Talking Points for the White Revolution

by Douglas Wright

11 April 2004

Since becoming racially conscious, I've spent a lot of time back-and-forthing with the unaware on race (and as my understanding grew, Jews), sharpening my position and deploying my learning against their attacks. Their responses, both in person and on Internet chat boards, fall into several predictable categories. Most are faithful recitations of what our culture has programmed them to say, as if they're droning in a half-drugged state on North Korean television. But I think they're a good measure of what America thinks about race, understanding that is a good starting point.

On Jews, for instance, I have been told that "America was founded on Jewish ideals," "Jews play nice," and that "Jews have the only democracy in the Middle East." Blacks and Hispanics are not quite as revered, but you will encounter lots of people who are convinced that Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice represent the "average" black person, and that if it weren't for the negative influence of gangsta rap, every other black person would achieve the same thing.

What becomes clear during the debates is what mindsets we must overcome. Some white racial activists have likened these mindsets to blockages that need dissolving, Drano-style, before we can reassert ourselves as a people. I think the comparison is apt. VNN and, hopefully, essays like this one are the Drano. Feel free to pour liberally, diluting as you see fit. Don't get too mad when debating. Think about how far outside we are. Also, ask yourself: Do you really want to change minds on race, or do you just want to show how clever you are or vent your spleen? Are people more apt to be convinced by a raving lunatic or by someone who speaks calmly and factually? Sometimes, raving is great, but remember your audience.

The mindsets to be dissolved are as follows.

On race:

* There are no biological or inherited differences between the races. Race is just a skin color. Really, there is no such thing as group difference, or even groups, for that matter.

* We are all individuals, and should be judged, always and everywhere, as such.

* Even if there are slight group differences, they don't have any social, cultural or political consequences. A multiracial society will work as well as a monoracial one, and once it's up and running, is actually better.

* All it will take for the multiracial society to work is time, effort, and changes of mind.

* What group racial differences we do see are attributable to (for conservatives) the cultural failure of blacks themselves or white welfare and (for liberals) white racism and the legacy of slavery.

On Jews:

* Jews are a righteous and persecuted religious (not a racial or ethnic) group that has achieved wealth in America because of its smarts.

* Jews are entitled to do whatever is necessary to secure Israel. America and Israel stand shoulder-to-shoulder in the war on terror -- our problems are their problems.

* Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. It is a Western-style, capitalist nation that has produced lots of great technology, and treats its citizens equally and fairly.

* We are bound to support and protect Jews because the Bible says they are the "chosen people."

* There is no "Jewish conspiracy" for any purpose. Jews are individuals and we must judge them not as a group, but one at a time (see race above).

* Jews might tend to be a little more liberal, which is too bad, but that has nothing to do with their Jewishness -- it's just a personal choice. Besides, look at all the smart Jewish conservatives.

On Whites:

* Whites don't exist. What does a Swede have in common with a Greek?

* Not only is the "white race" a racist construct, but there is no "white culture." If there is "white culture," it's NASCAR and other stupid redneck things.

* Whites are dumb. Whites live in trailer parks. "White trash" is funny.

* Whites are uniquely evil. Hitler, the Nazis and the Klan were manifestations of the absolute worst in human evil. No other human group is capable of evil at all, much less on the horrific scale of whites. All other groups that defend themselves do so for good reasons.

* Whites are "boring." They need to be spiced up by Latin culture and loosened up by black culture. Jews, meanwhile, can teach them about morality.

OK. That's a lot to work with, but I think they boil down to one overarching theme: the unreality of the group. People just don't want to believe in groups. I think this is so for several reasons, most of them emotional and not logical. Everyone wants to think of the world as an aggregate of individuals because, hey, he is one. Why shouldn't YOU be the standard social unit? Groups dilute the importance of the individual. One good way to point out the reality of the group is by anecdote. Show how often blacks, for instance, identify as part of the "black group," same for Hispanics. Ask, if "Jews" are not a group, who's behind Israel? A bunch of individuals who all just happen to be Jewish? What are the chances of that? If everyone else gets a "group," why don't white people? Acknowledge that individuality is a value, but one that works best in a more homogenous setting.

Bone up on the science of racial differences. Stress the Bell Curve point that intelligence is hereditary, to a large extent, and can only be marginally influenced by environment. Know your IQ stats, know your crime stats, download AR's "Color of Crime." Know Richard Lynn's work. For a breezy but technically solid recent treatment, check out the book Race: The Reality of Human Differences, by Vincent Sarich and Frank Miele. This book is good for making the point that racial differences are an evolutionary phenomenon. Have a handy definition of race: a human group that evolved in geographic isolation for thousands and thousands of years and adapted to its particular environment in such a way as to make it incompatible for social co-existence with other races. Offering that "niggers are stupid" may not be the best approach right off the bat.

This can segue to Jews. Start neutrally, by offering that Jews are a distinct group that looks out for itself. This is not difficult for most to believe (as opposed to, Jews are evil and seek to destroy whites). Of course, know Kevin MacDonald and his work, and adapt it to your arguments. On Hispanics, check out AR's "Myth of Hispanic Family Values" article for good factual refutation of the point that Hispanics are wonderful additions to America.

One thing people are hep to is the double standard for blacks and whites, i.e., if a black says something "racist," nobody cares, but if a white does, all hell breaks loose. Work with this, but don't affirm here too much -- we LIKE double standards, after all. Same for the affirmative action arguments. If an opponent of affirmative action rests on racial equality, work around. Use affirmative action only to show that it hurts whites and that groups are real. Stress that races are distinct biological groups that can't be made to get along by mind control or legal force. Stress that people naturally prefer the company of their own race, and that this is not a bad thing any more than it's "bad" for a mother to prefer her children.

"Incompatability" is a great point, because it takes the heat off racial difference resistance. Races just don't get along. Why not admit this and move on? Make your opponent look like the close-minded stick-in-the-mud. YOU are the progressive, the realist, the justice-seeker.

I think we need to position ourselves as the true conservatives. If anyone disagrees with you on race, call them a neocon, a Marxist, a liberal, a left-wing multiculturalist, etc. Attack them for hating whites. Call them fake conservatives.

Disappointingly, self-described conservatives are virtually identical to self-described liberals on all these issues. For a sample of what we encounter, here's a real response from "ConservativeUnderground.com," a mainstream conservative site (unedited):

Dont think for a second that my dislike of illegal immigration means I have the slightest bit of admiration or support for your particular type of hate. My future daughter in law is a beautiful young black girl and Ill gladly welcome her into my white anglo saxon etc family. Shes bright, witty, warm and an incredibly talented artist. She can draw, paint, sculpt and composes music. My life will be much fuller and richer thanks to her. I cant imagine why someone, like you, would willingly cut yourself off from that just to feed your need to feel superior to someone else. Well, maybe the hate and intolerance is fed by it too...funny how much you really have in common with those losers over at The Zoo (DUh). I hadnt really thought about it before but I think I pity you.

Alright. Some common jabs, and some responses you can use, if they apply:

Jab: Do you even know any black people?

Counterjab: I've had plenty of experience with black people. Would you like to hear about it?

Jab: I pity you. You just want to close yourself off from humanity.

Counterjab: Save your pity. You just want to force me to associate with those I don't want to associate with. I'm not "closing myself off" from anything good. By opening myself up to Tyrone in his do-rag, I'm doing something good? I want to open myself up to my own people, but I can't. Who's going to decide who I associate with and who I don't? If you make the decision for me, how is that different from socialism?

Jab: You must have a lot of fear and hate inside you.

Counterjab: Yes, I fear, like I fear real threats. And I hate, like I hate that which wants me destroyed. Don't you? My "hate and fear" are just healthy defensive responses.

Jab: You can't generalize.

Counterjab: The hell you can't. We do it all the time. Life is all about generalizing. Scientists generalize. That's how they work. It's necessary. It's how we think, how we arrange our thoughts and make sense of our world.


Jab: We're all individuals.

Counterjab: Yes, but we are also members of groups, and that's important.

Jab: Race is just skin color.

Counterjab: No, race is genetic, and has implications across the spectrum of human experience.

Jab: Why do you need to feel superior?

Counterjab: When did I say that? I want to live with my own kind. I want whites to direct their own destiny as people. How does that make me "superior"? Even if it does, am I wrong? Why do you want to feel inferior?

Jab: What you want will never happen.

Counterjab: Never say never. Besides, what choice do whites have? Let things run their current course and become extinct?

Jab: Whites aren't going to become extinct.

Counterjab: The projections say otherwise. Besides, if we're still around, why shouldn't we be in charge of our own lives, as a people?

Jab: Why don't you leave? Move to Iceland?

Counterjab: I was thinking the same thing for you. I live here. This is what I seek. Why don't YOU move?

Jab: Diversity makes us all better.

Counterjab: No, "diversity" is a lie cooked up to shake down whites and enrich non-whites.

This is far from a complete list. But the important thing is to get out there and practice.

Good stuff. I like the Jesuit idea of meeting them where they live, so that you can lead them back to the truth. If one's prospecting for open minds and potential recruits, then don't get angry, just be persistent. Show them by your example as well as your facts and evidence, that you have more than they do. Your view has more to offer. Our stuff is deeply shocking because it is true.

Ask them questions. Plant seeds of doubt. "I know people say that, I've just happened to notice X, Y, and Z that don't conform."

"It seems to me that only things that are weak can't be questioned."

Use parallel arguments: social security is such a great idea that participation is...involuntary.

Diversity is such a great idea that questioning it is a hate crime.

The post office isn't a government agency, it's "privatized." Yet it retains a monopoly on first-class mail delivery.

Why wouldn't the government that lies about everything else lie about race and diversity?

In general Whites respond to claims of unfairness and double standards. Why is it ok for jews to be individuals and members of groups but "hate" for whites?

How can it be that whites are simultaneously the one group forbidden to think of itself as a group, yet the one group discriminated against by law? And the one group routinely mocked in the media?

Edgar J. Steele has written a good article on the "attitude" that WNs should think about taking as well. I hope you don't mind Alex, but I feel it would complement these posts.

http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/columns/talk4.htm

Treading Water IV

by Edgar J. Steele



April 10, 2004

(Part four of a four-part serialization of Chapter 15 from* "In Defense of Racism," a book to be released later this year.)

Many complain that the leaflets, booklets and screeds that those in "The Movement" pass out serve only to polarize opposition from those whom we seek to awaken.* Because there is such obvious merit to these concerns, we must be particularly mindful of our target audience and tailor our presentations appropriately.* This goes back to what I said earlier concerning sales theory and the development of prospects.* Push too hard and you lose them; indeed, you may create a voice to be added to the chorus of the opposition.* Push too softly and you produce few, if any, results.

Imagine simply handing someone a pamphlet which blames all the ills of Western Civilization upon the Jewish race (not far off the mark, just between you and me, by the way).* The typical unwashed reaction will be to reject both you and the meritorious points which might therein be contained.* While our intent is laudable, we ignore the effect we have upon others by demanding that they see things from our perspective.* That is inefficient, ungraceful and scarcely facilitates our objective of awakening them.* It isn't even an inelegant solution.* At best, it simply is no solution.* At worst, it becomes part of the problem.

