From Paul Grubach

grub222@aol.com

Friends:

I got into an email debate with an obviously educated and informed
Zionist
about the war in Iraq. I would like to share it with you. I list the
Zionist's
claims, and then I rebut them.


1. The Zionist writes: "I appreciate your [Paul Grubach's] response,
and
respect your opinion."


Grubach responds: "Likewise, the feeling is mutual. I [Paul Grubach]
appreciate your [Grubach's Zionist opponent's] response and respect
your opinion."


2. The Zionist writes: "There are 22 Arab/Muslim countries and one
Jewish
country in the Mideast (the lone Christian country, Lebanon is now
Muslim).
That comprises a ratio of over 99% land mass versus less than one
percent.
That's over 500 million people versus just over 6 million people.
That's a sea of
dictatorships and theocracies versus only one democracy (Israel is
still the
only Mideast country where Muslim women can vote, and about 20 percent
of
Israel's population is Arab/Muslim)."


Grubach responds: "Israel is a democracy for Jews only! Period. In
Israel,
Jews created an Athenian democracy for Jews, and second-class
citizenship,
even feudal servitude, for non-Jews. Zionist Israel is a racist,
apartheid
state where Jews dominate and oppress Palestinian Arabs--just look at
the West
Bank and Gaza strip. Indeed, the title of the distinguished Israeli
Jewish-academic's (Uri Davis) book, Israel: An Apartheid State, says
it all. For
example, ninety per cent of Israel's territory has been legally defined
as land that
can be leased and cultivated only by Jews. Key institutions such as the
kibbutz are reserved exclusively for Jews. Israeli Arabs "need not
apply."


So what if Muslim women can vote. The Jews have given them the "right"
to
vote for which group of Zionist Jews will dominate and oppress them.


If the tables were turned, and it was the Palestinians that created a
democracy for Palestinians only, and Jews were the oppressed
second-class citizens,
then the Jews of the world would be the first to condemn such a state
and work
to destroy it."


2. The Zionist wrote: "If they [the Arabs] accepted a Jewish State,
and
stopped working toward the destruction of that state, we [the US] would
not have
to be involved with military aid."


Grubach responds: "Many Arab nations and the PLO originally wanted to
create
a multicultural secular democracy for all, including the Right to
Return for
all 4 million Palestinian Refugees to Their Ancestral Homeland as is
their
Right according to International Law and UN Resolutions. The Jews
should see
nothing wrong with this. After all, most Jewish-Zionist groups are
among the most
ardent promoters of racially integrated, multicultural secular states
everywhere in the world (except in Israel of course.) The problem is
of course is
that most Jewish-Zionists are hypocrites that operate with hypocritical
double
standards.


The Arabs were out to destroy the ethnically segregated, apartheid
Israel,
where Palestinian Arabs are oppressed second-class citizens in their
own
ancestral homeland. Once again, if the tables were turned and it was
the
Palestinians that created an apartheid state where the Palestinians
oppressed and
brutalized Jews, the Jews of the world would be the first to try to
destroy such a
state."


3. The Zionist wrote: "You are absolutely correct when you say that a
pro-Israel lobby works in Washington. It is to defend Israel, but also
to
strengthen the relationship between the two countries (agricultural
technology and
medical technology to the US to name two examples). If it [the
invasion of Iraq]
was solely to defend Israel, then the attack would have been against
Iran,
Syria or even Hamas/Palestinian authority - all are direct enemies of
Israel, and
make no mistake about it in their actions (and words as below)."



Grubach responds: "This is patently misleading. Zionism cannot get the
US to
destroy all of Israel's enemies all at once. They realize that they
must get
the US to destroy Israel's enemies "piecemeal," one by one. Hussein's
Iraq
was the most dangerous enemy of Israel and Zionism at the time, and
ardent
Jewish-Zionists realized that he must be "the first to go." Indeed,
Jewish-Zionist advisors--like Paul Wolfwowitz--of the Zionist stooge in
the White House,
George W. Bush, were planning a US attack upon Iraq long before Bush
was elected
president. And now, Jewish and Gentile Zionist
neo-conservatives--associates
of the Zionist lobby--are talking about "regime changes" for Iran and
Syria.
When Iraq is finished, they will prod the US to destroy the rest of
Israel's
enemies.


Contrary to what you say, the primary and dominant purpose of the
Zionist
lobby in the US is to work for the best interests of Israel and
Zionism. By
getting the US entangled with the interests of Israel, the Zionist
lobby is making
the US a hated entity all over the world. The Zionist lobby is an
albatross
around the neck of the American people."


4. The Zionist writes: "While you think the war in Iraq is for Israel,
others believe it is Cheney's Halliburton, while others believe it is
for Bush to
look the tough guy he wants to convey ("war time" President). Others
believe
that democratization of Iraq can have positive influences on
surrounding
countries - not just 'Zionist' Jews, but pro-democracy Arabs (click on
the section
on Hisham Kassem of the Cairo Times)"


Grubach responds: "One of the main reason for the war in Iraq is in
fact
Israel! (See http://www.vho.org/GB/c/PG/230103.html) Indeed, Jewish
General
Wesley Clark, the former Supreme Commander of Nato, acknowledged that
President
George W. Bush's war plans serve, first and foremost, Jewish-Zionist
interests.
He stated: "Those who favor this attack now tell you candidly, and
privately,
that it is probably true that Saddam Hussein is no threat to the United
States. But they are afraid at some point he might decide if he had a
nuclear weapon
to use it against Israel." (See
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,11538,777700,00.html)"


5. The Zionist wrote: "Good luck to you, and remember that there is
more to
life than message boards, politics and war. Keep family, exercise and
your
work above your 'beefs', and you will be a happier person for it."


Grubach responds: "Likewise. I wish you all the best in life. I hope
you
and your family are always happy.


And yes, when we break the negative and destructive influence of the
Jewish-Zionist lobby over the US, me and the rest of the world will be
much happier.


Good luck, and God bless you."