UFO UpDates
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   Jun

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Jun 2004

  Jun 1:

   Revised FLIR Translation With Concise Time Codes - John Velez [354]
   Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - Brad Sparks [147]
   Re: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - Sparks - Brad Sparks [18]
   Re: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - Ledger - Don Ledger [11]
   What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? - Greg Boone [33]
   Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - Greg Boone [3]
   UFO Sighted Over Barcelona - Scott Corrales [22]
   Cattle Mutilations In Rio Cuarto Argentina - Scott Corrales [49]
   Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 - Terry Groff [11]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 22 - John Hayes [258]
   Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 - Vicente-Juan
   Ballester Olmos [6]
   Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 - Ray Stanford [51]
   Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 - Alfred Lehmberg
   [17]
   Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 - Terry Groff [5]
   Up In The Sky A Bird Or A Flying Saucer? - Frank Warren [18]
   Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - Laurent Leger [57]
   Re: UFO Sighted Over Barcelona - Stanford - Ray Stanford [34]
   Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - Don Ledger [45]
   Re: Revised FLIR Translation With Concise Time - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Secrecy News -- 06/01/04 - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [90]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Boone - Greg Boone [25]
   Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - William Wise [8]
   FSR On CD - More Volumes Available! - Joe McGonagle [10]
   Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night - Brian Adams [16]

  Jun 2:

   Re: 3 Needed To Help In 32-Year-Old UFO Mystery - - Larry Hatch [24]
   Sonora California 04-31-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [39]
   Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - Ray Stanford [11]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [21]
   The Black Vault Has Record-Crushing Month - John Greenewald, Jr. [50]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Ledger - Don Ledger [11]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [55]
   Re: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - McCoy - GT McCoy [27]
   Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 - Larry Hatch [14]
   Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? - - Robert Grass [19]
   Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - Brad Sparks [81]
   Portage County 1966 - Strangers In The Night - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [462]
   Re: FSR On CD - More Volumes Available! - Hale - Roy Hale [14]
   New Sightings Statistics Page - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night - - Bill Weber [7]
   Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? - - Ray Stanford [7]

  Jun 3:

   It's World UFO Day - Hannes la Rue [9]
   North Vancouver B.C. 05-14-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [35]
   Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [31]
   Crop Circles As Oracles - UFO UpDates - Toronto [75]
   Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - Laurent Leger [72]
   Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? - - Steven Kaeser [22]
   Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night - - Stanton Friedman [6]
   Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [10]
   Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? - - Jerome Clark [9]
   Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? - - Brian Adams [18]
   Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - Brad Sparks [10]
   Filers Files #24 - 2004 - George A. Filer [529]
   UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet Airliner - Brian Vike - HBCC
   UFO [58]
   Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 - Frank Warren [37]
   The Black Vault Shines Light Of Ufological Exposure - Larry W. Bryant
   [38]
   Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 - Bruce Maccabee
   [23]
   Re: New Sightings Statistics Page - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [11]
   Re: FO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet - Billy Booth [6]
   Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? - - Frank Warren [31]
   Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway - Ray Stanford [37]
   Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk - Louise Lowry [27]
   Portuguese Air Force On Alert Over UFO Sighting - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [44]

  Jun 4:

   Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night - - Brian Adams [6]
   Re: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet - Don Ledger [9]
   Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations Lacking - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [140]
   Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? - - Ray Stanford [14]
   Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk - Don Ledger [22]
   Secrecy News -- 06/03/04 - Steven Aftergood [112]
   Re: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet - Nick Balaskas [40]
   AP Meteor Crash Report Was Hoax - Kenny Young [49]
   Re: Portuguese Air Force On Alert Over UFO - Joaquim Fernandes [21]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #385 - Alfred Lehmberg [126]
   UFO Sighting In Spain And Portugal - Scott Corrales [51]

  Jun 5:

   Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Miller - Stuart Miller [16]
   Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk - Ray Stanford [26]
   Kittanning's Mothman Link Lives On For Residents - Loren Coleman [8]
   Re: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations - Mike Hallal [13]
   Six Days In Roswell - UFO UpDates - Toronto [69]
   Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? - Greg Boone [16]
   Re: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations - Alfred Lehmberg [28]
   UFO Review - issue 2, June 2004 - Miller - Stuart Miller [3]

  Jun 6:

   Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [6]
   Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Stanford - Ray Stanford [51]
   Alien Reported In Syria - Scott Corrales [21]
   New Entry For SKEPTIC Bibliography - Terry W. Colvin [42]
   When Even Mathematicians Don't Understand The Math - Terry W. Colvin
   [132]
   Interview With Chilean Alien' Photographer - Scott Corrales [94]

  Jun 7:

   Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Ray Dickenson [12]
   SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - UFO UpDates - Toronto [75]
   Chile: "As A Photographer I Don't Believe It's A - Scott Corrales [30]
   Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? - - Jan Aldrich [39]
   Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk - Peter Davenport -
   NUFORC [63]
   Re: Alien Reported In Syria - Hall - Richard Hall [3]
   The UFO "Myth" - Ray Dickenson [32]
   Re: When Even Mathematicians Don't Understand The - Rod Brock [48]
   SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Mac Tonnies [8]
   FOIA Help Needed - Kenny Young [103]
   Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk - Ray Stanford [24]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - McCoy - GT McCoy [9]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Stanford - Ray Stanford [62]
   Secrecy News -- 06/07/04 - Steven Aftergood [101]
   Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Stanford - Ray Stanford [14]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [5]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Ledger - Don Ledger [11]
   Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Hall - Richard Hall [3]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Hall - Richard Hall [4]
   Brazilian UFO Magazine Reaches Edition # 100 - A.J. Gevaerd [25]
   Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Velez - John Velez [7]

  Jun 8:

   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Stanford - Ray Stanford [7]
   Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [13]
   Metallics Found In Coal? - Colin Stevenson [17]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - McCoy - GT McCoy [6]
   Skylarks Helped By Crop Circles? - Diana Cammack [43]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [20]
   Chilean College Students Tape Red Object - Scott Corrales [50]
   Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [25]
   Re: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency - Tim Shell [5]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 23 - John Hayes [423]
   Mexican Hat-Dance - John Velez [43]

  Jun 9:

   Re: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency - Stanton Friedman
   [6]
   Some Recent Manitoba UFOs - Chris Rutkowski [68]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Warren - Frank Warren [147]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson
   [18]
   Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [78]
   NEO Cons - Terry W. Colvin [87]
   Mexico UFO 'Twins' Clip Enhanced - Barry Taylor [14]
   Re: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency - Colin Stevenson [7]
   Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Woolf - Maurice Woolf [7]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [20]
   Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz Factor'? - Chris Rutkowski
   [47]
   Filers Files #25 - 2004 - George A. Filer [602]

  Jun 10:

   Japanese Startled By Parque Forestal 'Alien' - Scott Corrales [49]
   Secrecy News -- 06/09/04 - Steven Aftergood [122]
   Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? - Boone - Greg Boone [4]
   Richard Dolan's June 2004 Update - Richard Dolan [62]
   Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [54]
   Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [11]
   A Phial For You? - Stuart Miller [21]
   Re: NEO Cons - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [33]
   True UFO Believer Hopes You Too Will See Light - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [218]
   'Government Lies And UFOs' - Alfred Lehmberg [28]
   Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [37]
   Re: NEO Cons - Shell - Tim Shell [24]
   Re: NEO Cons - Ledger - Don Ledger [23]
   FLIR Pro From Dover - Alfred Lehmberg [51]
   Photo Of Venus And Pelican - Norm [4]

  Jun 11:

   Potential Passenger A Sasquatch - UFO UpDates - Toronto [52]
   Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Shell - Tim Shell [13]
   Re: Photo Of Venus And Pelican - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [7]
   Re: Photo Of Venus And Pelican - Groff - Terry Groff [2]
   UFO Photographed in Monte Novo Portugal - Scott Corrales [31]
   Re: NEO Cons - Reason - Cathy Reason [11]
   Forteans Not The Only Ones Tempted By Conspiracism - Terry W. Colvin
   [83]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger - Don Ledger [7]
   Re: Possible Explanations For Parque Forestal - Scott Corrales [131]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson
   [25]
   Re: NEO Cons - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [14]
   'Aliens Have Been Around For Years' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [106]
   Re: NEO Cons - Shell - Tim Shell [37]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [27]
   Alien Invasion Or Human Fantasy? The 1966-67 UFO - Richard Hall [22]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Velez - John Velez [53]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger - Don Ledger [10]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - UFO UpDates - Toronto [22]
   Secrecy News -- 06/11/04 - Steven Aftergood [129]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson
   [15]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger - Don Ledger [15]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Sparks - Brad Sparks [114]

  Jun 12:

   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Hall - Richard Hall [18]
   Re: True UFO Believer Hopes You Too Will See Light - Colm Kelleher
   [204]
   Prickly Paradigm Press - Terry W. Colvin [10]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Velez - John Velez [51]
   Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [52]
   Re: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz - Larry Hatch [11]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [38]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [51]
   Re: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz - John Velez [37]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [16]

  Jun 13:

   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Hall - Richard Hall [19]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger - Don Ledger [23]
   UK Abduction Study Extension - Nick Pope [24]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Yturria - Santiago Yturria [47]
   Re: 'Aliens Have Been Around For Years' - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson
   [10]
   1,000,000 Visits At Brazilian UFO Magazine's - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista
   UFO [25]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [54]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [13]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [28]
   Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This World - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [67]

  Jun 14:

   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [20]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger - Don Ledger [6]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger - Don Ledger [10]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Yturria - Santiago Yturria [115]
   Re: Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This - GT McCoy [9]
   300 UFO Magazines On eBay! - Roy Hale - The Lost Haven [8]
   BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Roy Hale - The Lost Haven [20]
   Re: 1,000,000 Visits At Brazilian UFO Magazine's - Bruce Maccabee [1]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser - Jim Speiser [4]
   MIB Another Thought - Gates - Robert Gates [78]
   Sloppy Stats Shame Science - Terry W. Colvin [82]
   The UFO Myth - Terry W. Colvin [30]
   Genealogy Detective Needed - Young - Kenny Young [11]
   Exhibition Traces UFO Signs In Slovakia - Terry Groff [28]
   Re: The UFO Myth - Shell - Tim Shell [19]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser - Frank Warren [3]
   New Sightings Map Of Canadian Maritime Provinces - Larry Hatch [12]
   Re: Genealogy Detective Needed - Stanford - Ray Stanford [13]
   Re: Sloppy Stats Shame Science - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [17]
   Re: MIB Another Thought - Hall - Richard Hall [13]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Stanford - Ray Stanford [6]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Ledger - Don Ledger [3]
   Re: Genealogy Detective Needed - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [6]
   Re: Secrecy News -- 06/14/04 - Steven Aftergood [115]
   Corso Critiques - Terry W. Colvin [19]

  Jun 15:

   Re: The UFO Myth - Christol - Michael Christol [3]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser - Jim Speiser [12]
   MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity' - Mike Jamieson [25]
   What's Happened To Weird? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [123]
   Utah UFO? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [62]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [157]
   Re: Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This - Jim Speiser [9]
   Re: MIB Another Thought - Gates - Robert Gates [7]
   Funky4Worlds? - Colin Stevenson [8]
   Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Burns - Max Burns [72]
   Re: The UFO Myth - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [32]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Hall - Richard Hall [16]
   Re: MIB Another Thought - Hall - Richard Hall [12]
   Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Hale - Roy Hale [6]
   Re: Genealogy Detective Needed - Stanford - Ray Stanford [7]
   Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Warren - Frank Warren [14]
   Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [14]
   Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Capt. Alejandro Franz
   [165]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 24 - John Hayes [360]
   ecrecy News -- 06/15/04 - Steven Aftergood [94]
   Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Burns - Max Burns [28]
   Ufology And Science - Nick Pope [35]
   Reagan's UFO Sightings - Grant Cameron [12]
   Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of - Larry Hatch [10]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Alfred Lehmberg [19]
   Re: Ufology And Science - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [20]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall - Richard Hall [5]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - Hall - Richard Hall [10]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Bruce Maccabee [4]

  Jun 16:

   Five UFOs In Skies Above Emley Moor - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [24]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Cameron - Grant Cameron [5]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Ray Stanford [35]
   Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of - Mike Jamieson [13]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Brad Sparks [81]
   Re: Ufology And Science - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [8]
   Re: MIB Another Thought - Bilodeau - Michael Bilodeau [33]
   Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Greg Boone [6]
   Aliens And Pseudo-Aliens - Mac Tonnies [53]
   Re: MIB Another Thought - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [65]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall - Richard Hall [11]
   Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of - Richard Hall [14]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [30]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Oberg - James Oberg [5]
   Ray Fowler's New Book - Raymond Fowler [17]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [10]

  Jun 17:

   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Gildas Bourdais [20]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Miller - Stuart Miller [7]
   Neat Mars Rover Movies - Trevor Page [4]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Terry Groff [10]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Speiser - Jim Speiser [4]
   Re: Can I Get A Witness? - Boone - Greg Boone [27]
   Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - 06-22-04 - Stanton Friedman [18]
   Re: Ufology And Science - Pope - Nick Pope [14]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Pope - Nick Pope [15]
   Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Hebert - Amy Hebert [15]
   Re: Ufology And Science - White - Eleanor White [11]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall - Richard Hall [9]
   Eisenhower And Aliens Again? - Greg Boone [6]
   Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies - Daniel Guenther [20]
   Re: Ray Fowler's New Book - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [6]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [17]
   Filers Files #26 - 2004 - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto [530]
   Re: Chile: Man Who Mistook Wildcat for Chupacabras - Scott Corrales
   [35]
   Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of - Steven Kaeser [19]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Brad Sparks [93]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Brenda Denzler [5]
   Re: Secrecy News -- 06/17/04 - Steven Aftergood [99]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Ray Stanford [37]
   Re: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - Boone - Greg Boone [15]
   Audio History of Alien Abduction & Animal - Wendy Connors [33]
   Re: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - Groff - Terry Groff [4]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall - Michael Bilodeau [11]

  Jun 18:

   Military 'Coming Out' On UFOs? - Colin Stevenson [35]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [3]

  Jun 19:

   Test - List Server Problems - UFO UpDates - Toronto [6]

  Jun 20:

   List Software Problems Continue - UFO UpDates - Toronto [7]
   Re: Five UFOs In Skies Above Emley Moor - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson
   [33]
   Greenewald To MC 2004 MUFON Symposium - John Greenewald, Jr. [40]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - Laurent Leger [26]
   Mexico: Evaporation May Be Evident - Victor Viggiani [70]
   Re: Ufology And Science - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [10]
   Re: Eisenhower And Aliens Again? - Koch - Joachim Koch [11]

  Jun 21:

   Re: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - - Giuliano 'Jimmy'
   Marinkovic [10]

  Jun 22:

   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall - Michael Bilodeau [11]
   Timothy Good Researches UFOs Stories In Helena - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
   [7]
   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [24]
   Secrecy News -- 06/21/04 - Steven Aftergood [114]
   Recruiting For Covert Agencies like MJ-12 - Bob Huff [80]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Bruce Maccabee [20]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Man Finds Tough Sell For His 'UFO Discovery' - Frank Warren [127]
   The Truth Is Out There! - Frank Warren [22]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - Marie-Josee LaChance [5]
   Alien Autopsy 'Expert' Charged With Felony Murder - Loren Coleman [117]
   Press Release Regarding The Roswell Dig Diaries - Steven Kaeser [72]
   Wilburt Brockhouse Smith And The "Prime Directive" - Alfred Lehmberg
   [178]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Gildas Bourdais [4]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Gildas Bourdais [9]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Gildas Bourdais [5]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Gildas Bourdais [3]
   Secrecy News - 06/22/04 - Steven Aftergood [103]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 25 - Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [457]
   Re: Man Finds Tough Sell For His 'UFO Discovery' - - Ray Dickenson [27]
   Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Greg Boone [40]
   Corrado Balducci? - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [4]
   Re: Alien Autopsy 'Expert' Charged With Felony - Tim Shell [2]
   Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Clark - Jerome Clark [7]

  Jun 23:

   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Santiago Yturria [100]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Eric Wenger [22]
   Phoenix Lights 2 - June 13, 2004 - Jim Kelly [21]
   Friedman/Shostak Debate? - William Wise [10]
   Recording Webcasts & Other Sources - UFO UpDates - Toronto [17]
   Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest - Greg Boone [13]
   Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Boone - Greg Boone [3]
   'Twisted Light... For Talking To Aliens' - Diana Cammack [285]
   Re: Phoenix Lights 2 - June 13, 2004 - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [18]
   Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Clark - Jerome Clark [22]
   Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [9]
   Re: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources - Wise - William Wise [7]
   Re: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest - - Steven Kaeser [23]

  Jun 24:

   Re: il Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Frank Warren [32]
   Teleportation Breakthrough Made - Ed Gehrman [14]
   Re: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest - - Michael Bilodeau [43]
   SpaceShipOne Scrapes Into History - Joe McGonagle [6]
   Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Wendy Connors [48]
   Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - - Brian Adams [24]
   Filers Files #27 - 2004 - George A. Filer [611]
   Alistair Sutherland? - Philip Mantle [24]
   Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate? - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [7]
   2004 Humanoid Updates - Albert Rosales [1220]
   Re: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources - Page - Trevor Page [9]
   Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Royce J. Myers III [20]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [26]
   UFOparanormal.com - Joe McGonagle [6]
   Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of - David Chace [23]
   Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [24]
   June 24 1947 - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [4]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Chace - David Chace [16]
   Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [43]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Boone - Greg Boone [15]
   Phoenix Lights ll - William H Bolt [34]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [8]
   Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Boone - Greg Boone [51]
   Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Adams - Brian Adams [6]
   Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Connors - Wendy Connors [27]
   J-Rod And The Challenge - Don Ecker [35]
   Secrecy News -- 06/24/04 - Steven Aftergood [147]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Shell - Tim Shell [1]

  Jun 25:

   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [7]
   Re: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - McCoy - GT McCoy [14]
   Mary Rodwell To Lecture In UK - Chris Evers [37]
   Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [56]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Myers - Royce J. Myers III [17]
   How To See UFOs - Barry Taylor [12]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Myers - Royce J. Myers III [2]
   Re: ngels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [30]
   The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part I - UFO UpDates - Toronto [389]
   The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part II - UFO UpDates - Toronto [504]
   The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part III - UFO UpDates - Toronto [585]
   The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part IV - UFO UpDates - Toronto [801]
   The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part V - UFO UpDates - Toronto [365]
   The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part VI - UFO UpDates - Toronto [44]

  Jun 26:

   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Shell - Tim SHell [6]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Of June 15, 2004 - Bolt - William Bolt [14]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Chace - David Chace [20]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Boone - Greg Boone [15]
   Friedman/Shostak Debate & NUFORC MUFON Paper - Peter Davenport - NUFORC
   [71]
   (SK) New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography (Burton & - Terry W. Colvin
   [42]
   (SK) New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography (Kelly) - Terry W. Colvin [35]
   Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Teri - Teri Hayes [68]
   Re: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part V - Burns - Max Burns [18]
   Re: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Hatch - Larry Hatch [21]
   'UFO' Spotted In Irish Skies - Frank Warren [20]
   Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - Frank Warren [56]
   Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - - Jerome Clark [18]
   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Myers - Royce J. Myers III [21]
   Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Nadi - Mo Nadi [45]
   Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate & NUFORC MUFON Paper - - Terry Groff [11]
   Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - - David Rudiak [14]
   Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - - John Velez [46]

  Jun 27:

   Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Miller - Stuart Miller [6]
   Pelicans Take Flight - Stuart Miller [33]
   Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Eleanor White [14]
   Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - - GT McCoy [14]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Crash Site? - Mantle - Philip Mantle [8]
   Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - - Kelly Freeman [15]

  Jun 28:

   Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [10]
   Call For Papers - Hannes la Rue [52]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Crash Site? - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [23]
   Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Hall - Richard Hall [15]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Shell - Tim Shell [12]
   Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - - Will Bueche [55]
   Sharon Larkin - Mike Wray [26]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Chace - David Chace [56]
   Two *U* UFO Database Pages In Poor French - Larry Hatch [26]
   Year Later Alien Mystique Hovers Over Rockville - Frank Warren [95]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [22]
   Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - - Ray Stanford [39]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Warren - Frank Warren [5]
   Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged - Alfred Lehmberg [83]
   Re: New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography - Ledger - Don Ledger [9]
   Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - - Colm Kelleher -
   NIDS [29]

  Jun 29:

   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Shell - Tim Shell [8]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [11]
   Bob Shell And The Fox Alien Autopsy TV Shows - Philip Mantle [20]
   Bob Shell's Side Of The Story - Philip Mantle [14]
   Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Hayes - Teri Hayes [50]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Ledger - Don Ledger [5]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Toal - Ted Toal [25]
   Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged - GT McCoy [12]
   Re: Fairy Circles Vs. Fairy Rings - Colvin - Terry W. Colvin [52]

  Jun 30:

   Re: Bob Shell's Side Of The Story - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [9]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [45]
   Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged - Alfred Lehmberg
   [15]
   Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged - Steven Kaeser [13]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Warren - Frank Warren [15]
   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [16]
   Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory - - Frank Warren [24]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 1

              Revised FLIR Translation With Concise Time Codes

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 16:46:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:03:45 -0400
Subject: Revised FLIR Translation With Concise Time Codes


Hello All:

This is a revised (final) version of the Translation. It
includes much tighter time coding for any one who may wish to
follow along with the audio portion of the recording. I also
made a few corrections. (ie; I changed all of the 'Smile'
comments throughout the document.)

Respectfully submitted for your edification.


Regards to All,

John Velez
For Bruce Maccabee on behalf of Jaime Maussan,
Santiago Yturria and myself.

------


English Translation Of Audio From The Flir Video Recording
Aboard A Mexican Air Force Merlin C26A During A UFO Incident

Date: March 5, 2004
Location: In air space over the City of Carmen, State of Campeche

Translation by Santiago Yturria with assistance on final draft
from John Velez.

Note: Voice identification, below, does not correspond to the
same crew members in every segment. Voices are labelled in
order of appearance in each segment.

-----

PART 1:
         [The C26A is patrolling known drug smuggling flight
          paths.]

FLIR VIDEO TIME: (Hour/Min/Sec) 12:55:09 to 12:55:29

         [Crew Conversation]

VOICE A: Do you have the lagoon in sight?
VOICE B: Yes it is to the right.

VOICE A: We get to the lagoon and we'll do that.
VOICE B: To the right?
VOICE A: Yes.

VOICE B: And we go back to the point, or do we move away?
VOICE A: We move away, that is, we make a pattern more or less
         like an arc.

VOICE B: Okay.


FLIR VIDEO TIME: 13:16:22 to 13:16:33

         [no dialogue]

FLIR VIDEO TIME: 16:42:44 to 16:43:30

VOICE A: Almost to 12 of our position, distance, 2.9, speed, 75.
VOICE B: Pan more to the left because of the sun.
VOICE C: Yes.

VOICE B: Pan to the left
VOICE A: Okay I see it.

VOICE A: The runway is here at one
VOICE C: Where are you?
VOICE A: Ehhh, at 12 of our position, 2.3.
VOICE B: A runway

Encounter with the UFOs begins:

PART 2:
          [Unknown traffic appears. The crew begins to take
           action. They report a target to the base which is
           suspected to be a clandestine airplane.]

16:45:33
VOICE A: I'll tell you right away
VOICE B: A position?
VOICE C: A position.. 7- 4

16:45:38
VOICE A: At 12 of our position, I still have it there
VOICE D: A traffic
VOICE E: Can you get me the headquarters officer, Captain Danzon
         to let him know that we are reading a target.

16:45:45
VOICE A: Point Carmen 18- 4
VOICE B: It's marking a speed of 206 and has a heading of 301

16:52:03
VOICE A: It's behind the clouds.
VOICE A: What could it have been?
VOICE B: Don't know. It went on the other side - exactly where I
         had it.

         [The FLIR operator trying to track the object through
          the clouds.]

16:52:52
VOICE A: Come, come.
VOICE B: Go.

VOICE A: Right, right.
VOICE B: Here it goes! Here it goes!!

16:53:00
VOICE B: There it goes... there it goes!


PART 3:

         [The object is clearly visible on the FLIR. The crew
          begins to wonder out loud about the unknown light.]

16:53:03
VOICE A: What is it Juarez? Juarez what is it?
VOICE B: It's a point.
VOICE C: A point. It's there.
VOICE D: It's there directly behind us.

16:53:10
VOICE C: Its correct, it's now at our 7 o'clock position at
         10.5 miles distance.

16:53:16
VOICE C: It's course is, 2- 8- 3 with a speed of 3-3-4.
VOICE D: More.

16:55:16
VOICE A: At least we have contact with it on the FLIR and we've
         had Radar contact all the time.

16:55:22
VOICE B: What's its altitude - more or less, boss?
VOICE A: I think it's at the same altitude as us.
VOICE B: Aahh.

16:55:35
VOICE C: The FLIR angle is... (recto) pointing straight ahead.
VOICE C: Exactly.
VOICE A: It's above us
VOICE C: That's right.
VOICE B: Ah, that's why you couldn't see it.

16:55:45
VOICE D: I'm almost losing it on the Radar, it's almost off the
         screen.
VOICE B: Aahh.
VOICE A:  .

16:56:08
VOICE C: It's exactly one mile from Carmen. From Carmen.
VOICE B: How many miles?

16:56:19
VOICE C: One or two miles from Carmen.

16:56:26
VOICE D: I don't have it on the screen but the Radar is still
         marking the distance at 37 miles.

16:56:28
VOICE C: It's now over Carmen.

16:56:59
VOICE B: Well, then it's been lost.
VOICE D: Here it comes.

16:57:02
VOICE C: It's passing by Carmen.
VOICE D: It is still going.

16:57:19
VOICE D: What's it doing?
VOICE C: It's turning.
VOICE D: Is it turning right?
VOICE C: Yes.


16:59:36
VOICE A: Just a light. It couldn't be distinguished
VOICE B: It couldn't be determined if it was a plane or
         something else.

VOICE C: It is the same one that we saw awhile ago.
VOICE D: Yes.

VOICE E: Paying attention, eh?


PART 4:

17:03:36  [Two objects appear]
VOICE A: Let me check.

17:03:39
VOICE B: At 7 at the same altitude.
VOICE C: There are some clouds, it must be seen over there.

VOICE D: [almost stuttering] That's it but, let's see, look for
         that thing that is behind us.

VOICE E: Look how it appears. It looks like it's in two parts.

17:03:56
VOICE C: It is at our 7 or 8 o'clock position.
VOICE C: The strange thing is, that it has a point travelling in
         front position. A little point, in front of it.

VOICE C: It's not there? There goes another one.

17:04:08
         [More objects, in formation, appear in the FLIR. The
          operator detects them and is moving the FLIR camera
          backward to count them.]

VOICE F: Lets' see, what do we have here?
VOICE A: Nothing sir. Hold on, let me look.

17:04:17
VOICE C: Commander what's that?
VOICE F: At what distance did you have them, Tellez?
VOICE C: Ehh?
VOICE A: Hey, beware, this is like...

17:04:24
VOICE C: [Almost shouting] There are more coming.
         There are more... they are behind. There are ten, eleven objects.
VOICE A: There are many objects.
VOICE F: Ehh?

17:04:34
VOICE C: They must be at 9 o'clock from our position now.
VOICE F: At 9. Hold on.

17:04:38
VOICE A: At 9, same altitude almost, almost.
VOICE F: Okay, hold on.
VOICE C: Affirmative. They're going.

17:04:42
VOICE C: They're going.
VOICE C: Go one..
VOICE A: One
VOICE C: They are going (referring to the 'Twins') with the
         others bringing up the rear... the ones that follow.

17:05:29
VOICE F: My God, what's that.
VOICE B: They are (corretiendo) on the run. [nervous laughter]

17:0532
VOICE F: What's that? Let's see. Try to focus.
VOICE C: It's at maximum.

17:05:38
VOICE F: Okay, don't let them leave you behind.
VOICE F: Okay.
VOICE C: Go.

17:05:42
VOICE F: Follow that one Tellez, don't leave it.

17:05:46
VOICE C: There they go, all of them, there are approximately
         ten, did you see them? Have you seen them?
VOICE F: You follow them.

17:06:25
VOICE C: There they go.
VOICE A: There they go.

17:06:28
VOICE A: Three, four, five. six... Are there six?

17:06:33
VOICE F: Below or above? Above? Where.
VOICE C: In the middle, there they go, at the same altitude.

17:06:35
VOICE A: There they go look, one, two, three, four, five, six,
         seven... no, there are eight.

17:06:43
VOICE F: This is terrible...
VOICE C. They are going to be seen better - there.
VOICE C: And they're going at a speed that...

17:06:52
VOICE C: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, I have eight
         on the screen.

17:06:55
VOICE F: Follow them, don't lose them!

17:07:00
VOICE A: Are they at the same altitude, Tellez?
VOICE C: Affirmative. Above.

17:07:07
VOICE C: Eight, nine, ten, eleven, counting all the ones in the
         back.
VOICE C: Two, four, six, eight, ten, eleven.

17:07:16
VOICE F: [Apparently talking to the base]
         Listen we don't know what are we seeing, they are
         luminous objects that are flying at the same altitude
         as us. We do not know what their distance is.

17:07:25
VOICE B: At what position do you have it, Tellez?
VOICE C: At 8.
VOICE F: At 8 or 9.

17:07:30
VOICE B: At 9. I don't think the Radar may read it, we have a
         blind angle there, Sir.
VOICE F: At 8 or 9?
VOICE B: Yes.

17:07:37
VOICE B. We have 20 degrees of blind angle there.
VOICE F: But you were seeing them?

17:07:42
VOICE B: Yes, but it's strange, now I have nothing.

17:14:59 [One huge object is seen on the FLIR screen.]
VOICE A: [nervous giggle] Why are they following us? Maintain that.
VOICE B: They are at 12 he said.

17:15:05
VOICE C: No. They are at 1.
VOICE A: Well that's one, but we have another at 9.

17:05:08
VOICE D: We have one at 9.
VOICE B: Ah I have one here, let me check the one at 9.

17:15:12
VOICE D: And ahead there are another two.
VOICE A: And they're the same ones, eh?
VOICE D: We have them ahead - in the middle -and at 8
VOICE B: [Laughing] Ahh, fuck...

17:15:22
VOICE A: [Laughing] Fasten your seat belts!
VOICE D: Let's see...
VOICE B: [nervous laughter] Don't be frightened.

17:15:26
VOICE D: If you could check through the window, we have one
         going along at approximately 1. The rest are still going
         along at our 9.

17:15:33
VOICE A. Does that means we are surrounded?
VOICE D: Well... I don't know.
VOICE B: At what distance.
VOICE D: The radar just indicates the point.

17:15:40 [in a loud voice, as if making an announcement]
VOICE A: Boys, today is your lucky day!! [crew chuckles]
VOICE B: At what distance.
VOICE A. And that one is getting near to the other one.
VOICE D: Do you mark the distance?

17:15:49
VOICE B: Okay, the one that we have at 1 from our position, I have
         it at 19 miles, at 1 o'clock from our position, going
         at 52 knots.

17:15:59
VOICE D: The one that you have at 1, I have one at 9 and the one
         that goes ahead of the one at 9. Approximately at 9,
         but going along in front are two luminous points.
VOICE B: At what position, Tellez?
VOICE D: At 9 of our position.
VOICE B: At 9? Hold on, let me check...

17:16:33 [An object is seen on the screen near the airplane's
          left propeller.]

17:16:35
VOICE A: It's going along at our altitude - couldn't be.
VOICE B: The one that you have, what's it's position?
VOICE C: Which one? The one below the cloud? That one?
VOICE A: Yes.
VOICE C: Okay.
VOICE A: Roger.
VOICE B: That one you have there, what's it's position?

17:16:44
VOICE A: I have it at 9.

17:16:48 [Jovenes...]
VOICE D: Boys...
VOICE B: We are not alone. [nervous giggle]

17:16:52
VOICE D: Yes, we are not alone, right. It's true. How strange
         this is, they are surrounding us.

17:16:55
VOICE A: Hey the one that you have at 1?
VOICE B: At 1 I have it at 14.8 miles at 1 heading 99 with a group speed
         of 52.
VOICE A: Ah, that's the... he is following one and I'm following
         the other one.
VOICE D: Okay
VOICE A: I mean the other one(s).

17:17:31
VOICE D: What is this?
VOICE E: Couldn't be a fucking plane - it's stopped there!
VOICE D: Ehh?
VOICE A: Do you have it in sight?
VOICE B: It looks so=8A lets get near.

17:17:39 [Esta parado]
VOICE E: It's stopped there!
VOICE B: It's stopped?
VOICE D: No but the one that we have at 9...
VOICE E: It's in the clouds.

17:17:49
VOICE D: The one that we have at 9 is following us, is in
         formation with us, is in formation... at 9.
VOICE A: The one that you have at 1 where do you have it,
         Generation?
VOICE B: Hold on "Gene" I have it at... at 1.


17:18:15 [Hay uno que nos esta asercando]
VOICE A: There is one that is getting near to us.
VOICE B: At 1 of our position at 10 miles distance and speed of
         52.


17:26:30 [The FLIR is focusing an object that presents a pulsating
          shape and a luminous form.]

         [The pilot is apparently reporting this object to the
          base.]

17:26:34
VOICE A: The Radar has them. The FLIR has them. We are seeing on
         the FLIR a luminous object, it has an opposite course
         to us but it doesn't leave us, it's two miles behind us.

VOICE A: It does not move apart from us, no, it doesn't move
         apart from us.

17:26:53
VOICE A: Correct, who knows what it is.
VOICE A: Is it still with us, Marin?
VOICE B: Yes I still have it here.

17:27:11
VOICE A: Now it lost a bit of quality, I have a quality of 5.
VOICE B: Again look it looks...

VOICE A: The one that we had at 1 is lost now.
VOICE B: Okay.
VOICE A: It just left the Radar.

17:27:58  VOICE B: How weird is all this.

---------- END -------------------------------------------------






                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 1

               Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:37:43 -0400
Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


Mexico: Some Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway 186

Radar Analysis Followup - Mexican AF Case March 5, 2004

Thanks to a new map plotted by Dr. Bruce Maccabee I can follow
up on my suggestion yesterday that some but not all of the radar
targets that were tracked may have been trucks or vehicles
traveling 60 mph (52 knots) down Yucatan roads.

In fact from 1715 to 1718 (CST) on March 5, 2004, there were one
or more such radar targets and they actually match the headings
of the roughly west-east Yucatan Highway 186 that the Mexican AF
C-26A aircraft flew over at 1718

The aircraft was heading almost due East, toward heading 81 degs
True, when the voice transcript shows the radar operator
reporting at about 1715 a radar target off to their right front
at about 1 o'clock position, 19 nautical miles away, traveling
52 knots (60 mph).

The target maintained that speed and approximate 1 o'clock
position from the aircraft but the aircraft closed in on it
reducing the distance - at about the exact rate one would
expect from a 200-knot speed of the aircraft.

This is when a crewman first makes the important and anxious
remark "That means we are surrounded?" (A similar remark is
repeated again about two minutes later.)

The radar data at this time seems to have nothing to do with the
FLIR infrared targets being imaged, and as we all know nothing
visually was ever seen, though one must keep in mind the
cloudiness of the area.

In fact, at about that approximate distance away from the
aircraft at that time interval the Highway 186 curves slightly
more eastward from about a 110 deg heading to about a 95-deg
heading, on the stretch between and just past halfway point from
Francisco Escarcega (Es Carcega on other maps) and Xpujil. The
radar target was plotted at a 99-deg heading at about 1717 (the
exact times are subject to maybe 1 minute of uncertainty because
they are not keyed to timings to the second on specific
statements).

The headings are a virtually exact match, if not an absolutely
exact match depending on where the truck or vehicle on the road
may have been located. If the truck or vehicle was on the slight
eastward bend on the road at the time it was radar tracked as
heading 99 degs then the road might indeed have been curved at
exactly 99 degs along that stretch. How much instrument error
one can expect on heading calculations on the APS-143 radar is
not known.

PORTION OF RADAR DATA
1714:58-1716:14: 1 o'clock, 19 nm, 52 knots
[Crewman: "That means we are surrounded?"]
1716:32-1718:23: 1 o'clock, 14.8 nm, 52 knots, heading 99 degs
           1 o'clock, 10 nm, 52 knots

Note that at the aircraft's speed its relative velocity with
respect to the target at truck-speed traveling in roughly
parallel directions was about 150 knots - that's the closure
rate, or about 2.5 nautical miles per minute. In two minutes
from roughly 1715 to 1717 the distance closed by 4.2 nautical
miles, exactly as we would expect, keeping in mind the times are
very fuzzy and only to within a minute on each end of the
interval. From 1717 or slightly before, to about 1718, or
slightly after, the target again travels about 4.8 nm as we
would expect.

However, these truck or vehicle targets on Highway 186 do not
explain the aircraft-velocity 334-knot radar tracking at 1650 or
1652 (time error or typo in transcript), the helicopter-velocity
106-knot target at 1645, nor do they explain the 2-3-mile
distant targets that seemed to maintain constant distance and
speed with the Mexican AF airplane. And the radar targets may
have nothing to do with the FLIR images, most of which were
above the earth's horizon (sorry no flying trucks!). But with
the Mexican plane's APS-143 radar, I have already previously
pointed out there seems to be something wrong with the equipment
in showing speeds and course headings inconsistent with the
actual relatively constant distance of "the object" (assuming it
is just one object or even an "object" at all and not some kind
of electronic radar ghost existing only in the equipment's
electronics).

Also, the APS-143 radar is designed as a maritime surveillance
radar. Maritime surveillance does not usually use MTI (moving
target indicator) to eliminate fairly slow 52-knot tagets, but
what settings were actually in place on the aircraft are not
known to me. I do not know how well the APS-143 does in its
target discrimination capability in what is effectively an air
combat defense role against highly maneuverable fighters or
'UFOs'. Ships do not typically move around at high speed or
maneuverability, changing places or positions with each other,
at least not at the split-second speeds of aerial fighter jets
or attack helicopters or 'UFOs'. Aerial combat requires a
higher degree of radar ability to maintain lock and continuity
on single targets so as to not confuse multiple targets as a
single target and wrongly "connect the dots" between such
unrelated targets.

Of course, if there were multiple targets flying around the
Mexican AF that would call for some kind of explanation, even if
the APS-143 radar system was confusing them and deriving
nonexistent rapid "maneuvers" by jumping from one target to
another. In that case maybe the targets were not actually
performing erratic maneuvers, the radar was connecting dots
wrongly and thinking there were, but again why would there be
such close multiple aerial targets flying around the Mexican AF
C-26A in the first place and why could they not be seen visually
in the daylight?

We do have to distinguish 'non-UFO behavior' in the radar
targets and FLIR images from the 'UFO behavior' targets, if any.
It would be strange if during a UFO incident all non-UFO targets
of all types suddenly disappeared or were not seen at all - we
of course expect that non-UFO targets will still be there,
depending on the situation. In ordinary UFO cases when witnesses
see a UFO their vision is not blacked-out all around the UFO so
that the UFO is all they see and the only thing they see! They
usually continue to see birds, planes, stars, sun, moon, clouds,
whatever, etc. In previous postings I mentioned some of the
anomalous behavior and indications that Maccabee has so far
found in his detailed analysis to date, more work is being done
and more may turn up.

A Mexican AF crewman who sees a genuine UFO might very well get
so excited that he cannot later on carefully distinguish the UFO
from the non-UFO as it unravels before him. We however can
analyze his data (if we have it) at our leisure and do the
research that he cannot do second by second while up there
flying. We have the luxury of being able to spend the time and
apply the resources that the aircrew cannot spend while in
flight or do not have access to on the plane.

Unfortunately, according to Maccabee there were no radar data
tapes, all we have is the in-flight voice recordings of what the
radar operator chose to verbalize, plus fragmentary impressions
of crew members interviewed weeks later when exact details would
not be (and are not) remembered very well. The crew should have
been interviewed immediately after the incident in post-flight
debriefing to get exact radar traget behavior recorded while
fresh in memory. Maybe the Mexican AF did that and has not
revealed the debriefing reports.

To sum up from this and previous posts: Some, but not all, of
the Mexican radar targets seem to be vehicle traffic on Yucatan
Highway 186. Some of the FLIR infrared images or "lights" as I
previously posted, may possibly be sun reflections off of
distant satellites in Molniya-type orbits (what I call the Group
2 images), satellites in medium-high polar orbits (Group 3 FLIR
images though a question might be raised as to feasibility of
extended duration of reflections from such faster-moving
satellites), and geostationary satellites (Group 4 images). All
of these Group 2, 3 and 4 FLIR images are above the earth's
horizon line according to the FLIR system data,.and in some
cases the actual horizon line can be seen, according to
Maccabee. What I call the Group 1 infrared images are the only
ones in the right direction and occurring below earth horizon as
to possibly be due to oil fire burnoff of the Cantarell oil
fields as first suggested by Capt. Franz (but Cantarell cannot
explain all the other FLIR images as Franz seems to think). Some





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                   Re: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - Sparks

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:53:55 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:42:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - Sparks


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 14:54:40 +1000
>Subject: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed

>Information obtained when questioned on relative airspeed of the
>aircraft that videoed the Mexican UFOs.

>This is how a pilot in charge of our local airport explained it
>to me.....

>1. If an aircraft is flying at 200mph in a 200mph tail wind, the
>air speed of the aircraft registers as 200mph. But the air speed
>relative to a ground based observer would be that the aircraft
>is flying at 400mph.

>2. If an aircraft is flying into a 200mph headwind, the aircraft
>airspeed is still 200mph, but to the ground based observer, the
>aircraft would appear to be stationery.

>The Mexican air crew reporting their air speed was the actual
>air speed of the aircraft, unrelated to the outside speed of the
>wind.

>This means that no matter how fast the air currents were
>blowing, and in which direction, the air speed of the aircraft
>would still be reported as 200mph. Only a ground observer would
>notice any difference in the speed of the aircraft in the above
>conditions.

>If the objects were moving with a 200mph wind, and the aircraft
>was flying at 200mph, than the objects may appear to be moving
>faster than the aircraft to the pilots observing, depending on
>the wind direction relative to the flight direction of the
>aircraft.

>Relativity comes into play when the crew "assuming" they are
>flying at 200mph relative to the speed of the objects.

>To a ground based observer, they may measure the real time speed
>of the objects and aircraft totally different to what the air
>speed of the crews aircraft registers their speed.

>Therefore, the speed of the objects calculated by the air crew,
>would be different to ground radar calculations of their speed.

>Barry Taylor


Sorry but there would be no 200 mph air currents down at the
Mexican aircraft's low altitude of 3,500 meters or 11,500 feet,
as there was clearly no hurricane going on and the jet stream
does not dip that low in altitude or in latitude over the
Yucatan.  If it did where is the weather records to prove 200
mph winds on March 5, 2004, and in that location?

Also the aircraft's GPS positions latitude-longitude prove where
it was located and that it was flying at about 230 mph actual
ground speed, regardless of winds or any indicated air speed.

Just take the lat-lon figures off the screen and calculate it
yourself, prove it to yourself, just make sure you take them at
least a minute or so apart to give the instruments time to
properly update positions, and watch for when the plane turns
(at 1652 and slight adjustments later).

As I understand it the APS-143 radar calculates actual ground
speeds and headings of targets irrespective of winds that may or
not be be adding 'tail wind' or 'head wind' to the speeds.


Brad Sparks







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                   Re: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:02:06 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:50:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - Ledger


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 14:54:40 +1000
>Subject: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed

>Information obtained when questioned on relative airspeed of the
>aircraft that videoed the Mexican UFOs.

>This is how a pilot in charge of our local airport explained it
>to me.....

<snip>

Your pilot friend should have also told you, like this pilot
friend is telling you, that they know their ground speed. They
have GPS [far superior than the car, sailing or hiking types]
and that adds it up for you.

They also have DME - Distance Measuring Equipment - that keys
off the VOR at whatever airfield [probably TACAN (military for
VOR0] they are flying from or to.

But let's get off the 200 mph wind. There are no 200mph winds at
12,000 feet. Not unless you are in a hurricane or a tornado.

Don Ledger









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                  What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:20:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:56:31 -0400
Subject: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?


I figure most of the veteran researchers on this List have met
witnesses or whistleblowers or other researchers who suddenly
'fell off the face of the Earth' or 'Shut up tighter than a
clam'.

I'ld reckon most of you have also run into those folks who try
those intimidation tactics.

Reason I'm bringing this up is because there've been several top
UFO stories of late. Considering the atmosphere regarding
freedom of speech and expression under the current
administration I'm one for covering all bases just in case.

So the scenario is:

If suddenly there was an overt crackdown on UFO research,
witnesses, reports, broadcasters etc. what would you do? Do you
have your files backed up? Do you have a proxy to carry on
should you be silenced or unable to access the proper
communications equipment? Is there a plan for cascading backups
to Ham radio/shorwave etc.?

It's better than even money something more is going to break
soon. I, for one, need just two people to contact me regarding a
UFO report and if they 'can' I'll have something to put on the
table. Yet it's getting more and more likely that only one will
speak up. The other one suddenly has cold feet after an unusual
appearance in his newsroom.

Something weird is going on and I think it's because some things
have popped up that can't be easily explained, debunked or even
solved.

I've got a couple more news contacts to handle. If these people
suddenly clam up I would definitely have to stand on a soapbox
and exclaim that the news bureaus are gone. Kaput. Relegated to
the 'Piece of Shame' (ask some Greek Americans about the 'piece
of shame').


Best,

Greg








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             Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 01:07:09 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 08:00:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
>Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>Mexico: Some Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway 186

>Radar Analysis Followup - Mexican AF Case March 5, 2004

>Thanks to a new map plotted by Dr. Bruce Maccabee I can follow
>up on my suggestion yesterday that some but not all of the radar
>targets that were tracked may have been trucks or vehicles
>traveling 60 mph (52 knots) down Yucatan roads.


No. I can't believe it. I just cracked a joke a few emails ago
about how one of the new excuses would be car headlights.


Greg









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                         UFO Sighted Over Barcelona

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 06:38:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 08:03:30 -0400
Subject: UFO Sighted Over Barcelona



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
June 1, 2004


Source: Mundo Misterioso
Date: 06.01.04

Spain: UFO Sighting Over Barcelona

On Sunday, May 9, Ms. N.M. saw an unidentified flying object in
the skies over Barcelona while in the company of two of her
children.

N.M., a criminologist and businesswoman, was driving along the
Casteldefels to Barcelona highway at around midnight when both
she and her children witnessed "to the left of the road, that
is, toward the interior, since the beach is on the left" an
unidentified flying object of considerable size, described as a
"rhomboid with one of its vertexes broken off or truncated, or
rather folded in," having an shiny orange color.

The sighting occurred precisely on the stretch of road between
Gava and Viladecans and the witness contacted
www.mundomisterioso.com in case other witnesses had reported
seeing the same phenomenon.

==============================================================

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez.








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                 Cattle Mutilations In Rio Cuarto Argentina

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 06:53:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 08:07:25 -0400
Subject: Cattle Mutilations In Rio Cuarto Argentina


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
June 1, 2004


Source: Circulo Ovnil=F3gico Riocuartense - Argentina
Date: 06.01.2004

Argentina: Cattle Mutilations In Rio Cuarto

Urgent Dispatch from Rio Cuarto

Yesterday (Sunday, May, 30, 2004) the Circulo Ovnil=F3gico
Riocuartense received a phone call from a rural establishment 55
km distant from the town of Suco in southern Rio Cuarto, in
which Mr. Senen Gregorat (the field's owner), explained that in
late March of this year a cattle mutilation case had taken place
on his proeprty. From Gregorat's own infestigations, it turns
out that the alleged mutilation was the work of "pranksters" who
killed the animal by introducing a wet bag into its mouth to
suffocate it in order to simulate mutilations later on. For this
reason, Mr. Gregorat told COR: "We're sick of these fools taking
such an important matter as a joke, especially when it affects
us financially. It's high time someone takes measures against
them."

In a second phone on the same date, at 16:30 hours, Mr. Gregorat
reported that he had just found a two year old "Pampa" breed
cow, weighing some 280 kilograms, dead and mutilated. From
Gregorat's own observations, relayed via cell phone, he said
that the right eye and ear wre missing along with part of the
udder and anus, and that it's "leg hair" appeared to have been
singed by a considerable source of heat. The animal did not
shown any signs of  having died violently. When asked if its
hooves were diry, he replied that they were not and that he
could not tell if it kicked while dying, since any marks on the
ground would have been erased by the trampling of other cattle
in the lot.

In his phone call, the cattleman noted that to judge from what
he could see and understand, the animal would have been "hoisted
and subsequently deposited on the lot's floor without any
violence," since there were no signs of fractures or bruises on
the animal's body, nor traces of soil on its hide."

Gregorat added that a few nights ago (Thursday) while he and
other people were at a highway toll gate in Suco, they witnessed
the rpesence of an obejct in the sky that looked like a very
bright star, but moments later they confirmed the "the supposed
star was moving from West to East until it passed right over
us."

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Mario Luis Bracamonte
Circulo Ovnil=F3gico Riocuartense (COR)









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             Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:55:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 08:08:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:04:14 -0700
>Subject: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>Source: Profindpages.com

>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/29/MN132.htm

>05-29-04

>Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

Hmmm, are there more photos? It seems to me that if an event
such as this lasts for three days, someone somewhere would have
snapped beaucoup pics. And I'm sure there would have to be one
that didn't look like someone painted a black triangle on a sky
scene.


Terry Groff
Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas
from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and
refracted the light from Venus" - Agent "K"








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 22

From: John Hayes <jhayes.nul>
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:32:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 09:39:49 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 22



Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

Please note that due to problems at the company that hosts
the UFOINFO website I am unable to update the site or to
send e-mail from there.

For this reason this weeks issue of UFO Roundup is being
sent from an alternative e-mail address. Hopefully things
will be back to normal soon.

John Hayes
UFOINFO
============================


      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 22
June 2, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-Mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


YELLOW-GREEN UFO CAUGHT
ON VIDEO IN AUXOIS, FRANCE

      "Michel, 'a resident of Auxois, at Sombernon, is
nothing of a visionary.  Nevertheless, he beheld a strange
occurrence in the sky.  Michel is 50 and has nothing to do
with Agent Mulder (lead character on The X-Files--J.T.).
But for the past few days he has been asking questions.
What did he see and film in the skies of the Cote d'Or
Sunday morning," May 9, 2004?
      "'I do not know what it is,' said the head of
household.  'Balls of a yellow-green color, which gathered
after a few minutes into a V formation.  I had never seen
that before.  It is nothing to be understood.'"
      "Hallucination?  Michel has pictures to support his
statements, and he is nothing like the classic smoker of
marijuana.  He also does not look like a data-processing
or video-falsifying genius, either."
      "'It was just after 11 p.m. last Sunday evening (May
9, 2004).  I listened to a noise outside.  I turned my
head towards the window and looked at the stars.  There
was one that seemed odd.  It was very brilliant.  My son
brought the binoculars.  We saw a yellow-green ball which
was not a star.  In the camcorder, we enlarged the
picture,' he said, proud of the film."
      "The 20-minute videotape shows 'a strange ballet in
the sky.  A round and brilliant shape, which seems to turn
on itself (rotate on its own axis--J.T.), and which makes
very fast but jerky movements.  Inside the sphere is a
shape which looks like a drawing of a tennis ball.'"
      "'I cannot invent such a thing,' Michel said, 'Do you
really believe I'd take up such bullshit at my age!?'"
      "Suddenly (onscreen), two other spheres arrive.  The
other ones revolve around the first.  In a flash, all of
the spheres come together in a V shape, with the largest
ball at the front of the formation.  Quickly the generated
shape, visible from Michel's window, vanished as if by
magic."
      "'And then, nothing is visible,' Michel said."  (See
Agence France Presse for May 15, 2004, "Strange sighting
in the skies of Auxois."  Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer
et Jean-Philippe Guillot pour cette article de journal.)


CYLINDER-SHAPED UFO SEEN
IN NELSON, LANCASHIRE, UK

      On Saturday, May 22, 2004, at 3 p.m., Bill and Margo
Wells and their two grandchildren were having a picnic on
the shore of the Walverden Reservoir near Nelson,
Lancashire, UK when they spotted something unusual in the
sky approaching from the west.
      "There were four people seeing this," Bill reported,
"Two adults and two children.  We were having a picnic on
the bank of Walverden Reservoir when our eldest grandchild
said, 'Look at that stick in the sky!'"
      "And this is just what it looked like--a black line
in the sky, like a stick.  It was stationary, not moving
except to turn slightly or go slower.  The 'stick' was a
diagonal line going from left to right.  It was about one
inch (2.5 centimeters) long in the sky.  We continued to
watch it for about 20 to 30 minutes, and then it turned to
the east, or went shorter and vanished."
      The object's "height was deceptive because it was a
lot bigger than a plane would be at the same distance."
(Email Form Report)


DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED IN
BANGOR, PENNSYLVANIA

      On Sunday, May 16, 2004, Rufus Thomas was outdoors in
his hometown of Bangor, Pennsylvania (population 5,319)
when he looked up and "saw a strange object approaching
from the west.  It was gray or white.  At first I thought
it could've been a plane, but I think it was a UFO.  It
looked like a saucer.  It was cool.  I don't know the
height (altitude) and speed, but it was traveling high and
fast.  It took off to the east (into New Jersey--J.T.),
and I lost sight of it after several minutes."
      Bangor, Pa. is on Route 512 about 20 miles (32
kilometers) northeast of Bethlehem and Allentown.  (Email
Form Report)


CROP CIRCLES FOUND AT
ZLOTOWO, POLAND

      On Sunday, May 23, 2004, a new crop circle formation
was discovered, the third in Poland this year.  The
formation "is located on the outskirts of the village of
Zlotowo, which is 23 kilometers (14 miles) north of Zabno,
where the last (second) crop-circle formation appeared."
      "The Zlotowo formation consists of three perfect
circles connecting with pathways.  The formation is now
being investigated by Polish cerealogist Stanislaw  Barski
and Adam Piekut."
      Zlotowo is located 200 kilometers (120 miles)
northwest of Warsaw, the capital of Poland.  (Many thanks
to Polish ufologist Robert K. Lesniakiewicz for this
report.)


CASSINI CROSSES INTO
SATURNIAN SPACE

      "Some call it 'Ringworld,' the most gorgeous object
in the solar system."
      "It's Saturn, the sixth planet from the sun, and it's
about to receive the longest, closest inspection ever to
be made of this giant ball of gas, its glittering rings
and its many moons."
      "On (Tuesday) May 18 (2004), after a voyage of six-
and-a-half years, a $3.2 billion robotic spaceship named
Cassini entered Saturn's zone of influence, past the point
where the pull of the planet's gravity outweighs the
sun's."
      "On (Friday) June 11 (2004), Cassini will swoop past
Phoebe, the most distant of Saturn's 31 known moons."
      "And on (Thursday) July 1 (2004), the spaceship will
slip between two of the icy, outer rings and enter orbit
around the planet, which is 10 times farther from the sun
than Earth is."
      "Laden with 18 scientific instruments, Cassini will
spend the next four years making 76 circuits (orbits) of
Saturn and 45 passes by its largest moon, Titan, dipping
as close as 600 miles (1,000 kilometers) from the moon's
surface."
(Editor's Note: With a diameter of 3,200 miles (5,150
kilometers), Titan is half the size of Earth and a little
bit smaller than Mars.)
      "Titan is larger than the planet Mercury and our own
moon.  It fascinates astronomers because it's the only
moon to have a dense atmosphere, mostly made up of
nitrogen, like Earth's.  Some consider chemical reactions
on Titan to be a possible key to the origin of life on
Earth."
      "As it passes Titan on Christmas Day (December 25,
2004), Cassini will drop off a smaller European scientific
package that's supposed to spend three weeks drifting down
through the (Saturnian) moon's thick orange haze and
parachute to the surface on January 14, 2005."
      "If all goes well this winter, the probe will radio
back its findings, possibly confirming recent evidence
that lakes or seas of liquid hydrocarbons--compounds of
hydrogen and carbonlike gooey gasoline--dot its frigid
surface.  Some scientists think these hydrocarbons,
principally ethane and methane, could support an exotic
form of life on Titan."
      "Astronomers think Titan might also have mountains,
canyons, rivers, wind-blown waves, snowfields and other
Earth-like features hidden under its blanket of haze.  It
might have a deep, subsurface ocean composed of water and
ammonia, which could be a habitat for microorganisms."
      "Although Titan's surface temperature is a bitter 300
degrees below zero, ammonia could keep the water from
freezing solid."
      "Besides Titan, scientists are also eager to learn
more about Saturn, the second-largest planet in the solar
system, outranked only by mighty Jupiter.  Almost 100
times heavier than Earth and nine times fatter, Saturn is
the farthest planet visible to the naked eye."
      "Composed mostly of hydrogen and helium, Saturn was
last visited by the two Voyager (robot) spaceships in 1980
and 1981.  They didn't orbit the planet but simply zipped
by.  Their cameras and scientific tools were much less
sophisticated than Cassini's."
      "Of special interest are Saturn's fabled rings, first
observed by Galileo in 1610.  The rings, labeled A through
G, are thin sheets of icy boulders, pebbles and dust,
stretching 171,000 miles (273,600 kilometers) from one rim
to the other, but only tens of yards (meters) thick."
(See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for May 30, 2004,
"Spaceship to probe Saturn's secrets," page 17A.)


PYRAMID UNEARTHED NEAR
RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL

      "An intriguing archaeological discovery was found in
Rio Bonito," a suburb of Rio de Janeiro, the second-
largest city in Brazil.  Workers digging in a municipal
park unearthed a stone pyramid.
      "They found an enormous rock in the form of a
pyramid, about 15 meters (50 feet) high" at the excavation
site in the Parque Caixa D'Agua in Rio Bonito, according
to Brazilian ufologist Atilio Coelho.  "Beside it was a
perfect sphere made of granite" from the Serra da Orgao
mountain range.  "Archaeologists who examined the curious
monument could not identify it, but it appeared to predate
the founding of the city."
      "It is definitely a pre-Columbian artifact, and it
was already there when Cabral's ship arrived in 1500,"
reported Brunilda Barros, UFO Roundup's correspondent in
Brazil.  "This is truly a mystery because the Tupinamba
Indians who lived along the beaches of Rio in Columbus'
day were hunter-gatherers with no tradition of
stoneworking.  Some theorize that the pyramid was made by
the Phoenicians who visited Brazil in 1,500 B.C.  Yet
others claim that it is a relic of the lost continent of
Atlantis, like the ruins of Sete Cidades."
      According to Coelho, "There do exist deep and
unexplored caverns in Rio Bonito.  Strange accidents have
injured local explorers who set out to visit the caves.
Also, people have become lost in these caves, and their
bodies were never found."
      The Rio Bonito caverns may be linked to las
socabones, a network of ancient underground tunnels that
runs throughout South America.  Brunilda reported, "The
caverns may be part of the socabon that runs from
Queimados (in the state of Rio de Janeiro--J.T.) to the
northeast, behind Petropolis and beneath the Serra da
Orgao to Cordeiro and Cantagalo and on to Sao Jose do
Calcado (in the state of Espirito Santo--J.T.)  Atilio
(Coelho) says there have been many sightings of 'strange
brilliant creatures' at the entrances to these caves,
which sometimes emerge for several moments at night."
(See Exobiologia e CIA for May 24, 2004.  Muito obrigado a
Brunilda Barros e Atilio Coelho por eso informe.)


BRIGHT BLUE UFO SPOTTED
IN RIVERDALE, GEORGIA

      On Sunday, May 30, 2004, at 12:40 a.m., John McCall
was outside at his home in Riverdale, Georgia, near
Atlanta's Hartsfield International Airport, when he saw
something extremely unusual in the sky.
      "I saw a bright blue light descending from the west
to the east at 12:40 a.m.," John reported, "Duration was
approximately one second.  There was no sound.  I have
never seen anything to which I could compare this
sighting."
      "I have lived near Hartsfield Airport in Atlanta for
the last 33 years.  I have never seen anything move this
fast, either on land or in the air.  I would like to know
if there were any similar sightings here in Riverdale."
(Email Form Report)


      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may use items from UFO Roundup
on their Web sites or in news groups provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the
date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 1

             Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:47:23 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 09:42:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:55:29 -0500
>Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:04:14 -0700
>>Subject: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>Source: Profindpages.com

>>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/29/MN132.htm

>>05-29-04

>>Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>Hmmm, are there more photos? It seems to me that if an event
>such as this lasts for three days, someone somewhere would have
>snapped beaucoup pics. And I'm sure there would have to be one
>that didn't look like someone painted a black triangle on a sky
>scene.

>Terry Groff
>Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
>UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

Terry, my impression is that that photo is not an actual photo
of the event mentioned in the message. It seems to me more an
illustration to add some image to the news. It can be anything,
from a kite to simple drawing.


Best wishes,

V-J








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             Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:16:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:28:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:04:14 -0700
>Subject: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!


>Source: Profindpages.com

>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/29/MN132.htm

>05-29-04

>Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>Although Arrowhead UFOs are not the most common of UFO shapes
>sighted, this sighting was even more unusual because of its
>duration. The craft was seen by the entire crew of the SS
>British Grenadier for exactly 3 days!

>The event occurred around April/May 1969 while the SS British
>Grenadier was sailing through the Gulf of Mexico. The UFO
>appeared directly above the ship at exactly noon on the first
>day. It just seemed to appear as nobody saw it arrive and it
>remained above the ship for the next 3 days.

>According to reports the craft was approximately 1 mile above
>the ship and dark blue in colour during the day. At night it
>appeared as a silvery light. The weather conditions were good at
>the time, with a clear sky and calm seas.

>On the first day of its arrival (one minute after midnight), the
>ships engines suddenly stopped and only emergency lighting and
>steering were available. The crew managed to restart the
>engines, which took some time as all the pumps had to be shut
>down and restarted manually.

>The second day saw all the food storage refridgerators closed
>down and no reason for this event could be found.

>On the third day at 11.45 pm one of the crew noticed that the
>lights were out in the ships air conditioning room and a door
>leading to the crews accomodation was opened. The engineer
>passed through the door to investigate and spoke to two firemen.
>But the next day the same door was found welded shut!
>Apparently, the door had been welded before the ship left dock
>(because of a fault), but the door was definitely open for the
>engineer to have walked through it.

>A few minutes after this event the engines stopped again,
>leaving just emergency lighting and steering (again one minute
>after midnight!). They were restarted once more, but later it
>was discovered that the starter motor for the emergency diesel
>generator had been dismantled. All the parts of the generator
>were neatly placed by the machine as if someone had examined it.

>At exactly noon on the third day the craft vanished in the same
>manner as it had appeared.

>Although all these events were recorded in the ships log, this
>is the first time (to our knowledge) that this event has been
>published. We would be interested in hearing from any of the
>crew that were aboard the SS British Grenadier at this time, in
>order to obtain more information about this sighting. If you
>were there and would like to write to us, please send an email
>to: Grenadier.nul

So, we are to believe that all these events were recorded in the
ship's log! If anyone is so sure of that (or even that such a
ship ever existed), why be so vague that we are told, earlier in
this article, "The event occurred around April/May 1969 while
the SS British Grenadier was sailing through the Gulf of
Mexico."

In other words, we are told all those details supposedly
contained in the ship's log, but then the reporter says that it
happened, "around April/May 1969"! If the writer is so sure it's
all in the ship's log, but is so terribly vague about the date,
I suggest we take this one with a healthy grain of salt. To me
this reads to me like the worst type of science fiction.

In fact, with all those details, I'm surprised the author
doesn't tell us that the aliens in the craft directly over the
ship flushed their toilet(s) several times during the three
days. :)

Think about it, this mysterious object hovers squarely over the
ship for three days and as though the UFO's clock were set on
our time, appearing and disappearing precisely at noon (not even
solar noon, mind you, but by our clock), and we are told it was
"one mile" above the ship. Huuummm...One might wonder how they
knew the exact altitude, too. Marine radars usually don't look
straight up. One mile up! I guess the UFO operators were using
the British measure to set the altitude at exactly on mile, too.
Heck, you'd think such smart beings would at least use the
metric system. :)

Notice that there is no mention of the radio communication
system being shut down. Wonder why in three days they would not
have had aircraft from someone's air force investigate.

The 'photo' at the top (if you used the link) has no visible
caption, unless one places the cursor on it and reads,
"Impression of Arrowhead UFO seen in the Gulf of Mexico". You'd
think it would say, "ARTIST'S impression", instead of just,
"impression", lest, with it being a "UFOS and the Paranormal"
webpage, some of their more gullible visitors take it to be a
psychokinetically produced retrocognitive photo of what actually
happened. :) LMAO

Please notice that no reference, no attribution for the story,
whatsoever, is given. "According to reports..." WHERE? WHEN
REPORTED? How late after the alleged event was anything alleging
it reported?

On a scale of 1 to 10, I rate this story 0.

If anyone swallows such a tall tale of the sea with all those
details of what happened but no date from the ship's log (if in
fact the ship ever existed. which I wonder), then I suggest you
never buy any art said to be by a famous artist (but with no
credible provenance provided) on eBay.

IMO, with that story it's getting pretty deep, and I'm not
referring to the depth of the Gulf of Mexico beneath the alleged
ship.

Ray Stanford








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             Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:17:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:41:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:55:29 -0500
>Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:04:14 -0700
>>Subject: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>Source: Profindpages.com

>>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/29/MN132.htm

>>05-29-04

>>Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>Hmmm, are there more photos? It seems to me that if an event
>such as this lasts for three days, someone somewhere would have
>snapped beaucoup pics. And I'm sure there would have to be one
>that didn't look like someone painted a black triangle on a sky
>scene.

>Terry Groff
>Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
>UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/
>>"The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas
>from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and
>refracted the light from Venus" - Agent "K"

...And then illuminated by one of Andy Robert's methane-burning
flying lighthouses! This explains why you couldn't see them
without radar or FLIR!

Alrightrighty, then! I'll be turning in _my_ tinfoil hat and
laser-pointer!

... And Mr. Friedman! I retract any epic poems I may have
written chronicling your exploits, sir! Moreover, I want my
money back for all those books and CDs! <LOL!>



alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net
...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page: http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...








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   Jun > Jun 1

             Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:27:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:45:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:47:23 +0200 (CEST)
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:55:29 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>> >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:04:14 -0700
>>>Subject: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>> >>Source: Profindpages.com

>>>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/29/MN132.htm

>>>05-29-04

>>>Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>Hmmm, are there more photos? It seems to me that if an event
>>such as this lasts for three days, someone somewhere would have
>>snapped beaucoup pics. And I'm sure there would have to be one
>>that didn't look like someone painted a black triangle on a sky
>>scene.

>>Terry Groff
>>Dallas-Ft. Worth MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/
>>UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

>Terry, my impression is that that photo is not an actual photo
>of the event mentioned in the message. It seems to me more an
>illustration to add some image to the news. It can be anything,
>from a kite to simple drawing.

Thanks V-J,

I thought this photo looked a little contrived. I still wonder
why I have seen no photos or video of an event that lasted for 3
days.


Terry






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   Jun > Jun 1

                  Up In The Sky A Bird Or A Flying Saucer?

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 07:27:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:51:42 -0400
Subject: Up In The Sky A Bird Or A Flying Saucer?


Source: KATC TV -  Lafayette Louisiana

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=1907172&nav=EyAzNY3x

06-01-04

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Up in the sky -- a bird? -- or a flying
saucer?

To the naked eye, Tommy Woodard's digital photo appears to be
nothing more than a pretty picture of trees in Provo Canyon,
Utah. But zoom in, he says, and the purple glow of a saucer
hovering at an angle above the tree line starts to take shape.

The photo librarian with the Utah Film Commission says he's a
"believer" in UFOs because as a 10-year-old he saw three blurry
gray spheres rotating in the sky before suddenly disappearing.

A representative of the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle
thought the sphere looked like a bird. Woodard scoffs at that, as
well as the theory that the image could be nothing more than a
speck of dust on his film.

He says none of the 100 photos he shot Tuesday contained a
similar mark. The war of the skeptics and the believers continues.








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   Jun > Jun 1

             Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: Laurent Leger <leger-l.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:59:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:53:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
>Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

<snip>

>To sum up from this and previous posts: Some, but not all, of
>the Mexican radar targets seem to be vehicle traffic on Yucatan
>Highway 186. Some of the FLIR infrared images or "lights" as I
>previously posted, may possibly be sun reflections off of
>distant satellites in Molniya-type orbits (what I call the Group
>2 images), satellites in medium-high polar orbits (Group 3 FLIR
>images though a question might be raised as to feasibility of
>extended duration of reflections from such faster-moving
>satellites), and geostationary satellites (Group 4 images). All
>of these Group 2, 3 and 4 FLIR images are above the earth's
>horizon line according to the FLIR system data,.and in some
>cases the actual horizon line can be seen, according to
>Maccabee. What I call the Group 1 infrared images are the only
>ones in the right direction and occurring below earth horizon as
>to possibly be due to oil fire burnoff of the Cantarell oil
>fields as first suggested by Capt. Franz (but Cantarell cannot
>explain all the other FLIR images as Franz seems to think). Some
>radar and FLIR targets remain anomalous.

Brad and List,

Your hypothesis of fortuitious satellite observations deserves a
careful examination, and I would like to do some comments about
it.

First, I am not sure to what you refer about images groups, I
suppose in the following that you mean the different video
sequences.

You say that group 4 images could be a geostationary satellite.
The only two possibilities to aim at the geostationary orbit (or
around, for out of service satellites) near the horizon like in
the footage, is toward east or west directions. In the segment
between 17:26:30 and 17:28:06, the FLIR camera is effectively
looking close to azimuth 270 deg. (west) where it shows a quite
extended/complex non-saturated source. The problem is that this
direction is also close to the setting sun direction (261 deg.).
It means a low phase angle for an hypothetical satellite. In the
following photometry section, we will see that a satellite
detection by the IR camera needs a specular reflection, yet,
such a low phase angle is very inadequate to give a specular
reflection from a wide surface. I add that the extended source
(2 arcmin) observed at this time could hardly be explained by a
satellite at 39,000 km range, it would need a 24 km size ! For
the other sequences of interest, the camera is looking around
azimuth 300 deg. and later 350 deg. where the geostationary ring
cannot be observed.

You also refer to Molniyas or medium-high altitudes satellites,
the only orbits compatible with a slow angular speed, hence a
lasting observation and an approximately constant direction. In
this case, the azimuth and phase angle restrictions no longer
apply. I did some photometry computations to evaluate if a
satellite can be bright enough to be seen by the camera, at this
wavelenght and the given spectral bandwidth. As we don't have
much details on the sensor detectivity, I had to compare the
satellite brightness to the one of clouds. The first result is
that a purely diffusing sunlit satellite without a specular
reflection is certainly too faint for the given altitudes. Now,
if we consider a surface reflecting the sun, I find that one
square foot at 20,000 km is giving a hundredth of the clouds
illumination on each pixel of the sensor. Not taking into
account the effects of aberrations/diffusion of optics that
worsen the ratio, as the light of the satellite quasi-ponctual
source is spread over many pixels, when there is no such effect
on the clouds because of their extended source nature.

Some images show a brightness of the sources very superior the
clouds' one, that even saturates the optronics (btw, in this
case the circular shape and size is not significant any more).
It seems difficult to me that a space object is able to create
such an effect. Also, you mention it yourself, it is
questionable that a satellite specular reflection lasts a so
long time (the surface orientation must remain within 1/4 of a
degree), and that so many different satellites do the same at
the same time (about ten sources).

I would like to specify that I have no preference for any
explanation of this observation, I am just looking for the good
one(s), as all of you ;-) !


LL








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                  Re: UFO Sighted Over Barcelona - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:15:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:55:49 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Sighted Over Barcelona - Stanford


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 06:38:02 -0400
>Subject: UFO Sighted Over Barcelona

>INEXPLICATA
>The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
>June 1, 2004

>Source: Mundo Misterioso
>Date: 06.01.04

>Spain: UFO Sighting Over Barcelona

>On Sunday, May 9, Ms. N.M. saw an unidentified flying object in
>the skies over Barcelona while in the company of two of her
>children.

>N.M., a criminologist and businesswoman, was driving along the
>Casteldefels to Barcelona highway at around midnight when both
>she and her children witnessed "to the left of the road, that
>is, toward the interior, since the beach is on the left" an
>unidentified flying object of considerable size, described as a
>"rhomboid with one of its vertexes broken off or truncated, or
>rather folded in," having an shiny orange color.

Does anyone out there have access to a drawing the Barcelona
witness might have made of the exact shape?

If, so I really would appreciate seeing it, because the
description (if I'm not misinterpreting it), sounds very much
like (both as to shape and possibly color) things friends and I
saw, three times, in the late 1950s and the early 1960s, once
while north of Corpus Christi, Texas, while out there to observe
a beautiful comet (I forget its name. ), once while driving east
at night, into Corpus Christi on another occasion, and once
while driving north at night, while some miles south of San
Antonio, Texas.

In all three cases, the edges of the geometric shape was
unimaginably, even puzzlingly, clear and sharp! I don't know
about the Barcelona case, but in the Texas events, the thing
just instantly appeared in the night sky and just as instantly
vanished, with no fade out, no sense of it moving into the
distance. In fact, in all three cases, the thing was 'rock
steady' in the sky with seemingly no movement in any direction
and no change in brilliance, throughout. In all events the
whatever-it-was had the puzzling appearance of being only two-
dimensional, like an incredible, glowing paper cut-out in the
sky!

In each of the cases, one of the witnesses, upon the sudden
appearance, shouted approximately, " What the hell is THAT?!!!"
All three 'objects' subtended in the sky an arc at least as
large as that of a full moon (about twenty-eight arc minutes).

The brilliant orange-amber color was about the same in all three
sightings, and is difficult to compare to known light sources,
because I have never seen any other light exactly that same
color, which somehow had what one might call a 'crystalline and
pure' quality to it!

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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             Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 12:53:41 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:58:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 01:07:09 EDT
>Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
>>Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>Mexico: Some Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway 186

>>Radar Analysis Followup - Mexican AF Case March 5, 2004

>>Thanks to a new map plotted by Dr. Bruce Maccabee I can follow
>>up on my suggestion yesterday that some but not all of the radar
>>targets that were tracked may have been trucks or vehicles
>>traveling 60 mph (52 knots) down Yucatan roads.

>No. I can't believe it. I just cracked a joke a few emails ago
>about how one of the new excuses would be car headlights.



Hi Greg,

These possibilities have to be considered however. Airports,
with radar coverage, usually have a program in their computers
[they rarely see primaries anymore-however they can bring them
up] that has the regularly affected areas marked electronically
on their screens. These affected areas are i.e. water towers,
bridges and places where traffic is picked up and displayed on
the screen. in a case a couple of years ago I had to eliminate
the possibility that a slow moving target on radar tape that was
right where a witness said it would be, moving in the same
direction and speed [10 mph] as she said it was, at the
approximate altitude she'd claimed - wasn't a large naval vessel
or container ship under the skies where the witness claimed a
monstrous object was. Coast guard records and their own radar
[sea level to 300 feet] eliminated any of those possibilities
while shoring up the altitude claim of approximately 1,800 feet.

The radar target was covered by an electronically generated
"chickens foot [Y]" on the screen denoting an unknown but
assumed by the radar operators [ROs] to be traffic or boats at
sea-so the RO ignored it.

In the Mexican case the radar return could have been a solid
return from the broadside of the aluminum metal box of a large
truck. The speeds look good, that is assuming the highway at
that point was in condition good enough for the driver to be
traveling at the approx. 60 mph speed. The aircraft was closing
on it.

There's still many things missing. What is the sophistication of
the equipment on the Merlin? Is the GPS slaved into the radar as
well as the FLIR? What about the experience of the RO aboard the
Merlin? Apparently  the Merlin's radar can't digitally record
the radar returns but it's constantly updating the information
[lat. and long, direction and speed] on the FLIR's screen. We
don't know for sure though if that was an object on the highway
or in the air, the radar can't determine that.

It must be remembered why the Mexican AF was in the air in the
first place; drug interdiction and surveillance. I'm sure they
see truck-side returns all of the time, offshore oil rigs and
the blooms from the exhaust stacks, and like their radar
operator counterparts in airport towers and TRACONs are very
familiar with many types of spurious returns. Let's keep that in
mind not treat them like amateurs. Is it the thinking of some
that the Merlin's crew was getting a bit stressed about the
proximity of the unknowns on the FLIR and might have reacted in
confusion to the radar returns?

Don Ledger









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               Re: Revised FLIR Translation With Concise Time

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:56:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 18:01:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Revised FLIR Translation With Concise Time


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 16:46:05 -0400
>Subject: Revised FLIR Translation With Concise Time Codes


>Hello All:

>This is a revised (final) version of the Translation. It
>includes much tighter time coding for any one who may wish to
>follow along with the audio portion of the recording. I also
>made a few corrections. (ie; I changed all of the 'Smile'
>comments throughout the document.)

>Respectfully submitted for your edification.

>Regards to All,

>John Velez
>For Bruce Maccabee on behalf of Jaime Maussan,
>Santiago Yturria and myself.

------


>English Translation Of Audio From The Flir Video Recording
>Aboard A Mexican Air Force Merlin C26A During A UFO Incident

>Date: March 5, 2004
>Location: In air space over the City of Carmen, State of Campeche

For those who have not heard the complete video/audio tape
I should point out that this is not a complete translation.
I estimate that the statements/conversations reported
here consistitute less than 10% of the total verbal information
on the tape. However, what appears below are many of the
most important statements about the radar and flir targets.






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                          Secrecy News -- 06/01/04

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:28:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 18:41:30 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 06/01/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 49
June 1, 2004


**      IAEA REPORT ON LIBYA'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM
**      DSB REPORT ON AERIAL REFUELING
**      TTIC ANSWERS QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
**      WMD INTEL COMMISSION ESTABLISHES WEB SITE


IAEA REPORT ON LIBYA'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) last week
described what it has learned about the conduct of
Libya's aborted nuclear weapons program, as well as what
remains obscure about Libya's activities, in a confidential
report prepared by the IAEA Director General.

IAEA inspectors have been reconstructing Libya's nuclear
program, including its commerce with a "clandestine network"
that supplied centrifuges for uranium enrichment, nuclear
materials and weapons design information.

A copy of the May 28, 2004 IAEA report on "Implementation of
the NPT Safeguards Agreement of the Socialist People's Libyan
Arab Jamahiriya," marked "for official use only," is
available here:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/libya/iaea0504.pdf


DSB REPORT ON AERIAL REFUELING

In a new report, the influential Defense Science Board
considered the controversial question of whether or not to
acquire new tanker aircraft for aerial refueling, and
concluded that the decision should be deferred.

"Embarking on a major recapitalization of the fleet should
await completion of studies that will provide insight into
the future requirements [for tanker aircraft]," according to
the new DSB report.

The issue has been of intense interest to industry because of
the prospect of lucrative contracts associated with the
acquisition of additional tanker aircraft.

See the Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on
Aerial Refueling Requirements, May 2004 (67 pages, 1.1 MB PDF
file), here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsb/aerial.pdf


TTIC ANSWERS QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

The Terrorist Threat Integration Center (TTIC) is an odd
hybrid that, at first glance, appears to replicate the
function of other organizations, such as the DCI
Counterterrorist Center (CTC), without clearly adding value.

In response to probing, occasionally blunt questions from
Congress last year, TTIC officials endeavored to explain
exactly how their intelligence agency is distinct from other
bodies (unlike the CTC it does not have an operational role),
and how it is intended to function.

TTIC's answers to the exhaustive set of questions were
transmitted to Congress in December and were published in a
hearing volume last month.  They are now posted here (51
pages, 1.5 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/ttic/qfr120403.pdf


WMD INTEL COMMISSION ESTABLISHES WEB SITE

The Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United
States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction, established by
President Bush last February in response to criticism over
the failure to find the weapons of mass destruction that were
used to justify the war in Iraq, will meet exclusively in
closed session.

"Due to the sensitive nature of our work, which concerns
highly classified matters of national security, these
meetings are not open to the public," the Commission said in
a May 26 statement.

"We nonetheless intend to keep the public informed of our
work, and as we progress we welcome public input and comment.
Toward this end, the Commission has solicited working papers
from a broad array of independent experts and research
institutions, and will launch a website containing public
information about the Commission by the end of this week."

That website, which so far is largely a placeholder without
significant content, may be found here:

http://www.wmd.gov


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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                  Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:54:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 18:52:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Boone


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 03:27:13 EDT
>Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo


>>http://www.elcajon.cl/ovniaventura/parquef.htm

>Um, the one thing that's scary about this new 'alien' photo is
>that, often, when one appears, I show it to some of the world's
>top graphics artists I know. It usually takes them all of a few
>hours to tear a pic apart and show if it's a fake or not.

>Guess what happened this time?

>Nope.

>Still in the 'huh?' basket.

>So my final battery was to kick it upstairs to the best in
>Hollywood special effects. I'll let you know what they come up
>with. If they haven't solved it by Tuesday at the latest I'ld
>have to give a thumbs up to the photog.

Okay, here it is Tuesday and every special effects expert I know
is too chicken to tackle this photograph. I've never seen these
guys and gals avoid a photo as much as this one. I'm talking
about people who do that 'voodoo' they do so well in major
films, tv, web graphics.

Oh they're making with the jokes and wisecracks far and above
the norm because they can't crack this one.

Bottom line is it's either genuine, a billiant hoax using a
technique these guys aren't familiar with or something simple
they've overlooked.

If it's a hoax I'ld have to lean toward the 'a kid in a suit' or
some statue.

One UFOphile looked at it and it freaked him out. He brought up
something I hadn't taken into account. He says the photo looks
like it had some type of time lapse exposure thingie accounting
for the blurring. I believe the photographer mentioned something
about this. The UFOphile said that might capture something
because his abduction experiences state that these 'beings' use
optical modification to avoid detection. Humans see at a rate of
25 frames per second. I don't know if animals see more or less,
plus other optical perceptions.

Anywho, it's a neat pic that's stumped the pros so far. If it's
a hoax, again a hat's off to the hoaxster.


Best,

Greg









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             Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:05:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 18:54:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
>Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>Some of the FLIR infrared images or "lights" as I
>previously posted, may possibly be sun reflections off of
>distant satellites in Molniya-type orbits (what I call the

>Group 2 images), satellites in medium-high polar orbits
>(Group 3 FLIR images though a question might be raised as
>to feasibility of extended duration of reflections from
>such faster-moving satellites), and geostationary
>satellites (Group 4 images).

Hi Brad and List,

Do reflections from objects generate enough infrared energy
to register on a FLIR camera? I recall that there was a lot
of debate regarding the Waco siege FLIR film with flashes
seen on the film interpreted as gunfire by some and
reflections by others.

Thanks,

Will








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   Jun > Jun 1

                     FSR On CD - More Volumes Available!

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:05:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 18:56:11 -0400
Subject: FSR On CD - More Volumes Available!


For those of you interested, FSR has now released an additional
5 CDs containing all issues up to and including 1972. Some of
you may remember that I reviewed the first CD covering the first
3 volumes (1955-57). My review can still be read at:

http://www.ufology.org.uk/article_read.asp?id=135

It is my view that these CDs represent enormous value to anyone
seriously studying the UFO phenomena, and are very reasonably
priced.


Regards,

Joe McGonagle








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                  Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 15:07:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 19:01:23 -0400
Subject: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night


A new radio show called 'Anomolies' starts on Sunday
night at 11pm to Midnight CDT via the internet.

This Sunday's June 6th guest is crop circle expert Nancy Talbot
who'll talk about this summer's anticipated crop circle
formation season.

KWTO 560AM in Springfield, Missouri broadcasts the show hosted
by Linda Eastburn of MidwestResearchSociety.com with co-host
Ted Phillips of CUFOS and cptr.us fame.

Next Sunday evening go to:

http://www.newstalk560.com/index.cfm?day=5

and click on stream button, then click on 11pm Live Stream
button.

Linda's looking for sponsors too!

Let's get some for her so she can get some more shows!

Brian Adams
UFOMIG.com








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              Re: 3 Needed To Help In 32-Year-Old UFO Mystery -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:22:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 07:50:54 -0400
Subject: Re: 3 Needed To Help In 32-Year-Old UFO Mystery -


>From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 19:26:59 -0700
>Subject: 3 Needed To Help In 32-Year-Old UFO Mystery

>All,

>FYI.

>----- Source: Turks.US

>http://www.turks.us/article.php?story040214135344811

>02-14-04

>A FORMER Territorian is trying to track down three people
>to help him solve a 32-year-old UFO mystery. Rodney Jarvis, 55,
>claims a huge UFO hovered above him for a number of minutes at
>Darwin Airport in 1972.

>Mr Jarvis, a Melbourne company credit manager, is writing a book
>on his life and wants to devote a chapter on the NT incident.
>The former oil rig worker said he was at the airport waiting to
>catch a 6am flight to the Timor Sea when he was confronted by a
>large bright round object.

<snip>

Hello Walt:

I'm not about to try to track down Mr Jarvis from here in
California, but I did take a peek at my database.

I have only one sighting for Northern Territory, Australia, and
sadly its at the opposite (South) end of that huge area.

What makes it interesting is that almost the same exact story is
told! This raises the question of whether somebody learned of
the events due to some account in a Darwin NT newspaper, unaware
of the actual location, rather than some personal experience.

#10204: 1972/08/27 02:00h d=29m 133:09E 24:44S OCN AUS NTR nr
HENBURY,AUST:5/CAR:SCR RESPONDS/LITES:CCLS+LANDS:VANISHES:
/MJ#109 + LDLN#127 /r229 UFO RESEARCH AUSTRALIA NEWSLETTER for
1984, No.1

The 3 references above will obviously have more details.

Henbury is SW of Alice Springs, Closer to the state of South
Australia than anything besides Alice. Darwin is at the opposite
Northern sea coast.

Mr. Jarvis did not provide a date. The date given for Henbury,
NT appears to be pretty good if not exact. Henbury was at 0200
hours (wee hours) while Darwin was 3 hours later (assuming
matching dates), same time zone.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                         Sonora California 04-31-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:55:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 07:53:24 -0400
Subject: Sonora California 04-31-04


HBCC UFO Note: I received some video footage which was taken in
the Sonora, California area. The footage is nothing short of
amazing. I will be posting it to my site as soon as the internet
clip is ready. The video footage will show how dangerous these
unknown objects can be, as the object filmed in the footage I
have is "clearly" maneuvering near a passenger Jet Airliner. No
bird, no balloon as a few out there would have us believing this
object is. This object can dart around the sky at an incredible
rate of speed coming to a dead stop. It makes "U" turns, moves
diagonally. This footage is a must see and will be available as
soon as the internet clip ready. So stayed tuned for an amazing
20 seconds of UFO footage.

Sonora, California

Date: May 31, 2004
Time: 10:08 p.m.

Location of Sighting: Lyons Bald Mountain in Sonora, CA
Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 1
Shape of objects: Triangular with three lights

Full Description of event/sighting: I was sitting outside
listening to my radio with a friend of mine when I noticed a
light over Lyons Bald Mountain in Sonora. It was traveling east
and then turned south. I turned on my video camera and noticed
in the viewfinder that there were now two lights. NO FAA LIGHTS
on this craft. IT WAS HUGE! While we were watching, a plane flew
so close to it, it looked like they were going to collide. My
friend and I saw three white lights in a triangular formation
and watched it fly for about 5 minutes.  But when we reviewed
the recording, we noticed that there were two red lights on the
outside and the middle light was green. I'm still shaking!! This
object appeared to be about 2 or 3 times the size of the
airplane. It flew very slowly southward, video tape to be sent
soon.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul Website:
http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com







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             Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:21:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:00:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>From: Laurent Leger <leger-l.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:59:11 +0200
>Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
>>Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

><snip>

<snip>

>Brad and List,

>Your hypothesis of fortuitious satellite observations deserves a
>careful examination, and I would like to do some comments about
>it.

>First, I am not sure to what you refer about images groups, I
>suppose in the following that you mean the different video
>sequences.

>You say that group 4 images could be a geostationary satellite.
>The only two possibilities to aim at the geostationary orbit (or
>around, for out of service satellites) near the horizon like in
>the footage, is toward east or west directions. In the segment
>between 17:26:30 and 17:28:06, the FLIR camera is effectively
>looking close to azimuth 270 deg. (west) where it shows a quite
>extended/complex non-saturated source. The problem is that this
>direction is also close to the setting sun direction (261 deg.).
>It means a low phase angle for an hypothetical satellite. In the
>following photometry section, we will see that a satellite
>detection by the IR camera needs a specular reflection, yet,
>such a low phase angle is very inadequate to give a specular
>reflection from a wide surface. I add that the extended source
>(2 arcmin) observed at this time could hardly be explained by a
>satellite at 39,000 km range, it would need a 24 km size ! For
>the other sequences of interest, the camera is looking around
>azimuth 300 deg. and later 350 deg. where the geostationary ring
>cannot be observed.

>You also refer to Molniyas or medium-high altitudes satellites,
>the only orbits compatible with a slow angular speed, hence a
>lasting observation and an approximately constant direction. In
>this case, the azimuth and phase angle restrictions no longer
>apply. I did some photometry computations to evaluate if a
>satellite can be bright enough to be seen by the camera, at this
>wavelenght and the given spectral bandwidth. As we don't have
>much details on the sensor detectivity, I had to compare the
>satellite brightness to the one of clouds. The first result is
>that a purely diffusing sunlit satellite without a specular
>reflection is certainly too faint for the given altitudes. Now,
>if we consider a surface reflecting the sun, I find that one
>square foot at 20,000 km is giving a hundredth of the clouds
>illumination on each pixel of the sensor. Not taking into
>account the effects of aberrations/diffusion of optics that
>worsen the ratio, as the light of the satellite quasi-ponctual
>source is spread over many pixels, when there is no such effect
>on the clouds because of their extended source nature.

>Some images show a brightness of the sources very superior the
>clouds' one, that even saturates the optronics (btw, in this
>case the circular shape and size is not significant any more).
>It seems difficult to me that a space object is able to create
>such an effect. Also, you mention it yourself, it is
>questionable that a satellite specular reflection lasts a so
>long time (the surface orientation must remain within 1/4 of a
>degree), and that so many different satellites do the same at
>the same time (about ten sources).

>I would like to specify that I have no preference for any
>explanation of this observation, I am just looking for the good
>one(s), as all of you ;-) !

Sincere thanks, Laurent, for sharing your calculations and very
reasonable conclusions.

Indeed, if the FLIR camera could pick up satellite infrared
reflections so easily as Brad Sparks was postulating, I
seriously doubt the producing company would be able to sell the
instrument for the kinds of applications to which the Mexican
government is applying it.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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                Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:17:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:02:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Lehmberg


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:54:26 EDT
>Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 03:27:13 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

<snip>

>Anywho, it's a neat pic that's stumped the pros so far. If it's
>a hoax, again a hat's off to the hoaxster.


...A polite tip of the hat... then a fine and jail time for
disturbing the peace, perpetrating a fraud, and offending
rational sensibilities. At the conclusion of the sentence
surgical sterilization would preclude them from any more
urinating in our gene pool... <note total absence of smiley face
emoticon> Wolf crying is serious business when there are actual
wolves. It's a little like shouting "FIRE!" is a crowded
theatre...  Be that as it may, hoaxes by their nature can
provide _little_ service.  If it's a hoax (?), a pox on 'im!

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the scabrously specious scurrilous.





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                  The Black Vault Has Record-Crushing Month

From: John Greenewald, Jr. <tbvfuture.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:11:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:05:57 -0400
Subject: The Black Vault Has Record-Crushing Month


The Black Vault has Record-Crushing Month of May

NORTHRIDGE (BlackVault) - June 1, 2004 - The Black Vault today
announced another record breaking month of May. The server loads
in April set a 5 year record of 14.5 million hits, but web
surfers yet again said "The Black Vault is worth visiting!" And
with that, a record 18.9 million hits bombarded The Black
Vault�s servers, and set May as the number one month in The
Black Vault�s history.

Interesting to point out, however, the 'unique visitor' count to
The Black Vault (the amount of individual people to visit the
site) was roughly doubled from April to May. From about 63,000
unique visitors in April, the record was crushed again in May to
a record breaking month of 125,053 visitors that perused the
site, and downloaded over 120 gigabytes of data.

What can account for such an increase? "A massive interested in
government secrecy, and a thirst for the truth," says 23 year
old webmaster John Greenewald, Jr. "These past couple of
months, I have worked full steam in updating The Black Vault�s
core engine, while in the same time updating content and filing
more requests."

In fact, The Black Vault has grown exponentially in the past two
months, with the amount of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
requests sent to the U.S. Government. Greenewald stated, "In the
months of April and May, I have sent over 150 FOIA requests to
every corner of the Government, in addition to the hundred or so
I still have open from requests sent in the past."

The archive continues to grow daily, and has now over 117,000
pages of government documents to read. Greenewald shows no sign
of slowing down either, and asking about the future, he went on
to say, "There is much to come! In the coming weeks, a
collection of CIA documents on the subject of mind control will
be added, and will contribute another 18,000+ pages of material
to the archive. I am really excited about this addition, as it
will be the largest amount of mind control material archived
anywhere in the world free to download."

It is without say that The Black Vault will continue to grow,
and house some of the most sought after information on the
internet. Records are now being broken every month, and the
percentage increase in traffic from March to the end of May was
a 62% increase in hits, and a 99% increase in the number of
unique visitors from the month of April to May.

Astounding statistics to say the least, and The Black Vault
hopes its loyal visitors continue to spread the word about this
invaluable resource located at blackvault.com!

###
John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Headquarters
18127 Parthenia St. #105
Northridge, Ca. 91325
John.nul
Media Enquiries Only by phone: (818) 360-1160







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                 Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 21:15:01 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:08:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Ledger


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:54:26 EDT
>Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 03:27:13 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

>>>http://www.elcajon.cl/ovniaventura/parquef.htm

>>Um, the one thing that's scary about this new 'alien' photo is
>>that, often, when one appears, I show it to some of the world's
>>top graphics artists I know. It usually takes them all of a few
>>hours to tear a pic apart and show if it's a fake or not.

>Humans see at a rate of 25 frames per second. I don't know if
>animals see more or less, plus other optical perceptions.


Hi Greg,

We can see at one frame per second [or a lot less] if it comes
to that. I think what you are referring to is the rate we see
images until they graduate from stills to continuous motion
[movies]. That begin at about 13-14 frames per second-depending
on the person. The silent films were shot at 16 frames per
second [early models were hand cranked], however when sound came
in they boosted that to 24 fps to avoid shakey sound tracks due
to the lack of stabilized electric motors in the early 30s.


Best,

Don Ledger








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                Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:39:06 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:09:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Balaskas


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:54:26 EDT
>Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo

<snip>

>Okay, here it is Tuesday and every special effects expert I know
>is too chicken to tackle this photograph. I've never seen these
>guys and gals avoid a photo as much as this one. I'm talking
>about people who do that 'voodoo' they do so well in major
>films, tv, web graphics.

>Oh they're making with the jokes and wisecracks far and above
>the norm because they can't crack this one.

>Bottom line is it's either genuine, a billiant hoax using a
>technique these guys aren't familiar with or something simple
>they've overlooked.

<snip>

Hi Greg!

Although they are not special effects experts, I asked a few
people here to have a look at this picture and to tell me what
they saw.

One of my friends who knows of my interest in UFOs and ETs
pointed out an Alien with an almond shaped head, with dark eyes,
white eyebrows and a tiny nose hiding in the tree branches
directly above the middle mounted policeman. Only the Alien's
head and upper torso are visible behind a clump of tree leaves.

Another friend who collects owls figurines (her office is full
of these) had no problem pointing out the owl in the tree. You
can easily find this owl with two dark large eyes and light
centers - its the "bump" on one of the tree branches to the
lower right of the previously mentioned Alien (above and between
the two mounted policemen on the rightside of the photo).

The night-shift caretaker did spot the small walking biped
expect that he thought it was an upright supported bag for
garbage or leaf collection and not the biped everyone else seems
to see. As proof he pointed out to a broom or rake left leaning
against the lamp-post immediately to the left of this bag.

As for what I think, I just see a very blurry picture. It is
important to note the amount and the direction of blurring (from
lower right to upper left). If we were to apply the width of the
blurring that is clearly evident in the otherwise perfectly
round lamp-post lights to the suspected biped, then this
anorexic fellow would have to be as thin as a cardboard sheet!

If this is in fact the case, maybe this small walking biped is
nothing more than a 'Do Not Walk On The Grass' park sign - just
like another one leaning against the lamp-post to its left
which, interestingly, has the same thickness as the biped's
"legs", one of which is even tilted in the same parallel
direction.

As for the forward pointing arm. This to me is clearly just
fallen leaves in the background. Not only is this arm not the
same colour as the rest of the body of the small walking biped
but it matches the colour of the leaves - which are blurred in
the same l-r u-l direction to produce what only seems like a
forward pointing arm!

In short, I have no reason to suspect the Parque Forestal
picture is a hoax, just an honest misinterpretation into
something we know and think about - aliens.

I would like to challenge everyone to go through their family
photo albums and carefully examining them, especially those very
blurry pictures, for additional proof that aliens are here! ;o)

Would it be too much to ask the photographer to share with us
any other pictures he may have taken that same day in the park
or possibly go back and take some more pictures of the same
scene under similar lighting conditions? Not only would my
friends be interested to know if their interpretations are
correct but in a clearer picture we may even spot the parked UFO
this biped alien was headed towards (just what was that red
light in the dark woods to the right of the picture?).


Nick Balaskas







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   Jun > Jun 2

                   Re: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 22:24:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:15:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed - McCoy


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 14:54:40 +1000
>Subject: Mexican UFO Aircraft Speed

Hello, all.

Barry, I don't know why this is still being discussed, but here
goes my own take on this


>Hi List members,

>Information obtained when questioned on relative airspeed of the
>aircraft that videoed the Mexican UFOs.

>This is how a pilot in charge of our local airport explained it
>to me.....

>1. If an aircraft is flying at 200mph in a 200mph tail wind, the
>air speed of the aircraft registers as 200mph. But the air speed
>relative to a ground based observer would be that the aircraft
>is flying at 400mph.

Yep, he's right, Pard.

I used to be a flight instructor, some 4000 hours of that.

>2. If an aircraft is flying into a 200mph headwind, the aircraft
>airspeed is still 200mph, but to the ground based observer, the
>aircraft would appear to be stationery.

Right again.

I was passed many times by I-84 traffic in the Columbia Gorge in
this little Aeronca Champ,65 snarling horses, and one 12 gallon
gas tank, with wire float indicator,that occasionally started-
not- to float.

>The Mexican air crew reporting their air speed was the actual
>air speed of the aircraft, unrelated to the outside speed of the
>wind.

Well yes, but if they had GPS, Loran,DME, _and_ RADAR. They and
ATC would have an idea of the speed of the Bogeys.

>This means that no matter how fast the air currents were
>blowing, and in which direction, the air speed of the aircraft
>would still be reported as 200mph. Only a ground observer would
>notice any difference in the speed of the aircraft in the above
>conditions.

One thing: If the jet was that low, there would be hurricane
force winds at the Ground level due to the mechanics of the
Atmosphere. No such winds have been observed.

>If the objects were moving with a 200mph wind, and the aircraft
>was flying at 200mph, than the objects may appear to be moving
>faster than the aircraft to the pilots observing, depending on
>the wind direction relative to the flight direction of the
>aircraft.

>Relativity comes into play when the crew "assuming" they are
>flying at 200mph relative to the speed of the objects.

>To a ground based observer, they may measure the real time speed
>of the objects and aircraft totally different to what the air
>speed of the crews aircraft registers their speed.

Again, if the Jetstream was that low there would be  _severe_
weather. Period. I live on the South coast of Oregon, where such
events are not that uncommon. One in Feb. 2002, to be exact.

I have training over and above a Commerical Pilot's certificate,
I have Trained and worked with NOAA, the Army Corps of
Engineeers, DOE, FAA,.mostly on Weather related subjects.

I have worked with balloons, participated in a hot air balloon
experiment granted, high school, but still a hot air bag with
candles.

>Therefore, the speed of the objects calculated by the air crew,
>would be different to ground radar calculations of their speed.

But, the maneuverability of said objects makes this  ah,
impossible.


GT McCoy







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             Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 01:28:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:19:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:04:14 -0700
>Subject: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>Source: Profindpages.com

>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/29/MN132.htm

>05-29-04

>Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>Although Arrowhead UFOs are not the most common of UFO shapes
>sighted, this sighting was even more unusual because of its
>duration. The craft was seen by the entire crew of the SS
>British Grenadier for exactly 3 days!

>The event occurred around April/May 1969 while the SS British
>Grenadier was sailing through the Gulf of Mexico. The UFO
>appeared directly above the ship at exactly noon on the first
>day. It just seemed to appear as nobody saw it arrive and it
>remained above the ship for the next 3 days.

- - - - [snip]

Hello Frank:

At least they gave an approximate date. This is the first I
heard of the story, and there is only one copycat version I
could Google up.

Searching for SS Grenadier shows a 3rd website, one about a
memorial to Australian merchant seamen lost during the two world
wars. At least one of those died aboard the SS British
Grenadier. Not much else shows for SS B.G. ..

But leaving off the 'SS', I find that the ship, some kind of
tanker I take it, was sunk by a German U-boat in 1941 or 42.

Maybe there was another ship by the same name.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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               Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -

From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 05:24:33 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:22:34 -0400
Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:20:58 EDT
>Subject: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?


>I figure most of the veteran researchers on this List have met
>witnesses or whistleblowers or other researchers who suddenly
>'fell off the face of the Earth' or 'Shut up tighter than a
>clam'.

>I'ld reckon most of you have also run into those folks who try
>those intimidation tactics.

>Reason I'm bringing this up is because there've been several top
>UFO stories of late. Considering the atmosphere regarding
>freedom of speech and expression under the current
>administration I'm one for covering all bases just in case.

>So the scenario is:

>If suddenly there was an overt crackdown on UFO research,
>witnesses, reports, broadcasters etc. what would you do? Do you
>have your files backed up? Do you have a proxy to carry on
>should you be silenced or unable to access the proper
>communications equipment? Is there a plan for cascading backups
>to Ham radio/shorwave etc.?

>It's better than even money something more is going to break
>soon. I, for one, need just two people to contact me regarding a
>UFO report and if they 'can' I'll have something to put on the
>table. Yet it's getting more and more likely that only one will
>speak up. The other one suddenly has cold feet after an unusual
>appearance in his newsroom.

>Something weird is going on and I think it's because some things
>have popped up that can't be easily explained, debunked or even
>solved.

>I've got a couple more news contacts to handle. If these people
>suddenly clam up I would definitely have to stand on a soapbox
>and exclaim that the news bureaus are gone. Kaput. Relegated to
>the 'Piece of Shame' (ask some Greek Americans about the 'piece
>of shame').


Relax. People do not turn up dead under this administration.

The government is not going to tell us anything. President
Reagan gave us hints, but no administration has ever helped to
reveal paranormal information. There are too many brilliant
people investigating and the government will not be able to
withhold information forever.

As for the media, they have a very strange agenda. However,
their agenda is left of center and obviously not controlled by
the current administration. With years of successful paranormal
shows and movies, one would think that the media would be much
more likely to report all strange phenomena.

Regarding witnesses, whistleblowers and researchers who
disappear or stop talking, I would highly suggest that it is
time to make a database of these people. At the very least, post
information including names and circumstances to this List. It
will be saved in the archives and thousands of us who read this
List will know. It is not possible to silence all of us.


Regards,

Robert Grass






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             Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 06:00:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:25:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>From: Laurent Leger <leger-l.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:59:11 +0200
>Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
>>Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

<snip>

>>To sum up from this and previous posts: Some, but not all, of
>>the Mexican radar targets seem to be vehicle traffic on Yucatan
>>Highway 186. Some of the FLIR infrared images or "lights" as I
>>previously posted, may possibly be sun reflections off of
>>distant satellites in Molniya-type orbits (what I call the Group
>>2 images), satellites in medium-high polar orbits (Group 3 FLIR
>>images though a question might be raised as to feasibility of
>>extended duration of reflections from such faster-moving
>>satellites), and geostationary satellites (Group 4 images). All
>>of these Group 2, 3 and 4 FLIR images are above the earth's
>>horizon line according to the FLIR system data,.and in some
>>cases the actual horizon line can be seen, according to
>>Maccabee. What I call the Group 1 infrared images are the only
>>ones in the right direction and occurring below earth horizon as
>>to possibly be due to oil fire burnoff of the Cantarell oil
>>fields as first suggested by Capt. Franz (but Cantarell cannot
>>explain all the other FLIR images as Franz seems to think). Some
>>radar and FLIR targets remain anomalous.

>Brad and List,

>Your hypothesis of fortuitious satellite observations deserves a
>careful examination, and I would like to do some comments about
>it.

>First, I am not sure to what you refer about images groups, I
>suppose in the following that you mean the different video
>sequences.

Thanks. I had thought my earlier posting had been posted but it
hasn't. Most of the FLIR infrared targets are close to the
earth's horizon, mostly above the earth's horizon within just a
few degrees. The FLIR "lights" do not seem to display UFO-like
unconventional performance such as high speeds, tight turns,
etc., and no real shape can be reliably discerned in the FLIR.
The FLIR system has so much automatic gain control that infrared
brightnesses are not at all certain, but Dr. Bruce Maccabee is
checking into it. The radar trackings seem to have no
relationship to the FLIR infrared, except possibly for one
interval early in the incident which Bruce is checking on.

Most of the Mexican infrared "lights" above the earth's horizon
last no longer than about 30 seconds for any one light, except
possibly for a "pacing" sequence beginning at 1655. Bruce
believes one light passes in front of a cloud at 1659:50, which
if true and not an illusion

Here is how I categorize the Mexican FLIR targets by direction
(azimuth True North not the Relative Azimuths shown on FLIR
display), time and elevation above or below the earth's horizon.
They seem to neatly divide up into 4 groups:

Mexican FLIR Groups of Single or Multiple "Lights" (IR Sources)

1. NW (295 to 305 degs True) 1645-1649, 1651, BELOW EARTH HORIZON
2. NW (310 degs) 1652 to 1709, ABOVE EARTH HORIZON
3. N (350 to 335 degs) 1714 to 1718, ABOVE EARTH HORIZON
4. W (270 to 265 degs) 1722:59 to 1723:42, 1726 to 1728, ABOVE
  EARTH HORIZON



>You say that group 4 images could be a geostationary satellite.
>The only two possibilities to aim at the geostationary orbit (or
>around, for out of service satellites) near the horizon like in
>the footage, is toward east or west directions. In the segment
>between 17:26:30 and 17:28:06, the FLIR camera is effectively
>looking close to azimuth 270 deg. (west) where it shows a quite
>extended/complex non-saturated source. The problem is that this
>direction is also close to the setting sun direction (261 deg.).
>It means a low phase angle for an hypothetical satellite. In the
>following photometry section, we will see that a satellite
>detection by the IR camera needs a specular reflection, yet,
>such a low phase angle is very inadequate to give a specular
>reflection from a wide surface.

To the contrary a very low phase angle can create total internal
reflection effects by refraction even off of non-mirrored
surfaces, somewhat like seeing the surface of a hot road asphalt
road on a summer day at a shallow grazing angle looking like a
highly reflective mirror of the sky above.


>I add that the extended source
>(2 arcmin) observed at this time could hardly be explained by a
>satellite at 39,000 km range, it would need a 24 km size ! For
>the other sequences of interest, the camera is looking around
>azimuth 300 deg. and later 350 deg. where the geostationary ring
>cannot be observed.

The angular sizes of the Mexican FLIR images are very difficult
to determine because of blooming or halation of bright energy
sources and because automatic gain controls alter these
brightnesses, making it even more difficult to reconstruct the
power output behind each IR source. Bruce is working with the
FLIR engineers to see if some kind of IR power estimate can be
made.


>You also refer to Molniyas or medium-high altitudes satellites,
>the only orbits compatible with a slow angular speed, hence a
>lasting observation and an approximately constant direction. In
>this case, the azimuth and phase angle restrictions no longer
>apply. I did some photometry computations to evaluate if a
>satellite can be bright enough to be seen by the camera, at this
>wavelenght and the given spectral bandwidth. As we don't have
>much details on the sensor detectivity, I had to compare the
>satellite brightness to the one of clouds. The first result is
>that a purely diffusing sunlit satellite without a specular
>reflection is certainly too faint for the given altitudes. Now,
>if we consider a surface reflecting the sun, I find that one
>square foot at 20,000 km is giving a hundredth of the clouds
>illumination on each pixel of the sensor. Not taking into
>account the effects of aberrations/diffusion of optics that
>worsen the ratio, as the light of the satellite quasi-ponctual
>source is spread over many pixels, when there is no such effect
>on the clouds because of their extended source nature.

Because of the FLIR's automatic gain controls I'm not sure what
effects these might have on comparative IR luminance
calculations or IR power outputs.

Distances can cover a wide range as Molniyas come in differing
orbital types (including the GLONASS Russian GPS satellites in
11-hour orbits instead of 12-hour Molniyas) and still move
relatively slowly at much closer distances. There are
satellites in odd orbits because of failed upper stage boosters.

Many military satellites in high orbits are highly classified
whose existence is not officially admitted and whose orbital
elements are classified. Amateur observer groups have tracked
some of them but not all of them. Some such satellites have
huge solar panel arrays.

It would be better to not have to speculate and theorize.
 Surely there must be amateur satellite watchers with databases
of such satellites they have observed and tracked, and who have
software that can plot what was within field of view from the
Yucatan on March 5, 2004.

>Some images show a brightness of the sources very superior the
>clouds' one, that even saturates the optronics (btw, in this
>case the circular shape and size is not significant any more).
>It seems difficult to me that a space object is able to create
>such an effect.

Also, you mention it yourself, it is
>questionable that a satellite specular reflection lasts a so
>long time (the surface orientation must remain within 1/4 of a
>degree), and that so many different satellites do the same at
>the same time (about ten sources).

I only questioned the duration for my medium-height polar
orbiting satellites. As for numbers there are a great many
satellites in high earth orbits. There are more than 500+
Molniya-type satellites in orbit and more than 600
geosynchronous satellites. One might easily expect dozens
within a small field of view at any given time if you look in
the right directions.

Solar reflections are over 1 degree wide so satellite
orientations must be kept within about 0.5-degree. A typical
geostationary satellite is in reality usually in a 10-degree
inclination orbit rather than straight over the equator. So
that's very crudely 10 degs in 6 hours or about 600 mph more or
less in a N-S direction at geosynchronous altitudes, or about
0.5 degree in 20 minutes (but actually at the top of the orbital
ascending node at the northernmost point this N-S motion reaches
zero so maintaining 0.5-deg directionality might last a lot
longer than the 20 minutes).

>I would like to specify that I have no preference for any
>explanation of this observation, I am just looking for the good
>one(s), as all of you ;-) !

Same here.

I should point out that the first rule in UFO investigation is
to perform a Hynek Screening to eliminate the IFO possibilities
first, by scientifically competent (not lackadaisical) means.
This has not been done yet.


Brad Sparks







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                Portage County 1966 - Strangers In The Night

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:46:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:46:42 -0400
Subject: Portage County 1966 - Strangers In The Night




Source: Cleveland Scene

http://clevescene.com/issues/2004-03-31/feature.html/1/index.html

03-31-04

[with pictures]

Strangers In The Night

In 1966, Ohio cops chased a UFO into Pennsylvania. Then the
government got involved, and things got really weird.

By James Renner
feedback.nul


April 17, 1966, 5 a.m.: Chief Gerald Buchert is on patrol in
Mantua, when the Portage County Sheriff's Department sends word
over the radio for its deputies to look for lights in the sky,
last seen headed east.

Buchert races home to wake his wife and grab his camera. Joan
Buchert is still groggy as Gerald leads her from the house,
babbling excitedly but making little sense. She becomes annoyed
with his refusal to explain why she must venture outside in her
bathrobe before sunrise.

She stops complaining abruptly as he points into the dark,
cloudless sky. An object resembling two tea saucers joined
together hovers not far from their yard. Light emanates from it,
but it makes no sound. Then it moves slowly and deliberately to
the east, tilting and tipping along the way. Gerald snaps a
photo before the object moves out of sight.

At about the same time near Ravenna, Portage County deputies
Dale Spaur and Wilbur "Barney" Neff are investigating a car
abandoned at the side of a rural road. The vehicle appears to be
filled with radio equipment. Painted on the side is a triangle
with a lightning bolt through it and the words "Seven Steps to
Hell."

From behind, they hear a strange electrical humming sound. They
turn and watch in amazement as a saucer-shaped craft -- perhaps
50 feet long and 20-some feet high -- rises slowly from behind
the trees and hovers in the air. A bright light shines from the
bottom, bathing the ground. Squinting, the officers make out
what appears to be a dome on top and a protrusion like a thick
antenna.

Spaur remembers his radio and reports what he's seeing. After a
confused exchange, the dispatcher advises the officers to shoot
it down, so they'll be able to prove their story. Spaur draws
his gun hesitantly and aims it at the craft.

At the Ravenna police station, Sergeant Henry Shoenfelt suddenly
wonders whether Spaur and Neff have spotted a government weather
balloon. He gets on the radio himself and reverses the order to
fire. Wait there, he says, until someone can be sent with a
camera.

But then the craft suddenly starts hauling ass to the east.
Spaur and Neff scramble back to their car and give chase.

Half an hour later, Spaur and Neff are miles out of their
jurisdiction, racing down dark, rural roads at speeds exceeding
100 miles per hour. Near the Pennsylvania border, Officer Wayne
Huston of the East Palestine PD joins the chase, which continues
over the state line. Even as the impending dawn pales the sky,
the lights of the strange craft remain distinct.

Back in Ravenna, the dispatcher calls an air-traffic control
tower in Pittsburgh. While they are on the phone, Spaur radios
in to say there are already fighter jets in the sky, flying
toward the craft. Another Portage County deputy also sees three
jets moving to intercept.

At about 6:15 a.m., Spaur and Neff's car sputters -- it's
running on fumes. They pull into a Conway, Pennsylvania service
station, where Officer Frank Panzanella stands drinking coffee,
watching the object sail by.

Moments later, Spaur, Neff, Huston, and Panzanella listen as
their radios pick up chatter between pilots who are chasing the
craft. As they catch sight of it below them, the saucer
accelerates rapidly, heading straight up this time, and
disappears.

When residents of Mantua, a small community in Portage County,
called the police during the 1960s, the phone rang in Gerald
Buchert's house.

"As kids, we weren't supposed to touch that phone," says his
son, Harry Buchert. "For a while, it was a one-man police
department. So he was it, 24 hours a day. My dad was very
dedicated to the police department. It's probably what caused
his death." Gerald Buchert was still chief of police when he
suffered a brain aneurysm in 1986.

In life, the chief was known for his stubbornness. "If he
thought something was right, he wouldn't back down," recalls
Joan, his wife. But he'd be forced to make an exception --
 publicly, at least -- amid the furor touched off by his close
encounter.

The next morning, The Plain Dealer and three other papers
carried stories about the high-speed, two-state chase. The PD
quoted Buchert as saying the object was "round when I looked
straight up at it, but when it moved to the left -- I feel like
an idiot saying this -- it looked like a saucer, like two table
saucers put together."

The attention from the local media was only the beginning. Tiny
Mantua and other parts of Portage County were soon overrun with
reporters from all over. The UFO phenomenon was already decades
old in 1966, but this sighting was one of the most dramatic --
 and seemingly credible, coming from police officers -- ever
reported.

"It was like we set off a bomb in this town." recalls Joan
Buchert. "My husband lost 20 pounds in three days."

Harry remembers the endless phone calls and knocks on the door.
"It was three days of living hell."

Buchert wasted no time in getting his film developed. He was
known for working by a simple code -- "Cover your ass" -- and
that's what the photo would do. Or so he thought.

When he was finally satisfied that he'd captured an image of the
craft, he called the Cleveland office of the FBI. An agent
referred him to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, near Dayton.
Buchert relayed what he'd seen and was told that someone would
be in touch.

Major Hector Quintanilla called the next morning. In addition to
the incident, they discussed the photograph. The major told
Buchert he could release a grainy copy of the photo to the
press, but that he should send the negatives directly to him.
The chief readily agreed.

Only later did this seemingly routine request begin to look like
a setup. As it turned out, photographic evidence and vivid
eyewitness accounts would mean little to the Air Force. From his
office at Wright-Patterson, Quintanilla released a statement:
Buchert's film was "severely fogged," he wrote, and the fuzzy
image on it was nothing more exciting than a processing defect.

Furthermore, he said, his experts concluded that the officers
had chased a stationary object -- the planet Venus, warped by
atmospheric conditions. Nothing unusual appeared on radar, he
said, and no fighter jets were sent up.

The press abruptly backed off, but the cops were incensed. They
were hardworking men, devoted to their jobs and respected in
their towns, and the United States government had just told the
world that they were stupid enough to have chased a planet from
Ravenna to the outskirts of Pittsburgh.

Buchert later documented his frustration: "I was advised . . .
that what I saw was PROBABLY only the planit [sic] Venus as it
was in that general area," he wrote on April 22, 1966. "I asked
the Major [Quintanilla] if it was the planit [sic] Venus then
how come it moved up and down and to the side. I at one time
kept the wires from the telephone pole in view and the object
DID go below the wires and then above them. The wires were NOT
moving. I was advised by the Major that this was due to the
atmospheric conditions most likely."

And who could refute that? Quintanilla had an authority on such
mistaken-identity cases, civilian astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
working for him. But it would later become clear that Hynek had
been out of the loop on this one.

Even after the reporters had left Mantua and the excitement had
died down, Buchert felt as if everyone in town was looking at
him funny. He almost resigned. Over time he learned to live with
the notoriety, but he never forgot. In a scrapbook, he kept
every report, every newspaper article, every scrap of
information pertaining to the day that he couldn't bring himself
to discuss.

Harry has that scrapbook now. He keeps it in his office at the
Mantua police station, where he has served as chief since his
father's death. For years, he has wanted nothing more than to
find some way to clear his father's name. This would be no small
feat, given the time that's gone by and the "official
conclusion" of the Air Force. But Harry has some unlikely
allies: the sons of the government officials.

Karl Quintanilla's earliest memories are of his father, Hector,
getting ready for work. Donning his Air Force uniform. Sliding a
firearm into his shoulder holster. Handcuffing a briefcase to
his wrist.

In the early 1960s, Hector Quintanilla had been a security
officer for the Air Force out of Rome, New York. But after
declining assignments related to the escalating conflict in
Vietnam -- Hector worried about leaving his family and perhaps
not returning -- he wound up in Ohio, chasing flying saucers.

Apparently as punishment for defying his superiors, Hector
Quintanilla was assigned to Project Blue Book, the Air Force's
investigation into unidentified flying objects, conducted at
Wright-Patterson from 1952 to 1969. According to the Blue Book
manual, the project had two missions: "First, to determine
whether UFO's pose a threat to the security of the United
States; and, second, to determine whether UFO's exhibit any
unique scientific information or advanced technology which could
contribute to scientific or technical research."

Quintanilla was a skeptic. Though willing to accept the
possibility of other civilizations, he believed that the
distances between our world and others were far too great to
traverse. Whether his superiors knew this or cared isn't clear,
but skepticism was definitely an asset. The Air Force wanted
rational explanations for the thousands of UFO sightings that
were being reported each year, and Quintanilla was prepared to
provide them.

Unfortunately, investigating possible alien encounters was not a
9-to-5 job.

"He got called. Often enough, it was in the middle of the
night," Karl recalls. "He was always grumbling, moaning about
it." Sometimes he would go himself. "And sometimes he would send
Hynek."

Dr. J. Allen Hynek had been a professor of astronomy at Ohio
State and Ohio Wesleyan in 1948 when witnesses in western
Kentucky, including the commander of Godman Air Force Base,
reported seeing a craft that look like "an ice cream cone topped
with red." Air Force officials theorized that what they had
really seen was the planet Venus, low on the horizon, through
fog. What they lacked was a respected civilian who could back up
these claims for a fearful public.

"So they called the closest astronomer," says Paul Hynek, the
doctor's son. "They needed a person in the field to say it was
bunk." This suited Dr. Hynek just fine; he relished the
challenge of overcoming panic with science. And he was still
consulting on UFO cases when Quintanilla was assigned to Blue
Book.

"Our house had all these relics," recalls Paul Hynek. "My
bedroom, much to my chagrin, was the biggest UFO library in the
country. We were a normal suburban family. But there were all
these incongruous things, though. We had a Christmas tree, but
most of the bulbs were UFOs."

"People used to ask Dad if he believed in UFOs," says Scott
Hynek, Paul's younger brother. "He challenged the word
'believe.' 'I haven't seen a whale,' he would say. 'But you
wouldn't ask me if I believe in whales. There are enough reports
of them to believe they exist.' Then eventually he saw a whale
and couldn't say that anymore."

There were also the phone calls. Answering them became a
favorite pastime for the Hynek kids. Sometimes it was a guy
calling himself Prince Michael of the Perseids. Another would
warn that star movements were indicating that their father's
life was in danger.

"The phone would frequently ring at dinner," says Scott Hynek.
"He would always take the call. A certain amount of these people
were crazy, some weren't. It was hard to tell the difference.
But if you're in your car and it suddenly stops and you see
something in the sky, you're going to seem strange even to
people who know you. He gave people a chance to tell their
stories."

Over the years, Dr. Hynek was able to explain away nearly every
reported sighting. Hector Quintanilla was haunted, however, by
the unexplained 2 or 3 percent. Hynek empathized, but the
unresolved cases were a source of tension.

"Dad sort of felt [Blue Book] was a dead-end job for Air Force
personnel," says Scott Hynek. "It was their job to make us feel
safe about what was going on in the sky. But sometimes they
wanted to fit a square peg into a round hole."

Karl Quintanilla recalls meeting Dr. Hynek once, when his father
brought the scientist home for dinner. Even then, he knew that
the men were at odds. "My father felt Hynek was exploiting the
subject for his own notoriety. In other words, when Dr. Hynek
would go to press conferences, it wasn't with the exact line [my
father] wanted."

Hector Quintanilla worried that someday there would be a
dramatic, credible sighting that Hynek would not be able to
dismiss as Venus or an airplane. Such a scenario could ruin his
career. Obviously, the UFO phenomenon was just a case of
overactive imaginations. But that 2 percent -- what of those?
Why couldn't the astronomer just do his job?

Quintanilla's concern over Hynek's methods may have been why he
didn't consult the scientist on the Ravenna case.

William Powers, Dr. Hynek's assistant at the time, blew
Quintanilla's cover. In a letter to Spaur and Neff, Powers
wrote: "I found out considerably more about this event than the
Air Force investigator did, because I cannot agree with the
evaluation publicly released a few days after the sighting. What
you have reported to me could not possibly lead to such a
conclusion [the Venus explanation]. As a matter of fact, Dr.
Hynek agrees with this. He was not consulted before this news
release was put forth."

When Quintanilla found out about the letter, he realized that if
the situation were going to remain contained, he could no longer
avoid visiting Mantua. The Buchert home was his first stop.

Joan Buchert recalls the well-dressed man from the Air Force as
friendly. "We sat and had coffee," she says. "They discussed the
picture. They discussed the priest."

"The priest" was the head of St. Joseph's Church in Mantua. The
Bucherts cannot remember his name, only that he had come to
Gerald and said that he too had seen the object. Another highly
credible witness, another thorn in Quintanilla's side.

After this visit, the Air Force became "highly involved," Harry
Buchert says. "We were bombarded by calls at home. My Dad had
more meetings with the Air Force. They were trying to tell him
it was a weather balloon. He couldn't change their minds. You
just surrender to it eventually."

On May 10, Quintanilla conducted taped interviews with Spaur and
Neff, their boss, Sheriff Ross Dustman, and dispatcher Robert
Wilson. The transcript shows that Quintanilla seemed to
alternate between the Venus and weather-balloon explanations,
but remained adamant that the officers had not seen anything out
of the ordinary. He denied that Air Force jets had been
dispatched, insisting that nothing had shown up on radar.

Silent through most of the interview, Dustman spoke up near the
end, apparently out of frustration: "Well, I, I feel this way
about it. It's too damn bad that these things are running around
through our sky over our heads, and the United States Air Force
and the government doesn't know what's going on out there.
Because there's too many of them, and there's too many people
have seen it." (Dozens of civilians claimed to have seen the
craft as well.)

"What does the Air Force think these are, Major?" Wilson asked.

"Misinterpretation of conventional objects and natural
phenomena," Quintanilla responded.

"What category does this go under? What Dale saw?"

"Place it under the category of satellite and atmospheric
observations."

Dustman: "Well, I'm sorry it's turned out this way, because I
know a lot of people have come to me and they saw the same damn
thing, and there's too many people involved for this thing to be
a mirage, or somebody's imagination."

Soon after Quintanilla returned to his base, Chief Buchert was
ready to call it quits. The mayor was annoyed with him, and
everyone else was giving him sideways glances. "The only reason
he stayed [on the job] was, I made a call to his mom and dad,"
Joan Buchert says. "It was a frantic phone call. His parents had
a big impact on him. I don't know what they said to him, but he
was better afterwards."

When a Plain Dealer reporter came calling about six months
later, Buchert turned him away. "It's something that should be
forgotten," he explained, appearing nervous.

Officer Neff also declined to be interviewed, but his wife
spoke. "I hope I never see him like he was after the chase," she
said. "He was real white, almost in a state of shock. It was
awful.

"And people made fun of him afterwards. He never talks about it
anymore. Once he told me, 'If that thing landed in my back yard,
I wouldn't tell a soul.' He's been through a wringer."

Today he lives in Florida "with two of them Taco Bell dogs." He
can talk about it now, though he prefers not to. "When I left
Ohio, I got away from it all," he says. "I don't look up
anymore. I look down. I just want to forget." But he stands by
his story.

So does Officer Wayne Huston, who left his job in East
Palestine, moved out west, and started going by his middle name,
Harold. People track him down occasionally, he says, and he's
gracious, but won't dredge up the past. In the aftermath, he
took a lot of heat for leaving his town unprotected to join the
chase. "The chief of police and I didn't get along. [The
incident] didn't help. I really don't want to go further than
that."

Pennsylvania officer Frank Panzanella refused to be interviewed.
He is not known to have recanted any part of his account.

Dale Spaur fared the worst -- perhaps because he was alone among
the cops who saw the UFO again, about two months later. He lost
weight and began disappearing for days at a time. He left his
job and his wife. Six months after the chase, a PD reporter
found him living in a motel in Solon, gaunt and destitute.

"I have become a freak," he said in his last known interview.
"I'm so damn lonely. Look at me . . . 34 years old, and what do
I have? Nothing. Who knows me? To everyone I'm Dale Spaur, the
nut who chased a flying saucer."

"I know Dale had a lot of problems after that, but I'm not sure
they were all caused by the UFO," says Henry Shoenfelt, who was
the sergeant who advised Spaur and Neff not to shoot at the
object. "All of the problems that occurred in his life after
that, he blamed on it. I can't agree with that. We all have to
accept responsibility for our actions."

Still, he adds, "I never doubted what happened. Not for one
second."

As recently as two years ago, Spaur had a small house in Rocky
River. His mail is forwarded to a post-office box in West
Virginia, but his whereabouts are unknown.

During Major Hector Quintanilla's interview with the police
officers, one of them asked, "What did you do that you got this
kind of job?"

"I really don't know," Quintanilla responded. "I've often asked
myself that question."

Whether the historically skeptical major was moved at all by his
interviews with the officers is not known. In any case, it did
not affect his ruling. The Venus explanation stood.

But not everyone was willing to accept it. In May 1966, the
National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP),
then a 10-year-old, civilian-run organization, took an interest
in the case. Investigator William Weitzel picked up where
Quintanilla had left off, collecting every report and newspaper
article he could find, and reinterviewing Spaur several times.
The most intriguing piece, however, came from Dr. J. Allen
Hynek, the Air Force consultant. Hynek noted that Venus had
risen at 3:35 that morning and would have been too high in the
sky, by the time of the sightings, to be mistaken for an
aircraft.

In 1968, Weitzel personally delivered his files to the
University of Colorado, where researchers were conducting a
review of UFO sightings for the Air Force. But their report,
submitted to Congress in 1969, made no mention of the Ravenna
case. Armed with the researchers' conclusion -- that "further
extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the
expectation that science will be advanced thereby" -- Congress
disbanded Project Blue Book.

Quintanilla was free. He retired from the Air Force not long
after and focused on golf, until a golf-cart accident left him
with head injuries from which he never fully recovered. He died
in 1997.

But he lived long enough to see his son Karl follow in his
footsteps, in a manner of speaking. After working as a cameraman
on game shows and soap operas, Karl Quintanilla began editing
UFO documentaries. His best-known work to date is a Sci-Fi
Network show on Bob Lazar, a physicist who claims to have worked
on a top-secret "reverse engineering" project involving a
captured UFO stored at a government base in the Nevada desert.

Karl told his father about Lazar. "He said, 'That's not the
government, but be careful,'" Karl recalls. "I think he was
suggesting there were other parties interested. A black
operation. Maybe not the government, but it comes to the
government in the end."

In January, Karl received a scanned version of the Buchert
photograph through e-mail. After viewing the digitally enhanced
image, Karl was not inclined to dismiss it as a processing
glitch, as his father had done in 1966.

"The longer I look at it, the more fascinated I become," Karl
says. "In the enhanced picture, it does have the classic
[saucer] shape. There's the classic tilt forward, like the craft
I've seen in the [Lazar] video. With all due respect to my
father and the Air Force, given the fact that [the police] were
tracking this thing at 103 miles per hour, saying it's Venus is
a stretch."

After Blue Book folded, a disillusioned Dr. Hynek moved his
family to Chicago and founded the Center for UFO Studies.
Uninhibited by government overseers, he spent the rest of his
years applying the scientific method to reports of sightings
from around the country.

In 1976, a young Steven Spielberg hired Dr. Hynek as a
consultant for a movie. Its title, Close Encounters of the Third
Kind, borrowed a phrase Hynek had coined. A scene near the
beginning, in which police chase UFOs through rural Indiana in
the middle of the night, is an homage to the 1966 Ohio-
Pennsylvania incident.

Dr. Hynek died in 1986.

His son Paul Hynek, a partner in the production company behind
many episodes of the MTV series Driven and other reality-based
projects, also has seen enhanced versions of the Buchert photo.
He too rejects the Venus explanation.

"By 1966, [my father] had already investigated thousands of UFO
sightings, and he wrote extensively about just how often
throughout the ages the planet Venus has been mistaken for a
UFO," Paul says. "So . . . when he says that this picture -- and
whatever was reported by the Ohio deputies who zoomed into
Pennsylvania in hot pursuit of it -- was not in fact Venus, it's
hard for a reasonably open person to dismiss it.

"This shows what I believe were the misaligned interests of my
father and the Air Force. For my father, a dispassionate
scientific observer, the goal was to shed scrutinizing light on
the reports, and let the chips fall where they may.

"Does it mean that it's a spaceship from Mars, with little green
men? No. It just means that given the available evidence, it
remains a UFO -- an unidentified flying object."

The Ravenna case attracted the attention of Dr. James E.
McDonald, the physicist, meteorologist, and former Naval
intelligence officer who spent most of his career in the 1950s
and '60s arguing for real scientific inquiry into the UFO
phenomenon.

The incident "calls for reevaluation not only on the scientific
grounds involved, but also to avoid unfairly subjecting to local
public ridicule the several officers who have testified," he
wrote. "The available evidence (especially Wm. Weitzel's
extensive report for NICAP) seems to me to make the astronomical
explanation, that now stands as the official Air Force
evaluation, quite unreasonable."

Problem is, there's no one to hear an appeal. The Air Force has
been out of the UFO investigation business -- officially, at
least -- since Project Blue Book was shut down.

Five days a week, Harry Buchert patrols the streets of Mantua
from 6 a.m. to 2 p.m. When he pulls out of the station, he
passes the baseball field dedicated to his late father. At the
end of his shift, he writes reports on the day's events --
 usually nothing more exciting than traffic violations and
domestic disturbances -- in an office his father once owned.

The episode with the UFO is always at the back of Harry's mind.
He remembers the frenzy of the town in the days following the
incident, his father's uncharacteristic acceptance of the
humiliating explanation.

Harry has spent his life following in the footsteps of his old
man. So it's only fitting that he'd want to write the final
report on the one piece of business his father left undone.

Validation will not come from the Air Force, but maybe the
opinions of Karl Quintanilla and Paul Hynek will help put the
matter to rest. Or maybe from one of the pilots whose planes the
officers saw. Or maybe from Dale Spaur, who may still be out
there somewhere, running from his memories.

-----









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   Jun > Jun 2

               Re: FSR On CD - More Volumes Available! - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:26:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:49:11 -0400
Subject: Re: FSR On CD - More Volumes Available! - Hale


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:05:35 +0100
>Subject: FSR On CD - More Volumes Available!

>For those of you interested, FSR has now released an additional
>5 CDs containing all issues up to and including 1972.

>It is my view that these CDs represent enormous value to anyone
>seriously studying the UFO phenomena, and are very reasonably
>priced.


List,

Having been deeply involved in the FSR CD Archives from the
start, I cannot reccomend highly enough, the vast amount of DATA
that these CDs contain, and having personally seen this work put
together for these CDs, you are in for a real treat of UFO
Archive DATA overload!

A must buy for all UFO history lovers, and for all newcomers
to the subject. I hope you all find the web design easy to use
when ordering the FSR Archive CDs, I understand they have been
very popular from the outset.

To place your order:

http://www.fsr.org.uk/ArchiveCD.htm


Best,

Roy







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                        New Sightings Statistics Page

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 02:02:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:52:44 -0400
Subject: New Sightings Statistics Page


Hello all:

My e-mail was down this past Memorial Day holiday weekend, so I
tediously compiled a page of UFO sightings counts by US States,
Canadian Provinces, with France and Britain/Ireland thrown in
for comparison.

Its on my Statistics menu now:

http://www.larryhatch.net/STATMENU.html

The actual new page is here:

http://www.larryhatch.net/STATECTS.html

Pretty dry stuff, just a lot of numbers. Some of you might want
to see where your state/province stands in terms of raw numbers
of UFO sightings for all dates; or for ratios of sightings over
unit area (square miles), and for sightings per 1000 population.

New Mexico has over nine times as many sightings per 1000
population as New York, something not obvious from my maps.

If you'd rather watch paint dry, I understand completely.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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               Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night -

From: Bill Weber <wweber1.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 08:53:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 09:45:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night -


>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 15:07:14 -0500
>Subject: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night

>A new radio show called 'Anomolies' starts on Sunday
>night at 11pm to Midnight CDT via the internet.

>This Sunday's June 6th guest is crop circle expert Nancy Talbot
>who'll talk about this summer's anticipated crop circle
>formation season.

>KWTO 560AM in Springfield, Missouri broadcasts the show hosted
>by Linda Eastburn of MidwestResearchSociety.com with co-host
>Ted Phillips of CUFOS and cptr.us fame.

>Next Sunday evening go to:

>http://www.newstalk560.com/index.cfm?day=5

>and click on stream button, then click on 11pm Live Stream
>button.

>Linda's looking for sponsors too!

>Let's get some for her so she can get some more shows!


Hi,

After listening to their regular lineup of Matt Drudge, Dr.
Laura, Paul Harvey, Jim Bohannon and Rush Limbaugh I'll be so
ready to puke that no matter what the show is like it'll be
_great_ by comparison.  I'm looking forward to it.


Best,

Bill







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               Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:32:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:35:13 -0400
Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -


>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 05:24:33 EDT
>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:20:58 EDT
>>Subject: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>I figure most of the veteran researchers on this List have met
>>witnesses or whistleblowers or other researchers who suddenly
>>'fell off the face of the Earth' or 'Shut up tighter than a
>>clam'.

<snip>

>Relax. People do not turn up dead under this administration.

Well, Robert, I suppose in your mind that the Iraqis who were
illegally tortured and turned up very dead after interrogations
in U.S.'s prisons (some of them evidently innocent of any
crimes, and none of them tried for any) in Iraq were not people!


Give reality a break, Robert!

Ray Stanford







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   Jun > Jun 3

                             It's World UFO Day

From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 16:10:15 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:20:44 -0400
Subject: It's World UFO Day



Hi List,

My computer just reminded me that it's world UFO day today. I
think this was an idea by Haktan Akdogan:

http://www.uforc.com/database/page25.html

I like the idea! Maybe next year we can arrange something. We
could gather some hard facts and send them to decision makers,
whatever. And if we just mention it on our websites...


Best regards

Hannes







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                        North Vancouver B.C. 05-14-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO  <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 08:00:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:24:17 -0400
Subject: North Vancouver B.C. 05-14-04


North Vancouver, B.C.

Date:  May 14th, 2004
Time:  4:00 - 4:30 AM

Number of witnesses: 1
Number of objects: 3
Shape of objects: Triangular Formation

Full Description of event/sighting: I've recently been reading
reports on the Internet about sightings of triangular formations
of lights around mid- to late-May of 2004. I saw something very
strange in the early morning hours on May 14th, 2004. I couldn't
sleep so I went out on to the patio at approximately 4 AM for a
smoke. I looked up and coming from the southwest, I saw two
lights that looked light two satellites flying together in
tandem. They were moving in a northeast direction, side by side.
There was a third one following behind them which I didn't
notice at first. My first reaction was 'wow - I've never seen
two satellites side by side like this before' but once I saw the
third one, I then began to wonder what this could possibly be.
My heart was racing a bit because I really felt like I was
seeing something that wasn't from this planet. The third one
caught up to the two moving in tandem and then suddenly, one of
the front two moved away and the third almost seemed to take its
place. By this time, they were way up northeast and soon, they
disappeared. They were definitely not meteorites and certainly
not a plane of any kind. This was truly strange. One of the most
amazing things I've ever seen in my life. The whole sighting
only lasted about 30 seconds at the most.

Thank you to the person for this report.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com Redirect:
http://www.hbccuforesearch.com





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                  Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:41:20 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:25:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Balaskas


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:55:47 -0700
>Subject: Sonora California 04-31-04

>HBCC UFO Note: I received some video footage which was taken in
>the Sonora, California area. The footage is nothing short of
>amazing. I will be posting it to my site as soon as the internet
>clip is ready. The video footage will show how dangerous these
>unknown objects can be, as the object filmed in the footage I
>have is "clearly" maneuvering near a passenger Jet Airliner. No
>bird, no balloon as a few out there would have us believing this
>object is. This object can dart around the sky at an incredible
>rate of speed coming to a dead stop. It makes "U" turns, moves
>diagonally. This footage is a must see and will be available as
>soon as the internet clip ready. So stayed tuned for an amazing
>20 seconds of UFO footage.

Hi Brian!

I examined a 10 second clip of this video of an aircraft with
contrail that you sent to Jeff Rense. The unknown object comes
into view and remains for less than this time. Based on this
footage alone, how did you come to the conclusion that this
unknown object was clearly maneuvering dangerously close to the
jet airliner? Since we do not know the size of this unknown
object to reasonably estimate its distance from the observer(s),
we cannot rule out a bird or balloon as the correct explanation.
Considering the erratic flight of this unknown object, the
changes in its reflective(?) brightness and the fact that it is
closer to the observer(s) than the jet airliner (this object is
clearly visible at one point when it passes in front of the jet
contrail), I would say that a bird is the most likely answer to
this latest video of UFO.

Unless we see the entire video (not just a few seconds) and look
for similar unknown objects or birds flying in other parts of
the sky, we will never for sure. So we either do nothing more
and pass this case on to posterity as a UFO or do a little more
critical and objective evaluation which may reasonably identify
it as an IFO such as a bird.

If we are to convince others, including our governments, of the
reality and seriousness of UFOs and that they were not something
that flew through our skies in the past, we must present much
better evidence than this. UFO videos and pictures such as these
are what some people, such as UFO skeptics/debunkers, would like
to promote and see more of so to discredit ufology and dampen
further interest in this field. By investigating all UFO cases
but showcasing the truly unknown ones, we take precautions from
unwittingly helping our critics!


Nick Balaskas








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                           Crop Circles As Oracles

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:31:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:31:07 -0400
Subject: Crop Circles As Oracles




Source: THe Toronto Star

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=3Dthestar/Layout/Art=
icle_Type1&c=3DArticle&cid=3D1086127812447&call_pageid=3D968867495754&col=3D=
969483191630


Jun. 2, 2004

[Photograph of an altered field, one of many seen in Robert
Nichol's documentary Stardreams examining crop circles.]

Crop Circles As Oracles
Filmmaker reaps alien messages
15,000 sightings claimed since 1980

Susan Walker
Entertainment Reporter

Crop circles have been puzzling observers for decades. Not
Robert Nichol. The director of Star Dreams, a documentary film
about the UFO-related phenomenon, is quite sure what these
precise patterns mysteriously carved into farmers' fields are
all about.

Along with other forms of activity attributed to extra-
terrestrials, Nichol believes that "the whole thing is preparing
us for contact. It's almost imminent, only a matter of a few
years."

The B.C. filmmaker, a former employee of the National Film Board
with more than 25 film credits to his name, has turned himself
into a travelling road show of the paranormal. He has organized
a series of 20 screenings of Star Dreams from Victoria to
Newfoundland. The Toronto engagement is tonight at 8 p.m. in the
Town Hall at Innis College on the University of Toronto campus.
Nichol is accompanied by Neil Olsen, author of Crop Circles
Deciphered.

Every year there are more sightings of more complex crop circles
=97 and now, ice circles and sand circles =97 and Nichol is
convinced a higher consciousness is trying to make contact with
people on earth. He estimates 15,000 crop circles have been
found since 1980.

"There were two in Ontario last year," Nichol claims, "both in
wheat fields. The one in Hensall (in Huron County) drew 5,000
people."

Star Dreams shows us crop circles, most of them from 70 to 100
metres at their widest point, as photographed from helicopters.
Their increasingly complex patterns, say Nichol's interviewees,
is an indication of a greater need to communicate. Others form
symbols that go back to ancient times and have led researchers
to examine Mayan and Hopi prophecies. It is no coincidence,
Nichol contends in his film, that so many crop circles have
cropped up, as it were, in the south of England near sacred
sites such as Stonehenge.

Nichol, a resident of Gibson's Landing, B.C., decided to bring
his film directly to his audiences to spread the wordHe is
certain the crop circles could not have been man-made, and cites
witnesses who say the circles get created in four to seven
seconds. Star Dreams documents sightings of "balls of light" in
the vicinity of the circles. Some witnesses have described UFOs
that appeared at the time of the formations.

The intent of the symbols is clear to Nichol. They are "a wake-
up call, asking us to come up to a higher level of
consciousness. They reach beyond the rational mind and touch us
at a very deep psychic level."

On his Web site devoted to crop circle research, Paul Anderson,
an artist and graphic designer, says crop circles have been
recorded in Canada as far back as 1925. While he is skeptical
about aliens transmitting messages, he believes "that somehow
human consciousness is involved or interconnected with the
phenomenon ... Whether this is an interaction with some other
intelligence(s) other than `alien' in the traditional sense, or
with natural energy systems, or both perhaps, is a matter of
opinion."

What is undeniable is the beauty and precision of the formations
seen in the film. Close up, they appear to be created in a
uniform fashion, with bent-over stalks swirled into patterns
that can include dozens of elements. "They're increasing
exponentially," says Nichol. Sightings have now been reported in
50 countries. In his film, people tell how they've felt
energized after walking through a crop circle. The same thing
happens, Nichol says, to audiences of his film.


[UFO UpDates thanks Greg Boone for the lead]







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             Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: Laurent Leger <leger-l.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 18:30:13 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:34:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 06:00:52 EDT
>Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>From: Laurent Leger <leger-l.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:59:11 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
>>>Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>><snip>

>>Brad and List,

>>Your hypothesis of fortuitious satellite observations deserves a
>>careful examination, and I would like to do some comments about
>>it.

>>First, I am not sure to what you refer about images groups, I
>>suppose in the following that you mean the different video
>>sequences.

>Thanks. I had thought my earlier posting had been posted but it
>hasn't. Most of the FLIR infrared targets are close to the
>earth's horizon, mostly above the earth's horizon within just a
>few degrees. The FLIR "lights" do not seem to display UFO-like
>unconventional performance such as high speeds, tight turns,

Brad and List,

Thank you for your answers. I agree with you, the erratic
motions shown by the FLIR images come from the manual tracking
of the operator, I never believed the contrary. All lights show
a quite constant bearing inside a sequence, letting all
possibilites between distant sources and close sources keeping
approximately pace with the plane. About the elevation, I would
just like to add that yes, the lights are close to the horizon
but it never appears clearly ; that the displayed elevation
number has a one degree resolution ; that it may have a little
calibration offset (as azimuth axis showed?  added to hysteresis
? according to Dr Maccabee) ; that the plane pitch may add
another bias (obviously not for -90 deg. az. images, but for the
-134 deg. and the -174 deg. images, here el=1 could mean in fact
-0.7...) Knowing that the NRWX2 vertical field of view is 0.3
deg., we can easily look below the horizon without knowing it.
And it is crucial to look at satellites.

>etc., and no real shape can be reliably discerned in the FLIR.
>The FLIR system has so much automatic gain control that infrared
>brightnesses are not at all certain, but Dr. Bruce Maccabee is

I agree the cloud brightness reference can only be used on
images where lights and clouds simultaneously appear, because
they bear the same gain, and there are many.

>checking into it. The radar trackings seem to have no
>relationship to the FLIR infrared, except possibly for one
>interval early in the incident which Bruce is checking on.

That's my feeling also, but yes, let's wait his conclusions.

<snip>

>>You say that group 4 images could be a geostationary satellite.
>>The only two possibilities to aim at the geostationary orbit (or
>>around, for out of service satellites) near the horizon like in
>>the footage, is toward east or west directions. In the segment
>>between 17:26:30 and 17:28:06, the FLIR camera is effectively
>>looking close to azimuth 270 deg. (west) where it shows a quite
>>extended/complex non-saturated source. The problem is that this
>>direction is also close to the setting sun direction (261 deg.).
>>It means a low phase angle for an hypothetical satellite. In the
>>following photometry section, we will see that a satellite
>>detection by the IR camera needs a specular reflection, yet,
>>such a low phase angle is very inadequate to give a specular
>>reflection from a wide surface.

>To the contrary a very low phase angle can create total internal
>reflection effects by refraction

To create that, you need a (here IR) translucent medium that you
seldom find on a satellite. The other disadvantage of low phase
angles is that the surface projected on the line of sight
(S.cos(a)) is small, and it is what is needed to have more
radiated power. That's why I said "a wide surface".

>even off of non-mirrored
>surfaces, somewhat like seeing the surface of a hot road asphalt
>road on a summer day at a shallow grazing angle looking like a
>highly reflective mirror of the sky above.

But it needs an interface between two mediums of different
index, or like in your mirage example, a stong index gradient.
This cannot happen around a satellite in empty space.

>>I add that the extended source
>>(2 arcmin) observed at this time could hardly be explained by a
>>satellite at 39,000 km range, it would need a 24 km size ! For
>>the other sequences of interest, the camera is looking around
>>azimuth 300 deg. and later 350 deg. where the geostationary ring
>>cannot be observed.

>The angular sizes of the Mexican FLIR images are very difficult
>to determine because of blooming or halation of bright energy
>sources and because automatic gain controls alter these
>brightnesses, making it even more difficult to reconstruct the
>power output behind each IR source. Bruce is working with the
>FLIR engineers to see if some kind of IR power estimate can be
>made.

I specified before that I was talking of a unsaturated image,
with a complex shape, that could not be a simple blooming halo,
and the optics for the same field of view did not show a so bad
point spread function before.

>>You also refer to Molniyas or medium-high altitudes satellites,
>>the only orbits compatible with a slow angular speed, hence a
>>lasting observation and an approximately constant direction. In
>>this case, the azimuth and phase angle restrictions no longer
>>apply. I did some photometry computations to evaluate if a
>>satellite can be bright enough to be seen by the camera, at this
>>wavelenght and the given spectral bandwidth. As we don't have
>>much details on the sensor detectivity, I had to compare the
>>satellite brightness to the one of clouds. The first result is
>>that a purely diffusing sunlit satellite without a specular
>>reflection is certainly too faint for the given altitudes. Now,
>>if we consider a surface reflecting the sun, I find that one
>>square foot at 20,000 km is giving a hundredth of the clouds
>>illumination on each pixel of the sensor. Not taking into
>>account the effects of aberrations/diffusion of optics that
>>worsen the ratio, as the light of the satellite quasi-ponctual
>>source is spread over many pixels, when there is no such effect
>>on the clouds because of their extended source nature.

>Because of the FLIR's automatic gain controls I'm not sure what
>effects these might have on comparative IR luminance
>calculations or IR power outputs.

That's why I used a differential method.

>Distances can cover a wide range as Molniyas come in differing
>orbital types (including the GLONASS Russian GPS satellites in
>11-hour orbits instead of 12-hour Molniyas) and still move
>relatively slowly at much closer distances. There are
>satellites in odd orbits because of failed upper stage boosters.

>Many military satellites in high orbits are highly classified
>whose existence is not officially admitted and whose orbital
>elements are classified. Amateur observer groups have tracked
>some of them but not all of them. Some such satellites have
>huge solar panel arrays.

>It would be better to not have to speculate and theorize.
> Surely there must be amateur satellite watchers with databases
>of such satellites they have observed and tracked, and who have
>software that can plot what was within field of view from the
>Yucatan on March 5, 2004.

I have a file of 8500 satellites elsets (including amateurs) for
the date of interest, and a very good acquaintance of this field
and the associated plotting programs. I would not have answered
you if it has not been the case and if I had not done these
plots. The problem is that, there is so many objects up there,
that even if you remove high angular velocity objects, in the
wide incertitude box you still find many objects. That's why I
used the photometry criterion to temper this hypothesis : slow
objects cannot be close, far objects cannot be bright enough.

Since my post, I also checked the bright stellar sources in the
L (~3.4um) and M (~5 um) photometry bands. I think that the
brightest stars in this band (alp Boo, alp Tau, bet And... and a
few other famous in IR astronomy) could be detected by the FLIR
camera, but none is close enough of the good directions.

>>Some images show a brightness of the sources very superior the
>>clouds' one, that even saturates the optronics (btw, in this
>>case the circular shape and size is not significant any more).
>>It seems difficult to me that a space object is able to create
>>such an effect.

>Also, you mention it yourself, it is
>>questionable that a satellite specular reflection lasts a so
>>long time (the surface orientation must remain within 1/4 of a
>>degree), and that so many different satellites do the same at
>>the same time (about ten sources).

>I only questioned the duration for my medium-height polar
>orbiting satellites. As for numbers there are a great many
>satellites in high earth orbits. There are more than 500+
>Molniya-type satellites in orbit and more than 600
>geosynchronous satellites. One might easily expect dozens
>within a small field of view at any given time if you look in
>the right directions.

This is true.

>Solar reflections are over 1 degree wide so satellite

The sun beeing ~0.5 deg wide, you can't turn a mirror more than
0.25 degrees between light goes off-on-off.

>orientations must be kept within about 0.5-degree. A typical
>geostationary satellite is in reality usually in a 10-degree
>inclination orbit rather than straight over the equator. So

Ouch ! my poor K band dish ! :-)

>that's very crudely 10 degs in 6 hours or about 600 mph more or
>less in a N-S direction at geosynchronous altitudes, or about
>0.5 degree in 20 minutes (but actually at the top of the orbital
>ascending node at the northernmost point this N-S motion reaches
>zero so maintaining 0.5-deg directionality might last a lot
>longer than the 20 minutes).

