This is my first post on VNN. I hope it doesn't get me banned.

In my opinion the White Nationalist Movement will succeed only when we return to our Christian heritage.

By making allies with, and seeking support from the likes of organizations that finance blasphemous anti-Christian groups such as Resistance Records etc. etc, makes us look like godless idiots. But worse yet; it's a turn off for many idealistic White men and women from joining our ranks. Spirituality, Character, and Honor must be a part of our foundation or we are destined to fail.

In closing may I recommend to this forum the following book that explodes the Jewish canard that National Socialism was root and branch anti-Christian.

The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity 1919-1945,
Richard Steigmann-Gall,
Cambridge University Press, 2003

"We deserted God and so God deserted us" ~Robert Ley~

This is my first post on VNN. I hope it doesn't get me banned.

In my opinion the White Nationalist Movement will succeed only when we return to our Christian heritage.

By making allies with, and seeking support from the likes of organizations that finance blasphemous anti-Christian groups such as Resistance Records etc. etc, makes us look like godless idiots. But worse yet; it's a turn off for many idealistic White men and women from joining our ranks. Spirituality, Character, and Honor must be a part of our foundation or we are destined to fail.

In closing may I recommend to this forum the following book that explodes the Jewish canard that National Socialism was root and branch anti-Christian.

The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity 1919-1945,
Richard Steigmann-Gall,
Cambridge University Press, 2003

"We deserted God and so God deserted us" ~Robert Ley~

No, that wont get you banned, although it's not the position of the forum owner Alex Linder. He is however very toleratant of different viewpoints.

You may wish to look through the section "White History and Religion" for a lively discussion of this theme.

I have that book and it is an excellent book.

Welcome to the forum. I hope you have a thick skin!

Altar, I want you to take a look at this excellent Papal Bull of Benedict XIV that says Jews and Christians should be separated from one another.

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p=212928#post212928

This is my first post on VNN. I hope it doesn't get me banned.

In my opinion the White Nationalist Movement will succeed only when we return to our Christian heritage.

By making allies with, and seeking support from the likes of organizations that finance blasphemous anti-Christian groups such as Resistance Records etc. etc, makes us look like godless idiots. But worse yet; it's a turn off for many idealistic White men and women from joining our ranks. Spirituality, Character, and Honor must be a part of our foundation or we are destined to fail.

In closing may I recommend to this forum the following book that explodes the Jewish canard that National Socialism was root and branch anti-Christian.

The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity 1919-1945,
Richard Steigmann-Gall,
Cambridge University Press, 2003

"We deserted God and so God deserted us" ~Robert Ley~

Welcome aboard. From your name I assume you are Catholic. AE is catholic and I am a member of the Church of Christ. There are some Christian Identities here also. Sift through my threads and a great deal of them deal with Christianity. In my first 20 or so threads you will find some that deals with basically what you just said and you will get the basic idea of what people here think. I had various threads covering Hitler’s table talks and many things dealing with Christianity.

I recently changed my Avatar, the one I used to have was of a medieval crusader and my tag line was VNNF’s Christian Crusader.

I have been a minister for 5 years and got my education in a Seminary also so Christianity is very important to me.

By making allies with, and seeking support from the likes of organizations that finance blasphemous anti-Christian groups such as Resistance Records etc. etc, makes us look like godless idiots."Godless idiot"? An oxymoron if I ever saw one.

In my opinion the White Nationalist Movement will succeed only when we return to our Christian heritage.

Like Bush?

Christian doesn't equal WN.

By making allies with, and seeking support from the likes of organizations that finance blasphemous anti-Christian groups such as Resistance Records etc. etc, makes us look like godless idiots.

Being anti-Christian is what makes a group bad? All groups that are not Christian are "idiots"?

Spirituality, Character, and Honor must be a part of our foundation or we are destined to fail.

Christianity has a monopoly on those three?

In closing may I recommend to this forum the following book that explodes the Jewish canard that National Socialism was root and branch anti-Christian.

They managed to get a great deal of Christians on board -- good for them. Shows that Christians are not a hopeless case after all.

