Radio Host Hal Turner died this evening from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was 42.

Whomever the user "Chain" is on this forum, he/she chose to invade this particular post and EDIT it by adding his/her own disclaimer message to this post!

If moderators to this forum can simply EDIT someone else's post, without asking permission, (as opposed to moving it or deleting it) then what is to stop them from EDITING anyone's posts so as to get them in trouble with the law? What "Chain" has done is an absolute outrage!

For the record, no one who challenged the veracity of my post has even bothered to contact ME about about it via PM! What we have here is a direct alteration of a posters message without permission and without an effort to verify what was posted!
[b][color=red]

Will you please state your source?

Damn … Hal ate a bullet? Are you serious? Where’s yer proof Insider, inquiring minds wanna know?
Cheers

TG

Must be the listeners fault for not sending in enough cash.

My question exactly. I googled Hal Turner dead and got nothing.
I hope this is not true but it has a ring of likelihood.

Will you please state your source?

You heard via Aryan Nations officers who talk to someone in NJ several times daily? Who would know. And those persons relayed it to the "other side" of the quarrelling factions?

Hal did run a poll on his website on what was the best way to commit suicide. However it wouldn't surprise me if he faked his own death just to get out of the realms of racist circles. Who knows?

If true it is sad news.

No idea when tonight. Hours? Minutes? Supposedly. North Bergen police scanner,

"Listen Live":
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:z_zVIJEioFMJ:www.northbergenpd.com/indexnew.html+north+bergen%2Bnj%2Bpolice&hl=en
Police in North Bergen, New Jersey-
(201)392-2100

They rarely give out the name of a suicide victim over the radio. If anything, you would have heard EMS saying they have a Code 3 Signal 15 (assuming gunshot) at his address involving a white male. My money says Hal is fine. Just in case, I'll check the local rags to see if his name shows in the obits.

I just found out this story is totally bogus. Aryan Insider is either Hal Turner himself or a sock puppet supporter of his (whitepride456) from his old website. His only prior postings on VNN involved spamming for Hal's show or blasting Hal's former best friend, James Mazzone. You can check yourselves by looking at the previous postings by Aryan Insider.

If it's a 'wind-up' then it is sick .

Harry S, I have already PMd you. Maybe you haven't noticed. I'd appreciate the "bogus " find details by PM, if you'd be willing to communicate those.

Obviously, it's very good news that Hal is fine.

Now, about the rest of this matter...

I've edited this addendum into the first post of this thread:

This is an unsubstantiated, as yet, dubious claim. We shall see. If it turns out to be false, I won't be too forgiving, no matter if the poster was himself duped.
-Chain

Radio Host Hal Turner died this evening from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was 42.

BAHAHA that's too funny!! Okay I'll bite, where did I send in the donation?

In regard to Hal Turner: Would his demise (if true) really make any negative impact on white nationalism? My belief is that it wouldn't, any more than Matt Hale's vanishing into a nigger cage caused any turbulence. Matt Hale is gone - poof! - and almost no one gives a shit. Same for Hal. If he really is dead, his sudden death would give us something to oooo and ahhhh about for a day or two, before we forgot him just as certainly as we've forgotten Artie Wheeler and Chester Doles.

White people are few enough in the World. OK , some might have a different way of 'doing' the struggle. But who would you want around if you needed help ?

C'mon folks !

In regard to Hal Turner: Would his demise (if true) really make any negative impact on white nationalism? My belief is that it wouldn't, any more than Matt Hale's vanishing into a nigger cage caused any turbulence. Matt Hale is gone - poof! - and almost no one gives a shit. Same for Hal. If he really is dead, his sudden death would give us something to oooo and ahhhh about for a day or two, before we forgot him just as certainly as we've forgotten Artie Wheeler and Chester Doles.

speak for yourself. I did my part for doles and that showed what VNN could do. I've done a little for Matt and I sure in hell havent forgotten him. If you have that speaks to your quality not mine and not "ours" whomever "we" are.

if we have a lack of concern for each other that would correlate with our apparent lack of competence in various matters wouldnt it? so if you have any bright ideas to fix "white nationalism" chirp on up.

Hey, we had a collection for Chester late last year in Blackburn, Lancashire. Mark Cotterill chaired the meeting, and Shaun Walker was the guest speaker. We donated £100+ which is about $150. So no, it wasn't a great deal, but it's not a small effort either, for putting food on the table.

In regard to Hal Turner: Would his demise (if true) really make any negative impact on white nationalism? My belief is that it wouldn't, any more than Matt Hale's vanishing into a nigger cage caused any turbulence. Matt Hale is gone - poof! - and almost no one gives a shit. Same for Hal. If he really is dead, his sudden death would give us something to oooo and ahhhh about for a day or two, before we forgot him just as certainly as we've forgotten Artie Wheeler and Chester Doles.


Karl

I agree with AE, I think that the loss of any one of us WP folk, whatever his ‘flavor’ or stand he takes on WP issues is a damn shame. The way things are going these days, any one of us may find himself faced with ZOG harassment and imprisonment, there really are no legal protections in place anymore to speak of to cover our exercise heer in White Free Speech. Every word we post on the web, every word one of us says in protest, is in defiance of the most powerful government man has ever created on this planet in history subverted by the most banal evil humans of all time, and we are all good and upright people that rail against this evil superstate which threatens not just the White Race but all life on earth. The loss of even one of us few that stand against this monster in word, deed whatever is a tragedy of great proportions. My .02
Cheers

TG

yes. and one of the things we should do here is carefully make some personal contacts that will allow us to have the peace of mind to believe that if we are taken down by the bad guys there will be friends who seek retribution.

moreover, resistance to the bad guys in their lesser schemes shows our quality; or, in the lack of resistance, our lack of quality. so you people consider what you have done to make friends and help them. I have gained a fine kameradshaft via VNN and feel very thankful to those friends for the humble work that we have shared.

be assured ye zhid lackeys who lurk here cataloging OSINT that you will pay a price for the choices you make. the screw is turning and the smell of storms is in the air. one day penalties will be assigned, and we will say Lo how the mighty have fallen.

