From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 02:08:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA01843; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 02:07:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 02:07:57 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 10:07:18 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Plasmoids and GDP. X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pU40h.0.hS.zlElu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14050 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, Jean-Louis talks about a plasmoid reactor being a crucial part of a propulsive GDP craft. GDP is electrical - is the plasmoid for power generation, or some other purpose? It's very spectacular, but what does Plasmoid plasma do for Glow Discharge Plasma? James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 03:30:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA15526; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 03:30:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 03:30:14 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <67.1f500a2.25ee5924@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 06:29:40 EST Subject: Re: Plasmoids and GDP. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: finalheaven@angelfire.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"yv5xm3.0.Vo3.6zFlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14051 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Dear All, > > Jean-Louis talks about a plasmoid reactor being a crucial part of a > propulsive GDP craft. GDP is electrical - is the plasmoid for power > generation, or some other purpose? > > It's very spectacular, but what does Plasmoid plasma do for Glow Discharge > Plasma? > > James O. Batchelor Hi James, The Plasmoid is a great source of ions, and the ions are the main source for an EAD thruster. Imagine the principle of an EAD Thruster ( the EHD Reactor showed in my ARDA Morningstar aircraft ) : A plasmoid is generated by a microwave source ( like the basic plasmoid experiment ) is produced at the entrance of the reactor, the ions of this plasmoid are accellerated at high speed with an Active GDP inside the reactor. This is the main principle of an EAD Thruster. The microwaves transform the fluid ( the Air for instance ) into the main fuel used for the thruster, no kerozene is required... If you use this principle in a saucer shaped craft, the plasmoid is generated inside and in the middle of the craft, a simple turbine is used to activate the plasmoid ciculation around the craft between the top and the bottom of the saucer, all the surface of the saucer is covered by an Active GDP skin, so, all the ship is a full EAD reactor in the fluid and the Plasmoid flow at a very very high speed along all the surface of the saucer shaped craft from the top to the bottom and the lifting thrust is produced by the Coanda effect...( this is now a so-called UFO )....with its wonderfull characteriscs like high speed acceleration, no moving part, EM scattering ( radars invisibility )... Think a bit about this..... Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 05:34:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA10546; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 05:33:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 05:33:40 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Extra-Galactic Travel Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:32:50 -0500 Message-ID: <002901bf8382$a3bb6e20$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"sJvX7.0.da2.pmHlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14052 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry Robin, My mistake. That means a nanopound (1E-9 pound). Now you are getting into the impurity level of the metal alloy technology (which will probably prevent zero mass obtainability). Does not sound very practical. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 12:23 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Extra-Galactic Travel On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:55:32 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: [snip] >0.9999999992c. From the craft frame of reference, time to transverse the 100 >light year galaxy distance is 8 days plus the time needed to accelerate to >the starting velocity. [snip] I'm not quite sure what you mean by "galaxy distance", but our galaxy is 100000 lt.years across, not 100. OTOH, there are quite a few stars within 100 lt. years of earth. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 06:13:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA21530; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 06:12:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 06:12:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: UFO Radiation and Cold Plasma Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:11:32 -0500 Message-ID: <002c01bf8388$0bfa7ee0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"CE8fn3.0.4G5.HLIlu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14053 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, It is not clear to me either. As I stated before I have no experience designing inter-stellar star ship control systems. I calculated force as follows: nitrogen atom mass = 2.34E-26 kgm g = 32 ft/sec^2 weight = 10 tons = 20000 pounds a = F/m = (20000lbs * 32ft/sec^2 * 0.454kgm/lbs * 12in/ft * 2.54 cm/in) / (2.34e-26 kgm * 100 cm/m) = 3.78E+30 m/sec^2 Another way is to calculate the number of atoms for a given depth under the disk and divide into the disk weight giving fractional weight per atom. Disk area = pi*r^2 = 6.57E+1 m^2 Density of air = rho = 1.2E+3 gm/m^3 Distance under craft = 0.1 m Avogadro's number = Av = 6.02E+23 atoms/gm #atoms = Av*rho*area*depth = 4.74E+27 force per atom = 10tons/#atoms = 4.22E-24 lbs/atom acceleration = 8.08E+5 m/sec^2 time needed for ionization velocity = 1.77E-1 sec distance needed for ionization = 1.27E+4 m Obviously no ionization will occur due to a high probability of a collision before the required velocity is reached reducing kinetic energy (velocity). You tell me how to do it. Best- Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 11:23 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UFO Radiation and Cold Plasma > >A 10 ton weight will exert a force on a nitrogen atom resulting in an >acceleration (a = F/m) of 3.78E+30m/sec^2. This isn't clear to me. Perhaps you could show how this number is derived? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 06:27:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29041; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 06:27:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 06:27:36 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: UFO Noise and Jitter Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:26:51 -0500 Message-ID: <002f01bf838a$2f5d1c60$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000101bf834e$ba2d9360$72ecffcc@default> Resent-Message-ID: <"AD7IX2.0.C57.LZIlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14054 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter, Sorry about the name error; the internet is truly anarchy in its purest form. I am trying to suggest ideas and am not married to any theory. Recently I worked with J. Bayles trying to advance his standing wave theory (see UFO Build at http://www.electrogravity.com/index.html). Jerry feels a standing wave craft emulating an electron is capable of quantum displacement jumps. DeAquino and I disagree on two issues of his theory. He feels inductance should be minimized and I think inductance is what slows phase velocity (di * dt). In addition, he multiplies EM attenuation by the shield atom's cross section area. I think attenuation should be divided by the number of atoms per square meter yielding attenuation per atom (linear approximation to an exponential). Unfortunately, my approach gives a much smaller absorption cross section requiring a higher radiated power density. To compensate for this, I chose to work at lower frequencies. This reduces required current considerably. DeAquino chose the power line 60Hz for convenience requiring currents >400A for negative mass. Calculations for my coil yields negative mass at 31A. Best- Steve -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fred [mailto:pbfred@iglou.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 2:21 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: UFO Noise and Jitter Steve, First of all so that things to not get out of hand let me say thatn my first name is Peter and my last name is Fred. Thank you for the reference of Donoghue and Holstein. I have looked and some the papers in the vault of forcefieldpropulsionphysics for references of DeAquino's work. Am I right in assuming you are attempting to achieve an antigravity effect by using ideas given in this vault. Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 07:11:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11632; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 07:10:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 07:10:40 -0800 From: "Peter Fred" To: Subject: RE: The search for neutrinos ? Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 10:06:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000101bf838f$b0678700$a3efffcc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <38BBD06E.17D67DBC@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"X9bYe2.0.fr2.lBJlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14055 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jack Smith wrote: "What little presentation of the Super-K data I could find on the web was very amusing: They plotted "hits" against the cosine of the angle on the celestial sphere with the Sun at 0 degrees. Not surprisingly, they obtained a spike at 0 degrees. I did a rough graphical analysis of the same data without the cosine transformation, and found no spike. You know tbe classic line: "Liars, Damned Liars..."" I have a possible solution to the solar neutrino problem by considering that big G is underestimated by a whole number of 2. If this is so, then the mass of the Sun (and the Earth) can be halfed. It then can be furthered argued that halving Sun's mass would raise the overall observed to detected ratio for all five detectors from 0.493 to 0.986. I have calculations that the horizontal component of the little ball is in one case 92 % and in another 87 % of the actual force measured in a Cavendish balance experiment where big G is determined. Thus I have some experimental justification for my position that G is underestimated by 2. For more details see: http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/halfthemass.htm and http://members.iglou.com/nfred/Ordered.htm Any comments Peter Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 07:28:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA18676; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 07:28:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 07:28:31 -0800 From: "Peter Fred" To: Subject: RE: UFO Noise and Jitter Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 10:24:04 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf8392$2e574b80$a3efffcc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002f01bf838a$2f5d1c60$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"ce0PB.0.jZ4.USJlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14056 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve Thank you for your reply. But what I want to know who got this 63 % loss weight as described in your forcefield propulsion posting. "The whole device weights about 35 kg and when applying 60 Hz @ 300 A to the antenna, the device looses about 22.1 kg !" This is an incredible weight loss. Did you or DeAquino acheive this result? Regards Peter Fred Peter, Sorry about the name error; the internet is truly anarchy in its purest form. I am trying to suggest ideas and am not married to any theory. Recently I worked with J. Bayles trying to advance his standing wave theory (see UFO Build at http://www.electrogravity.com/index.html). Jerry feels a standing wave craft emulating an electron is capable of quantum displacement jumps. DeAquino and I disagree on two issues of his theory. He feels inductance should be minimized and I think inductance is what slows phase velocity (di * dt). In addition, he multiplies EM attenuation by the shield atom's cross section area. I think attenuation should be divided by the number of atoms per square meter yielding attenuation per atom (linear approximation to an exponential). Unfortunately, my approach gives a much smaller absorption cross section requiring a higher radiated power density. To compensate for this, I chose to work at lower frequencies. This reduces required current considerably. DeAquino chose the power line 60Hz for convenience requiring currents >400A for negative mass. Calculations for my coil yields negative mass at 31A. Best- Steve -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fred [mailto:pbfred@iglou.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 2:21 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: UFO Noise and Jitter Steve, First of all so that things to not get out of hand let me say thatn my first name is Peter and my last name is Fred. Thank you for the reference of Donoghue and Holstein. I have looked and some the papers in the vault of forcefieldpropulsionphysics for references of DeAquino's work. Am I right in assuming you are attempting to achieve an antigravity effect by using ideas given in this vault. Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 07:45:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25119; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 07:44:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 07:44:48 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: DeAquino Correspondence Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 10:43:57 -0500 Message-ID: <003501bf8394$f50112f0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000001bf8392$2e574b80$a3efffcc@default> Resent-Message-ID: <"Vx9tZ1.0.O86.lhJlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14057 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: But what I want to know who got this 63 % loss weight as described in your forcefield propulsion posting. Fred, DeAquino acheived the result at his university in Brazil: Steve, Today January 27 , 2000 at 10:15 o'clock AM ( local time )the system-G worked. Practical problems are over at least.The apparatus worked well and the obtained experimental results confirmed my theoretical predictions. Fran De Aquino Fran, Does this mean you obtained significant weight reduction? Steve Yes! The weight nullified, and after inverted.All according my mg equation. Fran, I predict you will receive the Nobel prize faster than the high temperature superconductor guys. Congratulations and please keep me posted. Steve Thanks Steve. This experimental results are the conclusion of the research which I began 25 years ago.I am very , very happy.The experiment showed another important gravitational phenomenon ; when the total gravitational mass of the annealed iron was nullified, we verify the GRAVITATIONAL SHIELDING phenomenon . At this moment disappears the weight of everything that is inside of the annealed iron tube ( i.e., iron powder, antenna, etc.), the scale just indicates the weight of the steel tube which involves the one of annealed iron. Fran Fran, I believed in it. YOU HAVE A REASON TO BE HAPPY! Can the iron be made thinner and still shield? Also, I bet if you decreased frequency, the antigravity layer of the iron will cause the apparatus to levitate. Steve Steve Yes, the iron can be made thinner ( up to nearly one nanometer)and still shield because are the gravitational masses of their ATOMS ( diameter approx. one Angstron) that still nullified. The annealed iron tube is the gravitational shielding WHILE its gravitational still nulified.The experiment confirmed that everything inside it lose its weight under these conditions.If we decrease the frequency we reduce the power radiated by the antenna.This way , we must INCREASE the current to produce the apparatus levitation.In the experiment the system-G doesn't levitates because the maximun current was 300 A. It was necessary nearly 400A.We will try to reach this in a future experiment. In attachment the archives named "New apparatus1" and "New apparatus2" that contains all about the experiment carried out today.If you want , you can try to carry out this experiment it is easy and not expensive. Fran From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 08:33:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09777; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:33:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:33:44 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Plasmoids and GDP. Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:45:16 -0500 Message-ID: <20000301164516437.AAA273@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"5l-qF1.0.cO2.dPKlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14058 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: James writes: >Dear All, > >Jean-Louis talks about a plasmoid reactor being a crucial part of a propulsive GDP craft. GDP is electrical - is the plasmoid for power generation, or some other purpose? > >It's very spectacular, but what does Plasmoid plasma do for Glow Discharge Plasma? > >James O. Batchelor We are all waiting with baited breath for Jean-Louis to complete his vehicle so that we see his approach, but in the meantime, I have been made aware that there has been study of electrostatic fusion devices for use as propulsion engines by the US military. I haven't had the time to look for any details, but perhaps that is what Jean-Louis is leading up to in his work. I do have some ideas about how this may be accomplished based on the progress that he has shown us so far, but I haven't made any drawings on how I would approach it. The revelations have been coming at such a fast pace that I've had difficulty in keeping up, but it is enormously fascinating, to say the least. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 08:47:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15704; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:47:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:47:36 -0800 Message-Id: <200003011653.NAA26207@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:48:55 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Negative mass ( was UFO Noise and Jitter ) Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000101bf834e$ba2d9360$72ecffcc@default> References: <001301bf82fe$152f03d0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Resent-Message-ID: <"YVS3h1.0.-q3.ccKlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14059 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > In a post to forcefieldpropulsionphysics you wrote: > > "The whole device weights about 35 kg and when applying 60 Hz @ 300 A to > the antenna, the device looses about 22.1 kg !" > > In fact, according to Prof. Fran de Aquino, the annealed pure iron toroid weights only 1.7 kg. The whole device weights 35 kg. So, 35 kg - 22 kg means loosing a weight equal to 13 kg. Note that the only part of the device that looses weight is the 1.7 kg annealed pure iron toroid. The conclusion is that toroid ends with -11.3 kg when applying 300A to the ELF antenna inside. Prof. Fran estimated 400A to levitate the whole experiment. Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br ------------------------------------------- Get paid to surf the WEB ! Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 ------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 11:01:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16224; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:00:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:00:31 -0800 (PST) From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: UFO Tilt Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:59:01 -0500 Message-ID: <004d01bf83b0$3524cc30$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20000301164516437.AAA273@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"bh5HU2.0.Pz3.DZMlu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14060 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hill reports many cases of "tilt" when an observed UFO accelerates from a stationary hover. His analysis is an angular thrust has both horizontal and vertical vector components so if the vertical is normalized to the force of gravity, horizontal motion results. (Harrier jet works this way). A negative mass platform repelled by gravity and angled to the Earth's center will produce both vectors. DeAquino's equations allow negative mass to be substantial implying large potential force magnitudes. Newton's law says a platform changing from near zero to a large negative mass value will excerpt an opposite force explaining the reports of blown out windows etc. Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 12:26:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA30674; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:25:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:25:38 -0800 Message-ID: <38BD7788.416DA268@info2000.net> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 13:03:20 -0700 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A New Enhanced Plasmoid Generator. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1-r_U2.0.BV7.1pNlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14061 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Try the globe from an electric light.(Wal-mart has them). Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 12:58:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15677; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:56:57 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:56:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20000301202917.83421.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.46] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fw: WARNING hacker are everywere... Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:29:17 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"b9Oq9.0.pq3.NGOlu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14062 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I got this today... and thought with the resent hackings this was pertinent to send on... I hope you will quickly read it before deleting... Timothy... >>From: "Karen Lyster" >>Reply-To: "UFO Scotland" >>To: "2reality" <2reality@fpnet.co.nz> >>Subject: [UFOscotland] Fw: WARNING To all Computer Owners & Publishing >>Businesses >>Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 18:53:45 +1300 >> >>UFO Scotland - http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger >> >>WARNING To all Computer Owners & Publishing Businesses >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia >>To: Aussiepost@listbot.com ; ;Abduction >>Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 5:15 PM >>Subject: WARNING To all Computer Owners & Publishing Businesses >> >> >>The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia - >>http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/new >> >>WARNING To all Computer Owners & Publishing Businesses >>THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOU >> >> >>We never thought it would happen to our >>Mac G3 Computers >>But it did >> >> >> !We got hacked! and it could happen to you, we lost all our Magazine >>info and all our UFO data off 2 ...Separate Computers Systems ... Each >>computer was hooked up to 2 separate phone lines... Data was kept on both >>computers on alternative drives "for protection ha!!! "WRONG" >> >> >> If you have a Any type of computer and you think your safe from hackers >>!think again! Your not. >> >> >> We lost 4 years of publishing work in 20 minutes !GONE NOTHING LEFT! >>Robert lost the only typed copy of his UFO book which he had been >>working on for the past 15 years. It was gone in 15 minutes and there was >>!Nothing! We could do to stop or save a thing. >> >> >> My (Main Drive) disappeared from the my desk top and had to be re- >>configured... So it was able to be re-read but when recovered there was >>not a Meg of data left on either of my 2 x 6 Meg drives. >> >> >> The same happened to Robert (Second Drive) !Nothing Was Recovered! >>from his 2 x 6 Meg drives. Years of work gone in 20 minutes >> >> >> If your in the publishing business.. the I only advise I can give you >>is to unplug your computer from any phone connection when your not on the >>net. Think about it "WE Recovered Nothing" years of work !GONE even >>being off line is NO protection the only protection is being disconnected. >>This is the only safe way to stop these guys. >> >> >> We at Earthlink Publishing have now taken steps so this never happens >>again. I would recommend if you have taken the time to read this e-mail >>you act know. Never leave your system plugged in it could cost you your >>Business. >> >> >> Due to being hacked The Australasian UFOlogist Magazine & Exposure >>Magazine is running a little behind. >> >> >> To the Hacker "thanks for the lesson" !But you failed!. I had the >>foresight to do a backup text copy of both Magazines I may have had to do >>many hours of formating text and re- doing all the layout again but we are >>of the printers in the morning :>) >> >> >> To all subscribers we at Earthlink Publishing are so sorry for the >>inconvenience and the magazines will be in the mail soon after. >> >> >> >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, write to Aussiepost-unsubscribe@listbot.com >>______________________________________________________________________ >>Advertisement: >>Enter to win $1000 at winfreestuff.com! >>What else do you want to win? If you want cash, gourmet foods, palm >>pilots, and other great prizes don't look any further than >>winfreestuff.com! We've got what you want. Check it out at: >>http://www.listbot.com/links/winfreestuff2 >> >> >> >> >>______________________________________________________________________ >>To unsubscribe, write to UFOscotland-unsubscribe@listbot.com >>______________________________________________________________________ >>Advertisement: >>Enter to win $1000 at winfreestuff.com! >>What else do you want to win? If you want cash, gourmet foods, palm >>pilots, and other great prizes don't look any further than >>winfreestuff.com! We've got what you want. Check it out at: >>http://www.listbot.com/links/winfreestuff2 > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 13:09:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA18133; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:08:09 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:08:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20000301210559.91208.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.46] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 13:05:59 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"X05fu2.0.7R4.qQOlu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14063 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hay is there an inventor/marketer out there that wants to make a fast buck??? bring to market a simple box switch that double sided tapes to the side or front of a computer that has an (in) and (out) port for a phone jack... makes disconnection from the net as simple as flicking a switch... and its right next to the power switch on the computer... Just send me one as my commission OK... Timothy... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 13:31:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22234; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:30:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:30:43 -0800 Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <38BD9A4D.1F6CFFED@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 22:31:41 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The search for neutrinos ? References: <000101bf838f$b0678700$a3efffcc@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"PtDJy.0.DR5.3mOlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14064 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter Fred wrote: I have calculations that the horizontal component of the little ball is in one case 92 % and in another 87 % of the actual force measured in a Cavendish balance experiment where big G is determined. Thus I have some experimental justification for my position that G is underestimated by 2. Hi Peter, I am very interested in your calculations and also any data associated with them. Please post as much as you can. Cavendish himself observed that heating the large lead balls seemed to change G. Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 13:43:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28824; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:43:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:43:16 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 16:54:45 -0500 Message-ID: <20000301215445546.AAA272@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"iRke21.0.F27.qxOlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14065 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That's not a bad idea, Tim! It's nicer than reaching around, and wrestling with the plug. Hope you find someone to make one. Knuke >Hay is there an inventor/marketer out there that wants to make a fast >buck??? bring to market a simple box switch that double sided tapes to the >side or front of a computer that has an (in) and (out) port for a phone >jack... makes disconnection from the net as simple as flicking a switch... >and its right next to the power switch on the computer... > >Just send me one as my commission OK... > >Timothy... Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 13:54:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31989; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:53:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:53:39 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Extra-Galactic Travel Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:52:57 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <002901bf8382$a3bb6e20$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <002901bf8382$a3bb6e20$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA31909 Resent-Message-ID: <"khrAa1.0.kp7.Z5Plu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14066 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:32:50 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: >Sorry Robin, >My mistake. That means a nanopound (1E-9 pound). Now you are getting into >the impurity level of the metal alloy technology (which will probably >prevent zero mass obtainability). Does not sound very practical. >Steve Hi Steve, I'm curious about the derivation that led to your conclusion. Could you expand on it a bit. I.e. how is 1E-9 lb connected to the purity of the metal? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 14:02:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02702; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:01:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:01:34 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UFO Radiation and Cold Plasma Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:00:55 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3f4rbsclaeme08du7rucacv6957g1vm9hn@4ax.com> References: <002c01bf8388$0bfa7ee0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <002c01bf8388$0bfa7ee0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA02674 Resent-Message-ID: <"wJ71F.0.3g.zCPlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14067 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:11:32 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: >Robin, >It is not clear to me either. As I stated before I have no experience >designing inter-stellar star ship control systems. I calculated force as >follows: > >nitrogen atom mass = 2.34E-26 kgm >g = 32 ft/sec^2 >weight = 10 tons = 20000 pounds > >a = F/m = (20000lbs * 32ft/sec^2 * 0.454kgm/lbs * 12in/ft * 2.54 cm/in) / >(2.34e-26 kgm * 100 cm/m) = 3.78E+30 m/sec^2 I think you have already found the problem with this approach, as evidenced by the calculation below. > >Another way is to calculate the number of atoms for a given depth under the >disk and divide into the disk weight giving fractional weight per atom. > >Disk area = pi*r^2 = 6.57E+1 m^2 >Density of air = rho = 1.2E+3 gm/m^3 >Distance under craft = 0.1 m This distance is of course a bit arbitrary, but the approach is better than above, if the initial assumption is correct. >Avogadro's number = Av = 6.02E+23 atoms/gm >#atoms = Av*rho*area*depth = 4.74E+27 >force per atom = 10tons/#atoms = 4.22E-24 lbs/atom >acceleration = 8.08E+5 m/sec^2 >time needed for ionization velocity = 1.77E-1 sec >distance needed for ionization = 1.27E+4 m > >Obviously no ionization will occur due to a high probability of a collision >before the required velocity is reached reducing kinetic energy (velocity). > >You tell me how to do it. >Best- >Steve [snip] Overall, I think you are making the unwarranted assumption that the weight of the craft is supported by the plasma. If the craft is to operate in space, then it obviously can't be supported by anything, but needs to be a true antigravity vehicle. Hence any plasma formed probably is just a side effect, and has nothing to do with supporting the craft at all. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 14:14:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08092; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:13:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:13:37 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:12:57 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000001bf8392$2e574b80$a3efffcc@default> <003501bf8394$f50112f0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <003501bf8394$f50112f0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA08058 Resent-Message-ID: <"smmXv3.0.H-1.GOPlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14068 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 10:43:57 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: [snip] Fran De Aquino: >Yes, the iron can be made thinner ( up to nearly one nanometer)and still >shield because are the gravitational masses of their ATOMS ( diameter >approx. one Angstron) that still nullified. The annealed iron tube is the >gravitational shielding WHILE its gravitational still nulified.The >experiment confirmed that everything inside it lose its weight under these >conditions.If we decrease the frequency we reduce the power radiated by the >antenna.This way , we must INCREASE the current to produce the apparatus >levitation. His equation as given seems to me to imply that mass decreases with frequency. I would expect the formula to include the fact that radiation decreases with frequency. Has this already been taken into account or not? If not, then perhaps an adaption of the formula is needed. Such a new formula should show which frequency produces maximal weight reduction for minimal power input (probably design dependant). >In the experiment the system-G doesn't levitates because the >maximun current was 300 A. It was necessary nearly 400A.We will try to reach >this in a future experiment. >In attachment the archives named "New apparatus1" and "New apparatus2" that >contains all about the experiment carried out today.If you want , you can >try to carry out this experiment it is easy and not expensive. >Fran > Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 14:19:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05763; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:17:56 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:17:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Extra-Galactic Travel Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:11:51 -0500 Message-ID: <005001bf83cb$252a9290$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"GSKh.0.wP1.9SPlu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14069 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, This gets into the area of metallurgy and I am definitely not an expert. My thought is: Impurity is generally expressed in parts per million and generally greater than unity (ie. 15ppm means for every million atoms there are 15 atoms of impurity). One micro pound to a pound is one part per million. A nanopound to a pound is 0.001 part per million or one impurity atom to 1 billion atoms. Interesting that claimed artifacts from UFO's seem to have high purity. Hill presents a magnesium artifact of extremely pure Mg26 (stable isotope 11% of natural occurring magnesium). Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 4:53 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Extra-Galactic Travel On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:32:50 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: >Sorry Robin, >My mistake. That means a nanopound (1E-9 pound). Now you are getting into >the impurity level of the metal alloy technology (which will probably >prevent zero mass obtainability). Does not sound very practical. >Steve Hi Steve, I'm curious about the derivation that led to your conclusion. Could you expand on it a bit. I.e. how is 1E-9 lb connected to the purity of the metal? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 14:25:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11720; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:25:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:25:32 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Extra-Galactic Travel Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:24:49 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <636rbs4sm8umoe0lpbad2dshu2tmhj0d0u@4ax.com> References: <005001bf83cb$252a9290$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <005001bf83cb$252a9290$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA11644 Resent-Message-ID: <"ifzAW2.0.ps2.PZPlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14070 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:11:51 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: [snip] >Impurity is generally expressed in parts per million and generally greater >than unity (ie. 15ppm means for every million atoms there are 15 atoms of >impurity). One micro pound to a pound is one part per million. A nanopound >to a pound is 0.001 part per million or one impurity atom to 1 billion >atoms. Interesting that claimed artifacts from UFO's seem to have high >purity. Hill presents a magnesium artifact of extremely pure Mg26 (stable >isotope 11% of natural occurring magnesium). >Steve So the assumption is that the energy radiated by the antenna only affect atoms of one type - why? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 14:26:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11902; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:26:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:26:02 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Negative mass ( was UFO Noise and Jitter ) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:19:19 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <001301bf82fe$152f03d0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> <000101bf834e$ba2d9360$72ecffcc@default> <200003011653.NAA26207@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> In-Reply-To: <200003011653.NAA26207@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA11828 Resent-Message-ID: <"n0Hvs3.0.tv2.vZPlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14071 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 13:48:55 -0300, Marcelo Puhl wrote: >> >> In a post to forcefieldpropulsionphysics you wrote: >> >> "The whole device weights about 35 kg and when applying 60 Hz @ 300 A to >> the antenna, the device looses about 22.1 kg !" This sounds to me like "the weight lost is 22.1 kg", not "the weight remaining in 22.1 kg". I.e. the weight remaining is 12.9 kg. >> >> > >In fact, according to Prof. Fran de Aquino, the annealed pure iron toroid >weights only 1.7 kg. The whole device weights 35 kg. > >So, 35 kg - 22 kg means loosing a weight equal to 13 kg. No, see above. > >Note that the only part of the device that looses weight is the 1.7 kg >annealed pure iron toroid. I find this confusing. What is so different between an iron toroid and toroidal packed iron filings that results in the effect only being felt by the annealed iron, and not by the rest? [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 14:50:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20270; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:50:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:50:07 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 17:36:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Message-ID: <20000302.174020.-406191.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,9-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"g83up1.0.ay4.UwPlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14072 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Regarding forwarded hacker warning: There is a simple procedure that Earthlink should have followed to prevent disasters like that. I'll give you a hint: CD's. If they would have made consistent backups, then the vast majority of the data would be recoverable. Why in the world would someone work on a book for 15 years and yet never make a copy for safekeeping?! Also, if the data was so valuable, did they have a professional look into seeing if the magnetic residuals could be read from the hard drive platters? The e-mail sounds a little suspicious, or perhaps just niave. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- >From Newspaper Headlines: "Women's movement called more broad-based." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 02:26:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA05373; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 02:26:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 02:26:30 -0800 Message-ID: <38BE4F92.2A7A4A30@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 03:25:06 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! References: <20000301210559.91208.qmail@hotmail.com> <38BDE5C7.2C86E7AF@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FVtAt3.0.hJ1.K7alu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14073 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: D Adams wrote: > hey Tim, > > you can pretty much already do this with cable modems....... > > Timothy Flytch wrote: > >> Hay is there an inventor/marketer out there that wants to make a >> fast >> buck??? bring to market a simple box switch that double sided tapes >> to the >> side or front of a computer that has an (in) and (out) port for a >> phone >> jack... makes disconnection from the net as simple as flicking a >> switch... >> and its right next to the power switch on the computer... >> >> Just send me one as my commission OK... >> >> Timothy... >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 05:06:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29690; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:06:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:06:35 -0800 Message-ID: <38BE6788.576C@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:07:20 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: iht@txcr.net, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: power wheel References: <002501bf8427$cf535840$47a270d1@markross> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fydXg3.0.lF7.RTclu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14074 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sparky wrote: > > What Happened to the power wheel? I must have missed somthing. The inventor Mr. Calvin Bahlmann is working out the bugs before he makes his device public. When he is ready to make his device public you will be one of the forst to know. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 05:22:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02056; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:22:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:22:28 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: DeAquino Correspondence Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:21:44 -0500 Message-ID: <005601bf844a$411e62e0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"O81U8.0.1W.Kiclu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14075 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, Yes the existing equations describe decreasing radiated power density as a function of decreasing signal frequency. The balance is reducing the frequency low enough to reduce mass but still maintain a high radiation efficiency. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 5:13 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence His equation as given seems to me to imply that mass decreases with frequency. I would expect the formula to include the fact that radiation decreases with frequency. Has this already been taken into account or not? If not, then perhaps an adaption of the formula is needed. Such a new formula should show which frequency produces maximal weight reduction for minimal power input (probably design dependant). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 05:25:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA03956; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:24:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:24:48 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Extra-Galactic Travel Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:24:02 -0500 Message-ID: <005901bf844a$93792660$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <636rbs4sm8umoe0lpbad2dshu2tmhj0d0u@4ax.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"m4lhs2.0.bz.Vkclu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14076 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, Because the atoms in the shield alloy need high conductivity and permeability. A parametric insulator impurity will not absorb radiation so its mass is not reduced. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 5:25 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Extra-Galactic Travel On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:11:51 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: [snip] >Impurity is generally expressed in parts per million and generally greater >than unity (ie. 15ppm means for every million atoms there are 15 atoms of >impurity). One micro pound to a pound is one part per million. A nanopound >to a pound is 0.001 part per million or one impurity atom to 1 billion >atoms. Interesting that claimed artifacts from UFO's seem to have high >purity. Hill presents a magnesium artifact of extremely pure Mg26 (stable >isotope 11% of natural occurring magnesium). >Steve So the assumption is that the energy radiated by the antenna only affect atoms of one type - why? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 05:33:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA08563; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:32:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:32:52 -0800 Message-ID: <38BE6DB5.3081@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:33:41 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Standard Fuel Cell Info References: <200002261629.IAA08793@smtp0.innovation.com> <38BA828F.80DF120E@globalcrossing.com> <38BAC90F.1C92@cyberportal.net> <38BBC744.CDEA1508@globalcrossing.com> <38BDCAA6.4F24@cyberportal.net> <38BE6BFF.49FF18F7@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yY5fY.0.i52.4sclu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14077 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Martin, Yes! I am already using "Pellon." I buy it from my wife's craft store, Ben Franklin's for $3.00 a square yard. It just didn't click. -Bruce A. Perreault MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > > > > > Just wanted to make sure that the PVC wasn't being used as an > > > electrolyte membrane as in a PEM fuel cell. I've also heard that > > > your electrolyte can be soaked in a nylon cloth. It keeps the > > > electrolyte in and gives an even spacing between the electrodes. > > > The cloth could extend under the cell into a dish of additional > > > electrolyte and draw up more as needed. > > > > Where can we buy this nylon cloth? > > > > The cloth is called PELLON. Here was the link that was using it for their fuel cells:- > > http://uarsfot08.gsfc.nasa.gov/OBS_THEME/Obs_Bat.html > > You should be able to find the cloth at art supply places. As an example :- > > http://www.dixieart.com/ArtMaterials.html#anchor516732 > > sells 14"x14" squares. You can buy 50 of these for $19.50 - so it's not too > expensive. > > Of course you can always that bri-nylon suit in your closet ;-) > > Martin. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 05:33:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA08837; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:33:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:33:48 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Negative mass ( was UFO Noise and Jitter ) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:33:03 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01bf844b$d5d80160$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"VKgpn1.0.w92.xsclu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14078 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, >I.e. the weight remaining is 12.9 kg. Yes. The outer annealed iron shields gravity from acting on the internal part of the apparatus. This is why an occupant inside the shield will not have inertial mass according to Machs Principle. What Fran is saying is more current is required to shield gravity completely. >What is so different between an iron toroid and toroidal packed iron filings that results in the effect only being felt by the annealed iron, and not by the rest? As I have stated numerous times, the purpose of the slightly conductive iron fillings is to slow antenna phase velocity resulting in higher radiation efficiency. You need to spend time with the equation parameter relationships to gain a feel for how the parts interact. Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 05:45:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA14441; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:45:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:45:01 -0800 Message-ID: <38BE7088.38A1@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:45:44 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EVGray Motor Story Hoax References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jVYAo2.0.YX3.S1dlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14079 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BART2SUE@aol.com wrote: > > Bruce, > I knew if I waited long enough you would bring it up on your own. I had read > in one of your papers that you had found this Ev Gray pat. So does it work > good? do you think it would work on large motors?I imagine that you are > thinking of using it on the fuel cell and that it would get even more work > time out of it.I have copies on the fuelless motor where Ev talks about a > portable power unite that you can take camping run ac or dc stuff for 72 > hours and charge back up in 15 min. using your cig liter in the car and that > was before the convertion tube. I had lost faith in Ev when I did not get any > responce from you about this patent when I first joined the list now I feel > renewed that Ev was on to some thing. I did not have alot of success myself with the Gray design. I found it better to wind two coils of plastic coated hook-up wire side by and use them as a glow discharge type spark-gap. I also received a phone call from some guy claiming that he caught Gray late one night recharging his batteries from the wall outlet I kinda got turned off myself from his designs. That's why I have pulled anything relating to Gray's invention from my site. You have to cut your losses before they cut you... ;) -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 12:18:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA09821; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:17:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:17:42 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: ELF Gravity Shield Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 15:14:53 -0500 Message-ID: <007301bf8483$f8c84580$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"-pCpm3.0.EP2.Znilu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14080 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve, When the gravitational mass of an atom is nullified, the gravitons are repelled in a very great region around the atom ; approx. 10.000 atom's radius( and not only in the atom region).This is a consequence of the well-known quantum scattering cross section of the atom. So, it isn't necessary nullify all the gravitational masses of the atoms of a spherical crust to produce a gravitational shielding, this way 95-100% purity is sufficient . News! Equation(1.04) can explain Biefeld-Brown effect , and more will be possible to deduce De Broglie's expression and the Uncertainty Principle from mentioned equation.I will send the calculations in few weeks. Fran >Fran, >After numerous discussions with other Engineers, the consensus is the >maximum speed for a zero mass shield is restricted by impurities in the >gravity shield. Below is my effort to quantify this. > >Any progress with your experimentation? I am waiting on a wire delivery and >hope to start testing by next week. >Steve > >Shield Impurity Analysis: > >After exploring the theoretical top speed of an ELF craft, impurities in the >shield seem to be the limiting factor. I talked with several mechanical >engineers and the consensus regarding metal purity is- >According to Machinery's Handbook, 24th Edition, commercial highest grade >nickel is 99.5% pure. The shield can be made as thin as one nanometer. > >To get a feel for how this relates to maximum speed, consider the following: > >Craft is a 30 foot diameter sphere weighting 2.0E+4 pounds (10 tons) on >earth, >Nickel alloy shield is one nanometer in depth, >Nickel alloy shield is 99.5% pure, impurities are parametric and insulators >(worst case), >Average impurity mass is 5.0E-23 grams and density is 5.0 grams/m^3. >Avogadro's number Av = 6.02E+23 atoms/gram. >g = 32.2 ft/sec^2. >c = 3.0E8 m/sec. > >Surface area of sphere is A = 4pi * r^2 = 262.7 m^2. >#atoms in shield is #atoms = Av * density * A * depth = 7.9E+17 atoms in the >shield. >#impurity atoms = 0.005 * #atoms = 3.95E+15 impurity atoms. >Total mass of impurity atoms = #impurity atoms * mass = 1.98E-7 grams. >Mass of craft m = weight/g = 621.1 slugs = 9.07E+6 grams. > >The craft is accelerated to a velocity of 100,000mph or 27.8mps or >0.000149c. Momentum = m * v = 4.06E+8 kgm-m/sec. The ELF control system is >turned on and adjusted to cycle from positive to negative mass. As the >control cycle passes through zero mass for the nickel alloy shield, craft >weight will be shield impurity weight or 1.98E-10 kgm. Relativistic velocity >expressed in terms of mass and momentum is v=p/sqrt(m^2+(p/c)^2). So for >craft mass reduced to impurity mass, conservation of momentum says v = >0.9999999999999999997c. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 16:52:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA22801; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 16:52:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 16:52:06 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 11:51:27 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <005601bf844a$411e62e0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <005601bf844a$411e62e0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA22779 Resent-Message-ID: <"seGN52.0.9a5.romlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14081 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:21:44 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: >Robin, >Yes the existing equations describe decreasing radiated power density as a >function of decreasing signal frequency. The balance is reducing the >frequency low enough to reduce mass but still maintain a high radiation >efficiency. >Steve The point I was trying to make, was that if you had a formula which expressed % mass loss per watt of input power, as a function of frequency, then setting the frequency derivative to zero would provide the optimum frequency at which the device should be operated. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 16:54:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA10354; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Extra-Galactic Travel Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 11:53:05 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <053ubskufpv618d7iaorhs2l7rcr9l0h2n@4ax.com> References: <636rbs4sm8umoe0lpbad2dshu2tmhj0d0u@4ax.com> <005901bf844a$93792660$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <005901bf844a$93792660$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id QAA10332 Resent-Message-ID: <"Frln02.0.dX2.Pqmlu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14082 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:24:02 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: >Robin, >Because the atoms in the shield alloy need high conductivity and >permeability. A parametric insulator impurity will not absorb radiation so >its mass is not reduced. >Steve I take it by absorb, that you mean absorb and convert into something else, rather than absorb and re-emit. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 17:09:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA27300; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 17:09:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 17:09:28 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Negative mass ( was UFO Noise and Jitter ) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 12:08:53 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <883ubssqc0hnuqfihrcuvas5m9415e6ln8@4ax.com> References: <005c01bf844b$d5d80160$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <005c01bf844b$d5d80160$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA27252 Resent-Message-ID: <"TGpKu.0.Sg6.83nlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14083 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:33:03 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: >Robin, > >>I.e. the weight remaining is 12.9 kg. > >Yes. The outer annealed iron shields gravity from acting on the internal >part of the apparatus. This is why an occupant inside the shield will not >have inertial mass according to Machs Principle. What Fran is saying is more >current is required to shield gravity completely. > >>What is so different between an iron toroid and >toroidal packed iron filings that results in the effect only being felt by >the annealed iron, and not by the rest? > >As I have stated numerous times, the purpose of the slightly conductive iron >fillings is to slow antenna phase velocity resulting in higher radiation >efficiency. You need to spend time with the equation parameter relationships >to gain a feel for how the parts interact. >Steve > What makes you think that packed iron filings are going to conduct less than a nano-meter thick nickel layer? I suspect that the reverse is true. If the idea is to have a low conducting filling that has a reasonable magnetic permeability, then why not use iron-oxide (rust) iso iron filings? How do you know that there is a shielding effect at all, rather than all the conductors losing weight? Perhaps the shielding effect takes place at the outermost dielectric-conductor interface? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 18:34:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25496; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 18:34:02 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 18:34:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000302183742.08e70c30@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:37:42 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence In-Reply-To: References: <005601bf844a$411e62e0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> <005601bf844a$411e62e0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ThJpK1.0.7E6.DIolu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14084 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin, Steve and all, At 11:51 AM 03/03/00 +1100, you wrote: >The point I was trying to make, was that if you had a formula which >expressed % mass loss per watt of input power, as a function of frequency, >then setting the frequency derivative to zero would provide the optimum >frequency at which the device should be operated. >Regards, > The formula is something like Mass = mass(0){1-aU/freq} where I have left off all the exponents, etc. which I'm not sure I can read correctly from http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9910036 a = function c, mu epsilon, U = EM energy absorbed If this is true, there is no zero slope point vs. frequency -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 00:30:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07069; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 00:29:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 00:29:53 -0800 Message-ID: <003d01bf84ea$8fe92c20$4ce135ca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: Subject: Re: The search for neutrinos ? Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:08:39 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"62Yul.0.Hk1.yVtlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14085 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The method of detecting neutrinos had no mention of an electrostatic charge, which seems (to me) to be necessary for successful detection. I also see the energy requirements for H1 => neutron : e-( 783 KeV ) H2 => 2H1: e-( 1.44 MeV ) are very high. Based on a possibly erroneous process: He3 + (20KeV)e- + neutrino => H3, I had a vision of the following: * metallic vessel filled (completely) with He3 and O16 * vessel hermetically sealed to prevent admixture from atmosphere. * vessel charged negative to provide free excess electrons in He3 * vessel heated to provide velocity component * distillation/condensation loop to detect water (diTritium Oxide) Not being a member of the club, I suppose there are multiple flaws in the scenario. So - why would this not work ? Just curious ! (learning) composed and sent from Paul E. Anderson's computer (with or without my permission) ============================== ICQ 52281118 -----Original Message----- From: Taylor J. Smith To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: 2000 February 29, Tuesday 20:01 Subject: Re: The search for neutrinos ? | |tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: | |Mr. Anderson, | |If I recall aright, |the detected level of neutrinos emitted from our sun |is far below what is predicted. However, it has recently |been determined that they can change their "flavor" (I |think that's the term, but I usually get QM terms mixed up) |and only one type is directly detectable (at present). |So, the neutrino problem is pretty well solved (if I am |remembering correctly). | |Robin van Spaandonk wrote: | |I was never very favourably impressed by this "proof", |which as far as I know goes along the lines of "we detect |less than we can explain, but if they change flavour |then that would be a good excuse", followed by better |measurements of less than expected neutrinos, and the |consequent conclusion that they therefore do indeed change |flavour. IOW it's a circular argument. | |Regards, Robin van Spaandonk | |Hi Robin, | |What little presentation of the Super-K data I could find |on the web was very amusing: They plotted "hits" against |the cosine of the angle on the celestial sphere with the |Sun at 0 degrees. Not surprisingly, they obtained a spike |at 0 degrees. | |I did a rough graphical analysis of the same data without |the cosine transformation, and found no spike. You know |tbe classic line: "Liars, Damned Liars..." | |Jack Smith | | | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 00:32:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07172; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 00:30:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 00:30:59 -0800 Message-ID: <003c01bf84ea$8f521c40$4ce135ca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: Subject: Re: UFO Noise and Jitter Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:12:33 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"EifON2.0.wl1.-Wtlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14086 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Where oh where did you use a shaker table ? composed and sent from Paul E. Anderson's computer (with or without my permission) ============================== ICQ 52281118 -----Original Message----- From: Steve Burns To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: 2000 February 29, Tuesday 23:32 Subject: UFO Noise and Jitter |All, | |Since UFO's seems to be a responsive subject, consider the following: | | | |shake objects a greater displacement distance. My experience with shaker |tables says from 10Hz to about 200Hz, objects exhibit resonance frequencies | |Comments? | |Steve Burns From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 03:50:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA30990; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 03:50:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 03:50:07 -0800 Message-ID: <020201bf8506$99e0ae80$4ce135ca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: Subject: Re: Mass and measurement Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:28:46 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"sCu0N1.0.7a7.lRwlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14087 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks, Robin - I see the point. My next question is: Is there a file (text or otherwise) someone could post listing isotopes and their latest derived atomic weights (and/or mass defects) ? I already have PTOE 3.54 and a couple of other charts/programs, but they seem to have only the AMU value for the main element, or their isotope data appears to be ancient and inconsistent. I have been working with a collage of data from Kay & Laby (1987) which has a large number of inconsistencies in the data. The best I can say is that the table of isotopes appears consistent, but the AMU equivalent isn't given. I have derived the AMU backwards from the data, but the value I get differs from the values listed elsewhere. If anyone cares to see, I could post a CSV file of what I have transcripted so far. composed and sent from Paul E. Anderson's computer (with or without my permission) ============================== ICQ 52281118 -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: 2000 March 01, Wednesday 11:15 Subject: Re: Mass and measurement |On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:25:20 +0700, xplorer wrote: | |>Robin, |> | |This is also the definition given in Encarta, but I don't prefer it. |(See http://antoine.fsu.umd.edu/chem/senese/101/atoms/slides/sld019.htm ). |[snip] |>Now, my question is why the calculation is not: |> |>Mdefect = ( ( Np * ( Me + Mp ) ) + ( Nn * Mn ) ) - Mz | |This calculation is apparently also used. |As long as you only calculate differences between mass defects, it doesn't |matter which definition you use e.g. |Take carbon and 3 heliums. | |MD(C) = 12 - Mc |MD(He) = 4 - MHe | |(MD(C) - 3 x MD(He)) = (12 - Mc) - 3 x (4 - MHe) = (12 - Mc) - (12 - 3 x |MHe) |= -Mc + 3 x MHe = 3 x MHe - Mc. | |Where MD(C) is mass deficit of carbon etc. |Mc = real mass of carbon. |MHe the real mass of helium. | |IOW the 'Z's drop out anyway when you do the subtraction (12 = 3 x 4). |So the *difference* in mass defects gives the correct energy difference |between begin and final states, no matter which definition you use, provided |that you use the same definition consistently. | | |Regards, | |Robin van Spaandonk | | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 05:26:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA15989; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 05:26:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 05:26:19 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Negative mass ( was UFO Noise and Jitter ) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:25:31 -0500 Message-ID: <008d01bf8513$f2e91e60$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <883ubssqc0hnuqfihrcuvas5m9415e6ln8@4ax.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"vl_y33.0.fv3.xrxlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14088 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, If you examine the equation parameter relationships you will get a feel for how components interact. >What makes you think that packed iron filings are going to conduct less than >a nano-meter thick nickel layer? I suspect that the reverse is true. The iron filings were packed to obtain a conductivity of 10S/m. Sea water conductivity is ~5S/m. >If the idea is to have a low conducting filling that has a reasonable >magnetic permeability, then why not use iron-oxide (rust) iso iron filings? You also need high permeability which oxides do not have. >How do you know that there is a shielding effect at all, rather than all the >conductors losing weight? Copper has a relative permeability of unity. If will not efficiently absorb ELF. >Perhaps the shielding effect takes place at the outermost >dielectric-conductor interface? There is no dielectric. Equations clearly show permittivity effects are negligible. Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 05:34:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA17960; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 05:34:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 05:34:22 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Extra-Galactic Travel Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:33:34 -0500 Message-ID: <009001bf8515$12c326d0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <053ubskufpv618d7iaorhs2l7rcr9l0h2n@4ax.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"IGzen3.0.XO4.Tzxlu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14089 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, Yes. The only intuitive explanation I have seen is Pressokv's distorted electron cloud theory. He suggests an atom at rest in a gravitational field has a distorted electron cloud so the nucleus is dislocated from the average center. The atom creates an internal force as it tries to correct for this. Maybe ELF "shakes" the cloud. Other than this, I have no idea of the microscopic dynamics of ELF interaction. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:53 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Extra-Galactic Travel On Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:24:02 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: >Robin, >Because the atoms in the shield alloy need high conductivity and >permeability. A parametric insulator impurity will not absorb radiation so >its mass is not reduced. >Steve I take it by absorb, that you mean absorb and convert into something else, rather than absorb and re-emit. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 05:42:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20009; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 05:42:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 05:42:26 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: DeAquino Correspondence Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:41:39 -0500 Message-ID: <009301bf8516$338879a0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"hXpS41.0.Yu4.25ylu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14090 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, I see your point. I will try to do this. Both current and frequency can be controlled so maybe there is a minima for the combination. I have done iterative calculations that suggest there is clearly a zero frequency. Unfortunately, current electronics can not provide a stable <1Hz frequency to more than ~9 decimal places. "Calculations show 31.4A and 0.168197966Hz reduces a nickel atom mass from 9.37E-23 to -1.7E-30 or ~8 orders of magnitude." The other issue regarding the zero point is how negative mass behaves. If negative mass falls down, you have a minima. If it falls up, you have an "S" curve inflection point. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:51 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence On Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:21:44 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: >Robin, >Yes the existing equations describe decreasing radiated power density as a >function of decreasing signal frequency. The balance is reducing the >frequency low enough to reduce mass but still maintain a high radiation >efficiency. >Steve The point I was trying to make, was that if you had a formula which expressed % mass loss per watt of input power, as a function of frequency, then setting the frequency derivative to zero would provide the optimum frequency at which the device should be operated. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 06:04:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24917; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 06:03:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 06:03:34 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Mass and measurement Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 09:03:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf8519$404eb5c0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <020201bf8506$99e0ae80$4ce135ca@xplornote> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"cXS_z3.0.856.rOylu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14091 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Check out: http://www.webelements.com/ Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 07:59:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA23469; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 07:59:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 07:59:03 -0800 From: "Peter Fred" To: Subject: RE: The search for neutrinos ? Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:54:29 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf8528$c2a8ed60$caefffcc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <38BD9A4D.1F6CFFED@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"K-FKe2.0.Yk5.65-lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14092 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jack, What I have calculated to get a expression for the horizontal force of the little ball in a Cavendish is at my web sites. My sites are under constuction and I am trying to reduce them to one. Here are my three sites http://members.iglou.com/nfred/Ordered.htm http://pbfred.tripod.com/Ordered.htm http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/ The tripod.com is in the worst state of repair but I will be working on it today. George T. Gillies in Metrologia 24 (Suppl.) 1-56 (1987) has a section on Dependence of G on Temperature where among other things he writes of Shaw's work in the early 1920's. Shaw's last work on this topic was published in Phys. Rev. 21, 680-691 (1923). Since I believe that gravity is nothing more than a consequence of heat flowing through a curved surface, to observe the phenomena you have to be judicious on how you make heat flow through such a surface. Thus I am only causually interested in Shaw's work. To me his design was not set up to optimally observe a heat-related gravity effect. Furthemore his design was not set up to help to reduce to practice a viable antigravity propulsion device. Peter Fred Peter Fred wrote: I have calculations that the horizontal component of the little ball is in one case 92 % and in another 87 % of the actual force measured in a Cavendish balance experiment where big G is determined. Thus I have some experimental justification for my position that G is underestimated by 2. Hi Peter, I am very interested in your calculations and also any data associated with them. Please post as much as you can. Cavendish himself observed that heating the large lead balls seemed to change G. Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 08:08:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA26858; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:08:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:08:42 -0800 Message-ID: <20000303160808.19859.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [193.166.151.60] From: "Suomen Paratutkimusarkisto" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Torsion Field Generator? Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 16:08:08 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"krKsP.0.ZZ6.9E-lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14093 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello dear member of freenrg-l list... I'm new person in this list... I'm the finnish student of physicks and member in the researcher group ("ETIT-Group") for anomalies consciousness phenomenas and anomalous energy. Do anybody know more about the torsion field generator? Russian scientist (Akimov & co. , Sphilman, etc. (?) ) are building that, but how?Is somewhere more information? Have anywhere published any books what telling more about a TF Generator(all books and materials what I can have, telling about the Torsion Field theory)? Have any European or American scientist doing experiment of a TF generator? Now we try doing experiments of torsion field, but we need actually more information about a TF generator. Information?.. JPL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. P. Lassila PO. Box 254 FIN-28101 PORI jlassila@tp.spt.fi ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 08:21:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31175; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:21:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:21:38 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Torsion Field Generator? Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:21:27 -0500 Message-ID: <000401bf852c$867baa90$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20000303160808.19859.qmail@hotmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"S1eDz3.0.xc7.HQ-lu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14094 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JPL, There were weeks of email about this last year on Berkants old antigravity list (now deleted). I read some then lost interest. I recall Univ of Houston is doing experiments but is apparently classified. Berkank may have archived information about this. Berkants email address is: bgoeksel@physik.TU-Berlin.DE Best- Steve -----Original Message----- From: Suomen Paratutkimusarkisto [mailto:paratutkimus@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 11:08 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Torsion Field Generator? Hello dear member of freenrg-l list... I'm new person in this list... I'm the finnish student of physicks and member in the researcher group ("ETIT-Group") for anomalies consciousness phenomenas and anomalous energy. Do anybody know more about the torsion field generator? Russian scientist (Akimov & co. , Sphilman, etc. (?) ) are building that, but how?Is somewhere more information? Have anywhere published any books what telling more about a TF Generator(all books and materials what I can have, telling about the Torsion Field theory)? Have any European or American scientist doing experiment of a TF generator? Now we try doing experiments of torsion field, but we need actually more information about a TF generator. Information?.. JPL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. P. Lassila PO. Box 254 FIN-28101 PORI jlassila@tp.spt.fi ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 10:32:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA14281; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:32:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:32:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:31:55 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sean=20Palmer?= Subject: Ball lightning and other effects In-Reply-To: <20000303152751.9123.qmail@web902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BaOp-1.0._U3.YK0mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14095 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, [iso-8859-1] Sean Palmer wrote: > Dear Sir, > I author a fairly substantial site researching earth > lights, ball lightning and other luminous phenomena. > http://www.earthlights.tsx.org Hi Sean! I've added your link to the Ball Lightning page BALL LIGHTNING: ARTICLES AND LINKS http://www.amasci.com/tesla/ballgtn.html BALL LIGHTNING: WITNESS REPORTS http://www.amasci.com/weird/unusual/bl.html I certainly agree that there are a variety of phenomena which appear as "ball lightning." Since the physics of "BL" is unexplained, there is obviously the possibility that earthlights/bl are always the same phenomena, but can be generated in a variety of different ways. The physical world apparently follows simple rules, and if those rules allow glowing spheres of "energy" to exist, then perhaps the majority of these spheres involve the same piece of physics. I've never heard of the "Vorton" theory. Maybe this concept is similar: if a charged particle is actually an electromagnetic wave which chases its own tail in a tight circle, then Maxwell's equations do not cover all of electromagnetism, since EM waves are not supposed to be able to act like this. If Maxwell's equations require extension, then perhaps "earthlights" will be covered under this extension (and so "earthlights" would be similar to single electrons, but with vastly greater internal energy and perhaps lower frequency.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 12:59:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10691; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:58:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:58:14 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The search for neutrinos ? Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:57:35 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <003d01bf84ea$8fe92c20$4ce135ca@xplornote> In-Reply-To: <003d01bf84ea$8fe92c20$4ce135ca@xplornote> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA10615 Resent-Message-ID: <"HyXxk.0.yc2.bT2mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14096 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:08:39 +0700, xplorer wrote: >The method of detecting neutrinos had no mention > of an electrostatic charge, which seems (to me) > to be necessary for successful detection. >I also see the energy requirements for > H1 => neutron : e-( 783 KeV ) > H2 => 2H1: e-( 1.44 MeV ) >are very high. > >Based on a possibly erroneous process: > He3 + (20KeV)e- + neutrino => H3, >I had a vision of the following: Check out the price of He3. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 13:13:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20455; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:12:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:12:23 -0800 (PST) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Negative mass ( was UFO Noise and Jitter ) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 08:11:31 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <62a0cssrikkg5ia886fv2ureuj1scvclib@4ax.com> References: <883ubssqc0hnuqfihrcuvas5m9415e6ln8@4ax.com> <008d01bf8513$f2e91e60$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <008d01bf8513$f2e91e60$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id NAA20399 Resent-Message-ID: <"UkGB2.0.R_4.og2mu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14097 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:25:31 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: [snip] >>How do you know that there is a shielding effect at all, rather than all >the >>conductors losing weight? > >Copper has a relative permeability of unity. If will not efficiently absorb >ELF. So copper antennae don't work ?! - this is news to me. What about the electric component of the field (E)? Besides, if you can transmit from a copper antenna (which you are doing), then why can't you receive with a copper antenna (shield)? Or is it perhaps a matter of the receiver and transmitter needing to work on different components of the wave (E and B)? E.g. would a Ni transmitter and a copper receiver work? > >>Perhaps the shielding effect takes place at the outermost >>dielectric-conductor interface? > >There is no dielectric. Equations clearly show permittivity effects are >negligible. The air is the dielectric. What I am trying to get at, is what determines which part of the device will act as the shield, apart from the fact that you would like the bit on the outside to serve that function? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 13:32:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24490; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:30:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:30:36 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: RE: Negative mass ( was UFO Noise and Jitter ) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:42:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20000303214209968.AAA172@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"DXga03.0.S-5.yx2mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14098 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve writess >>If the idea is to have a low conducting filling that has a reasonable >>magnetic permeability, then why not use iron-oxide (rust) iso iron filings? > >You also need high permeability which oxides do not have. You guys might want to check out the work of Dr. Ken Suslick at University of Illinois. He has developed a cavitation process which is able to produce amorphous metals, including iron. I asked Fred Epps about what good this would be some years ago, and he told me that it would be a real boon in the making of transformers because of the very low conductivity which would greatly reduce the eddy currents, while the retaining the permeability of iron. Suslick has a patent on the process I believe, so it should turn up on a search. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 14:51:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23206; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:50:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:50:37 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Ball lightning and other effects Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:02:10 -0500 Message-ID: <20000303230210234.AAA187@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"6Riie3.0.Mg5.w64mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14099 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Billb writes: >Hi Sean! I've added your link to the Ball Lightning page > > BALL LIGHTNING: ARTICLES AND LINKS > http://www.amasci.com/tesla/ballgtn.html > > BALL LIGHTNING: WITNESS REPORTS > http://www.amasci.com/weird/unusual/bl.html > > >I certainly agree that there are a variety of phenomena which appear as >"ball lightning." Since the physics of "BL" is unexplained, there is >obviously the possibility that earthlights/bl are always the same >phenomena, but can be generated in a variety of different ways. The >physical world apparently follows simple rules, and if those rules allow >glowing spheres of "energy" to exist, then perhaps the majority of these >spheres involve the same piece of physics. > > >I've never heard of the "Vorton" theory. Maybe this concept is similar: > > if a charged particle is actually an electromagnetic wave which chases > its own tail in a tight circle, then Maxwell's equations do not cover > all of electromagnetism, since EM waves are not supposed to be able > to act like this. If Maxwell's equations require extension, then > perhaps "earthlights" will be covered under this extension (and so > "earthlights" would be similar to single electrons, but with vastly > greater internal energy and perhaps lower frequency.) Hi Bill, It seems to me that if you take the concept for producing BL that Naudin is using, using a microwave to ionize burning carbon, then it might be possible to generate electricity using the electrons from the ionized Carbon. Consider this: The microwave energy is absorbed by the Carbon until it forms a ball of lightening which seems to have an affinity for the AC EM source that is supplying it. It travels toward the source. While the ball is being supplied EM from the magnetron, it is sustained, but with some materials, the ball seems to sustain itself for a while longer, even after the original source of energy is turned off. If a collector plate or ring made of MU metal that was capable of carrying a very small AC current of the same voltage and frequency as the microwave, were between the supplying EM source (magnetron antenna) and the ball, the source power could be turned off and the low power to the MU metal collector plate could be turned on just before the ball reached the plate or ring. The ball should contact the plate and dump the electrons into that circuit which could have a capacitor of sufficiently large storage capacity to absorb the energy supplied by the ball without blowing it up. The ball itself, which would contain ionized Carbon or whatever material used, would then be minus some subatomic stuff, and would be, in essence, transmuted into a lesser element, and deposited onto the plate or ring. This could be repeated as necessary to supply a steady amount of current after the capacitor was slowly drained of its charge by a load. I don't know if anyone has thought of this approach or if it even has merit, but it looks to me like it would be worth investigating as way to generate electricity from the atom itself, while in the ball lightening "phase". Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 02:48:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA19010; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:48:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:48:20 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 12:44:24 +0200 From: Stanislav Golubev X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.38) S/N 97916B74 / Personal Reply-To: Stanislav Golubev Organization: ANNA ltd X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <12530.000304@anna.zaporizhzhe.ua> To: Suomen Paratutkimusarkisto Subject: Re: Torsion Field Generator? In-reply-To: <20000303160808.19859.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <20000303160808.19859.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R4P-Z2.0.xe4.pdEmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14100 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Suomen, You wrote: SP> Do anybody know more about the torsion field generator? Russian scientist SP> (Akimov & co. , Sphilman, etc. (?) ) are building that, but how?Is somewhere SP> more information? Have anywhere published any books what telling more about SP> a TF Generator(all books and materials what I can have, telling about the SP> Torsion Field theory)? SP> Have any European or American scientist doing experiment of a TF generator? You could contact to Alexander Shpilman (sah@kaznet.kz) and forward your request directly. There is also article: "Shipov, Torsion, and Absolute Parallelism" http://www22.pair.com/csdc/pd2/pd2fre51.htm Best regards, Stan Golubev mailto:stan@anna.zaporizhzhe.ua From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 03:53:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27045; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 03:53:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 03:53:05 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 12:52:59 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200003041152.MAA28576@front6m.grolier.fr> X-Sender: jplentin@pop3.club-internet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Re : Torsion Field Generator? Resent-Message-ID: <"-dg6D3.0.Uc6.XaFmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14101 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Suomen & all ! > Do anybody know more about the torsion field generator? Lots of info on torsion field at http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/tors/ http://www.scienceclub.org/cgi-pvt/tors/whoswho.html VortexC-L = a discussion list specially devoted to torsion fields (very quiet at the moment, but the archives from last year - wherever they are - have a wealth of information, with participation of several Russian researchers) Send Subscribe/Unsubscribe commands (in the "subject" line) to vortexC-L-request@eskimo.com Alexander Shpilman website : http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/ Hope this helps --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 07:56:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA18293; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 07:56:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 07:56:13 -0800 Message-ID: <38C13123.6A5B25B2@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 17:52:03 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence References: <003501bf8394$f50112f0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HL7OK1.0.gT4.S8Jmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14102 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve, I read little late the wonderful news. I guess the first industry which use the gravity shielding technology would be semiconductor sector with silicon wafer production on zero gravity rooms which allows to produce defect free crystals. Ironic prediction isn't it ? On later postings, it is suggested the inertia is also canceled with the weight, great news for space travel but this seems contradictional to the theory basic. > DeAquino acheived the result at his university in Brazil: > > Steve, > Today January 27 , 2000 at 10:15 o'clock AM ( local time )the system-G > worked. Practical problems are over at least.The apparatus worked well and > the obtained experimental results confirmed my theoretical predictions. > Fran De Aquino Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 11:21:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16513; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:21:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:21:24 -0800 Message-ID: <01e801bf860e$84816580$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:19:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"hMX0U3.0.s14.q8Mmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14103 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree. If a large gravity shield platform were built and all objects set on it became one tenth their weight because the natural attraction between it's ( the objects ) mass and the mass of the earth was reduced, then why would the inertia of the object ( even though it is not inside the platform ) be affected. If it really is shielding gravity then the inertia ( and hense actual mass ) is not really being changed just the percieved mass ( as detected by a scale ). The concept of negative mass would make the most sense as the gravity attraction being reversed into a repulsion, with no actual change of "Mass". If it really is shielding gravity then it would be the same as taking an object halfway to mars where the earth has no effect, yet it has the same mass. On the other hand if it is really reducing mass then an object above the platform would not be affected ( only objects inside ) and "negative mass" would be impossible. I would love to get more data on the experiment: Are objects above the unit affected at all and does the unit feel heavy when shaken from side to side. This would solve the question. scottb -----Original Message----- From: hamdi ucar To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 7:55 AM Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence >Steve, > >I read little late the wonderful news. > >I guess the first industry which use the gravity shielding technology would be semiconductor sector with silicon wafer production on zero gravity rooms which allows to produce defect free crystals. Ironic prediction isn't it ? > >On later postings, it is suggested the inertia is also canceled with the weight, great news for space travel but this seems contradictional to the theory basic. > >> DeAquino acheived the result at his university in Brazil: >> >> Steve, >> Today January 27 , 2000 at 10:15 o'clock AM ( local time )the system-G >> worked. Practical problems are over at least.The apparatus worked well and >> the obtained experimental results confirmed my theoretical predictions. >> Fran De Aquino > >Regards, > >hamdi ucar > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 15:59:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22193; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 15:58:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 15:58:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 15:58:42 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: sciclub-list@eskimo.com Subject: science toy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gkQSd1.0.KQ5.uCQmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14104 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.x10.com/products/vk45a_kit_components.htm This is a color CCD security camera with 2.4GHz transmitter and receiver. Folks on the TAP-L forum are using them for physics demonstrations. These things have been around for awhile, but usually for about $300 total for the separate parts. This "x10" company is having a sale, and the kit is $80 total (and $50 each for individual camera/transmitters, which is quite a deal for a color CCD.) They are said to use standard coaxial power plugs at 12Vdc, and at least one person has had success running his with a battery pack. Put one in your "antigravity" drop tower demo? Spin it on a rotating table for Coriolous-ity? Lash it to an RC model helicopter or blimp? Wireless webcam? Drive it around with a remote controlled toy car? Become a Cyranoid Controller, and monitor your puppets via their forehead-cams! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 17:35:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA13916; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 17:35:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 17:35:41 -0800 Message-ID: <00b101bf8643$10506be0$325cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: Subject: Re: Ball lightning and other effects Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 20:03:05 -0500 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"u5xlJ1.0.LP3.jdRmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14105 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I read Aleister Crowley's autobiography last year. He writes that while living in New York state, he once witnessed ball lightning. Afterwards, "I thought the phenomenon of sufficient interest to record; and wrote a brief description to the New York Times. The result was surprising. I found myself inundated with letters of inquiry from so many electrical students that I had at last to have an account multigraphed to send out. "I had supposed that globular electricity was a well-known and undoubted, if rare, phenomenon, and was amazed to learn that until then it had never been seen by any reliable and competent observer. I had quite an elaborate correspondence with Professor Elihu Thompson, one of the greatest living authorities on electricity, about it. It appeared that previous accounts were the statements of common sailors. They left considerable room for doubting the existence of globular electricity at all. This doubt was strengthed by the extreme difficulty of framing any satisfactory hypothesis to explain the occurrence. My observation turned out, therefore, to be (in its way) a matter of primary importance. I ventured to suggest an explanation of my own; but Professor Thompson felt that, while it covered the facts of the case and even those of previous observations, it involved a conception of electricity which was not easy to reconcile with the implications of certain other phenomena. "In the course of our correspondence, Professor Thompson communicated several extremely subtle and stimulating ideas as to the nature of matter, electricity and indeed of nature in general. They perhaps helped me to envisage consciously, for the first time, a strictly formal identification of the results of rational intellection with those of immediate intuition." And that's all that he says about it. Is there anyone on this list who would be able to find out what Crowley's theory was? (Another thing I would like to know, though off-topic for this list, is exactly what Crowley did at Montauk.) -- "I'd rather have my country die for me." --Grace Slick, 'rejoyce' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 18:16:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22432; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 18:16:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 18:16:13 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Ball lightning and other effects Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:27:51 -0500 Message-ID: <20000305022751234.AAA252@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"Z88Rs.0.OU5.iDSmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14106 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ahoy! It appeared that previous accounts were the statements >of common sailors. They left considerable room for doubting the existence of >globular electricity at all. I don't know what Crowley's theory was, but I loved this observation. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 20:39:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA27246; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 20:38:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 20:38:54 -0800 Message-ID: <24486911.952230908204.JavaMail.imail@cheeks.excite.com> Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 20:35:08 -0800 (PST) From: Harvey D Norris Reply-To: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ball lightning and other effects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 199.174.178.59 Resent-Message-ID: <"toSnK1.0.df6.TJUmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14107 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 4 Mar 2000 21:27:51 -0500, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > Ahoy! > > It appeared that previous accounts were the statements > >of common sailors. They left considerable room for doubting the existence of > >globular electricity at all. Ahoy mates, pardon the interuption of this thread but I am attempting to take some pictures of a high voltage arc to water, some of this stuff seems stupendous. My research is starting to produce results but when I try to take a digital picture of the arcing in darkness, the flash goes off on this Relisys- Dimera 3500 cheap camera I purchased for $100.00 from Xoom.com on a special offer. The flash causes so much glare that the picture does hardly show the arc. My neighbor takes the pictures and prints them from his color printer, this is how the results have been seen. We have had problems downloading to 3 1/2 floppy, worked one time ,next not. Great phenomenon, no go on the pictures. These are important pictures. Big John, my seemingly life long neighbor has been a frequent assistant in my discoveries,he is charge of the camera. He once survived an accidental electrocution by 3 paralleled 30 ma 15,000volt NST's(neon sign transformer) powering a mistuned tesla coil of large diameter. John suggested taking the picture with his finger over the flash, the picture still come out as if a great amount of bakground light exists, when these pictures are being taken in the dark? I am clueless, and missing the current Red Dwarf episode, got to go, any advise appreciated. HDN > Binary Resonant System http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 00:38:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA00313; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 00:37:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 00:37:52 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <4d.1d5b61d.25f376b9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 03:37:13 EST Subject: Re: science toy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA32750 Resent-Message-ID: <"GZjfa2.0.j4.VpXmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14108 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 05/03/00 01:00:49 Paris, Madrid, billb@eskimo.com a écrit : > This is a color CCD security camera with 2.4GHz transmitter and receiver. > Folks on the TAP-L forum are using them for physics demonstrations. These > things have been around for awhile, but usually for about $300 total for > the separate parts. This "x10" company is having a sale, and the kit is > $80 total (and $50 each for individual camera/transmitters, which is quite > a deal for a color CCD.) > > They are said to use standard coaxial power plugs at 12Vdc, and at least > one person has had success running his with a battery pack. > > Put one in your "antigravity" drop tower demo? Spin it on a rotating > table for Coriolous-ity? Lash it to an RC model helicopter or blimp? > Wireless webcam? Drive it around with a remote controlled toy car? Hi William and all, Yes, this is a wonderfull tool, I use already this kind of UHF-TV CCD-camera in some R/C Flying Drones, look at the UXAV-02 in my web site. The camera with its 2.4 GHz emitter and its own battery have a weight of 110 gr !!! and the signal can be received up to 500 meters. See the top left picture about the CCD camera apparatus with the receiver and the camera ( the top right picture) at : http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/images/uxav02eq.jpg The rectangular black box is the receiver ( the green disk is the UFH antenna ) and the small box on the right of the pict is the flying cam.... The full details of the UXAV ( Unmanned eXperimental Aerial Vehicle ) can be seen at : http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/ardaflt1.htm Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 06:36:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29028; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 06:35:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 06:35:43 -0800 Message-ID: <38C249BF.2A13AD54@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:49:19 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg Subject: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aNyWL2.0.S57.-2dmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14109 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve, If inertia of a body can be modified by a process (i.e by ELF absobtion), many question needs be answerered. For example assume a little stone in deep space awayu from large bodies.(away from galaxies and cluster of them) The only gravitational force exer ted to it would be from remote clustor of galaxies. This would make little acceleration. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 08:39:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA29549; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 08:37:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 08:37:10 -0800 Sender: jack@pop.centurytel.net Message-ID: <38C29B79.3EA3470D@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 17:38:01 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The search for neutrinos ? References: <000001bf8528$c2a8ed60$caefffcc@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"SmX6B.0.9D7.mqemu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14110 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter wrote: Hi Jack, What I have calculated to get a expression for the horizontal force of the little ball in a Cavendish is at my web sites. My sites are under constuction and I am trying to reduce them to one. Here are my three sites http://members.iglou.com/nfred/Ordered.htm ... George T. Gillies in Metrologia 24 (Suppl.) 1-56 (1987) has a section on Dependence of G on Temperature where among other things he writes of Shaw's work in the early 1920's. Shaw's last work on this topic was published in Phys. Rev. 21, 680-691 (1923). ... Hi Peter, I downloaded the above, and I thank you for the information. You are light years ahead of me. Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 13:53:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01736; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 13:53:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 13:53:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 13:53:14 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Torsion Field Generator? In-Reply-To: <200003041152.MAA28576@front6m.grolier.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"isw1z2.0.tQ.JTjmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 4 Mar 2000, Jean-Pierre Lentin wrote: > VortexC-L = a discussion list specially devoted to torsion fields > (very quiet at the moment, but the archives from last year - wherever they > are - have a wealth of information There's a link to VortexC on http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/tors, or go right to http://www.amasci.com/weird/vortex/subc.html , with participation of several Russian > researchers) > Send Subscribe/Unsubscribe commands (in the "subject" line) to > vortexC-L-request@eskimo.com > > Alexander Shpilman website : > http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/ > > Hope this helps > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jean-Pierre Lentin > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 14:20:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA10759; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 14:20:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 14:20:01 -0800 Message-ID: <38C2EB4B.4F9946D1@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 15:18:35 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sunspot effects on human behaviour References: <20000303214209968.AAA172@mail.lcia.com@lizard> <38C07854.73B573FE@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ee4jI1.0.rd2.Gsjmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: snip----------- B Kingsbury ------ D Adams wrote: > Sunspots and Human Behavior > by James Borges > > The recent Solar Maximum gives us a wonderful opportunity to > observe the Sun in action. Borderland Sciences has been > investigating the relationship of the Sun and human behaviour for > many years, and we are quite confident that we can predict > behaviours based on sunspot fluctuations over very short and long > durations within the Solar Cycle of 11 years. Historically, > research has been conducted to link the 11 year cycle of the sun > to changes in human behavior and society. The most famous research > had been done by professor A.L. Tchijevsky, a Russian scientist, > who presented a paper to the American Meteorological Society at > Philadelphia in the late 19th century. He prepared a study of the > history of mass human movement compared to the solar cycle, > beginning with the division of the Solar cycle into four parts: > 1) Minimum sunspot activity; 2) Increasing sunspot activity; > 3) Maximum sunspot activity; 4) Decreasing sunspot activity. > He then divided up the agitation of mass human movements into > five phases: > > 1) Provoking influence of leaders upon masses > > 2) The "exciting" effect of emphasized ideas upon the masses > > 3) The velocity of incitability due to the presence of a single > psychic center > > 4) The extensive areas covered by mass movements > > 5) Integration and individualization of the masses > > By these comparisons he constructed an "Index of Mass Human > Excitability" covering each year from 500 B.C. to 1922 A.D. > He investigated the histories of 72 countries in that period, > noting signs of human unrest such as wars, revolutions, riots, > expeditions and migrations, plus the number of humans involved. > Tchijevsky found that fully 80% of the most significant events > occurred during the years of maximum sunspot activity. He > maintained that the "exciting" period may be explained by an > acute change in the nervous and psychic character of humanity, > which takes place at sunspot maxima. > > Tchijevsky discovered that the solar minimum is the lag period when > repression is tolerated by the masses, as if they lacked the vital > energy to make the needed changes. He found that during the sunspot > maximum, the movement of humans is also at its peak. Tchijevsky's > study is the foundation of sunspot theory on human behavior, and > as Harlan True Stetson, in his book Sunspots and Their Effects > (available from BSRF), stated, "Until, however, someone can arrive > at a more convincing excitability quotient for mass movements than > professor Tchijevsky appears yet to have done, scientists will be > reluctant to subscribe to all the conclusions which he sets forth." > Stetson did acknowledge that the mechanism by which ultraviolet > radiation is absorbed was still a puzzle biologists had to solve. > > The mechanism behind the stimulation of human behavior is still a > mystery, but the theories of Georges Lakhovsky may shed some light. > He considered his book, The Secret of Life (reprinted by BSRF), > the extension of a scientific hypothesis of a new theory of life. > The Sun is one of Earth's primary sources of cosmic radiation. > While the Sun does produce its own radiations, solar winds actually > capture passing cosmic dust and radiation and blow it into the > earth's atmosphere. While it may seem frightening to some, this can > actually be considered the Primal Vibration that sets the cells > vibrating with Vital Force. This is the Prana, that Cosmic Breath, > which is meant to vitalize man, and is the source for our > evolution. > > Dr. George Crile, a distinguished American surgeon, studied the sun > in light of its radiant energy. In the `Preliminary Remarks' to > Lakhovsky's The Secret of Life, Professor d'Arsonval quotes Crile: > "It is clear that radiation produces the electrical current which > operates adaptively the organism as a whole, producing memory, > reason, imagination, emotion, the special senses, secretions, > muscular action, the response to infection, normal growth, and the > growth of benign tumours and cancers, all of which are governed > adaptively by the electric charges that are generated by the short > wave or ionizing radiation in protoplasm." > > He felt that the entire energy system of living beings is > controlled by radiant energy and electrical forces. D'Arsonval > points out that Lakhovsky and Crile found that living cells are > electrical cells functioning as system of generators, inductance > lines, and insulators. The underlying mechanism is the oscillating > circuit. An oscillating circuit is a circuit containing inductance > and capacity, which when supplied energy from an external source, > is set in electrical vibration and oscillates at its natural > frequency. D'Arsonval explains further that a conductor is said to > possess inductance if a current flowing through it causes a > magnetic field to be set up round it. The capacity of a condenser > of an isolated body is a measure of the charge of the quantity of > electricity it is capable of storing. From such a circuit, energy > is readily given off in the form of waves. According to Lakhovsky, > the nucleus of a living cell may be compared to an electrical > oscillating circuit. The nucleus consists of tubular filaments, > chromosomes, mitochondria, made up of insulating material and > filled with a conducting fluid containing all the mineral salts > found in sea water. These filaments are thus comparable to > oscillating circuits endowed with capacity according to a specific > frequency. > > The cosmic radiation from the Sun is a blessing of Vital Force. > As Lakhovsky has postulated, it is the cosmic radiations that give > the cells their vibrant oscillations. While the sunspot maxima is > occurring, the solar flares and the subsequent geo-magnetic > reactions effect the many subtle reactions that take place within > our bodies at the atomic level. It has been theorized that this > has a direct relationship to the metabolism of the body. We know it > is the subtle magnetism of positive and negative charges that pulls > certain particles across membranes in cells to produce energy. > These magnetic exchanges result in the stimulation of enzymes and > the production of energy like ATP. The increase of penetrating > waves during a solar storm causes an excitation in these > electro-chemical reactions within the body. Tchijevsky also > identified correlations between changes in solar magnetic activity > with biological processes. In light of Lakhovsky's theory in his > own words, "...with the aid of elementary analogies, that the cell, > essential organic unit in all living beings, is nothing but an > electromagnetic resonator, capable of emitting and absorbing > radiations of very high frequency." A plausible mechanism is > provided to understanding the stimulating effects the radiation > from the Sun has on human behavior. In an abstract entitled > "Automated Experiment on Macro-fluctuation Monitoring," Bruns A.V. > & Visolimsky B.M. also find a close relationship with the solar > activity and bio-chemical reactions. "Phenomenologically obtained > data could be treated like an effect of the surface (controlled by > solar activity) on the physico-chemical kinetics. This effect was > realized, evidently through the mechanisms close to nuclear > magnetic resonance in geomagnetic field." In another historical > study Suitbert Ertel writes in his article "Synchronous Bursts of > Activity in Independent Cultures; Evidence for Extraterrestrial > Connections" that evidence has been reported suggesting a link > between historical oscillations of scientific creativity and solar > cyclic variation. Eddy's discovery of abnormal secular periods of > solar inactivity (Maunders minimum type) offered the opportunity to > put the present hypothesis to a crucial test. Using time series of > flourish years of creators in science, literature, and painting > (A.D. 600-1800) It was found as expected: > > 1) Cultural flourish curves show marked discontinuities (bursts) > after the onset of secular solar excursions synchronously in > Europe and China; > > 2) During periods of extended solar excursions, bursts of > creativity in painting, literature, and science succeeded one > another with lags of about 10-15 years; > > 3) The reported regularities of cultural output are prominent > throughout with eminent creators. They decrease with ordinary > professionals. The hypothesized extraterrestrial connection of > human culture has thus been strengthened. > > The evidence seems to show that during the maxima of sunspot > activity human behavior is stimulated. > > There is some Russian research that shows an increase in cardiac > problems during sunspot maxima. The solar activity probably sets > off a preexisting condition and no one is suggesting that people > will drop dead in the streets. We could see the stress of solar > activity on the biology of living things as an evolutionary agent > weeding out the old and sick and strengthening those who can > resonate with its radiations. In his `Preliminary remarks to > Lakhovsky's The Secret of Life, the Professor d'Arsonval gives > several examples of research done in the last hundred years that > shows the most malefic effects from solar activity come at the > sunspot minima. He notes from the British Medical Journal, March > 7th & 14th of 1936 that both Colonel C.A. Gill and Dr. Conyers > Morrel found increases in pandemics of deadly diseases during the > period of minimal sunspot activity. In Gill's study he showed that > every pandemic of malaria since sunspot records were taken had > occurred when sunspot numbers were lowest. Similar trends were > observed in East Africa and elsewhere with Yellow fever epidemics > since 1800 occur during the sunspot minima. Dr. Conyers Morrel also > finds that, "...waves of epidemic diseases covering considerable > periods exhibit a very close correspondence with the phases of > sunspot periods. Diphtheria, Typhus, and Dysentery seemed to > prosper when there was an absence of solar activity. We also see > an increase in disease in Solco W. Tromp's study. Without the > stimulation from the Sun human health seems to diminish. The immune > system seems to grow unresponsive during the solar lull and > diseases can more easily gain a foothold in the body. Not only > human health but Life itself seems hampered by the lack of solar > activity. William Hershel wrote in 1801, "It seems probable > analyzing the period between 1650 and 1713, and judging by the > normal yields of wheat, that a scarcity of vegetation occurred > whenever the sun appeared to be free from spots." The depressed > state of metabolism and lack of food in agricultural centers may > have seemed very inviting to the Mongols. Goncharov, in an abstract > on the "Asian Nomadic Invasions and Solar Cycles", said, "From the > 4th to the 16th centuries the Central Asian Steepe was the cradle > of the series of great nomadic tribal invasions into agricultural > regions of Europe, China, and South Asia. Those invasions had > similar features. They arose in middle latitudes and recurred every > 160-220 years -- exactly after solar abatements." > > > References: > > Moore, Carol, Sunspot Cycles and Activist Strategy, > http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/sunspot-article.html > > Lakhovsky, Georges, The Secret of Life, BSRF, 1985 > > Petersen, William, Man, Weather, Sun, John Anderson Publishing > Company, Chicago, 1947 > > Stetson, Harlan True, Sunspots in Action, The Ronald Press Company, > New York, 1947 > > Stetson, Harlan True, Sunspots and Their Effects, McGraw-Hill, > New York, 1937 > > Botezat-Antonescu, L., Predeanu I., "Possible Heliogeophysical > Influence on Human Health in Romania" (Abstract), Relations of > Biological and Physicochemical Processes with Solar Activity and > Other Environmental Factors, 1993 > > Breus T.K., Halberg F. and Cornelissen G., "Effect of the Solar > Activity on the Physiological Rhythms of Human Being" (Abstract), > Relations of Biological and Physicochemical Processes with Solar > Activity and Other Environmental Factors, 1993 > > Ertel, Suitber, Solar Activity and Bursts of Human Creativity, > http://www.knowledge.co.uk/frontiers/sf067p17.html > > Freitas, Robert A., Sunspots and Disease, > http://www.knowledge.co.uk/frontiers/sf034p12.html > > Goncharov, G.G., "Asian Nomads Invasions and Solar Cycles" > (Abstract), Relations of Biological and Physicochemical Processes > with Solar Activity and Other Environmental Factors, 1993 > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 15:49:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05671; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 15:49:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 15:49:19 -0800 Message-ID: <20000305234844.61265.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.134] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sunspot effects on human behaviour Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 15:48:44 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"By2h82.0.SO1.-9lmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: And personally my ouija board and my crystal ball has yet to fail me... :) Timothy... >snip----------- > >B Kingsbury >------ > >D Adams wrote: > > > Sunspots and Human Behavior > > by James Borges > > > > The recent Solar Maximum gives us a wonderful opportunity to > > observe the Sun in action. Borderland Sciences has been > > investigating the relationship of the Sun and human behaviour... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 17:07:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA22506; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:07:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:07:06 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: Ball lightning and other effects Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 16:56:52 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <20000303230210234.AAA187@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"s0o8F.0.XV5.vImmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michael, > > It seems to me that if you take the concept for producing BL > that Naudin is > using, using a microwave to ionize burning carbon, then it might > be possible > to generate electricity using the electrons from the ionized Carbon. Certainly. I have some files on experiments that were done on sparking ultra dilute hydrocarbon gas that relate to this. I will be posting these in the JLN labs vault as soon as I scan them. > Consider this: > > The microwave energy is absorbed by the Carbon until it forms a ball of > lightening which seems to have an affinity for the AC EM source that is > supplying it. It travels toward the source. While the ball is being > supplied EM from the magnetron, it is sustained, but with some materials, > the ball seems to sustain itself for a while longer, even after > the original > source of energy is turned off. > > If a collector plate or ring made of MU metal that was capable > of carrying a > very small AC current of the same voltage and frequency as the microwave, > were between the supplying EM source (magnetron antenna) and the > ball, the > source power could be turned off and the low power to the MU > metal collector > plate could be turned on just before the ball reached the plate or ring. > The ball should contact the plate and dump the electrons into > that circuit > which could have a capacitor of sufficiently large storage capacity to > absorb the energy supplied by the ball without blowing it up. > > The ball itself, which would contain ionized Carbon or whatever material > used, would then be minus some subatomic stuff, and would be, in essence, > transmuted into a lesser element, and deposited onto the plate or ring. > This could be repeated as necessary to supply a steady amount of current > after the capacitor was slowly drained of its charge by a load. This has a sort of generic similarity to the Puthoff patent for utilizing charge clusters, http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05208844__ US5208844: Electronic devices using discrete, contained charged particle bundles and sources of same Discrete, contained charged particle bundles are converted into heat energy for driving a load. In one embodiment the bundles propagate between a cathode and anode in a gap between a pair of solid dielectric members, which gap has a dimension between a pair of facing surfaces of the dielectric members equal approximately to the diameter of a group of such bundles propagating together. The bundles are derived in response to high voltage short duration pulses derived from a modified Blumlein switch. The bundles are periodically derived and converted to current that flows in a circuit having a resonant frequency equal to the frequency of the bundles. In another embodiment the bundles are derived from a cathode including a liquid metal pool in contact with a solid dielectric surface along which the bundles propagate to an x-ray emitting target or an anode that is heated by the bundles, to convert the x-rays into useful emission and/or the heat into useful work. Except of course in this patent the clusters are composed of electrons-- though positive gas ions surround and are accelerated by the charge clusters. Toward the end of the patent he describes an inductive method for generating electric power from the clusters that resembles your idea. > > I don't know if anyone has thought of this approach or if it > even has merit, > but it looks to me like it would be worth investigating as way > to generate > electricity from the atom itself, while in the ball lightening "phase". Also take a look at this patent: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05537009__ US5537009: Transition of a substance to a new state through use of energizer such as RF energy A material such as a gas at an initial pressure below atmospheric is treated with RF energy at a frequency greater than 1 MHz to transition to a glow discharge state and then at increased pressure to a new state at which the average internal temperature is at least an order of magnitude higher than in the glow discharge state but the rate or radiating heat is at least an order of magnitude lower than in the glow discharge state. The new state can be maintained for a period of the order of at least tens of seconds and energy can be extracted through contacting the gas in the new state with a heat conducting body. In variations, the gas pressure need not be below atmospheric, materials in liquid and solid phases can be used in place of the gas, and energizers other than RF energy can be used, such as high-voltage discharges and high-energy particle beams. This patent bears careful attention. He generates a glow discharge at the end of a waveguide, then increases the gas pressure with a massive increase in heat generation in the plasma. I think Chukanov is correct in saying that all that is necessary to gain energy from the ZPF is the combination of a certain mass density and a certain energy density. Then the nuclei interact in some way to bring in ZPE. Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 17:07:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA22456; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:07:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:07:00 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: "Stanislav Golubev" , "Suomen Paratutkimusarkisto" Subject: RE: Torsion Field Generator? Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 16:56:48 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <12530.000304@anna.zaporizhzhe.ua> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"FXXXu1.0.lU5.qImmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I also recommend the article: Models of Polarized States of The Physical Vacuum and Torsion Fields. found at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/torsion1.htm For a slightly more basic treatment. Fred > > Hello Suomen, > > You wrote: > SP> Do anybody know more about the torsion field generator? > Russian scientist > SP> (Akimov & co. , Sphilman, etc. (?) ) are building that, but > how?Is somewhere > SP> more information? Have anywhere published any books what > telling more about > SP> a TF Generator(all books and materials what I can have, > telling about the > SP> Torsion Field theory)? > > SP> Have any European or American scientist doing experiment of > a TF generator? > > You could contact to Alexander Shpilman (sah@kaznet.kz) and forward > your request directly. > > There is also article: "Shipov, Torsion, and Absolute Parallelism" > http://www22.pair.com/csdc/pd2/pd2fre51.htm > > > Best regards, > > Stan Golubev > mailto:stan@anna.zaporizhzhe.ua > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 17:33:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA31532; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:32:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:32:54 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:32:15 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <009301bf8516$338879a0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <009301bf8516$338879a0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA31493 Resent-Message-ID: <"_0MVW.0.bi7.5hmmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:41:39 -0500, Steve Burns wrote: >Robin, >I see your point. I will try to do this. Both current and frequency can be >controlled so maybe there is a minima for the combination. I have done >iterative calculations that suggest there is clearly a zero frequency. I presume that by "zero frequency" you mean a zero mass frequency? >Unfortunately, current electronics can not provide a stable <1Hz frequency >to more than ~9 decimal places. So why not let the mass go negative? > >"Calculations show 31.4A and 0.168197966Hz reduces a nickel atom mass from >9.37E-23 to -1.7E-30 or ~8 orders of magnitude." The actual zero mass frequency should depend on the parameters of the device, so choose substances with different parameters, that shift the frequency up a bit, to a more easily managed value. >The other issue regarding the zero point is how negative mass behaves. If >negative mass falls down, you have a minima. Why would negative gravitational mass fall down? What has a minimum? >If it falls up, you have an "S" >curve inflection point. I'm not sure what you mean by this, i.e. "S" curve in which graph? (What are you plotting against what?) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 22:31:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA18622; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:30:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:30:34 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:31:42 -0600 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN IS NOW AVAILABLE! Resent-Message-ID: <"F5irt1.0.tY4.92rmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14117 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 (480) 657-3722 josephnewman@earthlink.net www.josephnewman.com FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (5 March, 2000) THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN IS NOW AVAILABLE! * The special, collectible energy machine is intended to demonstrate the functionality and operability of the technology. * Each Energy Machine unit will be individually autographed by Inventor Joseph Newman and serially numbered as Special Collectibles. Now is the time to offer a REAL, non-polluting energy alternative to enable everyone on the planet the opportunity to become energy independent! 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Such a technology now exists: *********************************** THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN *********************************** www.josephnewman.com (480) 657-3722 (When you visit www.josephnewman.com --- click on the link at the top of the page to take you to the auction site) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 01:41:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16089; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 01:39:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 01:39:21 -0800 Message-ID: <38C382F6.13455B82@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 02:05:42 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sunspot effects on human behaviour References: <20000305234844.61265.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dc3ST2.0.Dx3.8ptmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: grin.... ;) Timothy Flytch wrote: > And personally my ouija board and my crystal ball has yet to fail me... > :) > Timothy... > > >snip----------- > > > >B Kingsbury > >------ > > > >D Adams wrote: > > > > > Sunspots and Human Behavior > > > by James Borges > > > > > > The recent Solar Maximum gives us a wonderful opportunity to > > > observe the Sun in action. Borderland Sciences has been > > > investigating the relationship of the Sun and human behaviour... > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 02:18:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA24197; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 02:18:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 02:18:24 -0800 Message-ID: <20000306101751.64790.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.173] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN IS NOW AVAILABLE! Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 02:17:51 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"azkNw.0.-v5.mNumu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >* The special, collectible energy machine is intended >to demonstrate the functionality and operability of >the technology. > I love it... this line says it all... it doesn't work so he's selling them as "collectible" that is "intended" to show ou... Sheeeeesh... Joe, you would make a lawyer proud!!! Timothy... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 05:30:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA00822; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 05:30:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 05:30:27 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 08:30:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000401bf8770$146cba20$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <38C249BF.2A13AD54@verisoft.com.tr> Resent-Message-ID: <"V95x1.0.lC.oBxmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi, I am not sure what your question is but De Aquino's position is inertia mass does not change; only gravitational mass changes. Mach's principle states inertia is a result from all gravitational forces in the universe acting on a body. In this context, inertial force is produced by mass gravitational forces. Under this definition, a gravity shield will nullify both gravitational force from a local body of mass and inertial force from the gravitational average of all masses. Since DeAquino takes the absolute value of reduced gravitational mass, negative inertia can not exist. His rational for this is described within his paper. Best- Steve -----Original Message----- From: hamdi ucar [mailto:hamdix@verisoft.com.tr] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 6:49 AM To: freenrg Subject: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification Steve, If inertia of a body can be modified by a process (i.e by ELF absobtion), many question needs be answerered. For example assume a little stone in deep space awayu from large bodies.(away from galaxies and cluster of them) The only gravitational force exerted to it would be from remote clustor of galaxies. This would make little acceleration. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 05:36:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA03045; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 05:36:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 05:36:40 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: DeAquino Correspondence Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 08:36:13 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01bf8770$f0bf9ec0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <01e801bf860e$84816580$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"DR9HP1.0.Ul.dHxmu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, An Engineer I work with has suggested attaching the device to a spring to see if the frequency of oscillation changes. Steve -----Original Message----- From: skot [mailto:skot@fastbid.cc] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 2:19 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence I agree. If a large gravity shield platform were built and all objects set on it became one tenth their weight because the natural attraction between it's ( the objects ) mass and the mass of the earth was reduced, then why would the inertia of the object ( even though it is not inside the platform ) be affected. If it really is shielding gravity then the inertia ( and hense actual mass ) is not really being changed just the percieved mass ( as detected by a scale ). The concept of negative mass would make the most sense as the gravity attraction being reversed into a repulsion, with no actual change of "Mass". If it really is shielding gravity then it would be the same as taking an object halfway to mars where the earth has no effect, yet it has the same mass. On the other hand if it is really reducing mass then an object above the platform would not be affected ( only objects inside ) and "negative mass" would be impossible. I would love to get more data on the experiment: Are objects above the unit affected at all and does the unit feel heavy when shaken from side to side. This would solve the question. scottb -----Original Message----- From: hamdi ucar To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 7:55 AM Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence >Steve, > >I read little late the wonderful news. > >I guess the first industry which use the gravity shielding technology would be semiconductor sector with silicon wafer production on zero gravity rooms which allows to produce defect free crystals. Ironic prediction isn't it ? > >On later postings, it is suggested the inertia is also canceled with the weight, great news for space travel but this seems contradictional to the theory basic. > >> DeAquino acheived the result at his university in Brazil: >> >> Steve, >> Today January 27 , 2000 at 10:15 o'clock AM ( local time )the system-G >> worked. Practical problems are over at least.The apparatus worked well and >> the obtained experimental results confirmed my theoretical predictions. >> Fran De Aquino > >Regards, > >hamdi ucar > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 06:11:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26869; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:08:29 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:08:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38C3BBE1.F5EF012E@microtec.net> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 09:08:33 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification References: <38C249BF.2A13AD54@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-ndSQ3.0.eZ6.Qlxmu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gravity and mass are two disctinct things, of course they depend on both one another, but in a gravity less space i.e at billions of light-years away from any galaxies, your mass would still induce inertia and this inertia would still impede you from going faster than light, we need a technology t o totally cancel out the inertia in order to accelerate faster than light. I suspect that UFO's are now so advanced that the three key technologies for space flight: 1) overunity power source 2) anti-gravity propulsion force 3) inertia cancellation technology I suspect that those technologies are one big system spreaded all around the ship and at first glance you can't tell one from the other. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 06:41:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26148; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:38:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:38:56 -0800 Message-ID: <01fa01bf8779$56fbd340$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:36:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"gomuN3.0.TO6._Bymu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, that would be a very accurate test if you measured the frequency accurately and the spring did not change temperature. An "inertia change-o-meter". It could also be used as a "scale" which would work on any planet. scottb -----Original Message----- From: Steve Burns To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, March 06, 2000 5:36 AM Subject: RE: DeAquino Correspondence >Scott, >An Engineer I work with has suggested attaching the device to a spring to >see if the frequency of oscillation changes. >Steve > >-----Original Message----- >From: skot [mailto:skot@fastbid.cc] >Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 2:19 PM >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence > > >I agree. If a large gravity shield platform were built and >all objects set on it became one tenth their weight because >the natural attraction between it's ( the objects ) mass and >the mass of the earth was reduced, then why would the >inertia of the object ( even though it is not inside the >platform ) be affected. > >If it really is shielding gravity then the inertia ( and >hense actual mass ) is not really being changed just the >percieved mass ( as detected by a scale ). The concept of >negative mass would make the most sense as the gravity >attraction being reversed into a repulsion, with no actual >change of "Mass". > >If it really is shielding gravity then it would be the same >as taking an object halfway to mars where the earth has no >effect, yet it has the same mass. > >On the other hand if it is really reducing mass then an >object above the platform would not be affected ( only >objects inside ) and "negative mass" would be impossible. > >I would love to get more data on the experiment: Are objects >above the unit affected at all and does the unit feel heavy >when shaken from side to side. This would solve the >question. > > scottb > > >-----Original Message----- >From: hamdi ucar >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 7:55 AM >Subject: Re: DeAquino Correspondence > > >>Steve, >> >>I read little late the wonderful news. >> >>I guess the first industry which use the gravity shielding >technology would be semiconductor sector with silicon wafer >production on zero gravity rooms which allows to produce >defect free crystals. Ironic prediction isn't it ? >> >>On later postings, it is suggested the inertia is also >canceled with the weight, great news for space travel but >this seems contradictional to the theory basic. >> >>> DeAquino acheived the result at his university in Brazil: >>> >>> Steve, >>> Today January 27 , 2000 at 10:15 o'clock AM ( local >time )the system-G >>> worked. Practical problems are over at least.The >apparatus worked well and >>> the obtained experimental results confirmed my >theoretical predictions. >>> Fran De Aquino >> >>Regards, >> >>hamdi ucar >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 07:26:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA12200; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 07:26:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 07:26:08 -0800 Message-ID: <38C3CDE8.30B4F71A@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 17:25:28 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification References: <000401bf8770$146cba20$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"j2bTf2.0.U-2.Guymu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve, Sorry, This was an uncompleted draft. I sent it accidentally. I was in trouble, in the case of inertia is also changed. Ok. Anyway you just answered my question. It is far more logical to drop the Mach principle in order to save the inertia. Because inertia is tied one to one to the energy of a body, modifying inert ia would cause large violation of conservation of energy. More than this, from results of my mind experiment on light reflecting between parallel mirrors, it is clearly shown the inertia of the photon (other way to say its momentum) is the natural consequ ence of its energy. I can not imagine any process that can modify the inertia. By contrast the gravity, as we say it, is an interaction, between objects. May we can name it as a "transport". So one can naturally think about altering this transport. by al tering the media, modifying the coupling properties etc. I have a question about the G-system experiment. I am not sure is it necessary or not to absorb the ELF to obtain weight loss. The formula 1.04 needs a current {I) to reduce the gravitational mass. Is the actual power requirement due to unavailability to an lossless material to slowdown the ELF signal? Excessive power dissipation limit the duration of the experiment because of heating. Regards, hamdi ucar Steve Burns wrote: > > Hamdi, > I am not sure what your question is but De Aquino's position is inertia mass > does not change; only gravitational mass changes. Mach's principle states > inertia is a result from all gravitational forces in the universe acting on > a body. In this context, inertial force is produced by mass gravitational > forces. Under this definition, a gravity shield will nullify both > gravitational force from a local body of mass and inertial force from the > gravitational average of all masses. Since DeAquino takes the absolute value > of reduced gravitational mass, negative inertia can not exist. His rational > for this is described within his paper. > Best- > Steve > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 07:47:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07655; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 07:47:03 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 07:47:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:46:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf8783$244db080$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <38C3CDE8.30B4F71A@verisoft.com.tr> Resent-Message-ID: <"uD22u3.0.Pt1.oBzmu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi, System G consists of two parts: 1. Copper conductor dipole antenna elements and powdered iron surrounding medium. 2. Annealed iron surrounding gravity shield. Copper elements radiate ELF EM energy due to the iron power greatly increasing the radiation efficiency. Surrounding shield absorbs the radiated ELF EM energy reducing gravitational mass (weight) of it's atoms. Antenna element ohmic resistance determines power lost as heat. The antenna element diameter is large to reduce ohmic resistance and therefore heat loss. The antenna efficiency is >95% so less than 5% of input power is dissipated as heat. Antenna current defines radiated ELF power density. You need a minimum power density (or antenna current) for the shield atom mass to reduce to zero (described by Eq.1.04). Steve -----Original Message----- From: hamdi ucar [mailto:hamdix@verisoft.com.tr] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 10:25 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification Hi Steve, I have a question about the G-system experiment. I am not sure is it necessary or not to absorb the ELF to obtain weight loss. The formula 1.04 needs a current {I) to reduce the gravitational mass. Is the actual power requirement due to unavailability to an lossless material to slowdown the ELF signal? Excessive power dissipation limit the duration of the experiment because of heating. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 09:40:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA27496; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:39:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:39:06 -0800 Message-ID: <38C3ED18.3FF9@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:38:32 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: The Website has been wiped out! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y4Dc92.0.Jj6.vq-mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We have no more website! Someone has wiped it out. My server can not understand what happened. They are doing everything that they can to solve the problem. I received two untraceable hate mails a few days ago telling me to pull the site off from the internet. I tried to reply to the emails but they had come back to me as undeliverable. It now appears that someone has taken the site down. A couple of you have also expressed concern that you had not received any posts from the list on Saturday or Sunday. It looks like someone is trying to cut the cord on this project. Hopefully my server will figure this out. This happened a few months ago and between my domain server and local connection we managed to fix the problem within a few hours after the problem was noticed. Hopefully it will be the same outcome this time around. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 10:09:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA04323; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:09:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:09:26 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: RE: Ball lightning and other effects Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:21:05 -0500 Message-ID: <20000306182105156.AAA269@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"IlzMK.0.R31.LH_mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred writes: >This has a sort of generic similarity to the Puthoff patent for utilizing >charge clusters, > >http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05208844__ > >US5208844: Electronic devices using discrete, contained charged particle >bundles and sources of same > >Also take a look at this patent: > >http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05537009__ > >US5537009: Transition of a substance to a new state through use of >energizer such as RF energy Thanks for the patent refs Fred, I'll take a close look at them. I don't know if you saw my post on the positive displacement plasma gas pump that I posted to the Vortex Group, but that is one way that I think the ionized particles from two parallel GPD panels could be formed into a vortex structure. I've had several ideas since then to improve the geometries involved in that idea. The magnetron idea could use a bit of engineering too, but I think I could get it to work, and I know in my bones that we could use this plasma to generate usable amounts of electricity. The questions after that would be how much Nitrous Oxide would it produce, and how to deal with it. It wouldn't be any fun at all if we found a great way to do this, and then found that it was more polluting than burning coal. Thanks again, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 10:17:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08145; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:17:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:17:31 -0800 Message-ID: <38C3F64A.43E2@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:17:46 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Website has been wiped out! References: <38C3ED18.3FF9@cyberportal.net> <38C3F028.2D0480FE@globalcrossing.com> <38C3F4F9.3D33@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZGU2_1.0.4_1.xO_mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The site is now repaired. Hopefully someone doesant find a way to hack into the site and cause any real damage. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 10:38:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA16552; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:38:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:38:37 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: Ball lightning and other effects Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:28:24 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20000306182105156.AAA269@mail.lcia.com@lizard> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"rq1SJ.0.X24.ii_mu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michael, > > Thanks for the patent refs Fred, I'll take a close look at them. I don't > know if you saw my post on the positive displacement plasma gas > pump that I > posted to the Vortex Group, Just got on there again recently- -can you resend it to me? but that is one way that I think the ionized > particles from two parallel GPD panels could be formed into a vortex > structure. I've had several ideas since then to improve the geometries > involved in that idea. Actually the nice thing about using parallel electrodes as the Roth patent says is that the glow discharge can then act as an electron accelerator without frying the plates with heavy ions. I'm not sure why you would want to make things more complicated than that. > > The magnetron idea could use a bit of engineering too, but I > think I could > get it to work, and I know in my bones that we could use this plasma to > generate usable amounts of electricity. Definitely. I have some ideas on that but few seem to be focused in this area right now... The questions after > that would be > how much Nitrous Oxide would it produce, and how to deal with it. It > wouldn't be any fun at all if we found a great way to do this, and then > found that it was more polluting than burning coal. I think you would want to go with a semi-evacuated tube with one or two gasses. Nitrogen is interesting for this because it glows for an anomalously long time after excitation, and the energy release is also anomalous. but you couldn't have any O2 in there of course. Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 16:36:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04142; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 16:35:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 16:35:48 -0800 Message-ID: <004e01bf87cc$587e17c0$339b10cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: <000001bf8783$244db080$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> Subject: Re: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:30:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"cJ18z.0.d01.Zx4nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have read Fran DeAquino's paper, but I am not familiar with his reference 7, about the paper linking together thermal radiation to gravitational mass interaction. Does anyone have a copy of this out there, or know of a URL to obtain it? Also, since his equations allow the energy of electromagnetic radiation to negate gravitational mass, what about coupling energy in other ways? He mentions only that the transfer and absorption of energy is sufficient - under certain conditions - to create a gravity negation. If a current passes through a resistive material, it dissipates as heat. Energy is transferred in the process. Of course, heat emanates in the infrared.That would mean higher frequencies, which means more energy is required. What about using inelastic masses in collision for momentum (energy) transfer? How do the equations change then? ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Burns To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 10:46 AM Subject: RE: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification > Hamdi, > System G consists of two parts: > 1. Copper conductor dipole antenna elements and powdered iron surrounding > medium. > 2. Annealed iron surrounding gravity shield. > > Copper elements radiate ELF EM energy due to the iron power greatly > increasing the radiation efficiency. Surrounding shield absorbs the radiated > ELF EM energy reducing gravitational mass (weight) of it's atoms. Antenna > element ohmic resistance determines power lost as heat. The antenna element > diameter is large to reduce ohmic resistance and therefore heat loss. The > antenna efficiency is >95% so less than 5% of input power is dissipated as > heat. Antenna current defines radiated ELF power density. You need a minimum > power density (or antenna current) for the shield atom mass to reduce to > zero (described by Eq.1.04). > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: hamdi ucar [mailto:hamdix@verisoft.com.tr] > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 10:25 AM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification > > Hi Steve, > > I have a question about the G-system experiment. I am not sure is it > necessary or not to absorb the ELF to obtain weight loss. The formula 1.04 > needs a current {I) to reduce the gravitational mass. Is the actual power > requirement due to unavailability to an lossless material to slowdown the > ELF signal? Excessive power dissipation limit the duration of the experiment > because of heating. > > Regards, > > hamdi ucar > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 18:07:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31090; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 18:07:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 18:07:05 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Subject: Re: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:06:19 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000001bf8783$244db080$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> <004e01bf87cc$587e17c0$339b10cf@drosigno> In-Reply-To: <004e01bf87cc$587e17c0$339b10cf@drosigno> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA31053 Resent-Message-ID: <"FVx131.0.hb7.9H6nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:30:24 -0500, David Rosignoli wrote: [snip] >What about using inelastic masses in collision for momentum (energy) >transfer? How do the equations change then? [snip] Or using sound to vibrate the atoms? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 03:47:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA01058; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 03:46:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 03:46:53 -0800 Message-Id: <200003071153.IAA32452@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 23:53:00 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Mass reduction with ELF - need clarification Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <004e01bf87cc$587e17c0$339b10cf@drosigno> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Resent-Message-ID: <"CfM5s.0.NG.jmEnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:30:24 -0500, David Rosignoli wrote: > [snip] > >What about using inelastic masses in collision for momentum (energy) > >transfer? How do the equations change then? > [snip] > Or using sound to vibrate the atoms? > > Regards, > Robin van Spaandonk > Some ancient texts say the "gods" used trumpets to lift heavy stones. Not only in egyptian texts but in Aztec legends too. Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br ------------------------------------------- Get paid to surf the WEB ! Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 ------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 04:17:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA11849; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 04:16:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 04:16:42 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:16:00 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: GDP Potentiometer X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WA_Kb3.0.2v2.gCFnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jean-louis, Been searching for the 220k Ohm potentiometer for my GDP power supply with not much luck. Could you tell me where you got it, how much it cost, catalog number, etc? Many thanks, James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 04:46:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA20521; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 04:46:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 04:46:34 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:46:16 EST Subject: Re: GDP Potentiometer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id EAA20487 Resent-Message-ID: <"4XuUZ3.0.W05.feFnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 07/03/00 13:17:52 Paris, Madrid, finalheaven@angelfire.com a écrit : > Been searching for the 220k Ohm potentiometer for my GDP power supply with > not much luck. Could you tell me where you got it, how much it cost, catalog > number, etc? 22o K ??? this is a common value, you may also use 1 pot of 100 K in serie with a 100 K resistor... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 07:34:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA24524; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:33:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:33:41 -0800 Message-ID: <38C5219E.73788EB3@dove.net.au> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 02:04:54 +1030 From: gsawyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sunspot effects on human behaviour References: <20000305234844.61265.qmail@hotmail.com> <38C382F6.13455B82@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q2j4S.0.z-5.K5Inu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Not only that... But at times of Peak Sunspot Activity, around about every 11 years, Ham operators run around chanting mysterious hymns to some long forgotten god or goddess " CQ DX 6 - CQ DX 6 " they call day and night, in the fervent hope that their prayers will indeed be answered by a voice from afar! ( Am I right Zack ) ;-} Cheers all, Glenville. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 10:37:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA21105; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:35:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:35:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:35:52 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: DeAquino repeats Podkletnov, Pons/Fleichman? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"405Wf.0.f95.AmKnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One thing I haven't seen mentioned: learning from history. How can Fran preserve this discovery against the kinds of things which have happened in the past? I would suggest that the answer is replication. REPLICATION in big bold letters. In my opinion, Cold Fusion went down the wrong path because nobody could replicate the initial findings in those critical first few weeks, and this was because P&F used numerous special techniques which weren't mentioned in their papers (and which might have been held a bit close for financial reasons.) Extremely detailed plans for the ELF experimental device would not guarantee acceptance by the mainstream, but they certainly would aid in "lighting the fire" which takes science by storm and gives the orthodoxy a long-deserved thrashing, (I can't think of any other metaphors to add to the mix!) :) Even tiny bits of secrecy can foul up this kind of discovery. "Antigravity" is not normal science or normal product development. Past mistakes can show the way to avoid failure. The phrase "It can't happen to me" is the worst enemy. A better approach is to assume that it WILL happen unless something is done to prevent it. On the other hand, if the effect is really that easy to demonstrate, then hobbyists everywhere will quickly perform replications whether or not the mainstream takes it seriously. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 10:59:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28877; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:59:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:59:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:59:13 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sunspot effects on human behaviour In-Reply-To: <38C5219E.73788EB3@dove.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-ro3c2.0.537.76Lnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, gsawyer wrote: > Not only that... > > But at times of Peak Sunspot Activity, around about every > 11 years, Ham operators run around chanting mysterious hymns > to some long forgotten god or goddess " CQ DX 6 - CQ DX 6 " > they call day and night, in the fervent hope that their prayers > will indeed be answered by a voice from afar! > > ( Am I right Zack ) ;-} > > Cheers all, > Glenville. > Yes. I am guilty of that myself! As the sunspots push the maximum usable frequency (MUF) above 50 MHz this year, a lot of us will be spending hours listening to noise in the hope of hearing signals on 50 MHz - and occasionally hearing the signals we're looking for! Zack (W9SZ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 11:35:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09881; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:35:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:35:24 -0800 Message-ID: <002501bf886c$6d42c0c0$a0e831d4@x7h3d9> From: "Daniel Winkworth" To: Subject: WARNING !! Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:36:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF886C.6780C100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"0oOBQ.0.5Q2.xdLnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF886C.6780C100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Be Warned !!!! I have been severely hacked by some vindictive person !!!!!! Somebody entered my system and removed the contents of my Windows System = directory, this was done within 10 minuets of logging on to the net ! = causing my system to die ;-( Backup anything important now and make sure your backup is not attached = to the net otherwise there is no point of backing it up ! Watch your backs ! Daniel Winkworth ;-)) ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF886C.6780C100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Be Warned !!!!
 
I have been severely hacked by some = vindictive=20 person !!!!!!
Somebody entered my system and = removed the=20 contents of my Windows System directory, this was done within 10 minuets = of=20 logging on to the net !  causing my system to die ;-(
 
Backup anything important now and make sure your = backup is not=20 attached to the net otherwise there is no point of backing it up = !
 
Watch your backs !
 

Daniel Winkworth ;-))
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF886C.6780C100-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 12:03:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19121; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:03:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:03:39 -0800 Message-ID: <006e01bf886f$cafd2b80$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: WARNING !! Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:00:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006B_01BF882C.BC85FF20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"s4m6G2.0.gg4.Q2Mnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BF882C.BC85FF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Was file sharing turned on? scottb -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Winkworth To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 11:34 AM Subject: WARNING !! =20 =20 Be Warned !!!! =20 I have been severely hacked by some vindictive person !!!!!! Somebody entered my system and removed the contents of my Windows = System directory, this was done within 10 minuets of logging on to the = net ! causing my system to die ;-( =20 Backup anything important now and make sure your backup is not = attached to the net otherwise there is no point of backing it up ! =20 Watch your backs ! =20 =20 Daniel Winkworth ;-)) ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BF882C.BC85FF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Was file sharing turned = on?
 
    = scottb
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Daniel Winkworth <daniel@winkworth.screaming= .net>
To:=20 freenrg-L@eskimo.com = <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
D= ate:=20 Tuesday, March 07, 2000 11:34 AM
Subject: WARNING=20 !!

Be Warned !!!!
 
I have been severely hacked by = some=20 vindictive person !!!!!!
Somebody entered my system and = removed the=20 contents of my Windows System directory, this was done within 10 = minuets of=20 logging on to the net !  causing my system to die = ;-(
 
Backup anything important now and make sure your = backup is=20 not attached to the net otherwise there is no point of backing it up = !
 
Watch your backs !
 

Daniel Winkworth=20 ;-))
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BF882C.BC85FF20-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 12:21:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24868; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:20:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:20:37 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:19:57 EST Subject: Re: DeAquino repeats Podkletnov, Pons/Fleichman? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA24843 Resent-Message-ID: <"pTeT-2.0.T46.KIMnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 07/03/00 19:40:06 Paris, Madrid, billb@eskimo.com a écrit : > One thing I haven't seen mentioned: learning from history. How can Fran > preserve this discovery against the kinds of things which have happened in > the past? I would suggest that the answer is replication. REPLICATION in > big bold letters. > ..... > Extremely detailed plans for the ELF experimental device would not > guarantee acceptance by the mainstream, but they certainly would aid in > "lighting the fire" which takes science by storm and gives the orthodoxy a > long-deserved thrashing, (I can't think of any other metaphors to add to > the mix!) :) > > Even tiny bits of secrecy can foul up this kind of discovery. > Hi William and All, I fully agree with William, we need to replicate a successful device, so, a DETAILLED and REPLICABLE diagram with common materials (part ref, components data sheets,...) is required to conduct a successful test. I shall be very interested to build the De Aquino device and I shall post the all results (with diagrams, pictures and video) on my web site... Does some pictures/videos of a real working device can be found on the web ? Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 12:29:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27333; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:29:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:29:18 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: DeAquino repeats Podkletnov, Pons/Fleichman? Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:29:04 -0500 Message-ID: <005401bf8873$c7d8bd30$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"bQKvm3.0.-g6.UQMnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: List, I plan to start test this weekend. Had coil insulation problems but now resolved. Steve -----Original Message----- From: JNaudin509@aol.com [mailto:JNaudin509@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 3:20 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino repeats Podkletnov, Pons/Fleichman? Dans un courrier daté du 07/03/00 19:40:06 Paris, Madrid, billb@eskimo.com a écrit : > One thing I haven't seen mentioned: learning from history. How can Fran > preserve this discovery against the kinds of things which have happened in > the past? I would suggest that the answer is replication. REPLICATION in > big bold letters. > ..... > Extremely detailed plans for the ELF experimental device would not > guarantee acceptance by the mainstream, but they certainly would aid in > "lighting the fire" which takes science by storm and gives the orthodoxy a > long-deserved thrashing, (I can't think of any other metaphors to add to > the mix!) :) > > Even tiny bits of secrecy can foul up this kind of discovery. > Hi William and All, I fully agree with William, we need to replicate a successful device, so, a DETAILLED and REPLICABLE diagram with common materials (part ref, components data sheets,...) is required to conduct a successful test. I shall be very interested to build the De Aquino device and I shall post the all results (with diagrams, pictures and video) on my web site... Does some pictures/videos of a real working device can be found on the web ? Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 12:50:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01393; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:49:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:49:55 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000307154826.00976c00@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:49:43 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: very off-topic - no tax? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"gKtXA.0.bL.ojMnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i know this has absolutely nothing to do with this list but...i remember somebody mentioning something about never paying taxes again....after filling out some forms? a friend of mine brought it up in a conversation, and i remembered it from here. any help? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 12:57:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA04105; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:57:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:57:09 -0800 Message-ID: <38C57ADE.106787AE@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:55:42 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WARNING !! References: <006e01bf886f$cafd2b80$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E2M-J3.0.101.bqMnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: try using 'ZoneAlarm'.... ? skot wrote: > Was file sharing turned on? scottb > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Winkworth > To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com > Date: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 11:34 AM > Subject: WARNING !!Be Warned !!!! I have been severely > hacked by some vindictive person !!!!!!Somebody entered my > system and removed the contents of my Windows System > directory, this was done within 10 minuets of logging on to > the net ! causing my system to die ;-( Backup anything > important now and make sure your backup is not attached to > the net otherwise there is no point of backing it up ! Watch > your backs ! > > Daniel Winkworth ;-)) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 16:06:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28011; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:06:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:06:16 -0800 Message-ID: <38C59937.6A5FB0F7@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 02:05:11 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino repeats Podkletnov, Pons/Fleichman? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n9MS81.0.Ur6.tbPnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: De Aquino wait for other replication results from somewhere for instance. He do not wish give full report and experiment details before this. But we may ask him to give more detail about the setup, before the confirmation of results. I think this is very crucial for this moment regarding history. William Beaty wrote: > > One thing I haven't seen mentioned: learning from history. How can Fran > preserve this discovery against the kinds of things which have happened in > the past? I would suggest that the answer is replication. REPLICATION in > big bold letters. [snip] Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 16:34:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04030; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:34:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:34:06 -0800 Message-ID: <001701bf8896$277defe0$0384bcd4@x7h3d9> From: "Daniel Winkworth" To: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:35:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF8896.249CF000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"U6EPr2.0.s-.z_Pnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF8896.249CF000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01BF8896.249CF000" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01BF8896.249CF000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable no file sharing was not turned on ! thats what worries me. ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01BF8896.249CF000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
no file sharing was not turned on !
thats what worries me.