"Godless idiot"? An oxymoron if I ever saw one.
LOL!! Kind of like "intelligent nig--" (Oops! forgot, this is the Civil forum) "intelligent negro"....

or "generous jew." :D

A/E: Thanks for the welcome and the link regarding the Traditional Catholic Church and the Jews. Appreciate it!

doc: Thanks also to you for the welcome. I look forward to reading your posts. And yes, I am a Catholic associated with the Traditional Catholic Church Movement.

For those of you on this forum who have a problem with that, so were Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Julius Streicher, Joseph Goebbels, and Martin Bormann to name a few. Oh, and lest I forget, one-quarter of Germany's elite SS troop were also Catholics.

Altar Boy

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so. Reich Chancellor Hitler still belongs to the Catholic Church and has no intention of leaving it"
~Adolf Hitler~

(No Catholic-born Nazi, not Goebbels, Himmler, or Bormann; not even Adolf Hitler, who died with his name on the rolls of the Catholic Church, and for whom the Catholic Primate of Germany ordered the Requiem sung after his death, was ever excommunicated for being a Nazi)

Altar Boy, please refrain from turning the tables with "for those of you who have a problem with that". It is you who have a problem with anti-Christian WNs. That was your whole purpose with this thread. Don't pretend that you're the one being attacked just because you meet some opposition.


Again:

Does being Christian equal being WN?

Is an anti-Christian WN group a bunch of "idiots" in your eyes? (Are you saying a WN group can't do good things unless it is Christian?)

Does Christianity have a monopoly on spirituality, character and honor?

Hitler was born into a Catholic family, that is true. How do you respond to his comments on Christianity destroying Europe? Would a true believer say that?

DC

No, all anti-Christian WN groups are not idiots. Just those who act like it!

Yes, a Christian can be a WN.

Yes, WN groups can do good w/o being Christian.

No, Christianity does not have a monopoly on spirituality, honor or character.

Regarding Hitler...I'm not a mind reader. Nor do I know what was in his heart.

Now get lost!!!

altar boy: "CIVIL" forum. and I warned you to have a thick skin. this is your thread, dont let it degenerate into flaming.

.......
Again:

Does being Christian equal being WN?

Is an anti-Christian WN group a bunch of "idiots" in your eyes? (Are you saying a WN group can't do good things unless it is Christian?)

Does Christianity have a monopoly on spirituality, character and honor?

...

My answers to those questions would be, No, No, and No.

Particularly considering that the majority of "stuff" parading as Christianity today is a "return to the vomit of Judaism" as St John Chrysostom said, certainly NOs.

A/E...I apologize.

From now on I will focus my posts on World Jewry...And World Jewry only.

A/E...I apologize.

From now on I will focus my posts on World Jewry...And World Jewry only.

Well I again suggest you review old threads on this topic. You can do so with the search function or even use google and certain relevant keywords jncluding "vnnforum"

Altar Boy,


I did not ask whether a Christian can be a WN.

So, you acknowledge that an anti-Christian WN group doesn't have to be idiotic. I assume you also acknowledge that Christian WN groups can be idiotic. Then: shouldn't you instead have started this thread by saying WN activists should not associate with bad groups, rather than saying we shouldn't associate with anti-Christian groups? That it is quality, not religion, that we should judge a group by?

Regarding Hitler...I'm not a mind reader. Nor do I know what was in his heart.

My point was that you were using him as an example of a successful Christian Nationalist. But his statements definitely suggest otherwise; he was not very fond of Christianity, it turns out. So no, Christianity is not the mark of WN success as your reference to the Nazis would imply.

Get lost? I am staying.

Am I right in guessing you are very young?

......... The jews' particularism is the antithesis of xtian universalism. .......
...........

That is a provocative thesis and worth discussing.

Jewish particularism exists on a metaphysical level, meaning, they think their tribe owns God and thus they define reality itself. Fundamentally, this is shamanistic spookery of the crudest sort, but, it's the Jewish mentality. I know it's sometimes hard to believe Jews are that crazy, but if you study the gutter religion of Judaism, it becomes obvious.

