I have a problem with the people, whether pro or con, describing "Iranians", and by that meaning an inhabitant of the Islamic Republic of Iran, as a "race", White or otherwise. Iran is a multi ethnic nation.

For instance: the largest tribe in Iran are the Persians, who are in fact of the Iranian branch of the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European racial group. But they are just a slim majority of 51%. The next largest tribe are Azeris, who are Turks. A tribe not within the Indo-European racial group. The Azeri comprise nearly one out of four Iranians. Actual A-Rabs are 3% of the population of Iran. They are a Semitic tribe, not within either the Turk or Aryan family.

Since about half of the people in Iran are not Persians, it is a serious error to describe them as a single ethnic group.

A less gross error is the idea that "Iranians" are "Shiites". While it is true that about 89% of Iranians are Shiites, there is still a significant double digit minority comprising everything from Sunnis, to various Christian denominations, to Jews, and a few other different middle-eastern religions.

On the racial scale, I would have to say that actual Persians are the "whitest" of middle-easterners. But I don't think they have a place within an English speaking European-American nation.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html

If Persians are not exactly white/aryan then why do you care and why are we talking about this?

[QUOTE=wasp]I have a problem with the people, whether pro or con, describing "Iranians", and by that meaning an inhabitant or the Islamic Republic of Iran, as a "race", White or otherwise. Iran is a multi ethnic nation.

For instance: the largest tribe in Iran are the Persians, who are in fact of the Iranian branch of the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European racial group. But they are just a slim majority of 51%. The next largest tribe are Azeris, who are Turks. A tribe not within the Indo-European racial group. The Azeri comprise nearly one out of four Iranians. Actual A-Rabs are 3% of the population of Iran. They are a Semitic tribe, not within either the Turk or Aryan family.

Since about half of the people in Iran are not Persians, it is a serious error to describe them as a single ethnic group.

A less gross error is the idea that "Iranians" are "Shiites". While it is true that about 89% of Iranians are Shiites, there is still a significant double digit minority comprising everything from Sunnis, to various Christian denominations, to Jews, and a few other different middle-eastern religions.

On the racial scale, I would have to say that actual Persians are the "whitest" of middle-easterners. But I don't think they have a place within an English speaking European-American nation.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html[/QUOTE]

I never said that Iranians are "white" or wanted to be considered "white" or European (because we quite obviously are not located in Europe). I just want to make clear that Iranians (by this I mean Persians and their brethren) are not Arabs or Turks; nor are they "miscegenated" with Negroids and Mongoloids (I have the genetic studies that prove this if you would like to see them). Persians are the same people that they were thousands of years ago.

Well, I commend your effort to learn about Iran rather than just assume which is what a lot of people do.

I will say that the CIA Factbook has reason to misrepresent the ethnic composition of Iran. They try to downplay the percentage of Persians so that they can make Iran look divided (i.e. a Yugoslavia waiting to happen). So I would imagine Persians make up quite a bit more of the population.

But even if the numbers provided by the CIA are correct you should note the following. The Persians are closely related to the Gilaki and Mazandarani. In fact they are brother Aryans; the only difference is that they speak dialects of Persian. The Kurds are also closely related to Persians but they speak a distinct language (still related to Persian but not a dialect). The Baluchi are also related to the Persians but they may have bred somewhat with Indians. The Lor and Bakhtiari are probably related to Persians too (and speak a similar language). So, on the CIA figures, about 68% of Iranians are descended from Aryans.

The Azaris are actually Persians who adopted the Turkish language. They have mixed a little with Turkish invaders (probably about 10%) unlike the Persians.

Does Kamagirl really think that the people who brought the original Indo-European language into Iran were anything but a conquering minority that was ultimately absorbed into the indigenous mass of inhabitants who already lived there? Same as India, Afghanistan, and the rest of the Middle East where White-skinned, fair, Indo-Europeans settled in small numbers. You still see many people in India, Iran and Afghanistan, as well as Turkey and amongst the Kurds who have fair features. In ancient times long before the Turks and Arabs came, the Medes and Persians were only two groups in what's now considered Iran. These two groups were not the only groups. Iran is a blend of many racial elements, and is not just cordoned off between Persians, Turks, and Arabs, but has much overlap and interchange between these groups. And each of these groups in turn is composed of a variety of racial elements. The modern day Persians are in no way shape or form Aryans; they simply speak a derivative speech which is vaguely connected to that spoken by those Aryan conquerors who introduced it, and vaguely related to all other European forms of speech derived from this ancestral language. There were other languages spoken before it, and it has undoubtedly changed over time. Today's Iranians reflect the continually blending mixture of all the racial elements that over the millennia have fused into a nationality in a specific geographic area. They're different now than in the past because of this continual blending of formerly separate elements. 3,500 years ago Iran, like India, was dominated by a fair type of people of Indo-European speech who over the course of time ceased to be a distinct element in the population. You'll still see some of these people in isolated areas or in individual anomalies; often among Indian actors and actresses. In the ancient Indian religious texts you'll find references to blond haired and bearded Gods, the same thunder-wielding, Sky-ruling God of the Greeks and the Romans and the Germans: Dyeus-pater, Zeus-pater, Jupiter: Sky-father, who became Thor in Germanic mythology when the legendary Norse chief Odin was elevated to the status of God. If you look at the lingually 'Persian' segment of the Iranian population you'll find a variety of physical types and features. You will find little homogeneity anywhere in the Middle East, and all the genetic tests in the world will not convince one against the evidence of one's own eyes; the waving around of totally meaningless genetic evidence is but a crutch of faith on which to lean for those who want to believe in their 'purity.' Purity is homogeneity. Persians don't have it and haven't for a long time. You won't find any Aryan homogeneity outside of parts of Northern Europe. As for Europeans in general, well, these exclusively European blends are more to our taste; a mixture we can live with... Nordic, Alpine, Mediterranean, Dinaric... so long as we respect the internal rights of each group and nationality to its own homogeneity and purity, there is no need for any conflict between Europeans.

So how do you respond to Piazza et al's genetic tests that show that Iranians and European are extremely closely related, enough to be grouped together?



...

[QUOTE=Anima Eternae]So how do you respond to Piazza et al's genetic tests that show that Iranians and European are extremely closely related, enough to be grouped together?



...[/QUOTE]

That is usually said about all primates. Even negroes.

[QUOTE=Ossian]That is usually said about all primates. Even negroes.[/QUOTE]

I'll just repost the chart.


http://home.comcast.net/~neoeugenics/GeneMap.jpg



...

So are Iranians closer genetically to English than Italians are?

[QUOTE=JB112]Does Kamagirl really think that the people who brought the original Indo-European language into Iran were anything but a conquering minority that was ultimately absorbed into the indigenous mass of inhabitants who already lived there? Same as India, Afghanistan, and the rest of the Middle East where White-skinned, fair, Indo-Europeans settled in small numbers. You still see many people in India, Iran and Afghanistan, as well as Turkey and amongst the Kurds who have fair features. In ancient times long before the Turks and Arabs came, the Medes and Persians were only two groups in what's now considered Iran. These two groups were not the only groups. Iran is a blend of many racial elements, and is not just cordoned off between Persians, Turks, and Arabs, but has much overlap and interchange between these groups. And each of these groups in turn is composed of a variety of racial elements. The modern day Persians are in no way shape or form Aryans; they simply speak a derivative speech which is vaguely connected to that spoken by those Aryan conquerors who introduced it, and vaguely related to all other European forms of speech derived from this ancestral language. There were other languages spoken before it, and it has undoubtedly changed over time. Today's Iranians reflect the continually blending mixture of all the racial elements that over the millennia have fused into a nationality in a specific geographic area. They're different now than in the past because of this continual blending of formerly separate elements. 3,500 years ago Iran, like India, was dominated by a fair type of people of Indo-European speech who over the course of time ceased to be a distinct element in the population. You'll still see some of these people in isolated areas or in individual anomalies; often among Indian actors and actresses. In the ancient Indian religious texts you'll find references to blond haired and bearded Gods, the same thunder-wielding, Sky-ruling God of the Greeks and the Romans and the Germans: Dyeus-pater, Zeus-pater, Jupiter: Sky-father, who became Thor in Germanic mythology when the legendary Norse chief Odin was elevated to the status of God. If you look at the lingually 'Persian' segment of the Iranian population you'll find a variety of physical types and features. You will find little homogeneity anywhere in the Middle East, and all the genetic tests in the world will not convince one against the evidence of one's own eyes; the waving around of totally meaningless genetic evidence is but a crutch of faith on which to lean for those who want to believe in their 'purity.' Purity is homogeneity. Persians don't have it and haven't for a long time. You won't find any Aryan homogeneity outside of parts of Northern Europe. As for Europeans in general, well, these exclusively European blends are more to our taste; a mixture we can live with... Nordic, Alpine, Mediterranean, Dinaric... so long as we respect the internal rights of each group and nationality to its own homogeneity and purity, there is no need for any conflict between Europeans.[/QUOTE]

Nobody said all Iranians were pure. But there is a big difference between saying that and saying most Iranians are not pure. On the contrary, most Persians are pure. The genetic evidence confirms this. You might not like genetic evidence but it is the only reliable indicator available. Using the evidence of your own eyes you would probably be breeding with Jews. But the genetic evidence shows that Jews may look European but are not. Phenotype is not genotype.

