What's the best and most reliable AK out there right now, in you're opinion? From what country, etc etc

The Romanian SAR 1 is the best hands down. $300 and comes standard with a side scope mount. It is accurate heavy made and has a steel but plate. The stock is hollow for storing cleaning kits and such also.

You can also get a SAR 2 in the 223 caliber if the 7.62x39 is not your thing. But at $79.00 for a case (1,000 rounds) I can’t see getting anything else.

Our local gun store sells them like hot cakes. I have a friend that has both and he has never had a single complaint out of either.

The Chinese ones are nice but to expensive in their banned state. People will send you after a Russian AK but for the price they are simply not worth the extra cash. The Yugoslav AK’S (madi’s) are also not worth the price, as they are inferior to the Romanian.

For the Money the Romanian SAR 1 is the only way to go.


http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/magyar.gif


Here is a great resource on various AK's.
http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/


Here is a basic price guide to give you an idea.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/rifles/ak47/ak47.html

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/thumb/thumb_krinkstypistol.jpg
$789.00 for this baby.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/thumb/thumb_WASR10PACKAGE.jpg
$269.00 for this one.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=4

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/thumb/thumb_rakpb05.jpg
$639.00 for the Russian. You can get 2 of the others and a case of ammo for the cost of one Russian.

I'm not that familar with AK's but from reading what Sean posted the Polytech legend is the best AK and the most expensive at $1000-1500.

When I was in ZOGs army we used the M-16A1 and I thought it was a piece of shit! Constantly jamming and the 5.56mm didn't have enough stopping power for my tastes and is nothing more than a varmint round IMO. The AK was much better I am told and used a 7.62 round.

Some of the older Viet Nam vets would tell me how great the the Springfield M14 was and that is the best battle rifle ever made!(as opposed to a spray and pray assault rifle like the AK or M-16) "Huck a scope on it, and you can shoot the apple of a homo's head at 250 yards away..... it is 308/762mm and has awsome stopping power. It was a reliable and powerful weapon, often favored by users for high lethality, long range and good penetration."
http://world.guns.ru/assault/m14.jpg

Springfield Armory makes a copy of the M-14 called the M1A and is so well made that it is known as the M-14 "perfected". Here’s an example, topped with a nice piece of glass.
http://www.kimdutoit.com/ee/images/uploads/Springfield_M1A-02.jpg

The only problem with the M1A is it's price. $1500 and up depending on model. But if you can afford it there is nothing better.
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m1a-stan.shtml

That is not only a sweet weapon but a superior one also. However not much for home defense, especially if you have a neighbor within a mile.

Think about this though for the price of that one gun you can buy a good used Savage 308 (I saw two 308’s last week with scopes for under $300 each) an M-1 Garande, and a Romanian AK-47. And then enough to buy a thousand rounds for each and have some change left over to buy a glock.

BTW they make a tankers model M-14 in 30-06. If I was going to buy I would buy that one.

At 500 yards you can hit a man sized target 4 out of 5 times with Iron sites.


Springfield Armory makes a copy of the M-14 called the M1A and is so well made that it is known as the M-14 "perfected".

yes just dont buy a chink one. dont buy any chink gun. chinks have mastered the art of making cheap toys for walmart but in gun factories they still turn out non-standardized parts for export. took down two chink sks for fun once and tried to swap out the gas tubes and they were like 2 mm longer on one than the other. for example. plus old chink m-14 receivers had soft metal which was a safety hazard. chink made = junk. buy russian, bulgarian, romanian. maadi is egyptian and they are good too but they are usually painted as opposed to blued. like a suckey limey piece. LOL

I don’t know if you have ever had this experience but the wood on Chinese guns is pure garbage. I took one down once for someone that wanted me to refinish his SKS stock. It looked good except it had a few nicks in it and a shoddy varnish job. So I was going to strip it and fill the nicks.

When I started to sand the thing it cracked and chipped. The wood splintered everywhere I sanded it. Finally the stock broke. I have done this type of work to several cheap stocks and have never seen a stock break while sanding it.

