so do any of you guys use aminos or creatine? whatchasay?

The closest thing that I take is a Mega-B each morning.

Don't bother.

You can't take it continuously, just on and off with a "loading" phase in the beginning. This is because it puts stress on the kidneys and liver, which is where the body processes and filters creatine.

For it to work, you will have to drink large amounts of water. And I mean absolutely copious amounts. As in fraternity hazing copious. This water goes to your muscles, but the effects are short term. Lifters rarely keep their gains after they stop using creatine, as it is very difficult to maintain the mass/strength after the water stops pumping. The gains that are made are usually "fair" as in up to a 20% increase in bench press weight after, say, two weeks. The "bulk" you will see is mostly water retention.

I see it mostly as a tool for very serious lifters to get over a dry spell. You will need to be working out, and I mean working. Not casual, like 10 minutes a day or you'll bloat up like a balloon.

Try eating an extra meal. It works a lot better than any of the supplements you'll find at GNC. The only thing that might be worth it would be some of the whey protein, but even then, a half-competent diet plan and consistent intense workouts will work better. These chemicals really start to get expensive after awhile, too. One month's whey and creatine: $80. And you might run out before you see any improvements. And before you know it, bang! $160 for a 20%(maybe) gain after one or two months, gains that will wear off if you don't keep up on your protein intake/creatine cycle.

Also note that there have been consistent reports amongst lifters regarding, how shall I say, excessive movement of the bowels? This stuff can really clean you out. It sure did when I tried it. You will also urinate a lot, which is part of the reason you will need gallons of water. It also isn't unheard of to have pain during urination while using creatine, which is your kidneys telling you to cut it out.

Lastly, plan on cutting out most of your alcohol intake. Nothing quite hinders protein synthesis, like excessive alcohol consumption. If you're taking any of these chemicals while getting wasted the same night, you will most likely negate any gains you might recieve.

There's nothing like blood, sweat, and tears when you want to shape up. No magical concoction can really compare.

I have taken them all prohormones,,creatine,stacks.Real steroids work very well but 1.they are felony's(i would rather have a concealed carry lin.than big muscles)2. you don't know what your taking in todays enviorment.3.can have long term side affects.The only way to safely do them now is through a doctor.Like he said the best workout is a 100%effort and aerobic(timed ,use a countdown timer on your watch don't wait longer than 40 sec between sets)A nutrionist told me creatine also increases your heart size ,that it goes back after you get off it and is safe,but somehow I didn't like the thought of it.I am using N02 now just for the hell of it,I am 49.They are giving it to troops in iraq they say?It seems to have the effects it claims to a good degree.TRAIN HARD :box:

All that being said, creatine is - barring protein/carbohydrate (i.e. food) supplements - the most potent legal (leastwise in these here parts) addition to a weightlifter/bodybuilder feeding regimen.

Don't bother.

You can't take it continuously, just on and off with a "loading" phase in the beginning. This is because it puts stress on the kidneys and liver, which is where the body processes and filters creatine.

For it to work, you will have to drink large amounts of water. And I mean absolutely copious amounts. As in fraternity hazing copious. This water goes to your muscles, but the effects are short term. Lifters rarely keep their gains after they stop using creatine, as it is very difficult to maintain the mass/strength after the water stops pumping. The gains that are made are usually "fair" as in up to a 20% increase in bench press weight after, say, two weeks. The "bulk" you will see is mostly water retention.

I see it mostly as a tool for very serious lifters to get over a dry spell. You will need to be working out, and I mean working. Not casual, like 10 minutes a day or you'll bloat up like a balloon.

Try eating an extra meal. It works a lot better than any of the supplements you'll find at GNC. The only thing that might be worth it would be some of the whey protein, but even then, a half-competent diet plan and consistent intense workouts will work better. These chemicals really start to get expensive after awhile, too. One month's whey and creatine: $80. And you might run out before you see any improvements. And before you know it, bang! $160 for a 20%(maybe) gain after one or two months, gains that will wear off if you don't keep up on your protein intake/creatine cycle.

