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HenryHaysExecutioner
December 13th, 2003, 09:56 PM
EXPOSING THE DRESDEN DECEPTION
An Open Response to Ernst Zundel's"Z-Gram" of February 13, 1999
by
THE MAD REVISIONIST
> February 13, 1999
>
> Good Morning from the Zundelsite:
>
> Today is "Dresden Day."
Apparently Mr. Zundel is unaware that recent research conducted by the courageous and politically incorrect truth-seekers of THE MAD REVISIONIST has revealed startling evidence that the bombing of Dresden and other German cities during the conflict known as World War II is in fact an elaborate German propaganda hoax.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that a few buildings might not have burned down, and that maybe a few people weren't singed or even killed as a result. But revisionists are scorned, and even laughed at, when we ask difficult questions about what really caused the tragedy, and how many people were really killed. Meanwhile, so many establishment lies about this alleged event have been exposed by revisionist research that its hard to take the normatively accepted version seriously.

Take the fact that there are numerous memorial sites in Germany that supposedly mark "mass graves" of civilians alleged to have been killed in these so-called "bombings". Yet not one of these sites have ever been excavated and subjected to impartial forensic examination to confirm that they contain what they are alleged to contain. Appalling, is it not? These Dresden hoaxers obviously have something to hide.

> Fifty-four years ago today, the city of Dresden, which had no strategic
> military significance at all and which had become a huge refugee city for
> civilians fleeing the Red Terror, became a huge fireball in the fiercest
> Allied terror bombing ever.

Indeed, the city of Dresden had no military or strategic significance. Is it therefore not the least bit fishy that the Dresden hoaxers expect you to believe the ridiculous notion that the Allies, while fighting a war that they intended to win, would waste valuable military resources on it?

> David Irving has written about the Dresden Holocaust, and it is a book well
> worth reading - and one you will never forget.
>
> It is estimated by some that as many as 350,000 - 600,000 victims were
> incinerated beyond being identifiable or even recognizable as human remains
> in that Holocaust. Only 35,000 could be identified.

Ah, so only 35,000 victims could be identified, and yet Zundel expects us to believe that another 350,000-600,000 people (why does the number vary so widely, hmmm?) were killed as well, simply because they are unaccounted for. How gullible does he think we are? Does he offer any proof to support this absurd number?

> Many of the pictures that people were served up as "pyres of gassed Jews"
> from Auschwitz and elsewhere in early Allied "atrocity flicks" are, in
> fact, photographs the Wehrmacht took of German victims of the Allied war
> crime of Dresden.

But every revisionist knows that it is physically impossible to burn bodies in open pits. That's why the photos and eyewitness testimonies of Jews being burned outside the kremas at Auschwitz must be fakes, right? So it serves as proof, as well, that the Dresden bombing is a hoax.

> The War Department, describing another city, Hamburg, described how people
> died in such a firestorm:
>
> "Literally hundreds of people were seen leaving shelters after the heat
> became intense. They ran across the street and were seen to collapse very
> slowly like people who were utterly exhausted. They could not get up."
>
> A reporter, Melitta Maschman, wrote of what happened in the City of Darmstadt:

Well, I suppose it is accurate to refer to Melita Maschmann (correct spelling) as a reporter at the time of the bombing. Though it would, perhaps, be more accurate to say that she was a reporter for the Bund Deutscher Madel. In fact, it would be more accurate still to say that she was the head of the BDM Press and Propaganda division in Berlin from 1943 until the end of the war. Interesting how Mr. Zundel is willing to, er, prune information that might cast doubt on the reliability and objectivity of his sources. Particulary when the source in question, in her memoir (Account Rendered: a Dossier on my Former Self) written after the war, was quite open in describing how the Nazis used to brainwash German youth.

> "There was not a house anywhere in the street which had not turned into a
> blazing firebrand. Above the sea of flames, a glowing cyclone raged over
> the town, and whenever it caught the bodies of people in flight, it
> shriveled them in a second to the size of a child, and the next day they
> lay all over the streets, hardly burnt, but like mummified children."

HBO should have saved this lie for its "Tales from the Crypt" program. Preposterous nonsense! So called "eyewitness" testimonies of these alleged bombings of German cities contain so many impossibilities and discrepancies as to make the whole story unbelievable. Sure, all of the survivors pretty much agree on the point that the city was bombed by the Allies, but how reliable are survivors who also testify to "puddles of melted human flesh" and people "glowing blue (or orange) and disintegrating" - and this, in sealed bunkers which were protected from the fire. There have been so many lies told by so-called "Dresden survivors" that all of these testimonies are wide open to reasonable doubt. After all, how much can you trust people testifying against their hated enemies?

