Background reading (optional):
http://www.amren.com/xtian.htm


To be clear:

1. This poll is NOT about whether Christianity is TRUE or FALSE.

2. This poll is about whether Christianity is, or has been, on balance, GOOD or BAD for Whites!

This is a public poll. Don't be a wuss. Vote!

Please explain your position if you can. Extra points for avoiding ad hominem. Thanks!

it may look awful today, but on the net a good thing.

see my other posts.

looking forward to the well reasoned comments of others.

I voted for 5 because nowadays itz literally killing us. The Christians whose brotherly spirit led them to invite Bantu apes to Lewiston to rape White women should be lynched even before the Bantus (who after all were doing whatz natural for them).

Weathervane of the times is an intellectually tempting alternative, but begs the question: who or what makes "the times." The kikenmedia can't do it all by itself.

I voted for 5 because nowadays itz literally killing us. The Christians whose brotherly spirit led them to invite Bantu apes to Lewiston to rape White women should be lynched even before the Bantus (who after all were doing whatz natural for them).

Weathervane of the times is an intellectually tempting alternative, but begs the question: who or what makes "the times." The kikenmedia can't do it all by itself.

Id say a mixed bag. Its probably atleast kept some men and women more "marriage worthy material".

I just thinking about the four pro and con articles at http://www.amren.com/xtian.htm: It's funny how different people can look at the exact same history, agree on many if most of the basic historical points, and then disagree on their overall conclusion.
Id say a mixed bag. Its probably atleast kept some men and women more "marriage worthy material".
The potential to make our kinsfolk marriage material, or as I think E. Michael Jones more broadly called it, the Culture of Continence--this is one thing that ought to make Christianity interesting to a White nationalist, even though to an agnostic one like myself.

This is a good subject that needs discussion. I voted that Christianity is a foundation for the West because it was our foundation beginning at Plymouth Rock. America was built on Christian principles! It was the anti-thesis of the Talmud and still is. HOWEVER, today it is no longer what it once was. Preachers have greatly distorted it with their lies and blasphemy against The Truth.

Our Founding Fathers believed that a widespread faith in God was the true source of America's greatness. They would see todays war against Christianity by our Jewish controlled government, our educational systems, the media, forced integration and throughout our culture as a grave threat to America's survival as a free nation.

What has happened since Christian principles were removed from American public life starting in 1962?

Id say a mixed bag. Its probably atleast kept some men and women more "marriage worthy material".


You have to admit, there are a lot of white Christian families that have more children than non-religous, but then most religious people do tend to have more children anyway.

Mr. Spengler,

I am just checking to see if you had made an appointment with a Dentist yet? Maybe He could direct you to a Plastic Surgeon for the ears. Then maybe you could.......Oh Fuck it.

It was only in the last 50 years we decided it was a good idea to let blue gummed sub-saharan Af'icans and other non-whites into our fair nation for no good reason at all...

It was in the last 50 years that all the chickens came home to roost for 500+ years of European christian missionaries going to every shanty and sewer on earth laying out the welcome mat.

Shoot, now that I think about it, laying out that welcome mat was communism, they just hadn't the wit to think of it that way. But when you run around the world telling everyone "we're all brothers" can you be too surprised when a stray continent or two decide to take you at your word and show up on your front porch?

Destructive as communism. Maybe more.

Spengler,

I agree to disagree politely. The whole message of Christian universalism comes down to borders not mattering - and the Christian missionaries knew this because they were overturning LOCAL spirits & deities all over the world.

But do you not admit as much yourself? Viz:

It was only after WWII and the total demonization of National Socialism that the Jews browbeat and guilt tripped us into accepting the world's refuse.

Which means it was BEFORE WWII that Christian Americans let the Jews in to do the guilt-tripping.

Got to connect the dots, m'friend!

The Bible says that if a man wants your shirt, you should not only give him your shirt but your coat as well. It tells us that if someone hits you on the cheek, you should turn the other cheek for him to hit.

In conclusion: let yourself and your race be killed if someone wants to do it. You will get your reward in heaven.

Worse than communism....

And I should add: it is not Christianity that has made Whites good. It is White genes that have made Whites good.

The Bible says that if a man wants your shirt, you should not only give him your shirt but your coat as well. It tells us that if someone hits you on the cheek, you should turn the other cheek for him to hit.

In conclusion: let yourself and your race be killed if someone wants to do it. You will get your reward in heaven.

Worse than communism....

And I should add: it is not Christianity that has made Whites good. It is White genes that have made Whites good.

True enough. Now is it possible that it was White genes in part that made Whites adopt Christianity? And is it also possible that it is White genes that predispose us to Race-suicide?

Reward in heaven? The Mussies get an eternal hard-on in Paradise which they will certainly need to satisfy their 72 voracious virgins. Yet you don't see the ragheads and slopes who've adopted Islam turning the other cheek too often. They don't have White genes.

Now is it possible that it was White genes in part that made Whites adopt Christianity? And is it also possible that it is White genes that predispose us to Race-suicide?


EXCELLENT QUESTION!

The PIES (proto-indo-european-speaking) Peoples always had a dualistic deity in their religions, we know that from the information on digs that are coming in now. (To early for websites? Let me check.)

PIES People's religions were based on a "twin" version of yourself. The "bad" one is killed so the "good" one can be more effective and (of course) be a better person. Initiation was a process that found your better nature and destroyed the part of you that might be getting in the way of your progress. The best-known archetype for this is blue-eyed Osiris. But the point here is that even though Osiris figures in the Pyramid Texts (oldest known religious texts on earth at 5000+ years back & counting) the basic character is older still.

So to turn your question around somewhat: Was Christianity doctored specifically for whites knowing their tendencies were in that direction? To turn it against them, as a sort of theological ju-jitsu?

PIES People and their religion of rebirth/resurrection might go back as far as white genes entering Europe, say 40-45,000 years ago. So enemies of this particular stock had plenty of time to devise a weapon. The possibility should be considered.

EXCELLENT QUESTION!

The PIES (proto-indo-european-speaking) Peoples always had a dualistic deity in their religions, we know that from the information on digs that are coming in now. (To early for websites? Let me check.)

PIES People's religions were based on a "twin" version of yourself. The "bad" one is killed so the "good" one can be more effective and (of course) be a better person. Initiation was a process that found your better nature and destroyed the part of you that might be getting in the way of your progress. The best-known archetype for this is blue-eyed Osiris. But the point here is that even though Osiris figures in the Pyramid Texts (oldest known religious texts on earth at 5000+ years back & counting) the basic character is older still.

So to turn your question around somewhat: Was Christianity doctored specifically for whites knowing their tendencies were in that direction? To turn it against them, as a sort of theological ju-jitsu?

PIES People and their religion of rebirth/resurrection might go back as far as white genes entering Europe, say 40-45,000 years ago. So enemies of this particular stock had plenty of time to devise a weapon. The possibility should be considered.

great post. is it possible however that the idea of death and rebirth and application to that in religious context is even more primitive than the divergence of the races?

Reward in heaven? The Mussies get an eternal hard-on in Paradise which they will certainly need to satisfy their 72 voracious virgins. Yet you don't see the ragheads and slopes who've adopted Islam turning the other cheek too often. They don't have White genes.

A comment on that: you hear about those virgins in Paradise often, but it is mainly a way for neocons and other ZOGers to discredit the legitimate demands of al-Qaeda and other Arab nationalists. Their motivations are found in the real world, and only afterward dressed in religious language. I have seen a lot of Arab propaganda, and never have those virgins been mentioned. I suspect very few believe in them, and it's just some smaller passage in the Qu'ran that they have to pretend to believe in since you can't very well erase it from the book. Kind of like the most unbelievable parts of the Bible, that most Christians will avoid talking about since they don't believe in them, but are not allowed to openly dispute.

Yes, White genes...I am reminded of that study where White babies were shown to be the most accepting of members of other races, while Jewish babies cried the most when forced to suffer the presence of stinking goyim. I do believe that we are indeed the most individualistic, and therefore also the most universalist and globalist of all races, because of our genes. It is a huge problem, and one that can only be neutralized by facing an enormous cost in loss of blood and territory. On the positive side I don't think we are far from that scenario.

A comment on that: you hear about those virgins in Paradise often, but it is mainly a way for neocons and other ZOGers to discredit the legitimate demands of al-Qaeda and other Arab nationalists. Their motivations are found in the real world, and only afterward dressed in religious language. I have seen a lot of Arab propaganda, and never have those virgins been mentioned. I suspect very few believe in them, and it's just some smaller passage in the Qu'ran that they have to pretend to believe in since you can't very well erase it from the book. Kind of like the most unbelievable parts of the Bible, that most Christians will avoid talking about since they don't believe in them, but are not allowed to openly dispute.

Yes, White genes...I am reminded of that study where White babies were shown to be the most accepting of members of other races, while Jewish babies cried the most when forced to suffer the presence of stinking goyim. I do believe that we are indeed the most individualistic, and therefore also the most universalist and globalist of all races, because of our genes. It is a huge problem, and one that can only be neutralized by facing an enormous cost in loss of blood and territory. On the positive side I don't think we are far from that scenario.

I cant remember where I read this, but it was a discussion of how Europeans esp in the north could ignore aliens because they would not survive the winter. Whereas in more temperate realms, invaders have to be driven off. SO there you have the more warlike nature of the darker races. Or subraces if you want to chuck Meds in with that, as I think the generalization holds.

On the other hand, the White race in general and Nords specifically seem to have incredible social harmony and cooperation. Scandanavia is good evidence of that. What other countries have made socialism look so good. None. We must not let the Jews keep exploiting that trait. It is both a strength and a weakness. Tegether we will win.