Also note that there have been consistent reports amongst lifters regarding, how shall I say, excessive movement of the bowels? This stuff can really clean you out. It sure did when I tried it. You will also urinate a lot, which is part of the reason you will need gallons of water. It also isn't unheard of to have pain during urination while using creatine, which is your kidneys telling you to cut it out.

Lastly, plan on cutting out most of your alcohol intake. Nothing quite hinders protein synthesis, like excessive alcohol consumption. If you're taking any of these chemicals while getting wasted the same night, you will most likely negate any gains you might recieve.

There's nothing like blood, sweat, and tears when you want to shape up. No magical concoction can really compare.

Good post, Reusser. Creatine and Whey is a fuckin joke. The only thing that beats good ole "blood, sweat and tears" is a good anabolic steroid stack and I wouldn't recommend that for anybody who isn't getting paid millions to ruin his health and even then it's a bad idea.

All that being said, blood, sweat, and tears + a generous helping of whey and creatine will almost certainly equal better results than those liquids would all by their lonesome. It's a bit like being me, actually: You have one guy with a really outstanding personality but who's not got all that much going face-wise, and another guy with an equally outstanding personality and handsome features. Figuring out who will get the girls isn't exactly rocket science.
No, I won't say which one is me.

Figuring out who will get the girls isn't exactly rocket science.
No, I won't say which one is me.

Lemme guess...you're one of the girls?

I could kill you with a snappy rejoinder right here, but I'll exercise some of that unmistakeably male restraint.

I could kill you with a snappy rejoinder right here

Of that, I have no doubt.


but I'll exercise some of that unmistakeably male restraint.

No...noo!!! Hurt me, spank me! Tell me I'm a bad boy in need of discipline.

Don't bother.

You can't take it continuously, just on and off with a "loading" phase in the beginning. This is because it puts stress on the kidneys and liver, which is where the body processes and filters creatine.
.............
There's nothing like blood, sweat, and tears when you want to shape up. No magical concoction can really compare.

Great reply, thanks. I wont waste $ on that. I've been lifting but not enough to justify that according to your standards. Just wondering. I think I need more protein though. I go through these problems, when I cut down my carbs and get enough protein, I get constipated. I find it hard to get enough fiber, and protein, while still keeping the overall carbs & calories down.

I didn't find creatine to be of any benefit, and quit taking it a while ago. It might be worth your time to talk with a nutritionist that specializes in sports nutrition. It was worth it for me. The biggest thing was knowing what a "balanced diet" really is and the relationships between protein, carbs and fats and how they all work together. It's more complicated than one might think.

L-glutamine is probably a better sup than creatine if you looking to slow catabolism.

Whey protein is no joke. No one ever claimed any kind of dramatic gains from using it, but I'd like to see anyone put on muscle mass without the extra protein. Whey protein is a CONVENIENT way to get that extra protein without all the junk fat and carb calories. Mixing a shake is alot easier than cooking up a meal, especially when you have to do it 6-7 times a day.
Also, it's really not that expensive if you shop around. My local CVS carries it for less than 40 cents a serving. Pretty reasonable price for a meal. :cheers:

BTW, mixing whey protein with skim milk instead of water does wonders to improve the taste, as well as giving you a few extra grams of protein. If you use whey, do yourself a favor and get chocolate flavor. It goes down a lot easier than vanilla. I've also noticed that, for some reason, mixing fresh fruit with your whey shake gives it an acrid, chemical taste, rather than improving the flavor.

You're probably curdling the horrible stuff. What kind of fruits do you put in- citruses, apples...?

I think creatine works.

P.S. Subrosa, what the hell is catabolism???

The opposite of anabolism, which I am sure you know what it is.