Wearing Nazi regalia, sporting a buzz haircut and/or displaying tattoos often has the same effect of "backing up" those we hope to influence positively.* We become our own worst enemy in such a situation, because the White Race would have been better off had we stayed home and watched Saturday morning cartoons.

Just as the war against free speech now is shifting its focus from the intent of the speaker to the effect upon the listener, so do we need to shift our focus.* Results, don't forget - that's what it's all about.**

If you disagree with me so far, then I submit that you simply are after results different from awakening others.* In fact, you are bent upon self destruction.* If you still disagree with me, then look around yourself and ask what results "The Movement" has to show for its efforts in recent years.* If you still disagree with me, please mark this page, set this book down and go do something else for a while.* Come back after you have perked on things a bit more.

Often, adroitly using an opponent's weight and movements against himself will procure the best results, just as taught in oriental fighting disciplines.* Witness the huge Jewish outcry over the alleged anti-Semitism of the movie, "The Passion of the Christ."* Now consider how badly that backfired for Abe Foxman and his fellow travelers.* Mel Gibson's movie still is a marvelous fulcrum for discussion and ax grinding, provided it is not overdone and one concentrates on the Jewish overreaction.**

Simply asking someone if they have seen "The Passion" and then inquiring about their feelings concerning so many Jews calling it anti-Semitic and seeking its suppression will yield a gold mine of results.* As people discuss this topic and express their opinions (which only rarely will be contrary to our own), they actually develop their opinions on the spot.* Having voiced their opinions, our prospects become invested in them.* They then feel psychologically compelled to defend the opinions they have just voiced to you.* From prospect to convert to acolyte, all in one easy step.**

Can it be this easy?* Yes.* Remember the simple elegance of graceful movement, at once effective and efficient.* This is the conversational equivalent of expert skiing and is within the grasp of all beginners because it requires simple listening.* You set aside your own ego and needs while you merely nudge someone toward a foregone conclusion.* And there are several other key topics that can be employed in this form of awakening others, as discussed below.

Even so, some form of media which shocks the average American is necessary, in order to jump start the awakening process.* In particular, the National Alliance (NA) lately has struck upon a two-pronged strategy that is delivering results:* leaflets and billboards.* But, there is a difference from past leaflets and billboards in today's NA strategy.* The leaflet simply says, "Love Your Race" and carries a picture of a lovely blond woman.* The billboard says, "Who Rules America?" and gives the NA Internet web address.* Initially, people have a strong reaction to these media but, upon honest reflection, are unable to identify anything wrong, thereby highlighting the very thing that really is wrong with race relations in America today:* the grotesque double standard whereby White Americans always come up the loser.

Average Americans are not yet ready to abandon the guilt they believe they must shoulder if they stand up for their own race the way that every other race in America stands up for itself.* We must get them ready to make that transition.*

What the NA leaflets and billboards do, Mel Gibson's movie does with a vengeance, albeit with a healthy assist from that predictable Jewish overreaction.

We aren't talking supremacy here, folks.* We are talking about how to bring people from a self-defeating mode of thinking to one of true equality.* They want to go there, believe me, because they see the unfairness of racial preferences.

The alternatives are so simple.* We have them ready to hand, just begging to be used to awaken others.* Two things that cause even the most liberal American to see red are affirmative action and illegal immigration.* Suggest black slave reparations and watch even the hardened liberal squirm in discomfort.* Here is where we can make progress and awaken others.* Here is where we must concentrate our efforts.**

Count on the ADL regularly to drop a gift in our laps, too, such as the overreaction to "The Passion."**

The debacles in Afghanistan and Iraq, now clearly seen to have been for Israel's benefit, are another ripe area to be mined...particularly when you mention how prominent American Administration Zionist Jews such as Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz have agitated for widening the battlefront to include the rest of the Middle East.

Or the call for torture of American enemies by Alan Dershowitz, prominent Jewish attorney and Harvard law professor, a call which has been echoed by Canadian attorney and law professor Alan Young, who advocates expanding the application of torture to American political dissidents.* Dissidents like you and me.* To "kick start" our brains, to borrow Mr. Young's phrase, into thinking the "right" way...his way...the Jewish way.* This is the sort of outrageous Jewish overreaching that takes place every day and which effortlessly can be used against them, like a mystical oriental judo maneuver.

Talking up patent injustice visited upon particular individuals in society, as I try to do with some legal cases, is another productive approach.* The Zionists make this so easy, what with their gross overreaching and ridiculous attempts to stifle free speech.

Rather than complaining about blacks taking our white daughters, we should be railing against racial preferences and quotas that steal our jobs and unfairly relegate us to poverty.* Racial miscegenation will be dealt with in its own time, as events unfold.* Indeed, it will cease to be a problem.

Rather than espousing our own questionable racial superiority, we should be demonstrating against illegal immigration and the toll that it takes on the social welfare net we have erected for our children and those legally among us who fall by the wayside.*

Face it, whites aren't superior, just different.* Races have differences.* Differences have nothing to do with being superior or inferior.* Get used to it.* If you haven’t gotten this message by this point in this book, I despair of your ever getting it.

Not that differences don't count, mind you - they do.* Some differences count so much as to require strict racial separation simply to ensure the physical safety of one race from another's hostility.* This is another problem that will solve itself in time, though not without severe discomfort to all involved.

Rather than marching with Confederate battle flags and shouting "White Power," we should be protesting America's use of military force abroad.* The South lost the War of Northern Aggression.* Get over it.* Worry more about the current American aggression abroad that is killing our sons and daughters and increasing the likelihood of America being nuked by somebody.

The now-emerging issue of major importance to the average American is the increasing migration of our jobs overseas, as factories move abroad and existing jobs get "outsourced" by companies that maintain only a token presence in America.* Protesting NAFTA, GATT and the World Trade Organization wherever it meets are things that unawakened and unemployed Americans can understand and respect.

We are being whipsawed by the loss of our low-paying jobs to illegal immigrants and our higher-paying jobs to foreign countries.* Many of the better jobs that aren’t leaving America are going to better-educated foreigners, willing to work cheaply, brought here by the multinational corporations whose loyalty is only to their own bottom line.* Everybody can relate to job losses as an issue, especially those who are out of work.* In particular, America's growing legions of unemployed are a hotbed of potential racial awakening.


Click Here to Read Rest of Article (http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/columns/talk4.htm)


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We need both the carrot and the stick. The jews use niggers as a real stick and "diversity" and "multiculturalism" as fake carrots.

A post-script:

When you perform well, you might be asked: So what should we do, Nazi Boy? Kill everyone who isn't white?

Don't bristle too much at this response. If someone's asking "what should we do?", however qualified by insults, you've obviously gotten through. They listened, you made an impression, you weren't rejected as a total loon.

Have some responses ready. I typically say, "separate the races." This is sincere, however shocking. If you're in kiddie land, talk about ending affirmative action, immigration, etc. If someone ELSE jumps in and says, "Ship 'em back to Africa!", you're golden. You can look like a reasonable sort by comparison. Since I honestly don't think killing all non-whites is actually necessary for our racial survival, I don't offer that as a solution. I do make clear, though, that I would exercise a fully legally enforceable right of exclusion of Jews, blacks, or whoever I sought to exclude from my political system or geographic space, even if that needed to be backed up by violence.

The most important thing to remember is to never let yourself get backed into a defensive poisition. Once you have to defend yourself you've already lost the element and advantage of the offensive. THEY are the ones who are wrong. THEY are the ones who will destroy this world. THEY are the ones who must answer for the what they've done. Not I, nor any of you here. Instead of explaining the fine print of our philosophy make them stammer out their details for you. Question, don't be questioned.

I dont waste much time arguing these points anymore. If somebody doesnt know the score already, I doubt their common sense. My friends who disagree with me about Jews are mostly brainwashed by years of kosher patrotism. That includes several hardened atheists who, though they understand the nog problem, are still bedazzled by the Jew bullshit at capitalism.com though they officially swore of the rand cult years ago. what can you say to these people? I think big outreach efforts like VNN are good but individual conversation is a waste of time.

this may sound Jewish but I believe we should spend less time trying to edumacate our fellow White sheeples and more time trying to use them. If we want to beat the Jew, we have to be able to deliver resources. That is all the average bozo gives a shit about anyhow. The reason we have to care about the average lemming is as WLP pointed out in his famous broadcast of that name, it's probably upwards of 90% of our race. We cant write them off. But countering the years of hate propaganda against us, is good only to capture the 10% . The other 10% are drones. We need to be the soldier bees that tell them where to sleep fuck and shit and if they dont, they get corrected. A good soldier bee not only defends the hive from outsiders he defends it from internal disorder.

I disagree and here's why.

For one thing, I used to be one of those lackers of common sense you're talking about. And it's not "common sense" they're lacking, it's proper perspective. Others had the time and the patience to explain the white nationalist side to me, without being insulting, and it had a great deal of influence on me. I was horrified at first, but I kept at it, kept watching and kept reading, and before you know it, I was seeing what they were. I'm not a stupid person; in fact, I spend a damn lot of time analyzing whether what I believe is true or not. But so steeped are we in Jewish mind-control that even sincere people can be led astray. I ain't so smart that I can independently conceive of entirely new worldviews. But I am smart enough to select a good one from the available ones, and Jews have ensured that "white nationalism" is NOT on the menu.

I think of this when I bat back and forth with obviously thoughtful liberals (years after abandoning mainstream conservatism I can admit that liberals are, in general, a tad smarter). I try to keep in mind that the ones who scream most loudly about our ideas are those who, internally, are trying to reconcile a deeply-suppressed sense of the truth with what all the rest of the world is telling them to say. Don't count these people out. I figure someone who comes to our side kicking and screaming --- rather than out of some pathological fascination with something that's just shocking and outrageous and a juvenile desire to be antisocial, no matter what the cause --- is a damn good addition.

Pierce is essentially correct about his percentages, but I would modify "we only need to convince" to "we only need to convince to act." In other words, yes, throughout history, the active ingredients have been way less than one percent. But that is different from the numbers that need to be convinced about the issues. You'll have to change public opinion on a broad enough scale that people don't stand in your way or better, help you along. In other words, don't blow off the notion that we have a lot of work to do to spread our message and get our ideas out there. From the swirl of changing ideas will come change.

If somebody doesnt know the score already, I doubt their common sense... I believe we should spend less time trying to edumacate our fellow White sheeples and more time trying to use them...

Two years ago, maybe even less, I would have disagreed with Antiochus too. Now I agree with him totally.

There will be dozens of us to the thousands of sheep out there, and especially after 9/11 it's abundantly clear they can't think for themselves literally if their lives depend on doing so. They are proudly dumb and likely to stay that way.

The "American Soviet" in all this is what should scare the ass off any of you who are still pie-eyed about your "white kinsmen." We could very easily slide into a no-rights, constantly-surveilled police state much faster than I would have guessed previously. It's where the Oligarchy has everything and can exploit you or flush you at will. The will and the organization already exists to do that, between Bohemian Grove and the National Security Agency, and now of course Homeland Security. Hell, the Internal Security Clause of the McCarren Act has allowed for internal concentration camps in America since 1947. How many voting citizens know that?

