An interesting site, Islamic, but like the Vedic "Forbidden Archeology" people there are some good points and pictures. -- FJ.

http://www.thestoneage.org/stone_age_introduction.php



95,000 Year Old Flutes:
http://www.thestoneage.org/res/108.jpg


From the introduction:


The evolutionist historical perspective studies the history of mankind by dividing it up into several periods, just as it does with the supposed course of evolution itself. Such fictitious concepts as the Stone Age, Bronze Age and Iron Age are an important part of the evolutionist chronology. Since this imaginary picture is presented in schools and in television and newspaper stories, most people accept this imaginary picture without question and imagine that human beings once lived in an era when only primitive stone tools were used and technology was unknown.

Yet when archaeological findings and scientific facts are examined, a very different picture emerges. The traces and remains that have come down to the present—the tools, needles, flute fragments, personal adornments and decorations—show that in cultural and social terms, humans have always lived civilized lives in all periods of history.

Form "About the Author":

...The following quotation from the book The Evolution Deceit was also included: "The theory of evolution is nothing but a deception imposed on us by the dominators of the world system." The author has also produced various works on Zionist racism and Freemasonry and their negative effects on world history and politics. The Zionism criticised by the author in his books is the baseless claims of Zionist extremists pretend to world sovereignty, regard other human beings as worthless entities, maintain that the Jews are the chosen people and that God is theirs alone. Yet the author's writings very definitely do not imply a rejection of the Jews' right to live in peace and security within the borders of their own state.

His pen-name, Harun Yahya, is formed from the names "Harun" (Aaron) and "Yahya" (John) in the esteemed memory of the two Prophets who struggled against infidelity.

Many works of Harun Yahya are being currently translated into English, French, German, Italian, Russian, Spanish, Arabic, Portuguese, Albanian, Serbo-Croat (Bosnian), Polish, Urdu, Indonesian, Kazakh, Azeri, Malay and Malayalam. The target is to translate all books into English and many other languages in the near future, and thus to make them available for the benefit of all people...

Sad, in fact tragic, but we will probably never know much at all about the true history of the human race. I bet the truth is vastly more interesting than the "Great-Wall-of-History, 4000 BC," story that we are taught. It's funny how the religious nutters, and the materialist-atheist nutters, both go to the barricades when the 4000BC beginning of history story is challenged.

Enkidu

Sad, in fact tragic, but we will probably never know much at all about the true history of the human race. I bet the truth is vastly more interesting than the "Great-Wall-of-History, 4000 BC," story that we are taught. It's funny how the religious nutters, and the materialist-atheist nutters, both go to the barricades when the 4000BC beginning of history story is challenged.

Enkidu

Considering that Jericho has been occupied since about 10,000 B.C. Seems that Jericho was around 6000 years before time began .

This sounds like multicult drivel to knock the white race down to that of a pygmy eating worms and living in nest of leaves in Africa, afraid of ghosts and witchcraft. Oh, it's all the same, you see, leaves make a very nice comfy bed and grubs are a very fine food. Lots of Americans (on the downward spiral) believe in ghosts and witchcraft nowadays. People think they like to "get back to civilization" after a few days without it, but that is just a mental construct!!!

This sounds like multicult drivel to knock the white race down to that of a pygmy eating worms and living in nest of leaves in Africa, afraid of ghosts and witchcraft. Oh, it's all the same, you see, leaves make a very nice comfy bed and grubs are a very fine food. Lots of Americans (on the downward spiral) believe in ghosts and witchcraft nowadays. People think they like to "get back to civilization" after a few days without it, but that is just a mental construct!!!

I think you're on the wrong thread Abzug.

Considering that Jericho has been occupied since about 10,000 B.C. Seems that Jericho was around 6000 years before time began .

Yes! For people like that I like to show my favorite 15,000 year old Lascaux cave painting. We get stuck with clowns like Warhol and Picasso but the Ice Age French had this:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g112/frank89k/CaveLascaux.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g112/frank89k/?)
This is what our non-grub-eating ancestors were up to in about 13,000 BC.

