Anyone here ever try it?I'm looking hard at it,make old pistons,etc into a $2000 metal lathe,milling machine,drill press.Could make a lot of other useful "tools" with those.

Aluminum is difficult to work with and requires much more energy than does iron. Nevertheless, backyard aluminum smelting has been done

Anyone here ever try it?I'm looking hard at it,make old pistons,etc into a $2000 metal lathe,milling machine,drill press.Could make a lot of other useful "tools" with those.

Here's a good link on that subject:
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

We also had a thread about this a while back:
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?postid=141698#poststop


PS - Welcome to VNN! :cheers:

Go for it, Pale Horse. It's not rocket science. Did it in high school metals class. So cool to see liquid metal pour into a mold, and out comes a solid object.
I don't know what you meant by the comment that iron was easier KLM. We did that too. And it was much more involved. Oxygen lance, dedicated cupola w/blower, coke for fuel. All to make the same items out of iron instead of aluminum.
Did not get to cast bronze, not a teacher's pet. But that looked only slightly more difficult than aluminum.
Ah, the glories of going to a farm school! The ag class even butchered a pig on campus every fall. Can't get that kind of education in a city school!

Aluminum has a tendency to form unwanted gas pockets. Salt can be used to minimize this event. But, one has to practice dosage

Here's a step-by-step article about a guy who cast his own bell housing. It's written sort of satirical towards the person doing the casting. As if he were a tinkerer.
More to follow:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Tuerkenjaeger/agieserei.jpg

Thanks fer the links and the welcome. :cheers:

Huh? Aluminum melts at nearly half the temp of iron and thus requires less energy.

I've known art students who collected cans and scrap and made art casts from it in their garage. You can use it with lost-wax, sand casting, or foam vaporization/replacement (styrofoam-casts) techniques.

Tin and lead casting, of course, you can do from the kitchen stove-top.

Aluminum is difficult to work with and requires much more energy than does iron. Nevertheless, backyard aluminum smelting has been done

Huh? Aluminum melts at nearly half the temp of iron and thus requires less energy...I don't know where the enrgy loss takes place. Since Aluminum is derived from bauxite, the energy loss might lie in the initial processes :confused: I heard that it took 3 times the energy to work aluminum than it took for working iron

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

Cast Aluminum parts,specifically antique car and m/c are beautiful,much moreso than billet.Plus-side also is less material waste,compared to lathe-produced items(unless of course you save and recycle the shavings that a lathe produces.

The Swedes are renowned for producing beautiful replica Harley Davidson caste (haha) parts.
Now that's a funny typo!

I would really love to have a small metal shop though, thats the only reason I'm getting into it.The idea of making my own small engines,8 day clocks,etc is just too cool.
I've been doing a lot of digging into alternative energy,and done a few experiments.I believe making a small engine from aluminum is worth trying,for running on hydrogen.It was done in 1936 in Dallas with an iron engine,but quickly rusted.It actually is not hard to produce hydrogen.

You could try casting in a stainless steel sleeve to take the wear, and resist rust. The types of aluminum that are tough enough for cylinder walls may be difficult to work with as a casting metal. Billets of it are hard to machine. I've been thinking of making my own internal combustion engine from scratch for more than 20 years. Hydrogen would be cool.

Hello Pale Horse and all,

You can find metalworking machines for a good price if you keep your eyes open. Watch for auctions, many good deals can be had if you've got a bit of cash on hand. Lots of old manual machines available.

I would love to come to the point of building a small shop at home myself for developing things. Alternative energy being my main focus. This is a major necessity in order to free ourselves from hymie and his minions.

I believe there are many viable directions to go in the alternative energy area, the reasons many haven't been developed being lack of funding or active suppression.

Aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat. Even though it has a lower melting point, it dissipates the heat so rapidly that it takes more energy to keep it there. I know this from a welding standpoint.