If I consider the ripe steaming crap I'm getting from my fellow white men about the situation on other forums, it's our own dummies who are supporting the Oligarchy the strongest. Read 'em and weep at Pravda's forum or anywhere the Bush Brigade gathers.

So I'm being hopeless? Naaawww!

The opposite. Antiochus' point about using the bucketheads is the key here. Use them to discover the Remnant, the useful whites who will build the future when the house of cards folds. The sheep really do react to the strong, the willful, the honorable. MTV's contept will put a spotlight on the heroes of tomorrow. And the Remnants are real, quite of few of your real kinsmen have dropped out already.

They're out there...

Something I have always found effective is insisting that certain terms, especially those "loaded" ones that our adversaries are so in love with, like racist, diversity, antisemite, etc., be concisely defined. More often than not I find there is much less disagreement between us than it first seemed, and that they have been more or less cowed into certain patterns of thought, largely by accepting the terminology of the enemy with all its implicit connotations, whose absurdity usually becomes very apparent when explicitly defined.

I disagree and here's why.

For one thing, I used to be one of those lackers of common sense you're talking about. And it's not "common sense" they're lacking, it's proper perspective. Others had the time and the patience to explain the white nationalist side to me, without being insulting, and it had a great deal of influence on me. I was horrified at first, but I kept at it, kept watching and kept reading, and before you know it, I was seeing what they were. I'm not a stupid person; in fact, I spend a damn lot of time analyzing whether what I believe is true or not. But so steeped are we in Jewish mind-control that even sincere people can be led astray. I ain't so smart that I can independently conceive of entirely new worldviews. But I am smart enough to select a good one from the available ones, and Jews have ensured that "white nationalism" is NOT on the menu.

I think of this when I bat back and forth with obviously thoughtful liberals (years after abandoning mainstream conservatism I can admit that liberals are, in general, a tad smarter). I try to keep in mind that the ones who scream most loudly about our ideas are those who, internally, are trying to reconcile a deeply-suppressed sense of the truth with what all the rest of the world is telling them to say. Don't count these people out. I figure someone who comes to our side kicking and screaming --- rather than out of some pathological fascination with something that's just shocking and outrageous and a juvenile desire to be antisocial, no matter what the cause --- is a damn good addition.

Pierce is essentially correct about his percentages, but I would modify "we only need to convince" to "we only need to convince to act." In other words, yes, throughout history, the active ingredients have been way less than one percent. But that is different from the numbers that need to be convinced about the issues. You'll have to change public opinion on a broad enough scale that people don't stand in your way or better, help you along. In other words, don't blow off the notion that we have a lot of work to do to spread our message and get our ideas out there. From the swirl of changing ideas will come change.

welcome to the forum dw and thanks for your optimism. might as well try eh?

blacks taught me the score on them on the playground in second grade. but Jews-- that took me years of experience and research to appreciate. initially I thought that a severe defect. Now I see it as a capstone.

it might be interesting to have a poll in main discussion area, "before WN I was a) liberal or b) conservative. Should not make liberterian a choice because it often is a gateway to WN and reflects a type of dissent in itself that people dont "inherit" from their parents like they do the other types.

Is it really? I'm somewhat skeptical. Pierce stated categorically that he felt they were useless to WN. For the same reason Linder shitcans them: always going on about their individual rights. Very self-centered stuff. It's 180 degrees from me, me, me to racial groups are the driving force and context of past and present events, and I belong to one of them.

I'd say a sincere liberal or conservative is better WN material. I don't see any concept of citizenship; any responsibility beyond the individual in libertarianism.


Libties are fascinating. So much of what they do is good; deep and considered; so that it seems they ought to end up in our camp. In many ways they are not like the cons, the average ones of which are satisfied with superficial explanations - "they hate us for our freedom." The lipties exhibit solid thinking, but the racial area remains taboo to them. It is impossible to believe in honest history yet avoid race. You can see this in DiLorenzo. He's honest on the facts. But he's afraid to ask the questions his investigations bring up. If every president up til, say, Truman, was racist, why is racism wrong? Fear and self-interest explain part of the unwillingness to think in specific areas. I've never seen one support or attack or even discuss the dictum that racism or tribalism is the lowest form of collectivism.

I think a good way to swing cons is to tweak them by suggesting they aren't conservatives but liberals. If they're at all intellectual, call them utopians for their insistence in refusing to distinguish between races. If they blame all on culture, how are they different from liberals. Hit the double standard between jews' policies for Israel and America. How are there so many jews in the opinions business? How come they agree with the libs that segregation is evil and ought to be outlawed, at the cost of Constitutional freedom?

One of the standard diversions to look out for is never let a jew make an anology or a comparison.

That's the time honored method of changing the subject.

Tell him "we can discuss that another time but right now we're talking about THIS (fill in the blank)." Then stick to the particulars of the subject at hand.




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Words like liberal, conservative, and libertarian are much more truly and often used to sell or slander (a candidate, ideology, or idea) than they are to describe anything. When it comes to politicians, virtually all are neither liberal or conservative by any stretch -- they're just called that, partly to pretend there are actual differences between them when there are none.
When it comes to the 'voters' who call themselves liberal or conservative, they are duped and deluded if they really suppose that, by their actions, ("voting") they are actually either.

As far as libertarians (a relatively new moniker made necessary by the obvious absurdity of the so-called "liberals") go, there are at least two distinct schools of them. I usually describe myself as a "racist libertarian" and am of course opposed to the open borders type of libertarian whose freedom would soon be murdered by his own non-racist policies. --In other words, just like "Democrats" or "Republicans." (This pee sea, egalitarian type of libertarian is like Dr. Pepper, "for those who don't like Coke or Pepsi.")

Birdman Bryant has some very good definitions and articles on what is good and bad about these 3 general political philosophies (and/or what passes for them.)

"Democracy is also a form of religion. It is the worship of Jackals by Jackasses."
--H.L. Mencken

Is it really? I'm somewhat skeptical. Pierce stated categorically that he felt they were useless to WN. For the same reason Linder shitcans them: always going on about their individual rights. Very self-centered stuff. It's 180 degrees from me, me, me to racial groups are the driving force and context of past and present events, and I belong to one of them.

I'd say a sincere liberal or conservative is better WN material. I don't see any concept of citizenship; any responsibility beyond the individual in libertarianism.

You put your finger on a significant point in terms of temperament. But, I think many people use liberterian political critique to liberate themselves from the onesizefits all of the lib-con divide. So they are in flux.

I grew up conservative midwest republican, dumped it for Randroid liberterianism for years. Came out of that to WN. Concern from White Americans I had instinctively and it grew with time. Alongside, I learned the score about blacks at about 7 years of age. Took me till grad school to figure out the jews. I'm not sure what was a bigger factor in my cracking the jew riddle-- WLP on the internet, or being around them in the bigcity-school environment. Probably both eh? Anyways, the intellectual independence I learned from Jew Randroids I then applied to liberating my mind from Jewish racial obfuscation and to considering the benevolent possibilities a WN state would offer. Ironic, no?

dumped it for Randroid liberterianism for years. Came out of that to WN. Concern from White Americans I had instinctively and it grew with time. Alongside, I learned the score about blacks at about 7 years of age. Took me till grad school to figure out the jews. I'm not sure what was a bigger factor in my cracking the jew riddle-- WLP on the internet, or being around them in the bigcity-school environment. Probably both eh? Anyways, the intellectual independence I learned from Jew Randroids I then applied to liberating my mind from Jewish racial obfuscation and to considering the benevolent possibilities a WN state would offer. Ironic, no?

If they have anything in common, WN and Randism, it's hyper-criticalism. Radical, to-the-core criticism of social structure that suggests entirely new ways of conceiving the political arrangement --- a sense that you are going where few thinkers go. (Though we ultimately deny that we are radical, only that the current system is so far from natural that we appear so.) I think that goes to show how little subject matter has to do with how people form political opinions --- there's much more at work. In law school I went to a Federalist Society event where there were some Objectivists over in the corner. Kinda like the cool smokers in high school or something. Anyway, they all had the fever. It was interesting to watch. I was familiar with libertarianism - the pop version of Objectivism - but not to the extent these people had thought about it. I was impressed, I have to say, even a little unnerved by their zeal and focus. Really smart WNs have that same thing going on.

Interesting piece (may have been on VNN once) by a guy named Nicholas Strakon on race and libertarianism. Pretty good. I'll look for a link, meanwhile, here's the first paragraph:

Sweeping Rand's barnyard: Racism and individualism

By NICHOLAS STRAKON

In the good old days I recoiled, as a rational-individualist, from treating matters of race and ethnicity. According to my intellectual hero Ayn Rand, racism was the most primitive and barbaric form of collectivism: she referred to it, unforgettably, as "a barnyard or stock-farm version of collectivism." Despite Rand's own epistemological work on the nature and necessity of concept formation, an Objectivist would have felt that he was mincing out upon thin ice if he attempted to formulate substantially dependable concepts of human racial groups, i.e., if he investigated what individuals share ethnically and biologically, and the implications thereof. Instead, almost all of us stayed safely on shore, with Rand.

If they have anything in common, WN and Randism, it's hyper-criticalism. Radical, to-the-core criticism of social structure that suggests entirely new ways of conceiving the political arrangement --- a sense that you are going where few thinkers go. (Though we ultimately deny that we are radical, only that the current system is so far from natural that we appear so.) I think that goes to show how little subject matter has to do with how people form political opinions --- there's much more at work. In law school I went to a Federalist Society event where there were some Objectivists over in the corner. Kinda like the cool smokers in high school or something. Anyway, they all had the fever. It was interesting to watch. I was familiar with libertarianism - the pop version of Objectivism - but not to the extent these people had thought about it. I was impressed, I have to say, even a little unnerved by their zeal and focus. Really smart WNs have that same thing going on.

Interesting piece (may have been on VNN once) by a guy named Nicholas Strakon on race and libertarianism. Pretty good. I'll look for a link, meanwhile, here's the first paragraph:

Sweeping Rand's barnyard: Racism and individualism

By NICHOLAS STRAKON

In the good old days I recoiled, as a rational-individualist, from treating matters of race and ethnicity. According to my intellectual hero Ayn Rand, racism was the most primitive and barbaric form of collectivism: she referred to it, unforgettably, as "a barnyard or stock-farm version of collectivism." Despite Rand's own epistemological work on the nature and necessity of concept formation, an Objectivist would have felt that he was mincing out upon thin ice if he attempted to formulate substantially dependable concepts of human racial groups, i.e., if he investigated what individuals share ethnically and biologically, and the implications thereof. Instead, almost all of us stayed safely on shore, with Rand.

That essay also ran on the "Thornwalker" website. Here is the link. Take a look Dw if you havent. several randroids awakened to the reality of race: http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/index.html

In the end I guess it just depends on who your dealing with. I act like water when I bring the gospel of racism. Water is the way to be formless and it can fit any situation very effective.

Is that from the Tao Te Ching or Thus Spake Zarathustra?