I think you're on the wrong thread Abzug.

Oh? I thought he said this:

"The evolutionist historical perspective studies the history of mankind by dividing it up into several periods, just as it does with the supposed course of evolution itself. Such fictitious concepts as the Stone Age, Bronze Age and Iron Age are an important part of the evolutionist chronology. Since this imaginary picture is presented in schools and in television and newspaper stories, most people accept this imaginary picture without question and imagine that human beings once lived in an era when only primitive stone tools were used and technology was unknown.

Yet when archaeological findings and scientific facts are examined, a very different picture emerges. The traces and remains that have come down to the present—the tools, needles, flute fragments, personal adornments and decorations—show that in cultural and social terms, humans have always lived civilized lives in all periods of history."

I learned in school that in primitive societies a ten year old can do any job needed to be done in his culture. He may not do it that great, but he can do it.

Glorifying the flutes and stones of savages is multicult.

I understand the temptation of the intuitive, Vedic account of civilization being much older than 4K or so years, but what have we to base it on?

The Hidden History of the Human Race, Michael A. Cremo and Richard L. Thompson is especially useful. It's a condensed version of Forbidden Archeology.

Has history on the other side of Enkidu's "Great Wall of History" actually been covered up?

This is the question that, as Arthur C. Clarke once put it, separates the buffs from the cranks. If people just don't know, or feel the artifacts just don't add up to past civilizations, no problem. No one will ever rock your boat.

Years ago I wrote an exposition of why I came to the conclusion there is an active historical cover-up going on and I have a temptation to put it online, but there's this one problem. The problem is WNs are marginalized as it is and there's always somebody screaching "conspiracy theorist". Another problem is the older I get the less patience I have for flat-earthers.

But skipping the long version, I worked on the lakes for years, lots of years. I made steel, trucks, shipped ore, even shoveled coal (a good job to have in the winter of 1978, coincidentally). Anyway I know this region was inhabited by a high culture many centuries ago. Kennewick Man didn't surprise me because I saw lots of his handiwork before they ever found the body. They were white and they were here and they built really big stuff, some of which was a lot more complex than anything we've put here since. I know for absolute fact that a couple of well-known researchers who looked into Ohio's Great Hopewell Road know this as well as I do. And they just shrug and say the Ancient Indians were really energetic.

There! That one paragraph will get me tossed into the tinfoil hat squad even if I accompany it with over 30 years of evidence, trust me. The Welshman Barry Fell was nearly sued by the Canuck authorities for making parts of what he found in Ontario public. (He just got out of Dodge and let the Canadians stew. His findings, in part, are in his book Bronze Age America. Some of the lesser parts are in his collection America B.C.)

This subject is poison. I intend to publish my stuff anyway, but the wife keeps saying, "Leave it in your will. Wait till you're dead." That's the trouble with a good woman, dammit. They can be hard-headed, but a lot of times they're right.

Glorifying the flutes and stones of savages is multicult.

These flutes and cut stones are not savage. No one's glorifying them, they're evidence. Here on earth, playing flutes and working rock are signs of human enterprise and achievement.

The north American Indians and the Maoris are but two of the races that were in the Stone Age upon contact with Europeans. They were Stone Age because they used stones as tools and weapons; metal was unknown. They did have totem poles, clothes and other 'amenities'.

Civilisation is an arbitrary set of criteria one must possess before being considered civilised. The Sumerians were the first to pass that mark.

The metal ages are considered important because the progression to a harder, sharper form of metal meant dominance for whoever possessed it. Bronze Agers were conquered by Iron Agers. Iron Agers were conquered by Steel Agers. Steel Agers then invented the Computer Age and then let the Turd World have it for free...