'Ditto' over the Big Pond AE :cool:

Check this one out... LOL!

http://www.jamesdlake.com/sql/audio/favorite-thangs.wav

The money that went for Doles flunked defence would have been better going to his wife and 11 childen. But now the lawer is laughing all the way too the bank.


The $75,000 for Chester Doles was raised despite the fact Chester KNEW he was guilty! Chester cried "persecution." Chester's family told everyone that they had some type of forms from Chester's old conviction, stating that his firearms rights were intact. Those claims made the folks in this movement donate more than $75,000 only to have it shoved up our collective butts when the family failed to produce a form saying Chester's rights were intact, and then by Chester himself pleading guilty.

The money raised for Chester Doles was completely and totally wasted. No one wants to utter this truth because the reality that we were all scammed by Chester Doles hurts too much.

Even if Hal Turner was the "scam artist" that so many in this forum claim, he was a rank amateur compared to Doles and the pro-Doles scammers who took all of us for a whole lot more money. Chester Doles took our money then went to jail anyway. Hal Turner took a bullet. Which man was _really_ the honorable one?

Hal Turner took a bullet.

It has been confirmed?

It has been confirmed?


I doubt it. What frightens me is that 'Aryan Outsider' *claims* to have access to NA after-action reports.

Notice how he shut the hell up when I told him to ask the Chairman for a first-hand account of my activism? This guy is a BS artist plain and simple.

I doubt it. What frightens me is that 'Aryan Outsider' *claims* to have access to NA after-action reports.

Notice how he shut the hell up when I told him to ask the Chairman for a first-hand account of my activism? This guy is a BS artist plain and simple.


For those unfamiliar with WhiteTruth and the issue he raises herein, let me briefly recap:

WhiteTruth made a slew of accusations against Hal Turner. He said that Turner "feigned illnesses" and "begged for money." I pointed out that Turner provided photographic proof of his illness, and also that Turner provided a SERVICE for the donations he sought. I made clear that "begging" is when someone asks for money, food or shelter without providing anything in return and therefore Hal Turner never "begged" because he provided a service.

I then challenged WhiteTruth to prove he did anything himself for our movement. He claimed he distributed fliers. Since the National Alliance is well-known for distributing fliers, I challenged WhiteTruth to specify what fliers he distributed, where and when.

WhiteTruth then cleverly hid behind this: "Ask the Chairman about my activism" meaning ask Erich Gliebe, Chairnman of the National Alliance. So here, once again, is a case where WhiteTruth cannot and will not prove anything he says!

WhiteTruth hurls accusations - without providing any proof whatsoever. When challenged to prove his own pro-white claims, he again refuses to provide any proof.

For the record, Chairman Gliebe would not be the person to speak to about NA "after-action reports." The local NA unit coordinator would have much easier access to those as opposed to Gliebe who would have to sift through AAR's from around the nation! As before, WhiteTruth is proven to be a liar.

WhiteTruth makes accusations against other pro-white people without proof and he refuses to prove his own alleged activism. Do you know why? I'll tell you:

"WhiteTruth" is actually the negro Daryle Lamont Jenkins of 32 Sanford Avenue in North Brunswick, NJ. He is "leader" of the One People's Project- a virulently anti-white group of misfits, druggies and troublemakers.

"WhiteTruth" has just been OUTED! Have a nice day.

Quite.

But has the purported suicide of Hal Turner been verified?

The money raised for Chester Doles was completely and totally wasted. No one wants to utter this truth because the reality that we were all scammed by Chester Doles hurts too much.


Anyone w/ half a brain knew he was guilty. He bragged to an informant that he had guns. Yeah he was hoodwinked but not entrapped. He was a felon and knew he was not supposed to have guns. The lawyer had ZERO recourse/defense. People in the WN movement are stupid when they give cash to defendendants who are obviously guilty.

Too bad for Hale but it is a lesson learned.

If it were a situation like WACO then I'd say hell yes let's retaliate, but so far nothing has happened like that.

Ruby Ridge?

For those unfamiliar with WhiteTruth and the issue he raises herein, let me briefly recap:

-snip-


For the record, Chairman Gliebe would not be the person to speak to about NA "after-action reports." The local NA unit coordinator would have much easier access to those as opposed to Gliebe who would have to sift through AAR's from around the nation! As before, WhiteTruth is proven to be a liar.


He would be the person to speak to about it if he was my Unit Coordinator at the time and was with me when we engaged in our activism, YOU DUMB SHIT.


WhiteTruth makes accusations against other pro-white people without proof and he refuses to prove his own alleged activism. Do you know why? I'll tell you:

"WhiteTruth" is actually the negro Daryle Lamont Jenkins of 32 Sanford Avenue in North Brunswick, NJ. He is "leader" of the One People's Project- a virulently anti-white group of misfits, druggies and troublemakers.

"WhiteTruth" has just been OUTED! Have a nice day.

Wrong. Wow, what proof do you have of THIS insane accusation?

I'd be interested in seeing it.

And for your sake I sincerely hope you are not really a NA member.

WT

P.S. You keep challenging my 'activism'. What in the HELL have you ever done?

The money that went for Doles flunked defence would have been better going to his wife and 11 childen. But now the lawer is laughing all the way too the bank.

A reasonable sentiment Dr A, but here we have the sentiment of hindsight. Moreover, Alex stated on VNN that the retainer was $50K and that he delivered the money to Theresa. So it would be reasonable to infer that the surplus remained in her hands. Plus, one would expect that some of the retainer would have been refunded since there was no trial. It seems to me that if somebody has questions about what happened after the delivery and so forth they ought to direct them to Theresa who has posted about this at SF.

Aryaninsider says: "he money raised for Chester Doles was completely and totally wasted. No one wants to utter this truth because the reality that we were all scammed by Chester Doles hurts too much."

No. That may be the way you feel, but that is not the truth. The truth is that some people are defeatists and always look on the dark side. For them the glass is always half full. The perfect is the enemy of the good. That is the way a teenager feels about things but men learn to deal with and accept the good where it may be found.

