SuperTapir or whoever:

How do we real conservatives reconcile conservatism and the church?

I'm not talking about contemporary republicunt born again freaks and their kind, but am referring to the traditional nation based 'established' churches that were key to a region's traditional social and political establishment.
Say for example the Bavarian Catholic church in Southern Germany or the Dutch Reformed Church in the Netherlands.
Most of them are shells of their former selves, but they were part of the rural fabric of society from a social perspective.

I don't care about the spiritual doctrine of course since it is all bunk (and spunk). The social and political connection to a given society is what I am talking about.

Any ideas?
Please throw out some thoughts.

If I were dictator I'd call the church padres into a room, and treat them to a viewing of the execution of any of their number who ever took money for flooding white nations with niggers. Execute the jew-collaborators. Then say to them, boys, you're now free to go back to your houses of worship. I highly recommend you commune with god tonight and experience a revelation that you're going to stay the hell out of politics from this day forward. You're going to search your soul and, bless it, find not a damn thing wrong with racial segregation. You'll on second thought realize it a proud christian-historical tradition. From now on Whites will dictate racial policy, and the church will stick to curing souls.

That's about all you'd need, short-term. Churches and their witch docs are remarkably susceptible to political pressure, and since "revelation" is, considered scientifically, horseshit, 99.999999 of them will come around.

Longer term, there's little that can be done unless eugenics can breed better people. But certainly churches in no way should be subsidized by the state, nor should they be discrimianted against. Until the bell curve of human quality shifts to the right via eugenics -- IF that is possible -- getting rid of churches just means the botches will turn to some other fake-reality peddlers.

I believe if you had a new SS, with very high moral and physical and mental standards, you could draw most of the better males, and that would greatly reduce the appeal of the church. Man does not live by bread alone, but that does not mean it lives by lies about jesus either. If you build it, they will come. Whites are spiritually sick because jews control our society. It is absolutely untrue that whites on the whole feel guilty or entertain any kind of death wish. It is absolutely true that white traitors failed to fight the jew, allowing it to rewrite the rules to produce an environment leading a celebratory march toward white genocide.

LOL. That might have to be a big room with more than a few refrigerated trucks out back.

"Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's"

I've always suspected god had a soft spot in his heart for men who killed priests, ha.

St John Chrysostom said that the road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests and bishops.

But that old Saint had a few pretty sharp words for Jews too, so he's not been in favor as of late. LOL

St John Chrysostom said that the road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests and bishops.

But that old Saint had a few pretty sharp words for Jews too, so he's not been in favor as of late. LOL

No kidding? That's great. I'd never heard of the guy until he was repeatedly mentioned in MacDonald's books.

My mother is a staunch Catholic, and I was raised Catholic. I know the church almost worships poverty, which usually translates to turd-worlders.

Not to mention the numerous "christian" charities, which subsidize inferior dark races that would probably die off on their own.

My mother is a staunch Catholic, and I was raised Catholic. I know the church almost worships poverty, which usually translates to turd-worlders.

Not to mention the numerous "christian" charities, which subsidize inferior dark races that would probably die off on their own.


A church that makes a saint out of Mother Teresa ought pass out pee popsicles as a sacrament.

Remember pseudo commie, bona fide alky Christopher Hitchens ragging on her? That's been his career for the past decade. Pissing on Mother Theresa and Clinton. He's a jew by blood or just ideology, Alex?

Yes, he wrote a book on it. I forget the title. I haven't read it. He no doubt thinks he's being cool and outrageous. I dislike MT and the ones who celebrate her because I don't like shit, whether it comes out of the rear end of a dog, or in human form. What we subsidize with our dollars, attention, praise -- we get more of. Do we want more Teresas? Ugly old Albanian broads who devote their lives to increasing the population of Dravidians? I don't. I want fewer of her disturbed ilk.

Remember pseudo commie, bona fide alky Christopher Hitchens ragging on her? That's been his career for the past decade. Pissing on Mother Theresa and Clinton. He's a jew by blood or just ideology, Alex?

I think he's a half-jew. He 'discovered' it, like Maddy Albright. Ideologically, he's very shifty.

I strongly suspect something similar is going on here. Front page of the paper, which I don't subscribe to, the last couple days was a nigger who fled mid-court, didn't want to get locked up for two days. "Tyrone Edwards" I think was his name. Moved up here recently, headline in paper calls him "local man." There's one subsidized apartment block that I know of, and the last time I drove by there I saw several niggers, which were rare even when I came here a few years ago. I've also seen mammies at Hy-Vee, with what might have been their Baptist handlers. I don't know how anybody can defend Christianity, it's malignant.