Has anyone heard of Catal Huyuk? Last I knew, the first layer of this ancient civilized metropolis was dated somewhere around 6,500 BCE. It's situated somewhere along the Great Salt Depresssion in central Turkey. The site is located on the Lower Road of the ancient trade route the Royal Road. From the many artifacts found, it was apparently a metal-working, specialized craft, and trade center for surrounding areas. Jericho was merely a trading post and armed village at this time. It's one of those that I never got around to researching more extensively. It came to mind at mention of the Sumerians.

There has been political stonewalling around Kennewick Man and the Tocharian mummies, and that is very suspicious, but can you go into detail about what you've seen with your own eyes and why you think Whites built it?

Yes. But I'll wait till the weekend so it don't come off as a rush job. :D

Has anyone heard of Catal Huyuk?

Yes there's a very interesting (actually fairly new) book out on it:

The Goddess and the Bull:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743243609/sr=8-1/qid=1150308660/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-6134067-8871231?%5Fencoding=UTF8


I haven't read it but it sure looks good. Because I'm a cheap white man I just read all the amazon.com reviews and the "look inside" stuff there. You know, it feels like I read the whole book from all that...

Thanks, Franz Joseph. I have always been intrigued with the ancient trade routes. Most people have no idea just how extensive and far back into history civilization goes. The Amber Road (Way) particularly interests me. Extending overland from the Baltic Sea southward to join with the Royal Road, on to Silk Road, et al. Amber itself is intriguing. The gold of the North. I understand that King Tut had amber pendants buried with him, or should I say entombed. There are amber pendants that have been found dating to some 12,000 BCE, which speaks of a northern culture at least more advanced than wooden clubs. The Amber Road, though stopping at the coast, continued its trade route northward via sailing ships. If I recall correctly, it also branched wesward toward the British Isles. I often tell myself that one of these days I am going to attempt a cohesive timeline of metropolises and trade routes from 3000 BCE going backwards in time where such evidence has been unearthed. I just never seem to find time to sit down and apply myself to the task.

Interesting thread. I always found this sort of thing fascinating, with mainstream history disregarding evidence that some things from ancient times don't fit in with the mainstream view of it.

Well there was never a stone age for the abos in Australia... they never advanced to that stage.... when white man (Homo sapiens) came to Australia, the abos were still naked, running after kangaroos with sharpened sticks, without any kind of houses... sleeping out in the bush.

Lasceaux caves... Luxury!

In case you were wondering, the Stone Age began several million years ago.

In case you were wondering, the Stone Age began several million years ago.

That's the whole bone of contention. Rock Age designations are arbitrary and possibly meaningless if Cremo (et al.) are right.

An example of how meaningless these classifications might be consider the granddaddy of all brain teasers, the Great Pyramid itself. Officially, the GP was made in the late neolithic, early BA to be generous. What were among the first things Rudolf Gantenbrinck's robot found in the north shaft? Iron rods and fixtures.

Given that, "Stone Age" and even "Bronze Age" are completely meaningless constructions.

One more thing, this is just an observation, not the opening salvo in a flame war. This thread is not getting redirected.

Why not? ... we could kick those little Phorafag's asses. :D

"Captain, the readings on the pretentiousness meter are climbing rapidly! Oh, we're encountering a phoramite. Nevermind."

One more thing, this is just an observation, not the opening salvo in a flame war. This thread is not getting redirected.

The Phora, it was that site's owner who got on that Alternate History forum to spread lies about both Stormfront and VNN, only to give them the link to his own shitty little forum.

How did he know there was a post about the Alternate History forum here? He was reading threads on VNN without posting, then running over there posting with the anti-Whites. What a fag.

Examples of lies: he wrote that both sites were sick Nazi sites, basically, but Stormfront had gotten rid of some of the worst trash. And here's the kicker: Stormfront allows more debate than the evil VNN forum.

And of course they believed it. That's what they are programmed to believe. He knew that and wanted to capitalize on it. Maybe there was a chance to get just one guy more to join his forum!