Bruce Lee used to talk about being formless like water when he did martial arts. My first thought about the source was the Tao, but then Lee was eclectic, and very well read.

The Tao however, would pre-date Nietzsche, so I would go with that.

I think both point to a certain spiritual truth. Moreover, "the formless Void" is a nearly universal starting point for creation myths of many cultures. Taoism and Cha'an Buddhism or Zen bring that concept into daily life.

People say Bruce was eclectic. I dont think that is exactly right. He looks eclectic but actually he was pointing to different optimal training methods and concepts which he found expressed best in certain different schools. So in both wing chun and fencing, you have a consciousness of controlling the center. You do in chess to for that matter. But it comes out best in wing chun and fencing. Reflections of the same "truth" taken from different perspectives. So what sometimes looks like eclecticism or syncretism I think may just be a reasonable comparison of core concepts articulated in different modalities.

I would normally extend the analogy to religion but I'm sure you can imagine.

I'm not opposed to the traditonal method of staying in a style for a long time. I did tkd and shorin ryu for years alongside. Most people in tkd are clueless that the forms, at least the old set people were still doing in the 80s, were mostly from Okinawan karate. We did one called "Koryo" which was called naihanchi shodan in shorinryu. Anyhow, even in this form, there is all this grappling encoded in the movements, which usually none of the karate bozos korean or jap are aware of. Not until my teacher studied with George Dillman did we become aware of this and later in my study of aikido I found that I already "knew" many of the techniques like iriminage-essentially a clostheline with a bit of taisabaki, pivoting footwork-- because it was actually in one of my tkd forms. So, I think Bruce was just a very sharp fellow who trained hard and thought about things outside the box, which allowed him to make these connections. The problem with JKD is that most people are not that creative. They need "styles" and "schools" and faiths to orient them in the right direction. Or at least a direction that would be less erroneous than if they were left to their own devices.

for example, one of the best books I ever read on grappling was by Gene LeBell. He was a stuntman and a prowrestler. All the juijitsu crap was in there-- I dont mean the Gracie jiujitsu stuff as much as the Wally Jay type jiujitsu, the police come-alongs and so forth. Jointlocks and submission holds from standing postitions. I dont know how LeBell learned this crap, or how much of it was from Nip sources vs Occidental wrestling, but I doubt he passed it on. No "school" no rituals no forms no transmission of knowledge.

This is the context in which I understand religious faith by the way and why I am not eager to chuck it all overboard and resign it to the Jews. Ritual, schools, forms, styles, exoteric faiths, whatever, give form to the undirected, undifferentiated man. Only at a high level are the esoteric truths revealed. If you cast pearls before swine you waste values. Initiate people, bring them along, give them the building blocks to appreciate the higher concepts. Let the mediocre hold place, let the cream rise up. Give everybody something constructive to do along the way.

I have mixed feelings about Bruce Lee. I don't think he was a truly great fighter, but he was perceived as such because of his genius for fight choreography. Judo Gene Le Bell put him in a headlock and gave him noogies over a dispute about stunt coordination on the set of one his movies, did you know that? Lee came from Hong Kong, where stunt safety consisted of (and still does) landing on cardboard boxes from two story jumps. Le Bell wasn't going to endanger his guys the way Lee wanted, things got heated, and the mighty Bruce Lee got noogied. Now, you know Bruce Lee was a proud man. He wouldn't have allowed that if he could've at all prevented it.

Le Bell was a legitimate Judo champion in the late fifties and is one of the passers of the torch of purely occidental submission wrestling.

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=catch+as+catch+can+wrestling/v=2/TID=DFXL_33/SID=e/l=WS1/R=3/H=0/*-http://www.combatwrestling.com/catchcan.html

That's a link to Matt Furey, an arrogant little prick, but a good wrestler nonetheless. This article really gives the proper historical context of "Catch as catch can wrestling." This was the origin of today's freestyle, collegiate and Greco-Roman wrestling. The submissions or "hooks" of a century ago have been watered down and became holds, used only to control your opponent for brief amounts of time, in high school and college wrestling today.

Thankfully there's been a renaissance of occidental and oriental submission wrestling styles in recent years, and the syncretism continues.

cool link, thanks for the story!

antichrist, you've read go rin no sho too eh? how about "hagakure?" Barnes and Noble is selling a paperback run of that title now. Pick it up if you havent read it.

AE, Steve B, T. Garrett, Vlad, Nick ( combat vets especially), what do you make of this little essay right here? It's titled "The Wrestling Turks and American Military Morale in the Korean War" by Don Miller. I'm forewarning you, especially you combat vets, the first half of the essay is devoted to pissing on American military camaraderie and discipline in an inimitably judaic fashion; the only question remaining is whether this "Anglican priest" is a conscious or unconscious semitic fifth-columnist.

http://www.combatwrestling.com/turkishwrestling.html...

First I would clarify to readers I am not a veteran of the armed forces. However I have studied and practiced martial arts of various kinds for many years.

Good essay. I will put aside my personal dislike for the Turk for a moment and reflect on them. Turks have a core ethnic identity under their national identity and Americans do not. That is liable to always put us at a disadvantage in any pressure situation. Not to mention, Turks have a macho culture. They are famed for their brutality. Turks worship strength to the point where they now are Israel's number one military ally in the Middle east. Turks always had Jews about their empire to help exploit the locals. Turkish imperialism and English imperialism were very similar and that is why Great Britain handled former Ottoman possessions far better than the US which looks like amateurs by comparison. Anyhow, prior to the Jew/YoungTurk takeover/ collapse of the Ottoman caliphate, it was a tradtional order of sorts which helped foster a strong ethnic identity among the people. You can see the residual evidence of that in this essay about how well they held up as POWs in North Korea.

Finally they are famed wrestlers. You can see that people who seek the truth often come to it by very different paths. After a while however the different paths start to look the same from a distance. All your martial artists are experiencing a similar interface between their martial skills, their martial arts, and their national-ethnic identity that lies at the heart of bushido and before bushido, the Aryan kshatriya of ancient India. Read Julius Evola about this topic.

In America, you have this "individualist" mentality. That is fundamentally at odds with "bushido" let's call it, because the kshatriya, or member of the warrior caste, has as his sacred purpose devoting his life to the path of action (as opposed to contemplation, the brahmin way) and consecrates his life through a willingness to make a voluntary sacrifice of himself to the greater community of nation, ethnicity, race, or Imperium. Mere self defense is only a starting motivation for martial arts. Ironically, one can never fully realize oneself through martial arts practice, until there is a greater community in mind than oneself. I believe this is why martial arts is so popular in the US-- it's atomized individuals looking for the greater whole.

Rogers wasn't into olive-oiled Turks in leather britches doing reach arounds, I don't think.

Damn, where do you get this stuff, Doppel? I had to wash my eyes out after that one. Hoo boy.

LOL..........................

AE, Steve B, T. Garrett, Vlad, Nick ( combat vets especially), what do you make of this little essay right here? It's titled "The Wrestling Turks and American Military Morale in the Korean War" by Don Miller. I'm forewarning you, especially you combat vets, the first half of the essay is devoted to pissing on American military camaraderie and discipline in an inimitably judaic fashion; the only question remaining is whether this "Anglican priest" is a conscious or unconscious semitic fifth-columnist.

http://www.combatwrestling.com/turkishwrestling.html

Very telling essay. This ties into Prot/Anglican/Presby liberal pussification and collaboration with the enemy (the kind of thing Mr. Miller accuses American servicemen of doing), including whether or not xtianity itself is a gigantic inducement to race suicide. Note the calls to end racial strife at the bottom.

Where's Keystone? Was "Don Miller" Fred Rogers nom de guerre?

I would blame the "cult of momism" for draining the nation of its manly virtues. While in the past the American mother had kept busy raising a large family and keeping house, the modern era of home appliances provided women more time to dote upon fewer children, creating "mamma's boys" who lacked the emotional and physical toughness that made America great.

The Turks did do well in the Korean War but so did the British. I also think that Americans were targeted more by the North Koreans than other allied troops for the simple fact we were leading the charge as the say.

In addition, I believe that the military training American GI's were given in the 50's was inadequate and amounted to little more than "Gettysburg-era" training. While in North Korean prison camps American GIs were inundated with thousands of hours of Communist propaganda. Unsophisticated, badly trained enlisted men could not hope to combat the anti-American arguments with which their captors assaulted them. Hell, they could not even adequately understand why they were fighting in Korea in the first place. Is it any wonder, that poorly educated country boys fell prey to North korean psycological breakdown.

Then you have the cout de gra....We call our soldiers cowards for their effort in Korea but the fact remains our political and military leaders didn't have the guts to win that war and in fact victory was never the aim.

Is there a minute that goes by that you don't think about jews?

You're the one who dragged Mr. Rogers and me into the conversation.

You're reaching here, Doppel. Trying to link the "pussification" of some American servicemen with Protestant teachings is groundless. Because one guy who had something else to do during the Korean War said so? How many American POWS depended on their faith to successfully get through imprisonment? Please present a study on that. Do you hate religion?

If you don't see the humor in oily Turk wrestlers, well........choose your articles more carefully.

I never "sparred" anyone. When I had to fight I fought. Nothing heroic. Black eye, tooth knocked out, stitches. Whatever.

Come on, your religion has already given you Black friends, it's already softened you up for ZOG. You don't think about Jews enough. I don't think you really internalize their control over White minds.

I would blame the "cult of momism" for draining the nation of its manly virtues. While in the past the American mother had kept busy raising a large family and keeping house, the modern era of home appliances provided women more time to dote upon fewer children, creating "mamma's boys" who lacked the emotional and physical toughness that made America great.

The Turks did do well in the Korean War but so did the British. I also think that Americans were targeted more by the North Koreans than other allied troops for the simple fact we were leading the charge as the say.

In addition, I believe that the military training American GI's were given in the 50's was inadequate and amounted to little more than "Gettysburg-era" training. While in North Korean prison camps American GIs were inundated with thousands of hours of Communist propaganda. Unsophisticated, badly trained enlisted men could not hope to combat the anti-American arguments with which their captors assaulted them. Hell, they could not even adequately understand why they were fighting in Korea in the first place. Is it any wonder, that poorly educated country boys fell prey to North korean psycological breakdown.

Then you have the cout de gra....We call our soldiers cowards for their effort in Korea but the fact remains our political and military leaders didn't have the guts to win that war and in fact victory was never the aim.

Not only that but consider how many fathers who are supposed to provide leadership for their sons, never do that!!! I've seen many fathers who were more concerned with getting constant attention from their wife than providing their sons with the right way of life. We have a nation of males today who are completely addicted to female attention from the cradle to the grave, it's gone way beyond any normal interest in women and it's become pathological.

I've seen 20 year old White males enjoying attention from 50 year old fat Black women. They get all soft and emotional just from a pat on the back!!!

Apparently recognition from females is it's own form of psychological addiction and it's a big problem right now in White males.

First I would clarify to readers I am not a veteran of the armed forces. However I have studied and practiced martial arts of various kinds for many years.