I strongly suspect something similar is going on here. Front page of the paper, which I don't subscribe to, the last couple days was a nigger who fled mid-court, didn't want to get locked up for two days. "Tyrone Edwards" I think was his name. Moved up here recently, headline in paper calls him "local man." There's one subsidized apartment block that I know of, and the last time I drove by there I saw several niggers, which were rare even when I came here a few years ago. I've also seen mammies at Hy-Vee, with what might have been their Baptist handlers. I don't know how anybody can defend Christianity, it's malignant.




http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4390




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I don't know how anybody can defend Christianity, it's malignant.

In the 1950's and earlier, Christian churches provided a social connection for the community, which was then white and segregated. So at the time Christianity was a net positive or benign at worst.

Since then jewish ideology infected the Christian churches dramatically within the last few decades, along with everything else.

with what might have been their Baptist handlers. I don't know how anybody can defend Christianity, it's malignant.
Baptists are not Christians they are Baptists there is a difference.

Calling yourself a Baptist is contrary to the bible.

Christians don't buy low-level housing and move minorities in to them to destroy their community. Christians build their communities into something to be proud of anyone claiming to be a Christian and doing things that harm their communities are hypocrites and will face their judgment.

Thanks for that link Franco.

The problem with Christian churches is not unlike the problem with the US government. They are big institutiond built by whites with incredible organizational vitality that has now been turned AGAINST whites. Whites, instead of pitching a bitch, and adamantly and vigorously agitating within those organizations to change them, do the White thing which is go the other direction.

That is a trait in our people that started out in the Reformation -- if you dont like it haul off and go do your own thing somewhere else-- and then grew and was rewarded in the exploration and settlement of north America.

Now Americans are so deeply ingrained with that notion, they always are inclined to walk away rather than fight.

Problem is, today, there's no place to walk away to. No escaping the hand of the US government. And, there is no better organized religious institution on Earth than the Roman Church. Neither one, right now, is good for Whites. But they are so huge, and so powerful, that we need people on the inside of both.

Somebody may have to hold their nose, they may have to lie and cheat and do un-Aryan things to get their, but such a person would only become more and more angry and determined, deep down, to get results, as they forced themself to roll around in the muck with the weaklings, defectives, suckophants, etc.

Organizational subversion a la "Frankfurt school" and the like can cut both ways. It can cut against us or we can use it to our own ends. True, Jews are more inherently able to play chameleon and sneak and parasite etc., from the days of the hiring the whore Rahab to hide their spies inside of Jerhico, but just like the fake or feint in boxing or in fencing, these are nothing more than strategies and techniques for group conflict that can be mastered by anybody with the acumen and discipline to do so.

The problem is that most Whites, including VNNers, look at things in a fundamentally Greek philospher kind of way. We seek the truth. We seek to understand. We are like physicists or engineers, and our minds bend to find a way to understand organizations and groups of people in a scientific way. Really, to me that has always been the hallmark of true conservativism. Seek to know the truth, speak the truth, orient action to the truth. That is a strength, most times, but when you have been forced down from the top caste, it becomes a liability.

The Jew by contrast, does not care about "truth." He only wants to understand as much as he needs to as is necessary to get a scheme to benefit himself and his agenda in motion. Thus he is fundamentally subversive. In a way he is like Satan. Rather than seeking to conform to God's order, he's always moving his OWN thing forward. Doesnt give a care about law etc, just what suits himself. So it is with Jews. They dont care deep down, what is truth. Christ brought a truth-oriented critique to the Judes, and they hanged him for it. The most memorable words of the Gospel for me have always been Quod est veritas? Which Pilate asks Christ right before he bows to Jewish subversion and knowingly, wrongly, convicts him and sends him off to be crucified.

The Resurrection signals that the Jew-way, even though it looks like it will out, is the wrong-way, and that truth in the end is the ultimate value. Jews understood that and so early on they characterized Christ as a Hellenizer. But Jews are resilient, and under the heat and oppression of the Inquisition, they pulled their most powerful stunt which was if you cant beat em join em. Thus Marranos were born and for a good four hundred years Europe was plagued with the trouble of trying to root out "crypto Jews" and clearly the Roman Church is right now on the LOSING END of that proposition.