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xDzmkBSkZp1KIEkcjZekPrtlc9kBp38FcY/YKFWSBTbRWr6gfVUsjIewKUiyTMqCE+yWL38Cf8IA Pg8rLWeMxpn7eFFCdWVKRX51ozB6re6YEa9zx7SIh8zGuy5oCKn7N7krJ48yiCJryDGIhtBlmYkS ydn3jiSMui4KwpPrS8mWGDU2laqSsIfzV8G8wGp8ERKEVMiibIm661BIqAkl1i8AiBh5C3AMdIRG khOxfIkIgQZeoraURC4ThnWAKMYmkHkLiVmyG8xUGLM3MoLWKjCMxL5gorrhcya5WG/STIS6m5AR +HjBZn/eJJPZ6p03eILRHM4xyGrIy2TV4wb8opKeks8tdhXwbIfuh2s0KnH9ljMjxL8FfXTwMbP9 LHgvqwWXZzt4K17dcZSNoCMjkn2R9zcLbYZ5yyyJyFZl/DKbfIBkkA8mPRNzF04qvdFlaFtqV8x3 MnyNkjcm/DOPFwfiMn8sXYUJAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF8896.249CF000-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 19:18:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20472; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:18:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:18:07 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: RE: Ball lightning and other effects Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:29:41 -0500 Message-ID: <20000308032941562.AAA300@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"pnCca3.0.b_4.kPSnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred< >Just got on there again recently- -can you resend it to me? I'll do better than that. The first version was too quickly drawn, and not complete. I'll give you a better ascii representation, as well as my thought train to the next step of development. >Actually the nice thing about using parallel electrodes as the Roth patent >says is that the glow discharge can then act as an electron accelerator >without frying the plates with heavy ions. I'm not sure why you would want >to make things more complicated than that. What I have in mind is not really all that more complicated. It's more of a logical progression that may lend itself to a better thrusting engine, something that could also be retrofitted to existing aircraft, and if it works, maybe even give us electrostatic fusion. We'll see, but here goes with the explanation. When you look at what JL Naudin has done, you can see that the air is propelled along in a perpendicular path to the winding direction of the outer most set of wires by the static discharge in air of the capacitated charge. The underlying set of wires sets up an undulating of the discharge itself so that it alternates between discharging outwardly and more inwardly. This sets up a vortex motion in the air which moves the air in a given direction as illustrated below. While JL Naudin's panel is horizontal, I'm drawing it vertically because of the ascii limitations. This first drawing is just to identify the parts of construction. | ( | O | ) | O | ( <-----Capacitated discharge location | O | ) | O <---Outer set of wire | ( ^ |---------Underlying set of wire Now the vortex motion is created by undulating or alternating capacitated charge discharges, a vortex is created, and is illustrated by the number 9. This sets up an airflow over the panel that is *unbound* on one side. This is illustrated below, and marked. | ( 9 ^ | O ^ | ) ^ | O ^ | ( 9 ^ ---Airflow | O ^ | ) ^ | O ^ | ( 9 ^ This is well shown by the animations and the smoke wire photos on Jean Louis's page, and as you'll notice in the photo, the smoke is sucked in toward the panel an propelled along. The reported airspeed is 400m/sec by Roth, but he doesn't mention how much air is actually moving that fast. That is because the boundary layers are laminar and slipstreaming over the vortices, so that the farther from the panel you get, the slower the speed of the air. The vortices are acting like very low efficiency paddles in water, rather than getting any kind of positive traction. This is fine, and obviously well enough to propel a fairly large craft with it's own power supply aboard, a radio transmitter and even a camera with a transmitter. Not too bad for the power to weight ratio. However, the actual speed of the craft is limited by this slipstreaming effect, and the actual thickness of the air that is being accelerated to 400m/sec may only be a few nanometers. My idea would be to put two panels next to each other in the hopes that the vortices of each would combine, forming a more "solid" cylindrical shaped air structure that would be larger, and give more thrust. Below is what I'm thinking it might look like, and I include two different approaches. One where the discharges are synced together a), the other when they are synced in opposition b). The combined vortices are designated by an @. | ( @ ( | | O O | | ) @ ) | | O O | | ( @ ( | | O O | | ) @ ) | | O O | | ( @ ( | a) | ( @ ) | | O O | | ) ( | | O O | | ( @ ) | | O O | | ) ( | | O O | | ( @ ) | b) I'm not sure if either of these configurations would work, or if they did, which would be the strongest, but it wouldn't take much to try it and find out. I think that a locking of the panels like this would provide a more positive displacement of air or gas. There is also another possible advantage. By combining the vortices from both panels into one, the resulting vortex would be slipstreaming internally or towards the center of the vortex, and I think that more energy would be maintained within the vortex itself. If the cylinder of air or gas were to hit or impact with the blade of a turbine, for example, it would not only impart the force of the propulsion from the panels, it would also impart the internally stored force as well, as the vortex disintegrated onto the turbine blade. This could be a significant amount of energy. This leads to configuration 3. If you do this with two concentric cylinders, one inside the other, instead of panels, you may create a closed toroid, something similar to what the Spheromak has accomplished. The inner cylinder windings would be on the outside of the cylinder, and the larger cylinder would have the windings on the inside of itself, facing the windings of the inner cylinder. The energetic gas loop would be completely enclosed in the torus, and could be directed at a target as well. This leads to configuration number 4. If the two cylinders did indeed propel a donut shaped cylinder of charged air, then maybe two concentric cones made in a similar fashion might be used to condense the charged toriods into a plasma donut of high enough density to do fusion work. Below is a rough approximation drawing. /\ / O O / \ O O \ / O O / \ O O \ / O O / \ O O \ / O O / \ O O \ Fig. 4 Anyway, you get the idea. A more condensed, possibly plasmatic toroid, in air. If the inner cone were made of a high temp dielectric, then the charged toroid might not destroy it, especially if the gas didn't reach the plaz state until after it was away from the device a bit. The fact that Nitrogen was more interesting from a plasma perspective is new to me, and set me to thinking about all sorts of things. Your tube idea is great, with possibly Hydrogen or Deuterium, or any number of other gases in combination. UV and possibly Xray laser toroids, Cielo Liquido, The Night of 1000 Stars, and other madness, but I'll leave that to the Vortex-C bunch to experiment with. Just the idea that Jean-Louis has made a tiny flying saucer with a camera, is giving the cosmic giggles. The fact that it may have been around for the last 40 years or so, positively sets my fundament aquiver! That's roughly my entire rough life! I'll boggle on that awhile, and I still have yet to look at the two patent refs that you cited, but will do so, soon. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 19:52:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31335; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:52:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:52:23 -0800 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <12.22b1aa5.25f7285b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:51:55 EST Subject: Re: very off-topicnotax. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"h6Xz4.0.Wf7.tvSnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << Hi Rymel, There is profesional man who does this work for living, I just droped him a line if he can help you too? If he'll respond I send you he's email address. MKSB.>> I changed these words like this: off-topicnotax. (So will be harder to trace) << Subj: very off-topicnotax Date: 3/7/00 12:53:34 PM Pacific Standard Time From: rymel@mindspring.com (Rymel) Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com i know this has absolutely nothing to do with this list but...i remember somebody mentioning something about neverpayingtaxesagain....after filling out some forms? a friend of mine brought it up in a conversation, and i remembered it from here. any help? >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 22:06:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13349; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:05:40 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:05:40 -0800 (PST) From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WARNING !! Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 06:05:41 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38c6ed90.170230688@mail.midiowa.net> References: <002501bf886c$6d42c0c0$a0e831d4@x7h3d9> In-Reply-To: <002501bf886c$6d42c0c0$a0e831d4@x7h3d9> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id WAA13289 Resent-Message-ID: <"2AA881.0.GG3.lsUnu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Daniel, On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:36:16 -0000, "Daniel Winkworth" wrote: >Be Warned !!!! > >I have been severely hacked by some vindictive person !!!!!! >Somebody entered my system and removed the contents of my Windows System directory, this was done within 10 minuets of logging on to the net ! causing my system to die ;-( > >Backup anything important now and make sure your backup is not attached to the net otherwise there is no point of backing it up ! > >Watch your backs ! Look up ZoneAlarm on the 'net. It stops this kind of intrusion. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 00:01:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27570; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:00:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:00:46 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: RE: Ball lightning and other effects Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 03:12:26 -0500 Message-ID: <20000308081226406.AAA286@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"xvELh3.0.fk6.fYWnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ahoy There! In my last post, I made some suggestions for GPD panels etc., and gave some geometries. There are more ideas and geometries of course, but I forgot perhaps the most important part. Namely, these are just ideas of mine. I have not tried them or tested them. I will not try them or test them, and many of you probably should not either. If any of these fantasies do turn out to work, then despite the fact that they are tabletop devices that you can build for next to nothing, you could have some very high energy physics and chemistry in your lap in a surprisingly short amount of time. In other words, if you are not already one of the HV nuclear cowboys, these ideas are probably not the type of projects that you should start learning your soldering skills on. I get these crazy ideas when I'm excited about something, and toss them out for the experienced researchers to think about, and maybe even try if they have the time, but in no way am I suggesting that someone try them without the proper safety equipment and training. I myself will not even try these ideas until I get reports from the more qualified people that they have tried them, and I have a chance to get all the exact details on how they managed it. Even then, I might decide that it is too juicy for me to fool with. I know some of you think I'm an old lady, but I don't care. If I found out that anybody got hurt or worse from trying this stuff out, I'm not sure how well I would handle that sort of thing. If you are going to do it, do it right, and if you have any doubts about it, ask everybody you can find until you have all the known issues nailed down. At least then, you will have limited yourself to the truly anomolous surprises, and won't get burned on something mundane. Have fun, and you know the rest of the drill, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 00:28:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA06463; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:27:46 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:27:46 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Pd based Nitrous Oxide Treatment Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 03:39:24 -0500 Message-ID: <20000308083924812.AAA279@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"QLtd-.0.ua1.0yWnu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: SWAMP GAS COULD HELP CLEAN UP POWER PLANTS COLUMBUS, Ohio, March 7, 2000 (ENS) - Ohio State University engineers have found a way to use methane to remove toxic nitric oxide emissions from the stack gases of coal burning power plants. Nitric oxide is a common byproduct of combustion, and cars and fossil-fuel burning power plants are two chief sources of the molecule. Once released, nitric oxide reacts with oxygen to produce nitric acid - a main component of acid rain - and depletes ozone in the upper layers of the stratosphere. "Although the technology exists to reduce nitric oxide emissions, it is not a problem free technology by any stretch of the imagination," said Umit Ozkan, professor of chemical engineering at Ohio State. A new process developed by Ozkan and her graduate students removes up to 100 percent of nitric oxide from stack gases in a safer and less expensive way than available methods. In the new process, published in the journal "Catalysis Today," methane is activated with a palladium catalyst so that it will react with nitric oxide. Under ideal conditions, Ozkan's method removed almost 100 percent of nitric oxide from gas in a laboratory reactor, forming nitrogen, carbon dioxide and water. Methane is cheap and plentiful, arising from decaying matter in landfills and swamps. Palladium is an expensive precious metal, but Ozkan's process requires just a thin coating on the interior surface of a ceramic catalyst chamber. Current methods use ammonia to remove nitric oxide, a process which can release corrosive emissions. Ozkan's team is still working to overcome one hitch: her process does not work as well in the presence of sulfur, a common contaminant in some coal deposits. Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 06:48:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00937; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 06:48:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 06:48:02 -0800 Message-ID: <00bd01bf890d$02a4d400$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 06:45:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BF88C9.F4247FE0"; type="multipart/alternative" Resent-Message-ID: <"FjKrA.0.YE.XWcnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BF88C9.F4247FE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00B8_01BF88C9.F4247FE0" ------=_NextPart_001_00B8_01BF88C9.F4247FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I suspected such! On the radio I heard a Microsoft employee say that if = that is off then you have nothing to worry about. And I thought, there's = no way that windows has no security holes. I was right. Microsoft = vacuums. scottb -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Winkworth To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 4:35 PM Subject: Unidentified subject! =20 =20 no file sharing was not turned on ! thats what worries me. ------=_NextPart_001_00B8_01BF88C9.F4247FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I suspected such! On = the radio I=20 heard a Microsoft employee say that if that is off then you have nothing = to=20 worry about. And I thought, there's no way that windows has no security = holes. I=20 was right. Microsoft vacuums.
 
   =20 scottb
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Daniel Winkworth <daniel@winkworth.screaming= .net>
To:=20 freenrg-L@eskimo.com = <freenrg-L@eskimo.com>
D= ate:=20 Tuesday, March 07, 2000 4:35 PM
Subject: Unidentified=20 subject!

no file sharing was not turned on !
thats what worries me.
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Message-ID: <20000308.153833.-396471.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,9-10,20-27 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"hz1wR2.0.Mj4.wphnu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, When I receive an HTML format e-mail, it takes forever and a day to retrieve (using Juno), and almost as long to process and view it. The same goes for large attachments. I can't speak for everybody, but I know that many members of this list use Juno for e-mail. So would you (meaning anyone contemplating doing either of those things) please try to be considerate and use a demand-based system (i.e., a webpage, person to person e-mail, etc.) for distributing attachments and consider using standard text e-mail? Just a suggestion. About the hacker invasion that was posted: was NetBOIS enabled? The file sharing option is designed for LAN networks and the like, but NetBOIS was designed for use over the internet. A while back someone made reference to a website that will check to see if your computer can be scanned over the internet. I tried this test with NetBOIS turned on and with it turned off. My computer could not be accessed when it was off, but it could while it was on. You can check to see if your computer has it turned off: open the Control Panel, open the network settings, double click on the list item "TCP/IP", go to the "NetBOIS" tab, look to see if the enable box is checked. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- >From Newspaper Headlines: "Women's movement called more broad-based." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 13:10:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24150; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:09:49 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:09:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002a01bf8942$464f1d20$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: WARNING !! and others.... Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:07:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"47H0J2.0.Ev5.F6inu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Outlook and Outlook Express do this by default, many times without the user realizing it. To turn it off in Outlook Express: Select the "Tools | Options" menu Select the "Send" tab Select "Plain Text" under "Mail Sending Format" It will then only send HTML if you are replying to an HTML message. scottb -----Original Message----- From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:51 PM Subject: Re: WARNING !! and others.... >To all, > > When I receive an HTML format e-mail... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 13:29:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28196; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:28:50 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:28:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000c01bf8945$6a44b660$b781bcd4@x7h3d9> From: "Daniel Winkworth" To: Subject: Re: WARNING !! and others.... Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:29:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"cdm8Z.0.Su6.FOinu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NetBois is greyed out but enabled !! how do i turn it off ?? -----Original Message----- From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: 08 March 2000 20:58 Subject: Re: WARNING !! and others.... >To all, > > When I receive an HTML format e-mail, it takes forever and a day to >retrieve (using Juno), and almost as long to process and view it. The >same goes for large attachments. I can't speak for everybody, but I know >that many members of this list use Juno for e-mail. So would you >(meaning anyone contemplating doing either of those things) please try to >be considerate and use a demand-based system (i.e., a webpage, person to >person e-mail, etc.) for distributing attachments and consider using >standard text e-mail? Just a suggestion. > > About the hacker invasion that was posted: was NetBOIS enabled? The >file sharing option is designed for LAN networks and the like, but >NetBOIS was designed for use over the internet. A while back someone >made reference to a website that will check to see if your computer can >be scanned over the internet. I tried this test with NetBOIS turned on >and with it turned off. My computer could not be accessed when it was >off, but it could while it was on. You can check to see if your computer >has it turned off: open the Control Panel, open the network settings, >double click on the list item "TCP/IP", go to the "NetBOIS" tab, look to >see if the enable box is checked. > > -Tom Grimes > >mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com >----------------------------------------- >From Newspaper Headlines: >"Women's movement called more broad-based." > >________________________________________________________________ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 14:12:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA28677; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:12:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:12:32 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:00:39 -0500 Subject: Re: WARNING !! and others.... Message-ID: <20000308.170107.-396471.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,12-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"k13Nj3.0.w_6.F1jnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:29:27 -0000 "Daniel Winkworth" writes: > NetBois is greyed out but enabled !! how do i turn it off ?? Thats a tricky question, hmmm..... The only thing I can think of is that somehow your setup requires NetBIOS to be enabled. Are you connected to any type of network (other than the internet, of course)? Also, check to see if the 32-bit NDIS driver is enabled and see if there are any bindings other than TCP/IP. (You can do this by the following: open control panel, network settings, double click on the list item "Dial-Up adapter", check under the "Driver Types" and "Bindings" tabs) I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, these suggestions are just a shot in the dark. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- >From Newspaper Headlines: "Women's movement called more broad-based." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 14:36:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06541; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:35:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <003301bf894e$59b43560$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: WARNING !! and others.... Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:33:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"pxO9p3.0.5c1.ANjnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It's the same with mine. It may actually be disabled and with sloppy programming the checkbox is still checked. You would have to run that test Tim mentioned to find out. It may be disabled but the hacker got in through another security hole. scottb -----Original Message----- From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 2:11 PM Subject: Re: WARNING !! and others.... >On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:29:27 -0000 "Daniel Winkworth" > writes: >> NetBois is greyed out but enabled !! how do i turn it off ?? > >Thats a tricky question, hmmm..... The only thing I can think of is that >somehow your setup requires NetBIOS to be enabled. Are you connected to >any type of network (other than the internet, of course)? Also, check to >see if the 32-bit NDIS driver is enabled and see if there are any >bindings other than TCP/IP. (You can do this by the following: open >control panel, network settings, double click on the list item "Dial-Up >adapter", check under the "Driver Types" and "Bindings" tabs) I'm not >sure exactly what the problem is, these suggestions are just a shot in >the dark. > > -Tom Grimes > >mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com >----------------------------------------- >From Newspaper Headlines: >"Women's movement called more broad-based." > >___________________________________________________________ _____ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 15:31:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27599; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:31:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:31:40 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WARNING !! and others.... Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 23:31:40 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38c9e267.232909396@mail.midiowa.net> References: <20000308.153833.-396471.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20000308.153833.-396471.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA27475 Resent-Message-ID: <"vtf5J1.0.Yk6.PBknu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Guys, On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:38:23 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > About the hacker invasion that was posted: was NetBOIS enabled? The >file sharing option is designed for LAN networks and the like, but >NetBOIS was designed for use over the internet. A while back someone >made reference to a website that will check to see if your computer can >be scanned over the internet. I tried this test with NetBOIS turned on >and with it turned off. My computer could not be accessed when it was >off, but it could while it was on. You can check to see if your computer >has it turned off: open the Control Panel, open the network settings, >double click on the list item "TCP/IP", go to the "NetBOIS" tab, look to >see if the enable box is checked. Visit: http://grc.com/default.htm to test your system for hacker attacks. Then go to: http://www.zonelabs.com/zonealarm.htm to get free protection from them. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 16:05:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08005; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:05:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:05:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:05:11 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Glowing Adams motor pictures (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF8764.E9E45D40" Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"tqgKe3.0.gy1.zgknu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF8764.E9E45D40 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-ID: See below. I suggested that it was stroboscope effect from overhead fluorescents, but he says the photo was made with daylight from a window. He also says that the effect takes awhile to appear, and if he touches the rotor with a ground wire, it goes away. It is not a glow, since it cannot be seen in total darkness. PS, "Jim" below is not the originator. It's a colleage who doesn't want his name used. Jim repeated the experiment with no results, but his rotor is grounded and the one in the photos is not. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:10:07 -0600 From: Jim Subject: Glowing Adams motor pictures Hi all, I have some information on glowing magnets. This seems to be legit and the pictures do tell the story. Please view http://1dove.com/fe/itglows.html when you have a chance. www.geocities.com/frenrg www.1dove.com/fe ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF8764.E9E45D40-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 17:25:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05015; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:25:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:25:04 -0800 Message-ID: <20000309012429.62362.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.185] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WARNING !! and others.... Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:24:29 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"QIoY23.0.DE1.krlnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: could be the printer... when you set your computer up it wanted to know if you were using the printer direct or through a network... if you said network then the whole computer runs as if on a network... Timothy... >Thats a tricky question, hmmm..... The only thing I can think of is that >somehow your setup requires NetBIOS to be enabled. Are you connected to >any type of network (other than the internet, of course)? Also, check to >see if the 32-bit NDIS driver is enabled and see if there are any >bindings other than TCP/IP. (You can do this by the following: open >control panel, network settings, double click on the list item "Dial-Up >adapter", check under the "Driver Types" and "Bindings" tabs) I'm not >sure exactly what the problem is, these suggestions are just a shot in >the dark. > > -Tom Grimes > >mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com >----------------------------------------- >From Newspaper Headlines: >"Women's movement called more broad-based." > >________________________________________________________________ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 17:27:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05997; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:27:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:27:09 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Glowing Adams motor pictures (fwd) Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:26:31 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <39vdcssgva1g0klbe3sgu3jgpmb88rb4up@4ax.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA05906 Resent-Message-ID: <"ktE4f.0.cT1.itlnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:05:11 -0800 (PST), William Beaty wrote: > >See below. I suggested that it was stroboscope effect from overhead >fluorescents, but he says the photo was made with daylight from a window. >He also says that the effect takes awhile to appear, and if he touches the >rotor with a ground wire, it goes away. It is not a glow, since it cannot >be seen in total darkness. [snip] The "glow" is reflection from the top of the four "lugs" or posts around the edge of the disk. The different colours are due to splitting the light into a spectrum (like a rainbow). Could be scratches on the top of the posts acting as a diffraction grating. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 06:49:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA17926; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:49:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:49:10 -0800 Message-ID: <38C7B9E5.70B3@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:49:09 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tad Johnson CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Markovich Device References: <4.3.0.20000307214609.00ab0c60@mail.dnpt1.occa.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vcGoW3.0._N4.bdxnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tad, I will post this message the the lists and see what the response brings. -BAP Tad Johnson wrote: > > Hey, > > Why hasn't anyone duplicated the Markovich device? Seems > like it also (like the Moray device) produces decent amounts > of usable current at high frequency. > > Tad From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 06:55:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA21040; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:55:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:55:12 -0800 Message-ID: <38C7BB15.5BE1@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:54:13 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: [Fwd: Pd based Nitrous Oxide Treatment] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------630C19BC3F38" Resent-Message-ID: <"-8oN_3.0.b85.Fjxnu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------630C19BC3F38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like these Ohio State University engineers are close to how my fuel cell works when it is in the recharge mode. In my fuel cell methonal can be used to attack the spent (burned) anode material reverting it back to a fuel. -Bruce A. Perreault --------------630C19BC3F38 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (smartlst@mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id DAA15693 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 03:28:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA06465; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:27:48 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:27:48 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Pd based Nitrous Oxide Treatment Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 03:39:24 -0500 Message-ID: <20000308083924812.AAA279@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"QLtd-.0.ua1.0yWnu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com SWAMP GAS COULD HELP CLEAN UP POWER PLANTS COLUMBUS, Ohio, March 7, 2000 (ENS) - Ohio State University engineers have found a way to use methane to remove toxic nitric oxide emissions from the stack gases of coal burning power plants. Nitric oxide is a common byproduct of combustion, and cars and fossil-fuel burning power plants are two chief sources of the molecule. Once released, nitric oxide reacts with oxygen to produce nitric acid - a main component of acid rain - and depletes ozone in the upper layers of the stratosphere. "Although the technology exists to reduce nitric oxide emissions, it is not a problem free technology by any stretch of the imagination," said Umit Ozkan, professor of chemical engineering at Ohio State. A new process developed by Ozkan and her graduate students removes up to 100 percent of nitric oxide from stack gases in a safer and less expensive way than available methods. In the new process, published in the journal "Catalysis Today," methane is activated with a palladium catalyst so that it will react with nitric oxide. Under ideal conditions, Ozkan's method removed almost 100 percent of nitric oxide from gas in a laboratory reactor, forming nitrogen, carbon dioxide and water. Methane is cheap and plentiful, arising from decaying matter in landfills and swamps. Palladium is an expensive precious metal, but Ozkan's process requires just a thin coating on the interior surface of a ceramic catalyst chamber. Current methods use ammonia to remove nitric oxide, a process which can release corrosive emissions. Ozkan's team is still working to overcome one hitch: her process does not work as well in the presence of sulfur, a common contaminant in some coal deposits. Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm --------------630C19BC3F38-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 07:22:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA31290; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:22:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:22:08 -0800 Message-ID: <38C7C1C2.939@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:22:42 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Am I Here? References: <200003090629.RAA24584@turbo.turboweb.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"h_YYa2.0.pe7.V6ynu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Allan Alderson wrote: > > For the last few weeks I assumed I was on the Nu-mailing list but was > actually recieving your posts via C.C. on Bills NRG list. Now I'm here at > last (I hope). Did I miss much? Is there an archive? Yes -> http://www.escribe.com/science/nuenergy/index.html > > Anyway, the (.au) air-mail has arrived. I'm looking at the patent now. The > anode is the negative terminal? - Wow - so it is! It is really working in reverse than what you would expect. This how not been noticed by fuel cell engineers and is what makes this design unique. > > Refering to the patent, Column 5, Line 1: > 'When said invention begins generating electrical energy, the external > ionising source is no longer needed.' > Why not? Does the cell self-ionise? Because the electronic source kicks in and provides the required ionization to generate the ozone. > > I think I read on your web page that this cell is a capture capacitor. > What's the purpose of making the capture capacitor plates? IOW has the old > .pdf file which describes spreading a paste on a fine metal mesh and > baking, been preceeded by this aluminum design? (or have I lost the > plot!?) As stated in the patent, it is not the embodiment that I lay claim to, it is the method. The method will amplify any type of electrolytic cell. > > Column 5, line 7: 'to anode 1 and provides a positive charge to be' > Shouldn't this say: 'to anode 1 and provides a NEGATIVE charge to be' > and > Polarity at the drawing is reversed: 6a = NEGATIVE; 6b = POSITIVE. No... you are confusing the external circuit with the internal current. They are opposite. > > In an earlier post you said: They are classified as "dry cells" because > there is no liquid > electrolyte. > Is KOH + H20 not a liquid? If the seperator is only slightly damp then it is technically a dry cell. This is a plus when it comes to shipping. Wet cells have restrictions as far as shipping is concerned. > > During electrical generation the aluminium corrodes, so what is the > thickness of aluminium expected to be? Would aluminium with a large > surface area perform better? (like that of a heat-sink) The aluminum-air cell is used as one example. I am using much better anode and cathode materials that do not react with the electrolyte. Aluminum corrodes... however, using my method with an aluminum-air cell is a mile-stone leap for this type of cell. > > What are these 'cations' which form on the carbon electrode? > Can they limit the functionality of the cathode? Not with the materials that will be used in the production cell. > > Can the cell be re-charged without replacing the anode? Yes... a typical battery charger can be used. If methonol is added to the anode then very little current is required because most of the energy will come from the reducing reaction. This is a very different type of fuel cell system. This was not mentioned in the patent. This is a gift from me to society. All I am asking that folks on these lists spread the word where they got this information... credit to me is not too much to ask in my humble opinion. > > What are the electrical chararistics of a cell with no ionisation > occuring? (open circuit, short circuit, resistive, etc) It goes dead because there is no longer any oxidant for the fuel. Ozone is very fast and effective... it has an amplifyng effect. Many "free energy" devices worked on this principle im my opinion. This effect has been over-looked. Instead people invent wild stories to account for the huge amounts of energy that have been observed. > > Where can I get some K0H to play with? NaOH (lye) is a good substitute. > > Do I ask too many questions? :-) > > - Allan. No... it keeps the brain fluids functioning. I enjoy the workout. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 07:31:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA04711; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:31:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:31:11 -0800 Message-ID: <38C7C2CB.15EC@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:27:07 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: UNIR2B1@aol.com CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: AquaFuel References: <7c.29787f2.25f81c57@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VrzUy.0.R91.-Eynu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Russ, I do not have an answer here for you. I will pass you're letter to the lists and maybe someone can better help you. Best Regards, Bruce A. Perreault UNIR2B1@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 00-02-10 19:05:36 EST, you write: > > > ...Together we will > >make a difference. > > Thanks for your updates. > > Speaking of making a difference...This is a little off-topic, but may I ask > what info, or sources of info, you might have regarding AquaFuel (combustible > gas produced by an underwater carbon arc)? I'm interested in converting my > 1-ton truck immediately, esp. in view of current petrol prices. Thanks! > > --Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 10:49:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA22003; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:48:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:48:49 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 14:42:41 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: GDP Potentiometer again........ X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RlOD03.0.iN5.G8_nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jean-louis, I think this would be a suitable potentiometer, judging by your circuit diagram. Could you check out the data below and verify that this OK? 250K ohm 2W 1" Single Turn Audio Potentiometer Many thanks, James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 11:45:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12790; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:45:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:45:31 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:44:55 EST Subject: Re: GDP Potentiometer again........ To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA12756 Resent-Message-ID: <"h0SaM1.0.l73.Rz_nu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 09/03/00 19:53:22 Paris, Madrid, finalheaven@angelfire.com a écrit : > I think this would be a suitable potentiometer, judging by your circuit > diagram. Could you check out the data below and verify that this OK? > > > 250K ohm 2W 1" Single Turn Audio Potentiometer > > > Many thanks, > > James O. Batchelor It is now, ok, James, Good experiment and don't forget to test the panel in a well ventiled area or better, put the GDP panel in a closed plastic box. Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 14:14:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08635; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:14:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:14:03 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: AquaFuel Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:13:21 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <0e8gcs4ke3k0au313apm91r1gvgelnuitn@4ax.com> References: <7c.29787f2.25f81c57@aol.com> <38C7C2CB.15EC@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38C7C2CB.15EC@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA08515 Resent-Message-ID: <"hyAQX1.0.o62.g82ou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:27:07 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] >> what info, or sources of info, you might have regarding AquaFuel (combustible [snip] This may be of interest http://home1.gte.net/ibr/ . Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 14:17:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08301; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:16:25 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:16:25 -0800 (PST) Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <38C2414C.4BD8BC50@ctv.es> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:13:16 +0100 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GDP Potentiometer again........ References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"enjQc2.0.Y12.tA2ou"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, Jean , Maybe is very easy to find a 250K 2W pot in France, but is very difficult to obtain in Spain. I think James can have the same trouble. I don't know if you can belive this: is really a hard job to find a 470 Ohm common (not 2W) pot in my province. Maybe the "Buy, use and drop to trash" electronics market is a fact. Vicente. JNaudin509@aol.com escribió: > Dans un courrier daté du 09/03/00 19:53:22 Paris, Madrid, > finalheaven@angelfire.com a écrit : > > > I think this would be a suitable potentiometer, judging by your circuit > > diagram. Could you check out the data below and verify that this OK? > > > > > > 250K ohm 2W 1" Single Turn Audio Potentiometer > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > James O. Batchelor > > It is now, ok, James, > > Good experiment and don't forget to test the panel in a well ventiled area or > better, put the GDP panel in a closed plastic box. > > Best Regards, > > Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 17:47:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA13100; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:47:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:47:07 -0800 Message-ID: <20000310014629.21701.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.120] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Answer to GDP Potentiometer again........ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:46:29 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"vhTDl1.0.bC3.QG5ou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: GDP Potentiometer again........ >Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:13:16 +0100 > >I'm sure that most of you are aware that if you have access to ANY value >resisters and pots, you can custom construct ANY VALUE that you want by >combining them in series and/or parallel. Use the following to determine >values: In series: The total resistance is simply the sum of the individual resistances: R(T)=R(1)+R(2)+..... In parallel: The total resistance is the product of the two resistances divided by their sum: R1 X R2 1 (for 2) R(T)= ------- for 3 or more ------------- R1 + R2 1 1 1 --- + --- + --- R1 R2 R3 ....etc... by using this info, you can save yourself a lot of hassle of looking for certain values. Just make your own! enjoy. tim richardson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 22:16:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA29826; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:16:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:16:14 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <54.1eb0f51.25f9ed08@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:15:36 EST Subject: Re: GDP Potentiometer again........ To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA29804 Resent-Message-ID: <"v1ak82.0.xH7.kC9ou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 09/03/00 23:24:38 Paris, Madrid, vramos@ctv.es a écrit : > Jean , > Maybe is very easy to find a 250K 2W pot in France, but is very difficult to > obtain in Spain. I think James can have the same trouble. Hi Vicente, James and All, The value of the 250 K potentiometer is no really important, it is used for the tuning of the frequency, so you need only to find the good tuning for the GDP panel under tests. So, you may use a 47 K pot with some resistance in series (100 K for instance), the purpose is only to find the good resonant frequency, this frequency must be tuned so as the ions in motion oscillate between each wires in the GDP Panel without filamentary discharges or sparks.... At a certain frequency ( between 4 to 6 kHz ) the panel will glow fully in the dark and you will hear the sound of the ions in motions. Best Regards Jean-Louis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 05:27:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA13283; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:26:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:26:51 -0800 Message-ID: <38C8F83F.223F@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:27:27 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Am I Here? References: <200003101256.XAA15311@turbo.turboweb.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vBamR3.0.SF3.QWFou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Allan Alderson wrote: > > On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:22:42 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > >> Column 5, line 7: 'to anode 1 and provides a positive charge to be' > >> Shouldn't this say: 'to anode 1 and provides a NEGATIVE charge to be' > >> and > >> Polarity at the drawing is reversed: 6a = NEGATIVE; 6b = POSITIVE. > > > > > >No... you are confusing the external circuit with the internal > >current. They are opposite. > [snip] > > Oh! Then I don't understand. There seems to be a discrepancy between the > data sheets. > > On the proprietary sheet which accompanies the patent the aluminium anode > is marked with a (-) and is the NEGATIVE terminal of a 'battery', yet in > the patent on column 5, 'Wire 6a is physically connected to the anode (1) > and provides a POSITIVE charge'. Hence my question. The cell in the patent is electrochemically different than from the proprietary paper. Many electrochemical combinations can be used. My optinum design uses materials that do not degrade. In the aluminum-air cell design used in the proprietary paper the aluminum is the anode and provides the negative charge. It is called the electropositive element because it is positively charged within the electrolyte according to the electrochemistry. The air-cathode provides the external positive charge. It is called the electronegative element. Don't look at me, I did not write these rules. Has this cleared this question up for you? > > So, > Is the anode the NEGATIVE terminal (the Patent is wrong ), or > Does the anode provide a POSITIVE charge (the Proprietary is wrong ), or > Are do you call the NEGATIVE terminal of a battery a POSITIVE charge (in > which case I am wrong)? In the patent the anode provides a POSITIVE charge, the cathode provides a NEGATIVE charge to an electrical load. However, the anode is called the NEGATIVE element, and the cathode is called the postive element when speaking about the internal cell structure. Yes, this is confusing. Even so, this is the correct terminology used in the field of electrochemistry. > > Also, Does the HF electrostatic signal capacitively couple to the cell's > main output? I doubt it. However... the electrostatic energy is converted to electrochemical potential when it converts oxygen to ozone. This energy is made available once the potential electrochemical energy becomes kinetic in the form of electrical current when a load is connected to the cell. There is no fringe science here. My disclosed method provides a unique way to harness the energy of any ionizing source of energy. In my humble opinion it is the breakthrough that "free energy" researchers have sought after for many years... it is the the holy grail of energy. > > P.S. Each time I read the patent and then look closely at what you've said > in recent posts... LIGHTS START COMMING ON! > > - Allan. My posted files, posts, speeches, snail mail, email, personal conversations, etc... can seem contradictory on the surface. However, this patent should clear the air. Once the total picture is shown the "lights" tend to shine more brightly. "There are still many more miles to go before I sleep." ;-) -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 05:43:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA18685; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:43:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:43:44 -0800 Message-ID: <38C8FBC9.2E1E@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:42:33 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Patent Typo. :-( References: <200003101256.XAA15311@turbo.turboweb.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R7dUR.0.pZ4.FmFou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Allan Alderson wrote: > <> > On the proprietary sheet which accompanies the patent the aluminium anode > is marked with a (-)and is the NEGATIVE terminal of a 'battery', yet in > the patent on column 5, 'Wire 6a is physically connected to the anode (1) > and provides a POSITIVE charge'. Hence my question. > > So, > Is the anode the NEGATIVE terminal (the Patent is wrong ), or > Does the anode provide a POSITIVE charge (the Proprietary is wrong ), or > Are do you call the NEGATIVE terminal of a battery a POSITIVE charge (in > which case I am wrong)? OK... now I see the mistake. The patent is wrong. It should state NEGATIVE charge in column 5. When the non-provisional is filed this will be corrected. Thank you guy! -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 05:49:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA19898; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:49:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:49:00 -0800 Message-ID: <38C8FD70.4855@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:49:36 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Am I Here? References: <200003090629.RAA24584@turbo.turboweb.net.au> <38C7C1C2.939@cyberportal.net> <38C7F6C2.6A3CE3B5@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5LhTN1.0.ps4.BrFou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > > > > > Refering to the patent, Column 5, Line 1: > > > 'When said invention begins generating electrical energy, the external > > > ionising source is no longer needed.' > > > Why not? Does the cell self-ionise? > > > > Because the electronic source kicks in and provides the required > > ionization to generate the ozone. > > > > Are you saying that there should be two ionization sources? > One is high powered which gets the thing running and a second > (which you provided a circuit for) which is lower powered and > keeps it going. Something must be used to "prime" the cell. This can be a 12-volt battery to prime a high-voltage power supply. Once going the cell will provide the power for the circuit and the device will be self-sustaining. If radioactive material is used then no external ionizing source is required. The radioactive materials creates the required ozone. It is really a nice system. It is the missing link in the grand energy plan. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 07:34:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA16443; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:34:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:34:29 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:32:57 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Found the right GDP-pot! X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1XwXl.0.l04.4OHou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear all, I found just the right potentiometer for building a GDP power supply! Have a look at http://www.electronics-plus.com - it's a US company who will ship worldwide and have an ideal pot for $5.95 (excl shipping). James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 11:34:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05109; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:29:51 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 11:29:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38C94D40.5AA9@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:30:08 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Am I Here? References: <200003090629.RAA24584@turbo.turboweb.net.au> <38C7C1C2.939@cyberportal.net> <38C7F6C2.6A3CE3B5@globalcrossing.com> <38C8FD70.4855@cyberportal.net> <38C90377.6DB34FE0@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NJn4g1.0.bF1.eqKou"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > <> > The wording in the patent (column 5, line 3) says 'When said > invention begins generating electrical energy, the external > ionizing source is no longer required.' What it should say is > 'When said invention begins generating electrical energy, the > power to continue the ionizing can come from the cell itself'. > > How does that sound? Very good... I will modify the wording to this effect. Thanks for you're feedback! -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 12:43:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA31435; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:42:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:42:44 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:42:03 EST Subject: Need o/u results confirmed To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_e0.21d3d39.25fab81b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"hAjVT.0.4h7.2vLou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_e0.21d3d39.25fab81b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, While waiting for parts on a major project I'm working on, I may have experienced overunity in testing. Please see attached drawing, I will send picture of test fixture when I can get scanner working (lighting strike). The coil generates opposite polarity when device is separated. The coil generates same polarity when device is pulling together. I have verified neutral area as indicated on drawing and my tests indicate less force required to pull apart that the force that is pulling the system together. Coil circuit is closed at all times. This is a very simple test setup and any verifying by list members would be appreciated. Contact me if you have any questions, Email hafonte@aol.com Phone 1-205-699-5364 CST zone --part1_e0.21d3d39.25fab81b_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="LAFONTE.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="LAFONTE.GIF" R0lGODlhKgI3AfcAAAAAAAAA/3t7e5ycnL29vf8AAP97e/+cnP+9vf////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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Mar 2000 00:23:11 -0800 From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: <43.1f46abd.25fb5c3e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 03:22:22 EST Subject: Interesting site To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 55 Resent-Message-ID: <"GNSub2.0.GB2.g9Wou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Motor From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 00:55:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13124; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:55:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:55:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:55:20 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Glowing Adams motor pictures (fwd) In-Reply-To: <39vdcssgva1g0klbe3sgu3jgpmb88rb4up@4ax.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0fmJD3.0.uC3.xdWou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > The "glow" is reflection from the top of the four "lugs" or posts around the > edge of the disk. The different colours are due to splitting the light into > a spectrum (like a rainbow). Could be scratches on the top of the posts > acting as a diffraction grating. Yeah, the photos look like something conventional. Because he said that it takes awhile for it to appear, and because it went away when he touched a ground wire to the rotor, maybe it's something interesting. I was thinking that if it's from fluorescent tube strobing, then the colors would only appear when the motor got very close to 1800 rpm. Touching a wire to the rotor might have caused drag which made the colors spin too fast to be visible. But then he insists that it was daylight in the photo, not fluorescent tubes. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 13:09:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01899; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:08:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:08:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:08:17 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: Undisclosed recipients: ; Subject: view websites via email Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7utMx3.0.AT.9Nhou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Do you or any colleagues have free email accounts but no access to a WWW browser? See below for some options ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Web-to-Email: How to use email to surf the Web If you have email, but are unable to surf the Web, Web-to-Email servers allow you to retrieve information from any public Web site, anywhere in the world. Why Web-to-Email? While the amount of information on the World Wide Web has grown exponentially in the last few years, there is still a large community of Internet users who only have access to email. They cannot surf the Web -- the world's biggest multi-media information resource. Many of these users live in isolated areas or developing countries, and rely on the Internet for communication, access to essential medical, scientific, human rights and business information, and world news. How does it work? Web-to-Email servers are computers which fetch documents from the Web, and send them to the user as email messages, either in plain text or html. To use the system, simply send an email message addressed to one of the Web-to-Email servers listed below. Leave the subject line blank. In the body of the email message, type the URL (a Web address beginning with http://) of the Web page you want to read. In the following example, the message is addressed to www4mail@web.bellanet.org, a Web-to-Email server operated by Bellanet. The page requested, http://www.bellanet.org, is Bellanet's home page. Your email message should look like this: |--------------------------------| | TO: www4mail@web.bellanet.org | | CC: | | BCC: | | SUBJECT: | |________________________________| |GET http://www.bellanet.org | | | | | | | | | | | |--------------------------------| Replace http://www.bellanet.org with the URL of the web page you wish to read. List of Web-to-Email servers: Different server types (www4mail, Getweb, Agora) each have their own set of commands for retrieving documents, but they all perform more or less the same tasks. The table below shows the email address of the Web-to-Email server, and the appropriate command to use to retrieve a Web page. ----------------------------------------------------- WEB-TO-EMAIL LIST OF SERVERS 10-03-00 For more detailed instructions, send an email message to the server of your choice with only the word HELP in the body of the message (leave the subject line blank). The servers listed below are selected from G.E. Boyd's, "List of operational and defunct servers for e-mail only users" http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1236/servers.html For best results, use the server closest to you. ----------------------------------------------------- WWW4MAIL and WWW3MAIL SERVERS Command: GET http://... (omit the GET command to receive the page as an html attachment) ----------------------------------------------------- www4mail@web.bellanet.org (Canada) www4mail@unganisha.idrc.ca (Canada) www4mail@wm.ictp.trieste.it (Italy) www4mail@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de (Germany) wwwmail@bnl.gov http:// only ----------------------------------------------------- GETWEB SERVERS Command: GET http://... ----------------------------------------------------- getweb@usa.healthnet.org (free to medical personnel) getweb@emailfetch.com DOWN SINCE 22MAR99! ----------------------------------------------------- AGORA SERVERS Command: SEND http://... ----------------------------------------------------- agora@dna.affrc.go.jp (Japan) agora@kamakura.mss.co.jp (Japan) agora@capri.mi.mss.co.jp (Japan) agora@uit.no (Norwegian users only) agora@mx.nsu.nsk.su (Russian users only) ----------------------------------------------------- WEBMAIL SERVERS Command: GO http://... ----------------------------------------------------- webmail@www.ucc.ie ---------------------------END----------------------- Important: We have provided basic instructions on how to retrieve a single page of information from the web. Most of the servers listed above can process more complex queries such as on-line searches, requests for multiple documents, and requests directed at FTP sites, Gopher sites, etc. Some servers also allow you to specify an upper limit to the size of the files retrieved (for those who pay by the kilobyte for their Internet access). Others, such as Bellanet's www4mail server, are able to send the page back as an HTML attachment, which is designed to be read in a Web browser such as Lynx, Netscape, or Microsoft Internet Explorer. We highly recommend that you consult the HELP file of the server of your choice. Getweb servers can handle web pages which contain fill-in forms. Most of these servers are operated as a public service, by volunteers. There is no charge for the service. Please restrict your searches to essential information. Net Services in the UK maintains statistics on the efficiency of different Web-to-Email servers. http://www.cix.co.uk/~net-services/mrcool/stats.htm Detailed usage statistics for Bellanet's Web-to-Email server are available at http://web.bellanet.org/www4mail. This Web-to-Email information page is maintained by Katherine Morrow, Communications Officer, Bellanet. Contact me at kmorrow@bellanet.org. For more information: Information on how to use Bellanet's www4mail server can be found at http://www.ictp.trieste.it/~www4mail/ Accessing The Internet By E-mail: Guide to Offline Internet Access. 9th Edition - February 2000 is an authoritative guide to Web-to-Email and other similar services. It was originally written by Bob Rankin, and is now maintained by Gerald E. Boyd. Gerald Boyd's web site describes "How to Do Just About Anything By E-mail." See http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1236/ Advanced help is available from the ACCMAIL discussion group, archived at: http://listserv.aol.com/archives/accmail.html _____________________________________________________________________ Accessing the Internet by Email FAQ _________________________________________________________________ +--------------------------------------------------+ | Accessing The Internet By Email | | Guide to Offline Internet Access | | Version 9.0 - February 21, 2000 | +--------------------------------------------------+ The Rules of The Game --------------------- This document is meant to be both tutorial and practical, so there are lots of actual commands and internet addresses listed herein. You'll notice that when these are included in the text they are indented by several spaces for clarity. Don't include the leading spaces when you try these commands on your own! You'll also see things like "" or "" appearing in this document. Think of these as place holders or variables which must be replaced with an appropriate value. Do NOT include the quotes or brackets in your value unless specifically directed to do so. Most email servers understand only a small set of commands and are not very forgiving if you deviate from what they expect. So include ONLY the specified commands in the Subject or body of your note, leaving off any extraneous lines such as your signature, etc. Unless otherwise specified, you can leave the Subject and/or body of the note empty. If your mail software insists on a Subject or body, just type "XYZZY" or something equally non-sensical. You should also ensure that you have one blank line between the note headers and the body of your note. And do pay attention to upper/lower case in directory and file names when using email servers. It's almost always important. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* SPECIAL NOTE: The email servers listed in this guide are for the most part operated by kind-hearted volunteers at companies or universities. If you abuse (or over-use) the servers, there's a very good chance they will be shut down permanently. This actually happened to several of the email servers recently, so treat them with respect. If you have direct Internet access, let others who are less fortunate use the email servers. Try to limit your data transfers to one megabyte per day. Don't swamp the servers with many requests at a time. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* USENET BY EMAIL ---------------- Usenet is a collection of over 52000 discussion groups on every topic imaginable. In order to get a proper start and avoid embarrasing yourself needlessly, you must read the Usenet new users intro document, which can be obtained by sending email to: mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu and include this line in the BODY of the note: send usenet/news.answers/news-newusers-intro To get a listing of Usenet newsgroups, add these commands to your note: send usenet/news.answers/active-newsgroups/part1 (also get part2 & part3) send usenet/news.answers/alt-hierarchies/part1 (also get part2 & part3) To get the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) file(s) for a given newsgroup, try a command like this: index usenet/ (Substitute dots for dashes if they appear in the newsgroup name.) If any FAQ files are available, they will be listed in the returned info, and you can request them with a command like: send usenet// Reading Usenet Newsgroups ------------------------- The gophermail service discussed earlier in this guide that was used to to read and contribute to Usenet newsgroups by email is DEFUNCT as of January 2000. NOTE: You can also get Usenet postings from several webmail servers listed in the WORLD-WIDE WEB BY EMAIL section later in this document. There are four approaches: 1) Use a webmail server to access a gopher site which carries Usenet. NONE CURRENTLY KNOWN... 2) Look for an Agora server with a "Y" in the "Usenet Access" column and send a command like this in the message body: send news: 3) Use a webmail server to retrieve specified web pages to search at Deja.com which archives Usenet groups daily. Find Forum -- http://w.deja.com/home_if.shtml Browse Group -- http://w.deja.com/home_bg.shtml Power Browse Group -- http://w.deja.com/home_ps.shtml 4) Use the Sonador Usenet by email server. To get the help file send blank email to autonews_info@sonador.com. NOTE: Russian users can use the Relcom Usenet News mailserver. Send the word "help" in the body of a message to newsserv@litech.net Note: See the "WWW By Email" section below for a list of "getweb" "agora" and "www4mail" servers. With a little luck, you'll get a list of recent postings to the newsgroup, and then you can retrieve the individual postings by replying to the message from the Agora server. Make sure not to change the subject line of the reply message, and just put the number of the posting you want in the message BODY. Posting In Usenet Newsgroups ---------------------------- If you decide to make a post of your own, here are two methods to try: METHOD 1: Mail the text of your post to: group.name@newsgw.rrze.uni-erlangen.de mail2news-YYYYMMDD-group.name@anon.lcs.mit.edu group.name@berlioz.crs4.it group.name@comlab.ox.ac.uk group.name@pubnews.demon.co.uk outnews+netnews.group.name@andrew.cmu.edu no.group.name@news.uninett.no So to post to news.newusers.questions, you might send your message to: news.newusers.questions@newsgw.rrze.uni-erlangen.de Be sure to include an appropriate Subject: line, and include your real name and email address at the close of your note. Substitute today's date instead of YYMMDD and the newsgroup name instead of "group.name" in the address. For more information, send to mail2news@anon.lcs.mit.edu with Subject: help METHOD 2: Mail the text of your anonymous post to: mail2news@anon.lcs.mit.edu - Subject: help mail2news@news.demon.co.uk - mail2news@replay.com - see remailer@replay.com Note on Usenet Posting ---------------------- Use a webmail server to fetch Don Kitchen's helpful document at "http://www.sabotage.org/~don/mail2news.html" (See "World-Wide Web By Email" below for help with this). It contains tips on finding out if a mail server supports your newsgroup, keeping your address away from spammers, and an updated list of mail-to-news servers. Searching For Usenet Newsgroups ------------------------------- Don't know the name of the newsgroup? To search for Usenet groups about "pets", for example, send email to an Agora or www4mail server (see WWW section) with this line in the message BODY: send http://alabanza.com/kabacoff/Inter-Links/cgi/news.cgi?pets WORLD-WIDE WEB (WWW) BY EMAIL ----------------------------- The World-Wide Web is the premier Internet navigational tool - a hypertext and multimedia system that lets you hop around the Net, read documents, and access images & sounds linked to a source. Have you ever heard someone say, "Wow, check out the cool stuff at http://www.somewhere.com/blah.html" and wondered what in the world they were talking about? Now you can retrieve WWW documents by email using an Agora server. All you need to know is the Uniform Resource Locator (or URL, that long ugly string starting with "http:", "gopher:", or "ftp:") which defines the address of the document, and you can retrieve it by sending email to one of: Agora Server Address Location Usenet Access? --------------------------- -------------------- -------------- agora@dna.affrc.go.jp (Japan) Y agora@kamakura.mss.co.jp (Japan) Y agora@www.eng.dmu.ac.uk (DMU.UK users ONLY) agora@uit.no (Norwegian users ONLY) agora@mx.nsu.nsk.su (NSU.RU users ONLY) In the body of your note include one of these lines, replacing "" with the actual URL specification. send rsend (to override your return address) This will send you back the document you requested, with a list of all the documents referenced within, so that you may make further requests. To try WWW by email send the following commands to an Agora server: help send http://www.w3.org In a few minutes you should receive the Agora help file and the "W3C WWW Welcome Consortium Page" which will include references to other Web documents you'll want to explore. Please read the Agora help file, as it contains answers to many commonly asked questions! THERE ARE SOME OTHER webmail servers listed below, which run software other than Agora. They work pretty much the same, but it's a good idea to request the help file for the server you decide to use. Note: The GetWeb servers below can handle web pages which contain fill-in forms. Other webmail servers do not provide this ability. Address Syntax Comments ----------------------- ---------- ---------------------------- getweb@emailfetch.com GET intermittent since Mar99 getweb@usa.healthnet.org GET webmail@www.ucc.ie GO wwwfmail_pro@wwwfetch.com Fee-based Use 'Subject: info' for help Note: The webmail servers are sometimes unavailable for days (or weeks) at a time without explanation. If you get an error or no reply, please try another address or retry in a day or so. THE NEW WWW4MAIL servers (combine functions of agora, getweb, and new browser email integration): Address Comments ----------------------------- ------------------------------ www4mail@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de send help in body of a message www4mail@unganisha.idrc.ca send help in body of a message www4mail@web.bellanet.org send help in body of a message www4mail@wm.ictp.trieste.it send help in body of a message If you want an up-to-date listing, then look at: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1236/servers.html WWW SEARCH BY EMAIL ------------------- There's a lot of great stuff out on the Web, but how do you find it? Well, just like Archie and Veronica help you search FTP and gopher sites, there are several search engines that have been developed to search for information on the Web. But until now, you had to have direct Internet access to use them. After a bit of research, I have found that it is possible to use several WWW search mechanisms by email. Here are some sample queries that you can use to search via Lycos and WebCrawler. Any of these lines can be sent to an Agora server (see above) to perform a search. If you're not interested in frogs, then by all means feel free to use your own keywords. For Lycos searches you must separate words with a "+" sign. All searches are exact. http://www.lycos.com/srch/?lpv=1&loc=searchhp&query=frog+dissection For WebCrawler searches you must separate words with a "+" sign. All searches are exact. http://www.webcrawler.com/cgi-bin/WebQuery?searchText=frog+dissection Another way to access search engines is to send a message to one of the GETWEB servers (see list above) with a line like this in the message body: SEARCH Replace "engine" with YAHOO, ALTAVISTA, or INFOSEEK, and use your own search words. Here's an example: SEARCH YAHOO consumer protection MAILING LISTS ------------- There are literally thousands of discussion groups that stay in touch using email based systems known as "mailing lists". People interested in a topic "subscribe" to a "list" and then send and receive postings by email. For information concerning new lists, send email to: LISTSERV@HYPATIA.CS.WISC.EDU In the body of your note include only this command: INFO NEW-LIST Finding a Mailing List ---------------------- To find out about mailing lists that are relevant to your interests, send email to an webmail server and retrieve this web page: http://www.liszt.com/ New in These Parts? ------------------- If you're new to the Internet, I suggest you subscribe to the HELP-NET list where you're likely to find answers to your questions. Send the command: SUBSCRIBE HELP-NET in the BODY of a note to LISTSERV@CRCVMS.UNL.EDU, then email your questions to the list address: HELP-NET@CRCVMS.UNL.EDU FINGER BY EMAIL --------------- "Finger" is a utility that returns information about another user. Usually it's just boring stuff like last logon, etc., but sometimes people put fun or useful information in their finger replies. To try out finger, send this line (in the message BODY) to a webmail server: send http://www.mit.edu:8001/finger? Use one of the email addresses below instead of ... nasanews@space.mit.edu coke@cs.cmu.edu quake@gldfs.cr.usgs.gov copi@oddjob.uchicago.edu "DIRECTORY ASSISTANCE" BY EMAIL -------------------------------- There is an email address lookup database at MIT which keeps tabs on everyone who has posted a message on Usenet. Send email to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu and enter only this line in the BODY of the note: send usenet-addresses/ Specify as much information as you can about the person (lastname, firstname, userid, site, etc.) to limit the amount of information that is returned to you. Here's a sample query to find the address of someone you think may be at Harvard University: send usenet-addresses/Jane Doe Harvard WHOIS BY EMAIL -------------- WHOIS is another tool that can be used to Search for domain name; NIC handle; host IP or lastname, firstname. The default action for Whois, unless directed otherwise with a keyword (e.g. "domain root"), is to do a very broad search, looking for matches in many fields: handle, name, or hostname and finding all record types. Let's say we want to find someone named Gerald Boyd (a noted email personality). Our Whois query will be addressed to a webmail server and will contain only this one long line: http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois? STRING=name+boyd%2C+gerald&STRING=Search Whois then shows the results in one of two ways: as a full, detailed display for a single match (with possible subdisplay), or as one- or two-line summaries for multiple matches. If all goes well, you'll receive a list something like this (not me!): Boyd, Gerald GB8307 gerald@PF1HELP.COM Performance Function One, Inc. 6504 GreyHawk Waye, Inc. 770-413-9456A 30087 Record last updated on 28-Jan-1999. Database last updated on 20-Feb-2000 12:44:21 EST. TELNET BY EMAIL --------------- Sorry, there is no way to access TELNET sites by email. A FEW NET-GOODIES ----------------- Here are some other interesting things you can do by email. (Some of them are accessible only by email!) * ANONYMOUS EMAIL An "anon server" provides a front for sending mail messages and posting to Usenet newsgroups anonymously, should the need ever arise. To get instructions send email to help@nym.alias.net or remailer@anon.efga.org with a Subject: remailer-help * ASK DR. MATH Have a math question? Dr. Math answers questions from K-12 students and their teachers about Mathematics. Write to dr.math@forum.swarthmore.edu * ASK-A-GEOLOGIST Send your earth-shattering questions to ask-a-geologist@octopus.wr.usgs.gov and a US Geological Service scientist will try to help. * ASK-A-TECH Send your computer hardware or software support questions to helpdesk@ask-a-tech.org and this non-profit organization will try to answer your question. * BIBLE SEARCH Search the King James version of the Bible. Examples below can be sent to an Agora server. Use "+" to specify multiple words; prefix proper names with "%23"; add "&PHRASE=ON" to find a phrase. send http://estragon.