FranzJoseph
08-19-2004, 10:46 PM
A little something unusual for us Arthur/Grail freaks:
The below is about the connections between the ancient Magyars (Hungarians) and the Arthurian folktales. Some interesting stuff here and lots I had not heard of before.
Anyway I was looking for lots of things today and this was the most interesting nugget. It's an online book so I haven't read it all. What I have read is quite interesting!
Link a the bottom. Some of the good stuff:
Arthur
Geoffrey Ashe mentions that the Celts have no mythology in which a god by the name of Arthur can be found.
In Magyar traditions the name Artur leads us to our Őstörök nation, the Etruscans, and the prehistory of the Turanian peoples. The second syllable of this name “tur” means bull and a maleness. This word describes our beautiful Sun’s daily journey and return just as much it describes the circling flight of the falcon, which the Török group called Turul-bird. In this context Arthur’s name means Bull Man, Sun man, whose role is linked inseparably with his return.
Britain’s ancient history begins, as does the Magyar with Fairy traditions which are also an inseparable part of the Arthurian legends. It is interesting to note, that the Mythology of the British Isles preserved a memory, according to which these fairies spoke in the language of the Troyans. As Arthur’s name is connected with the Magyar túr, so is the name of Troy. As long as the name of Arthur cannot be tied to any of the Celtic god names, there is ample proof that this name was part once of Magyar Mythology, celebrated today in a festival of the so called „Turka-járás”, a part of the Winter Solstice celebration. Arthur, or better Artur was once the personification of the Son just as much as was the Magyar Miklós Toldi. In later Germanic mythologies we find Tor, William Tell with the same role and names. The feminine of this word is “tér," which means a well defined, material space, and also a closed circle as does the related English word: turn. The Etruscan goddess Turan was personification of the round Earth and their country; the later Latin word terra was derived from here.
*
Arthur’s sword
One Arthurian legend holds that his sword was embedded in a huge stone and only a very deserving person, destined to be king can extract it. This legend was preserved by Sir Thomas Malory in the 15th century AD. (3:Vol.4:626) The ancient Magyar method of changing iron into steel was the following: the swords were stuck blade up into a mound exposing them to lightning. When lightning hit these swords their molecular structure changed and made their material far better than it was before. They were also touched by God in the most literal sense since the Magyar expression for lightning is “The arrow of God” (Isten nyila). The sword in the stone may also be connected with the knowledge of extracting iron from ore, in which the sword was embedded and has to be extracted, in a very literal sense. The well known story of Atilla’s sword, which became called God’s Sword (Isten kardja) originated in such a method of sword craftsmanship. According to this story a shepherd boy found a piece of iron sticking out of the meadow. He tried to lift it out, but the sword started to flame and jumped out of the earth. As it cooled down the boy took the sword to Atilla realizing that this is fit for a king only. The episode of the flaming sword brings the lightning stricken swords to mind. The first iron foundries of Europe were in Hámor, Bors county of Hungary. At the much later time of Árpád in the ninth century iron was also extracted from the iron ore found free in the meadows and each center of the seven dukes had such foundries.****
According to the second version Arthur’s sword was made by fairies and an arm emerging from the waters handed it to him; the sword’s return at the end of Arthur’s life followed the same pattern. This sword was called Excalibur. British scholarship originates this word from the Latin chalybs, meaning steel. This etymology is believed to be uncertain, which shows that the origin of the story, the names have not originated within the English culture sphere, even though it is very much a part of the thought process of the English people. Irish tradition calls the sword Caladbold, and this is the older version of the sword legend.
The Magyar kar, kard words are related to the cal syllable, but it is also related to the word hal which means to sink and to die. An arm lifts the sword out of the water and this arm sinks into the waters with the sword is expressed the following way in the Magyar language: “Kar emeli ki a kardot a vízből, s a kar a karddal a vízbe hal.” If we take the Magyar translation of Excalibur and equate the syllable cal with sinking, the bur syllable with castle we get the meaning of “from the sunken castle”. This translation becomes even more plausible when we take into consideration that the Magyar name of the Holy Grail’s original owner is Halász Király (Fisher King) who lived in a perpetual state of near-death (halál). The linguistic connection of this legend is easily understood based on the Magyar language.
In Denmark a great many swords were found buried into a watery grave. According to Magyar symbology the sword and its cover was a symbol of life as the water was too. A great word cluster relates to this idea.
