[QUOTE=Colonel.Kurtz from another thread] ...[W]hat's even worse, is that the N/A appears to have been totally hijacked by "known xtians", including Ed Fields of Atlanta, Hal ("Gimme money or I'll punish everyone") Turner, and Don Black. Folks, I believe it's long past time to recognize that xtianity is as much to blame as judaism for the mess we find ourselves now...

Of course you are correct, Col. Kurtz, except that none of these Bible-thumping racists you mention could hijack anything to do with the National Alliance without the complicity and treachery of Chairman Gliebe. Thanks to this thread I was tipped about former NA staffer Jerry Abbot's Web site, http://www.jabpage.org/ where I found this anecdote written by Jerry:
---
I can testify from my own experience that Erich has no moral qualms about conning the National Alliance membership. During my production of a formatted electronic version of the National Alliance Membership Handbook, Erich told me that he intended to delete references to Christianity that Dr. Pierce put into the original version. Erich said that Dr. Pierce's summary about the incompatibility between mainstream Christianity and the philosophy of the National Alliance offended many Christians, and, for the sake of recruiting more Christians, he would remove that text from the new edition of the Membership Handbook.

I asked him: "Are we changing our ideology or tricking the Christians?"

His reply was: "Mostly the latter."
---

Boy, that says it all! Dr. Pierce would NOT approve, to say the least. Everything Mr. Abbot writes at his Web site under "The Decline of the National Alliance" rings true and conforms to what I know first hand about the "decline" since Dr. Pierce's death -- EVERYTHING! He has no reason to lie about such a matter, whereas Gliebe and crew have many reasons now to deceive their followers. I tried to support Gliebe against his many detractors in the first few months, figuring he had a strong, supportive board of directors and a staff that would keep things on track and help him to find his legs. However, after Gliebe told me one glib lie too many I backed away and let things run their sorry course. It was a cinch, I assumed, that given enough rope he would hang himself and be replaced by the more responsible board of directors. I didn't figure on Gliebe firing or driving away everybody who had the Alliance's best interests at heart.

All the petty bullshit of personalities aside, Gliebe's worst sin, to me, is this deliberate softening, for the sake of expediency, of the Alliance's hard line stand defining Xianity as an opposing ideology. What a thoughtless blunder! Dr. Pierce's brutal honesty on this subject is what attracted me to him in the first place back in the late 1980's. It is why I accepted his offer to come and work with him as the Alliance's first Membership Coordinator. The very idea that Gliebe is now the proprietor of the Cosmotheist Church Community when he obviously has no concept of what it represents makes me sick. Dr. Pierce's naming of Gliebe as trustee of the CCC from his death bed was HIS biggest blunder, bar none.

I will take some time to transcribe what Dr. Pierce had to say on the subject of compromising Alliance ideals with Xians and Xianity in a little-known editorial he wrote in the National Alliance Members' BULLETIN in 1982 -- 21 years ago -- and post it here. I can't imagine how Gliebe plans to pull off such crap and keep loyal, long term members on board. He will have to purge lots of anti-Xian books from the NVB catalog -- including _Hunter_, my favorite novel -- so as not to offend the tender sensibilities of what Dr. Pierce called the "hymn-singing crowd."

Back to the drawing board...

Hey Will, good to see you here. I don't know how much of this is really personality conflicts, per se......Anybody close enough to Gliebe to have a personality clash with him would also be close enough to have a legitimate abhorrance with his activities, once it was all seen up close.
The fact that you were Dr. Pierce's very first membership coordinator way back in the 80's, and was his right hand man for so long, may tend to hurt Gliebe's supporters when they allege that any disagreement with the new N.A. is just jealous outsiders who are bitter about Gliebe's brilliant success.
If Gliebe has absolutely no understanding of the N.A.s true position on judeochristianity and will pervert Dr. P's intentions, just imagine how real skinheads feel about his blundering around in our music and culture with his band of rats and pretending he can influence things and twist us and what we do to serve his own interests.
Back to the drawing board indeed.
It doesn't give me much pleasure to be the one to do as much as I have to dismantle the new N.A., but at this point it's like taking Grandma off the machine. It's a mercy killing, so there's no point pussyfooting around.