The Aryans were not generally blond and blue-eyed (at least not those that gradually migrated to Iran). The ancient Indian texts describe the Aryans as light skinned with black hair. So don't get me wrong, I think they were light skinned much more so than Indians are today (after a millenia of breeding with the darker skinned indigenous peoples). If you look at friezes from the Persian Empire or Roman mosaics featuring Darius III you will see that the Persians are not depicted with pale skin. In that climate pale skin is not an asset (look at the skin cancer rate for the Anglo-Saxon people in Australia). Most Indian actors and actresses would be considered dark compared to Persians. And Indians often use makeup and skin whitening cream to make themselves look lighter. Indians are naturally brown skinned; Persians aren't. I have plenty of people in my family with light coloured eyes and some with light coloured hair as many Persians do. Indians do not.

You are basing your thoughts on folk legends. These legends say that there was an Aryan invasion from Central Asia into Iran and India. But these legends are hardly reliable. Persians themselves (and our ancient texts) say that we came from the West (modern-day Eastern Turkey and the Caucasus) not from the East. Moreover, we do not know when we came to Iran. We could have come anywhere up to thousands of years before the common estimate of 1500BCE.

Let's not confuse Iran with India or any other country around those parts. Iran is mostly mountainous and desert. It has never had a high population density (even today it is quite sparsely populated after many advances in medicine and agricultural techniques). This compares to India where there are highly fertile plains and many rivers. The Gangetic Plain for instance. The population density in India and Pakistan was therefore most probably high enough to swamp any invaders. In Iran, however, it is possible that invaders displaced the indigenous population (who were most probably light skinned anyway).

I can [COLOR=DarkRed]NOT[/COLOR] support the statments of Kamangir. He can think how he want. The Persians in Iran are maybe 35%!
Real pure Persians are 20-25%. The most Iranians like Kamangir don`t know the real facts about Iran and the Iranian highland. They are manipulated by chauvinists who will destroy Iran. Persians are ONE tribe and not the master race which rule about all other tribes. In fact there are only in the provinz Fars Persians. The rest is a mix of Persians and other Iranians.
I remeber me how an Azeri said she is a pure Persian.
This is really a shame for Iranians, a shame for the Azeris and only good for the enemies of Iranians. Would a Saxon from Germany call his self Saxon or German? I think more German then Saxon. Do you ever seen a Saxon or a Bavarian who go for his provinz to the olympic games?
Do you ever seen a Persian who go for a country called Persian to the olympic games? The most Persians are CHAUVINISTS also you Kamangir!
I will tell you the true about the so called Persia or Iran which is the true name. In Iran are 3 big ethnics. 1) Iranians 2) Turks 3) Semits
Iranians=Kurds, Persians, Lurs, Baloches, Gilakis, Mazandaranis, Rashtis, Talyshians and ALSO Azeris(I will explain this later)
Turks=Turkmans/Turks(not AZeris!)
Semits=Arabs

The Turks and Arabs with some Gypsies are maybe 2-3% of the whole population!

The CIA datas are a LAUGH! Kurdistan/Luristan are ONE of the most settled areas in Iran. Luristan(not the provinz but the so called area Luristan) is settled by 8~10 million people. They are called Lurs and every Iranian know that they are one of the biggest tribes in Iran. The most Lurs see their self as a branch of Kurds. The same with Kurds. Kermanshah, Hamadan, Sanadaj and other towns with 1-3 million inhabitants(Kermanshah will be in the future one of the biggest town in Iran!!!) is only settled by Kurds/Lurs!
If you want to know it correct Iran has a population of 30% Kurd/Lurs.
The whole north where the so called Gilakis/Mazandaranis live are also 8~10 million strong. They are in reality Kurds or Medians. Many Iranians become angry when I say this but that are facts. Why have they a kurdish tribe names? Why they are explained from the Arabs as Kurds? Why there are many towns where the people say today they are Kurds?
This is the reality. The same with Azeris. They lost their Kurdish language.
We found documents in a not known Kurdish dialect from Azerbaijan for the Turkish invasion! Today in Azerbaijan live Talyshians and Kurds.
Both say they are Medians. The same with Baluchtes. They speak a more like Kurdish language then like Persian. Baluch came from Parashi(Persian) which mean battle axe warrior but this mean not that they are Persians, because the early Medians called their self also Parashis and they were defently not Persians!

All in all Iran is 60-70% of Median origin and 30-40% of Persian origin.
The other tribes like Parthians, Scythians, Saramatians, Bactrians and so on are also the ancestors of the actuall tribes. But when we only go from cultural side in Iran are 60-70% genetical/cultural direct ancestor from Medians.

Iran is Iran and not Persia.

Btw I am a Kurd a proud on it, I don`t want be a Persian, I am an Iranian yes but why should I deny my identity? It is a shame that I am a Median, that we Medians ruled Iran many times?

Sepas

[QUOTE=Shapur]I can [COLOR=DarkRed]NOT[/COLOR] support the statments of Kamangir. He can think how he want. The Persians in Iran are maybe 35%!
Real pure Persians are 20-25%. The most Iranians like Kamangir don`t know the real facts about Iran and the Iranian highland. They are manipulated by chauvinists who will destroy Iran. Persians are ONE tribe and not the master race which rule about all other tribes. In fact there are only in the provinz Fars Persians. The rest is a mix of Persians and other Iranians.
I remeber me how an Azeri said she is a pure Persian.
This is really a shame for Iranians, a shame for the Azeris and only good for the enemies of Iranians. Would a Saxon from Germany call his self Saxon or German? I think more German then Saxon. Do you ever seen a Saxon or a Bavarian who go for his provinz to the olympic games?
Do you ever seen a Persian who go for a country called Persian to the olympic games? The most Persians are CHAUVINISTS also you Kamangir!
I will tell you the true about the so called Persia or Iran which is the true name. In Iran are 3 big ethnics. 1) Iranians 2) Turks 3) Semits
Iranians=Kurds, Persians, Lurs, Baloches, Gilakis, Mazandaranis, Rashtis, Talyshians and ALSO Azeris(I will explain this later)
Turks=Turkmans/Turks(not AZeris!)
Semits=Arabs

The Turks and Arabs with some Gypsies are maybe 2-3% of the whole population!

The CIA datas are a LAUGH! Kurdistan/Luristan are ONE of the most settled areas in Iran. Luristan(not the provinz but the so called area Luristan) is settled by 8~10 million people. They are called Lurs and every Iranian know that they are one of the biggest tribes in Iran. The most Lurs see their self as a branch of Kurds. The same with Kurds. Kermanshah, Hamadan, Sanadaj and other towns with 1-3 million inhabitants(Kermanshah will be in the future one of the biggest town in Iran!!!) is only settled by Kurds/Lurs!
If you want to know it correct Iran has a population of 30% Kurd/Lurs.
The whole north where the so called Gilakis/Mazandaranis live are also 8~10 million strong. They are in reality Kurds or Medians. Many Iranians become angry when I say this but that are facts. Why have they a kurdish tribe names? Why they are explained from the Arabs as Kurds? Why there are many towns where the people say today they are Kurds?
This is the reality. The same with Azeris. They lost their Kurdish language.
We found documents in a not known Kurdish dialect from Azerbaijan for the Turkish invasion! Today in Azerbaijan live Talyshians and Kurds.
Both say they are Medians. The same with Baluchtes. They speak a more like Kurdish language then like Persian. Baluch came from Parashi(Persian) which mean battle axe warrior but this mean not that they are Persians, because the early Medians called their self also Parashis and they were defently not Persians!

All in all Iran is 60-70% of Median origin and 30-40% of Persian origin.
The other tribes like Parthians, Scythians, Saramatians, Bactrians and so on are also the ancestors of the actuall tribes. But when we only go from cultural side in Iran are 60-70% genetical/cultural direct ancestor from Medians.

Iran is Iran and not Persia.

Btw I am a Kurd a proud on it, I don`t want be a Persian, I am an Iranian yes but why should I deny my identity? It is a shame that I am a Median, that we Medians ruled Iran many times?

Sepas[/QUOTE]

Let me first ask you what are Persians called in Iran?

I am glad that your are proud to be a Kurd. I regard the Kurds as Iranian brethren. But I just cannot believe your interpretation. Let us speak with facts.

The simple fact is that Persians have been the dominant ethnic group in Iran since ancient times. Tati (the former language of Azarbayjan and Aran) is related to Persian not Kurdish. Would Babak Khoramdin or Nezami not consider themselves as Persians?

