so that you can present
>_in_person_ the results of your analysis to the Secretary of
>Mexican National Defense, **General Ricardo Clemente Vega
>Garcia. (**Who should have a statue erected to him! ;)

He hasn't said that to me. This analysis could take weeks to
complete. At any rate, it isn't going to be fast because it will
probably be necessary to carry out experiments with a comparable
FLIR system in order to understand what the images really mean.
 Scientists will be interested in things like speed, equivalent
temperature, radiant intensity, etc.

>5. It is at this point that the FLIR camera operator and system
>is engaged when he is asked if he is picking anything up on the
>IR detection system.

Apparently you are saying that they waited until they got to
about 2 miles from the target before they turned on the FLIR.

>The report states that they used radar to spot, and navigate
>toward, the original UFO. When FLIR is engaged it is pointed in
>the direction of the radar target, -the FLIR _corroborates_ the
>radar hit.

This is important!

>Re: Translation software - It _universally_ sucks! It's always
>better done by a good old fashioned scribe. :)

I prefer the software in your brain! Thanks!








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

                             UFOs Over Iran 2004

From: Mo Elnadi <mnadi.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:51:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:36:50 -0400
Subject: UFOs Over Iran 2004


Dear Listers,

Check this story about one of the recent UFO sightings in Iran,
with a new video clip from original 20 minutes footage.

http://www.ancientx.com/nm/anmviewer.asp?a=57&z=1


Regards

Mo






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

                 Re: New Photos Of An Alleged Alien - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:14:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:37:57 -0400
Subject: Re: New Photos Of An Alleged Alien - Shell


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 08:09:06 -0700
>Subject: New Photos Of An Alleged Alien

>Real or a hoax?
>Photos can be viewed at:

>http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1274

In my non-expert opinion, I would say "hoax!" If only for the
fact that the alien is relatively light-colored, and if it was
as close to the car as it appears, then I can't imagine it not
showing up brighter in the original photo. I would also say that
the alien looks too stereotypical.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

                            PRG Update - 05-17-04

From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 02:54:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:42:25 -0400
Subject: PRG Update - 05-17-04


PRG
Paradigm Research Group

Update - May 17, 2004


Dr. Eugene Mallove

PRG has noted the murder of Dr. Eugene Mallove, alternative
energy researcher and theorist. He held degrees from MIT and
Harvard. The initial indication from the police reports points
to a bludgeoning during a home invasion/robbery. His vehicle was
also stolen and later recovered. Dr. Mallove intersects and
overlaps the politics of disclosure in three ways: 1) he has
been a guest on Coast to Coast AM, 2) he was looking into
alternative energy research, including zero-point, which may
have a connection to retrieved and/or reversed engineered
extraterrestrial technology, and 3) he was dealing in areas
which challenge and/or endanger positions and agendas of very
powerful governmental and corporate entities.

Any new murder, suicide or indeterminate death of a researcher
or activist directly or indirectly connected to the politics of
disclosure will be noted with even greater interest and
reported. If necessary, the "Health Watch" section of the PRG
website will be reactivated with ongoing updates. Should anyone
on this list learn of such a death, please contact PRG
immediately.

www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ct--norwichkilling0516may16,0,6929832.stor
y?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire
www.paradigmclock.com/Portal%20to%20Healthwatch.html


X-Conference

The X-Conference was successfully completed and has received
support and praise from attendees and speakers. Conference
write-ups and reviews will be archived in the [Press] section of
the website.

Tapes and DVD's of all Lectures and Workshops are available at
Lost Arts Media. Audio tape sets will be available shortly

A conference photo gallery section is being put together from
donated photographs. If you have any photos you would like
included, please email or mail them to PRG (info in footer).
Please identify, when possible, the people in the photos. If,
when the gallery section goes online, you find yourself in a
photo and would prefer to either not be identified by name or
removed, please let PRG know.

The first X-Conference was developed with a strong activist
model, but not a strong business model. As a result, the
conference lost approximately $15,000. While this will cause
some short term stress for PRG, development of next year's
conference is underway simultaneous with efforts to secure
underwriting which will permit the closing of all accounts,
including cancellation refunds.

www.x-conference.com
www.lostartsmedia.com


PRG Awards

Five awards were given out at the X-Conference banquet. In due
course a new section will be created at the PRG website to house
these awards:

PRG Award for Political Courage (posthumous) - Rep. Steven Schiff
PRG Award for Courage in Journalism (posthumous) - Sarah McClendon
PRG Disclosure Award (posthumous) - Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso
PRG Hall of Fame Inductee (living) - Stanton T. Friedman
PRG Hall of Fame Inductee (posthumous) - Dr. J. Allen Hynek

Each year PRG will present these awards in an effort to
acknowledge the work that has been done around the world since
1947 in the science of extraterrestrial-related phenomena and
the politics of disclosure.


American Candidate

The timing of the selection of the AC finalists is being closely
held by Showtime. It is not clear what is happening as of this
Update. The program has borrowed from new concepts such as the
"Meetup." They are holding similar get-togethers once a month
around the country. AC Stephen Bassett will be attending a
"Meetup" at the Cosi Restaurant, 1919 M Street, Washington, DC,
at 7 pm on Monday, May 17. While it's not a real campaign, it's
a real "Meetup." Other ACs will likely be there - a chance to
talk about the politics of disclosure - and other things.

www.americancandidate.com


Mexico Defense Ministry Imaging Release

The details of this event are all over the internet and will not
be rehashed here. PRG is interested in the political
implications. Consider this hypothetical: Secretary of Defense,
Donald Rumsfeld, releases gun camera footage of very unusual
objects encountered on a military mission. He gives this footage
to an extraterrestrial phenomena researcher to show on 20/20.
Question: Do you think Secretary Rumsfeld does this without
approval from the White House? The Mexico footage was released
with the approval of President Vicente Fox and was a message to
the United States that Mexico, among other nations, is growing
impatient with the U. S. dominated disclosure time table.

It is easily one of the most media covered events of its type in
recent history. It has resulted in at least two television
commentary segments involving researcher/activists - one with
Stanton T. Friedman (MSNBC) and one with Stephen Bassett (Fox
News Channel).

www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5109891
www.ufocasebook.com/mexicanmilitaryupdate2.html
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4955164/
www.newsletters.newsweek.msnbc.com/id/4979099/


Upcoming Conferences

Ancient of Days UFOs/Abduction Conference,
July 2-5 - Roswell, NM

www.roswellufofestival.com/

MUFON International Symposium - July 16-18 - Denver
www.mufon.com/

Paraworld Expo - October 21-24 - Los Angeles
www.paraworldexpo.com/

________________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_________________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg
www.x-conference.com
Tapes/DVDs available at: www.lostartsmedia.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

               Re: Length Of Mexican UFO Sighting? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 22:33:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:47:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Length Of Mexican UFO Sighting? - Maccabee


>From: Carl Feindt <waterufo.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:07:04 -0400
>Subject: Length Of Mexican UFO Sighting?

>Hello List,

>Just a quickie as I've had to delete most of the Mexican
>sighting text. I was wondering if there was a total elapsed time
>that these items were tracked (Radar though departure) as that
>might be a limiting factor on the "Ball lightening" idea?

According to Linda Howe's web site the time between the first
and the last FLIR images is about 35 minutes.

No time has been given from the first radar contact to when the
FLIR was turned on. However the initial distance was about 37
miles (according to Linda). The plane probably traveled at about
200 mph or 3.33 miles per minute suggesting about 11 minutes to
catch up if the object wasn't moving. If it was, then the
differential speed would have been lower and the time longer.
This is something I am trying to check up on.

Hence 45 minutes total time is probably not a bad estimate. I
presume the Air Traffic Control that was monitoring the
plane would know exactly.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

                   UFOs Communicate With Flashes Of Light?

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 18:03:18 +1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:50:27 -0400
Subject: UFOs Communicate With Flashes Of Light?



Hi List members,

I have just installed details of a recent UFO 'Wave' over my
location in Australia. Here is an introduction.
In previous years while skywatching at night for signs of ufo
activity, I had on regular occasions noticed mysterious flashes
of light in the night sky. Most often appearing at very high
altitudes that I would estimate to be far beyond the Earths
atmosphere, yet sometimes appearing to be at satellite height
just above the earths atmosphere. These mysterious flashes are
very bright when you consider their distance from earth. I only
observed these types of flashes when there was known UFO activity
happening over my location. I call these flashes 'Indicator's,
for they indicate to me that UFO activity is about to begin, or
already in progress. When I see these 'indicators', I extend my
time skywatching. This has proved to be 100% accurate over the
last 8 years of skywatching, therefore has proven at least to me,
that these mystery flashes are directly associated with UFO
activity.

Once the mystery flashes are seen, the chances of seeing the low
altitude brightly illuminated "UFO Probe" type objects is
increased. This has also been the case over the last 8 years.
Once these 'Probe' UFOs are seen, then the chances of seeing
daytime UFOs is greatly increased. This has also been the case
over the years. These 'indicator signs' combined, usually
indicate that a UFO "Wave" is in progress, and this is when I
capture most of my UFO footage on video. We have just been
through a "Mini UFO Wave" on the east coast of Australia.

To read the full details of the recent events, please see:

http://theozfactor.cjb.net/may2004.htm


Regards,

Barry Taylor

UFO Researcher
Australia







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

                      Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:00:16 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:13:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Olmos


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:37:02 -0300
>Subject: Re: Mexico The Real Issue

>>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:42:00 -0500
>>Subject: Mexico The Real Issue

>>Mexico UFO The Real Issue

<snip>

>>But for us researchers here in Mexico our main interest in this
>>investigation is not the footage itself but the long awaited UFO
>>disclosure by our military institutions, something that we were
>>looking for through decades. The footage is just the vehicle.
>>There may be discussions about the incident and the images taken
>>by the C26A equipment. The evidence will continue to be analyzed
>>and debated awakening a variety of reactions.

>>For the Mexican Ufology the most important priority on this case
>>is the fact that the doors to establish an open relationship
>>with our armed forces and the official institutions have been
>>finally opened. The historic and trascendental decision that our
>>Secretary of Defense General Clemente Vega took to give this UFO
>>disclosure to the mexican people and the world is our main
>>interest with this case, to encourage this new established
>>relationship, to keep our link stronger and secure a very
>>promising future.

>>This is the real issue here.

<snip>

>As this thing in Mexico happened just in the middle of our
>campaign against UFO secrecy in Brazil (UFOs: Freedom of
>Information now), we intend to use this example fully and
>intensively to reach our own military and make them see what is
>going on. I urge that collegues in Central and South America
>countries do the same at this point.

<snip>

Approach to any Government aimed to the declassification of UFO
files requires lots of prudence, tact and diplomacy. It is
specially obvious that any Ministry of Defence abhors the
fanfare of publicity and the pressure of the media, therefore I
suggest contacts with Governments of Brazil and Mexico to the
purpose of opening their OVNI archives should be done with an
exquisite, well-planned strategy. Offer them reliability and
credibility, ask them that records are liberated to the public
at large, not to any organization, publication or (less yet)
individual. It is not democratic. I would advise you to suggest
the Governments to place a copy of the complete archives to any
library for general consultation. In Spain the public can
consult (and photocopy) the declassified UFO archives in the
Library of the Air Force headquarters in Madrid (free entrance).

I speak from the experience of having "convinced" the Spanish
Air Force to start in the earlies nineties the process by which
all secret UFO documentation was finally declassified. The
process took 8 years but today, the whole information is already
public domain.

On my role in this process, you can consult the following
references:

* "The Spanish Air Force UFO Files", International UFO Reporter,
January-February 1993, pp. 13-14. And Flying Saucer Review, Vol.
38, No. 2, 1993, pp. 20-21. Translation: "Les Forces A=E9riennes
Espagnoles ouvrent leurs archives", Ph=E9nom=E8na, March-April 1993,
pp. 19-21.

* "Spanish Air Force UFO Files: The Secret's End", in MUFON 1993
International UFO Symposium Proceedings" (Ufology: The Emergence
of a New Science), Walter H. Andrus, Jr. and Irena Scott
(editors), Mutual UFO Network, Inc. (Seguin,  Texas), July
 1993, pp. 127-168.  Translation: "Die UFO-Akten der spanischen
Luftwaffe. Das Ende des Geheimnisses", UFO-Kurier, June 1995,
pp. 11-31.

* "UFO Declassification in Spain (Military UFO Files Available
to the Public: A Balance)", in UFOs: Examining the Evidence,
Mike Wooten, British UFO Research Association Ltd. (Bantley,
West Yorkshire), August 1995, pp. 51-56.

* "Declassification! (Military UFO Records Released: The Spanish
Experience)", in UFO 1947-1997. Fifty Years of Flying Saucers,
Hilary Evans and Dennis Stacy (editors), John Brown Publishing
Ltd. (London), May 1997, pp. 177-184.
http://www.anomalia.org/declass.htm

*Monitoring Air Force Intelligence (Spain's 1992-1997 UFO
Declassification Process)", in MUFON 1997 International UFO
Symposium Proceedings (50th Anniversary of Ufology), Walter H.
Andrus, Jr. and Irena Scott (editors), Mutual UFO Network, Inc.
(Seguin, Texas), July 1997, pp. 139-178 .

* "UFO Declassification - The Spanish Model", European Journal
of UFO and Abduction Studies, launch volume, September 1999, pp.
30-41.

* "Identificados Los OVNIS de Canarias fueron misiles Poseidon"
(with Ricardo Campo), Revista de Aeronautica y Astronautica,
March 2001, pp. 200-207. And http://www.anomalia.org/misiles.htm


Sincerely,

Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

               Spain: Langreo Sighting Confirms Mexican UFOs?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:33:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:18:18 -0400
Subject: Spain: Langreo Sighting Confirms Mexican UFOs?


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
May 15, 2004

Source: Diario " La Nueva Espana" - 16 de Mayo de 2004
Date: May 16, 2004


Langreo - A Haven For UFOs?

Mar=EDa del Pilar Davila, a resident of the town of Llandosu,
recorded a video in April - broadcast by TVE - showing strange
objects in the sky whose characteristics are similar to the ones
seen in Mexico.

Langreo

Luisma Diaz

Last month, elements of the 501st squadron of the Mexican Air
Force detected 16 mysterious lights moving at unheard-of speeds
over the skies of that country. Military radars also detected
the presence of these strange objects in the Mexican sky.
Subsequently, members of the squadron informed their superiors
of the incident, and the Mexican government decided to transmit
the images last Tuesday in an unprecedented act by a military
body.

But in order to find strange events related to signtings of
strange flying objects it isn't necessary to go so far. On April
1st of this year, a resident of the small town of Llandosu, in
Langreo, saw something unusual in the sky. Mar=EDa del Pilar
Davila is a fan of astronomy and has always enjoyed scanning the
constellations, planets and whenever possible, won't miss an
eclipse. On April 1st, at around 9:30 pm, she went out of ther
house armed with binoculars and a camcorder. The reason for this
was an alignment of five planets -Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter
and Saturn- visible to the unaided eye, something that will not
occur again until 2036.

Maria's was startled when she took her binoculars and tried to
focus on the five planets and instead, found something
altogether different: Before her eyes were six lights that
"attracted her attention". Four of them were vertical and the
other two were horizontal, forming "a sort of inverted L". It
was then that she decided to record it on her camcorder.

"I wasn't quite sure what I was seeing. All I'm sure is that it
was something strange and for which I could not find an
explanation. The recording lasted a minute and a half "with what
tape I had left." She went inside for another cartridge and upon
coming outside again, "the lights had vanished".

It was then that she called her husband and both examined the
recording. "As I looked through the camera viewfinder, in black
and white, it all seemed very strange. But once I saw it on a
color TV set, it looked even stranger."

Aside from the "L-shaped" formation it was possible to see
"something like a series of tubes with an orange halo. After
seeing this we thought perhaps that it was the [International]
space station."

After discussing this with some friends, the matter was
forgotten until the Mexican events last week led her to
"research the matter a little out of curiosity, just to know
what it was we had seen. I have always been skeptical when it
comes to this subject." Therefore, she got in touch with experts
from Television Espanola. Following an analysis of teh video,
the producers of the Por la Manana morning show decided to air
it in a segment devoted to the Mexican sightings. On Friday,
Maria del Pilar Davila was also interviewed on the Milenio 3
program, devoted to paranormal themes and transmited by the SER
network, something that she didn't care for very much. "We've
only been living a short while in the town, which its a
wonderful place, and frankly, I wouldn't want to be known as
'the nutcase' or something like it, because we've never believed
in these stories. Now, with what has happened, I'm filled with
doubts, but I suppose there's a logical explanation for
everything."

For the time, Maria del Pilar Davila has only found out what the
object she filmed wasn't. "The TVE people have consulted with
experts in the field and we know that it was neither a
meterorological phenomenon nor the International Space Station
as we first believed." The recording shall be returned to them
on Monday, but as regards the ultimate explanation, "I'm not
sure if we'll know them someday."



Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

                 Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 04:47:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:21:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:25:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 21:15:03 -0700
>>Subject: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions

>>I recently wrote to Charles Smith asking:

>>Dear Mr. Smith:

>>Regarding your 13MAY04 article on the Mexican 'ufo' sightings.
>>I was completely unaware of panels (or whatever) that render an
>>aircraft completely invisible in broad daylight. I would like to
>>earn more about this having studied physics in college years
>>back.

>>Any info on the invisibility technology would be highly appreciated.

>-----

>>Charles Smith wrote back:

>-----

>>See the PBS Nova series - Diguises of War - it has an
>>excellent segment on project Yahootie and isoluminescence - the
>>idea is to mask aircraft using lights that match the light level
>>of the background. The British Army demonstrated that even
>>objects on the ground could be hidden. The last stealth
>>aircraft (the Boeing Predator) was equipped with an early
>>version of this kind of daylight stealth technology.  [-CS]

>Does he have any evidence that there are many of such craft
>operational and likely to be flying over th Yucatan Peninsula
>for any reason whatsover?

Hi Bruce:

Personally, I kinda doubt it. "Yahootie" is actually Yehudi,
something he should know if he read up on the matter. Possibly
he spelled that phonetically having listened to the same PBS
program that he recommends.

His piece appeared on a website with a very thick political
slant. There is a way to click in and submit questions to their
authors, that's how I reached him.

I can dredge up the URL if you like. Its not handy just now, but
probably appears on prior postings to this list.


Best

- Larry









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 17

              Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:05:34 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:24:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:38:46 -0400
>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:02:14 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

<snip>

I am afraid that what needs to be reviewed is the transcription
from the full, unedited video, or any technical note or report
produced by the Mexican Air Force, if it exists.

What it is being translated (and taken for granted as an
accurate picture of the event) is merely a personal
interpretation of the events, not an official report, which per
se already colours the case. Please be cautious with what you
deduce or infer from this text.


V-J







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                       It Just Remains We Hope We Can

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:37:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:49:33 -0400
Subject: It Just Remains We Hope We Can


It Just Remains We _Hope_ We Can.


Everything is UFO's from caps on down to shoes. It's written
into histories we didn't hide or lose. It's tied to an
environment that evolves beyond the few, to a brand new kind of
living that is right for me, if not for you. It's wrapped up in
psychology - philosophy, etiology. It redefines these liberally,
makes them strange and other worldly. It turns your world inside
out, and makes new rules that you can't flout. Floating in your
airy castle, crashing down is _such_ a hassle, but you built
stuff in the air advised by demons selling there.

You must give _up_ your pride, I've found, that you should wear
creation's crown. You are _not_ the dead lock nut. You'll stake
no claim beyond the rut of that which you will not admit -
 denial, and you're filled with it. Around you monstrous rocks
profound are coasting in a dance, they've found, that threatens
us  right here on Earth with mayhem like a god's foul curse!
Still, threatened like some brainless chickens, we cluck and
scratch and fake admissions that we have lit the torch of
'light', and strive for 'God', and 'Truth', and 'Right'.
Nothing's further from the truth, we stand unmasked, too proud -
 aloof. Too proud by far - our small advancement loses it's
attached enhancement as we find we're mewling infants wallowing
in filth - contented.

Edit all your moldy tomes for evidence you keep alone. Write
your works of snide derision; accuse the rest of imprecision.
Pepper speech with fallacies that prove your thoughts have
callused knees.  Dredge up 'facts' all out of context; cite them
like you have no pretext; hide behind a noxious nym like "Love
lies Squealing", or "anonym." Spew the proof you have no stones;
that you're a pest and not alone. A cyber bug that sucks the
blood of spirit you have lost for good. Write your message,
spread the lie that we see nothing in our sky. Laugh at a
conspiracy; pretend that _you're_ not on your knees; deny the
scales affixed to eyes to push away some fear you hide!

Fix your eyes on starry skies, and watch a starscape
uncontrived. Time is what you witness there - time _enough_ and
more to spare. Moons and planets, gassy clouds, cosmic dust --
 there is no doubt! Beings from space look back towards you, and
wonder that 'you're' there - it's true! Energy exists in time,
the frequency we see - sublime. Power's found at zero points? We
light our farts! We're out of joint! Busy with our ethnic
cleansing, we strut and preen in strife unending, holding out
for just a few what blessings grace elitist's views.

In our histories it's been written, we turn our eyes away -
 we're smitten. Too much truth there slaps our faces filling
holes and gaps or spaces. What we cannot cop to yet, and where
our bloated hubris rests, are questions on our lofty status,
what we now accept free gratis. Banking on old Aristotle
(forgetting as a footnote, Plato) we're buried in our crystal
spheres containing what we choose to fear. Wrapped in
'blessings' of a church that hates the world as devil cursed, we
pillage, rape and pour abuse on that which _nurtures_! It's _so_
abstruse!

UFO's are everything! From ancient times they wail and sing.
Through the years they've shown themselves, we've pictures, film
we stack on shelves. Anecdotes abound in waves, from Presidents
without disgrace, to airline captains coming clean -- these
_craft_ are NOT a stupid dream!  I, myself, have had some
sightings. They're not balloons, and gas or lightning!  UFO's
are everywhere; they wash your clothes; they set your hair!
They've watched us through such trying times, they've likely got
our history, Clyde!

And there's the rub - explains all reticence. This is why we
hide the evidence! We're afraid we'd be found out - that _all_
would _know_ what we're about!

...And are we good, have we shown grace?   Have we made Earth a
better place?  Have we proposed a centered stake, or given
suckers even breaks? Live and let live is our creed, and we
insure our basic needs?  Government's an honest friend and faith
is pure -without pretense?  Without sin and cleanly brave we've
honored contracts we have made, and traveled ethic's higher road
in letter, spirit, fact, and mode?  No we haven't; that's the
truth.  We wallow in a crass untruth!  Without some forward
looking plan (?) it just remains we _hope_ we can.

 .,=B8=B8,.=BB=A7=AB,=B8=B8,.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.,=B8=B8,.=BB=A7=AB*=A5*=
 =BB=A7=AB,=B8=B8,.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.,=B8=B8,.=BB=A7=AB=B7.,=B8=B8,.

Everybody has questions to answer. The more you manipulate and
control the more questions you should have to answer. The more
you hold yourself up as an example to the world of compassion,
intelligence and decency the more examination you should you
should be able to sustain. Our culture abuses its societal
privileges. In the interests of a "National Security" or a
"return to traditional values" there hides an impetus so rich
with arbitrariness, unfairness, and unethical practice that it
can scarcely be believed. The drive is to maintain a status quo
so ridiculously canted that it is beyond the limits of rational
sensibility. We're so dirty now that the mere admission of these
derelictions and travesties explode the status quo like a penny
balloon.

Bad news has a quality; however, it seldom gets better with age.

Folks from space, watching and perhaps recording our ancient
four million year old advance from the African Savanna would
have quite a tale to tell -- told as it was from an unjaundiced
 "Alien View." I'd sure like to hear that story, wouldn't you?
Heh! All the news that fits. All the news.  Though heaven falls.

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                      UFO & Possible Abduction Report 1

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 05:44:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:51:06 -0400
Subject: UFO & Possible Abduction Report 1


Source: Profindpages.com

http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/17/MN111.htm

UFO and Possible Abduction Report 1

W.W.-USA (1967)

I was in a rock band in Lake Charles Louisiana at the time, the
lead singer. We had played a gig in Dallas for two nights. We
had two cars, and a truck for equipment. On the night of my
'sighting', we had all started out from Dallas at the same time.
I was passenger in a car driven by the rhythm guitarist, Ron.
Just after getting onto the freeway out of town we were stopped
by the police, who took us into the station while they verified
the ownership of the car (with Louisiana plates) We were at the
station about half an hour. We left and got back to where we had
lost the rest of the band in about 15 minutes-so we were, at
most, 45 minutes behind them. (Which is why I suspect that this
event I will describe, may be a 'screen event').

We were about an hour, maybe two, out of Dallas heading south to
Houston. It was a dark night. We were traveling on a two lane
desert highway. There were only occasional cars passing the
other way. Suddenly, we saw a bunch of cars parked along the
highway ahead. We thought there must have been an accident, so
Ron slowed down as we reached the cars. There were people
standing on both sides of the road. We pulled off onto the dirt
shoulder and I leaned out of the window and asked a guy next to
a pickup truck what had happened. He simply nodded his head
upward and said, "Well look." Ron turned off the engine and we
both got out. I looked up, and what everyone was watching was
immediately apparent; there were three very bright stars at
equal distance from one another, in a trangle going in a slow
circle around a common center. I asked the guy next to me, in a
low voice (everyone was watching silently or just low murmurs
from time to time), "How long have you been watching this?" He
said he had been there about twenty minutes, but some people had
been there for more than an hour. It was hard to take my eyes
off of the objects in the sky, but I looked around to see what
seemed to be at least 30 people, maybe more. Probably 15 to 20
cars.

I looked up again and a smaller light suddenly emerged from one
of the larger ones. I said, "Woh", and there was a muffled
murmur from the crowd. The guy next to me said that there were a
lot of those things. The little light traveled all the way to
the horizon at an incredible speed, maybe 4 or 5 seconds to my
right and over our heads. Shortly one came from the other
direction and merged with one of the larger lights. Then another
and another. They would come and go like that for another 15
minutes or so. Then suddenly they came from every direction of
the horizon to the three large lights. People were starting to
talk and get excited at this point. All of a sudden the three
main lights merged into one really bright light (Venus bright!)
and then it just shot up and away in the blink of an eye. The
crowd cheered like at a ball game. It was absolutely
exhilarating!

People continued to mill about and talk, but Ron and I had to
get to Houston, so we got in the car and drove off. We jabbered
excitedly for quite awhile, then fell into our own thoughts.
When we finally got to the hotel in Dallas the rest of the guys
in the band were still up. They were freaking out. "What
happened to you guys?" They were really agitated. "We thought
you guys were in an accident!" We said that we had seen flying
saucers. They thought we were kidding at first. Then we told
them what we had seen, and that we'd also gotten taken to the
Dallas police station. Finally the drummer said, "OK you were
parked watching flying saucers, about half and hour or so, you
were about half an hour late getting out of town." Ron and I
were nodding, yes. "But its almost 5 in the morning".

ABOUT 30 YEARS LATE W.W. HAD A DREAM=85..

Ron and I are traveling along the Texas desert highway, just
like in 1967. We had been listening to 'talk radio' for a long
time, we were tired. I was thinking, 'It is weird, how English
sounds like some foreign language, when you just listen to the
sound of it-not the words'. (Which I now remember is exactly
what I was thinking and about to say out loud when we saw the
cars ahead) Dream Again; We see the cars, and pull over, there
is a guy standing there next to a pickup truck, wearing a plaid
lumberjack shirt. I lean out the window and ask what has
happened. The guy turns to me, and his face is this weird alien
thing with tendrils wriggling all around like a beard of worms
or snakes under big insect like eyes. I screamed and woke up,
home in bed in San Diego.

The event in Texas so long ago was exciting. The dream years
later was chilling. I cannot forget either.

____________________________________________________

UFO Sighting Report 2


J.C. NY (1988)

My experience with UFOs really goes back to 1988 when I was in
Egypt on vacation. Being an amateur archeologist and Christian,
I have been interested in sites around the world especially
Egypt, Mexico and China. Egypt had the most profound effect on
me because of the artifacts that remain in the Cairo Museum, the
plane models, helicopters and other flying machine models. The
archeologist I hired worked on digs in Egypt for over 20 years,
El Shamy. He showed me things that were not on the local tour
guide for sure.

But if anyone wants to document alien activity just travel to
St. Catherine's Monastery in Sinai via car from Cairo. My God I
saw things that are just unbelievable, too much to even document
in a short note. I spent a night on the top of Mt. Sinai and I
never saw so many weird lights, triangles and other strange
craft in the air. It is not for the faint of heart. I asked the
Arabs about it and they said they were there all the time, just
airport lights. But it is not just the nightly ufo activity but
the artifacts laying around as well as the strange geology. I
can only say it has to be experienced.

A few years ago also I was looking out of my Riverside Apt.
about 12:30am when this glowing orb about 20 feet in diameter
went past my window. Now I had had a couple of drinks but it was
being chased by two black helicopters. I thought I was a bit
crazy but the next day the coast guard was out under the GWB,
looking for something. There was also a police report put out
and published in the Daily News about an airplane that was on
fire and crashed into the Hudson. A police dispatcher that we
know took the report, and it was recorded on Radar by the Air
traffic controllers. A cover story was put out that a DNR plane
was out counting ducks? Very weird to be out that late at night.

_____________________________________________________


Abduction Report 3

J.H. (1991)

I have made contact with the 'greys' this was in 1991,a long
time ago, it seems that extracting dna from people is their
job!. I also believe that they are creating new bodies for maybe
us and or other people elsewhere to be able to live and function
on possibly another planet. From my experience I also believe
that they have their emotions under strict control, so people
who say that they have no emotions could be wrong as I received
an emotional mind to mind contact at a later time.

_____________________________________________________


Abduction Report 4

A.B. NY (1946)

I was abducted from New York Boyscout camp in 1946 when 12 years
old. Had 9 hours of missing time. Ended up back in the cabin in
bed the next morning. No one knew where I was, and I had no idea
how I got back in bed after being in the forest playing the game
"Flag" with the rest of the cabin team. Had after effects for
many years; dizziness, spinning when lying down, lights racing
away at tremendous speed. I have 8 scoop marks on my left inside
shin and a triangle on my left side under my ribs. I suppose
this is typical?

____________________________________________________

A number of the letters we have received have requested
help/advice following an abduction. Perhaps some of our readers
may know of an organization that offers free help to abductees
in the area of advice or hypnosis?

____________________________________________________

Only continued research can uncover these mysteries more and we
would love to hear from anyone who has experienced an abduction
or has made contact with what they believe to be an alien.
Please email your experience to the address below:

Aliens.nul










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                    Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:36:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:52:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico The Real Issue - Stanford


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:37:02 -0300
>Subject: Re: Mexico The Real Issue

>>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:42:00 -0500
>>Subject: Mexico The Real Issue

>>Mexico UFO The Real Issue

<snip>

>>But for us researchers here in Mexico our main interest in this
>>investigation is not the footage itself but the long awaited UFO
>>disclosure by our military institutions, something that we were
>>looking for through decades. The footage is just the vehicle.
>>There may be discussions about the incident and the images taken
>>by the C26A equipment. The evidence will continue to be analyzed
>>and debated awakening a variety of reactions.

>>For the Mexican Ufology the most important priority on this case
>>is the fact that the doors to establish an open relationship
>>with our armed forces and the official institutions have been
>>finally opened. The historic and trascendental decision that our
>>Secretary of Defense General Clemente Vega took to give this UFO
>>disclosure to the mexican people and the world is our main
>>interest with this case, to encourage this new established
>>relationship, to keep our link stronger and secure a very
>>promising future.

>>This is the real issue here.

<snip>

>As this thing in Mexico happened just in the middle of our
>campaign against UFO secrecy in Brazil (UFOs: Freedom of
>Information now), we intend to use this example fully and
>intensively to reach our own military and make them see what is
>going on. I urge that collegues in Central and South America
>countries do the same at this point.

<snip>

Approach to any Government aimed to the declassification of UFO
files requires lots of prudence, tact and diplomacy. It is
specially obvious that any Ministry of Defence abhors the
fanfare of publicity and the pressure of the media, therefore I
suggest contacts with Governments of Brazil and Mexico to the
purpose of opening their OVNI archives should be done with an
exquisite, well-planned strategy. Offer them reliability and
credibility, ask them that records are liberated to the public
at large, not to any organization, publication or (less yet)
individual. It is not democratic. I would advise you to suggest
the Governments to place a copy of the complete archives to any
library for general consultation.


Vicente-Juan,

Thanks. That's excellent and wise advice, indeed.  And it could
save a government (or its representatives) embarrassment from
having handed records to a person or an organization with a
preconceived axe to grind into a preferred, agenda-oriented
'shape'.


Ray Stanford








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                 Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:53:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:54:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:25:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 21:15:03 -0700
>>Subject: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions

>>I recently wrote to Charles Smith asking:

>>Dear Mr. Smith:

>>Regarding your 13MAY04 article on the Mexican 'ufo' sightings. I
>>was completely unaware of panels (or whatever) that render an
>>aircraft completely invisible in broad daylight. I would like to
>>earn more about this having studied physics in college years
>>back.

>>Any info on the invisibility technology would be highly
>>appreciated.

>-----

>>Charles Smith wrote back:

>-----

>>See the PBS Nova series - Diguises of War - it has an excellent
>>segment on project Yahootie and isoluminescence - the idea is to
>>mask aircraft using lights that match the light level of the
>>background. The British Army demonstrated that even objects on
>>the ground could be hidden. The last stealth aircraft (the
>>Boeing Predator) was equipped with an early version of this kind
>>of daylight stealth technology.   [-CS]

>Does he have any evidence that there are many of such craft
>operational and likely to be flying over th Yucatan Peninsula
>for any reason whatsover?

For what its worth, I have been aware of this technology for
over 15 years.

I first heard about it from, of all people, John Lear.

Considering the source, and the way it was described to me ("TV
cameras on the top of the plane and TV monitors covering the
bottom"), I regarded it with some suspicion, until the
technology was confirmed to me by a Rockwell engineer who had
worked on Senior Trend.

I have no idea what stage of development the technology was in
when I heard about it, but if we apply a generous development
curve of about 10 years from drawing board to fully operational,
it is conceivable that such planes are being deployed as we
speak in hotspots worldwide.

==JJS==








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                    Student Uncovers US Military Secrets

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:05:05 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:58:05 -0400
Subject: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets


Hi Everyone!

I hope that as a result of this article (see below), future
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests are not reformated
versions rather than actual reproductions of documents where
only confidential or sensitive words are simply blacked out as
they are now.

Reformating FOIA documents will not only increase the costs and
take more time to process FOIA requests but the contents of
these documents could be subject to manipulation or alteration
with the intent to mislead rather than inform the public about
matters which concern us all such as UFOs.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/13/student_unlocks_military_secrets/


Nick Balaskas








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                  Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:10:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:59:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Stanford


>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:51:01 +0200
>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: Ufo UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:23:23 -0700
>>Subject: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>Pardon my ignorance, but is there any precedent for this case?
>>Has there been an instance where UFOs have shown up on infrared
>>AND radar before? Could this indicate a sea change in the
>>phenomena? Or perhaps something we've been missing for lo these
>>60 years?

>I also know of no case involving both radar and IR readings.

>There are reports of intense heat accompanying UFO observations.

>During a UFO sighting on August 19, 1961, in La Boule, France,
>the local weather station detected a heat increase resembling
>1.38 mV.

>During the great heat wave in summer, readings showed an
>increase of only 0.4 mV. (H. Ragaz 1961: Weltrundschau, in: Der
>Weltraumbote, Nr. 68/69, p.15.)

>Intense IR waves "burned out" the wrist watch of a UFO witness
>on June 19, 1969, between King's Lynn and Docking, England.
>During the UFO sighting, the fluorescence cyphers of the
>witness' watch lit up. After the sighting the cyphers would
>never light up again. The car's motor hat stalled. When the
>witness left the car, he felt as being in a strong electrostatic
>field. His hair stood up. 30 to 50 meters above him hovered an
>orange glowing "inversed mushroom", as large as a house. (G.I.R.
>Lore 1969: Strange Efects of UFOs, Washington: NICAP.)

Thanks for sharing that interesting and possibly scientifically
significant case.

A problem evoked by that report is, however:  Assuming the case
is a valid one, we cannot be sure whether it was actually
infrared (IR), per se, that caused the numbers on the watch to
light up and never be able to glow again. After all, we are told
that the car's motor stalled (I suspect that would be caused by
other wavelengths and not by IR) and that an electrostatic
effect seemed to be sensed, with, reportedly, hair standing up
(if the latter 'effect' was literal and not just an emotion-
induced feeling).

One might conjecture that any IR effect strong enough to ruin
the watch's numbers would have had some very strong effect on
local organisms, including some terribly strong heating effects
upon the witness.  Were such reported?

In short, if the thing about the watch is correct, one might
consider the possibility that some wavelength(s) other than IR
could have been involved, especially if  the observer did not
report a very strong heat.

If anyone of you can provide me with a more complete report of
that case or offer to sell me a copy of NICAP's Strange Effects
of UFOs, NICAP, Washington, D.C., 1969, containing it, I would
be very appreciative.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                     Re: UFOs Over Iran 2004 - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:52:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:02:47 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Over Iran 2004 - Maccabee


>From: Mo Elnadi <mnadi.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:51:44 -0400
>Subject: UFOs Over Iran 2004


>Dear Listers,

>Check this story about one of the recent UFO sightings in Iran,
>with a new video clip from original 20 minutes footage.

>http://www.ancientx.com/nm/anmviewer.asp?a=57&z=1

The images shown are completely defocused large images of a
light in the dark sky. No way of knowing what the light was
without explicit statement of direction, time, etc.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                    2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:24:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:35:55 -0400
Subject: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews


These are transcript excerpts from the interviews with three
crew members directly involved in the Mexican Air Force C26A
plane incident on March 5, 2004 - conducted by researcher Jaime
Maussan as part of the investigation in April 2004.

The crew members are Major Magdaleno Castanon - flight commander
& pilot of the aircraft. Lt. German Ramirez Marin - Radar
Operator, and Lt. Mario Adrian Velasquez Telles - FLIR Operator.

---

Interview with Major Magdaleno Castanon - Pilot.

Question: Major, did you feel worried at any time when you
realized you were surrounded by these unknown lights?

Answer: According to the information I heard from the operations
co-ordinator chief - he was in charge of the visual operation on
the screens - he mentioned that the objects were in the back, on
the left side and in front of us. It was at that moment that I
began to feel stressed.

Question: But despite that information, none of you could see
the objects?

Answer: We never saw them. We couldn't make visual contact with
them.

Question: Then, only through the FLIR was it possible to detect
the presence of these objects?

Answer: Yes, only with the FLIR system... the infrared camera.

Question: Would you say that the objects were invisible to
normal sight?

Answer: I would say so because none of the crew could see them
with simple eyesight.

Question: At that distance, where the objects were from you,
wouldn't you have been able to see them?

Answer: The closest distance that we had from the objects was 2
miles. Our experience tells us that we can identify conventional
aircraft at that distance, so that's the doubt that operation
left on us.

Question: When you decided to turn off all your airplane lights,
you made that decision to avoid any posible conflict with these
strange objects?

Answer: I did that perhaps following an instinct, thinking that
maybe it could help in some way. As flight commander, I felt I
had to take some kind of meassure because the signal I received
was that we were being followed and by turning our light off, I
was expecting a similar reaction from them. It was an instinct.

Question: At the beginning of the incident, was it possible
these objects became aware that you were following them?

Answer: It's just a guess, but perhaps there was a connection,
in that sense, because it is very strange that we first pursued
them, but when we cancelled that and made a completely opposite
turn te objects then also turned - but in OUR direction and
began following us. I think it could be posible that in some way
these objects were aware that we had been following and
observing them.

Question: What is your conclusion on this experience Major?

Answer: What I can say as commander of a plane on a mission, is
that this incident serves as a new precedent of future
operations yet to come in our military division.

As a commander, I accomplished my duty in performing a safe
operation and maintaining the safety of the personal and the
equipment. If a similar incident were to take place in the
future and something tragic happens, the fault won't be that of
the commander due to a loss of skill or negligence.

Question: Are you concerned that these objects cannot be seen.

Answer: I'm concerned because if a tragic incident happens, I
would not have any evidence that could be used as legal defense
in a court of law during any resulting trial.

---

Interview with Lieutenant German Ramirez Marin. (non-FLIR) radar
operator.

Question: When was the first time you became aware of the
objects.

Answer: When we made a turn to route ourselves to Campeche, the
FLIR infrared camera operator detected a target without a shape,
just a shine. The target continued being observed with the FLIR.
Then we detected other targets at the left side of the plane.
They were eleven targets. We never had visual contact with them.

Question: The eleven targets appeared on the normal (non-
infrared) radar?

Answer. No. The eleven targets were not detected on the radar
screen. Initially, only one target was detected by the radar.
Then another target appeared at one o'clock, that's how we
describe the position that is in front but slightly to our
right. And then a third one in back of the plane. Those were the
only three targets that appeared in the radar screen during the
incident. The other ones that were at nine 'o clock, on our left
side never appeared on the radar.

Question: There was a time when these objects surrounded you.

Answer: Yes, we can assume that because we had information of a
target in the front, another one slightly to the right, one in
the back, and according to the FLIR several others on our left
side. So, we assumed that we were surrounded.

Question: Did you feel fear?

Answer: Fear...? Yes, personally, there was some fear because
we were confronting a situation that had never happened to us
before.

Question: The objects movements on the radar were out of the
ordinary?

Answer: Certainly. Our data information - most of all, the icons
(blips), the clusters - were always there on the screen, but the
information on their movements was constantly changing. Their
speed changes were sudden, 60 -120- 300 knots, according to the
radar information.

The same happened with their flight paths. The courses showed 90
degrees at first then, suddenly, 130 degrees on the radar
screen.

Question: What does that mean?

Answer: It means that the target changed direction constantly
at great speed. There is no aircraft that can perform such
direction changes so quickly.

---

Interview with Lieutenant Mario Adrian Velazquez Tellez. FLIR
operator.

Question: Is it posible that the FLIR gave false information?

Answer: It is not posible. This was visual information of a
target that had both heat and movement, so it would not make
reference to something that was not there.

Question: Does the FLIR register hot air?

Answer: No. FLIR doesn't register hot air, it registers an
object that generates heat.

Question: Then the eleven objects that were detected by the FLIR
were generating heat. Were these objects there even though you
couldn't see them with your eyes?

Answer: They were there, and we have the data references by
their positions. They were on our left side, at the same
laltitude and the same speed.

Question: How much heat were the objects generating?

Answer. We ran several measurements trying to get an image and
all the time the targets registered very hot. We never found any
irregular shape, they were spherical all the time.

Question: Is this type of shape irregular with respect to other
aircraft you have detected before?

Answer: Yes, it was an irregular shape. I know of nothing like
the aircraft I saw.

Question: In your experience do you have any previous personal
knowledge of any similar incident like this?

Answer: I have never experienced anything like this and I don't
know what to tell you. I don't have any explanation for what
these objects were.

Question: You had detection with both radar and FLIR?

Answer. Correct. The radar gave us positions and then with the
FLIR we searched that area. We located the targets and we kept
those targets on screen while the radar was detecting other
targets, giving us more positions. We tried to keep all the
targets on screen all the time, so as not to lose them.

Question: How did the objects surround the airplane?

Answer: The radar had objects on the front, slighlty to the
right and on the back. The FLIR had several objects on the left
so we could say that we were surrounded.

Question: Were the objects big in size?

Answer: They were big, especially two of them that were closer
to us.

Question: Could FLIR have created this - is it posible to
manipulate the FLIR information?

Answer: No. It is not posible to load information into the FLIR.
All the information the FLIR detects is out there and is really
happening. And the FLIR records this information in real time.

===








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:31:17 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:39:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Balaskas


>From: Terry Blanton <blantont.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 13:58:06 -0400
>Subject: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered

>(ebk, I think some of the Listers knew Mr. Mallove)

>This message appeared on the Vortex List today:

>-----

>Subject:  Dreadful news
>From:  Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell.nul>
>Date:  Sat, 15 May 2004 12:00:38 -0400
>To:  vortex-L.nul

>I have dreadful news. It is difficult to report a thing like
>this by e-mail, but I suppose I should.

>I deeply regret to announce that Eugene Mallove is dead.
>Apparently, he was murdered yesterday. I have few details, but
>he was killed in a dispute over rental property.

>His parents owned a house in Connecticut. They are now living
>an nursing home, and he rented out the house. The tenants
>apparently made a terrible mess, and he evicted them. He went to
>the house a few days ago to clean up the mess. Someone killed
>him, took the car, and left it around five miles away.

>I have no information about funeral arrangements. I will post
>another message when I hear something.

>-----

>Mr. Mallove was the publisher of Infinite Energy magazine and
>webmaster of:

>http://www.infinite-energy.com/

>The unfortunate news comes on the heels of a recent announcement
>that the DOE is going to establish a panel to re-review cold
>fusion research.  See the above web page for details.


This is dreadful news indeed!

I have many back issues of Eugene Mallove's 'Infinite Energy'
magazine which I make available (along with many other journals
of science and engineering, including UFOs) to students and
visitors in our physics labs waiting room next door where I
work.

This weekend I read in 'Popular Science' (June 2004, page 53)
about another cold fusion experiment, this one by physicist Rusi
Taleyarkhan and colleagues, that has created much excitement in
the scientific community. Such a potentially important discovery
as Taleyarkhan's would not only solve our energy needs but help
bring about world peace and change the world for the better.

Let us hope that past and ongoing incredible results by cold
fusion researchers and advocates as Eugene Mallove will not
discourage the Department of Energy from going ahead with its
plans to establish a panel to re-examine cold fusion findings.


Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

              Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:38:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:41:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:05:34 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

<snip>

>I am afraid that what needs to be reviewed is the transcription
>from the full, unedited video, or any technical note or report
>produced by the Mexican Air Force, if it exists.

>What it is being translated (and taken for granted as an
>accurate picture of the event) is merely a personal
>interpretation of the events, not an official report, which per
>se already colours the case. Please be cautious with what you
>deduce or infer from this text.

Hello VJ, All,

This is a _nasty_ accusation that you make about Jaime Maussan's
report. If Jaime has been inaccurate or 'creative' in his report
of this incident, the onus is on _you_ to publish your evidence
for it right along-side of your (demeaning and insulting)
accusation.

You have to be ready to back-up accusations (such as the one you
have levelled at Maussan about his report) with something
'harder' than just your opinion.

"Opinions are like sphincters, we all have one and they all
stink!"  <g>

Hard evidence for your accusations please? Otherwise publish a
speedy retraction and an apology to Jaime. There's just too much
real work that needs doing right away to get caught up in this
kind of time-wasting 'personality' BS.

Please, VJ, see if you can find a more 'constructive' way to
make yourself useful. Personally, I don't plan on 'debating'
anybody about anything. Any one who attempts to engage me in
debate over matters of opinion should not expect an on, or off-
list, response from me. I don't wish to draw energy and
attention away from what may prove to be an important event. Nor
do I have the time or inclination to enter into empty, pointless
debate.


John Velez









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                          Marsapalooza Tour Begins

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:27:30 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:42:46 -0400
Subject: Marsapalooza Tour Begins


I'll be doing a signing for "After the Martian Apocalypse" in
Kansas City on Sat., July 10.

For more information:

http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#108481
426041799473

http://www.mactonnies.com/atma.html


Mac







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

               Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:01:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:27:52 -0400
Subject: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II


Source: http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm

Hi Bruce, All,

Here is part II of the Maussan report translation.

Continued from Part I

J=D3VENES=8A NO ESTAMOS SOLOS=8A"

"Young people... WE ARE NOT ALONE..."

Durante al menos 30 minutos, los oficiales de la Fuerza Aerea
Mexicana siguieron a las extranas luces; sin embargo, el propio
seguimiento ten=EDa deparadas sorpresas a la tripulacion del avion
militar, pues conforme avanzaban hacia su objetivo, la pantalla
del radar y la camara "FLIR", comenzaron a detectar mas ecos
desconocidos que se iban sumando a los que ya se ten=EDan
registrados. Sumando un total de 11 objetos que de acuerdo a lo
que se observa en la pantalla, la conformacion de los mismos
seria esferica.

For at least thirty minutes the officers of the Mexican Air
Force followed the strange lights, their monitoring bringing
many surprises to the crew of the military airplane.

In agreement as to action, and as they flew toward their target,
the radar screen and the FLIR began to detect more unknown
echoes in addition to those that had already registered.

Adding up to a total of 11 objects that, according to what was
observed on the screen, confirmed the same serious *esferica.

[*Sorry, I can't find the word 'esferica' in my Spanish
dictionary. I do not know what it means. Can any of the Latino
List members help me out here? --JV]

Digno de comentar, es el hecho que de esta flotilla, sobresale la
presencia de un objeto de enormes proporciones que habr=EDa de
manifestarse durante el transcurso de la mision, esto, ante la
mirada atonita de los testigos; y que de acuerdo al testimonio
del piloto de al aeronave, podr=EDa haber tenido el tamano de un
edificio de 15 pisos, basandose en la lectura de la camara "FLIR".
Posteriormente los aparatos establecieron que aparentemente
los objetos rodeaban al avion.

Worthy of comment, is the fact that with this flotilla, was the
presence of an object of enormous proportions that made an
appearance during the course of the mission, this, before the
amazed looks of the witnesses; and in accordance with the
testimony of the pilot of the airplane, would have had to be the
size of a fifteen story building. This estimate being based on
the readings from the "FLIR". Subsequently the equipment helped
to establish the fact that the objects at one point _surrounded_
the airplane.

Vale la pena recordar que todo el personal militar para este tipo
de misiones, es gente altamente capacitada, pues opera en un
punto muy sensible de la seguridad nacional; teniendo en cuenta
esto, resulta sorprendente escuchar, tal como lo registro el audio
de la mision, como las expresiones de los tripulantes iban de la
emocion al sobresalto. As=ED, cuando escuchamos la conversacion
entre ellos, o=EDmos expresiones tales como "Jovenes, hoy es su d=EDa
de suerte." De todas, la que consideramos como el momento mas
memorable de la grabacion es cuando escuchamos: "JOVENESO
NO ESTAMOS SOLOSS"

It is worth while recalling that all the military personnel
chosen for this type of mission, are always the most highly
qualified as the operations deal with very sensitive aspects of
national security. Bearing this fact in mind, it is surprising
to listen to, as the audio record of the mission recorded it,
how emotional the comments of the crew members became. Thus,
when listening to the conversation, we hear expressions such as
"Young people what a lucky day!" Of all the comments made, the
most memorable, in the entire recording, is when we hear one of
them exclaim: "Young people we are not alone"

"Por que nos estan siguiendo?"

"Why are they following us?"

Despues de los primeros minutos de la operacion, el avion de la
Fuerza Aerea Mexicana, no pudo continuar el seguimiento a los
Objetos Voladores No Identificados ya que el combustible
comenzaba a agotarse, obligando con ello a terminar la mision.
Grande seria la sorpresa del grupo de militares cuando se
percataron con sus instrumentos que dos objetos aparentemente
comenzaron a seguirlos cuando en el audio escuchamos una voz que
dice: Por que nos estan siguiendo?..."; dando con esto mayor
misterio al evento.

After a few more minutes of flying, the Mexican Air Force plane
could not continue the monitoring and pursuit of the
unidentified flying objects because the fuel began to run out,
obliging the crew to bring the mission to an end.

It was a huge surprise to the crew men when they noticed - with
their instruments - that two of the objects apparently continued
flying with them, when in the audio we hear a crew member say:

"Why are they following us?"


End of Part II

-------------------------------------------------------------

Part III to follow shortly. I know it doesn't seem like I'm
translating much with each installment but it is very labor
intensive and time consuming work. I hope you guys are making
the best of this piece-meal translation process by enjoying it
like an old cliff-hanger serial from days of yore. ;)

Thanks for your patience. More shortly.

Note for Bruce: So far no 'number' is mentioned for the returns
on radar originally although they do use a 'plural' term when
describing the original radar targets. How many? They don't say.
Not yet anyway. Stay tuned. BTW, did you know about this 'giant'
15 story UFO they spotted? The report of the presence of this
enormous (mother-ship sized) craft was news to me. !!!

The plot thickens! ;)

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

              Re: Unpublished Interviews With Kenneth Arnold -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:27:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:54:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Unpublished Interviews With Kenneth Arnold -


>From: Dave Haith <visions.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <UFOupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:43:41 +0100
>Subject: Unpublished Interviews With Kenneth Arnold

>I have just received the following from UFO researcher Bob Pratt.

>Click the second link to read his previously unpublished and
>fascinating interviews with the legendary Kenneth Arnold.

>Cheers
>Dave Haith

> -----

>Hello

>This message is going to a number of people by blind copy to
>announce that I have added a new page to my web site:

>http://www.bobpratt.org

>The page is about Kenneth Arnold and is based on three long
>phone calls we had:

>http://www.bobpratt.org/ken.html

>Bob Pratt

- - - - - -

Hello Bob, Dave:


I finally read the phone interview with Ken Arnold, its pretty
long. This is new material. I found the sighting of 7 UFOs over
Mono Lake, CA interesting, and just cataloged that, plus the
(days earlier) sighting of a disk taking off from the same lake.
Since the 7-objects sighting was by two separate airliners on
opposite paths, that gets more credibility (a forest ranger on
the ground claims to have seen that also).

I don't see any indication that the 'ranger' was checked out by
Arnold, so his one-person sighting of a disk emerging from the
lake (days earlier) is somewhat shakier.

I think I heard of the Mono airliners case long ago, but could
never catalog it for lack of a year or date until now. One sad
detail is all the emphasis on the time of day, how the ranger
could set his clock by the two airliners passing one another at
the same time every day, ditto from the pilots etc., .. yet
_nowhere_ is that actual time-of-day given as in such-and-such
O'clock!


Thanks!

- Larry







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                    Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Rue

From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:29:37 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:54:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Rue


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:10:58 -0400
>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:51:01 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>Intense IR waves "burned out" the wrist watch of a UFO witness
>>on June 19, 1969, between King's Lynn and Docking, England.
>>During the UFO sighting, the fluorescence cyphers of the
>>witness' watch lit up. After the sighting the cyphers would
>>never light up again. The car's motor hat stalled. When the
>>witness left the car, he felt as being in a strong electrostatic
>>field. His hair stood up. 30 to 50 meters above him hovered an
>>orange glowing "inversed mushroom", as large as a house. (G.I.R.
>>Lore 1969: Strange Efects of UFOs, Washington: NICAP.)

>A problem evoked by that report is, however: Assuming the case
>is a valid one, we cannot be sure whether it was actually
>infrared (IR), per se, that caused the numbers on the watch to
>light up and never be able to glow again. After all, we are told
>that the car's motor stalled (I suspect that would be caused by
>other wavelengths and not by IR) and that an electrostatic
>effect seemed to be sensed, with, reportedly, hair standing up
>(if the latter 'effect' was literal and not just an emotion-
>induced feeling).

>One might conjecture that any IR effect strong enough to ruin
>the watch's numbers would have had some very strong effect on
>local organisms, including some terribly strong heating effects
>upon the witness. Were such reported?

>In short, if the thing about the watch is correct, one might
>consider the possibility that some wavelength(s) other than IR
>could have been involved, especially if  the observer did not
>report a very strong heat.

>If anyone of you can provide me with a more complete report of
>that case or offer to sell me a copy of NICAP's Strange Effects
>of UFOs, NICAP, Washington, D.C., 1969, containing it, I would
>be very appreciative.

I cited from the German literature (a CD-ROM edited by Illobrand
von Ludwiger, section online at:

http://www.mufon-ces.org/docs/ufoem.pdf). I don't have the NICAP
report myself but will try to get it for us. Others, however,
should also try...

Maybe we should also, when we come to speak about IR waves
supposedly emmitted by UFOs, have a look at Auguste Meessen's
(SOBEPS) work on the "Herschel effect"

http://www.photonics.com/dictionary/lookup/XQ/ASP/url.lookup/entrynum.2352/lette
r.h/pu./QX/lookup.htm

Hannes

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people
can change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever
has." (Margaret Mead, anthropologist)











   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Westra

From: Frits Westra <fw-nx.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:36:44 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:55:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Westra


On Tue, 18 May 2004 07:35:55 -0400, UFO UpDates - Toronto
<ufoupdates.nul>wrote:

>Question: The objects movements on the radar were out of the
>ordinary?

>Answer: Certainly. Our data information - most of all, the icons
>(blips), the clusters - were always there on the screen, but the
>information on their movements was constantly changing. Their
>speed changes were sudden, 60 -120- 300 knots, according to the
>radar information.

>The same happened with their flight paths. The courses showed 90
>degrees at first then, suddenly, 130 degrees on the radar
>screen.



Hello all,

Is it known whether or not (military) ground radar detected the
unknown  targets?

Regards,

Frits Westra







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                   Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Rue

From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:40:45 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:56:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Rue


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:31:17 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered

>>From: Terry Blanton <blantont.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 13:58:06 -0400
>>Subject: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered

>>I deeply regret to announce that Eugene Mallove is dead.
>>Apparently, he was murdered yesterday. I have few details, but
>>he was killed in a dispute over rental property.

>This is dreadful news indeed!

>This weekend I read in 'Popular Science' (June 2004, page 53)
>about another cold fusion experiment, this one by physicist Rusi
>Taleyarkhan and colleagues, that has created much excitement in
>the scientific community. Such a potentially important discovery
>as Taleyarkhan's would not only solve our energy needs but help
>bring about world peace and change the world for the better.

Taleyarkhan says his experiment is hot fusion and many cold
fusioneers thinks so. However, Taleyarkhan's critics say, he has
got his neutron detector's calibration wrong, which would
effectively mean, neutron and tritium yields don't match. From
gaseous phase fusion, it is expected that the neutron and the
tritium channels are equally strong represented (50-50). In cold
fusion, the neutron channel is also weaker than the tritium
channel, but both are weakend as Helium-4 is preferred as D-D
fusion product. This, off course, is totally at odds with
established nuclear physics!


Hannes (still no physicist ;)











   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

                  Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:37:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:58:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Warren


Source: Wired.com

http://www.wired.com/news/rants/0,2350,63489,00.html

05-17-04

Name: Guillermo Portales (guillportales.nul)
Subject: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

People who are not aware of the current political crisis in
Mexico will unfortunately be deceived by this staged
performance, which further embarrasses our country in the eyes
of the world ("Mexican Air Force Films UFOs," May 12, 2004). The
federal government of Mexico has outdone itself by doing the
most ridiculous PR stunt in the history of the modern world, by
attempting (unsuccessfully at least in Mexico) to distract
public attention from the terrible corruption scandals that are
plaguing the country and have finally crushed people's faith in
our government system.

All UFO researchers who have been given false hopes by this
story need to blame one man only, President Vicente Fox, in
reality instructed by his wife Marta Sahagun to perform the
wildest and most embarrassing political fiascoes of the last 100
years of Mexican history. Our whole country is sinking quickly
politically, socially and economically. Who knows what they'll
come up with next instead of focusing on fixing our real
problems.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 18

             Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:12:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:02:35 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Maccabee


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:24:02 -0500
>Subject: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews


>These are transcript excerpts from the interviews with three
>crew members directly involved in the Mexican Air Force C26A
>plane incident on March 5, 2004 - conducted by researcher Jaime
>Maussan as part of the investigation in April 2004.

>The crew members are Major Magdaleno Castanon - flight commander
>& pilot of the aircraft. Lt. German Ramirez Marin - Radar
>Operator, and Lt. Mario Adrian Velasquez Telles - FLIR Operator.

---

>Interview with Major Magdaleno Castanon - Pilot.

>Question: Major, did you feel worried at any time when you
>realized you were surrounded by these unknown lights?

>Answer: According to the information I heard from the operations
>co-ordinator chief - he was in charge of the visual operation on
>he screens - he mentioned that the objects were in the back, on
>the left side and in front of us. It was at that moment that I
>began to feel stressed.

NOTE: from information below, there were 3 radar targets, one in
front, one to th right of in front and one behind. There were
also several IR images, all on the left side.

<snip>

>Question: Would you say that the objects were invisible to
>normal sight?

>Answer: I would say so because none of the crew could see them
>with simple eyesight.

>Question: At that distance, where the objects were from you,
>wouldn't you have been able to see them?

>Answer: The closest distance that we had from the objects was 2
>miles. Our experience tells us that we can identify conventional
>aircraft at that distance, so that's the doubt that operation
>left on us.

<snip>

>Question: At the beginning of the incident, was it possible
>these objects became aware that you were following them?

>Answer: It's just a guess, but perhaps there was a connection,
>in that sense, because it is very strange that we first pursued
>them, but when we cancelled that and made a completely opposite
>turn te objects then also turned - but in OUR direction and
>began following us. I think it could be posible that in some way
>these objects were aware that we had been following and
>observing them.

NOTE: the above comment about making a "completely opposite
turn" suggests that the plane was initially flying westward as
it headed toward the first object it detect (initial detection
at 37 miles, approach to about 2 miles, then the object "took
off"). After the turn, and during the time of FLIR imagery, the
plane was flying almost due east.


<snip>

---

>Interview with Lieutenant German Ramirez Marin. (non-FLIR) radar
>operator.

>Question: When was the first time you became aware of the
>objects.

>Answer: When we made a turn to route ourselves to Campeche, the
>FLIR infrared camera operator detected a target without a shape,
>just a shine. The target continued being observed with the FLIR.
>Then we detected other targets at the left side of the plane.
>They were eleven targets. We never had visual contact with them.

NOTE: this seems to refer to the turn after the initial chase
(37 miles to 2 miles)

>Question: The eleven targets appeared on the normal (non-
>infrared) radar?

>Answer. No. The eleven targets were not detected on the radar
>screen. Initially, only one target was detected by the radar.

NOTE: does this refer to the initial target (37 miles to 2 miles)?
Naturally the plane would have been flying toward the initial
radar target (thinking it was an airplane) so that would put the
initial target at 12:00 (straight ahead).
Was there a radar target straight ahead after the "turn" and
during the IR imagery?  It seems so.

>Then another target appeared at one o'clock, that's how we
>describe the position that is in front but slightly to our
>right. And then a third one in back of the plane. Those were the
>only three targets that appeared in the radar screen during the
>incident. The other ones that were at nine 'o clock, on our left
>side never appeared on the radar.

NOTE: in the abov he he apparently talking about the situation
while the FLIR system was showing "lights" at the left of the
plane. The lights at the left were not detected by the radar,
which was continually scanning 360 degrees around the airplane.
Th FLIR pointing direction was controlled by the operator who
apparently never (?) scanned al the way around (at least no
report of that yet).

>Question: There was a time when these objects surrounded you.

>Answer: Yes, we can assume that because we had information of a
>target in the front, another one slightly to the right, one in
>the back, and according to the FLIR several others on our left
>side. So, we assumed that we were surrounded.

Note: radar says target at 12:00, target at 1:00 target and one
at (about) 6:00 (behind) relative to straight ahead (12:00).
FLIR says multiple objects at the left. No statement about a
FLIR search for objects ahead or at the right or behind.

<snip>

>Question: The objects movements on the radar were out of the
>ordinary?

>Answer: Certainly. Our data information - most of all, the icons
>(blips), the clusters - were always there on the screen, but the
>information on their movements was constantly changing. Their
>speed changes were sudden, 60 -120- 300 knots, according to the
>radar information.

NOTE: this is important information not presented in the initial
report (at least not translated).  The radar has the capability
through the Doppler effect of "instantly" measuring the speed of
an object. However, the measurement is only made once every 10
seconds (the rotation rate of the radar). Nevertheless, to
change speed as indicated above in 10 seconds would be
anomalous. And, in fact, the report of rapid speed changes adds
evern more to the unexplained aspect of this sighting.

>The same happened with their flight paths. The courses showed 90
>degrees at first then, suddenly, 130 degrees on the radar
>screen.

>Question: What does that mean?

>Answer: It means that the target changed direction constantly
>at great speed. There is no aircraft that can perform such
>direction changes so quickly.

NOTE: yet another reason for unexplained:


---

>Interview with Lieutenant Mario Adrian Velazquez Tellez. FLIR
>operator.

>Question: Is it possible that the FLIR gave false information?

>Answer: It is not posible. This was visual information of a
>target that had both heat and movement, so it would not make
>reference to something that was not there.

NOTE: The FLIR system is designed to respond only to radiation
in the range 3.6-5 microns. There is no reason to expect it to
create images of anything other than sources of 3.6-5 micron
electroagnetic radiation.

Question: Does the FLIR register hot air?

>Answer: No. FLIR doesn't register hot air, it registers an
>object that generates heat.

The FLIR cannot "see" the hot gasses coming out of an engine. It
can see the warm r hot engine body, however.

>Question: Then the eleven objects that were detected by the FLIR
>were generating heat. Were these objects there even though you
>couldn't see them with your eyes?

>Answer: They were there, and we have the data references by
>their positions. They were on our left side, at the same
>laltitude and the same speed.

NOTE: the interview does not say whether or not the FLIR
operator rotated the FLIR sensor to scan in all directions. It
would certainly seem natural that he would do that, but it would
be nice to see a statement to that effect. In particular, it
would be nice to know whether or not the FLIR system picked up a
target at 12:00, one at 1:00 and one at 6:00.

>Question: How much heat were the objects generating?

>Answer. We ran several measurements trying to get an image and
>all the time the targets registered very hot. We never found any
>irregular shape, they were spherical all the time.

NOTE: what experiments?

>Question: Is this type of shape irregular with respect to other
>aircraft you have detected before?

>Answer: Yes, it was an irregular shape. I know of nothing like
.the aircraft I saw.

NOTE: for a typical airplane at several miles distance the FLIR
system could show an image that has the shape of an airplane
with very "hot spots" at the locations of the engines

>Question: In your experience do you have any previous personal
>knowledge of any similar incident like this?

>Answer: I have never experienced anything like this and I don't
>know what to tell you. I don't have any explanation for what
t>hese objects were.

>Question: You had detection with both radar and FLIR?

>Answer. Correct. The radar gave us positions and then with the
>FLIR we searched that area. We located the targets and we kept
>those targets on screen while the radar was detecting other
>targets, giving us more positions. We tried to keep all the
>targets on screen all the time, so as not to lose them.

NOTE: the radar and FLIR was "coupled" in such a way that the
radar would give target direction to the FLIR and then the
operator could scan back and forth relative to that direction to
search for a target. Typically he would look for the heated
engines of an airplane.  Evidently the FLIR operator found the
large number of objects at the left but it is necessary to know
whether or not he pointed the FLIR in any other direction and, i
particular whether or not he got images in the directions of the
radar targets during the time of being "surrounded."

>Question: How did the objects surround the airplane?

>Answer: The radar had objects on the front, slighlty to the
>right and on the back. The FLIR had several objects on the left
>so we could say that we were surrounded.

>Question: Were the objects big in size?

>Answer: They were big, especially two of them that were closer
>to us.

Can't really say much about size except that if the objects were
2 miles away the infrared light sources couldn't have been
larger than the diameter of the bright circular image projected
to 2 miles, i.e., they were smaller than about 7 ft. (This
refers to the two very bright lights side by side, separated by
about 17 ft).

>Question: Could FLIR have created this - is it posible to
>manipulate the FLIR information?

>Answer: No. It is not posible to load information into the FLIR.
>All the information the FLIR detects is out there and is really
>happening. And the FLIR records this information in real time.

NOTE: Both the FLIR system and the radar system had tape
recorders. Apparently on the FLIR system was actually recording
'the events. Of course, the air traffic control also had a tape
and maybe the airplane cockpit recorder.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                        Scarborough Ontario 05-15-04

From: Brian Vike HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:05:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:32:06 -0400
Subject: Scarborough Ontario 05-15-04


Scarborough, Ontario

Date:  May 15 2004
Time:  Approx 7:50-8:00 p.m.

Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 2+
Shape of objects: round

Full Description of event/sighting: At dusk (approx 7:50-8:00
pm) on May 15 2004, from my home in East Scarborough near Lake
Ontario, looking south towards the lake, some moving lights in
the sky caught my attention. They were confined to a fairly
small area of the sky and seemed to be at about cloud level. My
guess is the lights were moving about perhaps a few miles off
our shoreline, and would likely have been high enough and far
enough over the lake to also have been visible from the US side
of the lake. It had been an overcast day and the sky at this
time was clearing. It wasn't nearly dark enough yet to observe
any stars.

At first I saw one small pink-red light at cloud level traveling
parallel to the ground and in a straight line moving from East
to West at about the same rate as I'd expect to see planes
travel. This light flashed on and off with a regular rhythm like
an aircraft and was about the same size as an aircraft light
seen at such a distance. It seemed to have appeared out of
nowhere, then traveled west for perhaps 5 seconds and
disappeared. I thought I had seen and then lost sight of a
plane.

Suddenly from the very same place in the sky that the light
originally appeared, and only seconds after the first light
vanished, another light appeared. It was the same colour and
behaved exactly like the first light, even traveling in the very
same line. It too disappeared in the same manner as the first
light. This behavior of a light appearing, traveling for a few
seconds across the sky and then disappearing repeated 6-10
times. After a few passes the reappearing light ceased flashing
as it moved across the sky. It glowed a reddish pink colour and
without blinking as it moved.

The behaviour of the light then changed. Suddenly the light was
moving from west to east and towards the end of the sighting it
seemed that there might have been more than one light in play.
Just as one vanished another appeared. The direction of flight
changed to a sweeping arc. The flight started parallel to the
ground and then curved steeply upwards and seemed to accelerate
just before disappearing. There seemed to be a distinct
repetitive pattern to the flight of the light(s). As one light
moved from east to west, arcing at the end of its flight,
another light mirrored that pattern by flying west to east and
then arced upwards at the end. The area the lights were
"playing" in the sky drifted higher and a little to the east as
the sighting continued. It also seemed that the activity of the
lights became more intense towards the end. They appeared and
disappeared more quickly and the flight pattern became more
energetic. The best thought that comes to mind is it appeared
that they were growing increasingly excited about something as
the activity became quite hectic towards the end. The display of
these lights lasted about 5 minutes and was witnessed by a
friend with me at the time. His impression was that the lights
were chasing each other, as in a dogfight.

The flight pattern reminded me of when you see a powerful spot
light beamed in the sky circling and moving about, starting and
finishing its routine in the same place every time. These lights
were a lot like what you see when you use a red laser pointer,
except the colour of the lights in the sky were less intense red
than a laser, rather being an almost pink sort of colour. Since
the cloud cover was quite thin at this time it's unlikely that
some sort of laser was beaming around on the cloud cover (If it
was an extremely powerful laser I would have seen the lights
fade in and out as the beam struck thin patches of clouds. The
lights I saw held intensity as they flew across the sky before
vanishing suddenly.)

There was no sound accompanying this sighting and I think the
flight behavior was too radical for normal aircraft. The speed
and turns were not something I've ever seen planes capable of
doing, particularly without making sound. The regular flashing
of the lights in the beginning was aircraft-like, but the
reddish-pink colour was unusual. I got the feeling while
watching the lights that I was seeing glowing objects, something
without mass (like the spot made by a laser) rather than a solid
aircraft.

In such an urban area as this I can't imagine that my friend and
I were the only two people to have seen this blatant display of
something quite unusual right out in the open and in daylight.
Surely our beaches and boardwalks, which provide a perfect view
of the southern sky, were busy on Saturday after dinner and many
people could have seen this event. I've checked into all the
major local news sources, newspapers, radio and local TV news
and haven't seen a mention of this event. I hope to learn what
it was that we saw, or at least hear accounts from other
witnesses.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

              Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:06:45 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:39:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:38:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Par1

>>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:05:34 +0200 (CEST)
>>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

><snip>

>>I am afraid that what needs to be reviewed is the transcription
>>from the full, unedited video, or any technical note or report
>>produced by the Mexican Air Force, if it exists.

>>What it is being translated (and taken for granted as an
>>accurate picture of the event) is merely a personal
>>interpretation of the events, not an official report, which per
>>se already colours the case. Please be cautious with what you
>>deduce or infer from this text.

>Hello VJ, All,

>This is a _nasty_ accusation that you make about Jaime Maussan's
>report. If Jaime has been inaccurate or 'creative' in his report
>of this incident, the onus is on _you_ to publish your evidence
>for it right along-side of your (demeaning and insulting)
>accusation.

>You have to be ready to back-up accusations (such as the one you
>have levelled at Maussan about his report) with something
>'harder' than just your opinion.

>"Opinions are like sphincters, we all have one and they all
>stink!"  <g>

Your style is clear!

>Hard evidence for your accusations please? Otherwise publish a
>speedy retraction and an apology to Jaime. There's just too much
>real work that needs doing right away to get caught up in this
>kind of time-wasting 'personality' BS.

>Please, VJ, see if you can find a more 'constructive' way to
>make yourself useful. Personally, I don't plan on 'debating'
>anybody about anything. Any one who attempts to engage me in
>debate over matters of opinion should not expect an on, or off-
>list, response from me. I don't wish to draw energy and
>attention away from what may prove to be an important event.
>Nor do I have the time or inclination to enter into empty,
>pointless debate.


John,

I just reminded researchers that the information being
translated comes from a private source, i.e. from an individual
- someone who is entitled to have their own orientation,
motivations and beliefs as opposed to the translation of an
official report or a technical note - not from an official
source.

Any objection?

If you want to see accusations or create any stir or problem out
of something so basic, you can kindly forget me and look
elsewhere.

Sincerely,

V-J








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                          Secrecy News -- 05/18/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:14:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:41:48 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/18/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 45
May 18, 2004


**      SPECIAL ACCESS PROGRAMS AMEND REGULATIONS
**      NATIONAL CRIMINAL INTELLIGENCE SHARING PLAN UNVEILED
**      TSA EXPANDS SCOPE OF SENSITIVE SECURITY INFORMATION
**      NAZI WAR CRIMES RECORDS DECLASSIFIED
**      STATE SECRETS AND THE SIBEL EDMONDS CASE


SPECIAL ACCESS PROGRAMS AMEND REGULATIONS

Questionable military regulations governing highly classified
"special access programs" (SAPs) are being hastily rewritten as
allegations surface that some SAPs may violate law or national
policy.

According to one U.S. Army Regulation from 1998, special access
controls may be applied to "An extremely sensitive activity
requiring special protection from disclosure to prevent
significant damage to national security or the reputation or
interests of the United States."

See Army Regulation 380-381, 12 October 1998, section 1-4(6):

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/ar380-381-old.pdf

But concealing official government activities in order to
prevent damage to "the reputation of the United States" is not a
legitimate use of special access procedures.  (By executive
order, such procedures may be applied only to exceptionally
vulnerable national security information.)

Last month, that Army Regulation was reissued without reference
to potential damage to the "reputation of the United States"
(and with numerous other modifications to strengthen oversight
and for other purposes).

See the newly updated Army Regulation 380-381, 21 April 2004 (also
available in html format at cryptome.org):

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/ar380-381.pdf

Writing in The New Yorker magazine this week, Seymour Hersh
reported that acts of torture committed against Iraqi prisoners
originated in one Defense Department SAP that was established
for the purpose of interrogating "high value" targets in the war
on terrorism.  The Pentagon and the CIA emphatically denied the
story.

Special access programs entail secrecy and security measures
that go beyond those of ordinary classified programs.  These may
include augmented background investigations, polygraph tests,
program-specific non-disclosure agreements, etc.

The security procedures governing Pentagon special access programs
are described in "Department of Defense Overprint to the National
Industrial Security Program Operating Manual Supplement" (For
Official Use Only), a copy of which was obtained by Secrecy News:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/nispom_dod_overprint.pdf


NATIONAL CRIMINAL INTELLIGENCE SHARING PLAN UNVEILED

The Justice Department last week announced the establishment of
the National Criminal Intelligence Sharing Plan, an effort to
promote the sharing of intelligence information among federal,
state, and local law enforcement agencies.

"The plan is the outcome of an unprecedented effort by law
enforcement agencies, with the strong support of the Department
of Justice, to strengthen the nation's security through better
intelligence analysis and sharing," said Attorney General John
Ashcroft.

See a Justice Department Fact Sheet on the new initiative here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2004/05/doj051404.html

Although the scope of the Plan is more ambitious than previous
efforts, it is not exactly unprecedented.

The Joint Intelligence Community Law Enforcement (JICLE) working
group, led in part by the much-maligned Jamie Gorelick, ploughed
much of the same ground in the 1990s.

See the Report to the Attorney General and the Director of
Central Intelligence from the Joint Task Force on Intelligence
and Law Enforcement, May 1995 (50 pages, 3.1 MB PDF file) here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/joint.pdf


TSA EXPANDS SCOPE OF SENSITIVE SECURITY INFORMATION

The Transportation Security Agency indicated today that it will
expand its use of the control category "sensitive security
information" (SSI) to further restrict public access to maritime
and port security information.

See the TSA Notice in the Federal Register today:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/05/fr051804.html

By statute, TSA has unilateral authority to restrict information
that it deems "detrimental" to security.

Concerns that TSA's use of SSI is having an adverse impact on
government accountability were discussed in "Sensitive Security
Information (SSI) and Transportation Security: Background and
Controversies," Congressional Research Service, February 5,
2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS21727.pdf


NAZI WAR CRIMES RECORDS DECLASSIFIED

In the last of the large, focused declassification initiatives
of the 1990s, an Interagency Working Group last week announced
the release of hundreds of thousands of pages of documents
declassified under provisions of the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure
Act of 1996.  See:

http://www.archives.gov/media_desk/press_releases/nr04-55.html

http://www.archives.gov/iwg/press_releases/fbi_cia_gehlen_release.html

In a stroke of legislative brilliance, the authors of the 1996
Act overcame the CIA's habitual secrecy regarding historical
matters by modifying the DCI's authority to withhold such
information.

Thus, records related to Nazi war crimes could not be
automatically withheld just because they pertained to
"intelligence sources and methods."  Rather, source information
could be withheld only if it "would clearly and demonstrably
damage the national security interests of the United States," a
much tougher and more sensible standard.

As a result, "We had unprecedented success at actually opening
CIA files that ordinarily are never opened," said Steven
Garfinkel, director of the Interagency Working Group.

Nearly 800 CIA "name files" have now been opened, Mr. Garfinkel
noted, whereas in the past only one, on Lee Harvey Oswald, had
ever been made available.


STATE SECRETS AND THE SIBEL EDMONDS CASE

Attorney General John Ashcroft invoked the "state secrets
privilege" again last week to prevent former FBI translator
Sibel Edmonds from providing a deposition in a pending lawsuit
related to the September 11 attacks.

See this May 14 filing by the Attorney General formally invoking
the privilege:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/edmonds051404.pdf

Ms. Edmonds has previously said that she saw intelligence
reports prior to September 11 indicating that al Qaida planned
to fly hijacked aircraft into U.S. skyscrapers.  The Justice
Department has repeatedly intervened to prevent her from
elaborating on her statements in court.

"Edmonds's story has been almost uniformly ignored in the U.S.
daily press," wrote Jefferson Morley in the Washington Post, at
the same time that it has been widely reported in foreign news
media.

See "Sept. 11 Allegations Lost in Translation" by Jefferson
Morley, Washington Post, April 8:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60651-2004Apr8.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                      UFO History Has Come Full Circle

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:44:55 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:49:52 -0400
Subject: UFO History Has Come Full Circle


UFO History Has Come Full Circle
By
Larry W. Bryant

While the "jury" (i.e., in the Court of Public Opinion)
continues to weigh the evidence and value of the recent Mexican
military's airborne encounter with "universal" flying objects,
let's put the case in perspective:

The other day, I had a lunchtime rendezvous with UFO-disclosure
advocate Stephen G. Bassett, along with a mutual lawyer friend
who'd asked us to welcome to the fold a retired businessman from
Baltimore. We gathered at the restaurant housed in the Hilton
hotel in Gaithersburg, Md. (yes, the very site of the Bassett-
directed X-Conference in mid-May).

During our documentary show-and-tell, the businessman passed
around photo-copies of a heretofore unpublicized, two-page,
"RESTRICTED" USAF telegram, dated Dec. 21, 1952. (The date has
special meaning for the businessman; for in that same year, he
and a couple of fellow students had witnessed a classic "flying
saucer" in the skies of Tennessee.)

Since the teletype message retains the identity of the two
fighter-pilot witnesses to the nighttime encounter, we can
conclude that the printout of this raw-intelligence report
somehow escaped the privacy sanitization that occurred upon USAF
Project Blue Book records' transfer to the U. S. National
Archives and Records Service. Indeed, according to the
businessman, he'd acquired his copy from a former communications
NCO of the 4418th Communications Group at Donaldson Air Force
Base in Greenville, S.C. Apparently, the airman had purloined
this copy as a souvenir from the worldwide UFO "flap" of 1952.

From its origin (the 62d Troop Carrier Wing at Larson AFB in the
state of Washington), the message went to the following
addressees: Director of Intelligence, HQ, USAF, Washington 25,
D.C.; Tactical Air Command, Langley AFB, Va.; Air Technical
Intelligence Center, Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio; Ent AFB, Colo.;
18th Air Force, Donaldson AFB; and the 25th Air Defense, McChord
AFB, Wash.

Note: in my following transcription of the message's content,
I've translated, for readability, some of the abbreviated
terminology (e.g., for "PD," I've used an actual period; for
"CMA," I've used an actual comma; for the word "FR," I've used
"from"; for "RG," I've used "range" -- etc.):

-----

R E S T R I C T E D /TCWOIN 12-282. Wright-Patterson AFB, ATTN:
ATI-AA-2C. FLYOBRPT [flying object report].

One [meaning paragraph No. 1 of the prescribed reporting format
-- LWB]. Large round white object, larger than any known type of
aircraft. Dim reddish-white light coming from two windows. No
trail or exhaust observed. At one time, at least half-dozen in
formation scattered. Could reverse direction almost instantly.
Propulsion system unknown. 240 knots estimated constant. Did a
chandelle in front. Starboard turn. Head-on and then would
suddenly stop and be pulling off in direction of aircraft. F-94
banked away and lost visual contact. Radar contact lost by going
out of range.

Two. 1915 hours Pacific time. Observed 10 Dec 52 for 15
minutes.

Three. Visual and airborne radar/APG-33/ A/C 230K. 26,000 --
 27,000 feet. F-94B.

Four. 40 miles east of Larson, 118 degrees, 40 minutes N; 47
degrees, 20 minutes W. Near town of Odessa, Wash. 18,000 yards,
150 yards port, degrees to 90 degrees. Level to 20 degrees
below.

Five. Lt. Harsh: 600 hours, 300 hours in F-94, 2-and-one-half
years' service. Lt. Batison: 500 hours, 100 hours in F-94, 5
years' service. No glasses, several years since last illness.
Reaction by Lt. Harsh: curious, cautious, excited.

Six. Cloud cover 3,000 feet below, clear above, no moon. 270 at
75 knots.

Seven. None.

Eight. None.

Nine. Could not contact GCA [ground control approach] station
immediately and their WPN [weapon?] bent. Radar contact 15
minutes after lost sight. Took action to avoid.

Ten. One F-94 30 miles, one F-94 at 75 miles, both at lower
altitude.

-----

So what have we here: a case of dancing, glowing, high-flying
pelicans larger than any known aircraft - or playful alien
spacecraft flaunting their advanced technology; or, maybe, in
other avian terms, merely some evidence that not all crows are
black?

For the answer, we may have to fast-forward to Mexico 52 years
hence. Imagine what a different world (and world view) we'd have
today had that no-longer-latent USAF report been publicly
released a few weeks after its birth. And imagine some sheer
irony here: that very same South American country that had
played host to a (USAF-recovered) crash-landed flying saucer
just across the border from Del Rio, Texas, in early December
1950 now has become the cutting edge of the long-overdue
official disclosure that some of the reported UFOs constitute
hardware from elsewhere.

Finally, let your imagination in this situation fuel your
response in case you ever get invited to lunch by some UFOIA-
committed researchers.

[Update: Since e-dispatching this essay, I've heard from an
Oregon-based researcher, as follows:


"Larry: 'My weapon is bent ' - [an expression] as used by our
light bomb wing in Korea at the time of the sighting you sent me
- meant, usually, that all ordnance had been expended and the
aircraft would not be able to effectively intercept a ground
target.

A secondary meaning was that there had been an equipment
malfunction which prevented use of the ordnance.

IF someone was playing games and creating a hoax report, he at
least knew the slang of the day."


To which I've replied:

"Well, sir, thanks indeed for this clarification. I feel that
the report is genuine (the Baltimore gentleman also showed me a
couple of documents - including an interim performance appraisal
on the master sergeant who'd purloined the TWX - that dealt with
the airman's career)."








