Interesting, these two! They both embody the essential characteristics of the White Nationalist movement. That is, the two opposing points on how to procede.

Norcal believes that the social organization of the Jew is superior to modern Aryan social organization because the former's is cohesive like none other and like the Borg of Star Trek fame cannot be defeated using conventional methods.

Norcal goes on to state that attacking the ZOG System openly is a strategy that will provoke open, active genocide against our Race, something which we may not be able to survive.

Resistance is futile according to Norcal and the only way to combat ZOG must be in the form of disconnection from the System in every way possible. Moving out of the way of the inevitable superhuman jew vortices of death & destruction in the cities and other non-White areas is the only effective strategy we White Nationalists can muster!

Now we come to Glenn Miller! Miller has a warriors attitude. He thinks that get Up, Stand Up! Don't give up the fight is the way to go! Stand your ground, but more, attack in a great contest in the face of suffering, frustration and Subjugation!

Vanquish the enemy and take total mastery over your foe, says Miller! Keep going and don't stop until you are victorious and have subdued the hostile power!

Miller thinks that tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered and that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly. It is dearness only that gives everything its value and hiding out like a rat waiting in the nearest sewer ain't an option for Glenn Miller!

So who should we follow my White brothers? Are we White men with a history that has never been seen before or are we White women cowering in fear?

Do any of you believe that God Almighty would give up His people to destruction, or leave them unsupportedly to perish? A people who have so earnestly and so repeatedly sought to avoid the calamities of war, by every decent method which wisdom could invent!!!

Has He relinquished the government of the world, and given us up to the care of devils and common murderers? I don't think so!

It is surprising to see how easily and rapidly we panic. All White nations and ages have been subject to them. Yet panics, in some cases, have their uses. They produce as much good as hurt. Their duration is always short. The mind soon grows through them, and acquires a firmer habit than before. But their peculiar advantage is, that they are the touchstones of sincerity and hypocrisy, and bring things and men to light, which might otherwise have lain forever undiscovered.

So what path do you choose, White man?

Me....I'll stand with Glenn Miller!!!

Norcal believes that the social organization of the Jew is superior to modern Aryan social organization because the former's is cohesive like none other and like the Borg of Star Trek fame cannot be defeated using conventional methods.


Jewish social cohesion is ridiculously strong. It's hyperethnocentricism. Yuck.

Coupled with excessively high Jewish verbal IQ, and well, you've got someone who's apt to play puppet master.



...

Various thoughts on this, perhaps disjointed:

Yes the jew, as Anima says, seems made to play puppet master. He is the perfect nemesis for us.

But I believe the enemy is also always one's greatest teacher. Which is not necessarily to say we will learn by imitating him, just that we have a test before us, and something to learn from it, which will make us (whichever whites survive) stronger and better--better perhaps, and in a better position to fulfill our destiny, than any whites who have come before.

And while I don't know the way out for us--I am still learning, as are we all--I do believe there is a way. We just have to find it.

Some say God never gives you more than you can handle. I tend to beleive that. I can't believe we have been forsaken.

I suspect that when the "way" comes, it will be in a form we can't now anticipate.

I think both actually make valid points. I could see each scenario happening. Just because you "retreat" doesnt mean that you are a "coward". Run away and you'll live to fight another day.

Come on guys...elementary stuff.

Some of you watch too many movies and have gotten caught up with this "hero" nonsense.

So whose side is the best to take? I dont really know. Like I said, I could imagine both scenarios.

Resistance is futile according to Norcal and the only way to combat ZOG must be in the form of disconnection from the System in every way possible.

Although he does not state resistance is futile it is not unlike the strategy Kievsky has now adapted.

[QUOTE=Rounder]Thanks Steve, for starting this thread and for your position, as well. Though I doubt many will muster the courage to take as strong a stand as you have.

I'm simply saying we should go all out to make VNN's tabloid a big success in EXPOSING THE JEWS to as many lemmings as we possibly can, while at the same time coaxing them onto VNNforum and main page, where they'll become more and more jew-wise, and hopefully join our EXPOSE THE JEW efforts in ever increasing numbers. Simple as that, really.