So to turn your question around somewhat: Was Christianity doctored specifically for whites knowing their tendencies were in that direction? To turn it against them, as a sort of theological ju-jitsu?
PIES People and their religion of rebirth/resurrection might go back as far as white genes entering Europe, say 40-45,000 years ago. So enemies of this particular stock had plenty of time to devise a weapon. The possibility should be considered.

Absolutely. If not already painfully apparent, theology is not my particular expertise, but there is much in martyr Alfred Rosenberg's Mythos that seems to be along the general lines of what you're saying:

The great personality of Jesus Christ, whatever form it might have taken originally, was distorted and confused immediately after his death with all the rubbish of Jewish and African life. In the near east, Rome ruled with great firmness and exacted the taxes efficiently. Accordingly, among their subject populations there arose the desire for a liberator and leader of the slaves; hence the legend of Christos. Beginning in Asia Minor, this Christos myth spread to Palestine, where it became linked with Jewish messianic yearnings, and was finally attached to the personality of Jesus. Besides his own utterances, there were falsely attributed to him the words and doctrines of near eastern prophets and, ironically indeed, in the form of an extension of ancient Aryan moral precepts; for example, the nine commandment table which had already been appropriated by the Jews as their ten prohibitions. In this manner was Galilee joined with the whole near east.

The Christian movement, disrupting old forms, seemed to the Pharisee Saul to hold great promise of practical usefulness. In a sudden decision he joined its ranks and, possessed by an unrestrained fanaticism, he preached international revolution against the Roman empire. In spite of all subsequent attempts at reform, his teachings still remain the Jewish spiritual basis, the Talmudic oriental aspect of both the catholic and the Lutheran churches.

Paul accomplished something which is never admitted in churchly circles. He made the suppressed Jewish national rebellion internationally effective, thus paving the way for the further spread of racial chaos in the ancient world. The Jews in Rome knew very well what they were about when they placed their synagogues at his disposal as places wherein he could make his proselytising speeches.

The fact that Paul, despite occasional criticism of the Jews, knew quite well that he served a Jewish cause is to be seen in several all too candid passages in his letters:

[...]

The Gospel of saint John, which still retains an aristocratic spirit, strove to defend Christianity against this collective bastardisation, orientalisation, and Judaisation. About the year 150, Markion, who was a Greek, once again represented the Nordic idea of a world order based on organic tension and hierarchical structure. This was in direct contrast to the Semitic conception of a capricious god who exercised a boundless despotism. Marcion therefore rejected the old testament as the book of laws of so false a deity. Similar efforts were made by a few of the Gnostics. But Rome, now racially polluted beyond redemption, was utterly committed to Africa and Syria, and smothered the simple essence of Jesus with the accretions of late Roman goals of world empire and ecumenical church.

The conflicts of the earliest centuries of our era are not to be understood except as struggles of racial souls against the Hydra headed racial chaos. In this the near eastern amalgam of superstition, insane magic and sensual mysteries gathered to itself all that was chaotic, broken, and degenerate, thus infecting Christianity with that schismatic character which still afflicts it to this day. Thus a servile religion, its true nature disguised through the misuse of the great personality of Jesus, entered Europe. Emergent Christianity, derived from a multiplicity of sources, demonstrated an astounding combination of abstract spirituality and demonic sorcery, as well as exceptional powers of infiltration irrespective of other currents which were assimilated in it. The idea of the trinity, for example, was familiar to many of the peoples of the Mediterranean basin in the form of the father, the mother and the son, and in the precept Everything divides threefold. The mother symbolised the fertile earth, the father the creative principle of light. Now, in place of the mother there appears the holy ghost as a conscious retreat from the purely physical. Such was the hagion pneuma of the Greeks, the prana of the Indians. This spirituality and its emphasis were not rooted in a racial national ground conditioned by the polarity of organic life. Instead it became a force without direction.

[...]

Abstract spirituality, however, was flanked on each side by all the magic of Asia Minor, Syria and Africa. The demons which were driven out by Jesus and passed into the swine; the calming of the stormy sea at his command; his certified resurrection from the dead; his ascent into heaven -- all these were the real point of departure for Christianity, and undoubtedly greatly strengthened the ability to endure much suffering.

Thus the world did not proceed from the life of the saviour (soter) but from his death and its miraculous consequences. This is the single motif of the Pauline epistles. Goethe, on the contrary, held that it was the life of Christ which was important, not his death. In this he was attesting to the soul of the Germanic west expressed in Positive Christianity, as opposed to negative Christianity based on priesthood and witch mania and deriving from Etruscan Asiatic concepts.

The old Syrian Jewish eastern church system has dethroned itself: starting from a dogma which did not correspond to the laws of spiritual structure of the Nordic west, in the effort to push to one side the culture carrying and creating ideas of the Nordic race -- honour, freedom and duty -- or to become evangelistic, this process of poisoning has led many times to the gravest disasters. Today we recognise that the highest central values of the Roman and protestant churches, as a negative form of Christianity, do not correspond to our soul, that they stand in the way of the organic powers of the peoples determined by the Nordic race, that they have to make way for the latter, must allow themselves to be revalued in the sense of a Germanic Christianity. This is the meaning of the present search after religious truth.

With its assertion of the creation of the world from nothing by a god, the Jewish Roman doctrine proclaims a causal link between creator and creature. It thus transforms an outlook only applicable to this world into the metaphysical realm. Even today, it asserts its position, that it represents the creator. The Germanic spirit has been involved in conflict with this monstrous fundamental principle from the first. Even the oldest Nordic creation myth, the Indian one, does not recognise the idea of nothingness. It speaks only of a fluctuation, change, chaos. It conceives the cosmos as having arisen from an ordering principle working against chaos. It reflects on the idea of one who brings order, but not one who creates something out of an original void. It rejects creation EX NIHILO with the rhetorical question, From whence come creation and creator?...

Indian monism was actually born of a sharp dualism: the soul alone was regarded as essential: matter, as a delusion which is to be overcome. A creation of matter, even from nothing, would have appeared to every Aryan Indian as blasphemous materialism. In the Indian myth of creation, a similar mood prevails as in Hellas and Germania: chaos orders itself to a will, under a law, but a world never arises from nothing, as the Syrian African desert fathers taught and Rome took over with its demon Jehovah. Schiller's assertion:

If I think of god, I give up the creator,

signifies in the concisest form the clear rejection by the Aryan Nordic soul of the magical linking of creator and creature, as god and honourless creature. Rome has blended Isis, Horus, Yahweh, Platon, Aristoteles, Jesus, Thomas, and so on. Rome wishes to force this version of being as such onto the empirical existence of races and peoples. Where this is not successful, Rome will cause it to seep in by flattering falsifications: crippling our organic existence. It then gathers all those who are crippled spiritually and racially under the catholic roof.

http://www.ety.com/HRP/booksonline/mythos/mythostoc.htm

Definitely the worst farrago of filth ever foisted on Aryans. We will never be truly free of the jewish meance so long as the christian 5th Column remains in our midst. To think, people who BELIEVE that a dead-kike-wino-faggot-on-a-stick is the Supreme Being. A fool who swallows a LIE of that magnitude will believe anything except the truth.

Christianity has been a Rorschach test for White's racial health: In medieval Europe it was used to rally Whites against the Turks... the monkey on our back that it is today is nothing more than a reflection of our own decadence. The common man finds religion to be true; the wise man finds it to be false; the ruler finds it useful. It is what we make it, i.e., in our own image at the time...

Good words! But I realy think a pagan Europe would have booted the Turks out quicker and more effectively than the xians. History notes that contact with Muslims is always an open-door to heresy; the earlier Templars got their start in the Crusades, made a fortune, worshiped Baphomet and got themselves killed. Had they been pagan from the start, the knights could have been honest about thier heathenism. Who knows? Templar knights running Europe may have saved us all.

Europeans will flounder till they realize all people need a blood & soil religion. One way or another people will get a blood & soil religion. They will get it by stealth and heresy (which wastes effort and creates dissention) or they will get it honestly and above ground (which will probably solve most of our other problems, which are only symptoms of European spiritual fragmentation.)

....Had they been pagan from the start, the knights could have been honest about thier heathenism. Who knows? Templar knights running Europe may have saved us all.

Europeans will flounder till they realize all people need a blood & soil religion. One way or another people will get a blood & soil religion. They will get it by stealth and heresy (which wastes effort and creates dissention) or they will get it honestly and above ground (which will probably solve most of our other problems, which are only symptoms of European spiritual fragmentation.)

Well said. As one whom had ancestors drawn & quartered; beheaded; garrotted; hung; and drowned; by the church for midwifery, "sorceries", keeping to their pagan beliefs, or owning land and titles the bishops coveted, I have a disliking for the church, and especially the cult of mary (Catholicism).

Torcher88 where have you been these last 2,000 years? I am surprised that you needed to ask the question since christianity has been singlehandedly responsible for the near extermination of the Aryan race.
Through it precepts of "brotherly love,equality and the meek shall inherit the earth" the Aryan race has been effectively emasculated and disarmed as a race.
Through the Jew inspired christinaity socialism,communism,democracy and the bizarre notion of "equal rights/human rights" have been used as tools and weapons by the Jew to weaken and destroy us.
Any Aryan who gives his allegiance to christianity is unwittingly an agent of the enemy-the eternal Jew.