Their game will continue. Bu meantime, we can also try to be more than a one trick pony, and learn to play our own agenda INSIDE organizations that are normally opposed to us. Fuck the fuckers; Jew the Jews. That is the strategy.

Obviously most people are not cut out for such a thing. I cant say what the average person can do. But, I think VNN readers have a high quotient of above-average, high quality, high talent, individually motivated persons who can consider such perspectives and how to employ such strategies to move the White ball forward.

Re AE's words, I accept this, but I'd modify it. The best "inside" results may be obtained by recruiting directly among those already in position, with, of course, our general effforts aimed at those potentially headed there. But I doubt a large-scale effort can work for two reasons: 1) as AE says, most of our people aren't bent that way; 2) the majority of the jews who screwwormed their way in are. "You can't bullshit a bullshitter," as bullshitters say; neither can you work the inside game against the master subverters, at least not on such a comprehensive scale. The jews are leveraged. Our advantage lies in our numbers. The leveraged jews can only work their scams by turning our people against us. The more centers of active resistance we can raise, the harder time they'll have keeping tabs. I woudn't throw out the option of White religion. Under the right man, one of these could flourish like topsy.

Why don't you describe how one "retakes," say, a parish, since you belive RC is the best religious org out there. Is it legally possible to retake a parish? What would that mean? Have any Catholic traditionalists actually held firm on race?

Hey, now, dont go giving away my details! I'm a paper pusher, a mere scrivener. LOL

Youre right that most of us arent bent that way, I'm just throwing out ideas for people to move their own game forward, and create opportunities to drag us and our projects along with them.

So, essentially, I was thinking of more sneaky cynical exploitative shit than you're referring to. Man are you a straight arrow. I always liked that about you. What I'm talking about is essentially being in the flock like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Not really trying to become the shepherd, just being there to take advantage of whatever opportunities may arise.

Anyhow, to answer, no laity (church folk other than clergy) can retake any parish from Rome. Rome owns them all lock stock and barrel. IN Boston the laity have been holding a vigil 24 hours a day for months to keep one parish open that is scheduled to be closed, and the Church is just being patient with them. They will wait and outlast them.

Nobody other than the state can really "take" stuff from the Church. Except for insiders, who dont take it they sneak it. Like when Notre Dame's Holy Cross priests took Holy Cross Order property and gave it to the newly formed Indiana corporation called University of Notre Dame, which was thereafter governed by a board of directors consisting mostly of laity not clergy-- INSTEAD of the head of the CSC Congretgationa Santa Crucis. But that could not have been done without OK from the Head of that order, and in turn the Pontiff. And, it was done. An act of subversion in the minds of many and I might add that Ted Heshburgh is an Israeli name dropping suckophant who brags in his book about "standing up to Rome" over a Vatican diplomatic initiative to make Jerusalem autonomous instead of governed by the bandit state of ISrael.

SPeaking of states taking stuff from the Church, the Knesset for example, sits on land formerly owned by the Greek Orthodox Church. The bandit state took the land, but in a Jewy way, they "gave them back a lease." Problem with this lease is, the lessee calls the shots not the lessor. Other properties too. Kind of like Henry VIII.

In France, Archbishop Lefebvre dissented from Vatican 2 and broke something like a hundred thousand Catholics away from Rome in an open schism. He walked with beaucoup property too way I understand it. Jews were definitely an issue. Mel Gibson is part of this schismatic movement and it is associated with an organization called Society of Pius X. They are not "racist" but they are probably all White and generally very opposed to nation wrecking nonsense. "Sedevacantist" is the word, because they say the Chair of Peter is vacant and that the Pope is an antiPope.

Rome patched some fences with these guys but they are still out there. The next Pope will either become a complete sheeny suckophant to put Karol to shame, or he will go the other direction and smack em down. Right now, the old guy's taking a long time to kick the bucket and so all eyes are on Rome, and there is major scheming going on. Maybe, if the new guy wants to play Putin and kick some Jew ass, there will be opportunities for the right people when the changes come down.

The reason I breach this in conservativism, is that there are only two successful countersubversive episodes in history I can recall: the first was NS Germany, where in 12 years Hitler and the Germans beat back a huge amount of malevolent nation wrecking Jewish subversion, and the Bolshevik threat to boot, and the other is the counter Reformation, where the Jesuits (not by accident one of the organizational inspiration for the SS) reclaimed major parts of Europe for Rome that had been pried loose by myriad different local political movements in league with a legion of religious heterodoxies.