Then, later on we should form a political party comprising VNN's leaders, and those VNN'ers whose personal vulnerabilities do not prohibit them from actively supporting it, while the vulnerable ones support our party financially,distributing VNN's tabloid, and otherwise "spreading the word". If we begin now to plan our first Political Convention next summer, and if there's enthusiasm for it by VNN'ers, many other WNs from other forums and groups will decide to join with us physically at our convention. Coupla weeks prior to the convention, I propose that we solicit locals to attend, as well, thru the distribution of perhaps 200,000 copies of our tabloid which invites all patriotic White folks to attend; thru ads in local small town newspapers; and thru short inexpensive radio ads on a half dozen or so, small town radio stations. (All in the vicinity of central Missouri where the Convention will be held inside a large Convention Center and at a nearby park/recreation area).

I won't address Norcal's "strategy" here. He can. But it's obvious to me anyway, what it is. And "what it is" is absolutely not an acceptable alternative at all. Thanks again, Steve. Hopefully, we can all discuss this issue without resorting to "change the subject" or name-calling verbal tactics which causes confusion, distraction, and deception.[/QUOTE]

You know Glen I had been losing heart for a while but since I've been reading your posts my spirit has picked up. I really like your can-do attitude. For my part you, Will and Steve have all proven you can complete something really difficult and see it through to the end by getting your Beret. Finishing a difficult task is all in your head. We need tenacity like that. I wish I had did what you guys did when I was 18 but I had an older brother who was in a line company in Vietnam who told me if I volunteered for any hero stuff he was going to kick my ass. So when you're 18 and your brother is 35 and he beats you over the head, you tend to listen to him. I like the VNN and tabloid and will buy and distribute copies. I'll definitely be at a VNN political convention if we have one.

I do agree with NorCal that living near or in one of the large Nigger/Hispanic breeding centers is a bad idea.

Fundamental Principles Of Northwest Migration

I. The White race in North America is in danger of literal, physical extinction. If current destructive demographic trends continue, White people will be a minority in the United States and Canada by the year 2050, and we will have vanished completely from North America by 2100. The real point of no return, however, is far closer. By the year 2020, the median AGE of the White population of North America will have become so high that we will no longer be capable of reproducing ourselves in sufficient numbers to overcome the tide of mud-colored Third World immigration.

II. We as a people have wasted the past six decades on pointless, futile and impotent right-wing and kosher conservative organizations and strategies. The overwhelming majority of these past organizations and movements refused to recognize the vital central importance of race in all issues, and they refused to recognize the urgent need for state power in order to preserve the existence of our race. The few attempts which have been made to resist racial extinction by groups and personalities of an openly National Socialist or racialist nature have been led by men who were stupid, incompetent, dishonest, or some combination of all three. The result of the past sixty years of right-wing failure and impotence is that we are now out of time.

III. There is only one strategy remaining to us which may be able to secure the existence of our people and a future for White children. Our last remaining hope to stave off extinction is the establishment of a sovereign and independent nation on the continent of North America for White people only.

IV. Considerations of demographics, economics, and a history of commitment and martyrdom in the persons of Bob Matthews, Sam and Vicky Weaver, and Richard Butler dictate that the territory for this sovereign Aryan republic must lie in the Pacific Northwest.

V. The first step towards the establishment of the Northwest American Republic is a mass migration of the existing racially aware White community to the states of Idaho, Oregon, and Washington. It is a matter of the utmost urgency that you make this vitally important commitment to the future of our people, that you do so now, and that you come to the Homeland with only the minimum delay necessary to raise sufficient funds and put your affairs in order.

Ok I'm waiting, should I duck? Lets see how thick my skin is.

I won't be there, of course. The myths and widespread ignorance surrounding my 1987 plea bargain will result in my appearance being too distracting and divisive among WNs, therefore I'd become more of a debit than an asset. Many would refuse to come, just to spite me.

Well it's easy for people who have never popped up on ZOG's radar screen to judge those who have put their ass on the line and ended up looking at life in a ZOG Gulag. I've seen people deride Hale and Doles for same thing. I for one would hope you reconsider and show up.

[SIZE=5]Norcal places so much emphasis on being a family man(to the exclusion of just about everything else) you have to wonder why he has AH as his avatar. How many children did Uncle Wolf have Norcal? [/SIZE]

[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]No, he has the fool's attitude. Like General Custer. He believes his ego can wish things into being, that he can overcome strategic & tactical circumstances that no sane leader would overlook or willfully ignore.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

The comparison between Miller and Custer is disingenious on your part but I'll play along.