Chester was more effective as a UC than most and some thought all by comparision. He had tons of members coming in, the sort of men Rounder frankly calls rednecks, and we know that rednecks, ie, the rural working White man, is a powerful but yet unmobilized force for the good of our race. Chester had to be stopped. I have said it before and it is more true than ever now, we need to increase our local activities and real-world relationships and presence. Who did that best in year 2002? Perhaps that was Chester Doles.

I also noticed that right before his getting taken down, Matt Hale was both running for local office, and beating the drum for "consolidation." Which means, local presence. Again, the kikes had to stop this.

Here's the "truth" we're having a hard time facing. Yapping in cyberspace is a safety valve. People do it and they feel better and return to life in the Amerikwa. Jews say whew, that was a close one, what if they actually organized and got a group together on the ground, they might actually do something effective. When it happens, the Jews make sure the "leader" gets the treatment.

Part of what many contributors to the Doles campaign were trying to do was send a message that people who receive "the treatment" will not be forgotten.

I wont forget, and if a leader taking action which on the balance seems honest and effective and in our racial interest, receives "the treatment," I will try and do my small part to help that person even if that only means helping their wife afford diapers while they are in the fucking clink. I will leave it to you shit talkers and naysayers and demoralizers and anonymous trollike cybertalkers to yap.

Everybody in this thing needs to ask themselves what have I done to prove my worth to myself. Am I a man pitching in however I can given my abilities and limitations, or a mere free rider, a yapper, a punk.

Alex Linder since he has started VNN has talked up a storm, but he has also done deeds in the real world. Most recently he had the balls to stand up and tell it like it was in Topeka. To say boldy and publicly and not indirectly over the internet, what many of us who had the displeasure of going to integrated public schools as kids and getting rolled by niggers, have since come to understand plainly, and yet have never heard said in such manner publically. Last year at this time, the fundraiser Aryninsider derides was in full swing and Alex Linder was busting his ass to make it happen. Other people both present and not present also busted ass contributing to make it happen. Those are deeds. And make no mistake, the Doles fundraiser shocked the kikes in grand style. It was not only a deed but a famed deed and the contributors all had a part in it from the smallest to the largest. Even to this day, it brings a wide grin to my face.

some people are defeatists and always look on the dark side. For them the glass is always half full.

This kind of mistake is completely inexcusable. I will have your hide for this.

This kind of mistake is completely inexcusable. I will have your hide for this.Nordblod, is this response your idea of witty repartee? Do you think it an admirable bit of bandinage?
There is a saying, "Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."
Learn from it.

I have my ups and lows. You'll just have to deal.

I thought you frowned upon Shakespearianisms? I will readily agree, however, that quoting dead guys is a trifle homosexual.

Indeed, it was not a riposte, you hair-splitting nerd, that makes it worse. It was just an episode of gratuitous jerkoffedness. And no, that word is probably not to be found in Shakespeare or your damned dictionary.



I have my ups and lows. You'll just have to deal.

I thought you frowned on Shakespearianisms?

Nerd?!! Me?! I'm as tough and manly as they come!

Yes, I just invented a word, didn't I? Kudos to me.

Yes, kudos to you, the most adorably clever fellow you've ever met. Felicitations to those around you as well , if and when you pass through this annoyingly sophomoric phase. Or is it already a permanent condition?
Nerd?!! Me?! I'm as tough and manly as they come!

Yes, I just invented a word, didn't I? Kudos to me.

Furthermore, I'll have you know that I'm neither tedious nor boring. A veritable fountain of hard-hitting jocosity, societal critique and pregnant allegories, I'm.

Please don't cut me down to size again. I'm much too fragile at the moment.

Yes, kudos to you, the most adorably clever fellow you've ever met.

Haha, you're a very funny old geezer. That had me in stitches.


P.S. Personally, I take pride in not relying on harmful substances. I must be an unusually excellent individual. D.S.

Chester had to be stopped. I have said it before and it is more true than ever now, we need to increase our local activities and real-world relationships and presence. Who did that best in year 2002? Perhaps that was Chester Doles.

I also noticed that right before his getting taken down, Matt Hale was both running for local office, and beating the drum for "consolidation." Which means, local presence. Again, the kikes had to stop this.

Both of these statements imply that when an individual is becoming "effective" and a "threat", the Jews step in and remove them. At least, that's how I interpret it. If so, it causes me to wonder why Dr. William Pierce escaped this Jewish lynch mob tactic, and for 30 odd years. And what about Kevin Strom? Why haven't the Jews targeted him? Could it be that they weren't perceived as threats by the Jews....?

My personal belief is that neither Matt Hale or Chester Doles were "targeted" for elimination. They were simply guilty of criminal wrong doing, and thus paid the price. No innocent white man worth his salt would meekly go to a nigger cage - he'd fight tooth and nail. Instead, Chester pled guilty and was led away to groid hell.

Then again, maybe AE is right - maybe Hale and Doles were a "threat". But if so, the implication is that Pierce and Strom weren't and aren't. Otherwise, they would have been picked off long ago...

No offense, but that sounds rather like fallacious reasoning from where I'm sitting. Of course the kikeocracy will think twice before handing the movement obvious martyrs left and right. The fact that their tyrrany sometimes creates them (or at the very least facilitates our creation of them) anyway, does not seem to prove much more than that they tend to be somewhat dense and/or stubborn at times. Or law-enforcing.

This kind of mistake is completely inexcusable. I will have your hide for this.

what the heck are you talking about. are you threatening me? you had best make yourself clear.

Wow. That's a first. I must be losing my edge. OF COURSE it was not a threat. Merely a ribald jest (MOMUS has already torn it to shreds, so you needn't bother with that). I swear, if people keep getting angry at me like this, I'll start crying.

Nordblod is a budding wit, not quite a halfwit yet. He enjoys deliberate non sequitors, it's his schtick. He's just trying to be cute.
How can you be angry at his impertinence? His avatar is such an innocent lil sweetie.

what the heck are you talking about. are you threatening me? you had best make yourself clear.

Norblood I'm going to be patient because I think you're Scandanavian and as English may not be your first language, there may be something I'm missing. Moreover I think Scandanavians are generally wonderful people so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until you have a chance to explain yourself.

I fear the explanation given above is as far as I'm willing to humble my proud self.

Radio Host Hal Turner died this evening from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was 42.