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 20

From: John Hayes <John.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:08:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:53:52 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 20



Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 20
May 19, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-Mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


MEXICAN AIR FORCE TRACKS
11 UFOs OVER CAMPECHE

      Mexican ufologist and TV personality Jaime Maussan
broke the news on Sunday, May 9, 2004, during a broadcast
of Los Grandes Misterios del Tercer Milenio (Spanish for
Great Mysteries of the Third Millenium--J.T.) on the
Mexican TV network Multimedios Television in Monterrey,
Nuevo Leon state.
      Maussan revealed that on Tuesday, April 20, 2004, he
was "contacted by a high-ranking member of Mexico's
Department of Defense to have a private meeting and
discuss a subject of high relevant matter."
      The following day, Wednesday, April 21, 2004, Maussan
met with Gen. Gerardo Clemente Vega Garcia, Mexico's
Secretary of Defense "and was informed about an incident
that took place on (Friday) March 5 (2004) in the airspace
over Ciudad del Carmen," in Mexico's eastern state of
Campeche "where a Merlin C-26A was doing a routine flight
to detect drug-smuggling airplanes during an anti-
narcotics operation."
      "The Merlin C-26A was equipped with high-tech digital
equipment to register and record all activities during the
operation.  Powerful sensors like the FLIR (Forward-
Looking Infrared Radar--J.T.) Star Zapphir II and a Radar
AN/PS 143 were being used by qualified personnel aboard
the airplane, and operations were recorded in both
conventional and infrared radar."
      The aircraft was under the command of Major Magdaleno
Jasso Castanon.  The FLIR operator was Lieutenant Mario
Adrian Vasquez, and the radar operator was Lt. Gherman
Ramirez.  All three men were assigned to 501 Squadron of
the Fuerza Aerea Mexicana (FAM or Mexican Air Force--J.T.)
      "At approximately 5 p.m." on Friday, March 5, 2004,
"the Merlin C-26A detected unknown traffic over Ciudad del
Carmen," located on the Bahia de Campeche about 500
kilometers (300 miles) east of Mexico City.  "According to
protocol, Maj. Jasso made a manuever to approach the
unidentified traffic at a certain range in order to get a
clear look."
      At the same time, Maj. Jasso radioed the FAM air base
"that a possible suspect had been detected and requested
that jet interceptors be put on alert."
      As the Merlin C-26A tried to approach the unknown
traffic to make a visual identification, the object
"suddenly escaped in a surprising maneuver, flying away at
tremendous speed.  Maj. Jasso tried to pursue the target,
but it was very fast.  All this was being recorded by the
FLIR and the radar and also in radio conversations with
the base, describing the unexpected maneuver of the
unknown object."
      At this time, the FAM crew "still had not made visual
contact" with the object.
      "Moments passed, when suddenly the unknown object
returned and began following the Merlin C-26A.  This was
detected by the radar and the FLIR while the personnel
kept trying to make visual contact.  The equipment
detected not only one but two 'unknown traffics' following
them.  The images on both the radar and the FLIR were
clear and unmistakable.  However, the crew still couldn't
make visual contact with the two traffics even though the
objects by that time were at close range."
      "In a matter of seconds, more unknowns arrived at the
scene.  The radar and FLIR detected immediately the
presence of nine new objects that arrived surprisingly
like 'coming from nowhere.'  The situation had entered
into a high level of danger so Maj. Jasso radioed the
base, requesting instructions."
      "Still the crew couldn't see them.  No visual contact
with the unknowns was possible for some reason never
experienced before by these highly-trained men.  However,
the high-tech sophisticated equipment and radars were not
lying.  There were 11 targets outside with unpredictable
intentions."
      "The unknown objects suddenly made a maneuver,
surrounding the Mexican Air Force plane at close range.
The radar and the FLIR presented an image of 11 objects in
a circle around the Merlin C-26A."
      "Maj. Jasso reported to the base that the aircraft's
situation was now at red alert," that the plane "was
surrounded by 11 mysterious, round-shaped objects
camoflauged with a certain unknown advanced technology."
      Maj. Jasso then turned off all lights aboard his
aircraft.  The FLIR continued to record the images until
they flew away.
      On Thursday, May 11, 2004, at 11 a.m., Maussan called
a press conference at the Hotel Sevilla Palacio in Mexico
City.  He presented a 15-minute video to the reporters and
answered questions about the encounter over Ciudad del
Carmen.
      "'They were invisible to the eye, but they were
there,'" Maussan reportedly said, "'There is no doubt
about it.  They had mass, they had energy, and they were
moving fast.'"
      "At the news conference, Jaime Maussan told reporters
that the objects seemed 'intelligent' because at one point
they changed direction and surrounded the plane that was
chasing them."
      The Mexican government "confirmed the video was shot
by the Air Force on March 5 (2004) over the eastern state
of Campeche as the aircraft looked for drug traffickers
over the Gulf of Mexico."
      "'We are not alone!  This is so weird!' one of the
pilots can be heard yelling" on the videotape, according
to Reuters news service.
      "The objects were described as blobs of light that
hover in formation and dart about, sometimes disappearing
into a cloud."
      "'There was a moment when the screens showed they
were behind us, to the left and in front of us.  It was at
that point that I felt a bit tense,'" Maj. Jasso said.
      In a telephone interview with the Mexican newspaper
Hoy, Gen. Vega Garcia said, "We track furtive aircraft
that could be the source of drug trafficking.  The
(Campeche) area is well known in this regard.  Only two
days ago (Monday, May 10, 2004) we captured a small plane
with over 1,000 kilos of cocaine.  Our aircraft is the
same one which locates such illegal traffic and guides
other air elements to enable their capture."
      "I receive daily information about what happens with
those flights throughout the Republic," Gen. Vega Garcia
added, "This data was sent in for analysis, has no
explanation, and I would like to caution that we never
spoke of UFOs or saucers or anything, only the sighting of
some very strange contacts that were incomprehensible in
the situation, given that there was nothing at all flying
in the air at the time, according to the Ciudad del Carmen
Airport.  The (radar) devices recorded accurately a series
of luminous contacts."
      Skeptics claimed later in the week that the objects
captured in the infrared were "fragments of a meteor" or
weather balloons or rare examples of ball lightning.  (See
the Mexican newspaper Hoy for May 12, 13 and 14, 2004.
Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Santiago Yturria y Marco
Reynoso para estos informes.)


PHOTOGRAPHER SNAPS A
UFO IN MALAGA, SPAIN

      On Wednesday, April 1, 2004, a religious procession
put on by the Cofrada de Nazarenos del Santo Cristo de las
Penas marched out of the Divina Pastora Roman Catholic
Church in the barrio Capuchinos (neighborhood) of Malaga,
a seaport city in southern Spain.
      "The event occurred between 6:30 and 6:45 p.m. along
a stretch of road running parallel to the Rio
Guadalmedina, specifically as they passed through Pasillo
Santa Isabel, where the cameraman had the chance to
approach the image of the crucified Christ from various
angles using the sky as a backdrop."
      "'This was possible because there weren't too many
spectators present, unlike the larger parades, such as El
Captivo, to whom miracles have been ascribed here in
Malaga,' the photographer said."
      The photographer, a man named Rainor, "claims that
after transferring the images from his digital camera to a
computer, and having inspected them one by one, he
realized that the camera had picked up something that was
not seen at the time neither by him nor by anyone present
at the procession."
      Rainor shot images of the procession using a SONY
Cybershot Model P-31, with two megapixels of image storage
space.
      "The weather condition at the time was a clear sky
that offered plenty of light and heat," Rainor told the
Spanish news media.  The daylight disc appears "over the
river and the barrio Trinidad on the other side of the
bridge."
      Malaga is a port on the Mediterranean Sea, located
about 500 kilometers (300 miles) south of Spain's capital,
Madrid.  (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Marco Reynoso
para esto informe.)


LUMINOUS UFO SEEN IN
SUNDERLAND, UK

      "Is it a bird?  Is it a plane?  Or is it something
from a galaxy far, far away?"
      "Neil Carter was putting the rubbish out in the
backyard of his Sunderland home when a mysterious flashing
light caught his eye.  Unable to tell exactly what it
might be, he rushed inside, grabbed a camera and started
snapping away at the banana-shaped object."
      "Mr. Carter, from Monkwearmouth, said: 'At first it
appeared to be very small and was bobbing up and down in
the sky.  Then it dropped down a bit and got bigger.  It
was all a bit of a shock because there was nothing else in
the sky and there appeared to be no explanation as to what
it might be.'"
      "The sighting, last Saturday (May 1, 2004) at about
9:15 p.m. was also spotted by Mr. Carter's girlfriend."
      "It came just weeks after amateur stargazer Alan
Toon, 60, from Park Estates, Hetton, spotted two lights
floating above in the sky near his home.  He had also been
walking outside to empty the rubbish when he noticed the
mysterious object."
      "Mr. Carter is hoping other people in the area might
have seen the light and could offer him some kind of
explanation as to what it might have been."
      "The self-employed businessman from Devonshire Street
added: 'I have always believed there might be other life
out there--it would be a shame to think there was only
us.'"
      "'I really don't know exactly what it was that I saw,
but I would certainly like to try and find out.  To
witness something like this is really very strange.'"
      "Reports of unexplained objects in the Wearside skies
have stretched back to the 1950s."
      "One of the oddest was that of Gordon Brown, who
spoke to the Echo in 1993 about the events of September
22, 1951 when he went to Roker Park for Sunderland's clash
with Portsmouth.  Despite being among thousands of
potential witnesses, soldier Gordon struggled to find
anyone else to back up his story.  He was standing in the
Fulwell End when a man in front of him pointed at
something in the sky, a small object shaped like a child's
spinning top about 20,000 feet (6,000 meters) up, which
hovered above the ground for about half an hour."
      "In 1996, a strange craft was seen over Hendon,
emitting bright yellow beams from its centre."
      "A bumper crop of sightings emerged in August and
September 1988, with UFOs sighted over Marston Grotto,
Sunderland and County Durham."  (See This is Sunderland
for May 6, 2004, "Mystery sighting has Neil baffled."
Many thanks to Robert Fischer for this newspaper report.)


NIGHT SAUCER SPOTTED
IN RZESZOW, POLAND

      "A UFO was sighted above Rzeszow, the main city of
Podkarpacie province" in Poland "on the night of (Tuesday)
May 4, 2004."
      "It was very similar to the classic UFO with a dome
on its saucer-like structure.  The UFO was photographed by
a college student in Rzeszow.  This event is being
investigated and studied by the Center for UFO and
Anomalous Phenomena Research (Polish acronym: CBUFOIZA--
J.T.)."
      "Similar objects were seen and photographed over
Rzeszow with VHS videocameras in 1998 and again in 2000."
      "It is worth noting that this is the second UFO photo
made above Podkarpacie province during the past two years.
The first one was made over the village of Brzostek on
July 26, 2003.  CBUFOIZA has all ten photographs of that
UFO."
(Many thanks to Polish ufologists Arkadiusz Miazga and
Robert K. Lesniakiewicz for this news story.)


YELLOW-LIGHTS UFO SEEN
BY A FAMILY IN INDIA

      On Wednesday, May 12, 2004, at 10:10 p.m., eyewitness
Ankita's mother "was standing on our balcony" at an
apartment house in Koyambedu, Chennai in India's southern
state of Tamil Nadu, "looking at the skies" when "she
noticed an array of dim yellowish lights arranged like a
semi-circle moving towards her right."
      "She pointed it out to my sister," Ankita reported,
"and she came running to tell me, as I was in my room.  By
the time I came out, it had gone out of sight.  Then we
tried to go to the terrace, but there was no light there.
So we came home, and I went to the balcony again, thinking
I had missed it, but, to my surprise, I saw a similar
array of lights but of a different shape.  We were excited
and waited to see more.  All our neighbours were asleep so
we could not inform them."
      "I told my Dad and he came out with us.  After some
time, we saw it again.  I tried to capture it on video,
but it was dim, and there was no battery in the camera.
We saw it three more times that evening, a total of six
times in all.  Dad saw it two times.  It seemed to appear
suddenly halfway up the sky to the north, and then to
drift horizontally at constant speed towards our right
(south--J.T.) and out of sight."
      "The last two times, it came with a low rumbling
sound.  The last time it was the loudest and the lowest.
Then it was almost 11 p.m., and we went to sleep."
      The UFO "was below Venus, as it was visible from our
balcony that night, and it moved at constant speed at a
uniform horizontal height (altitude--J.T.)."  (Email Form
Report)


UNUSUAL UFO SIGHTED
IN HUDSON, FLORIDA

      On Thursday, May 13, 2004, at 10 p.m., eyewitness
Susan Bohm reported, "I was letting the dog out the east
back door of my home" in Hudson, Florida (population
12,765) "and, in doing so, stepped outside to admire the
sky and stars, as I usually do when waiting for him.  A
movement to my right caught my eye, and I turned to watch
something fast approach" from the southwest "rather high
in the air, transparent yet with a 'pod-like' bubble."
      "There were three triangular-shaped illuminated
items--each one independent of the other; yet in
formation, one being in front, one on the left, and one on
the right."
      "The transparent mass seemed to ripple (the only word
that comes to mind--S.B.)  I did have enough time to look
elsewhere to ensure that all else was visible still.  Yet
the 'bubble' mass was vibrating, rippling as it moved very
quickly northwest toward the Gulf of Mexico."
      "Within the three (objects), the moving force kept
their patterns inside the mass."
      "They did not fly like birds, yet the movement is
more fashioned to that type of movement.  The light did
not seem to be a 'light,' more like a sheen or a shine
like the reflection you get from black plexiglass on
appliances.  I do know what I saw and wrote down a drawing
and my exact feelings at the time.  But it is very hard to
describe in words what I did see.  The transparency and
the vibrating rippling movement was more interesting than
the items in it."
      Hudson is on Highway 19, on Florida's Gulf of Mexico
shoreline, about 40 miles (64 kilometers) north of St.
Petersburg.  (Email Form Report)


LATEST ON FAYETTE FACTOR

      Homicide dominated the latest round of Fayette Factor
incidents last week.
      The Fayette Factor is one of the least-understood
Fortean phenomena in the USA.  It consists of the high
incidence of paranormal events relating to places named
after the Marquis de Lafayette, one of the USA's Founding
Fathers and a prominent Freemason.
      In Fayette County, Pennsylvania--an area with the
highest incidence of such strange happenings--"a man was
shot to death as he stood outside a housing development in
Brownsville, Pa." on Tuesday, May 11, 2004.
      In Louisiana, "investigators believe that Luo
Haiming, the University of Louisiana-Lafayette student
from China, who is being sought in the death of a fellow
student, remains in the United States."
      Also, "a missing graduate student's body was found in
her dormitory at the University of Louisiana" in
Lafayette, La. (population 110,257) on Friday, May 7,
2004.
      Finally, the Fayette Factor managed to surface in the
top news story in the USA--the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at
the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.
      "Army Spc. Charles Graner, an accused ringleader in
the abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison in
Baghdad, repeatedly has faced allegations of violence and
psychological abuse in his personal life and at his job as
a Pennsylvania prison guard."
      "Graner, 35, was charged Friday," May 14, 2004, "with
cruelty, maltreatment and willfully failing to protect
prisoners from abuse at Abu Ghraib.  The charges have cast
the Army reservist from Uniontown, Pa. as a key figure in
the abuse scandal that has embarrassed the United States."
      Uniontown (population 12,422) is the largest town in
Pennsylvania's Fayette County.  (See the Pittsburgh, Pa.
Post-Gazette for May 12, 2004, "Man gunned down in Fayette
County;" The Advertiser of Lafayette, La. for May 15,
2004, "Homicide suspect still in U.S.;" and USA Today for
May 17, 2004, "Former guard has a history of complaints,"
page 7A.)


READER FEEDBACK:

TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN IN KANSAS

      Gary Cofer of Kansas writes, "Two months ago I saw
something very similar to the UFO reported in Varnville,
South Carolina recently.  A triangular aircraft or UFO.
At the time I didn't think much about it because I was
late for work--I work third shift.  It was around 10 p.m.
and I was heading to Lawrence, Kansas.  From the west
about 8 miles (12 kilometers) from town, I noticed a
bright light in the southern sky coming towards me.  I
kept watching as it got nearer and flew directly over me
at about 500 feet (165 meters)."
      "I looked up as it passed by and saw three lights on
the bottom that formed a triangle.  The lights lit up the
bottom of the craft, but it did not look like any aircraft
I am familiar with.  I was in the (U.S.) Air Force back in
the late 60s and early 70s."
      "What was strange about it was is that there were no
anti-collision lights and no wingtip lights.  As it went
over, it was moving at a very slow speed.  At the time I
wondered how it could stay in the air at that speed.
Anyway, it made a slow bank to the west after it passed
over.  In my car, I could not hear any noise.  At that
height I should have heard something."


ANOTHER WEIRD HUM REPORTED

      Nancy Ruhl of California wrote, "The article you sent
recently on mysterious hums was particularly interesting
because my husband and I had a similar experience one
night this past year.  Late in the middle of the night, my
husband Ron woke me up, asking, 'Do you hear that sound?'"
      "I listened intently for a few moments.  I suddenly
picked up on a most unusual, almost inaudible, low,
humming, pulsating sound.  I remember it sounded like the
hum of a UFO someone had managed to tape on their video
camcorder that Art Bell (host of) Coast to Coast, had
featured one night on his program a few years ago."
      "I replied, 'Yes, I sure do.'"
      "At that point, the sound suddenly stopped.  We
haven't heard it since."
      "I've lived in the San Francisco/East Bay area since
around 1962 and have never heard such a sound in this area
before."
      "I wondered at the time if HAARP up in Alaska could
be aiming in this direction, or if a real UFO was overhead
or behind my house, or if the military had tests going on
underground.  It was all very strange."

      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers.
If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received
the bulletin in error, please write to:

  <john.nul>

With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

              Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:01:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:34:50 -0400
Subject: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs -


Corrections:

=46rom the original Spanish:

Digno de comentar, es el hecho que de esta flotilla, sobresale
la presencia de un objeto de enormes proporciones que habr=EDa de
manifestarse durante el transcurso de la misi=F3n,

I translated the following:

Worthy of comment, is the fact that with this flotilla,
_exceeding_ it, is the presence of an object of enormous
proportions that made an appearance during the course of the
mission,

It should read:

"Worthy of comment, is the fact that with this flotilla,
preceding it, is the presence of an object of enormous
proportions that made an appearance during the course of the
mission," (referring to a 15 story high UFO)

I hope this clears up any confusion I may have created with my
first choice of an English word for 'sobresale'. Sobresale
literally translated means; 'comes out first' or, 'precedes'. I
don't know where I got "exceeds" from. A lapse of concentration
maybe.

In my own defense I must say that one of the
difficulties/obstacles in translating Spanish to English
_accurately_ has to do with having to deal with tricky
sentence/word inversions along with the way tenses are used in
Spanish. It can be like untying and then straightening out a
complex and twisted knot of words.

---

Thanks to John Harney for the following:

"John

You seem to have gone adrift in translating the end of the
sentence:

>Sumando un total de 11 objetos que de acuerdo a lo que se observa
>en la pantalla, la conformacion de los mismos seria esferica.

I would freely translate "la conformation de los mismos seria
esferica" as "their shape would be spherical", or something like
that. Seria in this context is the conditional of "ser", to be,
and "esferica" means spherical, as one might guess."

Again, my thanks to John for the assist.

Here is the corrected Part II of the Maussan report translation:

Continued from Part I

-----

JOVENESS NO ESTAMOS SOLOSS

"Young people... WE ARE NOT ALONE..."

Durante al menos 30 minutos, los oficiales de la Fuerza Aerea
Mexicana siguieron a las extranas luces; sin embargo, el propio
seguimiento ten=EDa deparadas sorpresas a la tripulacion del avion
militar, pues conforme avanzaban hacia su objetivo, la pantalla
del radar y la camara "FLIR", comenzaron a detectar mas ecos
desconocidos que se iban sumando a los que ya se ten=EDan
registrados. Sumando un total de 11 objetos que de acuerdo a lo
que se observa en la pantalla, la conformacion de los mismos
seria esferica.

For at least thirty minutes the officers of the Mexican Air
Force followed the strange lights, their monitoring bringing
many surprises to the crew of the military airplane.

In agreement as to action, and as they flew toward their target,
the radar screen and the FLIR began to detect more unknown
echoes in addition to those that had already registered.

Adding up to a total of 11 objects that, according to what was
observed on the screen, confirmed their shape would be
spherical.

Digno de comentar, es el hecho que de esta flotilla, sobresale la
presencia de un objeto de enormes proporciones que habr=EDa de
manifestarse durante el transcurso de la mision, esto, ante la
mirada atonita de los testigos; y que de acuerdo al testimonio
del piloto de al aeronave, podr=EDa haber tenido el tamano de un
edificio de 15 pisos, basandose en la lectura de la camara "FLIR".
Posteriormente los aparatos establecieron que aparentemente
los objetos rodeaban al avion.

Worthy of comment, is the fact that with this flotilla,
preceding it, was the presence of an object of enormous
proportions that made an appearance during the course of the
mission, this, before the amazed looks of the witnesses; and in
accordance with the testimony of the pilot of the airplane,
would have had to be the size of a fifteen story building. This
estimate being based on the readings from the "FLIR".
Subsequently the equipment helped to establish the fact that the
objects at one point _surrounded_ the airplane.

Vale la pena recordar que todo el personal militar para este tipo
de misiones, es gente altamente capacitada, pues opera en un
punto muy sensible de la seguridad nacional; teniendo en cuenta
esto, resulta sorprendente escuchar, tal como lo registro el audio
de la mision, como las expresiones de los tripulantes iban de la
emocion al sobresalto. As=ED, cuando escuchamos la conversacion
entre ellos, o=EDmos expresiones tales como "Jovenes, hoy es su d=EDa
de suerte." De todas, la que consideramos como el momento mas
memorable de la grabacion es cuando escuchamos: "JOVENESO
NO ESTAMOS SOLOSS"

It is worth while recalling that all the military personnel
chosen for this type of mission, are always the most highly
qualified as the operations deal with very sensitive aspects of
national security. Bearing this fact in mind, it is surprising
to listen to, as the audio record of the mission recorded it,
how emotional the comments of the crew members became. Thus,
when listening to the conversation, we hear expressions such as
"Young people what a lucky day!" Of all the comments made, the
most memorable, in the entire recording, is when we hear one of
them exclaim: "Young people we are not alone"

"Por que nos estan siguiendo?"

"Why are they following us?"

Despues de los primeros minutos de la operacion, el avion de la
Fuerza Aerea Mexicana, no pudo continuar el seguimiento a los
Objetos Voladores No Identificados ya que el combustible
comenzaba a agotarse, obligando con ello a terminar la mision.
Grande seria la sorpresa del grupo de militares cuando se
percataron con sus instrumentos que dos objetos aparentemente
comenzaron a seguirlos cuando en el audio escuchamos una voz que
dice: Por que nos estan siguiendo?..."; dando con esto mayor
misterio al evento.

After a few more minutes of flying, the Mexican Air Force plane
could not continue the monitoring and pursuit of the
unidentified flying objects because the fuel began to run out,
obliging the crew to bring the mission to an end.

It was a huge surprise to the crew men when they noticed - with
their instruments - that two of the objects apparently continued
flying with them, when in the audio we hear a crew member say:

"Why are they following us?"


End of Part II

-----

Thank you all for your patience. More shortly.

John Velez









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                       Check The UFO UpDates Archive!

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:51:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:38:39 -0400
Subject: Check The UFO UpDates Archive!


Hello All,

For anybody who is following developments in the Mexico case...
The fascinating transcript of Jaime Maussan's interviews with
three of the crew members who were part of the mission that
encountered the UFOs is posted at the UFO UpDates archive but
for some reason it never made it to my mailbox.

Check the archive from time to time and compare the posts that
are listed there with the ones arriving in your mailbox at home.
It is worth your while to do so as this instance proved to be
for me. If not for checking the archives, I would have missed an
important document in the ongoing developments of this most
interesting incident.

Thank you Santiago for translating and posting the interviews.
They are genuinely enlightening and revealing. Great work thus
far on your part in getting information about the details of
this case out to the public in a timely fashion.

Brenda Denzler: I hope you paid close attention to the testimony
of the crew. All of them highly trained and professional
military people. I stand by my original (albeit speculative)
assessment of the behavior of the UFOs. As it turns out my
initial 'read' on the actions of the UFOs is identical to the
assessments of the UFOs' behavior by the crew who was there at
the time. I will allow the testimony of this experienced air-
crew to stand as my response to your post.

Again, Santiago... great job man, keep it up. ;)


Regards,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                 Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:07:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:52:43 -0400
Subject: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04


These are the statements made by Alberto Hernandez Unzon
yesterday, during an interview on television about the Mexican
Air Force UFO case.

Engineer in Geophysics Alberto Hernandez is sub-manager of the
National Meteorological Services, Mexico's official
meteorological center. He is also a Member of the Scientific
Advisory Comitee of the National System for Civil Protection,
and Member of the Hurricane Committee of the Worldwide
Meteorological Association.


Question: Alberto, you made the National Meteorological Service's
complete study of the March 5, 2004 meteorological conditions
over the Campeche area. What are the results?

Answer: According to the satellite images, the conditions
registered in the observatories and the satellite RADAR images,
there were stable conditions in the entire Campeche zone. In the
specific area of interest in this issue, there were cloud
formations and some stratus clouds that are stable conditions for
this season.

There were no rains registered and the cloud type was very
stable as we can see in these satellite images and the Air Force
video.

Question: There have been some statements pointing that there
were flash-lightning conditions in the area at that time. What
were the conditions at that time?

Answer: Meteorologically speaking, a lightning flash is of a
short duration and short intensity. That's the basic definition.
We have all witnessed an electrical storm at sometime. Special
conditions are required for an electrical storm - big, vertical
clouds and a completely unstable atmosphere, ionization in the
atmosphere and the meteorological systems that create that type
of cloud.

Question: That means that the meteorological conditions were not
suitable for lightning that day over Campeche and therefore
contradicts what the UNAM scientists claimed in their report?

Answer: Yes. On March 5, we were entering into the final stage
of the winter season. The meteorological conditions in this
season are of cold fronts but that day in particular there were
none present. What we had were the type of clouds that do not
cause the flash phenomena.

Question: Did the scientists from the UNAM approach the National
Meteorological Services to request the meteorological conditions
over Campeche to support their theory?

Answer: No, they have never approached us at any time. If they
are talking about a meteorological phenomena at that location,
they should have met with us at the National Meteorological
Services to obtain the meteorological conditions just like your
team, as well as journalists did.

There were no weather ballons sent up in that area.

Question: What's the duration of a flash of lightning.

Answer: A flash lasts microseconds. We cannot talk even of one
or two seconds because it's just a single discharge. To say that
these lights on the video are ball lighting or electrical sparks
is nonsense.

I repeat, that day there were no meteorological conditions for
flash or ball lightning in the entire Campeche area. The clouds
must have been at approximately 7 kilometers high therefore what
we see are stable stratus cloud formations.

Question: What could we be seeing here in this video.

Answer: If this is an optical phenomenon it cannot be refered to
Meteorology. It is not a photo meteor, it is not a litho meteor.
They are not ice crystals nor a St. Elmo's fire. Those are all
meteorological phenomena. And this is not a mirage phenomena.

In conclusion, we do not have an explanation to this phenomena.
There are satellites Aqua and Terra and we can request NASA to
send us images of that day to continue this study and get more
information to try to find out what could have happened that
day.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                           Ottawa Ontario 05-17-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:15:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:55:23 -0400
Subject: Ottawa Ontario 05-17-04


Ottawa, Ontario
Date: May 17, 2004
Time: Approx: 8:30 p.m.

Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 1
Shape of objects: varied

Full Description of event/sighting: As my boyfriend and I were
on our way home from work, I looked up and noticed what appeared
to be a plane about to land at the nearby airport. It was V-
shaped with plenty of bright lights and was very close to the
ground. As we drove closer, the object appeared to change shape
from a V to an oval shape. It also picked up speed and started
travelling in the same direction that we were going (east) and
by this time it appeared to be quite far off.

I wasn't sure if I was seeing things right - I thought perhaps
that these lights were a reflection on the windshield or
something but my boyfriend verified what I saw. I was still
doubting what I was seeing so I stuck my head out the window
because I wanted to see the object with my bare eyes. As we
were turning into our driveway, the flying object seemed to stop
abruptly and then started to approach out direction (west) and
as it was doing so, got much closer to the ground (I'm not sure
how low). We got out of the car and stood at the end of the
driveway to watch to see where it was going. It hovered and its
pattern of lights were changing now from random and extremely
fast flashing to 5 bright white lights.

It was really hard to tell how far away the object was at this
point but we both new that it was a lot closer than before. It
did not appear that the lights were attached by any one object;
rather, it was as though they were together in a group
formation. As it was hovering it was "pacing" north and south
very slowly. As we walked closer to the door a red/pink light
appeared and it seemed as though it were trying to hide from our
sight now. Then as we were walking in the door, it hovered back
into our view. I absolutely could not believe what i was
seeing. My boyfriend's witnessing to it was the same as mine.

It just so happened that as we immediately turned on the TV in
our room, a program came on television that was about UFO
sightings. It was too odd to be a coincidence. Has anyone else
had an experience like my boyfriend and I have had?

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                             Gers France 1973/74

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:56:56 -0400
Subject: Gers France 1973/74


Gers, France

Date:  1973 or 1974
Time: 8:00 - 8:15 a.m.

Duration of event: about 5 to 10 minutes
Location of event: National Road 124

Number of witnesses: 2
Number of ojects: 1
Shape of object: Orange glowing with defined contour.
Complete description of event: It was in 1973 or 1974 and I was
9 or 10 years old. It was around 8 or 8:15 in the morning and
my dad was driving me to school like he did every morning then.

Our itinirary started by taking a small road, then a highway and
it took about 15 to 20 minutes to cover 12 or 13 km. My father
drives slowly, more so when he just started the car's diesel
engine.

So we were on our way but after 2 or 3 kms he pointed out to me
an object that I couldn't see clearly because my line of vision
was not at the right angle. He seemed very surprised by what he
was seeing and in fact he was asking me if I was seeing the same
thing he did. His vision was not as good as mine and maybe he
was hoping I could identify the object correctly. We were going
down a little valley and soon we'd loose sight of the object.
That's when he sped up to get passed this little valley, so we
could get a closer look at the object.

That's when I saw the object properly. It was a sphere, orange
is colour, that looked very much like the sun when we can watch
it without being blinded. Of course it wasn't the sun. Everybody
knows the sun rises east. This was south of us. It was hovering,
as if it was suspended to an invisible line in the air. Under it
there was a simple field, nothing special. A hedge, a few poles
and power lines but nothing more. No high tension line, no
transformer.

My father stopped the car on the side of the road and went to
the trunk to retrieve his camera. He used it for his job and it
contained black and white film. I also got out of the car to see
this ball without having the windshield in between. I was rather
excited and nervous, like all kids this age. If I had been alone
when I saw it, my father would never have believed me. Now it
was different, he was with me when we saw it and he saw it
first.

The sphere's bottom was paler in colour, as if we'd fill a
transparent ball with orange and white paint and the two colours
didn't mix well. It gave an impression of changing in colour,
 it was difficult to determine the exact colour. Bad luck, the
time it took my father to take out the camera and take the cap
off the lens, the sphere was gone.

It happened so fast that we don't know if it took off vertically
instantly or if it just faded out but I saw an vertical line in
my eye, sort of like an impression on the retina. The line
seemed to lean slightly to the right, so eastern direction, but
it could have been perfectly vertical. It was not a line of
smoke or steam or light but something difficult to define or
explain, as if the sky opened up and took away the ball away
then closed up again. It was really a weird feeling. Anyway the
vehicles we know of, they have to deal with gravity, thus
powerful acceleration that is visible to the naked eye. This
went off like a ball, no visible acceleration. It was gone
instantly.

Despite my insistance to go and report this at the police
station, hence not going to school that day - I was only ten but
I wasn't crazy :-) - my father refused and explained to me that
other drivers from both directions on RN124 road must have seen
it too and they would report it to the police. He was afraid
they'd think him crazy or worst, a drunk, if he told them what
we saw. .

Even after this experience he is still a skeptic in all regards.
He's anti-religion too, he says that it's invented by men to
control other people. When I talk about our sighting he says
that we should stay cautious about what we saw.

He can't deny what we saw! What does he mean "cautious"? Not to
talk about it? To not associate it to a ufo? He doesn't want to
talk about it in front of other people. Even when we're alone he
avoids the subject.

Since then I"ve been searching, reading archives and trying to
understand what this could have been. The internet has allowed
me to contact people interested by the subject. Before that I
didn't know who to talk to.

I know more about the subject now but more questions arised!
Reports, pictures, videos are piling up but nothing gets solved.

Have a good week.

Thank you to the person for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                   Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:59:31 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:00:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Hall


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:37:58 -0700
>Subject: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

>Source: Wired.com

>http://www.wired.com/news/rants/0,2350,63489,00.html

>05-17-04

>Name: Guillermo Portales (guillportales.nul)
>Subject: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

>People who are not aware of the current political crisis in
>Mexico will unfortunately be deceived by this staged
>performance, which further embarrasses our country in the eyes
>of the world ("Mexican Air Force Films UFOs," May 12, 2004). The
>federal government of Mexico has outdone itself by doing the
>most ridiculous PR stunt in the history of the modern world, by
>attempting (unsuccessfully at least in Mexico) to distract
>public attention from the terrible corruption scandals that are
>plaguing the country and have finally crushed people's faith in
>our government system.

>All UFO researchers who have been given false hopes by this
>story need to blame one man only, President Vicente Fox, in
>reality instructed by his wife Marta Sahagun to perform the
>wildest and most embarrassing political fiascoes of the last 100
>years of Mexican history. Our whole country is sinking quickly
>politically, socially and economically. Who knows what they'll
>come up with next instead of focusing on fixing our real
>problems.


Frank,

Pardon me all to hell, but just what do you base this rather
wild and off-the-wall claim on? What is your evidence?

 - Dick







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                  Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:02:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:01:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered - Hall


>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:40:45 +0200
>Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:31:17 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered

>>>From: Terry Blanton <blantont.nul>
>>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 13:58:06 -0400
>>>Subject: Cold Fusion Advocate Murdered

>>>I deeply regret to announce that Eugene Mallove is dead.
>>>Apparently, he was murdered yesterday. I have few details, but
>>>he was killed in a dispute over rental property.

>>This is dreadful news indeed!

>>This weekend I read in 'Popular Science' (June 2004, page 53)
>>about another cold fusion experiment, this one by physicist Rusi
>>Taleyarkhan and colleagues, that has created much excitement in
>>the scientific community. Such a potentially important discovery
>>as Taleyarkhan's would not only solve our energy needs but help
>>bring about world peace and change the world for the better.

>Taleyarkhan says his experiment is hot fusion and many cold
>fusioneers thinks so. However, Taleyarkhan's critics say, he has
>got his neutron detector's calibration wrong, which would
>effectively mean, neutron and tritium yields don't match. From
>gaseous phase fusion, it is expected that the neutron and the
>tritium channels are equally strong represented (50-50). In cold
>fusion, the neutron channel is also weaker than the tritium
>channel, but both are weakend as Helium-4 is preferred as D-D
>fusion product. This, off course, is totally at odds with
>established nuclear physics!

>Hannes (still no physicist ;)


And the relevance of this to UFOs?

 - Dick








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

               Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:02:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:01:00 -0700
>Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component

>>From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component

>>a) An electric rock for people who [like] them.
>>b) A self cooking potato.
>>c) Some kid having fun.

Hi, Larry, Listfolk,

My ever vigilant friend and colleague, Chris Aubeck, passed
these links on to me, in regard to this thread, with the
comment, "I could be wrong, but you never know....."

[Watch for URL wrap]

http://www.safehomeproducts.com/SHP/SF/Safe_Lighting.asp#Glowstone

http://www.ccl-light.com/docs/land/hires/rock-plug.html

http://www.solargoods.com/docs/acces_pt_glowstone.shtml


Best,

Rod Brock


=====
THE MAGONIA EXCHANGE LIST
Collecting and sharing accounts
of anomalous aerial phenomena
from antiquity up to 1947.
http://nocturnal_lights.tripod.com/magoniax
http://anomalies.bravepages.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                         North Vancouver - 05-16-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:58:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:17:45 -0400
Subject: North Vancouver - 05-16-04


North Vancouver

Date:  May 16, 2004
Time:  Varies

Hi Brian, have been seeing those mysterious lights every night
that its clear and so far have found about a dozen that I can
see from my window. I get a lot a glare from the city lights and
they are about the brightest lights in the sky. I've been seeing
lights appear and disappear over Seymour Mtn. nearly every night
so last night right after sunset aimed my camera over there.
Just got it set up when I saw a large streak of what looked like
fire appear in the sky over Grouse Mtn. It was about twice the
height of Grouse and I didn't see any object at the head of it.
Just a bright yellow streak of what looked like fire with drips
coming off the bottom of the flames.

Can't think of proper way to describe it. Sort of like throwing
burning gasoline. Appeared just above summit and disappeared
above the bottom of the ski run. Time was 21:30 still quite a
bit of light in the sky.

21:52 - Camera picked up a white light moving east just over
Seymour, I assumed it was a small plane but was unable to see it
with either pair of binoculars. I zoomed in with the camera but
was unable to see any fuselage behind the light even though it
was still fairly light and I should have been able to see
something.

22:03 - Camera picked up what appeared to be a similar light
approaching Seymour Mtn. light stopped just above the summit.
Unable to see it through binoculars. I zoomed in with the camera
and it looked like those other mysterious lights. Object began
moving slowly eastward just above mountains in half and hour it
was over Indian Arm and at one hour over Heritage Mountain north
of Port Moody. I stopped tracking at that point.

02:00 - Was just scanning the sky with the camera, came across
what looked like three stars in perfect triangle all equal in
size and brightness. I tried zooming in on each of them and they
all appeared to look like luminous slowly pulsing pearls, quite
pretty actually. They didn't appear to be very far away as they
filled the screen right away while the starts around them were
hardly magnified at all. I don't know if they were connected to
anything as I couldn't see anything except blackness around
them. I could see faint stars all around but nothing showed
between them. They were about 80 degrees overhead and just
 slightly to the NW of my location. Was looking at a star chart
and Virgo looks somewhat similar but does not appear to be quite
the same shape.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:30:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:20:43 -0400
Subject: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer


Source: Uselessknowledge.com

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/may087.html

05-18-04


Abduct My Wallet: Confessions of a UFO Hoaxer

By Lee Shargel

The Aliens are coming! The Aliens are coming! Folks don't
believe it. The only aliens that are coming are sneaking under a
fence somewhere along the Texas border. How can I be so sure?
Well, for one thing we've caught a few of them and they don't
have tentacles, ray guns or flying saucers. What they do have is
bad breath, bad directions and a pocket full of jallopenos.
Sorry, no mystery here.

In 1996, I wrote a science fiction novel entitled "Voice in the
Mirror." It was a fictional story about the discovery of life on
another planet. The other planet was Earth. Yes, they discovered
us. Now that's a switch. In my pursuit to find a publisher, I
found that I was gathering enough rejection slips to wallpaper
my house. Since, my wife felt that the rejection slip pattern
did not fit the decor, I decided it was time for a different
approach to this publising game. So, Doctor Lee Shargel, Top
Secret NASA scientist was born.

I decided that the best way to get the book published was to
make the slightest inference that it just might be real. Lo and
behold, the New Age publishers were beating down my door. I
secured a publisher and a nice (if not small) advance check. I
was ready to meet the world as a fictional Top Secret NASA
scientist and holder of a PhD in Egyptian Quantum Mechanics.
(That degree was made up in a pinch, but it, too, worked) I got
an agent and a manager who were only to eager to cash in on the
UFO craze. But first it required a plan.

I was booked into a UFO convention in Philadelphia were I
presented photos of the actual spacship that had crashed in
Roswell, New Mexico. I blew them away with showmanship and P.T.
Barnum hucksterisms. And I'll be darned, it worked. I thought,
"Hey, there's money to be mined in these Black Hills of Alien
Wonder." Note: Around this time our little blue planet had a
celestial visitor named Hale-Bopp. So, thinking I should jump on
the comet bandwagon, I rode the tail of this comet all the way
to the bank and stopped off briefly for a two hour stint on Art
Bell's Coast to Coast radio broadcast where I stated with a sci-
fi preface that a "Companion" was following the comet. This
created quite a stir and unbeknownst to me then, was heard by a
small group of people in San Diego, who called themselves,
Heaven's Gate. I was invited to be the guest speaker at the
International UFO Congress's annual meeting held in Laughlin,
Nevada. There I would bring the audience to tears with my tales
of abductions, governemnt conspiracies, photos of flying saucers
(created in Hollywood of all places) Dolphinoid Aliens (Yeah
that was one of my best) and a little piece of alien spacecraft.
I saw first hand how these Alien Carnival barkers were picking
the pockets (just as I was unashamedly doing at the time) of the
thousands of attendees that travelled from all over the world
and beyond, (Hey, you never know) to have their ears tickled by
speculation and out right lies. As far as I was concerned, this
was the height of entertainment. Everything was going fine until
it was discovered that I was encroaching on the territory and
the profits of this alien mafia.

I was accosted by the UFO congressional leadership, (who voted
for these BOZOS anyway?) who threatened my very existence unless
I was to cease and desist from this foul game I was playing.
They had this turf covered and there was no room for the likes
of me. Oh, unless I wanted to share the profits of my alien
gotten gain. I refused and was banished to Bogeyland. (That's
internet Hell in case you were wondering.)

And so as they say, the rest is history. I was cast into the
abyss of the remainder pile at my local bookstore, forced to
tolerate the myriad of lies written about me and posted on the
internet and finally suffered the greatest of humilations, my
publisher took the money and ran! Well, I rebounded in cool New
York style. (I am from the Bronx!) I began writing magazine
articles and screenplays again. I started a feature film
company, FilmWorks LSD ("Indie Filmmaking - It's a Trip!") and I
have a new book coming out that has absolutely nothing to do
with aliens or the pickpockets that represent them. Now, Ain't
that America?








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                    UFOs Modernity & The Laboratory World

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:22:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:28:07 -0400
Subject: UFOs Modernity & The Laboratory World


Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:47:50 -0700
From: T. Peter Park <tpeterpark.nul>
  To: forteana.nul
Subj: UFOs, Modernity, and the "Laboratory World" - a
      postmodernist probe


UFOs, Modernity, And The "Laboratory World": A Postmodernist Probe
By
T. Peter Park <tpeterpark.nul>

Do alien abduction stories reflect fear of a sterile,
streamlined, regimented metal-and-plastic technological
"Laboratory World"?

So-called "postmodernism" or "postmodern theory," as "done" by
French writers like Michel Foucault, Jacques Derrida, Jascques
Lacan, Roland Barthes, Jean Baudrillard, Jean-Fran=E7ois Lyotard,
and their American followers and admirers (Richard Rorty,
Stanley Fish), has often been dismissed as an ephemeral academic
fad. Still, even if it is indeed just a passing "highbrow"
fashion, it may yet point to a widespread real sense that
"modernity" as known for the last couple of centuries may be
losing much of its appeal and credibility.

The increasing societal and cultural popularity and visibility
of parapsychology, "Forteanism," and "New Age" ideas may be one
sign of this broader "postmodern syndrome." The vogue of
parapsychology, alternative medicine, UFO's, astrology,
"channeling," and other "Fortean," occult, and "New Age" beliefs
and practices are often seen as reflecting a growing
disillusionment with science and technology, the main pillars of
the "modern" outlook inaugurated by Bacon, Galileo, Descartes,
and Newton. They express a growing feeling that conventional,
"mainstream," or "Establishment" science, medicine, and
technology may not be as omniscient or benign as we used to
think a generation or two ago. They reflect fear and anxiety
about nuclear warfare, about pollution and destruction of our
environment, about loss of control over our bodies and our
health. They also express the fear that we may be losing our
vitality, spontaneity, joy of living, and very humanity in a
sterile, streamlined, regimented, totally technologized and
mechanized world converted into one vast laboratory or factory.
This fear of a glass-and-steel metal-and-plastic "Laboratory
World" is vividly reflected in UFO abduction stories.

Starting with Brazilian farmer Ant=F4nio Villas-Boas' 1957
seduction by a saucer-borne space-girl and New England couple
Barney & Betty Hill's 1961 "Interrupted Journey," thousands of
men, women, and children throughout the world have claimed to
have been abducted aboard UFO's by alien humanoids for
frightening, traumatic medical and reproductive experiments and
rape-like forcible sexual encounters. Many abductees claim to
have been forced to participate in a breeding program to produce
human-alien hybrids. The UFO environment, and the behavior of
the alien captors, have usually been described as "high-tech,"
sterile, impersonal, and laboratory-like. The aliens themselves
have been portrayed as cold, emotionless, briskly efficient,
remorselessly business-like, even robot-like, in keeping with
their bleak, sterile, streamlined, laboratory- or hospital-like
surroundings. These abduction claims and alleged breeding
programs have been widely publicized in popular books like Budd
Hopkins' Missing Time (1982) and Intruders (1987), Whitley
Strieber's Communion (1987),Transformation (1988), and
Confirmation (1998), David M. Jacobs' Secret Life (1992) and The
Threat (1998), Kenneth Ring's The Omega Project (1992), and John
E. Mack's Abduction (1994).

Back in 1992, I first read two books discussing "abductions,"
from two very different viewpoints, that both strongly suggested
to me widespread fear and anxiety about the "Laboratory World"
as a possible underlying cause or motif of abduction stories.

One was Secret Life: First-Hand Accounts of UFO Abductionsby
Temple University history professor David M. Jacobs (New York:
Simon & Schuster, 1992) which took a "nuts and bolts" (or "DNA-
and-incubators"!), "scientific materialist" approach,
interpreting UFO's literalistically as humanoid aliens in
spaceships, kidnapping human victims and performing genetic
experiments on them. Prof. Jacob expanded this view a few years
later in The Threat (Simon & Schuster, 1998), where he concluded
that the aliens were abducting humans to breed a hybrid alien-
human race to eventually rule the Earth. The other book I read
in 1992 was The Omega Project: Near-Death Experiences, UFO
Encounters, and Mind at Large by University of Connecticut at
Storrs psychology professor and well-known near-death-experience
investigator Kenneth Ring (New York: William Morrow, 1992), with
an introduction by Whitley Strieber, expressing a "New Age,"
"transpersonalist" perspective, interpreting UFO's and aliens as
telesmic mythic images, "tulpas," or "thought-forms" from the
collective unconscious symbolically expressing our anxieties
about possible global catastrophe and our groping after a new
cultural & spiritual paradigm. These two books taken together
nicely illustrated how two writers with very different world-
views may be agreed that something genuinely weird is going on,
and yet give totally opposed interpretations of just what they
think the phenomenon really is!

David M. Jacobs in Secret Life saw UFO's as starships (or some
sort of high-tech nuts-and- bolts hardware) from another solar
system (or maybe another dimension) manned by flesh-and-blood
humanoids performing a genetic crossbreeding experiments on us
to improve their genetic stock. He thus sided with abductologist
Budd Hopkins, author of Missing Time (1981) and Intruders
(1987), likewise an advocate of the physical-extraterrestrials-
 doing-genetic-experiments hypothesis, as against the more
"spiritually" or "psychically" oriented Whitley Strieber of
Communion (1987), Transformation (1988), and Confirmation
(1998). Jacobs estimated that over 1,000,000 Americans have been
abducted and biologically experimented on in the past few
decades. "We have been invaded," Jacobs proclaimed, warning that
"the aliens have power and technology in advance of ours." I was
a bit surprised not to see Jacobs quote Arthur C. Clarke's
remark that "any technology sufficiently in advance of ours will
seem like magic"! Jacobs explored the phenomenon through
extensive structural analysis of the accounts of hypnotically
regressed abductees. He scrutinized each stage of a typical UFO
abduction, including the most sensational - the often
humiliating and sometimes painful medical examinations, sexual
encounters, and reproductive experiments found in practically
all cases, the frail scrawny listless sickly-looking "wise
babies" shown to some abducted women, and the videos of future
global catastrophes shown by the aliens to some abductees - in
first- hand transcripts of hypnotic regression interviews with
over 60 patients. Jacobs even got himself trained as a hypnotist
so he could better interview abductees.

Professor Jacobs gave an even more sinister spin to his Secret
Life theories a few years later in a sequel, The Threat (New
York: Simon & Schuster, 1998), in which he interpreted the
aliens' secret agenda as conquest of the Earth through alien-
 human hybrids who would rule the rest of us. He analyzed
hypnotically revealed abduction and cross-breeding scenarios as
chillingly suggesting a future where humans would be relegated
to an inferior subject status in a world dominated by aliens.
Analyzing first-person allegedly real-life abduction accounts
bolstered by results from a Roper poll of over 6,000 Americans,
Jacobs tried to answer the question, "If the aliens are real,
why haven't they landed on the White House lawn?" His conclusion
was: (1) the aliens are creating a breed of alien-human hybrids;
(2) the aliens go to remarkable lengths to protect the secrecy
of the breeding program; (3) alien-human hybridization is
squarely at the very center of the abduction program, and not
just a reproductive adjunct; (4) the aliens are in the process
of integrating into our planet, preparing the way for a
hierarchical society of aliens and hybrids ruling ordinary
humans. Jacobs found the secret alien agenda to be profoundly
ominous, and felt it must be confronted - before it is too late
(Though he did not really outline *how* we should "confront" it:
By firing nuclear warheads at flying saucers? By mass arrests
and incarcerations of supposed hybrids walking around among us?
By giving repeated abductees free guns and karate lessons at
Government expense? By forcing all pregnant women suspected of
being abductees to undergo abortions to dispose of their half-
alien fetuses in Government-run fortress-like protected de-
hybridization clinics? Would Jacobs want Bill Clinton - or Al
Gore - or Dubya - to propose such measures in his 2000 State of
the Union address?)

Kenneth Ring's most intriguing suggestion in The Omega Project
was that the aliens in abduction stories among other things
express and symbolize unease at the possibility that we
ourselves are heading for a dehumanized, robot-like, hive-like,
plastic- and metal-encased, "insectile" existence as big-headed
bug-eyed hairless toothless scrawny-bodied grayish-skinned
pallid asexual 90-pound weaklings in a totally artificial and
technological environment who even reproduce in incubators, via
artificial insemination, as in Aldous Huxley's Brave New
World! I think Ring was probably correct here! In fact, I've
long had this same thought myself, reading books like Whitley
Strieber's Communion,Transformation,and Confirmation, Budd
Hopkins' Missing Time and Intruders, and David Jacobs'
Secret Life and The Threat! Abduction stories often sound to
me like dystopian nightmares where we are confronted by what we
are all too afraid of ourselves being on the way to developing
into! To paraphrase Pogo, we've met the aliens and they're us!
Strieber seemed to sense this, and Ring stated it quite
explicitly, but Hopkins and Jacobs seemed to be
literalistically, physicalistically quite oblivious to this
quite obvious possibility! On this hypothesis, in turn,
abduction reports with their genetic experimentation and "wise
babies" imagery might be nightmares symptomatically reflecting a
disturbed relationship with "Gaia"!

David Jacobs, with his insistence that the "Visitors" (as
Whitley Strieber non-committally called the "aliens" in
Communion and Transformation to avoid committing himself to
the extraterrestrial theory) or "Beings" (as Jacobs himself
calls them) must be flesh-and-blood aliens coming in starships
from Zeta Reticuli (the home sun of Barney & Betty Hill's
"Interrupted Journey" aliens according to Marjorie Fish's
analysis of her "star map"), Alpha Centauri, Tau Ceti, Epsilon
Eridani, 61 Cygni, 70 Ophiuchi, or wherever to perform cross-
breeding genetic engineering experiments on us to breed "Wise
Babies," is a true son of the Enlightenment and its Scientific
Materialism. A Freudian or a sociologist of knowledge might even
speculate that Jacobs, as a Jew (judging by his name), might
perhaps be subconsciously motivated by a post-Holocaust Jewish
anxiety about Nazism and memories of Joseph Mengele's fiendish
medical experiments upon Jewish and Gypsy children in Auschwitz!
Jacobs could very easily and obviously be interpreted as
projecting an obsessive nightmare about all Earthlings together
as "Jews" preyed upon by interstellar Joseph Mengeles from Zeta
Reticuli trying to breed a Galactic "Master Race"! Ring
suggested that supposed UFO abduction and medical & sexual
experimentation experiences are collectively generated symbolic
nightmares incorporating a little bit of everybody's favourite
historical and societal horrors from the modern world.

An anti-"Modern", anti-scientific "backlash" against the spectre
of a "Laboratory World" seems to be a valid theme or "subtext"
of the alien abduction "narrative" under any interpretation of
the abduction phenomenon. If the abduction stories are merely
dreams, hallucinations, and delusions inspired by science-
fiction and popular UFO literature, and aggravated by naive
hypnotists manipulating their patients' fantasies into even
closer conformity with popular abduction literature through
leading questions, then the abduction and crossbreeding
scenarios are a simple, straightforward reflection of popular
misgivings over the threat of a sterile, regimented, dehumanized
technological future. If abductions are paranormal events with a
quasi-material aspect generated by "thought-forms" from the
"collective unconscious," they are still straightforward
reflections of popular anxieties about the "Laboratory World."
Finally, if abductions are actual physical interactions with
super-intelligent, technologically advanced but biologically
degenerate and emotionally stunted aliens stealing our vitality
and humanity by kidnapping and cross-breeding with us, they
still provide a vivid, chilling warning of what we ourselves
might become like if we travel too far along their path! Even
then, they also pose the interesting question: if we are indeed
being preyed upon by vitality-starved cosmic vampires forcibly
grabbing our emotions and our DNA to replenish their own
woefully depleted feelings and genes, why are we being
"cosmically mugged" by them at the exact very moment in our own
history when we seem to be in real danger of ourselves traveling
along "their" path?


 -
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice

Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 19

                 Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:05:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:30:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 17:55:34 +0200
>Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:52:10 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>

>>Incidently, if these were plasma objects, there were "cold
>>plasma" because they were warm enough to emit infrared radiation
>>but not hot enough to be visible sources of light. Infrared
>>radiation has a lower energy (per photon) than visible light.


>To Bruce and List,

>I have a French correspondant who tells me that the atmospheric
>re-entry hypothesis is compatible with a body emitting infrared
>light, but no visible light. He says that when a body or plasma
>reaches 700 degres C, it begins to be red in the visible
>spectrum but is already "very luminous at 5 microns", and that
>t could be the case of a satellite or meteor beginning to enter
>the atmosphere. And also when it gets cooler if it leaves the
>atmosphere. So that the Mexican video could well have recorded a
>body making a "cool" entry. I don't believe it, but what would
>say about it?

I don't doubt that a 700C object would be "bright" in the 3.6 -
 5 micron range. But the apparent temperature is only one aspect
of this sighting. Another is the apparent speed of the objects
and an apparently essentially horizontal trajectory at abot
12,000 ft altitude... not compatible with falling meteor
hypothesis.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                      Mexico's FLIR Rep On AF UFO Case

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 00:53:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:18:42 -0400
Subject: Mexico's FLIR Rep On AF UFO Case


As part of the investigation, the FLIR representative for
Mexico, Mr. Gilberto Rocha, was interviewed by Jaime Maussan
regarding the images recorded by the FLIR STAR SAFIRE II aboard
the Mexican Air Force Merlin airplane during the March 5, 2004
incident over the Campeche area.

NOTE: The comments and opinions expresed by Mr. Gilberto Rocha
are his own, based on his experience and knowledge of the FLIR
STAR SAFIRE II operational functions and do not necesarely
represent FLIR Systems, Inc.'s opinion and points of view.

Question: Mr. Rocha, you just have reviewed some images recorded
by the Air Force during an anti-narcotics operation over
Campeche on March 5, 2004. What is your opinion about them?

Answer: These are interesting images because they are not
common. I will try to explain myself. The human eye perceives
certain light frequencies that the sun emits. Beyond these
frequencies the human eye doesn't have the capacity to perceive
those images. The infrared source or the infrared rays can only
be detected with the FLIR or with special cameras that can
detect infrared radiation.

The equipment the Air Force is using has the capacity to detect
visible images and infrared images. The images that we saw from
the Air Force footage correspond to objects that emit
temperature - they are emitting heat and they are emitting
radiation to the exterior and the camera is reading this.

These images may have low resolution because of the distance
that we are measuring, but represent round-shaped objects that
cannot be compared to any known object that we have been looking
for in our air space.

Question: Could these have been any kind of conventional
aircraft?

Answer. No, because conventional aircraft have very well defined
temperature in their turbines and in front where friction is
registered, therefore they could not be seen as rounded lights.

If we haa a closer image of the objects, perhaps we could have a
better definition of the shape of these objects but due to the
information we have, these objects are round-shaped and we
cannot consider them as airplanes.

Question: Any posibility of the objects being a helicopter?

Answer: No, it's the same case: the turbine and blades would be
the point of highest temperature defining the shape of the
helicopter and it would be always a known shape not a round-
shaped object.

Question: If these objects are not any known aircraft what do
you think they are?

Answer: In the strict sense of the word, avoiding any distortion
or confusion, these are objects that fly and we can not identify.

Question: Is it posible that the FLIR could have been giving us
false information, that these high temperature readings were
non-existent?

Answer: Negative, because in the images we are seeing clouds
that have a higher temperature than the ambient average
temperature, and we can see the cloud silhouettes because the
FLIR is detecting their infrared frequency.

The objects that we are seeing are the points of higest
temperature there. Personally, I have never seen anything like
this. My experience with these cameras is completely industrial,
we analyse a whole variety of industrial appliances as well as
for the electrical industry, but for me the case of the Mexican
Air Force is very unusual.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                 Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:01:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:55:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack -


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:19:46 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:11:34 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:42:54 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>>http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5152
278&section=news

>>>Weather May Explain Mexico UFO Stir
>>>Fri 14 May, 2004 23:01

>>>MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - A cluster of mysterious objects that
>>>surrounded a Mexican Air Force plane, alarming the pilots and
>>>sparking a UFO scare, could be a weather phenomenon known as
>>>ball lightning, a scientist said on Friday.

><snip>

>>>"It's a very rare atmospheric phenomenon and it would be very
>>>interesting to be able to analyze all the information these
>>>pilots obtained," he told Reuters.

>>This theory is "great" because it will provide a justifiable
>>impetus for careful investigation of the video.

>>Any ball lightning theorist must make some predictions about
>>what the ball lightning would do and these predictions can be
>>checked against the actual video information. Verifiable proof
>>of ball lightning would be a "prize winning" event.

>>If scientists think this video proves the existence of ball
>>lightning, then they should spend time analyzing it (and not
>>dismiss it as secret US aircraft, balloons, meteors, or high
>>speed pelicans inside plasma balls... or whatever!)

>The skeptics are confounded by this case/video. Some have been
>reduced to arguing about why the video was given to a UFO
>researcher, as opposed to scientists, avoiding any discussion of
>the case or the video altogether. Talk about shutting a lot of
>mouths!

This is the first shot in the "hoax" hypothesis! I recognise
this from the history of the New Zealand sightings of December,
1978. One must learn from history. In that case the chief
skeptic (the only one who pad attention to what was going on)
was,. of course, Phil Klass, and he was "reduced" to suggesting
(in his book, The Public Deceived.... in which he deceived the
public!) that that aircrew knew what they were looking at but
didn't tell the news crew. In other words, allowing the news
crew to go public claiming that the film showed UFOs was
essentially a "hoax" on the part of the crew.

In this case it is tougher for the skeptics because they would
have to argue the sighting was a hoax by a government agency.

>I also hope that in the process of analyzing the video no one
>loses touch with the air-crew report part of it. There are
>indications that the unidentified flying objects recorded are
>under intelligent control. According to the report the events
>unfolded as follows:

>1. UFO spotted by radar operator.

>2. Officials decide to pursue/intercept the unknown. Orders are
>issued and the airplane alters course toward the UFO.

This brings up another issue that I forgot to mention in the
last message I wrote to you. The ground controllers were
involved. Was the ground radar being used at all? There has been
no word I am aware of as to whether or not ground radar was
involved.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                 New UFO sightings in Cabo Rojo Puerto Rico

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:20:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:02:23 -0400
Subject: New UFO sightings in Cabo Rojo Puerto Rico


SOURCE: Proyecto ARGUS
DATE: May 19, 2004


New UFO Sightings In Cabo Rojo

A report has been received that on May 5, 2004, Mr. Aguirre, a
fisherman and local resident of Cabo Rojo, a town in the
southwestern corner of Puerto Rico, reported seeing "strange
lights" entering and leaving the sea and the cliffs near the
famous Cabo Rojo light house late at night. An on-site
inspection revealed that many tourists who visit the site have
experienced odd sensations and certain types of "paranormal
energy" as thought there were something else at the location. It
is well known that UFO skywatches have taken place in the area
and some of them have yielded positive results.

Our survey of the site disclosed that the waters near one of the
cliffs showed evidence of what could be termed remains of
spiritual or witchcraft "trabajos" (artifacts). The height of
another cliff gave us pause, perhaps as well as its magnetism
(sic). What is worth pointing out here is that many people claim
having had unusual experiences in the vicinity of the
lighthouse, giving rise to the belief that this is an area of
intense paranormal activity. It must be made clear that the
light house's beam has been confused with other surrounding
lights, which makes the study of something taking place in the
region even more interesting.

A recent photo of the newly-remodeled Cabo Rojo Lighthouse.

One of the strange lights reported in recent days over the
lighthouse, far above the range of the light issued from the
structure. The object presented signs of movement and
deformation.

For more information:

http://www.reinaldorios.be.tf
Photos credit Prof. Reinaldo Rios
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Jose Martinez Echevarr=EDa (Project Argus)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                               UFOs In Havana

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:02:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:50:10 -0400
Subject: UFOs In Havana


Source: Prensa Latina
Date: May 18, 2004

Havana Residents Claim Having Seen UFO

HAVANA, May 18 (PL) - In the area of EXPOCUBA, a fairground
located in the capital city municipality of Boyeros, several
persons claimed having witnessed the presence of a UFO,
according to an article appearing in the local press.

According to the Juventud Rebelde newspaper, residents of the
site witnessed the descent of an alleged UFO (unidentified
flying object) on Saturday, May 8, without this claim having
been scientifically substantiated.

Witnesses claim that around 10:00 a.m., a small oval-shaped
vessel, silver-colored and with a metallic tail, landed in open
field encircled by trees on the El Pedregal farm, located in the
area of EXPOCUBA southeast of the city of Havana.

"I was tidying the shelves when a bright light came through the
window. It was like a glowing ball with a tail in its lower
section. I showed it to my mother quickly and ran outside to see
where it would fall," said Raul Beltran, 17, who claims having
been at the site until the UFO took off once more. "It lifted
off rather perpendicularly and then left through the palm trees.
It didn't make any noise nor issue any smoke. The only thing I'm
sure of is its size: more or less the size of a pickup truck
tire, or thereabouts."

"When my son showed it to me, I thought it was a kite or a
parachutist, since skydivers drop over EXPOCUBA every so often!
After, as it came down, I realized that it could be nothing of
the sort, since it was smaller and glowed a lot. It looked like
a mirror,"said Odalis, Raul Beltran's mother.

Remigio Sanchez, who works as a warehouseman  at a school not
far from where the incident occurred, claims having seen a light
in the sky almost at the same time as the other spectators. "It
was a powerful glow in the sky, but it was far away so I thought
it was a flare. When I got to Odalis's house -- Raul's mom --
 she told me that a device had landed nearby."

According to witnesses, and as Juventud Rebelde attested when it
visited the site, the grass and small plants at the site where
the UFO landed are somewhat burned, although it is true that the
current drought at the site is causing similar things to happen
at other nearby locations.

It has not been possible to scientifically confirm the presence
of any UFO anywhere in the world. It is true that many people
claim having seen one object or another, but strangely enough,
in none of these cases is any material evidence left behind that
could prove the existence of strange bodies on our planet.

According to Oscar Alvarez Pomares, a specialist in the Science
Office of the Ministry of Science, Technology and the
Environment: "People want to believe that other beings exist in
the universe, although I am not saying that what the
protagonists of this episode saw was untrue."

According to this scientist, there is an Institute for the
Search of Extraterrestrial life in the United States, although
none of its specialists have been able to ascertain the presence
of UFOs on Earth, despite having studied several cases in which
strange vehicles have landed, according to public testimony.

===========================================================

Translation (c) 2004. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic
Ufology. Special thanks to Cristian Quintero, Planeta UFO.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                 Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:50:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:03:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:05:33 -0400
>Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 17:55:34 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Ball Lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:52:10 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Ball lightining Not Saucers Say Mexican Scientists

>>To Bruce and List,

>>I have a French correspondant who tells me that the atmospheric
>>re-entry hypothesis is compatible with a body emitting infrared
>>light, but no visible light. He says that when a body or plasma
>>reaches 700 degres C, it begins to be red in the visible
>>spectrum but is already "very luminous at 5 microns", and that
>>t could be the case of a satellite or meteor beginning to enter
>>the atmosphere. And also when it gets cooler if it leaves the
>>atmosphere. So that the Mexican video could well have recorded a
>>body making a "cool" entry. I don't believe it, but what would
>>say about it?

>I don't doubt that a 700C object would be "bright" in the 3.6 -
> 5 micron range. But the apparent temperature is only one aspect
>of this sighting. Another is the apparent speed of the objects
>and an apparently essentially horizontal trajectory at abot
>12,000 ft altitude... not compatible with falling meteor
>hypothesis.


Bruce and All,

Thank you for your answer.

My French correspondant tells me he is in contact with you, and,
so you know, he has dropped the meteor hypothesis.

I am surprised by this altitude of 12,000 feet.

I noted that the plane was a 10,700 feet, and that the targets
were rather below its horizon - I thought that they were at a
rather lower altitude?

BTW, thank you for all who are doing such a good job on the list:
especially you, Santiago Yturria and John Velez.

It's a really fascinating case.


Gildas Bourdais








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

              Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:44:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:05:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:30:27 -0700
>Subject: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>Source: Uselessknowledge.com

>http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/may087.html

>05-18-04

>Abduct My Wallet: Confessions of a UFO Hoaxer

>By Lee Shargel

>The Aliens are coming! The Aliens are coming! Folks don't
>believe it. The only aliens that are coming are sneaking under a
>fence somewhere along the Texas border. How can I be so sure?
>Well, for one thing we've caught a few of them and they don't
>have tentacles, ray guns or flying saucers. What they do have is
>bad breath, bad directions and a pocket full of jallopenos.
>Sorry, no mystery here.

<snip>

Mr. Shargel is well known to the community, and has been well
known for a number of years. Ufology has survived him as it
survives Andy Roberts and Docca Morty (et al). Moreover, a
person of Mr. Shargel's dodgy morality and sociopathic bigotry
is well served in a milieu of concerned persons whose ufological
concerns are kept alive, at all, by the core reality regarding
UFOs (et al) and by which Mr. Shargel provides huge disservice.
Additionally, his admission of hoax is also admission of fraud
if he made a dime from his enterprising con, and he, among
others, should be dragged to the dock for it.

...Words fail me, Shargel. You are, apparently, beneath respect
and contempt. You can kiss the South end of my North bound self.

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

              Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:04:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:07:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:06:45 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:38:52 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Par1

>>>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:05:34 +0200 (CEST)
>>>Subject: Re: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part 1

>><snip>

>>>I am afraid that what needs to be reviewed is the transcription
>>>from the full, unedited video, or any technical note or report
>>>produced by the Mexican Air Force, if it exists.

>>>What it is being translated (and taken for granted as an
>>>accurate picture of the event) is merely a personal
>>>interpretation of the events, not an official report, which per
>>>se already colours the case. Please be cautious with what you
>>>deduce or infer from this text.

>>Hello VJ, All,

>>This is a _nasty_ accusation that you make about Jaime Maussan's
>>report. If Jaime has been inaccurate or 'creative' in his report
>>of this incident, the onus is on _you_ to publish your evidence
>>for it right along-side of your (demeaning and insulting)
>>accusation.

Hello VJ,

I had written:

>>You have to be ready to back-up accusations (such as the one you
>>have levelled at Maussan about his report) with something
>>'harder' than just your opinion.

>>"Opinions are like sphincters, we all have one and they all
>>stink!"  <g>

You respond:

>Your style is clear!

True! I do not 'mince' my words.

You continue:

>John,

>I just reminded researchers that the information being
>translated comes from a private source, i.e. from an individual
>- someone who is entitled to have their own orientation,
>motivations and beliefs as opposed to the translation of an
>official report or a technical note - not from an official
>source.

>Any objection?

Not in the least. If I 'misread' your meaning, excuse me. This
is e-mail after all and it is often easy to misinterpret/misread
somebody's meaning or intentions. If I am mistaken, I apologise.

>If you want to see accusations or create any stir or problem out
>of something so basic,

Not at all. Just chalk it up to a 'misread' and let's move on.
There was no disrespect intended in the original. I am
justifiably leery about personal attacks on Jaime at this time.
The focus should remain on the material and the testimony, not
Jaime Maussan. In this instance, he is simply a messenger.


Peace,

John Velez










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

               Re: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:21:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:11:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:07:29 -0500
>Subject: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04 Conditions

>These are the statements made by Alberto Hernandez Unzon
>yesterday, during an interview on television about the Mexican
>Air Force UFO case.

>Engineer in Geophysics Alberto Hernandez is sub-manager of the
>National Meteorological Services, Mexico's official
>meteorological center. He is also a Member of the Scientific
>Advisory Comitee of the National System for Civil Protection,
>and Member of the Hurricane Committee of the Worldwide
>Meteorological Association.

>Question: Alberto, you made the National Meteorological Service's
>complete study of the March 5, 2004 meteorological conditions
>over the Campeche area. What are the results?

>Answer: According to the satellite images, the conditions
>registered in the observatories and the satellite RADAR images,
>there were stable conditions in the entire Campeche zone. In the
>specific area of interest in this issue, there were cloud
>formations and some stratus clouds that are stable conditions for
>this season.

>There were no rains registered and the cloud type was very
>stable as we can see in these satellite images and the Air Force
>video.

>Question: There have been some statements pointing that there
>were flash-lightning conditions in the area at that time. What
>were the conditions at that time?

>Answer: Meteorologically speaking, a lightning flash is of a
>short duration and short intensity. That's the basic definition.
>We have all witnessed an electrical storm at sometime. Special
>conditions are required for an electrical storm - big, vertical
>clouds and a completely unstable atmosphere, ionization in the
>atmosphere and the meteorological systems that create that type
>of cloud.

>Question: That means that the meteorological conditions were not
>suitable for lightning that day over Campeche and therefore
>contradicts what the UNAM scientists claimed in their report?

>Answer: Yes. On March 5, we were entering into the final stage
>of the winter season. The meteorological conditions in this
>season are of cold fronts but that day in particular there were
>none present. What we had were the type of clouds that do not
>cause the flash phenomena.

>Question: Did the scientists from the UNAM approach the National
>Meteorological Services to request the meteorological conditions
>over Campeche to support their theory?

>Answer: No, they have never approached us at any time. If they
>are talking about a meteorological phenomena at that location,
>they should have met with us at the National Meteorological
>Services to obtain the meteorological conditions just like your
>team, as well as journalists did.

>There were no weather ballons sent up in that area.

>Question: What's the duration of a flash of lightning.

>Answer: A flash lasts microseconds. We cannot talk even of one
>or two seconds because it's just a single discharge. To say that
>these lights on the video are ball lighting or electrical sparks
>is nonsense.

>I repeat, that day there were no meteorological conditions for
>flash or ball lightning in the entire Campeche area. The clouds
>must have been at approximately 7 kilometers high therefore what
>we see are stable stratus cloud formations.

>Question: What could we be seeing here in this video.

>Answer: If this is an optical phenomenon it cannot be refered to
>Meteorology. It is not a photo meteor, it is not a litho meteor.
>They are not ice crystals nor a St. Elmo's fire. Those are all
>meteorological phenomena. And this is not a mirage phenomena.

Hola Santiago, All,

This is good, substantial, basic research. Kudos to the Mexican
researchers and journalists who are taking the time to check
this thing out thoroughly. As opposed to the "scientists" whose
laziness, knee-jerk reactions and 'armchair' dictums are falling
by the wayside so early on in the proceedings. Public dismissal
of the findings of these 'scientists' is no more than they
deserve for being so lazy - not bothering to check with national
meteorological sources/records - sloppy in their methods and
opinionated based solely on what has become codified pseudo-
 religious scientific dogma.

>In conclusion, we do not have an explanation to this phenomena.
>There are satellites Aqua and Terra and we can request NASA to
>send us images of that day to continue this study and get more
>information to try to find out what could have happened that
>day.

Bloody brilliant! Is anybody working on securing any such
satellite photographs/data?

Questions for anyone on the List:

Does anybody know if there is 'special' recording media/tape
used to record the images captured by the FLIR? If so, does
anyone know who the manufacturer is? Is it recorded direct to CD
or does it go right to tape? Any assistance in getting this info
would be greatly appreciated.

Nice work Mexican researchers! Keep up the good work.


Regards,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                           Filers Files #22 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:54:55 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:19:56 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #22 - 2004


Filers Files #22 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
VP of Skywatch International Ltd.
May 19, 2004
Webmaster: Chuck Warren

If photos don't show up in email, try:

www.georgefiler.com/ "Weekly files" Views

More Evidence for Life on Mars

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the
evidence. Insensibly, one begins to twist the facts to suit
theories, instead of theories to suit facts. It biases the
judgment." -Sherlock Holmes-

This weeks files discuss: Increased Solar Brightness and
Warming, the Martian Meteorite EETA 79001 Indicates Life, Mars -
- Bunny Appears to Move, Possible Bunker Found on Mars, Oil
Crisis Looming. Sightings include New York - Triangular Shaped
Lights, New Jersey -- Four See UFO, Pennsylvania - Light,
Maryland - Large Flying Triangle, Florida -- Flying Triangle
Craft Disappears, IIlinois - Flying Triangle, Missouri - UFO
Sighted By Two, Colorado - Stars Move in Perfect Formation,
 Oregon - Sphere Cluster Release's Smaller Objects, California -
- More UFOs Videotaped, Canada - Seven Fast Objects, Mexico's
DoD Releases UFO Video and Evidence, Panama -Bright light in the
Sky, and in Thailand - Hundreds of Floating Stars


Increased Solar Brightness and Warming

The Sun may have increased in brightness over the last couple of
decades as summarized in the following press release: Since the
late 1970s, the amount of solar radiation the Sun emits during
times of quiet sunspot activity has increased by nearly .05
percent per decade, according to the study. =E2=80=9CThis trend is
important because, if sustained over many decades, it could
cause significant climate change,=E2=80=9D said Willson, a researcher
affiliated with NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies and the
Earth Institute at Columbia University. =E2=80=9CHistorical records
of solar activity indicate that solar radiation has been
increasing since the late 19th century,=E2=80=9D says Willson. =E2=80=9CIf a=

trend comparable to the one found in this study persisted during
the 20th century it would have provided a significant component
of the global warming.

Editor: The warming trend on the Earth appears to be caused by
the gradual warming of the sun.


Mars - Once Had Life

This meteorite, which originally weighed nearly 8 kilograms,
provided the first strong proof that meteorites could come from
Mars. EETA 79001 is an achondrite meteorite, a basalt lava rock
nearly indistinguishable from many Earth rocks. This picture
shows a sawn face of this fine-grained gray rock (the vertical
stripes are saw marks). The black patches in the rock are melted
rock =E2=80=94 glass =E2=80=94 formed when a large meteorite hit Mars near=

the rock. This meteorite impact probably threw EETA 79001 off
Mars and on its way to Antarctica on Earth. The black glass
contains traces of martian atmosphere gases. On August 7, 1996,
President Clinton and NASA announced to the world evidence of
fossil bacteria and organic material had been found on ALH
84001, a meteorite discovered in Antarctica that was believed to
have come originally from Mars. []


Martian Meteorite EETA 79001

Another meteorite found in Antarctica, EETA 79001 also indicates
life existed on Mars in relatively recent history. The
achondrite meteorite thought to be only 175 million years old
was blasted off Mars 600,000 years ago, indicating that life
existed on Mars in the relatively recent past. The black
patches in the rock are melted rock =E2=80=94 glass =E2=80=94 formed when a=

large meteorite hit Mars near the rock and the impact probably
threw EETA 79001 off Mars and sent it on its way to Antarctica.
The black glass contains traces of martian atmosphere gases.

This picture shows a sawn face of this fine-grained gray rock
(the vertical stripes are saw marks). Rocks as young as the SNC
meteorites had to have formed on a geologically active planet,
and the most likely planet was Mars. The Mariner 9 and Viking
Orbiter images had shown that Mars has enormous volcanos, up to
3 times as tall as Mauna Kea in Hawaii.


Mars -- Bunny Appears to Move

Last week we carried a story and photo of a small white cotton
object that was imaged by the Mars Rover. Gary Gene Ford a
graduate student in Mechanical and Aerodynamical Engineering
writes, "Lift and drag - both important in convecting light
weight objects - are related by (Attitude dependent) Drag and
Lift Coefficients, Cd and Cl, respectively, which multiply
(1/2)(Rho)(speed)^2, and then times exposed area A.

Now Rho is Air MASS DENSITY, which in the absence of micro and
nano particle dusts in the air (it occurs once in a while but
NOT often) of MARS, is extremely LOW, something like Earth Air
at 120,000 feet elevation - the Molecular Weight of Mars Air is
HIGHER than the 29 of Earth, due to Mars Air's 95% constitution
as Carbon Dioxide, with molecular weight 44, thus slightly
compensating for the approximately 1% or less Pressure at
Surface of Mars Air, compared to 1 bar of Earth Air at Sea
Level), giving a LOW LOW value at "low speed" for the fluid
factor (1/2)rho.v^2. To lift an Object, the fluid factor must be
larger than the Weight of the Object divided by its external
surface Area. in fact typically CONSIDERABLY LARGER than its
Weight per its unit exposed surface area.

This only obtains for very 'fluffy objects' (Air viscosity also
helps, as with Dandelion 'Puff' seeds), or else with objects of
very small size. Anything NOT very 'fluffy', of low mass
density hence weight density, and of small size IS UNLIKELY TO
BE BLOWN ANYWHERE in the Extant Super low Mass Density Martian
Air! THUS, the Rabbit must either be (1) Self Moving, (2) Moved
by something Self Moving (a stream of brine flowing downhill
would be a possibility), or (3) Fluffy and caught in a massive,
dust air mass density enhanced, high speed, Martian DUST STORM!
Thanks to Gary Gene Ford, Gary swimp.nul
http://members.shaw.ca/swimp/plasma.html


Mars - Possible Bunker Found?

Sam Veazey writes, "I have been researching the images from the
Spirit Rover and have discovered a group of objects that are
truely remarkable." There is what appears to be a large bunker
with what may be an observatory rising from a domed roof. There
is also what might be a transportation device that is located
just above and to the left of the bunker. At the right end of
the structure is what could be the entrance in the shape of an
archway. Thanks to Sam Veazey in White Plains, Georgia. []
Thanks to JPL for this photo that can be found at:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/101/2P135342508EFF2900P2378L7=
M1.JPG

Editor's Note: Sam Veazey has found a concrete rectangle
appearing object just below the crest of the hill that is not
normally found in nature. Other similar objects with symbols and
faces have been found. We ask for comments from photographic
experts. That bunker like object looks very different from most
of the other rocks, so I suggest we drill a hole in it. What
possible reasons could NASA have for spending millions going to
Mars without carrying a couple pounds of equipment to test for
life?


Oil Crisis Looming Will Dwarf 1973

CBS MarketWatch columnist Paul By Paul Erdman writes, "As the
price of crude oil keeps rising toward $40 a barrel and beyond,
it has become increasingly clear that the world is heading
toward a major oil crisis -- in terms of both price and supply -
- that will dwarf that of 1973. There can be no doubt that the
fall of the House of Saud would thrust the entire Western world
into an energy crisis of unprecedented proportions. For many of
us who have been observers of global energy trends for what now
amounts to decades, this has become not a matter of "if" but
rather one of "when." We are facing a convergence of three
forces that will have a potentially explosive effect on the
market for crude oil. They are:

1. A growing geopolitical crisis in the Middle East, which is
now threatening to spread beyond Iraq to Saudi Arabia, the
world's largest producer and exporter of crude oil.

2. A surge in global demand for energy and particularly crude
oil and its derivatives, fueled by the recovery of both the
American and Japanese economies and the unprecedented growth of
China, which has just replaced Japan as the world's second
largest consumer of crude oil.

3. A structural deterioration of the world's oil supply. What is
involved here is nothing short of an imminent peaking out of
production of crude oil on a global basis -- known by energy
industry insiders as "Hubbert's Peak" -- which would turn a
cyclical supply/demand crisis into a structural energy crisis of
unprecedented proportions. (snip)

Editor's Note: This data has been available to the government
for years and is part of the reason for the invasion of Iraq.
 The impending shortage of oil may stop the flow of food to your
local grocery store. World economics are at a critical point.


New York - Triangular Shaped Lights

ROME -- Three witnesses saw lights in the shape of a flying
triangle traveling at a constant speed high in the night sky on
May 9, 2004, at 10:45 PM. The lights were white and did not
waver in position nor did they blink as they traveled due south
in a very clear sky. It was a very large object that was
witnessed by two professionals and one student. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com


New Jersey -- Four See UFO

FREEHOLD -- There was four observers on the porch just enjoying
the night on May 10, 2004, at 10:40 PM., when the boyfriend saw
it first and jokingly said "Look a UFO!" The observer states,
"We all looked up and realized, oh my God what else could it be
because we saw an orange circle and it wasn't moving steadily,
it was kind of wobbling like a Frisbee that you threw." But the
object stayed in the air much longer than that, and instead of
coming down like a Frisbee would it simply vanished into the
clouds. About two minutes later the second one appeared. This
one seemed to be flying sideways and it to disappeared within
seconds. What else could it have been? Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director www.UFOCenter.com


Pennsylvania - Light

GIBSONIA -- While viewing Venus on May 8, 2004, at 11:30 PM, off
to the left and higher, there appeared at first to be a shooting
star. It was a very bright white light with no tail. It started
in an arc coming down in a 45 degree angle, and then began to
zigzag. The object stopped in the trees for at least 20 seconds
so the witness went to get his camera but upon returning it was
gone. The event lasted about two minutes. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com


Maryland - Large Flying Triangle

KNOXVILLE -- The observers saw a large flying triangle of three
star-like lights moving noiselessly, slowly, and smoothly east
across the sky on May 8, 2004, at 11:40 PM. The object moved in
an arc across the sky of about 50 degrees, with each light
quickly fading individually as it passed a certain star near
Mars. The object occluded stars when it passed over them, but
later when we looked for further occlusion none was observed.
Our assumption was that we saw a formation of planes. We are on
Dulles Airport flight path and are use to seeing these aircraft
and this was not Dulles traffic. The time and rural location
would have made any sound audible. There was none. Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com


North Carolina -- Man Reports UFO Sighting

ROWAN - Jessie Burchette of the Salisbury Post reports,
"They're not sure whether it had a red tail, but Arnold and Lena
Crook have spent the last three nights watching a dancing
unidentified flying object. "It's a good ways up there, way
high up in the sky and a long distance off," said Crook, a
former Granite Quarry alderman. The far off encounter started
Monday night when he went outside his home at 305 N. Oak St. to
smoke a cigarette. Looking to the southeast, he saw a light that
"kind of danced around." He called to his wife to come out and
take a look at "a dancing star." "She said it was an airplane,"
said Arnold. "It's not an airplane, just wait and watch it jump
around," he assured her. "It" did a circle, and a square and
just kept kind of dancing. She was quickly convinced "it"
wasn't an airplane. Tuesday night, Lena joined Arnold to check
the sky, and there "it" was, just jumping around. Wednesday
night, they were back out and "it" had grown or had friends.
"Last night it was several lights, kind of like a big old box,"
said Arnold. Lena kept pointing out a red tail, but Arnold
disagreed. "I didn't see a tail," he said. They hadn't thought
much about it, or told anyone until Thursday. (snip) Thanks to
the Salisbury Post


Florida -- Flying Triangle Craft Disappears!

FT .LAUDERDALE BEACH -- At 3:35 PM, while on Pompano Beach we
watched a black triangle shaped object moving at high altitude
on May 8, 2004. We first thought it was a large military
aircraft, but the closer it came it was apparent that it was
huge in size and dwarfed commercial airliners flying into Ft.
Lauderdale/Miami Airports. We could see the contrail over the
Atlantic Ocean that was huge circles. The craft approaching land
went into a partial cloud cover, but you could see through the
cloud. We watched to see it come out of the cloud, but it simply
disappeared. We waited and looked around in other directions but
it was gone. Strangely the contrail stopped short of land and
the craft was just gone and the normally busy flight path was
empty of aircraft for at least a hour. The contrail stayed for
30 to 45 minutes. It was bigger than 10-15 commercial jets set
side by side. They would not have covered it, It was flying at
an estimated 35000 feet. I don't know, what it was or why
vanished. There was no sound. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com


IIlinois - Flying Triangle

RUSHVILLE -- A couple went to a friends house to relax around
their camp fire on May 16, 2004, and noticed four falling stars
within about an hours time. Driving home they traveled a country
road and stopped about 2 AM, and noticed a light moving very
slowly across the sky. The witness states, "I pointed at the
lights and asked my girlfiend if she saw them? and she said
"What that triangle?" That's when I saw the third light
following behind forming a triangle. It looked like 3 stars
moving about five miles per hour but they stayed exactly the
same distance apart. We couldn't see the craft, but the stars
couldn't been seen within the area of the lights, so it was more
like watching a black triangular void with a star at each point
slowly moving across the sky. The craft was completely silent
and looked like it was about 100' above the trees. =D8=F8 We watched
the lights for about 10 minutes, until they were obstructed by
the trees. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com


Missouri - UFO Sighted By Two

ST. JOSEPH -- St. Joseph News-Press reports. "After witnessing
an unidentified flying object in the early hours of May 4, Ivana
Calhoun, a carrier for the St. Joseph News-Press, painted the
scene. "I'm positive I saw it but what it was, I don't know",
she said. A couple of rural St. Joseph News-Press carriers 100
miles apart see the same UFO! Ivana Calhoun and David Stafford
both claimed they did see something strange zip past their
windshields one morning this month. That Mrs. Calhoun, who was
delivering papers in rural McFall, Mo., saw the same object Mr.
Stafford saw while traveling through Grayson Mo., makes it even
stranger. =E2=80=9CI've never seen nothing like it, and I've seen
plenty of shooting stars. I'm out there every night. I know what
they look like,=E2=80=9D Mrs. Calhoun said. Mr. Stafford said he's
driven the same road a million times and never seen anything
like it, either. Not for several months, at least. =E2=80=9CAbout nine
months ago,=E2=80=9D he said, =E2=80=9CI saw one on the side of me, like
following me.=E2=80=9D For Mrs. Calhoun, Tuesday morning, May 4,
didn't seem out of the o=D8=F8 rdinary. After delivering a paper on
her route, she saw about 50 feet away and 50 feet up a
fluorescent orange sphere the size of a basketball zip across
her windshield.

