Let's try our first moderated discussion on the subject of David Duke, the man and his approach.

At the last minute, one of our new moderators, Chain, offered to share costs on a late trip to New Orleans to the Duke Conference. Yesterday, attempting to make reservations, he was told by James Kelso, "Charles A Lindbergh" at Stormfront, that we were unwelcome. After a bunch of calling, I was finally able to get through to Kelso, and after some hostile back and forth, he set up a phone call from David Duke, whom I spoke with for a couple hours until his battery ran out.

A few quick impression of Duke, and then I would like yours.

-- Duke said he felt that VNN's approach would clash with his, and I took this to mean he would feel more comfortable if we were not there. As he is the guest of honor, I told him to rest easy, if he feels that way, it is better that we not attend. Duke is far more like me in personality and background than like Kelso or Strom or Gliebe. What appears to me to be the situation, and which I told Duke, is that his guys are feeding him lies about VNN and me and what we are doing. He feels strong loyalty to Don Black, and seems to believe that we have attacked Black. I said, I don't think I've ever written a word about Black that was critical until I saw his whining that we weren't kicked off the same server he was. Not only was that childish and inappropriate, it wasn't true. Anyway, I conveyed to him that he needs to read us and judge us for himself, just the way he wants to be treated, and take the well-poisoners with a shaker of salt. I believe he will do this.

-- He believes we on our side should go our own way, and not worry about others, and in the long run this will produce the best results.

-- He's taken with the idea that our cause can sweep over the Aryan world in a very brief time, using the example of Islam and the Arabs in the 7th century, which covered their world in a generation.

-- His books are enjoying huge success in Europe, and he's working on a new one putting forth a new racial creed, something that can attract and inspire our people.

-- He takes a loose view of our side, and refers to it as the right. He says Francis is absolutely a racialist, and that Jared Taylor is not insidious, but confining his work to race. He sees it as newcomers picking up some race here, some jews there, and pretty soon grasping the whole problem, and so it is better not to criticize those on our side.

-- He said he has 20 good years left. He's 53, and in very good shape, takes vitamins, and has come out of prison stronger and more determined than ever.
It sounds like he's not going to formally ally with any group, nor build his own, but write and speak and travel. He will work with different people and groups on a project basis, and said he would look over VNN and see whether there were ways we could work together.

I'd like to hear some of your responses to this information, and I'll throw in some more stuff later.

I'd like to straightaway hear more of what he and you talked about.

Also, Alex- a number of VNN posters have "attacked" Don with photoshop and the like, and that is the crux of that specific charge, I think.

I'd like to straightaway hear more of what he and you talked about.

Also, Alex- a number of VNN posters have "attacked" Don with photoshop and the like, and that is the crux of that specific charge, I think.

Well, I guess that would make me the number one offender. I'm the one who initiated that entire thread with the Photoshop pictures. I also made and posted the most, but it was all done simply for humor. If I'm a boon to VNN you can get rid of me if you want.

I'd like to straightaway hear more of what he and you talked about.

Also, Alex- a number of VNN posters have "attacked" Don with photoshop and the like, and that is the crux of that specific charge, I think.

Ok, well, the horror! I ignore stuff like that myself. Duke, like me, is instinctively libertarian. By contrast, the leadership of the NA side is instinctively totalitarian. I think Duke would be extremely foolish to formally ally with NA, and I think there's no chance he will ever join them, let alone lead them, though they may work together on certain things. The irony Duke may or may not grasp is that the NA acts just like the jews it criticizes: it calls for unity and tolerates absolutely no criticism of itself where it has the power to suppress it, meanwhile, behind the scenes, it smears and lies. The NA is also like the jews in showing absolutely no gratitude toward those who help it. It is ungracious and small in its actions and mindset. I think as a group the NA's leaders exemplify Nietzsche's warning that in chasing monsters beware you do not become monsters. There is a world of difference in mentality between Duke and Strom. Strom will never be attractive to large numbers of people because, obeying the rules of this sub-forum, he is weird. Not in a good way. His editorial work is high quality, and he deserves high praise for National Vanguard, site and magazine. If he were able to tolerate the fact that other men have skills he does not, we could get along with him. But to accept him as leader -- never. Strom belongs under a better man's control. He may even recognize that. His instinct is right in trying to replace Gliebe with Duke, but Duke would be a fool to go that route, and he's not a fool.

I felt inspired, listening to Duke. The truth is, I felt that he should want me to come to his conference and speak there, because I can get people to feel that vision. But, at the moment he's wary. But he has the correct view, which is that we need to stop fighting over crumbs and look at the huge feast of hundreds of millions of unawakened Aryans our message rightly resounds with.

It looks like to me the field is open for somebody to put together a party or faction representing the majority of awakened Whites, who recognize the need for racial dictatorship, but below that favor decentralization, which is liberty in practice.

Well, I guess that would make me the number one offender. I'm the one who initiated that entire thread with the Photoshop pictures. I also made and posted the most, but it was all done simply for humor. If I'm a boon to VNN you can get rid of me if you want.

No, we want you here. It is a pitfall of White psychology that we start to believe we're heroes, beyond criticism because we resist tyrants. We aren't. The fact that we are unfairly suppressed and resist it may speak well of us, but nobody is beyond criticism, and anyone who acts like it should be laughed at and avoided. No need to poke at Black unduly, we do respect what he has done with Stormfront, no matter it has headed in the wrong direction of late, thanks in part to his association with men like Kelso, but Don can develop some thicker skin, it'll be good for him.

Georgie, I know full well some people here do not like Don, or MuadDib, JJT, CAL etc. There was the Bill White-initiated trouble last summer, and it was bad. I didn't like it at the time- I really did not, but what could I do?

It's not a healthy state when no criticism can be levied against any WN or org. It really is not. Some people on posting on both boards regularly rag atheists and Matt Hale- saying how stupid Matt was to say what he did to Ebola etc. I guess that's a valid criticism, and I consider Matt a personal leader of mine, but, even so- I don't jump in there screaming and denouncing everyone who has posted that thought about Matt.

They have said atheist and/or pagan racists are "trash", "ignorant", a "discredit to the movement", "cultists", "hobbyists", "sideshows" etc. The fact is, a heck of a lot of White Racists are not christians. Do we feel the need to rise up and denounce those who impugn our beliefs? Maybe. Now and then. But what's the big deal? People are going to disagree bigtime on religion. Funny thing is- a lot of people saying these things are not themselves christians. Not by a long shot! But the words are maybe designed to influence "moderate" relative newcomers to racialism or the parts of our lives (e.g. our extended families, ceremonies etc.) being nominally christianic- Christmas with family, christian baptismals, burials etc.

I do not agree with very bad character assassinations of prominent WN's. I think some awful things have been publically said about Strom which go way, way beyond the bare facts of his chronological comings and goings into and from certain levelled positions within the NA.

I didn't like or believe Bill White's writings about Strom.

My satires of CAL hardly qualify as "character assassinations". Unless one is hyper-touchingly thin-skinned.

Well, I guess that would make me the number one offender. I'm the one who initiated that entire thread with the Photoshop pictures. I also made and posted the most, but it was all done simply for humor. If I'm a boon to VNN you can get rid of me if you want.

Do you remember how many of the SF crowd freaked out when I brought up the real reason he went to Dominica to reinstate obese negro Prime Minister Patrick John?

http://www.thegrenadarevolutiononline.com/page17a.html

http://www.thegrenadarevolutiononline.com/patrickjohn.jpg

" . . . the primary purpose of the invasion was not to establish a base of operations for white supremacists (although this was a secondary concern), but rather to set-up a series of lucrative businesses, including cocaine manufacturing plants, casinos, hotels, brothels, and a gunrunning operation, and to exploit the country's labour and natural resources for the benefit of the mercenaries and the financial backers. Considering the size of Dominica, which is only 300 square miles, and its limited military and police force, the coup was achievable.”

Hell, I was banned from SF because I might have posted it over there. Was curious as to the reaction it would get, especially if I posted it at about 3a.m. in several different sections.

I don't understand the problem, if he wanted to take over some tinpot Caribbean nation to set up brothels and process cocaine...why not just say so? He did his prison time already, no trouble could come of it.

The racialist theory stands on its own and needs no leaders, just propagators.

And voters.

A "boon" (not the black kind) is a benefit or blessing.


boon: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=boon

Good catch on that - Georgie, not a native English speaker, can learn, as we all can. I'm going to watch my spelling and punctuation in this forum. I hope you all will, although I'm not going to make it a hard and fast rule like with the others. You can always check at dictionary.com.


Duke, Black et al come off as narcissistic and thin-skinned.


I don't know about Black, as I've never talked to him. Duke certainly promotes himself, but I think it's good self-promotion. If not him, who? as the jews say.
I can tell you very directly from my own experience that you can't get unalloyed virtues in humans except Jesus. And he wasn't a real person. To have the fortitude to resist and persist, as Duke has proven he has, in the face of combined Republican, Democrat and jew-media attacks for for decades, you have to be awfully darn sure of yourself. Itz like, you want all this good stuff and humility too? And perfect private morals too? It doesn't work like that.

I know this from my own experience. When you've written an editorial and your whole newsroom hates you, the deans and college president write in to affirm that you're an "example of how far we have to go," how do you react? You have to have a huge scoop of "xxxx-you" deep inside. When almost everybody is against you and the ones who aren't fear to join you, how are you NOT going to develop an arrogance? Otherwise you'll be washed away.


This is sort of related---Are Duke and his followers taking the literary club circuit route and leaving the "heavy lifting", i.e. public rallies to VNN and White Revolution? How does Duke stand on this?

Keystone

Good question. Duke sighed when I asked him about building up a group. I know that sigh from having printed folded stuffed mailed millions of newsletters -- there's so much administrative overhead that running any kind of a group is not something you want to do without a great deal of thought beforehand, and the guarantee of sufficient lubricant -- i.e., money -- to make the machine work. I believe Duke will have his website updated more frequently than when he was in prison. He said his numbers only went down 25%, and he attributed this to a great, worldwide rising tide of interest in our
Aryan truths, about Israel, race, and everything else. As for rallies, I don't know.

I asked him if he intended to run for president. He said he doesn't believe in running to run, just to have your name on the ballot, but to win. And that means a specific campaign for a specific seat. I don't think he'll announce anything like that, although he agrees that a candidate focused specifically on the invasion from Mexico could make a showing.

I asked him if he were going back to Russia. He didn't say he would, but he did say he is much better respected over there by people in official positions -- univerisity administrators, politicians and the like. He has taught and lectured over there extensively. My impression is he is going to work on his book and speak publicly wherever he can. I would not call that "literary club" at all. The guy is still in the game in a big way. He thinks he has twenty good years left, and wants to go out in a blaze of glory. I don't see any reason he's wrong with this. He is probably the best known jew-namer in the world, and he's going right back at it, and he gets nothing but praise from me for that. He's about 95% positive and uplifting, speaking about the great eugenic future we're on the cusp of, but then he'll thrown in Southern-inflected barrage about the need to "expose these sons of bitches [jews] who are trying to destroy our people."

The guy's on the right track. He's operating globally, and must think in those terms. And he's not hiding on a mountain, but getting out there and mixing with people, making it happen.

Draco, I would have no problem in participating in a coup against a black gov't. somewhere in the world, though I couldn't participate in a staging from the US, as that is illegal.

That info about Don is generally known by people who read extensively. I see the original source author is pictured with Don and Duke, and that his article is used by permission of a Guelph, Ontario Multi Cult org. Did the author inject false info into the basic gist of the story? Did Ann Wilder, in her rewrite, do that? Why would Don and Duke have spoken with Lauder?
Appreciation to Matthew A. Lauder and the Guelph & District Multicultural Centre for permission to reproduce the above portion of the report and most of the photos. Link for more information about Matthew Lauder's work Check CARN-IB

The domain, thegrenadarevolutiononline.com is registered as follows:
http://allwhois.com/cgi-bin/allwhois.cgi

Ann Wilder is associated with some "Meditation Center in NC, maybe a pine cabin on the side of a mountain LOL, cause her "Mountainside Academy has no
web location. See bottom of this post- she is also associated with a "Mark Goldstein" in a "writing project"- a SPLC or ADL frontmoneyed org? http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:fod5OWW0QpIJ:www.main.nc.us/cml/new_citizen/v2n1/win94b.html+ann+wilder%2Basheville&hl=en
Ann Wilder, Mediation Center;

Registrant:
Mountainside Academy (WN-D-92654934)
34 Harvard Place
Asheville, NC 28806-2532
US

Domain Name: THEGRENADAREVOLUTIONONLINE.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Wilder, Ann E. (18485050I) annew@buncombe.main.nc.us
34 Harvard Place
Asheville, NC 28806-2532
US
828-254-1379 fax: 123 123 1234

Record expires on 25-Dec-2004.
Record created on 25-Dec-1999.
Database last updated on 28-May-2004 17:36:43 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.MAIN.NC.US 209.192.109.135
NS4.EDELTACOM.COM 216.248.176.21[/quote]
http://www.ncpress.net/contact.html

Contact Information
Feedback and General Inquiries: fire@ncpress.net

Mark Goldstein, Executive Director: mark@ncpress.net

Ann Wilder, Archive Consultant: ann@ncpress.net

Fund for Investigative Reporting and Editing
2 Wall Street, Suite 203
Asheville, NC 28801

Phone: (828) 259-9179

I honestly think that Linder and Chain should go attend the event this weekend. For too long the "movement" has been tarnished with pointless and self serving drama. You have many different characters spreading rumors (true and untrue..) about one another. The internet has greatly worsened this problem. The best way how to deal with this problem, is to all get together. I really doubt that if Linder and Chain attend, CAL would tell them both to f*** off. Look, I am not condemning or taking any positions about any of the rumors and disunity in the movement. All I am saying is the best way how to resolve such issues, is to have everyone get together. Face to face meetings, usually will kill most of it.

I honestly think that Linder and Chain should go attend the event this weekend. For too long the "movement" has been tarnished with pointless and self serving drama. You have many different characters spreading rumors (true and untrue..) about one another. The internet has greatly worsened this problem. The best way how to deal with this problem, is to all get together. I really doubt that if Linder and Chain attend, CAL would tell them both to f*** off. Look, I am not condemning or taking any positions about any of the rumors and disunity in the movement. All I am saying is the best way how to resolve such issues, is to have everyone get together. Face to face meetings, usually will kill most of it.

You're right, generally speaking. But a few points specific to this instance:

1) Duke thinks his and our approaches clash. Right or wrong, whether his view changes after he reads through VNN, as I believe it will, that's how he feels today. Since it's his party, I'm going to respect that.

2) My main interest in going was listening to Duke. I got what I wanted to know from talking to him last night. Speaking and networking would be good, but there will be other times and places.

3) I can put the time into VNN, instead of not updating for five days when I'm on road.

4) save money for future projects.

5) I can use road time to write essay addressing the same thing the conference speakers will address. Which I will do. I will write a reaction to what Duke says, and what the rest of the speakers say.

Bottom line is just what Duke says; no whining, just do it yourself better if you think someone's going about it wrong. The minute I feel the need to build my own party or group or business or whatever it is, I will do that. VNN will always be big, never small. Our thick-skinned, voluptuous Aryan questing will trump that of the thin-skinned totalitarians.

You're right, generally speaking. But a couple points: 1) Duke thinks our approaches clash. Right or wrong, whether his view changes after he reads through VNN, that's how he feels today. Since it's his party, I'm going to respect that. 2) my main interest in going was listening to Duke. I got what I wanted to know from talking to him last night. Speaking and networking would be good, but there will be other times and places.


If you do not mind my asking, how well did you know David Duke before he went to jail. It sounds as if most of his opinion about you came was second hand, which is probably why he believes your approach clashes with his. In my experience, the best way how to deal with this type of rumor problem, is to physically be around all the people involved. But as you said, there will be many more events in the future and other opportunities.

Btw, have you ever considered setting up your own quasi-group in your immediate area?

I hope nationally it gets back to how it was at the rally on the capitol lawn.

Seems like everyone was pretty much together then, with only a few snipers complaining later on about swastika flags and tattoos abounding.

I'd personally like to see all groups co-operating. I don't like that the BNP is running a jew, and I don't mind saying so, but I won't go on a never-ending tirade against the BNP, as I think that's counterproductive. But I'm not afraid to criticize them either.

It's not going to help our planetary cause to spend an inordinate amount of time running each other into the ground.

I'll still going to show up for some NSM events, and wear a giant, center-chested swastika t-shirt, even though they are upset with WR cause Billy asked them to come, but not wear swastikas, for this one event.

