was supposed to be outta town today but I moved it up to tomorrow because a few things came up, one of which was this DVD arrived. I viewed it an hour ago and thought I'd lt everyone in on it. It's good stuff, and asks all the right questions.

911 in Plane Site

Available from:

http://www.thepowerhour.com/

Review by FranzJoseph

First off: If you care about the country formerly known as the United States, get this movie and spread it around. It’s not going to make any patriotic citizen happy – but if you want to wake them up, it’ll do much more than Michael Moore’s much more expensive production.

Second, 911 in Plane Site makes excellent use of the resources at:

http://letsroll911.org/

And letsroll911 is one of the few masterpiece website I know about, so it’s not a bad idea to give it some time anyway. Okay, to the nitty-gritty now.

The Main Point

This film takes a few points about 911, holds them under close scrutiny, invites you to make your own decision, and that’s it. Not sexy at all. The host, Dave VonKleist, is as low-key as it’s possible to be.

The first section presented simply and damningly is the Pentagon Hole. VonKleist goes down the list of what’s wrong. I’m happy to point out that VonKleist makes this part easy because a paper at The Power Hour website has the basic arguments

http://thepowerhour.com/911_analysis/report.htm

Anyone going through this page (which contains plenty of photos) is going to be fairly clear on the following fact: No passenger jet hit the Pentagon. While VonKleist uses the pictures and diagrams we’ve all come to expect, the main thing in the film that is more compelling is the simple stuff none of us had really thought about. Such as:

Photos showing the rooms in the outer ring blown open but in fairly good shape, nothing like might have happened if the jet fuel had blown (more on that in a second). In one photo we see a small desk with an open book on it, pages not even singed.

The film makes clear that if the plane would have blown up, these rumpled-but-surviving rooms and pieces of furniture would have been gone.

The subject of the plane’s fuel load enters here also, and VonKleist reads a letter from an environmental expert on the expected problems with plane coming down almost fully loaded. There would have been a massive toxic waste problem whether the plane had blown up or not.

Videos and pictures of the Pentagon show none of this. There are no parts of any airliner at all anywhere near the Pentagon. The explosion the aircraft would have made on crashing would have caused much more damage if the official story were true. And finally, the aviation gas would have created a contamination zone that would be quarantined to this day. None of that happened.

Just for debunking the Pentagon Hole, VonKleist earns his pay. But there’s more.


The Very Much Controversial Point

This is the part Big John Kaminski was worried about, and with good reason.

The website http://letsroll911.org/ got VonKleist’s attention in April of this year, about the time it got mine. In it, a theory about the airliners at the WTC is advanced that I thought was nearly insane. A few of the details:

• That one of the “airliners” hitting the WTC was not marked;
• It was carrying a pod or missile of some sort and,
• It apparently fired a missile or detonated an explosion a split second before it hit the WTC.

For obvious reasons this sort if thing has to be handled with great care. I’m happy to note that VonKleist does just that, but at the same time makes it clear that something is deeply wrong that America’s prestige media has not touched any of this.

The DVD (which is what I have) relegates some of the best stuff to its bonus section because the main section is about 52 minutes in length. VonKleist (probably tilting at windmills at this point) made it that length so a TV station could run it and have space for commercials in a one-hour format. Whatever, but there’s excellent stuff in the bonus section. Especially the possibility that Air Force tanker planes were the radio-guided into crashing into the WTC. Again, no matter how insane it sounds, this movie puts out all the facts that support the case and lets you make your mind up for yourself.

Overall

The film is straightforward. It makes use of the raw video footage of the crashes and photos of the aftermath at the Pentagon. Especially the latter are effective to the point that it’s really hard to imagine anyone shilling for the Official Story after seeing this.

VonKleist ends the Main Section asking when we, as Americans, are going to “draw our own line in the sand.” The first bonus section ends on a similar note, with VonKleist asking the police and military to come forth and if nothing else ask themselves who the real “domestic enemy” is.

Again, VonKleist handles this adroitly, so it doesn't come off as sedicious as it sounds. "We do not come with clenched fists" VonKleist says, and allows the soldier and police and even politicians who know the truth to start coming out with it.

Powerful stuff. On the basis of 911 America has fought two foreign wars and is gutting the American Constitution. Providing evidence that 911 as a “New Pearl Harbor” is as flawed as the original was might be just where the discussion should be heading right now.

I was impressed and intend to buy more copies for friends and family.

Sorry I missed your good review till now. Don't usually have to go this far down the forum to find something that twists my entrails.
How anyone could view this and still spout the official story is beyond me. You do not exaggerate when you say this documentary should be shown to anyone who will sit still for an hour. This goes a long way towards illustrating how far down the garden path we've been led. ALL MEDIA reports the phony in lock-step. Think they're telling us the truth about anything else?

You might like the following flash presentation.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pentagon.html

Anyone going through this page (which contains plenty of photos) is going to be fairly clear on the following fact: No passenger jet hit the Pentagon. While VonKleist uses the pictures and diagrams we?ve all come to expect, the main thing in the film that is more compelling is the simple stuff none of us had really thought about. Such as:


Typically it is human nature to want to believe conspiracy theories, but...