Good essay. I will put aside my personal dislike for the Turk for a moment and reflect on them. Turks have a core ethnic identity under their national identity and Americans do not. That is liable to always put us at a disadvantage in any pressure situation. Not to mention, Turks have a macho culture. They are famed for their brutality. Turks worship strength to the point where they now are Israel's number one military ally in the Middle east. Turks always had Jews about their empire to help exploit the locals. Turkish imperialism and English imperialism were very similar and that is why Great Britain handled former Ottoman possessions far better than the US which looks like amateurs by comparison. Anyhow, prior to the Jew/YoungTurk takeover/ collapse of the Ottoman caliphate, it was a tradtional order of sorts which helped foster a strong ethnic identity among the people. You can see the residual evidence of that in this essay about how well they held up as POWs in North Korea.

Finally they are famed wrestlers. You can see that people who seek the truth often come to it by very different paths. After a while however the different paths start to look the same from a distance. All your martial artists are experiencing a similar interface between their martial skills, their martial arts, and their national-ethnic identity that lies at the heart of bushido and before bushido, the Aryan kshatriya of ancient India. Read Julius Evola about this topic.

In America, you have this "individualist" mentality. That is fundamentally at odds with "bushido" let's call it, because the kshatriya, or member of the warrior caste, has as his sacred purpose devoting his life to the path of action (as opposed to contemplation, the brahmin way) and consecrates his life through a willingness to make a voluntary sacrifice of himself to the greater community of nation, ethnicity, race, or Imperium. Mere self defense is only a starting motivation for martial arts. Ironically, one can never fully realize oneself through martial arts practice, until there is a greater community in mind than oneself. I believe this is why martial arts is so popular in the US-- it's atomized individuals looking for the greater whole.

Good post. The "individualist" mentality is also a primitive "live entirely for momentary pleasures" way of life which is similar to the gay lifestyle. The more I look at the false path of Whites today, the more I notice the gay connection. The 50 year old gay male looking for random "hook-ups" with 17 year old boys in the local park is just as disconnected from community and future generations as the White businessmen millionaires living in their high rise apartments.

The other day I was impressed by the quote from the recently killed Hamas leader Rantisi....several weeks before he was killed he said, "I'm not afraid to die, we all die someday, either you die by cardiac arrest or you die getting killed by an Apache helicopter, I prefer to die by Apache!"

I thought, here's a guy who feels inside that we are on our way out of the world now how many Whites today truly act like that?? Oh sure, they have religion, but why do I see so many White Senior citizens still trying to become millionaires?? Their behavior never reflects that death is Real to them. Their behavior always seems totally focused on self and the current moment .

My religion didn't choose my friends, Otto. I picked them.

You guys seem to think that because I have black friends I have NAACP BBQ's and plot the downfall of whitey. My friends are a very few black families who don't hate whites. That's it.

I don't internalize Zionist hi-jinx. You do. They have no control over my mind unless I allow it.

You fail to understand that the average White person is just a product of their generation and the media of the time. You said you are 43 years old? Well you didn't grow up on MTV...if you had grown up watching rap music and all of your friends liked rap, don't you think you would be much different today????

This is why none of us will allow you to dismiss or minimize the importance of Jewish control and the effect it has on White society.

Spent 4 years in Uncle Sam's Navy. Very proud of it. Oh, wait, I was serving ZOG!! For shame. See? I can't win with you.

Pittsburghers all faggots? Please see the boxing thread in Defense section. That's just empty raving.

You are a very reactionary young man. Calm youself.

Edit: I really can't say what I've contributed to the forum. That's for you to decide. I did move to the Opp Room, didn't I?

Do you even understand the concept of ZOG?

Start by learning this: The Israel Lobby group known as AIPAC controls Congress. They fund election and re-election campaigns and also help introduce Senators and House members to wealthy corporate contributors.....it's all considered perfectly legal under our system but it's the origin of ZOG.

Check AIPAC's website if you want to see their agenda up close:

http://www.aipac.org/

I think you have it there, Steve.

Korea was a war without a clear purpose. Nothing to rally round during hard times.

well containment was the purpose. today I think it would have been fine if we let the south collapse. the japs wouldnt have been very happy though and keeping the japs happy was key for the moneyed elite and their "trilateralist" fantasies. Ever wonder what trilateralist means? there lines, from Japan to US to EU. A precursor of that which is now known as globalism.

much of the cold war was a farce. instigated by the same AngloJews who insisted we join the war to bail out england and crush Germany. If we had simply let Germany do its thing, England would have sued for peace and the USSR would have collapsed. There never would have been any snivel rights crap or integration here, never would have been the erosion of freedoms and liberties, never would have been shit invasion post 65. Maybe other problems, maybe worse problems, but those, no. Those were specific products of the decision taken to enter WW2.

SO I would say, fuck Korean war and Vietnam. Both Ho Chi Minh and Kim Il Sung were nationalists. They took up with USSR for backing. In Korea, we took over the puppet government of collaborators with the Japs which the Japs had used for 50 years of occupation. In Vietnam, there was never even that much.

In Iraq, there is absolutely no viable government nor will there be. The lesson has not been learned has it?

"Body Of Secrets" is a book about NSA. In it there are revelations about how Eisenhower was provoking the soviets with regular invasions of Soviet airspace. So much for the idea that they were always the belligerents. LIES told to us by our government.

your average soldier is a patriotic lemming of sorts, usually not well off to begin with, looking forward to GI bill to get them the holy graal of "college." There is nothing wrong with joining up for being patriotic before you've had exposure to the truth nor wanting to take advantage of GI bill. There is something wrong with believing the bullshit about racial egalitarianism the government spews after seeing it proven wrong up close and personal. that is why there are so many vets at vnn and in WN generally.

Serving in the jew's sandbox will be just the thing to give our enlisted a chance to learn what before may have only been incomprehensible: The Jew. After a few years pulling weight for Izzy, they'll figger it out-- the smart ones.

As for the civilian contractors that were hoisted in Iraq, those werent US soldiers. They were mercenaries. I'm not very sympathetic. They signed on to fuck with Iraq and Iraq fucked back. Too bad for them. I'm not going to wave the flag for them. They took the risk and signed on the Imperial contractor payroll. Anyhow, I extend their families condolences and ask them to consider why.

I didnt really consider that denigration, but I dont really care anyhow. I told you I didnt serve and most flag-wavers would say therefore I have no right to an opinion of the Imperial forces. But I dont give a shit for flag-wavers or coloreds in Uncle Scmuel's Misguided Children or whatever. I know enough people who did serve and almost all of them were more racist when then exited than when they came in. Experience teaches is the theme of my comment. In your case, you may not have learned.

As for making fun of the Turk wresters it was not like the wwf shit of today. It was common to be killed or crippled. As for the oil and leather pants was for a reason and not a homosexaul one.lol The leather pants are so the other guy can not grab your clothes to try and throw you. Which could result in a broken neck or back. And the oil is the for the same end. Harder for your oppent to grab you and throw you there are lots of handles on the upperbody to grap on and throw or control the other person.

Are you implying that the WWF wrestlers oil up just to make gay sex more enjoyable??

Keystone makes many valid and insightful arguments. Probably one of the smartest members who posts on this site. Kudos to Keystone!!:D

As Archie Bunker once said, "What are you talking about, you dumb Pollock?" :D

Examples, please?

I think what we have in Keystone is White Nationalism lite. He knows theres something really fucked up with this country but is reluctant to name the jew because that would be "anti-semetic" and he lacks the fortitude to go that rout so he comes to VNN and VNNF looking for some insight and maybe a few answers and perhaps some intelligent persuasion.

Instead of constantly putting the knock on the guy maybe we should focus on the views we have in common with Key and work from there.

Waddya say, cupcake?

I think what we have in Keystone is White Nationalism lite. He knows theres something really fucked up with this country but is reluctant to name the jew because that would be "anti-semetic" and he lacks the fortitude to go that rout so he comes to VNN and VNNF looking for some insight and maybe a few answers and perhaps some intelligent persuasion.

Instead of constantly putting the knock on the guy maybe we should focus on the views we have in common with Key and work from there.

Waddya say, cupcake?

I kind of agree with you. Keystone does have a certain courage in how he brushes off our attempts to degrade him. I think he just doesn't like the stigma of White Nationalism and the extra baggage that comes with it..and by baggage I'm speaking of Hitler, Holocaust denial, etc....these issues are way too hardcore for people like Keystone who have lived most of their lives in the Republican "mainstream".

I've noticed that being disgusted with Jews has to be felt on a gut level. Apparently many Whites do observe Jews pursuing their own self centered goals, but somehow this observation of Jewish behavior doesn't quite offend them to the core. That's probably the difference between them and us. Most of the members of VNN have internalized a negative almost instinctive reaction against the Jews.

But you are right, let's work on Keystone. He deserves at least that much from us for having the determination to stick around.

I kind of agree with you. Keystone does have a certain courage in how he brushes off our attempts to degrade him. I think he just doesn't like the stigma of White Nationalism and the extra baggage that comes with it..and by baggage I'm speaking of Hitler, Holocaust denial, etc....these issues are way too hardcore for people like Keystone who have lived most of their lives in the Republican "mainstream".

I've noticed that being disgusted with Jews has to be felt on a gut level. Apparently many Whites do observe Jews pursuing their own self centered goals, but somehow this observation of Jewish behavior doesn't quite offend them to the core. That's probably the difference between them and us. Most of the members of VNN have internalized a negative almost instinctive reaction against the Jews.

But you are right, let's work on Keystone. He deserves at least that much from us for having the determination to stick around.

Once again Otto, you've said it better than I did!

Keystone seems reasonable, he seems like a "nice guy," but I don't recall any memorable pearls of wisdom. The other day he determined that Linder and Antiochus E. were the same person. I suppose he thought he had found a split personality, one athiest, one not.
He admits that there is a "jewish problem" but won't commit to dealing with it. However nice and reasonable, he fails to show acuity or courage in my opinion. It takes no courage to rave, snarl, and spit at antis on this forum but I would expect a thinking grown White man who reads VNN etc. to be able to acknowlege reality and get off the fence by now.
Most of the rest of us are "nice guys " too. There are aspects of the forum that I don't want to associate with either. No need for long descriptions of drawing and quartering here. I don't look forward to the chaos, I certainly don't relish dwelling on the grim aspects of what ITZ COMING! means. Like all, I have no idea how it will come down, whether a bang or a whimper. Whether shooting at roving bands of negro cannibals or seeing old folks eating out of trash cans, its not pretty to contemplate.
We are all conditioned to expect something ugly to take place before the rigged elections. Soon. Will it be Mossad/CIA or real sandniggers this time? Shit, could be either or both. Zog is ready for martial law here, at least they are ready to try it.
Get ready, it is coming; whether police-state or anarchy or both in that order.

Keystone makes many valid and insightful arguments. Probably one of the smartest members who posts on this site. Kudos to Keystone!!:D

A thinking, grown, etc. I see no reason to say stupid things just because I'm communicating with someone stupid. Name-calling, spell-check victories, and typing ptui and other spitting noises should be eschewed.
Isn't it time to understand that the opposition is not composed of thinking grown White men? I've come to this conclusion.