Whomever the user "Chain" is on this forum, he/she chose to invade this particular post and EDIT it by adding his/her own disclaimer message to this post!

......permission and without an effort to verify what was posted!
How many times has he faked his own death already?
Since he didn't collect much sympathy donations, while faking illness, he probably attempted to cash in his life insurance policy

This one? This one right here?
Nordblod is a budding wit, not quite a halfwit yet. He enjoys deliberate non sequitors, it's his schtick. He's just trying to be cute.
I fear the explanation given above is as far as I'm willing to humble my proud self.

Anyone w/ half a brain knew he was guilty. He bragged to an informant that he had guns. Yeah he was hoodwinked but not entrapped. He was a felon and knew he was not supposed to have guns. The lawyer had ZERO recourse/defense. People in the WN movement are stupid when they give cash to defendendants who are obviously guilty.

Too bad for Hale but it is a lesson learned.
...

Did you really do time Todd because with education in the school of experience you should know that this is a vast oversimplification of how the CJ system works.

There were questions of fact about who owned what firearms.

Theresa informed the public that he had been informed by his PO that his civil right to own a firearm had been restored and/or not forfeit because the previous offenses were charged as misdemeanors. So there was a question or perhaps several questions of law about the application of the federal rules on losing the right to own firearms and how that interfaces with state rules.

A conviction was likely for many reasons but not assured. Moreover, beyond conviction there are appeals especially when there are questions of law. For Hale it aint over, for Chester it is because he elected to cop a plea which cuts off his opportunity to appeal if convicted. Nobody had any control over Chester copping a plea or whom he chose to be his lawyer for that matter.

I've said it repeatedly and I'll say it again. Dont worry about Chester or his family, especially if you kicked in. Look at the positives for VNN to have achieved something stunningly successful never having been done by "WN" who have always been regarded by the system hacks as a joke, apathetic, incompetent, weak fucking joke, since the sixties. The VNN fundraiser was a bolt of lightening.

I fear the explanation given above is as far as I'm willing to humble my proud self.

good enough, forget about it.

Both of these statements imply that when an individual is becoming "effective" and a "threat", the Jews step in and remove them. At least, that's how I interpret it. If so, it causes me to wonder why Dr. William Pierce escaped this Jewish lynch mob tactic, and for 30 odd years. And what about Kevin Strom? Why haven't the Jews targeted him? Could it be that they weren't perceived as threats by the Jews....?

My personal belief is that neither Matt Hale or Chester Doles were "targeted" for elimination. They were simply guilty of criminal wrong doing, and thus paid the price. No innocent white man worth his salt would meekly go to a nigger cage - he'd fight tooth and nail. Instead, Chester pled guilty and was led away to groid hell.

Then again, maybe AE is right - maybe Hale and Doles were a "threat". But if so, the implication is that Pierce and Strom weren't and aren't. Otherwise, they would have been picked off long ago...

Excellent questions.

I think that it's not all one or the other. I think yes Chester and Hale made certain obvious mistakes. But, the motivation to prosecute them in an expensive paid informant entrapment operation and subsequent trial was due to their effectiveness.

I think WLP was far more careful, but note that he too was sued by SPLC over the Klassen property transfer.

Still lingering questions remain about snitches near the top of NA. But I'm not the guy to discuss that topic.

Moreover I think Scandanavians are generally wonderful people

YES, we are! Second to none when it comes to meatballs, ice cream, porridge, sour processed Baltic herring, and enjoying the wild. Not to mention that although we are so few, we have produced enormous quantities of good music and arms. (Just had to say this)

And if you think Nordic Blood's English is complicated, you should hear his Swedish. :)

YES, we are! Second to none when it comes to meatballs, ice cream, porridge, sour processed Baltic herring, and enjoying the wild. Not to mention that although we are so few, we have produced enormous quantities of good music and arms. (Just had to say this)

And if you think Nordic Blood's English is complicated, you should hear his Swedish. :)

I'll take the gje ost and you keep the gamle ost and lutefisk. or is that stuff considered norweigian?

Is this ethnic cheerleading or what? Some Nordic boosterism.
I suspect most on this forum hold the Scandinavians in high esteem.
I do, cousins. All do but some skulking and envious swarthies whom I won't name.

YES, we are! Second to none when it comes to meatballs, ice cream, porridge, sour processed Baltic herring, and enjoying the wild. Not to mention that although we are so few, we have produced enormous quantities of good music and arms. (Just had to say this)

And if you think Nordic Blood's English is complicated, you should hear his Swedish. :)

So, it may be a hoax. The entity that initially posted this thread may be a Hal sock-puppet.
Any further news?

Is this ethnic cheerleading or what? Some Nordic boosterism.
I suspect most on this forum hold the Scandinavians in high esteem.
I do, cousins. All do but some skulking and envious swarthies whom I won't name.

well I am a swarthy of sorts with black hair and brown eyes but let me tell you, I have been to Denmark Sweden and Norway, as for the last two, they are beautiful lands filled with the most beautiful and kind people. I hope they stay the same except I would like to see more such people and not the tragedy of little villages going away because of the "birth dearth." Moreover as in all European folks, a better sense of self-worth confidence and "volksgemeinshaft" is needed.

Finally, I have absolutely no problem with nordics seeking to maintain their unique phenotype by intermarrying with each other. However my own wife is plenty nordic in appearance, though this comes from Anglo-Celt heritage, with fair eyes hair and skin and so there is one that got away from you, LOL.

Nordblod said: "No offense, but that sounds rather like fallacious reasoning from where I'm sitting. Of course the kikeocracy will think twice before handing the movement obvious martyrs left and right. The fact that their tyrrany sometimes creates them..."

Also no offense, but I think you missed the point. The crux of the question was this: Were two INNOCENT men (Matt Hale and Chester Doles) specifically targeted for removal because they were a threat, or did they simply break the law (as I contend) and were sent to prison?

My reasoning is quite logical, IF there is a specific agency in the US government (what you call a "kikeocracy") that works to target and remove completely INNOCENT white nationalists. If such an agency exists, it stands to reason that William Pierce and Kevin Strom should have been locked up long, long ago. Only they weren't. Therefore, this is strong circumstantial evidence that no such agency (or "kikeocracy") exists whose sole task is to remove INNOCENT white nationalists from society.

