Often overlooked today the M1 Carbine is one of the few long guns that I can, without reservation, recommend for comrades to own as a survival firearm in terms of Civil War Two or other calamitous events, such as riots etc.

Magazines are in 15 round or so-called banana clip (sic) 30 round magazines.

The round itself with today's bullets and powders is an effective round for self defense purposes. I have found the M1 Carbine to be very accurate and easy to shoot well and comfortable and a delight. It is my #1 choice for sturmgewehr.

Unless you reload hollow point rounds the M-1 doesn’t have a lot of knockdown power. It will penetrate a target but there have been cases during WWII of soldiers getting shot 8 times before falling.

I am not knocking the M-1 but warning people to understand this. The M-1 also shoots the same slug as the 7.62x25 Russian pistol. That is one of the best pistol rounds especially in hollow point.

The M-1 is a good defense gun as you can carry several hundred rounds easily, but first you need to load your own rounds to get the proper effectiveness. In the hollow point you don’t get over penetration, but in the ball round you get over penetration and the gun becomes very dangerous as in shooting through your target and landing somewhere you don’t want the round to land.

And rounds are twice as expensive as 7.62x39 which has much more knockdown, penetration and hollow point.

In the event of a collapse it doesn’t matter, however if you live in a urban area the 30 carbine round will most likely penetrate and exit your target (armed invader) and lodge somewhere about 200-300 feet beyond unless it hits a solid wall or some other back drop.

Location is always a factor in deciding the perfect home defense weapon. Where I live you could use a 50 caliber and it really wouldn’t matter since I am surrounded by mountains and neighbors are few and far between. In an apartment a 20-gauge shotgun would be preferable or some other smaller caliber weapon, in a semi populated area a good 12 gauge is good.

In a total collapse anything you can get your hands on will be fantastic.

BTW I have seen a 30-caliber revolver and the M-1 uses the same slug as the Russian 2.62x 25 even though the brass for the Russian is a short bottleneck round. You can interchange the slugs.

Again the Russian pistol is a great round but over penetrates in anything less than hollow point or populated area. Ammunition is around $8.00 for 70 rounds.
Good points, Sean. I'm not quite sure I agree about the overpenetrating potential of that round with a solid bullet, but everything else is good information.

Unless you reload hollow point rounds the M-1 doesn’t have a lot of knockdown power. It will penetrate a target but there have been cases during WWII of soldiers getting shot 8 times before falling.

I am not knocking the M-1 but warning people to understand this. The M-1 also shoots the same slug as the 7.62x25 Russian pistol. That is one of the best pistol rounds especially in hollow point.

The M-1 is a good defense gun as you can carry several hundred rounds easily, but first you need to load your own rounds to get the proper effectiveness. In the hollow point you don’t get over penetration, but in the ball round you get over penetration and the gun becomes very dangerous as in shooting through your target and landing somewhere you don’t want the round to land.

And rounds are twice as expensive as 7.62x39 which has much more knockdown, penetration and hollow point.


On the expense of the ammunition I suppose the lack of surplus ammo for the carbine may be problematic for some, however if one purchases say a box of 50 rounds a week or a month soon one has quite a nice little stash of ammo for the possible, make that probable, fall of America.
There are some nice soft point bullets and factory rounds for the carbine that are very effective in terms of disabling one's attackers. It is not a super powerful round, that is quite obviously true, however the question is, using soft points or hollow points, does it have the range and power to effectively allow for engagement, evasion and escape against hostile forces? I suggest that it does.

I know it can be difficult to make comparisons based upon dry statistics etc so I woud suggest that if at all possible try out the M1 Carbine, fire a box of ammo through it and see how it points , how it comes up on target and how the bullet performs at various ranges.

I find it handles the best of any of the so-called 'assault' type weapons.

It is old, it is not very popular or scary looking but it does what Carbine Williams designed it for, to work in a situation where there are multiple bad guys and where you need to be able to hit what you aim at.

That is the key, you can have a AK-47 round and shoot a target 8x and if you do not hit a vital area I scarecly think he would die or be otherwise disabled any more than if that target was hit in the same places with a .30 US Carbine round.

As far as 'home defense' there is no doubt that any centerfire rifle or handgun, most of the handguns that is, are overly penetrative for apartments and houses, too much risk of exiting the residence and hitting John Q Public.

