In general Alex isn't too far off the mark, but, in the case of the health insurance corporations he isn't even close to the target.

Alex, look at it this way, the health insurance corporations are getting 20% of whatever money changes hands, simply for shuffling the paper between the patient and the provider. Plus, many of these health insurance corporations are running various schemes to maximize their profits on top of the 20% they get for shuffling the paper. Nice work if you can get it!

Plus, I'm yet to see, or hear of a health insurance corporation doing anything politically supportive of legal and illegal immigration numbers reduction. The biggest drag and cause of inflation in our health care system in the US is legal and illegal immigration!

Then there is the whole matter of foreign medical doctors and nurses---someone is pushing and profiting there too.

Do you have decent health insurace Alex?

A single man your age, might be able to buy a decent health insurance policy for $500 to $700 dollars a month? That ain't cheap.

Free Market Medicine

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

Last week the congressional Joint Economic committee on which I serve held a hearing featuring two courageous medical doctors. I had the pleasure of meeting with one of the witnesses, Dr. Robert Berry, who opened a low-cost health clinic in rural Tennessee. His clinic does not accept insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid, which allows Dr. Berry to treat patients without interference from third-party government bureaucrats or HMO administrators. In other words, Dr. Berry practices medicine as most doctors did 40 years ago, when patients paid cash for ordinary services and had inexpensive catastrophic insurance for serious injuries or illnesses. As a result, Dr. Berry and his patients decide for themselves what treatment is appropriate.

Freed from HMO and government bureaucracy, Dr. Berry can focus on medicine rather than billing. Operating on a cash basis lowers his overhead considerably, allowing him to charge much lower prices than other doctors. He often charges just $35 for routine maladies, which is not much more than one’s insurance co-pay in other offices. His affordable prices enable low-income patients to see him before minor problems become serious, and unlike most doctors, Dr. Berry sees patients the same day on a walk-in basis. Yet beyond his low prices and quick appointments, Dr. Berry provides patients with excellent medical care.

While many liberals talk endlessly about medical care for the poor, Dr. Berry actually helps uninsured people every day. His patients are largely low-income working people, who cannot afford health insurance but don’t necessarily qualify for state assistance. Some of his uninsured patients have been forced to visit hospital emergency rooms for non-emergency treatment because no doctor would see them. Others disliked the long waits and inferior treatment they endured at government clinics. For many of his patients, Dr. Berry’s clinic has been a godsend.

Dr. Berry’s experience illustrates the benefits of eliminating the middleman in health care. For decades, the U.S. healthcare system was the envy of the entire world. Not coincidentally, there was far less government involvement in medicine during this time. America had the finest doctors and hospitals, patients enjoyed high quality, affordable medical care, and thousands of private charities provided health services for the poor. Doctors focused on treating patients, without the red tape and threat of lawsuits that plague the profession today. Most Americans paid cash for basic services, and had insurance only for major illnesses and accidents. This meant both doctors and patients had an incentive to keep costs down, as the patient was directly responsible for payment, rather than an HMO or government program.

We should remember that HMOs did not arise because of free-market demand, but rather because of government mandates. The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses – but not individuals – to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

While many in Congress are happy to criticize HMOs today, the public never hears how the present system was imposed upon the American people by federal law. In fact, one very prominent Senator now attacking HMOs is on record in the 1970s lauding them. As usual, government intervention in the private market failed to deliver the promised benefits and caused unintended consequences, but Congress never blames itself for the problems created by bad laws. Instead, we are told more government – in the form of “universal coverage” – is the answer.

We can hardly expect more government to cure our current health care woes. As with all goods and services, medical care is best delivered by the free market, with competition and financial incentives keeping costs down. When patients spend their own money for health care, they have a direct incentive to negotiate lower costs with their doctor. When government controls health care, all cost incentives are lost. Dr. Berry and others like him may one day be seen as consumer heroes who challenged the third-party health care system and resisted the trend toward socialized medicine in America.

Dr. Paul ain't the worst guy in the world, and he tells a nice anecdote, like the one he tells about his friend Dr. Berry. Unfortunately that's not the real world, and he is not dealing with real world costs. Let alone the cost of even one day in the hospital, or as an outpatient, getting a test or a minor procedure. The costs are going through the roof.

Remember, the cost of health insurance premiums are rising by 15% to 20% a year!

Off topic, and didn't Paul blow pretty hard about opposing the jew spy agency in the US State Department, and then vote for it???

whatever waste fraud etc the health insurance companies commit, a single government bureacracy in the absence of private health insurance companies would be worse.

identify exactly what proposition you think is in error. alex has generally opposed socialized medicine, are we talking about something more specific?

whatever waste fraud etc the health insurance companies commit, a single government bureacracy in the absence of private health insurance companies would be worse.

identify exactly what proposition you think is in error. alex has generally opposed socialized medicine, are we talking about something more specific?