What a sicko.

Ah, yes.
Fade the Butcher is back.

Some intriguing history here, for sure. The Takla Makan/Gobi desert is considered to be the largest in the world. The ancient Silk Road branches at the desert, one following the northern perimeter, one following the southern perimeter. Literally translated, Takla Makan means something comparable to "if you enter, you will not return". Takla Makan is located in the Tarim Basin, this being the largest basin in the world. The surrounding mountains have an elevation of some 9,000 feet above sea level. The desert is some 1000 to 3000 feet above sea level. The Tarim Basin is roughly 500 feet below sea level. Just a little scene setting. At one time, there was a great lake located in the basin, long since dried up ( the freshwater lake existed prior to 2345 BCE). There are those who say that this was once a "cradle of civilization" prior to 2345 BCE. The Basin is presently a salt basin with a few oasises here and there around its perimeter. The Yuezhi, a branch of the Tocharians, went westward to establish the great Kushan Empire. The Tocharians are related linguistically to the Scythians. These are all considered to be Indo-European (blonde hair/red hair-blue eyes/green eyes). Co-existing with the Yuezhi/Tocharian in from what now is known as Gansu, were a people referred to as Xiongnu, believed to be the ancestors of the mongols. These two diverse groups occupied the area from the Black Sea to the Ural Sea. There will be a little jumping around here, but it is all relevant. The Altai mountains were considered as a sacred place by the Scythians. In the Ukok Plateau is where the "Ice Maiden" was discovered. The ice maiden was roughly 5'6" tall with blonde hair. To identify the remains, the mummy was turned over to a forensics specialist who did work for the Moscow police and the KGB. Her findings were that the ice maiden was definitely of the caucasian race with no mongol features. Other graves were found containing remains of other caucasians. Some more jumping around. The closest relatives-linguistically-of the Tocharian language being celtic and early germanic. Back to Tocharians. Somewhere in the mixture of names for culture/people, the Dayuan (Ta-yuan/Dawan) come in. Also of Indo-European features. What all these had in common besides language and physical features is that all were superb horsemen, archers, fierce warriors both male and female, and an ancient legend of their origin. A place referred to as Barguzin Tukum is considered to be the legendary home of the Tocharians. Interesting to note is that there is a present day city called Ust Barguzin on the shores of Lake Baikal where the Angara River flows into the lake. Before I go on forever in a single post, I am taking a break.

Shirt: The Takla Makan/Gobi desert is considered to be the largest in the world.

According to this chart http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778851.html (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778851.html)the combined area of the Taklamakan and Gobi deserts combined is only 605,000 square miles in area, whereas the Sahara Desert is 3,500,000 square miles, making it six times larger in area than the Taklamakan/Gobi desert. Even the Arabian Desert is almost twice as large as the Taklamakan/Gobi desert, as well as Australia's four deserts, which, combined, are almost as large as the Taklamakan/Gobi Desert.

Not trying to play Alex Trebek's "Jeopardy" here, but I do like to get the facts straight.

Shirt: The Takla Makan/Gobi desert is considered to be the largest in the world.

According to this chart http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778851.html (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778851.html)the combined area of the Taklamakan and Gobi deserts combined is only 605,000 square miles in area, whereas the Sahara Desert is 3,500,000 square miles, making it six times larger in area than the Taklamakan/Gobi desert. Even the Arabian Desert is almost twice as large as the Taklamakan/Gobi desert, as well as Australia's four deserts, which, combined, are almost as large as the Taklamakan/Gobi Desert.

Not trying to play Alex Trebek's "Jeopardy" here, but I do like to get the facts straight.

No problem. It has been awhile since I have done any research in this area. For some reason I had included this statement in my notes. I would have to go back through to find where I found this. In the meantime, thanks for correcting this oversight.