We can't all be all things to all people. I certainly don't consider myself a moderate racist, but I don't want to be captious against others. I had honestly felt until recently that the National Alliance didn't want to cotton as members any who used the crudest of racial invective in public. If you look at my titles and stuff in the NNN Reporters' Forum, and from a few years ago on Stormfront, you can see that that's racial "vileness."

It's maybe harder than I thought in trying to keep good relations with everybody. Not perfect relations, but "talking", essentially cooperative racist relationships.

Going over the same ground- I can understand how some KKK might not like Creators, but, you know, the KKK I've met are respectful of the differences and vice-versa.

Think how pleased the ADL and SPLC must be that this org/website quarreling has seemingly become so rooted.

One more thing. Young skinhead and hammerhead racists are very, very important to the future, in my opinion. Because they are young, they may not be the most polished in social niceties, nor do they have a lifetime of living and reading behind them. But they'll be facing the expansion of the dark races, concomitant with the commonness of the racial radicalization of Whites (we hope). They are working class guys. So if they are rowdy in their youth, is this good or bad? I think it's mostly good. It's good that they are around. We should find ways to include them, and not just tell them to clean up their act and join AmRen (or what have you?).

If you do not mind my asking, how well did you know David Duke before he went to jail. It sounds as if most of his opinion about you came was second hand, which is probably why he believes your approach clashes with his. In my experience, the best way how to deal with this type of rumor problem, is to physically be around all the people involved. But as you said, there will be many more events in the future and other opportunities.


I had never met Duke or talked to him before. I had read his "My Awakening" and his online articles.

You are correct, I believe his impression of VNN and me comes primarily from Jamie Kelso, Don Black, and the NA clique. They are telling him that evil VNN people are attacking all the Good people in the movement, and that we're undoing the effort of their heroic clean-up crew, as they think themselves. Fact is, I come from richer, better educated background than all these people. They're judging me based on the types they're familiar with, which I don't fall into. Paranoia, insecurity, hostility to criticism -- all the stigmata of inferiority, as Mencken put it. These they exhibit in spades. You can't make a movement out of paranoids, weasels and lemmings. You have to go forth in public boldly, as Duke has done, and as VNN and White Revolution do. Duke is not a cultist, and for that reason, I don't see him teaming up with NA for anything substantial.

Like I say, we had a very good conversation. He's far more like me in mentality and temperament than the Stroms. I believe I successfully planted a seed of doubt in Duke's mind about James Kelso, who may be of instrumental value to Duke at the moment, but who is, as I told Kelso, a lying weasel. He's the type of guy who tolerates insults to his face. He's a flitty, middle-aged phil-donahue newcover of 'unclear antecedents,' and I have no respect for him. I expect Duke will learn the truth soon enough.


Btw, have you ever considered setting up your own quasi-group in your immediate area?

Not under current circumstances. But circumstances change all the time.

I'm very angry that Duke was pressured to make Alex and Chain "personae non grata." I'm sure that this wasn't Duke's decision, but a result of pressure. He's just out of the joint and doesn't know what's going on, and his best friend went up to him and told him to do this. Oh well.

For me I am forced to take sides. This is way way uncool. And I do officially take sides. I take Alex's side, without reserve.

This doesn't mean I'm going to start infighting, which is infantile. I'm not going to say a discouraging word about those who are working to keep Alex out of the loop.

However, I am building my own thing here; several things, in fact. The degree of my public activism and public posting is inversely proportional to the stuff I am doing behind the scenes. All legal, all non-violent, and all innocuous, aside from the fact that it is a known WN doing them.

All I can say to Alex's enemies is that they will be kept "out of the loop" for whatever I accomplish. That's all I can threaten, and right now it seems like nothing . Feel free to scoff. I stayed more or less neutral until May 28, 2004. Now I declare publicly -- I take the side of Alex Linder, and say that the enemies of Linder are acting like a bunch of jews. Y'all know who you are.

Rob

Rob, I don't think it was Don who kept me personally out. That was not Don.

I do think David Duke's conference will be a huge national success, and that the entire worldwide White movement will get a big media and membership bounce. That's great!

Alex, thanks lots for filling us in. If you didn't, then who? I was curious about Duke and what direction he would go in after his release. He sounds like a good guy.

Blondie

You know what? You blow it when you attack other WN leaders. Get a clue people. Insults sting and they are often never forgiven. The vnners have been permanently caste out of that circle. That's the way it is.

You know what? You blow it when you attack other WN leaders. Get a clue people. Insults sting and they are often never forgiven. The vnners have been permanently caste out of that circle. That's the way it is.
I tend to agree with you. I wonder then- is this your or one of your allies threads?
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=124687&highlight=jeff+schoep
I have seen people using NSM imagery on this board.

Having met NSM leader Jeff Schoep, and knowing that he has 5 (I've heard he's up to 7 now) or more illigitimate kids who are all on welfare. I can't see why anyone would support him. When I met him, he actually joked about his lack of involvement as a parent.

Now, there are other reason why this guy could never possibly be the leader of a viable organization or be taken seriously. However, I'll just focus on the welfare issue. Anyone, including whites, who father illigitimate kids that grow up on welfare are deviants. The fact that he has so many makes it even more disgusting.

Jeff Schoep is the kind of person that decent white people should be disgusted by.

Or maybe this one, by a guy I've never met, Magnus Volk, but who says he considers me a friend (as I do him), about a guy I have met and hung out with who is also a friend, Hal Turner, and who himself has been a very big promoting booster of the National Alliance, I am proud to say.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=128975&highlight=hal+turner

My friend Magnus Volk rags Hal Turner pretty regularly on Stormfront. CAL is not too hyper about it (in fact, I've never heard him object) nor is anybody else objecting. Keep in mind, Hal is a huge booster of National Alliance and is welcomed at their events. Hal often speaks well of the National Alliance on his show. There are scores upon scores upon scores of of posts on Stormfront criticizing Hal. Why doesn't CAL wade through them and pull them offline? I am not freaking out about it. Even though Hal is my friend, I don't think- so far as I know- Hal is frantically PMing Don Black every 15 minutes about the matter. Hal's a real macho "man's man" kind of guy.
When people have asked Hal about his choice to do the show, he often talks about the raw deal he got from his former employer -- either quit the show or he can no longer work here. Hal said he had to chose between either his job or his "First Amendment rights" which is incorrect (and I think Hal knows it); his First Amendment rights weren't violated; it wasn't the state that was compelling him to chose between his job and his show; it was his former employer under pressure from people offended by his show.

Great, so Hal chose his hobby over his job. Then why did the show's costs increase so exponentially since he made the decision to leave his job? That's a curious question and one I don't think Hal has ever answered.

Normally I would like to wish Hal well in his new pursuit as he is a very talented guy and covers a lot of interesting stories, even though some of which turn out to be myths or urban legends. Given his current grandstanding and given his past record of theatrics, I am convinced what we are going to see is more or less of the same thing...

The major schism between white nationalists today is this: whether or not to use Nazi symbolism. THAT, more than anything else, is why there is so much dissension in our movement. Yes, there are other problems, but the overwhelming issue is whether or not white nationalists will - or will not -abandon the swastika, the Nazi flag, the Hitler worship, and all the other trappings of the Nazi era.

David Duke once wore a Nazi uniform. But when he realized how counter-productive it was, he abandoned it. David Duke once wore the white hood of the KKK. But when he realized how counter-productive it was, he abandoned it. Duke finally came to realize that costume Nazis and costume Klansmen were not the way to go. Unfortunately, so many others have not. Even now, White Revolution uses a Nazi flag on the front page of its website. Even now, the National Alliance permits Nazi flags to be flown at its rallies.

Today, David Duke uses no Nazi flags. He realizes how poison they are to our progress. To our detriment, so many others have not....

That is the dividing line - a movement defined by Nazi symbols, or not. All else is almost incidental.

Sounds like you made the right "call" Alex. Talked to the man himself. Thanks for sharing your impressions of that conversation.

Karl Ramstrom, is Hal Turner wearing Nazi swastikas, or does he sell them through his website? It's OK with me if he does. I like the swastika. Resistance has some good swastika stuff too. I'm glad they're not bending to pressure so far, but are keeping selling those items. Good for Resistance and the National Alliance. But I am worried they may stop.

It's been suggested before, but I think a White Million Man March on DC with Duke at the head, demanding one of three goals,

A) Closing of the US southern border

B) Bringing the troops back from Iraq

C) Bringing the the troops back from Iraq to be put on the southern border

has a good shot. In fact, I'm certain we could achieve one of the above if he agreed and we got enough publicity.

Doppelhaken,

A few questions about this idea. First, assuming David Duke agrees to lead a march on DC and it attracts extensive, 'round-the-clock media coverage, what evidence is there to suggest we even have a million white nationalists in the US to rally? Second, I don't think closing our southern border is really a worthwhile goal anymore for the simple reason that even if it were closed, the birth-rates of the non-whites who already live here would eventually reduce whites to a minority. So by closing the border, aren't we only forestalling the inevitable?

Carl

I tend to agree with you. I wonder then- is this your or one of your allies threads?
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=124687&highlight=jeff+schoep

No, I'm generally known as Bardamu.

I see. I was just trying to make the point that there have been some very harsh threads about Schoep, Hal Turner, pagans, KKK etc. at Stormfront, as have there been even more excoriating threads at VNN about others.

In the past 10 months, it's really gotten out of hand. If we all just cool it, things can improve. I believe a lot of the worst sheer negativity comes from guys who aren't a member of any org, but I can't prove it.

We're all never going to be each other's favorite person.

Demanding for the border to be closed would be very popular with most whites. If it were closed, it would be a great beginning for whites in regaining control of America.

I see. I was just trying to make the point that there have been some very harsh threads about Schoep, Hal Turner, pagans, KKK etc. at Stormfront, as have there been even more excoriating threads at VNN about others.

In the past 10 months, it's really gotten out of hand. If we all just cool it, things can improve. I believe a lot of the worst sheer negativity comes from guys who aren't a member of any org, but I can't prove it.

We're all never going to be each other's favorite person.

Well, it is one thing for there to be a harsh thread about so and so, but it is quote another for one leader to attack another. The whole dust up between White, Linder and company contra Stormfront and the NA was a disaster. What was the point anyway of all the attacks on Strom and his wife? There was no point other than out of control exuberence. It seems like out of frustration for not gaining ground politically we turn to devouring ourselves.

I hope nationally it gets back to how it was at the rally on the capitol lawn.

This can happen. It requires two things: 1) better preparation; 2) repetition. The D.C. rally was the latest in a series Billy had organized. I hope we can do a least a quarterly rally in 2005, and before long we can get back to that level.


We can't all be all things to all people. I certainly don't consider myself a moderate racist, but I don't want to be captious against others. I had honestly felt until recently that the National Alliance didn't want to cotton as members any who used the crudest of racial invective in public. If you look at my titles and stuff in the NNN Reporters' Forum, and from a few years ago on Stormfront, you can see that that's racial "vileness."

We don't have to be all things to all people, but we can be like Jesuits - get to them where they live now, that we can lead them back to the right path. That means 'Net and personal "hooks" to feminists, conservatives, libertarians, environmentalists, etc. It means tailoring our approach to their understanding and current knowledge level. In public and in demonstrations, it means not letting our dress and language get in the way of our message. We did that in Topeka fairly successfully, although we can do better.


One more thing. Young skinhead and hammerhead racists are very, very important to the future, in my opinion. Because they are young, they may not be the most polished in social niceties, nor do they have a lifetime of living and reading behind them. But they'll be facing the expansion of the dark races, concomitant with the commonness of the racial radicalization of Whites (we hope). They are working class guys. So if they are rowdy in their youth, is this good or bad? I think it's mostly good. It's good that they are around. We should find ways to include them, and not just tell them to clean up their act and join AmRen (or what have you?).

Youthful energy must be channeled by older folks, if the youth cannot come up with the discipine and direction on its own. There are brains and brawn - once in a great while you might find both in the same person. But they must work together like the organs of a body.

It would attract tons of unintentional publicity, Mel Gibson's Passion, e.g.., which proved that the jewish media machine is a double-edged sword. This is a White Million Man march I'm talking about. Not WN's.

If it's not WN's, then why call it White Million Man march and have David Duke, probably the most well known WN, lead it?


Were all the blacks at their march NOI? Probably 2% at most. 98% of Americans want mexican immigration halted. Do you know any White men who are for mex invasion? David Duke still commands respect among Southern Whites, where many, many mexs are. They would jump at the chance. The war is also a good issue, but mex immigration is almost universally abjured. As far as the ones already here, well, we have to walk before we can run.

Duke is still dormant in the mind of the potential WN demographic. He needs an issue, a vehicle to get him (and our message) back to prominence. Almost everyone in this country agrees on mex immigration = a natural marriage.

Even if the goal was not achieved, it would bring massive publicity to the Race issue, which is the jews' worst fear. The networking potential of a million or so White men, coalesced to represent their common interests, the seeds that would be planted, the contacts we would make...it would be invaluable.

The issue is hot, I agree, but if Duke ever seriously considers leading a million man march, he should first get an estimate of the amount of people expected to show up. If we organized the event and only 5,000 people showed up it would make look us look marginalized and on the fringes. I believe that image is what is preventing us from gaining a foothold in the white middle class.

Alex, thanks lots for filling us in. If you didn't, then who? I was curious about Duke and what direction he would go in after his release. He sounds like a good guy.

Blondie

He's definitely a politician, but that's a good thing. He has a good patter. He knows what he's talking about, and can defend it eloquently. He strikes me as honest and straightforward. Your point I did try to press on him, perhaps unsuccessfully - that without VNN and this Forum, there will be no information good bad or indifferent about what different groups and people are up to. The fact that NA tries so hard to suppress information is a red flag. I think the main thing is that Duke will read us and make up his own mind. I could be wrong, but I sense that he is far more like us than the totalitarians within our movement.

Thanks to Rob for the support. It really does bear thinking on how to treat others on our side we disagree with. I think when people express certain values and goals in public but act differently in private, allowing for ordinary human weakness and hypocrisy we all have, it is grounds for criticism. When people try to suppress open debate, in my mind they become functional jews. I'm not fighting for the right of people I don't respect to replace the jews as our censors and torturers; I'm fighting so that Aryans can run their local communities the way they see fit -- within a controlled racial context. I'm a dictatarian, I guess.

A lot of our problems are due to the fact that talented people in WN are few. There's little money or respect accruing to people in the movement, so most of the talent goes elsewhere. This allows a certain percentage of defectives to enter and succeed who could not make it in a normal field. I believe this problem will disappear in time. Our case is so strong and urgent and unavoidably true, that the good and talented folks are coming our way whether they know it or like it or not. Part of what I mean by ITZ COMING. This gets into what Ed Steele says about the circumstances producing the men. To be prematurely right may feel an awful lot like being wrong, for a long, long time. But that doesn't mean our work isn't valuable and necessary. We are doing the right thing, and we're doing it harder and better over time. We are learning and improving. I've got to assume the jews know what they're doing when they try to knock down my sites. They aren't doing it for fun, they're doing it for fear. The jew shrivels in daylight, and must at all costs keep anybody, anywhere from throwing the switch.

[About Duke]

-- He believes we on our side should go our own way, and not worry about others, and in the long run this will produce the best results.


I think so as well. Different people have different styles. The main thing is to be relatively uniform in our overall message, e.g. Naming the Jew, and not suggesting that the Jewish issue is 'a conspiracy' when it is really race-based. Be accurate in your info and pay attention to details, too.



-------------

What about a combined WN/Nation of Islam "March Against Jewish Control of Washington"?

- against the jews' war in iraq
- against the jews' opening border with Mexico
- against misery caused by jew-fostered race-mixing and criminalization of free association

- toward self-determination and freedom and mutual respect

What about a combined WN/Nation of Islam "March Against Jewish Control of Washington"?

- against the jews' war in iraq
- against the jews' opening border with Mexico
- against misery caused by jew-fostered race-mixing and criminalization of free association

- toward self-determination and freedom and mutual respect

Now you're talking. Think big.

George Lincoln Rockwell met up with Malcom X in the 60's. I often wonder what would have become of their relationship if Rockwell had not been assassinated shortly thereafter.

Hey Alex,

What you should've said to David Duke when dealing with the issue about "VNN" criticizing him, CAL, or Don Black is that this mostly takes place on the Forum. As a matter of fact, Alex Linder is criticized on this forum in spades! He's called a Jew or a tool of ZOG. That's what happens on an umoderated discussion board: where a free-for-all infested with trolls and other malcotents invetibly dominate.

So the idea that you're a focal point of this criticism against Duke or Black or Strom doesn't stick going by the facts out there for all to see.

Oh, BTW. If Duke really 'feels' that the actual website VNN is not the kind of thing he cares to associate with: care explain to us how pornographer Vince Breeding got so high up in his own organization EURO????