Christ stands as a distinctly Hellenic and not Jewish figure, because he suggested a fundamentally different metaphysical orientation which is rightly called "universal:" that all nations could worship God rightly, and not just Jews. Jews reviled Him and they still do. They put Him in the context of the Hellenized Jews whom they murdered along with Greeks in the Maccabean rebellion.

I call this religous idea Hellenic, because it was the Greek philosophers who departed from religion into philosophy, who first made this break for all of history. The notion that tribal religious fables or myths or what have you, including their own, were not the only valid expressions of metaphysical truth, and that REASON could point the way toward truth and not merely religion. Aristotle laid this out very well, and Aquinas assimilated Aristotle to Catholicsm, or at least tried to. But the idea is that different nations could have ideas about reality itself which would be perhaps more right or wrong according not to tribal tradition but according to what is actually true. So truth became defined as separate from the arbitrary will of the tribe. Without that basis, we never would have developed science or technology. Objective truth and reality exists separate and apart from what we think of it-- that's the most powerful idea coming out of Greece (not "democracy" thats for sure!)

Christ and the universalism of Christianity reflects an implementation of this notion in religion, which flies in the face of "The Old Testament" and all the Hebrew tripe. I'm not the first to see this, it's obvious, and I think I read something about this notion in Dietrich Eckhart's book. Basically it's ridiculous to pretend that humans born with a sense of reason can't come to a profound understanding of the nature of reality-- metaphysics. I dont believe this either: I think, for example, that in spite of the silly Hong Kong movies, most Chinese understand the nature of reality called "gravity" pretty much the same way I do. Does that make me "universalist?"

But man is also particularistic. Just because we recognize truth about reality, does not mean that we are the same organism. My dog understands what gravity is, but we should not have sex with dogs just because of that should we? So good religion should accomodate both universal truth, and particular reality.

So it's a mistake to think that religon must be all one thing or another: either wholly tribalistic, or wholly universalistic. That is not so. According to Julius Evola, at the core of many ancient religious traditions there is an esoteric insight that while there are "many paths to the same goal" nonetheless, the outward forms or exoteric forms of religion must remain separate. Ideally, at its best pre Reformation Christianity struck a golden mean between the notion of universal objective reality, and the understanding that religion is a national matter, not an individual one-- and that while different nations might all become Christian, they would remain separate nations and in fact would naturally reflect some different local differences suited to the particularities of those different national identities.

It's just a bunch of lying Marxist Jews who have the power of the podiums in academics who say Christianity is strictly egalitarian in the social sense and push the "solvent of nations" idea. That's a Jew caricature of Christianity mocked up so the Westerner would be befuddled. That's a Jew cuckoo nestled in the breast of the West. But, today, a popular and widespread one I admit.

That Dionysiac side of Christ is there for sure, but most people dont pick up on it. Funny thing is Anne Rice makes that connection in her fiction quite a bit. You know the vampire lady?

I think religion is a dangerous thing and Protestantism unleashed this particular aspect, which was somewhat under control due to the overtly patriarchal forms of Roman Catholicism. You're going to see the nutjob American feminists wailing and beating their breasts over Ratzinger acceding to Pope. Remember that principle of Roman law: the paterfamilias "held his families lives in the palm of his hand" and could sell them all into slavery or kill them if he so chose. Pretty stern stuff eh?

I just read a book by Stephen Pressfield, "Last of the Amazons," a novel that expands on the story of Theseus and Hippolyta. But an even better book is JJ Bachofen's Mother Right. Here's one for sale, not in print: http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y01Y6079663Y3001582/103-8071967-9994233 The Bachofen book was recommended to me years ago by one Joe Pryce who some VNNers will know, in reply to my enthusiasm for Evola's strongly patriarchal word view. Bachofen raises some interesting observation about well known differences between Athenian women and Spartan women.

Here is a snippet from the VNN archive:

t-6712.html

.........I know everyone makes their bones here by butting heads with you on xtianity sooner or later, but I'm not being contrary for its own sake. I know the bible pretty well, KJV especially, being raised pentecostal. I agree with your take on protestantism, BTW, and I'm sure the jews had a hand in the reformation. After being steeped in it then, and reading it with a new persepective now, I find the several voices of the Christ figure in the NT to all be subversive and semitic.