The airliner passed directly over my office building (about 5 miles from the Pentagon, 12th floor, glass ceiling) and was witnessed by an engineering team having a meeting there. I was out an account in Crystal City where the reception area has a wide view of Pentagon just across from 395. I asked the receptionist if she was working that day and she said she witnessed the whole thing.

Let's assume for a moment that I am making this up or that these witnesses or delusional. First it would be impossible for the government (ZOG, whatever) to plan and execute a hoax such as this. Second dozens of federal, state, and local agencies decended upon the Pentagon to investigate the crash scene. These agencies are made up of hundreds of people, are all them affiliated with ZOG?

Is the FAA and all the US airports in on this conspiracy? Think they might have an inkling where one of there airliners went to, if not into the Pentagon?

I'm a not a huge fan of the media, but wouldn't one maverick journalist want to make a name for himself by exposing this slight of hand?

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but get a grip.

Typically it is human nature to want to believe conspiracy theories, but...

The airliner passed directly over my office building (about 5 miles from the Pentagon, 12th floor, glass ceiling) and was witnessed by an engineering team having a meeting there. I was out an account in Crystal City where the reception area has a wide view of Pentagon just across from 395. I asked the receptionist if she was working that day and she said she witnessed the whole thing.

Let's assume for a moment that I am making this up or that these witnesses or delusional. First it would be impossible for the government (ZOG, whatever) to plan and execute a hoax such as this. Second dozens of federal, state, and local agencies decended upon the Pentagon to investigate the crash scene. These agencies are made up of hundreds of people, are all them affiliated with ZOG?

Is the FAA and all the US airports in on this conspiracy? Think they might have an inkling where one of there airliners went to, if not into the Pentagon?

I'm a not a huge fan of the media, but wouldn't one maverick journalist want to make a name for himself by exposing this slight of hand?

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but get a grip.

Do you live with your foot in your mouth?

http://www.american-bulldog.co.uk/OtherStuff/retard.gif

Bragi, while I agree that the doofus, possible jew-stooge, Crowe deserves it (deserves to have it slammed in his face); that picture is against the rules here, outlawed. Though it sometimes seems that such is the only justifiable answer to the 1500th stupid post from such an unteachable clown, spare us any more of that. You will irritate Demonica as well.

Now that was gross. That exceeds VNN's rules of etiquette. lol

Bragi, while I agree that the doofus, possible jew-stooge, Crowe deserves it (deserves to have it slammed in his face); that picture is against the rules here, outlawed. Though it sometimes seems that such is the only justifiable answer to the 1500th stupid post from such an unteachable clown, spare us any more of that. You will irritate Demonica as well.

Hmmm, Momus. Someone with a ounce of common sense and is at least partly in touch with reality would easily conclude that the airliners did indeed crash into the Pentagon and the Twin Towers, simply because it would be impossible for it to be fabricated.

And I'm a doofus? Riiiiiiiight.

Sometimes I disagree with Jim, but on the picture, he is right. Whoever can do it, please remove the vile picture, and don't do that again. Not ever.

Enkidu

I have nothing to discuss with you. If you desire someone of your mental caliber to garble and distort issues with then I suggest a certain Sean "Doc" Martin.



Hmmm, Momus. Someone with a ounce of common sense and is at least partly in touch with reality would easily conclude that the airliners did indeed crash into the Pentagon and the Twin Towers, simply because it would be impossible for it to be fabricated.

And I'm a doofus? Riiiiiiiight.

I have nothing to discuss with you. If you desire someone of your mental caliber to garble and distort issues with then I suggest a certain Sean "Doc" Martin.

If I were to speak to someone of my mental caliber I would have to be able to speak with God himself. ;)

I guess I'm flattered this old review was dug up.

But how did all those ??? (question marks) get in there? It wasn't like that when I posted it, honest.

Eyewitnesses and others: See the video. Seriously. I worked as a cop for part of my mispent youth and I know from experience that if five people witness a fender-bender in a parking lot, I had to write an accident report with five wildly differing points of view.

You might reappraise what you saw in light of what this video presents. It's that good.

And yeah, please remove that awful picture.

jim, you do understand how magicians use slight-of-hand, right? Several military exercises scheduled that day. Compartmentalization results in no one knowing enough to realize they were part of it. In your world talking to the secretary outweighs photographic proof? Sounds like you better get a grip.

jim, you do understand how magicians use slight-of-hand, right?

Yes, but I doubt even Gandalf the Grey would be able to pull off this "hoax".

As for your witnessed plane, Ron Reagan Airport is on the other side of the pent. Any plane your secretary saw could easily have been a cover. So lots of witnesses "see" a plane fly towards the pent. It proceeds over the pent., and lands at the airport. While a missile makes the actual strike.
Did you look at the movie or ANY of the images? THE PLANE, WHERE IS THE PLANE. ARE YOU SCARED TO BELIEVE YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO? Or are you being compensated to be a wet blanket?

That photo was put in by the website source, not me. I have edited it out. I would never put an image like that on this forum.