It may be that these AK semi auto versions are what meet the needs of comrades today but do at least try out the M1 Carbine, it is a good firearm.

It shoots 30.06 which is more plentiful than niggers at KFC. All you need, for survival purposes, is a handgun, a shotgun and a rifle that can reach out and touch someone. 30.06 fits the bill nicely.

You can, or could, get them at DCS meets.

On the expense of the ammunition I suppose the lack of surplus ammo for the carbine may be problematic for some, however if one purchases say a box of 50 rounds a week or a month soon one has quite a nice little stash of ammo
Here a 50 round box of soft points cost $30.00. You can buy 1,000 rounds of AK ammo at times for $79.95. You get hollowpoint hard ball or mix. That is why the M-1 hits me right in the wallet area.


I know it can be difficult to make comparisons based upon dry statistics etc so I woud suggest that if at all possible try out the M1 Carbine, fire a box of ammo through it and see how it points , how it comes up on target and how the bullet performs at various ranges.
Here is how you do a poor mans gel shooting. Get some milk jugs or cartons (as long as they are the same) and fill then with water and 3 boxes of plain cheap gelatin. Each mild jug should cost around a dollar. This will get very firm after a couple of hours and even take the heat and stay firm. Shoot into them and compare. This will give you an idea of expansion and knockdown power.

By comparison the AK (Romanian) is far superior at 50 yards. At 100 yards the AK will start shooting larger groups while the 30 carbine stays relatively accurate. At 200 yards the punch is amazingly similar. The AK however has about 3 times the penetration under 100 yards. You can learn this by shooting at trees or a log if you are an environmentalist.


I find it handles the best of any of the so-called 'assault' type weapons.
If you like the sport rifle style. I broke my hand once so I prefer a pistol grip. You can get a Monte Carlo stock for the M-1 that gives you a nice pistol grip style stock.


That is the key, you can have a AK-47 round and shoot a target 8x and if you do not hit a vital area I scarecly think he would die or be otherwise disabled any more than if that target was hit in the same places with a .30 US Carbine round.
At close range under 100 yards there is no comparison the AK is highly superior based on the above mentioned tests.

However you remember it was a 30 carbine Charles Whitman used in Texas when sniping and made the world record civilian mass kill. He used a deer rifle and a 30 carbine for back up. He engaged targets at 300 yards with the 30 carbine but they have much greater accuracy and stopping power when you are shooting down at your target.

Another advantage of the carbine is you can fire 200 rounds through them without any noticeable change. Even a good AK will heat up after 200 rounds. If you are not careful after 30 rounds on a Chinese AK the barrel will become hot enough to set the round off in the chamber. The gun will actually fire by itself.



It may be that these AK semi auto versions are what meet the needs of comrades today but do at least try out the M1 Carbine, it is a good firearm.
I am not knocking the 30 carbine it is a fine weapon and I would recommend one to anyone especially women. It is small accurate reliable and shells are not heavy.

AK Pros
Cheap
Reliable
Accurate under 100 yards
Superior knock down power under 100 yards
Superior penetration under 100 yards
Easier to field strip

M-1 Pros
Small
Lightweight Ammunition
Superior accuracy after 100 yards
Superior knockdown power after 100 yards
Sturdier design
American made for the most part
Can fire several rounds without any malfunctions or lose of accuracy
Good hunting or survival weapon

Again I am not dumping on the M-1, I am simply making available information based on my experiences with the weapons. :)

I made a post about 6 months ago where they were selling used garands for $200. I have never shot one, only held them. Our local gun store sells them in mint condition for $350. Since I am not experienced with the garand I can only relay information I received from a reliable source that owned one.

He said they had design flaws, the bolt would break your thumb and basically he hated his garand. He owned 2 of them and he didn’t have enough bad things to say about them.

I do know at my local gun store you can buy an original Russian M-44 7.62x54 bolt-action rifle for $63.00 including tax. This is a mint weapon with a bayonet and a five round-fixed magazine. This is a cut down version of the rifle the gooks sniped all the Americans in Vietnam with. You can get ammo in a sealed tin (suitable for burying for a decade) at $100 for a thousand rounds. I have never shot one but I know they are fine weapons and to be manufactured in 1944 and be in top-notch condition they must be good guns. A steel but plate and bayonet makes one suitable for extreme combat. This weapon should be fairly accurate at 500 yards. If you are a good marksman you can hit a man-sized target at 500 yards with iron sites. At 300 yards the 7.62x54 has as much energy as a 44 magnum at point blank range. I think that is enough knockdown power to easily engage an armed assailant.