No need to talk about inclination. The body of a (healthy)
geosat makes one turn in 24h, that's 0.25 deg in one minute,
that the typical duration we can expect. My photometric results
and image size analysis make me feel it is not realist. Solar
panels give much longer flares around equinoxes, but they are
continuously kept in the sun direction. In the case of the az
~270 deg. observation (group 4), we see their back, the body has
a low S.cos(a), and again one cannot see a geosat close to the
horizon from az. 310 to 350 from Campeche (group 2 & 3).

Well, may be a facetious satellite is close and big enough and
stable enough in attitude, to nicely glint in any of the group
2, 3 or 4, so we give up one light. We just have now to explain
the 10 others.

>>I would like to specify that I have no preference for any
>>explanation of this observation, I am just looking for the good
>>one(s), as all of you ;-) !

>Same here.

>I should point out that the first rule in UFO investigation is
>to perform a Hynek Screening to eliminate the IFO possibilities
>first, by scientifically competent (not lackadaisical) means.
>This has not been done yet.

I would not say that, propose an explanation, and discuss it
with scientific arguments is a good beginning.

By the way, your explanation for some radar blips seems realist
to me, if the radar processing was switched in certain modes.
Regards,

LL








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   Jun > Jun 3

               Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:02:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:36:07 -0400
Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:32:54 -0400
>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 05:24:33 EDT
>>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:20:58 EDT
>>>Subject: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>>I figure most of the veteran researchers on this List have met
>>>witnesses or whistleblowers or other researchers who suddenly
>>>'fell off the face of the Earth' or 'Shut up tighter than a
>>>clam'.

><snip>

One might figure that, but I'd like to hear about it if anyone
knows of someone who has suddenly come up missing while trying
to disclose the "Truth". Long time researchers that I've spoken
with have met a number of witnesses and others in the field that
they have lost track of, but I don't recall any in which the
subject suddenly disappeared. I think it's far more likely that
people have simply moved on and everyone has lost track of them.

>>Relax. People do not turn up dead under this administration.

>Well, Robert, I suppose in your mind that the Iraqis who were
>illegally tortured and turned up very dead after interrogations
>in U.S.'s prisons (some of them evidently innocent of any
>crimes, and none of them tried for any) in Iraq were not
people!

>Give reality a break, Robert!

Tell me you're not trying to promote that as rational
comparison. Whether we agree with the military action that's
underway or not, we still need to accept the fact that there is
a war going on and people are not going to behave nicely. I
trust that some of the allegations you've mentioned will result
in criminal charges, but that's for others to decide and the
voters will have their say in November.

But I think it's unfortunate that politics has again wormed its
way into the conversation, and there are better lists for that
subject area. There's far too much speculation in this field as
it is, and I'd like to see specifics if it's alleged that some
researchers or witnesses have been silenced (other than the
military code or the current classification dictates).


Steve








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               Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night -

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 14:42:43 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:38:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night -


>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 15:07:14 -0500
>Subject: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night

>A new radio show called 'Anomolies' starts on Sunday
>night at 11pm to Midnight CDT via the internet.

>This Sunday's June 6th guest is crop circle expert Nancy Talbot
>who'll talk about this summer's anticipated crop circle
>formation season.

>KWTO 560AM in Springfield, Missouri broadcasts the show hosted
>by Linda Eastburn of MidwestResearchSociety.com with co-host
>Ted Phillips of CUFOS and cptr.us fame.

>Next Sunday evening go to:

>http://www.newstalk560.com/index.cfm?day=5

>and click on stream button, then click on 11pm Live Stream
>button.

>Linda's looking for sponsors too!

>Let's get some for her so she can get some more shows!

Gee, I must be like those crash test dummies the USAF moved in
time from 1953 to 1947. I was on Anomolies with Ted and Linda On
Sunday May 23... or so I thought... supposed to be their first
show... guess we were talking to the wall..

Stan Friedman

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html












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   Jun > Jun 3

                 Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:40:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo - Tonnies


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:39:06 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Parque Forestal 'Alien' Photo -


<snip>

>As for the forward pointing arm. This to me is clearly just
>fallen leaves in the background. Not only is this arm not the
>same colour as the rest of the body of the small walking biped
>but it matches the colour of the leaves - which are blurred in
>the same l-r u-l direction to produce what only seems like a
>forward pointing arm!

I agree. The pointing arm is the weak link that may help us
figure out what this is. I still haven't ruled out "biped", but
the more I look at the blurring the more I'm doubting my initial
gut reaction.


=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

Pre-order "After the Martian Apocalypse": in bookstores July 6!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/074348293X






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               Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 12:58:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:41:56 -0400
Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:32:54 -0400
>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 05:24:33 EDT
>>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:20:58 EDT
>>>Subject: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>>I figure most of the veteran researchers on this List have met
>>>witnesses or whistleblowers or other researchers who suddenly
>>>'fell off the face of the Earth' or 'Shut up tighter than a
>>>clam'.

>>Relax. People do not turn up dead under this administration.

>Well, Robert, I suppose in your mind that the Iraqis who were
>illegally tortured and turned up very dead after interrogations
>in U.S.'s prisons (some of them evidently innocent of any
>crimes, and none of them tried for any) in Iraq were not people!

>Give reality a break, Robert!

Well said, Ray. While it's silly to indulge in paranoid fears of
witnesses and ufologists ending up dead or disappeared, it's
just as absurd to pretend that "people do not turn up dead under
this administration." Thousands and thousands of them have -
Americans, Iraqis, and others. People end up dead every day
under this administration. Measured in sheer body counts, this
administration has quite a remarkable record, all of it written
in blood.


Jerry Clark








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               Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 13:26:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:43:53 -0400
Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:32:54 -0400
>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 05:24:33 EDT
>>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:20:58 EDT
>>>Subject: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>>I figure most of the veteran researchers on this List have met
>>>witnesses or whistleblowers or other researchers who suddenly
>>>'fell off the face of the Earth' or 'Shut up tighter than a
>>>clam'.

<snip>

>Well, Robert, I suppose in your mind that the Iraqis who were
>illegally tortured and turned up very dead after interrogations
>in U.S.'s prisons (some of them evidently innocent of any
>crimes, and none of them tried for any) in Iraq were not people!

>Give reality a break, Robert!

Sorry Ray. Under the Geneva convention spies and terrorists
(whether or not they really are is up for conjecture at this
point) "may" be executed without any civil trial since it's a
military action it's under military jurisdiction. Now these so-
called civilians may be caught as a spy or doing a very bad
thing like shooting or setting off a bomb at the coalition
forces.

But since there in Iraq or Afganistan nobody wears a uniform of
some identification then some citizens who are associated with
such Perpetrators then they may be mistakenly arrested as well.

Just watch the movie Blackhawk Down and it will open up your
eyes into this world of grey that's not set out to be black and
white any longer. It's not Saving Private Ryan stuff any longer.

You are almost on your own now as an average citizen of your
county unless you have connections or super wealthy. Our gov't
isn't going to cover your butt for anything.


Brian










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             Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 14:49:15 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:48:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:05:01 -0400
>Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
>>Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>Some of the FLIR infrared images or "lights" as I
>>previously posted, may possibly be sun reflections off of
>>distant satellites in Molniya-type orbits (what I call the

>>Group 2 images), satellites in medium-high polar orbits
>>(Group 3 FLIR images though a question might be raised as
>>to feasibility of extended duration of reflections from
>>such faster-moving satellites), and geostationary
>>satellites (Group 4 images).

>Hi Brad and List,

>Do reflections from objects generate enough infrared energy
>to register on a FLIR camera? I recall that there was a lot
>of debate regarding the Waco siege FLIR film with flashes
>seen on the film interpreted as gunfire by some and
>reflections by others.


Hi Will,

USAF and Russian infrared missile early warning satellites have
enormous problems with sun reflections, often off of other
satellites.  As to whether satellites within range were close
enough to generate the Mexican FLIR images depends on whether
Dr. Bruce Maccabee can get a rough IR power estimate and on
plotting the positions and characteristics of satellites that
were within range.  Amateur satellite observing groups have a
lot of this data.

Brad







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                           Filers Files #24 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:55:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:55:46 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #24 - 2004


Filers Files #24 - 2004
Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
Vice President of Skywatch International

June 2, 2004
Webmaster: Chuck Warren


Sightings Worldwide

This week we cover Venus Transit of the Sun, NASA - Discovers
Likely Youngest Planet, Mars - More Evidence of Life, Inter-
dimensional Crafts Exposed, South Carolina - Blue light, Florida
- Strange Object Caught On Film, Illinois - White Circular
Object, Michigan - Rectangular Object, Colorado - Flying
Triangle, California - UFO's Video Taped, Oregon - Sphere
Cluster Release's Object's, Canada - Green Lights, Brazilian UFO
Magazine Reaches Edition # 100, Argentina: Cattle Mutilations,
UK - Cylinder-Shaped UFO Seen, Spain - UFOs Photographed and
Australia - More UFO Photos

Memorial Day - Support the Troops

Every war has hateful qualities. The US and much of the world is
involved in a terrible war on terrorism. In every war the
citizens must sacrifice in order to win. I fought in Vietnam
where some of my friends and more than 58,000 US military were
killed. We have already lost a couple thousand in the World
Trade Center, and over 800 US military in Iraq. I feel the
strategy to take the war to the terrorists is working reasonably
well, most of the terrorists have gone to Iraq to kill Americans
and our troops have the ability to defend themselves. We are
even uncovering buried Iraqi aircraft and attempting to rebuild
a nation. I have spent many months in the Middle East and the
average person there has no understanding of life in the rest of
the world. This is the main reason for the terrorist attacks,
lack of understanding and tolerance of other ideas. I admit, we
also have very little understanding of the terrorist world and
even why they are out to destroy us.

Until we are educated about each others beliefs and needs and
obtain tolerance for each other many more will die. So far the
US has been spared more disasters here because our troops are in
harms way and have a base of operation in the Middle East. War
is a strange preoccupation of mankind, countries we fought
against in World War II are now our allies. The thousands who
died at D-Day and who are dying now in Iraq and Afghanistan
deserve our support and prayers. Perhaps war brings respect and
understanding between peoples and just maybe we will learn to
live together in peace? Hopefully a new Iraqi government will
help create a stable country. So I ask you as we celebrate
Memorial Day to pray for and support our troops.


Venus Transit of the Sun

Michael Lawrence Morton Archaeocryptographer writes, "At the
"Beginning-of-Ingress" of the VENUS-Transit on the 8th of June,
2004, there will be displayed a RATIO between the *exactly-
encoded* sky-locations, of Planet VENUS and of The SUN .. which
will reflect the relative_Lengths_of the EDGE and of the MARS
FACE .. of a Regular TETRAHEDRON (a solid figure with four
triangular surfaces) Thanks to Michael Lawrence Morton . -


NASA - Discovers Likely Youngest Planet

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope has
discovered probably the youngest planet ever found - a celestial
body that at a million years old or less is a cosmic toddler.
The telescope also has shown that developing stars called
protostars, are as common as insects and that the planetary
construction zones around infant stars have considerable ice
that could produce future oceans. Spitzer's infrared array
camera was built by NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt,
Md. The infrared telescope has been orbiting near our sun found
an object 420 light-years away in the constellation Taurus, that
is on the edge of a Planet-forming dusty disk that encircles a
million-year-old star. Scientists believe our Earth is 4.5-
billion years old so this star is very young in comparison.

A sharply defined hole in the middle of the disk suggests that a
forming planet created the opening. Spitzer has surveyed five
very young stars in the constellation Taurus, and found organic
materials in space, but this is the first time they were seen
unmistakably in the dust making up planet-forming discs. NASA's
Spitzer Space Telescope has detected the raw ingredients for
planets and ultimately life in these icy dust particles that
contain organic materials. These planetary construction zones,
or dusty planet-forming discs, which circle infant stars suggest
these materials may contain life forming building blocks. Icy
dust particles coated with water, methanol and carbon dioxide,
may help explain the origin of icy planetoids like comets that
travel throughout space. Scientists believe these comets may
have endowed Earth with some of its water and many of its
biogenic, life-enabling materials. These are building blocks of
what might end up as a solar system like our own. As for the
proliferation of developing stars. Spitzer revealed more than
300 star formations in one region in the constellation
Centaurus, 13,700 light-years away. Thanks to NASA

Editor's Note: Large amounts of organic matter float through
space potentially bringing life to all newly formed planets.
There appears to be a natural Johnny Appleseed spreading life
throughout the universe. This program could include DNA or
various plants, animals and even intelligent life. The DNA of
all life forms are very similar and could be spread by a creator
or ancient intelligent life form know as God. When advanced
civilizations travel to near by planets they also carry micro-
organisms and could deliberately carry Noah like animals. Our
Mars Rovers could easily have carried life to Mars from Earth.
Conversely, Martian life appears to have developed millions of
years ago and as the planet deteriorated, life may have been
brought here.

The sudden appearance of homo sapiens (humans) in South Africa,
Asia, and Australia infers the aerial transportation of our
species in earliest times. The ancient pyramids, sphinx,
humanoid faces, headdress, and similar architectural designs on
both Mars and Earth indicate similar origins.

JPL image shows hand like object below + with three fingers one
inch below center.


Image near Bonneville Crater shot by Mars Rover Spirit.

In a billion years of so our own sun will start to fail, and
eventually destroy Earth so our civilization may decide to move
to Mars that will be relatively safe for a while. It would make
sense for our civilization to move to another safer planet or
solar system when the sun becomes unstable. The recent heavy
tornado activity in the Midwest seems tied to storms on the sun.
Watch for continued =E2=80=98extreme weather=E2=80=99 over the next few days=

as sunspot region 621 is just rotating into position from the
eastern limb. It may host possible M-Class activity. It will be
in position for Earth directed activity within the next 24
hours. Space ship Earth is not as safe as we might hope.


Mars - More Evidence of Life

There are some various mysterious anomalies on Mars. Some Mars
craters show frost streaks running across the top of a crater
indicating that frost or ice crystals are outgassing from inside
the craters. Many craters show water streaks coming from a few
feet below the crater rim. Satellite images have frequently
detected fog or moving frost patterns. This fog which probably
includes ice or water vapor is spread out inside the crater and
often is seen depositing water into the surrounding area.
Frequently, patches of green indicating some type of plant life
occur in the area matching the frost outgassing . As the frost
melts in 65 degree temperatures it is quite likely lichen or
plant growth occurs. Water coming from within the crater is
being instantly frozen as it hits Martian ambient air
temperatures. However, the ice may include salt or anti-freeze
like solutions to allow it to quickly melt.

The Rovers on Mars have encountered soil that appears to be wet
when disturbed that indicates large amounts of water lie just
beneath the surface. Dr. Gilbert V. Levin is convinced his
experiments aboard the 1976, Viking mission to Mars found life.
The labeled released experiments found living micro-organisms in
the soil.


Interdimensional Craft Exposed

Alexander Zikas Director of Investigations, MUFON Virginia has
published and article in the May 2004 of "Alternative
Perceptions Magazine" issue #79, entitled: "Interdimensional
Crafts Exposed?" Attached are the two most important photographs
that are not lowered in pixel density. You may want to use these
in the Filer Files as they give better resolution than the
Alternative Perceptions posting. Use as my name and post as the
site to me (I have an email tab there).

One of the most interesting observations of Alexander Zikas'
research has been the photographic evidence of interdimensional
crafts. These objects are invisible to the naked eye, but seem
to share the same 3- dimensional space in our reality, when they
are captured on photographs. He speculates on the anatomy of
these objects, where they originate, their properties, their
occupants, their effects on the human mind, and skeptical
observations on the evidence. He has named these UGOs (U-shaped
Grated-body Objects) due to the U-shaped rim on one side and the
grate pattern of lines that extend from it.

Unaware of the significance, Zikas' colleagues provided him
copies of their photographs that he was able to recognize as
exhibiting similar characteristics. The close-up photograph is
courtesy of Bill Bean.

The other photograph is provided by Beverly Blake. Blake's
photograph was taken along a highway in Laughlin, Nevada. Notice
that in both photographs, an occupant can be faintly seen at
www.mysterious-america.net contact www.GreekFuture.com


South Carolina - Blue light

PICKENS -- This is the description my 9 year old son gave me of
the object he saw on May 30, 2004, at about 8:00 PM. He was
looking out the window and noticed a bright neon blue light
about two to three times the size of the largest and brightness
star in the sky. From about the top of the horizon the object
streaked down. It appeared to be some distance away. He said
that the object was moving faster than any planes he had ever
seen in the sky, but didn't move so fast to leave a tail or
tracer. He is unsure if the object blinked on and off or if it
appeared that way because he was seeing it from behind some tree
limbs. After a few seconds the object disappeared behind a
mountain across from us. I would have been skeptical to file a
report for him except I feel he is familiar with the night sky,
stars and the appearance of aircraft in the area. We enjoy the
sky and stars and watch them on a regular basis. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director


Florida - Strange Object Caught On Film

KEY WEST -- The witness accidentally captured in a photo with
family members a strange object that appears to be a UFO. The
witness states, "My husband, my sister-in-law, and myself were
on a four day cruise in the Caribbean. On the evening of
December. 19, 2002, we were getting ready to depart Key West,
and were on the uppermost deck of the ship watching the sunset
to our west. The time was between 5:30 and 5:45 p.m. The sun
sets very quickly, so I was intently watching the sun go down
thru the view finder of a simple Kodak 35 mm disposable camera.
Music was playing but not loudly. There was no noise coming from
overhead and no motion to take our attention away from getting
the sunset on film. I took only two shots, just a few seconds
apart.

I had the film developed at a local Wolfe Camera Shop. I looked
at the photos before I left and when I saw the object in the
sunset photo, I asked their representative if there was a
scratch on the negative or any trash on it. He looked at the
negative closely with a magnifying eye piece and said no there
wasn't. He thought, like I did, it was a very curious photo and
even jokingly said that "you may have captured a UFO without
even knowing it." The object is gone in the photo taken almost
immediately after the first one.

I mailed the negative to the Kodak Picture Center @ 901 Ctr Pk
Dr, Charlotte, NC it enlarged to an 8" X 10". The enlargement
definitely showed it to be a solid object.

We put a magnifying device right over the two ends of the object
and when you shine a pin light flashlight into the part provided
for that, the end toward the sun is a reddish yellow, reflecting
the sun I believe. The end away from the sun is definitely
green. Also, there are distant ridges to the parts that slant
downward to the Gulf of Mexico. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research


Illinois - White Circular Object

CHICAGO -- I was sitting on my back porch around 1:30 p.m., on
June 1, 2004, and I noticed an object floating by in the sky, it
moved slowly and then it hovered for about 2 minutes. It was
round and white, and it was small in size. It stood still and
then started moving upwards and disappeared. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com

OTTAWA -- Over the past couple of months, I have noticed an
object in the sky. It doesn't appear every night but every
couple of days around 10-11 PM, and will hover moving away and
coming closer for a couple of hours. It's location varies,
sometimes it is to the west and other times it is to the north.
It appears to be a saucer shape about a mile or so above the
ground. It has flashing bright white lights. Each time it
appears a helicopter flies nearby it in the sky flashing blue
and red lights. It seems to be intentionally mimicking the red
and blue lights of the helicopter. It has never gotten close
enough for me to take pictures. E-mail report.


Michigan - Rectangular Object

BRIGHTON - Doug Parrish saw a slightly curved surface of a huge
brushed aluminum rectangular object on Thursday evening, May 26,
2004, at 6:50 p.m. He states, "I had just left the Best Buy and
was heading west towards Howell, on I-96, when I looked up and
it looked like it was floating gently in the sky several miles
away from me, but it was the width of my thumbnail at arm's
length - making it 1000 to 1500 feet long ." It was on a slight
decline with its forward leading edge pointing slightly
downward. It was not a plane because there were no wings nor was
there a tail, just a very large slightly convex curved
rectangular surface. It was like a paper towel tube made out of
aluminum, cut it end to end down one side, then opened it up and
tried to make it lie flat. It was glittering in the sun's light
but I could make out its strange, non-aeronautical shape. It
very closely resembled another craft of similar dimensions that
I saw a few years ago in England.



It remained in sight for a couple of seconds. Then trees
alongside the highway were in the way for 20 or 30 seconds. When
I once again cleared the trees, the object had disappeared,
probably into a cloud. The object was headed towards one of the
clouds ahead of it. Thanks to Doug Parrish, Howell,
dkparrish.nul



Colorado - Flying Triangle

DENVER - On May 10, 2004, at about 3:35 AM, the witness had a
pretty amazing sighting. He had gone out in the back yard for a
smoke and scanned the sky and noticed three stars moving in a
triangular formation, two lights leading with the third trailing
them. The formation came in from the south-east. As if that
wasn't enough, as the trio passed directly overhead, a fourth
"appeared", joined the trio, and seemed to drop in altitude
(perhaps because it definitely grew much larger and brighter
than the other three). The fourth came in from the east, then
changed course and speed to match the trio; the fourth partner
sped off ahead of the trio to the northeast. The trio followed
slowly, taking about 3 minutes to cross the sky and disappear. I
say "trio" rather than "HUGE black triangle" because the stars
only seemed to dim and blur as the triangular formation crossed
them, rather than completely blocking stars as I expect an
intervening triangular vehicle would. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director www.UFOCenter.com


California - UFO's Video Taped

Sonora -- Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research obtained some
video tape footage from a witness who shot a jet airliner and
"something" else which moved around the sky rather quickly. When
I ran the tape back and slowed the footage down, one can see
"clearly" the jet airliner and an "object". The object appears
from behind the jet airliner at a short distance away and
travels up and down in the sky passing on the opposite side of
the jet's contrail. This object covers a large area in the sky
in such a short period of time. Matter of fact the object then
appears to sit stationary.. I am not exactly sure how long the
object stays in sight as I have to watch this again but the
witness catches the object for a good length of
time.www.hbccufo.com


NORTH HIGHLANDS - Jeff Challender reports, "On the 12th of May
2004, my wife and her friend were out on the front lawn as my 17
year old son got off the school bus. A helicopter flew overhead
and when they looked up an unusual object was also seen that was
much higher and further away. My wife called me out and it
looked like silvery mylar helium balloons. I asked my wife to
bring me our camcorder so that I might capture the event on
tape. I turned on the camcorder, and aimed in the direction of
the object. When I found it in the viewfinder, I zoomed in to
500x, the maximum this camcorder is capable of and the object
was bright, and flashing on and off. It was moving east, while
the wind was SSW, 10 - 15 mph. As the object proceeded east, it
became obvious that it would soon pass behind a tree in a
neighbor's yard. The tree limbs offered a point of reference to
gauge speed and direction with greater accuracy.

The stationary tree showed that the object was not only tacking
across the wind, but "skipping" side to side, and apparently, up
and down as well. I am reminded of Kenneth Arnold's 1947
description of his UFO sighting. He stated that the objects he
saw behaved like a "saucer skipping on water". This object
behaved in much the same manner, although it never presented any
appearance of a saucer shape. Throughout the event, it was a
flashing light of varying brightness. In addition, the flashing
was uneven. After two minutes of recording, the object
disappeared behind a tree, and did not return. We cannot
identify it. The witnesses were myself age 51, my wife Janet age
47, her friend Sharon Springs age 45, and my son Max age 17. We
are all willing to swear before almighty God that this statement
is a true and accurate account of what we observed with our own
eyes. Thanks to Jeff Challender challenderjeff.nul


Oregon - Sphere Cluster Release's Object's.

Sherwood - The witness, a pilot, spotted an object overhead at
1:45 PM, that looked like a balloon flying at 5-10,000 feet on
May 8, 2004. He states, "I brought out my 8x42 binoculars and
saw a sphere cluster or about 5 sphere's with a cord hanging
down and a small object at the bottom in a clear sky. I then
used my 18x50 Image stabilized binoculars and noticed the cord
and attached object had separated and was falling away. The
sphere's were about 5-10' diameter. Moving with upper level wind
-west to east at about 10 knots? The spheres were not rotating
or tumbling like balloon's would. They were an off-white color
and the sighting lasted about ten minutes duration. I noticed
three smaller spheres near but moving away from the cluster. No
planes or confirmed balloons were in the area. Two minutes later
I noticed three more small object's closer to the cluster and
moving away at a slightly faster speed. After moving some
distance away from the cluster, the smaller objects disappeared.
The larger objects were the size of a golf ball compared to a
pea. Then, focusing on t=D8=F8 he cluster, I saw three more small
objects being released by the cluster and this was repeated two
more times. I had similar sightings in Lake Oswego, Oregon that
were much closer. NUFORC Note: We spoke with this witness via
telephone, and he sounded to us to be quite credible. PD

www.UFOCenter.com



Canada - Green Lights

Trail, BC -- On an overcast evening the witness poured himself a
cup of coffee and went outside on May 20, 2004, at 10:15 p.m.
and saw a dimly lit green light just below the cloud cover. He
rubbed his eyes and ran into the house to get his glasses and
saw the same green light in the northeast and another one slowly
following two to three kilometers behind the first. The two
green lights were moving very slow and even though the lights
were not extremely bright the witness said he was still able to
see the texture of the clouds as the green objects lit up the
clouds as they flew along. He noticed that when the objects
passed over his head, he could hear his short wave radio acting
up. Once the lights moved from his general area the radio seemed
to be fine.

The witness said he was able to view the lights for a couple of
minutes and the lights traveled on a straight line not making
any unusual maneuvers. There was no sound heard. Others saw the
sighting and contacted the Trail RCMP over the sightings that
had taken place on May 19, 2004. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research www.hbccufo.com


NIAGARA FALLS - A photographer took a series of digital images
of the falls and in one is a saucer shaped UFO. The subsequent
shots are taken just a few seconds apart and rule out balloons,
aircraft or blimps. Thanks to Ufocasebook See:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/niagarafallsphoto.html

Brazilian UFO Magazine Reaches Edition # 100

This month the Brazilian UFO Magazine will publish its one-
hundredth edition. It is the longest living newsstand UFO
magazine in the world, that was founded in 1985, and is edited
by A. J. Gevaerd. It examines some great cases this month.

VARGINHA CASE. Revelations about the crash and retrieval of a
UFO and at least two of its occupants in Varginha, Brazil on
January 26, 1996.

JACQUES VALL=C3=89E INTERVIEW-- what can researchers expect of the
phenomena.

INCREASING ACTION. New and astounding cases of UFO observations
and abduction in 2004, in Brazil, indicate greater UFO activity
this year.

MEXICO EXCLUSIVE: In-depth and complete coverage of the 11 UFOs
footage in Mexico with transcripts of the pilots=E2=80=99
conversation.

LANDING TRACES. New info about old cases makes UFO researchers
turn their attention to revolutionary theories about UFO
activity in Brazil.

AMAZON CASES. A survey of contacts involving the Chupa-Chupa
including attacks of victims on river islands and small
communities. Check out http://www.ufo.com.br


Argentina - Cattle Mutilations

SUCO - On Sunday, May, 30, 2004, the Circulo Ovnil=C3=B3gico
Riocuartense received a phone call from a rural establishment 55
km distant from the town in southern Rio Cuarto, in which Mr.
Senen Gregorat explained that in late March of this year a
cattle mutilation case had taken place on his property. From
Gregorat's own investigations, it turns out that the alleged
mutilation was the work of "pranksters" who killed the animal by
introducing a wet bag into its mouth to suffocate it.

Later that day, Mr. Gregorat reported that he had just found a
two year old "Pampa" breed cow, weighing some 280 kilograms,
dead and mutilated. From Gregorat's own observations, relayed
via cell phone, he said that the right eye and ear wre missing
along with part of the udder and anus, and that it's "leg hair"
appeared to have been singed by a considerable source of heat.
The animal did not shown any signs of having died violently.
When asked if its hooves were dirty, he replied that they were
not and that he could not tell if it kicked while dying, since
any marks on the ground would have been erased by the trampling
of other cattle in the lot.

In his phone call, the cattleman noted that to judge from what
he could see and understand, the animal would have been "hoisted
and subsequently deposited on the lot's floor without any
violence," since there were no signs of fractures or bruises on
the animal's body, nor traces of soil on its hide."

Gregorat added that a few nights ago (Thursday) while he and
other people were at a highway toll gate in Suco, they witnessed
the presence of an object in the sky that looked like a very
bright star, but moments later they confirmed the "the supposed
star was moving from east until it passed right over us."

Translation (c) 2004. Scott Corrales, IHU.


Spain - UFOs Photographed



MALAGA -- Thousands of citizens were attending a procession of
the passion of Christ on April 7, 2004 at 1630 hours for an
Easter celebration. The procession issues from the parish of
DIvina Pastora in the Capuchinos neighborhood where a
photographer took a series of photos. - Rainor claims that after
transferring the images to a computer and having inspected them
one by one, he realized that the camera had picked up a photo of
a UFO that was taken over the river and the Trinidad district.
The evidence was recorded on photo No. 212 out of total of 260
taken that afternoon. A SONY Cybershot Model P-31 (2 megapixels)
was employed. There was a clear sky in good weather.

BARCELONA --On Sunday, May 9, 2004, Ms. N.M. saw an unidentified
flying object in the skies over Barcelona while in the company
of two of her children. N.M., a criminologist and businesswoman,
was driving along the Casteldefels to Barcelona highway at
around midnight when both she and her children witnessed (to the
left of the road, that is, toward the interior, since the beach
is on the left) an unidentified flying object of considerable
size, described as a rhomboid with one of its vertexes broken
off or truncated, or rather folded in, having a shiny orange
color. The sighting occurred on the stretch of road between Gava
and Viladecans and the witness contacted Mundo Misterioso
www.mundomisterioso.com. Translation (c) 2004. Scott Corrales,
IHU.


UK - Cylinder-Shaped UFO seen

NELSON, LANCASHIRE -- On Saturday, May 22, 2004, at 3 p.m., Bill
and Margo Wells and their two grandchildren were having a picnic
on the shore of the Walverden Reservoir, when they spotted
something unusual in the sky approaching from the west. "There
were four people seeing this," Bill reported, "Two adults and
two children. We were having a picnic when our eldest grandchild
said, 'Look at that stick in the sky!'" "And this is just what
it looked like--a black line in the sky, like a stick. It was
stationary, not moving except to turn slightly or go slower. The
'stick' was a diagonal line going from left to right that was
about one inch (2.5 centimeters) long in the sky.

We continued to watch it for about 20 to 30 minutes, and then it
turned to the east, or went shorter and vanished." The object's
"height was deceptive because it was a lot bigger than a plane
would be at the same distance." Thanks to UFO Roundup Vol. 9,
#22 6/2/04 Editor: Joseph Trainor, Masinaigan.nul
http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


Australia - More UFO Photos

ADELAIDE --Kathy writes she saw and photographed a UFO that was
flying by her home less than a mile away. She states, "The only
thing that I could see was that the underside seemed curved and
very smooth; the other part of the craft seemed bathed in bright
yellow/orange glow with a brilliant white light that seemed to
move from the top of the craft to the center." I have had the
shots enlarged, they look stunning. All that day I felt odd as
if I had much anticipation. My son kept asking me what was
wrong, I said 'nothing ' It was as if I was waiting for someone.
Never felt like that previously with other sightings.

By the way, en route from LA to Sydney , returning from one of
the

Laughlin seminars, I managed to see a craft paint on the radar
scope

when I was in the Qantas flight deck with the pilots [prior
911]. They

saw the craft also. They told me they see them often. Cheers
from

Kathy in Australia.


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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 3

              UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet Airliner

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:02:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:58:16 -0400
Subject: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet Airliner


Sonora, California - UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet
Airliner

The footage can be found below on HBCC UFO Research and the Jeff
Rense site.

HBCC UFO Research Note: I have watched this video footage which
is extremely clear to watch. I personally am amazed at what I am
looking at on this tape. This object moves so fast, yet can stop
of a dime and again from a dead stop move again at an incredible
rate of speed. It is like it never stopped moving. I would
suggest this footage is a must see. Also gang there is another
clip which I will be adding to the site. It is a nighttime shot
and there appears to be  a large triangular craft and an
aircraft that passes right underneath it. Still lots of
different bits of footage to come from other folks.

The footage is copyrighted to the owner =A92004Mark A. Olson, D.M.

1. - UFO & Jet Airliner - I received an email from my friend who
told me in his letter that he caught an amazing unknown object
on film and he wanted to send me a copy of the footage he took.
Of course I said I would love to see the tape, so he parceled it
up and sent it along. I received the video tape in the postal
mail on Saturday, May 29, 2004. I brought it home and popped the
tape into my VCR, sat back to see what the gentleman had
captured on May 15, at 4:46 p.m. As the tape started to play I
saw a passenger Jet Airliner traveling across the sky leaving
it's contrail following behind. All of a sudden from high above
I was able to clearly see a white or a shiny object. The object
started to move downwards at an incredible rate of speed and
when it reached just above the Jets contrail it came to a brief
and complete stop. The object then either passed through the
Jets contrail or on the opposite side away from the cameraman
still continuing it's journey downward. The object again stops
on a dime, keeping in mind that when this object moves it is
traveling extremely fast. After this brief stop the object moves
towards the back of the Jet, moving diagonally on it's flight
path and once again at a distance from the jet it stops briefly
and then starts it's flight back up through the contrail and
traveling to a great altitude.

Video Clip Is 2.28 mbs

HBCC UFO Website: http://www.hbccufo.com/videos/Jet%20UFO-0000.mpg

Jeff Rense Website http://www.rense.com/general53/vkk.htm

2. - Disc Shaped Craft - Taped for 7-10 minutes. The same
witness captured what appears to be the same object on May 17,
2004 at 4:27 p.m. and ends up filming the object for approx; 7
to 10 minutes.

3. - Strange Aircraft All Lit Up. - On May 18, 2004 at 10:54
p.m. the same witness captured on video what appears to be an
aircraft of some kind. Not a UFO, but a normal aircraft. What is
rather strange about it is the number of lights that is on the
plane. There are lights all over the plane.

Thank you to mark for being so kind as to send the footage to
me.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com Redirect:
http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








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   Jun > Jun 3

             Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 19:37:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:08:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 01:28:42 -0700
>Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:04:14 -0700
>>Subject: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>Source: Profindpages.com

>>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/29/MN132.htm

>>05-29-04

>>Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>Although Arrowhead UFOs are not the most common of UFO shapes
>>sighted, this sighting was even more unusual because of its
>>duration. The craft was seen by the entire crew of the SS
>>British Grenadier for exactly 3 days!

>>The event occurred around April/May 1969 while the SS British
>>Grenadier was sailing through the Gulf of Mexico. The UFO
>>appeared directly above the ship at exactly noon on the first
>>day. It just seemed to appear as nobody saw it arrive and it
>>remained above the ship for the next 3 days.

<snip>

>Hello Frank:

>At least they gave an approximate date. This is the first I
>heard of the story, and there is only one copycat version I
>could Google up.

>Searching for SS Grenadier shows a 3rd website, one about a
>memorial to Australian merchant seamen lost during the two world
>wars. At least one of those died aboard the SS British
>Grenadier. Not much else shows for SS B.G. ..

>But leaving off the 'SS', I find that the ship, some kind of
>tanker I take it, was sunk by a German U-boat in 1941 or 42.

>Maybe there was another ship by the same name.

>Best wishes

>- Larry Hatch

Larry,

I sent Profind the following e-mail:

To Whom It May Concern,

In regard to the article on the "SS Grenadier," I thought it
important to point out that there are no "British ships" with
"SS" in their title. There was a "HMS Grenadier" that met it's
demise in 1965.

Do you have information on "another ship" under British control
that can be confirmed--please advise.

Thank You,
Sincerey,
Frank Warren

This was the reply:

Hello Frank,

Thanks for the information on that. The person who supplied the
story seemed a little confused about the name of the ship (I
suppose it was some time ago and he had been on several around
that time). The ship wasa tanker and was on route to Cape Town
(I believe).

I will try and get confirmation of the name and get back to you.

Thanks again for pointing this out.

Kind regards,

Ian Brockwell
Profindpages.com

I Followed:

Ian,

Thank you for your prompt reply. I have contacted the "The
Department of Trade" in London to see if there was a tanker by
the name of Grenadier under British registry for 1969, and am
awaiting their answer.

Could you ask the names of other members of the crew, captain's
name, who owned the ship, anyone take pictures, ports they
frequented, how long was he a member of the crew, etc.?

Will let you know what the DOT says.


Cheers,

Frank Warren








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   Jun > Jun 3

             The Black Vault Shines Light Of Ufological Exposure

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 02:00:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:10:25 -0400
Subject: The Black Vault Shines Light Of Ufological Exposure


From The Black Vault Shines a Sharp Light of Ufological Exposure
By Larry W. Bryant

Readers unafraid to start asking the right questions of the
right people may begin by perusing my book review just published
in the June 2004 issue of a newsstand magazine called FATE.

The book at issue -- "Beyond UFO Secrecy:  The Story of 'The
Black Vault's' Pursuit of the Truth," by John Greenewald, Jr. --
 recounts the author's creation and operation of the web site
http://www.blackvault.com -- an 8-year-old, public-service
enterprise devoted largely to acquiring, analyzing, and
archiving loads of UFO-related records generated by various
government agencies.

So as not to dilute your reading pleasure (and/or the
publisher's proprietary interest), I offer here only the
following excerpt from the review.  The excerpt starts off with
a quoted passage from the May 14, 2002, edition of USAF Manual
No. 10-206's chapter 5 ("Communications Instructions [for]
Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings") -- and then ends by
posing my own "right" question to Mr. Greenewald:

"'5.7.4.  Make every effort to document sightings with as many
photographs as possible.  Send undeveloped film or prints and
negatives, with a brief written report and other identifying
information, to the Director of Naval Intelligence, Department
of the Navy, Washington, DC 20305.  The Department of the Navy
will process the film and return one copy of each print and a
roll of new film to the individual.'

"Well, how about it, Mr. Greenewald? -- let's make sure
someone's regularly FOIA-seeking some of those CIRVIS-generated
photos from the Navy's own Deep-Black Vault of UFOlore!"

For any UFO sighters eager to comply with those official
instructions, I have a word of caution:  remember (and heed)
what happened back in the fifties/sixties when a few camera-
lucky witnesses chose to turn over their undeveloped film to
"the authorities"; instead of receiving a return of their intact
film/negatives, they got back either truncated film or none at
all.

And, to this day, no-one has been held accountable for that bit
of stolen history.







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   Jun > Jun 3

             Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 00:03:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:12:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:16:40 -0400
>Subject: Re: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:04:14 -0700
>>Subject: Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!


>>Source: Profindpages.com

>>http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/05/29/MN132.htm

>>05-29-04

>>Arrowhead UFO Sighting Gulf Of Mexico Lasted 3 Days!

>>Although Arrowhead UFOs are not the most common of UFO shapes
>>sighted, this sighting was even more unusual because of its
>>duration. The craft was seen by the entire crew of the SS
>>British Grenadier for exactly 3 days!

>>The event occurred around April/May 1969 while the SS British
>>Grenadier was sailing through the Gulf of Mexico. The UFO
>>appeared directly above the ship at exactly noon on the first
>>day. It just seemed to appear as nobody saw it arrive and it
>>remained above the ship for the next 3 days.

<snip>

>>Although all these events were recorded in the ships log, this
>>is the first time (to our knowledge) that this event has been
>>published. We would be interested in hearing from any of the
>>crew that were aboard the SS British Grenadier at this time, in
>>order to obtain more information about this sighting. If you
>>were there and would like to write to us, please send an email
>>to: Grenadier.nul

>So, we are to believe that all these events were recorded in the
>ship's log! If anyone is so sure of that (or even that such a
>ship ever existed), why be so vague that we are told, earlier in
>this article, "The event occurred around April/May 1969 while
>the SS British Grenadier was sailing through the Gulf of
>Mexico."

>In other words, we are told all those details supposedly
>contained in the ship's log, but then the reporter says that it
>happened, "around April/May 1969"! If the writer is so sure it's
>all in the ship's log, but is so terribly vague about the date,
I> suggest we take this one with a healthy grain of salt. To me
>this reads to me like the worst type of science fiction.

The solution to this is conceptually easy... get the ship's log
and read. I presume the British keep ship's logs just as we
American's do.

In the case of the USS Supply sighting of 1904 of "remarkable
meteors," the initial public report was in the Monthly Weather
Review. In the 1970's while researching this sighting,I decided
to find out whether or not the statement that the "meteors" were
seen for "over two minutes" was backed up by the log.

So I went to the archives and "in minutes" held in my hot little
hands a book that probably had NEVER been opened since it was
filed in 1904.... the "smooth log" of the USS Supply.

I thumbed through until I got to the date... and bingo! The log
says the "meteors" were seen for nearly 3 minutes. It also
confirms "under the clouds" etc., very non-meteoric, by the say.

So, what have we to lose except a bogus UFO sighting? Go for it!

(Anyone interested in the Remarkable Meteor story can
check out:

http://brumac.8k.com

and scroll down to "Remarkable Meteors." There is a more up-to-
date version available including a power point presentation if
anyone is interested.








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   Jun > Jun 3

                 Re: New Sightings Statistics Page - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 5:40:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:15:57 -0400
Subject: Re: New Sightings Statistics Page - Aldrich


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 02:02:32 -0700
>Subject: New Sightings Statistics Page

Of course, this puts to rest the idea that UFO sightings are
roughly equal to population concentrations. California has a
moderately high count per unit area, but is not on the list for
high count per population. One could infer a number of things
from these stats, but in places like Connecticut, California,
etc. there are also many rural, low population density areas. So
political boundries are not necessarily good indicators of such
relationships.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.p






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   Jun > Jun 3

                 Re: FO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet

From: Billy Booth <Ufocasebook.nul>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 09:04:22 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:47:07 -0400
Subject: Re: FO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:02:11 -0700
>Subject: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet Airliner

Brian has shared these files with me, and we also have
them for download at the UFO Casebook.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/sonoracalifornia.html

These are quite amazing to me, unfortunately the distance from
the video camera precluded any close enhancement of the objects
in question. A big thanks to Brian.








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   Jun > Jun 3

               Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:16:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:50:30 -0400
Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -


>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 13:26:19 -0500
>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:32:54 -0400
>>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

<snip>

>>Give reality a break, Robert!

>Sorry Ray. Under the Geneva convention spies and terrorists
>(whether or not they really are is up for conjecture at this
>point) "may" be executed without any civil trial since it's a
>military action it's under military jurisdiction. Now these so-
>called civilians may be caught as a spy or doing a very bad
>thing like shooting or setting off a bomb at the coalition
>forces.

>But since there in Iraq or Afganistan nobody wears a uniform of
>some identification then some citizens who are associated with
>such Perpetrators then they may be mistakenly arrested as well.

>Just watch the movie Blackhawk Down and it will open up your
>eyes into this world of grey that's not set out to be black and
>white any longer. It's not Saving Private Ryan stuff any longer.

>You are almost on your own now as an average citizen of your
>county unless you have connections or super wealthy. Our gov't
>isn't going to cover your butt for anything.


Brian,

Since Errol has allowed this threadg to go this far, let me point
out the very grandiose error in your statement, this is what the
Geneva Convention says:


Article 3

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character
occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting
Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a
minimum, the following provisions:

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including
members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those
placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any
other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely,
without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour,
religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar
criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited
at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the
above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all
kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating
and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions
without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted
court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized
as indispensable by civilized peoples.


Respectfully,

Frank Warren







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   Jun > Jun 3

             Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:09:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:54:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 14:49:15 EDT
>Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:05:01 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:16:42 EDT
>>>Subject: Radar Targets May be Trucks On Yucatan Highway

>>>Some of the FLIR infrared images or "lights" as I
>>>previously posted, may possibly be sun reflections off of
>>>distant satellites in Molniya-type orbits (what I call the

>>>Group 2 images), satellites in medium-high polar orbits
>>>(Group 3 FLIR images though a question might be raised as
>>>to feasibility of extended duration of reflections from
>>>such faster-moving satellites), and geostationary
>>>satellites (Group 4 images).

>>Do reflections from objects generate enough infrared energy
>>to register on a FLIR camera? I recall that there was a lot
>>of debate regarding the Waco siege FLIR film with flashes
>>seen on the film interpreted as gunfire by some and
>>reflections by others.

>USAF and Russian infrared missile early warning satellites have
>enormous problems with sun reflections, often off of other
>satellites.

What Brad does not point out about infrared early warning
satellites is that (in contrast to the situation in Mexico) when
satellite infrared sensing systems have trouble because of
picking up sun reflections off other satellites, they are
looking at those reflections with _no_ diffusing atmosphere
between themselves and the reflecting satellite. Not only that,
but the detection systems used in those satellites are
substantially more sophisticated than the FLIR system used from
the Mexican aircraft.

Then too, the infrared early warning satellites normally are
looking more directly down (at a larger-than-oblique angle, thus
not having so much of an atmospheric diffusion problem) for
targets, but if (as Brad suggests might have been the case) the
Mexican FLIR was really detecting satellite infrared
reflection(s), it would have been looking almost horizontally
through many miles of diffusing atmosphere that in this case was
HIGHLY MOISTURE-LADEN (as evidenced in the abundance of clouds).

On top of that fact, in the sequence where the 'formation' of
infrared sources appears passing to the left of the aircraft, if
one is carefully observant (it happens very quickly), one can
see the things pass in _front_ of a distant _non-diffused_ and
thus highly light-blocking (cumulus) type cloud with their
intensity remaining the _same_ as before they pass in front of
that cloud, until the infrared sources are very quickly diffused
and then momentarily obliterated by a nearer cloud. To allege
that an infrared reflection from any extant satellite could pass
almost horizontally through the earth's atmosphere and survive
diffusion well enough to then penetrate that more distant
cumulus cloud with no diminishing of intensity and as a distinct
and almost point-type infrared source, is unrealistic thinking.

The reflecting satellite hypothesis ignores how very well water
micro-droplets (de facto, transparent, light refractive spheres)
can both refract and diffuse light, including infrared.

Let's not feed 'pelicans' unless it's a 'fishy' case. :)

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Jun > Jun 3

               Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1.nul>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:07:44 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:59:21 -0400
Subject: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk


Source: CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/06/03/meteorite.washington.ap/index.html

06-03-04

Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- Bright flashes and sharp booms were
reported in the skies over the Puget Sound area early Thursday,
and experts said a meteor or falling "space junk" may have been
the source.

Nothing unusual was detected on National Weather Service radar,
and authorities also ruled out aircraft problems or military
flight tests.

Toby Smith, a University of Washington astronomy lecturer who
specializes in meteorites, said scientists were looking into the
cause of the skybursts reported over a wide area about 2:40 a.m.

Witnesses along a 60-mile swath of the sound from near Tacoma to
Whidbey Island and as far away as Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, 260
miles to the east, said the sky lit up brilliantly. Many
reported booming sounds as if from one or more explosions.

"It made a pretty big bang," Petty Officer Andrew Davis said
from Whidbey Island Naval Air Station. "We thought it could
maybe be a meteorite or something."

Ralph Gaume of the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C.,
said it could have been a meteor, but another possibility would
be "space junk" such as spent rocket engines or satellites
falling from Earth orbit.

World Of The Strange http://www.worldofthestrange.com
Para-Discussion List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Para-Discuss/








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               Portuguese Air Force On Alert Over UFO Sighting

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 13:06:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 13:06:44 -0400
Subject: Portuguese Air Force On Alert Over UFO Sighting


Source: Space War

http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040603120319.975iwhmk.html

06-03-04

WAR.WIRE

Portuguese Air Force On Alert Over UFO Sighting

Lisbon (AFP)--The Portuguese airforce has been on alert since
late Tuesday, when several authorities and witnesses reported
seeing a luminous unidentified flying object, the national press
reported.

"Military radar surveillance has been increased and F16 planes
are ready for take-off," tabloid daily Correio da Manha reported
Thursday.

It said the Portuguese civil protection service had received
scores of calls from people who reported briefly seeing a
silent, luminous object in the sky on Tuesday night, giving off
white smoke.

Air force spokesman Colonel Carlos Barbosa confirmed to Lusa
news agency that military radars had detected "a target... that
was not identified as a plane" for two or three minutes.

The national air traffic control authority, Navegacao Aerea de
Portugal (NAV), also confirmed a UFO had been spotted in the
north and south of the country just before midnight on Tuesday.

"The control tower in Oporto (north) detected a flying object
which had been observed 25 minutes earlier in Montijo and Beja
(south)," NAV spokesman Paulo Lagarto said.

The authorities were unable to say what the mysterious object
was.

But Jose Fernando Monteiro, a geology researcher at Lisbon's
science university, said he had consulted US air defence
officials and the UFO could not have been a meteorite.

If it had been a meteorite it would have travelled much faster
and made a lot of noise, Monteiro told Correio da Manha and
Lusa.

The European Space Agency said the UFO was not a falling
satellite either and the Portuguese weather service said there
was no meteorological explanation for the phenomenon.

The only person to come up with a possible explanation was
astronomist Jose Matos, who said the UFO might have been an
Iridium telecommunications satellite.

"These satellites orbit at a height of about 780 kilometres (490
miles). They each have three antennae, which are polished like
mirrors and reflect the light of the sun," he told the media.

WAR.WIRE


[UFO UpDates thanks Milos Krmelj for the lead]








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   Jun > Jun 4

               Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night -

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 11:08:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:14:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night -


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 14:42:43 -0300
>Subject: Re: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night

>>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 15:07:14 -0500
>>Subject: Anomolies Radio Show Starts Sunday Night

>>A new radio show called 'Anomolies' starts on Sunday
>>night at 11pm to Midnight CDT via the internet.

>>This Sunday's June 6th guest is crop circle expert Nancy Talbot
>>who'll talk about this summer's anticipated crop circle
>>formation season.

>>KWTO 560AM in Springfield, Missouri broadcasts the show hosted
>>by Linda Eastburn of MidwestResearchSociety.com with co-host
>>Ted Phillips of CUFOS and cptr.us fame.

>>Next Sunday evening go to:

>>http://www.newstalk560.com/index.cfm?day=5

>>and click on Sunday button, then click on 11pm Live Stream
>>button.

>>Linda's looking for sponsors too!

>>Let's get some for her so she can get some more shows!

>Gee, I must be like those crash test dummies the USAF moved in
>time from 1953 to 1947. I was on Anomolies with Ted and Linda On
>Sunday May 23... or so I thought... supposed to be their first
>show... guess we were talking to the wall..

>Stan Friedman

Stan, my email was edited but it was supposed to be about
listening to the show via internet. "Starts" meant only because
it can be heard by a much wider audience that the broadcast
signal of KWTO 560AM.

BTW. You did a fine show too.

Brian









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   Jun > Jun 4

                Re: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 14:02:52 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:19:09 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:02:11 -0700
>Subject: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet Airliner

>Sonora, California - UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet
>Airliner

>The footage can be found below on HBCC UFO Research and the
>eff Rense site.

<snip>

Hi Brian,

The 4 or 5 seconds that I saw when I downloaded it didn't
impress me too much and was hardly worth the time I waited for
it. The stills on Rense's site are basically worthless. Is the
video on your site all that Mark would allow you to show? If so
why?

Best,

Don Ledger









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              Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations Lacking

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:30:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:30:55 -0400
Subject: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations Lacking




Source: The Las Vegas Mercury

http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2004/MERC-Jun-03-Thu-2004/24005082.html

06-03-04

Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations Lacking In Mexico UFO
Case

By George Knapp

The official arrival of summer is still a few weeks away, but
"pool weather" is already upon us, and that means it is
perfectly acceptable to plop down and read whatever strikes your
fancy. This is my justification for writing a UFO column.

Some readers are probably aware of my longtime interest in the
UFO topic. Although I no longer report on UFO matters for local
TV, my fat face seems to pop up weekly on some cable network UFO
special. (In just the past week, I received three more requests
for interviews and/or assistance from international journalists
working on separate UFO programs.)

Mainstream science and the U.S. government have done all they
can to discourage serious public interest and inquiries into the
UFO subject, but the damned flying saucers just don't want to
cooperate. They keep popping up at inopportune moments. Most are
explainable, but a few are not.

The UFO news out of Mexico in the past few weeks caused a minor
stir on this side of the border for a day or so, then quickly
faded into oblivion, overwhelmed by grim news in Iraq. But the
Mexican incident is one of the most intriguing cases in recent
memory - and one of the best documented. It deserves some
attention. The source of the information is the Mexican Air
Force, which was given the green light to release the data by
Mexico's version of Donald Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense.

On March 5, a Mexican Air Force C26A, while on a drug
interdiction and surveillance mission over the state of
Campeche, encountered 11 unidentified flying objects. The UFOs
were detected on both radar and a sophisticated thermal imaging
sensor (known as FLIR) aboard the plane. The encounter occurred
at 11,000 feet an hour before sunset and in clear weather. It
lasted about 15 minutes and was recorded on the plane's cameras.
At one point, eight of the objects formed a circle around the
plane. Crew members were understandably shaken.

Mexican defense officials ordered a hush-hush study of the
incident. They spent five weeks trying to figure out what had
happened but couldn't come up with any explanation for what had
been seen by radar, FLIR, cameras and eyewitnesses. The best
they could do was to conclude the UFOs were solid objects of
unknown origin and that they had flown along with the C26A under
what appeared to be intelligent control. That's when they
decided to go public. They took the highly unusual step of
contacting prominent Mexican TV journalist and UFO investigator
Jaime Maussan and then simply handed over everything they had on
the case. Astonishing, to say the least. Governments do not
cooperate with UFO investigators, as a rule, at least not the
U.S. government.

Maussan, whom Knappster has known for nearly 10 years, broadcast
the Air Force footage on his popular TV program. He and the Air
Force held a news conference and made the footage and evidence
available to other media outlets.

That's when the debunking started. Mexican scientists seemed to
take their cues from all the old excuses handed out by the U.S.
Air Force in years gone by, dredging up a veritable hit parade
of weak explanations.

The first explanation was that this must have been ball
lightning, a rare atmospheric phenomenon that has been used many
times by American debunkers to try to explain away UFO cases. A
nuclear scientist named Dr. Julio Herrera of National Autonomous
University was contacted by the Associated Press. Herrera
theorized that the UFOs were electrical flashes, and AP went
with the story, ignoring the fact that this incident occurred in
a cloudless sky and that it lasted for more than 15 minutes. Las
Vegas physicist Dr. Eric Davis spent six years studying ball
lightning and wrote a paper about it for Air Force Materiel
Command at Edwards Air Force Base, where Dr. Davis worked for a
time. Simply put, there is no way that ball lightning could be
responsible, Davis says. Ball lightning occurs during storms,
not in cloudless skies. It generally lasts only a few seconds,
sometimes up to a minute, but NEVER for 15 minutes. Besides, the
Mexican Air Force had already looked at this explanation and
found it wanting.

The inestimable Dr. Herrera wasn't deterred, though. A day or
two later, he offered a new explanation that was dutifully
reported by skeptical media. He theorized that the UFO flashes
were caused by the ignition of natural gases in the atmosphere.
(He didn't actually use the term "swamp gas," but damn that
would have been ballsy if he had.) The Campeche coast is an oil-
producing region, so there is natural gas in the area. But no
one knows of natural gas pockets that rise to 11,000 feet.
Besides, the sensors on the plane revealed the objects to be
solid, with definable parameters.. Plus, the objects followed
the plane for many miles and even formed a circle around it.
Does gas do that?

Another scientist speculated that the UFOs were "almost
certainly" space junk, pieces of satellite debris that had
burned up in the atmosphere. Again, this explanation doesn't fit
the described behavior of the objects. Debris doesn't surround a
plane and fly along with it. In addition, the Mexican Air Force
certainly would have known if the Campeche coast was being dive-
bombed by a vast field of space debris.

Finally, another critic offered up the old chestnut that it must
have been weather balloons that caused the sightings. As with
the ball lightning explanation, this one would have been more
credible had anyone bothered to contact Mexico's National
Meteorological Service, which explained that there were no
weather balloons anywhere near Campeche on that day. A spokesman
also noted that no one had bothered to contact the NMS to find
out if ball lightning would have been a possible explanation. It
would not have been, the NMS concluded.

A couple of UFO enthusiasts on this side of the border have
taken the case to the other extreme, declaring that the Campeche
UFOs were "alien motherships" and that the incident is a sign of
more encounters to come. Simply put, we don't know what the
objects were. They are, be definition, unidentified and will
probably remain so.

The most significant development to come out of this, in my
opinion, is the willingness of the Mexican government to openly
discuss a UFO encounter. It is a demonstrable fact that world
governments have classified files on UFO incidents, files that
have never seen the light of day. For the Mexican military to
openly admit that it has no idea what was flying around in its
airspace is an astounding departure from the party line toed by
other governments.

One other explanation needs to be considered. A colleague of
mine with extensive experience in UFO investigations and with
government agencies suggests that perhaps the Mexican Air Force
assumed the UFOs were some sort of secret American craft being
tested in Mexican airspace. It is conceivable they decided to go
public with the incident because they wanted to put the American
military on notice that this has got to stop. Of course, this
scenario depends on the idea that the United States has
developed some sort of invisible craft that mimics the
characteristics of ball lightning and space debris.

A UFO addendum

The Mercury has gone international. Our previous stories about
paranormal events on the so-called "Skinwalker Ranch" in Utah
have been picked up and reprinted in Brazil's leading UFO
magazine. The cover story was titled, "As fantasticas manobras
do Skinwalker" It is a bit weird to see the story as written in
Portuguese.

Gaming notes from Macau

<snip>

 - -

George Knapp is a longtime reporter and anchor for
KLAS-TV Channel 8.

Copyright Las Vegas Mercury

 - -







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               Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 13:29:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:42:14 -0400
Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured? -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 07:16:19 -0700
>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 13:26:19 -0500
>>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:32:54 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: What What We Do If A 'Crackdown' Occured?

><snip>

>>>Give reality a break, Robert!

>>Sorry Ray. Under the Geneva convention spies and terrorists
>>(whether or not they really are is up for conjecture at this
>>point) "may" be executed without any civil trial since it's a
>>military action it's under military jurisdiction. Now these so-
>>called civilians may be caught as a spy or doing a very bad
>>thing like shooting or setting off a bomb at the coalition
>>forces.

<snip>

>Brian,

>Since Errol has allowed this thread to go this far, let me point
>out the very grandiose error in your statement, this is what the
>Geneva Convention says:

>Article 3

>In the case of armed conflict not of an international character
>occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting
>Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a
>minimum, the following provisions:

>1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including
>members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those
>placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any
>other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely,
>without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour,
>religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar
>criteria.

>To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited
>at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the
>above-mentioned persons:

>(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all
>kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

>(b) Taking of hostages;

>(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating
>and degrading treatment;

>(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions
>without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted
>court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized
>as indispensable by civilized peoples.


Thanks for setting the record straight, Frank.

I'm sure you noticed that Brian was deliberately ignoring the
fact that I was clearly not referring to convicted "spies and
terrorists" (How would one determine them without a trial?), but
to people (including children) picked up off the streets without
any kind of evidence against them except being in the wrong
place at the wrong time.

Now that that's clear, maybe we can get back to UFOs, per se.

Appreciatively,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery


[Thank you Ray and Frank, let's end this thread here --ebk]







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             Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 14:57:16 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:47:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk


>From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1.nul>
>Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:07:44 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>Source: CNN
>http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/06/03/meteorite.washington.ap/index.html

>06-03-04

>Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- Bright flashes and sharp booms were
>reported in the skies over the Puget Sound area early Thursday,
>and experts said a meteor or falling "space junk" may have been
>the source.

>Nothing unusual was detected on National Weather Service radar,
>and authorities also ruled out aircraft problems or military
>flight tests.

>Toby Smith, a University of Washington astronomy lecturer who
>specializes in meteorites, said scientists were looking into the
>cause of the skybursts reported over a wide area about 2:40 a.m.

>Witnesses along a 60-mile swath of the sound from near Tacoma
>to Whidbey Island and as far away as Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, 260
>miles to the east, said the sky lit up brilliantly. Many
>reported booming sounds as if from one or more explosions.

>"It made a pretty big bang," Petty Officer Andrew Davis said
>from Whidbey Island Naval Air Station. "We thought it could
>maybe be a meteorite or something."

>Ralph Gaume of the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C.,
>said it could have been a meteor, but another possibility would
>be "space junk" such as spent rocket engines or satellites
>falling from Earth orbit.

What a maroon. Maybe it was a meteorite or something as PO Davis
suggested. But Ralph Guame of the U.S. Naval Observatory in
Washington, D.C., couldn't check their database to see if it was
man-made space junk before dazzling us with his "expertize"?


Don Ledger




>Nothing unusual was detected on National Weather Service radar,
and authorities also ruled out aircraft problems or military
flight tests.

>Toby Smith, a University of Washington astronomy lecturer who
specializes in meteorites, said scientists were looking into the
cause of the skybursts reported over a wide area about 2:40 a.m.

>Witnesses along a 60-mile swath of the sound from near Tacoma
to Whidbey Island and as far away as Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, 260
miles to the east, said the sky lit up brilliantly. Many
reported booming sounds as if from one or more explosions.

>"It made a pretty big bang," Petty Officer Andrew Davis said
from Whidbey Island Naval Air Station. "We thought it could
maybe be a meteorite or something."

>Ralph Gaume of the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C.,
said it could have been a meteor, but another possibility would
be "space junk" such as spent rocket engines or satellites
falling from Earth orbit.

What a maroon. Maybe it was a meteorite or something as PO Davis
suggested. But Ralph Guame of the U.S. Naval Observatory in
Washington, D.C., couldn't check their database to see if it was
man-made space junk before dazzling us with his "expertize"?


Don Ledger









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                          Secrecy News -- 06/03/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 14:53:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:52:02 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 06/03/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 50
June 3, 2004


**      IAEA REPORT ON IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM
**      CRS ON THE 2005 NASA BUDGET
**      CRS ON DETENTION OF NONCITIZEN IMMIGRANTS
**      INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT IN THE PENTAGON


IAEA REPORT ON IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM

Iran's controversial uranium enrichment program and its other
nuclear proliferation-related activities were scrutinized in a
confidential report of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

The June 1, 2004 IAEA report on "Implementation of the NPT
Safeguards Agreement in the Islamic Republic of Iran" was marked
"for official use only," perhaps in order to ensure the widest
possible distribution. A copy is available here:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/iaea0604.pdf

"Circulation of the report is restricted to [IAEA] delegations
and it's not a matter of public record, so I can't discuss it in
any detail," said State Department spokesman Richard Boucher
yesterday.

"However, I would say that... once again the International
Atomic Energy Agency has documented 18 years of clandestine
nuclear activity in Iran."

"Tehran has repeatedly failed to declare significant and
troubling aspects of its nuclear program. It has interfered with
and suspended inspections. It has failed to cooperate with the
International Atomic Energy Agency in resolving outstanding
issues related to its nuclear program," he said.


CRS ON THE 2005 NASA BUDGET

The Congressional Research Service has prepared a summary
analysis of the fiscal year 2005 budget for NASA which includes
an estimate, provided by the space agency, of $64 billion for a
2020 mission to the Moon, as proposed in President Bush's
January 2004 speech on space exploration.

See "The National Aeronautics and Space Administration:
Overview, FY2005 Budget in Brief, and Key Issues for Congress"
by Marcia S. Smith and Daniel Morgan, Congressional Research
Service, May 10:

http://www.fas.org/spp/civil/crs/RS21744.pdf

The previously unreleased CRS analysis was reported on June 2 by
United Press International, which said that it "has been seen by
only a few members of Congress."


CRS ON DETENTION OF NONCITIZEN IMMIGRANTS

"The attacks of September 11, 2001, have increased interest in
the authority under statute to detain noncitizens (aliens) in
the United States," according to another new CRS report.

"Under the law there is broad authority to detain aliens while
awaiting a determination of whether the noncitizen should be
removed from the United States."

The scope of that detention authority and its larger policy
implications are considered in "Immigration-Related Detention:
Current Legislative Issues" by Alison Siskin, Congressional
Research Service, April 28, 2004.

A copy of that report, courtesy of the U.S. State Department
Foreign Press Center, is available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32369.pdf


INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT IN THE PENTAGON

As a result of the sudden resignation of the energetic and
influential Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet, the
center of gravity of the U.S. intelligence bureaucracy is likely
to shift even further towards the Department of Defense. It
follows that effective oversight of military intelligence will
become even more urgent.

One of the venues for intelligence oversight in the Pentagon is
the little-known Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for
Intelligence Oversight.

"The Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Intelligence
Oversight [ATSD(IO)] shall serve as the principal staff
assistant and advisor to the Secretary and Deputy Secretary of
Defense for the independent oversight of all intelligence,
counterintelligence, and intelligence-related activities in the
Department of Defense," according to the newly reissued charter
for the position.

"In this capacity, the ATSD(IO) shall ensure that all
intelligence activities performed by any of the DoD Components
are conducted in compliance with Federal law, Executive orders,
Presidential directives, and DoD Directives System issuances."

See the newly reissued Department of Defense Directive 5148.11,
"Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Intelligence
Oversight," May 21, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/5148_11.pdf

Whether by design or not, this intelligence oversight office has
not left much of a public footprint. Even the identity of the
current office holder is not immediately obvious. But the ATSD
(IO) does have an official web site here:

http://www.dod.mil/atsdio/

"The assistant is just what his title implies, which is that he
is in a direct-report status relative to the secretary of
Defense," said Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence
Stephen Cambone at an April 7 hearing of the Senate Armed
Services Committee.

"He, that person, that office, does not report to my office; nor
do I have any authority over that office... because in fact you
do want to have an independent eye looking at that kind of
question," said Mr. Cambone.



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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                Re: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 19:01:06 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:28:17 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet


>From: Billy Booth <Ufocasebook.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 09:04:22 EDT
>Subject: Re: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet Airliner

>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:02:11 -0700
>>Subject: UFO Caught On Video Around Passenger Jet Airliner

>Brian has shared these files with me, and we also have
>them for download at the UFO Casebook.

>http://www.ufocasebook.com/sonoracalifornia.html

>These are quite amazing to me, unfortunately the distance from
>the video camera precluded any close enhancement of the objects
>in question. A big thanks to Brian.

Hi Everyone!

Lights in the night sky have amazed generations of humans since
prehistoric times. Armed with video cameras, this generation can
now share what their own amazing sights with the whole world.

Unfortunately things are not always what they seem, especially
with the new video technology. Unless we accept what we are told
that we are looking at, viewers will interpret things for
themselves and they will not always be agreement.

Below is what I saw and interpreted in this 22 second video
clip.

At times both objects in this Black and White(!) video exhibited
just TWO lights. Although the video camera operator zoomed in
and out, whenever both objects were in the frame they had the
same angular size. One object was NOT larger than the other.
Except for a single frame with a bright coloured(!) spot of
light, neither object exhibited so-called "FAA" lighting. So
which one was the "UFO" and which one is the "airliner"?
Depending on their direction of travel and orientation with
respect to the observer, the lights on the aircraft fuselage and
wing tips will form triangular patterns as those seen in this
video.

Conclusion: both objects were airliners, a sight that is very
common to those who live near high traffic airports (there are
at least three major airports within about 50 miles of Sonoro,
California).

What I did find strange is the very faint light from a third
object in the night sky in this same video clip. I first noticed
it in some of the frames starting around the 10:08:34 mark. It
is located between the two objects and slightly to the right but
I suspect this overlooked UFO is a star or just a distant
aircraft.

Thanks again to Brian Vike for sharing this video and to Billy
Booth for making it available on his web site for all to
evaluate and judge for themselves. Too bad this "amazing" UFO
turned out to be an IFO (most likely another airliner) just like
the same witness' other "amazing" UFO video of a jet and
contrail with an erratically flying spot which, for reasons
given in another e-mail, can more reasonably be explained as a
bird.


Nick Balaskas








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                       AP Meteor Crash Report Was Hoax

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 22:19:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:34:58 -0400
Subject: AP Meteor Crash Report Was Hoax


Source: Editor & Publisher

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/search/search_results.jsp


AP Meteor Crash Report Was a Hoax

By Joe Strupp

06-03-04

NEW YORK Associated Press editors were forced to retract an
earlier report that a meteorite might have hit near Olympia,
Wash., this morning after discovering that a source, one Bradley
Hammermaster, claiming to be an astronomy professor, had
perpetrated a hoax.

"An early report that a meteor might have hit turned out to be
false," said AP spokesman Jack Stokes. "It looks like a version
(of the story) was killed because it talked about a meteorite
hitting." He said AP was reviewing how the error occurred.

The original story, which AP released at 7:03 a.m. EST, stated
that someone identified as Bradley Hammermaster, and purported
to be a University of Washington astronomy instructor, had told
KIRO Radio in Seattle that a piece of meteor "about the size of
a small car" had hit just before 3 a.m. PST.

The radio station also quoted the man as saying "a team was
being assembled to head for the area where the object was
believed to have hit near the tiny southwestern Washington
community of Chehalis."

This version was picked up by dozens of news sites, most of
which later deleted the Hammermaster references.

The bogus report followed genuine reports of bright lights being
seen along a 60-mile stretch of the Puget Sound, which National
Weather Service and U.S. Coast Guard officials were
investigating as either a streaking meteor or other outer space
activity, AP reported.

An AP advisory sent out at about 7:23 a.m. EST stated, "The AP
story Meteorite-Washington... has been eliminated. The identity
of the source of the story cannot be confirmed."

Later versions of the AP story revealed the hoax.

"An early report that a meteor might have hit near Chehalis,
about 90 miles south of the city, turned out to be false, a
University of Washington scientist who specializes in meteorites
said," AP reported. "A man who identified himself as University
of Washington astronomy professor Bradley Hammermaster told KIRO
Radio a team was being assembled to head for an area where the
meteor was believed to have hit, but that call appeared to be a
hoax, Smith said."

The story added, "No one by the name of Hammermaster is known to
the astronomy department, and the description given by the
caller to the station of the object - an automobile-sized piece
of a small car from a piece of the larger Trilene meteor - was
clearly bogus."


Joe Strupp jstrupp.nul is senior editor
for E&P.









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                 Re: Portuguese Air Force On Alert Over UFO

From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan.nul>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:30:20 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:52:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Portuguese Air Force On Alert Over UFO


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 13:06:44 -0400
>Subject: Portuguese Air Force On Alert Over UFO Sighting

>Source: Space War

>http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040603120319.975iwhmk.html

>06-03-04

>WAR.WIRE

>Portuguese Air Force On Alert Over UFO Sighting

>Lisbon (AFP)--The Portuguese airforce has been on alert since
>late Tuesday, when several authorities and witnesses reported
>seeing a luminous unidentified flying object, the national press
>reported.

<snip>


Hi List Members,

Yes, we confirm the sighting across Spain and Portugal, largely
from SE to NW.

Madrid saw the bright light as well as well southern Galiza on
the Spanish/Portuguese border.

The Portuguese Air Force is sending all the reports to us at the
CTEC and we are now finishing a short inquiry to send the
people.

We have some great problems to solve, such as large time
differences among the reports - almost one hour from
the beginning - around 23:00 to the last, around 23:47.

We are looking at NORAD data about space-junk but for now the
case reminds us of two major events of large spatiality and
duration: the 19/6/76 with Capt. Eloi, and the 15/7/79 case,
also with dozens of witnesses from south to north.


Greetings,

Joaquim Fernandes
CTEC
University Fernando Pessoa
Porto







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #385

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 06:21:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:56:36 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #385


Alfred's Odd Ode #385 (June 4, 2004)

Bigotry disgusts me. It's a bane on humankind. It's at the root
of all that's wrong; a rot that fills our minds. It presupposes
honesty; it's ignorance extant! Bigotry insults the sense of
where one's really at. Bigotry belies good sense, has something
less than heart, and hardens ones insentience to its paucity of
smarts.

Bigotry's a liar, false witness will it bear, and it proves it
has no conscience living lies without a care. Authoritarian,
inflexible, and dogmatic when it's wrong, it has practiced,
flawlessly, malfeasance all along. Masquerading as the measure
of a way to live ones life, it weaves a cloth of misery and
contributes to our strife.

It keeps us from reality, obscures a ready truth, and cuts the
nose off faces like it's found its only use. It foments a
resentment, provokes a _just_ contempt, and fuels a detestation
on its opening attempt. It dulls the wit, betrays the trust, and
breaks the ties that bind, as is usual with intolerance from a
less than open mind.

Bigotry is why we fail. Bigotry? Defeat! Bigotry is where we
lose. Bigotry? Conceit! It's a limiter of wisdom as perception
is decreased. It's all the wrong ideas and its ethics are
diseased. It's bigotry that turns back clocks to suit an
arbitrary so just a few can profit on the misery of many.

It's lack of understanding and the conflict that must bring.
It's terror in our futures! It's an awful... loathsome thing. It
prostitutes our honor. It increases our travail. Bigotry offends
the soul like Christ's three nine-inch nails. Bigotry lacks all
respect. Bigotry's despised. Bigotry is at the source of _all_
that cheats and lies!

alienview.nul


The first thoughts expressed from our tinhorn lapdog media
regarding the Mexican FLIR UFO sightings in March was born of
sneering disrespect, laughing dismissal, and a reflexive bigotry
refined in 100 years of social hijacking, corporate
manipulation, and cultural conflictedness.  Bigotry, again, went
largely unchallenged.

The bleached neo-aristocracy concocting, nurturing, and
otherwise maintaining this bigotry looks down its nose at the
rest of the world, and through the aforementioned corrupt
media's unceasing propaganda facilitates the generation... of
generation after generation of _new_ bigots. It's the American
way.

To be "black" was to get back and to be "brown" was an
invitation out of town, or how else does one explain the very
real difference between the United States comparatively closed
_southern_ border when contrasted with the more open _northern_
one? And no, I don't hate America; I just think she's better
served by reflective and thoughtful criticism than she is by
reflexive and thoughtless adulation. Question my patriotism,
please. I'll eat your literary face...

The days are over when we can look around the world and see a
'superiority' born of what has been proffered to us by
conflicted agencies, suspicious institutions, and appointed
governments. The people south of our border cannot be dismissed
as taco-bending siesta takers sleeping off their latest peasant
banquet of rice, beans, and tequila -- ignorant and credulous
savages seeing angels and UFOs... or living hand to mouth in
non-awareness and intellectual squalor (...as is subtly
suggested by our official media and stealthily practiced by
ourselves!). We dishonor, humiliate, and _betray_ ourselves (in
the long run), not to mention THEM... to perpetuate these
egregious unspoken myths.

We are talking about human beings, reader, located immediately
south of a dry dusty border - credible persons like ourselves
with their own prerequisites, predilections, and prerogatives
... intelligent and educated people, forthright and deliberate
people... smart, focused, and courageous people. Indeed, this is
exactly what was demonstrated in the recorded behavior of the
intrepid pilots with regard to the Mexican UFO FLIR case!

I was a professional pilot for many years, reader. I trained,
and was trained by, the absolute best, achieved all the highest
ratings available... like IP (instructor pilot) SIP
(standardization instructor pilot) and IFE (instrument flight
examiner). I had an 'experiential' 'PhD' in professional
aeronautics and aviation systems management. I flew as Aircraft
Commander in combat, served in line aviation units in
supervisory positions, was the Senior TAC Officer at the Army's
only Warrant Officer Candidate School, and finally ended my
career as a military aviator evaluating candidate aviators for
an aviation career track. I was the aviation _judge_, ladies and
skeptibunkies, for many years. Verily.

The Mexican pilots in that aircraft, from what I have seen and
heard thus far... were top freaking drawer! They were models of
courage... just being out there to perform their duty (!)...
forgetting that they encountered something decidedly off the
'menu' of what they were, already, bravely looking for... drug-
runners, something a little dodgy to begin with...

The bravery they displayed was nothing short of exemplary! They
found the grit, gravitas, and sizable cahones to laugh, however
nervously, abruptly _surrounded_ by the highly strange! Still,
under extreme duress and beyond duty's call -- they functioned.
With precision, calmness, and proficiency they continued to do
their jobs. In a position to know, I can report that it just
doesn't _get_ any better than that. _Yea_ and verily!

I'd like to think that _I_ would have been as brave and
professional as these men were in the performance of their duty.
 I would like to think that I could have been as cool and
practiced as they were, undeniably, during this entirely out of
the box (...and far reaching!) affair. But... I don't know. I
don't know.

It remains that these Mexican pilots were, though. Indisputably,
they are on record and laboriously translated by John Velez
among others, as such. And, in as much as they provided no self-
humiliating ammunition (...absolute ly zero in this writer's
professional opinion...), they are just the thing to obviate the
ignorant and _baseless_ bigotry that is entertained by those
north of their border, and fanned by that duplicitous popular
culture for them... about their (ongoing!) UFO sightings,
courage to be interested in those UFOs, and then, with real
guts, their reports on same.

America? We _can_ (and better!) take the lesson!


Sur valiente hecho pozo de los amigos de la frontera! Le saludo!

Pardon my bad Spanish... Read on!


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!



"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                     UFO Sighting In Spain And Portugal

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 07:18:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 09:01:02 -0400
Subject: UFO Sighting In Spain And Portugal


Source: Agence Fax Press
Date: 06.05.04

Spain: Luminous Object Over Galicia And Portugal

Jose Angel Docobo, director of the Ramon Maria Aller
Astronomical Observatory in Santiago de Compostela, stated today
that the unidentified luminous object seen Tuesday over
different parts of southern Galicia was almost certainly "a
cosmic rock".

According to Docobo, early signs point to the fact that the
phenomenon was caused by a "bolide, a natural object" although
this cannot be said with certainty. The Observatory notes that
no atmospheric penetration by an object of that type had been
expected, but it would not be the first time such a thing occurs
unexpectedly. Jose Angel Docbo is convinced that coming hours
will reveal the precise nature of the phenomenon responsible for
sightings among numerous residents of southern Galicia around
midnight yesterday. The Observatory is in contact with a number
of experts in the field to seek a definitive explanation to the
events.

The likeliest possibility, says Dacobo, is that it was a natural
object "with a rather even trajectory", since eyewitnesses
claiming to have seen it reported [the object] was following an
ascending path. In any event, the Observatory's director has not
dismissed the possibility that the strange lighs could be space
junk or even some military experiment. The Guardia Civil
received up to nine phone calls on Tuesday night from southern
Galicia reporting the sighting - all of them around 12:30 a.m..
According to the accounts, the object "was as bright as an
airplane" but changed intensity, and lef t trail similar to that
of a rocket during its ascending trajectory.

Moreover, AENA (Aeropuertos Espanoles y Navegacion Aerea)
reported that it has no evidence of any incidents over Galicia
last night. The aviation agenciy reproted that the Vigo Airport
is closed at that time of night but that air traffic continues
over the area, involving airliners crossing the airspace in
question and the possibility that private planes are also flying
in the vicinity.

The strange phenomenon was also seen by numerous eyewitnesses in
Portugal, especially in the north, according to that country's
press. Diario de Noticias reports that the Firefighting and
Civil Defense services received phone calls reporting a "large,
intense white light with smoke."

The unidentified luminous object was seen as the same time as in
Galicia, at 11:30 p.m.in Portugal and from locations throughout
Portuguese territory, such as Penafiel, Vendas Novas, Evora,
Algarve and Setubal. For the moment, Portuguese authorities do
not know what could be the cause for the odd sighting in the
skies.

================================================================

Translation (C) 2004. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez









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                   Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 14:59:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 06:55:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Miller


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:41:20 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Sonora California 04-31-04

>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:55:47 -0700
>>Subject: Sonora California 04-31-04

>>HBCC UFO Note: I received some video footage which was taken in
>>the Sonora, California area. The footage is nothing short of
>>amazing. I will be posting it to my site as soon as the internet
>>clip is ready. The video footage will show how dangerous these
>>unknown objects can be, as the object filmed in the footage I
>>have is "clearly" maneuvering near a passenger Jet Airliner. No
>>bird, no balloon as a few out there would have us believing this
>>object is. This object can dart around the sky at an incredible
>>rate of speed coming to a dead stop. It makes "U" turns, moves
>>diagonally. This footage is a must see and will be available as
>>soon as the internet clip ready. So stayed tuned for an amazing
>>20 seconds of UFO footage.

>I examined a 10 second clip of this video of an aircraft with
>contrail that you sent to Jeff Rense. The unknown object comes
>into view and remains for less than this time. Based on this
>footage alone, how did you come to the conclusion that this
>unknown object was clearly maneuvering dangerously close to the
>jet airliner? Since we do not know the size of this unknown
>object to reasonably estimate its distance from the observer(s),
>we cannot rule out a bird or balloon as the correct explanation.
>Considering the erratic flight of this unknown object, the
>changes in its reflective(?) brightness and the fact that it is
>closer to the observer(s) than the jet airliner (this object is
>clearly visible at one point when it passes in front of the jet
>contrail), I would say that a bird is the most likely answer to
>this latest video of UFO.

>Unless we see the entire video (not just a few seconds) and look
>for similar unknown objects or birds flying in other parts of
>the sky, we will never for sure. So we either do nothing more
>and pass this case on to posterity as a UFO or do a little more
>critical and objective evaluation which may reasonably identify
>it as an IFO such as a bird.

>If we are to convince others, including our governments, of the
>reality and seriousness of UFOs and that they were not something
>that flew through our skies in the past, we must present much
>better evidence than this. UFO videos and pictures such as these
>are what some people, such as UFO skeptics/debunkers, would like
>to promote and see more of so to discredit ufology and dampen
>further interest in this field. By investigating all UFO cases
>but showcasing the truly unknown ones, we take precautions from
>unwittingly helping our critics!


Nick,

While I acknowledge it's not the most exciting bit of UFO
footage ever seen, and what evidence there is is hardly
conclusive, I rather feel you too have somewhat rushed your
conclusions. Do you know of a bird, even with a tail wind up
it's tush, that can fly faster than an airliner, even at take
off speed? And even allowing for the athletic abilities of our
feathered friends, I've never seen a bird veer off vertically
quite like that one did.

And while airplanes hitting birds have caused countless
fatalities and crashes over the years, I've never known a bird
approach a plane in the inquisitive manner that one did, not
with all the engine noise 'n all. Of course, he might have been
looking to get laid and mistook the plane for a feathered
colleague but I don't think even birds are that stupid.


Stuart Miller







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   Jun > Jun 5

             Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:27:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 06:59:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 14:57:16 -0300
>Subject: Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>>From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:07:44 EDT
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>>Source: CNN
>>http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/06/03/meteorite.washington.ap/index.html

>>06-03-04
>>Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>>SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- Bright flashes and sharp booms were
>>reported in the skies over the Puget Sound area early Thursday,
>>and experts said a meteor or falling "space junk" may have been
>>the source.

<snip>

>>Ralph Gaume of the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C.,
>>said it could have been a meteor, but another possibility would
>>be "space junk" such as spent rocket engines or satellites
>>falling from Earth orbit.
>
>What a maroon. Maybe it was a meteorite or something as PO Davis
>suggested. But Ralph Guame of the U.S. Naval Observatory in
>Washington, D.C., couldn't check their database to see if it was
>man-made space junk before dazzling us with his "expertize"?


Good point, as usual, Don.

For what it's worth, when objects enter the atmosphere at either
cosmic (as with meteoroids) or earth-orbit velocities (as with
re-entering earth satellites), bright explosions, per se, are
more usually caused by stony meteoroids exploding due to high
dynamic pressure inducing rapid pulverization and
disintegration, while re-entering earth satellites usually break
up more slowly into an increasing number of incandescent (or at
least the air ahead of them is incandescent due to the formation
of a high-temperature plasma) pieces, without a lot of extreme
light flash.

So, I think it most likely that what was seen over Washington
state was a meteor flash produced by sudden disintegration of a
meteoroid, rather than a re-entering earth satellite.  If, that
is, the reports I have read faithfully described what was seen
and heard.

A re-entering satellite usually display a wider range of colors
(due to diverse satellite components) than do most meteors.  I
didn't notice a wide range of colors being mentioned - again
favoring the meteor explanation.

Furthermore, if it had been a re-entering satellite, I suspect
we would have already been told so by NORAD.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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   Jun > Jun 5

              Kittanning's Mothman Link Lives On For Residents

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:02:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 08:46:47 -0400
Subject: Kittanning's Mothman Link Lives On For Residents


Source: Pittsburgh Live

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/leadertimes/s_197312.html


06-04-04

Market Street Metamorphoses

Leader Times - Kittanning, PA, USA

... Equipment left behind in the Rosebud building was actually used to
create a diner in the building that served as a scene in "The Mothman
Prophecies" in late.....







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                Re: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations

From: Mike Hallal <mikehallal.nul>
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:09:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 08:49:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:30:55 -0400
>Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:30:55 -0400
>Subject: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations Lacking


>Source: The Las Vegas Mercury

>http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2004/MERC-Jun-03-Thu-2004/24005082.html

>06-03-04

>Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations Lacking In Mexico UFO Case

>By George Knapp

<snip>

>Mexican defense officials ordered a hush-hush study of the
>incident. They spent five weeks trying to figure out what had
>happened but couldn't come up with any explanation for what had
>been seen by radar, FLIR, cameras and eyewitnesses. The best
>they could do was  to conclude the UFOs were solid objects of
>unknown origin and that they had flown along with the C26A
>under what appeared to be intelligent control.

<snip>

Is there a published "study" we can look at? An official press
release? Have Mexican defense officials actually said they
"conclude the UFOs were solid objects of unknown origin"?

>The encounter occurred
>at 11,000 feet an hour before sunset and in clear weather.

<snip>

>Herrera
>theorized that the UFOs were electrical flashes, and AP went
>with the story, ignoring the fact that this incident occurred in
>a cloudless sky and that it lasted for more than 15 minutes. Las
>Vegas physicist Dr. Eric Davis spent six years studying ball
>lightning and wrote a paper about it for Air Force Materiel
>Command at Edwards Air Force Base, where Dr. Davis worked for a
>time. Simply put, there is no way that ball lightning could be
>responsible, Davis says. Ball lightning occurs during storms,
>not in cloudless skies.

<snip>

While no "storms" were reported, aren't we seeing big fair-
weather clouds all thru the FLIR video?

>Besides, the sensors on the plane revealed the objects to be
>solid, with definable parameters.

<snip>

Again, is this established, and if so, what are the "definable
parameters"?

--

Mike Hallal

--







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   Jun > Jun 5

                             Six Days In Roswell

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:32:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:32:57 -0400
Subject: Six Days In Roswell





Source: G4 Tech TV

http://www.g4techtv.com/show_schedule.aspx?show_key=48

Six Days in Roswell (episode 102)
UFO sightings. Alien abductions. UFO-shaped pizzas. Alien
cookies. UFO burgers. Alien bingo. Flying saucer pancake eating
contests. A UFO haircut. A guy who's never left Minnesota.

Sunday June 6

12pm ET/9am PT

-----

http://www.g4techtv.com/episode.aspx?episode_key=1629

Six Days in Roswell (episode 102)
UFO sightings. Alien abductions. UFO-shaped pizzas. Alien
cookies. UFO burgers. Alien bingo. Flying saucer pancake eating
contests. A UFO haircut. A guy who's never left Minnesota.


UFO sightings. Alien abductions. UFO-shaped pizzas. Alien
cookies. UFO burgers. Alien bingo. Flying saucer pancake eating
contests. A UFO haircut. A guy who's never left Minnesota.

Sound crazy? No, really, he's never left Minnesota!

Welcome to Roswell, N.M., during the 50th anniversary
celebration of the (alleged) UFO crash and subsequent government
cover-up. From the filmmakers who brought us "Trekkies" comes a
new docucomedy that will help all of us get in touch with our
inner alien.

"Six Days in Roswell" documents the encounters of Minnesotan
Richard Kronfeld (you may remember him as the guy from
"Trekkies" who built his own "Star Trek" props) as he travels to
Roswell and spends (you guessed it!) six days there exploring
and searching for answers.

Richard is on a quest to learn everything about alien abductions
and how he might get himself abducted. He talks with locals,
abductees, and alien fanatics, visits the "crash site" and UFO
Expo, and plays with a few alien dolls and toy spaceships along
the way. Top experts in the field are featured.

UFO or weather balloon? Aliens or parachute drop? Whether or not
you're a believer, after watching "Six Days in Roswell" you may
just find yourself craving an alien road trip to this quirky
town.

The truth is out there! Here are some websites that might help
you on your quest.

More information on Roswell

* 'Six Days in Roswell' official site
  Visit the official movie site to learn more about the movie
  and read an interview with filmmaker Roger Nygard.

* Monarch Films
  Buy your own copy of the full version of "Six Days in Roswell"
  here after you watch it on G4techTV.

* Roswell UFO Festival
  Experience the unknown during the annual Roswell UFO Festival.
  It's usually held during the first week of July, and details for
  the 2004 celebration are coming soon.

* International UFO Museum & Research Center
  When in Roswell visit the place that claims "The Truth is
  Here." The International UFO Museum & Research Center website
  comes complete with a "Sightings Report Form" you can fill out.


Experts featured in 'Six Days in Roswell'

* Whitely Strieber, abductee and best-selling author

* Dennis Balthaser, Roswell investigator and ufologist

* Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist, author, and original
  civilian investigator of the Roswell Incident

* Donald R. Schmitt, author and ufologist

* Deborah Lindeman, certified registered clinical hypnotherapist
  who works with those who have had alien contact or have been
  abducted

* Retired Command Sgt. Maj. Robert O. Dean, 40 years of research
  in the UFO field

* Budd Hopkins, author, UFO abduction researcher, and founder of
  the Intruders Foundation - a UFO Abduction Research
  Organization

* Attorney Peter Gersten, founder and executive director of
  Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS)






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   Jun > Jun 5

                   Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 02:18:25 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:36:31 -0400
Subject: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists?


Briefly folks,

Am asking if all of you who do interviews for TV/film news and
documentaries have contact publicists.

I for one would like a list as I've been fortunate of late to
have old colleagues in film/TV/news re-aquaint.

One pal is an Emmy Award winning documentarist and I'm going to
egg him on to do a UFO documentary.

If he goes for it I'll at least have a list of contact info from
you all.

In addition, other pals in the industries mentioned are asking as
well because of the recent events in Ufology. I know a ton of
big journalists that have suddenly and suprisingly become quite
more amicable toward the subject.

I wonder why? :)

Best,

Greg







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                Re: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 08:25:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:41:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations


>From: Mike Hallal <mikehallal.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:09:55 -0400
>Subject: Re: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations Lacking

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:30:55 -0400
>>Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 07:30:55 -0400
>>Subject: Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations Lacking

>>Source: The Las Vegas Mercury

>>http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2004/MERC-Jun-03-Thu-2004/24005082.html

>>06-03-04

>>Knappster: Usual Scientific Explanations Lacking In Mexico UFO Case

>>By George Knapp

><snip>

>>Mexican defense officials ordered a hush-hush study of the
>>incident. They spent five weeks trying to figure out what had
>>happened but couldn't come up with any explanation for what had
>>been seen by radar, FLIR, cameras and eyewitnesses. The best
>>they could do was to conclude the UFOs were solid objects of
>>unknown origin and that they had flown along with the C26A
>>under what appeared to be intelligent control.

><snip>

>Is there a published "study" we can look at? An official press
>release? Have Mexican defense officials actually said they
>"conclude the UFOs were solid objects of unknown origin"?

>>The encounter occurred
>>at 11,000 feet an hour before sunset and in clear weather.

><snip>

>>Herrera
>>theorized that the UFOs were electrical flashes, and AP went
>>with the story, ignoring the fact that this incident occurred in
>>a cloudless sky and that it lasted for more than 15 minutes. Las
>>Vegas physicist Dr. Eric Davis spent six years studying ball
>>lightning and wrote a paper about it for Air Force Materiel
>>Command at Edwards Air Force Base, where Dr. Davis worked for a
>>time. Simply put, there is no way that ball lightning could be
>>responsible, Davis says. Ball lightning occurs during storms,
>>not in cloudless skies.

><snip>

>While no "storms" were reported, aren't we seeing big fair-
>weather clouds all thru the FLIR video?

>>Besides, the sensors on the plane revealed the objects to be
>>solid, with definable parameters.

><snip>

>Again, is this established, and if so, what are the "definable
>parameters"?


With all respect, I think the answer to that question can be
measured in how much relief one feels, individually, if one
finds that the parameters _are_ 'indefinable' and natural
plasmid discharges from obvious clouds _did_ account for the
inexplicable recordings... forgetting for a moment those who
might be disappointed at same.....

But it remains; who is the explorer and who avoids exploration?
Who is content to watch campfire shadows on cave walls and who
looks for the mouth of the cave? How much is intellectual
prudence and how much is intellectual timidity - even cowardice
or bigotry?

For my part. I've lined up a bona fide FLIR expert (...an
extremely sober and credible one at that, talking hardware,
software, development, evolution, and employment...) to look at
the complete footage as soon as Errol shoots me a copy. I'll be
letting y'all know what he/she thinks...


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net
...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







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   Jun > Jun 5

                  UFO Review - issue 2, June 2004 - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:34:18 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:43:09 -0400
Subject: UFO Review - issue 2, June 2004 - Miller


Issue two of UFO Review is now available at:

http://www.uforeview.net . It's still free to download.


Stuart Miller







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             Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 07:40:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:40:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? - Hatch


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 02:18:25 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists?

>Briefly folks,

>Am asking if all of you who do interviews for TV/film news and
documentaries have contact publicists.

>I for one would like a list as I've been fortunate of late to
>have old colleagues in film/TV/news re-aquaint.

>One pal is an Emmy Award winning documentarist and I'm going to
>egg him on to do a UFO documentary.

>If he goes for it I'll at least have a list of contact info
>from you all.

>In addition, other pals in the industries mentioned are asking
>as well because of the recent events in Ufology. I know a ton of
>big journalists that have suddenly and suprisingly become quite
>more amicable toward the subject.

>I wonder why?

- - -

Hello Greg:

Half a century ago my pal up the street had a cousin who could
tap dance, but I think she died. Her name was Sally.

Too bad, she had nice legs.

- Larry










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   Jun > Jun 6

                  Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 20:01:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:47:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Sonora California 04-31-04 - Stanford


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 14:59:18 +0100
>Subject: Sonora California 04-31-04

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:41:20 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Re: Sonora California 04-31-04

>>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:55:47 -0700
>>>Subject: Sonora California 04-31-04

>>>HBCC UFO Note: I received some video footage which was taken in
>>>the Sonora, California area. The footage is nothing short of
>>>amazing. I will be posting it to my site as soon as the internet
>>>clip is ready. The video footage will show how dangerous these
>>>unknown objects can be, as the object filmed in the footage I
>>>have is "clearly" maneuvering near a passenger Jet Airliner. No
>>>bird, no balloon as a few out there would have us believing this
>>>object is. This object can dart around the sky at an incredible
>>>rate of speed coming to a dead stop. It makes "U" turns, moves
>>>diagonally. This footage is a must see and will be available as
>>>soon as the internet clip ready. So stayed tuned for an amazing
>>>20 seconds of UFO footage.

>>I examined a 10 second clip of this video of an aircraft with
>>contrail that you sent to Jeff Rense. The unknown object comes
>>into view and remains for less than this time. Based on this
>>footage alone, how did you come to the conclusion that this
>>unknown object was clearly maneuvering dangerously close to the
>>jet airliner? Since we do not know the size of this unknown
>>object to reasonably estimate its distance from the observer(s),
>>we cannot rule out a bird or balloon as the correct explanation.
>>Considering the erratic flight of this unknown object, the
>>changes in its reflective(?) brightness and the fact that it is
>>closer to the observer(s) than the jet airliner (this object is
>>clearly visible at one point when it passes in front of the jet
>>contrail), I would say that a bird is the most likely answer to
>>this latest video of UFO.

>>Unless we see the entire video (not just a few seconds) and look
>>for similar unknown objects or birds flying in other parts of
>>the sky, we will never for sure. So we either do nothing more
>>and pass this case on to posterity as a UFO or do a little more
>>critical and objective evaluation which may reasonably identify
>>it as an IFO such as a bird.

>>If we are to convince others, including our governments, of the
>>reality and seriousness of UFOs and that they were not something
>>that flew through our skies in the past, we must present much
>>better evidence than this. UFO videos and pictures such as these
>>are what some people, such as UFO skeptics/debunkers, would like
>>to promote and see more of so to discredit ufology and dampen
>>further interest in this field. By investigating all UFO cases
>>but showcasing the truly unknown ones, we take precautions from
>>unwittingly helping our critics!

>While I acknowledge it's not the most exciting bit of UFO
>footage ever seen, and what evidence there is is hardly
>conclusive, I rather feel you too have somewhat rushed your
>conclusions. Do you know of a bird, even with a tail wind up
>it's tush, that can fly faster than an airliner, even at take
>off speed? And even allowing for the athletic abilities of our
>feathered friends, I've never seen a bird veer off vertically
>quite like that one did.

>And while airplanes hitting birds have caused countless
>fatalities and crashes over the years, I've never known a bird
>approach a plane in the inquisitive manner that one did, not
>with all the engine noise 'n all. Of course, he might have been
>looking to get laid and mistook the plane for a feathered
>colleague but I don't think even birds are that stupid.


Stuart,

As Nick clearly pointed out, there is nothing in the video that
suggests his hypothesized bird is at the distance of the
aircraft. Why not read and digest what Nick said rather that
shoot at a straw man. (Personally, I suspect, judging from the
type of motion recorded, that the 'object' is a relatively
nearby butterfly or some flitting insect.)

>"I've never known a bird approach a plane in the inquisitive
>manner that one did, not with all the engine noise 'n all."?

Clearly, Nick did not propose that the hypothesized bird was
anywhere near the aircraft. I can assure you that Nick knows
that birds cannot fly at the altitude at which an aircraft
leaves that substantial a condensation wake. He was suggesting a
bird much nearer to the camera. LOL! Show me any bird that can
approach an aircraft flying at 10,000 meters or so. The air is
much too thin up there for avian survival, and the temperature
far too cold.

As to the "inquisitive manner" you seem to insist upon,
referring to what you interpret as a reactive behavior by
whatever produced the anomalous image, that is a highly
speculative interpretation, with nothing in the film to confirm
it. It did not appear to 'pace' the aircraft at any point, as
one would think it might do if it were truly "inquisitive". And,
as Nick pointed out, we have no index of object distance and,
hence, even size.

To try to get anything much out of a video that poor is, IMO,
tantamount to trying to read tea leaves. In short, one gets
about as much out of it as one imagines into it.

Your comments, aside, I confess to being puzzled at how Nick
could say:

>>we cannot rule out a bird or balloon as the correct
>>explanation.

If there were winds erratic enough to make any balloon do that
kind of maneuvering in such a short time, some most
extraordinary clear-sky turbulence would necessarily have been
involved.

If you want to argue against Nick's bird hypothesis, Stuart,
deal with the relatively nearby bird to which he referred. The
shape changes and reflectance changes of the 'object' across
time do not match any model I can conceive of that would be
produced by a bird doing those maneuvers. It would have to be a
very fast bird, too.

Something like a small white butterfly fluttering by, too close
to be completely in focus? Yes. A small butterfly can easily do
that much maneuvering in the time involved, and the maneuvering
often looks very much like that.

Probably the greatest value in this video is that what people
perceive in it can give us caution about how much people's minds
can do to warp perceptions not made from high enough above their
field of dreams to distinguish dreams from reality.

Please don't take that personally, Stuart. I mean it in the most
general sense.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery












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   Jun > Jun 6

                     New Entry For SKEPTIC Bibliography

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 23:52:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:56:41 -0400
Subject: New Entry For SKEPTIC Bibliography


Source: CSICOP/SKEPTIC

http://www.csicop.org/bib/666

-----

Idiot Proof: Deluded Celebrities, Irrational Power Brokers,
Media Morons, and the Erosion of Common Sense

Francis Wheen

http://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/publicaffairsbooks-cgi-bin/display?book=158648
2475

2004, PublicAffairs; 336p.
anti-science, astrology, creationism, newage, prophecy, psi,
quackery, UFO

[Reviewed by Rob Hardy
 robhardy.nul]

Wheen skewers nutty management consultants, psychic - and
astrologer-consulting politicians, Christian and Muslim
fundamentalists, and just about anyone who prominently goes
astray from Enlightenment ideals.

Wheen shoots fish in a barrel, but these are fish that deserve
extinction.

Nostradamus, newspaper horoscopes, Enron, New Age, and
postmodern trendies are all here.

The Cult of Diana is remembered with acerbity; one of London's
airports risked being renamed Diana Airport, for "The People's
Princess" and devotee of colonic irrigation.

A feng-shui consultant hired by the British Labor government to
improve housing estates gave the invaluable lesson that red and
orange flowers would reduce crime, "...and introducing a water
feature would reduce poverty."

Science only gives partial truths and must always be checked for
its own prejudices or adherence to tradition. But it gives a lot
better answers than are being dished out by his targets here.

Wheen's book is hilarious, but it is the hilarity of a
thoughtful man indignantly enjoying the foolishness of his
fellows, and enjoying bursting them for the benefit of an
audience. Let us hope that the audience is a huge one.


Visit the full bibliography at:

http://www.csicop.org/bibliography/

Please consider submitting an entry yourself.

Taner Edis
SKEPTIC bibliographer

-----

--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress."
Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul






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   Jun > Jun 6

             When Even Mathematicians Don't Understand The Math

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 23:56:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:59:20 -0400
Subject: When Even Mathematicians Don't Understand The Math


Soruce: The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/25/science/25math.html?ex=1086899617&ei=1&en=e84a
89f7178d16c9

05-25-04

When Even Mathematicians Don't Understand the Math

By Susan Kruglinski


To most of us, smudgy white mathematical scrawls covering a
blackboard epitomize incomprehensibility. The odd symbols and
scattered numerals look like a strange language, and yet to read
them, neurologists tell us, we would have to use parts of our
brains that have nothing to do with what we normally think of as
reading and writing.

Math and physics writers are the interpreters of this
unconventional language. Their books, when written for a popular
audience, may reach thousands of intrepid readers who barely
made it past Algebra II. The abstract concepts they translate
seep into the mainstream through books like "The Golden Ratio"
(its ideas are featured in "The DaVinci Code") or "The
Millennium Problems." Sometimes they even make the best-seller
lists.

And yet much of this subject matter confounds even
mathematicians and physicists, as they use math to calculate the
inconceivable, undetectable, nonexistent and impossible.

So what does it mean when mainstream explanations of our
physical reality are based on stuff that even scientists cannot
comprehend? When nonscientists read about the strings and branes
of the latest physics theories, or the Riemann surfaces and
Galois fields of higher mathematics, how close are we to a real
understanding? Despite the writer's best metaphors and
analogies, what is lost in translation?

"It is a bit like trying to explain football to people who not
only have no understanding of the word 'ball,' but are also
rather hazy about the concept of the game, let alone the
prestige attached to winning the Super Bowl," wrote Dr. Ian
Stewart, professor of mathematics at the University of Warwick
in England, in an email message.

Asked if there exist mathematical concepts that defy explanation
to a popular audience, Dr. Stewart, author of "Flatterland: Like
Flatland, Only More So" replied: "Oh, yes - possibly most of
them. I have never even dared to try to explain noncommutative
geometry or the cohomology of sheaves, even though both are at
least as important as, say, chaos theory or fractals."

Dr. Keith Devlin, a mathematician at Stanford University and
author of "The Millennium Problems," which tries to describe the
most challenging problems in mathematics today, admits defeat in
his last and most impenetrable chapter, where he is forced to
interpret something called the Hodge conjecture. He suggests to
readers, "If you find the going too hard, then the wise strategy
might be to give up."

The Hodge conjecture deals not only with cohomology classes, a
complicated group construct, but involves algebraic varieties,
which Dr. Devlin describes as generalizations of geometric
figures that really do not have any shape at all. "Those
equations represent things that not only can we not visualize,
we can't even imagine being able to visualize them," he said.
"They are beyond visualization." This difficulty points to a
math truism that ultimately framed his entire project.

"What the book was really saying was, 'You're not going to
understand what this problem is about as a layperson, but
neither will the experts,' '' he said, adding, "The story is
that mathematics has reached a stage of such abstraction that
many of its frontier problems cannot be understood even by the
experts."

At the same time, higher math is used to decipher the existence
and composition of the world. But how can it make sense that a
nearly unintelligible language can explain the physical world?

In his densely packed, and best-selling, tome on physics,
"Fabric of the Cosmos," Dr. Brian Greene, a Columbia University
physicist, distills the dizzying calculations of quantum physics
and string theory, invoking images of flowing time and textured
space that should not necessarily be taken literally. "These
translations by design suppress a huge amount of technical
machinery that underlies the everyday English description," he
said. "I would say that there's absolutely always something lost
in the translation."

Dr. Devlin noted that the familiar model of the atom - a nucleus
of protons and neutrons orbited by electrons - was long
obsolete. "Yet physicists can successfully use that image of the
solar system model with its rotating billiard balls," he said.
"It's the same with string theory. I mean, give me a break -
 they're not little loops of string! For one thing, they're in
11 dimensions."

Like Dr. Devlin, Dr. Greene is straightforward about the
impossibility of explaining certain abstractions. But he thinks
there is enough graspable material in the mathematics of physics
to depict just about anything. About string theory, for example,
he said: "The equations that govern a violin string are pretty
close to the equations that govern the strings we talk about in
string theory. So although the notion of strings is
metaphorical, it's pretty close."

He added, "I suspect that the overarching aim of most every
mathematical study can be described, even if you can't get to
the guts."

But if science writers described breakthroughs in genetics or
zoology in terms of overarching aims and not concrete facts,
readers would question the foundations of that field. That lay
readers and scientists alike accept that they will never wrap
their heads around much of higher math is evidence that it is a
world unto itself.

In fact, it is difficult to explain what math is, let alone what
it says. Math may be seen as the vigorous structure supporting
the physical world or as a human idea in development. Some
mathematicians say it is not in the same category as biology,
astronomy or geology. While those fields have empirical systems
of experimentation and discovery, some might say mathematicians
rely on something more intuitive.

"It isn't science," said Dr. John L. Casti, the author of "Five
Golden Rules: Great Theories of 20th-Century Mathematics and Why
They Matter." "Mathematics is an intellectual activity - at a
linguistic level, you might say - whose output is very useful in
the natural sciences. I think the criteria that mathematicians
use for what constitutes good versus bad mathematics is much
more close to that of a poet or a sculptor or a musician than it
is to a chemist."

And just as one cannot define what it is that makes a moving
phrase played on a violin moving, the essence of the superb
equation may also be ineffable.

This makes for a frustrating human dilemma. Our brains have the
ability to compute the abstract mathematics they created to
construct theories about reality, and yet they may never be
smart enough to comprehend those theories, let alone explain
them.

Despite his and his colleagues' tireless efforts, Dr. Greene
concedes that this paradox ultimately makes sense.

"Our brains evolved so that we could survive out there in the
jungle," he said. "Why in the world should a brain develop for
the purpose of being at all good at grasping
the true underlying nature of reality?"

---

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company


-----

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress."
Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul






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   Jun > Jun 6

                 Interview With Chilean Alien' Photographer

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 09:19:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:17:20 -0400
Subject: Interview With Chilean Alien' Photographer



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
June 6, 2005


Source: Las Ultimas Noticias (Santiago de Chile)
Date: Saturday, June 5, 2004

Interview With Alien Photographer

**He photographed the "alien" in Parque Forestal**
**German Pereira: "One can see something walking and has arms
and a head, but I don't know what it is."

Text by Luciana Lechuga; photo: Alvaro Duran



"I have no opinion on the nature of what came out on the photo,
or else I'll just keep it to myself," said German Pereira.

The engineer is startled by the stir caused by his snapshot and
says that the has received phone calls from Spain, Colombia and
Argentina.

Pereira, a civil engineer, says that he had to turn off his cell
phone in order to concentrate on work, since the instrument did
not stop ringing after it was learned that he was the
photographer of the surprising iamge of an alleged alien in
Parque Forestal.

He's only been at his new job for a week and his co-workers
don't know that he has been on television and in newspapers, and
has recieved calls from Colombia, Argentina and Spain, whose
news media want to know more about his story.

"I have no knowledge of this, but from what Erick Martinez (of
the Corporacion de Investigacion de Fenomenos Aereos - CIFAE)
tells me, it seems that it is one of the clearest photos ever
taken. It is surely for this reason that it has had such an
impact", he speculated.

Pereira, 33, is a graduate of the University of Concepcion and
came to Santiago a little over a year ago. He is an amateur
photographer and owns a Kodak DX6490 digital camera. On Monday,
May 10 he had the afternoon off, so he got on his bicycle with
the camera and went off to Parque Forestal.

He took ten photos and was 'rewarded' with the image of a tiny
grey being walking between two Carabineros (State Police) on
horseback. This is the image that has gone around the world
thanks to websites on paranormal phenomena.


- What was it about that shot that drew your attention?

- Look, first I took a photo of the Carabinero patrol that was
coming over the nearby bridge. Then, since I was riding my bike,
I headed for the northern sector. I took another photo of them
from that point, and that's the one on the Internet.

- Did you see the alien on the [digital camera's] screen?

- No, I saw it the next day, when I downloaded the photo.

- And what did you think?

- I was impressed, that's all. I saw it with a colleague and we
found it odd. I thought that it was the same impression everyone
else who saw the photo must have had. It's rather shocking. The
fact of the matter is that I didn't see it when I took the
picture.

- Do you recall seeing anything odd at the time?

- No, nothing at all. And I also asked myself that when I
checked the photo, I tried to recall what was there. It would
have been ideal to have seen it when the photo was taken, by I
saw nothing strange. I was interested in taking a photo of the
mounted patrol.

- If it was an alien it should have come out in the other photos
you took that day.

- Yes, it could have come out, but it appears in that one only.
Now, the other (photos) are from other areas.

- Had you ever had any similar experience?

- In fact I'd never had any experience of this type, nor was I
very involved in UFO or alien matters. I don't know it that's
the true nature of the matter, and that's why I stepped back
from it and turned it over to people who deal with the subject.
All I know is that it isn't a photographic error. I also know
that it isn't a hoax, because I'm not behind it. The photo is
still there, still inside the camera. I haven't wanted to erase
it.

- And why's that?

- I want the Kodak people to see it. In fact, I have to phone
them.

- How did your photo reach the Internet?

- What happened is that on Tuesday, when I downloaded it to my
computer, I mailed it to a friend in Concepcion. He sent it to
the people of CIFAE and to another two parties. That very same
day Erick and I met up, because they were the first to believe
in the photo.

- And what's your opinion of all this?

- I have no opinion on the nature of what came out in the photo,
or else I'll just keep it to myself. In any event, one can see
something that appears to walk, has a arms and a head, but I
don't really know what it is."

- Are you into UFOs? Have you had "close encounters"?

- No, no sightings. I don't lose any sleep over the subject, but
I find it interesting. And with this stuff the same, if not more
so.

- Have your co-workers bothered you?

- No. I think that maybe now the will. The day I took the photo
I was with another company. I've only been here a week. They
don't even know me.


Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Liliana Nunez O.






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   Jun > Jun 7

                     Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:13:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 07:57:16 -0400
Subject: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?


Hello,

Only just read transcript of Art Bell's 1997 Area 51 call which
was apparently silenced by a double zap: 1) the satellite comms;
2) of Art's analog engineering line(s).

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m15-011.shtml

Does anyone know _real_ final outcome of that?

Is the caller alive and well and still enjoying the joke? Or was
he really silenced? [Apparently call ended (off-air) in a
`scream']

cheers
Ray D


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








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   Jun > Jun 7

                       SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:02:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:02:11 -0400
Subject: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale




Source: The Santa Cruz Sentinel

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2004/June/06/local/stories/03local.=
htm

06-06-04

Alien Research Group Puts Property Up For Sale
By Kurtis Alexander
Sentinel Staff Writer


Had a group of alien researchers pushed a little harder, the
Soquel Hills might have been the best spot on earth to look for
extraterrestrial life.

A proposal to build one of the world=92s largest radio telescopes,
designed in part to detect alien messages, on a 130-acre plot
above Soquel fell through in the late =9290s =97 after permitting
problems and access snarls became apparent. The venture was
moved to the Mount Lassen area, 75 miles east of Redding, and a
unique alien-detecting scope is scheduled for completion there
in three years.

Now, the Soquel property, still owned by research group SETI, or
the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, Institute, has
been all but forgotten by space researchers and is up for sale.

"It would have been fun to have had (the telescope) in Soquel,"
said Aptos resident Frank Drake, a founding member of SETI and
one of the world=92s foremost scholars on the search for
extraterrestrial life. "(Now) the property is a financial
resource for us."

SETI, which is based in Mountain View and employs more than 100
scientists on a roughly $8 million annual budget, came upon the
land in 1996. It was willed to SETI by the late Bernard Oliver,
a former vice president of research for Hewlett-Packard and
longtime supporter of SETI=92s 20-year, and so far unsuccessful,
mission to discover life on other planets.

The land, incidentally, had been in the Oliver family since
1875. The signature of Civil War Gen. Ulysses Grant attends the
deed.

SETI is asking $5.1 million for the property =97 undeveloped
rolling meadows and oak woodland with views of the Monterey Bay
=97 to help sustain the group=92s search for extraterrestrial
intelligence.

 Drake, like most of his scientific method-going colleagues at
SETI, is not to be confused with the UFO buffs who watch X-Files
and flock to places like Roswell, N.M., looking for bright
lights.

"None of those reported events has provided strong evidence (of
extraterrestrial life)," said Drake, 74, who taught astronomy at
UC Santa Cruz for 12 years and before that at Cornell University
in New York for 20 years. "I don=92t believe in abductees or UFO
landings."

That=92s not to say Drake doesn=92t think such things could happen.

"The probability is that if we search enough stars, we=92ll find
(alien life)," he said, adding that the search, statistically
speaking, shouldn=92t take much more than 20 years.

SETI has been relying heavily on a 1,000-foot-diameter radio
telescope in Puerto Rico, the world=92s largest, to scour the
skies for alien communications =97 be it radar, television signals
or telemetry between spacecraft. The new $42-million scope near
Mount Lassen, an assortment of about 350 20-foot radio dishes
that SETI will be able to use year-round, will add new hope to
the group=92s quest, Drake said.

Asked what alien life would look like when, and if, SETI finds
it, Drake said: "They may resemble our design ... stand upright,
eyes on the head, be able to manipulate tools."

But he added that life on other planets may have evolved well
beyond human life and carry more efficient features.

"It would be a big help to have four arms. Imagine how you could
carry groceries and open the door at the same time," he
remarked.

SETI=92s Soquel property, with two parcels already sold in recent
years, now amounts to 105 acres between Old San Jose Road and
Rodeo Gulch Drive.

"From its Civil War roots to its SETI chapter, the land=92s
history alone is remarkable," said real estate agent Jeffrey
Canepa, who is representing the property with Thunderbird Real
Estate. "But then there=92s the property itself."

Kurtis Alexander is the Sunday editor. He can be reached at
kalexander.nul








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              Chile: "As A Photographer I Don't Believe It's A

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 09:29:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:05:09 -0400
Subject: Chile: "As A Photographer I Don't Believe It's A



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
June 6, 2004

Source: Las Ultimas Noticias (Santiago De Chile)
Date: Saturday, June 5, 2004

Enrique Sepulveda: "As a photographer I don't believe it's a trick"


The Corporacion para la Investigacion Ovni de Chile (CIO)
received the image of the hypothetical alien two weeks ago. Its
director, Enrique Sep=FAlveda, says: "we receive many, many
photos. Out of that amount nearly five to ten percent deserve
research, and the rest are obvious hoaxes. People like to draw
attention to themselves." Although Sep=FAlveda explained that
digital images are not a good point of reference, the photo fell
into the reduced percentage of images worthy of further
analysis.

"As a photographer I don't believe it's a trick. I think it's an
image taken by sheer chance of another element formed by the
sweep (movement) of the image. Nothing more." That was this
expert's conclusion. He worked 27 years for the Chilean Air
Force in Aerial Photometry. "It surely shows a strange figure.
An alien, I don't think so; a child, neither. We have files on
strange apparitions, but never elements like such a tiny ET,
because the creature would measure only 50 centimeters in
height. Perhaps it could be catalogued with the Greys, who are
large headed, have long extremities, and have a greyish-green
color. But there is no definition in this regard, either," he
added.


Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Liliana N=FA=F1ez and Christian Quintero









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                Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? -

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:17:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:08:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 02:18:25 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists?

Quite frankly, Greg, we don't need an ignorant producer to come
forward and produce a UFO documentary. We've had far too many of
these already.

What we need is a good ufologist to write a good informative
script which can be executed. Several such proposals exist and
are of excellent quality.

As one friend told me, it takes about five years to realize what
"good" ufology is and what is slock. We don't have five years
for such a learning curve.

To repeat a couple of oft told stories: Barry Greenwood was
interviewed by producers over and over again for hours. So what
appears on the screen? Nothing that he said, just his hands
turning page after page in some of his UFO newspaper scrap book.
He supplied the one complete gun camera film that we have been
able to get ahold of, the 1953 Luke AFB film, but what did the
producer use it for, a visual lead in for the progream but with
no explanation to the viewers of what they were seeing.

(Scholars have not tapped the rich field of UFO history which
says much about the Cold War, developments of weapons systems
and psycology. The UFO saga over and over again intersects the
developments in intelligence gathering, secret weapons research,
ballooning, national defense and interest in the search for
extraterrestrial life. Two scholars did visit Barry Greenwood to
explore such possibilities and were completely overwhelmed, by
the enormous amount of material available, well over 100,000
newspaper clippings, tens of thousands pages of government
documents, thousands of case files, hundreds of UFO newsletters
and hundreds of book. Seeing Greenwood's house stuffed full of
such material, and being told this was but the tip of the
iceberg, they withdrew. One wrote a typical sneering article for
"Intelligence and National Security" magazine. You can lead
scholar to learning, but you cannot make him think!)

Can a backer be enlisted for such projects? Well, that is
doubtful during this lull period.  However, that seems the way
to go.

I don't see any ground swell of sudden interest in ufology.



Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947








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             Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

From: Peter Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:18:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:11:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:27:34 -0400
>Subject: Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 14:57:16 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>>>From: Louise Lowry <SHnSASSY1.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:07:44 EDT
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>>>Source: CNN
>>>http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/06/03/meteorite.washington.ap/index.html

>>>06-03-04
>>>Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>>>SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- Bright flashes and sharp booms were
>>>reported in the skies over the Puget Sound area early Thursday,
>>>and experts said a meteor or falling "space junk" may have been
>>>the source.

<snip>

>>>Ralph Gaume of the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C.,
>>>said it could have been a meteor, but another possibility would
>>>be "space junk" such as spent rocket engines or satellites
>>>falling from Earth orbit.

>>What a maroon. Maybe it was a meteorite or something as PO Davis
>>suggested. But Ralph Guame of the U.S. Naval Observatory in
>>Washington, D.C., couldn't check their database to see if it was
>>man-made space junk before dazzling us with his "expertize"?

>Good point, as usual, Don.

>For what it's worth, when objects enter the atmosphere at either
>cosmic (as with meteoroids) or earth-orbit velocities (as with
>re-entering earth satellites), bright explosions, per se, are
>more usually caused by stony meteoroids exploding due to high
>dynamic pressure inducing rapid pulverization and
>disintegration, while re-entering earth satellites usually break
>up more slowly into an increasing number of incandescent (or at
>least the air ahead of them is incandescent due to the formation
>of a high-temperature plasma) pieces, without a lot of extreme
>light flash.

>So, I think it most likely that what was seen over Washington
>state was a meteor flash produced by sudden disintegration of a
>meteoroid, rather than a re-entering earth satellite.  If, that
>is, the reports I have read faithfully described what was seen
>and heard.

>A re-entering satellite usually display a wider range of colors
>due to diverse satellite components) than do most meteors.  I
>idn't notice a wide range of colors being mentioned - again
>avoring the meteor explanation.

>urthermore, if it had been a re-entering satellite, I suspect
>e would have already been told so by NORAD.

>Ray Stanford

>"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of >trifles." --
>Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery


To the List:

Based on the dozen, or so, reports NUFORC has received about the
flash over Seattle at 02:40::14 hrs. (local) on June 3rd, I am
reasonably certain that the cause of the event was a meteor.
 Based on several reports from seemingly good witnesses, I
conclude that the terminal burst occurred much lower than the 27
mile elevation reported by the University of Washington Seismic
Laboratory.  Several witnesses near the terminus of the object's
flight indicated a lag time of only 5-10 seconds between the
major flash, and the sonic report, indicating a slant distance
of 1-2 miles from their locations.

We have processed many reports of 1) meteors, 2) re-entering
space debris, and 3) (apparent) incandescent UFO's, and although
those types of events have certain similarities, they have
enough dissimilarities, I believe, for a skilled and
knowledgeable interviewer to be able to distinguish between
them...in most cases.

I think the most useful, and telling, characteristic is angular
velocity of the luminous body.  Re-entering space debris begins
its period of incandescence while traveling at orbital velocity,
i.e. 18,000 (statute) miles an hour, or 5 miles per second.
 Moreover, it is at least 100 miles above the surface when it
begins its period of incandescence.  Hence, most observers
report that multiple, individual, glowing fragments move across
the sky at approximately the angular velocity equal to that of
an orbiting satellite.  Because of the altitude of the glowing
mass, it usually is reported from a distance of a few hundred
miles on either side of the ground track.  I can't remember a
case in which a witness has reported seeing space debris from
more than a few hundred miles from the ground track, and the
distant observer usually report that the "objects" were seen
moving more or less parallel to the horizon.

Meteors, on the other hand, usually are traveling at 25-50 miles
per second at the beginning of their entry into the atmosphere,
so the reports indicate a much higher angular velocity of the
fireball than is the case for space debris.  In addition,
dramatic meteors usually are seen from a much greater distance
than space debris is seen, and although a meteor can strike the
atmosphere at any angle, they rarely are reported to travel
"horizontally." ((I ignore here the parallax problem.))  Another
aspect of a bright meteor is that it will illuminate the ground,
or a sheet of cloud, more or less homogeneously, as viewed from
ground level, whereas space debris usually does not generate
enough illumination to generate reports of significant surface
or cloud illumination.

In the case of suspected UFO-related events, even if the object
of interest generates significant luminescence, the event is
reported from only tens of miles distance from the epicenter, or
ground track, of the event, not hundreds of miles, i.e. the
object is closer to ground level.  There is one notable
exception to this statement, however, in the dramatic
(suspected) UFO-related event over Ontario and western
Pennsylvania on Friday, August 25, 1995, which was seen from
observers on the ground near New York City, and which was
captured by a television news team.  One witness in west
Cleveland thought he had just witnessed the nuclear explosion of
the nuclear power plant in that city.

Applying all of the above criteria, I conclude that the display
over Seattle on the morning of June 3rd was caused by a typical
bolide.


Peter Davenport
NUFORC









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                     Re: Alien Reported In Syria - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:41:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:13:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Reported In Syria - Hall


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 08:50:17 -0400
>Subject: Alien Reported In Syria

>Source: Infobae.Com

>http://www.infobae.com/

>Date: June 5, 2004

>Syria: Witnesses Report Seeing Alien

>The entity was red in color and had a "peasantish" look. It was
>seen in an olive grove near Al-Naiisia in Central Syria,
>according to eyewitness reports.

>The state newspaper Teshreen cites the eyewitness accounts of
>seven workers who claimed having seen " a strange creature that
>remained seated for a while before taking running strides to
>climb up a tree."

>According to the peasants, the apparition came to an end when
>"the creature rushed skyward with incredible swiftness after
>leaving a wake of smoky white bubbles."

>The journal went on to explain that authorities mandated an
>inspection of the site after the event became known, but nothing
>abnormal was found.

>Source: http://www.infobae.com/

>Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
>Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
>Special thanks to Christian Quintero, Planeta UFO.

Two questions: Why "alien?" What do they drink (or smoke) in
Syria?

 - Dick









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                               The UFO "Myth"

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:34:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:18:27 -0400
Subject: The UFO "Myth"


FWD [forteana] re: The UFO "Myth"

What a mix-up of conflated terms!

[Don't forget a myth is usually either:

1) made-up to explain a mystery or
2) remnant folk-knowledge of a real event]

Only Dr Leslie Ellen Jones has so far attempted to clarify
everybody else's confused use of misunderstood terms and
unwarranted assumptions.

Leslie Ellen Jones wrote:

"The "myth" in the sense of a cosmological narrative is that
there is intelligent life on other planets, whose technology is
more advanced than ours at least to the extent of being able to
fly to other planets before we were able to make it to our own
moon. It thereby questions the dominant cosmological myth of our
planet, namely, that a single deity (be it Yahweh, God, or
Allah) created the world and gave humankind a unique position
over all other forms of life."


Everyone else makes basic error of confusing a phenomenon with
surrounding assumptions.

So the phenomenon of a "unidentified flying object", now
surrounded by mythic assumptions, _cannot_ itself be mythical
since the unadorned phenomenon offers no `explanation' of
anything and no `knowledge' of anything.

However the surrounding assumptions, of hoax, of evil abducting
greys, of altruist Sirius? folk, of Reptiloids already ruling on
Earth, of fairies or little people - _do_ fulfill those `myth'
requirements.

But whether any or all are `made-up explanation' (including `hoax
myth') or `real folk-knowledge' - remains to be seen.

Cheers (for clarity's sake)

Ray D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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              Re: When Even Mathematicians Don't Understand The

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:19:24 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:23:06 -0400
Subject: Re: When Even Mathematicians Don't Understand The


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 23:56:31 -0700
>Subject: When Even Mathematicians Don't Understand The Math

>Source: The New York Times

>http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/25/science/25math.html?ex=1086899617&ei=1&en=e84
a89f7178d16c9

>Despite his and his colleagues' tireless efforts, Dr. Greene
>concedes that this paradox ultimately makes sense.

>"Our brains evolved so that we could survive out there in the
>jungle," he said. "Why in the world should a brain develop for

>the purpose of being at all good at grasping
>the true underlying nature of reality?"

Regarding the above statement from Dr. Greene, I find it
interesting how a "deterministic" sort of thinking, in regard to
biological evolution, is still encountered, especially in those
who ought to know better. Greene states, "Our brains evolved so
that we could survive out there in the jungle." This is
essentially no different than the Larmarckian assertion that
giraffes have long necks because they needed them to get at the
higher leaves, and thus, through the process of stretching and
straining for the higher leaves, they mysteriously communicated
this need to their genes, leading to the birth of giraffes with
longer and longer necks.

The correct view is not that "our brains evolved so that we
_could_ survive out there in the jungle," but rather "our brains
evolved, and this _happened_ to be advantageous to us surviving
and reproducing out there in the jungle" (and savannah, I should
add). The distinction seems subtle, and some might put Greene's
statement off to semantics, but I personally don't think this is
the case. The former statement is unabashedly deterministic; it
asserts that the need for a larger brain caused it to happen.
Which is NOT what natural selection says about this.*

This being the case, there is no immediately obvious reason why
a brain which allowed behaviors advantageous to survival and
reproduction shouldn't also be good at fathoming the ultimately
reality. I think the hangup here is that modern, materialist
science is stuck in this very rigid paradigm which defines
"thinking" as "that which occurs in the frontal lobes, and is
good for helping us plan strategies for knocking off large,
dangerous animals, and for helping us figure out (occasionally)
our taxes." I think some might take definite issue with the
assertion that our brain isn't good for determining the "true,
underlying nature of reality" (some Buddhists, for example). Of
course, such understanding might only be comprehensible through
direct experience; it might not be possible to express it well
in words, mathematically, or otherwise. Which brings us back to
the conventional materialistic point of view: "if I can't get it
under the lens (so to speak) then it doesn't exist."

Which brings us around again to "science versus the saucers..."
:-)

Best,

Rod Brock

*For a brief outline of the elements of Darwinian Evolution,
see:

http://www2.bc.edu/~strother/GE_146/lectures/3.html

=====
THE MAGONIA EXCHANGE LIST
Collecting and sharing accounts
of anomalous aerial phenomena
from antiquity up to 1947.
http://nocturnal_lights.tripod.com/magoniax
http://anomalies.bravepages.com








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                        SETI: Popular Misconceptions

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:35:03 -0400
Subject: SETI: Popular Misconceptions


I'm passing along the URL to a recent post from my blog,
Posthuman Blues.

http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_06_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#108658
603099224977

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

New book: "After the Martian Apocalypse"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/074348293X









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                              FOIA Help Needed

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 07:59:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:42:45 -0400
Subject: FOIA Help Needed


Would anyone on this List be able to help me with some info for
a FOIA request I am filing to WPAFB.

On the basis of several newspaper articles I have, it seems
there were numerous UFO sightings in and near the Dayton, Ohio
vicinity during the midwest UFO Wave of October 1973. One
article - without giving any detail - explains that the Dayton,
Ohio airbase had denied reports of "UFO's sighted over the base
itself..."

A few weeks ago I requested records from WPAFB over this issue,
asking for daily logs, morning reports, after action reports and
teletype message traffic entering and exiting the specific
organization(s) responsible for base security during the
October, 1973 time period.

In theory, this is a good place to start as any alert security
personnel, one would assume, would take note of any intrusions
over the base by unidentified aircraft and log such incidents.

I did receive a response from the FOIA, but they want me to be
more specific regarding the I.D. of the security organization(s)
that were operative at the time. I think they could help me out
with this themselves, but apparently they won't.

Enclosed below will be 1). my initial FOIA and 2). a response
from FOIA officer Mary Anne Walter requesting clarification of
my request. I had hoped that my initial request was specific
enough and that I could avoid referencing "UFO sightings" as the
basis for my inquiry, but they understandably want to know more
about what I am after. They also want me to identify the
specific detachment or agency identification name or code word
that would have represented the security police for the base in
'73.

Could anyone on this list help by thinking of better wording for
this request that could move the process along and that they
would take seriously? And more importantly, would anyone have
any idea how I could put an I.D. on the relevant agency for the
security police for the base in '73?

The present-day organization responsible for base security might
not necessarily be applicable to the security police department
for the base in '73, as they often shut down and re-name
organizations on a routine basis - perhaps even as a method of
FOIA obstruction but I certainly do not know for sure.

Thanks,

Kenny Young

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo

--- --- -- -- -- --


From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
To: ufo.nul
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 16:57:30 -0400
Subject: E-FOIA Submission to Dept. of AF Re: WPAFB security, 1973


DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE
May 9, 2004

Dear FOIA Manager,

This is a non-commercial request, under the provisions of the
Freedom of Information Act.

I am conducting historical research on the basis of newspaper
articles in The Cincinnati Post and other articles pertaining to
security situations at WPAFB in Dayton, Ohio in October of 1973.
I respectfully request a copy of all documents pertaining to
DAILY LOGS, MORNING REPORTS, INTELLIGENCE-ANALYSIS REPORTS,
AFTER ACTION reports and teletype message traffic EXITING and
ENTERING the security police and security division of WRIGHT
PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE for the time frame of October 3 through
October 20, 1973.

I also will accept and pay all charges up to twenty-five ($25)
for the requested material. My fee status category is non-
commercial, and is requested for not-for-profit use. Any amount
over this, please contact me at the postal mailing address as
follows: Kenny Young, 1680 Emerald Glade Lane, Cincinnati, OH
45255.

Thank you very much for your time, and I look forward to your
response.

Sincerely,

Kenny Young
1680 Emerald Glade Lane
Cincinnati, OH 45255

= = = = = =


From: Walter MaryAnn Civ 88 CG/SCCMF <MaryAnn.Walter.nul>
To: ufo.nul <ufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:32:33 -0400
Subject: FOIA Request 04-346MA


Dear Mr. Young,

Your request has been referred to The Freedom of Information
Office, WPAFB, OH, as indicated in the 20 May 04 letter to you
from 11 CS/SCS (FOIA). The request number assigned to your case
is 04-346MA. Please refer to that number in all future
correspondence regarding this case.

Further clarification is needed in order to process your
request. Your request does not reasonably describe the record(s)
sought. The information you are asking for is too broad. Please
narrow your request to ask for specific articles instead of
"articles pertaining to security situations at WPAFB in Dayton,
Ohio in October 1973." Please specify the organization(s) you
are referring to when you are requesting "daily logs, morning
reports, etc.."

Please be advised that if we do not receive a clarified request
by 23 June 2004, no further action will be taken on this
request. I can be reached at (937) 904-8187 or fax (937) 656-
4212.


Sincerely,

Mary Ann Walter
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Management Assistant
Management Services Branch
Base Information Management Division
88CG/SCCMF
2435 5th St, Bldg 676
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base








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             Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:13:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:28:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk


>From: Peter Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:18:25 -0700
>Subject: Re: Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

<snip>

>>>>Source: CNN
>
>>>http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/06/03/meteorite.washington.ap/index.html

>>>>06-03-04
>>>>Washington Flashes May Be Meteor Or Space Junk

>>>>SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- Bright flashes and sharp booms were
>>>>reported in the skies over the Puget Sound area early Thursday,
>>>>and experts said a meteor or falling "space junk" may have been
>>>>the source.

><snip>

>>>>Ralph Gaume of the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C.,
>>>>said it could have been a meteor, but another possibility would
>>>>be "space junk" such as spent rocket engines or satellites
>>>>falling from Earth orbit.

>To the List:

>Based on the dozen, or so, reports NUFORC has received about the
>flash over Seattle at 02:40::14 hrs. (local) on June 3rd, I am
>reasonably certain that the cause of the event was a meteor.
> Based on several reports from seemingly good witnesses, I
>conclude that the terminal burst occurred much lower than the 27
>mile elevation reported by the University of Washington Seismic
>Laboratory. Several witnesses near the terminus of the object's
>flight indicated a lag time of only 5-10 seconds between the
>major flash, and the sonic report, indicating a slant distance
>of 1-2 miles from their locations.

>We have processed many reports of 1) meteors, 2) re-entering
>space debris, and 3) (apparent) incandescent UFO's, and although
>those types of events have certain similarities, they have
>enough dissimilarities, I believe, for a skilled and
>knowledgeable interviewer to be able to distinguish between
>them...in most cases.

You are quite right.

>I think the most useful, and telling, characteristic is angular
>velocity of the luminous body. Re-entering space debris begins
>its period of incandescence while traveling at orbital velocity,
>i.e. 18,000 (statute) miles an hour, or 5 miles per second.
> Moreover, it is at least 100 miles above the surface when it
>begins its period of incandescence. Hence, most observers
>report that multiple, individual, glowing fragments move across
>the sky at approximately the angular velocity equal to that of
>an orbiting satellite. Because of the altitude of the glowing
>mass, it usually is reported from a distance of a few hundred
>miles on either side of the ground track. I can't remember a
>case in which a witness has reported seeing space debris from
>more than a few hundred miles from the ground track, and the
>distant observer usually report that the "objects" were seen
>moving more or less parallel to the horizon.

That is generally correct. The usually greater (than earth
satellites) earth-encounter velocity of meteoroids begins
producing luminance appreciably higher than we see in re-
entering satellites as an effect of that higher (cosmic)
velocity. There are some rare exceptions, including, in theory,
some meteoroids knocked up from our moon, orbital velocities of
which can be lower compared to most other meteoroids, relative
to earth's orbital motion.

A short course in meteoritics for the few on this list who are
not familiar with the terminology: Until an object of cosmic
origin falling to earth (whether of cometary, asteroidal,
planetary, or lunar source) is on the ground, it is a meteoroid,
and not a meteor or a meteorite. It is the luminous EFFECT
produced during hypersonic atmospheric passage of the meteoroid
which is properly called a meteor, and NOT the body producing
it. After the former meteoroid (which was producing the luminous
meteor during flight) is on the ground, it is properly termed a
meteorite.

>Meteors, on the other hand, usually are traveling at 25-50 miles
>per second at the beginning of their entry into the atmosphere,
>so the reports indicate a much higher angular velocity of the
>fireball than is the case for space debris. In addition,
>dramatic meteors usually are seen from a much greater distance
>than space debris is seen, and although a meteor can strike the
>atmosphere at any angle, they rarely are reported to travel
>"horizontally." ((I ignore here the parallax problem.)) Another
>aspect of a bright meteor is that it will illuminate the ground,
>or a sheet of cloud, more or less homogeneously, as viewed from
>ground level, whereas space debris usually does not generate
>enough illumination to generate reports of significant surface
>or cloud illumination.

>In the case of suspected UFO-related events, even if the object
>of interest generates significant luminescence, the event is
>reported from only tens of miles distance from the epicenter, or
>ground track, of the event, not hundreds of miles, i.e. the
>object is closer to ground level. There is one notable
>exception to this statement, however, in the dramatic
>(suspected) UFO-related event over Ontario and western
>Pennsylvania on Friday, August 25, 1995, which was seen from
>observers on the ground near New York City, and which was
>captured by a television news team. One witness in west
>Cleveland thought he had just witnessed the nuclear explosion of
>the nuclear power plant in that city.

>Applying all of the above criteria, I conclude that the display
>over Seattle on the morning of June 3rd was caused by a typical
>bolide.

>Peter Davenport
>NUFORC

Excellent work, Peter. Thanks for that insightful update.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 07:08:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:20:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - McCoy


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:13:35 +0100
>Subject: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>Only just read transcript of Art Bell's 1997 Area 51 call which
>was apparently silenced by a double zap: 1) the satellite comms;
>2) of Art's analog engineering line(s).

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m15-011.shtml

>Does anyone know _real_ final outcome of that?

>Is the caller alive and well and still enjoying the joke? Or was
>he really silenced? [Apparently call ended (off-air) in a
>'scream']


Hello All, Ray,

With anything to do with Mr. Bell, who IMHO, is partly
responsible for the deaths of the poor saps who believed Comet
Hale-Bopp contained a spacecraft or some such and nything to do
with Lazar, Strieber and others has to be taken with a huge
grain of salt - preferably with a good Margurita.

Thanks to Royce Meyers III, there is a good filter for Bell's
BS.


GT McCoy







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                Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:23:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:23:37 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Stanford


Source: The Santa Cruz Sentinel

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2004/June/06/local/stories/03local.htm

06-06-04

Alien Research Group Puts Property Up For Sale
By Kurtis Alexander
Sentinel Staff Writer


<snip>

"It would have been fun to have had (the telescope) in Soquel,"
said Aptos resident Frank Drake, a founding member of SETI and
one of the world's foremost scholars on the search for
extraterrestrial life.

<snip>

 Drake, like most of his scientific method-going colleagues at
SETI, is not to be confused with the UFO buffs who watch X-Files
and flock to places like Roswell, N.M., looking for bright
lights.

"None of those reported events has provided strong evidence (of
extraterrestrial life)," said Drake, 74, who taught astronomy at
UC Santa Cruz for 12 years and before that at Cornell University
in New York for 20 years. "I don't believe in abductees or UFO
landings."

<snip>

Ray Stanford's comments on the above, with some comments to
Frank Drake:

If the quote is accurate, it is interesting that Frank Drake
threw in the qualifier "strong" before the word "evidence" in
that last statement. It might be taken to suggest that he
realizes there might be some evidence of extraterrestrial life
in some UFO reports, even though he does not consider it
"strong" evidence.

Naturally, we are assured by the writer, that Drake, "...doesn't
believe in UFO landings".

Of course not. Evidence of such could come dangerously close to
preempting funding for radio-telescopic (SETI) searches for
probably relatively primitive twentieth century type radio
signals by some far away civilization, which search happens to
be Drake's own personal toy and 'field of dreams'. Would any
sensible person donate millions to search for radio signals of
alien life, if science should discover evidence that some kind
of alien life has already found us and arrived here? I suggest
that may be Drake's unconscious (or conscious) fear, regardless
of what the most well-documented, strange, and puzzling UFO
cases may ultimately turn out to have been.

Well, Frank Drake, dream on. Judging from the most credible of
cases reported by some very competent professional scientists
like, e.g., Dr. Peter Sturrock or Dr. Richard Haines, there
might just be more things in heaven and (that are) sometimes on
earth, than are dreamed of in your philosophy, and I suspect
that you have not made any in-depth study of the more
scientifically respectable UFO literature, or you would know
better, even though you seem to pretend to have done so.

In fact, I would bet that you have never interviewed a single
witness in any of the better physical evidence 'UFO landing'
cases, or even talked to pilots involved in the best in-the-air
UFO encounter cases.

Pretense is not becoming to a scientist, no matter from what
figurative ivory tower he preaches skepticism in a manner akin
to some fundamentalist Christian preacher haranguing against the
great age of our planet.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






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                          Secrecy News -- 06/07/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:54:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:04:18 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 06/07/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 51
June 7, 2004


**      1955 CIA BUDGET DISCLOSED
**      HOUSE DEMOCRATS SEEK ABU GHRAIB DOCUMENTS
**      SMALL-SCALE CHEM/BIO TERRORIST ATTACKS (CRS)


1955 CIA BUDGET DISCLOSED

The Central Intelligence Agency budget for fiscal year 1955 was
$335 million, according to newly disclosed classified budget
documents from half a century ago.

The 1955 CIA budget included $225 million for normal operations
"and a contingency reserve of $110 million for unforeseen
emergencies and/or projects which were not planned."

CIA funds are not appropriated directly. The 1955 CIA budget was
concealed within eleven separate line items in the Department of
Defense budget, from which it was transferred to the Agency.

This budget information is still considered "classified" by the
CIA, which adheres to a Cold War information security policy.

The 1955 CIA budget information was described in a May 11, 1954
letter from the CIA to the Senate Appropriations Committee, with
various attachments.

The budget documents were located by Prof. David Barrett of
Villanova University in the course of his archival research for
a forthcoming book on the history of intelligence oversight.

Prof. Barrett generously provided a copy of this material to
Secrecy News. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/budget/cia1955.pdf

For several years, the Federation of American Scientists has
been seeking the declassification of historical intelligence
budget information from 1947 to 1970 in a Freedom of Information
Act lawsuit against the CIA. Last week, coincidentally, the
judge in that proceeding ordered the parties to propose a
schedule for the filing of dispositive motions.


HOUSE DEMOCRATS SEEK ABU GHRAIB DOCUMENTS

The leadership of the House of Representatives has declined to
conduct an investigation into the torture of Iraqi prisoners at
Abu Ghraib prison and related questions about prisoner
interrogation, calling it a distraction from the war on
terrorism.

But even some Republicans are dismayed by what they consider a
dereliction of their duty to conduct oversight.

"We should be doing this directly and bluntly, and in the House
we are not," Rep. Heather Wilson (R-NM) told the New York Times
(06/06/04). "It's been very disappointing to me."

Now House Democratic leaders are moving to fill the oversight
void and they are seeking the cooperation of the White House to
acquire 35 specified categories of documents concerning prisoner
interrogation that they said are needed to conduct a meaningful
investigation.

"We are writing to inform you of our determination to
investigate the prison abuses at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere and to
request your assistance in obtaining key documents," wrote six
senior Democrats in a June 3 letter to President Bush.

The authors, all ranking members of their respective committees,
were Reps. Henry Waxman, John Conyers, David Obey, Ike Skelton,
Tom Lantos and Jane Harman.

See their June 3 letter here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/dem060304.pdf


SMALL-SCALE CHEM/BIO TERRORIST ATTACKS (CRS)

The term "weapons of mass destruction," like "terrorism," is
often used as a rhetorical blunderbuss rather than to achieve
strategic clarity. There are so many qualitatively distinct
technologies and substances that qualify as WMD that basic
differences between threats of global apocalypse and minor
hazards which may result in few or no casualties are obscured.

A new report from the Congressional Research Service attempts to
unpack this loaded term and to evaluate some of its diverse
components, focusing on the potential for small-scale terrorist
attacks involving the use of chemical and biological weapons
(CBW).

The CRS report proposes an analytical framework that considers
the difficulty of manufacturing or acquiring various CBW agents,
the feasibility of using them as weapons, their public health
impact, the availability of medical treatment, and various other
factors.

It promptly becomes clear that not all CBW threats are equal or
equally urgent. The ranking of threats logically implies a
prioritization of needed countermeasures and defenses, and the
beginning of a sensible policy approach.

See "Small-scale Terrorist Attacks Using Chemical and Biological
Agents: An Assessment Framework and Preliminary Comparisons" by
Dana A. Shea and Frank Gottron, Congressional Research Service,
May 20, 2004 (89 pages, 750 KB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32391.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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                 Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:46:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:15:50 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Stanford


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: SETI: Popular Misconceptions

>I'm passing along the URL to a recent post from my blog,
>Posthuman Blues.

>http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_06_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#10865
8603099224977

Thanks for the link, Mac.

I especially appreciate your, "Don't misunderstand; I think
radio-SETI is worth doing. But I find it infinitely depressing
that our self-proclaimed alien 'experts' tend to be among the
most intellectually constipated members of the so-called
scientific community. Drake's SETI isn't science; it's
politically driven fact-management."

I love it:  Intellectually constipated!

Someday a dose of cosmic laxative is going to come along that
will, well, blow those guys out...   :)

Appreciatively,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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             Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:12:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:18:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 07:08:14 -0700
>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:13:35 +0100
>>Subject: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>Only just read transcript of Art Bell's 1997 Area 51 call which
>>was apparently silenced by a double zap: 1) the satellite comms;
>>2) of Art's analog engineering line(s).

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m15-011.shtml

>>Does anyone know _real_ final outcome of that?

>>Is the caller alive and well and still enjoying the joke? Or was
>>he really silenced? [Apparently call ended (off-air) in a
>>'scream']

>With anything to do with Mr. Bell, who IMHO, is partly
>responsible for the deaths of the poor saps who believed Comet
>Hale-Bopp contained a spacecraft or some such and nything to do
>with Lazar, Strieber and others has to be taken with a huge
>grain of salt - preferably with a good Margurita.

Hi G.T.

Was that a yes or a no?

Ray D
(just a seeker after truth)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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                 Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:17:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:30:34 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Ledger


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:23:51-0400
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>Source: The Santa Cruz Sentinel

>http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2004/June/06/local/stories/0-3local.ht
m

>06-06-04

>Alien Research Group Puts Property Up For Sale By Kurtis Alexander
>Sentinel Staff Writer

><snip>

>"It would have been fun to have had (the telescope) in Soquel," said
>Aptos resident Frank Drake, a founding member of SETI and one of the
>world's foremost scholars on the search for extraterrestrial life.

><snip>

>Drake, like most of his scientific method-going colleagues at SETI,
>is not to be confused with the UFO buffs who watch X-Files and flock
>to places like Roswell, N.M., looking for bright lights.

What a load of rubbish. Note this isn't Drake talking but an
uninformed reporter. I urge you all to contact him and set him
straight.

Ask about balanced reporting. After all, we aren't asking for
special treatment, just the right of rebuttle, not uninformed,
kneejerked opinion.

I watch science shows when ever I can find them. And many of
them have been about SETI, with the usual cast. Does that cast
do the same, I wonder, when a decent UFO documentary is on. I
know, some are an acquired taste, however there are good ones.


Don Ledger








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                   Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 20:20:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:32:54 -0400
Subject: Re:  SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Hall


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:46:13 -0400
>Subject: Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: SETI: Popular Misconceptions

>>I'm passing along the URL to a recent post from my blog,
>>Posthuman Blues.

>http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_06_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#10865
8603099224977

>Thanks for the link, Mac.

>I especially appreciate your, "Don't misunderstand; I think
>radio-SETI is worth doing. But I find it infinitely depressing
>that our self-proclaimed alien 'experts' tend to be among the
>most intellectually constipated members of the so-called
>scientific community. Drake's SETI isn't science; it's
>politically driven fact-management."

>I love it:  Intellectually constipated!

>Someday a dose of cosmic laxative is going to come along that
>will, well, blow those guys out...   :)


...and then there are people who, as my father used to say, have
"diarrhea of the mouth."

- Dick










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               Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 20:22:57 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:34:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Hall


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:12:52 +0100
>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 07:08:14 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:13:35 +0100
>>>Subject: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>Only just read transcript of Art Bell's 1997 Area 51 call which
>>>was apparently silenced by a double zap: 1) the satellite comms;
>>>2) of Art's analog engineering line(s).

>>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m15-011.shtml

>>>Does anyone know _real_ final outcome of that?

>>>Is the caller alive and well and still enjoying the joke? Or was
>>>he really silenced? [Apparently call ended (off-air) in a
>>>'scream']

>>With anything to do with Mr. Bell, who IMHO, is partly
>>responsible for the deaths of the poor saps who believed Comet
>>Hale-Bopp contained a spacecraft or some such and nything to do
>>with Lazar, Strieber and others has to be taken with a huge
>>grain of salt - preferably with a good Margurita.
 G.T.

>Was that a yes or a no?

>Ray D
>(just a seeker after truth)


As G.T. suggested, you are not likely to find it (truth) on the
Art Bell Show.

 - Dick









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                Brazilian UFO Magazine Reaches Edition # 100

From: A.J. Gevaerd <Brazilian UFO Magazine" <ufo100.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:52:06 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:46:41 -0400
Subject: Brazilian UFO Magazine Reaches Edition # 100


Brazilian UFO Magazine reaches edition # 100 in June 2004

Varginha Case. After long 8 years, new revelations never
published before about the crash and retrieval of a UFO and at
least two of its occupants in Varginha, January 26, 1996.

Jacques Vall=E9e. Brazilian UFO researchers interview the
scientist, who speaks frankly about the transcendentalism of the
UFO research and what can researchers expect of the phenomena.

Increasing Action. New and astounding cases of UFO observations
and abduction in 2004, in Brazil, indicate greater UFO activity
this year.

Mexico Exclusive: In-depth and complete coverage of the 11 UFOs
footage in Mexico with transcripts of the pilots=92 conversation,
experts' comments and interview with Santiago Yturria.

Landing Traces. New info about old cases makes UFO researchers
turn their attention to revolutionary theories about UFO
activity in Brazil.

Amazon Cases. A survey of contacts involving the Chupa-Chupa
phenomena (1977) and including attacks to victims on river
islands and small communities.

Freedom of Information. Brazilian UFO researchers have already
thousands of signatures in their government petition to disclose
files publicly.

Brazilian UFO Magazine, the longest living newsstand UFO
magazine in the world, founded in 1985 and edited by A. J.
Gevaerd.








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                  Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:23:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 17:48:34 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Velez


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 20:20:35 +0000
>Subject: Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:46:13 -0400
>>Subject: Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions

>>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
>>>Subject: SETI: Popular Misconceptions

>>>I'm passing along the URL to a recent post from my blog,
>>>Posthuman Blues.

>>http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_06_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#108
>>658603099224977

>>Thanks for the link, Mac.

>>I especially appreciate your, "Don't misunderstand; I think
>>radio-SETI is worth doing. But I find it infinitely depressing
>>that our self-proclaimed alien 'experts' tend to be among the
>>most intellectually constipated members of the so-called
>>scientific community. Drake's SETI isn't science; it's
>>politically driven fact-management."

>>I love it: Intellectually constipated!

>>Someday a dose of cosmic laxative is going to come along that
>>will, well, blow those guys out...   :)

>...and then there are people who, as my father used to say, have
>"diarrhea of the mouth."


Hi Dick, Mac,

Mac: Love the 'Post Human Blues'. Always have.