Here is a link providing more information on the siberian ice maiden. An interesting side note is that the buryat mongols also claim Barguzin Tukum as their ancient homeland. Blue Wolf and his consort Red Deer being the "mentors" of the ancestors. It is believed by many that the mongols adapted these beliefs from the Tocharians.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2517siberian.html

Why not? ... we could kick those little Phorafag's asses. :D

We accept the challenge.

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/1966/phora15pd.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/8472/vnn10bn.jpg

^^ That's about right. The Phora is already twice as active as VNN Forum. Hmm. Maybe you guys should redouble your TAA efforts.

If you are here to start a forum to forum flame war, Daedalus, you need to start a thread in the Nutzpah. Otherwise contribute some information/perspective relevant to this thread. Under the thread heading a broad range of topics can be discussed. I do not think your contribution is one of them. I am sure you know the rules as well as, if not better than, most of the posters to VNN.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g112/frank89k/3a0b9ecb.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g112/frank89k/?)
Copper "Oxhydes" similar to the ones we dug up.

When I was 23 I got to work for the coal & ore handling division of the old U.S.Steel. I'd been in administration right before I got out of the navy so I wanted something as far away from an office as I could get.

The 70s were great on the Lakes, I'm not kidding. This is the era when the Edmund Fitzgerald sank, arctic winters had people predicting a new ice age, the works. The old dudes I worked with had been in steel since the 30s and had been in the big strike of 1958. What they hadn't seen and didn't know wasn't worth seeing or knowing.

In the Bronze Age copper ingots were poured into molds shaped like oxhides. Sometimes they're called "oxhydes" by people in the business so you know they mean ingots, not an animal skins. First one I saw was in the winter of 1974 when a coal belt broke because of it; somehow the oxhyde got into a coal car when it was shipped. I was lucky an old timer was with me that night because it looked like a really screwed up hunk of scrap to me, nothing unusual.

A copper oxhyde from the Bronze Age looks just like they do in the photo up top. They are about 14 inches across and no more than a yard long. Before it was over I saw dozens of them and never did I see one more than an inch thick.

The old guy I was working with told me to send it right back to the furnace and never say a word about them to anyone else. He had no clue why exactly, but whenever one of these got to the office a whole lot of attention (the kind corporations don't like) starts happening and so we keep this out of the limelight. This gets "the low profile treatment" he told me (Nixon was getting run out of office at the time.)

I kept that in mind but did some research, the kind that ran into some money back in the pre-Internet days. What I found out early was oxhydes were peculiar to Europe and the Mediterranian cultures; a stack of them were tested in Lebanon one year and are known to have been shipped either by Mycenae or Egypt before the 12th Century BC.

Straight south of me is Ohio's mound region and the Hopewell road area; I've found several oxhydes and 3 war axe heads, probably Minoan in origin (more about Minos below). I had a lot of objections to these being mined by Europeans when I first started. I wasn't a liberal but I knew the local "Indian" population used plenty of copper. The fact that this was copper country was known by enough people that they wanted a copper hawk (found near the Great Serpent Mound) to be on a revised Ohio state flag.

This is the copper hawk they meant:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g112/frank89k/65c2efe9.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g112/frank89k/?)

The problem is that the Royal Falcon is not too common among natives in North America, but it's been rife in the Mediterranian area since the very beginning ("Stone Age" if you want to be ironic for the moment; the Horus Hawk was the symbol of the king of Egypt since prehistory.) That plus the fact no one can date this Ohio bird or fit it into any culture that ever lived here has caused some debate among experts who won't touch the European hypothesis.

I got out of US Steel in '78 to start a business and I sold five oxhydes as antiques over the next couple years. You get no attention whatsoever if you tell them they're Mediterranian or European (they poured tin into oxhyde molds too). Since I figured that's where they were headed for, I couldn't attract much attention and I didn't.

Not till later did I read Barry Fell's Bronze Age America, then other works which fleshed out the story further, that told me what I didn't know when I was busy either at steel plants or in business.