Finally he wound up buying a plastic stock for his gun. If you buy a Chinese made gun, I highly recommend buying a plastic aftermarket stock ASAP.

I have seen several Chinese stocks and everyone I have seen was warped. I don’t know what type of wood they use but the stocks actually warped during shipping.


for example. plus old chink m-14 receivers had soft metal which was a safety hazard. chink made = junk.

I don’t know if you have ever had this experience but the wood on Chinese guns is pure garbage. .......

No I dont waste 2 seconds on Chink junk. I also dont do work on other people's stuff. If you do than hope you're in compliance with all applicable firearms laws and regulations. We dont want "Sean" to end up like "Randy Weaver"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/22edition.htm

ChiCom AKs are not as well crafted as European models that is true.
The Bulgarian model had a milled receiver but sported a compensator which increases the report. The ChiCom, as well as Russian later models, have stamped receivers but they last longer than most people can afford ammo to shoot through them.

Whatever you have, shoot Russian or eastbloc ammo though them. Everytime I use American 7.62x39 I get fliers all over the place. The Russian steel case seems to work the best, even if you can't reload them.

That's been my experience anyway, with the AK or the SKS.

Thanks for the tip. BUt I don't do any Mods for that I send them to a gunsmith. I haven't done anything like that in about 10 years BTW. Then I only sanded down a wooden stock and put Linseed oil on it instead of varnish. As far as I know there is no law against it, however I stopped things like that even small things like that for friends.




No I dont waste 2 seconds on Chink junk. I also dont do work on other people's stuff. If you do than hope you're in compliance with all applicable firearms laws and regulations. We dont want "Sean" to end up like "Randy Weaver"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/22edition.htm

Whatever you have, shoot Russian or eastbloc ammo though them. Everytime I use American 7.62x39 I get fliers all over the place. The Russian steel case seems to work the best, even if you can't reload them.

That's been my experience anyway, with the AK or the SKS.

I used to love this east german stuff we would get cheap and hot as a mofo, and way cleaner than Russky. I dont shoot my comblocks much any more but I think I have comblock in my stash at my "Alpine Redoubt." LOL j/k

....
Yes, AK's do well with Wolf 7.62x39.

I've heard a theory that makes sense on the face of it, that steel cases make the ejector wear out faster than brass, the former being a much harder metal. What do you shooters think of that?

we had some people who all had maadi aks and they had pretty much all ate over 10,000 rounds each of that stff, easily, with no known ejector problems. Not a big issue.

That's mostly before they branded it wolf, but it's the same stuff.

Ive fired 1000's of rounds of Wolf 7.62x39 and have never came across any problems except for one. About one round out of every 50 usually do not fire the first time and you have to recock and discard the bad bullet. Lately though I haven't had this problem with the case I just bought.

I've had the same problem with the rounds not touching off. I found some of them had the primers too far in. I tossed the ones that would'nt individually fire and have not had a problem. I wish I had kept some of them to for malfuction drills.

This is my first post. :D

The Romanian SAR 1 is a very good gun. The thing to remember about AKs is that they are inherently cheap guns. Do not spend more than $350 for one under any circumstances. An expensive AK is like a customized plunger; your performance gains above the basic model will not be discernable. I remember the first time I shot one, discovering the safety was merely a big piece of hinged metal that blocked the bolt. Just a stamped piece of shit, not terribly accurate, but that piece of shit will shoot when no other gun will.


Well Steve B and Doppelhaken both make good points. They aren't that accurate but they are supposedly more reliable than the AR15. I think it's it better to have both, just in case. ;) I was going to buy the Vector Classic AK47. I don't mind if I have to pay an extra couple hundred bucks.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/danielbooneandrewjackson/cbb4068f.jpg
Thanks for those links, Sean. Good and informative thread.

They aren't designed to be used at more than a couple hundred yards. The AK actually gets it's design inspiration from a German WWII gun, I forget which.