Dick: Your response made me laugh so hard it knocked me clean out
of my chair -and just when I needed a good laugh. Good timing!
Thanx.  <LMAO>


My best to you both,

John








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                Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:46:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:21:35 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:17:13 -0300
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:23:51-0400
>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>Source: The Santa Cruz Sentinel

>http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2004/June/06/local/stories/0-3local.ht
m

>>06-06-04

>>Alien Research Group Puts Property Up For Sale By Kurtis Alexander
>>Sentinel Staff Writer

>><snip>

>>"It would have been fun to have had (the telescope) in Soquel," said
>>Aptos resident Frank Drake, a founding member of SETI and one of the
>>world's foremost scholars on the search for extraterrestrial life.

>><snip>

>>Drake, like most of his scientific method-going colleagues at SETI,
>>is not to be confused with the UFO buffs who watch X-Files and flock
>>to places like Roswell, N.M., looking for bright lights.

>What a load of rubbish. Note this isn't Drake talking but an
>uninformed reporter. I urge you all to contact him and set him
>straight.

>Ask about balanced reporting. After all, we aren't asking for
>special treatment, just the right of rebuttle, not uninformed,
>kneejerked opinion.

>I watch science shows when ever I can find them. And many of
>them have been about SETI, with the usual cast. Does that cast
>do the same, I wonder, when a decent UFO documentary is on. I
>know, some are an acquired taste, however there are good ones.

Hi Don,

I sent a copy of my post on this to the reporter, but I
suspect he's like all too many print journalists: 'yellow-
bellied'. So far there has been no response.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                 Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 18:16:34 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:24:48 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions - Friedman


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:46:13 -0400
>Subject: Re: SETI: Popular Misconceptions

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: SETI: Popular Misconceptions

>>I'm passing along the URL to a recent post from my blog,
>>Posthuman Blues.

>http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_06_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#1
>08658603099224977

>Thanks for the link, Mac.

>I especially appreciate your, "Don't misunderstand; I think
>radio-SETI is worth doing. But I find it infinitely depressing
>that our self-proclaimed alien 'experts' tend to be among the
>most intellectually constipated members of the so-called
>scientific community. Drake's SETI isn't science; it's
>politically driven fact-management."

>I love it:  Intellectually constipated!

>Someday a dose of cosmic laxative is going to come along that
>will, well, blow those guys out...   :)

I keep saying that SETI Stands for Silly Effort To Investigate. I should add
that I am scheduled to appear on Coast to Coast the night of June 22 and I
asked that they ask Seth Shostak or some other SETI Specialist to appear
with me. He had been asked before and declined, but  since Seth and I met on
the QE2
last December (we each gave 3 lectures), I have a slight hope..
In one of my lectures I had pointed out that in Seth's last book
"Cosmic Company" he had asked why aliens haven't landed and how come they
are not seen on radar... obviously he doesn't
know much about UFOs.
Tune in for (maybe) some fireworks.

Stan Friedman
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html







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                          Metallics Found In Coal?

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 05:00:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:27:53 -0400
Subject: Metallics Found In Coal?


Hi Listers,

Wondered if anyone knew of metallic objects found in coal or
metallic residue in the ashes from coal after burning or of
anything strange/unusual embedded in coal.

If I remember correctly there is some mention in books from the
1970's era of these and if anyone can point me to them or any
information at all in this respect it would be greatly
appreciated.

The ramifications of this would indicate, maybe, presence of ET
or ET craft during the Time of the Dinosaurs on Earth and could
be further proof to go along with the Alien footprints found in
the USA also dated from that era.

This request is allied to my own ET abduction story and in
particular an occurrence during the 1960's


Thanks in anticipation,

Colin Stevenson
colsweb.nul








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               Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:06:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:31:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - McCoy


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:12:52 +0100
>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 07:08:14 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:13:35 +0100
>>>Subject: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>Only just read transcript of Art Bell's 1997 Area 51 call which
>>>was apparently silenced by a double zap: 1) the satellite comms;
>>>2) of Art's analog engineering line(s).

>>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m15-011.shtml

>>>Does anyone know _real_ final outcome of that?

>>>Is the caller alive and well and still enjoying the joke? Or was
>>>he really silenced? [Apparently call ended (off-air) in a
>>>'scream']

>>With anything to do with Mr. Bell, who IMHO, is partly
>>responsible for the deaths of the poor saps who believed Comet
>>Hale-Bopp contained a spacecraft or some such and nything to do
>>with Lazar, Strieber and others has to be taken with a huge
>>grain of salt - preferably with a good Margurita.

>Hi G.T.

>Was that a yes or a no?


Hello,all, Ray.

To put it in Tanker Pilot/Firefighter vernacular, not only _no_
but, Hell No!

Bell is a discredited source as are the others I mentioned. This
is my opinion, but I think others will agree.


GT McCoy








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   Jun > Jun 8

                      Skylarks Helped By Crop Circles?

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 08:50:30 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:34:43 -0400
Subject: Skylarks Helped By Crop Circles?


Source: BBC OnLine

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3783491.stm

07-06-04

Skylarks Helped By 'Crop Circles'

Could crop circles hold the key to reversing the drop in
birdlife?

Crop circles could finally have found their niche with news that
leaving fallow patches in cereal fields could help reverse a
decline in birdlife.

Skylark breeding rose nearly 50% when small patches of cereal
fields were left unsown, a two-year study found.

Now farmers are to be offered government subsidies to clear the
areas as part of a conservation push.

And the trials showed that despite a rise in weeds on the unsown
patches, farmers did not lose any yield.

Experts say leaving two small patches bare per hectare could
reverse a 52% drop in skylark numbers since 1970.

Other species

"Crop circles once fascinated the nation; undrilled patches
could be the new phenomenon, and one with a worthwhile legacy,"
said Dr David Gibbons, head of conservation science at the Royal
Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB).

Farmers joining a new scheme in which they are paid =A330 per
hectare of land are likely to be asked to take part.

Environment Minister Elliot Morley said: "I hope farmers across
the country will make the most of these patches so skylarks will
once again become a common sight on British farmland."

Skylark numbers have plummeted by 52% in the UK since 1970

Scientists are also looking at other aspects of nature
conservation on farmland, such as grass margins and weeds as a
food source.

These are expected to help other bird species which have been in
decline, such as the yellowhammer and grey partridge.

The =A33.6m Sustainable Arable Farming For an Improved Environment
(Saffie) project received =A31.5m from the government as well as
cash from the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB),
the Crop Protection Association and Home Grown Cereals
Authority.

Last year a rare bumblebee species was found on a Saffie site.

Jonathan Tipples, chairman of Saffie and a farmer in Kent, said:
"I am delighted that Saffie is demonstrating that farmers can
improve the environment on their farms at no cost to
themselves."








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                Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 6:31:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:41:53 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Aldrich


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:17:13 -0300
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>Source: The Santa Cruz Sentinel

>>http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2004/June/06/local/stories/0-3local.h
tm

>>06-06-04

>>Alien Research Group Puts Property Up For Sale By Kurtis Alexander
>>Sentinel Staff Writer

>>Drake, like most of his scientific method-going colleagues at SETI,
>>is not to be confused with the UFO buffs who watch X-Files and flock
>>to places like Roswell, N.M., looking for bright lights.

>What a load of rubbish. Note this isn't Drake talking but an
>uninformed reporter. I urge you all to contact him and set him
>straight.

<snip>

>I watch science shows when ever I can find them. And many of
>them have been about SETI, with the usual cast. Does that cast
>do the same, I wonder, when a decent UFO documentary is on. I
>know, some are an acquired taste, however there are good ones.


Hi Don,

I think from the record Drake has looked at UFOs. He had
correspondence with McDonald and others on the subject.
Certainly what has been in the press for the last decade would
not give serious people any reason to dig deeper or even become
loosely associated with the UFO movement.

UFO documentaries? Haven't seen many that would pass muster. I
recommended Jack Webb and Col. Colemen's series. What a mistake!
The first show that uses Colemen's own sighting and was
excellent. The rest torture Project Blue Book case files until
they are hardly recognizable. Everything is sensationalized.
Gad, what I mistake I made recommend such stuff.

Pop culture is where UFOs get recognition, any consideration by
High Culture is generally of UFO cults and believers'
gullibility. Just look at recent thesis and dissertations from
graduate candidates. With one or two notable exceptions most are
only interested in strange beliefs associated with UFOs.


Jan Aldrich
Pr






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   Jun > Jun 8

                  Chilean College Students Tape Red Object

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 07:09:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:53:22 -0400
Subject: Chilean College Students Tape Red Object


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
June 8, 2004


Source: Diario La Segunda - Chile
Date: June 7, 2004

College Students Saw Strange Red Object

Three UNIACC students managed to capture red object over the
Malleco viaduct with their camcorder.

TEMUCO -- There was great expectation among residents of the
Collipulli community regarding the experiences of three college
students who claimed having seen and recorded an unidentified
flying object over the Malleco viaduct.

The sighting took place last Saturday and involved Alvaro
Zamora, Sergio Vidal and Cesar Arellano, audiovisual arts majors
at UNIACC who had been in the vicinity of Malleco making a
documentary about the viaduct.Around 18:00 hours, when darkness
began to fall over the area, and as the students waited for a
train to appear to complete their shooting for the day, a
scintillating red object appeared at moderate speed, crossing
the skies in a southward direction. According to local
eyewitnesses, the UFO flew oer the Chiguayhue hills, facing the
viaduct.

"We were able to see it for about 5 minutes," said the students.
"What's odd is that the object neither fell nor landed, and it
vanished behind the hills as swiftly as it appeared."

According to the students, the object moved slowly. "Another
important point is that the UFO suddenly vanished. We thought it
was a meteorite, but we realized that it never descended."  The
sighting was recorded on video cameras and will almost surely be
requested from the students for analytical purposes by Santiago-
based specialists. While the sighting took place, some motorists
traveling along the road pulled over to get a better view of the
strange phenomenon.

The students say that they will keep the tapes in their custody
until they return to Santiago, where they shall examine the
frame by frame. The object is still a source of excitment among
local resident and Chilean ufologists, who maintain that the
area is a sort of "corridor" for mysterious flying objects.

UFO sightings are nothing new in Malleco. This sector of Chile's
9th Region has been classified by specialists as a "UFO transit
corridor", which has been proven by the number of sightings that
have taken place in recent months. Residents of Collipulli and
Victoria have seen strange objects in the sky for which no
scientific explanation can be found. An object similar to the
one seen in Collipulli was reported only a few days ago by
motorists driving toward Victoria from a sector adjactent to
Inspector Fernandez.

=============================================================

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.









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                Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:57:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:57:16 -0400
Subject: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency



Source: Ananova

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_981234.html

06-08-04


European UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency

European UFO fans have devised a currency to show
extraterrestrials that trade between earthlings and ETs is
possible.

Kiril Kanew, who is head of the UFO watchers group Contact, says
they've brought out an "intergalactic currency" called the
galacto.

He said: "We propose that the galacto becomes the official
currency in space."

Kanew, who is also the president of the Bulgarian Foundation for
the Search for Cosmic Life, says the first coins have already
been circulated among ground based ET watchers.

The coins have been inscribed with the word Galactos and the
year 2004.

Kanew and others believe ETs are just waiting for the world to
put an end to its internal disputes before opening trade
negotiations.

"Just imagine you're an extraterrestrial civilisation and you
want to contact a country on earth," said Kanew.

"That would be unimaginable, because all countries have opposing
interests, and there are so many conflicts. The Galactos should
give them a common currency to trade in."








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              Re: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue,  8 Jun 2004 08:07:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:26:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:57:16 -0400
>Subject: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency

>Source: Ananova

>http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_981234.html

>European UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency

>Kiril Kanew, who is head of the UFO watchers group Contact, says
>they've brought out an "intergalactic currency" called the
>galacto.

"Galacto?" Hey, we already have a perfectly good intergalactic
currency, which has been around at least as long as the pulp
sci-fi of the 1930's, and it's called the "Credit". Besides, I
already have enough trouble figuring out the Credit to Quatloo
exchange rate.








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 23

From: John Hayes <John.nul>
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:06:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:29:36 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 23


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 23
June 9, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UFOs PROWL THE NIGHT
SKIES OVER SPAIN

      Spain has had a rash of UFO sightings in recent
weeks.
      On Sunday, May 9, 2004, "Sra. N.M. saw an
unidentified flying object in the skies over Barcelona,"
one of Spain's largest cities, "while in the company of
two of her children."
      "N.M., a criminologist and businesswoman, was driving
along the Casteldefels to Barcelona highway at around
midnight when both she and her children witnessed 'to the
left of the road, that is, toward the interior, away from
the (Mediterranean) beaches, an unidentified object of
considerable size, described as 'a rhomboid with one of
its vertices broken off or truncated,' being an orange
color."
      "The sighting occurred precisely on the stretch of
road between Gava and Vildecans, and the witness contacted
(the paranormal group) Mundo Misterioso in case others had
reported seeing the same phenomenon."
      A week ago, "Jose Angel Docobo, director of the Ramon
Maria Aller Astronomical Observatory in Santiago de
Compostela," in northern Spain, "stated that the
unidentified luminous objects seen Tuesday," June 1, 2004,
"over different parts of southern Galicia (province) was
almost certainly 'a cosmic rock.'"
      "According to Docobo, early signs point to the fact
that the phenomenon was caused by 'a bolide, a natural
object,' although this cannot be said with certainty."
      "The Observatory noted that no atmospheric
penetration by an object of this type had been expected,
but it would not be the first time such a thing had
occurred unexpectedly.  Jose Angel Docobo is convinced
that coming hours will reveal the precise nature of the
phenomenon responsible for sightings many nervous
residents of southern Galicia saw around midnight" on that
Tuesday.
      "The likeliest possibility, says Docobo, is that it
was a natural object 'with a rather even trajectory, since
eyewitnesses were claiming to have seen it reported,' that
the object 'was following an ascending path.'"
      "In any event, the Observatory's director does not
dismiss the possibility that the strange lights could be
space junk or even some military experiment.  The Guardia
Civil (Spain's national police--J.T.) received up to 9
phone calls on Tuesday night from southern Galicia
reporting the sighting--all of them around 12:30 a.m."
      "According to all accounts, the object 'was as bright
as an airplane' but changed intensity and left a trail
similar to a rocket during the ascending trajectory."
      "However, AENA (Aeropuertos Espanoles y Navegacion
Aerea, Spain's FAA--J.T.) reported that so far no evidence
of any incidents over Galicia that night has been
collected.  The (Spanish) aviation agency reported that
Vigo Airport is closed at this time of night, but that air
traffic continues over this area, involving airliners
crossing the airspace in question, and the possibility
that private planes are also flying in the vicinity."
(See the Agence France Presse report for June 2, 2004.
Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Guillermo Gimenez para
estos informes.)



ANOTHER FAYETTE TORNADO

      The Fayette Factor was linked to yet another tornado
last week, this time in Louisiana.
      On Friday, May 28, 2004, three tornadoes touched down
in the Lafayette counties of three separate American
states--Kentucky, Ohio and Indiana.  Fortean researcher
Bill Grimstad has commented on the increased incidence of
tornadoes in places named for the Marquis de Lafayette,
pointing out that "tornadoes, trailer parks and places
named Lafayette or Fayette have a curious affinity for
each other."
      Severe thunderstorms "hit hard and fast in the
Acadiana area" of Lafayette County on Tuesday afternoon,
June 1, 2004, about 10 miles (16 kilometers) southwest of
the city of Lafayette (population 110,257).
      The storm was "dropping quarter-sized hail in the
same area and possibly spawned a tornado" south of Scott,
La. (population 7,870).  (See The Advertiser of Lafayette,
La. for June 2, 2004, "Rain, thunder rumble across
Acadiana area."  Many thanks to Loren Coleman for this
newspaper report.)


LUMINOUS UFO SEEN BY
HUNDREDS IN PORTUGAL

      "According to local Portuguese radio stations,
hundreds of residents were startled by the sight of an
'inhuman light' in the sky over the Algarve in southern
Portugal.  The OVNI (Portuguese acronym for UFO--J.T.) was
seen in several cities of the region but particularly in
Faro."
      "The reports indicated that the OVNI was seen over an
area of 100 to 150 kilometers (60 to 90 miles).  The
object was witnessed between 11 p.m. and midnight on
Tuesday, June 1, 2004.  No structure could be seen around
the light."
      "An unidentified luminous object was seen at the same
time in Spain's Galicia province.  At 11:30 p.m., the OVNI
was seen over Portuguese territory, in places such as
Penafiel, Vendas Novas, Evora, Algarve and Setubal."
      "For the moment, Portuguese authorities do not know
what could have been the cause of the sighting in their
skies."  (See the Agence France Presse report for June 2,
2004.  Muito obrigado a Marcio Vicente Teixeira por eso
caso.)


MYSTERY BOOMS HEARD
IN SOUTH CAROLINA

      "A nearly two-hour search was called off after
residents in McCormick," South Carolina (population 1,489)
"mistook a sonic boom for a plane crash Thursday," June 3,
2004.
      "'We have a lot of military aircraft that fly over
the lake up here running practice drills,' said Chris
Doolittle, emergency services coordinator for McCormick
County along the Georgia state line.  'We did an extensive
search of the area...and have found no aircraft at all.'"
      "People saw a C-130 cargo plane and then heard the
boom, which was actually generated by another jet nearby,'
said Courtney Franchio, a spokesman for Dobbins Air Force
Base," which is located "north of Atlanta."
      "'Someone saw a C-130 in the area, then heard a sonic
boom, so the assumption was a plane crash was occurring,'
she said."
      McCormick, S.C. is on Route 378 approximately 77
miles (123 kilometers) west of Columbia, the state
capital.
      However, in Alpharetta, Georgia (population 34,854),
an eyewitness thinks the mystery booms were made by a UFO.
      On Thursday, June 3, 2004, "I glanced at the window
of my office and observed a white sphere passing below and
at a right angle to a commercial jet," he reported, "The
jet was at cruising altitude (30,000 feet or 9,000 meters-
-J.T.) and heading from the southeast to the northwest.
The sphere was heading from the southwest to the
northeast.  It looked like it was several thousand feet
below the airliner and traveling at about the same speed.
The jet was leaving a short contrail, but the sphere was
not.  I continued to observe the sphere until it
disappeared into the distance."
      Alpharetta, Ga. is 22 miles (35 kilometers) northeast
of Atlanta.  (Many thanks to Daniel Wilson for these
reports.)


MYSTERIOUS LIGHTS, BOOMS
REPORTED IN THE USA'S
PACIFIC NORTHWEST

      "Bright flashes and sharp booms were reported in the
skies over the Puget Sound area" of the USA's Pacific
Northwest "early Thursday," June 3, 2004, "and aviation
officials said a meteor may have been the source."
      "An earlier report on KIKO Radio" in Washington state
"that a meteorite might have hit Chehalis (population
7,057)," a small city about 30 miles (50 kilometers) south
of Olympia, the capital of Washington state, "turned out
to be false, a University of Washington scientist who
specializes in meteorites said."
      "Toby Smith, a lecturer in astronomy, said scientists
are looking at the cause of the skybursts reported over a
wide area at about 2:40 a.m."
      "Witnesses along a 60-mile (100-kilometer) swath of
the Sound from near Tacoma to Whidbey Island and as far as
100 miles (160 kilometers) to the east near Ellensburg
(population 15,414) said the sky lit up brightly, and many
also reported booming sounds as if from one or more
explosions."
      "At Whidbey Island, Petty Officer Andrew Davis said
he and others saw the skybursts."
      "'It made a pretty big bang,' Davis said, 'We thought
it might be a meteorite or something.'"
      "Officials at the National Weather Service ruled out
any weather-related causes, and duty officers at the
Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) and the Whidbey Island Naval
Air Station said they knew of no civilian or military
airplane problem."
      "Civilian pilots reported seeing the flash near
Ellensburg, east of the Cascade (mountain) range, said an
FAA duty officer who did not give her name."  (See The
Olympian of Olympia, Wash. for June 4, 2004, "Skybursts
reported over western Washington."  Many thanks to Jim
Hickman for this newspaper article.  And don't forget to
visit Jim's Web site at www.thehickmanreport.com.)


STRANGE NAVAL MANEUVERS
HAVE UFOLOGISTS TALKING

      "The (aircraft) carrier USS Harry S. Truman sailed
Wednesday" from Norfolk, Virginia "in a test of the (U.S.)
Navy's ability to have 7 of its 12 carriers away from port
simultaneously, a major shift away from the way carriers
have been used."
      "A second Norfolk-based carrier, USS Enterprise, was
expected to leave Thursday to participate in the exercise
dubbed (Operation) Summer Pulse 04."
      "Summer Pulse 04 continues through August (2004),
with seven carriers conducting joint exercises with allies
from the Americas, Europe, Africa, Australia and Asia,
officials said."
      "'The ability to push this kind of military
capability to the four corners of the world is quite
remarkable,' Navy Secretary Gordon R. England said when he
announced plans for the demonstration last week in
Washington.  'Several years ago, we could deploy only two'
carriers at a time."
      "Summer Pulse 04 is the first exercise of the Navy's
Fleet Response Plan, announced last December (2003),
through which ships will move from traditional, scheduled
six-month deployments in less than 30 days and be prepared
to leave as world events demand."
      "The Navy wants to be able to send six carrier strike
groups in less than 30 days to handle a crisis anywhere in
the world, plus have two more carrier strike groups ready
within three months to reinforce or rotate with these
forces and continue operations in other areas."
      "Summer Pulse 04 is 'proof of concept that we can in
fact make that happen,' Capt. Michael R. Groothousen, the
Truman's commanding officer said Wednesday by telephone
after the Truman left Norfolk Naval Station."
      "Capt. Groothousen said the Fleet Response Plan makes
deployment schedules less predictable--a change necessary
in a post-Sept. 11 (2001) world."
      "'Terrorists love predictability,' he said, 'If we
start putting more unpredictability into our schedule, it
makes it more difficult for any threat out there to
determine when to strike.'"
      "That also means more volatility in the sailors'
schedules."
      "'When you're planning on being in port for a little
while and then the schedule changes, nobody likes that,'
said Petty Officer First Class Tony Rice, 34, of Midland,
Texas, a Truman crew member.  'But you kind of get used to
it as a sailor.  You're taught to be fluid and to expect
the unexpected.'"
      "The Navy demonstrated its ability to 'surge'
multiple carriers like this a year ago during the Iraq war
(against Saddam Hussein--J.T.), said John Pike, director
of Global Security.org, an Alexandria, Virginia research
center on security issues."
      "However, the Navy wasn't really set up to deploy
several carriers at once, so it wasn't easy, he said."
      "'Now they are demonstrating that they are set up to
do that,' Pike said, 'If anybody anywhere gets any ideas--
if North Korea gets frisky or the Red Chinese get too
risky--they might have a half-dozen carriers show up on
short notice.'"
      "This is 'a fundamentally different way of deploying
aircraft carriers than we had during the Twentieth
Century,' Pike said."
      "Typically, a carrier deployed overseas for six
months, then was at home for 18 months while sailors went
back to school in the Navy and the ship was repaired and
overhauled."
      "Under this arrangement, a carrier was combat-capable
only for about six months during a two-year cycle, so
generally only two of the stateside carriers could be
deployed at a given time, Pike said."
      "The other carriers taking part in Summer Pulse 04
are the Norfolk-based USS George Washington, the San Diego
(California)-based USS John C. Stennis, which are already
deployed; the USS Kitty Hawk, based in Yokosuka, Japan;
the Mayport, Fla.-based USS John F. Kennedy; and the USS
Ronald Reagan, which left Norfolk last week and is enroute
to its new home port of San Diego."
      USS John C. Stennis then left San Diego to join USS
Kitty Hawk off the coast of Alaska for a large-scale naval
exercise.
      No sooner had this news been released than Channel 13
in Hampton Roads, Virginia "reported an operation called
Exercise Blinding Storm by the United States and Exercise
Rapid Alliance" by UK.  "The training will include about
30,000 troops from seven nations in exercises off or on
the coast of North Carolina."
      Netherlands "Dutch Marines and French soldiers will
take part, as well as a Peruvian submarine and contingents
from Germany and Canada.  The flotilla is expected to set
sail on Tuesday, with the two-week amphibious operation
scheduled to begin (Thursday) June 10 (2004)."
      The UK naval contingent is sizable.  "The biggest
British ship (the aircraft carrier) HMS Invincible, has
also deployed with a crew of 1,050."  HMS Invincible is
leading a task force of 20 vessels of the Royal Navy in
Exercise Rapid Alliance."
      Part of the exercise calls for landing British tanks
on North Carolina's beaches.  "The British landing
platform dock ship HMS Albion has already arrived.  It
carried four Challenger II battle tanks, the British
equivalent of" the U.S. Army's main battle tank, the M1-A1
Abrams.  "The (British) tanks will be sent ashore aboard
the ship's new landing craft during the exercise."
      Countries participating in Exercise Rapid Alliance
include the USA, UK, Canada, the Netherlands, Germany,
Peru, Norway, Italy, Denmark, France and Australia.
      According to the San Diego Times-Union, a "large U.S.
Navy battle group" is assembling off the coast of Alaska.
The size of the battle group is truly mind-boggling.  The
flagship is the carrier USS John C. Stennis, leading the
guided missile cruiser USS Lake Champlain, the destroyer
USS Howard, the guided missile frigate USS Ford, the fast-
attack submarine USS Salt Lake City, the supply ship USNS
Rainier, the amphibious assault ship USS Belleau Wood, the
amphibious transport dock ships USS Denver and USS
Comstock, the guided missile destroyers USS Preble and USS
Hopper, the cruiser USS Tucson and the guided missile
destroyer USS Russell.
      The Scotsman reported that the Alaska battle group
was "the first time an expeditionary strike group will be
commanded by a Marine general, according to the Navy."
      But that isn't the end of the recent redeployments by
the U.S. Navy.
      "On (Wednesday) May 5 (2004), the USS McCampbell
headed for Southeast Asia in support of a Cooperate Afloat
Readiness and Training (CARAT) cruise.  The ship will be
coordinating joint naval exercises with Singapore,
Thailand, Brunei, Malaysia and the Philippines."
      Also during May, "the USNS Patuxent, accompanied by
the coastal patrol ships USS Typhoon and USS Sirocco, left
port at the Little Creek Naval Amphibious Base Friday" and
"sailed across the Atlantic Ocean to Rota Naval Station"
in Spain "and arrived in port (Wednesday) May 12 (2004)."
      In Washington state, "the Army begins a major staging
operation today at the port to ship (armored and
mechanized) equipment to Southwest Asia."
      And in Louisiana, "Fort Polk's (United Nations) Joint
Readiness Training Center will remain open, the officials
said, with (Army) National Guard soldiers expected to fill
in for the units going to Iraq."
      The sudden intensification of naval activity has
puzzled the world's ufologists, particularly in light of a
strange radio transmission that was intercepted by a ham
radio club back in January 2004.
      On Monday, January 26, 2004, the group of amateur
radio enthusiasts "intercepted a radio transmission" and
"made a digital recording of the transmission that took
place on January 26, 2004 at 5 a.m. UTC.  The frequency
was 11.176 Megaherz.  The conversation is between SNOWBALL
NET and another station.  We assume SNOWBALL is the
operator."
      And a strange conversation it was.
      SNOWBALL NET: "Snowball Net comms check.  All
stations, clock sync, impact at minus 146 days, 5 hours
UTC.  Standby for ACD link."
      A burst of coded digital data then followed.
      BURRO: "Snowball, this is Burro.  You are not secure,
repeat, not secure!  Go green!  Go green!"
      From January 26, a period of "146 days, 5 hours"
brings us to either Saturday, June 19, or Sunday, June 20,
2004.  Ufologists have been speculating for days as to
what might happen on either day.
      Some have reported rumors that Al-Qaeda "has two
diesel submarines with nuclear weapons that we're
searching like crazy for."
      Others speculate that an asteroid might land in one
of Earth's oceans on the appointed day, causing tidal
waves and flooding in low-lying coastal areas.  The ships
were sent to sea, they argue, to keep them from being
swept ashore by the tidal waves.
      A third, less popular theory is that "the government"
knows about an impending alien attack on June 20, perhaps
by some overtly hostile extraterrestrial race like the
Reptoids or the Aldebarani."
      A variant of this theory has the ETs "steering
asteroids at the Earth," in the hope of causing massive
tidal waves.
      Still others, perhaps influenced by the new hit
movie, The Day After Tomorrow, claim that "the big climate
change will begin on the summer solstice," which is
Monday, June 21, 2004, the day after Snowball Net's "due
date."
      UFO Roundup correspondent Jim Danvers said he thinks
Exercise Rapid Alliance is "a plan by NATO to bring
foreign troops into America to put down anti-war or anti-
draft rioting."
      "The British are coming, the British are coming," he
joked, "And this time they've got tanks!"
      UFO Roundup editor Joseph Trainor said, "I am still
blown away by the size of that Alaska battle group.  It
sure doesn't sound like our 'war president' is going to
pick up the peace pipe any time soon.  It all reads like a
buildup to some kind of invasion.  Is Dubya planning a
secret D-Day?"
      Trainor said he could think of "four possible targets
for invasion."
      North Korea - The Stennis battle group might try to
land an amphibious task force in Pungsan to race overland
and knock out the North Korean nuclear power center at
Yongblon.
      Saudi Arabia - If it looked like Al-Qaeda was about
to oust the Saudi royal family, NATO might land in force
and occupy the desert kingdom.
      Iran - In a replay of the 1942 Allied invasion in
World War II, NATO forces and Russia might invade the
Islamic republic and take out the ayatollahs.
      Pakistan - NATO might double-cross President Pervez
Musharraf and strike at "the Islamic bomb," his country's
supply of nuclear weapons.
      "There's an awful lot of naval firepower floating
around out there," Trainor added, "Let's see what happens-
-if anything--on June 20."  (See the San Diego Times-Union
of May 25, 2004; The Scotsman of May 27, 2004; The
Olympian of Olympia, Wash. for May 20, 2004; and The Pilot
of Virginia Beach, Va. for May 24, 2004.
Many thanks to "Popeye, Bluto and Olive Oyl," and Jim
Danvers, for these newspaper stories.)
(Editor's Comment:  At first I thought the theory about
instant climate change was off the wall.  And then I came
across the following article.  Read it for yourself.)



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or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 8

                              Mexican Hat-Dance

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:10:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:34:42 -0400
Subject: Mexican Hat-Dance


Hello,

I'm feeling kind of like the sombrero in a Mexican hat dance.

Bruce: The video you have is 30 minutes, 28 seconds in length.

The DVD Jaime Maussan sent to me, and that I've been using to
create a translation for you, is just under 10 minutes in
length. You don't have to be a math whiz to figure out that
compared to the copy you have been working from, the DVD I have
in my possession is heavily edited and is a substantially
abbreviated (jump-cut) version of yours.

Roughly one-third the content of yours to be precise. You were
absolutely correct, there is a _ton_ of chatter on that
recording that has yet to be translated.

The very first thing I would like to know is; 'Why, if Jaime
Maussan knew that I was performing a translation that you would
use to cull basic data from, did he not inform both us that you
and I were in possession of _different_ versions (edits) of the
FLIR footage?

We've been back and forth, privately, and on-List trying to
figure out what the discrepancy is between the length of the
translation and the length of the footage, yet nobody bothers to
tell _us_ that the problem has to do with which 'version' we
were supplied. What's that all about?

No wonder you kept asking, "Where's the rest of the
translation?" What you have been supplied, in terms of a
translation, is a mere portion of all that is there. And even in
the version you have, there are gaps! What information is
missing in the bits that ended up on the cutting room floor I
wonder? If segments were dropped for security reasons that would
be understandable.

I am 'assuming' that Santiago Yturria is in possession of, or
has seen a of a copy of, the full-length version. If so, I want
to know why _he_ didn't inform us of this 'different version'
situation.

Bruce, the translation you are working from is so
partial/incomplete that it's value really needs to be carefully
re-evaluated. I'll say it again, there is a _ton_ of information
in the version you have that has yet to see the light of day -
to be properly translated/transcribed.

I don't mind telling you that I am more than a little angry
about this latest revelation. I have a feeling that a lot of
this is coming from someone's 'need for speed.'

It _never_ pays to rush.


John 'Sombrero' Velez








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 9

              Re: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:35:41 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 07:37:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency


>Source: Ananova

>http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_981234.html

>06-08-04

>European UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency

>European UFO fans have devised a currency to show
>extraterrestrials that trade between earthlings and ETs is
>possible.

>Kiril Kanew, who is head of the UFO watchers group Contact, says
>they've brought out an "intergalactic currency" called the
>galacto.

>He said: "We propose that the galacto becomes the official
>currency in space."

>Kanew, who is also the president of the Bulgarian Foundation for
>the Search for Cosmic Life, says the first coins have already
>been circulated among ground based ET watchers.

>The coins have been inscribed with the word Galactos and the
>year 2004.

>Kanew and others believe ETs are just waiting for the world to
>put an end to its internal disputes before opening trade
>negotiations.

>"Just imagine you're an extraterrestrial civilisation and you
>want to contact a country on earth," said Kanew.

>"That would be unimaginable, because all countries have opposing
>interests, and there are so many conflicts. The Galactos should
>give them a common currency to trade in."

One of my pet peeves is the use of the word "intergalactic" when
what is almost certainly meant is intragalactic. Why worry about
other galaxies... nearest one about a million light years away,
when there are more than 1000 stars within just 54 light years
of which roughly 50 are similar to the sun?


Stan Friedman







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   Jun > Jun 9

                          Some Recent Manitoba UFOs

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:21:53 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 07:34:54 -0400
Subject: Some Recent Manitoba UFOs


Winnipeg, MB
22 May 2004, 3:00 am

A man called to report that he and his wife had watched a series
of lights moving in the night sky in an irregular pattern. The
lights were seen for about 1  minutes. The lights were thought
to be over the Sobeys grocery store on Henderson Highway in
north Winnipeg.


Winnipeg, MB
22 May 2004, 1:30 am

A man called to say that he had watched several ovals of light
moving in the night sky. They seemed to follow one another in a
circle, separate, then move together again. This aerial ballet
was repeated several times. The observations were made from
northern Winnipeg, and the man insisted the objects were just
east and south of him.


Winnipeg, MB
23 May 2004, 2:30 am

The same witness as the previous night called at about 3:00 am
to report seeing the circles of light moving in the sky again.
He later called a third time the next day to report that he had
done some of his own investigating and found that the lights
were in fact spotlights shining into the sky from a casino in
eastern Winnipeg as part of an aerial light show to attract
customers.


West St. Paul, MB
26 May 2004, 2:55 am

The witnesses were travelling south on Hwy 9 at Rivercrest. To
the east (their left) they saw a huge light in the sky towards
Transcona. They stopped the car, and pulled over to watch. The
object was brilliant white, and had a red light going around its
midsection. As they watched, the object began moving erratically
in the sky, without a straight course. When it began moving
towards them, they got back in the car and drove off. The object
appeared to be chasing them as they drove towards Winnipeg. At
one point, the object seemed to be very close to them, just over
the treeline. It flew over top of their car and took up a
position behind them. The object made no noise. When flying near
them, the object "looked like a frisbee." The object then flew
off to the west towards St. James. When they drove from Winnipeg
to Headingley about 20 minutes later, they thought they saw the
object in the east, hovering over the city. Investigation is
continuing.


Libau, MB
27 May 2004,10:55 pm

Two people, one of whom is an experienced astronomer, observed a
very bright, slow-moving fireball descending from the zenith
towards the northern horizon. Its duration was about 4 or 5
seconds, and its colour was first a bright green, changing to a
yellow towards the end.


Winnipeg, MB
6 June 2004,10:30 pm

A group of people were gathered in Crocus Park in Transcona to
watch some fireworks that were scheduled. Facing W, towards
city, they saw an object like "a little fluffy oval cloud"
moving in circles. The weather was very windy, with a storm
front moving in from the W. (The fireworks were canceled.) The
object moved downward in a circle, quivered, returned to the
top, and repeated its movement several times. It then began
circling to the left. The witnesses strolled over to other
people and they were watching the object as well. The group then
began walking home. While walking for about half an hour, the
object seemed to "follow" them or keep pace with them, causing
them fright. Many people watched it as they were walking home
from the park. The witnesses then got into a car, and the object
again seemed to follow them as they drove. The total duration
was about 2 hours. The witnesses insisted they had never seen
anything remotely resembling the object and insisted it was not
a searchlight from the nearby casino.








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 9

                 Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:53:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 07:41:53 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Warren


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:17:13 -0300
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:23:51-0400
>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>Source: The Santa Cruz Sentinel

>>http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2004/June/06/local/stories/0-3loc=
al.htm

>>06-06-04

>>Alien Research Group Puts Property Up For Sale By Kurtis Alexander
>>Sentinel Staff Writer

>><snip>

>>"It would have been fun to have had (the telescope) in Soquel," said
>>Aptos resident Frank Drake, a founding member of SETI and one of the
>>world's foremost scholars on the search for extraterrestrial life.

>><snip>

>>Drake, like most of his scientific method-going colleagues at SETI,
>>is not to be confused with the UFO buffs who watch X-Files and flock
>>to places like Roswell, N.M., looking for bright lights.

>What a load of rubbish. Note this isn't Drake talking but an
>uninformed reporter. I urge you all to contact him and set him
>straight.

>Ask about balanced reporting. After all, we aren't asking for
>special treatment, just the right of rebuttle, not uninformed,
>kneejerked opinion.

>I watch science shows when ever I can find them. And many of
>them have been about SETI, with the usual cast. Does that cast
>do the same, I wonder, when a decent UFO documentary is on. I
>know, some are an acquired taste, however there are good ones.

>Don Ledger

Don, Et Al,

I took your advise; here's my letter to the reporter:

Dear Mr. Alexander,

In reading your article, "Alien Research Group puts Soquel
Property up for Sale,"  your comment on "UFO buffs"  has
compelled me to put "pen to paper". (Or in this case "finger to
keyboard").

Please take no offense with the following passages, as it is
meant only to "enlighten" you, as I imagine that your comment
isn't "evidence of bias," only evidence of "ignorance on the
subject of UFOs"; as is so common among journalists who haven't
taken the time  to do any research on the phenomenon.

In your article you said,

"Drake, like most of his scientific method-going colleagues at
SETI, is not to be confused with the UFO buffs who watch X-Files
and flock to places like Roswell, N.M., looking for bright
lights."

I actually laughed when I read this; your words praised Drake
and his cohorts at SETI for being serious scientists, using
scientific protocol in their work at SETI, yet reduced anyone
associated with the research and investigation of the UFO
phenomenon to the level of crackpots!

Ironically, one of Mr. Drake's colleagues, was Carl Sagan,
Associate professor of astronomy, Center for Radiophysics and
Space Research, Cornell University and one of the founders of
"The Planetary Society." In addition to his long association
with SETI, Sagan also was one of the scientists who appeared at
"UFO Symposium" in 1968 before the Committee on Science and
Astronautics of the U.S. House of Representatives. (This of
course was "pre-X-Files" so Sagan probably had to pry himself
away from "Star Trek" in order to attend).

One of the other nutballs who attended, and was also a member of
the "Committee on Science and Astronautics" was "Donald
Rumsfeld." (Seems he postponed enough trips to Roswell to become
Secretary of Defense).

Here's a list of the other "UFO Buffs" who attended and or
prepared statements for the symposium:

Dr. J Allen Hynek - Head, Department of Astronomy, Northwestern
University, Evanston, Illinois.

Professor James E. McDonald - Department of Meteorology,
University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona.

Dr. Robert L. Hall - Head, Department of Sociology, University
of Illinois, Chicago, Illinois.

Dr. James Harder - Associate professor of civil engineering,
University of California.

Dr. Robert Baker Jr. - Senior scientist, System Sciences Corp.,
650 North Sepulveda Boulevard, El Segundo, California.

Dr. Donald Menzel - Astronomer, Harvard College Observatory.

Dr. Leo Sprinkle - Division of Counseling and Testing,
University of Wyoming

Dr. Garry C. Henderson - Senior Research Scientist, Space
Sciences, General Dynamics

Stanton T. Friedman - Nuclear Physicist, Westinghouse
Astronuclear Laboratory

Dr. Roger N. Shepard - Department of Psychology, Stanford
University

Dr. Frank E. Salisbury - Head, Plant Science Department, Utah
State University

In October of 1997 another "whacky group of guys" got together
by the request of  Laurance S. Rockefeller to scientifically
research the UFO phenomenon, they were as follows:

Dr. Peter A. Sturrock - Professor of Applied Physics at Stanford
University.

Dr. Thomas E. Holzer - High Altitude Observatory of the National
Center for Atmospheric Research

Dr. Robert Jahn - Professor of Aerospace Engineering at
Princeton University

Dr. David E. Pritchard - Professor of Physics at the
Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Dr. Harold E. Puthoff - Director of the Institute for Advanced
Studies in Austin

Dr. Yervant Terzian - Professor of Astronomy and Chairman of the
Astronomy Department at Cornell University

Dr. Charles R. Tolbert - Professor of Astronomy at the
University of Virginia

These kooks concluded, in regards to SETI, "UFO and SETI
communities share defining attributes including a surfeit of
putative evidence that remains unidentified, and the lack of a
single example that can be unequivocally verified, repeated,
understood, or captured. That is, both are subject areas of
investigation that totally lack identified objects.

. . . The SETI and UFO problems also involve different
approaches. Scientists may pursue the SETI project and remain in
a very familiar environment: the relevant technological area is
clearly identified and one may follow a predefined strategy by
specifying the frequency search band, the required receiver
sensitivity, the intrinsic properties of an intelligent signal,
etc. On the other hand, research on the UFO problem is
necessarily complex, multidisciplinary, unpredictable and must
be expected to evolve as research progresses. The basic
detection is usually carried out by unprepared human beings, and
analysis may call upon a wide range of disciplines including
human perception, psychology, astronomy, image processing,
physics, chemistry, etc. Moreover, effective research in this
field must be conducted with an open mind."

They made these points:

- The UFO problem is not a simple one, and it is unlikely that
there is any simple universal answer.

- Whenever there are unexplained observations, there is the
possibility that scientists will learn something new by studying
those observations.

- Studies should concentrate on cases which include as much
independent physical evidence as possible and strong witness
testimony.

- Some form of formal regular contact between the UFO community
and physical scientists could be productive.

- It is desirable that there be institutional support for
research in this area.

- The GEPAN/SEPRA project of CNES (Centre National d'=C9tudes
Spatiales - the National Center for Space Research) in France
(see Appendix 1) has since 1977 provided a valuable model for a
modest but effective organization for collecting and analyzing
UFO observations and related data.

- Reflecting on evidence presented at the workshop that some
witnesses of UFO events have suffered radiation-type injuries,
the panel draws the attention of the medical community to a
possible health risk associated with UFO events.

The panel also reviewed some of the conclusions advanced in 1968
by Dr. Edward U. Condon, director of the Colorado Project. He
asserted that "nothing has come from the study of UFOs in the
past 21 years that has added to scientific knowledge," and that
"further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in
the expectation that science will be advanced thereby." While
agreeing with the first conclusion and its extension to the
present, the panel considers that there always exists the
possibility that investigation of an unexplained phenomenon may
lead to an advance in scientific knowledge. The panel considers
that the chances of such an advance are greater now than they
were in 1967 because of the advances in scientific knowledge and
technical capabilities, and in view of the GEPAN/SEPRA model for
data acquisition.

Let us not forget one of the "whacky" organizations who
investigated the UFO phenomenon for over twenty years, i.e., the
"U.S. Air Force" - they were by the way, "looking for bright
lights" amongst other things.

We'll omit the "heads of state, top military personnel,
intelligence agencies, other leading scientists, astronauts and
the millions of average everyday citizens" that belong to this
crazy UFO fraternity, for now, however; might I offer a little
advise, if you choose to comment on a subject that you you're
not familiar with in the future, please take the "bias" out of
the statement, or at the very least provide data to support your
declarations.


Thank You,
Respectfully,

Frank Warren








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             Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 18:14:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:08:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:06:01 -0700
>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:12:52 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 07:08:14 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:13:35 +0100
>>>>Subject: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>>Only just read transcript of Art Bell's 1997 Area 51 call which
>>>>was apparently silenced by a double zap: 1) the satellite comms;
>>>>2) of Art's analog engineering line(s).

>>>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/sep/m15-011.shtml

>>>>Does anyone know _real_ final outcome of that?

>>>>Is the caller alive and well and still enjoying the joke? Or was
>>>>he really silenced? [Apparently call ended (off-air) in a
>>>>'scream']

>>>With anything to do with Mr. Bell, who IMHO, is partly
>>>responsible for the deaths of the poor saps who believed Comet
>>>Hale-Bopp contained a spacecraft or some such and nything to do
>>>with Lazar, Strieber and others has to be taken with a huge
>>>grain of salt - preferably with a good Margurita.

>>Hi G.T.

>>Was that a yes or a no?

>Hello,all, Ray.

>To put it in Tanker Pilot/Firefighter vernacular, not only _no_
>but, Hell No!

>Bell is a discredited source as are the others I mentioned. This
>is my opinion, but I think others will agree.


Hi G.T, & All,

G.T, you drag this out of me -

1) Never heard of Art Bell until last week - Wales is a quiet
country.

2) Asking innocent (gauche?) questions is a great way to get
factual answers - eventually.

3) "Ufology & the media" has as much politics and obfuscation of
fact as any other "interest groups" I've had to investigate,
question or dispute with - check "badsci.txt" (it's only one day
old but Google should point the way) or "laworjustice" for
_really_ nasty stuff.

4) Relax G.T. nothing personal, that last realization came
several months ago, via a load of BBC anti-UFO propaganda.

Everybody out there, your info is welcome. We'll get there -
 eventually.

Cheers
Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








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                   Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:52:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:12:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Stanford


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 05:00:03 +0100
>Subject: Metallics Found In Coal?

>Hi Listers,

>Wondered if anyone knew of metallic objects found in coal or
>metallic residue in the ashes from coal after burning...

Hello Colin,

The finding of metallic-looking and even, occasionally, minute
quantities of metal in the residues of burned coal should not be
surprising. How so? Many coal deposits (especially the lower
grades) contain hematite and other iron compounds, sometimes in
sizeable concretions. Under some coal-burning conditions, the
situation becomes a reducing flame (analogous to the situation
in a smelting furnace, but on a much smaller scale) that reduces
the iron compounds to metallic iron, leaving blebs or small
globs of metallic iron for willing persons to mistake for
evidence of very ancient alien visitation. :)

In cases where the hematite and other iron compounds found in
coal, such as pyrite, happen to become reduced (oxygen, sulphur,
etc., removed by the reduction heating), one can even pick up
such iron with a magnet of sufficient strength.

It would be ridiculous to invoke alien visitation as the
explanation.

<snip>

>The ramifications of this would indicate, maybe, presence of ET
>or ET craft during the Time of the Dinosaurs on Earth and could
>be further proof to go along with the Alien footprints found in
>the USA also dated from that era.

The "alien footprints" from the "Time of Dinosaurs on
Earth... found in the USA" have likewise been claimed by
fundamentalist Christians as "giant human" footprints, proving
according to their warped mentality, that the earth is really as
young as humankind. Well, whether one is a proponent of those
dinosaur tracks as human or as alien footprints, both positions
strike out, paleoichnologically.

Often, when dinosaurs of the type that walked on three toes -
both the theropods (meat eaters) and the ornithopods (plant
eaters) - progressed on a very soft substrates like mud, they
would sometimes lower the back part of the foot (the section of
the foot containing the metatarsal bones) onto the walking
surface for added support, to keep from sinking so deeply. That
kind of walking is called plantigrade progression. When the
elongated track that results from such plantigrade walking
closes back up, partially, from the mud (tending to obscure the
central toe impression, especially, yet lowering the track
profile between the two outermost toe impressions), and/or after
such a track has hardened but is subjected to erosion, it can
leave what looks to the untrained person to be a very odd
slightly human-looking (albeit quite strange and alien looking,
to some persons inclined to fantasy) tracks.

In Texas (and in other of the expanding Bible Belt places),
Christian fundamentalist creationists are displaying photos of a
series of such eroded tracks and claiming them to be "man
tracks". Those were very odd and huge feet that 'man' had! :)
But, of course, Whooo... "There were GIANTS in the earth in
those days!" :)

What the deceiving creationists don't bother to tell (and show)
the little children they try to brainwash with that stuff, is
that if one follows that series of "man tracks" of which they
show photos farther, to where the substrate upon which the
dinosaur was walking is going gradually up-slope and out of the
mud, the dinosaur gradually raised up into digitigrade (toes
only) walking and the tracks become easily recognized as those
of a theropod dinosaur.

Oh, yes, Colin, of course some may choose to believe that those
were really the tracks of a Reptilian Alien, in the latter
(digitigrade) of which, the alien just decided to tip-toe
through the Early Cretaceous tulips! LMAO Bring on the late
'Tiny Tim' with his ukalele! His version of that song seems
appropriate.

For a complete explanation of how those " man" or "alien" tracks
in the area of the Paluxy riverbed were formed, please visit:

http://members.aol.com/paluxy2/paluxy.htm

Plantigrade progression was a world-wide dinosaurian special-
circumstance habit and not just a Texas-only phenomenon. :) -- I
have found several nice examples of plantigrade tracks in Early
Cretaceous substrate (Potomac Group, Patuxent Formation) within
the Washington, D.C. Beltway in Maryland, where they cannot be
explained away as the tracks of down-trodden politicians despite
the occasional finding, among them, of coprolites (fossilized
feces). :)

>This request is allied to my own ET abduction story and in
>particular an occurrence during the 1960's

Colin, I sincerely hope that your personal abduction story is
more evidential of alien visitation than the two kinds of items
of which you asked for information or evidence, as explained
above.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                                  NEO Cons

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:24:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:15:00 -0400
Subject: NEO Cons


As I watched the transit of Venus today, I thought about how
tentative our existence is here on Terra with our life-giving
star Sol within our gangland Milky Way galaxy.

Perhaps this "End of Your World is Nigh" talk is not appropriate
for this List, but it delves into prophecy and Near Earth
Objects, Potentially Hazardous Objects, Near Earth Asteroids,
Earth-Crossing Asteroids and Potentially Hazardous Asteroids or
ruin-your-day-whatchamacallits. According to NASA's Spaceguard,
whose mission is to catalogue 90% of all of the NEA's larger
than a kilometer by 2008, there are about 600 Near Earth Objects
that could be PHO's. The odds of the earth being struck by an
Extinction Level Event asteroid (Torino Scale 10) are 1 in
20,000.

The cyber buzz lately has focused on the village-sized,
dumb-bell-shaped Asteroid 4179 (Toutatis) and it's impending
cosmic brushback pitch to the earth on September 29th. It will
pass by the earth at about 4 times the distance from the moon to
the earth ( 4 Lunar Distances), its closest pass in 650 years.
It has a four-year revolution around the sun and this NEA has
been designated a 3 rating on the Torino Scale by some in the
astronomical brotherhood. The chances of this celestial vagabond
striking the earth are remote. Even it did impact, it would not
be an ELE.

Some conspiracy theorists are claiming that the reason why
British Commandos were caught in Mexican caves or why Israeli
contractors are being seen in Patagonia is that they are looking
for an Armageddon ostrich hole. Others say that the 7 U.S.
carrier battle groups were put to sea because it is easier to
ride out a Tsunami at sea than in port. I believe these to be
unrelated and irrelevant events borne of the Internet.

Comet NEAT, which along with the new Bradfield comet have been
bred in 'Net lore as being Torino 9's, are not PHO's. Asteroid
1950 DA has a 1 in 300 chance (Torino 3) of colliding with earth
in 876 years from now (2880 A.D.). Carol Channing may still be
alive to see this event. 2002NT7 is expected to pass within one
LD(distance from moon to the  earth) on February 1st, 2019 and
again (if we are lucky in 2019 of course) in 2060. Personally, I
call 2002NT7 a genuine PHO and assess it with a Torino factor of
5.  Since 1989, when the first near-miss asteroid (less than 2
LD) was recorded there have been about 8 cosmic arrows that have
whizzed by us. The disturbing news is that 3 of these have
happened in 2004 alone. In December, an asteroid the size of 3
football fields was discovered and passed within 2 LD on January
7th, 2004. This same short-orbit pest buzzed us in October, 2003
(<2 LD) and was only detected 2 days prior to the event! 2002EM7
whooshed by Earth on March 12th, 2004 at a distance of 1.2 LD!
Six days later, 2004FH passed within 27,000 miles of our
mudball.

To me, these are significant events. As you have probably heard
celebrated astronomer David Levy say before, it takes more
people to staff one McDonald's than there currently are
astronomers sweeping the skies in search of PHO's.

The highest junkyard in the world is not on Mount Everest, but
in the atmosphere above you. It is estimated that there are over
12,000 bits of debris larger than the size of a basketball in
orbit above us at any given time. Some contain highly
radioactive material. It was not until Skylab's orbit totally
decayed in 1979 before people started to concern themselves with
space junk and the subsequent re-entering debris shower that
becomes more relevant and prevalent with each passing year.
Mir's plunge re-invigorated these concerns. You saw in the news
last week about the bolide in Washington state (the size of a
computer monitor) that lit up the area for miles around. Whether
it was artificial or not remains to be seen.

Some claim the Kecksburg Incident of 1965 was merely a case of a
highly sensitive Soviet military satellite plummeting into the
woods of rural western Pennsylvania. There are numerous cases of
odd showers of molten debris or simple slag that have crashed
through roofs or into gardens. It is claimed that a few people
have been hit by space debris. Elizabeth Hodges got conked in
December of 1954 when a 9 lb piece of rock came through her roof
and hit her on the hip. If I am not mistaken, a woman outside of
Chicago was walking her dog late one night when she was hit on
the shoulder by space debris. Many houses and cars have been
plunked throughout the years. Who knows? One day space junk
could be raining down on a daily basis and we'll all have to
walk around wearing football helmets! I'm sure it will keep the
watchers at Cheyenne Mountain busy.

John Horrigan
6/8/04


Sources: Space.com, Astronomy Magazine, Sky and Telescope
Magazine, Aviation Week and Space Technology, Air Force
Magazine, Proceedings, Pravda, my local village idiot and my
stuffed teddy bear Mr. Pajamas


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul






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   Jun > Jun 9

                      Mexico UFO 'Twins' Clip Enhanced

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:13:02 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:17:18 -0400
Subject: Mexico UFO 'Twins' Clip Enhanced


List Members,

An enhanced copy of the Mexican UFO 'Twins' is now available for
download on my web site...

http://theozfactor.cjb.net

The 'Twins' clip section has been stabilized, zoomed and False
Colour Enhanced. Some motion within the illumination is now
seen. It remains inconclusive as to what the object within the
illumination is shaped like, however it could be 'upright
cylinder' in shape.

When viewing the clip, note the upward movement of the
'textures' in the centre of the main object. Make of this as you
wish, but it is an interesting feature.

File is in Windows Media Video (wmv) format, size 1.44Mb.


Barry Taylor







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              Re: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:17:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:20:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 1:57 PM
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Doh! - UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency


>Source: Ananova

>http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_981234.html

>06-08-04

>European UFO Fans Devise Intergalactic Currency

>European UFO fans have devised a currency to show
>extraterrestrials that trade between earthlings and ETs is
>possible.

>Kiril Kanew, who is head of the UFO watchers group Contact, says
>they've brought out an "intergalactic currency" called the
>galacto.

>He said: "We propose that the galacto becomes the official
>currency in space."

>Kanew, who is also the president of the Bulgarian Foundation for
>the Search for Cosmic Life, says the first coins have already
>been circulated among ground based ET watchers.

>The coins have been inscribed with the word Galactos and the
>year 2004.

>Kanew and others believe ETs are just waiting for the world to
>put an end to its internal disputes before opening trade
>negotiations.

>"Just imagine you're an extraterrestrial civilisation and you
>want to contact a country on earth," said Kanew.

>"That would be unimaginable, because all countries have opposing
>interests, and there are so many conflicts. The Galactos should
>give them a common currency to trade in."


Hi Listers

Don't they have this slightly wrong somewhere in using gold?
Would it not be better to have a currency of spent Diamond Stars
or Kilometer long stainless steel Asteroids. They would be
difficult to put in your back pocket which would increase there
value  :-)


Col







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                    Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Woolf

From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:55:41 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:27:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Woolf


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:52:08 -0400
>Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal?

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 05:00:03 +0100
>>Subject: Metallics Found In Coal?

>>Wondered if anyone knew of metallic objects found in coal or
>>metallic residue in the ashes from coal after burning...

>The finding of metallic-looking and even, occasionally, minute
>quantities of metal in the residues of burned coal should not be
>surprising. How so? Many coal deposits (especially the lower
>grades) contain hematite and other iron compounds, sometimes in
>sizeable concretions. Under some coal-burning conditions, the
>situation becomes a reducing flame (analogous to the situation
>in a smelting furnace, but on a much smaller scale) that reduces
>the iron compounds to metallic iron, leaving blebs or small
>globs of metallic iron for willing persons to mistake for
>evidence of very ancient alien visitation. :)

>In cases where the hematite and other iron compounds found in
>coal, such as pyrite, happen to become reduced (oxygen, sulphur,
>etc., removed by the reduction heating), one can even pick up
>such iron with a magnet of sufficient strength.

>Snip<

Hi Colin,

Abovementioned explanation does not explain a solid round
metallic ball with indentations found in Coal Deposits ,in this
regard I suggest you type in Michael Cremo into any search
engine and see what you find sure way to see how the science of
archeology has been manipulated.


Maurice Woolf









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              Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:57:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:30:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Kaeser


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 18:14:15 +0100
>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:06:01 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

<snip>

>>Hello,all, Ray.

>>To put it in Tanker Pilot/Firefighter vernacular, not only _no_
>>but, Hell No!

>>Bell is a discredited source as are the others I mentioned. This
>>is my opinion, but I think others will agree.

>Hi G.T, & All,

>G.T, you drag this out of me -

>1) Never heard of Art Bell until last week - Wales is a quiet
>country.

>2) Asking innocent (gauche?) questions is a great way to get
>factual answers - eventually.

>3) "Ufology & the media" has as much politics and obfuscation of
>fact as any other "interest groups" I've had to investigate,
>question or dispute with - check "badsci.txt" (it's only one day
>old but Google should point the way) or "laworjustice" for
>_really_ nasty stuff.

>4) Relax G.T. nothing personal, that last realization came
>several months ago, via a load of BBC anti-UFO propaganda.

>Everybody out there, your info is welcome. We'll get there -
>eventually.


Ray,

For those who are trying to approach this subject in an
investigative way (and I'll assume "scientific" at this point)
have learned that Art Bell is an entertainer and not a
researcher/investigator. He has claimed on numerous occasions
that his goal was to provide information so that the general
public could decide for themselves. While this sounds good at
the surface, the show has tended to become a platform for a
number of people who are interested in promoting themselves and
their beliefs, which have often been discredited elsewhere. This
damages the reputation of this genre in the eyes of those who
were already skeptical, which is unfortunately the group we
would need to get on board if we're ever to push for a more open
Government, and further divides ufology.

This isn't to say that Bell never had good interviews and never
contributed good information to the field, but only doing your
homework onece or twice a week can't outweigh the damage done
during the rest of the week (IMO).


Steve








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              Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz Factor'?

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:44:42 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:50:45 -0400
Subject: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz Factor'?


A very unusual Close Encounter with possible "Oz factor"
experiences reported by the witnesses was reported to me last
night. Here's the account:

Winnipeg, MB
June 8, 2004
3:30 am

Two people were delivering early-morning newspapers in south-
central Winnipeg when they saw a bright light moving in the sky,
apparently approaching them. As they were placing newspapers in
sidewalk boxes, the witnesses were shocked to see the object
noiselessly fly over their car and come to a stop, hovering only
"three or four stories high" above them. As they dropped off
their papers, the object "shot off to the west" and disappeared
from sight. The two witnesses quickly got in their car and drove
away to another newspaper box location less than a kilometre
away. As they delivered their next bundle, they were terrified
to see an "oblong" object with white lights moving around its
middle rise up from the ground behind a heavily treed area and
begin to fly towards them.

"It was definitely not a plane or anything else," one witness
exclaimed. "I saw it very clearly, and it was something very
strange."

The object made no noise as it swooped over their car. In fact,
the witnesses noted that their surroundings had taken on a very
eerie character, as there were no other cars on the streets, and
not even a single pedestrian walking a dog.

"Usually, we see some sporadic traffic, even at this hour," a
witness said. "But there was absolutely no one around at all. It
was like a ghost town in the middle of the city."

They drove and parked their car at an all-night coffee shop and
ran into the store as the object flew over the building. They
convinced the proprietor to go outside with them and take a
look, but when they came out, the object had retreated and was
now only a bright light in the distance. After a short while,
the two original witnesses calmed down and continued on their
rounds.

About an hour later, as they were delivering more papers, they
looked up to see "a strange plane" with no windows fly slowly
overhead, making an odd whirring noise. They saw two more
unusual aircraft flying in the sky, and then, "suddenly,
everything changed and there were other cars around, people
walking and ordinary planes were flying over us."

The witnesses were very frightened by their experience, and
could not sleep well during the day after their night shift.
They eventually contacted CFB Winnipeg later in the evening, and
were referred to UFOROM.

Investigation continuing.








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                           Filers Files #25 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:14:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:24:16 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #25 - 2004


Filers Files #25 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations

George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
Vice President of Skywatch International

June 9, 2004
Webmaster: Chuck Warren


President Reagan's Alien Threat from another Planet

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. These files make the assumption that
extraterrestrial intelligent life exists.

Mars -- More Evidence of Life, Massachusetts -White Flying
Disk, New York - White Circular Saucer, New Jersey - Oval
Shaped Objects, Florida - Three UFO's, Ohio - Sphere Flyby and
Boomerang, Michigan - Cylinder, Illinois - Black Triangle,
Tennessee - Red UFO, Missouri - Flying Triangle, Oklahoma -
UFO Photographed, Texas - UFO and Plane, New Mexico - Six White
Lights, Arizona - Humming and Yellow Lights, California - Five
Objects Converge, Washington - Five Chasing Objects, Canada -
Rash of Sightings, Mexico -- Line of Lights, UK - "Flying
Saucer and Cylinder, Portuguese Air Force Alert, Italian Crop
Circle and Cylinder, and Australia - Bright Red Spot

UFO Witness President Ronald Reagan dies at 93.

The history of the world was changed by Ronald Reagans interest
in UFOs. He liked to say, "God has a plan for everything." He
and Nancy were expected at a casual dinner party with friends in
Hollywood when they were first married and showed up a half hour
later quite upset. They stated that they had seen a UFO coming
down the coast.

In 1974, California Governor Ronald Reagan stated, "I was in a
plane last week when I looked out the window and saw this white
light. It was zigzagging around." "I went up to the pilot and
said, "Have you ever seen anything like that?" He was shocked
and he said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let's follow it!" "We
followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light."
"We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter
amazement it went straight up into the heavens."

Reagan, told reporter Norman C. Millar about the UFO he had
seen, and that his wife and him had done personal research on
UFOs and had uncovered references to UFOs in Egyptian
hieroglyphics. When he became President he frequently discussed
UFOs with his staff, recieved numerous reports on sightings, and
made frequent references to UFOs in his speaches. On September
28, 1981, President Reagan received a letter from Major Ret.
Colman VonKeviczky, Director of the International UFO Galactic
Spacecraft Research and Analytic Network (ICUFON) that claimed
UFOs were an intergalactic task force that will destroy earth
unless world leaders band together to end their hostile actions
against UFOs." <=D8=F8 SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';
mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-
language: AR-SA">Chief Military Advisor of the White House,
Major General Robert Schweitzer replied "The President is well
aware of the threat you document so clearly and is doing all in
his power to restore the national defense margin of safety as
quickly and prudently as possible." November 21, 1981. General
Douglas MacArthur also spoke of "an ultimate conflict between a
united human race and the sinister forces of some other
planetary galaxy.

On December 4, 1985In our obsession with antagonisms of the
moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of
humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make
us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly
our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an
alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask you," he
went on, "is not an alien threat already among us? What could be
more alien to universal aspirations of our peoples than war and
the threat of war?"

President Reagan apparently developed a plan to defeat the USSR,
and Communism that he called the Evil Empire. A key part of the
plan was the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) announced in
1983, and called the "Star Wars" defense system that could
destroy Soviet missiles and perhaps UFOs. Reagan proposed a
complex set of defensive lasers and missiles intended to shoot
down Soviet IBCMs. He even offered the system to the Soviets.
Whether inspired through his conversations with President
Reagan, or through information provided by his own intelligence,
Gorbachev had his own interest in UFOs. On February 16, 1987, in
an important speech, at a conference at Grand Kremlin Palace in
Moscow on the "Survival of Humanity," Gorbachev stated,

"At our meeting in Geneva, the U.S. President said that if the
earth faced an invasion by extraterrestrials, the United states
and the Soviet Union would join forces to repel such an
invasion. I shall not dispute the hypothesis, although I think
it's early yet to worry about such an intrusion. It is much more
important to think about the problems that have entered in our
common home."

In May 1990, shortly before the fall of the Soviet Union
Gorbachev made a second more direct statement about UFOs."The
phenomenon of UFOs does exist," he stated, "and it must be
treated seriously."

Reports of UFOs destroying key installations were picked up on
intercepts and the Soviets were very concerned about the attacks
and the new thtreats. President Reagan's interest in UFO's may
have changed the course of history and potentially saved
millions of lives. President Reagan, as Margaret Thatcher
reminded us, "He won the Cold War without firing a shot." In
his last public announcement he revealed, "When the Lord calls
me home, whenever that may be, I will leave with the greatest
love for this country of ours, and eternal optimism for its
future"


Mars Rovers Spot Evidence of Life


Harold Carver writes, "Here are some more discoveries gleaned
from the Mars Rovers images. There is what I believe to be a
UFO in the air, Head figures, skulls and bones, and some type of
landing craft. Also, I think I have caught what may be 'air
vents' to a subterranean structure. Mars may not only be
inhabited by local creatures but may also be visited by the same
type of UFO's that plague our Earth. And then there is the
possibility that the UFO's come from there originally. I have
also noticed "white" dots that seem to hover and move in the
images. Imagine if the inhabitants of a dying Mars had somehow
made their way to Earth to inhabit it. Imagine that they
traveled and still travel between the two worlds so that the
Earth was being used to support the life of the inhabitants of
Mars. This is a radical theory I know, but it would explain most
of the UFO sightings we see. What if these intelligent creatures
depended upon the Earth for their survival?

That the increase in UFO activity at the advent of nuclear
weaponry was not a coincidence but that their need for the Earth
to continue to produce outweighs their need to stay secret.
Would they intervene to stop a nuclear war that would destroy
and poison the Earth dooming them as well as us? It is known
that UFO's have tested our nuclear technology and institutions.
Could it be that they destroyed their own world? There seems to
be a lot of debris lying around. What if some of those craters
are ground zero points of population centers? Before the Rovers
are done, NASA will make a mistake and the truth of it all will
get out. There is too much to search though and everyone needs
to be looking hard at the Mars Rover Images."  Thanks to Harold
Carver

Below is what could be a Martian skull with eye sockets and
nose. Nearby is a possible helmet that is of similar size that
could cover the head and neck. .

These and dozens of other Rover images indicate
evidence of former intelligent life on Mars. Thanks to JPL.

Massachusetts -White Flying Disk

CHICOPEE -- My boyfriend and I were in the park, lying down on
the bleachers on May 30, 2004, at 4 PM, just watching the
clouds. I saw a round white object flying over me, at a higher
altitude than the planes. It was flying from north to south, and
when it got near the sun, it tilted and we could see that it was
a disk, and there was a bright metallic shine off the rim. After
it tilted, it disappeared. There was no air traffic for the
next half hour. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOCenter.com

DENNISPORT -- On June 4, 2004, just after midnight, three
brightly lit objects with red, yellow and white lights flew in
perfect line formation over the witness's home. He was standing
on his front porch talking to a friend on the phone when he
noticed three light formations, each about 1/4" in diameter (at
arm's length) traveling faster than an airplane in a formation-
one right after the other. The space between each object at
arm's length was one and one/half inches and they were traveling
from SW to NE, one right behind the other. They appeared to be
too close together to be a commercial aircraft. Each of the
objects was strobing lights of yellow, white and red, which were
very vivid. The objects stayed one right behind the other with
perfect formation and exact distance between the three.
Eventually, they all banked due north towards Provincetown.
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com

New York - White Circular Saucer

MOHAWK -- At about 7:30 PM, I was observing a hawk flying when I
inadvertently caught glimpse of a UFO, steadily flying in a
straight line on May 23, 2004, at 8 PM. It had no vapor trail
or blinking lights like a normal plane. I watched it travel in
a straight line for about a minute, then it flashed an extremely
bright white light all around it and it was gone. Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com

New Jersey -- Oval Shaped Objects

GARFIELD -- Looking up at the moon the sky was clear on May 29,
2004, at 9 PM, and from the northwest moving southeast was a
single bright dime size pure white light. It was moving very
fast, with no sound and without flashing I.D. lights. I have
never witnessed any type of light like this in the sky even
after many years of sky watching. Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.UFOCenter.com

OCEAN CITY -- Ken Pfeifer writes, "I have e-mailed a photo copy
of a UFO original photo and if you feel this photo could be the
real thing, I can send you the original. My family used to visit
Ocean City in the summer and I found this picture in one of our
family photo shoe boxes. The picture was taken by an old Brownie
Camera and the original is very clear. My aunt and uncle are in
the picture and the big guy behind them is my father Earl
Pfeifer, they are all deceased now. I was about six years old
then."

Thanks to Ken Pfeifer

Ocean City, NJ the summer of 1956.

Florida - Three UFOs

DUNEDIN -- The witness noticed a contrail racing almost straight
up at 8:20 PM that looked like a shuttle launch climbing fast
around sunset on May 22, 2004. It appeared in the middle of the
sky and became visible very high, and kept climbing from there.
As we marveled, a second object appeared only as a light, and
climbed side by side the first. The second one had no trail and
was faster over taking the first one. Then, the first veered
off heading southeast while the second one with no trail
overtook and passed the first one, then they disappeared. The
other witness said she thought the second one was sort of a
triangle with slight wings. All I saw was a ball of light.
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com

FLAGLER COUNTY -- On May 21, 2004, and 22nd at 9 PM, pencil
shaped objects were seen hovering north of Palm Coast. There was
a white light in the middle, and two smaller bright white lights
on either side. The lights fluctuated between red and blue, and
then just red, and then blue. The object disappeared after about
one hour towards St. Augustine. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director www.UFOCenter.com


Ohio - Sphere Flyby and Boomerang

On May 23, 2004, about 500 miles after takeoff and flying west
from JFK to San Francisco at 8 PM, a white sphere passed beneath
the starboard wing flying east. I have seen white spheres in the
sky for years and most recently in Spain south of Barcelona. I
have always wondered what they were? Thanks to
www.UFOCenter.com

HARRISON -- The witness was driving home just outside of the
city on Lawrenceburg Road on May 21, 2004, at 1:15 AM, when he
spotted a very big bright white light above the trees on top of
the hill. It was sitting still and as I went around a curve the
object started to move slowly, then as it was going over my car
it picked up speed and disappeared in a matter of seconds. I
then turned onto Brooks Road and as I came around the curve at
the top of the hill a boomerang shaped object was sitting in the
sky directly over my car shining two white lights down on me. It
had red, blue and white lights all along the boomerang shape,
some of them blinking and some not. It was big and low enough
for me to see that it was huge. I was very scared but it just
sat there and shined its lights on me until I went under it and
then I couldn't see it anymore. I lost sight of it behind my
car. When I turned right on Barth Road, I saw two of the bright
white objects, one on my left and the other coming around behind
it. I stopped my car, got out and called my brother on my cell
phone. The objects started coming in closer and started flying
in a big circle that came over my house continuing on in the
same pattern for an about an ho=D8=F8 ur. Occasionally I could hear
sound from one but it was a muted hum. It is now 3:58 and has
not seen one since 3:06 AM. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com

Michigan - Cylinder

PORTLAND -- The observer was driving west on I-96 and noticed a
bright light in the sky on May 17, 2004, at 9:30 PM. Suspecting
something strange I pulled over and got out my video camera and
it was a ball of light that was constantly moving and shaking in
and out of the camera view. After about ten minutes it began to
play with me....coming up close to my camera then dancing around
and then going back high up into the sky. Also, when traffic
would come down the road it would stop playing with me and sit
high up in the sky. Every once in a while there were spurts of
static on my camera. I spent about 20 minutes filming until my
battery died. When I began filming I had 43 minutes of battery
life left. The last thing it did was come extremely close to the
camera so I could see it large and in person and then the camera
died and it flew back into the sky. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director w=D8=F8 ww.UFOCenter.com

Illinois - Black Triangle

PEORIA -- The witness was photographing thunderheads around
sunset on May 23, 2004, at 7:14 PM, with a Sony F 717. He took
four images in less than a minute and only the second image
captured the fast moving black triangle. This is a 5 mega pixel
camera so it can stand decent enlargement. It shows disturbed
air around it. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com

Tennessee -- Red UFO

 KNOXVILLE -- At 11 PM on May 31, 2004, the couple was getting
some luggage from their car and noticed a very bright object
flying 40 degrees above the southern horizon. The witness
states, "We watched for several minutes and I pointed out that
there were no other lights (red or green) as normally seen with
aircraft." His wife said, "It looks like a sphere with a halo
around it and went into the house to get the binoculars. It
flew west at a slow rate of speed. The moon was very bright and
suddenly a bright object emanated from the sphere and traveled
at a very rapid rate to the east. The smaller sphere had a faint
red glow to it and flew at high rate of speed until it was no
longer visible. The original object flew away slowly gaining
altitude. I watched for another ten minutes until 11:20 PM, as
it got much smaller. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com

Missouri -- Flying Triangle

KANSAS CITY -- The observer saw a flying triangle with bright
white lights on the vertices of the triangle with a red glowing
light in the center while driving down Highway 152 towards
Liberty on May 31, 2004. He states, "At 10:30 PM, I saw a group
of lights in the sky only 300 to 400 feet high and they were not
moving or it was moving towards me. When I got near  I could
see it was triangular in shape, black, with bright white lights
with a glowing red light at the center. It hovered over the
highway away from a group of houses. I kept driving, though I
really should have stopped. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director

CLINTON -- The witness went to bed around 10 PM, but woke up at
11:34 PM, when he saw a blinking light outside his window about
four miles away. It was blinking pretty fast so he grabbed his
binoculars, and it turned out to be a diamond shaped craft. I
can't be too sure of this, but it had turned around in circles
and its lights where in the middle of this blinking light and
they were getting bigger and bigger, as the craft kept turning
around. Realizing that I was seeing an actual "UFO," I took
images with my digital camera but only one picture showed an
orange craft with what seemed to be another blue craft behind
it! Thanks To Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com and
UFOMIG.com

Oklahoma -- UFO Photographed

HUGO -- Larry W. Taylor writes, "This is a further enlargement
of the larger object I took photos of on June 3, 2004, about 6
PM, which looked somewhat like a cylinder. []

The center seems to reveal a round or ball like structure upon
or within the cylinder shape. This craft reflected the evening
sun and appeared to be luminous. This craft and the smaller one
were in the midst of the Chemtrail activity."  Thanks to Larry
W. Taylor From_The_Edge.nul

Texas -- UFO and Plane

DALLAS -- Jim Hickman writes, "Here's an interesting photo I
took May 16, 2004. I was just setting up my 35 mm camera for
some shots of aircraft flying over at DFW, (that's why the photo
is slightly out of focus). The right of the wing of this
aircraft there appears to be a small object flying in formation
with the airplane, and it's in front of the cloud. I did not see
this object, and I'm wondering if it's a lens issue? I had just
cleaned the lens, and it does show up on the negative and not on
any other shots taken that day. Thanks Jim Hickman Director
Skywatch International

New Mexico - Six White Lights

ALBUQUERQUE -- On May 27, 2004, at about 11:15 PM, a traveling
couple was approaching Albuquerque and noticed a string of
about six large white lights at the edge of the city. The
observers thought it might be a skyscraper and kept looking for
the body of the building, but this city had no structures this
tall. We went under a few underpasses and the road turned a bit
and when I got my bearings again it looked like only one light,
then no light. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com

Arizona - Humming and Yellow Lights

GOLD CANYON -- I was awakened approximately at midnight to a
loud "humming" noise on May 31, 2004, at 12 AM, which I knew was
not a helicopter, vehicle or airplane; I looked at my bedroom
wall and saw distinctive, bright, yellow lights - illuminating
my room. I felt I was coming out of a dream, but realized it was
REAL. By the time I got out of bed to look out of my window, the
lights and humming were gone. Have never experienced anything
like this in my life, and have faith in God so am not afraid.
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com

California - Five Objects Converge

BENICIA -- Three objects and another two seemed to meet in the
sky - then two left in formation towards the east, and three
made new formation and left towards the west on June 1, 2004.
 The observer, flagged down the postman and pointed them out at
2:50 PM; and he also saw the three objects plainly as we watched
them together. We saw two Mormon missionaries and I pointed the
objects out to them. One saw the three objects, the other one
did not. The white objects appeared to be round and reflected
the sunlight. www.UFOCenter.com

THOUSAND OAKS -- The witness saw a very bright flashing light
high in the air on May 26, 2004, at 1:27 PM, in the afternoon.
 At first he thought it was the glint off a commercial airliner
landing at LAX, but this was higher and much brighter. The
object seemed to have a dark bottom and flashed very brightly
off the top. It hovered there flashing for a while and then,
would move very fast then stop. Then, it moved slowly south
without sound. This was not an airplane of any sort as I am an
expert in aircraft recognition. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director www.UFOCenter.com


Washington - Five Chasing Objects

LANGLEY -- The witness reports, "I was outside looking at the
moon on May 24, 2004, at 10:25 PM, and noticed spherical lights
chasing each other around the sky, when suddenly four of the
spheres went straight up to be unseen, and one flew over head at
high speed then it shot up and disappeared. www.UFOCenter.com

SPOKANE -- The witness at 2:42 am, had just pulled up in front
of his house on June 3, 2004, and had just turned off his
headlights, when a quick flash lit up the WHOLE night sky, like
a nuclear explosion. He states, "I expected to hear a boom
because it seemed so close, maybe 15 miles away, but I never
heard anything. The flash is thought to have been a meteor seen
by many. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director www.UFOCenter.com

Canada - Rash of Sightings

SUDBURY - HBCC reports there has been a rash of sightings seen
in in Canada. On May 8, 2004, witnesses watched some unusual
objects that were captured on video tape. Again tonight a
witness from Sudbury sent me an email report and I picked up the
phone right away and gave him a call to get the details on what
he and his wife witnessed. Another amazing sighting due to what
the object eventually did. At first I thought it may have been a
planet or bright star due to the description of what it did, but
nope, planets and star don't shoot off and out of sight within
two seconds. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research

Mexico -- Line of Lights

PUNTA BRAVA -- The witness was standing outside his room at 9
PM, on May 19, 2004, and over the Caribbean Sea was a completely
silent slow flying object with white lights that went from front
to back in straight line. The lights were moving in a circular
motion in a line that looked like it went from back to front,
moving the whole time. Once in a while a red light would mix in.
I went to get my video camera and when I got back the craft had
flown further down the coast, constantly changing speeds, it
then disappeared. Thanks to www.UFOCenter.com

CANCUN -- On May 26, 2004, seven witnesses on the beach at
Quintanaroo thought they were seeing a shooting star that had a
bit of a tail at 1 AM. The shooting star shot down then slowed
and turned the opposite way, shot across, and then disappeared.
 We saw almost ten of these in twenty minutes. Whatever they
were they did not appear to be in our atmosphere. They all
definitely seemed to be in space. An employee of the hotel, who
was also watching confirmed that he had never seen this and that
it was not normal. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com

UK - Flying Saucer and Cylinder

KENT -- On May 19, 2004, a large black cigar shaped object was
observed and a helicopter showed interest investigated and then
flew away at 2:15 PM. The cigar disappeared after fifteen
minutes or so. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com

TORBAY, South Devon -- Colleen Smith and Paul James of the
Herald Express report the switchboard was swamped with calls on
27 May 2004, from readers who said they spotted mysterious
objects over Torbay. Some reckoned what they saw was a Jumbo
jet-sized party balloon while others accepted it as a UFO.
 There was a suspicion the cigar-shaped craft was nothing more
harmless than an "8 Meter Airship" sold for =C2=A312.95. Chef Nick
Borne from Paignton, who took the main picture using his mobile
phone to snap panoramic views from the Berry Head Hotel when the
craft suddenly appeared in shot. A bemused Nick secured a
couple of images and continued eating. But the object, which he
captured for posterity at 6.30 PM, was witnessed by at least 20
others elsewhere in the Bay at around the same time.

One mystified sky watcher was retired British Aerospace engineer
Roy Dutton. He tracked an object for 20 minutes through a high-
powered telescope. He reckoned it was flying at 10,000 feet and
was at least the size of a Jumbo jet. After about 15 minutes it
stopped. Then, it just wobbled and ascended to probably double
the altitude, drifting away over the Channel. I lost it
eventually at about 5.25 PM, when I had to move the telescope
because of the trees. What concerned me was that it was in the
flight path often used by aircraft approaching Exeter airport.
Thanks to Jim Hickman Director Skywatch International

LONDON -- On May 27, 2004, an eight year old girl heard a
beeping noise so she looked out her window at 1 AM. She stated,
"There was a flying submarine with flashing red lights, I have
never seen a plane or helicopter like it as it did not have
wings or a propeller." Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
www.UFOCenter.com

Portuguese Air Force Alert

The Portuguese Air Force has been on alert since June 1, 2004,
when several authorities reported seeing a luminous UFO.
"Military radar surveillance has been increased and F-16 planes
are ready for takeoff," according to the daily Correio da Manha.
 The Portuguese civil protection service had received scores of
calls from people who reported seeing a silent, luminous object
in the sky on Tuesday night, giving off white smoke. Air force
spokesman Colonel Carlos Barbosa confirmed to Lusa news agency
that military radars had detected "a target ... that was not
identified as a plane" for two or three minutes. The national
air traffic control authority, Navegacao Aerea de Portugal
(NAV), also confirmed a UFO had been spotted. "The Oporto
control tower detected a flying object which had been observed
25 minutes earlier in Montijo and Beja (south),"

A spokesman of the European Space Agency indicated if it was the
fall of a satellite or meteor, they "would be informed." The
Portuguese weather service said there was no meteorological
explanation for the phenomenon. "
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/black-triangle

Italian Crop Circle and Cylinder

MILAN -- Probably the first formation of crop circles was formed
during the night of 1 and 2 June 2004, in Rho a town in the
north of Italy near Milan. The witness saw a bright white light
from that field that night. Some images are on web site: Thanks
to Ciao Alessandr http://www.x-cosmos.it/news/visualizza.php?id=3D1704


VILLASANTINA (Tolomezzo), On Carnia (Frilly), June 2nd, 2004. I
was in the garden at 5:10 PM, with my younger brother and we
spotted a long, white object that looked like a huge flying
cigarette - though a little shorter than an actual cigarette -
 but still gargantuan. It slowly moved sideways within the
clouds and sometimes turned on itself. I immediately ran towards
the gate, trying to get closer and see what the object was, but
as soon as I reached the gate and looked at the sky, it was not
there anymore. The object didn't reflect the environment."
Thanks to Roberto Malini, Federico Dezi, Andrea C.
www.ufoitalia.net

Australia - Bright Red Spot

SYDNEY -- I just wanted to tell you about a thing my partner and
I saw last Friday nigh on May 28, 2004, 7 pm, driving home from
Sydney to Hurstville. We always drive around the airports. We
like to watch the planes flying in, in queues, see how many the
ATC can line up in the air for landing. As we watched the
numerous aircraft near Sydney International my other half just
happened to notice this bright red spot sitting up a lot higher
than anything else, not flashing, not moving, and not doing
anything. When we got home 15 minutes later my wife pointed out
that it was still there in a perfectly clear sky. The red dot
was at about 50 degrees overhead to the north. As we watched, it
began to "shudder" as the light dimmed out. Then it popped back
on again. It did this at least ten times, each time reducing in
size until it was not visible any more. Thanks to Kelly.


Is the Day of UFO Disclosure Near?

David E. Twichell writes, "With the recent admission of true
"unknowns" in the skies above Mexico, the American truth embargo
concerning the UFO phenomenon is loosing its effectiveness."
 Mexico is the latest country to officially declare UFO's as a
phenomenon worthy of validation and serious scrutiny by the
mainstream scientific community. France's "COMETA Report" was
the first to publicly release documentation of highly credible
cases and conclude that the unknown objects are "real and
probably of extraterrestrial origin." Their analysis was
suffixed with criticism of the American government for dragging
its heals in admitting the same to its people. Between November
of 1989 and March of 1990, a virtual armada of triangular-shaped
UFOs flew over Belgium. On two separate occasions, a pair of
F-16 fighters chased the unknown craft but were outpaced and
outmaneuvered by them. By the end of the siege, the Belgium
government was forced to conclude, "With over one thousand
eyewitnesses, confirmed radar sightings, and military
confirmation, the fact that an unknown craft moved across the
country of Belgium cannot be denied."

Surprisingly, this is not the first time that Mexican
authorities have conceded an unknown presence in their skies.
 In 1991, as thousands of eyes looked skyward to observe the
full eclipse of the sun, several disk-shaped objects were
observed and filmed all over Mexico=D8=F8 . Naysayers came out of
the woodwork to identify the objects as nothing more sinister
than "stars." This explanation was given despite the fact that:
(1) the objects moved as if by intelligent control across the
sky while other heavenly bodies remained stationary, (2) digital
enhancement revealed the moving objects to possess a "hockey
puck" shape instead of round, as would a star, (3) many of the
objects moved in front of passing clouds.

In the March 5, 2004 case in Campeche, Mexico, skeptics wasted
no time in offering conventional explanations that, once again,
did not fit the evidence. One theory was that the lights were
pockets of some "unknown" gasses, even though radar returns
showed them to be solid objects. Another explanation was that
they were dying satellites burning up in Earth's atmosphere as
they fell out of orbit. What are the odds of eleven satellites
falling from orbit at the same time at the same location? And
since when do dying satellites terminate their decent to hover
around a conventional aircraft and then disappear without a
trace?

As the volume of documented cases by highly credible witnesses
grows and radar and photographic technologies become more
sophisticated, it is becoming increasingly difficult for world
governments to deny the fact that intergalactic travelers with
superior technologies are observing our comparatively primitive
island, Earth. And still our world's most highly advanced
superpower refuses to budge from its position of universal
supremacy.

Yet many will agree that Americans are being prepared for the
day of disclosure. This fact is evidenced in the arts as well
as television documentaries and a gradual transformation of
attitude within the mainstream media. The polls continuously
demonstrate an increasing acceptance of the e=D8=F8 xtraterrestrial
explanation for the ongoing influx of worldwide sightings.

Meanwhile, ninety percent of Americans believe that their
government has not been forthcoming with all that they know in
regard to the phenomenon. Pressure is being brought to bear on
those "in the know" by UFO organizations like MUFON, Skywatch
International Inc. and others, as well as respected scientific
organizations such as NIDS (National Institute for Discovery
Science).

If hundreds of thousands of American citizens, over the past
half-century, have not been enough to force our government to
show their hand, perhaps declarations by other world
governments, such as Mexico's, will. I wouldn't expect the
revelation to be simply dropped in our laps but I feel that
recent developments will force an escalation in the preparatory
process by our government.

It is clear that other world governments already view American
authorities with distain for their lack of honesty in the area
of the UFO phenomenon. If the truth embargo endures much
longer, the day may come when the visitors make their presence
known abruptly and undeniably. At that juncture, any and all
governments with prior knowledge will be left with egg on their
faces. I firmly believe that America is far too smart to leave
themselves open to such a fate. I hope that is not just wishful
thinking on my part. Thanks to David E. Twichell
http://www.ufoimplications.com


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to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George A. Filer  www.GeorgeFiler.com/








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                Japanese Startled By Parque Forestal 'Alien'

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:28:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 06:43:29 -0400
Subject: Japanese Startled By Parque Forestal 'Alien'



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
June 8, 2004

SOURCE: Las Ultimas Noticias (Chile)
DATE: June 8, 2004


Chile: Japanese Startled By Parque Forestal Photo
**Encounter site to be visited by ufologists on Friday**

The first phone call that Erick Martinez of CIFAE received
yesterday came from the other side of the world. It was a
journalist from a Japanese newspaper who wanted more details
about the alleged Parque Forestal "alien".

"Japan's most important newspaper (Asahi Shimbun) published the
photo," explained Martinez. "The fact of the matter is that they
have had a legend for thousands of years about a creature called
the kappa. According to them, the figure in the photo resembles
the legendary creature."

Kappas are the river-god's messenger. They are as small as a
primate, with scaly greenish or yellow skin, and they drag
humans to the river bottom to drown them.

The CIFAE director said that "the journalist was translating for
the people over there, and when I told him that Parque Forestal
was only a few meters away from the Mapocho River, they went
wild. If I understood correctly, he was telling me that they
still get reports."

Parque Forestal shall be analyzed closely this Friday, since
Erick Martinez says that they recieved a video recording of
strange lights in the same location where the "alien" was
photographed.

"I truly cannot say what it is, but we have a strange
photograph, we have a strange video from the same place...what
can I tell you? This tells me something is going on."

"Could this be an urban version of the Chupacabras?" inquired
journalist Juan Carlos Valdivia, who accidentally recorded a
couple of UFOs in Cairo a few years ago. The video by Valdivia
was selected by Martinez as the most hard-hitting video he's
seen in his ufological career, because it was taken by "a well-
known person who is not going to go around hoaxing UFOs."

The host of the Sabado por la Noche program said: "when I saw
the [Parque Forestal] photo, I laughed and then I had a nervous
reaction, like when people laugh as they shudder. Now I'm upset
that so much coverage is being given to it, since one believes
that it could be an element to distract people from real
problems.

In any event, Valdivia took it all in good humor. "It's just as
fun. If Scotland can have its Loch Ness monster, having aliens
wandering through downtown Santiago can be tremendously
attractive," he joked.


Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales, IHU
Special thanks to Liliana Nunez O.








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                          Secrecy News -- 06/09/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:48:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:09:09 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 06/09/04

SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 52
June 9, 2004


**      BIODEFENSE: CROSSING THE LINE
**      LEGALIZING TORTURE
**      MEDIA COVERAGE OF MILITARY COFFINS AT ISSUE IN SENATE
**      INTEGRITY OF STATE DEPT TERRORISM REPORT QUESTIONED


BIODEFENSE: CROSSING THE LINE

New government initiatives to promote defenses against
biological weapons threaten to blur the distinction between
defensive and offensive programs, and are placing international
restraints on biological weapons in jeopardy, critics say.

"The rapidity of elaboration of American biodefense programs,
their ambition and administrative aggressiveness, and the degree
to which they push against the prohibitions of the Biological
Weapons Convention (BWC), are startling," wrote three experts on
biological weapons in a new journal article.

"Biodefense Crossing the Line" was authored by Milton Leitenberg
of the University of Maryland's Center for International and
Security Studies, former Ambassador James Leonard, chief
negotiator of the Biological Weapons Convention for the Nixon
administration, and Richard Spertzel, chief U.N. bioweapons
inspector in Iraq after the first Gulf War.

The new essay was first reported by Ian Hoffman in the Oakland
Tribune on June 8.

It will appear in the forthcoming issue of the journal "Politics
and the Life Sciences" (www.politicsandthelifesciences.org) and
is reposted here with permission:

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/cbw/biodefense.pdf


LEGALIZING TORTURE

Deliberations over the treatment of prisoners in the war on
terrorism may or may not be classified, Bush Administration
officials say, but in either case they will not be officially
disclosed.

But thanks to various media outlets, several such deliberative
documents are being unofficially disclosed, to the
Administration's discredit.

A classified 2003 draft report that takes a relaxed view of the
legal requirements governing prisoners in the "global war on
terrorism" was made available by the Wall Street Journal here:

  http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/military_0604
.pdf

A State Department memo on the applicability of the Geneva
Conventions was posted by the New York Times here:

  http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/politics/20040608_DOC.pdf

The refusal to properly disclose this material "is a matter of
grave concern," the Washington Post editorialized today.

Furthermore, "There is no justification, legal or moral, for the
judgments [regarding interrogation techniques] made by Mr.
Bush's political appointees at the Justice and Defense
departments," the Post said.

"Theirs is the logic of criminal regimes, of dictatorships
around the world that sanction torture on grounds of 'national
security'."

See "Legalizing Torture," The Washington Post, June 9:

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26602-
2004Jun8.html

An unofficial student research paper that nevertheless provides
a useful introduction to the topic is "Terrorists as Enemy
Combatants: An Analysis of How the United States Applies the Law
of Armed Conflict in the Global War on Terrorism" by Maj. Scott
Reid, US Army, Naval War College, February 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/eprint/reid.pdf


MEDIA COVERAGE OF MILITARY COFFINS AT ISSUE IN SENATE

A pending amendment proposed by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
would direct the Pentagon to devise a protocol that permits
media coverage of the return of coffins of American service
members killed abroad, while ensuring the dignity and
confidentiality of the deceased and their families.

This amendment responds to the recent controversy over the
publication of photos of flag-draped coffins returning to Dover
Air Force Base (on TheMemoryHole.org) and the Pentagon's refusal
to permit further disclosure of similar images.

The proposed amendment to the 2005 defense authorization act
awaits consideration in the Senate next week.

Other noteworthy amendments to the same bill address subjects
such as: a proposal for a pilot program on cryptologic service
training for the intelligence community (Sen. Bob Graham); a
requirement for inspector general reports on the Iraqi National
Congress (Sen. Leahy); reporting requirements on the Pentagon's
detainment of prisoners (Sen. Bingaman); and further reporting
on data-mining programs (Sen. Levin).

The texts of these amendments are excerpted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/defauth-amend.html


INTEGRITY OF STATE DEPT TERRORISM REPORT QUESTIONED

A new report from the Congressional Research Service cautiously
notes that the State Department's annual "Patterns of Global
Terrorism" report suffers from a variety of statistical and
methodological flaws, and that for the first time an errata
sheet to the latest edition will be provided.

The CRS report was first described in the Los Angeles Times
today.

See "The Department of State's Patterns of Global Terrorism
Report: Trends, State Sponsors, and Related Issues" by Raphael
Perl, Congressional Research Service, June 1, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32417.pdf

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) was more blunt about the terrorism
report's defects.

"It appears... that the decline in terrorism reported by the
State Department results from manipulation of the data, not an
actual decline in terrorism incidents," he wrote to Secretary of
State Colin Powell on May 17.

"This manipulation... calls into serious doubt the integrity of
the report," Rep. Waxman wrote. See his letter here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/waxman051704.pdf



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691






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             Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:09:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:11:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists? - Boone


>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:17:21 -0400
>Subject: Re: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>Date: 6/5/2004 2:18:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Contact/Publicists Info For Ufologists?

>Quite frankly, Greg, we don't need an ignorant producer to come
>forward and produce a UFO documentary. We've had far too many of
>these already.

<snip>

Um, don't have time to read all that Jan. Just looking for
contact info.


Greg








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                      Richard Dolan's June 2004 Update

From: Richard Dolan <keyhole.nul>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 20:40:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:14:03 -0400
Subject: Richard Dolan's June 2004 Update


Greetings. Another long-delayed missive to this blind list. I
will keep it brief. If you�re on this list by mistake, please
let me know and I will remove you from it.

I�ve been busy continuing my research toward Volume Two of UFOs
and the National Security State. Currently, I am in a mini-
 project of picking through the entire opus of the MUFON UFO
Journal and the APRO Bulletin. If anyone can provide me with a
loaner of back issues of the International UFO Reporter, I would
be grateful.

Additionally, for the past couple of months, I have been writing
articles on a weekly basis for the Phenomena Magazine website. I
should have let you know about this sooner, but better late than
never. I have just put all of these articles on my own site
[http://keyholepublishing.com]. It is unlikely that I will be
making an email announcement for each new article that appears,
so if you are interested I suggest you check my website, or the
Phenomena magazine website [http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/],
each week. Typically the new pieces are out each Monday.

There are five new pieces altogether, including a fairly long 3-
 part piece, which is the most recent of all. You can go
directly to the article section of my website by clicking:
http://keyholepublishing.com/essays.htm

With brief descriptions, the articles are:

Government Lies and UFOs. The lies and coverup regarding UFO
phenomena by the American national security state is nothing
new. Indeed, it is simply standard operating procedure. Our
leaders lie about everything important, including UFOs. This is
a three-part series. Published on 5/23/04, 5/30/04, and 6/6/04.

Mexican UFO Case Still Unsolved. After the news was released in
early May 2004 that a Mexican Air Force interceptor encountered
several invisible objects that registered clearly on radar and
infrared systems, a number of articles appeared that attempted
to explain the event as either weather phenomena or new stealth
technology. Such conclusions are very premature. Published
5/16/04.

SETI Know-Nothings and the Teachable Moment. Our current era of
exploration on Mars has got some people thinking about that old
bugaboo of NASA and SETI: the dreaded "Face on Mars." Regarding
SETI, in particular, it seems that whenever the media spotlight
turns on them, the organization feels a compunction to attack
the entire issue of UFOs. Published 5/9/04.

How to Marginalize an Astronaut. This piece discusses an amazing
recent statement by Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell
concerning the possession of alien bodies by a secret group of
"insiders." I contrast that statement with the astonishingly
cavalier treatment of this claim the mainstream media. The end
result trivializes an important issue. Published 5/5/04.

The X-Conference: Not Lights in the Sky, but Lies on the Ground.
This is an article on what turned out to be a well-attended
conference on UFOs and government secrecy, organized by Stephen
Bassett, and featuring 25 speakers. All right outside
Washington, DC. Published 4/27/04.

Finally, I�ll be speaking in Roswell for the 4th of July weekend
at the Ancient of Days conference:

http://www.ancientofdays.net/

Thanks and best regards,
Rich Dolan
http://keyholepublishing.com

"The whole visible world is only an imperceptible atom in the
ample bosom of nature. No idea approaches it. We may enlarge our
conceptions beyond an imaginable space; we only produce atoms in
comparison with the reality of things." -- Blaise Pascal






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                   Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:53:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:18:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Stanford


>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:55:41 +0200
>Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:52:08 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal?

>>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 05:00:03 +0100
>>>Subject: Metallics Found In Coal?

>>>Wondered if anyone knew of metallic objects found in coal or
>>>metallic residue in the ashes from coal after burning...

>>The finding of metallic-looking and even, occasionally, minute
>>quantities of metal in the residues of burned coal should not be
>>surprising. How so? Many coal deposits (especially the lower
>>grades) contain hematite and other iron compounds, sometimes in
>>sizeable concretions. Under some coal-burning conditions, the
>>situation becomes a reducing flame (analogous to the situation
>>in a smelting furnace, but on a much smaller scale) that reduces
>>the iron compounds to metallic iron, leaving blebs or small
>>globs of metallic iron for willing persons to mistake for
>>evidence of very ancient alien visitation. :)

>>In cases where the hematite and other iron compounds found in
>>coal, such as pyrite, happen to become reduced (oxygen, sulphur,
>>etc., removed by the reduction heating), one can even pick up
>>such iron with a magnet of sufficient strength.

<snip>

>Abovementioned explanation does not explain a solid round
>metallic ball with indentations found in Coal Deposits ,in this
>regard I suggest you type in Michael Cremo into any search
>engine and see what you find sure way to see how the science of
>archeology has been manipulated.

Maurice,

I did not say that what I described explains such things. Since
when is a solid round metallic ball a "residue", unless quite
small (maybe "BB" sized) and formed by the process I described?
I would be delighted if any such object were proven both very
ancient and made of metal, but surely you can see that I was
clearly referring only to the part of Colin's request, "...or
metallic residue in the ashes from coal after burning..."

I made no comment on such alleged finds, but since you recommend
Michael Cremo to Colin, and I have long known of Cremo's, IMO,
often misleading materials, perhaps a few readers might like to
learn that his main claim to academic achievement seems to be,
to quote his own words, "My mother tells me that when I was an
infant, she would give me alphabet soup, and sometimes I would
not eat it, but would just spell out words in the bowl."

For reference, please see:

http://www.mcremo.com/cremo.htm

And, Wow! Folks, Cremo tells us he has studied the Bhagavad-
gita! :) Having studied it myself, I cannot imagine how that
qualifies him as an archaeologist, but if he understood its
teaching, I doubt he would brag to us of his vast soul-
experience, saying, "That birth was probably one of millions I
have experienced since I left my real home in the spiritual
world."

Wow, I guess that makes up for academic training or even simply
learning from good books! :)

Believe as you will, Maurice, but I prefer to study archaeology
(when I have time away from paleoichnology) by reading the
writings of those with a better track record than Cremo. I
notice that he lists among his publications no papers published
in peer-reviewed scientific journals, while, it seems to me,
trying to mislead us into thinking he has one by listing in his
"Writer Profile for Michael Cremo", the following: "Cremo, M. A.
(1998) Forbidden Archeology's Impact: Papers, Reviews, Letters,
and Interviews. Los Angeles, BBT Science." [Please note that
last word.]

Science? Not really. BBT means Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. The BBT
founder was, "His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada".

Sound familiar? It should if you're not too young, because he
fathered the Hare Krishna movement. Maybe you've run into his
followers-promoters in airports.

BBT was established in 1972 to publish the works of "His Divine
Grace", and claims to be the world's largest publisher of books
in the field of Indian philosophy and religion.

If Cremo had any appreciable credibility as a writer, IMO, he
would have found a publisher other than the Hare Krishna people.
All his recent publications are by that same Hare Krishna
publisher. If you are seeking objective, reliable writing, I
suggest you look elsewhere.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                  Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:51:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:20:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Dickenson


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 05:00:03 +0100
>Subject: Metallics Found In Coal?

>Wondered if anyone knew of metallic objects found in coal or
>metallic residue in the ashes from coal after burning or of
>anything strange/unusual embedded in coal.


Hello Colin

"Enigmatic erratics" from StrangeMag at:

http://www.strangemag.com/erraticenigmatics.html

has lots of references (including Keel, Steiger) and googling
those should bring up many more.

BTW there's an interesting "erratic" at "perceptions haar" at
bottom of page - attribution and sources are linked

cheers
Ray D


Ray
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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                              A Phial For You?

From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:30:03 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:29:40 -0400
Subject: A Phial For You?


List,

There have been some amusing articles for sale on e-bay lately,
with an apparent extraterrestrial connection. There was Sarge's
dodgy film of an alien, originally priced at $1,000,000 but now
down to a quarter of that. And now we have a rock that might
have been touched by an alien, but, god bless the seller, at a
very reasonable price, so what the heck.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5500322598

In keeping with all of the above, where else is there for us to
go? I believe I have the answer. Before you click on the URL
below, a warning. If you are easily offended by bad taste, then
don't click it.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2249864330&ssPageName--ME:B
:LC:UK:1

As if there could be any question about the veracity of the
advert, take the name of the alleged planet and spell it
backwards. Likewise with the alleged galaxy, but, if you're not
English then the word might not mean much. And furthermore, the
fact that the ad is in the Sci-Fi fantasy section should finally
nail it.

51 hits in just a few hours. I await my first offer. Rio here I come.


Stuart Miller








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                            Re: NEO Cons - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:24:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:58:31 -0400
Subject: Re: NEO Cons - Kaeser


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:24:18 -0700
>Subject: NEO Cons

>As I watched the transit of Venus today, I thought about how
>tentative our existence is here on Terra with our life-giving
>star Sol within our gangland Milky Way galaxy.

>Perhaps this "End of Your World is Nigh" talk is not appropriate
>for this List, but it delves into prophecy and Near Earth
>Objects, Potentially Hazardous Objects, Near Earth Asteroids,
>Earth-Crossing Asteroids and Potentially Hazardous Asteroids or
>ruin-your-day-whatchamacallits. According to NASA's Spaceguard,
>whose mission is to catalogue 90% of all of the NEA's larger
>than a kilometer by 2008, there are about 600 Near Earth Objects
>that could be PHO's. The odds of the earth being struck by an
>Extinction Level Event asteroid (Torino Scale 10) are 1 in
>20,000.

<snip>

As a friend of mine noted, to concentrate our concerns on an
Extinction Level Event is a bit misleading. While an object of
that size might not completely wipe out the human race, even a
much smaller object would most likely bounce man back to the
middle-ages, and perhaps back to the stone-age.

IMO, our society has become very fragile. High technology is
required as a foundation of civilization as we know it. Any
event that disrupted this for a period of time could cause
civilization to collapse into small pockets. An "impact winter"
of only a few years could disrupt all agriculture and further
wipe out millions of people, reducing any chance of maintaining
any level of technology and perhaps knowledge. If our system of
higher education collapses, then even our surviving written
material becomes less meaningful.

As I recall from some of the many Discovery Channel programs on
this subject, an object the size of the Empire State Building
striking the ocean would transfer its energy into a tremendous
wall of water that would inundate the coastlines and cause an
"impact winter" that would last for more than a year. If you
recall the movie "Deep Impact", a study at Los Alamos that year
showed that the damage would be far worse than was shown in the
movie, and that wasn't an ELE. One of the factors they
apparently ignored was the long term effect of water and debris
being blown into the upper atmosphere that would block out
sunlight (according to the computer models)

Civilization as we know it could be severely affected by even a
relatively small meteor strike, but while we know this will
eventually happen there's no immediate concern. One could with
hope that our Government would take a strong stand at cataloging
and monitoring NEOs, but I guess that remains the domain of the
amateurs.


Steve








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               True UFO Believer Hopes You Too Will See Light

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:16:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:16:18 -0400
Subject: True UFO Believer Hopes You Too Will See Light




Source: The Kansas City Star - Missouri

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/8884581.htm?1c

0610-04


True UFO Believer Hopes You Too Will See Light

By Steve Rock
The Kansas City Star

REEDS SPRING, Mo. -=97 Bob White is convinced his story deserves a
grand stage, that his most-prized possession should be displayed
before a national audience.

It should draw tourists from all over the country, he figures,
and be a major attraction for people who want to see an artifact
that White swears was retrieved from a UFO in 1985.

Instead, White's find is in tiny Reeds Spring in southwest
Missouri, secured in a locked display case at the back of a
converted video rental store. Here at the Museum of the
Unexplained, a small, fledgling operation that during a recent
morning went more than three hours without a customer.

White can't figure it out.

All he wants to do is find some believers. He wants people to
quit snickering and looking at him like he's crazy. He wants
them to listen to his story, to take a hard look at his metallic
artifact, to give him a chance.

"This," White said, "is the most difficult thing I've ever done
in my life."

The odds are stacked against him, no question about it. He and
his partner at the museum, Robert Gibbons, have been rejected
and ridiculed. White estimates he has spent more than $60,000
traveling to conferences, starting the museum, having the
artifact tested and retested.

And yet he forges on.

"I'm 73 years old," White said. "I don't have much longer.

"What I'd like to see before I'm gone is the national media get
their heads out of their =85" White paused, choosing his words
carefully, "=85 out of the sand. I'd like to see the national
media and everybody else realize that what I have is real."

Scientists theorize that the "UFO" lights White said he
encountered could have been nothing more than a falling star,
that his artifact could be space debris. Some scientists who
have tested the object, or arranged for a laboratory to test it,
said there was nothing extraterrestrial about it.

People have questioned White's motives, even his sanity.

"I've been called every name you can think of," he said.

For his part, White doesn't wear outlandish clothes, and he
looks as if he could spend the winter months as a department-
store Santa Claus. He comes across as a plain-spoken, level-
headed guy who is every bit as homegrown as his Kansas City
roots.

And if he's doing this for the money, well, that plan was a
miserable failure.

The museum, about 13 miles north of the glitzy Branson strip,
might as well be in another world. There are no neon signs
pointing the way, no twinkling lights outside the front door.
Rather, it's sandwiched between the Humane Society thrift shop
and the Sunrise Cafe on Main Street.

Visitors pass the crumbling concrete steps, the "Flying Saucer
Parking Only" sign. Inside, three donation jars sit in various
locations, and the attached notes say, "Your generosity supports
this museum."

On this day, the jars have gathered layers of dust but not so
much as a quarter.

"Business is slow," White said. "We're barely getting by."

But White isn't going anywhere.

This has become his passion, his mission. His life was forever
changed during that spine-tingling encounter, he said, and he's
got the souvenir to prove it.

"Once it happens," White said, "it's something you'll never
forget."

***

Ask White whether he believed in unidentified flying objects
prior to 1985, and he scrunches up his nose.

"Never," he said. "Not a bit. I was the biggest skeptic in the
world."

That all changed overnight. Here's how he remembers it:

White and a friend were driving from Denver to Las Vegas on a
desolate highway near the Colorado-Utah border. It was 2 or 3
a.m., he said, and White was sleeping in the passenger seat of
the car. At one point, his friend woke him up and pointed out a
strange light in the distance. White didn't think much of it and
went back to sleep.

Then his friend woke him up again. This time, White said, the
lights were practically blinding.

He got out of the car and stared, dumbfounded. The object was
about 100 yards in front of him, he said, "and it was huge =85
absolutely huge."

White was paralyzed, not with fear but with awe.

In time, he said, the lights bolted toward the sky. He said that
they connected with a pair of neon, tubular lights =97 "the mother
ship," White guesses now. And just like that, he said, the
entire contraption zipped eastward through the Colorado sky and
disappeared.

"What I saw," White said, "was not of this earth."

As the craft flew away, White said, he noticed an orange light
falling to the ground. A locator probe? Something that simply
broke off?

It was red hot when he reached it, he said, but in time it
cooled enough to pick up. White shoved the object into the trunk
of the car, and he and his friend headed off to the nearest all-
night diner.

"The strongest thing they had was coffee," White said,
chuckling. "We wanted more than that."

***

White didn't say much publicly about his encounter when it first
happened. A comedian and a singer, he was trying to earn a
living in show business.

"I didn't want anybody to call me a UFO nut," he said. "I was
afraid it might hurt my career."

So he packed up the artifact and forgot about it, at least until
the mid-1990s. Around 1996, after his nomadic show business
career had ended in Branson, he decided to seek out answers.

The object is about 7=BD inches long and shaped like a teardrop.
It has a coarse, metallic exterior and weighs less than 2
pounds. It looks a bit like it could be a petrified pine cone
and is composed primarily of aluminum.

White has had the item tested several times.

The Nevada-based National Institute for Discovery Science in
1996 sent a sample of the object to the New Mexico Institute of
Mining and Technology.

"The metallurgical analysis was pretty mundane," said Colm
Kelleher, a scientist who runs the day-to-day operations of the
National Institute for Discovery Science. "We didn't find any
evidence that it was extraterrestrial.

"Now you can make the argument that we didn't spend $1 million
and look at every conceivable option. We didn't cover every
base."

Gibbons, whose background most recently includes work as a
senior technician in the interconnect technologies division of
Northrop Grumman in Springfield, is quick to point that out. He
said it was the first test conducted on the artifact and wasn't
very thorough. A later test, he said, was conducted by a
laboratory in California and showed that the object's strontium
isotope levels were "virtually the same" as those found in
meteorite samples from Mars.

A scientist at the California laboratory, who asked that his
name and that of the laboratory not be used, disagreed.

"It didn't show any extraterrestrial signature," he said.

Meanwhile, skeptics abound.

Sgt. Gary Carpenter, who works at the North American Aerospace
Defense Command in Colorado Springs, Colo., said it was not
uncommon for NORAD to get calls about strange lights and
unidentified objects.

Not once, he said, has the object been identified as an alien
spacecraft.

"Usually it turns out to be space debris from a satellite that's
decaying, or it's in the realm of naturally occurring, celestial
lights," he said. "It could be something like a falling star. It
could be contrails, the things you would see trailing an
aircraft."

But White and Gibbons are undeterred, proclaiming that White has
twice passed polygraph tests about the encounter and the
artifact. Capt. George Larbey, who is in charge of the criminal
investigation and drug units for the Greene County Sheriff's
Department in Springfield, conducted the first polygraph test in
1998.

"I believe he found an object that fell from the sky," Larbey
said. "As far as the UFO goes, I don't know if I'll go there,
but in his mind, that's what he believes he saw.

"There was no reason for me to believe he was intentionally
fabricating any aspect of his story."

***

This year alone there have been 16 alleged UFO sightings in
Missouri reported to the National UFO Reporting Center in
Seattle. There have been 10 in Kansas, including one in Olathe
in March in which the person filing the report said, "There was
a threat present."

White and Gibbons still hope to tap into that market.

White opened the Museum of the Unexplained with visions of
turning it into a destination. He wasn't looking to get rich =97
according to the Missouri secretary of state's office, the
museum was registered as a nonprofit organization in August 2000
=97 but hoped to spread the word about his experience.

But the museum has struggled, unable to tap into the Branson
spin-off crowd and secure a niche audience of its own. Only
2,800 people went through the doors that first year, when
admission was free, and the museum hasn't been able to replicate
those numbers since.

These days, patrons age 12 and older pay $5 to stroll through
about 2,000 square feet of space. There's a keyboard, for
example, from the movie "Men in Black II" in which the shift key
doesn't capitalize or decapitalize but translates from English
to alien. Other exhibits are little more than newspaper articles
or passages from the Internet.

Such exhibits are nothing but ambience, White concedes. The
focal point is the artifact, and White takes no chances with its
safety. Motion detectors, closed-circuit TV, and window and door
alarms protect it at all times. White packs it up in a gun case
every day at 5 p.m., and the object never spends the night at
the same place two nights in a row.

You can never be too sure, he figures, even in a town with just
465 residents.

"I'm happy for them that they're having a good time, but I guess
I'm just not into that kind of thing," said Kacee Cashman, the
Reeds Spring city clerk since 1998. "I really think they've been
accepted, but everybody's kind of taking it with a grain of
salt."

Everybody, of course, but White and Gibbons.

They have a Web site about White's experience =97
www.hardevidence.com =97 up and running, and Minnesota-based Galde
Press said it was planning to publish White's book this summer.
A member of the museum's board of directors recently purchased a
42-foot transit bus from the city of Dallas, and White and
Gibbons hope to take it to Kansas City and other cities across
the country.

White has told his story on radio shows nationwide and was
featured on a segment of the TV show "Extra" in 2000. He
recently was flown back to the site of the original encounter by
a TV crew from England, and that segment will be broadcast this
fall.

"I don't know what I have to do to prove this is the truth,"
White said. "You can't make this stuff up." First glance

o A southwest Missouri man hopes to draw tourists from across
the country to see what he says is a metallic object that fell
off a UFO in 1985.

o Scientists who have tested the object say there's nothing
extraterrestrial about it.


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-----








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   Jun > Jun 10

                         'Government Lies And UFOs'

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:29:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:18:27 -0400
Subject: 'Government Lies And UFOs'


How is it possible that there is any remaining doubt? How is it
possible that there could remain the slightest reluctance to
explore this reality? How is it possible one can lack the
conviction that this _is_ the future and we're all in danger of
walking into it, regardless, but backwards and in disastrous
complacency - fearfully! The Devil has us by the shirttails, for
sure, but it's not the Devil we know... a _real_ irony! We err.

Read this. It's not that long:


'Government Lies and UFOs'
by Richard M. Dolan

"The lies and coverup regarding UFO phenomena by the American
national security state is nothing new. Indeed, it is simply
standard operating procedure. Our leaders lie about everything
important, including UFOs. This is a three-part series. Notes
are at the bottom."

http://keyholepublishing.com/Government_lies_and_ufos.htm


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.






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   Jun > Jun 10

                  Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:48:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:04:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Stevenson


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:53:31 -0400
>Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal?

>>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:55:41 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal?

<snip>

>>Abovementioned explanation does not explain a solid round
>>metallic ball with indentations found in Coal Deposits ,in this
>>regard I suggest you type in Michael Cremo into any search
>>engine and see what you find sure way to see how the science of
>>archeology has been manipulated.

>Maurice,

>I did not say that what I described explains such things. Since
>when is a solid round metallic ball a "residue", unless quite
>small (maybe "BB" sized) and formed by the process I described?
>I would be delighted if any such object were proven both very
>ancient and made of metal, but surely you can see that I was
>clearly referring only to the part of Colin's request, "...or
>metallic residue in the ashes from coal after burning..."

>I made no comment on such alleged finds, but since you recommend
>Michael Cremo to Colin, and I have long known of Cremo's, IMO,
>often misleading materials, perhaps a few readers might like to
>learn that his main claim to academic achievement seems to be,
>to quote his own words, "My mother tells me that when I was an
>infant, she would give me alphabet soup, and sometimes I would
>not eat it, but would just spell out words in the bowl."

>For reference, please see:

>http://www.mcremo.com/cremo.htm

>And, Wow! Folks, Cremo tells us he has studied the Bhagavad-
>gita! :) Having studied it myself, I cannot imagine how that
>qualifies him as an archaeologist, but if he understood its
>teaching, I doubt he would brag to us of his vast soul-
>experience, saying, "That birth was probably one of millions I
>have experienced since I left my real home in the spiritual
>world."

>Wow, I guess that makes up for academic training or even simply
>learning from good books! :)

>Ray Stanford

>"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
>trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery

Hi Ray, Maurice and Listers

thanks go out to the folk who sent me the great detailed
information many of whom knew of this area of research from many
years ago to recommend reading matter and websites of great
interest to me.

I presume Ray has great in depth knowledge due to his
qualifications and experience over the years and that he may
have knowledge to some degree although he questions the veracity
of such before revealing it in the area of my initial inquiries.
Therefore it is my assumption that nothing is proved yet on my
assumption that the scenario outlined may be so i.e.; crashed ET
craft revealed in stone, Coal or underground to any degree or if
it was then it is covered by non revelation under the secrets
act - or whatever.

If the scenario outlined is true then some of these pieces of
UFO could be detrimental to the health of those keeping them due
to radiation or other problems of issuance and as they could be
sent to the Local Refuse dump in the ashes then there could
indeed be a security and health issue in there regard at these
locations also.

Other research of drives from UFOs if they were crushed in Rock
or Coal over the years due to there interaction by mental
processes could well also be a hazard to those finding/keeping
them or crushed parts of them. If these crushed parts are burnt
within Coal then one would think that a mental reaction would
occur affecting the vicinity and maybe far beyond.

Wither the matter in part or whole is de bunked does not really
matter and may be, based on the above, actually detrimental to
those finding or burning said pieces which or if found should be
handed to those who can more effectively deal with the problem?
This is one of the questions which arise based solely on the
logic that a UFO could have crashed in the era of the time
period outlined which is indicated in the positive based upon
some ufo research of more recent events.


Many thanks again,

col








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   Jun > Jun 10

                            Re: NEO Cons - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:35:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:07:24 -0400
Subject: Re:  NEO Cons - Shell


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:24:48 -0400
>Subject: Re: NEO Cons

>IMO, our society has become very fragile. High technology is
>required as a foundation of civilization as we know it. Any
>event that disrupted this for a period of time could cause
>civilization to collapse into small pockets.

I don't know if that's accurate. Certainly, such a smaller
event in the past might have created pockets of isolation, but
not all of our civilization will collapse at the same time, and
not all of our technology will be lost. Something as simple as
a solar-powered calculator will likely easily survive, along
with someone who knows how to use it. Not only that, unlike in
the bad old days when so much of the knowledge was concentrated
in only a few locations, like the Library of Alexandria, we now
have information spread out all over the place. And if you have
information, you'll have a much easier time getting things back
on track again.

The biggest problem will be with keeping electrical power
systems running, particularly in a "nuclear winter" type
situation. But we should be able to keep the nuclear plants
going for a while, at least until we can get our wave and wind
generators on-line. So much depends on where the impact will be.
As long as we can keep power going, the survivors should still
be able to communicate with each other (hand-crank short-wave?)
and migrate to any areas capable of generating a stable food
supply.

In my humble opinion, the Earth could use a decent extinction
event that kills off, oh, 4/5ths of the human population. That
would be plenty to ensure survival of the civilization, but not
leave too many that a guy couldn't get some elbow room.









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                            Re: NEO Cons - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:50:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:09:48 -0400
Subject: Re: NEO Cons - Ledger


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:24:48 -0400
>Subject: Re: NEO Cons

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:24:18 -0700
>>Subject: NEO Cons

<snip>

>As a friend of mine noted, to concentrate our concerns on an
>Extinction Level Event is a bit misleading. While an object of
>that size might not completely wipe out the human race, even a
>much smaller object would most likely bounce man back to the
>middle-ages, and perhaps back to the stone-age.

>IMO, our society has become very fragile. High technology is
>required as a foundation of civilization as we know it. Any
>event that disrupted this for a period of time could cause
>civilization to collapse into small pockets. An "impact winter"
>of only a few years could disrupt all agriculture and further
>wipe out millions of people, reducing any chance of maintaining
>any level of technology and perhaps knowledge. If our system of
>higher education collapses, then even our surviving written
>material becomes less meaningful.

>As I recall from some of the many Discovery Channel programs on
>this subject, an object the size of the Empire State Building
>striking the ocean would transfer its energy into a tremendous
>wall of water that would inundate the coastlines and cause an
>"impact winter" that would last for more than a year. If you
>recall the movie "Deep Impact", a study at Los Alamos that year
>showed that the damage would be far worse than was shown in the
>movie, and that wasn't an ELE. One of the factors they
>apparently ignored was the long term effect of water and debris
>being blown into the upper atmosphere that would block out
>sunlight (according to the computer models)

>Civilization as we know it could be severely affected by even a
>relatively small meteor strike, but while we know this will
>eventually happen there's no immediate concern. One could with
>hope that our Government would take a strong stand at cataloging
>and monitoring NEOs, but I guess that remains the domain of the
>amateurs.



According to a program on Discovery Channel [USA} that I caught
in passing in the United States a month or so ago, a group of
scientists who work with DNA, there isn't enough diversity of
the DNA  strands[variations] to account for the pre  history
millions who existed before some cataclysmic event that occurred
about 8 or 9 thousand years ago. They suspect a meteor/comet
burst that in the area of Georgia at about that time.

Simply put, there should be more diversity in the DNA and what
would account for what the mitochondrial evidence tells us
today. This group said that since the variations that occur in
DNA is like clockwork they were able to give an estimate as I
motioned earlier. About 8-10,000 people survived the aftermath
of that event and forced a bottleneck in the DNA strains which
have carried on until this day.

The foregoing is very sketchy since I was watching this program
out of the corner of my eye while entertaining some visitors.

Does anyone else recall this program. It explains the
disappearance of the population of some 90-100 million people
from northern south America and even the limited numbers of
North American Indians encountered by the Europeans when they
"discovered" this continent.


Don Ledger








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   Jun > Jun 10

                             FLIR Pro From Dover

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:30:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:12:52 -0400
Subject: FLIR Pro From Dover


Well - I submitted the Mexican FLIR DVD to my sober "pro from
Dover" alluded to earlier (...graduate of the Naval Testpilot
course, just missed astronaut candidate, FLIR expert past,
present, and future... forget for a moment he's a legitimate
skeptic on the ufological and a highly educated, grounded, and
very intelligently _deliberate_ person...).

He was visibly astonished.

This guy has seen aircraft of _every_ type imaged through FLIR
equipment of _every_ generation and he'd yet to see anything
like this. As we watched the DVD he suggested out loud what
these images might be and then discarded these self-suggestions
one by one. Balloons, bolides, and birds... electrical
discharges, plasmid formations and temperature inversions...
reflections, echoes,and misinterpretations... were weighed in
turn and then retired from consideration. He found the
suggestion that they were a new generation of stealth aircraft
from the United States as absurdly laughable (and for the same
reasons) as did many of us on this List. One does not design
stealth equipment that renders the camouflaged object as so
readily seen.

He said that even with early generation FLIR devices an observed
object had a 'hot spot' that was separate from the cooler
portion of the _same_ object. He found the uniformly bright
"hotness" of the orb-like objects in the DVD very peculiar and
befuddling.

Be that as it may.....

His curiosity is definitely piqued about the DVD and he'll be
taking it to work with him to discuss it with his fellow test
pilots at the office. I'll keep ya'all posted on any further
news...

One more thing. If the Government wanted to go to an expert in
the FLIR field for information on this intriguing DVD, my "pro
from Dover" would be one of the _few_ go-to guys. Verily. It
remains that _this_ "Pro from Dover" could not discount the...
non-prosaic... which should raise a few appropriate neck
hairs...

Keep watching the skies... there's something in them decidedly
_beyond_ the philosophy of the impacted skeptibunky reactionary.

Read on.

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Jun > Jun 10

                         Photo Of Venus And Pelican

From: Norm <xxx.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:44:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:18:47 -0400
Subject: Photo Of Venus And Pelican


At the following URL there is a precious photograph of both a
pelican and the planet Venus,  presumably the two most common
causes of "UFO sightings".

http://www.floridatoday.com/news/space/stories/2004b/060804venus.htm









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   Jun > Jun 11

                       Potential Passenger A Sasquatch

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:41:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:41:16 -0400
Subject: Potential Passenger A Sasquatch




Source: The Globe & Mail - Canada

http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040609.wsasuat0609/BNStory/=
National

06-09-04


Potential Passenger A Sasquatch, Pair Say

By Chuck Tobin
Canadian Press


Whitehorse =97 Whatever two Teslin residents saw in the early
morning mist, conservation officer Dave Bakica knows it shook
them up.

Marion Sheldon and Gus Jules were travelling out of town along
the Alaska Highway on an ATV, some time after 1 a.m. last Sunday
when they passed what resembled a person standing on the side of
the highway.

Thinking it was a local from their small community who might be
in need of a ride, they turned around and headed back, Mr.
Bakica explained in an interview Tuesday, recalling his
conservation with the pair.

As the two lifelong Teslin residents and members of the Teslin
Tlingit Council approached to within six metres, they noticed
the figure was covered in hair, but standing upright the entire
time.

Though the northern natural light was dusky at that time of the
morning, Mr. Jules told Mr. Bakica he saw what he believed to be
flesh tones hidden beneath a mat of hair.

"I have no doubt they saw something, and are convinced it was
not a bear or anything in the ordinary," the conservation
officer said.

"They are convinced this was something out of the ordinary....
And they are pretty shook up over it."

Ms. Sheldon and Mr. Jules were unavailable for comment.

Mr. Bakica said Mr. Jules is an experience hunter. He described
the figure as standing about seven feet tall, but hunched over.
They could see it was not a person.

The dark-haired figure departed, taking two or three steps to
cross the Alaska Highway.

Mr. Bakica, who has been checking out the story, said ground
conditions, mixed with a few rainfalls, made it impossible to
pick up an remnants of definitive tracks, and there was no hair
on branches or the like to be found.

As well, he said by the time he'd talked to Ms. Sheldon last and
went to the scene Monday morning, half the town had been out to
the site to have a look for themselves.

"I have no doubt in my mind that they believe what they saw was
a Sasquatch," said Mr. Bakica.

"Whether it was or not, I do not know. Just because you can't
prove something was there, does not mean it was not there."

In April 1991, three Pelly Crossing residents reported seeing a
Sasquatch while driving between Pelly and Stewart Crossing. The
creature fled back into the woods as the vehicle passed, but the
three took pictures of what they claimed were footprints
measuring 37.5 centimetres long in the melting snow.








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                    Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:35:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:43:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal? - Shell


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:48:33 +0100
>Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:53:31 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal?

>>>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:55:41 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Metallics Found In Coal?

><snip>

>This is one of the questions which arise based solely on the
>logic that a UFO could have crashed in the era of the time
>period outlined which is indicated in the positive based upon
>some ufo research of more recent events.

My thought is that the earth is so dynamic that an alien craft
that crashed, say, 70 million years ago, would likely be buried
in volcanic flows rather than in coal formations, or possibly,
if it was extremely lightweight material, it might have been
washed downstream to the ocean where all kinds of other natural
processes would attack it.  Glaciers might also do a pretty good
job of grinding up a UFO over several million years.

I would also wonder about metallics such as iron and copper
found in coal, as well as certain glass fragments, since there
are meteors that can and have deposited this stuff on earth over
the eons.  Now, aluminum alloys or something like that would be
interesting.  And, of course, frogs that hop to life from chunks
of coal are the coolest.








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                  Re: Photo Of Venus And Pelican - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:45:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Photo Of Venus And Pelican - Tonnies


>From: Norm <xxx.nul>
>To: errol.nul
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:44:54 -0400
>Subject: Photo Of Venus And Pelican

>At the following URL there is a precious photograph of both a
>pelican and the planet Venus,  presumably the two most common
>causes of "UFO sightings".

Oh, man, this is priceless.

But where's the ball lightning?

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

New book: "After the Martian Apocalypse"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/074348293X








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                   Re: Photo Of Venus And Pelican - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:00:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:47:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Photo Of Venus And Pelican - Groff


>From: Norm <xxx.nul>
>To: errol.nul
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:44:54 -0400
>Subject: Photo Of Venus And Pelican

>At the following URL there is a precious photograph of both a
>pelican and the planet Venus,  presumably the two most common
>causes of "UFO sightings".

>http://www.floridatoday.com/news/space/stories/2004b/060804venus.htm

Er, which one is the pelican? <g>


Terry







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                   UFO Photographed in Monte Novo Portugal

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:35:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:51:07 -0400
Subject: UFO Photographed in Monte Novo Portugal


Source: Correio da Manha

Source: Correio da Manha - http://www.correiomanha.pt

06-10-04

Portugal: UFO Photographed in Monte Novo

By Rui Chaves/Carlos Varela

A UFO was photographed in Monte Novo between Reguengos and Evora
on Monday, May 31, at approximately 14:30 hours. Four people at
the site - two engineers and two students, did not notice the
presence of the object until they checked the images picked up
by the digital camera. Eduardo Silva, 25, of the  Instituto de
Soldadura e Qualidade (ISQ) took the photo as he performed a
water quality survey on the waters of  Monte Novo, Vigia and
Caia.

"I Didn't See Anything Strange"
"I only noticed it when we saw the photograph. That's when we
started saying it was a UFO, but I only gave it importance when
I saw the news," explained Eduardo Silva. "It was very hot and
there were no birds about, or balloons or helicopters," said the
author of the photo. CM reported on last Thursday that the
Portuguese Air Force had followed the tracks of a "spindle-
shaped" object which had crossed the national air space. On
Monday, Colonel Barbosa of the Armed Forces High Command
explained that they were currently "cross-checking information
from the radar images and eyewitness accounts."

The officer said that "if possible" any news would be made known
"shortly." The photo provided to CM shows no signs of tampering.
The reflection of the sun on the apparently metallic object
agrees with the shadows of the trees shown in the photo.

==============================================================

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Christian Quintero.








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                            Re: NEO Cons - Reason

From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:02:58 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 03:03:24 -0400
Subject: Re: NEO Cons - Reason


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:35:28 -0500
>Subject: Re: NEO Cons

>In my humble opinion, the Earth could use a decent extinction
>event that kills off, oh, 4/5ths of the human population. That
>would be plenty to ensure survival of the civilization, but not
>leave too many that a guy couldn't get some elbow room.

Wow, 4/5 of the population, that sounds pretty impressive. It
definitely beats that guy with the mustache, he only managed to
off a few million.

I take it you'll be demonstrating your public spiritedness by
electing to join the 80% or so who are destined to go up the
metaphorical chimney? No need to wait for an ELE though, why not
just get together with a few like-minded chums and put your
philanthropy into practical expression with a mutual suicide
pact. I'm sure no-one will get in your way.

Cathy

[Catherine Reason]






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             Forteans Not The Only Ones Tempted By Conspiracism

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:29:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 03:16:24 -0400
Subject: Forteans Not The Only Ones Tempted By Conspiracism


Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:55:09 -0700
From: T. Peter Park <tpeterpark.nul>
To: forteana.nul
Subj: FWD [forteana] Forteans not the only ones tempted by conspiracism


Dear Listmates,

I thought you might be interested in the following remarks
about Forteans and conspiracy theories that I just got from my friend
WXYZ in response to a private post to some of my friends and regular
e-pen-pals about Forteans who go in for conspiacy theorizing.

Peace,
T. Peter <tpeterpark.nul>
Garden City South, LI, NY

Peter,

I apologize for the abruptness of my comment on the LDS response
to questions about their temple ritual; I didn't do justice to
the point you have been consistently making that people who take
the paranormal seriously are not so much looking for overall
answers as rejoicing in the fact of the paranormal itself, as
evidence that the Universe is studded all over with pockets of
the "Prankster" element, whether to keep us on our toes or just
to keep us from getting a big head thinking we have all the
answers - and for some of us, rejoicing in that "Prankster"
element.

Those who seek conspiracy-based answers are looking for an anwer
too: they want to know why things aren't the way the ought to
be? Of course their own version of "the way it's supposed to
be," and frequently one comes up with a feeling that "They" are
responsible, whoever "They" are. The good folks who buy the
"Left Behind" books and twenty or so years back bought the
notion that we wouldn't have all these UFO stories if Satan
hadn't sent out demons to fool us, have just as good a "They" as
one could want, as good as the "Merchants of Death" of the
Twenties, who hadn't made enough money out of WW I so they set
things up for WW II - I recall that Leslie Charteris, in several
"Saint" thrillers, picked up that particular thread. I
personally doted on the Fu Manchu stories, dated though they
were, because of the Evil Doctor's vast command of super-science
- great comic-book stuff, with almost every novel ending with
the threat of his comeback. As cheesy as they were, they had
what every thriller needs - a supervillain, a few heroines in
danger, a secondary supervillainess (Fah Lo Suee) whose
sexuality interfered with her commitment to evil, a clueless
Watson, and a grand theory of everything. (I have already
commented on the resemblance between Dr. Fu Manchu and Osama Bin
Forgotten, which so easily spurs my skepticism of the whole
neocon mess.)

What such things - reptilian aliens descended from Alexander the
Great's half-brother, Area 51, Bilderberger Death Merchants or
the Trilateral Commission - have in common are Grand Theories of
Everything That Goes Wrong: exciting stories that explain very
neatly just why Joe Average can't count on Business As Usual.
It's the Bilderbergers' fault, it's the Masons, it's the Jews,
it's the Aliens, the Straussians, the Reds, the Whites, the
Blacks, the Greens. THEY are doing these awful things to us.
Great stories, and very nicely solved by heroics a la Simon
Templar or James Bond (whose first few exploits very much
resembled those of The Saint - Moonraker, for instance. Damn
shame that Roger Moore got both parts.) But not the Wild
Universe that real Fortean phenomena dope-slap us with.

Note, though, that John Birchers and such are just as likely to
buy the notion of the Death Merchants of Bilderberg as are
Sedona-type Grey-hunters. It's because the stories are so
"neat", as a schoolboy would say, not because of any innate
weakness in the methodological commitment of some Forteans.
"Aussie-Bloke's" forecast of the killer meteor strike this week
has made its greatest impact by being picked up and circulated
seriously on a pro-conservative website, "Bushcountry", where
folks are circulating his claims that the first bolides have
begun to appear, one passing dramatically last week over (you'll
get this, I know, if I mention Orson Welles) a town named
Grover's Mill, New Jersey. Hey - it's a neat story, it's never
failed to get some suckers excited, not for a hundred years and
more. That the folks on the Bushcountry site fail to spot the
big red This Is A Gag flag isn't surprising, considering our
national endemic ADD, but it affirms the power of the story of
The Others Pulling The Strings. It's something we've lived with
in the West for generations; one of our myths, like the Quest,
and the Permanently Outnumbered Hero.

WXYZ


 -
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice

Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








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                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:45:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 03:35:13 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:30:13 -0500
>Subject: FLIR Pro From Dover

>Well - I submitted the Mexican FLIR DVD to my sober "pro from
>Dover" alluded to earlier (...graduate of the Naval Testpilot
>course, just missed astronaut candidate, FLIR expert past,
>present, and future... forget for a moment he's a legitimate
>skeptic on the ufological and a highly educated, grounded, and

>He was visibly astonished.

>This guy has seen aircraft of _every_ type imaged through FLIR
>equipment of _every_ generation and he'd yet to see anything
>like this. As we watched the DVD he suggested out loud what
>these images might be and then discarded these self-suggestions
>one by one. Balloons, bolides, and birds... electrical
>discharges, plasmid formations and temperature inversions...
>reflections, echoes,and misinterpretations... were weighed in
>turn and then retired from consideration. He found the
>suggestion that they were a new generation of stealth aircraft
>from the United States as absurdly laughable (and for the same
>reasons) as did many of us on this List. One does not design
>stealth equipment that renders the camouflaged object as so
>readily seen.

>He said that even with early generation FLIR devices an observed
>object had a 'hot spot' that was separate from the cooler
>portion of the _same_ object. He found the uniformly bright
>"hotness" of the orb-like objects in the DVD very peculiar and
>befuddling.

<snip>


Hi Al,

Very good. Did he have anything to say about the possibility of
these being signatures from the waste gas emissions from the oil
wells?

Best,

Don








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                Re: Possible Explanations For Parque Forestal

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:17:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:46:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Possible Explanations For Parque Forestal


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
June 11, 2004


SOURCE: Terra.cl
DATE: June 8, 2004

Chile: 9 Possible Explanations For Parque Forestal "Alien"
by Camilo Valdivieso, Terra Networks

SANTIAGO. June 8, 2004 - The photo taken by German Pereira,
showing a strange "character" walking across Parque Forestal,
has gone all around the world, appearing in a variety of
internet sites as well as news dailies and television. Despite
the fact that the digital image has been studied in detail, no
one knows what the curious phenomenon might be. However, the
following theories have been put forth:

I. THE ALIEN

One of the better-known stories is the presence of an alien in
the photo taken at Parque Forestal. The strange character that
appears near the mounted policemen's horses is very similar to
the "Greys", whether on account of its macrocephaly or its
elongated arms. What is odd is the creature's size, since tests
to the digital image show that its height would not exceed 80
centimeters. Some ufologists state that there is no precedent
for such small extraterrestrials, therefore this possibility has
been discarded. However, UFO research has always been based on
eyewitness testimony and photo evidence, therefore a new concept
of space beings, smaller in size than those hitherto known,
would be a new line of research.

II. THE IMP OR GNOME

Without a doubt one of the most accepted theories by the public
regarding the strange creature. Certainly the characteristics
that can be made out on this entity are similar to the ones
described by those who have seen imps, whether on acount of its
size or its greenish hue. Furthermore, these mythical creatures
are believed to inhabit places filled with trees and flowers,
making it not at all strange that Parque Forestal should form
part of their habitat. Experts in manifestations by these
entities reinforce the theory that imps can only be seen by
certain people, since they belong to another dimension, and that
a digital photograph could be a good option for seeing them.

III. A GHOST.

Cyberspace is filled with countless photos showing specters or
ghosts in poses similar to that of the Parque Forestal creature.
Among thousands of photos, a good number of them are fakes, but
an equally significant amount has not been dismissed as hoaxes.
Therefore, within the possibilities of this image, the
possibility of a ghost could easily coincide with many others of
its type.

IV. A TREE BRANCH.

The trails of Parque Forestal are covered with many leaves and
branches that constantly fall from the trees, especially during
the fall. For this reason, one of the theories put forth
explains that one such branch could have created the capricious
image of a walking alien. The blurriness of the image could lend
credibility to this explanation.

V. A CHILD

Another theory posited states that a small child was walking
between the two Carabineros horsemen.  This is not unlikely,
since such things happen constantly in that area of the park.
But upon studying the image and being's size, the child could
not have been more than a year and half old. As the image shows,
the creature walks erect and its body does not present the
characteristics of a child of that age. Furthermore, there are
no signs of clothing covering the body of the alleged child, and
the neck is absent from beings quasi-deformed head. However, the
sweep of the image deforms the possibility of evaluating details
such as clothing or other traits that could make this the
solution.


VI. A MONKEY

What would an ape be doing in the middle of Parque Central?
Well, its one of many interpretations of this image. The
characteristics of the "creature" could be projected on  a small
ape who had escaped at that time from the zoo or from a private
home. What is odd is the color of the alleged ape, aside from
the calm way it crosses between two animals of far larger size
than its own.


VII. LIGHTS AND SHADOWS

For those knowledgeable in the subject, it is easy to capture a
significant light and shadow play which can mislead us easily.
Upon observing this photo, we can see that there are several
patches of light between the leaves. These give the sensation of
possessing a color that is similar to that of the strange being.
We also see another light spot over the entity's body,
suggesting an object on its back, which could be interpreted as
a rucksack, but is only light play after initial analysis. Under
this premise, we cannot dismiss the possibility that the
phenomenon photographed by  German Pereira is only the product
of light and shadow play.


VII. THE HOAX

Under the magnifying glasses of several experts, the image from
Forestal is no more than an absurd hoax to promote the subject
of UFOs and aliens. However, we lack any proof that completely
rejects the veracity of the alleged alien photo. The following
are some possible means of hoaxing the image

Superimposed Images

One of the most common tricks when creating photos of this sort
is the superimposition of images, whether through a computer or
employing sophisticated design programs, which aid us in
constructing photos with external elements. This can be done by
taking a photo obtained by a conventional original (a
traditional photo with a chemically-processed negative) which
has been scanned and then digitized. Then, an external element
is attached (as strange figure or other object. After printing
it on a laser printer on high-quality paper, it can be
photographed using a digital camera, obtaining the result we
have come to know.

El Barrido

One of the photos limitations is the sweep generated by the
digital camera, which blurs the image, making it impossible to
make a firm conclusion. But the most curious detail is that
these "sweeps" are hard to do with a digital camera. Digital
cameras generally operate as sensitivities of 100, 200 and 400
ISO (standardized sensitivity units between ASA and DIN, which
are the U.S. and German  units, respectively). This means that
the exposure speeds for an outdoor shot on a clear day (such as
in this photo) would never be lower than 1/100th of a second. A
sweep of such a magnitude could never be obtained at such a
speed. The photo would be underexposed (in its original) for
which reason the contrast (luminance) or colors (chrominance)
cannot be fully seen, which are needed to distinguish capacity
and depth in each cell.

IX. A PRANK

Another possibility is that it was all concocted at the site of
the events, creating the impression of a being calmly walking
among two mounted horses. When looking closely at the image, we
can see that the at the second post to the left of the photo,
there is a diagonal element supported toward the ground. This
could be a stick, but its thickness could readily represent one
of the legs of a tripod supporting the strange character.

===============================================================

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Camilo Valdivieso, Terra Networks









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             Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:08:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:56:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:57:12 -0400
>Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:30:45 -0400
>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Kaeser

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 18:14:15 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:06:01 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>To put it in Tanker Pilot/Firefighter vernacular, not only _no_
>>but, Hell No!

>>>Bell is a discredited source as are the others I mentioned. This
>>>is my opinion, but I think others will agree.

>>G.T, you drag this out of me -

>>1) Never heard of Art Bell until last week - Wales is a quiet
>>country.

>>2) Asking innocent (gauche?) questions is a great way to get
>>factual answers - eventually.

>>3) "Ufology & the media" has as much politics and obfuscation of
>>fact as any other "interest groups" I've had to investigate,
>>question or dispute with - check "badsci.txt" (it's only one day
>>old but Google should point the way) or "laworjustice" for
>>_really_ nasty stuff.

>>4) Relax G.T. nothing personal, that last realization came
>>several months ago, via a load of BBC anti-UFO propaganda.

>>Everybody out there, your info is welcome. We'll get there -
>>eventually.

>Ray,

>For those who are trying to approach this subject in an
>investigative way (and I'll assume "scientific" at this point)
>have learned that Art Bell is an entertainer and not a
>researcher/investigator. He has claimed on numerous occasions
>that his goal was to provide information so that the general
>public could decide for themselves. While this sounds good at
>the surface, the show has tended to become a platform for a
>number of people who are interested in promoting themselves and
>their beliefs, which have often been discredited elsewhere. This
>damages the reputation of this genre in the eyes of those who
>were already skeptical, which is unfortunately the group we
>would need to get on board if we're ever to push for a more open
>Government, and further divides ufology.

>This isn't to say that Bell never had good interviews and never
>contributed good information to the field, but only doing your
>homework onece or twice a week can't outweigh the damage done
>during the rest of the week (IMO).>

Hello Steven & All,

'Scientific' isn't concerned with reputability - only with data,
which can _then_ be evaluated. [I.e. a true skeptic neither
believes nor disbelieves anything - even from Art Bell]

That said, we should appreciate that all media are either
entertainment (having to please one audience or another) or
(gov't/corporate) propaganda. There is no in-between.

Ufology failed to see this - trying to use media to spread the
message. It won't work - for reasons above. And some so-called
"ufologists" are actually media - motivated to sell
publications, and therefore having to please an audience.

I believe real ufologists (and real scientists generally) should
accept all data and publish all findings (for free). Anything
less brings partiality and prejudice - "a systematic resistance
to discovery" [try that phrase in Google].

The most vital research is that concerning the future of the
human race but our rulers (& media) have shown they are more
interested in immediate power & wealth. In your own words (from
your last NEO post) both real ufology and the monitoring of NEOs
remain "the domain of the amateurs."

Everybody out there, your info is welcome. We'll get there -
eventually.


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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                            Re: NEO Cons - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:05:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:05:34 -0400
Subject: Re: NEO Cons - Kaeser


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:35:28 -0500
>Subject: Re: NEO Cons

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:24:48 -0400
>>Subject: Re: NEO Cons

>>IMO, our society has become very fragile. High technology is
>>required as a foundation of civilization as we know it. Any
>>event that disrupted this for a period of time could cause
>>civilization to collapse into small pockets.

<snip>

>The biggest problem will be with keeping electrical power
>systems running, particularly in a "nuclear winter" type
>situation. But we should be able to keep the nuclear plants
>going for a while, at least until we can get our wave and wind
>generators on-line. So much depends on where the impact will be.
>As long as we can keep power going, the survivors should still
>be able to communicate with each other (hand-crank short-wave?)
>and migrate to any areas capable of generating a stable food
>supply.

Many of the major economic centers are on coastlines and subject
to severe damage or total destruction from tidal waves caused by
an impact.  Oil and gasoline production, as well as the
distribution network powered by electricity) would likely be
severely impacted by this type of disruption.

It's correct that many of the tools we use would still function,
and it would take a more severe strike to eliminate all
technology.  Indeed, that would probably take generations (i.e.
centuries) of decline after all power generation and organized
civilization are destroyed.

>In my humble opinion, the Earth could use a decent extinction
>event that kills off, oh, 4/5ths of the human population. That
>would be plenty to ensure survival of the civilization, but not
>leave too many that a guy couldn't get some elbow room.

I was making the point that we have a lot more to fear from a
NEO than an Extinction Level Event.  Of course, you could take
the positive view of its providing "elbow room"..... <g>








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                     'Aliens Have Been Around For Years'

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:06:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:06:48 -0400
Subject: 'Aliens Have Been Around For Years'




Source: The Huddersfield Weekly News - Yorkshire, UK

http://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0330features/tm_objectid=14324411
%26method=full%26siteid=50060%26headline=-aliens-have-been-around-for-years--nam
e_page.html


06-11-04


'Aliens Have Been Around For Years'


By The Huddersfield Daily Examiner


Kiril Kanew, who is President of the Bulgarian Foundation for
the Search for Cosmic Life and head of the UFO watchers group
Contact, has announced the launch of an intergalactic currency.

He has called it the galacto.

So far, there is no exchange rate so one doesn't know whether it
is worth investing a few quid in galactos in the hope they will
suddenly increase in value with the arrival of the first long-
distance Eddie Stobart from outer space stocked with thousands
of items you never knew you needed and probably don't.

But hey. Wouldn't you want to be the first to have a Rock Cafe
T-shirt from Planet Og?

Or a carved Ting on a plinth from the Outer Regions of Zow?

Kiril has introduced the currency to demonstrate to all extra-
terrestrials who may be watching from orbiting flying saucers
and observation stations on the Moon that trade between them and
us is possible.

He said: "We propose that the galacto becomes the official
currency in space."

And why not.

The coins have already been circulated among Earth-bound alien
watchers so that, if they are abducted by a pulsing bright light
into the bowels of a hovering saucer for several hours of
medical probing, they will afterwards be able to buy themselves
a recuperating cup of coffee from the onboard alien vending
machine.

This, in turn, will allow aliens taking a break to beam down
their order to the ice cream van on top of Holme Moss for three
Ninety-Nines, a chocolate wafer and a cider lolly and pay for
them in an accepted currency.

From such small beginnings will grow intergalactic trade.

I mean, this chap Kiril should be in line for the Nobel Prize
for Retailing because, if you believe everything you read, there
are thousands of flying saucers out there crewed by ETs
desperate for the opportunity to make friends, issue statements
of peace and buy a big Mac.

Kiril believes they are just waiting for the world to put an end
to its internal disputes before opening trade negotiations.

"Just imagine you're an extraterrestrial civilisation and you
want to contact a country on Earth," he says. "The galactos
should give them a common currency to trade in."

And you have to admit that they are more likely to opt for the
galacto rather than the Bulgarian lev or the Icelandic kronur.

Perhaps this will be the big break through because aliens have
been around for years and I don't just mean people from
Lancashire.

Look at all the sightings that have been reported. The claims of
abductions and close encounters. The organisations already in
existence to help ease the arrival of ET's big brothers.

The International Raelian Movement, who believe in cloning for a
better future, are involved in buying an embassy for the
imminent arrival of a space ambassador.

American Anna Hayes, who says she was first abducted by aliens
at the age of four and claims to be the half sister of Jesus and
the mother of Tutankamun, holds seminars on behalf of good
aliens known as the Guardian Alliance.

Visitors from outer space are already here, according to the
Unarius Academy of Science. Their first space ship landed on the
submerged city of Atlantis in the Bermuda Triangle three years
ago and another 31 ships, each carrying 1,000 Space Brothers,
will arrive by 2010 and form a university campus to preach world
peace on a 73-acre plot of land in California.

The sooner the better, considering Earth is under constant
attack from the Black Magicians who want to enslave us. Well, it
is if you believe the Aetherius Society.

Cosmic Master Aetherius contacted Shropshire lad Dr George King.
"You've been appointed Earth's Voice of the Interplanetary
Parliament," he said. Which is nice.

Dr King formed the Society, dedicated to world peace and
enlightenment, in 1959 and the following year headed to
California where people are more gullible and have more money
and set up a centre in Hollywood.

Jesus, now living on Venus, frequently talked to him. So did I,
in a hotel room in Wakefield many years ago during a national
tour.

Dr King was a pleasant chap and was quite happy to tell me how
he fought the forces of evil in a space ship in intergalactic
battle with Jesus as his co-pilot.

If, by now, you sense a note of scepticism let me assure you I
retain an open mind. After all, genuine astronaut Gordon Cooper,
who orbited the Earth in a Mercury capsule in 1963, says he has
seen UFOs.

"I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews
are visiting this planet from other planets, which are a little
more technically advanced than we are on Earth."

Of course, he did fly rather close to the Sun.

He also believes that live aliens have been captured. Which is
not very friendly.

I prefer Kiril's attempts to encourage peaceful trade which
will, in time, lead to settlement and inevitable cross-jostling.

This happened when the Romans conquered Britain and it happened
in Boulder, Colorado, when Mork arrived from Ork and married
Mindy.

Earth ladies, in fact, might prefer an alien husband because it
is Orkan males who become fertilised and have the baby: Mork
produced an egg from his navel which then hatched another
surprise. The Orcan life cycle is in reverse with an old person
being born and then gradually growing younger. This ensures, in
the latter stages of life when they are a baby, that they will
be well looked after.

Sounds a great alternative to Alzheimer's and an old-age
pension. Na noo, na noo.