The dates for the copper that left the Great Lakes area falls into late Third Millenium (2300 BC) to slightly into our era (AD 600) with the last activity considered minimal. Maybe the Romans opened the pits for a small period of time. The amout of copper removed duing the Bronze Age itself (17-12th Century BC) was gigantic, millions of tons are known to have been taken from Michigan's Upper Peninsula and Isle Royale in Ontario to Europe and the Mediterranian.

The most accurate and readable author on this subject (no shit) is Frank Joseph, who started popularizing the subject with the book Atlantis in Wisconsin. Sounds a gag book, but Joseph uses very good sources and has a lot of pertinent information in a good, readable format. (For those of you who aren't aware of Joseph's previous career: He was earlier known as Frank Collins, neo-nazi, who led the March on Skokie in the late 1970s.)

The best place to find oxhydes and Minoan axe heads (from my experience anyway) is around the Hopewell Road and Mound City areas in Ohio, and the Keneesaw Peninsula or the Huron Mountains in Michigan. A friend with a full set of scuba gear who dives the lakes has brought back more substantial stuff, dating to mid-16th Century BC and clearly marked with the culture of origin. This remains a subject of controversy but there's a work available that clears up most of it.

Bronze Age kingdoms didn't just order their navies to go hither and yon to find copper and tin, these routes were established long ago. Barry Fell, mentioned earlier, was able to accurately date an arrangement with a northern kingdom for copper to around the 17th Century BC. Fell's book contains lots of information on what I guess we have to call the "proto-norsemen" who had that trade route for around 4-5 centuries.

The others are a matter of record too. You can see the "chevron" marker for the Egyptian navy all over this area (two horizontal zig-zag lines, which is the Egyptian letter "n") but the very best is the Minoan connection.

It's another man's story. Roger Jewell worked for the US Forest service for a lot of years, seems to have made finds similar to my own, but he was able to lock down the Minoan activity in Michigan with great accuracy along with interpreting evidence that points to Minoans that looks almost beyond dispute.

Jewell's site is named after the title of his book, Ancient Mines of Kitchi-Gummi: http://jewellhistories.com/ancient_mines.htm

Okay, I've gone on too long as is, but for an interesting intro to this subject, James Bailey's books Sailing to Paradise and Titans and Sea Kings are highly recommended. Bailey, like Barry Fell, was too big a gun to be ignored by the major publishers which is why they got to print. The people who know the most about this subject, you will not be surprised to know, are buffs. Jewell is a retired forrester who self-published his book, Frank Joseph remains a bit disreputable over the Skokie thing, and others are in about the same boat.

One buff, another retired guy named James Grimes, wrote and self-published a kid's book called The Incredible Bronze Age Journey. There's a catch: Grimes loads the book from start to finish with impeccable references for anyone who thinks he made anything up. Grimes' book is a surprisingly detailed fiction concerning how the 15th Century BC Minoans made connections and got the copper back to the Med. His references amount to a course in Bronze Age Trans-Atlantic History.

They were white and they were here. There's plenty of information to get anyone started who thinks they weren't. And I kept one of my axe heads for... uh, decoration.

Amazing post FJ,

You really need to retire so you can do this full time. When I first started reading Frank Joseph's articles, I wondered a bit, if he might be you.

Enkidu

Not till later did I read Barry Fell's Bronze Age America, then other works which fleshed out the story further, that told me what I didn't know when I was busy either at steel plants or in business.

Years ago, I read a Berry Fell Book. I don't think it was this one. At my job, I mentioned a few things to the people I worked with. Their reaction was strange, even shocking to me. There was a little bit of mocking, but mostly they became angry--really angry. They weren't Indians (Native American) or even particularly sympathetic to Indian concerns. They weren't even liberal, but they sure got angry.

People really don't like to have the standard story threatened.