There are not that many Lor in Iran. They surely do not make up more than 2% of the population. Just look at the census data.

http://i-cias.com/e.o/iran_provinces.htm

The Lor speak a language of the Southwestern branch of the Iranian languages but Kurdish is in the Northwestern branch. Lori cannot be a dialect of Kurdish and is more related to Persian. Moreover, they are Shia Muslim unlike the Kurd who are Sunni. I do not see how the Lor are Median. Can you prove this?

Hamedan is not a Kurdish city. I have been there. Kermanshah is on the extremity of the Kurdish populated area in Iran. The Lor and Kurds cannot form 30% of the population. Take a look at the census data again. Kurds live mostly in Kordestan, Kermanshah and Azarbayjan e Gharbi. Kurds and Lor together form around 10% of the population at most.

Khorasani, Dari, Tajik and Tati are all in the Southwestern branch of the Iranian languages and therefore related to Persian more than Kurdish. So please don't say that everyone in northern Iran is Median rather than Persian. That is not true. Gilaki and Mazandarani are in the Northwestern branch, that is true, but they are fast becoming extinct and will in time be almost totally replaced by Persian not Kurdish.

By calling me a Persian chauvinist you sound exactly like the pan-Turk Azaris. Why don't you ally with them against Iran? Pan-Aryanism is anti-Iranian. So don't talk to me about Persian chauvinism. I am an Iranian nationalist not a "white" nationalist like you.

:D This is a hoot! These sandniggers are proving exactly what I've been telling my true Aryan comrades. Iran is not a single pure "race". It's bounderies were drawn out on the map by the European empires. It is a collection of various overlapping rival sandnigger tribes and sects. The same thing is true of neighboring Iraq and Afganistan. The constant warfare in this region since 1978 are not "jew" wars. They are sandnigger wars, in which the various sandnigger groups are jockeying for position within the broader ZOG\SOG world conspiracy.

[QUOTE=wasp]:D This is a hoot! These sandniggers are proving exactly what I've been telling my true Aryan comrades. Iran is not a single pure "race". It's bounderies were drawn out on the map by the European empires. It is a collection of various overlapping rival sandnigger tribes and sects. The same thing is true of neighboring Iraq and Afganistan. The constant warfare in this region since 1978 are not "jew" wars. They are sandnigger wars, in which the various sandnigger groups are jockeying for position within the broader ZOG\SOG world conspiracy.[/QUOTE]

The only thing you have proved by your statements is that you bend down and take Israeli cock up your ass.

Persians and Kurds have disputes much the same as Prussia and Saxony had disputes. Persians and Kurds are racial brethren. Persians and Kurds have nothing in common with the Arabs.

Iran has existed for 2500 years you ignoramus. It was never colonised by European empires you dunce. If it was post a link to prove your point. I know you can't because you've pulled that little "fact" right out of your ass. Iran's borders stretched far wider in times gone past. Hopefully they will do so again. And if you get in our way we will smite you. I thought you'd like the biblical reference there you Semite worshipper.

[quote=shapur]Btw I am a Kurd a proud on it, [/quote]

But King_Diaperhead says that Kurds aren't Aryans or White, and that they have brown skin like niggers. Not White skin like Paleshitnians and their racial brothers, the Jews. Here's what he had to say about your people, Shapur:

http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=107059&postcount=51

I believe you Kurds, along with the Arabs, have dark skin all over your bodies (maybe some exposed parts are relatively darker, but you are some shade of brown all around), disproving the fact that it is because of "climate". Niggers don't have light thighs, their whole bodies are dark because that is the genetic makeup of blacks. It is the same for you guys.

Did you read that, Shapur? Not only did he compare you to negroes and Arabs, he said Kurds ain't White cuz they don't have White skin like the "Brothers in Abraham" the Sephardics and Paleshitnians. And of course, no WN is gonna convince him of otherwise cuz that's not what his Jewish Sephardic cousins told him, no sirrey, to hell with all that morphology-genetic-Mtdna hoopla, White Skin = WHITE PEOPLE. Look at all these pure Aryans here flaunting their White purity:

http://img60.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img60&image=cannes8.jpg
http://img60.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img60&image=55fgf.jpg
http://img60.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img60&image=j5.jpg
http://img60.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img60&image=dfshf.jpg
Now them be some top shelf Aryans for you!


Are you gonna let the Paleshitnian say that about Kurds? Come on Shapur, show us what you're made of, break out those HG3 Percentages and genetic maps and put the sandnigger in his place!

JAVID IRAN!!

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]
The Aryans were not generally blond and blue-eyed (at least not those that gradually migrated to Iran). The ancient Indian texts describe the Aryans as light skinned with black hair. [/QUOTE]

Kamangir, are you aware of any type of Nordic component within the Persian gene pool? The reason I ask is, I know that there are indeed some blond haired and/or blue eyed Iranians. I played soccer with some people a couple month back and an Iranian man played with us, after the game a little girl who was probably 11 or 12 came up to him. She was his daughter. The girl had golden blond hairs and very light skin (snow white). The man himself looked like a typical Persian (black hairs, fair skin).

You are basing your thoughts on folk legends. These legends say that there was an Aryan invasion from Central Asia into Iran and India. But these legends are hardly reliable. Persians themselves (and our ancient texts) say that we came from the West (modern-day Eastern Turkey and the Caucasus) not from the East. Moreover, we do not know when we came to Iran. We could have come anywhere up to thousands of years before the common estimate of 1500BCE.

You seem to be pretty well informed. As a slightly off-topic point of interest:

Did you know that modern day Croats have their roots in ancient Iran? More specifically the Median empire. The word "Hrvat" came from there.

[QUOTE=ArmSla]Kamangir, are you aware of any type of Nordic component within the Persian gene pool? The reason I ask is, I know that there are indeed some blond haired and/or blue eyed Iranians. I played soccer with some people a couple month back and an Iranian man played with us, after the game a little girl who was probably 11 or 12 came up to him. She was his daughter. The girl had golden blond hairs and very light skin (snow white). The man himself looked like a typical Persian (black hairs, fair skin).
[/quote]

I'm not sure what you mean by Nordic but there are depigmented Iranians (although, of course, most Iranians have black hair and brown eyes). My paternal uncle has very light brown hair and blue eyes while my paternal aunt had red hair and green eyes. My mum's cousin is blond and his two children (boys) are blond too. If you drive down the street in Tehran every so often you come across redheads and blonds. Coon also says that the Irano-Afghan subrace is a cross between the Corded and Mediterranean (Corded I think is some kind of proto-Nordic). Iranians are also the tallest people in Asia I think (this is not too difficult I confess).


You seem to be pretty well informed. As a slightly off-topic point of interest:

Did you know that modern day Croats have their roots in ancient Iran? More specifically the Median empire. The word "Hrvat" came from there.

Yes I have heard of this. I think it is more likely that an Iranian elite mated with a Slav populace so any Iranian genetic lineages are most likely rare.

By the way, I am very happy that Iran has such a nice neighbour as Armenia. We have so many problems with our other neighbours as you do. My grandmother's best friend is an Armenian lady. :)

LOL Kamangir you showed that you know NOTHING about this stuff!
Do you know as what my family is registered? As PERSIANS!
My oncle tell me this. He said when the census was we MUST say that we are Persians, when not then ask god for help!
Also the fact that every who is not borned directly in the so called main non-Persian provinces is Persian. So I as a Tehrani are a Persian yes?
Or my cousin from Shiraz is a Persian? Yes? NO!
We both are KURDS...

Language map:

http://modersmal.skolverket.se/nordkurdiska/nexshe/images/Geographic%20Distribution%20of%20Kurdish%20and%20other%20Iranic%20Languages_jpg.gif

To your cool census:

Teheran 11,176,139
Markazi 1,228,812
Gilan 2,241,896
Mazandaran 4,028,296
East Azerbaijan 3,325,540
West Azerbaijan 2,496,320
Bukhtaran 1,778,596
Khuzestan 3,746,772
Fars 3,817,036
Kerman 2,004,328
Khorasan 6,047,661
Esfahan 3,923,355
Sistan va Baluchestan 1,722,579
Kordestan 1,346,383
Hamadan 1,677,957
Chaharmahal va Bakhtiari 761,168
Lorestan 1,584,434
Ilam 487,886
Kohgiluyeh va Boyerahmad 544,356
Bushehr 743,675
Zanjan 1,036,873
Semnan 501,447
Yazd 750,769
Hormozgan 1,062,155
Ardabil 1,168,011
Qom 853,044

All in all: 60,055,488

Where Kurds live:
Kordestan 1,346,383
Bukhtaran 1,778,596
Ilam 487,886
3,612,865 ~ 6%

*=Not the whole Area - when only 25% of these areas are kurdish then:
*West Azerbaijan 2,496,320
*Hamadan 1,677,957
*Khorasan 6,047,661
*Gilan 2,241,896
*Mazandaran 4,028,296
4,122,943 ~ 7%

Both together would be 13% of the total population.

When we calculate that maybe Tehran has 25% kurdish population(which is more realistic when we see at the actual situation of Istanbul Turkey)

This would be 4.7% with the rest.
~17.5%

The rest of Iran has maybe 3 million Kurds in serval towns!
This would be ~5%!