Torcher88 where have you been these last 2,000 years? I am surprised that you needed to ask the question since
Greetings. The reason I asked the question was not to figure out my own position (I was the first person to vote) but to get a rough feel for the overall opinion of WNs on Christianity. The results are a bit more lopsided than I would have guessed: Approximately half of WNs so far think it is at least as destructive as communism; the other half scattered their votes. Your opinion is the most extreme of the antis so I am using it as the occasion to explain my "weathervane" position.

christianity has been singlehandedly responsible for the near extermination of the Aryan race.
What "near extermination of the Aryan race" are you referring to, let alone blaming Christianity for? If anything, Christianity actually supported the Aryan race in two major ways. First, by promoting a strongly natalist and family-oriented moral code, Christianity encouraged the population of Europe to grow rather than decline. Secondly, by providing the disparate tribes of Germans, Celts, and the mediterranean and other populations of the West with a common Faith, Christianity played a major role in rallying Europe to repel several serious non-White invasions, including those of the Turks, the Moors and the Mongols.

Through it precepts of "brotherly love,equality and the meek shall inherit the earth" the Aryan race has been effectively emasculated and disarmed as a race.

This is a stock accusation of anti-Christian WNs but it does not bear close scrutiny. The Teutonic knights, the Crusaders as well as the Spanish Conquistadors are scarcely examples of emasculation and disarmament. Not only did self-identified Christian soldiers defend Europe time and again, but they also spearheaded White expansion during the age of Exploration and Colonization. In short, what Christianity effectively did, was not to disarm the West but rather to unite it, and to give soldiers of the West a higher purpose which inadvertently but nevertheless actually helped to preserve the White race. It also tended to curtail or at least regulate intra-European warfare and thereby mitigate its impact. The combined effects of relative peace and stability, of the ability to repel non-White invasions, and of a healthy birth rate, is arguably what catapulted White nations to become, until recently, the indisputed rulers of the planet.

I really don't understand your qualification "emasculated and disarmed as a race" -- strong feelings of racial consciousness and common racial interests as understood by modern WNs, meaning interests beyond immediate clan and tribe, did not exist through most of European history, and Christianity can not be blamed for stifling something that did not really exist. But at any rate, if Christianity really did intend to disarm the West, it failed pretty miserably.

Through the Jew inspired christinaity socialism,communism,democracy and the bizarre notion of "equal rights/human rights" have been used as tools and weapons by the Jew to weaken and destroy us.
Although Christians do usually attribute a soul to every featherless biped, the bizarre notion of "equal rights/human rights" is really a product of the Enlightenment rather than of Christianity. Christianity not only tolerated but even justified social inequalities, both interracial and intraracial, through most of its history. Can the same be said of the atheistic humanism that has just recently surplanted Christianity?


Any Aryan who gives his allegiance to christianity is unwittingly an agent of the enemy-the eternal Jew.
If Jewish origin, as the other major thrust of the anti-christian WN argument goes, proves that modern Christianity is a tool of the Jews, then why are the Jews so hot to see Christianity die? Why is Abe Foxman beside himself shitting bricks at the very thought of Mel Gibson's movie reviving Christian consciousness?

In conclusion, I do not believe that there is an underlying negative influence lurking in Christianity from its early Jewish origins waiting until modern times to manifest itself. Nor do I believe that Christianity is a requirement for any of the positive influences that have gone along with it. Christianity can become and has become anything you make of it. It started as a strange but minor cult in a degenerate age. Then it became the Faith of the West, as which it was strong. Now it has weakened in a new degenerate age, and become a vehicle for secular humanist racial nonsense. Who knows what way this weathervane will point next. Is it not worth considering making it point our way?

Brilliant post torcher88. I agree wholeheartedly. Indeed every reigion is a weathervane to it's particular society, culture and people and Christianity is no different. Time and time again throughout history, as I've said before on this very thread, religion is changed by societal forces, not the other way around.

Thanks. When I think about the religious history of the West, two points are salient to me, and I believe both of these points should be weighed carefully by the extreme anti-Christian WNs, and to a lesser extent by the less numerous extreme pro-Christian WNs.

First, if religion is indeed essentially a weathervane (I am open to more discussion here to test my view), it follows that the political mission of WNism does not require a direct attack on this institution per se in order to prevail. If there is no need to attack Christianity per se, then there is no political justification for alienating persons of the Christian persuasion through the the sort of harsh polemic we sometimes encounter. I am not saying that anti-Christian WNs should water down their message. With the qualification of expunging needlessly inflammatory anti-Christian rhetoric, I think that anti-Christian WNs should state their piece, and let Christians worry about syntheisizing WN truths with their existing creed. So long as WN views take hold, anti-Christian WNs need not concern themselves at all over the manner in which WNism and Christianity might or might not be compatible. Let's not be dogmatically obsessed with whether our people are ideologically consistent in the way we prefer. People can and will work out, or ignore, their logical inconsistencies in their own way. Our job is strictly to bring the message of White racial consciousness and loyalty to their door.

Of course, upon the pro-Christian WNs falls the political task of bringing WN truth into their congregations as best they can.

My second point concerns the need for a moral compass in Western society. I will elaborate this point at a later time.

First, much thanks is due to those of you who have kept this argument civil and productive; those of us working overtime and/or unavailable have nonetheless been surprised it's not descended to rants.

Those of us who are non-Christian but aren't bashers (or don't try to be) will try and respond in kind when we can.

If anything, Christianity actually supported the Aryan race in two major ways. First, by promoting a strongly natalist and family-oriented moral code...

Euros had these already. We forget that Christians took advantage of the mess Rome made when it shifted work and populations around, in the process degrading family life. (It's what open-immigration and job-outsourcing is doing to America now, Rome's policies were similarly destructive.)

The real question here is whether birth rates and morality was so savaged by Rome's fall that it would never have gotten up again without Christian help. This seems unlikely; Christians admitted that when they converted the tribes, they usually allowed them to keep their customs, suitably amended with JC. Likely as not the change was minimal.

Most Christian propaganda concerning "the Heathens" refers to the situation Rome created in the Fifth and Sixth centuries. They made a mess and the Church said they fixed it! Sorry, some of us saw through that little scam.

... by providing the disparate tribes of Germans, Celts, and the mediterranean and other populations of the West with a common Faith, Christianity played a major role in rallying Europe to repel several serious non-White invasions, including those of the Turks, the Moors and the Mongols.

There's a confusion here (and in official history too) between "religious history" and "political history". Europeans were always disparate when repelling alien invaders. Athenians and Spartans and Corinthians (etc) could barely unite to chase off the Persians and their descendents were not much better dealing with the later Huns and Mongols.

Were the Popes better than Themostacles, worse, or about the same? They still had to horse-trade to get the armies going the right way. They still waited till the crack of doom to get moving. I'd say a pagan Europe would have behaved the same because the history of the Persian wars and the history of the (much later) Ottoman wars read about the same. Europeans were bad the same way and good the same way whether xian or pagan.

BTW, it should always be understood that Europeans resist consolidation. Hence the suspicion of Rome during the Crusades by local dukes was mirrored by the earlier suspicion of Athens by the other city-states during the Persian wars. Same people, same attitudes.



In short, what Christianity effectively did, was not to disarm the West but rather to unite it, and to give soldiers of the West a higher purpose which inadvertently but nevertheless actually helped to preserve the White race. It also tended to curtail or at least regulate intra-European warfare and thereby mitigate its impact.

There is nothing in ancient history to compare to the fratracidal European wars of the Christian era. From the 30 Years' War to Verdun and beyond, the brutality of European war since JC is unique. The Albigensian Crusade was the first case of white-on-white genocide and it was done with the full cooperation of the Roman Church. (And Rome even gave the world a famous quote during that one: "Kill them all, let God sort them out" came out of this campaign... and it had to do with killing whites.)

Although Christians do usually attribute a soul to every featherless biped, the bizarre notion of "equal rights/human rights" is really a product of the Enlightenment rather than of Christianity.

The Enlightenment simply took the universalism of pagan initiates and misused them. They did not understand that these traditions were never meant to refer to everyone on earth. Unfortunately, there are those who know this quite well, Masons and Zionists come to mind.

If Jewish origin, as the other major thrust of the anti-christian WN argument goes, proves that modern Christianity is a tool of the Jews, then why are the Jews so hot to see Christianity die? Why is Abe Foxman beside himself shitting bricks at the very thought of Mel Gibson's movie reviving Christian consciousness?

The Jewish origin argument very likely is a red herring; it's much easier to argue Jesus as a re-fitted Greek myth.

The Jewish distaste for Jesus is perennial and cultural; they indulge in it now because they are powerful relative to the rest of us. But it's good to ask why.

Jesus is a European archetype that goes back to the caves. Adonis and Osiris and Jason and Hercules and Orpheus and all the rest find echos in the gospels. It is an archetype of self-transformation, and internal awakening that Europeans seem to require no matter what it is called in any particular era.

The Jewish religious archetype is different: Moses the lawgiver, a fiction based on Semetic tyrants such as Hammurabi. Cold and commanding, this archetype demands only docile obedience. The longer Europeans stay Christian, it is believed, the more this archetype will replace the European archetype.

In fact, in America we are seeing this displacement right now: The "old testament" god (the Semetic archetype) is all but replacing our god of transformation as far as foreign policy goes.

Christianity can become and has become anything you make of it... Now it has weakened in a new degenerate age, and become a vehicle for secular humanist racial nonsense.

More like anything the powerful media barons want to make of it? This is all quite true, but can we see why? If Christianity is now leaning toward its darker and baser elements, might it be only a reflection of what the Powers That Be want for a rapidly-third-worldized America and Europe?

If Jesus will be a vehicle for whatever the powerful want, why not expose it for that? A clean pagan revival has more potential than yet another "awakening" if all we're doing is divorcing ourselves further from our own traditions.

Even clearer is that an honestly seperate European peoples who are oriented toward blood & soil might be a much more powerful opponent to the globalist trends of this era. Athens won't have to work to hard for an alliance against the empire this time, because the empire is everywhere! Even between our ears.