We are debating the dull, the anti-intellectual, the mixed race, and the egalitarian fairies, not men.

Smile, kick them around and have a great time.

You're correct about the White Nationalist baggage. Most of it is not worth it's weight.

Hitler was an utter failure. His reich lasted 12 years and got a lot of people killed and Germany reduced to rubble. It was his plan, his ideology and it happened on his watch. His responsibility. "Great Leaders" with great visions take responsibility for their actions and fight to the end. They don't blow their brains out after cowering in a bunker long after defeat was a forgone conclusion. The Hitler model is nothing I would crow about in WN literature.

WN's have glommed on to some of his jew-mania and racial concepts and seek to build a new white nationality out of them. Most white people outside your movement see A. Hitler= lots of dead people. And they would be correct.

I don't go for the "holocaust" tag the jews put on their losses during WWII. Everybody lost way too many people in that clusterfuck. Dead is dead. World Wars are holocausts by definition.

I was never mainstream. I try to think objectively about things. I wasn't born in a bubble. I object to labelling every white person who doesn't internalize your fears the way you do as weak and deluded. You gents seem to think more about jews and minorities than you do about whites. Look to your own house first.

Edit: I have a thick skin. Thanks.

Hitler only failed because there were too many world powers opposing him. You wrongly blame Hitler for killing Allied soliders when there was nothing more or less moral in The Third Reich's ambition in seeking Empire in Eastern Europe as compared to Britain controlling Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Palestine, and India.

You don't find it a little hypocritical that Britain and France only declared the era of Imperialism to be over after they had already gotten all of the territories they wanted??

Re-read Mein Kampf, there is no mention of conquering America or Britain. Both of those nations forced Hitler into war by aggressively confronting him in such a way to provoke conflict. Pat Buchanan wrote several articles about FDR's orders given to U.S. ship Captains in September of 1941 (when the U.S. was still neutral) to chase and fire at U-Boats in the North Atlantic. In accordance with FDR's wishes, these U.S. ships would follow a U-Boat for up to 3 hours and when finally the U-Boat was forced to turn around and defend itself, FDR would run screaming to the press, "U-Boats are shooting at American ships!!! Your sons are being fired upon!!!!"

Keystone, an entire web of activity was going on in Allied nations among their leadership to lure Hitler into a large conflict which he couldn't win long-term. I'm surprised that you don't see this?? You have fallen into the lemming trap of viewing WWII as a fight between "Good" and "Evil"...what's noble about Britain thinking that they were the ones who had the right to determine which nations in Europe could control certain territories?? Were the Germans ever asked if they approved of the British domination of the Middle East? Were the Germans allowed to demand that the British pull out of India?? Of course not.....

Did you know that the British killed 10,000 Saudi Arabians in 1919-1920?? These Arabs wanted freedom. What's the difference between the British killing to keep an Empire and the Germans crushing the Polish resistance???

Keystone, you are an American but when it comes to WWII you are letting the British set the agenda and the rules. This is wrong in so many ways.

You're correct about the White Nationalist baggage. Most of it is not worth it's weight.

Hitler was an utter failure. "Great Leaders" with great visions take responsibility for their actions and fight to the end. They don't blow their brains out after cowering in a bunker long after defeat was a forgone conclusion. The Hitler model is nothing I would crow about in WN literature.

This is the ultimate in flag-waving lemminghood. You wanted Hitler to be captured alive and hung at Nuremberg so that all the Jews of the World could experience spontaneous orgasms?? That's unreal, whatever your dad brainwashed into you about Hitler you have taken it to the utmost extreme.

Would you have preferred that Hitler get captured by the Soviets and then they could skin his body and put him on display in a Moscow museum? Would that please you?

It's difficult for me to believe that your hatred of Hitler is as deep as the hatred of the Spielbergs and Cohens of the world. Get over yourself and get over boundary flag-waving simpleton thought. Hitler was trying to protect the White race against Jewish domination. The Allies were fighting to spread Jewish control. This is the reason why General Patton was relieved of his duties in 1945 because Eisenhower was telling him to appoint former Marxist/Jewish concentration camp inmates as Mayors in German towns and Patton was outraged and declared, "Those people are not qualified to run a city! The former Nazi town officials are qualified to maintain order, I see no reason to remove them just because they happened to be members of the party."

No. Understand that there are numerous problems. Some of the most troublesome to our race have jews as the source.


No. White people have no collective agenda anymore. We are now, unlike ever before a population in decline. We need to start working together again or perish forever.

Exactly right, there is no unified White agenda. It's rare that I even hear most Whites use the term "White"...In fact, when I first became a racialist I felt almost foolish using that term because no one else did.

That sounds good, it even sounds biblical. What does it really mean though?
I looked to my house and threw the one-eyed Jew out of the living room in September of 2001. There now.
Now, Keystone, how do I get the bastards out of my Capitol? Out of the pentagon?
To paraphrase Linder, what do I do when I "look to my house"' as you suggest, and find my Jewish neighbors dropping cockroaches and trash on the property as fast as I can clean? Taking my paycheck before I see it? Destroying my neighborhood by selling to a black and then buying up property cheap after values drop?
What do you suggest?
Hey Doppel !

I would never ignore you. Hell, it's hard to.

I never pretended to have pearls of wisdom; I try to respond with what common sense I have and from personal experience.

I'm relatively well-read and I follow along with some of your references and/or links. I just don't have the time to cite and link to everything I talk about, so I decided not to. I'm the only anti here.

As far as MOMUS' comments about courage and acuity about jews, what would you have me do? Blame every stinking problem whites have on worldwide jewry? That's the convenient way out. Everybody has an agenda, collectively and individually. Nations, ethnicities, religions. Why have WN's given god-like status to jews? We are helpless before them. They are more powerful than Yahweh himself. They are omniscient and omnipresent.

WN's have taken all responsibilty away from white persons for their own failings and placed it squarely on the jews. Very convenient. We should look to our own houses and not buy into another's agenda---literally. Or are whites that weak? Maybe we should try norcalnative's approach and nuke everybody.

God argument is below:

What I am trying to say is that how do we expect the developing world to develop when all we do is poach their best and brightest people? Many people are dying in the developing world because of the lack of doctors and nurses, they cant get the treatment because their staff have been poached and are working in the UK.
The benefits for us are that we have less waiting time, but people are dying so that we can have less of a wait. The situation is true of other professions that we are just stealing from poor countries that are being kept down.

And I have to say that this encouragement to bleed the developing countries dry comes from people of the far left!! The so called 'anti racists' who are unwittingly racist themselves!

The Wehrmacht killed some of my kin and harrassed others. Fuck them and fuck Hitler. It's a family affair.

Why don't you blame FDR for that??? He never really attempted to keep America Isolationist despite what he was telling the American people. Behind the scenes all of his moves were toward war.

Think about this point, FDR and congress had already started the Draft in the Fall of 1940...

The Wehrmacht killed some of my kin and harrassed others. Fuck them and fuck Hitler. It's a family affair.

A question, Keystone: What were the circumstances of The Wehrmacht killing some of your "kin" and harrassing others?

I do blame FDR---and Sodden Winnie. I guess you have some jewish connections at hand. I believe I've read some of them.

Who was our last isolationalist President? Coolidge? I know that bastard Woodrow Wilson wasn't. Safe for democracy and all that rubbish.

See, I knew you could be reasonable on this. FDR's behavior led to the result of pushing Hitler closer towards Japan. Originally when the Nazis created their Japanese alliance it was only intended as a direct threat to the Soviet Union, and then later on it was used to intimidate the British because Japan obviously posed a potential danger to Britain's territories in the Pacific.

It has been proven by Historians that Hitler was just as shocked by Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor as Americans were. Hitler's decision to declare war on America on December 11, 1941 was in his mind necessary because in Hitler's opinion, FDR was definitely going to enter the war against Germany sooner or later.

jews have coopted the media, the legal system and the government in general in this country. They have been actively working to remold the united states into a more comfortable place for jews to live and to serve as the big stick protector of israel. The interests of the united states non-jew citizen are secondary to what's best for jews and israel. jews in the highest echolons of the american govt and american system work to make it that way.

The fact that there are many traitorous whites who assist this jewish agenda allows Keystone to say hey, it's not the jews, it's yourselves. Don't blame the big boys pushing the agenda, take it out on the traitors who go along with them.

Well, that's a fair point but a limited one. It does allow one to affect a safe and ostensibly "objective" view of national destruction. From that stance one can always say it's not THEIR fault for hating you and doing what they can to destroy you. It's YOUR fault because some of you are cooperating. That scenario is similar to the one about leaving the keys in your car then getting blamed yourself when the car is stolen. The criminals are given a free pass because, well..... they're criminals. YOU are to blame because you were not vigilant enough to resist them.

See how that works? The Keystones say don't blame the beings working toward your destruction. That's just what they do. YOU are obliged to resist them effectively. If you don't resist them effectively whatever happens to you is your fault. Then when you DO counterattack the Keystones are there to insist that you're imagining things and overreacting.

Take Keystone's position and you can never be wrong.

The above rule does not apply if you're a jew talking about Germans of course. jews are allowed to ridicule and criticize whomever they please. When Germans or Whites return the favor though and criticize jews Keystone seems to find Whites are the ones with who are out of line. Keystone reminds me of the teacher who arrives late to a schoolyard fight and invariably busts the guy who took the first punch and was only trying to defend himself. The guy who started it walks away smirking because he not only got in a free punch but he also put one over on Mr. Objectivity.

Give me an example as to how the jews persecute you in everyday life. I mean like waking up, working, coming home and going back to sleep. Show me how you couldn't change that with some initiative on your part.

First of all, Keystone, you are viewing everything from your own life circumstances of a 43 year old man who is married, has already had children, etc...your kids didn't grow up when rap was popular and TV was much less morally destructive than it is today. An 80's TV show like "Three's Company" is tame compared to the crap shown in primetime now. Homosexuals were only for ridicule back then, but today they are celebrated as trendy cultural icons.

I'm 30 years old but I can only imagine the chaos that some White guys age 20 must feel these days. We've got a society now in which younger White women have sex with minorities and with each other. His girlfriend could leave him for a Black or a Lesbian, anything is possible and the Jewish controlled media has justified all of this.

Also, what about our tax money that congress keeps sending to Israel? This is Billions of dollars, Keystone....it reduces your overall spending money in case you didn't know that?

They have a stranglehold on the government of my country. They start wars in jewish interests that they themselves don't fight but Whites are forced to pay for and die in. They create ill will for this nation around the world and ill will for me personally because I carry a passport from a country that's under their control which they use as a proxy to fight izrael's battles and create mayhem on jews' behalf worldwide.

On my father's side, his big brother and my oldest uncle was shot down over Belgium. Tail gunner. Last mission before rotation.

On my mother's side, two uncles wounded in France.

I'm sorry to hear that...a fuckin shame! White men killing each other like that. I don't want to sound like an unfeeling ass, Key....but have you ever asked yourself just what in the god damn hell was your kin was doing in Europe in the first place? Fighting for democracy or was it something else?

