..........

[QUOTE=NWWARRIOR] Gliebe claims Kevin Strom is on his side “100%,” [/QUOTE]
Gliebe must be lying through his teeth. Strom seems to be squaring off against Gliebe. Below is a KAS post from Stormfront. KAS refutes a NA member and says that the stories being put out by the NA home office are false, and that the attacks on Gliebe and Walker in the Pringle thread are mostly true.
[QUOTE= Weiß Stolz] I got my local UC to contact the main office: The response... is that this is bs [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kevin Alfred Strom]
I can assure you that, while not every issue in this thread is relevant or should have been brought up, the concerns that prompted this affair are most certainly not "BS" -- and they cannot be refuted. Efforts are being made by responsible parties to set things right.

I will add that the "telephone tree" efforts to blacken the reputations of Mr. Kelso and other fine people are inexcusable and are a symptom of the problem.

With all good wishes, Kevin. [/QUOTE]

This appears to be true. Winchester Hodgkins (AKA: Your Mama, Yothar1488, etc.) was also sending this poor girl's picture around recently. Hodgkins was working on a guy's congressional campaign about a month ago and was showing skinheads a crude, tasteless nude photo of the NA chairman's latest "girlfriend."

You NA people are really beginning to lose it. Strip club calandars are not "family friendly." You recently invited some Identity folk to a gathering and a few of our younger ones were impressed by your intellect and organization. You guys used to publish some great material. Your representatives used to be considered among the most knowledgeable and competent in the movement.

If you don't look inward and exercise some discretion you will soon be done as a white nationalist organization with a global reach. I know you are not a religious group, and I suppose I have no right to comment about this internal strife and I mean you no disrespect. But if you can't get some morality and human decency from the WORD, please, for the good of our race, get it from somewhere...

The strip club calender tells you everything you need to know about the current NA leadership. Anything else is detail.

Get the Gliebe gang out.

NOW.

Done some research .....
She was in this issue 1997 College Girls

http://www.playboy.com/on-campus/collegeguide/imx/1997-04se_med.jpg

Dekalb College
Kimberly Donahoe
Erika Snyder

The spin and damage control started as soon as Gliebe got here. The latest Internet questions and criticisms are all part of a “COINTELPRO” operation, he says. “All lies.” Don’t believe what you read on the web, the Chairman tells us. Everything is going well. We are bigger than ever, and doing more than ever. Get to specifics and he interrupts you with his “duh...where did you hear that,” question.

Shaun Walker is definitely a much better liar than Gliebe. It's nice Erich gets to take his little stripper friend on these little endeavors. While the rest of us are working full time jobs, taking care of our famlies, and passing out flyers to unsuspecting White folks. Telling them to join and send money to pay for Erich's trips and degeneracy. This is totally ridiculous. Enough is enough! The one who takes the stand against this, is the one that deserves the position of chairman. So come on who will it be? In the words of Herodotus "There are many men but few heros".

I’m getting all the hot info and questions. Some of you need to PM some of this to NWWARRIOR. That's why I'm posting this misc new krap here.

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]Q. Where is Kelly? [/COLOR]
A. I don’t have any idea. Erich had promised to marry her. By all accounts she is a nice girl. But hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Erich and Erica have been a number for four months behind Kelly’s back. Erich and Erica combined have wrecked more homes than the 8th Air Force did during the Dresden attack. ;)

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]Cynical Rumor: Erica is the number two boss in the NA. [/COLOR]
Cynical reply: If that’s true, then Erich is number three because Walker is number one. As has been said in this forum, Erica had been trying to get Winchester H fired as senior moderator of the Resistance Forum. Erica got into a bitching spat with other posters and Winchester tried to throw cold water on the cat fight by banning her. So she’s trying get Winchester removed. That’s lot of power for someone brand new, especially considering all the time, money, etc. that Winchester has devoted to Gliebe’s NA.

Winchester has remained staunchly loyal and tried to fight off Gliebe’s and Walker’s critics. He's taken a lot of flak from people like me. Now he’s getting the screw slowly turned and the “telephone tree” is starting to go into action behind his back. Rumor is that the powers that be are even trashing Winchester’s wife. If true, that’s a pretty low tactic just to placate some floozy. That’s loyalty for you!

Gliebe should dance with the one that brought him to the dance..... not with the one he wants to get into the sack.

And Winchester's friends in the National Alliance are they going to stand up for him or are they going to indulge Gliebe’s latest indulgence?

Winchester and the UCs are caught in the middle. Most still remain loyal to Gliebe and try to put Gliebe’s spin on questions that they are asked by NA members. But Gliebe’s spin is mostly half lies and counteraccusations. That makes Winchester and the UCs look like lairs in front of the membership.

[COLOR=RoyalBlue]Q. Who is paying for Erica’s travel to Seattle and who paid for her travel to Massachusetts? [/COLOR]
A. How am I supposed to know? I’ve had two sources tell me that the NA paid for her air fair. But how do they know for sure unless they saw the check or the credit card receipt? This is a question that only Gliebe or Walker can answer and it should be asked immediately by the so-called audit committee being cooked up this weekend in New Jersey.

This one off Google. Warning contains nudity.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:uXb5D5kz6cIJ:lm-se-bo.boom.ru/lm2/L_M_Erika_Snyder_pcg9704_01.jpg[url="http://lm-se-bo.boom.ru/lm2/L_M_Erika_Snyder_pcg9704_01.jpg"][/url]

I'm frankly repulsed to think an organization that promotes family values would allow a individual who has undeniably participated in the Jew infested pornography industry access to the highest levels of leadership within the White Nationalist movement. It degrades all women currently involved in the struggle who didn't succumb to making an easy buck. Everyone make mistakes and they can atone for their past actions but this is unreasonable to think this woman potentially may have the eventual opportunity to represent the organization on some level through her relationship with chairman Gliebe.

Man, this makes me glad I'm married, I tell you what.

A few of you may still remember how Erich met Kelly to begin with. After a meeting and recruiting junket, she invited Sam V. R. back to an empty bedroom for a "backrub", which, Sam being Sam, he misinterpreted for an invitation to something more. She got cold feet and told him to stop, and later said that he had been a little forceful. Now, those of us who remember Mr. Van Rensburg know better than that, ahem, and some of us have seen the video to prove how sensitive he can be. Cardboard box, candle, and all. (Inside joke) Sex and violence, Sex and violence...I know this is going way over most peoples' heads, here, ooops, there I go again, but a few of you will get a kick out of remembering the good old days, before Kelly cried foul and Dr. Pierce sent Erich after her to calm her down and keep Sam from being beheaded by irate male kin. Those of you who have heard Erich speak know just what a calming influence he can have. Positively put you to sleep, he will, if he isn't telling fart jokes.

Last I heard, Sam was selling used cars in Florida, and had his wife AND Patricia both living in the area. Charming bastard.

So, Pringle has been screwed, and Doc Ellis sided with Gliebe? That's a tactical error on his part, considering all that Dave knows about his activities and practice. Getting his license pulled again will be a real bitch.

Poetic justice that Winchester is next on the chopping block, I bet that'll push him right off the wagon again. Hell, he'll probably get his ass kicked by somebody's wife, even if it's not his own. He probably won't have to drive three hours to get it done, either. Thank you, thank you very much!

But Kelly Alice squaring off against Gliebe and Walker? I doubt Elisha has the stones. He does seem hurt that they're attacking his galpal Jamie, though.

When I first moved to the National Office, in 2000, Shaun Walker was one of the first ones to lobby for me to ask Dr. Pierce to record new outgoing messages for NA message services, because they refused to use KAS's recorded one. Walker specifically stated that he didn't want a bunch of fags joining his Unit after hearing Strom's voice on the outgoing message.

I do recall Gliebe remarking about what a good boobjob Shaun Walker's wife Cindy has, on the phone. He kept going on and on, it was kind of embarrassing, really. She's a nice lady, from the time I spent around her, and Gliebe was talking about her like she was his next intended conquest, I don't know...

They all have some serious issues to deal with. I, for one, am glad that I don't have to try to sort it all out.

-Billy

Gliebe's sexual appetite

Please the last thing we need is this lowlife spreading his defective genes around. Especially with some porno stripper skank.

[QUOTE=Colonel.Kurtz][SIZE=2] Well, from all that I've heard about Gliebe's sexual appetite, which, in itself is not fatally incriminating, I think what disappoints me most is that no White children have been produced. None, as in zero. [/SIZE][/QUOTE]To be honest, I think it's a good thing that Gliebe hasn't had any children yet. As it is, he's shown himself to be quite irresponsible, both with NA funds and with his women. I don't think the man is responsible enough to be a father, and if he did have children, he would be a very pitiful role model. He seems like the type who would try to get out of child support payments as well. (Since he can't commit to one woman, you know there's virtually no chance in hell that he'd stay with the mother of his children. Or, if he did stay with her, he'd end up cheating on her, and she'd likely divorce him.)