The orb flew in a straight line and didn't make a sound, she
said. In less than three seconds, it was gone.=E2=80=9D It so
happened that Mrs. Calhoun was on her cell phone talking to Mr.
Stafford at the time. He was just leaving Grayson, Mo., when
he saw the same =E2=80=9CDay-Glo=E2=80=9D orange object about 30 feet
away. =E2=80=9CWe described it to each other, and it was the exact
same thing,=E2=80=9D Mr. Stafford said. =E2=80=9CI thought it was a
falling star, but it was going parallel to the ground. And
both of their watches read 3:45 a.m. Mrs. Calhoun made a
detailed report with the National UFO Reporting Center. She
was a guest on the =E2=80=9CJohn Rense Program,=E2=80=9D a nightly radio
show about UFOs. Mrs. Calhoun and Mr. Stafford both said the
UFO hasn't kept them from their paper routes. They both were
back at it the next morning. =E2=80=9CThat customer hasn't missed
a paper,=E2=80=9D Mrs. Calhoun said. =E2=80=9CBut (the customer)=D8=F8 has=
 no
idea I'm scared of his yard.=E2=80=9D Thanks to Mike Frizzell


Colorado - Stars Move in Perfect Formation

LITTLETON -- While looking up at the stars, two friends both
noticed at about the some time that a few stars appeared to be
moving, then faded from view at 11:15 PM, on May 8, 2004. They
pointed them out to the third person and they watched as the
stars continued to move in a large triangle formation. The
formation was much larger than any plane could have been, even
if it was flying at a low altitude. The formation was half the
area of the inside of the Little Dipper, which is where we first
spotted it. The object continued to move at a fairly good clip,
at one point obstructing the view of another stationary star,
until it faded from view. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com


Oregon - Sphere Release's Smaller Objects

SHERWOOD -- A pilot spotted an object overhead that looked like
a balloon at 5-10,000 feet in a clear sky with only a few
scattered cumulus clouds on May 8, 2004, at 1:45 PM. The
witness brought out his 8x42 binoculars and saw a sphere cluster
of about 5 spheres with a cord hanging down and a small object
at the bottom. He thought this could still be balloons so he got
his 18x50 image stabilized binoculars and noticed the cord and
the attached object had separated and was falling away. The
sphere's were about 5 to 10 feet in diameter. They were moving
with the upper level wind west to east at about 10 knots. The
spheres were not rotating or tumbling like balloons would and
were an off-white color. At about ten minutes duration, I
noticed three smaller sized spheres near but moving away from
the cluster. No planes or confirmed balloons were in the area.
Two minutes later, I noticed three smaller objects' closer to
the cluster and moving away at a slightly faster speed. After
some distance away from cluster, the smaller objects
disappeared. Size difference between cluster and small object's
would be like: pea to a golf ball. Then, focusing on the
cluster, I actually saw three smaller object's being released by
the cluster and this was repeated two more times.

LAKE OSWEGO -- As a long ti=D8=F8 me sky watcher and up close
daytime UFO witness, I believe this is not a balloon event and
not ordinary. No photos or video taken.

((NUFORC Note: We spoke with this witness via telephone, and he
sounds to us to be quite credible. PD)) Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com


Colorado -- Flying Triangle Sighting

DENVER -- This morning, at about 3:35 AM, the witness went out
in the back yard for a smoke on May 10, 2004, and saw a pretty
amazing sighting. He noticed a star moving, then another near
it. After checking to make sure it wasn't illusory movement, he
noticed a third. He states, "Basically, it was a triangular
formation, two lights leading with the third trailing them." The
formation came in from the south-east and as the trio passed
directly overhead, a fourth "appeared", joined the trio, and
seemed to drop in altitude (perhaps because it definitely grew
much larger and brighter than the other three). The fourth came
in from the east, then changed course and speed to match the
trio; the fourth partner sped off ahead of the trio to the
north-east. The trio followed slowly, taking about 3 minutes to
cross the sky and disappear. By the way, I say "trio" rather
than "HUGE black triangle" because the stars only seemed to dim
and blur as the triangular formation crossed them, rather than
completely blocking stars as I expect an intervening triangular
vehicle would. Anyway, I was amazed and felt fortunate.
"Thanks to Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com


California -- UFOs Videotaped

MODESTO -- R. David Anderson writes, "I have had a busy week
taking several pictures of UFOs. These were moving above my
house at about 1, 000 ft or lower depending on how large they
are in size. Today ( Sat ) after taking pictures of a UFO which
was hovering in the East ( in windy conditions! ) a big plane
was circling our house. I looked at it in binoculars and it had
U.S.A.F. emblems on the wings. [] Thanks to R. David Anderson


SACRAMENTO -- A white UFO was observed by Jeff Challender and
his family moving against the wind. The object Candy apple red
UFO with a fin at end with a yellow flange with a red Saturn
like UFO. There was a strobe on leading edge of craft on May 3,
2004. The object was seen at 9:15 AM near the American River.
Thanks to Jeff Challender


Canada -- Seven Fast Objects

EDMONTON -- On May 10, 2004, at 12:45 AM, the witness was
looking northeast out a large picture window when he saw a
meteor shower in the northwest sky. However, the way the lights
were traveling made him quickly realize they were not meteors.
I went out my front door and watched as they moved like birds
flying south. There were seven objects moving at about the same
speed but changing places. The creepiest part of the whole
experience was that they didn't seem too far off and they where
completely silent. I am involved with jet car racing and know
that to attain a speed like what I witnessed would have to
involve some sort of afterburning jet engine that would create
and incredible amount of noise at that altitude and speed. They
appeared to fly from Fort Saskatchewan towards the Camrose area.
I was a bit 'creeped' out about the sighting. Thanks to Brian
Vike www.hbccufo.com


Panama - Bright light in the Sky

RIO HATO -- The eight witnesses were at a World War II US
military installation, 108 kilometers west of Panama City on the
Pacific coastline on May 9, 2004, at 1 AM. The group of eight
neighbors observed unusual light activity inland to the north of
their location at the Costa Blanca Golf and Resort. First, we
observed three different circular steadily bright white lighted
objects shoot across the sky five to ten minutes apart. Five
minutes later they observed a narrow line of bright white light
moving parallel. As the line was continuing to move, suddenly a
bright white oval appeared for one to three seconds, and then
changed back into a single narrow bright white light. We
observed the sequence of light pattern twice and then they
completely disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com


Mexico's DoD Releases UFO Evidence

MEXICO CITY -- On May 11, 2004, an international press
conference was held to announce the findings of a joint official
and private effort to investigate a UFO sighting. The
Department of Defense collaborated with a top Mexican UFO
researcher, Jaime Maussan, in the release of information
concerning the appearance of eleven UFO's near a Mexican Air
Force Merlin C26/A flight that was on a drug surveillance
mission on March 5, 2004, about 5 PM, about an hour before
sunset. Using infrared cameras and radar tracking, the eight-man
crew of the flight was able to monitor the UFOs, which at one
point formed a circle around the flight.

General Clemente Vega Garcia, the Secretary of Defense released
the tracking data to Maussan in an amazing gesture showing a
willingness to work with private investigators. This is one of
few times a government has been willing to share evidence
showing UFOs are real. The data was released on May 9, 2004 by
Maussan on his popular television program 'Great Mysteries of
the Third Millennium' and was shown all over the world. Maussan
was initially contacted on April 20, by the Department of
Defense and had a meeting the next day. The Secretary of Defense
also provided the evidence to international media outlets in an
unprecedented new approach to dealing with the UFO phenomenon by
a major world government.

Major Magdaleno Casta=C3=B1on, Command pilotcan be heard in the
video: "Put on your seatbelts" "Don't scare me." The UFOs came
within two miles and should have been seen visually since it was
still daylight but were clearly seen on infrared cameras that
register heat.

"I wouldn't know how to identify it...but they must be
completely real," said Lt. Mario Adrian Vazquez, operator of the
infrared equipment, who insisted that tampering with said images
was impossible. Eleven targets were not detected on the RADAR
screen, while sixteen objects were picked up on the FLIR. Three
targets were detected by the RADAR, but the other ones on our
left side never appeared on the RADAR. Gradually, the UFOs seem
to surround the aircraft in what appeared as intelligent
manuevers.

Jaime Maussan called upon Mexican scientists to research the
UFO phenomenon in order to render an opinion and "not dismiss
videos a priori that show the existence of intelligence of
unknown origin" and that "astronomers or other scientist quit
their prejudiced notions and cease deriding those who have
studied the phenomenon and know that there is intelligent life
present [from other worlds] as fools, madmen, dreamers or
mystics."

Mexican astronomer Jose de la Herr=3DE1n provided his scientific
arguments regarding the impossibility that [the lights] could be
alien spacecraft, as has been speculated. He claims that they
could have been meteorite fragments. He explained that when a
meteor crashes into the Earth's atmosphere, it shatters into
many pieces which appear as though they were static and aligned
with one another as they give off an intense glow. "And of
course, people who do not know such phenomena occur interpret
them in many ways upon seeing them. For example, they can say
they were alien spaceships by virtue of having seen them."

Rafael Navarro of the Plasma Chemistry and Planetary Study
Laboratory of the UNAM Institute of Nuclear Science, added that
these are undoubtedly unidentified spherical objects shown by
the Air Force, but under no circumstances do they show the visit
of alien spacecraft. The space scientist told "Cronica" that it
is almost certainly "space junk" resulting from hundreds of
satellites burning up upon reentry into earth's atmosphere after
finishing their service cycle. The Mexican scientist cautioned
that UFO reports may increase, since humanity is launching an
increasing number of satellites that will burn up as they are
attracted by Earth's gravity. Navarro regretted that these
speculative news items should exert such a hold on the public's
imagination as opposed to serious efforts conducted in Mexico
and elsewhere in the world to detect the presence of
extraterrestrial life. -- Thanks to Translation (c) 2004 Scott
Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Editor's Note: It's
important to note that the Mexican Secretary of Defense
conducted a complete investigation with their own team shortly
after the March 5, 2004 incident and also with the help of
scientists and experts selected as government advisors. The
investigation was conducted confidentially and followed every
procedure required and were inconclusive. It was not until April
20, 2004, when General Clemente Vega, Secretary of Defense
decided, with his staff, to contact Jaime Maussan as an advisor
to aid in the investigation to conduct an independent study and
analysis of the C26A data. All the facilities were given to
Jaime as well as authorization to access the files and
interrogate the crew. The conclusions are clear, they were UFOs
-- solid objects of unknown origin - flying in airspace along
with the Merlin C26A. The Secretary of Defense accepted the
Maussan research team's conclusions as an unexplained event.
http://www.jaimemaussan.tv/


Editor's Note: Based on the limited information available it
seems unlikely that either plasmas, or space debris would
surround and remain near the aircraft for a significant period
of time. The fact that the objects were picked up on both
infrared and radar would indicate they were generating heat and
were relatively solid objects. Although, heavy rain can be
picked up on radar, the edges are almost always fuzzy in
appearance. The objects had relatively sharp edges indicating a
fairly solid object flying at 11,000 feet much higher than Earth
lights and similar phenomenon. These were clearly unidentified
flying objects UFOs that were not observed in the visual
spectrum. Their maneuvers seemed to indicate intelligence.
This does not infer they were alien spaceships. However, if they
were advanced military aircraft they have capabilities far in
advance of known technology.

Up to recently, few UFO sightings have been acknowledged by
governments although significant 1999 COMETA Report was released
by former top French military officials. The COMETA report can
be seen at the Skywatch International website.

The Mexican Department of Defense effort in collaborating with
Maussan helps legitimate research into the UFO phenomenon and
perhaps will encourage other countries to follow suit. The US is
becoming increasingly isolated in its strict non-disclosure
policy. If major world governments begin disclosing
information concerning contemporary UFO sightings, then it may
be predicted that the non-disclosure policy in place for over 50
years may soon come to an end. With our findings of intelligent
life at least in the past on Mars, the political implications of
an extraterrestrial presence could dominate global politics.


Thailand - Hundreds of Floating Stars

Bangkok -- A couple lives in a high rise apartment building
on the 17th floor in the middle of the city so they have a
spectacular view. On May 7, 2004, at 11:48 PM, they were
watching TV when the husband told his wife, "There were sparks
in the sky." They saw there was something peculiar. At first
there was only a few of these red lights or these red star like
objects. There was a tall building blocking a part of my
panoramic view of the sky, so it looked like these objects were
coming from behind that building. And then it kept on coming,
lots and lots of it... I'd say hundreds or more, lots of them!

And they floated upwards toward the sky slowly, dispersing
themselves as they moved, distancing themselves from each other.
There was no sound and we were just watching it in awe. I have
never seen anything like it. I'm a UFO skeptic and also a
backyard astronomer. I'd like to call this a natural phenomenon,
but nothing fits the description. Whatever it is that I saw I
highly doubt that its a meteor shower, because it doesn't come
from a point in the sky. Rather it comes from just above the
horizon and floated upwards, traveling from west to north of the
night sky before it disappeared slowly. It wasn't fireworks
either, there was no noise at all. I'm pretty sure other people
must have seen it, because it happened in the center of Bangkok.
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com


HELP KEEP THESE FILES COMING

Dear Readers - Filer's Files has been brought to you free
on a weekly basis for seven years. As of January 2004,
I have been requesting a donation of $24 per year to
enable continuation of Filer's Files. These files cannot
exist without your help. Donations can be sent to:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for

majorstar.nul

You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master
Charge. You can also mail your check to

George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055.

Many Thanks for your donations


New Mars CD showing dozens of images at much higher quality than
available on Internet for $25. Just contact us at the above
address.


WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE!

Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real
estate agent to help your buy or sell a home. To get a free
copy of this report e-mail me at : Majorstar.nul

FREE RELOCATION SERVICE FOR OUR READERS

If your thinking of moving or buying or selling a home anywhere
in the United States. Let my wife and I help you. Many of the
largest companies use our service. Just contact us at:
Majorstrar.nul

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul "The MUFON
Journal is now accepting qualified advertising, please call 1
(303) 932-7709 for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web
Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and
list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish
to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF
THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.


Regards,

George A. Filer www.GeorgeFiler.com/









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                        Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:11:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:21:57 -0400
Subject: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004


List,

I'm sorry to have to report that Lord Hill-Norton died on
Sunday, aged 89.

Admiral of the Fleet The Lord Hill-Norton G.C.B. was a former
Chief of the Defence Staff and Chairman of the NATO Military
Committee, who in his later years became greatly interested in
the UFO phenomenon.

His long and distinguished naval career included active service
on Arctic convoy duty during the Second World War, command of a
destroyer during the Suez Crisis, and a later posting in command
of the aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal.

His interest in UFOs came after his retirement, and he wrote
forewords to a number of Timothy Good's books, including Above
Top Secret and Unearthly Disclosure. He was particularly
interested in the Rendlesham Forest incident, and worked with
Georgina Bruni on this. He asked her to draft some questions
which he subsequently tabled in Parliament, trying to elicit an
official response to what he felt were a number of important
defence and national security issues raised by the events.

I briefed him on several occasions, which could be quite
challenging. Many staff officers and journalists found him
difficult, especially if they didn't quickly get to the point.
He was passionate about the Royal Navy, UFOs and a wide range of
other subjects. When I called on him last summer, on my way back
from a holiday, I found him as lively as ever. He had taken an
interest in a UFO sighting involving military witnesses on HMS
Manchester and had asked me to update him. He told me that
despite the frustrations, he intended to remain involved in
ufology for as long as he was able.

Lord Hill-Norton appeared in several UFO documentaries and was
frequently quoted on the subject in the media. Again, he could
be quite outspoken and was often highly critical of the Ministry
of Defence's policy on the UFO phenomenon. Those list members in
the UK will be able to see what I believe was his last TV
interview on UFOs next Wednesday evening, on Channel Five's new
documentary, The British UFO Files.

Lord Hill-Norton was a great friend to ufology, where the active
support of someone of his rank was without precedent. He will be
sadly missed.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                 Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:38:08 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:11:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Friedman


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:59:31 +0000
>Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:37:58 -0700
>>Subject: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

>>Source: Wired.com

>>http://www.wired.com/news/rants/0,2350,63489,00.html

>>05-17-04

>>Name: Guillermo Portales (guillportales.nul)
>>Subject: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

>>People who are not aware of the current political crisis in
>>Mexico will unfortunately be deceived by this staged
>>performance, which further embarrasses our country in the eyes
>>of the world ("Mexican Air Force Films UFOs," May 12, 2004). The
>>federal government of Mexico has outdone itself by doing the
>>most ridiculous PR stunt in the history of the modern world, by
>>attempting (unsuccessfully at least in Mexico) to distract
>>public attention from the terrible corruption scandals that are
>>plaguing the country and have finally crushed people's faith in
>>our government system.

>>All UFO researchers who have been given false hopes by this
>>story need to blame one man only, President Vicente Fox, in
>>reality instructed by his wife Marta Sahagun to perform the
>>wildest and most embarrassing political fiascoes of the last 100
>>years of Mexican history. Our whole country is sinking quickly
>>politically, socially and economically. Who knows what they'll
>>come up with next instead of focusing on fixing our real
>>problems.

>Pardon me all to hell, but just what do you base this rather
>wild and off-the-wall claim on? What is your evidence?

> - Dick

Dick,

Let's not shoot the messenger. The item is referenced to
Wired.com . I do think it is a splendid example of the lengths
to which debunkdom goes.


Stan Friedman








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

              Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:11:28 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:14:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:30:27 -0700
>Subject: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>Source: Uselessknowledge.com

>http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/may087.html

>05-18-04

>Abduct My Wallet: Confessions of a UFO Hoaxer

>By Lee Shargel

>The Aliens are coming! The Aliens are coming! Folks don't
>believe it. The only aliens that are coming are sneaking under a
>fence somewhere along the Texas border. How can I be so sure?
>Well, for one thing we've caught a few of them and they don't
>have tentacles, ray guns or flying saucers. What they do have is
>bad breath, bad directions and a pocket full of jallopenos.
>Sorry, no mystery here.

<snip>

It is interesting that this hoaxer doesn't mention that a number
of us spoke out about, and against him, because his story didn't
hold together. No reason all of us should take the blame for the
gullible ones out there.


Stan Friedman









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

              Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:08:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:20:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:30:27 -0700
>Subject: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>Source: Uselessknowledge.com

>http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/may087.html

>05-18-04


Hello All,

I had some inkling Mr. Shargel wasn't legit, but this confirms my
suspicions.

>Abduct My Wallet: Confessions of a UFO Hoaxer

>By Lee Shargel

>The Aliens are coming! The Aliens are coming! Folks don't
>believe it. The only aliens that are coming are sneaking under a
>fence somewhere along the Texas border. How can I be so sure?
>Well, for one thing we've caught a few of them and they don't
>have tentacles, ray guns or flying saucers. What they do have is
>bad breath, bad directions and a pocket full of jallopenos.
>Sorry, no mystery here.

Hmm. a little ah, prejudiced here. Funny too Hah hah.

>In 1996, I wrote a science fiction novel entitled "Voice in the
>Mirror." It was a fictional story about the discovery of life on
>another planet. The other planet was Earth. Yes, they discovered
>us. Now that's a switch. In my pursuit to find a publisher, I
>found that I was gathering enough rejection slips to wallpaper
>my house. Since, my wife felt that the rejection slip pattern
>did not fit the decor, I decided it was time for a different
>approach to this publising game. So, Doctor Lee Shargel, Top
>Secret NASA scientist was born.

So the birth of a Gobbels-like 'Big Lie' was born, too assuming
people are generally stupid.However some are not.

>I decided that the best way to get the book published was to
>make the slightest inference that it just might be real. Lo and
>behold, the New Age publishers were beating down my door. I
>secured a publisher and a nice (if not small) advance check. I
>was ready to meet the world as a fictional Top Secret NASA
>scientist and holder of a PhD in Egyptian Quantum Mechanics.
>(That degree was made up in a pinch, but it, too, worked) I got
>an agent and a manager who were only to eager to cash in on the
>UFO craze. But first it required a plan.

Of course the is no such thing as "Egyptian Quantum Mechanics"
and a non-gullible scientifically trained or at least astute,
person would know that.

However, there is _prey_ out there for the predators. However
the diner sometimes becomes the dinee...

>I was booked into a UFO convention in Philadelphia were I
>presented photos of the actual spacship that had crashed in
>Roswell, New Mexico. I blew them away with showmanship and P.T.
>Barnum hucksterisms. And I'll be darned, it worked. I thought,
>"Hey, there's money to be mined in these Black Hills of Alien
>Wonder." Note: Around this time our little blue planet had a
>celestial visitor named Hale-Bopp. So, thinking I should jump on
>the comet bandwagon, I rode the tail of this comet all the way
>to the bank and stopped off briefly for a two hour stint on Art
>Bell's Coast to Coast radio broadcast where I stated with a sci-
>fi preface that a "Companion" was following the comet. This
>created quite a stir and unbeknownst to me then, was heard by a
>small group of people in San Diego, who called themselves,
>Heaven's Gate.

Are you sorry, remorseful or are these folks also at the level of
your "Aliens" so sneeringly referenced above?

>I was invited to be the guest speaker at the
>International UFO Congress's annual meeting held in Laughlin,
>Nevada. There I would bring the audience to tears with my tales
>of abductions, governemnt conspiracies, photos of flying saucers
>(created in Hollywood of all places) Dolphinoid Aliens (Yeah
>that was one of my best) and a little piece of alien spacecraft.
>I saw first hand how these Alien Carnival barkers were picking
>the pockets (just as I was unashamedly doing at the time) of the
>thousands of attendees that travelled from all over the world
>and beyond, (Hey, you never know) to have their ears tickled by
>speculation and out right lies. As far as I was concerned, this
>was the height of entertainment. Everything was going fine until
>it was discovered that I was encroaching on the territory and
>the profits of this alien mafia.

Yes there are carnies in every human endeavor, you sir should
know. Oh, name names, by the way so we of the great
unwashed,credulous, groundlings may have your opinion of the
kettles form the pot himself?

>I was accosted by the UFO congressional leadership, (who voted
>for these BOZOS anyway?) who threatened my very existence unless
>I was to cease and desist from this foul game I was playing.
>They had this turf covered and there was no room for the likes
>of me. Oh, unless I wanted to share the profits of my alien
>gotten gain. I refused and was banished to Bogeyland. (That's
>internet Hell in case you were wondering.)

The diner becomes the dinee, apparently.

>And so as they say, the rest is history. I was cast into the
>abyss of the remainder pile at my local bookstore, forced to
>tolerate the myriad of lies written about me and posted on the
>internet and finally suffered the greatest of humilations, my
>publisher took the money and ran! Well, I rebounded in cool New
>York style. (I am from the Bronx!) I began writing magazine
>articles and screenplays again. I started a feature film
>company, FilmWorks LSD ("Indie Filmmaking - It's a Trip!") and I
>have a new book coming out that has absolutely nothing to do
>with aliens or the pickpockets that represent them. Now, Ain't
>that America?

Pickpockets? Gee I didn't know that folks like Stan, Dick, Wendy,
Bruce, Don L. and Don E., and others too numerous to mention,
not wanting to slight anyone, are getting rich over the unwashed
fools like myself that acutally have the temerity to want to
understand what I and others saw on a Eastern Oregon night so long
ago.

I hope you sleep well, Mr. Shargel. I couldn't.


GT McCoy








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

               Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part III

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:19:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:15:31 -0400
Subject: Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part III


Source: http://www.ovnistv.tv/noti_mayo/n_11mayo_reporte.htm


Continued from Part II:

SE ABRE EL CASO A LA OPINION PUBLICA

The Case Is Opened To Public Opinion

Despues del hecho, la Secretaria de la Defensa Nacional
(Mexico), decidir=EDa que este caso ten=EDa que ser del dominio
p=FAblico, ya que nuestro gobierno en atencion a la pol=EDtica de
transparencia de informacion asumida desde el comienzo de su
gestion as=ED lo establecer=EDa.

After the fact, the Secretary of the National Defense (Mexico),
decided that this case needed to be in the public domain, now
that our government is employing a policy of freedom of
information, [in Spanish it says, "transparency of information"]
it has maintained this openness since the beginning of its
management of this case thus establishing it. [policy of
openness]

De tal forma que el d=EDa 20 de abril, el Lic. Jaime Maussan seria
llamado a las instalaciones de la Defensa Nacional, para un
primer encuentro con altos mandos de las fuerzas armadas de
nuestro pa=EDs, para darle los pormenores del caso y dos d=EDas
despues, se le entrego copia en video del encuentro del avion
MERLIN C26/A de la Fuerza Aerea Mexicana con la finalidad de
llevar a cabo la investigacion pertinente y su posterior
conocimiento a la opinion publica en los diversos medios de
comunicacion de nuestro pa=EDs y el mundo. Todo esto con la
aprobacion del Gral. Ricardo Clemente jefe de las Fuerzas
Armadas de Mexico.

It came to pass that on April 20th, Jaime Maussan received a
call to go to one of the installations of the National Defense
Deptartment for an initial meeting with high ranking members of
the armed forces of our country. The meeting was set up in order
to brief himon the details of this case and two days later, he
received a copy, in video format, of the encounter of the MERLIN
C26/A airplane of the Mexican Air Force, with the explicit
mission to carry out any pertinent investigations and to
distribute subsequent findings to the diverse communication
media members of of our country and the world. All this was done
with the approval of General Ricardo Clemente, Chief of the
Armed Forces of Mexico.

Posteriormente el sabado 1ro. de mayo en las propias
instalaciones de la SEDENA (Secretaria de la Defensa Nacional)
se realizo la entrevista a los tres principales testigos del
caso.

Subsequently on Saturday, May 1st, 2004 at one of the
installations of SEDENA (Secretary of the National Defense) I
conducted interviews with the three of the main witnesses in the
case.

El piloto, Mayor Magdaleno Castanon Munoz, el operador del
radar, Teniente German Mar=EDn Ram=EDrez, y operador de "FLIR" el
Teniente Mario Adrian Vazquez Tellez. Quienes, sin ning=FAn tipo
de censura, dieron ante la camara su testimonio, en donde quedo
de manifiesto su profesionalidad como gente capacitada para
operar y trabajar equipos especializados as=ED como por supuesto,
los pormenores de este sorprendente caso, que, seguramente,
cambiara la manera de ver el fenomeno de los No Identificados.

The pilot, Major Magdaleno Castanon Munoz, the radar operator,
Lieutenant German Mar=EDn Ram=EDrez, and the "FLIR" operator,
Lieutenant Mario Adrian Vazquez Tellez. Personnel who, without
any kind of censorship, gave testimony before the chamber, where
their professionalism as people who are highly qualified to
operate highly specialized equipment became manifestly clear,
along with the details of this surprising case, which, surely
will change the way we view the UFO phenomenon.

LA INVESTIGACION

The Investigation

Lo que se aprecia en la grabacion de la camara "FLIR",
definitivamente no tiene que ver nada con aviones, aves,
fenomenos meteorologicos, papalotes, globos atmosfericos,
estrellas, planetas, luces de la tierra producidos por
movimientos tectonicos, estrellas fugaces, etc. Convirtiendose
en un verdadero desafio para todos aquellos que de verdad deseen
traer luz a este caso que promete convertirse en uno de los mas
importantes de la historia de la investigacion del fenomeno
Ovni, ya que por la calidad y capacidad de los testigos as=ED como
su formacion academica y militar queda establecido. Amen de que
el caso se soporta en un impresionante video que fue tomado con
equipo sofisticado y sustentado por lecturas de radar.

What appears on the recording of the "FLIR" camera, in the final
analysis, does not have anything to do with airplanes, birds,
weather phenomena, atmospheric globes, stars, planets, lights on
land or anything produced by tectonic movements, shooting stars,
etc. This has become a real challenge for anyone truly desiring
to bring light to this case that promises to become one of the
most important in the history of the investigation of the UFO
phenomenon, the quality and competence of the witnesses, as well
as their military and academic expertise has been established.
They love the fact that the case is shored up by an impressive
video that was taken with sophisticated equipment and supported
by hard radar data.

----------------------------------------------------------------

More tomorrow. Again, I thank you all for your patience.

John Velez







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

              Re: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:25:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:18:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets - Rudiak


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:05:05 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets


>I hope that as a result of this article (see below)....

>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/13/student_unlocks_military_secrets/

>The article referred to is about how cryptographers went about
>determining what the blacked-out words in classified documents
>likely were. This was also covered in a New York Times article
>by John Markoff on May 10 (Section C4). The technique was
>revealed at a European security conference in Switzerland last
>week.

The technique is basically this:

1. Determine document font

2. From the font determine likely word length of the blacked
out word

3. Determine all words of that word length (computer search).

4. Use grammatical and semantic contextual constraints to
winnow out nonsense words (i.e., the unknown word should be the
right part of speech and make sense in the context of the
surrounding words.

5. For the few remaining "suspects," use background knowledge
of the situation and a little common sense to select the most
likely word.

The technique was illustrated using a sentence from a classified
presidential briefing memo released to the Sept. 11 commission.
The sentence read, "An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative
told an XXXXXXXX service at the same time that Bin Laden was
planning to exploit the operative's access to the US to mount a
terrorist strike."

First they figured out the blacked out word was 8 letters long,
came up with 1530 possible fits, then reduced this to just 7 by
applying the grammatical and semantic constraints. They then
figured from the context of the sentence that the likely word
was "Egyptian" rather than other possibilities like "Ukranian"
or "Ugandan."

Unconscioiusly everybody does this same sort of thing everyday
to fill in missing words in spoken or written language, whether
they be crossword puzzle solvers or "Wheel of Fortune"
contestants. We use various forms of context, such as our
grammatical knowledge of the language and knowledge of the
situation, to make a decent guess at what can't be explicitly
heard or seen.

The reason I bring this up is because this is the same basic
technique I applied to reading Gen. Ramey's memo. I did letter
counts, maybe figured out a few likely letters in a word, did
computer word searches to see what might fit, then selected a
most likely word by applying grammatical and other contextual
constraints. Thus by doing word searches on the "victims" word
using search letters "vi??i?s", there are only 8 possibilities,
and one can eliminate nonsense hits like "virgins" and "violins"
by applying the situation context (a military message held by
Gen. Ramey while he is trying to sell a weather balloon story
and debunk the Roswell press release of a recovered flying
disk).

In other words, I was applying a technique that the above cited
articles state professional cryptographers use. They recognize
the overwhelming importance of applying proper context (how they
reduce 1530 possibilities down to only one). It's too bad
debunkers of the Ramey memo refuse to acknowledge this, instead
trying to spin context as being prejudice or bias.


David Rudiak







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

              Re: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04 -

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:42:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:30:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04 -


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:07:29 -0500
>Subject: Mexico's Meteorological Expert On 03-05-04

>These are the statements made by Alberto Hernandez Unzon
>yesterday, during an interview on television about the Mexican
>Air Force UFO case.

>Engineer in Geophysics Alberto Hernandez is sub-manager of the
>National Meteorological Services, Mexico's official
>meteorological center. He is also a Member of the Scientific
>Advisory Comitee of the National System for Civil Protection,
>and Member of the Hurricane Committee of the Worldwide
>Meteorological Association.

>Question: There have been some statements pointing that there
>were flash-lightning conditions in the area at that time. What
>were the conditions at that time?

>Answer:  ....The meteorological conditions in this
>season are of cold fronts but that day in particular there were
>none present. What we had were the type of clouds that do not
>cause the flash phenomena.

>Question: That means that the meteorological conditions were not
>suitable for lightning that day over Campeche and therefore
>contradicts what the UNAM scientists claimed in their report?

>Question: Did the scientists from the UNAM approach the
National
>Meteorological Services to request the meteorological
conditions
>over Campeche to support their theory?

>Answer: No, they have never approached us at any time. If they
>are talking about a meteorological phenomena at that location,
>they should have met with us at the National Meteorological
>Services to obtain the meteorological conditions just like your
>team, as well as journalists did.

Ha, ha, ha!  Another classic example of "science" in default.
From their armchairs, UNAM "scientists" did some kneejerk
debunking of the sighting as ball lightning without doing even a
minimum amount of investigation, such as checking weather
conditions to see if they might have supported ball lightning.
What a disgrace!

>Answer: If this is an optical phenomenon it cannot be refered to
>Meteorology. It is not a photo meteor, it is not a litho meteor.
>They are not ice crystals nor a St. Elmo's fire. Those are all
>meteorological phenomena. And this is not a mirage phenomena.

>In conclusion, we do not have an explanation to this phenomena.
>There are satellites Aqua and Terra and we can request NASA to
>send us images of that day to continue this study and get more
>information to try to find out what could have happened that
>day.

Now this is a real scientist at work, logically rejecting
idiotic conventional "explanations" that can't work and explain
nothing, and instead seeking further information.


David Rudiak








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                Re: Check The UFO UpDates Archive! - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:07:32 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:32:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Check The UFO UpDates Archive! - Freeman


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:51:35 -0400
>Subject: Check The UFO UpDates Archive!

<snip>

>For anybody who is following developments in the Mexico case...
>The fascinating transcript of Jaime Maussan's interviews with
>three of the crew members who were part of the mission that
>encountered the UFOs is posted at the UFO UpDates archive but
>for some reason it never made it to my mailbox.

>Check the archive from time to time and compare the posts that
>are listed there with the ones arriving in your mailbox at home.
>It is worth your while to do so as this instance proved to be
>for me. If not for checking the archives, I would have missed an
>important document in the ongoing developments of this most
>interesting incident.

John and List,

Good advice, John. I ran into the same problem a couple of weeks
ago, finding out that I received only about half of the posts
that were listed in the archives. About the only thing I could
do was complain to my ISP. They must have done something,
because this past weekend I couldn't get online, and didn't get
back online till Monday. I assume they did some sort of
'revision' thing. Anyway, I think things are back to normal.


Kelly







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                 Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:04:24 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:33:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility



Hi Everyone!

Last weekend at San Francisco's 'Wired NextFest 2004' there were
many UFO-type technologies showcased there. Some of these
include the amazing invisibility coat

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_747591.html

and the giant spherical UFO-like airship with an internal cabin
for crew and passengers that is manufactured in the suburbs
north of Toronto.

http://www.21stcenturyairships.com/

Technology we thought we did not have is already in the public
domain and available to everyone.


Nick Balaskas








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Taylor

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:22:38 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:35:52 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Taylor


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:24:02 -0500
>Subject: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>These are transcript excerpts from the interviews with three
>crew members directly involved in the Mexican Air Force C26A
>plane incident on March 5, 2004 - conducted by researcher Jaime
>Maussan as part of the investigation in April 2004.

<snip>

>Question: Is it possible that the FLIR gave false information?

>Answer: It is not posible. This was visual information of a
>target that had both heat and movement, so it would not make
>reference to something that was not there.

>Question: Does the FLIR register hot air?

>Answer: No. FLIR doesn't register hot air, it registers an
>object that generates heat.

>Question: Then the eleven objects that were detected by the
>FLIR were generating heat. Were these objects there even though
>you couldn't see them with your eyes?

>Answer: They were there, and we have the data references by
>their positions. They were on our left side, at the same
>laltitude and the same speed.

>Question: How much heat were the objects generating?

>Answer. We ran several measurements trying to get an image and
>all the time the targets registered very hot. We never found any
>irregular shape, they were spherical all the time.

Hi List members,

I was just curious to see what type of UFO was filmed in the
Mexican footage by the Infrared camera so run a series of
grabbed stills from the footage through a false colour
enhancement procedure. To my surprise, they resulted in images
identical to the hoax device stills I have worked on over the
last several years.

I find the statements in the interview above particularly
significant. These statements could well confirm what I have
found in the images.

If your have an interest in this case, than I strongly suggest
you have a study of the images on my UFO web page at...

http://theozfactor.cjb.net/mexicoufo.htm

If you are into image enhancement, I suggest you do the same.
The evidence may just reveal itself by comparison with known
object analysis.


Regards,

Barry Taylor







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

             Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:38:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:38:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:01:09 -0400
>Subject: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II

>Corrections:

>From the original Spanish:

<snip>

>Digno de comentar, es el hecho que de esta flotilla, sobresale la
>presencia de un objeto de enormes proporciones que habr=EDa de
>manifestarse durante el transcurso de la mision, esto, ante la
>mirada atonita de los testigos; y que de acuerdo al testimonio
>del piloto de al aeronave, podr=EDa haber tenido el tamano de un
>edificio de 15 pisos, basandose en la lectura de la camara "FLIR".
>Posteriormente los aparatos establecieron que aparentemente
>los objetos rodeaban al avion.

>Worthy of comment, is the fact that with this flotilla,
>preceding it, was the presence of an object of enormous
>proportions that made an appearance during the course of the
>mission, this, before the amazed looks of the witnesses; and in
>accordance with the testimony of the pilot of the airplane,
>would have had to be the size of a fifteen story building. This
>estimate being based on the readings from the "FLIR".
>Subsequently the equipment helped to establish the fact that the
>objects at one point _surrounded_ the airplane.

<snip>

Are you saying here that besides the eleven lights/heat
signatures, the crew saw (or registered on their instraments) an
object that was as big as a 15 storey building? Is that what
this means?


Diana








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

             Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:55:59 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:43:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:01:09 -0400
>Subject: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II

<snip>

>"Worthy of comment, is the fact that with this flotilla,
>preceding it, is the presence of an object of enormous
>proportions that made an appearance during the course of the
>mission," (referring to a 15 story high UFO)


To John, Santiago & All

Is this just an opinion, or is it based on observations which
would have been made, presumably, on the radar screen?

Is there a recording of it?

This may be a very important aspect of the case, and it seems to
me that is should be discussed here.


Gildas Bourdais









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

              Anyone Been Asked By Media To Comment On Mexican

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:12:33 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:45:36 -0400
Subject: Anyone Been Asked By Media To Comment On Mexican


Just curious with all the chatter if anyone has been asked by
the media to comment on the Mexican UFO case?

I've seen bits and heard soundbytes but no long drawn thorough
analysis.

Some of you have had quotes appear in snippets here and there
and considering the dominating news regarding the Iraqi prisoner
abuse scandal I'm suprised this story saw the light of day which
is a testament to how important and how interested the public
is!

Thank goodness for Errol and Rense and Noory.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                  Re: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004 - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:29:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:46:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004 - Jones


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:11:26 +0100
>Subject: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004

Afternoon All

>I'm sorry to have to report that Lord Hill-Norton died on
>Sunday, aged 89.

I am sorry to tthear that. Nick please pass on my condolences to his
family for me.


Regards,

Sean Jones

--

In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
Sean Jones
http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

              Those Men In Black A Review Of 'High Strangeness'

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:17:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:51:33 -0400
Subject: Those Men In Black A Review Of 'High Strangeness'


Those Men In Black -- A Review of "High Strangeness"
Wendy Connors' Second Volume In Her Ongoing Ufological Audio History
Series.....

by Alfred Lehmberg

On my review of her first captivating volume - "Ufology: A
Primer in Audio 1939 - 1959," I wrote that it's not the
beginning of the end, or even the end of the beginning -- It's
the beginning of the beginning! '... and you are there...,'
reader! There was precious little hyperbole in that statement
or its parent review.

Ms. Connor Does it again with Volume II and provides some
indication (...a very exciting Volume III is already available!)
that the end is not even in sight! In this second disc in the
series she provides, again, nothing less than the unvarnished
aural history of a subject that won't be remotely treated as
well anywhere else.

This time, while performing the same service in the same
fascinating and convenient way, she gives voice to one of the
most unsettlingly dodgy facets of the UFO conundrum -- those
cloyingly ubiquitous Men In Black. Why?

Men In Black ARE dodgy and unsettling. They are dodgy because
their historical roots are suspect, abstruse, and dominated by
the unflattering stories regarding the 'suspected' hoaxes of
Gray Barker and Albert K. Bender ...and the 'admitted' ones of
CSICOPian John Sherwood (practicing his 'Robertsian' duplicity
as one Dr. Richard H. Pratt)... and that all too well known
ufological curmudgeon and conflicted commentator, hizzoner James
W. Moseley. Even Howard Keel (of "Mothman Prophesies" fame) is
listed heavily in this divergent research as a purveyor of
alleged MIB hoopla.

The debunking of the MIB is thorough and convincing and might
even put an end to the matter, but that the debunking effort is
plied by persons of CSICOPian persuasion and so then worthy of,
at least, a second look for that reason alone. CSICOPia, as
I've argued before, has its axe to grind.

More convincing, regarding these MIB issues, is one UFO
researcher decidedly bereft of axes, Jerry Clark, who writes:
 "First-generation American ufologists' experiences of men in
black - as opposed to the MIB who came along later - were the
extremely dubious cases of Maury Island and Al Bender, along
with the even more questionable Edgar Jarrold "mystery" and
Stuart/Wilkinson affair (in both senses of the word "affair").
 In retrospect, the bulk of what Gray Barker wrote in the one
men-in-black book of the 1950s (They Knew Too Much About Flying
Saucers, 1956) has been discredited. Beyond that, contactee
writers such as Adamski and Williamson were using men in black
to weave conspiracy theories, based in anti-Semitic literature,
about the so-called Silence Group. No wonder sensible ufologists
were sensibly suspicious of men-in-black notions."

Why, then, pay attention to MIB stories at all? We pay
attention because rational ufology doesn't close the book on
them altogether, they may be a device to screen other activity,
and (as mentioned before but worth repeating) anything
discounted stridently by the CSICOP cult of obdurate
personalities deserves a re-look as a matter of standard
operating procedure!

Moreover, the history of the phenomena may predate all recent
(post 1950) accounting of them and easy dismissal of same!

Examples...

In the March 30, 1905, edition of the Barmouth Advertiser, a
Welsh newspaper, it was reported that over a period of three
nights a "man dressed in black" appeared in the bedroom of an
"exceptionally intelligent young woman of the peasant stock....
This figure has delivered a message to the girl which she is
frightened to relate..." whatever one may make of that...

In 1864 a gaunt and weirdly accented man, dressed all in black,
tried to purchase unusual metal parts dropped from a mysterious
flying machine that were only on display and not for sale. He
departed, and then the building the 'parts' were stored in
subsequently burned to the ground. Ashes, sifted for the parts,
failed to turn up them up. The man in black was never seen or
heard from again.

In 1730 a 13-year-old Norwegian girl told priestly Inquisitors
an astonishing tale. Six years earlier she and her grandmother
had flown on the back of a huge pig (?) to attend a meeting with
'Satan'. On the way, the clerics wrote in their report, "they
met three men dressed in black whom the grandmother referred to
as 'grandfather's boys'. Once arrived at the meeting place,
they all went in and sat down at table next to the 'devil'. Her
grandmother addressed the demon as 'grandfather'.

These "Three men dressed in black" would be a recurring theme,
echoing down to present day. Additionally, prior to the modern
automobile, these men in black were sometimes seen to arrive and
depart in silent black carriages, an antique precursor to quiet
black Cadillacs, perhaps...

Howard Keel has written that MIBs had interacted with such
historical figures as Julius Caesar, Thomas Jefferson, Napoleon,
and Malcolm X. Ominously, Keel has written that "the general
descriptions of vampires ... are identical to the 'men in
black'." The danger of MIB visitation to those interested in
UFOs especially "the neurotic, the gullible, and the immature"
he writes, is such, Keel warns, that parents might "forbid their
children from becoming involved [with UFOs], and that teachers
and other responsible adults should not encourage teenagers to
take an interest in the subject." Mr. Keel can't be discounted
out of hand. Jerry Clark seems to believe he has a degree of
respectable seriousness to him, whatever the debated quality of
Mr. Keel's scholarship, on the one hand, and that this writer
lost a teaching job for indulging those interests on the
other.....

MIBs, as previously mentioned, are also... unsettling. Men in
black portray an association with the shadow government (?), are
the government extant (?), are a black agency of government (?),
are ETs who mimic the government (?), or are of a 'larger'
government, and 'so', in fact (?), then, a government of some
indeterminate and unsuspected kind! I don't mean that, of
course, in a good way.

They are indication that individuals, at best, only have the
illusion that they captain their own ships? That we can removed
from the equations of our societies by unaccountable shadows or
excised, by them, without due process of any type? Finally,
MIBs are, at least, a face to be put on the arbitrary
manipulation and convenient control by shadow agencies of non-
admitted and closed institutions we suspect is otherwise going
on?

In these days of ever more repressive 'government' -
 reproductionist, rightist, and religiously fundamentalist ...
where liberty dwindles, human rights sublimate, and due process
is airily abandoned altogether as a luxury that cannot be
afforded... the MIBs are an uneasy metaphor of our troubled
times.

They are another kind of metaphor.

They are a metaphor for the hurdles encountered in coming to
grips with the ephemeral phenomenon of UFOs and all their
related sister subjects. They are of a totalitarian fabric
threatening unusual individuals compelled by their rationality
(and their experience!) to search behind suffocating curtains
for the obligatory (and self serving) wizards we suspect are
there!

These aforementioned individuals, by the way, are unusual only
in that they have 'encountered' an "unusual"... for which their
proud culture refuses to provide an explanation, and in fact
punishes them, in some real-world way for their lawful interest!
Left to our own devices we grapple with the problem on our own
and as we can.

At the same time, these individual persons are sisters and
brothers, wives and husbands, parents and children... IF they
are not friends and acquaintances, neighbors and fellow
citizens, or others persons we'd otherwise hold in respect and
regard. They are us, and we are threatened individually.
Verily.

Men In Black are an obstacle of indeterminate matter that would
glue the blinding scales to our eyes and otherwise buttress our
cultural blinders... perhaps for our own good? No, not for our
'good'. Decidedly, no.

Our contrived and over-manipulated corporate-driven culture is
just not set up that way, is this writer's contention. Little,
if anything, is (and has ever been) 'kept' from us for our own
good. Much is kept from us that would advantage us individually
at the expense of our present manipulators, is the suspicion.
 Individuality, personal autonomy, creative freedom, and freedom
of expression... these are the bane of an elite and repugnant,
reproductionist, reactionary, and intellectually uptight
(...intelligence hating, actually!) fundamentalist culture...
trying to return us to the thirties in the case of
fundamentalist Christianity, or to the thirteen-fifties as is
the case with fundamentalist Islam.

Hell IS better.

Besides, if the 'aliens' were the threat of popular "head-
eating" conjecture (or otherwise complicated the elitist's game
plan...?), our culture would mobilize us against them the way
they have against the (almost as nebulous!), Islamic terrorists!
They wouldn't be shy! Consider Pearl Harbor and 9/11.

No. Our culture would have us bristle at THAT brand of alien
threat! Instead, our culture (and their lap-dog CSICOPian
apologists!) paints an interest in the ufological as the
activity of the stupid, the product of the duplicitous, or the
production of the mentally ill - as baseless and nonsensical!
...Ironic when the opposite seems to be true: that the "M" cubed
misrepresentation of the Misleading corrupting the Mislead into
their Mental illness is, ITSELF, baseless and nonsensical!

What UFOs are, really, as Richard M. Dolan has pointed out, is
the purest of pure seditions! They are an alternative, and
perhaps even better, idea (perhaps decisively so!)! Would you
like to find out if that is true? Could you be safer, freer,
smarter... stronger?

Yes, of course. The preceding paragraphs are a justification
for reviewing Connors 'forbidden index' of forgotten ufological
lore! To gain access... to mine that history for facts those
folks didn't really know they were giving away, decades ago!

Listening to Wendy Connor's ardent compilation the listener can
sift the expressions of the principals on their own regarding
the subjects of MIBs and many other themes in the ufological
tradition. Grains of ufological truth may surely be gleaned in
the exercise! Moreover, Ufology has always had its share of
inimitable strangeness, cultivated or otherwise, as it has
evolved, and this volume of Connors' aural history is every bit
of THAT! Her compilation amply covers the (ufologically silver?)
years 1952 to 1976, when hairy anthropoids shambled out of
flying saucers (?), Men in Black silenced witnesses to UFOs (?),
and other monsters prowled the unsettled countryside.

Something was going on... whatever the debated 'provenance' of
all this "high strangeness."

There are lectures, personal experiences recounted, and the
fall-out of those early reports linger and compel even today.
Listen to the accounts and presentations of Gray Barker, John
Keel, Norman Oliver, Stan Gordon, Dr. Herbert Hopkins, Hayden
Hewes, Dr. Ivan T. Sanderson and Albert K. Bender (in their own
words) as they flesh out the real and imagined activities of
MIBs and other monsters found in an all too real ufological
reality. You won't be hearing it (or finding it) anywhere else.

Remember, also... it IS the future. Spinning up on the primary
references of the past is always a good idea, and provides scant
disservice to that future. Truth is better than fiction even if
sometimes it's the 'fiction' that IS the truth!

For order information, a table of contents, and brief of same...
visit:

http://fadeddiscs.com/strangeness.html

Read on!


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 20

                          Secrecy News -- 05/20/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:28:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:33:32 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/20/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 46
May 20, 2004


**      CRS ON CHEMICAL PLANT SECURITY
**      MORE CRS PRODUCTS
**      CACI ON ADVANCED C3I
**      OVERSEEING CONTRACTORS IN IRAQ
**      TELLER FELLOWSHIPS IN NUCLEAR NONPROLIFERATION
**      SECRECY NEWS RECEIVES PLAYBOY FIRST AMENDMENT AWARD


CRS ON CHEMICAL PLANT SECURITY

The term "homeland security" is ill-chosen not only because of
its strange Germanic overtones but because it stresses physical,
geographic security while neglecting challenges to the vital
structures of democratic governance that make America truly
distinctive.

But there are clearly cases where physical security is a
preeminent concern, and one of them is the vulnerability of the
thousands of industrial chemical facilities around the country.
Plausible worst-case scenarios at such facilities place many
thousands of lives at risk.

"Available evidence indicates that many chemical facilities may
lack adequate safeguards" against terrorism or other deliberate
attack, according to a recent assessment by the Congressional
Research Service.

The scope of the problem and the various legislative solutions
that have been proposed are discussed at length in "Chemical
Plant Security" by Linda-Jo Schierow, Congressional Research
Service, updated January 20, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31530.pdf


MORE CRS PRODUCTS

As a matter of Congressional policy, direct public access to
reports of the Congressional Research Service is prohibited
unless an individual member chooses to make one or more such
reports available online. Few do so.

But this unreasonable secrecy policy can be defeated, at least
in part, with minimal effort.

Some notable CRS reports on national security topics that are
newly available on the FAS web site include the following:

"Terrorist Identification, Screening, and Tracking Under
Homeland Security Presidential Directive 6" by William J.
Krouse, April 21, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32366.pdf

"Illicit Drugs and the Terrorist Threat: Causal Links and
Implications for Domestic Drug Control Policy" by Mark A.R.
Kleiman (former director of the FAS Drug Policy Project and now
proprietor of the weblog www.markarkleiman.com), updated April
20, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32334.pdf

"Greece: Threat of Terrorism and Security at the Olympics" by
Carol Migdalovitz, April 30, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21833.pdf

"Computer Security: A Summary of Selected Federal Laws,
Executive Orders, and Presidential Directives" by John Moteff,
April 16, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32357.pdf

"Detention of American Citizens as Enemy Combatants" by Jennifer
K. Elsea, updated March 15, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31724.pdf


CACI ON ADVANCED C3I

Advanced technologies for command, control, communications and
intelligence (C3I) are the important subject of a new report for
the Air Force prepared by CACI Technologies, Inc.

The report, which is jargon-rich and often unintelligible to a
non-specialist reader, is perhaps most notable because of its
authorship. CACI is a large defense and intelligence contractor
that has received unwelcome publicity in connection with the
interrogation services it provided at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

See "Advanced Command, Control, Communications & Intelligence
(C3I) Systems Analysis and Trade-Offs," March 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/caci-c3i.pdf


OVERSEEING CONTRACTORS IN IRAQ

Rather belatedly, Congress is directing the Pentagon to develop
management guidelines for defense contractors in Iraq (such as
CACI) and to provide a report on their activities.

See section 1205 of the House version of the 2005 Defense
Authorization Act (HR 4200) on "guidance and report required on
contractors supporting deployed forces in Iraq":

  http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2004/defauth-cont.html

"Brighter lights and stronger controls need to be placed over
these [military contractors]," wrote columnist Nicholas von
Hoffman in the June Harper's Magazine.

"Either we supervise them or eventually they will supervise us."


TELLER FELLOWSHIP IN NUCLEAR NONPROLIFERATION

The pending defense authorization act for 2005 would establish a
seemingly incongruous fellowship in the name of nuclear weapons
designers Edward Teller and Igor Kurchatov to support scientific
research to stop the spread of nuclear weapons.

Teller is often referred to as the "father of the H bomb." He
was a relentless advocate of the development of nuclear weapons
technology for various purposes, peaceful and otherwise. Igor
Kurchatov led the secret program to develop the first Soviet
atomic bomb.

Under the proposed fellowships, selected scientists in the U.S.
and Russia would be funded for up to two years to conduct
research in "nuclear nonproliferation sciences," which is
defined as "scientific knowledge relevant to developing or
advancing the means to prevent or impede the proliferation of
nuclear weaponry."

See the provision in section 1422 of H.R. 4200 here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2004/defauth-teller.html


SECRECY NEWS RECEIVES PLAYBOY FIRST AMENDMENT AWARD

We are grateful to report that the Playboy Foundation has
awarded Secrecy News one of eight Hugh M. Hefner First Amendment
Awards for 2004.

"Secrecy News... keeps Americans apprised of the inner workings
of government secrecy and promotes reform of its secret
processes," according to a May 19 news release announcing the
awards, which will be presented May 24 in New York. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/05/pb051904.html

_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

             Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:55:59 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:13:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:01:09 -0400
>Subject: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II

<snip>

>"Worthy of comment, is the fact that with this flotilla,
>preceding it, is the presence of an object of enormous
>proportions that made an appearance during the course of the
>mission," (referring to a 15 story high UFO)


To John, Santiago & All

Is this just an opinion, or is it based on observations which
would have been made, presumably, on the radar screen?

Is there a recording of it?

This may be a very important aspect of the case, and it seems to
me that is should be discussed here.


Gildas Bourdais








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                       Re: Gers France 1973/74 - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 02:40:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:17:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Gers France 1973/74 - Hatch


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:55 -0700
>Subject: Gers France 1973/74

>Gers, France

>Date:  1973 or 1974
>Time: 8:00 - 8:15 a.m.

>Duration of event: about 5 to 10 minutes
>Location of event: National Road 124

>Number of witnesses: 2 Number of ojects: 1
>Shape of object: Orange glowing with defined contour.
>Complete description of event: It was in 1973 or 1974 and I was
>9 or 10 years old. It was around 8 or 8:15 in the morning and my
>dad was driving me to school like he did every morning then.


Hello Brian:

Gers is not a city, but a Department of France, one of about
100, making these something between a US county and state in
size.

For 1973-1974 I have only the following cases listed for Dept.
Gers:

#11232: 1974/03/25 02:30h  d=10m  00:10E  43:39N WEU FRN GRS
St.PIERRE-d'AUBEZIES,FR:4/CAR:SLNT RED LUMn.BALL NE>SW/10min:
BRIGHTENS+DIMS
/r194 LUMIERES dans la NUIT.(LDLN France)  No.138 ROAD

#11233: 1974/03/?? 03:00h  d=2m   00:02W  43:46N WEU FRN GRS
nr NOGARO,GERS:CAR EMEs:90cm GREEN OID BY ROADSIDE:LONG ARMS:
CAR RESTARTS!  (day of month unknown -lh)
/r30 FIGEUT&RUCHON: OVNI: Le 1er Dossier  Page 462 ROAD

#11240: 1974/03/26  21:50h  d=15m  00:23E  43:44N WEU FRN GRS
St.JEAN-POUTGES,FR:2 OBS:GLO-OVOID+BOAT-CGR BOTH VANISH:
DOG'S DISH DISAPPEARS!
/r194 LUMIERES dans la NUIT.(LDLN France)  No.138 RESIDENT'L

In none of these do the time of day match, though the first case
above sounds something like what the witness remembers.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                Re: Check The UFO UpDates Archive! - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <denzlerb.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 06:31:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:23:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Check The UFO UpDates Archive! - Denzler


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:51:35 -0400
>Subject: Check The UFO UpDates Archive!

<snip>

>Brenda Denzler: I hope you paid close attention to the testimony
>of the crew. All of them highly trained and professional
>military people. I stand by my original (albeit speculative)
>assessment of the behavior of the UFOs. As it turns out my
>initial 'read' on the actions of the UFOs is identical to the
>assessments of the UFOs' behavior by the crew who was there at
>the time. I will allow the testimony of this experienced air-
>crew to stand as my response to your post.

Thanks, John. I went back and re-read it, and I was impressed
with their testimony. I was impressed that they identified the
movements of the objects that they saw, without imputing any
motivations to those movements. The only thing they attributed
to the objects was an apparent awareness of their (the plane's)
own pursuit and then the fact that they had broken off that
pursuit. To-wit:


"Question: At the beginning of the incident, was it possible
these objects became aware that you were following them?

Answer: It's just a guess, but perhaps there was a connection,
in that sense, because it is very strange that we first pursued
them, but when we cancelled that and made a completely opposite
turn te objects then also turned - but in OUR direction and
began following us. I think it could be posible that in some way
these objects were aware that we had been following and
observing them."


When the crew talks about other motivations or emotions, those
are their own. Amazement, fear, confusion about the nature of
the objects..... Which is what good observers would do. They
report on the actions of the thing observed, and on their own
actions and attitudes in response to that.

I will allow the testimony of this experienced aircrew to stand
as my response to your response.

I will also say that I wish your interpretation of the meaning
of the actions of the objects were true - that there are such
benevolent creatures. And that they care about us and feel
friendly toward us. The larger hope lying behind that wish is
that they would come down here and shake us by our collective
teeth and make us stop being such jack-asses (especially some of
us who lead nations, and those leaders' minions). Alas, I see no
reason to expect wish fulfillment based upon the evidence in
this case so far.


Brenda








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                   Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:46:53 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:38:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs - Hall


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:38:08 -0300
>Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:59:31 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:37:58 -0700
>>>Subject: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

>>>Source: Wired.com

>>>http://www.wired.com/news/rants/0,2350,63489,00.html

>>>05-17-04

>>>Name: Guillermo Portales (guillportales.nul)
>>>Subject: Mexican Air Force Films UFOs

>>>People who are not aware of the current political crisis in
>>>Mexico will unfortunately be deceived by this staged
>>>performance, which further embarrasses our country in the eyes
>>>of the world ("Mexican Air Force Films UFOs," May 12, 2004). The
>>>federal government of Mexico has outdone itself by doing the
>>>most ridiculous PR stunt in the history of the modern world, by
>>>attempting (unsuccessfully at least in Mexico) to distract
>>>public attention from the terrible corruption scandals that are
>>>plaguing the country and have finally crushed people's faith in
>>>our government system.

>>>All UFO researchers who have been given false hopes by this
>>>story need to blame one man only, President Vicente Fox, in
>>>reality instructed by his wife Marta Sahagun to perform the
>>>wildest and most embarrassing political fiascoes of the last 100
>>>years of Mexican history. Our whole country is sinking quickly
>>>politically, socially and economically. Who knows what they'll
>>>come up with next instead of focusing on fixing our real
>>>problems.

>>Pardon me all to hell, but just what do you base this rather
>>wild and off-the-wall claim on? What is your evidence?

>Let's not shoot the messenger. The item is referenced to
>Wired.com . I do think it is a splendid example of the lengths
>to which debunkdom goes.

>Stan Friedman

Frank,

My apologies if you are just being a messenger with this.
However, when someone forwards a message without introduction
or comment, I (at least) am inclined to think that it represents
something the sender said or believes or thinks is important for
the List to read.

In future I suggest that anyone sending some extreme and
apparently sourceless statement such as this make some comment
about it and why they are sending it in order to avoid confusion
about their intentions.


 - Dick









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                           Nice Job UFO Magazine!

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:47:48 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:40:32 -0400
Subject: Nice Job UFO Magazine!


Just got the latest copy of UFO Magazine.

They had interviewed me last year regarding some sightings I'd
had in the Hudson Valley.

I supplied some graphics and they put together a tight, to the
point story, well laid out.

Thanks gang!


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

              Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:02:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:47:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Velez


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:01:42 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:19:46 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

<snip>

>>The skeptics are confounded by this case/video. Some have been
>>reduced to arguing about why the video was given to a UFO
>>researcher, as opposed to scientists, avoiding any discussion of
>>the case or the video altogether. Talk about shutting a lot of
>>mouths!

>This is the first shot in the "hoax" hypothesis! I recognise
>this from the history of the New Zealand sightings of December,
>1978. One must learn from history. In that case the chief
>skeptic (the only one who pad attention to what was going on)
>was,. of course, Phil Klass, and he was "reduced" to suggesting
>(in his book, The Public Deceived.... in which he deceived the
>public!) that that aircrew knew what they were looking at but
>didn't tell the news crew. In other words, allowing the news
>crew to go public claiming that the film showed UFOs was
>essentially a "hoax" on the part of the crew.

>In this case it is tougher for the skeptics because they would
>have to argue the sighting was a hoax by a government agency.

>>I also hope that in the process of analyzing the video no one
>>loses touch with the air-crew report part of it. There are
>>indications that the unidentified flying objects recorded are
>>under intelligent control. According to the report the events
>>unfolded as follows:

>>1. UFO spotted by radar operator.

Hi Bruce,

I wrote:

>>2. Officials decide to pursue/intercept the unknown. Orders are
>>issued and the airplane alters course toward the UFO.

You responded:

>This brings up another issue that I forgot to mention in the
>last message I wrote to you. The ground controllers were
>involved.

We don't need to wait for answer from Maussan on this one... the
military specialists in the crew do not conduct dangerous
missions, such as these are known to be, without providing the
crew the very best and most complete ground support that is
possible. I am dead certain that the Mexican military takes
every precaution and monitors very closely during each and every
second that their people are in the air and 'in harms way.'

We can pretty much assume that ground support data, radar etc.,
exists. Whether we can get the military to release that too is
another questionand one that needs to be asked of Jaime Maussan.

The highest ranking military official in Mexico (the Secretary
of National Defense) for whatever his reasons, chose Jaime as a
go between. Let's ask Jaime to put in a formal request for any
pertinent or corroborative ground support data/records. As long
as it doesn't violate or reveal any matters of military or
national security of course.

Every one of these missions must leave a paper and record trail
ten miles long. These guys do not work in a vacuum. It clearly
states in their report that they received "orders to pursue" the
(initial) UFO. Those commands came from the ground. Let's not
waste time asking if the data exists. Let's assume it is so and
just ask for the data itself. We already _know_ it's there.

>Was the ground radar being used at all? There has been
>no word I am aware of as to whether or not ground radar was
>involved.

It _had_ to be Bruce. No doubt about it. It would be the height
of stupidity and irresponsibility to send those people up to
hunt for drug smuggling bad-guys, isolated, all alone, without
heavy-duty monitoring and support on the ground.

BTW, these guys had to be armed to the teeth. Any mention of
weaponry on board the airplane? If so, what kind of weapons? If
I'm not mistaken, these drug interdiction planes are prepared to
force the bad-guys down on the deck if they have to.

The data _is_ there. It _has_to_be.

Bruce, a couple of questions if I may.

What do you make of the part of the report that mentions a 15
story high UFO? Did you know about it? The information caught me
by surprise as I was translating Jaime's report.

Speculative questions:

I am looking at a 1st generation DVD copy of the Mexican FLIR
footage. Inside of the 'corona' or 'halo' surrounding the UFOs
there appears to be several 'Nellis/Brazil style' multi-lobed
objects. Please tell me if you can detect the same shape.

In the footage, I see several 'sphere' shaped objects along with
what appears to be several examples of the Nellis/Brazil style
multi-lobed thing-a-ma-bobs. I'm going to post some single frame
captures shortly to illustrate what I'm talking about.

Two of the spheres' appear to have something resembling a
'gondola' that is suspended underneath. Is this 'gondola effect'
just a _reflection_ of some kind of the larger object/UFO above
it? I strongly suspect that it is just a reflection. Your take?

Absolutely fascinating material. Smoking gun? Could be. I'm
still waiting for the other shoe to drop.


Best,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

              Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

From: Stephen Bassett <SGBList2.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:11:24 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:49:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:30:27 -0700
>Subject: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>Source: Uselessknowledge.com
>http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/may087.html
>05-18-04

>Abduct My Wallet: Confessions of a UFO Hoaxer
>By Lee Shargel

>The Aliens are coming! The Aliens are coming! Folks don't
>believe it. The only aliens that are coming are sneaking under a
>fence somewhere along the Texas border. How can I be so sure?
>Well, for one thing we've caught a few of them and they don't
>have tentacles, ray guns or flying saucers. What they do have is
>bad breath, bad directions and a pocket full of jallopenos.
>Sorry, no mystery here.

<snip>

If men like Lee Shargel didn't exist, the CIA/DIA/NSA would have
to invent them.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

             Re: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:21:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:56:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets - Lehmberg


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:25:16 -0700
>Subject: Re: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:05:05 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Student Uncovers US Military Secrets

>>I hope that as a result of this article (see below)....

>>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/13/student_unlocks_military_secrets/

<snip>

>In other words, I was applying a technique that the above cited
>articles state professional cryptographers use. They recognize
>the overwhelming importance of applying proper context (how they
>reduce 1530 possibilities down to only one). It's too bad
>debunkers of the Ramey memo refuse to acknowledge this, instead
>trying to spin context as being prejudice or bias.

It remains that that is what they do, though, and that this is
done in the face all rational evidence to the contrary... to
preclude any advance to an illuminating conclusion, presumably.
And just why _is_ that, really, don't you wonder...


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

              Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

From: Tim SHell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:23:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:00:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:08:19 -0700
>Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>I hope you sleep well, Mr. Shargel. I couldn't.

Of course there have been times in the past (and there may be
some in the future) when the broader UFO community suddenly
loses all sense of perspective and critical thinking. These
times come and go like the flaps. But on the whole, and
particularly lately, I've noticed that there's a growing core of
UFO enthusiasts and investigators who have become extremely
critical of UFO claims and quick to point out obvious
inconsistencies and expose hoaxes.

These days the 'believers' often dig much deeper into the cases
than the "skeptics," and are much more critical. The
philosophical turn has been to go from "I believe," to "I
believe, but not in this particular case, until you show me some
very damned good verifiable evidence."

As far as Shargel goes, I recall quite clearly that he was
harshly criticized and dismissed as a flake or hoaxer by a large
portion of the UFO community. Like his exaggerations about
aliens, it appears that he also prefers to exaggerate his
thrilling success in duping the UFO world.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

             Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:47:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:04:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs


>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:38:25 -0700
>Subject: Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II

>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:01:09 -0400
>Subject: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II

>Corrections:

>From the original Spanish:

<snip>

>>Digno de comentar, es el hecho que de esta flotilla, sobresale la
>>presencia de un objeto de enormes proporciones que habr�a de
>>manifestarse durante el transcurso de la mision, esto, ante la
>>mirada atonita de los testigos; y que de acuerdo al testimonio
>>del piloto de al aeronave, podr�a haber tenido el tamano de un
>>edificio de 15 pisos, basandose en la lectura de la camara "FLIR".
>>Posteriormente los aparatos establecieron que aparentemente
>>los objetos rodeaban al avion.

>>Worthy of comment, is the fact that with this flotilla,
>>preceding it, was the presence of an object of enormous
>>proportions that made an appearance during the course of the
>>mission, this, before the amazed looks of the witnesses; and in
>>accordance with the testimony of the pilot of the airplane,
>>would have had to be the size of a fifteen story building. This
>>estimate being based on the readings from the "FLIR".
>>Subsequently the equipment helped to establish the fact that the
>>objects at one point _surrounded_ the airplane.

><snip>

Hi Diana,

You wrote:

>Are you saying here that besides the eleven lights/heat
>signatures, the crew saw (or registered on their instraments) an
>object that was as big as a 15 storey building? Is that what
>this means?

_I_ am not "saying" anything. All I have done is translate what
is there in the report. The _report_ describes a 15 story high
UFO. We'll all have to wait for Bruce Maccabee's analysis to
find out if anything that large is recorded on the Mexican FLIR
recording.

This giant UFO is an important issue. We need more information
about it. We also need to translate the audio recordings that
were made during the flight.

Jaime or Santiago:

What do either of you know about the crew testimony regarding
a gigantic UFO?


Regards,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:11:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:23:03 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Velez


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:22:38 +1000
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:24:02 -0500
>>Subject: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>These are transcript excerpts from the interviews with three
>>crew members directly involved in the Mexican Air Force C26A
>>plane incident on March 5, 2004 - conducted by researcher Jaime
>>Maussan as part of the investigation in April 2004.

><snip>

>>Question: Is it possible that the FLIR gave false information?

>>Answer: It is not posible. This was visual information of a
>>target that had both heat and movement, so it would not make
>>reference to something that was not there.

>>Question: Does the FLIR register hot air?

>>Answer: No. FLIR doesn't register hot air, it registers an
>>object that generates heat.

>>Question: Then the eleven objects that were detected by the
>>FLIR were generating heat. Were these objects there even though
>>you couldn't see them with your eyes?

>>Answer: They were there, and we have the data references by
>>their positions. They were on our left side, at the same
>>laltitude and the same speed.

>>Question: How much heat were the objects generating?

>>Answer. We ran several measurements trying to get an image and
>>all the time the targets registered very hot. We never found any
>>irregular shape, they were spherical all the time.

>I was just curious to see what type of UFO was filmed in the
>Mexican footage by the Infrared camera so run a series of
>grabbed stills from the footage through a false colour
>enhancement procedure. To my surprise, they resulted in images
>identical to the hoax device stills I have worked on over the
>last several years.

>I find the statements in the interview above particularly
>significant. These statements could well confirm what I have
>found in the images.

>If your have an interest in this case, than I strongly suggest
>you have a study of the images on my UFO web page at...

>http://theozfactor.cjb.net/mexicoufo.htm

>If you are into image enhancement, I suggest you do the same.
>The evidence may just reveal itself by comparison with known
>object analysis.


Hello Barry,

Quickly... I don't want to waste too much time on this.

The objects in the Mexican video are travelling _faster_ than
the Mexican military airplane that recorded them. (Using the
FLIR system.) The Mexican airplane was travelling at 200 + MPH
during the mission which means that the UFOs had to be moving
faster than that in order to overtake and then pass by the
airplane in the sky. (At one point _surrounding_ the airplane.)

Barry, your suggestion is intended as a joke, right?

I'll tell you what, the day you can get one of your balloon
"Hoax devices" to fly laterally at approximately 12,000 ft.
altitude while moving fast enough to overtake, surround and then
pass an airplane that is travelling at 200 + mph, I will give
your not thought out too well explanation consideration. I
promise.

In the meantime, we move onward....


John Velez







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                Re: Anyone Been Asked By Media To Comment On

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:13:03 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:26:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Anyone Been Asked By Media To Comment On


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:12:33 EDT
>Subject: Anyone Been Asked By Media To Comment On Mexican UFO?

>Just curious with all the chatter if anyone has been asked by
>the media to comment on the Mexican UFO case?

>I've seen bits and heard soundbytes but no long drawn thorough
>analysis.

>Some of you have had quotes appear in snippets here and there
>and considering the dominating news regarding the Iraqi prisoner
>abuse scandal I'm suprised this story saw the light of day which
>is a testament to how important and how interested the public
>is!

>Thank goodness for Errol and Rense and Noory.


I was asked for comments by a Halifax Radio Station that has had
me on in the past. MSNBC had me on Last Thursday Night with
Keith Olberman. No 1 story last 3 minutes of the show. No
laughter or ridicule. I have been talking to the local Canadian
Press representative... don't know whether she will do anything
or not.


Stan Friedman









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

             Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:32:01 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
May 20, 2004


Source: Proyecto Orion
Date: 05.20.04

UFO Crashes In Venezuela?

An unidentified flying object crashed last Saturday, May 15,
2004 in the vicinity of the Raul Leoni Hydroelectric Station,
also known as the Guri Dam, located on the Caroni River some 100
kilometers from the mouth of the Orinoco River at Puerto Ordaz,
Ciudad Bolivar (updated information).

The accident, which occurred in the early hours of last
Saturday, was witnessed by workers of the dam in question and
took place to the northwest of this location. Stringent security
measures were taken immediately by active members of the
National Guard, who proceeded to cordon off the area. The
presence of U.S. personnel was also observed, a common feature
in all crashes involving UFOs.

It must be noted that the Seismography Unit registered movement
at the time of the unusual accident, a detail reminiscent of the
Roswell, New Mexico (USA) event of 1947.

With regard to an alien presence, no reports have been received
at this time.

Access to the crash site has been highly complicated due to
torrential rains at the site during this time of year. However,
accredited personnel from Proyecto Orion are on site, collecting
information that shall be broadened in coming hours.

05/19/2004

Source: Proyecto Orion - http://www.proyecto-orion.com/

=================================================================

Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Christian Quintero, PlanetaUFO








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

              Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:36:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:39:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:30:27 -0700
>Subject: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>Source: Uselessknowledge.com

>http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/may087.html

>05-18-04

>Abduct My Wallet: Confessions of a UFO Hoaxer

>By Lee Shargel

<snip>

>I was booked into a UFO convention in Philadelphia were I
>presented photos of the actual spacship that had crashed in
>Roswell, New Mexico. I blew them away with showmanship and P.T.
>Barnum hucksterisms. And I'll be darned, it worked. I thought,
>"Hey, there's money to be mined in these Black Hills of Alien
>Wonder." Note: Around this time our little blue planet had a
>celestial visitor named Hale-Bopp. So, thinking I should jump on
>the comet bandwagon, I rode the tail of this comet all the way
>to the bank and stopped off briefly for a two hour stint on Art
>Bell's Coast to Coast radio broadcast where I stated with a sci-
>fi preface that a "Companion" was following the comet. This
>created quite a stir and unbeknownst to me then, was heard by a
>small group of people in San Diego, who called themselves,
>Heaven's Gate.

Yeah, don't pat yourself on the back too hard, Shargel... you
might break your hand, which you've probably done already. I
remember seeing Shargel on a news program after Heaven's Gate,
and he was still making his alien claims and having no problem
riding on the backs of the dead at Heaven's Gate. Sick is the
only word that comes to mind here.....

>I was invited to be the guest speaker at the
>International UFO Congress's annual meeting held in Laughlin,
>Nevada. There I would bring the audience to tears with my tales
>of abductions, governemnt conspiracies, photos of flying saucers
>(created in Hollywood of all places) Dolphinoid Aliens (Yeah
>that was one of my best) and a little piece of alien spacecraft.
>I saw first hand how these Alien Carnival barkers were picking
>the pockets (just as I was unashamedly doing at the time) of the
>thousands of attendees that travelled from all over the world
>and beyond, (Hey, you never know) to have their ears tickled by
>speculation and out right lies. As far as I was concerned, this
>was the height of entertainment. Everything was going fine until
>it was discovered that I was encroaching on the territory and
>the profits of this alien mafia.

Everything was fine, indeed. Until Shargel got hammered by some
people not willing to buy his obviously doctored photos and
alien fertilizer. 'Egyptian Quantum Mechanics'? Please.....

I've said it a dozen times: Cutting yourself and waving a bloody
finger at everyone else isn't really all that admirable. Really,
what is the point of this shamelessly awful piece of trash
Shargel squatted out? Just when I think I've seen every
parasitic piece of trash in this field, and I think they've out-
 done themselves by pushing the envelope completely off the
table, I see one more crawl out from under a rock and can't help
but be astonished by the sheer audacity and insanity in which
they kick the envelope straight out into the street.

This latest "look how phony I was/look at how cool I am" piece
from Shargel is along the same lines of Hannibal Lecter telling
Jeffrey Dahmer cannibalism and murder are just wrong and really
don't go together.

>I was accosted by the UFO congressional leadership, (who voted
>for these BOZOS anyway?) who threatened my very existence unless
>I was to cease and desist from this foul game I was playing.
>They had this turf covered and there was no room for the likes
>of me. Oh, unless I wanted to share the profits of my alien
>gotten gain. I refused and was banished to Bogeyland. (That's
>internet Hell in case you were wondering.)

Golly, imagine that - no honor among UFO liars and thieves...
hmmmmm.

>And so as they say, the rest is history. I was cast into the
>abyss of the remainder pile at my local bookstore, forced to
>tolerate the myriad of lies written about me and posted on the
>internet and finally suffered the greatest of humilations, my
>publisher took the money and ran!

No one forced this clown to do anything and he was forced out
when he was exposed as a phony, which he seems to not want to
mention. Several researchers were on to Shargel and his 'plan'
from the word go. Yes, not all in this field are gullible
half-wits as Shargel makes everyone out to be, and indeed those
within this community have and do expose frauds.

>Well, I rebounded in cool New
>York style. (I am from the Bronx!) I began writing magazine
>articles and screenplays again. I started a feature film
>company, FilmWorks LSD ("Indie Filmmaking - It's a Trip!") and I
>have a new book coming out that has absolutely nothing to do
>with aliens or the pickpockets that represent them. Now, Ain't
>that America?

A parasite working in the film business... imagine that. Surely,
this must be a first. ;-) My God, we _are_ in America!

For anyone wanting to look at Shargel's "feature film company",
you can get a gander at this b-movie looking project here:

http://www.sibotmotion.com/index.html

And Shargel has now taken a lesson from Sean David Morton by
posting pictures of himself with celebrities in an attempt to
appear important and connected.

By the way, someone should tell Shargel his little 'confession'
is a bit late... what a moron.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

              Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:40:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:43:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:08:19 -0700
>Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:30:27 -0700
>>Subject: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>>Source: Uselessknowledge.com

>>http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/may087.html

>>05-18-04

>I had some inkling Mr. Shargel wasn't legit, but this confirms my
>suspicions.

>>Abduct My Wallet: Confessions of a UFO Hoaxer

>>By Lee Shargel

<snip>

>Are you sorry, remorseful or are these folks also at the level of
>your "Aliens" so sneeringly referenced above?

Come on now GT, according to Shargel this IS America and that
sort of activity is something to be proud of.  What are a few
dead cultists after all in light of the bigger picture of taking
pride in and profiting from them?

I'm sitting here and I am literally sickened by this smoking
anus Shargel.....


--Royce










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                 Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:42:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:46:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:04:24 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions


>Last weekend at San Francisco's 'Wired NextFest 2004' there were
>many UFO-type technologies showcased there.

Hi Nick,

Whoa! Hold it right there. That statement it appears to presume
that you know considerable about UFO technologies. Do you? If
so, please share it with us? If not, then the statement is very
possibly misleading. What was there may not really be "UFO-type"
technologies at all. Do we rightly call a magician who fakes
'telepathy' a telepath? Do we conclude that the white bunny
actually materialized in the magician's hat?

My point is that the real UFO technology may be orders of
magnitude more wonderful than anything we've dreamed up to date,
even though some of our technology might superficially seem to
resemble UFO technology.

So, let us address such matters with due objectivity, with
respect, and in full view of our own lack of in-depth knowledge.

>Some of these include the amazing invisibility coat

>http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_747591.html

>and the giant spherical UFO-like airship
>http://www.21stcenturyairships.com/

>Technology we thought we did not have is already in the public
>domain and available to everyone.

"We thought we did not have..."?!

Who but the uninformed does not know that the U.S. has had
visual stealth technology for aircraft over a decade ago? It has
been discussed in many places over the past decade, and even
illustrated on the cover of Popular Science or Popular Mechanics
(one of the two, I do not recall which, because it has been so
long ago).

Then: 21st Century's balloon airships are UFO-like? Some UFOs
(whatever they are) may be spherical, but in my own experience
and case studies, odd things in the sky that are spherical
usually turn out to be balloons, although there are some reports
wherein UFOs are described (within the limits of observer
reliability or perception) as spherical. But certainly the
balloon type craft produced in Canada could not move at high
speeds, make 90-degree and 180-degree turns at high speeds, stop
'on a dime', accelerate to incredible speeds very quickly, etc.,
as classical UFOs certainly do, to say nothing of a lack of the
classical peripheral air-glow features. So, why call it "UFO-
 like"?

Someone may object, saying that the visually unseen Mexico-
Campeche 'things' we have been discussing are spherical, but
that is only an interpretation of a two-dimensional image, which
is all the infrared imaging system used is capable of giving us,
and even that image is highly edge-diffused, as an expert on the
system has pointed out. We can say that those amazing things in
Mexico seem have been emitting infrared radially (possibly in
all directions), but that does not really constrain the actual
shape of the emission source. I suppose that if string theory is
right, the source might not even be three-dimensional! :-o

Thanks for sharing, Nick; but please try to be a bit more
objective when interpreting possible UFO technology in the
context of our own. The two might be highly disparate, even if
superficially similar in our perceptions. Have you been involved
in this long enough (or, alternately, historically enough) to
remember Aime Michel's "Grisson paradox". :) (I hope I have
Michel's cat's name spelled correctly, after all these years.)
If not have not heard of it, you might do well to read what
Michel had to say.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                           UFO Over Ubate Colombia

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:46:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:51:12 -0400
Subject: UFO Over Ubate Colombia


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
May 20, 2004


Source: EL TIEMPO.COM
Date: May 20, 2004

UFO Flies Over Ubate; Locals Claim Constantly Seeing Strange
Lights


The photographs recently taken by a photographer substantiate
eyewitness reports of UFOs seen over the municipality. David
Lopez, in spite of his long experience as a photographer, was
never able to take a shot of the Basilica Menor of Ubate - a
municipality in which he has lived for 25 years - framed by an
inmense rainbow. "It would make a lovely postcard," he would
think.

However, some two weeks ago, as though a gift from above, the
multi-hued rainbow appeared beside the church. It was Monday and
the time was barely five o'clock in the afternoon.

Armed with his digital camera, placed over a heavy jacket, Lopez
headed toward the town's central square and fired off three or
four shots with flash without anything unusual occurring, until
he ran into his friend Jaime Jaramillo, an old friend who said
"I'll buy one" later on.

But the surprise came afterwards: when David opened the image
files on his computer, a small white dot, first to the left of
the rainbow and then appearing on the right, had manifested
itself in the photos. The dot, as he opened one file then
another, acquired red and violet hues.

"When I took the photo I never saw anything like that. They were
simply there, on my computer screen," he said excitedly.

Lopez, who claims having seen UFOs when he worked as an air
traffic controller at the El Dorado airport, isn't the only one
to speak of UFOs. William Chavez, a Colombian ufological expert,
who is currently studying the phenomenon that occurred in
Mexico, corroborated Lopez's photos.

The fact is that that there are plenty of eyewitness accounts to
go around. Mrs. Dolores Cruz (pseudonym), a former nurse in the
municipality, claims that a few days after Lopez took his photos
she saw "something very strange".

"On the evening of May 3, after I'd finished praying the Rosary
on the terrace of my house, I saw something like a balloon about
to collide with the church steeple. Then it remained still,
suspended in mid-air. It  passed over the Telecom tower and
accelerated so much that I wasn't able to see it," she said.

Another eyewitness account comes from town notary Jorge
Castellanos, who also claims seeing "oval shapes" crossing the
skies. Aliens? Who knows. The fact is that towering structures
such as the demolished Twin Towers, the Egyptian Pyramids, the
Greek Acropolis or the Eiffel Tower have always had tales of
spaceships prowling in their vicinity... and thus, Ubate now has
its own.


Translation (c) 2004. IHU
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

             Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:42:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:55:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:55:59 +0200
>Subject: Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:01:09 -0400
>>Subject: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II

><snip>

>>"Worthy of comment, is the fact that with this flotilla,
>>preceding it, is the presence of an object of enormous
>>proportions that made an appearance during the course of the
>>mission," [referring to a 15 story high UFO]

Hi Gildas, All,

You wrote:

>To John, Santiago & All

>Is this just an opinion, or is it based on observations which
>would have been made, presumably, on the radar screen?

For me, the discovery of this detail was like stepping on a
land-mine. Bear in mind that I CAME across the information while
innocently translating the report. Suddenly, BLAM-O! There it
was! My brain exploded. It blew me right out of my socks.

>Is there a recording of it?

The _only_way_ that they were able to "see" anything, was via
the radar and the FLIR. I have the FLIR footage. There's a lot
of it too. At the end there is a section of recording that shows
a pretty large object. This 'may be' the giant UFO in question.
I don't know. We'll all just have to hold our horses and give
Bruce Maccabee all help, information and the breathing space he
needs to complete and publish his analysis. I'm certain that he
will tell us what he can about the speed, size and distance of
these objects.

If it is determined that an image of an object of those
proportions is evidenced on the FLIR recording, _then_ we will
have something serious to deal with and consider.

>This may be a very important aspect of the case, and it seems to
>me that is should be discussed here.

My theory is, most people are experiencing one stage or another
of genuine shock.

Debunkers especially have been struck dumb. In their full-out
'rush to judgement' they carelessly make mistakes in method and
judgement as they stumble and drool all over themselves. They
need a serious wake-up call. That is why research people like
Maccabee and a handful of others are such a valuable and rare
commodity.

Thank the Major we've got em! We would be one sorry lot without
them! ;)


Best,

John







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                          Ohsweken Ontario 05-19-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:22:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:04:32 -0400
Subject: Ohsweken Ontario 05-19-04


This is the first of 9 new sighting reports that have just come
in:

---

Ohsweken, Ontario

[An Island on Georgian Bay, North-West of Penetanguishene]

Date:  May 19 2004
Time:  10:40 p.m.

Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 3
Shape of objects: Star-like lights in triangular formation

Full Description of event/sighting: Went outside May 19, about
10:30 with telescope to observe Comet Neat. At about 10:40 pm,
in a small field, I was busy at the telescope when my boyfriend
said, "Look at that" as he pointed nearly above us.

At first I believed it was a shooting star, but then I noticed
that there were 3 star like lights in a tight triangular
formation. After a couple of seconds they vanished.

My boyfriend said when he first saw them, he too thought it was
a shooting star but then realized that there were 3 star-like
lights traveling in a straight line. He said they suddenly fell
into the triangular formation, then spun and one of the side
lights took lead of the triangle. A few seconds later they were
gone.

The lights were nearly directly above, traveling from the south
and headed north. They zipped right past Polaris before fading
away. They emitted no noise, had no flashing lights, had no
tails or left no jet streams. The entire event only lasted about
5 or 6 seconds.

---

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                        Provo Canyon Utah UFO Picture

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:11:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:11:32 -0400
Subject: Provo Canyon Utah UFO Picture




Source: ABC 4 TV News - Salt Lake City, Utah

http://www.4utah.com/local_news/local_headlines/story.aspx?content_id=582FA455-0
EB3-45AC-A00D-9CA5CCC6EC25

5-20-04

UFO On Film

[picture]

To the naked eye, Tommy Woodard's digital photograph appears to
be nothing more than a pretty picture of trees in Provo Canyon.

But zoom in, he says, and the purple glow of a saucer hovering
at an angle above the tree line starts to take shape.

Woodard, 22, a photo librarian with the Utah Film Commission,
took the photo that he believes represents an unidentified
flying object.

He was in the canyon Tuesday shooting still pictures for a
possible film location, and began taking pictures for himself on
his way out.

At the time, he didn't see anything out of the ordinary in his
photograph. But later, after noticing a black speck in the
frame, he zoomed in and "the closer I got, the more impressed I
got by it," he said Thursday.

"I was kind of skeptical but it's pretty obvious when you zoom
in," said the self-described "sci-fi" fan, whose friends and
colleagues are similarly impressed.

Woodard said he's a "believer" because the recent photograph is
not his first encounter with mysterious flying objects. Once,
playing baseball at the age of 10, he saw three blurry gray
spheres rotating in the sky. Within a moment, they were gone.

Woodard contacted officials at Hill Air Force Base to ask if any
planes were flying in the canyon area Tuesday but hasn't heard
back yet. "They kind of laughed, you know," he said.

Hill Air Force Base spokeswoman Lt. Caroline Wellman told The
Associated Press on Thursday she is awaiting response from the
388th Fighter Wing whether any of their F-16 jets were above
Provo Canyon Tuesday.

Another skeptical reaction to the digital photograph came from a
representative of the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle -
- he said thought the sphere looked like a bird.

"A bird?" asked Woodard in disbelief. "Come on -- I don't know
how he could think it's a bird!"