In conclusion, Matt Hale and Chester Doles broke the law and were sent to prison. That's all there is to it. Pierce suffered lawsuits, but he was never charged with a criminal offense. Really, after the Oklahoma City bombing Pierce was riper than ever for "removal", since it was widely claimed his "Turner Diaries" inspired the bombing. Only...Pierce wasn't "removed". Why not? Simply because - unlike Hale and Doles - Pierce was INNOCENT of wrongdoing. That's the key to the whole mystery, actually. White nationalists who break the law go to jail. White nationalists who abide by the law remain free.

Yes, but do you also contend that these men would have been indicted with similar aggressiveness even had they not had ties to the WN movement? If that is indeed what you suggest, then it would (nimbly turning a blind eye to the strictest forms of causal logic) stand to reason that you likewise regard, for instance, the liberation of Iraq as being benign and just in nature.

[/COLOR]

Also no offense, but I think you missed the point. The crux of the question was this: Were two INNOCENT men (Matt Hale and Chester Doles) specifically targeted for removal because they were a threat, or did they simply break the law (as I contend) and were sent to prison?

My reasoning is quite logical, IF there is a specific agency in the US government (what you call a "kikeocracy") that works to target and remove completely INNOCENT white nationalists. If such an agency exists, it stands to reason that William Pierce and Kevin Strom should have been locked up long, long ago. Only they weren't. Therefore, this is strong circumstantial evidence that no such agency (or "kikeocracy") exists whose sole task is to remove INNOCENT white nationalists from society.

In conclusion, Matt Hale and Chester Doles broke the law and were sent to prison. That's all there is to it. Pierce suffered lawsuits, but he was never charged with a criminal offense. Really, after the Oklahoma City bombing Pierce was riper than ever for "removal", since it was widely claimed his "Turner Diaries" inspired the bombing. Only...Pierce wasn't "removed". Why not? Simply because - unlike Hale and Doles - Pierce was INNOCENT of wrongdoing. That's the key to the whole mystery, actually. White nationalists who break the law go to jail. White nationalists who abide by the law remain free.

law enforcement is more complicated than that in practice. in practice LE decides whom to investigate. then sometimes once they investigate they come up with nothing and quit. other times they come up with nothing and are humiliated so they get pressured to "produce results." that is where hiring of paid informants to entrap people comes in. this is what happened to Hale obviously. Chester is a more complicated story but that involved a paid informant as well.

other possibilities exist such as, cooperation with LE or a "deal" may be struck by a target of investigation which allows a target to remain free in exchange for occasional tidbits of info and so forth. for example the main drug gang provides information and arranges arrests of rival drug leaders, to make the cops look good in the "war on drugs" when in fact the cops are ignoring the crimes perpetrated by a particular gang. such a "deal" was part of the plot in WLP's novel "Hunter" wasnt it? Ironic.

Things are rarely what they seem at first blush.

pessimist=glass is half empty.

optimist=glass is half full.

This was the spark for all the witty Nordblood posts. This ends your public service announcement.

[/COLOR]

Also no offense, but I think you missed the point. The crux of the question was this: Were two INNOCENT men (Matt Hale and Chester Doles) specifically targeted for removal because they were a threat, or did they simply break the law (as I contend) and were sent to prison?

My reasoning is quite logical, IF there is a specific agency in the US government (what you call a "kikeocracy") that works to target and remove completely INNOCENT white nationalists. If such an agency exists, it stands to reason that William Pierce and Kevin Strom should have been locked up long, long ago. Only they weren't. Therefore, this is strong circumstantial evidence that no such agency (or "kikeocracy") exists whose sole task is to remove INNOCENT white nationalists from society.

In conclusion, Matt Hale and Chester Doles broke the law and were sent to prison. That's all there is to it. Pierce suffered lawsuits, but he was never charged with a criminal offense. Really, after the Oklahoma City bombing Pierce was riper than ever for "removal", since it was widely claimed his "Turner Diaries" inspired the bombing. Only...Pierce wasn't "removed". Why not? Simply because - unlike Hale and Doles - Pierce was INNOCENT of wrongdoing. That's the key to the whole mystery, actually. White nationalists who break the law go to jail. White nationalists who abide by the law remain free.


Excellent post. The problem that they aren't going to listen. White racialist 'leaders" make a complete mess of it. They get nailed and then they rant about ZOG.

Butler lost his compound because he was stupid. Hale is going to be in jail for a very long time because he is stupid. Alex curtis, the kid from San Diego, is in jail because he was stupid. Duke was in jail because he has one big problem: character. And so on...

They never ever learn from mistakes. True, some are set up, but then again: why do they step into the trap?

The 'leaders" know that there followers aren't too bright. They keep their groups a fanclub with a general, a couple of foot soldiers, but no 'middle management.

pessimist=glass is half empty.

optimist=glass is half full.

This was the spark for all the witty Nordblood posts. This ends your public service announcement.


Realist: sees things like they are, thus: 50%

Politics is the art of the possible. And all politics is, in the first place, local.

Radio Host Hal Turner died this evening from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was 42.

Whomever the user "Chain" is on this forum, he/she chose to invade this particular post and EDIT it by adding his/her own disclaimer message to this post!

If moderators to this forum can simply EDIT someone else's post, without asking permission, (as opposed to moving it or deleting it) then what is to stop them from EDITING anyone's posts so as to get them in trouble with the law? What "Chain" has done is an absolute outrage!

For the record, no one who challenged the veracity of my post has even bothered to contact ME about about it via PM! What we have here is a direct alteration of a posters message without permission and without an effort to verify what was posted!
I contacted in post #2. Where's your source? Still waiting. -Chain, mod.
Let's refresh the thread a bit. Post #2
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=66166&postcount=2
in this thread was my asking you for a source. You still haven't provided one. Hal lives. You may have to change that Nebraska net address, Aryan Insider. It shouldn't be difficult. Maybe "Aryan Intestine" would be a good new user signup.
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=66166&postcount=2

How many times has he faked his own death already?
Since he didn't collect much sympathy donations, while faking illness, he probably attempted to cash in his life insurance policy

Wait a minute. I take that back. Hal Turner faked his birth, his existence.
He's an illusion, folks

Wait a minute. I take that back. Hal Turner faked his birth, his existence.
He's an illusion, folks


If I hadn't read this thread with my own eyes, I never would have believed it. Out of the 70 or so posts in this thread, only about four expressed any regret whatsoever about the death of Hal Turner. Several mocked him; others were more concerned with proof of it, while quite a number of others took the thread into a general conversation. This is SICK. You people are SICK!