Again, that pic was replaced by the source website as punishment for using another photo of theirs.

Sorry.

Oh JC, just how difficult would it be to pull of such a hoax? What would it require? Let's see, a plane crash into the WTC, caught on film. Two demolished buildings (they do it all the time, except without the filmed plane crash). An explosion at the Pentagon. And total control by jews of the American media.

Is that really so far out? I mean who benefitted from 9-11? The jews and ZOG, both itching for a nice profitable war against the Muslim world.

You're under the delusion that 9-11 was complex. It was brutally simple and could have been easily executed by a few dozen conspirators.

9-11 was a TV show, nothing more.

Do some research and turn off the plastic jew, you boobus Americanus.

As for your witnessed plane, Ron Reagan Airport is on the other side of the pent. Any plane your secretary saw could easily have been a cover. So lots of witnesses "see" a plane fly towards the pent. It proceeds over the pent., and lands at the airport. While a missile makes the actual strike.
Did you look at the movie or ANY of the images? THE PLANE, WHERE IS THE PLANE. ARE YOU SCARED TO BELIEVE YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO? Or are you being compensated to be a wet blanket?

Most people by nature are compelled to believe in "conspiracy theories", rather than the obvious. I thought I saw news clips a few days after the crash of investigators going through plane debris in The Courtyard (center of Pentagon).

If someone were to tell me that it wasn't Arabs that hijacked the planes but they were mossoud agents, and I have this evidence to prove it. That would be much more believable than someone fabricating airliners flying into these structures.

It only takes contemplating the "hoax" scenerio from a few different angles to conclude that it would astronomically improbable for that to occur. One would have to believe that ZOG (loosely defined term) is a supernatural entity far beyond human scope.

[QUOTE=Jim Crowe]Most people by nature are compelled to believe in "conspiracy theories", rather than the obvious.
{QUOTE]


While conspiracy theories are much more interesting to some people, I believe that most people believe what they are told, and the belief in any conspiracy theory involves critical thought, and most people do not like to really have to think about anything. It is much easier for most people to just turn on the fox news or Cnn, and just let the TV think for them.

While conspiracy theories are much more interesting to some people, I believe that most people believe what they are told...

Unfortunately this seems to get more true every day. There's almost no market apart from the internet when it comes to alternatives to Fox News.

By curious coincidence, 911 in Plane Site spends some time discussing the very term "conspiracy theory." I recommend giving it a look. It's not a nut DVD, it's as stone sober as they come.

Take heed crowe, you're sure to learn more about your fascinating self.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."

---Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

You'd be in the second stage, Jimbo.

An excerpt from http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm appears below.

"...Taken individually, each story, quote and event may not amount to a full case. But when taken collectively, this mountain of facts should hammer home the truth to even the most skeptical reader. There are of course those who have fallen under the hypnotic spell of the TV talking-heads and "experts" whom they worship as authority figures. Unaccustomed to thinking for themselves, no amount of truth can sway them from their preconceived prejudices. They will even deny that which they see with their own eyes. They are victims of a psychological affliction known as "the lemming effect". Lemmings are small rodents who have been known to follow each other as they charge to their deaths into raging rivers or off of cliffs. Lemminghood is an innate psychological phenomenon, present in most mammals and observable in common people as well the most sophisticated and educated elites. Lemminghood is not an intellectual phenomenon - it is psychological. As such, no socio-economic class is immune to its strangulating effect. A grant- seeking university scientist can be a lemming just as much as a fashion obsessed teen-age girl. One blindly follows the latest trendy theory while the other blindly follows the latest trendy clothing style. What's the difference? Neither can resist the force of nature.

The power to fit in with one's social peers can be irresistible. To a human lemming, the logic behind an opinion doesn't count as much as the power and popularity behind an opinion. Man, like lemming, behaves collectively. And it could be no other way. Naturally, the individual must be equipped with this trait. Otherwise, the smallest steps toward civilization could never have been made. Lemminghood is a survival trait, an inborn instinct in the majority of people. However, as with all natural phenomena, this tendency can be manipulated and used for harmful purposes.
It is this lemming effect which enables entire segments of a society to lose their sense of judgment all at the same time. This research paper will likely be wasted on many lemmings. For lemmings, denial is a basic psychological defense mechanism used to not only shield themselves from unpleasant realities, but also to reassure themselves that they will still fit within the acceptable range of opinion held by their peer group. Lemmings are absolutely terrified at the thought of being labeled as an "extremist" or a "conspiracy theorist". At all costs, their beliefs must always be on the "right" side of the issue and conform within the boundaries of their lemming peers. Lemmings simply cannot bear the burden of responsibility, or the discomfort, which comes with thinking independently. They'll resist any efforts to change their misguided beliefs with all their mental energy. We can try to open their closed minds and free them from their self-imposed blindness, but it’s not easy fighting the force of human nature. The chains of ideological conformity have too strong of a grip, and breaking them is a difficult task. With the limited resources at our disposal, it is next to impossible to compete with the media lemming-masters. Nevertheless, some of us must make the meager attempt, and thus lay the foundation upon which the truth might one day rise again.