[QUOTE=NWWARRIOR]

The spin and damage control started as soon as Gliebe got here. The latest Internet questions and criticisms are all part of a “COINTELPRO” operation, he says. “All lies.” Don’t believe what you read on the web, the Chairman tells us. Everything is going well. We are bigger than ever, and doing more than ever. Get to specifics and he interrupts you with his “duh...where did you hear that,” question.

[/QUOTE]

Ol' Gleeber is nothing if not consistant. This is the same line he has been mumbling for the last 16 months or so.

You would think that with all these COINTELPRO operatives conspiring to get him he would be out of business by now. The fact that he is not behind bars makes one wonder just who the real ZOG asset is. Is it the dozens, hell probably hundreds, of people who have criticized and questioned his "leadership" during the past couple of years? Or is it the snake oil salesman himself?

His stock answer to criticizm is that the NA is bigger than ever and doing more than ever, with a few lines thrown in about "staying the course" or "pressing ahead". What we want to know, Mr. Gliebe, is just what exactly have YOU done for the NA in the last couple of years? Name one single positive contribution. List one single thing you have done that has advanced our cause. One single thing that you have written which contains an original idea. Is the NA better off in even one single way now than it was prior to your leadership?

[QUOTE=J.P. Slovjanski]Technically, COINTELPRO was deemed illegal and banned, so there's no proof positive that it even exists today. So why then, did not COINTELPRO attack the NA when Pierce was alive?[/QUOTE]

Exactly! ZOG did, however, have their spies in the NA even when it was under Dr. Pierce. The one everyone knows about is Gliebe's mentor, Lawrence Meyers. Dr. Pierce's main defense against them was to make sure the NA stayed legal.

Gliebe's problems are not due to some COINTELPRO type operation. His problems are due to his own inability to provide the NA with real leadership.

[QUOTE=J.P. Slovjanski]Technically, COINTELPRO was deemed illegal and banned, so there's no proof positive that it even exists today. So why then, did not COINTELPRO attack the NA when Pierce was alive?[/QUOTE]
The COINTELPRO technique is as old as mankind. It's always existed and always will.

The Church committee reforms that made cointelpro "illegal" were overturned by the Patriot act. Google "church committee reforms" if you want to read about it.

So it is not outside the range of possibility that there is disinformation involving the NA in some respect, but I think it is more likely coming from the accuser than the accused.

As in, "he who smelt it dealt it."

Strom and Gliebe have always used "COINTELPRO" boogyman to deflect legitimate questions. Conjuring up imaginary enemies to galvanize the flock and keep it from asking pointed questions is a well known cult technique.

Viewing Gliebe on Saturday in the West Sound/Seattle meeting was quite the eye opener. It was a serious display of incompetence. I was personally embarrassed just for having witnessed the event.

At first Gliebe gave an introduction of himself that was somewhat loose and casual and then when he started his speech it was as if someone flipped a switch on his back over to speech mode. He awkwardly attempted to read from a piece of paper and pretend look at the audience at the same time. He would start to read a sentence and then throw his head up and off to one side looking at the wall up near the ceiling well past the furthest person on that side of the room. At first I tried to find what Gliebe was looking at that was so far up on the wall, as did a few others in the room. Realizing there was nothing significant there we returned our attention to Gliebe, who having found what must have been some predetermined spot on the wall, jerks his head back down to his paper and attempts to find where he left off before running out of words. He then repeats this action only looking to the opposite side of the room. Never does he look forward or makes eye contact with anyone.

After I got over the initial shock I realized that I mustn’t look directly at him so I could listen to him without the visual distraction. What Gliebe said in a not so short way was how the newly christened unit was going to provide leadership and direction to the white, rebellious, liberal and environmentally conscious youth of the northwest and radicalize them into a powerful revolutionary force and save the white race. He spoke as if the people in the northwest are more receptive to our ideology when really they’re just like every other nonracial white person in the US. He also talked of how the feds are scaring away all the bricklayers he is trying to hire to build the Pierce Monument. He talked of driving through a thunderstorm down to the hospital to see Dr. Pierce where he was asked to be chairman and how he has chosen to defend himself against any attacks by not defending himself.

After what passed for a speech had concluded we all stood and smacked our hands together in front of our chests, some out of reflex and some because others were doing it, but a few I imagine because it was finally over. I walked around in a daze for a while, as if I had just been in an auto accident, trying to figure out what just happened and trying to comprehend how anyone could select him for this position.

Observing Gliebe throughout the remainder of the event I noticed he was very recluse, often him and his fiancée standing off to themselves. He did not move about the room. People would approach him, talk for a while and move on. He would just stand there until someone else walked over and talked to him. They also sat alone during the potluck.

I want to finish by saying the members of our unit are decent people, although probably not aware about the shifting ideology or popularization taking place in the alliance. Maybe someday I will get the courage to tell them what I think about what is going on. In the meantime I will consider Fred Streed’s advice not to quit and to support Strom directly. Maybe someday Strom will let everyone know what is going on. Strom is not perfect but I think he cares and that is what is important.

Does the national office have the ability to pull the plug on ADD or nationalvanguard.org in case Strom decides to do dissent from the current party line?

What weapons does Strom have that are under his control?



Another Concerned Alliance Member

Joe, your experience was exactly the same experience I had when I viewed Gliebe at our local meeting.

I had already met the scumbag and had a pretty bad impression of him but my impression was cemented when he got behind the podium and started blubbering. His speech was awful....he had it all written down on a piece of paper and didn't have one line of it memorized.

He must be trying a new style because when I saw him speak he looked up at the group about 10 times over the course of the entire speech for less than a second each time. He basically just got up and read an essay and sat down.

I was probably the third or fourth person into the meeting room before everyone else came in and he didn't say anything to me when I entered he just kind of sat nervously over in the corner, he wouldn't even look at me. I was trying to draw eye contact to see if it was okay to approach him, I didn't know if he was meditating or something the way he was staring off into space. I went up and introduced myself and he just kind of folded his arms up and nodded and I said a few words to him and he just said "yep, yep" and looked off into the distance. I looked over my shoulder to see what he was looking at and nothing was there so I just walked away since he obviously wasn't interested in talking to me...I saw him do this to a few other people as well and I couldn't believe what a cold and horribly boring individual he really was. He had nothing to say, nothing to interject and nothing to promote.

I was a new member at the time and remember thinking to myself "who is this guy and how did he get his job?"

Why doesn't Gliebe just give it up and get back to his own personal life. This has to be a terribly stressful existence for him. It cannot be enjoyable or rewarding.

Gliebe should hold a meeting with all UCs and former board members and work out a just formula for running the NA and offer his resignation while there is still something that can be salvaged. By doing this, Gliebe could regain a great measure of respect from everyone. There is no disgrace in not being able to fill William Pierce's shoes. There will be eternal disgrace if he destroys everything Dr. Pierce built in a lifetime.

Gliebe should think long and hard about all this.

[QUOTE=EdbergEdberg]Why doesn't Gliebe just give it up and get back to his own personal life. This has to be a terribly stressful existence for him. It cannot be enjoyable or rewarding.

Gliebe should hold a meeting with all UCs and former board members and work out a just formula for running the NA and offer his resignation while there is still something that can be salvaged. By doing this, Gliebe could regain a great measure of respect from everyone. There is no disgrace in not being able to fill William Pierce's shoes. There will be eternal disgrace if he destroys everything Dr. Pierce built in a lifetime.

Gliebe should think long and hard about all this.[/QUOTE]

Yes. He cannot be enjoying life much these days. One of the things that used to really bother me about Erich, back when I was still trying to work with him, was his ability to ignore facts and believe what he wanted to believe regardless of the truth. Or at least insist other people believe it. When I presented him with the membership numbers showing a decline over a period of several months he would just insist that we were recruiting more people than ever. I would reply that we were really losing more people than ever. He finally "fixed" the problem by having Marta change the status of the people who had recently dropped out or been dropped for non payment of dues to show them as still active members. Voila! Problem solved. He came to me and told me there was nothing to worry about, he had fixed the problem.

It is possible that he really does think everything is just fine under his leadership. But Walker, at least, has to know better, nuts as he is.

