....
There's so much more to talk about, but I've gotta hit the sack - been on this fuckin' thing all day. I told AE that if he did'nt start a thread on Zep soon, that I was going to. Either way, it'll get done. Definitely look forward to seeing your contributions - you sound as though you know what the hell you're talking about.

Later, my man -
Beat ya both to it :D

You spelled Zeppelin wrong.

You spelled Zeppelin wrong.
You tell him, OWG - it ain't the official Zep thread til you correct your speeling error there, Lamp. And I for one, refuse to post any material on The Great Ones until you do so!

.... ;)

I think Zeppelin was a great band, but it doesn't bother you guys that they were heavily influenced by black-derived blues, and covered a lot of black blues musicians?

I think Zeppelin was a great band, but it doesn't bother you guys that they were heavily influenced by black-derived blues, and covered a lot of black blues musicians?
Hey....Erika!! :D You decided to saunter over to a man's forum I see! We missed you! How's your sugar-daddy, Fake the.....Fake the....wtf's he calling himself now? Oh yeah, his latest incarnation is "President", huh? Boy, he's really going off the deep end, eh, sugarplum?? Woo-Woooo!!

Now to your "queery" (cute, huh?) - Nope, does'nt bother me one bit. I could give two shits what the source of their music was. All I know is that Whites loved it, and your buddies - the niggers - hated it.....and I mean they hated it. That right there's enough to make me a fan of any kind of music without ever having listened to it.

(Oh, and while your away from the bath house, be sure to check out the threads in the Main forum we've got going on your girl, Fake. Think you'll like 'em).

Led Zeppelin kicked ass. Every classic rock station in the country has special segments devoted to Led Zeppelin. Great band. White men rule. Every kid should own a bunch of Zeppelin cd's.

HoaxThis, the strange terms of endearment you use while debating are quite revealing about your personality. I think you are a bisexual or have had bisexual experiences. I would put money on it... provided you could be trusted to tell the truth or pay up, both of which I doubt.

HoaxThis, the strange terms of endearment you use while debating are quite revealing about your personality. I think you are a bisexual or have had bisexual experiences. I would put money on it... provided you could be trusted to tell the truth or pay up, both of which I doubt.Aww....come on, sugar-plum, that little tricky-wicky won't work with Uncle Hoax. Trying to co-opt my accusations and turn the tables on me? Tsk...it did'nt work when your....."companion" (I'm trying to be civil here) Fake tried it - what makes you think its gonna work when you try it? I mean, afterall, you are just a pale imitation of your Phag Phora President.....are'nt you.....Snookums? ;)

and p.s. Faggot - this is a thread on Zeppelin. You will not ruin it by being an anti in this Forum.

Let's take it over to Opp where you belong -

I have become increasingly bored by your particular brand of sado-masochistic-homo-suggestive drivel, so from now on you will be ignored. Good riddance.

I have become increasingly bored by your particular brand of sado-masochistic-homo-suggestive drivel, so from now on you will be ignored. Good riddance. Good - look for me tomorrow at your Phag Phora, little girl, 'cause I'm gonna be on your ass til your boyfriend bans me.....and that's a promise from a White man.

Meeeooowww.....

So anyway, about Zeppelin... isn't anyone bothered by the fact that they worshipped and emulated negro blues musicians?

So anyway, about Zeppelin... isn't anyone bothered by the fact that they worshipped and emulated negro blues musicians?What negro blues musicians sounded like the Zep?

What negro blues musicians sounded like the Zep?

Led Zeppelin covered a lot of negro blues musicians like Robert Johnson and "The Lemon Song" for example. Muddy Waters was another one of their influences, and there are a number of others, as well as numerous other blues covers.

Led Zeppelin covered a lot of negro blues musicians like Robert Johnson and "The Lemon Song" for example. Muddy Waters was another one of their influences, and there are a number of others, as well as numerous other blues covers.

Squeeze my lemon till the......

Niggers used to be funny till they started thinking they were human.

Blues is good funny mind pictures of segregated negro life back in the good days.

Blues is derived and adapted from Scots-Irish music.

Now whats rap derived from? Beatniks?

Led Zeppelin covered a lot of negro blues musicians like Robert Johnson and "The Lemon Song" for example. Muddy Waters was another one of their influences, and there are a number of others, as well as numerous other blues covers.But do they sound like Zep? Could the average joe, upon hearing the black musicians recognize a definitive Zep sound?

I cannot really answer this question, because it is subjective, but one thing I will say is that old-time blues was very stripped down... perhaps just one man and a guitar to my fuzzy recollection, hence different sounding from the hard rock Zep sound, though there are some unmistakable similarities in structure, style and content. You will have to listen to some internet clips of the blues artists Zeppelin listed as influences and make up your own mind.

To my ear, The Zeppelin Sound = Black Sabbath + Old Time Blues + Classical Influences + 4 Incredibly Talented Individuals

Music is a very subjective thing. It's been years since I read about, or listened to, Zep, so you'll probably have to do some reading and research on the net to come to your own conclusion.

Erika is'nt a fan of Zep at all. The little faggot is in here for one reason and one reason only: to derail this thread. He's an anti, we all know that (if you don't, re-read his prior posts). He sides with jews and niggers at every turn - just like his idol and heartthrob Fake the Bitch did when he was kind enough to drop by and bless us "white trash nazis" with his thoughts, theories, and reflections. Why this little sissy is allowed free range of the entire board to disrupt WNs in cordial conversation is anybody's guess. I emailed one of the mods and an admin over this - have yet to receive a reply. Looks like its up to us. We can continue to play this little twerp's game of "you racists listen to negro music....haha!" and have the thread completely derailed from its original purpose, or, we can get on with it and start talking about the band again. I choose the latter.