There are those among us who do have the courage and intellectual capacity to break free of the shackles of lemminghood and accept the truth when it is presented in a clear and logical sequence. To those open minded and independent thinkers I wish to state clearly and unequivocally. I intend to set forth in this paper an overwhelming body of evidence which should forever destroy the notion that a Saudi Arabian caveman and his band of half-trained, nerdy Arab flight school attendees, orchestrated the most sophisticated terror operation in world history. The idea is utterly laughable. And yet, due to the blithering barrage of bullshit dished out by the government/media complex, "patriotic" Americans have accepted this ridiculous fairy tale with a religious conviction. As a public service to my fellow Americans, I have published the results of my research in the hopes of liberating as many people as I can from the oppressive yoke of media brainwashing and state sponsored lies. Do you have what it takes to break free? If so, read on!

You got some 'splaining to do! Where do all these wackos come from Crowe? I just googled "9-11 conspiracy" and 428,000 kooky conspiracy links were found. All that crazy talk. Put an end to it Jimbo with tall tales of how you maybe saw a Boeing 757 fly over the building where you worked. You just said you witnessed the plane fly over, well, tell us how you felt. I mean, you were there dude! You saw it just like jewmedia tells it. Dazzle us! I mean the mass delusions are amazing aren't they?

Behold the power of the internet, err, I mean the TV. Able to dictate the truth without a shred of the proof. Wow!

How about a show of hands? Who's seen it? Anybody who's seen it, and thinks it is baloney? Everybody I've shown it to mentioned some point during the viewing where they had seen or heard something that convinced them the official story is crap. I have obviously seen it, and my moment is seeing the pent. collapsing. Recorded live by a major news outlet. No plane or parts in sight.

Whirlwind,

My hand is up. I saw what you saw.

Did you see the OKC footage in the "Epilogue"?

Yup. That whole business was buried before I probably read the first news account of OK-BOMB. I was pretty astonished because no matter what I already know about it, seeing the actual evidence of a cover up on that level just knocked me out.

You got some 'splaining to do! Where do all these wackos come from Crowe? I just googled "9-11 conspiracy" and 428,000 kooky conspiracy links were found. All that crazy talk. Put an end to it Jimbo with tall tales of how you maybe saw a Boeing 757 fly over the building where you worked. You just said you witnessed the plane fly over, well, tell us how you felt. I mean, you were there dude! You saw it just like jewmedia tells it. Dazzle us! I mean the mass delusions are amazing aren't they?

Behold the power of the internet, err, I mean the TV. Able to dictate the truth without a shred of the proof. Wow!

I didn't witness anything. I was in Chantilly (about 25 miles) from the Pentagon when the plane struck.

It's one thing to think that the Jews are a controlling element in the media and government, but another to think they control the government entirely or able to manufacture an event such as this. It's just not possible.

I didn't witness anything. I was in Chantilly (about 25 miles) from the Pentagon when the plane struck.

It's one thing to think that the Jews are a controlling element in the media and government, but another to think they control the government entirely or able to manufacture an event such as this. It's just not possible.
You know Bragi, the jack Nicholson avatar suited you to a tee. I can see your response to this one and envisioning Jack comes naturally with your style.

Don’t pull your hair out while playing the part now.

GEEZZZZZZZZZ

If a plane hit the Pentagon then it was already on the ground before it struck. It doesn't take Rocket Science to figure that out. I'm not ragging on anyone here I'm just saying that it is impossibe.
I worked for an Airline for several years and although I wasn't a Pilot (thank God :p ) I did have training involving Plane Crash's.
Just take a good look at the Pentagon. Then think about how Planes crash.
It doesn't take long to know that a plane could not have hit the building the way they are claiming that it did on the side of the building. Not to mention all the folks that were there that said they never saw a plane.

Question: If commercial airliners didn't hit the Pentagaon or the twin towers, what happened to those flights?

Apparently the FAA, the entire United States airports and airline companies, along with all the passengers that perished, are part of this hoax.

...along with all the passengers that perished, are part of this hoax.

Jim, this is nonsense and you know it. Play fair. The passengers are dead, and they may not have died at the Pentagon. It scares me cold to speculate where and how they did die.

My copy is coming. The charge just hit my credit card this morning, so I may have it Saturday.

Enkidu

Passengers were all identified by DNA analysis. In other words, they had a sample of everyone. Imagine what has become of those passengers. They are certainly dead. My guess: gassed in flight, sampled, cremated. Plane returned to service with new ID from FAA.

I had posted this in another thread or two, or maybe even this one.

It's just a little flash movie about events at the Pentagon. Free and available after a brief download.

Link below.

What Really Happened at the Pentagon. (http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html)

As for Jimbo, I've got him on ignore and that's where he'll stay for me, but it's plain to see from those who quote him that he is a willing dupe who lives on auto-pilot. Jewish media owns Crowe along with their mass media who trained him. I can see him now, sitting on the Rabbi's lap as the Rabbi mutters a fantastic tale while flipping the pages in the 9-11 picture book.

There is no way we can find out what really happened to the passengers unless we topple the government or bring charges against the Executive Branch and the DoD, force them to disclose everything related to this issue.