Woodard discounted the theory that the image could be nothing
more than a speck of dust on his film. Of the hundred photos he
shot Tuesday, none contained a similar mark, he said.

The Provo Canyon photograph is not the first reported UFO
sighting this year to immediately get debunkers.

In March, the Mexican air force captured images of bright blurs
in the sky using infrared equipment. The videotape aired on
television for the first time last week, with one scientist
saying the objects could have been caused by gases in the
atmosphere.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                   Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:01:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:45:10 -0400
Subject: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer?



May 21, 2004

Dear Friends of Inexplicata:

It was with a mixture of amazement and amusement that I read the
following two paragraphs, which were forwarded to me by a friend
in Australia. It seems that Santiago Yturria, whose information
I have always circulated when he has sent it to me, is now
accusing me of somehow being "a disinformer" and of having a
grudge against him and his principal, Mr. Maussan.

For the record, I don't know either of these gentlemen.

These are the two paragraphs in question:


"The recent discredit campaign against the case and the Mexican
Secretary of Defense handled by common debunkers disguised as
objective researchers like Scott Corrales and his obscure
Institute of Hispanic Ufology whom has a record of continued
debunking attacks on every major UFO case released in Mexico and
indiscriminate attacks on most of the important Mexican
researchers. Corrales debunking campaign is clear publishing
every negative article on the news against the case, the
researcher Jaime Maussan and the Secretary of Defense General
Clemente Vega as part of his hidden agenda helped by his allies
like the Fundacion Cosmos group, a minor unknown Mexican amateur
group of skeptic debunkers who only recollect news clips from
the Mexican newspapers and the Internet.

The Mexican Air Force UFO incident is certainly a high level
case of transcendental proportions in our Ufology and one of the
world's most important breaking news in recent times. It's
useless the effort that debunkers like Rafael Navarro, Scott
Corrales and the other skeptics are doing to disqualify the case
and discredit Secretary of Defense General Vega trying to change
the course of history. There's no way back and history has been
written."


Okay, let me see if I got this right: not singing the praises of
Mr. Maussan makes me a disinformer and indiscriminate attacker?
The Institute of Hispanic Ufology, which is obscure because none
of its members have been particularly interested in appearing on
television or at conferences, is a vehicle for providing
information to the UFO community at large, not a platform to
further the claims of one particular researcher or another.

IHU makes no claims as to its importance, nor do I have any
delusions as to my own place in the scheme of things. However, I
will take exception at seeing the members of Fundacion Cosmos,
AC or Centro de Estudios de Fenomenos Paranormales (CEFP)
described as "minor amateur groups", much less "skeptic
debunkers", which they most certainly are not now, nor have ever
been.

In fact, in its role as "the little engine that could", IHU's
journal--INEXPLICATA-- has been able to feature the work of some
truly gifted researchers whose credentials cannot be impeached
by Mr. Yturria's insinuations: Manuel Carballal, Josep Guijarro,
Rafael Lara Palmeros, Carlos Iurchuk, Guillermo Gimenez, Lucy
Guzman, Magdalena Freixedo and Javier Garcia Blanco, aside from
contributions from giants in the field like Bob Pratt, George
Andrews and Salvador Freixedo.

So that's my reply to Mr. Yturria's letter. I return to the
isolation of my cybernetic cave to keep bringing you the latest
information on UFO and paranormal happenings in Spain, the
Caribbean, Central and South America.

Very best regards,

Scott Corrales
Director, Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Editor, Inexplicata-The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
www.geocities.com/inexplicata2000/









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

              Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:58:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:14:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:11:28 -0300
>Subject: Re: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:30:27 -0700
>>Subject: Abduct My Wallet: Confessions Of A UFO Hoaxer

>>Source: Uselessknowledge.com

>>http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/may087.html

>>05-18-04

>>Abduct My Wallet: Confessions of a UFO Hoaxer

>>By Lee Shargel

>>The Aliens are coming! The Aliens are coming! Folks don't
>>believe it. The only aliens that are coming are sneaking under a
>>fence somewhere along the Texas border. How can I be so sure?
>>Well, for one thing we've caught a few of them and they don't
>>have tentacles, ray guns or flying saucers. What they do have is
>>bad breath, bad directions and a pocket full of jallopenos.
>>Sorry, no mystery here.

><snip>

>It is interesting that this hoaxer doesn't mention that a number
>of us spoke out about, and against him, because his story didn't
>hold together. No reason all of us should take the blame for the
>gullible ones out there.

Yes, we did. There were a number of red flags that went up, not
the least of which was his claim to having a degree in Egyptian
Quantum Mechanics (probably conferred when demonstrating one's
uncertainty in reading heiroglyphics), or his blatantly phoney
Roswell craft photo which perfectly matched up with a part from
a Hoover vacuum cleaner, or his phoney photos of intelligent ET
dolphins! This guy was a joke even to those who are gullible.


Bill Hamilton








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

             Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:19:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:57:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Myers


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:01:43 -0400
>Subject: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer?

>May 21, 2004

>Dear Friends of Inexplicata:

>It was with a mixture of amazement and amusement that I read the
>following two paragraphs, which were forwarded to me by a friend
>in Australia. It seems that Santiago Yturria, whose information
>I have always circulated when he has sent it to me, is now
>accusing me of somehow being "a disinformer" and of having a
>grudge against him and his principal, Mr. Maussan.

>For the record, I don't know either of these gentlemen.

>These are the two paragraphs in question:

>"The recent discredit campaign against the case and the Mexican
>Secretary of Defense handled by common debunkers disguised as
>objective researchers like Scott Corrales and his obscure
>Institute of Hispanic Ufology whom has a record of continued
>debunking attacks on every major UFO case released in Mexico and
>indiscriminate attacks on most of the important Mexican
>researchers. Corrales debunking campaign is clear publishing
>every negative article on the news against the case, the
>researcher Jaime Maussan and the Secretary of Defense General
>Clemente Vega as part of his hidden agenda helped by his allies
>like the Fundacion Cosmos group, a minor unknown Mexican amateur
>group of skeptic debunkers who only recollect news clips from
>the Mexican newspapers and the Internet.
<snip>

Scott Corrales, disinformationalist/debunker...LOL!  Sure, sure.

If Corrales if a disinfo agent, then I'm head of the Sean David
Morton fan club.  Coralles has done nothing but served as a
conduit for reporting and sharing cases from Latin America, the
man is a credit to this field.

If Maussan has a credibility problem (i.e.: people not beliving
him or casting ridicule upon any case he's asociated with), it's
of his own doing.  Maussan has made himself an easy target due
to his past UFO antics and promotion of frauds.  It really is
too bad, because now that a seemingly legitimate case has landed
in his lap, his mere association with it is going to cause
problems.  I recall saying this very thing in a past posting to
this list.

And as for someone needing to call someone's work or
organization 'obscure' or 'minor', I've really never understood
the need for people in this field to inflate themsleves nor the
need to engage in such petty garbage by going around to someone
else, spreading BS, but never having the courtesy or common
sense to go directly to the source.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                   Re: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004 - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:30:11 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:00:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004 - Hale


>From: Chris Parr <Chrissyparr.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 04:08:03 EDT
>Subject: Re: Lord Hill-Norton 1915 - 2004

>The memory of Lord Hill Norton and his valiant pursuit to find
>answers to the UFO enigma will never be forgotten in British UFO
>studies.


List,

I am sorry to hear Lord Hill Norton has passed away, my
sympathies go to his imediate family.

Do we know the circumstances of his death? Only he looked fine a
few months back, was this a prolonged illness, or something that
just took hold quickly?

As Lord Hill Norton once answered a question on the UFO cover-up.

"The Minister, rather doggedly dodged my questions!"


Roy








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

             Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:34:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:55:26 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:32 -0400
>Subject: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>It must be noted that the Seismography Unit registered movement
>at the time of the unusual accident, a detail reminiscent of
>the Roswell, New Mexico (USA) event of 1947.


Hello List

Not only the Roswell incident - check the "earthquake" at time of
Berwyns event.

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/berwyns.txt for references.

When an inertia-less drive (capable of lifting large mass out of
a gravity field) is accidentally or purposely driven into
Earth's surface - what d'you expect?

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jan/m19-012.shtml
for earlier reference.

That's three `crashes' - three earthquakes.

I don't think _we_ have an inertia-less drive. Do you?

Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
real mail is CC'd edfile.nul
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
recipients can prevent abuse by fake / frauds
FWD dodgy / fake mail for tracing by your ISP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                     SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:44:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:02:26 -0400
Subject: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question



SOURCE: La Cronica de Hoy
DATE: 05/17/2004


SEDENA AND THE UFO QUESTION
by Raul Trejo Delarbre

Perhaps we shall never know the cause behind the images recorded
by the Mexican Air Force on March 5, 2004 over Campeche and
which Televisa broadly displayed a week ago. The quality of the
video that caused so much interest is poor. Above all, the
hypotheses turned into certainties by those who seek
confirmation of extraterrestrial visitation in each
manifestation of infrequent events, have negated any possibility
of a scientific discussion of these facts.

The existence or non-existence of other worlds has been the
subject of countless discussions and ruminations. The ease with
which this matter is invested with esoteric allusions, and with
a sometimes successful commercialization of bewilderment, makes
its public examination particularly difficult.

It is therefore noteworthy that when it had the recorded
testimony of a phenomenon that it could not explain, the
Secretariat of National Defense (SEDENA) did not seek an opinion
based on scientific research.

There exist within our country research groups on atmospheric
and astronomic matters made up of academicians of acknowledged
international merit. Rather than appealing to them, SEDENA,
responsible for the national security of all Mexicans, turned to
a journalist known for his convictions regarding the
extraterrestrial origin of UFOs.

Jaime Maussan's interest in such matters goes back years. He has
offered considerable evidence of is tenacity in broadcasting
what he believes are expressions of life from other planets on
our own. Such work may merit diverging opinions. But regardless,
it is clear that Maussan has already formed a point of view
about the meaning of UFOs. For this reason, his opinion is not
the most objective when it comes to ruling on the meaning of a
video such as the one recorded by the Air Force, and much less
when it comes to broadcasting said material. However, from among
all of the scientific, media, professional or esoteric options
possible, SEDENA sought out Maussan.

[In the video] can be seen the infrared camera images installed
on a military twin-engine aircraft engaged in a patrol mission
between Chiapas and Campeche. After radar reported the presence
of what appeared to be other aircraft, the crew was perplexed by
the fact that  they could not see them unaided. For that reason
they employed the infrared camera whose recording we have come
to know through TV.

SEDENA then sought Maussan's counsel. The journalists webpage
says: "On April 20, Lic. Jaime Maussan was summoned to the
headquarters of the National Defense for an initial encounter
with the high command of our country's armed forces in order to
brief him on the specifics of the case and two days later, he
was given a video copy of the encounter of the MERLIN C26/A
aircraft of the Mexican Air Force in order to undertake all
pertiennt investigations and subsequent transmission to the
public opinion of the various information media in our country
and the world at large. All of this with the approval of Gen.
Ricardo Clemente, head of the Mexican Armed Forces (the
secretary's full name is Gerardo Clemente Ricardo Vega Garc=EDa).

Maussan broadcast the video, presenting it as confirmation of
the hypotheses which have made him a celebrity. It is not his
behavior that is odd - rather, it is that of the Secretariat of
Defense.

Consulted by the media, scientists such as astronomer Jose de la
Herran suggested that the objects picked up on the recording
could have been meteorite fragments. Others, such as Jose de
Jesus Franco, director of the UNAM's Insitute of Astronomy,
stated that it could have been "an atmospheric phenomenon known
as ball lightning." In any event, none of them have had the
opportunity to inspect the recording because SEDENA only turned
over to the aformentioned journalist.

Faced with questions about its behavior, National Defense has
chosen secrecy and censure. In a letter sent to La Jornada to
protest the sarcastic treatment given by one of the newspaper's
cartoonists to the cited news item, Brig.Gen. D.E.M. Efren
Mart=EDnez Guzman, Defense General Director of Social
Communication, explains that when they had the video in their
hands, the Secretariat's officials had "two options: either file
it away as secret or turn it over to a person knowledgeable of
the subejct, in an effort to keep the matter from becoming a
joke."

Since that did not happen, and SEDENA's behavior has merited
suspicion, General Martinez Guzman considers that the chapter:
"teaches us that nothing at all be provided in subsequent
occasions, especially when the information was provided in good
faith and only for the public's awareness."


Raul Trejo Delarbre

rtrejod.nul
http://raultrejo.tripod.com
Source: http://www.cronica.com.mx/


Translation (c) 2004. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Christian Hernan Quintero, PlanetaUFO.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

               Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Allan

From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:50:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:04:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal" - Allan


>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:05:28 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal"

>>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:35:32 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Sighting "No Big Deal"

><snip>

>>This is for everyone:

>>I'm not one for looking a gift horse in the mouth but... doesn't
>>it strike anyone as odd that the Mexican Air Force made a
>>deliberate effort to seek out Jaime Maussan to tell him this
>>information and make the footage available to broadcast all over
>>the world?

>>Before we run around promoting this footage as proof of UFO's,
>>we need to examine this case and the surrounding sociopolitical
>>variables carefully and objectively.

>I find the fact that the Mexican's gave the evidence to a UFO
>researcher troubling too - perhaps because I worked for a former
>Canadian Prime Minister for a long time and think a scenario
>like this would be inconceivable here. I don't know how the
>Mexican government works, but here the Department of Defence
>would need clearance to hand over what could be regarded as
>sensitive information to the public. That said, Mexico is not
>Canada.

>However, since we're all speculating, here's a possibility. The
>Mexican government released the evidence to a UFO researcher
>because Mexico is speculating that the US illegally invaded
>Mexican airspace using secret stealth technology. Not wanting to
>confront the US directly, they release the info to a UFO
>researcher so it gives the world a "heads up" as to advanced
>technology the US may have. Or Mexico and the US (the US has
>called Mexico its "best friend") jointly worked on this project
>in order to put fear into other countries that the US has
>advanced technology and so gave the info to a UFO researcher.
>Under these two hypothetical scenarios, the info would be given
>to a UFO researcher because if it had been given to scientists
>it would have been studied and then buried without public
>knowledge.

>So, the question is: Why did Mexico want worldwide coverage of
>this event, at risk of humiliating their country
>internationally?

>That Mexico gave the evidence to a UFO researcher is, to me, the
>fly in the ointment. I smell a rat.

Strange isn't it?

Governments are so often accused of cover-up. Then when one of them
(Mexico) decides to hand over a hot case to a private UFO researcher
for study, people still suspect something is wrong. Like a cover-up
in reverse.

Perhaps the Mexican authorities have a good idea what the
objects are, but want to let certain ufologists in on the affair
to see if the latter end up with egg on their faces.
Inconceivable you say?

Rather than rush to judgment, skeptics should wait until a
plausible answer presents itself. (But when it does, it will
still be rejected by ufologists).

Let's wait and see.


CDA







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                 Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:38:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:08:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack -


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:02:19 -0400
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:01:42 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

<snip>

Regarding your comments on ground radar ("there must have been"),
if that is so then we need it. It is possible, howver that they were
flying too far away from a ground radar. I just don't know, but
someone does!

Also, if you have a complete copy of the video, note that I need
a translation of that !. I have requested one from Jaime, but he
hasn't said I'll get one. When I did the New Zealand sightings
investigation 25 years ago I was greatly aided by having the
translation of the air traffic control center tape. It is needed
here to establish whatever connection is possible between the
radar and the flir lights.

Note that according to recently published crew interview the
radar picked up 2 objects in front and one directly behind (180
Az?).

However, the "twins" (two very bright lights side by side) and
the line of "double triplets plus the kids" was picked up by the
flir at the left and behind (135 AZ) where there were,
apparently NO radar targets. Also note that my estimate of cloud
distances suggests that these lights were over 15 miles away
(not 2 miles) (from about 1700 to 1710).

>The data _is_ there. It _has_to_be.

OK, Let's get it.

>Bruce, a couple of questions if I may.

>What do you make of the part of the report that mentions a 15
>story high UFO? Did you know about it? The information caught me
>by surprise as I was translating Jaime's report.

Don't know how they could reasonably estimate size except by
noting that the target image is large and infer that the size of
the image is proportional to the size of the object.... which is
wrong for extremely bright images that cause detectable internal
reflections in the camera. For bright images the size of the
image grows with brightness. Thus, a golf ball at a mile ought
to make a "point" image, bt if the golf ball radiates like the
sun it might make an image 10 or a 100 times larger than a
"point."

>Speculative questions:

>I am looking at a 1st generation DVD copy of the Mexican FLIR
>footage. Inside of the 'corona' or 'halo' surrounding the UFOs
>there appears to be several 'Nellis/Brazil style' multi-lobed
>objects. Please tell me if you can detect the same shape.

Have to be careful about deducing shape from extremely bright
images like these. The optical system itself causes distortions.
For example, look at the moon image... it is elliptical at
17:19:32. I am skeptical of "15 stories high". We can't relate
the image size to the object size until we know the distance.

Without radar contact it is "difficult" if not impossible to know
the distance.

The halo is a result of reflections inside the camera. These
reflections always occur, but usually they are too dim to
register in the background "noise" of the scene and electronics.

>In the footage, I see several 'sphere' shaped objects along with
>what appears to be several examples of the Nellis/Brazil style
>multi-lobed thing-a-ma-bobs. I'm going to post some single frame
>captures shortly to illustrate what I'm talking about.

>Two of the spheres' appear to have something resembling a
>'gondola' that is suspended underneath. Is this 'gondola effect'
>just a _reflection_ of some kind of the larger object/UFO above
>it? I strongly suspect that it is just a reflection. Your take?

These overexposed images side by side I call "the twins". The
little light beneath each twin *might* be an optical aberration
or it might be a very unusual sort of inferior mirage (if the
atmosphere is layered at that point in the flight). Of course,
the lower lights might also be part of the upper brighter
(larger image) lights. TBD.

>Absolutely fascinating material. Smoking gun? Could be. I'm
>still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

The other shoe is on a Big Foot!








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                        St-Philippe Quebec - 05-03-04

From: Brian Vike HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:47:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:10:10 -0400
Subject: St-Philippe Quebec - 05-03-04


Translated from French


St-Philippe, Quebec

Date:  May 3rd 2004
Time:  Evening

Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 1
Shape of object: Triangle

My husband and I saw a triangle shape in the sky, it was pretty
close to our house. It was very dark in colour and silent. Our
cat's reaction to a slight vibration made us notice. Then our
garage door started to open and shut on its own.

A few hours later we managed to fall asleep. But something
really strange happened all night. I will tell you what happened
to me, then what happened to my husband.

I fell asleep in our bed but my husband found me later on the
sofa in the living room. The patio door was open. I was half
dressed, really weak and disoriented. I felt drained of my
energy.

My husband had a really difficult time getting out of bed. He
was also disoriented.  He found me on the sofa. He doesn't
remember anything except that something prevented him from
getting up.

I have a vague recollection of getting up, being guided by
something, then nothing except I felt like I was in some strange
dream.  3 hours went by between getting out of bed and waking up
on the sofa.

The day after, still tired and taking a shower, I noticed
something on my arm.  When I was a child I had a triangular mark
that had disappeared since then. Now it was back again and it
looked like 3 dark stains and my arm was itching.

My husband felt weak the following days. Like me, he felt like
he was under observation, spied on.

Then the sensation went away. I don't know what happened that
night but nothing felt normal.

I had the same experience when I was 5 and living in Texas. It
happened a second time when I was 15. Now I am 29 and it
happened again. I don't know what it is but it's not of this
world.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                        Ray Bradbury's Mars Testimony

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:12:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:17:43 -0400
Subject: Ray Bradbury's Mars Testimony


http://www.astrobio.net/news/article974.html

Ray Bradbury: The Illustrated Spaceman

Ray Bradbury is the author of classic works of science fiction
such as, The Martian Chronicles, The Illustrated Man, Fahrenheit
451, and Something Wicked This Way Comes. He has published more
than five hundred works, including short stories, novels, plays,
screenplays, television scripts, and verse.

Beyond his literary contributions, Bradbury also serves as an
idea consultant for civic, educational and entertainment
projects. He provided the concept and script for the United
States Pavilion at the 1964 New York World's Fair, and
contributed to Disney's Spaceship Earth at EPCOT and the
Orbitron at the Disneyland parks in Paris and Anaheim.

On April 15, Bradbury again was asked to share his ideas, this
time for the President's Commission on Implementation on U.S.
Space Exploration Policy. In testimony given to a panel chaired
by Edward Pete Aldridge,Jr., Bradbury spoke of his vision for
our destiny in space.

[transcript at site]
--

Rachel Carthy


--
Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress. Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul >






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

                  Re: Ohsweken Ontario 05-19-04 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:38:32 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:41:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Ohsweken Ontario 05-19-04 - Balaskas


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:22:07 -0700
>Subject: Ohsweken Ontario 05-19-04

<snip>

>Ohsweken, Ontario

>[An Island on Georgian Bay, North-West of Penetanguishene]

>Date:  May 19 2004
>Time:  10:40 p.m.

>Number of witnesses: 2
>Number of objects: 3
>Shape of objects: Star-like lights in triangular formation

>Full Description of event/sighting: Went outside May 19, about
>10:30 with telescope to observe Comet Neat. At about 10:40 pm,
>in a small field, I was busy at the telescope when my boyfriend
>said, "Look at that" as he pointed nearly above us.

>At first I believed it was a shooting star, but then I noticed
>that there were 3 star like lights in a tight triangular
>formation. After a couple of seconds they vanished.

>My boyfriend said when he first saw them, he too thought it was
>a shooting star but then realized that there were 3 star-like
>lights traveling in a straight line. He said they suddenly fell
>into the triangular formation, then spun and one of the side
>lights took lead of the triangle. A few seconds later they were
>gone.

>The lights were nearly directly above, traveling from the south
>and headed north. They zipped right past Polaris before fading
>away. They emitted no noise, had no flashing lights, had no
>tails or left no jet streams. The entire event only lasted about
>5 or 6 seconds.


Hi Everyone!

Not wanting to sound like a debunker, but from the description
given for those three star-like objects by the witnesses, my
guess is that this UFO sighting could very well turn out to be
our own secret spacecraft such as NOSS which fly in a formation
of three in polar orbits.

See the excellent article by Anthony Eccles that was posted a
few years ago on UFO UpDates for further details.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/oct/m04-013.shtml

Sightings of three star-like objects moving through the night
sky are so common that they are too often dismissed as these
secret satellites by local amateur astronomers.


Nick Balaskas








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 21

             Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:16:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:48:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Velez


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:19:23 -0700
>Subject: Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer?

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:01:43 -0400
>>Subject: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer?

>>May 21, 2004

>>Dear Friends of Inexplicata:

>>It was with a mixture of amazement and amusement that I read the
>>following two paragraphs, which were forwarded to me by a friend
>>in Australia. It seems that Santiago Yturria, whose information
>>I have always circulated when he has sent it to me, is now
>>accusing me of somehow being "a disinformer" and of having a
>>grudge against him and his principal, Mr. Maussan.

>>For the record, I don't know either of these gentlemen.

>>These are the two paragraphs in question:

>>"The recent discredit campaign against the case and the Mexican
>>Secretary of Defense handled by common debunkers disguised as
>>objective researchers like Scott Corrales and his obscure
>>Institute of Hispanic Ufology whom has a record of continued
>>debunking attacks on every major UFO case released in Mexico and
>>indiscriminate attacks on most of the important Mexican
>>researchers. Corrales debunking campaign is clear publishing
>>every negative article on the news against the case, the
>>researcher Jaime Maussan and the Secretary of Defense General
>>Clemente Vega as part of his hidden agenda helped by his allies
>>like the Fundacion Cosmos group, a minor unknown Mexican amateur
>>group of skeptic debunkers who only recollect news clips from
>>the Mexican newspapers and the Internet.
><snip>

>Scott Corrales, disinformationalist/debunker...LOL!  Sure, sure.

>If Corrales if a disinfo agent, then I'm head of the Sean David
>Morton fan club.  Coralles has done nothing but served as a
>conduit for reporting and sharing cases from Latin America, the
>man is a credit to this field.

Hello Royce, All,

You wrote:

>If Maussan has a credibility problem (i.e.: people not beliving
>him or casting ridicule upon any case he's asociated with), it's
>of his own doing. Maussan has made himself an easy target due
>to his past UFO antics and promotion of frauds. It really is
>too bad, because now that a seemingly legitimate case has landed
>in his lap, his mere association with it is going to cause
>problems.

Until right now, everybody else has refrained from issuing any
personal attacks on Jaime Maussan, opting instead (I think) to
take the 'high road' and simply concentrate on the evidence that
has been offered. Shame on _you_ for being the first to 'lower
the bar'.'

It is gratifying for me to know that you are in a minority who
believes that Jaime's association with the material affects its
value as evidence, or the outcome of the investigation. This
case and any evidence connected with it needs to be judged on
its own merits. As one who works in law enforcement I'm
surprised to hear you say something like this. You ought to know
better.

>I recall saying this very thing in a past posting to this list.

"I told you so!" Is that really what you had to say, Royce?

I hope you feel better now. As for me, I'm going back to looking
into the evidence connected to this report. Royce, please try to
rise above any differences you may have with the man and please
allow the rest of us to concentrate on the case and the
evidence. Personal attacks on Jaime right now? Man, what a waste
and misdirection of energy, later for that.

Do you have anything to contribute in terms of your study of the
evidence in this case? I wouldn't mind hearing that. I have always
admired and respected you Royce, but I think your focus is on the
wrong thing in this instance.

BTW, Jaime has nothing against Scott Corrales. He took the time
to say so in another post I submitted to the List.


Most sincerely,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

                    Second Rock From The Sun Discovered!

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:33:17 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 05:38:10 -0400
Subject: Second Rock From The Sun Discovered!


Hi Everyone!

Source: Today on SPACE.com

http://www.space.com/

05-21-04

<snip>

* New Object is 2nd Rock from the Sun

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/asteroid_closest_040520.html

Astronomers announced Thursday the second known asteroid whose
orbit is completely inside that of Earth. It supplants Venus as
the second rock from the Sun.

<snip>

Not only is the average distance from the Sun for this "minor
planet" less than Earth's and Venus' but at times its eliptical
orbit takes it closer to the Sun than Mercury, the "First Rock
From The Sun". If there are indeed an estimated 50 such
asteroids of about 1 kilometers in size just waiting to be
discovered well inside the orbit of Earth, they could one day be
used as future manned space stations, assuming that a few of
them are not already occupied or of artificial origin! These
asteroids thought to exist in the inner solar system may explain
some of the large UFO images detected around the Sun by the
Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) in the past.

And in case readers overlooked it, another planet, or planetoid,
beyond Neptune was discovered around the same time as Sedna, a
world many times further away from the Sun than Pluto. This
"10th planet" (2004 DW) is possibly even larger than Sedna and
could very well turn out to be larger than Pluto itself! See
'Sky & Telescope', June 2004, page 16 for further details.

It makes me wonder just how many more such worlds are out there
waiting to be discovered within our solar system - literally our
backyard of space which dispite our arrogance, is still very
mysterious and full of surprises!


Nick Balaskas








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

                        Victoria BC & Ottawa ON 05-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:03:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 05:43:01 -0400
Subject: Victoria BC & Ottawa ON 05-04


Victoria, B.C. - Shooting Lights

Date: May 18, 2004
Time: 10:35 p.m.

Number of witnesses: 1
Number of objects: 3
Shape of objects: Bright round objects.

Full Description of event/sighting: The witness to this sighting
sent an email to me informing me of what he saw and asked if I
would be able to call him as it was a little hard to explain
what was observed. I did call him the next evening and took the
report which is below.

The man told me that he is the type of fellow who watches the
night sky as he has a really interest in astronomyand mentioned
that he also had found me through the Jeff Rense website.

The fellow went outside to have a cigarette when he first saw
the light/object. At first the man thought it was a satellite.
The object was as bright as the planet Venus and heading in a
northerly direction traveling from the south on a straight line.
As the object moved across the sky another two lights/objects
shot out of it, one light heading to the east and the other
towards the west. Both of the lights that shot off together went
at the exact same time. Also they were not as bright and allot
smaller than the main light. The main light never lost it's
brightness as it moved across the sky. The witness believes the
object he was observing was at a very high altitude. The object
was visible to the fellow for approx: 30 to 40 seconds before it
finally disappeared. All of the object were white in color and
no tail or trail was seen following behind each of them.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

-----------

Ottawa, Ontario

Date: May 19, 2004
Time: 21h50 to 23h40

Witnesses: 2
Shape: Triangle/ V shape.
Sky: Pretty clear.

I saw lots of things since my childhood but yesterday was quite
remarkable. I went to get my son in the South East of Ottawa and
saw a big light, low above the city, lower than a jet a bit
higher than a Cessna. I thought it was a star but when I parked
my car, I then realized it was too low and moving in a up and
down motion going toward NW. I watched it from my car trough
small trees with my binocular, I did not get out of the car
being in a parking lot, I did not want to get too much
attention... After ten to 15 minutes my son arrived. I showed
him the light and told him we would follow it.  I was drawn by
this thing.

Needless to say that my son was too. I drove North, trying not
to loose it. We got on Industrial blvd direction West , We could
see it going lower and further away. We decided that the best
lookout was the Rockcliffe (Higher point to look over Hull and
Gatineau) one since this thing was going to cross the river.
Trying to get there fast, we ended up wasting time trying to
find a shortcut to get to the lookout. From the lookout, using
binocular 35X 7-21, we watched it for at least ten minutes. It
must have been around 10:30 at the time.

The "Light" was over the city of Gatineau still moving in a NW
direction. It was not perfectly round, it looked like a
pinkish/orange crescent from where we were. We stayed there for
about another ten minutes and we decided to pursue it . We got
onto the Mc Donald Cartier bridge and followed the 50 direction
Montr=E9al. We could not see it for a few minutes and then we
realized it was gone. After a few minutes of driving on the 50,
we saw (Not sure if this is the same light or if these were two
different thing?!) a pale orange light low over Ottawa in a
South East direction, kind of where we were standing before
crossing the river!!!  I decided to take blvd de l'a=E9roport exit
and drove south toward Maloney blvd. The light was getting
bigger, coming toward us from Ottawa over the river. My son
started to freak out, I did not since we were now heading toward
the core of Gatineau.

I turned on Maloney direction West and I could see it coming
from the West now, heading toward us. I drove for a minute then
got in a parking lot( Small Shopping Centre). The traffic on the
road for that time was usual. I jumped out of the car and saw
the big light turning bright white, as it got closer. There was
a bigger light in the middle of two small lights, one on each
side. No green or red lights like regular planes and no flashing
light either. To add to the mystery, no noise at all. I don't
know if it was the city noises burying it's sound but if a
regular plane would have been there at the same place, we would
have heard something !? We live close to the Ottawa Airport so
we are very familiar with usual civil planes... It crossed the
blvd going in a South East direction and as it turned it's side
to cross over the street, my son kept yelling this is not a
plane!

He was spooked! I was totally fascinated, I had my hair standing
up all over my body and I taught it was wonderful, it (I know
this will sound weird) seemed to change shape as it was crossing
over the blvd, I could not see the shape very definitely but it
was kind of weird, a red light appeared and we could see a small
white light trailing this massive black shape unfolding in front
of our eyes. I vaguely saw that it was very huge and still can't
tell the exact shape of the side. It was so close that it seemed
unreal to see this. It was, I think within one Km from us flying
toward the ground, like in approach for landing. The only
airport close by in this direction was the Museum of aviation on
the other side of the river. I can't tell if it was really over
it or not but it seemed really close. Then as it was now going
toward the ground, it turned straight for us in a slow wide turn
revealing it's top and then it's front. At that moment, I yelled
too! This was no civil plane, no doubt, we saw a V shape. My
legs began to soften as my brain was analyzing and concluding we
might not be safe there... The V was flat and wide, and I could
see on each branch a row of white lights.

I can't really say how many, I think it was five or six on each
side, they looked like fluorescent tubes side by side, except
that these were separated so it looked like tiny rectangles
aligned side by side in a black frame. I don't remember seeing
the thickness of the shape, at that moment, I taught this might
be what people call a "Black Triangle" Then it slowly continued
it's turn toward west and we lost it because it was too low. I
decided to get out of there. For a second, I did not believed,
it was unreal and at the same time too real and way too close!
As I drove West on Maloney, I think I saw it kind of hovering
close to the ground near a wooded area in the back of a big
Industry, aligned with Kettle Island and with the Museum of
Aviation on the other side of the river. At that point, it was
very overwhelming for both of us. I should have called the
police, I know, but I was afraid to do so. We drove home in
Ottawa South and did not see anything after that but planes. I
wish I had a camera, this would have been a heck of a footage!

Thank you to the witness for the report.

HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

              Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:19:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 06:15:12 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Speiser


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:44:22 -0400
>Subject: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>SOURCE: La Cronica de Hoy
>DATE: 05/17/2004

>SEDENA AND THE UFO QUESTION
>by Raul Trejo Delarbre


Sorry, fellow Listers, but I smell a rat, and this article has
reinforced the odor.

We have all heard of the 'false flag' ruse, a disinformation
tactic where a particular sighting, or a particular witness, is
hyped, only to have the rug pulled out. It may very well be that
the Mexican government wants Maussan 'out of the way', and what
better way to do it than by discrediting him with an easily-
pulled 'rug'. And as he is the most visible and vocal UFO
proponent in Mexico, no doubt the ruse would take in thousands
of saucer-eyed fans as well, many of whom would be wary of his
next escapade.

Sometimes, when something is just to good to be true... well, I
would counsel extreme caution in any "pronouncements" from here
on.....

On the other hand, Maussan could take the opportunity to greatly
increase his credibility by turning the tables on the rug-
pullers, and declaring the case to be a hoax (_if_ it is one) or
otherwise explainable, beating the disinformers to the punch.
Somehow I doubt that will happen, though.....


==JJS==







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

                      Niagara Falls Ontario UFO Photo?

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:28:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 06:24:28 -0400
Subject: Niagara Falls Ontario UFO Photo?


Niagara Falls, Ontario UFO Photo?

Photo can be view at:

http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1296

Time was 18:54:06 (minus 5 hours GMT) 10 May 2004

The photo was taken over Niagara Falls, Ontario Canada. The
fellow who took the photo did not see anything at the time the
shot was taken. Later he noticed something when browsing through
all the pictures he had taken.

Thanks to the person who took the photos.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO
Research Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

               Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 20 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:49:57 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 06:28:35 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 20 - Balaskas


>From: John Hayes <John.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:08:25 +0100
>Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 20

<snip>

>NIGHT SAUCER SPOTTED
>IN RZESZOW, POLAND

>      "A UFO was sighted above Rzeszow, the main city of
>Podkarpacie province" in Poland "on the night of (Tuesday)
>May 4, 2004."
>      "It was very similar to the classic UFO with a dome
>on its saucer-like structure.  The UFO was photographed by
>a college student in Rzeszow.  This event is being
>investigated and studied by the Center for UFO and
>Anomalous Phenomena Research (Polish acronym: CBUFOIZA--
>J.T.)."
>      "Similar objects were seen and photographed over
>Rzeszow with VHS videocameras in 1998 and again in 2000."
>      "It is worth noting that this is the second UFO photo
>made above Podkarpacie province during the past two years.
>The first one was made over the village of Brzostek on
>July 26, 2003.  CBUFOIZA has all ten photographs of that
>UFO."
>(Many thanks to Polish ufologists Arkadiusz Miazga and
>Robert K. Lesniakiewicz for this news story.)

Hi Everyone!

There is little doubt that this UFO (or BLURFO) is a lense flare!

The fact that there is a very bright street light opposite to
and an equal distance from the optical center of the photo to
the UFO-like image, is very compelling evidence that supports
this conclusion. Also, the fact the vertical axis of the saucer
image points directly towards this light source or "hot spot"
through the optical center is a further indication that this
"UFO" is just an optical effect and not some real unknown object
in the sky! See the images of this "UFO" in the pictures sent to
Jeff Rense, which exhibited minimal cropping.

http://www.rense.com/general52/glow.htm

Compare these photos with the image of the same "UFO" in the
photo found in the Polish web site.

http://www.ufo.internauci.pl/?module=news&id=434

Since further details are not provided (not unusual with all
such dubious photos), the fact that the uncropped photo was
centered on the buildings in the background (its subject), I
think we can safely say that this "UFO" was not even noticed
until after the photographer saw the results.

What I do find disturbing in the photo found in the Polish web
site is that it was cropped so much that the "hot spot" is
absent in their version. Was this cropping done to mislead
people and make the lense flare explanation a very improbable
one?

Honesty, including honest mistakes and mis-interpretations, is
acceptable in ufology but not mischieveous representations of
UFO sightings. These should promptly be exposed for what they
are - attacks intended to discredit the entire subject of UFOs!


Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

               Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Booth

From: Billy Booth <Ufocasebook.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:42:41 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 06:40:33 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Booth


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:44:22 -0400
>Subject: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

Some info you might find interesting:

I rec'd this email today from my friend, Kim Shaffer, State
Director of MUFON, Tennessee East.

-----

Hey B J,

Mexican UFO's caught on FLIR
(possible answer to the de-bunkers)

For those who do not understand what FLIR or forward looking
infrared is and a possible way of answering all the debunkers is
just this.

From my Army days, we used infrared as a way of seeing in the
darkness. For those who do not understand what "IR" is, well
it's easy. Everything that is not frozen at absolute zero has an
"IR" signature. The more heat emitted from anything, the
brighter the "IR" signature or picture. For example, the clouds
in the Mexican Air Force video, using a bad guess as a
reference, say are at 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Watch the video and
see the dim but viewable clouds? Note the brightness of the
clouds. This is the "IR" or thermal signature for that
hypothetical temperature.

Now, the objects in the video appear as brilliant, almost like
light emissions from an electrical light source. This "IR"
signature is possible in the hundreds but not tens of thousands
of degrees that "ball lightning" would be. For those of us who
have seen a lightning strike thru "IR" find the suggestion of
"ball lightning" a laughable and ridiculous debunking attempt.

Weather balloon theory? Helium in a suspended radiosonde device
(balloon) will be near the same temperature as the outside air.
The "IR" signature would be nearly, if not completely invisible,
looking like the background sky. (It is not "heat" in a helium
filled balloon that makes it float)

Also, the debunkers have said that the objects were "gas".
Common sense tells us that there is no such thing as hot "gas"
moving at high speed in the atmosphere. Again, a ridiculous
attempt to debunk.

Why is this relevant? Easy, the FLIR camera is a calibrated
instrument. It was set up by its manufacturer to register
thermal radiation sources at certain, probably "assigned"
temperatures. The video can be analyzed by the maker of this
FLIR device and a true temperature of the objects in the clip
can be determined. Why has no one suggested this? Knowing as
little as I do about Infrared, I feel this is a possible answer
to the de-bunkers. Have the video analyzed by the FLIR
technicians that calibrated the device. We will then have an
approximate thermal reading on the objects. Then, armed with
this data, the debunkers will crawl under their rocks.

Hope this helps us find a few realistic answers.

Best Regards,
Kim Shaffer
State Director, MUFON Tn. (East)

-----








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

                  Mexican Lights Related To Phoenix Lights?

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:20:34 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 06:52:37 -0400
Subject: Mexican Lights Related To Phoenix Lights?


Source: Fox News 11 - Tucson, Arizona

http://www.fox11az.com/news/state/stories/KMSB-20040519-fambp-phoenixlights.1db1
8284a.html

05-19-04


Mexican Lights Related To Phoenix lights?

<snip>

"Dilettoso said his analysis of that sighting and of the latest
one out of Mexico have striking similarities."

<snip>


Now I am not a great fan of analysis by Dilettoso, however he
has some pretty neat software for image analysis. It will be
interesting to see what he comes up with re the Mexican UFO
footage. His statement above is an interesting comparison.

We all know that the Phoenix Lights (10pm event) were flares
dropped from aircraft, it is just the distance from the range
that still has a question over it.

What if Dilettoso finds the same signature between the two
events?

Would that then mean that the Mexican UFO's in the Infrared
footage were 'flames'?


Regards,

Barry Taylor








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Taylor

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:41:48 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 06:55:34 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Taylor


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:11:51 -0400
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:22:38 +1000
>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

<snip>

>>I was just curious to see what type of UFO was filmed in the
>>Mexican footage by the Infrared camera so run a series of
>>grabbed stills from the footage through a false colour
>>enhancement procedure. To my surprise, they resulted in images
>>identical to the hoax device stills I have worked on over the
>>last several years.

>>I find the statements in the interview above particularly
>>significant. These statements could well confirm what I have
>>found in the images.

>>If your have an interest in this case, than I strongly suggest
>>you have a study of the images on my UFO web page at...

>>http://theozfactor.cjb.net/mexicoufo.htm

>>If you are into image enhancement, I suggest you do the same.
>>The evidence may just reveal itself by comparison with known
>>object analysis.

>Hello Barry,

>Quickly... I don't want to waste too much time on this.

>The objects in the Mexican video are travelling _faster_ than
>the Mexican military airplane that recorded them. (Using the
>FLIR system.) The Mexican airplane was travelling at 200 + MPH
>during the mission which means that the UFOs had to be moving
>faster than that in order to overtake and then pass by the
>airplane in the sky. (At one point _surrounding_ the airplane.)

>Barry, your suggestion is intended as a joke, right?

I may have missed it if posted, but has anyone established the
air current speed at the 12,000 ft altitude at the time of the
sighting? I know that air speeds can exceed 200m/h at altitude.
This is an important point to establish.

>I'll tell you what, the day you can get one of your balloon
>"Hoax devices" to fly laterally at approximately 12,000 ft.
>altitude while moving fast enough to overtake, surround and then
>pass an airplane that is travelling at 200 + mph, I will give
>your not thought out too well explanation consideration. I
>promise.

Time will tell. Maybe. You have to do more than just look at the
evidence, you have to test it to get somewhere near the right
answers.


Barry Taylor








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

             Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:57:25 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 06:59:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:42:49 -0400
>Subject: Re: Corrected Translation Of March '04 Mexico UFOs - Part II

<snip>

>The _only_way_ that they were able to "see" anything, was via
>the radar and the FLIR. I have the FLIR footage. There's a lot
>of it too. At the end there is a section of recording that shows
>a pretty large object. This 'may be' the giant UFO in question.
>I don't know. We'll all just have to hold our horses and give
>Bruce Maccabee all help, information and the breathing space he
>needs to complete and publish his analysis. I'm certain that he
>will tell us what he can about the speed, size and distance of
>these objects.

>If it is determined that an image of an object of those
>proportions is evidenced on the FLIR recording, _then_ we will
>have something serious to deal with and consider.

>>This may be a very important aspect of the case, and it seems to
>>me that is should be discussed here.

>My theory is, most people are experiencing one stage or another
>of genuine shock.

>Debunkers especially have been struck dumb. In their full-out
>'rush to judgement' they carelessly make mistakes in method and
>judgement as they stumble and drool all over themselves. They
>need a serious wake-up call. That is why research people like
>Maccabee and a handful of others are such a valuable and rare
>commodity.

>Thank the Major we've got em! We would be one sorry lot without
>them! ;)

Comment:

The only 'rush to judgement' I have seen so far in this case,
are the claims that the objects were not noticed therefore
invisible to the naked eye, and that they must be Alien
spacecraft (real UFOs)


Barry Taylor









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

             Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:31:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 07:11:57 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:34:17 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:32 -0400
>>Subject: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>It must be noted that the Seismography Unit registered
>>movement at the time of the unusual accident, a detail
>>reminiscent of the Roswell, New Mexico (USA) event of 1947.

>Not only the Roswell incident - check the "earthquake" at time of
>Berwyns event.

>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/berwyns.txt for references.

>When an inertia-less drive (capable of lifting large mass out
>of a gravity field) is accidentally or purposely driven into
>Earth's surface - what d'you expect?

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jan/m19-012.shtml
>for earlier reference.

>That's three 'crashes' - three earthquakes.

>I don't think _we_ have an inertia-less drive. Do you?


Hello Ray, all:

I don't want to open up another discussion of the Roswell matter
by any means. But, if there is any seismic record of the Roswell
event, wouldn't that nail down the date and time of the supposed
crash?

Who was using a seismometer there in 1947?


Best wishes

- Larry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

             Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 04:09:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 08:27:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer? - Myers


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:16:59 -0400
>Subject: Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer?

>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:19:23 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer?

>>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:01:43 -0400
>>>Subject: Scott Corrales The Obscure Disinformer?

>>>May 21, 2004

>>>Dear Friends of Inexplicata:

>>>It was with a mixture of amazement and amusement that I read the
>>>following two paragraphs, which were forwarded to me by a friend
>>>in Australia. It seems that Santiago Yturria, whose information
>>>I have always circulated when he has sent it to me, is now
>>>accusing me of somehow being "a disinformer" and of having a
>>>grudge against him and his principal, Mr. Maussan.

>>>For the record, I don't know either of these gentlemen.

>>>These are the two paragraphs in question:

>>>"The recent discredit campaign against the case and the Mexican
>>>Secretary of Defense handled by common debunkers disguised as
>>>objective researchers like Scott Corrales and his obscure
>>>Institute of Hispanic Ufology whom has a record of continued
>>>debunking attacks on every major UFO case released in Mexico and
>>>indiscriminate attacks on most of the important Mexican
>>>researchers. Corrales debunking campaign is clear publishing
>>>every negative article on the news against the case, the
>>>researcher Jaime Maussan and the Secretary of Defense General
>>>Clemente Vega as part of his hidden agenda helped by his allies
>>>like the Fundacion Cosmos group, a minor unknown Mexican amateur
>>>group of skeptic debunkers who only recollect news clips from
>>>the Mexican newspapers and the Internet.
>><snip>

>>Scott Corrales, disinformationalist/debunker...LOL! Sure, sure.

>>If Corrales if a disinfo agent, then I'm head of the Sean David
>>Morton fan club. Coralles has done nothing but served as a
>>conduit for reporting and sharing cases from Latin America, the
>>man is a credit to this field.

>>If Maussan has a credibility problem (i.e.: people not beliving
>>him or casting ridicule upon any case he's asociated with), it's
>>of his own doing. Maussan has made himself an easy target due
>>to his past UFO antics and promotion of frauds. It really is
>>too bad, because now that a seemingly legitimate case has landed
>>in his lap, his mere association with it is going to cause
>>problems.
>
>Until right now, everybody else has refrained from issuing any
>personal attacks on Jaime Maussan, opting instead (I think) to
>take the 'high road' and simply concentrate on the evidence that
>has been offered. Shame on _you_ for being the first to 'lower
>the bar'.'

John,

I'm not making a personal attack on anyone here, as you would
like to insinuate. I'm simply pointing out a fact, whether you
want to acknowledge it or not. Indeed, 'shame on me' for
pointing out the obvious... please. If you don't like the fact
Muassan has a track record of being the boy who cried wolf,
that's just too bad. Trying to lambast me as being a
negativist making personal attacks isn't going to change it.

I've also pointed out in a previous post that people were
unfairly referring to Maussan as a "UFO follower", "UFO
enthusiast", and "UFO believer" in order to cast doubt on the
case. So as for any attacks happening, they've already happened
and it isn't me making them. Hello?

This doesn't mean I don't think the case is credible, so far it
looks excellent. However, the reality of Muassan and his UFO
track record will likely be a focus for those wanting to sink
this case. If you think differently, then you're a bit out of
touch here.

>It is gratifying for me to know that you are in a minority who
>believes that Jaime's association with the material affects its
>value as evidence, or the outcome of the investigation. This
>case and any evidence connected with it needs to be judged on
>its own merits. As one who works in law enforcement I'm
>surprised to hear you say something like this. You ought to know
>better.

John, don't wave a finger at me saying I 'ought to know better'
simply because you assume something about me. Having the
evidence judged on its own merit would be just wonderful,
wouldn't it? What a brilliant idea.

It'd work every time, too... in a perfect world. I think you're
not being very realistic and you 'ought to know better' in this
instance. You know when a good case causes a furor that the
professional skeptics and debunkers will use whatever they can
to discredit the case. This includes, as you ought to know,
focusing on the source of the information and attempting to
discredit that source or case advocate along with the evidence.

As for law, rules of evidence, and witnesses - anyone knows the
credibility of a witness can have an adverse impact on a case,
whether they're telling the truth or not. Evidence can be
dismantled into dust no matter how good it is. The credibility
of a witness or source is of paramount importance in any case.

Remember OJ Simpson being aquitted, or how about the police
officers in the Rodney King case being aquitted (but later
convicted on Federal charges) of beating him. I don't think
there was any doubt the people in both cases were 110% guilty.
The evidence clearly demonstrated it, but did that keep them
from being convicted? No, their lawyers did by shredding
witnesses and evidence.

However, this is Ufology, not an episode of Perry Mason. Were
this an episode of Perry Mason, over half of the UFO field would
be in jail for fraud, skeptics would be brought up on charges of
perjury, the court would have handed down a ruling that UFOs
exist, and we'd all be in Mason's office having coffee and a
short talk about the day's events in court and smiling about our
victory. This is not a simple issue of black and white like
you're trying to make it out to be, and I have to say I'm quite
surprised at your flawed, dreamy logic here.

While everyone with some sense will see the black and white of
it, the media has already put its spin on this case. I've seen
them calling the pilots 'nervous' and making comedy references
to them saying 'we're not alone' and essentially laughing the
whole thing off as nothing more than an oddity and calling it a
"UFO scare".

Maussan has been referred to as everything but a journalist or
investigator and has been painted as a UFO cult type. The mass
media is giving publicity to the outlandish explanations that
the UFOs encountered were gas, ball lightning, balloons, and a
myriad of other excuses, more than the actual evidence at hand.

>>I recall saying this very thing in a past posting to this list.

>"I told you so!" Is that really what you had to say, Royce?

No, John, once again, no. But it seems that's what you'd like to
think since I've brought up a negative issue about Maussan, who
you clearly have a fondness for, and you obviously want to make
me out to be some sort of bad guy here. John, I frankly could
care less what you think about me. Really. If anyone is taking
this peronsally, it's you.

Odd, you had no problem praising me when I exposed the Reed UFO
Fraud, of which your pal Maussan, who orchestrated a huge pro-PR
campaign for the Reed UFO Fraud, was making all sorts of claims
of having scientific evidence and other proof that _never_
surfaced. Maussan's associate (also apparently involved with the
current Mexico case) R. Garrido made claims of having
scientifically examined the 'link artifact' and exclaiming it
incorporated advanced nano-technology, but provided no
evidence...my, what a surprise.

But that's another issue.....

>I hope you feel better now. As for me, I'm going back to looking
>into the evidence connected to this report. Royce, please try to
>rise above any differences you may have with the man and please
>allow the rest of us to concentrate on the case and the
>evidence. Personal attacks on Jaime right now? Man, what a waste
>and misdirection of energy, later for that.

John, I feel just fine, thanks. But do give it a rest and stop
making such arrogant assumptions about me. It's not my problem
Maussan has credibility issues. This is nothing personal. I'm
sure Maussan is a fun guy to be around. In fact, I found him to
be a very friendly guy when I spent some time with him in Los
Angeles some years ago. Very entertaining guy.

Personally, I don't have anything against Maussan and he's the
kind of guy I could sit down and have lunch with. If this were
personal, maybe I'd make a crack about his grandmother wearing
combat boots or something just as silly.

My problem with Maussan lies in his sensationalist, no-delievery
claims of haivng evidence of this and that. My problem is not
with the case at hand.

I'm just pointing out the obvious, which had already come into
play in the media.

>Do you have anything to contribute in terms of your study of the
>evidence in this case? I wouldn't mind hearing that. I have always
>admired and respected you Royce, but I think your focus is on the
>wrong thing in this instance.

This isn't my 'focus', something I just mentioned. I fully
support the current case based on what I've seen and heard so
far. Unfortunately, no I don't have anything 'to contribute',
since my Spanish is horrible and this sort of video analysis is
out of my field of expertise. Again John, stop trying to make me
out to the guy raining on this UFO parade - you know this isn't
the case...or should I say 'you ought to know better'? Your pal
Maussan has made his own bed in this field, don't try to blame
me for his lack of credibility.

>BTW, Jaime has nothing against Scott Corrales. He took the time
>to say so in another post I submitted to the List.

I never said Maussan had anything against Corrales. I was
talking about Santiago Yturria not going directly to Corrales.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 04:22:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 08:29:06 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Hatch


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:41:48 +1000
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

<snip>

>I may have missed it if posted, but has anyone established the
>air current speed at the 12,000 ft altitude at the time of the
>sighting? I know that air speeds can exceed 200m/h at altitude.
>This is an important point to establish.

>>I'll tell you what, the day you can get one of your balloon
>>"Hoax devices" to fly laterally at approximately 12,000 ft.
>>altitude while moving fast enough to overtake, surround and then
>>pass an airplane that is travelling at 200 + mph, I will give
>>your not thought out too well explanation consideration. I
>>promise.

>Time will tell. Maybe. You have to do more than just look at
>the evidence, you have to test it to get somewhere near the
>right answers.


Hello Barry:

If I understand correctly, the MX-AF plane had an _air_ speed of
200 km/hour. That's an important point. Winds can probably
exceed 200 km/hr relative to the ground, and a balloon say, at
that altitude, would go just as fast.

IF the plane were going with the wind like a balloon does, it
would have a ground speed of 200 km/hr, but an air-speed of
zero. It would drop like a rock.

If indeed the object matched the speed of the plane, that
implies powered flight. I use the word 'implies' in the
mathematical sense, meaning it necessitates powered flight.

We would all like more light and less heat (except for the FLIR
IR images of course). I have no bulls in this dogfight, but just
want to see it resolved.

Even if the causes turn out to be mundane, its still historic
and precedent setting for the disclosure by the MX military.

Each and every explanation, mundane and otherwise, must be
considered on its merits.  So far, the easy pot-shots look
pretty weak to me ( meteors, balloons, politics..) This does not
rule out better explanations later.

I leave it to the experts to unravel this one. Failing that, we
could all take a vote right after church.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

                    Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Rue

From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:31:38 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 08:49:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Rue


>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:29:37 +0200
>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:10:58 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:51:01 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>>Intense IR waves "burned out" the wrist watch of a UFO
>>>witness on June 19, 1969, between King's Lynn and Docking,
>>>England. During the UFO sighting, the fluorescence cyphers
>>>of the witness' watch lit up. After the sighting the cyphers
>>>would never light up again. The car's motor hat stalled.
>>>When the witness left the car, he felt as being in a strong
>>>electrostatic field. His hair stood up. 30 to 50 meters above
>>>him hovered an orange glowing "inversed mushroom", as large
>>>as a house. (G.I.R. Lore 1969: Strange Efects of UFOs,
>>>Washington: NICAP.)

>>A problem evoked by that report is, however: Assuming
>>the case is a valid one, we cannot be sure whether it was
>>actually infrared (IR), per se, that caused the numbers on
>>the watch to light up and never be able to glow again.
>>After all, we are told that the car's motor stalled (I
>>suspect that would be caused by other wavelengths and not
>>by IR) and that an electrostatic effect seemed to be sensed,
>>with, reportedly, hair standing up (if the latter 'effect'
>>was literal and not just an emotion-induced feeling).

>>One might conjecture that any IR effect strong enough to
>>ruin the watch's numbers would have had some very strong
>>effect on local organisms, including some terribly strong
>>heating effects upon the witness. Were such reported?

>>In short, if the thing about the watch is correct, one
>>might consider the possibility that some wavelength(s)
>>other than IR could have been involved, especially if
>>the observer did not report a very strong heat.

>>If anyone of you can provide me with a more complete
>>report of that case or offer to sell me a copy of NICAP's
>>Strange Effects of UFOs, NICAP, Washington, D.C., 1969,
>>containing it, I would be very appreciative.

>I cited from the German literature (a CD-ROM edited by
>Illobrand von Ludwiger, section online at:

>http://www.mufon-ces.org/docs/ufoem.pdf

>I don't have the NICAP report myself but will try to get it
>for us. Others, however, should also try...

Indeed Ludwiger told me X-rays could also account for such
an effect. We couldn't find the NICAP source. When going
through the literature, the other case turned out to be
directly relevant:

>>>During a UFO sighting on August 19, 1961, in La Boule, France,
>>>the local weather station detected a heat increase resembling
>>>1.38 mV.

>>>During the great heat wave in summer, readings showed an
>>>increase of only 0.4 mV. (H. Ragaz 1961: Weltrundschau, in:
>>>Der Weltraumbote, Nr. 68/69, p.15.)

The heat increase was actually measured by an IR sensor. I am
translating a case summary:

"On August 9th, 1961, multiple guests of the casino of La Boule,
France, recognized a luminous object of about 40 meters size in
a few hundred meters height. Even in relatively great distance
from the object the witnesses sensed a "hot air breeze"
emanating from the object. At the same time the infrared
detector of the weather station of La Boule measured a
considerable heat increase, corresponding to a 1.38 Millivolt
 amplitude. During the great heat wave of July no more than 0.4
Millivolt amplitudes had been recorded." (I.v. Ludwiger 1992:
Der Stand der UFO-Forschung, Zweitausendeins, 4th edition,
p.144.)

Infrared sensors are of course routinely used in Hessdalen:

http://www.hessdalen.org/reports/Spectrographic_records.shtml


Best regards

Hannes
MUFON-CES









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

               Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:19:25 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:00:41 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Hall


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:19:51 -0700
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:44:22 -0400
>>Subject: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>SOURCE: La Cronica de Hoy
>>DATE: 05/17/2004

>>SEDENA AND THE UFO QUESTION
>>by Raul Trejo Delarbre

>Sorry, fellow Listers, but I smell a rat, and this article has
>reinforced the odor.

>We have all heard of the 'false flag' ruse, a disinformation
>tactic where a particular sighting, or a particular witness, is
>hyped, only to have the rug pulled out. It may very well be that
>the Mexican government wants Maussan 'out of the way', and what
>better way to do it than by discrediting him with an easily-
>pulled 'rug'. And as he is the most visible and vocal UFO
>proponent in Mexico, no doubt the ruse would take in thousands
>of saucer-eyed fans as well, many of whom would be wary of his
>next escapade.

>Sometimes, when something is just to good to be true... well, I
>would counsel extreme caution in any "pronouncements" from here
>on.....

>On the other hand, Maussan could take the opportunity to greatly
>increase his credibility by turning the tables on the rug-
>pullers, and declaring the case to be a hoax (_if_ it is one) or
>otherwise explainable, beating the disinformers to the punch.
>Somehow I doubt that will happen, though.....


Jim and List,

In the "good old days" Major Keyhoe and I always assumed that an
incoming report, no matter how impressive seeming, could be
either an explainable phenomenon or planted to discredit us,
until proven otherwise. I have counselled caution in
interpretation and accreptance of this case from the outset, and
cessation of wild speculation.

Science first. Analyze everything about the case carefully and
thoroughly, as Bruce Maccabee is doing. Determine whether there
is a concordance between the radar and the infrared images.
Gather ground radar data if it is there. Establish a careful
timeline of vrbral testimony versus instrumentally recorded
events. As someone suggested, try to obtain satellite data (if
any).

I doubt seriously that the Mexican government would engage in a
hoax, however. The case seems to be very straightforward. But
meanwhile, ufologists insist on getting egg on their faces by
automatically assuming the images are ET, "mother ships", etc.,
without first carefully ruling out conventional explanations.

So far, any possible conventional explanations seem unlikely in
this case unless someone is deliberatly lying. The ball
lightning, celestial swamp gas, and balloon hypotheses are
hilarious!

If there is a conventional explanation, it is far more likely to
be something in the nature of an instrumental artifact or some
highly unusual extreme weather phenomenon (which the data also
seems to rule out). This is an ideal case for ufology to
actually be scientific with for a change. All too often ufology
is as clownish as the ludicrous debunking explanations, or even
more so. Two extremes of idiiocy.


 - Dick








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

                            PRG Update - 05-22-04

From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:29:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:11:21 -0400
Subject: PRG Update - 05-22-04


PRG
Paradigm Research Group
PRG Update - 4/17/04 - Addendum


American Candidate

Despite receiving the third largest number of support votes
(35,000), Stephen Bassett was not one of the 24 finalists
brought to Los Angeles to interview for the Showtime reality
series, American Candidate. The message is clear: real
candidates for the presidency (or House and Senate for that
matter) cannot talk to the American people about the
extraterrestrial presence, and "reality" candidates cannot talk
to the American people about exopolitics - EMBARGO ON.

www.americancandidate.com


X-Conference

The Hilton Gaithersburg has reserved the entire hotel conference
facilities and 280 rooms for the X-Conference for the extended
weekend of April 21-24, 2005. The Holiday Inn Gaithersburg is
reserving additional rooms. However, public development of the
conference will not begin until all 2004 accounts have been
settled.

In that vein: PRG purchased 4 Epson Powerlite S1+ data
projectors for the conference on April 15, 2004. With tax, each
cost $1060. They were used for that weekend only and put back in
the box. They worked beautifully. PRG is selling all 4
projectors for $860/each including shipping to anywhere in the
U.S. Here are the specs:

Epson Powerlite S1+
1400 ANSI lumens
SVGA (800x600) resolution
Digital zoom lens and keystone correction
Window/Macintosh compatible
Plug and play infrared remote control
Carrying Case
Computer cable with mini D-sub 15 pin
Power cord
Wt. 7 lbs

Video signals
- Analog RGB
- Composite video
- S-Video
- Component Y, Cb, Cr video
- NTSC/PAL/SECAM
- HDTV

It's a PowerPoint world. Contact PRG if you would like to save
$200 on a like-new data projector.


Upcoming Conferences

Ancient of Days UFOs/Abduction Conference
July 2-5 - Roswell, NM
www.roswellufofestival.com/

MUFON International Symposium - July 16-18 - Denver
www.mufon.com/

6th Annual Bay Area UFO Expo - August 28-29, 2004
www.thebayareaufoexpo.com/

The ARC ~ Alternate Realities Conference
September 24-25, 2004
www.stargate-chronicles.com/thearcspeakers.html

Paraworld Expo - October 21-24 - Los Angeles
www.paraworldexpo.com/

2nd Annual Majestic Documents/UFO Crash Retrieval
Conference November 12-14, 2004
www.majesticdocuments.com/events.html



________________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_________________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg
www.x-conference.com
Tapes/DVDs available at: www.lostartsmedia.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:02:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:47:43 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Ledger


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:41:48 +1000
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

<snip>

>I may have missed it if posted, but has anyone established the
>air current speed at the 12,000 ft altitude at the time of the
>sighting? I know that air speeds can exceed 200m/h at altitude.
>This is an important point to establish.

>>I'll tell you what, the day you can get one of your balloon
>>"Hoax devices" to fly laterally at approximately 12,000 ft.
>>altitude while moving fast enough to overtake, surround and then
>>pass an airplane that is travelling at 200 + mph, I will give
>>your not thought out too well explanation consideration. I
>>promise.

>Time will tell. Maybe. You have to do more than just look at the
>evidence, you have to test it to get somewhere near the right
>answers.


You are forgetting one thing Barry. If the objects were being
boosted along by 200mph winds at 12,000 feet [very unlikely as
the jet stream is up in the  approx.28,0000-32,000 foot level]
then the aircraft would be boosted along as well, meaning both
the aircraft and the objects would both be in the same moving
body of air. In any event, balloons are out of the question.


Don Ledger






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

               Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:06:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:51:16 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Velez


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:19:51 -0700
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:44:22 -0400
>>Subject: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>SOURCE: La Cronica de Hoy
>>DATE: 05/17/2004

>>SEDENA AND THE UFO QUESTION
>>by Raul Trejo Delarbre

>Sorry, fellow Listers, but I smell a rat, and this article has
>reinforced the odor.
>
>We have all heard of the 'false flag' ruse, a disinformation
>tactic where a particular sighting, or a particular witness, is
>hyped, only to have the rug pulled out. It may very well be that
>the Mexican government wants Maussan 'out of the way', and what
>better way to do it than by discrediting him with an easily-
>pulled 'rug'. And as he is the most visible and vocal UFO
>proponent in Mexico, no doubt the ruse would take in thousands
>of saucer-eyed fans as well, many of whom would be wary of his
>next escapade.

Hi Jim, All,

You wrote:

>Sometimes, when something is just to good to be true... well, I
>would counsel extreme caution in any "pronouncements" from here
>on.....

>On the other hand, Maussan could take the opportunity to greatly
>increase his credibility by turning the tables on the rug-
>pullers, and declaring the case to be a hoax (_if_ it is one) or
>otherwise explainable, beating the disinformers to the punch.
>Somehow I doubt that will happen, though.....

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that simple human psychology and
response may be responsible for a lot of what we're witnessing?
Am I the only one that thinks it's possible that a lot of this
is coming from good old-fashioned jealousy? There is bound to be
plenty of it going around right now. _Especially_ among Jaime's
peers in Mexican ufology.

So far, one individual posted his resume to the List enumerating
all his previous history and contacts with the Mexican
government. A 'why not me' lament, if I ever read one. Now all
of this verbal ripping and tearing of Maussan in the media by
'other' Mexican ufologists.

I don't think the 'plot' is as complicated and convoluted as it
is being made out to be - ie; the Mexican government trying to
discredit Maussan and a few saucer-heads. Nope, I think the
bottom line on much of what we are seeing is just plain envy and
jealousy that the General did not choose one of them to entrust
the material to.

Simple, green-eyed jealousy. Nothing more, nothing less. It was
only a matter of time before it reared its ugly head. Again, I'm
very surprised that no one has mentioned the possibility that
this simple, and old as the hills, human emotion is motivating a
lot of what we're seeing.

BTW, good to see posts on the List from you again, Jim. I've
missed having you around.


Best,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

               Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:09:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:54:01 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Velez


>From: Billy Booth <Ufocasebook.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:42:41 EDT
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:44:22 -0400
>>Subject: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>Some info you might find interesting:

>I rec'd this email today from my friend, Kim Shaffer, State
>Director of MUFON, Tennessee East.

>-----

>Hey B J,

>Mexican UFO's caught on FLIR
>(possible answer to the de-bunkers)

<snip>

>Why is this relevant? Easy, the FLIR camera is a calibrated
>instrument. It was set up by its manufacturer to register
>thermal radiation sources at certain, probably "assigned"
>temperatures. The video can be analyzed by the maker of this
>FLIR device and a true temperature of the objects in the clip
>can be determined. Why has no one suggested this? Knowing as
>little as I do about Infrared, I feel this is a possible answer
>to the de-bunkers. Have the video analyzed by the FLIR
>technicians that calibrated the device. We will then have an
>approximate thermal reading on the objects. Then, armed with
>this data, the debunkers will crawl under their rocks.

>Hope this helps us find a few realistic answers.


Hello Billy & Kim,

You must have missed several of the earlier posts to the List.
Bruce Maccabee _is_ in touch/consulting with, a representative
of the company that manufactures the FLIR system.


Regards,

John Velez







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 22

                    Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:43:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:55:19 -0400
Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Lehmberg


>From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:29:49 -0400
>Subject: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>PRG
>Paradigm Research Group
>PRG Update - 4/17/04 - Addendum

>American Candidate

>Despite receiving the third largest number of support votes
>(35,000), Stephen Bassett was not one of the 24 finalists
>brought to Los Angeles to interview for the Showtime reality
>series, American Candidate. The message is clear: real
>candidates for the presidency (or House and Senate for that
>matter) cannot talk to the American people about the
>extraterrestrial presence, and "reality" candidates cannot talk
>to the American people about exopolitics - EMBARGO ON.

>www.americancandidate.com


Penn and Teller, and now Steve Bassett! That's it. I'm not
waiting around for three strikes of outrage. The first two were
bad enough. I'm cancelling my Showtime subscription, now.


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

              Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 08:57:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:50:26 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Speiser


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:19:25 +0000
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:19:51 -0700
>>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:44:22 -0400
>>>Subject: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>Jim and List,

>In the "good old days" Major Keyhoe and I always assumed that an
>incoming report, no matter how impressive seeming, could be
>either an explainable phenomenon or planted to discredit us,
>until proven otherwise. I have counselled caution in
>interpretation and accreptance of this case from the outset, and
>cessation of wild speculation.

Same here.


>I doubt seriously that the Mexican government would engage in a
>hoax, however. The case seems to be very straightforward.

I doubt that they would, too, in the sense of actually creating
the images physically or photo-optically.  However, I think it's
possible the MX government actually knows what the images
represent, perhaps an aberration in the FLIR or another flight
of planes, and somebody decided to have a good laugh at the
expense of the Mexican (and world) UFO community.  The tip-off
is the ridiculous statement that they "didn't know of any
scientists to give this to," so they gave it to Jaime Maussan,
of all people.  The corollary in this country would be if NASA
had a UFO video and by-passed Jim Oberg, giving it instead to
Wendelle Stevens.I'll be honest, I don't know the names of any
serious, scientific UFO researchers in Mexico, but I'm sure
someone here could provide us a list.

>So far, any possible conventional explanations seem unlikely in
>this case unless someone is deliberatly lying. The ball
>lightning, celestial swamp gas, and balloon hypotheses are
>hilarious!

But you must agree it was useful to raise those possibilities,
in order to emphatically discard them!

>If there is a conventional explanation, it is far more likely to
>be something in the nature of an instrumental artifact or some
>highly unusual extreme weather phenomenon (which the data also
>seems to rule out). This is an ideal case for ufology to
>actually be scientific with for a change. All too often ufology
>is as clownish as the ludicrous debunking explanations, or even
>more so. Two extremes of idiiocy.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am Stuck
in the middle with Hall!


==JJS==








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

              Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:08:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:53:10 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Speiser


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:06:27 -0400
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:19:51 -0700
>>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:44:22 -0400
>>>Subject: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>>SOURCE: La Cronica de Hoy
>>>DATE: 05/17/2004

>>>SEDENA AND THE UFO QUESTION
>>>by Raul Trejo Delarbre

>>Sorry, fellow Listers, but I smell a rat, and this article has
>>reinforced the odor.

>>We have all heard of the 'false flag' ruse, a disinformation
>>tactic where a particular sighting, or a particular witness, is
>>hyped, only to have the rug pulled out. It may very well be that
>>the Mexican government wants Maussan 'out of the way', and what
>>better way to do it than by discrediting him with an easily-
>>pulled 'rug'. And as he is the most visible and vocal UFO
>>proponent in Mexico, no doubt the ruse would take in thousands
>>of saucer-eyed fans as well, many of whom would be wary of his
>>next escapade.

>Hi Jim, All,

>You wrote:

>>Sometimes, when something is just to good to be true... well, I
>>would counsel extreme caution in any "pronouncements" from here
>>on.....

>>On the other hand, Maussan could take the opportunity to greatly
>>increase his credibility by turning the tables on the rug-
>>pullers, and declaring the case to be a hoax (_if_ it is one) or
>>otherwise explainable, beating the disinformers to the punch.
>>Somehow I doubt that will happen, though.....

>Hasn't it occurred to anyone that simple human psychology and
>response may be responsible for a lot of what we're witnessing?
>Am I the only one that thinks it's possible that a lot of this
>is coming from good old-fashioned jealousy? There is bound to be
>plenty of it going around right now. _Especially_ among Jaime's
>peers in Mexican ufology.

>So far, one individual posted his resume to the List enumerating
>all his previous history and contacts with the Mexican
>government. A 'why not me' lament, if I ever read one. Now all
>of this verbal ripping and tearing of Maussan in the media by
>'other' Mexican ufologists.

>I don't think the 'plot' is as complicated and convoluted as it
>is being made out to be - ie; the Mexican government trying to
>discredit Maussan and a few saucer-heads. Nope, I think the
>bottom line on much of what we are seeing is just plain envy and
>jealousy that the General did not choose one of them to entrust
>the material to.

>Simple, green-eyed jealousy. Nothing more, nothing less. It was
>only a matter of time before it reared its ugly head. Again, I'm
>very surprised that no one has mentioned the possibility that
>this simple, and old as the hills, human emotion is motivating a
>lot of what we're seeing.

>BTW, good to see posts on the List from you again, Jim. I've
>missed having you around.

Thanks. I've been in the middle of The Move Of My Life. Finally
starting to calm down.

I'm sorry to have to be one of those raising the spectre of
Maussan's past tribulations, and I admire your gallant defense
of him, but I think it's important to at least be aware of all
the possibilities. The last thing I want to have happen is for
(what's left of) scientific ufology to rally around this one big
case, the most talked-about in recent memory, and declare it "a
true unknown" only to have someone yell "Surprise!" With this
much visibility, it could set us back _decades_ - and we're
already decades behind where we should be!

Bottom line: keep your fingers crossed, but don't mortgage the
house yet.


==JJS==







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

                   Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:27:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:55:11 -0400
Subject: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators


http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/South/05/21/mystery.plane/index.html

[includes several photos and map]

As for the cause? "The only thing that would come to my mind
would be a high-speed drone," he says.

Or maybe a missile. "I believe whatever hit it flew right
through it and probably ended up in the Gulf of Mexico someplace
or somewhere in that bay," he said.

But investigators say they have not yet concluded that the
engine broke up in air, and say that is still the subject of
inquiry.

The mangled pilot's seat of Preziose's plane was found among the
wreckage. And military officials at Tyndall Air Force base,
about 140 miles from the marsh where the plane crashed, are
convinced that drones -- which are launched from the base -- had
nothing to do with the downing of Night Ship 282.

The base did not launch any drones the evening of October 23,
2002, says Lt. Col. Jerry Kerby, commander of the 82 Aerial
Targets Squadron at Tyndall, located on the Florida panhandle.

...much more at URL...


Terry


-- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona USA
fortean1.nul








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

              Lyons Bald Mountain Sonora California - 05-22-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:02:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:56:42 -0400
Subject: Lyons Bald Mountain Sonora California - 05-22-04



Lyons Bald Mountain in Sonora, California

Date:  May 22, 2004
Time:  1:45 a.m.

Number of witnesses: 1
Number of objects: 2
Shape of objects: Unknown

Full Description of event/sighting: Sitting out on back porch
facing ENE.  To the NE, constellation Cassiopeia just rising
above mountain.  Saw what I thought were two stars just to the
left of the constellation when one went down below the mountain.
 I told my brother I saw something go down and I told him it was
to the left of the other star next to Cassiopeia.  As I watched,
the other "star" began to drop as well.  It was almost yellow
compared to the real stars and just before it went behind the
mountain, it turned red.  Got a feeling of dread that made me
almost sick to my stomach when it changed color.  Sighting
lasted no more than a couple of minutes.  The feeling of
malevolence lasted a bit longer.


Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

                 Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:38:23 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:58:02 -0400
Subject: Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand?


It's so funny to follow this story and it's aftermath.

All of us who've been in Ufology for decades saw it coming and
hopefully are enjoying the formulaic responses from debunkers.

The path of degradation is text book.

First comes the weather balloon, meteors, ball lightning excuses
and then when the old standards don't work comes the 'character
assassination' attempts.

Credibility is always a stones throw away as we've seen in
politics.

You can't stand the message so you attack the messenger.

Same goes for over enthusiastic Ufologists. Somehow someway
they'll edge that 'extraterrestrial' thing in there without one
shred of evidence to support it.

I'm glad we have such thorough researchers on this list who are
doing the real science and detective work.

The press sure isn't. Reason why is because it's more 'Chic' to
cover the quagmire of Iraq and politics and which celebrity got
a divorce.

An old Scottish barber I know from back home said to us kids
when we'd get sore during a baseball game we were playing:

"Laddies! A cool head makes a comfortable butt!"

Meaning keeping a cool head would make the strategy go right.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

             Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:14:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:59:55 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:31:11 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:34:17 +0100
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:32 -0400
>>>Subject: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>It must be noted that the Seismography Unit registered
>>>movement at the time of the unusual accident, a detail
>>>reminiscent of the Roswell, New Mexico (USA) event of 1947.

>>Not only the Roswell incident - check the "earthquake" at time of
>>Berwyns event.

>>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/berwyns.txt for references.

>I don't want to open up another discussion of the Roswell matter
>by any means. But, if there is any seismic record of the Roswell
>event, wouldn't that nail down the date and time of the supposed
>crash?

>Who was using a seismometer there in 1947?

Hello Larry,

First, as you know, I'm not a ufologist, being mainly interested
in the physics we tend to find associated with these sort of
events

Second - I know nothing of Roswell's details, but expect
seismographs probably _were_ watched closely in that decade (and
in that neck of the woods), to calibrate our atom bomb tests and
to attempt to detect theirs.

Third - the "rational explanation" for the Berwyn mountains
event (most recently from the BBC) blatantly ignores most of the
evidence - the build-up of sightings over some months ceasing
that night, the so-called `meteors' flying cross-country headed
for the Berwyns that night, and the `co-incidental' earthquake
that night.

What the skeptics did was simply smear or re-write the
associated `sightings' evidence and then pretend everything else
either didn't happen or was `coincidence'.

Meteors and earthquakes do _not_ arrange identical rendez-vous
in my limited experience, having widely separated origins (about
as widely separated as you can get). Such coincidences are
improbable.

Larry I'm not drawing any conclusions, just hoping to view _all_
the evidence, free from blatant obfuscation and re-writes.


Cheers,

Ray

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

               Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Booth

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 16:29:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:01:30 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Booth


>From: Billy Booth <Ufocasebook.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:42:41 EDT
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:44:22 -0400
>>Subject: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

<snip>

>Why is this relevant? Easy, the FLIR camera is a calibrated
>instrument. It was set up by its manufacturer to register
>thermal radiation sources at certain, probably "assigned"
>temperatures. The video can be analyzed by the maker of this
>FLIR device and a true temperature of the objects in the clip
>can be determined. Why has no one suggested this? Knowing as
>little as I do about Infrared, I feel this is a possible answer
>to the de-bunkers. Have the video analyzed by the FLIR
>technicians that calibrated the device. We will then have an
>approximate thermal reading on the objects. Then, armed with
>this data, the debunkers will crawl under their rocks.

Th flir device is not a radiometer. It does register
temperature, but in order to make a "pretty picture" it
automatically changes gain (amplification) which means it
intentionally "loses" the ability to record actual temperatures.
The flir engineers will attempt to learn as much as they can,
but they may not be able to get a direct measure of temperature
from the equipment.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

               Re: Mexican Lights Related To Phoenix Lights? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 16:34:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:02:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Lights Related To Phoenix Lights? -


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:20:34 +1000
>Subject: Mexican Lights Related To Phoenix Lights?


>Source: Fox News 11 - Tucson, Arizona

>http://www.fox11az.com/news/state/stories/KMSB-20040519-fambp-phoenixlights.1db
18284a.html

>05-19-04

>Mexican Lights Related To Phoenix lights?

<snip>

>"Dilettoso said his analysis of that sighting and of the latest
>one out of Mexico have striking similarities."

<snip>

>Now I am not a great fan of analysis by Dilettoso, however he
>has some pretty neat software for image analysis. It will be
>interesting to see what he comes up with re the Mexican UFO
>footage. His statement above is an interesting comparison.

>We all know that the Phoenix Lights (10pm event) were flares
>dropped from aircraft, it is just the distance from the range
>that still has a question over it.

>What if Dilettoso finds the same signature between the two
>events?

>Would that then mean that the Mexican UFO's in the Infrared
>footage were 'flames'?

Flares woudl certainly make IR images. They would also likely be
visible, even in the daylight sky.

In the Phoenx case the 10 PM lights were detected moving slowly
eastward (direction of wind drift).

In the Mexican case the "flares" are moving at over 100 mph
(maybe 200 mph). Perhaps these flares have achieved their speed
by consuming many chili peppers.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

                     Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:10:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:04:34 -0400
Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Freeman


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:43:48 -0500
>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>>From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:29:49 -0400
>>Subject: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>>American Candidate

>>Despite receiving the third largest number of support votes
>>(35,000), Stephen Bassett was not one of the 24 finalists
>>brought to Los Angeles to interview for the Showtime reality
>>series, American Candidate. The message is clear: real
>>candidates for the presidency (or House and Senate for that
>>matter) cannot talk to the American people about the
>>extraterrestrial presence, and "reality" candidates cannot talk
>>to the American people about exopolitics - EMBARGO ON.

>>www.american candidate.com

>Penn and Teller, and now Steve Bassett! That's it. I'm not
>waiting around for three strikes of outrage. The first two were
>bad enough. I'm cancelling my Showtime subscription,now.

Steve, Alfred and esteemed List,

...And I won't be subscribing to Showtime to view the "event"
either! If I may add a few comments about this, let me just say
that it would be up to us, the UFO research community, to change
the course of events regarding whether or not the public and the
mass media take the subject of UFOs seriously enough to thrust
it past the realm of ridicule.

After watching CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 program where they
chose to interview the same skeptic trying to explain away the
Mexican UFO sighting incident as flares or ball lightning twice
in the same week, I am more con- vinced than ever that more
needs to be done to 'enlighten' the uninitiated.

One of the things we can start doing is to write letters to the
Showtime management, etc. asking why Mr. Stephen Bassett did not
qualify for a finalist position. If those who refuse to give the
UFO phenomenon a proper forum for dis- cussion continue to
deceive, lie, and distort the facts,  then it is the
responsibility for those of us who believe it deserves such, to
make the case for a fair and balanced discussion on UFOs.
Otherwise we shouldn't complain because we got the "short end of
the stick".

We have to make a decision, do we as a research community want
to remain 'underground', so to speak, or do we want to make a
difference and force those "in the know", to tell us what needs
to be known. What needs to be known could make all the
difference in our future and that of generations to come.

Yes Alfred, I am outraged, too. If only there were more souls
out there like you, maybe, we could have some answers to this
age-old mystery. As referenced in an earlier post by Mr. Richard
Hall, the winds are not blowing in our direction, but we can
change the direction the winds blow if_we_choose_to_ do_ so.

If I remember correctly, this is a democracy in this United
States of America and we the people have the right to life,
liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The lives of unknown
numbers of citizens have been disrupted in this great country
and changed forever through the events of the UFO presence, the
freedom to  know why, what and where these mysterious
manifestations of God's creation are being witnessed have been
usurped by those who believe that the less we know about the
truth, the better off we will be, and the pursuit of happiness
has been substituted by the needs of the greedy, evil few.

I am sorry if I have offended anybody with the above, but those
are the facts, facts we have to deal with if we really want to
see changes in the way the media, government/politicians and our
neighbors see us in in what we see as the truth.

Go ahead. Make my day.


Peace and light,

Kelly Freeman








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

                  Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:33:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:07:59 -0400
Subject: Re:  Precedent For Mexican UFO? - Stanford


>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:31:38 +0200
>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:29:37 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:10:58 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>>>From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:51:01 +0200
>>>>Subject: Re: Precedent For Mexican UFO?

>>>>Intense IR waves "burned out" the wrist watch of a UFO
>>>>witness on June 19, 1969, between King's Lynn and Docking,
>>>>England. During the UFO sighting, the fluorescence cyphers
>>>>of the witness' watch lit up. After the sighting the cyphers
>>>>would never light up again. The car's motor hat stalled.
>>>>When the witness left the car, he felt as being in a strong
>>>>electrostatic field. His hair stood up. 30 to 50 meters above
>>>>him hovered an orange glowing "inversed mushroom", as large
>>>>as a house. (G.I.R. Lore 1969: Strange Efects of UFOs,
>>>>Washington: NICAP.)

>>>A problem evoked by that report is, however: Assuming
>>>the case is a valid one, we cannot be sure whether it was
>>>actually infrared (IR), per se, that caused the numbers on
>>>the watch to light up and never be able to glow again.
>>>After all, we are told that the car's motor stalled (I
>>>suspect that would be caused by other wavelengths and not
>>>by IR) and that an electrostatic effect seemed to be sensed,
>>>with, reportedly, hair standing up (if the latter 'effect'
>>>was literal and not just an emotion-induced feeling).

>>>One might conjecture that any IR effect strong enough to
>>>ruin the watch's numbers would have had some very strong
>>>effect on local organisms, including some terribly strong
>>>heating effects upon the witness. Were such reported?

>>>In short, if the thing about the watch is correct, one
>>>might consider the possibility that some wavelength(s)
>>>other than IR could have been involved, especially if
>>>the observer did not report a very strong heat.

>>>If anyone of you can provide me with a more complete
>>>report of that case or offer to sell me a copy of NICAP's
>>>Strange Effects of UFOs, NICAP, Washington, D.C., 1969,
>>>containing it, I would be very appreciative.

>>I cited from the German literature (a CD-ROM edited by
>>Illobrand von Ludwiger, section online at:

>>http://www.mufon-ces.org/docs/ufoem.pdf

>>I don't have the NICAP report myself but will try to get it
>>for us. Others, however, should also try...

>Indeed Ludwiger told me X-rays could also account for such
>an effect. We couldn't find the NICAP source. When going
>through the literature, the other case turned out to be
>directly relevant:

>>>>During a UFO sighting on August 19, 1961, in La Boule, France,
>>>>the local weather station detected a heat increase resembling
>>>>1.38 mV.

>>>>During the great heat wave in summer, readings showed an
>>>>increase of only 0.4 mV. (H. Ragaz 1961: Weltrundschau, in:
>>>>Der Weltraumbote, Nr. 68/69, p.15.)

>The heat increase was actually measured by an IR sensor. I am
>translating a case summary:

>"On August 9th, 1961, multiple guests of the casino of La Boule,
>France, recognized a luminous object of about 40 meters size in
>a few hundred meters height. Even in relatively great distance
>from the object the witnesses sensed a "hot air breeze"
>emanating from the object. At the same time the infrared
>detector of the weather station of La Boule measured a
>considerable heat increase, corresponding to a 1.38 Millivolt
>amplitude. During the great heat wave of July no more than 0.4
>Millivolt amplitudes had been recorded." (I.v. Ludwiger 1992:
>Der Stand der UFO-Forschung, Zweitausendeins, 4th edition,
>p.144.)

>Infrared sensors are of course routinely used in Hessdalen:

>http://www.hessdalen.org/reports/Spectrographic_records.shtml

Thanks, Hannes,

I now have the physical effect report in the NICAP publication and
offer the following commentary:

For future reference in the event we encounter another case like
this (although phosphorescent watch faces seem to be a thing of
the past), the watch face should be carefully studied to try and
determine what might have happened to the coating on the glow-
in-the-dark numbers, causing them to permanently cease
phosphorescing (after the event) and what, deductively, might
have caused them to glow (seemingly-abnormally) during the
event.

Off-hand, I would guess that the phosphorus damage was due to
either the reported electrostatic effect or some radiational
effect temporarily energizing but permanently altering the
electron state of the phosphorus, which state facilitates
phosphorescence, a quasi-stable electron excitation state
involving a change of spin state (inter-system crossing) which
decays only slowly.