I cannot fathom the cold, malevolence expressed here for another white man. A man who put himself out there in front and took the heat.

If the majority of posters in this thread represent the actual majority of people in the "white movement" then the "white movement" is being
conducted in large part by sociopaths. Self-centered, egotistical sociopaths.

Too bad you were raised so poorly. Call yourselves whatever you like, the majority of posters in this thread are nothing more than white trash.

Good riddance.

Everybody pays.

Everybody pays.


What is that supposed to mean? Pays for what? Pays whom? What am I missing here?

If I hadn't read this thread with my own eyes, I never would have believed it. Out of the 70 or so posts in this thread, only about four expressed any regret whatsoever about the death of Hal Turner. Several mocked him; others were more concerned with proof of it, while quite a number of others took the thread into a general conversation. This is SICK. You people are SICK!

I cannot fathom the cold, malevolence expressed here for another white man. A man who put himself out there in front and took the heat.

If the majority of posters in this thread represent the actual majority of people in the "white movement" then the "white movement" is being
conducted in large part by sociopaths. Self-centered, egotistical sociopaths.

Too bad you were raised so poorly. Call yourselves whatever you like, the majority of posters in this thread are nothing more than white trash.

Good riddance.

Can you provide one shred of evidence this story about Hal Turner is true? If so, maybe someone will express some sympathy for him. But don't expect a lot until then.

What is that supposed to mean? Pays for what? Pays whom? What am I missing here?
Missing the cash? It's an existential expression. Ask around at Hal's funeral, Aryan Insider. LOL
N E O - B R A Z I L
http://servedby.advertising.com/site=0000684097/mnum=0000185436/genr=1/logs=0/mdtm=1086301531/bins=1/optn=1

If I hadn't read this thread with my own eyes, I never would have believed it. Out of the 70 or so posts in this thread, only about four expressed any regret whatsoever about the death of Hal Turner. Several mocked him; others were more concerned with proof of it, while quite a number of others took the thread into a general conversation. This is SICK. You people are SICK!

I cannot fathom the cold, malevolence expressed here for another white man. A man who put himself out there in front and took the heat.

If the majority of posters in this thread represent the actual majority of people in the "white movement" then the "white movement" is being
conducted in large part by sociopaths. Self-centered, egotistical sociopaths.

Too bad you were raised so poorly. Call yourselves whatever you like, the majority of posters in this thread are nothing more than white trash.

Good riddance.

I think few would deny that Hal Turner could be taken seriously, after all the scams he tried to pull off. I don't see him as a model White

But are you dead, Hal? That's still the burning question you avoid. Are you trying to find a reason to be angry and offended to justify something?
Where is that proof?

If I hadn't read this thread with my own eyes, I never would have believed it. Out of the 70 or so posts in this thread, only about four expressed any regret whatsoever about the death of Hal Turner. Several mocked him; others were more concerned with proof of it, while quite a number of others took the thread into a general conversation. This is SICK. You people are SICK!

I cannot fathom the cold, malevolence expressed here for another white man. A man who put himself out there in front and took the heat.

If the majority of posters in this thread represent the actual majority of people in the "white movement" then the "white movement" is being
conducted in large part by sociopaths. Self-centered, egotistical sociopaths.

Too bad you were raised so poorly. Call yourselves whatever you like, the majority of posters in this thread are nothing more than white trash.

Good riddance.

I actually liked the guy. I met him a few times too and even had a drink with him. I hope he is not dead! Can someone confirm this??? Please!

Hal Turner, your a fuckin idiot! Go away.

Whatever your new little plan is I will say on behalf of most people here: Shut the fuck up and go to hell!

Go leave the 'WN Movement' as a hero and turn tail; maybe write a book 'exposing' the WN movement in Amerikwa. I'm sure you could make a few shekels from writing your very own expose.
Maybe we'll see you on foxnewz none evening peddling your book.

Where do I send a card to?

Hal Turner, your a fuckin idiot! Go away.

Whatever your new little plan is I will say on behalf of most people here: Shut the fuck up and go to hell!

Go leave the 'WN Movement' as a hero and turn tail; maybe write a book 'exposing' the WN movement in Amerikwa. I'm sure you could make a few shekels from writing your very own expose.
Maybe we'll see you on foxnewz none evening peddling your book.

Where do I send a card to?

ever read that book by Ingo hasselbach, "fuhrer ex?" anybody here ever meet the guy?

Also no offense, but I think you missed the point. The crux of the question was this: Were two INNOCENT men (Matt Hale and Chester Doles) specifically targeted for removal because they were a threat, or did they simply break the law (as I contend) and were sent to prison?

Well thats one way of putting it. Hale was dumb enough to let a ZOG informant set him up and Doles got caught with a couple of guns he wasn't supposed to have. In neither of these so called "crimes" was anybody hurt and it is my understanding informants were used by ZOG in both instances and now Hale and Doles are doing years of hard time.

But is your question valid ("Were two INNOCENT men specifically targeted for removal because they were a threat, or did they simply break the law and were sent to prison"?) if you were to ask yourself if the circumstances were the same and Hale and Doles were not hardcore WN's but just a couple of nobodys....niggers or beaners, for example? Would said muds have gotten the same harsh penalties?

My reasoning is quite logical, IF there is a specific agency in the US government (what you call a "kikeocracy") that works to target and remove completely INNOCENT white nationalists. If such an agency exists, it stands to reason that William Pierce and Kevin Strom should have been locked up long, long ago. Only they weren't. Therefore, this is strong circumstantial evidence that no such agency (or "kikeocracy") exists whose sole task is to remove INNOCENT white nationalists from society.