Creatine itself doesn't help build mass. It just lets you extend your workout and get in those extra sets. You can take all the creatine you like, but if you don't make your workouts more intense, it won't do you a bit of good.
The stuff is good for an EXPERIENCED lifter who's trying to break a plateau, or just "kick it up a notch".
Personally, I don't mess with it anymore. The real bitch is when you quit taking it. You'll begin to tire more quickly, and after you're used to an hour and a half of supersets, you'll notice the difference quickly. Really bad for motivation, especially if you're easily frustrated, like me.

I've taken Creatine before with mixed results. Some of your experiences totally mirror mine. It is a supplement for people who consistently work out and need a little something 'extra' to keep their body guessing.
Does it work? If you use it it correctly say for approx. 4-6 weeks I'd say yes. But it will not by itself make you bigger. Any positive results with be subtle. Your body can only handle so much intensity to what you are cardio and strength wise able to handle at a certain time. Creatine will assist yes. But don't think all of a sudden you'll have the energy to maintain heavy lifting for 2 hours.

Whey protein is also something that can obviously benefit you. A little known nutritional fact though is that your body can only process 25 grams of protein at one time. So all these people eating steaks while drinking whey and milk to wash it down are just wasting money and straining their kidneys. Over time all this protein gorging can give you kidney and urinary tract issues later in life.
Those whey drinks can be great say first thing in the morning after your body's been asleep for 8 hours feasting on your muscles for protein.
If you work out to get larger, you do need to feed your body quality protein every 3-4 hours. Can you really eat a healthy meal so often?
Hence the benefit of whey protein and the like.

Supplements do work if you consistenty work out and need additional nutritional support. I have been really slacking in the exercise dept. lately due to my new job requirements but all this talk makes me want to go to the gym instead of work.
:cool:

Good luck with all your exercise goals.

A little known nutritional fact though is that your body can only process 25 grams of protein at one time.

As common as this and similar statements are, I have yet to see a reliable source for them.

Atkins? Effective diet, but it is constipating. I'm sure you know better, but for those who don't, don't stay in the first two week phase because it works so well. It's not good for you.

.....

I'm suprised at how many folks here lift weights.

The induction phase made me stink on top of everything else. That was unacceptable. Also I found it damn near impossible to keep it down to that low level of carbs each day. Basically now I eat like a diabetic: high protein, whole grains, adequate fiber via natural sources, and frequent meals and snacks to keep a steady blood sugar level. I just need to add protein, so I will try this whey stuff.

I need the whole grains. Whole wheat and oatmeal mostly. I've tried other crap, but basically I dont want to waste a bunch of time brewing up these wierd oatmeal stews. I just eat whole grain breads in a lunch sandwich. That keeps the shit moving and gives good energy during the afternoon. My diet is good right now, I just need to add protein while reducing the overall calories just a wee smidgeon.

As for amino acids I have seen lots of "arginine" in these OTC hardon concoctions. Is arginine s'posed to jazz up your hardons or something? LOL

I don't get that Starkist quip.

Why not? I've already told all there is to know about the subject.

Where is that old bastard?

I tried creatine and it gave me a headache, i felt awful.

I've heard all the players, like 99% of them in the NFL, NBA, baseball, use steroids.

Just look at pictures of people back in the 60's, the 50's, nobody got that big naturally.

they can all pass steroid tests by simply not taking them for a month before the tests. They don't take them all the time, but from what I hear they nearly all use them to bulk up, then maintain their size.

so do any of you guys use aminos or creatine? whatchasay?
I got some creatine on sale once and it was okay, but I usually take arginine or (preferably) ornithine supplements. They have about the same effect, stimulating release of growth hormone, but arginine is cheaper and a little less effective. One large egg contains about 250mg of arginine, so if you want to eat a lot of eggs you can get it that way. (Eggs have a whole complex of amino acids; if I feel that my energy is low I eat eggs and I feel well again.)

These amino acids are actually good for you if you don't overdo them. Overdoing would evidently require a very great amount, since Wal-Mart sells a product with a recommended daily dose of 12,000mg of arginine--48 eggs' worth--daily. I don't think that there is any reason to "cycle" them either.