And that's my two cents.....

Catch yall tomorrow -

Led Zeppelin kicked ass. Every classic rock station in the country has special segments devoted to Led Zeppelin. Great band. White men rule. Every kid should own a bunch of Zeppelin cd's.Grateful Dead anyone?

Blues is derived and adapted from Scots-Irish music.

Now whats rap derived from? Beatniks?LOL

Ironically, I heard that could be called a predecessor to rap originated in Germany. I'm really not sure what time period, but certainly before nigger rap. I forget where I saw this, or what this music was called, but it was basically people singing vocals rapidly to the sound of a piano. Might have just been a load of shit, though.

But do they sound like Zep? Could the average joe, upon hearing the black musicians recognize a definitive Zep sound?

Sorry for my fuzzy response. I did not read your post clearly before responding. "The average joe"? ... I would have to say that the average joe on the street would probably not be aware of any similarities, but a serious Zeppelin fan like I used to be, or someone with an ear for music... they probably would notice the similarities.

Again, the similarities are more in style, structure and content, not necessarily in sound.

For example, take a song like "The Lemon Song", "How Many More Times", or any other blues cover or blues-inspired track, strip out the Black Sabbath type heavy metal rock aspects, and you would probably be left with something very similar to the original blues versions. Other songs by Zep? No, other songs would not show as noticeable an influence, as they were heavily laden with folk, classical, and indian influences in some cases. btw, here is a quote:

Their style:

Jimmy Page has said that he wanted Led Zeppelin to be "a marriage of blues, hard rock and acoustic music topped with heavy choruses" with "lots of light and shade in the music." The battle will probably rage evermore over whether Zeppelin "invented heavy metal," but it's clear that this formula of blues, hard rock and acoustic music, with lots of light and shade, is what defined Zeppelin early on. Later on, they embraced a range of styles that would now be called World music, with influences from North Africa, Jamaica and elsewhere.

Blues: Just as artists like Cream, Hendrix and the Bluesbreakers had already done, Zeppelin used Chicago and Delta blues forms as a basis for their hard rock sound. The first album is perhaps the best example of this, with its two Willie Dixon songs ("You Shook Me" and "I Can't Quit You Baby"). It's interesting to note that Dixon sued the group - and won - for infringement on the song "Whole Lotta Love" on the second album, copped from his song "You Need Love."

From here: http://www.fenderplayersclub.com/artists_lounge/featured_artists/led_zeppelin.htm

Another quote mentioning the black blues artists influencing Plant:

Robert Plant's interest in music began at an early age, entering the club scene at age fifteen. American blues artists such as Robert Johnson, Otis Rush, Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters and many more fascinated Plant as he studied their music incessantly. Rock & Roll pioneers such as Elvis and Gene Vincent were also great influences.

His style varies through the years as does his influences. Through Led Zeppelin, Plant was able to explore a variety of styles including heavy rock, folk, blues, Indian and Celtic. The quintesential rock vocalist and frontman, often immitated but never duplicated.

From here:
http://www.led-zeppelin.com/robertplant.html

Don't shoot the messenger.

Sorry for my fuzzy response. I did not read your post clearly before responding. "The average joe"? ... I would have to say that the average joe on the street would probably not be aware of any similarities, but a serious Zeppelin fan like I used to be, or someone with an ear for music... they probably would notice the similarities.

Again, the similarities are more in style, structure and content, not necessarily in sound.

For example, take a song like "The Lemon Song", "How Many More Times", or any other blues cover or blues-inspired track, strip out the Black Sabbath type heavy metal rock aspects, and you would probably be left with something very similar to the original blues versions. Other songs by Zep? No, other songs would not show as noticeable an influence, as they were heavily laden with folk, classical, and indian influences in some cases. btw, here is a quote:



From here: http://www.fenderplayersclub.com/artists_lounge/featured_artists/led_zeppelin.htm

Another quote mentioning the black blues artists influencing Plant:



From here:
http://www.led-zeppelin.com/robertplant.html

Don't shoot the messenger.Horseshit about the fuzzy response and all - you were googling your ass off, and this is the end result. Lame attempt at trying to sound like a reviewer for Rolling Stone. "Style, structure and content" - as if you know enough about Zeppelin or anyone else for that matter to be using such terminology. Fuckin' hypocrite. You're nothing but an act - trying to sound knowledgable on a subject of which you know nothing. Just like your "companion", Fake.

Gotta cut this short - it's off to work. I'll be back tonight to finish making mincemeat out of this post and whatever other nonsense you should happen to leave on the board.

Later, Phora Phag. (Oh, btw, your lover, Fake, banned me. Looks like I only get to slap you around on this board. Ah well.....)

Since the roots of the blues is in Celtic folk music, Zep can't be legitimately accused of ripping off "black" music. The niggers didn't play anything even remotely resembling the blues in Freaka; no, left to their own devices, they have never advanced beyond group caterwauling and lots of jungle bunny hopping to the savage rhythm of femurs on a hollow log.

N.B. Forrest, I've heard that blues derived from Scots-Irish music, and I don't doubt it, as the blacks have no history of guitar-based music until they came to America. However, it would take a study of the structure of original Scots-Irish music and the structure of black American blues to determine just what, if anything, original they contributed to it.

In the end, you may be correct that they merely "stole" and reshaped a white music form, as blacks themselves call guitar-based music "white man's music". Whatever the case, they probably made some changes and contributions to it, possibly even major... I honestly do not know. At any rate, Zep was heavily influenced by the black blues musicians and covered many of their songs and style, that is undeniable.