I think your logic is flawed! Pierce seemed to be teflon coated when it came to FedGov. It was alleged he took some of the Orders ill gotten gains but no FBI investigation ever ensued.

Then there was the allegation by Zog informants that Richard Barrett, at Pierces direction sold these informants explosive devices. The informant turned two explosive devices, described as "incendiary", over to the FBI, which turned them over to the BATF as evidence. Apparently, according to documents, the BATF analysis never found its way into FBI files, but there was sufficient evidence that an investigation of Pierce for violating both 18 USC 1461 and 26 USC 5861 -- manufacture of an explosive device and transporting forbidden materials through the mails. According to a June 7, 1972 memorandum from Attorney General William Olson. Again, nothing ever came of it!

Then there is the Hendrik Moebus episode. Pierce and the NA knowingly harbored an international fugitive who was wanted in Germany. Now whether Moebus is innocent or guilty is not the point. The fact is, Pierce gave him safe haven at the NA compound in West Virginia. The penalty for harboring a fugitive is carries a maximum prison sentence of up to 10 years. Again, nothing ever came of it.

"logic" would tell you that had Zog wanted to make a case against Pierce they certainly could have! But they never did, why?


In conclusion, Matt Hale and Chester Doles broke the law and were sent to prison. That's all there is to it. Pierce suffered lawsuits, but he was never charged with a criminal offense. Really, after the Oklahoma City bombing Pierce was riper than ever for "removal", since it was widely claimed his "Turner Diaries" inspired the bombing. Only...Pierce wasn't "removed". Why not? Simply because - unlike Hale and Doles - Pierce was INNOCENT of wrongdoing. That's the key to the whole mystery, actually. White nationalists who break the law go to jail. White nationalists who abide by the law remain free.

This statement here is typical jew logic! Start with a bonehead conclusion and then work your way backwards to prove it!

"That's the key to the whole mystery, actually. White nationalists who break the law go to jail. White nationalists who abide by the law remain free"-Karl Ramstrom

"Mystery" indeed!

Steve B., I like your analysis.

Steve, no offense, but I think you've confused the issue here.

1: It's irrelevant what criminal charges a "beaner" or a "nigger" would have gotten for committing the same violations as Hale or Doles, since we're not comparing varying degrees of "guilt" based upon one's race, but discussing the theoretical possibility that totally INNOCENT men (in this case WNs) were specifically targeted and removed via bogus criminal charges. I contend that Hales and Doles were NOT innocent men, and that their own illegal actions got them convicted. I do concede that holding racist views gave them a much higher profile on the radar screens of law enforcement, but in the end it was their illegality that put them behind bars.

2: You bring up Dr. William Pierce, and insinuate that he was never "targeted" because he was somehow in cahoots with the FBI/BATF. Hey, for all we know maybe he was. But again, that's a whole 'nother theoretical chestnut. But this thread isn't about the possibility that William Pierce was secretly guilty of criminal activity, and that he escaped prosecution only because he was being "protected" by law enforcement in exchange for his informant value.

No, this thread is based upon the assumption that William Pierce was actually, truly, and genuinely INNOCENT of any criminal activity. Now, based upon THAT assumption, the fact that "America's most dangerous racist" (ADL description) was never targeted by America's "kikeocracy" is strong circumstantial evidence that no "targeting" is actually taking place, or else Pierce would have been caged long ago. Afterall, if such a clandestine "kikeocracy" existed, with the sole purpose of framing racists and sending them to prison, then getting Pierce would have been the prime objective of such an agency. But since Pierce lived out his life in pleasant, wooded seclusion, that implies two things: no such agency or conspiracy exists for the sole purpose of framing white nationalists on bogus charges, and two, William Pierce was a law abiding citizen, hated though he was by the FBI, ADL, and SPLC.

In the end, I guess it's hard for some pro-white supporters to accept the fact that there are those in our movement who are actually guilty of breaking the law. "Zog" didn't bring them down, their own criminality did. Chester Doles violated the law. It's irrelevant if his infraction was minor, or if a "beaner" or a "nigger" would have gotten a lesser sentence under the same circumstances. All that matters is that Chester Doles BROKE the law. And Matt Hale, by his own utterly damning taped admissions, had every reason to believe that Tony Evola was plotting the murder of Judge Lefkow. But instead of immediately telling Evola to get the fuck out and never come back, Hale implicates himself in a murder conspiracy by telling him: "Do whatever you want, basically." Not exactly a blatant "Kill the bitch!" I agree, but certainly enough for any reasonable jury to conclude that Hale had no problemo whatsoever if Evola snuffed Lefkow.

We white nationalists are under a legal magnifyiing glass, and in that sense we are indeed "targeted". And that's why we have to stay fastidiously legal in all our actions, or else we're going to end up as some nigger's sex slave in prison.

Steve B., I like your analysis.

Me too, but it's frightening in its implications.

I think that Hale's case makes the case *against* the argument that ZOG goes after those identified as "dangerous." Okay, he may have been dangerous on a personal level.... as in, perhaps he or one of his followers would go shoot a few people. But Hale was hardly dangerous in the real sense, in the sense of being able to get a real movement started. He was way too nuts for that. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a very smart man, and I wrote him a letter of support soon after his imprisonment, but damned if he's not a complete self-parody of the Neo-Nazi Leader. Very straight-laced, very stern, very uptight, very self-important. Very angry seeming. In a word, very intense. Frighteningly so. Very much like how the media presents Hitler, although you can still see photos/movies of Hitler smiling. When Hale smiles for a photo, it looks like it hurts him to do so.

Anyway, personality issues aside, WCOTC could never even come close to approaching a mass movement in America (or anywhere else for that matter). Again, they might have a few dedicated members who are able to do a lot, but it's far from being a mainstream type movement. Lemmings would see Matt Hale on TV and be frightened. Matt Hale was never much of a threat worth taking out IMO. I think that it was as much of a ZOG PR effort as a "removing a threat" effort.... they could show Hale on TV with some emotional story about Judge Jewkow and how Matt Hale is such a hating hateful hater that he wanted this kindly old Jewish lady dead.

