What is the best military surplus bolt-action available, that is reasonably priced, ammo-type fairly plentiful, that can be effective at long-ranges (500-1000 yards ?
I'm on a budget, and I want the best bang for my buck.

The Russian M-44 which shoots the 7.62x54 is your best bet for a cheap reliable weapon. Around here they sell for $63.00 tax included. The rounds can be purchased at around $10.00 per hundred. They are reliable and accurate. You can bang them around all day without a problem. The 7.62x54 is the Russian version of the American 30.06. For the price you cannot beat a Russian or Russian design in weapons.

Also this is an original Russian surplus. The gunshop here has several and you can hand pick the best one. Look for all matching serial numbers and good barrel rifling. They also function well with stripper clips so you can load them very fast. They shoot 5 rounds in a fixed magazine which can load from the bottom or top.


http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976616517-1.jpg


You can buy a Turkish 8mm Mauser for around $35.00 but they are not as high quality and they are about 2 feet longer than the Russian carbine. Another feature of the Russian M-44 is it is short so you can carry it around easily.

Is that 30 cal. or 30.06, big difference.
Us M-14 was 7.62

M-48 Yugoslav Mauser.

Another good rifle you should be able to purchase for about $90.00 is a Yugoslav SKS with a bayonet and grenade launcher. (no grenades included). I have seen them go for $70.00 out the door in Ashland, and that is in about 90% condition with matching serial numbers.

The M-1 is great to as it shoots 30-06 rounds. You can buy them for about $10.00/100 already loaded in stripper clips. They go sometimes for $300 each. Very reasonable for an automatic 30-06.

Get a piece of history:
an M1 Garand rifle

By Mike Blank





What follows is my personal quest to acquire an M1 Garand through the Civilian Marks-manship Program (CMP). We’ve all heard about getting government Garands, but personally I never knew anyone who had, so I thought I would give it a try and document my experience. My hope at the outset is that this article will encourage more of you out there to do the same while you still can. That flat panel monitor, digital camera, or new rifle will probably still be there and mostly likely be cheaper next year, but who knows for how much longer you’ll be able to buy a piece of history in the form of an M1 Garand rifle for five hundred dollars or less and have it shipped straight to your door.


The M1 Garand as it appeared, fresh in its box. Notice, at left the accessories package which included a sling and a single en bloc magazine.


Friday 3/26: While standing in one of my favorite local gun stores I see the proprietor hand a nice M1 Garand over the counter to a perspective buyer with the comment that it was a just like in “Band of Brothers.” They then ended up in a good discussion that included discussing the buyer’s military past. At this point the shop owner asked him if he had considered buying a Garand through the CMP as his discharge papers exempted him from the marksmanship requirements. The CMP—I hadn’t looked into them in years. Given that the price they were discussing on the Garand was almost a grand, I thought I might want to give them another look.

Saturday 3/27: Finally I got a moment to look at the CMP website (www.odcmp.com) and I was very surprised. I seem to remember that in an earlier day you could roughly specify grade and that’s it. Also, there were limits on the number, not that that is a big deal for most of us, but it should be noted. Finally, you also had to compete in a CMP associated shoot and qualify with a certain level of marksmanship. Not that this is an arduous task, but it is time consuming and time is something we are all short on. So completing the marksmanship criteria, and then not having much of a choice wasn’t appealing. How times have changed. Now my Concealed Carry Permit fulfills the marksmanship requirement. Military discharge records still work as well, but so do a whole host of other certifications. They have also streamlined the process for repeat customers. So buying again, be it another rifle or ammunition, will be faster. This is due in part to the fact that the form that documents you are you is valid for three years. Most importantly, you can now specify not only grade, but manufacturer as well. So if you want a Winchester, you’ll get a Winchester. However, at this point there is a waiting list for International Harvester made Garands and the wait list is closed. The prices currently range from $350 for a Rack Grade Danish Issue to $1300 for a Collector Grade International Harvester should they have one available. Either way these prices are far less than can be found even on Internet auction sites.

Garands are not the only rifles available through the CMP. Currently you can buy M1903s, M1903A3s, M1917 Enfields, 22 Caliber Kimber Target Rifles, and it’s anyone’s guess what will come up under the heading Misc Rifles. As of this writing this category lists Mann Accuracy Barrels.


The M1 Garand


Tuesday 3/30: After trying to chase my uncle down for a few days I finally met up with him. He is the official notary in the family, and the statement attesting to the fact that you are who you say you are and can buy one of these requires a notary to guarantee your signature. So it’s into the Priority Mail envelope with all the paperwork and off to Alabama. Now begins the wait. I hate waiting, don’t you?