If you are priced out of the market because of the rising cost of health insurance---you don't have any insurance! More and more White Americans are paying more and more for health insurance and getting less coverage!

With premiums rising by 15% to 20% a year pretty soon only the high income wealthy will be able to afford health insurance.

The Social Security Administration administers Social Security for something like less than 1 and 1/2 %---that's a heck of a lot better than 20% or more skimmed by the health insurance corporations for administering health insurance claims.

Btw, Von Mises was a jew, wasn't he... :p

In general Alex isn't too far off the mark, but, in the case of the health insurance corporations he isn't even close to the target.

Alex, look at it this way, the health insurance corporations are getting 20% of whatever money changes hands, simply for shuffling the paper between the patient and the provider. Plus, many of these health insurance corporations are running various schemes to maximize their profits on top of the 20% they get for shuffling the paper. Nice work if you can get it!

Plus, I'm yet to see, or hear of a health insurance corporation doing anything politically supportive of legal and illegal immigration numbers reduction. The biggest drag and cause of inflation in our health care system in the US is legal and illegal immigration!

Then there is the whole matter of foreign medical doctors and nurses---someone is pushing and profiting there too.

Do you have decent health insurace Alex?

A single man your age, might be able to buy a decent health insurance policy for $500 to $700 dollars a month? That ain't cheap.


Nope, swing and a miss. Remember, I wrote about health care for the better part of a decade.

You're going with the popular view - blaming private companies for symptoms, when the guilty party is the government that writes the regulations that hospitals and insurers and health care customers must go by. You've fallen for the sucker's line that health insurance costs are high due to those evil insurance companies. Nope. They're high because of government regulations. Health care could be a market like any other - decisions left to citizens making choices with their own private, earned dollars. But politicians won't allow that. Too easy to granstand, blame insurance companies, and plaudits for redistributing tax, ie stolen, money.

Good post. What Paul says is exactly true, and remember that he's a doctor.

You'll never read the truth in the health trades -- for the same reasons you won't read the truth about race anywhere else. It's not as dramatic or as dangerous, of course, but it threatens vested interests. Everybody pretends that governemnt isn't the problem...but it is.

How did businesses get involved in health care in the first place? Where's the logical connection there? Why does your business offer you health benefits? Why isn't that your private concern? Well, because the government imposed wage and price controls back in WWII, so health benefits were a way to artificially wage raises. That sad legacy of mixing things better separate underlies a lot of the problem today.

It's like the doc outside the system says: you should pay as you go for ordinary care, and pay a little to an insurance company against the chance of major incapacitation. But that wouldn't make the government any money, so they do their very best to outlaw it.

Health insurance isn't high priced because the inscos want to charge people that much, it's because they have to charge that much to stay in business.

Businesses don't set prices at random, they set them close to costs, because if they set them too high no one will buy, they'll go to a competitor, but if they set them too low, they won't make any profit. It is the demogoguery of a child -- hence appealing to so many childish and stupid Americans -- to blame insurance companies because they are forced by law to live by regulations written in by do-gooder demagogues.

Nope, swing and a miss. Remember, I wrote about health care for the better part of a decade.

You're going with the popular view - blaming private companies for symptoms, when the guilty party is the government that writes the regulations that hospitals and insurers and health care customers must go by. You've fallen for the sucker's line that health insurance costs are high due to those evil insurance companies. Nope. They're high because of government regulations. Health care could be a market like any other - decisions left to citizens making choices with their own private, earned dollars. But politicians won't allow that. Too easy to granstand, blame insurance companies, and plaudits for redistributing tax, ie stolen, money.

Beg to differ. I've been part of a PPO for over twenty years. The biggest increases in my policy have been in the last four years... over 50 percent... ouch.. Talked to my agent and he candidly told me that illegals and uninsured Americans in my metro area are what is really bringing up the costs. He said insurance companies have learned to deal with govreg... it's the illegals/uninsureds in the emergency room and beyond that are the problem.

whatever waste fraud etc the health insurance companies commit, a single government bureacracy in the absence of private health insurance companies would be worse.

identify exactly what proposition you think is in error. alex has generally opposed socialized medicine, are we talking about something more specific?

These guys are in bed together already. Insurance is regulated by the states... it's the kiss my ass I'll kiss yours routine.