Serious speculation should start with this in mind: American government and military has used us as guinea pigs starting in 1950 when they sprayed viral agents on the unsuspecting citizens of San Francisco. They've fought illegal wars and they've poisoned troops and then lied about that too.

I know the "official story" of 911 is a hoax. What really happened? Still coming out, being hashed out by good people and bad. We're all blind men describing the elephant.

One thing I know: A few airliners full of civilians getting killed is peanuts given our government's behavior over the last fifty years. Add to that: Even the National Security system has now been hijacked, all or in part, by an alien zionist cabal that has no scruples about killing innocents to further its cause.

What happened to the planes? We'll never know if we cannot establish, in the broad public's mind, that the official story is not true.

Once investigations and impeachments are underway, I'm sure all the details about what happened to the innocent passengers will come out.

There is no way we can find out what really happened to the passengers unless we topple the government or bring charges against the Executive Branch and the DoD, force them to disclose everything related to this issue.

Serious speculation should start with this in mind: American government and military has used us as guinea pigs starting in 1950 when they sprayed viral agents on the unsuspecting citizens of San Francisco. They've fought illegal wars and they've poisoned troops and then lied about that too.

I know the "official story" of 911 is a hoax. What really happened? Still coming out, being hashed out by good people and bad. We're all blind men describing the elephant.

One thing I know: A few airliners full of civilians getting killed is peanuts given our government's behavior over the last fifty years. Add to that: Even the National Security system has now been hijacked, all or in part, by an alien zionist cabal that has no scruples about killing innocents to further its cause.

Ohh comon...Franz! Are you trying to tell me that our government wouldn't harm American citizens? Haven't you ever hear of Waco and Ruby Ridge?

Ohh wait, nevermind! That wasn't a good example. How about Tim McViegh and the Murrah building? Surley you must know that the powers of ZOG could apprehend Timmy within 30 minutes of the crime just like those 19 Arab teenage terrorists that have the uncanny ability to fly jumbo jets into tall buildings in a single bound with only a few hours of flight training all the while dodging F-16's that never appeared over the most protected flight space in the world!!!

What is your problem, Franz!!!! Do logic and common sense elude you?

As for Jimbo, I've got him on ignore and that's where he'll stay for me, but it's plain to see from those who quote him that he is a willing dupe who lives on auto-pilot. Jewish media owns Crowe along with their mass media who trained him. I can see him now, sitting on the Rabbi's lap as the Rabbi mutters a fantastic tale while flipping the pages in the 9-11 picture book.

There is quite a bit I don't believe from the mainstream media, or at least their slant of things. But that doesn't mean one should start believing this nonsense.

What is so bizarre about believing the most likely scenario of Muslim extremists striking out at the West? What is the motivation in believing some nonsensical "grand scheme"?

Nonsensical grand scheme? You mean the story about arab hijackers with box cutters? Who struck WTC because it was a symbol of our freedom?
How about an example of mainstream news you don't believe.

It is a complete waste of time responding to Crowe. He has been that way since he showed up here and has shown no sign of change.
When the subject is sorry niggers or pretty gals he makes a little more sense.

Nonsensical grand scheme? You mean the story about arab hijackers with box cutters? Who struck WTC because it was a symbol of our freedom?
How about an example of mainstream news you don't believe.

This site sometimes exceeds its bandwidth, but when it's up check it out:


http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/pentagon/video.html


Not only did the government seize and censor private videos of the Pentagon attack, it censored the DoD security videos from the Pentagon itself. The frames of the "plane crash" are out of sequence and dated wrong.

There don't have to be a grand conspiracy if citizens are not doing their jobs. Questions were raised to begin with. Why were legitimate investigators brushed off?

Remember too that the truth about the sinking of the USS Maine and Pearl Harbor were kept from the public for a generation or so simply because the government classifies things it don't want taxpayers to know. This has happened before. I'm not willing to wait 40 years for the truth to come out, that's all.

A.E., have you seen a copy of this movie? Your word seems to carry alot of weight around here. Please view a copy and let us all know what you think.

Excellent rundown on the Pentagon hit:


http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian/Pentagon/what-hit-it.htm

Nuts! Bandwidth exceeded again. Everytime I try to view it. Must be alot of people at least curious enough to look.
Here is a video that highlights gov't. lying, murder, corruption, and the media's willingness to be their spokesmen for it all. If this doesn't start a fire in the minds that are here, I don't have much hope for humanity.
Closest thing to a smoking gun we're likely to get. But let's talk about movies made from video games, instead. Its all about the bread and circuses to way too many cretins. WAKE UP, SLAVES!

OK, gentle persuasion is not working. Anyone who has not viewed a copy, DO IT NOW!
The U.S. gov't. is illegitimate at best. Here is a tool to help you explain that to the less informed. If you can't understand how important this is, just do everyone a favor and join the cul-de-sac birchers now and get it over with. If you SERIOUSLY want to change the course of this country, you've got to use all tools available to you.
The current gov't. is anti-White. Do you need another reason?

"I don't want to be confused with all those crazy conspiracy theorists."
Can't you tell zog has so-named that group to prevent people from listening to their message? Seeing a pattern?