I used to be a huge Zep fan many years ago, and owned every one of their albums. I used to sit in my room for hours at a time, night after night, and dissect the sounds and patterns in their music, that is why music is a very subjective thing for me, and hard to describe with labels, though I know quite a bit about it. However, it has been years since I listened to Zep or even thought about them.

I unblocked Hoax's post just this one time because I had a feeling he was able to finally utter something relatively meaningful without curses, threats or sado-homo references, but it appears that I was wrong, though I can understand his frustration over this issue. When I was a hard-core Nazi back in 93 or so, and before I knew much about music, I remember my ex-girlfriends brother, who is a musician, telling me about the Zep/black blues connection and it threw me for a major loop. So much so that I wanted to kick his ass at the time for bursting my little bubble.

So, I can understand how some of you guys feel, but let's try not to shoot the messenger, and just stick to the facts. If anyone has anything to add about the origin of the blues being based in Scots-Irish music, then that would make a great addition to the thread.

HoaxThis, you are now going back on ignore, because you cannot be trusted to act civilized.

Led Zeppelin covered a lot of negro blues musicians like Robert Johnson and "The Lemon Song" for example. Muddy Waters was another one of their influences, and there are a number of others, as well as numerous other blues covers.


Fuck, didnt I go over this with Keystein?

Niggers, developed the blues. White men, took the blues and made it into music.

Blind Lemon Melon Dog Johnson: an old nigger picking cotton at Parchman Farm who sold his songs to a kikelstein for a $100 worth of ripple.

Led Zep kicks ass!

You spelled Zeppelin wrong.
Lead Zeppelin spelled Lead wrong :p

I unblocked Hoax's post just this one time

HoaxThis, you are now going back on ignore, because you cannot be trusted to act civilized.

Not only a candyass, but a liar as well.....

Unblocked my post "just this one time" you say? And just how many "white trash nazis" do you think you're fooling here anyway, pillow-biter? Ignore button on or not, you're reading every post I put up in this thread for the simple reason you cannot dismiss me as easily as you claim, and you and I both know it....don't we? I get under your skin - as I did Fake the Bitch's - and it shows....

So lets drop all pretenses, shall we? Your bravado is transparent enough to all those capable of reading between the lines.

I've got to make it a short night, dumplin', but I'll have plenty of time tomorrow to burrow even further beneath your fetid skin.

Fuck, didnt I go over this with Keystein?

Niggers, developed the blues. White men, took the blues and made it into music.

Blind Lemon Melon Dog Johnson: an old nigger picking cotton at Parchman Farm who sold his songs to a kikelstein for a $100 worth of ripple.

Led Zep kicks ass!Merely trying to derail the thread is all, AE.

Zeppelin Rules

I do not believe the blues is an African-American artform, but rather has its roots in Celtic folk music.

from Jimmy Cantrell piece, "Celtic Divide: The Culture of the Confederacy"
located here: http://patriotist.com/jcarch/jc20020311.htm

There is little evidence for any African musical influence on the South. That is not the same as claiming that blacks have not made significant contributions to some Southern popular or folk music forms. The contributions made by blacks simply are not pure African; rather, they are clearly mixes of African with white and AmerIndian. Even the banjo, long paraded as the apex of proof that blacks determined virtually all of Southern folk music, is not necessarily an African or New World black instrument. Just as we have a few accounts of black Africans playing a stringed instrument made from a gourd, usually in areas where earlier Arabic/Berber presence had introduced Semitic and north African Caucasian cultural ways [both groups with long histories of string instruments prominent in their folk music,] we also have accounts of a few AmerIndians in the 16th century doing the same. In addition, we know from Medieval Celtic literature of several stringed instruments that no longer exist, and the specifics of the banjo, perfect for folk music from Scotland and Ireland, may have been refined, though not invented, for precisely that purpose. Beyond that, the simple fact is that both black African and AmerIndian folk music were percussion based, not string based. The main contribution of each to Southern music naturally would be found there, and as most people know, most white Southern folk music forms made use of no percussion save slapping the fingers across the thighs or, in what is clearly a reworking of Celtic dance once the ties with the strictest traditions were lost through emigration, with the feet. To claim that tap is African is absurd; it, like clogging, is a Southern version of the various Celtic dance styles that emphasized the rhythmic taps of the toes of the shoes. It is next to impossible to imagine a Riverdance springing from any black African or black American folk community; it is easy to see how Riverdance presents the more refined, 'classical' old country version of clogging.

Black influence on Southern song and lyric forms is also greatly overemphasized. There is a story told about John McCormack, the early 20th century Irish tenor, hearing black blues for the first time. He is reported to have remarked that he knew that type of music, meaning folk songs with an emphasis on sorrow and trials, from Ireland; the significant difference to him was that the Irish 'blues' were less simplistic musically and more complex lyrically. The black blues is some form of 'da-duh da-duh Dah Dah' repeated endlessly. The lyrics also typically repeat the same few lines ['Yes, my baby done left me/ Said my baby done left me/ She done left me all alone/ Run to get some that white bone'.] Its artistry lies in its pure emotion, its simple evocation of feelings. Of course, that is also the initial claim made for the value of Southern mountain music, which is almost always more complex both musically and lyrically than the black blues. People who were raised with a folk music in which songs like 'Barbara Allen' were commonplace are unlikely to find in the considerably more simplistic black blues any great influence, even in terms of singing about terrible events and emotional scars that seem not to abate. The folk music of Ireland and Scotland feature tens of thousands of songs that relate everything from nationalistic risings to love of nature to murders of unfaithful spouses to suffering from foreign political leaders and landlords who hate Celtic peoples and culture to religious consolation.