For my money, Duke is just acceding to the wiles of others. You should be at this event Alex! Chain, too!

I did take this general tack, but really I don't know how much of our site he's seen, not much, if I had to guess. If he truly believes that WN should not criticize other WN, then we just disagree. People who interpret any criticism as attack are not people I will associate with. I think Duke will realize from talking to me what kind of a man I am, just as I gauge what I've heard from him. Things will work out over time. Yes, I do wish he had asked me to come on down and talk at the show or over a beer, but then I don't know his true motives, and I don't know what kind of stuff he's been fed about us, but I'm confident that over time my vision for WN will prevail. Not because it's mine, but because it is our strong way.

The Breeding thing is a good point. He would never help or associate with us in any way because we use epithets. All the while he was running a bunch of porn sites. Well I hope Duke will read our site and judge for himself, and talk to his guys who know me, and go from there. Either way, my toes are tapping. The value of VNN and our Forum do not depend on any man's opinion, and I can lead as well as anyone.

There is one big hurdle to a million man march. White people are afraid of losing their jobs for being 'Nazi's' and opening their corporation to civil rights lawsuits.

Its was easy for the nonwhites to roll down that hill to victory using gravity. But it is 1,000,000 times as hard for the white people to roll him back up that hill using muscle.

I seriously doubt we will ever get rid of the nonwhites by force within anyones lifetime here. Barring a major economic collapse, where whites have to compete with muds for food.

All white men should round up as many white women as they can, and breed 6 or more kids per woman.

That way you will buy lots more time in the future for victory.

What about a combined WN/Nation of Islam "March Against Jewish Control of Washington"?

- against the jews' war in iraq
- against the jews' opening border with Mexico
- against misery caused by jew-fostered race-mixing and criminalization of free association

- toward self-determination and freedom and mutual respect
Interesting you should mention a demo with NOI. Although I forsee a lot of flack from WN's in hardcore mode, it makes a lot of sense to march with NOI against our common enemy. I was reading the treatment given to NOI leader Farrakahn (sp? sorry) by the ADL on their pages and if you just forget he's black, thy paint him as they do us.

In a perfect world it would be their best with our best, but they will surely be followed by those with less sense that carry the boonish trappings, as those of us that just have to wear nazi or klan trappings would. I suggest that each and every participant in the parade wear a "XXXX Israel - No way out but thru the jew" t-shirt.

But anyway, if WN's and NOI got together for just one rally and it actually worked, the jews and the mexi's would probably poo themselves.

Just thinking.

Blacks are stupid, but they aint that stupid.

Whats in it for them? Get rid of the jew, so theyre only left with whites running them out of town? Ha! Im sure they would rather stick with the jew.

Why don't you and Billy and any others with an interest jointly and soon contact NOI, Alex? See what happens. Send a fancy letter on acid free 20lb cotton bond.

I wonder if Schoep would go for that? It'd be fun to see the swastikas amongst the negroes. The mindbending would blow the media's and the public's fuses. We could sure make some amusing IZ signs.

Picture a sea of 100,000 black faces with a light dusting of 1,000 White faces asking for equal representation in the march. Also, the black is a thin-skinned creature in my experience.
Come to think of it, David Duke and Louis Farrahkan hold a summit and agree to work to form a coalition to do only one thing - bounce the jews from power in America. They can have israel, but without American money and bodies. It would sure throw a wrench into the whole judeo-christian thing as well. White christians working with islamists? Pre-1948ism? Nice.

Blacks are stupid, but they aint that stupid.

Whats in it for them? Get rid of the jew, so theyre only left with whites running them out of town? Ha! Im sure they would rather stick with the jew.

Are you kidding? the average black doesn't even know someone is a JEW unless they see him wearing a yarmulke. Your average Black guy on the street corner doesn't know a damn thing about Jewish involvement in the Black Civil Rights movement. The Jew is just another rich White man to your typical ghetto coon. Only Nation of Islam sees the Jew.....

Martial Law? We skirt that every day. That's why I see a summit between our best and NOI's best with major media coverage, sure to be there as LF is a big draw. Duke, Alex, Billy and others could form our side. A nice sitdown and discussion like you see on the jewtube between heads of state. I'de be there with full producton in a heartbeat, ready for broadcast. It would definitely twist ZOG and wake up the fence sitters.

Let them declare martial law, no one believes them as it is and the mere example of two hating races coming togther for one common goal would rip their heads off and wake up those we really need, soldiers against the jews. We can sort the rest out later.

I think Franco and Chain will make excellent moderators.

Regarding Duke, did you find he had a good sense of Humor? Much of the Criticism, Jesting, and Questions really should be taken with a grain of salt, Wouldn't you agree?

I can appreciate your tone of Respect and Admiration for Duke's Accomplishments and I think you are acting Honorably for respecting his personal wishes regarding your attendance at his personal Homecoming. Perhaps at a later time, he can get a first hand look at what "Vnn" and the "Vnn Forum" are all about and then he can talk with you again. An ongoing dialogue with more inter-personal communication can only aid in mutual understanding and potential cooperation.

"We can", as different groups, target our specific market groups and get along just fine embracing our common goals. Through a genuine civil dialogue,

"We can" iron out our differences in a civil manner and agree to dis-agree if necessary, without hindering our momentum towards achieving our common goals for our People.

"We can" Educate, Inform, and Encourage "our people" to be Knowledgable, Successful, and Honorable.

David Duke has great potential to make the right decisions concerning your future relationship. Perhaps after speaking with you personally, he will Appreciate your Sincerity, your Drive, and your Capabilities!

Keep up the Good Work Alex, I look forward to reading Duke's post's in the new "Civil" Forum.

P.S. How is your garden coming along? Perhaps you could post an update in the gardening section. Thanks.
Let's try our first moderated discussion on the subject of David Duke, the man and his approach.

At the last minute, one of our new moderators, Chain, offered to share costs on a late trip to New Orleans to the Duke Conference. Yesterday, attempting to make reservations, he was told by James Kelso, "Charles A Lindbergh" at Stormfront, that we were unwelcome. After a bunch of calling, I was finally able to get through to Kelso, and after some hostile back and forth, he set up a phone call from David Duke, whom I spoke with for a couple hours until his battery ran out.

A few quick impression of Duke, and then I would like yours.

-- Duke said he felt that VNN's approach would clash with his, and I took this to mean he would feel more comfortable if we were not there. As he is the guest of honor, I told him to rest easy, if he feels that way, it is better that we not attend. Duke is far more like me in personality and background than like Kelso or Strom or Gliebe. What appears to me to be the situation, and which I told Duke, is that his guys are feeding him lies about VNN and me and what we are doing. He feels strong loyalty to Don Black, and seems to believe that we have attacked Black. I said, I don't think I've ever written a word about Black that was critical until I saw his whining that we weren't kicked off the same server he was. Not only was that childish and inappropriate, it wasn't true. Anyway, I conveyed to him that he needs to read us and judge us for himself, just the way he wants to be treated, and take the well-poisoners with a shaker of salt. I believe he will do this.

-- He believes we on our side should go our own way, and not worry about others, and in the long run this will produce the best results.

-- He's taken with the idea that our cause can sweep over the Aryan world in a very brief time, using the example of Islam and the Arabs in the 7th century, which covered their world in a generation.

-- His books are enjoying huge success in Europe, and he's working on a new one putting forth a new racial creed, something that can attract and inspire our people.

-- He takes a loose view of our side, and refers to it as the right. He says Francis is absolutely a racialist, and that Jared Taylor is not insidious, but confining his work to race. He sees it as newcomers picking up some race here, some jews there, and pretty soon grasping the whole problem, and so it is better not to criticize those on our side.

-- He said he has 20 good years left. He's 53, and in very good shape, takes vitamins, and has come out of prison stronger and more determined than ever.
It sounds like he's not going to formally ally with any group, nor build his own, but write and speak and travel. He will work with different people and groups on a project basis, and said he would look over VNN and see whether there were ways we could work together.

I'd like to hear some of your responses to this information, and I'll throw in some more stuff later.

If we don't do something soon--while we're still the dispossessed majority--it will be more than "1,000,000 times" harder to win this in the future, it will be impossible. After they've demoralized and cowed us into second guessing ourselves into inertia, like they've done here with you, they will come to kill or enslave our women and children. The evidence has forced me to conclude that the jews only fight war one way: a war of extermination.


We would still remain the majority if white men, would make their women have 6 kids.

Right now the white population is OLD. Young white people are few and far between.

Mexico has a huge young population.

Are you willing to gamble our young people can pull off a win, short handed?

Id say it would be wise to breed first, then fight.

People die in war, white people, and you have to account for that by overbreeding.

Heh!....an alliance with the NOI! How weak and stupid are we. Have you dummys ever read what the NOI thinks about White people? Elijah Muhammad and his Whitey be dey debil inbented by a blax scientitz?

God damn.... how far we have fallen that we need niggers to help us!

BY BROTHERS...WE ARE WHITE MEN! Read your history! We are tamers of continents! Traversers of great seas! Inventors and ingenuity and imagination of things the mud world could not even begin to fathom!!!

And you're telling me we need mud hut builders and grub eaters to help us against the jew?

God Damn....how far we have fallen!!!!
That's is one way to look at it. Then again, what are thhe two most powerul adversaries in America today? White's and 'muds'? (yeah, the jew has pitted us against each other since slavery, which they financed and executed - we know who'll end up on top after the jew falls). But to have it backfire in their hebeish faces would surely leave an impression. I'm not talking about fullscale compliance. I'm saying we both have a common interest. Kind of like the Shiites and Sunnis have, they hate each other, but they are sure kickin some coalition butt.

Rockwell did it. That's good enough for me.

Alex,

A real shame that you've been banned from attending the Duke Conference, even as a visitor and reporter, and a real insult. I bet Duke and co. would be proud to have some ZOG reporter come and cover the affair. Your 'message would conflict'? It isn't as if you were asking to speak, but just to attend and report. VNN is not welcome, CNN is.

Long time movement mudslinger and NA opponent Willis Carto is attending and speaking. That man, regardless of his merits, has been in conflict with virtually everyone else in the movement, including Dr. Pierce and Revilo Oliver, has been involved in lawsuits with the IHR and accused of crimes. There is a web page dedicated to him, linked to by the IHR, described thusly: "Detailed information, including many documents, on an influential "Patriot for Profit" and embezzler."

Certainly, Carto has made more enemies in the movement than Linder.

Willis Carto isn't banned from attending; he's a speaker.

What is it about Alex Linder that is so feared? I look at it this way. Alex Linder is to real politics what Pat Buchanan is to fake politics. He has to be kept out of the debates. He might steal the show, upset the apple cart, cut into profits. Can't have that. Small men's egos and livelihoods are at risk. Oh well.

I understand Alex's logic here; since he spoke with Duke and there is a chance things will improve, the best thing to do is what we have typically done in the face of gross injustice and this sort of scheming: bear it with dignity and make a good accounting of ourselves so that all who are able to see will see, by our actions, just what we are about. It's like White Nationalism in miniature. By our deeds and character we have to show the big talk of our enemies for what it is. Duke will understand this from experience.

Well, there's enough work to be done for everyone.

Since you aren't attending the Duke Conference, consider instead attending Ernst Zundel's June 11th Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals hearing in Cincinnati. Now there's a man in real need, and who has worked as hard as anyone else in this fight, and who has a lot more fight in him. He needs us and we need him. Here is Ingrid Rimland's announcement of the hearing:

US Zundel Hearing in Cincinnati June 11

...June 11th is the date for the oral presentation in the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeal in Cincinnati. If you are media, or if you are in the area - IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, ATTEND! This is a history-making case, and what will be decided is whether or not we can dislodge Ernst from the claws of the Korrupt Kanadian Kommissars.

To put it another way, we are arguing that Ernst was denied every single basic right he was entitled to - shamelessly! As our brief says, the Zundel case shocks the conscience! Ernst was treated like the worst of criminals, hauled off in chains, thrown into four prisons, treated abominably, and never allowed to present the facts as they occurred and are meticulously documented.

We are asking the judge to let him come back to Tennessee, in chains if necessary, to be allowed to tell an American judge exactly what happened. The presentation itself will only last 15 minutes - that's all the time we are allowed! - but presumably the three judges on our panel will have read the brief and will not have relied on some clerk of the Chosenite persuasion to tell them what it says.

I am not holding my breath that Ernst's return will be allowed, for we now know for certain that even courts on both sides of the border have aided in his kidnapping and are certainly kowtowing to the powers that be in keeping him in solitary - but history is going to be made, one way or another, and if you can manage to come to Cincinnati June 11th, send me a message (mailto:irimland@zundelsite.org).

Here is my letter to Alex Linder, 5/27/04:

Alex,

You ought to go. She's asking for media, and with VNN's history of money-raising and white-defending this would be quite fitting for us. You could meet Mrs. Rimland, get some quotes for your report, and it even could morph into a big effort on behalf of Zundel. This is a more clear-cut case than any other, even mainstream commentators are getting in on it. It's clear injustice and bare-faced Jewish tyranny. Zundel has done a lot and is worth a lot. It's a disgrace that he's in jail now and may be for 5 years in Germany. Who knows if he'll ever get out? who knows if he might not just disappear? For us to allow this to happen, when all the facts and legal technicalities are on our side, when there's not even a pretext for his being held, would be an outrage as well as a missed opportunity. And to let this happen to him after all he's done, a disgrace. More important than that, he is a great loss for us. He is too valuable to lose. Read this: Ernst Zundel's Message to the Sacramento Revisionist Conference (http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2754), from upcoming book Setting the Record Straight: Letters from Cell # 7. Totally incredible. That's from a man who is at the peak of his abilities and mental clarity and full of energy. We need him.

Go to Cincinnati if you can, report on the hearing for us, get some quotes from Mrs. Rimland, talk to her, see what can be done. Maybe we can get some WN attorneys working on this, maybe raise money, at least spread the word. What would it take to get you to Cincinnati? I'd be willing to contribute. I'd put up a thread in forum to get others to. You need a plane ticket? Would you be driving? Bring someone to take notes, a photographer if allowed, etc. It's not a privilege; it's your job and our responsibility. No one seems to be fighting for him, just as no one fought for Doles, and we're missing a great opportunity to throw our strength against ZOG at a historic weakpoint, on solid legal ground and for a man who we all love and admire, white nationalists and revisionists alike. Here we can put up a fight that maybe we can win and that at least we can raise a huge fuss over and rally around. For a thousand reasons we have to do this.. It's VNN's place and role. And we need Zundel, not just for his sake, but to show that we can't be pushed around like this - none of us - if we stand together. If this can happen to Ernst it can happen to any of us. Zundel is getting full-out ZOG-Soviet treatment, chains and all: solitary confinement, deportation from ZOG satellite to ZOG satellite, no charges! and the press is silent. But you know, this is no Soviet Union. AmeriKwa is weak, it can't hold up... we can kick it right in and gain a victory while the getting is good. ZOG is really shell-shocked now and shrinking into it's shell like a scared turtle-stein. It's retreating on lots of fronts. Can't you smell the fear? Exposing its weakness will only make it weaker and encourage more to attack. And by standing together and behind Ernst we show our own strength and resolve to win.

It's never been characteristic of our race to abandon our wounded or leave anyone behind. And now, more than ever, we need to have solidarity.

Tell me what you think.

William Krieger

[End of letter]

We aren't allowed to go to New Orleans? Let's go to Cincinnati and, in VNN spirit, get something done. For that assistant you can bring Chain if he would go. It won't be a big event; according to Ms. Rimland it will only last 15-20 minutes. But it is an important event, and deserves lots of attention and coverage. Not enough people know about this. Is anyone really putting up a fight for Ernst Zundel? It doesn't seem like it. There were a few flyers, a few broadcasts, plenty recitation of the facts, but to no real end. Where is the energy, where is the confidence, where is the will to win? Outside VNN, the WN and revisionist movement is like a dead fish; no life, no energy, no spirit. Remember the Doles case? It took VNN to energize what was already there and make it aware of itself and its power. If the rest of the movement is White Nationalism's Truth and Knowledge, VNN is its Morale. If the rest of the movement is WN's head, VNN is it's heart. Here we have the opportunity to really get something done and show what we are about, in face of the lies and exclusion of the "vested interests."

It was the Doles case that started all this. It was the fear of VNN's power to do good, not evil, that created the 'conflict,' which we never wanted. It frightened certain interests. The small men banded together to fend off the bigger man, teamed up to pull down the superior, much in the way that the Republicans and Democrats worked together to keep Pat Buchanan out of the debates, who they feared. They fear us, and we don't need them. Anyone who is able to see, will see, by our deeds and our character, what we are about, and will find their way to us. This is just the beginning of WN. We haven't even gotten started yet. There is lots of ground to cover. We don't need to fight over the scraps. Let's focus on VNN and show what we are worth.