It's a fact, gang. You're not going to get a better crowbar to pry the lemmings off their asses.

We have here what the lawyers would call compelling circumstantial evidence that the government lied, covered up their lies, committed or colluded in mass murder on American soil. That's just for starters.

And if you got family and friends that are total dittoheads, there's hope. Three people I know have seen it and started their journey to independent thinking.

Think of it as a tool that works.

Finally got a look at the page you suggested, Franz Joseph. Some good anaysis there. Is it my imagination, or did the movie sub-forum get a lot more active since the beginning of this thread?

Seems like it did. Stuff used to sit here weeks at a time.:)

Here's a good 911 thread on another forum:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread73092/pg1

Below is part if the post that caught my eye. (ATS forum is worth a look. I joined but rarely post, I think it's the advertising in the threads that bug me. But there's some bright people there sometimes.)

This is not Isramerica, or Jewmerica

My perspective at this time goes like this, 9-11 was “Tonkin Bay 2001” and it was extremely successful. Now we have to “DEAL WITH IT”.

9-11 was a conspiracy that continues within America. The actors that conspired to stage the event are criminals, pure and simple. The list of crimes they committed will be large, as will the number of individuals that will be caught and prosecuted for these crimes. I tend to disagree with the assumption that this has to be a massive conspiracy; I think we may find that a relative small number of persons actually working for the government, and others working within the government were actually involved in the prosecution of the traitorous deed itself. The conspirators that planned the 9-11 events are more than likely outside the criminals that originated the ideal of using an event of such magnitude to change history and lead our country on the courses we now travel. The number of individuals needed to accomplish the act is directly related to the power of the persons involved. I also tend to lean heavily toward involvement by Israelis.

We do not need to wait 5-10-25-50 years to know the traitorous criminals that were involved in 9-11. (Northwoods 40 years)

The ideologies that contemplated and carried out the criminal acts on 9-11 are a very real (Level Bright Red) threat to our country. Think about it; they committed what they thought were perfect crimes, escaping unknown and untouched. Now the depth and breath of their crimes are being exposed and they have nowhere to hide. The repercussions from the truth about 9-11 may be far reaching and with amazing changes in the relationships we now have with Israel.

I believe that the time has come for the American people to demand that the relationships, between the United States, Israel and certain Israeli groups be reviewed immediately. Israel and certain Israeli groups will always put the interest of Israel and their own ideologies ahead of any thought of America or the rest of the world.

“WE, THE JEWISH PEOPLE, CONTROL AMERICA, AND THE
AMERICANS KNOW IT.” Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon October 3, 2001
(IAP NEWS)

I do not think for a moment that certain groups of Israelis would hesitate in killing 3000 Americans, or 300,000 Americans, or 3,000,000 Americans if they thought the results would benefit their vision of Israel and the rest of the world. I do not for a moment think that certain Americans (powerful people, families, and corporations,) would hesitate in killing 3000 Americans, or 300,000 Americans, or 3,000,000 Americans if the results would benefit their visions of themselves and the rest of the world.

Israel is somewhat like a child which has benefited from 50 plus years of leniency, and protection from an over zealous mother (USA) who would not listen to any sort of criticism whatsoever of her lovely child. Now the child has become a sociopathic serial mass murderer. Whatever relations we have from this point on with the State of Israel and certain related Israeli groups cannot continue to proceed as is, by outdated agreements and arrangements that blind us to the evil in the child. This is not Isramerica, or Jewmerica. This is the “United States of America” and even with all its warts and blemishes it is ours, not theirs. Our treasury and military are not supported by the citizens to be used or abused by any other county regardless of who they are. We cannot lose our democracy and solvency because of our subservience to any country or ideologies.

We have to assume the role of leadership. You know the saying,”Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way”. We have to lead, we cannot follow, and we are too big and bad to get the hell out of the way. When I say bad, I do mean bad, we have the ability and the means to defeat any foe or foes on this planet. It is a given that we are by far the most potentially dangerous nation that has ever existed. How, we manage this massive power will probably decide the fate of this world. The enormity of American power is almost inconceivable, capable of turning the planet into a lifeless hunk of space debris.

It makes no “difference” to history if the United States of America becomes a failed experiment in “Democracy”, but it damn well “matters” to history. This “Country’ was not built on the backs of our many millions of ancestors, mostly decent, hard working, and honest people, to be given away to any peoples, cults, political parties, or other country, so they could fund themselves, their friends (conspirators), and their ideologies as some kind elixir for World Government.

George Bush, "He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Groucho Marx

Have you seen the documentary yet A.E.? Jim Crowe, J.P.S.? If you follow the posts at the Above Top Secret site posted by Franz Joseph, you'll find a way for the computer savvy to view it free.

Here's how it is guys:

If NO PLANE hit the Pentagon, how is it the AUTOPSY performed by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, (AFIP) identified each person ON THE PLANE and that the compiled list of names corresponds precisely with the list of PASSENGERS who BOARDED Flt77 provided by the Airline?

C'mon Sherlocks, figure that one out!