Although Christians do usually attribute a soul to every featherless biped, the bizarre notion of "equal rights/human rights" is really a product of the Enlightenment rather than of Christianity.

This correct comment illustrates why I could not vote for the weathervane choice. It all winds up being circular. Surely there's a next question coming. Is it:

Why did only Christian nations have an "Enlightenment"?

or:

Why did only European nations, which happened to be Christian, have an "Enlightenment"?

Good words! But I realy think a pagan Europe would have booted the Turks out quicker and more effectively than the xians. History notes that contact with Muslims is always an open-door to heresy; the earlier Templars got their start in the Crusades, made a fortune, worshiped Baphomet and got themselves killed. Had they been pagan from the start, the knights could have been honest about thier heathenism. Who knows? Templar knights running Europe may have saved us all.

Europeans will flounder till they realize all people need a blood & soil religion. One way or another people will get a blood & soil religion. They will get it by stealth and heresy (which wastes effort and creates dissention) or they will get it honestly and above ground (which will probably solve most of our other problems, which are only symptoms of European spiritual fragmentation.)

Ah, I see lots here I would love to discuss more, but let me disagree on one points and it is the Muslims. Not accurate to say Turks, because they only menaced Eastern Europe from Poland south to Austria and south and eastwards to Greece. Dont forget the Saracens, who were Arab Muslims not Turks. Important distinction of ethnicity. Anyways, the two turning points were the Battle of Tours with Charles the Hammer, father of Charles the Great, leading the Frankish knights, maybe that was 711 or so, which battle continued until Isabella the Catholic finally ejected the Muslims AND JEWS from Spain in 1492; and then the other turning point on "the Eastern front: was when Prince Jan Sobieski helped turn the Turks back at Vienna. Maybe as late as the Sixteenth century-- nearly 800 or 900 years later. Keep in mind however that Greece and parts of the Balkans continued even after northern Europe was spared. The Greeks did not throw off the Turks until the nineteenth century or so.

I dispute only that Euros would have been better at keeping them out as pagans. NO. After the historic victory of his father previously mentioned, Charlemagne united the Franks and allied German tribes in his role as Emperor and protector of the faith. He "protected" the faith by forcing conversion of the pagans at the point of the sword. That was very un-Christian of him, but I always find it ironic that pagans dont respect him for this very "will to power" kind of brutal empire-forging. Anyways, with the unity of Europe attained, Frankish Christianity formed the racial-cultural foundation for the defense and flourishing of Europe that lasted until some Enlightenment era fools decided to start talking about emancipating the Jews.

At one time, Christianity WAS a blood and soil religion. I submit that "Chanson de Roland" would not have been possible as a cultural artifact if the Franks were saddled with the Bullshit that passes at Christianity today.

Brilliant post torcher88. I agree wholeheartedly. Indeed every reigion is a weathervane to it's particular society, culture and people and Christianity is no different. Time and time again throughout history, as I've said before on this very thread, religion is changed by societal forces, not the other way around.

Some of the folks here could benefit from reading Spengler, and I dont mean our good fellow VNN poster here. I mean the other Spengler, author of Untergand des Abellandes, the Decline of the West. Spengler considers this question at lenght and not in the simplistic poll-driven fashion we're doing it here. Take a look folks, the book is available from any bookstore.

Somewhat of a weatherwane ... so for example did Germanics, Romanics and Slavs create their own brands of Christianity -- Protestantism, Catholicism and Orthodoxy. But it is also a force on its own. It has enhanced some traits that were perhaps already there, but through Christianity they have become much more destructive. At the same time other traits in our race have been terribly battered by sticklicking.

As for Christianity helping Europeans hold back the Turks, at least from most of Europe: yes, but what if the Turks had been Christians, eh? Christianity made Europeans rally against another religion, not another race.... Since each Christian is your brother according to the Bible, it's very hard, impossible really, to rally against non-White Christians in the long run.

Somewhat of a weatherwane ...

As for Christianity helping Europeans hold back the Turks, at least from most of Europe: yes, but what if the Turks had been Christians, eh? Christianity made Europeans rally against another religion, not another race.... Since each Christian is your brother according to the Bible, it's very hard, impossible really, to rally against non-White Christians in the long run.

Impossible? Come on, what about all the fratricidal civil wars between Whites of Christian faith? What about the classic-- the Thirty Years' war in Germany? Hell, ability to war on other Christians is one of the points of indictment about Christianity!

Think of Gangs of New York-- White warlords praying to Jesus H Christ to vanquish the Enemy-- whomever that may be, basically anybody in the way of acquiring temporal power! Then they go out and pray again in public, and start killing for Christ!

Dont think the Jews have stopped worrying about this biting them in the ass like it did so many times for centuries.

I think that even though the Greco-Roman world was onto the Jews and the threat they posed, they didnt take this wacky little group of goatherders and their phallus god seriously. Romans tolerated Jews or we wouldnt have the Diaspora today. They destroyed the Temple, but then allowed the Jews to spread like fungus. Jews were already all over the place in the Roman Empire changing money and doing their thing. They even say they were in Spain with the Romans, even though most came with the Moors.

Is it possible that Christianity is in its authentic form, anti-jewvirucide? Old tyme Christianity says Jews killed God. Can you state a worse crime than that?

It wasnt the Church that kept the Jews around. For centuries, it was the petty princes that allowed expelled Jews to take up residence elsewhere. What would happen is this: the Jews for centuries had to wear "THE BADGE." this was instituted by the Church, to identify them for the lemmings so that the lemmings would know not to trust the wicked Jew. Princes didnt mind, cuz it didnt affect their Jew revenues. What revenues were those? 1) money available for loan. Christians couldnt loan at interest, so princes had to borrow from Jews, at least until the Italians started their banks during the Renaissance at least. 2) the Jew residency tax. They had them everywhere Jews were allowed to remain. 3) Taxes on Jew trade and industry. Jews are not producers but they are famously competent traders; and trade always means excise taxes.


But sooner or later, the Jews would milk too many lemmings, and then once in a while a dead Christian child drained of blood would pop up, and the peasants would say the Jews had done it. "Ritual murder" I dont know if it really happened or not, but the peasants sure thought it did. So the peasants would riot and burn some jews, and to restore order, the princeling would have to kick their asses out, usually regretfully as he waved goodbye to his source of funds. Usually, they could be induced since the expulsion would also include a cancellation of the princeling's own debts. So that was a mitigating factor. But the Church, pretty much the only powerful voice speaking for the peasants, worked to segregate them for centuries. Jewish accounts of history will show that this is how they viewed history prior to their Emancipation by Napoleon and Bismark. Two figures who also had their plans to make money and power off the Jews.

No. If you lay the Jew problem all at the foot of Christianity, you're ignoring facts. Rather than spend so much energy here debating Christianity, we should debate our own modern day "leaders" and "princes" who protect the Jews from our righteous peasant anger.

I'm not saying Christian countries haven't fought each other. What I meant was that it would have been impossible to make all White Christian countries rally against a non-White foe if it had also been a Christian foe. Their battle against Turks and then later the Crusades were against non-Christians, but suppose the Arabs or Turks had been Christian ... then you may have had one or two countries attack them, but you wouldn't have had a big, red cape to wave before all White countries. Because that cape must be religious, not racial, as Christianity saw to.

Now imagine instead if you had had a religion that was nationalist instead of universalist; then you could have rallied in the name of race.

Good poll, but, unfortunately, most of the people voting have been brainwashed by Jewish Hollywood, television, public school, clone school (college), books, etc., into hating (and blaming the world’s evils on) Christianity.
The brainwashing is so complete and so deep-rooted that what should be so bloody obvious is not even glimpsed by them. That the simple fact that Christianity is called Judeo Christianity should scream volumes to any opened minded person – if they were open-minded, they would realize that we are talking about two different religions.
They should know (and, if they were open-minded, they would) that the West was built on Christianity and it is a masculine culture.
On the hand, Judeo Christianity is a feminine religion, and it is a complete perversion of true Christianity. But, as the Jew is cunning, he has crept into our culture, but slowly, and twisted and lied at every turn, so that most people today are brainwashed to the max.

Umm, Gabby? Post that link to the site that tries to prove Biblical Izzies were Aryans again. Last time, in the old board, I pointed out how the Biblical texts on that site showed God saying the Israelis and Judeans were brothers ... and strangely, not one CI sticklicker would write in that thread after that....


Anyway, good points made here, people. Spengler, true, never said you're automatically race-conscious just because you're a Pagan, those Romans made huge mistakes that we are all paying for today.

Exactly! And conversely you're not automatically not race-conscious if you're a Christian (I don't consider myself Christian btw).

True; however, the religion itself is universalist, not racialist. Throughout history many have ignored the universalism, but it is still there, written in stone -- no, written in the Bible, which is worse. Every Christian is your brother, we are all God's children and he loves us all, and all that. You can't get rid of it; you may pretend that it isn't there, but sooner or later someone will show up who points out the universalist aspects, and you will have to agree that he is right when he does so. It's just a timebomb waiting to happen.

It works much like socialism; many socialists have wanted to keep the dark races out of their countries, but the basic foundation of that ideology is internationalist and egalitarian, and sooner or later someone will show up at a party conference and point that out, and you have no defense against it. So the race-conscious socialists have tried arguing that it is impractical to bring in the dark races right now, maybe in the future, and couldn't we do more for them by just sending them money, etc etc ... always arguing about what is best for the darklings, never arguing what is best for their own race, which is taboo in their ideology. And of course, eventually they lose, just like the race-conscious Christians always lose in the end.