William Krieger

Drastic times call for drastic measures.

Cinnci? Only 10 hours from here (after getting felt up by homeland security's finest just to get on the plane). The drive would be about the same but I wouldn't be getting my tax $ worth now would I? Worh it all for Zundel and to report the truth. June 11th is on my list of things to do.

Rockwell did it. That's good enough for me.

1960's "Negro" who stepped off the sidewalk to let white people pass need not be confused with today's "african american" who compels you to step off the sidewalk so he can pass by, walking with your white ex-girlfriend.

I'm from Jew York City originally, Steve. Actually, there are groups of black separatists there (black israelites, e.g.) whose rhetoric is far more venomous and hate filled than NOI, still, your point is duly noted.

Did Frederick the Great eschew alliances? Did Constantine or Charlemagne fail to see the unifying power of a subversive creed they didn't even subscribe to themselves? You've got to be pragmatic here. If AE were here, he'd tell us all to have a sit down with the Art of War.

The NOI are separatists. They don't believe in miscegenation, period. They don't believe in intoxicants and they believe it's their duty to be physically fit and able to serve their race. They also have a dress code. I know about the hypocrisy of Elijah Muhamed, Farrakhan, et al.. We want the same things: freedom from the jew, autonomy and dignity for our people, separation of the races. The reality is we have more in common with them ideologically than most Whites. That's the way it is and your objections won't change that.

Wouldn't you agree that either Hitler made a mistake, or was a victim of circumstance, fighting a war on two fronts? Let's not make the same mistake (or be forced into it) again. It just doesn't make sense.


Reply enclosed within attachment.

I think this rally is one of the greatest ideas ever. Jews have for the past century used blacks and other minorities as tools to further their own group interests against whites. Anti-semitism for a many reasons is extremely high amongst blacks. People, our number one enemy is the JEW. Without Jews there would no Iraq wars, support for Israel, civil rights movements, third world immigration, etc etc. NOI shares many of the same views as us. Just imagine a "one million march against Jews", maybe even at either the democratic or republican convention. The Jews will poop their pants. Blacks and whites marching equally, but seperating against Jewish power in the US. Why the hell not work with the NOI, help them through this protest make Jews not whites the main enemies for blacks? Take blacks away from the Jewish NAACP/Jessie Jackson camp. This in itself, will be a revolution in hate against the JEWS.

Would've, Should've, Could've...but won't. Who here can afford six kids?

Everyone can afford 6 kids. Turn your $100 per month cable tv off, buy an old tough american car like a caprice classic instead of a $700 per month SUV.

For the love of god, the average white person makes $45,000++ per year! Food, clothing, shelter, is all that is needed. Food can be bought at wholesale prices, along with clothing too. $150 per month, per kid = $900 per month, the cost of driving a brand new SUV around.

White people are selling out their future existance for a flashy truck/stationwagon.

OH I AM SURE YOU UPPITY WHITE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ASK ABOUT COLLEGE.

To hell with college, we need working class whites TO DO WORK, not manage mexicans doing that work.

Dude, old white goat, that argument was good maybe 30 or 40 years ago. Right now we are being flooded with millions of third worlders, and their population is exploding in the US as well. The baby boomers really screwed up and now we are left with this mess. What we need to do is understand but not dwell on the past, make strategic alliances with other groups with similiar interests and yank the JEWs from power. Then we can divide up the US and everyone we will live happily ever after in a non KOSHER America. :)

Some points:

1) No slurs or cursing. Try it, we'll delete it. If it keeps up, I'll ban repeat offenders from this subforum. If that's possible.

2) Why ally with NOI?

NOI includes many self-respecting blacks. Those who dress well and work deserve a measure of respect. NOI is trying to take blacks in a healthier direction. If NOI believes some kooky theories about the origins of whites, so what? They and we share an interest in getting rid of the jew who has mixed us at gunpoint to the detriment of both our communities.

The black community is headless, thanks to jewish political "liberation," which, like jewish sexual "liberation" for whites, is a form of control. Blacks were better off with their talented tenth leading their community rather than buried in ours. Less crime and bastardy, better dress, manners and morals BEFORE "civil rights." Black scholar Thomas Sowell has demonstrated this conclusively. The facts are covered up by the jew media that would have a heck of a time mis-covering such a rally.

Those who make fun of NOI need to consider that Farrakhan has a stronger organization than anybody in WN. Farrakhan names the jew in his public speeches. How many Whites do that?

We White Nationalists share an interest with Black Nationalists in separating our races. We also share interest in not seeing our men die for Israel.

In fact, why not include the Arabs, too?

Make the focus 100% on jews controlling Washington and the airwaves.

I'm from Jew York City originally, Steve. Actually, there are groups of black separatists there (black israelites, e.g.) whose rhetoric is far more venomous and hate filled than NOI, still, your point is duly noted.

Did Frederick the Great eschew alliances? Did Constantine or Charlemagne fail to see the unifying power of a subversive creed they didn't even subscribe to themselves? You've got to be pragmatic here. If AE were here, he'd tell us all to have a sit down with the Art of War.

The NOI are separatists. They don't believe in miscegenation, period. They don't believe in intoxicants and they believe it's their duty to be physically fit and able to serve their race. They also have a dress code. I know about the hypocrisy of Elijah Muhamed, Farrakhan, et al.. We want the same things: freedom from the jew, autonomy and dignity for our people, separation of the races. The reality is we have more in common with them ideologically than most Whites. That's the way it is and your objections won't change that.

Wouldn't you agree that either Hitler made a mistake, or was a victim of circumstance, fighting a war on two fronts? Let's not make the same mistake (or be forced into it) again. It just doesn't make sense.

Hey DH I replied to your post but apparently Alex and the new PC thread deemed it inappropriate.

No biggie.....we still have 9 out of 10 where we can say what we want. For the time being at least.

OWG is right about one thing...if you live simply, you live easily. I paid for my car in cash, and it's a 1999 with under 47,000 miles. I don't think you can lease in Jew York anymore, but its a bad idea anyway. If you cant afford somehting up front, you shouldnt be buying it. Alot of guys in the Army blew all their pay on beer, since I don't drink jew-brew, I walked out of the Army with over $15,000 extra saved up, not bad for someone who went from E-1 to E-4 in a two year hitch.

As for the NOI, it would be the psychological (calm down Norcal) equivalent of a nuclear bomb for some form of alliance. While I would not deny I dislike the majority of blacks, I do not find there presence on this globe so infuriating that I couldn't work with them for a few months to help get rid of them.

The jew must realize the world(global community in jewspeak) is getting extremely tired of Hymies hijinks, and see the writing on the wall. A domestic alliance...even a lose one, would further rattle the jews psyche.

Besides, what do nazis, la raza, and the NOI have in commin?

You know the answer.


Oh, I almost forgot to ask, was this civil enough? I do feel terribly like I am walking on eggshells. :p

*rubs eyes and looks at screen again*

That says civil forum and not civil rights forum, doesnt it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chain
Rockwell did it. That's good enough for me.

Old White Goat said-
1960's "Negro" who stepped off the sidewalk to let white people pass need not be confused with today's "african american" who compels you to step off the sidewalk so he can pass by, walking with your white ex-girlfriend.
I think Rockwell got a lot of press in his day, more than a Nazi leader would today, in large measure because jewry has successfully paralyzed the White mind. Rockwell was Pierce's mentor. Rockwell heavily influenced Klassen.

Propaganda- truthful propaganda, is mostly what we have to work with right now. There are a very few who will take action beyond that point. Franklin was one, but there are few.

Imagine the impact if Schoeps guys showed up. NOI could turn out way more than Whites could, even if the Zionist Iraq war were included on the bill.

Anyway, the images would be close-ups of White skinheads, and aerial and long-distant shots of giant swastika flags on poles in the middle of a black sea. That's what I'd envision, unless we got so PC to ban the swastika.

Then too, Farrakhan might be on the same stage as Schoep. Both are skilled orators, with radically different styles. Both would be hammering the truth about IZ, Zionist WWIII, and the race-mixing and Mexican flood jewry has kvetched.

Those kind of images would overload people's brains so that many of them would be forced to reconsider their belief system. Limbaugh, Oh'Really, Faux, Michael Weiner, Forward, ADL, CBS, CNN, ABC, even Free Republic would cover the program.

Potentially, we could fly in a couple of European WP leaders from countries which don't have anti-free speech laws, and they could address the crowd, talking about how we are a worldwide movement which constitutes a mere 8% of the planet: "We want our own homeland."

I suppose NOI would be instructed to politely applaud. It'd all be quite something.

My father had an old caprice classic. That thing got about 10 mi to the gallon. It would cost you $100 a week to drive a car like that with today's gas prices.

Same milage with an SUV, without the bank payment.

They're a plenty of econo-boxes on the resale market for around $4k that get 30 mpg, if your a commuter.

White people need to screw for survival. Things are that desperate.

30 million white women of child bareing age who have 6 kids a piece will result in 180 million new whites, to fight in the future. That would mean 90 million new adult fighting age white males in 24 years. We could lose 60 mil of those 90 mil in a deadly war, and we would be at the same point we are today. We would have bought ourselves 25 more years time, to sort this out.

Put aside the negative "lets kill the nonwhites" when talking to white lemmings and replace it with the positive of "Please have 6 white children". We need more time and soldiers to fight this massive assualt that has been thrusted on us.

Remember its quasi-legal to advocate in public that nonwhites be kicked out of our country. But it is 100% legal to tell whites to have more kids.

Is the big boss man going to fire you from your job, because you attend a rally for whites to have more children?

I think Rockwell got a lot of press in his day, more than a Nazi leader would today, in large measure because jewry has successfully paralyzed the White mind. Rockwell was Pierce's mentor. Rockwell heavily influenced Klassen.

Propaganda- truthful propaganda, is mostly what we have to work with right now. There are a very few who will take action beyond that point. Franklin was one, but there are few.

Imagine the impact if Schoeps guys showed up. NOI could turn out way more than Whites could, even if the Zionist Iraq war were included on the bill.

Anyway, the images would be close-ups of White skinheads, and aerial and long-distant shots of giant swastika flags on poles in the middle of a black sea. That's what I'd envision, unless we got so PC to ban the swastika.

Then too, Farrakhan might be on the same stage as Schoep. Both are skilled orators, with radically different styles. Both would be hammering the truth about IZ, Zionist WWIII, and the race-mixing and Mexican flood jewry has kvetched.

Those kind of images would overload people's brains so that many of them would be forced to reconsider their belief system. Limbaugh, Oh'Really, Faux, Michael Weiner, Forward, ADL, CBS, CNN, ABC, even Free Republic would cover the program.

Potentially, we could fly in a couple of European WP leaders from countries which don't have anti-free speech laws, and they could address the crowd, talking about how we are a worldwide movement which constitutes a mere 8% of the planet: "We want our own homeland."

I suppose NOI would be instructed to politely applaud. It'd all be quite something.

Why does it even have to be real at all?

Hire a film crew and shoot it yourself.

The best propaganda is faked.

Wouldn't you agree that either Hitler made a mistake, or was a victim of circumstance, fighting a war on two fronts? Let's not make the same mistake (or be forced into it) again. It just doesn't make sense.

Yes, Hitler comes to mind. He went to prison and wrote an anti jew book. Came out of prison and had great success. In the end, the jews got stronger. What happened to the enemies of the jews? They got creamed.

David Duke wrote an anti jew book. Went to prison. Comes out, and IF he starts having a smashing political success, which everyone is predicting, well, I personally would suspect the jews are way ahead of the game.

Did it cross anyone's mind Duke make have had to make a deal with somebody -feds - while he was in prison? That's what I have been thinking.

OWG, it is real, that which has happened. No one would "cover" a staged event. They want reality TV. The mestizo reaction alone would be worth the trouble.

Did it cross anyone's mind Duke make have had to make a deal with somebody -feds - while he was in prison? That's what I have been thinking.

Any evidence of any sort to back up your accusation?

It's no good if you only breed more brain-washed cannon-fodder for future Jew wars.
Those of us here now must do what is needed to insure that those White children grow up free of the clutches of the would-be master race.

Same milage with an SUV, without the bank payment.

They're a plenty of econo-boxes on the resale market for around $4k that get 30 mpg, if your a commuter.

White people need to screw for survival. Things are that desperate.

30 million white women of child bareing age who have 6 kids a piece will result in 180 million new whites, to fight in the future. That would mean 90 million new adult fighting age white males in 24 years. We could lose 60 mil of those 90 mil in a deadly war, and we would be at the same point we are today. We would have bought ourselves 25 more years time, to sort this out.

Put aside the negative "lets kill the nonwhites" when talking to white lemmings and replace it with the positive of "Please have 6 white children". We need more time and soldiers to fight this massive assualt that has been thrusted on us.

Remember its quasi-legal to advocate in public that nonwhites be kicked out of our country. But it is 100% legal to tell whites to have more kids.

Is the big boss man going to fire you from your job, because you attend a rally for whites to have more children?

Any evidence of any sort to back up your accusation?
He didn't make an "accusation." He made what I personally think is a ridiculous conjecture. Read the definition of "accusation" at dictionary.com
and cut the drama.

It's no good if you only breed more brain-washed cannon-fodder for future Jew wars.
Those of us here now must do what is needed to insure that those White children grow up free of the clutches of the would-be master race.


The jews are winning because they bought off the majority of whites through managerial positions that require little work and pay big salaries.

Replace that with a big bubble of surplus whites [which the jew cant account for in his economic model], all the managerial positions taken, and your setting up the domino's to start tumbling down.

Low job class whites with little to no college education will spearhead revolution through need to survive instinct against mexicans and negroes, it wont come from the cushy air-conditioned middle [managerial] class, ever.

Many White Nationalists want to "reach for the stars" but don't want to harvest their own food, empty their own trash and cut their own lawns.

We're going to have to start doing our own dirty work, but I think pigs will fly before that happens without a catastrophe.

The university as job factory is quickly becoming history, except for you-know-who.



Keystone

There's nothing wrong with doing both. We need WN doctors, lawyers, and scientists as much as we need organic gardeners and tool and die makers.

Don't sell yourself short - look toward those stars.

The jews are winning because they bought off the majority of whites through managerial positions that require little work and pay big salaries.

Replace that with a big bubble of surplus whites [which the jew cant account for in his economic model], all the managerial positions taken, and your setting up the domino's to start tumbling down.

Low job class whites with little to no college education will spearhead revolution through need to survive instinct against mexicans and niggers, it wont come from the cushy air-conditioned middle [managerial] class, ever.

My reading of history tells me that the downtrodden may spark insurrections, but that dynamic change comes when the middle class and portions of the elite decide that the existing social order will no longer save them.

The top 1% of the population in the US control 40% of the wealth - with the top 5% controlling almost 70%. We must champion the cause of white workers and the white middle class against the enemy's at the top.

There's nothing wrong with doing both. We need WN doctors, lawyers, and scientists as much as we need organic gardeners and tool and die makers.

Don't sell yourself short - look toward those stars.


Everything that is needed today have been invented, and reinvented.

We have entered an age of redundancy.

Its all been done before.

We dont need tens of millions of doctors or lawyers, nor scientists.

How many people do you need to set a broken leg? By observation today you need 2 nurses, one doctor in his Ivory tower, tens of insurance claims workers, thousands of hospital administrators, etc, etc, etc. All parasites of the system, leaching off the patient. Its no wonder to the independent observer what is going on here. We have a lot of lazy people that corrupt our society and do no work, but creat an illusion that they are working by creating needless wasteful red tape and taxes.

We need social organization from the bottom up not the top down. Local economic organization among whites, to increase efficiency and cut needless waste.

One thing that has always plagued america is its lack of white labor, even Benjamin Franklin wrote about this 250 years ago.

Americans need to breed workers, and warriors, not forehead vein throbbing desk or microscope jokeys.

Ok, well, the horror! I ignore stuff like that myself. Duke, like me, is instinctively libertarian. By contrast, the leadership of the NA side is instinctively totalitarian. I think Duke would be extremely foolish to formally ally with NA, and I think there's no chance he will ever join them, let alone lead them, though they may work together on certain things. The irony Duke may or may not grasp is that the NA acts just like the jews it criticizes: it calls for unity and tolerates absolutely no criticism of itself where it has the power to suppress it, meanwhile, behind the scenes, it smears and lies. The NA is also like the jews in showing absolutely no gratitude toward those who help it. It is ungracious and small in its actions and mindset. I think as a group the NA's leaders exemplify Nietzsche's warning that in chasing monsters beware you do not become monsters. There is a world of difference in mentality between Duke and Strom. Strom will never be attractive to large numbers of people because, obeying the rules of this sub-forum, he is weird. Not in a good way. His editorial work is high quality, and he deserves high praise for National Vanguard, site and magazine. If he were able to tolerate the fact that other men have skills he does not, we could get along with him. But to accept him as leader -- never. Strom belongs under a better man's control. He may even recognize that. His instinct is right in trying to replace Gliebe with Duke, but Duke would be a fool to go that route, and he's not a fool.