Enkidu

In 2005, genetic research was performed on the Taklamakan mummies. It was determined that the mummies were caucasian and even more importantly that they preceded the east asians in the area by at least 1000 years. It was also determined that the uighurs and the kazaks are mixtures of caucasian and east asian.

http://www.dawn.com/2005/04/22/int14.htm

Of further interest is Pamela Logan's Asian Adventure page. She graduated with a professional degree in aerospace science from Stanford and ended up in the Taklamakan desert locating ancient civilizations that have been buried under the ever shifting sands and "sensed" by satellite. Start with "Detailed Project Proposal and Eurasian Origins Foundation Prospectus". Link provided so that you can explore her site at your leisure.

http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~pamlogan/silkroad/

Thanks fellas. I actually have a timetable to turn all my projects into a full time job. Question is when. My stocks are all in the toilet. I've been doing damage control all day, no dice.

Years ago, I read a Berry Fell Book. I don't think it was this one. At my job, I mentioned a few things to the people I worked with. Their reaction was strange, even shocking to me... People really don't like to have the standard story threatened.

I probably should have mentioned, before it was over, how much they really hated Fell. He was a Welshman who did not suffer fools gladly but he was uncommonly sharp, he was all over this country several times and deciphering things no one else could come close to tackling. One of his major discoveries was that there was a strain of Polynesian in parts of Asia Minor in the old days and it accounts for some of the inscrutable writings and markings you find in the Eastern Woodlands. Celician pirates spoke a language in part related to Hawaiian.

Fell's one book, America B.C. came out in a revised edition in 1992, the 500th anniversary of Columbus's trip. Fell had nothing against Columbus but he knew there were plenty of people who made the trip first. Made Fell plenty of enemies. I don't know if some of the really nasty stuff about him is online, but he was called nuts in any number of mainstream magazines back then. They never refuted his findings, they just called him loony.

Fell is now dead. How'd that old joke go? I hope they buried him upside down so his critics could kiss his... it rhymes somehow but I forget how.

How do you think they knew the copper was there? There was so much risk, so much expense to undertake these trans-global expeditions, were they just taking shots in the dark all over N America, or did they perhaps have a technology for locating huge deposits of copper?

From Atlantis in Wisconsin, p. 7 (cited because Frank Joseph, the author, is using references only specialists can get their hands on):

...The genius of these third-millenium-B.C. miners extended to their unknown but highly accurate methods for locating copper veins. Every historic Lake Superior mine opened over the last two hundred years was previously worked by the Ancients, who mined all the productive veins throughout the region. DuTemple writes: "As some of these veins do not out-crop at the surface, but were discovered only upon excavation, it is seen that these prehistoric peoples posssessed a gift or ability that present day man would find very valuable..."

The part in bold always gets me. It checks against a dozen other sources: Nobody in the modern era has found any substantial source of copper in this region. It was all discovered and developed three to four thousand years ago. We re-opened veins that had already been worked.

James Bailey notes some peculiarities of the copper in the Great Lake region that makes it highly exploitable. This isn't the only region in the world that carries this question mark. Bailey spends time dealing Brazil which has some interesting... well, historical peculiarities like we do here.

Bronze Age buff Tom Slattery speculated that the importance of ore from that ancient era is embedded in modern languages, but you have to go back at least two steps earlier than academic etymology usually allows. For instance, "tin" could have derived from the earlier Egyptian word "dn" and might even be exact since in the Egyptian language "d" and "t" are generally interchangeable.

Slattery also notes that the modern English word "ore" comes from the Indo-European word "ar"; hence "Aryan" might literally have meant "Ore-man" at one time. Since a successful "Ore-man" would have been able to write his own ticket, the later meaning "nobleman" would have derived from the earlier job description. Slattery admits he's speculating but I find it plausible. Just consider how much power having a lock on a valuable commodity is now and it's not an untenable derivation at all.