I've been a toolmaker/machinist/welder for nearly 20 years. I have some electronic training and have had some experience with controllers while building special machines. If I can help anyone in these areas I'm available. It's one talent that I have that I can offer here.

You could try casting in a stainless steel sleeve to take the wear, and resist rust. The types of aluminum that are tough enough for cylinder walls may be difficult to work with as a casting metal...
Porsche has been chrome flashing aluminum cylinder walls for years now :mad:

Go for it, Pale Horse. It's not rocket science. Did it in high school metals class. So cool to see liquid metal pour into a mold, and out comes a solid object.
I don't know what you meant by the comment that iron was easier KLM. We did that too. And it was much more involved. Oxygen lance, dedicated cupola w/blower, coke for fuel. All to make the same items out of iron instead of aluminum.
Did not get to cast bronze, not a teacher's pet. But that looked only slightly more difficult than aluminum.
Ah, the glories of going to a farm school! The ag class even butchered a pig on campus every fall. Can't get that kind of education in a city school!

I beleive in the the future of farming with a faith born not of words, but of deeds- Acheivements won by the present and past generations of agriculturalists, in the promise of better days through better ways, even as the better things which we now enjoy have come to us from the struggles of former years.

That is a vision worth fighting for.

"...Historically, the first way to allow the use of solid aluminum cylinders was developed in 1951 by Mahle. This was Chromal, which used a hard chrome plating on the bore of the cylinder. Many aircraft have since used this over the years, too..."
http://www.lnengineering.com/911.html

------------------------------

Huh? Aluminum melts at nearly half the temp of iron and thus requires less energy...True. Aluminum is easy to melt for casting. But, you cannot manufacture an aluminum car door using the same process as sheet metal which can be stamped into individual plates, then spot-welded together. Aluminum doors have to be machined out from solid blocks, using computer guided machine tools. When an aluminum bodied Jaguar or Audi suffer a collision, the repair is rather complicated and expensive. Critical support structures have to be inspected using ultrasound, because cracks aren't able to be seen with the naked eye :eek:

Here's a step-by-step article about a guy who cast his own bell housing...Oops! :o It’s been years since I read this article. He cast his own adapter (Z) ring, to mount a small 4 opposed cylindered automobile engine onto a motorcycle bellhousing which was originally accommodated a 2 opposed cylindered motorcycle engine. The ring is 20 mm thick (slightly greater than ¾ of an inch).
It’s unclear as to exactly what aluminum objects were melted down. But; in this case it made little difference. Because, the ring was later machined from a solid casting, using a lathe. However, this method is never used in modern production. Modern castings are rather complex, to keep waste of this costly metal to a minimum which shows windfall savings after a certain amount of such items produced. The actual ring would have been ribbed to support load and would have never exeeded 20 cubic millimeters in any one place. The design would have been tested by computer load simulation.
For our purposes, the modern method isn’t practical, unless one were to market some series product to order.
Nevertheless, to stay on the safe side, it’s best to use raw material derived from objects which were once related to what the new casting will eventually serve. For example, for casting a bell housing, it would be best to melt down a scrapped bell housing, an alternator housing, a transmission casing, a distributor housing etc…, because aluminum castings consist of various metallic mixtures, to produce certain alloys to suit certain applications

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Tuerkenjaeger/bmw.jpg

I've been in the foundry biz for 20+ years, gray & ductile irons. Don't know too much about aluminum, except its a bitch to de-gas. If anyone needs help on molding, coremaking or patterns, I'm your guy.