Phosphorescence happens when atoms in the material become
'excited'. Atoms can become 'excited' into phosphorescence in
two ways. The first way for an atom to become excited is by
thermal excitation which is where the electrons are heated
('electron temperature' change) in some way which causes them to
rise to a higher energy level. I doubt that was responsible in
this UFO case, because the report describes no great heat  --
 especially enough to cause anything (even phosphorus) to glow
extraordinarily. The second way in which an atom can become
excited is by ELECTRON COLLISION (or ELECTRON BOMBARDMENT) which
is where electrons collide causing them to rise to a higher
energy level and a different spin state.  Because of this
change, the radiative transition is delayed and the
phosphorescent material glows a while after the incident
illumination, or else the (as postulated here) electron
radiation, stops.

Thus, because of the situation as described in the UFO report
and the fact that phosphorescence is a radiative transition
involving a change in the spin multiplicity of a molecule, I
postulate that the reported extra-phosphorescence (if not a
misperception due to excitement) during the event under
discussion most likely was caused by electron bombardment,
instead of by infrared irradiation. Also, the electrical effect
physically felt by the witness, if at a high-enough level, could
easily have facilitated  rapid corrosion or oxidation of the
phosphorus, permanently removing a phosphorescence-prone
electron configuration.

That done, the numbers on the watch would never phosphoresce
again, just as the witness reported.  Personally I would be
surprised if a witness would 'dream up' such a scientifically
plausible thing to incorporate into a hoax. For that reason, in
my estimate the case takes on added interest and seems to
provide possible insight into some of the UFO physics,
regardless of the origin of such objects.

More serious study of physical effect cases from the perspective
of possible physics, especially in the context of instrumentally
recorded data, could pay respectable scientific dividends.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

                   Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:00:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:13:44 -0400
Subject: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators


http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/South/05/21/mystery.plane/index.html

05-21-04

CNN.com - Plane's wreckage puzzles investigators - May 21,
2004.url


Hello All,

A further update on the Airfreighter that it, well, something.

Pictures too.

GT McCoy







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

              Re: Have A Look: The Future Of Near-Space Flight?

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:27:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:15:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Have A Look: The Future Of Near-Space Flight?


Hello List,

The following link reports interesting work on by no means the
kind of sometimes gigantic, hover-to-hypersonic UFOs such as my
project has documented, but it is fascinating and suggestive of
some humankind's relatively primitive but at-least-outside-the-
box-of-rocketry efforts:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5025388/

Hmmm... That's in my home state of Texas, where I guess they
still think bigger, judging from the mile-plus size of some of
the craft planned for the next few years.  :)

Anyhow, have fun dreaming of our future,


Ray Stanford


"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

                Re: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators -

From: Harry Giarratana <shgia790.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:13:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:22:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators -


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:27:09 -0700
>Subject: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators

>http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/South/05/21/mystery.plane/index.html

>[includes several photos and map]

>As for the cause? "The only thing that would come to my mind
>would be a high-speed drone," he says.

>Or maybe a missile. "I believe whatever hit it flew right
>through it and probably ended up in the Gulf of Mexico someplace
>or somewhere in that bay," he said.

>But investigators say they have not yet concluded that the
>engine broke up in air, and say that is still the subject of
>inquiry.

>The mangled pilot's seat of Preziose's plane was found among
>the wreckage. And military officials at Tyndall Air Force base,
>about 140 miles from the marsh where the plane crashed, are
>convinced that drones -- which are launched from the base -- had
>nothing to do with the downing of Night Ship 282.

>The base did not launch any drones the evening of October 23,
>2002, says Lt. Col. Jerry Kerby, commander of the 82 Aerial
>Targets Squadron at Tyndall, located on the Florida panhandle.

>...much more at URL...


Hello everyone,

I would be most concerned with the following exerpts from the
NTSB brief:

<snip>

The main result from the investigation is that the material in
the red streaks on the skin of the accident airplane was
significantly different from the other materials that were
examined for comparison: the red cargo bag, the red pitot cover,
the paint on the airplane and the piece from the unmanned aerial
vehicle. The spectra that were obtained at Wright Patterson Air
Force base are effectively identical to those obtained by the
laboratory hired by the insurance company, indicating that the
red streaks on all the pieces of the airplane are the same
material. Without a specific candidate material for comparison,
it is not possible to identify the source of the red streaks.

<snip>

Most of all this one; I wonder if the equipment is in working
order now....

<snip>

According to the FAA, the equipment used to record the radar
data for this area was inoperative, and had been inoperable for
several months. Therefore, there was no recorded data available
to the investigation for review. The only data was a "snap shot"
of the tracks of the Cargomaster (C208) and DC-10 retrieved from
Mobile Regional Departure Control equipment. That information
showed the Cargomaster and DC-10 never crossed paths before the
Cargomaster's radar return went into coast mode at 19:46:00. It
also showed that the DC-10 was to the Cargomaster pilot's left,
not straight ahead and, later, to the right, as called out by
the controller.

<snip>

If we are to believe that the equipment that was working that
night didn't paint a return of the object, then the technology
being used to obscure the object had to have been state-of-the-
art. The "streaks" of red residue, which "suggested a
composition of a phthalate-based polyester with some inorganic
silicate material" points to "terrestrial-based", known
compounds. Not to mention that the object had to have been huge,
considering the damage to the Cessna's engine.

This isn't going away, gentlemen.


Harry

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do
evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." - Albert
Einstein








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

                Re: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators -

From: Harry Giarratana <shgia790.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:19:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:40:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators -


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:00:29 -0700
>Subject: Plane's Wreckage Puzzles Investigators

>http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/South/05/21/mystery.plane/index.html
>05-21-04

>CNN.com - Plane's wreckage puzzles investigators - May 21, 2004.url

>Hello All,

>A further update on the Airfreighter that it, well, something.
>Pictures too.

> GT McCoy

For those who have not seen the official report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief2.asp?ev_id021029X05400&ntsbno=ATL03FA008&akey=1

Harry

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do
evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." - Albert
Einstein










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 23

                        Anthony Woods - The Closure?

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:40:56 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 17:25:27 -0400
Subject: Anthony Woods - The Closure?



Dear List,

Please click on the link below, and I would ask if anyone has
any comments on this case?

http://rense.com/general45/woodsnew1.htm


Regards,

Roy






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                            Magonia Supplement 50

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:42:31 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:14:01 -0400
Subject: Magonia Supplement 50



This is the 50th Magonia Supplement, and is a special issue
featuring the case of:

The Downfall Of Corporal Valdes

by Diego Zuniga, the editor in chief of the Chilean ufological
bulletin La Nave de los Locos :

http://www.lanavedeloslocos.cl

Eight soldiers in the north of Chile see two small lights. The
corporal in charge of the group disappears, to later return
speaking incoherent words. This is the plot of the Valdes
Case.

Twenty-seven years after the best-known Chilean UFO story was
first reported, some still try to revive it despite the lack of
new reports. Nevertheless, multiple incoherencies in the account
make the 'abduction' of Cpl. Armando Valdes Garrido a complex
and dubious story. This is because of all the talk about UFOs in
the newspapers and on radio and television - everyone was
talking about them. The reporters themselves proved this when
they wrote that "for him [Valdes]... the movements of the
brightly-lit Unidentified Flying Objects are not a mystery".

Read the full account at:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms50.htm


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                     Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Chapman

From: Mary Chapman <alfie107.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:10:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:15:57 -0400
Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Chapman


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:10:26 EDT
>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:43:48 -0500
>>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>>>From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:29:49 -0400
>>>Subject: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>>>American Candidate

>>>Despite receiving the third largest number of support votes
>>>(35,000), Stephen Bassett was not one of the 24 finalists
>>>brought to Los Angeles to interview for the Showtime reality
>>>series, American Candidate. The message is clear: real
>>>candidates for the presidency (or House and Senate for that
>>>matter) cannot talk to the American people about the
>>>extraterrestrial presence, and "reality" candidates cannot talk
>>>to the American people about exopolitics - EMBARGO ON.

>>>www.american candidate.com

>>Penn and Teller, and now Steve Bassett! That's it. I'm not
>>waiting around for three strikes of outrage. The first two were
>>bad enough. I'm cancelling my Showtime subscription,now.

>Steve, Alfred and esteemed List,

>...And I won't be subscribing to Showtime to view the "event"
>either! If I may add a few comments about this, let me just say
>that it would be up to us, the UFO research community, to change
>the course of events regarding whether or not the public and the
>mass media take the subject of UFOs seriously enough to thrust
>it past the realm of ridicule.

<snip>

>Go ahead. Make my day.

Kelly,

I took up the gauntlet and wrote in to Showtime with my
complaints about their disregard for Stephen Bassett as a
candidate in "The Amercian Candidate" series.  I
hope_many_others will do the same.

Below is the link to Showtime. Click on the link "Contact" to
send an email to them!

Mary Chapman

http://americancandidate.com/contact.php








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

               Re: Niagara Falls Ontario UFO Photo? - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 17:34:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:18:59 -0400
Subject: Re:  Niagara Falls Ontario UFO Photo? - Balaskas


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:28:56 -0700
>Subject: Niagara Falls Ontario UFO Photo?

>Niagara Falls, Ontario UFO Photo?

>Photo can be view at:

>http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1296

>Time was 18:54:06 (minus 5 hours GMT) 10 May 2004

>The photo was taken over Niagara Falls, Ontario Canada. The
>fellow who took the photo did not see anything at the time the
>shot was taken. Later he noticed something when browsing through
>all the pictures he had taken.

>Thanks to the person who took the photos.

>Brian Vike
>Director HBCC UFO

<snip>

Hi Everyone!

The saucer-shaped image in the Ontario UFO (actually a BLURFO*,
since it was not noticed by the fellow who took the photo) photo
is that of a bird, one of many that we saw flying around Niagara
Falls!

My friend Brad (he's an experienced photographer and a colleague
of mine at York U.'s Physics and Astronomy Department) and I
drove down to Niagara Falls yesterday to see if I could
duplicate this photo of a UFO. Although the sky was cloudy and
grey when we arrived, we waited until about the same time of day
that this UFO photo was taken to take our pictures with a simple
film camera and a digitial camera. Fortunately for us, the Sun
came out and we we able to take pictures under the same lighting
conditions and with the same landmarks in the background as
those in the UFO photo, including the distant tower at the
horizon.

The digital pictures and the film camera photos I just got back
today all show images of the birds in the distance that we had
noticed in the sky at the time. As I suspected, they too look
like the saucer shaped image in the UFO photo! I think we can
safely conclude that this UFO or BLURFO is now an IFO - a bird.
If this UFO was not a bird but something much larger it would
have easily been noticed by the many thousands of tourists on
both sides of the border.

Looking through my pictures I noticed that a few of which were
taken in the mist at the bottom of the Canadian side of the
Horseshoe Falls exhibit many luminous round orbs that seem to be
all around Brad and myself. These mysterious UFO-like images or
Orbs can be explained as the very fine water droplets near the
camera lense that were lit-up by the light from my flash. What
else could they be?

On the way to Niagara Falls my friend and I had a UFO sighting
of our own. What we saw was a white spherical object hovering
low over the horizon. As we got closer, we noticed the UFO was
on the U.S. side of the border. Fascinated by this strange sight
of what resembled a hot air balloon except that it would rise
and descend vertically over the same spot, we crossed over to
the New York side of Niagara Falls from Ontario for a closer
look. We ended up taking a ride on this UFO! Our spherical UFO
turned out to be a large tetherd helium filled balloon. The view
of Niagara Falls from our 75 foot diameter "UFO" as it quietly
rose to a height of 400 feet above the U.S. was very impressive.
Brad and I took many more photos.

Back at the Canadian side of Niagara Falls we had an encounter
with aliens - a live Roswell ET that escaped, scaring our Area-
51 host who yelled at us to run for our lives! All this was at
the 'Alien Encounter' exhibit within a building with a flying
saucer on the outside that seems to have crashed into it. My
friend Brad even took a picture of me with a tall live alien
just before we took the tour of this Canadian UFO museum.

Brad and I drove back to Toronto later that evening just at the
start of a thunder and lightning storm with high winds and heavy
rains that knocked out traffic lights while listening to Errol
Bruce-Knapp, Dave Furlotte, Mike Woods, Victor Viggiani and John
Velez talk about UFOs on the radio.

That trip to Niagara Falls was a very strange day indeed for
Brad and I!

Nick Balaskas

*http://www.rense.com/general49/blurfo.htm







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

             Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:26:47 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:21:15 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Friedman


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:08:40 -0700
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

<snip>

>I'm sorry to have to be one of those raising the spectre of
>Maussan's past tribulations, and I admire your gallant defense
>of him, but I think it's important to at least be aware of all
>the possibilities. The last thing I want to have happen is for
>(what's left of) scientific ufology to rally around this one big
>case, the most talked-about in recent memory, and declare it "a
>true unknown" only to have someone yell "Surprise!" With this
>much visibility, it could set us back _decades_ - and we're
>already decades behind where we should be!

>Bottom line: keep your fingers crossed, but don't mortgage the
>house yet.


Certainly those so called scientists who have demonstrated their
total lack of objectivity with such idiotic suggestions (without
a shred of evidence) that it was ball lightning, meteorites, or
space debris, or gaseous phenomena, or atmospheric sparks
(lasting 30+ minutes, no less) have demonstrated their lack of
objectivity and make the choice of  Jaime seem reasonable. He at
least put the data out there so that people really knowledgeable
about UFOs and science (professionals like Bruce) could examine
the data. The clowns ignored all the data.


Stan Friedman







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                       05-19-04 BC Case Becomes Bigger

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:21:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:27:23 -0400
Subject: 05-19-04 BC Case Becomes Bigger


Howdy List

It appears that I have another major case which is still coming
together. I reported a sighting on May 19, 2004 out of Trail,
British Columbia. Well that was not the only thing witnessed
that evening.

What makes this such an interesting case is that Trail had a
very bad storm that evening and one half of Trail was without
power.

Another witness said they saw what appeared to be a funnel cloud
and when it disappeared she saw a strange craft.

Things even got stranger, when the weather took a turn for the
worse. At the Golf Club the folks who were playing were whisked
into the Club House and there they watched the clock moving
backwards.

Other objects were witnessed that evening also.

The witnesses who reported these objects are very prominent
members of the community.

Lots to come on this case.....

Take care

Brian








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                        Summer '03 Winnipeg Manitoba

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:49:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:30:11 -0400
Subject: Summer '03 Winnipeg Manitoba


Winnipeg, Manitoba

I lived in Winnipeg during 2003. On eve of June 31st or July
1st, the city of Winnipeg hosts a fire works show at the Forks
Park, which is located on the Red and Assinibione Rivers
intersect.

It was eve of June 31, or July 1st, at the Forks. It was a
prefectly beautiful evening, no overcast, or clouds. I had seen
lights moving high in the sky, but they could be satillites or
meteors. The fire work show began, spectacular as usual. But I
wasn't watching the fire works. I was watching what I could see
above the display of fireworks, it was more lights!!

There were so many lined up together, all heading in a north
direction, I couldn't believe it. I looked around to see if
anyone else could see it. But everyone was amazed by the
spectacular fireworks. I wanted to yell at everyone to look and
look further into the sky, but I didn't want to seem mad or
cause any public hysteria. I'm sure that someone else must have
witnessed what I seen.

I was in a bit of shock, but I shouldn't be surprised at why
nobody else seen those lights. Reading the Acton story just
compelled me to report my sighting, because I have never
experienced anything else quite like it. I thought we were
definitely going to have contact that evening, but nothing ever
came of it.


Thank you to the wiitness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Taylor

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:17:26 +1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:32:52 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Taylor


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:02:37 -0400
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:41:48 +1000
>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

><snip>

>>I may have missed it if posted, but has anyone established the
>>air current speed at the 12,000 ft altitude at the time of the
>>sighting? I know that air speeds can exceed 200m/h at altitude.
>>This is an important point to establish.

>>>I'll tell you what, the day you can get one of your balloon
>>>"Hoax devices" to fly laterally at approximately 12,000 ft.
>>>altitude while moving fast enough to overtake, surround and then
>>>pass an airplane that is travelling at 200 + mph, I will give
>>>your not thought out too well explanation consideration. I
>>>promise.

>>Time will tell. Maybe. You have to do more than just look at the
>>evidence, you have to test it to get somewhere near the right
>>answers.

>You are forgetting one thing Barry. If the objects were being
>boosted along by 200mph winds at 12,000 feet [very unlikely as
>the jet stream is up in the  approx.28,0000-32,000 foot level]
>then the aircraft would be boosted along as well, meaning both
>the aircraft and the objects would both be in the same moving
>body of air. In any event, balloons are out of the question.

Don,

I am not at all saying the objects are balloons. i.e. the
helium filled weather balloon type. These of cause, would not
show up on infrared as the Mexico objects do.

What I am suggesting is, that the objects are showing to be very
hot, hence the footage as seen. It is the ragged edges and the
upright cylinder they shows up in the centre of the illumination
when the stills are False Colour Enhanced. These features,
especially the nature of the area immediately surrounding each
object that are 'identical' to the results found when analysing
known hoax devices here. I have these images on my web page re
this case. Have a close look at them and you will see what I am
talking about.

A large plastic bag with a burning fuel similar to petroleum
based wax block suspended under the bag by wire, will fill the
bag with heated air, and the whole thing rises like a hot air
balloon. They drift in the wind currents for as long as the fuel
burns and the air inside cools down. They travel for miles and
can gain altitudes until out of sight.

I have had 50 or so sightings of these and captured most on
video. This has been an interest of mine (study, not letting
them off) for the last 7 years. I explain my thoughts on them in
the page on hoax devices on my site. Kids have launched them
too.

Real UFOs that I have put through the same enhancing process,
show a smoother, and totally different effect surrounding the
object. The effects around real UFOs is more even, resulting in
smooth edged enhanced images.

Has the zoom power of the infrared camera been established?


Regards,

Barry Taylor







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

             Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:38:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:49:16 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:14:45 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:31:11 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:34:17 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:32 -0400
>>>>Subject: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>>It must be noted that the Seismography Unit registered
>>>>movement at the time of the unusual accident, a detail
>>>>reminiscent of the Roswell, New Mexico (USA) event of 1947.

>>>Not only the Roswell incident - check the "earthquake" at time of
>>>Berwyns event.

>>>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/berwyns.txt for references.

>>I don't want to open up another discussion of the Roswell matter
>>by any means. But, if there is any seismic record of the Roswell
>>event, wouldn't that nail down the date and time of the supposed
>>crash?

>>Who was using a seismometer there in 1947?

>Hello Larry,

<snip>

>Third - the "rational explanation" for the Berwyn mountains
>event (most recently from the BBC) blatantly ignores most of the
>evidence - the build-up of sightings over some months ceasing
>that night, the so-called `meteors' flying cross-country headed
>for the Berwyns that night, and the `co-incidental' earthquake
>that night.

>What the skeptics did was simply smear or re-write the
>associated `sightings' evidence and then pretend everything else
>either didn't happen or was `coincidence'.

>Meteors and earthquakes do _not_ arrange identical rendez-vous
>in my limited experience, having widely separated origins (about
>as widely separated as you can get). Such coincidences are
>improbable.


Ray,

In relation to the Berwyn Mountain incident, I couldn't have put
these points better myself.

Andy Roberts spends a great deal of time telling us how thorough
and hard working a reasearcher he is, and I wouldn't argue that
he puts the hours in but it's the way he strings the evidence
together afterwards that leaves him open to criticism.

And with this case, he did exactly what you've alleged -
compressed it down so it fits in with his philosphy and
dismissed or ignored other evidence that didn't fit the picture,
including, unbelievably, certain witness testimony.

You mentioned the BBC and a recent contribution from them, Could
you let me know what this is?


Stuart Miller








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                    Link To NTSB Report On Night Ship 282

From: Harry Giarratana <shgia790.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:40:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:53:36 -0400
Subject: Link To NTSB Report On Night Ship 282



Hello Everyone,

For those who haven't seen the NTSB report on Cessna 208B, N76U,
call sign Night Ship 282, here's the link to the NTSB page:

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id021029X05400&key=1


Harry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                    Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:29:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:55:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:42:31 +0100
>Subject: Magonia Supplement 50

>This is the 50th Magonia Supplement, and is a special issue
>featuring the case of:

>The Downfall Of Corporal Valdes

>by Diego Zuniga, the editor in chief of the Chilean ufological
>bulletin La Nave de los Locos :

>http://www.lanavedeloslocos.cl

>Eight soldiers in the north of Chile see two small lights. The
>corporal in charge of the group disappears, to later return
>speaking incoherent words. This is the plot of the Valdes
>Case.

<snip>

>Read the full account at:

>http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms50.htm


...Hang on, Mr. Rimmer, though I suspect you're too smart a man
to fail to perceive that reality slipping away from you - feel
it crawling beneath the fingers of a weakening hand.


alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net
...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                         Project UFO The Old TV Show

From: Greg Boone Evolbaby.nul
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:05:31 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:58:55 -0400
Subject: Project UFO The Old TV Show


I remember this show as a kid. It was produced by Jack Webb. It
was very 'matter of fact' and I vaguely recall some of the
episodes.

http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/EpisodeGuideServlet/showid-9331/Project_UFO
/

I found a fan page to the old tv show "Project UFO" that details
more about the show and it's 26 episode run.

Worth a glance!

http://www.glowingdial.com/p_ufo.htm


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                  MERLIN C-26 Metroliner Military Aircraft

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:34:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:17:11 -0400
Subject: MERLIN C-26 Metroliner Military Aircraft



Hello all,

Here is the whole info on the Merlin C-26 Metroliner
- known by commuter Crews-and Passengers, as 'The San Antonio
Sewer Pipe'.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-26.htm

Also, a mistake by me the engines are Garret 331's.


GT McCoy







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                   Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul><roy@thelosthaven.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:40:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:18:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Hale


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:40:56 +0100
>Subject: Anthony Woods - The Closure?

>Please click on the link below, and I would ask if anyone has
>any comments on this case?

>http://rense.com/general45/woodsnew1.htm


List,

Is ufology this dead?

Not one comment on someone filming UFOs and then drops it like a
ton of bricks?


Roy










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

             Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:40:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:21:14 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:38:17 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:14:45 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:31:11 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

<snip>

>>>I don't want to open up another discussion of the Roswell matter
>>>by any means. But, if there is any seismic record of the Roswell
>>>event, wouldn't that nail down the date and time of the supposed
>>>crash?

>>Third - the "rational explanation" for the Berwyn mountains
>>event (most recently from the BBC) blatantly ignores most of the
>>evidence - the build-up of sightings over some months ceasing
>>that night, the so-called `meteors' flying cross-country headed
>>for the Berwyns that night, and the `co-incidental' earthquake
>>that night.

>In relation to the Berwyn Mountain incident, I couldn't have put
>these points better myself.

>You mentioned the BBC and a recent contribution from them, Could
>you let me know what this is?

Hello Stuart,

Yup, although not very recent, but I'm still angry about BBC
producers' omission of factual evidence and reports - then their
arrogant dismissal of (near unanimous?) criticism - then their
refusal to appear on the "Feedback" program where that criticism
could have been answered.

These messages bracketed the "Feedback" prog of Fri 7 Nov '03

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m04-017.shtml
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m07-006.shtml
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m07-013.shtml
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m09-015.shtml
It's quoted hurriedly in third & at more length in fourth.

Maybe you could get tape or transcript of program from
feedback.nul

You can see mails I responded to, in the Nov archive.

Am still b***** angry at what was, effectively, a cover-up, but
now expect ignorance from domestic BBC. [Not World Service, which
can be a different animal]

[W.S broadcast my nat. hist. account of 'African' porcupines
living near me (along w/occasional wolves), in mountains of S.
Italy a few years ago - blinkered domestic BBC would've probably
shouted "Gedaway! - Never happen!"]


Cheers

Ray D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:05:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:23:06 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Groff


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:17:26 +1000
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:02:37 -0400
>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:41:48 +1000
>>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

<snip>

>>You are forgetting one thing Barry. If the objects were being
>>boosted along by 200mph winds at 12,000 feet [very unlikely as
>>the jet stream is up in the  approx.28,0000-32,000 foot level]
>>then the aircraft would be boosted along as well, meaning both
>>the aircraft and the objects would both be in the same moving
>>body of air. In any event, balloons are out of the question.

>I am not at all saying the objects are balloons. i.e. the
>helium filled weather balloon type. These of cause, would not
>show up on infrared as the Mexico objects do.

>What I am suggesting is, that the objects are showing to be very
>hot, hence the footage as seen.

Hi Don,

We have to be careful about characterizing the temperatures as
_very_ hot. As Bruce Maccabee has pointed out in another post,
FLIR is not a radiometer and is designed to enhance and
intensify images via their heat signatures. It will be difficult
to determine the range of temperatures of these objects via FLIR
alone.


Terry Groff

Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas
from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and
refracted the light from Venus" - Agent "K"







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

             Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:54:09 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:28:15 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Bourdais


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:26:47 -0300
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:08:40 -0700
>>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

><snip>

>>I'm sorry to have to be one of those raising the spectre of
>>Maussan's past tribulations, and I admire your gallant defense
>>of him, but I think it's important to at least be aware of all
>>the possibilities. The last thing I want to have happen is for
>>(what's left of) scientific ufology to rally around this one big
>>case, the most talked-about in recent memory, and declare it "a
>>true unknown" only to have someone yell "Surprise!" With this
>>much visibility, it could set us back _decades_ - and we're
>>already decades behind where we should be!

>>Bottom line: keep your fingers crossed, but don't mortgage the
>>house yet.

>Certainly those so called scientists who have demonstrated their
>total lack of objectivity with such idiotic suggestions (without
>a shred of evidence) that it was ball lightning, meteorites, or
>space debris, or gaseous phenomena, or atmospheric sparks
>(lasting 30+ minutes, no less) have demonstrated their lack of
>objectivity and make the choice of  Jaime seem reasonable. He at
>least put the data out there so that people really knowledgeable
>about UFOs and science (professionals like Bruce) could examine
>the data. The clowns ignored all the data.

To Stan and all,

For the moment, the scientists ignoring the data are the ones
with 'egg on their face'. Now, if it is a bad joke of the
military who keep for later a "mundane" explanation, they will
be the first to loose all credibility when they reveal it. It
does not make sense.

A more plausible explanation is that they are aware of the
reality of UFOs and that the scientific world is still hostile
to it. So they decided to pass the document to a mediatic
ufologist, just to make sure that it would not end in a drawer.

BTW, something sad is just happening in France.
Jean-Jacques Velasco, the engineer in charge of UFOs at
CNES/SEPRA, has published a book recently, affirming
the reality of UFOs, and their probable extraterrestrial origin.
Clearly, he was taking a risk.

Well, it has just been announced that he was fired, and that it
is the end of SEPRA. End of a "French exception"! The French
noisy negativists have finally won, with the help of some noisy
conspirationists who accused him of hiding UFOs and being
incompetent.

This sad turn comes when several books, positive on UFOs, have
been published recently: my book on Roswell, Roswell: Inquiries,
Secrecy And Disinformation, a book on by Fran=E7ois Parmentier,
"UFOs: 60 Years Of Disinformation and a book by former Air France
Pilot Jean-Gabriel Gresls, Forbidden Documents.

So, there is a sort of battle going on here. For the moment, the
big medias stick to their policy of silence. But, who knows,
maybe the mammoth is going to move its tail a bit?


Gildas Bourdais







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

              Re: Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:00:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:29:25 -0400
Subject: Re:  Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand? -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:38:23 EDT
>Subject: Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand?

>It's so funny to follow this story and it's aftermath.

>All of us who've been in Ufology for decades saw it coming and
>hopefully are enjoying the formulaic responses from debunkers.

>The path of degradation is text book.

>First comes the weather balloon, meteors, ball lightning excuses
>and then when the old standards don't work comes the 'character
>assassination' attempts.

A not-so-instant replay of the then-world-famous New Zealand
sightings of 25 years ago.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

              Re: Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand? -

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:01:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:11:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:00:32 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:38:23 EDT
>>Subject: Mexican UFOs And The Debunker's Last Stand?

>>It's so funny to follow this story and it's aftermath.

>>All of us who've been in Ufology for decades saw it coming and
>>hopefully are enjoying the formulaic responses from debunkers.

>>The path of degradation is text book.

>>First comes the weather balloon, meteors, ball lightning excuses
>>and then when the old standards don't work comes the 'character
>>assassination' attempts.

>A not-so-instant replay of the then-world-famous New Zealand
>sightings of 25 years ago.

Aye Aye Doc!

It'd be best for us all to go back and look at that incident to
learn from history.

Skepticism is healthy but when it turns into character
assassination then it's evident what the real intention and
motivation is.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

               Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:12:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:13:13 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Boone


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:54:09 +0200
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:26:47 -0300
>>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:08:40 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>><snip>

>>>I'm sorry to have to be one of those raising the spectre of
>>>Maussan's past tribulations, and I admire your gallant defense
>>>of him, but I think it's important to at least be aware of all
>>>the possibilities. The last thing I want to have happen is for
>>>(what's left of) scientific ufology to rally around this one big
>>>case, the most talked-about in recent memory, and declare it "a
>>>true unknown" only to have someone yell "Surprise!" With this
>>>much visibility, it could set us back _decades_ - and we're
>>>already decades behind where we should be!

>>>Bottom line: keep your fingers crossed, but don't mortgage the
>>>house yet.

>>Certainly those so called scientists who have demonstrated their
>>total lack of objectivity with such idiotic suggestions (without
>>a shred of evidence) that it was ball lightning, meteorites, or
>>space debris, or gaseous phenomena, or atmospheric sparks
>>(lasting 30+ minutes, no less) have demonstrated their lack of
>>objectivity and make the choice of  Jaime seem reasonable. He at
>>least put the data out there so that people really knowledgeable
>>about UFOs and science (professionals like Bruce) could examine
>>the data. The clowns ignored all the data.

>To Stan and all,

>For the moment, the scientists ignoring the data are the ones
>with 'egg on their face'. Now, if it is a bad joke of the
>military who keep for later a "mundane" explanation, they will
>be the first to loose all credibility when they reveal it. It
>does not make sense.

>A more plausible explanation is that they are aware of the
>reality of UFOs and that the scientific world is still hostile
>to it. So they decided to pass the document to a mediatic
>ufologist, just to make sure that it would not end in a drawer.

>BTW, something sad is just happening in France.
>Jean-Jacques Velasco, the engineer in charge of UFOs at
>CNES/SEPRA, has published a book recently, affirming
>the reality of UFOs, and their probable extraterrestrial origin.
>Clearly, he was taking a risk.

>Well, it has just been announced that he was fired, and that it
>is the end of SEPRA. End of a "French exception"! The French
>noisy negativists have finally won, with the help of some noisy
>conspirationists who accused him of hiding UFOs and being
>incompetent.

>This sad turn comes when several books, positive on UFOs, have
>been published recently: my book on Roswell, Roswell: Inquiries,
>Secrecy And Disinformation, a book on by Fran=E7ois Parmentier,
>"UFOs: 60 Years Of Disinformation and a book by former Air France
>Pilot Jean-Gabriel Gresls, Forbidden Documents.

>So, there is a sort of battle going on here. For the  moment, the
>big medias stick to their policy of silence. But, who knows,
>maybe the mammoth is going to move its tail a bit?


That's scary news Gildas!

Considering the French Government of late and some of their
hateful tactics I can understand why he got attacked.

Same tactics were and still are used here in the U.S. against
witnesses and whistleblowers regarding UFOs.

It's something I've been researching over the past months and
what I'm finding is a scandal of such proportions it could shut
down the U.S. Using mental institution incarceration against
those who buck the system and go against the grain of the crowd.
It's like sanity is being defined as going along with the status
quo. Yet this is a country bolstered by acts of individualism.

Ironic eh?

That's the biggest battle in ufology. Helping those people
who've come forward and gotten attacked and using the tools
necessary to squash character assassinations and mental
institution abuse. I'm lucky as I've got an army of lawyers who
are now aware of the problem and they can't figure out how it
got past the bulk of the legal community but it's because so
many people including pension funds have their investments in
pharmaceutical companies and the drugs and tactics they use.

Procedurally it's a nightmare here in the U.S. as there are laws
that state that you can be forced to take psychiatric treatment
and forced to take pharmaceuticals even if it's against your
will and they can do it to your kids without your consent!
There's a big fight in NY about this in my hometown as they
tried this on a kid I know and his parents and family ain't
about to tolerate it.

Just think what happens to researchers, witnesses,
whistleblowers and abductees! It's horrendous! No wonder people
won't come forward and won't take a stand so I can imagine how
horrid it is in France.

These are the biggest tools the debunker terrorists are using.
Ridicule, Character Assassination and threat of mental
institution incarceration for not agreeing with the status quo.

The reports and stories I've been reading could break your
heart. People's lives ruined from just telling the truth.
Honorable citizens at that!

So that's why I attack the attackers because I know their
tactics and can tear them a new one at a glance.

Let em' bring it on. We'll be waiting.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

               Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:14:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:14:21 -0400
Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question - Boone


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:26:47 -0300
>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:08:40 -0700
>>Subject: Re: SEDENA And The Mexican UFO Question
>
><snip>

>>I'm sorry to have to be one of those raising the spectre of
>>Maussan's past tribulations, and I admire your gallant defense
>>of him, but I think it's important to at least be aware of all
>>the possibilities. The last thing I want to have happen is for
>>(what's left of) scientific ufology to rally around this one big
>>case, the most talked-about in recent memory, and declare it "a
>>true unknown" only to have someone yell "Surprise!" With this
>>much visibility, it could set us back _decades_ - and we're
>>already decades behind where we should be!

>>Bottom line: keep your fingers crossed, but don't mortgage the
>>house yet.

>Certainly those so called scientists who have demonstrated their
>total lack of objectivity with such idiotic suggestions (without
>a shred of evidence) that it was ball lightning, meteorites, or
>space debris, or gaseous phenomena, or atmospheric sparks
>(lasting 30+ minutes, no less) have demonstrated their lack of
>objectivity and make the choice of  Jaime seem reasonable. He at
>least put the data out there so that people really knowledgeable
>about UFOs and science (professionals like Bruce) could  examine
>the data. The clowns ignored all the data.


Thank you Mr. Friedman!

Another thing that gets me sore is how every country on the
planet is handling UFO incidents. Is it me or do they all
respond the same when these incidents arise?

Are they all following some guideline to debunk and attack and
divert? Not all the countries have the security procedures the
U.S. and the U.K. have so what's the fear here coming from for
these scientists to come up with these reactions we know to be
knuckleheaded?

Who's schooling whom?

What do they have to fear? I recall at one of your lectures you
mentioned something regarding a collapse of nationalism if the
truth were known. That sounds logical a reason to me for their
actions.

I don't think the public is buying the nonsense the Mexican
scientists are pushing and are going with Jaime Maussan's
presented evidence. That evidence is making a joke out of our
own press establishments and that's what they fear. It's what
you scientists do with this new data that'll save the day in the
long run.

We'll be waiting for the debunkers. We've got a suprise for em'.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                  Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Conte

From: Carrie Conte <cconte1.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:01:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:17:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Conte


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul><roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:40:33 +0100
>Subject: Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure?


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:40:56 +0100
>Subject: Anthony Woods - The Closure?

>Please click on the link below, and I would ask if anyone has
>any comments on this case?

>http://rense.com/general45/woodsnew1.htm


>List,

>Is ufology this dead?

>Not one comment on someone filming UFOs and then drops it like
>a ton of bricks?

Roy

Although I am new here and not as experienced as most folks are
on this List, I just would like to ask this:

Do you suppose he was intimidated or threatened somehow and this
is why he is walking away from it and all ufology? Many folks
throughout history have been threatened and told to back-off
mostly by MIB's or other official looking men. Just wondering if
this might be the case with Anthony Woods. Maybe he was on to
something big... like I said just a newbie here on the List.


Carrie Conte









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                  Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:25:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:19:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure? - Hatch


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul><roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:40:33 +0100
>Subject: Re: Anthony Woods - The Closure?

>>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:40:56 +0100
>>Subject: Anthony Woods - The Closure?

>>Please click on the link below, and I would ask if anyone has
>>any comments on this case?

>>http://rense.com/general45/woodsnew1.htm


>List,

>Is ufology this dead?

>Not one comment on someone filming UFOs and then drops it like
>a ton of bricks?


Hello Roy:

I commented yesterday, maybe 20 hours ago. Some messages take
longer to get through.

- Larry







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                    The Venus Transit - Two Weeks to Go!

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:35:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:21:03 -0400
Subject: The Venus Transit - Two Weeks to Go!


From: esonews.nul
Subject: The Venus Transit - Two Weeks to Go!
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:43:36 +0200

Dear Subscribers,

The international Venus Transit-2004 public educational
programme is  entering thefinal phase and many public events are
being announced by the  VT-2004 National Nodes and Network
Members. This communication includes  news about the Venus
Occultation by the Moon on May 21, a Guide to Enjoy  the
Transit, a new TV Film, Activities at the VT-2004 National
Nodes, the  VT-2004 Observing Campaign and a comprehensive CD-
ROM with more than  10,000 fascimile pages of related historical
documents and images.

The full text of VT-2004 Press Communication 04 (May 21, 2004),
with one  photo and all weblinks, is available at:

http://www.vt-2004.org/Media/vt-comm-04.html

Kind regards,

The ESO EPR Dept.


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                           The 'Twins' Giant UFOs?

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:16:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:22:34 -0400
Subject: The 'Twins' Giant UFOs?


Hi All,

The 'giant' UFO mentioned in Jaime Maussan's report is none other
than the large, bright 'pair' of UFOs that Bruce Maccabee has already
christened, 'The Twins'. The 'Twins' make their first appearance on
the FLIR recording at time marker: 17:03:37

Jaime Maussan informs me that these objects are the ones that
were referred to as being "15 stories tall." We will all just have
to wait for Bruce Maccabee's analysis before we will know anything
about the size of these objects.  If they turn out to be anywhere
near as large as the crew estimated them to be, then maybe we
all ought to, -as one crew member admonishes the rest when they
discover that the airplane is surrounded by the UFOs they have
been tracking... "Youngsters, fasten your seat belts!"

The audio portion of the FLIR recording is a treasure trove of
information. All the while the encounter is going on, the crew
members are calling out readings on speed, distance, headings,
current positions of the UFOs in relation to the airplane etc.

One such 'gold nugget' that has already been mined is; the
verbal corroboration by the crew that several times during
the encounter, some, not all, of the UFOs were being targeted
_simultaneously_ by both the FLIR camera _and_ the radar.
This is a significant bit of information.

Santiago Yturria is working on a word by word translation of
this audio recording which will take him time to execute. It will
be great when we have a complete chronological translation of
all the information that is contained in that recording. More than
that, an event has been recorded where the participants reveal
their basic humanity and human response to a confrontation with
something of a genuinely 'unknown' nature.

The audio portion of the recording is a lesson in how humans can
respond to an 'unknown' and great mini-study for students of
psychology. At one point in the recording, you can hear both the
excitement and the trepidation in the voices of the crew as
several of the objects surrounded the airplane. At other times
mention is made of 'maneuvers' that are being executed by the
objects under observation.

example from audio recording: The radar and the FLIR operator
are talking back and forth to each other about a single object
that they are both observing (simultaneously) on their respective
monitors.

Q.  "What's it doing?"

A.  "It's turning."

Q.  "It's what?"

A.  "It's turning!" (with emphasis)

The objects that were recorded by the FLIR also appeared to fly
'in formation.' They maintain equal speed and distance among
them as they fly past the seeing eye of the FLIR camera. Again,
we need to wait for Bruce's report for a 'confirm or deny.'

I must say though, bar none, this military infra-red recording
is one of the most truly compelling pieces of evidence of UFOs
that has ever been presented. Easily, this case has already had
much more impact than even the release of information by the
Belgian military back in the 90's.

Re: The General

Whatever his reasons for doing it... Long live General Ricardo
Clemente Vega Garcia. I have a feeling his name will get into
the history books for reasons other than his military
accomplishments.  ;)


Regards,

John Velez










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

              Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:13:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:25:34 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:40:00 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:38:17 +0100
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:14:45 +0100
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:31:11 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

><snip>

>>>>I don't want to open up another discussion of the Roswell matter
>>>>by any means. But, if there is any seismic record of the Roswell
>>>>event, wouldn't that nail down the date and time of the supposed
>>>>crash?

>>>Third - the "rational explanation" for the Berwyn mountains
>>>event (most recently from the BBC) blatantly ignores most of the
>>>evidence - the build-up of sightings over some months ceasing
>>>that night, the so-called `meteors' flying cross-country headed
>>>for the Berwyns that night, and the `co-incidental' earthquake
>>>that night.

>>In relation to the Berwyn Mountain incident, I couldn't have put
>>these points better myself.

>>You mentioned the BBC and a recent contribution from them, Could
>>you let me know what this is?

>Hello Stuart,

>Yup, although not very recent, but I'm still angry about BBC
>producers' omission of factual evidence and reports - then their
>arrogant dismissal of (near unanimous?) criticism - then their
>refusal to appear on the "Feedback" program where that criticism
>could have been answered.

>These messages bracketed the "Feedback" prog of Fri 7 Nov '03

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m04-017.shtml
>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m07-006.shtml
>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m07-013.shtml
>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m09-015.shtml
>It's quoted hurriedly in third & at more length in fourth.

>Maybe you could get tape or transcript of program from
>feedback.nul

>You can see mails I responded to, in the Nov archive.

>Am still b***** angry at what was, effectively, a cover-up, but
>now expect ignorance from domestic BBC. [Not World Service, which
>can be a different animal]

>[W.S broadcast my nat. hist. account of 'African' porcupines
>living near me (along w/occasional wolves), in mountains of S.
>Italy a few years ago - blinkered domestic BBC would've probably
>shouted "Gedaway! - Never happen!"]


Ray

As soon as I followed the first link and saw my name as one of
the respondents, I remembered the programme only too clearly. I
had hoped you were referring to some new piece of the work they
had produced.

Well, as I remember Roberts writing somewhere, although he
didn't use these exact words, the producers had made their mind
up before they even began to make the programme and suceeded in
making a complete mockery of the whole thing.

In particular, they gave ample space to our dear friend Margaret
Fry who, to put it delicately, is now past her best and is more
a hindrance than a help.

Did you know that some of the aliens that landed that evening
were in the pub and the local Spa supermarket later on? Nice
guys, they bought their rounds and then went to the chippie
after for a fish supper. I believe they couldn't work out how to
use the vinegar.

The progarmme focussed on the eccentrics and the wild claims.
I'm afraid, Ray, that when one is faced with that kind of
concerted debunking, there's not much you can do. They probably
viewed your complaints as just another UFO nutter sounding off.

Of equal concern is the fact that a case of, superficially at
least, equal dimensions to Rhendlesham should have been so
shamefully ignored by British researchers, that the only serious
piece of published research has been done by a sceptic.

Ah, now hold on, wait a mo. I have heard of another researcher,
who I shall not name, who has allegedly been sitting on a pile
of material about this case for some time.

I say "allegedly" because he won't release it. Nope, wants to
keep it to himself. And perhaps its understandable because what
little that he has allowed to leak out makes for, shall we say,
considered thought.

Apparently, and this is third hand, the authorities that night
were expecting an attack. From aliens. And what a magnificent
trophy Berwyn Mountain would have made to show the folks back
home, wherever that might be.

We're in a bit of a sad state over here at the moment.


Stuart








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

               Re: 05-19-04 BC Case Becomes Bigger - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:43:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:40:25 -0400
Subject: Re: 05-19-04 BC Case Becomes Bigger - Stanford


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:21:48 -0700
>Subject: 05-19-04 BC Case Becomes Bigger


>It appears that I have another major case which is still coming
>together. I reported a sighting on May 19, 2004 out of Trail,
>British Columbia. Well that was not the only thing witnessed
>that evening.

>What makes this such an interesting case is that Trail had a
>very bad storm that evening and one half of Trail was without
>power.

>Another witness said they saw what appeared to be a funnel cloud
>and when it disappeared she saw a strange craft.

>Things even got stranger, when the weather took a turn for the
>worse. At the Golf Club the folks who were playing were whisked
>into the Club House and there they watched the clock moving
>backwards.

>Other objects were witnessed that evening also.

>The witnesses who reported these objects are very prominent
>members of the community.

>Lots to come on this case.....

Brian, et al,

Let us proceed discreetly, because "craft" if a pretty loaded
word in the context used. Did the witness really report anything
about the thing she allegedly saw that would clearly indicate it
was a "craft", per se, or was she really just reporting an
ambiguous object, or even a bright ambiguous light source?

I stress this because you said that the witness reported seeing
a funnel cloud (not so strange with a storm in the area), and
that she said the "strange craft" (according to your words)
appeared, "when it [the funnel cloud] disappeared". Therefore, I
am wondering about the temporal relationship between the
disappearance or dissipation of the funnel cloud and the
appearance of the "strange craft". Did the funnel dissipate or
lift back up into a cloud making the object visible, or what?

You see, over the last several decades, tornado researchers have
accumulated some fascinating accounts of things seen by
witnesses whose cellar doors or even homes were lifted up when
funnel clouds were passing over, revealing to them the INSIDE of
the tornado funnel. Reports describe the open tube within as
seemingly highly electrified, with BALLS OF LIGHT (seeming
plasma balls) reeling around inside!

In absence of any report of the observed object's shape or
behavior, one might, therefore, be justified in asking whether
the witness might have merely seen a ball or glob of plasma
enduring after the funnel, per se, had dissipated.

Whether or not that was the case in the event under discussion,
let me propose an entirely prosaic possible (even probable, I
suspect) explanation for the fact that those in the Club House
saw the clock RUNNING BACKWARD. Many times a certain clock of
mine has started running backward during thunder storms --
 immediately after there has been a electrical power glitch and
power return, regardless of the duration of the outage (whether
only a fraction of a second or much longer), just like the one
in the Club House reportedly did.

Was a mysterious UFO with backward-flowing time hidden in the
storm? :) Heck no! Here's the explanation: Some types of clocks
are vulnerable to starting to run backward if the 60-cycle (or
whatever the local alternating current frequency) electricity
resumes and reaches that clock in the wrong cycle phase of the,
e.g., 60-hertz pulse. Unplugging and re-plugging the backward
clock and finding it still going backward is no evidence that
anything really anomalous (like alleged backward-flowing time
from a UFO) is happening, because one can happen to plug that
clock back in on the wrong alternating current phase just as
easily as happened before. Often, it has taken me several tries
to get the clock to run forward.

So, now, Brian, it is up to you to find out whether, as I
suspect, the clock in the club house runs on alternating
current. I predict that you will learn that to be the case. If,
on the other hand, the clock is battery powered, my proposed
explanation is not tenable.

If you cannot get to the club house, yourself, to check what
kind of power that clock uses, be careful and DO NOT SHARE MY
HYPOTHESIS with anyone checking that out for you. Just insist on
learning about the power supply of the clock, offering no
explanation for wanting to know. Please do a little objective
investigation here and report back.

We should note that backward running can happen any time one
plugs in a vulnerable clock, not just during a thunder storm or
when an alleged UFO or ball lightening, or whatever, happens to
be in the area.

I simply offer the above words of caution and warn that in
UFOlogy (as in most of life), all that seems to glitter is not
gold. And things that at first glance may seem highly anomalous
may in really be of a very prosaic origin.

Ufologically, discretion is the better part of valor.

But thanks for sharing, Brian.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 24

                     Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:54:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:41:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Rimmer


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:29:21 -0500
>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:42:31 +0100
>>Subject: Magonia Supplement 50

>>This is the 50th Magonia Supplement, and is a special issue
>>featuring the case of:

>>The Downfall Of Corporal Valdes

>>by Diego Zuniga, the editor in chief of the Chilean ufological
>>bulletin La Nave de los Locos :

>>http://www.lanavedeloslocos.cl

>>Eight soldiers in the north of Chile see two small lights. The
>>corporal in charge of the group disappears, to later return
>>speaking incoherent words. This is the plot of the Valdes
>>Case.

><snip>

>>Read the full account at:

>>http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms50.htm

>...Hang on, Mr. Rimmer, though I suspect you're too smart a man
>to fail to perceive that reality slipping away from you - feel
>it crawling beneath the fingers of a weakening hand.

I'm afraid that I'm not so smart a man that I've got the
faintest idea what you're going on about.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

                         Cosmos Size God ET & Humans

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:05:37 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 04:45:28 -0400
Subject: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans


Extract from:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040524.html

Senior Science Writer of Space.com

24 May 2004

Universe Measured: We're 156 Billion Light-years Wide!

By Robert Roy Britt


If you've ever wondered how big the universe is, you're not
alone. Astronomers have long pondered this, too, and they've had
a hard time figuring it out. Now an estimate has been made, and
it�s a whopper. The universe is at least 156 billion light-years
wide.

In the new study, researchers examined primordial radiation
imprinted on the cosmos. Among their conclusions is that it is
less likely that there is some crazy cosmic "hall of mirrors"
that would cause one object to be visible in two locations. And
they've ruled out the idea that we could peer deep into space
and time and see our own planet in its youth.

First, let's see why the size is a number you've never heard of
before.

Stretching reality

The universe is about 13.7 billion years old. Light reaching us
from the earliest known galaxies has been travelling, therefore,
for more than 13 billion years. So one might assume that the
radius of the universe is 13.7 billion light-years and that the
whole shebang is double that, or 27.4 billion light-years wide.

But the universe has been expanding ever since the beginning
of time, when theorists believe it all sprang forth from an
infinitely dense point in a Big Bang.

"All the distance covered by the light in the early universe
gets increased by the expansion of the universe," explains
Neil Cornish, an astrophysicist at Montana State University.
"Think of it like compound interest." Need a visual? Imagine
the universe just a million years after it was born, Cornish
suggests. A batch of light travels for a year, covering one
light-year. "At that time, the universe was about 1,000 times
smaller than it is today," he said. "Thus, that one light-year
has now stretched to become 1,000 light-years."

All the pieces add up to 78 billion-light-years. The light has
not traveled that far, but "the starting point of a photon
reaching us today after travelling for 13.7 billion years is now
78 billion light-years away," Cornish said. That would be the
radius of the universe, and twice that - 156 billion light-
 years  is the diameter.

That's based on a view going 90 percent of the way back in time,
so it might be slightly larger. "It can be thought of as a
spherical diameter is the usual sense," Cornish added
comfortingly.

More explanations at the URL above.

-----

Hello Listers

An article which makes one feel real small and insignificant, in
Cosmological terms, above. So small to be of no significance and
no meaning whatever bearing in mind the comparison of a person's
size with 156 Billion Light-years. After reading the article
feelings of God being outside the Universe actually creating it
as an experiment and sending probes ( UFO's ) into it to take a
see at what is going on sprang to mind verified, tongue in
cheek, by at least some ET abduction accounts including maybe my
own?

Why does ET bother with planet Earth and Humans when they must
know that it is so insignificant too in Cosmological terms?

Is Earth and are we Humans unique enough to attract study or
observation by ET and maybe God bearing in mind they must know
we are insignificant in Universal terms?

The answer can only be a resounding Yes!


Kind regards,

Colin Stevenson

PS. Enjoyed the information on the Mexican UFO wave and how
Listers raised their posts around the 'Stadium' of UFO UpDates
:-) Could they really be ADB opps (above dark black) craft based
on some unverified video footage from the past of activity above
'The Ranch' etc?





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

                   Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Page

From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:38:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:50:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Page


>From: Greg Boone Evolbaby.nul
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:05:31 EDT
>Subject: Project UFO The Old TV Show

>I remember this show as a kid. It was produced by Jack Webb. It
>was very 'matter of fact' and I vaguely recall some of the
>episodes.

>http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/EpisodeGuideServlet/showid-9331/ Project_U
FO/

>I found a fan page to the old tv show "Project UFO" that details
>more about the show and it's 26 episode run.

>Worth a glance!

>http://www.glowingdial.com/p_ufo.htm


Funny you should mention it, I do remember this show as a kid
too and  was wondering what the name was.....

Now I know. Ah the memories, I think we need something like this
again.


Trev








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

                 Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Straight

From: Brian Straight <briansxx.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 06:47:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:51:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Straight


Greg Boone wrote:

>I remember this show as a kid. It was produced by Jack Webb. It
>was very 'matter of fact' and I vaguely recall some of the
>episodes.

<snip>

The series is now available in a DVD boxed set. I've seen it in
Borders, but I have not priced it.


Brian








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

                            'UFO' Mystery Solved

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 05:42:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:57:52 -0400
Subject: 'UFO' Mystery Solved


Source: inSourced

http://www.in-sourced.com/article/articleview/1803/1/13/

05-25-4


UFO Mystery Solved

A group of teenagers bought the gadget from the catalogue store
Argos on Sunday.

When filled with air, the black plastic Solar Airship toy
becomes an eight-metre cigar-shaped balloon.

The sun's rays heat it up and the hot air inside the balloon
causes it to rise.

Normally, users can hold on to the balloon with string but when
the students from Varndean School took the reins, the string
snapped.

Tom Collins, 16, of Fiveways, Brighton, said: "We just took it
to the field near the school to play with it.

"We let it go but the string broke and it went out over the golf
course and was then just swept off into the distance. Then we
saw in The Argus that someone thought it was a UFO."

Mark Fulton, 16, of Hollingbury, said: "I thought it was really
funny someone thought it was a UFO."

Mr Losh, of Woodbourne Avenue, filmed the object with his video
camera as it soared above Hollingbury on Tuesday.

It appeared to be the second UFO sighting in Brighton in two
months after a glowing globe was seen near Shoreham Airport last
month.

Mr Losh, 32, said: "One of the reasons for calling The Argus was
to try to find out what it was.

"You could say I'm a bit disappointed it was not a UFO but it
has brightened up everyone's lives and that's the main thing."

Meanwhile, the Solar Airship, made by Wow Stuff Ltd, has
continued its tour around Brighton and Hove.

Tennis coach Mel Bowden, 53, of Kemp Town, spotted the object
floating above Badgers Tennis Club in Church Place on Wednesday
- three days after it was launched.

He said: "It appeared to be about 1,000ft above the ground. A
lot of us saw it and I had to stop my lesson."

Janet Goin, health and safety officer at Varndean School, said:
"One of the teachers saw the article and let us know.

"People have found it very funny."

Head of science Jon Lamb said: "It's great to see our students
taking hands-on science experiments and discoveries into their
leisure time."

Robin Williams, an air traffic controller at Shoreham Airport,
said: "We had reports about it two or three days ago with people
phoning in.

"We didn't have any pilots spotting it because it was too low.

"But we reported in to air traffic control in Swanwick, near
Southampton, who control all the airspace in this area."

Courtesy of www.thisisbrightonandhove.co.uk








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

             Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:14:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:04:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Warren


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:02:19 -0400
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:01:42 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

<snip>

>BTW, these guys had to be armed to the teeth. Any mention of
>weaponry on board the airplane? If so, what kind of weapons? If
>I'm not mistaken, these drug interdiction planes are prepared to
>force the bad-guys down on the deck if they have to.

>The data _is_ there. It _has_to_be.

Good Day John, Bruce, et al,

John, although asking for any additional records, ground
support, radar, etc., will of course answer the question if any
exists, I don't think it's sagacious to 'assume' anything in
regard to this investigation, or for that matter any
investigation. Our nemeses (debunkers, naysayers, pelicanists
etc.) 'assume'  that there is a plausible explanation for UFOs,
so knee-jerk explications are published in mainstream media
without proper scientific protocol.

The Mexicans observed and recorded the phenomena, and for those
of us that partake in any post investigation or research, it is
necessary for us to follow said protocol, and draw theorem from
the known facts as to ascertain just what was witnessed.

Separately, in Santiago Yturria's initial report he said:


"This airplane is programmed only for surveillance and detection
procedures, not for interception or combat maneuvres. Their duty
s to detect and identify drug dealers flights and then
immediately report them to the base where combat planes are
scrambled to intercept those narcotics smugglers."


This statement seems to negate any 'offensive' weapons, however;
this still needs to be verified.

I think the question that arises is, "were any planes
'scrambled' in defense of the Merlin when it became the
pursuee?"


Respectfully,

Frank Warren








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 21

From: John Hayes <John.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:02:11 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:07:25 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 21


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

   UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 21
May 26, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/rounup/


SAUCER LANDS IN CUBA

   On Saturday, May 8, 2004, at 10 a.m., a silver UFO
landed in a farmyard in Boyeros, a suburb southeast of
Havana, the capital of Cuba.
   "In the surroundings of EXPOCUBA, a farmyard located
in the capital city municipality of Boyeros, several
persons claimed having witnessed the presence of a UFO,
according to an article appearing in the local press."
   "According to the newspaper Juventud Rebelde,
residents of the site witnessed the descent of an alleged
UFO (unidentified flying object) on Saturday, May 8,
without the claim being scientifically substantiated."
   "Witnesses claim that around 10 a.m., a small, oval-
shaped vessel, silver-colored and with a metallic tail,
landed in an open field surrounded by trees on the El
Pedregal farm, located in the surroundings of EXPOCUBA,
southeast of the city of Havana."
   "'I was tidying the shelves when a bright light came
through the window. It was like a glowing ball with a tail
in its lower section. I showed it to my mother quickly
and ran outside to see where it would fall,' said Raul
Beltran, 17, who claims having been at the site until the
UFO took off once more."
   "'It lifted off rather perpendicularly and then left
through the palm trees. It didn't make any noise nor
issue any smoke. The only thing I'm sure of is its size;
more or less the size of a pickup truck tire or
thereabouts.'"
   "'When my son showed it to me, I thought it was a
kite or a parachute, since skydivers drop over EXPOCUBA
every so often! After, as it came down, I realized that
it could be nothing of the sort, since it was smaller and
glowed a lot. It looked like a mirror,' said Odalis, Raul
Beltran's mother."
   "Remigio Sanchez, who works as a warehouseman at a
school not far from where the incident occurred, claims
having seen a light in the sky about the same time as the
other spectators. 'It was a powerful glow in the sky, but
it was far away so I thought it was a flame. When I got
to Odalis' home--Raul's mom--she told me that a device had
landed nearby.'"
   "According to the witness, and a Juventud Rebelde
team who visited the site, the grass and small plants at
the site where the UFO landed were somewhat burned,
although it is true that the current drought at the site
is causing similar things to happen at other nearby
locations."
   "It has not been possible to scientifically confirm
the presence of any UFO anywhere in the world. It is true
that many people claim having seen one object or another,
but, strangely enough, in none of these cases is any
material evidence left behind that could prove the
existence of strange bodies on our planet."
(Editor's Comment: Oh, no? What about the weird metallic
fragments recovered at the site of the UFO explosion in
Ubatuba, Brazil in 1962?)
   "According to Oscar Alvarez Pomares, a specialist in
the Science Office of the (Cuban) Ministry of Science,
Technology and the Environment, 'People want to believe
that other beings exist in the universe, although I am not
saying that what the participants of the episode saw was
untrue.'"
   "According to the scientist, there is an Institute
for the Search of Extraterrestrial Life in the United
States, although none of its specialists have been able to
ascertain the presence of UFOs on Earth, despite having
studied several cases in which strange vehicles have
landed, according to public testimony." (See Prensa
Latina for May 18, 2004, "Havana residents claim having
seen UFO." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Cristian
Quintero de Planeta UFO para esto articulo de diarios.)
(Editor's Comment: And welcome to UFOs of the Caribbean
Week here at UFO Roundup. Last week the Caribbean region
underwent an upsurge in UFO events. Read on.)


UFO CRASHES IN
VENEZUELA

   "An unidentified flying object crashed last Saturday,
May 15, 2004, in the vicinity of the Raul Leoni
Hydroelectric Station," located in a remote jungle region
of southeastern Venezuela.
   The hydroelectric station is at Guri Dam, at the
north end of the man-made Lago de Guri. The dam in on the
Rio Caroni, 100 kilometers (60 miles) south of the Rio
Orinoco at Ciudad Bolivar.
   "The accident, which occurred during the early hours
of last Saturday, was witnessed by workers at the dam and
took place to the northwest of that location. Stringent
security measures were immediately undertaken by" soldiers
of Venezuela's Guardia Nacional, "who proceeded to cordon
off the area."
   Further north, in Puerto Ordaz, residents saw low-
flying black helicopters cross the overcast sky, heading
south towards the dam. "The presence of U.S. personnel
was also observed, a common feature in all (South
American) crashes involving UFOs."
   "It must be noted that the Seismology Unit" at the
university in Caracas, Venezuela's capital, "reported
movement at the time of the crash, a detail reminiscent of
the Roswell, New Mexico incident of (July) 1947."
   "With regard to an alien presence, no reports have
been received at this time."
   "Access to the crash site has been highly complicated
due to the torrential rains at the site during this time
of year. (It's the rainy season in Venezuela--J.T.)"
   "However, accredited personnel of Proyecto Orion went
to the site on" Wednesday, May 19, 2004 "to investigate
the reported crash and to collect eyewitness testimony."
(Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Cristian Quintero de
Planeta UFO para esto informe.)


WHITE UFO PHOTOGRAPHED
IN UBATE, COLOMBIA

   "David Lopez, in spite of his long experience as a
photographer, was never able to take a shot of the (Roman
Catholic) Basilica Menor" of Ubate, a city in Colombia, "a
municipality in which he has lived for 25 years."
   Lopez wanted to capture an image of the cathedral's
dome framed by a colorful rainbow. "It would make a
lovely postcard, he thought."
   On Monday, April 26, 2004, "as though a gift from
above, the multihued rainbow appeared over the church. It
was Monday and the time was 5 p.m."
   "Armed with a digital camera, placed over a heavy
jacket, Lopez headed towards the city's central plaza and
fired about 3 or 4 shots with flash, without sighting
anything unusual occurring, until he ran into his friend,
Jaime Jaramillo, who said, 'I'll buy one later on.'"
   "The surprise came afterward. When David opened the
image file in his computer, a small white dot" appeared in
the scene, "just to the left of the rainbow, and then
appearing on the right."
   "The dot, as he opened one file after another,
acquired red and violet hues."
   "'When I took the photos, I never saw anything like
that. They were simply there on my computer screen,' he
said excitedly."
   "Lopez, who claims having seen UFOs when he worked as
an air traffic controller at El Dorado" International
Airport, near Bogota, the national capital, "isn't the
only one to speak of UFOs. The fact is that there are
plenty of eyewitness accounts to go around."
   "Sra. Dolores Cruz, a former nurse in the
municipality, claims that a few days after Lopez took the
photo she saw 'something very strange.'"
   "'On the evening of (Monday) May 3 (2004), after I'd
finished praying the rosary on the terrace of my house, I
saw something like a balloon about to collide with the
church steeple. Then it remained still, suspended in mid-
air. It passed over the Telecom tower and accelerated so
much that I was no longer able to see it,' she said."
   "Another eyewitness account came from the town notary
Jorge Castellanos, who also claims having seen 'an oval
shape' crossing the skies. Aliens? Who knows? The fact
is that these towering structures, such as the demolished
Twin Towers (the World Trade Center in New York City--
J.T.), the Egyptian pyramids, the Greek Acropolis of the
Eiffel Tower have always had tales of spaceships prowling
in their vicinity...and thus, Ubate now has its own."
(See the Colombian newspaper El Tiempo for May 20, 2004,
"UFO flies over Ubate; locals claim seeing strange lights
constantly." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria
Coluchi para esto articulo de diario.)


LUMINOUS UFOs SEEN AT
CABO ROJO, PUERTO RICO

   On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, "Mr. Aguirre, a fisherman
and a resident of Cabo Rojo, P.R. reported seeing 'strange
lights' entering and leaving the sea" just offshore from
the southwestern corner of Puerto Rico.
   The luminous UFOs were also "seen over the cliffs
near the famous Cabo Rojo lighthouse at night."
   "And now an investigation by Proyecto Argus revealed
that many residents who have visited the site have
experienced odd sensations and certain types of
'paranormal energy' as though there were something else at
that location."
   The UFO group's on-site investigation "showed
evidence of what could be termed remains of spiritual or
witchcraft trabajos (workings or incantations--S.C.)."
   "What is worth noting out here is that many people
claim having had unusual experiences in the vicinity of
the (Cabo Rojo) lighthouse, giving rise to the belief that
this is an area of intense paranormal activity." (Muchas
gracias a Scott Corrales, Jose Martinez Echevarria y Prof.
Reinaldo Rios para estos informes.)


LUMINOUS UFO SIGHTED AT
CRAWLEY, WEST SUSSEX

   On Wednesday, May 19, 2004, at around 11 p.m., Leigh
Harrison and her friend, Jo, were walking around the
millpond at Bewbush in Crawley, West Sussex, UK when they
spotted something unusual approaching from the east.
   "I was walking my friend Jo home near the millpond,"
Leigh reported, "As it is quite dark, no street lamps.
Out of the corner of my eye, I caught a light. As I
looked around, I saw a perfect circle of light going fast
across the sky."
   "I said to Jo, 'What the f*** is that!?'"
   "'It's a UFO,' Jo replied."
   "'Oh, my God! I've never seen anything like that before.'"
   "Then it changed direction, moving away from us, and
was gone in a second."
   Leigh described the UFO as "a clear, very bright,
white light, circular in shape. There were also two
aircraft in the sky about 5 miles (8 kilometers) away with
red and white flashing (navigational) lights. The object
we saw was nothing like this and definitely not of this
world. It was 500 feet (150 meters) up and half a mile
away, maybe less. I would say that the UFO was as big as
a jumbo (jet), maybe larger. It was fast...a thousand
miles per hour (1,600 kilometers per hour--J.T.), maybe
more." (Email Form Report)


ARIZONA MAN CAPTURES
A UFO ON CAMERA

   On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, Joe Moran was at the
intersection of Interstate Highways I-10 and I-17 in
Phoenix, Arizona, near Encanto Peak and 15th Avenue South,
when he decided to shoot some photos with his Canon A80
digital camera.
   "I was looking west when I took the photos," Joe
reported, "I saw the UFO at 4 p.m. It was three miles (5
kilometers) away or so. I didn't actually see the object-
-my camera caught it. I was alone when I shot the image.
I did not hear any unusual noises at the time. Also,
there was no loss of power in the Canon A80 or in any
other battery-powered devices on my person when I shot the
photo." (Email Interview)


FUSION SCIENTIST MURDERED
IN NORWICH, CONNECTICUT

   "Police are investigating the killing of a New
Hampshire science writer who championed cold fusion."
   "Eugene Mallove, 56, of Pembroke, N.H. died late
Friday night," May 14, 2004, "after being assaulted at a
house owned by his parents" in Norwich, Conn. (population
36,117), "police said. The family rented out the house."
   "Mallove died of injuries to his head and neck, the
Norwich Bulletin reported Sunday. The office of the chief
state medical examiner ruled the death a homicide."
   "Mallove was discovered at the house after police
received a report of an injured person. An initial
investigation indicated a robbery and a fight had taken
place, police said. Several unidentified items were
taken, and Mallove's minivan was missing."
   "His 1993 green Dodge Caravan was found early
Saturday in an employee parking lot at the Foxwoods Resort
Casino in Mashantucket, Conn. Police are looking for
anyone who saw the minivan after 7 p.m. on Friday," May
14, 2004. It had several large bumper stickers on the
back, including one advertising his magazine's Web site:
www.infinite-energy.com."
   "Mallove, who moved from Norwich to Bow, N.H. in 1987
and to Pembroke three years ago (2001) was president of
the Concord, N.H.-based New Energy Institute and editor-
in-chief of the magazine Infinite Energy."
   "The magazine's managing editor, who worked with him
for six years, called Mallove 'the most caring and giving
person I probably have ever known, a very successful,
brilliant man.'"
   "'It's hard not to love the thing he loves because
he's so passionate,' Christy Frazier said, 'He touched the
lives of everybody he came in contact with.'"
   "Mallove, who earned his bachelor's and master's
degrees at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology" in
Cambridge, Mass. "and his Ph.D. from Harvard University,
was chief science writer at the M.I.T. news office until
he left to champion cold fusion. He also taught science
writing at M.I.T. and Boston University."
   "He was the author of several books, including one on
cold fusion that was nominated for the Pulitzer Prize:
Fire and Ice: Searching for the Truth Behind the Cold
Fusion Furor."
   "Mallove believed the infamous Pons and Fleishmann
announcement in 1989 that they created nuclear fusion by
running an electrical current through a jar was not
'voodoo science' but a glimpse into an interesting topic
worth investigating."
   "That belief was partially vindicated earlier this
year when the U.S. Department of Energy ordered a panel of
scientists to review existing research on cold fusion to
see whether it is worth pursuing."
   "'They are now going to do the right thing. It's
over ten years late, no doubt about that (and) should have
been reviewed a long time ago...but there is a
breakthrough,' Mallove said in a recent interview with The
Telegraph of Nashua, N.H."
   "'There is a large body of positive evidence' for
low-energy nuclear reactions, he said., 'We have measured
tritium (a by-product of fusion), measured heat multiple
ways...There are thousands of papers, hundreds of which
are bulletproof.'"
   "Mallove's parents, Mitchell and Gladys Mallove,
followed him to New Hampshire in 1988. His father died
last year after a long illness, but he was still caring
for his mother, who has Alzheimer's disease, Frazier
said."
   "He was also survived by his wife, Joanne; a
daughter, Kimberlynn; a son, Ethan; and one grandson."
(See the Boston Globe for May 16, 2004, "Police
investigate Norwich slaying of N.H. man." Many thanks to
Loren Coleman for this newspaper article.)


SPOTLIGHT ON VENUS

   "An extremely rare event will take place on Tuesday
morning, June 8 (2004), when the planet Venus can be seen
passing directly between the Sun and Earth everywhere east
of the Mississippi (River) and in several states west and
north of the river."
   "This 'transit of Venus,' as the event is called,
will mark the first time Venus has been seen crossing the
face of the Sun since 1882."
   "When the Sun rises over the (USA's) East Coast that
morning, the transit will already be in progress. Viewed
through a filter, Venus will appear as a dark spot slowly
moving across the Sun's disk. It will not be spectacular
like a total eclipse, but it is a much rarer astronomic
event."
   "Transits occur because the orbits of Venus and
Mercury are closer to the Sun than Earth's orbit. From
time to time, they pass directly in the sight line between
Earth and the Sun, and this is called a transit."
   "Mercury, the closest planet to the Sun, transits 13
times each century. But there have been only six transits
of Venus since the invention of the telescope almost 400
years ago. They enabled early astronomers to calculate
the distance from the Earth to the Sun, the size of the
Sun, and, ultimately, the scale of the solar system,
giving a clearer understanding of humankind's place in the
universe."
   "Transits of Venus take place in pairs separated by
eight years. After this year's transit, a second will
occur in June 2012, but it will not be visible from North
America. The next transit after that won't happen for 105
years--in 2117."
   "Compared with Mars, Earth's other neighbor is not a
very nice place. The surface temperature is 900 degrees
Fahrenheit, and lava covers most of the landscape. It's
always overcast, but it never rains. The clouds are made
of sulfuric acid."
   "'When they found the sulfur, that was the nail in
the coffin,' said planetary scientist David Grinspoon.
The concensus" 'Fire and brimstone,' he said, 'Venus is
hell.'"
   "But Grinspoon, a researcher at the Southwest
Research Institute, has another idea."
   "Grinspoon is a leading advocate for the thesis that
Venus' battery-acid clouds might very well support
microbial life--like the 'extremophile' microorganisms
that Earth's scientists have found thriving near volcano
outflows."
   "'There was a long history of people believing there
was life on Venus,' Grinspoon said. 'It was about the
same size as Earth. It had clouds. It was commonly
believed it was tropical--wet, hot and steamy.'"
(Editor's Note: True enough! In the 1930s, Edgar Rice
Burroughs and C.L. Moore wrote science fiction stories set
on a "tropical" Venus. When Mariner 2 made its flyby in
1962, your 12-year-old editor was downright crushed to
discover that "my Venus"--with its unplumbed oceans,
trackless rain forests, prehistoric cities, dinosaurs,
eternal cloud cover, multicolored humanoids, Bronze Age
warriors and princesses, and weird alien ruler, the
Alendar--didn't exist, and that the planet was just too
darned hot to sustain any form of life.)
   "The bloom began to fade in the late 1950s when
radiation measurements suggested that Venus was hotter
than tradition had taught. This view was confirmed in
1962 by Mariner 2, the first Earth spacecraft to embark on
a voyage of exploration."
   "And after more than 20 subsequent flybys, Venus in a
few short decades fell from its perch as the solar
system's darling to become 'the example of how a planet
couldn't possibly have life,' Grinspoon said."
   "But maybe it can. Scientists generally accept that
Venus had large, warm liquid water oceans for at least
several hundred million years, and Grinspoon said they
could have lasted as long as 2 billion years."
   "At some point, however, the oceans heated up and
boiled away. The result was a 'runaway greenhouse
effect,' in which water vapor from the oceans trapped the
Sun's heat on the Venusian surface, causing the
temperature to rise higher and higher as more vapor boiled
off." (See Parade for May 23, 2004, "The Hot Planet
Crosses the Sun," page 8; and the Duluth, Minn. News-
Tribune for May 23, 2004, "Despite its fire and brimstone,
Venus might have had life," page 16A.)
(Editor's Comment: Makes you wonder, doesn't it, just why
Venus' prehistoric oceans "boiled off?" Perhaps Venus was
once further away from the sun, and a rogue planet like
Nibiru pushed it closer. It could be that our solar
system is not quite as stable as we think it is.)


WEIRDEST NEWS YET FROM
FAYETTE COUNTY, PA.

   "Statues depicting the Revolutionary War general for
whom Fayette County (Pennsylvania) is named should be in
place along every highway at the county's borders by
Memorial Day," May 31, 2004.
   "County Commissioner Joe Hardy, the multimillionaire
who heads 84 Lumber, is paying $250,000 out of his own
pocket for the statues of the Marquis de Lafayette at the
county limits along Routes 21, 40, 51, 119 and 857."
   "'When you come in from Washington County, when you
come in from Westmoreland (County), when you come in from
West Virginia, you'll know you're in Fayette County,'
Hardy said."
   "Since taking office in January (2004), Hardy has
already spent $1 million on a revitalization plan for
Uniontown (population 12,422), the county seat."
   Marie-Joseph Paul Yes Roch Gilbert du Motier, "the
Marquis de Lafayette, was a French military officer who
joined the American side as a major general in 1777."
   But in Arkansas, the Fayette Factor jinx proved as
potent as ever when yet another mysterious fire broke out
in Fayetteville (population 58,047).
   "Investigators said Thursday," May 20, 2004, "that
they believe a fire at an elementary school playground in
Fayetteville Wednesday evening was arson." (See the
Centre Daily Times of Centre County, Pa. for May 21, 2004.
Many thanks to Loren Coleman for these reports.)


NASA UNVEILS LUNAR
EXPLORATION PLAN

   "Astronauts could go to the moon for as long as 90
days in the first step toward reaching President Bush's
goal of sending a man to Mars, NASA says."
   "The preliminary plans provide the first glimpse of
the next possible moon mission and how NASA intends to
prepare for a Mars expedition. Extended moon visits were
proposed by Bush in January (2004) as a steppingstone for
the more complex task of reaching Mars."
   "Bush called for Americans to revisit the moon as
early as 2015 and no later than 2020. No human has set
foot on the moon since astronaut Eugene Cernan left in
1972."
   "NASA's planning for another moon mission is in a
very early stage, and it's possible that the mission will
never take place. Polls show that the public has not
embraced Bush's space plan, and legislators from both
parties have been hesitant to allocate money for it."
   "Another possibility being considered by NASA is a
seven-day stay that would test the agency's ability to
assemble spacecraft in weightlessness and land on
different parts of the moon, says Michael Lembeck, a NASA
official working to design a new lunar craft. Crew size
could range from two to six people."
   "'I think it's terrific if they can pull it off,'
said Roger Launius, a space historian at the Smithsonian
Institution's National Air and Space Museum. 'I do think
it's doable. To think we can't do this would be
shortsighted.'"
   "A 90-day mission would be far more ambitious than
the Apollo moon landings of the 1960s and 1970s. Only two
men at a time landed on the moon during the Apollo
program, and they never stayed much more than three days."
   "The lengthy mission would allow NASA 'to get some
experience with operations at a distance for long
durations,' Lembeck says. Such experience would be vital
for a Mars mission, which could last a year."
   "Power for a long stay on the moon could come from a
small nuclear reactor, which NASA is also working to
develop. Water and oxygen could be shipped to the lunar
surface on robotic cargo carriers. But NASA officials
still must figure out how to shield moon residents from
space radiation."
   "NASA officials drew up the mission scenarios to help
develop a crew exploration vehicle to go part of or all
the way to the moon. The vehicle's design will be
determined in part by the mission's length and the crew
size."
   Projected dates for the exploration plan include:
   "2008--The crew exploration vehicle, which will carry
astronauts to the moon, makes its first unmanned test
flight."
   "2008--Robotic craft start flying to the moon to
prepare for human expeditions."
   "2014--The crew exploration vehicle makes its first
manned flight."
   "2015 to 2020--Astronauts return to the moon." (See
USA Today for May 20, 2004, "Moon missions could be step
to Mars," page 3A.)


From the UFO Files...

1910: A TEENAGED TIME
      TRAVELER

   Howard Phillips Lovecraft (1890-1937) was an
enthusiastic letter-writer all throughout his life,
sometimes writing to several people a day. Among his
regular pen pals during the last year of his life was
Willis Clark Conover Jr. (1920-1996) who was then a 15-
year-old boy living in Cambridge, Maryland.
   While writing his book Lovecraft At Last, decades
after HPL's death, Conover stated, "There is a paradox I
can't resolve. When our correspondence began, H.P.
Lovecraft was forty-five. Today I am older than he ever
was, yet he is forever the older man. He was three times
my age when I knew him. I still know him, and he doesn't
change."
   "Little is left of the world I knew in 1936 and 1937.
World War II has come and gone. Television, jets we take
for granted. Men have walked on the moon. Men's and
women's clothes have become interchangeable."
   "Today I'm happily married. I live in Manhattan, and
I love it. I commute about fifty thousand miles per year,
and I no longer exist for the newest issues of Astounding
Stories and Weird Tales; the magazines themselves, as
such, are gone (This was the case in 1975, when Conover's
book was written. Weird Tales, "the unique magazine," was
revived in the 1990s--J.T.) Everything is different."
   "I don't even recognize the teenage boy I was when I
wrote to Lovecraft."
   "HPL lives and speaks in his letters. I am newly
affected--and as much as ever--when I read them again now,
from the beginning of our correspondence to its
inescapable end."
   "I don't recognize the boy any more. I do recognize
the way he felt about H.P. Lovecraft because I feel the
same way today."
   "It was the boy who disappeared, not HPL."
   Conover had a dream. He wanted to create a non-
profit "fan magazine" (now called fanzine) devoted to the
science fiction of the period.
   "My father was an Army officer," Conover recalled,
"He expected me to become one, too. In due time I was to
attend The Citadel--the Military College of South
Carolina. But I had lived on enough Army posts and seen
enough regimentation to know it wasn't for me."
   "Early in life, therefore, I retreated into myself.
I dreamed day and night. I sketched with pencil or pen
and ink, listened to music, went to movies, read books and
magazines."
   "I could read almost as soon as I could talk...As a
child I lived in Oz, Barsoom and Pellucidar. Beginning in
the 1930s, when I found Amazing Stories and Weird Tales at
newstands, I travelled to the moon, to Mars and Venus, to
the past and the future, to the fourth dimension, and into
crypts and castles and haunted houses."
   "One day I received a letter from a science fiction
fan in a Midwestern state. He had read one of my letters
in a magazine, and he wanted to correspond. Soon I was
exchanging letters with a half a dozen youngsters I'd
never met. The sweetest music I heard was the morning
clank of the gate in front of our house in Cambridge,
Maryland, when the postman arrived and I prepared for new
conversations with my unseen friends."
   "The teenager's impulse to form a club or join a
movement proved irresistible."
   So was born the Science-Fantasy Correspondent, with
Willis as the editor and "a boy in New Jersey as the
publisher." He wrote to Weird Tales, got HPL's address in
Providence, R.I. and contacted him directly. Not only did
HPL agree to an interview, he supplied Willis with out-of-
print poems and short stories and put him in touch with
other sci-fi and fantasy writers of "the Lovecraft
Circle."
   Unknown to Lovecraft, however, Willis had had a few
paranormal experiences. Not unlike the "Night Gaunt"
episodes HPL himself had undergone in 1896.
   One of these involved a space-time warp that sounds
suspiciously like a modern-day Xendra (pronounced Shenn-
drah--J.T.)
   In November 1936, Willis wrote, "A few feet above the
sidewalk across the street from my own house, there was a
warp in space--the focal point of where the four ends of
space meet. It resembled the navel of a seedless orange,
but it was almost perfectly transparent: I could barely
see it. On the sidewalk, my younger brother was walking--
backwards--toward the space-warp. I realized it was a
passage into another dimension or another time. In a
moment my brother would fall right through it. He would
disappear into another dimension. And I would follow
him."
   "My mother ran out of our house and into the street,
to stop my brother. 'What is he doing?' she yelled. I
explained that we were going into a different time-
dimension--adding that we had often taken long trips in
space-time, through another passageway hidden in our
attic."
   "Now I had gone--without my brother--through the
space-warp above the sidewalk, and I was walking down High
Street" in Cambridge, Maryland "in the early 1900s. I
came to some sort of small restaurant or grille out over
the (Choptank River's) edge on stilts or pilings, the
entrance level with the street and touching it but some
ten or fifteen feet above the water."
   Willis shared this dream with HPL, who wanted to hear
it all. So Willis followed up with more:
   Approaching the shoreside restaurant, Willis wrote,
"I asked the white-jacketed cook if he could tell me where
I might find 'young Lovecraft.' He said Lovecraft was out
on the river in his leaky rowboat, and pointed. Sure
enough, there was the H.P. Lovecraft of about 1910, rowing
toward a ladder hanging from the side of the restaurant
down to the water's surface. The cook told me to stick
around for a moment, he'd soon have the young fellow
here."
   Climbing the ladder, the 20-year-old, dark-haired,
brown-eyed HPL encountered the strangely-dressed boy of
15. A boy with oddly-shaped glasses, dark hair parted on
the left, a blunt nose and bright, intelligent eyes.
   Willis wrote, "Young Lovecraft, a somewhat frail lad
of nineteen or twenty (a pretty accurate description of
HPL at that age, considering that Willis never met
Lovecraft--J.T.), walked up High Street with me. We
chatted quite pleasantly, despite a certain reserve on his
part. He seemed astonished when I told him I had come
from the future to see him, that I knew the H.P. Lovecraft
of nearly thirty years ahead..."
   At that, Willis woke up, only to find himself lying
in his own bedroom in 1936.
What to make of such a strange dream? he wondered. And
what about the alien "space-warp" floating above the
sidewalk? Where had the inspiration for that come from?
(Editor's Note: Bopping around in hyperspace was the forte
of Salem witch Keziah Mason and her alien sidekick, Brown
Jenkin, in HPL's short story The Dreams in the Witch
House, published in Weird Tales in 1932.)
   Intrigued by the boy's letter, Lovecraft wrote back:
"Your recent dreams surely seem up to the usual standard--
that one about the hidden room and the not wholly alive
sleeper being a winner! You ought to make a story of
that!"
   Then came HPL's astounding revelation: "I feel greatly
complimented by my inclusion in the time-juggling dream,
and am glad of the data on my 1910 whereabouts. I was
very ill (with a bad case of the prosaic malady measles--
HPL) early in 1910, and have only a hazy recollection of
things for some time during that year. Now I know where I
was! Undoubtedly I had gone down to the Eastern Shore (of
Maryland--J.T.) to recuperate...With this memory-jogging I
distinctly recall that prepossessing visitor from the
future--although I'll admit I didn't believe that time-
travelling stuff. I thought you were just spoofing.
Indeed, I never thought I'd be alive as far into the
fabulous future as 1936."
   "Pray accept my belated apologies for the skepticism
of 1910! Incidentally, I used to do a little rowing here
(on Narragansett Bay in Rhode Island--J.T.) as well as in
Maryland."
   Apparently, HPL's mother, Sarah Susan Phillips
Lovecraft, brought her ailing son to her brother Elliott
Phillips' house in Maryland, to get away from New
England's cold weather. But not until nearly the end of
his life did HPL realize what had occurred that day.
   Somehow Willis C. Conover Jr. had traveled back 26
years in time to make contact with HPL's younger self.
   Lovecraft died on March 15, 1937 at the age of 46.
Willis Conover grew up and attended the State Teacher's
College at Salisbury, Md and became a radio announcer for
WTBO in Cumberland, Md. He gradually found his way back
into music and had a long career promoting jazz on the
U.S. Information Agency's Voice of America program,
supporting and organizing jazz concerts and events. He
wrote the book about his friendship with HPL in 1975.
Retiring from VOA in 1993, he passed away three years
later.
   His "Lovecraft dream" remains unexplained. (See the
book Lovecraft At Last by H.P. Lovecraft and Willis
Conover, Cooper Square Press, New York, N.Y., 2002, pages
130 to 136, 274 and 275.)


Report from the Editor: On Sunday, May 16, 2004, I saw
the preview of the new climate-change disaster movie The
Day After Tomorrow. For those UFO Roundup readers who
have reported experiencing "Big Wave" dreams in the past,
you may want to take a Valium before you go to the
theater. You're going to see your recurrent nightmare
right up there on the screen. The tidal wave scenes are
awesome but also very intense and a little disturbing.
   Good news for Van Helsing fans. The production
company is still paying rent on the outdoor set in Prague
"so they can quickly launch a sequel and--if they do--two
of the new 'classic monsters'" will be the Invisible Man
and the Gill Man from Creature from the Black Lagoon. But
they'd better hurry and get Hugh Jackman signed up. He
starts work on X3 in a couple of months.

Well, that's it for this week. Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup." See you next week!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and
list.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers.
If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received
the bulletin in error, please write to:

 <john.nul>

With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

                             Restore John Ford!

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:29:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:08:42 -0400
Subject: Restore John Ford!


Restore John Ford!

http://www.alienview.net/fordfade.html


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

                 Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming

From: Paul Anderson <cccrnnews.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:13:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:16:31 -0400
Subject: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming


CCCRN NEWS
E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

May 25, 2004

http://www.cccrn.ca

_____________________________


NEW @ BLT: EYEWITNESS REPORT OF A CROP CIRCLE FORMING IN POLAND

In 2003 Nancy Talbott (BLT Research Team Inc.) had the
opportunity to visit Wylatowo, Poland and carry out fieldwork
there in conjunction with people from the Nautilus Foundation
and with the help of a British team-mate, Dan Lobb. Among other
interesting events recorded there was a spectacular eyewitness
account of a crop circle forming in 2000 involving a complex
aerial object settling down in a field in which, the following
morning, a crop circle was found - the design of which closely
resembled the visually-perceived object of the night before.