*
The Holy Grail
Geoffrey Ashe, the dedicated researcher of the Arthurian legends believes that the Holy Grail is a summation of the male-female principle and symbols. At the base of Magyar consciousness is the knowledge of the interchangeability of energy and matter. This knowledge was built into their language and is also part of their symbology. The pure gold sun-cap of the ancient Magyar kings, as a cap when worn round side up on one’s head was considered a male symbol, which united heaven and earth into a creating unit. According to Magyar legends only a man, who was chosen by the Holy crown can become king. The last such king was Hollós Mátyás, Mathias Corvinus. Tradition holds that the Holy Crown just appeared on his head and in this way did it become apparent who should be King. Both the Hollós and the Corvinus cognomens and the Magyar names of the raven (holló) holding a ring (gyűrű) which appear on their family crest belong into the large K-R wordgroup as does the word grail. Matthias Corvinus Rex’s famous library and his Corvinae may have held great amounts of European early history. Pitifully they have become scattered by foreign invaders. The presence of ravens is greatly connected with the Arthurian legends and a still nurtured, living tradition in England.
When the cap is used as a cup, a vessel, hollow side up it becomes a symbol of femininity, which is able to contain, to enfold. Yet the cap and the cup are both essentially the same. The Magyar language expresses this concept of interchangeability of energy, which is considered the male principle of creation and matter, which is the female principle through the reciprocity of words. The Magyar bak (buck) is a male, its reciprocal form kupa (cup) is a female symbol along with the word kap (to receive). One also must note that the Magyar and English words are identical both in meaning and form. There are several hundred words identical between the Magyar and English language, which is the subject of a separate study. I will touch only upon the few words closely related to this present article.
The memory of the gold Magyar Sun-crown was handed down from ancient traditions. The object and its symbology originated in a time when only Magyars (the original meaning of this word is “human”) lived on this earth in a happy Golden Age. Later historical epochs handed down this symbol to many generations where these still live in their souls, language and traditions. When overpopulation of the Carpathian basin spilled over to the neighboring lands and new successive societies were formed this symbol still remained important in the mythology of Magyar peoples. Let us take a look what the Greek authors wrote...
Rest of the book:
http://www.acronet.net/~magyar/english/1997-3/GRAIL.htm
The below is about the connections between the ancient Magyars (Hungarians) and the Arthurian folktales. Some interesting stuff here and lots I had not heard of before.
Anyway I was looking for lots of things today and this was the most interesting nugget. It's an online book so I haven't read it all. What I have read is quite interesting!
Link a the bottom. Some of the good stuff:
Arthur
Geoffrey Ashe mentions that the Celts have no mythology in which a god by the name of Arthur can be found.
In Magyar traditions the name Artur leads us to our Őstörök nation, the Etruscans, and the prehistory of the Turanian peoples. The second syllable of this name “tur” means bull and a maleness. This word describes our beautiful Sun’s daily journey and return just as much it describes the circling flight of the falcon, which the Török group called Turul-bird. In this context Arthur’s name means Bull Man, Sun man, whose role is linked inseparably with his return.
Britain’s ancient history begins, as does the Magyar with Fairy traditions which are also an inseparable part of the Arthurian legends. It is interesting to note, that the Mythology of the British Isles preserved a memory, according to which these fairies spoke in the language of the Troyans. As Arthur’s name is connected with the Magyar túr, so is the name of Troy. As long as the name of Arthur cannot be tied to any of the Celtic god names, there is ample proof that this name was part once of Magyar Mythology, celebrated today in a festival of the so called „Turka-járás”, a part of the Winter Solstice celebration. Arthur, or better Artur was once the personification of the Son just as much as was the Magyar Miklós Toldi. In later Germanic mythologies we find Tor, William Tell with the same role and names. The feminine of this word is “tér," which means a well defined, material space, and also a closed circle as does the related English word: turn. The Etruscan goddess Turan was personification of the round Earth and their country; the later Latin word terra was derived from here.