I felt inspired, listening to Duke. The truth is, I felt that he should want me to come to his conference and speak there, because I can get people to feel that vision. But, at the moment he's wary. But he has the correct view, which is that we need to stop fighting over crumbs and look at the huge feast of hundreds of millions of unawakened Aryans our message rightly resounds with.

It looks like to me the field is open for somebody to put together a party or faction representing the majority of awakened Whites, who recognize the need for racial dictatorship, but below that favor decentralization, which is liberty in practice.

Alex I am glad to see your evolving political sophistication. With all due respect, nobody outside of WN circles or the anti's know about you, Roper, Strom, Gliebe, or the so many others who have dedicated their lives to se curing a white future for our people. David Duke is the one man that has the ability to reach the masses with a racial and anti-Jewish supremacist message that will not make the average white recoil. He should be our prime spokesperson the same way Pat Buchanan is to the paleos.

Everything that is needed today have been invented, and reinvented.

We have entered an age of redundancy.

Its all been done before.

We dont need tens of millions of doctors or lawyers, nor scientists.

How many people do you need to set a broken leg? By observation today you need 2 nurses, one doctor in his Ivory tower, tens of insurance claims workers, thousands of hospital administrators, etc, etc, etc. All parasites of the system, leaching off the patient. Its no wonder to the independent observer what is going on here. We have a lot of lazy people that corrupt our society and do no work, but creat an illusion that they are working by creating needless wasteful red tape and taxes.

We need social organization from the bottom up not the top down. Local economic organization among whites, to increase efficiency and cut needless waste.

One thing that has always plagued america is its lack of white labor, even Benjamin Franklin wrote about this 250 years ago.

Americans need to breed workers, and warriors, not forehead vein throbbing desk or microscope jokeys.

My life was saved by modern medicine - so maybe I'm a little prejudiced here.

Remember all that is good today whether it is art, science, or technology is the 2,500 year accumulation of white European peoples. IMHO that is a legacy worth preserving.

I'm aware Zundel's abused by the system. But Zundel's people in the past have made it clear that he's no WN. I'm not interested in helping people at night who won't associate with me in the daytime.

Any evidence of any sort to back up your accusation?

None. But before he went into jail he was completely marginalized in this country. I'm sure he was just a name from the past to most Americans. Now, why would ZOG let him 'off the leash' now, during a war that is going badly? They would have to have a reason for that.

No white men are allowed to speak common sense in the media in this country. If they suddenly let David Duke have a public forum to get his message out now, I think something is fishy as hell.

I'm aware Zundel's abused by the system. But Zundel's people in the past have made it clear that he's no WN. I'm not interested in helping people at night who won't associate with me in the daytime.
Alex, that's just about everyone, unfortunately. But that's OK, I believe we should focus on VNN and winning over new converts rather than fighting over what's been scraped together so far, much of it of little value. Those now in our opponent's ranks will eventually make their way over to our side, once we demonstrate our abilities.

As for Zundel, he may have started out a revisionist, but he seems to have come to a new realization, and by his recent statements seems far more interested in political realities than historical ones. His message dovetails with what Edgar Steele was saying at the revisionist conference, about the fundamentally more important nature of action to academics. Read what he has to say, and then judge whether or not he is a White Nationalist.

This action against me has once again deepened my belief that these people are not like us.

They might look like us because they have eyes, ears, a mouth, a nose, arms and legs. We and they even have the capacity to interbreed and produce offspring. But they are, as we say in English, differently wired, something that needs to be explored further. They act and react, think and feel substantially different than we do. The evidence is everywhere -- from the blood cellars of the Cheka to the torture chambers of Dachau, Schwäbisch Hall, Bad Neundorf, Nuremberg, and the Gaza Strip.

Unless we acknowledge, research, and address this difference with appropriate countermeasures -- by legislation, by decree, or via cultural campaigns, seminars, lectures, etc. -- we cannot hope to defend ourselves successfully against their onslaught and infiltration. Our intellectual immune system seems so compromised by propaganda and cultural baggage that, if things remain as they are, we will go down to certain defeat in every sphere.

Professor Kevin Macdonald has done some interesting studies and laid bare their "survival" strategies, which is nice, helpful -- but, as is usual with academics today, he leaves it there. These are not "defensive survival strategies," as he puts it euphemistically. They are strategic tools in the service of their tactics to infiltrate, subvert, control, and ultimately take over Gentile society and dominate all their affairs -- bar none! These "survival strategies" are deadly weapons in the hands of our enemies in a war of destruction they have declared, for whatever reasons known to them -- and only dimly realized by some of us.

That is why I retreated to the mountains of beautiful, peaceful Tennessee to rest and to reflect, to rethink "from scratch" what, if anything, could be done to stop and, hopefully, reverse the decline to oblivion. As I dug over my garden, planted my flowers, and tended to my potatoes, all my waking hours were devoted to that Herculean problem of how best do what needs to be done if we want to assure the survival of our children and grandchildren in the years and decades ahead.

That is our task, infinitely more difficult now, because everywhere we operate under disadvantages. We cannot -- no, we dare not and must not under any circumstances -- continue on our present course of merely reacting to the constant attacks in every sphere of life by our sworn enemies...

For the battalion of Revisionists out there, there is vital, lifesaving, soul saving, to be done if we but open our eyes and remove our blinders, plunge in, and forge ahead. There is a world to be conquered together -- or to be lost alone.

If and when I get out of here, wherever they may ship me, I will not be short of work. There is lots of important work to be done -- vastly more important than poking in the ruins of Auschwitz for a few more decades. Nonsense! It's a diversion, a false trail laid out by a deceptive enemy. We must not fall for it. We must resist it. We must warn against the temptation to work over familiar ground, to split hairs and argue points already argued to exhaustion. We have proven all there is to prove -- the "Holocaust," depicted as some form of genocidal aberration, never happened. Read, and ye shall find!

That's why I preach with an almost religious fervor to step back, to take stock, make inventory of what is useful and worth preserving, and what is a hindrance -- and dump, turf out what is no longer of help to us...

So the battle is on around the world -- and here I am, immobilized! It seems that, karmically, I was not yet to be allowed to retire and raise organic crops, to contemplate a way out of our current dilemma. It is one more time into the brawl and the sewer of court rooms!

I am convinced the Gentiles of this world will re-unite, circle the wagons, and protect what is theirs -- a culture and a way of life built and refined over eons. Our ancestors are calling their descendants to the front!

Self-liberation will not be painless, but I do not believe our beloved Old Continent will play second fiddle forever, and then my North American experience, gathered over half a century of hands-on leadership, will come in handy. Arminius learned his skills and his trade in the military academies and training camps of the Roman legions. His victory in the Teutoburger Forest will be celebrated in 2009 by German patriots everywhere. To me, that is a date full of symbolism and also a reminder to self-sacrifice and a renewed commitment to freedom.

The Spartan and Prussian ideals will once again have to suffuse all our actions and our thinking. No self-deception will succeed. Only if we, the responsible leaders, can impress upon our kith and kinfolk the need to radically change and improve, the need to steel ourselves physically and mentally -- only then can we really dream about our campaign of reconquest of our "Lebensraum." Only when we change our habits, not only what we eat and drink but what food we take in for the soul with our minds, will we regain our freedom. Words alone, spoken or written, will not achieve it. Personal sacrifice, suffering, sweat, blood, and lots of tears, along with fiscal and sexual self-control, reining in our emotions, being steady at the helm of our lives -- that's how we will bring forth the heroes necessary for the enormously difficult but historically necessary task.

There will be no instant solutions, no magic bullet, no shortcuts to victory -- not in such an epic struggle to save the remnants of a great and ancient race.

Excerpted from Setting the Record Straight: Letters from Cell # 7 by Ernst Zundel.

Ernst Zundel's Message to the Sacramento Revisionist Conference (http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2754)

To me that seems clearer and more straightforward - more VNN like - than anything put out by Duke or Strom or the other euphemism-hurlers. And these people not only won't associate with you day or night, but actively work to undermine you and harm you! I doubt Ernst Zundel would ever have told you that you couldn't attend and cover a speech of his.

Anyway, Zundel deserves our help, is in a position to be helped, because of the outrageous, illegal nature of what's being done to him, and he undoubtedly has an important role to play in the future.

William Krieger

Alex, I'm happy to read about your long phone conversation with David Duke and especially happy to hear that the rumors of a grand alliance with Gliebe's NA are unfounded. While I've said before that I thought Duke was "damaged goods" as a WN leader, he still remains the most attractive and articulate spokesman we currently have. I wish I could have been in New Orleans this weekend, but maybe they wouldn't have let me in? I'll be extremely interested to learn what comes out of this conference, however.

I'll be extremely interested to learn what comes out of this conference, however.


Too many Chief's and not enough Indians, thats what.

Anyway, Zundel deserves our help, is in a position to be helped, because of the outrageous, illegal nature of what's being done to him, and he undoubtedly has an important role to play in the future.

William Krieger

Sounds like Zundel has figured out that jews are a separate species.

I'll defend Zundel in print, but I've seen mixed messages from Ingrid re WN help, and she can get in touch if she wants something.

Too many Chief's and not enough Indians, thats what.

I would have gone simply as an injun if I had. ;)

-- He's taken with the idea that our cause can sweep over the Aryan world in a very brief time, using the example of Islam and the Arabs in the 7th century, which covered their world in a generation.
I find this idea quite intriguing. What are some methods we could employ that would increase this possibility?

Islam was partially driven by religious and mythical furor; by contrast, most WNs today rely on barebones science and stark reality. Do we need to add an element of mythos to our approach, or would we be better off without it?

I find this idea quite intriguing. What are some methods we could employ that would increase this possibility?

Islam was partially driven by religious and mythical furor; by contrast, most WNs today rely on barebones science and stark reality. Do we need to add an element of mythos to our approach, or would we be better off without it?

Not exactly a new religion, but a new creed for Aryan man. We're poised between the stars and utter disaster. Will the jews destroy us? Or will we move on to a White bright future with men with 10,000 IQs?

The is a bit hazy to me too, but presumably he'll flesh it out in his coming book. "Idea whose time has come," is my sense. Simply can't be held back.

Alex, I’m glad to see that you are being gracious about the Duke Conference snub. It speaks volumes to your character. I also get the impression that you are aware that David and Don’s direction is wrongheaded and that they will ultimately fail. But nevertheless we must support them. Because, you understand, just as a boxer uses body-blows to soften-up his adversary (but never knocks him out) it is ultimately that crushing left hook to the head that finishes the job. Different tools working on the same job and both is necessary for completion. Duke will administer the body blows, but you are the one destined to unleash the left hook to the jew’s head.

An early alliance with Louis F. is advisable now, as he would be open to discuss the issues with someone who is on the same page . This alliance would be beneficial on a number of levels and lessen the bloodshed that will come. You are the man, who’s time has come. The brass ring is before you. Do your fellow WNs the proper service and standup and do what needs to be done. You have the tools and the talent and this is your destiny.

I'll say again that I hope Duke can build something bigger than the KKK ever was but I'm not too sanguine about the chances. Many here will argue with that. Some seem to be waiting for a flawless White messiah and will settle for nothing less.

I loved it and love it, but Duke is the future. Names like "White Revolution", racial slurs, anger, violence, ranting, and Nazi Germany fetishes, they are poision. They're poison to the people who participate, and they're poison to the success of the White race. VNN must evolve, and this forum is proof that it is evolving, but it's not even close to the level of class possessed by Duke. I'm not saying he's an angel, but you've got to respect him. For now, best to keep these two worlds seperate. Let him do his thing without being hindered by the presence of people who shroud themselves in bad, unappealing connotations.

I loved it and love it, but Duke is the future. Names like "White Revolution", racial slurs, anger, violence, ranting, and Nazi Germany fetishes, they are poision. They're poison to the people who participate, and they're poison to the success of the White race. VNN must evolve, and this forum is proof that it is evolving, but it's not even close to the level of class possessed by Duke. I'm not saying he's an angel, but you've got to respect him. For now, best to keep these two worlds seperate. Let him do his thing without being hindered by the presence of people who shroud themselves in bad, unappealing connotations.

http://www.duke.org/conference/saturday/duke_signs.jpg

Look. Carefully. Is ONE person under 45? That is not the future. A few of those people will be dead by the time I finish writing this and hit "submit reply". These people are ancient!

An enterprising man would have set up an adult diaper booth/Canadian drug shipmet company outside of that hall. Probably make a killing.

Wrinkles, bald spots, and grey hair is not the future. If Duke wants old folks to support him, great. They are notorious for being easily parted from their money. Its called televangelism.

Some would say the old folks could provide money, I suppose this is true.

However, some say they can provide insight, leadership, or experience. This is...to be civil, pure poppycock! :D

Last I checked it was their generation who really f****d over mine. Integration happened on their watch. So did the final strangleholds of jewish power in government, religion, and media.

While some I can easily imagine sipping tea and chatting happily with those old biddies, such as that creepy f****t CAL, I'd much rather throw my chips in with the NOI.

The hell with "the greatest generation", a tarnished crown worn askew and given by the jews. They sold us out so many times, they will do it again.

Let Duke pull an Oral Roberts on those geezers. More power to him.

However, don't call the geriatric ward in the photo "the future".

Oh, and here's an aftherthought, be thankful you weren't allowed to attend Chain n' Linder. The stench of mothballs and impending death would have been annoying, and I cannot fathom either of you being able to tolerate that Birch-esque drivel for long.

RE: Steve B

An alliance with calypso Louie would alienate more than half of WN's! In addition, most niggers see jews as White and would probably view and alliance with WN's as just another "whitey trick". The NOI are stupid but they're not dumb. Farrakhan knows that WN's hate blacks with nearly the same zeal they hate jews and would see through the obvious intention of WN's to secure an advantage.

In fact the whole idea reeks of jew! Who but a jew would form a alliance with people he despises only to gain short term advantage over one he despises more?

Dumb idea!

No Brother, I am not a jew.

But, maybe instead of using the word "alliance", we could say "have an understanding"......with regards to NOI.

Of course the negro is our adversary.........but Whites have been pitted against the negro by the hand of the jew. The jew is ultimately responsible for the enmity between the negro and the White. The negro acts like a negro because he is a negro.........and negroes belong in africa, not in America where we try to force them to act White. Farrakhan understands this....he seems to be the only negro leader to do so.

Negroes could never be persuaded by White men to leave America and go to africa...........we would have to exterminate at least 50% of them before they would ever leave at our behest.

But, a negro leader like Farrakhan could persuade masses of negroes to leave on their own accord and possibly save millions of negro and White lives in the race war to come.

We need not be friends with the negro..........we only need an understanding that we are fighting a common enemy and work toward that end. Any notions of so-called "obvious intentions of WN's to secure an advantage" could be laid "outright" upon the negotiation table as a possible concern for either party. I think that Alex is well qualified and an astute enough operator to see the strategic necessities of leveraging group positions to our advantage............and that's why I suggested it to him and not you.

I also get the impression that you are aware that David and Don’s direction is wrongheaded and that they will ultimately fail.

Don't know if I am allowed to post here, but I disagree.

Though I'm not familiar with the nuances, I can say the much more seemingly "moderate" political ways of SF/BNP/DD will be much more convincing to the average white.

A few classes in my college (and a few research papers) basically awakened me to have somewhat similar views with WN's, which is when I started reading more on SF.

But I can probably say if I had went to VNN instead right off the bat (where pictures of lynched negroes are commonplace), it would have definately changed my opinion of WNism.

Not exactly a new religion, but a new creed for Aryan man. We're poised between the stars and utter disaster. Will the jews destroy us? Or will we move on to a White bright future with men with 10,000 IQs?

The is a bit hazy to me too, but presumably he'll flesh it out in his coming book. "Idea whose time has come," is my sense. Simply can't be held back.
Well, we've got the necessary creed in the form of the 88 Precepts, or Nature's Eternal Laws if you prefer; science-based religion.

The mythos aspect I was suggesting was some sort of element to instill a driving religious fervor. The star talk sort of serves, I suppose; "The Stars are Ours!", etc. But a religion also needs its religious figures, its gods if you will. Many of us already apotheosize Adolf Hitler; others have great reverence for David Lane, who set as the 40th Precept "A race must honor above all earthly things, those who have given their lives or freedom for the preservation of the folk."