And is there a single witness who actually saw a bomb dropped from an American plane land on the city and explode? No. Not one such witness. Who could have survived to have described such a thing? All we have are rumors. I don't want to hear what people thought they heard from inside the bomb shelter, or what they figured might be going on above. I want to know what they saw.

No, the Dresden myth relies almost entirely on hostile eyewitness testimony and questionable "confessions" by those alleged to have done the dirty deed. There is not a single survivor account of the Dresden bombing that has ever stood up to hostile cross-examination, and I challenge you to find one.

> These German victims' wartimes stories are not known. They left no diaries.
>
> They perished in the flames of the devastating inferno of March 16, 1945 -
> among the thousands of victims of this Allied atrocity the following women
> and children named "Anna":

<snip: list of names>

> I would like you to honor and remember these German victims of a deliberate
> Allied policy with genocidal overtones in a few moments' worth of silence.

While I'm sure that Mr. Zundel considers it good history to tug at the heart strings in the hopes of disabling our ability to think rationally and critically, this tactic will not work any better than the diary of Anne Frank. It stands that he has yet to show us one proof... one single proof... that any one of these persons died as a result of Allied bombs.

In light of the fact that I have shown that the Dresden story has no non-biased eyewitnesses and no conclusive physical evidence, it appears that alternative explanations for the destruction are entirely plausible. It could have been caused by someone smoking in bed (smoking is more common in continental Europe than it is in, say, North America). Also, it is entirely plausible that the German Air Force bombed the city themselves by accident (as they did to Freiburg), and then tried to cover up their heinous error by blaming the disaster on their hated enemies.

Its not looking good for the Dresden hoaxers now. Where is the proof that this city was bombed by the Allies? Considering the gravity of the charges, is it really so much to ask?

Back to THE MAD REVISIONIST (http://www.revisionism.nl/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)

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HenryHaysExecutioner
December 13th, 2003, 09:58 PM
Subject: Re: Re. Moon Story Has NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE! (almost repost)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:05:48 +0100
From: The Mad Revisionist <madrev@reptiles.org>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism

David wrote:

> > > I should add that Madrev's figure of around 900,000 'murders' at Treblinka is
> > > interesting. Nizkor is a lot less specific, putting the total between 700,000 and
> > > 1,000,000. These figures do seem to vary rather a lot.
> >
> > Your point? According to Zundel's recent Z-gram the number of persons estimated
> > to have been killed at the *alleged* bombing of Dresden varies from 350,000 - 600,000.
> > These numbers seem to vary rather a lot. Does this discrepancy prove "reasonable
> > doubt" in the case of Dresden too?
>
> In the case of Dresden about 35000 people were identified as killed. How
> many others were killed and vanished beyond trace is unknown.

Oh, I see. So only 35,000 people can be proven to have been killed, but you're asking us to accept that just because another 315,000 - 585,000 are unaccounted for (and you still haven't explained why the number varies so widely), we can simply ASSUME that they were killed too? I want you to think very carefully about the implications of this assertion.

> Do an experiment, Madrev. Get a large WWII bomb and sit on it while someone
> detonates it. You will observe that not much of you remains to be identified.

Let's do another experiment, while we're at it, further to your earlier statement, in the face of the quantities of ash found outside the kremas of Auschwitz, "how do we know whose ashes they were?": Take a body and cremate it to ash. How much of it is left to be identified? If you will not accept this as an answer to your question, why should I accept the above as support for your Dresden story? What proof do you really have that people were killed in such a way?

You seem to be telling me that just because the evidence to prove your point could not be expected to exist, we must accept the point as proven. Sorry, no excuses. If you cannot find concrete physical evidence to support your absurd 10x - 20x exaggeration of 350,000 to 600,000 killed, I'm afraid there is reasonable doubt as to the veracity of the traditional Dresden story.

Never mind the fact that you don't even have any proof to support the scenario alleged in your little experiment above. Where is the evidence that even ONE bomb was dropped by the Allies on the city of Dresden. And don't offer me hostile eyewitnesses, who would have every reason to lie in order to implicate their enemies. These people have proven notoriously unreliable - revisionists such as myself have exposed numerous *proven lies* told by so-called "Dresden survivors".