All in all would Iran has a total population of Kurds of 22.5%! Which is total realistic. The Lurs are Lurs and not Persians.
You said they are 2% of the total population.
This would be 1,201,110!

Only the province Lorestan itself has more then this 2%!!! :D
Lorestan 1,584,434

I will ake it clear for you Lurs & Kurds are more then 30% of the TOTAL population of Iran. I guess that it could also be 40%.
There are not 24% Azeris in Iran.

East Azerbaijan 3,325,540
Zanjan 1,036,873

This would be ~7.3% with the Azeris in Tehran maybe 13% and not more.

Sure they are in so called census more. Khamenie the leader of Iranians is an Azeri...

But all in all the whole stuff is not important. I will say you it easy.
Persians, Arabs and Turks can hate us Kurds. We understand that.

But know ONE thing and NEVER forget this.
A kurdish woman born 4 children, a Persian woman 2 children.
The time is our friend and you will see this in Syria, in Turkey, in Iraq and sure also in Iran when we are so much that you never can slave us!!!



By the way. Tajiks aren`t Persians. Your northwestern, southerwestern Iranian is a laugh. For 40 years the scientists classifited Sorani(one of the main kurdish dialects) as a southwestern language.
The classification standards are laughable.
Sure you say Luri is southwestern, I don`t care about this.
Because a Lur has cultural 1000 times more connections with a Kurd then he will ever have with a Persian.
The Talyshians(who are a big part in Azerbaijan speak northwestern not southwestern). Your 20,000-30,000 Tatis are not important for me.
The Sogdians losted their language and speak know as Tajiks Persian.


;)

[QUOTE=Shapur]LOL Kamangir you showed that you know NOTHING about this stuff!
Do you know as what my family is registered? As PERSIANS!
My oncle tell me this. He said when the census was we MUST say that we are Persians, when not then ask god for help!
Also the fact that every who is not borned directly in the so called main non-Persian provinces is Persian. So I as a Tehrani are a Persian yes?
Or my cousin from Shiraz is a Persian? Yes? NO!
We both are KURDS...

Language map:

http://modersmal.skolverket.se/nordkurdiska/nexshe/images/Geographic%20Distribution%20of%20Kurdish%20and%20other%20Iranic%20Languages_jpg.gif

To your cool census:

Teheran 11,176,139
Markazi 1,228,812
Gilan 2,241,896
Mazandaran 4,028,296
East Azerbaijan 3,325,540
West Azerbaijan 2,496,320
Bukhtaran 1,778,596
Khuzestan 3,746,772
Fars 3,817,036
Kerman 2,004,328
Khorasan 6,047,661
Esfahan 3,923,355
Sistan va Baluchestan 1,722,579
Kordestan 1,346,383
Hamadan 1,677,957
Chaharmahal va Bakhtiari 761,168
Lorestan 1,584,434
Ilam 487,886
Kohgiluyeh va Boyerahmad 544,356
Bushehr 743,675
Zanjan 1,036,873
Semnan 501,447
Yazd 750,769
Hormozgan 1,062,155
Ardabil 1,168,011
Qom 853,044

All in all: 60,055,488

Where Kurds live:
Kordestan 1,346,383
Bukhtaran 1,778,596
Ilam 487,886
3,612,865 ~ 6%

*=Not the whole Area - when only 25% of these areas are kurdish then:
*West Azerbaijan 2,496,320
*Hamadan 1,677,957
*Khorasan 6,047,661
*Gilan 2,241,896
*Mazandaran 4,028,296
4,122,943 ~ 7%

Both together would be 13% of the total population.

When we calculate that maybe Tehran has 25% kurdish population(which is more realistic when we see at the actual situation of Istanbul Turkey)

This would be 4.7% with the rest.
~17.5%

The rest of Iran has maybe 3 million Kurds in serval towns!
This would be ~5%!

All in all would Iran has a total population of Kurds of 22.5%! Which is total realistic. The Lurs are Lurs and not Persians.
You said they are 2% of the total population.
This would be 1,201,110!

Only the province Lorestan itself has more then this 2%!!! :D
Lorestan 1,584,434

I will ake it clear for you Lurs & Kurds are more then 30% of the TOTAL population of Iran. I guess that it could also be 40%.
There are not 24% Azeris in Iran.

East Azerbaijan 3,325,540
Zanjan 1,036,873

This would be ~7.3% with the Azeris in Tehran maybe 13% and not more.

Sure they are in so called census more. Khamenie the leader of Iranians is an Azeri...

But all in all the whole stuff is not important. I will say you it easy.
Persians, Arabs and Turks can hate us Kurds. We understand that.

But know ONE thing and NEVER forget this.
A kurdish woman born 4 children, a Persian woman 2 children.
The time is our friend and you will see this in Syria, in Turkey, in Iraq and sure also in Iran when we are so much that you never can slave us!!!



By the way. Tajiks aren`t Persians. Your northwestern, southerwestern Iranian is a laugh. For 40 years the scientists classifited Sorani(one of the main kurdish dialects) as a southwestern language.
The classification standards are laughable.
Sure you say Luri is southwestern, I don`t care about this.
Because a Lur has cultural 1000 times more connections with a Kurd then he will ever have with a Persian.
The Talyshians(who are a big part in Azerbaijan speak northwestern not southwestern). Your 20,000-30,000 Tatis are not important for me.
The Sogdians losted their language and speak know as Tajiks Persian.

;)[/QUOTE]

You are deluding yourself. I don't hate Kurds. I consider you as brothers. Kurds hate Persians. The differences between Persians and Kurds are not important to me. But a few days ago a Yazidi Kord came on this site and said Persians were "Gandhi Indians". I think you are starting to show your hate too.

What are you talking about Persians repressing Kurds? You can speak your own language, teach your own language in your schools and have TV/radio stations in your own language. Why can't you declare yourself as Kurd then on a census? You know as well as I do that the Kurdish secession movement from Iran was promoted by the Russians and extreme leftists. If the leader of Iran can be Azari why can't a Kord be too? We even almost had an Afghan President.

Do you think everyone in Kordestan, Kermanshah is Kurdish? Are you seriously trying to say that Ilam is Kordish? And that 25% of Gilan and Mazandaran are Kurdish? Tehran is not 25% Kurdish and you know that. What does Istanbul have to do with Tehran? Is Damascus 25% too? Please do not talk in fantasies.

Do you really think that Lorestan only has Lors? Do you really think the Lor think of themeselves as Kords? What exactly do Lors have more in common with Kords than Persians? Norouz? You aren't even from the same sect.

I didn't say the Tajiks are Persians. But the differences between us are very small. The Tajiks too indentify themselves with the Persians not with the Kords. Who cares about Sogdian? We're talking about reality not extinct languages.

You didn't answer me when I said Tati - the language of pre-Turkic Azarbayjan and Aran - was closely related to Persian not Kurdish. Talysh was not the pre-Turkic language and you know this. So this means that the pre-Turkic inhabitants of Azarbayjan and Aran were not Median; in fact they were speaking a dialect of Persian. Lori is closely related to Persian not Kurdish. So is Zaza I think too. Have a look at the following site and please don't tell me I know nothing:

www.iranianlanguages.com

I agree that there Iran is not 24% Azari. My estimate is 17-20%. You forgot to include Ardebil. The census does not say how many Azari there are. Where does it say that? Kurds are at most 10%. This is the truth. This does not mean that Kords are not as Iranian as Persians.

But, tell me, what are Persians called in Iran?

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]You are deluding yourself. I don't hate Kurds. I consider you as brothers. Kurds hate Persians. The differences between Persians and Kurds are not important to me. But a few days ago a Yazidi Kord came on this site and said Persians were "Gandhi Indians". I think you are starting to show your hate too.

What are you talking about Persians repressing Kurds? You can speak your own language, teach your own language in your schools and have TV/radio stations in your own language. Why can't you declare yourself as Kurd then on a census? You know as well as I do that the Kurdish secession movement from Iran was promoted by the Russians and extreme leftists. If the leader of Iran can be Azari why can't a Kord be too? We even almost had an Afghan President.

Do you think everyone in Kordestan, Kermanshah is Kurdish? Are you seriously trying to say that Ilam is Kordish? And that 25% of Gilan and Mazandaran are Kurdish? Tehran is not 25% Kurdish and you know that. What does Istanbul have to do with Tehran? Is Damascus 25% too? Please do not talk in fantasies.

Do you really think that Lorestan only has Lors? Do you really think the Lor think of themeselves as Kords? What exactly do Lors have more in common with Kords than Persians? Norouz? You aren't even from the same sect.

I didn't say the Tajiks are Persians. But the differences between us are very small. The Tajiks too indentify themselves with the Persians not with the Kords. Who cares about Sogdian? We're talking about reality not extinct languages.