On the other hand, I think the threat explanation might work for Doles, although I personally know nothing about his success or lack thereof as the NA leader in his area. I agree with the sentiment that a cohesive, localized group is much more of a real threat than a bunch of Internet activists. I'd take 1,000 WN men in one town over 1,000,000 WN men spread all over the US talking on the Internet. With 1,000 men, you've got policemen, business owners, doctors, all types of people. All taking a stand, leading by example. I believe that entire towns could be turned relatively quickly with the right execution of door-to-door work, billboards, rallies, barbecues, etc. The point needs to be made: No, we're not evil. We're your friends, neighbors, and family members.

Maybe it's just that Pierce was so paranoid that he avoided the informant problem?

My question exactly. I googled Hal Turner dead and got nothing.
Google usually takes a day or so to spider recent news items... to my experience, at any rate.

.........
On the other hand, I think the threat explanation might work for Doles, although I personally know nothing about his success or lack thereof as the NA leader in his area. I agree with the sentiment that a cohesive, localized group is much more of a real threat than a bunch of Internet activists. I'd take 1,000 WN men in one town over 1,000,000 WN men spread all over the US talking on the Internet. With 1,000 men, you've got policemen, business owners, doctors, all types of people. All taking a stand, leading by example. I believe that entire towns could be turned relatively quickly with the right execution of door-to-door work, billboards, rallies, barbecues, etc. The point needs to be made: No, we're not evil. We're your friends, neighbors, and family members......

This is a point I have been trying to make privately and publically for years. I'm going to beat the drum about this because this is part of the reason why "the movement" is such a zero.

There are other examples but I'm not going to rehash them. Butler actually is one, he owned real estate explicitly devoted to his odd pro-White idea. It was a major target especially since it was in fact a regular regional "hub" for get togethers and such.

There is no question in my mind that the internet is to some extent ignored by Jews due to it being a safety valve, and also a source of OSINT on their detractors. But if somebody is doing powerful local stuff, ouch, they are going to try as hard as they can to step on it. (sidebar: Regional ADL offices do the monitoring and the marshalling of LE assets and the pulling of strings. SPLC is showbiz. ADL is ten times the "anti" force that SPLC is. SPLC is an outgrowth of Mo Dees earlier direct mail success. They are good at scaring their donor base into disgorging shekels. ADL is for real and they conceal most of their string pulling even if it isnt strictly illegal.) We might infer from this that if LOCAL ACTION is what they actually spend resources to suppress, LOCAL ACTION is what they really fear, because LOCAL ACTION actually poses a threat to jewish power.

So let's keep pecking on the internet, fantasizing about our gotterdamerung, hiding in our rooms, coming out for the occasional EAT MEET AND RETREAT. Jews are ok with talk especially between deracinated, socially atomized folk. Actually form the ties that bind-- or used to bind-- us together, such as geographical proximity, for starters, and then criticize the Jews, and they go for the throat.

Yeah I have picked it up for five bucks in the bargain bin. It was a good book I laughed my ass off reading it. Had some pretty cool people in it. But never met the guy.

you're quite the reader!

consider for a moment, that the comparative success of nationalist politics in Europe may be due to the physical proximity of people in densely packed Europe which allows for better LOCAL CONTACT.

The police are not the friend of the working class whites. Please do not make the mistake of thinking so. The boys in bule serve the jew.

I wasnt saying they are-- did somebody else say that or is this in reply to the comments by Karl...?

Can this thread be put to sleep now? Something should die. In light of the fact that Hal is not dead I nominate this thread as for the first to be mercy-killed by VNN moderator, despite it not being in the civil forum.

Hal alive!
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=5770

Aryan Insider has been permanently banned by myself.

Hal Turner didn't shoot himself. I shot and killed him just before I shot and killed myself.

I hope this clears up all the confusion!

DR

ROFLMAO! Too good Gunter88. :D

BUT Still no one has offered proof Hal's taking the big dirt nap.

Radio Host Hal Turner died this evening from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was 42.
Yeah, and a jewish character actor has been impersonating him for the last couple of years. :eek:

The Magic Face (1951)

Plot Outline: Actor becomes Hitler's valet, murders him, takes his place and ruins Nazi Germany's war efforts.

>>> http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0043771/

The Strange Death of Adolf Hitler (1943)

Plot Outline: A man who is a dead ringer for Adolf Hitler plans to murder him and take over his identity.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0036393/

The Magic Face (1951)

Plot Outline: Actor becomes Hitler's valet, murders him, takes his place and ruins Nazi Germany's war efforts.

>>> http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0043771/

Did you notice that the length of the movie is 88 minutes long.

Sounds like another one of Hal's bullshit scams. I live in North Jersey, and I just checked all the local news sources, nothing about Hal offing himself. Since today is Yom Kippur, I'm sure a story like that would be all over the news.

BTW, no hebes showed up for work today, I was one of the few white skinned persons there today. When you take the jews out of the mix, there are almost no White people left in the NYC area.

ETA: I didn't notice, but this thread is 2 years old. Who keeps resurrecting these ancient threads?

Aryan Insider was always Hal Turner.

It's an old scam from Hal a couple of years ago when he left the internet.

The idiocy of some people.........

As usual, cknott is lying. Hal Turner (http://www.vnnforum.com/member.php?u=737) posts under his own name here.

Sounds like another one of Hal's bullshit scams. I live in North Jersey, and I just checked all the local news sources, nothing about Hal offing himself. Since today is Yom Kippur, I'm sure a story like that would be all over the news.

BTW, no hebes showed up for work today, I was one of the few white skinned persons there today. When you take the jews out of the mix, there are almost no White people left in the NYC area.

ETA: I didn't notice, but this thread is 2 years old. Who keeps resurrecting these ancient threads?

This thread is two years old.

Please put this in the Nutzpah lounge (AND lock it), it's driving me nuts seeing "Hal Turner Dead" every time I visit here.

This wouldn't surprise me if he finally does, but the kickbacks from the government is just too good. I bet he blows all his money on shoes.:D

This wouldn't surprise me if he finally does, but the kickbacks from the government is just too good. I bet he blows all his money on shoes.:D

My bet on him is not suicide, but either a heart attack or drug overdose.