The first time we see significant black influence on Southern white popular music is in the beginning of the rock 'n' roll era, when increasing numbers of whites had been removed from traditional local cultures and that musical heritage. The result was a music that is far from predominantly black, as is asserted everywhere; it is a mixture of black rhythm and blues, country balladry and harmony, honky-tonk snarl and twang, bluegrass energy and pace, and pure old gooshy pop. It is therefore primarily white in cultural origin. The physical, rhythmic, and verbal expressions of unbridled sexuality are the principal black contributions.

Again, I must emphasize that the chief reason so many people have fallen for the notion that Southern folk music is based greatly on black music is because of that century and a half tendency to ascribe to African origin anything in the South that cannot be proven to be English in cultural origin. Had late 19th-century folklore collectors not found 'Barbara Allen' sung by the rural folk in the northern English counties that border Scotland, instead finding the song only in Scotland and Ireland, you can bet that there would be reams of people today swearing that 'Barbara Allen' is a song that proves how most white Southern culture is little more than what whites stole from blacks and got away with because of racism.

Again, the Celtic-Southern thesis is necessary to refuting such nonsense.

It is true that ragtime and jazz are preponderantly black musical forms [the indispensable white contributions to jazz, particularly its development, are increasingly denied, for academic-cultural 'Affirmative Action' reasons.] It is also true that they are forms that could not be described as African in any way. Each is impossible without instruments and earlier musical forms developed and perfected by whites; each requires nothing specifically African, save perhaps for certain types of jazz that make extensive use of the African focus on percussion.

Another area in which black music greatly influenced the whole of America is in terms of morality. Both ragtime and jazz were initially associated with brothels and opium dens, and by the 1920s jazz was the music of the new era of recreational drugs and sexual experimentation. As various lovers of jazz have emphasized, much of the 'best' of jazz, especially that written and performed by blacks, is bound up with sexual experimentation and/or drug use, especially with attempting to express musically what the drug experience is. As jazz set up homes in most large northern cities and jazz bands toured the country, jazz, more than even Hollywood, brought the drug culture to Main Street America.

In addition, it seems inescapable that black folksongs are the principle source of mainstreaming vulgarity into popular culture. Though the Scots-Irish ballads treat various terrible events, they do so with a controlled language. There is virtually no profanity, the violence is rarely detailed, and sexual matters are discretely mentioned. Black blues, on the other hand, always featured profanity and fairly graphic descriptions of both violence and sexual practices. Especially as that pattern of increasingly vulgar language is also found in black 'word games' such as 'the dozens' and 'the signifying monkey,' it is safe to say that 'gangsta rap' is nothing new and is a pure representation of African-American culture. In fact, there are academics today, including whites, who make that case and then affirm that it is therefore racist to oppose black expression that features vulgar language replete with graphic descriptions of violent and sexual acts, exhortations to violence, and endless profanities.

Just saw the new Led Zep A&E Biography: fantastic. Interviews with their soundman Benji Le Fevre, Jack Bruce of Cream, Chris Dreja of the Yardbirds and Ann & Nancy Wilson of Heart. Film of the exterior of the house Jimmy grew up in, his current mansion, and a great interior shot of Hedley Grange, where Stairway to Heaven was recorded.

Not to be missed!

Just saw the new Led Zep A&E Biography: fantastic. Interviews with their soundman Benji Le Fevre, Jack Bruce of Cream, Chris Dreja of the Yardbirds and Ann & Nancy Wilson of Heart. Film of the exterior of the house Jimmy grew up in, his current mansion, and a great interior shot of Hedley Grange, where Stairway to Heaven was recorded.

Not to be missed!
Zeppelin on Biography? Damn, and I had to go kill my tv back in October!

Yardbirds - they sure as hell did'nt put out the greatest tracks ever released on vinyl (only had one hit - "For Your Love"), but they put out 3 of rocks finest guitarists - Page, Beck, and Clapton. For that reason alone, they're worth a listen.

If I'm not mistaken, Page owns Aleister Crowley's (he is/was a devotee of "Magick") old digs. They happen to mention that? Curious as to whether the place resembles Anton LaVey's house in SF. ;)

How's our girl Annie faring these days? Somewhat thinner? I recall seeing something about her on the 'vitz about 1/2 a year ago in which she was talking about her efforts at weight control (supposedly her obesity was the main reason for Heart's breakup. Sad story there). Believe she now raises horses in her home state (Wahington/Oregon?). Saw her on CMT a couple months back doing a duet with Wynonna Judd that was un-fuckin'-real! Wheeeeew-wie!

If I'm not mistaken, Page owns Aleister Crowley's (he is/was a devotee of "Magick") old digs. They happen to mention that? Curious as to whether the place resembles Anton LaVey's house in SF. ;)

Yeah, they mention Jimmy's Aleister Crowley fascination (Jimmy has a Thelemic link on his site, too). I know he bought Crowley's mansion on Loch Ness years ago and maybe some of his other houses. I do know he lives in a mansion built by 19th century Gothic Revival architect William Burges now; I think that's the one they filmed.

Oh, to be so rich!

How's our girl Annie fairing these days? Somewhat thinner? I recall seeing something about her on the 'vitz about 1/2 a year ago in which she was talking about her efforts at weight control (supposedly her obesity was the main reason for Heart's breakup. Sad story there). Believe she now raises horses in her home state (Wahington/Oregon?). Also saw her on CMT a couple months back doing a duet with Wynona Judd that was un-fuckin'-real! Wheeeee-wie!