I think we need something like that now: a massive counter-subversive movement across Europe and the Americas, to beat back the dystopian social engineering schemes of the Jews and their lackeys. It will have to be a war fought on many levels: on the coarsest level, blood will be shed and really must be sooner or later or the most hardened criminals will not be rectified. ON other levels, the fight will not be so clear cut but important nonetheless: the levels of the fight for resources, the fight for the masses of asses, the fight of ideas. At the juncture of every social conflict there is media because media is the way the masses all get moving in the same direction. Media is the KILLER APP of society. It is the sine qua non of any mass movement. It is the large scale instrumentality to accomplish communication. Media. Without media, it cant be done. Right now, Catholics are on the outs because they are getting their asses kicked by lack of media control. But rather than fight it and the obvious enemy the Jew, they have taken the coward's route, the path of the oppossum, and have rolled over to play dead.

Well, if they will play dead, that will provide opportunities for more than the usual suspects. And with that I will end this series of remarks.

OK, Bartleby, that's all you mean? Standing around, waiting to whisper something into someone's ear at a CYO game? I understand your frustration. I'm a White man, I empathize with your frustration at our institutions being denatured, but that just ain't going to cut it.

The next Pope? I sure hope he's of the latter type you mentioned, but I think we both know he'll be the former. Still, I'd love to be proven wrong. :(


LOL, you are good dude. Melville itz. We'll see about the next Bishop of Rome. Unfortunately I dont have a crystal ball. Brass ones will have to do. ;)

There's lots of jockeying going on before the smoke rises, and Jews are either going to come out way ahead, or way behind.

this story deserves a reprise. I will highlight an interesting comment:

http://www.politicsnj.com/jewishnews080802.htm

August 8, 2002

Golan depths


The latest victim, so to speak, of Palestinian terrorism is New Jersey Gov. James McGreevey, forced by a State Department warning to postpone or at least severely curtail a trip to Israel scheduled for next week.

Before State weighed in, McGreevey told our political reporter, Marilyn Silverstein, that he wouldn’t be deterred by the violence from making his fourth trip to the Jewish state.

“Israel is a wonderful nation, and particularly during this time, it is critically important to demonstrate strength, solidarity, and support for the state and the people of Israel,” he said. (See story, page 8.)

Ironically, the governor was facing a different kind of Israel-related problem on the eve of his trip. Last week, the Gannett newspapers published what amounts to a rehash of rumors and innuendo about a senior McGreevey aide, Golan Cipel, almost all of which had previously appeared in other NJ newspapers, including NJJN.

Gannet’s four-month investigation promised much but delivered little. The key element of the story centers on McGreevey’s decision upon assuming office to appoint Cipel as a top aide with responsibility for homeland security. The appointment drew fire because Cipel was a foreign national with no apparent antiterrorism expertise. The new story adds little or nothing to what was already known. Compared to Israeli antiterrorism experts, Cipel may be a novice. But compared with most Americans, he has some experience. Most
Americans haven’t served in the army or the diplomatic service, as even his journalistic detractors admit Cipel has. With all due respect to Bill Clinton’s genuine concern for the well-being of the Jewish state — as reflected most recently in his willingness, as he told a Jewish audience, to take a gun and jump into a ditch to help fight an Iraqi invasion of Israel — Israel isn’t looking for overweight foreigners untrained in the arts of war. America, on the other hand, and the Garden State (see story, page 14) are looking for help from Israeli security experts.

Okay, critics say, but Cipel is not an expert. True, but the governor thought he was expert enough. The debate became moot when the FBI made it clear that Cipel could not receive requisite security clearances because he is not yet an American citizen.

We have since learned that the FBI doesn’t talk to the CIA or the National Security Agency, let alone to the security coordinator in the office of the governor of New Jersey, U.S. citizen or not. The FBI doesn’t even talk to itself.

Initially, Team McGreevey defended the appointment by releasing a resume that may have oversold Cipel’s credentials. But only by a matter of degree. Still, it left McGreevey vulnerable to Gannett’s charge that his having “relied on exaggerated antiterrorism credentials to justify hiring…Cipel as a highly paid adviser…add[ed] to a series of questions” about Cipel: “Who is he? What does he do? Why has he been given special treatment? And why has he been kept from public scrutiny of his credentials?”