General Custer Custer did unexpectedly well in the Civil War. He fought in the First Battle of Bull Run, and served with panache and distinction in the Virginia and Gettysburg campaigns. His fearless aggression in battle earned him the respect of his commanding generals and increasingly put him in the public eye. His cavalry units played a critical role in forcing the retreat of Confederate General Robert E. Lee's forces.

General Custer never lost a battle until the Little Big Horn. Custers defeat there prompted the US army to marshall its forces and within a year all of the Indian tribes were forced to surrender or were killed!

General Custer had blue eyes, his hair and mustache of golden tint. He was a man of immense strength and endurance. He used neither liquors nor tobacco, his physical condition was perfect through all the hardships of his life. He showed deference to the aged, he honored womankind, he was fond of children, and devoted to animals and you dishonor this fine example of Aryan manhood with your vile filth and cowardly implications!







[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]Implying that I want to "give up" is Semitically dishonest.[/QUOTE]

I'm not implying it...I'm saying it! You sir, are a coward!

[QUOTE=norcalnative1971]The eventually victorious commander always reserves retreat as an option.[/QUOTE]

Not according to Americas greatest general! General Pattons motto was attack..attack...attack. He never retreated unlike you who reserves retreat as not only an option but the prime directive!

[QUOTE=norcalnative1971]Like General Custer, Miller fails to comprehend the dire situation we find ourselves in militarily. He either hopes things aren't really the way they are, or he is too dense (due to cognitive capacity or due to sheer arrogance) to recognize they are the way things are.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Norcals theory of warfare: If you can lose your head when all about you are keeping theirs, then blame somebody and call them arrogant.




[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]"Vanquish the Enemy" with WHICH "divisions"? General Miller is fanatasizing about non-existent...and never to be...armies of Aryans fighting currently extant opposing forces twenty times our theoretical numbers.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Twenty times our number?? Pray tell o' mighty Norcal....how can several million jews conquer America, or subdue even a single state? The thing cannot be, unless we sit down and suffer them to do it.




[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]In the end, though, if Miller suceeds in implementing his fantasy "revolution," he'll end up just like Custer, dead, with his dick and balls cut off and shoved in his mouth.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Sounds like something a jew would say!




[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]Are you a fool? Do you have even a glimpse of the horrors we are going to face? My strategy recognizes that the Remnant of our Race is going to soon face the worst challenges we have faced for thousands of years...perhaps ever. Many, if not most of us will die, probably even me, of hardships which will be consequential to the Dark Ages we are about to enter.[/QUOTE]

Geeze! What a drama queen. Here's some advice, boy. Grow a fuckin pair!

[QUOTE=norcalnative1971]Our survival through "my plan" will be one of the greatest accomplishments our Race ever made.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

LOL! And you call Miller arrogant?





[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZEPanic?

What is the mark of panic? Lashing out without regard to reality, as Miller wants to do, or coldly calculating a plan for the distant future?[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Your "coldly calculating a plan for the distant future" consists of running away and hiding out and slamming anybody who thinks otherwise!




[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]Let us know if you still feel this way when you're sober. ;) [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Had I been drunk when I started this thread I would have used those really annoying giant fonts you use to make myself look overly important, boy!

[QUOTE=Augustus Sutter]You know Glen I had been losing heart for a while but since I've been reading your posts my spirit has picked up. I really like your can-do attitude. For my part you, Will and Steve have all proven you can complete something really difficult and see it through to the end by getting your Beret. Finishing a difficult task is all in your head. We need tenacity like that. [/QUOTE]

Just to clear things up AS, I wasn't Green Beret. I was US Army-Airborne(Red Beret and I never did like those faggoty looking caps, heh!)

I was also never in Vietnam, to young at the time.

Cheers!

[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]Several million, actually.

Neither you nor I nor especially Glenn Custer are Adolf Hitler. We are not in a position where the entire country's children were ours.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
AH gave up family life for the life of the full-time political activist ; yet you would denounce anyone who made the same decision today-in effect because the odds are too great. GLR abandoned his half-Icelandic children for the same reason Hitler never had any children. Would the world be a better place today if Rockwell had gone into obscurity and simply raised a few more Aryan children-and never his left his example and his body of work to future generations?