I have not suppressed but hopefully stimulated a critical examination of Christianity. The Christianity most people learn as Americans is Judaized nonsense and people are better off rejecting it. I would never have become a Roman Catholic if I hadnt first become an atheist. My mind was sanitized by the cleansing fire of Nietzsche, Ayn Rand who even though a Jewess amplified certain themes of Nietzsche in this area, and William Pierce. But ironically it was Revilo Oliver's "Origins of Christianity" that got me going into a new conversation about the hazards and usefulness of religion, and what is Aryan religion, and how can all these things aid in our struggle for survival.

That's a great conversation to have and keep on having because it's all around us like it or not, and if we aspire to be elite cadre we had better have an understanding of religion that is as rich and complex as it needs to be. Niether a papering over of the problem a la SF, nor a blanket rejection will serve our long term needs. An ongoing conversation however is good if for no other reason than it serves to indoctrinate the newbies that have enough grey matter to assimilate the issues. Then they can do their own research and analysis.

Here's an interesting figure who spoke to sexual personae that I havent read yet, but he's on the list. btw, I got this name from the Coogan book on Yockey, the stuff about Evola:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Weininger

http://www.adult-chat-world.net/adult-chat-books/free2.php?asin=0226748677

http://theabsolute.net/ottow/

I always learn a thing or 2 from both your posts. nice discussion of the complexities in interpretation of this never ending religious discussion.
Now I know this will sound like a pansy on the diplomatic wall, but, you both make valid points.
So for adding something of intellectual worth on this forum, thank you.

Truth be told, christian faith in America is too jewdified and if not then so, just flat out ridiculous.
Catholocism in 17th century Austria or Baptist jew dick lickers in 2005 Oklahoma?

Times have changed, things have changed.
We need to evolve...

I reject Pascal's wager as dishonest and cowardly. God if He is good would not make man with a rational faculty and expect him to not use it on penalty of unknown consequences. Unless in fact God were not good but wicked, and in which case, there is no point trying to mollify Him. A la Yezhidis sacrificing to Malik Tous. I am no Yezhidi. I think if there is a God He is benificent and delights in his creatures disbelieving in Him for good reasons.

I think the whole thing being tied to a literalist understanding of "salvation" is where much of the problem lies with "religion."

As usual there are many excellent comments on this thread already.
I know AmRen had a series of articles, pro and con, on the subject and they make fascinating reading and are online at the AmRen website.
Yggdrasil also has written extensively on the subject and feels it is more of a plus than a minus.
I have no problem with comrades who are atheists or theists, pagan or Christian, there is a NS guy in England I believe, who is a Muslim convert, I have no problem with him either.
As Antiochus Epiphanes has pointed out old time Catholics were hard on the subject of the jews. Mel Gibson, his father Hutton Gibson, and nearly all of the "traditional Catholics" are pretty aware of the jews.

Martin Luther's The Jews and their lies is powerful reading.
I feel if religion helps a man to be a better Aryan then it is good, but if it tears down our people then it is not good.
Historically it wasn't always as it is today.

.........Christian, there is a NS guy in England I believe, who is a Muslim convert, I have no problem with him either.......

Say who is that? Wasnt there a Swiss fellow named Huber who is now called Ahmed or something? Wonder if that's the same chap or not.

Say who is that? Wasnt there a Swiss fellow named Huber who is now called Ahmed or something? Wonder if that's the same chap or not.

The Swiss guy I have heard of also but wasn't the one I was thinking of it was the Brit, David Myatt. He feels that Islam is the only hope of bringing down the ZOG beast.

Interesting. There's a fellow here, Rhadley, who posts his work all the time. I wonder if he knows his background?

http://david-myatt.biography.ms/

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Abdul-Aziz%20Ibn%20Myatt


http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=15341


Sure do know Myatt's background! As I said in one of my posts - he's related to a relative of mine here.

BTW, Myatt is not now a Muslim, nor does he see Islam as a solution for us White folks. He's championing what he calls The Numinous Way of Folk Culture, which he's said is the "esoteric essence of National Socialism". According to Myatt, the basis for this way of life is honor, and duty to one's folk.