She's thinner, and still looks good. They spoke of their idolization of Zep throughout the show.

I don't know if she raises horses, but she still tours with Nancy, and they just released a new Heart record.

I saw that CMT special, too: excellent. Now, those two gals can belt it out, Jack. The only thing I didn't care for was Wynonna's usual posse of nigger background howlers burning the toast. Is there NO way to escape Rastus, even for an hour?

Another incredible lady singer is the little-known Tracy Nelson: to hear her let loose on Drowning in Memories is unforgettable.

One book every serious Zep fan should read is "Hammer of the Gods" by Stephen Davis. It is the definitive work on rock's greatest band. Page says he read about the first ten pages or so, and tossed it in disgust. Says its all bullshit. I dunno - if you read between the lines, you just might detect a hint of jealousy in regards to his co-frontman, Robert Plant.

Page was a former lead guitarist for the Yardbirds and was also just about the most sought-after studio musician in Britain when Plant, Bonham, and Jones were mere newbies to the scene. Not long after Zep was formed and they started playing the clubs, women started going ga-ga over Plant with his golden locks and were directing most of their attention toward him whenever they appeared onstage......and Jimmy was none too happy about it. Plant was considered on equal footing with Page - at least from the public's standpoint. It was Jimmy's band, goddamnit - these guys would'nt have been shit without him. The book goes into this and several other things that may have given Jimmy reason to trash the book. (He was also known by people in the loop as "Led Wallet" - allegedly because of his "frugality").

Anyway, I buy most of what's written in HotG and besides, its got lots of good stories in there about the boys offstage antics while on the road. Some funny shit. Take my word - it's a great read.

Ciao -

Yardbirds were great, loved their sitar sound.

Saw them live on Catalina Island back around '66.

"Over under sideways down", was a song that should have been a #1, but people werent ready for that kind of rock back then, it was so early. But then again that was what was so good about it, not everyone was into it.

Yardbirds were great, loved their sitar sound.

Saw them live on Catalina Island back around '66.

"Over under sideways down", was a song that should have been a #1, but people werent ready for that kind of rock back then, it was so early. But then again that was what was so good about it, not everyone was into it.
I believe Clapton left the band right after the release of "For Your Love." I do know he was a serious blues man back then and hated the fact that they'd made it to the charts. At least back then he avoided fame and fortune....

How times change, eh, OWG?

Just admit you know nothing about <a href="popular%20music" onmouseover="window.status='popular music'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">popular music</a>, Alex. Stop yer cut and pasting......








How many times do we have to go over this nonsense?

Even black musicologists now acknowledge that blues and gospel are Scottish/Irish in origin,not African.The only musical forms blacks have ever created are rap and drum based music.In short,primitive crud that befits the primitive mind.

Blacks did have a hand in the development of rock but the best rock has always originated from English White guys.

As for Jazz,what little good has come out of that generally fetid form has its origins in much of the 300 year-old theme and variation tradition of Classical music.The jazzy stuff of Stravinsky,Shostakovich,Debussy,Gershwin,Prokofiev,Ravel,Copland,etc provide the few highlights in the jazz ouevre.The nigger jazz output is almost completely worthless,excepting a bit of Ellington,Armstrong and a few others.
I defy you to listen to the aural dogshit of Miles Davis,John Coltrane,Billie Holliday and the heroin-addled,incoherent,rambling output so typical of the genre.
One listen to Bach's Art of Fugue demonstrates just how pathetic the black jazz attempt at musical architecture really is.

One book every serious Zep fan should read is "Hammer of the Gods" by Stephen Davis. It is the definitive work on rock's greatest band. Page says he read about the first ten pages or so, and tossed it in disgust. Says its all bullshit. I dunno - if you read between the lines, you just might detect a hint of jealousy in regards to his co-frontman, Robert Plant.

Page was a former lead guitarist for the Yardbirds and was also just about the most sought-after studio musician in Britain when Plant, Bonham, and Jones were mere newbies to the scene. Not long after Zep was formed and they started playing the clubs, women started going ga-ga over Plant with his golden locks and were directing most of their attention toward him whenever they appeared onstage......and Jimmy was none too happy about it. Plant was considered on equal footing with Page - at least from the public's standpoint. It was Jimmy's band, goddamnit - these guys would'nt have been shit without him. The book goes into this and several other things that may have given Jimmy reason to trash the book. (He was also known by people in the loop as "Led Wallet" - allegedly because of his "frugality").

Anyway, I buy most of what's written in HotG and besides, its got lots of good stories in there about the boys offstage antics while on the road. Some funny shit. Take my word - it's a great read.

Ciao -

Good post. I didn't know Pagey was jealous of Percy; I know Jimmy got more ass than a toilet seat himself. They were two of the best looking rock gods of all time, but I can see why the girls wet their panties over Plant especially: he really was a devastatingly handsome golden boy back then. He's aged very badly, however - in contrast with Jimmy, who looks younger than 60.

Didn't know Page had a rep as a tightwad, either. Interesting! You know damn well he's rich enough to buy the Queen....

As for it being Page's band, about that there can be no doubt whatsoever. He is the creator of all that immortal music. Plant may have been the greatest heavy rock singer & frontman of them all, but without Jimmy Page and his brilliance, no one would've ever heard of him.

Good post. I didn't know Pagey was jealous of Percy; I know Jimmy got more ass than a toilet seat himself. They were two of the best looking rock gods of all time, but I can see why the girls wet their panties over Plant especially: he really was a devastatingly handsome golden boy back then. He's aged very badly, however - in contrast with Jimmy, who looks younger than 60.