The following is an editorial written by National Alliance Founder and long time Chairman William L. Pierce in the NA Members' BULLETIN early in 1982. It needs no comment:

THE NATIONAL OFFICE has received a few complaints (fewer than expected) from members about what has been perceived as an anti-Christian bias in recent issues of NV [National Vanguard magazine]. One member has resigned.
The complaints fall into two general categories: 1. "I am a Christian. Why are you attacking my religion?" and 2. "I am not a Christian, but many White people are. We must all stick together. To attack Christianity is divisive."
It should first be noted that the National Alliance is not primarily a religious organization --at least, not in the usual sense of the word, although most members are able to recognize the strong spiritual element in the Alliance's message. Second, it should be noted that the National Office is fully aware of the sensitive nature of the Christian religion, and for that reason NV avoided the question for a long time.
This avoidance, however, was in conflict with the Alliance's fundamental obligation to deal forthrightly with 'all' issues of vital concern to the welfare and progress of our race. This obligation where Christianity is concerned has become especially difficult to ignore during the past few months, with the growing strength of the Moral Majority and other right-wing Christian groups and their active participation in political matters. The member who resigned said she was also a member of the Moral Majority. The leader of that organization, the Reverend Jerry Falwell, has been outspoken in his support of Zionism, and he was recently given a Zionist award by Jewish leaders. There exists a clear conflict of interests for any Alliance member who supports such an organization, and the Alliance member should not compromise in matters of this sort.
This is not the place to deal at length with details of religious history and doctrine; NV will continue to have articles on these topics from time to time, and there will be such an article in the April issue. Here, however, a few things will be mentioned briefly for the guidance of Alliance members.
The most important single fact concerning Christianity with which the Alliance must deal is that all the major Christian churches, Catholic and Protestant, liberal and fundamentalist, have openly aligned themselves with the enemies of the White race. The Catholics and the liberal Protestants are vigorously supporting racial mixing, while the fundamentalist Protestants are strong boosters of Zionism. These alignments will become increasingly important factors in our struggle in the years ahead, as the churches become more and more involved in social and political issues. The Jews have already announced their intention to mobilize fundamentalist Christians in their effort to maintain control of the U.S. government. The Alliance cannot remain silent in the face of such developments, for the sake of White unity or anything else.
No honest, conscientious Alliance member can maintain his membership in the Alliance and also in an organization which is fundamentally opposed to the goals and principles of the Alliance. The former member who belongs to the moral majority acted correctly in resigning from the Alliance, and the same applies to others: Any Alliance member who is also a member of a church or other Christian organization which supports racial mixing or Zionism should decide now where he stands, and he should then resign either from his church or from the Alliance.
In fact, the great majority of Alliance members who originally had some Christian church affiliation have already made their decisions and left the churches. Those members who continue to consider themselves Christians either have no church affiliation or belong to very small, independent churches which have pro-White doctrines. It is primarily these members who have objected to the recent treatment of Christianity in NV. "It's all right to attack the big churches," they say, "because those churches have been subverted by the Jews -- but don't attack Christianity itself. What the churches are preaching today isn't really Christianity."
Well, far be it from the National Alliance to decide what is really Christianity. Christians have been fighting with one another over that question for the better part of the last 2,000 years without arriving at an answer acceptable to all parties concerned. From a strictly practical viewpoint, however, we must use the word "Christianity" in NV in the sense in which it is understood by the general public and by the great majority of readers. In that sense, "Christianity" means the lumped together doctrines of the major Christian churches, without regard for all the little quibbles which separate Catholics from Protestants, or ultra-liberal Presbyterians from Holy Rollers and teetotaling Baptists.
Beyond this question of whether it is the race-mixers and Zionists or the pro-Whites who are the real Christians, there are the troubling issues of the non-European origin of Christianity: of the great body of Christian ethical doctrines which are accepted by nearly all the churches but which conflict with White spirituality and the needs for White survival, such as the Sermon on the Mount; and of the body of Old Testament. Jewish mythology -- such as the creation myth of Genesis; the "chosen people" myth, and Isaiah's ravings against all non-Jews, together with his prophesies that the Jews will eventually rule the world and all other races will serve them -- which comes along with most versions of Christianity.
All three of the aforementioned issues are relevant to the mission of the National Alliance, and they cannot be ignored: We must look to our racial roots, and we must rid ourselves of alien influences, including those from the Levant; we must govern ourselves by White values and ethical doctrines, and by no others; and we must concern ourselves with truth alone.
A number of men and women who have understood the first two of these issues but who have, nevertheless, still considered themselves both Christian and pro-White have attempted to resolve the contradiction by denying the Jewish origins of Christianity and by choosing interpretations of Christian ethical doctrines which differ markedly from the commonly accepted ones. They have asserted that not only was Jesus not a Jew, but neither were the people living in Palestine during the Old Testament and the New Testament periods Jews. These people, they say, were actually the ancestors of the Anglo-Saxons and other peoples of Europe.
One can argue either way about Jesus, because the historical evidence is insufficient to support a firm conclusion. But the assertion that the people of the Old Testament or the people of Palestine among whom the Christian movement began were Anglo-Saxons, or anything but Semites, for the most part, is demonstrably false. Such assertions can only be maintained by persons who close their eyes to the clear historical record, just as a belief in the creation myth of Genesis can only be maintained by persons who refuse to accept the clear scientific evidence to the contrary.
If, despite everything above, there are Alliance members or prospective Alliance members who still consider themselves Christians, then it must be in the sense that they value the specifically White elements of Christianity which have been added since its origins -- the great art, the great music, and the great architecture produced by White men during the centuries in which the Christian churches ruled Europe -- and that they also share the White spiritual feelings which have been eloquently expressed by many men and women who were Christians and who applied the adjective "Christian" to feelings which, in fact, came from deep within the White race-soul and existed long before the advent of the Christian church.
Such Christians we can call our comrades and be proud to have in our ranks.