You didn't answer me when I said Tati - the language of pre-Turkic Azarbayjan and Aran - was closely related to Persian not Kurdish. Talysh was not the pre-Turkic language and you know this. So this means that the pre-Turkic inhabitants of Azarbayjan and Aran were not Median; in fact they were speaking a dialect of Persian. Lori is closely related to Persian not Kurdish. So is Zaza I think too. Have a look at the following site and please don't tell me I know nothing:

www.iranianlanguages.com

I agree that there Iran is not 24% Azari. My estimate is 17-20%. You forgot to include Ardebil. The census does not say how many Azari there are. Where does it say that? Kurds are at most 10%. This is the truth. This does not mean that Kords are not as Iranian as Persians.

But, tell me, what are Persians called in Iran?[/QUOTE]

Persians are called Farsis in Iran... :D

The whole stuff don`t care me, I will say it so.
When Kurds are only 1% of Iran it make no matter.
In the next 4 generation there will be 50% Kurds.
When the Ottomans leave Iraq the whole kurdish population spoke Turkish.
The people from the villages came to the towns and bring the true kurdish language. Why do you think Turkey destroy so much villages in Turkey?
The same for Iran. Today there were 19 Kurds killed in Iran...
Btw sure Tajiks are near from LANGUAGE to Persians, but the most don`t feel as Persian only some who fall under Persian chauvinism propaganda.
Sogdian is the true Tajik language and maybe one day they will use again their Sogdian words...

;)

[QUOTE=Shapur]Persians are called Farsis in Iran... :D

The whole stuff don`t care me, I will say it so.
When Kurds are only 1% of Iran it make no matter.
In the next 4 generation there will be 50% Kurds.
When the Ottomans leave Iraq the whole kurdish population spoke Turkish.
The people from the villages came to the towns and bring the true kurdish language. Why do you think Turkey destroy so much villages in Turkey?
The same for Iran. Today there were 19 Kurds killed in Iran...
Btw sure Tajiks are near from LANGUAGE to Persians, but the most don`t feel as Persian only some who fall under Persian chauvinism propaganda.
Sogdian is the true Tajik language and maybe one day they will use again their Sogdian words...
;)[/QUOTE]

You know they are not called Farsis. You are confirming the stupid mistakes of foreigners when they talk about Persian this and Persian that.

If in the next 4 generations there are 50% Kords then so be it. But I think Kordish women too are having fewer children. They are included in Turkish and Iranian statistics don't you realise?

When did Persians destroy Kurdish villages like the Turks? I don't believe you that 19 Kords were killed. And if any are you know they are Isreali-sponsored extreme leftist PKK. You want to live in a PKK state friendly to Israel?

Whether they speak Tajik or Sogdian, they are true Iranians and brothers of Persians just like the Kords. Our bond is much deeper than language. It's sad that you don't feel the same.

I am an Iranian nationalist not a Persian nationalist. What are you?

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]You know they are not called Farsis. You are confirming the stupid mistakes of foreigners when they talk about Persian this and Persian that.

If in the next 4 generations there are 50% Kords then so be it. But I think Kordish women too are having fewer children. They are included in Turkish and Iranian statistics don't you realise?

When did Persians destroy Kurdish villages like the Turks? I don't believe you that 19 Kords were killed. And if any are you know they are Isreali-sponsored extreme leftist PKK. You want to live in a PKK state friendly to Israel?

Whether they speak Tajik or Sogdian, they are true Iranians and brothers of Persians just like the Kords. Our bond is much deeper than language. It's sad that you don't feel the same.

I am an Iranian nationalist not a Persian nationalist. What are you?[/QUOTE]

I never said that the whole Persians killed Kurds. The Persians are our brothers and we both are Iranians sure. But I hate it when in the western Persians say all what is kurdish is of persian origin. This is like turkish behavor.
I speak with many so called Iranian nationalists. We had the same opinions to the point what should speak the people in Kurdistan(the whole area).
They said first Persian. Do you think I am stupid?
Do you think we Kurds say to the Persians learn Kurdish instead of Persian?
Kurds must in Kurdistan learn as first Kurdish nothing else. There must be kurdish Newspapers, kurdish TVs... What should be the official language of Iran? Persian? Farsi? Which is 60% Arabic(I have the statistics).
Sure Farsi must also be an official language, but also Kurdish.
There are enough solutions. We could use an Iranian high language which is everywhere the offical language but in the special regions there are beside this also regional offical language like Kurdish, Persian, Pashtun etc..
The reality is that we Iranians are in war against the whole region.
Do you heard the newspapers? In North Ossetistan they killed people.
Our Ossetian brothers who are not less then us Iranians.
First begin to learn more about the tribes then speaking.
I don`t like who you speak everytime Persians, Persians and some times Persians and their brethens. When you are an Iranian speak about Iranian as I do.

Sepas

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]Let me first ask you what are Persians called in Iran?

I am glad that your are proud to be a Kurd. I regard the Kurds as Iranian brethren. But I just cannot believe your interpretation. Let us speak with facts.

The simple fact is that Persians have been the dominant ethnic group in Iran since ancient times. Tati (the former language of Azarbayjan and Aran) is related to Persian not Kurdish. Would Babak Khoramdin or Nezami not consider themselves as Persians?

There are not that many Lor in Iran. They surely do not make up more than 2% of the population. Just look at the census data.

http://i-cias.com/e.o/iran_provinces.htm

The Lor speak a language of the Southwestern branch of the Iranian languages but Kurdish is in the Northwestern branch. Lori cannot be a dialect of Kurdish and is more related to Persian. Moreover, they are Shia Muslim unlike the Kurd who are Sunni. I do not see how the Lor are Median. Can you prove this?

Hamedan is not a Kurdish city. I have been there. Kermanshah is on the extremity of the Kurdish populated area in Iran. The Lor and Kurds cannot form 30% of the population. Take a look at the census data again. Kurds live mostly in Kordestan, Kermanshah and Azarbayjan e Gharbi. Kurds and Lor together form around 10% of the population at most.

Khorasani, Dari, Tajik and Tati are all in the Southwestern branch of the Iranian languages and therefore related to Persian more than Kurdish. So please don't say that everyone in northern Iran is Median rather than Persian. That is not true. Gilaki and Mazandarani are in the Northwestern branch, that is true, but they are fast becoming extinct and will in time be almost totally replaced by Persian not Kurdish.

By calling me a Persian chauvinist you sound exactly like the pan-Turk Azaris. Why don't you ally with them against Iran? Pan-Aryanism is anti-Iranian. So don't talk to me about Persian chauvinism. I am an Iranian nationalist not a "white" nationalist like you.[/QUOTE]

You gave a set of brass ones to call us West Aryan Iranophiles "Anti Iranian", considring the drubbing we have taken in standing up for our East Aryan brothers. Not that this disunity is pecui;iar to East Aryans, Us Euro-Aryans have it just as bad and probably worse.
Now it is true that we are against ANY false cultural nationalism, whether its Iranian, American, British etc. An American Negro is not an American (Which is really a complex evolving mixture made up of every Aryan nationality on earth, a new White ethnicity still in the process of being born which we can hopefully save before NWO destroys it).A Negro in Britian is not an Englishman, and a Hezara , despite speaking Persian , is not an Iranian.
Throe Hezaras, mixed Baluchis, Kuzhkstani Arabs, and Monglo Turkmen into the Iranioan mix in the name of a false cultural nationalism, and you will destroy everything that is Iranian. The accusation that many make here of Iranians being muds will than come true
RACE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS

diablo

[QUOTE=JB112]Does Kamagirl really think that the people who brought the original Indo-European language into Iran were anything but a conquering minority that was ultimately absorbed into the indigenous mass of inhabitants who already lived there? Same as India, Afghanistan, and the rest of the Middle East where White-skinned, fair, Indo-Europeans settled in small numbers. You still see many people in India, Iran and Afghanistan, as well as Turkey and amongst the Kurds who have fair features. In ancient times long before the Turks and Arabs came, the Medes and Persians were only two groups in what's now considered Iran. These two groups were not the only groups. Iran is a blend of many racial elements, and is not just cordoned off between Persians, Turks, and Arabs, but has much overlap and interchange between these groups. And each of these groups in turn is composed of a variety of racial elements. The modern day Persians are in no way shape or form Aryans; they simply speak a derivative speech which is vaguely connected to that spoken by those Aryan conquerors who introduced it, and vaguely related to all other European forms of speech derived from this ancestral language. There were other languages spoken before it, and it has undoubtedly changed over time. Today's Iranians reflect the continually blending mixture of all the racial elements that over the millennia have fused into a nationality in a specific geographic area. They're different now than in the past because of this continual blending of formerly separate elements. 3,500 years ago Iran, like India, was dominated by a fair type of people of Indo-European speech who over the course of time ceased to be a distinct element in the population. You'll still see some of these people in isolated areas or in individual anomalies; often among Indian actors and actresses. In the ancient Indian religious texts you'll find references to blond haired and bearded Gods, the same thunder-wielding, Sky-ruling God of the Greeks and the Romans and the Germans: Dyeus-pater, Zeus-pater, Jupiter: Sky-father, who became Thor in Germanic mythology when the legendary Norse chief Odin was elevated to the status of God. If you look at the lingually 'Persian' segment of the Iranian population you'll find a variety of physical types and features. You will find little homogeneity anywhere in the Middle East, and all the genetic tests in the world will not convince one against the evidence of one's own eyes; the waving around of totally meaningless genetic evidence is but a crutch of faith on which to lean for those who want to believe in their 'purity.' Purity is homogeneity. Persians don't have it and haven't for a long time. You won't find any Aryan homogeneity outside of parts of Northern Europe. As for Europeans in general, well, these exclusively European blends are more to our taste; a mixture we can live with... Nordic, Alpine, Mediterranean, Dinaric... so long as we respect the internal rights of each group and nationality to its own homogeneity and purity, there is no need for any conflict between Europeans.[/QUOTE]