[QUOTE=Joe Snuffy]Viewing Gliebe on Saturday in the West Sound/Seattle meeting was quite the eye opener. It was a serious display of incompetence. I was personally embarrassed just for having witnessed the event.

At first Gliebe gave an introduction of himself that was somewhat loose and casual and then when he started his speech it was as if someone flipped a switch on his back over to speech mode. He awkwardly attempted to read from a piece of paper and pretend look at the audience at the same time. He would start to read a sentence and then throw his head up and off to one side looking at the wall up near the ceiling well past the furthest person on that side of the room. At first I tried to find what Gliebe was looking at that was so far up on the wall, as did a few others in the room. Realizing there was nothing significant there we returned our attention to Gliebe, who having found what must have been some predetermined spot on the wall, jerks his head back down to his paper and attempts to find where he left off before running out of words. He then repeats this action only looking to the opposite side of the room. Never does he look forward or makes eye contact with anyone.

After I got over the initial shock I realized that I mustn’t look directly at him so I could listen to him without the visual distraction. What Gliebe said in a not so short way was how the newly christened unit was going to provide leadership and direction to the white, rebellious, liberal and environmentally conscious youth of the northwest and radicalize them into a powerful revolutionary force and save the white race. He spoke as if the people in the northwest are more receptive to our ideology when really they’re just like every other nonracial white person in the US. He also talked of how the feds are scaring away all the bricklayers he is trying to hire to build the Pierce Monument. He talked of driving through a thunderstorm down to the hospital to see Dr. Pierce where he was asked to be chairman and how he has chosen to defend himself against any attacks by not defending himself.

After what passed for a speech had concluded we all stood and smacked our hands together in front of our chests, some out of reflex and some because others were doing it, but a few I imagine because it was finally over. I walked around in a daze for a while, as if I had just been in an auto accident, trying to figure out what just happened and trying to comprehend how anyone could select him for this position.

Observing Gliebe throughout the remainder of the event I noticed he was very recluse, often him and his fiancée standing off to themselves. He did not move about the room. People would approach him, talk for a while and move on. He would just stand there until someone else walked over and talked to him. They also sat alone during the potluck.

I want to finish by saying the members of our unit are decent people, although probably not aware about the shifting ideology or popularization taking place in the alliance. Maybe someday I will get the courage to tell them what I think about what is going on. In the meantime I will consider Fred Streed’s advice not to quit and to support Strom directly. Maybe someday Strom will let everyone know what is going on. Strom is not perfect but I think he cares and that is what is important.

Does the national office have the ability to pull the plug on ADD or nationalvanguard.org in case Strom decides to do dissent from the current party line?

What weapons does Strom have that are under his control?

Another Concerned Alliance Member[/QUOTE]

Joe, you and WM4WL typify the Alliance members that a few expatriate Pierce loyalists here at VNNF have been trying to reach and influence for about a year now. The word is out now among the current membership and it's up to you to bring pressure on Gliebe from below to do the right thing and step down. We here were all attracted to NA by the same Alliance material that you were. Believe me, we all remember our first introductions to Dr. Pierce and our memories are nothing like your and WM4WL's disappointing accounts of meeting the current, rather disgusting rogue chairman.

As for the weapons under KAS's control, I'd say his having a voice with a weekly audience of Alliance members and supporters is his best lever. If the stupid Gliebe/Walker duo keep docking Kevin's pay, he'll perhaps do as Dave Pringle has done and spill the beans rather than keeping up the pretense that "all's well and the Alliance is growing as never before," and, "Ignore the internet gossip; it's evil COINTELPRO-types behind that." Ultimately, Kevin's best weapon is the truth. It's a shame that the Alliance's viability comes down to Kevin's salary. If one White man of means would step forward to pay Kevin to do what he does best, Kevin could then support his family and easily disentangle himself from EG's foul mess. That's when the house of cards tumbles.

At this point it's probably better for members like you to contact Kevin and Elisha and voice your concerns rather than piss in the wind trying to influence Gliebe or his goons to reverse the slide by doing the right thing. Meanwhile, try to hold the people in your area together who were attracted to the NA message. You folks have a lot of leverage that way.

It's funny to hear that the great Aryan Barbarian, the self-proclaimed "strategist," believe's that his best offense is no defense.

[QUOTE=NWWARRIOR]Yep, the stress and pressure has got to be wearing him down. He will be meeting with the UC’s any day now to offer up his resignation.[/QUOTE][color=black][font=Verdana]From what I hear, Gliebe and Skippy have been at each others throats and throwing a fit like a couple of 5 year olds about the information that's being leaked here and over on SF. Poor bastards are even accusing the staff. They've even accused local members of being "Communist Spies!"
Funny stuff. I just wish we had some video of the poor bastards jumping up and down, screaming in front of their computers. Comical, yet pathetic.[/font][/color][font=Arial][/font]


-Tom

[QUOTE=Casper]This one off Google. Warning contains nudity.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:uXb5D5kz6cIJ:lm-se-bo.boom.ru/lm2/L_M_Erika_Snyder_pcg9704_01.jpg[/url]

I'm frankly repulsed to think an organization that promotes family values would allow a individual who has undeniably participated in the Jew infested pornography industry access to the highest levels of leadership within the White Nationalist movement. It degrades all women currently involved in the struggle who didn't succumb to making an easy buck. Everyone make mistakes and they can atone for their past actions but this is unreasonable to think this woman potentially may have the eventual opportunity to represent the organization on some level through her relationship with chairman Gliebe.[/QUOTE]
KAS should put that one on the cover of the next issue of National Vanguard mag.
http://members.tripod.com/~rosemck1/pop-goes-the-weasel.mid (http://lm-se-bo.boom.ru/lm2/L_M_Erika_Snyder_pcg9704_01.jpg)
I mean, they are going for the good KrishTons, in lieu of the vile Aryans, right?
[url]http://www.natvan.com/national-vanguard/

[QUOTE=NWWARRIOR]The guy is an uneducated thug. A sociopath. A deviant, sexual predator who uses our membership roster as his personal little-black-book. He fucks the women out of their dignity and self esteem and the men out of their money.[/QUOTE]

That about sums it up! Shaun Walker is no better. They are traitors to their race. In fact they should be at the very top of the list of race traitors, in due time they WILL be held accountable for their treason.

At some point they are going to have to realize they have lost it, the cash cow is dying, their scam is over. At that point they will probably try for a quick sale of the real estate and whatever else can be converted to cash and will "retire". The UCs and others need to watch them closely.

We got a very strong rumour that Nick Griffin was mauling about with Miss Hardwick on his US trips.

It came from a very strong source.

Funny thing is ,that after this rumour broke, Mrs. Griffin always accompanied Nick when he went to the USA in the future.

Anyone know the details ?

Dear VVN,
This clown NWWARRIOR is not a part of our unit. He's lying to you. Women and children are not a part of our unit. He's blowing smoke at you.

[QUOTE=Joe Snuffy]Viewing Gliebe on Saturday in the West Sound/Seattle meeting was quite the eye opener. It was a serious display of incompetence. I was personally embarrassed just for having witnessed the event.

He talked of driving through a thunderstorm down to the hospital to see Dr. Pierce where he was asked to be chairman and how he has chosen to defend himself against any attacks by not defending himself.[/QUOTE]
Is this true? Every version I've read from Streed, Roper, Jerry Abbott, DeMaris, etc. says that Dr. Pierce deliberately named no successor because he didn't think any were qualified. If he named Gliebe, a relative outsider from Cleveland, wouldn't Pierce have informed his staff? I gather he wanted it run by the board until some great man rose through the ranks.

How about this guy Doc Ellis, wasn't he there? He's a Gliebe supporter. Does doc recall Pierce naming a successor as chairman of the National Alliance. If any of the people in this paragraph can support Gliebe's claim, then it makes Gliebe look a bit more legitimate. However, if they cannot verify Gliebe’s statement, it makes Gliebe look like a ghoul putting words in a dead man's mouth.

[QUOTE=Joe Snuffy]Observing Gliebe throughout the remainder of the event I noticed he was very recluse, often him and his fiancée standing off to themselves. [/QUOTE]
Is this fiancée the short blond alleged prono model? (See link to photo in Casper’s post.) That photo is several years old, I guess.

NorWind

I was at the hospital in Beckley, WV when the snake oil salesman arrived. If Erich Gliebe is saying that Dr. Pierce asked him to be chairman of the National Alliance he is a lying dog.