This Numinous Way is about creating a new Aryan homeland - for Aryans only - where we can live among our own folk, according to our own Aryan laws, and where our White, Aryan, culture, can flourish.

That said, Myatt has also championed an alliance between National Socialists and radical Muslims as a means of fighting ZOG.

I quote this from Myatt's recent Statement for Journalists

For nearly forty years I have been on a Promethean-like quest to answer such questions as "What is the meaning of life?" In the course of this quest I have studied, and acquired practical experience of, many religions and ways of life, including Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, paganism, Hinduism and Christianity. I have learnt a great deal from this quest and have concluded that only the natural, honourable, folkish, reasoned, Numinous Way which underlies what I have called Folk Culture fully answered all the questions about the meaning and purpose of our lives.

Thus, The Numinous Way, of Folk Culture, with its Cosmic Ethics, represents my own world-view, and I believe this Way is the means to create a civilized, free, society, of honourable men and women, which will enable us to begin the next stage of our human evolution: the exploration and settlement of Outer Space.



See: http://www.geocities.com/davidmyatt/ which has up to date articles.

This is a thought provoking thread and it’s obvious to me, that if WN doesn’t distill one universally acknowledged belief system, we will just continue to be canon fodder for the jew’s wars. It’s that higher level of spiritually, whatever the source, that allows for the true distinction in men to come forth and compels them to greatness. You history buffs know this is true.

This Numinous Way is about creating a new Aryan homeland - for Aryans only - where we can live among our own folk, according to our own Aryan laws, and where our White, Aryan,
culture, can flourish.
The above quote’s sentiment is nice, but it’s an impossible dream as long as there are jews on the earth. Has anyone else noticed this reality?

That said, Myatt has also championed an alliance between National Socialists and radical Muslims as a means of fighting ZOG.

I've put forth this same idea on this forum a few months ago and was nearly castrated for my trouble. As far as the Muslims are concerned.............They are acting more like “real men” then any other race of people on the earth at the present time. I see no problem with an alliance with Muslims simply because I don’t believe a word that’s said on Fox News and because Muslims are doing a fine job killing jews. Of course I wish that our boys weren’t in their way.

It's not like we have to marry the Muslims forever. Geeze!

I've put forth this same idea on this forum a few months ago

I do believe that August Kreis, of Aryan Nations, also put forward this idea of such co-operation. He was interviewed on CNN about it, if I remember correctly.

When I say "Aryan Nations" I mean of course one of several AN groups now in existence following RB's demise.

BTW, Myatt is not now a Muslim
The last I had heard of him was 2001, he had been doing voluminous writings on Islam under the name Abdul-Aziz Ibn Myatt.
He has had quite a varied religious life from Satanist, to Muslim, to whatever this current incarnation is, I hope he has, at last, found something of genuine value to hold onto.

When he finds Dudism he will have completed the jewish cult for export circuit.

" Question: Don't many people... say you've had so many change of beliefs they cannot take anything you now write seriously?

Answer:
I am as I am - someone who has saught answers to certain fundamental questions about life, and who, never satisfied with the answers of others, has often plunged, often without much forethought, into experiences in the hope of learning something.

But anyone who studies my works seriously can see the common threads running through them - the folk; honour; duty; idealism; an understanding of the numinous presencing that was National-Socialist Germany; a reverence for Nature; an empathy; often a compassion for all life. Indeed, my diversity of experiences I regard as a strength - something which should be celebrated, for no one can say I am ignorant; or a bigot; or consumed by hatred; or driven by what the abstract-brigade call "unconscious feelings" or whatever. For, given all these many and diverse experiences, I am an advocate of folkish beliefs - of separate homelands wherein we can celebrate our diversity and difference in an honourable way and so move on toward the next stage of our evolution. Indeed, I believe I have answered, in my recent writings about National-Socialism, and in my writings about The Numinous Way of Folk Culture, all the criticisms and objections of our opponents, and have provided a coherent, folkish, rational, and above all an ethical, Way of Life: something we sorely need."

From http://www.geocities.com/davidmyatt/honour_revolution.html