Hehe I hear people saying the AK isn't that accurate, and I tell them to go out there about 150 yards and let me check out if that is true. no takers yet :)

Just get you a .22 pistol and if you ever need an M16, you can relieve someone of theirs :)

The Sturmgewehr 44? Don't let little Kalashnikov hear you say that. Now that he's dead it shouldn't be a problem, but he would get hot when that was mentioned!
Conceptually, the Russians got the idea for the AK series from the German sturmgewehr: selective fire rifle with large capacity magazine firing a shortened, reduced power rifle cartridge.

So, yes, the design of the AK series is not a copy of the sturmgewehr, but the concept is. It was designed to meet the same military requirements, and it was the Germans who came up with those military requirements.

If Germany had survived WWII, we'd probably be seeing Sturmgewehr 44 derivatives all over the planet, much as we see AK derivatives today.

BTW, I know a ZOG warrior who was wounded in the shoulder from an AK-47 round, but he said he'd rather get hit with the AK round than the AR-15/M-16/M-4 round any day.

I would agree with that. I read some reports from the early days of "Nam when they were "live" testing the .223 out in the field and it was pretty gruesome. I don't think you'd want to get hit with a highpowered .22 with that kinda spin.

If you want to shoot .223 a mini-14 is a better choice. I've never owned one but I've been to shooting matches with both the AR and the Mini and I never saw the mini jam.

Mini's bolt looks a lot like the garand or m14 bolt. They may be sturdier than ar 15s but parts and supply especially of magazines can be a problem. you dont want the aftermarket mags for this weapon, you want rugers. and ruger stopped making 30s for civilian sale a while ago and hasnt fired it back up as far as I know. correct me if I'm wrong about this. Hicap ruger factory mags for the mini are expensive.

BTW, I know a ZOG warrior who was wounded in the shoulder from an AK-47 round, but he said he'd rather get hit with the AK round than the AR-15/M-16/M-4 round any day.

Agreed! The M-16/AR-15, 5.56 round is a high velocity bullet that when hits a human flesh target, without any interference, starts to "tumble". That is, they they tend to veer in strange directions, the laws of physics in command, causing much more damage than going straight through.

I remember Viet Vets telling me about shooting NVA in the stomach and the M-16 round going through the mid-section and coming out the top of the head. I have no personal knowledge of this but I have know doubt that it happened. A small projectile at high velocity hits something hard such as a bone and it skips off or ricoches who knows where.

Basically, the warp speed 5.56 round causes big time fractal wounds, assuming there is nothing between you and the human target. In a combat situation, I wish you the best of straight line luck!

The 7.62x51 mm on the other hand goes through tree trunks, sand bags, etc and will still kill you dead! Tell you what, Doppel. You take the AR-15/M-16, 5.56 and I'll take the M-14, AK or the Browning BAR 30.06 and lets see who comes out on top in a firefight!

Yeah, except the AK round is 7.62 X 39, 7.62 X 51 NATO (.308 Win) is much more powerful and accurate, with a range up to 800 meters. As in my Rem 700 PSS

Does Remington still sell the 700 PSS?

Roger that. Follow the link to 700.

http://www.remingtonle.com/

http://www.calssportingarmory.com/Remington.htm

Unfortunately they are all out of stock except for the 308 left-handed.

Which do you prefer the 308 or the 300 win Mag?

You can find a right handed one if you look a little.


I definitely prefer .308 for a fun afternoon shoot. You can put 10 rds on paper, check the target, reload and go again for 50 or 100 rds. With the right optics and wind, 800 yard maximum range. Even though .300 Win Mag is a legitimate 1000 yd caliber, it's no fun to shoot. Not at all. Then there's .338 Lapua Mag, a legitimate 1500 yd caliber that puts both your armpits on the same side.

http://www.custer.com.au/Lap/pages/338Hist.html

http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/338UltraPoorMansLapua.asp

Ask yourself if you want to spend 1K + on your rifle, scope and bipod, to shoot four or five rds twice a year and put it back in the case. That's probably what you'll do with a .300 Win Mag.