Gliebe is a liar. But what else is new? If Gliebe said it was raining it was probably sunshine. I was present when Dr. Pierce gave his final words. He did not name a successor. Each of us was asked for a private meeting with Dr. Pierce during his last hours. They were Fred Streed, Dr. DeMarais, Billy Roper, myself, Jerry Abbott, Bob Hawthorne, Jeff Cotton, Tim Scott and Gliebe. Perhaps it is telling that only one of us is still a member of the National Alliance: Gliebe. Each man left their visit with a tear in his eye and a lump in his throat with the exception of one. You don’t need three guesses to figure out that it was Gliebe who walked away from Dr. Pierce’s deathbed with a smirk on his face. It is an image that will be ingrained in my memory for as long as I live. I think this says all anybody ever needs to know about his character. Then we all gathered round for Dr. Pierce’s last speech in which he told us to concentrate on the big things and the little things will take care of themselves and, “Do right and fear no one.” He specifically did not name a successor. That task was left to the Board of Directors.

Though they (the BOD) will be the first to admit they made an atrocious error in judgment, they are honorable people who were acting for what they thought was the best interest of the National Alliance. Besides the stress of Dr. Pierce’s death and the strain of making an all-important decision they were also under the heavy pressure of politicking. Not from Billy Roper, Chester Doles or Will Williams, people who might be considered for the Chairman’s seat, but by Gliebe and a Gliebe supporter, Lawrence Meyers, who Gliebe himself later alleged was an FBI/SPLC spy. I believe, though I don’t have firsthand knowledge, there was an underlying threat that Gliebe would sue or cause some kind of legal problems if he was not appointed Chairman (Gliebe was appointed trustee of the Cosmotheism Church, meaning the 60 acres where the warehouse and main office is located). At least I believe it was considered as a possibility. A short time after Dr. Pierce’s last words we were informed that he had passed from this realm and was crossing the rainbow bridge, Bifrost, on his path to Valhalla. Was he euthanized as some have suggested? Only UFO-nutcase Dr. Ellis can say for sure. It would have made little practical difference either way. I wouldn’t blame Dr. Ellis if he did perform euthanasia, though practicing medicine in a state that you are not licensed in is a questionable deed. Was he practicing medicine in a state he was not licensed in? I don’t know if it would hold up as courtroom evidence, but I suppose all you would have to do would be to check and see who signed the death certificate. I have never checked the death certificate myself, but I am assuming the signer was Dr. Ellis. Or a little green man.

It is probably important to mention who was NOT present during Dr. Pierce’s last hours on this earth. Kevin Alfred Strom, though asked to be there, refused to attend. I assume he was too busy with his job of maintaining the Revilo Oliver archives to make the three hour drive and visit Dr. Pierce in his death throes. Or maybe, like his condition for re-joining the Alliance, he wouldn’t do it unless he got paid. I suspect the true reason had more to do with Elisha Strom’s prior internet post that she would never support an organization that had men like William Pierce or Billy Roper. Chester Doles was not present. He had been at the NA headquarters during Dr. Pierce’s illness, offering to mow the grass or do whatever small work needed to be done, but when Dr. Pierce passed away Mr. Doles was on his way back to Georgia, having been made to feel unwelcome and his presence unwanted by Gliebe, who probably viewed him as a threat to the Chairmanship. Mr. Roper tried unsuccessfully to persuade Mr. Doles to turn his truck around and come back for the funeral but by that time Mr. Doles was far too pissed off to return. I believe Mr. Streed also tried to convince Mr. Doles to return. Amanda Hawthorne was not present. She had an overdue pregnancy and was too emotionally distraught. She would become more distraught a short time later, after Dr. Pierce’s death, when she and her husband were fired, kicked out of their home next to the main office and threatened with deportation. She would become more distraught just a few hours later when, after all the stress she endured, she miscarried her beautiful, perfectly-formed baby girl. She would become more distraught later, when, out of poverty, they couldn’t afford a burial plot and asked to have their dead White baby buried on a small unused portion of the NA property. Gliebe refused.

By far, the second worst decision ever made was to allow Strom to speak at Dr. Pierce’s funeral, where he delivered the most inappropriate eulogy I have ever heard in my lifetime. What does a prolonged and detailed discussion of brain parasites have to do with the life of Dr. Pierce? I kept looking over at Dr. Pierce’s grandchildren to see if they were traumatized by having some creepy man at their Paw-Paw’s funeral describe how insects furrow their way inside human grey matter but fortunately they, like the rest of us, had no idea what the fuck he was going on about.

Ben Vinyard

Posted by NorWind
Is this true? Every version I've read from Streed, Roper, Jerry Abbott, DeMaris, etc. says that Dr. Pierce deliberately named no successor because he didn't think any were qualified.
Yes it is true that Gliebe stated this but I believe Streed, Roper, Abbott and DeMaris when they say otherwise. Even when David Pringle was over here (west sound) this summer he had to perform a little damage control involving the firing of the board while conducting a question and answer session, during which he stated the board was set up ONLY to appoint a chairman. Now I don’t believe that was the boards only purpose as Pringle said, but he made this statement in defense of Gliebe so I imagine if Pierce had appointed Gliebe, Pringle would have used that justification instead.
If I had to take my best guess at explaining the discrepancies between the two stories (Gliebe’s and the old BOD), I would speculate that Gliebe went down to see Pierce on his deathbed, and in saying his goodbyes, Pierce maybe gave Gliebe some motivational words along the lines of “needing to take charge” and “be more of a leader”. Gliebe then interprets this as Dr. Pierce wanting him to be chairman. Or it could be he is just lying. Even if Pierce had appointed him he needs removed due to his lack of ability and his Clinton like behavior.



Posted by NorWind
Is this fiancée the short blond alleged prono model? (See link to photo in Casper’s post.) That photo is several years old, I guess.
Yes, short and blond.

[QUOTE=Ben Vinyard]Gliebe is a liar. But what else is new? If Gliebe said it was raining it was probably sunshine. I was present when Dr. Pierce gave his final words. He did not name a successor. Each of us was asked for a private meeting with Dr. Pierce during his last hours. They were Fred Streed, Dr. DeMarais, Billy Roper, myself, Jerry Abbott, Bob Hawthorne, Jeff Cotton, Tim Scott and Gliebe. Perhaps it is telling that only one of us is still a member of the National Alliance: Gliebe. Each man left their visit with a tear in his eye and a lump in his throat with the exception of one. You don’t need three guesses to figure out that it was Gliebe who walked away from Dr. Pierce’s deathbed with a smirk on his face. It is an image that will be ingrained in my memory for as long as I live. I think this says all anybody ever needs to know about his character. Then we all gathered round for Dr. Pierce’s last speech in which he told us to concentrate on the big things and the little things will take care of themselves and, “Do right and fear no one.” He specifically did not name a successor. That task was left to the Board of Directors.

Though they (the BOD) will be the first to admit they made an atrocious error in judgment, they are honorable people who were acting for what they thought was the best interest of the National Alliance. Besides the stress of Dr. Pierce’s death and the strain of making an all-important decision they were also under the heavy pressure of politicking. Not from Billy Roper, Chester Doles or Will Williams, people who might be considered for the Chairman’s seat, but by Gliebe and a Gliebe supporter, Lawrence Meyers, who Gliebe himself later alleged was an FBI/SPLC spy. I believe, though I don’t have firsthand knowledge, there was an underlying threat that Gliebe would sue or cause some kind of legal problems if he was not appointed Chairman (Gliebe was appointed trustee of the Cosmotheism Church, meaning the 60 acres where the warehouse and main office is located). At least I believe it was considered as a possibility. A short time after Dr. Pierce’s last words we were informed that he had passed from this realm and was crossing the rainbow bridge, Bifrost, on his path to Valhalla. Was he euthanized as some have suggested? Only UFO-nutcase Dr. Ellis can say for sure. It would have made little practical difference either way. I wouldn’t blame Dr. Ellis if he did perform euthanasia, though practicing medicine in a state that you are not licensed in is a questionable deed. Was he practicing medicine in a state he was not licensed in? I don’t know if it would hold up as courtroom evidence, but I suppose all you would have to do would be to check and see who signed the death certificate. I have never checked the death certificate myself, but I am assuming the signer was Dr. Ellis. Or a little green man.