Frank Herbert's Dune series examined the nature of religious fervor in a sci-fi setting. The common folk made God figures out of Paul Atreides and Leto Atreides II, although these two individuals were bound to the dictates of natural law (obscured somewhat by the seemingly unrealistic sci-fi elements, including prescience and Leto's longevity).

It seems almost impossible to ascribe extreme religious connotations upon a real historical figure without distorting the truth to some degree. That's what I'm pondering; should we take especial care to be bound by the absolute truth of our heroes, or would it be beneficial at all to allow a mythology to build up around certain of them?

Take care as you reply to this. Adolf Hitler exists everywhere and sees everything; if you post falsely He will smite you... :p

Don't know if I am allowed to post here, but I disagree.

Though I'm not familiar with the nuances, I can say the much more seemingly "moderate" political ways of SF/BNP/DD will be much more convincing to the average white.

A few classes in my college (and a few research papers) basically awakened me to have somewhat similar views with WN's, which is when I started reading more on SF.

But I can probably say if I had went to VNN instead right off the bat (where pictures of lynched negroes are commonplace), it would have definately changed my opinion of WNism.
Well, there's questions of 'How much should we soften our cause in order to make it attractive to the lily-livers to buy'?; and then there's questions of 'What will it take for our cause to succeed?'

Image may be useful, but it is not the ulimate tool. If you make it your ultimate goal and devote all your strength and resources towards sharpening that one tool, the other tools in your bag may become brittle and shatter. Would you spend all your money on a new pair of windshield wipers for a clear forward view, only to be left with no gas money?

Small steps right?


I'm not "white", yet I would probably vote for a BNP candidate if I were British.

Cultural genocide is not something that appeals to me, regardless of the culture. Islam (and the arabs pouring into Europe) are using their demographic warfare to ease their cultural genocide of western society.

The mexicans are at least westernized, but like negroes, they have the tendency of committing violent crimes and decreasing property values.

Europe is for whites. Japan is for the Japanese, Arabia is for arabs. People should stay in their land of origin. In the potential chaos in the American continent, maybe I can usurp Hawaii for "my people". Heh.

Small steps right?

I'm not "white",
What the heck are you, and what are you doing here?
In the potential chaos in the American continent, maybe I can usurp Hawaii for "my people". Heh.
Are you a Hawaiian native?

Small steps right?


I'm not "white", yet I would probably vote for a BNP candidate if I were British.

Cultural genocide is not something that appeals to me, regardless of the culture. Islam (and the arabs pouring into Europe) are using their demographic warfare to ease their cultural genocide of western society.

The mexicans are at least westernized, but like negroes, they have the tendency of committing violent crimes and decreasing property values.

Europe is for whites. Japan is for the Japanese, Arabia is for arabs. People should stay in their land of origin. In the potential chaos in the American continent, maybe I can usurp Hawaii for "my people". Heh.

Thanks for the support. I support the nationalism of other groups as well, usually.

Also discourage insulting jokes and unsubstantiated personal attacks directed against David and Don Black, as well.
The trouble with that idea is that it inhibits the degree of free speech allowed here. The only type of posting discouraged is 1) advocation of anything illegal and 2) pornographic images that show any more than the tops off of women. Foul language, idle chit-chat, and personal opinions - including strongly negative opinions of any person - are all protected free speech in these parts.

According to the more traditional Hawaiians they were far better off and happier before the xtian insanity brought them misery and more recently judeo-capitalism destroyed their islands and wildlife irreversibly.


I absolutely agree. But I was just using Hawaii as an example.

My basic philosophy is that people should stay in their own lands and try to improve their people and their country.

America's situation is a bit different. If somehow ethnic nationalism were to take afoot, I would recommend partitioning. A nation state for the whites, black, asians, and what not. Of course the resources and territory allocated would be proportionate to the population.

Eurasians may be only 0.3% of the population in North America, but to a certain extent, we're more ethnocentric than most people.

Of those surveyed, 45% said that given the choice, they would rather date a Eurasian than an individual of any other ethnic background. Furthermore, 68% said they wished they could meet more Eurasians for romantic purposes. That number soared to 81% among respondents not in a committed relationship at the time of the survey.

Ironically, I believe most EAs take race so seriously is because they are "mongrels". Race is much more likely to be an issue for them. Of course, from my "racist" point of view, I believe EAs are smarter than other mongrels, and even "pure" negroes, mexicans, etc.

Asian and white intelligence is relatively equal, though I'll give the whites credit for more "creative" power, despite the asian higher IQ.

From a CBSNews article:
Yet in other types of characteristics — including grades, verbal ability and parents' education — the study found that mixed-race students tend to fall between the single-race adolescents who shared part of their background. For example, Asian students had higher grade-point averages than whites, and children with both Asian and white parents had averages between those two peer groups.


Blacks have everything to gain by interbreeding, whites and asians have everything to lose.

This (imo) proves that genes play a role in intelligence. But despite the fact we aren't asian or white means we can't sympathize with 1st world countries being ravaged by Islam and immigrants. You guys will suceed in your goals a hell of alot sooner than we will.

We don't have a real culture or anything. All I know is that I like my genes and my women, and I don't want nons interbreeding with us (once again, ironically). So white nationalism has a hell of a lot more footing than my position, but I'm just doing what I feel naturally.

Vlad said-
According to the more traditional Hawaiians they were far better off and happier before the xtian insanity brought them misery and more recently judeo-capitalism destroyed their islands and wildlife irreversibly.
I know you're not saying you believe this, Vlad, but they used to kill each other on the lava rock heiaus (pronounced "hay-ow", the "ow" as in "cow"). They ate Captain Cook's heart and brain.

Ethnic Hawaiiands are a mixed bag. Some of them have a lot of connects in government and business, whereas others are poor and stupid and eat lots of junk food. It was thought that "physical big was grand and good", so they mated for fatness for centuries. And they achieved their goal. There are some DNA evidences that polynesians originally came from South China. Melville's "Typee" is a good book on them. Melville briefly had a job setting up bowling pins in Honolulu on his way back from the Marquesas. He then sailked on a ship commanded by Richard Henry Dana to get back to the mainland- I believe around late 1840's or mid to late 1850's. He hated Dana.

I hope the Hawaiians cause lots of trouble for the US. The sooner they get the hell out of the United States, the faster the country will continue to break apart, and we Whites can maybe get Our Place. The Midwest.

By the way, great and increasing numbers of Hawaiians (not to mention Filipino invaders, Koreans, Chinese- you name it over there!) are increasingly rude, hostile, and physically assaulting to "diversity-clamoring" Whites in their midst, no matter if said Whites just got off the plane, or have lived there for decades. Some of us have learned and see with eyes wide opened. That's the difference. How many times I tried to explain to tourists (even some non-White tourists!) what was going on, and specifically how they should protect themselves, I can't count, but it was in the high hundreds.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/kona/fig83.jpg

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Imgs/Jpg/Kilauea/heiau.jpg

http://www.bozos.com/hawaii/photos/017_kaneeleele_heiau_2.jpg

He said unsubstantiated which means posting a personal attack of speculation without solid proof.
Yeah, but is an unsubstantiated attack necessarily illegal? I suppose the target of the attack could sue for libel...

I absolutely agree. But I was just using Hawaii as an example.

My basic philosophy is that people should stay in their own lands and try to improve their people and their country.

America's situation is a bit different. If somehow ethnic nationalism were to take afoot, I would recommend partitioning. A nation state for the whites, black, asians, and what not. Of course the resources and territory allocated would be proportionate to the population.

Eurasians may be only 0.3% of the population in North America, but to a certain extent, we're more ethnocentric than most people.

Of those surveyed, 45% said that given the choice, they would rather date a Eurasian than an individual of any other ethnic background. Furthermore, 68% said they wished they could meet more Eurasians for romantic purposes. That number soared to 81% among respondents not in a committed relationship at the time of the survey.

Ironically, I believe most EAs take race so seriously is because they are "mongrels". Race is much more likely to be an issue for them. Of course, from my "racist" point of view, I believe EAs are smarter than other mongrels, and even "pure" negroes, mexicans, etc.

Asian and white intelligence is relatively equal, though I'll give the whites credit for more "creative" power, despite the asian higher IQ.

From a CBSNews article:
Yet in other types of characteristics — including grades, verbal ability and parents' education — the study found that mixed-race students tend to fall between the single-race adolescents who shared part of their background. For example, Asian students had higher grade-point averages than whites, and children with both Asian and white parents had averages between those two peer groups.


Blacks have everything to gain by interbreeding, whites and asians have everything to lose.

This (imo) proves that genes play a role in intelligence. But despite the fact we aren't asian or white means we can't sympathize with 1st world countries being ravaged by Islam and immigrants. You guys will suceed in your goals a hell of alot sooner than we will.

We don't have a real culture or anything. All I know is that I like my genes and my women, and I don't want nons interbreeding with us (once again, ironically). So white nationalism has a hell of a lot more footing than my position, but I'm just doing what I feel naturally.


I'd also like to clarify that despite seperation nation-states, an economic alliance of sorts would be useful to help us compete against the European Union. The reason the EU was created in the first place was to stand against the American and Japanese supereconomies (supranationalism so the european economy wasn't competeting so harshly against one another).

Anima Eternae, hapas such as yourself, "Asams", whatever relate to Asiatics, not Whites. They may remember their White parent or grandparent, but they are Asiatics. I have perceived that they are almost always most comfortable with other Asiatics, not Whites. Just as mulattos are blacks, or half- or 1/4 or 1/8th jews are jews, you are "Asiatic".

Eurasian half or quarter breeds may prefer their own company because of their commonalities of genetics, family histories, and outlook, but they are a vast statistical minority. There are not nearly so many of them as there are mestizos, for example.

I have found that Eurasians (that, is White-mixed north-Asian mixes) do tend to act more polite and civil with Whites. I always ascribed this generally to the civilizing influence of their White parent (or less often, their White grandparent(s) ).

About asiatic IQ's. Japanese IQ's came out slightly higher in a study or two. They have more "cultural unity" than Whites. The Chinese population has not been tested in any nationwide sampling, now will it be for decades, considering their vast unemployment and ignorances. You can't put that over on us here. We know better. China is not the land of geniuses. What a load of crap. That's like trying to impute that India is the land of a billion geniuses.

Anyway, we wish our own homeland, not just to be treated reasonably civilly by White half-breeds, so that's a negligible, mostly uninteresting point, for our purposes. Why do half-breeds troll here? This is a White forum. There are mixed race forums where you can chat. Go tell them how evil we are. We can use the rep.

Anyway, we wish our own homeland, not just to be treated reasonably civilly by White half-breeds, so that's a negligible, mostly uninteresting point, for our purposes. Why do half-breeds troll here? This is a White forum. There are mixed race forums where you can chat. Go tell them how evil we are. We can use the rep.

Because they're a bunch of brainwashed fools. I wish they had the mentality that most of you had about race. (then again, I'm sure you wished most whites had your mentality, as well)

I don't consider myself a "troll". Let me put it this way: I'd rather see some sort of WN goverment in charge of European nations or America right now than the current ways.

I have perceived that they are almost always most comfortable with other Asiatics, not Whites.

Unfortunately, you're right. I've even seen them try to "out asian" each other to impress asians. It's pathetic. But when I was in Japan and Thailand, I can say that the situation is reversed. I believe it's based on the majority population in which they reside.

Because they're a bunch of brainwashed fools. I wish they had the mentality that most of you had about race. (then again, I'm sure you wished most whites had your mentality, as well)

I don't consider myself a "troll". Let me put it this way: I'd rather see some sort of WN goverment in charge of European nations or America right now than the current ways.
I'll give you more credit then. What's your Asiatic half? Chinese or Japanese?

Commander Schoep says he is not overly partial to this place cause of the antis. Maybe you're, in the technical sense, not an anti. Be sure to urge your other Eurasians to get behind White racism bigtime. We'd like that. LOL. Here, you can listen to Jeff Schoep speak.
http://real.morriscomm.com:8080/ramgen/cjonline/2002/1-schoep082402.rm
--------------------------------
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On another subject, CAL is rightaway wasting no time in rolling out his touting of "The New Orleans Protocol". Is that kinda like Malta, "The Monroe Doctrine" or "The Treaty Of Versailles"? I'd much rather hear "Don said...". I tell you, the pomposity reminds me of the time in the early 70's when I once bought a pair of trousers at a haberdasher's on Polk street in San Francisco. "Never again", as they say.
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1075691&postcount=263
Listen To Don Black's New Orleans Speech
To Find Out Why His Site Has 676 Folks Online
[/b

On Sunday, May 30th, 2004, some of the world's top White racialist leaders promulgated The New Orleans Protocol. The first two standards of The New Orleans Protocol were: 1). Zero tolerance for illegality & violence, and; 2). Insistence on the high road of high moral tone.

You can listen now (at www.DavidDuke.com) to Don Black's enthusiastic endorsement of The New Orleans Protocol. Stormfront's Don Black was one of the five top White Nationalist leaders comprising the closing panel of the conference on Sunday.

Most of those IQ tests were given to Asian immigrants to the US. Especially the northern ones were the cream of the crop in their home countries. I seriously doubt a fairly representative IQ test was given in mainland China. Most of China's brightest have moved to the booming sea coast cities and Taiwan.

I'll give you more credit then. What's your Asiatic half? Chinese or Japanese?

I am 50% German, 10% French, and 40% Vietnamese. My mom was 1/8 white, (she was in N.Vietnam). Maybe that's why I have green eyes.


Commander Schoep says he is not overly partial to this place cause of the antis. Maybe you're, in the technical sense, not an anti.

It didn't take much for me to change. A few college classes and research papers (by a Jewish professor, ironically.) I started thinking: Affirmative action makes no sense. It's racism disguised as anti-racism.

Then I realiized how pretty much every group can get away with being ethnocentric....except for whites. I consider myself a westerner (even if I am not fully white), and I'll be damned if I am going to let Islam and the 'darker races' pillage Europe or America.

Japan has some smart immigration laws, however, as there are hoardes dying to get in yet they've maintained a 99.6% homogeneity in their country.

I am against all forms of genocide, and that includes cultural genocide. And that's exactly what an excess of minorities are going to do Western Society. I apply this standard to all countries. If tons of whites were pouring into asia or the middle east, I would also oppose this, because they may very well change the culture in a country in which they do not belong.

But the bottom line is that whites are NOT doing this. It's one way demographic warfare. Tons and tons of idiots pouring into Europe. It's a one way ticket, and the train ride has to stop.

That's pretty refreshing, coming from a young hapa. As we've come to believe- it seems things really are changing. Be sure to tell your friends and family. Constantly.

Be sure to tell your friends and family. Constantly.


They think I'm a bit crazy. But I keep trying to wake them up to the reality.

By the way, "Hapa" puts the emphasis on the asian side. Just semantics, but technically a half-negro/asian would also be a "hapa" and I find that insulting.

They think I'm a bit crazy. But I keep trying to wake them up to the reality.

By the way, "Hapa" puts the emphasis on the asian side. Just semantics, but technically a half-negro/asian would also be a "hapa" and I find that insulting.

Ha! What a character! Welcome Anima Eternae!

You've got a lot of stuff figured out. Too bad you don't have any place that you can really claim as your own homeland.

So you've got the race stuff figured out.... any questions about the Jews? :D

Too bad you don't have any place that you can really claim as your own homeland.


I know. It sucks. It's depressing. But I figure the biggest chance of this happening would be the sucess of an ethnocentric political movement in America. That's one of the reasons I'm not opposed to you guys.


any questions about the Jews?

Still iffy this one. I do know they have enourmous sway in the media and government (they're only 1% of the population in NA, I believe). And I do know they control the porn industry.

Even though I despise Islam, I'm very anti-Israeli. Just look at the way they treat those not like them. That's how racialist policies should NOT be implemented.

But I question whether there really is this huge hivemind of Jews. It seems to me it's more realistic that a handful who wield enormous influence, as compared to this sort of Star Trek Borg hive-mind. I really doubt Natalie Portman goes to secret Jewish meetings to plan world domination in between her movies.

http://www.duke.org/conference/saturday/duke_signs.jpg

Look. Carefully. Is ONE person under 45? That is not the future. A few of those people will be dead by the time I finish writing this and hit "submit reply". These people are ancient!

An enterprising man would have set up an adult diaper booth/Canadian drug shipmet company outside of that hall. Probably make a killing.

Wrinkles, bald spots, and grey hair is not the future. If Duke wants old folks to support him, great. They are notorious for being easily parted from their money. Its called televangelism.

Some would say the old folks could provide money, I suppose this is true.

However, some say they can provide insight, leadership, or experience. This is...to be civil, pure poppycock! :D

Last I checked it was their generation who really f****d over mine. Integration happened on their watch. So did the final strangleholds of jewish power in government, religion, and media.