Some worthy posts here, and I appreciate all the food for thought very respectfully offered on this subject to date.

I regret I don't have a lot of personal time to compose decent responses to everything I read, but I will try to keep this thread alive and respond eventually...

What a load of crap...How much of the Bible have you ever read and studied ?

Thanks saxonrage, for making me eat my words regarding the relative mutual respect of posters on this thread in less than ten minutes.

In light of your brief and worthless post, allow me to mention that whenever I was posting what might be regarded as a semi-defense of Christianity, I was thinking of Traditional Christianity, not the historically-challenged loony-bin CI version of it.

Not a problem...However ; I have no respect whatsoever for anyone who denounces the name of Christ. You are all just foder for the fire as far as I am concerned...

The noose will fit your neck just the same as the niggers...

Luke 19:27

Not sure who was denouncing the name of Christ. My intention here was an objective examination of Christianity's impact on the White race. Most of the posters have offered measured arguments to support their positions. Surely you would not object if you really believed the truth were on your side.

It is clear that, if nothing else, Christ had the ability to face an extrordinarily frightful fate without renouncing his convictions. That is more than what can be said about most atheists, such as former loudmouth George Burdi. On the other hand, Christ's conviction is belied by your risible threats. You are a joke. Your talk of nooses only serves to confirm my guess that CIers are in need of serious professional psychological care. I never heard a Traditional Christian talk like this.

Good luck dealing with your issues.

Background reading (optional):
http://www.amren.com/xtian.htm


To be clear:

1. This poll is NOT about whether Christianity is TRUE or FALSE.

2. This poll is about whether Christianity is, or has been, on balance, GOOD or BAD for Whites!

This is a public poll. Don't be a wuss. Vote!

Please explain your position if you can. Extra points for avoiding ad hominem. Thanks!

This is an excellent question and many of us are certainly going to create controversy with our opinion on it. My view is that for some reason Jesus dying as a victim is an element which makes Christians always place themselves on the side of the so-called weak in every situation. Think about it..when they watch movies about WWII, they identify with the Jews...in the Civil Rights movement shows they identify with the Blacks..they always place themselves in the position of the ones being "picked on" and I can't help but think that a lot of this comes from the "Jesus was a victim" mindset...

If your not sure about what your replying to, perhaps you should read more before shooting off your mouth...

I made no threats. I only gave a clear view of my position. If I remember correctly all I did was ask a question of a poster on how much of the Bible that he really read or studied. Then you step in with your insulting attitude. You seem unwiling to accept the fact that there are Christians who take such a strong position. You obvioulsy are accumstomed to the Judiaized sort. Or as you call them the traditionalists. Don't like your toes stepped on ? Stay off of others beliefs then. Most adherants to Christian Identity are far more serious than any wontanist, odinist or pagan. Most of you bumpkins who hide from the truth contained in the Holy Bible do so only because to live a Christian life requires discipline. You refuse to give up your booze, foul mouths and promiscuous lifestyles for a belief that is far greater than you or your lusts. Now peddle your swill to the next queer wiling to buy into your clap trap. Maybe you'll find a butt budy there but not here pal...


You dislike it when folks make generalizations, as do I. I sirah, am descended from a long line of pagans, and find your "most christians..." to be a blatant lie. Most christians are anything but "christ like". I also think you are referring to the mormon cult when you talk about "You refuse to give up your booze, foul mouths and promiscuous lifestyles for a belief that is far greater than you or your lusts. " or perhaps you refer to Islam, because MOST christians, don't even come close to walking the walk...

If your not sure about what your replying to, perhaps you should read more before shooting off your mouth...
I have a different opinion of who's shooting off his mouth here.

I made no threats.
I agree. Talk of nooses and "foder for the fire" is better seen as bluster produced by a child's mind, one unable to control its emotions and formulate its thoughts in an intelligent way.

I only gave a clear view of my position. If I remember correctly all I did was ask a question of a poster on how much of the Bible that he really read or studied. Then you step in with your insulting attitude.
You called someone's opinion a "load of crap", and asked how much of the bible he had read. What attitude did you expect, Aquinas?

You seem unwiling to accept the fact that there are Christians who take such a strong position. You obvioulsy are accumstomed to the Judiaized sort. Or as you call them the traditionalists. Don't like your toes stepped on ? Stay off of others beliefs then.
I respect folks who have courage to back up their convictions, but incoherent, semi-literate posts on the Internet scarcely prove one's mettle.

Most adherants to Christian Identity are far more serious than any wontanist, odinist or pagan. Most of you bumpkins who hide from the truth contained in the Holy Bible do so only because to live a Christian life requires discipline. You refuse to give up your booze, foul mouths and promiscuous lifestyles for a belief that is far greater than you or your lusts.
If you had made your entrance with actual points like these, you might have gotten a warmer reception...

Now peddle your swill to the next queer wiling to buy into your clap trap. Maybe you'll find a butt budy there but not here pal...
I am not trying to peddle anything to anyone. Your insults are lame and ingorant. You obviously have nothing to contribute.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.
And just a hunch bubb ; they usually stink...



Wow, this guy denegrates into incoherent name calling just because others differ with him. He reminds me of most christians and jew-boys. No one gives a flying flip about YOUR opinion, get over it.

How long did it take you to think of all the comebacks on Cabot's post? It used to just read:
"then why do you do it yourself."

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.
And just a hunch bubb ; they usually stink...



That everyone has an opinion is a banal observation. Much more interesting is observing who can support his opinion and who cannot.

Stop lying. This is not why you hate CI...You hate CI because you hate Christ. Period. I am probably the only person you have ever heard say such a thing. So stop your lies Spengler.

And where do you get your numbers from ? What makes you think your ilk is the majority of WNs ? Come on show me your sources or shut your mouth.

Saxon Rage, don't be so modest: there are lots of reasons to hate CIs! That they are insane is the first in a long line, but yes, I would also include that Jesus was a Jewish moron who invented suicidal nonsense just because he felt like it. :D

Now, as for the religious beliefs of White nationalists, I can tell you one thing: the majority are definitely not CIs, that's for sure. If they were, we'd all have been killed off by our own race by now for being too annoying, and they would have been right in doing so too. I haven't met a single nationalist in Europe stupid enough to be a CI, and I haven't heard of any either. This being a large continent I suppose there must be a handful here and there, but even so it is clear that sane nationalists outnumber CI nationalists with a most satisfactory ratio in our world. But perhaps not in heaven: perhaps heaven is full only of CIs drinking wine and eating fish with God. Who can tell? If that is so, then I think it's time to buy shares in the building projects in hell, seeing as all sane people must be dying to get in there.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah...

I think it is becoming apparent that saxonrage is not only a "junior member" but a "junior" period. Perhaps the grade school is letting the kiddies have access to the internet now...

Saxonrage has illustrated only that he is mouthy and incapable of making an argument in favor of whatever he espouses. I'm not sure what he espouses because I think CI is foolishness. I heard some bozo explaining it on the shortwave radio the other night while I completed some domestic tasks. Big explanation about how the captive 10 tribes of Israel disappeared into the Caucausus mountains and then become the Scythians who somehow became the Celts. All in the last 600 years before Christ. As if the White race had not been in existence before then.

CI has always reminded me of that odd cult related to Herbert W Armstrong, who had an amusing radio program years ago. British Israelism is what it amounts to in my book, and BI is crap. It's why we're all circumcised in the US instead of intact as "God intended." Thanks Queen Victoria and pet Jew Ben Disreali.

So having established that I am not CI, let me reassert what I have long argued here, which is that Christianity as it was practiced traditionally, in the pre-conciliar Catholic Church, in the Greek and Slavic Orthodox Churches, and in English Catholicism, aka Anglicanism, not the decadent crap known as Episocopalianism, was an organic European religion that served the folk community's religious and spiritual needs well for over a thousand years, without the Jew and alien loving faggotry we know know as judeo-xty.

That Traditional Christianity was intolerant of the pagan beliefs. I consider that a flaw. I personally admire Aryan Hindu, Greco-Roman, and Germanic myth and see them as a vital and existing part of our spiritual heritage. But I think the modern day Asatruars need to recognize that political forces motivated both Constantine in repressing classic paganism and Charlemagne in repressing Germanic paganism. Those were examples of will-to-power exercised on a cruel and grand and imperial scale that you Odinists and Nietzcheans ought to appreciate.

Protestantism fractured the political union of the Empire which was the heart of secular and temporal Europe. Luther's jewbaiting I appreciate but his playing into the hands of petty principalities I do not. Nor do I appreciate the Anabaptist rebellions that plagued the Traditional order in Europe.

I would not personally attack an atheist for one second because I was an atheist for many years and since I have returned to Christian belief of a sort, it is a synthesis of my years of atheism wherein I rejected the miraculous dogma of exoteric Christianity, my reawakened interest in our ancient pagan beliefs, and my inquiry into the esoteric truths of Tradition which are to some extent buried in many Traditional religious forms including Christianity and even Islam.

Those of you who are familiar with Julius Evola or even Savitri Devi will see what I am getting at. Recently I read the chapter in the William Gayley Simpson book on Nietzche and thoroughly enjoyed the discussion of Christianity.

Jung said something to the effect that we have regarded Christianity as myth for a long time now-- perhaps it is time to take Christianity seriously as myth.

The error of atheism is rejecting all of religion as bunk simply because most fools insist on "belief" in miraculous events or other literal interpretations of "Scripture."

I waste as little time worrying about either the historicity of Christ or the fact or non-fact of His Resurrection as I do the historicity of Baldur or the fact or non-fact of His Resurrection.

I guess Saxonrage can call me names too. If Saxonrage's Heaven does not include my pagan ancestors, I would rather burn with them in hell. You pagans can educate Saxon who said that long before me.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah...