*
Arthur’s sword
One Arthurian legend holds that his sword was embedded in a huge stone and only a very deserving person, destined to be king can extract it. This legend was preserved by Sir Thomas Malory in the 15th century AD. (3:Vol.4:626) The ancient Magyar method of changing iron into steel was the following: the swords were stuck blade up into a mound exposing them to lightning. When lightning hit these swords their molecular structure changed and made their material far better than it was before. They were also touched by God in the most literal sense since the Magyar expression for lightning is “The arrow of God” (Isten nyila). The sword in the stone may also be connected with the knowledge of extracting iron from ore, in which the sword was embedded and has to be extracted, in a very literal sense. The well known story of Atilla’s sword, which became called God’s Sword (Isten kardja) originated in such a method of sword craftsmanship. According to this story a shepherd boy found a piece of iron sticking out of the meadow. He tried to lift it out, but the sword started to flame and jumped out of the earth. As it cooled down the boy took the sword to Atilla realizing that this is fit for a king only. The episode of the flaming sword brings the lightning stricken swords to mind. The first iron foundries of Europe were in Hámor, Bors county of Hungary. At the much later time of Árpád in the ninth century iron was also extracted from the iron ore found free in the meadows and each center of the seven dukes had such foundries.****
According to the second version Arthur’s sword was made by fairies and an arm emerging from the waters handed it to him; the sword’s return at the end of Arthur’s life followed the same pattern. This sword was called Excalibur. British scholarship originates this word from the Latin chalybs, meaning steel. This etymology is believed to be uncertain, which shows that the origin of the story, the names have not originated within the English culture sphere, even though it is very much a part of the thought process of the English people. Irish tradition calls the sword Caladbold, and this is the older version of the sword legend.
The Magyar kar, kard words are related to the cal syllable, but it is also related to the word hal which means to sink and to die. An arm lifts the sword out of the water and this arm sinks into the waters with the sword is expressed the following way in the Magyar language: “Kar emeli ki a kardot a vízből, s a kar a karddal a vízbe hal.” If we take the Magyar translation of Excalibur and equate the syllable cal with sinking, the bur syllable with castle we get the meaning of “from the sunken castle”. This translation becomes even more plausible when we take into consideration that the Magyar name of the Holy Grail’s original owner is Halász Király (Fisher King) who lived in a perpetual state of near-death (halál). The linguistic connection of this legend is easily understood based on the Magyar language.
In Denmark a great many swords were found buried into a watery grave. According to Magyar symbology the sword and its cover was a symbol of life as the water was too. A great word cluster relates to this idea.
*
The Holy Grail
Geoffrey Ashe, the dedicated researcher of the Arthurian legends believes that the Holy Grail is a summation of the male-female principle and symbols. At the base of Magyar consciousness is the knowledge of the interchangeability of energy and matter. This knowledge was built into their language and is also part of their symbology. The pure gold sun-cap of the ancient Magyar kings, as a cap when worn round side up on one’s head was considered a male symbol, which united heaven and earth into a creating unit. According to Magyar legends only a man, who was chosen by the Holy crown can become king. The last such king was Hollós Mátyás, Mathias Corvinus. Tradition holds that the Holy Crown just appeared on his head and in this way did it become apparent who should be King. Both the Hollós and the Corvinus cognomens and the Magyar names of the raven (holló) holding a ring (gyűrű) which appear on their family crest belong into the large K-R wordgroup as does the word grail. Matthias Corvinus Rex’s famous library and his Corvinae may have held great amounts of European early history. Pitifully they have become scattered by foreign invaders. The presence of ravens is greatly connected with the Arthurian legends and a still nurtured, living tradition in England.
When the cap is used as a cup, a vessel, hollow side up it becomes a symbol of femininity, which is able to contain, to enfold. Yet the cap and the cup are both essentially the same. The Magyar language expresses this concept of interchangeability of energy, which is considered the male principle of creation and matter, which is the female principle through the reciprocity of words. The Magyar bak (buck) is a male, its reciprocal form kupa (cup) is a female symbol along with the word kap (to receive). One also must note that the Magyar and English words are identical both in meaning and form. There are several hundred words identical between the Magyar and English language, which is the subject of a separate study. I will touch only upon the few words closely related to this present article.
The memory of the gold Magyar Sun-crown was handed down from ancient traditions. The object and its symbology originated in a time when only Magyars (the original meaning of this word is “human”) lived on this earth in a happy Golden Age. Later historical epochs handed down this symbol to many generations where these still live in their souls, language and traditions. When overpopulation of the Carpathian basin spilled over to the neighboring lands and new successive societies were formed this symbol still remained important in the mythology of Magyar peoples. Let us take a look what the Greek authors wrote...
Rest of the book:
http://www.acronet.net/~magyar/english/1997-3/GRAIL.htm