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   Jun > Jun 11

                            Re: NEO Cons - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:38:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:11:01 -0400
Subject: Re: NEO Cons - Shell


>From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:02:58 +0100
>Subject: Re: NEO Cons

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:35:28 -0500
>>Subject: Re: NEO Cons

>>In my humble opinion, the Earth could use a decent extinction
>>event that kills off, oh, 4/5ths of the human population. That
>>would be plenty to ensure survival of the civilization, but not
>>leave too many that a guy couldn't get some elbow room.

>Wow, 4/5 of the population, that sounds pretty impressive. It
>definitely beats that guy with the mustache, he only managed to
>off a few million.

That's because he was crazy, and I'm not.

>I take it you'll be demonstrating your public spiritedness by
>electing to join the 80% or so who are destined to go up the
>metaphorical chimney? No need to wait for an ELE though, why not
>just get together with a few like-minded chums and put your
>philanthropy into practical expression with a mutual suicide
>pact. I'm sure no-one will get in your way.

Hey, sorry. I just obviously don't have the high opinion of the
human species that you do. To me, we're just a little more
clever-than-average monkeys. And not that much more clever. And
we're big animals, so 5 or 6 billion of us is not just a lot,
it's way too many.

Human beings are really meant to exist in small communities and
mobile tribes, and our development of large cities has created
problems significant enough to threaten the entire biosphere of
the planet. And it's not because we're "evil." It's our most
noble hopes and dreams that foul us up. Our common desire to
live a peaceful life with a happy, growing family and
comfortable home - THAT'S what creates problems. Or biggest
fault is that even though we're smart enough to realize this, we
all think that the other guy should be the one cutting back. So
we go on breeding, and cutting the forests, paving everything in
sight, using up our natural resources, and warming the planet
with methane and CO2, etc.

Nature periodically culls species that overextend themselves. I
don't think we'll be crushed by an asteroid, although it's
possible. I think we'll develop our near space defenses before
that happens. I think it will probably be a mutant supervirus
that kills 80% of us off. And since I don't consider myself
immune to statistical probability, I'll probably be among those
who die "before my time," whatever that means. But, at that
point, I won't care.

"Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had
during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your
species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every
mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural
equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do
not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until
every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive
is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this
planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are
a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are
the cure."








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   Jun > Jun 11

             Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:10:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:14:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Stanford


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:08:45 +0100
>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>Steve Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:57:12 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

<snip>

>The most vital research is that concerning the future of the
>human race but our rulers (& media) have shown they are more
>interested in immediate power & wealth. In your own words (from
>your last NEO post) both real ufology and the monitoring of NEOs
>remain "the domain of the amateurs."

>Everybody out there, your info is welcome...

O.K., Mr. Dickenson (and Steven Kaeser), I suggest you
investigate first, in order to prevent making such absolutely
inaccurate statements.

NASA's Near-Earth Object Program Office has its Sentry automatic
impact monitoring system. In development for nearly two years,
Sentry is a highly automated, accurate, and robust system for
continually updating the orbits, future close Earth approaches,
and Earth impact probabilities for all Near-Earth Asteroids
(NEAs).

Furthermore, the Sentry system is meant to be complementary to
the NEODyS CLOMON impact monitoring system operated in Pisa,
Italy. Personnel from both the Sentry and NEODyS systems are in
constant communication, cross checking each other's results and
providing constructive feedback to continuously improve the
efficiency, accuracy, and robustness of both systems.

The Sentry system was developed largely by Drs. Steve Chesley
and Alan Chamberlin with significant technical help from Dr.
Paul Chodas.

Amateur effort? Give them (the scientists involved and NASA) a
break!

For independent evidence of the veracity of my statements,
simply see:

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news126.html

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Jun > Jun 11

              Alien Invasion Or Human Fantasy? The 1966-67 UFO

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:48:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:19:50 -0400
Subject: Alien Invasion Or Human Fantasy? The 1966-67 UFO


Alien Invasion Or Human Fantasy? The 1966-67 UFO Wave
by Richard H. Hall (for the Fund for UFO Research) is now in
press, and will be available within about 2-3 weeks. It is 144
pages with eight color plates, perfect bound. The book provides
a detailed chronology and analysis of the "Mother of All UFO
Waves," with charts, graphs, and line drawings.

Copies may be ordered from the

Fund for UFO Research
P.O. Box 277
Mt. Rainier
MD 20712

Advance orders are now being taken. The price for orders
postmarked no later than June 20 is $24.00 including Media Mail
postage in the U.S. After June 20 the price will be $29.00.
Order now for a $5.00 savings.

The Fund for UFO Research notes that publications, especially
those with color, that must be published in small quantitiies
are expensive to produce. They are also priced to return some
money that can be plowed back into UFO research. So keep in mind
that your orders will not only provide you with unique and
valuable information, but also will support UFO research.

- Richard H. Hall








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                       Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:27:46 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Velez


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:45:36 -0400
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:30:13 -0500
>>Subject: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>Well - I submitted the Mexican FLIR DVD to my sober "pro from
>>Dover" alluded to earlier (...graduate of the Naval Testpilot
>>course, just missed astronaut candidate, FLIR expert past,
>>present, and future... forget for a moment he's a legitimate
>>skeptic on the ufological and a highly educated, grounded, and

>>He was visibly astonished.

>>This guy has seen aircraft of _every_ type imaged through FLIR
>>equipment of _every_ generation and he'd yet to see anything
>>like this. As we watched the DVD he suggested out loud what
>>these images might be and then discarded these self-suggestions
>>one by one. Balloons, bolides, and birds... electrical
>>discharges, plasmid formations and temperature inversions...
>>reflections, echoes,and misinterpretations... were weighed in
>>turn and then retired from consideration. He found the
>>suggestion that they were a new generation of stealth aircraft
>>from the United States as absurdly laughable (and for the same
>>reasons) as did many of us on this List. One does not design
>>stealth equipment that renders the camouflaged object as so
>>readily seen.

>>He said that even with early generation FLIR devices an observed
>>object had a 'hot spot' that was separate from the cooler
>>portion of the _same_ object. He found the uniformly bright
>>"hotness" of the orb-like objects in the DVD very peculiar and
>>befuddling.

<snip>

>Very good. Did he have anything to say about the possibility of
>these being signatures from the waste gas emissions from the oil
>wells?


Hello Al, Don, All,

In the interest of sharing information as it becomes available,
I post the following copy of a private correspondence that I
received from Jaime Maussan which bears _directly_ on this
question of oil well fires.

Jaime wrote:

-----

John,

I was just talking to General August=EDn Mart=EDnez, who is
responsible for the interdiction operations that stop airplanes
from carrying drugs into M=E9xico. He told me it is impossible to
consider oil well flames as a viable explanation because they
are _too_far_away_ from the area. More than 125 kilometers away
from where most of the objects were recorded. That is, from the
City of Carmen and probably more than 200 kilometers from the
oil wells.

The _first_ object was spotted over Cd. del Carmen, but just the
first one - and that object was traveling fast.

General Mart=EDnez is ready to send an airplane close to the
flames and record them, but they are more than 75 kms. from the
coast.

<deleted personal information>

Jaime continues:

Our relation with the Military seems to be alive and well.

Jaime

-----

That last comment is especially good to hear! It is so great
to have military officials such as Gen. Martinez co-operating
with, and assisting, the investigators. I can tell you that the
Mexican military has been completely open and willing to help
investigators from the beginning. They are all to be commended.
I wish other governments would follow suit. The debate over
UFOs would be over in an instant.

Bruce Maccabee is busy working on the analysis. Everything is
being considered and checked out as carefully as possible. I
hope this new information from Gen. Martinez will register
significantly with everyone who is following developments in
this case.

Gen Martinez informs us that he will arrange for an airplane to
fly out to the oil wells and record them on the FLIR. I hope
this is something they decide to do soon. It would be nice to
know if, given the extreme distances, the oil well fires figure
into the equation in any meaningful way at all. The proposed
test flight to record the oil wells on FLIR would settle the
question conclusively one way or the other. I look forward to
seeing the results of the test flight.

BTW, Jaime Maussan will be featuring this case on this Sunday
night's broadcast of his TV program - which is being aired
nationally for the first time. Everyone can tune in via the
Internet by going to:

http://www.jaimemaussan.tv

Congratulations to Jaime on going 'national' with his program in
Mexico and warm regards to All,


John Velez









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                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:08:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:44:44 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:49 -0400
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:45:36 -0400
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

><snip>

>>Very good. Did he have anything to say about the possibility of
>>these being signatures from the waste gas emissions from the oil
>>wells?

>Hello Al, Don, All,

>In the interest of sharing information as it becomes available,
>I post the following copy of a private correspondence that I
>received from Jaime Maussan which bears _directly_ on this
>question of oil well fires.

>Jaime wrote:

>-----

>I was just talking to General August=EDn Mart=EDnez, who is
>responsible for the interdiction operations that stop airplanes
>from carrying drugs into M=E9xico. He told me it is impossible to
>consider oil well flames as a viable explanation because they
>are _too_far_away_ from the area. More than 125 kilometers away
>from where most of the objects were recorded. That is, from the
>City of Carmen and probably more than 200 kilometers from the
>oil wells.

>The _first_ object was spotted over Cd. del Carmen, but just the
>first one - and that object was traveling fast.

>General Mart=EDnez is ready to send an airplane close to the
>flames and record them, but they are more than 75 kms. from the
>coast.

Hi John,

That's a great idea. Glad to see thay are cooperating to such
lengths. It will probably put that theory to rest. In a recent
post [moments ago] I expressed doubts about the heat signature
from the oil wells being that intense over such a great
distance.

Let's see what developes. Perhaps Al's source might give some
insight in that regard.


Best,

Don Ledger








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                           Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:51:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:51:06 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover





The following was sent to me by a documentary producer friend,
here, in Toronto.

ebk

-----

From: David Cherniack

Hi Errol,

Re. oil well flares and their distance... a phenomenon called
Atmospheric Refraction should also be taken into account, along
with their positioning.

In brief the atmosphere, especially close to the horizon, can
act like a strong lens especially if there's layer temperature
differences. In such a case any airforce flight to verify would
have to be done under similar or same temporal and climatic
conditions as the original flight.

A couple of good sites:

http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/explain/atmos_refr/phenomena.html

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/rs/rad/basics/crv.rxml

I'm sure Bruce Macabee is trying to take this into account in
determining if the fixed configuration of the lights matches the
positioning of the wells with plumes at that time - though a
strong lensing effect might make it difficult to do so with any
accuracy.


David








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                          Secrecy News -- 06/11/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:16:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:54:23 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 06/11/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 53
June 11, 2004


**      DEPT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TIGHTENS GRIP ON UNCLASSIFIED INFO
**      SPECIAL OPERATIONS, ILLEGAL COMBATANTS AND RECIPROCITY
**      REBUKING ASHCROFT


DEPT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TIGHTENS GRIP ON UNCLASSIFIED INFO

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is imposing
extraordinary new access controls on unclassified information
that it deems "for official use only" (FOUO).

The new information policy, which was spelled out in an internal
DHS directive last month, imposes several classification-like
access restrictions on information that is "sensitive but
unclassified."

So, for example, such unclassified information may only be
shared with individuals who are determined to have a "need to
know" it.

Furthermore, DHS employees and contractors must sign a special
Non-Disclosure Agreement before receiving access to unclassified
FOUO information.

As far as could be determined, no other executive branch agency
systematically requires a non-disclosure agreement for access to
unclassified FOUO information.

Secure storage of FOUO information is required, and secure
communication by encrypted telephone and fax is encouraged.

In some respects, the new restrictions on unclassified FOUO
information are not as onerous than those concerning classified
information.  For example, a security clearance is not required
for access.

But in other respects, the new FOUO information policy is
actually more far-reaching than national security classification
policy.

Thus, classified information can only be generated by officials
who have been authorized by the President, either directly or
indirectly by delegation.  But any DHS employee or contractor
can designate information as FOUO if it falls within eleven
broad categories.  Moreover, managers and supervisors can also
designate additional information as FOUO even if it falls
outside of those categories.

Further, the classification system provides for an oversight
mechanism through the Information Security Oversight Office. No
provision for oversight of the new FOUO policy is included.

Finally, the classification system, with all of its limitations,
has a declassification program built into it; by executive
order, classified documents are to be automatically declassified
with the passage of time.  But at the Department of Homeland
Security, the FOUO restriction will never lapse unless and until
the originating authority so decides.

"Information designated as FOUO will retain its designation
until determined otherwise by the originator or a supervisory or
management official having program management responsibility
over the originator and/or the information." (Sec. 6E).

This is a recipe for uncontrolled accumulation of restricted
records.

A copy of the new DHS directive (MD 11042) on "Safeguarding
Sensitive But Unclassified (For Official Use Only) Information,"
dated May 11, 2004, was obtained by Secrecy News through the
Freedom of Information Act.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dhs-sbu.html

(This directive is apparently distinct from the pending DHS
procedures for protection of "sensitive homeland security
information" [SHSI], which are "at least a month away" from
being circulated for external comment, one official said
lately.)


SPECIAL OPERATIONS, ILLEGAL COMBATANTS AND RECIPROCITY

The search by Bush Administration lawyers for loopholes in the
laws of war that would permit abusive interrogation of prisoners
and detainees is problematic for a variety of operational and
moral reasons.

Among other things, efforts to circumscribe international
standards for the protection of prisoners could ultimately place
captured U.S. service members in increased jeopardy.

"Our soldiers used to take comfort in the principle of
reciprocity where the laws of war are concerned," wrote Phillip
Carter in Slate on June 10.  "Now they have to worry about
reciprocity from our enemies."

Disputes about the applicability of Prisoner of War status may
arise first and foremost with respect to U.S. special operations
forces wearing civilian clothing.  (The laws of war do not
require soldiers to wear uniforms, but they are required to
distinguish themselves from the civilian population.)

The underlying body of law and its implications for captured
U.S. forces were explored in a recent Military Law Review
article.

See "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Status: Uniforms, Distinction, and
Special Operations in International Armed Conflict" by Major
William H. Ferrell, III, Military Law Review, vol. 178, winter
2003 (thanks to WS) here:

http://www.fas.org/man/eprint/ferrell.pdf

The same issues were thoughtfully considered last year in a
George Washington University School of Law Master's Thesis.

See "Nontraditional Uniforms Do Accord Prisoner of War Status
for Special Operations Forces by Robert James Drone, August 31,
2003 (79 pages, 2.7 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/man/eprint/drone.pdf


REBUKING ASHCROFT

Attorney General John Ashcroft appeared at an oversight hearing
of the Senate Judiciary Committee on June 8 for the first time
in 15 months and he was soundly rebuked by the Committee's
ranking minority member, Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT).

"For this democratic republic to work," Senator Leahy said, "we
need openness and accountability."

But at the Ashcroft Justice Department, he said, "Documents have
been classified, unclassified, and reclassified to score
political points rather than for legitimate national security
reasons."

Senator Leahy's itemized his numerous complaints in a strongly
worded opening statement here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_hr/060804leahy.html

Attorney General Ashcroft presented his perspective on his
Department's achievements here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_hr/060804ashcroft.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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   Jun > Jun 11

             Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:43:36 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:56:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Dickenson


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:10:33 -0400
>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:08:45 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

<snip>

>>The most vital research is that concerning the future of the
>>human race but our rulers (& media) have shown they are more
>>interested in immediate power & wealth. In your own words (from
>>your last NEO post) both real ufology and the monitoring of NEOs
>>remain "the domain of the amateurs."

>>Everybody out there, your info is welcome...

>O.K., Mr. Dickenson (and Steven Kaeser), I suggest you
>investigate first, in order to prevent making such absolutely
>inaccurate statements.

>NASA's Near-Earth Object Program Office has its Sentry automatic
>impact monitoring system. In development for nearly two years,
>Sentry is a highly automated, accurate, and robust system for
>continually updating the orbits, future close Earth approaches,
>and Earth impact probabilities for all Near-Earth Asteroids
>(NEAs).

>Furthermore, the Sentry system is meant to be complementary to
>the NEODyS CLOMON impact monitoring system operated in Pisa,
>Italy. Personnel from both the Sentry and NEODyS systems are in
>constant communication, cross checking each other's results and
>providing constructive feedback to continuously improve the
>efficiency, accuracy, and robustness of both systems.

>The Sentry system was developed largely by Drs. Steve Chesley
>and Alan Chamberlin with significant technical help from Dr.
>Paul Chodas.

>Amateur effort? Give them (the scientists involved and NASA) a
>break!

>For independent evidence of the veracity of my statements,
>simply see:

>http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news126.html


Hello Ray S.,

Calm down - too much establishment propaganda is obviously bad
for the temper.

It wasn't me who said "there are more people working in an
average MacDonalds than professional astronomers working on
NEOs"

Which probably explains why many close shaves are glimpsed only
a few days before potential impact and worse, many others are
unknown until _after_ narrow escape. No chance to do anything in
either case.

A 'professional' effort?

Cheers

Ray D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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   Jun > Jun 11

                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:13:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:20:47 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Friday, June 11, 2004 3:51 PM
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>The following was sent to me by a documentary producer friend,
>here, in Toronto.

>ebk

>-----

>From: David Cherniack

>Re. oil well flares and their distance... a phenomenon called
>Atmospheric Refraction should also be taken into account, along
>with their positioning.

>In brief the atmosphere, especially close to the horizon, can
>act like a strong lens especially if there's layer temperature
>differences. In such a case any airforce flight to verify would
>have to be done under similar or same temporal and climatic
>conditions as the original flight.

<snip>

>I'm sure Bruce Macabee is trying to take this into account in
>determining if the fixed configuration of the lights matches the
>positioning of the wells with plumes at that time - though a
>strong lensing effect might make it difficult to do so with any
>accuracy.


Hi David and Errol,

That's okay if you [the observer] are on the ground and the
reflection [we're reffering to temp inversion] takes place and
then only up to about one to one point five degrees above the
horizon. Temperature inversions [warm air over markedly cooler
air] occur close to the ground at about the 1,000 foot level or
slightly higher. The Merlin was at an altitude of 11,000 feet,
tentimes higher.

In any event, even it it were possible, the same "strength of
signal fall-off or decay" rule would apply with a heat source
being reflected around the curvature of the earth. The further
away, the less likely the signature on the FLIR screen would be
strong.


Don Ledger








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   Jun > Jun 11

                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Sparks

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:01:11 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:27:10 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Sparks


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:49 -0400
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:45:36 -0400
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:30:13 -0500
>>>Subject: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

>I was just talking to General August=EDn Mart=EDnez, who is
>responsible for the interdiction operations that stop airplanes
>from carrying drugs into M=E9xico. He told me it is impossible to
>consider oil well flames as a viable explanation because they
>are _too_far_away_ from the area. More than 125 kilometers away
>from where most of the objects were recorded. That is, from the
>City of Carmen and probably more than 200 kilometers from the
>oil wells.

<snip>

Hi John,

That info above is not correct. The only FLIR images in the
right direction for the Cantarell oil wells and below the
horizon were the very first, what I call Group 1. The distance
from the Mexican AF C-26A to the nearest oil well was about 80
km not 200 km. However, these FLIR lights do seem to be at too
great a depression angle, meaning if on the ground they were too
close to the plane (perhaps 20 to 30 miles at most) to be the
oil wells. At that distance they would be in the Laguna de
Terminos east of Ciudad del Carmen not out at sea where the oil
rigs were located. Perhaps if surface detail is used as a
reference frame the FLIR target motion and location with respect
to the ground here can be determined (if any).

The remaining FLIR images, Groups 2-4 could not possibly have
been oil wells since they were all above the horizon of the
earth as seen from the aircraft. They might possibly have been
distant satellite sun reflections of satellites in Molniya-type
orbits or geostationary orbits but this possibility must be
checked as the distances are great, though the slow motions are
consistent. None of the FLIR images dart around like fighter
planes and any swaying effect is due to the FLIR camera operator
zooming or swinging around to check other directions.


Mexican FLIR Groups of Single or Multiple "Lights" or IR Sources

1. NW (295 to 305 degs True) 1645-1649, 1651 (CST), BELOW EARTH HORIZON
2. NW (310 degs True) 1652 to 1709, ABOVE EARTH HORIZON
3. N (350 to 335 degs) 1714 to 1718, ABOVE EARTH HORIZON
4. W (270 to 265 degs) 1722:59 to 1723:42, 1726 to 1728, ABOVE EARTH HORIZON

There is also confusion between radar targets and the FLIR
images in discussions of this case, and these need to be
carefully separated. So far Dr. Bruce Maccabee has been unable
to positively correlate any of the radar targets with the FLIR
images by direction or location. However, it does seem that the
FLIR "light" seen at the time of the 1645 (4:45 PM CST) radar
tracking at 12 o'clock position may be close but the radar
position is not precise enough (an "o'clock" is 30 degrees
wide!) and it does not seem to move relative to the ground or
water according to Bruce. The FLIR data are in degrees not in
the crude and imprecise "o'clock" informal reference system.

There is one point where a radar fix is precise enough to
overcome the looseness of the "o'clock" terminology. It is when
the invisible radar target approaches then passes over Carmen at
1656 (4:56 PM) to within distances of 1-2 miles. The angle
between the radar target and the FLIR target can be precisely
determined as about 15 degrees, not a close match from about 45
miles away. Unfortunately the FLIR is not set on WIDE angle view
at this time but only on doubly-narrow field of view (NRWX2) so
we can only see a quarter degree to the side and cannot see what
was 15 degrees away over Carmen to the left, which was the
fairly high speed 400 mph radar target we are very keenly
interested in.

However we are missing large segments of the in-flight voice
recordings that provide our only source of radar target data.
 Huge gaps in the recording suddenly appear just at the points
where we want to know more. For example, the high speed 400-mph
radar target, the most unexplainable of them all (more
unexplainable than even the FLIR images) is last discussed as
turning over Ciudad del Carmen at 1657 (4:57 PM) but then
suddenly the audio tape cuts off right at that critical moment
and we do not find out what ever happened to this 400-mph radar
blip.


Mexican Radar Targets March 5, 2004 [Incomplete Data]

1642:44-16:43:30: 12 o'clock, 2.9 nm distance, 75 knots
               12 o'clock, 2.3 nm

1645:38-1645:45: 12 o'clock, (2 nm ?), 206 ? knots, heading 301
degs

[Note: This is dead ahead in front of the aircraft and heading
away at almost exactly the Mexican AF plane's own heading of 302
degs True, and speed of about 200 knots. Previous transcript
suggested a 2-mile distance and 106 knot speed]

1653:10-1653:16: 7 o'clock, 10.5 nm, 334 knots, heading 283 degs
              [Previous transcript error put this at 1650.]

1655:45:        "almost" losing it on radar, "almost" off screen

1656:08-1656:26: 1-2 nm from Carmen, range 37 nm

1656:28         0 nm from Carmen

1656:59-1657:19: "lost" then "here it comes" then passing Carmen
                 then "turning right"

1703:39-1703:56: "that thing that is behind us" (6 o'clock?) but is not
                 the same as the FLIR targets at 7-8 o'clock

1707:30-1707:37: radar "blind angle" 20 degrees around FLIR targets
                 at Relative Azimuth -137 degs or 8-9 o'clock (-120 to
                 -90) or in between

1715:49:        1 o'clock, 19 nm, 52 knots

[1715:33: Crewman: "Does that mean we are surrounded?"]

[1716:52: Crewman: "Yes, we are not alone, right. It's true. How
                   strange this is, they are surrounding us."]

1716:55:        1 o'clock, 14.8 nm, 52 knots, heading 99 degs

1717:49:        1 o'clock

1718:15:        1 o'clock, 10 nm, 52 knots
[Crewman: "There is one that is getting near to us."]
[Possible truck on Yucatan Highway 186 at 1 o'clock heading 99
degs.]

1726:34:        2 nm "behind us" (about 6 o'clock?), heading W (?)
                on "opposite course"
1727:11:        1 o'clock new target "now lost"

As I have pointed out earlier, the Mexican AF plane was closing
in on the 60-mph (52 knot) radar target from 1715 to 1718 (5:15
to 5:18 PM), which was apparently a trutck on the Yucatan
Highway 186, and in fact the target's heading of 99 degs would
be just right for a truck on that stretch of Highway 186 as it
would indeed be at about 1 o'clock from the Mexican C-26A and
heading at about 99 degs True azimuth. The rate of overtaking
the target by the faster 230 mph airplane also matches a truck.
 The aircraft would overtake the truck in 4 minutes by 1722 and
then would place the truck in trailing position behind the
plane. Whether the same truck might have become the "behind us"
radar target at 1726 (5:26 PM) or not is uncertain because there
are big gaps in the audio recording that gives us our only radar
data, from 1718 to 1726 (and also for that matter, gaps in the
FLIR tape from 1721-1722 and 1723- 1726). Other trucks and
vehicles may have been picked up on radar.


Regards,

Brad Sparks









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   Jun > Jun 12

                       Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:06:08 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:13:14 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Hall


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:08:17 -0400
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:49 -0400
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:45:36 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>Very good. Did he have anything to say about the possibility of
>>>these being signatures from the waste gas emissions from the oil
>>>wells?

>>Hello Al, Don, All,

>>In the interest of sharing information as it becomes available,
>>I post the following copy of a private correspondence that I
>>received from Jaime Maussan which bears _directly_ on this
>>question of oil well fires.

>>Jaime wrote:

>>I was just talking to General August=EDn Mart=EDnez, who is
>>responsible for the interdiction operations that stop airplanes
>>from carrying drugs into M=E9xico. He told me it is impossible to
>>consider oil well flames as a viable explanation because they
>>are _too_far_away_ from the area. More than 125 kilometers away
>>from where most of the objects were recorded. That is, from the
>>City of Carmen and probably more than 200 kilometers from the
>>oil wells.

>>The _first_ object was spotted over Cd. del Carmen, but just the
>>first one - and that object was traveling fast.

>>General Mart=EDnez is ready to send an airplane close to the
>>flames and record them, but they are more than 75 kms. from the
>>coast.

>Hi John,

>That's a great idea. Glad to see thay are cooperating to such
>lengths. It will probably put that theory to rest. In a recent
>post [moments ago] I expressed doubts about the heat signature
>from the oil wells being that intense over such a great
>distance.

>Let's see what developes. Perhaps Al's source might give some
>insight in that regard.


Don & John,

I hate to throw cold water on something that sounds so
worthwhile, but as I have pointed out in other contexts,
"anonymous science" is an oxymoron. Unless Al's contact is
willing to place his name and credentials on the line for peer
review of his findings, what he says will not convince anyone of
anything (except people who like and want to believe his
conclusions, and that won't be "scientific").

Just as I have observed in studying this subject over the years,
the military people (in this case Mexican) are behaving more
scientifically than the scientists. This is a very noteworthy
phenomenon. Scientists who are unwilling to openly display
curiosity, conduct reasonable tests such as the Mexican AF is
doing, and follow the evidence where it leads, to me are a bunch
of gutless cowards and do not deserve the appellation
"scientist."


 - Dick

P.S. Ask me and I'll tell you what I REALLY think!









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   Jun > Jun 12

             Re: True UFO Believer Hopes You Too Will See Light

From: Colm Kelleher <nids.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:59:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:28:37 -0400
Subject: Re: True UFO Believer Hopes You Too Will See Light


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:16:18 -0400
>Subject: UFO UpDate: True UFO Believer Hopes You Too Will See Light


>Source: The Kansas City Star - Missouri

>http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/8884581.htm?1c

>0610-04


>True UFO Believer Hopes You Too Will See Light

>By Steve Rock
>The Kansas City Star

>REEDS SPRING, Mo. -- Bob White is convinced his story deserves a
>grand stage, that his most-prized possession should be displayed
>before a national audience.

<snip>

Here is the NIDS analysis referred to in the newspaper article.
The verdict? Closely resembles an Aluminum casting alloy. A
terrestrial Aluminum casting alloy.

Colm Kelleher
NIDS

-----

Analysis of Metal Sample

Mr. White, a Missouri resident, provided the National Institute
for Discovery Science (NIDS) a piece of material that he
purportedly obtained under unusual circumstances.

Since the material had not been previously tested, NIDS decided
to have a battery of tests conducted. The material was delivered
to New Mexico Tech, and the tests were conducted under the
direction of Dr. Paul Fuierer, an Assistant Professor in the
Materials Engineering Department. On August 23, 1996, Dr.
Fuierer submitted his analysis, Sample Analysis Report: Sample
#2.

The analysis were double blinded. The following is the entire
text of the report. No conclusions are made by NIDS.

Sample Description

Sample #2 in its as-received condition can be described as a
finger-shaped piece of metal approximately 30 mm long, 7 mm
thick, 18 mm wide at its larger end and 10 mm wide at the
smaller end. The interior of the specimen is silver-white in
color, and highly reflecting. The outside surface has a
tarnished, darker gray appearance with overlapping scale-like
features. The sample mass was 5.11524 g.

Chemical Analysis

A semi-quantitative elemental analysis was obtained using a
Philips 2400 X-ray Fluorescence (wavelength dispersive)
Spectrometer. A scan of the entire bulk sample identified as
major constituents: 85 wt % A1 and 9 wt % Si, and minor
constituents: 2 wt% Fe, 0.9 wt% Ca, 0.7 wt% S, 0.6 wt% C1, and
0.6 wt% Na along with several other elements (see Table I). This
was in agreement with the qualitative analysis done via Energy
Dispersive Spectroscopy (EDS) during the electron microscopy
investigation (next section), which detected aluminum, silicon,
and iron. In terms of its chemical composition, sample #2
appears to be similar to what is known as a "360 aluminum
casting alloy".

Phase Identification

An X-ray diffraction scan was performed on a slice of the sample
with an area of about 1 cm^2. The diffraction pattern is shown
in Fig. 1. A13.21Si0.47 is seen to be an excellent match. This
composition calculates to 86.8 wt% A1 and 13.2 wt% Si, very
close to that of sample #2. The four largest peaks are
attributed to the aluminum metal, while the three small peaks (d
= 3.1349, d = 1.9221, and d = 1.6375) are due to the presence of
silicon. The aluminum peaks are shifted slightly to lower angles
and larger d-spacings, as a result of the incorporation of a
small amount of other larger metallic impurities into the
lattice. The sample can therefore be described as a two-phase
mixture of an aluminum solid solution as the majority phase, and
silicon as a minor phase. This is in agreement with the
equilibrium phase diagram for the Al-Si binary system, shown in
Fig. 2. The composition of sample #2 is close to the eutectic
composition, which is the composition have the lowest melting
point (12.6 % Si according to the published phase diagram).

Microstructural Analysis

Scanning Electron Micropcopy (SEM)

The same slice of sample used for XRD was prepared by grinding
and polishing to a mirror finish, followed by etching with 0.5%
HF acid for 40 sec. Examination under the electron microscope
revealed the microstructure to be quite uniform throughout the
sample. Fig. 3 shows low and high magnification shots of the
prepared surface. The sample contained a large amount of
porosity (darker areas are pits and voids). Also apparent are
the small particles (tenths of microns in size) surrounded by
the continuous matrix material. EDS revealed the small, light
particles to be silicon rich, while the darker gray matrix is
Al-rich, as expected (see Fig. 4).

Optical Microscopy

Two samples were cut for metallographic examination; one sliced
perpendicular to the length of the sample, and one parallel.
These sections were also ground, polished and etched with 0.5%
HF. Fig. 5 shows a couple of low mag shots of the parallel
sample. The high porosity is very apparent, along with the very
fine microstructure. Flow lines are also apparent in these two
shots. The coarse ones are easy to see, outlined by the
porosity. A more subtle flow line can be seen in the 250X shot
upon close examination, defined only by a slight difference in
the density of the darker particles on either side. These kinds
of flow lines are commonly observed in poor sand or die
castings. These are caused by a failure of molten streams of
metal to merge due to poor filling of a mold, incorrect die
lubrication or incorrect injection pressures.

Only under 1000X magnification can one start to pick out
individual black particles (Fig. 6). These tiny black particles
are the same Si particles seen under the SEM as light particles.
Unfortunately, sub-micron sized features approach the
theoretical limit of resolution for a light microscope, and
therefore do not reveal themselves very clearly. However, they
seem to have grouped together in certain locations to form
longer bands, either straight or curved. These are probably
dislocations (highly strained defects in the Al lattice) where
precipitation of a second phase often occurs.

The fine microstructure observed in sample #2 is exactly what
one might expect from a near eutectic composition of the Al and
Si with a significant amount of impurities. Since the eutectic
is rich in aluminum, one would predict an Al-rich solid solution
matrix with isolated particles of silicon... just what we have.
The fact that the Si particles are spheroidized (essentially
equiaxed spherical particles) as opposed to the classic eutectic
lamellar shape (elongated plates or needles) can be explained by
the significant quantity of impurities like Na, Mg, etc. These
are regarded as modifiers in metal alloy technology, which alter
surface energies and affect the morphology of the second phase
silicon.

Putting all of the above microstructural observations together,
one can surmise that the metal was being deformed (pushed or
blown) as it cooled from the molten state through the eutectic
temperature (~ 577 degrees C) and solidified. It probably cooled
fairly rapidly since the Si particles are rather small. Also the
alloy may have been undercooled such that excess Si was left in
solid solution, and then later precipitated out at the
dislocations during either normal or artificial aging.

Physical Properties

Density

Bulk density of the sample was measured based on the Archimedes
Principle by immersion in toluene. The mass, while immersed,
increased over a long period of time, finally stabilizing after
3 hours, indicative of a highly porous sample. The density of
sample #2 was calculated to be 2.47 g/cm^3. This is 91% of that
of the theoretical density of pure A1 (2.71 g/cm^3). This is not
surprising, considering the presence of undisolved silicon (2.33
g/cm^3) and significant amount of void space observed under the
microscope.

Hardness

The same samples (both perpendicular and parallel cuts) used for
optical microscopy were used to measure hardness. A Vickers
Hardness number was obtained from a Leco Tester using a diamond
tip micro-indenter. Five indentations were made for each sample.
The size of the resulting indentations were measured under the
light microscope, and averaged. This average value, along with
the known applied load were used to come up with the Vicker's
Hardness number. For the perpendicular cut, VH = 60. For the
parallel cut, VH = 62. The difference is probably within
experimental error. These values are slightly higher than pure
aluminum, and typical for aluminum alloys.

Stiffness

An attempt was made to prepare a specimen for measuring the
strength and stiffness (elastic modulus) of sample #2 using an
Instron machine, however; the sample proved to be to small.

Electrical Properties

A four-point probe must be used for accurate measurement for
highly conducting materials like metals. For this, a rectangular
slab sample was cut and polished to dimensions: length = 11.16
mm, width = 3.36 mm, and thickness = 0.38 mm. A digital
multimeter was used to measure the current (provided by a
constant current source) through the length of the sample, while
an electrometer was used to measure the voltage drop (to the
nearest 0.00001 V) across a length of the slab. The resistivity
of sample #2 was measured to be 2.90 x 10^-5 Ohm-cm. This is
about an order of magnitude higher than that of pure aluminum (3
x 10^-6 Ohm-cm) and five times higher than that of 360 Al alloy
(6x10^-6 Ohm-cm). This is completely reasonable, considering the
large number of Si particles, dislocation lines, and amount of
porosity.

Summary and Conclusions

Results from the analysis of sample #2 are quite conclusive. The
specimen is an aluminum-silicon alloy, with a substantial amount
of variety of impurities, including iron, calcium, sulfur,
chlorine, sodium, magnesium and others. The composition is one
that could be used as an aluminum casting alloy. The closest
commercial material has the trade name "360 alloy" [Lyman,
1961]. This is a die casting alloy used in applications where
excellent castability and resistance to corrosion are required.
It is used for miscellaneous thin-walled and intricate castings.
Since this type of alloy is very close to the eutectic (lowest
melting) composition, it has excellent fluidity at relatively
low temperatures.

The microstructure of the sample is one to be expected from the
composition: second phase eutectic silicon particles in a matrix
of aluminum solid solution. However, due to a few undesirable
structural characteristics, it would be regarded as a poorly
cast aluminum alloy when compared with published micrographs of
commercial materials [Lyman, 1972]. The large amount of porosity
would certainly lead to a decreased strength and decreased
corrosion resistance. The presence of porosity together with the
apparent flow lines suggests that uncontrolled cooling took
place. The significant amount of impurities like sodium accounts
for the fineness and rounded nature of the silicon particles,
rather than the larger, longer, more angular particules usually
observed. Dislocations (planes of slip caused by plastic
deformation) appear to be decorated by silicon particles. In
many cases, these dislocations follow the flow lines. This
suggests some forced flow during solidification of the melt (in
the range of temperatures 600 degrees C to 575 degrees C).

There are no anomalies in the results of this analysis. The
detected phases are accounted for, and the microstructure lends
itself to standard metallurgical interpretation. The physical
properties that were measured (density, hardness, and electrical
resistivity) all fall within the expected range.

References

Lyman, T. (editor), "Properties and Selection of Metals", Vol. 1
in Metals Handbook, American Society for Metals (1961).

Lyman, T. (editor), "Atlas of Microstructures of Industrial
Alloys", Vol. 7 in Metals Handbook, American Society for Metals
(1972).

Lyman, T. (editor), "Metallography, Structures and Phase
Diagrams", Vol. 8 in Metals Handbook, American Society for
Metals (1973).

Mondolfo, L.R., Aluminum Alloys: Structure and Properties,
Butterworth Inc. (1976).







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   Jun > Jun 12

                           Prickly Paradigm Press

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:07:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:43:01 -0400
Subject: Prickly Paradigm Press


Source: Prickly Paradigm Press

http://www.prickly-paradigm.com/index.html


Tools And Technology

Prickly Paradigm Press is devoted to giving serious authors free reign
to say what's right and what's wrong about their disciplines and about
the world, including what's never been said before.


-----

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress."
--Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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                       Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:01:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 08:01:23 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Velez


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:01:11 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:49 -0400
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

>>I was just talking to General August=92n Mart=92nez, who is
>>responsible for the interdiction operations that stop airplanes
>>from carrying drugs into M=8Exico. He told me it is impossible to
>>consider oil well flames as a viable explanation because they
>>are _too_far_away_ from the area. More than 125 kilometers away
>>from where most of the objects were recorded. That is, from the
>>City of Carmen and probably more than 200 kilometers from the
>>oil wells.

><snip>

Hi Brad, All,

You wrote:

>Hi John,

>That info above is not correct. The only FLIR images in the
>right direction for the Cantarell oil wells and below the
>horizon were the very first, what I call Group 1. The distance
>from the Mexican AF C-26A to the nearest oil well was about 80
>km not 200 km. However, these FLIR lights do seem to be at too
>great a depression angle, meaning if on the ground they were too
>close to the plane (perhaps 20 to 30 miles at most) to be the
>oil wells. At that distance they would be in the Laguna de
>Terminos east of Ciudad del Carmen not out at sea where the oil
>rigs were located. Perhaps if surface detail is used as a
>reference frame the FLIR target motion and location with respect
>to the ground here can be determined (if any).

This is why it so important for the military to conduct this
test flight with the FLIR system centered on the oil fires.
Approaching and flying away. It'll settle a lot of questions
that have been raised about the fires.

In terms of the 'numbers being wrong,' I was only doing a
copy/paste of a note I received from Jaime. You'll have to
forward your critique to Gen. Martinez. I have no idea 'which'
wells, (of the many in the area) he was specifically referring
to when mentioning the 200 km. distance.

>The remaining FLIR images, Groups 2-4 could not possibly have
>been oil wells since they were all above the horizon of the
>earth as seen from the aircraft. They might possibly have been
>distant satellite sun reflections of satellites in Molniya-type
>orbits or geostationary orbits but this possibility must be
>checked as the distances are great, though the slow motions are
>consistent. None of the FLIR images dart around like fighter
>planes and any swaying effect is due to the FLIR camera operator
>zooming or swinging around to check other directions.

I kinda thought we had put this satellite theory to rest a week
or so ago when it was pointed out that; at the distances
involved; given the density of atmosphere that would have to be
penetrated at low/inconvenient angles; it would be pretty
incredible for the FLIR to pick up an IR signature as intense as
the ones recorded, from a distant satellite(s) observed at
admittedly inconvenient viewing angle(s).

>There is one point where a radar fix is precise enough to
>overcome the looseness of the "o'clock" terminology. It is when
>the invisible radar target approaches then passes over Carmen at
>1656 (4:56 PM) to within distances of 1-2 miles. The angle
>between the radar target and the FLIR target can be precisely
>determined as about 15 degrees, not a close match from about 45
>miles away. Unfortunately the FLIR is not set on WIDE angle view
>at this time but only on doubly-narrow field of view (NRWX2) so
>we can only see a quarter degree to the side and cannot see what
>was 15 degrees away over Carmen to the left, which was the
>fairly high speed 400 mph radar target we are very keenly
>interested in.

Bruce Maccabee is also homing in on this particular object.

>However we are missing large segments of the in-flight voice
>recordings that provide our only source of radar target data.
>Huge gaps in the recording suddenly appear just at the points
>where we want to know more. For example, the high speed 400-mph
>radar target, the most unexplainable of them all (more
>unexplainable than even the FLIR images) is last discussed as
>turning over Ciudad del Carmen at 1657 (4:57 PM) but then
>suddenly the audio tape cuts off right at that critical moment
>and we do not find out what ever happened to this 400-mph radar
>blip.

I am trying hard to discern what is being said underneath an
annoying and conversation masking telephone tone that
starts, in the recording, at 16:48:26

Beneath the dial-tone, but still audible, is the radar guy
calling out his readings on the object in question; speed,
heading and I assume distance as well. I'm going to listen to it
as many times as needed to see if I can tickle out what he's
saying.

>As I have pointed out earlier, the Mexican AF plane was closing
>in on the 60-mph (52 knot) radar target from 1715 to 1718 (5:15
>to 5:18 PM), which was apparently a trutck on the Yucatan
>Highway 186, and in fact the target's heading of 99 degs would
>be just right for a truck on that stretch of Highway 186 as it
>would indeed be at about 1 o'clock from the Mexican C-26A and
>heading at about 99 degs True azimuth.

Brad, I don't think you're giving the crew any credit for having
enough 'on-the-job' experience to tell the difference between a
'truck' or other moving object on the ground and an 'unknown'
object/objects in the air. Oil well fires, trucks, satellites,
if this was really the case, these folks would spend all of
their time in the air trying to figure out what it is they're
looking at - rather than _identifying_ and reporting narcotics-
running bad-guys.

We still have a ways to go with this one. I would like to thank
you and everyone else who is taking the time to do a little
research and analysis on this one, for your time and effort.

=46rom what I have observed, the 'UFO community' (whatever that
is,) has done a much more competent job of analyzing this case
than anyone in the larger academic/scientific community has done
so far. All we've seen from any of them is the regurgitation of
the 'usual suspect' kind of (knee-jerk) responses we are already
so used to receiving from those quarters.

Jerry Clark once said, "in the future 'science' will be judged
harshly for its total failure to properly examine the phenomena
surrounding/associated with, UFOs."

I agree.

Best,

John Velez








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   Jun > Jun 12

             Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:39:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 08:15:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced? - Stanford


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:43:36 +0100
>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:10:33 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

>>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:08:45 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Was Area 51 Caller Really Silenced?

><snip>

>>>The most vital research is that concerning the future of the
>>>human race but our rulers (& media) have shown they are more
>>>interested in immediate power & wealth. In your own words (from
>>>your last NEO post) both real ufology and the monitoring of NEOs
>>>remain "the domain of the amateurs."

>>>Everybody out there, your info is welcome...

>>O.K., Mr. Dickenson (and Steven Kaeser), I suggest you
>>investigate first, in order to prevent making such absolutely
>>inaccurate statements.

>>NASA's Near-Earth Object Program Office has its Sentry automatic
>>impact monitoring system. In development for nearly two years,
>>Sentry is a highly automated, accurate, and robust system for
>>continually updating the orbits, future close Earth approaches,
>>and Earth impact probabilities for all Near-Earth Asteroids
>>(NEAs).

>>Furthermore, the Sentry system is meant to be complementary to
>>the NEODyS CLOMON impact monitoring system operated in Pisa,
>>Italy. Personnel from both the Sentry and NEODyS systems are in
>>constant communication, cross checking each other's results and
>>providing constructive feedback to continuously improve the
>>efficiency, accuracy, and robustness of both systems.

>>The Sentry system was developed largely by Drs. Steve Chesley
>>and Alan Chamberlin with significant technical help from Dr.
>>Paul Chodas.

>>Amateur effort? Give them (the scientists involved and NASA) a
>>break!

>>For independent evidence of the veracity of my statements,
>>simply see:

>>http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news126.html

>Hello Ray S.,

>Calm down - too much establishment propaganda is obviously bad
>for the temper.

>It wasn't me who said "there are more people working in an
>average MacDonalds than professional astronomers working on
>NEOs"

I never referred to that statement.

>Which probably explains why many close shaves are glimpsed only
>a few days before potential impact and worse, many others are
>unknown until _after_ narrow escape. No chance to do anything in
>either case.

>A 'professional' effort?

Mr. Dickenson, you are a person who is not very open to
correction of errors.

There's nothing for me to calm down about. I was merely
correcting your error when you echoed Steven's statement by
saying, "In your own words both real ufology and the monitoring
of NEOs remain 'the domain of the amateurs'."

You are the one who perhaps should calm down. You seem pretty
excited about a little correction.

I repeat what I said, earlier, which you deliberately deleted
from your response, above:

The Sentry system was developed largely by Drs. Steve Chesley
and Alan Chamberlin with significant technical help from Dr.
Paul Chodas.

By every definition of the word "professional", those three men
are professional scientists (please note that each has a Ph.D.,
too) who are making every effort (within limitations placed on
the project by NASA administration, due to funding constraints)
to give us advanced warning of dangers from any detected NEOs.
 The truth is that you don't know anything about the Sentry
system, as proven by the ignorance of it displayed in your
original post.

It is unwise to begrudge learning, especially when you have
commented inaccurately on a subject.

I challenge your implication that those scientists are
incompetent and non-professional. Give us one stitch of
evidence they are not professional scientists, or even that they
are somehow acting "unprofessionally".

Otherwise, cease trying to defame professional scientists of
whose work you are totally ignorant.

****

For anyone who, unlike Mr. Dickenson, would like to learn a few
facts about the Sentry system before condemning or praising it,
please click on:

http://spaceguard.esa.int/tumblingstone/issues/num12/eng/2002cu11.htm

Then, scroll down to the heading:

"Sentry: a monitoring system from NASA to the web"

At this stage of the science of NEO detection and orbital
determination, there are bound to be some failures. It is
science, not the magic which Dickenson seems to demand of any
detection system. If NASA had unlimited (or at least more) funds
for such, I'm sure a more perfect system of detection and
determination could be established.

My point is that professionals are working as best they can on
the problem, so instead of blaming scientists who are working
diligently with the means allowed them, blame any inadequacy on
a congress that, whether in wisdom or in folly, tends far more
to worry about fantasized or real terrestrial weapons of mass
destruction, instead of the unquestionably REAL (even if not
imminent) threat of asteroidal or some other cosmic impact.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 12

                Re: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 04:13:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 08:22:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:44:42 -0500 (CDT)
>Subject: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz Factor'?

>A very unusual Close Encounter with possible "Oz factor"
>experiences reported by the witnesses was reported to me last
>night. Here's the account:

>Winnipeg, MB
>June 8, 2004 3:30 am

>Two people were delivering early-morning newspapers in south-
>central Winnipeg when they saw a bright light moving in the
>sky, apparently approaching them. As they were placing
>newspapers in sidewalk boxes, the witnesses were shocked to see
>the object noiselessly fly over their car and come to a stop,
>hovering only "three or four stories high" above them. As they
>dropped off their papers, the object "shot off to the west" and
>disappeared from sight. The two witnesses quickly got in their
>car and drove away to another newspaper box location less than a
>kilometre away. As they delivered their next bundle, they were
>terrified to see an "oblong" object with white lights moving
>around its middle rise up from the ground behind a heavily treed
>area and begin to fly towards them.

>"It was definitely not a plane or anything else," one witness
>exclaimed. "I saw it very clearly, and it was something very
>strange."

>The object made no noise as it swooped over their car. In fact,
>the witnesses noted that their surroundings had taken on a very
>eerie character, as there were no other cars on the streets, and
>not even a single pedestrian walking a dog.

>"Usually, we see some sporadic traffic, even at this hour," a
>witness said. "But there was absolutely no one around at all. It
>was like a ghost town in the middle of the city."

>They drove and parked their car at an all-night coffee shop and
>ran into the store as the object flew over the building. They
>convinced the proprietor to go outside with them and take a
>look, but when they came out, the object had retreated and was
>now only a bright light in the distance. After a short while,
>the two original witnesses calmed down and continued on their
>rounds.

>About an hour later, as they were delivering more papers, they
>looked up to see "a strange plane" with no windows fly slowly
>overhead, making an odd whirring noise. They saw two more
>unusual aircraft flying in the sky, and then, "suddenly,
>everything changed and there were other cars around, people
>walking and ordinary planes were flying over us."

>The witnesses were very frightened by their experience, and
>could not sleep well during the day after their night shift.
>They eventually contacted CFB Winnipeg later in the evening,
>and were referred to UFOROM.

>Investigation continuing.


Hello Chris:

That is one interesting case! I left your entire account in full
above, I wouldn't know where to snip it.

Have you learned any more about this yet? I would be especially
interested in the apparent credibility of the witnesses of
course, I'm sure you have the same concerns.

If I do list the case, I will have a tough time trying to boil
it down to my standard one-line synopsis... that much
is for sure.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch











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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 12

                     Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 13:30:20 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:06:08 +0000
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:08:17 -0400
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:49 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>Don & John,

>I hate to throw cold water on something that sounds so
>worthwhile, but as I have pointed out in other contexts,
>"anonymous science" is an oxymoron. Unless Al's contact is
>willing to place his name and credentials on the line for peer
>review of his findings, what he says will not convince anyone of
>anything (except people who like and want to believe his
>conclusions, and that won't be "scientific").

>Just as I have observed in studying this subject over the years,
>the military people (in this case Mexican) are behaving more
>scientifically than the scientists. This is a very noteworthy
>phenomenon. Scientists who are unwilling to openly display
>curiosity, conduct reasonable tests such as the Mexican AF is
>doing, and follow the evidence where it leads, to me are a bunch
>of gutless cowards and do not deserve the appellation
>"scientist."

>- Dick

>P.S. Ask me and I'll tell you what I REALLY think!

Hello Dick, List,

While I agree that supportive noises from anonymous scientists
is of little or no value, I personally am not surprised that
they keep ufology at arm's length. Just look at the treatment of
the Mexican scientists by Santiago Yturria at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m14-027.shtml

when they do express some curiosity. His remarks are in response
to media articles about the interest shown by Rafael Navarro,
Julio Herrera, Armando Arellano Ferro, and Jose de Jesus Franco
Lopez. Instead of approaching these accomplished scientists and
asking for their active participation, Yturria attributes
definitive statements as to what the cause of the sighting was
to them, then accuses them of not knowing what they are talking
about, contradicting each other, and having a reckless attitude.
All this AFAIK without ascertaining the accuracy of the media
reports with the individuals concerned in his own country.

I have tried to contact each one of them from the UK and have a
response from Julio Herrera, in which he states:

"We were trying to put forward some possible explanations to the
March 5th event, based on fragmentary information we had about
it. We believe that it's certainly necessary to keep looking for
alternative explanations, until a reasonable conclusion can be
reached".

Is this not the approach that all ufologists should take?

Herrera concludes his reply to me with the following:

"Since the Mexican Air Force is the only one which has the full
FLIR and radar information, I believe it's their responsibility
to reach a conclusion."

Reading between the lines, this suggests to me that he is
perplexed by the Military's decision not to involve scientists
in the analysis of the evidence, and is reluctant to take any
further part in the "investigation" currently being run by a
media presenter with a vested interest in producing an anomalous
conclusion. Who can blame him for that, especially with the
response from the ufological camp and the media to his
scientific approach?


Regards,

Joe








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 12

                     Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 08:18:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:13:16 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Lehmberg


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:06:08 +0000
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:08:17 -0400
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:49 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

>>Let's see what developes. Perhaps Al's source might give some
>>insight in that regard.

>Don & John,

>I hate to throw cold water on something that sounds so
>worthwhile, but as I have pointed out in other contexts,
>"anonymous science" is an oxymoron. Unless Al's contact is
>willing to place his name and credentials on the line for peer
>review of his findings, what he says will not convince anyone of
>anything (except people who like and want to believe his
>conclusions, and that won't be "scientific").

...Way to look a gift horse in the mouth, Mr. Hall. Discredit
without saying anything discrediting... a neat trick. That
you're absolutely correct, of course, is the top quality strip
of bacon toothpicked to your filet mignon...

...But it's fish on the menu, Mr. Hall. ...Fresh fish chock full
of Omega Three and certified (by me!) safe enough to eat raw!

I'm a former military guy, Sir, with over a double nickel's
worth honorable behavior and some good references (which may
even include you!) right here on this board. I'm in contact with
top-drawer military guys who can, from time to time, provide
significant input on our interests. It appears this may be one
of those times. It would seem to me that any information such as
is described here would be welcome more than airily discounted
as mere hearsay and "anonymous science."

I provide a pertinent report about a well established, highly
regarded, and very experienced expert in FLIR technology and
associated hardware who says that the images _he_ saw were
completely beyond his experience! That is significantly more
than merely "sounding" worthwhile, Mr. Hall, and a step away
from "anonymous science". It should raise neck-hair! Moreover,
_I'm_ not anonymous, Sir! I stand by what I stand by. Sometimes
I'm wrong, and I pay for it... but I'm loath to let something
potentially productive slide by out of timid self-interest.

That the expert in question is reluctant to be identified is not
the disease at all but only a symptom of a disease. I've been
ash-heaped for my interests in this area and it _may_ be that he
is reluctant to tempt same. We won't be blaming him... in any
case, he's still brave enough to talk to me, and push come to
shove (?) taken to the wire (?) I could roll my source up into a
tight tube and gouge out a skeptibunky eye... readily, gladly,
enthusiastically! Finally -- it was merely an observation, a
report on same, and taken all by itself? It _is_ science.

>Just as I have observed in studying this subject over the years,
>the military people (in this case Mexican) are behaving more
>scientifically than the scientists. This is a very noteworthy
>phenomenon. Scientists who are unwilling to openly display
>curiosity, conduct reasonable tests such as the Mexican AF is
>doing, and follow the evidence where it leads, to me are a bunch
>of gutless cowards and do not deserve the appellation
>"scientist."

It's all about "wavoes rancheros," Mr. Hall, ain't it? You and
the Mexicans (et al) demonstrate your share. You'll pardon me as
I display _my_ familiarity with the recipe!

Mainstream science has no "Dick" on all the significant levels,
Sir, while we remain apologetic to _it_ for its intransigence.
That's insane... after it's cowardly.

Mainstream science should be shining your _shoes_,Sir. I'll
hold them to that account, even as you won't.

>- Dick

>P.S. Ask me and I'll tell you what I REALLY think!

You've been so served, Mr Hall.


alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net
...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

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   Jun > Jun 12

                Re: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:08:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:15:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 04:13:02 -0700
>Subject: Re: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz Factor'?

>>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:44:42 -0500 (CDT)
>>Subject: Disc-Shaped UFO Swoops Over Winnipeg 'Oz Factor'?

>>A very unusual Close Encounter with possible "Oz factor"
>>experiences reported by the witnesses was reported to me last
>>night. Here's the account:

>>Winnipeg, MB
>>June 8, 2004 3:30 am

>>Two people were delivering early-morning newspapers in south-
>>central Winnipeg when they saw a bright light moving in the
>>sky, apparently approaching them. As they were placing
>>newspapers in sidewalk boxes, the witnesses were shocked to see
>>the object noiselessly fly over their car and come to a stop,
>>hovering only "three or four stories high" above them. As they
>>dropped off their papers, the object "shot off to the west" and
>>disappeared from sight. The two witnesses quickly got in their
>>car and drove away to another newspaper box location less than a
>>kilometre away. As they delivered their next bundle, they were
>>terrified to see an "oblong" object with white lights moving
>>around its middle rise up from the ground behind a heavily treed
>>area and begin to fly towards them.

>>"It was definitely not a plane or anything else," one witness
>>exclaimed. "I saw it very clearly, and it was something very
>>strange."

>>The object made no noise as it swooped over their car. In fact,
>>the witnesses noted that their surroundings had taken on a very
>>eerie character, as there were no other cars on the streets, and
>>not even a single pedestrian walking a dog.

>>"Usually, we see some sporadic traffic, even at this hour," a
>>witness said. "But there was absolutely no one around at all. It
>>was like a ghost town in the middle of the city."

>>They drove and parked their car at an all-night coffee shop and
>>ran into the store as the object flew over the building. They
>>convinced the proprietor to go outside with them and take a
>>look, but when they came out, the object had retreated and was
>>now only a bright light in the distance. After a short while,
>>the two original witnesses calmed down and continued on their
>>rounds.

>>About an hour later, as they were delivering more papers, they
>>looked up to see "a strange plane" with no windows fly slowly
>>overhead, making an odd whirring noise. They saw two more
>>unusual aircraft flying in the sky, and then, "suddenly,
>>everything changed and there were other cars around, people
>>walking and ordinary planes were flying over us."
>
>>The witnesses were very frightened by their experience, and
>>could not sleep well during the day after their night shift.
>>They eventually contacted CFB Winnipeg later in the evening,
>>and were referred to UFOROM.

>>Investigation continuing.

>Hello Chris:

>That is one interesting case! I left your entire account in full
>above, I wouldn't know where to snip it.

>Have you learned any more about this yet? I would be especially
>interested in the apparent credibility of the witnesses of
>course, I'm sure you have the same concerns.

>If I do list the case, I will have a tough time trying to boil
>it down to my standard one-line synopsis... that much
>is for sure.


Hi All,

Just an aside...

One, of many odd details that arose out of the half-dozen or so
hypnosis sessions I did with Budd Hopkins is very closely
related to what is being reported by the witnesses from
Winnipeg. That Chris amusingly refers to as the "Oz factor".

Mind you, I don't put much stock in anything that is retrieved
via hypnosis, but like it or not, there it all is. I only
mention this detail now because of its corroborative relevance
to this specific report. The devil is in the details - or so
they say.

July 1994- While vacationing in Pensacola, Fla.

I was staying in a room that was located on the second floor of
a motel. There was a cement cat-walk with a wrought iron railing
that ran the entire length of the building at that level.
Accompanied by two, small Greys, I am exiting a fairly large,
glowing sphere that is hovering in the air about 15' or so
directly across from the motels' cat-walk.

With one Grey in front of me and another behind me, in a line,
we floated out of the craft and straight across toward the cat-
walk. Upon exiting, I became aware of an unusual silence which
was accompanied by the mind-blowing sight of a couple of people
below me who are standing perfectly still. As if frozen in mid-
stride. Nothing is moving. With the exception of myself and the
Greys.

This business of 'time' and or 'space' being manipulated
somehow, (maybe just our perception of it, who knows,) in
conjunction with UFO related encounters comes up often enough in
the reports to justify giving it its own label/name. ie; the 'Oz
factor'. It's all conjecture and pure speculation at this point
but... if certain details continue to crop up often enough in
the reports to grab the attention of long-time observers of the
phenomena, the details, no matter how peculiar we may judge them
to be, should be considered by all interested parties to be
'potentially' very important.

Best,

John











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                     Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 15:49:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:18:59 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Maccabee


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:01:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

A number of people have been suggesting explanations for the
FLIR video images. Many of them have been basing their
conclusions on the *preliminary* data and analysis compilation
that I have sent to several people or on the original video
"documentary" that was published by Jaime Maussan and Santiago
Ytturia.

More information (translation) is becoming available. Hence any
conclusions as stated must be considered 'temporary'. I don't
think anyone can prove anything yet. However, I will say that it
seems that the radar target and the FLIR "lights" were not in
the same direction. The only 'conclusion' I could make at the
present time is (a) some or all of the FLIR image "lights" _may_
turn out to be heat sources or solar reflections from the ground
and (b) the radar target _may_ turn out to be unexplainable.

One hopes that these 'Charlie Brown'-type conclusions - wishy-
washy - can be firmed up in the near future.








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                       Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:26:42 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:25:29 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Hall


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:06:08 +0000
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:08:17 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

>Hello Dick, List,

>While I agree that supportive noises from anonymous scientists
>is of little or no value, I personally am not surprised that
>they keep ufology at arm's length. Just look at the treatment of
>the Mexican scientists by Santiago Yturria at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m14-027.shtml

>when they do express some curiosity. His remarks are in response
>to media articles about the interest shown by Rafael Navarro,
>Julio Herrera, Armando Arellano Ferro, and Jose de Jesus Franco
>Lopez. Instead of approaching these accomplished scientists and
>asking for their active participation, Yturria attributes
>definitive statements as to what the cause of the sighting was
>to them, then accuses them of not knowing what they are talking
>about, contradicting each other, and having a reckless attitude.
>All this AFAIK without ascertaining the accuracy of the media
>reports with the individuals concerned in his own country.

>I have tried to contact each one of them from the UK and have a
>response from Julio Herrera, in which he states:

>"We were trying to put forward some possible explanations to the
>March 5th event, based on fragmentary information we had about
>it. We believe that it's certainly necessary to keep looking for
>alternative explanations, until a reasonable conclusion can be
>reached".

>Is this not the approach that all ufologists should take?

Joe,

The short answer is "no". All I hear him saying is let's pin a
label on it, and they (Mexican AF) have all the data so it's
their job to find an explanation - below. That's buckpassing,
pure and simple. Where is his scientific curiosity? Why does he
not ask the Mexican AF for the data to analyze instead of just
guessing around? Why is he not advocating scientific approaches
to investigating the case for others if he is not curious enough
to do so himself? No, he just engages in the time honored
unscientific guesswork (not science) to explain away something
that he assumes in advance must have a prosaic explanation. This
is not science.

What Yturria says and does is irrelevant. All too many
scientists are fond of pointing a finger at and criticizing
less-than-scientific ufologists rather than confronting the data
themselves.

Forget Yturria; look at the damn[ed] data!


  - Dick








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                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:51:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:28:51 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

>While I agree that supportive noises from anonymous scientists
>is of little or no value, I personally am not surprised that
>they keep ufology at arm's length. Just look at the treatment of
>the Mexican scientists by Santiago Yturria at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m14-027.shtml

>when they do express some curiosity. His remarks are in response
>to media articles about the interest shown by Rafael Navarro,
>Julio Herrera, Armando Arellano Ferro, and Jose de Jesus Franco
>Lopez. Instead of approaching these accomplished scientists and
>asking for their active participation, Yturria attributes
>definitive statements as to what the cause of the sighting was
>to them, then accuses them of not knowing what they are talking
>about, contradicting each other, and having a reckless attitude.
>All this AFAIK without ascertaining the accuracy of the media
>reports with the individuals concerned in his own country.

>I have tried to contact each one of them from the UK and have a
>response from Julio Herrera, in which he states:

>"We were trying to put forward some possible explanations to the
>March 5th event, based on fragmentary information we had about
>it. We believe that it's certainly necessary to keep looking for
>alternative explanations, until a reasonable conclusion can be
>reached".

>Is this not the approach that all ufologists should take?

>Herrera concludes his reply to me with the following:

>"Since the Mexican Air Force is the only one which has the full
>FLIR and radar information, I believe it's their responsibility
>to reach a conclusion."

>Reading between the lines, this suggests to me that he is
>perplexed by the Military's decision not to involve scientists
>in the analysis of the evidence, and is reluctant to take any
>further part in the "investigation" currently being run by a
>media presenter with a vested interest in producing an anomalous
>conclusion. Who can blame him for that, especially with the
>response from the ufological camp and the media to his
>scientific approach?


Yeah Joe, unless the shoe is on the other foot. Ever heard the
expression, "What goes around comes around"? You said it
yourself, it was a response to fragmentary information. The
information wasn't that fragmentary that they could postulate
[plasma sparks] ball lightning. Ball lightning that went on for
15 minutes?

They mentioned they could make it in a laboratory. I make pizza
in an oven but have yet to see one when I'm flying.

Joe, we know where you are coming from. You case is double
speak. You would take just the opposite track if the scientists
had claimed these were truly anomalous and required further
study, a study that is years behind in importance.

You are obviously oblivious to the other studies being done, by
those who have spent more than ten minutes studying the
phenomenon.

Your scientists decided - it appears - to leave it to the
military, leaving the ball in their court. At least the latter
is co-operating.

I realize there is a need for you to get in on this fast to
start damage control [to whom, or what one wonders] but why not
for a change, let it play out?


Don Ledger








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                        UK Abduction Study Extension

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 01:26:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:30:08 -0400
Subject: UK Abduction Study Extension


The United Kingdom's first scientific study into alien
abductions started earlier this year. The study is being carried
out by psychologists from Goldsmiths College, University of
London. It involves administering a range of standard
psychological tests, and testing for the psychic abilities often
reported by abductees. Identical tests will be given to a
control sample matched by age and gender. Finally, detailed
interviews will obtain data that may inform subsequent studies.

The study has been extended and the testing and interview phase
will now continue until the end of July. Any UK-based abductees,
contactees or experiencers who have not taken part therefore
have a few more weeks to participate, should they wish.

I've had feedback from a few participants, all of whom told me
that they were treated with respect and empathy, and said that
they welcomed the opportunity to speak frankly about their
experiences.

Witness confidentiality is guaranteed and pseudonyms may be used
if requested.

Any abductees interested in taking part are invited to discuss
the matter with Julia Santomauro, either by emailing her at
apru.nul or by telephoning her on 020 7919 7171,
extension 4389.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 20:30:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:38:03 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Yturria


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:06:08 +0000
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:08:17 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:49 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>Don & John,

>>I hate to throw cold water on something that sounds so
>>worthwhile, but as I have pointed out in other contexts,
>>"anonymous science" is an oxymoron. Unless Al's contact is
>>willing to place his name and credentials on the line for peer
>>review of his findings, what he says will not convince anyone of
>>anything (except people who like and want to believe his
>>conclusions, and that won't be "scientific").

>>P.S. Ask me and I'll tell you what I REALLY think!

>Hello Dick, List,

>While I agree that supportive noises from anonymous scientists
>is of little or no value, I personally am not surprised that
>they keep ufology at arm's length. Just look at the treatment of
>the Mexican scientists by Santiago Yturria at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m14-027.shtml


Mr. McGonagle,

As you mentioned my post I have a right to reply. It find your
statements inaccurate and not updated. For your information two
weeks ago Rafael Navarro from the UNAM finally had a meeting
with the SEDENA officials to be briefed about the March 5, 2004
Campeche incident.

The scientist was shown the FLIR footage and was given all the
exact data from the Merlin C26. The meeting took place trying to
find a scientific explanation if any to the very unusual
phenomena. After the footage was shown and some talks were made
Rafael Navarro expressed his thoughts about the Flir images
asserting that his perspective of what they initially proposed
as the posible cause for the Flir images has changed and
expressed his interest to study and analyze the images and data
more carefully.

>Instead of approaching these accomplished scientists and
>asking for their active participation

Rodolfo Garrido offered Rafael Navarro to give them the footage
and to discuss the Flir images. Rafael Navarro and the others
refused categorically saying they would wait for the SEDENA to
contact them. Were you aware of this Mr.McGonagle? Now how do
you define the scientists posture to this open invitation?
Would'nt you say they reacted with arrogance refusing any
dialogue?

The four UNAM teachers even refused to talk to the National
Meteorologic Sevices to request the March 5, 2004 meteorological
charts for the Campeche zone according to the required
proccedure to reach a conclusion based on a meteorological
phenomena. Do you think Mr. Gonagle that this attitude was
responsible and professional?

It seems to me Mr.McGonagle that you are making assupmtions not
based on facts but just what you read on the Internet. It's
better to ask us before spreading disinformation.

>Is this not the approach that all ufologists should take?

You talk of approach? As far as we know you have never
approached us, nor Jaime Maussan, Rodolfo Garrido or myself to
request information, updates on the case, doubts or discuss any
issue regarding this investigation despite the fact you know
very well where to find any of us.

Instead you send a post saying inaccurate and disconcerting
statements that don't correspond with the actual status of this
case. We will appreciate that you contact any of us directly as
many friends researchers and collagues around the world so we
can exchange all the ACTUAL updates on this investigation. We
have been very open since the beguinning and we have proved this
fact. Unless your motives are personal on this case and our
mexican UFO disclosure was not of your pleasure I will be ready
anytime to talk to you and discuss any issue directly, just
contact me.


Santiago Yturria








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             Re: 'Aliens Have Been Around For Years' - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:34:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:11:44 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Aliens Have Been Around For Years' - Stevenson


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Friday, June 11, 2004 5:06 PM
>Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Aliens Have Been Around For Years'

>Source: The Huddersfield Weekly News - Yorkshire, UK

http://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0330features/tm_objectid=14324411
%26method=full%26siteid=50060%26headline=-aliens-have-been-around-for-years--nam
e_page.html

>06-11-04

>'Aliens Have Been Around For Years'

>By The Huddersfield Daily Examiner

>Kiril Kanew, who is President of the Bulgarian Foundation for
>the Search for Cosmic Life and head of the UFO watchers group
>Contact, has announced the launch of an intergalactic currency.

>He has called it the galacto.

<snip>

>Sounds a great alternative to Alzheimer's and an old-age
>pension. Na noo, na noo.


As a citizen of Derbyshire UK which is an adjoining County to
Yorkshire and Lancashire between all of which there is friendly
rivalry. All that can be said of the above is that Yorkshire
folk just make a good cup of tea, which is directly attributed
to the type of water there of which the above illustrated they
drink too much of. :-)


Kind wishes

col








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                1,000,000 Visits At Brazilian UFO Magazine's

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 09:57:17 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:21:53 -0400
Subject: 1,000,000 Visits At Brazilian UFO Magazine's



Dear Colleagues:

It is an honour to inform that the Brazilian UFO Magazine
website reached one million visits at 09h29 am, June 10th. It
happened at the same time as the magazine published editon One
Hundred.

See the web site at: www.ufo.com.br

These are world records, as no UFO periodical circulating on
news stands ever reached 100 editions before and very few
ufology websites countered 1,000,000 hits. The sites that have
are all English language and accessible to greater number of
people.

Brazilian UFO Magazine website is 99% in Portuguese, a language
spoken by much fewer internet users. This fact makes the
achievement even more significant.

Does that mean that popular interest in UFOs and ufology is
growing? Certainly! It is time for UFO researchers all over the
world to increase the posting of serious, consistent and updated
information, so the general public can see and confirm that the
subject is very much worth attention.

Meanwhile, Brazilian UFO researcher's Freedom of UFO Information
campaign, promoted since April by the Brazilian UFO Magazine,
has already achieved 6,000 signatures.

See details in English at: http://www.ufo.com.br/secrecy.php


A. J. Gevaerd, editor
gevaerd.nul








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                     Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:04:38 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:57:18 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 20:30:16 -0500
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:06:08 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:08:17 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:49 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

Hello Santiago,

Before I respond to each of your points, please can you clear up
a personal misunderstanding for me? This is not intended as
criticism in any way, but just something I am confused about.
Your name has been quoted in some articles as "Santiago Yturria
Garcia", "Santiago Yturria Garza" and your posts to UpDates
simply use the name "Santiago Yturria". I am guessing that this
is something to do with Hispanic name conventions which I have
no knowledge of?

>>Hello Dick, List,

>>While I agree that supportive noises from anonymous scientists
>>is of little or no value, I personally am not surprised that
>>they keep ufology at arm's length. Just look at the treatment of
>>the Mexican scientists by Santiago Yturria at:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m14-027.shtml

>Mr. McGonagle,

>As you mentioned my post I have a right to reply. It find your
>statements inaccurate and not updated. For your information two
>weeks ago Rafael Navarro from the UNAM finally had a meeting
>with the SEDENA officials to be briefed about the March 5, 2004
>Campeche incident.

>The scientist was shown the FLIR footage and was given all the
>exact data from the Merlin C26. The meeting took place trying to
>find a scientific explanation if any to the very unusual
>phenomena. After the footage was shown and some talks were made
>Rafael Navarro expressed his thoughts about the Flir images
>asserting that his perspective of what they initially proposed
>as the posible cause for the Flir images has changed and
>expressed his interest to study and analyze the images and data
>more carefully.

So has your initial assessment of Navarro as a member of a
contradictory, wreckless group of scientists who don't know what
they are talking about, altered?

>>Instead of approaching these accomplished scientists and
>>asking for their active participation

>Rodolfo Garrido offered Rafael Navarro to give them the footage
>and to discuss the Flir images. Rafael Navarro and the others
>refused categorically saying they would wait for the SEDENA to
>contact them. Were you aware of this Mr.McGonagle? Now how do
>you define the scientists posture to this open invitation?
>Would'nt you say they reacted with arrogance refusing any
>dialogue?

No, I was not aware of this (I have had no reponse to my email to
Navarro). However, given that Garrido has connections to the
infamous "Doctor" Reed - see:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/exposed10.html

and he took part in a press conference at a Mexican university
possibly UNAM?) where people were informed that spaceships were
on the way to Earth which would evacuateEarth's population
accompanied by the comet Hale-Bopp - see:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/garrido.html

it is no surprise to me that the offer was declined.

>The four UNAM teachers even refused to talk to the National
>Meteorologic Sevices to request the March 5, 2004 meteorological
>charts for the Campeche zone according to the required
>proccedure to reach a conclusion based on a meteorological
>phenomena. Do you think Mr. Gonagle that this attitude was
>responsible and professional?

Without knowing the circumstances of the refusal, I am unable to
offer any opinion. I take that we can add arrogant,
irresponsible, and unprofessional to contradictory, reckless,
and uninformed to your personal assessment of these scientists?
Hardly the way to win their support, wouldn't you agree? What
sort of co-operation could you realistically expect from them
after so many insulting remarks?

>It seems to me Mr.McGonagle that you are making assupmtions not
>based on facts but just what you read on the Internet. It's
>better to ask us before spreading disinformation.

I have read most of the coverage of the case on the internet, as
you say, primarily on UFO UpDates. Is there something wrong with
the infomation provided here? Are you not publishing the facts
on the List? Are you saying that they are unreliable? I am
confused by your apparently contradictory implication that what
I read on UpDates is not valid. As for facts, the only facts
that I have put forward aside from those which I have read on
the internet (which you imply can be disregarded) is a statement
by Herrera to the effect that the remarks attributed to this
group of scientists were taken out of context by the media, the
ufologists, or both. If that is disinformation, please provide
the evidence.

>>Is this not the approach that all ufologists should take?

>You talk of approach? As far as we know you have never
>approached us, nor Jaime Maussan, Rodolfo Garrido or myself to
>request information, updates on the case, doubts or discuss any
>issue regarding this investigation despite the fact you know
>very well where to find any of us.

Why should I approach the people you mention in order to obtain
clarification of media quotes not made by them and who, as far
as I know. were not present at the event during which the
statements were made? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

>Instead you send a post saying inaccurate and disconcerting
>statements that don't correspond with the actual status of this
>case. We will appreciate that you contact any of us directly as

What have I said that was inaccurate? I accept that I was
unaware of the offer to participate by Rodolfo Garrido.
Incidentally, can you tell me when exactly this offer was made?
Other than that, the facts stand as far as I am aware.

>many friends researchers and collagues around the world so we
>can exchange all the ACTUAL updates on this investigation. We
>have been very open since the beguinning and we have proved this
>fact. Unless your motives are personal on this case and our
>mexican UFO disclosure was not of your pleasure I will be ready
>anytime to talk to you and discuss any issue directly, just
>contact me.

If and when I have question which are best answered by the people
you mention, I shall do so, thank you.

Regards,

Joe








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                     Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:20:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:59:15 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:26:42 +0000
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

<snip>

>>"We were trying to put forward some possible explanations to the
>>March 5th event, based on fragmentary information we had about
>>it. We believe that it's certainly necessary to keep looking for
>>alternative explanations, until a reasonable conclusion can be
>>reached".

>>Is this not the approach that all ufologists should take?

>Joe,

>The short answer is "no". All I hear him saying is let's pin a
>label on it, and they (Mexican AF) have all the data so it's
>their job to find an explanation - below. That's buckpassing,
>pure and simple. Where is his scientific curiosity? Why does he
>not ask the Mexican AF for the data to analyze instead of just
>guessing around? Why is he not advocating scientific approaches
>to investigating the case for others if he is not curious enough
>to do so himself? No, he just engages in the time honored
>unscientific guesswork (not science) to explain away something
>that he assumes in advance must have a prosaic explanation. This
>is not science.

<snip>

Hello Dick,

In fact, Herrera has made (and is still making) several attempts
to obtain the data from the Mexican authorities, but is still
waiting for a meanigful response.

As regards applying labels, as I understand Herrera, his
approach is to try and discover if any existing labels fit and
if not, to write a new one even if the writing spells "Alien
visitation". I see nothing wrong with that?


Regards,

Joe







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                     Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:49:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 14:00:15 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:51:48 -0400
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

><snip>

>Yeah Joe, unless the shoe is on the other foot. Ever heard the
>expression, "What goes around comes around"? You said it
>yourself, it was a response to fragmentary information. The
>information wasn't that fragmentary that they could postulate
>[plasma sparks] ball lightning. Ball lightning that went on for
>15 minutes?

Actually, the "fragmentary information" was a quote from
Herrera's post to me. As I understand it, the evidence they were
aware of at the time did not exclude some of the _possible_
explanations offered by them. They were simply saying that it is
a little early to conclude any paranormal cause for the
sighting.

>They mentioned they could make it in a laboratory. I make pizza
>in an oven but have yet to see one when I'm flying.

>Joe, we know where you are coming from. You case is double
>speak. You would take just the opposite track if the scientists
>had claimed these were truly anomalous and required further
>study, a study that is years behind in importance.

You obviously don't know where I am coming from at all. Herrera
effecively said that whatever they were, they require further
study. I fully agree with that point of view, and if
_after_thorough_study they are concluded to be some form of
paranormal phenomenon, I will accept that as a viable
conclusion.

>You are obviously oblivious to the other studies being done, by
>those who have spent more than ten minutes studying the
>phenomenon.

Oh - you mean the media presenter and the guy who thought that
aliens were coming with Hale-Bopp to rescue us all from imminent
danger? Whilst not totally oblivious to their "research", I
don't give it much credence. On the other hand, I have great
respect for Bruce Maccabee, and eagerly await the outcome of his
efforts. Now what were you saying again?

>Your scientists decided - it appears - to leave it to the
>military, leaving the ball in their court. At least the latter
>is co-operating.

Read my other responses, and you will realise that you shouldn't
believe everything that you are told about the scientist's
approach.

>I realize there is a need for you to get in on this fast to
>start damage control [to whom, or what one wonders] but why not
>for a change, let it play out?

Hardly fast - this has been the main topic on UpDates for over a
month now, and this was my first post about it. I have been
letting it play out, and will continue to do so. I also wonder
what you mean about "damage control" - do you know something
that I don't?

>Don Ledger

Regards,

Joe








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   Jun > Jun 13

             Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This World

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:36:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:36:36 -0400
Subject: Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This World




Source: Florida Today

http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/indexcox.htm

06-10-04


Tales and observations from the edge

Columnist Billy Cox


Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This World

Tons of newsprint and airtime dedicated to Ronald Reagan's
legacy this week, but - surprise - not word one about curiosity
over unidentified flying objects. It'll be the same way when
Jimmy Carter dies.

None of the Carter presidential scholars on the talk-show
carousel will say anything about the former Georgia governor's
UFO encounter, which was so impressive he filed a formal report.
The incident even elicited a 1976 campaign promise to "make
every piece of information this country has about UFO sightings
available to the public and scientists." Which, as we know, blew
a sprocket when the rubber hit the road.

Likewise, upon Bill Clinton's death, there won't be any
mainstream media discussion of his own underreported attempts to
pry the door open in the '90s. That's when he dispatched former
Assistant Attorney General Web Hubbell to get to the bottom of
the secrecy, and wound up with goose eggs.

What made Reagan's angle so compelling were his repeated
allusions, as if he were speaking in code to the gatekeepers of
classified operations. Because, like a lot of people who've seen
these things, Reagan caught the bug, too.

Reagan's sighting occurred in 1974, when he was flying aboard a
Cessna Citation as governor of California. He told the story to
a Wall Street Journal reporter, and his pilot, Bull Paynter,
provided additional details. What started out as a white light
over Bakersfield, maybe several hundred yards away from the
plane, began to "elongate" as it accelerated away at a 45-degree
angle, around 10 p.m. "The UFO went from a normal cruise speed
to a fantastic speed," Paynter said, "instantly."

The incident obviously stayed with him, because Reagan went on
to employ extraterrestrials to his advantage during key moments
of his presidency.

At the Geneva Summit in 1985, he told Soviet foreign minister
Eduard Shevardnadze that if we ever discovered ETs were planning
to attack, both nations would form a quick alliance.
Shevardnadze agreed, and apparently for good reason.

As ABC's "Prime Time Live" related in 1995, for several hours on
Oct. 4, 1982, residents of Byleokoroviche, Ukraine, reported
seeing a 900-foot disc navigating the skies, then hovering over
a nuclear missile silo with armed warheads.

To his horror, Lt. Col. Vladimir Plantanov watched as flashing
control boards indicated the ICBMs were preparing to fire
against the United States. A Soviet investigation confirmed that
for 15 seconds, the base had lost control of its nukes.

"I couldn't help but say to (Soviet premier Mikhail Gorbachev),"
Reagan recalled later in 1985, to a high school class, "just how
easy his task and mine might be if suddenly there was a threat
to this world from some other species from another planet."

Reagan extended the analogy in 1987, during a speech before the
United Nations General Assembly, when he compared ETs to nuclear
weapons: "I occasionally think how quickly our differences
worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from
outside this world. And yet I ask: Is not an alien force already
among us?"

And what to make of Reagan's alleged comment to Steven
Spielberg, following the 1982 screening of "ET: The
Extraterrestrial" at the White House? "You know, there aren't
six people in this room who know how true this really is."
Producer Jamie Shandera said Spielberg told him the story, but
Spielberg refuses to discuss the incident in the media.

Which is just as well. These things get a little complicated.

Contact Cox at 242-3774 or bcox.nul








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   Jun > Jun 14

                     Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:05:38 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:27:24 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 20:30:16 -0500
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

I think that I owe you an apology Santiago:

>It seems to me Mr.McGonagle that you are making assupmtions not
>based on facts but just what you read on the Internet. It's
>better to ask us before spreading disinformation.

On re-reading my response to you, I see that you were probably
referring to my comment that:

"Instead of approaching these accomplished scientists and asking
for their active participation, Yturria attributes definitive
statements as to what the cause of the sighting was to them,
then accuses them of not knowing what they are talking about,
contradicting each other, and having a reckless attitude. All
this AFAIK without ascertaining the accuracy of the media
reports with the individuals concerned in his own country."

To which you responded:

>Rodolfo Garrido offered Rafael Navarro to give them the footage
>and to discuss the Flir images. Rafael Navarro and the others
>refused categorically saying they would wait for the SEDENA to
>contact them.

I concede that my suggestion that no attempt to contact the
scientists was wrong, and I apologise for this. However, it
still appears that you and your colleagues have relied on the
raw media reports of what they said in order to divine the
intent of their comments, and not asked them directly what was
in fact said, or why?


Regards,

Joe








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                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:17:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:30:17 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:49:08 +0100
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:51:48 -0400
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>><snip>

>>Yeah Joe, unless the shoe is on the other foot. Ever heard the
>>expression, "What goes around comes around"? You said it
>>yourself, it was a response to fragmentary information. The
>>information wasn't that fragmentary that they could postulate
>>[plasma sparks] ball lightning. Ball lightning that went on for
>>15 minutes?

>Actually, the "fragmentary information" was a quote from
>Herrera's post to me. As I understand it, the evidence they were
>aware of at the time did not exclude some of the _possible_
>explanations offered by them. They were simply saying that it is
>a little early to conclude any paranormal cause for the
>sighting.

>>They mentioned they could make it in a laboratory. I make pizza
>>in an oven but have yet to see one when I'm flying.

>>Joe, we know where you are coming from. You case is double
>>speak. You would take just the opposite track if the scientists
>>had claimed these were truly anomalous and required further
>>study, a study that is years behind in importance.

>You obviously don't know where I am coming from at all. Herrera
>effecively said that whatever they were, they require further
>study. I fully agree with that point of view, and if
>_after_thorough_study they are concluded to be some form of
>paranormal phenomenon, I will accept that as a viable
>conclusion.

>>You are obviously oblivious to the other studies being done, by
>>those who have spent more than ten minutes studying the
>>phenomenon.

>Oh - you mean the media presenter and the guy who thought that
>aliens were coming with Hale-Bopp to rescue us all from imminent
>danger?

There you are - proclamation by slur.

Hale-Bopp for crying out loud.....

That's your argument. It didn't take long, did it?

The Mexican Air Force released the entire tape to more than just
one person. And a whole month you say? That's awful.


Don Ledger








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                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:20:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:32:38 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Ledger


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:20:46 +0100
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:26:42 +0000
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:04:30 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

><snip>

>>>"We were trying to put forward some possible explanations to the
>>>March 5th event, based on fragmentary information we had about
>>>it. We believe that it's certainly necessary to keep looking for
>>>alternative explanations, until a reasonable conclusion can be
>>>reached".

>>>Is this not the approach that all ufologists should take?

>>The short answer is "no". All I hear him saying is let's pin a
>>label on it, and they (Mexican AF) have all the data so it's
>>their job to find an explanation - below. That's buckpassing,
>>pure and simple. Where is his scientific curiosity? Why does he
>>not ask the Mexican AF for the data to analyze instead of just
>>guessing around? Why is he not advocating scientific approaches
>>to investigating the case for others if he is not curious enough
>>to do so himself? No, he just engages in the time honored
>>unscientific guesswork (not science) to explain away something
>>that he assumes in advance must have a prosaic explanation. This
>>is not science.

><snip>

>In fact, Herrera has made (and is still making) several attempts
>to obtain the data from the Mexican authorities, but is still
>waiting for a meanigful response.

>As regards applying labels, as I understand Herrera, his
>approach is to try and discover if any existing labels fit and
>if not, to write a new one even if the writing spells "Alien
>visitation". I see nothing wrong with that?

I'm horning in on this email to Dick to offer up one
possibility.

Perhaps the Mexican Air Force was just peed off with this group
for going public with the usual tired-and unsupported
"explanation" without contacting them first.

Perhaps the MAF just found it plain insulting.

Like it or not that's how many scientists come across
amateurishly explaining away these unknowns when they have
little or no data or knowledge of what's gone on before.

Don Ledger









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                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:39:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:35:58 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Yturria


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:04:38 +0100
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 20:30:16 -0500
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

>Before I respond to each of your points, please can you clear up
>a personal misunderstanding for me? This is not intended as
>criticism in any way, but just something I am confused about.
>Your name has been quoted in some articles as "Santiago Yturria
>Garcia", "Santiago Yturria Garza" and your posts to UpDates
>simply use the name "Santiago Yturria". I am guessing that this
>is something to do with Hispanic name conventions which I have
>no knowledge of?

The answer is simple. Here in Mexico we use our two familiar
names that's the father's first and the mother's second. When I
went lecturing years ago to the US and England and appeared on
several tv shows on the US I used my two last names just to find
out that I was mentioned as Santiago Garza instead of Santiago
Yturria. That created a confuson in my identification therefore
I changed and mentioned only my first last name just like it's
used in those countries.

>So has your initial assessment of Navarro as a member of a
>contradictory, wreckless group of scientists who don't know what
>they are talking about, altered?

No, you are distorting the fact. Mr. Rafael Navarro told the
SEDENA staff during their meeting that his perception of the
Flir images was now diferent once he was briefed by them. He
did'nt mentioned any other theory or posibility to the phenomena
that came to his mind at that moment. Just said that he was
interested in studying and analyze the images and data more
carefully before reaching a preliminar conclusion wich we all
welcome and agree. Just to clearify Mr. Navarro and Mr. Herrera
are two of the four UNAM teachers that gave the press conference

>No, I was not aware of this (I have had no reponse to my email to
>Navarro). However, given that Garrido has connections to the
>infamous "Doctor" Reed - see:

I don't know about that and it's not of my concern. We are
discussing the SEDENA issues and that's our interest here. The
fact that Mr. Rafael Navarro was invited by Rodolfo Garrido to
review the SEDENA footage was legitimate and responding to a
claim made by Navarro of not being contacted initially by SEDENA
to review the footage for making a proper analysis. The offering
by Garrido was sincere and obligatory due to the circumstances
of Mr. Navarro's claim to the press. Since Jaime Maussan was the
only authorized by the Secretary of Defense to handle the
footage and conduct this investigation Jaime decided to give a
copy of the footage to Mr. Navarro and collagues once their
press conference took place and their claims were published. The
offering was made by Rodolfo Garrido.

It was Mr. Navarro's privilege to accept or refuse the offering
but we feel that the offering was honest and in the best
interest to this investigation.


>The four UNAM teachers even refused to talk to the National
>Meteorologic Sevices to request the March 5, 2004 meteorological
>charts for the Campeche zone according to the required
>proccedure to reach a conclusion based on a meteorological
>phenomena. Do you think Mr. Gonagle that this attitude was
>responsible and professional?

>Without knowing the circumstances of the refusal, I am unable to
>offer any opinion. I take that we can add arrogant,
>irresponsible, and unprofessional to contradictory, reckless,
>and uninformed to your personal assessment of these scientists?
>Hardly the way to win their support, wouldn't you agree? What
>sort of co-operation could you realistically expect from them
>after so many insulting remarks?

First you are avoiding clevery the point here excusing yourself
for commenting something so clear and relevant to an
investigation like the National Meteorologic Services necesary
and required information of the Campeche area conditions on
March 5, 2004, something that our team as well as SEDENA
requested since the very beguinning but on the countrary the
UNAM teachers did'nt do at anytime. Do you know what I'm talking
about? Therefore once again Mr. McGonagle I must ask you for
your comment on this attitude by the UNAM scientists, please
don't dissapoint me.

So instead of asking first to the National Meteorologic Services
the mentioned meteorologic charts the four UNAM scientists
decided to give a press conference in Mexico city just after the
release of the case exposing their theory of the lightning
sparks as the cause of the SEDENA Flir images and criticizing
the Secretary of Defense for contacting researcher and
journalist Jaime Maussan instead of them.

If you don't find this attitude unprofesional and irresponsible
then I don't know what's your idea of Ethics.

You say Hardly the way to win their ( UNAM teachers ) support?
Give me a break. Since when we have to win a support from a
skeptic group of scientists in order to do our research work?
Maybe in your place the conditions are diferent and you have the
blessing of the scientists to do your UFO research. In our
experience there has been always debates and discussions among
the UFO researchers and scientists, some of them positive and
some of them dissapointing so whitout meaning a divorce in our
relationship it's been always tense at least for some radical
groups of scientists not all of them. You should learn more
about this.

Finally you mentioned insulting remarks referring to
unprofesional and irresponsible ? You should know what these
four UNAM teachers said about the SEDENA, Jaime Maussan, our
research team and the mexican ufologists during their press
conference and later on national television. Is their reaction
ethic? Unless you are also a skeptic and share their convictions
it seems to me that you are still not well informed of so many
things regarding the course of this investigation.

>I have read most of the coverage of the case on the internet, as
>you say, primarily on UFO UpDates. Is there something wrong with
>the infomation provided here? Are you not publishing the facts
>on the List? Are you saying that they are unreliable? I am
>confused by your apparently contradictory implication that what
>I read on UpDates is not valid.

If you just could make a proper research of this case since the
beguinning consulting and reviewing all my reports published in
several websites including this list you would have a clear view
of every step taken on this investigation, all the people
involved inside and outside the SEDENA, interviews, analisis by
diferent friends scientists, the footage itself, updates and
last minute developments including new testimonials from SEDENA
officials, all this have been published widely and distributed
openly to many friends and websites all over the world.

Now you are trying to be smart here putting words in my mouth
implying that false assumption about the Updates information
being not valid. Your position and intention is clear and I will
not follow that.

>>Is this not the approach that all ufologists should take?

>Why should I approach the people you mention in order to obtain
>clarification of media quotes not made by them and who, as far
>as I know. were not present at the event during which the
>statements were made? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Then what makes sense to you at all in this case sir? You have
not followed then this case since the beguinning and you have
not learned all the facts made public and published all over the
world by the PRIMARY researcher and the research team for weeks.
Then what do you know about this case? We don't know who you
are or what are your credentials and since you have not being
interested in contact any of us we don't have to prove anything
to you.

>What have I said that was inaccurate? I accept that I was
>unaware of the offer to participate by Rodolfo Garrido.
>Incidentally, can you tell me when exactly this offer was made?
>Other than that, the facts stand as far as I am aware.

As I mentioned before the offering was made after the UNAM
teachers gave their press conference and talked on national
television. The offering was the required response. Can you tell
us if our response to them was mistaken?

We will continue our research work on this case openly to every
person, researcher, media representative, scientist and even
skeptic that approach us with seroiusness and ethic in the best
interest of this investigation. We have advanced significant
steps but we are still far from reaching any conclusion yet
about what happened that afternoon over the El Carmen, Campeche
aerial space. The enigma is still there.

Santiago Yturria.
is email to Dick to offer up one
possibility.

Perhaps the Mexican Air Force was just peed off with this group
for going public with the usual tired-and unsupported
"explanation" without contacting them first.

Perhaps the MAF just found it plain insulting.

Like it or not that's how many scientists come across
amateurishly explaining away these unknowns when they have
little or no data or knowledge of what's gone on before.

Don Ledger









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   Jun > Jun 14

              Re: Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:12:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:39:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This


>Source: Florida Today

>http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/indexcox.htm

>06-10-04

>Tales and observations from the edge

>Columnist Billy Cox

>Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This World

<snip>

>Reagan's sighting occurred in 1974, when he was flying aboard a
>Cessna Citation as governor of California. He told the story to
>a Wall Street Journal reporter, and his pilot, Bull Paynter,
>provided additional details. What started out as a white light
>over Bakersfield, maybe several hundred yards away from the
>plane, began to "elongate" as it accelerated away at a 45-degree
>angle, around 10 p.m. "The UFO went from a normal cruise speed
>to a fantastic speed," Paynter said, "instantly."

<snip>

Hello All,

I knew the Paynter Family.

Bull was an oldtimer, wind in the wires, open cockpit kind of
guy. I tried to get on with an Airfrieght outfit they had. Bull
died before I got on and that is another story.

If Bull saw it, there is no doubt there was _something_ there.


GT McCoy









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                         300 UFO Magazines On eBay!

From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:12:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:41:40 -0400
Subject: 300 UFO Magazines On eBay!


Hi All,

Having seen the Alien s..t on eBay, I thought I would post a
slightly less offensive UFO item, listed there.

The auction is by London UFO Studies - Roy Lake - and it looks
pretty cool, for anyone who wishes to have  a lot of UFO history
info, for research or other.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64310&item=6904806576


Roy








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                       BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive?

From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:31:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:46:13 -0400
Subject: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive?


List,

If there's anyone from BUFORA on this List, can they answer the
following:

After forty-two years, one would imagine that BUFORA would have
collected a mammoth data-bank of UK UFO Sightings?

Where has BUFORA stored all of these forty-two years of UK UFO
Sightings?

Is it open to UK UFO Researchers, to look at for research
purposes?

If yes, what does one need to do, or acquire, before one can
have access to the UK UFO sightings forty-two year database?

If no Database then what have BUFORA done with the forty-two
years of UK UFO Reports, from the UK public?

One reason for asking this, is that BUFORA are a main name in UK
UFO Research for the last forty years, so one would imagine that
UFO Sightings data would have been collected and stored, for
future research purposes, and archive interest, for researchers
and TV etc.


Regards,

Roy








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              Re: 1,000,000 Visits At Brazilian UFO Magazine's

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 19:47:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:48:24 -0400
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Visits At Brazilian UFO Magazine's


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 09:57:17 -0300
>Subject: 1,000,000 Visits At Brazilian UFO Magazine's Website

>Dear Colleagues:

>It is an honour to inform that the Brazilian UFO Magazine
>website reached one million visits at 09h29 am, June 10th. It
>happened at the same time as the magazine published editon One
>Hundred.

Congratulations to AJ and Revista UFO.








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                Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:22:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:51:07 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:53:07 -0700
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:17:13 -0300
>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:23:51-0400
>>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>Source: The Santa Cruz Sentinel

>>>http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2004/June/06/local/stories/0-3local.
htm

>>>06-06-04

>>>Alien Research Group Puts Property Up For Sale By Kurtis Alexander
>>>Sentinel Staff Writer

>>><snip>

>>>"It would have been fun to have had (the telescope) in Soquel," said
>>>Aptos resident Frank Drake, a founding member of SETI and one of the
>>>world's foremost scholars on the search for extraterrestrial life.

>>><snip>

>>>Drake, like most of his scientific method-going colleagues at SETI,
>>>is not to be confused with the UFO buffs who watch X-Files and flock
>>>to places like Roswell, N.M., looking for bright lights.

>>What a load of rubbish. Note this isn't Drake talking but an
>>uninformed reporter. I urge you all to contact him and set him
>>straight.

>>Ask about balanced reporting. After all, we aren't asking for
>>special treatment, just the right of rebuttle, not uninformed,
>>kneejerked opinion.

>>I watch science shows when ever I can find them. And many of
>>them have been about SETI, with the usual cast. Does that cast
>>do the same, I wonder, when a decent UFO documentary is on. I
>>know, some are an acquired taste, however there are good ones.

>I took your advise; here's my letter to the reporter:

Frank,

I didn't see anyone else do so, so allow me to be the first to
congratulate you on an excellent letter!

Jim Speiser








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                         MIB Another Thought - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:38:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:53:43 -0400
Subject: MIB Another Thought - Gates


Of interest is an article that is going to appear in the  June
21 issue of Newsweek. The article is quoted below. Of interest
in the article is one paragraph:


"Ever since the 1970s, when Army intel agents were caught
snooping on antiwar protesters, military intel agencies have
operated under tight restrictions inside the United States. But
the new provision, approved in closed session last month by the
Senate Intelligence Committee, would eliminate one big
restriction: that they comply with the Privacy Act, a Watergate-
 era law that requires government officials seeking information
from a resident to disclose who they are and what they want the
information for."


In essence prior to the privacy act, and perhaps later this year
you could have govt agents show up at your door, not identify
themselves as working for the government, ask questions...
perhaps demand certain information be turned over...ala some
cases of  so called Men in Black.

Cheers,

Robert

(full article below)

-----

Intelligence: The Pentagon-Spying in America?

Cheryl Hatch/AP
Mission creep? A new bill could expand the Pentagon's ability to
gather intelligence inside the United States

By Michael Isikoff
Investigative Correspondent
Newsweek

June 21 2004 issue - Last February, two Army counterintelligence
agents showed up at the University of Texas law school and
demanded to see the roster from a conference on Islamic law held
a few days earlier. Their reason: they were trying to track down
students who the agents claimed had been asking "suspicious"
questions. "I felt like I was in 'Law & Order'," said one
student after being grilled by one of the agents. The incident
provoked a brief campus uproar, and the Army later admitted the
agents had exceeded their authority. But if the Pentagon has its
way, the Army may not have to make such amends in the future.
Without any public hearing or debate, NEWSWEEK has learned,
Defense officials recently slipped a provision into a bill
before Congress that could vastly expand the Pentagon's ability
to gather intelligence inside the United States, including
recruiting citizens as informants.

Ever since the 1970s, when Army intel agents were caught
snooping on antiwar protesters, military intel agencies have
operated under tight restrictions inside the United States. But
the new provision, approved in closed session last month by
the Senate Intelligence Committee, would eliminate one big
restriction: that they comply with the Privacy Act, a
Watergate-era law that requires government officials seeking
information from a resident to disclose who they are and what
they want the information for.

The CIA always has been exempt-although by law it isn't supposed
to operate inside the United States. The new provision would now
extend the same exemption to Pentagon agencies such as the
Defense Intelligence Agency-so they can help track terrorists. A
report by the Senate Intelligence Committee says the provision
would allow military intel agents to "approach potential sources
and collect personal information from them" without disclosing
they work for the government. The justification: "Current
counterterrorism operations," the report explains, which require
"greater latitude ... both overseas and within the United
States." DIA officials say they mainly want the provision so
they can more easily question American businessmen and college
students who travel abroad. But Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman
concedes the provision will also be helpful in investigating
suspected terrorist threats to military bases and contractors
inside the United States. "It's a new world we live in," he
says. "We have to do what is necessary for force protection."
Among those pushing for the provision, sources say, were
officials at northcom, the new Colorado-based command set up by
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to oversee "homeland
defense." Pentagon lawyers insist agents will still be legally
barred from domestic "law enforcement." But watchdog groups see
a potentially alarming "mission creep." "This... is giving them
the authority to spy on Americans," said Kate Martin, director
of the Center for National Security Studies, a group frequently
critical of the war on terror. "And it's all been done with no
public discussion, in the dark of night."








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                         Sloppy Stats Shame Science

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:03:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:58:48 -0400
Subject: Sloppy Stats Shame Science


Source: The Economist

http://www.economist.co.uk/science/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=3D2724226

06-03-04

=46rom The Economist print edition

Scientific Publishing

Sloppy Stats Shame Science

What is published in scientific journals may not be as true as
it should be

Scientific and medical journals, with their august panels of
peer reviewers and fact checkers, are not the sort of places
many mistakes are to be expected. Yet Emili Garc=EDa-Berthou and
Carles Alcaraz, two researchers at the University of Girona in
Spain, have found that 38% of a sample of papers in Nature, and
a quarter of those sampled in the British Medical Journal
(BMJ)=97two of the world's most respected journals=97contained one
or more statistical errors. Not all of these errors led to
erroneous conclusions, but the authors of the study, which has
just been published in BMC Medical Research Methodology, another
journal, reckon that 4% of the errors may have caused non-
significant findings to be misrepresented as being significant.

Dr Garc=EDa-Berthou and Dr Alcaraz investigated 32 papers from
editions of Nature published in 2001, and 12 from the BMJ in the
same year. They examined the numbers within each, to see whether
the data presented actually led to the statistical conclusion
the authors drew, and also whether there was anything fishy
about the numbers themselves. Appropriately, they used a
statistical technique to do their checking. If a set of data are
=93unedited=94, the last digits in the numbers recorded will tend to
have the values 0-9 at random, since these digits represent
small values, and are thus the ones that are hardest to measure.
If those numbers are rounded carelessly, however, 4s and 9s
(which tend to get rounded up to the nearest half or whole
number) will be rarer than they should be. The two researchers
duly discovered that 4s and 9s were, indeed, rarer than chance
would predict in many of the papers under scrutiny.

False data, false results. Though it was difficult to show
whether, in any given case, this falsity led to a result being
proclaimed statistically significant when it was not, it was
possible to estimate how much error there was likely to be. In
one case, however, there was no doubt. A number supposed to be
statistically significant was explicitly mis-stated, and a false
inference drawn in the paper's conclusion.

Of course, mistakes will creep through from time to time in the
best-run organisations, and there is no suggestion that any of
the errors observed was a deliberate fraud. But there do seem to
have been rather a lot of them. However, as Kamran Abbasi,
deputy editor of the BMJ, laments, although the world at large
looks at scientific peer-review=97the system journals use to keep
their authors accurate and honest=97as a sacred process, it is in
fact imperfect. =93We certainly do not spend our time
recalculating all these numbers, and our whole review process
would likely grind to a halt if we tried to do so.=94

Maxine Clarke, publishing executive editor of Nature, says her
journal will be examining the papers cited by Dr Garc=EDa-Berthou
and Dr Alcaraz before deciding what action, if any, needs to be
taken. =93At first sight, some awareness-raising about statistical
accuracy among manuscript editors, peer-reviewers and proof-
readers seems necessary, but we have changed our workflows
considerably since the period studied,=94 says Ms Clarke.

One cure might be for researchers to publish raw data as well as
statistical analysis and conclusions. That way, anyone who
really cares can check the sums. For some years, Nature has
offered supplementary information online to accompany its
papers. This information is peer-reviewed, but Ms Clarke
believes it is too specialised for people outside the field to
find interesting. =93We do not explicitly ask authors, as routine,
for the raw data underlying their reported statistical results,=94
she says. =93This suggestion is now on the agenda for our next
editorial meeting on editorial practices and criteria.=94

The real answer, however, surely lies with the researchers
themselves. Far too many scientists have only a shaky grasp of
the statistical techniques they are using. They employ them as
an amateur chef employs a cook book, believing the recipes will
work without understanding why. A more cordon bleu attitude to
the maths involved might lead to fewer statistical souffl=E9s
failing to rise.


Copyright =A9 2004 The Economist Newspaper and The Economist
Group. All rights reserved.


--

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








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                                The UFO Myth

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:03:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:05:17 -0400
Subject: The UFO Myth


From: Leslie Ellen Jones <lejones.nul>
To: <forteana.nul>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:17:47 -0700
Subj: FWD [forteana] Re: The UFO Myth

>From: Bill Jacobs <bill.jac.nul>
>To: <forteana.nul>
>Date: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:39 PM
>Subject: [forteana] The UFO Myth

>I've been thinking a bit about if the UFO Myth dying off, and
>I've half convinced myself that it never existed in the first
>place. If you think about it, the Contactees just relocated
>their enlightened brotherhood from Siddartha to Venus and the
>Abductees relocated faerie from below the hill to Mars.

>For modern American-style ufologists, UFOs are a macguffin. For
>them, it's really all about the cover-up. If proof that UFOs are
>alien spaceships arrived tomorrow, their response wouldn't be,
>"This changes everything!"'; it would be "I told you so!" For
>British style ufologists, the Fortean approach is like a
>Rorshach test in reverse. It sucks the meaning out of all
>ambiguous phenomena; it's all just the Trickster screwing with
>our heads.

>After you take all that away, what's left to UFOs? Just aliens
>traveling to Earth in spaceships (and occasionally breaking down
>on back roads). There's no story or meaning to it, so I don't
>see any myth there.

>Am I missing something?


Speaking as a mythologist, the "myth" in the sense of a
cosmological narrative is that there is intelligent life on
other planets, whose technology is more advanced than ours at
least to the extent of being able to fly to other planets before
we were able to make it to our own moon. It thereby questions
the dominant cosmological myth of our planet, namely, that a
single deity (be it Yahweh, God, or Allah) created the world and
gave humankind a unique position over all other forms of life.
You may argue that this is not the cosmology of modern science
and that the idea that there is life elsewhere in the universe
is consonant with the scientific worldview, but it could be
argued that the UFO myth is exactly that, a "scientific" myth,
i.e., a cosmology that incorporates the concept of non-Earth
life in opposition to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic cosmology. The
ironic part, of course, is that since Science defines itself as
Not-Myth it therefore also rejects its own mythic form.

leslie

Leslie Ellen Jones, Ph.D.
Jack of All Trades and Doctor of Folklore
lejones.nul
http://www.members.authorsguild.net/ljones/

"Truth is an odd number" -- Flann O'Brien


--

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul






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                     Genealogy Detective Needed - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 03:30:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:12:09 -0400
Subject: Genealogy Detective Needed - Young


I am looking for a genealogy enthusiast to do some "private
detective" work of sorts to help track down someone from the
Cincinnati area in 1950s for a UFO-related investigation. $100
to whoever can successfully find this person or present-day
relatives.

If you could help or refer me to someone that could, please
contact me privately at "ufo.nul"


Thanks,

Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo








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                   Exhibition Traces UFO Signs In Slovakia

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 03:24:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:14:35 -0400
Subject: Exhibition Traces UFO Signs In Slovakia


Source: The Slovak Spectator

http://www.slovakspectator.sk/clanok-16397.html

06-14-04


Exhibition traces UFO signs in Slovakia

The Slovak National Museum in Bratislava recently opened an
exhibition entitled Crop Circles displaying the pictograms and
agro-symbols that unidentified flying objects have left on
Slovak territory.

According to the exhibition's organisers, witnesses have seen
round, disk-shaped UFO objects at the site of 85 percent of crop
circles here, as well as abroad.

The exhibition displays all the pictograms from Slovakia that
have been registered by the Trnava UFO club. "There might have
been more, but we have no information on those," said Miroslav
Karl=EDk, the club's chairman.

The Trnava club has registered nine locations where crop circles
appear, and 178 reports on UFO observations in the Trnava region
between 1992 and 2003. Captured on a videocassette and in
pictures by amateurs, the display also features photographs from
the Bratislava region.

Another part of the exhibition presents the cases of pictograms
found in England in the areas of Stonehenge, Crabwood, and
Chilbolton. The country is famous for its large number of these
formations. At the beginning of the 1990s, around 300 pictograms
were found there annually.

The exhibition runs until July 25. The museum is located at
Vajansk=E9ho nabrezie 2.

Prepared by Zuzana Habsudova










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                          Re: The UFO Myth - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:28:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:18:55 -0400
Subject: Re: The UFO Myth - Shell


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:03:36 -0700
>Subject: The UFO Myth

>From: Leslie Ellen Jones <lejones.nul>
>To: <forteana.nul>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:17:47 -0700
>Subj: FWD [forteana] Re: The UFO Myth

>>From: Bill Jacobs <bill.jac.nul>
>>To: <forteana.nul>
>>Date: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:39 PM
>>Subject: [forteana] The UFO Myth

>>After you take all that away, what's left to UFOs? Just aliens
>>traveling to Earth in spaceships (and occasionally breaking down
>>on back roads). There's no story or meaning to it, so I don't
>>see any myth there.

>>Am I missing something?

>The ironic part, of course, is that since Science defines itself
>as Not-Myth it therefore also rejects its own mythic form.

I think the part of the UFO myth that's the most interesting to
me is the part that says absolutely no one's perceived
experience, whether it's a sighting or an abduction or whatever,
can be accepted as any kind of proof of anything. It used to be
good enough for a court of law, and an honest man's word was his
bond.

But forget that now!

Not only do you have to be honest, you certainly can't be a
"sci-fi fan" (since we all know what mentally unstable liars
they are), and you need to back up your cockamamie story with
photos (3-D holographic infrared, if possible), metal and soil
samples, and preferably a living breathing alien who can tap
dance to back it up.

And along with the myth of no one knowing anything they
experience, there's a corollary that says it also doesn't matter
how many people see something. 1 person, a dozen, a thousand,
makes no difference. It's all so completely useless for any kind
of serious study, you can't even call it data. That's the myth I
find interesting.








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                Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 06:34:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:20:19 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:22:56 -0700
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:53:07 -0700
>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:17:13 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:23:51-0400
>>>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>>Source: The Santa Cruz Sentinel

>>>>http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2004/June/06/local/stories/0-3local
.htm

>>>>06-06-04

>>>>Alien Research Group Puts Property Up For Sale By Kurtis Alexander
>>>>Sentinel Staff Writer

>>>><snip>

>>>>"It would have been fun to have had (the telescope) in Soquel," said
>>>>Aptos resident Frank Drake, a founding member of SETI and one of the
>>>>world's foremost scholars on the search for extraterrestrial life.

>>>><snip>

>>>>Drake, like most of his scientific method-going colleagues at SETI,
>>>>is not to be confused with the UFO buffs who watch X-Files and flock
>>>>to places like Roswell, N.M., looking for bright lights.

>>>What a load of rubbish. Note this isn't Drake talking but an
>>>uninformed reporter. I urge you all to contact him and set him
>>>straight.


>>>Ask about balanced reporting. After all, we aren't asking for
>>>special treatment, just the right of rebuttle, not uninformed,
>>>kneejerked opinion.

>>>I watch science shows when ever I can find them. And many of
>>>them have been about SETI, with the usual cast. Does that cast
>>>do the same, I wonder, when a decent UFO documentary is on. I
>>>know, some are an acquired taste, however there are good ones.

>>I took your advise; here's my letter to the reporter:

>Frank,

>I didn't see anyone else do so, so allow me to be the first to
>congratulate you on an excellent letter!


Jim,

Thanks.....

Frank










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              New Sightings Map Of Canadian Maritime Provinces

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 06:55:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:41:46 -0400
Subject: New Sightings Map Of Canadian Maritime Provinces


Hello all:


Canadians might want to see a new UFO Sightings Map I put up of
the Maritime provinces.

http://www.larryhatch.net/ECANADA.html

While sightings densities are low compared to New England,
spacing and placement may be of interest.

I was surprised how far inland Goose Bay, Labrador appears for
one thing. GB is toward the western end of very long Lake
Melville, which very nearly reaches the Atlanti, as it turns
out. I'll bet the geese make a wonderful roast!


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                  Re: Genealogy Detective Needed - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:58:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:46:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Genealogy Detective Needed - Stanford


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 03:30:39 -0400
>Subject: Genealogy Detective Needed

>I am looking for a genealogy enthusiast to do some "private
>detective" work of sorts to help track down someone from the
>Cincinnati area in 1950s for a UFO-related investigation. $100
>to whoever can successfully find this person or present-day
>relatives.

>If you could help or refer me to someone that could, please
>contact me privately at "ufo.nul"


Hi Kenny,

Looking for the guy who took the film? My wife has been involved
in genealogical tracing and is pretty good at it. Her brother,
Chris, is deeply involved and even more experienced at such. If
you'd like me to see what they might be able to do on this, just
send me the data, and you might be surprised how fast they can
come up with answers. I cannot guarantee a result, but there
would be _no_ charge, regardless of how successful the search.

I might decide to go to Owensboro, KY, for an Indian artifact
show in August. Are you anywhere near there?


Ray

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                  Re: Sloppy Stats Shame Science - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:58:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:47:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Sloppy Stats Shame Science - Lehmberg


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:03:27 -0700
>Subject: Sloppy Stats Shame Science


>Source: The Economist

>http://www.economist.co.uk/science/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=2724226

>06-03-04

>From The Economist print edition

>Scientific Publishing

>Sloppy Stats Shame Science

>What is published in scientific journals may not be as true as
>it should be...

Nope, it may not be "sloppy stats" that shames science; sloppy
stats just beg for subsequent refinement.

_Shame_ is not going where the data leads!  Now, _there's_ a
shame with substance and appellation leading to derisive
laughter as long as its remembered!

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                       Re: MIB Another Thought - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:21:13 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:49:08 -0400
Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought - Hall


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:38:04 EDT
>Subject: MIB Another Thought

>Of interest is an article that is going to appear in the  June
>21 issue of Newsweek. The article is quoted below. Of interest
>in the article is one paragraph:

>"Ever since the 1970s, when Army intel agents were caught
>snooping on antiwar protesters, military intel agencies have
>operated under tight restrictions inside the United States. But
>the new provision, approved in closed session last month by the
>Senate Intelligence Committee, would eliminate one big
>restriction: that they comply with the Privacy Act, a Watergate-
>  era law that requires government officials seeking information
>from a resident to disclose who they are and what they want the
>information for."

>In essence prior to the privacy act, and perhaps later this year
>you could have govt agents show up at your door, not identify
>themselves as working for the government, ask questions...
>perhaps demand certain information be turned over...ala some
>cases of  so called Men in Black.

>Cheers,

>Robert

Robert,

All I can say is that if people are dumb enough to speak to
unidentified agents at all, they deserve to be duped. There is
absolutely no requirement for them to do so. In fact, they can
kick them out of the house "toot sweet" if they want to do so,
and/or call the local police...and watch the fakers run for
cover.

I have been approached by FBI, CIA, and Secret Service agents
over the years. They absolutely never engage in any bullying or
threatening behavior. They are polite to a fault. And they will
hand their identification cards over to you for careful
inspection.


  - Dick








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   Jun > Jun 14

                     Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:34:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:51:38 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:20:06 -0400
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:20:46 +0100
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:26:42 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

>>>The short answer is "no". All I hear him saying is let's pin a
>>>label on it, and they (Mexican AF) have all the data so it's
>>>their job to find an explanation - below. That's buckpassing,
>>>pure and simple. Where is his scientific curiosity? Why does he
>>>not ask the Mexican AF for the data to analyze instead of just
>>>guessing around? Why is he not advocating scientific approaches
>>>to investigating the case for others if he is not curious enough
>>>to do so himself? No, he just engages in the time honored
>>>unscientific guesswork (not science) to explain away something
>>>that he assumes in advance must have a prosaic explanation. This
>>>is not science.

>><snip>

>>In fact, Herrera has made (and is still making) several attempts
>>to obtain the data from the Mexican authorities, but is still
>>waiting for a meanigful response.

>>As regards applying labels, as I understand Herrera, his
>>approach is to try and discover if any existing labels fit and
>>if not, to write a new one even if the writing spells "Alien
>>visitation". I see nothing wrong with that?

>I'm horning in on this email to Dick to offer up one
>possibility.

>Perhaps the Mexican Air Force was just peed off with this group
>for going public with the usual tired-and unsupported
>"explanation" without contacting them first.

>Perhaps the MAF just found it plain insulting.

>Like it or not that's how many scientists come across
>amateurishly explaining away these unknowns when they have
>little or no data or knowledge of what's gone on before.

Hi Don,

You may be on to something of real significance, my dear Watson. :)

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                 Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:51:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:53:30 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Ledger


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:22:56 -0700
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:53:07 -0700
>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

<snip>

>>I took your advice; here's my letter to the reporter:

>I didn't see anyone else do so, so allow me to be the first to
>congratulate you on an excellent letter!

I thought I had done so, Jim. It was an excellent letter.

Don Ledger








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                   Re: Genealogy Detective Needed - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:49:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:05:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Genealogy Detective Needed - Kaeser


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:58:46 -0400
>Subject: Re: Genealogy Detective Needed

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 03:30:39 -0400
>>Subject: Genealogy Detective Needed

>>I am looking for a genealogy enthusiast to do some "private
>>detective" work of sorts to help track down someone from the
>>Cincinnati area in 1950s for a UFO-related investigation. $100
>>to whoever can successfully find this person or present-day
>>relatives.

>>If you could help or refer me to someone that could, please
>>contact me privately at "ufo.nul"

>Hi Kenny,

>Looking for the guy who took the film? My wife has been involved
>in genealogical tracing and is pretty good at it. Her brother,
>Chris, is deeply involved and even more experienced at such. If
>you'd like me to see what they might be able to do on this, just
>send me the data, and you might be surprised how fast they can
>come up with answers. I cannot guarantee a result, but there
>would be _no_ charge, regardless of how successful the search.

>I might decide to go to Owensboro, KY, for an Indian artifact
>show in August. Are you anywhere near there?


Kenny, Ray and all-

Is a geneoalogist the appropriate expert or would you really
want a private investigator who could track down this person?
Expertise at tracing courthouse records may not be what you're
looking for. But I could be wrong.


Steve






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                        Re: Secrecy News -- 06/14/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:37:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:20:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 06/14/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 54
June 14, 2004


**      JUSTICE DEPT MEMO SAYS TORTURE MAY BE JUSTIFIED
**      SENSITIVE SECURITY INFORMATION (CRS)
**      MILITARY COURTS-MARTIAL (CRS)
**      MILITARY FORCES: WHAT IS THE APPROPRIATE SIZE? (CRS)
**      NETWORK CENTRIC WARFARE (CRS)
**      NAVY ATTACK SUBMARINE PROCUREMENT (CRS)
**      BORDER SECURITY (CRS)


JUSTICE DEPT MEMO SAYS TORTURE MAY BE JUSTIFIED

The Washington Post has published the Justice Department
memorandum regarding the use of torture in prisoner
interrogations that Attorney General John Ashcroft refused to
disclose to the Senate Judiciary Committee last week.

The August 2002 memo from the Justice Department's Office of
Legal Counsel to White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales argued
that torture of captured al Qaeda terrorists "may be justified."
The memo was first reported by Dana Priest and R. Jeffrey Smith
in the Washington Post on June 8.

Now the memo itself has been made available online by the Post,
linked from this page:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38894- 2004Jun13.html

The Bush Administration's secrecy in the matter, although futile
in this case, has drawn scorn from critics.

"It is inexcusable to read about such memos in the Wall Street
Journal, Washington Post and New York Times and then to have
them denied to the Senate by the Executive Branch," said Sen.
Patrick Leahy (D-VT) in a statement last week.

"Hiding these documents from view is the sign of a cover-up, not
of cooperation," said Sen. Leahy, a member of the Senate
Judiciary Committee. "It is troubling to see Attorney General
Ashcroft take the Bush Administration into cover-up mode as the
Senate tries to get to the bottom of the prison abuse scandal."


SENSITIVE SECURITY INFORMATION (CRS)

Sensitive Security Information (SSI) is information concerning
transportation security that is exempt by statute from public
disclosure. Critics argue that the scope of SSI is too large and
poorly defined, and that information is wrongly withheld from
the public as a result.

Recent controversies over SSI and a menu of policy options for
addressing them are provided in a new report from the
Congressional Research Service.

See "Sensitive Security Information and Transportation Security:
Issues and Congressional Options" by Mitchel A. Sollenberger,
CRS, June 9, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL32425.pdf


MILITARY COURTS-MARTIAL (CRS)

"The recent reports of abuse of prisoners held by the military
in Iraq have raised questions about how the armed forces
discipline and punish those who commit crimes or violate the
rules and regulations of the military.... This report provides
an overview of military courts-martial: who can be tried,
potential punishments, and the appeals process."

See "Military Courts-Martial: An Overview" by Estela I. Velez
Pollack, Congressional Research Service, May 26, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RS21850.pdf


MILITARY FORCES: WHAT IS THE APPROPRIATE SIZE? (CRS)

Should U.S. military forces be increased, and by how much?
Should any increase be permanent or temporary?

Current discussions of these and related questions are
summarized in "Military Forces: What is the Appropriate Size for
the United States?" by Edward F. Bruner, Congressional Research
Service, updated May 28, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RS21754.pdf


NETWORK CENTRIC WARFARE (CRS)

Network centric warfare (NCW) is the subject of another new
Congressional Research Service report. NCW is a somewhat elusive
concept that involves increased reliance on networked
communications to support military operations.

See "Network Centric Warfare: Background and Oversight Issues
for Congress" by Clay Wilson, CRS, June 2, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32411.pdf


NAVY ATTACK SUBMARINE PROCUREMENT (CRS)

The Navy is currently procuring one Virginia-class attack
submarine per year, towards an anticipated total of 55. Each
submarine costs about $2.3 billion.

The submarine procurement profile is analyzed in "Navy Attack
Submarine Force-Level Goal and Procurement Rate: Background and
Issues for Congress" by Ronald O'Rourke, Congressional Research
Service, June 2, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32418.pdf


BORDER SECURITY (CRS)

Hundreds of millions of inspections are conducted annually at
U.S. border crossings. Immigration, customs, plant and animal
inspections are now all conducted under the unified authority of
the Department of Homeland Security.

A new report from the Congressional Research Service offers a
comprehensive examination of the legal, administrative and
policy issues involved in border security.

See "Border Security: Inspections Practices, Policies, and
Issues," CRS, May 26, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL32399.pdf

Direct public access to CRS reports such as these is not
authorized by Congress or CRS officials. Online public access to
CRS products is actively opposed by congressional leaders like
Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH), chair of the House Committee on House
Administration.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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   Jun > Jun 14

                               Corso Critiques

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:20:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:30:29 -0400
Subject: Corso Critiques


FWD (PvT) Re: Corso Critiques

Terry,

Thank you for the references that you gave me. I had not seen
them before.

Although when I read the book [Beyond Roswell] there seemed a
lot of "closeness" on a great deal of what he wrote about. E.g.
"Flexible circuits" actually do seem to fit the time frame along
with "night vision goggles", fiber optics, fly-by-wire, and IR
targeting and ranging fit into that time period quite nicely.
Then consider the advancement of "Ceramics" in electrons
microcircuits, airframe parts, and Nanotechnology emergence.

Remember, Airborne Weapons Control Systems is/was my field, and
the advances that I saw in my years of active duty and what I've
heard since I retired are real eye openers.

Craig


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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   Jun > Jun 15

                         Re: The UFO Myth - Christol

From: Michael Christol <spachopr.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:11:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:23:12 -0400
Subject: Re: The UFO Myth - Christol


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:03:36 -0700
>Subject: The UFO Myth

>From: Leslie Ellen Jones <lejones.nul>
>To: <forteana.nul>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:17:47 -0700
>Subj: FWD [forteana] Re: The UFO Myth


>Speaking as a mythologist, the "myth" in the sense of a
>cosmological narrative is that there is intelligent life on
>other planets, whose technology is more advanced than ours at
>least to the extent of being able to fly to other planets before
>we were able to make it to our own moon. It thereby questions
>the dominant cosmological myth of our planet, namely, that a
>single deity (be it Yahweh, God, or Allah) created the world and
>gave humankind a unique position over all other forms of life.
>You may argue that this is not the cosmology of modern science
>and that the idea that there is life elsewhere in the universe
>is consonant with the scientific worldview, but it could be
>argued that the UFO myth is exactly that, a "scientific" myth,
>i.e., a cosmology that incorporates the concept of non-Earth
>life in opposition to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic cosmology. The
>ironic part, of course, is that since Science defines itself as
>Not-Myth it therefore also rejects its own mythic form.

>leslie

>Leslie Ellen Jones, Ph.D.
>Jack of All Trades and Doctor of Folklore
>lejones.nul
>http://www.members.authorsguild.net/ljones/


Hmmmm.... I just wonder about the myth that "intelligent life"
exists on Earth, much less elsewhere in the Universe.

Mike C.







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                Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:42:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:26:03 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:51:25 -0400
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:22:56 -0700
>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:53:07 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

><snip>

>>>I took your advice; here's my letter to the reporter:

>>I didn't see anyone else do so, so allow me to be the first to
>>congratulate you on an excellent letter!

>I thought I had done so, Jim. It was an excellent letter.

Sorry if I missed it.

I can't wait to hear the response (if any!). Media coverage of
UFOs was one thing I specialized in back in the 80s, and I took
several informal surveys of members of the press back then which
showed an unmistakable bias against the subject. To my surprise,
the press types I talked to were rather candid about the
"laughter curtain," and the editorial pressure they felt to
always treat the subject with tongue planted firmly in cheek,
lest their outlet be accused of taking such a thing serously.

Matter of fact, I think I'll do a Google search to see if any of
my survey results files still exist "out there."


==JJS==






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              MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:37:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:28:52 -0400
Subject: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'


Dear List:

After a few years of general inattentiveness to UFO matters, I
began looking into the happenings in the UFO field. (Interest
revived due to recent high profile UFO events in Mexico and
Iran.) I checked out MUFON's list of scheduled events:

http://www.comufon.org/MUFONsymposium2004Schedule.htm

As you will note (if you go to above link), there is an "Allies
of Humanity" workshop scheduled. My looking into this via:

http://alliesofhumanity.org

revealed the proposition that benign aliens have been monitoring
the activities of not so benign aliens here on Earth for the
last 12 years. The source for this "information" is apparently
the result of "channeling" (by one person) revelations from this
monitoring group of aliens.

I also noted that various representatives of MUFON provided
glowing reviews of the book presenting this bit of "news".
(Since I haven't subscribed to the MUFON Journal for years, I
must admit I'm somewhat "in the dark" about many UFO-related
issues. Over the last few years, I have only looked occasionally
at this List and Davenport's UFO Reporting Center.)

My question is: how serious is the "Allies of Humanity" thesis
being taking in the UFO field? (I presume there's been no
objective and independent verification of it.)


Mike Jamieson
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufofieldreview/








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                          What's Happened To Weird?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:55:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:55:11 -0400
Subject: What's Happened To Weird?



Source: The Guardian - UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1238030,00.html

06-14-04

What's Happened To Weird?

Nessie's turned into a real recluse. The men from Mars no longer
pay us flying visits. And the spooks have been spooked. Why have
all the sightings dried up? Sean Thomas investigates the
mysterious death of the paranormal

Ghosts, Nessie, Bigfoot, "little silver men with menacing
probes": there was a time we used to hear a lot about these
various manifestations of the strange, spooky and suspect. But
not any more. In the past few years there has been a spectacular
market crash in many kinds of paranormal activity; somehow our
world just isn't as weird as it was.

Take the Loch Ness Monster. Since the first modern sighting in
1933, Nessie-watchers have been able to rely on about 15-20
reported sightings a year, with occasional paranormal peaks of
up to 40. This January the official Loch Ness Monster fan club
admitted that in the preceding 18 months they had heard of a
meagre three spottings. "There has been an unusually low number
of sightings, all of which were made by local people," admits
Gary Campbell, club president. "It appears that no tourists at
all have seen anything unusual."

Then there's the slump in hauntings. Tony Cornell is a vice-
president of the Society for Psychical Research, the UK's most
prestigious ghost-busting association. Cornell has been
investigating ghosts for 50 years but hasn't been using his
=A38,000 of poltergeist-detecting equipment of late. "The society
used to get maybe 60 to 80 reports of ghosts in a year," he
says. "Now we get none. None at all. A remarkable decline. It is
still very strange."

But the starkest evidence for this general dwindling of
weirdness probably comes with UFOs. Earlier this year, the UK's
favourite flying saucer fanzine, UFO Magazine, folded due to
declining sales. At the same time, Bufora, the top UK forum for
skywatchers, ruefully admitted that UFO sightings have been in
"steady decline" since the late 1990s. Most striking of all, the
British Flying Saucer Bureau has suspended its activities,
because the number of sightings has crashed from a peak of
around 30 a week to almost zero. Denis Plunkett, the retired
civil servant from Bristol who founded the bureau in 1953, says:
"I am just as enthusiastic about flying saucers as I always was,
but the problem is that we are in the middle of a long, long
trough. There just aren't enough new sightings. It is not like
being a philatelist. There is always something new to say about
stamps."

This isn't just a British phenomenon. In Indiana in the US an
amateur association of scientific ufologists known as Madar
(multiple autonomy detection and automatic recording) has seen a
steady and accelerating fall-off in UFO activity since the peaks
of the mid-70s. Likewise, New Jersey's skywatchers have openly
wondered whether to call it a day. Even the cold skies of
northern Norway are bereft: "It's unexplainable," says Leif-
Norman Solhaug, leader of Scandinavian skywatching society UFO
Nord-Norge. "Maybe people are just fed up with the UFO
hysteria."

So where has all the weirdness gone? One explanation that has
been mooted, ironically, is the advance in detection-technology.
Veteran Nessie-spotters, for instance, claim that hi-tech
tourists with their videocams and fancy digital imaging, not to
mention their whacking great SUVs parked hard by the loch, have
made Nessie shy. The trouble with this theory is that it was the
construction of a noisy new road beside Loch Ness in 1933 that
led to the very first upsurge in Nessie sightings.

As for ghosts or the lack thereof, one theory is that the
rampant spread of mobile phones is spooking the spooks. Cornell
points out that the fall-off in hauntings has really gathered
pace over the past five to 10 years, when cellphones have become
ubiquitous. "Humans now occupy all of the electromagnetic
spectrum. So maybe the ghosts, or whatever causes them, are
suffering from interference." But he adds: "I personally believe
the decline in hauntings may simply be because people haven't
got time to see ghosts any more. These days people are always
rushing around, playing computer games, surfing the net, and
such activities aren't great for experiencing apparitions."

As for the dearth of UFOs, several theories have been put
forward. Some blame global warming, others argue it is all a
government and media conspiracy and that there are just as many
as ever. More credibly, sociologists have asserted that
sightings are linked to the media in a cyclical way. When TV and
Hollywood are interested in UFOs, people will simply look at the
sky a bit more: hence the increase in sightings at the time of
the X Files, the Twilight Zone, and Close Encounters. Fewer
extraterrestrial films and shows might explain our current lack
of interest.

All the same, such a slump would presumably be short-term - yet
ufology hasn't seen a crisis like this for 50 years. And we
shouldn't forget that the paranormal "decline" is almost across
the board. Could there consequently be a more global
explanation?

That is certainly the view of the Fortean Times, the UK's
leading magazine of the weird and unexplained. "It is probably
the case that there has been a fall-off in reported paranormal
activity," says a spokesman. "We think this may be because the
ordinary world is so much more threatening, and interesting,
than it was a few years ago. These days journalists have wars
and atrocities to cover, so they aren't going to be chasing some
old poltergeist down the road. This doesn't mean, of course,
that there is less paranormality itself, just less coverage of
it."

So it's all the media's doing? Not necessarily. Some believe
9/11 and the war on terrorism have seized the dark place in our
minds once reserved for ghosts and bogeymen. Walter Furneaux, a
clinical psychologist from Brunel University who specialises in
the paranormal and parapsychology, says: "To the public the idea
of the al-Qaida terrorist, is almost like an alien. We don't
quite understand their culture, we don't quite know what they
look like, they live far away, and they are a perceived threat,
in a way perhaps we thought aliens could have been."

Some, however, see a bright side to all this, arguing that the
apparent decline in the paranormal is linked to a decline in
credulity; ie we are becoming less gullible. Others aren't so
positive. Tessa Kendall is a member of Skeptics, a London
association that analyses the paranormal. "Yes, there may have
been a drop off in ghosts and monsters," she says, "but there's
been a huge upsurge in conspiracy theories; people are more
paranoid and wary than ever. So this is, perhaps, how people are
now expressing their innermost fears."

The upshot? The next time you see a headless man in the hall, or
a cow being taken to Mars, be thankful. It means things may, at
last, be getting back to normal.


[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com & Richard Hendricks
 for the lead]








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                                  Utah UFO?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:30:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:30:48 -0400
Subject: Utah UFO?




Source: Fox TV 11 - Tucson, Arizona

http://www.fox11az.com/news/other/stories/KMSB-20040614-fambp-ufo.260c89259.html

06-14-04

Utah UFO?

By Scott Davis
NewsChannel 3

[Watch the video]

Taking pictures of the beautiful Utah countryside is part of
Tommy Woodard's job with the Utah Film Commission. Recently,
though, he captured something on film that's worthy of the
silver screen. That something just might be a UFO.

At a distance, it's just a speck. But when you zoom in, things
get interesting.

"When I was shooting the picture, I didn't see the object,"
Woodard said. "In relation to the ridge, it was tilted at an
angle right above the tree line."

As the photo librarian for the Utah Film Commission, Woodard
shoots any location filmmakers might want to see. He shot about
100 pictures the day he caught the startling images of what
might be a UFO.

"In all my pictures, I've never seen anything like this," he
said.

The picture that caused quite a commotion around the office came
from Provo Canyon.

"I didn't get out of the car when I took the specific shot,"
Woodard recalled. "I just leaned up to the car window, took the
shot and kept driving.

"I had around 20 people giving me their opinions. We've all come
up with the same conclusion."

 We asked Jim Dilettoso to analyze the photo, look for
"fingerprints of a hoax," as he called them. Here in Phoenix,
Dilettoso has spent years doing profession investigations of so-
called UFO pictures. Some of the pictures he's looked at have
turned out to be fakes.

"There are remote-control helicopters, really good ones ...
blimps, could be that," he said. "It's a good place to go play
with all those things."

Dilettoso said the ratio of the object's length to its width and
its coloring match the profile of a classic UFO. The differing
textures of the top and bottom edges probably mean that it's in
flight. What's more, the digital picture shows no evidence of
tampering.

"Bottom line: It's not a fake," Dilettoso said. "I can't find
any evidence that it was digitally faked."

Still, he's not ready to say this is a flying saucer from
another planet.

 "Now just because it's a 20- to 30-foot object, a couple
hundred feet away, doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft," he
said. "We then have a flying, hovering disc-shaped object that
goes into the category of unknown aircraft because we don't have
an aircraft on Earth that can hover like that."

"We had some people say that it might be a bird," Woodard said.
"But how can that be a bird?"

Woodard said that no matter what it is, he's glad he was in the
right place in the right time to capture it on film.

"This just looks incredibly like the pictures that you've seen
on TV before," he said. "It's unidentified, it's flying, and
it's an object."

Dilettoso also is just about to complete his analysis of
videotape the Mexican air force recorded. That tape shows 11
mysterious balls of light, objects some are calling UFOs. (Click
here for more.) Watch for more on that story later this week.







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 15

                     Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 03:13:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:36:36 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - McGonagle


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:39:59 -0500
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:04:38 +0100
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 20:30:16 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

><snip>

Hello Santiago, List,

<snip>

Thank you for the clarification about the naming convention, it
has confused me in the past.

I think at this point is is worthwhile me setting out my current
views about this case, and the people involved with it. I shall
cover some of these again in more detail later in the post.

1. I think it is a very interesting case, relevant to ufology
even if only because similar cases may result in UFO reports in
the future. My gut feeling is that there is a non-paranormal
cause for the sighting, but I acknowledge that this is equally
as valid as those who hold the view that the cause is most
likely of paranormal origin. Only when the investigation is
complete will we know for certain (assuming a conclusive
result).

2. I genuinely appreciate the efforts being made by Santiago in
keeping the list informed as to developments of the case, John
Velez's admirable efforts with the translations, and Bruce
Maccabee's application to the task of analysing the visual
material. I fully realise how much time and effort they are
devoting to this case, and regard their contibutions in these
areas as of vital importance.

3. I have grave concerns as to why SEDENA went straight to a
media presenter with a vested interest in producing an anomalous
conclusion to the incident, and why they did not consult
scientists in the first instance. The scientists have resources
at their immediate disposal which are only available to media-
presenters through intermediaries, if at all.

4. I have even greater concerns about the methodology and
objectivity of many of those directly involved in the
investigation.

>>So has your initial assessment of Navarro as a member of a
>>contradictory, wreckless group of scientists who don't know what
>>they are talking about, altered?

>No, you are distorting the fact. Mr. Rafael Navarro told the
>SEDENA staff during their meeting that his perception of the
>Flir images was now diferent once he was briefed by them. He
>did'nt mentioned any other theory or posibility to the phenomena
>that came to his mind at that moment. Just said that he was
>interested in studying and analyze the images and data more
>carefully before reaching a preliminar conclusion wich we all
>welcome and agree. Just to clearify Mr. Navarro and Mr. Herrera
>are two of the four UNAM teachers that gave the press conference

No, I'm not distorting the facts, they are based on your
comments in an earlier post at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m14-027.shtml

Unless I have grossly misunderstood what you wrote there (not
impossible) my paraphrasing above is an accurate reflection of
your initial assessment I believe?

>>No, I was not aware of this (I have had no reponse to my email to
>>Navarro). However, given that Garrido has connections to the
>>infamous "Doctor" Reed - see:

>I don't know about that and it's not of my concern. We are

This frightens me somewhat - you are unaware of the background
of people that you are supposedly working closely with, and to a
large extent dependant on for your information which you are
then forwarding on to the list? In other words, you cannot vouch
for the information supplied through you?

>discussing the SEDENA issues and that's our interest here. The

Actually, my initial post was in the context of why scientists
may not want to take an active role in ufology.

>fact that Mr. Rafael Navarro was invited by Rodolfo Garrido to
>review the SEDENA footage was legitimate and responding to a
>claim made by Navarro of not being contacted initially by SEDENA
>to review the footage for making a proper analysis. The offering
>by Garrido was sincere and obligatory due to the circumstances
>of Mr. Navarro's claim to the press. Since Jaime Maussan was the
>only authorized by the Secretary of Defense to handle the
>footage and conduct this investigation Jaime decided to give a
>copy of the footage to Mr. Navarro and collagues once their
>press conference took place and their claims were published. The
>offering was made by Rodolfo Garrido.

>It was Mr. Navarro's privilege to accept or refuse the offering
>but we feel that the offering was honest and in the best
>interest to this investigation.

Okay, I can accept that from your/Maussan's/Garrido's point of
view it was a magnanimous offer. I can also understand why
Navarro rejected the offer. Already there have been issues aired
on-list about the completeness or otherwise of the material
provided by Maussan/Garrido. I am not saying that there was any
intended ommission (nor, at this stage, am I saying that there
was not), but it does create doubts, especially in the knowledge
that Maussan is a television presenter who's popularity (and
hence the TV company's advertising revenue) would be enhanced if
the outcome of the investigation concludes a paranormal cause.
It is obvious that concerns other than the simple truth could
influence the investigation. If Navarro could obtain the data
directly from the source, he would only need to assure himself
that the source was not holding anything back.

>>The four UNAM teachers even refused to talk to the National
>>Meteorologic Sevices to request the March 5, 2004 meteorological
>>charts for the Campeche zone according to the required
>>proccedure to reach a conclusion based on a meteorological
>>phenomena. Do you think Mr. Gonagle that this attitude was
>>responsible and professional?

>>Without knowing the circumstances of the refusal, I am unable to
>>offer any opinion. I take that we can add arrogant,
>>irresponsible, and unprofessional to contradictory, reckless,
>>and uninformed to your personal assessment of these scientists?
>>Hardly the way to win their support, wouldn't you agree? What
>>sort of co-operation could you realistically expect from them
>>after so many insulting remarks?

>First you are avoiding clevery the point here excusing yourself
>for commenting something so clear and relevant to an
>investigation like the National Meteorologic Services necesary
>and required information of the Campeche area conditions on
>March 5, 2004, something that our team as well as SEDENA
>requested since the very beguinning but on the countrary the
>UNAM teachers did'nt do at anytime. Do you know what I'm talking
>about? Therefore once again Mr. McGonagle I must ask you for
>your comment on this attitude by the UNAM scientists, please
>don't dissapoint me.

Okay, I'll try not to disappoint you.....

1. If they declined to seek the information because they thought
it wasn't important, then it would have been extremely
negligent.

2. If they declined to seek the information because they already
had access to it, there is no issue.

3. If they declined to seek the information because they
regarded other issues as more urgent at the time, they may have
a valid point.

4. If they declined to seek the information because it was
raining, and they could collect it when the rain stopped, that
is understandable.

5. If they declined to seek the information because there was
no-one at the NMS (because it was lunchtime) there is no issue.

6. If they declined to seek the information because their
secretary was already doing it for them, there is no issue.

7. If they declined to seek the information because they had
time-critical work to finish before they could do so, they may
have a valid point.

8. If they declined to seek the information because they were
going to a party, it was unprofessional.

9. If they declined to seek the information because they didn't
know where the NMS is, it is unbelievably stupid.

10. If they declined to seek the information because they were
ordered not to by a higher authority, it is understandable.

I think by now you should understand my reasons for not wanting
to speculate further?

>So instead of asking first to the National Meteorologic Services
>the mentioned meteorologic charts the four UNAM scientists
>decided to give a press conference in Mexico city just after the
>release of the case exposing their theory of the lightning
>sparks as the cause of the SEDENA Flir images and criticizing
>the Secretary of Defense for contacting researcher and
>journalist Jaime Maussan instead of them.

>If you don't find this attitude unprofesional and irresponsible
>then I don't know what's your idea of Ethics.

Ignoring all of the "Ifs" above, have you verified with anyone
present at the press conference what was said, or in what
context it was said?

I refer you to my quote from Herrera (who I think you will agree
was present at the press conference):

"We were trying to put forward some possible explanations to the
March 5th event, based on fragmentary information we had about
it. We believe that it's certainly necessary to keep looking for
alternative explanations, until a reasonable conclusion can be
reached".

Herrera has since confirmed to me that my understanding of his
remark was correct, ie:

"As regards applying labels, as I understand Herrera, his
approach is to try and discover if any existing labels fit and
if not, to write a new one even if the writing spells "Alien
visitation". I see nothing wrong with that?"

As for any criticism which they may have levelled at the
Secretary of State for referring the case to a media presenter
with a vested interest and a poor track record of objective
research instead of to an academic panel, I entirely agree with
them for the reasons already mentioned above.

Also, I find the reported statement by General Gerardo Clemente
Vega Garcia, Secretary of Defense that the case material was not
given to scientists from institutions of higher learning "perhaps
because we do not know them or know who they might be" completely
ridiculous and unbelievable. I don't know anyone that fixes water
pipes, but I do know that if I look in telephone directory for
"Plumber" I will find someone that can. Similarly, if I want to
get in touch with a Physicist, Astronomer, or Meteorologist, I
would look under the heading "University". If the Secretary of
State does not know that, he shouldn't be doing the job that he
is doing!

Furthermore, I know for a fact that the MOD in the UK have their
own scientists, and also contract out classified scientific
projects to university departments. I would be most surprised if
SEDENA do not operate in a similar fashion.

So, what do you think the real reason is that the material was
passed to the media? Is the Secretary of Defense really so
intellectually challenged? Somehow I doubt it.

>skeptic group of scientists in order to do our research work?
>Maybe in your place the conditions are diferent and you have the
>blessing of the scientists to do your UFO research. In our
>experience there has been always debates and discussions among
>the UFO researchers and scientists, some of them positive and
>some of them dissapointing so whitout meaning a divorce in our
>relationship it's been always tense at least for some radical
>groups of scientists not all of them. You should learn more
>about this.

It's exactly the same here, in my opinion, because of the
fanatic attitude presented by the most vociferous and least
rational elements of ufology. Science (generally, there are some
exceptions) has given up on co-operating with ufologists
precisely because of reactions such as yours to their interest
in the topic. You should learn more about this.

>Finally you mentioned insulting remarks referring to
>unprofesional and irresponsible ? You should know what these
>four UNAM teachers said about the SEDENA, Jaime Maussan, our
>research team and the mexican ufologists during their press
>conference and later on national television. Is their reaction
>ethic? Unless you are also a skeptic and share their convictions
>it seems to me that you are still not well informed of so many
>things regarding the course of this investigation.

It doesn't take an academic to recognise the conflict of
interest and lack of objectivity displayed by Maussan and
Garrido. If you are indeed unaware of their lack of credibility,
I refer you to:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/hall4.html

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/garrido.html

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/exposed10.html

And if having read those, you still regard them as credible,
then I have to question your own credibility.

>>I have read most of the coverage of the case on the internet, as
>>you say, primarily on UFO UpDates. Is there something wrong with
>>the infomation provided here? Are you not publishing the facts
>>on the List? Are you saying that they are unreliable? I am
>>confused by your apparently contradictory implication that what
>>I read on UpDates is not valid.

>If you just could make a proper research of this case since the
>beguinning consulting and reviewing all my reports published in
>several websites including this list you would have a clear view
>of every step taken on this investigation, all the people
>involved inside and outside the SEDENA, interviews, analisis by
>diferent friends scientists, the footage itself, updates and
>last minute developments including new testimonials from SEDENA
>officials, all this have been published widely and distributed
>openly to many friends and websites all over the world.

I have expressed my gratitude to you above for keeping us
informed as to the progress fo the investigation. I still don't
understand why you suggested that the internet is not a viable
source for information about this case, given your excellent
coverage?

>Now you are trying to be smart here putting words in my mouth
>implying that false assumption about the Updates information
>being not valid. Your position and intention is clear and I will
>not follow that.

I think you mean that you can't support your comments about me
having sourced the majority of information about this case from
the internet?

>>>Is this not the approach that all ufologists should take?

>>Why should I approach the people you mention in order to obtain
>>clarification of media quotes not made by them and who, as far
>>as I know. were not present at the event during which the
>>statements were made? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

>Then what makes sense to you at all in this case sir? You have
>not followed then this case since the beguinning and you have
>not learned all the facts made public and published all over the
>world by the PRIMARY researcher and the research team for weeks.
>Then what do you know about this case? We don't know who you
>are or what are your credentials and since you have not being
>interested in contact any of us we don't have to prove anything
>to you.

I think that this post should convince you that you are wrong
about me not having followed the case. It should also cause you
to question the credentials of some of the research team as
well.

>>What have I said that was inaccurate? I accept that I was
>>unaware of the offer to participate by Rodolfo Garrido.
>>Incidentally, can you tell me when exactly this offer was made?
>>Other than that, the facts stand as far as I am aware.

>As I mentioned before the offering was made after the UNAM
>teachers gave their press conference and talked on national
>television. The offering was the required response. Can you tell
>us if our response to them was mistaken?

I apologise again for the inaccurate suggestion that no approach
had been made to the scientists concerned. Mea Culpa.

>We will continue our research work on this case openly to every
>person, researcher, media representative, scientist and even
>skeptic that approach us with seroiusness and ethic in the best
>interest of this investigation. We have advanced significant
>steps but we are still far from reaching any conclusion yet
>about what happened that afternoon over the El Carmen, Campeche
>aerial space. The enigma is still there.

I applaud the open approach, and the hard work that is being
done by many of the individuals involved.


Regards,

Joe









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 15

              Re: Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:48:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:38:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:12:25 -0700
>Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This World

>>Source: Florida Today

>>http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/indexcox.htm

>>06-10-04

>>Tales and observations from the edge

>>Columnist Billy Cox

>>Ronald Reagan's Legacy Goes Well Beyond This World

><snip>

>>Reagan's sighting occurred in 1974, when he was flying aboard a
>>Cessna Citation as governor of California. He told the story to
>>a Wall Street Journal reporter, and his pilot, Bull Paynter,
>>provided additional details. What started out as a white light
>>over Bakersfield, maybe several hundred yards away from the
>>plane, began to "elongate" as it accelerated away at a 45-degree
>>angle, around 10 p.m. "The UFO went from a normal cruise speed
>>to a fantastic speed," Paynter said, "instantly."

><snip>

We've all heard this story before (and kudos to the reporter for
bringing it up in a mainstream forum). However, I recall an
appearance by Stan Friedman on Ron Reagan Jr.'s talk show in
which the younger Reagan categorically denied that his father
had ever seen a UFO. (You remember that, right Stan?) Did we
ever clear this up? Has the provenance of the story been fully
established?

Just curious if there's a "rest of the story."

==JJS==









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 15

                       Re: MIB Another Thought - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:28:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:45:07 -0400
Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought - Gates


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:21:13 +0000
>Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:38:04 EDT
>>Subject: MIB Another Thought

>>Of interest is an article that is going to appear in the June
>>21 issue of Newsweek. The article is quoted below. Of interest
>>in the article is one paragraph:

>>"Ever since the 1970s, when Army intel agents were caught
>>snooping on antiwar protesters, military intel agencies have
>>operated under tight restrictions inside the United States. But
>>the new provision, approved in closed session last month by the
>>Senate Intelligence Committee, would eliminate one big
>>restriction: that they comply with the Privacy Act, a Watergate-
>>era law that requires government officials seeking information
>>from a resident to disclose who they are and what they want the
>>information for."

>>In essence prior to the privacy act, and perhaps later this year
>>you could have govt agents show up at your door, not identify
>>themselves as working for the government, ask questions...
>>perhaps demand certain information be turned over...ala some
>>cases of so called Men in Black.

>All I can say is that if people are dumb enough to speak to
>unidentified agents at all, they deserve to be duped. There is
>absolutely no requirement for them to do so. In fact, they can
>kick them out of the house "toot sweet" if they want to do so,
>and/or call the local police...and watch the fakers run for
>cover.

>I have been approached by FBI, CIA, and Secret Service agents
>over the years. They absolutely never engage in any bullying or
>threatening behavior. They are polite to a fault. And they will
>hand their identification cards over to you for careful
>inspection.


Dick,

I agree for the most part. I guess my point was that if this
provision in the law is passed, then we may easily see the day
when govt agents approach people, talk to them blah blah without
providing ID and perhaps without being so polite.


Cheers,

Robert








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 15

                                Funky4Worlds?

From: Colin Stevenson <<colsweb.nul>>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:48:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:47:14 -0400
Subject: Funky4Worlds?


Hi Listers

I am trying to find the snail mail address of this Sci Fi/UFO/ET
club which was/is based in the UK and advertised in the past in
some well known UFO magazines across the world and was very
popular at the time.

Can you help me?