This is the first time, to our knowledge, that the action of a
complex aerial object has resulted in the production of a crop
circle whose design mimicked the object itself.

Additionally, the design produced (I have been told by several
Poles that it is called a "Polish Cross") was both replicated
and/or elaborated upon in the years following... and not only in
fields. A fisherman, in another area of Poland altogether,
caught a carp with the same design embedded into both sides of
its body in a totally unexplicable manner.

To read the full report, with excellent photos, go to
www.bltresearch.com and click on either "Updates" or "Eyewitness
Reports."

Another BLT report of an eyewitness to a UFO landing in Golabki,
Poland, with recovered physical evidence and analyses which
prove the presence of intense heat having been present has also
been issued and is available at:

http://www.rense.com/general49/blt.htm>www.rense.com/general49/blt.htm

Two more reports on the Poland trip will be forthcoming soon,
one of which suggests the source for the recovered physical
evidence at Golabki may have been fields nearby, the other of
which will provide photos of the Polish crop circles along with
sample plants/controls, as well as multiple photographic
anomalies recorded during the trip.

The BLT Research Team Inc. has also begun two new research
projects (see "Current Projects") and reports will be issued as
soon as the work is completed.

Finally, in response to multiple enquires asking my opinion of
Robbert v/d Broeke's recent "alien" photo I am working on a
report which I hope to be able to post soon.

Thanks for your attention,
Nancy Talbott
BLT Research Team Inc.


NOTE:

One of the two new research projects also mentioned above
features BLT / CCCRN growth studies being done with samples of
hybrid field corn (maize) from the two formations at Agassiz and
Abbotsford, British Columbia in 2003. As mentioned in the
preliminary update linked to below, both formations exhibited
significant physical anomalies (full report to follow).

http://www.bltresearch.com/current.html

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail

To subscribe or send an e-mail with either Subscribe CCCRN News
or Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to:
cccrnnews.nul

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been seriously investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists


Copyright CCCRN, 2004







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

                       Chulucanas Peru UFO-Trip Report

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:22:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:21:41 -0400
Subject: Chulucanas Peru UFO-Trip Report


Chulucanas UFO-Trip Report Chulucanas =96 Peru

Miguel Ramirez sent me a really nice report with photos last
night. He was on a road trip with friends.

Chulucanas is a small town in the northern region of Peru, about
30 minutes east of the city of Piura. The town is well known for
its pottery and recently because of various UFO sightings.

Between October and November of the year 2001 there have been 3
major UFO sightings which were video-aped on October 13, 15 and
November 15.

For the full report and photos, please visit:


http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D1314


Brian Vike
Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 25

                     Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:46:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:26:33 -0400
Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04 - Freeman


>From: Mary Chapman <alfie107.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:10:23 -0700
>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:10:26 EDT
>>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:43:48 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>>>>From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:29:49 -0400
>>>>Subject: PRG Update - 05-22-04

>>>>American Candidate

>>>>Despite receiving the third largest number of support votes
>>>>(35,000), Stephen Bassett was not one of the 24 finalists
>>>>brought to Los Angeles to interview for the Showtime reality
>>>>series, American Candidate. The message is clear: real
>>>>candidates for the presidency (or House and Senate for that
>>>>matter) cannot talk to the American people about the
>>>>extraterrestrial presence, and "reality" candidates cannot talk
>>>>to the American people about exopolitics - EMBARGO ON.

>>>>www.american candidate.com

<snip>

>>...And I won't be subscribing to Showtime to view the "event"
>>either! If I may add a few comments about this, let me just say
>>that it would be up to us, the UFO research community, to change
>>the course of events regarding whether or not the public and the
>>mass media take the subject of UFOs seriously enough to thrust
>>it past the realm of ridicule.

<snip>

>I took up the gauntlet and wrote in to Showtime with my
>complaints about their disregard for Stephen Bassett as a
>candidate in "The American Candidate" series. I
>hope_many_others will do the same.

>Below is the link to Showtime. Click on the link "Contact" to
>send an email to them!

<snip>

>http://americancandidate.com/contact.php


Hello Mary and List,

I, too, hope that others will do the same. If everybody who
voted for Stephen Bassett, which I assume is at least 35,000
supporters, sent an email, etc. asking for an explanation for
their decision or complained about it, perhaps the folks at
Showtime would get_the_message.

I just might write in Stephen Bassett when I vote this fall.  No
wait a minute, on second thought I _will_ write him in!

Stephen Bassett... 2008?


Kelly







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

             Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:21:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 05:33:50 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:13:00 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:40:00 +0100
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>>>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:32 -0400
>>>>>Subject: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>>>It must be noted that the Seismography Unit registered
>>>>>movement at the time of the unusual accident, a detail
>>>>>reminiscent of the Roswell, New Mexico (USA) event of 1947.

>>>>Not only the Roswell incident - check the "earthquake" at time of
>>>>Berwyns event.

>>>>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/berwyns.txt for references.

>>>... - the "rational explanation" for the Berwyn mountains
>>>event (most recently from the BBC) blatantly ignores most of the
>>>evidence - the build-up of sightings over some months ceasing
>>>that night, the so-called 'meteors' flying cross-country headed
>>>for the Berwyns that night, and the 'co-incidental' earthquake
>>>that night.

>>Yup, ... but I'm still angry about BBC
>>producers' omission of factual evidence and reports - then their
>>arrogant dismissal of (near unanimous?) criticism - then their
>>refusal to appear on the "Feedback" program where that criticism
>>could have been answered.

>Of equal concern is the fact that a case of, superficially at
>least, equal dimensions to Rhendlesham should have been so
>shamefully ignored by British researchers, that the only serious
>piece of published research has been done by a sceptic.

>We're in a bit of a sad state over here at the moment.

Hello Stuart,

Yes - and not only in the UK.

The truth is we've been in a mini "dark age"* as far as physics
is concerned since the early 20th Cent., when relativity and
quantum confusions set in.

Now we allow ourselves to be bamboozled into silence by
"authorities" (physics authorities where UFO's are concerned),
whenever they say "they know best" or "that speculation's
ridiculous"!

As Sir James Jeans said** (c1930) "At first sight [observable
ingredients of the external world] may seem to be of a vast
number of kinds; actually there is only one - the impact of
photons .... all energy which is transferred from one object to
another consists of photons".

And yet, despite the intervening years, science still doesn't
know what a photon is, or how it really works.

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/radiation.html#hoton

That means _all_ our observations are suspect, even those by
instrument (see "experiment effect"), and gives even more
authority to a statement from Alfred Russel Wallace:


"There is no law of nature yet known to us but may be apparently
contravened by the action of more recondite laws or forces"


http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/wallace.html#para

Yet we bow down to pronouncements from self interested gov't
hack 'scientists' and even to ignorant media (aren't all media
ignorant?) and allow them to dictate what is or isn't allowed as
'possible'.

'Science' doesn't know _any_ "absolute laws of physics", so
'science' should refrain from making biased comments on
anomalies - just observe them.

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/blinded.html

And that 'dark age' idea might be more apt than first thought -
after all, how would we know if we're in one or not?


Cheers

Ray D

*Dark Ages

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/subindex.html#dark

** pp178,179 The New Background Of Science - Sir James Jeans 1934

PS
Think the only use for most media publications, especially BBC
schedules, is on camping trips, for the obvious.
RD

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                  Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Cammack

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:03:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 05:46:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Cammack


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:05:37 +0100
>Subject: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans

>Extract from:

>http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040524.html

>Senior Science Writer of Space.com

>24 May 2004

>Universe Measured: We're 156 Billion Light-years Wide!

>By Robert Roy Britt

>If you've ever wondered how big the universe is, you're not
>alone. Astronomers have long pondered this, too, and they've had
>a hard time figuring it out. Now an estimate has been made, and
>it's a whopper. The universe is at least 156 billion light-years
>wide.

<snip>

If we can measure it, it must have edges. What's on the outside
of it?


Diana








                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                             FYI The Mexico Case

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:21:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 05:55:21 -0400
Subject: FYI The Mexico Case


[Delayed 'somewhere, out-there' arrived this a.m. --ebk]


Hi All,

One of the genuinely good things about how Jaime Maussan has
handled all of this is, after having been entrusted with this
most compelling piece of 'evidence' by the top military
officials in Mexico, Jaime has disseminated the material far and
wide _internationally_ and at warp speed. He is to be commended
for his democratic approach and the _superlative_ handling of
this whole case thus far. The man has been busting his hump over
this case and I'd like to be among the first to say a public and
well-earned, "Thank you" to Jaime.

Anything connected to this investigation is to be made as openly
available to all -as it can be made to be. It is in that spirit
that I post a copy of a communication between myself and Bruce
Maccabee. This way, _nobody_ is left out of the information loop
and no one can say that any information is being withheld by
anybody.

FYI UFO UpDates List:

Bruce Maccabee wrote:

>We MUST be able to
>correlate th radar detections with flir images, if possible.
>If they don't correlate, then so be it, but we won't know until we
>can establish the timing between radar targets and flir signals.

I responded:

Bruce, the crew already testified that the FLIR was pointed at
the _same_ target(s) they were getting on radar. I have read
this comment about the FLIR being pointed at the radar target in
a couple of places. It can also be heard in the audio portion of
the FLIR DVD.

Below is a copy of a note I received from Jaime with responses
to a couple of questions I had asked. In his response to me he
answers your question about radar data/recordings.

>Incidently, as the plane was flying eastward the objects
>may have been more than 15 miles away.

In the crew 'voice recording' that is part of the DVD, the crew
is calling out readings on the UFOs as they go. One voice will
say "I have the object at 12 miles distance" then another will
chime in with the speed of the object, "I make it moving at 335
MPH." etc.

I will be working on translating the sound track of the event
tomorrow. It should prove helpful to your analysis to know what
readings they were calling during the encounter.

I'm going to post a copy of this note to the List so every one
who is following along can stay on the same page as us
information-wise.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Note from Jaime:

John:


I have been reading in the list some of your questions.

1. Unfortunately the information in the Radar of the plane was
lost, because they never record that. They use the radar, just
to find the "blips", to chase them, and inform the military on
the ground if they land, and where did they land.

2. I ignore if there is information of radar in the ground. I
know they check twice with the military radar in city of Carmen,
Campeche, but this radar didn=B4t get the objects at any time in
the screen, it seems to me that they saw the objects in the
radar screen of the plane, but just in some angle. The only time
they saw the objects in the screen is when they chase the first
object and when the objects surrounded the plane, then they saw
two in the back and the left of the plane.

3. The Merlin C 26/A is not equipped with guns, it is just an
interception and information gathering airplane.

4. Starting this May the military is going to change the planes
to some more sophisticated planes.

5. I am here investigating in Campeche. I will let you know my
findings.

6. I don=B4t have anything against Scott Corrales-


Jaime

----------------------------------------------------------------

Hope all this helps, Bruce. I'll let you know about the DVD
audio translation as soon as I have it all down on paper.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                       Area 51 Hackers Dig Up Trouble

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 06:20:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 06:20:32 -0400
Subject: Area 51 Hackers Dig Up Trouble




Source: SecurutyFocus

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/8768

05-25-04


Area 51 Hackers Dig Up Trouble

By Kevin Poulsen
SecurityFocus

To the Area 51 buffs who travel to the Nevada desert in the
hopes of catching a glimpse of unexplained lights in the sky or
to bask in the mythic allure of the region, 58-year-old Chuck
Clark is almost as much a part of the local color as the Black
Mailbox.

A resident of tiny Rachel, Nevada - 100 miles north of Las Vegas
along the Extraterrestrial Highway - the amateur astronomer and
author has spent years keeping an eye on the spot the government
calls the "operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada." He's
said to be a frequent presence at the Little A'Le'Inn, where you
can purchase post cards and tee shirts, enjoy an "Alien Burger,"
and walk out with a copy of Clark's "Area 51 & S-4 Handbook" to
guide you on your journey into the desert.

But this self-appointed military watchdog is harder to find
these days: messages left for him at the Inn go unreturned, and
his media appearances have dried up like Groom Lake itself. "I
think he's really not as motivated to talk to the media anymore
as he used to be," says friend and fellow base-watcher Joerg
Arnu. The reason: it turns out the truth really was out there,
and the government didn't appreciate Clark digging it up.

Clark didn't find the Roswell craft or an alien autopsy room --
 in fact, while officially shrouded in secrecy, the 50-year-old
base is generally believed to be dedicated to the terrestrial
mission of testing classified aircraft. "The U2 spy plane, the
SR-71, the F-117A stealth fighter, all were flight-tested out of
the Groom Lake facility," says Steven Aftergood, director of the
Federation of American Scientists' Project on Government
Secrecy. The myth of Area 51 memorialized in films, T.V. shows
and novels is a function of the secrecy that surrounds it. "It
is a concrete manifestation of official secrecy at its most
intense, and that invites a mixture of paranoia and speculative
fantasy that has become ingrained in popular culture," says
Aftergood.

Even without aliens, the facility has its secrets, and last year
while roaming the desert outside the Groom Lake base Clark
stumbled upon one of them: an electronic device packed in a
rugged case and buried in the dirt. Marked "U.S. Government
Property," the device turned out to be a wireless transmitter,
connected by an underground cable to a sensor buried nearby next
to one of the unpaved roads that vein the public land
surrounding the base. Together, the units act as a surveillance
system, warning someone - somewhere - whenever a vehicle drives
down that stretch of road.

Similar devices had been spotted in the area in the early 90s,
but they were crude and bulky, stashed in the bushes and easily
spotted. They were later withdrawn. The new road sensors are
more clandestine, given away only by a slender antenna poking up
through the dirt. "They're very, very hard to find, because
there's just this little wire, like a blade of grass," says
Arnu.


Sniffing Out Surveillance

Arnu, a Las Vegas software engineer, has shared Clark's
preoccupation with the Groom Lake base since 1999, when he made
a trip to the area to see what all the fuss was about. "I
thought, okay, I'll give it a try, see what's out there... A
couple of days turned into a couple of weeks and before I knew
it I started developing a website about Area 51," says Arnu.

So when Clark found the new generation of road sensor, Arnu
drove out to help investigate further. The pair found that, at
close range, they could use a handheld frequency counter to pick
up the wireless signals given off by the devices as a car
passes. Over the following month and half, Clark and Arnu
engaged in a kind of geocaching game with the Men in Black,
systematically sniffing out the road sensors with the frequency
counter, exhuming them, and opening them up. They discovered
that each device was coded with three-digit identifier that
could be read off an internal dial, allowing Arnu to make a list
that correlated each unit's I.D. number with its GPS
coordinates, creating a virtual map of a portion of the
surveillance network surrounding the Groom Lake facility. Some
of the sensors were miles away from the base.

"We dug up about 30 or 40 of them on various access roads
leading to the base on public land," Arnu says, insisting that
he and Clark always carefully reburied each unit after logging
it, and even tested it with the frequency counter to make sure
it was still working before moving on to the next one.

Based on their survey, Clark and Arnu have estimated that there
are between 75 and 100 sensors, on public land used by hikers
and photographers in addition to curiosity seekers. "I think it
is absolutely inappropriate," says Arnu. "You have to understand
that people going out there-- not everybody is interested in
Area 51... They track these tourists on public land going about
their hobby."

When they'd gathered sufficient evidence that the Air Force was
bugging the desert, Arnu and Clark revealed the road sensors on
Arnu's website, Dreamland Resort, a forum and information site
for Area 51 aficionados and the "Official Home Page of the
world-famous Little A'Le'Inn." The reaction from the government
was immediate, according to Arnu: the road sensors were fitted
with a new feature aimed at better eluding detection. Now the
transmitters would wait a minute or two before broadcasting an
alarm, so that desert wardrivers are out of range before the
transmission takes place - at least, using relatively
insensitive detection equipment like a frequency counter.

Undeterred by the innovation, in June of last year Clark led a
news crew from Las Vegas' KLAS television station into the
desert and showed them some of the road sensors.

The following week, according to the station's report, FBI and
Air Force agents raided Clark's trailer home in Rachel, and
carted off his computer, photographs and records. The next day,
Arnu got a call at work from the FBI. "They demanded that I
speak with them the very same day," he says.


The Case of the Missing Sensor

The investigation sparked something of a backlash in Nevada. The
Las Vegas Review Journal editorialized against the FBI's
tactics. In the Las Vegas Mercury, George Knapp, the newsman who
filmed the KLAS segment, asked how far the government should be
allowed to go in protecting the secret base. "If you or I
accidentally kick one of these hidden transmitters, should the
feds be able to seize our Macintosh and photos of Aunt Betty?"
Arnu describes the probe as an intimidation tactic. "It didn't
lead anywhere," says Arnu. "It was basically a dead-end from the
beginning because we didn't break any law... We dug [the
sensors] up without damaging them or destroying them."

But court documents unsealed earlier this year reveal that there
was an unsolved mystery lurking around Groom Lake. It seems that
a month prior to the raid, one of the road sensors went missing-
 - vanished, like an abductee pulled into a flying saucer.

The government didn't charge anyone with stealing U.S. property,
but last December they charged Clark with a single count of
interfering with a communications system used for the national
defense. On March 12th, 2003 Clark allegedly obstructed,
hindered and delayed "a signal from a mini intrusion device"
located outside "the Nevada Test and Training Range" - a
reference to the government land that encompasses the Groom Lake
site.

"He removed one," says Natalie Collins, a spokesperson for the
U.S. Attorney's Office in Las Vegas. "It says that there, so
it's fine for me to confirm that."

In a deal quietly reached with prosecutors last January, Clark
agreed to "either locate and return the sensor removed on March
12, 2003 or pay restitution to the United States Air Force to
replace the missing sensor." In exchange, the government agreed
to suspend proceedings against Clark and to place him on a kind
of probation called "pretrial diversion": if Clark goes a year
without interfering with any of the road sensors, and doesn't
otherwise break the law, the government will drop the felony
charge.

Clark's phone number is unlisted, and he didn't respond to
repeated messages left for him at the Little A'Le'Inn over the
course of several months, and inquiries passed through Arnu.
Clark's attorney also declined to return repeated phone calls on
the case.

Arnu says his friend never told him about a missing sensor, or
his agreement to return it. "I refuse to believe that Chuck
would be stupid enough to remove one," says Arnu. "I know...
that he agreed to lay low for a year." Clark's adventures near
the most famously secret patch of real estate in the world
appear to have pulled him beneath the very cloak of secrecy he
poked and scratched at for so many years. He has, in a sense,
become a part of Area 51.


[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com & Richard Hendricks
 for the lead]






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

             Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality

From: Disclosure Project Truth Campaign <campaign.nul>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:48:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 06:57:43 -0400
Subject: Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality


Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality

http://www.disclosureproject.org


Several military and intelligence witnesses who were Strategic
Air Command (SAC) and other nuclear specialists have come
forward with testimony proving that UFOs are real and appear to
be concerned about our nuclear weapons.

The Disclosure Project has obtained the first-hand testimony of
several such insiders whose documents and corroborating
testimony proves that UFOs have monitored sensitive nuclear
facilities since at least the 1950s. While the UFOs were not
hostile, it was made clear that they were very concerned about
human weapons of mass destruction. On one occasion, UFOs over a
SAC Nuclear launch area took more than a dozen intercontinental
ballistic missiles (ICBMs) offline.

Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson: US Air Force (ret.):

"I was the top-secret control officer at Malmstom AFB for the
20th Air Division. I happened to see a message that came through
my communications center. It said... that 'A UFO was seen near
missile silos'... and it was hovering. It said that the crew
going on duty and the crew coming off duty all saw the UFO just
hovering in mid-air. It was a metallic circular object and from
what I understand, the missiles were all shut down. What I mean
by 'missiles going down' is that they went dead. And something
turned those missiles off, so they couldn't be put back in a
mode for launching."


Captain Robert Salas: USAF SAC Missile Launch Officer [1964-
1971]:

"The UFO incident happened on the morning of March 16, 1967.
... on duty at Oscar Flight as part of the 490th strategic
missile squad and there are five launch control facilities
assigned to that particular squadron... . and I received a call
from my topside security guard... and he said that he and some
of the guards had been observing some strange lights flying
around the site around the launch control facility. I said, you
mean UFO? He said, well, he didn't know what they were but they
were lights and were flying around. They were not airplanes;
They were not helicopters. They weren't making any noise... [A
little later] our missiles started shutting down one by one. By
shutting down, I mean they went into a "no-go" condition meaning
they could not be launched. These weapons were Minuteman One
missiles and were of course nuclear-tipped warhead missiles...
this incident was of extreme concern to SAC headquarters because
they couldn't explain it."


Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/Atomic Energy Commission
(ret.):

"After retiring from the Air Force I joined the Boeing company
and was responsible for accounting for all of the nuclear fleet
of Minuteman missiles. In this incident they actually
photographed the UFO following the missile as it climbed into
space and, shining a beam on it, neutralized the missile.  I
also learned of a number of incidents which happened, a couple
of nuclear weapons sent into space were destroyed by the
extraterrestrials. Our government sent a nuclear weapon for
explosion on the moon's surface... [And] the ETs destroyed the
weapon as it went toward the moon. [Apparently] the idea of any
explosion in space by any Earth government was not acceptable to
the extraterrestrials, and that has been demonstrated over and
over."


Professor Robert Jacobs: Lt. USAF 1369th Photo Squadron:

"... we were testing ballistic missiles that were to deliver
nuclear weapons on target... my duty [was] to supervise the
instrumentation photography of every missile that went down in
that western test range... and into the frame came something
else. It flew into the frame and shot a beam of light at the
warhead. Now, remember, all this stuff was flying at several
thousand miles an hour, so this thing fires a beam of light at
the warhead, hits it, ... . The warhead tumbles out of space.
The object, the points of light that we saw, the warhead and so
forth, were traveling through subspace about sixty miles
straight up, and they were going somewhere in the neighborhood
of eleven to fourteen thousand miles an hour, when this thing
caught up to them, flew in, flew around them, and flew back
out."


The Disclosure Project, a nonprofit research and public interest
group, has identified over 400 military, intelligence,
government and corporate witnesses to rogue UFO and ET-related
projects and events. The testimony of these witnesses along with
government documents and other evidence may be seen at
www.DisclosureProject.org.

The truth is ready for you. Are you ready for the truth?

http://www.disclosureproject.org

EDUCATIONAL BOOKS AND VIDEOS:

We have the following book, video, CD and DVD educational
materials available for purchase;

Disclosure (the book): 573 pages of witness testimony, in-depth
background research of UFO sightings and landings, documents
proving government knowledge and involvement, and more.

Extraterrestrial Contact - The Evidence and Implications: 526
pages exploring why ETs are here, the physics of ET travel, the
best Government documents related to UFOs, who is maintaining
the secrecy and why, what are the implications of disclosing
this information, and more.

National Press Club Conference Video (2 hours): Documentary of
the historic May 9, 2001 press conference that introduced the
Disclosure Project's "Smoking Gun" witnesses to the World's
press.

Disclosure Witness Video (2 hours): A distillation of over 120
hours of videotaped testimony of dozens of highly credible
military, government, and intelligence community witnesses
telling of their first hand experience and knowledge of this
subject.

Special Congressional Briefing Video (4 hours): Similar to the
above, this video was specially edited for and hand delivered to
members of congress, the executive branch, Pentagon officials,
NASA officials, etc. prior to and following the May 9 press
conference.

Disclosure DVD Vol. 1: 2 hours of witness testimony with witness
bios, our executive summary, briefing documents, and info on how
you can help kick open the door to the biggest story in modern
times.

Disclosure Summary CD: Executive summary and briefing documents
designed to educate the leaders of society on all aspects of
this issue.

Click here to order any of these products:
http://www.disclosureproject.org/shop.htm

YOUR DONATIONS ARE APPRECIATED
The Disclosure Project is a non-profit organization with NO outside funding. Our
 efforts are supported solely by sales of our educational materials and donation
s from PEOPLE LIKE YOU who are tired of the secrecy surrounding this subject. We
 need and want your support to help us locate and record, on videotape, more ins
ider witnesses. We currently have 119 potential witnesses waiting for enough fun
ds to get their stories in the record. You can help make this happen.
Click here to donate: http://www.disclosureproject.org/donations.htm

ARE YOU A WITNESS OR DO YOU KNOW A WITNESS?
If you are or know someone who is a government, military, or defense contractor
witness willing to come forward and join our effort, please contact our office a
nd we will put you in contact with Dr. Greer directly.
http://www.disclosureproject.org/contact.htm

PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE ON YOUR LIST. THE TIME IS NOW TO END THE
 SECRECY!

If you wish to be removed from this mailing list please reply to campaign.nul wi
th the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

               Big UFO Disclosures Due Soon By Foreign Powers?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 05:16:24 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 05:59:48 -0400
Subject: Big UFO Disclosures Due Soon By Foreign Powers?



Just heard Quayle and Co on C2C.

They mentioned something I had heard about quite some time ago.
Sort of fits the growing pattern.

What they brought up was how the Mexican government's
unprecedented disclosure may be part of an ongoing series of
disclosures regarding UFO data from foreign powers.

The impetus is a 'show up' to the U.S. and U.K. for not
disclosing UFO data.

Makes sense with all the animosity worldwide nowadays and since
we all know from experience that there's some sort of global
agreement to squash these stories until of late. Perhaps that
agreement has collapsed and we'll all be due for some suprising
information soon.

Since this topic is so hot and compartmentalized by our own
government it makes sense that other countries now realize that
this may be their one tool to put the U.S. in check and foul
things up.

Could be a scam, could be a new twist. Best to be on our toes to
be able to separate the chaff from the wheat.

The next several months are going to be quite interesting with
the Olympics coming up, election coming up and a new terrorist
threat warning.

Don't know about you all but I'm fit to buy me some land in the
hills somewhere.


Best,

Greg






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

              Alleged Non-Human Caught Digital Camera In Chile

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:48:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:30:31 -0400
Subject: Alleged Non-Human Caught Digital Camera In Chile


Chile: An Alleged Non-Human Caught on Film

Images here:

Source: http://www.elcajon.cl/ovniaventura/parquef.htm

Date: May 24, 2004

The author of the photo explains the white spot as well as how
the street lights began to turn on in sequence.

Kodak DX6490

The image was directly downloeaded from the camera to CIFAE's
computer.

Erick Mart=EDnez, of CIFAE Chile and Civil Engineer German Pereira


I'm from Concepcion and have been working in Santiago for little
over a a year. On May 10 this year I decided to take some photos
at Parque Forestal, taking some 10 shots which I downloaded to
my PC the following day .

I thought it would be interesting to photograph a group of
Carabineros - State Police - on horseback patrolling the sector.
The photo was taken at 17:40 hrs approximately from the corner
of JM de la Barra and Av. Cardenal Jose Mar=EDa Caro, in front of
bellas Bellas Artes and looking east.

It was a cloudy day and the sun was hidden, for which reason my
digital camera a Kodak DX6490 adjusted to low speed (1/10
seg.).

This is the reason why the photo shows motion (those
knowledegable about photography will know the reason
why)Furthermore, the Carabineros were som 20 meters distant, and
I employed the camera's optical zoom (10x) which added to the
blurred result.

The fact is that I am very impressed by this image. I attest to
the fact that it is not a fraud nor anything similar. For this
reason I have made it public and I contacted the staff of CIFAE
Chile. I would like to know the true nature of the image that
appears in it and if anyone has ever caught anything similar in
a photo. Nothing more.


German Pereira A.

Ing. Civil Mecanico

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Liliana Nunez O









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                   Proposal For The UFO Research Coalition

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:21:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:36:14 -0400
Subject: Proposal For The UFO Research Coalition


Hello All,

Dick Hall has put a bean in my ear and it is worthy of follow-up
and further development. The idea is basically this: If the
Mexican case passes muster (and it's looking good so far), a
thorough report on it should go to select Congressmen or
committees, and a whole bunch of scientists and news media types
(and not by Stephen Bassett or Dr. Greer. I suggest we bypass
them and their whole three ring circus. This is too important to
entrust to either of them.)

I think I can convince Dick Hall to ask the UFO Research
Coalition for cooperation and action on this matter. If the
Research Coalition as a group, can be doing something
worthwhile, this would be at the top of the list.

I know they are all hurting for money, but a special fund-
raising appeal would be in order for this. Don Berliner at FUFOR
and Larry Landsman at CFI/Podesta-Matoon/Sci-fi Channel can all
be approached for the necessary funding.

Dick? Are you up for this? You have worked with Congress and
congressmen in the past, your knowledge and experience in these
matters is second to none. Besides, I think that a great many of
us would feel a lot more confident knowing that you are at the
helm of this effort.

Mock congressional hearings? Phooey! I say we go for the real
thing! Let's see if we can't get _everybody_ involved in making
this happen.


Regards,

John Velez
Willing to do whatever is needed








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                  Scientist Seeks Alien Cloud-Dwelling Bug

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:10:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:47:29 -0400
Subject: Scientist Seeks Alien Cloud-Dwelling Bug


Source: The Register

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/26/life_on_venus/

Scientist seeks alien cloud-dwelling bug
By Lucy Sherriff
Published Wednesday 26th May 2004 13:22 GMT

Its surface temperature is hot enough to melt lead, and it rains
sulphuric acid, but US scientists think there might yet be life
on Venus, floating in its sulphurous clouds.

The existence of life on Venus depends on what the planet was
like billions of years ago. The current theory is that when the
solar system was young, Venus and Earth were very much alike,
and it is possible that there was even surface water on our
sister planet.

If the transformation was slow enough, life may have been able
to get an initial foothold, according to according to Louis
Irwin of the University of Texas at El Paso. He told The BBC"It
may well have been Earth-like long enough for life to either
emerge or be transported there".

Once established, life on Earth has adapted to almost every
available environment. On Earth, bacteria even live and
reproduce in the clouds, and Caltech's Professor Andrew
Ingersoll thinks that microbes might be able to do the same on
Venus.

In a report submitted to the journal of Astrobiology, Professor
Ingersoll suggests microbes may be able to eke out a living in
the thick clouds that cloak the planet, protected from the sun
by sulphur compounds. He is not alone: there is now a proposal
with Nasa for a mission to go there and find out.

However, others believe that it was the emergence of life on
Earth that stopped our planet undergoing a similar fate. Life on
Earth first appeared in the oceans, gradually sucking carbon
dioxide from the atmosphere, locking it away in limestone. If
the same had happened on Venus, the theory goes, it would have
resulted in a similar transformation there.

But Venus is 30 per cent closer to the sun. It is possible that
even if life did get started, the oceans boiled away. The clouds
would have been the only refuge. "If you think about what life
needs in a broad sense then the clouds of Venus might actually
be a habitat where something could live," commented David
Grinspoon, of the South West Research Institute in Colorado.

He argues that the organisms would, neccesarily, have evolved to
take advantage of the conditions, and could have found a way to
exploit the abundant UV radiation: "One lifeform's deadly
radiation may be another lifeform's lunch".

The mission proposal, now with Nasa, suggests "sending a probe
to Venus, not to the surface, but to the clouds". It would be a
balloon-like floating craft that would collect samples before
launching back into space off from the atmosphere to return to
earth. A surface mission would be much more difficult: the
atmospheric pressure is 90 times that at sea-level on Earth. =AE









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                     Stellar Blast Draws Meteor Hunters

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:18:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:49:23 -0400
Subject: Stellar Blast Draws Meteor Hunters


Source: The Montrose Press - Colorado

http://www.montrosepress.com/articles/2004/05/25/local_news/1.txt

5-26-04

Stellar blast draws meteor hunters

Mike Robuck

MONTROSE - Fallout from the meteor early Friday morning
continues.

A meteor exploded in the sky somewhere between Colona and
Montrose at 2:44 a.m. Friday, which prompted Mike Farmer and a
few friends to drive 14 hours from Tucson, Ariz., to look for
pieces of the meteor.

"I've been to places all over the world looking for meteors;
India, Oman, Chili," Farmer said. "I was in Spain last month.
I'm a meteorite hunter; I buy and sell the pieces to
universities, colleges and museums from all over the world. If
we find them, pieces of this meteor could end up in museums all
over the world."

A digital camera on top of Montrose High School caught Friday's
meteor as it raced across the sky from the south before
exploding. The MHS camera is one of 11 set up around the state
as part of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science's All-Sky
network. A meteor also exploded over the Black Canyon area in
2002, but Laura Hamilton, the Denver Museum's public relations
manager, said Friday's meteor was the brightest one yet to be
picked up by the program's All-Sky cameras.

Initially, it was thought the meteor broke up directly over
Montrose, but with a strong wind that night Farmer suspects the
fragments may have been blown northeast of town.

Farmer said finding pieces of the meteor can be like "finding
$100 bills."

"There are different kinds of meteors, but a golf ball-sized
piece of a rare one could bring up to $10,000," Farmer said.
"It's really hard to say what the value is without seeing a
piece first. Also, if there are a lot of pieces the price goes
down."

The fragments will be black with a smooth exterior. Farmer said
the inside is always a different color than the exterior. The
more common meteors are 98 percent stone with a little nickel
and iron in them while the more rare ones are comprised of solid
steel.

"If we're lucky, they hit cars and houses, but I don't think
that's the case here because we haven't heard anything," Farmer
said. "There was a meteor that exploded over south Chicago last
year where people were calling the police after the pieces hit
their cars and houses. We found most of the loose pieces in the
gutters after they had landed in the streets. Parking lots are
always a good place to look because it's easier to see."

Farmer arrived in Montrose on Sunday and by Monday he was ready
to head back to Tucson, but "I'll be back in a moment's notice
if someone finds something."

Mike Jensen, who owns Jensen Meteorites in Aurora, Colo., with
his brother, Bill, said if anyone finds a piece of the meteorite
they should avoid touching it with their hands because finger-
residue will contaminate them.

"Meteors are really important to scientists in helping them
understand our solar system," Mike Jensen said. "Mike Farmer is
a big time dealer while my brother and I are much lower down the
ladder. He makes a full-time living off of meteors while we do
it more from the scientific side."

Farmer said it's not unusual for the first meteor fragments to
turn up weeks or months after impact, although scientists would
prefer to get them before they're rained on.

With five All-Sky cameras making digital images of Friday's
meteor, Farmer said chances are good that the debris can be
triangulated, which would at least put the proverbial needle in
a certain haystack.

"What I like to tell people is that until someone finds one,
it's like a needle in a haystack, but you're not sure if it's
the right haystack or if there's really a needle," Jensen said.
"On Jan. 11 a meteor blew up not a half-mile from my house, but
even looking for that was pretty futile in the tall grass. If
you can get 100 or a 1,000 eyes out there looking, if it's in
the back of hunters' minds, that will help."

For more information on the meteor, or to provide information if
you saw it, go to www.cloudbait.com.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                 Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:42:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:51:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Stanford


>From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:38:40 -0400
>Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show

>>From: Greg Boone Evolbaby.nul
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:05:31 EDT
>>Subject: Project UFO The Old TV Show

>>I remember this show as a kid. It was produced by Jack Webb. It
>>was very 'matter of fact' and I vaguely recall some of the
>>episodes.

>>http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/EpisodeGuideServlet/showid-9331/Project_U
FO/

>>I found a fan page to the old tv show "Project UFO" that details
>>more about the show and it's 26 episode run.

>>Worth a glance!

>>http://www.glowingdial.com/p_ufo.htm

>Funny you should mention it, I do remember this show as a kid
>too and was wondering what the name was.....

>Now I know. Ah the memories, I think we need something like this
>again.

Only if one is a 'pelican' (UFO debunker)! That show was
designed by air force intelligence to put down the UFO subject,
and episodes were designed to start out having each report look
good and very mysterious, and them to 'demolish' it at the end.

How do I know? Well for one, I watched quite a few episodes and
that was clearly the scheme.

The clincher, however, is that a Ph.D. astronomer who got his
degree from the world's best school of astronomy at the
University of Arizona, Tucson, was contacted before the show's
production was begun, and offered a chance to go to work as a
UFO debunker for the show, which he was told in no uncertain
terms was to be produced for the USAF (U.S. Air Force). The
scheme, the astronomer was told, was to start each show making a
case look really promising and mysterious and Air Force
investigators look fair and open-minded, and then, in the end,
debunk the event as being of a prosaic origin. The astronomer
was offered the chance to help the government with the "UFO
problem". :)

Is that just an urban myth, or do I know about the astronomer's
offer to work for the USAF in a very direct way? Well, I have
known the astronomer for years and have every reason to believe
what he repeatedly told me actually happened soon after he
received his Ph.D. and was looking for one of those hard-to-get
jobs in astronomy. The astronomer was very upset that the
government would be behind such a dishonest, anti-UFO propaganda
scheme. He often brought up the job offer to him with great
disgust.

No, my friends, we do not need another repeat of "Project UFO"!

Makes me wonder why it is suddenly popping up after all those
years, available as easily as at Borders. Hmmm.....


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                        More Snobbish UFO Press Stuff

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:40:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:53:43 -0400
Subject: More Snobbish UFO Press Stuff


http://www.reporter-news.com/abil/fe_columns/article/0,1874,ABIL_7923_2914121,00
.html


Short but nevertheless 'barb-ish' reporter's response to a
citizen's inquiry about the origin of the term 'Close
Encounters'.

Doug Williamson is the reporter and instead of just giving the
citizen the answer, he just couldn't resist the condescending
barb here and there.

With the newsroom scandals of late and the common response from
the authorities and news services themselves being, " An
atmosphere of fear and intimi- -dation leading to compromises in
ethics ", or some such nonsense, it's no wonder witnesses are
hesitant to come forward.

What if the public responded to the press the way the press
treats us?


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

             Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:58:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:59:26 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:21:04 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:13:00 +0100
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>>>producers' omission of factual evidence and reports - then their
>>>arrogant dismissal of (near unanimous?) criticism - then their
>>>refusal to appear on the "Feedback" program where that criticism
>>>could have been answered.

>>Of equal concern is the fact that a case of, superficially at
>>least, equal dimensions to Rhendlesham should have been so
>>shamefully ignored by British researchers, that the only serious
>>piece of published research has been done by a sceptic.

>>We're in a bit of a sad state over here at the moment.


>Yes - and not only in the UK.

<snip>

>Yet we bow down to pronouncements from self interested gov't
>hack 'scientists' and even to ignorant media (aren't all media
>ignorant?) and allow them to dictate what is or isn't allowed as
>'possible'.

>'Science' doesn't know _any_ "absolute laws of physics", so
>'science' should refrain from making biased comments on
>anomalies - just observe them.

>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/blinded.html

>And that 'dark age' idea might be more apt than first thought -
>after all, how would we know if we're in one or not?


Hi Ray,

I was impressed with your response to Stuart's email and your
expansion into the area of "the authority as expert". All too
often the puplic and media rely on the kneejerk explanations of
some PH.D. whom the media has dug up out of the local
university. Rather than this "expert of the moment" saying that
they have no real expertize in that area they instead proffer
their own treasured, and often self-serving [safe] theories to
the media who lap it up, content in the fact that they have
checked their sources carefully. Usually they pick on an
astronomer who has as much knowledge as to what goes on between
space and the Earth's surface as the checkout lady at the
Walmart.

You bring up an interesting point about the photon. Since we
don't know the why and the how of photons, just the perceived
end result, then it's possible that photons could be
manipulated. Since that leads to a whole other can of worms and
speculation I won't go further than to suggest that on certain,
or possibly nearly all occassions, what we see might be what we
are meant to see-or not. Or on the flipside what our own brain
sees as opposed to another's brain when observing the same
object.


Best,

Don Ledger








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                 Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:21:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:01:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Stanford


>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:03:14 +0200
>Subject: Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Cammack

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:05:37 +0100
>>Subject: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans

>>Extract from:

>>http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040524.html

>>Senior Science Writer of Space.com

>>24 May 2004

>>Universe Measured: We're 156 Billion Light-years Wide!

>>By Robert Roy Britt

>>If you've ever wondered how big the universe is, you're not
>>alone. Astronomers have long pondered this, too, and they've had
>>a hard time figuring it out. Now an estimate has been made, and
>>it's a whopper. The universe is at least 156 billion light-years
>>wide.

><snip>

>If we can measure it, it must have edges. What's on the outside
>of it?


Inspiring question, Diana:

Diana The Huntress,
Hunting 'yond the edge,
Asks a question most profound,
But scientists just 'hedge'.

:)

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:29:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:03:59 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Ledger


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:05:56 -0500
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:17:26 +1000
>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:02:37 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:41:48 +1000
>>>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

><snip>

>>>You are forgetting one thing Barry. If the objects were being
>>>boosted along by 200mph winds at 12,000 feet [very unlikely as
>>>the jet stream is up in the  approx.28,0000-32,000 foot level]
>>>then the aircraft would be boosted along as well, meaning both
>>>the aircraft and the objects would both be in the same moving
>>>body of air. In any event, balloons are out of the question.

>>I am not at all saying the objects are balloons. i.e. the
>>helium filled weather balloon type. These of cause, would not
>>show up on infrared as the Mexico objects do.

>>What I am suggesting is, that the objects are showing to be very
>>hot, hence the footage as seen.

>We have to be careful about characterizing the temperatures as
>_very_ hot. As Bruce Maccabee has pointed out in another post,
>FLIR is not a radiometer and is designed to enhance and
>intensify images via their heat signatures. It will be difficult
>to determine the range of temperatures of these objects via FLIR
>alone.


Wasn't me that said that Terry. Barry I guess.

FLIR can be used to see body heat [obviously not very hot]
however it has to be carefully "tuned" to see the intended
target against the background heat [clutter] ie the ground,
trees, buildings etc. It works best at night, naturally, when
that background heat has dissipated somewhat.


Don Ledger






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                  Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:32:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:06:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Ledger


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: 2004/05/26 Wed AM 05:46:34 EST
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Cammack

>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:03:14 +0200
>Subject: Re: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans - Cammack

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:05:37 +0100
>>Subject: Cosmos Size God ET & Humans

>>Extract from:

>>http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040524.html

>>Senior Science Writer of Space.com

>>24 May 2004

>>Universe Measured: We're 156 Billion Light-years Wide!

>>By Robert Roy Britt

>>If you've ever wondered how big the universe is, you're not
>>alone. Astronomers have long pondered this, too, and they've had
>>a hard time figuring it out. Now an estimate has been made, and
>>it's a whopper. The universe is at least 156 billion light-years
>>wide.

><snip>

>If we can measure it, it must have edges. What's on the outside
>of it?


All of the other universes.

Don








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                          Secrecy News -- 05/26/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:34:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:08:23 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/26/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 47
May 26, 2004


**      CIA DENIES REQUEST FOR DECLASSIFIED DOCUMENT COLLECTION
**      CLASSIFICATION OF COMPILATIONS OF UNCLASSIFIED INFO
**      BOOK: HOODWINKED
**      BOOK: INSIDE THE PENTAGON PAPERS
**      SENATORS SEEK REPEAL OF PATRIOT ACT SUNSETS


CIA DENIES REQUEST FOR DECLASSIFIED DOCUMENT COLLECTION

In a splendid example of its dysfunctional information policies,
the Central Intelligence Agency this month denied a Freedom of
Information Act request for a copy of a CD-ROM collection of
documents that it had declassified and provided to the National
Archives years ago.

The request for the CD-ROM was filed by Tim Brown of
GlobalSecurity.org in May 2001.

The CIA has declassified millions of historical documents in
recent years, but the Agency makes access to most of them about
as burdensome as possible.

The entire collection that was requested by Mr. Brown is
available to researchers who are able to visit the National
Archives, but only paper copies of the documents may be
obtained.

Why not provide a complete set in soft copy?

This option was mandated by Congress when it amended the FOIA in
1996 to state:   "An agency shall provide the record in any form
or format requested by the person if the record is readily
reproducible by the agency in that form or format."

But incredibly, the CIA says that to release the documents on
CD-ROM would damage national security.

"After due consideration, we have determined that the requested
material must be denied on the basis of FOIA exemption (b)(1)
[which exempts properly classified information]," wrote Alan W.
Tate, the Acting Information and Privacy Coordinator at CIA, in
a May 12 letter to Mr. Brown:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/05/cia051204.pdf

It is doubtful that the requested CD-ROM meets even the most
lenient standards for classification, particularly since all of
the component documents are in the public domain and could be
manually compiled into a softcopy collection, with some effort
and expense.

But the denial highlights the radical defects in CIA information
policy, as well as the Agency's seeming inability to accurately
assess threats to national security.

Mr. Brown of GlobalSecurity.org said he will appeal the
decision.


CLASSIFICATION OF COMPILATIONS OF UNCLASSIFIED INFO

The notion that a collection of unclassified items could somehow
be properly classified is counterintuitive, yet it is authorized
in the governing executive order on classification:

"Compilations of items of information that are individually
unclassified may be classified if the compiled information
reveals an additional association or relationship that: (1)
meets the standards for classification under this order; and (2)
is not otherwise revealed in the individual items of
information." (Executive Order 13292, sect. 1.7e).

Still, the practice remains controversial.

"Classification experts disagree on whether a compilation of
unclassified items of information should be classified," wrote
Arvin S. Quist in a 1991 study performed for the Department of
Energy.

See "Classification of Compilations of Information" newly
available online here (1.3 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/compilations.pdf


BOOK:  HOODWINKED

The yawning gulf between the Bush Administration's sequential
rationales for the war in Iraq and the facts as they have
emerged (e.g. regarding weapons of mass destruction, links to al
Qaida, etc.) has left many people grasping for an explanation of
what went wrong.

Lately, the suggestion has been raised that the war was
propelled by an Iranian effort to spread disinformation about
the state of Iraqi WMD programs.  Was the Bush Administration
the unwitting victim of a foreign covert action?

Historian John Prados doesn't think so.  In his new book
"Hoodwinked," he argues that officials knowingly manipulated the
available information "to win popular support for an unprovoked
war."

"This book is an attempt to compile and share with the American
public for the first time the actual intelligence available to
the Bush administration as it made its case for war.  It then
aims to show how this information was consistently distorted,
manipulated, and ignored, as the president, vice-president,
secretaries of defense and state, and others, sought to persuade
the country that the facts about Iraq were other than what the
intelligence indicated," Prados writes.

Although the author plainly has a point of view, the book stays
fairly close to the documentary record, providing copies of key
source documents like the October 2002 CIA White Paper on Iraq,
and carefully annotating and analyzing them.

Though it is not the last word on the subject, the book provides
a solid formulation of the questions about the U.S. war in Iraq
that citizens and voters will have to contend with in the months
and years to come.

See "Hoodwinked: The Documents that Reveal How Bush Sold Us a
War" by John Prados of the National Security Archive, just
published by the New Press, 2004:

http://www.thenewpress.com/books/hoodwinked.htm


BOOK:  INSIDE THE PENTAGON PAPERS

The "backstory" of the Pentagon Papers case -- how it came
about, what it meant, and what its consequences were -- is the
subject of another new book co-edited by John Prados, who has
been busy lately.

Based in part on a June 2001 symposium marking the thirtieth
anniversary of Daniel Ellsberg's famous "leak" of classified
information, the book provides numerous perspectives on the
impact and significance of the case.

For more information about "Inside the Pentagon Papers," edited
by John Prados and Margaret Pratt Porter, University Press of
Kansas, 2004, see:

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/prains.html


SENATORS SEEK REPEAL OF PATRIOT ACT SUNSETS

The simmering debate about whether or not to renew several
provisions of the USA Patriot Act that are set to expire next
year would be foreclosed by a new bill to repeal the sunset
clauses of the Act, in effect making all of the Act's provisions
permanent.

Ten influential Republican Senators, led by Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ),
quietly introduced the bill on May 21.

"The Patriot Act has played a major role in what U.S. antiterror
investigations have accomplished so far," said Sen. Kyl.  "And
it is clear that we will continue to need the authorities
created by the Patriot Act into the foreseeable future."

See his May 21 statement on S. 2476, a bill to amend the USA
PATRIOT Act to repeal the sunsets, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/s2476.html

In testimony before the House Judiciary Committee last week,
former Rep. Bob Barr (R-GA) recalled that his support for the
USA Patriot Act was predicated on the "sunset" of several of its
provisions so as to allow Congress to review how the Act's new
powers were used.

"Making those powers permanent now would take away any leverage
Congress now has to secure cooperation from the Justice
Department in its oversight efforts," Mr. Barr said May 18.

Congress can ill afford to surrender any such leverage.

Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) recently noted that over a year had
passed since Attorney General Ashcroft had agreed to appear
before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

"March 4, 2004 was the 1-year anniversary of the last, brief
appearance by Attorney General Ashcroft before the Senate
Judiciary Committee," Sen. Leahy noted on April 8.

"It was not an anniversary that we marked for celebration.
Instead, we marked the day as a low point, and symbolic of the
disdain shown by the administration for oversight by the
people's representatives in Congress."  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/s040804.html


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

               Translation Of Portions Of FLIR Audio Recording

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:57:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:20:52 -0400
Subject: Translation Of Portions Of FLIR Audio Recording


Hello All,

I want to keep everybody as up to date as possible with regard
to the progress that being made to translate the audio
recording of the crew made _during_ the encounter. Below is a
copy of a note I sent to Bruce Maccabee. I hope everybody who is
following developments in this case is keeping all fingers and
toes crossed.

So far, so good. But shush... I don't want to jinx it!  ;)

The following copy of a private correspondence is offered for
the timely and democratic edification of all interested parties:


Hi Bruce,

More:


--------

16:42:45

"I have it at, 12 o'clock from our position and at 2.9 miles distance.
Velocity 75."

--------

16:52:40

"What was that?"

--------

16:53:11 - 16:53:16

FLIR: "It's behind us!"

RADAR: "That's correct, he is at our 7 o'clock position. -10.5 miles
heading; 283 with a velocity of 334.

--------

16:55:20

"We have had contact with the object on FLIR and on radar."

--------

16:55:47

RADAR: "Well, I'm almost at the point of losing him on radar."

--------

16:56:11

"It's just a few miles from, Carmen."

--------

16:56:20

Q. "How many miles?"

A. "One or two miles from Carmen."

--------

16:56:22

RADAR: "I don't have it on my screen anymore but I make it
at 37 miles distance."

--------

16:56:29

FLIR: "I have it over Carmen"

--------

16:57:03

FLIR: "It's passing Carmen."

--------

16:57:19 - 16:57:22

Q. "What is it doing?"

A. "It's turning."

Q. "It's turning?"

A. "Yes, it's turning."

--------

17:03:41

"...at 7 or 8 o'clock... what's strange is, there is a 'point'
out in front.  ... there's a little point in front."

--------

17:04:13 [when a 'cluster' of 11 UFOs flying in formation
          appears from the left of the FLIR screen --JV]

FLIR: "There are more! Radar, what do you have?"

RADAR: "Nothing, Sir."

--------

17:04:29

FLIR: "I have 10, 11 objects!" [With tremendous excitement
in his voice --JV]

--------

17:04:36

FLIR: "It should be at your 9 o'clock position."

--------

17:04:40

FLIR: "They are at the same altitude as us, almost, almost."

--------

17:04:43

"Affirmative, there they go!"

--------

17:15:55

FLIR: "Ok, the one at our 1 o'clock I have at 19 miles, at 52 knots."

--------


There is so much more on this audio recording. I will send in more
as I get it translated.

Regards to All,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

             Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:32:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:25:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack - Yturria


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:14:49 -0700
>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:02:19 -0400
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:01:42 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Mexico UFO The Sceptics Counterattack

><snip>

>>BTW, these guys had to be armed to the teeth. Any mention of
>>weaponry on board the airplane? If so, what kind of weapons? If
>>I'm not mistaken, these drug interdiction planes are prepared to
>>force the bad-guys down on the deck if they have to.

>>The data _is_ there. It _has_to_be.

>Good Day John, Bruce, et al,

>John, although asking for any additional records, ground
>support, radar, etc., will of course answer the question if any
>exists, I don't think it's sagacious to 'assume' anything in
>regard to this investigation, or for that matter any
>investigation. Our nemeses (debunkers, naysayers, pelicanists
>etc.) 'assume'  that there is a plausible explanation for UFOs,
>so knee-jerk explications are published in mainstream media
>without proper scientific protocol.

>The Mexicans observed and recorded the phenomena, and for those
>of us that partake in any post investigation or research, it is
>necessary for us to follow said protocol, and draw theorem from
>the known facts as to ascertain just what was witnessed.

>Separately, in Santiago Yturria's initial report he said:

>"This airplane is programmed only for surveillance and detection
>procedures, not for interception or combat maneuvres. Their duty
>s to detect and identify drug dealers flights and then
>immediately report them to the base where combat planes are
>scrambled to intercept those narcotics smugglers."

>This statement seems to negate any 'offensive' weapons, however;
>this still needs to be verified.

>I think the question that arises is, "were any planes
>'scrambled' in defense of the Merlin when it became the
>pursuee?"


Hello,

Commander Castanon decided not to request backup assistance
because he was expecting to make visual contact till the last
moment. He was in contact with the base reporting they were
seeing unknown objects through the FLIR.

Mayor Castanon reported at 17:07:14


"Listen we don't know what are we seeing, they are just luminous
objects that are flying at the same altitude as us. We cannot
know what's their distance."


I assume he was trying to be sure before requesting further
actions because the objects were not visible at to the eyes so
it must have been a moment of a hard decision in the middle of
a strange and unprecedent situation.


Santiago








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

              Re: Alleged Non-Human Caught On Digital Camera In

From: tshell.nul
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:03:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:27:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged Non-Human Caught On Digital Camera In


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:48:09 -0400
>Subject: Alleged Non-Human Caught On Digital Camera In Chile

>Chile: An Alleged Non-Human Caught on Film
>Source: http://www.elcajon.cl/ovniaventura/parquef.htm

Just out for a little stroll, then? And the folks on the horses
(and apparently the horses) didn't see a thing. I guess from now
on it's open season for invisible aliens. The pigeon saw him,
though, and is heading toward the creature to see if he might
have a bread crumb or two.

I don't know. I always imagined aliens as being a bit larger.
Unless these people and horses are HUGE!








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

             Re: Proposal For The UFO Research Coalition - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:31:50 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:58:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Proposal For The UFO Research Coalition - Hall


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:21:30 -0400
>Subject: Proposal For The UFO Research Coalition

>Hello All,

>Dick Hall has put a bean in my ear and it is worthy of follow-up
>and further development. The idea is basically this: If the
>Mexican case passes muster (and it's looking good so far), a
>thorough report on it should go to select Congressmen or
>committees, and a whole bunch of scientists and news media types
>(and not by Stephen Bassett or Dr. Greer. I suggest we bypass
>them and their whole three ring circus. This is too important to
>entrust to either of them.)

>I think I can convince Dick Hall to ask the UFO Research
>Coalition for cooperation and action on this matter. If the
>Research Coalition as a group, can be doing something
>worthwhile, this would be at the top of the list.

>I know they are all hurting for money, but a special fund-
>raising appeal would be in order for this. Don Berliner at FUFOR
>and Larry Landsman at CFI/Podesta-Matoon/Sci-fi Channel can all
>be approached for the necessary funding.

>Dick? Are you up for this? You have worked with Congress and
>congressmen in the past, your knowledge and experience in these
>matters is second to none. Besides, I think that a great many of
>us would feel a lot more confident knowing that you are at the
>helm of this effort.

>Mock congressional hearings? Phooey! I say we go for the real
>thing! Let's see if we can't get _everybody_ involved in making
>this happen.


John & List,

I have suggested to the Coalition that they be prepared, in case
the photoanalysis is positive, to get copies of a report out to
lots of important people.  Two responses indicate that they hope
to get the word out, possibly through a press conference, if all
goes well. Stay tuned. If funds are needed, we may be asking
listers to contribute toward some specific actions.

Congressional hearings remain exceedingly unlikely in these
parlous times without a lot more very compelling hard evidence.
However, members of Congress and staffers can be briefed and can
(if persuaded) conduct some investigations short of hearings and
put the heat on military departments.

Remember, hearings primarily are for the purpose of crafting
legislation. Investigations like the current ones about Iraqui
prisoner abuses by U.S. soldiers are part of Congressional
oversight of existing laws and policies. UFOs, unfortunately,
are not (overtly) related to any oversight responsibilities. It
would take some extraordinary events for Congress to hold
hearings on UFOs.There have only been hearings twice so far, in
1966 and 1968.

I will do whatever I can within my very limited resources.


 - Dick








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 26

                           Filers Files #23 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:10:13 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:10:13 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #23 - 2004


Filers Files #23 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
Vice President of Skywatch International

May 25, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --

If photos don't show up in email, try

www.georgefiler.com/ "Weekly files" Views


UFO Upsurge Coming as Canada Sightings Increase

The following stories are covered in these files: Lord Hill-
Norton, Disclosure Witness Dies 1915-2004 New York =96 Photo of
Orange Headlights, Florida =96 Egg, Ohio =96 Large Disk, Wisconsin
=96 Bright Green Fireball, Missouri =96 Swinging Star, Utah =96 Saucer
UFO Filmed, Arizona - Lights, California - Bright Sphere UFO's
Filmed, Canada =96 Intense UFO Sightings, Puerto Rico =96 UFO Comes
Out of the Sea, Cuba =96 UFO Lands, UFO Crashes In Venezuela?,
United Kingdom =96 Cylinder Filmed, Moon =96 Bright Flash, and
Mexican Air Force FLIR Sees UFO Investigation .


Lord Hill-Norton Dies

Lord Hill-Norton was a five star admiral and the former head of
the British Ministry of Defense who stated, "that there is a
serious possibility that we are being visited and have been
visited for many years by people from outer space from other
civilizations that it behooves those to find out who they are,
where they come from, and what they want. They should be the
subject of regress scientific investigation, and not the subject
of brought dishing by tabloid newspapers." Lord Hill-Norton and
other high ranking general's have told us that they were never
officially briefed on the subject of UFO's.

Nick Pope writes, "I m sorry to have to report that Lord Hill-
Norton died on Sunday, May 18, 2004, aged 89. Admiral of the
Fleet The Lord Hill-Norton G.C.B. was a former Chief of the
Defence Staff and Chairman of the NATO Military Committee, who
in his later years became greatly interested in the UFO
phenomenon. His long and distinguished naval career included
active service on Arctic convoy duty during the Second World
War, command of a destroyer during the Suez Crisis, and a later
posting in command of the aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal.

His interest in UFOs came after his retirement, and he wrote
forewords to a number of Timothy Good's books, including Above
Top Secret and Unearthly Disclosure. He was particularly
interested in the Rendlesham Forest incident, and worked with
Georgina Bruni on this. He asked her to draft some questions
which he subsequently tabled in Parliament, trying to elicit an
official response to what he felt were a number of important
defense and national security issues raised by the events. He
was passionate about the Royal Navy, UFOs and a wide range of
other subjects. When I called on him last summer, I found him as
lively as ever. He had taken an interest in a UFO sighting
involving military witnesses on HMS Manchester and had asked me
to update him. He told me that despite the frustrations, he
intended to remain involved in ufology for as long as he was
able. Lord Hill-Norton appeared in several UFO documentaries and
was often highly critical of the Ministry of Defence's policy on
the UFO phenomenon. He will be sadly missed. Best Wishes, Nick
Pope

Editor's Note - Lord Hill Norton was a great man of courage who
immensely helped the field of Ufology. I'm always saddened when
a fellow Disclosure Project witness dies.


Mars Structure Taken in distance by Rover Opportunity Rover
Oppotunity image thanks to JPL and the Mars_Guy.nul
This may be some part of the Rover capsule, but numerous
unexplained objects are being found on Mars

http://www.lyle.org/mars/updates/color-1083773445.html


New York =96 Photo of Orange Headlights

PINE BUSH -- Vinny Polise writes, "Recently my partner and I
traveled to some of the infamous roads of the lower Hudson
Valley looking for an unusual UFO activity. The weather has
started to become warmer, so sky watchers get ready! On the
night of April 29, 2004, we were on our usual run taking photos
and anticipating something would happen but we did not notice
anything! The whole night my friend took photos right above the
tree line hoping to catch something on film and he did! When I
received the pictures back from the store I scanned through
them all and they all seemed completely blank. With a more
careful look, to my surprise I found a photo with two orange
headlights. Upon enlarging and bringing out the depth along with
its color, I found a possible flying triangle craft that wasn't
seen with our eyes while filming.

I have posted this photo along with its enlargement on the
website. There are hundreds of photos of strange objects over
Pine Bush www.pinebushufo.com and click the =93Updated photos=94
link and your there. The UFO Meetings are still being held every
first Wednesday of each month at 7:00 PM. If you need directions
or have any questions please contact Vinny Polise
Sightings.nul


Florida - Egg

WINTER SPRINGS -- Partly cloudy and sunny afternoon during the
FCATs in beginning of March 7, 2004, Seminole County that were
being given and I had taken two of my high autistic students
outside for a little breather. I am at this point about 15 miles
northwest from Orlando International Airport. I am fairly new to
FL and was looking east at the large birds that fly around the
area and planes going overhead. I would imagine planes are at a
height where it would be about 5-10 minutes before they arc and
land at OIA. I had just seen a plane fly by and not 2 minutes
later I saw a silver egg shaped craft cruising at the same
altitude as the plane that had just passed, (I thought at first
it was another plane). There was no noise, no wings and no trail
behind it. It was going slower than the plane previously, about
15 sec of viewing time. Smaller part of the egg was flying in
front. Didn't notice it until I could see the side and then the
back of it. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com


Ohio =96 Large Disk
Fostoria - George Ritter captured this video of a disc
25 miles from Lake Erie on May 12, 2004, similar to one
reported below.


Lake Erie - Mary reports, "I'm very interested to know if anyone
reported seeing a large disk last October in NE Ohio, about 8:45
PM." It was pretty dark by the time this sighting was over. I
saw white lights flying east to west towards Cuyahoga County
Airport at about the right height and speed for an airplane.
Instead of going down towards the airport, it suddenly veered up
and arced around to the north and sped up. I was on the freeway
(271N) and the lights passed out of my view behind trees. The
freeway arcs around, and I could then see the lights making a
very wide arc NW to N towards Lake Erie. I merged onto 90W and
lost sight of the lights again until I got past the Bishop Road
exit.

Then I saw the lights swoop extremely fast from the north to a
complete stop over Euclid Avenue. a couple of blocks east of the
freeway. It beamed a very strong white beam of light down on a
house. The beam fanned out to light up most of the house. The
bottom of object was only slightly higher than my eye level on
the freeway overpass. The reflected light from the beam lit up
the front and the edges of the craft which was a very large
silver disk. Its width seemed to be the size of a city block.
It's height was about a fifth of its width. There was some sort
of bumps or protrusions on the bottom of it. It turned off its
beam aimed at the house and I couldn't see it any more. I pulled
off at the Euclid Avenue exit but couldn't see the thing any
more when I looked up. E-mail Report


Wisconsin =96 Bright Green Fireball

MILWAUKEE =96 Two witnesses heading east on I94, about 20 miles
from Milwaukee, sighted a bright green fireball. It was probably
a meteorite, but I've never heard of one like this. It descended
moving from the south to north, leaving a green fireball trail
behind descending to the north for about 15 seconds. Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com


Missouri =96 Swinging Star

ST. LOUIS =96 The witness was staying at the Radissson Hotel on
4th Street directly across from the Arch and went out on the
balcony to look and noticed a star-like light that appeared to
be swinging like a lantern. The observer states, "I then focused
on this light and to my surprise it moved closer and continued
it's swinging motion in the sky. it then moved off to the west
at a preposterous speed." It was nothing like an aircraft that I
have ever seen. simply fantastic. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director www.UFOCenter.com

Utah =96 Saucer UFO Filmed

PROVO CANYON -- ABC 4: NEWS reports, "To the naked eye, Tommy
Woodard's digital photograph appears to be nothing more than a
pretty picture of trees in Provo Canyon. But zoom in, he says,
and the purple glow of a saucer hovering at an angle above the
tree line starts to take shape. Woodard, 22, a photo librarian
with the Utah Film Commission, took the photo that he believes
represents an unidentified flying object. He was in the canyon
Tuesday shooting still pictures for a possible film location,
and began taking pictures for himself on his way out. He didn't
see anything out of the ordinary in his photograph. But later,
after noticing a black speck in the frame, he zoomed in and "the
closer I got, the more impressed I got by it," he said Thursday.

"I was kind of skeptical but it's pretty obvious when you zoom
in," said the self-described "sci-fi" fan, whose friends and
colleagues are similarly impressed. Woodard said he's a
"believer" because the recent photograph is not his first
encounter with mysterious flying objects. Once, playing baseball
at the age of 10, he saw three blurry gray spheres rotating in
the sky. Within a moment, they were gone. Thanks to ABC -4

Woodard contacted officials at Hill Air Force Base to ask if any
planes were flying in the canyon area Tuesday but hasn't heard
back yet. "They kind of laughed, you know," he said. Hill Air
Force Base spokeswoman Lt. Caroline Wellman told The Associated
Press on Thursday she is awaiting response from the 388th
Fighter Wing whether any of their F-16 jets were above Provo
Canyon Tuesday. Another skeptical reaction to the digital
photograph came from a representative of the National UFO
Reporting Center in Seattle -- he said thought the sphere looked
like a bird. "A bird?" asked Woodard in disbelief. "Come on -- I
don't know how he could think it's a bird!" Woodard discounted
the theory that the image could be nothing more than a speck of
dust on his film.

Arizona - Lights

ENTERTRPRISE -- A few months ago I reported seeing lights that I
could not explain behind The White Tanks Mountains west of
Phoenix. I never expected to see anything like that again, but
last night on May 6, 2004, myself and three others were riding
our quads behind the mountains in the of the dry Hysampia River
bottom. We were riding and having a ball about 10:00 PM, we were
headed west back toward the trucks and drove over a little hill
and Dennis the lead guy stopped and was waving his arms for us
to stop. We all stopped and saw two sets of lights just ahead of
us over the wash above some corrals. I told them to turn off
their lights and motors. The lights were several thousand feet
up. They were here again and had the same color lights as the
ones we saw before. We drove with our lights off real slow while
the other guys waited not wanting to come. We had gone maybe a
1/4 mile when the flying lights switched off. I could see a
faint outline of something that looked black in kind of a wedge
shape perhaps two. All of a sudden the lights came back on and
this time the ground was lit up under them. We watched this for
several minutes then heard the guys quads start up behind us.
Dennis said he didn't want to be another "Fire In The Sky"
abduction guy. So we headed back to the trucks... we never saw
the lights again. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOCenter.com


California - Bright Sphere UFO's Filmed

CHASWORTH -- On Friday, May 14th 2004, at 4:20 PM ,a courier
I've known for about a year was heading east on the 118 Freeway
just before the 405 South observed a bright light that came out
of the sky on the south side of the Freeway. He said, "It was as
bright as the sun and the sphere like object came down and
stopped just below the tree lines in the distance." He said, "It
hovered and slowly descended. He looked left and right of the
eastbound traffic and no one else seemed to notice it. It was
strange. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com

MODESTO =96 R. David Anderson writes, "This is a view of the UFO
sighting I had during the May 5th weekend." The UFO was moving
slowly from the east and changed directions twice, turning on a
dime. The UFO looks a little like a dumbbell used by body
builders. Thanks to R. David Anderson


Canada =96 Intense UFO Sightings

NORTH VANCOUVER =96 The observers report seeing mysterious lights
every night that it's clear and so far have found about a dozen
that I can see from my window. I get a lot a glare from the city
lights and they are about the brightest lights in the sky. I've
been seeing lights appear and disappear over Seymour Mountain
nearly every night so May 16, 2004, I aimed my camera over
there. I saw a large yellow streak of what looked like fire with
drips coming off the bottom of the flames. It was sort of like
throwing burning gasoline. It appeared just above the summit and
disappeared above the bottom of the ski run. The time was 21:30
still quite a bit of light in the sky. 21:52 - the camera picked
up a white light moving east just over Seymour, I assumed it was
a small plane. Using binoculars and camera I was unable to see
any fuselage behind the light even though it was still fairly
light.

The camera picked up what appeared to be a similar light
approaching Seymour Mountain and the light stopped just above
the summit. I zoomed in with the camera and it looked like those
other mysterious lights. The object began moving slowly eastward
for an hour. At 02:00 =96 I came across what looked like three
stars in a perfect triangle all equal in size and brightness
that looked like luminous slowly pulsing pearls which looked
very pretty.

TRAIL, BRITISH COLUMBIA -- It appears that I have another major
case which is still coming together. On May 19th, 2004, a
prominent member of the community was driving home alone on
Highway 3B going south and noticed that a bright light was
shining through the passenger window at 9:52 p.m.. He states, "I
looked out the window to the sky and saw an amazing huge "craft"
in the shape of a V hovering very low. There were no vehicles
directly behind me so I drove very slowly. There were three
lights on each "wing" of the V rotating rapidly in circles and
creating bright white lights. There was also a very bright light
on the "nose" of this huge craft. Trail had a very bad storm
that evening and one half of the town was without power. Another
witness saw a funnel cloud and when it disappeared she saw a
strange craft. Things even got stranger, when the weather turned
for the worse at the Golf Club the folks who were playing the
rounds were whistled into the Club House and there they watched
the clock moving backwards. Other flying objects were witnessed
that evening also.

SCARBOROUGH, ONTARIO =96 Two witnesses on May 15, 2004, looking
south over Lake Ontario, saw moving lights confined to a fairly
small area at about cloud level. My guess is the lights were
moving about perhaps a few miles off our shoreline, and would
likely have been high enough and far enough over the lake to
also have been visible from the US side of the lake. It had been
an overcast day and the sky at this time was clearing. It wasn't
the nearly dark enough yet to observe any stars. At first I saw
one small pink-red light at cloud level traveling parallel to
the ground and in a straight line moving from east to west at
about the same rate as I'd expect to see planes travel. This
light flashed on and off with a regular rhythm like an aircraft
and was about the same size as an aircraft light seen at such a
distance. It traveled west for five seconds and disappeared.
Suddenly from the very same place in the sky another light
appeared. moving and looking similar and then it disappeared.
This behavior of a flashing light appearing, traveling for a few
seconds across the sky and then disappearing repeated eight
times. It glowed a reddish pink color and without blinking as it
moved. The behavior of the light changed and was now east and
towards the end of the sighting there was more than one light.
Just as one vanished another appeared. The direction of flight
changed to a sweeping arc. There seemed to be a distinct
repetitive pattern to the flight of the light(s). As one light
moved from east to west, arcing at the end of its flight,
another light mirrored that pattern by flying west to east and
then arced upwards at the end. Our impression was that the
lights were chasing each other, as in a dogfight. Planes are not
capable of doing this.

ST-PHILIPPE, QUEBEC -- Two witnesses on May 3, 2004, noticed
their cat was reacting to a slight vibration that made them
notice a flying triangle near the observer's house. The triangle
was very dark in color and silent. Then the garage door started
to open and shut on its own. The wife reports, "I fell asleep in
our bed but my husband found me later on the sofa in the living
room half dressed, and I felt drained of my energy, really weak
and disoriented, and the patio door was open." My husband had a
really difficult time getting out of bed because he was also
disoriented. He doesn't remember anything except that something
prevented him from getting up.

"I have a vague recollection of getting up, being guided by
something, then I felt like I was in some strange dream." Three
hours passed by between getting out of bed and waking up on the
sofa. The day after, still tired and taking a shower, I noticed
something on my arm. When I was a child I had a triangular mark
that had disappeared since then. Now it was back again and it
looked like 3 dark stains and my arm was itching. My husband
felt weak the following days. Like me, he felt like he was under
observation, spied on. Then the sensation went away. I don't
know what happened that night but nothing felt normal. I had the
same experience when I was 5 and living in Texas. It happened a
second time when I was 15. Now I am 29 and it happened again. I
don't know what it is but it's not of this world. Translated
from French into English.

WINNIPEG -- This is a description of seven events over a period
of an hour and each event lasted approximately three seconds and
they were 5 - 10 minutes apart on May 16, 2004. Two observers
were on their deck with a clear sky and all formation sightings
flew from the south to north horizons very, very fast in only
three seconds. The second event was the most spectacular. There
was no sound from any of the events:

1. There were 7 to 8 red lights flying very, very fast in a V-
formation clouded in a mist.
2. Two groups of white lights traveling north. First group ~ 9
lights; second group ~ 6 lights. Much lower than first sighting
and much larger. Lights went from formation to dancing around
each other before dispersing in different directions in the
north.
3. A formation of 5 orange- white lights forming a "V."
4. Formation of 3 lights, red in color.
5. Formation of 4 lights, white in color.
6. Formation of 4 lights, white in color.
7. Formation of 5 lights, white in color.

http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?n

Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Phone 250 845
2189


Cuba - Flying Disc Lands

HAVANA -- In the surroundings of Expocuba, a fairground located
in the capital city municipality of Boyeros, several persons
witnessed the presence of a UFO on May 18, 2004, according to
the Juventud Rebelde newspaper. Residents saw the descent of an
UFO on Saturday, May 8, around 10 AM. A small oval-shaped
vessel, silver-colored and with a metallic tail, landed in an
open field encircled by trees on the El Pedregal farm, located
near Expocuba southeast of Havana. Raul Beltran, 17 states, "I
was tidying the shelves when a bright light came through the
window that was like a glowing ball with a tail in its lower
section." I showed it to my mother quickly and ran outside to
see where it would fall and watched at the site until the UFO
took off once more. "It lifted off rather perpendicularly and
then left through the palm trees." It didn't make any noise nor
issue any smoke. The only thing I'm sure of is its size: more or
less the size of a pickup truck tire. "When my son showed it to
me, I thought it was a kite or a parachutist, since skydivers
drop over Expocuba every so often! After, as it came down, I
realized that it could be nothing of the sort, since it was
smaller and glowed a lot. It looked like a mirror," said Odalis,
Raul Beltran's mother.

Remigio Sanchez, who works as a warehouseman claims having seen
a light in the sky almost at the same time as the other
spectators. "It was a powerful glow in the sky, but it was far
away so I thought it was a flare. Raul's mom -- told me that a
device had landed nearby." According to witnesses the grass and
small plants at the site where the UFO landed are somewhat
burned, although it is true that the current drought at the site
is causing similar things to happen at other nearby locations.
It has not been possible to scientifically confirm the presence
of any UFO anywhere in the world. According to Oscar Alvarez
Pomares, a specialist in the Science Office of the Ministry of
Science, Technology and the Environment: "People want to believe
that other beings exist in the universe, although I am not
saying that what the protagonists of this episode saw was
untrue." Thanks to Prensa Latina May 19, 2004


Puerto Rico =96 UFO Comes Out of the Sea

CABO ROJO -- Late at night on May 5, 2004, Mr. Aguirre, a
fisherman reported seeing "strange lights" entering and leaving
the sea and the cliffs near the famous Cabo Rojo light house in
the southwestern corner of Puerto Rico. It is well known that
UFO skywatches have taken place in the area and some of them
have yielded positive results. Our survey of the site disclosed
that the waters near one of the cliffs showed evidence of what
could be termed remains of spiritual or witchcraft "trabajos"
(artifacts). The height of another cliff gave us pause, perhaps
as well as its magnetism. What is worth pointing out here is
that many people claim having had unusual experiences in the
vicinity of the lighthouse, giving rise to the belief that this
area has intense paranormal activity. It must be made clear that
the light house's beam has been confused with other surrounding
lights, which makes the study of something taking place in the
region even more interesting. One of the strange lights reported
in recent days over the lighthouse, was far above the range of
the light issued from the lighthourse. The object presented
signs of movement and deformation. http://www.reinaldorios.be.tf
Photos credit Prof. Reinaldo Rios Translation (c) 2004. Scott
Corrales, IHU. Special thanks to Jos=E9 Martinez Echevarr=EDa
(Project Argus)


UFO Crashes in Venzuela?

INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology reports that an
unidentified flying object crashed last Saturday, May 15, 2004
northwest of the Raul Leoni Hydroelectric Station, also known as
the Guri Dam, located on the Caroni River some 100 kilometers
from the mouth of the Orinoco River at Puerto Ordaz, Ciudad
Bolivar. The accident was witnessed by workers from Guri Dam in
the early hours Saturday. Stringent security measures were taken
immediately by active members of the National Guard, who
proceeded to cordon off the area. The presence of U.S. personnel
was also observed, a common feature in all crashes involving
UFOs. Thanks to Proyecto Orion


United Kingdom =96 Cylinder Filmed

BRIGHTON -- UFO buzzed my back garden by Brendan Montague. A UFO
captured on film hovering above Brighton is the latest in a
spate of mysterious sightings across the world. Theatre
technician Ben Losh spotted the strange cylindrical object
hanging in the air above his home and rushed to grab his video
camera. He managed to snatch footage of the large grey object as
it drifted towards the golf course near Hollingbury. It is the
second UFO sighting in Brighton in two months - a glowing globe
was spotted near Shoreham airport last month. Ben was alone in
his back garden, having a break from decorating, when he saw the
object. The 32-year-old lives in Woodbourne Avenue with his wife
Vanessa and two-year-old son Lucas. He filmed the sighting as
evidence to show his skeptical wife. Ben said: "There was a long
cylindrical object just hanging in the sky.

"I was watching it for about ten to 15 minutes as it appeared to
float away and come back. "It looked like a huge floating cigar
and was a couple of hundred feet up. "It didn't do any quick
turns or have flashing lights and there were no green men but it
was certainly unidentified. "My wife came home and I was quite
excited - this is the first time I have ever seen a UFO. "I'm a
great fan of science fiction but I do have my feet firmly on the
ground. "I have always wanted to see a UFO but never thought I
would. "I am sure this is something we can explain but I hope
not." Vanessa, 32, who works for American Express in Brighton,
said: "Ben has never claimed to have seen a UFO before and he's
not a crackpot. "I don't know if it was a UFO but I have seen
the video and it does look a bit odd."

A spokeswoman for the Ministry of Defence said: "We do not
investigate UFOs so I am not aware of what Mr Losh could have
seen. "We used to investigate UFOs many years ago in the
interests of national security and never found anything that
could not be explained." The sighting comes weeks after alien
enthusiast Brian Barnes spotted a UFO from his Bevendean home.
The 62-year-old filmed the object as it hung in the sky above
Shoreham airport and reported the incident to the police and
coastguards. Ben's claims come as increasing numbers of UFO
sightings are reported across the world. Video footage recorded
by the Mexican air force showing 11 shining objects picked up by
radar was released on Tuesday last week. A number of sightings
were reported in the Iranian capital Tehran during the last few
days of April. State television broadcast video images of a
sparkling white disc and other UFOs have been reported in cities
to the north. Ben, who has been joking with friends about his
experience, said: "The fact there have been so many sightings
around the world makes me look slightly less mad." Thanks to the
Skywatch International Inc. website! http://www.skywatch-
international.org

Moon =96 Bright Flash

CRATER POSIDONUS-- On May 1, 2004, the observer who lives in
Bremerton Washington states, "We observed a bright white flash
on the moon in the upper/mid Mare Serenitatis region, west of
Crater Posidonus about 7:24 PM Pacific Standard time." The light
was perceived as larger than Venus appears. It was a quick flash
like white, intense lightning. I'm not sure how to report
degrees of arc, but if the face we see is 90, and we start from
the east then the flash occurred about 225 arc seconds to the
west. This was observed by the naked eye, with clear skies
between us and the moon. Thanks to Francis Ridge Coordinator,
The Lunascan Project

Mexican Air Force Sees UFO on FLIR

Kim Shaffer writes, "In all the conjecture and debunking
attempts concerning the Mexican foreward looking infra red
"FLIR" that tracked UFO's on March 5 over Campachee. "FLIR" is a
piece of equipment with a lens aperture which collects thermal
images. The "FL" in FLIR. It simply means what it says," forward
looking". Everything on this Earth, unless it is frozen at
absolute zero degrees, has an "IR" or thermal signature. The
higher the thermal signature( the hotter the object) the
brighter the thermal image seen on the IR device or in this
case, seen on film. Humans cannot see infrared , as it is beyond
our range of vision.

The debunkers claim the objects as weather balloons. Helium is
what makes weather balloons rise. Helium is not hot. The
objects, IF they were weather balloons, would be invisible to
the "FLIR" device, being the same temperature as the rest of the
sky.

One scientist claimed the objects were gas pockets. Gaseous
anomalies may well occur in space where there is nothing acting
on the "gas".. Gas would simply dissipate and not form objects
that appear as solid in our turbulent atmosphere. Again, gas
clouds do not give off a thermal signature which these objects
did. If these anomalies were "gas" and were obviously hot, why
were they not rising as hot gas would do?? They never rose above
11,000 feet.

Another scientist claimed it was ball lightning.

I remember an incident which happened at Fort Stewart Georgia
when I participated in "war games" and was using an infrared
night vision device. I was looking thru the device at an
approaching armored assault, when a lightning strike hit miles
away. I was blinded in that eye for maybe an hour and thought I
had ruined my eye. This is what lightning will do to a IR" or a
FLIR device. This lighting heat or thermal energy would be tens
of thousands of degrees would completely "wash out" the image on
such a device. The sighting lasted for over fifteen minutes,
ball lightning is usually measured in seconds.

Lastly, we are discussing a calibrated piece of optical
equipment. The FLIR was designed to "see" aircraft engine
thermal energy in the hundreds of degrees Fahrenheit. Why can we
not see to it that the designers and manufacturers of this
device are given the video which , when analyzed, will give them
real "thermal values" from the image. Only they would have this
information and no one is asking for it.

This is the best evidence to have been given to us in some time
so why don't we take advantage of it and follow through, contact
FLIR and ask for a thermal analysis of the clip. Kim A.Shaffer ,
State Director, MUFON TN (EAST)

HELP KEEP THESE FILES COMING

Dear Readers - Filer=92s Files has been brought to you free on a
weekly basis for seven years. As of January 2004, I have been
requesting a donation of $24 per year to enable continuation of
Filer=92s Files. These files cannot exist without your help.
Donations can be sent to:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for

majorstar.nul

You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master Charge.
You can also mail your check to:

George Filer,
222 Jackson Road,
Medford,
NJ 08055

Many Thanks for your donations

New Mars CD showing dozens of images at much higher quality than
available on Internet for $25. Just contact us at the above
address.


WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE!

Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real
estate agent to help your buy or sell a home. To get a free copy
of this report e-mail me at : Majorstar.nul



FREE RELOCATION SERVICE FOR OUR READERS

If your thinking of moving or buying or selling a home anywhere
in the United States. Let my wife and I help you. Many of the
largest companies use our service. Just contact us at:
Majorstrar.nul


MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul "The MUFON
Journal is now accepting qualified advertising, please call 1
(303) 932-7709 for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.


Regards,

George A. Filer
www.GeorgeFiler.com/







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:04:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:12:12 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Groff


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:29:19 -0400
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:05:56 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:17:26 +1000
>>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

<snip>

>>>I am not at all saying the objects are balloons. i.e. the
>>>helium filled weather balloon type. These of cause, would not
>>>show up on infrared as the Mexico objects do.

>>>What I am suggesting is, that the objects are showing to be very
>>>hot, hence the footage as seen.

>>We have to be careful about characterizing the temperatures as
>>_very_ hot. As Bruce Maccabee has pointed out in another post,
>>FLIR is not a radiometer and is designed to enhance and
>>intensify images via their heat signatures. It will be difficult
>>to determine the range of temperatures of these objects via FLIR
>>alone.

>Wasn't me that said that Terry. Barry I guess.

>FLIR can be used to see body heat [obviously not very hot]
>however it has to be carefully "tuned" to see the intended
>target against the background heat [clutter] ie the ground,
>trees, buildings etc. It works best at night, naturally, when
>that background heat has dissipated somewhat.

Yes Don. It was Barry. Sorry 'bout that.

Perhaps the temperature can be determined by correlating the
intensity of the object with the heat signatures of the
surrounding clouds. At least it might be possible to get a
relative temperature in which case using "very hot" would be
appropriate. I'm sure Mr. Maccabee is attempting something of
this nature as we speak


Terry Groff
Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas
from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and
refracted the light from Venus" - Agent "K"








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

             Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:50:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:14:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Lehmberg


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:29:19 -0400
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:05:56 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

<snip>

>FLIR can be used to see body heat [obviously not very hot]
>however it has to be carefully "tuned" to see the intended
>target against the background heat [clutter] ie the ground,
>trees, buildings etc. It works best at night, naturally, when
>that background heat has dissipated somewhat.

...Regarding the FLIR footage, I've sent Errol a snippet of a
conversation between Art Bell and Michio Kaku where Kaku reports
seeing objects fly beyond an expected aerodynamics envelope...
during that sighting.  Is anybody seeing anything like that in
the footage they have?


alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net
...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

              Re: Stellar Blast Draws Meteor Hunters - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:56:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:18:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Stellar Blast Draws Meteor Hunters - Stanford


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:18:34 -0700
>Subject: Stellar Blast Draws Meteor Hunters

>Source: The Montrose Press - Colorado

>http://www.montrosepress.com/articles/2004/05/25/local_news/1.txt

>5-26-04

>Stellar blast draws meteor hunters

>Mike Robuck

>MONTROSE - Fallout from the meteor early Friday morning
>continues.

>A meteor exploded in the sky somewhere between Colona and
>Montrose at 2:44 a.m. Friday, which prompted Mike Farmer and a
>few friends to drive 14 hours from Tucson, Ariz., to look for
>pieces of the meteor.

>"I've been to places all over the world looking for meteors;
>India, Oman, Chili," Farmer said. "I was in Spain last month.
>I'm a meteorite hunter; I buy and sell the pieces to
>universities, colleges and museums from all over the world. If
>we find them, pieces of this meteor could end up in museums all
>over the world."

>A digital camera on top of Montrose High School caught Friday's
>meteor as it raced across the sky from the south before
>exploding. The MHS camera is one of 11 set up around the state
>as part of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science's All-Sky
>network. A meteor also exploded over the Black Canyon area in
>2002, but Laura Hamilton, the Denver Museum's public relations
>manager, said Friday's meteor was the brightest one yet to be
>picked up by the program's All-Sky cameras.

>Initially, it was thought the meteor broke up directly over
>Montrose, but with a strong wind that night Farmer suspects the
>fragments may have been blown northeast of town.

>Farmer said finding pieces of the meteor can be like "finding
>$100 bills."

<snip>

>The fragments will be black with a smooth exterior.

Wait a minute, if you're going out to search for that meteorite
(or others), that the statement is generally true, but not
exclusively true. For example, aubritic meteorites (a relatively
rare and expensive type) often have a fusion crust that is light
tan, like the interior, but more translucent and more glassy
looking than the interior.