...Don't know too much about aluminum, except its a bitch to de-gas...What do you mean by that Billy Boy? Are you patting the mold on the back to get it to fart? Please enlighten us with specifics
General Motors research
Chrysler research
Ford research

What do you mean by that Billy Boy? Are you patting the mold on the back to get it to fart? Please enlighten us with specifics
General Motors research
Chrysler research
Ford research
De-gassing is getting the hydrogen out of the melt. Aluminum has an affinity to entrap H2 when it is molten, which then shows up as gas bubbles in the casting. One has to flux the melt and then flush with nitrogen, or use the old chlorine-based tablets

...One has to flux the melt and then flush with nitrogen, or use the old chlorine-based tabletsIn a previous post, an expert recomended throwing a handful of ordinary table salt, to prevent "Lunker". I tried looking up this German word, but couldn't find a translation. Perhaps, they meant these unwanted gas bubbles :confused:

What do you mean by that Billy Boy? Are you patting the mold on the back to get it to fart? Please enlighten us with specifics
General Motors research
Chrysler research
Ford research


What's up with the white text? Laying some spider bait for the car companies?

More likely to bait their employees, investors and those who would otherwise read an economic page- in a newspaper or weekly publication. They might want to browse the website on other issues.
Now that you mention it, one can see the white print :o. What color does one use to make the spiders invisible?

Anyone here ever try it?I'm looking hard at it,make old pistons,etc into a $2000 metal lathe,milling machine,drill press.Could make a lot of other useful "tools" with those.

Yes. Aluminum works well without usually needing degassing if you follow proper procedures. "Clean foundry practice". Mainly following proper preheat procedures for tools and scrap charges to make sure all moisture is evaporated first.

Al is a lot easier to do starting out in the backyard than trying iron straight away. Al only needs temperatures up to 1350 F to melt, and much simpler home made foundry equipment.

Iron needs to reach 3000F, usually in a cupola.

Go here if your really serious on following this up.

http://stephenchastain.com/store.htm

This mechanical engineer has written several practical books on home foundry work. Order both "Sand Casting Manuals", I & II, and also the "Iron Melting Cupola Furnace". "Oil Fired Tilting Furnace" is optional.

I have all four books and highly recommend them as worthwhile investments.

Also go here: http://lindsaybks.com/ and request a paper catalog first. Most of their inventory isn't listed online, FYI. You'll be amazed at the range of books they offer in small scaled technology.

"Maguire"

Aluminum is difficult to work with and requires much more energy than does iron.

Where on earth did you come up with all that?

Iron's heat of fusion is 13.81 kilojoules per mole.
Aluminum's heat of fusion is 10.71 Kj/Mol.

Iron melts at 2800 F
Aluminum melts at 1221 F

Iron has nearly 3x aluminum's density. Meaning you need
three times the volume of metal for equally sized parts. This is what made aluminum so popular in aircraft.

Then factor in energy losses due to foundry efficiencies which run from 1% to maybe 35% for a Siemans' reverberatory furnace. Wrap it all up and you need about 10x the BTUs to cast the same size part in iron than in aluminum.

You can melt aluminum in a home made steel pipe crucible, using grocery store charcoal in a crude foundry. The small scale foundrymen are unanimous on this point. Start with aluminum first and gain some competence before stepping up to iron.

The equipment needed to melt and pour iron is more elaborate, but still doable on a very small scale. The skill requirement is far higher. You'll need clay graphite or silicon carbide crucibles, propane or oil fuel for a fuel source, good burners, a strong blower and also a good foundry refractory design. And preferably a small cupola furnace fired with coal coke or very high quality hardwood charcoal. i.e. forget the grocery store stuff.

Aluminum is softer than iron and easier to work with hand tools or machine tools. Are you referring to these softer working characterisitics as being 'difficult' just because it clogs up regular files or because saw-cut parts have to be dressed?

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/01/text/00778/chapter4.htm

...Aluminum production from bauxite ore is a three step process. First the alumina is extracted from bauxite ore usually using the Bayer Process. In the Bayer Process, finely crushed bauxite is mixed with sodium hydroxide and placed in a `digester.' High temperatures and pressures in the digester cause reactions in the ore / sodium hydroxide mixture. The result is dissolved aluminum oxide and ore residue. The residues, which include silicon, lead, titanium, and calcium oxides, form a sludge in the bottom of the digester. The aluminum oxide is evaporated off and condensed. Starches and other ingredients are added to remove any remaining impurities from the oxide...