Some of the herbs are also effective. One of my favorite herbs is schizandra; it seems to make exercise more enjoyable. Schizandra tastes pretty good mixed into applejuice or V-8 Splash. Siberian ginseng (eleuthero) is good when I have let myself get physically run-down. Tribulus terrestris is an effective testosterone-production stimulant but don't take too much, because your body will convert the excess testosterone into estrogen. I prefer the amino acids, because they leave it to my body to decide how much testosterone to produce.

I am not sure why some people are bringing up steroids. That is a whole different matter.

For all the ginko, arginine, horny goat weed etc, anybody with hardon problems should just go out and get some Cialis instead. Easy enough with or without a physician.

As for creatine, I've been using some since I made this post. I've gotten slightly bigger but whether it's placebo or just more regular lifting or what, who knows. I wont buy any more. I picked up some aminos instead.

So did I ask if DHEA needs to be cycled or not? If its a hormonal precursor than maybe so eh? I did that for a while earlier this year and laid off a few months but I think I will pick that up again, I just scored some half price at CVS.

I have exercised more in the past year since I was 20 years old. That's over a decade ago, more than that I wont say. I can easily get ten minutes more per day by posting less on this forum. That will be good lifting time and probably a fair trade off especially if some of the other irons in my fire heat up hot enough.

Here's to another good year folks!

For all the ginko, arginine, horny goat weed etc, anybody with hardon problems should just go out and get some Cialis instead. Easy enough with or without a physician.

As for creatine, I've been using some since I made this post. I've gotten slightly bigger but whether it's placebo or just more regular lifting or what, who knows. I wont buy any more. I picked up some aminos instead.

So did I ask if DHEA needs to be cycled or not? If its a hormonal precursor than maybe so eh? I did that for a while earlier this year and laid off a few months but I think I will pick that up again, I just scored some half price at CVS.

I have exercised more in the past year since I was 20 years old. That's over a decade ago, more than that I wont say. I can easily get ten minutes more per day by posting less on this forum. That will be good lifting time and probably a fair trade off especially if some of the other irons in my fire heat up hot enough.

Here's to another good year folks!
Taking arginine a partial equivalence to eating eggs. That's why the military feeds its soldiers eggs.

I understand that there are some risks with DHEA.

Stay away from yohimbe altogether. Heard of crunky? The condition niggers are usually in denoting crazy/drunk? Yohimbe makes you crorny: crazy/horny. Abjure that shite.

I've heard that African tribes use yohimbe to fuel week-long orgies, swapping partners, male AND female, every couple of hours. And people wonder why the AIDS rate is so high... :rolleyes:
Back in my stoner days, I tried yohimbe for a "high". What I got was 8 hours of vomiting, double vision and a PAINFUL hard-on that wouldn't go away, even with the help of a female companion. Definitely not something I'd use for a health supplement. :(

I go through these problems, when I cut down my carbs and get enough protein, I get constipated. I find it hard to get enough fiber, and protein, while still keeping the overall carbs & calories down.

Da Boss eats a banana every morning and takes a chewable fiber supplement. He loves pasta so he gets his share of carbs, but he works out every day and takes vitamin supplements and at 50 years old, that middle age belly still hasn't attached itself to him.

All you guys bashing creatine clearly don't understand how it works. Creatine is NOT a test. precursor or a prohormone. It will not, by itself, increase the weight you can lift.
What it WILL do is increase muscle stamina and endurance. Lets say on your first set you do 8 reps. Normally, your second set will decrease by a couple reps. Creatine helps negate the muscle fatigue, allowing you to do the same, or nearly so, amount of reps on your second and third sets.
Simply put, creatine helps "fuel" your muscles, allowing you to work them harder and longer. This extra intensity is what makes your gains greater.
The benefit from creatine is also great for endurance athletes, like runners, swimmers and even grapplers.