Kind regards

Col








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   Jun > Jun 15

                 Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:58:37 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:53:17 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Burns


>From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:31:22 +0100
>Subject: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive?

>If there's anyone from BUFORA on this List, can they answer the
>following:

>After forty-two years, one would imagine that BUFORA would have
>collected a mammoth data-bank of UK UFO Sightings?


Roy, EBK, Listers,

I can answer your questions:

The BUFORA archive is indeed a mamouth archive, which we have
estimated and this is only a rough estimate to be maybe 10,000
plus documents and reports.

The estimate for the audio and video recordings from speakers
since the 60,s right through to the presnt day is about 600
hours of audio. Featuring many historical lectures through the
history of the subject. Including, I am led to believe, a rare
interview with Adamski.

>Where has BUFORA stored all of these forty-two years of UK UFO
>Sightings?

At present most of the archive is stored with the BUFORA
chairwoman Judith Jaafar.

>Is it open to UK UFO Researchers, to look at for research
>purposes?

First off then, at present the entire BUFORA archive is being
scanned and made ready for its launch on the BUFORA website

Roy, the reason I can give you detailed answers to your
questions are as follows. Since last year, I am pleased to
inform you and the list that I am one of the team members
involved in the BUFORA on line project.

This is a massive project Roy, and List, I can tell you that I
have read some fantastic reports dating back from pilots during
the second world war etc. It really is a ufolological treasure.
However I and the other team members have not had the chance to
read to many files. We have a got a job to do.

As part of this process first we have had to sort the entire
archive into date and year order, which I can tell you and the
list has taken us quite some time and effort. The project has
included the writing of our own search engine the software for
this has been wriiten by Richard Conway. It will make the entire
archive very user friendly when searching for specific topics
and aspects of UFO incidents.

When the archive goes on line at www.bufora.org

>If yes, what does one need to do, or acquire, before one can
>have access to the UK UFO sightings forty-two year database?

The archive will be available to all members of BUFORA on line.
As well as maybe other aspects of access not finalised yet. But
I am led to believe that it will be members only. Also maybe by
written request from the press etc.

Obviously I am not on the Bufora council, and the full details
will be available closer to the launch, But members will have
priority I do know this.

>If no Database then what have BUFORA done with the forty-two
>years of UK UFO Reports, from the UK public?

Roy, I am sure that you are more than pleased with the answers
that I have supplied. As you and the list can appreciate many of
us are giving our time effort and money ( travel expenses ) to
bring this project to a conclusion that will certainly be of
interest and the benifit of UK and Global ufology. It is a
pleasure to be involved in something of a positive nature
instead of having to deal with the Robfarts and the evil Dr
Klurkes of this world. My article, "The Usual Suspects" will be
going on line very soon for all to read about disinformation in
UK ufology. Some of you have all ready read the article.

Back to the BUFORA ON LINE PROJECT.

Just some of the team members are, Matthew Williams, Richard
Conway Judith Jaafar, Stan Conway, Robert Rosamond, John
Wickham, my self. Others are also involved. Bufora members can
contact BUFORA if they are interested in being involved or
simply for a progress report of how the archiving project is
progressing.

Naturaly there will be detailed press releases closer to the
launch of the archive and these will be coming through the
Bufora press officer. Jon Downes

>One reason for asking this, is that BUFORA are a main name in UK
>UFO Research for the last forty years, so one would imagine that
>UFO Sightings data would have been collected and stored, for
>future research purposes, and archive interest, for researchers
>and TV etc.

The Bufora on line team are well into the scanning of the documents
at this point. Also at least 400 hours of audio have been digitized.

When will this go live? Dont know yet? How long is a piece of
string?

Can I also apologise to Richard Hall, who I promised data from
the archive but we were not in a position to give you acurate
data by your deadline date. Sorry Dick.


Roy, EBK and Listers.

I hope this project is of interest to the List. I am very
pleased to be involved in this historic project. I hope that
listers will offer there support to Bufora over the coming
months.


Max Burns

Team member BUFORA on line project.








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   Jun > Jun 15

                         Re: The UFO Myth - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:39:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:57:40 -0400
Subject: Re: The UFO Myth - Lehmberg


>From: Michael Christol <spachopr.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:11:00 -0500
>Subject: Re: The UFO Myth

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:03:36 -0700
>>Subject: The UFO Myth

>>From: Leslie Ellen Jones <lejones.nul>
>>To: <forteana.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:17:47 -0700
>>Subj: FWD [forteana] Re: The UFO Myth

>>Speaking as a mythologist, the "myth" in the sense of a
>>cosmological narrative is that there is intelligent life on
>>other planets, whose technology is more advanced than ours at
>>least to the extent of being able to fly to other planets before
>>we were able to make it to our own moon. It thereby questions
>>the dominant cosmological myth of our planet, namely, that a
>>single deity (be it Yahweh, God, or Allah) created the world and
>>gave humankind a unique position over all other forms of life.
>>You may argue that this is not the cosmology of modern science
>>and that the idea that there is life elsewhere in the universe
>>is consonant with the scientific worldview, but it could be
>>argued that the UFO myth is exactly that, a "scientific" myth,
>>i.e., a cosmology that incorporates the concept of non-Earth
>>life in opposition to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic cosmology. The
>>ironic part, of course, is that since Science defines itself as
>>Not-Myth it therefore also rejects its own mythic form.

>>leslie

>Hmmmm.... I just wonder about the myth that "intelligent life"
>exists on Earth, much less elsewhere in the Universe.

Verily, on the one hand, with much to substantiate given the
alleged leader of the free world has a reported IQ of 91 and our
seeming inability to confront our intellectual bigotries head-on
cripple us. On the other (?) ...kind of going for the easy
laugh, and a cheap shot.

This Humanity... is an interesting intelligence variant in a
likely unending cosmos of interesting intelligence variants. It
has complexity and nuance and it is afraid or even resentful of
its own intelligence. It has accomplished much. It has a long
reach that frequently has some grasp to it, and it, in small but
substantive ways, extends the powers of super-beings to
individuals to make of that power what they will. It allows the
microcosm to stand on the shoulders of the macrocosm (in western
civilization anyway) in a version of mass individual autonomy
reaching heights there is no record of exceeding.

Sure, there's much to ridicule, discredit, and deride. There is
much to sneer at, abhor, and detest. But there is also much to
admire, emulate, and revere. There is much to appreciate,
treasure, and celebrate. There is much to value. We shouldn't
forget that altogether.

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see...



JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                  Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:51:28 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:52:46 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Hall


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Reply-To: ufoupdates.nul
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Speiser
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:26:03 -0400

>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:42:38 -0700
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:51:25 -0400
>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:22:56 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:53:07 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>>I took your advice; here's my letter to the reporter:

>>>I didn't see anyone else do so, so allow me to be the first to
>>>congratulate you on an excellent letter!

>>I thought I had done so, Jim. It was an excellent letter.

>Sorry if I missed it.

>I can't wait to hear the response (if any!). Media coverage of
>UFOs was one thing I specialized in back in the 80s, and I took
>several informal surveys of members of the press back then which
>showed an unmistakable bias against the subject. To my surprise,
>the press types I talked to were rather candid about the
>"laughter curtain," and the editorial pressure they felt to
>always treat the subject with tongue planted firmly in cheek,
>lest their outlet be accused of taking such a thing serously.

>Matter of fact, I think I'll do a Google search to see if any of
>my survey results files still exist "out there".


Jim,

The media bias, of course, varies from individual to
individual... but if the biased individual is in the editor's
seat it can be a killer. I have vivid memories of an incident in
the 1960s when a young UPI reporter interviewed us at the NICAP
office, then phoned in to his editor to outline his proposed
story. He was greeted with "woo-woo" sounds and open ridicule.
Imagine what that can do to a young reporter's zeal to seek out
some facts about UFOs.

On the other hand, the Saturday editor of one of the (then)
several Washington papers took UFOs seriously, and often
published serious, factual stories usually based on NICAP
information, including a scoop when LBJ said something positive
about UFOs in a letter to Maj. Keyhoe. It all depends on the
attitudes of the gatekeepers.


 - Dick









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                       Re: MIB Another Thought - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:05:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:54:51 -0400
Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought - Hall


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:28:36 EDT
>Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:21:13 +0000
>>Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought

>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:38:04 EDT
>>>Subject: MIB Another Thought

>>>Of interest is an article that is going to appear in the June
>>>21 issue of Newsweek. The article is quoted below. Of interest
>>>in the article is one paragraph:

>>>"Ever since the 1970s, when Army intel agents were caught
>>>snooping on antiwar protesters, military intel agencies have
>>>operated under tight restrictions inside the United States. But
>>>the new provision, approved in closed session last month by the
>>>Senate Intelligence Committee, would eliminate one big
>>>restriction: that they comply with the Privacy Act, a Watergate-
>>>era law that requires government officials seeking information
>>>from a resident to disclose who they are and what they want the
>>>information for."

>>>In essence prior to the privacy act, and perhaps later this year
>>>you could have govt agents show up at your door, not identify
>>>themselves as working for the government, ask questions...
>>>perhaps demand certain information be turned over...ala some
>>>cases of so called Men in Black.

>>All I can say is that if people are dumb enough to speak to
>>unidentified agents at all, they deserve to be duped. There is
>>absolutely no requirement for them to do so. In fact, they can
>>kick them out of the house "toot sweet" if they want to do so,
>>and/or call the local police...and watch the fakers run for
>>cover.

>>I have been approached by FBI, CIA, and Secret Service agents
>>over the years. They absolutely never engage in any bullying or
>>threatening behavior. They are polite to a fault. And they will
>>hand their identification cards over to you for careful
>>inspection.

>I agree for the most part. I guess my point was that if this
>provision in the law is passed, then we may easily see the day
>when govt agents approach people, talk to them blah blah without
>providing ID and perhaps without being so polite.

Robert,

And my point is that (real agents or not) if they don't show you
ID you can boot them out of your house. You are not legally or
morally obliged to kowtow to unidentified people at any time
(unless you are a prisoner in certain notorious prisons).

If such a scenario as you describe were to come about, I think
you would see a mass exodus of agents (who are human beings, not
automatons) who would have no part of it. Also, if the present
administration keeps promoting outrageous and unAmerican laws,
they will get the boot too. However, from what I know of the
Congress that provision you cite doesn't stand a snowball's
chance of becoming law.









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                 Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:14:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:56:29 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Hale


>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:58:37 +0100
>Subject: Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive?

>Roy, EBK, Listers,

>I can answer your questions:

>The BUFORA archive is indeed a mamouth archive, which we have
>estimated and this is only a rough estimate to be maybe 10,000
>plus documents and reports.

>The estimate for the audio and video recordings from speakers
>since the 60,s right through to the presnt day is about 600
>hours of audio. Featuring many historical lectures through the
>history of the subject. Including, I am led to believe, a rare
>interview with Adamski.

Hi Max,

Thank you for the very detailed answer, it looks like we are in
for a real treat!

Look foward to the files on Download.

Best,

Roy








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                  Re: Genealogy Detective Needed - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:21:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:58:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Genealogy Detective Needed - Stanford


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:49:46 -0400
>Subject: Re: Genealogy Detective Needed

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:58:46 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Genealogy Detective Needed

>>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 03:30:39 -0400
>>>Subject: Genealogy Detective Needed

>>>I am looking for a genealogy enthusiast to do some "private
>>>detective" work of sorts to help track down someone from the
>>>Cincinnati area in 1950s for a UFO-related investigation. $100
>>>to whoever can successfully find this person or present-day
>>>relatives.

>>>If you could help or refer me to someone that could, please
>>>contact me privately at "ufo.nul"

<snip>

>Kenny, Ray and all-

>Is a geneoalogist the appropriate expert or would you really
>want a private investigator who could track down this person?
>Expertise at tracing courthouse records may not be what you're
>looking for. But I could be wrong.


Yes, in such a case as this, I think you may be correct in
suggesting that a private detective is best, but I suspect that
gets quite expensive. I have a few other ideas that Kenny or I
may try before considering that expensive, if more realistic,
alternative.


Ray Stanford








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                 Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 08:58:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:45:48 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale - Warren


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:42:38 -0700
>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:51:25 -0400
>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:22:56 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:53:07 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: SETI Puts Property Up For Sale

>><snip>

>>>>I took your advice; here's my letter to the reporter:

>>>I didn't see anyone else do so, so allow me to be the first to
>>>congratulate you on an excellent letter!

>>I thought I had done so, Jim. It was an excellent letter.

>Sorry if I missed it.

>I can't wait to hear the response (if any!). Media coverage of
>UFOs was one thing I specialized in back in the 80s, and I took
>several informal surveys of members of the press back then which
>showed an unmistakable bias against the subject. To my surprise,
>the press types I talked to were rather candid about the
>"laughter curtain," and the editorial pressure they felt to
>always treat the subject with tongue planted firmly in cheek,
>lest their outlet be accused of taking such a thing serously.

>Matter of fact, I think I'll do a Google search to see if any of
>my survey results files still exist "out there."


Jim , Don, Et Al,

Although I do get a reply occasionally, (when a mainstream
journalist motivates me to put pen to paper)I doubt that will
happen on this one; usually the response is rather expeditious
if there's going to be one.

Separately, the "giggle factor" with mainstream journalists in my
view is a "social phenomenon side-effect" from years of "public
debunking" by the powers-that-be. It's a form of mind-control,
however; I don't believe the "end result" was intentional, only a
bonus for the PTB. Does make one wonder now that the "cause and
effect" can be measured, how else it has been used to manipulate
"public thinking" as a whole.


Cheers,

Frank











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                Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:10:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:48:43 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Kaeser


>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:58:37 +0100
>Subject: Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive?

>The Bufora on line team are well into the scanning of the documents
>at this point. Also at least 400 hours of audio have been digitized.

>When will this go live? Dont know yet? How long is a piece of
>string?

>Can I also apologise to Richard Hall, who I promised data from
>the archive but we were not in a position to give you acurate
>data by your deadline date. Sorry Dick.

>Roy, EBK and Listers.

>I hope this project is of interest to the List. I am very
>pleased to be involved in this historic project. I hope that
>listers will offer there support to Bufora over the coming
>months.


Max-

The project you've outlined is well worth the effort, which I
know must be very great. My hope, as someone who is not a
"member" of BUFORA, is that all UFO data files will eventually
be made available on the Internet for all to use. I understand
the desire to retain some control over the information, but the
problem of small islands of data that are predominate in the
field is ineffecient and confusing for those new to the field.
MUFON has done the same thing in a limited way, providing on-
line information to "members", but I'm sure that they also have
to deal with organizing the data they've collected.

IMO, the data needs to be preserved for future researchers
throughout the world and not a limited subset.


Steve








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                 Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:01:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:16:17 -0400
Subject: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:39:56 -0300
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:42 +0000
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

<snip>

>>>F. Invisible, flying oil wells, etc., etc., etc.

>>>G. A, C, and E, or B, D, and F, but only if on weekends and
>>>during leap years.

>>>H. All of the above.

>>>I think that about covers it. Have I missed anything?

>>David,

>>That about covers it. Unless you want to include the ultimate
>>fallback position that, since it was released to Jamie Maussan
>>rather than to scientists whose minds are made up in advance,
>>it must be false.

>>I have some problems with Maussan's activities and reputation,
>>but in this case the objective evidence trumps all those pre-
>>emptive debunking comments.

>>At an absolute minimum, we have a very interesting, well-
>>documented event that any scientist worth his/her salt should be
>>intensely curious about and willing to investigate objectively,
>>not reflexively debunk it.

>I am in full agreement with Dick, but would like to add one more
>stupid explanation to David's list, namely that it was all a
>Mexican government hoax to draw media attention away from an
>ongoing big corruption scandal down there!. Which idea was
>actually put forth.

Dear Dr. Friedman and all.

I never expected this comment coming from you, a well known UFO
investigator and prominent Scientist who I admire, asserting
that my theory, included in the David Rudiak's list as a stupid
explanation.

Then, on that funny list maybe you should add this other two
explanations actually put forth.

I.-) Trucks or vehicles on highway 186.
J.-) Molniyas or medium-high altitude satellites.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jun/m01-002.shtml

I can't believe you support the idea that the oil wells flare
theory is not acceptable and that it is a "prosaic" explanation
as David Rudiak posted before making a joke of what I presented
as a possible cause of the doubtful sighting.

I know you are a Scientist but I don't know if you are a pilot.
Anyway I will try to explain why the Oil Wells Theory fits into
this "unexplained" case and at the end of this post you are
invited to visit my discoveries and proof about the FLIR video
lights based on official satellite and verifiable information
from distinguished members and their work with data available on
the web.

I don't know how many of you have been flying as a pilot in
command for more than 34 years, looking outside the cockpit
through the windshields of an airplane when searching through
the clouds for objects, marks, runways, buildings, sea shores,
obstacles or in any circumnavigation procedure avoiding bad
weather, high cloud formations (heavy cumulus, top buildings),
sand storms, you name it. Everything that has to do with a
pilot's perspective of things seen through the lateral and
frontal airplane's windshield, I have to add that to my
experience when making many important flight decisions and
supporting feasible theories.

Visual references provide to the pilot the most important
sensory information to maintain spatial orientation on the
ground and during flight, especially when the body and/or the
environment are in motion. During visual flight rules (VFR)
flights, central vision allows pilots to acquire external
information to make judgments of distance, speed, and depth.

Having a clear idea of the factualness and my experience in
flight visibility and how the objects are seen between the fog
or the clouds, it has to do with perspective that you'll agree
as an experienced scientist of the facts that must prevail in
any UFO investigation if you are willing to investigate
objectively.

The oil well flares theory is valid because they exist and there
is a possibility that should be accepted.

What is the formula for a known airplane's altitude and the
pilot's range or maximum horizontal sighting distance? How is
that at long distances the objects appear to be at the same
flying altitude when they are located on the earth's surface?

Flight Deck Perspective and situation awareness.

Situation awareness is gained by searching for and collecting
information. Situation awareness is knowing where you are and
what's going on. It's =93the big picture=94, and one of the very
foundations of pilot competence.

Scan pattern: Situation awareness can be seen as maintaining
control over a range of information sources. You do that by
looking at each source through a =93scan=94 pattern that you
control.

Based on that perspective where the fixed objects seem to move
while in reality the object that is really moving is the
airplane I repeat what I posted in my theory about the oil wells
of Cantarell field.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m27-011.shtml

"Please take your time to watch the video carefully and I hope
you also will notice what I discovered some days ago about the
Cantarell oil field in the Campeche Bay located in the Gulf of
Mexico, I insist, precisely in front of Ciudad del Carmen City
from which the oil wells are not to far away (50 to 90 Km from
the shore.)

"The objects (lights) are in a fixed position with a dark
background (the sea) while the camera on board is following the
lights that are showing in the screen as a very brilliant source
of light. There is a great distortion as there is no sign of an
object but only light. Take your time and repeat the video. Try
to focus as if the lights are STEADY and the camera movements
shows when turning in his axis that the clouds move sometimes
rapidly and then suddenly they stop moving while the lights
(UFO's) never changed their formation neither their speed."

"If you take your time you will see the fact that the lights
are always steady if we repeat the scene and see at the very
bottom of the FLIR screen that the AZIMUTH (Az) NEVER CHANGES
more than TWO or FOUR
 degrees."

The FLIR video shows many bright lights, 11 by the FLIR operator
(not a specialist) and 16 as counted by TELEVISA's most
respected News Anchor Joaquin Lopez-Doriga in Mexico.

See:

"A local television network on Tuesday broadcast a videotape by
the Mexican Air Force, showing the images of 16 unidentified
flying objects (UFO) detected in the southern state of
Campeche." http://www.ufoevidence.org/news/article84.htm

I saw the news program that day where Lopez-Doriga showed on
national TV 16 lights graphically counted and pointed one by one
in a video.

UFOs filmed over Mexico.
=46rom correspondents in Mexico City
http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9540458%255E13762,00.html

Why the Mexican Air Force "experts" didn't advise if they know
about those 16 lights (UFO's).

How is that the mexican air force experts didn't detect those 16
lights in a obligated investigation? Is Lopez-Doriga better
investigator than Maussan and Mexican Air Force experts?

Why Jaime Maussan never mentioned those 16 lights? Is it because
of a floppy investigation or what? Is something hiding on
purpose?

Wouldn't be better asking this and other important questions
rather than posting silly commentaries?

But now, apart from the above here is the truth.

Visit the following chart from The National System for
Geospatial-Intelligence (NSG) to calculate the horizon:

http://pollux.nss.nima.mil/calc/horizon.html

Input 10500 ft altitude and you will see how the oil wells match
the airplane and the horizon's distance based on data from DMSP
(Defense Meteorological Satellite Program).

http://dmsp.ngdc.noaa.gov/html/download_world_change_pair.html

See image created by James Smith who used the DMSP satellite
data to confirm the location and brightness of the Cantarell
platforms and used a 3D computer (3DMAX) program to match the
azimuth angles and flight path coordinates that fit almost
exactly.

http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/dmsp3.jpg

Image that coincides exactly with Laurent L=E9ger's graphic who
received information from Bruce Maccabee on the article's page
from Gildas Bourdais.

http://www.ufocom.org/pages/v_fr/m_articles/video_mexique/Image24.jpg

Program to view big TIFF archives:
PCI Geomatica FreeView V9.

http://www.pcigeomatics.com/product_ind/geomatica_9.html

My results regarding the C26A Flir's screen data, the
information posted in the list and with some very
valuable information from two friends are here:

See pictures:

http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/dmsp3.jpg
http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/dmsp3n.gif
http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/3d_oila.jpg

None of you provide any valuable data to detract the possibility
of the oil wells theory as a plausible cause of the FLIR's
unidentified images as I do.

I sustain my posture regarding my own experience. I could be
wrong, but unless the truth about this case is known any logical
explanation should be analyzed deeply.

I would like to emphasize that I am not a debunker. I am an
independent UFO investigator since 1963 and I believe in UFO's
and extraterrestrial intelligence. I believe in Roswell UFO
crash and your work.

There is a coincidence that I am a pilot and some Maussan's
hoaxes have to do with aviation, the only one information that I
have posted since Dec 13,2003 regardless of many other hoaxes
related to Maussan.

Maussan Makes Prediction For 12-12-03 -Franz

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/dec/m13-
005.shtml

I exposed the case of Aeromexico's DC9 and a UFO collision as a
hoax and still sustain what I posted and what is inside the web
page of the investigation.
http://www.alcione.org/OVNI94_engx.html

Mexican Air Force FLIR images are Oil Well flames!

http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/FLIR_CONCLUSION.html


Regards,

Capt. Alejandro Franz
director.nul
www.alcione.org
(non-profit)








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 24

From: John Hayes <John.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:41:41 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:23:33 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 24


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 24
June 16, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


SMALL ALIEN PHOTOGRAPHED
IN TEMUCO, CHILE

      "The first phone call that Erick Martinez of CIFAE,"
the Chilean UFO group, "received yesterday (Monday, June
7, 2004) came from the other side of the world.  It was a
journalist from a Japanese newspaper who wanted more
details about the alleged Parque Forestal 'alien.'"
      "'Japan's most important newspaper (Asahi Shimbun of
Tokyo--J.T.) published the photo,' explained Martinez,
'The fact of the matter is that they have had a legend for
thousands of years about a creature called the kappa.
According to them, the face in that photo resembles the
legendary creature.'"
      Kappas are the messengers of the river-god (in
Japanese mythology--J.T.).  They are as small as a primate
(monkey), with scaly greenish or yellowish skin, and they
drag humans to the river bottom to drown.'"
(Editor's Note:  Sort of like the kelpie of Irish
mythology.)
      Martinez, "the CIFAE director, said that 'the
journalist was translating for the people over there, and
when I told him that the Parque Forestal" in Temuco "was
only a few meters from the Rio Mapocho, they went wild.
If I understand correctly, he was telling me that they
still get (kappa sighting) reports.'"
      "The Parque Forestal will be analyzed closely this
Friday," June 11, 2004, "and Erick Martinez says that they
received a video recording of strange lights in the same
location where the 'alien' was photographed."
      "'I truly cannot say what it is, but we have a
strange photograph, we have strange video from the same
place...what can I tell you?  This tells me something is
going on.'"
      Temuco is located 675 kilometers (422 miles) south of
the national capital, Santiago de Chile.  (See the Chilean
newspaper Las Ultimas Noticias for June 8, 2004, "Chile:
Japanese startled by Parque Forestal photo."  Muchas
gracias a Scott Corrales y Liliana Nunez para esto
articulo de diario.)
(Editor's Comment:  And welcome to The New Aliens Week
here at UFO Roundup.  Our ET friends were in the Middle
East, too.  Read on...)


ALIEN STARTLES SEVEN AT
OLIVE GROVE IN SYRIA

      On Thursday, June 3, 2004, the Syrian government sent
motorized infantry regiments into Dimashq province after
"a red alien" was reported hiding in an olive grove just
outside the village of Al-Naiisia.
      "The case was reported in the government newspaper
Al-Teshreen," said Ayesha al-Khatabi, UFO Roundup's Middle
East correspondent.  "Seven men had walked out to the
olive grove to prune the trees.  One of them said he saw
something at the foot of a tree.  They all looked, and
then they saw a strange creature, red in color, sitting in
the shade of an olive tree.  It was very squat and bulky,
with a bald head and bat-wing ears."
      "The eyewitness accounts of the seven workers were
all in agreement.  They claimed to have seen 'a strange
creature that remained seated for a while before taking
running strides to climb a tree.'"
      "The encounter ended when 'the creature rocketed
skyward' from the tree 'with incredible swiftness after
leaving a trail of smoky white bubbles.'"
      "The government in Damascus ordered a search of the
olive grove, but the soldiers found nothing more than a
handful of olives scattered on the ground."  (See the
Syrian newspaper Al-Teshreen for June 4, 2004.  Many
thanks to Ayesha al-Khatabi for this newspaper story.)


ITALY REPORTS TWO UFO
SIGHTINGS

      On Wednesday, June 2, 2004, eyewitness F.G. reported,
"I was in the garden" at his home in Villasantina
(Tolomezzo), Carnia (Friuli province), Italy "at more or
less 5:30 p.m.  My younger brother was with me at the
time.  We spotted a long white object.  It looked like a
huge cigarette--though a little shorter than an actual
cigarette--but still gargantuan."
      "It slowly moved sideways within the clouds and
sometimes turned on itself (rotated--J.T.).  I immediately
ran towards the gate, trying to get closer to see what the
object was.  But as soon as I reached the gate and looked
at the sky, it wasn't there any more."
      Two days later, on Friday, June 4, 2004, eyewitness
V.R. reported, "A moving object slowly flew above my house
in Afferi," a suburb of Milano in northern Italy, "heading
towards the northeast, 'and it was not an airplane.'  I
looked up and down the street, and no one was there.  The
object looked like a rhombus and was slowly heading
towards the northeast.  The sighting lasted a couple of
seconds.  That's how long it took the object to disappear
behind some palaces.  It emitted bright white lights and a
loud noise."  (Grazie a Roberto Malini e Frederico Dezi de
UFO Italia per questi rapporti.)


UFO PHOTOGRAPHED IN
MONTE NOVO, PORTUGAL

      Portugal's UFO flap continued with a new daylight
disc sighting.
      "A UFO was photographed in Monte Novo between
Reguengos and Evora on Monday, May 31, 2004 at
approximately 2:30 p.m.  Four people at the site--two
engineers and two students--did not notice the presence of
the object until they observed the image picked up on
their digital camera."
      "Eduardo Silva, 25, of the Instituto de Soldadura e
Qualidade took the photo as he performed a water quality
survey on the sites of Monte Novo, Vigia and Caia."
      "'I only noticed it when I saw the photo.  That's
when we started saying it was a UFO, but I only gave it
importance when I saw the image,' explained Eduardo Silva,
'It was very hot, and there were no birds about, or
balloons or helicopters,' said the author of the photo."
      The newspaper "Correio da Manha reported last
Thursday," June 3, 2004, "that the Portuguese Air Force
had followed the tracks of a 'spindle-shaped'
(cylindrical) object which had crossed the national air
space."
      "On Monday," June 7, 2004, "Colonel Barbosa of
(Portugal's) Armed Forces High Command explained that they
were currently 'cross-checking information from the radar
images and the eyewitness accounts.'"
      "The photo provided to Correio da Manha shows no sign
of tampering.  The reflection of the sun on the apparently
metallic object agrees with the shadows of the tree shown
in the photo."  (See the Portuguese newspaper Correio da
Manha for June 10, 2004, "Portugal: UFO photographed in
Monte Novo."  Muito obrigado a Scott Corrales e Cristian
Quintero por eso caso.  For more on Portugal's current UFO
flap, see UFO Roundup, volume 9, number 23 for June 9,
2004, page 3.)


UFO DOGFIGHT IN ARIZONA?

      A large UFO was seen in Gila Bend, Arizona
(population 1,980) at about the same time an F-16 fighter
plane piloted by a lieutenant in Singapore's air force
crashed in the desert.
      According to the Arizona Daily Star, "the F-16
crashed in southern Arizona on (Wednesday) May 19, 2004
near Sells (population 3,000)."
      "The body of a Singaporean fighter pilot has been
recovered after his F-16 jet crashed during a training in
southern Arizona, military officials said."
      "Loo Kwang Han, 25, died in the crash, which occurred
about an hour after takeoff from Luke Air Force Base late
Wednesday."
      "Matthew Pebble, a construction worker who lives on
the Tohono O'odham (also known as Pima Indian--J.T.)
Reservation village of Pisinimo told the Arizona Daily
Star that he watched the light of the F-16 fire from his
porch Wednesday night."
      "'It came down like a falling star in a straight
line, and then...boom!' he said, using his hands to
imitate a blast."
      "Horses that roam the desert between the
(reservation's) Gu Vo district and Pisinimo district ran
screaming into the mesquite and cholla cacti away from the
fire."
      "Moments later, two helicopters flew into the area,
Pebble said.  He said he did not know it was an F-16 crash
until Thursday morning."
      "Brig. Gen. Philip Breedlove would not say Thursday
whether Loo tried to eject from the jet.  The cause of the
crash was under investigation."
      "Loo, who was identified by Luke (base) officials as
Lt. Brandon Loo, had earned his pilot's wings in 2001 and
became an F-16 pilot in January 2003."
      "Training operations were suspended Thursday as a
safety precaution but had been scheduled to resume Friday
morning."
      "Luke, in the Phoenix suburb of Glendale, is the
world's largest F-16 training base."
      However, that same evening, from 9:30 to 11 p.m., a
witness watched "a very large object in the sky--huge
object" over Gila Bend, Arizona, 50 miles (80 kilometers)
northwest of Sells.
      "Driving home from Yuma at 8 p.m., going east on
Highway 8, I watched a huge light for about 40 minutes,"
the witness reported, "It was too big to be a star, and it
was no plane.  It stayed very bright for a long time.  I
saw it wasn't moving and was amazed at how bright it was.
Then it looked like it went behind a cloud or smoke
surrounded it."
      "I had by that time pulled over to take pictures.
Then a bunch of F-16s flew towards it.  It started to dim
and moved a bit.  Then it kind of glowed or illuminated
from nothing for a few minutes.  Then it looked like it
went behind a cloud or smoke."
      "At that time, a cop pulled up to check out why I was
parked at night in front of Lewis Prison.  When I focused
back on the object, I saw it just shoot away.  It just
vanished.  It was gone completely."
      "Also, my cell phone signal weakened while I stared
at it."  (See the Arizona Daily Star for May 20, 2004.
Many thanks to Daniel Wilson for these reports.)


OKLAHOMA WOMAN SNAPS
PHOTO OF "RING OF LIGHTS"

      On Sunday, June 6, 2004, at 1 a.m., Darnette Taylor
was sitting on her deck at her home in Hugo, Oklahoma
(population 5,536) "and I had my digital camera, a Fuji
A201, taking pictures of the night sky.  I had heard a
loud noise earlier and I saw some orange flash, but I did
not get a picture of that object as the trees covered it."
      "Then, about 30 minutes later, I was sitting out on
the deck, and I looked towards Hugo and saw something
weird above the town.  I thought it could be some sort of
plane or helicopter, so I thought, I'll take a picture of
these moving lights and see what happens."
      "I work an evening shift.  Then, when I get home
after 11:30 p.m., I like to sit outside.  So I made me a
cup of hot tea and went out on the back deck to relax.  It
was around 1 a.m. in the morning that the shot was taken."
      Hugo, Okla. is on the Indian Nation Turnpike
approximately 72 miles (115 kilometers) south of
McAlester.  (Many thanks to Jim Hickman for this report.
Be sure to visit Jim's Web site--thehickmanreport.com.)


UFO FLAP ERUPTS IN
CENTRAL CANADA

      On Wednesday, May 26, 2004, at 2:55 a.m., "the
witness was travelling south on Highway 9 in Rivercrest,
Manitoba province, Canada.  To the east, they saw a large
light in the sky towards Transcona.  They stopped the car
and pulled over to watch.  The object was brilliant white
and had a red light going around its midsection.  As they
watched, the object began moving erratically in the sky
without a straight course.  When it began moving towards
them, they got back in the car and drove off."
      "The object appeared to be chasing them as they drove
towards Winnipeg.  At one point, the object appeared to be
very close to them, just over the treeline.  It flew over
the top of their car and took up position behind them.
The object made no noise."
      "When flying near them, the object 'looked like a
frisbee.'  The object then flew off to the west to St.
James.  When they drove from Winnipeg to Headingley about
20 minutes later, they thought they saw the object" again
"hovering over the city.  Investigation is continuing."
      On Thursday, May 27, 2004, at 10:55 p.m., "two
people, one of whom is an experienced astronomer" in
Libau, Manitoba, north of Winnipeg, "observed a very
bright, slow-moving fireball descending from the zenith
towards the northern horizon.  Its durability was about
four to five seconds, and its colour was first a light
green, changing to a yellow towards the end."
      On Sunday, June 6, 2004, "a group of people were
gathered in Crocus Park in Transcona," Manitoba "to watch
some fireworks that were scheduled.  Facing Winnipeg, they
saw an object 'like a little fluffy oval cloud' moving in
circles.  The weather was very murky, with a storm front
coming in from the west. (The fireworks were canceled--
C.R.)."
      "The object moved about in circles, quivered,
returned to the top, and repeated its movement several
times.  It then began circling to the left.  The witness
strolled over to other people, and they were watching the
object, as well.  The group then began walking home.
While walking for about a half hour, the object seemed to
follow them or 'keep pace with them,' causing them fright.
Many people watched it as they were walking home from the
park."
      "The witness again got into a car, and the object
again seemed to follow them as they drove.  The total
observation was about two hours.  The witness insisted
that they had never seen anything remotely resembling the
object and insisted it was not a searchlight from a nearby
casino."  (Many thanks to Canadian ufologist Chris
Rutkowski for these reports.)


CASSINI TAKES FIRST PHOTO
OF SMALL MOON PHOEBE

      The robot spacecraft Cassini took the first close-up
photos of Phoebe, the largest outer moon of Saturn, on
Saturday, June 12, 2004.
      "The internationally-built Cassini spacecraft
completed a flyby of Saturn's largest outer moon as it
prepared to enter a four-year orbit to study the ringed
planet, NASA officials said Saturday."
      "The plutonium-powered spacecraft, which is carrying
12 science instruments and a probe, came within 1,285
miles (2,056 kilometers) of the dark moon Phoebe."
      "The $3.3 billion spacecraft pointed its instruments
at the moon, then turned to point its antenna toward
Earth.  The spacecraft also transmitted data that
scientists will examine to answer questions about Phoebe's
mass and composition, said Torrence Johnson, a member of
Cassini's science team."
      On Saturday, the first pictures of Phoebe reached
Earth, showing a heavily cratered and badly-battered moon.
A few scientists suggested that Phoebe might be an Oort
Cloud asteroid that wandered too close to Saturn and got
caught in the gas giant's gravitational field.
      "Phoebe orbits in the opposite direction from
Saturn's other moons and rings--this retrograde motion
implying that this body wasn't born along with Saturn but
was subsequently captured by the giant planet's
gravitational field."
      "If all goes as planned, the next four years will
bring hundreds of images from NASA's heavily equipped $3.3
billion spacecraft.  Cassini will orbit 74 times around
the giant ringed planet, the sixth from the sun and nine
times the diameter of Earth.  Scientists expect to see
close-ups of several moons as well as the stormy surface
of the planet and its gossamer rings."
      "Cassini will visit a few other moons, including
mysterious Iapetus, with one face reddish black, the other
snow white; Enceladus, with its promise of ice volcanoes
that erupt with water, smoothing over parts of the
cratered surface; and giant Titan, bigger than the planet
Mercury and the second largest moon in the solar system."
(Editor's Comment:  Enceladus, with its nice view of
Saturn, will hopefully be the site of our future UFO
Roundup space colony.  We'll build a residential area,
Masinaigan Estates; a science institute with the Roundup's
editorial offices on the top floor; and some giant dish
antennae, so we can pick up alien cable TV channels as
well as transmissions from Earth.)
      "On Christmas Eve (2004), the spacecraft will drop a
small lander, called the Huygens probe, down to Titan's
surface, where it may hit land or bob around in some
frigid liquid-methane sea, there taking the world's first
pictures from the surface of another planet's moon."
      "Cassini will also get the world's first bird's-eye
view of (Saturn's) rings, which have fascinated
astronomers and sky watchers since Dutch astronomer
Christiaan Huygens and Italian Giovanni Cassini identified
and observed them in the late 1600s."
      "Astronomers calculate that the rings were born about
200 million years ago--back to the Age of Dinosaurs--but
still young compared to the 4.8-billion-year-old Saturn."
(See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for June 12, 2004,
"NASA spacecraft to explore one of Saturn's moons;" and
for June 13, 2004, "Phoebe gets a flyby.")

     Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth...and occasionally, the moons of
Saturn..brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO
Roundup."  See you in seven days.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 15

                           ecrecy News -- 06/15/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:27:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:31:58 -0400
Subject: ecrecy News -- 06/15/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 55
June 15, 2004


**      ORGANIZING INTELLIGENCE IN THE 1960s
**      RCFP GUIDE TO THE FOIA
**      FREE JIANG YANYONG


ORGANIZING INTELLIGENCE IN THE 1960s

The Director of Central Intelligence was furious.

"I am just about ready to tell the Secretary of Defense and the
President they can... shove it," he said.

"I think the thing I should do is call up the President and tell
him to get a new Director of Central Intelligence, that the
bureaucrats in the Pentagon are trying to screw things so that
nobody can run the intelligence business."

Was that George Tenet in 2004?  No, it was John McCone, Director
of Central Intelligence in 1964.  This particular complaint
concerned the conflict over control of the National
Reconnaissance Office, a Pentagon intelligence agency.

DCI McCone's statements were transcribed and published in a new
volume of the State Department's Foreign Relations of the United
States (FRUS) series which includes significant new
documentation on the organization of the U.S. intelligence
bureaucracy in the 1960s.

Among other things, the new documents address the establishment
in 1964 of the President's Daily Brief;  the challenge of
coordinating the intelligence community;  the struggle over the
NRO;  approval of covert action abroad;  and the Ramparts
magazine expose of 1967.

Much of the material has a familiar ring that resonates with
current controversies.  Thus, one document is entitled
"Discussion of Adequacy of DCI Authority to Coordinate the US
Intelligence Effort."  The volume editors note: "McCone
vigorously opposed the solution of detaching the DCI from CIA
and locating him closer to the President; the DCI could not
function, he asserted, if separated from the many CIA
specialists with whom he conferred regularly."

Some of the material has been frivolously censored by the CIA,
with the acquiescence of the State Department Historian's
Office.  Thus, one DCI memo from 1964 reads, "I told him our
budget was about [deleted] and said we had about [deleted]
employees."

Contrary to the preface by State Department Historian Marc
Susser, this deletion of 40 year old budget figures cannot
plausibly be justified by "the need to protect intelligence
sources and methods when disclosure will clearly and
demonstrably damage the national interests of the United
States."

The full text of the new FRUS volume, "Foreign Relations, 1964-
1968, Volume XXXIII, Organization and Management of Foreign
Policy; United Nations," is available here (the McCone eruption
quoted above appears in document 190):

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/xxxiii/


RCFP GUIDE TO THE FOIA

The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press has published a
newly updated edition of its handbook "How to Use the Federal
FOI Act."

The publication offers "step-by-step guidance for requesters
along with a short course on the exemptions to the FOI Act will
help them to frame their initial requests to agencies and to
write appeals of denials. The book offers advice on how to
obtain expedited review and suggestions for overcoming other
problems."  See:

http://www.rcfp.org/foiact/index.html


FREE JIANG YANYONG

The Chinese government's detention of Dr. Jiang Yanyong, the
physician who successfully challenged the official coverup of
the scale of the SARS epidemic in China last year, is drawing
international attention and concern.

"When a courageous doctor points out the Chinese government's
abusive practices, he should be honored," said Sam Zarifi,
deputy director of Human Rights Watch's Asia Division. "Instead,
the government has detained Dr. Jiang and held him
incommunicado."

See this Human Rights Watch alert:

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/06/10/china8794.htm

Dr. Jiang Yanyong was profiled last year in Time Magazine here:

http://www.time.com/time/asia/2003/poypm2003/jiang_yanyong.html



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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   Jun > Jun 15

                 Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:08:53 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:34:02 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive? - Burns


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:10:33 -0400
>Subject: Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive?

>>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:58:37 +0100
>>Subject: Re: BUFORA UK UFO Sighting Archive?

>>The Bufora on line team are well into the scanning of the documents
>>at this point. Also at least 400 hours of audio have been digitized.

>>When will this go live? Dont know yet? How long is a piece of
>>string?

>>Can I also apologise to Richard Hall, who I promised data from
>>the archive but we were not in a position to give you acurate
>>data by your deadline date. Sorry Dick.

>>I hope this project is of interest to the List. I am very
>>pleased to be involved in this historic project. I hope that
>>listers will offer there support to Bufora over the coming
>>months.

>The project you've outlined is well worth the effort, which I
>know must be very great. My hope, as someone who is not a
>"member" of BUFORA, is that all UFO data files will eventually
>be made available on the Internet for all to use.

Steve, EBK, Listers,

I am only a team member, and not on the council of BUFORA. So
with regard to policy and decisions regarding the launch of the
archive. I am not in a position to make comment on behalf of
BUFORA. Nor would I want to.

My personal feelings, I can address those for you. It is the
membership fee's that have made the organisation continue since
1962. This is only my opinion, my fee's included. I am of the
opinion that the members of BUFORA should have priority access
to the archive. After all it is the members who have funded the
organisiation, and have placed BUFORA in this new technological
age of being in the position to be able to make this historic
archive available much more easily than spending days of reading
voulumes of files in places like the PRO or the national news
paper archive at Colindale London. Maybe then to not come up
with anything of use or relervence to your search.

How many document researchers here know that feeling?


I as a member would be more than pleased to continue with my
membership, or if a non member to join, or renew an old
membership. To have access to one of the largest historical
ufological archives in the World. A small price to pay if you
ask me. After all the memberships which give the organsisation
funds to produce conferences, research, etc. Which is all the
good to ufology. Steve, this is just my two cents.

Steve, I hope you understand my point, as I understand yours.
However I do not speak for BUFORA and was only reporting some
facts in reply to a post while informing the list.


Max








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   Jun > Jun 15

                             Ufology And Science

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:07:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:35:47 -0400
Subject: Ufology And Science


Last week I debated the UFO phenomenon at the Cheltenham
Festival of Science. The festival runs for five days and is now
in its third year. Its sponsors and partners include the British
National Space Centre, The Royal Society and the United Kingdom
Atomic Energy Authority. The idea is to showcase high-profile,
interesting and contentious issues in contemporary science, such
as nuclear power, cloning, climate change and GM crops.

Attendees included NASA astronaut Mark Kelly, Beagle 2 inventor
Colin Pillinger and Lord Robert Winston. The opening speech was
given by Government Chief Scientist David King. Here's a link to
a BBC story about the event:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire/festivals/2004/04/sciencefest2.shtml

The debate itself was comparatively unremarkable. I said a
little bit about the MOD's UFO project, radar/visual sightings
and photographic analysis, and gave some examples of interesting
cases investigated by the Department. Radio astronomer Ian
Morison (a late replacement for BBC News Online science editor
David Whitehouse) talked about SETI, the Rare Earth theory,
Einstein's theories of relativity, and witness misperception.
This was followed by questions from the audience, and my only
disappointment was that despite being billed as a debate, no
vote was taken.

The interesting thing, of course, is that ufology got onto the
agenda at all, in a science festival of this kind. Consider this
alongside the fact that psychologists at Goldsmiths College
University of London are conducting a scientific study into the
alien abduction phenomenon. And consider it alongside the fact
that the Science Museum's new multi-million pound Dana Centre
held a UFO debate last December. I believe these are encouraging
signs for ufology.

If nothing else, it rather undermines some of the silly 'ufology
is dead' stories that have been circulating here in the UK
recently.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                           Reagan's UFO Sightings

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:26:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:38:15 -0400
Subject: Reagan's UFO Sightings


Ronald Reagan had at least two UFO sightings.

One was the incident on Cessna Citation as governor of
California as is being discussed on this list.

The second incident was when he and Nancy were driving down the
coast highway to a cocktail party in Hollywood. He arrived late
and explained that the delay was because he and Nancy had
stopped to watch the object. This story was told by the late
comedian Steve Allen and it is also told by Lucille Ball on page
125 of her book "Lucy in the Afternoon."


"My God If this is the best intelligence they�ve got and we find
nothing, what about the rest of it."

--Hans Blix speaking about the US military claims of WMD in Iraq


--








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   Jun > Jun 15

                 Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:35:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:59:14 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of


>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:37:32 -0700
>From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>Dear List:

>After a few years of general inattentiveness to UFO matters, I
>began looking into the happenings in the UFO field. (Interest
>revived due to recent high profile UFO events in Mexico and
>Iran.) I checked out MUFON's list of scheduled events:

>http://www.comufon.org/MUFONsymposium2004Schedule.htm

>As you will note (if you go to above link), there is an "Allies
>of Humanity" workshop scheduled. My looking into this via:

>http://alliesofhumanity.org


Hello Mike:

I can only speak for myself.

I regard any sort of "channeled information" with extreme
prejudice, especially when it involves benevolent space
brothers, multiple alien races etc.

I see this as a new-age stuff, and don't waste any time on it.
One unintended benefit is that it helps calibrate those who buy
into it for future reference.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:55:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:02:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:01:42 -0700
>Subject: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:39:56 -0300
>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:42 +0000
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

<snip>

>Dear Dr. Friedman and all,

>I never expected this comment coming from you, a well known UFO
>investigator and prominent Scientist who I admire, asserting
>that my theory, included in the David Rudiak's list as a stupid
>explanation.

<snip>

I don't understand why these professional pilots, who had been
doing this drug interdiction mission over a period of time, had
never seen these "oilwell fires" before.....  It's rather like a
cop on a beat who's never seen the bright red fire plugs on
it.....

Did they see them the previous night?  Did they ever see them
ever again? These wells are pretty much burning waste gas all
the time, aren't they? Why are they new, now?


alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net
...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...








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                     Re: Ufology And Science - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:04:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:03:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufology And Science - Lehmberg


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:07:42 +0100
>Subject: Ufology And Science

>Last week I debated the UFO phenomenon at the Cheltenham
>Festival of Science. The festival runs for five days and is now
>in its third year. Its sponsors and partners include the British
>National Space Centre, The Royal Society and the United Kingdom
>Atomic Energy Authority. The idea is to showcase high-profile,
>interesting and contentious issues in contemporary science, such
>as nuclear power, cloning, climate change and GM crops.

<snip>

>If nothing else, it rather undermines some of the silly 'ufology
>is dead' stories that have been circulating here in the UK
>recently.


Really - that last one gracing us here at UpDates had me
convinced that there are, in _fact_, other dimensions beyond and
separate from our own... because the author of that piece seemed
to be _writing_ from one!  I wonder that some of these writers
can take a breath without blowing an insentient bubble from
their noses!  Yea and verily! <note total absence of smiley
emoticon>

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                      Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:20:22 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:06:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall


>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:26:31 -0500
>Subject: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>Ronald Reagan had at least two UFO sightings.

>One was the incident on Cessna Citation as governor of
>California as is being discussed on this list.

>The second incident was when he and Nancy were driving down the
>coast highway to a cocktail party in Hollywood. He arrived late
>and explained that the delay was because he and Nancy had
>stopped to watch the object. This story was told by the late
>comedian Steve Allen and it is also told by Lucille Ball on page
>125 of her book "Lucy in the Afternoon."

>"My God If this is the best intelligence they�ve got and we find
>nothing, what about the rest of it."

>--Hans Blix speaking about the US military claims of WMD in Iraq

Grant,

When and where was the alleged second Reagan sighting reported
by Steve Allen? What is your documentation of it? As a long-time
Steve Allen admirer, that would be an impressive source to me.

 - Dick









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   Jun > Jun 15

             Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:50 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:08:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated - Hall


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:55:25 -0500
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

>>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:01:42 -0700
>>Subject: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:39:56 -0300
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:42 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>Dear Dr. Friedman and all,

>>I never expected this comment coming from you, a well known UFO
>>investigator and prominent Scientist who I admire, asserting
>>that my theory, included in the David Rudiak's list as a stupid
>>explanation.

>I don't understand why these professional pilots, who had been
>doing this drug interdiction mission over a period of time, had
>never seen these "oilwell fires" before.....  It's rather like a
>cop on a beat who's never seen the bright red fire plugs on
>it.....

>Did they see them the previous night? Did they ever see them
>ever again? These wells are pretty much burning waste gas all
>the time, aren't they? Why are they new, now?

An excellent question(s) that cuts right to the core of the
issue. As was the previous post asking what the hell good are
the FLIR's for interdiction of drug trafficking flights if they
are so easily fooled by lights that are around all the time.

On the other hand, note that so far little or no correlation has
been found between the FLIR and the radar images. That should
give us pause. Only continued real scientific investigation, not
guesswork or surmise or arguments about personalities, may
supply some answers.


 - Dick









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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:20:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:10:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:01:42 -0700
>Subject: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated


>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:39:56 -0300
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? >

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:42 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

I have been told that the Mexican DOD will arrange for an
experiment I proposed several weeks ago: fly the aircraft over
the oil field and then radially away from it while recording the
FLIR images during a day of comparable visibility.










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   Jun > Jun 16

                     Five UFOs In Skies Above Emley Moor

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:10:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:19:11 -0400
Subject: Five UFOs In Skies Above Emley Moor


Source: The Huddersfield Daily Examiner

http://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/page.cfm?objectid=1
4335648&method=full&siteid=50060

Jun 16 2004


Caught on film - Five UFOs In The Skies Above Emley June 15

Strange flying objects have been spotted in the skies above
Emley Moor.

What appears to be five objects flying in perfect formation were
seen by Examiner readers at about 3pm yesterday.

The Red Arrows type fly-by of Emley Moor Mast is so far
unexplained.

There were no reports of airshows in the area yesterday
afternoon.

And Moldgreen reader Mark Windle, who took this photo, said: "It
looked to me as if they were objects that were burning up in the
atmosphere. There was another plane in the sky and it looked
different."

Another onlooker said that as soon as she saw the lights she
went to get her camera.

But the objects were travelling fast, and by the time she
returned with her camera they had disappeared.

"We usually have planes flying past but not in such a regular
formation," she said. "It was very strange."



Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center








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                    Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Cameron

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:47:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:21:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Cameron


>From: Richard Hall
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:20:22 +0000
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: Grant Cameron
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:26:31 -0500
>>Subject: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>Ronald Reagan had at least two UFO sightings.

>>One was the incident on Cessna Citation as governor of
>>California as is being discussed on this list.

>>The second incident was when he and Nancy were driving down the
>>coast highway to a cocktail party in Hollywood. He arrived late
>>and explained that the delay was because he and Nancy had
>>stopped to watch the object. This story was told by the late
>>comedian Steve Allen and it is also told by Lucille Ball on page
>>125 of her book "Lucy in the Afternoon."

>When and where was the alleged second Reagan sighting reported
>by Steve Allen? What is your documentation of it? As a long-time
>Steve Allen admirer, that would be an impressive source to me.


A. Hovni "Ronald Reagan's Obsession with the Alien Invasion"

http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/government_ufo_coverups/reganufo.html

According to Lucille Ball the incident occured at Bill Holden's
house. There were cocktails followed by dinner. The Reagan's
were an hour late.








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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 20:12:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:23:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:01:42 -0700
>Subject: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

<snip>

>Mexican Air Force FLIR images are Oil Well flames!

Hold on there, Alejandro, you seem a bit too certain,
considering the jury is still out.

I was brought up on the Texas gulf (of Mexico) coast, and there,
just as in the Campeche area, were oil wells (and oil
refineries) burning off gas all around us.  Even on the most
windless day or night, such burning flames are highly unstable,
flickering, flipping around, moving around constantly as their
heat interacts with the cooler atmosphere and gulf breezes,
dancing around the top of the low-pressure venting pipes.  The
gas burn-off is a low pressure  release (and, hence, results in
low orifice-speed), unlike the gas flame of a blow torch, for
example.  It, therefore, tends to be a very spatially unstable
flame, unlike the steady flame of a blow torch or the infrared
images we see in the video.

Although I do not see in infrared, it seems not unreasonable to
think that the infrared profile of such burning gas should very
much mimic the profile of the flame as seen burning in visible
wavelengths.

By contrast, aside from very slow brightening or dimming, the
infrared sources under discussion here seem really very
unflickering and stable in a way quite uncharacteristic of oil
well and refinery gas-burning, unless the apparent stability is
an artifact of the FLIR system.

Thus, unless you (or the Mexican DOD) can present us with an
infrared profile of the oil well flames of the Campeche area
burning as steadily as what we see on the video, and at the
right places in the scene, I cannot buy your explanatory
hypothesis, even while feeling this is not the 'smoking gun'
case some list people seemed to feel it to be, early-on.

Certainly Maussan has, in public declarations, excitedly
'inflated' this case far beyond its real value.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                 Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of

From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:09:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:30:25 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:35:17 -0700
>Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:37:32 -0700
>>From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>>As you will note (if you go to above link), there is an "Allies
>>of Humanity" workshop scheduled. My looking into this via:

>>http://alliesofhumanity.org

>I can only speak for myself.

>I regard any sort of "channeled information" with extreme
>prejudice, especially when it involves benevolent space
>brothers, multiple alien races etc.

>I see this as a new-age stuff, and don't waste any time on it.
>One unintended benefit is that it helps calibrate those who buy
>into it for future reference.


And, speaking for myself, I agree with you completely re:
"channeled" information. (I have an open mind if the info
appears to be potentially verifiable in some way.)

My curiosity is mostly centered on why an outfit such
as MUFON would be expending so much attention
on something like this. I mean, how are field investigators
going to be able to check this out? How is verification
possible?

I did a google search earlier and there appears to be
no signs of a debate on the internet re: the hypothesis
presented in the 'Allies of Humanity'. Yet, at least
some in MUFON take it very seriously.

Mike Jamieson








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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:26:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:40:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:01:42 -0700
>Subject: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated


>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:39:56 -0300
>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:54:42 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

<snip>

>Then, on that funny list maybe you should add this other two
>explanations actually put forth.

>I.-) Trucks or vehicles on highway 186.
>J.-) Molniyas or medium-high altitude satellites.

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jun/m01-002.shtml

Capt. Franz and List,

I only suggested sun reflections off of satellites as a
_possibility_ to be investigated and only for _some_ of the FLIR
images (not _all_) since under Hynek's methodology a "UFO" case
is not to be declared an unexplained "UFO" until after IFO
explanations have been eliminated by scioentific-technical
investigation, and that has not been done yet in this Mexican
case.

Likewise I suggested that the 52 knot (60 mph) radar targets at
the end of the incident exactly matched Yucatan Highway 186
vehicle in direction, location and velocity, but pointed out the
earliest radar targets traveling 200-400 mph obviously cannot be
thus explained, indeed may well be the main unexplained aspects
of this case since the target remained optically invisible yet
conducted moderately high- speed maneuvers. The IR targets never
conduct maneuvers like this 200-400 mph radar target did.

<snip>

>Based on that perspective where the fixed objects seem to move
>while in reality the object that is really moving is the
>airplane I repeat what I posted in my theory about the oil wells
>of Cantarell field.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m27-011.shtml

>"If you take your time you will see the fact that the lights
>are always steady if we repeat the scene and see at the very
>bottom of the FLIR screen that the AZIMUTH (Az) NEVER CHANGES
>more than TWO or FOUR degrees."
<snip>

There is more to it than just AZIMUTH -- there is ELEVATION as
well. As I pointed out in my last posting on this case, there is
a problem that the unexplained Group 2-3-4 FLIR images are up in
the sky! Not only are they above the earth's horizon (which was
at -2 degrees Elevation from the aircraft at 11,500 ft) but they
are also above the aircraft's local horizontal (at 0 degs Elev).
Oil wells cannot fly in the sky! Just look at your images for
1707. They are at +2 degs Elevation. This Elevation difference
between the oil wells just below the earth's horizon at -2 degs
and the FLIR images at +2 degs is something that James Smith
pointed out to you in his June 14 email posted on your website.

That means they are more than 4 degrees above the actual limb or
horizon line of the earth. Mirages cannot be seen more than
about 1/2 degree above the horizon. As the Condon Report states
(Bantam ed. p. 625) in italics that the Committee put in for
emphasis but which I can't show here:

"For all practical purposes, 0.5 degree can be considered as the
near-maximum angle of illumination that will allow for formation
of a mirage."

I also pointed out that even with the Group 1 FLIR images that
were at least in the right direction for the Cantarell oil wells
they still had an additional problem of some being _too low_
below the horizon -- meaning they had to be much closer than out
to sea and would have had to be in the Laguna de Terminos east
of Ciudad del Carmen. Are there any oil well fires in the
Laguna? I do not see any on your DMSP photos.

See my post of June 11:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jun/m11-022.shtml

Here is my analysis of the FLIR images dividing them up by time,
direction (azimuth) and elevation, and they do neatly divide up
into 4 groups:

Mexican FLIR Groups of Single or Multiple "Lights" or IR Sources

1. NW (295 to 305 degs True) 1645-1649, 1651 (CST), BELOW EARTH
   HORIZON

2. NW (310 degs True) 1652 to 1709, ABOVE EARTH HORIZON

3. N (350 to 335 degs) 1714 to 1718, ABOVE EARTH HORIZON

4. W (270 to 265 degs) 1722:59 to 1723:42, 1726 to 1728, ABOVE
   EARTH HORIZON



>My results regarding the C26A Flir's screen data, the
>information posted in the list and with some very
>valuable information from two friends are here:

>See pictures:

http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/dmsp3.jpg
http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/dmsp3n.gif
http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/3d_oila.jpg

>None of you provide any valuable data to detract the possibility
>of the oil wells theory as a plausible cause of the FLIR's
>unidentified images as I do.

<snip>

>Mexican Air Force FLIR images are Oil Well flames!

http://www.alcione.org/FRAUDES/FAM/FLIR_CONCLUSION.html

I have provided valuable data on ELEVATION that detracts from
and refutes the oil well possibility and the mirage idea (see
above earlier in this posting).

I now have to point out that your maps and diagrams are all
seriously mistaken and distorted in dimension. You mark out what
you term "Line Lengths = 100 Nautical Miles" but in fact by
comparison with known landmarks on your map they are actually
quite clearly varying and _unequal_ in length, and are about
90-100 naut. miles on two maps (your "DMSP Images" dmsp3.jpg and
"PICTURE SHOWING FLIR DIRECTION VECTORS") but about 100-115
naut. miles long on another map (your your "IMAGES MANIPULATED"
dmsp3n.gif graphic).

Your three oil wells you claim form the triplet FLIR image, oil
wells Akal "J," Akal "C" and Nohoch "A" are spread across 5
naut. miles on your map with the lat-long grid (showing 19-12' N
etc.) but on your other maps they are shown spread across about
14 naut. miles. How do you explain that?


Brad Sparks








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                     Re: Ufology And Science - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:50:16 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:49:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufology And Science - McGonagle


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:07:42 +0100
>Subject: Ufology And Science

<snip>

Hello Nick, List,

I almost went to this, until I realised it was =A36 admission, and
about 200 miles round-trip for a 1-hour (non) debate.

A one-hour session simply doesn't justify the expense or time
involved in travelling there. Value coefficient <0.

Were there many in attendance?

Joe








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                     Re: MIB Another Thought - Bilodeau

From: Michael Bilodeau <micbilodeau.nul-bec.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:43:10 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:54:14 -0400
Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought - Bilodeau


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:05:48 +0000
>Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:28:36 EDT
>>Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought

<snip>

>>I agree for the most part. I guess my point was that if this
>>provision in the law is passed, then we may easily see the day
>>when govt agents approach people, talk to them blah blah without
>>providing ID and perhaps without being so polite.

>And my point is that (real agents or not) if they don't show you
>ID you can boot them out of your house. You are not legally or
>morally obliged to kowtow to unidentified people at any time
>(unless you are a prisoner in certain notorious prisons).

>If such a scenario as you describe were to come about, I think
>you would see a mass exodus of agents (who are human beings, not
>automatons) who would have no part of it. Also, if the present
>administration keeps promoting outrageous and unAmerican laws,
>they will get the boot too. However, from what I know of the
>Congress that provision you cite doesn't stand a snowball's
>chance of becoming law.

<snip>

I can imagine the scene: a secret agent comes by a peaceful
citizen and, _without_identifying_himself_, tries to extract
information. It could - should? - look like this:

<grabbing the poor lad by the neck>

- Hey dude, where were you on june 24, 1947?

- Who's asking?

- Never mind, show me your wallet.

- Screw you!

<agent pulls his gun>

- Hands up! You'll have to come with me.

- Says who?

- Never mind.

Unfortunately for the government agent, this is Texas and all
the other peaceful citizens witnessing the incident are sure
(and happy) to see one of their own at gun point. They all reach
for their guns and point them at the true Unidentified Federal
Official.

<gasp> Gun cocking!

The UFO turns around to point his gun at 21 not-so-peaceful
citizens.

- Hands up, all of you! <This must be a conspiracy>

- Who says so?

- Never mind.

Maybe the ones who devised this piece of legislation are the
same who briefed Bush on torture?


=====================================================
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                 Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:09:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:56:01 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:35:17 -0700
>Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:37:32 -0700
>>From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>I can only speak for myself.

>I regard any sort of "channeled information" with extreme
>prejudice, especially when it involves benevolent space
>brothers, multiple alien races etc.

>I see this as a new-age stuff, and don't waste any time on it.
>One unintended benefit is that it helps calibrate those who buy
>into it for future reference.

What about potentially malevolent "brothers?"

See "You Don't Mess with Ashtar" at:

http://brumac.8k.com








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   Jun > Jun 16

               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:13:11 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:00:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:50 +0000
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:55:25 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

>>>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:01:42 -0700
>>>Subject: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:39:56 -0300
>>>>Subject: Re: UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames?

>>>I never expected this comment coming from you, a well known UFO
>>>investigator and prominent Scientist who I admire, asserting
>>>that my theory, included in the David Rudiak's list as a stupid
>>>explanation.

>>I don't understand why these professional pilots, who had been
>>doing this drug interdiction mission over a period of time, had
>>never seen these "oilwell fires" before.....  It's rather like a
>>cop on a beat who's never seen the bright red fire plugs on
>>it.....

>>Did they see them the previous night? Did they ever see them
>>ever again? These wells are pretty much burning waste gas all
>>the time, aren't they? Why are they new, now?

>An excellent question(s) that cuts right to the core of the
>issue. As was the previous post asking what the hell good are
>the FLIR's for interdiction of drug trafficking flights if they
>are so easily fooled by lights that are around all the time.

>On the other hand, note that so far little or no correlation has
>been found between the FLIR and the radar images. That should
>give us pause. Only continued real scientific investigation, not
>guesswork or surmise or arguments about personalities, may
>supply some answers.

Agreed! Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, probably so, yet
what about other pilots round the world with similar equipment
and missions near oil fields? Have they encountered similar
anomalies?


Best,

Greg








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                          Aliens And Pseudo-Aliens

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:30:23 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:05:02 -0400
Subject: Aliens And Pseudo-Aliens


From my blog, Posthuman Blues:

Richard Dolan  - UFOs and the National Security State - is one
of my very favorite speculators on the UFO problem. In his essay
Of Astronauts And Aliens:

http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Area+51&actio
n=page&obj_id=1233&type_id=3&cat_id=132⊂_id=0

he recounts puzzling "test screenings" of footage depicting
presumed aliens.

"Say that your job is to 'manage' this [ET/UFO] information," he
writes. "You know that certain individuals in the military are
more likely than others to encounter the reality of UFOs or non-
human beings in the course of their career. Showing such a movie
could be one method by which to screen potential candidates for
special ET-related assignments. How do they deal with the
information? Do they handle it professionally, or do they
crack?"

Makes sense to me. And since the military appears to be taking
extraterrestrials seriously, it's quite possible the mysterious
footage shown to military personnel is authentic -- thus the
justifiable concern. And why bother fabricating an autopsy (or
similar scenario) when the actual event is already committed to
film? Who will believe it if leaked?

All of which raises questions about the eponymous "alien
autopsy" footage. I'm inclined to think the AA depicts an actual
event. The problem is the alleged "alien's" very human-like
anatomy - hardly the sort expected of visitors from another
star. The autopsy alien, if real, seems to be a biologically
manufactured being, perhaps some sort of expendable drone
custom-made by the "real" aliens. If true, then maybe we have a
partial answer for the myriad distressing accounts of alien
embryo harvesting that have surfaced over the last 50 years --
 the "alien" in the infamous footage may be predominantly human,
but brought to maturation under nonhuman supervision.

Whitley Strieber hit on a creepily similar answer in his Roswell
crash-inspired novel "Majestic"; the UFO/alien oversight
committee of the book's title discovers two distinct types of
beings in the wreckage of a downed craft: a truly bizarre and
decidedly unearthly "Gray" with only superficial human
characteristics, and a modified human -- both dead. (The latter
is so human-like, in fact, that the mortician who sees it
accuses the Air Force of unethical human experimentation.)

Maybe the being in the autopsy footage is the equivalent of the
biologically tailored human depicted by Strieber. Interestingly,
when I emailed Strieber shortly after the AA's release in 1995,
he replied that he'd seen beings just like the cadaver --
 presumably alive.

Is David Jacobs close to the truth with his theory of an
impending takeover by human-alien hybrids?

I wonder.

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

New book: "After the Martian Apocalypse"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/074348293X








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                     Re: MIB Another Thought - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 03:25:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:09:20 -0400
Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought - Goldstein


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:05:48 +0000
>Subject: Re: MIB Another Thought

<snip>

>And my point is that (real agents or not) if they don't show you
>ID you can boot them out of your house. You are not legally or
>morally obliged to kowtow to unidentified people at any time
>(unless you are a prisoner in certain notorious prisons).

>If such a scenario as you describe were to come about, I think
>you would see a mass exodus of agents (who are human beings, not
>automatons) who would have no part of it. Also, if the present
>administration keeps promoting outrageous and unAmerican laws,
>they will get the boot too. However, from what I know of the
>Congress that provision you cite doesn't stand a snowball's
>chance of becoming law.

Hi Dick, et al,

There are other ways, such as undercover implants. For example,
a new person hired at your workplace who knows exactly how to
befriend and gain your trust while leading you into a seemingly
innocent scenario in which you reveal just what he wants to
know.

Or he or she could get a job in a neighborhood business or store
you frequent. It is especially good when the implant is of the
opposite sex. There are tantalizing and tantralizing techniques
that stop at the edge of entrapment.

After I returned from Vietnam I was involved with the allegedly
democratic anti-war organization Student Mobilization Commitee
To End The War in Vietnam with membership and donations from
millions of students nationwide. They liked what I had to say
and offered me to go to their main HQ, at 1029 Vermont Ave,
Wash. D.C. to handle the press, go out to schools to speak as a
Vietnam combat vet, and to serve on the executive committee,

I left in 1970 after a protracted battle between the council
members who sincerely wanted it to be a democratic organization
and no longer controlled by council members who belonged to the
Young Socialists Alliance, the youth wing of the Socialist
Workers Party, allTrotskyite commies. The quarterly planning
conferences of all the groups were plagued by misguided youth
who belonged to various communist factions. At the conferences
they wanted to pattern it after the Soviet or Chinese
revolutions. There were endless arguments between them with
hurled insults to each other such as "You Stalinist! The insult
response would be "You're a Maoist!" or "You're a Trotskyite! In
other words, do the revolution this way or it is doomed to
failure.

There were also many democratic peacenilks, such as the Quakers,
etc. Those conferences used to be absurd twenty ring circuses
between all the radical communists, etc.

When the Freedom of Information Act began it was learned that a
couple of council members of the democratic side had been FBI
undercover implants. On one hand, who could blame them when you
had a lot of radicals spouting violent revolution.

There are numerous techniques used that do not require agents to
appear at the doorways of subjects they don't know and ask funny
questions without identifying themselves. For just one example,
at the West Coast Detective Academy we were trained in all kinds
of surveillance techniques and counter surveillance methods.
There are many other ways to get the evidence without the
knowledge of the subjects.

I don't want to sound paranoid but someone you know very well
may not really be the person he or she may appear to be. If you
have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. <g>

To EBK and all Listerions,

This List is comprised of people with various political
orientations. Let's please not post any partisan politics
unless there is something directly connected to UFOs. I am sure
we don't want to offend readers and posters.

My other comment is in regard to the Mexican FLIR images. I
can't believe all the speculation and supposed identification
before there is any completed scientific investigation result. I
have no idea what those lit blobs were but many people have been
speculating answers before even the video is professionally
analyzed. I respect Bruce Maccabee and I have a lack of such for
Jim Dilettoso (sic). I believe this video should be analyzed by
a professional video analysis organization that has no ties to
ufology, the government of Mexico, and lying poseurs such as
Jaime Maussan. Royce Myers' UFO Watchdog website should be
required reading for anyone interested in UFOs.


Josh









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                      Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:41:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:13:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall


>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:47:26 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: Richard Hall
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:20:22 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>From: Grant Cameron
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:26:31 -0500
>>>Subject: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>Ronald Reagan had at least two UFO sightings.

>>>One was the incident on Cessna Citation as governor of
>>>California as is being discussed on this list.

>>>The second incident was when he and Nancy were driving down the
>>>coast highway to a cocktail party in Hollywood. He arrived late
>>>and explained that the delay was because he and Nancy had
>>>stopped to watch the object. This story was told by the late
>>>comedian Steve Allen and it is also told by Lucille Ball on page
>>>125 of her book "Lucy in the Afternoon."

>>When and where was the alleged second Reagan sighting reported
>>by Steve Allen? What is your documentation of it? As a long-time
>>Steve Allen admirer, that would be an impressive source to me.

>A. Hovni "Ronald Reagan's Obsession with the Alien Invasion"

>http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/government_ufo_coverups/reganufo.html

>According to Lucille Ball the incident occured at Bill Holden's
>house. There were cocktails followed by dinner. The Reagan's
>were an hour late.

And so, once again, gossip and rumor becomes documented fact? It
may be so (I happen to know that Steve Allen had some interest
in UFOs), but you'll have to do better than an article by "A.
Hovni" in that of-course-totally-reliable and highly reputable
rag UFO Universe.

Even in the article it is reported as "unconfirmed" and based on
a radio broadcast someone says they heard without being able to
provide a specific date.

Gee, by those standards we can "prove" just about any crazy
thing that suits our fancy.


 - Dick










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                 Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:52:53 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:17:23 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of


>From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:09:06 -0700
>Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of Humanity'

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:35:17 -0700
>>Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:37:32 -0700
>>>From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>>>As you will note (if you go to above link), there is an "Allies
>>>of Humanity" workshop scheduled. My looking into this via:

>>>http://alliesofhumanity.org

>>I regard any sort of "channeled information" with extreme
>>prejudice, especially when it involves benevolent space
>>brothers, multiple alien races etc.

>>I see this as a new-age stuff, and don't waste any time on it.
>>One unintended benefit is that it helps calibrate those who buy
>>into it for future reference.

>And, speaking for myself, I agree with you completely re:
>"channeled" information. (I have an open mind if the info
>appears to be potentially verifiable in some way.)

>My curiosity is mostly centered on why an outfit such
>as MUFON would be expending so much attention
>on something like this. I mean, how are field investigators
>going to be able to check this out? How is verification
>possible?

>I did a Google search earlier and there appears to be
>no signs of a debate on the internet re: the hypothesis
>presented in the 'Allies of Humanity'. Yet, at least
>some in MUFON take it very seriously.


Regrettably, MUFON has gone New Age increasingly in recent
years.

Some of you may recall my (forced) resignation from MUFON a
couple of years ago when I criticized their line-up of speakers
at the Southern California MUFON UFO symposium. There were some
pretty far-out speakers listed.

MUFON headquarters (John Schuessler) censored me and left me no
choice but to resign as a regular columnist.

I was told that the speaker choices were locally made and
reflected local opinions, attitudes, beliefs, whatever. I
replied that it reflected very badly on national MUFON, which
didn't seem to concern them at all. So we went our separate
ways.


 - Dick








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                    Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:40:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:10:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Lehmberg


>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:47:26 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: Richard Hall
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:20:22 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>From: Grant Cameron
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:26:31 -0500
>>>Subject: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>Ronald Reagan had at least two UFO sightings.

>>>One was the incident on Cessna Citation as governor of
>>>California as is being discussed on this list.

>>>The second incident was when he and Nancy were driving down the
>>>coast highway to a cocktail party in Hollywood. He arrived late
>>>and explained that the delay was because he and Nancy had
>>>stopped to watch the object. This story was told by the late
>>>comedian Steve Allen and it is also told by Lucille Ball on page
>>>125 of her book "Lucy in the Afternoon."
>
>>When and where was the alleged second Reagan sighting reported
>>by Steve Allen? What is your documentation of it? As a long-time
>>Steve Allen admirer, that would be an impressive source to me.

>A. Hovni "Ronald Reagan's Obsession with the Alien Invasion"

>http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/government_ufo_coverups/reganufo.html

>According to Lucille Ball the incident occured at Bill Holden's
>house. There were cocktails followed by dinner. The Reagan's
>were an hour late.

Reagan apologists better pump the myth up even if it's untrue.
Considering the facts of the record, the deregulations, the glad
supports of horrible rightist dictatorships, the moral judgments
against gays (another form of widely tolerated genocide home and
abroad), the creations of more rabid Islam, aggregate corporate
whorishness, and personal hatred of the poor (...if a simple
moviestar with a good voice, strong chin, and winning
personality could make it... so could they!), his contributions
to a ufological reality are the only substantive contributions
he ever made.

Hey! Ronnie deregulated the tire industry (et al) and I had two
low-mileage Firestone "Tigerpaws" blow out on me ...at once...
going out the back gate of Fort Campbell Kentucky. For my money,
Reagan tried to _kill_ me so his buddies could keep another back
door squeeze!

Reagan had _better_ seen a few UFOs... or he should have died in
prison. Oh, and Maggie Thatcher bites the big-bag, too, but no
UFO lore from her. Pity...

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                     Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:58:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:15:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Oberg


>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:47:26 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: Richard Hall
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:20:22 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>From: Grant Cameron
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:26:31 -0500
>>>Subject: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>When and where was the alleged second Reagan sighting reported
>>by Steve Allen? What is your documentation of it? As a long-time
>>Steve Allen admirer, that would be an impressive source to me.

>A. Hovni "Ronald Reagan's Obsession with the Alien Invasion"

We all realize, I hope, that A. HOVNI is a pseudonym for a well
known American UFO writer/speaker of Chilean origin, right? His
first name does start with 'A' and his last name does start with
'H', and he does write about OVNIs.


Jim Oberg







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                            Ray Fowler's New Book

From: Raymond Fowler <eveleth.nul>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:11:57 -0230
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:42:16 -0400
Subject: Ray Fowler's New Book


Just published.....

SynchroFile: Amazing Personal Encounters With Synchronicity And
Other Amazing Phenomena
by
Raymond E.Fowler

Personaly and family documented experiences of ultra-amzing
coincidences, time distortions, precognition, UFOs,
poltergeists, Near Death Experiences and After Death
Communication are shared by the author.

Order from local or on-line bookstores such as amazon.com

Available autographed and postpaid from author for $25

Send check or money order to:

Ray Fowler
249 Maguire Road
Kennebunk, ME 04043
USA

Add $6.00 for Canada








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                   Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:34:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:59:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Stevenson


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:40:00 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

<snip>

>Reagan had _better_ seen a few UFOs... or he should have died in
>prison. Oh, and Maggie Thatcher bites the big-bag, too, but no
>UFO lore from her. Pity...


Hi Alfred and Listers

As President Reagan spent most his life under bright lights this
could account for the UFO sightings he had which were probably
sub-conscious recurrent hallucinations of these or his diet was
short in iodine.

My cheque is in the post.

col

" Keep a straight line in life but don't get run over by the Trains"
- Geofrey Stevenson, run over late in life.








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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:05:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:50 +0000
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

<snip>

>On the other hand, note that so far little or no correlation has
>been found between the FLIR and the radar images. That should
>give us pause. Only continued real scientific investigation, not
>guesswork or surmise or arguments about personalities, may
>supply some answers.


To all,

I inform you of a study, just completed, by French former head of
GEPAN, Claude Poher, in favour of the oil well flames.

He intends to publish it soon in French, at the beginning of August.

He has given me a copy privetely, and I must say that it looks
impresive, although I am not competent enough to judge it.

I hope he will also make it available in English.

One argument is that the FLIR was not well calibrated for the
elevation. He could measure that thanks to images of the rising
Moon at the end of the FLIR video. Also, he calculates that the
FLIR images had to be those of distant objects.

As for the radar returns, the first ones would be from a plane
getting away and accelerating, and the ones at the end could be
from a vehicle on the road, as Brad Sparks has already
suggested.

Let's hope that the test flight by the Mexican Air Force will
clarify all this. For my part, I will also wait for the
conclusion of Bruce Maccabee.


Gildas Bourdais








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                     Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:29:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:06:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Miller


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:40:00 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

<snip>

>Reagan had _better_ seen a few UFOs... or he should have died in
>prison. Oh, and Maggie Thatcher bites the big-bag, too, but no
>UFO lore from her. Pity...


Alfred

Gee Alfred, we did this on SDI. Were you asleep? We did get one
little tidbit from Thatcher. "You can't tell the people" was
what she reportedly said to Georgina Bruni in response to a
question from her. Hence the title of the book on Rhendlesham.


Stuart Miller








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                           Neat Mars Rover Movies

From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:27:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:08:48 -0400
Subject: Neat Mars Rover Movies


Might be a bit off topic but Mike Woods would like these...

http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/video/movies/spirit/ spirit_90Days90Seconds.m
pg

http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/video/movies/opportunity/ opp_90Days90Seconds
.mpg


Trevor









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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:15:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:11:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 20:12:57 -0400
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:01:42 -0700
>>Subject: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

><snip>

>>Mexican Air Force FLIR images are Oil Well flames!

>Hold on there, Alejandro, you seem a bit too certain,
>considering the jury is still out.

>I was brought up on the Texas gulf (of Mexico) coast, and there,
>just as in the Campeche area, were oil wells (and oil
>refineries) burning off gas all around us.  Even on the most
>windless day or night, such burning flames are highly unstable,
>flickering, flipping around, moving around constantly as their
>heat interacts with the cooler atmosphere and gulf breezes,
>dancing around the top of the low-pressure venting pipes.  The
>gas burn-off is a low pressure  release (and, hence, results in
>low orifice-speed), unlike the gas flame of a blow torch, for
>example.  It, therefore, tends to be a very spatially unstable
>flame, unlike the steady flame of a blow torch or the infrared
>images we see in the video.

>Although I do not see in infrared, it seems not unreasonable to
>think that the infrared profile of such burning gas should very
>much mimic the profile of the flame as seen burning in visible
>wavelengths.

>By contrast, aside from very slow brightening or dimming, the
>infrared sources under discussion here seem really very
>unflickering and stable in a way quite uncharacteristic of oil
>well and refinery gas-burning, unless the apparent stability is
>an artifact of the FLIR system.

>Thus, unless you (or the Mexican DOD) can present us with an
>infrared profile of the oil well flames of the Campeche area
>burning as steadily as what we see on the video, and at the
>right places in the scene, I cannot buy your explanatory
>hypothesis, even while feeling this is not the 'smoking gun'
>case some list people seemed to feel it to be, early-on.

>Certainly Maussan has, in public declarations, excitedly
>'inflated' this case far beyond its real value.


Alejandro, Ray, list,

Let us not forget that, according to the testimony of the crew,
at no time were any of these objects ever visible to the naked
eye.

I could be wrong (Who, Me?) but it seems to me that oil well
flames would be quite visible to the unaided observer. Perhaps
if the MDOD perform the test flight that Bruce Maccabee
mentioned, this oil well business can be confirmed or
contradicted


Terry Groff








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                    Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:47:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:54:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Speiser


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:58:23 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:47:26 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>From: Richard Hall
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:20:22 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>>From: Grant Cameron
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:26:31 -0500
>>>>Subject: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>When and where was the alleged second Reagan sighting reported
>>>by Steve Allen? What is your documentation of it? As a long-time
>>>Steve Allen admirer, that would be an impressive source to me.

>>A. Hovni "Ronald Reagan's Obsession with the Alien Invasion"

>We all realize, I hope, that A. HOVNI is a pseudonym for a well
>known American UFO writer/speaker of Chilean origin, right? His
>first name does start with 'A' and his last name does start with
>'H', and he does write about OVNIs.

Ha! My ol' buddy Antonio! I didn't know that. I _did_ see the
OVNI in the name and figured it was a pseudonym.  Thanks Jim!

Is Antonio a member here?


==JJS==








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                      Re: Can I Get A Witness? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:43:02 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:57:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Can I Get A Witness? - Boone


Last year I wrote about several UFO encounters I had while
working at a newspaper. Good ol' Errol Bruce-Knapp, Jeff Rense,
Hilly Rose and UFO Magazine had the courage to spotlight my
story. It involved the giant boomerang shaped UFOs people had
been reporting for decades.

Well, with all UFO stories getting more witnesses is like
pulling teeth sometimes. So I kept at it and surprisingly I
actually was able to contact the primary witness to my account!

I'm coaxing her to come forward and more surprising she told me
far more about that night than I had previously known! Not only
that but she had another witness, a law enforcement officer who
was there with her and they'd observed the object for over an
hour! I hadn't known this until a few days ago. What's even
better is she did take pictures but the pics are property of the
newspaper and she's trying to track them down as they may be
amongst umpteen thousands of miles of photo negatives. ( in
those days we used film not digital ).

She's thinking it over about coming forward on the air about it
and with fingers crossed she will.

In addition I also received a communique from a former colleague
who gave me some data on exactly what the boomerangs are.

Keep fingers crossed it looks to be a huge revelation with a lot
of you all being able to finally sit back and say those immortal
words:

"See! I told you so!"


Best,

Greg








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               Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - 06-22-04

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:49:53 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:00:45 -0400
Subject: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - 06-22-04


Stan Friedman wrote:

For those amongst the Listers who are either night people or
interested in UFOs or interested in SETI, I would like to inform
you and all your friends and enemies that I have just been
notified by the program producer that Astronomer Dr. Seth
Shostak of the SETI Institute has accepted my challenge and will
be discussing UFOs and SETI with me starting at 11PM Pacific
Time on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 on the Coast to Coast radio
program with George Noory.

We will be on for 3 hours... ending at 6AM Atlantic Time. It
should be interesting as we each gave three very different
lectures on the QE 2 this past December.

Seth's latest book is "Cosmic Company: The Search for Life in
the Universe" with Alex Barnett, Cambridge University Press,
2003.

A summary of my views about SETI can be found on my website
http://www.stanfriedman.com .


Stan Friedman








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                       Re: Ufology And Science - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:47:24 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:19:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufology And Science - Pope


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:50:16 +0100
>Subject: Re: Ufology And Science

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:07:42 +0100
>>Subject: Ufology And Science

><snip>

>Hello Nick, List,

>I almost went to this, until I realised it was =A36 admission, and
>about 200 miles round-trip for a 1-hour (non) debate.

>A one-hour session simply doesn't justify the expense or time
>involved in travelling there. Value coefficient <0.

>Were there many in attendance?

I take your point. A seasoned ufologist would have heard little
new material, so unless you'd made a day of it and attended
other sessions, it would have involved disproportionate cost and
effort to come for the one discussion. I never anticipated that
this was an event for ufologists and neither, I suspect, did the
organisers. Rather, it was an opportunity to discuss ufology
with people unlikely ever to attend a UFO conference. Given that
a major criticism of UFO conferences is that they preach to the
converted, I welcomed the opportunity to discuss UFOs at a
prestigious science festival, thereby promoting ufology to a new
audience.

I estimate that around 150 people attended the session.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                      Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:24:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:21:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Pope


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:40:00 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

<snip>

>Reagan had _better_ seen a few UFOs... or he should have died in
>prison. Oh, and Maggie Thatcher bites the big-bag, too, but no
>UFO lore from her. Pity...

The best-known UFO story involving Margaret Thatcher concerns a
conversation she had with Georginar Bruni on May 21 1997.
Margaret Thatcher was Guest of Honour at a dinner being held in
aid of The Fund for Refugees in Slovenia. Georgina engaged her
in a conversation about UFOs and Margaret Thatcher said:

"You must get your facts right. You can't tell the people."

When pressed, she repeated herself, but refused to elaborate or
be drawn further on the subject.

Georgina used the second part of this quote as the title for her
book on the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident, and tells the story
of her conversation with Margaret Thatcher in some detail, on
pages 1 - 4.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                      Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <ahebert.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:36:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:26:05 -0400
Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover - Hebert


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 03:13:50 +0100
>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

>>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:39:59 -0500
>>Subject: Re: FLIR Pro From Dover

<snip>

>Okay, I can accept that from your/Maussan's/Garrido's point of
>view it was a magnanimous offer. I can also understand why
>Navarro rejected the offer. Already there have been issues aired
>on-list about the completeness or otherwise of the material
>provided by Maussan/Garrido. I am not saying that there was any
>intended ommission (nor, at this stage, am I saying that there
>was not), but it does create doubts, especially in the knowledge
>that Maussan is a television presenter who's popularity (and
>hence the TV company's advertising revenue) would be enhanced if
>the outcome of the investigation concludes a paranormal cause.
>It is obvious that concerns other than the simple truth could
>influence the investigation. If Navarro could obtain the data
>directly from the source, he would only need to assure himself
>that the source was not holding anything back.

<snip>

This is to anyone who may know the answers,

I was just wondering... exactly how many people, in the public,
have had access and viewed the original un-edited version of
this footage? How many scientists (with credentials) other than
Dr. Maccabee have reviewed the original, unedited footage?

Who owns the copyrights to the original footage? Does the
Mexican government claim copyrights? What are Mexico's laws
about copyrights in this context?

Also, will the entire footage ever become available to the
general public?


Thank you.

Sincerely,

A.Hebert








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                       Re: Ufology And Science - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:42:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:41:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufology And Science - White


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:50:16 +0100
>Subject: Re: Ufology And Science

<snip>

>A one-hour session simply doesn't justify the expense or time
>involved in travelling there. Value coefficient <0.

If some big-name debaters agreed, it might be interesting to
organize a year-long "mother of all debates" on the UFO issue
by way of a message board.  The idea would be that only the
officially selected parties could post their dialogue, but the
public could read it, and at the end of the year, vote on who
won.

For practicality's sake, I would use software which can limit
each posting to a number of characters, say 2.5 K to keep it
roughly one printed page per posting.


Eleanor White






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                      Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:06:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:44:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:58:23 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:47:26 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>From: Richard Hall
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:20:22 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>>From: Grant Cameron
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:26:31 -0500
>>>>Subject: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>>When and where was the alleged second Reagan sighting reported
>>>by Steve Allen? What is your documentation of it? As a long-time
>>>Steve Allen admirer, that would be an impressive source to me.

>>A. Hovni "Ronald Reagan's Obsession with the Alien Invasion"

>We all realize, I hope, that A. HOVNI is a pseudonym for a well
>known American UFO writer/speaker of Chilean origin, right? His
>first name does start with 'A' and his last name does start with
>'H', and he does write about OVNIs.


Well, Jim, I immediately spotted the "OVNI" and was suspicious
of that, but was not sure who it was. So it's Antonio Huneeus,
eh? No doubt ashamed of writing for such a... notorious...
publication.

Antonio is a nice guy and a reputable reporter, but should know
better. And Grant Cameron should know better than to traffic in
unconfirmed rumors instead of sticking to carefully documented
facts.

 - Dick










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                        Eisenhower And Aliens Again?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:55:08 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:20:19 -0400
Subject: Eisenhower And Aliens Again?


Pardon if this story was already posted on this List.
There's been some erratic emails and missed posts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A53203-2004F
eb18&notFound=true

Regarding a researcher and his theory about Ike and aliens.


Best,

Greg








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                   Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies

From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g.nul-online.de>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:21:35 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:22:15 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:09:01 -0400
>Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:35:17 -0700
>>Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>>>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:37:32 -0700
>>>From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of Humanity'

>>I can only speak for myself.

>>I regard any sort of "channeled information" with extreme
>>prejudice, especially when it involves benevolent space
>>brothers, multiple alien races etc.

>>I see this as a new-age stuff, and don't waste any time on it.
>>One unintended benefit is that it helps calibrate those who buy
>>into it for future reference.

>What about potentially malevolent "brothers?"

>See "You Don't Mess with Ashtar" at:

>http://brumac.8k.com

See also some 'channelling stuff' the Navy was after, 1954:

It resulted into a 'seance' in a CIA building with CIA agents
seeing a UFO (according to Jacobs' 'The UFO Controversy in
America' and Robert Friend, Blue Book Chief of that time, who
was interviewed by Jacobs in 1974)

FOIA documents

http://www.ufodb.net/medium.txt


Extract from Jacobs' 'The UFO Controversy in America'

http://www.ufodb.net/medium-j.txt

Hyneks personal notes about this incident

http://www.presidentialufo.com/cia_memo.htm


With regards to the List, I would love to have some
clarification of this case that is quite unknown to most ufo
publications.

Is there anybody who can confirm the story or has additional
info on it?


Thank you.


Daniel G.

--
Just the Cases - UFO sightings database
http://www.ufodb.net








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                     Re: Ray Fowler's New Book - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:58:17 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:25:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Ray Fowler's New Book - Tonnies


>From: Raymond Fowler <eveleth.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:11:57 -0230
>Subject: Ray Fowler's New Book

>Just published.....

>SynchroFile: Amazing Personal Encounters With
>Synchronicity And
>Other Amazing Phenomena
>by
>Raymond E.Fowler

>Personaly and family documented experiences of ultra-amzing
>coincidences, time distortions, precognition, UFOs,
>poltergeists, Near Death Experiences and After Death

I'm hooked. ;-)

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

New book: "After the Martian Apocalypse"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/074348293X








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                    Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:45:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:27:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Lehmberg


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:34:44 +0100
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:40:00 -0500

><snip>

>>Reagan had _better_ seen a few UFOs... or he should have died in
>>prison. Oh, and Maggie Thatcher bites the big-bag, too, but no
>>UFO lore from her. Pity...

>As President Reagan spent most his life under bright lights this
>could account for the UFO sightings he had which were probably
>sub-conscious recurrent hallucinations of these or his diet was
>short in iodine.

>My cheque is in the post.

Maggie has lore! Maggie has lore! Ed Gehrman wrote and reminded
me she told Ms. Bruni that, "...you can't tell the people"!
Thanks and a tip of the hat... [g]. As to Reagan, he might have
had heart and he might have had charisma, but he didn't have
soul and he didn't have conscience.


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                           Filers Files #26 - 2004

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:11:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:51:35 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #26 - 2004


Filers Files #26 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
Vice President of Skywatch International

June 17, 2004
Webmaster: Chuck Warren

Threat from Taurid Meteors

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. These Files make the assumption that
extraterrestrial intelligent life exists. Taurid Meteor Stream
Approaching, Mars The Tubes, Upstate New York - Daylight
Objects, New Jersey Oval and Lights, Pennsylvania Light Flies
Formation With Plane, West Virginia UFO Seen Only With Sun
Glasses, North Carolina Disc, Florida Falling Red Balls and a
Flying Triangle, New Mexico Multi-Colored Craft, Arizona Bright
Moving Lights, California Cylinders and Light, Canada Disk and
Globes, Portugal UFO Photographed, Italy Numerous UFO Reports,
Slovak - Crop Circles Exhibit at National Museum, and New
Zealand Meteorite.

Taurid Meteor Stream Approaching

I have received dozens of e-mails concerning the possible threat
of a meteor impact on Earth. Someone impersonating Dr. Gartrell
a scientist from Australia has made a series of dire impact
predictions on the Internet for later this month. Dr. Gartrell
denies he made the predictions and said. "There is always a
finite possibility of the impact of space debris and I am
certainly in favor of the work being done on early-warning
systems, but I have no knowledge whatsoever of any ... imminent
threat. I have never met any of the people who are making such
claims on the Internet."

Comet over Japan May 9, 2004

I thought it would be interesting to determine if there is any
realistic threat to Earth? NASA reports that the closest comet
approach will be on June 26, 2004, by Comet 1998 SF36, at .0137
or about five times the distance of earth to moon (e=3Dm). One of
the facts known about comets is that they tend to divide or
fragment and some debris might hit the Earth.

David Booth who wrote the controversial book 'Code Red: The
Coming Destruction of America, 2004' predicts, "A large dark
planetary object will come up from beneath the Earth and collide
with the South Pole. There will be huge explosions on the West
Coast of US."

Based on the available evidence it is my opinion this will not
happen. However, the facts are according to the famous
astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle that the Earth has been hit regularly
by large meters. There were mass extinctions 94.5 million years
ago, a mass extinction of dinosaurs 65 million years ago, and
another extinction of life 36.9 million years ago. Studies
indicated that impact craters on the Earth and on the Moon show
sustained and violent bombardments taking place about every 30
million years. The sun and its solar system move through the far
edges of the Milky Way periodically in a circular pattern. The
Milky Way contains millions of comet fragments or meteors that
could destroy life on Earth at almost any time.

Twice each year Earth passes through the Taurid meteor stream
from the 24 June to 6 July and again from 3 to 15 November that
contains billions of meteoroids and fragmented space debris. The
meteors radiate from an Epsilon Tauri and Taurus. Sir Fred Hoyle
and Chandra Wickramasinghe claim there were impacts around
10,000 BC causing the ice Age to end, others at 7000 BC, 5000
BC, 4000 BC, 2500 BC, 1000 BC and 500 AD. Archeological
excavations indicate that from 2500 B.C. to 2000 B.C. formerly
well-established civilizations collapsed or disintegrated under
bombardment from Taurid meteors. These disasters occurred in the
Aegean, Anatolia, The Near and Middle East, Egypt, North Africa
and Asia. Egyptian records indicate a climatological upheaval
and abrupt desertification of previously lush agricultural
lands. During this period many of the pyramids were built and
their shape and size would make great bombardment shelters to
protect the pharaohs. The red planet Mars passes through the sky
near Taurus and it is interesting =D8=F8 to note that the Arabian
word for Cairo means Mars. The Great Sphinx in Cairo and the so
called Bent and Red Pyramids of Dashur were painted red because
of their association with the Mars.

We are entering a particularly dangerous period as waves of
galactic material swamp the entire solar system. We are
dangerously close to the upper limit of the cycle of about 39
million years when severe impacts occur. The sun is now
penetrating the remains of a disintegrating giant molecular
cloud that is a star-forming region of the Milky Way.
Essentially we are entering or within a part of the galaxy that
indicates that a bombardment episode is imminent and that the
impact rate may be exceptionally high. We are presently at the
inner edge of the Orion spiral arm where there are likely to be
more meteoroids and comets. Astronomers claim a disintegrating
comet exploded in the air above Tunguska, Russia on June 30,
1908, flattening 2,000 square miles of forest. On June 22 to 26,
1975, our Moon was splattered with a sustained barrage of ton
sized boulders. The facts are there is a potential danger as we
ride on spaceship Earth and many UFO reports during late June
and July may turn out to be space debris. Although a major =D8=F8
impact is very unlikely, we can count on running into the Taurid
meteor stream later this month.

NASA states, "There are no known Near Earth Object's (NEO) on a
collision course with the Earth. There is a possibility that an
as yet undiscovered large NEO may hit the Earth, but the
probability of this happening over the next 100 years is
extremely small." NEOs are small objects=E2=80=94asteroids and certain
comets=E2=80=94that orbit in the solar system relatively close to
Earth and could one day collide with Earth. The NASA declaration
makes me extremely nervous because dark fragments could be
headed this way. In March, NASA activated the Sentry, a new
system to monitor NEOs and assess their threat to Earth. Our
atmosphere will protect us from most space debris, but impacts
are likely to be heard and smaller meteorites will likely get
through.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/neofact.html

This summer the world's top scientists will meet to plan
defenses against an asteroid bombardment that could wipe out a
city or disrupt a country's infrastructure. The scientists will
plan ways to divert and discover ways to combat collisions from
space.

Last December, Britain's Royal Astronomical Society hosted an
international meeting of astronomers on the asteroid impact
threat. In January, the world's astronomers petitioned
Australia's government to build a special asteroid-detecting
telescope. In March, NASA activated a "Sentry," a new system to
monitor near-Earth objects (NEOs). Brian G. Marsden, with the
Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge,
Massachusetts claims, "We've had a couple of close shaves during
the past few months," An asteroid caused public jitters when
discovered March 12. Named 2002 EM7, it came from the direction
of the sun=E2=80=94an astronomical blind spot where objects are hidden
in the sun's glare. Astronomers didn't detect 2002 EM7 until
four days after it came within 288,000 miles of Earth, which
they regard as a close encounter. In September, NASA will
conduct a "Workshop on Scientific Requirements for Mitigation of
Hazardous Comets and Asteroids,"

The point is that there are dangerous asteroids, meteoroids, and
comet fragments heading toward Earth. It will be interesting to
watch the skies, but most of the debris passes by during the
daylight. Only infrared cameras are likely to pick up the
fireworks. Often as the meteors enter our atmosphere an
explosion can be heard and occasionally large meteors can be
caught on camera.

Mars - The Tubes

Professor David Southwood, European Space Agency Director of
Science states, "One of the main targets of the Mars Express
mission is to discover the presence of water in one of its
chemical states. Through the initial mapping of the South polar
cap on 18 January, OMEGA, the combined camera and infrared
spectrometer, has already revealed the presence of water ice and
carbon dioxide ice."

Scientists claim where there is water there is life and based on
this assumption and my experience as a photo interpreter, I
believe there are strong indications of intelligent life has
existed on Mars.

htp://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04/maps/M0001674.gif shows
tubes near a large crater where water leakage is apparent. The
letters "RID" are also evident just below the tube indicating
some kind of artificial structures on Mars and intelligence.

In the center of the image are glassy semi-transparent linear
features with a cylindrical shape that are tube or tunnel like.
These diameters range from 140 yards and greater with somewhat
regular supporting arch structure. The tubes are mostly buried
but occasionally are uncovered. (25.63 N 37.5W)

At numerous places on Mars these strange tube like structures
may indicate a transfer system for large amounts of water from
the polar caps, or other sources of water such as found in
craters. We have spotted water collection systems within the
craters. This tunnel system would also likely contain an
underground railroad, boats, or a method for moving bulk cargo.
Each spring millions of gallons of water melt at the polar caps
and may be transported through the tubes to underground
municipalities. The tubes could also be used to launch Martians
off the planet since rockets are a wasteful method of going in
to space. Rockets expend much of their energy in lifting
themselves and their fuel rather than lifting cargo.
Electromagnetic craft using the tubes could reach high speeds
underground and catapult into space. This approach is well
suited to Mars because its gravity is less than half of the
earth's. An ideal site for gradual acceleration is on a steady
upward slope. An electromagnetic train could reach speeds of
thousands of miles an hour underground and gradually climb some
high point and shoot out into space, accelerate and continue on
to Earth.

Even today, UFO's are photographed regularly by the NASA Mar's
Rovers indicating unidentified space craft are being operated
over Mars. The Russian Phobos II satellite using infrared
technology discovered large sources of Mars underground heat
indicating a city the size of San Francisco. Many of the
monuments on Mars may have been built as a warning to us that
the inhabitants were aware of impending disaster and then built
exceptionally large structures to the provide both a warning and
a record of their civilization.

Upstate New York - Daylight Objects

A house wife writes that she noticed people were saying that
they were taking pictures of the clouds and unseen strange
objects were appearing in their photos. She decided to do some
experimenting and went out with her camera three days ago, and
started to take random pictures of the sky. She says, "On June
7, 2004, when I got in to look at my photos I couldn't believe
what I was seeing. Not only did one 'object' appear, but
sometimes two were in the photos. Everyday I have been taking
photos, and everyday I am seeing what I call "silver orbs" and
"flat silver objects." These things are not there when I take
the photos but show up on the photographs. I have seen so many
other pictures just like mine now, that there is no denying that
there are allot of these up there. Thanks to Brian Vike
http://www.hbccufo.com/

New Jersey Oval and Lights

FORT LEE -- Right after the five military jets flew by going
southwest at 4 PM, an oval shaped, black, heavy-like object was
observed heading northwest on May 31, 2004. The jets made a huge
sound and the witness saw a strangely tilted object that might
have been a big balloon or an advertising aircraft. However,
this craft was not floating; it was flying and had a heavy metal
feeling. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

MANVILLE The witness noticed a moving light in the sky that
brightened and dimmed and occasionally darted around on June 3,
2004, at 11:15 PM. The witness states, "From my porch, I saw a
light that seemed to move slightly and change in brightness and
drifted to the west. Then it darted very quickly to the side,
then back. As the hour passed it seemed to drift northwest, the
light got smaller, but still varied in brightness. Around 12:12
AM, it finally faded out of sight still moving west. Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director http://www.ufocenter.com/

Pennsylvania Light Flies Formation With Plane

COLLINGDALE The observer was lying in bed watching the planes in
the sky and a large bright white light appeared a short distance
behind an airplane on June 2, 2004. There are three planes that
have the same route fairly close together and he always watches
them pass. The first was at 11:11 PM, the second at two minutes
later, and the third at 11:20 PM. The observer states, "I was
watching this last plane coming towards me and all of a sudden a
very bright circular looking light appeared not far behind the
plane." This was not another plane, because it was too close and
had just one very bright white light. It flew formation with
plane for a few seconds and then it stopped for a second, dimmed
a notch, then a second later it dimmed another notch, a second
after that it just went out." Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

West Virginia UFO Seen With Sun Glasses

BECKLEY On June 3, 2004, the witness was traveling north on I-
77on an overcast day when he spotted a UFO through the lens of
his sunglasses at 12:23 PM, that appeared as a bright star.
Directly in front of the car was a bright round object at 45
degrees off the horizon moving west about the speed of a small
prop plane. The sunglasses are probably polarized. He reports,
"I looked over the glasses to try to see a contrail, but the
object disappeared, but when I looked through the glasses, I
could see the bright object again." I looked over my glasses for
the second time and could see only sky. With the sun behind me I
could see the object through my glasses! Is it cloaking, ET or
terrestrial? As far as I know, I am the only one to see it."
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director http://www.ufocenter.com/

North Carolina Disc

MOSHEIM - Mr. Mark W. Repass says, "At first I thought I was
seeing a large meteorite traveling horizontally across the night
sky on June 2, 2004, at 11:15 PM. But then I noticed there was
no trail and it was symmetrical and solid. It was traveling
south at a high rate of speed like the military jets do when
they fly the treetops around here, but it was dark. There was
only one light and no flashing lights the way aircraft have.
=46rom my perspective it was about twenty percent the size of the
moon and gained altitude and flew around the tip of the mountain
to the south the way a military jet would, then made a left turn
and disappeared. It was very fast and very smooth. It had no
flashing lights and made no sound and was too fast for a
helicopter." Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

Florida Falling Red Balls and a Flying Triangle

WEST PALM BEACH -- On June 2, at 11:55 PM, the witness walked
outside and noticed a bright object to the southwest that was
getting really bright and then dim to the point where he
couldn't see it. He grabbed his binoculars and saw six or seven
small red balls of light shooting downward out of this larger
light. It was very much like a UFO documentary. Balls of light
were dropping and shooting out of this object. The witness
called several news stations, but nothing had been reported.
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director

MILTON -- Two witnesses were sitting on their front porch
talking at 10:40 PM, on June 5, 2004, and observed two shooting
stars and then another star moving slowly in sky. The neighbor
noticed two more lights behind it and these formed a flying
triangle. There were no clouds this night and the object was
traveling slowly east and remained in the triangle position for
five minutes, then each light blinked off one after another. No
aircraft was noted in the area, and it was moving ever so slow.
Thanks to

Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research http://www.ufocenter.com/

Ohio - UFOs Videotaped

Fostoria - George Ritter continues to video tape UFOs over the
nearby farmer's fields. A MUFON investigation team visited
George last Sunday. [] Above is frame one of the UFO videotape.
Frame 2 is below taken 1/180 of a second later. The UFO has
moved into the trees.

A 20,000 year old French cave drawing by homo sapiens recorded
their life styles and conquests by painting amazingly accurate
pictures of animals such as bison, horses, antelopes, and
mammoths--that were almost universally found in the area. But in
addition there were unknown symbols known as Tectiforms, that
are painted in such a way as to indicate they are flying in the
sky above the other figures.


Illinois Circular Object

Chicago A small white circular object hovered in the sky on June
1, 2004, at 1:30 PM above the city. The witness says, "I was
sitting on my back porch and noticed an object floating by in
the sky, that moved slowly and then hovered for about two
minutes. It was round and white, and it was small in size. It
stood still and then started moving upwards and disappeared."
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director http://www.hbccufo.com/


New Mexico Multi-Colored Craft

MANZANO MOUNTAINS -- The witness reports we have a farm east of
the mountains and see unusual aircraft that show multiple colors
and fly at the altitude the military generally uses. There are
many more colors than normal. We milk the cows at an odd hour in
the evening due to my boys playing little league and see these
craft several times an hour between 9 PM and 11 PM. We are on a
major flight path for the Albuquerque and Kirtland Air Force
Base. We have been having a number of sonic booms here as of
late where we can't see the plane. That speaks to me of two
possibilities. Either they are moving so fast we won't be able
to see them, or they are camouflaged to match our blue sky, so
it wouldn't surprise me if these craft were military in nature.
Thanks to Brian Vike, Director http://www.hbccufo.com/

Arizona Bright Moving Lights

CHANDLER -- Zeke Jimenez, 17 years old, was outside observing
the Moon on June 3, 2004, with his brand new telescope and saw
two stars in the southwest that looked like very close bright
planets at 9 PM. He aimed his telescope at the objects and when
he looked back up one of the objects started to fade away. He
states,"That's when I knew I was looking at something out of
this world when the first UFO faded away." He called his sister
but the last UFO then it started to fade away also. By the time
my sister came out it was already gone. All this happened
probably within 30-60 seconds. My heart was pounding because I
have never seen anything like that in my life before. The
objects were really bright ten times brighter than any planet.
Through the telescope he saw a dark circle with a really thin
line of light from the Moon." Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

California Cylinders and Light

MODESTO -- At 9 PM, on Memorial Day, May 31, 2004, while
glancing up at Canis Major, the witness saw an out of place
luminous object twice the magnitude of Polaris. The witness
states, "Immediately I knew that the object didn't belong there
and brought it to the attention of two nearby friends. As they
looked the object void of contrail or trailing "burn off" bolted
to the east for about a second coming to a full stop within the
Sextan's Star Formation. It stayed almost perfectly still for
ten seconds, then in a "wobbly" manner descended, and
dramatically decreased its intensity and magnitude to a faint
pinhead object just over the house tops. This was a magnificent
white light that along its decent jettison a gold colored
object, which remained stationary for about four minutes until
we lost site of it. The main object was so intensely bright we
could not discern its shape, but it was probably spherical or
round. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

Modesto UFO taken by R. David Anderson May 31, 2004.

ORINDA A recording engineer who works in Berkeley was driving on
Highway 24 West, approaching the Caldecott tunnel in slow
traffic when he saw a cigar-shaped silver UFO on June 2, 2004.
It was flying north of East Bay Hills of at 12 PM. It was not
shiny metallic, but silver and had no wings or tail. It flew
north until the hills blocked the view. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director http://www.ufocenter.com/

SAN FRANCISCO Another witness saw a cylinder shaped craft on
June 11th, 2004, around 11:30 AM, while walking to his home in
Potrero Hill. He states, I was looking at the Bernal Heights
Hill, south of San Francisco when I saw a shiny object in the
sky that caught my attention."  What struck me as odd was it
seemed to be diving too steeply toward the ground. Then I
noticed there were no wings on the object. A passing thought
that occurred to me was that it might be some strange metal
capsule dropped from somewhere. It looked like a missile in how
it was moving and shape.  Then almost immediately one of those
planes with the long contrails quickly flew in the direction of
where the object has last been seen. Thanks to Brian Vike,
Director http://www.hbccufo.com/

Canada Disk and Globes

WHITBY, ONTARIO -- Around 7:50 AM, the witness was walking to
school on June 3, 2004, when he saw a disc that seemed to have
two wings on its sides. It flew at a constant speed at only 250
feet altitude in a horizontal direction. It then climbed at
about a 40 degree angle and disappeared. The witness states, "I
know what a plane looks like, but this craft gave me chills."

VERNON, B.C. On Saturday night June 5, 2004, the first flash was
so bright it appeared to lighten the close surroundings at 11:15
PM. It was flying under 8000 feet just over the building when a
halogen white flare appeared, pulsed once and vanished. Then low
in the northwest sky a few miles away another halogen white
globe flared that was visible for a few seconds, dimmed, and
then vanished. About ten minutes after midnight, 8000 feet over
the airport a white light became visible in the cloud as it
descended to just under the cloud. It was bigger than the small
planes that fly there. It brightened, then dimmed back to a
light the brightness of Jupiter, started to ascend back into the
cloud then vanished. Through the scattered clouds the witness
could see two golden globes heading both north and south at
different times. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director, HBCC UFO
Research


Portugal: UFO Photographed

Monte Novo - A UFO was photographed on Monday, May 31, 2004,
around 2:30 PM, by Eduardo Silva, 25, of the Instituto de
Soldadura e Qualidade (ISQ) as he performed a water quality
survey on the waters of Monte Novo. Two engineers and two
students were together but did not notice the presence of the
object until they checked the images picked up by the digital
camera. The Portuguese Air Force had followed the tracks of a
"spindle-shaped" object which had crossed the national air
space. On Monday, Colonel Barbosa of the Armed Forces High
Command explained that they were currently "cross-checking
information from the radar images and eyewitness accounts." The
reflection of the sun on the apparently metallic object agrees
with the shadows of the trees shown in the photo. Source: Ruiz
Chaves/Carlos Varela Correio da Manh=C3=A3 -
http://www.correiomanha.pt Translation (c) 2004. Scott Corrales,
Institute of Hispanic

PORTIM=C3=83O -- On June 1, 2004, the witness saw what appeared to
be a comet with a long very bright conical tail at 11:15 PM.
Suddenly, it started moving very fast in zigzags to the
southwest with a reddish point and it disappeared leaving a long
bright tail behind it, that lasted for a few minutes. It was not
a comet, it was not a meteorite, it was not space debris,
because debris or meteorites don't circle and don't stop in the
air. This UFO was seen in various places in Portugal and was on
TV and in all the press.

Twenty people saw a big light on the horizon flying from south
to north for 500 km over Portugal on June 1, 2004, at 11 PM. All
the people that saw the phenomenon report that the UFO was
traveling with a strong light, and with a strange tail of smoke.
The trajectory was never consensual, the speed also. The last
sightings were around 500 kilometers far from the first ones.
The sighting was covered by Portuguese television, radio
stations and newspapers. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

Italy Numerous UFO Reports

MILAN It looks like Milan has become the favorite destination of
both UFOs and strange lighting effects. In a fortnight span, we
received almost ten reports from people witnessing aerial
phenomena, plus one regarding a triangular Crop Circle in Mazzo
di Rho. On June 4th, 2004, V.R reports, "A noisy object slowly
flew above my house at midnight, heading northeast and that
wasn't an airplane. It emitted bright white lights and a loud
noise and disappeared beyond some palaces. Thanks to Roberto
Malini and Federico Dezi

Slovak - National Museum Crop Circles Exhibit

BRATISLAVA The Slovak National Museum recently opened an
exhibition entitled Crop Circles displaying the pictograms and
agro-symbols that unidentified flying objects have left on
Slovak territory. According to the exhibition's organizers,
witnesses have seen round, disk-shaped UFOs at the site of 85
percent of the crop circles here, as well as abroad. The
exhibition displays all the pictograms from Slovakia that have
been registered by the Trnava UFO club. Miroslav Karl=C3--k, the
club's chairman says, "The Trnava club has registered nine
locations where crop circles appeared, and 178 reports on UFO
observations in the Trnava region between 1992 and 2003."

Captured on a videocassette and in pictures by amateurs, the
display also features photographs from the Bratislava region.
Another part of the exhibition presents the cases of pictograms
found in England in the areas of Stonehenge, Crabwood, and
Chilbolton. The country is famous for its large number of these
formations. At the beginning of the 1990s, around 300 pictograms
were found there annually. The exhibition runs until July 25.
Thanks to Zuzana Hab=C5=A1udov=C3=A1
http://www.slovakspectator.sk/clanok-16397.html

New Zealand Meteroite

WELLINGTON (Reuters) - A grapefruit-sized meteorite  smashed
through the roof of a New Zealand house, hitting  a couch and
bouncing off the ceiling before coming to  rest under a
computer.   The 1.3 kg (2.9 lb) chunk of space debris dropped
out of  the sky and plummeted through the tiled roof of the
Auckland home Saturday.   "I was in the kitchen doing breakfast
and there was this almighty explosion," owner Brenda Archer told
the Sunday  Star-Times newspaper. "It was like a bomb had gone
off. I couldn't see  anything, there was just dust." Archer's
one-year-old grandson had been playing nearby  minutes before it
hit. It is only the ninth meteorite found in New Zealand and
the first to hit a home. The Archers, who are following expert
advice by drying  the rock out in their oven, plan to sell it or
give it to a museum. Experts believe the meteorite, a chunk of
an asteroid, could be worth more than =D8=F8 NZ$10,000 ($6,290), the
newspaper said.


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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 17

             Re: Chile: Man Who Mistook Wildcat for Chupacabras

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:49:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:54:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Chile: Man Who Mistook Wildcat for Chupacabras


SOURCE: La Cuarta (Santiago de Chile)
DATE: Thursday, June 17, 2004

Chile: Man Who Mistook Wildcat For Chupacabras To Be Fined

The curse of the Chupacabras weighs heavily on Isidoro Lizana,
who is looking at a fine of between 150 to 300 Chilean Pesos for
having mistaken a guina, a protected variety of wildcat, with
the legendary monster. Lizana beat it to death after the animal
killed 23 hens.

Lizana, who looks after the farm birds in Fra Fra Errazuriz, Las
Ramaditas, located between Marchigue and Pichilemu in the 6th
Region, was accused of poaching by the Agriculture and Livestock
Service in Santa Cruz after slaying one of the scarecest wild
cats on the planet, found only in Chile and on the other side of
the Andean Range.

Lizana appeared in court last Monday and placed the blame
squarely on four large dogs kept on his premises, who trapped
the guina. However, after a detailed study of the carcass,
wildlife inspectors ascertained that the animal had also been
beaten to death.

Patricio Estrada, SAG's Regional Director, shall determine in
coming days if Lizana acted with malice aforethought,
premeditation and planning in this animal crime. Luis Brito,
director of the Museum of Natural Sciences and Archaeology in
San Antonio, denounced the episode as a breach of the Hunting
Code, adding that the guina is a cat that has four to five young
per year, lives between 10-15 years  and is also one of the most
efficient controlers of long tailed mice and other carriers of
the Hanta virus. The guina's habitat ranges from Coquimbo to
Ays=E9n, has been protected since 1975, and the national
scientific community knows very little about its habits, partly
due to indiscriminate hunting and the fact that it cannot
reproduce in captivity.


Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Liliana Nunez O.










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   Jun > Jun 17

                 Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:06:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:59:18 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:52:53 +0000
>Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of Humanity'

<snip>

>Regrettably, MUFON has gone New Age increasingly in recent
>years.

>Some of you may recall my (forced) resignation from MUFON a
>couple of years ago when I criticized their line-up of speakers
>at the Southern California MUFON UFO symposium. There were some
>pretty far-out speakers listed.

>MUFON headquarters (John Schuessler) censored me and left me no
>choice but to resign as a regular columnist.

>I was told that the speaker choices were locally made and
>reflected local opinions, attitudes, beliefs, whatever. I
>replied that it reflected very badly on national MUFON, which
>didn't seem to concern them at all. So we went our separate
>ways.


Richard,

The loss, in the end, was MUFON's (IMO). MUFON has evolved into
a loosely organized collection of interest groups and
individuals and primarily collects sighting information from
those grassroots individuals and groups.

As I understand it, rules are being put into place that will
(IMO) just about ensure that future MUFON Symposiums will become
more and more entertainment venues. Someone from MUFON can
correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that there is a
requirement that local groups guarantee a large profit for the
National Headquarters (thousands of dollars) to be considered as
a potential site for a Symposium. This means local groups will
want to attract as many people as they can, so there's pressure
to make sure that "entertaining" speakers are highlighted.
Unfortunately, many of these are the same as those that caused
your separation from MUFON several years ago.

It's too bad.


Steve








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   Jun > Jun 17

               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:07:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:01:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -



http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jun/m17-001.shtml

>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:50 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

<snip>

>>On the other hand, note that so far little or no correlation has
>>been found between the FLIR and the radar images. That should
>>give us pause. Only continued real scientific investigation, not
>>guesswork or surmise or arguments about personalities, may
>>supply some answers.


>To all,

>I inform you of a study, just completed, by French former head of
>GEPAN, Claude Poher, in favour of the oil well flames.

>He intends to publish it soon in French, at the beginning of August.

>He has given me a copy privetely, and I must say that it looks
>impresive, although I am not competent enough to judge it.

>I hope he will also make it available in English.

>One argument is that the FLIR was not well calibrated for the
>elevation. He could measure that thanks to images of the rising
>Moon at the end of the FLIR video. Also, he calculates that the
>FLIR images had to be those of distant objects.


Hi Gildas,

I have already posted about the serious problems with the
Cantarell oil well fire explanation, of which elevation angle
into the sky was just one (other problems include depression
angle so low the "light" would have to be much closer than the
oil wells). Dr. Bruce Maccabee informed me a few weeks ago that
in some places the earth's horizon is dimly visible in the FLIR
video which would enable a conclusive verification of elevation
data. See my recent postings on UFO UpDates:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jun/m16-005.shtml

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jun/m11-022.shtml

In a posting on May 30 that did not make it onto UpDates I
pointed out my discovery of the moon calibration. The moon was
at +1.3 degrees elevation at 5:19:32 PM (CST) when the FLIR
showed it too low at -1 degs, a calibration error of about 2.3
degrees that in fact only makes the problems _worse_ for the oil
well theory. The FLIR obviously was set to register elevations
slightly _too low_ so that means that instead of rescuing the
flying oil wells it makes the _actual_ elevation angles of the
IR "lights" _higher_ by 2.3 degs. Subsequently Bruce Maccabee
calculated the sun position for a solar reflection at 4:46:59.5
PM that also verifies that the FLIR elevations were reading
about 2 degrees too low in elevation angle (-20 degs instead of
the correct and higher -18 degs elevation).

Using Bruce Maccabee's data I was able to verify three weeks ago
the moon's azimuth and elevation angles as correct and allowing
a small two- degree calibration factor to be applied to the FLIR
data (lunar data verified using US Naval Observatory online
calculations and corrected for aircraft altitude of 11,500 ft).
When the Mexican FLIR was aimed at the moon at 5:19:32 PM CST on
March 5, 2004, it also conclusively verified that the time zone
used was CST (something that had been previously uncertain).


>As for the radar returns, the first ones would be from a plane
>getting away and accelerating, and the ones at the end could be
>from a vehicle on the road, as Brad Sparks has already
>suggested.

The problem with the initial 100-400 mph radar target is that it
was detected at only 2-3 nautical miles range from the Mexican
AF aircraft with an APS-143 radar beam that is narrowly focused
on the horizontal as I understand it, so the target had to be
within view of the crew dead ahead at 12 o'clock level position
from 4:42 to 4:45 PM (and not directly below the plane where the
crew might not be able to see). Yet it was invisible to the
naked eye. It could not have been hidden by clouds because Bruce
Maccabee has triangulated cloud distances using the FLIR data
and aircraft movement for baselines and the clouds are roughly
10-30 miles away, not within 2 miles. Also the aircraft moved
over 10 miles in these 3 minutes and would have moved beyond any
cloud that could have hidden another aircraft, to say nothing of
the radar target's own motion of at least 5 miles during the
same time interval.

For at least 1 minute around 4:43 PM the FLIR camera was set on
WIDE angle view (25.2 degs wide horizontally and 18.3 degs
vertically) and almost exactly straight ahead 12 o'clock yet the
2-mile-range radar target did not appear on the infrared screen,
and it remained invisible to the human eyes searching for it.

For more than 1 minute from about 4:45 to 4:46 PM the FLIR
camera was viewing at WIDE angle straight ahead of the plane
where the radar target was tracked heading away from the
aircraft at exactly the same heading as the Mexican AF plane to
within a degree (301-302 degs True), traveling at almost exactly
the same speed (237 mph versus the Mexican AF's 227 mph) and
this time (at 4:45:10) a possible unidentified FLIR image or
"light" was picked up and tracked intermittently for the next
few minutes. This may be the one correlation between FLIR and
radar data in the entire incident, though unfortunately because
of incompleteness and lack of precision of the radar data and
gaps in the FLIR tape there is regrettable uncertainty.

There is a 2-minute gap in the FLIR video from 4:49 to 4:51 PM
so we don't know what happened then. But when the FLIR picks up
again at 4:51:24 PM there is an unidentified IR "light" nearly
dead ahead on WIDE angle view, which might be where the radar
target was located -- if only we had radar data at this time
frame. If the previous and subsequent radar targets were one and
the same then it could be a continued correlation with the FLIR
data. But it would be nice to have the missing FLIR tape and a
full set of radar data. It seems the radar system did not have
recording equipment.

The WIDE angle gives us some assurance that the radar target
might be and ought to be caught within the field of view.
However when it switches the next second, 4:51:25, to MED
(Medium) field of view, it takes away our confidence in coverage
of the area of the sky where the radar target may be located,
because the FLIR camera may then be focused narrowly on the
wrong location and we have no way of knowing.

Soon afterward there is another FLIR tape gap of over a minute,
at 4:51- 4:52, and when it returns the field of view was on MED
and later narrows even further. What if the FLIR was on WIDE
during the gap? Maybe that would provide evidence to match up
with the radar data -- should we ever find any for that
interval.

>Let's hope that the test flight by the Mexican Air Force will
>clarify all this. For my part, I will also wait for the
>conclusion of Bruce Maccabee.

Agreed. The fact the Mexiacn AF has to run a special flight
suggests they do not conduct exactly similar patrols in the same
area all the time.


Brad Sparks








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   Jun > Jun 17

               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Brenda Denzler <denzlerb.nul>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:09:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:03:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>To all,

>I inform you of a study, just completed, by French former head
>of GEPAN, Claude Poher, in favour of the oil well flames.

>He intends to publish it soon in French, at the beginning
>of August.

>He has given me a copy privetely, and I must say that it looks
>impresive, although I am not competent enough to judge it.

>I hope he will also make it available in English.


I can read French. Perhaps I can offer my services as a
translator?

My translation would have to be checked by someone else with
better English-French skills than mine, but....


Brenda Denzler








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   Jun > Jun 17

                        Re: Secrecy News -- 06/17/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:26:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:08:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 06/17/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 56
June 17, 2004


**      NSPD ON FUTURE US OPERATIONS IN IRAQ
**      ISOO DIRECTOR LEONARD ON CLASSIFICATION POLICY
**      JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOIA GUIDE
**      NORTH KOREAN WEATHER: PARTLY CLOUDY


NSPD ON FUTURE US OPERATIONS IN IRAQ

A National Security Presidential Directive (NSPD) signed by
President Bush on May 11 defines the organization and structure
of the U.S. presence in Iraq that will replace the Coalition
Provisional Authority following the planned transition to Iraqi
sovereignty by June 30.

The NSPD establishes a State Department-controlled Iraq
Reconstruction Management Office (IRMO) "to facilitate the
transition in Iraq" as well as another entity within the Defense
Department called the Project and Contracting Office (PCO) "to
provide acquisition and project management support."

The directive was first reported by the New York Times on May
14. But as is the case with almost all Bush Administration
NSPDs, the full text has not been made publicly available by the
White House.

A copy was obtained by Secrecy News from a U.S. government
source.

See "United States Government Operations in Iraq," May 11, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd051104.pdf


ISOO DIRECTOR LEONARD ON CLASSIFICATION POLICY

The director of the government office responsible for overseeing
national security classification policy sounded a warning this
week that the integrity of the classification system may be in
danger.

"While the policy for security classification as set forth by
the President is fundamentally sound, lately I have become
increasingly concerned with respect to how the basics are being
implemented in some quarters," said J. William Leonard, director
of the Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO).

Noting indications of excessive classification, Mr. Leonard
suggested a link to the "veritable epidemic of leaks"
experienced by some agencies, which he said are "part and parcel
of what occurs when individuals begin to lose confidence in the
security classification system."

Speaking to an annual gathering of classification officials
convened by the National Classification Management Society
Tuesday in Reno, Nevada, Mr. Leonard called for closer attention
to "the basics" of classification policy.

It is true, he said, that "Too little classification can subject
our citizens, our democratic institutions, our homeland
security, and our interactions with foreign nations to potential
harm."

But "Too much classification unnecessarily impedes effective
information sharing, and inappropriate classification undermines
the integrity of the entire process."

See the text of his June 15 speech here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/leonard061504.pdf


JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOIA GUIDE

The Justice Department Office of Information and Privacy has
published a newly updated edition of its Freedom of Information
Act Guide.

The Guide is a comprehensive treatment of the Act's provisions,
extensively annotated with footnotes to the ever-growing body of
case law.

While the principal audience for the Guide seems to be
government attorneys and FOIA officers who must implement the
Act, it is also a useful resource for FOIA requesters seeking
insight into FOIA practice and procedure.

The full text of the May 2004 edition of the FOIA Guide is now
available on the Justice Department web site here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foi-act.htm


NORTH KOREAN WEATHER: PARTLY CLOUDY

For fifty years, North and South Korea have been blasting
propaganda slogans at each other over dozens of high-performance
loudspeakers placed along the border between them.

This week, by mutual consent, "the plug was pulled on the ear-
splitting broadcasts... for the first time since the 1950-53
Korean War," according to an Agence France Presse report.

Meanwhile, to the annoyance of North Korea, U.S. aerial
reconnaissance of the North naturally continues unabated.

The weather forecasting procedures needed to support U-2
reconnaissance flights over North Korea are described in a U.S.
Air Force directive.  A copy of the "recce forecast" directive,
newly updated on June 9, is available here (thanks to RT):

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/usaf/dmz-recce.html


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 17

               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:41:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:40:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:50 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

><snip>

>>On the other hand, note that so far little or no correlation has
>>been found between the FLIR and the radar images. That should
>>give us pause. Only continued real scientific investigation, not
>>guesswork or surmise or arguments about personalities, may
>>supply some answers.

>To all,

>I inform you of a study, just completed, by French former head of
>GEPAN, Claude Poher, in favour of the oil well flames.

>He intends to publish it soon in French, at the beginning of August.

>He has given me a copy privetely, and I must say that it looks
>impresive, although I am not competent enough to judge it.

>I hope he will also make it available in English.

>One argument is that the FLIR was not well calibrated for the
>elevation. He could measure that thanks to images of the rising
>Moon at the end of the FLIR video. Also, he calculates that the
>FLIR images had to be those of distant objects.

>As for the radar returns, the first ones would be from a plane
>getting away and accelerating, and the ones at the end could be
>from a vehicle on the road, as Brad Sparks has already
>suggested.

>Let's hope that the test flight by the Mexican Air Force will
>clarify all this. For my part, I will also wait for the
>conclusion of Bruce Maccabee.


Thanks for that information, Gildas.

Now, does any one of you out there know the scan rate of the
FLIR? If so, I'd appreciate knowing it.

I ask that because although visible gas burning by oil well
operations and refineries would appear to the human eye as
flickering and wavering, etc., unlike the rather steady images
we see in infrared in the FLIR images, one might justifiably
wonder whether a slow scan rate (thus combining wavering of the
source into a more stable-looking image) plus, perhaps, light
scattering of infrared through clouds or a highly moist
atmosphere might cause resultant FLIR images of gas-burning
flames to look far more steady than one notices in the visible
range via the human eye-brain system in direct view of such
flames.

If that is the case, then my objection (lack of gas flame
flipping around, etc.) to the gas flame hypothesis is not
sustainable, and I await with even greater interest for the
result(s) any flight test(s) the Mexican Air Force might
perform.

Claude Poher is to be commended for his discovery of the need
for re-calibration of the FLIR image-bearing data based on the
equipment error revealed in the moon sequence.That may turn
out to be the most important single bit of scientific input
we've had on this case, to date.

As I have stated in each of my postings on this, it is likely
NOT the 'smoking gun' case some all too quickly declared it.

I closed in my last posting before this by saying, "Certainly
Maussan has, in public declarations, excitedly 'inflated' this
case far beyond its real value."

Well, perhaps the real value of the Campeche case may be to
teach UFO enthusiasts not to jump up and down, shouting with
enthusiasm, unless or until the jury returns with a favorable
verdict.

All that glitters is not gold.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Jun > Jun 17

              Re: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:36:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:42:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - Boone


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:49:53 -0300
>Subject: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - 06-22-04

>For those amongst the Listers who are either night people or
>interested in UFOs or interested in SETI, I would like to inform
>you and all your friends and enemies that I have just been
>notified by the program producer that Astronomer Dr. Seth
>Shostak of the SETI Institute has accepted my challenge and will
>be discussing UFOs and SETI with me starting at 11PM Pacific
>Time on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 on the Coast to Coast radio
>program with George Noory.

>We will be on for 3 hours... ending at 6AM Atlantic Time. It
>should be interesting as we each gave three very different
>lectures on the QE 2 this past December.

>Seth's latest book is "Cosmic Company: The Search for Life in
>the Universe" with Alex Barnett, Cambridge University Press,
>2003.

>A summary of my views about SETI can be found on my website
>http://www.stanfriedman.com .


>Stan Friedman


Yeeehaaa!! Finally, a C2C show worth staying up for!

I can't wait! It's going to be better than WWF Smackdown! Maybe
George Noory can let ol' 'Mean Gene' Okerland announcer
extraordinaire do a guest spot on the show introducing the
match! Call Vince McMahon!

I can see it now, Friedman clobbers Shostak with his patented
'Flying Saucer Smash', Shostak counters with his "SETI
Sideswipe", in a flurry of fancy footwork Friedman dodges. Cries
of 'Foreign Object! Foreign Object!' rise from the spectators,
Friedman has produced documents containing scientific facts! The
crowd goes wild, popcorn and soft drinks fly about the ring and
stands. Truly a battle of Titans!

Sorry if I got a li'l silly, but I'm in a good mood.


Best,

Greg








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   Jun > Jun 17

                  Audio History of Alien Abduction & Animal

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:53:48 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:45:07 -0400
Subject: Audio History of Alien Abduction & Animal


CE IV: An Audio History of Alien Abduction & Animal Mutilation - 1957 to 1976

Greetings to the Listarians:

For those collecting the Audio History of Ufology Series, Volume
4 is now available.

"CE IV: An Audio History of Alien Abduction & Animal Mutilation
- 1957 to 1976," has been completed and ready for researchers.
This compilation comprises 25.5+ hours of historical recordings.
That's right...almost 26 hours of recordings from the early
years of Ufology.

Areas covered are the following cases: Betty & Barney Hill,
Betty Andreasson, Herb Shirmer, Travis Walton, Maureen Puddy,
Charles Hickson & Calvin Parker, Carrol Wayne Watts, Snippy the
Horse mutilation, lectures, newscasts, hypnosis session
medley's, etc.

Available directly from me or Arcturus Books. A donation of $30
(postage paid to anywhere in the world) is requested for
continuation of the preservation effort. I accept PayPal. Just
use my email address, or you can send your donation to:

Wendy Connors P.O. Box 8552 Albuquerque, NM 87198

EBK and I will be presenting clips from many of the recordings
on "Strange Days...Indeed!" on July 10th, so please join us then
for audio clips from Ufology's history.

Please remember that these compilations are in MP3 format and
for use on your computer. Each compilation contains a guide to
the recordings which can be printed out for reference.

Volumes 1 through 3 are still available if you have gaps in your
collection. Vol. 1 is "Ufology: An Audio Primer - 1938 to 1959,"
Vol. 2 is "High Strangeness: Men in Black, Mothman, Flatwoods
Monster and Hairy BiPeds in UFOs" and Vol. 3 is "Project Magnet:
Wilbert B. Smith and Canada's Search for Flying Saucers."

Thank you for supporting the audio preservation project!


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com









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              Re: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:21:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:47:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - Groff


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:49:53 -0300
>Subject: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - 06-22-04

>Stan Friedman wrote:

>For those amongst the Listers who are either night people or
>interested in UFOs or interested in SETI, I would like to inform
>you and all your friends and enemies that I have just been
>notified by the program producer that Astronomer Dr. Seth
>Shostak of the SETI Institute has accepted my challenge and will
>be discussing UFOs and SETI with me starting at 11PM Pacific
>Time on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 on the Coast to Coast radio
>program with George Noory.

Wouldn't you know it. I've been waiting to hear such a debate
and it so happens that I have to work that night.

Does C2C still archive their broadcasts?


Terry Groff









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   Jun > Jun 17

                      Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall

From: Michael Bilodeau <micbilodeau.nul-bec.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:16:00 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:49:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:06:40 +0000
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:58:23 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

<snip>

>>We all realize, I hope, that A. HOVNI is a pseudonym for a well
>>known American UFO writer/speaker of Chilean origin, right? His
>>first name does start with 'A' and his last name does start with
>>'H', and he does write about OVNIs.

>Well, Jim, I immediately spotted the "OVNI" and was suspicious
>of that, but was not sure who it was. So it's Antonio Huneeus,
>eh? No doubt ashamed of writing for such a... notorious...
>publication.

>Antonio is a nice guy and a reputable reporter, but should know
>better. And Grant Cameron should know better than to traffic in
>unconfirmed rumors instead of sticking to carefully documented
>facts.

Hovni's article was published in the September 1988 issue of UFO
Universe.

If the paper is B.S. then Antonio Huneeus is not so reputable.
If Antonio Huneeus is reputable, then his article is not B.S.

You seem to know the guy well.

Is Antonio Huneeus reputable or not?

If he is, please tell me when he stopped/started writing B.S.

If, in the end, Antonio Huneeus _is_ reputable, then the source
is perfectly legitimate.

Citing legitimate sources is the basis of scientific writing.








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   Jun > Jun 18

                       Military 'Coming Out' On UFOs?

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:09:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:59:42 -0400
Subject: Military 'Coming Out' On UFOs?


On TV Wednesday night 16th June 2004 Channel 5 UK terrestrial TV
was a new documentary on UFOs which said that all UFOs were
derived from a German technology engineer after WW2. The flying
saucers and all documentation was destroyed before the fall of
Germany. The USSR during the cold war furthered it first with
the help of this engineer who thought it a shame to waste the
technology and they used to send them over the south pole to spy
on USA ( approx 1947 on ). USSR flying saucer chap then defected
to the USA and the USA then furthered the technology even
further and continues today. They also said that the whole thing
about UFOs and aliens was a cover up for this spying by
aircraft ( flying saucers etc ) over the USSR and USA.

They also showed a little working model of one of the anti
gravity drives used which was a tight wire coil with a huge
current flowing through it which levitated < this was fantastic.
The guy also said  that the current is modulated at various
frequencies to increase efficiency.

They also showed the normal flying saucer technology which had a
fast air stream down over the top of the thing which gave lift
by increasing air pressure above and reducing it below the
craft.

As the program was not banned by anyone and no government
departments have made any 'noise' over it then maybe its true.

So sorry folks. Aliens - E.T. - does not exist, which includes
all the data we have including Roswell aliens and all the rest
which was just an elaborate cover up for the spying operations
with even many high level Military personnel hoodwinked.

I was mentally upset, as I presume you are, but there is still
the matter of Mars and Moon evidence of E.T. which was not
covered at all.


Kind wishes,

Colin Stevenson

PS. Presume the recent Mexican UFO wave to also be USA or
Russian stealth aircraft or what I and many others in the UK
watched on TV was incorrect and more false propaganda/cover up.








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                    Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <denzlerb.nul>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:28:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:34:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Denzler


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:45:55 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

<snip>

>Maggie has lore! Maggie has lore! Ed Gehrman wrote and reminded
>me she told Ms. Bruni that, "...you can't tell the people"!
>Thanks and a tip of the hat... [g]. As to Reagan, he might have
>had heart and he might have had charisma, but he didn't have
>soul and he didn't have conscience.

You forgot to mention "brains," too.


Brenda Denzler







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                         Test - List Server Problems

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:39:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:39:53 -0400
Subject: Test - List Server Problems

This is only a Test.

If it was a real List Post it would be far more
interesting.....

There are several clever people trying to resolve the
problem.


ebk







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                       List Software Problems Continue

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:42:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:42:55 -0400
Subject: List Software Problems Continue

The Archive software still functions so recent subscriber
mail will be sent out today.

Once the problem with the List-mail software is resolved,
subscribers will receive back-logged posts.


Errol Bruce-Knapp
Moderator
UFO UpDates - Toronto







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             Re: Five UFOs In Skies Above Emley Moor - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:16:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:29:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Five UFOs In Skies Above Emley Moor - Dickenson


>From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami.nul>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:10:15 -0400
>Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:19:11 -0400
>Subject: Five UFOs In Skies Above Emley Moor

>Source: The Huddersfield Daily Examiner

>http://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/page.cfm?objectid=
14335648&method=full&siteid=50060
>Jun 16 2004

>Caught on film - Five UFOs In The Skies Above Emley

Hello Virgilio & List

Just searched all BBC News sites (they have lots of Locals) and
there's no mention of the "formation fly-by" of the Emley Moor
Mast (TV Tower).

But maybe I'm not surprised, after I found this previous
sighting report concerning Emley Moor TV Tower / Mast (was
highest building in UK when completed in 1971)

http://www.ufoinfo.com/sightings/uk/799800.shtml

QUOTE
Emley Moor, Huddersfield, West Yorks, England
Date: 1998
Time: 10:00 p.m.

"On the moors I noticed a strange ambient light as I looked out
of the car window as I drove along. I initially thought someone
was having an outdoor party (it was almost 10:00 p.m.), As I
drove along the road I could see what it was. I flying saucer at
ground level about to take off. As I watched it lifted into the
sky, rotating like a giant Ferris wheel. 90 seconds later it was
high in the sky. My wide [sic] saw it too as did some clients of
mine who were in the area at 8:00 p.m.. So it had been there for
2 hours. This sighting - within 300 yards is situated the TV
transmitter station - the tallest building in the area, manned
24 hours a day; those guys must have seen it, filmed it,
reported it, etc., etc. Yet not a word appeared on the local TV
News. Yet a few months afterwards the local TV News DID carry a
different flying saucer story which they could explain (it was a
mobile camera belonging to the BBC flying above a football
ground)." HBCC UFO Research UNQUOTE

It seems that BBC & TV Authority have a record of actively
suppressing any real UFO news in UK.

Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com





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                    Greenewald To MC 2004 MUFON Symposium

From: John Greenewald, Jr. <tbvfuture.nul>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:17:23 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:56:08 -0400
Subject: Greenewald To MC 2004 MUFON Symposium


John Greenewald, Jr. to be the Master of Ceremonies at 2004
MUFON Symposium

NORTHRIDGE (BlackVault) - June 18, 2004 - It is with great honor
I announce that John Shuessler and the MUFON board have asked me
to be the Master of Ceremonies at the 2004 MUFON Symposium in
Colorado this July 15 -18!

I am grateful for this prestigious invitation and look forward
to seeing all of you who plan to attend this year. The MUFON
symposium is always, year after year, one of the most attended
and revered conferences held.

I have had the distinct pleasure to speak at the MUFON Symposium
in both St. Louis, MO and Dearborn, MI. This year, the event
will be held in Denver, CO from July 15 - July 18. This event is
well planned, and starts with a "Not of this Earth Day" kickoff
at Six Flags Magic Mountain on Thursday, July 15.

During the weekend, the events will be very exciting! Beginning
with a noon press conference on Friday, a "Meet the Speakers"
party (which are always my favorite!) a social, followed by a
dinner, then, finished with a round table discussion - which I
will also have the honor of being a part of!

The speaker list includes: John F. Schuessler, Stephen Bassett,
Grant Cameron, Peter B. Davenport, Deborah Lindemann C.H.T.,
Budd Hopkins, David Sereda, Nick Redfern, Ryan Wood, Leslie
Kean, and Paul Davids. Yes, I will also being giving a
presentation.

The Black Vault Message Forums have some discussion that there
might be a Black Vault get-together. This has been discussed for
a few days now, started by a few other members. I am trying to
see how many people might attend this party, because I think
that the MUFON Symposium might be a great place to meet up!

Post on the forums if you would be interested:

http://www.bvalphaserver.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=32558

If you are interested in attending, please head to:

http://www.comufon.org

for more information, and to register. Room rates are reduced,
but only until July 1 - so act fast!


Sincerely,

John Greenewald, Jr.

The Black Vault Headquarters
http://www.blackvault.com








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                Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

From: Laurent Leger <leger-l.nul>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 23:00:52 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:58:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:41:24 -0400
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

<snip>

>>To all,

>>I inform you of a study, just completed, by French former head of
>>GEPAN, Claude Poher, in favour of the oil well flames.

>>He intends to publish it soon in French, at the beginning of August.

>>He has given me a copy privetely, and I must say that it looks
>>impresive, although I am not competent enough to judge it.

>>I hope he will also make it available in English.

>>One argument is that the FLIR was not well calibrated for the
>>elevation. He could measure that thanks to images of the rising
>>Moon at the end of the FLIR video. Also, he calculates that the
>>FLIR images had to be those of distant objects.

>>As for the radar returns, the first ones would be from a plane
>>getting away and accelerating, and the ones at the end could be
>>from a vehicle on the road, as Brad Sparks has already
>>suggested.

>>Let's hope that the test flight by the Mexican Air Force will
>>clarify all this. For my part, I will also wait for the
>>conclusion of Bruce Maccabee.

>Thanks for that information, Gildas.

>Now, does any one of you out there know the scan rate of the
>FLIR? If so, I'd appreciate knowing it.

Hi Ray and List,

According to the FLIR brochure, the video signal is complying to
the NTSC (or PAL in option ?) standard. Dr Maccabee confirmed
that the video he received was 30 frames/sec, or 60 fields/sec.
Of course, time exposure is the first parameter (with diaphragm
control, we don't know if it is present there) to adjust the
flux on the sensor. It means that the intensity "sampling" can
range from 16 milliseconds to a fraction of a millisecond,
giving a different averaging effect on intensity fluctuations (a
secondary one IMHO).

>I ask that because although visible gas burning by oil well
>operations and refineries would appear to the human eye as
>flickering and wavering, etc., unlike the rather steady images
>we see in infrared in the FLIR images, one might justifiably
>wonder whether a slow scan rate (thus combining wavering of the
>source into a more stable-looking image) plus, perhaps, light
>scattering of infrared through clouds or a highly moist
>atmosphere might cause resultant FLIR images of gas-burning
>flames to look far more steady than one notices in the visible
>range via the human eye-brain system in direct view of such
>flames.

I agree, there is a spatial average from the optics (diffraction
/aberrations) and the medium (haze) point spread function,
making each pixel receive a flux contribution from distant
points in the flame. Not talking of the highly saturated parts
of the images where fluctuations are obviously removed.

<snip>

>Claude Poher is to be commended for his discovery of the need
>for re-calibration of the FLIR image-bearing data based on the
>equipment error revealed in the moon sequence.That may turn
>out to be the most important single bit of scientific input
>we've had on this case, to date.

Well, unfortunately I don't know Mr. Poher's work and data
basis, but I think it is Dr Maccabee that pointed out that, at
least, the azimuth axis showed an hysteresis and a calibration
offset. And in my answer to Brad Sparks of the June 2nd, I
recalled that images with a positive displayed elevation could
in fact point below horizon. Sure, it is a crucial point in the
analysis work of the infrared part of this event.


Regards,

LL








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                     Mexico: Evaporation May Be Evident

From: Victor Viggiani <zland.nul>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:03:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:56:13 -0400
Subject: Mexico: Evaporation May Be Evident


List,

It is slowly becoming apparent that the highly charged
environment surrounding the March UFO sightings in Mexico is
beginning to evaporate or become inert. A perception of silence
is developing.

This possibility should be addressed.

This is not simply a UFO event, it is the major political break-
through, one the UFO community has been waiting for years - Exo
Politics at its best, like never before.

So, where is the information flow and discussion about the long
and short term political implications?

The political implications and the dialogue surrounding the
complex nature of the event's release is being ignored, creating
a predictable and growing ambivalence among media and the
public. This is not about oil wells, ball lightning and weather
balloons, it's about political secrecy, dam busting looking at
us in the face.

It is about how a world government has decided to release/share
solid revelatory findings.

Granted there needs to be a cogent and careful look at all of
the data, however little or no energy seems to be focused, at
least publicly, about:

1. Why the Mexican government/military so readily released this
data.

2. What the military spokespersons are saying now about the
event.

3. What, if any, current discussion/analysis is occurring in the
Mexican media.

4. Where are the witnesses?

5. Who or what group is taking resposibility for how the data
and politics are being managed.

6. What are the facts, what is conjecture and where does this
information reside?

7. How this the information is being characterized: a) as
someone's possession or b) information that belongs to and is
accessible to humanity. If it is (a) then it's as good as
sequestered behind government walls of secrecy.

If this event is as significant as it ostensibly appears to be,
is not critical that a sequence or flow of current and
consistently updated analysis be released by those who hold the
information?

The manner in which the data seems to be managed is, to say the
least, suspect, giving rise to the perception that there's
something going on behind the scenes. By appearing to keep the
public and media at bay creates a progressively disinterested
and suspicious audience even once the hard data eventually makes
its d=E9but.

This event is too important to suffer the same fate as other
civilian reports - it's from a government - who appears willing
to share. This is significant. They are undoubtedly not simply
sitting back and letting the 'ufo community' analyze the data.

To those who have been entrusted with this data:

Create a clear and consistent communication vehicle through
which this data and the progress towards its analysis is shared
with media outlets and over the internet.

Develop a mechanism through which government authorities can
continue to speak about what their rationale and motives are in
releasing this data.

Information evaporates from public consciousness unless it
managed i.e. remains poignant and credible if released,
reviewed, re-stated on a cyclical basis. Tell people what you
are going to do, tell them and then, tell them you've told them.

Talk to us...

In essence even if the data is eventually explained as something
prosaic - the release of this data by a government means
something very profound. It gives rise to a relevance to all of
the other world-wide reports and the other substantive
documentation we already possess as a research community.

Let's get it right this time...


Victor Viggiani








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                     Re: Ufology And Science - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:16:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:58:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufology And Science - McGonagle


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:47:24 +0100
>Subject: Re: Ufology And Science

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:50:16 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Ufology And Science

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:07:42 +0100
>>>Subject: Ufology And Science

>><snip>

Hello Nick, List,

<snip>

>Were there many in attendance?

<snip>

>I estimate that around 150 people attended the session.

>Best wishes,

>Nick Pope

That's a good turnout! I only wish that all-day or weekend
events put on by the smaller UFO groups drew as many. If people
(collectively) can generate in the order of =A31,000 in one hour
(as in this case), I don't quite understand why the UFO-specific
events are often not a commercial success here in the UK?

Cheers,

Joe








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   Jun > Jun 20

                   Re: Eisenhower And Aliens Again? - Koch

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 18:19:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:03:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Eisenhower And Aliens Again? - Koch


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:55:08 EDT
>Subject: Eisenhower And Aliens Again?

>Pardon if this story was already posted on this List.
>There's been some erratic emails and missed posts.

>http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A53203-2004
Feb18&notFound=true

>Regarding a researcher and his theory about Ike and
>aliens.

Yes, Greg, and they came back in 1964 as you can hear on my
website:

http://www.kochkyborg.de

I have  a small precious there: a part of the original sound of
the air traffic controller in the tower while the landing
unfolded. Please click on 'News' and then on the link to the
Edwards event.

So why Edwards? What was so important there? Was it just a
custom because they have met there the first time?


All the best to you all,

Joachim







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   Jun > Jun 21

                 Re: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast -

From: Giuliano 'Jimmy' Marinkovic <giuliano.marinkovic.nul>
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 19:33:46 +0200 (Central European Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:18:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast -


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:49:53 -0300
>Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:00:45 -0400
>Subject: Friedman & Shostak On Coast To Coast - 06-22-04

<snip>

>be discussing UFOs and SETI with me starting at 11PM Pacific
>Time on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 on the Coast to Coast radio
>program with George Noory.

>We will be on for 3 hours... ending at 6AM Atlantic Time.

<snip>

Is it going to be available on the archive for later
download?

If it is not going to be available, can anyone put it somewhere
on the Web in mp3 form for download please?


Best regards

Giuliano-Jimmy-Marinkovic
Host of the radio program UFO NAUTICA
Zagreb, Croatia










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                      Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall

From: Michael Bilodeau <micbilodeau.nul-bec.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:16:00 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:31:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Hall


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:06:40 +0000
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:58:23 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

<snip>

>>We all realize, I hope, that A. HOVNI is a pseudonym for a well
>>known American UFO writer/speaker of Chilean origin, right? His
>>first name does start with 'A' and his last name does start with
>>'H', and he does write about OVNIs.

>Well, Jim, I immediately spotted the "OVNI" and was suspicious
>of that, but was not sure who it was. So it's Antonio Huneeus,
>eh? No doubt ashamed of writing for such a... notorious...
>publication.

>Antonio is a nice guy and a reputable reporter, but should know
>better. And Grant Cameron should know better than to traffic in
>unconfirmed rumors instead of sticking to carefully documented
>facts.

Hovni's article was published in the September 1988 issue of UFO
Universe.

If the paper is B.S. then Antonio Huneeus is not so reputable.
If Antonio Huneeus is reputable, then his article is not B.S.

You seem to know the guy well.

Is Antonio Huneeus reputable or not?

If he is, please tell me when he stopped/started writing B.S.

If, in the end, Antonio Huneeus _is_ reputable, then the source
is perfectly legitimate.

Citing legitimate sources is the basis of scientific writing.






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   Jun > Jun 22

               Timothy Good Researches UFOs Stories In Helena

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami.nul>
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 18:27:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:42:59 -0400
Subject: Timothy Good Researches UFOs Stories In Helena


AUTHOR researches stories of alien encounters
Helena Independent Record - Helena,MT,USA

... But their belief in UFOs and alien encounters served as the only bond
the two would need to get the conversation started. Good, perhaps ...

