I don’t agree with the idea of rule by the intelligentsia as an artistic, social and political elite. The core values of honor, courage, heroism and race, as well as the avoidance of luxury, are healthier than the devotion to merely intellectual pursuits. I value intellectual pursuits, it’s mainly what I do, but on the pyramid of values the military values are more important to long term survival.

Intellectual pursuits, which include science and technology, as well as art and philosophy, must be pursued in ways that affirm and advance the race. Intellectuals can have wide freedom during the creative stage of their work, but then the finished work must affirm the race and not enfeeble the race. More freedom than this is not freedom but license.

This understanding is connected to the idea that before a racial religion, yet alone a state, can advance we require men with these virtues, which are best taught and advanced through the warrior ethos. The luxury of intellectualism can enfeeble society when the military values are not there directing us. If the military values were gone tomorrow anarchy would rise, along with the defeat and possible extinction of our race.

I believe we can attain Godhood through the successful evolution of our race, but to do so we will need the virtues and ideals of the warrior ethos.

The members of this forum more or less agree with this grouping of values, and that’s what I like about this forum. Your comments on culture are better, more right on, than any overly intellectual academic---although some of you might be at least lurking academics.

have you been reading julius evola? he made extensive commentary on the leadership of the kshatriya vs the leadership of the brahmin. which is essentially what youre talking about. Revolt Against the Modern World has quite a bit about this.

I'm with Evola on that point for sure. Kshatriya all the way.

Note that Siddhartha was kshatriya caste.

Bushido is an interesting study and I know many of you here are familiar with it. Anybody read Inazo Nitobe's book by that name?

IMO "martial virtues" would be a better phrasing than military values.

have you been reading julius evola?...

I got a bit turned off Evola when I realized that he was a religious dualist and I didn’t read the book you mentioned, but I will try to pick up a copy. Julius Evola was way ahead of his time and a courageous philosopher who should be read. But the evolutionary nature of the cosmos, and the material path to Godhood clashes with Evola’s separating the spiritual from the material, as the Gnostics do, and the Vedic thinkers before them, who he studied.

I identify Godhood with all nature and evolution whereas Evola rejects material life and evolution; the science of evolution, for him, is ignorant of occult Indo-Aryan Tradition and so he rejects it. In the White Temple, Godhood is the highest evolution of the material, which we sometimes call Materiaspiritus.

I can affirm Evola’s ideal of heroic values and his anti-egalitarian, antidemocratic spirit. I also agree with his view of the leveling down aspects of Christianity. Do you?

For a lazy guy such as myself, how about giving me the geist of the kshatriya stuff so I may appear all-knowing when I mention it to others later on?

No, seriously, I would like to know, but I have read so much nationalist literature already, so to make it all a quicker process I hope I can learn through questions now instead.

I have been reading the B.Gita and it is almost as if the later parts were tinkered around with at a later point. The start is good but then it gets waterdown. And two faced.

I think what you are sensing as “two-faced” might somehow be related to the loss of power of the kshatriyas, the warriors, to the brahmana caste, when the nomadic warriors settled into states. The brahmana’s reinterpreted military actions in religious terms, the brahmans made rituals out of warfare to stop the dealing in war and blood. Then the disenfranchised warriors began cultivating other religions. Buddha was the son of a dispossessed kshatriya prince.

I want to reaffirm the warriors. I think early Nietzsche did this too. The usurpation of the warriors by priests and the intelligentsia took place in the history of most Nordic derived people. The Spartans lasted longer because they affirmed the warriors. Establish an evolutionary religion with the warriors and then you have something.

For a lazy guy such as myself, how about giving me the geist of the kshatriya stuff so I may appear all-knowing when I mention it to others later on?...

Each Aryan tribe in ancient India was headed by a military chieftain. He was probably elected to this position by an assembly of warriors. The term for warrior comes from the term kshatriya.

Attached to every Indo-Aryan military fraternity were shamans or priests who advised and who would propitiate the Gods. These shamans were the source of the brahmans in India. They evolved, or devolved, into a closed casts of literati, the carriers of Indian intellectual culture.

See my above comment to DR ANTICHRIST.

Interesting. And how was power handed over to the Brahmans? Were they actually allowed to rule the country like kings? Weren't there kings to take care of business?

Btw, how far back in time are we talking, approximately? And is this all of India, or just the northern part?

Interesting. And how was power handed over to the Brahmans? Were they actually allowed to rule the country like kings? Weren't there kings to take care of business?

Btw, how far back in time are we talking, approximately? And is this all of India, or just the northern part?

The way I understand it, when patrimonial states developed out of tribal republics the kshatriyas lost their top position to the brahman caste, who became royal administrators. I don’t know all the territories in India involved.

Hinduism rose from the various adaptations of the Brahmanic priesthood to local cults---Vedic gods married to local goddesses etc.

The point here is that India’s capacity to resist foreign invasion decreased as Hinduism became the dominant Indian religion---from about 184BC onward.

A related book on this that you might want to check out: "Religious Mythology and The Art Of War" by James H. Aho.

have you been reading julius evola? he made extensive commentary on the leadership of the kshatriya vs the leadership of the brahmin. which is essentially what youre talking about. Revolt Against the Modern World has quite a bit about this...

I was hoping you would comment a bit on Evola's view of the kshatriya, since I didn't read the book.