*L* Well put, good Sir! Your arguments are well received and will be examined post-haste.

So having established that I am not CI, let me reassert what I have long argued here, which is that Christianity as it was practiced traditionally, in the pre-conciliar Catholic Church, in the Greek and Slavic Orthodox Churches, and in English Catholicism, aka Anglicanism, not the decadent crap known as Episocopalianism, was an organic European religion that served the folk community's religious and spiritual needs well for over a thousand years, without the Jew and alien loving faggotry we know know as judeo-xty.

True, and I remember someone writing in the old forum that the Russians when conquering Siberia simply refused to baptize the heathens there, so they wouldn't have to give them Christian rights. But any religion could have given Europe homogeneity; it is not a reason to thank Christianity.

I appreciate how many Christians throughout history have ignored the universalist teachings of the Bible, and served their own race, but they did so not because they were Christians, but in spite of Christianity. The universalism is written in stone in the Bible, and cannot be removed. It can be ignored, as it has been by many, but it's just like when a political party won't profess nationalism openly; those who love their race may go on for a while, serving their people, but when someone shows up who points to the universalist stuff in their dogma the pro-Whites in the group have to yield.

Many have seen this in for example the Republican Party, and said that "Well, failure again and again has shown us that we must start another party to have any hope of progress, a party that states clearly in its holy books that it is pro-White only." I say the same about Christianity. It should be clear, however, that very few actually believe that e.g. Nordic mythology is true; but we simply love it because of the myths and what they teach us. "Take it seriously as myth," I suppose. Nationalism in northern Europe is served a great deal by Nordic mythology, which is used for songs, necklaces, t-shirts, tattoos, flags and so on to give a sense of unity that is clearly, undeniably White.

In the end I don't expect successful nationalism in North America to be filled by Pagan belief, but I expect that nationalism there will mostly ignore Christianity. The nationalist arguments will be dressed in political and philosophical clothing, and not in religious garb.

Doesn't matter in the least. No matter how much effort I put forth and no matter how much information and evidence I offered, you pagans and athiest wouldnt buy it. I have encountered you folks before. The only reason I ever said anything in the first placewas to demonstrate you hypocrites for what you really are. ASSHOLES As I said you cry of White unity, but in these message boards you are far from that. You slam another White Nationalists religious beliefs, but the first time someone says something to you about yours you cry like babies. I have been in the presense of you punks in person and none of you have ever come to my face with these insulting remarks about Christ. Why ? Because you know that you'd wind up in a neck brace. So there is no need for me to waste my time on you. But it is fun getting you all wound up. Why ? Because I hate you white niggers worse than any Jew or mud.

You call us hypocrites?? Fundies like you get stomped on every day, dildo breath. What makes you think you're so fucking special? Why don't you go create your own fundy board elsewhere... I'll pitch in a penny to help you raise the dough.

Now fuckoff like the little hypocrite asswhipe you are.

You slam another White Nationalists religious beliefs, but the first time someone says something to you about yours you cry like babies. I have been in the presense of you punks in person and none of you have ever come to my face with these insulting remarks about Christ. Why ? Because you know that you'd wind up in a neck brace. So there is no need for me to waste my time on you.

*LOL* Perfect! The end argument of every loser when posting on the internet: "I would take you all in a fistfight!" Wooo, we are sooo impressed!

And, ahem, you whine about us having the nerve to have different opinions than you about religion ... but when nationalists have decided to be polite and not mention those differences to you IRL, you whine about that too! Gods! That must be the fucking most stupid post I have ever seen!

But it is fun getting you all wound up. Why ? Because I hate you white niggers worse than any Jew or mud.

And here is the real CI attitude toward other nationalists, revealing itself again! Just like Gabrielle writing how she wants all non-CI nationalists to be stoned, or that crazy CI pastor saying Creativity is in league with the Jews. Phew! These people sure are nutcases!

:D

http://www.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/plates/rx2kONE%20v2_Hitler.jpg

Christianity may have been the foundation for the West, but not for the White Race. Before the time of the Romans no one gave a thought about Christianity as far as the term "Christianity" that is. Charlemagne was the first Holy Roman Emperor and he was weird and had a lot of weird ways.

X-tianity is heroin for the soul.

Christianity destroyed the soul of Ancient Europe.If we want to restore our Greatnes we must destroy this Judaic religion.

Christianity destroyed the soul of Ancient Europe.If we want to restore our Greatnes we must destroy this Judaic religion.

I wouldn't fret too much if I were you Whitewolf14/88.
I think when the time comes many of these people will be on our side while many of them will not.

And while they did help destroy the soul of Ancient Europe the Jews also helped them accomplish that.

Judaic "religion" is the problem with most christians today anyway. Most christians are too bought out on the idea that somehow jews are going to come back one day through CHRIST and SAVE them. (I'm not putting christian Identity in this catagory).
The christians need to wake up and realize how DUPPED they have become by the jews and understand that the JEWS ARE NOT god's chosen people!

I am NOT saying that I am against EVERY christian out there. Some of them have an understanding of what is happening and are good people. I am only referring to MAINSTREAM christianity.

What elements would you put in a religion if you had to build it from the ground up? How about:

1) myths, stories, allegories, and symbols, of broad appeal, forming a continuity with other well known religious symbols.
2) a discussion about both personal well being and coming together in communities.
3) both a regard for one's own tribe, and a message on how to get along with other tribes.
4) both an in-group morality code, and an in-group morality code.
5) a symbol or word for the transcendant ultimate truth.
6) a persona or leader, live or dead or imagined, who went up against the bad guys, and against all odds, pulled out a "miraculous" win.
7) fingers the Jews as bad guys.

Looks to me like traditional Christianity fit the bill. Really, Asatro and Greco-Roman paganism are inferior from our current historical vantage point, not because they are mythic-- that doesnt bother me for paganism OR Christianity--but because they do not tell us directly how to deal with the Jews who are the principal villains of the past two thousand years. Christianity did exactly that. It said stay away from, mistrust and revile Jews as the evil killers of Incarnate Good.

Can you guys imagine a worse act than deicide?

What elements would you put in a religion if you had to build it from the ground up?

Ancestor worship for starters -- you cannot start a religion from the ground up. It must be related to you. Religion binds you back to the blood or it is nothing.

Roman Christianity succeeded by destroying the body of the pagan religion with armed force. In the 4th century they killed off the Druid sages and banished and killed the worshippers of Osiris -- in both cases killing the historic roots of the folkish religions.

They replaced the true blood religions with a faux-blood religion and we're paying for it now. For proof go to any mainline Christian church right now and ask them if the white race has a right to exist that their bible-school trained theology would recognize.

Maybe just change your question a bit: What elements would you put in a revealed religion. Folkish religions have relationships of blood and soil, not creed.

I know what I'd like to have revealed to white folks, but then that's a different subject. :)

Ancestor worship for starters -- you cannot start a religion from the ground up. It must be related to you. Religion binds you back to the blood or it is nothing.

Roman Christianity succeeded by destroying the body of the pagan religion with armed force. In the 4th century they killed off the Druid sages and banished and killed the worshippers of Osiris -- in both cases killing the historic roots of the folkish religions.

They replaced the true blood religions with a faux-blood religion and we're paying for it now. For proof go to any mainline Christian church right now and ask them if the white race has a right to exist that their bible-school trained theology would recognize.

Maybe just change your question a bit: What elements would you put in a revealed religion. Folkish religions have relationships of blood and soil, not creed.

I know what I'd like to have revealed to white folks, but then that's a different subject. :)

ABSOLUTELY! I should have incorporated that. Ancestor worship is a folk practice of all healthy people, in my view. Chinks have that as their principal thing, and nothing else appears to have ever replaced it. Though Presbyterian, my parents taught me to pray in the Christian manner, and to my deceased grandparents as if they were saints in the Catholic fashion. A consciousness that your kin are watching you from Valhalla or the Elysian Fields or heavan or whatever you want to call it, definitely helps lead an honorable life.

So what I'm saying is, to the extent modern Christianity is divorced from that, it is definitely a wicked thing. But I dont think that was the intention. Saints are like the Olympian heroes, Theseus or Perseus.

Did I forget to mention that Heracles was a sort of god Incarnate? Isnt that remarkably like the story of old JHC? Although He is usually more associated with a sort of Januslike Apollonian-Dionysian personae.

Did I forget to mention that Heracles was a sort of god Incarnate? Isnt that remarkably like the story of old JHC? Although He is usually more associated with a sort of Januslike Apollonian-Dionysian personae.

I recall something like this, but blast if I can remember from where.

The gist of it was that the Jesus Christ story sold well among the Greeks because it was in some way similar or complimentary to the stories told about Jason. I have no link or source but if it rings a bell, let me know.

The Greek/Jesus connection seems logical. Lots of things attributed to Jesus would warm the heart of any Pythagorian.

Well I am glad to see that someone qualified his statements about Christianity by defining a dividing line between Identity and the Judaic infested, Jews are Gods chosen, Mystical Magical Kabbalah, Bal worshiping idiots of the mainstream crowd. Thank you !

Lots of us draw that distinction, saxonrage!

Euros are determined and individualistic cusses. It's why we have trouble sometimes - no, most of the times.

Let's see:

Euros as Christians: We got the Mainstreams (all hacks and sell-outs) the Mystics (Saint Francis was da bomb!) Gnostics (there's hidden meanings in those words, Pilgrim...) Tribals (everybody wears the Black Robe on Thursdays unless it rains) and of course the Unclassifiables (What on earth did David Koresh find in Revelations?)

Euros as Pagan: Asatru to Zoroasterianism. Honor the code and insult no other tribe's gods!