And if it was "something else" why are you blaming Hitler for your family members deaths? I don't want to get into a big Hitler debate here key because as you say, you watch a lot of the "History Channel" and as such, your judgement might be a little clouded to say the least but shouldn't Europe be the problem of Europeans not Americans? Shouldn't the Middle East be the problem of Middle Easterners and not Americans?

Sure we have a stake in those places and we have to protect our interests but isn't the best way to go about it, is by making friends with these people and not invading their countries and continents and dropping bombs on them?

For example, The Middle East: Who is more important...a billion Arabs who own all the oil or Israel who has no oil, small population and for the most part causes a lot of trouble for everybody involved?

Who was more important in pre-war Europe? The French? Communist Russia? or the Germans? Germany, where under Hitler, workers and employers belonged together as a united entity and were not to be agitated nor played off against one another, contrary to our capitalist system of today. A country that went from nothing to greatness in only a matter of years. Shouldn't we have tried to make friends with a country like that instead of bombing it into the stone age at the behest of a small group of Judeo-Anglo-American capitalists, their lackeys and stooges, on behalf of their gold and their money?

Here is an interesting link, Key. suffice to say you won't see it on the History Channel but it might give you a perspective on the whys and wherefores of WW2.
http://faem.com/eric/kurreck.htm

I'm sure your grandmother's cousins did what they had to do at the time, but that doesn't excuse the Wehrmacht from killing and wounding my people. They were the enemy at the time. Fuck them. Honestly. My Austrian grandparents who had three American sons in WWII could hardly speak English and they gave the middle finger to your Uncle Wolfie. Their ox was being gored.

You place too much value on ideology and not family. Weird as that may seem. WN is as obtuse as I am sometimes.

Your family was killed by FDR, your biggest weakness is a lack of understanding simple cause and effect ....in some ways this is where your feminine emotionalism comes out instead of reason....

I suppose those Germans were supposed to just stand there and wait for your relatives to shoot at them?? Grow up!

...Christians mostly....

See my earlier points about traitors and boughtlings. It's a jewish agenda they're pushing. The fact that the kikes trot out whites or christians as front men is hardly surprising. It only makes sense to use others as lightning rods. Why accept responsibility for destructive measures when you can place it on one of the locals? You can't be seriously suggesting whites are not being bought or frightened by jewish bucks, threats and espionage. If that is what you're saying we both know you're being obtuse.

What is it you require? A case by case record of every individual example of jewish perfidy against governments and individuals since the beginning of recorded history? I shan't do that research for you, that would take one man a thousand years. Even if I did have a thousand years to do it I suspect the facts presented wouldn't be enough. If christians are the problem perhaps you can explain why jews have been forcibly removed from most christian nations in Europe at some point in history while pagans, say, were left alone? Is the recognition of jewish destructiveness against host nations all a recurring mass hallucination that pops up in different times and different places for some unexplained reason? If it is why is it limited to wishing for removal of jews?

Is it acknowleging patterns of behavior you're having difficulty with? If yes I will presume then you regularly stroll through downtown Philly with your wife and kids after dark, not a care in the world. The side streets I mean, not the lit up main drags.

If you flat out refuse to see, no factual information will ever enough. It's too easy to require others to do all the digging, then when presented with information you say, "yes, but what about that one exception...." or personal anecdotes such as "my uncle used to do business with them and he said..." This is appearing to be that sort of game usually played by antis. I do give you credit, you're more subtle than most.

....Did you even read those things I posted?

No, he doesn't do that. He addresses points he's comfortable with then ignores those he finds awkward.

I agree, Nick, and listen to the phony outrage when he gets in a corner; stop bandying his war-dead, you naughties:

Good Grief, you guys really are sick. You'll bandy about folks' war dead like a political beanbag.

Have you no decency? You're so fucking paranoid about jews that you attack anyone or anything that doesn't conform to your right as victims?

Screw the lot of you internet Nazis. Sick bastards.

ENo, he doesn't do that. He addresses points he's comfortable with then ignores those he finds awkward.

Good reference, Doppel. That phony outrage is just one of their standard stunts. It worked against Mc Carthy that day.

Have you no decency, Sir? At long last, have you no decency?


Yeah, that's freudian. Or more likely intentional. I missed that myself. Good eye.

Who was it that laid that on McCarthy? It was one of the hollyhebes wasn't it?

See my earlier points about traitors and boughtlings. It's a jewish agenda they're pushing. The fact that the kikes trot out whites or christians as front men is hardly surprising. It only makes sense to use others as lightning rods. Why accept responsibility for destructive measures when you can place it on one of the locals? You can't be seriously suggesting whites are not being bought or frightened by jewish bucks, threats and espionage. If that is what you're saying we both know you're being obtuse.

What is it you require? A case by case record of every individual example of jewish perfidy against governments and individuals since the beginning of recorded history? I shan't do that research for you, that would take one man a thousand years. Even if I did have a thousand years to do it I suspect the facts presented wouldn't be enough. If christians are the problem perhaps you can explain why jews have been forcibly removed from most christian nations in Europe at some point in history while pagans, say, were left alone? Is the recognition of jewish destructiveness against host nations all a recurring mass hallucination that pops up in different times and different places for some unexplained reason? If it is why is it limited to wishing for removal of jews?

Is it acknowleging patterns of behavior you're having difficulty with? If yes I will presume then you regularly stroll through downtown Philly with your wife and kids after dark, not a care in the world. The side streets I mean, not the lit up main drags.

If you flat out refuse to see, no factual information will ever enough. It's too easy to require others to do all the digging, then when presented with information you say, "yes, but what about that one exception...." or personal anecdotes such as "my uncle used to do business with them and he said..." This is appearing to be that sort of game usually played by antis. I do give you credit, you're more subtle than most.

I've noticed that lemmings never ask for endless proof of something told to them on TV. It's enough for Sean Hannity to talk about something for 5 seconds and they are convinced. However, take an argument out in the real world and you can sit there and talk with someone for 2 hours and they still remain stubborn. The sad reality of this is that they have appointed mass media as an all-knowing Father figure and their trust in this Father is 100%....

Really, just imagine the most ridiculous statement you could make in public such as "Hitler wanted to blow up the entire world" and the lemmings wouldn't correct you because TV doesn't ask for critical thinking, it's just "Yes, Father, whatever you say." No matter how stupid, how unrealistic, or how childish an idea sounds, the masses believe it if it's given on TV by the so-called "elite" who of course know everything.... :rolleyes:

Welch: I meant to do you no personal injury and if I did, I beg your pardon. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?

Thanks DH. I wonder if Welch was a hebester. If he was I'm not buying any more Welch's grape juice.

"The Army-McCarthy hearngs reached a dramatic high point today in an
angry, emotion-packed exchange between Senator Joseph R. McCarthy and
Joseph N. Welch, special counsel for the Army.

Irritated by Mr. Welch's persistent cross-examination of Roy M.
Cohn, Senator McCarthy suddenly injected into the hearings a charge that
one of Mr. Welch's Boston law firm associates, Frederick G. Fisher Jr.,
had been a member of the National Lawyers Guild 'long after it had been
exposed as the legal arm of the Communist Party.'

Mr. Welch, almost in tears from this unexpected attack, told the
Wisconsin Republican that 'until this moment, Senator, I think I never
really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness.' He asked Senator McCarthy
if any 'sense of decency' remained in him.

'If there is a God in heaven, it [the attack on Mr. Fisher] will do
neither you nor your cause any good,' Mr. Welch declared."

http://rpuchalsky.home.att.net/mccarthy.html

It seems to me Welch is flat-out telling McCarthy, you are making it a jewish thing now and thus you're a goner.



Thanks DH. I wonder if Welch was a hebester. If he was I'm not buying any more Welch's grape juice.

"The Army-McCarthy hearngs reached a dramatic high point today in an
angry, emotion-packed exchange between Senator Joseph R. McCarthy and
Joseph N. Welch, special counsel for the Army.

Irritated by Mr. Welch's persistent cross-examination of Roy M.
Cohn, Senator McCarthy suddenly injected into the hearings a charge that
one of Mr. Welch's Boston law firm associates, Frederick G. Fisher Jr.,
had been a member of the National Lawyers Guild 'long after it had been
exposed as the legal arm of the Communist Party.'

Mr. Welch, almost in tears from this unexpected attack, told the
Wisconsin Republican that 'until this moment, Senator, I think I never
really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness.' He asked Senator McCarthy
if any 'sense of decency' remained in him.

'If there is a God in heaven, it [the attack on Mr. Fisher] will do
neither you nor your cause any good,' Mr. Welch declared."

http://rpuchalsky.home.att.net/mccarthy.html

AE is without a doubt one of the five smartest people on this board. He said Keystone sounded more like a jew than Yehudi. Ol' Nick here is also quite astute.

Does anyone really believe this fucker is a White middle class guy?

Why go to all this trouble?

I think Keystone is White but he's mentally stuck in the 1950's. For some odd reason the WWII Allies forms the core of his identity even after all of these decades have passed....

He says he is 43 which means he was a teenager in the 1970's...Was this "Long Live Eisenhower! Go get 'em Omar Bradley!" mentality still that strong in the 70's????

America defeating the Axis Powers has become a pseudo-religion in this country. Do you ever hear anyone talk about WWI with the same kind of feminine emotionalism as when WWII comes up??? I doubt it...WWI is ancient history but they treat WWII as though it just ended last week.

Clearly the Jewish movie industry wants to keep WWII alive to actively use this to prevent any rise in White Nationalism. They have to keep the White masses always on edge about Hitler and the "horrid" Anti-Semitism and therefore the "glorious" Allies can never be forgotten...

I've noticed that lemmings never ask for endless proof of something told to them on TV. It's enough for Sean Hannity to talk about something for 5 seconds and they are convinced. However, take an argument out in the real world and you can sit there and talk with someone for 2 hours and they still remain stubborn. The sad reality of this is that they have appointed mass media as an all-knowing Father figure and their trust in this Father is 100%....
That's true Otto. The antis will whimper endlessly demanding proof then more proof of whatever point you're making. It's never enough. After a while you begin to realize all they're doing is making you bust ass and spend time gathering information. They have no intention of looking objectively at what you're presenting. When they can they'll find some insignificant exception to it then say "see -- your point is invalid."

I've actually shown people documented records or sworn testimony and they'll just say "I don't believe it." How do you respond to that except to laugh out loud? That "I don't believe it" comeback is the final escape hatch for those who WILL NOT see. After I heard that a few times I finally understood that facts aren't sufficient to persuade closed minds.

Boy kids were still reading the Sgt Rock comics and playing with toy soldiers up into the late sixties and on. Watching reruns of rat-patrol, hogan's heroes, McCale's navy etc. Lots of WWII glorification when he was a kid. if he truly had all those WWII kinfolk then he grew up looking to them as hero/role models.
Or perhaps he is a slimy little judenmischling who has set himself up by the door there in the Opp. ward as the "voice of moderation."
I think Keystone is White but he's mentally stuck in the 1950's. For some odd reason the WWII Allies forms the core of his identity even after all of these decades have passed....

He says he is 43 which means he was a teenager in the 1970's...Was this "Long Live Eisenhower! Go get 'em Omar Bradley!" mentality still that strong in the 70's????