It is probably important to mention who was NOT present during Dr. Pierce’s last hours on this earth. Kevin Alfred Strom, though asked to be there, refused to attend. I assume he was too busy with his job of maintaining the Revilo Oliver archives to make the three hour drive and visit Dr. Pierce in his death throes. Or maybe, like his condition for re-joining the Alliance, he wouldn’t do it unless he got paid. I suspect the true reason had more to do with Elisha Strom’s prior internet post that she would never support an organization that had men like William Pierce or Billy Roper. Chester Doles was not present. He had been at the NA headquarters during Dr. Pierce’s illness, offering to mow the grass or do whatever small work needed to be done, but when Dr. Pierce passed away Mr. Doles was on his way back to Georgia, having been made to feel unwelcome and his presence unwanted by Gliebe, who probably viewed him as a threat to the Chairmanship. Mr. Roper tried unsuccessfully to persuade Mr. Doles to turn his truck around and come back for the funeral but by that time Mr. Doles was far too pissed off to return. I believe Mr. Streed also tried to convince Mr. Doles to return. Amanda Hawthorne was not present. She had an overdue pregnancy and was too emotionally distraught. She would become more distraught a short time later, after Dr. Pierce’s death, when she and her husband were fired, kicked out of their home next to the main office and threatened with deportation. She would become more distraught just a few hours later when, after all the stress she endured, she miscarried her beautiful, perfectly-formed baby girl. She would become more distraught later, when, out of poverty, they couldn’t afford a burial plot and asked to have their dead White baby buried on a small unused portion of the NA property. Gliebe refused.

By far, the second worst decision ever made was to allow Strom to speak at Dr. Pierce’s funeral, where he delivered the most inappropriate eulogy I have ever heard in my lifetime. What does a prolonged and detailed discussion of brain parasites have to do with the life of Dr. Pierce? I kept looking over at Dr. Pierce’s grandchildren to see if they were traumatized by having some creepy man at their Paw-Paw’s funeral describe how insects furrow their way inside human grey matter but fortunately they, like the rest of us, had no idea what the fuck he was going on about.

Ben Vinyard[/QUOTE]

The baby was not miscarried it was full term or close to it. She died because of an incompetant doctor who allowed her to strangle because the chord was wrapped around her neck. My baby Dresden would have also died has she not been saved by an emergency C section. Going through a vaginal birth with a the chord around its neck often either kills a baby or leaves them mentally damaged from lack of oxygen.

Though I can sympathize about how emotional stress can impact a woman's early stages of pregnancy, Amanda's baby was too far along to have been killed by stress. The loss of that little white baby was tragic enough , please dont lose credibility in your story by implying that somehow someone killed her by upsetting her mother. Lets stick to the facts.

Just a question, didnt Bob Hawthorne own some sort of apartment building in Merlinton ( sp) .

Apri Gaede

[QUOTE=NorWind]Is this true? Every version I've read from Streed, Roper, Jerry Abbott, DeMaris, etc. says that Dr. Pierce deliberately named no successor because he didn't think any were qualified. If he named Gliebe, a relative outsider from Cleveland, wouldn't Pierce have informed his staff? I gather he wanted it run by the board until some great man rose through the ranks. [/QUOTE]
Dr. Pierce named no one as his successor. In the weeks before he died, he went somewhat out of his way to make it clear that he would not do so.

I spoke with Dr. Bob about this, and he and I remember it the same way. If Erich Gliebe is claiming to be Dr. Pierce's choice for successor, then Erich Gliebe is simply, baldly lying. Gliebe got his job by the decision of the very people he would betray a year later: Fred Streed, Bob DeMarais, and Kitti Molz.

Jerry Abbott

April,

I am not a doctor nor do I pretend to be. All I know is that after the traumatic experience of her and her husband being fired from their jobs and kicked out of their home, a few hours later she lost her baby. If “miscarried” is not the proper description for a dead baby in pregnancy then I apologize for not applying the correct medical term. Neither does it excuse Gliebe’s actions, particularly the Great Leader refusing to allow a dead White baby to be buried in a remote corner of unused NA property. After all, dead White babies get in the way of tree cutting.

Yes, “Aussie Bob,” as we called him, owned a run-down apartment building in Marlinton, which he rented out. It was always a money loser for him, though. The rent he received never covered his loan payments on the building or the cost of maintenance, which was considerable. They lived next to the NA headquarters. I believe it is the same building that the new NA members are referring to as the Love Shack.

Ben Vinyard

[QUOTE=Numbers_25

You NA people are really beginning to lose it. Strip club calandars are not "family friendly." You recently invited some Identity folk to a gathering and a few of our younger ones were impressed by your intellect and organization. You guys used to publish some great material. Your representatives used to be considered among the most knowledgeable and competent in the movement.

If you don't look inward and exercise some discretion you will soon be done as a white nationalist organization with a global reach. I know you are not a religious group, and I suppose I have no right to comment about this internal strife and I mean you no disrespect. But if you can't get some morality and human decency from the WORD, please, for the good of our race, get it from somewhere...[/QUOTE]

Don't lump all NA folks into the Hillsboro Insanity. Regardless of what's been happening there, you can rest assured that there are those of us still in the organization who see what's going on, and are simply counting the minutes.

It also follows that there are a lot of ex-NA people who are waiting for this thing to blow over. You don't seriously think that these guys have the lasting power required to take the NA to the next level, do you?

There was no Hillsboro in the Turner Diaries, and neither was there a 'National Alliance'. That the NA serves as a forum to bring WNs together is it's first right to survive, and the communication/information aspects of the organization is it's second right.

Organizations like the NA have to exist because nobody is willing to take the fight to our Enemies yet. Agreed? Community and communication is all we have right now. The alternative would get most of us outgunned, outmanned, and rolled over in hours. It's a shame that the surface of the pond has scum on it, but remember that the water is still good below.

That the NA may require an overhaul is the nature of any organization. Did anybody think that Dr Pierce was going to live forever? I think that resistance could be sold or merged off to panzerfaust in some way shape or form, if anybody could bridge the bad blood there. Boy, wouldn't that be a good start.

There are many of us who do indeed work hard every day, trying to reach White folks and make a difference. Though Hillsboro has produced an abundance of amoral mysteries recently, it should be well remembered that some famous ex-members also did some real damage to the NA and a LOT of potential recruits, and they are not free of blame in my eyes.

As for the WORD, thanks, but I've got 14 of them.

[QUOTE=Ben Vinyard]April,

I am not a doctor nor do I pretend to be. All I know is that after the traumatic experience of her and her husband being fired from their jobs and kicked out of their home, a few hours later she lost her baby. If “miscarried” is not the proper description for a dead baby in pregnancy then I apologize for not applying the correct medical term. Neither does it excuse Gliebe’s actions, particularly the Great Leader refusing to allow a dead White baby to be buried in a remote corner of unused NA property. After all, dead White babies get in the way of tree cutting.

Yes, “Aussie Bob,” as we called him, owned a run-down apartment building in Marlinton, which he rented out. It was always a money loser for him, though. The rent he received never covered his loan payments on the building or the cost of maintenance, which was considerable. They lived next to the NA headquarters. I believe it is the same building that the new NA members are referring to as the Love Shack.

Ben Vinyard[/QUOTE]

Out here it is illegal to bury a person on private property. You can sprinkle ashes though you cannot bury a canister of ashes....go figure. I dont know what the law is in West Virginia. I myself cannot see a reason why that baby wasnt allowed to be buried there if it was legal.....I can only hope that Bob and Amanda were able to have children after that. I guess the whole issue really hits home with me since we almost had the same situation a few months ago with my baby.

PS>I am not trying to change the direction of this thread, just get the facts straight.

April,

In West Virginia it is perfectly legal to bury a body on private property. Mr. Roper and me personally visited the Sheriff’s Office, the District Attorney and even the guy who runs the funeral home to verify the legality. Gliebe knew this. Gliebe was informed of this. His decision was one of petty vindictiveness. (Either that or he had plans of selling the timberland even then.) Mr. Streed, not a wealthy man either, offered to pay for the burial plot out of his own money but fortunately we were able to find a family cemetery that allowed us to bury the baby at no cost. Mr. Roper and me dug the grave ourselves. I placed a Thor’s Hammer necklace that I had bought from Steve Smith in the casket for good luck. It was one of the worst days of my life.

I appreciate your concern. As a mother of some special and talented children you should be triply concerned about your Chairman’s attitude towards dead White babies and, particularly, also about the unsubstantiated rumors surrounding his child molestation investigation. The rumor, I am told, related to a recorded telephone conversation in which he gave a detailed description of a 6-year-old girl’s pretty blue panties. Not evidence of child molestation itself, but certainly a reflection of his moral integrity. I want to emphasize that this is only a rumor as far as I know, but as a mother you might want to consider it is better to error on the side of caution as far as the safety of your young daughters is involved. Certainly his moral fiber should give some circumstantial weight to your concerns.

On the brighter side, the Hawthornes have had a child, a beautiful baby girl and, though they will carry the sorrow with them every day, are moving forward with their lives.