Wednesday 4/14: An email arrives from CMP with bad and worse news. The bad news is my Florida driver’s license didn’t qualify for proof of citizenship, so I had to fax over either a photocopy of my passport or birth certificate. The worse news is the Winchester manufactured Garands are on an approximately one-year back order. I reply with a faxed copy of my birth certificate and email asking what is available now.

Thursday 4/15: I receive a response saying the Springfield Garands are available now and the Harrington & Richardson Garands should be available in two months. Time to contemplate.


Eight-round clip with .30-06 ammunition for the M1’s en bloc magazine


Friday 4/16: I decide the best move is to double down and buy insurance. I augment my order to two Winchesters and one Springfield. Well you didn’t think I could wait a year did you? I get an email back acknowledging that my order has been amended to two Winchesters and one Springfield. Curiously enough, they now comment that it might take two years to clear the Winchester backorder. Maybe I should have made it four Winchesters.

Thursday 4/22: I get a call at work from my wife. She utters the words I’ve been waiting to hear, “FedEx just dropped off a gun; I take it you’ll be home early?” Unfortunately as Mr. Murphy is seldom wrong I end up having to work later then usual and the traffic seemed unusually heavy on the way home. As soon as I arrive I make right for the bedroom where the rifle is now waiting.

The box is extremely well built and there isn’t a scratch on it; so far so good. Four strips of tape and the box opens easily. The rifle is held in place by dark gray foam pads. The CMP does a great job packing up the Garand so it won’t die an undeserved death during shipping. After lifting the top layer of foam I see her. There is no mistaking the look of a well-used Garand. I’m pleased to see they’ve included a clip and sling along with some instructions and brochures from a few companies offering their help in caring for and feeding your new Garand. An added bonus is a Certificate of Authenticity that states the model, serial number, who it was sold to, and the date signed by the Director of the CMP.


Almost all of the the M1 Garands will have seen duty and will come with nicks in their stocks and the parkerized finish worn from the metal, but all should be serviceable and in working order.


I lift the Garand out of the box and give it a quick physical inspection. There are only two real ugly spots. One is up at the front of the rifle where wood meets metal on the forestock and the other is where someone put some masking tape on the stock, probably back during the Kennedy administration. Other than that it’s just got the normal dings and dents, as one would expect. Upon further inspection it becomes clear that the forestock portions appear to be replacements as they are far less aged than the buttstock.

Next my attention shifts to the serial number. It reads 3,687,XXX. Now I’m not knowledgeable enough to know what year that puts the rifle’s birth date on, but with some quick checking on armscollector.com I get the response: 1945. Doing a little more reading it comes in highly unlikely that it was made in time to make it into the fray in either Europe or Japan, but at least it can claim WWII lineage. Further proof of this lineage is found in the markings on the buttstock where the cartouche reads SA NFR and has the cross cannons right next to it identifying it as a late WWII piece. I guess I’ll just have to buy a few more to see if I can get an early WWII rifle, such a pity. But for now, I’m just going to enjoy going out and blasting away my ‘06 ammo and listening to that wonderful “ba-ding” as the clip pops out every eighth round.



I can’t say enough about how friendly and quick this whole process was. The CMP’s personnel were both courteous and prompt in responding to all inquiries I had and in resolving the small issues that came up. If you’ve ever wanted a Garand I suggest there is no time like the present to go to get one.

(Readers wishing to obtain an M1 Garand through the CPM can write to Civilian Marksmanship Program, PO Box 576, Port Clinton, OH 43452, but it’s easier to go online to www.odcmp.com.)




Click the link for pictures
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/blank89.html

Last year I bought a worn but usable bolt-action German Mauser complete with a tin case of new ammo thrown in to go with it; the whole lot for the equivalent of only 200 Pounds Sterling. Mausers and other classic weaponry are on sale at Muttrah Souk, Nizwa Souk, and Bahla arms market in Oman - A cheap deal is available, but maybe its not exactly in your neck of the woods?. :rolleyes:

Pistols are illegal but other consumer goods on sale in Oman include hand grenades in Sallallah.

Bolt action Shotguns that are desirable:
Secondhand 10 gauge Marlin goose guns are sometimes up for grabs cheap - not least because its hard to buy 10 gauge heavy ammo these days.

Thank you gentlemen, for the info on the various rifles. I have narrowed it down, after some research, to about 3 different types of rifle:

1) All variants of the 8mm Mauser, Model 1898, esp. German 98K carbines.
2) Mosin-Nagant Model 1891's, and the Model 1944 in 7.62 X 54
3) British .303 Lee-Enfield

#1 and #2 seem to have ammo that is abundant. #3, the .303 British, is a round that I don't see advertised for sale as much. However the British rifle is supposed to be very accurate, with a lot of long-range punch.