If you can’t tell I am highly partial to Russian weapons.
It shoots 30.06 which is more plentiful than at KFC. All you need, for survival purposes, is a handgun, a shotgun and a rifle that can reach out and touch someone. 30.06 fits the bill nicely.

You can, or could, get them at DCS meets.

He said they had design flaws, the bolt would break your thumb and basically he hated his garand. He owned 2 of them and he didn’t have enough bad things to say about them.

I do know at my local gun store you can buy an original Russian M-44 7.62x54 bolt-action rifle for $63.00 including tax.

The "Garand thumb" was notorious during WW2, many of our troops had smashed thumbs and had to quickly learn how ornery that Garand can be. It is also too long and too heavy for the sort of involvement that one can generally foresee happening in the future.

The old Russian bolt actions from the 19th century the Moisin-Nagant
were also made in Finland, check the pressure situation as some of them can be overtaxed with some hotter later, WW2 era, ammo, if that is still around.

The Swedish 1896 bolt action was, and is still, an excellent rifle in 6.5x55mm Swedish.

Sean I also appreciated your breakdown of the point/counterpoint on the M1 Carbine and AK clones. Well done.

I own an M1 Carbine. It is a Universal though and the clip only holds 5 rounds. I have noticed that it is fairly accurate up to 300 metres but not much farther. It has some good power but as stated before unless hollow points are used it doesn't have the greatest knockdown power.

I own an M1 Carbine. It is a Universal though and the clip only holds 5 rounds. I have noticed that it is fairly accurate up to 300 metres but not much farther. It has some good power but as stated before unless hollow points are used it doesn't have the greatest knockdown power.

That is actually a refined version of the G.I. M1 Carbine, they made a slight improvement in gas system, I know they used to sell all varieties of mags but they went out of business many years ago and their customer service level was LOW. The rifle itself is excellent example of the M1 Carbine. It should take any aftermarket magazines, I have hadn't had a lot of good luck with aftermarket mags but maybe someone else will tell us of a good manufacturer.

I like the m-1 carbine but hold with Che Guevarra. You want to have the long arm that is carried by the occupation forces because it will allow for easy resupply of parts and ammo. That means AR-15.

Or along those lines, also the M-14/ Springfield M1A in 308. A better choice than AR 15 on many levels.

You can still but a 3006 M1 from fedgov. ODCMP.

Fun topic.

Oh yeah 30 rounders dont work well unless you have the m2 mag catch. But dont get any other m2 parts because if you have too many you can get into trouble. a better idea might be just to stick with the 15 rounders which work just fine.

If you can’t tell I am highly partial to Russian weapons.

Me too. Since owning Russian made or designed rifles I realize how much American gunmakers have shortchanged us.

I'm still kinda partial to my Marlin 30.30 and Remington 870 12 gage and of course, the best handgun ever made, the 1911. Man I love the way that gun looks and shoots.

Naturally subsonic too :)

Since owning Russian made or designed rifles I realize how much American gunmakers have shortchanged us.

I'm still kinda partial to my Marlin 30.30 and Remington 870 12 gage and of course, the best handgun ever made, the 1911.

American firearms are so overpriced it is ridiculous.
Those 3 firearms are as good as it gets.
Yet which one of us was ever content to just own one of each type, i.e. rifle, shotgun, handgun? Not me!

I like the m-1 carbine but hold with Che Guevarra. You want to have the long arm that is carried by the occupation forces because it will allow for easy resupply of parts and ammo. That means AR-15.

When the bell rings and time passes that will become more and more true.
Yet there is a lot of stuff squirreled away in this nation, when all hell breaks loose we have no idea what will surface.

OK, time for some actual info.

The M1 Carbine is a fun little gun, due mainly to the fact it has NO recoil. The 15 rd mags were designed for the M1 Car. and the 30 rd mags were used in the M2 (full auto) version. The 30 rd mags generally don't work all that great, but then you can change guns and they work fine in that gun, but another 30 rd mag won't, you can never tell. The magazine latch has nothing to do with it however, as they were chaged through out the war, due mainly so the soldier would not think the mag catch was the safety.

The Mi Carbine cartridge is pretty weak too. The .357 Mag with a four inch barrel has more power (foot/pounds of energy) at themuzzle then the M1 Carbine does out of a 18" barrel. This is why the M1 has no recoil.