If that was the case than the so called "Pre-Aryan" mass of people there must have been White also, just as the Pre-Aryan Old Europeans were.The difference Its my own belief, and Shapur has supplied abundant evidence of this, that Aryan were indigenous to Iran, it being understood that that Ancient Iran sprawled over a significantly larger Area than the modern one, most especially including much of Central Asia.
The differencebetween thepopulation of Iran and India is striking, so this analogy cannot be used.


diablo

[QUOTE=Shapur]I never said that the whole Persians killed Kurds. The Persians are our brothers and we both are Iranians sure. But I hate it when in the western Persians say all what is kurdish is of persian origin. This is like turkish behavor.
I speak with many so called Iranian nationalists. We had the same opinions to the point what should speak the people in Kurdistan(the whole area).
They said first Persian. Do you think I am stupid?
Do you think we Kurds say to the Persians learn Kurdish instead of Persian?
Kurds must in Kurdistan learn as first Kurdish nothing else. There must be kurdish Newspapers, kurdish TVs... What should be the official language of Iran? Persian? Farsi? Which is 60% Arabic(I have the statistics).
Sure Farsi must also be an official language, but also Kurdish.
There are enough solutions. We could use an Iranian high language which is everywhere the offical language but in the special regions there are beside this also regional offical language like Kurdish, Persian, Pashtun etc..
The reality is that we Iranians are in war against the whole region.
Do you heard the newspapers? In North Ossetistan they killed people.
Our Ossetian brothers who are not less then us Iranians.
First begin to learn more about the tribes then speaking.
I don`t like who you speak everytime Persians, Persians and some times Persians and their brethens. When you are an Iranian speak about Iranian as I do.

Sepas[/QUOTE]

Dorood

Persian is a synonym for Iranian in the West. Persians are simply Iranians (Persian, Parthians, Scythians and so on) who have discarded their tribal identity and adopted only the Iranian identity. So, strictly, Persians are simply Iranians proper (by that I mean their only identity is Iranian). There are some Iranian groups (Kords, Tajiks, Gilakis, Lors) who are still Iranian but not Iranian proper (or Persian) because they still have a tribal identity. So I don't mean to say that only tribal Persians are true Iranians (I myself am from Tehran and Mashhad so I'm from nowhere near Fars).

If I am being honest, I no longer consider Pashtuns as Iranian and they can go to hell for all I care. This is because they do not think of themselves as Iranian. In fact, they spit on Iran and have forgotten all Iranian customs (Nowrouz etc). Many identify with India more than Iran (although looking at their genetics they have been heavily Indianised like the Parsis). Many Kords hate Iran too sadly but at least they have not forgotten most of their Iranian ways. I have not spoken to Ossetians (or should that be Ironians) but I should imagine they are like the Pashtuns (although I hope they are not). Iran is our country not Afghanistan or Kordestan or Iron. I hope you agree with what I am saying as an Iranian nationalist.

Kords should learn Kordish (I'll leave the dialect up to you ;)) and Persian together. As I understand it, this is the situation in schools in Kordish areas of Iran today. And Kords should have their own newspapers and TV/radio stations. This does no harm to Iran; in fact, it makes Iran stronger in my opinion.

Iran must have a single official language for practical reasons. This should be Persian because it is the majority language of Iran (soon the Gilaki and Mazandarani will cease to use their own dialects/languages and I think the same will happen with the Lori and Bakhtiari now that most have settled). If Kordish were made an official language then we would also have to make Azari an official language (I would oppose that strongly and I hope you would to). So it would not be feasible to make Kordish an official language. If it were to become an official language (and Azari doesn't) though I would not lose sleep over it (but to be honest I don't see that happening).

Anything that is Kordish is Kordish (not Persian) and Iranian. Likewise, anything that is Persian is Persian and Iranian. Could you tell me what Kordish achievements Persians have stolen?

Languages are classified by their grammatical structure and phonology. Thus, Persian is an Indo-European language and Arabic is a Semitic language. Many languages borrow words from other languages but this does not make them related. So Persian is not 60% Arabic. Still, I think it's essential that Arabic words should be purged from Persian (and I understand that even the current regime is taking some steps to do so). So a pure Persian should be the official language.

[QUOTE=diabloblanco92]You gave a set of brass ones to call us West Aryan Iranophiles "Anti Iranian", considring the drubbing we have taken in standing up for our East Aryan brothers. Not that this disunity is pecui;iar to East Aryans, Us Euro-Aryans have it just as bad and probably worse.
Now it is true that we are against ANY false cultural nationalism, whether its Iranian, American, British etc. An American Negro is not an American (Which is really a complex evolving mixture made up of every Aryan nationality on earth, a new White ethnicity still in the process of being born which we can hopefully save before NWO destroys it).A Negro in Britian is not an Englishman, and a Hezara , despite speaking Persian , is not an Iranian.
Throe Hezaras, mixed Baluchis, Kuzhkstani Arabs, and Monglo Turkmen into the Iranioan mix in the name of a false cultural nationalism, and you will destroy everything that is Iranian. The accusation that many make here of Iranians being muds will than come true
RACE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS

diablo[/QUOTE]

I don't think you hurt the Iranian cause deliberately (and I appreciate your efforts somewhat) but an indirect result of your Pan-Aryanism is to hurt the Pan-Iranianism. Iranians need to put all our efforts into uniting Iranian peoples first. If you haven't noticed, we are not doing so well at the moment with Iranian people fragmented across several states (sometimes openly hostile to one another due to the manipulations of outside forces) and with a terrible regime in charge of the Motherland. Italians, Greeks and others do not have the problems we do (Cyprus is a picnic compared to what we face). We have to learn to walk before we can think about running if you see what I mean.

I don't have a problem with a Hazara or Turkmen idenitifying his nationality and culture as being Iranian (the Hazara are much more repsectful of Iran than our supposed brothers the Pashtuns for instance). Persians very rarely marry those minorities who don't look like themselves. That's why Persians will marry Azari, Gilaki or Kords but I have not heard of a Persian marrying a Turkmen, Arab or even Baluchi (if you can cite an example I wil be much obliged). The same can be said for all groups in Iran. Iranians are very ethnically aware and intermarriage between the groups is rare. Moreover, we do not have Negroids in our country to breed with quite frankly. In fact, a Negroid in Iran will find himself treated as a circus freak his kind is so rare.

Fuck the Kurds. They fight for Israel if it tosses them a bone, as our neocons did with the Iraq invasion. And fuck the Pashtuns. Join the greater Islamic Protectorate of the IRI or get your Israeli passport and, sure, watch Telavivision in your own puny Indo-Iranian dialect. The Kurds have always been a thorn in the side of whomever is not kissing their asses. Maybe they should cut down on their pride a little! If Iranians are really Kurds, why do South Ossetians call their country Ironston and their language Iron? That's a puzzle for Shapur, Proud Little Kord. PLK! That could be a new Kurdish liberation group. Woohooooo. Everything is to break over whether Kurdish kids write in Kurdish or Farsi. By God, what a fitting end to the peoples of the Vaejah! Fuck 'em all: I hope Israel blows us all to Hell, vain idiots that we are.

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]I don't think you hurt the Iranian cause deliberately (and I appreciate your efforts somewhat) but an indirect result of your Pan-Aryanism is to hurt the Pan-Iranianism. Iranians need to put all our efforts into uniting Iranian peoples first. If you haven't noticed, we are not doing so well at the moment with Iranian people fragmented across several states (sometimes openly hostile to one another due to the manipulations of outside forces) and with a terrible regime in charge of the Motherland. Italians, Greeks and others do not have the problems we do (Cyprus is a picnic compared to what we face). We have to learn to walk before we can think about running if you see what I mean.