How did they know where the copper was? I can guess, but that's all I can do. I stayed away from "pyramidology" despite developing a great curiousity about Egypt. One thing I do know, just from general handbooks, is that the Great Pyramid's dimensions are scaled to dimensions of the Northern Hemisphere. How did they know that? Whoever made the GP had to have plenty of information, perhaps from extremely ancient sources, older than mining on the lakes even, to have known those dimensions.

Just to show how circular all this gets, here's an curiosity that drove me up the wall first time I heard it: Cahokia's "Monk's Mound" (a damaged old pyramid, actually) in Illinois is built on a far, far older site than the Indian city that thrived there around the time of Columbus. It's proximity to Copper Country is clear and and it sits on a base of 13 acres. The Aztec "pyramid of the moon" sits on an ancient site too, and has clear proximity to the metal regions known to have been in Brazil, Peru and points south. The ground the Aztecs redeveloped might have been the hub of ore shipping in the Bronze Age. The Aztec pyramid has a 13 acre base. The distribution center in the Mediterranian area of course was near the GP itself which also has a 13 acre base.

Did the same culture build them all? Were the design specifications for these "monuments" more practical and functional than we've supposed?

All the indigenous cultures of these ore-rich areas have legends of "white gods" who built civilizations, created codes of law, then split, often promising to return. White ore-men would answer that question if we can collect more evidence, nail down some harder dates. But not as long as our culture remains hostile to the very idea of whites having built earlier and great civilizations here.

Think of the fight over Kennewick Man and the treatment Barry Fell got from his "fellow scholars" as reference points.

Years ago, I read a Berry Fell Book. I don't think it was this one. At my job, I mentioned a few things to the people I worked with. Their reaction was strange, even shocking to me. There was a little bit of mocking, but mostly they became angry--really angry. They weren't Indians (Native American) or even particularly sympathetic to Indian concerns. They weren't even liberal, but they sure got angry.

People really don't like to have the standard story threatened.

Enkidu

Yeah, I've gotten the same reaction when mentioning the tocharians.

basically, the attitude is, 'how dare you suggest horrible, racist, Whites gave non-whites thier culture & technology, instead of the other way around.

And how dare you question the established fact that these are the eternal homelands of the colored peoples and that we have absolutely no right to be here.'

yep, theres a good deal o White folks that don't deserve to go on breathing.

[QUOTE]What all these had in common besides language and physical features is that all were superb horsemen, archers, fierce warriors both male and female, and an ancient legend of their origin.[QUOTE]


I don't buy into this there were feirce female warroirs in anceint times nonsense. No woman could really be strong enough to fight men in battle in the real world, only in jewish Hollywood movie fantasyland. This idea is just being promoted to support the modern day feminist and godess worship craze, it's just regurgitated jewish feminism wraped up in a new package.

I don't buy into this there were feirce female warroirs in anceint times nonesense...

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater over femi-ZOGS.

Germanic women fought along side their men when they were taking on the Romans, and Rome didn't lie about it. You can read their accounts.

The women were support not infantry from what I can tell. This is how come you see Diana the Huntress with a bow. Female archers shooting from the trees would make excellent support for their menfolk.

American pioneer women did the same sort of thing. This is not feminism. This is more about when the tribe has to get all hands in battle or not survive at all. (Hint -- This sort of thing might be coming round again.)

Despite the help of the womenfolk shooting arrows, Julius Caesar managed to slaughter an entire nation of white folk so it didn't always work. But fuck it. They tried anyway.

Has anyone heard of Catal Huyuk? Last I knew, the first layer of this ancient civilized metropolis was dated somewhere around 6,500 BCE. It's situated somewhere along the Great Salt Depresssion in central Turkey. The site is located on the Lower Road of the ancient trade route the Royal Road. From the many artifacts found, it was apparently a metal-working, specialized craft, and trade center for surrounding areas. Jericho was merely a trading post and armed village at this time. It's one of those that I never got around to researching more extensively. It came to mind at mention of the Sumerians.

http://www.catalhoyuk.com/history.html
The site didn't mention any metal working, but it is impressive nonetheless