Carbine Williams designed the gun, but Winchester designed the cartridge and it is a copy of the .351 Winchester wich was a very weak semi-auto cartridge used mainly in prisons. Think of a soft loaded .38 Special. In fact I was told (but have not tried it) that a .38 Special could be used in the rifle.

The M1 Carbine was NEVER intended for combat, but was designed for troops who needed to be armed but didn't need a combat rifle, but wanted to have a better chance to hit the target then a pistol gave. Since pistol shooting was limited to 50 rounds at a target, no wonder no one could hit with one! If you were a rear guard, artillary, truck driver, etc. you had a M1 Carbine, for front line use you had a M1 Rifle (Garand), Thompson, etc. Since the Carbine weighed 6 lb and the rifle/Thompson nearly 10 lb, everyone wanted a Carbine to carry.

The .30 M1 Carbine uses a .308" bullet (110 gr), the same .308" used in the .30-06 (150 gr), .30-30 (170 gr), 7.62x25 (89 gr), etc. The 7.62x39 (AK/SKS) uses a .310" bullet. The 7.62x54R (Mosin-Nagant) uses a .311" bullet.

The Mosin-Nagant (there are a dozen different spellings) rifles were M-91 (1891) and there are more variations than you can imagine made. Just about every cavalry school, police department, and gov't agency had their own model, but these are extremely rare. Basicly you will see the M-91, 91-30, M-38 carbine and M-44 carbine (same as the M-38 except has bayonet mounted) and 91-59 short rifle (looks like a M-38). The Finnish rifles were quite often Russian rifles rebarreled and reworked and are normally M-28 and M-39. The M-39 was the "last" and probably "best" M-N rifle. You can find nearly any make (these were made in at least a dozen countries, including the USA, Russia, Finland, France, China, Poland, Romania, Hungary, etc.) in any variation. Hungary, Romania, Poland, China only made M-44 Carbines however, so if you see a rare variation from WWI with a Romanian receiver it is a fake. The M-91/91-30 and M-38/M-44 were found in Viet-Nam and through out the world, where ever the commies went. The full sized rifles were often used as sniper rifles and used out to 800 yards or more. The Russians had more snipers in WWII than the USSA/England/Canada/Germany combined. The Finns never used the M-44 however, only full sized rifles were made/converted by the Finns.

The proper ammo for the M-91/etc/etc/etc is the 7.62x54 Rimmed 150 gr bullet (often called "light", as in "light ball") and NOT the heavy 174 machine gun ammo! The MG stuff was loaded quite a bit hotter and yes, you can blow a M-91/etc up using it. Normally this is due to other problems, but why take the chance? Here again, the 7.62x54R ammo has more different types than you can ever believe, and each country had a different color code for each type of ball (light/heavy), AP, API, spotting, blank, etc.

Hope this helps.

Just got the current (this would be the July /August, 2005) issue of SMALL ARMS REVIEW and they had an article on the M1 Carbine 30 round magazine. The M2 (full auto) magazine catch/retainer has a third latch or lug on the side to support the third lug on the 30 round M1 mags. The weight of the 30 rd mags would shear off the lugs on the mag if it didn't have the third lug support and the lugs need to be hardened, which most after market mags don't have. That is why I use 15 rd military mags, they are prperly made, feed 100% of the time (unless there is a problem of course), are cheap and easily found. Or at least they were when I got my M1 Carbine.

Since the mag catch/retainer was changed (the safety and mag release were pretty much alike and too many GIs were dumping the mags when trying to hit the safety) they were changed during the war (WWII) and the M2 came in LATE during the war. So you can find any mag catch on any M1 carbine and it may be original to the gun. The ONLY full auto (M2) parts you really need to worry about are the fire control parts needed to fire the gun full auto.

Basicly, the full auto parts are the round bolt (also found on lots of original M1 guns, the round bolt is heavier then the regular bolt, can't remember if they went to it for ease of manufacturing for the M1 as well), the M2 slide, trigger control group and a few small parts that I can't think of off hand. The M2 also had a different stock with a "fatter" belly. You can have the M2 stock, mag latch and bolt, but DO NOT have the M2 slide and trigger control group anywhere near the M1! If you do, and you get caught, the feds will claim you have a machine gun, even if the M2 parts are sitting in a drawer!