You can name the Jew all you want. You can show all the proof. But it wont change a damn thing because ZOG makes the rules. How many Amerikwans read? All the information is out there! But no, ZOG doesnt have to worry because the Amerikwans will never look it at it or bother with any of it no matter how much proof you provide in whatever way possible, because thats simply a "bad" thing by ZOG's rules. The Amerikwans are going to do whatever ZOG tells it.

[QUOTE=Rounder]But you did in fact jump out of perfectly good airplanes while they were in good flight, now didn't you? And like me, with your ass all puckered up and biting your britches spasmodically, and our knees too weak to make vigorous exits. Aha!!! Remember, don't ya? [/QUOTE]

I never had a problem with my ass puckering, Glenn. Just a really really bad urge to wet my pants!



[QUOTE=Rounder](We had the old T-10s back in the early 60s, Steve. No way to steer those suckers. Just went where the wind carried your ass. The MC1-1s were much better, eh?)[/QUOTE]

Heck Glenn, I never ever heard of those planes! I went to jump school at Fort Benning and we leaped out of C-130's. To make things even more interesting I had to hit the silk with a Dragon anti-tank missile strapped to my ass. It's a good thing I was young and stupid at the time or I never would have done it!

[QUOTE=Steve B]Interesting, these two! They both embody the essential characteristics of the White Nationalist movement. That is, the two opposing points on how to procede.[/QUOTE]

This issue must be resolved before any kind of white Nationalist movement will move ahead, at all. When it is resolved, WNs can agree on more than race, and thus can present a comprehensive platform to the public.

[QUOTE=Rounder]Steve, you misunderstood. T-l0 was the name of the parachute we used when I went to jump school at Ft Bragg in 1960, and for several years afterwards. MC1-1s were what replaced the T-10s. We started out jumping out of the old C-119 with twin doors on each side of the rear of the aircraft, but by 1965 or so, we were jumping out of 130s, helicopters, and caribous (tail gate jumps). Ft Benning jump school had a 350-foot drop tower, did it not? A real ass chomper too, I'll wager.[/QUOTE]

Hahaha...the T-10 of course! Duh! We called them "streamers" cuz on the first jump we made one guys shute didn't fully open up and he went straight into the ground, never pulled his reserve. About 1 third of the guys in our training group quit after that.

I think the drop tower at Benning was 250 feet and not 350. There was also a mock door and 35-foot tower but its been 30 years and my memory is a little faded so I'm not quite sure.

I only made 5 jumps total and as I recall the last one was with a steerable chute. After jump school I was sent to Italy and I got in some trouble and me and the Army parted ways. I was only in for about 10 months and earned my nickname, "hardcase".

Oh well, fuck-em!

Rounder's opinion of Norcal: "You are a liar, a coward, a troll, and a dispicable defeatist." I gotta agree that seems to be the case, Rounder. What I can't figure out is why this Norcal dude hasn't been banned yet. He sure deserves it.

Because we have a thing called freedom of speech here, Johnny McRacist.

I hear you, Rounder.

[QUOTE=Rounder]And so, you've criticized my stated strategy, now state your's. Tell VNN'ers again how they ought to hide out quietly in their small rural communities, [/QUOTE]
That is what I am doing and everybody calls me Hillbilly and Jethro because of it.


I do believe that you are better off moving to a white community and keeping it white, then fighting a losing battle trying to make a diverse community white.

[QUOTE=Rounder]Gee Georgia, you sure do paint White America with a broad brush, eh? And in cyber space, to boot.

In view of your words above, might we not henceforth be justified and correct to not only call you a DEFEATIST, but also a DEFEATIST SPREADING THE POISON OF DEFEATISM thru cyber space, giving much aid and comfort to our enemies, and helping to further demoralize WNs? You answer the question.

And can we also assume from your words above, that we cannot count on you to support VNN'er tabloid newspaper project? You answer the question.[/QUOTE]

This is a public forum so there are certain things I cant say. Nor would I want to say them to anyone either.

Its Georgie not Georgia. I'm not a girl.

[size=3]Who's sock-puppet are you?[/size]

I'm not anyone's "sockpuppet", Norcal. But then, I guess anyone that supports Rounder must be, at least in your paranoid mind. In truth, I don't even know Rounder personally, but after reading a lot of his posts I've come to the conclusion that he's not just a talker (like you) but a real doer. I'm all for his plans, especially for the WN convention idea. That sounds lightyears beyond anything the NA or White Revolution has ever done, or even considered. So you can shove your "sockpuppet" slander up your anal cavity, and then pull it out again and re-shove it down your throat.