This newspaper has never shied away from controversy and has several times crossed swords with the office of the governor as well as with candidates aspiring to the post. Moreover, we feel no special allegiance to Cipel on account of his Israeli nationality or his having served the McGreevey campaign as its outreach liaison to the Jewish community. Adraba, precisely the opposite: Those Israeli-Jewish dimensions force us to increase our scrutiny. So when in July 2001 the McGreevey Jewish effort overreached by charging that the GOP gubernatorial candidate, Jersey City Mayor Bret Schundler, had accepted funds from an anti-Israel Muslim-American group, we reported it and forced the campaign to back down.


But in this case, we fail to understand what all the fuss is about. McGreevey appointed an insurance salesman as his chief of staff. What special experience in the complex mechanics of government did Gary Taffet get from running an insurance company? For that matter, didn’t Christine Todd Whitman exaggerate her credentials before being elected governor? Given, she was a Todd on one side and a Whitman on the other — credentials enough for some folks. But doesn’t every politician and advertising exec try to oversell his or her product? And what about the closing lawyer (no offense to our many attorney readers and friends) rewarded for his singular and apparently only credential, loyalty, with successive appointments up the legal food chain all the way to the top state court?


What Cipel, like Taffet, has is McGreevey’s confidence. Beyond that, why not give the administration the benefit of the doubt?

As to Gannett’s “series of questions”: Has Cipel really “received special treatment and…been kept from public scrutiny of his credentials”? Beyond raising the questions, Gannett did not demonstrate their validity. The only sign we see of special treatment given Cipel is by the press, circling like vultures.

So why all the focus on Cipel?

If Gannett has something, they should spit it out or suck it up and leave Cipel alone. Some readers are dismissing the story as another tempest in a tea cup, which is all very well, unless you’re the tea bag.

On the other hand, one wonders how much they are drawn to his being Israeli. For example, did you know that sexual abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are Israel’s fault?

Well, not exactly Israel’s, but American Jews’. In a May interview with the Italian-Catholic publication 30 Giorni, Cardinal Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras said, “It gave me considerable food for thought that, at a time of total media focus on developments in the Middle East with all the injustices being perpetrated against the Palestinian people, U.S. television and press people were obsessed with sex scandals of 30 or 40 years ago.”

As John L. Allen Jr. states in the July 19th Catholic Reporter, “The logic of his comments seems clear: Someone in America doesn’t like the pro-Palestinian tilt of the Catholic Church and used their media clout to deliver payback. It’s not much of a reach to imagine who Rodriguez might suspect that ‘someone’ to be.” Hmmm. Maybe McGreevey is using Cipel to divert attention from the Newark Arena, or the Newark Arena to divert attention from Cipel. Face it, the press and other administration critics are making a Golan Heights out of a molehill.

I'm not apologizing for any queer/pedo priests, but the issue of media coverage and bias is a fair one, and apparently we are not the only ones who know "WHO CONTROLS THE MEDIA" as the old NA article is entitled.

Thanks, AE, the very educational post I've come to anticipate from you. It sparked an idea. If NS rolled back lib-garbage in Catholicism under Hitler, then it would be great to see an article on that, so that we could show that in contrast to the paleocons, there was substantial progress in recapturing the culture, even if in certain ways the Cats and Nazs were opposed. You see what I mean? We've seen in work of EMJ and others the way there was a predecessor and analog to today's Kwa at every point of the spectrum back in Weimar Germany.

I wonder...were certain priests cashiered -- ie, "tolerance" promoters, fag-lovers, race-mixers, marranos? Would be an interesting article, to be sure, although I wouldn't know where to begin to collect the data. I get mail from a couple Catholic mills, and to the extent they touch NS Germany, they, like buchanan, take pains to emphasize "no one here but us chickens, boss!" - ie, they fought the nazis with all their might and did all they could to help the jews. One might be forgiven for saying that Catholics come across as straight men (to jewish comedians) who don't realize they're straight men.

If there are any of these Piusites, or whatever they're called, please chime in. I used to get New Oxford Review. I'm not sure how that house fits with Pius or the rest of this.

My conclusion about Catholics is that when the jews say they're chosen, I laugh. when the Catholics affirm the "elder brother" garbage, I lose all respect for them. When the pope starts acting like the holocaust occured, i laugh. When the pope says maybe god let it go so far but just no farther to teach us a lesson, i start wishing the crappy instituation would dry up and blow away.