Ben Vinyard

[QUOTE=Joe Snuffy]
If I had to take my best guess at explaining the discrepancies between the two stories (Gliebe’s and the old BOD), I would speculate that Gliebe went down to see Pierce on his deathbed, and in saying his goodbyes, Pierce maybe gave Gliebe some motivational words along the lines of “needing to take charge” and “be more of a leader”. Gliebe then interprets this as Dr. Pierce wanting him to be chairman. Or it could be he is just lying. Even if Pierce had appointed him he needs removed due to his lack of ability and his Clinton like behavior.
[/QUOTE]
Your guess about why Gliebe says what he says is of course fiction. It's the most obvious explanation, that Gliebe simply lies. Look at the other outrageous lies that he and his coterie have told.

I see Gliebe as more like Dubya than Clinton. Clinton was crooked but smart. Dubya is in over his head but bluffing his way through, and making a huge mess but retaining support from the people who habitually vote for the R-candidates (although they must be unhappy about a lot of things that Dubya has done) because as the Republican strategists say, "Where else will they go?", much as Gliebe relies on support from people who don't know what else to do except support the current titular Chairman of the NA.

Just watching and observing .

[QUOTE=SheWolfoftheNA]The baby was not miscarried it was full term or close to it. She died because of an incompetant doctor who allowed her to strangle because the chord was wrapped around her neck. My baby Dresden would have also died has she not been saved by an emergency C section. Going through a vaginal birth with a the chord around its neck often either kills a baby or leaves them mentally damaged from lack of oxygen.

Though I can sympathize about how emotional stress can impact a woman's early stages of pregnancy, Amanda's baby was too far along to have been killed by stress. The loss of that little white baby was tragic enough , please dont lose credibility in your story by implying that somehow someone killed her by upsetting her mother. Lets stick to the facts.

Just a question, didnt Bob Hawthorne own some sort of apartment building in Merlinton ( sp) .

Apri Gaede[/QUOTE]



That's not true. It doesn't matter how far along you are or how healthy the mother and the baby are. Anything can happen at any point during pregnancy. I asked my sister she's an R.N..........Pregnancy can become dagerous at ANY point and ANY amount of stress is never good. But stress in this nature is not only not good it can be very dangerous. However that's not the point. I know the couple in question here and your full of SHIT April!

The point is they were ran off! There's some facts for you to drink April. How do you like that! Do you think if that had been you in that situation you'd have been the SUPER WOMAN and produced a prefectly fine healthy baby?! I think not. That is just something a white person doesn't do to another white person in that situation I don't give a damn who you are or who the hell you THINK you are. Is Eric responsible? OF COURSE! Because Eric allowed it to happen. Does that make him killer? I'll keep my thoughts on that to myself and leave it for others to ponder upon.

[QUOTE=Aryan88]That's not true. It doesn't matter how far along you are or how healthy the mother and the baby are. Anything can happen at any point during pregnancy. I asked my sister she's an R.N..........Pregnancy can become dagerous at ANY point and ANY amount of stress is never good. But stress in this nature is not only not good it can be very dangerous. However that's not the point. I know the couple in question here and your full of SHIT April!

The point is they were ran off! There's some facts for you to drink April. How do you like that! Do you think if that had been you in that situation you'd have been the SUPER WOMAN and produced a prefectly fine healthy baby?! I think not. That is just something a white person doesn't do to another white person in that situation I don't give a damn who you are or who the hell you THINK you are. Is Eric responsible? OF COURSE! Because Eric allowed it to happen. Does that make him killer? I'll keep my thoughts on that to myself and leave it for others to ponder upon.[/QUOTE]

No need to be so hostile...jeezus. If it's true that the baby died because of its umbilical chord then it's false that it died because of stress.

[QUOTE=Aryan88]That's not true. It doesn't matter how far along you are or how healthy the mother and the baby are. Anything can happen at any point during pregnancy. I asked my sister she's an R.N..........Pregnancy can become dagerous at ANY point and ANY amount of stress is never good. But stress in this nature is not only not good it can be very dangerous. However that's not the point. I know the couple in question here and your full of SHIT April!

The point is they were ran off! There's some facts for you to drink April. How do you like that! Do you think if that had been you in that situation you'd have been the SUPER WOMAN and produced a prefectly fine healthy baby?! I think not. That is just something a white person doesn't do to another white person in that situation I don't give a damn who you are or who the hell you THINK you are. Is Eric responsible? OF COURSE! Because Eric allowed it to happen. Does that make him killer? I'll keep my thoughts on that to myself and leave it for others to ponder upon.[/QUOTE]

Calm down,

Stress can cause a miscarriage in an early stage of pregnancy. It cannot cause a full term infant to just die in the womb with no other extenuating circumstances. If there is a blow or a fall or something like that yes.

I am not defending anyone so you need to just realize that I am just trying to stick to the facts. The facts will hold more weight with some of us than wild accusations.

I certainly know that stress is hard on a pregnant mom and I sure as hell can TRY to sympathize with what it must have been like for Amanda to have to deal with all that at what should have been one of the happiest times of her life. Now if someone had pushed her down or hit her or something like that I could see how you could accuse them of killing that baby. But that is not what happened. We need to stick to FACTS now more than ever. If someone was callous and hurtful and mean to a pregnant white woman then accuse them of that, but dont try to claim that thier non physical actions just up and killed that baby. From what I understand the baby died due to lack of proper medical care during delivery. Was the extra stress of the situation good for Amanda, of course not, but I dont see how you can say that it somehow caused the baby to die. Please ask your RN sister to explain so that you can clarify it to me. I am quite open to hearing the explanation.



Aryan88, why do you continue to get so hysterical every time I post on this board?? If I am so full of shit then you shouldnt worry because I am sure that all good VNNers would eventually figure that out on their own.

Yes, Ben's story of what happened is very accurate. Because Ben had exposed Gliebe's bookkeeping irregularities and financial malfeasance to Dr. Pierce, compiling a detailed report which led to a hot verbal exchange between Ben and Erich in Dr. Pierce's office when Gliebe denied the allegations, Gliebe had it in for Ben. We all knew it. Another former NA staffer had placed a post on the Resistance message board supporting myself being named Chairman rather than Gliebe, and Gliebe was panicked, accusing everyone of being responsible, and that's one of the reasons he gave for firing the Hawthorne's, even though they didn't do it. So, the day after the Hawthornes were fired and expelled, when a Gliebe loyalist staffer ran Amanda out of her office and followed her out the door demanding to examine the personal effects of her own she was taking; the morning after their little baby girl died during delivery and neither Bob nor Amanda were capable of doing much but grieving, Ben and I went to the office to ask if they could bury their girl there on the property. Fred was sympathetic, but had to call Gliebe for the final word, and Gliebe refused that permission. I was shocked. But just as shocking was that when we asked to borrow some shovels and picks to dig the grave ourselves, Gliebe's Chief of Staff Jeff was more interested in telling Ben that he was fired, than in how the Hawthorne's were doing. Ben didn't even break stride, he could care less at that point. We were focussed on helping Bob and Amanda through their tragedy however we could. Nothing else really mattered at the moment.

So, we dug the grave for her in a country church cemetary, with the help of another member, and my wife and I took Bob and Amanda into our apartment for a couple of weeks while she recovered physically.

They're now back home in Australia, and have a beautiful baby girl, and are planning more. They, like many former NA staffers, are also members of White Revolution.

The moral of the story is that Gliebe is a pettily vindictive, paranoid piece of shit.

[QUOTE=Billy Roper]Yes, Ben's story of what happened is very accurate. Because Ben had exposed Gliebe's bookkeeping irregularities and financial malfeasance to Dr. Pierce, compiling a detailed report which led to a hot verbal exchange between Ben and Erich in Dr. Pierce's office when Gliebe denied the allegations, Gliebe had it in for Ben. We all knew it. Another former NA staffer had placed a post on the Resistance message board supporting myself being named Chairman rather than Gliebe, and Gliebe was panicked, accusing everyone of being responsible, and that's one of the reasons he gave for firing the Hawthorne's, even though they didn't do it. So, the day after the Hawthornes were fired and expelled, when a Gliebe loyalist staffer ran Amanda out of her office and followed her out the door demanding to examine the personal effects of her own she was taking; the morning after their little baby girl died during delivery and neither Bob nor Amanda were capable of doing much but grieving, Ben and I went to the office to ask if they could bury their girl there on the property. Fred was sympathetic, but had to call Gliebe for the final word, and Gliebe refused that permission. I was shocked. But just as shocking was that when we asked to borrow some shovels and picks to dig the grave ourselves, Gliebe's Chief of Staff Jeff was more interested in telling Ben that he was fired, than in how the Hawthorne's were doing. Ben didn't even break stride, he could care less at that point. We were focussed on helping Bob and Amanda through their tragedy however we could. Nothing else really mattered at the moment.