Further more, and for example, a very rare and scientifically as
well as financially valuable type, lunar meteorites (material
that was knocked up from the moon by cosmic impacts and which
eventually fell to earth), often have a fusion crust closely
akin in color to the interior (usually a combination of gray,
black, white, or, more rarely, with added tones of even red,
golden, or brown), but often a little bit darker than the
interior. Also, the fusion crust on some lunar meteorites is a
bit vuggy (containing small bubbles) due to ablational heat
liberating volatiles absorbed into the surface of the pre-entry
meteoroid from solar wind during its usually long pre-
terrestrial journey in space and after impact-liberation from
the moon. Of course, the volatiles were precipitated as bubbles
within the ablation melt only while it was hot and liquid,
although pre-existing in the meteoroid's surface in a more
diffused form, before entering the earth's atmosphere at cosmic
speed.

>Farmer said
>the inside is always a different color than the exterior.

So we see that the statement is not the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, but some meteorite dealers might
choose to propagate that fiction in hopes of assuring that
others to not spot the rarest of meteorites (that have 'self'
colored fusion crusts), should any be in the search area. I'm
not saying that is what Mike is doing, because knowing him, I
suspect he is just generalizing for media consumption, knowing
they have no tolerance for details (whether it be meteorites or
UFO they are covering).

>The more common meteors are 98 percent stone with a little nickel
>and iron in them while the more rare ones are comprised of solid
>steel.

In this case, use of the word rare should not be taken to imply
any extraordinary scientific or financial values. It's just that
nickel-iron meteorites fall far less often than stony
meteorites, although sometimes in a very large fall, such as the
Sikhote-Alin fall of 1947, in the maritime province of the then
Soviet Union.

I wouldn't call nickel-iron "steel" either, but if even a small
one should fall on one's head, one might at first think so, if
one survives. :)

<snip>

>Mike Jensen, who owns Jensen Meteorites in Aurora, Colo., with
>his brother, Bill, said if anyone finds a piece of the meteorite
>they should avoid touching it with their hands because finger-
>residue will contaminate them.

Pretty good advice, especially is it should be a very rare
and/or highly friable (and chemically absorptive) type, like the
famous carbonaceous chondrite, Orgueil, that fell May 14, 1864,
in France.

So, to those of you in the Colorado area, get out and find some
of that supposed meteorite. Heck, it's at least second best to
finding a UFO crashed. :)

And, hey, if you do find what you suspect is a meteorite, send
me an image and I can possibly tell you for certain, if you have
any doubt about what it might be. I can also tell you the safest
meteorite research center(s) to send part of it for analysis.

Can one look up for UFOs while looking down for meteorites? I
doubt it, but if I were in Colorado, I know which choice I'd
make just now.  :)

But I suspect the data on the linked website might be a bit off
about the area where any meteorite(s) from the observed meteor
might have landed.


Ray Stanford








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                 Re: Big UFO Disclosures Due Soon By Foreign

From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:08:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:20:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Big UFO Disclosures Due Soon By Foreign


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 05:16:24 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Big UFO Disclosures Due Soon By Foreign Powers?

>Just heard Quayle and Co on C2C.

>They mentioned something I had heard about quite some time ago.
>Sort of fits the growing pattern.

>What they brought up was how the Mexican government's
>unprecedented disclosure may be part of an ongoing series of
>disclosures regarding UFO data from foreign powers.

Which powers? Certainly not the UK , US, Iraq or Afghanistan.
Nor India, Pakistan, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, or any others that come
to mind.

>The impetus is a 'show up' to the U.S. and U.K. for not
>disclosing UFO data.

>The next several months are going to be quite interesting with
>the Olympics coming up, election coming up and a new terrorist
>threat warning.

We have had the Olympics since 1896 and both US and UK have had
elections since long before then. But take heart - there are
European elections soon. We might, just might, get some UFO
disclosures from the European Commission. You never know what
surprises to expect from the EC. Keep those fingers crossed!


CDA








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

              Re: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:18:43 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:23:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming -


>From: Paul Anderson <cccrnnews.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:13:14 -0700
>Subject: CCCRN News: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming

>CCCRN NEWS
>E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

>May 25, 2004

>http://www.cccrn.ca

>_____________________________


>NEW @ BLT: EYEWITNESS REPORT OF A CROP CIRCLE FORMING IN POLAND

>In 2003 Nancy Talbott (BLT Research Team Inc.) had the
>opportunity to visit Wylatowo, Poland and carry out fieldwork
>there in conjunction with people from the Nautilus Foundation
>and with the help of a British team-mate, Dan Lobb. Among other
>interesting events recorded there was a spectacular eyewitness
>account of a crop circle forming in 2000 involving a complex
>aerial object settling down in a field in which, the following
>morning, a crop circle was found - the design of which closely
>resembled the visually-perceived object of the night before.

>This is the first time, to our knowledge, that the action of a
>complex aerial object has resulted in the production of a crop
>circle whose design mimicked the object itself.

Hi Paul! Hi Everyone!

It may not really be the first. Since the witness to the alleged
aerial object was not interviewed by Nancy, her team-mate or the
people from the Nautilus Foundation until well after the crop
circle was found which allegedly resembled the visually-
perceived aerial object. A connection between the two cannot be
established simply by taking the word of the single nice Polish
witness. Nancy and other crop circle researchers must provide
harder evidence than this to convince scientists - or even a
jury!

>Additionally, the design produced (I have been told by several
>Poles that it is called a "Polish Cross") was both replicated
>and/or elaborated upon in the years following... and not only in
>fields. A fisherman, in another area of Poland altogether,
>caught a carp with the same design embedded into both sides of
>its body in a totally unexplicable manner.

Were there others who saw this Polish fisherman catch this carp
with the "Polish Cross" design embedded into both sides of its
body? The marks on this flattened dead fish could easily have
been made if it were pressed against with an ornate pattern,
possibly even a Polish BBQ grill! Although this fish has little
to do with UFOs or crop circles, it does tell us that the symbol
of the Polish Cross has unique religious or cultural
significance to Poles and local hoaxers may create crop circles
with such patterns to make them more mysterious to the curious
who come to see them.

>To read the full report, with excellent photos, go to
>www.bltresearch.com and click on either "Updates" or "Eyewitness
>Reports."

>Another BLT report of an eyewitness to a UFO landing in Golabki,
>Poland, with recovered physical evidence and analyses which
>prove the presence of intense heat having been present has also
>been issued and is available at:

>http://www.rense.com/general49/blt.htm

Where is this recovered physical evidence and analyses? Not only
does the analysis presented not support the claim that there was
intense heat present but the words "hot" and "heat" do not
appear anywhere in the text of the report! Lots of close-up
pictures of a rock and scientific plots and diagrams are pretty
but fail to prove anything unusual about this case! Like
ufology, it may have been a slow year for crop circle
researchers too but that is no excuse for presenting cases under
the illusion that scientific analysis proves their conclusions
that the soil was vitrified. It doesn't in this particular case
or shows anything other than the ordinary.

Even if nothing has ever been scientifically proven or shown to
be true beyond a reasonable doubt for a UFO/ET connection to
crop circles, it is nice to know that there are researchers like
Nancy who will travel all around the globe to keep us informed
on new mysterious cases. If we never become enlightened as to
the actual mechanisms or persons involved that create crop
circles, at least we can look forward to ever more elaborate and
beautiful patterns in the future.


Nick Balaskas








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                  Re: More Snobbish UFO Press Stuff - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:45:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:25:22 -0400
Subject: Re: More Snobbish UFO Press Stuff - Myers


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:40:58 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: More Snobbish UFO Press Stuff

>http://www.reporter-news.com/abil/fe_columns/article/0,1874,ABIL_7923_2914121,0
0.html

>Short but nevertheless 'barb-ish' reporter's response to a
>citizen's inquiry about the origin of the term 'Close
>Encounters'.

>Doug Williamson is the reporter and instead of just giving the
>citizen the answer, he just couldn't resist the condescending
>barb here and there.

>With the newsroom scandals of late and the common response from
>the authorities and news services themselves being, " An
>atmosphere of fear and intimi- -dation leading to compromises in
>ethics ", or some such nonsense, it's no wonder witnesses are
>hesitant to come forward.

>What if the public responded to the press the way the press
>treats us?


I see the author failed to mention that Dr.Hynek founded CUFOS....


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                      Re: The British UFO Files - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:52:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:28:01 -0400
Subject: Re: The British UFO Files - Pope


List,

Channel Five have just shown a new UFO documentary, entitled The
British UFO Files. As you would expect from the title, the show
featured a number of the UK's most intriguing UFO incidents, and
also looked at the way in which they were investigated by the
Ministry of Defence.

The documentary started by looking at claims that the Nazis had
been working on circular craft with exotic propulsion systems,
and that this technology was subsequently used in the
development of various aeronautical projects. Kevin McClure and
Mark Birdsall, editor of Eye Spy Magazine, spoke about these
claims. There was reference to foo fighters, Project Blue Book
and the setting up of the Flying Saucer Working Party in 1950.
This latter item was part of a wider theme running through the
documentary, examining the government's policy on UFOs, and its
handling of investigations. I was interviewed about this, and my
comments were used extensively, throughout the show.

The 1952 sighting involving RAF pilot Michael Swiney and his
Royal Navy student David Crofts was featured, and formed a major
part of the documentary, with both witnesses being interviewed.
Interest expressed by the Duke of Edinburgh and Earl Mountbatten
was covered, and Lady Pamela Hicks (Mountbatten's daughter) gave
an interesting account of how the alleged landing of a UFO at
Broadlands in 1955 was apparently made up by a man who was late
for work, and used the excuse of a UFO encounter to explain his
absence, playing on Mountbatten's well-known interest in the
subject.  Also covered was the extraordinary account of royal
equerry Sir Peter Horsley's meeting with a mysterious individual
called Mr Janus, who appeared to be able to read his mind, and
knew all Britain's nuclear secrets.

There was discussion of the 'Charlton Crater' case from 1963,
when Army bomb disposal experts investigated a site where a UFO
was thought to have crashed or landed. And of course no British
UFO documentary would be complete without mention of Winston
Churchill's 1952 memo on UFOs, and a look at the Rendlesham
Forest incident, with comments from Charles Halt and Georgina
Bruni.

Former Chief of the Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton, who died on
16 May, had been interviewed, and appeared a number of times,
commenting on the Duke of Edinburgh's interest, Sir Peter
Horsley's story and the Rendlesham Forest incident.

In terms of content, The British UFO Files covered a lot of the
same ground as the Timewatch documentary shown in January. In
fact, both shows were made at the same time last year. The style
of the two programmes was very different, however, reflecting
the differences between BBC2 and Channel Five audience
demographics.

I had no formal consultancy arrangement with the makers of The
British UFO Files, as I've seen reported somewhere. However, as
was the case with Timewatch, I gave the producers some
background information about the MOD's UFO project, and provided
them with copies of various declassified documents.

In conclusion, I thought The British UFO Files was a good show,
although there was little that would have been new to ufologists
here in the UK. However, these documentaries are aimed at a far
wider audience, so if the show raises awareness of the subject
and encourages more people to take an interest, this can only be
a good thing for ufology. I hope that list members outside the
UK get a chance to see both The British UFO Files and the
Timewatch UFO documentary, as you may be less familiar with some
of the featured material.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

             Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 00:23:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:31:24 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela? -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:58:56 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Crash Along The Orinoco River Venezuela?

>You bring up an interesting point about the photon. Since we
>don't know the why and the how of photons, just the perceived
>end result, then it's possible that photons could be
>manipulated. Since that leads to a whole other can of worms and
>speculation I won't go further than to suggest that on certain,
>or possibly nearly all occassions, what we see might be what we
>are meant to see-or not. Or on the flipside what our own brain
>sees as opposed to another's brain when observing the same
>object.

Thanks, Don, Ron, Terry and all, your response is cheering,
proving that pompous bureaucrats, scientists, media-men haven't
stopped us thinking for ourselves.

Googled a 'science' definition of the photon (after sending that
mail).

First non-commercial was:

http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/photons.html

beginning:


"Photons, also called light quantum, are minute energy packets
of electromagnetic radiation."


[which is almost like saying 'a gallon of gasoline is a minute
packet of "driving"' or 'botany is a unit of "salad"]

and ending:


"they are field particles that are thought to be the carriers of
the electromagnetic field."


[Don't want to carp but photons are not particles, and 'e.m
field' is not carried but generated at each wave-period.]

What's certain is - 'science' is not certain of anything.*

The photon is humanity's only real** contact with the universe,
and the state-of-the-art seems to be:

1) 'scientists' can't be sure what they _are_ observing;

2) 'scientists' can't be sure what they're _not_ observing.

Humbling isn't it?

Ever hear a humble bureaucrat / scientist / media-man on the
subject of UFO reports?


* 'blind science' in Google
** Sir James Jeans - quoted in previous mail


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                    Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:58:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:34:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:54:15 +0100
>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:29:21 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:42:31 +0100
>>>Subject: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>This is the 50th Magonia Supplement, and is a special issue
>>>featuring the case of:

>>>The Downfall Of Corporal Valdes

>>>by Diego Zuniga, the editor in chief of the Chilean ufological
>>>bulletin La Nave de los Locos :

>>>http://www.lanavedeloslocos.cl

>>>Eight soldiers in the north of Chile see two small lights. The
>>>corporal in charge of the group disappears, to later return
>>>speaking incoherent words. This is the plot of the Valdes
>>>Case.

>><snip>

>>>Read the full account at:

>>>http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms50.htm

>>...Hang on, Mr. Rimmer, though I suspect you're too smart a man
>>to fail to perceive that reality slipping away from you - feel
>>it crawling beneath the fingers of a weakening hand.

>I'm afraid that I'm not so smart a man that I've got the
>faintest idea what you're going on about.

...Sorry to have missed this, Mr. Rimmer, this too convenient
and arbitrary bit of assumed cluelessness... but I can hardly be
surprised. I should have remembered that along with George
Walker Bush, it's pelicanists, too, who "don't do nuance."  I
suspect you know exactly what I'm "on about", sir. It's an easy
dodge to feign a contrived lack of understanding... moreover, it
may lack a certain 'heroic' quality, nest ce pas?


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                        Parallel Double Meteor Trails

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:08:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:42:18 -0400
Subject: Parallel Double Meteor Trails


Forwarding permission was given by William R. Corliss.

Source: Science Frontiers, No. 153, May-Jun, 2004, pp. 1 & 2

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf153/index.htm


ASTRONOMY

Parallel double meteor trails

Meteor-watchers, of which there are quite a few, report fairly
often observations of doubled meteor trails shining bright in
the night sky. Like aircraft contrails, these neatly parallel
streaks are eventually twisted and contorted by the winds of the
upper atmosphere. The Leonids are famous for producing a loose
tapestry of bright trails containing a few doublets.

Astronomers doubt that the pairs of parallel trails are traced
out by split meteors plunging side-by-side through the
increasingly dense air. If meteor break-up were the cause, they
would also expect to see a few triple or even higher-order
parallel trails. They don't

The preferred explanation of double trails assumes that a single
meteor leaves a hollow tube of glowing debris. A "limb effect"
makes the tube's edges brighter than its center.

In Geophysical Research Letters, M.C. Kelley et al assert that
the brightness contrast between the edges of the putative tube
and its center is too great for the limb-effect explanation.

Their solution:

...one train is due to excited gas from the meteor and the
other, lying below the first, comes from dust sedimenting under
gravity.

(Ball, Philip; "Parallel Lines," *Nature*, 426:784, 2003)

Comment. If the components of the twin trails have different
physical causes, wouldn't the parallelism disappear more quickly
than is observed--- especially in long sinuous double trails? In
other words, the upper gas trail would be affected very
differently than the lower dust trail---and quickly.


[Science Frontiers is a bimonthly collection of digests of
scientific anomalies in the current literature. Published by the
Sourcebook Project, P.O. Box 107, Glen Arm, MD 21057. Annual
subscription: $8.00.]


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                       UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:07:12 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:49:28 -0400
Subject: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?


Hello All,

I hope you can find the following information interesting and
useful:

UFO investigators must examine all the available evidence to
reduce the risk of culminating a case without some extra
valuable information.

What are those lights in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video?
Mexican Air Force Video lights are real UFOs or simply Oil Well
flames? Did you know about the Oil Well Field called CANTARELL
in the Gulf of Mexico exactly in front of Ciudad del Carmen and
not to far from the sea shore?

-Cantarell Oil Field-
Cantarell Field or Cantarell Complex is the largest oil field in
Mexico, located 80 kilometers offshore in the Bay of Campeche.
This field comprises four major fields Akal, Nohoch, Chac, Kutz
and the recently discovered Sihil. The first field was
discovered in 1976, then known as Cantarell complex in 1996.

See: http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/campech.gif

The lights (UFO's) shown in the video of march 05, 2004 provided
by the Mexican Air Force could be the heat source produced by
the flames of the oil wells located in the Oil field Cantarell
between 50 km to 90 km in the Gulf of Mexico, very close to the
shores of Ciudad del Carmen city in the Campeche's State and
within the range of the C26A FLIR camera at the moment of the
strange sighting.

I remember one crew member, I don't recall who he was but in
some part of the in-flight communications tells the others that
the "object" is two miles and then one mile ahead (one o'clock)
the airplane and then he said it was over the city ofr Ciudad
del Carmen. By that the airplane was heading to the Northwest
where at the bottom this Oil Wells are located.

There are in the Cantarell Oil Field 214 oil wells in 9
platforms from 184 that PEMEX (Mexican Oil Company) has in the
Gulf of Mexico.

I used to fly as a private pilot in the area of Ciudad del
Carmen in the late 70's. I remember very well seeing those oil
wells at night from the shore and their close proximity to
Ciudad del Carmen city. I Also can remember the IXTOC1 oil well
that burned out of control for ten months.

Is there a possibility that the continuos flame in the offshore
Oil Wells "platform flames" (passive fire) could have been
mistaken as the lights (UFO's) that we have seen in the now
famous Mexican Air Force FLIR video?

Is it possible that the FLIR camera was not handled in the
appropriate brightness control? I must remark that the FLIR
equipment was used in daylight and maybe because of that the
heat sensors detected the oil well's flames causing the infrared
focal plane array (IRFPA) to work improperly? Or maybe was out
of range and by that out of focus and the images are shown
blurred or as in an excess of zooming?

Regarding the presence of this numerous oil wells that have
their burners always with flames (passive fire) to burn the
excess of gas in the platforms I saw the UFO video many times
and noticed the following coincidences that will provide new
data to this case and I hope you'll find this data useful. I'll
appreciate whatever you have to say on this information I've
recollected for the last 13 days. This information was gathered
with honesty and I hope it'll help solve this outrageous case

If any of you have not seen the Mexican Air Force UFO Video you
can download it at:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/specialfeatures/mexicanairforce/mexicanAFvideos.htm

Please take your time to watch the video carefully and I hope
you also will notice what I discovered some days ago about the
Cantarell oil field in the Campeche Bay located in the Gulf of
Mexico, I insist, precisely in front of Ciudad del Carmen City
from which the oil wells are not to far away (50 to 90 Km from
the shore.)

The objects (lights) are in a fixed position with a dark
background (the sea) while the camera on board is following the
lights that are showing in the screen as a very brilliant source
of light. There is a great distortion as there is no sign of an
object but only light. Take your time and repeat the video. Try
to focus as if the lights are STEADY and the camera movements
shows when turning in his axis that the clouds move sometimes
rapidly and then suddenly they stop moving while the lights
(UFO's) never changed their formation neither their speed.

If you take your time you will see the fact that the lights are
always steady if we repeat the scene and see at the very bottom
of the FLIR screen that the AZIMUTH (Az) NEVER CHANGES more than
TWO or FOUR degrees.

The FLIR was working at that moment in the DAY screening mode as
you can see in the upper white strip of the video's screen.

Ciudad del Carmen's map (PDF format) with Cantarell Oil Field
wells location provided by PEMEX (the Mexican Oil industry):

http://www.pemex.com/files/dcf/jose_carrera.pdf

Maybe you'll like to see a map screen capture:

http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/campech.gif

You'll need Adobe Acrobat reader to view PDF format archives
Download here:

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/main.html

See the C26A Merlin Mexican Air Force relative position in a
Campeche's map (not in scale):

http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/campech0.gif

Note: Azimuth is the direction, in degrees in which to fly. It
is shown in the lower white section of the screen the
coordinates an the negative number (-137.4Az). That means the
objective of the camera is pointed to the opposite direction,
that is 317.4 or NORTHWEST so the airplane is SOUTHEAST from
Ciudad del Carmen as the coordinates are shown in the FLIR's
screen: LAT. 18 26.56' LONG. 90 46.22'

See: http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/campech0.gif

About the movement of the clouds and lights in the video:

While the airplane is moving the clouds also move but sometimes
they don't, that's when the FLIR's operator focuses on the
lights and then the clouds stop their movement in the screen and
sometimes they move at the same speed as the lights (parallel to
the airplanes movement). That is because the lights are coming
from steady Oil Platform flames (passive fire) located in the
Gulf of Mexico between 50 and 90 Km from Ciudad del Carmen City
where the objects, at least one light as the FLIR or RADAR
operator tells is exactly over Ciudad del Carmen city (one
o'clock).

The Star Safire II's FLIR can detect HOT SPOTS at a great
distance (50 NM) where the human eye can't see any spot or
temperature source. (Maybe that's why the C26A crew couldn't see
nothing with the naked eye).

Watch the clouds very carefully and see how they move sometimes
at the same speed as the lights while some of them are left
behind the camera lenses, but when the FLIR's operator focuses
the camera (sensor) on the lights as the airplane moves the
clouds stop moving. And that corresponds to a moving object
effect (C 26A airplane) and the moving camera (FLIR) rotating
(panning) in his axis at the same time.

So if you focus your attention in the lights movement regarding
the space between the clouds and the lights, in first plane
(closer to the camera lens as the clouds move in second plane
seem to be steady above the objects).

In the in-flight conversation (not an official phraseology as
the military) the crew members told that they were chased by the
objects but as I can remember the lights never changed in speed,
separation or any sharp turns were made nor any change in their
speed and track.

I think there is an optical effect and by that a distortion of
the reality that make the lights to appear as if they were
flying while they are steady flames coming from the source of
heat that are generated by the Oil Well flames. Remember, there
are 214 wells in 9 platforms from 184 that PEMEX has installed
in the Gulf of Mexico. Most of them are in front of Ciudad del
Carmen city were this now famous sighting was recorded.

Oil wells names and location reference data:

http://www.alcione.org/fraudes/fam/reference_data.html

This investigation will continue.


Best regards to all,

Capt. Alejandro Franz
director.nul
www.alcione.org
(non-profit)

_______________





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                 Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 00:11:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Maccabee


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:42:58 -0400
>Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show

>>From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:38:40 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show

<snip>

>>Funny you should mention it, I do remember this show as a kid
>>too and was wondering what the name was.....

>>Now I know. Ah the memories, I think we need something like this
>>again.

>Only if one is a 'pelican' (UFO debunker)! That show was
>designed by air force intelligence to put down the UFO subject,
>and episodes were designed to start out having each report look
>good and very mysterious, and them to 'demolish' it at the end.

>How do I know? Well for one, I watched quite a few episodes and
>that was clearly the scheme.

I second Ray on this. I, too watched the show, maybe all the
episodes, I don't recall. It seems tor me that there were only
one, or maybe two, which resulted in a question mark at the end.

By far most of them "solved" the UFO sighting.

The episodes were supposedly based on Blue Book cases. However,
liberal use was made of artistic license.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                       End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 02:42:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:57:24 -0400
Subject: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?


Hello all:

I just added another page to my *U* Database website.

http://www.larryhatch.net/MONTHCNT.html

Its none too spectacular, just a bar chart of monthly sightings
counts for all-time, combined. Its fast loading, please take a
look at least.

What's interesting is the distribution of sightings over the
seasons. Sightings counts range from about 1100-1200 for the
first 6 months of the year, right up to June (1206)... then
Blammo!

July skyrockets to almost 2200, and it tapers off after that
until December which is about 1100 again.

Out of 18,200 sightings total in the database, this has to be
statistically significant, but I don't see any special reason
for it.

I could posit a smoothly increasing curve as we approach the
warmer months, longer days etc., with people outdoors a lot
more. But, no. Its almost as if people are saving up their
fireworks for July and have some left over thru November.

Any ideas? Has anyone else noticed this?


Best

- Larry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                              Change The World?

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:15:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:52:39 -0400
Subject: Change The World?



From: Roy Hale < roy.nul >
Subject: Change The World?

List,

I received an eight page document today, and have posted it to my site:

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/ChangeTheWorld.htm



Roy







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                 Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:29:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:54:54 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Hale


>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:07:12 -0600
>Subject: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>UFO investigators must examine all the available evidence to
>reduce the risk of culminating a case without some extra
>valuable information.

>What are those lights in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video?
>Mexican Air Force Video lights are real UFOs or simply Oil Well
>flames? Did you know about the Oil Well Field called CANTARELL
>in the Gulf of Mexico exactly in front of Ciudad del Carmen and
>not to far from the sea shore?


Dear List,

I would go even further than the above line of  identification.

I think the fast moving interchanging lights, were seagulls
covered in some kind of light oil, and obviously on fire, they
were going fast so they can put the flames out, it was pity the
Mexican Air Force crew were not trained enough to simply spot
this before putting the video out.

I do understand that the Mexico Air Force may be considering
sending their pilots to a shed in the Shetlands, so they can
gather some bird skills, just in case an event like the above
ever happens again!


Roy








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                     UFO Encounter In San Juan Bautista

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 06:34:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:56:36 -0400
Subject: UFO Encounter In San Juan Bautista


Source: Profind Pages

http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/27/MN129.htm

05-27-04


UFO Encounter In San Juan Bautista

Jorge Villasana's latest report recalls his Uncle's encounter
with a UFO in San Juan Bautista.

Unfortunately, Jorge missed the sighting himself by just a few
hours.

The report explains the sighting, a buzzing noise and a rumbling
that was similar to an Earthquake (the house his Uncle lives in
sits on top of the San Andreas Fault!)

In 1978, I recall my uncle Mondo telling me a story about a UFO
encounter in the old San Juan Bautista house. I arrived on
Saturday morning to visit so I missed the event from the
previous night.

My uncle was so excited when we met that morning, he didn't know
where to start his story. Mondo said that much of Friday
evening, there seemed to be a strong buzzing noise coming from
behind the neighbor's big house across the street. It felt
almost like a rumbling type of disturbance but not quite.
Remember that our neighbor's house lies right on top of the San
Andreas Fault.

That Friday evening my parents and uncle were the only ones in
the house. Everything was normal except for that continuous
buzzing sound. At about 9:30 pm, the sound eventually turned
into a loud rumbling event. Being familiar with earthquakes, my
family thought they were riding one out. The only difference was
that a huge light was above the house and everything else around
was well lit.

Mondo ran outside to see what was going on and my dad went to
get his pistol. Mondo felt the heat but could not see anything
from the brightness of the powerful light. By the time dad
reached the front door, the object above the house had
disappeared. My father did not believe in such nonsense until
living through that event.

I remember twice encountering events similar to this event in
the old house. The only difference was that the object appeared
to be much higher above the house. Also, several times I was
driving in from another town and could clearly see an object
hovering about the small town. I could not get very close to the
object before it evaporated.










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                  Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Cammack

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:13:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:02:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Cammack


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 00:11:26 -0400
>Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:42:58 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show

>>>From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 07:38:40 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show

><snip>

>>>Funny you should mention it, I do remember this show as a kid
>>>too and was wondering what the name was.....

>>>Now I know. Ah the memories, I think we need something like this
>>>again.

>>Only if one is a 'pelican' (UFO debunker)! That show was
>>designed by air force intelligence to put down the UFO subject,
>>and episodes were designed to start out having each report look
>>good and very mysterious, and them to 'demolish' it at the end.

>>How do I know? Well for one, I watched quite a few episodes and
>>that was clearly the scheme.

>I second Ray on this. I, too watched the show, maybe all the
>episodes, I don't recall. It seems tor me that there were only
>one, or maybe two, which resulted in a question mark at the end.

>By far most of them "solved" the UFO sighting.

>The episodes were supposedly based on Blue Book cases. However,
>liberal use was made of artistic license.


I too remember the series (are we all showing our age?!).

I agree that the programmes 'solved' the cases by showing most
of them to be weather balloons, etc.

The redeeming feature of the programme was that it stoked
interest in UFOs and kept the topic before the public. It also
incited a few of us to believe that something unexplained was
out there.

Even then (before Vietnam and Watergate) I was reluctant to
believe the US military had the answer right and that I was
being told the truth.


Diana








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

              Re: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:27:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:07:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming -


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:18:43 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming

>>From: Paul Anderson <cccrnnews.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:13:14 -0700
>>Subject: CCCRN News: Polish Witness Reports Crop Circle Forming

>>CCCRN NEWS
>>E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

>>May 25, 2004

>>http://www.cccrn.ca

>>_____________________________

>>NEW @ BLT: EYEWITNESS REPORT OF A CROP CIRCLE FORMING IN POLAND
>
>>In 2003 Nancy Talbott (BLT Research Team Inc.) had the
>>opportunity to visit Wylatowo, Poland and carry out fieldwork
>>there in conjunction with people from the Nautilus Foundation
>>and with the help of a British team-mate, Dan Lobb. Among other
>>interesting events recorded there was a spectacular eyewitness
>>account of a crop circle forming in 2000 involving a complex
>>aerial object settling down in a field in which, the following
>>morning, a crop circle was found - the design of which closely
>>resembled the visually-perceived object of the night before.

>>This is the first time, to our knowledge, that the action of a
>>complex aerial object has resulted in the production of a crop
>>circle whose design mimicked the object itself.

>Hi Paul! Hi Everyone!

>It may not really be the first. Since the witness to the alleged
>aerial object was not interviewed by Nancy, her team-mate or the
>people from the Nautilus Foundation until well after the crop
>circle was found which allegedly resembled the visually-
>perceived aerial object. A connection between the two cannot be
>established simply by taking the word of the single nice Polish
>witness. Nancy and other crop circle researchers must provide
>harder evidence than this to convince scientists - or even a
>jury!

>>Additionally, the design produced (I have been told by several
>>Poles that it is called a "Polish Cross") was both replicated
>>and/or elaborated upon in the years following... and not only in
>>fields. A fisherman, in another area of Poland altogether,
>>caught a carp with the same design embedded into both sides of
>>its body in a totally unexplicable manner.

>Were there others who saw this Polish fisherman catch this carp
>with the "Polish Cross" design embedded into both sides of its
>body? The marks on this flattened dead fish could easily have
>been made if it were pressed against with an ornate pattern,
>possibly even a Polish BBQ grill! Although this fish has little
>to do with UFOs or crop circles, it does tell us that the symbol
>of the Polish Cross has unique religious or cultural
>significance to Poles and local hoaxers may create crop circles
>with such patterns to make them more mysterious to the curious
>who come to see them.

>>To read the full report, with excellent photos, go to
>>www.bltresearch.com and click on either "Updates" or "Eyewitness
>>Reports."

>>Another BLT report of an eyewitness to a UFO landing in Golabki,
>>Poland, with recovered physical evidence and analyses which
>>prove the presence of intense heat having been present has also
>>been issued and is available at:

>>http://www.rense.com/general49/blt.htm

>Where is this recovered physical evidence and analyses? Not only
>does the analysis presented not support the claim that there was
>intense heat present but the words "hot" and "heat" do not
>appear anywhere in the text of the report! Lots of close-up
>pictures of a rock and scientific plots and diagrams are pretty
>but fail to prove anything unusual about this case! Like
>ufology, it may have been a slow year for crop circle
>researchers too but that is no excuse for presenting cases under
>the illusion that scientific analysis proves their conclusions
>that the soil was vitrified. It doesn't in this particular case
>or shows anything other than the ordinary.

<snip>

Hi Nick,

Although I've given you some static for some of your comments in
the past, I want to add a huge "AMEN!" for your valid and
perceptive comments on that report.

Thanks for speaking up on the matter.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

               Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:57:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:09:17 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Stanford


>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:07:12 -0600
>Subject: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>I hope you can find the following information interesting and
>useful:

>UFO investigators must examine all the available evidence to
>reduce the risk of culminating a case without some extra
>valuable information.

>What are those lights in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video?
>Mexican Air Force Video lights are real UFOs or simply Oil Well
>flames? Did you know about the Oil Well Field called CANTARELL
>in the Gulf of Mexico exactly in front of Ciudad del Carmen and
>not to far from the sea shore?

>-Cantarell Oil Field-
>Cantarell Field or Cantarell Complex is the largest oil field in
>Mexico, located 80 kilometers offshore in the Bay of Campeche.
>This field comprises four major fields Akal, Nohoch, Chac, Kutz
>and the recently discovered Sihil. The first field was
>discovered in 1976, then known as Cantarell complex in 1996.

<snip>


Alejandro,

And are we to suppose that the Mexican air crew had not the
slightest idea that the oil field excess-gas-burning fires were
out there?

Hmmm. Oil rig flares tracked on radar at near the aircraft's
altitude! Absolutely amazing! And, seen in infrared at near
flight altitude, too! Amazing! :-o

Give reality a break, Alejandro.

Your wishful thinking and confabulation is jumping far ahead of
any science you are pretending to exercise! One could take your
report bit-by-bit and demolish your imaginary explanation, but,
at least for me, it is not pleasant to spend the day wading
around in Pelican poop! (aka, B.S.) ('pelican' = subjective
skeptic)

I suspect that the truth is, you are conjuring up this
'explanation' because of your old dislike of Jaime Maussan, the
recipient of this case from the Mexican authorities. Well, the
truth is that I've never cared much for Maussan's wide-eyed
acceptance and promotion of some bogus UFO claims either, but
you would be wise to dispense with your prejudice, hang up your
pretense at doing science on this case, and leave it to
qualified individuals who have no axe to grind.

When, months ago, you took a position against the idea that an
airliner's landing gear had hit a UFO, I was inclined to accept
your side of the case, but in this instance, I think you have
not even one pelican leg to stand upon.

Hey, by-the-way, gas-burning flares tend to flare up and down in
the substantial breezes from the gulf, in that region, randomly
brightening and dimming, widening and then gathering, but I see
no equivalent variance in the infrared image of the things under
discussion, whatever their nature.


Ray Stanford,

Taking a moment off from tracking mesozoic animals to track a
living pelican








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                 Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:24:18 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:11:36 -0400
Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Ledger


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 02:42:50 -0700
>Subject: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

>I just added another page to my *U* Database website.

>http://www.larryhatch.net/MONTHCNT.html

<snip>

>Out of 18,200 sightings total in the database, this has to be
>statistically significant, but I don't see any special reason
>for it.

>I could posit a smoothly increasing curve as we approach the
>warmer months, longer days etc., with people outdoors a lot
>more. But, no. Its almost as if people are saving up their
>fireworks for July and have some left over thru November.

>Any ideas? Has anyone else noticed this?


This would be a weak attempt at a theory, Larry, but I wonder
how many of these sightings during the spike could be attributed
to people camping out, hiking or travelling in areas away from
the backscatter of city lights? This then is added to the
regular background sightings. What's the average rainfall [for
obvious reasons] on an average worldwide- for that month as
compared to the other 11? Are there more meteor showers during
that month, is the air more stable-or unstable, does air traffic
increase for some reason during July? How slewed is the data to
the United States?

People are out more during these times no doubt but if you are
in warmer climes, that shouldn't necessarily favor July. Where I
live [NS] sure but in Florida and Texas say, better to stay in
where the AC gives you some relief.

Like I say, it's weak.

Best,

Don Ledger









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

               Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:40:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:14:18 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Maccabee


>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:07:12 -0600
>Subject: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>What are those lights in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video?
>Mexican Air Force Video lights are real UFOs or simply Oil Well
>flames? Did you know about the Oil Well Field called CANTARELL
>in the Gulf of Mexico exactly in front of Ciudad del Carmen and
>not to far from the sea shore?

<snip>

>See: http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/campech.gif

>The lights (UFO's) shown in the video of march 05, 2004 provided
>by the Mexican Air Force could be the heat source produced by
>the flames of the oil wells located in the Oil field Cantarell
>between 50 km to 90 km in the Gulf of Mexico, very close to the
>shores of Ciudad del Carmen city in the Campeche's State and
>within the range of the C26A FLIR camera at the moment of the
>strange sighting.

<snip>

>There are in the Cantarell Oil Field 214 oil wells in 9
>platforms from 184 that PEMEX (Mexican Oil Company) has in the
>Gulf of Mexico.

<snip>

>Is there a possibility that the continuos flame in the offshore
>Oil Wells "platform flames" (passive fire) could have been
>mistaken as the lights (UFO's) that we have seen in the now
>famous Mexican Air Force FLIR video?

>Is it possible that the FLIR camera was not handled in the
>appropriate brightness control? I must remark that the FLIR
>equipment was used in daylight and maybe because of that the
>heat sensors detected the oil well's flames causing the infrared
>focal plane array (IRFPA) to work improperly? Or maybe was out
>of range and by that out of focus and the images are shown
>blurred or as in an excess of zooming?

>Regarding the presence of this numerous oil wells that have
>their burners always with flames (passive fire) to burn the
>excess of gas in the platforms I saw the UFO video many times
>and noticed the following coincidences that will provide new
>data to this case and I hope you'll find this data useful. I'll
>appreciate whatever you have to say on this information I've
>recollected for the last 13 days. This information was gathered
>with honesty and I hope it'll help solve this outrageous case


Outrageous?

Maybe..... maybe not.

I should think that the FLIR operator would be aware of the oil
fires having flown around the area many times before (I assume
this wasn't his first experience operating the flir in that
area.)

If one looks at the URL:

http://www.alcione.org/fraudes/fam/campeche\0.gif

one sees superimposed upon a map a frame of the video showing
the lights I have caller "the twins" and the azimuth -133.7.
Also shown, but not mentioned by Fran, is the elevation, EL =
3, which implies a sighting line tilted upward.

Looking at the whole video one sees that the "twins" and
other lights are above at least the lower cloud level.

However, the most convincing visual evidence that the objects
are not at ground level appears in the video around 17:06:43-45
at which time the lights/object emerge from a cloud and, behind
them is a dark area (cloud shaded from the sun). After they, one
after another, pass the dark cloud they also pass in front of a
bright cloud (lit by the sun).

This proves that they were at cloud level and not on the ground.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

             Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:40:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:15:45 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Maccabee


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:50:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

><snip>

>>FLIR can be used to see body heat [obviously not very hot]
>>however it has to be carefully "tuned" to see the intended
>>target against the background heat [clutter] ie the ground,
>>trees, buildings etc. It works best at night, naturally, when
>>that background heat has dissipated somewhat.

>...Regarding the FLIR footage, I've sent Errol a snippet of a
>conversation between Art Bell and Michio Kaku where Kaku reports
>seeing objects fly beyond an expected aerodynamics envelope...
>during that sighting.  Is anybody seeing anything like that in
>the footage they have?

Any idea of where, in the video, to look? The transcript of the
interview with the radar operator refers to sudden changes of
speed, but I see no sudden changes in the video.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 27

                Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:40:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:18:12 -0400
Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Maccabee


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 02:42:50 -0700
>Subject: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

>I just added another page to my *U* Database website.

>http://www.larryhatch.net/MONTHCNT.html

>Its none too spectacular, just a bar chart of monthly sightings
>counts for all-time, combined. Its fast loading, please take a
>look at least.

>What's interesting is the distribution of sightings over the
>seasons. Sightings counts range from about 1100-1200 for the
>first 6 months of the year, right up to June (1206)... then
>Blammo!

>July skyrockets to almost 2200, and it tapers off after that
>until December which is about 1100 again.

>Out of 18,200 sightings total in the database, this has to be
>statistically significant, but I don't see any special reason
>for it.

>I could posit a smoothly increasing curve as we approach the
>warmer months, longer days etc., with people outdoors a lot
>more. But, no. Its almost as if people are saving up their
>fireworks for July and have some left over thru November.

>Any ideas? Has anyone else noticed this?

Interesting.

What happens if you do the same graph but separate the Northern
and Southern Hemispheres? Is there a Southern Hemisphere bump in
the December-January time frame?








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                            Boldly Going Nowhere

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 02:21:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 02:21:13 -0400
Subject: Boldly Going Nowhere




Source: The South Missourian - Salem, Arizona

http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?pnpID=3D883&NewsID=3D550657&Catego=
ryID=3D10961&show=3Dlocalnews&om=3D2

05-27-04


Boldly Going Nowhere

Conspiracies in high places
by
Bret Burquest


A conspiracy is a secret agreement among a group of people
attempting to conceal something. It's like a bad dream =96 too
nasty to deal with and too important to ignore. The two biggest
conspiracies in our lifetimes, if true, are the assassination of
John F. Kennedy and the cover-up of the presence of
extraterrestrial beings on earth.

Kenn Thomas, author of a book titled Maury Island UFO: The
Crisman Conspiracy, points out a remarkable string of
coincidences that may actually tie the two conspiracies
together. According to Thomas, a man named Fred Crisman played a
central role in these seemingly unrelated events.

On June 21, 1947, an airplane pilot named Kenneth Arnold spotted
what he described as =93flying saucers"=94 over Mt. Ranier in
Washington, launching the modern UFO era. The term =93flying
saucer=94 soon became part of the UFO lexicon. There were many UFO
sightings later in 1947, including the famous Roswell crash
incident.

Four people, including Harold Dahl and his son, witnessed the
event from a salvage boat in a nearby bay. They reported seeing
six doughnut-shaped craft, approximately 20 feet in diameter,
hovering high above. Five of the craft formed a circle
surrounding a craft in the middle that was wobbling badly. The
seemingly damaged craft suddenly dropped down about 700 feet,
then spewed two substances =96 one was a paper-like metal that
floated in the bay and the other was a hot, steaming, black
sludge that rained down, striking Dahl's son and killing his
dog.

Dahl reported these events to Fred Crisman, a man he believed to
have some connections in the intelligence community. Crisman
subsequently went to Maury Island to investigate the incident.
He found a great deal of both materials on the shore and
recovered some for himself.

Crisman shared his experience with Ray Palmer, a magazine
publisher, who then hired Kenneth Arnold (the original pilot) to
investigate further. Three days later, Arnold had more
sightings, culminating with a woman recovering a 30-inch saucer
in the same vicinity, who then turned the saucer over to FBI
agent Guy Banister.

Capt. Lee Davidson and Lt. Frank Brown, Air Force investigators
under the command of Gen. Nathan Twining, soon joined Arnold in
retrieving debris on Maury Island. Crisman was later compelled
to turn over his samples to the two investigators. MJ12
documents, recently discovered under the Freedom of Information
Act, also indicate that Crisman turned additional samples he had
held back over to CIA agent Clay Shaw.

In November of 1963, John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas.
Many people believe it was part of a larger conspiracy, far
beyond a lone gunman named Lee Harvey Oswald. In his 1968
investigation of the assassination, New Orleans District
Attorney Jim Garrison claimed that Guy Banister and Claw Shaw
were involved in the plot to kill JFK, and that Fred Crisman may
have been one of the gunmen.

Some interesting coincidences between the JFK assassination and
the 1947 UFO cover-up include:

=46rom 1943 to 1952 Guy Banister was FBI Special Agent in Charge
in the Pacific Northwest, later transferred to Chicago. Upon
retirement he opened a private investigative office in New
Orleans where he occasionally hired Lee Harvey Oswald in a
variety of capacities.

In 1963, former CIA agent Clay Shaw was the director of the
International Trade Mart in New Orleans, a CIA front
organization. He later went to trial as one of the co-
conspirators in JFK's death but was found not guilty by a jury.
Key evidence linking Shaw to the assassination was not permitted
by the trial judge.

According to many JFK assassination researchers, Crisman was one
of the three so-called hoboes who were picked up in the railroad
yard immediately following the shooting, then released shortly
thereafter.

The world is full of strange coincidences and possible
conspiracies in high places. Unfortunately, when you believe in
a conspiracy, there's not much you can do about it except bang
your head against the wall.

Between the JFK and UFO conspiracies, there's enough intrigue to
keep heads banging for a long time.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                 Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:21:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:47:25 -0400
Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Hatch


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:40:30 -0400
>Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 02:42:50 -0700
>>Subject: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

>>I just added another page to my *U* Database website.

>>http://www.larryhatch.net/MONTHCNT.html

<snip>

>>July skyrockets to almost 2200, and it tapers off after that
>>until December which is about 1100 again.

>>Out of 18,200 sightings total in the database, this has to be
>>statistically significant, but I don't see any special reason
>>for it.

>>I could posit a smoothly increasing curve as we approach the
>>warmer months, longer days etc., with people outdoors a lot
>>more. But, no. Its almost as if people are saving up their
>>fireworks for July and have some left over thru November.

>>Any ideas? Has anyone else noticed this?

>What happens if you do the same graph but separate the Northern
>and Southern Hemispheres? Is there a Southern Hemisphere bump in
>the December-January time frame?

Great idea Bruce!

This graph was for both hemispheres, N & S.:

http://www.larryhatch.net/MONTHCNT.html

When I get back from work in 12 hours, I will do exactly as you
suggest.

Meanwhile, here are two daily histograms to consider:

Northern Hemisphere only - all years combined:

http://www.larryhatch.net/YDAYNHM.html

and Southern Hemisphere only - all years combined:

http://www.larryhatch.net/YDAYSHM.html

It looks for now like there is a small July peak in the Southern
Hemisphere as well, in their dead of winter, but data is
obviously spottier.


Best

- Larry









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

             Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:01:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:49:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Lehmberg


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:40:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:50:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>><snip>

>>>FLIR can be used to see body heat [obviously not very hot]
>>>however it has to be carefully "tuned" to see the intended
>>>target against the background heat [clutter] ie the ground,
>>>trees, buildings etc. It works best at night, naturally, when
>>>that background heat has dissipated somewhat.

>>...Regarding the FLIR footage, I've sent Errol a snippet of a
>>conversation between Art Bell and Michio Kaku where Kaku reports
>>seeing objects fly beyond an expected aerodynamics envelope...
>>during that sighting.  Is anybody seeing anything like that in
>>the footage they have?

>Any idea of where, in the video, to look? The transcript of the
>interview with the radar operator refers to sudden changes of
>speed, but I see no sudden changes in the video.

I've no other information than what Kaku said in the audio. He
seemed confident in what he expressed... Maybe Errol parsed out
something that I missed. If you (or anyone) want to hear the
clip you can join "AlienViewGroup" and download it from the
files section, to have a listen on your own, at the following
URL:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/


alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net
...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

              Re: UFO Encounter In San Juan Bautista - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:43:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:54:38 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Encounter In San Juan Bautista - Stanford


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 06:34:47 -0700
>Subject: UFO Encounter In San Juan Bautista

>Source: Profind Pages

>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/27/MN129.htm

>05-27-04

>UFO Encounter In San Juan Bautista

<snip>

>The report explains the sighting, a buzzing noise and a rumbling
>that was similar to an Earthquake (the house his Uncle lives in
>sits on top of the San Andreas Fault!)

<snip>

>I remember twice encountering events similar to this event in
>the old house. The only difference was that the object appeared
>to be much higher above the house. Also, several times I was
>driving in from another town and could clearly see an object
>hovering about the small town. I could not get very close to the
>object before it evaporated.

While not insisting on such a solution, this sounds to me very
much light earthquake lights. I recall, years ago, attending an
APRO (Aerial Phenomena Research Organization, for recent
arrivals to whom the late organization may be unknown) in
Tucson, Arizona, during which a well-known geologist gave a talk
on earthquake lights and showed impressive photos of some
examples.

A generalized glow, accompanied by some individual balls of
light characterized the phenomenon, thought to have been due to
piezoelectric (meaning the generation of electricity or of
electric polarity in dielectric crystals subjected to mechanical
stress.) stress of vulnerable rocks.

Years later, a group from Oak Ridge, Tennessee, including
physicist and friend David E. Fields, went out to test whether
the famous Brown Mountain Lights might possibly be the result of
localized piezoelectric stress. They strategically set of a
dynamite blast at a place where it would stress a certain area
of rock and, as predicted by their hypothesis, generated a
pseudo-earthquake light through piezoelectric stress upon
crystals in the rock mass.

I doubt that earthquake lights account for many UFO reports, but
the phenomenon is unquestionably responsible for some
observations of mysterious lights.


Ray Stanford








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                     Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:11:54 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:58:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Rimmer


>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:29:21 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:42:31 +0100
>>>>Subject: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>>This is the 50th Magonia Supplement, and is a special issue
>>>>featuring the case of:

>>>>The Downfall Of Corporal Valdes

>>>>by Diego Zuniga, the editor in chief of the Chilean ufological
>>>>bulletin La Nave de los Locos :

>>>>http://www.lanavedeloslocos.cl

>>>>Eight soldiers in the north of Chile see two small lights. The
>>>>corporal in charge of the group disappears, to later return
>>>>speaking incoherent words. This is the plot of the Valdes
>>>>Case.

>>><snip>

>>>>Read the full account at:

>>>>http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms50.htm

>>>...Hang on, Mr. Rimmer, though I suspect you're too smart a man
>>>to fail to perceive that reality slipping away from you - feel
>>>it crawling beneath the fingers of a weakening hand.

>>I'm afraid that I'm not so smart a man that I've got the
>>faintest idea what you're going on about.

>...Sorry to have missed this, Mr. Rimmer, this too convenient
>and arbitrary bit of assumed cluelessness... but I can hardly be
>surprised. I should have remembered that along with George
>Walker Bush, it's pelicanists, too, who "don't do nuance."  I
>suspect you know exactly what I'm "on about", sir. It's an easy
>dodge to feign a contrived lack of understanding... moreover, it
>may lack a certain 'heroic' quality, nest ce pas?

I am sorry to disappoint my many admirers on this List, but I
can assure you that my 'cluelessness' is in no way contrived. I
really do have no idea what you are talking about. No doubt part
of this is due to your imaginative treatment of the English
language, but I still don't know what is "crawling beneath the
fingers of a weakening hand", nor do I understand how a simple
announcement that a document about a UFO case in Chile was being
posted on a website, should produce such a remarkable response.

Obviously your polemic is far too nuanced for me, and I
apologise for my lack of heroic qualities, but would you please,
in simple language that even someone as clueless as me can
understand, tell me what you are going on about?

And, as a point of interest, have you actually read Diego
Zuniga's article?


Yours in bafflement...

John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                  Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Colvin

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:07:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:04:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show - Colvin


Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:35:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Hazelton <irunfilm.nul>
  To: skeptic.nul
Subj: FWD (SK) Re: Project UFO The Old TV Show


Ray Stanford wrote:

>That show was designed by air force intelligence to put
>down the UFO subject, and episodes were designed to start
>out having each report look good and very mysterious, and
>them to 'demolish' it at the end.

If true, it was a spectacularly poor strategy. It just ended up
making the investigators look like idiots.

The presentation of the each case (many of which I was familiar
with), was elaborated upon greatly, with very solid and real
alien, robot, and spaceship encounters being depicted in
substantial detail.

If at the end the investigators determined it was Venus, or
Swamp Gas, or whatever, it only succeeded in making the
investigators look like either fools or liars. We had been shown
very clearly what the encounter looked like (whether it
reflected the actual case or not was beside the point), and it
sure didn't look like Venus.

--John Hazelton
California, USA


--

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                 Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Franz

From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:09:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:10:42 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Franz


>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:07:12 -0600
>Subject: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?


Hello again Errol,

Could you please change the link located at the bottom of my
recent post to the List that originally was:

Oil Wells Names And Location Reference Data:
http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/REFERENCE_DATA.html


It was posted to the list as:

http://www.alcione.org/fraudes/fam/reference_data.html

Regards,


A Franz








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

              Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 03:09:38 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:15:40 -0400
Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews - Ledger


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:50:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:29:19 -0400
>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

>>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:05:56 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: 2004 Mexico UFO Case Crew Interviews

><snip>

>>FLIR can be used to see body heat [obviously not very hot]
>>however it has to be carefully "tuned" to see the intended
>>target against the background heat [clutter] ie the ground,
>>trees, buildings etc. It works best at night, naturally, when
>>that background heat has dissipated somewhat.

>...Regarding the FLIR footage, I've sent Errol a snippet of a
>conversation between Art Bell and Michio Kaku where Kaku reports
>seeing objects fly beyond an expected aerodynamics envelope...
>during that sighting.  Is anybody seeing anything like that in
>the footage they have?


Hi Al,

I'm just getting my feet under me on this, having just arrived
home from away. Details, however, are coming in at a great rate,
but the streaming video I'm seeing is not the best. Anyone got a
real good source?


Don Ledger







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                 Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 01:22:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:21:48 -0400
Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Hatch


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:40:30 -0400
>Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 02:42:50 -0700
>>Subject: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

>>I just added another page to my *U* Database website.

>>http://www.larryhatch.net/MONTHCNT.html

<snip>

>>July skyrockets to almost 2200, and it tapers off after that
>>until December which is about 1100 again.

>>Out of 18,200 sightings total in the database, this has to be
>>statistically significant, but I don't see any special reason
>>for it.

>>I could posit a smoothly increasing curve as we approach the
>>warmer months, longer days etc., with people outdoors a lot
>>more. But, no. Its almost as if people are saving up their
>>fireworks for July and have some left over thru November.

>>Any ideas? Has anyone else noticed this?

>What happens if you do the same graph but separate the Northern
>and Southern Hemispheres? Is there a Southern Hemisphere bump in
>the December-January time frame?



>Interesting.

>What happens if you do the same graph but separate the Northern
>and Southern Hemispheres? Is there a Southern Hemisphere bump in
>the December-January time frame? [-BM]


Hello again Bruce:

I ran off the same chart twice, for Northern and Southern
Hemispheres separately. Its not worth putting up another web
page. Basically, the N. Hemi dominates the data so that chart
looks almost identical to the one on URL above.

Southern Hemi chart is different entirely. Monthly Counts are
about one sixth of those for N.Hemi. for one thing.

In the South (surprise!) July remains the busiest month! July is
the 'dead of winter' down there. The sun never rises in
Antarctica for example.

Aside from that July surprise, counts are much more evenly
distributed over the months. Here are actual counts for
comparison: NH = Northern Hemisphere, SH = Southern.

    JAN FEB  MAR  APR MAY  JUN  JLY  AUG  SEP  OCT  NOV  DEC

NH 1035 906 1230 1108 861 1038 1937 1779 1754 1474 1457  961
SH  184 171  172  135 216  168  261  190  174  200  174  147

The N.Hemi data is 15,540 listings, about 85% of my total cases
listed. Of that NH data, over half (8401 cases) are in the FIVE
months July thru November, the remaining 7139 are in the other
seven months Dec - June.

Thus 42% of the months (roughly, 5/12 = 0.4166..) account for
54% of the sightings.

I'm sure much of this due to outdoor Summer activities.

What I don't understand, is why this bulge waits until July,
then runs to November. A purely 'silly-season' effect of five
months duration should run from May thru September instead.

That's why I brought the matter up. Does this suggest influences
independent of the observer?

the main meteor showers occur in April, August, October,
November and December. I see no correspondence at all to the
numbers above. Remember that I try to filter out nite-lites,
stars, planets, whackos, balloons, fireworks, meteors ...

I don't always succeed, but I doubt I failed that badly.


Best

- Larry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

               No More SEPRA In France CNES Official Confirms

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:25:47 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:41:49 -0400
Subject: No More SEPRA In France CNES Official Confirms


Hi All,

Some news about the destiny of the french SEPRA.

I did an interview today with Arnaud Benedetti, who's in charge
of the official communication of the French National Center for
Space Studies (CNES).

The interview, and my comments about it, are available here - in
French:

http://www.ovniland.com/article.php3?id_article=10

The Google'Translation Tool is here for you:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ovniland.com%2Farticle.
php3%3Fid_article%3D10&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

Actually, the automatic translation is not attractive at all, so
here are the main conclusions of the interview:

The SEPRA itself doesn't exist anymore since January 2004!

Jean-Jacques Velasco is now "in charge of mission" (he doesn't
lead any department anymore and acts alone). His mission deals
with "rare aerospace phenomena".

Nevertheless, discussions are opened (inside the CNES) about the
possible creation of a "think tank" ("Comite de pilotage") for
the establishement of a real program to study rare aerospace
phenomena (needless to sy, the cursed "u" word is never used by
CNES officials!).

The CNES doesn't care about the public declarations of Jean-
Jacques Velasco (in the media or in his book). It is not
concerned at all with the conceptions expressed by him.

Lets be optimistic: a GEPAN-like organization could arise in the
following months... (Yes I know, I've always been TOO
optimistic!).

About the SEPRA/GEPAN archives, Benedetti said that the material
would be available some day (to what kind of audience?), but the
"anonymisation" of all the papers will take a very long time (In
my opinion, it will never be done if people don't show that they
are interested in this topic).


Regards,

Gregory Gutierez
Paris, France
http://www.ovniland.com
http://www.roswell-fr.org
http://www.liste-aleph.org








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                    Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:55:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:11:54 +0100
>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:29:21 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:42:31 +0100
>>>>>Subject: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>>>This is the 50th Magonia Supplement, and is a special issue
>>>>>featuring the case of:

>>>>>The Downfall Of Corporal Valdes

>>>>>by Diego Zuniga, the editor in chief of the Chilean ufological
>>>>>bulletin La Nave de los Locos :

>>>>>http://www.lanavedeloslocos.cl

>>>>>Eight soldiers in the north of Chile see two small lights. The
>>>>>corporal in charge of the group disappears, to later return
>>>>>speaking incoherent words. This is the plot of the Valdes
>>>>>Case.

>>>><snip>

>>>>>Read the full account at:

>>>>>http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms50.htm

>>>>...Hang on, Mr. Rimmer, though I suspect you're too smart a man
>>>>to fail to perceive that reality slipping away from you - feel
>>>>it crawling beneath the fingers of a weakening hand.

>>>I'm afraid that I'm not so smart a man that I've got the
>>>faintest idea what you're going on about.

>>...Sorry to have missed this, Mr. Rimmer, this too convenient
>>and arbitrary bit of assumed cluelessness... but I can hardly be
>>surprised. I should have remembered that along with George
>>Walker Bush, it's pelicanists, too, who "don't do nuance." I
>>suspect you know exactly what I'm "on about", sir. It's an easy
>>dodge to feign a contrived lack of understanding... moreover, it
>>may lack a certain 'heroic' quality, nest ce pas?

>I am sorry to disappoint my many admirers on this List, but I
>can assure you that my 'cluelessness' is in no way contrived. I
>really do have no idea what you are talking about.

Ok, Mr. Rimmer. You can have it your way. We'll forget for a
moment that you've likely very little desire to even consider
what I'm talking about. It remains that the use of metaphor was
not lost on many who took the time to read, even as you
innocently maintain that the, hardly all _that_ abstruse, point
was lost on you.

>No doubt part
>of this is due to your imaginative treatment of the English
>language,

Words are just another box of paint to me, Mr. Rimmer.
'Everything' is art, even a nuanced expression as a cameo of
your patently seamy pelicanist position. Be that as it may, many
find me all TOO understandable, sir. I suspect you are one of
those, still.

>but I still don't know what is "crawling beneath the
>fingers of a weakening hand", nor do I understand how a simple
>announcement that a document about a UFO case in Chile was being
>posted on a website, should produce such a remarkable response.

Oh come on... you move from the sublime to the ridiculous. Real
astonishment with regard to an article on your web site, sir,
would be my response to a piece that _didn't_ dismiss UFOs
reflexively and out of hand. Now _that_ would provoke a
remarkable responce!

>Obviously your polemic is far too nuanced for me, and I
>apologise for my lack of heroic qualities,

I'm a person engaged in or inclined to controversy, argument, or
refutation only when confronted with expressions and ideas that
ignore the macroscopic for the microscopic, use too broad a
brush when applying positional paint, or grind an axe in pursuit
of an un-admitted goal... as to heroism, scrape the self applied
scales from your eyes and _be_ a hero, sir.

>but would you please,
>in simple language that even someone as clueless as me can
>understand, tell me what you are going on about?

You can lead a horse to water sir, but you can't make him
drink... oh, you can actually, but it requires an engine hoist,
a cattle prod, and an adjustable nine volt taser. Let's get the
equipment out then.

>And, as a point of interest, have you actually read Diego
>Zuniga's article?

No! ...And for the same reason I don't take reading suggestions
from Kal K. Korff or Ernst Zundel. For you, though, let me go
winnow it out and see if it is as predicted, right this moment.
I'll be fair...

(Pause for research...)

...GAWD! What a waste of my precious time... just as I had
predicted. You see, sir, this article was just another of the
artfully dismissive pieces that Magonia is famous for which
tries to convincingly to discredit the ufological macrocosm by
investigating a spurious item in the microcosm, find 'it'
wanting... and then use _it_ as a devise to cast aspersions on
the ufological macrocosm. In other words (as you admit needing
them), it's a man of literary straw (duplicitously resplendent
and professionally concise in 18 citations and 2 appendices!)
that is more easily knocked over so you can discredit the whole
of serious ufology. You fool no one with this exercise.

If you were really on the ball and wanted to be taken seriously
by your target audience you'd be able to do the same thing with
(or write a positive piece about):

1. Kirtland AFB (11\4\57)
2. Hynek Blue Book Case (5\5\65)
3. Malmstrom AFB (3/20/67)
4. Incident at Redlands, Ca. (Hynek, BB, 2\4\68)
5. Exeter, New Hampshire (9\3\65)
6. Malmstrom AFB (11\7\75)
7. Iran F-4 Incident (9\76)
8. Belgium (1989\90)
9. Illinois, USA (1\5\2000)

... and make your convincing case in an equal number of
citations and appendices! We don't see a lot (any?) of _that_,
sir. Moreover, the last time your fellow pelicanists tried to
make a cogent anti-point with (refute) a strong case was
Trindade, and that pointless little exercise only cost you more
of your dwindling credibility. Lately, with regard to the latest
Mexico flap, you and yours are quick to trot out planet
sightings, swamp gas, ground-fires, and radar echoes (...Andy
Roberts flying lighthouses...?) ... further weakening your grip
on an anti-ufological haft. ...Feel it slipping?  The only
'courage' you're showing is the ongoing temerity to be dogmatic
when you're wrong.

>Yours in bafflement...

Few on this List buy that, I think, but if it floats your
boat... just don't try wearing the cloak of the cited evenhanded
in my presence, sir. I'll be throwing a flag on it. Your bias
is plain, your cant unmistakable, and your prejudice is laid
bare.

...but do try to hang on, sir. It's fun to watch, it's fuel on
your opposition's fire, and, finally, it's a demonstration that
the best you've got... is not very good.

I trust that this was, a little, clearer?

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                          Secrecy News -- 05/28/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:28:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:55:25 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 05/28/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 48
May 28, 2004


**      ARMY: NEW FIELD MANUAL ON INTELLIGENCE
**      CRS ON AL QAIDA PRE- AND POST-9/11
**      UNESCO GUIDELINES ON PUBLIC DOMAIN GOVERNMENT INFO
**      THE COUNTER INTELLIGENCE CORPS IN WORLD WAR II
**      GERMANS VIEW THE AMERICAN SOLDIER IN WORLD WAR I


ARMY: NEW FIELD MANUAL ON INTELLIGENCE

The U.S. Army has issued a new Field Manual on intelligence that
sets forth in detail the roles and functions of intelligence in
Army and joint military operations.

The new Field Manual (FM) 2-0 is "the Army's keystone document
for military intelligence doctrine."

With conceptual rigor, the manual proceeds from "the
fundamentals of intelligence operations" to "intelligence
considerations in strategic readiness" and beyond.

A copy of the unclassified document was obtained by Secrecy
News.

See FM 2-0, "Intelligence," dated 17 May 2004 (211 pages, 3.2 MB
PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm2-0.pdf


CRS ON AL QAEDA PRE- AND POST-9/11

The record of terrorist attacks attributed to al Qaeda was
compiled in a memorandum prepared by the Congressional Research
Service in response to a request from the House Government
Reform Committee.

The CRS memo concluded, with several methodological caveats,
that al Qaeda terrorism has actually increased after September
11, 2001, not diminished.

See "Terrorist Attacks by Al Qaeda" by Audrey Kurth Cronin,
Congressional Research Service, March 31, 2004, released by the
House Government Reform Committee Minority:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/033104.pdf

See also "Al Qaeda After the Iraq Conflict" by the same CRS
author from one year ago, May 23, 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21529.pdf


UNESCO GUIDELINES ON PUBLIC DOMAIN GOVERNMENT INFO

UNESCO, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural
Organization, has published a new set of policy guidelines
intended to encourage member nations to publish government
information.

"One of the greatest values associated with placing governmental
information in the public domain is transparency of governance
and the promotion of democratic ideals: equality, democracy,
openness," the document says.

"Open and unrestricted dissemination of public information also
enhances public health and safety, and the general social
welfare, as citizens become better able to make informed
decisions about their daily life, their environment, and their
future."

The UNESCO document describes a policy framework through which
governments can promote the dissemination and use of official
information.

See "Policy Guidelines for the Development and Promotion of
Governmental Public Domain Information" by Paul F. Uhlir,
UNESCO, May 2004 (thanks to G. Price, D. Banisar):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/unesco_govinfo.pdf


THE COUNTER INTELLIGENCE CORPS IN WORLD WAR II

Memorial Day provides an occasion to recall the rich history of
the U.S. Army Counter Intelligence Corps.

"This little-known but important organization played a
significant role during World War II and the first decade of the
Cold War," wrote CIA historian Kevin C. Ruffner.

"While the historical community has pressed for the
declassification of records from the World War II-era Office of
Strategic Services (OSS) and the post-war CIA, CIC's records, in
fact, promise to shed even greater light on American
intelligence activities than has been previously recognized."

See his concise appreciation in "CIC Records: A Valuable Tool
for Researchers," Center for the Study of Intelligence Bulletin,
Summer 2000:

http://www.cia.gov/csi/bulletin/csi11.html#toc8

And for an official Army account, see "Counter Intelligence
Corps History and Mission in World War II," CIC School, no date,
which is newly available online (87 pages, 3.1 MB PDF file)
here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/army/cic.pdf


GERMANS VIEW THE AMERICAN SOLDIER IN WORLD WAR I

Reaching further back, a declassified U.S. Army intelligence
document from 1919 reports on how Germans under occupation
viewed American soldiers during and after World War I.

The document "sketches the varying mental states which the
German mind experienced as the significance of America's entry
into the European theater of operations became generally
understood in Germany."

"An especial effort has been made to find all unfavorable
criticism. The following pages contain all of the unfavorable
criticism. That much of the comment is favorable is, therefore,
significant."

The 1919 document, which was prepared by the Intelligence
Section, General Staff, American Expeditionary Forces, was
belatedly declassified in 1990.

See "Candid Comment on The American Soldier of 1917-1918 and
Kindred Topics by The Germans: Soldiers, Priests, Women, Village
Notables, Politicians and Statesmen," (91 pages, 3.7 MB PDF
file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/army/wwi-soldiers.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Cammack

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:39:31 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:03:36 -0400
Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Cammack


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 01:22:54 -0700
>Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

<snip>

>I'm sure much of this due to outdoor Summer activities.

>What I don't understand, is why this bulge waits until July,
>then runs to November. A purely 'silly-season' effect of five
>months duration should run from May thru September instead.


One thing about the change in climate by seasons in the Southern
Hemisphere..... Unless you get way far south, most of the
Southern Hemisphere is closer to the Equator than the Northern
Hemisphere is, and so we have less severe winters here.

Thus, we are outside most of the year, summer and winter.
Indeed, we look forward to winter in Central Africa - dry,
pleasant days and clear nights (as opposed to summer, when its
hot, wet and cloudy).

That is different in Cape Town (which is the only place with
real European-type winter in Africa, with rain and clouds and
wind and cold). I am not sure how it is in South America, or the
rest of the Southern Hemisphere, but I think you cannot make the
assumption that weather is as cold in winter in the South - and
that people stay inside during the winter - as in the Northern
Hemisphere.


Diana








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                    Re: Alberta Investigator Need - Vike

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:12:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:06:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Alberta Investigator Need - Vike


Howdy do List

I am looking for a UFO Investigator for a case. The area the
sightings have been taking place at is High Prairie, Alberta,
Canada. We are talking about a single light traveling extremely
low in altitude and returning many a times to the same area. The
witnesses (business people) seen to be very creditable.

Something else which is interesting about this case is that one
of their neighbors found a number of circles on his farm. Not
crop circles. The lady I talked to is going to talk again with
this farmer so she can take some photos and email them to me
soon.

It certainly does sound like an interesting case. The lady
called me yesterday and we spent a lot of time talking about
this.

Also at 11:30 p.m. last night a call came in from two witnesses
from Kamloops, B.C. as they were watching something very unusual
over one of the local mountains. Then this morning a call came
in from a Trail, B.C. resident telling me what he saw on May 20,
this is more which most likely is associated to the May 19, 2004
sighting in Trail.

Anyway, if an investigator in Alberta would like to look into
the High Prairie case then please do write to me privately and I
will fill you in on everything and pass along the witnesses
contact information.


Take care

Brian








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

             Re: No More SEPRA In France CNES Official Confirms

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 18:51:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:11:47 -0400
Subject: Re: No More SEPRA In France CNES Official Confirms


>From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti.nul>
>To: PROJECT-1947.nul
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:25:47 +0200
>Subject: No More SEPRA In France CNES Official Confirms


>Some news about the destiny of the french SEPRA.

>I did an interview today with Arnaud Benedetti, who's in charge
>of the official communication of the French National Center for
>Space Studies (CNES).

>The interview, and my comments about it, are available here - in
>French:

>http://www.ovniland.com/article.php3?id_article=10

<snip>

>The SEPRA itself doesn't exist anymore since January 2004!

>Jean-Jacques Velasco is now "in charge of mission" (he doesn't
>lead any department anymore and acts alone). His mission deals
>with "rare aerospace phenomena".

>Nevertheless, discussions are opened (inside the CNES) about the
>possible creation of a "think tank" ("Comite de pilotage") for
>the establishement of a real program to study rare aerospace
>phenomena (needless to sy, the cursed "u" word is never used by
>CNES officials!).

>The CNES doesn't care about the public declarations of Jean-
>Jacques Velasco (in the media or in his book). It is not
>concerned at all with the conceptions expressed by him.

>Lets be optimistic: a GEPAN-like organization could arise in the
>following months... (Yes I know, I've always been TOO
>optimistic!).

To all,

I have read the interview of Gregory Gutierez with the director
of communication of CNES, Arnaud Benedetti. It confirms
information already given by a journalist of of the newspaper
"Sud-Ouest".

In short, yes, the "SEPRA" no longer exists, but Jean-Jacques
Velasco is still in charge of Ufos at CNES. Since he was alone
at the job, it's not a big deal.

So, the article of the French review "Ciel et Espace", entitled
"CNES buries UFOs" ("Le CNES enterre les ovnis") is
"exagerated", like a writer said after his death had been
announced by mistake. This article, very hostile to ufology,
says for instance that no serious study was published by GEPAN
and SEPRA : "just a few "technical notes" on problems of
methodology". Not a word on the Trans-en-Provence case, for
instance. At the end, sociologist Pierre Lagrange is quoted as
saying that "UFOs are a good subject of study for an array of
disciplines: from sociology, psychology, to atmospheric
physics". De profundis ufology !

A bizarre twist is that the article was published on the
internet a good week before the magazine appeared in newstands.
It looks like some people were very eager to see it published.

To me, it sounds like a little cabal which half failed,
fortunately. And I am not speaking of Richard Nolane, who, on
the contrary, rang the alarm bell. It is probably linked to the
recent publication of the book of Velasco UFOS: The Evidence,
affirming the reality of UFOs and their ET origin. Skeptics may
have thought that they had a good chance to get rid of him.


Gildas Bourdais








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 28

                Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:45:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:14:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Rudiak


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:40:37 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:07:12 -0600
>>Subject: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?


>>The lights (UFO's) shown in the video of march 05, 2004 provided
>>by the Mexican Air Force could be the heat source produced by
>>the flames of the oil wells located in the Oil field Cantarell
>>between 50 km to 90 km in the Gulf of Mexico, very close to the
>>shores of Ciudad del Carmen city in the Campeche's State and
>>within the range of the C26A FLIR camera at the moment of the
>>strange sighting.

>However, the most convincing visual evidence that the objects
>are not at ground level appears in the video around 17:06:43-45
>at which time the lights/object emerge from a cloud and, behind
>them is a dark area (cloud shaded from the sun). After they, one
>after another, pass the dark cloud they also pass in front of a
>bright cloud (lit by the sun).

>This proves that they were at cloud level and not on the
>ground.

Time to summarize. Sharpen your pencils. This is a multiple-
choice exam. The correct prosaic explanation offered by the
debunkers for the recent Mexican UFO sighting is:

A. A flotilla of U.S. supersecret stealth aircraft rendered
invisible by isoluminant technology, flying far from home in the
Gulf/Yucatan on some hard-to-fathom mission, and playing games
with the Mexican Air Force for God-knows-what reason.

B. Never-heard-of-before ball lightning or "atmospheric sparks"
created in non-stormy conditions, lasting tens of minutes,
flying 200+ mph through clouds, invisible to the eye, and
displaying intelligent behavior such as evasive maneuvers,
flying in formation, pacing and encircling the aircraft.

C. Meteors lasting tens of minutes, flying through clouds,
invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior, etc., etc.

D. Re-entering space debris lasting tens of minutes, flying
through clouds, invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior,
etc., etc.

E. A flotilla of hot air garbage bags, flying in a low-altitude,
200+ mph jetstream, passing through clouds unaffected by the
same jetstream, made of garbage bag material and using flames
also unaffected by 200+ mph winds, whose meager wire frames
create solid radar blips at 20+ miles, invisible to the eye,
displaying intelligent behavior, etc., etc.

F. Invisible, flying oil wells, etc., etc., etc.

G. A, C, and E, or B, D, and F, but only if on weekends and
during leap years.

H. All of the above.

I think that about covers it. Have I missed anything?


David Rudiak









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                 Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:42 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 05:36:25 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Hall


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:45:29 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

<snip>

>Time to summarize. Sharpen your pencils. This is a multiple-
>choice exam. The correct prosaic explanation offered by the
>debunkers for the recent Mexican UFO sighting is:

>A. A flotilla of U.S. supersecret stealth aircraft rendered
>invisible by isoluminant technology, flying far from home in the
>Gulf/Yucatan on some hard-to-fathom mission, and playing games
>with the Mexican Air Force for God-knows-what reason.

>B. Never-heard-of-before ball lightning or "atmospheric sparks"
>created in non-stormy conditions, lasting tens of minutes,
>flying 200+ mph through clouds, invisible to the eye, and
>displaying intelligent behavior such as evasive maneuvers,
>flying in formation, pacing and encircling the aircraft.

>C. Meteors lasting tens of minutes, flying through clouds,
>invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior, etc., etc.

>D. Re-entering space debris lasting tens of minutes, flying
>through clouds, invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior,
>etc., etc.

>E. A flotilla of hot air garbage bags, flying in a low-altitude,
>200+ mph jetstream, passing through clouds unaffected by the
>same jetstream, made of garbage bag material and using flames
>also unaffected by 200+ mph winds, whose meager wire frames
>create solid radar blips at 20+ miles, invisible to the eye,
>displaying intelligent behavior, etc., etc.

>F. Invisible, flying oil wells, etc., etc., etc.

>G. A, C, and E, or B, D, and F, but only if on weekends and
>during leap years.

>H. All of the above.

>I think that about covers it. Have I missed anything?


David,

That about covers it. Unless you want to include the ultimate
fallback position that, since it was released to Jamie Maussan
rather than to scientists whose minds are made up in advance,
it must be false.

I have some problems with Maussan's activities and reputation,
but in this case the objective evidence trumps all those pre-
emptive debunking comments.

At an absolute minimum, we have a very interesting, well-
documented event that any scientist worth his/her salt should be
intensely curious about and willing to investigate objectively,
not reflexively debunk it.


 - Dick








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

               Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:00:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 05:44:28 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Lehmberg


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:45:29 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

<snip>

>Time to summarize. Sharpen your pencils. This is a multiple-
>choice exam. The correct prosaic explanation offered by the
>debunkers for the recent Mexican UFO sighting is:

>A. A flotilla of U.S. supersecret stealth aircraft rendered
>invisible by isoluminant technology, flying far from home in the
>Gulf/Yucatan on some hard-to-fathom mission, and playing games
>with the Mexican Air Force for God-knows-what reason.

>B. Never-heard-of-before ball lightning or "atmospheric sparks"
>created in non-stormy conditions, lasting tens of minutes,
>flying 200+ mph through clouds, invisible to the eye, and
>displaying intelligent behavior such as evasive maneuvers,
>flying in formation, pacing and encircling the aircraft.

>C. Meteors lasting tens of minutes, flying through clouds,
>invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior, etc., etc.

>D. Re-entering space debris lasting tens of minutes, flying
>through clouds, invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior,
>etc., etc.

>E. A flotilla of hot air garbage bags, flying in a low-altitude,
>200+ mph jetstream, passing through clouds unaffected by the
>same jetstream, made of garbage bag material and using flames
>also unaffected by 200+ mph winds, whose meager wire frames
>create solid radar blips at 20+ miles, invisible to the eye,
>displaying intelligent behavior, etc., etc.

>F. Invisible, flying oil wells, etc., etc., etc.

>G. A, C, and E, or B, D, and F, but only if on weekends and
>during leap years.

>H. All of the above.

>I think that about covers it. Have I missed anything?


...Soaring lighthouses and gassy pelicans? If they weren't
mentioned I'm sure it's an oversight. Someone please get on the
red phone to Andy Roberts and see if _he_ doesn't have the dead-
lock on this universal nut! Perhaps it's one of his 'ethical'
hoaxes.


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                 Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:06:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 05:47:06 -0400
Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings? - Hatch


>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:39:31 +0200
>Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 01:22:54 -0700
>>Subject: Re: End Of Year Bias In Sightings?

><snip>

>>I'm sure much of this due to outdoor Summer activities.

>>What I don't understand, is why this bulge waits until July,
>>then runs to November. A purely 'silly-season' effect of five
>>months duration should run from May thru September instead.

>One thing about the change in climate by seasons in the
>Southern Hemisphere..... Unless you get way far south, most of
>the Southern Hemisphere is closer to the Equator than the
>Northern Hemisphere is, and so we have less severe winters here.

>Thus, we are outside most of the year, summer and winter.
>Indeed, we look forward to winter in Central Africa - dry,
>pleasant days and clear nights (as opposed to summer, when its
hot, wet and cloudy).

>That is different in Cape Town (which is the only place with
>real European-type winter in Africa, with rain and clouds and
>wind and cold). I am not sure how it is in South America, or the
>rest of the Southern Hemisphere, but I think you cannot make the
>assumption that weather is as cold in winter in the South - and
>that people stay inside during the winter - as in the Northern
>Hemisphere.


Hi Diana:

Points all well taken. My Dad came from Southern Rhodesia BTW.
Please see my separate post with separate numbers for N and S
Hemispheres.  Numbers for SH are too small to make any
statistical assumptions, but sightings frequencies seem much
more evenly spread over the year compared to the NH.

There remains a July bulge, even in the SH, suggesting that some
other factors are work, perhaps demographic, which do not depend
on hemispheres. It gets quite cold in parts of Chile and
Argentina in their winter, which is during our Summer. Those two
countries (along with Brazil) make up a major chunk of my SH
data. African cases are hard to come by.


Best

- Larry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                     Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:19:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 05:49:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Rimmer


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:55:51 -0500
>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:11:54 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>And, as a point of interest, have you actually read Diego
>>Zuniga's article?

>No! ...And for the same reason I don't take reading suggestions
>from Kal K. Korff or Ernst Zundel. For you, though, let me go
>winnow it out and see if it is as predicted, right this moment.
>I'll be fair...

>(Pause for research...)

Ah, so as I suspected you shot off your opaque response to my
simple announcement of the placing of an article on the Magonia
websote before you actually read it.

And guess what....

>...GAWD! What a waste of my precious time... just as I had
>predicted. You see, sir, this article was just another of the
>artfully dismissive pieces that Magonia is famous for which
>tries to convincingly to discredit the ufological macrocosm by
>investigating a spurious item in the microcosm, find 'it'
>wanting... and then use _it_ as a devise to cast aspersions on
>the ufological macrocosm. In other words (as you admit needing
>them), it's a man of literary straw (duplicitously resplendent
>and professionally concise in 18 citations and 2 appendices!)
>that is more easily knocked over so you can discredit the whole
>of serious ufology. You fool no one with this exercise.

when you did get round to reading it, at my prompting, you
appear to have comandeered it into your own Magonian conspiracy
theory.

>If you were really on the ball and wanted to be taken seriously
>by your target audience

I'm interested who you think out target audince might be.

>you'd be able to do the same thing with
>(or write a positive piece about):

>1. Kirtland AFB (11\4\57)
>2. Hynek Blue Book Case (5\5\65)
>3. Malmstrom AFB (3/20/67)
>4. Incident at Redlands, Ca. (Hynek, BB, 2\4\68)
>5. Exeter, New Hampshire (9\3\65)
>6. Malmstrom AFB (11\7\75)
>7. Iran F-4 Incident (9\76)
>8. Belgium (1989\90)
>9. Illinois, USA (1\5\2000)

Is this meant to be a list of 9 best cases? I've often had
difficulty in getting UFO proponents to nominate such cases.
They may be worth a look.

>... and make your convincing case in an equal number of
>citations and appendices! We don't see a lot (any?) of _that_,
>sir. Moreover, the last time your fellow pelicanists tried to
>make a cogent anti-point with (refute) a strong case was
>Trindade, and that pointless little exercise only cost you more
>of your dwindling credibility.

As I recall it (and the correspondence is archived on UpDates -
the pro- Trindade brigade made a tactical retreat when the
going got tough, and we've heard precious little from them since

>Lately, with regard to the latest
>Mexico flap, you and yours are quick to trot out planet
>sightings, swamp gas, ground-fires, and radar echoes (...Andy
>Roberts flying lighthouses...?) ... further weakening your grip
>on an anti-ufological haft. ...Feel it slipping?

The only thing that appears to be slipping around here is your
ability to read UpDates. Me and mine have made no comment
whatsoever on the Mexican case, as we are waiting to read the
official Mexican military report. If one or two "bungee-
sceptics" (who dive into ufology from the outside, come up with
some top-of-head 'explanation' then bounce back out again) have
decided to make fools of themselves, that's nothing to do with
me (or 'mine' whoever they may be!).

>The only
>'courage' you're showing is the ongoing temerity to be dogmatic
>when you're wrong.

>>Yours in bafflement...

>Few on this List buy that, I think, but if it floats your
>boat... just don't try wearing the cloak of the cited evenhanded
>in my presence, sir. I'll be throwing a flag on it. Your bias
>is plain, your cant unmistakable, and your prejudice is laid
>bare.

Translation, please.

>...but do try to hang on, sir. It's fun to watch, it's fuel on
>your opposition's fire, and, finally, it's a demonstration that
>the best you've got... is not very good.

>I trust that this was, a little, clearer?

Indubitably

>alienview.nul

>EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
>http://www.alienview.net

>JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
>He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
>one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
>gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
>-- $300.00 collected!

Let's hope the missing 150 dollars turns up soon!

>"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
>What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
>- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                       Trail British Colimbia 05-20-04

From: Brian Vike <hbccufo <hbccufo.nul>>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:12:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 05:52:36 -0400
Subject: Trail British Colimbia 05-20-04


Howdy List,

Since I just reported on some new sighting a couple hours or so
again, another report came in from Salmo, British Columbia. I
missed the call but the gentleman left a message on my answering
machine, gave a short description and also added he had some
very interesting photos he wanted to get to me. I will be
calling him back at 3:00 p.m. today.

Trail, British Columbia

Date:  May 20, 2004
Time:  10:15 p.m.

A fellow called to file a report over something he thought was
unusual. He said the weather condition weren't that great and it
was very overcast. The witness poured himself and cup of coffee
and went and sat outside. While watching the sky with a limited
view he saw in the northeast a dimly lit green light which was
just below the cloud cover. It was funny as he said he rubbed
his eyes to make sure what he was observing was really there,
plus he ran quickly back into the house to get his glasses. When
he came back out there was the same green light and another one
following slowly behind approximately 2 to 3 kilometers in
distance from the first.

The two green lights were moving very slow and even though the
lights were not extremely bright the witness said he was still
able to see the texture of the clouds as the green objects lit
up the clouds as they flew along. Also the man noticed that when
the objects passed over head his short wave radio started acting
up as he was able to hear it. Once the lights had moved from his
general area the radio seemed to be fine.

The witness said he was able to view the lights for
approximately a couple of minutes. keeping in mind this was a
long time to watch this event due to his limited view of the
sky. The lights traveled on a straight line not making any
unusual maneuvers. There was no sound heard. Also what is
interesting is that a few calls had come into the Trail RCMP
over the sightings that had taken place on May 19, 2004.

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike
Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                 3 Needed To Help In 32-Year-Old UFO Mystery

From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 19:26:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 06:00:28 -0400
Subject: 3 Needed To Help In 32-Year-Old UFO Mystery


All,

FYI.

-----

Source: Turks.US

http://www.turks.us/article.php?story040214135344811

02-14-04


A FORMER Territorian is trying to track down three people to help him
solve a 32-year-old UFO mystery. Rodney Jarvis, 55, claims a huge UFO
hovered above him for a number of minutes at Darwin Airport in 1972.

Mr Jarvis, a Melbourne company credit manager, is writing a book on his
life and wants to devote a chapter on the NT incident. The former oil
rig worker said he was at the airport waiting to catch a 6am flight to
the Timor Sea when he was confronted by a large bright round object.

"I had been asleep in a car that a chap had driven me to the airport in
when I woke about 5am," Mr Jarvis said. "I got out to stretch and saw
this bright orange light moving just above houses about 1km west of the
airport.

It was doing 20km/h and I thought it was a helicopter as it was going
so slow. But then it started zig-zagging towards me and suddenly it was
about 150m above me. It just stopped dead in its tracks.

It was about half the size of a house, bright orange on the bottom and
dark grey to black on the top. I woke up Fred, the chap whose car it
was.

Then I started turning the car lights on and off trying to communicate
with whatever it was.

Fred was yelling out I was mad.

He became panic stricken and took off and hid behind a building.

I kept flashing the lights and did some signals with them in morse
code.

After a few seconds a blue light, like a laser beam came from the
centre of the object repeating some of the morse code I had sent.

I was spellbound.

Fred was still yelling at me from behind the building. Then a car came
racing towards us. It was two airport security guys.

They got out and stood next to me and said: 'What the hell's that?'
They couldn't believe it.

Then it started moving up slowly and in a split second it took off in
an arc that would have been about 30km and it was gone over the
horizon. The two security guys ran to their car and sped away. They
didn't say another word.