Didn't know Page had a rep as a tightwad, either. Interesting! You know damn well he's rich enough to buy the Queen....

As for it being Page's band, about that there can be no doubt whatsoever. He is the creator of all that immortal music. Plant may have been the greatest heavy rock singer & frontman of them all, but without Jimmy Page and his brilliance, no one would've ever heard of him.Yeah, when they first got together, Page was undisputed Head Nigger and the rest of the boys knew it (though Peter Grant - their ex pro-wrestler of a manager would belt the shit out of any of them if they got too out of line). But like I say, Jimmy had a little problem with Bobby-boy's centerstage act with the groupies and whatever other stray ass sauntered their way. And hell yeah - they both got all the poontang they could possibly handle (I agree, Plant and Page were both good-looking on their own), but you can see Jimmy's p.o.v. It was his band! Besides, according to HotG, any resentment between them soon passed and they became good "mates."

Did you know that Page was seriously considering shitcanning Plant in the early days of the band because of his almost effeminate stage presence - especially the slow gyrations and the snapping of the fingers? Not only that, but Jimmy had serious doubt about the "masculinity" of Robert's voice itself. It did'nt take too long before Jimmy changed his mind (especially once shows started selling-out and the pussy started showing-up) and again, all was forgotten.

As far as the "Led Wallet" story goes, one example is when the boys got together the very first time in the studio to jam. Page was a Yardbirds veteran and the hottest - and highest paid - session guitarist in all Britain. The others were green to the scene and in total awe of Jimmy. They sent out for a couple cases of beer and sandwiches to last the session. After all was done, and Plant, Bonham, and Jones were preparing to vamoose, Page hit 'em up for their share of the cost of the brew and chow. And these three guys really did'nt have a pot to piss in at the time. I could'nt tell you if he's quite that tight with his money now, but that was his rep back in the days....

androgyny among the male lead singers has been a big thing in rock hasnt it? ziggy stardust, plant, the puerto rican known as Prince....

I dont care for that part of Plant's persona.

But, you guys have to admit you have many times said to yourselves, I know these guys are racists.. with all that pagan and viking stuff..

kind of makes them allegedly ripping off old nigger songs that much sweeter eh?

I mean where the fuck is old Blind Lemon Dog Johnson now eh? Cooking BBQ ins Kansas city? Picking cotton on Parchman farm? Or just pushing up daisies somewhere? What do you say Keystein eh? Them fucking evil racists ripped old niggers off? LOL Makes my day just to think of it.

Did you know that Page was seriously considering shitcanning Plant in the early days of the band because of his almost effeminate stage presence - especially the slow gyrations and the snapping of the fingers? Not only that, but Jimmy had serious doubt about the "masculinity" of Robert's voice itself. It did'nt take too long before Jimmy changed his mind (especially once shows started selling-out and the pussy started showing-up) and again, all was forgotten.

I did not know that (Johnny Carson voice). Yeah, Plant has tons of charisma, but he does have that thing where he puts one hand on his hip while gesturing like a fruit with the other..ha. When I watched the '71 NYC interview on the dvd, I was surprised at how soft & light Jimmy's voice was, and on the A&E Bio Yardbird Chris Dreja described him as "almost effete". I certainly don't think he's a poof at all; some men are just quiet. Anyway, the bio also said he was frail & sickly as a boy, and he's always been thin as a reed, so maybe that's the reason.

As far as the "Led Wallet" story goes, one example is when the boys got together the very first time in the studio to jam. Page was a Yardbirds veteran and the hottest - and highest paid - session guitarist in all Britain. The others were green to the scene and in total awe of Jimmy. They sent out for a couple cases of beer and sandwiches to last the session. After all was done, and Plant, Bonham, and Jones were preparing to vamoose, Page hit 'em up for their share of the cost of the brew and chow. And these three guys really did'nt have a pot to piss in at the time. I could'nt tell you if he's quite that tight with his money now, but that was his rep back in the days....

Funny! By the way: Plant & Bonham were nobodies at the time, but JPJ certainly wasn't. Like Pagey, he was a veteran session man, and he'd produced Donovan's hit Hurdy Gurdy Man.

....the puerto rican known as Prince....

......... LOL Makes my day just to think of it.
I read thatPr(ance+m)ince turned (Symbol) is a Degroe. In other words the result of a Negroe sperm crashing a Dego egg :eek:

I did not know that (Johnny Carson voice). Yeah, Plant has tons of charisma, but he does have that thing where he puts one hand on his hip while gesturing like a fruit with the other..ha. When I watched the '71 NYC interview on the dvd, I was surprised at how soft & light Jimmy's voice was, and on the A&E Bio Yardbird Chris Dreja described him as "almost effete". I certainly don't think he's a poof at all; some men are just quiet. Anyway, the bio also said he was frail & sickly as a boy, and he's always been thin as a reed, so maybe that's the reason.



Funny! By the way: Plant & Bonham were nobodies at the time, but JPJ certainly wasn't. Like Pagey, he was a veteran session man, and he'd produced Donovan's hit Hurdy Gurdy Man.
Appreciate the correction there, NB. In my defense, its been almost 20 years since I've read HotG, and though I loved the book, I simply can't remember all of it. Again, thanks for the refresh....

I know Page has always been soft-spoken and somewhat shy - as opposed to the camera-mugging and shit-eatin'-grin-wearing Plant - but effeminate? Don't know about that. You're right of course - at times quiet, introspective men are looked-on as being a little "light in the loafers" by the public. Gotta watch that. There just might be a little professional jealousy on Dreja's part too - especially regarding Jimmy's success with the ladies. Zep was #1 and a lot of rival bands (and ex-bandmates ) envied their phenomenal rise to fame and fortune. Maybe we should consider the source, no?