I suppose it boils down to the Mauser 98, and the Russian Mosin-Nagant.

Someone mentioned the semi-auto M-1 Garand, which although, a superb rifle, is considerably more costly than the bolt-actions I mentioned.

Stick with the Mauser K98 and the Springfield 1903. Of the "old" boltguns, they have the most common ammunition, and the best sights. Mosin-Nagant is a distant third, having relatively common ammo, durable construction, but really shitty sights. Be aware that most Mosin M44 variants were sighted in with the bayonet extended, which screws with your groups when you shoot it bayo folded in.

Stay away from any oddball cartridges, unless you are a hardcore reloader. For example, the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin is a superbly accurate, finely crafted rifle from a lost era that can be had for under $100. But the ammunition is very hard to find. Even the best guns are just paperweights without a good supply of ammunition.

Also consider looking at used sporting rifles. It isn't uncommon to find used .308/.30-06 Remingtons, Rugers, Winchesters, Savages, etc. for really cheap just after hunting season ends. They will almost certainly be more accurate than most of the surplus rifles, and they will be a lot easier to scope.

M-48 Yugoslav Mauser.

mitchell arms is selling a batch of those like new

The Russian M-44 which shoots the 7.62x54 is your best bet for a cheap reliable weapon. Around here they sell for $63.00 tax included. The rounds can be purchased at around $10.00 per hundred. They are reliable and accurate. You can bang them around all day without a problem. The 7.62x54 is the Russian version of the American 30.06. For the price you cannot beat a Russian or Russian design in weapons.

Also this is an original Russian surplus. The gunshop here has several and you can hand pick the best one. Look for all matching serial numbers and good barrel rifling. They also function well with stripper clips so you can load them very fast. They shoot 5 rounds in a fixed magazine which can load from the bottom or top.


http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976616517-1.jpg


You can buy a Turkish 8mm Mauser for around $35.00 but they are not as high quality and they are about 2 feet longer than the Russian carbine. Another feature of the Russian M-44 is it is short so you can carry it around easily.

the best kind of Moisin Nagant is the Finnish. Sometimes called Sako or M 39. They are more accurate than Russky ones. SOG had a nice batch, dont know if they still have em or not. stripper clips are available and plastic aftermarket stocks too.

Thank you gentlemen, for the info on the various rifles. I have narrowed it down, after some research, to about 3 different types of rifle:

1) All variants of the 8mm Mauser, Model 1898, esp. German 98K carbines.
2) Mosin-Nagant Model 1891's, and the Model 1944 in 7.62 X 54
3) British .303 Lee-Enfield

#1 and #2 seem to have ammo that is abundant. #3, the .303 British, is a round that I don't see advertised for sale as much. However the British rifle is supposed to be very accurate, with a lot of long-range punch.

I suppose it boils down to the Mauser 98, and the Russian Mosin-Nagant.

Someone mentioned the semi-auto M-1 Garand, which although, a superb rifle, is considerably more costly than the bolt-actions I mentioned.

I'm going to try and steer you towars the Gibbs refinished enfield jungle carbine in 308. NOT 303. 308. the reason for this is simple: 308 is and always will be cheap and plentiful, and the enfield is a very fast repeater for a bolt action, 10 rd capacity. That's as good of firepower as you will get in a bolt action. Also, for those who know that this model had a wandering zero, yes Gibbs rifle cured the wandering zero problem. So this is an awesome rifle. I dont have time to give you a link, surely someone else can kindly do so, thanks!

PS one more reason to chose 308. Che Guevarra said that the insurgent must always choose the rifle of the standing army. Next best thing is choosing one chambered for ammo that they are still using. Not that we're planning an insurgency... we're just "keeping our ammo dry" LOL

The Russian M-44 which shoots the 7.62x54 is your best bet for a cheap reliable weapon. Around here they sell for $63.00 tax included. The rounds can be purchased at around $10.00 per hundred. They are reliable and accurate. You can bang them around all day without a problem. The 7.62x54 is the Russian version of the American 30.06. For the price you cannot beat a Russian or Russian design in weapons.

Also this is an original Russian surplus. The gunshop here has several and you can hand pick the best one. Look for all matching serial numbers and good barrel rifling. They also function well with stripper clips so you can load them very fast. They shoot 5 rounds in a fixed magazine which can load from the bottom or top.


http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976616517-1.jpg


You can buy a Turkish 8mm Mauser for around $35.00 but they are not as high quality and they are about 2 feet longer than the Russian carbine. Another feature of the Russian M-44 is it is short so you can carry it around easily.
Sixty-three fuckin' dollars?!? This ain't 1963 and you're not Lee Harvey Oswald buying a Mauser through the classifieds, ya know. And $10 for a box of 100 7.62X54 ammo??? I know military surplus is cheap, but this sounds too damn cheap.