<http://www.helenair.com/articles/2004/06/20/helena/a07062004_02.txt>


Virgilio S=E1nchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center








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                    Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:32:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:54:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings - Lehmberg


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:29:08 +0100
>Subject: Reagan's UFO Sightings

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:40:00 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Reagan's UFO Sightings

><snip>

>>Reagan had _better_ seen a few UFOs... or he should have died in
>>prison. Oh, and Maggie Thatcher bites the big-bag, too, but no
>>UFO lore from her. Pity...

>Alfred

>Gee Alfred, we did this on SDI. Were you asleep?

<snip>


...Snorin' like a drunk pulp-wooder on the third 'off' day!
Verily!

Still ...Errol only takes me out of his stasis box for three
hours every two weeks or so, so I wasn't asleep, really... just
dealing with some extreme time dilatation, fast forwards and
rewinds, and periods of no time 'passing' where I'm impervious
if not, unfortunately, oblivious.  Be that as it may? Maggie,
that officiously down-nosed harridan and smarmy Ronnie-booster,
has lore!  Come to think of it... _more_ has lore as not,
likely. <LOL>

Yea... and, on reflection, verily!

alienview.nul
EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                          Secrecy News -- 06/21/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:36:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:57:22 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 06/21/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 57
June 21, 2004


**      CORRECTING THE CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE
**      NNSA LOOKS AT HIGH ENERGY PETAWATT LASERS
**      HPSCI REPUBLICANS ON INTELLIGENCE REFORM


CORRECTING THE CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE

A major report last month by the Congressional Research Service
(CRS) on "Small Scale Terrorist Attacks Using Chemical and
Biological Agents" included significant errors of fact and
interpretation, non-governmental analysts say.

Normally, the congressional policy that prohibits direct public
access to CRS products also shields CRS reports from external
criticism.

But once the May 2004 CRS report was published on the FAS web
site (see Secrecy News, June 7), two subject matter experts
independently voiced concerns that the report included numerous
errors, big and small.

Thus, observed George Smith of GlobalSecurity.org, it is not
true that "Aum Shinrikyo developed an array of chemical and
biological agents to be used against the Japanese civilian
populace." They tried and failed.

Nor is it true that "Diphosgene has no industrial use," Dr.
Smith noted.

And although it has become an accepted cliche, it is grossly
misleading to assert that recipes for extracting ricin "are
available on the Internet," for reasons that he explains.

These and other criticisms were itemized by Dr. Smith in an
errata sheet for the CRS report which is available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32391-smith.html

Dr. Milton Leitenberg, an arms control expert at the University
of Maryland, independently identified some of the same flaws in
the CRS report, and some others. Excerpts from a letter he sent
to the CRS authors last week are posted here:

 http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32391-leitenberg.html

While such errors may be embarrassing, they are to be expected
in dealing with a subject of any complexity.

However, these errors were permitted to linger longer than
necessary by the congressional restrictions on public access to
CRS reports that effectively exclude outside analysts from the
review process. As long as CRS reports are insulated from
outside readers in this way, their quality is likely to suffer.

A similar problem afflicts U.S. intelligence products on an even
larger scale. It is obvious that not all expertise on any given
subject resides within government intelligence agencies. But
classification restrictions, even when they are justified on
national security grounds, inevitably inhibit the application of
the best-informed minds outside of government to crucial
problems of national policy.


NNSA LOOKS AT HIGH ENERGY PETAWATT LASERS

"In the mid 1990s, the United States was the pioneer in petawatt
(i.e., quadrillion watt) laser physics," according to a 2003
report from the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA).
"Today, U.S. leadership in the field has eroded, with Japan and
Europe taking the lead in the deployment of high-energy petawatt
(HEPW) lasers."

"Recognizing the positive impact HEPW lasers could have on the
Stockpile Stewardship Program, the NNSA intends to revitalize
U.S. involvement in this field," the NNSA said.

The revitalized HEPW laser program is described in "High Energy
Petawatt Lasers and the Stockpile Stewardship Program, NNSA,
July 1, 2003, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act (850
KB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/nuclear/hepw.pdf

The NNSA report builds upon an extensive investigation by the
JASON defense advisory group conducted in 2002.

See the JASON report on "High Power Lasers," April 2003 (5.3 MB
PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/hpl.pdf


HPSCI REPUBLICANS ON INTELLIGENCE REFORM

Republican members of the House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence (HPSCI) last week presented their vision of a
reformed intelligence community with the introduction of a bill
that would enhance the stature of the Director of Central
Intelligence and strengthen his authority over the intelligence
community.

The DCI would retain his position as head of the CIA, while the
CIA itself would assume a role in coordinating and directing the
entire intelligence community. The DCI's management of the
community would be exercised through several new associate
director and assistant director positions.

The DCI would also have increased authority over the entire
national intelligence (NFIP) budget.

In one particularly interesting new feature of the new bill,
intelligence funding would be appropriated "directly to the
Director of Central Intelligence" in a specified account that is
separate from defense appropriations (sect. 108).

If adopted, this provision would almost certainly imply
disclosure of the national intelligence budget total, contrary
to current practice.

See the "Directing Community Integration Act" (HR 4584),
introduced as a stand-alone bill on June 16, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/hr4584.html

In a markup of the 2005 intelligence authorization act last
week, Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee rebuffed a
competing Democratic proposal for intelligence reform, and also
rejected every other amendment proposed by Democrats.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
 secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
 http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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   Jun > Jun 22

                  Recruiting For Covert Agencies like MJ-12

From: Bob Huff <bob.nul>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:43:31 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:06:49 -0400
Subject: Recruiting For Covert Agencies like MJ-12


I recently met an individual who was recruited in the early 80's
for a covert Government Agency. I thought the process may be
illustrative of similar methods and means  used by government-
UFO organizations.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-
microsoft-com:office:office" />


The Study:

The individual was attending a university in the mid-west in the
mid-70s. During the individual�s junior year, the University
staff solicitated the individual and several others to
participate in a psychological study. An outside company, not
the University, conducted a series of psychological, behavioral,
and intelligence tests. Upon completion, each participant was
paid anywhere from $20 to $250 depending how far each progressed
in the testing.

After the testing, the testing group informally gathered and in
the course of their discussion they concluded that they were
subject of a study by an intelligence agency. They could only
speculate on its purpose.


The Recruitment:

In early 80s, a Mr. �Adams� from the CIA telephonically
contacted and asked if the individual was interest in
interviewing for a sensitive government position. Mr. Adams said
that because of the high test scores, the individual was being
approached. The individual was now about 25 years old.

The individual accepted the invitation. Along with 11 others,
the individual arrived at <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Dulles Airport
and were transported by car to CIA HQs. The group was composed
of mostly men from different parts of the country. None knew the
other.

At Langley, escorted by two Army captains, they boarded a
commercial bus. After boarding the bus, each person was
outfitted with a headset and was instructed to carefully listen
to its content. The instructions were a continuous stream of
directives to observe certain events and retain observations of
certain people and places. The interior of the bus also
contained video cameras to monitor and record the recruits.

The bus crossed from Virginia into Maryland and traveled for
about an hour and a half.  Upon its arrival, presumably at Ft
Meade [NSA headquarters], the group disembarked and was escorted
pass several guarded checkpoints in a secure facility.


The Testing:

The group was escorted to a large room containing numerous
computer terminals. It appeared to be an operations center of
some sort.

Their greeters explained that because of their extraordinary
test scores that the group would be tested over the next two
days to further identify their special capabilities.

Testing was intensive and continuous. Some tests involved
viewing garbled messages and translating them. Other tests
involved viewing different types of imagery. At the end of each
day, the individuals retired to provided rooms. The rooms were
simple but complete. But none provided windows. The tests were
completed in complete isolation from the outside world.


The Pitch:

The individual I spoke with again scored exceedingly well. On
the third day, the individual was met by four men. They
commended the individual on the test scores and offered a job.

The job was with a secret government agency independent of both
the CIA and NSA. The individual, undercover in a commercial
company and with a small team of two to three people, would
conduct a variety of covert actions. The actions would include
break-ins, code breaking and other spy craft. The individual was
told that the job would be an entry into an �unimaginable
world�.


The Answer:

The individual was given a week to consider the offer. For a
variety of personal reasons the individual said �No�.


Of Possible Interest to this List:

On several occasions, I have met people who were familiar with
MJ-12 operating procedures. They indicated the agency has a
means of identifying potential candidates and recruiting them.
The process also reaffirms the contention that 'you don't join
MJ-12; they find you'.  I believe the above identifies these
mechanisms.

Also of particular interest, is that the above individual after
this interview became aware of MJ-12 and its alien mission. The
time was well before the 1987 release of the �MJ-12 Documents�.


Best,

Bob








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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 23:23:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:11:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:41:24 -0400
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>Now, does any one of you out there know the scan rate of the
>FLIR? If so, I'd appreciate knowing it.

As I understand it, the FLIR built by FLIR Systems is designed
to produce a picture compatible with ordinary TV (NTSC) or 30
frames/sec consisting of 60 fields/sec (interlaced).

Note: FLIR = Forward Looking Infra Red (a generic name going
back into the 60's or earlier. A "FLIR system" comprises all
the devices and electronics necessary to make a TV-like
presentation of heat emitting/reflecting objects.

FLIR Systems: the name of a company that makes (you guessed it!)
FLIR systems.

>I ask that because although visible gas burning by oil well
>operations and refineries would appear to the human eye as
>flickering and wavering, etc., unlike the rather steady images
>we see in infrared in the FLIR images, one might justifiably
>wonder whether a slow scan rate (thus combining wavering of the
>source into a more stable-looking image) plus, perhaps, light
>scattering of infrared through clouds or a highly moist
>atmosphere might cause resultant FLIR images of gas-burning
>flames to look far more steady than one notices in the visible
>range via the human eye-brain system in direct view of such
>flames.

>If that is the case, then my objection (lack of gas flame
>lipping around, etc.) to the gas flame hypothesis is not
>sustainable, and I await with even greater interest for the
>result(s) any flight test(s) the Mexican Air Force might
>perform.

If the Mexican AF does the experiment I have requested we should
get the answer to this. In the meantime I would point out that
even if the flame were displaced by its whole width or length
that would be motion of maybe ten feet or less which would make
a very small angular displacement at a distance of 40 miles or
more. Variations in brightness of the images could be due to
variations in transmission of the atmosphere along the line of
sight from the plane to the fire as the plane flies along.

>Claude Poher is to be commended for his discovery of the need
>for re-calibration of the FLIR image-bearing data based on the
>equipment error revealed in the moon sequence.That may turn
>out to be the most important single bit of scientific input
>we've had on this case, to date.

This need was pointed out in the data/analysis sheet I sent him.
Not only is there an "absolute" calibration problem, there also
appears to be "slop" or "hysteresis " in the pointing mechanism.








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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 23:28:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:13:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:15:28 -0500
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>Let us not forget that, according to the testimony of the crew,
>at no time were any of these objects ever visible to the naked
>eye.

>I could be wrong (Who, Me?) but it seems to me that oil well
>flames would be quite visible to the unaided observer. Perhaps
>if the MDOD perform the test flight that Bruce Maccabee
>mentioned, this oil well business can be confirmed or
>contradicted

Actually the failure to detect by eye is not surprising
considering the distance. The atmosphere attenuates visible
radiation more than infrared so one would expect the flir system
to detect a source of light and heat at a greater distance than
the eye.

(At night, with no skylight due to the sun, the visible
radiation could be detected much farther than during the day,
but even then the infrared could be detected farther than that
because of the differential absorption, IR vs.visible)








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                Man Finds Tough Sell For His 'UFO Discovery'

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 07:48:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:25:45 -0400
Subject: Man Finds Tough Sell For His 'UFO Discovery'


Source: The Seattle Times

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001961735_ufo22.html

Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - Page updated at 12:00 A.M.

Man finds tough sell for his "UFO discovery"

By Steve Rock
Knight Ridder Newspapers

REEDS SPRING, Mo. =97 Bob White is convinced his story deserves a
grand stage, that his most prized possession should be displayed
before a national audience.

It should draw tourists from all over the country, he figures,
and be a major attraction for people who want to see an artifact
that White swears was retrieved from a UFO in 1985.

Instead, White's find is in tiny Reeds Spring in southwestern
Missouri, secured in a locked display case at Museum of the
Unexplained, a converted video-rental store that, during a
recent morning, went more than three hours without a customer.

White can't figure it out.

All he wants to do is find some believers. He wants people to
quit snickering and looking at him as if he's crazy. He wants
them to listen to his story, to take a hard look at his metallic
artifact, to give him a chance.

"This," White said, "is the most difficult thing I've ever done
in my life."

The odds are stacked against him. He and his partner at the
museum, Robert Gibbons, have been rejected and ridiculed. White
estimates he has spent more than $60,000 traveling to
conferences, starting the museum, having the artifact tested and
retested.

And yet he forges on.

"I'm 73 years old," White said. "I don't have much longer.

"What I'd like to see before I'm gone is the national media get
their heads out of their ... " White paused, choosing his words
carefully, "out of the sand. I'd like to see the national media
and everybody else realize that what I have is real."

Scientists theorize that the "UFO" lights that White said he
encountered could have been nothing more than a meteorite, that
his artifact could be space debris. Some scientists who have
tested the object said there was nothing extraterrestrial about
it.

Ask White whether he believed in unidentified flying objects
prior to 1985, and he scrunches up his nose.

"Never," he said. "Not a bit. I was the biggest skeptic in the
world."

That all changed overnight. Here's how he remembers it:

White and a friend were driving from Denver to Las Vegas on a
desolate highway near the Colorado-Utah border. It was 2 or 3
a.m., he said, and White was sleeping in the passenger seat. At
one point, his friend woke him up and pointed out a strange
light in the distance. White didn't think much of it and went
back to sleep.

Then his friend woke him up again. This time, White said, the
lights were blinding.

He got out of the car and stared, dumbfounded. The object was
about 100 yards in front of him, he said, "and it was huge ...
absolutely huge."

In time, he said, the lights bolted toward the sky and connected
with a pair of neon, tubular lights =97 "the mother ship," White
guesses now. And just like that, he said, the entire contraption
zipped eastward through the Colorado sky and disappeared.

"What I saw," White said, "was not of this Earth."

As the craft flew away, White said, he noticed an orange light
falling to the ground. A locator probe? Something that simply
broke off? It was red hot when he reached it, he said, but in
time it cooled enough to pick up. White shoved the object into
the trunk of the car.

The object is about 7-1/2 inches long and shaped like a
teardrop. It has a coarse, metallic exterior and weighs less
than 2 pounds. It looks a bit like it could be a petrified pine
cone and is composed primarily of aluminum.

White has had the item tested several times, hoping for some
answers.

The Nevada-based National Institute for Discovery Science in
1996 sent a sample of the object to the New Mexico Institute of
Mining and Technology.

"The metallurgical analysis was pretty mundane," said Colm
Kelleher, a scientist at the National Institute for Discovery
Science.

"We didn't find any evidence that it was extraterrestrial. Now
you can make the argument that we didn't spend $1 million and
look at every conceivable option. We didn't cover every base."

Another scientist who tested it at a California laboratory =97 and
who asked that his name and that of the laboratory not be used =97
said, "It didn't show any extraterrestrial signature."

Sgt. Gary Carpenter, who works at the North American Aerospace
Defense Command in Colorado Springs, Colo., said it was not
uncommon for NORAD to get calls about strange lights and
unidentified objects. Not once, he said, has the object been
identified as an alien spacecraft.

"Usually it turns out to be space debris from a satellite that's
decaying, or it's in the realm of naturally occurring, celestial
lights," he said. "It could be something like a falling star. It
could be contrails, the things you would see trailing an
aircraft."

White opened the Museum of the Unexplained with visions of
turning it into a destination. He wasn't looking to get rich =97
according to the Missouri secretary of state's office, the
museum was registered as a nonprofit organization in August 2000
=97 but he hoped to spread the word about his experience.

The museum, about 13 miles north of the glitzy Branson strip,
might as well be in another world. There are no neon signs
pointing the way, no twinkling lights outside the front door.
Rather, it's sandwiched between the Humane Society thrift shop
and the Sunrise Cafe on Main Street.

It has struggled, unable to tap into the Branson spinoff crowd
and secure a niche audience of its own. Only 2,800 people went
through the doors that first year, when admission was free, and
the museum hasn't been able to replicate those numbers since.

These days, patrons age 12 and older pay $5 to stroll through
about 2,000 square feet of space. Exhibits include a keyboard
from the movie "Men in Black II" in which the shift key doesn't
capitalize or decapitalize but translates from English to an
alien language. Other exhibits are little more than newspaper
articles or passages from the Internet affixed to the wall with
thumb tacks.

The focal point is White's artifact, and he takes no chances
with its safety. Motion detectors, closed-circuit TV and window
and door alarms protect it at all times. White packs it up in a
gun case every day at 5 p.m., and the object never spends the
night at the same place two nights in a row. You can never be
too sure, he figures, even in a town with just 465 residents.

"I'm happy for them that they're having a good time, but I guess
I'm just not into that kind of thing," said Kacee Cashman, the
Reeds Spring city clerk since 1998. "I really think they've been
accepted, but everybody's kind of taking it with a grain of
salt."

Said White, "I don't know what I have to do to prove this is the
truth. You can't make this stuff up."










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                           The Truth Is Out There!

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 07:54:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:30:19 -0400
Subject: The Truth Is Out There!


Source: ABC Central West NSW

http://www.abc.net.au/centralwest/stories/s1137504.htm

The Truth Is Out There!

Presenter: Jen Lacey

Researcher: Ellie McNamara

Tuesday, 22 June  2004

The Central West Paranormal Research Group has recently been set
up in Orange.

A collection of believers, the group is interested in learning
more about paranormal events and experiences in the Central
West.

The Group�s founders Debra Goininan and Russell Dunn say
paranormal activity can be many things ranging from clairvoyance
to unidentified flying objects.

They say it occurs often in everyday life, but is usually only
identified when people are open to this extra-physical activity.

Debra and Russell are the Central West Investigators for the
Australian UFO Research Network and are currently gathering
evidence on a number of UFO sightings around the region.

To hear more from Debra and Russell, click on the link below

http://www.abc.net.au/centralwest/stories/m904294.ram

(Audio in RealMedia format) - Requires RealPlayer








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                Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

From: Marie-Josee LaChance <marie-josee.lachance.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:40:29 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:36:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated


>From: Brenda Denzler <denzlerb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:09:01 -0400
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>To all,

>>I inform you of a study, just completed, by French former head
>>of GEPAN, Claude Poher, in favour of the oil well flames.

>>He intends to publish it soon in French, at the beginning
>>of August.

>>He has given me a copy privetely, and I must say that it looks
>>impresive, although I am not competent enough to judge it.

>>I hope he will also make it available in English.

>I can read French. Perhaps I can offer my services as a
>translator?

>My translation would have to be checked by someone else with
>better English-French skills than mine, but....

It would be no problem to either check your translation or
do it myself. I am used to translating from English to French
for a French website.

I would simply need to get in touch with M. POHER :)


Marie Josee LaChance









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              Alien Autopsy 'Expert' Charged With Felony Murder

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 06:16:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:15:34 -0400
Subject: Alien Autopsy 'Expert' Charged With Felony Murder


Out of the blue, I was contacted by by a reader of my work this
morning to point out to me, in terms of 'news', something about
a felony murder charge involving a individual formerly involved
with Bob Kiviat's "Alien Autopsy" Fox specials.

Apparently, Mr. Bob Shell served as an expert interviewee about
this matter. Below are two recent articles on the murder
charges, although they do not seem to know about his Roswell
interests - yet.

Bob Shell, from a quick online search, has been, in the past
linked to Bob Kiviat's television programming and has made
comments on his contributions

Those Kiviat "projects":

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/aafilm/shell.html
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/bshelli.html
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/bobshell.html

[The UFO UpDates Archive

 http://www.google.com/search?q=+Alien-Autopsy+UFO-UpDates+%22Bob+Shell+%22#=100
&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&as_qdr=all&filter=0

 --ebk]

Shell has updates on his defense at:

http://www.bobshell.com/update.html

and a Memorium to the deceased too:

http://www.bobshell.com/memoriam.html

Loren


+++++

Source: The Roanoke Times

http://search.roanoke.com/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll?cmd=getdoc&DocId=1286&Index=C%3a
%5cProgram%20Files%5cdtSearch%20Developer%5cUserData%5cRoanoke%2ecom&HitCount=6&
hits=11+12+35+36+1ea+1eb+&SearchForm=C%3a%5cInetpub%5csearch%2eroanoke%2ecom%5ci
ndex%5fform%2ehtml


Friday, June 11, 2004

Radford photographer to face trial in Jan.

Bob Shell is charged with felony murder in the death of his
studio manager and model.

By Paul Dellinger
The New River Current

RADFORD - The trial of veteran Radford photographer Bob Shell,
who is accused of murder in connection with the overdose death
of one of his models, has been set for January.

Circuit Judge Brett Geisler on Thursday scheduled jury selection
for Jan. 3, 2005, with the trial continuing for the rest of that
week and on Jan. 10 and 11 if necessary. Shell's case was
originally scheduled for trial in March, but both sides needed
more time to study laboratory evidence in the case, and it was
postponed indefinitely at that time. Shell waived his right to a
speedy trial.

"This is a very, very technical trial," Marc Small, Shell's
attorney, said Thursday. "The longer we have to get things
analyzed, the better it is for us."

Shell is charged with felony murder in the death of Marion
Elizabeth Franklin, 19, who was his studio manager and modeled
under the name Chloe Jennings. Franklin, who was from Boone,
N.C., died June 3, 2003, in Shell's photography studio in
Radford from an overdose of morphine.

The charge stems from prosecution claims that Shell contributed
to Franklin's death by providing drugs to her.

In addition to murder, Shell faces three charges of drug
distribution, four of defiling a corpse, one of attempted
forcible sodomy, one of attempted animate object penetration
and one of animate object penetration, all of which he denies.

He has admitted he and Franklin had consensual sex and she
stopped breathing as she napped afterward. The prosecution
contends Franklin would have been incapacitated before by
cocaine, morphine and other drugs in her system.

Radford Commonwealth's Attorney Randal Duncan said in April that
federal indictments may also be sought against Shell on homicide
and drug charges. However, they have not happened yet.

Duncan has since been appointed as a general district court
judge for the 27th Judicial District, and his assistant, Chris
Rehak, is interim city prosecutor. Rehak, a Democrat, will be
seeking the position in the Nov. 2 election along with
Republican Patrick Moore.

Shell was restricted to his home after posting a $75,000 bond
last summer. In March, Judge Geisler eased the house arrest
limits by allowing him to visit property he owns in Floyd County
for outdoor photography work; to go to stores in Radford and
Fairlawn for work-related needs; and take walks in the city,
recommended by his doctor.

++++

Source: The New River Current

http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv%5C6702.html


Friday, June 18, 2004

Radford photographer files motion for access to evidence

Bob Shell said he cannot prepare for his trial in the death of a
model without all the evidence from the commonwealth's
attorney's office.

By Shay Wessol


RADFORD - Radford photographer Bob Shell and his defense
attorney lashed out at authorities this week, asking the court
to dismiss the homicide, drug and sex charges against him and to
bring sanctions against the commonwealth's attorney's office.

At issue for Shell and attorney Marc Small is what they call
repeated and unanswered requests for evidence that authorities
must turn over to them before trial, now set for Jan. 3-10 in
Radford Circuit Court. Shell, 57, is charged with felony
homicide, three counts of defiling a corpse, attempted sodomy,
two counts of attempted animate object penetration and three
drug charges in connection with the overdose death of one of his
models, 19-year-old Marion Franklin of Boone, N.C.

Franklin died June 3, 2003, in Shell's photography studio in
downtown Radford from an overdose of morphine.

Authorities have accused Shell of providing the drugs to her.
Shell has denied any wrongdoing.

Small said he cannot prepare for trial without all the evidence
from the commonwealth's attorney's office. He said he hopes that
the motions, filed with the court earlier this week, prompt
authorities into turning over the needed photographs, lab
reports and other evidence.

"We're not really hoping to have the case dismissed but, of
course, that would be nice if that happened," Small said.

Prosecutors must give defense attorneys copies of any evidence
they plan to use at trial as well as any exculpatory evidence
that could show a person's innocence.

Commonwealth's Attorney Chris Rehak said he could not comment on
the matter. A hearing is set for July 6.

Small also filed motions to allow him and Shell access to
computers, cameras and other items police seized through search
warrants and to again relax Shell's bond restrictions.

Shell posted a $75,000 bond last summer but was also put under
house arrest. During the past year, Circuit Judge Brett Geisler
has gradually eased the conditions from complete house arrest to
now allowing Shell to travel as far away as property he owns in
Floyd County for his photography work.






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   Jun > Jun 22

               Press Release Regarding The Roswell Dig Diaries

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:13:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:20:17 -0400
Subject: Press Release Regarding The Roswell Dig Diaries


Now available in an original paperback.

SCI-FI Declassified:

The Roswell Dig Diaries

By Michael Mcavennie

The SCI FI Channel has signed a three-book deal with Pocket
Books for projects spun off from their original documentary
specials.

The first title will be SCI FI Declassified: The
Roswell Dig Diaries (Pocket Books; July 6, 2004; $14.95), based
on The SCI FI Channel's highest-rated original special, "The
Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence," which documented the
first groundbreaking archaeological excavation of the Roswell
crash site. SCI FI DECLASSIFIED: The Roswell Dig Diaries will
be released this summer, coinciding with the anniversary of the
Roswell incident, which occurred the first week in July 1947.

SCI FI DECLASSIFIED: The Roswell Dig Diaries will reveal never-
before-seen information about the 1947 crash at Roswell, and
will contain the first public release of the final
archaeological report on the landmark dig. The book also
contains a special foreword by New Mexico Governor Bill
Richardson.

The "Roswell Incident" has become one of the most enduring
mysteries in the history of Ufology and the SCI FI Channel
recently reopened the case and sponsored an onsite investigation
to search for the truth. Archaeologists from the University of
New Mexico, in partnership with The SCI FI Channel, set out to
uncover conclusive physical evidence to help prove whether the
claim of an extraterrestrial craft crash is science fiction or
science fact. UNM's final report and the personal journals,
written by everyone from the project leader, Dr. Bill Doleman,
to Roswell Report authors/investigators Thomas J. Carey and
Donald R. Schmitt, to SCI FI Channel Senior Vice President of
Programming Thomas Vitale is compiled here for the first time.

"Teaming up with the SCI FI Channel was a natural for us," said
Scott Shannon, VP & Associate Publisher, Pocket Books. "With
their groundbreaking documentary programming and award-winning
website (www.scifi.com) they have become one of the nation's
premiere clearinghouses for UFO information. We felt that
partnering with them to release this information to the public
was a wonderful idea."

"We are thrilled to be partnering with Pocket Books on the SCI
FI DECLASSIFIED book projects," said David Howe, SVP Marketing
of the SCI FI Channel. "These tie-in companions to our ongoing
franchise of investigatory specials will provide yet another
outlet for us to reach the public with the astounding facts
behind some of the most perplexing mysteries of our time."

#     #     #     #

SCI FI DECLASSIFIED is a SCI FI channel initiative to demystify
the place where science fiction meets science fact. From the
dangers of nanotechnology to extraterrestrial encounters, SCI FI
DECLASSIFIED will explore and champion the issues that confound
and confuse the human species. Through groundbreaking
documentary programming and advocacy-based public affairs
efforts, SCI FI will work to expand the contemporary definitions
of science fiction to include ideas, concepts, myths and legends
that simply cannot be explained.

About The Author:

Michael McAvennie is a freelance writer who lives with his wife
and family in New York City.


SCI FI Declassified: The Roswell Dig Diaries
Michael McAvennie
Publisher: Pocket Books Trade Paperback Original
Publication Date: July 6, 2004
Price: $14.95
ISBN: 0-7434-8612-9

Please visit us online at:

www.SimonSays.com.

If you wish to reproduce a photograph of the author and/or the
book jacket or cover, you can retrieve a high-resolution digital
file at:

http://resources.simonsays.com

Pocket Books is a division of Simon and Schuster, the publishing
operation of Viacom Inc.








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   Jun > Jun 22

             Wilburt Brockhouse Smith And The "Prime Directive"

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:40:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:34:15 -0400
Subject: Wilburt Brockhouse Smith And The "Prime Directive"


Ms. Wendy Connors raises the contributory bar on her newest
compilation of Ufological history, Again!

PROJECT MAGNET - Wilbert Brockhouse Smith And Canada's Search
For Flying Saucers, is her latest contribution to ufological
history rescued from the purposefully ignored and disintegrating
past. On this collection of vintage recordings we explore the
thinking of a hero of modern ufology that few have heard of and
many have forgotten. The irony is that he may be key to an
understanding... of the... highly strange 'matters' perceived
all around us.

W.B. Smith - Listen to him 'cold' and he was just another dodgy
bowl of strained ufological Fruit Loops. He even sounds a little
loopy. Indeed, he fairly snapped, crackled, and popped an oddly
unsettling litany of new sciences, encounters of seeming science
fiction, and alien philosophies... all in his eerily precise and
pedantic monotone...

He will, at first blush, not insure the confidence of the ardent
skeptibunky or even the interested fence sitter. His thinking on
UFOs 'seems' to embrace the now much lampooned contactee, the
"benevolent", "all wise", and "all knowing" aliens _not_ of this
Earth, plus a blood relation to them on top of all that! There
is even a tangential relationship to Billy Meier... (In the
philosophy of "Quadrature") Tough to swallow for the abused,
betrayed, and manipulated masses... But start swallowing, folks,
or choke.

Consider, given how far Smith strayed from the box of 'accepted'
thinking, how it might still be possible that we, one,
understand the "doctrine of non-interference (The Star Trek Prime
Directive)" as it is understood in the archetypes of popular
culture presently, two, are familiar with the evolved ethics
that would require its application (and predict that behavior
from sentient 'others'), and, three, gain the insight that is
inherited with the realization that current 21st Century
problems, presently endured, have their scurrilous roots in our
failure to employ the very precepts of same! W.B. Smith seems to
have been _first_ to reveal all those things to us, not Gene
Roddenberry. Fruit Loops? The cold reader, astonishingly enough,
would be the _only_ one to think so...

Dr. J. Allen Hynek - a ufologist's dean - in his very rational
and thoughtful book, The UFO Experience - A Scientific Inquiry,
made an interesting analogy which can be brought to bear on the
credibility, personal character, and veracity of W.B. Smith
despite how far off the wall he seemed to ricochet! Hynek
compared people to calibrated scientific instruments in his very
telling analogy and proved his logic, handily, in this thought
experiment... which makes perfect sense on reflection.

"In science", he wrote, "it is standard practice to calibrate
ones instruments. No astronomer, for instance, would accept
measures of the velocities of distant galaxies obtained by the
means of an un-calibrated spectrograph. However, if such an
instrument had given consistently good results in the past, had
frequently been tested and had not recently experienced any
jarring shocks, the observer would usually accept its results
without any further checking..."

Hynek continues, "...The parallel for us is, of course, obvious:
if our UFO reporter has, by his past actions and performance,
shown a high degree of reliability and responsibility and is
known to be stable and not 'out of adjustment', then we have no
a priori reason to distrust his coherent report, particularly
when it is given in concert with several other 'human
instruments,' also of acceptable reliability."

...Turns out? W.B. Smith was _just_ such an instrument, of
_just_ such a calibration, and of _just_ such a reliability.
He'd given consistently good results in the past, had been
frequently 'tested', and seemed resistant enough to jarring
shocks. Even if it is unwise to cease further checking, it may
be that his testimony has enough verity for follow-on
researchers to accept his observations... even if his
conclusions _are_ uncomfortable to the researcher. Smith was a
_good_ instrument.

Sure, he might have gone 'crazy'. But that's too quick a dodge
back to the unsettled coward's complacent comfort zone, folks.
Besides, there was no one that thought so _then_, and no one
(with any intellectual courage!) who thinks so _now_. It
_remains_, sir and madam, that he had it on _excellent_
authority that:

1. ...UFOs exist!

2. ...Their modus operandi is unknown, but concentrated effort
is being made by a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush - of
MJ-12 fame!

3. ...The matter of UFOs was the most highly classified subject
in the US - rating higher than the H-bomb!

4. ...The entire matter is considered by US authorities to be of
tremendous significance - points from a memo to Smith's chief in
November of 1950!

Moreover, there are other quality persons (even if unwilling to
embrace _all_ the implications and assertions of Mr. Smith)
abundantly convinced that there are films, notes, and hardware
extant _enough_ to justify a refined and concerted research into
the areas that Smith testified he'd been made aware of... by
aliens from space... not to put too fine a point on it. Listen
to Connors' _current_ forward thinking compilation to get an
intimation of what Smith may have been trying to tell us...
and...

...Did Wilburt Brockhouse Smith, in 1952 'invent' the "The Prime
Directive" as it's presently understood, that ethical non-
interference code against interference with an inferior or
immature culture? And if he did... how did he do it? He said he
got it from the aliens... as far as we're concerned (the proof
is there) the concept is his and not Gene Roddenberry's. Did
Roddenberry ever hear Smith, or meet him? Nothing against
Gene... with regard to art, the 'good' borrow, and the 'great'
steal. <g>.

Before this gets too long I want to mention one other notable
segment on the MP3 disc otherwise packed with notable segments!
It is with regard to a Track #16, The Great Debate: Major
Donald E. Keyhoe of the National Investigations Committee on
Aerial Phenomena, debating Col. William T. Coleman (former Chief
Air Force publicist), USAF via CBC in 1975... on the existence
of UFOs. One can easily predict who argued which side.

Keyhoe, as measured by the attending audience, 'lost' that
debate. ...But _did_ he!

Yes, Keyho 'loses' the 'straight-up' debate, a skeptibunky would
strut and crow, _even_ as a sizable majority of the studio
audience remains convinced (at the end of the program) that UFOs
are real _and_ extraterrestrial at the program's denouement.

...But, a 'Win' or a 'Loss' in a formal debate makes certain
presumptions on the process of its exercise, reader! The
presumption is that both men are forthcoming, have no ulterior
axes to grind and are articulating the truth as they know it.
The presumption is that both men are brave and both are going
where the data leads. The presumption is that they both follow
the same efficacious rules and not use technique and verbal
slight of hand to win an honorable contest. The presumption is
that the participants are not lying in so far as they know it,
and are not otherwise selling their points or basing their
premises on untruth and obfuscation! It's bona fide debate...
or it's the United States Congress. There is no middle ground.
This is the presumption!

Given what we now know decades into the future regarding the
verity of Colonel Coleman's support points and his baldly
convenient and institution-serving assessment of them, can those
assumptions be made about Major Keyhoe and his opponent,
presently? Who _really_ won that debate, truth be known, and how
much skeptibunky strutting and crowing is truly justified?
Precious _little_ this reviewer suspects.

Listen to the debate yourself contained in Connors' cunning
compilation, and with thirty-plus years of 20/20 hindsight see
if _you_ can determine who was being the most logical and
forthcoming and who employed logical fallacy and duplicity -
lied (to cut to the chase) to make their points. Come to your
own conclusion.

Also on Connors MP3 disc are companion tracks in support of the
concepts suggested to the rest of us by W. B. Smith. Included
are his son James on a recent interview via Strange Days...
Indeed out of Toronto. RAdm. Herbert B. Knowles discusses the
examination by Smith of a piece of supposed alien hardware.
Robert Beck provides testimony on an ongoing Project Magnet
effort long thought cancelled. Robert Groves discusses the
strange theories of "Quadrature", the new science revealed by
Smith in a serious interview by Earl J. Neff. Lastly, Dr. J.
Allen Hynek talks openly during his interview with a first
officer of Canadian Pacific Airlines who describes his encounter
with a UFO. All the tracks have a tendency to raise neck hair.
These were smart serious people and they thought there was
something to it.

Six hours plus of very compelling discussion and testimony await
the listener on Connors' stunning compilation. She does not
disappoint. I've listened to a few of the Smith tracks _more_
than a few times and drawn something new away, every time.
Fascinating stuff? Revealing stuff! Convincing stuff? Inspiring
stuff!

Find more information on Wendy Connors' compilations of solid
UFO history... at:

http://www.fadeddiscs.com/projmag.html

Read on!

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Jun > Jun 22

               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:32:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:55:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Brenda Denzler <denzlerb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:09:01 -0400
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>I inform you of a study, just completed, by French former head
>>of GEPAN, Claude Poher, in favour of the oil well flames.

>>He intends to publish it soon in French, at the beginning
>>of August.

>>He has given me a copy privetely, and I must say that it looks
>>impresive, although I am not competent enough to judge it.

>>I hope he will also make it available in English.

>I can read French. Perhaps I can offer my services as a
>translator?

>My translation would have to be checked by someone else with
>better English-French skills than mine, but....


Brenda,

Thank you for your offer. I am glad to transmit it to Claude
Poher.


Gildas Bourdais








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   Jun > Jun 22

               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:29:23 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:58:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:41:24 -0400
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

<snip>

>>I inform you of a study, just completed, by French former head of
>>GEPAN, Claude Poher, in favour of the oil well flames.

>>He intends to publish it soon in French, at the beginning of August.

>>He has given me a copy privetely, and I must say that it looks
>>impresive, although I am not competent enough to judge it.

>>I hope he will also make it available in English.

>>One argument is that the FLIR was not well calibrated for the
>>elevation. He could measure that thanks to images of the rising
>>Moon at the end of the FLIR video. Also, he calculates that the
>>FLIR images had to be those of distant objects.

>>As for the radar returns, the first ones would be from a plane
>>getting away and accelerating, and the ones at the end could be
>>from a vehicle on the road, as Brad Sparks has already
>>suggested.

>>Let's hope that the test flight by the Mexican Air Force will
>>clarify all this. For my part, I will also wait for the
>>conclusion of Bruce Maccabee.

>Thanks for that information, Gildas.

>Now, does any one of you out there know the scan rate of the
>FLIR? If so, I'd appreciate knowing it.

>I ask that because although visible gas burning by oil well
>operations and refineries would appear to the human eye as
>flickering and wavering, etc., unlike the rather steady images
>we see in infrared in the FLIR images, one might justifiably
>wonder whether a slow scan rate (thus combining wavering of the
>source into a more stable-looking image) plus, perhaps, light
>scattering of infrared through clouds or a highly moist
>atmosphere might cause resultant FLIR images of gas-burning
>flames to look far more steady than one notices in the visible
>range via the human eye-brain system in direct view of such
>flames.

Ray and All

All I can do is send a copy of your message to Claude Poher and
allow him to answer you directly if he wishes to.

Yes, I quite agree with you that we have to be careful not to
jump too fast to conclusions. I was myself quite enthusiastic at
the beginning, but I prefer now to wait for more information. In
France, we have so many skeptics, ready to shoot all the time...


Gildas







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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:36:56 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:59:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:07:12 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated


Brad,

Thank you for your detailed response, but I am not able to
participate in that technical discussion.

I can just send it to Poher in case he would wish to respond.

Gildas









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   Jun > Jun 22

               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:59:38 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:01:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Marie-Josee LaChance <marie-josee.lachance.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:40:29 +0200
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Brenda Denzler <denzlerb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:09:01 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>>To all,

>>>I inform you of a study, just completed, by French former head
>>>of GEPAN, Claude Poher, in favour of the oil well flames.

>>>He intends to publish it soon in French, at the beginning
>>>of August.

>>>He has given me a copy privetely, and I must say that it looks
>>>impresive, although I am not competent enough to judge it.

>>>I hope he will also make it available in English.

>>I can read French. Perhaps I can offer my services as a
>>translator?

>>My translation would have to be checked by someone else with
>>better English-French skills than mine, but....

>It would be no problem to either check your translation or
>do it myself. I am used to translating from English to French
>for a French website.

>I would simply need to get in touch with M. POHER :)


Thank you for your offer, again. I am transfering it to Claude
Poher.

Gildas Bourdais








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   Jun > Jun 22

                           Secrecy News - 06/22/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:13:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:05:02 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News - 06/22/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 58
June 22, 2004


**      HPSCI: INADEQUATE HUMINT TAKING CIA "OVER A CLIFF"
**      COURT-IMPOSED SECRECY IN JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS
**      SECRECY NEWS VIA RSS


HPSCI: INADEQUATE HUMINT TAKING CIA "OVER A CLIFF"

Human intelligence (HUMINT) collection at the Central
Intelligence Agency remains completely inadequate and as a
result the Agency is heading "over a proverbial cliff," the
House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI) warned
in a volatile new report.

"After years of trying to convince, suggest, urge, entice,
cajole, and pressure CIA to make wide-reaching changes to the
way it conducts its HUMINT mission..., CIA, in the Committee's
view, continues down a road leading over a proverbial cliff,"
the Committee said in its report on the 2005 intelligence
authorization act.

"The damage to the HUMINT mission through its misallocation and
redirection of resources, poor prioritization of objectives,
micromanagement of field operations, and a continued political
aversion to operational risk is, in the Committee's judgment,
significant and could likely be long-lasting."

"Immediate and far-reaching changes can still reverse some of
the worst factors eroding its capabilities, however. If the CIA
continues to ignore the experience of many of its best,
brightest, and most experienced officers, and continues to
equate criticism from within and without - especially from its
oversight committees - as commentary unworthy even of
consideration, no matter how constructive, informed, and well-
 meaning that criticism may be, they do so at their peril."

The substance of the Committee's critique of CIA HUMINT and its
proposed reforms were not further specified in the unclassified
report.

But proposals for more "nimble" HUMINT operations often entail
diminished oversight, accountability and respect for norms of
moral behavior.

The authorization report notes that resources for intelligence
have "increased dramatically" since September 11, 2001, and the
Committee authorizes a "substantial enhancement" in 2005 for
intelligence in the global war on terrorism.

Also noteworthy is what is not in the bill. According to news
reports, the Committee had been considering provisions to expand
the scope of the USA Patriot Act and the authority of the
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. An exceptionally
diverse group of organizations coordinated by the ACLU wrote to
the Committee arguing against adoption of the provisions and
they were in fact not adopted.

Meanwhile, the Committee itself has fractured along partisan
lines. The Republican majority rejected all Democratic
amendments because, it said, they "added nothing helpful to the
bill." And the Democratic minority then voted against the
Committee markup.

"For the first time in at least ten years there were dissenting
votes as the bill was reported from Committee," the report
notes. "And not just a few."

See the new HPSCI report on intelligence authorization for 2005,
June 21, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_rpt/h108-558.html


COURT-IMPOSED SECRECY IN JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS

The sealing of court records in litigation, which has long been
a subject of controversy, is critically examined in a recent law
review article that argues for reform of judicial secrecy
policy.

"Despite the best arguments of those who justify the customary
granting of protective orders on the grounds of economic
efficiency and the limited capacities of the dockets, it has
become apparent that blindly sealing court records without
regard to legitimate public interests has undesirable and
sometimes tragic consequences. When courts act, as they
habitually do, as active agents in the suppression of
information that could otherwise save lives, the integrity of
the judicial system must be called into question."

See "The Pervasive Problem of Court-Sanctioned Secrecy and the
Exigency of National Reform" by David S. Sanson, Duke Law
Journal, November 2003, newly available online here:

http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?53+Duke+L.+J.+807


SECRECY NEWS VIA RSS

Readers who use a news aggregator to monitor web logs can now
subscribe to an RSS feed for Secrecy News (thanks to DG for
technical assistance) here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

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_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 22

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 25

From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:41:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:08:47 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 25


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 25
June 23, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


"HOLLYWOOD HEADHUNTER"
TERRORIZES LOS ANGELES

      "The search was on Monday," June 14, 2004, "for a man
who decapitated a 92-year-old former screenwriter and
slaughtered a retired doctor in his 60s in their Hollywood
homes, authorities said."
      "One of the victims was identified as Robert Lees, a
blacklisted screenwriter who penned numerous movie and TV
scripts, including several Bud Abbott and Lou Costello
movies like Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein."
      "Police believe a suspect, described only as a white
man in his 40s, entered Lees' home in the 1600 block of
North Courtney Avenue and cut off the screenwriter's head
sometime before 11 a.m. Sunday," June 13, 2004.
      "Reports stated that the killer took Lees' head and
jumped a backyard fence before entering the retired
doctor's home in the 1600 block of North Stanley Avenue."
      "At the time, the doctor was on the phone 'making
plane reservations through Southwest Airlines,' LAPD Lt.
Art Miller said, 'While he was talking with the operator,
making those reservations, the operator heard a commotion
in the background and then the phone go dead.'"
      "The ticket clerk called police, who discovered the
doctor's body and Lees' head in the home, according to
reports."
      "The suspect apparently fled in the doctor's 2001
Mercedes, which was found a short time later in Hollywood,
police said."
      "Lees, who sometimes wrote under the name J.E. Selby,
was blacklisted during the Red Scare of the 1950s."
      "His other credits include the TV shows Rawhide and
Alfred Hitchcock Presents and the movies The Black Cat and
Holiday in Havana, starring Desi Arnaz.  He wrote many of
his screenplays from the 1930s through the 1960s."
(Editor's Note:  Curiously, in his autobiography, Desi
Arnaz describes how he saw a man decapitated with a
machete in Cuba when, as a teenager, his family fled
Havana during the revolution of 1933.)
      "It was 'a very gruesome crime scene, each one of
them, so much so that at the time it's hard to determine
what the cause of death was,' Miller said."
      "Police had no motive for the murders."
      The paranormal was a persistent theme in Lees' work.
His other movie credits include Abbott and Costello Meet
the Invisible Man, The Invisible Woman, Hold That Ghost
and, as "J.E. Selby," the pilots for two 1960s television
shows, Irwin Allen's Land of the Giants and The Second
Hundred Years.
      The case took a strange turn when a suspect was
arrested at Paramount Studios in Hollywood.
      "Police tipped by Hollywood studio guards captured a
man whom they had just identified Monday," June 14, 2004,
"as a suspect in the beheading of a 92-year-old
screenwriter and the stabbing death of a neighbor in the
midst of a phone call with an airline reservation agent."
      "Keven Lee Graff, 27, was arrested near the gates of
Paramount Studios, about two miles (3 kilometers) from the
victims' homes, after he was recognized by a studio guard.
The guard recognized Graff's picture from a televised news
conference that had just aired, and his superior called
police, said Police Chief William Blatton."
      "Police found the body of retired physician Morley
Hal Engleson, 67, on Sunday," June 13, 2004, "after the
airline ticketing agent called police and reported hearing
a commotion break out while he was trying to book a flight
on the phone."
      "In the rear of Engleson's home, they found the head
of 92-year-old Robert Lees, a screenwriter who had worked
on films, including Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein.
A friend who had gone to check on Lees found his body in
his house, which is a street over behind Engleson's."
      "'This is one of the most horrendous crime scenes
that I have seen during my 33 years as a police officer in
this city,' said Detective Brian Tyndall, one of the lead
investigators in the case."
      "Graff had walked into the studio and asked for the
phone number of a Paramount employee when a guard
confronted him, said security Sgt. Craig Phillips.  Graff
acted strangely after leaving the lot, talking to himself
and making obscene gestures at passing cars, and guards
decided to keep their surveillance cameras trained on him,
Phillips said."
      "Minutes later, the news conference was shown on the
television in the guards' break room.  'I saw it, and I
said, 'That looks a lot like the guy I've got on camera,'
Phillips said."
      "Graff was arrested without incident, Bratton said."
      "Police did not find a weapon on him, and it is not
yet determined whether he knew the victims."
      "Graff, of Orange County (California), is known to
frequent the Hollywood area.  He was arrested last year in
Orange County for failing to pay a fine for a carpool
violation and has a half-dozen minor criminal violations,
according to police and court records."
      "In addition to Lees' paranormal-themed work, such as
writing for Alfred Hitchcock Presents (which featured a
memorable episode about decapitation), there are some odd
links to Freemasonry in this case," UFO Roundup editor
Joseph Trainor said, "The killer jumping the fence with
the victim's head is a scene straight out of Never Bet the
Devil Your Head, a short story by Edgar Allan Poe.  Then
there's the mysterious business about the number 1600."
      "Lees lived in the 1600 block of North Courtney
Avenue."
      "Engleson lived in the 1600 block of North Stanley
Avenue."
      "The so-called 'Masonic' Egyptian obelisk in New York
City's Central Park was first erected by Pharaoh Thotmes
III in 1,600 B.C.  (See the feature story in this issue--
J.T.)."
      "And, of course, the White House is at 1600
Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, D.C."  (See the Los
Angeles Times for June 14, 2004, "Police investigate
double Hollywood homicide," and the Channel 10 News of
Providence, R.I. for June 15, 2004.  Many thanks to Loren
Coleman, Mary Lou Jones-Drown and Tiffany Burton for these
news stories.)


OBLONG UFO HOVERS OVER
PAIR IN WINNIPEG, CANADA

      "Two people were delivering early-morning newspapers
in south-central Winnipeg (population 618,477)," the
capital of Canada's Manitoba province, "when they saw a
bright light moving in the sky, apparently approaching
them.  As they were placing newspapers in individual
(vending) boxes, the witnesses were shocked to see the
object noiselessly fly over their car and come to a stop,
hovering only 'three or four stories high' above them.  As
they dropped their papers, the object 'shot off to the
west' and disappeared from sight."
      The incident took place on Tuesday, June 8, 2004,
according to Canadian ufologist Chris Rutkowski.
      "The two witnesses quickly got in their car and drove
away to another newspaper box less than a kilometer away.
As they delivered their next bundle, they were terrified
to see an 'oblong' object with white lights moving around
its middle rise up from the ground from behind a heavily-
treed area and begin to fly towards them."
      "'It was definitely not a plane or anything else,'
one witness explained, 'I saw it very clearly, and it was
something very strange.'"
      "The object made no noise as it swooped over their
car.  In fact, the witness noticed that their surroundings
had taken on very eerie character, as there were no other
cars on the streets, and not even a single pedestrian
walking a dog."
      "'Usually we see some sporadic traffic, even at this
hour,' a witness said, 'But there was absolutely no one
around at all.  It was like a ghost town in the middle of
the city.'"
      "They drove and parked their car at an all-night
coffee shop and ran into the store as the object flew over
the building.  They convinced the proprietor to go outside
with them and take a look, but when they came out, the
object had retreated and was only a bright light in the
distance.  After a short while, the two original witnesses
calmed down and continued on their rounds."
      "About an hour later, as they were delivering more
papers, they looked up to see 'a strange plane' with no
(cockpit) windows fly slowly overhead, making an odd
whining noise.  They saw two more unusual aircraft flying
in the sky, and then 'suddenly, everything changed and
there were cars around, people walking and ordinary planes
were flying over us.'"
      "The witnesses were very frightened by their
experience and could not sleep well during the day after
their night shift."  (Many thanks to Chris Rutkowski for
this news story.)


FIVE UFOs SPOTTED OVER
EMLEY MOOR, UK

      "Strange flying objects have been spotted in the
skies above Emley Moor."
      "What appears to be five objects flying in perfect
formation were seen by Examiner readers about 3 p.m.
yesterday," i.e. Tuesday, June 16, 2004.
      "The Red Arrows-type flyby of Emley Moor Mast is so
far unexplained.  There were no reports of airshows in the
area yesterday afternoon."
      "And Moldgreen reader Mark Windle, who took the
photo, said: 'It looked to me as though they were objects
that were burning up in the atmosphere.  There was another
plane in the sky, and it looked different.'"
      "Another onlooker said that as soon as she saw the
lights she went to get her camera."
      "But the objects were travelling fast, and by the
time she returned with her camera, they had disappeared."
      "'We normally have planes flying past, but not in
such regular formation,' she said, 'It was very strange.'"
(See the Huddersfield Daily Examiner for June 16, 2004,
"Caught on film--five UFOs in the skies above Emley Moor."
Many thanks to Robert Fischer and John Hayes for this
newspaper story.)


SLOVAKIA HOLDS EXHIBITION
ON CROP CIRCLES

      "The Slovak National Museum in Bratislava," the
capital of the central European nation of Slovakia,
"recently opened an exhibition entitled Crop Circles,
displaying the pictograms and agro-symbols that
unidentified flying objects have left on Slovakian
territory."
      "According to the exhibition's organisers, witnesses
have seen round, disk-shaped UFO objects at the site of 85
percent of crop circles here" in Slovakia, "as well as
abroad."
      "The exhibition displays all the pictograms from
Slovakia that have been registered by the Trnava UFO Club.
'There might have been more, but we had no information on
those,' said Miroslav Karl, the club's chairman."
      "The Trnava club has registered nine locations where
crop circles have appeared, and 178 reports on UFO
observations in the Trnava region between 1992 and 2003.
Captured on videocassette also is an image by amateurs,
the display also features photography from the Bratislava
region."
      "Another part of the exhibition presents cases of
pictograms from England in the areas of Stonehenge,
Crabwood and Chilbolton.  The country is famous for its
large number of (crop) formations.  Since the beginning of
the 1990s, around 300 pictograms have been found there (in
UK) annually."
      "The exhibition will end July 25 (2004).  The museum
is located at Vajansk ho nabrozie 2" in Bratislava.  (Many
thanks to Zuzana Habsudova and Robert Fischer for this
newspaper report.)


TWO CROP CIRCLES
REPORTED IN BELGIUM

      On Saturday, May 22, 2004, Filip van Droogenbroeck
reported, "I took the train to Brussels," the capital of
Belgium, "and I was looking outside the window when I
noticed two vague circular formations in the field.  The
next day, when I went back home, I decided to search for
them.  I took the bus and got off where I thought I saw
the circles.  When I got off the bus, I had this euphoric
feeling.  But I wasn't sure if the circles were really
there or if I had just had 'an hallucination' because of
the speed of the train.  I didn't find them, so I went
home a little disappointed."
      "On (Friday) May 28 (2004), I went to the library in
Brussels.  When the train passed" the spot again, "I
clearly saw the circles, and I realised that I'd been
searching in the wrong place the previous week."
      Filip and his girlfriend decided to visit the spot.
"When we were in the circle, my legs felt like 'elastics
made from rubber,' a kind of feeling that I was 'falling'
through the ground when I walked around.  The lay of the
crop looked a little messy, and many plants were broken,
and there was a path to the crop circle from the other
side.  So this had to be some people who had already
visited them, and there live a lot of children in the
neighbourhood."
      "There were two big circles, one big one with a near
oval shape and another one that had a vague star shape.
But I'm not sure because it's hard to see from the ground.
The circles were there for at least a week, and some
downed plants were coming up again."
      Filip mentioned one strange incident relating to the
crop circles.  "The night before" his trip on "May 22, I
had a dream about crop circles.  I was watching with my
girlfriend from an airplane or a train, and I saw a lot of
crop circles on the ground."
      The unusual dream "made it more fun to see crop
circles from the train the following day.  I have no idea
if this is the real one or a hoax.  It's the first crop
circle that I've ever seen."  (Merci beaucoup a Filip van
Droogenbroeck pour cette histoire.)


BIGFOOT SIGHTED NEAR
TESLIN IN THE YUKON

      Two men riding an all-terrain vehicle (ATV) on the
outskirts of Teslin (population 189), a small town in
Canada's Yukon province, spotted a Bigfoot by the side of
the road.
      "Whatever two Teslin residents saw in the early
morning mist, conservation officer Dave Bakica knows it
shook them up."
      "Marion Sheldon and Gus Jules were travelling out of
town along the Alaska Highway on an ATV, sometimes after 1
a.m. last Sunday," June 6, 2004, "when they passed what
resembled a person standing on the side of the highway."
      "Thinking it was a local from their small community
who might be in need of a ride, they turned and headed
back, Mr. Bakica explained in an interview Tuesday," June
8, 2004, "recalling his conversation with the pair."
      "After the two lifelong Teslin residents and members
of the Teslin Tlingit (indigenous people of the Yukon--
J.T.) Council approached to within 6 meters (20 feet),
they noticed the figure was covered in hair but standing
upright the entire time.  Though the northern natural
light was dusky at this time of the morning, Mr. Jules
told Mr. Bakica he saw what he believed to be flesh tones
hidden beneath a mat of hair."
      "'I have no doubt they saw something, and are
convinced it was not a bear or anything in the ordinary,'
the conservation officer said, 'They are convinced this is
something out of the ordinary.  And they are pretty shaken
up over it.'"
      "Mr. Sheldon and Mr. Jules were unavailable for
comment."
      "Mr. Bakica said Mr. Jules is an experienced hunter.
He described the figure as standing about 7 feet (2.2
meters) tall but hunched over.  They could see it was not
a person."
      "The dark-haired figure departed, taking two or three
steps to cross the Alaska Highway."
      "Mr. Bakica, who has been checking out the story,
said ground conditions, mixed with a few rainfalls, made
it impossible to pick up any remnants of definite tracks,
and there was no hair on branches or the like to be
found."
      "As well, he said by the time he'd talked to Mr.
Sheldon last and went to the scene Monday morning," June
7, 2004, "half the town had been out to the site to have a
look for themselves."
      "'I have no doubt in my mind that they believe what
they saw was a Sasquatch (Canadian name for Bigfoot--
J.T.),' said Mr. Bokica."
      "'Whether it was or not, I do not know.  Just because
you can't prove something was there, does not mean it was
not there.'"
      "In April 1991, three Pelly Crossing residents
reported seeing a Sasquatch while driving between Pelly
and Stewart Crossing.  The creature fled back into the
woods as the vehicle passed, but the three took pictures
of what they claimed were footprints measuring 37.5
centimeters (15 inches) long in the melting snow."  (See
the Canadian newspaper Globe and Mail for June 9, 2004,
"Potential passenger a Sasquatch, pair say."  Many thanks
to Robert Fischer for forwarding this newspaper article.)


27,000 PELICANS VANISH
FROM NORTH DAKOTA LAKE

      "Wildlife officials estimate nearly 27,000 American
white pelicans have abandoned their summer nesting grounds
at a national wildlife refuge north of Medina, North
Dakota (population 335).  The question is why...and where
they went."
      "'It's like they packed up and left in the middle of
the night--except they didn't pack up, they just left,'
said Ken Torkelson, a spokesman for the U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service in Bismarck," the state capital.
      "Left behind were thousands of eggs, which are
unlikely to hatch, officials say."
      "The Chase Lake National Wildlife Refuge is the home
of the largest nesting colony of white pelicans in North
America.  The birds were noticed missing two weeks ago,
said Kim Hanson, refuge manager of the Arrowhead complex,
which includes Chase Lake."
      "'We don't think they were killed.  We think they
abandoned their nest,' Hanson said Wednesday," June 16,
2004.
      "Officials suspect some kind of disturbance--human or
animal--because some of the remaining birds appear more
skittish than normal, Hanson said."
      "The pelicans nest on Chase Lake's two islands, and,
for the past decade, they also have built a colony on a
peninsula on the side of the lake as their numbers
increased.  Wildlife officials say about 80 pelicans are
left on the peninsula and on one of the islands.  The
other island has seen no major population loss and still
has about 2,400 birds."  (See the Ashland, Wis. Daily
Press for June 10, 2004, "Officials probe pelican
disappearance," page 3.)
(Editor's Comment:  Well, something is sure disrupting
avian migration on North America's Central Flyway.  But
what?  It's articles like this one that make you wonder
about imminent climate change.)


FAYETTE FATALITIES
CONTINUE TO MOUNT

      The Fayette Factor took a break from weather
disasters last week.  But odd fatalities in areas of the
USA named for the Marquis de Lafayette continued to occur.
      "Jeremy Ryan Marshall was trying to get away from
police.  It ended up getting him killed."
      "Marshall, 23 years old, was shot and killed by a
Tennessee Highway Patrol officer Sunday evening," June 13,
2004.
      "It happened on Highway 10 just north of Lafayette
(population 3,885) in Macon County."
      "Police aren't releasing much information, but
Marshall's family says he was on probation and had a
suspended license."
      "They feel that he was only trying to get away."
      "'I seen the cop shoot, fire, and the guy dropped in
a field,' said Wayne Taylor, who lives right next to where
the shooting happened.  'And then I seen them jerk the
girl out of the car, and took he away in an ambulance.'"
      "'There was no reason to shoot him,' said Cindy
Marshall, the victim's aunt.  'The only reason he would
run is because he didn't have a license, but this was no
reason to shoot him.'"
      "As of Sunday evening, police have not revealed their
version of what happened."
      "Tennessee Highway Patrol did say there was a high-
speed chase, then shots were fired."
      "However, witnesses say they only heard one shot."
      "THP would not say if they believe Marshall was
shooting back at the patrolman."
      "One witness said the patrolman never told Marshall
to stop.  Another witness said he thought he heard the
patrolman yell for him to stop."
      "Marshall died at the scene.  He leaves behind a 3-
year-old son."
      "His girlfriend, who was in the car with him, was
taken to jail."
      More teenagers were killed in a bizarre traffic
accident, this time in Fayette County, Pennsylvania, an
area which has experienced a high incidence of paranormal
events since March 2004.
      "Two teenagers died when their all-terrain vehicle
(ATV) collided with a pickup truck Monday," June 14,
2004."  The accident took place in Bullskin Township,
Pennsylvania.
      In Lousiana, "Lafayette police have arrested a man
and his son after a weekend melee that ended with a third
man being shot."  (See the WTVF Channel 15 news broadcast
from Nashville, Tenn. for June 14, 2004; the Pittsburgh
Channel news broadcast for June 14, 2004; and the KATC
broadcast from Lafayette, La. for June 14, 2004.  Many
thanks to Loren Coleman for these news stories.)


WRONG RIVER IN TEMUCO

      Rodrigo Alarcon writes, "I have read with interest
your article enclosed in the UFO Roundup, volume 9, number
24 regarding the small alien in Temuco (Chile)."
      "Can I please point out a small mistake in the
article where it says that the river near Temuco is the
'Rio Mapacho?'  This is not true, as the Rio Mapacho is
the river that passes through Santiago, the capital of
Chile, and it is approximately 600 kilometers (360 miles)
north of Temuco."


      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes
home--UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 22

             Re: Man Finds Tough Sell For His 'UFO Discovery' -

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:07:37 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:15:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Man Finds Tough Sell For His 'UFO Discovery' -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 07:48:00 -0700
>Subject: Man Finds Tough Sell For His 'UFO Discovery'

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001961735_ufo22.html

>"This," White said, "is the most difficult thing I've ever
>done in my life."

<snip>

>The odds are stacked against him. He and his partner at the
>museum, Robert Gibbons, have been rejected and ridiculed.
>White estimates he has spent more than $60,000 traveling to
>conferences, starting the museum, having the artifact tested
>and retested.

<snip>

>"The metallurgical analysis was pretty mundane," said Colm
>Kelleher, a scientist at the National Institute for Discovery
>Science.

<snip>

>"We didn't find any evidence that it was extraterrestrial. Now
>you can make the argument that we didn't spend $1 million and
>look at every conceivable option. We didn't cover every base."

>Another scientist who tested it at a California laboratory and
>who asked that his name and that of the laboratory not be used
>said, "It didn't show any extraterrestrial signature."

Hello List,

That's sad, not just for Bob White but for all independent
thinkers.

Folk shouldn't be crawling to ignorant so-called scientists for
"proof" of something or other.

Why? Because it's like asking the media for impartiality, a
lawyer for honesty or a politician for integrity.

Look at those two quotes "we didn't cover every base" and "it
didn't show any extraterrestrial signature."

Neither scientist could possibly recognize an "extraterrestrial
signature" if it bit them on the backside - because we don't
_know_ any extraterrestrial signatures (apart from some system
asteroids & comets).

[And there would be _no_ [unknown] "extraterrestrial signature"
in extraterrestrial material made in a mundane manner, especially
if it were a waste product or "exhaust".]

Forget `mainstream science' - it doesn't even know for sure
what's happening down here on Earth ("blind science" - Google).
We have to do it ourselves, and the important details are a) the
people, b) the circumstances, c) the observations.


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 22

                      Are Ufologists Getting Too Close?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:13:46 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:17:25 -0400
Subject: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close?


With events of recent and with media chatter do you think
Ufologists are getting 'too close for comfort?'

In my situation I disclosed a UFO event some 18 years ago.
Little by little more data and fortunately more witnesses have
come to the fore. Suddenly I started getting chatter about 'top
secret' stuff and "Those boomerangs and triangles are ours."

With the Mexican event still being analyzed and the data
collecting and processing being done professionally, do you
think the powers that be are getting a wee bit nervous?

Anyone notice email, website or phone problems at all?

Any 'strange' visitors out and about?

With the recent major mainstream news scandals of late ( see
Editor & Publisher's website regarding the circulation scandal )
do we see the tide turning for once?

The media has always been used to attack the credibility of
UFOlogists, witnesses, whistleblowers, yet with the NY Times,
Gannett both exposed as violating the most precious of
journalistic privileges and responsibilities, who is the
guardian of what is credible?

They've got to be held to the standard they impose on UFOlogists
and the like.

Again, the biggest suprise to me as a UFOlogist is the ever
growing data regarding vindictive character assassination and
use of the threat of mental instability charges and
incarcerations against witnesses, whistleblowers, abductees. I
recently talked to a couple of long standing award winning
journalists who were stunned at the data I provided. They've
done just cursory glances at the problem and agree
wholeheartedly that the issue is long overdue for exposure. Not
just the victims in the UFO arena but the public at large.

As I've said before, 'insanity' has been redefined as 'Anything
anyone does or says that is in disagreement with the status
quo.'

Keep watching the skies, but you'ld be better off watching your
backs.

On the bright side though, there's an army of attornies who are
asking for more info. Seems medical abuse and civil rights
violations are at the top of their plate suddenly.


Best,

Greg









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   Jun > Jun 22

                              Corrado Balducci?

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:34:57 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:20:54 -0400
Subject: Corrado Balducci?


Dear Friends,

I need Mons. Conrado Balducci=B4s e-mail to invite him for a
Brazilian congress. Can anyone help me?


Regards







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               Re: Alien Autopsy 'Expert' Charged With Felony

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:59:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:22:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy 'Expert' Charged With Felony


>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 06:16:28 -0400
>Subject: Alien Autopsy 'Expert' Charged With Felony Murder

>Out of the blue, I was contacted by by a reader of my work this
>morning to point out to me, in terms of 'news', something about
>a felony murder charge involving a individual formerly involved
>with Bob Kiviat's "Alien Autopsy" Fox specials.

>Apparently, Mr. Bob Shell served as an expert interviewee about
>this matter. Below are two recent articles on the murder
>charges, although they do not seem to know about his Roswell
>interests - yet.

<snip>

It's this kind of thing that gives 'Shell' a bad name.








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                Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:27:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:46:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Clark


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:13:46 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close?


>With events of recent and with media chatter do you think
>Ufologists are getting 'too close for comfort?'

No.

>With the Mexican event still being analyzed and the data
>collecting and processing being done professionally, do you
>think the powers that be are getting a wee bit nervous?

No.

>Anyone notice email, website or phone problems at all?

No.

>Any 'strange' visitors out and about?

No.

>With the recent major mainstream news scandals of late ( see
>Editor & Publisher's website regarding the circulation scandal )
>do we see the tide turning for once?

No.

>As I've said before, 'insanity' has been redefined as 'Anything
>anyone does or says that is in disagreement with the status
>quo.'

>Keep watching the skies, but you'ld be better off watching your
>backs.

Only if you're a paranoid with too much time on your hands.

Jerry Clark








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   Jun > Jun 23

               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:58:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 06:34:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:41:24 -0400
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:50 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>As I have stated in each of my postings on this, it is likely
>NOT the 'smoking gun' case some all too quickly declared it.

>I closed in my last postbefore this by saying, "Certainly
>Maussan has, in public declarations, excitedly 'inflated' this
>case far beyond its real value."

>Well, perhaps the real value of the Campeche case may be to
>teach UFO enthusiasts not to jump up and down, shouting with
>enthusiasm, unless or until the jury returns with a favorable
>verdict.


Mr. Stanford,

I would like to clearify this point just to avoid any further
confusion with this issue. What we proclaim and sustain is the
fact that our Mexican military under our Secretary of Defense
opened their doors and granted the UFO disclosure to the Mexican
people.

This is our real valuable goal with this case, the historic
precedent that changed history here in Mexico, the long awaited
response to our ufologic crusade for years. Yes we are proud,
enthused, excited, honored, motivated etc. by this historic
change in our society.

The Campeche case served perfectly as the link that made posible
the establishment of a direct communication with our military
and goverment representatives to work, discuss and research all
the issues related to an undeniable phenomena that has taken
place in Mexico for over a decade with an intensity like no
other country in the world.

As I have been mentioning the footage was just the vehicle, the
instrument needed for this trascendental meassure to be taken by
the SEDENA. The footage for us certainly constitutes the perfect
evidence taken at the exact time and the exact place. Destiny
set all the elements on March 5, 2004 for the change to be made.
History has been written for us in Mexico.

Of course we don't expect you or the rest of our collagues
outside Mexico to understand or share our feelings. It's almost
imposible due to the great diferences in our cultures, it's a
matter of barriers among language, traditions, beliefs etc. in a
single word: Culture.

However the Campeche case also serves as an interesting social
example in other countries. We were expecting a wide variety
of reactions from the media, ufologists, scientists, skeptics
and people in general outside Mexico. We extensively analysed
and discussed the repercussions before releasing this case to
the world.

What would the impact and consequences of an official UFO
disclosure taken by the military of a country like Mexico be? Who
would feel compromised by this meassure in his own country? The
mexican UFO disclosure was a complete surprise and we the
Mexicans were the first surprised. But our Secretary of Defense
made the decision and changed our history. He brought the future
to us, in our present.

Therefore, it's important to inform the actual status dated on
June 22, 2004 here in Mexico. The relationship between the
Secretary of Defense, the military and the Mexican UFO research
team is extraordinary and has reached an important level of
confidence and satisfaction. The Secretary of Defense officials
are very pleased with the meassures and the course of this
investigation.

It's important to mention that the investigation continues and
there have not been any conclusions yet. We are conducting
careful and dedicated research on this case, working with the
military officials in a joint effort, as well with friendly
researchers outside Mexico.

The Secretary of Defense officials have been extremely open and
co-operative in every step of this investigation and as an
example of their legitimate wishes to co-operate they agreed to
make a test flight to the oil wells zone and El Carmen aerial
space in order to perform certain proccedures that may be useful
for research purposes.

Now I ask all of you, would this attitude someday be posible in
your country, by your military forces? Would it be posible
someday that you would be able to discuss UFOs with the
Secretary of Defense in your country ?

In Mexico the UFO phenomena research took a trascendental course
after the July 11, 1991 solar eclipse incidents, a day that will
be remembered here when the Mexican people went to the streets
to observe the beginning of the Mexican UFO Wave, an event that
also took the world by surprise.

For 14 years we have been involved in unprecedented UFO activity
and promoting this Mexican phenomena as a reality. This has been
a long crusade and finally we got UFO disclosure by our
military. This is our goal and history has been written.

This is just the beginning. We sincerely belive that sooner or
later more countries will follow. Most probably Brazil will be
the next, thanks to the extraordinary efforts by the Brazilian
ufological community.

These thoughts invite the following reflection to all of you:
Are you ready for a UFO disclosure in your own country? Are you
prepared to accept the UFO phenomena as a fact? Are you willing
to say the word "UFO" or use the term Extraterrestial without
being afraid to compromise your reputations?

If you belive in the UFO disclosure proposal to your goverment
what are you willing to do for your country ?

So far, we have already answered all the questions here in
Mexico and the change has taken place. We don't intend or expect
to be understood, recognized or rejected by any other country.
We have been open and shared what is happening in our country.
We belive it is now your turn to do the same for your country -
if you belive the UFO phenomenon is a fact. If not, just forget
the whole thing and make your life more easier.

Our official UFO disclosure is our pride and is not a subject
of discussion, it's our own privilege. We legitimatelly earned
this disclosure through years of work and we don't care how
disconcerted and frustrated some foreigners may be by this
unprecedent event.

In conclusion let me quote our Secretary of Defense General
Clemente Vega words that come ad-hoc to this conclusion:

"Never before like today we are living such a stage of changes"


Santiago Yturria
Mexico







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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Eric Wenger <wenger.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:20:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 06:48:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


Gildas and Bruce,

Frankly, after looking back at the video, the idea of oil flames
seems pretty farfetched to me.

The basic laws of perspective tell you that a fixed object near
the horizon is not going to move much (contrary to what we see
in the video).

If we didn't have clouds we could think that the plane is
turning which would explain the apparent motion of the lights.
But we have clouds, and these provide a good frame of reference.
We know the objects are behind, because they are obstructed from
time to time.

That given, I can see no plausible perspective projection that
would account for both the motion of the clouds and the motion
of the lights, if you assume the lights were fixed points on the
ground.

So unless the oil flame were put on trucks driving pretty fast,
the oil flame theory doesn't fit what I see visually.

I think sometimes when going into too much technical detail one
forgets to see the obvious.


Best,

Eric Wenger
Paris








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   Jun > Jun 23

                      Phoenix Lights 2 - June 13, 2004

From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:29:16 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 06:58:20 -0400
Subject: Phoenix Lights 2 - June 13, 2004


Dear List

I was contacted by a gentleman who took some strange footage in
the same area of the Palo Verde Nuclear Power Plant, just
outside of Phoenix. He put it on his personal website, but has
resisted an investigation. He said that it occurred around 08:30
pm on June 13th, 2004 and lasted 8 to 10 minutes. His neighbor
saw the same thing around 04:30 the next morning, just a few
hours before a reported power grid problem shut down all three
reactors at Palo Verde.

I would like to have everyone's input on this that has any
experience in military flare footage or other technological
devices. Bruce M, Tom King and anyone else that has experience
in video footage should take a look at this.

I first thought that it might be flares, but the close-up stills
show a vivid color configuration that I have not seen before in
military flare footage.

http://www.worldblend.net/

Click on Phoenix Lights June 13, 2004 on lower left hand corner
of home page.

Use "Click here to see video" button for the 25 second video clip


Jim Kelly








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   Jun > Jun 23

                          Friedman/Shostak Debate?

From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:21:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 07:32:55 -0400
Subject: Friedman/Shostak Debate?


I was preparing to record the debate between Stanton Friedman
and Seth Shostak and ran across this notice on the Coast to
Coast web-site:

"Note: The joint appearance of Stanton Friedman and Seth Shostak
of SETI is being rescheduled."

Anyone have any info on the new date?

BTW, if you are interested in recording Internet radio programs
you might want to check out Replay Radio at http://www.replay-
radio.com/. In a nutshell, it's like Tivo for radio.

William Wise








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                     Recording Webcasts & Other Sources

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 07:55:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 07:55:25 -0400
Subject: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources





>From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:21:36 -0400
>Subject: Friedman/Shostak Debate

<snip>

>BTW, if you are interested in recording Internet radio programs
>you might want to check out Replay Radio at:

>http://www.replay->radio.com/

>In a nutshell, it's like Tivo for radio.

And outrageously priced too!

I've been using Total Recorder, a far more sophisticated, less
expensive piece of software, for several years and cannot
recommend it strongly enough.

Despite the company being located in Richmond Hill, north of
Toronto, I'm sure they've never heard of me - outside my
registration - or of the radio programs I host in Toronto &
Montreal. Which is to say my bias is based only on the software
itself.

If you want to record from _any_ source to almost any format,
check out:

http://www.highcriteria.com/main_productfr_tr_overview.htm

Version 4.5 Standard Edition is available for $11.95 U.S.

Version 4.5 Professional Edition is available for $35.95 U.S.


Errol Bruce-Knapp
ufoupdates.nul








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                  Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:55:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 07:59:57 -0400
Subject: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest


http://www.svherald.com/articles/2004/06/21/local_news/news3.txt

Here's a nice story on a group of folks taking the initiative to
investigate UFOs.

It spotlights their association with MUFON which shows me that
the common folk trust the MUFON folks. This is how things should
be, the people and UFOlogists working together to solve
problems.

No harsh criticisms, no invalidations, no character
assassinations. Just folks, the press, UFOlogists working
together.

We need more of this.


Best,

Greg








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                Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:08:22 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:04:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Boone


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:27:36 -0500
>Subject: Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:13:46 EDT
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close?

>>With events of recent and with media chatter do you think
>>Ufologists are getting 'too close for comfort?'

>No.

>>With the Mexican event still being analyzed and the data
>>collecting and processing being done professionally, do you
>>think the powers that be are getting a wee bit nervous?

>No.

>>Anyone notice email, website or phone problems at all?

>No.

>>Any 'strange' visitors out and about?

>No.

>>With the recent major mainstream news scandals of late ( see
>>Editor & Publisher's website regarding the circulation scandal )
>>do we see the tide turning for once?

>No.

>>As I've said before, 'insanity' has been redefined as 'Anything
>>anyone does or says that is in disagreement with the status
>>quo.'

>>Keep watching the skies, but you'ld be better off watching your
>>backs.

>Only if you're a paranoid with too much time on your hands.

>Jerry Clark

Wow! Caught a fish that quick with that line.

Thanks, Jerry.


Greg








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                  'Twisted Light... For Talking To Aliens'

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:12:22 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:28:25 -0400
Subject: 'Twisted Light... For Talking To Aliens'


I am not sure if this reached the List last week when the issue
of NS arrived up north, but it comes late to Cape Town, and I
wanted to share it with you.

Diana


Twisting The Light Away

New Scientist
vol 182 issue 2451
12 June 2004, page 36

A novel trick with light has got physicists in a spin. Pitch
your photon like a corkscrewing curveball and you can push
bandwidth through the roof, flummox eavesdroppers and perhaps
even talk to aliens. Stephen Battersby investigates


IT DOESN'T look like much, just a plain box about half a metre
long. Nonetheless, this is the prototype of something with
seemingly magical properties. Fire a beam of its laser light at
the dust sitting on your tabletop and the dust motes will begin
to dance around in circles.

Fair enough, that's not quite a killer application. But before
Miles Padgett and his team at the University of Glasgow in the
UK built this device, they weren't exactly sure what it would be
used for - their plan was to invite industrialists to see it in
action, and wait for the reaction and some suggestions. Without
a working model, though, no one would take them seriously. "If
you say to people, there's a device we haven't built yet, based
on untried technology, using physics you've never heard of, but
I assure you it's going to work...well, it's much better to
demonstrate it to them."

So they built it and demonstrated it, and now the applications
have become clear - and sought after. This box is the prototype
for what could prove a revolutionary, high-security
communications technology. Revolutionary to us, that is. Alien
civilisations may be using it already.

Padgett's box creates something most physicists have never even
heard of, something never seen in nature. It is called twisted
light.

The energy of ordinary light travels in the same direction as
the wave: if you could freeze an ordinary beam of laser light,
you would see a neat series of waves, crest following trough
following crest. Each wave crest would look a bit like a pancake
face on to the direction of travel, with the pancakes slicing
the beam up into sections one wavelength long.

But in a beam of twisted light the energy of each wave travels
in a corkscrew path, spiralling around the beam's central axis.
The crests also look completely different to those of ordinary
light: they are transformed so that they merge into a corkscrew
(see Graphic). If you could stand on a wave crest and walk
around the beam, after one complete circuit you would find
yourself standing one wavelength away from where you started.

Though twisted light might sound exotic, making it is
surprisingly easy. All you need is a diffraction grating -
 nothing more than a set of narrow lines drawn on a transparent
film. The light waves bend, or diffract, as they pass through
the grating, and then interfere with each other as they emerge.
For light of a particular wavelength, diffraction occurs in a
way that can be easily calculated, and physicists can work out
what pattern of lines they need on the grating to create a
twisted beam. You can produce a single helix, a double helix
like DNA, a triple one like fusilli pasta, a quadruple one, or
even more. You can even alter the grating pattern to make a
terrifically screwy beam with a twist of 250 or more.

Sending laser light through such a grating actually imparts
twist to the individual photons - the energy-carrying particles
of light - in the beam. In quantum physics terms, the photons in
the beam gain orbital angular momentum (see "The quantum
angle"). Unlike polarisation, which is restricted to just two
states (clockwise and anticlockwise), orbital angular momentum
can take on an unlimited number of possible states. And that's
one reason why twisty light could prove so useful. The endless
number of twist states means there is no theoretical limit to
the amount of information you can send with a beam of twisted
light.

Many forms of communication use binary codes - if you have a
flashlight, and you need to send a message to your friend, you
only have the choice between flashlight on and flashlight off.
There's just one bit of information per flash. Standard optical
telecoms work in a similar way, but use light pulses of several
frequencies at once to speed up the process. Even highly
sophisticated quantum communication systems only encode
information in one of the two polarisation states of a photon.

But a pulse of twisted light, even a single twisted photon, can
hold a lot more information than that, because there are a lot
more states to choose from. "With a twist of up to 26 you could
choose to encode the alphabet," says Padgett. You could simply
decide that a flash of single helix light means the letter A, a
flash of double helix is B, and so on.

The idea of using twisted light to communicate was first raised
in 2002 by Gabriel Molina-Terriza, then at the Technical
University of Catalonia in Barcelona (Physical Review Letters,
vol 88, p 13601). However, Molina-Terriza's team faced a
practical snag: they didn't have a good way to receive a twisted
light signal - to tell what twist it has. Without that,
communication would be impossible.

But the solution wasn't far off. Padgett and his Glasgow group
had already been using twisted light to create an "optical
spanner", which is able to spin tiny components (and dust
motes), and one day might be used to build microscopic machines
(New Scientist, 14 February 1998, p 34). When they heard Molina-
Terriza's suggestion, the team realised they could turn their
twisted expertise to communication.

The heart of their prototype is a spatial light modulator (See
Graphic). This is a high-resolution liquid-crystal display which
can be used as a kind of controllable diffraction grating. A
laser beam is blocked by the opaque pixels, and passes through
the transparent pixels. Where the light passes through it is
diffracted, bending the shape of the wave.

Together with Steve Barnett and his theory group at the
University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, Johannes Courtial of
Padgett's team worked out what patterns were needed to give a
plain laser beam any one of eight different twists. They just
switched the pattern on their spatial light modulator to send a
pulse of a given twist.

The receiver is slightly different. It focuses the incoming beam
onto another spatial light modulator, but this one is programmed
with a fixed pattern that sends each of those eight different
twists out in a different direction, travelling to one of eight
detectors.

Last April, Graham Gibson of the University of Glasgow began to
put a prototype together, cannibalising an old air-pollution
monitoring system the group had built years before. Everything
went smoothly, and early this year they got it working. "We've
taken it outside and used it over 30 metres or so," says
Padgett.

Twisted talk

The Glasgow team are the first to harness the power of twisted
light for communications. Their prototype can send light pulses
with eight different twists, so a pulse carries the equivalent
of three bits of information. It should easily be possible to
increase that to 64 twist states, carrying six times the data of
an ordinary binary channel.

So, how far could it go? "In theory, you could encode all 60,000
Chinese characters," says Padgett, "but by that point it becomes
unpractical." That's because the twistier the light, the more
the beam loses focus and spreads as it travels. Padgett reckons
the practical limit may be somewhere in the hundreds of twist
states.

That still makes it an enticing prospect for carrying data at
unprecedented rates. At the moment, there's not much call for
beaming optical messages through free space. Fibres are another
matter. If you could send twisted light down the existing
optical-fibre network, its greater bandwidth could carry extra
movie channels, or even allow more futuristic, data-hungry
applications such as online 3D virtual reality. There's just one
small problem: twisted light is not compatible with today's
optical fibres. "If it were, I'd have retired to the south of
France on a yacht by now," says Padgett. The problem is that if
you stress the fibre at all, even by bending it round a corner,
it changes the twist.

However, it should eventually be possible to design fibres that
can safely carry twisted light. Padgett thinks that multi-cored
fibres might be an answer - a fibre with 16 separate cores might
be able to carry twists of up to 16 without scrambling them. But
for now that's just a guess: he doesn't know exactly how you
would need to arrange the cores, or whether it would work.
Meanwhile, a team led by Alexander Volyar at Tavrichesky
National University in Ukraine is working on physically twisting
fibres to accommodate twisted light.

Another magical property of twisted light may prove valuable
before that. It offers a whole new approach to secure
communications - an approach that is already provoking interest.
In February, a commercial organisation approached Padgett's
group with a specific application in mind. Unfortunately Padgett
can't say what that is, or even name the interested party. "We
have a non-disclosure agreement - including company names," he
says.

Padgett will say, however, that his group has begun work on a
microwave version of the device. There may be little call for
free-space communication at visible wavelengths, but point-to-
point microwave systems are ubiquitous, for example, carrying
cellphone traffic between base stations. Because microwave beams
spread out much more than optical beams, it is much easier to
eavesdrop on microwave communication. You can be hundreds of
metres away from the intended receiver and still pick up enough
of a signal to listen in. And that's where twisted microwaves
could help.

Unless you are right at the centre of the twisted beam, where
you can see the whole spiral, you can't get all the information
it carries. Off centre, where you only see a section of the
spiral, you simply can't tell what its twist is - so you can't
read the message (see "Spiralling security").

For those with enough cash and the paranoia, the security of
twisted light could also be combined with the impenetrability of
quantum cryptography. Quantum-cryptographic systems, which are
already commercially available, establish a key via single
photons fired along a fibre-optic cable. The receiver can check
them for the quantum disturbances that any eavesdropper would
introduce, thus guaranteeing that the key has not been
intercepted.

Messages in space

Although quantum cryptography is totally secure in theory,
building the actual physical set-up can introduce weaknesses
that an ingenious eavesdropper could exploit (New Scientist, 29
November 2003, p 24). And data rates are very slow: commercial
systems generate keys at a few hundred bits per second - not
even enough to encrypt a telephone conversation. But combine
quantum cryptography with the extra bandwidth of twisted light
and you might boost the capacity tenfold or more, enough to make
truly secure communication practical. Twisted light could well
end up as a common cryptographic tool for financial institutions
- perhaps for beaming sensitive information between skyscrapers
- or on the battlefield.

It could also end up in space. Most satellites communicate via
microwave beams, which spread widely by the time they hit the
ground, making it simple to eavesdrop on an ordinary beam.
Again, twisted microwaves could make the message accessible only
to the intended receiver at the beam's core. Although the team
haven't tested their rig over such long ranges, they say there
is no reason why it shouldn't work in principle.

If we do point twisted-light detectors up to space, it's just
possible that we might see more than we bargained for. Martin
Harwit, emeritus professor in astronomy at Cornell University in
New York, has suggested we start looking for twisted light from
space as part of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.
Since no known natural phenomenon can create a coherent beam of
electromagnetic radiation with, say, a sixfold helix, it would
stand out from the background noise of the universe as a
deliberate call sign.

It certainly makes looking for ordinary radio signals seem a
little backward. So, until we have mastered its use here on
Earth, maybe we should pursue twisted light as a matter of
pride. Perhaps talking with twists will come to be known as the
mark of a truly advanced civilisation.

Spiralling security

If Alice sends Bob a twisted light beam, and Eve wants to listen
in, she's going to have a hard time of it. If she's in the
neighbouring office block, say, she can only pick up one fringe
of the beam. She can't see the whole pattern of wavefronts, so
she won't be able to tell how twisted it is. She will get just a
fraction of the information, which would be useless.

Maybe Eve could recruit some evil henchmen, and have them
intercept other bits of the beam? "If they have someone right,
left, below and above, they can do a better job," says Miles
Padgett. But still not good enough. Eve would probably need
eight listeners, dotted evenly around the edges of the beam, to
be able to discern its twist reliably.

And to compare the relative phase of the different parts of the
beam, which you need to do to determine its twist, the listeners
have to combine the light they gather - maybe they could bounce
it off mirrors to some main collecting station where it could
all be recombined. They would also have to use their own laser
reference beams to correct for any wobbles.

Even if this mad scheme worked, it would be easy enough for
Alice to increase the range of twist states from eight to 64,
say. Eve would then need to recruit several dozen spies.

Eve can't dangle a detector in the middle of the beam because
Bob will notice that he's not seeing the whole beam. She could
make a lightly silvered mirror, and bounce a little of the light
away to the side, but it would be tricky. She would need to know
just where the middle of the beam is, and somehow suspend her
mirror there. And taking so little light would make it difficult
to extract the twist information. Alice can make the beam quite
weak, so Bob has just enough light to detect its twist. If Eve
sees only a small fraction of that, analysing it could be all
but impossible. "In theory it's possible to do this so
delicately that the receiver doesn't know there is
eavesdropping. But it would be exceptionally awkward," says
Padgett.




The Quantum angle

Can even a single photon be twisted? If you think about light as
a classical wave, then twisted light is like a corkscrew, with
the wave fronts bent into a single or multiple helix. But it's
hard to see how that makes sense for a single quantum of light,
a photon. So until a few years ago, physicists thought that
twist might only be a property of big beams of light.

In 1992 Les Allen of the University of St Andrews in the UK
showed that twisted light carries angular momentum, like a
flywheel. For singly twisted light, it works out at one quantum
unit of angular momentum per photon, so Allen suggested that
this "orbital angular momentum" is a property of the individual
photons.

In 2001 Alois Mair, now at Harvard University, worked with Anton
Zeilinger's group at the University of Vienna, Austria, to prove
it. They created entangled pairs of twisted photons, and showed
that the twist resides in each photon (Nature, vol 412, p 313).

A twisted photon is a curious thing. It appears to travel along
a helical path, as if it is tied to some imaginary beam axis
with string. If you detect it anywhere along the beam, it will
seem to be coming at you from an angle - its momentum is not
directed straight along the beam, but partly around the beam's
axis. Of course, being a quantum object means it doesn't really
move along a well-defined path at all. All you can say is how
likely you are to detect it in a given spot, which gives you a
spread-out quantum wave function. And what does the wave
function of a twisted photon look like? Exactly like the
corkscrew of classical twisted light.


Stephen Battersby










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   Jun > Jun 23

                Re: Phoenix Lights 2 - June 13, 2004 - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:08:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:48:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights 2 - June 13, 2004 - Kaeser


>From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:29:16 EDT
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Phoenix Lights 2 - June 13, 2004

>I was contacted by a gentleman who took some strange footage in
>the same area of the Palo Verde Nuclear Power Plant, just
>outside of Phoenix. He put it on his personal website, but has
>resisted an investigation.

<snip>

The direct link to the Phoenix Lights page is:

http://www.worldblend.net/worldblendbu/PHXLIGHTS.html

>Click on Phoenix Lights June 13, 2004 on lower left hand corner
>of home page.

>Use "Click here to see video" button for the 25 second video clip

I'm concerned that this gentleman is resisting an investigation,
given the thrust of his web site. Bruce Maccabee would be a good
person to look at the video and he ususally monitors this List
and will perhaps respond. In the video, which is impacted by the
fact that the camera appears to be hand held, the lights almost
appear to be connected and are moving up and down as if attached
to a string that was waving in the breeze. But that's a quick
comment after watching it a couple of times, and I'm no expert.

Another point to make is that in 1997 there were a number of
witnesses that came forward fairly quickly, causing that
sighting to become a national news story. So far, this event has
a single witness that I'm aware of, who has taken a video and
released it without any investigation to even back up the
veracity of the video itself.


Steve








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                Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 07:58:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:30:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close? - Clark


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:08:22 EDT
>Subject: Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close?

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:27:36 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close?

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:13:46 EDT
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: Are Ufologists Getting Too Close?

Greg,

>>>As I've said before, 'insanity' has been redefined as 'Anything
>>>anyone does or says that is in disagreement with the status
>>>quo.'

>>>Keep watching the skies, but you'ld be better off watching your
>>>backs.

>>Only if you're a paranoid with too much time on your hands.

>Wow! Caught a fish that quick with that line.

>Thanks, Jerry.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. It was as if you were
anticipating the obvious and trying, though I'm afraid not well,
to innoculate yourself. I don't pretend clinical expertise or
pretend to make literal, serious clinical diagnoses, but I do
think it's safe to say that anyone who lives in fear because of
his interest in UFOs has, at the very least, way too much time
on his hands.

Which, however, cannot be said of intelligence agencies, which
these days are already stretched to their limits and beyond with
matters (ever heard of terrorism? The war on Iraq?) far more
urgent than the parochial concerns of already thoroughly
marginalized ufologists. I grant you, though, that it _is_ fun
to fantasize about how important we are.

In your uniquely UFO - and ufologist-centric universe, I infer,
U.S. intelligence agencies see us as a threat to the republic as
grave as Osama bin Laden, if not more so, and thus worthy of
diversion of already scarce resources and personnel so that they
know exactly when we take out the garbage or mow the lawn or
look upward.

That, my friend, is rank nonsense. Get a grip.


Jerry Clark








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                   Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:57:47 -0300
Archived: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:44:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate? - Friedman


>From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:21:36 -0400
>Subject: Friedman/Shostak Debate

>I was preparing to record the debate between Stanton Friedman
>and Seth Shostak and ran across this notice on the Coast to
>Coast web-site:

>"Note: The joint appearance of Stanton Friedman and Seth Shostak
>of SETI is being rescheduled."

>Anyone have any info on the new date?

I found out Tuesday at about 5:00pm from the Boston airport that
Seth Shostak had developed pneumonia and we wouldn't be debating
last night. Should know when it is rescheduled for very soon.

My flight from Boston to Fredericton was delayed so I didn't get
home until 12:30am this morning... still plenty of time for the
debate.

I guess people will do anything to avoid a debate, but pneumonia
seems a bit much. <VBG>


Stan Friedman

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast

See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/





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                Re: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources - Wise

From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:34:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:52:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources - Wise


>From: Errol Bruce-Knapp
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 7:55 AM
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources

<snip>

>And outrageously priced too!

>I've been using Total Recorder, a far more sophisticated,
>less expensive piece of software, for several years and
>cannot recommend it strongly enough.

>Despite the company being located in Richmond Hill, north
>of Toronto, I'm sure they've never heard of me - outside
>my registration - or of the radio programs I host in
>Toronto & Montreal. Which is to say my bias is based only
>on the software itself.

>If you want to record from _any_ source to almost any
>format, check out:

>http://www.highcriteria.com/main_productfr_tr_overview.htm

>Version 4.5 Standard Edition is available for $11.95 U.S.

>Version 4.5 Professional Edition is available for $35.95 U.S.


Thanks Errol!

Total Recorder looks great and the standard version beats Replay
Radio's price by about $19.00 U.S.

If anyone knows of a similar piece of software that works on the
Macintosh (OS X) please let me know.


Will






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               Re: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:39:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:55:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:55:18 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest

>http://www.svherald.com/articles/2004/06/21/local_news/news3.txt

>Here's a nice story on a group of folks taking the initiative to
>investigate UFOs.

>It spotlights their association with MUFON which shows me that
>the common folk trust the MUFON folks. This is how things should
>be, the people and UFOlogists working together to solve
>problems.

>No harsh criticisms, no invalidations, no character
>assassinations. Just folks, the press, UFOlogists working
>together.

The article states, in part:


[begin quote]

Why do some people see UFOs and not others?

"I think they're interested in certain genetic characteristics,"
Burgess said.

"They are sometimes invited through meditation or prayers,"
added Jessy Kaiser of Willcox, Cochise County section director
for MUFON

[end quote]


MUFON (IMO) has become a fan based organization and while some
members are viewing this as a scientific pursuit, most have
strong beliefs and theories based on little more than
speculation, belief and faith.

One can look at the speaker list for this year's MUFON Symposium
and get an impression of how selective MUFON has become in it's
promotion of ideas and theories. It's too bad, but if one wants
to attract enough people to pay for an event, you have to
include a lot of "entertainment".

I appreciate the fact that this article is supportive and isn't
written to make fun of the subject (as many writers do), and
that's a positive step. But the field will need a lot more to
gain scientific credibility (if that's still a goal).


Steve







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   Jun > Jun 24

                Re: il Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:19:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:29:55 -0400
Subject: Re: il Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:58:27 -0500
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:41:24 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:50 +0000
>>>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>As I have stated in each of my postings on this, it is likely
>>NOT the 'smoking gun' case some all too quickly declared it.

>>I closed in my last postbefore this by saying, "Certainly
>>Maussan has, in public declarations, excitedly 'inflated' this
>>case far beyond its real value."

>>Well, perhaps the real value of the Campeche case may be to
>>teach UFO enthusiasts not to jump up and down, shouting with
>>enthusiasm, unless or until the jury returns with a favorable
>>verdict.


>Mr. Stanford,

>I would like to clearify this point just to avoid any further
>confusion with this issue. What we proclaim and sustain is the
>fact that our Mexican military under our Secretary of Defense
>opened their doors and granted the UFO disclosure to the Mexican
>people.

>This is our real valuable goal with this case, the historic
>precedent that changed history here in Mexico, the long awaited
>response to our ufologic crusade for years. Yes we are proud,
>enthused, excited, honored, motivated etc. by this historic
>change in our society.

<snip>

Santiago, Ray, Et Al,

Bingo Santiago! There are two roads to travel here in terms of
the investigation on the Campeche UFOs, i.e., "we'll either be
able to say what they are, or what they're not!" (Barring any
other evidence turning up).

That is to say, that we've started with video of lights in the
sky, regardless of how it was recorded, and at the end of the
day, that is still what we're going to have; even if it can be
proven these objects were "metallic and intelligently
controlled" so what! The video will just go into the pile with
the others!

I think what Santiago is pointing out is the bigger phenomenon
between the two events - the fact that the "Mexican government
stepped up to the plate!" To admonish the seriousness of the
matter and initiate dialogue with Ufologists, scientists and the
like, is one giant step for all of us.

As Santiago points out, this is one event in a multitude of
events, and there isn't anything to indicate that it's going to
stop; so this "new posture" established by the Mexican
government/military will hopefully act as a precedent for other
world governments to follow! (Not holding my breath for ours).

Yes, this indeed is the "rare or significant fact or event" that
should not be overlooked!

Speaking only for myself Santiago, I certainly empathize with
your feelings, and realize the "significance" of what has taken
place! Can you imagine if the United States were to follow
Mexico's lead?! (One can only dream, right?)

In any event, hopefully this new tone will continue and "other
government's" will follow Mexico's lead.


Buenos Suerte,

Frank











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   Jun > Jun 24

                       Teleportation Breakthrough Made

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:05:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:32:31 -0400
Subject: Teleportation Breakthrough Made


Complete article at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3811785.stm

Scientists have performed successful teleportation on atoms for
the first time, the journal Nature reports. The feat was
achieved by two teams of researchers working independently on
the problem in the US and Austria.

The ability to transfer key properties of one particle to
another without using any physical link has until now only been
achieved with laser light.

Experts say being able to do the same with massive particles
like atoms could lead to new superfast computers.

This development is a long way from the transporters used by
Jean-Luc Picard and Captain Kirk in the famous Star Trek TV
series.








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               Re: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest -

From: Michael Bilodeau <micbilodeau.nul-bec.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:25:45 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:35:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest -


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:39:32 -0400
>Subject: Re: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:55:18 EDT
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Nice Story About MUFON & Public Interest

>>http://www.svherald.com/articles/2004/06/21/local_news/news3.txt

<snip>

>[begin quote]

>Why do some people see UFOs and not others?

>"I think they're interested in certain genetic characteristics,"
>Burgess said.

>"They are sometimes invited through meditation or prayers,"
>added Jessy Kaiser of Willcox, Cochise County section director
>for MUFON

>[end quote]

<snip>

>I appreciate the fact that this article is supportive and isn't
>written to make fun of the subject (as many writers do), and
>that's a positive step. But the field will need a lot more to
>gain scientific credibility (if that's still a goal).

<snip>

I flinched when I read the part about genetics, prayers and
meditation. I also flinched with:

>But the field will need a lot more to gain scientific credibility


I am not against scientific credibility. I just think that
begging for it will get us nowhere. You cannot get credibility
if you are systematically ignored. That is exactly what the
scientific community has done since 1947. The Keyhoes,
MacDonalds, Hyneks, Halls, Sparks, Friedmans, Rudiaks, Maccabees
and others have presented their case to people who have all but
forfeited their pledge to science.

Just consider the present Mexico case. Who is looking into it,
making the right scientific moves and looking at the evidence?
The 'not scientifically recognized' ufologists! Who are turning
their back on the data and issuing unfathomable stupid
'explanations' - and getting credit for it? _Scientists_. In the
same breath, I notice that the usual debunkers from the List are
doing _nothing_ for the Mexico case. Will this prevent them from
the usual chest beating in a near future? They'll be too happy
to keep trashing the ones who do the right work.

Imagine for a moment that the present study by ufologists prove
that the Mexico case is a non-event. Do you think anybody will
get even a nod from the scientific community? Don't count on it.
Expect the "I told you" front page with the smile of the
'scientists' who have issued the previous unfathomable stupid
'explanations'.

The joke is on us. Nothing can be done against denial.

I don't think we should be looking for credibility. Credibility
is not earned, it is granted.

Whatever our devotion to science and scientific method and
approach, the anointment will not come from scientists. It might
not come at all.

I believe the only hope is in total disclosure by some
government. Although the Mexican authorities have released the
video, I haven't seen any mention of a possible 'total
disclosure'. Let's cross our fingers. When that day comes, we'll
be cooking with gas.

As some guy once told me though, when UFOs get credentials, the
money flow will probably go to universities. It's gonna be Dr.
This and Professor That, and Dick Who? Brad Who? Stan Who? David
Who? Bruce Who?

This may sound cynical but who remembers the first Christians?








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                      SpaceShipOne Scrapes Into History

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:07:31 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:37:38 -0400
Subject: SpaceShipOne Scrapes Into History


For anyone that missed it, Spaceship one is the first privately
sponsored successfully launched space-vehicle to reach beyond
sub-orbital space.

The full story can be read at:

http://www.nature.com/nsu/040621/040621-4.html


Joe







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                      Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:44:17 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:40:25 -0400
Subject: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor


I quote from Dan Brown's book, "Angels & Demons," Atria Books,
NY, 2000. Page 380:


"The ancient war between science and religion is over. You
(Science) have won. But you have not won fairly. You have not
won by providing answers. You have won by so radically
reorienting our society that the truths we once saw a signposts
now seem inapplicable. Religion cannot keep up. Scientific
growth is exponential. It feeds on itself like a virus. Every
new breakthrough opens doors for new breakthroughs. Mankind took
thousands of years to progress from the wheel to the car. Yet
only decades from the car into space. Now we measure scientific
progress in weeks. We are spinning out of control. The rift
between us grows deeper and deeper, and as religion is left
behind, people find themselves in a spiritual void. We cry out
for meaning. And believe me, we do cry out. We see UFOs, engage
in channeling, spirit contact, out -of-body experiences,
mindquests - all these eccentric ideas have a scientific veneer,
but they are unashamedly irrational. They are the desperate cry
of the modern soul, lonely and tormented, crippled by its own
enlightenment and its inability to accept meaning in anything
removed from technology."


Well, I have read the analysis of the UFO phenomenon. I have
also heard the actual voices of hundreds of people who have seen
and had contact with UFOs. They cannot all be deluded, but the
debunkers certainly are, because their minds are small and
hollow.

After a lifetime of learning and keeping an open mind, I believe
that the UFO phenomena being reported now, as in the past, is as
real as I know myself to exist. I do not worship the phenomena,
but respect its reality. It has provided me with wonder, joy,
encouragement, contemplation, reflection and knowledge removed
from itself. From the phenomena I have been lead to explore many
of the sciences and religions. It is a journey that has allowed
me a personal search for self and meaning.

Science has defaulted on the question and cowardly neglected its
own principles in the investigation of the phenomena. It has
falsely proclaimed it's own superiority in the answer to the
question. Science lied and continues to do so. Religion has
ignored the phenomena and has given no guidance as to the wonder
of it. Thus, it too defaults on the needs of mankind's journey
to understand.

So I ask rhetorically. Is it even important to have confirmation
from science or religion to enjoy the wonderment of the
phenomenon and learn from the journey in trying to understand it
enough to accept it and what it might entail for the personal as
well as the whole of humanity?


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com







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               Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:18:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:42:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated -


>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:58:27 -0500
>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:41:24 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:52 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:50 +0000
>>>>Subject: Re: Oil Well Flames Objectively Investigated

>>As I have stated in each of my postings on this, it is likely
>>NOT the 'smoking gun' case some all too quickly declared it.

>>I closed in my last postbefore this by saying, "Certainly
>>Maussan has, in public declarations, excitedly 'inflated' this
>>case far beyond its real value."

>>Well, perhaps the real value of the Campeche case may be to
>>teach UFO enthusiasts not to jump up and down, shouting with
>>enthusiasm, unless or until the jury returns with a favorable
>>verdict.

>Mr. Stanford,

>I would like to clearify this point just to avoid any further
>confusion with this issue. What we proclaim and sustain is the
>fact that our Mexican military under our Secretary of Defense
>opened their doors and granted the UFO disclosure to the Mexican
>people.

>This is our real valuable goal with this case, the historic
>precedent that changed history here in Mexico, the long awaited
>response to our ufologic crusade for years. Yes we are proud,
>enthused, excited, honored, motivated etc. by this historic
>change in our society.

>The Campeche case served perfectly as the link that made posible
>the establishment of a direct communication with our military
>and goverment representatives to work, discuss and research all
>the issues related to an undeniable phenomena that has taken
>place in Mexico for over a decade with an intensity like no
>other country in the world.

<snip>

Santiago,

Many here in the good ole USA also desire more openness with our
taxpayer paid government and military as well. I would welcome
an event like Campeche to allow our USA to open up its closed
doors.

The Phoenix Lights on March 13, 1997 would have been a nice
beginning but of course they (the Arizona/Phoenix
city/USA/Media) just blew us all off. It was interesting
coincidence though how all of a sudden the USA Today front page
story did blow open the major media to inquire about it 3 months
later just days prior to the 50th anniversary of the Roswell UFO
crash.

The St. Louis area January 5, 2000 UFO sighting reported by
police officers from the Millstadt/Lebanon/Dupo police
departments could have been another one for military
cooperation. But it was not to be. Just silence. See:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1288.htm

Don't let a few negatives put the kabosh on what your Mexican
gov't has graciously achireved with its openness and working
with Maussan's organization on this groundbreaking case. I say
hurray for Mexico and Brazil next!


Brian Adams
UFOMIG.com








   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 24

                           Filers Files #27 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 16:18:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:49:43 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #27 - 2004


Filers Files #27 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
Vice President of Skywatch International
June 23, 2004,
Webmaster: Chuck Warren


Images of Discs

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. These Files make the assumption that
extraterrestrial intelligent life exists. Shuttle Captures Video
of Disc UFO, Vermont =96 Black Object, New York - Blue Shiny Ball
and Oval, New Jersey =96 Two Low-Flying Triangular Lights,
Pennsylvania =96 UFO Makes U-turn, West Virginia =96 Investigation,
Maryland =96 Sphere, Florida -Disc Bursts Into Colors, Tennessee =96
Video of UFO, Indiana =96 Flying Triangles, Illinois =96 Light,
Oklahoma - Diamond Not of This World, Texas =96 UFO Image,
Colorado =96 Flying Triangle, Arizona -Lights, Utah - Two
Transparent Triangles, California - Humming Oval and Triangle
Imaged, Oregon =96 Two Sightings, Washington - Silver Teardrop at
40 Feet, Canada =96 Sighting Continue, Colombia =96 Light,
UK/England - Cylinder and Red Arrows, Portugal - Many Moving
Lights, Serbia =96 Light Balls, Pakistan =96 Flying Triangle,
Australia - House-sized' Meteorite and New Zealand - Teardrop
UFO.

Shuttle Captures Video of Disc UFO

NASA TV Channel video downloads were recently reviewed Dr. Oren
Swearingen who noticed a disc shaped UFO flying formation with
SST 112 Atlantis shuttle. The actual flight took place on
October 10, 2002, (003 days: 03 hours: 43: seconds) while the
shuttle was flying over the Canadian and Midwest US border. A
disc shaped UFO is videotaped from the SST Shuttle's Bay video
camera. The disc at first appears to some part of the Shuttle
Arm because it is barely moving in relationship to the Shuttle.
Jeffrey S. Ashby, was commander and astronaut Pamela A. Melroy,
pilot, astronaut David A. Wolf, was the mission specialist.

The video cuts away to the Mission Control Center repeatedly,
but half of the white UFO is visible. As the video continues the
UFO gradually moves off screen to the right of the image. The
UFO is white and about the same color as the shuttle. It is a
typical disc shape and is estimated to be about thirty feet in
diameter with a cockpit on top. The object may some type of
object designed to fit inside the Shuttle's Bay particularly if
its wings fold. Of course it might be a visitor similar to
those reported by Russian Cosmonauts. Disc UFO is at the bottom
center of NASA image.

Thanks to Dr. Oren Swearingen who sent me the complete tape.

Vermont =96 Black Object

SOUTH ROYALTON =96 A black object was observed in the sky on June
10, 2004, at 2:30 PM, and continued maneuvering for over an hour
to various locations. I have original photographs if they need
to be documented. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

New York - Blue Shiny Ball and Oval

BUFFALO -- While taking a walk a couple noticed a black oblong
oval shaped object directly overhead and very high at 8:40 PM on
June 11, 2004. The black oblong oval shaped object then changed
to a shining metallic color. It was black in the center and
faded to gray at the edges and was stationary in cloudless sky.
The object then turned to an intense bright white metallic color
and disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

NEW YORK CITY (BRONX) =96 The observer says, "I saw a bright
bluish light at 11:30I PM on June 12, 2004, while walking in the
Kingsbridge section of the Bronx. It flew from west to east very
slowly. In the beginning it was slightly erratic. At one point I
looked away and when I looked back it was there again. The sky
was very clear and it shone very bright. It was like a mix of a
reflection, a ball of energy, sparkly, an electric blue ball
shinny bubble of electricity. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

New Jersey =96 Two Low-Flying Triangular Lights

HOWELL =96 MUFON's Chuck Stroze writes, "I had a sighting on
January 29, 2004, almost exactly the same as the one reported in
the May MUFON Journal." When I was driving home at 10 PM, I saw
six bright lights just above the overpass of State Highway 33."
There were three lights above and three lights all flying very
low. As I continued to drive south, it struck me that they were
heading straight towards me. I stopped my car and got out to
look on that cold night. At first I thought it was one craft
with two levels of three forward facing white lights. I soon
realized instead that each "level" as I had described it, was
actually one craft. I stood and watched as they came closer,
seemingly right at me. There was no sound, as the two craft
turned west as they were almost over me, gained altitude and
flew parallel to route 33. They drifted, slowly and quietly.
=46rom behind, I could barely see them. Their lights were directed
mostly straight ahead, but I never got a very good look at the
structure of the craft themselves. Thanks to MUFON's Chuck
Stroze

Pennsylvania =96 UFO Makes U-turn

JESSUP =96 The witness looked up into the sky and noticed a weird
shaped red object west of his house towards the town of
Peckvillsaw. The UFO was making a sideways U turn on June 13,
2004, at 12:24 AM., that lasted three seconds. The UFO was red
in color, and had an odd shape. It made a U shape in flight and
went back to where he first saw it and disappeared. Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director http://www.ufocenter.com/

West Virginia =96 Investigation

SAINT ALBANS -- MUFON Field Investigator K. David McCormick
interviewed the two witnesses to a UFO sighting on the night of
October 8, 2003, at 10:30 PM. A women and her nephew were
driving around town on Grant Avenue and saw what appeared to be
a large moving star, two or three times the brightness of other
stars. Although the object was stationary for most of the time
it appeared to maneuver twice descending and climbing rapidly
back to its original position. The witnesses were sure the
object was not Mars, that they had been recently tracking. They
felt the light was only about a mile away and moved up and down
as they drove. Both viewers became frightened by the object.
After evaluating the location of the object based on the Night
Sky Planisphere, and interviewing the two witnesses, David
McCormack feels the witnesses misinterpreted the star Altair
possibly due to possible refraction of the star through the auto
glass and the movement of the vehicle. This was not a hoax, but
a misinterpretation of the night sky. Thanks to MUFON Field
Investigator K. David McCormick

Maryland =96 Sphere

CRISFIELD =96 The witness saw a red-sphere shaped UFO about 9 PM,
on June 13, 2004, that was flying 5 to 10 mph, too slow for a
helicopter or aircraft. The witness could not determine the
size of the object but is familiar with many types of aircraft
lights, but they were not like this one. He thought it might be
a satellite; but there was no sound at all, that's the strange
thing. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

Florida -Disc Bursts Into Colors

NEW PORT RICHEY -- The witness saw a disc like shape hovering
over the Gulf of Mexico at 4:30 PM on June 11, 2004. He took a
video of the object that shows bursting lights that changed
colors from green, to red, and blue moving very slowly. He
states, "There could have been dust on my lens, but in two of
the photos, there are no dust specs all over." But there is a
big spec in each of the shots. "I do not necessarily believe in
UFO's, but I'm open to the possibilities, he said." Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director

Crestview =96 On June 7, 2004, the witness reports, "My husband,
my two sons, and I went for a walk at 10 PM, and saw a bright
white light above the treetops traveling south." We noticed a
red streak type tail off the back of it coming to a point. It
traveled steady and parallel to the earth for about 30 seconds
and then it just faded to just a red light and disappeared. We
have never seen anything like that? It looked allot like a
shooting star or meteor with the exception that it was a lot
larger, brighter, and was traveling horizontally instead of
vertically and seemed to be just above the treetops. If you hold
your index fingers together and your thumbs together to form a
circle and extend you arm all the way out, that is how large it
was as it flew by. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

Tennessee =96 Video of UFO

MUFON's Kim Shaffer reports, "I was outside at 10:25 PM, doing
my nightly sky watching with my binoculars and video camera. I
noticed an object to my SW heading NE and somewhat to my west.
At first, I thought it was an aircraft with its landing lights
on. As I watched it grew bigger and appeared reddish white,
spherical, relative size was that of a pea at arm's length. I
began taping on a Sony handicam. There was no noise, no
variation of the illumination and no course change. As I taped,
the object passed west of me and I could see that there were two
objects, one behind the other. Both were illuminated the same.
As the object passed from view to the NE, I ran inside and went
to the "heavens above "site to check the current position of the
"ISS" which was over the central Pacific heading SE. I will
have the clip edited and put on the Tennessee MUFON site news
page soon, http://www.mufontennessee.org/

Thanks to Kim Shaffer MUFON TN State Director
shaffer56.nul

Ohio - Oblong Caught On Film

TOLEDO -- A white circle-shaped object was spotted a few moments
before it became distorted, flickered, and disappeared. My wife
and I looked up at the sky and saw a large white circle at 2 PM,
on June 13, 2004. The clouds moved very quickly, but the object
was below them. The clouds were moving pass it as the object
stayed in place. This was in the city, so lights were cast onto
the downtown area. There were no blinking lights on the object,
just a white circle. I have watched the sky for years and am an
astronomer as well. This was not a plane, a balloon or a planet
peaking through holes in the clouds. Whatever it was vanished
into thin air. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

COLUMBUS - A professional photographer on June 20, 2004, was
shooting building pictures at sunrise, 6:30 AM, and shoots four
or five shots, varying the zoom, but not the angle. On the
second shot of four there was an object in the sky. The shutter
speed was set at 60th, and the object is blurred some. It
appears to have two small attachments to it. It is not a bird
or plane. I have been a pro since 1970, and shot a lot of
outdoor shots. This was shot on a Nikon D100 digital camera,
using a 17 mm to 35 mm zoom lens. This is a quality camera and
lens. The lens costs more than the camera.

Neither is prone to malfunction, and the lens is known for it's
anti-flare. If you look closely at the image, you can see the
object in the sky is lit by the sun in the correct angle. In my
mind, this eliminates the malfunction theory. Thanks to Brian
Vike Photo posted at www.hbccufo.com .

Indiana =96 Flying Triangles

LAWRENCEBURG =96 On June 18, 2004, the observer reports seeing a
flying triangular object with five lights, four were yellowish
and one was a big red light at 2:16 AM. The flying triangle was
seen of two different occasions that night. The craft were very
loud but the sound came way before the craft was seen. Thanks
to Peter Davenport Director http://www.ufocenter.com/

Illinois =96 Light

WOODRIDGE -- The light was traveling at a low speed, and then
shook and took off about 10:45 PM, on June 13, 2004. The light
was traveling southwest for about nine seconds and either shook
or the light appeared to go dim then bright, and within a half
second, it shot off and disappeared. The witness also noticed
three satellites and a falling star a few minutes earlier.
Thanks to Peter Davenport Director http://www.ufocenter.com/

Oklahoma - Diamonds Not of This World

MCALESTER =96 A couple saw diamond objects flying above them that
seemed to be observing them. The wife first saw the objects at
midnight on June 13, 2004, as she tried to point them out to the
husband. He was unable to see because of a bright torch. The
objects moved to the southeast away from the torch and he was
able to see five glowing diamonds with four in formation, and
the fifth just behind. As they flew the fifth moved in front
very quickly. It was as though they knew I saw them. When my
wife saw them, they were about one hundred feet above us to the
northeast. They moved up and away at about 45% angle to about
one thousand feet in a short second. All the objects were
diamond shaped and glowed in the center. The observer states,
"I have always been skeptical of UFOs, but I was wrong this was
a close encounter of something unearthly." Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director http://www.ufocenter.com/

Texas =96 UFO Image

CORPUS CHRISTI BAY =96 The observer was out taking pictures on
Thursday, June 17, 2004, with a Sony 5 mega pixel digital
camera. There was nothing at all but clouds when he snapped the
picture at 8:45 PM. He stares, "I came in and uploaded them to
my PC and to my surprise this picture was in one of the shots...
the only thing I did was enhance and zoom in on it."  Thanks to
Darren Kurz Darrenk.nul

Colorado =96 Flying Triangle

PARKER -- I was driving home from A Perfect Circle concert, at
Red Rocks, when my friend and I noticed a strange bright orange
light fixed in the sky at the corner of Jordan and Main Street
on June 13, 2004. At 12:45 AM, I immediately stopped the car to
watch the glowing light. I was in the middle of the road and
there were no other cars around. Eventually the light got bigger
and we could tell it was coming towards us. A triangular craft
with red and blue lights slowly passed over head. It looked
really strange. I suppose it could've been some kind of jet...
but it was going slow and sounded different also. My friend and
I were quite sober and neither of us has ever seen anything like
this before. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

Arizona -Lights

PHOENIX -- About 10 PM on June 12, 2004, I witnessed a light
brighter than a star in the southern sky. The light got brighter
as it moved north, and then faded out. At first I dismissed the
light as aircraft and was about to look away when another light
appeared in the same spot the first one came from. The light
appeared the same as the first and duplicated the same flight
pattern, then faded out. This all happened in about 15-20
seconds. About a minute later I spotted two more lights
traveling side-by-side heading south at a very high speed.
Faster than any aircraft or satellites. The light on the right
veered off, and the left one flew at greater speed in a looping
turn and disappeared. I've always been a critic of people that
claim to see this type of stuff. I know what I saw was real.

PHOENIX - CBS 5 News reports that strange lights were spotted
after a power outage on Tuesday, June 22, 2004. A power surge
left up to 65-thousand Arizonan's in the dark and some are
pointing to strange lights in the skies as a possible link to
that massive outage. The disturbance was large enough to shut-
down all three units at the Palo Verde Nuclear Power Plant when
West Valley people spotted something strange hovering in the
sky. Less than 48 hours later in the same direction of the plant
a video captured a UFO. Astronomer, Steve Kates, known
throughout the Valley as "Dr. Sky" says he believes the video is
legit. This sighting is special and similar to the "Phoenix
Lights" sighting back in 1997.
http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=3D1958424 All content =A9
Copyright 2001 - 2004 WorldNow and News 5.

Utah - Two Transparent Triangles

SANDY --At 11 PM, on June 13, 2004, a couple and their two
cousins saw a transparent triangle shaped object fly over. It
was kind of fuzzy on the edges as the transparency did not go
all the way to the edge. There was no sound and there was no
emitted light. The sighting lasted all of about two seconds
before it disappeared from view behind some trees. We all said
"what the hell is that?" One cousin missed the craft and ran out
and pointed up. A smaller triangle had appeared in the sky and
was headed southeast. It looked like two shaded triangles that
may have been linked by a transparent piece. This one had more
speed and disappeared into the night sky. We all agreed on the
shape and transparency of the triangles. We also all agreed that
they appeared to be paper-thin. They made no noise at all, and
also made no apparent air disturbance. I will post drawings on
my web page. http://www.undergroundvine.net/ufo.

California - Humming Oval and Triangle Imaged

SAN LEANDRO -- Around 2:30 AM, my husband heard loud noise like
a humming or tuning fork noise and looked out our window to see
a black circle ship with small red lights on bottom on June 9,
2004. It was hovering over the tree tops moving very slowly.
 He said, "It looked like it was dispersing something that
looked like black orbs that were all around it." Then he watched
it speed up and fly over Lake Chabot Hills in Castro Valley and
then it disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

TORRANCE =96 The witness spotted high up in the sky a metal object
moving west with the sun reflecting off its surface on June 12,
2004. At 3:03 PM, two antique bi-planes flew at a lower altitude
over the car show near the Torrance Airport. The object moved
mostly west for seven minutes with the sun light reflecting off
its surface periodically. The high flying object would not show
up in the digital camera viewfinder.http://www.ufocenter.com/

SONORA -- Mark A. Olson was facing east and noticed a bright
flash on June 15, 2004, so he grabbed his camcorder and saw
something with three lights. These were not FAA lights! This
craft was seen in the DAYTIME! There were three lights in
triangular formation, but no craft could be seen. A few minutes
before I captured an airplane in the same vicinity and I could
clearly see its wings, tailfin, and even the engines, but the
triangular craft could not be seen, just the lights! The three
lights were recorded on my camcorder for about four minutes.
Video clearly shows these lights flying behind a pine tree and
after the sighting, I became ill. This is the SIXTH major
sighting in Sonora, in the past month. Mark has collected a
series of UFO shots that are worth seeing. Thanks to =A92004 Mark
A. Olson, D.M. Marks Website: http://www.sonorasightings.com/

MODESTO -- This ufo was hovering for a few seconds above my
house on June 18, 2004. It was rotating and changed shape,
almost as though something was protruding and retracting from
its side. When I looked at it through binoculars it appeared to
have a spin to it, rotating counterclockwise. I snapped the
picture before observing it with binoculars, and when I put the
binoculars down, I lost sight of it completely.  Thanks to R.
David Anderson

Oregon =96 Two Sightings

DALLES - Sighting #1 was in March 2004 around 7:45 AM, when the
witness was on his way to work he saw a pure white roundish
object crossed his path moving very slowly west. There was a
slight shadow that seemed to wrap around it horizontally. There
were no wings, no points, and no protrusions. It just seemed to
fade then disappear.

DUFUR - Sighting #2 - On June 10, 2004, at 5:47 PM, the witness
was on his way home from work and noticed heavy north to south
thick and dripping contrail (chemtrail) activity. He states,
"Above me was a round silver object just below the chemtrail, it
flew up, through the chemtrail, came out the other side and just
before it disappeared the sun glinted off it like a sparkle." I
was able to see that same horizontal band/shadow as the one had
in March. Both sightings were in the same vicinity. Thanks to
Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.com/

Washington - Silver Teardrop at 40 Feet

BURIEN =96 The witness reports seeing a silver, metallic object
five to ten feet across, shaped like a teardrop on its side,
moving about 40 feet off the ground above Highline Hospital on
June 13, 2004. The object was like a drop of mercury, moving in
direction of its wider end at 11:30 PM. Although the sky was
overcast, the object looked like it was reflecting the sun in a
bright area near the top of the object. It moved horizontally,
slowly, occasionally making quick vertical adjustments of 3 to
5 feet while maintaining a slow, steady northerly horizontal
course, parallel to the ground. The quick vertical adjustments
were not consistent with the wind or with the dynamics of a
balloon. The object drifted behind a tree, where it was lost to
view. The object made no sound, and didn't appear to frighten
birds that were plentiful in the area. We are within a mile of
SeaTac airport and turned on a scanner to see if ground control
or approaching pilots could see the craft, but I heard no
strange reports. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director

SEATTLE -- Cliff Mickelson reports, "Heavy meteor showers on
June 20, 2004; that Saturday, was one for the record books. The
new summer sky had scarcely darkened when a show of
unprecedented magnitude began! I've seen lots of meteors over
the years. I live near Mount Adams, Mount Rainier, Yakima
Valley; the triangle has produced some of the most spectacular
UFO sightings ever recorded. Nothing in the past could have
even remotely prepared me for what I, and a small group of
friends saw! What a show! It began with a rapid fire overture
of meteors. One after another, they blazed and burned with
increasing fury across the sky. From out of the southern
heavens, a rain of rocks from distant worlds hurtled down. One,
two, sometimes even as many as five meteors a minute, provided a
ceaseless pyrotechnic display. And then a bright blue-white
flash of light stunned us all. From out of the flash emerged a
bright, glowing, white, luminescent, object.

This is the form that UFO's commonly take in these parts. The
object quickly sped off across the firmament and behind it came
more! One after the other, we counted the emerging and
brilliantly white objects as they dispersed in all directions
across a night sky illuminated by a continuing backdrop of
 fiery rocks from the stars. In all, my group counted 25 UFO's
in the space of 10 minutes. They crossed the sky in a leisurely
fashion, and each seemed to have a singular destination. An
 impressive moment was beheld when several of the objects moved
out in formation, but they soon vectored to different
directions, some of them even crossing over each other in the
mix. My friends, we have visitors. We have LOTS of visitors. I
don't know where they are, or what they may look like,
but...They are here. And I wager, they are here for a purpose.
Thanks to CliffMickelson

Canada =96 Sighting Continue

NANOOSE BAY, B.C. =96 A couple was up to Nanoose flats on June 8,
2004, when they saw some flashing hovering lights in the sky at
10:58 PM. My husband said "Must be a helicopter." But there was
no sound. Then he said "Maybe it is a UFO," and he was serious.
We kept watching and it still did not move. After about five
minutes it began to move until it seemed to be right above our
vehicle. It was very high up and it was very large. It had very
bright lights, three large ones white, yellowish, red were
rotating back and forth so that when it was above our car, and I
could see that the bottom of this flying object was completely
filled in. Not long like an airplane. As the lights reflected
underneath it looked more triangular.

SAULT STE. MARIE, ON =96 The observer was gazing almost directly
overhead and saw a silver cigar UFO on June 10, 2004, at 9:15
AM., traveling in a straight horizontal direction from east to
west. The cigar made no sound and left no contrails. The
observer estimates the object was traveling at an altitude of
two kilometers with a rate of speed similar to that of a small
airplane. The cigar had no lights and was white-silver in color
and the sun reflected off of it. This was observed under a blue
sky with zero cloud cover and no wind. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director Australia - House-sized' Meteorite

ENANGLE -- On June 17, 2004, a meteorite reportedly the size
of a house fell on the NSW South Coast overnight, exploding in a
bright flash, police have said. A driver on the Hume Highway
shortly after 9 pm, near Menangle reported an object the size of
a house falling from the sky. The object fell east of the Hume
Highway, possibly in an escarpment near the top of a hill at
Bulli, police were told. The meteorite was described as glowing
silver in color and similar to an artillery shell when it
exploded with a bright flash on impact. Workers at the Sydney
Airport Tower said they saw a meteorite about 9 PM, police said.
No other reports were received by police and extensive police
patrols of the area for more than an hour did not turn up the
space debris. "We went out to check if it was something bad,
like a plane," said a police spokesman. "However we didn't find
anything - there was no bloody great rock sitting in the middle
of the highway, anyway". Thanks to the Australian News
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9869458%255E42=
1,00.html

New Zealand - Teardrop UFO

RUBY BAY, NELSON =96 The observer was down on the beach having a
smoke at 8 PM, looking out across the bay towards the Nelson
Harbor. He states, " On June 11, 2004, I saw a tear drop shaped
craft with spinning red lights beaming light into the water." I
sprinted to my friend's caravan and got him to look. The
teardrop made an electrical humming noise and a thundering sound
that could easily be heard by me and the residents of McKees
Domain, Ruby Bay. It moved closer towards the beach sending
beams of light across the bay. The craft moved at phenomenal
speeds and disappeared and reappeared in different places, it
moved up into the sky. The objects seemed to be interested in
the aircraft departing and landing at the Nelson Airport??=12 .

Over the next hour another six craft appeared in the sky that
looked like giant orbs of amber light and over the rest of the
night the objects moved around the area. The objects came in
close and shot off randomly over the rest of the night until
morning. Other camping ground residents also saw it and some
reported flat batteries in their cars and dead fish being washed
up on the beach in Ruby Bay. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

NELSON, B.C. =96 A couple was traveling north along the Kootenay
River on Highway 3A on June 16, 2004, when they saw an egg
shaped object which sat stationary over the River at 11:55 PM.
Around the center of the egg was a broken ring of blue lights
which were very bright, but not flashing. The object was 500 to
600 feet above the river. The husband wanted to stop to
investigate, but due to his wife being frighten they kept moving
but at a slower pace. A short distance down the highway his wife
looked behind and it disappeared. The husband estimates the
object had a completely smooth surface that was 40 to 50 feet in
length. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.com/

BURLINGTON, ONTARIO -- Mr. Johnston Hunter reports, "I took the
picture from my 9th floor balcony using a Canon A70 camera at
2048x1536 Res, I have zoomed it to 20275 x 15206 the max my
IrfanView photo software can go, it doesn't look like a plane
nor a bird." Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.com/ UFO is
just above cloud!

Colombia =96 Light

LA CEJA (ANTIOQUIA) -- It was a clear night at 8:30 PM, on June
13, 2004, when, observers saw a red light moving from the north
to the south. We thought it was a paper globe or an anti
guerilla black hawk helicopter, but suddenly it changed its
direction to east very fast, and then it disappeared at the
horizon. The sighting was reported to Columbia Air
Administration and they said they haven't seen any object in
their radar screens.

UK/England - Cylinder and Red Arrows

EMLEY MOOR =96 Five strange flying objects were spotted in perfect
formation by Examiner readers at about 3 PM yesterday. The red
arrows type fly-by of Emley Moor is so far unexplained. Mark
Windle, who took a photo, said: "It looked to me as if they were
objects that were burning up in the atmosphere." There was
another plane in the sky and it looked different." "We usually
have planes flying past but not in such a regular formation," he
said. "It was very strange." Thanks to the Huddersfield Daily
Examiner

SOUTHAMPTON -- The observers were a System Migration Manager
(Engineering) and an assistant Marketing Director who saw a long
cylindrical tube, silver grey in color moving slowly across the
sky on June 13, 2004. The object turned vertically at 11 PM,
and climbed before returning to a horizontal position. It then
turned again and climbed through light cloud cover and
eventually disappeared from view after twenty minutes. It was a
clear day and we managed to capture the object on film, with
five shots with a digital camera. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Director http://www.ufocenter.com/

Portugal - Many Moving Lights

VILA NOVA DE GAIA (PORTO) =96 Three friends were on the top of a
hill on June 11, 2004, having a picnic when one told them to
look at the sky at 10:20 PM. They saw a small light, very high
in the sky that appeared above the atmosphere moving at a
moderate speed. It changed direction four times and then the
light dimmed and disappeared. After some minutes we saw another
similar light moving towards the opposite direction, then we saw
another one in the same direction as the first, we saw about 10
to 15 lights moving in the sky in four different directions. One
witness states, "When I attempted to take photos and pointed the
camera the lights dimmed immediately, so I put it away." Thanks
to Peter Davenport Director http://www.ufocenter.com/

Serbia =96 Light Balls

KRUSEVAC =96 Two friends looked in the sky at 10:35 PM, and saw
something like fireworks with seven to nine red or orange balls
of light that did not move on June 11, 2004. They tried to take
a photo with their phone, but they disappeared as he tried to
shoot. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

Pakistan =96 Flying Triangle

HYDERABAD -- On June 11, 2004, on a hot night two friends were
chatting and heard the sound of a jet fighter on patrol at 8:15
PM. There were four lights and with three lights in the corners
and one in the middle. Judging by the position of the lights
they thought it was a flying triangle although the lights could
have been in a circle. The lights looked like searchlights in a
cricket or football stadium. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

Australia - House-sized' Meteorite

MENANGLE -- On June 17, 2004, a meteorite reportedly the size
of a house fell on the NSW South coast overnight, exploding in a
bright flash, police have said. A driver on the Hume Highway
shortly after 9 pm, near Menangle reported an object the size of
a house falling from the sky. The object fell east of the Hume
Highway, possibly in an escarpment near the top of a hill at
Bulli, police were told. The meteorite was described as glowing
silver in color and similar to an artillery shell when it
exploded with a bright flash on impact. Workers at the Sydney
Airport Tower said they saw a meteorite about 9 PM, police said.
 No other reports were received by police and extensive police
patrols of the area for more than an hour did not turn up the
space debris. "We went out to check if it was something bad,
like a plane," said a police spokesman. "However we didn't find
anything - there was no bloody great rock sitting in the middle
of the highway, anyway". Thanks to the Australian News
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9869458%255E42=
1,00.html

New Zealand - Teardrop UFO

RUBY BAY, NELSON =96 The observer was down on the beach having a
smoke at 8 PM, looking out across the bay towards the Nelson
Harbor. He states, " On June 11, 2004, I saw a tear drop shaped
craft with spinning red lights beaming light into the water." I
sprinted to my friend's caravan and got him to look. The
teardrop made an electrical humming noise and a thundering sound
that could easily be heard by me and the residents of McKees
Domain, Ruby Bay. It moved closer towards the beach sending
beams of light across the bay. The craft moved at phenomenal
speeds and disappeared and reappeared in different places, it
moved up into the sky. The objects seemed to be interested in
the aircraft departing and landing at the Nelson Airport.

Over the next hour another six craft appeared in the sky that
looked like giant orbs of amber light and over the rest of the
night the objects moved around the area. The objects came in
close and shot off randomly over the rest of the night until
morning. Other camping ground residents also saw it and some
reported flat batteries in their cars and dead fish being washed
up on the beach in Ruby Bay. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director
http://www.ufocenter.com/

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE! Get your free
report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 24

                            Alistair Sutherland?

From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:59:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:53:30 -0400
Subject: Alistair Sutherland?


From: Malcolm Robinson <spi_spi.nul>


Hi,

Just wondering if anyone knows the current whereabouts (contact
information) of one Alistair Sutherland. This chap took the
photographs of the ground marks in the famous Scottish UFO
'landing'(!) case - The Livingston Incident 1979?

I am currently working with an Independant television company
and we need to track down where Alistair currently resides. Any
help on this matter would be welcomed and appreciated.

With thanks.

Malcolm Robinson (Founder SPI UK)  www.spiuk.net


Malcolm Robinson - Founder SPI Scotland-England
5 Bedford Villas,
Wrthye Green Road,
Carshalton,
Surrey, SM5 2QT
UK

Tel: (Home after 7:00pm) 020 8669 3974.
(Mobile) 07949 178 835
SPI Web site: www.spiuk.net
E-mail: spi_spi.nul

British UFO & Paranormal Research, 'Getting Involved'

SPI hold monthly lectures in London on UFOs and the Paranormal,
e-mail Malcolm at spi_spi.nul for more info.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 24

                   Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate? - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:05:23 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:55:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate? - Tonnies


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:57:47 -0300
>Subject: Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate?

<snip>

>I found out Tuesday at about 5:00pm from the Boston airport that
>Seth Shostak had developed pneumonia and we wouldn't be debating
>last night. Should know when it is rescheduled for very soon.

>My flight from Boston to Fredericton was delayed so I didn't get
>home until 12:30am this morning... still plenty of time for the
>debate.

>I guess people will do anything to avoid a debate, but pneumonia
>seems a bit much. <VBG>

Does this mean you win by default? ;-)

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

New book: "After the Martian Apocalypse"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/074348293X








   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 24

                            2004 Humanoid Updates

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:47:44 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:21:30 -0400
Subject: 2004 Humanoid Updates


We began the year 2004 with a bizarre encounter in Chile and one
in Mexico involving a law enforcement officer.

1.
Location. Ivanovo, Russia
Date: January 1 2004 Time: 0100A
The main witness and two friends were celebrating the advent of
a new year, but had only drank a little bit of champagne and
were out walking the streets. The men suddenly noticed a large
orange sphere that seemed to descend and approach their
position. The sphere then hovered above some nearby fir trees.
As the men stared at it, the main witness looked around and
spotted a strange "person" some meters away, which immediately
he realized that it was not normal or human. It had what
appeared to be a "snout" and was staring at the witness in a
mocking grin. It then turned sideways and the witness was
stunned to see that completely flat in appearance, like it had
been run over by an asphalt roller. At this time the witness
felt a strong invisible wave that struck him and knocked him
down against the icy ground. As he got up the sphere and the
strange humanoid had disappeared he turned to his friends, who
apparently had not seen the humanoid but saw the orange sphere.

HC addendum
Source: X-Libri UFO Russia, quoting "Chronometer" Magazine
1-13-2004. Type: C?


2.
Location. Rome Italy
Date: January 1 2004 Time: 1600
A public servant on his way back home sighted a strange object
resembling a wedge without wings emitting different tones of
orange light. The object remained suspended overhead briefly
before moving away at high speed. Later that same day as the
witness was lying in bed he suddenly felt himself totally
immobile, although totally aware of his surroundings. He was
able to open his eyes and saw standing before him a humanoid
face, green in color with large black eyes staring at him.
During the incident he heard a strong "metallic" buzzing sound.
When he was suddenly able to move he attempted to strike the
figure in front of him but it suddenly vanished in plain sight.

HC addendum
Source: Roberto Malini, Italy Type: E


3.
Location. Near Naugatuck, Connecticut
Date: January 3 2004 Time: 2230
The witness was driving on state road 68 west, up a lonely hill
when his headlights caught sight of a strange creature running
into the woods. The stopped his car and looked at the creature,
which resembled a walking tree, two shades of brown, its head
had a beak like a bird with many protruding teeth, and a strange
crest-like protrusion on top of its head. Terrified the witness
drove home. The following week driving on the same hill the
witness saw another strange creature, thin in color and glowing
green, the head was like a lizard and on its back it carried
something resembling a backpack, which had a transparent
canister filled with the glowing green liquid, the creature
briefly walked towards the witness up an embankment but stopped
and disappeared into the woods, as it did the strange creature
appeared to turn transparent. Soon after that the witness was
driving up the same hill when his windshield went dark,
something was on the hood obstructing his sight, whatever it was
it was a creature with many white square teeth, he also saw the
creature's feet, which appeared sinewy and gray in color. The
creature then jumped from the hood and started walking alongside
the road, it had extremely long arms, and seemed to drag them on
the ground, the creature stopped and began gesticulating with
its long arms, at this point the witness noticed a similar
creature sitting on the ground staring at the witness, the eyes
of the creatures were black the size of a grapefruit, and both
had large pointy ears. The witness thought that another creature
was coming up behind him and looked back when suddenly the area
was illuminated by a strong white light, he drove on for about
50 ft and then looked back, and again saw the bizarre bird-like
creature standing on the road looking at him, it was six ft
tall, with square patches of red and yellow on it. The witness
eventually drove away without looking back.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC Type: E


4.
Location. Viluco, Chile
Date: January 5 2004 Time: 0515A
40-year old driver Juan Berrios was on his on an errand on Santa
Filomena Street on his way to Las Vertientes terminal when at
about 70 meters in front of his car he noticed a strange figure
standing on the middle of the road. He rubbed his eyes and then
saw nothing and kept on driving, at about 5 meters away the
bizarre figure again appeared. Stunned at what he was seeing
Berrios almost lost control of his vehicle as he swerved around
the figure almost upending the vehicle. The strange creature had
what appeared to be the carcass of a bloodied dog clutched in
his jaws. The creature suddenly jumped and disappeared into the
brush. Berrios described the creature as about 1.50m in height,
with large hind legs like a kangaroo, small curved front arms
that ended in claw like protrusions, a spiky dorsal fin on its
back, and a tail resembling that of a rattler on a snake. The
facial features were also bizarre; it had a wolf-like snout,
several sharp rows of teeth, and fierce-looking red eyes. It
jumped a height of about 5 meters and disappeared from sight.

HC addendum
Source: Juan Maulen, quoting La Cuarta Newspaper
January 29 2004 Type: E


5.
Location. Wise County, Texas
Date: January 12 2004 Time: night
A young girl reported encountering a large black bird-like
creature outside a schoolyard in Wise County. No other
information.

HC addendum
Source: Ericca Cordier, Dean Stermer, Conspiracy Caf=E9 Type: E


6.
Location. Jordanow, Poland
Date: January 13 2004 Time: 0258A
48-year old, L K was lying in bed with his face turned towards
the window. Suddenly he woke up with a strange feeling that
something odd was happening in the street. He opened his eyes
and noticed a ball, which was hanging in the sky. It shone with
a white-blue silvery light---like the moon---but it was 2-3
times bigger than the moon. He immediately looked at the clock
and noticed the time. He looked around the bedroom and saw his
wife and dog sleeping calmly. The witness then felt very dizzy
and went to sleep again. That same night he had another strange
experience. While in a half-awake state in his bed he heard a
strange female voice, which repeated a passage read in an
unknown language (the witness is an interpreter and speaks five
foreign languages fluently). Feeling afraid he covered his head
with a pillow. He immediately checked all the electrical devices
in the room but they were all turned off, except for the icebox.
His wife and dog again slept calmly. The witness also heard the
strange voice the next night.

HC addendum
Source: Robert K Lesniakiewicz, Poland  Type: F?


7.
Location. Capilla del Monte, Cordoba, Argentina
Date: January 14 2004 Time: 2230
A 14-year old boy, Juan Pablo, was standing in his garden when
suddenly he spotted a short humanoid, wearing a red jumpsuit,
red cap and carrying a staff, walking along the Avenida Las
Gemelas towards a place called "Aguas de los Palos". The lighted
road allowed Juan Pablo to observe as the short figure briskly
walked away and disappeared from sight. The witness became
afraid and ran into his home.

HC addendum
Source: Proyecto CATENT, Argentina Type: E

8.
Location. Valles de la Silla, Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Date: January 16 2004 Time: 0315A
21-year old police officer Leonardo Samaniego Gallegos was
patrolling a section of Alamo Street when he observed what
appeared to be the figure of a woman totally dressed in a black
cloak-like outfit descend from a nearby tree towards his patrol
car. She appeared to float towards the car at very high speed.
She had large black eyes without any pupils. Terrified he drove
away from the area but was chased by the flying apparition. He
called for assistance over his police radio. The tree the
strange figure descended from was about 6 meters high. The
strange flying creature approached the police car and impacted
onto the front windshield pushing it inward, apparently trying
to get in using what appeared to be large pointy claws at this
point Gallegos lost consciousness. In the videotaped interview
officer Gallegos describes the eyes and black gown as in the
news article but adds the description of a "helmet" or headpiece
it was wearing that curved downward to a point at the back of
the creature's head. Also, a police officer from Santa Catarina,
Jorge Contreras declared that he and two more policemen from the
Regia police saw exactly the same flying being that officer
Samaniego saw, but three days before. They saw it flying and
decided not to say anything---until they heard about Samaniego's
case. Norma Alicia Herrera who lives in Colonia La Playa
declared in a TV interview that she and her brother also saw the
flying humanoid at daytime and that it looked weird. She said
that her brother was so stunned by the sighting that he was sick
for almost a week afterwards. Another neighbor in that sector
also videotaped several days before, a strange flying humanoid
and gave the video to the TV station.

HC addendum
Source: John Velez, Abduction Information Center quoting
Newspaper sources and Santiago Yturria  Type: E


9.
Location. London, England
Date: January 16 2004 Time: late night
In the middle of the night the witness, Jim, (involved in
previous encounters) suddenly found himself wide-awake. A loud
buzzing sound filled his ears. He was curled up on his bed in a
fetal position facing the closest wall. He felt a force push on
the back of his head. It did not hurt but felt extremely
uncomfortable. Again he heard the now familiar "clicking" sound
in his head. This time it panned from his right ear to the left.
He looked at his arm and it was covered in a bluish purplish
pulsating energy. He could not move his legs and arms; he could
just move his head. Somehow he managed to break free and used
all his effort to turn around. Standing before him in the center
of the bedroom was some kind of short humanoid creature, with a
large mantis/fly looking head. A beam of energy seemed to be
shooting from the alien to the witness. Thousands of thoughts
entered his head at the same time. Strangely he felt no fear and
felt as he had known the strange being all his life, but also
felt that he had been somehow manipulated into feeling this. He
then heard a slow deep voice, almost overwriting all his other
thoughts. It seemed to be communicating telepathically. It said
in an abrupt manner, "Now do you understand?" "Yes" the witness
found himself answering, but he had no idea why he said that.
"Good" It replied. The witness then turned his head back to the
wall and shut his eyes. The buzzing sound stopped and he felt
extremely tired. He then collapsed and lost consciousness. He
described the creature as humanoid, 5 ft 5 inches in height. Its
head was huge in relation to its body. Its eyes were extremely
large, shiny, and insect-like and were supported by big sockets.
His first impression was that it looked like a cross between a
praying mantis and a fly. The being appeared to be surrounded by
a bluish purplish field of energy. In the center of its cloak
was a golden badge, there was definitely a design or symbol on
it, but the witness could not make it out. He looked closer at
the head and it had two protrusions between the eyes and a mass
of protrusions was in the area where a mouth would normally be.
The witness woke up the next day feeling very tired.

HC addendum
Source: Martin Jasek, UFO BC Type: E

It did not take long for another bizarre entity report to
surface this one from Indiana.


10.
Location. Manchester, Dearborn County, Indiana
Date: January 24 2004 Time: 1930
A 17-year old motorist traveling almost 10 miles north of Aurora
Indiana on Saturday night claims to have encountered an unusual
figure on the road. While driving his black Chevrolet Cavalier
southbound along North Hogan Road a "figure" was spotted in the
headlights of the automobile as it was crouched down near a
puddle of water. From the driver's perspective the figure was
spotted out the windshield on the right of the car. After
passing the frail-looking figure, the driver looked into his
rear view mirror and again observed---illuminated by the
taillights of his car---what he described as a tall, abnormal
figure that moved strangely with pointed joints that "buckled
out". He estimated the figure stood around 6 feet, seven inches.
"It had protruding joints and moved very strangely." The driver
said he was able to ascertain the figure, alleged to be dark
gray or black and "pencil thin" stand up and take several steps
toward the woods along the roadside. The figure definitely
walked on two legs and was thought somehow, to be a male,
although no clothing was noted. No face or eyes could be seen,
but the witness had the impression that the figure was looking
straight at him. The figure was immediately thought to be
something out of the ordinary, not a human being. The duration
of the sighting was "hurried" and possibly within the 3 to 4
second range. The driver continued on for a small distance after
passing the figure and finally put on his brakes, coming to a
stop at an estimated 2 minute walking distance on the road from
the location of the sighting. He looked back to further observe
the entity. At that point, a second car came into view and
approached from the opposite direction, passed and then reached
the spot on the road where the figure was thought to be. The 17-
year old motorist reportedly watched closely and observed the
second car undertake what he thought to be an evasive maneuver
near the vicinity of where he thought the figure would be
situated, then the car turned around at that spot and shortly
pulled up behind him, somewhat in the grass. There was an
elderly couple in the car, both in their late 60s or early 70s
and both with gray hair. The driver, who wore glasses said,
"Boy, did you see something back there? I'll tell you right now,
that was no person." The passenger, an elderly female said, "It
was no human being. It was no man." The elderly couple were
reportedly "spooked" but offered to follow the first witness the
remainder of the trip down North Hogan Road, clearly in the
opposite direction of their intended destination route. It was
thought that the elderly couple observed this same figure on the
opposite side of the road, and possibly had observed it more
closely. Later, the 17-year old witness was said to have become
hysterical, and within an hour was describing the figure as an
"alien".

HC addendum
Source: Kenny Young, Florence Kentucky, UFO Research,
Bob Leibold, Natural Light Productions Cincinnati  Type: E


11.
Location. Salisbury East, South Australia
Date: January 27 2004 Time: 0230A
The witness (involved in other encounters) had gone into his
bedroom to get ready for bed and had the immediate feeling that
he was not alone in his bedroom. It was a warm night so he slept
on top of the bedding. At 0230A he woke up for no apparent
reason and all of the sudden a strange feeling overcame him as
if time had stopped. (He had felt the same in the previous
encounters). There was no sound anywhere and not a bit of
movement in the room. As he laid on his bed feeling very relaxed
he was grabbed by the left and right arms between the elbows and
shoulders and pulled down into his bed. It was as if something
was under his bed and its arms were coming through the bed. At
this stage he was not worried but his legs started to rise
together and he could not stop them. He attempted to break the
grip but was grasped even tighter. He began to struggle and to
yell obscenities. The witness then yelled "go to the light" "go
beneath the earth" until he was set free. He now felt calm. Then
all of the sudden he was grabbed in the same way and he felt an
electric current travel through his body, his legs began to rise
up again. He then saw lots of movement in his room and saw a
hand similar to a "frogs foot" or a gecko lizard foot,
apparently reptilian in nature. His legs went right over and he
seemed to have passed out. He woke up at 0700A feeling ill and
with terrible back pain. He felt drained and could not eat
breakfast. His eyes were red and later he found bruises on his
stomach and chest. On all the encounters the witness feels like
his bedroom has somehow been "detached" from the house and taken
somewhere else.

HC addendum
Source: Paranormal Australia, investigations  Type: E


12.
Location. Leona Vicario, Yucatan, Mexico
Date: January 28 2004 Time: midnight
Maria Luisa Fernandez Morales a residents living in the
outskirts of the city reported that an unknown creature killed
at least 50 of her hens, which she kept in her backyard. The
witness, who sold chickens for a living heard a loud ruckus
coming from the pen and ran out only to confront a very strange
creature similar to a "tiger" but bipedal in nature and emitting
loud grunting sounds. According to the witness the mysterious
creature jumped over a wire fence and ran from the area leaving
a trail of blood behind. It only took several minutes for the
creature to kill the chickens. Also residents from the town of
Texan Palomeque have reported seeing what they describe as a
"wolf-woman", which has also killed and decapitated hundreds of
chickens in area.

HC addendum
Source: Martin Morita, Grupo Reforma, Mexico  Type: E


13.
Location. Texan Palomeque, Yucatan, Mexico
Date: January 29 2004 Time: night
Numerous locals have seen a bizarre creature dubbed the
"wolfwoman" and it is said to be responsible for the slaying of
hundreds of farm birds. Some who has seen it describe it as
about 5 ft tall, walking on two legs, hairy and with glowing red
eyes. About 100 people armed with rifles and flashlights
searched the area for the alleged humanoid. Benito Canul a 45-
year old worker living outside the city of Uman said he managed
to fire at the strange being outside his house on the way to the
cemetery, he is unsure if he hit it. "The creature was dog
shaped but with glowing red eyes" Benito said.

HC addendum
Source: Scott Corrales, Gloria Coluchi Type: E


14.
Location. Chicxulub, Yucatan, Mexico
Date: January 29 2004 Time: late night
Local residents have reported seeing a creature described as
resembling a huge creature with horse-like legs, and covered in
gray colored hair. It is said that from the waist up the
creature resembles a woman and emits a loud chirping sound like
that of a bat. Numerous mutilated dog carcasses have been found
in the area, also that of chickens and cats. 16-year old
Patricia Figueroa Ponce was watching television one night when
she heard loud "chirping" noises coming from the backyard, she
ran to the kitchen after hearing her farm animals shriek in an
agitated manner, and her dogs acted afraid and nervous. She
looked out the window and saw a bizarre creature resembling a
huge dog, but with half of its body human in appearance.
Terrified she yelled for her mother but when both ran outside
the strange creature had disappeared. Some of the local
residents claim that the creature is actually a witch from the
nearby city of Conkal who had been practicing black magic and
had somehow transformed itself.