One more tip if you're serious about getting this gun. I wouldn't recommend the detachable magazine version. I've heard some problems have ensued using them. The LAPD SWAT team, almost any other PD you can name, use the top loader version. So do I. It won't let you down.

Ok, thanks for the info. Although the .300 Win Mag is a reach out and hurt something really bad weapon, I don't relish the idea of the rifle butt slamming into a bad right shoulder that I have from high school so the .308 is what I will go with.

By the way these guys have sales of just about any gun you want with a search locater of FFL's in any area. The Rem 700 sells for under 500 bucks.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/gungallery/retailer/index.asp

I'm not sure where I got the link...hell, prolly from VNN forum!

Dude, the Valmet rifles from Finland are like the best AK derivatives out there, totally. Dude, I scored one a couple of years ago that was like totally cherry, it cost a bundle, but it was like sooooo worth it. The quality is like totally unmatched by anyone, even Izhmash. Dude, in fact, I can't believe this thread is like four pages long and not one of you boneheads even mentioned Valmet. :p

Agreed! The M-16/AR-15, 5.56 round is a high velocity bullet that when hits a human flesh target, without any interference, starts to "tumble". That is, they they tend to veer in strange directions, the laws of physics in command, causing much more damage than going straight through.

Dude, yeah that's true about the ol' M16A1. It had a barrel twist of 1 in 12 and when combined with the ol' 55gr. M193 5.56mm ball cartridge it had a tendency to tumble on impact with a soft target like, for example, some Gook. :p

Dude, but the M16A2 of course has a much tighter barrel twist of 1 in 7. This was done in order to like stabilize the heaver 62 gr. M855 5.56mm NATO cartridge. Dude this combination no longer causes the round to tumble. Instead, it causes the round to violently fragment on impact with a soft target like, for example, some Aye-rab. :p

If you are going to spend in the $300 range you won’t get a better gun than the SAR for the dollar. However if you plan on spending more make sure you get a milled receiver instead of a stamped one. A milled receiver is cut out of a solid piece of steel where a stamped if folded out of thinner metal.

A milled receiver is more accurate and will last 90% longer. However I don’t see to many people wearing a SAR out but if you plan to shoot over 100,000 rounds you need a milled receiver.

Dude, but the M16A2 of course has a much tighter barrel twist of 1 in 7. This was done in order to like stabilize the heaver 62 gr. M855 5.56mm NATO cartridge. Dude this combination no longer causes the round to tumble. Instead, it causes the round to violently fragment on impact with a soft target like, for example, some Aye-rab. :p

Uhhh Dude, I'm like totally hip to that! Whats really cool about all guns is the cylinderical bolts can be turned into a new smoking device....!

Hey, maybe we can hang out together sometime and listen to some Grateful Dead tunes? It would be like, really intense!

You're not doing anyone a favor telling him to spend thousands on an intrinsically cheap gun like an AK. That's something only an independently wealthy or just plain foolish bonesmoker would do.

Dude, I agree, no semi-auto AK derivative is worth $8000, you'd have to be like a total bonehead to pay that. But where the hell did this 8 grand number come from? I think you pulled it outta yer ass. I've seen 'em for much less than that.

Intrinsically cheap
HAHAHAHA...Dude, you obviously don't know what the fuck you are talking about. There's a big difference between a finely crafted AK derivative and the gazillions of mass produced junk AK rifles that financially challenged people like you buy. But then you wouldn't know that. :p

How come you don't sound like Towelie anymore, Dude?

Dude, WTF is Towelie?

You know, all stoned and un hostile like, Dude?

Dude, I don't know man, I'm kinda having a bad day/night :(

The $8K + price tag was actually for selective fire Galils and Valmets, so what did you pay for your semi-auto Valmet? :confused:

2 grand cash and some Glenmorangie.

Dude that was for a new M76 in it's original box, 5.56mm w/6 mags, owners manual, an extra receiver cover w/scope base and rings, plus a cleaning kit.

Ok what amazes me here is someone that has a weed smoker for is avatar and uses “dude” in every other word is one of the rare people that know to say mag/magazine instead of clip. There is a huge difference between a magazine and a clip.