I don't have a problem with a Hazara or Turkmen idenitifying his nationality and culture as being Iranian (the Hazara are much more repsectful of Iran than our supposed brothers the Pashtuns for instance). Persians very rarely marry those minorities who don't look like themselves. That's why Persians will marry Azari, Gilaki or Kords but I have not heard of a Persian marrying a Turkmen, Arab or even Baluchi (if you can cite an example I wil be much obliged). The same can be said for all groups in Iran. Iranians are very ethnically aware and intermarriage between the groups is rare. Moreover, we do not have Negroids in our country to breed with quite frankly. In fact, a Negroid in Iran will find himself treated as a circus freak his kind is so rare.[/QUOTE]

Blah blah blah, same fatal naivete from the "Iranian nationalist" bozo who thinks he can divorce Iran and Islam without consequence. It's really something! Before Khomeini, you had the Jewish playground of Pahlavi Jr.; after Khomeini, you have a great nation which fundamentally opposes Jewry and imposes modesty - endangered virtue - and yet you would think that your puny "Iranian nationalism", in the event of conflict ending velayat-e faqih, would pull through as the new face of Persia! Wonderful, stunning naivete, incalculably dangerous myopia and vanity! Same shit as anywhere else in "WN" thought, same vanity and lack of foresight. I hope we all get bombed by Israel very soon and they start importing Africans to rape our women and kill our sons because I just do not care to see our generation give birth to one even worse than we, as we surely would if we weren't too busy aborting ourselves. Oh, Iran has no nigger problem! So let's get rid of the Islamic Republic and see what happens! Brilliant! I have never heard of such a far-seeing, logical plan as this: get rid of the most effective check on Jewry today and everything will be great. Really really honky-dory great in old Persia, where you have no "color problem", as another "Iranian nationalist" put it to me -- in pink text, even. Iranians are very ethnically aware but they are a world away from jewishly aware, where we in the West are triply superior to your people. We have had the longer schooling in Jewry, and if you weren't so fucking proud and stupid you'd take your cue from us, take us as a warning, and thank your fucking stars you have the IRI to protect your asses from Israel and "human rights groups". But no! No, instead, it's "Iranian nationalism", i.e. self-indulgence: everything is to revolve on the matter of hejab, because God knows no one is happy if the women aren't happy! Yes, the only pressing matter is hejab: not Jewry, not African invasion, not the Big Lie, not the vices which ruin our nations, no -- only hejab and severe punishment for criminals! Because everyone knows criminals should be treated well, pampered like babies, and women should be allowed to paint their faces and walk around looking no better than common whores, which in fact they are, 10/1. You goddamned monafeqin! it is YOU who pervert and harm Iranian nationalism, because YOU would see the IRI lying in the dust for Israel and the US to trample on, while you filthy malcontents put on whore outfits and take up all the vices which have made we Westerners such god-awful idiots! Fuck your "nationalism", for it spells the ruin of your nation, and if you can't see that, I hope that ruin swallows you first!

[QUOTE=MrOutis]Blah blah blah, same fatal naivete from the "Iranian nationalist" bozo who thinks he can divorce Iran and Islam without consequence. It's really something! Before Khomeini, you had the Jewish playground of Pahlavi Jr.; after Khomeini, you have a great nation which fundamentally opposes Jewry and imposes modesty - endangered virtue - and yet you would think that your puny "Iranian nationalism", in the event of conflict ending velayat-e faqih, would pull through as the new face of Persia! Wonderful, stunning naivete, incalculably dangerous myopia and vanity! Same shit as anywhere else in "WN" thought, same vanity and lack of foresight. I hope we all get bombed by Israel very soon and they start importing Africans to rape our women and kill our sons because I just do not care to see our generation give birth to one even worse than we, as we surely would if we weren't too busy aborting ourselves. Oh, Iran has no nigger problem! So let's get rid of the Islamic Republic and see what happens! Brilliant! I have never heard of such a far-seeing, logical plan as this: get rid of the most effective check on Jewry today and everything will be great. Really really honky-dory great in old Persia, where you have no "color problem", as another "Iranian nationalist" put it to me -- in pink text, even. Iranians are very ethnically aware but they are a world away from jewishly aware, where we in the West are triply superior to your people. We have had the longer schooling in Jewry, and if you weren't so fucking proud and stupid you'd take your cue from us, take us as a warning, and thank your fucking stars you have the IRI to protect your asses from Israel and "human rights groups". But no! No, instead, it's "Iranian nationalism", i.e. self-indulgence: everything is to revolve on the matter of hejab, because God knows no one is happy if the women aren't happy! Yes, the only pressing matter is hejab: not Jewry, not African invasion, not the Big Lie, not the vices which ruin our nations, no -- only hejab and severe punishment for criminals! Because everyone knows criminals should be treated well, pampered like babies, and women should be allowed to paint their faces and walk around looking no better than common whores, which in fact they are, 10/1. You goddamned monafeqin! it is YOU who pervert and harm Iranian nationalism, because YOU would see the IRI lying in the dust for Israel and the US to trample on, while you filthy malcontents put on whore outfits and take up all the vices which have made we Westerners such god-awful idiots! Fuck your "nationalism", for it spells the ruin of your nation, and if you can't see that, I hope that ruin swallows you first![/QUOTE]

This is the same IR that continues to sell oil to Israel through British and Dutch intermediaries. This is the same IR that continues to buy weapons from the "Zionist entity". Most of this is bluster. Iran will not wipe Israel from the map and it has no intention of doing so. Let's be honest Jews could not care less if women prance about in bikinis or homosexuals are hanged in Iran. These trivial matters are not important to them. The social policies of the IR neither help nor hurt Israel.

So what is Iran's role? It is to form an effective counterbalance to Israel and keep their influence in check. You see most Iranians are very much more wary of Jews than Europeans and Americans (after all isn't Western civilisation now charmingly known as Judeo-Christian civilisation in the USA?). Iranians will openly talk about their opinions of Jews (as they did under the Pahlavi regime) while most Europeans and Americans have been programmed to steer clear of those "stereotypes". Whether there is a monarchy, IR or secular nationalist republic (my preference) would not change this ceteris paribus (the Jews have ways of "co-opting" any regime if it slips up).

Moreover, Ashkenazi Jews are very much different from Iranian Jews (and other "Oriental" Jews). We did not have much trouble with our own Jews before the Ashkenazi (who no doubt see themselves as superior to other Jews) started turning up on our doorstep.

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]This is the same IR that continues to sell oil to Israel through British and Dutch intermediaries. This is the same IR that continues to buy weapons from the "Zionist entity".[/QUOTE]

I could read this crap on Ha'aretz. Show me a receipt, eh? Some kind of evidence that this happens. One reads it all the time from you pusilanimous Iranian malcontents and never sees a scrap of evidence. And anyway, so what if a few barrels of oil escape to Israel? this is supposed to be one's cue to despair of the IRI entirely? A reasonable man, politically savvy, requires a bit more on the scales to condemn a regime. You, on the other hand, as a malcontent, will use any excuse. I will not.

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]Most of this is bluster. Iran will not wipe Israel from the map[/QUOTE]

Only because it would be checked in a conflict well before any strike could be made on Israel. I understand what you're trying to do here; I do the same when someone else says big bad "Mother Rooosiya" will rush to the defense of Iran, which is intolerable wishful-thinking. You go too far, however, in claiming "it has no intention of doing so" -- in effect, you negate the very existence of the IRI. It is even more effective than Western approaches to negation, because you take a sly, inside tack, hissing in our ears that "the mullahs work with the Israelis", as many of you monafeqin have done in my presence. It is, I think, more a line you feed others - and yourselves - than a true picture of the Iranian government and defense forces. You would have us believe that the mullahs are mafiosi, the Jews pull their strings too, etc., to satisfy your own inner need to nullify the validity of the mullahs, to bring down velayat-e faqih. And hey, that's fine, brother: if you'd rather live in the Jewish Democracy of Iran, I hope it comes for you. I know you'll be much more at home in that kind of shithole than under a regime that would have you be modest, earnest and religious.

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]You see most Iranians are very much more wary of Jews than Europeans and Americans[/QUOTE]

This is incorrect. You are preening, and it is false. What you are pointing out is the absence of a taboo which the Jews have produced here; while Iranians may have the freedom to say "Jews stink", and we don't, those of us here who do know the Jew know him a thousand times better than you Asians ever will, and this is because they have destroyed our peoples and nations, not yours. We know their ways best because they spared not a single moment in their quest to shatter us; they became bankers, journalists, intellectuals, politicians solely to destroy us. And you think Iran knows the Jew better than we do, we handfuls of world-wary White Nationalist outcasts? Get your fucking obtuse arrogance back in your pocket! Do not presume to tell me or any of us that YOU know the Jew when it is YOU who would see the IRI destroyed. THAT is showing how much you know the damn Jew, you myopic fool! The ONLY reason you can talk about Jews openly is that the IRI guarantees that freedom: everywhere else in the world - or nearly everywhere - the Jew is around to clamp down on such expression. And the moment you malcontents start kicking at the mullahs, mark my word, the Jew cheers, he announces it in a thousand triumphant articles in a million different organs worldwide: IRANIANS ARE FED UP! READ ALL ABOUT IT! -- But you are too selfish to grasp this, and this too shows how innocent you are of the Jewish bacillus. You might even succeed in making me hope that one day you too will be so supremely fucked by the Jew that I can point and say, I told you so. But even then you will be too arrogant to admit it.

[QUOTE=Kamangir42](the Jews have ways of "co-opting" any regime if it slips up)[/QUOTE]

Yes, and vile weakling dropouts like yourself are just such a slip-up. Remember: whenever you criticize the IRI, a Jew takes heart.