So, we dug the grave for her in a country church cemetary, with the help of another member, and my wife and I took Bob and Amanda into our apartment for a couple of weeks while she recovered physically.

They're now back home in Australia, and have a beautiful baby girl, and are planning more. They, like many former NA staffers, are also members of White Revolution.

The moral of the story is that Gliebe is a pettily vindictive, paranoid piece of shit.[/QUOTE]




I think Gliebe is paranoid of his own shadow. lol
It really is comforting to know how well Bob and Amanda are doing after such a terrible ordeal. It's good to know Billy that you were around to do the RIGHT WHITE thing in that situation.

I think Eric's days are numbered anyway as Chairman of the Alliance and even though he does have a few left that are remaining loyal to him, as the truth is exsposed more and more they will be hard pressed to defend him. Try as they may they won't be able to cover up all of Eric's shit and the trail of shit he's leaving behind.

Rumor has it that the majority of the active members in the Michigan Unit including UC have organized to stop paying dues. Erich quickly named a loyalist as new UC over the rest of the active unit members...3 or 4 people. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Aryan88]I think Gliebe is paranoid of his own shadow. lol
It really is comforting to know how well Bob and Amanda are doing after such a terrible ordeal. It's good to know Billy that you were around to do the RIGHT WHITE thing in that situation.

I think Eric's days are numbered anyway as Chairman of the Alliance and even though he does have a few left that are remaining loyal to him, as the truth is exsposed more and more they will be hard pressed to defend him. Try as they may they won't be able to cover up all of Eric's shit and the trail of shit he's leaving behind.[/QUOTE]


Let me clarify that Fred generously gave me a check to use to cover buying a casket and other burial expenses for the Hawthorne baby girl, but I believe we were able to return it uncashed because we were able to obtain a free burial plot and chip in together to buy an inexpensive casket for her. Even on the day he fired me, I told Fred that I could honestly say that he had always done what he thought was the right thing. ;-> What I'm saying is, there are a lot of sincere racialists, good White people, who remained loyal to Gliebe longer than they should have because they felt like standing up to Gliebe equaled being disloyal to Dr. Pierce, I believe. There are hundreds of good N.A. members, current and former, who I hope don't become so disappointed, frustrated, and burned out by the Gliebe scandals being revealed that they give up the fight and drop out. Our race needs them. All of us make errors in judgement, especially in trusting the wrong person, sometimes.

Despite everything which has occurred, WR would gladly open our arms in brotherhood to, say 90% of current and former N.A. members. Of the remaining 10%, half never should have been allowed in as members to begin with. For many of those who joined between 2000 and 2002, I bear some of that responsibility. The other half, I can never forgive, due to personal reasons of which they are well aware. That might make me petty in the eyes of some. That's okay. If I did otherwise, I couldn't consider myself a man, and look into my wife's eyes, as they have personally attacked her, among many other causes. For a few, say, a half dozen or so, too many bridges have been burned, and I wouldn't piss down their neck if their livers were on fire. If I ever see them face to face, someone is getting their ass kicked. It's pure and simple. But for the majority, I hope that they stay in the game and don't lose hope.

And please, if you don't get help at White Revolution, get help somewhere...

[QUOTE=IRON56] Don't lump all NA folks into the Hillsboro Insanity. Regardless of what's been happening there, you can rest assured that there are those of us still in the organization who see what's going on, and are simply counting the minutes.

It also follows that there are a lot of ex-NA people who are waiting for this thing to blow over. You don't seriously think that these guys have the lasting power required to take the NA to the next level, do you?

There was no Hillsboro in the Turner Diaries, and neither was there a 'National Alliance'. That the NA serves as a forum to bring WNs together is it's first right to survive, and the communication/information aspects of the organization is it's second right.

Organizations like the NA have to exist because nobody is willing to take the fight to our Enemies yet. Agreed? Community and communication is all we have right now. The alternative would get most of us outgunned, outmanned, and rolled over in hours. It's a shame that the surface of the pond has scum on it, but remember that the water is still good below.

That the NA may require an overhaul is the nature of any organization. Did anybody think that Dr Pierce was going to live forever? I think that resistance could be sold or merged off to panzerfaust in some way shape or form, if anybody could bridge the bad blood there. Boy, wouldn't that be a good start.

There are many of us who do indeed work hard every day, trying to reach White folks and make a difference. Though Hillsboro has produced an abundance of amoral mysteries recently, it should be well remembered that some famous ex-members also did some real damage to the NA and a LOT of potential recruits, and they are not free of blame in my eyes.[/QUOTE]
No doubt a lot of you good people have been taken in by Gliebe and Walker. But their deeds and reputation tarnish everything you do. If you give out a leaflet that says NA on it, it is tarnished. If you recruit someone, they most likely will soon leave.

Let me ask you this. Will Erich Gliebe or Shaun Walker ever be able to give effective interviews to the media? Each time they try, all of the horrible truth is going to played out on TV and in the newspapers. The disgusting facts make nice boilerplate that columnists can get from Nicole Nichol's interview and elsewhere.

i heard gleebee likes to listen to the beegee's and comb his beaver while he sings along to stayingalive, while wearing silver socks.

Ari Gliebowitz, Skipper and Billy Ropenstein are cut from the same cloth. Billy is a bit smarter than Ari but not by much. Billy and Ari are shining examples of the leadership crisis in the American racialist movement. Two idiots with zero leadership skills swimming in the same muck-ridden fishbowl, what are the chances of that?

Billy, I find it especially funny that you're in a bluster about someone saying not so nice things about your wife when you called Strom's wife every name in the book behind her back. You've gotta love how these "leaders" like to have their cake and eat it too.

Why would someone join Euro as an alternative to the NA dictatorship? Euro is a one man show which is exactly the problem the NA has. If something happened to Duke the organization would collapse. As for joining White revolution forget it! With cheesedicks like Chris Quiffy and Billy Ropenstein leading the way they are as fucked up as the NA.

Victor_SpoonbridgeAri Gliebowitz, Skipper and Billy Ropenstein are cut from the same cloth. Billy is a bit smarter than Ari but not by much. Billy and Ari are shining examples of the leadership crisis in the American racialist movement. Two idiots with zero leadership skills swimming in the same muck-ridden fishbowl, what are the chances of that?

All I can say in defense of these guys is that they tried. But I agree they ALL have failed miserably. They've shown that they are not up to the task of "leading". We need something new I feel. And we need to stop allowing anyone with White skin, a heartbeat, and a pulse to filter into our resistance. We can't just have standards on paper. We need to be living examples of what it means to be Aryans. Anything less is just hobbyist fantasy.

Say, Victor, speaking of puking what do you think about Dave Pringle? Obviously quite a lot since you slipped up and had the same IP address. It figures you wouldn't be man enough to insult Billy Roper using your own name, you cowardly piece of shit. Another defining moment in your character.

Ben Vinyard


[QUOTE=Victor_Spoonbridge]Ari Gliebowitz, Skipper and Billy Ropenstein are cut from the same cloth. Billy is a bit smarter than Ari but not by much. Billy and Ari are shining examples of the leadership crisis in the American racialist movement. Two idiots with zero leadership skills swimming in the same muck-ridden fishbowl, what are the chances of that?

Billy, I find it especially funny that you're in a bluster about someone saying not so nice things about your wife when you called Strom's wife every name in the book behind her back. You've gotta love how these "leaders" like to have their cake and eat it too.

Why would someone join Euro as an alternative to the NA dictatorship? Euro is a one man show which is exactly the problem the NA has. If something happened to Duke the organization would collapse. As for joining White revolution forget it! With cheesedicks like Chris Quiffy and Billy Ropenstein leading the way they are as fucked up as the NA.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WhiteMan4WhiteLand]Rumor has it that the majority of the active members in the Michigan Unit including UC have organized to stop paying dues. Erich quickly named a loyalist as new UC over the rest of the active unit members...3 or 4 people. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


I was wondering how much information you can give us on the Michigan situation? Seems we will be starting a new thread that will start to slander people in the Great Lakes State who just happen to be loyal National Alliance members. This is my first post but it is very obvoius that this forum is the defective epicenter of the White Nationalist movement. As far as an appointment by a Gliebe loyalist, the Unit Coordinator post was not filled by anyone. Your numbers about active membership in Michigan are incorrect as well. :rolleyes:

I thought Matt H. was UC up there. Are you saying there is no UC for MI?