Euros as rationalists: Tom Paine declares The Age of Reason 5 minutes before it collapses.

Euros as Illuminati Adepts: All hail the Secret we can't tell anybody!

Euros as Scientific Determinists: GLobalism is inevitable. Race is an illusion and change always means GOOD. Unless they move your cheese.

BOTTOM LINE: If ever we all think the same, it won't be us. We are the Faustian race. We must seek to know, or we cease to be.

Lots of us draw that distinction, saxonrage!

Euros are determined and individualistic cusses. It's why we have trouble sometimes - no, most of the times.

Let's see:

Euros as Christians: We got the Mainstreams (all hacks and sell-outs) the Mystics (Saint Francis was da bomb!) Gnostics (there's hidden meanings in those words, Pilgrim...) Tribals (everybody wears the Black Robe on Thursdays unless it rains) and of course the Unclassifiables (What on earth did David Koresh find in Revelations?)

Euros as Pagan: Asatru to Zoroasterianism. Honor the code and insult no other tribe's gods!

Euros as rationalists: Tom Paine declares The Age of Reason 5 minutes before it collapses.

Euros as Illuminati Adepts: All hail the Secret we can't tell anybody!

Euros as Scientific Determinists: GLobalism is inevitable. Race is an illusion and change always means GOOD. Unless they move your cheese.

BOTTOM LINE: If ever we all think the same, it won't be us. We are the Faustian race. We must seek to know, or we cease to be.

Your bottom line, again, absolutely agreed. Saxonrage ought to expand his horizons a little with a little Untergand des Abellandes....

If said poem was correct, why was Christianity the main ass-kicker on Jews for centuries? You seem to conveniently ignore that fact. It seems to me that Christianity was the main anti-Jew force in the West. What is a more serious crime than Deicide? Hmmmmm?

It seems to me that all the "organic" northern Euro pagan religions are preaching the same egalitarian bullshit as Judeo-Christianity (a recent creation). Yes, Judeo-Christianity is destructive. No body's gonna argue that. The point is even if we had an Odinist society, once the Jews are let in our nation, they will exploit some aspect of it to make things better for themselves. And there is NOTHING inherently anti-semetic about Odinism. There's not even anything explicitly racial about Odinism. Odinism, from a Jewish point of view, could easily be taken for a universalist religion. Same goes for all other Euro pagan religions as they never specify the race of their followers. Look at pagan Rome. They let in lots of non-whites to be citizens, Senators, Generals and Emperors. What's your point?

Tell me, if Christianity is inherently a Jew invention to control us goyim, why do they hate it so? Why try to incrementally erase Christmas? Why the paranoia about Gibson's "Passion"? Why the Inquisition? Why, even in 20th century America, did white Christians not want to live around Jews and had neighborhood covenants against it? Why did historically white nations have closed immigration policies? Why do Jews fear Christianity? Where in our 2,000 years of Christianity prior to WWII did we accept non-whites as our equals on a mass scale?

One would think that if Christianity was indeed created by Jews to control us, they would promote it mercilessly. But this isn't the case is it? Christians have been kicking Jew ass for centuries and they're afraid of a real Christian revival.


I can hardly believe my eyes!! Great rebuttal! I am going save this.

Pardon my ignorance of the jew point of view, but during the time of belief in Odin, were there a bunch of jews in Scandanavia? Would it be universalist because everyone encountered during the course of one's life would be another White?

Correct questions; Europeans were tribal in the sense that before Christianity there was no mechanism to allow aliens into areas where kindred folk had settled.

Didn't Gibbon note this? In passing, in Decline & Fall Gibbon notes that whereas Christianity is a religion, Judaism is a nation.

A tribal-minded people would know enough not to let seperate nations occupy the same ecological niche. Anthropologists call this the competitive exclusion principle; the Old Relgion called it blood & soil.

It was Celsus who noted that Christianity would eventually destroy the connection between our volk and our place on earth. He must have been close to right: the church burned his books.

Defenders of Christianity have a good point! Yes, Christians whacked infidels, aliens and Jews for most of its history. But the defenders of Christianity are also attaching a static interpretation to a dynamic process: Church universalism started slowly and stayed idealistic for centuries... but progressively it has changed and become more damaging, centralizing and antiwhite.

The point is either Christianity must be retaken and re-Europeanized, or scuttled as a total loss. An objective look has shown me no third option.

Nobody disputes that jews have been a central part of Christianity from the beginning.

Pardon my ignorance of the jew point of view, but during the time of belief in Odin, were there a bunch of jews in Scandanavia? Would it be universalist because everyone encountered during the course of one's life would be another White? Would those who were wide ranging explorers be so new in the experience of nonwhites that there was little time to assess the nonwhite?

1) I'll dispute it. Jews rejected Christ. Then the disciples evangelized the Greeks and Romans. That is the story and history bears it out. Jews have to keep on rejecting Christ, to keep their wicked cult alive, and more or less it now defines their religion. They are the bloodsuckers of the Aryan made culturally distinct by their religion. How could they "stand alone" without it?

2) I love the Norse myths and consider them a vital part of our spiritual heritage. But modern day Odinism is a form of treehugging. Paganism today is populated by the oddest sorts who typically are wiccan feminists. I know there are a few exceptions and I have read some interesting disputes of this from our fellow VNN senior member Draco, but I believe the generality holds.

Respect for the pagan gods is essential. Respect for our Christian ancestors is essential. Oversimplification may work for a certain type of outreach, but our conversation here is not just outreach or propaganda.

Hello. Spengler this poem sums it up petty much.

BOLDLY STAND ERECT by Ragnar Redbread frim Might is Right

Jewish books are for jews.
And jewish messiahs, too
But if your not of jewish blood,
How can they be for you?

To make an Idol of a book,
Is poison for the brian;
A dying God upon a cross
Is reason gone insane.

Beware of all the Holy books
And all the creeds and schools.
And law that man has made
And all the golden rules.

"Laws" and "Rules" imposed on you
From days of old renown,
Are not intended for your "good"
But for your crushing down.

Then dare to rend the chains that bind
And to yourself be true,
Dare to liberate your mind,
From all things, old and new,

Always think your own thought,
All other thoughts reject;
Learn to use your own brain
And boldy stand erect.

This is a good poem but in the same way a person has to go beyond the usual narrow minded exoteric Christianity to arrive an appreciation of pagan myth, you have to transcend and go beyond the thesis of "Christianity vs paganism" to arrive at a strategy that will work for us today.

Furthermore, a total rejection of Christianity presumes every man to be fit to be his own "priest." That is an essentially protestant and perhaps uniquely american notion which totally neglects the basic ignorance of the "lemming" including the White lemming, and has left protestant churches today both completely adrift (hence adrift into the hands of the clever jew) and for the most part irrelevant both socially and spiritually.

Not every man is able to decide what his religious beliefs should be. If you believe that crap, go on back and rejoin the American Individualist blah blah blah crap.

Tolerance of religious difference one of the two edged swords of Hellenism. It has been exploited to no end by the Jews. I think that tolerance is fine where elites are concerned but for the lemming I would prefer a set catechism that tells him what he needs to know without wasting too much time on "why."

Christianity used to do that pretty well before the Reformation. The Jews hijacked both the Reformation and Enlightenment and have totally brainwashed us since. We better figger out who's going to do the brainwashing here, us or the Jews, and get busy doing it.

In 1889 this discussion wouldn’t even be taking place. White Christians would not tolerate anything like is happening now.

Over the years Christianity has been spoiled, and even during the NT times the Jews were attempting to Judaize Christianity.

Over all I would say yes, it has been good for whites.

What exists now has molded by our modern society. Mainstream Christianity has been molded by society instead of molding society.

Even the dullest of the dull are now realizing the attack on traditional Christian values. There is a movement that has gone through a slump but is taking back off again, that is trying to return Christianity to traditional biblical Christian values.

If that happens you will see a different story about Christianity and White Nationalism.

I don’t believe that most here that claim to hate Christianity actually hate the religion but there is something in their past that has happened to them personally to hate it. You don’t develop a seething hatred unless something has happened to you directly.

AE is a good example I don’t think he is a Christian but he doesn’t despise those that are, although he may not like the religion he doesn’t harbor a personal grudge against Christians.

But there are some that hold a grudge that is so personal and they will attack someone blindly simply because they are Christians and it doesn’t matter what they have done for their race.

That is not Aryan and it is not logical.

Few Christians ever read the bible enough to notice that
Most churches do not follow it

Actually you would be amazed to discover that people realizing their pastors lied and their denominations are not following the bible.

It is becoming a strong movement in America today.

People can only hold to evangelical televised money-grubbing religion for so long, when their finances are drained dry and they realize that the televised pastors did nothing to help them.

They will return to their sanity support their local congregation that supports their community, and return to Christianity as it was practiced in 1889.

This movement is actually becoming very strong in the religious world. You don’t see it on television because the Jews don’t want you to know that it is traditional values and not porn that people are chucking these televised hucksters for.

This thread shows that VNNF is not as anti-Christian as some would claim. Not even 50% voted that Christianity was totally destructive to whites.

I have heard it said on here that VNNF is an Atheist board and Christians are hated and not wanted. According to the poll that doesn’t seem to be the case.

I think we have enough Christians here to make VNNF a Christian board. Remember Christians are unified and Atheists/pagans have no unity whatsoever.

I even had Fredrik Haerne tell me he would side with a Jew against a White Nationalist Christian. And said quote “you got a problem with that”
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p=103376#post103376

Uh, you actually think Alex Linder would go along with that???
Linder created a free speech board. If White Nationalism Christianity happens to become the free speech that dominates this board, who knows? If Christianity became the strongest method of White Nationalism who knows?