HC addendum
Source: Alberto Arias Colli, "Diario de Yucatan-Merida"
Mexico February 1 2004 Type: E


15.
Location. Mexico City, Mexico
Date: January 31 2004 Time: 1850
On the eastern section of the city Mexican photographer Salvador
Guerrero videotaped a strange dark flying humanoid shaped that
flew at an estimated 3,000 meters altitude over the area, moving
from west to east. It flew at a speed considerable lower than an
airplane. He could clearly see that the humanoid was moving its
arms and was wearing a very dark outfit. He was in the company
of Enrique Yonka when he took the video. Compare with the
encounter of the Mexican police officer that was attacked by a
flying humanoid earlier on the month.

HC addendum
Source: Prof. Ana Luisa Cid Fernandez, "El Durmiente de Orizaba"        Type: E


16.
Location. Near Joao Pessoa, Paraiba, Brazil
Date: January 31 2004 Time: night
23-year old Alan Flavio was visiting the farm of his
girlfriend's cousin and late one evening he and the cousin were
rounding up some stray cattle in the outer areas of the farm.
Soon they had stopped to rest when Flavio noticed that the
horses were a little restless he looked around and saw movement
in the nearby brush. He caught a quick glimpse of a figure, he
described as "graphite" in color with long thin but strong legs.
It quickly scurried behind some trees and disappeared from
sight. Later that night sometime after midnight as he slept in
the farmhouse he suddenly woke up feeling a strong hand pushing
on his chest. He was paralyzed and could not move or speak. He
then noticed a dark figure, human in shape standing over him. It
seemed to emit a strong influence over the witness, which
totally controlled him. The whole time his girlfriend and cousin
slept in the next room and was not in any way disturbed. Soon
the dark human-shaped figure vanished and he was able to move
again.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Genesis, Brazil Type: E


17.
Location. Near Romeral, Chile
Date: late January 2004 Time: 0600A
Roberto Ayar Rojas, Maribel Arnaiz Cazaux and their daughter,
Daphane were driving on an isolated road surrounded by woods
when suddenly a bizarre creature appeared on the road ahead on
them. The creature stood on two feet; it was totally covered
with hair, and had bright red eyes. The creature stood bent
forward on two large hind legs similar to a kangaroo. It had two
small "hands" which it moved very rapidly. Once the creature
spotted the witness car it seemed afraid, it suddenly jumped at
incredible speed into the woods. The husband and wife pair had
meanwhile stopped the car and after recovering from the shock it
drove quickly away from the area. They later reported that what
scared them the most was the two large protruding fangs from the
creature's upper mandible. The witnesses felt that the creature
bounded away in an "unnatural" manner. Thankfully their daughter
slept during the encounter. In the nearby town of Buin another
motorist struck a similar creature apparently without hurting it
and hairs possibly belonging to creature were found on the
scene.

HC addendum
Source: Liliana Nu=F1ez, Hector Cossio L Type: E


18.
Location. Piaui, Northeastern Brazil
Date: February 2004 Time: night
A woman accompanied by another family member were washing
clothing at the edge of a river when they noticed movement
amongst the thick foliage across from their location. They were
then stunned to see two strange hairy humanoids about 1.50m in
height come out of the woods. The humanoids had long dangling
arms and were covered from head to two by thick black hair. Both
had red glowing eyes. Terrified both witnesses fled the area.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Genesis, Brazil Type: E


19.
Location. Lake Downy Park near Orlando, Florida
Date: February 6 2004 Time: 2045
The witness was cat fishing in a lake just east of downtown
Orlando when he had the feeling that something was watching him
for about 5 minutes. He kept looking around but saw nothing. It
was very dark but there was some moonlight present. He heard
footsteps in the marsh on the side of the lake near the dock he
was fishing from and then he saw and heard a ripple of water
near the shore. Then he saw two stork-like legs and a head
watching him. It looked right at him, feeling very scared the
witness yelled out. The figure then stood up, like a man the
witness size or so and stared him dead in the eyes. He went to
run off the dock but when he did so, the figure walked at a slow
pace toward the end of the dock apparently in an effort to cut
him off. He dialed 911 (apparently on his cell phone) and they
told him to stay put that the police were on the way. The
creature or figure apparently then disappeared. He is convinced
that what he saw was not human and not a native animal.

HC addendum
Source: Peter Davenport UFO Center Type: E


20.
Location. Maryland, exact location not given
Date: February 12 2004 Time: afternoon
Virginia and her husband had retired and purchased a home near
the Maryland coast, the house was 85 years old and needed some
major repairs. Most of the repairs involved an interior
facelift. A small room with an old desk and empty file cabinets
on the second floor of the two story home was slated to become a
part of a larger room next to it with the removal of a wall.
Some old suitcases, empty packing crates and other debris had
been left in there as well. With contractor work scheduled to
begin within a few days, Virginia, her husband and two friends
went to work removing everything from the small room. They moved
the desk and file cabinets out first, and then began bundling up
the old suitcases and various pieces of debris left in the
corners, of the small room. While the four worked, Virginia
began to feel a bit sick to her stomach. Her husband and friends
complained of similar feelings over the next few moments. Before
any of them had time to consider their sudden, unexplained
illness, an odd green mist filled one corner of the room. As all
present were focused on the green mist, they could see a human
form taking shape. It looked like a man dressed in what all
agreed later was a sailor's white uniform. It did not appear to
be a modern uniform, but one that might have been worn 50 or 60
years ago. None were familiar with Naval uniforms, but the group
came to this conclusion after viewing photos of US sailors from
the 40's. Within seconds, the man became solid and started to
move a bit. Virginia's husband had been an electrician for years
before he retired and noted t hat he smelled the odor of over-
heated circuitry in conjunction with the sailor's appearing.
Before anyone could say or do anything, the sailor looked at the
group and said, "2005. Watch out for 2005! They're playing with
your future!" After that, the sailor faded into the wall and the
green mist dissipated in less than ten seconds. All agreed later
that they had heard his voice and everyone heard the same thing.
They described the sailor's voice as deep and full, but sounding
a bit muffled.

HC addendum
Source: Bill Knell, May 1 2004  Type: E
Comments: The source indicates that there is a possible
connection with this incident and the alleged "Philadelphia
Experiment" episode and the Montauk Point conundrum.


21.
Location. Jordanow, Poland
Date: February 13 2004 Time: 0100A
77-year old Mrs. K J woke up late at night and went to the
lavatory and back to her bedroom, as she passed through the
kitchen she was surprised to see a strong flame-orange light,
which floated in the sky. She quickly realized that it couldn't
be the moon. The light had the shape of a hemisphere, the upper
part was rounded and its bottom was flat. The light was 2-3
times bigger than the full moon. The witness states that the
light hung above the forest over Hajdowka hill, which was 1.5 km
from her house. She watched for about 5 minutes and felt dizzy
and then she went to bed. During the night she had a disturbing
"dream" about a strange meeting with a huge shiny "thing". She
awoke feeling very frightened around 0630A.

HC addendum
Source: Robert K Lesniakiewicz, Poland Type: F?


22.
Location. Elkader, Iowa
Date: February 15 2004 Time: 2300
The witness was returning to her house after finishing a late
night farm chore when something caught her eye as she almost
reached her door. To her left she saw a "thing" running very
fast about 30 yards away from her, not comprehending what she
was seeing, she could only describe the entity as looking like a
"stick man." It seemed to turn its head over his left shoulder
and look straight at her, and then it took off in a sprint
towards her front door. Very upset the witness ran inside and
locked all the doors. It took her 2 hours to calm down; she
began to sob so hard that she started to hyperventilate. She
never told anyone, including her family about what she had seen.
She felt that the "thing" wanted her to see it, for some unknown
reason.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC  Type: E
Comments: I cannot help but notice the similarity in
descriptions of the entities with this case and the January 24
Indiana case.


23.
Location. Spokane, Washington
Date: February 16 2004 Time: 0300A
The witness was in bed when he was awoken by a sound at his
window. He tried to move but couldn't. A shadowy figure shaped
somewhat like a human but all black like a shadow loomed over
him and grabbed him. He felt that he could not breath and then
passed out. Later he awoke to the words "he has (unintelligible)
send him back". It felt like he had an IV in his arm. His next
memory was of being back in his bedroom at 0500A. He has no
other memories of the event.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC Type: G



24.
Location. Chaco, Saenz Pe=F1a, Argentina
Date: February 21 2004 Time: late night
26-year old Liliana Nievas was sitting in her patio with her
boyfriend when suddenly several "cascotazos" (a sort of rock or
brick abundant in the area) fell on the two apparently coming
from an area behind the patio. Liliana went alone to investigate
when she came upon a short dark "man", which began to pummel her
and attempted to drag her away. She could only describe the
entity as short, dark and shadowy, which covered her mouth and
began to drag her on the ground. Hearing her screams, several
neighbors, family members, and her boyfriend ran to find the
woman lying on the ground suffering facial injuries. She kept
screaming that "he is trying to drag me away" as the astounded
group watched as a mysterious force indeed seemed to pull her
away, however they did not see anybody. Finally with the help of
her boyfriend and others they managed to hold Liliana down and
the force seemed to release her. She was taken to a local
hospital suffering from grievous injuries. Others in the area
reported being pelted by bricks and another witness reported
seeing a shadowy entity stealing fruit from his backyard.

HC addendum
Source: Planeta UFO Groups, quoting "Norte Edicion Digital"
Sunday February 22 2004, Chaco, Argentina Type: E


25.
Location. Hampshire, England
Date: February 21 2004 Time: 2300
Emily Parkinson was lying in bed when a bright white light
suddenly was reflected in her mirror. Instantly she sat up
terrified and went to the window to see whether it was her
husband coming home. She then saw a figure of approximately 6 ft
in height standing on her lawn. It seemed to have huge eye on
its stomach (?) resembling huge black circles that seemed to
pierce the witness head with an incredibly high-pitched sound.
She was fixed to the spot with terror, as the strange creature
seemed to slowly dissolve from view.

HC addendum
Source: I Was abducted.com, UFO Reports Type: E
Comments: I wonder if any additional details on the humanoid are
available, it could have been a Mothman type creature.


26.
Location. Boca de Chila, Nayarit, Mexico
Date: February 26 2004 Time: 0130A
Several local inhabitants reported hearing a very loud booming
noise over the area and what appeared to be a metallic object
falling into the beach area. For a while they did not approach
the supposed crash site because of fear. However others reported
that the object was huge and disc-shaped, apparently metallic,
without windows or wings. Soon after the "crash" members of the
Mexican Territorial Army cordoned off the area and warned local
inhabitants not to approach the area. Others have reported
seeing similar disc-shaped craft flying at a high altitude over
the area.

HC addendum
Source: Ovnis Mexico Forums Type: H?
Comments: It is necessary to obtain additional information on
this intriguing case; so far none is available yet.


27.
Location. Chann Kalan, Pakistan
Date: February 26 2004 Time: evening
Constable Jagdish Parishad who on Thursday was keeping vigil on
the international border had seen a flying object like a hot
balloon carrying three persons who disembarked after landing in
Pakistani territory. Since the constable had never seen a para-
glider, fan glider or even a hot air balloon during his service
tenure, it is difficult to ascertain the authenticity of the
matter. Just prior to the UFO sighting Pakistani troops backed
by helicopter gunships and artillery detained 20 people in raids
against suspected Al-Qaeda hideouts in a tribal region bordering
Afghanistan.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Roundup Vol. 9 # 9 Type: B?


28.
Location. Araraquara, Brazil
Date: early March 2004 Time: late night
On a very cold night, the witness, Marina was in her room
reading a book when she heard loud scratching noises on her
window. Startled she looked at the window and saw a bizarre
entity with a very large head and strange red eyes. The entity
stared at Marina and mumbled some words, which Marina thought it
meant for her to come and open the window because he wanted to
talk to her. In a trance-like state she opened the window and
the entity then spoke the following words, "Humans less and less
value their planet, and each day that goes by they destroy the
planet a little more, humans do not realize that they are
destroying themselves also." Moments later the entity vanished.

HC addendum
Source: www.sobrenatural.org Type: E
Comments: Important warning that we have been ignoring for
decades now. We will reap what we sow.


29.
Location. Monte Maiz, Cordoba, Argentina
Date: March 2004 Time: various
A silhouette of a man who walks on rooftops, drags heavy chains
and makes strange noises turned into a disquieting "phantom"
that has made residents of Monte Maiz restless. Opinions on the
"phantom" are diametrically opposed, since some claim having see
"a figure standing over 2 meters tall, dressed in black and with
spectacular agility" while others say its all imagination. The
local residents call it "the phantom". Those who have seen it
say that it is a young person, very tall and slim, with red eye.
It dresses in white, sometimes black and others gray. Always
wear a hat and covers its face with a mask or hood. The sounds
on the rooftops begin after 2100 hours, as do the calls to the
police. Residents claim that it walks on the roof, shuffles and
runs, drags chains, scratches at windows and bangs at doors. It
doesn't speak or yell---it has only been heard to laugh in the
dark or whistle, some claim having heard it imitate the howling
of a dog. Locals say that it runs swiftly and jumps over barbed
wire fencing and walls without touching them, according to
concerned neighbors. Some eyewitness accounts follow:

Ivana Molina had gone out to her yard and saw a man dancing,
whistling and slapping his hands. The neighbors heard similar
noises. The next day, she went out and the same man tried to
grab her. She ran into the house and phoned the police. It then
banged on her bathroom window and wrote "mueres" (you'll die)
with its finger. Oscar Gonzalez reported standing in the yard
when he saw a shadow walking along. He could see its red eyes.
He then went out with another fellow to find it and the
"phantom" jumped the neighbor's yard. It was dressed in white.
The following day it whistled at the men again. They went out to
chase it and it vanished. Veronica Bertrando reported that her
husband saw it as it crossed the patio; he said it was dressed
in gray with a hood over its head. When it went by the dog
barked, her husband then went outside and it took off running.
He searched for it but could not find it. Local police offered
the following additional details on the stranger (or
strangers?), 1.8 to 1.9 meters tall, dresses in black, a white
face (possibly a mask) wears a black hat, its movements are
generally silent and possesses extreme agility, it jumps over
fences, walls and climbs up trees with ease. It normally appears
between 2130 to 0300 hours.

HC addendum
Source: Scott Corrales, Institute Of Hispanic Ufology, Christian
Quintero, Planeta UFO. Type: E
Comments: This case bears a strong resemblance to the
visitations or encounters reported in Vegas Coria Spain in 1983-
1984 and in Provincetown Massachusetts 1944-1945.


30.
Location. Johannesburg, South Africa
Date: March 2 2004 Time: 1900
A sort of "inner voice" told the witness to get his camera and
go outside. He waited for about 5 minutes then a bright white
light shone on his eyes and then he saw three disc-shaped craft
surrounding a large cigar-shaped object maneuvering overhead.
The discs kept circling around the cigar. He took three
photographs then he was again illuminated by a bright white
light and suddenly found himself on his bed the next morning. He
suffered from nosebleeds after the incident and had strange
lucid "dreams" of seeing a little "black man" who enters his
bedroom and tells him that they are taking him. He remembers
running and then being shot in the arm by a laser-like light. He
woke up the next morning shivering and with his arm sore.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC Type: D or E?


31.
Location. Near Carthage, Missouri
Date: March 7 2004 Time: afternoon
The two witnesses had gone riding ATV's (all terrain vehicles)
in a place called "The Underground" which is a public and
private storage facility near the town. The facility is miles
and miles of carved out caves and also stores thousands of
dehydrated food containers for the Navy. It is also a fallout
shelter and can hold up to 40,000 to 50,000 people. They had
gone about 8 miles deep into to the caves when they turned into
an area that was marked, "Naval Authoritative Zone." The walls
became more defined as in polished or finished, and this was
striking because this was supposed to be a newly blasted area.
Both witnesses just kept on going, increasing their speed since
the floor was paved now. They then came upon an unusual painted
pattern on the floor, which they thought it was graffiti. The
road then dipped down and took a 90-degree turn to the left.
They were going to fast and knew they were going to hit it but
they didn't. They passed through some kind of holographic
projection of the cave wall. Now they had come upon a whole new
road system, this one large and much older than the one they had
come from. They began to notice an odor, that was musty and damp
that grew stronger as they went deeper into the area. The
lighting had changed as well. It was now 60% darker than the
other area from which they had come. They turned on their
headlights and slowed down also noticing that it was getting
cooler. They made a right turn and started to come up on what
they thought was a rest area about 40 ft away. One of the
witnesses then saw something that at first he thought were a
pair of fountains until they moved. They both stopped
immediately. About 30 ft away they saw two creatures, one was
very tall (at least 7 ft, maybe more) and very powerfully built,
it was reddish in color. The other was smaller (about 6 ft tall)
and was a pale, almost albino color. This one was not as
powerfully built as the other. They resembled large reptiles.
They said nothing the witnesses did get a strong malevolent
feeling, an evil presence of some kind from the taller one. One
of the men screamed and they turned around and started back. One
of the men looked back and saw that the taller entity was
following them. He received an overwhelming feeling that if it
caught them, harm would come to them, they passed through the
wall projection again, and looked back and saw the tall entity
raise its arm and it had a weapon of some sort, it fired and hit
one of the ATV's, which apparently killed the engine causing it
to stop. The rider ran to the other ATV and jumped on it. They
drove away and looked back to see that the tall reptilian had
now stopped at the graffiti area on the cave floor. It was
obvious that the creature would not cross the strange marked
area. It seemed to have been some type of barrier for the
creature. The witnesses now slowed down and were now about 75 ft
away from the creature. The two men and the reptilian stared at
each other for about 15 seconds, and then they left. The
creature remained standing without moving. One of the witnesses
called the police on his cell phone but he was told that the
security at the facility would handle the matter. Indeed
security waited for the men and threatened to arrest them if
they did not leave.

HC addendum
Source: http://forums.about.com Type: E


32.
Location. Wolverhampton, West Midlands, England
Date: March 8 2004 Time: 2130
Steven Nicklin and a friend were walking across Northicote Farm
near an old Tudor farmhouse when both men saw a humanoid grayish
figure with a human-type head standing on a tree, which formed
part of the many trees that bordered the farm, these were tall
pine trees, and the figure stood on the top branches. They
estimated the size of the figure as being about 2.1 meters in
height. It had two legs and two arms connected to membrane-type
wings. Its clawed hands seemed connected to the wings, somehow
resembling a pterosaur. It moved its head and looked directly at
the witnesses, since the moon was full and there was a
streetlight not farm away. It turned its head from the witnesses
and then took one giant leap and glided to the next tree. The
tree bent under the creature's weight as it took the impact. It
then turned its head to look at them once more. Its gaze felt
that "it could look into their very being (soul)". Both men felt
quite scared and both fled the area quickly. The men said that
it was a creature they had never seen before nor wanted to see
again.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Roundup March 16 2004  Type: E
Comments: Another flying humanoid report, this entity somehow
resembled the gargoyle of the Middle Ages.


33.
Location. Near Carlsbad California
Date: March 9 2004 Time: 0320A
The witness was on his paper route and was driving at about 25-
30 mph when he saw a real bright light in the sky about the size
of the moon. He pulled up to the side to catch a better glimpse
of the object. About 1 minute passed when all of the sudden it
disappeared. Then after 10 seconds of dead silence a round
bright object landed right in front of the witness. It was
circular and glowed very brightly. It was probably about 25 ft
in height and about 100 ft in diameter. Stunned the witness
heard a voice as if someone was talking to him gently in his
ear. He looked around and did not see anybody. All of the sudden
the craft didn't glow anymore and on the side of the craft it
said, "future". The voice then said, "nobody else can see this
but you, we are from the future, you are a representative now of
the future for this mass (sic), please lead or there will be
dire consequences." The voice talked very slowly and clearly in
perfect English. He still couldn't see anybody but after the
voice stopped talking he shouted, "who the hell are you"! And
then everything disappeared. After about 10 minutes of
reflecting on what had occurred, the witness drove home.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC Type: F


34.
Location. Jordanow, Poland
Date: March 11 2004 Time: 2330
44-year old Miss Wiktoria Lesniakiewicz was in her bedroom when
she suddenly noticed her cat, which had died several days ago.
She followed the animal. The cat walked out of the bedroom
through the closed door, but feeling very tired Wiktoria went to
sleep. That same night she had a strange "dream" about her cat.
She woke up feeling the cat's hot body on her legs. At the same
time she sensed and heard strange voices and music. Three
separate voices were discussing something, speaking in a strange
language. The music resembled classical music, very similar to
the Mozart symphonies, but it was definitely not a Mozart
composition. Afraid, Wiktoria turned the lamp on. The voices and
the music then slowly faded away. She was unable to sleep the
rest of the night.

HC addendum
Source: Robert Lesniakiewicz, Poland  Type: F?


35.
Location. Sault Sainte Marie, Ontario, Canada
Date: March 12 2004 Time: 0400A
The witness, M N, was driving eastward on Wellington Street on
the southeastern end of Lake Superior and as he came to the
central part of the city (known to locals of the Lake Superior
region as Soo, Canada). He noticed a straight beam of light
hovering in the early morning sky, from the top of the hill that
was on his northern side. His vehicle came to a complete stop at
a cross street and he looked all the way down to the end of the
street (about 7 blocks away) because the street ended at the
base of the hill and has a metal stairwell leading to McDonald
Avenue. Although being 7 blocks away his eyes were able to focus
on a little dark figure that was standing very still. This
caught his curiosity as he slowly drove towards it, and then
started moving from side to side using fluid movements as if it
was hovering in mid-air. It moved as if it was confused, or
afraid and didn't know what to do. As he got closer, the
figure's appearance seemed to have metamorphosed into a
transparent, shadow like entity that very swiftly flew up the
stairs. To his astonishment, the beam of light that he had seen
in the sky a few minutes before and a couple of miles away was
now at the top of the hill, only about 100 ft away. With his
heart racing, he drove as fast as he could eastward along the
base of the hill until he came to the nearest hill street and
drove up McDonald Avenue to see what was happening. In a matter
of seconds, traveling from the bottom to the top of the hill, he
arrived at the top of the steps only to find three circle-shaped
burn markings on the pavement of the street. Approximately 10
seconds later he heard a very weird kind of gunshot sound,
looked up to the sky and saw a bright light shooting up into the
stars. As he watched the spectacle a surreal kind of peaceful
feeling came upon him and he felt as if every hair on his body
was standing on end. The feeling only lasted for what felt like
30 seconds, but when he looked at his watch it was a good 40
minutes later.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Roundup Vol. 9 # 13 Type: C


36.
Location. London, England
Date: March 13 2004 Time: night
The witness (involved in previous encounters) woke up Saturday
night to see a cloaked being standing in the center of his
bedroom. It had the same shape as the short fly-head/mantis
being (but he could not be certain). He heard a "popping" sound
and the being quickly disappeared.

HC addendum
Source: Martin Jasek, UFO BC Type: E


37.
Location. London, England
Date: March 14 2004 Time: late night
On Sunday night the witness (involved in previous encounters)
woke up to see two tall praying mantis type beings standing in
the middle of his bedroom. They looked as if they were engaged
in a conversation, making high-pitched (almost digital) clicking
sounds at each other. The witness was too tired to be afraid so
he just concentrated on making a mental description, cross
checking it with the ones he'd seen before. Both were extremely
thin and tall, well over seven feet high. One was slightly
taller than the other. Their necks were long, flexible and tube-
like and didn't look strong enough to support their triangular
heads. The neck and the head moved in a way that reminded the
witness of the old-stop motion monster films or like a lizard.
Both were wearing long black robes that again looked like liquid
oil. On the side of the face he could clearly see a small round
hole just below their eyes. He felt completely drained and
couldn't move. He then slipped back into unconsciousness.

HC addendum
Source: Martin Jasek, UFO BC Type: B


38.
Location. San Juan de San Ramon, Ajuela Province, Costa Rica
Date: March 18 2004 Time: late night
Late at night Gonzalo Rodriguez heard strange noises and a
ruckus coming from the henhouse on his property---a commotion
that was far from being normal. He decided to send his son to
check with a flashlight to make sure thieves weren't at work.
The youth obeyed his father and flashlight in hand approached
the large henhouse stealthily, becoming terrified upon seeing a
strange black animal, standing some 40cm, tall and resembling a
small dog with a long tail and standing on two legs. He recalls,
among what little he was able to see through the flashlight's
beam, that the animal had a very long tongue. Upon seeing the
light, the creature fled into the vegetation, skillfully leaping
over a wall. An inspection of the henhouse revealed that 20 hens
had been slain. Police authorities of the nearby town of San
Ramon were notified and officer Marcos Hernandez reported to the
scene to corroborate not only Gonzalo Rodriguez's account, but
also the testimony of frightened neighbors. The birds were whole
and the only sign of damage to them were the two small orifices
on their backs, through which it is presumed that the strange
assailant drove its fangs to remove or suck the blood. Several
days before several dead sheep had been found with the same
characteristics; twin puncture marks on their necks or back and
not a single drop of blood.

HC addendum
Source: Scott Corrales, INEXPLICATA, The Journal of Hispanic
Ufology,
Gloria Coluchi  Type: E


39.
Location. Hamilton, New Zealand
Date: March 23 2004 Time: 0200A
Jason McIntosh and two friends were had stopped at the end of a
road to watch a light in the sky when one of the girls pointed
out some orange lights moving in a field. To their left in a
fenced yard they saw an image of two people in white "dancing".
About 20 minutes later the car was filled with green glowing
lights moving around at high speed. They could feel massive
charges of static electricity and one of the girls got out and
wanted to see the aliens. She came back to the car saying that
she had seen strange little men. At the same time the others
felt sensations of a craft flying slowly overhead and felt
downdrafts of air. Then they saw a bright white light above the
house in the field and occasionally smaller lights shooting into
it from the sky. They could also see a group of figures in white
standing in front of a house. One of the girls and Jason walked
up the path to investigate and they stood 15 ft from them and
Jason waved at one and it waved back. Suddenly they had an
overwhelming sense of danger and went back to the car. Soon they
could see gray colored creatures, 4 ft tall leaning in the
passenger window. They then drove to the end of a driveway then
drove back to the front. They could see that from where the
strangers in white were standing what appeared to be large black
charges of electricity were being pushed up towards the white
light in the sky. Then a big black fog came in and left. The
creatures were gone but the little green lights stayed in the
car for 2 or 3 hours afterwards.

HC addendum
Source: I Was abducted.com, UFO Reports  Type: C?


40.
Location. Northern Alabama (exact location not given)
Date: April 2004 Time: 0200A
Early one Sunday morning a woman had been studying for an exam
(paralegal) when she briefly, in almost the blink of an eyes,
she was startled when she thought she saw before her a tall and
slender man-like figure with black wings. No facial features
were visible, but she sensed it was a male. The figure disturbed
her. After this encounter the witness feels that something bad
may happen in California and that this may be the last time she
gets to see her daughter (who lives in California).

HC addendum
Source: Brent Raynes, http://www.mysterious-america.net Type: E



41. Location. Newport Tennessee Date: April 5 2004 Time: 1100A
The witness spotted a bizarre flying creature somewhat
resembling an arrowhead flying backwards, with what looked to a
head or knob on the front. It didn't look mechanical; it was
more like some type of animal. It did not have extended wings
like a bird of any kind, but seemed to have some sort of stubby
wings, which were part of the body, like a flying squirrel or
some type of bat. They protruded out near the end & tapered back
to a point at the rear. The creature appeared to be around 3 ft
from to tail & a little over 2 ft wide at the shoulders. It was
moving very fast in a straight line at an altitude of
approximate 150 ft. The witness did not see a method of
propulsion such as wing movement. It just seemed to be gliding,
but at a high rate of speed. It maintained level flight moving
west where the witness eventually lost sight of it. Other
details were a light brown color along the sides of the wings,
like skin, with a dark body color, possibly dark brown or black.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC Type: E




42.
Location. Victorias City, Philippines
Date: April 7 2004 Time: 2100
A witness spotted a very bright disc-shaped object that descends
low over his location. He heard a low hum and also what
resembled the sound of several "people" all talking at the same
time in an unintelligible jargon. The object emitted blue, red,
violet and orange flashes of light. After 15 minutes the object
left the area.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC Type: E


43.
Location. Justo Daract, San Luis Argentina
Date: April 5-10 2004 Time: night
An 11-year old boy was walking on a darkened street on the
corner of Liniers and Los Andes when he felt someone touch him
on the back, upon turning around he saw something that terrified
him and immediately ran home screaming. Local neighbors and
police officers searched the area but failed to find anything.
According to the information available, the boy saw a strange
inhuman creature that was standing on four legs and that moved
in strange jumps at very high speed. Several other men saw the
strange creature climb the roof of the local railroad station.
There were other reports that police had corner a strange figure
dressed in black but it had literally slipped away from their
grasp and disappeared into the darkness. Others reported seeing
something totally different "a very tall man dressed in black
and cape" who wore some type of mask and gloves equipped with
sharp metallic nails. He was originally seen by several young
girls that described him as tall, dressed in black, masked and
with long silvery metallic nails, that climbed the top of the
Plaza Pringles with great agility, the girls ran from the area
in a panic. Others saw the strange character vault over the
tennis court fence while some other women saw the same or
similar figure climbing some trees at very high speed. To add to
the bizarre situation that same night residents in the Ilusion &
Libertario Ferrari section reported seeing the tall black garbed
stranger frolicking on a local football pitch, it seemed make
huge jumps with surprising agility at times seemingly floating
in mid-air. To add to the mystery that very same night other
residents in the Jardin Ferroviario section reported seeing a
diminutive figure running through the area. Others reported
seeing a simian-type creature about 1.20 meters in height moving
about in great leaps and bounds. Still, another young girl
riding her bicycle home late at night saw a tall black-garbed
figure jumping from roof to roof in the 331 Viviendas section of
the city.

HC addendum
Source: El Dragon Invisible quoting El Diario de la Republica
April 10 2004  Type: E


44.
Location. Maine, exact location not given
Date: April 8 2004 Time: 0600A
In a dream-like state the witness suddenly found himself in a
black void, totally conscious. Then 6 round bright lights
appeared and illuminated the darkness around him, he could see
blinding white light, which did not blind his eyes. He then
heard a voice that told him that, "Time has come my child, and I
am going to take you home soon." That's all it said then the
blackness and the bright light was gone and the witness could
now see the creature that had apparently spoke. He could not
clearly make out what it looked like but he could see it, he
could remember that it was not short and it had bigger eyes,
looking almost human. That's all he could remember after the
creature looked at him, he felt being sucked backwards at
amazing speed, he could see what appeared to be stars whizzing
by and huge planets and then he saw what appeared to be the
Earth, he went head first through the sky, falling, headed
towards his state and then his town and then finally towards his
house and then into his bedroom. Upon arriving at his bedroom he
heard a "boom" inside his head and he woke up, all in an
instant.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC  Type: F
Comments: Sounds like a very intriguing out of body experience.


45.
Location. Ellicott City, Maryland
Date: April 9 2004 Time: 1002A
The witness was driving his 18-wheeler traveling north on US 29
and wanted to stop at a store for something to eat. He took the
US 40 exit east then at the light he went right instead of left,
this took him into a residential area, which is considered bad
for big trucks, so he knew he had to turn around so he took the
first right down the street and went 1 =BD blocks and saw a
"person" walking a dog. The figure had a gray hooded sweatshirt
on pulled over the head and was facing away from the witness.
The truck apparently startled "her" (he guessed it was a female
due to the body shape) and she turned around very quickly and he
saw a face that he had never seen before except in alien report
drawings. The figure was about 5 foot 1 inch to 5 ft to 4 inches
in height; with an oblong-shaped face with a sunken nose, creamy
pale skin, very small mouth, and two very large all black eyes
that stared at the witness. Shocked, he did not think to stop
for a closer look until he was past her =BD a block; very curious
he made a U-turn in the intersection to go back for a better
look. When he turned around the figure with the "dog" was
already gone, which was strange because it only took less than a
minute for him to turn his rig around.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC Type: E
Comments: This report has to be a first, even though there has
been other recorded incidents in which, aliens or humanoids have
been seen in the company of "dogs" or other animals.


46.
Location. Santiago, Chile
Date: April 10 2004 Time: night
44-year old Eduardo Perez, a security guard at a high scale
condominium was at his guard shack when he perceived a strong
luminosity coming from outside. As he went out to investigate he
immediately lost consciousness. He is later found by another one
of the guards, about 600 meters away from his post in a state of
confusion, and incredibly with a three-day growth of beard, the
hands of his quartz watch were turning on the opposite
direction. After explaining what occurred to his superior he
shakes hands with him but this one is suddenly thrown back by a
violent discharge of static electricity from Perez's hand. Later
local police found strange ground traces at the nearby golf
course, which unfortunately were ordered, removed by the local
residents. According to Perez he has had unusual encounters from
an early age, including one time when he was missing for several
hours and remembers seeing two short humanoids.

HC addendum
Source: Dr. Mario Dussuel, Guillermo Aguilera
Ovniaventura, Chile Type: G?
Comments: Shades of the Cabo Valdes encounter of April 1977 also
in Chile. So far there is not information on any possible
hypnotic regression yet.


47.
Location. Justo Daract, San Luis, Argentina
Date: April 21-22 2004 Time: night
Two witnesses watched in horror as tall dark garbed figure
descend from a nearby roof at very high speed. Others reported a
similar figure near the school pool in Barrio Centro. There were
other reports that seemed to describe different entities, some
dark brown and short, and others very tall and dressed in white.
Around the same time other witnesses in the suburb of Ciudad
Jardin in Villa Mercedes reported seeing a tall shadowy dark
individual that seemed to loiter on rooftops late at night.

HC addendum
Source: Planeta UFO, Quoting "El Diario de la Republica"
April 23 2004, San Luis Argentina Type: E


48.
Location. Concepcion del Uruguay, Entre Rios, Argentina
Date: late April 2004 Time: night
Several locals have reported seeing late at night a strange
creature, described as very tall, hairy and heavy set with a
deformed face and bright red eyes lurking around an area in the
northwest section of town. Two of the witnesses received such an
impression that they had to be hospitalized. An older gentleman
riding his bicycle is reported to have almost run into the
creature causing him a great fright. Also several employees a
local frozen goods warehouse reported seeing the strange
"wolfman" type creature lurking outside the warehouse.

HC addendum
Source: Planeta UFO lists, quoting Newspaper sources Type: E


49.
Location. Seguin, Texas
Date: May 12 2004 Time: 2300
The two witnesses, a man and a woman, were walking a dog when
they suddenly spotted a giant disc-shaped craft descending from
the sky. The woman began screaming, saying that there was a loud
ringing in her head and she thought she could hear voices trying
to talk to her. The dog became disturbed and ran off. The man
began to cry as two more discs appeared. He could see that the
objects were charcoal gray in color and ringed with "black"
lights. All three craft had what appeared to be strange writing
or symbols on their hulls. The witness thought these resembled
"ancient writings"

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC  Type: F


50.
Location. Guri Dam, Southeastern Venezuela
Date: May 15 2004 Time: early morning
An unidentified flying object crashed last Saturday in the
vicinity of the Raul Leoni Hydroelectric Station, located in a
remote jungle region. The hydroelectric station is at Guri Dam,
at the north end of the man-made Lago de Guri. The dam is on the
Rio Caroni, 100 km south of the Rio Orinoco at Ciudad Bolivar.
The accident, which occurred during the early hours of last
Saturday, was witnessed by workers at the dam and took place to
the northwest of that location. Soldiers of Venezuela's Guardia
Nacional, who proceeded to cordon off the area, immediately
undertook stringent security measures further north, in Puerto
Ordaz, residents saw low-flying black helicopters cross the
overcast sky, heading south towards the dam. The presence of U.S
personnel was also observed, a common feature in all (South
American) crashes involving UFOs. It must be noted that the
seismology unit at the university in Caracas, reported movement
at the time of the crash, a detail reminiscent of the Roswell,
New Mexico incident of July 1947. Access to the crash site has
been highly complicated due to the torrential rains at the site
during this time of year. No other information so far.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Roundup May 25, quoting Proyecto Orion,
Scott Corrales, Christian Quintero Planeta UFO  Type: H


51.
Location. Martinez, California
Date: May 16 2004 Time: night
Layla Wingate, in her early twenties, was looking out of her
window, her view taking in the southern sky, also giving her a
view toward San Francisco. Over a Shell Oil Company refinery she
watched a rusty red colored creature with bat-like wings flying
in circles over the facility. She watched it for an estimated
five minutes. It glided quite a bit, occasionally flapping its
wings. At the end it flew off toward San Francisco. Layla said
it felt evil to her, and that she hadn't seen this creature
since some 13 years ago with her family in Bristol Tennessee.

HC addendum
Source: Brent Raynes, http://www.mysterious-america.net Type: E


52.
Location. Culloden, West Virginia
Date: May 17 2004 Time: night
The witness was house cleaning when she spotted a black figure
run past the window, she looked outside and at first did not see
anything. She resumed her cleaning but again saw another figure,
not as dark run by the window. 10 minutes later she was in the
kitchen when she was blinded by a bright light for a brief
second, it came in through both the back windows. She then
closed her curtains. The next day her dogs acted strangely and
there was a power outage in the area.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC  Type: E?


53.
Location. Al-Naiisia, Syria
Date: May 22 2004 Time: afternoon
Seven laborers spotted a strange entity in an olive grove. The
creature remained seated for a while before taking running
strides to climb up a tree. The entity was described as red in
color, human in shape, and "peasant-like" in appearance (!).
According to the witnesses the sighting came to an end when the
creature rushed skyward with incredible swiftness leaving a wake
of smoky white bubbles. Authorities mandated an inspection of
the site but apparently nothing abnormal was found.

HC addendum
Source: http://www.infobae.com citing Syrian State Newspaper
"Teshreen" Type: E







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   Jun > Jun 24

                Re: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources - Page

From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:07:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:30:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources - Page


>From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:34:19 -0400
>Subject: Re: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources

>>From: Errol Bruce-Knapp
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 7:55 AM
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Recording Webcasts & Other Sources

<snip>

>>If you want to record from _any_ source to almost any
>>format, check out:

>>http://www.highcriteria.com/main_productfr_tr_overview.htm

>>Version 4.5 Standard Edition is available for $11.95 U.S.

>>Version 4.5 Professional Edition is available for $35.95 U.S.


>Thanks Errol!

>Total Recorder looks great and the standard version beats Replay
>Radio's price by about $19.00 U.S.

>If anyone knows of a similar piece of software that works on the
>Macintosh (OS X) please let me know.

Will as a fellow Mac user (John Velez too) you need to check out
Audio Hijack Pro from:

http://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijackpro/

Works like a charm. I have my G5 running 24/7 with a cron job
that launches it at 9PM EST and it records Coast to Coast daily
and SDI on the weekends. Hasn't failed in 10 months of use.
Gotta love Mac OS X (UNIX).


Trevor Page







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                           Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:52:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:34:12 -0400
Subject: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?


Listers,

As some of you know, UFO Magazine and (amazingly) Coast To Coast
AM's George Noory are asking alleged government microbiologist
Dan Burisch (aka Dan Crain) to submit to a polygraph
examination. While checking for an update on the
Friedman/Shostak debate, I found that C2C has a picture from
someone stating the photo is of the alien Burisch claims to have
been working with:

http://www.ufomag.com/dan.html

Only problem with this photo is that I remember someone from the
now apparently defunct setlab.org exposed it as a hoax done by
an FX team. The photo on C2C is reported to be a photocopy - but
the image that made rounds on the Internet a few years ago were
in color and inverted (facing the opposite direction).

Anyone remember this? I can't find any contact info for Russell
Dowden, who used to run setlab.org

Thanks.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM








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                         Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:37:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:37:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?




From: Bill Hamilton <skycom22.nul-research.org>
To: Skywatch Open <skyopen.nul>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:36:53 -0700
Subject: [SO] C2C tonight


Skywatchers,

I sent the following email to George Noory tonight with a copy
to Linda Howe.....


George,

I cannot believe you would be a party to a fraud such as

-Rod Photo This Xeroxed photo (courtesy Ron Garner) is purported
to be the "J-Rod" alien that microbiologist Dan Burisch has
spoken about. Click here to view larger and read about the
C2C/UFO Mag. Challenge.

Ron has just put one over on you. That phoney photo was received
by my friend, Winston Smith, and Ron Garner took a photocopy of
it. It has no connection to J-Rod.

The UFO Magazine challenge is ludicrous. A photo of Dan and
Marci with three of his handlers!! What a laugh! These were
visitors, one named Rob from th UK, Serge from the Ukraine, and
John Henderson from California.

Why do you swallow this crap without checking on the facts?

I will broadcast this far and wide on the net and your show will
lose any shred of credibility it has left.



Bill Hamilton
AstroScience Research
Theory guides. Experiment decides.









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                              UFOparanormal.com

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 03:21:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:40:21 -0400
Subject: UFOparanormal.com


The latest in a series of new UK web sites is now on-line,
ufoparanormal.com. The first issue is free and can be viewed at:

http://www.ufoparanormal.com

It is expected that subsequent issues will require on-line
payment.


Joe









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                 Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of

From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 05:28:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:29:42 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies Of


>From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:09:06 -0700
>Subject: Re: MUFON's Annual Conference & 'Allies of Humanity'

>My question is: how serious is the "Allies of Humanity"
>thesis being taking in the UFO field? (I presume there's
>been no objective and independent verification of it.)

I have read portions of Allies Of Humanity and in my
opinion it is a good tool for thinking about the long-term
implications of the (alleged) alien presence for the future of
human civilization.

We really don't know what life is like for the residents of
starfaring civilizations that have presumably existed for
thousands or millions of years.

Unless something disastrous happens in the coming decades or
centuries our own civilization seems destined to eventually
become a long-lived starfaring civilization of this sort.

Those of us who accept the extraterrestrial hypothesis and who
care about the implications of the existence of visitors for our
future place within the galactic community (or at least our
local stellar neighborhood) should be concerned about what our
relationships will be with the civilizations that are already
established here, what kinds of commerce will exist, whether we
will become dependent upon them, whether we will join their
'collective' or 'Federation' or whatever. As to the book being
'channeled' or what not, it doesn�t really matter.

Allies Of Humanity is a tool for thinking about these things
and can be regarded as speculative. Independent verification of
its thesis is neither possible nor necessary.


David W. Chace








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                Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:27:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:44:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Kaeser


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:44:17 -0600
>Subject: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

<snip>

>So I ask rhetorically. Is it even important to have confirmation
>from science or religion to enjoy the wonderment of the
>phenomenon and learn from the journey in trying to understand it
>enough to accept it and what it might entail for the personal as
>well as the whole of humanity?

>Wendy Connors
>www.fadeddiscs.com

So what is the goal of this as a study? That will help to define
whether scientific confirmation is important, and will also help
to define who wants to take part in the process.

Whatever one wants to do to further their personal goals and
furtherance of humanity(as long as it doesn't hurt someone else)
is fine, and many are obviously devoting their lives to the
furtherance of their beliefs in UFOs, Abductions, or whatever.
Some, like myself, are only in this as a scientific pursuit.
Remove that as a goal and I'm outta here (and I've almost bailed
a couple of times already).

There _are_ a number of scientists involved in this research,
and they understand perfectly well why this has become such a
challange. The reasons are many, but as long as the field
continues to be the circus that it is today, we are far from
gaining any respect from those outside our tent. Is that respect
important? Are we content to speculate among ourselves and build
on a belief structure, debating issues until we reduce ourselves
to name calling? These are questions that each of us have to
answer for ourselves.

Personally, I'm just curious from a scientific perspective and
how it will impact society isn't a major issue for me, as I have
no real control over that.


Steve








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                                June 24 1947

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:01:18 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:46:15 -0400
Subject: June 24 1947



57 years ago, Kenneth Arnold saw over Mount Rainier 9
unidentified flying objects.

Congratulations to all UFO researchers in this International
Ufology Day.









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                     Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Chace

From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 06:11:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:50:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Chace


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:52:30 -0700
>Subject: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>Only problem with this photo is that I remember someone
>from the now apparently defunct setlab.org exposed it as a
>hoax done by an FX team.

I remember seeing the color photo a few years ago. I don�t
remember if it was "exposed" as a "hoax" or not, but like most
of these alleged alien photos (particularly those where no
supporting details are provided) I think it was generally
assumed to be a fake. Certainly, I was given no reason to
believe it was real when I saw it. Does Dan Burisch really claim
that this is a photo of his J-Rod or at least the same species?

I find it strange that the black and white 'drawing' I�ve
previously seen of the J-Rod (was it at Bill Hamilton�s
website?) looks more like a typical gray alien, as described by
many abductees and illustrated countless times elsewhere,
whereas this photo looks more like a degenerated future human,
malformed hybrid, or some such. In any case the physical
features of its head and face do not look quite like the typical
gray aliens we are familiar with.


David W. Chace








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               Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:32:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:54:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Lehmberg


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:44:17 -0600
>Subject: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

>I quote from Dan Brown's book, "Angels & Demons," Atria Books,
>NY, 2000. Page 380:


>"The ancient war between science and religion is over. You
>(Science) have won. But you have not won fairly. You have not
>won by providing answers. You have won by so radically
>reorienting our society that the truths we once saw a signposts
>now seem inapplicable. Religion cannot keep up. Scientific
>growth is exponential. It feeds on itself like a virus. Every
>new breakthrough opens doors for new breakthroughs. Mankind took
>thousands of years to progress from the wheel to the car. Yet
>only decades from the car into space. Now we measure scientific
>progress in weeks. We are spinning out of control. The rift
>between us grows deeper and deeper, and as religion is left
>behind, people find themselves in a spiritual void. We cry out
>for meaning. And believe me, we do cry out. We see UFOs, engage
>in channeling, spirit contact, out -of-body experiences,
>mindquests - all these eccentric ideas have a scientific veneer,
>but they are unashamedly irrational. They are the desperate cry
>of the modern soul, lonely and tormented, crippled by its own
>enlightenment and its inability to accept meaning in anything
>removed from technology."


>Well, I have read the analysis of the UFO phenomenon. I have
>also heard the actual voices of hundreds of people who have seen
>and had contact with UFOs. They cannot all be deluded, but the
>debunkers certainly are, because their minds are small and
>hollow.

>After a lifetime of learning and keeping an open mind, I believe
>that the UFO phenomena being reported now, as in the past, is as
>real as I know myself to exist. I do not worship the phenomena,
>but respect its reality. It has provided me with wonder, joy,
>encouragement, contemplation, reflection and knowledge removed
>from itself. From the phenomena I have been lead to explore many
>of the sciences and religions. It is a journey that has allowed
>me a personal search for self and meaning.

>Science has defaulted on the question and cowardly neglected its
>own principles in the investigation of the phenomena. It has
>falsely proclaimed it's own superiority in the answer to the
>question. Science lied and continues to do so. Religion has
>ignored the phenomena and has given no guidance as to the wonder
>of it. Thus, it too defaults on the needs of mankind's journey
>to understand.

>So I ask rhetorically. Is it even important to have confirmation
>from science or religion to enjoy the wonderment of the
>phenomenon and learn from the journey in trying to understand it
>enough to accept it and what it might entail for the personal as
>well as the whole of humanity?


Wow! This kicked my ass.

Joni Mitchell wrote a song about it indicating perfectly (...for
me anyway, the point actually...) how the whole of conjectured
reality and an appreciation of same always comes "Down To You".

It's the _individual_ who is moved (by self-motivation) to
singular action in the manufacture of reality... who provides
energy to spin the grinding wheel, fills out the, collectively,
more powerful group, or extends the power and reach of
institution, agency, or government. Stalin, Hitler, and the
right reverend Moon go _nowhere_ but for the individuals
immediately around them who buy in for reasons entirely
individual and their own... persons who _allow_ themselves to be
convinced as a matter of conscious choice. Then there are the
persons who individually buy-in (as a matter of choice, and for
whatever reason) to that secondary ring... and so on.

Brown's right! Science, Religion, (and Government!) _have_
abdicated in their futile and self-serving struggle to maintain
a disintegrating, inefficient, dangerous, and unintelligent
status quo.

It _is_ enough that individually, personally, and on my own
recognizance _I_ (individually!) understand and accept a
ufologial reality and handily dismiss my sneering detractor as
just _not_ knowing what the flock he's talking about.

ETH UFOs are the reality, the skeptibunky the clueless
reactionary, and the enlightened person expecting "mainstream"
recognition for their achievments is the person afflicted with
the most cultural naivet=E9. The mainstream _has_ abdicated and
abrogated its responsibility to actually _be_ the mainstream.
The sooner we accept this the sooner we can begin getting over
it.

... And we _would_ get over it!


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                     Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:37:39 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:56:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Boone


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:52:30 -0700
>Subject: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>Listers,

>As some of you know, UFO Magazine and (amazingly) Coast To Coast
>AM's George Noory are asking alleged government microbiologist
>Dan Burisch (aka Dan Crain) to submit to a polygraph
>examination. While checking for an update on the
>Friedman/Shostak debate, I found that C2C has a picture from
>someone stating the photo is of the alien Burisch claims to have
>been working with:

>http://www.ufomag.com/dan.html

>Only problem with this photo is that I remember someone from the
>now apparently defunct setlab.org exposed it as a hoax done by
>an FX team. The photo on C2C is reported to be a photocopy - but
>the image that made rounds on the Internet a few years ago were
>in color and inverted (facing the opposite direction).

>Anyone remember this? I can't find any contact info for Russell
>Dowden, who used to run setlab.org

>Thanks.

>Regards,

>Royce J. Myers III
>UFOWATCHDOG.COM

Heya Royce!

Y'know, you're like a breath of fresh air now and then.

http://www.parascope.com/nb/1096/pent.htm

http://www.ufo.se/ufofiles/english/issue_3/penth.htm

http://www.iufomrc.org/movie.htm

I took one look at that pic on UFO Mag's site and for the life
of me couldn't fathom how anyone in this area of research
wouldn't recognize that pic.

You go to any UFO convention and you can pick up any number of
pics and toys.

I don't blame Noory much. He's a swell guy and very sincere, he
just isn't in this one area enough. He'll catch on one day. As
for you guys at UFO Mag... :)


Best,

Greg







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                              Phoenix Lights ll

From: William H Bolt <AB5SY.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:58:04 -0400
Subject: Phoenix Lights ll


Received the following reply from the guy that has a video of
still more Phoenix Lights posted on his web site.


>Wm H <ab5sy.nul> wrote:

>Sorry to shoot down you baloons but they failed to pass
>investigation.

>I've created the same affect using Baloons, string, colored
>Chiness lanterns with candles inside, and a few buddies as
>ground crew.

>I've notice more experianced Ufologist on other related sites
>have not bothered to take this serious.

>Nice try... but this won't fly.


Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:32:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rob Kritkausky
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights ll
To: Wm H

OK, let me get this right. I strug-up a line of Chinese lanterns
and then filmed them. I then posted this interesting video to my
site with the proposition that these are probably military
flares, not UFOs. I then proceeded to drive around town to
recruit witnesses by the hundreds, to say they saw these lights.
I'm smiling now, because I only wish I had that type of free
time on my hands.

I appreciate your skepticism, as I have analyzed this with the
scientific approach in which I was taught. In fact, I will tell
you that from the footage I just received from a Local TV
Reporter, as well as an account from a helicopter pilot who
viewed it with night vision binoculars, that this will be
explained as military flares......perhaps a new generation with
an extended ability to stay aloft. (15-20 minutes)

Note: I will attach a still frame from the TV3 cameraman. In
addition, I will be willing to send you 50 or so reports by
witnesses as much as 60 miles apart.

I am not familiar with the practices of "serious Ufologists",
however, if they operate in a similar manner as you have
approached this case, I fear this phenomenon will never garner
the serious attention it may deserve. If you require any
additional proof of what I say above, let me know and I will
gladly provide it to you. Everyone makes mistakes, but not
everyone has the intellectual fortitude to acknowledge them and
then grow from their lessons. I hope you will.

Regards,

Rob Kritkausky

<http://www.worldblend.net/>www.worldblend.net










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                    Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 06:28:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:00:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Hamilton


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:52:30 -0700
>Subject: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>As some of you know, UFO Magazine and (amazingly) Coast To Coast
>AM's George Noory are asking alleged government microbiologist
>Dan Burisch (aka Dan Crain) to submit to a polygraph
>examination. While checking for an update on the
>Friedman/Shostak debate, I found that C2C has a picture from
>someone stating the photo is of the alien Burisch claims to have
>been working with:

>http://www.ufomag.com/dan.html

>Only problem with this photo is that I remember someone from the
>now apparently defunct setlab.org exposed it as a hoax done by
>an FX team. The photo on C2C is reported to be a photocopy - but
>the image that made rounds on the Internet a few years ago were
>in color and inverted (facing the opposite direction).

>Anyone remember this? I can't find any contact info for Russell
>Dowden, who used to run setlab.org


That photo was sent to Winston, a friend, who in turn sent it to
me and I printed it off before lunch with Ron Garner and
Winston. Ron insisted on having a copy so I gave it to him
saying we have not examined this yet. He turns around and gives
it to Bill Birnes as a photo of a J-Rod. This was Garner
perpetrating a fraud on Bill Birnes and George Noory and has
nothing whatsoever to do with the Burisch case.

Bill H








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                Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:03:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:03:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Boone


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:44:17 -0600
>Subject: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

<snip>

>So I ask rhetorically. Is it even important to have confirmation
>from science or religion to enjoy the wonderment of the
>phenomenon and learn from the journey in trying to understand it
>enough to accept it and what it might entail for the
>personal as well as the whole of humanity?


Wendy, it's always a joy and priviledge to chat with you. We
need more Wendy Connors around.

As for religion and science, if one doesn't make the error of
separating the two to a conflict things work out alright.

Problem is that with all groups there's that small percentage
who'll use force and invalidation to control the rest. There are
no shortage of gangsters in the human collective. Using the old
tools of character assassination and threats of violence as well
as acts of violence to embolden their warped intellects.

History shows us that when even the simplest of scientific
viewpoints were raised, they were met with violent actions.

A hundred years ago people were considered insane to suggest
that manned flight was possible. Even the NY Times ran an
editorial bemusing the concept. Few months later men flew.

Go back farther and such crazy ideas that the Earth was round,
and not the center of the Universe got fellows burned at the
stake.

It's all about 'what the majority believes'.

A quick look at the definitions of science and religion from
Merriam Webster's Dictionary:

Religion: definition #4

4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor
and faith

Science: definition #3
3 a : knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths
or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and
tested through scientific method b : such knowledge or such a
system of knowledge concerned with the physical world and its
phenomena : NATURAL SCIENCE

As you can see the two don't look like they mix, but do they?
one can 'know' something and communicate that knowledge to
others. As wild as that communication may be. Yet others are
able to 'choose' to believe it on faith or examine the evidence
to proof.

Humans originate any number of things that perplex scientists
and some of these originations turn out to be solid steps and
proof of testable phenomena. Some don't. Maybe that's what
separates us from lower forms of life, we can make a darn good
guestimate.

My question next would be, perhaps what 'science' so far tells
us what we are is very limited to 'natural science'. Perhaps our
scientific equipment and technologies are unable to perceive
further than what we allow. Perhaps what we really are has yet
to be discovered or has but not widely known.

You have to admit, in the world we live in, there's no other
critter quite like us humans.

Or maybe being 'human' is just a disguise?


Best,

Greg
Evolbaby.nul








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                Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Adams

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:52:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:55:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Adams


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:27:14 -0400
>Subject: Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

>>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:44:17 -0600
>>Subject: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor
><snip>

>>So I ask rhetorically. Is it even important to have confirmation
>>from science or religion to enjoy the wonderment of the
>>phenomenon and learn from the journey in trying to understand it
>>enough to accept it and what it might entail for the personal as
>>well as the whole of humanity?

>So what is the goal of this as a study? That will help to define
>whether scientific confirmation is important, and will also help
>to define who wants to take part in the process.

>Whatever one wants to do to further their personal goals and
>furtherance of humanity(as long as it doesn't hurt someone else)
>is fine, and many are obviously devoting their lives to the
>furtherance of their beliefs in UFOs, Abductions, or whatever.
>Some, like myself, are only in this as a scientific pursuit.
>Remove that as a goal and I'm outta here (and I've almost bailed
>a couple of times already).

>There _are_ a number of scientists involved in this research,
>and they understand perfectly well why this has become such a
>challange. The reasons are many, but as long as the field
>continues to be the circus that it is today, we are far from
>gaining any respect from those outside our tent. Is that respect
>important? Are we content to speculate among ourselves and build
>on a belief structure, debating issues until we reduce ourselves
>to name calling? These are questions that each of us have to
>answer for ourselves.

>Personally, I'm just curious from a scientific perspective and
>how it will impact society isn't a major issue for me, as I have
>no real control over that.


Steve,

Name us a field of interest that isn't already a circus outside
their tent?

I'd like to believe that we're just more open minded to
impossibilities.

Brian









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               Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:33:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:59:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Connors


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:27:14 -0400
>Subject: Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

>>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:44:17 -0600
>>Subject: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

Hi Steve,

><snip>

>>So I ask rhetorically. Is it even important to have confirmation
>>from science or religion to enjoy the wonderment of the
>>phenomenon and learn from the journey in trying to understand it
>>enough to accept it and what it might entail for the personal as
>>well as the whole of humanity?

>So what is the goal of this as a study? That will help to define
>whether scientific confirmation is important, and will also help
>to define who wants to take part in the process.

I put forth no "goal" as a study. I put forth a rhetorical
question born from a personal thought.

>Whatever one wants to do to further their personal goals and
>furtherance of humanity(as long as it doesn't hurt someone else)
>is fine, and many are obviously devoting their lives to the
>furtherance of their beliefs in UFOs, Abductions, or whatever.
>Some, like myself, are only in this as a scientific pursuit.
>Remove that as a goal and I'm outta here (and I've almost bailed
>a couple of times already).

I proposed no contest between science and the spiritual. They
exist because one cannot exist without the other. One step
before the Big bang came the original thought. That is the
miracle and unknowable. At the moment of the Big Bang came the
enlightenment to search, both spiritually and scientifically for
the Galelian quest of the most important questions...who am I?
Where did I come from and why am I here? Scientifically and
spiritually impossible to answer, but the quest that brings
forth our own humanity.

>There _are_ a number of scientists involved in this research,
>and they understand perfectly well why this has become such a
>challange. The reasons are many, but as long as the field
>continues to be the circus that it is today, we are far from
>gaining any respect from those outside our tent. Is that respect
>important? Are we content to speculate among ourselves and build
>on a belief structure, debating issues until we reduce ourselves
>to name calling? These are questions that each of us have to
>answer for ourselves.

The "circus" isn't important, nor is the need for "respect." The
quest for knowledge is the fulcrum.

>Personally, I'm just curious from a scientific perspective and
>how it will impact society isn't a major issue for me, as I have
>no real control over that.

>Steve

But you do have "control over that" because you search along
with a great mulitude of others. It is important to you. Deep
down inside you where no words can exist, you know the phenomena
has meaning and is therefore important. Isn't that really where
your quest to understand comes forth and keeps you searching?

I know mine does. UFOs have meaning and I am no closer to the
answer than you are. But, the phenomena resonates within my own
soul and may be there only to ensure I maintain the quest to
wonder and keeps my search balanced upon that fulcrum. Thus,
science isn't the total answer and neither is the religious.
Perhaps they are necessary in tandem to solve the equation.


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com








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                           J-Rod And The Challenge

From: Don Ecker <decker0726.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:19:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:13:01 -0400
Subject: J-Rod And The Challenge



Greetings all on UFO UpDates

I just finished reading several notes on UpDates concerning the
highly suspicious case of Dan Burisch and his claims. If you
read what we have on our Challenge page concerning this, I think
you will see what we are trying to do. We have challenged Dan
Burisch to take a polygraph, with me asking him a set of
questions. Unlike Linda M. Howe, who claims she does NOT need to
check Burisch's bonifides, we will check. If he has a Ph.D.,
then there is proof somewhere. If he is a microbiologist, there
is proof, etc. etc. etc.

Instead of attacking UFO Magazine, take a look at the people who
would rather _believe_ than _investigate_, then ask who is
attempting to find out what is what.


The Challenge:

We've heard the Dan Burisch story about his work at S4 with
J-Rod the alien and the Committee of the Majority.

We've heard the dire predictions of the future: the collapse of
the human genome, the J-Rods who've come back to the future to
correct the mistakes that were made in the human genome, and to
protect planet Earth from the catastrophic effects that may
befall us when we encounter the end of the Mayan Calendar.

Now it's time for Dan Burisch to step up and take the Coast to
Coast and UFO Magazine challenge: a polygraph test administered
by an expert in truth analysis and Don Ecker, former police
detective and interrogator and Director of Research at UFO
Magazine.

We will pay for the test, announce the results on Coast to Coast
and publish them in UFO Magazine.

Our position is simply this: for predictions that are so dire,
so dark, so pessimistic with respect to the future of humanity,
our readers and listeners want the truth. We can handle the
truth. Dan, step up to the plate and take the test.




https://home.comcast.net/%7edecker0726/ Past Sins - The Novel
http://www.darkmattersradio.com/ Dark Matters - The Radio Show
http://ufomag.com - UFO Magazine - It Sets the Standard for UFO Reporting








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                          Secrecy News -- 06/24/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:08:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:28:33 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 06/24/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 59
June 24, 2004


**      DOD DOCTRINE ON SUPPORT TO FOREIGN INTERNAL DEFENSE
**      LAWSUITS CHALLENGE CLASSIFICATION OF PUBLIC INFO
**      DCI TENET REPLIES TO THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE
**      SUPREME COURT RULING IN VP ENERGY TASK FORCE CASE
**      DOD INTERROGATION DOCUMENTS REVEAL POLITICAL CLASSIFICATION
**      TOO MANY SECRETS, SAYS THE SECRECY CZAR


DOD DOCTRINE ON SUPPORT TO FOREIGN INTERNAL DEFENSE

U.S. military doctrine on helping foreign countries to achieve
and sustain internal security is the timely subject of a
recently revised Defense Department publication.

The document "discusses how joint operations, involving the
application of all instruments of national power, support host
nation efforts to combat subversion, lawlessness, and
insurgency."

Generic in nature, it does not explicitly reference Iraq, though
U.S. operations in the unstable security environment there
obviously lend the whole discussion some urgency.

See Joint Publication 3-07.1, "Joint Tactics, Techniques, and
Procedures for Foreign Internal Defense (FID)," revised 30 April
2004 (167 pages, 750 KB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/jp3_07_1.pdf


LAWSUITS CHALLENGE CLASSIFICATION OF PUBLIC INFO

The government's move to retroactively classify information that
was provided to Congress regarding the case of FBI whistleblower
Sibel Edmonds was challenged yesterday in two separate lawsuits.

Ms. Edmonds has alleged corruption and malfeasance in the
translation unit of the FBI where she worked before she was
terminated. The FBI has effectively blocked Ms. Edmonds' pursuit
of her complaint by invoking the "state secrets" privilege
(Secrecy News, 05/18/04).

Most recently, letters from Senators Charles Grassley and
Patrick Leahy regarding the case were removed from the Senate
website after the FBI asserted that they reflected information
discussed in a briefing to Congress that is now deemed
classified.

Yet those letters, having been posted on the web, are
irreversibly in the public domain. Therefore, classifying them
appears to violate national policy, which dictates that
information may not be classified unless it is "under the
control of the United States Government."

Ms. Edmond"s attorney, Mark S. Zaid, asked a federal court to
find that the information about the case that was provided to
Congress in an unclassified setting is still unclassified and
not subject to the state secrets privilege.

In his motion, Mr. Zaid identified several non-governmental web
sites where the now-"classified" congressional letters can still
be found.

The government's attempts to classify the materials are "not
only improper and illegal, but reflective of a clear abuse of
the [classification] system," Mr. Zaid wrote.

See his June 23 "Motion for Declaratory Relief" here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/edmonds062304.pdf

Also yesterday, the Project on Government Oversight filed its
own lawsuit arguing that suppression of this material was both a
violation of classification policy and an illegal prior
restraint that stifled public discussion of defects in the FBI
translation unit.

"By reclassifying the information for an improper purpose," the
POGO lawsuit states, "defendants have abused the classification
process." See:

http://www.citizen.org/documents/ACF681C.pdf


DCI TENET REPLIES TO HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE

In a letter to House Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Porter
Goss, outgoing Director of Central Intelligence George J. Tenet
angrily rebutted the unusually harsh attacks on the CIA that
were included in the Committee's report on the 2005 intelligence
authorization act (Secrecy News, 06/22/04).

Calling the criticism "absurd" and "ill-informed," Tenet added
that "I am deeply disappointed at the way the report has chosen
to question the leadership and capabilities of the Clandestine
Service."

A copy of the June 23 letter from DCI Tenet is available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2004/06/dci062304.html


SUPREME COURT RULING IN VP ENERGY TASK FORCE CASE

The U.S. Supreme Court today said the Bush Administration was
not required to release documents regarding the Vice President's
controversial Energy Task Force, and remanded the case to a
lower court for further consideration. See a copy of the new
ruling here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/cheney062404.pdf


DOD INTERROGATION DOCUMENTS REVEAL POLITICAL CLASSIFICATION

The Department of Defense yesterday released a selection of
documents concerning its prisoner interrogation policies that
incidentally reveal significant lapses in classification policy.

A copy of the DoD news release, with links to all of the newly
released documents, may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/06/dod062204.html

Aside from the substance of the prisoner interrogation matter,
the documents provide a striking illustration of how the
classification system may be harnessed for non-national security
purposes.

The use or abuse of classification to regulate disclosure of
information to Congress and the public has been a recurring
motif in the prisoner interrogation controversy. The newly
released documents include passages that represent notable
examples of this pervasive problem.

The following sentences from an April 2003 working group report
(document 8, at page 57), for instance, were classified at the
"secret" level (meaning that their disclosure could cause
"serious damage to national security"):

"Consideration must be given to the public's reaction to methods
of interrogation that may affect the military commission
process. The more coercive the method, the greater the
likelihood that the method will be met with significant domestic
and international resistance."

This kind of political calculation may be exempt from the
Freedom of Information Act under some circumstances, but it is
not national security information that justifies classification.


TOO MANY SECRETS, SAYS THE SECRECY CZAR

Writing in Slate, Jack Shafer reflects on a recent speech by
William Leonard of the Information Security Oversight Office in
which he warned of excessive and erroneous classification
(Secrecy News, June 17).

Classification abuse is a profound structural challenge to the
ideals of American government, yet it has largely escaped
serious attention from policymakers and from the mainstream
media.

But those, like Leonard, who are most familiar with
classification policy are also most troubled by its abuse.

Why didn't the Leonard speech garner more attention?

"Maybe he should have leaked it to the press instead of posting
it on the web," Shafer proposed.

See "Too Many Secrets, Says the Secrecy Czar" by Jack Shafer,
Slate, June 23:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102855/


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

Secrecy News has an RSS feed at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691







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                     Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:52:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:31:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Shell


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:37:39 EDT
>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:52:30 -0700
>>Subject: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>>http://www.ufomag.com/dan.html

>>Anyone remember this? I can't find any contact info for Russell
>>Dowden, who used to run setlab.org

>Y'know, you're like a breath of fresh air now and then.

>http://www.parascope.com/nb/1096/pent.htm
>http://www.ufo.se/ufofiles/english/issue_3/penth.htm
>http://www.iufomrc.org/movie.htm

>I took one look at that pic on UFO Mag's site and for the life
>of me couldn't fathom how anyone in this area of research
>wouldn't recognize that pic.

Not the same critter. Look at the ear.








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                    Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:32:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:41:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Gehrman


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:52:30 -0700
>Subject: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>As some of you know, UFO Magazine and (amazingly) Coast To Coast
>AM's George Noory are asking alleged government microbiologist
>Dan Burisch (aka Dan Crain) to submit to a polygraph
>examination. While checking for an update on the
>Friedman/Shostak debate, I found that C2C has a picture from
>someone stating the photo is of the alien Burisch claims to have
>been working with:

>http://www.ufomag.com/dan.html

>Only problem with this photo is that I remember someone from the
>now apparently defunct setlab.org exposed it as a hoax done by
>an FX team. The photo on C2C is reported to be a photocopy - but
>the image that made rounds on the Internet a few years ago were
>in color and inverted (facing the opposite direction).

Royce, List, EBK,

I don't believe Burisch's disinformation so I certainly agree
that a polygraph is appropriate, but this particular image is
new to me. It looks remarkably like the creature in Ray
Santilli's footage.

I'd like more information if any is available.


Ed








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                   Re: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:06:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:45:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - McCoy


>From: Don Ecker <decker0726.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:19:02 -0700
>Subject: J-Rod And The Challenge

Hello Don

<snip>

>Instead of attacking UFO Magazine, take a look at the people who
>would rather _believe_ than _investigate_, then ask who is
>attempting to find out what is what.

>The Challenge:

>We've heard the Dan Burisch story about his work at S4 with
>J-Rod the alien and the Committee of the Majority.

>We've heard the dire predictions of the future: the collapse of
>the human genome, the J-Rods who've come back to the future to
>correct the mistakes that were made in the human genome, and to
>protect planet Earth from the catastrophic effects that may
>befall us when we encounter the end of the Mayan Calendar.

>Now it's time for Dan Burisch to step up and take the Coast to
>Coast and UFO Magazine challenge: a polygraph test administered
>by an expert in truth analysis and Don Ecker, former police
>detective and interrogator and Director of Research at UFO
>Magazine.

>We will pay for the test, announce the results on Coast to Coast
>and publish them in UFO Magazine.

>Our position is simply this: for predictions that are so dire,
>so dark, so pessimistic with respect to the future of humanity,
>our readers and listeners want the truth. We can handle the
>truth. Dan, step up to the plate and take the test.

<snip>

Ok, Mr. Burisch, you heard the challenge, stand and deliver.
Quite frankly, I predict what will happen on that day, at the
end of the Mayan Calender:

1. The sun will rise in the east and set in the west.

2. There will be a high tide and low tide in Coos Bay, on the
    Oregon coast-someone will catch a nice Salmon.

3. Politicans will talk about taxes,war and the human condition.

4. Someone will try to perpitrate a UFO hoax.Using this same
  "J-Rod" picture, this time calling it a Dil-Rod....


GT McCoy

Pyshic Seer and Proctologicator








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                        Mary Rodwell To Lecture In UK

From: Chris Evers <celticmagic.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 23:23:59 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:54:28 -0400
Subject: Mary Rodwell To Lecture In UK


Hi EBK

List members may find this of interest.....

-----

Source: http://oxfordtalks.homestead.com/signsofthetimes.html

Signs Of The Times Conference

August 1st 2004

Should we be listening more attentively to people who report
their interactions with beings from other worlds? Are they the
shamans of modern western culture bringing us profound messages,
which thus far we have so slavishly ignored?

And these other worlds... where are they, what are they, who are
they and how else do they communicate with us? Is there an
underlying and subtle influence permeating life and our planet?
Does this influence, if it exists, have a benign, malign or
ambivalent attitude? Are there competing forces? What other
evidence exists besides the testimony of today�s experiencers?
And are these contacts another mode of inter-world
communication? What roles do both ancient and modern art and
symbolism perform in these compelling times of realisation?

You've heard the petulant prima dogmatism of the fearful and
immature now it is your chance to hear for yourself the
attestations of those who actually live with it.

Three outstanding unrestrained and open-minded international
speakers on one day and at a price that everyone can afford.
This is an opportunity that everyone will learn something from
and one you will remember always. I urge you not to miss it.

Speakers:

Mary Rodwell: Principal of the Australian Close Encounter
Resource Network and author of 'Awakening - How Extraterrestrial
Contact Can Transform Your Life.'

Ann Andrews: Experiencer, co-author of the book 'Abducted' and
the forthcoming book, 'Star Child, My Son'.

Neil Hague: Artist, illustrator, college lecturer and author of
'Dreamtime' and 'Through ancient Eyes'. Neil illustrates David
Icke's books.

Full details are on the website at:

http://oxfordtalks.homestead.com/signsofthetimes.html

-----

Chris Evers








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                   Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 06:00:12 -0400
Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Goldstein


>From: Don Ecker <decker0726.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:19:02 -0700
>Subject: J-Rod And The Challenge

<snip>

>Instead of attacking UFO Magazine, take a look at the people who
>would rather _believe_ than _investigate_, then ask who is
>attempting to find out what is what.


Hi Don,

I hope you are doing well these days. You and I are both trained
detective investigators. Why don't you run background checks on
Burish? If you don't have the tools yourself I'm sure that my
alma mater of West Coast Detectives in N. Hollywood can do it at
a low cost. For those who wish to expose Burish it would be good
to find out his past, especially if he ever worked for the
military or any government agency. His background may be so
dubious that it would preclude the polygraph. I'm not going to
comment on why science is not more forthcoming but I think the
high proportion of poseurs in this field do not make it
legitimate for many scientists to pursue.

Efforts in the past of McDonald, Kehoe, etc were worthy but did
not go very far. If the government knows a lot more about Ufos
it has not shown any willingness to disclose it. That may be a
permanent situation due to all the years gone by and the
numerous attempts of people in the Ufo field to get government
validation.

I wish this field and more UFO Updates subscribers would learn
to objectively evaluate information, have standards of
investigation, and know how to separate fact from fiction. Learn
not to form any opinion until all the evidence is examined,
investigated, and evaluated to separate truth from fiction.
Unfortunately this field has never had the resources to
professionaly investigate UFOs.

Listerions, I wish more people in the field could learn and
adhere to such standards. Too many people are fueled by wishful
thinking, emotions, and no idea how to determine what is truth
and what is fantasy. As I have in the past, I would suggest that
Listerions learn how a detective would look at UFO cases with
the same standards I have described. They are the basics of the
legal profession and of any professional investigators.

You don't have to go to a police or detective academy nor go to
law school. There are books available and there may be good
information on the web. If you know a lawyer or investigator,
that person can meet with you and you can take notes on the
basic techniques and the standards of evidence. I regret that as
soon as people learned of the Mexican FLIR and radar images
there were speculative "truths" as to what they wanted them to
be before any objective and professional investigation was
completed. I don't know the standards of the Mexican military in
investigations.

Don, I am not happy saying that UFO Magazine is far afield from
the above. The same applies to MUFON and its journal. All the
above is why I am no longer active in the UFO field. It is going
nowhere until it cleans out its problems. In the field and on
this list there are a small number of people who are "serious"
investigators who valiantly try but there is a serious lack of
the standards I have outlined.

Such standards are well beyond MUFON's amateur UFO investigator
training and should be learned and adhered to by everyone who
wants to seriously learn the truth about what UFOs may or not
be. That it is a start, given the lack of money for real
investigations into what are considered the strongest cases.


Josh Goldstein







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                     Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:18:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 06:03:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Myers


>From: Bill Hamilton <skycom22.nul-research.org>
>To: Skywatch Open <skyopen.nul>
>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:36:53 -0700
>Subject: [SO] C2C tonight

>Skywatchers,

>I sent the following email to George Noory tonight with a copy
>to Linda Howe.....

>George,

>I cannot believe you would be a party to a fraud such as

>-Rod Photo This Xeroxed photo (courtesy Ron Garner) is purported
>to be the "J-Rod" alien that microbiologist Dan Burisch has
>spoken about. Click here to view larger and read about the
>C2C/UFO Mag. Challenge.

>Ron has just put one over on you. That phoney photo was received
>by my friend, Winston Smith, and Ron Garner took a photocopy of
>it. It has no connection to J-Rod.

>The UFO Magazine challenge is ludicrous. A photo of Dan and
>Marci with three of his handlers!! What a laugh! These were
>visitors, one named Rob from th UK, Serge from the Ukraine, and
>John Henderson from California.

>Why do you swallow this crap without checking on the facts?

>I will broadcast this far and wide on the net and your show will
>lose any shred of credibility it has left.


Is this the same Ron Garner from California that was one of the
insiders of the Reed UFO Fraud that later contacted me and told
me about all the crazy antics going on with that case while he
was down in Mexico? The same Ron Garner that produced a video
tape of 'Dr. Reed' and his presentation in San Diego?

Also, I e-mailed Noory to let him know how bunk the photo was.
No response, of course. I was actually surprised that Bill
Birnes didn't know about this infamous photo. Did they even try
to confirm that Burisch was associated with the photo in any
way?

As for Burisch, I'm no fan of the polygraph and feel it won't
prove anything, but I think Burisch needs to come forward and
submit to an in-depth, no holds barred background investigation
to settle who he is.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM








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                               How To See UFOs

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:40:12 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 06:08:13 -0400
Subject: How To See UFOs


Hi List Members,

I have just added a new article to my web site, How To See
UFOs (and photograph them).

http://theozfactor.cjb.net/seeufos.htm

This is a detailed commentary on what to do to see UFO's based
on my own success since 1996. I have included details on how to
setup your camera to get the best images if you get lucky.

I am sure you will find this information interesting. If you
follow the instructions, you too should see UFO's next time they
are over your location.


Regards,

Barry Taylor








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                     Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:28:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 06:10:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Myers


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:52:29 -0500
>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:37:39 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:52:30 -0700
>>>Subject: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>>>http://www.ufomag.com/dan.html

>>>Anyone remember this? I can't find any contact info for Russell
>>>Dowden, who used to run setlab.org

>>Y'know, you're like a breath of fresh air now and then.

>>http://www.parascope.com/nb/1096/pent.htm
>>http://www.ufo.se/ufofiles/english/issue_3/penth.htm
>>http://www.iufomrc.org/movie.htm

>>I took one look at that pic on UFO Mag's site and for the life
>>of me couldn't fathom how anyone in this area of research
>>wouldn't recognize that pic.

>Not the same critter. Look at the ear.

All questions answered:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/jrod.html









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                Re: ngels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:59:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 06:14:01 -0400
Subject: Re: ngels & Demons - The UFO Factor - Kaeser


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:33:19 -0600
>Subject: Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:27:14 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

>>>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>>>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:44:17 -0600
>>>Subject: Angels & Demons - The UFO Factor

>><snip>

>>>So I ask rhetorically. Is it even important to have confirmation
>>>from science or religion to enjoy the wonderment of the
>>>phenomenon and learn from the journey in trying to understand it
>>>enough to accept it and what it might entail for the personal as
>>>well as the whole of humanity?

>>So what is the goal of this as a study? That will help to define
>>whether scientific confirmation is important, and will also help
>>to define who wants to take part in the process.

>I put forth no "goal" as a study. I put forth a rhetorical
>question born from a personal thought.

All "study" has purpose and goals. Otherwise, it is simply
information gathering. I don't have a problem with that, but in
general I think most view ufology as a quest for resolution to a
specific set of mysteries (which has unfortunately been allowed
to include too much).

>>Whatever one wants to do to further their personal goals and
>>furtherance of humanity(as long as it doesn't hurt someone else)
>>is fine, and many are obviously devoting their lives to the
>>furtherance of their beliefs in UFOs, Abductions, or whatever.
>>Some, like myself, are only in this as a scientific pursuit.
>>Remove that as a goal and I'm outta here (and I've almost bailed
>>a couple of times already).

>I proposed no contest between science and the spiritual. They
>exist because one cannot exist without the other. One step
>before the Big bang came the original thought. That is the
>miracle and unknowable. At the moment of the Big Bang came the
>enlightenment to search, both spiritually and scientifically for
>the Galelian quest of the most important questions...who am I?
>Where did I come from and why am I here? Scientifically and
>spiritually impossible to answer, but the quest that brings
>forth our own humanity.

In general, the "I think therefore I am" statement is enough
philosophy for me and I have no real curiosity beyond that. In
general, I'm too busy with real life issues to worry about it.

In ufology (IMO), we have a very well defined struggle between
"science" and "religion/beliefs" that tends to define what it
is.

>>There _are_ a number of scientists involved in this research,
>>and they understand perfectly well why this has become such a
>>challange. The reasons are many, but as long as the field
>>continues to be the circus that it is today, we are far from
>>gaining any respect from those outside our tent. Is that respect
>>important? Are we content to speculate among ourselves and build
>>on a belief structure, debating issues until we reduce ourselves
>>to name calling? These are questions that each of us have to
>>answer for ourselves.

>The "circus" isn't important, nor is the need for "respect." The
>quest for knowledge is the fulcrum.

Careful, you sound a liitle like "V__GER" in the first Star Trek
movie, whose purpose in life was to learn all that is learnable.
In the end, "V__GER" had to commit suicide (my interpretation)
to evolve to the "next level" (whatever that is).

>>Personally, I'm just curious from a scientific perspective and
>>how it will impact society isn't a major issue for me, as I have
>>no real control over that.

>But you do have "control over that" because you search along
>with a great mulitude of others. It is important to you. Deep
>down inside you where no words can exist, you know the phenomena
>has meaning and is therefore important. Isn't that really where
>your quest to understand comes forth and keeps you searching?

Be careful how much you read into people. I have a curiosity
about the subject, but it doesn't rule my life. My quest is only
to find out what can be proven scientifically. I don't really
care about the rest. I am on no quest for the meaning of life, I
am atheist/agnostic and I'll have very little to do with fine
arts of any type. I haven't actually read fictional book in 30
years, and haven't read any book cover to cover in a decade.

I find no great meaning in this quest, but I'm curious. If the
kooks and crackpots take full control of the conversation I'll
take my curiosity elsewhere, which would be the natural way of
things. We have created an inclusive environment and invited
everyone into our tent, but we've now lost focus.

All this being said, it's really a very personal perspective and
I'm not attempting to sway anyone else's views or beliefs.


Steve








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                       The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part I

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:04:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:04:52 -0400
Subject: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part I




For The Record

The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part I

From Glenn Campbell's Groom Lake Desert Rat

ebk

-----


Date: 04-05-95 (04:10)       Number: 3860 of 3867 (Refer# NONE)
 To: ALL
From: UFO-L.nul
Subj: Groom Lake Desert Rat #24
Read: (N/A)             Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Conf: UFO-L (6679)        Read Type: READING ALL (A) (+)

Message-Id: <9504050426.AA03991.nul>
Date:     Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:51:34 -0800
From: psyspy.nul
Subject:   Groom Lake Desert Rat #24 (1/2)
To: Multiple recipients of list UFO-L <UFO-L.nul>

THE GROOM LAKE DESERT RAT.  An On-Line Newsletter.

Issue #24. April 4, 1995.

 -----> "The Naked Truth from Open Sources." <-----

AREA 51/NELLIS RANGE/TTR/NTS/S-4?/WEIRD STUFF/DESERT LORE

Direct from the "UFO Capital," Rachel, Nevada.
Written, published, copyrighted and totally disavowed by
psychospy.nul See bottom for subscription/copyright info.

[This file ends with "###".]

In this issue...

   THE STORY OF "JAROD"

   ALL ABOUT BORON

   GROOM IN "OUTBREAK"

   CAMPBELL BANNED FROM A'LE'INN

   OUR READERS RESPOND

   LINCOLN COUNTY IN THE NEWS

   INTEL BITTIES


 ----- THE STORY OF "JAROD" -----

What first brought significant attention to Area 51 was the
testimony of Bob Lazar, who went on Las Vegas TV in April and
November of 1989 to claim that he had worked with alien
spacecraft at Papoose Lake, south of Groom. He saw nine saucer-
shaped craft, he claimed, stored in camouflaged hangars built
into a hillside. There was a minor blip in the media as "Current
Affair" and a few other tabloid shows picked up the story, but
for the most part Lazar remained unknown outside Las Vegas and
the community of UFO believers. Lazar lost credibility when his
educational credentials could not be verified and when he
pleaded guilty to a criminal charge relating to an illegal
brothel. The Lazar movie, once optioned by New Line Cinema, has
not yet come to pass, and Lazar himself has shown little
interest in speaking further about his experiences. There's a
well-paid niche awaiting him on the UFO lecture circuit--a
trusting environment where veracity is rarely questioned--but
Lazar has declined most offers with appropriate disdain.

The Lazar story was superior to most other UFO claims because he
offered specific technical details about the operation of the
craft but claimed to know little about the program as a whole.
His experience was limited to a few days on the job, and when
recounting it, he was careful to delineate what he did and did
not know for sure. Lazar's claims imply a longstanding
relationship between the aliens and a secret division of the
U.S. government. They suggest that the issue of "Unidentified
Flying Objects" is moot, because the government has already
identified both the craft and their owners, has been in direct
contact with them and has assembled a substantial database of
relevant information.

The problem with the Lazar story is that it has come from Lazar
alone. A program such as he described would seem to require a
large number of employees at multiple sites, but none have come
forward in a public forum to confirm any of Lazar's claims.

That is, until now...

 ..... INTRODUCING JAROD (1 AND 2) .....

Our source has chosen "Jarod" as his pseudonym. That's
pronounced "JAY-rod," which is the name of a certain individual
for whom our source has great respect. The original Jarod is an
alien, working here on earth as a scientific translator for the
secret government research program. We have seen a sketch of
"Jarod 1" drawn by our source, "Jarod 2." Jarod 1 is a handsome
looking Gray, like you've probably seen on UFO shows on TV. He
has a large, round, hairless head, with an expressionless slit
for a mouth, two small holes for a nose and big, black
wraparound eyes. He has four long fingers on each hand, ending
in very long, Howard Hughes-style nails. Unlike on television,
this Gray is dressed in human clothing. He is wearing a button-
down shirt and is shown in the sketch in a relaxed, human-like
posture as though sitting behind a desk. Our source explains
that the street clothes are intended only to put at ease the
humans who must interact with the alien. Our source says (with
some ambiguity), that when Jarod 1 speaks to you, "you hear it
in your own voice."

Jarod 2 (henceforth simply "Jarod") is a human. He is a retired
70-year-old mechanical engineer who grew up in Pennsylvania and
who says he worked for the secret government program from the
mid- 1950s until his retirement in the late 1980s. We cannot
attest to anything about Jarod's claims except that he has made
them to us directly and we feel that, according our own private
system of evaluation, he is genuine. We have not attempted to
verify anything about his background. Our style is to take him
at his word, collect the story as "folklore," then look for
connections with the body of folklore we are assembling from
other sources. What is true or false, we believe, will shake out
on its own, because any fiction, carefully explored, will
eventually prove inconsistent with itself. In the meantime, a
well-crafted story is rare enough that it deserves appreciation
on its own merits, independent of how it pans out.

In this case, even more than others, we have used a pseudonym
for our source not to hide him from the government, which seems
perfectly aware of his activities, but to protect him from an
onslaught of UFO believers, tabloid TV shows and, yes, alien
ambassadors. The Ambassador Merlyn Merlin II from the planet
Draconis, a self-proclaimed alien in human form who preaches his
own peculiar religion [DR#2, #23], is already aware of some of
Jarod's claims and has camped out in his car in front of Jarod's
house as though it were some sort of temple. As is Merlin's
style, he made enough of a pain of himself that he had to be
chased away by some firm discourtesy. There are a lot of
Ambassador Merlins on earth, maybe not all of alien origin, but
still capable of draining the life out of anyone they latch
onto. They come to a witness like Jarod to preach to him their
UFO gospel and seek confirmation for what they already believe.

Jarod's story is a compelling one, with all the elements
necessary to make it the obsession of many a UFO fanatic. It
could also become a tabloid extravaganza. "Encounters" [DR#10]
has been calling him, as have been organizers of UFO conventions
in California who want to pay him big bucks to speak--no
verification required. Jarod has so far declined these offers.
Jarod has already spoken, in a low-key way and without pay, at
some minor UFO gatherings. He is not a flamboyant speaker, and
he is easy to overlook among the extravagant claims and slick
sales presentations at many UFO events. Nonetheless, word is
starting to get around among the reasonably intelligent that
this witness is a cut above the rest. We imagine that his name
will be well- known before long, but we do not want to do
anything to hasten the process. We are fond of Jarod, and do not
want to jeopardize his privacy or the good will of his former
employers.

..... JAROD'S CLAIMS .....

In summary, this is what Jarod claims....

-- For over 30 years, Jarod worked on the mechanical design for
simulators for human reproductions of alien flying saucers.
These simulators are used to train pilots to fly the craft, but
they are more than just a cockpit. They reproduce the entire
craft, inside and out. Jarod says he knows of three of these
simulators now in operation.

-- Although he worked only with the human built simulators, some
of the technical details he is familiar with reflect on those of
the original craft. The simulators closely match the kind of
craft Lazar describes, with a reactor in the middle and three
gravity amplifiers below deck.

-- Jarod's working environment was highly compartmentalized and
all information strictly controlled--so much so that routine
communications with other groups was severely impeded.
Nonetheless, Jarod and his group were briefed over the years on
human contact with the aliens and the secret government program
that works with them. Jarod does not claim to know the whole
story of what the aliens and secret program are up to but he
offers some intriguing hints. (E.g. "Boron")

-- On several occasions, Jarod 2 has seen Jarod 1, the Gray, but
has never communicated with him.

-- Jarod has been speaking to us and to the small UFO groups
with the permission of his former employers. He is speaking at
his own initiative, but he clears what he says with his former
boss first. Some topics have been nixed and others approved, and
what he has told us so far appears to be only a small part of
what he knows.

We acknowledge that this is a lot to swallow at once. Many
similar claims have been made in the UFO literature over the
years, not many of them credible. What makes Jarod different for
us is that we know him personally. We have talked with him many
times over the past six months, and we see in his words and
behavior all the nuances of reality. We also know several
members of his family, and they all regard him as truthful,
although a bit of a mystery even to them. Jarod's brother and
son knew that he worked for classified defense-related projects
throughout his career but they say he has never discussed his
work until recently. We can confirm, by visits to Jarod's
workshop behind his house, that he has an exceptional talent
with things mechanical. Like Lazar, he can get totally wrapped
up in technical projects and lose track of almost everything
else.

We do not expect our readers to trust our judgment or accept
Jarod's claims as truth. We know what the skeptics' position
will be: that Jarod is a distracted "Walter Mitty" merely
recycling the standard folklore he read in the UFO literature.
Nonetheless, he is adding a few new twists we haven't heard
before and presents us with a story of considerable depth. We
ask our readers to suspend judgment for now. We should focus
first on understanding the story itself and on trying to
integrate it into our body of existing folklore.

 ..... HISTORY OF THE PROGRAM .....

Jarod spent most of his career at "Facility X," which he does
not identify directly but that appears to be Los Alamos
Laboratories in New Mexico. Specific facilities are one of the
things he is not supposed to talk about. Curiously, there do not
seem to be as many restrictions on his discussion of the aliens
or of the early government program that first made contact with
them.

Jarod's story, like Lazar's, is rich and complex enough that we
cannot recount it all in one Rat issue. We shall focus for now
on the history of the secret government program, which has
already been alluded to by Alfred [DR#23], Knapp's source "from
a prominent Nevada family" [DR#22] and many other anonymous
sources in the UFO literature. The secret program, it is said,
was begun in the late 1940's or early 1950's after a series of
UFO crashes in the southwestern U.S. provided the government
with undeniable proof of the alien presence. Apart from the
famous Roswell incident, there have supposedly been crashes at
Aztec, New Mexico; in northwestern Arizona near Kingman and
perhaps at other sites. Hardware, bodies and even some live ones
were recovered, and government officials were pressed to decide
what to do.

We will let Jarod explain the history in his own words. The
passage below is reprinted from a recent series of faxes from
Jarod to us. We have corrected the spelling and made some minor
grammatical changes for clarity. We have also edited the
manuscript to limit it to the program history, saving other
topics for the future. Otherwise, this is Jarod's own report on
the content of the briefings given to his design group. Jarod
himself has reviewed this issue of the Rat and finds it to be
accurate as far as he knows, and presumably it is also
acceptable to his bosses.

---

This is the way I recall what was explained to the group I was
assigned to, and only after we were all cleared for the project
that was to be our responsibility (mechanical design for the
avionics on the flight deck for the disc simulators).

To protect what was found at the disc crash sites in New Mexico
and Arizona, those in charge at the time scrambled for a
position and a decision as to whom in the government would carry
the responsibility. This included security, material,
personnel, documents and military and civilian intelligence.

It was not decided until the Eisenhower administration in the
early part of 1953. A group was formed by the President, and
the chairman of the group was Vice President Richard M. Nixon.
 Around June of 1953, the final decision was made to set up a
"satellite government." This separate government would
interface with the U.S. Government for support only. Personnel
involved in any part of disc retrieval, including first hand
knowledge, were reassigned as satellite government entities.
 Additionally, new security requirements were established and
new clearances assigned... Normally, clearances take 2 to 3
years for any responsible positions connected with disc design.
 (Bob Lazar was an unusual case due to his recommendation by
Teller. This gave him an edge without going through a long
clearance process. Teller is high up in the satellite
government organization.) The rule for disclosure of
information is 15 years after retirement in cases like mine...
Here is a list of what is classified under their rules:
technical data, drawings, photos, sketches, illustrations,
procedures, all documents relating to personnel, companies,
related associate military groups, code names, types of
classifications, names of people, etc. Yes, I have dropped a
few names, but only with permission. During my tenure at
Facility X, Nixon and another former president made visits. We
even got a handshake. What was amusing to us in the group was
that most other visitors to our facility did not shake our hands
nor did we know their names; they were familiar to us by face
only.

The background as told to my group had some very interesting
twists regarding craft retrieval and the first visitor
encounter. Little did the government know that retrieval
operations were monitored by the visitors. They, the visitors,
were well aware of the mishap of one of their vessels; however,
the military got to the crash site first. No details were
provided to us on how contact was made to set up the initial
meeting. The reason for contact almost 6 years after the
Roswell incident was recalled as follows: The vessel that fell
in Arizona in 1953 contained four entities; two were disabled
and two were reasonably well but somewhat confused. (The
visitors monitoring the retrieval activities noted with much
pleasure the humane treatment provided to those involved.) All
entities were later taken to Facility X for medical treatment
and tests. Additionally, before leaving the scene, the two that
were standing upright were allowed to re-enter the vessel. They
entered the craft and disappeared from view. Some time had
passed before exiting; it was later assumed that they were
communicating with the monitoring craft.

A bizarre situation was encountered at the retrieval site. With
the entities removed from the area, work proceeded: clean up and
loading of the vessel on a trailer used to haul Sherman tanks.
While preparations for this were being made, an entry crew was
formed. They were dressed in clean-room clothing with medical
surgical masks. The size of the crew was not mentioned to us.
Communications was set up prior to entry. What happened when
the entry crew went inside the vessel was noted as follows:

Communications failed. After one hour inside, the crew
emerged from the craft confused and with upset stomachs. They
removed their masks and threw up. What was astonishing, they
could not remember any of the inside details of the craft. The
craft was sealed, camouflaged, loaded and shipped to an
undisclosed Nevada test facility. The entry crew was sent to
Facility X to undergo medical examinations. Results of the
tests were not explained to us.

The vessel was exactly 10 meters in diameter and loading it on
the tank retriever was simple. However, the overhang raised
some concern due to road width. Since the pneuma-grips were
still in place, it was decided to raise one end of the vessel to
reduce the width. To the astonishment of retrieval crew, the
crane located on the tank retriever was unable to raise the
vessel. Horizontally raising or lowering was simple with no
effort by the crane. Finally, it was decided to use the house-
moving method with road blocks secured by military vehicles.
 Upon arrival in Nevada, two conditions annoyed our best
intelligence support: (1) the problem with re-entry and (2) a
strange low frequency humming sound still emitting from the
lower part of the hull.

A particular item came to light as an anecdote: A member of the
initial entry crew happened to be a fighter pilot. When asked
if he would like to be part of the crew on the second attempt at
reentry, without much hesitation he said, 'I would rather take a
rocket ship to Hell than to go back inside that craft.' So it
was a major item that had to be considered in the plan. It
became paramount what the first item was: Establish a
communications link with the boys. The boys had their own
agenda: They were busily doing their own analysis of items
provided in the quarantine area. This included food, facilities
and us. It began to appear that we were the captees and they
were the captors.

The entities, referred to now as the "boys," were secured in a
medical facility that was manned by doctors, bioastronautic
physicists, chemists and linguist. Initially, communications
were limited to basic sign language. The first significant
communication was between the bioastronautic engineer and the
tallest entity of the four, who was dubbed 'Smiling Eyes.' This
happening pleased the people in charge, but what ensued created
a dilemma: The boys wanted to return to their vessel. After
much deliberation, it was agreed to take them to the Nevada Test
Site where the vessel was now located. They, the boys, were
pleased upon inspection of the vessel's condition. The hatch
was reopened for their entry. The four filed in. After a few
minutes, the hum was silenced. 'Smiling Eyes' came out and went
directly to the bioastronautic engineer requesting his presence
in the craft. The team leader gave the okay and the two
entered. After some time passed, both made their exit. The
engineer looked well and smiling. The final outcome of this
process was good news for the management. A request was made by
the leader of the boys that they be housed at the Test Site, and
they made additional requests for material, equipment and
literature. So began a new era.

Before proceeding any further, one item has to be understood.
All of the information presented here was provided to our group
over a number of years, generally in technical briefings, design
differences and discussions of classified requirements. The
fact that we were young nuts-and-bolts type engineers made us
quite skeptical of most information. After each session there
was a lot of chuckles and further discussion within the group.
 Little did we know at the time that we were being monitored.
 Our comments were aired in following sessions in a very subtle
manner; it did take some time to catch on. This made a big
difference as time went on as our joking diminished with only
serious discussions by the group after meetings.

To provide an illustration on how the structure of the program
was decided on, one only has to look at the existing government.
Think about what you would do to maintain a level of secrecy of
something inherently totally bizarre in nature. Nixon did it
right by establishing the satellite government. This provided
cover for the visitors plus a totally new concept for protecting
all information relating to this subject. The most complicated
provisions of this pact was meeting the demands of the boys.

Selection of personnel in the organization was directed by the
visitors. The leader was named to be the bioastronomical
engineer who first made contact; his name cannot be told at this
time. You cannot imagine the situation this caused. It was
like putting a private in charge of the generals. Nearly all
appointments were selected from the science field. All of the
direction did not come from those boys picked up in the Arizona
scenario: There is a chain of command. What they asked for is
not completely known but some of the items included materials.
 One item was boron. We use this material for many things such
as metals and nuclear processes. Some discord between the us
and the boys was identified but it was not necessarily a problem
that could not be dealt with.

What is surprising to me after reading many of the UFO books and
listening to various speakers on this subject is that they
almost have it right. But the information they are looking for
is not in the known governmental chain of agencies but only in
the exacto facto organization described above. It is believed
that release of further information will come from the visitors
themselves, but it will be accomplished a piece at a time. If
you have understood any of the above it should give one clue.
Impatience is not a virtue of the visitors. To shed some light
on how it will proceed the example is a recent episode going on
in New Mexico. (Reference the recent Midway sightings by a
family in New Mexico.) Of course, this is where most all
activity began. From what I know, the exacto facto government is
again scrambling for a solution; the probable reason is
distrust, not us of them, but them of us. These displays are
one way for them to show disfavor. From my experience, the boys
are very conservative with some emotions and occasionally show a
sense of humor. Hard to get used to but nonetheless amusing.
 Whatever way they decide, I am sure it will be beneficial to
mankind. For me, the sooner the better, some weights will be
removed.

No, I am not radical, just a practical engineer.

---

We will probably have more from Jarod in future issues.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 25

                      The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part II

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:13:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:13:24 -0400
Subject: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part II




For The Record

The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part II

From Glenn Campbell's Groom Lake Desert Rat

ebk

-----

Date: 06-13-95 (04:26)              Number: 4757 of 4765 (Refer# NONE)
  To: ALL
From: UFO-L.nul
Subj: Groom Lake Desert Rat #27
Read: (N/A)                         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Conf: UFO-L (6679)               Read Type: READING ALL (A) (R/O) (+)

Date:         Mon, 12 Jun 1995 16:03:33 -0800
From: Area 51 Research Center <psyspy.nul>
Subject:      Groom Lake Desert Rat #27 (1/3)
To: Multiple recipients of list UFO-L <UFO-L.nul>

THE GROOM LAKE DESERT RAT.   An On-Line Newsletter.
Issue #27.  June 12, 1995.

 -----> "The Naked Truth from Open Sources." <-----
AREA 51/NELLIS RANGE/TTR/NTS/S-4?/WEIRD STUFF/DESERT LORE

Direct from Las Vegas, the Center of Human Civilization.
Written, published, copyrighted and totally disavowed by
psychospy.nul See bottom for subscription/copyright info.

In this issue...

     JAROD'S SIMULATOR
     DESERT BLAST
     THE LOONS ARE WINNING
     CLARK'S SIGHTING QUESTIONED
     POP CULTURE WATCH
     MT. CURY HIKE JUNE 24
     INTEL BITTIES
     LITTLE A'LE'INN ON-LINE?



windows for        _______|_______
navigation sys.-->/ turret|       \              ]5'  ]9'
                 /        |        \             ]    ]
             _.~'         | flight  '~._         ]    ]
         _.~'             |  deck       '~._     ]    ]
     _.~'     open space  |_________________'~._ ]    ]
 _.~'                     |                     '~._  ]
|           _ _ _         |         _ _ _ capacitor | ]
{<-anodes  | | | |       _^_       | | | |banks     } ]
|__________|_|_|_|______|   |______|_|_|_|__________| ]
 ~._                |   |___|   |                _.~ ]
    '~._           ===         ===           _.~'    ]
        '~._       |||         |||       _.~'        ]
disc is     '~._   ===         ===   _.~'            ]
30' diameter    '~--------0--------~'                ]4'
13' high                  |
                         / \  Simulator pivots at base
                        /   \
_______________________/_____\_________________________





 ----- JAROD'S SIMULATOR -----

As reported in DR#24, we know a retired engineer who claims to
have worked for over 30 years on a project to build flight
simulators for human reproductions of alien spacecraft. As he
explains it, when any kind of aircraft is in development, a flight
simulator is built in parallel with it to train pilots and test
systems. Jarod 2 defines a simulator as something that "simulates
an actual device or craft to enable the operator to reproduce
conditions or phenomena likely to occur in actual performance."
The simulator he worked on just happened to be a reproduction of a
flying saucer, identical in appearance to the actual craft except
that the simulator was attached to the ground through a gimbaled
base. Our source believes, without question, that the actual
craft, although built by humans, is based on extraterrestrial
technology.

The following is our condensation of what Jarod has relayed to us
over the course of many conversations. He has reviewed this
summary before publication and says it is accurate.

In the 1940s and early 1950s, several flying saucers crashed in
the southwestern U.S.--why or how isn't clear. The American
military recovered hardware, dead aliens and even a few live ones.
Through these first "emissaries," communication was eventually
established between us and them. We entered into some form of
trade with the aliens. Maybe they had a genuine need for some
earthly materials, or maybe this trade was just an excuse to build
a relationship--by communicating with the earthlings in their own
primitive economic terms. In any case, "The Boys" gave us some of
their technology, which we sought to reproduce in a secret saucer
program of our own.

This was a very long-term project that started in the mid-50s,
shortly before Jarod joined it. The organization was heavily
compartmentalized, and Jarod knows only as much as he needed to
know to do his job. Working on such an exotic technology, the
workers had to know at least the basics of where it came from.
Briefings over the years confirmed that the technology was indeed
extraterrestrial. Jarod and his co-workers were told about the
early contacts between the aliens and our military [DR#24], but
they were not told about the alien agenda or what was happening at
present. All of the U.S. government's UFO information had been
isolated in an organization that Jarod calls the "Satellite
Government." Once employed by this agency, he says, you are
employed for life. Jarod worked with the same design team for
over 30 years, and apart from death and retirement, there was very
little turnover. Security restrictions were oppressive, but Jarod
was always happy with his job and worked well within his group,
which was concerned with the mechanical design of certain
components of the simulator.

Like other engineers, Jarod spent most of his time in a drafting
room. This was a typical design office without partitions that he
shared with the other members of his group. Unlike other
engineers, though, Jarod could not communicate directly with his
counterparts in any other discipline, due to security
requirements. When he was designing a component for the
simulator, he could not talk to the person who was working on the
same component in the real craft. If there was a question, it had
to be passed first to his boss, who conveyed it to the leader of
the other group who passed it down to the appropriate individual.
A time delay in the movements of documents and hardware indicated
that the design for the operational craft was conducted at a
facility elsewhere. Other inferences could be made about the real
craft from the feedback received, but Jarod played no role in that
craft's design or construction. Nonetheless, Jarod believes that
the simulator is an accurate reproduction of the actual craft.

Only occasionally would Jarod and his group visit the simulator,
which was housed in a separate building at the same facility.
They might spend a couple of hours fitting a component and then
leave. It was on these visits to the simulator that Jarod 2, the
human engineer, occasionally saw Jarod 1, a gray alien who was
serving as a technical advisor to the program. Since the group
had already been briefed on the presence of the aliens, the
appearance of Jarod 1 in the simulator room seemed almost routine.
He had the unmistakable hairless, expressionless head and
wraparound eyes we have all seen drawings of, but this alien was
dressed in human clothes. The shoes were different and the four-
fingered hands were long and almost claw-like, but otherwise this
could have been any other technician. Jarod 2 has great respect
for Jarod 1, hence his choice of code names, but 1 and 2 never
communicated with each other directly.

Jarod 2 has reasonable confidence in Bob Lazar's story of working
with alien craft at Papoose Lake, south of Groom Lake. [See HERE
in WWW for article by Campbell on Lazar.] In his workshop at home
Jarod has taken Testor's flying saucer model kit, which is based
on Lazar's description, and made some minor modifications to turn
it into a model of the simulator he helped design. The main
difference is that Jarod's saucer is taller to accommodate humans,
while Lazar's was apparently intended only for the little guys.
Jarod has increased the height of the Lazar model by separating
the top and bottom halves with a cylindrical wall of plexiglas.
Instead of the edges of the saucer ending in a sharp point, they
now end in a flat vertical wall, which is about three feet high in
the actual simulator. Jarod says that certain dimensions of the
craft are critical, but the height is not. To reproduce the
gimbaled mount which attaches the disc simulator to the ground,
Jarod has taken the ball joint from a car's rear-view mirror,
glued the mirror side into the bottom of the Testor's model and
screwed the ball side into the top of a heavy trophy that he had
once received from the Shriners for some volunteer work.

The simulator is entered through a close-fitting hatch in the side
wall extending to part of the top shell. The inside is basically
a big open space, divided by a floor one-third up from the base.
In the middle of this deck is a "reactor" similar to the one Lazar
describes, although Jarod does not know what goes on inside. (He
suggests that the reactor assembly in the simulator may have been
only a facsimile.) A pipe about six inches in diameter runs from
the top of the reactor straight up through the center of the craft
and through the roof, forming an "antenna" on top. Although it is
out of his field, Jarod thinks that this pipe is important for
keeping the craft upright while in flight. The 3-foot-high
"turret" on the top of the craft, which Lazar describes as
containing a closed deck that he was never allowed to see, is open
in Jarod's model and contains some instrumentation which is
accessible from the flight deck. Installed here is a celestial
navigation system, which (in the operational craft) looks out
through windows in the turret to measure positions of stars. This
a common navigation system for missiles and aircraft, but it might
be useful beyond the bounds of earth.

There is no real "front" or "back" to the craft. It can travel in
any direction, and "front," for human convenience, is wherever you
chose to put the flight deck. Jarod says that there are
horizontal "poles," however, called north and south, and these
poles play a role in how the craft makes turns. Inside, sectors
of the craft are referred to by 360 degree bearings from north,
like a compass rose. Jarod has referred to the craft as a small
"planet" of its own with magnetic, electrical and gravity fields
much like Earth's.

The flight deck on Jarod's craft occupies about one half (or 180
degrees) of the inner chamber. It is on a secondary deck raised
above the main deck about 3 or 4 feet and accessed by a small,
curving staircase. On the flight deck are three chairs, two in
front as might be suitable for the pilot and co-pilot, and one at
a desk in back of them, which might be envisioned as the navigator
or observer. There are no windows for the pilot, only control
panels resembling those found in a conventional aircraft. Having
the flight deck on one side of the craft might seem to make it
lopsided, much heavier on one side than the other, but this was of
little concern, Jarod says. Center of gravity isn't important
when you can control gravity itself.

Below the main deck are three vertical cylinders hanging on
gimbaled mounts. Lazar refers to these as "gravity amplifiers,"
but Jarod does not know their function. Jarod says he designed
these assemblies and the mounts that hold them, but on the
simulator they are empty dummies needed only for appearances.
They are capable of swinging up 60 degrees in any direction, which
coincides with the angle that the entire simulator can pivot on
its mount. A 60 degree angle is pretty extreme: When the craft
dips over that far, one would expect that anyone sitting on the
flight deck would not remain seated unless belted in, but Jarod
emphasizes that there are no seat belts in this simulator.

In other words, in the simulator--not just in the operational
craft--some sort of artificial gravity is maintained to keep the
operators in their seats, and this internal gravity has nothing to
do with the "gravity amplifiers" below deck. Being involved only
in the mechanical design of the control panels, mounts and various
housings that things are put into, Jarod does not know how the
gravity system works, but he thinks that the floors and walls of
the craft are more than just passive supports; they are a
sophisticated system. Jarod describes the floor as a "collapsing
grid" which repeatedly stores an electrical charge and then
releases it. (This confuses us a bit, because Lazar also refers
to a "collapsing grid" in his flying saucer poster, but only as a
mechanical cover for a hatch on the floor.)

There are also banks of very sophisticated capacitors bolted to
the main deck on either side of the reactor. There are six
cylindrical capacitors altogether, three on either side of center,
capable of storing an enormous electrical charge. Jarod equates
them to the starter coil in an automobile, which builds up a high
voltage to generate an arc in the spark plugs. It is unclear (to
us) whether the capacitors are only in the simulator or in the
operational craft as well.

Power for the simulator comes through cables entering the disk
near the gimbaled base, where air conditioning ducts and data
cables also enter. We have asked Jarod why the capacitors have to
be on board the simulator: Why can't they be kept on the ground
and their power output brought in through the umbilicals? Jarod
thinks that, because of the enormous voltage involved, the
capacitors have to be as close as possible to the place where the
power is used. The output of the capacitors runs directly into
the reactor (or reactor facsimile).

Along the outside perimeter of the craft, in the middle of the
three-foot side walls, are a ring of embedded anodes, about 48
altogether. Each is a circle about 3" wide and protruding about
1/2" from the side of the craft. Jarod knows only that these
generate some sort of electrical field around the edge of the
simulator.

Most of the simulator, and probably also the operating craft, is
constructed of a boron composite which is dull metallic in
appearance but is both very light and extremely strong. An
exception is the reactor assembly, which Jarod says is similar in
appearance to iconel steel. The reactor was designed by another
group and is bolted into a hole in the middle of the main deck.
Otherwise, the simulator is composed of four 90-degree pie-shaped
pieces which can be taken apart for shipping. After the simulator
was finished, which took over two decades, it was indeed taken
apart and hauled away, most likely to a secret Nevada facility.

 ..... QUESTIONS .....

Many of our questions remain unanswered. On most of them, Jarod
says he simply does not know, and these gaps seem consistent with
his compartmentalized role as a mechanical engineer, not as a
propulsion expert or someone in management who needed to know the
big picture. He designed only the boxes and shells of various
assemblies; he never knew much about what went in them. On a few
other questions, Jarod does know the answers, but he is
withholding them until he gets the okay from his boss to speak.
This idea of Jarod speaking "with permission" is probably the most
intriguing element of all.

One question we had is why artificial gravity needs to be asserted
in the simulator. If this earthbound disc can pivot up to 60
degrees, but internal gravity counteracts this so no seatbelts are
needed and the operator still thinks he is sitting upright, why
bother with the exercise at all? What not just keep the simulator
horizontal? Jarod offers no insights here, but we have our own
theory: The operator of the craft needs to learn to adjust the
internal gravity to compensate for external changes in angle and
acceleration. If he doesn't do it right, he is going to be
slammed into the walls of the craft, which a simulator angle of 60
degrees might give him a feeling for.

We still have difficulty reconciling the many manipulations of
gravity and electricity that appear to be involved in the
operational craft. There seems to be gravity coming from the
floor, gravity emitting from the below-deck amplifiers and gravity
shooting through that pipe in the ceiling. There is electricity
stored and released from the capacitors, electricity stored and
released in the floor, and electricity generating a field around
the outside of the craft. Eventually, these effects may turn out
to be different aspects of the same unified system, but now we are
seeing only disconnected fragments.

Why would the government want to reproduce the craft, and why
would the aliens, represented by Jarod 1, want to help us do it?
J-2 has no answer, but he had alluded to the fact that in some
cases our alien advisors could help us with a technical problem
but won't. Like a school teacher withholding the solution to a
math problem, they seem to want us to figure things out for
ourselves so we gain the skills for future use. Although we are
reproducing alien craft, we are doing it within our own technical
and social framework. The alien control systems in the original
craft, which are unusable to our pilots, have been replaced by the
sort of avionics that our engineers already familiar with. For
example, Jarod says there are gyros to indicate the tilt of the
craft. (We wondered if the gravity system might interfere with a
gyroscope, but Jarod says no.)

Apparently the profit motive does not drive these aliens, because
if it did they would be selling us fish instead teaching us how to
fish. Any self-respecting Ferengi wouldn't let the technology out
of his hands; instead, he would sell only finished discs to the
humans, along with a hefty service contract. Our own speculation
is that the need to build the discs is political: to eventually
allay the fears of the public when news of the alien presence
finally gets out. Since the aliens can violate our airspace at
will and could probably blow us out of the solar system if they
chose, it would make humanity feel less vulnerable if our
government had the craft, too. Never mind that these discs are
probably their old fashioned beaters (in Jarod's words, "their old
B-52s") compared to the latest models they are probably keeping to
themselves; at least the token achievement of flying something
that is round could be enough to defuse the more hysterical of the
earthlings.

In that context, the nearly 50-year cover-up of UFO information
might be reasonable. It could take half a century to lay the
groundwork for an orderly release of the news. Of course, our
government has a celebrated inertia about releasing its secrets,
especially when they might be self-incriminating. No agency that
wants to preserve its funding is eager to tell the public, "We've
been lying to you for fifty years." This permanent embrace is
often cited by ufologists as the reason why the information will
probably be withheld indefinitely, but the motivations of the
government may not be as important as they seem. There is another
party involved, the aliens themselves, and the cover-up will hold
only as long as they cooperate. If they decide that the time has
come for the information to get out, it certainly will.

The most peculiar aspect of Jarod's story is the idea that he is
speaking with permission of his superiors (who are still his
superiors even though he has retired). After investing so much in
secrecy over the years, why would his bosses let him break the
silence? In short, it fits the old UFO cliche about the
government leaking the information slowly to prepare society for
the Big Announcement. In Jarod's claims, and perhaps other
ambiguous releases like the alleged MJ-12 papers, the facts could
effectively be "leaked" while plausible deniability is maintained.
Jarod, for example, has nothing substantial to back up his claims:
no documents or physical evidence. He is, to any skeptic, just a
retired guy telling a tall tale. He doesn't seem to care if
anyone believes him, and indeed his credibility doesn't matter
much to the acclimation process. At least he has caught the ear
of Psychospy, and here in the Desert Rat, Jarod's scenario is now
being distributed to the UFO subculture. Charlatans like Sean
Morton and morons like Chuckie will adopt the story as "theirs,"
add to it their own flourishes and ridiculous folklore and promote
it to the world. The loonies will then take over, as they have
now in Rachel, and shoot to hell whatever credibility there once
was in the original tale. Nonetheless, the basic information will
still have embedded itself in the subculture's psyche and might
carry the movement just a little bit closer to the truth.

 ..... JAROD'S PAST .....

Although we have not sought it, we have some evidence that Jarod
indeed has a past employment history in government engineering
programs. Jarod's son, who is as mystified about his father's
disc stories as anyone, says his father did work for government
contractors at several sites, including Cape Canaveral. The son
says he never knew much about what his father did, perhaps in part
because his parents were divorced and he lived with his mother
The son says his father never discussed flying discs until
recently, but he also says, "My father has never lied to me."
Both father and son happened to work at the same time at the
Nevada Test Site for a brief period in the 1970s, when the son was
an X-ray technician and Jarod worked on the NERVA nuclear rocket
program ("Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application").

Jarod has shown us a photo of himself in a clean-room suit with
two other technicians standing in front of the NERVA rocket
assembly. Jarod says that although his main employment was in the
disc simulator program, there were many periods when his work
there was held up for months at a time due to various technical
hang-ups outside his group (presumably glitches in the development
of the operational craft). At these times, Jarod was reassigned
to other defense or space projects, like NERVA, where his skills
would not be idle. NERVA was one of those fun-with-atomic-energy
projects the government played with for a while at the Nevada Test
Site but that never became practical. This nuclear powered rocket
was going to get us to the stars, but it never left the ground due
to the enormous radiation it spewed in tests. During his
assignment at NERVA, as well as other rocketry projects, Jarod
says his specialty was "bootstrapping." Bootstrapping refers to
the partial recycling of reactants in a chemical system. In this
case, incompletely combusted hydrogen was diverted back into the
engine for reuse.

We have asked Jarod what relevance bootstrapping had to his work
with the disc simulator. Jarod is not specific, but he confirms
that there was some kind of closed chemical system involved.
However, it was not a cooling system as we would have thought
(like freon in an air conditioner). Jarod says that one of the
biggest mysteries to him was the absence of an obvious cooling
mechanism to drain heat from the reactor. He points out that with
so much energy going into the thing, some of it had to come out as
heat, but he saw no evidence of this in the mechanical design.

Of course, we see some irony in Jarod working on a project that
might make all other forms of air and space transportation
obsolete, then being reassigned to an awkward and dirty human
attempt to reach the stars by brute force. Nonetheless, we think
the situation is plausible. NERVA was a here-and-now project, at
least within our technical grasp, while the saucer program might
have been less certain and more long term--"pie in the sky" as it
were. Would the Satellite Government have let other huge space
and defense programs proceed, knowing that they were doomed to
obsolescence, just to keep its own project secret? We believe it
would, and perhaps in a grand historical sense these losses might
be justified.


 ..... PROTESTS .....

"I think you've gone nuts!" writes former Desert Rat subscriber
Larry.nul following DR#24. "First, the 'Cammo Dudes'
successfully distracted your attention from doing real reporting
of the Groom area. Second, somebody has turned you into today's
version of the 1950s Contactee with all this crap about UFOs and
aliens. In the beginning you did excellent work... but you seem
to have lost your way. Please unsubscribe me."

Other readers were more kind in their skepticism. We were scolded
by prominent ufologist Stanton Friedman, who found our account of
"Jarod 2" to be disturbingly lacking in evidence. (Friedman,
incidentally, also says he worked on the NERVA program.) Friedman
has been vocal in his opinion that Bob Lazar is a fraud, and he
seems to be worried that Jarod may represent more of the same.
Indeed, we cannot deny the possibility that Jarod heard about
Lazar's story and built his own fiction upon it. As with
virtually all UFO cases, we have no "proof." All we have is our
own personal instincts about the man--i.e. the sort of acute sixth
sense that has lead to the downfall of many a UFO researcher.

Who needs proof, anyway? We are happy with our life here on
Earth. The Research Center is humming along just fine, concerned
mostly with government accountability, not aliens. The presence
or absence of extraterrestrials on earth is a big deal to some but
we feel less excited. Any revelations in this regard would
certainly change humanity, but not necessarily for better or
worse. What the aliens choose to do is their business. We
American citizens have a right to control over our government, but
we do not control the aliens, and we have no natural right to know
what the aliens know or to demand that they reveal themselves.

Here at the Research Center, all we are looking for is a little
entertainment--something to challenge our mind while we grow old
and die. We have, after all, begun to tire of "Star Trek" in all
its many incarnations; it's just too P.C. We still watch "The X-
Files" in case we might be on it, but we have already caught on
that the Truth will ALWAYS be Out There, just beyond Mulder's
reach, with Scully convinced of nothing. Meanwhile, at our
satellite facility, the "entertainment" of Las Vegas leaves us
with a fashionable ennui: We've seen all the pirate battles and
taken all the rides, so what is there to live for?

All we want is an interesting story, which is something so rare in
this life that when one comes along we wouldn't want to mess it up
with evidence. An intelligently constructed narrative is a thing
of beauty in itself, and exploring it can be as educational and
worthy of our time as any physical endeavor. If you have wandered
a story's many corridors and still it draws you on, it may indeed
turn out to be the truth, but this is incidental and not the main
purpose of the exercise.

In life, as in "The X-Files," the truth will always be Out There,
and we will die without knowing most of it. All we can expect in
our limited tour on Earth is to find a few new facts and slightly
expand borders. We may laugh at our parents and their naive ways,
but our children will laugh at us, and what has really changed
will only be the surface of things. The only education that will
significantly improve our lives is not knowledge but "wisdom"--
that is, the skills to lead a graceful life in an imperfect world
with incomplete information.

Thoughtful stories, be they fiction or real, help us practice
these skills without risk to life or limb. In the case of Jarod's
claims or any other plausible alien tale, the most important thing
we can learn is not whether UFOs are real but how we should
approach the unknown in general. Lesson One is don't make
judgments until you have a practical reason to. Opinions--about
Bob Lazar for example--are a dime a dozen. People, as a rule,
can't stand ambiguity, so they listen for five minutes and then
make up their minds based on whatever detail they have in front of
them. Lazar could not possibly be a scientist and must be a
fraud, we have heard some UFO buffs say, because of the turtleneck
shirt he is wearing, the fast car he drives or the beautiful woman
on his arm. Other UFO believers announce their full confidence in
Lazar for equally inane reasons: They saw a light in the sky in
1963; it wasn't an airplane, so Lazar must be right. Both camps
make up their minds first and recognize only the evidence that
fits.

The main practical reason for judgment is the allocation of
resources. If Lazar or Jarod asked us for money, then we would
have to make up our mind--not necessarily about the whole truth
but only whether the enterprise was a good investment. Likewise,
we must decide at some point whether a particular story is worth
our time to explore, but this decision need only be a relative one
between the available options. Someday, when the evidence is
clear and politics demand it, we may feel compelled to say, "He's
a fraud," or "I believe him completely," thus advising others how
they should spend their resources. These absolute statements
should not be made lightly, however, because they are hard to
reverse, and they stand in the way of further inquiry.

 ..... AN ALTERNATE SCENARIO .....

We do not claim to have proof that Jarod and Lazar are telling the
truth. Another scenario is also possible: In 1989, Lazar could
have concocted his "S-4" story to dupe John Lear, who was telling
colorful UFOs-at-51 stories since a couple of years before. After
meeting Lear by chance, Lazar sees in him an easy mark, and he
"leaks" to him the news that his far-out theories are essentially
correct and that Lazar happened to have found work in a similar
facility. The story is picked up by local newscaster George
Knapp, who falls for Lazar's smooth and sincere-sounding style.
Knapp broadcasts the hoax to Las Vegas in his "Best Evidence"
series, and it hits the national UFO press in a big way.
Eventually, a plastic model is made and a movie deal signed, and
Lazar conveniently drops out of sight.

Jarod, the human, listens to Lazar's claims in the media and
thinks he can cook up something better. With nothing much to do
in his retirement and after five years of mulling the Lazar
scenario, he comes forward with his own fiction. He finds a
willing dupe in Psychospy, whose star is waning in the UFO scene
and who needs to come up with something new to regain his media
glory. Jarod recycles Lazar's description of the alien craft but
adds some twists, based on his own technical experience, to make
it seem more authentic. There is no Jarod 1. There is no real
disc simulator. Both Jarod and Lazar get exactly what they crave
the most, which is attention.

Okay, so what's the problem? It's still a good story, and we
admire their work.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 25

                      The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part III

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:26:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:26:18 -0400
Subject: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part III




For The Record

The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part III

From Glenn Campbell's Groom Lake Desert Rat

ebk

-----

Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Message-ID: <199507291355.JAA28645.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 07:15:28 -0800
From: Area 51 Research Center <psyspy.nul>
Subject: Groom Lake Desert Rat #28

THE GROOM LAKE DESERT RAT.   An On-Line Newsletter.
Issue #28.  July 28, 1995.
 -----> "The Naked Truth from Open Sources." <-----
AREA 51/NELLIS RANGE/TTR/NTS/S-4?/WEIRD STUFF/DESERT LORE
Direct from Las Vegas, the Center of Human Civilization.
Written, published, copyrighted and totally disavowed by
psychospy.nul See bottom for subscription/copyright info.

In this issue...
     REALITY DEFINED
     THE HUNGARIAN CONNECTION
     MORE DETAILS FROM JAROD
     APPEAL BRIEF FILED
     CAMMO DUDE MANUAL NOW ON-LINE
     INTEL BITTIES

 ----- REALITY DEFINED -----

These are confusing times at the Research Center. All around us
people are making fantastic claims. Bob Lazar and Jarod 2 [DR#24,
#27] say that flying saucers are real and are of alien origin. They
each claim to have participated, in some limited way, in a U.S.
government program to understand and reproduce these extraterrestrial
craft. That's enough to chew on, but there's more! Ambassador Merlyn
Merlin II from Draconis [DR#2, #26] claims he is an alien himself and
that the spaceships are powered by love. Joe Travis of the Little
A'Le'Inn [DR#23] says the flying saucers seen nightly at the Black
Mailbox are manifestations of the secret "New World Order," a
conspiracy backed by the United Nations that is scheming to take away
our guns and then enslave us. Each UFO proponent brings us a piece of
the puzzle, but most of them don't fit, leaving us with as many
questions as when we started.

We are like children playing along the shore of the great unknown.
What is reality anyway? And while we are at it, What is the meaning
of life? Psychospy has pondered these questions at length, and we can
finally reveal the results of our research: Life just is, and reality
is whatever it seems to be. This truth is self-evident to us, but you
earthlings are always trying to make things more complicated than they
need to be; therefore, it might be a good idea to digress for a while
to explain to our readers, in simplest terms, the nature of life on
earth and what we can expect the aliens to do for us. This might help
us put Lazar, Jarod, Merlin and Travis into perspective and keep us
all from going bonkers as we further contemplate the Outer Limits.

 ..... THE NATURE OF LIFE .....

The unknown is an integral element of life. Some people may laugh at
Ambassador Merlin, a outwardly human fool driving a beat-up sedan who
claims to come from a distant star system, but do any of us know where
we really came from? Sure, we know how our bodies emerged. It was
the indiscreet spilling of seminal liquor that put our shell of flesh
on earth.  We are no longer embarrassed to talk about that, but
biology alone does not explain very much about us. Even if we can
figure out how our human machine was built, that does not account for
how each of us got stuck in the middle of it.

Psychospy came into this world in a most peculiar manner, and we can
only assume that it happened about the same for our readers. Through
no will of our own, we just appeared. Our consciousness was sporadic
at first. We can recall isolated images of the bars of our crib and
of crawling on hands and knees on the floor of the house where we grew
up. Eventually, these disconnected scenes seemed to merge together
into one continuous stream, like a long-running British drama on PBS,
lacking ads or background music, about lords, ladies and the domestic
staff suffering quiet angst and subtle conflict without any car chases
or significant bloodshed. To say that we are confused by the process
is an understatement. We haven't a clue as to how we got here or who
is running the show, but we are forced to live out the drama anyway.

There does not have to be any "meaning of life" for us to live it.
Life just is, and like it or not we are caught up in it. From the
moment we appeared on earth, we were faced with problems--how to feed
ourselves, for example, or how to stave off boredom or depression.
The only obvious purpose of life is to solve the challenges that have
befallen us. We didn't ask for our problems, just like we didn't
choose our parents or the less-than-perfect bodies we occupy. If born
in America, we are forced to learn English, drive cars, eat hamburgers
and support ourselves in U.S. dollars. We can do these things well or
do them poorly. There is no excuse for incompetence in the tasks of
life because they are all we are certain of and all we have reasonable
control over.

It makes little difference to the problems at hand whether aliens are
circulating in our atmosphere. Until they blow us out of the Solar
System, we have to live on this planet by this planet's rules. This
is one of our difficulties with Ambassador Merlin. We can only take
him at his word that he is a Being of Light, residing simultaneously
on Draconis and Venus as well as Earth. What bothers us is that he
makes a lousy ambassador. He does not grasp the human niceties like
regular bathing and respect for the privacy of others. Any member of
the diplomatic corps--we don't care from which planet--has the
obligation to understand and adapt to the protocols and sensitivities
of the culture in which he is serving. This is something we all have
to learn: While on Earth in human form we have to adapt to our
circumstances as they are. Nothing in the skies absolves us from doing
our best in the mortal realm.

Aliens are probably not going to rescue us from our own personal and
social messes. Don't get excited, for example, about driving a flying
saucer to work as a product of Lazar's and Jarod's reverse engineering
program. It might happen someday, but history has shown that every
technological advance has a human cost, sometimes equal or greater
than the benefit. Do the aliens have the technology to solve our
energy needs, wipe out human disease, let us live forever and give us
the means to roam the universe without bounds? If so, they should
probably keep these sciences to themselves because we humans are bound
to take these gifts and screw them up. Everything golden we touch
becomes "humanized"-- that is, beat-up and barely functional, used for
evil as well as good and so comfortable in our hands that we hardly
know it is there.

To us humans, the aliens are bound to be, well, alien, something far
outside our needs and experience. We do not know how to deal with
them, except maybe to exploit their technology to make better video
games and microwave ovens. Because they reside outside our laws, we
have no right to demand that the aliens reveal themselves or cooperate
in our earthly undertakings. It is not their role to educate us, save
us from ourselves or tell us what we are doing wrong--even if,
perchance, they created us. If there are any aliens not in human form
currently visiting this planet, it seems self-evident they are keeping
a low profile and are pursuing their own agenda with little interest
in our daily affairs. This is probably the way things should be.

Aliens are relevant and understandable to us only in how they reflect
on human issues. As the only known intelligent life on Earth we have
long lacked a mirror, some channel by which we can see ourselves in
perspective. This is perhaps what is most frightening to mankind
about the alien presence--not that the aliens are any threat in
themselves, but that they might reveal upsetting aspects of our own
psyche. They could expose us, for example, to our greatest human
fear: that we are indeed mortal and alone and have wasted most of our
lives pursuing futile goals. No one wants to hear that message, and
some people may be willing to annihilate the aliens to avoid it.


 ..... PSYCHOSPY'S GOALS .....

Regardless of what we learn in our lifetime, the truth will always be
Out There, and we know we will never have more than a sliver of it.
Psychospy is comfortable with this inevitable state of ignorance, and
we will continue to march ahead based on what little we know for sure.
 Apparently this attitude has lead to some confusion among our readers
as to what our goals are, as expressed by one of our email clients....

  "OK, that's it, I've had enough. I was getting pretty sick of all
  the UFO crap anyway, but your admission in GLDR 27 that you're only
  interested in entertaining stories and couldn't give a flying f**k
  about accuracy was the last straw. I'd be obliged if you'd forget I
  exist."

  -- Alien.nul


We assume he means, in his peculiar New Zealand dialect, "Would you
kindly unsubscribe me from the Desert Rat mailing list." Mr. Alien
may have misinterpreted our statements in DR#27. Nowhere did we say
we "couldn't give a flying f**k about accuracy." (We know so because
we did a text search for "flying f**k" and did not find it in any back
issue.) We do care about accuracy, we just define it differently--in
terms of internal and external consistency. We also tend to let a
story unfold on its own; we assume the inconsistencies will shake out
on their own if a story is carefully recorded and cataloged.

In a world of unknowns like ours, there is no such thing as absolute
accuracy. What we have instead are theories. Any quest for "truth"
is really just an effort to find the most consistent theory to explain
a phenomenon based on the data currently available. No theory is
permanent. Sooner or later, each will be replaced by another, but for
now we have to build the best theory we can with the data we have,
then conduct our lives accordingly.

In DR#27, we offered some skeptical theories to explain the stories
told by Lazar and Jarod 2. Perhaps Lazar invented his S-4 saucer tale
first, based on the aliens-eating-humans-at-Area-51 stories told by
John Lear; Jarod then concocted his own scenario based on Lazar's. We
would be happy to accept this theory as pragmatic truth if it is the
best way to explain the data. On the other hand, we are not going to
shy away from the more exotic theory--that they are both telling the
truth--simply because it is "too weird" and pushes us into
uncomfortable areas.

It is not our role to choose "true" or "false." We have simply laid
out some theories, and now we are collecting data to find out which is
best. This is the essence of the scientific method. Our personal
beliefs and public declarations are irrelevant because the data, when
collected and adequately organized, ought to eventually speak for
itself.

Other readers were more gentle in their criticism....

  "I tremendously respect the work that you are doing out there--
  takes a lotta guts to put up with the shit that folks in that neck
  of the woods have been feeding you. But, having said that, I have
  to balk a bit at what I've been seeing in the "Rat" lately. It
  seems to have really gone "way out" into Lazar-ish assumptions
  (AKA, Jarod) that are dubious, at best.

  "While I enjoy reading your rather dry humor and I get a good
  snicker out of you poking fun of people who desperately need it,
  all of this UFO/alien stuff seems to be occupying a larger and
  larger part of the "Rat". I find less and less useful information
  for the more serious "black aircraft" buff, which is what I would
  like to be reading from out there.

  "While you railed on your detractors and imitators (and rightly so)
  in that special way you have, it almost seems like what you're
  sending out is becoming more *like* them. I'd like to ask that you
  keep the "Rat" *unique*, and don't lower it to the point of
  becoming just another version of the National Enquirer."

  -- DM

This reader has also misinterpreted Psychospy's intentions. The truth
is, we have never been interested in airplanes: They're just trucks
with wings. To us, black budget aircraft seem little more than
billion dollar procurement programs for our country's aviation
museums, who need funny looking planes for static display. Psychospy
is a philosophical road warrior, and airplanes just don't challenge
the paradigms the way UFOs do.

In DR#20, we tried to come out of the closet, but perhaps we were too
limp-wristed about it. We should say it again, proudly: WE LIKE
UFOS! While many alien claims are human confabulations and most
others are simply untraceable, we think a few deserve our attention.
In spite of the problems of human perception that can certainly create
"flying saucers" where there are none, we believe there is a reality
hidden behind the noise that is at least richer than the flat and
joyless world of the confirmed skeptics. Just what the reality is we
won't declare. We proclaim only that UFOs are worthy of our time and
are far more educational, in human terms, than any piece of military
hardware.

Ufology seems to be marked by a complete lack of available physical
evidence. Glorious! There could be no better condition in which to
test the human animal. All of us can think logically in well-defined
circumstances, like solving math problems or reading a map. If you
take away the reference points, though, and let people choose their
own truth in a field where anything is possible, that's when you see
what humans are really made of. In ancient Africa, we threw spears at
the moon during an eclipse to chase away that rapist god--and it
always worked! Things today are not much different in, say, Lower
Rachel, where the primitives of our culture engage in all forms of
useless but satisfying ritual triggered by the claim of UFOs.

In the absence of physical evidence, the question is whether any
useful data can be derived from human testimony. If a person tells a
fantastic-sounding story but has no physical proof, does this mean the
story is false? Honesty in humans is never guaranteed, and human
memory and perception are notoriously inaccurate. If a hundred people
witness a car crash, there will be a hundred different interpretations
of the details. One thing is certain, though: The crash did happen;
everyone agrees on that.

If someone you trust tells you they saw the collision, you can feel
confident of the primal fact; although you have to be cautious about
the peripheral circumstances. The car crash took place, but was the
car tan or green? Was there a screech before the impact? Humans tend
to record the entire gestalt of the scene noticing only a few
remarkable details; the rest they fill in later by interpretation
based largely on their emotions and experience. Perception and memory
are such personal processes that a witness's testimony cannot be
separated from the person himself. You have to know him and the
particular rose-colored glasses he is looking through, but once you do
you may be able to rely on his reported perceptions as much as you
trust what you see with your own eyes.

At the Research Center, we are bombarded by fantastic reports and
theories, but most of them we do not know what do with. About alien
ambassadors, lights in the sky, mutilated cattle and abducted
citizens, Psychospy can only shrug and say, "It's an unsolved
mystery." In a universe of mysteries, we have to concentrate on the
few that match our skills and have enough connections to our known
reality to make them accessible. To draw us away from other pursuits,
a fantastic story must be internally and externally connected, elegant
in its form but not so pure and sterile as to steal its humanity.

And thus we move on to Hungarian....

 ----- THE HUNGARIAN CONNECTION -----

Did you ever wonder what language the aliens speak among themselves?
Our engineer friend Jarod 2 offered an answer at a small gathering of
UFO buffs a few weeks ago. "What is the most difficult language on
earth to learn?" Jarod asked his audience.

"Hungarian," said someone in the back.

Jarod was impressed. "Who said that? Right, Hungarian. They speak a
higher form of Hungarian." Jarod said this is what his supervisor had
told him, and his supervisor had never lied. Jarod then moved on to
other topics in his talk without us having a chance to grill him.

Oooh-la-la! This is something we never expected. The aliens can talk
to Zsa Zsa Gabor! But it's a HIGHER FORM of Hungarian, so maybe they
can talk to Eva Gabor now that she has passed on.

With all due respects, THAT'S THE STUPIDEST THING WE'VE EVER HEARD.
We can't think of any reason extraterrestrials arriving on earth would
step off the ship speaking Hungarian, but we can imagine the headline
in the "Weekly World News": "Zsa Zsa Consults with Space Aliens." If
the aliens were to speak an earth language you'd think it would be
English, the dominant tongue of the boron trade, or maybe Esperanto, a
highly rational language invented by academics and rejected by rest of
humanity.

As our readers will recall, these are the aliens who are advising the
U.S. government on how to reproduce their flying saucers. Jarod 1
(pronounced "JAY-rod") is one of those consultant-aliens. Jarod 2 is
the pseudonym of a retired human engineer who claims to have worked on
the design of earthbound flight simulators for the human-built
reproductions [DR#27]. Jarod 3 is a gray adolescent cat [DR#25], who
is doing just fine at our Rachel headquarters-- which reminds us, we
have to get her fixed pretty soon so we don't have a Jarod 4, 5 and 6.

Jarod 2 releases information to us in installments when he feels
comfortable about what he is saying and after he has supposedly
cleared it with his boss. At 70, Jarod's mind is still perfectly fit,
but most of his life has been concerned with technical projects, so he
is not the best public speaker. He is not very "P.C." in his
political opinions, asserting, for example, that the "benign
dictatorship" he worked for was not a bad thing and perhaps the whole
world will be run by the satellite government someday. (We shake our
head and say to ourselves, "No, Jarod, no, that's not an opinion for
the masses!") He tends to ramble sometimes into technical areas that
are fascinating only to engineers. As he speaks, he drops occasional
bombshells about the alien presence without appreciating their effect
on the audience and then moves on without further explanation.  When
you bring him back to the subject, though, there is always a detailed
story behind anything he says, and you can usually pin him down as to
whether the information is from something he experienced directly or
is based on his own speculation.

According to his story, Jarod worked in a highly compartmentalized
program in which he was told only what he needed to know to do his
job--mechanical design for various assemblies within the flying disc
simulator. Jarod and his group knew their place. If they did not
have a need to know something, they did not ask. If they went into
the simulator and a certain assembly was covered with a drop cloth,
they did not lift it up and look underneath. This was something
ingrained in them that they did not have to be told. There are
apparently many things Jarod is still not allowed to talk about, but
many other facts--obvious questions that any UFO buff would ask--he
simply never knew. Thus, he is now looking for answers as much as
anyone, and like the rest of us he is prone to speculation about the
unknown based on sometimes-tenuous pieces of data. Whenever Bob Lazar
spoke about his own alleged experiences at "Area S-4," he was always
careful to distinguish what he knew for sure from what he had gleaned
from secondhand sources and his own speculation. Jarod is somewhat
less clear in making this distinction, at least on first presentation,
and our challenge is to try to pin him down on the origin of his
claims.


 ..... REGARDING HUNGARIAN .....

In DR#24, we suggested that prudent investors consider boron as a
possible growth commodity, since it is one product that Jarod says the
aliens take from Earth. Now we suggest ambitious college students
consider the benefits of Hungarian. Take a few introductory classes,
and when the aliens reveal themselves you'll be way ahead of everyone
else. Unfortunately, Hungarian is a bitch to learn. One of the
people in our UFO group, upon hearing Jarod's claim, went out and
bought a Hungarian phrase book. This is definitely not a Romance
language--that is, based on Latin, from which over half our English
words come. For us, Hungarian has few familiar root words, and the
order of syntax is often the reverse of our conventions. For example,
modifiers usually follow the noun instead of preceding it: "house my"
instead of "my house." Hungarian is related to Finnish, Mongolian and
maybe Japanese. Psychospy has long been amused by linguistics, and
the distribution of this language family has always struck us as
peculiar. If you learn French, German and Russian, you can stumble by
in most other languages of Europe--except Hungarian and Finnish, which
seem to have come from Someplace Else.

Hungarian conspiracies filled our head as we dropped in on Jarod 2 to
have him set us straight. "That's just the way it is," he said with
some annoyance. He emphasized that the aliens speak not Hungarian,
but a higher form of Hungarian. We asked him why the aliens needed to
speak any language at all if they can communicate telepathically. We
reminded him of his previous statement, "When they speak to you, you
hear it in your own voice."

Jarod confirmed that, yes, you do hear the aliens in your own voice,
but he was more specific this time. Sound apparently does comes out
of the alien's mouth, and you hear it with your own ears. Jarod knows
this to be true because an alien had spoken to him in response to some
routine technical question. This surprised us, because we had already
reported in DR#24 that Jarod 2 had never communicated with his
namesake Jarod 1. This is essentially correct, J-2 said, because no
substantial communication took place, just a couple of words in
response to a question. J-2 was always with a group of his colleagues
when he encountered the alien, and the meeting was always in response
to a specific technical problem. The alien who spoke to him was
probably Jarod 1, but it could have also been one of his Space
Brothers because J-2 did not have enough experience to tell the aliens
apart.

It seems that these aliens are regular Rich Littles who can mimic any
human voice, and they use this ability as a mode of communication in
itself. Imagine the problems of an impassive looking gray trying to
express himself in a group of humans. The alien is already wearing
human clothing to put the audience at ease, but without the familiar
facial expressions how do the earthlings know which member of the
group he is talking to? Elementary! The problem is solved by the
alien speaking in the voice of the person he is addressing.

J-2 thinks that telepathy plays a role in alien communication, but he
says he has no direct evidence. He says that when you ask an alien a
question, they respond immediately, often before you finish speaking,
but J-2 concedes that this could be a sign only of a quick-witted
alien, not a telepathic one. J-2 thinks the aliens can read
everything about a person just by being in the same room with them,
but he does not have enough experience to know if this happened in his
case. J-2 says that he saw an alien only rarely, never for more than
five or ten minutes and not more than a half-dozen times over the
course of his career. These meetings were strictly business, with no
idle chat unrelated to the technical problem at hand.

J-2 remarks that, although the aliens respond in English in the voice
of the person being addressed, they seem to "think backwards." By
this he means that their syntax is reversed. For example, one of the
few questions J-2 asked the alien is when something would be ready.
The alien's immediate reply in J-2's voice was, "Two about." This
confused J-2 at the time, until he realized the alien meant, "About
two o'clock." In other words, as we interpret it now, this alien
could be speaking perfectly pronounced English words arranged in
Hungarian syntax.

J-2 knows the aliens speak a higher form of Hungarian only because his
supervisor told him so. In the course of his work, Jarod came upon a
document written in a language he did not recognize. It was printed
in our roman alphabet and was part of a technical specification.
Jarod asked his supervisor about it, and the supervisor called the
rest of the design group together to explain. This language was a
higher form of Hungarian, he said, transcribed from the speech of an
alien by one of the staff linguists. That the aliens should speak
Hungarian struck Jarod as amusing at the time, and that's why he
remembered it.

Jarod says that there were a lot of linguists in the project,
presumably among the best in their field, but they were still trying
to decipher this higher form of Hungarian. The science of verbal
languages was apparently a key skill in understanding the aliens, but
maybe it wasn't the only skill. We recall from Jarod's account in
DR#24 that a linguist was part of the original interface team that
studied the live aliens retrieved in the Arizona crash, but it wasn't
the linguist who first made contact; it was the young
bioastrophysicist, who went on to lead the technical side of the
program.

Learning a foreign language is more than just translating one word
into another. You have to understand the common experience of the
people who created that language--the Hungarians, as it were. For
example, the Desert Rat would probably be a strange and confusing
document to any foreign linguist who does not have a basic
understanding of American culture, since Psychospy has muddied up the
language with many metaphors and references that do not appear in your
Funk and Wagnall's. "Funk and Wagnall's," in fact, is one of those
terms. With all the idioms now in use, no alien is going to fully
comprehend our modern English language--and certainly not our stand-up
comics--unless they live in our society and are watching the O.J.
trial.

The same applies in the other direction. Even if the aliens speak
Hungarian, the words will be redefined by their own experience, which
undoubtedly is very different from ours. Although it may start as the
language of Zsa Zsa, it will soon become a different form of Hungarian
filled with complex nuances and references to other worlds that an
earthbound linguist will always be guessing at.

 ..... HYPOTHESES .....

But what is to account for the aliens choosing Hungarian at all? Do
these gray aliens have a fondness for goulash or rotund Bolshevik
women in polka dots? Perhaps their first encounter with earthlings
happened in Hungary, and they assumed this language was what most
humans spoke. We remember a similar scenario in a movie, "Earth Girls
Are Easy," about three lustful male aliens who crash land in a
swimming pool in the San Fernando Valley. They adopt "Valley Girl"
talk, accept the local culture as their own and go cruising for babes.

We have an alternative theory, however. Remember that this is a
thrice-told tale. Someone told the supervisor, the supervisor told
Jarod, and Jarod told us. This is enough steps for many of the
details of the message to be lost or garbled, even if the gist is
accurate. The original conclusion of the staff linguists might have
been that the language of the aliens was LIKE Hungarian. Hungarian is
a member of the Ural-Altaic language group. Members of this family
follow certain rules of syntax independent of the words themselves.
If we allow that life could evolve on a distant planet to walk on two
feet in bodies functionally similar to ours, then we would also expect
this race to develop spoken languages. It seems unlikely that any of
their specific words would match ours, but their syntax could. Nouns,
verbs, adjectives and adverbs are probably primal elements of any oral
language anywhere in the universe, and there are only a limited number
of ways to put these things together.

A human linguist attempting to analyze an alien language will try to
correlate it with things he already knows. He could look at the word
order and say, "I know this. It is structured like Hungarian." The
fact that Jarod saw the language printed in our roman alphabet does
not mean it is a human language; it means only that the linguists have
found a way to transcribe the sounds uttered by the aliens into
character codes. To J-2, who knew no foreign language, the words were
meaningless, and they might have also been meaningless to an earthly
Hungarian, but a linguist specializing in the structure of languages
might not be interested in meaning. He would see only a pattern in
the order of words that tells him how to classify that language.
"This is a higher form of Hungarian," he might say, with technical
accuracy. Only non-linguists might interpret this to mean the aliens
can talk with Zsa-Zsa, which isn't true. Once you know the structure
resembles Hungarian, you still need an army of linguists and others
studying the alien culture to understand the meaning of individual
words and idioms.

That is one theory. There could be others. Maybe some historical
fluke indeed created a special connection to Hungary which lead the
aliens to learn this human language first. It may not have been Zsa
Zsa the aliens wanted to kiss up to but black world figurehead Edward
Teller, who Bob Lazar suggests may have helped him get his job at Area
S-4. Our colleague M.F. drew our attention to this passage in
"Teller's War," a book profiling the physicist and his Star Wars
projects [available for sale from us]:

  "Budapest at the turn of the century had a thriving Jewish
community and a series of celebrated schools that produced no less
than seven of the twentieth century's great scientists. In order of
birth, they were Theodor von Karman, George de Hevesy, Micheal
Polanyi, Leo Szilard, Eugene P. Wigner, John von Neumann and Edward
Teller. The city pulsated intellectually, rich in commerce,
architecture and opera. As Richard Rhodes has noted, the first subway
system on the European continent was dug, not in Paris or Berlin, but
in Budapest.

  "The Hungarian scientists were to have a remarkable impact on
science in the United States and were universally seen as visionaries.
 Szilard, Wigner and Teller played important roles in the push for the
atom bomb. Von Neumann was a mathematical genius who helped build
giant computers used for H-bomb calculations. Fermi, the Italian
physicist, once mused over the number of stars in the universe and its
age, saying that if aliens existed they should already have visited
earth. Indeed, Szilard joked, "They call themselves Hungarians."
Teller also delighted in this notion, applying it to himself with
relish. Late in life, after getting to know someone he liked, he
would sometimes give the person permission to call him "E.T.," after
the movie about a friendly extraterrestrial who visits Earth."

J-2 himself has no explanation for the alien use of Higher Hungarian,
but he reminds us about the Native American Code Talkers of World War
II who spoke a "higher form of Navajo" as a radio code that was never
broken by the Axis. Did the aliens deliberately choose a difficult
human language to talk to Teller and his cronies and no one else? As
usual, this question remains an Unsolved Mystery, but one that
Psychospy can live with. We expect reality to have its surreal
moments. First Nixon, then boron, and now we have aliens conferring
with Zsa Zsa. What could be more real?

Most earthlings have no difficulty accepting the theoretical
possibility of alien life. Psychospy will personally strangle the
next moron who tells us, "With all those million, million stars in a
million, million galaxies, I have to believe there is intelligent life
out there somewhere." It is only when it gets down to specifics that
humans become uncomfortable. The gray aliens, like Jarod 1, could not
possibly be real, some say, because they look too much like us. You
want they should look like crabs? In that case, people would say the
aliens look too much like their B-movie counterparts. Lifeforms that
evolved on separate planets are likely to be very different in detail
but not necessarily in functional form. Just as certain plants in the
African and Mexican deserts have evolved separately to look alike, a
body with two legs, two arms and four-to-six fingers per hand may be
the norm for intelligent life throughout the universe. Likewise, any
such life might also be expected to develop a system of crude
communication by sounds emitted through the breathing orifice. Maybe
they also hiccup, cough and belch. This is not the sort of thing we
expect of angels or the idealized aliens of our imagination, but real
lifeforms cannot live up to those expectations. When we meet them,
they will be as earthy, smelly, specific and repulsive as we are.


 ----- MORE DETAILS FROM JAROD -----

ALIEN HYGIENE

And speaking of smelly and repulsive, J-2 has now answered a question
for us that we never asked: How do the aliens keep clean? They take
a "bug bath." Or more precisely, a bug shower. J-2 has seen the
apparatus in a work area at Facility X. It is basically a shower
stall where microbes are sprayed onto the alien's skin. As J-2
explains it, "the good bacteria eat the bad bacteria." Underneath the
shower chamber was a reservoir that held the good bacteria--apparently
in a liquid medium--and a system of piping brought it up to the
chamber to spray on the alien. As the residue flowed out the bottom
it passed through some kind of filtering system that separated the
good bacteria from the bad bacteria, and the good bacteria passed back
into the tank.

J-2 never saw the apparatus in use. (We do not know how personally
the aliens take their bathing.) He knew it was an alien shower only
because he was told so. He concedes it is possible that the shower
also performed a nutritional function. In the public UFO literature,
it is often stated that the gray aliens have no alimentary system, so
they have to absorb nutrients through their skin.