All I ask for is one proof... one single proof... give it your best shot.

--

HenryHaysExecutioner
December 13th, 2003, 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Phillips & Mock. Where do we go from here?
Date: 10 May 1998 08:20:06 GMT
From: schultr@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz)
Organization: Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
In my view, nothing occurred at Dresden during the war for the simple reason that there *is* no Dresden. I have yet to see any evidence that there ever was a city of so-called "Dresden" other than from obviously faked photographs and fictional "recollections." The existence of a "Dresden Staatskapelle" no more proves the existence of the city than the existence of the "Philharmonia Orchestra" proves the existence of a city called "Philharmonia." Indeed, a plausible explanation for the insanity that plagued the composer Robert Schumann toward the end of his life was that he was named director of the "Dresden Staatskapelle" and went crazy in a Kafkaesque attempt to find the city!

-----
Richard Schultz
Department of Chemistry
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad."

HenryHaysExecutioner
December 13th, 2003, 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: Dresden Inquiry Welcomed!
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:55:09 +0300
From: The Mad Revisionist <madrev@reptiles.org>
Organization: Serious Research, Inc.
To: kenzo@bhip.infi.net

kenzo@bhip.infi.net wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I enjoyed visiting your site and found it very entertaining,
> indeed. Being the relative of fire-bombed victims at Dresden, I fully
> agree with the need for a full **public** investigation and encourage
> free and open debate on the issue, including, but not limited to
> scientific/forensic studies. Now, if we can just get the holoCOST
> promotion fanatics to forget about their BILLIONS in "reparations" and
> the building of wax museum monuments, and agree to the same policy of
> free inquiry and discussion, then we will have accomplished a miracle!
> Are you with me on this?? Will you challenge them? I await your reply!
> Sincerely,
>
> Ken Fremont

THE MAD REVISIONIST replies:

Indeed. There must be free and open inquiry over both the Holocaust and Dresden hoaxes, with no preconceived notions to interfere. And when both of these events are proven to be frauds, their fanatical German and Jewish perpetrators will have a lot to answer for, won't they?

It's gratifying to hear from a scholar who is willing to admit, in the interest of open debate and free scientific inquiry, that his relatives were liars who didn't really exist.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Fremont replies (Wed, 14 Apr 1999) :
Thanks much for taking time to answer my message to you and I am happy that we are in full agreement on letting full scientific inquiry decide WHO the REAL liars are and expose hoaxes where they exist. I am glad to see you are admitting to a Jewish Hoax, at last, even if you do include German victims in your charge. I realize you have a lot of hatred and bitterness in your heart. This is not an uncommon phenomenon in any country where jews have such power in mass news and entertainment media. Perhaps this is why the subversive ADL is trying desparately to get their paws on the internet via "hate-crimes" legislation. I am hoping you will have the backbone to post a challenge to the ADL hoaxters and holoCOST promotion lobby, encouraging them to stop their Stalinist censorship drive and agree to open debate on their religious dogma they are shoving down the throats of the masses world-wide. I shall keep an eye on your site and I wish you great success at exposing all liars whomever and wherever they may be.

You might be interested to know that I have been involved in intense and exaustive research into the document know as THE ANNE FRANK DIARY. What I have uncovered so far is quite startling and I shall post my findings with a challenge as soon as completed. Thanks again.

Ken

(THE MAD REVISIONIST believes that the logic and openmindedness of this response stands on its own and requires no further comment.)

HenryHaysExecutioner
December 13th, 2003, 10:05 PM
http://www.miscelle.de/andere-seite/dresden/frauenkirche-dresden.jpg

New Groundbreaking Research from Germany (http://www.miscelle.de/as/dresden/hoax.shtml)

HenryHaysExecutioner
January 8th, 2004, 01:56 PM
No one seems interested in the great Dresden deception, I wonder why?

Ossian
January 8th, 2004, 02:57 PM
Do you wonder, Hymie? Do you really?
Just to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because this thread of yours is, like most of them --to put it vulgarly but succinctly-- crap. An objective person would not likely think it even passes for amusing satire, as satire is supposed to require 'wit'.

How many millions of dollars have the [real] holocaust survivors of Dresden extorted this year, Hymie? This decade? (Quite unlike "The" [ridiculously embellished, big H]Holocaust, this actual one had very few survivors, anyway.)

How many people are in prison right now for questioning how many deaths occured in Dresden? How many ever have been imprisoned, or fined, or had their homes or businesses burned down, or lost their jobs for same?