If pointing out what some dont want to see is called defeatism. Then sure, I'm spreading defeatism. What I posted there seemed to be the equivalent of when people talked of other disparities facing Whites. NO NO NO NO THATS DEFEATISM!

[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]

My ally here on VNN predicted that the termites would come out of the woodwork to defend Miller today, and your appearance here "out of the blue" certainly fulfills that.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

You calling me a termite, boy?

[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]Who's sock-puppet are you?[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
http://www.bigstonehead.net/images/puppet.jpg


I support Miller and no one here is insane enough to be my sock puppet.




But since I am here insulting the mighty NukeCal. Socko asks,

http://www.wrestling-caricatures.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/socko.gif

Why does NukeCal desire to drop a Nuke on NYC and kill millions but cries crocodile tears when a crazy Arab flies a plane into a building and kills a few thousand (many Christians I know this for a fact because my college had a missionary team working there), and NukeCal hates Christians but morns their demise.

NukeCal is not consistent in anything except defeatism and doesn’t deserve anyone’s respect.

[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]

My ally here on VNN [/SIZE][/QUOTE]
NukeCal’s single ally, the Nukecal fan club of one.

Where are all the hordes of people you claim pleaded with you to come back? I can post what people said when you left again.

I have said it before, People didn’t want you back, when you left it appeared as VNNF’ers wanted you lynched.

[QUOTE=norcalnative1971][SIZE=3]Since "Johnny" is an obvious sock-puppet (yours?), I could care less about his personal safety.

[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

EdbergEdberg is Rounder's sock puppet, and no JohnnyMacracist-come-lately is going to take my place.

Just remember that, NorCal.

BTW, I was offline for several days due to phone line failure. I came back and the first thing I noticed was your absence. It was a very pleasant few days on the forum without you, NorCal. But all too short.

Sorry to see you back so soon.

[QUOTE=Johnny McRacist]I gotta agree that seems to be the case, Rounder. What I can't figure out is why this Norcal dude hasn't been banned yet. He sure deserves it.[/QUOTE]

Wow! One day on the board & you want to ban people. Lest we forget, a list of every printer of WN material in the country.

*sniff*

[QUOTE=Steve B]Interesting, these two! They both embody the essential characteristics of the White Nationalist movement. That is, the two opposing points on how to procede.

Norcal believes that the social organization of the Jew is superior to modern Aryan social organization because the former's is cohesive like none other and like the Borg of Star Trek fame cannot be defeated using conventional methods.

Norcal goes on to state that attacking the ZOG System openly is a strategy that will provoke open, active genocide against our Race, something which we may not be able to survive.

Resistance is futile according to Norcal and the only way to combat ZOG must be in the form of disconnection from the System in every way possible. Moving out of the way of the inevitable superhuman jew vortices of death & destruction in the cities and other non-White areas is the only effective strategy we White Nationalists can muster!

Now we come to Glenn Miller! Miller has a warriors attitude. He thinks that get Up, Stand Up! Don't give up the fight is the way to go! Stand your ground, but more, attack in a great contest in the face of suffering, frustration and Subjugation!

Vanquish the enemy and take total mastery over your foe, says Miller! Keep going and don't stop until you are victorious and have subdued the hostile power!

Miller thinks that tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered and that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly. It is dearness only that gives everything its value and hiding out like a rat waiting in the nearest sewer ain't an option for Glenn Miller!

So who should we follow my White brothers? Are we White men with a history that has never been seen before or are we White women cowering in fear?

Do ..............[/QUOTE]

Interesting start for a thread Steve B but I suspect you appreciate that it contains a false premise. Being, that there is a necessary "choice" to be made here. Not really: the only necessary choice we all have to make is whether to make our efforts to oust the jew serious and active in the real world outside of cyberspace or not.

For example, what you said about Norcal's position, that the jews having superior social cohesion: that is KMD's position and I think we all pretty much agree and take it is a fact. Moreover, we definitely need to move in that direction and that is unquestionably one of the essential kernels of NS thought.

Plus, I dont think Rounder or probably any of us here are opposed to that notion.

the rest of the stuff about retreating vs involvement in XYZ is worth less effort discussing than actually working hard to implement either approach. Particularly considering that these approaches are COMPLEMENTARY.

Would you all stop fucking whining?