Jimmy was always sickly and very thin, yes - but a lot of it had to do with severe drug abuse. He was on smack for a number of years and I remember reading a passage in the book telling of how the area between his collarbone and neck could hold a couple teaspoons of water. I owned The Song Remains the Same on VHS years ago (since lost it and have no intention of replacing it, but that's another story), which covered the last leg of the band's '73 tour, ending in MSG where the concert footage was shot. Page look liked he could'nt have weighed more than 120 lbs. soaking wet. He certainly did'nt look good. But, if you see him now, he's regained a lot of weight and looks pretty damn healthy. A few more wrinkles and maybe an extra chin, but still, the man looks good for what he's been through (contrast Jimmy with Keith Richard - Holy Fuck!!)

Funny! By the way: Plant & Bonham were nobodies at the time, but JPJ certainly wasn't. Like Pagey, he was a veteran session man, and he'd produced Donovan's hit Hurdy Gurdy Man.


John Paul Jones was the magician behind Led Zeppelin.

Without JPJ they wouldnt be anything.

JPJ was the classically trained musician who could read music and such.

Just look at that terrible "unleaded" cd from around '94.

Thats Page & Plant without JPJ.

Listening to that CD was like eating dehydrated food without the water.

I always liked Led Zeppelin,cause they really didn't do many of those 3 minute songs for the mainstream radio,so they could squeeze in more fuckin commercials,they wrote a song for 6,8,and 10 minutes.

It was written to be enjoyed for a while,tell me thats jewish,they broke the mold on that crap,and wrote what they wanted.

Thats anti-jew to the bone- I always liked them for that,and as far as anyone claiming nigger blues roots. forget it. I don't know of any song they ever did that remotely sounded like nigger music,not one.

Blues roots,ha they must have said that bullshit for a weak moment on MTV

They did what they wanted,when they wanted,and did not compromise one little bit.

That why I liked Led Zeppelin.


There is only one group I liked better,and that was Pink Floyd,to me they were the best band ever!!!

John Paul Jones was the magician behind Led Zeppelin.

Without JPJ they wouldnt be anything.

JPJ was the classically trained musician who could read music and such.

Just look at that terrible "unleaded" cd from around '94.

Thats Page & Plant without JPJ.

Listening to that CD was like eating dehydrated food without the water.He was a fuckin' bass player for Christ's sake!! They're a dime a dozen....same thing with drummers.

You losing it on us, OWG?

He was a fuckin' bass player for Christ's sake!! They're a dime a dozen....same thing with drummers.

You losing it on us, OWG?

While Page & Plant were partying with groupies and getting high, Jones was sober doing all the work arranging Page's talent for creating memorable riffs into listenable songs.

Jones is the only one who had a formal education in music. He wasnt "just a bassist", he was in reality the guy who took a couple of amateurs and a 3 cord guitarist into the greatest rock band of all time.

While Page & Plant were partying with groupies and getting high, Jones was sober doing all the work arranging Page's talent for creating memorable riffs into listenable songs.

Jones is the only one who had a formal education in music. He wasnt "just a bassist", he was in reality the guy who took a couple of amateurs and a 3 cord guitarist into the greatest rock band of all time.One question - where did you get this info? Show me something, if you're gonna make outrageous claims such as these....

And - do you really believe Page was a "three-cord" guitarist, who - if not for the heroic efforts of that "great bass player", JPJ - would've amounted to absolutely nothing? If so, you are fuckin nutz! That's simply one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard.

I know Page has always been soft-spoken and somewhat shy - as opposed to the camera-mugging and shit-eatin'-grin-wearing Plant - but effeminate? Don't know about that. You're right of course - at times quiet, introspective men are looked-on as being a little "light in the loafers" by the public. Gotta watch that. There just might be a little professional jealousy on Dreja's part too - especially regarding Jimmy's success with the ladies. Zep was #1 and a lot of rival bands (and ex-bandmates ) envied their phenomenal rise to fame and fortune. Maybe we should consider the source, no?

Absolutely. Could be a load of sour grapes on Dreja's part.

Jimmy was always sickly and very thin, yes - but a lot of it had to do with severe drug abuse. He was on smack for a number of years and I remember reading a passage in the book telling of how the area between his collarbone and neck could hold a couple teaspoons of water. I owned The Song Remains the Same on VHS years ago (since lost it and have no intention of replacing it, but that's another story), which covered the last leg of the band's '73 tour, ending in MSG where the concert footage was shot. Page look liked he could'nt have weighed more than 120 lbs. soaking wet. He certainly did'nt look good. But, if you see him now, he's regained a lot of weight and looks pretty damn healthy. A few more wrinkles and maybe an extra chin, but still, the man looks good for what he's been through (contrast Jimmy with Keith Richard - Holy Fuck!!)

If you think he looked bad in TSRTS, you should've seen an old pic I saw yesterday in a Zep message board from when he deep into the shit: buggy-whip arms like you wouldn't believe.

I agree he looks good now. As for Richards, how the cadaverous fucker is still cadging oxygen is beyond me.

Interesting interview with Jimmy that makes it clear just how insane they were on the road:

Led Zeppelin were the kings of LA. during that period. Your excesses are the stuff of legend. How far did you go?

As far as you imagination would carry us, really. Those were days of pure hedonism. L.A. in partipular was like Sodom and Gomorrah, but it always had that vibe, even going back to the golden age of Hollywood in the Twenties and Thirties. You just ate it up and grank it down. Why not?