Oh, and one more small thing:

The FBI said that Aircraft had crazed, suicidal Arabs on board.

The AFIP people found all the passengers, but NOT A SINGLE ARAB.

No Arabs on the mortuary slab folks.

So Sherlocks, who flew the Plane into the Pentagon, a crazed Stewardess?

The Arabs had Parachutes?

The Cassiopaeans have taken a whole shower of shit for running the Pentagon flash player. If you haven't seen it yet it's here:

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/pentagon.htm

Anyway their daily Signs of the Times page carried lots of the "critics response" and they decided to reply. Part of their response is below, but go to the link for some real lemming reading. They'd rather keep their illusions than admit we got mass murdering loonies running the country.

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/signs20041008.htm

...When confronted with a mountain of evidence that strongly suggests U.S. government complicity in the Sept. 11th attacks, they choose to remain in denial, and instead resort to name-calling, insults and ridicule.

They attack our intelligence with words like moron, idiot, dolt, birdbrain, dope and knucklehead.

They attack our sanity with phrases like nutjob, fruitcake, crackpot, psychotic, delusional, brainwashed, half-baked, whackjob, fools, mania, kooks, and lunacy, needing to be drugged with Haldol and locked up in an asylum.

They attack in every way they can, calling us insecure, weird, ridiculous, goofballs who should be ashamed of ourselves.

(And if you think the above is harsh, take a look at the Signs Forum, to see what kind of feedback we are getting.)

And what is our crime? What did we do to provoke such hostility?

We started asking questions.

Why?

Because we are interested in the truth.

We decided to take a hard and honest look at the most significant tragedy of our era. From the very beginning, the "official version" of events just didn't add up, and upon closer inspection, is now clearly shown to be full of holes.

After doing a great deal of research, we came to some surprising, but highly probable conclusions, as to who was the real mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks.

All objective evidence indicates that it was an inside job.

On September 11th, 2001, elements within the American goverment murdered or were complicit in the murder, of 3000 of it's own citizens.

It is this reality that most people are deathly afraid to consider.

And because we even dare to suggest it as a possibility, we are attacked and ridiculed.

It is likely that some of the negative responses come from agents or deliberate disinformation artists.

However, there are still those people who are genuinely offended by the work we have done, because it challenges everything they hold dear.

Following the exposure the Washington Post story will bring, we may expect even more attacks like those above in the days to come.

So the question remains, what is it that makes certain people react in such negative and hostile ways to the simple voicing of a different opinion?

What is it about 9/11 in particular that makes normally intelligent and reasonable adults cringe with horror at the mere suggestion that their own government would pull off such a dastardly crime?

In a word... investment.

When one is so deeply invested into a belief or idea, so much so that their entire being is intertwined and dependant upon the "absolute truth" of that idea, then any evidence that contradicts their cherished belief system is met with intense anger and hosility.

Such people, having no outlet for the cognitive dissonance that the objective facts create, must attack those who present the evidence.

In essence, it is their way of trying to shoot the messenger.

Somehow, they hope that by shooting the messenger, the message will be killed as well.

Unfortunately for them, the truth never does go away, and if ignored long enough, has a tendancy to come roaring back in chaotic and unexpected ways.

Their condition is understandable, for many of us here had similar doubts and went through the same trauma when we first came across this information.

Being an American, it's not an easy thing to hear that the country you've grown up in, the country you've been taught since birth is open, democratic and free; would ruthlessly kill it's own people to further a selfish and sinister agenda.

When presented with the facts, one can either flee from the harsh reality they present and retreat into the comfort of belief, lies and illusion, or instead one can acknowledge the truth without flinching. One can stare into the face of uncertainty, dive into the unknown, and let go of literally everything that we've been conditioned to believe to be true.

It's all about choice.

The truth hurts.

The realization is life-shattering.

Once you SEE the terror of the situation, there is no going back.

Follow the links.

Do the research.

Come to your own conclusions.

The light is shining on the door... it is up to you to walk through it.

If NO PLANE hit the Pentagon, how is it the AUTOPSY performed by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, (AFIP) identified each person ON THE PLANE and that the compiled list of names corresponds precisely with the list of PASSENGERS who BOARDED Flt77 provided by the Airline?


No one doubts that Flight 77 went down somewhere. Bodies were recovered and identified. Had nothing to do with whatever happened at the Pentagon as no photo -- none -- shows the bodies that would have been strewn all over the yard had a passenger plane hit and disintigrated as per official story.

The flash presentation in my above post may help too.

Just ask yourself who the AFIP works for. And they were simply given bodies to autopsy, bodies that very well might have come from a passenger jet that was destroyed to help create a cover story.

Another good Pentagon resource:

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr68.html

Lots of pics. Good analysis.

What made that neat exit hole in the C ring? Anything making that clean of a hole I'd expect to continue forward. Where is the physical mass that penetrated that wall? Not seen in photos. Could the hole be from something besides a physical impact, like a focused beam weapon? That hole is so nearly round, it stretches the imagination to consider it the exit hole of a mass that has already been deformed by impacting several reinforced concrete walls. Anything with enough velocity at that point to create a clean hole, would surely have continued into the next ring. It didn't, and yet whatever did make the hole is not laying around looking obvious. I would love to have been friends with one of those fire-fighters before the attack. Maybe they could tell me what they saw while they were there.
Thanks for that link, Franz Joseph.