Got any addresses?...I'm interested.

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7157

SOG M44 Report

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I ordered an SOG Russian M44 last wednesday, well I had put the $10 handpick on it for matching bolt.
This is what I Got: I opened the box and was horrified at the amount of cosmoline,I thought I had gotten ripped off from the ruffness of the buttstock, the rifle wouldnt come out of the box due to slipping out of my hands. After approx. 45 min cleaning I had :
1 1946 Izzy Russian with practically 100% Bluing, BRAND NEW bore, only the bolt doesnt match....called SOG, they apologized and are sending me my $10 back since I couldnt part with such a gun. The wood is crack/dent free but it is scuffed up (no biggie) The bolt # is only couple hundred off...I am VERY VERY Happy with what will turn out to be a $59 purchase after handpick refund.
To put it plainly...you can see yourself in the blueing
One question though, under the barrel in big letters is "H2064", anbody know what this is? I havent seen it on any other M44.
THANKS TO SOG!
Bryan

P.S. will try to post pictures soon as my camera works

mitchell arms is selling a batch of those like new


Mitchell is a lying bastard that tries to claim that they are "a type of K98" made on German tooling. Of course this is nonsense because they were produced 3 years after the war(he's selling M48s) and they show the same general design as the M24s Yugoslavia used to use. Oddly enough History channel actually puts its logos on his add, another act that smashes History channel's already dubious credibility.

Boarders sporting goods in Ashland Kentucky. They are the biggest gun store in Ky. The ammo is the old Garand ammunition in the stripper clips. I was wrong about it. It is actually about $18.00 for a hundred rounds. I was thinking 10 rounds to a stripper clip but it is 8. They usually run about $100 everywhere else. I saw them for $56.00 last Wednesday, and they usually sell very fast.

I don’t have the phone number but google gun stores in Ashland Ky.


Sixty-three dollars?!? This ain't 1963 and you're not Lee Harvey Oswald buying a Mauser through the classifieds, ya know. And $10 for a box of 100 7.62X54 ammo??? I know military surplus is cheap, but this sounds too cheap.

Got any addresses?...I'm interested.

It's not exactly bolt-action, but I was always an HK fan myself ;)

http://www.impactguns.com/store/RI1095X.html

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/century_RI1008X.jpg

but yeah, if you can find surplus military guns for the right price you can't go wrong :D

Got any addresses?...I'm interested.
"SERVICE GRADE"
MN 91/30 COMES WITH BAYONET
ALL GUN NUMBERS MATCH
Guns caliber is 7.62X54R

http://www.ammoman.com/guns/MN9130.jpg

COMES WITH SLING, BAYONET AND AMMO POUCH.
C & R ELIGIBLE - LIMITED SUPPLY

$50.00 Each

PN# GUN-MN9130SG


http://www.ammoman.com

The Russian/Soviet Mosin-Nagant rifles are your best VALUE in surplus rifles. I prefer the M-38 to the other variants. The M-38 is a handy carbine length gun that balances nicely, unlike the stupid M-44 version with integral bayonet.

I purchased a couple of M-38s for about $75 each.

Positive attributes of the Mosin are:

1) Cheap to buy -- you can buy a half dozen for the price of a used AR-15.

2) Cheap surplus ammo -- AP ammo is also available, and cheap.

3) Powerful. The 7.62X54R round is the equivalent of .308 Winchester.

4) Reasonably accurate. I can consistently hit a man-sized silhouette target off-hand at 100 meters.

5) Dead reliable.

The only bad thing about these guns is the corrosive surplus ammo. You have to clean them properly to avoid rust.

For the Mausers, the M-48 is a bit rough and not as sweet as my Czech VZ-24.

The VZ-24 8mm Mauser variant is a very nicely finished rifle, the ones available I have seen and shot are very accurate as well (I use mine for hunting).

I changed out the rear sight for a mojo peep sight, have a real blast knocking over bowling pins at 100 yards. Only complaint about the 24 is the straight bolt.

For the most part I find Mitchells to be overpriced, they take a military rifle clean it up nice and sell it for double what you could have picked it up for yourself. I will give them credit they do a nice job on the refinishing, but as an amature gunsmith I prefer to do all the work myself.

The Mosins out there are a great deal, the ammo is plentiful and cheap as well. Some of the M-44 and 38's I have seen look like they were never issued, the bores were beautiful. Only thing is that the 7.62X54 round kicks like a mule. More so than the 8mm in my opinion, especially through those small carbines.