I honestly don't know. I think Linder is going to do whatever is the best for the white race.

I think he is the type of person that wouldn’t fight against White Nationalists that are doing something for their race regardless (with the exception of Judaism) faith.

But that is my opinion.

LOL

.....................................................

Where would you go if we made this a Christian forum? Do you think you would have enough nerve to apply your cut and paste skills on a non-WN forum?

If you think for one moment we are going to get snowed into believeing that there are enough Xstains to warrant officially changing the board to being "Christian" then you are delusional.

Heck, if anything it should be renamed more along the lines of this:

Link: www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=252
Usually I don’t respond to groupies that dedicate their sig to me but I made an exception in your case.

Buy my new book when it comes out I will autograph it for you. I will make sure that your local book distributor puts it on the bottom shelf so you can reach it. :D


According to not only you and a couple of your fellow VNNf’ers a few irate Christians nearly wiped Paganism/Atheism off the face of this planet.

A thousand years ago Christians took pagans and put them in their place and they have never been able to stand against us since.

Actually there is about 15 or 20 Christians and CI’s on this board. That is enough to wipe the entire Pagan nation off the planet.

Pagans are still crying about how there is nothing they can do against Christians. Must be because we are so powerful.

Then it would no longer be a Free Speech Forum.

.
We would leave you around so we could ridicule and laugh at your pitiful cut & paste attempts to destroy us Christians. :)

In a perfect world the anti christian Aryans, could meet up with the christian white racists, and we could just fight it out with axes,knives, clubs. .
Every time that has happened Christians have won.

But more importantly you are saying you would like to see white Aryans fight to the death?

Not see White Christians, White Pagans, White Atheists unite and destroy the Jew?

Whose side are you on anyway?

Take you Talmudic fantasies elsewhere.

I want to see a white world.

You know Jarl wouldn't pass this thread up without a cut and paste we have seen at least 10 times.

As for you Dr A, you can buy my book when you get 25 as it will contain material not suitable for those that haven’t reached their mature level yet.

Although unlike Ironworker I won’t autograph your copy.

Are Those Nasty, Awful Christians a Threat to Liberty

Almost every time I write a column I get at least a few pieces of hate mail from people who absolutely hate Christianity. These individuals firmly believe that Christians are the enemy and that Christianity can be blamed for most of the world’s problems in some way or another. While they despise religion in general and think any belief of the supernatural is silly and superstitious, they reserve most of their anger for Christians. Are these angry secularists correct? Are Christians like myself really such a huge threat to liberty and society on a whole?

I think the answer is obviously no, but my secular friends might need a little reassurance. There are plenty of non-religious people that don’t share this hysterical view of Christianity and religious faith. Such individuals email me and discuss very thoughtfully and intelligently their objections to some of the things I write and I enjoy their feedback. Many others, however, simply go off the deep end in their denunciations of Christianity and Christian morals.

Usually the religion haters who send me emails never really intelligently argue their points. Instead they call names, write a bunch of profanity, and think they are being incredibly original and witty when they call Jesus "Jeeeeezzzuuuuzzz." This comes from the same crowd of people who sincerely believe that they are intellectually superior to everyone else. Their emails and "arguments" (if you want to call them that) read like crazed disjointed hyperventilating rants instead of intelligent comments from thoughtful people. One has to ask themself, just what is their beef?

First of all, they think religion is silly and stupid and should not be embraced by intelligent people. They are typically very smug in their supposed intelligence and consider religious people to be a bunch of morons. But I will congratulate the hardened atheists on this: they have much more faith than I could ever have. To have such an unflinching and unquestioning faith in naturalistic Darwinism to explain life and societal development as we know it takes quite a bit more faith than believing in the supernatural.
So good job, guys. You’re an inspiration for people of faith everywhere.

Second, many think Christianity is nothing more than a brainwashing device to control people. Christians are supposedly brainwashed because they have awful values like loyalty to God, aversion to promiscuity and homosexual behavior, respecting the lives of unborn children, and the terrible belief that men and women might actually be different. Militant secularists are afraid that Christians want to "impose their values" on them but they would have no problem imposing their own "eat, drink and be merry" values on society if they could.

I’ve written that I have a problem with terminating the lives of unborn children as it violates many libertarian (not to mention Biblical!) principles. However, that is not enough for the rabid Christian hater. They despise the fact that certain moral standards even exist and that people could be "dumb" enough to hold them.

Look, there is plenty of room to debate on these issues. Also, let me say that there are indeed statist Christians out there who may mean well, but they prescribe awful political solutions to the societal problems facing the church today. There are also the Armageddonites, who never met a war they didn’t like and believe the sword is the best way to usher in the Kingdom of God (contrary to what Scripture teaches, I may add). I am not ignorant to the fact that there are bad elements of the "Christian Right" out there.

But this is hardly the full story. The angry secularist assumes that every Evangelical is a Left-Behind fanatic that wants to nuke the Middle East. They assume that every conservative Catholic and Protestant wants to usher in a theocracy run by Ralph Reed. They believe that every Christian is out to get them. Run for cover!

The truth is that there are more than just a handful of Christians who hold sensible views on public policy and liberty. There is a growing Christian libertarian sentiment out there that is fed up with the current way of doing things and is rediscovering that it is the Gospel, and not Washington politicians, war and socialism that will redeem society. Rather than try to work together with such individuals, the religion haters just prefer to make enemies with them and mock them. Yet it is the Christians who are "hateful," "intolerant," and "stupid."

Another major reason that these people hold the attitudes they do is that they are lovers of self. They hate the idea that man needs as "Savior" and completely resent the idea that Jesus is the path to eternal life. It annoys them that Christians believe such things and that Christians have the nerve to "witness" or share their faith with others.

Well, if you don’t like it then there is a very libertarian answer to this: Ignore them. Don’t listen to them. Go on your merry little way and enjoy life. If you don’t want to hear the televangelist on TV, turn the station. If you don’t like church, then don’t go. If you think Christians are annoying, then don’t associate with them.

The point is that nobody is forcing you to believe in anything. Religion haters assume they have an inherent right never to be annoyed by Christianity or exposed to it. Since the mere presence of Christianity annoys them, they feel their rights are being violated and that others are trying to "impose" their values on them. The truth is that the only thing that would make them happy is not just Christians leaving them alone and being silent, but Christianity and religion disappearing from the face of the earth.

The supposed threat that Christianity poses to liberty and non-Christians is seriously overblown. Religion haters need to take a step back, take a few breaths, and realize that everyone is not out to get them. Not all Christians are morons. Not all want World War

III. Not all want to "take away" your "rights." In fact, most don’t. They just want to live moral and productive lives and see others find faith and salvation in Jesus Christ. If you don’t believe in this salvation, then you are very free to ignore the message and live however you want to live. Just don’t say we didn’t warn you.
The question I have is just what in the heck has got these people so riled up? What makes usually reasonable and thoughtful people turn so quickly negative and irrational? My advice to you guys is to chill out. Instead of seeing us as threats to humanity, realize that you are completely free to reject Christianity and that nobody is hiding in your closets with Bibles and holy water. As other more thoughtful and balanced secularists have discovered, there actually are issues liberty minded secularists and religionists can work together on. Or would you prefer just treat us as enemies?

Christianity is not a threat to anyone. Some Christians and some quirky forms of Christianity may be, but certainly not Christianity on a whole. The Christian faith is actually rich with great virtues and teachings. Far from being a threat, Christianity is a hope for society. Faith haters would do themselves well if they realized how irrational their utter hatred of all things religious is and realized that faith, hope, and love are still forces for good in society today.
Dirty Christians (http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell37.html)

I even had Fredrik Haerne tell me he would side with a Jew against a White Nationalist Christian. And said quote “you got a problem with that”



Nooo, did I? *LOL*
Don't you think I knew you would try to distort that and milk it as much as possible? And do you really think I care? *S*

What I said, my dear Jewish-like debator, was that a Jew who says a thing is correct I would agree with. If a Jew says two plus two is four I will agree it's true, and if someone says it's false I'll tell him he's wrong.

Oh, what would you have me do? Refuse to admit two plus two is four just because a Jew says it? Yeah, right.

Nah, I don't think you were serious here. I think you were just a lying piece of shit, saying "I even had Fredrik Haerne tell me he would side with a Jew against a White Nationalist Christian" without saying WHAT I would side with him about.

So fuck off you too.

Besides, in regard to your comment "I think we have enough Christians here to make VNNF a Christian forum", have you happened to cast a glance at that little poll above? It shows more than 64 percent of those polled saying Christianity is bad news.

You're talking about taking over, banning other viewpoints, just like all Christians, socialists, communists and Jews. After all, you all come from the same source. Go ahead and "take over", we'll just keep kicking folks like you around until you leave, like you always do.

As for sticklickers always winning in fights -- really? Gee, how come Christianity is shrinking in Europe, with Islam growing? Christianity with its hundreds of millions of followers has proven useless against mass immigration; as always it has simply opted for the strategy that optimizes its number of followers.

Besides, in regard to your comment "I think we have enough Christians here to make VNNF a Christian forum", have you happened to cast a glance at that little poll above? It shows more than 64 percent of those polled saying Christianity is bad news.

You're talking about taking over, banning other viewpoints,

Again with the lies, I have never made mention of banning anyone. I do not endorse banning anyone. Show me where I said ban other viewpoints? I am all for free speech, I just think that Christianity is getting strong enough here to have a lot of people with positive Christian view points.

Now to that 64% figure it was about 49% for a long time, I don't know if others made numerous names or what, but after I pointed that out the number jumped literally in a nights time. Coincidence? I think not.