I rang the local Darwin radio station and they told me they had
received many calls from people living in the area claiming to have
seen an unusual orange light hovering about the suburbs."

Mr Jarvis said he didn't know Fred's last name because he had only met
him the night before at a city hostel. He said Fred, who he thought was
20, had told him his father was the caretaker at the Darwin German
Club.

"One of the security guards would have been in his 30s and the other in
his 40s. I'd really like to track them down to help me include a
chapter in the book on the incredible experience we
all witnessed," Mr Jarvis said.

-----


Walt Williams
SETV








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Taylor

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:14:17 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 06:04:05 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Taylor


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:45:29 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>Time to summarize. Sharpen your pencils. This is a multiple-
>choice exam. The correct prosaic explanation offered by the
>debunkers for the recent Mexican UFO sighting is:

<snip>

>I think that about covers it. Have I missed anything?


David,

Like yourself, everyone is entitled to an opinion on this case.
Right or wrong opinions may be settled in the end if undeniable
proof of the nature of the objects is identified.

These objects are one of two things...

1. Genuine UFOs
2. Man made devices.

We can obviously rule out the meteor, ball lightning, super
secret stealth aircraft, re-entering space debris and oil well
flames. These just do not add up.

I see no display of intelligent behaviour of the objects in the
footage. They remain in formation in all sections of the clips.
They also vary in brightness (flicker?) note the leading object
in the two groups of three objects in particular.

You can not rule out the man made lighter than air devices that
I have suggested. I have seen many of these in action and they
move the same as in the Mexican footage. My image enhancements
show identical features. I have tested the evidence. This is my
results.

When a lighter than air device like the hot air balloons is
drifting in a 200 m/h air current, the flame will remain
unaffected by the speed of the wind because the while device is
moving at the same speed. The flame in the hoax devices is also
protected from outside conditions to a great degree because it
is burning up inside the bag hence protected from excess wind.

The 'Twins' have a second illumination directly underneath. This
is not a phantom lens reflection from the convex lens in the
zoom lens, they appear to be attached to the main object. This
is a known feature of the hoax device. I have an excellent
example of this on video of a hoax device filmed using infrared.
These secondary smaller objects should change position during
the footage if they were lens reflection, but they do not.

A lighter than air device will also move faster than the bulk of
clouds. I have seen this here.

My analysis results does not make me a debunker or sceptic, long
way from it. My tests on the photographic evidence when compared
to known hoax type objects points me toward my conclusions. This
is a much more solid basis to stake my claim than just watching
the video footage then commenting.


Barry Taylor








                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                        Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 06:13:26 -0400
Subject: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo


List,

I just wrote the following for my blog, Posthuman
Blues.  For the hyperlinked version, visit:

http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com

--Mac


Whitley Strieber's site has seized on the Parque Forestal
"alien" photo I linked to a few posts back.

http://www.elcajon.cl/ovniaventura/parquef.htm

When presented with anomalous photos taken with digital cameras,
the prevailing tendency is to chalk any weirdness up to
Photoshop retouching. Certainly a great many "astonishing"
photos - probably the majority - are clever fabrications. But
the more I look at the entity in the Parque Forestal image, the
more I'm intrigued. It has a certain implacable quality... I
find myself unable to write this one off.

Remember the scene in "Signs" where you catch a videotaped
glimpse of a tall green-skinned alien paying a surprise visit to
a children's birthday party? The new digital photo has something
of the same aspect. Someone on UFO UpDates has understandably
poked fun at the image, pointing out that the "little man" isn't
noticed by anyone else in the picture (including the horses).

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m26-020.shtml

But if I'm right about "alien" manifestations, most encounters
take place on the very periphery of normal consciousness. I
don't think it's an accident that so many compelling UFO and
entity photos have surfaced without the photographer's realizing
anything was there; our brains are not dispassionate
instruments; they're useful, albeit limited, filtering
mechanisms. Maybe our cameras, mindless and increasingly
ubiquitous, have the potential to bridge the world of waking
human consciousness with wherever perceived "aliens" and related
beings come from. Jung called it the collective unconscious.
Jacques Vallee called it Magonia...

Ask yourself: If the diminutive being in the Parque Forestal
photo crossed your path, would you notice? Look at the image.
He/she/it appears to be walking pretty damned fast. It could
easily be in and out of sight within a couple seconds - and
that's assuming it's confined to normal bipedal locomotion.
Maybe you'd see a blur of movement and chalk it up to a small
animal or lack of sleep.

I think this latest image from the edge deserves the best
scientific investigation possible. Can it be reproduced? Were
there witnesses? What can the location tell us about any
possible history of "weird" encounters? Who is that little guy?

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                         P-47: Intelligence or R&D?

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:56:15 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 06:18:45 -0400
Subject: P-47: Intelligence or R&D?


Hi List,

In an off-list discussion the following subject came up which I
thought I might bring to your attention - again - and see if I
get any response:

I think Ufologists think "Intelligence" is "sexier" and more
conspiratorial so if UFO projects were recognized to have
actually been under R&D or "Materiel" (which makes one think of
procurement of aircraft seats and commissary supplies) then it
would be a kind of demotion in status for UFO's. And Ufologists
will not tolerate the slightest demotion in status no matter
what the truth may be.

I think that therefore there is a deliberate refusal of Ufology
to recognize that SIGN-GRUDGE were under the direct command of
R&D/Materiel and NOT under Intelligence, and that BLUE BOOK
remained heavily under R&D direction and support until it was
"recaptured." There was a constant bureaucratic tug-o-war.
Intelligence "captured" away the entire AMC Intelligence Dept
from R&D/Materiel in 1951 (SIGN and GRUDGE were components of
Air Materiel Command AMC). AF Intelligence formed ATIC from it
but ATIC continued to function embedded in a support structure
under R&D/Materiel at Wright-Pat - until R&D recaptured back
ATIC in 1961 and turned it into the Foreign Technology Division
of the AF Systems Command (i.e., AF R&D). The fact that Project
BLUE BOOK functioned under Air Force R&D during its last decade
from 1961 to its closure in Jan 1970 seems not to faze anyone in
Ufology. Overall, the UFO projects at Wright-Pat always
functioned directly under R&D, or heavily supported and
influenced by R&D from 1947 to 1970.

This did not mean of course that the low-level UFO projects at
Wright-Pat were automatically privy to other compartments of the
vast AF Research & Development complex, as they did not have
need-to-know for everything. But it does certainly mean that the
UFO projects were relatively isolated from the mainstream of AF
Intelligence, both organizationally and geographically.
Activities at Wright-Pat tell us little of what was going on at
the Pentagon, where I have considerable evidence the real action
was going on. When the UFO projects were more directly in the AF
Intelligence loop we get more snippets of what was going on in
Intelligence through a slightly more open window, but that's all
it is, snippets.

Here is a test to see if Ufology has really progressed any in
the nearly 50 years since, say Ruppelt, in its historical
understanding of government involvement with UFO's. Provocative
questions for discussion, and tell me what evidence you have,
pro or con, one side or the other. Answering these questions may
reveal what kinds of preconceived notions are blocking you from
perceiving historical realities

1. Who was really in charge of the most highly secret UFO-
related activity, the Air Staff in the Pentagon or the field
commands at Wright-Pat in Ohio? Or the infamous CIA or the
alleged MJ-12 Committee? Describe how they got into that
position of power with as many names and dates as you can
muster, so one can see the origins clearly, i.e., who issued the
orders and why? Where is the paper trail to support your version
of history?

2. Who was Ruppelt's mysterious "Dr. X" who predicted the
Washington National incidents in advance and how did he do it?
What clues are there as to his identity?

3. Who was the mysterious scientist who reviewed the Lubbock
Lights case among others and concluded they were
extraterrestrial spacecraft? What clues are there as to his
identity?

4. Were the military services such as the Navy and the AF all on
good terms with each other during the Cold War? Who was on whose
side? Did the CIA get along with the AF and vice versa? Know of
any documents to tip us off as to bureaucratic realities here?
Are you familiar with the term "interservice rivalry" and if so
what does it mean and how might it have affected the subject at
hand, any ideas? Who was the head of the CIA in 1952 and how
might the preceding questions relate to his identity and its
impact on history here?

5. What was the largest _and_ most powerful agency of the entire
United States Government in 1952? Why was that so, historically,
politically? Did it remain so? How does that affect the
conspiracy theory equations, as to who was really in charge
"behind the scenes"?

6. If you think Ufology has done a pretty good job in uncovering
classified government UFO secrets and understanding them, and
maybe you think MJ-12 is real not fiction, please then name the
multi-billion-dollar national-level US intelligence
organizations whose names, budgets and very existence were
classified for many years and may still be (no, sorry, I'm not
talking about the NRO or NPIC here).

7. Have you heard of the "two sides" of the CIA and if so what
are they and how do they differ in function and security
sensitivity? When did this rough dichotomy of the CIA first
become public knowledge and when if ever did Ufology absorb this
knowledge, has Ufology applied it or shown it understands it?
What major function of the CIA topped the budget and manpower
allocations in the 50's, overwhelming all else, and within that
functional category what was the overwhelmingly dominant
fuctional activity?

Unless you "cc" me directly I won't get any responses for a day,
in my Daily Digests of this List, and won't be able to respond
for a day.


Regards,

Brad Sparks








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

               Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:39:56 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:59:37 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Friedman


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:42 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:45:29 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

><snip>

>>Time to summarize. Sharpen your pencils. This is a multiple-
>>choice exam. The correct prosaic explanation offered by the
>>debunkers for the recent Mexican UFO sighting is:

>>A. A flotilla of U.S. supersecret stealth aircraft rendered
>>invisible by isoluminant technology, flying far from home in the
>>Gulf/Yucatan on some hard-to-fathom mission, and playing games
>>with the Mexican Air Force for God-knows-what reason.

>>B. Never-heard-of-before ball lightning or "atmospheric sparks"
>>created in non-stormy conditions, lasting tens of minutes,
>>flying 200+ mph through clouds, invisible to the eye, and
>>displaying intelligent behavior such as evasive maneuvers,
>>flying in formation, pacing and encircling the aircraft.

>>C. Meteors lasting tens of minutes, flying through clouds,
>>invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior, etc., etc.
> >
>>D. Re-entering space debris lasting tens of minutes, flying
>>through clouds, invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior,
>>etc., etc.

>>E. A flotilla of hot air garbage bags, flying in a low-altitude,
>>200+ mph jetstream, passing through clouds unaffected by the
>>same jetstream, made of garbage bag material and using flames
>>also unaffected by 200+ mph winds, whose meager wire frames
>>create solid radar blips at 20+ miles, invisible to the eye,
>>displaying intelligent behavior, etc., etc.

>>F. Invisible, flying oil wells, etc., etc., etc.

>>G. A, C, and E, or B, D, and F, but only if on weekends and
>>during leap years.

>>H. All of the above.

>>I think that about covers it. Have I missed anything?

>David,

>That about covers it. Unless you want to include the ultimate
>fallback position that, since it was released to Jamie Maussan
>rather than to scientists whose minds are made up in advance,
>it must be false.

>I have some problems with Maussan's activities and reputation,
>but in this case the objective evidence trumps all those pre-
>emptive debunking comments.

>At an absolute minimum, we have a very interesting, well-
>documented event that any scientist worth his/her salt should be
>intensely curious about and willing to investigate objectively,
>not reflexively debunk it.

I am in full agreement with Dick, but would like to add one more
stupid explanation to David's list, namely that it was all a
Mexican government hoax to draw media attention away from an
ongoing big corruption scandal down there!. Which idea was
actually put forth.


Stan Friedman
www.stantonfriedman.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                  Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:16:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:02:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Shell


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

>I just wrote the following for my blog, Posthuman
>Blues. For the hyperlinked version, visit:

>http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com

I think the challenge here is to look at it and try not to see
an little alien. Like we did with the photo of the Beveridge,
Australia, "saucer", which many could also see as a winged
beetle. It's like one of those optical illusion pictures, where
you can either see a young woman or an old hag, depending on
your predisposition.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/brisray/optill/woman.gif

The similarity to the "Dover Demon" sketches might further
influence us in seeing what might not actually be there:

http://members.aol.com/soccorro64/demonpics.htm

So maybe it looks like a little humanoid walking. But how many
legs? Two or three? And what about the head? Is it facing to the
right, like a chicken trying to cross the road, or is it looking
at the photographer, and displaying its large, buggy eyes and
large, slightly orange nose?

And here's another curious thing about the original photo with
the horses. Why is the horse on the right leaning at such an odd
angle? I don't know, maybe it was just a bad scan, but it also
suggests that there's something funny going on with the entire
photo, not just the little alien part.

Cute little bugger, through, if true. Might make a nice little
pet if it can be housebroken.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                    Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:35:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:15:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:19:49 +0100
>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:55:51 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:11:54 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

<snip>

>>JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
>>He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
>>one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
>>gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
>>-- $300.00 collected!

>Let's hope the missing 150 dollars turns up soon!


I missed this before. Thanks for going out of your way to
provide a shining example of just how marvelously uninformed you
can be. You see, with regard to John Ford and the tragedy of his
scurrilous incarceration, you don't know what you're talking
about!

Ford was (and is!) an innocent investigator neatly hamstrung for
having the temerity to lawfully investigate a proven (read
PROVEN!) criminal elite, one John Powell, the 'Boss' of a
corrupt political machine in a New York county _infamous_ for
its entrenched, systemic, pervasive, institutional, and
_unceasing_ (even traditional!) corruption...

John Ford is a _victim_, Mr. Rimmer, and not easily fobbed off
even with the 'clever' repartee of an officious and
unenlightened British pelicanist. Your contribution to his fund
would be appreciated, sir, so I can think, just a little, better
of you than I do... presently. That 150 dollars is _yours_ Mr.
Rimmer. As things stand (?), you're in arrears.


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                              Transit Of Venus

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:38:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:21:14 -0400
Subject: Transit Of Venus


Transit of Venus


Transit of Venus 2004 [pdf, Microsoft Word, jpeg]

http://www.venustransit.ie/


The Venus Transit 2004 [jpeg]

http://www.vt-2004.org/


Transit of Venus [mpg, Macromedia Flash Player]

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/sunearthday/2004/index_vthome.htm


2004 and 2012 Transits of Venus

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/transit/venus0412.html


Transit of Venus, June 8th, 2004 [gif]

http://didaktik.physik.uni-essen.de/~backhaus/VenusProject.htm


Project Venus 2004 [pdf]

http://eclipse.astroinfo.org/transit/venus/project2004/


The Rarest Eclipse: Transit of Venus [Macromedia Flash Player, pdf,
Microsoft Word]

http://www.exploratorium.com/venus/index.html


The 1882 Transit of Venus: Observations from Wellington, South
Africa [pdf]

http://www.saao.ac.za/~wpk/tov1882/tovwell.html


The Transit of Venus is similar to a solar eclipse, where - from
the perspective on Earth - Venus passes in front of the Sun.
This event does not happen very often. In fact, no one alive
today has experienced this phenomenon, which will take place on
June 8 and will be visible for most of Europe, Asia, and Africa.

First, the Armagh Planetarium created a great, expansive
informational site all about the Transit of Venus (1).

Users can find basic facts, observing information, histories of
past transits, and much more. Next, the European Southern
Observatory presents the VT-2004 project's aim to gain knowledge
and encourage public interest in the event (2).

Users can observe Venus's progression towards the transit with
the daily images from April 17, 2004 to present news updates.
Educators can discover transit-related activities and
educational materials. The third site, created by NASA,
discusses the details of the Sun-Earth Connection Education
Forum and San Francisco's Exploratorium's live webcast of the
Transit (3).

The site supplies enjoyable, educational materials for students,
educators, museums, scientists, and amateur astronomers. The
next site, also created by NASA, provides an introduction to the
Venus Transits that will take place June 2004 and 2012 (4).

Visitors can find helpful figures and text about the geographic
visibility of the events. The site offers an observer's handbook
as well as a discussion about the predictions of the event.
Next, Professor Backhaus presents a project where schools,
amateur astronomers, and universities will collaborate to gather
transit data and learn about observing (5).

Users can discover the six parts of the project as well as learn
how to participate in the worldwide endeavor. The sixth site
also discusses a Venus Transit project (6).

Endorsed by the Astronomical Association of Zurich, this
project's goals are to process data collected by amateur
astronomers by different observation methods, to act as a data
exchange center, and to determine the astronomical unit. Next,
the Exploratorium furnishes general information about the
Transit, its history, how viewers observe it, what it looks
like, and why it is an important event (7).

Users can find out about the live webcast that will begin on
June 7, 2004 from Athens, Greece. Educators can find student
activities developed to integrate discussions into the
classroom.

Lastly, Willie Koorts, an employee at the South African
Astronomical Observatory, recounts the observations of
scientists in Africa of the last transit of Venus (8). The site
contains many historical photographs along with informational
diagrams and figures. [RME]


From The NSDL Scout Report for the Physical Sciences, Copyright
Internet Scout Project 1994-2003.

http://scout.wisc.edu/


- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                     UFO Maneuvers Close To Jet Airliner

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 11:04:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:54:50 -0400
Subject: UFO Maneuvers Close To Jet Airliner


Hi List

I'd been waiting for some footage from a witness who caught an
unknown object. He lives in Sonora, California.

It arrived and when I first ran the video I noticed a jet
airliner and 'something' else which moved around the sky rather
quickly.

When I ran the tape back and slowed the footage down I clearly
see the airliner and an 'object'.

It appears from behind the jet a short distance away and travels
up and down in the sky passing on the opposite side of the jet's
contrail.

The object covers a large area in the sky in a short period of
time. Matter of fact, the object then appears to sit
stationary... I am not exactly sure how long the object stays in
sight as I have to watch the tape again, but the witness catches
the object for a good length of time.

This footage is definitely interesting.

There is also footage on the way from other people in different
areas. Plus I have some still shots coming from Salmo, B.C. that
I believe everyone is going to enjoy looking at. I was certainly
surprised when I was able to see what the follow took from the
mountains in Salmo, British Columbia.

Once I have all the photos I will scan them in and post
everything in sequence.


Brian Vike
Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 29

                 Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:19:24 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:57:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Tonnies


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:16:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

>>I just wrote the following for my blog, Posthuman
>>Blues. For the hyperlinked version, visit:

>>http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com


>I think the challenge here is to look at it and try not to see
>an little alien. Like we did with the photo of the Beveridge,
>Australia, "saucer", which many could also see as a winged
>beetle. It's like one of those optical illusion pictures, where
>you can either see a young woman or an old hag, depending on
>your predisposition.

I totally agree. I spent some time last night trying to do just
that. No luck so far. If it's a bona fide optical illusion, it's
a good one.

To me, the "head" appears to be facing the camera. The "eyes"
are somewhat orange.

And is it just me or does this little guy look like Ilkley Moor
alien?

http://ufocasebook.com/ilkleymoor.html


=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

Pre-order "After the Martian Apocalypse": in bookstores July 6!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/074348293X






                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

              Really Hard Up Debunker Explanations For Mexican

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:29:49 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:14:01 -0400
Subject: Really Hard Up Debunker Explanations For Mexican


Let's raise the absurdity bar!

Since the debunkers are running out of absurd text book
explanations, let's raise the bar and have some fun.

I take it the 'How To Debunk Any UFO Report' handbook hasn't
been updated recently. It might be due to the over abundance of
'X Ray Specs' and 'Build Your Own Sub' advertisements. Doesn't
that booklet have a fold-in back cover as well?

Here we go:

They're not UFOs they're Keebler Cookie Elves with itty bitty
graham cracker crust covered jets.

Leprechauns. Everybody believes in leprechauns. Those devious
wee folk are at it again.

Pixies. When elves and leprechauns fail, you break out the big
guns with the pixie explanation. If someone doubts it throw them
a curve and tell them to ask their 5 year old daughter or
granddaughter. That'll keep em' occupied til we whip something
else up.

Kids. It's kids. Everyone will appreciate a precocious pre-teen
with a penchant for hacking radar and FLIR. We'll find some kid
to take the fall. Say he did it from a school computer.

Bugs. No one mentioned bugs! Ha! We've got them! We can say
they're a rare collection of Mexican Lightning Bugs that fly in
swarms in the upper atmosphere and on occasion have mistaken
aircraft for possible mates. Icky but sufficient.

Angels. Don't say demons or you'll scare the kids. No one is
going to argue about angels because then someone will beat them
up.

Car lights. Yes, automobiles on the ground's headlights
reflected from the clouds. Heck, the sighting was during the day
so let's say that it was a funeral procession. That's why they
had their headlights on.

Fart Lighting. That's the answer. Tell them that gaseous
emissions from people and livestock ignited due to the static
electricity caused by the ions in the clouds. They'll laugh so
hard they won't think of investigating again.

Ghosts. It's gotta be ghosts when all else fails. That'll jam up
the talk show lines with people who've seen ghosts so that no
credible scientist can get a word in edgewise.

Last but not least, when all else fails, when push comes to
shove the old " Luminescent refraction ionizational
enturbulating coalescent pulse emission frazzilstatsis " trick
always works. The term is so stupid that it will take weeks
before they figure it out.






                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                   Planetary Patriotism Gets Formal Boost

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:39:45 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:17:42 -0400
Subject: Planetary Patriotism Gets Formal Boost


Attention, Independent-minded Earthlings!

Planetary Patriotism Gets A Formal Boost This Coming Fourth Of July

By Larry W. Bryant

This would-be paradigm-shifting codification of humanity's role
and autonomy in the universe  -  and of all other civilizations'
inherent obligation to accept, honor, and help preserve that
Earthly status  - consists of the carefully crafted "Declaration
of Human Sovereignty Regarding Contact with Extraterrestrial
Nations and Forces."

Reading like an official manifesto issued by (or at) UN
headquarters, the 1,600-word document came to my attention
during the X-Conference held in Gaithersburg, Md., on April 17-
18, 2004. During the conference's closing hours, I revisited
the vendors table tended by a group promoting the exophilosophy
of one Marshall Vian Summers. There I found supporter Michael
Brownlee, who was handing out copies of the declaration in
poster form.

Not one to pass up any form of free UFOlit, I happily grabbed a
couple of copies. In a flash of creative empathy, I realized the
collectibility and inspirational value of this document, whose
opening paragraph begins on as positive a note as possible: "We,
the People of Earth, extend greetings to all peoples in the
Greater Community of the Universe." How much more magnanimous
can a manifesto be?

Brownlee explained that the formal roll-out of this cosmic Magna
Carta will occur on, fittingly enough, this coming Independence
Day. It represents, he said, a concerted effort of several
(human) minds committed to incorporating all the "fundamental
rights," "the assessment" of key issues, and the pertinent
"demands and declarations" into a single document calling for
consideration by "those supporting the cause of freedom
throughout the Greater Community."

Once you get past the document's lofty verbiage, you certainly
can appreciate the gravity of its message: that humans have an
inviolate place in the universe; that no extraterrestrial
visitor (the ultimate undocumented alien) has a right to
interfere with or otherwise preempt our free will; and that,
above all, we have the right to be let alone. A statement of the
obvious, you might say. But one that, in these times of
escalated intra-Earth crises, deserves stating and restating.
(And perhaps our merely seeing copies of the document here and
there can help us realize, as Ronald Reagan apparently did, that
our Earth-based social ills pale in comparison to what may await
us from afar.)

For example, the final observation in the declaration's
"Assessment" section notes that "Extraterrestrial forces have
systematically attempted to persuade and mislead humans through
extending false hopes and promises of advanced technology,
wealth, power and protection, rescue from planetary catastrophe,
membership in a galactic federation, and spiritual salvation and
enlightenment."

But the best comes last  -  in the section labeled "Demands and
Declarations." Its language rises to the level of political
poetry, and I prefer that you view it in toto, via the web site
of http://www.humansovereignty.net .

Upon my departure from Brownlee's table, I remarked that I might
write something about this milestone in UFO-E.T. cultural
interaction. As you read this write-up, please consider these
points left untreated by the declaration:

(1) If, as xenologist Charles Fort conjectured, we are (and
always have been) the property (i.e., slaves  -  if not the
progeny) of some E.T. race(s), then we flat out have no rights
at all in their (wrap-around) eyes. So the declaration may be
worth less than its computer printout. Time for a cosmic Gandhi
here?

(2) Some of the unwelcome E.T. visitors may be our galactic
cousins (doing all-too-human things to, and with, us)  -  our
being the equivalent of officially unacknowledged, bastardized
offspring of a strain of alien Thomas Jeffersons.

(3) About this prospect of Colony Earth: WWBFS  -  What Would
Ben Franklin Say?

In the meantime, this us-against-them declaration remains strong





                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                  Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Booth

From: Billy Booth <Ufocasebook.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:14:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:20:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Booth


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

You are right about it looking very similar to the Ilkley Moor
alien.

By the way, on the website you listed, I have recently added the
original picture. I had been trying to get it for some time,
finally got someone in the U K to send it over. It is completely
different than I thought it would be, a very long shot photo.
that is why the alleged alien was somewhat blurry.

As to the Chilean photo, I don't know enough about photography
to comment on the photo-taker's explanation as to why it was
such a blurry picture.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                    Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:02:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:22:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50 - Lehmberg


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:19:49 +0100
>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:55:51 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:11:54 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 50

>>>And, as a point of interest, have you actually read Diego
>>>Zuniga's article?

>>No! ...And for the same reason I don't take reading suggestions
>>from Kal K. Korff or Ernst Zundel. For you, though, let me go
>>winnow it out and see if it is as predicted, right this moment.
>>I'll be fair...

>>(Pause for research...)

>Ah, so as I suspected you shot off your opaque response to my
>simple announcement of the placing of an article on the Magonia
>websote before you actually read it.

You make that sound like a bad thing. Even you, sir, would have
to agree
that in this high density media saturation of accelerating communicational
potentiality... some economy and discretion has to be employed to keep a
newsy nose above water. This necessary winnowing of the field precludes
writers (such as they are) like Korff and Zundel or anything you might
recommend. I'll stand by what I won't read just like I'll stand by what I
do read. By way of example... I think it likely that you aren't an avid
reader of my poetic commentary. Forgetting what a profound disappointment
that is to me personally... I'll survive.

>And guess what....

Your impacted worldview has 'imploded' a little more!

>>...GAWD! What a waste of my precious time... just as I had
>>predicted. You see, sir, this article was just another of the
>>artfully dismissive pieces that Magonia is famous for which
>>tries to convincingly to discredit the ufological macrocosm by
>>investigating a spurious item in the microcosm, find 'it'
>>wanting... and then use _it_ as a devise to cast aspersions on
>>the ufological macrocosm. In other words (as you admit needing
>>them), it's a man of literary straw (duplicitously resplendent
>>and professionally concise in 18 citations and 2 appendices!)
>>that is more easily knocked over so you can discredit the whole
>>of serious ufology. You fool no one with this exercise.

>when you did get round to reading it, at my prompting, you
>appear to have comandeered it into your own Magonian conspiracy
>theory.

Well - you call it what you want. I think it's a little
suspicious that you're the first to broach the concept of a
"Magonian conspiracy" when all I said was that you were
depending on logical fallacy to keep your specious arguments
afloat. That _is_ curious! Having produced a cited paper of my
own that explores the sociopathic roots of even cosmic
conspiracies (vis a vis their predicted ability to generate and
hide in plain sight) I think this is interesting and almost an
admission of some kind... hmmmm.


>>If you were really on the ball and wanted to be taken seriously
>>by your target audience

>I'm interested who you think out target audince might be.

Would that be persons interested in _rationality_ regarding
information on the subjects of high strangeness? Achieve that
proffered goal, sir, by reporting from both sides of the aisle!
Abandon the camp of the constipated ideologue presently
inhabited! You and your 'publication' lack balance, Mr. Rimmer.
Moreover, your audience is getting wise to you.

>>you'd be able to do the same thing with
>>(or write a positive piece about):

>>1. Kirtland AFB (11\4\57)
>>2. Hynek Blue Book Case (5\5\65)
>>3. Malmstrom AFB (3/20/67)
>>4. Incident at Redlands, Ca. (Hynek, BB, 2\4\68)
>>5. Exeter, New Hampshire (9\3\65)
>>6. Malmstrom AFB (11\7\75)
>>7. Iran F-4 Incident (9\76)
>>8. Belgium (1989\90)
>>9. Illinois, USA (1\5\2000)

>Is this meant to be a list of 9 best cases? I've often had
>difficulty in getting UFO proponents to nominate such cases.
>They may be worth a look.

This is crap, unadulterated and unadorned. Go have your 'look',
Mr. Rimmer... I'll be less than surprised when you find a
meaningless tag of 'curiousness' to each case and attach
pugnacious little jaws to it like it was the holy grail of its
righteous discreditation. It's what you do, after all.

>>... and make your convincing case in an equal number of
>>citations and appendices! We don't see a lot (any?) of _that_,
>>sir. Moreover, the last time your fellow pelicanists tried to
>>make a cogent anti-point with (refute) a strong case was
>>Trindade, and that pointless little exercise only cost you more
>>of your dwindling credibility.

>As I recall it (and the correspondence is archived on UpDates -
>the pro- Trindade brigade made a tactical retreat when the
>going got tough, and we've heard precious little from them since

Curious! I would have described it as an exasperated rout as
Jerry Clark and a few like-minders bitch-slapped pedantic
pelicanists the length and breadth of the UpDates forum! How
could it be seen any other way? I'll go have another look at it.

>>Lately, with regard to the latest
>>Mexico flap, you and yours are quick to trot out planet
>>sightings, swamp gas, ground-fires, and radar echoes (...Andy
>>Roberts flying lighthouses...?) ... further weakening your grip
>>on an anti-ufological haft. ...Feel it slipping?

>The only thing that appears to be slipping around here is your
>ability to read UpDates. Me and mine have made no comment
>whatsoever on the Mexican case, as we are waiting to read the
>official Mexican military report.

Of course you are! Ever the high minded paragon of intellectual
rationality you proclaim airily from the perch of the scientific
researcher. You ape the balanced... but it's only an act, sir.
It remains that "you and yours" are, of course, the ardent
pelicanists alluded to who have (as has been pointed out
recently by Dr. Rudiak... another bitch-slapper!) proffered up
the portentous pelicanist's proposal of everything from swamp
gas to Andy Roberts' flying lighthouses (!)... as an explanation
for this unprecedented Mexican sighting! We, breathlessly, await
_your_ anal analysis. Be that as it may, sir, lay with the dogs
and come up with their fleas.

>If one or two "bungee-
>sceptics" (who dive into ufology from the outside, come up with
>some top-of-head 'explanation' then bounce back out again) have
>decided to make fools of themselves, that's nothing to do with
>me (or 'mine' whoever they may be!).

Lovely metaphor, but I think it's you and yours (ideologue
debunkers, noisome negative nay-sayers, and shallowly reflexive
skepti-bunkies, et al) diving from your cloistered towers on
well financed cords of your own... grasping furtively at the
empty air for rational straws (supporting your homocentric
cosmological views) increasingly rare and unfound by grasping
sweaty fingers... and soon, nothing left to haul you up after a
jump?

>>The only
>>'courage' you're showing is the ongoing temerity to be dogmatic
>>when you're wrong.

>>>Yours in bafflement...

>>Few on this List buy that, I think, but if it floats your
>>boat... just don't try wearing the cloak of the cited evenhanded
>>in my presence, sir. I'll be throwing a flag on it. Your bias
>>is plain, your cant unmistakable, and your prejudice is laid
>>bare.

>Translation, please.

As I have time? I'm going so far up your ufological nose at
every available opportunity you're going to feel my boot heels
on your top lip. Don't pretend bafflement. You know exactly
what's going on. You know exactly what you're doing. You know
exactly what I mean.

>>...but do try to hang on, sir. It's fun to watch, it's fuel on
>>your opposition's fire, and, finally, it's a demonstration that
>>the best you've got... is not very good.

>>I trust that this was, a little, clearer?

>Indubitably

Ahhh! Understanding at last!

alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net
...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                         Impacts And Human Evolution

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:45:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:25:43 -0400
Subject: Impacts And Human Evolution


Source: Space.Com

http://space.com/searchforlife/human_evolution_010424-1.html

Reinventing Darwin Again: How Asteroids Impacted Human Evolution
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer
posted: 07:00 am ET
24 April 2001

In the 5 million years or so that it took for apes to become
human, many human-like branches of the evolutionary tree were
lopped off. Scientists have long wondered why these other
hominid species, estimated to number a dozen or more, didn't
make it.

Were those who came to travel to the Moon and ponder their very
origin the logical and inevitable victors in the most important
of all Darwinian struggles?

Or did we just get lucky?

A newly presented mathematical argument suggests that the birth
of Homo sapiens was guided by catastrophic asteroid or comet
impacts, which created climate conditions that competing
species, frankly, couldn't handle.

It also holds that our human ancestors avoided early elimination
by the statistical skin of their rotting teeth.

"The reason that Homo sapiens have survived in spite of these
global disasters has little to do with the traditional
explanations given by neo-Darwinists," said Benny Peiser, a
social anthropologist at Liverpool John Moores University. "It
is sobering to realize that we are alive due to cosmic luck
rather than our genetic makeup."

Peiser bases his argument on the fact that populations of
hominids and early modern humans were extremely small. "Had any
of these impacts occurred in the proximity of these population
groups, we might also have gone the way of the dodo," he said.

The study's assumptions and calculations have met with strong
caution and even sharp criticism among scientists who specialize
in evolution, as well as asteroid experts.

Adaptive advantage

David Balding, a professor of applied statistics at University
of Reading in the U.K., said the idea that human survival is due
to "cosmic luck" does not compute:

"Perhaps we were lucky in avoiding a massive impact, but perhaps
it was our adaptive advantage that helped us survive modest
regional impacts whereas our hominid cousins did not," said
Balding, whose own research focuses on human evolution.

But some called the new scenario plausible. It has not been
published in a peer-reviewed journal but it is based on impact
estimates that are generally accepted by the asteroid research
community, though there are disagreements over the precise
number of times a large asteroid or comet has struck our planet.

Peiser laid the idea out earlier this month at a conference,
"Celebrating Britain's Achievements in Space." He worked with
Michael Paine, a volunteer for the Planetary Society in
Australia who ran impact scenarios through a computer program.
(Paine has written freelance stories for SPACE.com in the past.)

The researchers concluded that there would have been 20
"globally devastating" impacts during the past 5 million years,
with effects strong enough to have had "a catastrophic and
detrimental effect" on human evolution. Five million years ago
is roughly the time when hominids diverged from other apes,
though some recent controversial evidence puts the split as far
back as 6 million years ago.

[Continued at site.....]


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

               Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Bilodeau

From: Michael Bilodeau <micbilodeau.nul-bec.com>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 22:37:05 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:28:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Bilodeau


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:39:56 -0300
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:42 +0000
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:45:29 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>><snip>

>>>Time to summarize. Sharpen your pencils. This is a multiple-
>>>choice exam. The correct prosaic explanation offered by the
>>>debunkers for the recent Mexican UFO sighting is:

>>>A. A flotilla of U.S. supersecret stealth aircraft rendered
>>>invisible by isoluminant technology, flying far from home in the
>>>Gulf/Yucatan on some hard-to-fathom mission, and playing games
>>>with the Mexican Air Force for God-knows-what reason.

>>>B. Never-heard-of-before ball lightning or "atmospheric sparks"
>>>created in non-stormy conditions, lasting tens of minutes,
>>>flying 200+ mph through clouds, invisible to the eye, and
>>>displaying intelligent behavior such as evasive maneuvers,
>>>flying in formation, pacing and encircling the aircraft.

>>>C. Meteors lasting tens of minutes, flying through clouds,
>>>invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior, etc., etc.

>>>D. Re-entering space debris lasting tens of minutes, flying
>>>through clouds, invisible to the eye, intelligent behavior,
>>>etc., etc.

>>>E. A flotilla of hot air garbage bags, flying in a low-altitude,
>>>200+ mph jetstream, passing through clouds unaffected by the
>>>same jetstream, made of garbage bag material and using flames
>>>also unaffected by 200+ mph winds, whose meager wire frames
>>>create solid radar blips at 20+ miles, invisible to the eye,
>>>displaying intelligent behavior, etc., etc.

>>>F. Invisible, flying oil wells, etc., etc., etc.

>>>G. A, C, and E, or B, D, and F, but only if on weekends and
>>>during leap years.

>>>H. All of the above.

>>>I think that about covers it. Have I missed anything?

>>David,
>
>>That about covers it. Unless you want to include the ultimate
>>fallback position that, since it was released to Jamie Maussan
>>rather than to scientists whose minds are made up in advance,
>>it must be false.

<snip>

>>At an absolute minimum, we have a very interesting, well-
>>documented event that any scientist worth his/her salt should be
>>intensely curious about and willing to investigate objectively,
>>not reflexively debunk it.

>I am in full agreement with Dick, but would like to add one more
>stupid explanation to David's list, namely that it was all a
>Mexican government hoax to draw media attention away from an
>ongoing big corruption scandal down there!. Which idea was
>actually put forth.

Where does the knee-jerk-let's-be-careful-not-to-be-too-
enthusiastic reaction from ufologists fit in?

This scientific reflex comes from ufologists themselves, not
from the debunkers. The later seem compelled to find
explanations whith no scientific basis.

Still, some of those explanations come from scientists. In every
other context, they would loose their reputation for providing
such outlandish theories. Since they are only shooting at UFOs,
everything is OK then.

Which makes me think: I am not so sure this whole Mexican affair
will cause a ripple in the media. Nothing has been published in
USA today, the Times or the Newsweek. Nothing on MSNNBC.

I also think that we have short memory: the Mexican video may be
big stuff but have we forgotten about the Hudson Triangles?
_Thousands_ of people (scientist, pilots, politicians,
policemen, doctors, etc.) saw them. They were all over the
place. Things the size of a football field. They may be the
definite proof of the reality of UFOs.

What became of this case?

I am not too enthusiastic because this may be a no-win
situation: we still get ignored if it's guenuine and we make
front page if it gets solved.

I am not pessimistic. I am just used to the blows.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
=3D Faites par les Qu=E9becois pour les Qu=E9becois       =3D
=3D     et amies.                                     =3D
=3D Enregistrez votre compte gratuit =E0 Q-Bec.com      =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
=3D Made in Quebec for Quebecers and friends          =3D
=3D Get your free account at Q-Bec.com                =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
=3D   Cette endroit =E0 louer / This space for rent     =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                  Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 03:27:13 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:32:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Boone


>http://www.elcajon.cl/ovniaventura/parquef.htm

Um, the one thing that's scary about this new 'alien' photo is
that, often, when one appears, I show it to some of the world's
top graphics artists I know. It usually takes them all of a few
hours to tear a pic apart and show if it's a fake or not.

Guess what happened this time?

Nope.

Still in the 'huh?' basket.

So my final battery was to kick it upstairs to the best in
Hollywood special effects. I'll let you know what they come up
with. If they haven't solved it by Tuesday at the latest I'ld
have to give a thumbs up to the photog.


Best,

Greg







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

               Mexican University Bulletin On Campeche Lights

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 08:22:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:39:10 -0400
Subject: Mexican University Bulletin On Campeche Lights



Source: Fundacion Cosmos, A.C. (Mexico)

http://www.dgi.unam.mx/boletin/bdboletin/2004_355.html

Date: May 30, 2004

University Bulletin Mentions Campeche Lights

[National Autonomous University of Mexico]

16:30 hrs. Mayo 13 de 2004
Bolet=EDn UNAM-DGCS-355
Ciudad Universitaria
Photos appear at the end of the Bulletin

"Phenomena Recorded from SEDENA Aircraft are Ball Lightning or
Electrical Discharges"

UNAM researchers dismissed the possibility that the are
objects or vehicles containing extraterrestrials.

They requested copies of the video from the Secretariat of
National Defense along with technical data on the sighting in
order to carry out deeper studies and come up with a definite
scientific answer.

Scientists at UNAM (National Autonomous University of Mexico)
reported that the phenomena recorded on video from an aircraft
belonging to the Secretariat of Defense (SEDENA) are ball
lightning or electrical discharges, which could have appeared in
the upper layers of the atmosphere for the first time. They made
it clear that they are not objects or vehicles containing
extraterrestrials.

The asked the Federal agency to provide them with a copy of the
recording and technical data employed which allowed the
observation of these lights in order to pursue deeper studies
and come up with a definite scientific answer. They stated that
this research institution and public universities have
sufficient experts capable of performing such research.

In this press conference regarding "El video de los ovnis" (The
UFO video), the director and researcher of the Astronomical
Institute, Jose de Jesus Franco Lopez and Armando Arellano
Ferro, respectively, as well as academicians Rafael Navarro
Gonzalez and Julio Herrera Velazquez of the Instituto de
Ciencias Nucleares (ICN) pointed out that this new tool could
enable Mexico to take a step forward in the sciences and take
the lead in the study of uncommon and unusual phenomena.

The experts denied that there is any evidence regarding the
possibility that intelligent life has visited Earth in the past,
although they did not dismiss the presence of life somewhere in
the Universe.

Franco Lopez explained that the definition of UFO is
"unidentified flying object", which occupies several categories.
However, to go from there to saying that they are occupied by
extraterrestrials "represents a gigantic leap, and the answer
then becomes no."

To compare a living being with a human being isn't the same, he
argued. A flying object has nothing to do with an
extraterrestrial point of origin.

He acknowledged SEDENA's serious work, which relies upon a
series of adequate instruments and experts with whom scholars
would wish to exchange points of view.

The director of the IA stated that it is not possible to present
any conclusions, since the characteristics of the infrared
camera are unknown, as well as the distance to the lights, their
speed, size and temperature, among other details.

In turn, Rafael Navarro Gonzalez showed a micro-scale example of
the ball lightining, similar to what was seen by the Mexican Air
Force pilots. He stated that the plasma phenomenon could explain
the presence of objects found in the clouds over Campeche. He
explained that after having seen the images for the first time
over television, his direct interpretation was that [they were]
meteorites or space junk falling into the atmosphere.

A day later, his conclusion regarding the video is that the
phenomenon was seen in the clouds; the pilots could not see the
spheres, but they were picked up on radar, which only detected
the two first ones propagated in the atmosphere. However, an
infrared camera was able to detect others originating in the
rear section.

He found the pilot's testimony interesting in the sense that
after exploring said presence for several minutes, the pilots
retreated when the spheres began to approach.

Ball lightning, he argued, is an atmospheric electrification
phenomenon that is seldom seen and has not been adequately
studied. The phenomenon [consists of] ionized gas, luminous
spheres, whose temperatures are not sufficiently high to emit
them [sic] and thus make them visible. This type of event
includes aurora borealis, so tenuous that it can only be seen in
winter and at night.

For this reason, the military men weren't able to see them in
plain sight, but were able to detect them through radar and
infrared.

He added that ball lightning propagates horizontally, as shown
in the SEDENA video. It occupies the same plane as the clouds
and move together with the aircraft, since ball lightning is an
unbalanced gas.

Its chemial and physical principles are unknown, but it can be
concluded that they were seen with some difficulty due to being
very tenuous. However, it is likely that they could not be
picked up by radar in front section of the discharge's
propagation.Given that the gas is hot and the ions are at a high
temperature, he explained, it emits infrared, making it
observable through a camera. Since all electrical discharges
tend to be neutralized by metal  - material with which the
aircraft was built  -  it tried to approach the aircraft.

In his own presentation, Julio Herrera Velazquez of the ICN
explained that ball lightning is a manifestation of the state of
matter known as plasma, which is related to fire.

Abounding on this, he went on to say that 99% of the observable
matter in the universe is in this state, and is capable of
emitting electromagnetic waves. The radar wavelengths as well as
those of the aircraft, he added, are what is needed to reflect
densities such as that of a bolt of lightning. However - he
added - it is according to the plama's density that it may be
observed, because it may be very tenous, to the extent that a
radar wave can penetrate it without reflecting it. In this case,
the ball lightning's characteristics allowed its detection
through the infrared camera. It is, he stressed, a highly
interesting meteorological phenomenon that is seldom seen. In
science, he noted, the goal is to rationalize things in the
search for the simplest and likeliest result.

Meanwhile, Armando Arellano Ferro of the IA made it clear that
scientist do not deny and will never deny the possibility that
biological life of another sort may have developed elsewhere in
the universe.

For this reason, he expressed the possibility that there is life
elsewhere in the Universe, but [scientists] do not know where,
despite the fact that the scientific community has sent signals
and made efforts for finding extraterrestrial evidence over the
decades. He invited society at large to search for scientific
reasons, in order that sightings of this type may not lead to
the conclusion that their origin is extraterrestrial, but rather
based on logical and well-grounded explanations.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Fundacion Cosmos AC and Leopoldo Zambrano








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                 Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:07:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:56:40 -0400
Subject: Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio


Hello All,

Following is a copy of the English translation of the audio
portion of video recording made from the Forward Looking
Infra-Red camera during the encounter between the Mexican
military C26A and several UFOs. It _should_ have been published
to this List by Santiago Yturria, a couple of days ago.

Instead, curiously, he chose to post it, 'exclusively', to the
Jeff Rense website - where it has been for two days - and
completely ignored UFO UpDates. I don't pretend to know what the
back story is on this one. All I know is; this translation is
getting posted to this List, come hell or high water.

Briefly

I had started the translation on the entire FLIR recording when
Bruce asked me to stop and to concentrate on deciphering the
bits where data is being exchanged by the crew. ie; speed,
distance, heading etc. It was at this point I decided that the
smart thing to do would be to ask Jaime Maussan for some help.

Jaime wrote back to me almost immediately informing me that
Santiago Yturria had taken on the assignment of handling the
overall translation of the audio freeing me up to skip ahead
and look for portions of the recording where hard data was
being exchanged.

Several days later I received a copy of Santiago's translation.
Because English is not his primary language, the version he sent
me was very rough around the edges. I worked it over, making
corrections and smoothing it out so that it would make more
sense to someone whose native language is English. I then
returned the re-worked version to Santiago for final approval.
That's the last I heard from him until I discovered that he had
posted the version I had reworked to the Jeff Rense website. He
never submitted it for publication on the UpDates List, and I
don't see any mention of my contribution to the translation
process at Rense. Again, I don't presume to know what is up with
all of this odd behavior. Maybe there is some 'infighting' going
on that I am unaware of. No matter.

So, without further ado, I give you a translation of the audio
portion of the FLIR recording that was made during the close
encounter.

----------------------------------------------------------------

English Translation Of Audio From The Flir Video Recording
Aboard A Mexican Air Force Merlin C26A During A UFO Incident

Date: March 5, 2004
Location: Over Ciudad Del Carmen, Campeche air space

Translation by Santiago Yturria with assistance on final draft
from John Velez.


Note: Voice identification, below, does not correspond to the
same crew members in every segment. Voices are labelled in
order of appearance in each segment.

-----

PART 1:
         [The C26A is patroling known drug smuggling flight
          paths.]

FLIR VIDEO TIME: (Hour/Min/Sec) 12:55:09 to 12:55:29

         [Crew Conversation]

VOICE A: Do you have the lagoon in sight?
VOICE B: Yes it is to the right.

VOICE A: We get to the lagoon and we'll do that.
VOICE B: To the right?
VOICE A: Yes.

VOICE B: And we go back to the point, or do we move away?
VOICE A: We move away, that is, we make a pattern more or less
         like an arc.

VOICE B: Okay.


FLIR VIDEO TIME: 13:16:22 to 13:16:33

         [no dialogue]

FLIR VIDEO TIME: 16:42:44 to 16:43:30

VOICE A: Almost to 12 of our position, distance, 2.9, speed, 75.
VOICE B: Pan more to the left because of the sun.
VOICE C: Yes.

VOICE B: Pan to the left
VOICE A: Okay I see it.

VOICE A: The runway is here at one
VOICE C: Where are you?
VOICE A: Ehhh, at 12 of our position, 2.3.
VOICE B: A runway


PART 2:
         [Unknown traffic appeares. The crew begins to take
          action. They report a target to the base suspected to
          be a clandestine airplane.]


FLIR VIDEO TIME: 16:45:33 to 16:45:55

VOICE A: I'll tell you right away
VOICE B: A position?
VOICE C: A position.. 7- 4
VOICE A: At 12 of our position, I still have it there
VOICE D: A traffic
VOICE E: Can you get me the headquarters officer, Captain Danzon
         to let him know that we are reading a target.
VOICE A: Point Carmen 18- 4
VOICE B: It's marking 2-106 of speed and has a heading of 301


FLIR VIDEO TIME: 16:52:03 to 16:53:00

VOICE A: It's behind the clouds.

VOICE A: What could it have been?
VOICE B: Don't know. It went on the other side - exactly where I
         had it.

         [The FLIR operator trying to track the object through
          the clouds.]

VOICE A: Come, come.
VOICE B: Go.

VOICE A: Right, right.
VOICE B: Here it goes! Here it goes!!

VOICE B: There it goes... there it goes!


PART 3:

        [The object is clearly visible on the FLIR. The crew
         begins to wonder out loud about the unknown light.]

FLIR VIDEO TIME: 16:50:03 to 16:50:22

VOICE A: What is it Juarez? Juarez what is it?
VOICE B: It's a point.
VOICE C: A point. It's there.
VOICE D: It's there behind us.
VOICE C: Its correct, it's now at our 7 o'clock position at
         10.5 miles distance.

VOICE C: It's course is, 2- 8- 3 with a speed of 3-3-4.

VOICE D: More.


FLIR VIDEO TIME: 16:55:16 to 16:57:32

VOICE A: At least we have contact with it on the FLIR and we've
         had Radar contact all the time.
VOICE B: What's its altitude - more or less, boss?
VOICE A: I think it's at the same altitude as us.
VOICE B: Aahh.

VOICE C: The FLIR angle is... straight.

VOICE C: Exactly.
VOICE A: It's above us
VOICE C: That's right.
VOICE B: Ah, that's why you couldn't see it.

VOICE D: I'm almost losing it on the Radar, it's almost off the
         screen.
VOICE B: Aahh.
VOICE A:  .
VOICE C: It's exactly one mile from Carmen. From Carmen.

VOICE B: How many miles?
VOICE C: One or two miles from Carmen.
VOICE D: I don't have it on the screen but the Radar is still
         marking the distance at 37 miles.
VOICE C: It's now over Carmen.

VOICE B: Well, then it's been lost.
VOICE D: Here it comes.
VOICE C: It's passing by Carmen.

VOICE D: It is still going.

VOICE D: What's it doing?
VOICE C: It's turning.
VOICE D: Is it turning right?
VOICE C: Yes.


FLIR VIDEO TIME: 16:59:05 to 16:59:46

VOICE A: Just a light. It couldn't be distinguished
VOICE B: It couldn't be determined if it was a plane or
         something else.

VOICE C: It is the same one that we saw awhile ago.
VOICE D: Yes.

VOICE E: Paying attention, eh?


PART 4:

FLIR VIDEO TIME: 17:03:36 to 17:07:40

         [Two objects appear]

VOICE A: Let me check.
VOICE B: At 7 at the same altitude.
VOICE C: There are some clouds, it must be seen over there.

VOICE D: [almost stuttering] That but, let's see, look for that,
         that is behind us.
VOICE E: Look how it appears. It looks like it's in two parts.
VOICE C: It is at our 7 or 8 o'clock position.

VOICE C: The strange thing is, that it has a point travelling in
         front position. A little point, in front of it.

VOICE C: It's not there? There goes another one.

         [More objects, in formation, appear in the FLIR. The
          operator detects them and is moving the FLIR camera
          backward to count them.]

VOICE F: Lets' see, what do we have here?
VOICE A: Nothing sir. Hold on, let me look.
VOICE C: Commander what's that?
VOICE F: At what distance did you have them Tellez?
VOICE C: Ehh?
VOICE A: Hey, beware, this is like...
VOICE C: There are more coming. There are more... they are
         behind. There are ten, eleven objects.

VOICE A: There are many objects.
VOICE F: Ehh?
VOICE C: They must be at 9 o'clock from our position now.
VOICE F: At 9. Hold on.
VOICE A: At 9, same altitude almost, almost.
VOICE F: Okay, hold on.
VOICE C: Affirmative. They're going.

VOICE C: They're going.

VOICE C: Go one..
VOICE A: One
VOICE C: And they are going with the others at the back, the
         ones that follow.
VOICE F: My God, what's that.
VOICE B: They are running each other (smiling)

VOICE F: What's that? Let's see. Try to focus.

VOICE C: It's at maximum.
VOICE F: Okay, don't let them leave you behind.

VOICE F: Okay.
VOICE C: Go.
VOICE F: Follow that one Tellez, don't leave it.
VOICE C: There they go, all of them, there are approximately
         ten, did you see them? Have you seen them?
VOICE F: You follow them.

VOICE C: There they go.
VOICE A: There they go.

VOICE A: Three, four, five. six... Are there six?

VOICE F: Below or above? Above? Where.
VOICE C: In the middle, there they go, at the same altitude.
VOICE A: There they go look, one, two, three, four, five,e six,
         seven... no, there are eight.

VOICE F: This is terrible...
VOICE C. They are going to be seen better - there.

VOICE C: And they're going at a speed that...

VOICE C: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, I have eight
         on the screen.
VOICE F: Follow them, don't lose them!

VOICE A: Are they at the same altitude, Tellez?
VOICE C: Affirmative. Above.

VOICE C: Eight, nine, ten, eleven, counting all the ones in the
         back.
VOICE C: Two, four, six, eight, ten, eleven.

VOICE F: [Apparently talking to the base]
         listen we don't know what are we seeing, they are
         luminous objects that are flying at the same altitude
         as us. We do not know what their distance is.

VOICE B: At what position do you have it, Tellez?
VOICE C: At 8.
VOICE F: At 8 or 9.
VOICE B: At 9. I don't think the Radar may read it, we have a
         blind angle there, Sir.
VOICE F: At 8 or 9?
VOICE B: Yes.
VOICE B. We have 20 degrees of blind angle there.
VOICE F: But you were seeing them?
VOICE B: Yes, but it's strange, now I have nothing.


FLIR VIDEO TIME: 17:14:58 to 17:16:14

         [One huge object is seen on the FLIR screen.]

VOICE A: [Smiling] Why are they following us? Maintain that.
VOICE B: They are at 12 he said.
VOICE C: No. They are at 1.

VOICE A: Well that's one, but we have another at 9.
VOICE D: We have one at 9.
VOICE B: Ah I have one here, let me check the one at 9.
VOICE D: And ahead there are another two.
VOICE A: And they're the same ones, eh?
VOICE D: We have them ahead - in the middle and at 8
VOICE B: [Laughing] Ahh, fuck...
VOICE A: [Laughing] Fasten your seatbelts!
VOICE D: Let's see...
VOICE B: [Smiling] Don't be frightened.
VOICE D: If you could check through the window, we have one
         going along at approximately 1. The rest still going
         along at 9.
VOICE A. Does that means we are surrounded?
VOICE D: Well... I don't know.
VOICE B: At what distance.
VOICE D: The radar just indicates the point.
VOICE A: Boys, today is your lucky day!! [Laughs]
VOICE B: At what distance.
VOICE A. And that one is getting near to the other one.
VOICE D: It does not mark distance.
VOICE B: Okay, the one that we have at 1 from our position, I have
         it at 19 miles, at 1 o'clock from our position, going
         at 52 knots.
VOICE D: The one that you have at 1, I have one at 9 and the one
         that goes ahead of the one at 9. Approximately at 9,
         but going along ahead are two luminous points.
VOICE B: At what position, Tellez?
VOICE D: At 9 of our position.
VOICE B: At 9? Hold on, let me check...


FLIR VIDEO TIME: 17:16:32 to 17:18:23

          [An object is seen on the screen near the airplane's
           left propeller.]

VOICE A: It's going along at our altitude - couldn't be.
VOICE B: The one that you have, what's it's position?
VOICE C: Which one? The one below the cloud? That one?
VOICE A: Yes.
VOICE C: Okay.
VOICE A: Roger.
VOICE B: That one you have there, what's it's position?
VOICE A: I have it at 9.

VOICE D: Boys...
VOICE B: We are not alone. [Laughs]
VOICE D: Yes, we are not alone, right. It's true. How strange
         this is, they are surrounding us.

VOICE A: Hey the one that you have at 1?
VOICE B: At 1 I have it at 14.8 miles at 1 heading 99 at a speed
         of 52.
VOICE A: Ah, that's the... he is following one and I'm following
         the other one.
VOICE D: Okay
VOICE A: I mean the other one(s).

VOICE D: What is this?
VOICE E: Couldn't be a fucking plane - it's stopped there!
VOICE D: Ehh?
VOICE A: Do you have it in sight?
VOICE B: It looks so=8A lets get near.
VOICE E: It's stopped there!
VOICE B: It's stopped? Leaves the field?

VOICE D: No but the one that we have at 9...
VOICE E: It's in the clouds.
VOICE D: The one that we have at 9 is following us, is in
         formation with us, is in formation... at 9.

VOICE A: The one that you have at 1 where do you have it,
         Generation?
VOICE B: Hold on " Gene " I have it at... at 1.
VOICE A: There is one that is getting near to us.
VOICE B: At 1 of our position at 10 miles distance and speed of
         52.

FLIR VIDEO TIME: 17:26:30 to 17:27:02

         [The FLIR is focusing an object that presents a shape
          and a luminous form.]

         [The pilot is apparently reporting this object to the
          base.]

VOICE A: The Radar has them. The FLIR has them. We are seeing on
         the FLIR a luminous object, it has an opposite course
         to us but it doesn't leave us, it's two miles behind us.

VOICE A: It does not move apart from us, no, it doesn't move
         apart from us.

VOICE A: Correct, who knows what it is.

VOICE A: Is it still with us, Marin?

VOICE B: Yes I still have it here.


FLIR VIDEO TIME: 17:27:11 to 17:28:02

VOICE A: Now it lost a bit of quality, I have a quality of 5.

VOICE B: Again look it looks...

VOICE A: The one that we had at 1 is lost now.
VOICE B: Okay.
VOICE A: It just left the Radar.

VOICE B: How weird is all this.

---------- END -------------------------------------------------


Regards to all,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                Re: Really Hard Up Debunker Explanations For

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:13:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:22:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Really Hard Up Debunker Explanations For


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:29:49 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Really Hard Up Debunker Explanations For Mexican UFOs

>Let's raise the absurdity bar!

>Since the debunkers are running out of absurd text book
>explanations, let's raise the bar and have some fun.

>I take it the 'How To Debunk Any UFO Report' handbook hasn't
>been updated recently. It might be due to the over abundance of
>'X Ray Specs' and 'Build Your Own Sub' advertisements. Doesn't
>that booklet have a fold-in back cover as well?

>Here we go:

>They're not UFOs they're Keebler Cookie Elves with itty bitty
>graham cracker crust covered jets.

>Leprechauns. Everybody believes in leprechauns. Those devious
>wee folk are at it again.

>Pixies. When elves and leprechauns fail, you break out the big
>guns with the pixie explanation. If someone doubts it throw them
>a curve and tell them to ask their 5 year old daughter or
>granddaughter. That'll keep em' occupied til we whip something
>else up.

>Kids. It's kids. Everyone will appreciate a precocious pre-teen
>with a penchant for hacking radar and FLIR. We'll find some kid
>to take the fall. Say he did it from a school computer.

>Bugs. No one mentioned bugs! Ha! We've got them! We can say
>they're a rare collection of Mexican Lightning Bugs that fly in
>swarms in the upper atmosphere and on occasion have mistaken
>aircraft for possible mates. Icky but sufficient.

>Angels. Don't say demons or you'll scare the kids. No one is
>going to argue about angels because then someone will beat them
>up.

>Car lights. Yes, automobiles on the ground's headlights
>reflected from the clouds. Heck, the sighting was during the day
>so let's say that it was a funeral procession. That's why they
>had their headlights on.

>Fart Lighting. That's the answer. Tell them that gaseous
>emissions from people and livestock ignited due to the static
>electricity caused by the ions in the clouds. They'll laugh so
>hard they won't think of investigating again.

>Ghosts. It's gotta be ghosts when all else fails. That'll jam up
>the talk show lines with people who've seen ghosts so that no
>credible scientist can get a word in edgewise.

>Last but not least, when all else fails, when push comes to
>shove the old " Luminescent refraction ionizational
>enturbulating coalescent pulse emission frazzilstatsis " trick
>always works. The term is so stupid that it will take weeks
>before they figure it out.


Hi Greg, hi All,

<LMAO> I was wondering 'who' was going to don the first
lampshade and hula-skirt and perform the mocking, 'dance of
death' for the knee-jerk/armchair debunkers in the crowd?

Lo and behold, the braying, hula-skirted 'Mocker' has turned out
to be none other than our own (usually) very dignified, Greg
Boone!

Greg, what happened? You exploded! <VBG>

To be honest, there are a couple of especially annoying
debunkers that I would like to 'moon' while wearing a
hula-skirt, myself. I was just trying to be cool about it.

Thank the Major Greg is not as repressed as I am!

'It's a BLURFO, it's a bird... it's a bug... no, it's only Knee-
jerk Man!' :0


Regards,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

               Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:19:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:27:15 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Friedman


>From: Michael Bilodeau <micbilodeau.nul-bec.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 22:37:05 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:39:56 -0300
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:42 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

<snip>

>>>At an absolute minimum, we have a very interesting, well-
>>>documented event that any scientist worth his/her salt should be
>>>intensely curious about and willing to investigate objectively,
>>>not reflexively debunk it.
>
>>I am in full agreement with Dick, but would like to add one more
>>stupid explanation to David's list, namely that it was all a
>>Mexican government hoax to draw media attention away from an
>>ongoing big corruption scandal down there!. Which idea was
>>actually put forth.

>Where does the knee-jerk-let's-be-careful-not-to-be-too-
>enthusiastic reaction from ufologists fit in?

>This scientific reflex comes from ufologists themselves, not
>from the debunkers. The later seem compelled to find
>explanations whith no scientific basis.

>Still, some of those explanations come from scientists. In every
>other context, they would loose their reputation for providing
>such outlandish theories. Since they are only shooting at UFOs,
>everything is OK then.

>Which makes me think: I am not so sure this whole Mexican affair
>will cause a ripple in the media. Nothing has been published in
>USA today, the Times or the Newsweek. Nothing on MSNBC.

<snip>

I must note that MSNBC had a brief story about the Mexican
case one night, and the next had me on for the last 3 minutes as
their top story with Keith Olberman and without any hint of
ridicule.


Stan Friedman








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

             Re: Mexican University Bulletin On Campeche Lights

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:40:16 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:33:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican University Bulletin On Campeche Lights


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 08:22:25 -0400
>Subject: Mexican University Bulletin On Campeche Lights

>Source: Fundacion Cosmos, A.C. (Mexico)

>http://www.dgi.unam.mx/boletin/bdboletin/2004_355.html

>Date: May 30, 2004

>University Bulletin Mentions Campeche Lights

>[National Autonomous University of Mexico]

>16:30 hrs. Mayo 13 de 2004
>Bolet=EDn UNAM-DGCS-355
>Ciudad Universitaria
>Photos appear at the end of the Bulletin

>"Phenomena Recorded from SEDENA Aircraft are Ball Lightning or
>Electrical Discharges"

>UNAM researchers dismissed the possibility that the are
>objects or vehicles containing extraterrestrials.

<snip>

>Ball lightning, he argued, is an atmospheric electrification
>phenomenon that is seldom seen and has not been adequately
>studied. The phenomenon [consists of] ionized gas, luminous
>spheres, whose temperatures are not sufficiently high to emit
>them [sic] and thus make them visible. This type of event
>includes aurora borealis, so tenuous that it can only be seen in
>winter and at night.

>For this reason, the military men weren't able to see them in
>plain sight, but were able to detect them through radar and
>infrared.

>Franco Lopez explained that the definition of UFO is
>"unidentified flying object", which occupies several categories.
>However, to go from there to saying that they are occupied by
>extraterrestrials "represents a gigantic leap, and the answer
>then becomes no."

>To compare a living being with a human being isn't the same, he
>argued. A flying object has nothing to do with an
>extraterrestrial point of origin.

<snip>

What a splendid example of the intellectual bankruptcy of the
pseudoscience of antiufology from "scientific" professionals
who obviously know little about Ball Lightning and even less
about UFOs. They seem to know there are no visitors to
planet earth since they haven't telephoned first for an an
appointment with these guys.

Thanks Scott for bringing this to our attention.

Stan Friedman









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                  Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:11:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 14:57:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Shell


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 03:27:13 EDT
>Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

>So my final battery was to kick it upstairs to the best in
>Hollywood special effects. I'll let you know what they come up
>with. If they haven't solved it by Tuesday at the latest I'ld
>have to give a thumbs up to the photog.

Oh, I think that the photo is probably kosher. I just think that
the particular arrangement of pixels on it that our predisposed
brains see as an "alien" might be something else. Like a little
dog or something jumping at a leaf or bug. But I'm not in the
debunking business, so until then, it goes into my "huh?" file,
as well.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                          Things To Look Forward To

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:36:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 14:59:26 -0400
Subject: Things To Look Forward To


In the realm of items of interest to those following the mystery
of Mothman and Thunderbirds, here's some hints of forthcoming
things of interest to us all:

The Discovery Channel's series Mystery Hunters, will have
programs next fall on "Mothman" and "Thunderbirds." The on-
location filming took place in Illinois, Pennsylvania, and West
Virginia.

Paraview Press, before the year's end, will release the much-
anticipated book by Mark A. Hall, entitled Thunderbirds. It will
have chapters on North American large bird reports, from
Thunderbirds to Mothman. Filled with new thoughts,
illustrations, and maps, it will be the only formally published
book dealing exclusively with and broadly looking at these avian
cryptids.

The expectation is that these broadcasting and publishing events
will bring new attention to Thunderbirds and Mothman.

Looking forward to them all, best,


Loren







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

                           Talk Sport UFO Show UK

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:27:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:02:06 -0400
Subject: Talk Sport UFO Show UK


I'll be appearing on James Whale's show on the Talk Sport radio
station on Tuesday night, between around 11pm and 1am. [GMT +1]

I'll be discussing the contribution to ufology made by Lord
Hill-Norton, who died on May 16. I'll be talking about the new
UFO documentary shown on Channel Five last week, Grolsch's alien
abduction advertisement, and the University of London study into
the alien abduction phenomenon. I'll also be looking ahead to
next month's UFO debate at the Cheltenham Festival of Science.

As ever, callers are welcome to phone in with comments,
questions, or details of any UFO sightings they've had.

Talk Sport broadcasts at 1089/1053am. You can listen online at
the following url:

http://www.talksport.net/listen


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 30

              Re: Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio -

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:59:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:40:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio -


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:07:08 -0400
>Subject: Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio

>Following is a copy of the English translation of the audio
>portion of video recording made from the Forward Looking
>Infra-Red camera during the encounter between the Mexican
>military C26A and several UFOs. It _should_ have been published
>to this List by Santiago Yturria, a couple of days ago.

>Instead, curiously, he chose to post it, 'exclusively', to the
>Jeff Rense website - where it has been for two days - and
>completely ignored UFO UpDates. I don't pretend to know what the
>back story is on this one. All I know is; this translation is
>getting posted to this List, come hell or high water.


Hello John and all,

You are right John and I'm terrible sorry for the
misunderstanding. But I received your reply once I sent you the
English translation and I sent you my reply inmediately thanking
you for your words and for being so kind in fixing the erroneous
expressions I may have written in the extensive translation.

I also asked we continue working togtheron this investigation
along with the many friendly researchers and agreed with every
word you wrote me.

I presumed you would post the English translation at once, as
you had offered, and meanwhile I sent the report to many
researchers in the US and other countries like Brazil, Turkey,
UK, Japan, France, Italy, etc., and  to several websites
including Rense.com where I have been publishing my reports for
several years. But this was not an exclusive in any form for
anybody and can't be.

Jaime Maussan asked me to distribute the English translation to
the researchers that are working along with us in this
investigation and also to anybody we know, websites etc.

This is an open investigation for all the people. We have been
doing a lot of correspondence these days and if there was a
single mistake please forgive the inconvenience.

You mentioned the English translation published at Rense.com,
but I have not seen it. I just reviewed the website and looked
everywhere but I have not seen the article published. Where did
you see it? It's not even in the Mexico data directory. Besides
you said that I sent the report as an exclusive but it isn't. I
never wrote the word exclusive because there is no exclusive on
this one. I have always posted to UFO Updates and have been
following the posts regarding this case.

Jaime Maussan and I have been discussing every message posted to
this List regarding the Mexico UFO case and we are honored to be
members of this select group. There are no exclusives or
selected parties on this important case. Our descison was to
spread this Mexican UFO disclosure to the world. We may make
mistakes, we are not perfect but assert our seriousness and
honesty in our work and our compromise to all of our collagues.

Once again John please accept my sincere apologies for any
misunderstanding that may have resulted in our colaboration and
correspondence. You have been a true fine gentleman giving us
all your support and valuable help. We have only words of
gratitude for you. I hope that we can continue counting on
your friendship, as always.


Truly yours,

Santiago







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 31

                Scientists Challenge Mexico's Meteorological

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 16:27:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 16:17:28 -0400
Subject: Scientists Challenge Mexico's Meteorological


UNAM Scientists Challenge Mexico's National Meteorological Services

A minor scientist group from the UNAM made history some weeks
ago at an improvised press conference on May 13 announcing their
explanation to the mexican Air Force UFO incident over Campeche
on March 5, 2004.

The four UNAM teachers Jose de Jesus Franco Lopez, Armando
Arellano Ferro, Rafael Navarro and Julio Herrera presented their
isolated hypotesis saying that the phenomena detected by the
Merlin C26A FLIR and Radar were just flash of lightning, nothing
unusual.

The teachers avoided to comment why the alleged flashes were
invisible for the crew all the time and why the supposed flashes
performed such maneouvers during the 11 minute incident.

But the most serious posture of the four teachers was their
direct confrontation against the National Meteorological
Services, Mexico's official and most authorized authority on any
meteorological and weather conditions in the country. The UNAM
teachers rejected to request the meteorological report on the
Campeche conditions on March 5, 2004 even that they were
proposing a meteorological phenomena as an explanation for the
incident.

The UNAM teachers refused to talk to anybody on the National
Meteorological Services for some reason. The NMS issued a
statement on May 18,2004 by their sub-manager Alberto Hernandez
Unzon giving their inform on the Campeche meteorological
conditions for March 5, 2004, same that was broadcast on TV and
distributed on the Internet. In this statement the NMS confirmed
that there were not meteorological conditions for any spark
lightning, ball lightning, St. Elmo's fires etc. in that zone.

Despite the public statement of Mexico's leading authority
meteorological center the four UNAM teachers sustained their
version of the spark lightning

defying the NMS criterion and knowledge in an historic
confrontation that will settle a serious precedent for the UNAM.

Certainly these four teachers does'nt represent the whole
scientists of the UNAM and most definitely not the opinion of
the mexican scientific community wich till this moment has been
acting with prudence following the events not adopting any
posture.

We are wondering why these four teachers are still refusing to
talk to the National Meteorological Services people even that
the invitation for anybody has been made on tv. Their attitude
is disconcerting and dissapointing.


It's clear that the teachers have not done their homework.


Santiago





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 31

                      MUFON Canadian Symposium Website

From: Eugene H. Frison <eugene.frison.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:01:35 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 16:21:10 -0400
Subject: MUFON Canadian Symposium Website


Dear List:

A website now exists for the upcoming MUFON FIRST ANNUAL
CANADIAN UFO SYMPOSIUM.

The url is:

http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/chris.styles


Regards,

Eugene Frison
MUFON Canada








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 31

                 Re: Impacts And Human Evolution - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:28:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:32:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Impacts And Human Evolution - Stanford


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:45:22 -0700
>Subject: Impacts And Human Evolution


>Source: Space.Com

>http://space.com/searchforlife/human_evolution_010424-1.html

>Reinventing Darwin Again: How Asteroids Impacted Human Evolution
>By Robert Roy Britt
>Senior Science Writer
>posted: 07:00 am ET
>24 April 2001

>In the 5 million years or so that it took for apes to become
>human, many human-like branches of the evolutionary tree were
>lopped off. Scientists have long wondered why these other
>hominid species, estimated to number a dozen or more, didn't
>make it.

Being a senior science writer, you'd think Mr. Britt would know
that no researchers into human phylogeny, or legitimate
evolution researchers by any name, claim that the evolutionary
ancestors of humankind were apes! Talk about 'science writers'
authoring pseudoscience and contributing to "the dumbing of
America"! That kind of pseudoscientific thought is a
misconception or, in some cases, an outright and very deliberate
propagandistic lie perpetuated by fundamentalist Christians, to
induce the uninformed to dismiss evolution out of human pride.
It is disgusting to read a science writer making an ass - or
even an ape  :) - out of himself like that!

>Were those who came to travel to the Moon and ponder their very
>origin the logical and inevitable victors in the most important
>of all Darwinian struggles?

>Or did we just get lucky?

>A newly presented mathematical argument suggests that the birth
>of Homo sapiens was guided by catastrophic asteroid or comet
>impacts, which created climate conditions that competing
>species, frankly, couldn't handle.

>It also holds that our human ancestors avoided early elimination
>by the statistical skin of their rotting teeth.

>"The reason that Homo sapiens have survived in spite of these
>global disasters has little to do with the traditional
>explanations given by neo-Darwinists," said Benny Peiser, a
>social anthropologist at Liverpool John Moores University. "It
>is sobering to realize that we are alive due to cosmic luck
>rather than our genetic makeup."

That's the kind of idiotic black-or-white thinking one might
expect from a social anthropologist who wants to draw attention
to himself in the press for less than scientific reasons.

The truth more likely is that both genetic makeup AND cosmic
luck played parts in humankind's presence today. Attention-
seeking and career-promoting scientists always seem to paint one
side of a question black and their side white, but it usually is
the case that reality may be viewed with greatest fidelity in
various shades of gray.

The "mathematical argument" to which the author refers is merely
the estimated average time between world-class cosmic impacts,
and really (at this point of our knowledge of cosmic impacts)
has no demonstrable relevance to major events in the evolution
of humankind, per se. Of course, if the Cretaceous-Tertiary (K-
T) impact event had not finished off the non-avian dinosaurs,
mammals might not have had a big ecological niche to fill and
thus have diversified so rapidly or as much as they did, thus
effecting the timing - or even the appearance or non-appearance
- of humankind and its evolutionary ancestors. That much, and
only that much, we can reasonably say at this point.

Yet, new evidences of impacts of diverse ages (that may or may
not have relevance to Peiser's speculations) are being
discovered frequently these days, now that we have better
methods of identifying them. Early in the 20th century, most
scientists scoffed at claims that the 50,000 year-old impact
crater in Arizona is an impact structure, despite tons of
nickel-iron meteorites having been found in the area and shipped
off to El Past for smelting! Barringer, and, then, Nininger, had
about the kind of difficulty ufologists have now in convincing a
rather paranoid-trending 'mainstream science' of what should
have been obvious much earlier.

>Peiser bases his argument on the fact that populations of
>hominids and early modern humans were extremely small.

>"Had any of these impacts occurred in the proximity of these
>population groups, we might also have gone the way of the
>dodo," he said.

>The study's assumptions and calculations have met with strong
>caution and even sharp criticism among scientists who specialize
>in evolution, as well as asteroid experts.

And that is exactly as it should be. That realm is hardly the
legitimate province of a social anthropologist, and I think
Peiser is more than a little out of his realm of scientific
training and, probably, competence.

>Peiser laid the idea out earlier this month at a conference,
>"Celebrating Britain's Achievements in Space." He worked with
>Michael Paine, a volunteer for the Planetary Society in
>Australia who ran impact scenarios through a computer program.
>(Paine has written freelance stories for SPACE.com in the past.)

>The researchers concluded that there would have been 20
>"globally devastating" impacts during the past 5 million years,
>with effects strong enough to have had "a catastrophic and
>detrimental effect" on human evolution.

That 'conclusion' is pure speculation because as I said before,
it is based on nothing more than statistics resulting in very
rough averages based on the timing of dated impacts (over many
geologic periods) and not on demonstrable facts of specific,
relevantly-located impacts during the 5 million-year period
under discussion. Even if such impacts were a 'given',
scientifically demonstrating a causal relationship might be very
difficult.

>[Continued at site.....]

Of course, some of the problems could be in Robert Roy Britt's
reporting of Benny Peiser's premise, even as he misled readers
with that man-from-apes bit, but I seriously doubt that the
major problems reside merely in Britt's reporting.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." - Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 31

                         Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 14:54:40 +1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:35:58 -0400
Subject: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed


Hi List members,

Information obtained when questioned on relative airspeed of the
aircraft that videoed the Mexican UFOs.

This is how a pilot in charge of our local airport explained it
to me.....

1. If an aircraft is flying at 200mph in a 200mph tail wind, the
air speed of the aircraft registers as 200mph. But the air speed
relative to a ground based observer would be that the aircraft
is flying at 400mph.

2. If an aircraft is flying into a 200mph headwind, the aircraft
airspeed is still 200mph, but to the ground based observer, the
aircraft would appear to be stationery.

The Mexican air crew reporting their air speed was the actual
air speed of the aircraft, unrelated to the outside speed of the
wind.

This means that no matter how fast the air currents were
blowing, and in which direction, the air speed of the aircraft
would still be reported as 200mph. Only a ground observer would
notice any difference in the speed of the aircraft in the above
conditions.

If the objects were moving with a 200mph wind, and the aircraft
was flying at 200mph, than the objects may appear to be moving
faster than the aircraft to the pilots observing, depending on
the wind direction relative to the flight direction of the
aircraft.

Relativity comes into play when the crew "assuming" they are
flying at 200mph relative to the speed of the objects.

To a ground based observer, they may measure the real time speed
of the objects and aircraft totally different to what the air
speed of the crews aircraft registers their speed.

Therefore, the speed of the objects calculated by the air crew,
would be different to ground radar calculations of their speed.


Barry Taylor








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 31

              Re: Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:40:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:48:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio -


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:59:27 -0500
>Subject: Re: Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:07:08 -0400
>>Subject: Translation Of 03-05-04 Mexican FLIR Audio

>>Following is a copy of the English translation of the audio
>>portion of video recording made from the Forward Looking
>>Infra-Red camera during the encounter between the Mexican
>>military C26A and several UFOs. It _should_ have been published
>>to this List by Santiago Yturria, a couple of days ago.

>>Instead, curiously, he chose to post it, 'exclusively', to the
>>Jeff Rense website - where it has been for two days - and
>>completely ignored UFO UpDates. I don't pretend to know what the
>>back story is on this one. All I know is; this translation is
>>getting posted to this List, come hell or high water.

>Hello John and all,

>You are right John and I'm terrible sorry for the
>misunderstanding.

<snip>

>Once again John please accept my sincere apologies for any
>misunderstanding that may have resulted in our colaboration and
>correspondence. You have been a true fine gentleman giving us
>all your support and valuable help. We have only words of
>gratitude for you. I hope that we can continue counting on
>your friendship, as always.

Hola Santiago,

I am glad to know that all this was a misunderstanding. Jaime
already knows he can count on our friendship and on me at any
time. Right now however,  we all need to stay focused on the
remarkable evidence that was provided to the people of the world
by the head of the military in your country. This is an historic
event in more ways than one. Let's unite and give this our best
effort.

For List readers et al:

I noticed that I missed a few things when I fine tuned
Santiago's excellent translation. Please note the following:

Santiago used the word "smile" to describe when the crew
chuckled or laughed nervously. Of course one cannot see a
'smile' in an audio recording and Santiago was only doing his
best with a difficult task. English is not his primary language.
So please make note that wherever you see the word 'smile' in
the translation it should read; nervous laughter.

I don't want people to get the wrong impression and think that
the crew was 'laughing the whole incident off' or that they were
taking their situation lightly. Any one who has read the
transcript has read the portion where one of the officers on
board counsels his crew to "not be frightened." (This is at the
point where the aircraft is surrounded by the UFOs.)

If any of the (legitimate) researchers on this List have any
questions about _any_ part of the material contained in the
translation of the audio recording, please feel free to ask
Santiago Yturria or myself about it. We will both be happy to
assist any one who is trying to conduct an (serious academic)
analysis of this material. All we ask in return for our
cooperation is that a copy of the analysis be made available to
Jaime Maussan and his team. This way it can be formally
presented to the Mexican authorities -who provided the original
material in the first place.

This case grows stronger, not weaker, as the days pass and more
and more is learned about this incident. If it all holds
together as it has done thus far, the implications of this event
are nothing short of mind boggling.

A little speculation of my own:

Now that I have spent so much time with the FLIR recording of
the incident, I am convinced that the General is a lot smarter
and wiser maybe than any one has given him credit for so far.
People have tried nine ways from Sunday to mind-read him and
interpret his motives for turning this astounding material over
to Jame Maussan.

The more I study this material the more I grow convinced that
the General sees a very real and serious threat to national
security (this blatant violation of Mexican airspace) and last
but not least, a threat to the safety and well being of the
troops whose lives are entrusted to his care. (the UFOs
surrounded the airplane.)

Think. What would _you_ do if you were in his position and you
needed to take some action but found that your hands were tied?
Remember, the 'act' of those UFOs surrounding an airplane that
is conducting sensitive national security work represents
potential threats which only begin with -basic air safety
issues.

If his hands are tied because of restrictions or outside
pressure, this act on his part begins to look more and more like
an 'end-run' around whatever obstacle is keeping him from
performing his duty -as he sees it.  This man is a
military/national hero in Mexico. I would sooner assign a
benevolent and noble motivation to a man such as this than the
darker, more sinister conspiracies that others have put forward.

We all need to be real careful in our thinking about all of
this. That something is going on 'above our heads' is beyond all
question. That much is clear. 'What' it is, is anybody's guess
at this point.


Regards,

John Velez









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 31

                       The Lost Haven UFO Page Update

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 16:21:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:35:40 -0400
Subject: The Lost Haven UFO Page Update


From: Roy Hale < roy.nul >
Subject: UFO page Update

Hi All,

I have added a new UFO page to my site:

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/UFOSpecial.htm


Roy







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 31

                Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 08:36:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:37:49 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? - Warren


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:14:17 +1000
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:45:29 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>Time to summarize. Sharpen your pencils. This is a multiple-
>>choice exam. The correct prosaic explanation offered by the
>>debunkers for the recent Mexican UFO sighting is:

><snip>

>>I think that about covers it. Have I missed anything?

Barry, David, Et Al,

>David,

>Like yourself, everyone is entitled to an opinion on this case.
>Right or wrong opinions may be settled in the end if undeniable
>proof of the nature of the objects is identified.

>These objects are one of two things...

>1. Genuine UFOs
>2. Man made devices.

Until the objects can be "identified" they remain "UFOs!"
Moreover, the objects are one of "three things":

1. Man made objects
2. ET made objects
3. Unknown phenomena

>We can obviously rule out the meteor, ball lightning, super
>secret stealth aircraft, re-entering space debris and oil well
>flames. These just do not add up.

>I see no display of intelligent behaviour of the objects in the
>footage. They remain in formation in all sections of the clips.
>They also vary in brightness (flicker?) note the leading object
>in the two groups of three objects in particular.

Part of the data that you have failed to consider in surmising
your theory are the declarations of the personnel of the Merlin.
(Ironically a very common occurence when trying to "explain
away" a UFO sighting, i.e., discounting eye witness testimony).

>You can not rule out the man made lighter than air devices that
>I have suggested. I have seen many of these in action and they
>move the same as in the Mexican footage. My image enhancements
>show identical features. I have tested the evidence. This is my
>results.

>When a lighter than air device like the hot air balloons is
>drifting in a 200 m/h air current, the flame will remain
>unaffected by the speed of the wind because the while device is
>moving at the same speed. The flame in the hoax devices is also
>protected from outside conditions to a great degree because it
>is burning up inside the bag hence protected from excess wind.

>The 'Twins' have a second illumination directly underneath. This
>is not a phantom lens reflection from the convex lens in the
>zoom lens, they appear to be attached to the main object. This
>is a known feature of the hoax device. I have an excellent
>example of this on video of a hoax device filmed using infrared.
>These secondary smaller objects should change position during
>the footage if they were lens reflection, but they do not.

>A lighter than air device will also move faster than the bulk of
>clouds. I have seen this here.

>My analysis results does not make me a debunker or sceptic, long
>way from it. My tests on the photographic evidence when compared
>to known hoax type objects points me toward my conclusions. This
>is a much more solid basis to stake my claim than just watching
>the video footage then commenting.


>Barry Taylor

Here are two questions that arise, based on your theory, that
haven't been explained:

1. How do you explain the "invisiblity" of the objects to the
naked eye?

2. How do you explain the erratic speeds and reversal of
direction of the objects?

I'm afraid IMHO your theory is in good company with meteors,
space debris, oil well fires, flares, ball lightning--it just
doesn't add-up when analyzing "all the data."


Respectfully,

Frank Warren










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   May > May 31

               Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:04:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:40:00 -0400
Subject: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3


Source: Profindpages.com

http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/29/MN132.htm

05-29-04


Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

Although Arrowhead UFOs are not the most common of UFO shapes
sighted, this sighting was even more unusual because of its
duration. The craft was seen by the entire crew of the SS
British Grenadier for exactly 3 days!

The event occurred around April/May 1969 while the SS British
Grenadier was sailing through the Gulf of Mexico. The UFO
appeared directly above the ship at exactly noon on the first
day. It just seemed to appear as nobody saw it arrive and it
remained above the ship for the next 3 days.

According to reports the craft was approximately 1 mile above
the ship and dark blue in colour during the day. At night it
appeared as a silvery light. The weather conditions were good at
the time, with a clear sky and calm seas.

On the first day of its arrival (one minute after midnight), the
ships engines suddenly stopped and only emergency lighting and
steering were available. The crew managed to restart the
engines, which took some time as all the pumps had to be shut
down and restarted manually.

The second day saw all the food storage refridgerators closed
down and no reason for this event could be found.

On the third day at 11.45 pm one of the crew noticed that the
lights were out in the ships air conditioning room and a door
leading to the crews accomodation was opened. The engineer
passed through the door to investigate and spoke to two firemen.
But the next day the same door was found welded shut!
Apparently, the door had been welded before the ship left dock
(because of a fault), but the door was definitely open for the
engineer to have walked through it.

A few minutes after this event the engines stopped again,
leaving just emergency lighting and steering (again one minute
after midnight!). They were restarted once more, but later it
was discovered that the starter motor for the emergency diesel
generator had been dismantled. All the parts of the generator
were neatly placed by the machine as if someone had examined it.

At exactly noon on the third day the craft vanished in the same
manner as it had appeared.

Although all these events were recorded in the ships log, this
is the first time (to our knowledge) that this event has been
published. We would be interested in hearing from any of the
crew that were aboard the SS British Grenadier at this time, in
order to obtain more information about this sighting. If you
were there and would like to write to us, please send an email
to: Grenadier.nul