Jarod says he has never seen an alien eat but has seen one drink. It
was while an alien was sitting at a conference table during a
technical briefing. He brought a cup to his lips and appeared to
drink from it. J-2 does not know what the liquid was in the cup, but
he assumes it was water.


DOCUMENT SECURITY

While discussing with J-2 the Higher Hungarian he saw in writing, we
asked him about documents in general. Although the mechanical design
team had the finest earthly computers at their disposal, the design of
any complex device generates a lot of paper: drawings, technical
specifications, evaluations. Were these documents stamped "Top
Secret" or "Classified"? Jarod says they were not. There was nothing
on the document to identify its source or classification level except
an alphanumeric code. Someone who stumbled across the document by
chance would probably not know what it was.

Since personal security was extremely thorough and intrusive and the
rules of secrecy had become a way of life, Jarod and his colleagues
were not tempted to smuggle any documents out of the design room. At
night the documents were locked up in a vault. If someone cleaned the
office, it must have been at night, because Jarod never saw them.


ALIEN EYES

Jarod reports that the covering of the alien eye becomes darker or
lighter depending on the ambient light, like photosensitive
sunglasses. In bright light, the lens appears black and opaque. In
subdued lighting, it becomes clear, and you can see the structure of
the eye underneath. In that case, alien eyes appear not much
different than ours, although bigger. J-2 does not know if the
photosensitive covering is a natural part of the eye or some sort of
contact lens, but he says he has never seen an alien blink.


NERVA CORRECTION

In DR#27, we reported that Jarod 2 and his son, a lab technician,
happened to both work at the Nevada Test Site in the late 1970s, when
J-2 was temporarily assigned to the NERVA nuclear rocket program. The
assignment was incorrect, since NERVA had been canceled in Feb. 1972
(at a total cost of $1.4 billion according to DOE public affairs).
This was our error, not Jarod's, as we did not clear this portion of
the text with him before publication. Although Jarod did work for
NERVA prior to its demise, he was obviously not working on it when his
son was at the Test Site. The two met occasionally for lunch in
Mercury but did not discuss work. What was Jarod doing there?
"Another project" is all he'll say. [Thanks to
fishhook.nul for the hint.]







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 25

                      The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part IV

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:49:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:49:26 -0400
Subject: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part IV




For The Record

The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part IV

From Glenn Campbell's Groom Lake Desert Rat

ebk

-----

THE GROOM LAKE DESERT RAT.  An On-Line Newsletter.
Issue #29. August 18, 1995.
 -----> "The Naked Truth from Open Sources." <-----
AREA 51/NELLIS RANGE/TTR/NTS/S-4?/WEIRD STUFF/DESERT LORE
Direct from Las Vegas, the Center of Human Civilization.
Written, published, copyrighted and totally disavowed by
psychospy.nul See bottom for subscription/copyright info.

In this issue...
   FUN WITH FOLKLORE
   CAMPBELL CONFESSES TO GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT
   EXECUTIVE CORRESPONDENCE?
   PURSUING THE HOLOGRAM
   OUR READERS RESPOND
   INTEL BITTIES


 ----- FUN WITH FOLKLORE -----

EXPLORING THE HUNGARIAN CONNECTION

In DR#28, we reported the matter-of-fact claim of our ex-
government source "Jarod 2" that the aliens he knows speak a
"higher form of Hungarian." J-2 has no explanation for why
extraterrestrials would speak such an obscure earth tongue; he
can only report that this is what his supervisor told him when
he asked about some foreign-looking text on a technical
specification. This may seem a ridiculous claim from a dubious
source, but Hungarian turns out to be more interesting than it
seems. Aside from being the language of Zsa Zsa--the Gabor on
"Hollywood Squares" known for collecting husbands--and her
recently deceased and oft-confused sister Eva--the one who
played opposite the pig in "Green Acres"--Hungarian happens to
be the native tongue of Dr. Edward Teller, the "father of the
hydrogen bomb" and chief architect of Reagan's Star Wars
program.

The origins of the Hungarian language remain mysterious. It is
one of only two significant languages in Europe that are
unrelated to any of their neighbors. Hungarian and Finnish
appear to be related to each other but neither are derived from
the ancient Proto-Indo-European (PIE) tongue that is assumed to
be the source of all other modern European languages. "Where did
Hungarian come from?" is a question long asked by linguistic
scholars, and now that Hungary is free of Soviet rule
nationalistic citizens are also asking, "Where did WE come
from?" As reported in a "Washington Post" article on Feb. 6,
Hungarians are looking not to the stars but to the Xinjiang
Province of China thousands of miles to the east [thanks to RP
for the lead]. In graves there dating from the 9th and 10th
centuries, enquiring Hungarians have found archeological objects
similar to those unearthed back home. One theory says that the
Hungarian ancestors left China no later than the 5th century
A.D. and migrated gradually westward across the Asian steppes
until arriving in Europe around the year 896. Magyars, as they
knew themselves, were the scourge of Europe for a time, raping
and pillaging wherever they went in a role later played by the
British Empire.

The linguistic and archeological record is ambiguous enough to
allow other theories of Hungarian origins. One is recorded in
"The Curve of Binding Energy," a profile of a dissident atomic
physicist by John McPhee...

 "Not all Los Alamos theories could be tested. Long popular
within the Theoretical Division was, for example, a theory that
the people of Hungary are Martians. The reasoning went like
this: The Martians left their own planet several aeons ago and
came to Earth; they landed in what is now Hungary; the tribes of
Europe were so primitive and barbarian that it was necessary for
the Martians to conceal their evolutionary difference or be
hacked to pieces. Through the years, the concealment had on the
whole been successful, but the Martians had three
characteristics too strong to hide: their wanderlust, which
found its outlet in the Hungarian gypsy; their language
(Hungarian is not related to any of the languages spoken in
surrounding countries); and their unearthly intelligence. One
had only to look around to see the evidence: Teller, Wigner,
Szilard, von Neumann--Hungarians all. Szilard had been among the
first to suggest that fission could be used to make a bomb. Von
Neumann had developed the digital computer. Teller--moody,
tireless, and given to fits of laughter, bursts of anger--worked
long hours and was impatient with what he felt to be the
excessively slow advancement of Project Panda, as the hydrogen-
bomb development was known. Kindly to juniors, he had done much
to encourage Ted Taylor in his work. His impatience with his
peers, however, eventually caused him to leave Los Alamos and
establish a rival laboratory at Livermore in California. Teller
had a thick Martian accent. He also had a sense of humor that
could penetrate bone. Dark-haired, heavy-browed, he limped
pronouncedly. In Europe, one of his feet had been mangled by a
streetcar."

McPhee is apparently using the Martian claim only as a
transition, but it is clear there is some kind of folklore
behind it. It seems to bear some relation to the anecdote told
in "Teller's War" [quoted in DR#28] that Hungarians are aliens.
SteeDee.nul, who was the first to refer us to the McPhee
quote, comments:

  "The reason that 'aliens' speak Hungarian is that Hungarians
ARE aliens. It is that simple. It appears that good-natured
office ribbing among some of the brightest theoreticians working
at Los Alamos has been twisted into fabricated 'evidence'
supporting groundless claims of alien interaction with humans."

This is not necessarily true. The Martian story is certainly
folklore, but folklore is neither true nor false in itself; it
is simply the way people tell verbal stories to each other. To
call a story "folklore" does not mean it is a fabrication: In
most cases people are telling the story honestly as they have
interpreted it, but their perception, memory and sense of human
inevitably idealizes and simplifies the facts. Any time a
remembered narrative is re-told by a human, it becomes
distorted, but this does not mean the story is worthless. There
is data in folklore, maybe not the data the speaker had
intended, but usually some ancient basis in a worldly event.

If you believe in Jesus--at least that the man existed on earth-
- you are believing in folklore, because the story of his (or
His) life was passed down as an oral tradition for many years
before being written down. If you believe the oft-told tale of
how your mother first met your father, you are also believing in
folklore: You can be darn sure they have distorted a thing or
two--depending perhaps on whether they are still married--but
that does not mean the described events never took place. Every
verbal story, in the absence of a reliable physical record, is
subject to all the pressures that turn reality into myth, but
there is usually some "proto-story" behind it that derived from
a direct observation in the past.

Until unambiguous physical evidence presents itself,
understanding the processes of folklore may be the key to
finding the truth about UFOs. Confirmed skeptics say UFOs are
solely the product of accumulated folklore, but if some UFOs
were real and no reliable physical record was available, human
reports of them would probably become distorted to the point
where they would soon seem as implausible as any created
fiction. Folklore takes a story and "humanizes" it--to bring it
closer to the simplified concepts the speaker is most
comfortable with. Folklore follows Darwinian rules of mutation,
and immaculate conceptions are rare. Each story evolves over
time in a recognizable series of steps, and by understanding
these changes and the pressures that create them, we can
understand what about the final story might reflect on an
objective truth.

 ..... CHARACTERISTICS OF FOLKLORE .....

Folklore, like electromagnetic radiation, may seem intangible at
times, but it propagates according to recognizable rules. Most
of these rules are self-evident. They apply to any verbal story
when there is no fixed record to compare it to.

1) The more people a story passes through, the more distorted it
becomes. The least distortion is likely when only a single
person has told the tale.

2) Most speakers convey the "truth" as they understand it.
Distortion comes about when a speaker adds details which he
feels are implied, removes details which he feels are irrelevant
or corrects uncomfortable details which he feels must be wrong.
This editing process is not necessarily conscious.

3) Some speakers are more reliable than others. The level and
kind of distortion one person generates depends upon that
individual's personality, which is stable across a wide variety
of circumstances. Although one specific story, like a UFO claim,
may be beyond confirmation, you can determine a person's general
reliability by seeing how disciplined they are in other fields
and with other stories.

4) A person tends to distort a story to support his existing
world view and emotional needs. A person tends to recall and
recount only what he wants to believe. By understanding this
bias, which exhibits itself in everything the person does, the
listener can subtract it out of the received story. The bias may
render some of the story unreliable, but not necessarily all of
it.

5) Each telling of the tale tends to turn a complex and
confusing reality into a simplified and stereotyped shorthand
that is easier for the speaker to understand and remember and
that makes him feel more comfortable about himself.

6) A story passing through many people tends to evolve over time
into an idealized form which most people in this social group
feel comfortable with and can easily remember. Once the story
reaches this stage, it stabilizes and does not change
significantly until the society changes. Examples are the stable
mythologies passed down from generation to generation in
aboriginal cultures: These stories explain why the sun rises and
storms come and help teach young people the ways of the tribe.

7) When the same story is told to two or more people each of
whom convey it to others, it may split into separate streams
that begin to evolve independently. Although each fork of the
story may turn into something quite different depending on the
needs of the people who passed it on, there will be certain
common features in both streams which reflect the state of the
story before the split.

8) Folklore often allows feelings to be expressed which could
not otherwise be spoken. This is one reason rumors are spread
and stories are told at all.

These rules apply almost as well to deliberate lies as they do
to unintentional distortion. A lie is merely "extreme folklore"
which is distorted more than usual when it passes through a
particular person. In general, lying is difficult, risky and
emotionally costly, so most people tend to avoid it, at least
where there is not a strong incentive. Those who do lie tend to
lie often (Rule #3), a style which is usually easy to detect if
you spend enough time with the person. Liars also work with the
material at their disposal; every lie has a source, usually
lifted from another story the liar has heard elsewhere. The rest
of the population tells what they believe is the truth; they
merely "simplify" the story to make it more comfortable to tell.

Jokes, too, obey the rules of folklore. Although contrived on
the surface, they serve an emotional need which is related to
current social and personal environment. Verbal jokes tend to be
"topical," that is, related to subjects which are on people's
minds. To be seen as funny and be retold repeatedly, a joke must
relieve some kind of emotional tension. No matter how apparently
ridiculous the tale may be, it tells you something about the
person who recounts it. Why, among all the jokes he has heard,
is the speaker choosing to tell this one? It must bear some
relevance to the interests and conflicts in his own life and in
the social environment in which he is engaged.

The rules of folklore can apply to almost any information
exchanged verbally, including the evolution of languages
themselves. Over generations, languages change to serve
emotional and social needs and evolve over time to a stable
state where they are easiest to process and remember. When a
language has split into two, as with Hungarian and Finnish
perhaps, the common features between them can reveal the
ancestral state of the language before the split. We know, for
example, that the other languages of Europe evolved from a
common PIE ancestor because of the similarities in these
languages: For example, a similar word for "snow"--schnee, sno,
snieg, snih, snyek, snijeg in various languages--is common
throughout Europe but not in Asian languages, and the existence
of such a word in the original PIE language suggests that the
people who spoke it did not reside in a tropical climate. From
this kind of reconstructed evidence, we can deduce something
about where a language came from and how it evolved.

An important point about folklore or historical linguistics is
that the current verbal record can lead us to fairly reliable
conclusions about events in the past that we have never seen.
The fact that no one has spoken PIE in several millennia and
that it has been distorted over time by countless human
exchanges does not mean that the language never existed. As with
many other sciences in which we are observing a phenomena only
indirectly, we can still make logical conclusions about this
invisible "ghost" that are almost are reliable as our own direct
experience. For example, the atomic bomb was invented based
solely on such indirect evidence--since no one has seen an atom-
-but it worked nonetheless.

Even from sources as unreliable as the Little A'Le'Inn or as
unconfirmable as Lazar or Jarod 2, there is data in the story,
and it can be filtered out by logical deduction. If Jarod made
up his simulator story then it still had to come from somewhere.
It may be his own stew, but the ingredients had to be drawn from
the existing folklore to make the story agree with Lazar's and
the longstanding tales of saucer crashes and government cover-
ups in the UFO literature. Telling the truth is easy--you just
do it-- but creating a lie and making it consistent with the
stories already told is a daunting task. If the story is false,
sooner or later all the complex and interacting threads will be
too great for any liar to reconcile, and obvious flaws will
begin to show that no amount of creative theorizing can erase.
The Little A'Le'Inn is no challenge to researchers because
stories there are one dimensional and are easily traced. Jarod
and Lazar are more of a problem; the richness of their stories
is impressive, and calling the claims "true" or "false" does not
solve the mystery of where they came from.

 ..... BACK TO THE HUNGARIANS .....

In addition to Jarod's claims that the aliens speak "a higher
form of Hungarian," we have three sources that suggest, however
facetiously, that the Hungarians themselves are aliens. One is
"The Curve of Binding Energy" quote above. Another is the quote
from "Teller's War" in DR#28...

  "Fermi, the Italian physicist, once mused over the number of
stars in the universe and its age, saying that if aliens existed
they should already have visited earth. Indeed, Szilard joked,
"They call themselves Hungarians." Teller also delighted in this
notion, applying it to himself with relish."

A third source for this story is a Hungary information page at
the Technical University of Budapest [on WWW], which credits
Fermi alone for the claim.

  "Do extra-terrestrial beings exist? - the Nobel Prize winning
Italian physicist, Enrico Fermi, was once asked by his disciples
in California. Of course, Fermi answered - they are already here
among us, they are called Hungarians...

  "You are welcome here, in the homeland of the extra-
terrestrial beings. Why did Fermi think this about us? Because
Hollywood's dream factories were partly built by Hungarian
producers, directors, writers and cameramen? Or because - as the
saying goes - Hungarians were created by God to sit on
horseback? Perhaps because Bela Bartok's music in his own time
was considered extra- terrestrial by many? Or because of the
Hungarian language, which does not resemble any world language
and sounds so strange?

  "So, who are these Hungarians? It is not (yet) known quite
precisely. It seems certain they arrived somewhere from Asia.
Their nearest kinship is with distant "small" peoples. With
regard to Hungary's location, world languages generally define
it as Eastern Europe. In fact, our country is situated in the
centre of the continent, in Central Europe. In its eastern part,
this is the Carpathian Basin, where one thousand years ago
visitors already found a Hungarian state."

Although these Hungarians-are-aliens stories do not match
exactly, it is reasonable to assume that they derived from the
same source- -a single proto-story at Los Alamos which we have
never heard directly but that must have existed for these three
stories to be so similar. It seems probable that Jarod's
Hungarian claim is also related in some way, perhaps branching
off of the same proto- story. What was this original proto-story
and why was it told? Who first equated Hungarians with aliens?
Was it Fermi, Szilard or someone before them? What was the date
of first telling? Was it before or after the Second World War?
Was it after 1953?

Without knowing the personalities of the people circulating the
story, including the authors who reported it, it is hard for us
to subtract out their emotional biases. All we know is that
somebody first told this story for some reason, and for some
reason it was remembered by physicists at Los Alamos and retold
enough times that it became part of the stable folklore, to be
repeated to the authors many years later. Was it, as SteeDee
suggests, just good- natured ribbing around the water cooler? If
so, why was this particular story told repeatedly and not
others? What emotional need did it serve in the speakers?

If we understand SteeDee's theory correctly, the first
Hungarians- are-aliens story arose from some minor human
incident. The Hungarians may have stood out from the rest of the
staff at Los Alamos, perhaps by maintaining their own cliques
and speaking their own indecipherable tongue, and this made the
English speakers uncomfortable. The Hungarians were like aliens
to the rest, and since there were many reports of "flying
saucers" in the popular press in the 50s and late 40s, the
"Martian" label was a convenient way to sublimate the social
tensions. To be called extraterrestrials, in a jocular, rib-
poking way, might have helped reduce this social friction both
inside and outside the Hungarian group. If there was a problem
with communication, the recurring alien joke would provide a
means to make light of it, thereby expressing frustrations that
could not otherwise be spoken.

This is a respectable theory, and it could be true, but it is
not the only one possible.

Suppose that things happened as Jarod said in DR#24. Sometime in
the late 40s or early 50s, one of the most important contacts in
history was made--between real extraterrestrials and a small
segment the US government. Los Alamos, as our nation's premier
think tank, would have been at the center of it. A decision was
made, for whatever social or national security reasons, that the
facts must be kept from the public, and a lid of absolute
secrecy was imposed on the project. The participants knew their
duty and obeyed the rules--perhaps with some firm enforcement--
but keeping completely quiet about such incredible knowledge
must have taken an emotional toll. The participants were
forbidden to speak in public about the truth of the project, but
that did not mean they could not tell jokes. A patently
ridiculous folklore about Martians, inspired by the truth but
far enough from it to not violate security oaths, might have
been a way for participants to express themselves and reinforce
camaraderie in public without getting in trouble. Emotional
tensions could be released without jeopardizing any secrets.

We see the same sort of sublimation in Jarod 2, who often
exchanges inside jokes regarding aliens with his former co-
workers. (Or at least he seems to, since we have never met the
co-workers.) Some of his jokes, which he has shown to us in
writing, we find nearly indecipherable because they contain many
long acronyms that apparently have meaning only to those on the
inside. Jarod 2 is also an accomplished illustrator who produces
pictures of imaginary aliens for certain products he quietly
sells at UFO gatherings. These are basically standard Grays, but
shown in situations where real Grays would never be found, like
piloting a human airplane or dressed in the regal costume of a
lord or lady. We know his pricing structure and see that he
isn't making any significant money on these projects, yet he
devotes a lot of time to them. He is capable of drawing real
aliens that he has seen himself, because he has shown us an
elegant sketch of Jarod 1, sitting at a conference table as J-2
says he personally saw him. Why, then, does he waste his time
drawing imaginary aliens, too?

These drawings are different from his simulator accounts. There
is no rich history behind these aliens, and Jarod readily admits
they are imaginary. What is most interesting to us is that his
former co-workers seem to love these fake aliens and according
to J-2 are among his best customers for these products. The way
we account for such odd tastes is this: Even if these workers
cannot possess real photos of real aliens, no security
regulation can prevent them from displaying a ridiculous photo
of an alien that could not possibly be real but that has a
personal connection for them. Thus their feelings can be
expresses in the open, perhaps of fondness or nostalgia, without
violating any of the oppressive rules they must observe.

Bob Lazar recounts a similar curiosity [in a transcript on WWW]:
He says that on the wall of the "S-4" laboratory where he worked
was a commercial-type poster with a photo of a saucer in flight
and the inscription, "THEY'RE HERE!" This is the kind of odd
human detail that makes the Lazar story strike us as more real,
precisely because it seems out of place. Such a poster could
serve no government need, and including it in the story does not
advance the needs of a liar either. No such detail would appear
in a secret base created by Hollywood or in the fevered
imaginations of a conspiracy buff; those sources would give us
only stainless steel walls and workers marching like automatons.
We could imagine that the poster was created not by the
government, but by a worker like J-2 in his spare time. Think of
what it would be like to work for 30 years in the firmly
controlled environment that Jarod describes, barred from talking
in public about a highly emotional situation. Although he says
he was comfortable with his work, Jarod sometimes refers to it
as his "prison," as though he had only recently been released.
People need outlets, ways to say what they are forbidden to say,
and these inside jokes might provide some emotional release.

 ..... AVENUES OF INVESTIGATION .....

As we have tried to say before (and been cruelly flamed every
time), Psychospy's immediate aim is not to prove the Jarod story
true or false. We seek first to understand the story, and
building up a database of connections and origins should
eventually make the truth obvious. Why should this approach be
so offensive? Some Star Trek, Star Wars and X-Files fans pursue
similar obsessions in their own virtual worlds, striving to
understand warp drives and the intricacies of spoken Klingon
without making demands that the story be real. We play a similar
game, but the possibility, however remote, that the result might
not be virtual gives it an extra edge. Movies and TV shows are
always limited by the imagination and intellect of their
creators. They may entertain for a while, but sooner or later
the inconsistencies and repeated plot become so obvious that it
isn't much fun anymore. UFOs, in our experience, are much more
profound. Like the Energizer bunny, they keep going and going,
banging their stupid little drum through almost every meaningful
landscape of human philosophy.

While we have no means at present to interrogate aliens or read
their minds, we can explore any connections that fall on earth.
Hungarian, Teller and the U.S. Government are human
manifestations that are within our means to explore. Given
enough time and effort, we can probably narrow down the origins
of the Hungarians- are-aliens stories at Los Alamos and
determine the general timeframe and social environment in which
they started. If we believe Jarod, then the proto-story behind
all these tales was the discovery by a Los Alamos team that the
aliens spoke "a higher form of Hungarian"--whatever that means.
The jokes, then, would have to emerge after this date. If it
could be shown that they came before, then the cause-effect
connection becomes much more awkward: It would suggest the
unlikely scenario that there was not one Hungarian proto-story
but two, like two nearly identical languages appearing in
different places on earth without a common ancestor.

Jarod indicates in his statement in DR#24 that significant
government contact with live aliens began with a suspiciously
gentle saucer "crash" in Arizona. Although we cannot be certain
it is the same, Raymond Fowler's Nevada Test Site witness "Fritz
Warner" [DR#28] claims he took part in a crash recovery,
possibly near Kingman, on May 21, 1953. By then, the saucer
hysteria in the public press had already been going strong for
over five years, since the Kenneth Arnold sighting on June 24,
1947. Under the skeptical scenario, the Hungarians-are-Martians
joke would have had plenty of time to establish itself before
1953. Establishing, by radio-carbon dating or whatever, that the
proto- story emerged earlier, would give satisfaction to Phil
Klass and his evil skeptic minions, while a later date would
prove nothing but still keep the door open for those who want to
believe.

That said, we have no inclination at present to personally pound
the pavement to dig up this information. Life is short and we
have easier avenues to pursue. Nonetheless, we ask any readers
who are closer to this kind of information to please pass it on
to us.

 ----- EXECUTIVE CORRESPONDENCE? -----

Whilst cruising the conspiracy ghetto on the World Wide Web, we
stumbled upon this interesting bittie in a pile of
Illuminati/New World Order rubbish. [Source document on WWW.]
The X's apparently represent parts blacked out on the original
paper document.

<quote>

EXECUTIVE CORRESPONDENCE - EXECUTIVE BRIEFING SUBJECT: PROJECT
AQUARIUS (TS) - ATTENTION THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED BY MJ-12.
MJ-12 IS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS SUBJECT MATTER. DOCUMENT
CONTROL: ECN 0001 CLASSIFIED BY: MJ12 XXXXXX DECLASSIFY ON:
EXEMPT TOP SECRET PROJECT AQUARIUS

(TS/ORCON) (PROWORD): XXXXXX Contains 16 volumes of documented
information collected from the beginning of the United States'
Investigation of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) and
Identified Alien Crafts (IAC). The Project was originally
established in 1953, by order of President Eisenhower, under
control of XXXXXX and MJ12. In 1960, the Project's name was
changed from Project XXXXXX to Project Aquarius. The Project was
funded by XXXXXX confidential funds (non-appropriated). The
Project XXX<for 1 full line>XXX Dec 1969 after Project Blue Book
was closed. The purpose of Project Aquarius was to collect all
scientific, technological, medical and intelligence information
from UFO/IAC sightings and contacts with alien life forms. This
orderly file of collected information has been used to advance
the United States' Space Program.

(TS/ORCON) The preceding briefing is an historical account of
the United States Government's investigation of Aerial
Phenomena, Recovered Alien Aircraft, and contacts with
extraterrestrial Life Forms.

2. (TS/ORCON) PROJECT SIGMA: (PROWORD): AQUARIUS. Originally
established as part of Project XXXXXX in 1954. Became a separate
project in 1976. It's mission was to establish communication
with Aliens. This Project met with positive success (sic) when
in 1959, the United States established primitive communications
with the Aliens. On April 25, 1964, a USAF intelligence officer
met two aliens at a pre-arranged location in the desert in New
Mexico. The contact lasted for approximately three hours.
XXX<for over half a line>XXX the Air Force officer managed to
exchange basic information with the two Aliens (Atch 7). This
project is continuing at an Air Force base in New Mexico. (OPR):
XXXXXX

3. (TS/ORCON) PROJECT SNOWBIRD: (PROWORD): XXXXXX Originally
established in 1972. Its mission was to test fly a recovered
Alien aircraft. This project is continuing in Nevada. XXXXXX

4. (TS/ORCON) PROJECT XXXXXX XXXXXX Originally established in
1968. Its mission was to evaluate all UFOXXXXXX information
pertaining to space technology. PROJECT POUNCE continues XXXXXX
XXXXXX

<end quote>

Can anyone tell us more about this document, like when it first
emerged and whether its format is consistent with real
government documents? We cannot vouch for anything about this
document, but if we are looking for connections to the Jarod
story, it certainly has them. Our attention was drawn to it
because it was far more restrained than the Bill Cooper
conspiracy material it was packaged with. [See WWW for source.]
Cooper alleges every conceivable kind of conspiracy--JFK, AIDS,
New World Order and virtually anything else he can sell--but
this document seems to stick to the facts of only a single
alleged conspiracy. At least it was not created by your average
dim-wit conspiracy buff but someone with slightly more
sophistication.

The dates seem fairly consistent: At least 1953 is directly
cited by Jarod for the founding of his program. The date of
first contact, 1959, seems rather late, however. Did it take six
years to communicate with The Boys in quarantine, or did the
crash in which they were found take place later that 1953?
Project Snowbird is also confusing. A project to test fly alien
craft seems consistent with Lazar's tale but not Jarod's: By
1972, Jarod was already working on a flight simulator for the
human- built version of the craft. Wouldn't the flight testing
of the alien craft already have taken place?

We sent this document to Jarod 2. He seems to think it is a
fake. Without prompting, he says, "The dates are all wrong." He
also says there was no "MJ-12" after 1953; the new system put in
place by Nixon changed all that. He also says that the method of
classifying documents was changed. In other words, the form of
the document might have been valid before 1953, but not after,
as the dates in the document imply. Nonetheless, he says he did
not have a lot of experience with these kinds of documents so he
cannot say for sure. The technical documents he worked with did
not contain classification markings, except for strange filing
codes that may have been in Hungarian.

Enough with the Hungarian!

We contacted Paranet archivist Micheal Corbin to see if he knew
this document. He seems to recall that it came directly from
Bill Cooper--perhaps the world's least reliable source. Someone
else tells us the document is printed in full in Linda Moulton
Howe's cattle mutilation book, "An Alien Harvest." Howe said it
was part of Bill Cooper's "statement" released on Paranet and
Compuserve on December 18, 1988. All debate aside, this
document, real or fake, still fits the stream we are pursuing.
It is something that must be added to our heap of folklore for
categorization and posting to the Web.

 ..... AND WHAT ABOUT MJ-12? .....

The document above reminds us of another obvious connection: The
MJ-12 document. This is supposedly a briefing paper created for
President-Elect Eisenhower in Nov. 1952. [Available on WWW and
reproduced in "Above Top Secret" and other books.] "MJ-12"
refers to the committee allegedly appointed by President Truman
to study the UFO information. The authenticity of the document
has been widely analyzed and debated in the UFO press, with good
arguments on both sides. We have no desire now to jump into the
fray. Instead, we fall back on our old "folklore" excuse and
note only that MJ-12 is consistent with the stories of Lazar and
Jarod as well as the "executive" document above. In the briefing
papers, circa 1952, there is talk only of crash debris and
bodies, no live aliens or communication. It is plausible that
the new administration would want to study the situation for a
few months before implementing a replacement program in the
summer of 1953. Vice President Nixon was the logical choice to
review the problem and make recommendations; that is the sort of
thing vice presidents do since they are not under the gun every
day like the President is.

So what is the proto-story behind this stream of folklore? Is it
merely lies built upon lies? If so, what was the original lie?
The MJ-12 document surfaced in 1984, conveniently delivered on
35mm film to a UFO researcher. Whether real or fake, it must
have been derived from something previous--either the real
document from 1952 or the public UFO folklore up to 1984. In
other words, even fake documents follow rules of evolution. They
build upon the public information available at the time and
cannot reflect other people's claims that have not yet been
made. Dubious claims are still legitimate subjects for research,
and the conclusion that they are fabrications does not render
them devoid of interest.

For all four of these items--the MJ-12 document, the "executive"
document, Lazar's story and Jarod's story--there is no room for
"benign misinterpretation" by the speaker as might apply to
other folklore. Each of these documents or claims is either true
or a deliberate fabrication. Maybe some are real and some
fabrications, or maybe all are fabrications. In the total
fabrication scenario, one liar alone could not do the job; there
must be multiple liars, each building upon what the previous
ones have said, yet doing it free of the expansive ego and
grandiose inclinations common to the liars we have known. Bill
Cooper and Sean Morton are certainly capable of lying and
plagiarizing the ideas of others, as they frequently do, but
they could never agree with each other for very long or to such
an extent as this. It is their nature to expand every story
theatrically to hog the spotlight. In our experience, we have
never met a restrained liar. They lie to seek attention for
themselves and are rarely burdened in this pursuit by the need
for intellectual consistency.

These four stories, if all false, would at least provide us with
a new human animal: liars with restraint and principal, who hold
the integrity of a story higher than their own self-
aggrandizement. We ask ourselves, from a psychological
standpoint, How could this be so? What would motivate a liar if
not ego? Is it money? If so, who is paying and why? The
government certainly has the funds, but it would be engaged in a
most peculiar propaganda program: a coordinated effort since at
least 1984 specifically creating public distrust of the
government itself and drawing attention to secret defense
facilities. This is inconsistent with our knowledge of
government agencies, who tend to pursue single- minded agendas
defined by established rules with little room for much
subterfuge.

No matter how you slice it, there is something here to learn.

 ----- PURSUING THE HOLOGRAM -----

Reasonable skeptics ask, How could the government keep something
as big as UFOs secret for nearly 50 years? Regardless of the
efficiency of security, wouldn't the story have to leak out? The
answer may be that it already has. The truth could have been in
front of us all along, surrounded by the drivel of a dozen con-
men. Whenever a reasonable and compelling UFO story emerges, the
circus of wackos and charlatans arrives a few days later. They
are the human parasites who have come to suck the energy from
the story to turn it toward their own personal agenda. The
attraction does not end for them until they have thoroughly
discredited and fragmented the story and no one cares about it
anymore.

Maybe everything we want to know is already available to us in
the vast UFO slag heap, which is rapidly making its way onto the
internet as we speak. The challenge is how to separate the ore
from the dross, and one technique is our folklore method. We
look at the entire body of fantastic UFO stories, take it all at
face value and try to find parts of it which are related to each
other and fit together into a consistent whole. We are not going
to spend a lot of time on any one story, because life is short
and history has shown that specific UFO investigations lead only
to the conclusion that (A) the story is false or (B) that it
remains a mystery--neither of which significantly advances our
knowledge. Instead, we look at the entire body of folklore and
try to distinguish the various streams within it. Then, we
concentrate on what seems the most coherent and accessible
stream and apply to it the techniques of historical linguistics
to reconstruct the original proto-story which gave rise to this
folklore.

If the number of stories in the folklore stream is large enough,
they form a hologram. A hologram, in the physical sense, is a
piece of photographic film that you shine a laser into to
retrieve an image. As it happens, holograms were first conceived
in 1948 by a Hungarian-born engineer, Dennis Gabor, who may or
may not be related to the Hollywood sisters. Although the film
is flat, the image you see is in 3-D, and the entire scene is
represented in every part of the film. If you cut the film in
half, you still see the same picture, albeit in a fuzzier, more
degraded form. There can be defects in some parts of the film
without affecting the overall picture. The defects, in fact, are
easy to spot, because they clash with the image produced by the
rest of the film.

What this means to our folklore method is that as long as we
collect a lot of stories, we do not have to expend undue effort
worrying about the quality of each one. The defective stories
will automatically call attention to themselves as a common
image begins to emerge from the rest. Most of the theoretical
concepts that apply to physical holograms also apply here. To
get a three dimensional image from the two dimensional reports
being collected, the stories must contain, on the whole,
sufficient information about the source object to reconstruct
the third dimension. You don't get this information simply by
replicating the same 2-D picture.

For example: Let's say the folklore stream was started by a
liar, who simply made something up out of the blue. He tells his
story to two people, each of whom tell it to two more people,
and on, until we have a body of 1000 separate stories, each
distorted in its own way by the people it has passed through. If
you now collect all these stories and compare them, then
subtract out the irreconcilable inconsistencies between them,
what you have left is a story that is no deeper than the
original lie. The two dimensional story remains two dimensional
even though replicated.

It is different if the source object is something real and three
dimensional that a number of different witnesses had directly
experienced from different angles. This would be true if the
government UFO cover-up were real. Each of those witnesses tells
others, who tell others, and in the end you may have 1000
distorted stories just like before. If you analyze the folklore
now, you will find that on the whole the image has far greater
richness than any single story conveys. There will still be
inconsistencies, resulting from the noise picked up enroute, but
many unexpected but consistent details will also emerge. Encoded
in this body of distorted reports are the observations of the
original separate witnesses, each seeing the source object from
a different angle and conveying together a more complete picture
than any one of these witnesses actually experienced.

Perhaps our readers can see Psychospy's plan. We have focused on
a certain stream of folklore. This stream purports that a
limited section of the U.S. government has engaged in a
sophisticated UFO research program since the 40s and 50s; in the
course of this program, contact has been made with aliens and a
transfer of technology has taken place. There are many other
streams of the UFO folklore that we have chosen to ignore for
now. We haven't talked about abductions (AB), cattle mutilations
(CM), crop circles (CC), lights in the sky (LS), ancient
astronauts (AA), monuments on Mars (MM), underground bases (UB)
or Men in Black (MB). It is not that we regard these fields as
invalid; we simply haven't yet come across a substantial link to
connect them to the historical theme we have chosen to pursue,
which is government cover-up (GC). We think this makes our
pursuit more credible: We do not try to describe everything,
only a single government program.

Now that you can see where we are going, we need your help. We
want to collect more stories connected to our chosen stream, and
we know there are a lot of them out there. Anecdotes anyone?
What was the story someone once told a friend of your friend
about the tiny furniture he installed in a government
laboratory? Have you picked up anything relevant on the net that
you do not see referenced in our web pages? As long as some
specific government involvement is implicated, apart from
conspiracy speculation, we want to hear about it. No
Illuminati/New World Order theories, please! We want specific
experiences, not grand enlightenment. We also do not need to
know about underground bases or tunnels unless there is a
tangible link to government activity on the surface. We prefer
to receive these reports in electronic form, suitable for
posting to the Web. Anonymous reports are okay, but it would be
nice if we could publish at least your email address along with
them to allow further queries. We will accept and respect
confidential reports (TS/ORCON), but not with enthusiasm. If it
doesn't get on the Web, the story is as good as forgotten.

Volunteers are also needed to set up Web pages for the new
material. You need to speak Html, have more than half a brain
(90% preferred) and be willing to obey some standard rules of
style consistent with the existing pages. It is best if you can
provide your own web space, but we may be able to arrange space
if necessary. People with scanners and OCR software are also
needed to help turn printed reports from the pre-net era into
electronic ones, accessible by everyone.

Enroll now! Get in on the ground floor! This could be your
rocket ship to the Moon! (Or Hell.)

 ----- OUR READERS RESPOND -----

UFOjockey.nul writes:

  "I am fascinated by Jarod, but extremely bugged by the idea
the he is speaking with permission of his superiors. Uh, oh... I
think I'm beginning to smell a rodent. Permission of his
superiors??? Well, if it isn't just a load of disinfo, then "The
Boys" have made the decision to let their presence become known.
(Now we're in REAL trouble!)"

Lazar associate Gene Huff writes:

  "I've got two things to say [in response to DR#24]... The
first is, if people feel Bob Lazar fabricated his story to fool
Lear, they must at least give him credit for doing a fantastic
job. It is intertwined with all of the necessary components, all
the way down to frequencies of the gravity "A" wave. Second, he
has to be the most fantastic gambler ever. In 1988, he decided
to fabricate a story, betting that in subsequent years he could
make money on a movie deal. Now that's successful gambling!"

A technician at a Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory relays
this anecdote:

  "Our lab has physicists and their support staff that come over
from all government agencies and laboratories. Around 1991, I
asked an engineer about Area 51 because he had mentioned he
worked at the Nevada Test Site a number of years ago. He said
yes... there is indeed an Area 51 but mostly it involves Black
aircraft such as SR-71s, etc. I asked him about Bob Lazar and S-
4. Immediately his eyes became wide and he made fanning gestures
with his hands and said, "Don't talk about that here." After
that he got up and left and avoided all discussion about that
subject. He comes irregularly to our lab and he won't discuss
the subject anymore."

Reader RM writes...

"I am very interested in your work at Area 51... Has anyone
seriously discussed whether or not the creatures may be from the
far future? They may be afraid of paradoxes, which could explain
their bizarre activities trying to confuse the issue with us
looking only for aliens."

Never mind paradoxes; what about sarcasm? Are they afraid of
that? Could this be the anti-alien weapon to finally put an end
to those nasty abductions? Irony, too, could have deadly effect,
but can we trust the military with it? Could the same lethal
capability, intended to vanquish a foreign foe, be turned
against the domestic population? Fortunately, the U.S. defense
establishment still lags far behind the rest of the world in
these critical technologies. Although often a victim, the
military has failed to grasp paradoxes, sarcasm, irony, black
comedy or indeed any form of humor whatsoever. If anyone is to
save the planet by application of the comic arts, it must be us.

 ----- INTEL BITTIES -----

ALIEN HIGHWAY BILL DEFEATED. Much to our surprise, in spite of
unanimous approval in the state Assembly [DR#27], the bill to
designate State Route 375 the "Extraterrestrial Alien Highway"
has died in the Nevada Senate. As the legislative session
approached its close in June, the Senate Transportation Chairman
felt that the bill was frivolous compared to the other
unfinished business at hand and refused to consider it.
Personally, we blame Ambassador Merlin. His impure thoughts and
spilling of seminal liquor [DR#27] could only have angered his
alien overlords and disrupted the harmony of the cosmos. Merlin,
however, has acknowledged no defeat. "The Las Vegas Review-
Journal" reported:

"Ambassador Merlin II, a man who spends his days in the
Legislative Building and claims to be an alien, was not
disturbed by O'Donnell's reluctance to hear the bill. "There's a
government secret right now that will take care of the
situation," said Merlin, whose given name was David Solomon. "It
will be revealed shortly."








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   Jun > Jun 25

                       The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part V

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:58:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:58:20 -0400
Subject: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part V




For The Record

The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part V

From Glenn Campbell's Groom Lake Desert Rat

ebk

-----

THE GROOM LAKE DESERT RAT.  An On-Line Newsletter.
Issue #30. September 29, 1995.
 -----> "The Naked Truth from Open Sources." <-----
AREA 51/NELLIS RANGE/TTR/NTS/S-4?/WEIRD STUFF/DESERT LORE
Direct from Las Vegas, the Center of Human Civilization.
Written, published, copyrighted and totally disavowed by
psychospy.nul See bottom for subscription/copyright info.

In this issue...
   TURLEY WINS CRITICAL RULING
   AUTOPSY DISSECTED
   ROAD TRIP
   FOLLOW-UP ON "EXECUTIVE BRIEFING"
   INTEL BITTIES
   OUR READER'S RESPOND


 ----- AUTOPSY DISSECTED -----

"GET ME A BRAIN, IGOR. I MUST HAVE A BRAIN!"

The internet is looking like Frankenstein's laboratory these
days as armchair pathologists around the world dissect the alien
body shown on the alleged Roswell autopsy film. It's the O.J.
trial all over again! Guilty or not guilty, real or hoax? This
time the setting is an anonymous morgue somewhere in the
Twentieth Century. How many times can we watch the surgeon's
knife drawn across this poor bloated creature? How long must we
debate with our email colleagues whether the alleged alien blood
is oozing just right? After viewing the TV show frame by frame
and listening to the discussions on the net, Psychospy has made
his conclusion.

It's real.

The film that is. It really exists. We know it exists because it
was shown on Fox, the Simpsons/X-Files network, and they would
never lie to us (just selectively edit). A more difficult
question, which others seem obsessed with but doesn't bother us
too much, is whether the alien shown on this real film is a real
extraterrestrial. Our theory is that the truth will shake out on
its own, especially with so many net nerds currently chipping
away at it. Eventually the accumulated evidence will be so
overwhelming as to make the truth perfectly obvious, one way or
the other, and we see no need to declare our beliefs in the
interim.

Far more interesting to us are the intellectual processes and
human impact of the public investigation. It is fascinating to
watch ten thousand virtual human minds turn their resources to
this problem. Many of these minds are virtual morons (VMs) whose
words just take up space in the newsgroups, but there are also a
few smart characters on the wires, including competent
specialists in movie props, theater lighting, medical procedures
and military history whose professional advice you might pay
thousands of dollars for in the real world. Of course, even
these experts can't seem to agree. For every Hollywood prop
artist who says it can't be done, there's another who says it
can and under budget.

On the surface, the on-line investigation of the autopsy film
seems as noisy and chaotic as humanity itself, but when viewed
from above, a certain collective wisdom, larger than any one
member, is beginning to shine through. Very few people seem to
be jumping to conclusions. The dominant tone of on-line messages
is, "I don't know if the alien is real, but here's what I do
know." The debate overall has been remarkably logical and
scientific, with politics and emotions pushed to the background.

And in the process, whether by accident or design, the world is
now completely comfortable with alien autopsies.

Of course, if the autopsy is real, the release of the film could
be the most important event in the history of mankind, blah,
blah.  If the film is a hoax, the simplest explanation is that
it was cooked up by clever con artists with no privileged
information and no motivations other than money. Both options
seem rather boring and one-dimensional to us and leave nothing
much to talk about.

Even if real, the alien just lies there without bringing us any
closer to the truth. In our holographic folklore model [DR#29],
where we examine how this story fits with other saucer crash
claims, the film does not contribute anything significant to the
story we have already accumulated. The autopsy alien has six
human-like fingers, not the four long, slender ones usually
reported. This would have to be a different species of alien
altogether, one that lies outside the mainstream of our current
investigation.

Psychospy takes a pragmatic approach to the unknown. There are
too many mysteries in the world for us to tackle them all, so we
have to focus on the few that we have the resources to deal
with. We are willing to let a paranormal claim remain
unchallenged if we cannot relate it in some way to things we
already know. We hate to use the labels "true" or "false,"
instead we call things "useful" or "not currently useful." We
can accept parallel realities--that there might be both four-
fingered and six-fingered aliens--but we can only investigate
one reality at a time, and this must be the one we are currently
best equipped to handle. Our current conclusion about the
autopsy film is that it isn't very helpful in itself, but it
might teach us something about the people watching it.

After seeing the TV show several times, we are left with a lite
beer/diet soft drink kind of feeling, where we have consumed
lots of "product" but still feel empty. The hollowness comes
from the lack of human connections. If you seek photographic
evidence of the alien presence, here it is, but even the
clearest film or photograph is meaningless without direct human
testimony to establish its origins, and this we do not have. We
have only the secondhand tale of the alleged cameraman who will
not be interviewed, so we cannot observe his emotional
reactions.

What we found most compelling about the Fox TV show had nothing
to do with the autopsy: It was the testimony of Roswell native
Frankie Rowe, who recounted being threatened as a child by a
government interrogator after she handled some alleged evidence
from the crash. We saw what seemed to be real emotion in her
eyes, and the performance struck us as more genuine than any
actress we have yet seen on film. Cynical as we are about
television sound bites, faking such an automatic response on
extreme close-up seems to dwarf the challenges of reproducing an
alien body.

.....A THIRD SCENARIO.....

Between the bland black-and-white solutions of totally real and
totally hoax lies a far more interesting gray area. Maybe the
autopsy film is an artificial creation, but motivated by
something other than money. Can we explore such a theory without
dropping off the Deep End--into conspiracies galore and loss of
all logical discipline? We'll give it a try as we digress below
into rampant speculation.

Let us suppose that the UFO cover-up is real and the government
is neither dumb nor nefarious. In 1953, all alien information
was sequestered in its own secret division. (Jarod calls it the
"Satellite Government" [DR#24], but that sounds too sinister for
us, as it begs the question of which government is really in
charge. We prefer "special government entity" or SGE.) Back in
the 1950s, total secrecy might have been appropriate. The panic
associated with the "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast of 1938
still impressed the memories of those in power. A determination
was made by competent authorities that the populace was not yet
ready for the news, or perhaps that the news was not ready for
them. More time was needed for experts to study the problem--
both the aliens themselves and the possible public reaction--and
to prepared a plan. This might be a very long-term plan. The SGE
wanted flying saucers of its own before the news could be
revealed so the world would not appear so helpless. These were
built with alien help--aliens who were neither good nor evil but
simply alien and apparently willing to humor us for a while.

Those who sponsored the cover-up and staffed the SGE believed in
what they were doing. They were the finest minds of their
generation, men of good conscience who never expected the cover-
up to be permanent. Theirs was to be a transitional program,
albeit one with a long timeframe. The planners devoted much
attention to how the news should be released with minimal social
disruption. Ideally, elements of the truth should be let out
gradually over time, but how could this be done? The SGE could
not publicly admit any limited alien contact without being
forced to reveal it all. (Can you imagine the press of the
planet demanding any less?) Like the fall of communism, once the
wall cracks, it will come down all at once, with no further
opportunity for information management.

The goal of gradual release would be to acclimate the population
emotionally to the form and ideas of the alien presence without
triggering a total release. This can probably be done more
effectively by selective fictions than by truth, because
fictions can be controlled. A hoax need contain only that
portion of the truth which is ready to be introduced to public.
The rest can be a fabrication, just persuasive enough to get it
distributed on the Fox network. Indeed, some part of the story
must ultimately fall apart to assure it doesn't go too far, as
the hoax must eventually be dispelled to make room for a larger
truth.

Hence, the obvious presence of six fingers on the alien corpse
when the bulk of the Roswell and UFO cover-up lore describes a
four-fingered hand and any decent con-for-cash would provide the
same. Apart from that detail and a few other deliberate
discrepancies, the autopsy film could be a re-staged version of
an actual event. The SGE would certainly have the financial and
technical resources to produce such a low-budget flick, and it
may also have the dedicated staff who would do a better job than
any self-centered con artist.

This theory does not claim that the SGE controls the media or
otherwise manipulates public opinion. No one can do that. Our
own experience with all forms of major media--from Larry King to
"The New York Times" to the "Weekly World News"--has taught us
that the media is controlled by nothing more than ratings and
the pursuit of interesting and salable stories. Every journalist
we have met would violently rebel at the idea of the government
telling them what to write. They will not avoid an attractive
story, however, and someone can easily slip a hoax into the
media by understanding the needs of the market and tailoring the
product accordingly.

There are many things that a government entity, no matter how
well funded, cannot do. You cannot buy human reliability. Any
agent you recruit in the public sector is liable to crack under
torture or intense media coverage, or he could switch sides if
he finds it more profitable to write a tell-all book. Thus, it
is prudent when introducing any hoax to avoid human contact as
much as possible. The autopsy film fits the mold. Our only link
to the source is promoter Ray Santilli. He claims to have bought
the film from the cameraman, who is not available for interview.
Does the cameraman exist? To assure minimal vulnerability for
the hoaxers, he probably does--or at least someone playing his
role to Santilli. The only requirement is to convince Santilli
that the story is plausible and that he will make a lot of money
from it. Santilli presents no risk then, even if under
continuous media pressure, because he is telling the truth as
told to him and does not know the source beyond that.

Another candidate for a sanctioned hoax might be the MJ-12
papers [DR#29], which were supposedly delivered anonymously to
TV producer Jaime Shandera on an unmarked roll of film. Due
primarily to Phil Klass's discovery that Truman's signature is a
reproduction, these documents are now widely regarded as fakes,
with bad-boy ufologist Bill Moore being the prime suspect. Under
the gradual-release theory, though, Moore was only a victim. The
documents might be essentially correct, although refined by the
SGE to retain deniability and release only a comfortable amount
of information. Even if fake, the documents have had an
emotional effect, reinforcing the belief in the UFO community
that an MJ-12 type organization must exist.

Although the foregoing is only a theory, it is a fairly elegant
one. This "sanctioned hoax" scenario differs from other
conspiracy theories in that it proposes that the SGE is
ultimately working to promote the cause of truth and not against
it. It also requires far fewer resources and less government
omniscience than a more far-reaching scenario. If we felt it was
morally right, we at the Research Center could do the job
ourselves with only a limited staff plus the technical resources
to generate fake documents and films--talents known to be
possessed by the CIA. Then, it is only a matter of introducing
these artifacts in some discreet and anonymous way such that
they cannot be traced back to the source.

Some of the sanctioned hoaxes might take off in a big way, like
the autopsy film and the MJ-12 papers, while others could fall
flat and hardly be noticed. It would be an opportunistic
business where you have to keep an eye on the UFO subculture and
take advantage of opportunities when they arise. Whoever plans
these actions must be an avid watcher of the UFO field. He
subscribes to the literature, attends conventions and is
familiar with all of the major ufologists, albeit probably from
a distance to avoid any compromise. (He is not Phil Klass, by
the way, who has too high a profile, although he is certainly a
watcher of Phil.) He sees himself as the guardian of the UFO
movement, charged with distracting it in the early years but now
concerned with keeping it on track.

Our mystery man is probably getting along in years, having
started with the program, like most of his colleagues, in the
50s or 60s. His field is psychology, we suppose, and he was
trained in the old operant-conditioning school in which an
organism is acclimated to a traumatic stimulus by repeated
exposure to lesser forms of it. He himself is well conditioned.
He does not need to be told the goals of his organization
because he has fully internalized them, and he has won the trust
of superiors who has worked with for many years. This leaves him
free to be creative, to seize an opportunity and exploit it
without having to deal with too much bureaucracy. He goes to his
boss with a proposal, and the boss asks, "What resources do you
need? How are we vulnerable if fails?" Then, if the concerns are
answered, the boss says, "Okay, let's do it," and all the
requirements are provided.

Sounds like an interesting and challenging career. The mystery
man does it well and is proud of his work, because he believes
he is moving toward a higher goal, a day when all of humanity
might know everything he does. Although he is aware that his
organization will probably be disemboweled when the news gets
out, he is near or past retirement age and wants to escape from
the prison of silence in which he and his colleagues have been
trapped. He knows as well as anyone that the truth will have to
be known, and he is working in good conscience toward that goal.
Unlike on "The X-Files," he does not kill anybody, although he
might embarrass them to death when they fall for one of his
partial frauds. Ends justify the means, however, and no one is
suckered who did not set themselves up for it by their own ego,
greed or lack of intellectual discipline.

We cannot say that we believe this gray theory; we just leave
the door open to it. One should not underestimate the power of
simple human greed, which is a less complicated explanation than
any government program. We abhor conspiracy theories in general
and don't think the government can control society any more than
it does the weather. Still, a "sanctioned hoax" program would be
relatively easy to sustain, requiring only limited personnel and
funding. The only goal would be to introduce the proper stimulus
again and again, incorporating elements of the truth but not the
whole thing, so when the whole truth finally escapes it is no
big deal. If the current autopsy film is a fake, that does not
dilute its real social and emotional effects. If another autopsy
film were later released--the REAL film--it would cause no great
trauma because the world has the skills and maturity now to deal
with it.

.....JAROD'S OPINION.....

Jarod 2, the simulator designer, has been watching the autopsy
controversy and now appears to be getting sick and tired of it
like the rest of us. He seems to go back and forth between
believing it a hoax and wondering if it might be real. Jarod
says he was officially briefed about only a single saucer crash,
one near Kingman, Arizona, in 1953. He knows nothing about
Roswell except what he has read in the UFO literature. He points
out one curious detail, however: On a photo of the autopsy alien
shown on the cover of MUFON UFO Journal (August 1995), there
appears to be a teardrop-shaped scar on the left shoulder. This,
he says, looks like a smallpox inoculation scar. Most people
raised in the United States who are older than a certain age
ought to have such a scar, until smallpox was finally
eradicated. This suggests that the poor dead alien, or at least
his left shoulder, was raised here on earth.

Jarod also says that the skin of the alien in the film is much
too fine. It looks like human skin, whereas that of the aliens
he worked with was rougher. He compares skin of his advisor-
aliens to human skin that has been magnified many times, so the
pores and wrinkles are more obvious. Jarod's reluctance to draw
a negative conclusion on the film stems from his understanding
that there is more than one species of alien visiting earth.
However, all species he knows of are Grays with only minor
variations.

There are a couple of interesting parallels between the
cameraman's story and Jarod's. We note this quote from the
cameraman's written statement as distributed on the net....

  Inside [the craft], the atmosphere was very heavy, It was
impossible to stay in longer than a few seconds without feeling
very sick. Therefore it was decided to analyze it back at base
so it was loaded onto a flattop and taken to Wright-Patterson,
which is where I joined it.

Sounds like Jarod's account. In DR24, he said that in the
Arizona crash, an entry team went into the craft on-site but
later came out very sick. Then the craft, still humming, was
loaded onto a tank hauler and taken to the Nevada Test Site (or
Area 51 perhaps). Later, after communication was established,
the visiting aliens turned off the hum, and everything was okay.
Jarod speculates that the "heavy atmosphere" is a deliberate
security device. (We would rate it better than both Lo-Jack and
The Club for deterring flying saucer theft.)

One difference, however, is that Northwest Arizona to Southern
Nevada is a relatively short haul through an unpopulated area,
provided Las Vegas is avoided. (It was then a small, wholesome,
Mob-run city.) Socorro to Wright-Patterson (or Wright Field at
the time) would be a very long haul across half a continent,
past many places where this wide 10-meter payload would hardly
escape notice. Why carry something big, unknown and potentially
unstable any further than you had to? To work with an immensely
valuable artifact that might conceivably explode, you would want
a lot of empty land around you. White Sands Proving Ground, just
a few dozen miles from Socorro and where the first atomic bomb
was tested, would have been the logical choice, not Wright Field
or even Los Alamos, which had the brains but also a lot of
valuable assets at risk. At least you would take the craft to
White Sands first, and then--months or years later when you have
determined it is safe--you might move it elsewhere. If there
were no compatible facilities there, they would have been built
immediately. Every other option would have been considered
before hauling this possible time bomb across the U.S.
heartland.

Another match between the two stories is a "computer keyboard"
shown in the cameraman's debris footage. (This was not shown on
Fox but appears in the full Santilli video tape and has been
circulated as a still on the net.) A military officer, shown
from the neck down, holds a flat panel that bears the molded
outline of two six-fingered hands. The aliens presumably place
their hands against this panel to communicate with their
hardware. In fact, Jarod described a similar control panel to us
a month or two before this portion of the Santilli film came to
light. He was discussing the differences between alien avionics,
which were unusable to us, and the human-built versions, which
more resembled the instrumentation on a conventional aircraft.
Humans were not capable of flying the original alien craft,
which may be one of the reasons they had to build their own.

Jarod says he recently asked his boss about the autopsy film
(since Jarod still has a boss and remains on-call in spite of
his retirement). The boss said there were three such autopsy
films floating around, but he would not comment on the current
one. Jarod also asked about the "Hungarian" or other strange
writing he used to see on technical documents he worked with.
His boss
replied, "If you don't remember, I'm not going to tell you."








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 25

                      The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part VI

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:06:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:06:43 -0400
Subject: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part VI




For The Record

The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part VI

From Glenn Campbell's Groom Lake Desert Rat

ebk

-----

THE GROOM LAKE DESERT RAT.   An On-Line Newsletter.
Issue #31.  October 30, 1995.
 -----> "The Naked Truth from Open Sources." <-----
AREA 51/NELLIS RANGE/TTR/NTS/S-4?/WEIRD STUFF/DESERT LORE
Direct from Las Vegas, the Center of Human Civilization.
Written, published, copyrighted and totally disavowed by
psychospy.nul See bottom for subscription/copyright info.

In this issue...
     FLYING SAUCER CRASH-O-RAMA
     KINGMAN LANDING SITE
     KINGMAN POINTS OF INTEREST
     SOCORRO/ZAMORA LANDING SITE
     PRESIDENTIAL EXEMPTION GRANTED
     KLAS REVEALED
     INTEL BITTIES
     OUR READERS RESPOND


 ----- JAROD PORTRAIT -----

Below [on WWW] is a sketch made by the human engineer Jarod 2 of his
namesake alien Jarod 1, who he says is a technical advisor to the U.S.
government project to reproduce flying saucers. This is the same
sketch described in DR#24. This drawing was made from memory based on
first-hand encounters. [The picture may be copyrighted so please do
not copy it, although other web pages may refer to it here.]

While we are at it, here are a couple of tidbits from J-2,
supplementing his report on the Kingman landing in DR#24: As
previously reported, the four living aliens obtained at the landing
site were kept in quarantine in New Mexico before being transferred to
the Nevada Test Site. J-2 now says that the duration of their stay in
New Mexico was about nine months. During this time they did a lot of
reading and were kept supplied with books about our technology by
their hosts. (Obviously, these were gentlemen-and-scholar type aliens,
not the maiden-stealing, planet-threatening, "resistance is futile"
kind we ought to worry more about.)

Regarding the disc simulators he worked on, Jarod says he was
recruited for the program around the end of 1953, but he did not know
the project involved alien technology until about 1955. The first
simulator was completed in 1968. (It is not clear to us yet how this
reflects on the completion of the operational craft.) This is what he
calls the "start-up" version of the simulator--the first to be tested.
He continued work on improved models for the rest of his career.








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Jun > Jun 26

                     Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Shell

From: Tim SHell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:08:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:45:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Shell


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:28:08 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

<snip>

>>Not the same critter. Look at the ear.

>All questions answered:

>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/jrod.html

Thanks! Now I remember reading the page.

Sure looks different from that angle, but ever since the Alien
Autopsy there are a lot of alien models out there, and they're
pretty similar.

Muddying the waters. Or watering the mud, perhaps.








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   Jun > Jun 26

                 Re: Phoenix Lights Of June 15, 2004 - Bolt

From: William Bolt <ab5sy.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 06:55:24 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:50:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Of June 15, 2004 - Bolt


>Judy A. Varns <judyv.nul> wrote me:

>I am the state director of Mufon.
>
>Rob Kritkausky e-mailed me the film he took of the Phx Lights
>of June 15, 2002.

>I thought they looked very interesting, but familiar with many
>different types of lights in our night skies, and after frame by
>frame shots, and after some investigation, phone calls, etc. I
>also learned that they were some type of flares.  This is a
>learning experience that I share with my investigators.  To have
>this kind of footage, with close up pictures of this magnitude
>is such a good tool to share.

>When contacted by Rob, he never once declared that they were
>anything different, but unusual and most interesting.

>I thank Rob for sharing this film with me.  I have passed it on
>to others to observe and learn!

>Judy varns

>ST Dir of MUFON


Hi Judy,

What State are you the Mufon Director???

Mr Kritkausky's by making the pictures and video public was to
intentionally allow the public to believe the material presented
show images of a UFO of ET origin.

You confirm what Rob Kritkausky said in his email to me, that he
was aware the images to be flares. I ask then, why did he feed
this misleading material to the public through a web site
dealing with UFOs, if it was not his intentions, knowing that
less knowledgeable UFO/Alien buff would take this to be the long
searched for, finally at last long awaited proof of what we
believers hope for "Proof of Aliens/UFOs"

No, this was an intentional attempt to generate a hoax and Mr.
Kritausky should be tar'd and featured.








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                     Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Chace

From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 09:18:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:57:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Chace


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:28:08 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:52:29 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:37:39 EDT
>>>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

<snip>

>>>http://www.parascope.com/nb/1096/pent.htm
>>>http://www.ufo.se/ufofiles/english/issue_3/penth.htm
>>>http://www.iufomrc.org/movie.htm

>>>I took one look at that pic on UFO Mag's site and for the
>>>life of me couldn't fathom how anyone in this area of
>>>research wouldn't recognize that pic.

>>Not the same critter. Look at the ear.

>All questions answered:

>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/jrod.html

The three links Greg provided go to the Penthouse alien hoax,
which involved photographs taken at one of the UFO museums in
Roswell of the alien model used in Showtime�s 1994 Roswell
movie. It�s a different model from the one shown in the Xerox.

Now Royce has answered the question of who made the model in
the Xerox and what it was used for.

It appears it was created several years ago for use in a 20/20
broadcast. And as Bill Hamilton pointed out, it has nothing to
do with Dan Burisch or J-Rod.

The model (?) shown in Ray Santilli�s alien autopsy footage
apparently inspired the FXmasters 20/20 model (the one shown in
the Xerox).

Interestingly, the FXmasters model is actually a little closer
in appearance than the Santilli alien to the way gray aliens
tend to be described by abductees and represented in
illustrations by artists such as John Velez, Steve Neill and
Bill McDonald. They usually look less human and have more
steeply slanted eyes and more of a pointed chin.


David W. Chace









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                     Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:34:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 08:28:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Boone


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:28:08 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

<snip>

>All questions answered:

>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/jrod.html

Thank you Royce! Thank you!

In the future we can avoid such stuff by just working together
as a community team with honor and respect. Glad you could
present the truth with such alacrity.

That's why I enjoy this List so much. Data can be presented,
debated, corrected. More 'gentlemanly' manner could be expressed
but hey, let humans be humans.

Now let's sit back and see if Burish takes up Mr. Ecker's
challenge to face the fire.

I, as you, don't put much value on lie detectors. Yet at least
Don Ecker is genuine enough to offer the services.

Once more another fun UFO story!


Best,

Greg







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                Friedman/Shostak Debate & NUFORC MUFON Paper

From: Peter Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:20:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 08:38:44 -0400
Subject: Friedman/Shostak Debate & NUFORC MUFON Paper


To The List:

I sent the following to the List on Wednesday, June 23, but
apparently it did not find its way to Errol.....


Peter

-----


From: Peter Davenport <director.nul>
To: <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2004
Subject: Friedman/Shostak Debate

I was tuned in to Coast to Coast last night, looking forward to
the debate, and was disappointed to learn that it had been
cancelled. I, like many others, I assume, leapt to the
possibility of subterfuge and manipulation on the part of the
'black hats', but I guess we have to make allowances for
illness.....

I thought this might be an appropriate time to share with the
group the subject of my presentation at the MUFON symposium in
Denver next month, given that the technology I will propose may
have a significant effect on the relationship between SETI and
ufology. To whet people's appetites, and with the hope of
stimulating debate on the matter, I copy the title and
abstract of my paper, below:

---

Using Multistatic Passive Radar For Real-Time Detection Of UFO
In The Near-Earth Environment

Author: Peter B. Davenport
        Director, National UFO Reporting Center
        Seattle, Washington


Abstract:

The author proposes a system for the remote, real-time detection
of UFO�s in the near-Earth environment, using passive, multi-
static, frequency-modulated (FM) radar. The system capitalizes
on the use of multiple, time-synchronized radio receivers to
capture high-frequency radio signals reflected from a target.
The time-lapse between received signals, together with three-
dimensional Doppler-shift analysis, permits calculation of a
target�s location, velocity, acceleration, flight path, and
other parameters, possibly to include target size estimation.
Signal analysis of the reflected signal, combined with analysis
of target characteristics, will permit discrimination between
suspected UFO�s, and targets of terrestrial origin, e.g.
aircraft, satellites, space debris, meteor trails, upper
atmospheric conditions, weather phenomena, migratory birds, the
Moon, etc.. One application proposed may allow detection of
UFOs out to a range of at least 27,600 kilometers from the
Earth�s surface.

---


I also copy below a few interest website, which pertain to the
subject of "passive" radar:

http://rrsl.ee.washington.edu/

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_42/b3854113.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/radar_stealth_010614.html

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/jaws/sentry.pdf

http://www.ifp.uiuc.edu/~smherman/darpa/

http://www.crows.org/Events/2003/PCR/PCR03_Agenda.pdf

http://www.crows.org/Events/2003/PCR/general.htm

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,16762,00.html


The significance of all of this is that we ufologists, in the
very near future, probably will be able to detect UFOs in the
near-Earth environment through the application of passive radar,
and we will no longer have to go to the government, hat in hand,
begging for information about UFOs. In fact, in the extreme,
they may come to us, inquiring whether we would be willing to
share _our_ radar data with _them_, which would be a most
welcome change!

A considerable amount of work is yet to be done for building a
system tailored to detecting UFOs. However, because of the
rapid improvement in personal computers, and because of the
existence of the GPS system (for time synchronization purposes),
we "mere" citizens are in a position, for the first time ever,
to construct our own UFO-detection systems.

I invite comment, and will attempt to answer all questions.


Peter
NUFORC








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              (SK) New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography (Burton &

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:59:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 08:44:10 -0400
Subject: (SK) New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography (Burton &



http://www.csicop.org/bib/668
-----------------------------

Magic, Mystery, And Science: The Occult in Western Civilization
Dan Burton and David Grandy

http://iupress.indiana.edu/books/0-253-21656-7.shtml

2004, Indiana University Press; xii+390p., illustrated anti-
science:defense, astrology, astrology:defense,
astrology:history, newage:defense, newage:history, numerology,
numerology:defense, occult, occult:defense, occult:history,
paraphysics:defense, phrenology, psi:defense, psi:history,
religion:history, UFO, UFO:defense, UFO:history

Skeptics will find much of this book irritating, but it is also
informative and worth reading.

The authors, a historian and a philosopher, give a sympathetic
history of the Western occult tradition, contrasting it to
scientific rationalism and orthodox religion alike. They present
a lot of useful information in a very readable fashion at an
introductory level. What is most important, they take care to
express an occult point of view - not as something stupid or
false, but as something that made sense in its historical
context, and which seems compelling to many today. The worst
flaw of the book is that the authors have no clue about either
the nature of science or the content of sciences such as
contemporary physics. It portrays systems of thought as
emanating from basic presuppositions. So if the occult tends to
be rejected by science, they say this is due to non-evidential
reasons. Nevertheless, if readers can ignore its silliness about
modern science, this is a valuable book. Skeptics in particular
need to better understand the attraction and internal logic of
occult and new age views, which picture the universe as an
organic, living whole permeated by mind and purpose.

Magic, Mystery, and Science will help.


Visit the full bibliography at:

http://www.csicop.org/bibliography/

Please consider submitting an entry yourself.

Taner Edis
SKEPTIC bibliographer


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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               (SK) New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography (Kelly)

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 12:01:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 08:49:26 -0400
Subject: (SK) New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography (Kelly)



http://www.csicop.org/bib/669
--------------------------------------------------=
--------

The Skeptic=92s Guide To The Paranormal
Lynne Kelly
2004, Allen & Unwin
Crows Nest (Australia; US edition soon); 260p.

critical-thinking, crop-circle, cryptozoology, fraud, prophecy,
psi, shc, skepticism, survival, UFO

A fine book covering many matters of interest and concern to
skeptics everywhere, but written to be readily accessible to likely
consumers of paranormal offerings.

Kelly lays out the claims for the whole range of paranormal
claims: UFOs, psi phenomena, cryptozoology and more. She then
explains how they might work or how they go wrong. This book is
not a mere academic exercise;

Kelly has even invented her own form of divination, and
performed at psychic fairs with a "success" rate no different
than those who pass themselves off as psychics.

No skeptic can afford to be without it. It will give you the
wherewithal to answer all those questions that crop up at dinner
parties, meetings of the knitting circle or football club, and
in terms that require no deeep understanding of quantum physics
or abnormal psychology.

Reviewed by Barry Williams
skeptics.nul


Visit the full bibliography at:

http://www.csicop.org/bibliography/

Please consider submitting an entry yourself.

Taner Edis
SKEPTIC bibliographer


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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                     Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Teri

From: Teri Hayes <truthspupl.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:24:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 08:55:00 -0400
Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Teri


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>From: Don Ecker <decker0726.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:19:02 -0700
>>Subject: J-Rod And The Challenge

><snip>

>>Instead of attacking UFO Magazine, take a look at the people who
>>would rather _believe_ than _investigate_, then ask who is
>>attempting to find out what is what.

>I hope you are doing well these days. You and I are both trained
>detective investigators. Why don't you run background checks on
>Burish? If you don't have the tools yourself I'm sure that my
>alma mater of West Coast Detectives in N. Hollywood can do it at
>a low cost. For those who wish to expose Burish it would be good
>to find out his past, especially if he ever worked for the
>military or any government agency. His background may be so
>dubious that it would preclude the polygraph. I'm not going to
>comment on why science is not more forthcoming but I think the
>high proportion of poseurs in this field do not make it
>legitimate for many scientists to pursue.


Hi List,

I have been reading everything possible about Dan Burisch. It is
a very difficult call as to the Truth of this matter.

But it seems to me that there are not a great deal of
individuals who truly understand the clandestine activities of
the Military/Government let alone the Black Operatives which
would even be clandestine to the general Government.

You must be kidding yourselves if you believe that certain
'records' exist to prove much of anything Dan Burisch says. He
has been working within a Black Project. This means _complete_
anonymity.

Being former military myself I have seen individuals trained at
certain tasks and never having any indication of it on paper, at
all. The Black Government would be very ignorant to leave a
paper trail behind if they truly desired complete anonymity.

They are saying (the public and many on this List) "If Dan
Burisch has a PH.D. in anything than let us (the general public)
see it!" And than when it is not produced you will hear "I can
debunk Dan Burisch because there is no indication that he even
has a PH.D. in anything!" and etc. etc.

This is exactly what they (the ones who are instigating the
Black Projects) would want you to think. Anyone who thinks this
way is also controlled and therefore not a Threat to them or the
project.

It is interesting to note, also, that according to certain
information on Dan Burisch whenever he appears to speak to
anyone it is said that he shows up with his 'three (3) Handlers'
with him. Handlers? If he still has handlers than they are still
on him and they are probably listening very closely at exactly
what he is saying. THEY are only letting enough information out
to cause the exact stir that is occurring now all over the
Internet.

Is he telling the truth, or not? Where is this so called PH.D.?
Put up or shut up!

The only reason that Dan Burisch has been allowed to say
anything about his work is for the sake of plausible
deniability.

This list accomplishes that very well by buying into the 'prove
it' scenario. You are exactly where they want you when you think
that way.

The Government (white or black) would simply say or imply that,
"Do you actually believe that we would be doing this type of
thing and then allow someone to come out and talk about it?" Or
even, "Let him talk, the public will NEVER find their proof and
he (Dan) will simply be ridiculed. As long as we keep any
pertinent proof of Dan Burisch's truthfulness locked very
tightly away than we have no worries."

For instance, I have read and have been told by a couple
different individuals that the series "StarGate SG1" is indeed
based on a 'real' Stargate. I have also been told by a certain
individual that it looks almost identical to that one. This is
the same thing. The Government would simply say, "Do you really
think that we would allow this television show to reveal such a
valuable and volatile Military secret to the entire world?"

The answer to that is yes, because it creates plausible
deniability and the best place to hide anything is in plain
site.

We also must never forget that there are those who would create
DISinformation as well. This could be what Dan Burisch is doing,
at the request of his Handlers or his Bosses or
whomever/whatever. But, to be fair, it could also be what
certain individuals on this List are doing or are attempting to
do.

I, myself, will not cease in reading every bit of information I
can on Dan Burisch or the information he himself is providing. I
am one of those who, admittedly, believe what he says.


Teri Hayes
truthspupl.nul









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                 Re: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part V - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 05:32:36 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 10:37:48 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part V - Burns


From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers - :>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 11:58 AM
Subject: UFO UpDate: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part V


>For The Record

>The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part V

>>From Glenn Campbell's Groom Lake Desert Rat

>ebk

>-----

<snip>

>His boss replied, "If you don't remember, I'm not going to tell
>you."

<snip>

EBK and Listers,

For what its worth I know JAY-rod, I've known him for at least 10
years. Have eaten with him and spoken to him, a number of times
over the years. He has told me some interesting things.

I quite like him and did not feel he was being deceptive.
Evasive yes, but he has told me a few things that are not in the
public domain.

Don't gasp List, nothing earth-shattering.

He has told me that, maybe, at the end of his time he might tell
me all that he says he knows. I hope he has a long life.

He certainly is a very intelligent, direct individual.


Max









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                     Re: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:03:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 10:45:17 -0400
Subject: Re: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Hatch


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:06:43 -0400
>Subject: UFO UpDate: The 'Story' Of JAY-rod - Part VI

<snip>

Hello Royce, Tim, Greg, EBK and all:

I read thru' the wonderful 6-Part JAY-rod Series by Glenn
Campbell, and have another story to add!

Its way off-topic, but much shorter.

-----

Passengers on flight 618 out of San Francisco thought it was an
April Fools joke when the Captain felt his way up the aisle,
wearing blacked out glasses and tapping his way forward with a
black and white cane. Next came the co-pilot guided by a blind
dog!

Nervous laughter turned to near panic when the plane taxied to
the runway, gained speed, and headed right for SF Bay!

Passengers let out a terrible scream when they saw the end of
the runway, the Bay itself. Just then the plane gracefully
lifted... a perfect takeoff!

Up in the cockpit, the co-pilot threw some switches, then leaned
over toward the pilot.

"Dammit Bob. One of these days the passengers will scream too
late and we're just screwed!"

-----


Sorry

- Larry







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                        'UFO' Spotted In Irish Skies

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:13:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 10:50:45 -0400
Subject: 'UFO' Spotted In Irish Skies


Source: The Belfast Telegraph

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=535416

'UFO' is spotted in skies

By Paul Dykes
newsdesk.nul
26 June 2004

Two men working high up a radio mast in Co Monaghan believe they
have spied a top-secret inter-planetary craft flying toward
Belfast.

Miles Johnston, of the Irish UFO Research Centre, and Dublin-
based rigger Terry Malone claim the delta-winged craft traversed
the sky at ultrasonic speed, taking just a few seconds to reach
the horizon.

"I am convinced it was a man-made advanced space craft - we had
a good long look at it in a clear blue sky," Mr Johnston said.

Mr Malone confirmed the object was "absolutely enormous".

"It was huge, high, and travelling at some speed," he said.

"I've seen B52s going over and you can hear them buzzing, but
there was not a sound from this thing. And it was gone in an
instant."








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                 Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:20:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:11:09 -0400
Subject: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory


Source: WebMD

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/89/100279.htm?z=1728_00000_1000_nb_04

Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues On Memory

Study: Distress Doesn't Necessarily Validate Traumatic Memories

By Jennifer Warner
WebMD Medical News
Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
on Friday, June 25, 2004

June 25, 2004 -- Recalling a traumatic memory may provoke severe
distress in people, even if the memory may be a product of their
own imagination, according to a new study.

The study showed that people who claim to have been abducted by
aliens show the same signs of distress, such as increased heart
rate, sweating, and muscle tension, shown by people recalling
more plausible traumatic events, such as wartime experiences.

Researchers say these signs of distress are often viewed as a
testament to authenticity of a person's memory of a traumatic
event, such as childhood abuse. But the researchers say these
results show that physiological responses should not be used to
verify traumatic memories in the evaluation of posttraumatic
stress disorder (PTSD).

Alien Memories Provoke Distress

In the study, researchers recruited people who said they had
been abducted by aliens and had them describe their alien
encounter as well as other stressful, happy, or neutral
memories.

The researchers converted those recollections into 30-second
narratives and played them back to the "abductees" while
measuring their heart rate, sweat production, and facial muscle
tension. For comparison, researchers also played the tapes to a
group of people who had no memories of alien abductions.

The study showed that people who said they had been abducted by
aliens had strong distressful reactions to the stressful and
alien abduction narratives and weaker reactions to the others.
The comparison group had little reaction to any of the stories.

The study also showed that people who said they were abducted by
aliens also scored higher on measures of psychological traits
that make them more likely to experience alterations in
consciousness, to have a rich fantasy life, and to endorse
unconventional beliefs.

Researchers say that for people who believe they have been
abducted by aliens, recalling their abduction can provoke
physiological reactions similar to those evoked by more
verifiable stressful memories.

Therefore, they say physiological responses are not a valid
indicator of whether a memory is real or not.

"Although improbable traumatic memories (e.g. being sexually
probed on a spaceship) provoke physiological reactions
comparable to those provoked by more conventional and verifiable
traumatic memories (e.g. a firefight in Vietnam), one should not
conclude that PTSD patients are reporting false memories of
trauma," write researcher Richard McNally of Harvard University
and colleagues in the July issue of Psychological Science.

"Conversely, the physiological markers of emotion that accompany
recollection of a memory cannot be taken as evidence of the
memory's authenticity," they conclude.











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              Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:00:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:00:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:20:54 -0700
>Subject: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory


>Source: WebMD

>http://my.webmd.com/content/article/89/100279.htm?z=1728_00000_1000_nb_04

>Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues On Memory

>Study: Distress Doesn't Necessarily Validate Traumatic Memories

>By Jennifer Warner
>WebMD Medical News
>Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
>on Friday, June 25, 2004

>June 25, 2004 -- Recalling a traumatic memory may provoke severe
>distress in people, even if the memory may be a product of their
>own imagination, according to a new study.

>The study showed that people who claim to have been abducted by
>aliens show the same signs of distress, such as increased heart
>rate, sweating, and muscle tension, shown by people recalling
>more plausible traumatic events, such as wartime experiences.

This so-called study just about defines pseudoscience, proving
exactly what the researchers wanted to prove: that since
abduction stories are pure fantasy, stress associated with them
is based in fantasy. Talk about a tautology. They had to do a
"study" to confirm what they could just have asserted casually,
and as plausibly?

If not for their operating assumption (i.e., unexamined belief),
this study could be used to argue, more logically, for an
opposite conclusion: that abduction experiences, like more
conventional stressful experiences, cause deep stress and thus
may have a reality status comparable to those of more prosaic
trauma- inducing events.

>The study also showed that people who said they were abducted by
>aliens also scored higher on measures of psychological traits
>that make them more likely to experience alterations in
>consciousness, to have a rich fantasy life, and to endorse
>unconventional beliefs.

"Rich fantasy life"? Such as conviction that alien intelligences
exist? "Endorse unconventional beliefs"? Such as that they have
experienced otherworldly phenomena? I should think so. Boy, them
scientist fellers sure are smart.

Since I'm too big to cry, I think I'll just laugh instead.


Jerry Clark









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                     Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 08:56:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:04:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Myers


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:34:37 EDT
>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:28:08 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

><snip>

>>All questions answered:

>>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/jrod.html

>Thank you Royce! Thank you!

>In the future we can avoid such stuff by just working together
>as a community team with honor and respect. Glad you could
>present the truth with such alacrity.

>That's why I enjoy this List so much. Data can be presented,
>debated, corrected. More 'gentlemanly' manner could be expressed
>but hey, let humans be humans.

>Now let's sit back and see if Burish takes up Mr. Ecker's
>challenge to face the fire.

>I, as you, don't put much value on lie detectors. Yet at least
>Don Ecker is genuine enough to offer the services.

While I appreciate the efforts of Don Ecker and company for
stepping up and challenging Burisch to prove his claims, I think
the poly exam is a waste of time. The only way to do this is to
have Burisch's complete co-operation in conducting a thorough
background investigation.

But wouldn't you know it - according to Linda Howe, Burisch has
allegedly negotiated an early retirment with the government and
won't be coming forward anymore after June 8th... and look, it's
the 26th. Convenient?

Maybe. Probably. It's going to take far more than Linda Howe
saying that Burisch is telling the truth simply because she
finds him sincere.

Short of having Burisch's cooperation, we're left with choosing
to believe his tale or not. Burisch's story proves nothing and
will be yet one more chapter to add under UFO Lore in the big
book of UFOs. We're left, yet again, without any definitive
proof.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"








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   Jun > Jun 26

               Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Nadi

From: Mo Nadi <mo.elnadi.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:55:41 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:08:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt? - Nadi


>From: Mo Elnadi <mnadi.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:20:25 -0400
>Subject: Re: Is There A UFO Researcher In Egypt?

>Vicente's request has reminded me of a very interesting UFO
>sighting that happened in Janurary 2000 in Cairo, Egypt over the
>Giza pyramids.....

>I am including here my English translation; as the original
>article is documented in Arabic through this article by one of
>the witnesses who is also a famous Egyptian writer Mr. Mohamed
>Salmawy and was printed and published online and in Al-Ahram
>Newspaper (official newspaper in Egypt) on 31st January, 2000

>http://www.ahram.org.eg/archive/Index.asp?CurFN=WRIT1.HTM&DID=6556


Dear Listers,

Back in May I sent an English translation about a famous UFO
sighting over Cairo, Egypt in Jan 2000 by a young man called
Omar whom the newspaper wrote about at the time.

Today I stumbled upon a post by the witness himself "Omar Hilal"
talking about this same incident whom his family and office
colleagues witnessed from two different locations around 15km
apart.

As you might notice his version of the story has several
different details from the original that was published by the
newspaper writer Mohamed Salmawy who heard about it over the
phone

-----

http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=507

Cairo, Egypt
January 25, 2000, 5:05 PM

Omar Hilal wrote, "I was in a meeting at my office in Mohandeseen,
Giza on January 25, 2000, when I received a call from my mother at
5:05 PM. She excitedly told me, "Omar, I see two massive UFOs above
the pyramids. They look just like the one I saw last summer in
Alexandria. They're huge and very bright." Before she finished her
sentence, I ran to a window that looks in the direction of the
pyramids. My work mates thought I went nuts, but they ran along with
me. Five minutes later, after searching the sky, we saw one about 10
km away. It was "massive" cigar shaped bright orange craft moving at
slow speed from northwest to southeast.

It was 45 degrees high and it flew past for about 35 seconds in the
area between the buildings opposite us. Regrettably, we have a huge
building across the street blocking our view of the pyramids, so we
couldn't see the other UFO.

My mother and her driver were much more fortunate. She parked on
el-Muneeb Bridge, and had a clear view. She described them as two
massive "neon bars," each 30 meters long, (100 feet) coming at slow
speed from opposite directions meeting exactly above the second
pyramid. They paused above each other for a half a minute or so and
then continued moving in opposite directions. the UFOs were a
beautiful sight over the Giza complex at sunset for 15 minutes. My
mother, felt they resembled a UFO that emitted white smoke, that she
had seen in Alexandria four months earlier. Omar further explained
that strange things had bee happening to him in recent days prior to
the sighting. Omar states, "I called a friend of mine, one of Egypt's
top columnists, who at first thought I was mad, but realized he had
also seen them when he flew in from Rome. He wrote about what he saw
in four episodes in his weekly column in "Al-ahram."

Thanks To Omar Hilal for his report.

Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research








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             Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate & NUFORC MUFON Paper -

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 12:26:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:11:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman/Shostak Debate & NUFORC MUFON Paper -


>From: Peter Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:20:25 -0700
>Subject: Friedman/Shostak Debate & NUFORC MUFON Paper

<snip>

>From: Peter Davenport <director.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2004
>Subject: Friedman/Shostak Debate

>I was tuned in to Coast to Coast last night, looking forward to
>the debate, and was disappointed to learn that it had been
>cancelled. I, like many others, I assume, leapt to the
>possibility of subterfuge and manipulation on the part of the
>'black hats', but I guess we have to make allowances for
>illness.....

>I thought this might be an appropriate time to share with the
>group the subject of my presentation at the MUFON symposium in
>Denver next month, given that the technology I will propose may
>have a significant effect on the relationship between SETI and
>ufology. To whet people's appetites, and with the hope of
>stimulating debate on the matter, I copy the title and
>abstract of my paper, below:

>---

>Using Multistatic Passive Radar For Real-Time Detection Of UFO
>In The Near-Earth Environment

>Author: Peter B. Davenport
>        Director, National UFO Reporting Center
>        Seattle, Washington

>Abstract:

>The author proposes a system for the remote, real-time detection
>of UFO's in the near-Earth environment, using passive, multi-
>static, frequency-modulated (FM) radar. The system capitalizes
>on the use of multiple, time-synchronized radio receivers to
>capture high-frequency radio signals reflected from a target.
>The time-lapse between received signals, together with three-
>dimensional Doppler-shift analysis, permits calculation of a
>target's location, velocity, acceleration, flight path, and
>other parameters, possibly to include target size estimation.
>Signal analysis of the reflected signal, combined with analysis
>of target characteristics, will permit discrimination between
>suspected UFO's, and targets of terrestrial origin, e.g.
>aircraft, satellites, space debris, meteor trails, upper
>atmospheric conditions, weather phenomena, migratory birds, the
>Moon, etc.. One application proposed may allow detection of
>UFOs out to a range of at least 27,600 kilometers from the
>Earth's surface.

<snip>

Peter, List

If you're thinking about using the name 'UFO.nul' I'm afraid
it's already taken. :-)

http://rr0.sourceforge.net/

I would consider contacting Jerome Beau about possibly
connecting with his project. He and other developers have
already done quite a bit of work.

Write to jbeau.nul Tell him I sent you.


Terry Groff








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              Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:37:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:13:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:20:54 -0700
>Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:11:09 -0400
>Subject: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

>Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues On Memory

>Study: Distress Doesn't Necessarily Validate Traumatic Memories

>By Jennifer Warner
>WebMD Medical News
>Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
>on Friday, June 25, 2004

>Researchers say that for people who believe they have been
>abducted by aliens, recalling their abduction can provoke
>physiological reactions similar to those evoked by more
>verifiable stressful memories.

>Therefore, they say physiological responses are not a valid
>indicator of whether a memory is real or not.

Remarkable example of perverted "scientific" reasoning. The
only correct conclusion that could have been drawn from such a
study as that people who believe they have been abducted by
aliens show the same physiological stress indicators as people
suffering from known trauma. End of story.

Instead the researchers introduce their own prejudices,
resulting in a totally unwarranted conclusion. UFO abductions
can't be real. Therefore the physiological responses that
normally indicate a real experience are not a reliable indicator
of reality. That's known as begging the question. Abduction
can't be real, therefore any evidence that might support
abduction is invalid.

Where did these bozos learn to think?


David Rudiak








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              Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 14:41:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:20:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:20:54 -0700
>Subject: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

>Source: WebMD

>http://my.webmd.com/content/article/89/100279.htm?z=1728_00000_1000_nb_04

>Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues On Memory

>Study: Distress Doesn't Necessarily Validate Traumatic Memories

>By Jennifer Warner
>WebMD Medical News  Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
>on Friday, June 25, 2004

>June 25, 2004 -- Recalling a traumatic memory may provoke severe
>distress in people, even if the memory may be a product of their
>own imagination, according to a new study.

<snip>


Hello All,

This most recent load of 'could be this - could be that' psycho-
babble concludes with:

>"Conversely, the physiological markers of emotion that accompany
>recollection of a memory cannot be taken as evidence of the
>memory's authenticity," they conclude.

Hmmm. By virtue of the fact that the abductees are demonstrating
_identical_ physical responses to recollections of traumatic
events as those who have experienced 'verifiable' war-time or
child-abuse trauma, this 'study' could more _honestly_ conclude
that; because we do not 'currently' have physical verification,
(or, pending the discovery of physical evidence/verification
in abduction cases) we should all withhold judgement on the
validity of abduction reports.

Until these guys learn to admit that genuine mysteries exist,
that they do _not_ have the answers to everything, we will
never get the straight dope on anything.

Anybody who carefully reads this report can see how they flip-
flop back and forth with their i'nterpretation', saying, on the
one hand, how this study demonstrates physical responses to
memory of traumatic events does not 'authenticate' the
experiences, while they cover their academic asses by including
the following - almost as a disclaimer to their own conclusion:

>"Although improbable traumatic memories (e.g. being sexually
>probed on a spaceship) provoke physiological reactions
>comparable to those provoked by more conventional and verifiable
>traumatic memories (e.g. a firefight in Vietnam), one should not
>conclude that PTSD patients are reporting false memories of
>trauma," write researcher Richard McNally of Harvard University
>and colleagues in the July issue of Psychological Science.

There are _two_ ways to interpret the study material. This one
arrives at a biased 'conclusion' based on incomplete
information: No independent group or expert has yet made a
dedicated effort to look for hard physical evidence in abduction
cases. Ergo we can not honestly state whether 'verification' for
the reports of the abductees exists or not. Unless I've missed
some major study, no one I know of, is actively looking for
'evidence' in abduction cases.

These psycho-babblers, like 'priests,' presume to place
themselves between individuals and their own native
intelligence. They would have you believe the whopping lie that
they actually know what the hell they are talking about. Balls!

It's much more important to study and learn all that you can
from as many sources as you can and then, make _up_your_own_ mind
about what it all means or indicates. Don't trust somebody else
willy-nilly to 'think' for you when the stakes are this high.
Abduction reports are not to be 'blown off' lightly and for the
following reason:

If just a few of the abductees are telling the truth, what
makes you think that you and your wife and children are 'immune'
to the exact same treatment the abductees have been subjected
to?

Chew on that one a bit.

Regards,

John Velez, Abductee








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   Jun > Jun 27

                    Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 20:42:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:25:28 -0400
Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Miller


>From: Teri Hayes <truthspupl.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:24:10 -0700
>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>>From: Don Ecker <decker0726.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:19:02 -0700
>>>Subject: J-Rod And The Challenge

>><snip>

>For instance, I have read and have been told by a couple
>different individuals that the series "StarGate SG1" is indeed
>based on a 'real' Stargate. I have also been told by a certain
>individual that it looks almost identical to that one. This is
>the same thing. The Government would simply say, "Do you really
>think that we would allow this television show to reveal such a
>valuable and volatile Military secret to the entire world?"

>The answer to that is yes, because it creates plausible
>deniability and the best place to hide anything is in plain
>site.


Teri,

Interesting thought and one I have to say that has struck me in
the past. It would explain a lot of things. Then tie it in with
the work Graham Hancock has done and it begins to look real
neat. Of course, pure speculation, tut tut.


Stuart Miller








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   Jun > Jun 27

                            Pelicans Take Flight

From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 20:52:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:27:26 -0400
Subject: Pelicans Take Flight


List

From UFO Roundup vol 9 number 25

27,000 Pelicans Vanish From North Dakota Lake

"Wildlife officials estimate nearly 27,000 American white
pelicans have abandoned their summer nesting grounds at a
national wildlife refuge north of Medina, NorthDakota
(population 335). The question is why...and where they went."

'It's like they packed up and left in the middle of the night -
 except they didn't pack up, they just left,' said Ken
Torkelson, a spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in
Bismarck, the state capital.

"Left behind were thousands of eggs, which are unlikely to
hatch, officials say.The Chase Lake National Wildlife Refuge is
the home of the largest nesting colony of white pelicans in
North America.

The birds were noticed missing two weeks ago,said Kim Hanson,
refuge manager of the Arrowhead complex,which includes Chase
Lake. 'We don't think they were killed. We think they abandoned
their nest,' Hanson said Wednesday," June 16, 2004.

"Officials suspect some kind of disturbance - human or animal -
 because some of the remaining birds appear more skittish than
normal, Hanson said. The pelicans nest on Chase Lake's two
islands, and, for the past decade, they also have built a colony
on a peninsula on the side of the lake as their numbers
increased. Wildlife officials say about 80 pelicans are left on
the peninsula and on one of the islands. The other island has
seen no major population loss and still has about 2,400 birds."


Conclusion:

They've all gone back to Mount Rannier.
The earth's magnetic field is about to flip.
We're in for a bombardment of meteors.
The end of the world is about to happen.


Stuart Miller








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                         Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:53:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:29:11 -0400
Subject: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?


Hi

That references to the greys having big black wrap around eyes
in the J-Rod posts makes me wonder. I have some doubt that
such big black wrap-arounds are biologically likely. More likely
they are the greys' version of our sunglasses?

I remember reading somewhere a claim that those wrap arounds are
in fact visibility enhancing lenses which allow night vision
(and likely protection from very bright scenes.)

Just as the seemingly far too rapid "assembly line" work being
done in the Alien Autopsy film, a statement like the wrap
arounds being natural makes me wonder about the authenticity of
such statements. Of course, it is possible that the writer
wasn't aware they were eye coverings.


Eleanor White








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              Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:47:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:33:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:37:52 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:20:54 -0700
>>Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:11:09 -0400
>>Subject: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

>>Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues On Memory

>>Study: Distress Doesn't Necessarily Validate Traumatic Memories

>>By Jennifer Warner
>>WebMD Medical News
>>Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
>>on Friday, June 25, 2004

>>Researchers say that for people who believe they have been
>>abducted by aliens, recalling their abduction can provoke
>>physiological reactions similar to those evoked by more
>>verifiable stressful memories.

>>Therefore, they say physiological responses are not a valid
>>indicator of whether a memory is real or not.

>Remarkable example of perverted "scientific" reasoning. The
>only correct conclusion that could have been drawn from such a
>study as that people who believe they have been abducted by
>aliens show the same physiological stress indicators as people
>suffering from known trauma. End of story.

>Instead the researchers introduce their own prejudices,
>resulting in a totally unwarranted conclusion. UFO abductions
>can't be real. Therefore the physiological responses that
>normally indicate a real experience are not a reliable indicator
>of reality. That's known as begging the question. Abduction
>can't be real, therefore any evidence that might support
>abduction is invalid.

>Where did these bozos learn to think?

Hello all,

This 'conclusion' by smart people is why I rail against
scientific fundementalisum which is, in my opinion, worse than
religious fundementalisum in this sense; these Klowns (the
smart people, thoss with a degree in-Science) have the ear of
the Mainstream. The Klass Klowns are the worst of the lot.

But what _is_ scary is that the implication that abuctees and
experiencers are, well, mentally-ill, somehow. If their
experience shouldn't exsist, it therefore can't - sort of a
Shrodenger's elephant.

We know the elephant is in the room, but he isn't supposed to
exsist, so therefore, he can't be observed.Yet no one can
explain the missing peanut bags and the shells on the floor...


GT McCoy








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                   Re: Alien Autopsy Crash Site? - Mantle

From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 13:40:54 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:36:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Crash Site? - Mantle


In our l996 book Beyond Roswell, Michael Hesemann visited an
area in the New Mexico desert that he is convinced is the crash
site from where the alien autopsy film was shot.

I just wondered if there was anyone on the List who had also
visited that site and either agreed or disagreed with Michael's
opinion on it.


Many thanks,

Philip Mantle








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              Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 20:28:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:39:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:20:54 -0700
>Subject: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

<snip>

>http://my.webmd.com/content/article/89/100279.htm?z=1728_00000_1000_nb_04

<snip>

>June 25, 2004 -- Recalling a traumatic memory may provoke severe
>distress in people, even if the memory may be a product of their
>own imagination, according to a new study.

>The study showed that people who claim to have been abducted by
>aliens show the same signs of distress, such as increased heart
>rate, sweating, and muscle tension, shown by people recalling
>more plausible traumatic events, such as wartime experiences.

More_plausible? Sounds like you had your minds made up before
the "study".

<snip>

>The study also showed that people who said they were abducted by
>aliens also scored higher on measures of psychological traits
>that make them more likely to experience alterations in
>consciousness, to have a rich fantasy life, and to endorse
>unconventional beliefs.

IMO, a very alarming conclusion that sets a dangerous precedent.

<snip>

>"Although improbable traumatic memories (e.g. being sexually
>probed on a spaceship) provoke physiological reactions
>comparable to those provoked by more conventional and verifiable
>traumatic memories (e.g. a firefight in Vietnam), one should not
>conclude that PTSD patients are reporting false memories of
>trauma," write researcher Richard McNally of Harvard University
>and colleagues in the July issue of Psychological Science.

"Although_ improbable_traumatic_ memories..." Again, this says
alot about the "objectivity" of this study.

>"Conversely, the physiological markers of emotion that accompany
>recollection of a memory cannot be taken as evidence of the
>memory's authenticity," they conclude.

It's only your imagination anyway. Unless, of course, you were
in a firefight in Vietnam.

While I can see the merits of this study, it is obvious McNally
and his colleagues don't_ have_ a_ clue. Can't wait for the UK
version to come out. More of the same?


Kelly Freeman








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                    Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <KellKhfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:37:57 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:15:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo? - Freeman


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:34:37 EDT
>Subject: Re:Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:28:08 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Alleged 'J-Rod' Photo?

<snip>

>>All questions answered:

>>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/jrod.html

<snip>

>Once more another fun UFO story!

Greg and list,

This UFO 'story' , as well as UFO research in general, is
anything but fun. It's more like running through a cow pasture
blindfolded, trying to avoid the smelly, messy "landmines", but
ultimately stepping on piles and piles of them. They just seem
to be everywhere, no matter where you run.

The truth_is out there...somewhere amongst the piles.


Kelly








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                               Call For Papers

From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue.nul-ces.org>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:14:33 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:19:26 -0400
Subject: Call For Papers


To: UFO Researchers And Investigators

Call For Papers

The Society for the Scientific Investigation of Anomalous
Atmospheric and Radar Phenomena (Mutual UFO Network -- Central
European Section) celebrates its 30th anniversary this year.

The goal of MUFON-CES is to raise the UFO discussion to a
scientific level and inform the scientific community about the
phenomenon.

For the anniversary we will publish a new German report
including research results from the past 30 years.

MUFON-CES has already published ten research reports in German
and one in English, all of which are regarded as belonging to
the best in the field. Application of the scientific method is
the precondition for the requested work.


MUFON-CES Requests:

* papers on thoroughly investigated sightings of UFOs and
   its occupants or other investigation and research into the
   subject

* analyses of physical effects of UFOs and papers about the
   physical nature of the phenomenon in general (e.g.
   propulsion system)

* papers that sum up or analyse research results of a longer
   time frame

* papers on progress in UFO research or the =93evolution=94 of
   the phenomenon

* studies of the UFO situation in single countries or
   continents

* papers on philosophical, sociological, psychological,
   political, financial or organizational questions on UFO
   research

* papers specially on the future of UFO research and its
   place in the scientific community.

All papers will be subjected to a referee procedure. Papers,
essays, short or freely designed items that may have been
published in other languages or anthologies are welcome.
Material from outside the German speaking domain are especially
requested. If you want to publish in German -- we will arrange
the translation if necessary -- please contact us at the given
address.

Deadline for final script: December 31, 2004

Proposals and comments are welcome. Please feel free to
distribute this call on your own, e.g. on you website.

Thank you


Dipl.-Phys. Illobrand von Ludwiger
illobrand.von.ludwiger.nul-ces.org
Tel. +49 80 63 70 65
Bahnhofstr. 51
83620 Feldkirchen-Westerham
Germany

URL for this call:

http://www.mufon-ces.org/text/english/call2004.htm

MUFON-CES: http://www.mufon-ces.org/








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   Jun > Jun 28

                   Re: Alien Autopsy Crash Site? - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 15:10:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:27:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Crash Site? - Gehrman


>From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 13:40:54 +0100
>Subject: Alien Autopsy Crash Site?

>In our l996 book Beyond Roswell, Michael Hesemann visited an
>area in the New Mexico desert that he is convinced is the crash
>site from where the alien autopsy film was shot.

>I just wondered if there was anyone on the List who had also
>visited that site and either agreed or disagreed with Michael's
>opinion on it.

Philip,

I have visited the site Michael has identified several times,
and I can report  that I am 100% sure that it is not the crash
site the AA cameraman described.

The most important discrepancy is that the crash area is not a
dry lakebed but a watering hole for cattle and is marked as such
on maps of the area.

Also there are no signs of burned vegetation, or the blue,
glass-like material that the cameraman indicated  marked the
crash site.

The site is too close to Hwy 60 and  only about 1/2 hour from
town which is important since the cameraman has stated that the
site is an hour from Socorro.

The drawings the cameraman directed do not match Michael's site
in even one of the numerous details they depict.

Michael may be "convinced it is the crash site", but it doesn't
measure up to the cameraman's yardstick and no amount of
twisting or turning of facts will make it so.

The actual crash site is about four miles of arroyo (& 1/2 hour)
south-east of Michael's site and is covered with glass-like
material (cristobalite) and burned vegetation; there is also a
match with the cameraman's drawings in every important detail.


Ed









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                     Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:11:43 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:32:08 -0400
Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Hall


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 20:42:10 +0100
>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>From: Teri Hayes <truthspupl.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:24:10 -0700
>>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>>>From: Don Ecker <decker0726.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:19:02 -0700
>>>>Subject: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>For instance, I have read and have been told by a couple
>>different individuals that the series "StarGate SG1" is indeed
>>based on a 'real' Stargate. I have also been told by a certain
>>individual that it looks almost identical to that one. This is
>>the same thing. The Government would simply say, "Do you really
>>think that we would allow this television show to reveal such a
>>valuable and volatile Military secret to the entire world?"

>>The answer to that is yes, because it creates plausible
>>deniability and the best place to hide anything is in plain
>>sight.

>Interesting thought and one I have to say that has struck me in
>the past. It would explain a lot of things. Then tie it in with
>the work Graham Hancock has done and it begins to look real
>neat. Of course, pure speculation, tut tut.

>Stuart Miller

Hello fellow paranoids!

Sorry I missed Josh Goldstein's comments (deleted in this post)
on this "stargate" fantasy because I am sure, knowing Josh, that
they were pertinent and pungent.

So, if the Government is telling the truth, it is really lying
and covering up, and if it is lying and covering up, it is/is
not telling the truth. What mind-bending concepts. You win, they
lose every time.

As I learned in philosophy class long ago, it would also
"explain a lot of things" if you postulate an all-powerful,
inviisble green demon sitting in the corner and foiling you at
every turn. I vote for the inviisble green demon. - Dick

P.S. I 'have been told' all sorts of weird and illogical and
off-the-wall things by people over the years. What a wonderful
source to document anything you want to believe.










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                   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:26:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:34:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Shell


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:53:38 -0400
>Subject: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>That references to the greys having big black wrap around eyes
>in the J-Rod posts makes me wonder. I have some doubt that
>such big black wrap-arounds are biologically likely. More likely
>they are the greys' version of our sunglasses?

My ex-wife is a graphic designer/illustrator and during her
schooling she learned quite a bit about why and how eyes work
and why they are shaped the way they are. Why they have to be
a certain shape in order to pick up certain colors and be in
focus, etc. She always thought those large, black, wrap-around
eyes were ridiculous, because unless they were some kind of
compound eye, like an insect, they really wouldn't "work" very
 good.

She also knew enough about anatomy to question whether those
large heads could be adequately supported by those skinny little
necks. Something to think about from a functional/anatomical
perspective.








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              Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -

From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:22:17 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:46:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:20:54 -0700
>Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:11:09 -0400
>Subject: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

>Source: WebMD

>http://my.webmd.com/content/article/89/100279.htm?z=1728_00000_1000_nb_04

>Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues On Memory

>Study: Distress Doesn't Necessarily Validate Traumatic Memories

>By Jennifer Warner
>WebMD Medical News
>Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
>on Friday, June 25, 2004

>June 25, 2004 -- Recalling a traumatic memory may provoke severe
>distress in people, even if the memory may be a product of their
>own imagination, according to a new study.

<snip>

An upcoming issue of Discover magazine, which will reach the
general public immediately after the McNally study is released
to the professional journal readers, will feature yet more
drivel from McNally.

But that's nothing you haven't seen before, as McNally was
already covered extensively in worldwide press after he gave his
verbal presentation of his then-unpublished study last year. So
what "new" material can one expect from this last round?

Well, for laughs one can expect that the Discover magazine
article may also feature my screaming match with the writer of
the piece. By "writer" I don't mean McNally - McNally and I got
along just fine despite our difference of opinion (the
difference being that of the researcher who believes he's got an
original idea trotting out the old 1980s standby of "alien
contact is sleep paralysis" and the experiencer - myself - who
took part in his study but discounts that theory as being an
understandable guess, but insufficient).

I'm referring to my meeting with the writer of the Discover
article, which had us leaning in to each other nearly screaming
at one another (or at least baring our teeth) over our
differences, which were more fundamental than a difference of
opinion over whether aliens exist - we couldn't get past our
different viewpoints on what reality is! She had a hard core
secular humanist viewpoint, and she baited me pretty deftly by
feigning that she had no idea what I meant when I described
reality as being made up of more than just the mundane world.
(I've been interviewed before, but evidently only by neutral
parties - this was the first time I was being interviewed by
someone whose own belief factored heavily in the interview
itself).

I am exaggerating our argument only slightly, but am probably
under-exaggerating our differences. I believe I wrote, here on
the List, about the meeting at the time, it should be archived
on the List if I did. Or perhaps I didn't write about it. But I
remember how amusing it was to see this writer fawning over
McNally's theories while hardly taking a moment to type a word I
said when I explained my assessment.

That said the article may turn out fine, but that is hardly my
expectation going in to it, since the writer is the same woman
who did a hatchet job article on Dr John Mack back in the
mid-90s, for Psychology Today magazine.

Somehow, this freelance writer with a hard core secular humanist
streak knows enough to appear in the right time and place to
boost the skeptics' arguments. And surely it is just some kind
of random chance that you'll surely find many members of the
Council for Secular Humanism referenced in her latest article.

The McNally article appears in the July 2004 issue of
Psychological Science (vol 15: pp 493-497).

The magazine article fawning over McNally appears in either the
August or September issue of Discover.

And by the way, thanks (to everyone who read that MDWeb press
release with a skeptical eye and saw the assumptions that the
researchers made, and who then articulated where those
assumptions led them away from the responsible conclusions).








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   Jun > Jun 28

                                Sharon Larkin

From: Mike Wray <MIKEMIWA.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 01:24:57 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:07:42 -0400
Subject: Sharon Larkin


Dear Chris Parr

Sorry to write on something which was over a year ago but I have
only just come across the post.

I refer to your disparaging comments on Sharon Larkin, UFO
Magazine's Investigator Of The Year 2002. Unfortunately we have
not the benefit of the late Mr Graham Birdsall nor UFO Magazine,
so my comments will have to do.

I have known Sharon personally for many years, she is neither a
glory hunter nor prone to making up stories. She has been doing
her research for many years and I have been present on many
occasions where people have sighted objects, some we have been
able to explain, others not. So, to call her an "X-Files
fantasist" is totally unfair if not slanderous.

What she does is not a figment of her imagination, she believes
in it, goes about it dilligently, and in depth. It is people
like her that keep this flagging subject going and people like
her that keep some pockets lined.

So before you try to sound all knowing, remember there are
people into this subject who, like you, believe in what they are
doing, not for glory. She didn't ask for the award you know.

But to get to the truth regarding The Chinook Crash, do you
think there was a coverup? Having been in the military for many
years, I certainly believe so. They are not going to admit to
anything.


Sincerely

Mike Wray








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                   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Chace

From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 03:10:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:10:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Chace


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:53:38 -0400
>Subject: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>I have some doubt that such big black wrap-arounds are
>biologically likely. More likely they are the greys' version of
>our sunglasses?

>I remember reading somewhere a claim that those wrap
>arounds are in fact visibility enhancing lenses which allow
>night vision (and likely protection from very bright scenes.)

It is difficult to say what is biologically likely for
extraterrestrials, if we assume that is what the gray beings
are. Certain biological features should be almost universal,
found on earth-like biospheres all over the universe. I assume
that eyes (light sensors) would be such a feature.

When we see an all-black eye, we might assume that we are
looking at a widely dilated pupil, because that=92s what we=92re
used to. However, an eye that appears solid black may actually
have a darkly pigmented iris and sclera that one simply wouldn=92t
notice unless one gets a particularly close look under good
lighting conditions. So even if we assume the eye is biological,
and that it is similar in structure to the eye of a terrestrial
vertebrate or cephalopod (like an octopus or squid) it could
still appear completely black.

I think the late Colonel Philip J. Corso is the one best known
for suggesting that the black eye coverings (if that=92s what they
are) are visibility-enhancing lenses for night vision. (I am
aware of the previous debates on this list regarding Corso=92s
credibility.) Certainly these black lenses must have some
function if they are artificial. I doubt that the aliens wear
them just for style. Whether the function would be to enhance
night vision, shield the eyes from bright light or UV radiation,
or something else I can=92t say.

The UFO abduction researcher Derrel Sims reported that one of
his abductees, acting under a post-hypnotic suggestion from him,
ripped the eye cover off of one of the gray aliens and
underneath was what looked like a non-biological red screen of
some sort. A few years later Derrel heard that the aliens
described in the 1996 Varginha crash incident also had red eyes
and he took this as possible confirmation of the previous
report. Derrel thinks that the small Grays are robots, androids
or synthetic biological units of some sort doing the dirty work
of the alien middle management that is rarely seen by abductees.

The UFO abduction researcher Raymond Fowler has written about
the issue of the Grays=92 black eyes in his book "The Watchers II"
about the Betty Andreasson Luca case. The chapter is entitled
"Biobics." Betty witnessed a procedure in which the solid black
eyes were removed from the eyestalks of a red amphibian-like
creature (apparently grown as a living organ farm) and
surgically implanted into a Gray to replace its eyes, which
appeared diseased or worn out. Bear in mind that the gray aliens
seen by different abductees often look different in build and
appearance and may even have different numbers of fingers, so we
may also be dealing with several different kinds of eyes.

One last anecdote relevant to this issue=85 I know a woman who has
been visited by a being she knows as Dahami. Dahami is a male
being about 4=924" to 4=926" tall who looks kind of like a cross
between Napoleon and Yoda. He is much more human looking than
the typical gray aliens. This woman once observed Dahami either
putting in or taking out dark lenses that covered the entire
visible surface of the eye. Without the lenses Dahami clearly
has an iris, a sclera and a vertically oriented oval shaped
pupil in each eye. When the lenses are in place the iris and
pupil are still visible, but only barely. The woman never
learned (last I talked to her) what the purpose of these lenses
was.










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                  Two *U* UFO Database Pages In Poor French

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 04:15:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:15:09 -0400
Subject: Two *U* UFO Database Pages In Poor French


Hello all, especially French speakers

I have taken the two most visited pages on my website, and
translated them into French.

My main entry page:

http://www.larryhatch.net

now has a little link called [version Francaise] which leads
here:

http://www.larryhatch.net/INDXFR.html

in poor French.

The second most visited page is my main Maps Menu:

http://www.larryhatch.net/MAPSMENU.html

If you call the maps menu from the French Version above, you
find the same menu but in even worse French:

http://www.larryhatch.net/MMENUFR.html

It took 12 hours to put those two pages together.

Clicking on any map from MMENUFR does something quite different.
Each map link invokes a machine translation thanks to Google.
Every map display will appear with the text in disastrous
French.

I beg your forgiveness. Please do not poison my cheese. I can't
change the machine translations, but I gladly welcome
suggestions to improve the two pages INDXFR.html and
MMENUFR.html which I perpetrated myself.

Time permitting and very slowly, I may take a stab at other
unsuspecting languages.


- Larry Hatch








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               Year Later Alien Mystique Hovers Over Rockville

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:16:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:24:51 -0400
Subject: Year Later Alien Mystique Hovers Over Rockville


Source: The Daily Republic

http://www.dailyrepublic.com/articles/2004/06/28/news/news1.txt

June 28, 2004

Full circle -- One year later, alien mystique still hovers over
Rockville

By Warren Lutz

ROCKVILLE -- Where Rockville and Suisun Valley roads meet
outside Fairfield, it's just another day. Nothing paranormal
about it.

Nobody is wandering around, for example, wearing an aluminum
foil hat, armed with a tuning fork and chanting toward the
heavens. And nobody from Fox News or CNN is following them
around with beefy news cameras, beaming their images around the
globe.

"Everything's back to normal," said Sally Estudillo, owner of La
Barista. "But it was fun while it lasted."

It was exactly one year ago when a huge crop circle formation
mysteriously appeared in a wheat field only yards away from
Rockville Corners, turning this sleepy farming community into
ground zero for the largest paranormal event in Solano County's
history.

For a while, the discovery brought national attention and lured
thousands of psychics, researchers and curiosity seekers to the
area. Some took measurements and meditated over broken chaffs of
wheat. Some claim they felt waves of healing energy pour through
their bodies. Some sold wheat and commemorative T-shirts. A
little girl sold "alien lemonade."

At the center of the circus stood Larry Balestra, owner of the
wheat field. Everyone wanted an interview with the soft-spoken
farmer, who remembers feeling uncomfortable with all the
attention. At least initially.

"I'm not the kind of guy who likes to be that public," Balestra
said. "But it got easier. They were lining up."

Among those pulled to Rockville was Carolyn Skrzydlewski, a
graphic designer at the Berkeley Psychic Institute. She
remembers the intense energy she felt from the crushed stalks.

"It was a sort of unsettled feeling as I was standing there, a
bit uncomfortable," Skrzydlewski recalled. "The energy changed
as we sat in the center of the circle."

What was it? A year later, she still isn't sure.

"Better people than me have formed hypotheses," she said. "I'm
open to it being whatever it is, or isn't. But I think it was
absolutely fascinating. It was quite obviously something no
person could have made."

Or could they?

Two weeks after the discovery, four teenage boys came forward to
confess they had made the crop circles out of boredom. The hoax
theory satisfied skeptics, but holes emerged in the boy's story.
They claim they worked by moonlight, for example, although it
was two nights before a new moon.

Meanwhile, a Fairfield based paranormal research firm that
studied local crop circle formations found the circles were
subjected to microwave energy and were likely created by someone
with extremely advanced knowledge of Euclidean geometry.

Steve Moreno, founder of the firm, PsiApplications, still doubts
the teens' tale.

"If they did do it, they wouldn't be aware of any of those
things, and they wouldn't be able to duplicate those effects,"
he said.

In the weeks after the crop circles were discovered, two other
formations turned up - a small one in a nearby wheat field, and
another in a corn field 15 miles away, near Vacaville's Nut Tree
Airport. Proof of who or what created them remains unknown.

Despite the debate - or maybe because of it - the Rockville
formation proved fortuitous for an area that has been hard-hit
by decades of dropping crop prices and the pressures of
encroaching development.

Business at La Barista shop hummed along for several weeks, as
city dwellers who eventually grew tired of standing in a hot
wheat field ordered smoothie after smoothie.

"It lasted a lot longer than I thought," Estudillo said. "At
first I thought it would last just a week, but they kept coming.
. . I thought, 'This is big stuff.' "

Balestra, too, rode the wave. Business picked up at Larry's
Produce, his fruit and vegetable stand down the road from the
crop circles. And the farmer made extra cash by selling crop
circle T-shirts.

Eventually, the bubble burst and the crowds went home. In the
end, Balestra figures he broke even between destroyed wheat
crops and modest T-shirt sales. (He has plenty of shirts left,
for anyone who's interested.)

While the Rockville crop circles stand as the single largest
crop circle formation in North America, they're gone now.

And if the circle-makers - whoever they are - return to
Balestra's field this year, they won't find wheat. They'll find
black-eyed peas.

Green leafy sprouts will soon cover the area where thousands of
human beings stood last summer and felt . . . something. But
what?

A mystery, still unsolved.

Despite a front row seat, Balestra isn't any closer to the
truth.

"Everybody who has their opinion has a good argument," he said.

But if his black-eyed peas one day grow feet and walk away,
we'll know.








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                 Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:39:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:07:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Lehmberg


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:26:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:53:38 -0400
>>Subject: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>That references to the greys having big black wrap around eyes
>>in the J-Rod posts makes me wonder. I have some doubt that
>>such big black wrap-arounds are biologically likely. More likely
>>they are the greys' version of our sunglasses?

>My ex-wife is a graphic designer/illustrator and during her
>schooling she learned quite a bit about why and how eyes work
>and why they are shaped the way they are. Why they have to be
>a certain shape in order to pick up certain colors and be in
>focus, etc. She always thought those large, black, wrap-around
>eyes were ridiculous, because unless they were some kind of
>compound eye, like an insect, they really wouldn't "work" very
> good.

>She also knew enough about anatomy to question whether those
>large heads could be adequately supported by those skinny little
>necks. Something to think about from a functional/anatomical
>perspective.

This universe is large enough and has been around long enough to
try a few things of which your ex-wife may be unaware.
Everything she's thought of and all of that she hasn't has
occurred (or will) somewhere in its near timeless expanses and
we'd grow up a little bit as a species if we copped to that. I'd
suggest that it is very likely that she didn't know near enough
about anatomy, Tim, for her to make anything but the rank call
of a clueless dilettante regarding what has gone on in her
microscopic sliver of time and space. More to heaven and Earth
and all that.....

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.






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              Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:58:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:53:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 20:28:37 EDT
>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 05:20:54 -0700
>>Subject: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

><snip>

>>http://my.webmd.com/content/article/89/100279.htm?z=1728_00000_1000_nb_04

><snip>

>>June 25, 2004 -- Recalling a traumatic memory may provoke severe
>>distress in people, even if the memory may be a product of their
>>own imagination, according to a new study.

>>The study showed that people who claim to have been abducted by
>>aliens show the same signs of distress, such as increased heart
>>rate, sweating, and muscle tension, shown by people recalling
>>more plausible traumatic events, such as wartime experiences.

>More_plausible? Sounds like you had your minds made up before
>the "study".

><snip>

>>The study also showed that people who said they were abducted by
>>aliens also scored higher on measures of psychological traits
>>that make them more likely to experience alterations in
>>consciousness, to have a rich fantasy life, and to endorse
>>unconventional beliefs.

Whoa! Wait a minute! Let's turn this intellectually auto-erotic
Harvard psychological 'horse-of-a-declaration' around for a
minute and have a look at its posterior end:

As an intellectual exercise, let's postulate for a moment that
abductions really happen to some people. That given, isn't it
somewhat reasonable to suspect that most persons whisked into a
strange aerial vehicle (that came out of the sky) by only quasi-
human-looking bipedal beings and put through some of the things
rumored to happen to 'abductees' might as a result become
somewhat more inclined, "...to have a rich fantasy life, and to
endorse unconventional beliefs...", and maybe, in some cases,
even occasionally be more inclined to experience "...alterations
in consciousness..." than the average person?

I suspect only the near brain-dead would fail to experience such
an effect upon their lives. In fact, I can recall quite a few
cases over my five decades of serious UFO studies in which very
ordinary-minded persons suddenly became, self-admittedly, very
much as described above, but only after having had very close
encounters with UFOs or even with their alleged occupants.

Or, alternately, who can vouch that alien visitors might not, in
the first place, simply find the minds and/or the genes of
somewhat unconventional thinkers or original thinkers more than
just a tad more interesting and perhaps even useful to whatever
their agenda might be, than, say, duller thinkers?

For the record, this is not a personal need-to-believe axe I'm
grinding here, because I personally don't find most publicized
abduction claims credible. But there are, it seems to me, some
fairly persuasive cases suggesting that at least some abductions
might have happened. Where there's something that looks and
smells like smoke, I think it not irrational to at least open-
mindedly investigate to try and learn whether there might be
some alien-induced fires in the great forest of human
experience.

And, if there are, humankind had better be concerned, even if
the phenomenon does not as yet seem to touch the personal life
of most persons.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






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                  Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:10:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:54:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Warren


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:26:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:53:38 -0400
>>Subject: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>That references to the greys having big black wrap around eyes
>>in the J-Rod posts makes me wonder. I have some doubt that
>>such big black wrap-arounds are biologically likely. More likely
>>they are the greys' version of our sunglasses?

>My ex-wife is a graphic designer/illustrator and during her
>schooling she learned quite a bit about why and how eyes work
>and why they are shaped the way they are. Why they have to be
>a certain shape in order to pick up certain colors and be in
>focus, etc. She always thought those large, black, wrap-around
>eyes were ridiculous, because unless they were some kind of
>compound eye, like an insect, they really wouldn't "work" very
> good.

>She also knew enough about anatomy to question whether those
>large heads could be adequately supported by those skinny little
>necks. Something to think about from a functional/anatomical
>perspective.

Tim,

In the vernacular of one of my favorite aliens, "it is not
logical to try and interpret 'alien physiology' through 'human'
explication."

Frank










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                Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:15:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:57:57 -0400
Subject: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged



From "The Bleat," date and author unknown.....

-----

Happy Screedy Thursday to you all. It's been a great day, busy,
filled with nifty heartwarming domestic moments and odd non-
polarizing revelations... all of which will have to wait for
tomorrow. I have a craw full today, I do. Let me vent before I
sleep. Happy fun-ball thoughts tomorrow. Now: le bile.

Patrick Stewart jumped the shark. Snagged his foot caught in the
beast's mouth on the way over, too.

Actor Patrick Stewart - better known as Capt. Jean-Luc Picard of
"Star Trek: The Next Generation" - says he thinks humans have no
business traveling in space.

"I'm a bit of a wet blanket when it comes to the whole business
of space travel," Stewart said in an interview posted on the BBC
Web site.

The man whose mission was to "explore strange new worlds" as the
captain of the starship Enterprise from 1987 to 1994 thinks
space exploration is the height of "arrogance."

Great job, Pat! Nice of you to wad up all the goodwill you've
accumulated and flush it down the toilet. Let's review: you're
most prominently identified with which character? No, not Ahab.
Perhaps Professor Xavier? After 2 more movies and 280 TV
episodes, perhaps. No, you're Jean-Luc Picard. That's how
millions know you; that's the character that millions enjoyed,
because you did a good job of portraying a civilized,
intelligent explorer who projected the values of Western Civ
into the inky void while confronting the baffling nuances of
worlds we have yet to imagine. Many of us aging dweebs enjoyed
ST: TNG because you invested the silly thing with gravity and
brains, and our wives loved it as well: that shiny skull worked
for them big time. In a few years NASA will have a crop of
engineers whose desire to put robots on other planets was first
sparked by the opening fly-by sequence of TNG. They thought you
were on their side. Silly people?

"I would like to see us get this place right first before we
have the arrogance to put significantly flawed civilizations out
onto other planets," Stewart said.

Oh: right. Actor talking. "Get this place right." What would
that look like, exactly? And how would we know? If in 2079
there's one monomanical Marxist sub-saharan leader starving his
people for political gain, does this obligate other nations to
shut down their rocketry programs until the guy dies and crop
production returns to pre-tyrant levels? "Arrogance to put
significantly flawed civilizations out onto other planets." So
it's arrogant to put Americans on Mars, because our myriad
"significant" flaws would somehow contaminate the gentle Martian
polity that reigns today. The 63-year-old British actor says
manned missions are too expensive. "It would take up so many
resources, which I personally feel should be directed at our own
planet," he said.

Making movies takes up many resources which could be directed at
our own planet. For that matter, millions of pounds are spent in
England annually for theater productions - I propose a ten-year
moratorium on all stage shows, with the money distributed
directly to our own planet. And after we have gotten things
right on this planet we can get back to such frivolous luxuries
as theater. What's that, you say - theater employs many people?
Theater inspires imaginations, adds to our store of knowledge,
helps us define what it means to be human?

And exploring other words doesn't, eh. Noted: the future of
humanity shall consist not in getting this place right but
watching angry Pinter screeds about that wretched meat we know
as our own flawed species. And when we leave the theater we can
look up and behold an infinite world we must never pollute.

And this from an Englishman! If he'd been around when first the
Brits put out to sea he'd be a wet blanket on the whole idea of
boats.

I realize that this now opens me to charges that I am a
basement-dwelling pasty-skinned blobbo uberdork whose knowledge
of female sexuality is grounded entirely in "Mudd's Women," but
for the record: I live upstairs, it 's pale season where I live,
and I'm about seven Atkins-assisted days away from a six-pack.
But I am a dork.

And Patrick Stewart has now become T. J. Hooker. I know him not.

-----

Time to hit the reset button, Pat...

alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net
...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...






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               Re: New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:16:27 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:03:11 -0400
Subject: Re: New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography - Ledger


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:59:18 -0700
>Subject: (SK) New entry for SKEPTIC Bibliography (Burton & Grandy)

>http://www.csicop.org/bib/668

>-----------------------------

>Magic, Mystery, And Science: The Occult in Western Civilization
>Dan Burton and David Grandy

>http://iupress.indiana.edu/books/0-253-21656-7.shtml

<snip>

>Skeptics will find much of this book irritating, but it is also
>informative and worth reading.

>The authors, a historian and a philosopher, give a sympathetic
>history of the Western occult tradition, contrasting it to
>scientific rationalism and orthodox religion alike.

Hi Terry,

Isn't the term "orthodox religion" an oxymoron? One wonders why
the terms occult and religion are viewed as separate entities
when in fact they are the same. It amazes me that religion[s]
gets legitimacy that is totally unearned or deserved. Think
rather politics with an unprovable/laughable mysticism thrown in
to garner greater power over the masses.


Don Ledger











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              Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -

From: Colm Kelleher - NIDS <nids.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:33:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:05:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -


NIDS obtained permission to publish the entire McNally research
article on the NIDS web site at:

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/spacealiens.pdf

Regarding List member's reaction to this paper, some of which I
have read:

The journal Psychological Science is one of the more prestigious
journals in psychology and is also one of the flagship journals
of the American Psychological Society. It is read by thousands
of professional and research psychologists worldwide.
Cumulatively Psychological Science readers hold tens of millions
of dollars in research grants from NIMH and other grant giving
bodies.

My hunch is that the data in this paper will surprise many
Psychological Science readers in the  psychology research
community, since it greatly undermines their common perception
that abductees are merely attention seekers, charlatans etc who
want nothing more than to get their 15 minutes of fame. The data
in Dr McNally's paper are saying that the responses of PTSD
victims and abductees are almost indistinguishable and will
therefore demolish some commonly-held stereotypes. I believe
that Dr MacNally's paper may stimulate members of the
psychological research community to take the next research step:
to use the tools of fMRI and other brain-imaging techniques to
take these (to their readers, very surprising) data to the next
level. That is precisely what is needed in this field.

As such, I believe Dr McNally's paper is a positive contribution.


Regards

Colm Kelleher
NIDS








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                   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:31:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:05:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Shell


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:39:19 -0500
>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:26:58 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>She always thought those large, black, wrap-around
>>eyes were ridiculous, because unless they were some kind of
>>compound eye, like an insect, they really wouldn't "work" very
>>good.

>>She also knew enough about anatomy to question whether those
>>large heads could be adequately supported by those skinny little
>>necks. Something to think about from a functional/anatomical
>>perspective.

>This universe is large enough and has been around long enough to
>try a few things of which your ex-wife may be unaware.
>Everything she's thought of and all of that she hasn't has
>occurred (or will) somewhere in its near timeless expanses and
>we'd grow up a little bit as a species if we copped to that. I'd
>suggest that it is very likely that she didn't know near enough
>about anatomy, Tim, for her to make anything but the rank call
>of a clueless dilettante regarding what has gone on in her
>microscopic sliver of time and space.

Certainly, no one knows everything they don't know. But there
are certain constraints put in place by physics. There are
certain variations within the constraints, but if aliens see
like we do, they pretty much have to have eyes that look like
ours, or a dog's. The descriptions, however, make them sound
like some of them have eyes similar to octopus eyes.

We need to get one of these things and find out for sure just
how they work. How can we set a trap?







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                  Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:45:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:07:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Kaeser


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:39:19 -0500
>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

<snip>

>This universe is large enough and has been around long enough to
>try a few things of which your ex-wife may be unaware.
>Everything she's thought of and all of that she hasn't has
>occurred (or will) somewhere in its near timeless expanses and
>we'd grow up a little bit as a species if we copped to that. I'd
>suggest that it is very likely that she didn't know near enough
>about anatomy, Tim, for her to make anything but the rank call
>of a clueless dilettante regarding what has gone on in her
>microscopic sliver of time and space. More to heaven and Earth
>and all that.....

I wouldn't get to hung up on this, but there are basic optical
characteristics that occur in what we would describe as an
"eye", which is probably the crux of this discussion.

Certainly an alien life form would most likely have a different
biological approach to vision, but if we're talking about a
lense that focuses the image on receptors, then we have to
either re-define how we view refraction, or the approach is
completely different. Wtih the understanding that this is based
only on annecdotal testimony, I would suspect the latter.


Steve









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                Bob Shell And The Fox Alien Autopsy TV Shows

From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:15:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:10:06 -0400
Subject: Bob Shell And The Fox Alien Autopsy TV Shows


To all List Members,

Please be aware that today I spoke with Robert (Bob) Kiviat, the
writer and producer of ALIEN AUTOPSY :  FACT OR FICTION ? which
was broadcast by Fox in l996. Bob has asked me to point out that
Bob Shell, recently mentioned on this list, was not involved nor
interviewed for any of these TV shows concerning the alleged
alien autopsy film. Bob Shell therefore has no connection with
the shows at all.


Regards,

Philip Mantle.



To all List Members,

Please be aware that today I spoke with Robert (Bob) Kiviat, the
writer and producer of ALIEN AUTOPSY :  FACT OR FICTION ? which
was broadcast by Fox in l996. Bob has asked me to point out that
Bob Shell, recently mentioned on this list, was not involved nor
interviewed for any of these TV shows concerning the alleged
alien autopsy film. Bob Shell therefore has no connection with
the shows at all.


Regards,

Philip Mantle.







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                        Bob Shell's Side Of The Story

From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:19:37 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:15:07 -0400
Subject: Bob Shell's Side Of The Story


I know Bob Shell and the criminal charges leveled against him
has recently been posted on this List.

To be honest I'm not sure that this List is the best place to
air such information.

Having said that, on a purely personal note, I've met Bob Shell
on a number of occasions and find it very hard to believe that
he could commit the crimes of which he has been accused. Bob has
my full support and as far as I'm concerned he is innocent until
proven guilty.

If anyone wants to see Bob Shell's side of the story concerning
the charges made against him, then please take a look at the web
site below. It is updated regularly.


Regards,

Philip Mantle







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                     Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Hayes

From: Teri Hayes <truthspupl.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:35:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:20:41 -0400
Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge - Hayes


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:11:43 +0000
>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 20:42:10 +0100
>>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>>From: Teri Hayes <truthspupl.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:24:10 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>>>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>Subject: Re: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>>>>From: Don Ecker <decker0726.nul>
>>>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:19:02 -0700
>>>>>Subject: J-Rod And The Challenge

>>>For instance, I have read and have been told by a couple
>>>different individuals that the series "StarGate SG1" is indeed
>>>based on a 'real' Stargate. I have also been told by a certain
>>>individual that it looks almost identical to that one. This is
>>>the same thing. The Government would simply say, "Do you really
>>>think that we would allow this television show to reveal such a
>>>valuable and volatile Military secret to the entire world?"

>>>The answer to that is yes, because it creates plausible
>>>deniability and the best place to hide anything is in plain
>>>sight.

>>Interesting thought and one I have to say that has struck me in
>>the past. It would explain a lot of things. Then tie it in with
>>the work Graham Hancock has done and it begins to look real
>>neat. Of course, pure speculation, tut tut.

>Sorry I missed Josh Goldstein's comments (deleted in this post)
>on this "stargate" fantasy because I am sure, knowing Josh, that
>they were pertinent and pungent.

>So, if the Government is telling the truth, it is really lying
>and covering up, and if it is lying and covering up, it is/is
>not telling the truth. What mind-bending concepts. You win, they
>lose every time.

>As I learned in philosophy class long ago, it would also
>"explain a lot of things" if you postulate an all-powerful,
>inviisble green demon sitting in the corner and foiling you at
>every turn. I vote for the inviisble green demon. - Dick

>P.S. I 'have been told' all sorts of weird and illogical and
>off-the-wall things by people over the years. What a wonderful
>source to document anything you want to believe.

As I learned in philosophy class long ago, it would also
"explain a lot of things" if you postulate an all-powerful,
inviisble green demon sitting in the corner and foiling you at
every turn. I vote for the inviisble green demon. - Dick

P.S. I 'have been told' all sorts of weird and illogical and
off-the-wall things by people over the years. What a wonderful
source to document anything you want to believe

This post was 'speculative'. I do believe the Burisch tales at
this time, but the reason I say "at this time" is because I am
still researching. The reason I believe is based on information
both in favor and against the issue.

The bottom line is both veiws are inconclusive at this time but
the main things spoken against Dan Burisch are not his Theories
or even what he claims to have done. Most of the debunking
evidence is nothing more than ignorant requests for a seeming
nonexistant paper trail that is far too easily done away with.
These requests for a paper trail don't do a thing for
discrediting an individual unless it is coupled with inaccurate
Theories etc.

I don't know about the Stargate issue and I was only using it as
an example. Who knows? Not me.

But as far as the Plausible Deniability it is indeed all around
us. Paranoid? Yes and No. I just want the Truth. That's all. It
is very easy to do away with paper trails. I have seen it done.
It is done every single day. I once met a gentleman who was a
Bounty Hunter. He had a Handicapped License plate on his car.
This is highly illegal unless you are handicapped. He, of
course, was not. But in order to facilitate his duties this was
secured for him through the Government. This is just the tip of
a large iceburg and is right on up there with $500 hammers and
what not.

There is also the point that the Government may be funding this
research but it is not neccesarily "In Charge" of it. Nor is it
likely to have complete knowledge of what is going on within
certain projects. It's not about the Goverment. Just clandestine
activities that are perpetrated and/or funded by the Government
is some way, shape or form.

The key frase is, "Need to know". Not even the President himself
get's informed of the majority of projects that are being
carried out.

I choose not to be a Sheep and to see what is right in front of
my face, and take it with a grain (or two) of salt, whether I
believe it is credible or not.

All those weirdos telling the off the wall and illogical things
just keep life interesting, even thou much of it is just plain
and simple cow chips!

As far as an invisible green demon sitting in the corner, I
don't have one, do you? If you do, could I borrow him?


Teri Hayes
truthspupl.nul







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                  Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:36:18 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:27:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Ledger


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:10:50 -0700
>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:26:58 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 17:53:38 -0400
>>>Subject: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>>That references to the greys having big black wrap around eyes
>>>in the J-Rod posts makes me wonder. I have some doubt that
>>>such big black wrap-arounds are biologically likely. More likely
>>>they are the greys' version of our sunglasses?

>>My ex-wife is a graphic designer/illustrator and during her
>>schooling she learned quite a bit about why and how eyes work
>>and why they are shaped the way they are. Why they have to be
>>a certain shape in order to pick up certain colors and be in
>>focus, etc. She always thought those large, black, wrap-around
>>eyes were ridiculous, because unless they were some kind of
>>compound eye, like an insect, they really wouldn't "work" very
>>good.

>>She also knew enough about anatomy to question whether those
>>large heads could be adequately supported by those skinny little
>>necks. Something to think about from a functional/anatomical
>>perspective.

>Tim,

>In the vernacular of one of my favorite aliens, "it is not
>logical to try and interpret 'alien physiology' through 'human'
>explication."
>Frank


Brilliant. I would imagine that would work right across the
board, Frank. Technology, physiology and their governance. To my
mind it explains much and tells us nothing. Great line though.


Best,

Don








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                   Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Toal

From: Ted Toal <ttoal.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:08:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:29:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Toal


It seems to me we should assume that all features of alien
bodies, including the big black eyes, are _engineered_, not
"natural." Humans themselves are not all that far away from
being able to engineer our bodies at will (less than a hundred
years?). Aliens capable of interstellar travel would have long,
long ago mastered the ability to manipulate their genes in any
way they desired. Surely, if an alien were to choose to travel
through space in a physical body, it would do so in a body
expressly designed for space travel, wouldn't you think?

Perhaps the eyes are optimized for superior vision in deep
space, with enormous light-gathering power and far higher
resolution in the frequency domain than our eyes.

On the other hand, it also seems reasonable that aliens would
present themselves on earth using bodies optimized for the
earthly environment. But who is to say that those big black eyes
aren't earth-optimized?

As for artificial coverings over the big black eyes, humans use
sunglasses because we are not yet capable of modifying our eyes
so that sunglasses are unnecessary.

There are enough questions about whether or not "grey" aliens
actually exist to provide room for speculating that maybe they
exist only in the minds of the experiencers, perhaps planted
there by alien beings who have some reason for wanting humans to
believe that such grey aliens exist.


Ted Toal







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              Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 21:14:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:39:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:15:28 -0500
>Subject: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged

>From "The Bleat," date and author unknown.....

>-----

>Happy Screedy Thursday to you all. It's been a great day, busy,
>filled with nifty heartwarming domestic moments and odd non-
>polarizing revelations... all of which will have to wait for
>tomorrow. I have a craw full today, I do. Let me vent before I
>sleep. Happy fun-ball thoughts tomorrow. Now: le bile.

>Patrick Stewart jumped the shark. Snagged his foot caught in the
>beast's mouth on the way over, too.

>Actor Patrick Stewart - better known as Capt. Jean-Luc Picard of
>"Star Trek: The Next Generation" - says he thinks humans have no
>business traveling in space.

<snip>

Hello Alfred,

Being of bald pate, and with a corrugated head, not unlike the
Klingon captian in, I believe, Star Trek 6 - I can't quote
Shakepeare, verbatum in English or the original Klingon.

Stewart hasn't the foggiest idea, he may be the one who inspires
someone to: "go where no one has gone before." I hope and pray
he lives to see 90 something, a 45-year-old bald-headed,
commander on Mars, at lift off to return to Earth, say the
word: "Engage!"


GT McCoy
Oh, by the way, may that ship be called the USS Enterprise.







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                 Re: Fairy Circles Vs. Fairy Rings - Colvin

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 23:18:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:43:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Fairy Circles Vs. Fairy Rings - Colvin


Forwarding permission was given by William R. Corliss.

Source: Science Frontiers, No. 154
        July-August 2004, p. 3 & 4

http://www.science-frontiers.com


GEOLOGY

Fairy Circles Vs. Fairy Rings

First of all, we must distinguish between fairy circles and
fairy rings. The latter are ever-expanding rings of *mushrooms*
seen in grassy areas in temperate climates. They are so-named
because it was once imagined that fairies danced in them! In
contrast, fairy cirlces are composed of rings of tall, lush
*grass* which enclose circles of barren soil. The fairy circles
are embedded in a sea of sparse desert vegetation. Theories
accounting for their formation abound.

Fairy circles are seen in impressive profusion along the western
fringes of Africa's Namib Desert. A band of pockmarked
vegetation stretches 2400 kilometers (1500 miles) from southern
Angola to South Africa's Orange River. In diameter, fairy
circles range between 3 and 10 meters (6-33 feet).

One would think that the origin of fairy circles would have been
decided long ago. It hasn't! Three explanations are prominent
but admittedly inadequate.

* Termites, which snap up all grass seeds falling inside the
circles.

* Radioactive patches of soil due to undefined events or
processes.

* Toxins left behind by the poisonous milkbush plant.

None of these theories have panned out under scientific
scrutiny; fairies may be the best answer!

Two additional facts are pertinent:

* Desert grasses planted in the barren soil of the circles soon
withers--- a sign that there either *is* something toxic in the
soil *or*, some substance vital to plant growth is missing in
the circles although strangely abundant in the surrounding
verdant rings of grass.

* The diameters of circles measured 22 years ago have not
changed.

(Coghlan, Andy; "Blame Them on the Fairies," *New Scientist*, p. 12,
April 3, 2004. Van Rooyen, Gretel; "Mouldy Theory," *New Scientist*,
p. 30, May 8, 2004. Anonymous; "Desert Highland Discs," *Fortean Times*;
#185:4, July 2004. Anonymous; BBC News
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3587431.stm
March 31, 2004.
Cr. H.H. Hendry)


[Science Frontiers is a bimonthly collection of digests of
scientific anomalies in the current literature. Published by the
Sourcebook Project, P.O. Box 107, Glen Arm, MD 21057. Annual
subscription: $8.00.]


--

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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                 Re: Bob Shell's Side Of The Story - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:32:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:46:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Bob Shell's Side Of The Story - Kaeser


>From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:19:37 +0100
>Subject: Bob Shell's Side Of The Story

>I know Bob Shell and the criminal charges leveled against him
>has recently been posted on this List.

>To be honest I'm not sure that this List is the best place to
>air such information.

>Having said that, on a purely personal note, I've met Bob Shell
>on a number of occasions and find it very hard to believe that
>he could commit the crimes of which he has been accused. Bob has
>my full support and as far as I'm concerned he is innocent until
>proven guilty.

>If anyone wants to see Bob Shell's side of the story concerning
>the charges made against him, then please take a look at the web
>site below. It is updated regularly.


I think the URL for current information was clipped. It can be
found at http://www.bobshell.com/update.html

For what it's worth, I had also been in contact with Bob during
the early days of the AA investigation, and I also find it hard
to believe that Bob could commit such an act. I trust that the
truth will come out and he will be exonerated of the crime.
 That being said, I also believe this may not be the best forum
for commentary on this.

Steve








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                 Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:08:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:50:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Lehmberg


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:31:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:39:19 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:26:58 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>>She always thought those large, black, wrap-around
>>>eyes were ridiculous, because unless they were some kind of
>>>compound eye, like an insect, they really wouldn't "work" very
>>>good.

>>>She also knew enough about anatomy to question whether those
>>>large heads could be adequately supported by those skinny little
>>>necks. Something to think about from a functional/anatomical
>>>perspective.

>>This universe is large enough and has been around long enough to
>>try a few things of which your ex-wife may be unaware.
>>Everything she's thought of and all of that she hasn't has
>>occurred (or will) somewhere in its near timeless expanses and
>>we'd grow up a little bit as a species if we copped to that. I'd
>>suggest that it is very likely that she didn't know near enough
>>about anatomy, Tim, for her to make anything but the rank call
>>of a clueless dilettante regarding what has gone on in her
>>microscopic sliver of time and space.

>Certainly, no one knows everything they don't know.

The only real certainty in the preceding is a certainty of
understatement. This certainty is certainly an assertion
requiring no citation. Add on to that that much shall _not_ be
known for the foreseeable future and that there remains after
that much that likely _can't_ be known. What remains is an
arrogance that we know enough to make an educated call on that
which many won't credit in the first place... even begin to look
at and investigate because of fear and complacency in the
second, and the obligatory acceptance (facilitated by the first
two) to _stop_ looking in the third. Gotta keep that third eye
squeegeed, I think, so we can be ready to make that next step on
the subsurface rocks in the paranormal pond.

>But there
>are certain constraints put in place by physics.

Well we certainly have our physics wired and well understood,
and I'm sure our mastery of all things physical will assure us
our dominance and superiority in the galaxy with little
difficulty. <woo - ...breaker got warm on that one! [g].>

>There are
>certain variations within the constraints, but if aliens see
>like we do, they pretty much have to have eyes that look like
>ours, or a dog's. The descriptions, however, make them sound
>like some of them have eyes similar to octopus eyes.

They might - or maybe they've got better eyes than they had and
have them wired right into the 'positronic' neural nets they've
also re-engineered, but I don't think if you're not sure where
the constraints are you can even allude to variations that may
or may not be contained within them. With respect, that's a
little like an insect dreaming that he's a man.

>We need to get one of these things and find out for sure just
>how they work. How can we set a trap?

Vivisection? Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of respect in
that... maybe we'd be better employed to detect _their_ traps
and mazes for _us_. ...Provide for demonstration and
justification why _we_ shouldn't be vivisected, perhaps.
Remember, if they can get here (and more qualified individuals
than you and I, with rational arguments that STOMP the
competition, believe they _are_ here), they can kick our ass.
It's highly unlikely that we're the center of this universe,
Tim. That we are, or even might be, is just an arrogance of very
weakly supported (unsupported actually) human hubris, is my
suspicion.


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.






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              Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:16:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:51:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 21:14:55 -0700
>Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged
>

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:15:28 -0500
>>Subject: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged

>>From "The Bleat," date and author unknown.....

><snip>

>Being of bald pate, and with a corrugated head, not unlike the
>Klingon captian in, I believe, Star Trek 6 - I can't quote
>Shakepeare, verbatum in English or the original Klingon.

>Stewart hasn't the foggiest idea, he may be the one who inspires
>someone to: "go where no one has gone before." I hope and pray
>he lives to see 90 something, a 45-year-old bald-headed,
>commander on Mars, at lift off to return to Earth, say the
>word: "Engage!"

>GT McCoy
>Oh, by the way, may that ship be called the USS Enterprise.

That would be fitting, respectful, and intelligent, I believe.
Good post!

Engage!

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

...content to read, content to hear, content to see.....

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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              Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:21:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:54:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 21:14:55 -0700
>Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:15:28 -0500
>>Subject: Patrick Stewart Jumped The Shark, And Snagged

>>From "The Bleat," date and author unknown.....

>>-----

>>Happy Screedy Thursday to you all. It's been a great day, busy,
>>filled with nifty heartwarming domestic moments and odd non-
>>polarizing revelations... all of which will have to wait for
>>tomorrow. I have a craw full today, I do. Let me vent before I
>>sleep. Happy fun-ball thoughts tomorrow. Now: le bile.

>>Patrick Stewart jumped the shark. Snagged his foot caught in the
>>beast's mouth on the way over, too.

>>Actor Patrick Stewart - better known as Capt. Jean-Luc Picard of
>>"Star Trek: The Next Generation" - says he thinks humans have no
>>business traveling in space.

><snip>

>Being of bald pate, and with a corrugated head, not unlike the
>Klingon captian in, I believe, Star Trek 6 - I can't quote

>Stewart hasn't the foggiest idea, he may be the one who inspires
>someone to: "go where no one has gone before." I hope and pray
>he lives to see 90 something, a 45-year-old bald-headed,
>commander on Mars, at lift off to return to Earth, say the
>word: "Engage!"


I think that Patrick Stewart's stance is reasonable, given the
fact that he's only an actor performing a role that someone else
has defined and written. "X-Files" series Creator/Producer
Chris Carter has expressed a complete lack of belief in the
paranormal, but that didn't stop him from using the field to
produce a series that lasted nine years.

IMO, Mankind should continue its quest for knowledge by
travelling to the planets, stars and beyond. But I also know
many people who would rather we solve problems on Earth before
spending the vast sums needed. It's really a mistake to think
that the predominate view on this "list" with regard to space
travel is really shared by all.


Steve








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                  Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 06:47:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:57:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Warren


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:36:18 -0300
>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:10:50 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

<snip>

>>In the vernacular of one of my favorite aliens, "it is not
>>logical to try and interpret 'alien physiology' through 'human'
>>explication."

>>Frank

>Brilliant. I would imagine that would work right across the
>board, Frank. Technology, physiology and their governance. To my
>mind it explains much and tells us nothing. Great line though.


Don, Tim, Et Al,

To be more specific, e.g., how many times have you heard, "they
can't be 'here', because they can't get here, from there." This
assumes that any and all extraterrestrials "have our same
technology, but are also at our same level of evolution in said
technology." Another little ditty, "why would any aliens come
all this way and not make their selves known to the world, where
are they?" (Fermi's Paradox); or making assumptions on "alien
physiology" using our own as a model.

To sum it up, until, more is known about our visitors, we can't
use "human logic" to explain an "alien agenda"; we can't use
"human physiology" to define "alien physiology."


Regards,

Frank









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                  Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 07:04:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:00:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes? - Gehrman


>From: Ted Toal <ttoal.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:08:42 -0700
>Subject: Re: Big Black Wrap-Around Eyes?

>It seems to me we should assume that all features of alien
>bodies, including the big black eyes, are _engineered_, not
>"natural." Humans themselves are not all that far away from
>being able to engineer our bodies at will (less than a hundred
>years?). Aliens capable of interstellar travel would have long,
>long ago mastered the ability to manipulate their genes in any
>way they desired. Surely, if an alien were to choose to travel
>through space in a physical body, it would do so in a body
>expressly designed for space travel, wouldn't you think?

>Perhaps the eyes are optimized for superior vision in deep
>space, with enormous light-gathering power and far higher
>resolution in the frequency domain than our eyes.

<snip>

Ted, List, EBK,

For folks who wish to get a better understanding of "grays",
 and how they look and how the eye-pieces cover the eyes and
seem to function should simply view the Alien Autopsy footage.

There we see the creature before and after the black eye-pieces
are removed. Their eyes look fairly human except they seem to be
sunk deeper into their sockets than ours and they have heavy
brow ridges which exaggerate the size of the eyes.

The black eye coverings were said by Col. Corso to be some type
of night vision enhancers.

The creature in the footage is the same type of "Alien" that
abducted Betty Hill. At least that's what she told me. So if
grays "exist only in the minds of the experiencers" what is on
the autopsy table.


Ed








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              Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:10:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:01:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory -


>From: Colm Kelleher - NIDS <nids.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:33:52 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Tales Offer Clues on Memory

>NIDS obtained permission to publish the entire McNally research
>article on the NIDS web site at:

>http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/spacealiens.pdf

>Regarding List member's reaction to this paper, some of which I
>have read:

Mr. Kelleher,

>The journal Psychological Science is one of the more prestigious
>journals in psychology and is also one of the flagship journals
>of the American Psychological Society. It is read by thousands
>of professional and research psychologists worldwide.
>Cumulatively Psychological Science readers hold tens of millions
>of dollars in research grants from NIMH and other grant giving
>bodies.

>My hunch is that the data in this paper will surprise many
>Psychological Science readers in the  psychology research
>community, since it greatly undermines their common perception
>that abductees are merely attention seekers, charlatans etc who
>want nothing more than to get their 15 minutes of fame.

This is certainly a "piece of enlightenment," speaking only for
myself; I was unaware that such a prestigious body, as that of
the "American Psychological Society" held a "common perception"
that "abductees are merely attention seekers, charlatans etc who
want nothing more than to get their 15 minutes of fame."

I'm sure abductees who are seeking help trying to cope with
their experience from those in the field (psychologists) will
find that statement most comforting.

>The data
>in Dr McNally's paper are saying that the responses of PTSD
>victims and abductees are almost indistinguishable and will
>therefore demolish some commonly-held stereotypes. I believe
>that Dr MacNally's paper may stimulate members of the
>psychological research community to take the next research step:
>to use the tools of fMRI and other brain-imaging techniques to
>take these (to their readers, very surprising) data to the next
>level. That is precisely what is needed in this field.

>As such, I believe Dr McNally's paper is a positive contribution.

>Regards

>Colm Kelleher
>NIDS

Hopefully the members of the "American Psychological Society,"
i.e., the readers of the "The Journal Psychological Science"
will note that any conclusion(s) of Dr. McKnally's study is
flawed, because the components of the experiment are flawed. He
has separated "PTSD victims" from "abductee victims" without
merit, and I propose, scientifically speaking, that until he can
prove that the events described by an "abductee victim" have not
occurred, then his protocol is flawed, therefore; any
conclusions based on this study would have to be re-evaluated.

He, like his colleagues, as you have pointed out are biased,
which of course is fine, when reading a journal, however;
allowing bias into a study or an experiment certainly negates
the "science" from it.


Respectfully,

Frank Warren