While some I can easily imagine sipping tea and chatting happily with those old biddies, such as that creepy f****t CAL, I'd much rather throw my chips in with the NOI.

The hell with "the greatest generation", a tarnished crown worn askew and given by the jews. They sold us out so many times, they will do it again.

Let Duke pull an Oral Roberts on those geezers. More power to him.

However, don't call the geriatric ward in the photo "the future".

Oh, and here's an aftherthought, be thankful you weren't allowed to attend Chain n' Linder. The stench of mothballs and impending death would have been annoying, and I cannot fathom either of you being able to tolerate that Birch-esque drivel for long.

That's funny and I totaly agree. People complain here about other WNs wearing uniforms and then suck up to someone who admits he stole money from WNs to go golf, gamble and then spend his time in the gym. Fak I'm a woman and I could bench press 350 if other people paid my bills and I hung out at the gym all day~! ;)

Still iffy this one. I do know they have enourmous sway in the media and government (they're only 1% of the population in NA, I believe). And I do know they control the porn industry.

Even though I despise Islam, I'm very anti-Israeli. Just look at the way they treat those not like them. That's how racialist policies should NOT be implemented.

But I question whether there really is this huge hivemind of Jews. It seems to me it's more realistic that a handful who wield enormous influence, as compared to this sort of Star Trek Borg hive-mind. I really doubt Natalie Portman goes to secret Jewish meetings to plan world domination in between her movies.

Well, this is a question every thinking WN confronts at some point. Of course it's ridiculous to think of some über-meeting of Jews that plans everything out in advance. But you had an interesting choice of words there.... "hivemind". I think that's actually a really good way of putting it. Bees and ants don't have meetings to decide what to do.. they just do it instinctually.

I'm reminded of an old Dr. William Pierce broadcast. I can't remember the name of it exactly, but it was something like "The fable of the duck and the snake". I can't remember the animals, but one of them was a swimming animal, and I'm pretty sure the other one was a snake. Anyway, the snake asks the duck to take him across the river on his back. The duck agrees, but is careful to make the snake promise not to bite him. The snake promises. Then, halfway across the river, the snake bites the duck and poisons him. The duck dies, and the snake drowns too. Now the question is: why did the snake bite the duck? The answer is: Because it was in the snake's nature to do so.

At first I thought this parable was pretty dumb, and I guess I still kind of do, but it does its job: it illustrates a point. The point is, we as humans have instinctual behaviors, and many of these instinctual behaviors are socially based. People who have been blind since birth will still use their hands to cover their faces in embarassment, even though they have never seen anyone else do so. Jews have their own set of instincts.

As a half-Asian, perhaps you have a fundamentally different set of instincts from Whites. I readily believe that the Japanese have their own set of instincts and a fundamentally different worldview from Whites. As much as I respect and admire Japanese culture and every Japanese person I've ever met, I realize that I can *never* understand them on more than a superficial level. There's something there that can never "click" with me. And I think that the same goes for Whites to Japanese. There has been a lot of mutual exchange in the past century or so, with both cultures coming to know the other pretty well. Too well in the case of the Japanese knowing American/White culture, I'd say. Anyway, there is much common ground between Japanese and Whites and much that each race can find admirable about the other, but there's still a fundamental gulf that cannot be bridged.

It's the same way with the Africans. Think of how you talk to a child, and how different the world seems to a child. A child interacts with the world in a fundamentally different way from an adult. Mentally, that is the same state for most adult Africans. They simply see the world differently on a very fundamental level. In fact, I would characterize much stereotypical African behavior as "childish", from the aggression and temper tantrums to the exuberant playfulness.

So, is it so difficult to believe that this Jewish "conspiracy" is really just Jews acting as Jews must? Jews are pretty unique in world history for all of their movement and persecution. They have formed a very clique-ish identity. It is an identity very much determined by an 'insider/outsider' viewpoint. It leads Jews to consider themselves as very different from all other humans. It's not too much of a step for them to consider themselves *above* all other humans: more moral, more God-like, "chosen". Not that I don't think that there *are* a few meetings now and then. And even among Jews, there is disagreement about exactly what is best for the Jews. BUT -- that idea that they *must* do whatever is best for the Jews as a whole -- that's the universal.

Really, I can't fault the Jews for that. Putting our group above all others is something that we WNs are going to have to do ourselves. It's just that currently we've got the short end of the stick, and the Jews have all the power. They are acting in their way to further their own existence, and if we don't respond to their attack, then we'll die. It's the same as it always is in nature. You can't fault the wolf for attacking the moose, but you also can't fault the moose for using its antlers to defend itself and kill the wolf. It's our job as WNs to awake the sleeping moose and prepare him to use his antlers (to take a lame metaphor too far).

I see what you mean. Good post. However, what about so called 1/4 and even 1/2 jews who just look white? Can we be sure they would surely act as you predict?

I believe genetics play a role in intelligence in behaviour, but I do not think it is an unavoidable destiny.

And on a side note, the Eurasian forum at which I post has a moderator who is freaking half-paki half arab. Eurasian my ass.

And even members of my own "race" are hating on my avatar (same one as here) simply because I have green (hazel?) eyes, (and not the oh so boring brown eyes that most people have).

Seems like there's a bit of reforming to be done amongst everyone. Infighting gets you nowhere.

Easy to say, hard to do. You wanna convince all the races to stay in their lands? Go ahead and try. Nah, its going to keep getting worse and worse. I'm not sure what'll happen though. Either Whites will simply wuss out and let themselves be exterminated or there will be a "race war". Either way, if Whites go, so will the Earth.

If you kick the lot of them out and they have no where else to go, they'll either destroy themselves or work to make their own societies better.

Either way, you win. Anti-immigration platforms are gaining momentum in Europe. Hopefully, their time is limited. But corporate/government types are also helping the immigrants because it's cheap exploitable labor.

I see what you mean. Good post. However, what about so called 1/4 and even 1/2 jews who just look white? Can we be sure they would surely act as you predict?

Well, see, that's the thing, and it really gets to the heart of whether someone becomes a Nationalist or not. It's a matter of statistical understanding.

We all know the IQ distributions of (say) Blacks vs. Whites. We're all perfectly aware that there are a certain number of Blacks who are smarter than a certain number of Whites. There's even a certain number of Blacks who are smarter than 95% of Whites. It's a fact. However, when you look at the distributions and the probabilities, and you have to make a policy decision based on those, you come to the conclusion that Blacks and Whites should be separated. Why? Because even though there's a *chance* that a Black could be just as smart as a White, it's only a very small one. You're much better off rolling your dice with the White genes.

Many people don't understand this. They don't understand that society is a very large mass of people, and that the characteristics and behavior of large masses can be predicted by statistics. Too many people are too individualistic in their thinking: "I know a smart black, so they're all okay." Okay, that's fine, and I'm sure the black person they know is actually smart, but that doesn't change the societal situation a single bit. Of course the societal situation is what actually *matters*. Too many people are willing to let individual exceptions decide their policy.

So, now we come back to Jews and their behavior. Like all inherited traits, there is a wide spectrum to Jewish behavior. Some Jews may act not at all "Jewish" and others may act very "Jewish". But, on the whole, given any Jew, is he going to act Jewish? Yes. Given any half-Jew, how much more likelier is he to act Jewish than a non-Jewish White? Given any quarter- or eighth-Jew, how much likelier is he to act Jewish than a non-Jewish White?

Of course I don't know the answers here, but the point is clear. At one point it doesn't make sense to rule out partial Jewish blood, but at one point it does. We know that there is a point where we say "Yes, this person is too likely to act Jewish" and there is also a point where we say "No, this person is not significantly more likely to act Jewish." So, it becomes a matter of choosing someplace in the middle. There's also a cost associated with researching and finding out how much Jewish blood a person has, and these costs rise as you decrease the proportion of Jewishness. Taking all this into account, the Nazis chose 1/4 Jewish. If you were 1/4 Jew or less, you could stay in the Third Reich and be counted as a German. More than that, and you were a Jew. This seems pretty reasonable to me and to most WNs that I've talked to, although I wouldn't be against raising the standard to 1/8th.

So, now we come back to Jews and their behavior. Like all inherited traits, there is a wide spectrum to Jewish behavior. Some Jews may act not at all "Jewish" and others may act very "Jewish". But, on the whole, given any Jew, is he going to act Jewish? Yes. Given any half-Jew, how much more likelier is he to act Jewish than a non-Jewish White? Given any quarter- or eighth-Jew, how much likelier is he to act Jewish than a non-Jewish White?


But IQs and test scores are different from learned social traits. If I abducted a newborn jewbaby, and raised him completely oblivious to his jewness, are you going to claim he would actas the rest of jews would?

I would think he would act almost exactly as the society group he was raised in (provided he looked white enough, which is possible with the ashkenazis). From what I have learned, the jewish mentality is really just ethnocentricism gone wrong. Perhaps we just have different views of genetics.

I use genetics as an indication of intelligence and some behavioural patterns (violence, rape), not complex enough to plot the destruction of western society.

But IQs and test scores are different from learned social traits. If I abducted a newborn jewbaby, and raised him completely oblivious to his jewness, are you going to claim he would actas the rest of jews would?

I would think he would act almost exactly as the society group he was raised in (provided he looked white enough, which is possible with the ashkenazis). From what I have learned, the jewish mentality is really just ethnocentricism gone wrong. Perhaps we just have different views of genetics.

I use genetics as an indication of intelligence and some behavioural patterns (violence, rape), not complex enough to plot the destruction of western society.

You're right: there's no such complicated instinctual behavioral pattern as plotting the destruction of western society. It's a much more subtle behavioral pattern, one of learning what provokes people in the surrounding (non-Jewish) mass of society, and learning how to push the right buttons and gradually destroy the surrounding societal conventions, because that's the Jew's modus operandi.

And yes I believe that a Jew (one of the majority of Jews who's genetically inclined to act Jewish) who was stolen away as an infant and raised not to know about his Jewish heritage would still grow up to be a troublemaker, a provocateur, an asshole, a contrarian, a scofflaw. He'd instinctually gauge when he was getting on people's nerves, and just how much he could get on their nerves before he crossed the line into dangerous territory. He'd know which bounds and mores he could step over, just to irritate people. He'd know how to make people laugh uncomfortably, telling off-color jokes that, while funny and/or true, are just a little bit beyond what most White people are willing to tell. In short, he'd be willing to break societal boundaries, because it's in his behavioral instincts to do so.

You can see how a mass of people like this will gradually ruin any host society. They'll find holes and inconsistencies in the laws, doing anything they can to twist around the words of the law in order to completely eviscerate its spirit. They'll protest this, that, and the other, playing on the host society's natural feelings of justice. They'll gradually push boundaries -- very gradually. First they'll show a Black man and a White woman in the same movie. Then in the same scene. Then in the same frame. Then close to each other. Then some sort of interaction -- exchanging a package or a business card. Then a bit closer. And so on and so on until we've got interracial pornography on our television screens in prime-time. They'll continually break the boundaries in a million tiny ways, until the boundaries cease to exist.

But IQs and test scores are different from learned social traits. If I abducted a newborn jewbaby, and raised him completely oblivious to his jewness, are you going to claim he would actas the rest of jews would?

I would think he would act almost exactly as the society group he was raised in (provided he looked white enough, which is possible with the ashkenazis). From what I have learned, the jewish mentality is really just ethnocentricism gone wrong. Perhaps we just have different views of genetics.

I use genetics as an indication of intelligence and some behavioural patterns (violence, rape), not complex enough to plot the destruction of western society.

Judaism is largely a culture of hate spread by rabbis. But there is a genetic element. Two facts: 1) jews are far more genetically related to each other than to their European hosts. 2) studies of xenophobia of babies show that jew babies are far more disturbed by the presence of non-parent strangers than Aryan babies. they have far more genetic in/out-group mentality than individualistic, cooperative, tolerant Aryans. This has political ramifications that are obvious. Jews in effect have antennae, and they work as a group. Aryans have to be trained to see the group politics involved.

Judaism is largely a culture of hate spread by rabbis. But there is a genetic element. Two facts: 1) jews are far more genetically related to each other than to their European hosts. 2) studies of xenophobia of babies show that jew babies are far more disturbed by the presence of non-parent strangers than Aryan babies. they have far more genetic in/out-group mentality than individualistic, cooperative, tolerant Aryans. This has political ramifications that are obvious. Jews in effect have antennae, and they work as a group. Aryans have to be trained to see the group politics involved.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

In the 1980s the British National Front had leaflets and posters with "He (Farrakhan) speaks for his people. We (the NF) speak for ours." Caused quite a stir at the time

NF leaders met NOI leaders and other black seperatists. Tom Metzger has also attended NOI rallies in the past.

Have a look. Though the Associated Press had a photographer at David Duke's conference, as was mentioned by some attendees, the AP has pretty much iced Duke out of coverage.

That's manipulative, nasty and petty. I know how it feels. I wish it weren't so. The Topeka White Revolution coverage got far, far greater Associated Press coverage. Many, many papers picked it up.

Duke's conference warranted top notch coverage in the major media too. I am sorry and frustrated that he did not get what he deserved.

Check google news links. An AP story was written; almost no newspapers ran it-
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&ie=ascii&q=david+duke&btnG=Search+News

Here is a few choice samples from Page 1 of the “Mueller dis-invitation” thread:
Tree-house club syndrome. I don't know much about movement politics but I think you have the right idea to ignore their snotty little disinvitation. Go, and let them react either to show some class or to show their ass.

I would crash their jewy little f***ing circlejerk and demand time at the podium!

F***-em all, Alex! Go there and stand tall! Demand your right to speak!

Where’s the outrage on this thread people? Where’s the “f*** ‘em all” attitude? Duke’s dis-invite is different from Mueller's dis-invite how?

Linder said: Duke said he felt that VNN's approach would clash with his, and I took this to mean he would feel more comfortable if we were not there.

Isn’t that exactly what Mueller felt?

Linder said: He believes we on our side should go our own way, and not worry about others, and in the long run this will produce the best results.

Isn’t that exactly what Mueller felt?

You’ll forgive this poor anti for not seeing any difference between the Mueller dis-invitation and the Duke dis-invitation. Can anyone point it out to me?

Edited by Demonica- No "4 letter words" in the Civil Forum, please

Here is a few choice samples from Page 1 of the “Mueller dis-invitation” thread:

Where’s the outrage on this thread people? Where’s the “f*** ‘em all” attitude? Duke’s dis-invite is different from Mueller's dis-invite how?

Linder said: Duke said he felt that VNN's approach would clash with his, and I took this to mean he would feel more comfortable if we were not there.

Isn’t that exactly what Mueller felt?

Linder said: He believes we on our side should go our own way, and not worry about others, and in the long run this will produce the best results.

Isn’t that exactly what Mueller felt?

You’ll forgive this poor anti for not seeing any difference between the Mueller dis-invitation and the Duke dis-invitation. Can anyone point it out to me?

Edited by Demonica- No "4 letter words" in the Civil Forum, please

Well, for one thing, Alex had a lot more to do with planning and publicizing the (Mueller) Revisionist conference... he was originally going to give a speech, right? (or am I just making all this up) Whereas with David Duke he would never have been anything more than just been a guest.

This is a new AP article, or the same one? This paper picked it up in google's news thread six hours ago.
http://www.theadvertiser.com/newsupdate/html/D7D5696F-009E-4941-9DD4-0435C7B3CD55.shtml
Duke re-emerges at Kenner rally
The Associated Press
June 1, 2004

KENNER (AP) — Fresh out of prison for bilking supporters, former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke hosted a weekend gathering of enthusiastic backers eager to hear him as he lashed out at Jews, blacks, immigrants and the “Zionist-controlled media.”

About 250 of them chanted “Duke! Duke!” as he took the stage Saturday night during his “unity and leadership conference.” None cared that he had just served time for swindling contributors out of hundreds of thousands of dollars in a direct mail scheme.

“It was essentially a political conviction,” said Paul Fromm, director of the Canadian Association for Free Expression. (A rightist, pro-Zundel site, though the AP writer was careful to omit further facts).
http://www.canadianfreespeech.com/homepage.html

The Southern Poverty Law Center, a watchdog group that monitors hate groups, has identified Fromm as a Holocaust denier and said the Memorial Day weekend conference was a gathering for like-minded white supremacists and right-wing groups.

The Web site for the Duke-founded European-American Unity and Rights Organization identified participants as leaders of Stormfront, the National Alliance and the British National Party.

“I think the congress is intended to deflect attention from Duke’s conviction for bilking his supporters and it’s a publicity stunt pure and simple to make him look like a candidate rather than a convict,” said Lance Hill,
http://x500.tcs.tulane.edu/Rcn%3DLance%20Hill,%20ou%3DSouthern%20Institute,%20ou%3DFaculty%20and%20Staff,%20o%3DTulane%20University,%20c%3DUS
director the Southern Institute for Education and Research.
http://www.southerninstitute.info/index.html
http://www.southerninstitute.info/images/hol_survivors_button.gif

Despite Duke’s legal travails, some extremists apparently still hold hope that he can unite and lead a political movement.