But sometimes I think our behavior was worse in Japan. We did things there that you just wouldn´t believa. For example, there was a night when one of us got our clothes tossed out the window and that person took advantage of the opportunity to run around on the rooftops of Japan naked. Then there was a public phone that disappeared off the streets and was found outside our doorway with all sorts of money in it. Not to mention another evening when the beauitful hand-painted scrrens in our rooms were chopped up with a samurai sword. I mean, I´m giving you three examples, but all of those things happened in a 48-hour period.

Night after night after night we had all of this stuff going on, and we got away with murder. In introspect, our Japanese hosts were probably completely horrified, but thay were so polite they just kept bowing to us. (laughs)

Where did you get the stamina?

I think there was an enormous amount of adrenaline that we were building up onstage, and we were just taking it offstage into the land of mondo bizarro. You know, you´d have someone ridinga motorcycle through a hotel hall, but that would only be exciting for 15 minutes, then it would be next and next and next.

How inportant were drugs to you during that time?

I can´t speak for the others, but for me drugs were an integral part of the whole thing, right from the beginning, right to the end. And part of the condition of drug taking is that you start thinking you´re invincible. I´ll tell you something that is absolutely crazy. I remember one night climbing out of a nine-story window in New York and sitting on one of those air conditioning units, and just looking out over the city. I was just out on my own and I thought it might be an interesting thing to do. It was totally reckless behavior. I mean, it´s great that I´m still here to have a laugh about it, but it was totally irresponsible. I could´ve died and left a lot of people I love. I´ve seen so many casualties.

But when you´re performing at a standard that is so incredible and intense, it can´t help but change your psyche. Everything is chnging and mutating every night. And sometimes you´re having nights that you just can´t believe-you just can´t believe it. And that is why we started making recordings of everything, because it was just getting so interesting. It´s going to affect you somewhat. We were abnormal people to begin with. (laugh)

And - do you really believe Page was a "three-cord" guitarist, who - if not for the heroic efforts of that "great bass player", JPJ - would've amounted to absolutely nothing? If so, you are fuckin nutz! That's simply one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard.

I have to agree. Page was the top session guitarist in London before Zep; he didn't need JPJ to teach him anything about music. Of course, Jimmy was not really a gifted guitar technician; he made plenty of mistakes on stage. What he was was a musical genius - which is infinitely more important.

Jones was more than just your run-of-the-mill bassist, however; he played keys & mandolin as well. A fine all-around player who made important (albeit secondary) contributions.

The only guy from Led Zeppelin who's making an income that doesnt come from old Zeppelin stuff is Jones. The man plays 10 different instruments, and produces hits for new bands to this day.

Need I remind you all of Jimmy Page's only real effort after Led Zeppelin? Coverdale/Page? Remember that??? Broke my CD player.

Poor Robert Plant had to rely on Phil Collins to write him music for his solo career during the 80's. After Phil stopped helping him, he had to rely on old Zep stuff and freaky 3rd world shit to sell to desparate Zep fans.

Sure the 3 were talented, but Jones was the catalyst, the overseer, who made it all come together.

The only guy from Led Zeppelin who's making an income that doesnt come from old Zeppelin stuff is Jones. The man plays 10 different instruments, and produces hits for new bands to this day.

Need I remind you all of Jimmy Page's only real effort after Led Zeppelin? Coverdale/Page? Remember that??? Broke my CD player.

Poor Robert Plant had to rely on Phil Collins to write him music for his solo career during the 80's. After Phil stopped helping him, he had to rely on old Zep stuff and freaky 3rd world shit to sell to desparate Zep fans.

Sure the 3 were talented, but Jones was the catalyst, the overseer, who made it all come together.What does it matter if JPJ is the only former Zep member making money off his own shit? I know the man's talented, but that certainly does'nt mean he was the driving force behind the band. Check out the credits for the individual tracks on all Zep releases. How often do you see JHP's name mentioned? Seems to me its all pretty much Page/Plant.

Guess you've never heard Page's "Outrider" cd - "Wasting My Time", "The Only One", "Prison Blues" - pretty decent material, IMO. Not exactly Zeppelin in their prime, but still, not a bad effort from a man who simply wants to kick back and take life a little easier. He's certainly earned it - don't ya' think?

Yeah, I guess you're right - Jones' bass work really blows away Jimmy's mickey-mouse "three-chord" guitar licks on such #s as "Dazed and Confused", "How Many More Times", "Heartbreaker", "You Shook Me", "I Can't Quit You Baby", "Since I've Been Loving You", and the beautiful, acoustic classic, "Thank You".

I will concede you this, OWG - JHP was/is a serious, multi-talented musician, and deserves credit for his contributions to Zep's legacy. But to imply that he was the brains behind the band is just plain heresy.

But, you guys have to admit you have many times said to yourselves, I know these guys are racists.. with all that pagan and viking stuff..


We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow,
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I'm coming!

Wutchu be talk'n 'bout, white muhfukka! :mad: Doze be nigga lir-....lyra-....doze be nigga wurds if'n Ah ebber dib hurd dem!

cracka' bitches....

It's time they feckin grew up.

I mean come on, Osborne is shagged out. His wife is 'doing the stuff' with younger men whose heads aren't as fucked up as his is. She is obviously shrewd as she is jewish.

It's time they feckin grew up.

I mean come on, Osborne is shagged out. His wife is 'doing the stuff' with younger men whose heads aren't as fucked up as his is. She is obviously shrewd as she is jewish.
Are you sure you're posting in the right thread, my man?