Beg to differ. I've been part of a PPO for over twenty years. The biggest increases in my policy have been in the last four years... over 50 percent... ouch.. Talked to my agent and he candidly told me that illegals and uninsured citizens in my metro area are what is really bringing up the costs. He said insurance companies have learned to deal with govreg... it's the illegals in the emergency room and beyond that are the problem.
The government requires hospitals to treat illegals. They all claim to be uninsured(whether they are or not) and those patients who present insurance cards have to pick up the tab for them. So the insurance companies have to ´pay for total cost of medical care for EVERYONE minus what is covered by medicare and medicaid-since TNSTAAFL someone has to pay. So if we disregard malpractice suits than the real culprit is the government that allows illegals to enter the US, remain here and requires hospital to treat them. Or is there something equally obvious that I'm missing?

Businesses don't set prices at random, they set them close to costs, because if they set them too high no one will buy, they'll go to a competitor, but if they set them too low, they won't make any profit. It is the demogoguery of a child -- hence appealing to so many childish and stupid Americans -- to blame insurance companies because they are forced by law to live by regulations written in by do-gooder demagogues.

Insurance is hardly a market animal. It is REGULATED, REGULATED, REGULATED for both good and bad reasons. Jew Spitzer saw through their charade in NY as well as AG's elsewhere. Took a self promoting Jew like him to decipher the mess that his brethren and white scam artists create.

Health care is not just another commodity. White middle class and working class people can lose all they worked for because of tragic illness. What we need at a minimum is catastropic health care for all US citizens. Not only would this keep from destroying tens of thousands of white households every year, it would also be a boon to small and medium businesses who are disadvantaged by having to pay large insurance premiums for many of their workers.

The government requires hospitals to treat illegals. They all claim to be uninsured(whether they are or not) and those patients who present insurance cards have to pick up the tab for them. So the insurance companies have to ´pay for total cost of medical care for EVERYONE minus what is covered by medicare and medicaid-since TNSTAAFL someone has to pay. So if we disregard malpractice suits than the real culprit is the government that allows illegals to enter the US, remain here and requires hospital to treat them. Or is there something equally obvious that I'm missing?

Your not missing a thing. Malpractice is a bug bear of the conservative right. Ninety percent of all lawsuits (health related included) are corporations vs corporations. The US allows illegals because interests within the GOP and Dems benefit from this. The cost of illegal immigration is over 85 billion dollars a year and growing.

Insurance is hardly a market animal. It is REGULATED, REGULATED, REGULATED for both good and bad reasons.
Every aboveground business in the US is regulated.They may not be REGULATED, REGULATED, REGULATED, but they are still regulated. Are you saying health insurance companies are regulated to the point where there is no competitive market among them? Also I think regulation of insurance companies is one of few areas of commerce where regulation is left entirely to the States, so the degree of regulation should vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

If the Hospital’s are required by law" to treat un-insured individuals, so be it. Why pay the premium? :D

If the Hospital’s are required by law" to treat un-insured individuals, so be it. Why pay the premium? :D

If you don't have a cent go for it. If you have a home or some money saved you are in trouble. If you've been thrifty and have alot you're fucked.

Every aboveground business in the US is regulated.They may not be REGULATED, REGULATED, REGULATED, but they are still regulated. Are you saying health insurance companies are regulated to the point where there is no competitive market among them? Also I think regulation of insurance companies is one of few areas of commerce where regulation is left entirely to the States, so the degree of regulation should vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Insurance companies not only insure, they are also investment vehicles. They are regulated by the states and I think certain of their functions are regulated by the feds. Alot of what's known as derivatives have been created from the bundling of insurance money by a number of brokerages into a variety of investment instruments. What Polybius said about off the top margins for premiums is essentially true. As for the question of competition, they are more like an oligopoly with alot of elbow room to fetch for the spoils.

Gen. Smedley Butler said, "war is a racket" - he should have added insurance.

Insurance company , like a bookie-plays the middleman, taking bets, winner/loser 50-50, he gets the vig. 10%. Insurance company doesn’t produce, their return is 1000% profit, Backed by the government – like the bank, backed by FDIC- whenever the Insurance is overwhelmed by some endemic catastrophe, in steps in the taxpayers. Like the twin towers, the Government declared war rather than treated as a domestic crime-- it negated Insurance Company for coverage-- passed it on to the sheeple. As is with natural disaster hurricane and such, state of emergency is declared.


Deregulation is deemed magical, for like magic, the barriers are torn down so the vampires can swarm in, to perpetrate the very abuses which brought about regulation in the first place!
Privatization allows the vampires to deal with former government agencies as they deal with their non government victims, with the additional benefit that government becomes their servant.

Tort reform needs to enacted to reduce health care cost. Unfortunately, the trial lawyers have one of the most well-financed lobbying groups in Washington. Many legislators are also lawyers.

Doctors often perform many expensive, unnecessary tests just to keep themselves out of court.