Don Black, the creator of Stormfront, one of the first white nationalist Internet sites, praised Duke for his political savvy.

“He’s demonstrated that he’s been the lead man in the past,” Black said. “I believe the conference represents the beginning of a viable political movement for white America.”

However, Duke repeatedly warned the audience to not allow themselves to be characterized as white supremacists and racists, and to carefully pick the words that describe themselves and the “white civil rights cause.”

“We have to be precise about how we use our words,” Duke said. “What we speak creates the world. I believe that. We have to start speaking in a way that empowers us.”

Here is a few choice samples from Page 1 of the “Mueller dis-invitation” thread:






Where’s the outrage on this thread people? Where’s the “f*** ‘em all” attitude? Duke’s dis-invite is different from Mueller's dis-invite how?

Linder said: Duke said he felt that VNN's approach would clash with his, and I took this to mean he would feel more comfortable if we were not there.

Isn’t that exactly what Mueller felt?

Linder said: He believes we on our side should go our own way, and not worry about others, and in the long run this will produce the best results.

Isn’t that exactly what Mueller felt?

You’ll forgive this poor anti for not seeing any difference between the Mueller dis-invitation and the Duke dis-invitation. Can anyone point it out to me?

Edited by Demonica- No "4 letter words" in the Civil Forum, please

Apparently you don't read VNN letters section.
http://www.vnnforum.com/main/2004b/53004letters.htm

Linder craps out! Yep...Himself lets Duke and the rest of the NA bought and paid for dupes bully him into not attending Dukes conference! A tactical error ITZ!

Oy Vey....Duke smoothes Linder over with a mere phone call, starstruck ITZ! The obstructions, hindrances and difficulties Itz!

Please Alex make calm, tranquilize yourself and be less harsh! .... relieve the anxiety and tension! Refine yourself Itz!......ohh the crudness! Ohh the unpleasantness , disagreeable,coarseness and rough to the touch you are!

Can't we just all get along! Make nice with the NOI! They will help us! Many jew are against Zionism...they be our friends, Itz!

Duke be talkin to Alex and is everything is OK! I'm convinced Itz! Nothing to see here folks...just move along!

Alex be takin care ob uz!

BS! Another jew sellout!

Steve B

Ed. Note: Not even, dude! See next letter. I be what I be, and I keep on bein'. Like I told cultist Kelso, Weenie's new best friend, he's full of s*** and I wanted to hear the nix from Duke himself. If I had not talked to Duke and felt his reservations, I would have gone down there. I will not drive 1,000 miles to be turned away, especially if the host is on our side and does not welcome me. I acted as an honorable Aryan. If Duke's afraid of my presence, or takes orders from cult-affiliated underlings when it comes to admitting people to a "unity" conference, that reflects on his judgment. I'm going to assume that Duke is misled, and give him some time to figure out what's going on. It is clearer than ever that Aryans in American need some kind of non-cult representation. The NA grows increasingly saffronic.

[Edited by Georgie: Watch your language in this section]

Apparently you don't read VNN letters section.
http://www.vnnforum.com/main/2004b/53004letters.htm

Linder craps out! Yep...Himself lets Duke and the rest of the NA bought and paid for dupes bully him into not attending Dukes conference! A tactical error ITZ!

Oy Vey....Duke smoothes Linder over with a mere phone call, starstruck ITZ! The obstructions, hindrances and difficulties Itz!

Please Alex make calm, tranquilize yourself and be less harsh! .... relieve the anxiety and tension! Refine yourself Itz!......ohh the crudness! Ohh the unpleasantness , disagreeable,coarseness and rough to the touch you are!

Can't we just all get along! Make nice with the NOI! They will help us! Many jew are against Zionism...they be our friends, Itz!

Duke be talkin to Alex and is everything is OK! I'm convinced Itz! Nothing to see here folks...just move along!

Alex be takin care ob uz!

BS! Another jew sellout!

Steve B

Ed. Note: Not even, dude! See next letter. I be what I be, and I keep on bein'. Like I told cultist Kelso, Weenie's new best friend, he's full of s*** and I wanted to hear the nix from Duke himself. If I had not talked to Duke and felt his reservations, I would have gone down there. I will not drive 1,000 miles to be turned away, especially if the host is on our side and does not welcome me. I acted as an honorable Aryan. If Duke's afraid of my presence, or takes orders from cult-affiliated underlings when it comes to admitting people to a "unity" conference, that reflects on his judgment. I'm going to assume that Duke is misled, and give him some time to figure out what's going on. It is clearer than ever that Aryans in American need some kind of non-cult representation. The NA grows increasingly saffronic.

How'd my private message concerning Edvard Munch get above it?

:confused:

Not that I care, but it's kind of strange when the sensation of "this looks familiar" dawns on you, and then you say, "oh, because I wrote it".

Is it safe to assume ALL things from VNNF are eligible to be posted to the VNN letters section Alex? If its not explicitly stated, it should be.

Edit:

I read even lower, the letter concerning CAL's Scientology past was freaking hilarious! Who knew he kissed ass and fellated his way to the elite of Scientology, then split?

"There came a day when I woke up and said, "Hey, I'm not a scientologist. This is a joke. What the hell am I doing here?" Normally, if you try to leave they make it very uncomfortable. They go after you and use all sorts of mental arm twisting to intimidate you back into the fold. So I engineered what they call a "blow" to get myself physically out of the organization. With their blessings I got a leave of absence for some kind of super project that I concocted. It was a total phony. When my leave was over, I simply remained out."

Anyone see a precedent?

How'd my private message concerning Edvard Munch get above it?

:confused:

Not that I care, but it's kind of strange when the sensation of "this looks familiar" dawns on you, and then you say, "oh, because I wrote it".

Is it safe to assume ALL things from VNNF are eligible to be posted to the VNN letters section Alex? If its not explicitly stated, it should be.

Edit:

I read even lower, the letter concerning CAL's Scientology past was freaking hilarious! Who knew he kissed ass and fellated his way to the elite of Scientology, then split?

"There came a day when I woke up and said, "Hey, I'm not a scientologist. This is a joke. What the hell am I doing here?" Normally, if you try to leave they make it very uncomfortable. They go after you and use all sorts of mental arm twisting to intimidate you back into the fold. So I engineered what they call a "blow" to get myself physically out of the organization. With their blessings I got a leave of absence for some kind of super project that I concocted. It was a total phony. When my leave was over, I simply remained out."

Anyone see a precedent?

I was wondering what that Edvard Munch letter was all about. Truthfully, it went right over the top of my head.

By the way...my letter to Alex was not meant to insult although it probably appears to most to be so.

Every once is a while I like to give Alex a hard time for the simple reason it brings out the best in him!

Isn?t that exactly what Mueller felt?

No, it's not. Mueller invited Linder, supplied him with a free ticket, and VNN promoted the conference for months. Mueller said he personally wanted Alex to attend, but that financial pressure was applied behind the scenes by "backers" on whom he depended. The conference was then canceled, a new one organized, no disinvitation, and Alex attended.



You?ll forgive this poor anti for not seeing any difference between the Mueller dis-invitation and the Duke dis-invitation. Can anyone point it out to me?

The difference is that Alex was invited to the Mueller conference, that his presence was desired by Mueller, the conference organizer, that the disinvitation was involuntary, coerced from "behind the scenes" by financial pressure, and that travel costs were already paid by VNN supporters.

David Duke told Alex plainly that he was not to attend, on the grounds that "his message would conflict," reflecting the image of Linder supplied to Duke, Alex thinks, by Strom, Kelso, etc. So why cause a conflict? Why show up where you're not wanted by the guest of honor, who's being welcomed home? Why disrupt an otherwise great and important event? You who are saying Alex should have showed up there are wrong. It makes no sense, whether Duke was simply acting on a wrong impression fed him or whether he genuinely does not like Alex. Especially if it's the former, which Alex is assuming and giving Duke the benefit of the doubt. But even if it was Duke's own choice, it would make no sense not to respect that and show up there unwanted. Those suggesting this show a marked negro mentality, or, in Glex's case, a likely desire to hurt Linder, which showing up there unwanted undoubtedly would have.

As he is the guest of honor, I told him to rest easy, if he feels that way, it is better that we not attend.

How Christian:

Seventh Sunday of Pentecost

Our Yokes Rest Easy when Jesus Pulls the Load Beside Us

Matthew 11: 16 - 19, 25 - 30

Luke 10: 21, 22

http://www.sundayschoollessons.com/pent6mles.htm

See also:

Matthew 5 39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=Matt+5:39

First a civil forum, now this. Unf*****believable! [edited by Franco]

Linder didn’t seem overly concerned about who he was hurting when he showed up at the Mueller conference, did he? Why is he suddenly concerned about it now?

Mueller didn't show up at "his" conference. I had no intent to damage either conference, it was the lying cultist Strom-associate Kelso who pretended I did.

If I had been on the speaker's roster and THEN been canceled, I would have attended regardless of what Duke or Kelso or anybody felt.

Duke doesn't define "unity," but his actions suggests he thinks he can. What he lost by my not attending was a good report on what actually happened. The fact is that too many in our 'movement' are girlishly sensitive to criticism, and this attitude predominates among the soi-disant high-roaders.

A. Linder

[i accidentally edited rather than replied, making it appear glex wrote what i did.]

So did Mueller. Clearly Mueller’s backers thought the message would conflict. And yet in that case, Alex was more than ready to crash the party, at VNNforum’s urging, by the way. But are you telling me that if Linder was originally invited, then had been dis-invited by Duke, we’d see the same fiery Linder “determined to show up and shove it down their throats”, as we did at the Mueller conference? Bull.


Exactly my question. Why, in the case of the Mueller conference, did Linder decide to cause a conflict?


Exactly my question. Why, in the case of the Mueller conference, did Linder decide to show up when he was not wanted?


Exactly my question. Why, in the case of the Mueller conference, did Linder decide to disrupt an otherwise great and important event?


Actually no one is saying that at all. That’s my point. The silence is deafening.

But I’ll tell you what I am saying. I’m saying that Alex Linder is a hypocrite. He should not have gone to the Mueller conference, just like he should not go to the Duke conference. And for the exact same reasons in both cases. He wasn’t invited!



Exactly my point. Alex should not have gone to the Mueller conference. As you said “ it would make no sense not to respect that and show up there unwanted.” And yet he did, didn’t he? Alex went to Mueller’s conference, uninvited and was applauded here. But now, Alex decides to respect the wishes of the conference holders. Why?


Linder didn’t seem overly concerned about who he was hurting when he showed up at the Mueller conference, did he? Why is he suddenly concerned about it now?

Look. The differences between the situations are very clear. I don't have all the details exactly right because I don't have 5 hours to wade through all those threads, but here goes.

Revisionist (Mueller) conference: Alex had long been invited. Maybe not as a guest of honor, but at least as someone who would be helping to run and/or promote the conference. Alex had been promoting the conference for months on VNN. He already had his plane ticket in hand when he was suddenly disinvited, and the organizer of the conference admitted that it wasn't his wish to do so but rather the wishes of shadowy sponsors.

Duke conference: Alex had never been invited, nor had he been specifically disinvited. He was not actively involved on the promotion of the conference, nor was he ever listed on the conference website as a speaker or attendee. He did not have any specific plans to go until the last minute. He would have driven to New Orleans with Chain. Chain's involvement probably threw a bunch of other political stuff into the mix.... if Alex had just gone by himself and without announcing anything on-line, he probably would not have had any trouble getting into the conference as an attendee (just my opinion). But as things turned out, David Duke himself (the organizer of the conference) believed that Alex would make trouble there, and so he asked Alex not to show up.

So, to recap the differences:

1) Specific Invitation to Alex:
Mueller Conference: yes
Duke Conference: no

2) Long-term Plans to Attend (plane tickets, etc.):
Mueller Conference: yes
Duke Conference: no

3) Alex/VNN Promoted Event:
Mueller Conference: yes
Duke Conference: no

4) Conference Organizer personally doesn't want Alex:
Mueller Conference: no
Duke Conferenfe: yes

Capiche?

Here is a few choice samples from Page 1 of the “Mueller dis-invitation” thread:

You’ll forgive this poor anti for not seeing any difference between the Mueller dis-invitation and the Duke dis-invitation. Can anyone point it out to me?

Edited by Demonica- No "4 letter words" in the Civil Forum, please

Many differences. Mueller invited me himself, sent a complimentary ticket for our promoting his show. A supporter sent me a non-refundable ticket. There's no way I wasn't going regardless of the fact that Taylor and Kelso did not want me there. I went, and as expected, most did want me there.

Duke did not want me attending his "Unity" conference, I suspect mostly because of what he has heard about us from Scientologist/cultist-of-many-colors Jamie Kelso and Don Black, who apparently has whined to him about criticism here. That is Duke's prerogative. I was never on the official speaker's list, and since Duke didn't want me to go, I didn't want to go. It reflects poorly on David Duke and his judgment and the people he surrounds himself with, in my view, and I think in the view of most.
It was a "small" rather than a "big" decision. Kelso is someone Duke and Strom are extremely foolish to be involved with.

Time has a way of sorting these things out.

I will be writing a reaction to the ideas in the speeches at the Duke show once I've finished listening to them.

Mueller didn't show up at "his" conference. I had no intent to damage either conference, it was the lying cultist Strom-associate Kelso who pretended I did.

If I had been on the speaker's roster and THEN been canceled, I would have attended regardless of what Duke or Kelso or anybody felt.

Duke doesn't define "unity," but his actions suggests he thinks he can. What he lost by my not attending was a good report on what actually happened. The fact is that too many in our 'movement' are girlishly sensitive to criticism, and this attitude predominates among the soi-disant high-roaders.

I apologize, Glex. I had meant to 'reply' to your post, but I accidentally edited it instead. The words in the post above are mine, not Glex's.

Hello Alex,

as a relative newcomer to the US nationalist scene, I am intrigued to hear as to why you were 'banned' from the New Orleans conference. I have been involved in British nationalism since I came out of the British Army in 1976.

I myself , have 'suffered the strings and arrows of great misfortune' by Nick Griffin since early 2001.

I am a supporter and friend of JohnTyndall.

What were the reasons for your exclusion ?

What do you think of the 'New Orleans Protocol' ?

Hello Alex,

as a relative newcomer to the US nationalist scene, I am intrigued to hear as to why you were 'banned' from the New Orleans conference. I have been involved in British nationalism since I came out of the British Army in 1976.

I myself , have 'suffered the strings and arrows of great misfortune' by Nick Griffin since early 2001.

I am a supporter and friend of JohnTyndall.

What were the reasons for your exclusion ?

What do you think of the 'New Orleans Protocol' ?

My exclusion was politics. The NA clique fears me, as they fear anyone with a head who takes an honest look at who and what they are. Like I've said a hundred times, they're totalitarians. They seek to control every aspect of their members lives, to the extent they can. Strom's signing up with Kelso, a guy who has flipped back and forth among cults his entire life, shows you the direction they're really headed, as opposed to the pretty things they write for public consumption. I can't help but note the tone-deafness in naming a protocol promoting decorum and non-violence after the least decorous and most violent city in America. These guys are amateurs.

A final observation is that "our" government neither follows the law nor refrains from violence, so why should I sign something promising to bring a knife to a gunfight? The best policy with regard to violence is to say nothing.

Just for fun I was looking through a couple of forums to see which threads have been viewed the most, and this thread is pretty high on the list. There's lots of good information here, from the first posts and onward, so I hope newcomers to the forum will take the chance to read it.

Would be interesting to hear an update on this situation, if something new would come up.

Just for fun I was looking through a couple of forums to see which threads have been viewed the most, and this thread is pretty high on the list. There's lots of good information here, from the first posts and onward, so I hope newcomers to the forum will take the chance to read it.

Would be interesting to hear an update on this situation, if something new would come up.

Thanks for the bump, _DC_. I haven't spent much time on the Civil Forum and must have been out of town or something during the week when this thread blossomed because I missed it entirely till now. Good stuff, worth spending an hour or so reading.

I hear Duke fired Kelso recently, primarily because his girlfriend had had enough of sharing their home with him. Isn't there always a female at the root of these shakeups? I also that David hired him back after agreeing to put him in another house, then took off for Europe again. I also hear that Duke had a major blowup with Willis Carto and with Eustice Mullins at his conference last month. These are rumors as far as I know, but I expect that there have been lots of adjustments in the relationships of those who attended the so-called Unity conference in New Orleans.