Sheet, man. Please check out out your local christ-stain t.v. station sometime. These people are the sickest bastards on earth. At least the jooz are out in the open about their self worship and their hatred of everyone else. These christ-stains are vile joo worshippers, gushing about Armageddon, and they love to wipe a nigger's ass. That's why as soon as one of these christ-stain cults pop up in China, they squash it right away.

The evanjewical christ-stains are hoping and praying for a global bloodbath so they can all take their magic carpet ride to heaven. I also remember when Menachem Begin, the joo terrorist, was the the prime minister of Pissrael. Whenever he came to the U.S. he would always appear on the christ-stain t.v. stations to pat the christ-stain sheep on their heads and collect a few bucks. Just listen to Gary Bauer or any of these christ-stain lunatics. And I do mean lunatics. Delusional, paranoid. psychotic, lunatics.

The funny thing is, before 9/11, the jooz were trying to blame the Catholic Dope for their Hollycost. Now the jooz have softened up on their Dope bashing so they can get the christ-stains to go kill some moslems for them. Christ-insanity provides the sheep and the jooz provide the wolves.

Jerry Abbott wrote and was quoted:
Erich said that Dr. Pierce's summary about the incompatibility between mainstream Christianity and the philosophy of the National Alliance offended many Christians, and, for the sake of recruiting more Christians, he would remove that text from the new edition of the Membership Handbook.

I asked him: "Are we changing our ideology or tricking the Christians?"

His reply was: "Mostly the latter."
---
I worked a month at the National Alliance office last summer and Shaun Walker claimed that deleting the passages in the Membership Handbook that were offensive to Christians had been his idea. Evidently Walker had put the idea into Gliebe's head.

At the time Walker was telling me this, he was excited about Ed Fields' promise to join the NA. Walker was hoping that the NA would buy Fields' tabloid, The Truth at Last. For some reason Walker thought that Fields' willingness to sell the tabloid was a great coup that he had achieved. I objected that the readership of TTAL (elderly right-wing Christians) was not really promising Alliance material. Walker responded that in his opinion the NA should have a number of media outreaches that present different faces to different people, copying the Jews' tactic of dissimulation, with TTAL potentially serving as the NA's facade for right-wing Christian types.

Of course anybody who would propose such methods is completely out of tune with the ideals taught by William L. Pierce. Aside from the fact that dissimulation requires a lot of effort to maintain, it takes away from us our best weapon, the truth.

Hello, Hadding! It's always a pleasure for me to cross paths with you again.

You wrote:
"I worked a month at the National Alliance office last summer and Shaun Walker claimed that deleting the passages in the Membership Handbook that were offensive to Christians had been his idea. Evidently Walker had put the idea into Gliebe's head."

It has been suggested that our "Aryan Barbarian" took one too many shots to the head during his ring career and exhibits symptoms associated with the early stages of pugilistic dementia. Give Walker credit for being able to to put anything at all approaching an idea -- right or wrong -- into Gliebe's hard head. I remember laughing when I read one of the only interviews with Gliebe since he took the NA helm, in the Roanoke, VA, paper, I believe. He said something like, "Dr. Pierce was a philosopher; I am a strategist." Maybe I was crying? It has been downhill ever since for the National Alliance.

"At the time Walker was telling me this, he was excited about Ed Fields' promise to join the NA. Walker was hoping that the NA would buy Fields' tabloid, The Truth at Last. For some reason Walker thought that Fields' willingness to sell the tabloid was a great coup that he had achieved. I objected that the readership of TTAL (elderly right-wing Christians) was not really promising Alliance material. Walker responded that in his opinion the NA should have a number of media outreaches that present different faces to different people, copying the Jews' tactic of dissimulation, with TTAL potentially serving as the NA's facade for right-wing Christian types."

Brilliant strategy! We used to direct these types to Xian groups like the KKK or Aryan Nations, or to Fields where they belong. White Revolution, a group whose leadership is made up entirely of NA expatriates who DO understand Dr. Pierce's courageous stance against Xianity, but who somehow manage to dissemble that for the sake of building their half-baked "umbrella of White unity," was hatched almost as a direct result of Gliebe's chairmanship. Regardless, WR is a much better place to send the spookchasers than the above named folks, though I could never support such a dishonest strategy myself -- it reminds me of the character Saul Rogers in _Hunter_, you know, the man who spoke in Bible Scriptures and wore the little battery-operated halo to fool BABs. By becoming defensive, attacking WR and turning them into enemies of our Alliance rather than working with them, Erich managed to turn everything Dr. Pierce built so carefully into that big pile of shit Jerry Abbot writes about.