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]Moreover, Ashkenazi Jews are very much different from Iranian Jews (and other "Oriental" Jews).[/QUOTE]

You are obviously not dealing with someone new to the Iranian question, so why speak to me as though I am? I have told people this trivial fact a thousand times. Yes, they are different, but so what? The Iranian Jews are irrelevant. If they agitate for Israel they should be shot, down to the last six-nosed infant. Jews deserve no quarter anymore. They may have in the past, but they do not now.

I am amazed by the rigidity of the Iranian nationalist type. I have spoken with at least a dozen of you now and not a one has shown flexibility in their outlook. It's like talking to communists. I might as well be talking to the MEK! No doubt you look up to those Marxist creeps. "National Bolshevism", they're calling it now. Eurasia blah blah.

I don't care. God. You people give me no hope for anything. I thought I'd find at least one Iranian burning to defend the Republic, but maybe that type of Iranian doesn't use the internet. Probably that is the case: the only Iranians one finds online are dropout malcontents, looking for vice-satisfaction in form or another -- sex, music, secular nationalism. All short-sighted fools unknowingly at work in the impurity of their souls for Jewish world domination. So be it! Shalom.

[QUOTE=Kamangir42]I don't think you hurt the Iranian cause deliberately (and I appreciate your efforts somewhat) but an indirect result of your Pan-Aryanism is to hurt the Pan-Iranianism. Iranians need to put all our efforts into uniting Iranian peoples first. If you haven't noticed, we are not doing so well at the moment with Iranian people fragmented across several states (sometimes openly hostile to one another due to the manipulations of outside forces) and with a terrible regime in charge of the Motherland. Italians, Greeks and others do not have the problems we do (Cyprus is a picnic compared to what we face). We have to learn to walk before we can think about running if you see what I mean.

I don't have a problem with a Hazara or Turkmen idenitifying his nationality and culture as being Iranian (the Hazara are much more repsectful of Iran than our supposed brothers the Pashtuns for instance). Persians very rarely marry those minorities who don't look like themselves. That's why Persians will marry Azari, Gilaki or Kords but I have not heard of a Persian marrying a Turkmen, Arab or even Baluchi (if you can cite an example I wil be much obliged). The same can be said for all groups in Iran. Iranians are very ethnically aware and intermarriage between the groups is rare. Moreover, we do not have Negroids in our country to breed with quite frankly. In fact, a Negroid in Iran will find himself treated as a circus freak his kind is so rare.[/QUOTE]

I agree that it is of vital importance for all Iranians to unite,and certainly to throw off the odious government they are suffering under. Pan Iranianism and Pan Aryanism need not be in conflict, anymore than Pan Slavism, Pan Germanism, American manifest Destiny in North America (We could call it Pan Americanism, but that would sound like the mname of a defuncy airline, LOL)
As long as Pan Aryanism does not propose a worldwide Aryan superstate, and very few of us do, there need be no conflict.
The strong racial awareness Iranians display, even if it is not as formal as the West Aryan brand, is exactly why(among other reasons) we believe that Iranians have such a vital role to play in securing the existence of all Aryans. Sadly,it is an increasingly scarce thing these days.
Yes, there are some complex problems od disunity among Iranians, as well as the issue of recovering the huge numbers or racially Iranian but culturally or linguistically Arabized or Turkified people such as the Azeris.
However as you can see from this board (Though it is an exxageration and caricture), West Aryans have plenty of a need to unite also.

diablo

[QUOTE=diabloblanco92]The strong racial awareness Iranians display, even if it is not as formal as the West Aryan brand, is exactly why(among other reasons) we believe that Iranians have such a vital role to play in securing the existence of all Aryans.[/QUOTE]

What uninspiring verbiage. Truly amazed by your obtuseness, db. But so be it; when the IR falls and Iran goes to the Jew, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you were on the side of the unimportant "Iranian nationalists" who sought to overthrow their "odious government", as though these traitorous mostazafin have any strength beyond what the IR sifts down to them.

God knows WNs only care about their own satisfaction. If it means shirking the duty of supporting the only Republic left in the world that will openly oppose Jewry, because some 'nationalists' are unhappy, and if it means glossing over this fatal traduction with empty verbiage like "vital role to play in securing the existence of all Aryans" - as though that role depended on something other than the Republican air force, the Pasdaran and Basij - no matter: if it sounds good, and it's "nationalist", and White, well hey, it's gotta be good and I'm lovin' it.

@Kamangir: What do you know about Pashtuns? Nothing!
What do you know about genetics? Only these fucking manipulated statistics?
I don`t care about statistics, I saw many Pashtuns and I can say they are not less then Kurds or Persians are Iranians. For you Iranians are people of Iran. I don`t care about this fucking shit. Iran is nothing for me only a country with a radical Islamic leader who want to destroy everything what is Iranian. Also the Kurds in the whole are more Iranian as the most Persians.
Sure you will bring arguments against this but look on Farsi it is an Arabic language. Kurdish is to 90% pure Iranian and mostly the Botan dialect of Turkey. Avestan which is the purest IE language in the world!
Look:

Avestan: Hor/Mazen/Megesh/Azem
Kurdish: Xor/Mezin/Meges/Ez
Persian: Aftab/Bozorg/Pashe/Man
English Sun/Big/Fly/I

Compere Kurdish with German:
Hebun = Haben, Bun = Bin, Ez = Ich , Tu = Du, Te = Dein, Min = Mein
Sure Persian has also many simmilarties but not like Kurdish, because Kurdish is the purest Iranian language with Ossetian and Pashtun which is still exist.

I don`t care about your ideology as first I am a Pan-Aryan and secondary for my culture a Pan-Iranian.

[QUOTE=Shapur]Sure you will bring arguments against this but look on Farsi it is an Arabic language. Kurdish is to 90% pure Iranian and mostly the Botan dialect of Turkey. Avestan which is the purest IE language in the world![/QUOTE]Farsi is in the Indo-European language family. I believe they use a modified Arabic script to write the language.

[QUOTE=Shapur]@Kamangir: What do you know about Pashtuns? Nothing!
What do you know about genetics? Only these fucking manipulated statistics?
I don`t care about statistics, I saw many Pashtuns and I can say they are not less then Kurds or Persians are Iranians. For you Iranians are people of Iran. I don`t care about this fucking shit. Iran is nothing for me only a country with a radical Islamic leader who want to destroy everything what is Iranian. Also the Kurds in the whole are more Iranian as the most Persians.
Sure you will bring arguments against this but look on Farsi it is an Arabic language. Kurdish is to 90% pure Iranian and mostly the Botan dialect of Turkey. Avestan which is the purest IE language in the world!
Look:

Avestan: Hor/Mazen/Megesh/Azem
Kurdish: Xor/Mezin/Meges/Ez
Persian: Aftab/Bozorg/Pashe/Man
English Sun/Big/Fly/I

Compere Kurdish with German:
Hebun = Haben, Bun = Bin, Ez = Ich , Tu = Du, Te = Dein, Min = Mein
Sure Persian has also many simmilarties but not like Kurdish, because Kurdish is the purest Iranian language with Ossetian and Pashtun which is still exist.

I don`t care about your ideology as first I am a Pan-Aryan and secondary for my culture a Pan-Iranian.[/QUOTE]

Then you are a vatan foroosh Aniranian. I realise that you don't care about Iranians you only want to be accepted as an Aryan by these foreigners.

Persians have always been the heart of Iran. Without Persians there would be no Iran. Pashtuns are a bunch of anti-Iranian backward tribespeople.

Pashtuns have much more South Asian mtDNA (more than 50%) than Persians and Kurds.

Source: Quintana-Murci et al., Where West Meets East: The Complex mtDNA Landscape of the Southwest and Central Asian Corridor, Am. J. Hum. Genet. 74:000–000, 2004

The Pahstun are only 87% Caucasoid and 9% (!) Mongoloid according to autosomal loci DNA testing.

Source: http://www.dienekes.com/blog/archives/000619.html

I highly doubt Pashto does not have a significant number of Dravidian words.

Most Pashtuns I have met are hostile to Iran and prefer being part of Pakistan. They are traitors. See the following thread for a typical Pashtun attack on Iran.

http://dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=guess&action=display&num=1080032292

They should be begging us to be part of Iran.

Your arguments about language are fallacious. Here take a look at a language tree before you make a fool of yourself.

http://img19.exs.cx/img19/2181/iranianlanguages.jpg

Oh A map and A statistic. How horrible!
LOL! Kamangir you showed that you are an Ániranian and Antiiranian!

Persians have always been the heart of Iran. Without Persians there would be no Iran. Pashtuns are a bunch of anti-Iranian backward tribespeople.

You see this is CHAUVINISM!

You know nothing about A) Linguistic B) Genetic C) History

But don`t be worry I am working at a book and when you read it you have all right information about the truth. The book is avaible on English, German, Persian, Kurdish, Pashtun.

Bybye :D