[QUOTE=onetruth]I thought Matt H. was UC up there. Are you saying there is no UC for MI?[/QUOTE]

I am not sure of the status of Matt H. A Regional Membership post was created in light of the membership growth in the Northern Michigan and Upper Penninsula area; nothing more. I just wish more people in this movement would serve the 14 words instead of carrying on like a bunch of toddlers who have had thier bottle taken away.
We are doing some great work for our race in the State of Michigan and will continue to do so whoever may be in charge in Hillsboro. Just go out and serve the 14 words.

[QUOTE=Ben Vinyard]Say, Victor, speaking of puking what do you think about Dave Pringle? Obviously quite a lot since you slipped up and had the same IP address. It figures you wouldn't be man enough to insult Billy Roper using your own name, you cowardly piece of shit. Another defining moment in your character.

Ben Vinyard[/QUOTE]

What, you're not shocked that the formerly despised Pringle was received with open arms once he turned against the NA? People are highly predictable you know. He turned on the NA, and he turns on you all.

Everyone who suddenly became buddies with Pringle is as guilty of being two-faced as he is, and it serves everyone who encouraged Pringle right.

Draco,

Good point. I hope you are not including me in that list. I never cut Pringle any slack. If you go back and look at my posts you will find I always made it a point of pride to be insulting to him as did other White Revolution members after his deal with the NA fell apart. You know, Pringle used to go over to my friend’s house and brag about how he was going to take over the NA. Guess that plan kind of fell through, huh Dave? Pringle has used up all his friends; even his supporter, Doc Ellis, allegedly no longer claims him. And after his comments about EURO and Duke I doubt they would want him, either, if they ever did in the first place. He’s a man without an organization. After a few months of spamming message boards under fake names I doubt you will hear from him again. Pringle’s biggest dream was to have his name known far and wide in White Nationalist circles. Well, Pringle, I guess in an odd sort of way that dream came true. Only that name will always be associated with a foul smelling odor.

Ben Vinyard


[QUOTE=Draco]What, you're not shocked that the formerly despised Pringle was received with open arms once he turned against the NA? People are highly predictable you know. He turned on the NA, and he turns on you all.

Everyone who suddenly became buddies with Pringle is as guilty of being two-faced as he is, and it serves everyone who encouraged Pringle right.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure of the status of Matt H. A Regional Membership post was created in light of the membership growth in the Northern Michigan and Upper Penninsula area; nothing more. I just wish more people in this movement would serve the 14 words instead of carrying on like a bunch of toddlers who have had thier bottle taken away.

I'm very impressed with Northern Michigan's efforts with the NA for our Race. I'm just concerned with what's going on with the "leadership". Erich just seems to have a blatant disregard for those efforts. I'm NOT encouraging anyone to quit or stop their activism, but until we get some real answers from our leadership, why not keep our money local? Local units could accomplish so much more for the time being. This can be a temporary thing. At least until this new Committee investigates some of these charges against Gliebe and Walker. Like for one, Does Erich plan on hiring his new girlfriend on staff to living rent free on the NA property? Was a new employee needed? And if so what will she be paid? And I mean answers, not deflections and counter accusations that are non related to the question asked. Or what are Erich's specific goals for the future of the NA? What is our primary purpose? And how are we going about acheiving those goals? These are questions a real leader can answer with no problem. But I have yet to get any answers.

[QUOTE=onetruth]I'm very impressed with Northern Michigan's efforts with the NA for our Race. I'm just concerned with what's going on with the "leadership". Erich just seems to have a blatant disregard for those efforts. I'm NOT encouraging anyone to quit or stop their activism, but until we get some real answers from our leadership, why not keep our money local? Local units could accomplish so much more for the time being. This can be a temporary thing. At least until this new Committee investigates some of these charges against Gliebe and Walker. Like for one, Does Erich plan on hiring his new girlfriend on staff to living rent free on the NA property? Was a new employee needed? And if so what will she be paid? And I mean answers, not deflections and counter accusations that are non related to the question asked. Or what are Erich's specific goals for the future of the NA? What is our primary purpose? And how are we going about acheiving those goals? These are questions a real leader can answer with no problem. But I have yet to get any answers.[/QUOTE]


One of the goals that members established is that we should prepare to be self-sufficient(typo?). We realized that many organization like the International Order of the Moose, The Fraternal Order of Eagles, and even the Masons keep large portions of thier dollars in thier communities. We have many ongoing projects that will be funded with local dollars. The National Office will have to make due.
I for one do believe that the excutive committee will get to the bottom of these charges, and as everyone knows, whether you are W.R. or N.A., everything eventually comes out. This situation is like going from your teenage years to your adult years; growing up is hard to do. I think the National Alliance is going through changes and this committee will help with that. You will see a stronger National Alliance in the end.
When Dave Pringle came out to Michigan it was good to see him again. We had our N.A. meeting we all went out for pizza, and ended up at my place with about 8 other N.A. members. It was good to talk about the future of the National Alliance and how the "snowball was at the top of the hill starting to roll" regarding membership. I think that's why there was a sort of mini-revolt here in this state. Many members were floored after hearing about the Pringle resignation, myself included, but the National Alliance of Michigan will continue. The future of my kid depends on it.
You have a huge laundry list of questions that have not been answered. I cannot comment on any of them because I do not know about those situations. The National Office is in a huge mess right now no doubt about it, but if your in a row-boat in the middle of an ocean and you spring a leak, you can't jump overboard, you fix the leak. Sounds silly but that's about all we can do. You can't stand thier and mother-F&%K the leak and hope it fixes itself. :o Hopefully the Committee will start as soon as possible. Take Care

[QUOTE]One of the goals that members established is that we should prepare to be self-sufficient(typo?). We realized that many organization like the International Order of the Moose, The Fraternal Order of Eagles, and even the Masons keep large portions of thier dollars in thier communities. We have many ongoing projects that will be funded with local dollars. The National Office will have to make due.
I for one do believe that the excutive committee will get to the bottom of these charges, and as everyone knows, whether you are W.R. or N.A., everything eventually comes out. This situation is like going from your teenage years to your adult years; growing up is hard to do. I think the National Alliance is going through changes and this committee will help with that. You will see a stronger National Alliance in the end.
When Dave Pringle came out to Michigan it was good to see him again. We had our N.A. meeting we all went out for pizza, and ended up at my place with about 8 other N.A. members. It was good to talk about the future of the National Alliance and how the "snowball was at the top of the hill starting to roll" regarding membership. I think that's why there was a sort of mini-revolt here in this state. Many members were floored after hearing about the Pringle resignation, myself included, but the National Alliance of Michigan will continue. The future of my kid depends on it.
You have a huge laundry list of questions that have not been answered. I cannot comment on any of them because I do not know about those situations. The National Office is in a huge mess right now no doubt about it, but if your in a row-boat in the middle of an ocean and you spring a leak, you can't jump overboard, you fix the leak. Sounds silly but that's about all we can do. You can't stand thier and mother-F&%K the leak and hope it fixes itself. Hopefully the Committee will start as soon as possible. Take Care

Sounds like guys have your shit together up there. I admire your willingness to stick it out.

As far as my questions are concerned. It's not your job to answer them. We shouldn't even need to ask them.

I'm impressed to this day at what we as the membership have accomplished, despite the roadblocks set up by Gliebe and his poor decision making. You ever notice that him and Shaun seem to pop up locally right around when they see a unit drifting away from their strangle hold? You don't have to answer that, we both know the answer. Good luck!!!! And keep up the good work in MI.

[QUOTE=Ben Vinyard]Draco,

Good point. I hope you are not including me in that list.[/QUOTE]


No, it was more of a general critique of the posters here in general..especially on the NA forum. Pringle was a laughing stock on this very forum....then he turns on the NA...then everyone loves him on this forum. Then he turns on the people here, and well, it should've been obivous it was going to happen.

The posters here are letting their justifiable anti-NA sentiments turn them into idiots ready to jump at anything or anyone who would help them in fixing or destroying the NA.

Why resort to the sensationalist words of Pringle when one can go to Abbott, Streed, or Roper for sane and factual arguments against the NA? Like I said, people here are grasping at anything and everything they can to use against the NA, making them ripe for exploitation.

Yes, you are correct. My apologies for leaving you off the list.

Ben Vinyard

[QUOTE=Ron Stevens]As far as I can recall, you left only one person out of the list....not that I mind, but your message might be used later to construe as evidence that I cannot validly bear witness to what Dr. Pierce said at that meeting. You were to my left as I recall, seated on the bed. I was to your right, standing just left of the doorway.[/QUOTE]