"Of course anybody who would propose such methods is completely out of tune with the ideals taught by William L. Pierce. Aside from the fact that dissimulation requires a lot of effort to maintain, it takes away from us our best weapon, the truth"

Exactly! The idea of Gliebe and his girls being in possession of the Alliance research library and Dr. Pierce's body of work, much less the property and physical plant, is an unmitigated disaster, but it is not the end of a noble movement, nor does it kill the idea that beats in our breast.

As long as there are a few of us, pure in spirit who "get it," and who will not compromise the truth of what we know for the sake of expediency, we will rise again, stronger than before. We know who we are, and thanks to the internet and particularly to forums like this one, we will not have such trouble finding each other next time. Look at what's happening as a necessary purge, a cleansing.

As long as there are a few of us, pure in spirit who "get it," and who will not compromise the truth of what we know for the sake of expediency, we will rise again, stronger than before. We know who we are, and thanks to the internet and particularly to forums like this one, we will not have such trouble finding each other next time. Look at what's happening as a necessary purge, a cleansing.[/QUOTE]

Yes there is hope in that. At the same time, though, the fact that Gliebe and company are allowed to have the resources that Dr. Pierce built up over a lifetime, not only 330 acres of White living-space but also the copyrights to Hunter, The Turner Diaries, and Which Way Western Man?, is very hard to stomach. If anything was ever worth a lawsuit, this is.

Copyright, Shmopyright, they won't be around to sue anybody in a few years, we can just reprint them......

No, the rights to TD are very valuable. It is an underground hit. Somebody should acquire the rights for it ASAP or it will somehow probably end up in the pocket of sleaze dees or somesuch.

...[T]he fact that Gliebe and company are allowed to have the resources that Dr. Pierce built up over a lifetime, not only 330 acres of White living-space but also the copyrights to Hunter, The Turner Diaries, and Which Way Western Man?, is very hard to stomach. If anything was ever worth a lawsuit, this is.

No doubt, but without Fred S., Kitti M. and Dr. Bob -- 75% of the legitimate board of directors -- solidly on board as determined plaintiffs, not to mention the need for a competent legal team and the financial resources to prepare a case, shop a venue and all else involved in bringing litigation, I'm afraid the legal window has nearly closed because of the board's weak stand. Kevin S. should have stepped in by now and tried to influence Gliebe to capitulate to the board of directors' guidance, but he obviously has too much at stake to oppose Gliebe and risk his position as media director. As more members get disgusted with Gliebe's ridiculous crap and vote with their feet as the above named board members have done, his position can only weaken further. He and his toady crew bear full responsibility for the Alliance's demise and I predict that they will pay dearly for their misdeeds before things play out.

Don't sweat so much over the material losses. I'll publish the books you mention myself, if all else fails, and put the traitors in the position of having to come after me in a goddamned JOG court room, if that's what they want. That would be their biggest nightmare. Dr. Pierce's works will NEVER be lost, not as long as his SPARK, as he described it, still exists in men like us.

[QUOTE=White Will]No doubt, but without Fred S., Kitti M. and Dr. Bob -- 75% of the legitimate board of directors -- solidly on board as determined plaintiffs, not to mention the need for a competent legal team and the financial resources to prepare a case, shop a venue and all else involved in bringing litigation, I'm afraid the legal window has nearly closed because of the board's weak stand. Kevin S. should have stepped in by now and tried to influence Gliebe to capitulate to the board of directors' guidance, but he obviously has too much at stake to oppose Gliebe and risk his position as media director.

I had some correspondence with Kevin about matters such as the CutThroat CD scandal and similar malfeasance. While he claimed to be interested in knowing the facts of the matter, his reactions gave me the distinct impression that he really did not want to know.

I wonder if there is an attorney out there who would volunteer his services to sue for control of National Alliance assets, assuming that the Directors would be willing to stand as plaintiffs (which I suspect they would, if all else were in order).

Hadding said: "I wonder if there is an attorney out there who would volunteer his services to sue for control of National Alliance assets..."
Victor Gerhard would be a good choice:

1: He's an attorney.

2: He used to work for the NA, so he knows them from the inside out.

3: He doesn't like the NA.

Here's his email: victor@whiterevolution.com
http://www.splcenter.org/images/dynamic/intel/report/8/ir111_gerhard_200x250.jpg
Gimme a call, Hadding. I'll sue those mofos for ya.

I attempted to contact Victor Gerhard some weeks ago, care of Billy Roper, and got no response.