How many people even know anything at all about Dresden or the firebombing attack upon it?

The world needs more Holocaust museums... that's right!
But instead of the kind commemorating false or exaggerated atrocities perpetrated upon the jews, like we have now, we need some which commemorate the very real, and very many (and largely unknown) atrocities commited by the jews.
Don'tcha think?

Antiochus Epiphanes
January 8th, 2004, 05:52 PM
know how the jews like to have religious holidays based on killing their enemies, like passover or hannukah or purim? how about we take their lead on this?

pissinonhitlersgrave
January 8th, 2004, 05:54 PM
know how the jews like to have religious holidays based on killing their enemies, like passover or hannukah or purim? how about we take their lead on this?

I think you're a complete tosser Antiochus :D

What do you think of that? :)

The Answer
January 9th, 2004, 12:18 AM
Do you wonder, Hymie? Do you really?
Just to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because this thread of yours is, like most of them --to put it vulgarly but succinctly-- crap. An objective person would not likely think it even passes for amusing satire, as satire is supposed to require 'wit'.

How many millions of dollars have the [real] holocaust survivors of Dresden extorted this year, Hymie? This decade? (Quite unlike "The" [ridiculously embellished, big H]Holocaust, this actual one had very few survivors, anyway.)

How many people are in prison right now for questioning how many deaths occured in Dresden? How many ever have been imprisoned, or fined, or had their homes or businesses burned down, or lost their jobs for same?

How many people even know anything at all about Dresden or the firebombing attack upon it?

The world needs more Holocaust museums... that's right!
But instead of the kind commemorating false or exaggerated atrocities perpetrated upon the jews, like we have now, we need some which commemorate the very real, and very many (and largely unknown) atrocities commited by the jews.
Don'tcha think?

This is a great example of a WN totally ignoring the post in question and simply rambling on about bullshit. He's a total fucking idiot. Ossian, I challenge you to respond intelligently to HHE's post.

Ossian
January 9th, 2004, 12:42 AM
...totally ignoring the post in question and simply rambling on about bullshit. He's a total fucking idiot.


Qui accuse, s'accuse. (He who accuses, accuses himself.)

A dishonest poster (and a dishonest website) pretends that "holocaust" revisionism is "unfair," that you can similarly disprove anything. I aptly illustrated how there is, and can be, no direct comparison between questioning "the" holocaust, versus Dresden, (or anything else for that matter.)

It is you who have failed to respond intelligently, because you cannot. Your lame insults prove that you can neither answer nor ignore me. (You would do better to at least learn the latter, since you cannot do the former.)

The Answer
January 9th, 2004, 12:59 AM
Qui accuse, s'accuse. (He who accuses, accuses himself.)

A dishonest poster (and a dishonest website) pretends that "holocaust" revisionism is "unfair," that you can similarly disprove anything. I aptly illustrated how there is, and can be, no direct comparison between questioning "the" holocaust, versus Dresden, (or anything else for that matter.)

It is you who have failed to respond intelligently, because you cannot. Your lame insults prove that you can neither answer nor ignore me. (You would do better to at least learn the latter, since you cannot do the former.)

So you have no substantive response to his post? Your point is weak...really, you're just trying to get out of making the same burden of proof for claims about Dresden. HHE called you out, and you fucking wimped out. Pussy. You have no point You can only attempt to insult me. Nothin' doing.

I can speak French too, you know. Vous n'avez rien qu'est important a dire.

Ossian
January 9th, 2004, 01:07 AM
I can speak French too, you know. Vous n'avez rien qu'est important a dire.

Unless you are going to surreptitiously go back and edit the posts you just wrote, (& one might be forgiven for thinking that's not 'out of your character') anyone can see who has actually rebutted, and who has merely attempted to insult --with emphasis on "attempt."

(FYI: It's Latin; and I don't see any reason to believe you can understand French any better than you do Latin.)

Spandau
January 9th, 2004, 02:33 AM
Dear HenryHaysExecutioner (To be known as Herr Numbnütz from here on in). I personally know two people who were in Dresden those awful two days. Some of what they told me put my hair on end. This making light of the Dresden Nightmare smells to high heaven of the Zhid to me. A typical False-Flag operation to deflect rising criticism of the HolyHoax.

Hadding
January 9th, 2004, 07:08 AM
This is a great example of a WN totally ignoring the post in question and simply rambling on about bullshit. He's a total fucking idiot. Ossian, I challenge you to respond intelligently to HHE's post.