America defeating the Axis Powers has become a pseudo-religion in this country. Do you ever hear anyone talk about WWI with the same kind of feminine emotionalism as when WWII comes up??? I doubt it...WWI is ancient history but they treat WWII as though it just ended last week.

Clearly the Jewish movie industry wants to keep WWII alive to actively use this to prevent any rise in White Nationalism. They have to keep the White masses always on edge about Hitler and the "horrid" Anti-Semitism and therefore the "glorious" Allies can never be forgotten...

It seems to me Welch is flat-out telling McCarthy, you are making it a jewish thing now and thus you're a goner.
Yeah it does sound that way. Sort of a subtle yet firm notice being given that he's just stepped over the line and passed the point of no return. Those were the days when hymie & company weren't nearly so bold in public as they are today. So they kept the rhetoric toned down. But clear.

Remember The Dirty Dozen? It was a movie about a fictional group of convicts and murderers recruited to blow up a Nazi headquarters. I think about that flick now and recall my reaction upon first seeing it. I was a young fellow and completely unaware of real history but I was struck then by a jarring note in the movie.
The American criminals sneak into and stalk through a luxuriously appointed bomb-shelter where high-placed Nazis and their beautiful blonde women are partying. Presumably German children sleep in another room. The Germans are stalked and murdered individually and then the bunker and all occupants are blown up.
What was jarring was the way the director lingered over the murders, gloated as the criminals listened to the screams of the trapped occupants through a vent on the roof. The hate he felt for those victims struck even my naive sensibilities then.
Now I understand.

I'm sure your grandmother's cousins did what they had to do at the time, but that doesn't excuse the Wehrmacht from killing and wounding my people. They were the enemy at the time. Fuck them. Honestly. My Austrian grandparents who had three American sons in WWII could hardly speak English and they gave the middle finger to your Uncle Wolfie. Their ox was being gored.

You place too much value on ideology and not family. Weird as that may seem. WN is as obtuse as I am sometimes.

Key, Your grandmothers cousins were invading German territory...the Germans were not invading theirs! This is the same logic the Israelis use to invade Pal lands! Invade someones country, shoot the people and when they fight back scream oy vey they are "killing and wounding my people, fuck them".

You're going to have to come up with a little better arguement and some thought out refutations against these big dog forum posters (Otto, Nick, Vlad, Momus and Dh) than what you've been puting forth so far. I know it's gonna be tough because they're smart and well read and you are only 1 guy and it seems like you're being ganged up on and a massacre is happening before your eyes but I know you can do it, Key! Go get-em boy!

....Cohn went on to a very lucrative private practice. I've a feeling Welch didn't do too badly for himself, either. All this judeoprop about the trail of shattered lives in McCarthy's wake. Sickening. Even the ones who had to temporarily duck and cover found some work in hymiewood somewhere, albeit under pseudonyms.

Cohn checked out after a lingering bout of anal pneumonia as I remember.

My dad used to have some writer friends who were supposedly "blackballed" during those years and he used to talk about it somewhat bitterly many years ago. But as the '60s and '70 rolled around and he saw what was happening to the country he completely reversed his position and said the newspapers had invented a fairy tale and were complicit in making victims and heroes out of anti-american zhid traitors.

Stalag 17 was a great flick but to see it today is to see it though the mirror. The plot actually involves a crafty jewish huckster (well played by William Holden, looking aryan but behaving like a jew) who outwits and exposes a German-American spy in the barracks and then effects a successful escape while rescuing the heroic rich goy pilot hidden in the watertower. The cast of characters crawls with jews.
Knowing all that now, I'm still fond of the movie.
Keystone-like, huh?

Only now when I see those sixties' movies do I realize how openly they were showing their hand, even then. "The Sand Pebbles" e.g.. Another movie I saw with Brando starring: It's in B&W, he's a blond German army officer during the end of the war, meets his CO's wife (after Brando's character unwittingly helped him commit suicide) upon his request...and this beautiful blonde woman, of course, starts trying to seduce him, with her husband not even cold yet.

Gotta love those jews to death, don't ya?

Back to The Dirty Dozen. The one line I really liked from the film was when Telly Savalas asks the CO, "Do we have to eat with niggers?"

The same thing I would ask if I were ever invited to one of Keystones' BBQ's.

in Sand Pebbles (US gunboat San Pablo on Yangtze River, pre WWII). I don't think I've seen the Brando movie.
Stalag 17 was a great flick but to see it today is to see it though the mirror. The plot actually involves a crafty jewish huckster (well played by William Holden, looking aryan but behaving like a jew) who outwits and exposes a German-American spy in the barracks and then effects a successful escape while rescuing the heroic rich goy pilot hidden in the watertower. The cast of characters crawls with jews.
Knowing all that now, I'm still fond of the movie.
Keystone-like, huh?

Stalag 17 was a great flick but to see it today is to see it though the mirror. Knowing all that now, I'm still fond of the movie.
Keystone-like, huh?
I'll watch it if I run across it when it's on. I always like the line

"Pinochle, it's a rough game"

from Holden as he answers the Swiss Red Cross guy on how he got the black eyes, heh.

Holy Shit! Talk about crocodile tears! Talk about phony outrage!

I don't know much about Counselor Welch (other than that he was talented at feigning being insulted and injured, like Keystone), perhaps he was a goy in a jew's body, again like our friend Keystone, just screaming to get out!


LOL

Keystone is one of the tribe, can’t you see thru his comical ambiguity? His waffling and shuck n jive on all issues is a sure sign of his yiddishness. I roll on the floor yukkin reading all the responses to him, this oddball ex-deck ape as he claims. Remember another jew who was Navy and what he did selling our ‘secrets’ to murdering little Izra-hell?
Cheers

TG

Stalag 17 was a great flick but to see it today is to see it though the mirror. The plot actually involves a crafty jewish huckster (well played by William Holden, looking aryan but behaving like a jew) who outwits and exposes a German-American spy in the barracks and then effects a successful escape while rescuing the heroic rich goy pilot hidden in the watertower. The cast of characters crawls with jews.
Knowing all that now, I'm still fond of the movie.
Keystone-like, huh?

The interesting thing about those Americans who tried to escape German prison camps is that they actually had more hope of staying alive if they had just sat there and waited out the war. Only 6% of U.S. soldiers died in German POW camps but of course how would American soldiers know that at the time? After being filled with Jewish Hollywood propaganda about those "Evil" Nazis they naturally thought that unless they escaped, they would be killed. Actually the opposite was true, by trying to escape and creating problems for the German guards, they got killed.....

So who knows how many American soldiers died merely because they believed Hollywood/Jewish lies about the Germans being ruthless and crazy?

....Only 6% of U.S. soldiers died in German POW camps but of course how would American soldiers know that at the time? After being filled with Jewish Hollywood propaganda about those "Evil" Nazis they naturally thought that unless they escaped, they would be killed. Actually the opposite was true, by trying to escape and creating problems for the German guards, they got killed.....

So who knows how many American soldiers died merely because they believed Hollywood/Jewish lies about the Germans being ruthless and crazy?

True. If they had accepted the fact they were prisoners and just concentrated on staying out of trouble and staying alive even more of them would have made it.

Speaking of american POWs, if you like reading war stories I'd recommend you to go to your local library and see if they have this or can find it for you:

Guests of the Kremlin

By Lt. Robert G. Emmens

It's the true story of a bomber crew from the Doolittle raid on Japan that was forced to land in the USSR. They were captured then "detained" by the Russians for most of the war, but they eventually managed to escape to Iran with some help from Russian citizens. It's a fascinating diary of their years in Russia as well as their escape and it's real easy to read. It's an old book, written just after the war ended, but it's still available in quite a few libraries.



Edit: Corrected spelling of author's name

LOL

So you guys finally got under his scaly skin and he quit? LOL, nah he’ll be back like a bear to the beehive. Jews are the only people I know of that love to be disliked, they seem to thrive on the disgust normal humans feel when in their presence. Mein gott, could there ever be a more glaring proof of this than their sick, sociopathic little Izrael and its murder, lying deceit of and theft from the helpless local Arab population? Well, we all know from history the cycles of jooish acceptance and rejection by other humans, ya? The Big Pogrom is just around the corner, and nothing, not even the political control of the world’s most powerful state, will save ‘em from the righteous anger of the entire world, eh?

Party hearty pudgy Keystone with your pets, soon we will be hearing stories of jews on the barbie, the ‘good’ times are soon to end. Ah, the ‘salad days’ never last more than a few generations with you people does it, he he he. Yum yum!

Fe Fi Fo Fum
I smell the blood of a jewish-man
Ill take my gun and shoot him dead
And grind his bones to make my bread

Cheers

TG

Hey there

Whats a smelly kike doing on VNNF? Specially a SQUID, bring this boy to my Capn's Mast and Ill learn his ass. hh

Keystone, lamenting his kind killed by the Wehrmacht. Did he think that would change our minds? Most of us have kin who fought in WW2. So what. 3/4 of my Great-grandfather's older brothers were in the Michigan infantry and were killed by Confederates. Do I hold that against the Defenders of the South in the War of Northern Aggression? Of course not. Both sides, enlisted men voluteered for the war out of patriotic reasons and both sides followed orders. That is true of WW 1 and 2 as well. The good intentions of the military on both sides are in my mind generally beyond question. Unless you are talking about mass civilian murders-- that you can question for obvious reasons. When we talk about the good and bad of historic wars in the current situation we are considering political decisions and motivations and tribal loyalties and what they mean for us today. Our own familial loyalties in those days are not what must guide us today, but reason and the good of our race.

The same standards would apply and be true for consideration of the Civil War, true of our German ancestors that may have gotten the axe in the horrible Thirty Years war, and so forth.

Keystone knows that he's just stirring the pot.

For what it's worth, my grandfather was an infantryman for the US in WW1 and my dad told me he always thought well of Germans not in spite of this experience but because of it. But he disliked Frenchmen. I on the other hand have put this dislike of frogs aside and prefer to dislike Limeys instead. But they are all tribal members of our same race, and no "anti" will be able to disorient our general agreement on this matter.

You encounter the argument quite a lot that Jews must be no threat because how could such a poor, oppressed, non-offensive, helpless, etc, etc. people possibly put one over on all the non-Jews?

What it boils down to is this: Jews stick with Jews, no matter their seeming public spats or disagreements. At the end of the day, they do what's best for their race, while encouraging "individualism" (as opposed to individual rights in a pan-Aryan society) and all that crap among their enemies, pretty much all non-Jews.

This is a survival strategy, honed by years of living as "guests" in other races' countries. Without it, they'd have long been susbumed into the gene pool of other races or outright killed off, so in that sense, I understand it, but that doesn't mean I won't oppose it.

The thing joobies fear the most is for Whites (their most capable of enemies as well as the most generous of hosts) to start acting like Jews. That would truly spell the end of Jews worldwide, and they know it, judging by all the time and effort they put into preventing the formation of White racial awareness.

The closest thing we've seen to this in modern history was the pan-Germanism of NS Germany, which is why it seems to harbor such a special place in the annals of Jewish hatred.