Just ask yourself who the AFIP works for. And they were simply given bodies to autopsy, bodies that very well might have come from a passenger jet that was destroyed to help create a cover story.

Yes, AFIP is US Govt. But hang on a minute, if they were 'in on it' surely it would have been simplicity itself for them to include Arab names on the list of dead from Flt77.

I suspect AFIP was not 'in' and they merely carried out their gruesome autopsy of those on Flt77 and that there were NO ARABS on ANY of the 911 planes.

The 911 conspiracy made mistakes, lots of them and this is just one. My own view remains that 911 began as an insurance scam which turned into something far more sinister as other people became involved. If we were serious about finding out what happened a good start might be getting hold of Larry Silverstein and pulling his fingernails out until he comes clean.

Just by coincidence, Signs of the Times ran a few emails about the Pentagon plane today.


http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/signs20050107.htm


Now, let us look at another email we want to share today. This email comes from the U.S., from an employee at Boeing, and we have removed the specific identifiers for the safety of the individual.

Greetings, I have stayed out of this arena for a reason, but can no longer. I am a ********** here in the 747 assembly plant in ********* where we build these great aircraft. 747's-767's and 777's.

Lets do some math for a minute, because for those who believe a 757 hit the pentagon, must also believe in the tooth fairy. The melting temp for brake shoes on a 757 is about 3000 degs. The landing gear struts are solid cast aluminum, the center shafts for the engines, are solid titanium. The flame temp for low grade kerosene, (jet fuel)is around 800 degs.

If the 757 was full of fuel, thats 14 pounds of aircraft per one gallon of fuel.

It's it impossible to "completely incinerate" a 757 at that fuel to material ratio. It would be the first time in history it did, and would defy the laws of physics, period.

No 757 hit the pentagon. Where's the engines, landing gears, APU's, stringers, fuel cell walls, wing joint assemblies? These are impervious to fire, and, all have survived the worst fires ever seen on aricraft, and I've seen them all.

Oh by the way, if the 757 was "completely incinerated" as the gov't would have the lemming masses believe, how did they come up with DNA from the ashes for every passenger on board. DNA from ASHES!!!?? what a crock of shit.

Once you do the math, you'll quickly know, that no 757 hit that building, those who say one did, are liars, or have been told to be liars lest they end up like Vince Foster and a few hundred others like him. Get it ????!!!!

Here is another from which we have removed the identifiers for the safety of our correspondent:

I have personally been scouring the info both of what the government has released and what people have on sites such as the one you have. I am Probably one of the most qualified people that you will meet to judge some of the info that people claim. I have served in the U.S. Army for a number of years now, I've not only dealt with weapons of every type you can imagine, I have also had a great deal of experience with aircraft, not to mention my wife is a ________ analyst for the military who deals with a great many [related] things.

First off, I can guarantee that no missile did this, none of the patterns add up for such a thing to work, damage ratio is wrong, flight path is wrong, style of impact is wrong. Also think of the item it was hitting, a hardened building made of concrete and steel, all reinforced.

Also i can tell you no large aircraft [Boeing 757] did this, as it was pointed out there was no tail, wings or any large Darbee left over.

I would still rule small aircraft out for many of the same reasons!

If this was a flying object then it was of very questionable origins.

Just by what was said by flight controllers, i can tell you it was not a missile nor a large aircraft, none would be that maneuverable, missiles that hit land targets aren't maneuverable by design, they don't need to be, they fly on mostly a straight course till impact, never hitting in the style as we have seen here, but a large aircraft doesn't posses the maneuverability to fly in this way either.

I doubt it was a military aircraft due to the fact that they would not use a multi- illion dollar aircraft nor a pilot that cost millions to train and risk someone being told of such a thing; not to mention when a pilot fails to come home someone notices, when a plane doesn't land someone notices.

To tell you the truth, by the extent of the damage and the way it looks, it was done with an internal explosive, nothing so random as standard high explosives. It would seem more of a cutting charge, but then again someone would notice something like that.

As for the eye witnesses saying they thought they heard a missile, how many people really know what a missile sounds like? I can guarantee you it's not that many. Most ppl imagine it sounding like what they see in the movies, you know that whoosh sound just like what was described. Well anyone who has ever heard a missile in real life can tell you they don't go whoosh at all, they don't squeal either, the sound from them isn't high pitched, its actually closer to a mid to low ranged rumble. They sound a great deal like a rocket used to get items to space. They also make a lot of noise when launched.

The evidence in this case I can tell you is odd.

Even if i knew what type of weapon could do this, chances are I couldn't say it to you. I do however have the ability to gain more inside info on this then most people...

Well I don't feel like going on with this email for much longer, I do however wish you the best of luck in finding out what you can and maybe getting what happened out to all of us.

I may be in the military but I am a realist. I looked at some of the facts and like you I am not buying the story we were told. [...]...