HHE may have a point about the number of deaths at Dresden having been overstated. David Irving who wrote the book on the firebombing of Dresden has conceded that his estimate of the deathtoll at Dresden may have been too high.

What is not in dispute is that a minimum of 35,000 died there and that many thousands more died in the firebombings of other German cities, and that bombing for a maximum civilian deathtoll was Allied policy. (The idea of bombing Germany for maximum civilian casualties was originally proposed by Professor Friedrich Lindemann, a friend of Churchill's who was widely believed to be a Jew although David Irving says that he doubts it.)

I am sure that Ernst Zundel didn't intend to conceal anything significant about that one source regarding the bombing of Darmstadt. The fact that the reporter whom he cites worked for the Bund Deutscher Maedel (League of German Girls) does not detract from her credibility. Why should Germans during the war have wished to exaggerate the damage done by Allied bombings? That would not have been helpful for morale. Anyway there are many, many other witnesses with tales to tell about the British and American thousand-plane raids. HHE just picked on that one because he could make a specious controversy about it.

Most of the rest of what HHE posted in this thread is just silly and Ossian is right to judge it unworthy of a serious response.

Antiochus Epiphanes
April 6th, 2005, 04:17 PM
I think you're a complete tosser Antiochus :D

What do you think of that? :)

Did you say something?

Aryan Lord
April 10th, 2005, 01:26 PM
No one seems interested in the great Dresden deception, I wonder why?

Is it because we do not wish to give you the oxygen of attention Kike?
Are you one of the "6,000,000" that we missed?

J.P. Slovjanski
April 10th, 2005, 03:01 PM
Dresden is just one of many civilian bombings- not all were even against the Germans. Late in the war American planes bombed large residential sections of Budapest, avoiding the military targets because they were guarded by flak-guns. Watch Robert McNamara in Fog of War and he talks about the cowardice of American pilots who early in the war would abort their missions for the most frivolous reasons until Curtis LeMay forced them to fly over the target under threat of courts-martial. The story about Budapest was related to a friend of mine by a survivor of the bombings. In 1944 the Americans bombed the city of Belgrade(hardly a center of German production, troops, tanks, supply, or anything else of significance) and leveled the city far beyond the damage the Germans did in 1941. Heroic America continued its bombing campaigns, flattening North and South Vietnam(using more ordnance than in WW2), Afghanistan, Iraq(TWICE now!), and Serbia. What a heroic nation.


Another good reason to watch Fog of War is the chapter about the firebombings of Japan. McNamara said that Curtis believed that if they didn't win, they would be tried as war criminals. He then says that he believed Curtis was right because "he and I, especially I, were acting like war criminals". He then says that LeMay justified the actions by claiming that there was a moral imperitive. McNarama replies with the question: "How moral can something be if it's immoral when you lose and only not immoral if you win?"

Indeed, Robert, indeed.

How sickening it is to see modern governments wag their bloody fingers in moral condemnations of Germany. Have they stopped genocide? Have they stopped ethnic cleansing? Have they stopped any number of HUNDREDS of wars that have occurred since WW2? Have they stopped the invasion and conquest of nations or the theft of land and resources? Have they given hope of freedom to the Third World or do they continue to support dictatorships and saddle the poor nations in debt? How are the Israelis to complain about being put in concentration camps when they murdered Arabs, cleansed them from the land, and PUT THEM into concentration camps with the weapons they were GIVEN?! All so that they can have a nation that NEVER EXISTED IN THE PAST! If there was any justice in this "modern, democratic" world, the Jews would be forced to live in a small section of the mountains in Palestine and the nation would be divided up amongst the Arabs of those nations which historically ruled the land before the Greeks moved in. Just as it was over 2000 years ago!

The modern world has done nothing but expose its total lack of credibility and moral standing since WW2. It is a rapidly failing experiment that is contributing to the misery of billions worldwide. And they dare condemn Hitler. Hitler SUPPORTED REAL IRAQI FREEDOM! Indian liberation! Tibetan Independence! Hitler wanted to end the corrupt usury system that keeps much of the non-white world in poverty to this day! These moralizing bastards in our government, media, and academia don't have a leg to stand on. They are sitting on their fat, greasy asses on top of the corpses of MILLIONS of Iraqis, Arabs, Serbs, Russians, Poles, Vietnamese, Koreans, Afrikaaners, and Japanese to name a few.