Dude that was for a new in it's original box, M76, 5.56 w/6 mags,

You're not getting a PSS for under $500. I got my rig at a fire sale price, with Leupold Vari-X II 3 X 9 tactical scope, Harris bipod and tactical sling for under 1K. I defy you to do better.

Obviously it's without the leupold glass, bipod and sling.

$442.00

http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumers/subsites/inven_product.asp?dealer_id=712109&item=7359&instock=all&manufact_combo=Remington&mod_ser_combo=700&category_combo=2&model=700&g_type=Rifle&act_type=&finish_type=None&calib_combo=308&sight_class_combo=None&price_range=None&left_handed=&youth=&Offset_rec=0&num_rec=50&item_num=

Dude, the Valmet rifles from Finland are like the best AK derivatives out there, totally. Dude, I scored one a couple of years ago that was like totally cherry, it cost a bundle, but it was like sooooo worth it. The quality is like totally unmatched by anyone, even Izhmash. Dude, in fact, I can't believe this thread is like four pages long and not one of you boneheads even mentioned Valmet. :p

Dopesmoking idiot if you paid 8k for any AK. What select fire AKs even go for that much? Joker.

What rifle is worth 2K? The M1A used to sell for $1000. Now maybe more. Steyr scouts with the Cooper package going for 2k. Beats the living shit out of an AK finnish or not.

I like Glenmorangie but at what $25 bucks a bottle it's not worth that much either.

Century Arms in Florida is importing a Romanian AK clone I think they call it the WASP something like that sells for $450 and CA has to do extensive work to reconfigure it to accept double stack magazines and bayonet lug. It works like the AKs always work, utterly reliable and is a good buy.

Century Arms in Florida is importing a Romanian AK clone I think they call it the WASP something like that sells for $450
Why buy that when you can purchase an actual Romanian AK for $300-350 ready to go with two 30 round magazines?

I have got to shoot a couple of them and right out of the box the quality is good enough for anyone unless you are going for some serious target shooting. In that case you are better to buy a 308 or the like. If the balloon goes up and you need an AK you won’t have time to sit around aim and fire single shots. The accuracy quality of a Romanian compared to a $1,000 or better AK won’t make that much difference.

Besides for $1,000 you can buy 3 Romanian AK’s and 1,000 rounds of ammo.

I should be their spokesperson. :p

My neighbor says one should give the extra $50-$100 for the package with the bayonet lug. In my opinion a fixed bayonet is the most annoying accessory to a gun.

Don't buy a Century Arms firearm, ever. Don't set yourself up with a company that doesn't even answer your e-mail or phone call when you have an inevitable complaint about their shitty, slapped together guns.

I tried to sell my Century Arms FAL on consignment at my local gun shop, the owner had the same experience I've had with them: a faulty product and a customer service dept that exists in name only. Needless to say he wouldn't take the gun.

You can easily get a Romanian AK for $350 at any gun show, why go to Century Arms?

Totally, absolutely correct. Century Arms FALs: the worst.

If you want a FAL, get one reassembled by DSA of Northern Illinois. Salvaggio uses original Herstal designs, quality imported used parts, high quality domestic content, etc. In principle, its the same methodology imported parts kits cleaned up and mounted on US made receivers-- except he does it right. No matching up of miscellaneous inch and metric parts, for examples. The "parts kit" you buy from Salvaggio will not be a grab bag of parts, but one which has been disassembled off one weapon only. Also he has incorporated some obvious product improvements. Century FAL? Crap. They are so bad I would not buy ANYTHING from them.

How do you get the money for all this firepower? I am very jealous.

How do you get the money for all this firepower? I am very jealous.

A job perhaps?

Guns what guns? I'm a pacifist, I dont own any guns. I just shoot for fun once in a while using other people's guns. lol

A job perhaps?

Piss off, fucker.

Fuck it! I will try out this "ignore" button. I cannot stand that pecking fuckwad. I am really sick of these one-liner fucks!

I am really sick of these one-liner fucks!

Oh, really? :D