I read some reviews (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/089281506X/qid=1084796796/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1__i1_xgl14/002-2105930-6400813?v=glance&s=books) of Revolt Against the Modern World at Amazon now, flawed by the usual "eee, he was a fascist, but he wasn't really a fascist, so we must forgive him." Anyway, what is this about solar and lunar religions? One reviewer writes: "Evola develops a myth of man's origins in a Golden Age, a Hyperborean race at the pole. A conflict developed between North and South, and between 'solar' and 'lunar' forms of religion. This conflict was at the heart of medieval Catholicism, and was reflected in the growing separation between priest and ruler."

what is this about solar and lunar religions?..."[/I][/B]

Although it is fascinating to read this stuff, and I do, it seems to me that the standard Western version of these ancient times is a clearer way to understand the conflict between North and South. From the steppes of somewhere in what is now southern Russia came the Nordics and they conquered everywhere they went with their solar “male” religions, among other things. The old European civilization, which had lasted 3000 years, and had lunar Goddess-affirming religions, disintegrated with the arrival of the Battle-axe wielding and culture-bearing Nordics. The Nordics then founded all the civilizations of the West, which are now declining.

What happened before the Nordics settled in southern Russia is hazy. Before the studies of Western anthropology, and other sciences, people made attempts to figure it out. Eastern religions had their own versions of history, which people like Evola and Blavatsky studied. Was there an ancient home in a tropical Greenland where Giant Atlantians lived, of whom we are the descendants?

Interesting speculations, and I’m interested in them, but as I was saying in an above comment, Evola’s doctrine of two natures, distinguishing the spiritual from the material, and his defining a superior realm of “Being” from an “inferior” realm of “becoming” is the standard religious dualism that has made atheists out of many men. Darwin changed this dualism in my opinion. The White Temple sees an evolutionary progression all the way to Godhood, but a Godhood that is the zenith of the material world, not a spiritual world removed from the material world.

Also, we don’t blame the female aspect for our problems, as Evola does, we blame the weakness of the male.

Maybe AE or someone else will have more information on Evola for you, but this is my general way of thinking about him.

well, Evola wrote quite a bit on the rivalry between brahmanism and kshatirya, but I dont think he depreciated the "contemplative path" vs the "path of action," he just identified himself with the path of action. and for us as "WN" we are the same in that respect would you not agree?
brahmanism has its place.

so too does the lunar phase of the cycle. Evola clearly glorified the solar phase as the golden age, but Bachofen suggested something different.

German anthropologist and philosopher JJ Bachofen "Mtyth Religion and Motherright" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0710029799/qid=1084810565/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-9826083-6279005?v=glance&s=books, was introduced to me by the musician behind "Dresden" and the album "call of the blood" which is probably still available from Resistance to the extent they are still filling orders. LOL Once you have got your arms around Evola, Bachofen is required reading and will subtly deepen your understanding of our cultural archetypes in a way that Evola's polemical style will not have acccomplished.

Anyway, do read up on Evola and dont pass too much judgment along the way, because it is a very large opus and worth study not just "revolte" but also the book on Buddhism "Doctrine of Awakening" and even the book on the Graal-- I cant recall that title.

Man among the Ruins talks much about politics if you're interested. Evola traveled much in Germany during the war as a guest speaking sponsored by the SS. AFter the war he was alleged to be "connected" to various fascist incidents but was acquitted.

The book "Cavalcare le Tigre" was the last to make it into translation, and I find it worthwhile for the chapter on Nietzche alone. Reminded me of William Simpson's discussion of Nietzche and Jesus.

The only book I wont recommend is the book on magic. Not unless you liked Carlos Casteneda. There is a nexus there not worth explaining here unless somebody has read Casteneda too.

A list of Evolas books:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dstripbooks%26field-keywords%3Djulius%2520evola/103-9826083-6279005

[QUOTE=Antiochus Epiphanes]...
brahmanism has its place....

As long as the justice-religion function was closely connected to the arms function the race was strong, (see Georges Dumezil’s research on Twin rule) but as the classes became more pronounced these two moved away from one another leading to decline. Nietzsche had a lot of negative things to say about the priest class too, as you will remember.

I'm not familiar with George Dumezil, I'll have to look into that. Care to expand on that comment?

I'm not familiar with George Dumezil, I'll have to look into that. Care to expand on that comment?

Georges Dumezil was French philologists and historian of religions. He died about 15 years ago. He studied the cultural background common to Indo- European peoples. You can find translations of his work here and there.

One of his main studies concentrated on the rise and fall of classes in Indo- European history. The way I interpret it, a racial tribe of warrior leaders began to share duties, and Odin (Jupiter, Mitra) took over the justice-religion function, while Thor (Mars, Indra ) took the strength and war (arms) function, since one faction could not cover everything well. This was the basic leadership aristocracy.

Into this twin ruling dynamic you add the conquered peoples, who became the third class. When the conquered people didn’t share the same race they were put into a fourth class, the untouchables. All the Indo-European myths share these same three classes. I would call this the springtime period, when the arms function was connected to the justice-religion function.

Then the classes became more pronounced, the priest class developed away from the twin-ruling function and away from the warrior function, and the third class also grew in power. If the conquered people were not of the same race even more serious problems arose. I would call this the winter period. This eventually leads to the destruction of the three-class system, and the down fall of the race and culture.