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/KJV?title=&word=angel+%23Mary send http://estragon.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/KJV?title=&word=fig+tree&PHRASE=ON * CANCER DATABASE To access the National Cancer Institute's database, send email to cancernet@icicb.nci.nih.gov with "help" or "spanish" in the message body. * CHECK YOUR EMAIL CONNECTION The following are all autoresponder addresses that you can use to test if your email is working. You send a blank message to the address shown and in a few minutes an autoresponse is received. echo@seattlelab.com test-courrier@sogi.com (in French) echo@telcomplus.net test@alphanet.ch echo@tu-berlin.de test@mega.bw internet@gurus.com test@netsydney.com ping@stamper.itconsult.co.uk * COUNTRY CODES The International Email accessibility FAQ is retrievable by email. Send email to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu and enter only this line in the BODY of the note: send usenet/news.answers/mail/country-codes Web site: http://www.nsrc.org/oclb Stumped by those 2-letter country codes in Internet addresses? Send email to address-codes@newbie.net for an explanation. * CURRENCY CONVERSION You can get foreign exchange rates for the U.S. dollar and other currencies by sending this URL to an Agora or ww4mail server: send http://cnnfn.com/markets/currencies.html * DAILY BRIEF The Daily Brief is a free 4-6 page news summary sent out by email every weekday morning. Included in the Brief are summaries of major news events that have occurred during the 24 hours prior to distribution. To subscribe, send email to: subscribe-db@incinc.net Web site: http://www.incinc.net/db/index.html * EMAIL TO SNAIL-MAIL Need to get a message to someone in Britain who doesn't have email? Send it to PaperMail! For full details on this fee-based service, send email to info@papermail.win-uk.net * EMOTIONAL SUPPORT There's a suicide helpline accessible by email. Send your message to jo@samaritans.org -- No syntax, they have humans! Also any mail to care@netservs.com returns a listing of hundreds of emotional support resources on the Internet. * FINANCIAL AID FAQ A comprehensive guide to higher education financial aid. Send email to a web to mail server and retrieve this web page: send http://www.finaid.org/questions/faq.phtml * FINDING EMAIL ADDRESSES For a guide to finding someone's email addresses. Send email to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu and enter only this line in the BODY of the note: send usenet/news.answers/finding-addresses * FREE HOME PAGE BY EMAIL (For German residents only) InetWire offers free non-commercial homepages with up to 500KB of space. Make a zip file with index.htm being the home page, put a URL something like "http://inetw.com/home/myname" in the Subject line and then send your zip file as an ATTACHMENT to attach@inetw.com. (If your email program doesn't support file attachments, you're out of luck.) * FTPMAIL/WEBMAIL SERVER STATUS Is your favorite FTPmail/Agora/GetWeb site overloaded or down? Find out by sending the "get file stats.txt" command to mailserv@netservs.com * GENE SPLICING AND SEQUENCE ANALYSIS GRAIL is a suite of tools designed to provide analysis and putative annotation of DNA sequences both interactively and through the use of automated computation. To learn how to use this service, send email to grail@ornl.gov with the word "help" in the body of the message. * GERMAN <-> ENGLISH TRANSLATION SERVICE The LEO translation service is now available by email, by sending to translate@leo.org. The helpfile at http://www.leo.org/dict/mail.html can be retrieved via webmail. * INTERNET MOVIE DATABASE Get tons of info on movies, actors, and directors. Send email to movie@imdb.com with HELP in the subject line. * INTERNET TIMELINE To learn the history of the Internet from 1950 to 1998, send blank email to timeline@hobbes.mitre.org * THE INTERNET TOURBUS Take a virtual tour of the Internet - hop on The Internet TourBus! You'll receive a short mailing twice a week highlighting fun and interesting sites on the Internet. It's absolutely free, and you can join 80,000 others by sending SUBSCRIBE TOURBUS Firstname Lastname in the BODY of a message to "LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM". * ISPs BY AREA CODE For a list of Internet Service Providers in your area code, send this line to an Agora server: http://thelist.iworld.com/areacode/???.html (where ???=your area code) * LANGUAGE TRANSLATION BY EMAIL Send an email as usual to a foreign language colleague in your native tongue. In the "Cc:" line, send a carbon copy of the message to the Universal T-mail Translator. The way you format the address will determine how the message is translated. Cc: (Original language)-(Final translation)@T-Mail.com English (en or an), French (fr), German (ge or de), Italian (it), Spanish (sp or es), Portuguese (pt or po) So English to French translation would be en-fr@t-mail.com * LEARN TO SPEAK GEEK Get BABEL, a glossary of computer abbreviations and acronyms. Use a webmail server to retrieve any of these files. http://www.geocities.com/ikind_babel/babel/babel.html [206K] http://www.geocities.com/ikind_babel/babel/babelhtm.zip [63K] http://www.geocities.com/ikind_babel/babel/babeltxt.zip [61K] * MEDICAL INFORMATION BY EMAIL Send a blank email message to hnet@usa.healthnet.org to receive a FAQ which lists locations for medical information that can be accessed by email methods. * MICROSOFT KNOWLEDGE BASE The Microsoft knowledge base has articles that can be retrieved by email. For the index, send email to mshelp@microsoft.com with Subject: index * MORE WORD FUN! The wordserver at wsmith@wordsmith.org will serve up A.Word.A.Day, Dictionary by Mail, Thesaurus by Mail, Acronym by Mail and Anagram by Mail. Send blank email for the help file. Merriam-Webster dictionary offers the word of the day -- To subscribe, send mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.WEBSTER.M-W.COM with the command SUBSCRIBE MW-WOD [your name]. * MORTGAGE/LOAN CALCULATOR To calculate your monthly loan payment, send this line to an Agora server: http://www.interest.com/hugh/calc/simple.cgi?amt=100000&int=8.00&yrs=30 (Change the values for principle, interest and term as appropriate.) * PLAY GAMES BY EMAIL Yoyodyne specializes in online games. Send blank email to win@yoyo.com You can also play games via the PBeM Server, for info, send email to pbmserv@gamerz.net with Subject: help * SCOUT REPORT ...is a weekly featuring announcements of new and interesting resources on the Internet. To subscribe, send email to listserv@cs.wisc.edu with "Subscribe scout-report Your Name" in the body. * SENDING A FAX BY EMAIL The TPC.INT "Remote Printing Experiment" is the grandfather of Internet faxing services. Send email to tpcfaq@info.tpc.int with no subject and "help" in the body. For a list of country phone numbers served by this service, send email to tpccover@info.tpc.int with no subject and nothing in the body. You can also get the FAX FAQ via electronic mail. Send email to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu and enter only this line in the BODY of the note: send usenet/news.answers/internet-services/fax-faq * SENDING MAIL TO VARIOUS NETWORKS For a guide to communicating with people on the various networks that make up the Internet, send email to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu and enter only this line in the BODY of the note: send usenet/news.answers/mail/inter-network-guide * SHAREWARE The MS-News mailing list is used to announce new files uploaded to Simtel.Net. To subscribe, send email to listserv@simtel.net with this command in the body of your message: add ms-news * STATLIB A system for distributing statistical software, datasets, and information by electronic mail, FTP, and WWW. To get the index, send email to statlib@lib.stat.cmu.edu with the one line message "send index". * STOCK MARKET QUOTE To get a stock market quote, send this line to an Agora server: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=t&s=xxxx where xxxx is the stock market symbol. * TRACK UPS PACKAGES You can track your UPS packages now thru email. Send an email to totaltrack@ups.com and in the subject or the body place the complete tracking number. * THE USENET ORACLE A cooperative, anonymous and humorous exchange of questions and answers. Send email to oracle@cs.indiana.edu for more information. * U.S. CONGRESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE You can contact the President (president@whitehouse.gov) or Vice President (vice_president@whitehouse.gov). * OTHER SOURCES OF US GOV'T INFO: Send email to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu and enter only these lines in the BODY of the note: send usenet/news.answers/us-govt-net-pointers/part1 send usenet/news.answers/us-govt-net-pointers/part2 * VIRTUAL PIZZA! Order an electronic pizza by email. Send email to "pizza@ecst.csuchico.edu" with a subject of "pizza help" for details. * VIRUS PROTECTION SOFTWARE F-Prot, one of the top PC virus scanners can be requested by email. To get the current version (uuencoded) send email to f-prot-update@complex.is with this message body: send-as: uue * WEBSTER DICTIONARY LOOKUP To retrieve the definition of a word, send this line to an Agora server: send http://c.gp.cs.cmu.edu:5103/prog/webster?whatever * FOR FURTHER READING For other things you can do with email, send blank email to email4u@wireworm.com For more details on using web search engines by email use a web-to-mail server to get this file send ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/gb/gboyd/wsintro.faq SOMETHING MISSING? ------------------ This file should be somewhere between 1300 and 1440 lines of text, and about 58KB in size. If the file you have is much smaller, or says something like "part 2 of 2" near the top, you're missing something. Most likely, that's because your mail system has file size quotas that prevented part 1 from reaching you. Here's the solution: To get the file in multiple chunks, send to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu and enter only these lines in the BODY of the note: size 25000 send usenet/news.answers/internet-services/access-via-email The mail server will break up the file into chunks of 25000 bytes and send them in separate messages. You can change "25000" to another number if it suits your needs. CONTACTING THE AUTHOR --------------------- I welcome your feedback on this guide and can be reached at the following addresses. Send corrections, ideas, suggestions and comments by email. I'll try to include any new services in future editions of this guide. Email : gboyd@netcom.com Web : http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1236/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright (c) 1999-2000, Gerald E. Boyd gboyd@netcom.com All rights reserved. Permission is granted to duplicate and distribute copies of this document provided the copyright notice and this permission notice are preserved on all copies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ [ By Archive-name | By Author | By Category | By Newsgroup ] [ Home | Latest Updates | Archive Stats | Search | Usenet References | Help ] _________________________________________________________________ Send corrections/additions to the FAQ Maintainer: Gerald E. Boyd Last Update March 09 2000 @ 03:34 AM From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 20:21:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14329; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:21:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:21:26 -0800 Message-ID: <38CB1B5B.CD2@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:21:47 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Trouble is brewing here References: <38CB1929.5667@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"muQRy1.0.nV3.5jnou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I got a letter today from John Moray... it is not good. His certified letter will be scanned and posted when I get the chance. To make matters worse a foreign agent has been sent to my home and lab to over see my work. I kid you not. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 00:45:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA05880; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:44:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:44:07 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <4f.19d0ade.25fcb2b1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 03:43:29 EST Subject: The System-G from Fran De Aquino To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"1YYrz.0.nR1.MZrou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, I have updated my web site with a very interesting document about the Fran De Aquino Antigravity Shielding experiment : << The System-G experiment has been performed successfuly by Fran De Aquino on January 27th, 2000 at the Physics Department of Maranhao State University in Brazil. Fran De Aquino has published a paper ( released on January 30th, 2000 ) :" Gravitation and Electromagnetism: Correlation and Grand Unification ". This paper has demonstrated that a weight reduction of the System-G apparatus has been observed and experimentaly verified at room temperature. The experiment has also shown an important gravitational phenomenon; when System-G has been energized, it has been observed a GRAVITATIONAL SHIELDING EFFECT : the weight of everything inside of the annealed iron tube ( iron powder, ELF antenna,... ) has been nullified, the scale has just shown the weight of the steel tube with the annealed iron. >> You will find also an excellent article wrote by Steve Burns : " Gravitational weight reduction with ELF EM radiation " If you are interested by this : http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/systemg/index.html I am grateful to Steve Burns and Fran De Aquino for their help about this fascinating experiment in phase of replication by myself. I encourage all experimenters to replicate the System-G experiment, which, I hope will soon open the frontier of space exploration... Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Main Web site: http://go.to/jlnlabs eGroup:http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 06:05:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15194; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 06:05:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 06:05:07 -0800 Message-ID: <013701bf8c2b$f4359d60$070c9fca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: "freenrg L" References: Subject: Re: DeAquino Experiment Info Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:04:46 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lmm8f2.0.Dj3.IGwou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just checked: lights don't get 'lighter'. I tried overpowering a fluorescent light bulb (2300 Vac 0.5 A at ~50 Hz) No detectable change in the mass. This is something I've wondered about for a long time, as I thought perhaps ion movement might be mass altering. This evening I had time to set up and check this. I've also tried radiating 50 Hz into chunks of steel and differing types of magnets, without any success. Hope we can find some sort of handle on this. It appears to me that DeAquino has a good solution, but we can't replicate unless the attempt is an exact duplicate. Something bothers me, however, about the .GIF I saw depicting the test: the mass seemed to be laid directly on top of the scale, where stray fields could affect the scale mechanism itself. This aside, I see that what DeAquino has proposed is the transformation of EM energy into gravitational energy. I find it odd that the transformation is only gravitational negation and precludes any gravitational enhancement. Given G as defined for the Earth's surface, we only need 48 watts ( ! directional ! ) per kilogram [ E = 1 Kg x (( 9.8 m/s )^ 2 ) / 2s ] to negate gravity. Of course, that's given perfect conversion efficiency. It appears that DeAquino has to reach approx. 500 watts/Kg to achieve that. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: 2000 February 23, Wednesday 11:40 Subject: Re: DeAquino Experiment Info | On Tue, 22 Feb 2000, Steve Burns wrote: | | > DeAquino published a paper (released this month) pointing out weight | > reduction observed and experimentally verified from temperature radiation is | > valid for all radiation including EM. His weight reduction formula derived | > from Maxwells equations relate absorbed EM radiation energy by an atom | > (molecule) to the radiation frequency, as well as conduction, permeability | > and permittivity of the medium that the atom is a constitute. The formula | > gives an inverse relationship to frequency so low frequency absorbed energy | > yields the greatest weight reduction. In fact, the formula says for large | > energy absorption, the weight goes through zero and becomes negative | > (negative mass). | > | > I started corresponding with Fran regarding ways to construct an efficient | > ELF antenna as well as antenna encapsulating medium and gravity shield | > attributes. The problem with radiating low frequency is, to be efficient, | > the antenna length needs to be thousands of miles long. We concluded the | > best way around this is to slow phase velocity. | | Do the VLF waves need to radiate at all? If they are radiated by the coil | and then immediately absorbed by the atoms, then why do we have to create | a VLF antenna? Why not just construct a transformer with a lossy core? | The Poynting vector field then points away from the coil and into | the core where the energy is converted into heat. (Hey, use demagnetised | Ferrite magnets as the core. I bet they get hot when exposed to very | strong 60Hz fields. Use Barium Ferrite in order to be Bearden-esque.) | | The iron atoms must ABSORB the VLF radiation? Can they re-emit it again | and still experience altered mass? If not, if they must absorb it only, | then we must ask where the absorbed energy goes. Into core heating most | probably. This suggests that we should use an INEFFICIENT material for | the core, one which converts the changes in the magnetic domains into | heat. Use ordinary steel instead of silicon/iron transformer laminations. | Instead of re-radiating the VLF waves in the form of fields of delayed | phase, the lossy steel will absorb the energy of the fields. | | Another possibility: radiate the energy as sound. If we drive a quartz | crystal with high voltage electrodes, the atoms of the crystal absorb | energy from the e-fields and convert it to physical vibration, which is | then lost as sound waves. Because of the sound radiation, the atoms in | the crystal won't re-radiate the EM energy as they would in a conventional | capacitor. Even better, immerse the crystal in water or oil, and provide | sound absorbers on the walls of the bucket. (This sounds like the | Egyptian stone-lifting method. The secret of Coral Castle?) | | Maybe you don't need to use heavy copper rods as coils. If the weight of | the copper stays the same, then many turns of fine wire gives the same | magnetic field as few turns of heavy wire. With the correct wire gauge, | the entire device could run directly from the 220V mains with no | intermediate transformer needed. | | If the mass-alteration effect works all the way down to zero frequency, | it would suggest that a charged capacitor has a slightly altered mass. | | Would the effect work with "macroscopic particle" structures such as | electrical circuits? What if we drive a piece of carbon or nichrome wire | with a power supply? The energy in electric circuits is EM field energy, | and NOT the energy of individual electrons as many people suppose. In | this situation the EM energy travels through the fields surrounding the | conductors and then is absorbed by electrons in the resistor to accelerate | them, and then is transferred to the atomic nucleii during the electron | collisions within the resistor. Compared to the tiny amount of 60Hz energy | emitted by a desktop antenna, a piece of carbon absorbs many orders of | magnitude more. Do electric heaters lose mass? When a battery lights a | bulb, does the bulb become "light"? | | Idea: build the macroscopic analog of a resonant atom and let it absorb EM | waves. Build a small coil/capacitor circuit which is tuned to 60HZ. | Place a load resistor in series with the resonant circuit in order to | convert some of the absorbed EM energy into heat (so it absorbs 60HZ waves | and does not re-radiate them). Wind a larger hoop-coil and drive it with | current at 60Hz, with the small resonator held near the hoop-coil. The | resonator absorbs 60Hz energy and the resistor becomes hot. Weigh the | resonator with and without 60Hz power applied (or suspend it from a | counterbalance arm and look for movements.) | | If the EM energy MUST travel as true waves, then the fields of | conventional coils and capacitors will not work. In coils/capacitors the | E and M waves always lead or lag by 90 degrees phase and do not act as | flowing EM energy. To create true EM energy flow, use the "CFA" | crossed-field antenna idea: separately generate an intense e-field and | b-field, then superpose them. Wind a coil around a lossy ferromagnet | core, then place electrode plates at 90 degrees and apply high voltage at | the same frequency. That was the intent of the infamous GRC or "gravity | resonance coil", where two isolated coils created the b-field, and an H.V. | power supply imposed a large voltage between the two coils, so the e-field | was always at right angles to the b-field within the torus. In the GRC | the electromagnetic energy (Poynting vector) remained within the torus and | flowed around the major axis of the torus. The original GRC used melted | wax which grew hot during use (as it absorbed energy from the power | supplies! Maybe using glycerine prevented proper functioning.) | | Speaking of paraffin, nobody has yet built the wax-paper capacitor from | "Electric Rocket" plans. Perhaps that device needed to be driven by AC in | order to lose EM energy as heat in the dielectric. (For such a small | capacitor, the input would have to be high voltage in order to draw enough | current to heat the dielectric.) | | | | ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) | William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website | billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com | EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science | Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L | | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 07:33:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05217; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:33:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:33:16 -0800 Message-ID: <38CBB7A4.171A@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:28:36 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Recent letter from John Moray Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r2B4D.0.PH1.xYxou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.nuenergy.org/images/gif/jm.gif From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 11:47:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA31538; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:47:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:47:18 -0800 Message-ID: <38CBF381.684D@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:44:01 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: My response to John E. Moray's Recent Certified Letter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RbaTi.0.fi7.6H_ou"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.nuenergy.org/response.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 17:30:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA22591; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:29:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:29:45 -0800 Message-ID: <38CC4476.67D9FC31@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:29:26 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Recent letter from John Moray References: <38CBB7A4.171A@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3DA7Z1.0.uW5.7I4pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > http://www.nuenergy.org/images/gif/jm.gif Bruce, Well at the very least you've manage to awaken Moray to the fact that there *are* some of us who are still studying his father's works! Perhaps this will "light the fire under the Cosray teakettle" !! No offense intended, but it has seemed to me over the last 20 years that there has been nothing but empty promises from Cosray, no serious release of anything like new technical details, documentation, new information etcetra. Why?! I myself have written John Moray on two ocassions, ten years apart, and have received back only skelton replies, insisting that they: "..need only sufficient funds" and that: "..we have no need of any sort of additional technical expertise..". All of which makes me wonder about the hallowed lip service regarding making Radiant Energy available to lift the burdens of Mankind..beautiful words, charged with great and noble sentiment..all empty and devoid of meaning, given the state of disclosure regarding the exact details of the Moray Device(s). along with ALL rest of the "miracle inventions" that seem to have come and gone over the years. Sit in judgement? Hardly..I'm just calling a Spade a Spade. Without complete and total disclosure - and the subsequent duplication, verification and proof of the process of peer-review - such claims are nothing more than self-agrandizing rethoric. What would satisfy me on this matter would be if Cosray were to release ALL the notes and information that have been withheld; publish a COMPLETE and FULLY COMPRENHENSIVE manual with all the details of the Moray Valve, the schematic of the Radiant Energy Converter, the exact process notes on the cold-cathode tubes, etc. I would BUY a copy at a reasonable price...perhaps up to $250 What in the Hell are thay waiting for? -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 19:35:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18248; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:35:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:35:13 -0800 Message-ID: <38CC6219.36F5@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 22:35:53 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Be Prepared] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"_GlMX2.0.1T4.n76pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.1]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA08614 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:44:20 -0500 (EST) From: RBruneau@aol.com Received: from RBruneau@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id z.66.1ded79e (4363) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:44:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <66.1ded79e.25fd93dc@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:44:12 EST Subject: Be Prepared To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Bruce: John Moray wouldn't have sent you a certified letter if he wasn't intending to take legal action. I don't think he cares about your story. Unless you comply with his wishes, I think he will just move forward. He's played the same sort of game many times before. You better watch out. RRB From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 23:27:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA12679; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:26:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:26:28 -0800 From: "Peter Fred" To: "Freenrg-L" Subject: The System-G from Fran De Aquino Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:21:36 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf8cbc$c47e1200$51efffcc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"0HIMO3.0.063.ZW9pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Without detracting from the value and importance of the 63 % weight reduction of Fran de Aquino's 35 kg donut-shaped device, I would like to here interject a plug for my heat-centric gravity theory. (for an up-to-date description of this 63 % loss of weight see http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/systemg/html/sysgexp.htm) To produce gravity my theory only requires that heat be made to flow through a spherical or cylindrical shell in the steady state. Thus if my theory better describes what de Aquino has unearthed, it will be a lot cheaper and easier to achieve a weight-loss by using my theory rather than his. Peter Fred (for my theory and an experiment where a 2.9 % weight loss was observed with a hollow aluminum hemisphere see http://members.iglou.com/nfred/) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 23:58:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA16581; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:57:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:57:52 -0800 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <7e.22a48ff.25fdf959@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:57:13 EST Subject: Check your FBI record To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"NjkPG3.0.z24.-z9pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.th ecenter2000.com/access_public_records.htm <> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 01:00:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA26081; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:59:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:59:49 -0800 Message-ID: <017501bf8cca$77812ce0$590a9fca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: References: <000001bf8cbc$c47e1200$51efffcc@default> Subject: Re: The System-G from Fran De Aquino Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:55:37 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"vy2qb.0.QN6.5uApu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: see also: Coanda effect before you subscribe to this. The upside down colander in the foto's is a perfect candidate for lift via heated air rising along the upper, curved surface. my sincerest condolences - keep looking ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Fred To: Freenrg-L Sent: 2000 March 13, Monday 14:21 Subject: The System-G from Fran De Aquino | Without detracting from the value and importance of the 63 % | weight reduction of Fran de Aquino's 35 kg donut-shaped device, I would | like to here interject a plug for my heat-centric gravity theory. | | | (for an up-to-date description of this 63 % loss of weight see | http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/systemg/html/sysgexp.htm) | | To produce gravity my theory only requires that heat be made to flow | through a spherical or cylindrical shell in the steady state. Thus if | my theory better describes what de Aquino has unearthed, it will be a | lot cheaper and easier to achieve a weight-loss by using my theory | rather than his. | | | | Peter Fred | | (for my theory and an experiment where a 2.9 % weight loss was observed with | a hollow aluminum | hemisphere see | http://members.iglou.com/nfred/) | | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 03:05:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA09940; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 03:05:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 03:05:23 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:04:48 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: GDP Invisibility X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GNNll2.0.DR2.ojCpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jean-Louis, I had an intersting idea for an application of the GDP skin. On your GDP construction pages, you have glowing plasmas in blues, reds and greens. How do you change the colour of the plasma emitted? If you could tune the colour at will, you could cover your craft with it, tune the colour to the surroundings, and fly an invisible ship! James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 06:12:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA07734; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:11:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:11:40 -0800 From: "Peter Fred" To: Subject: RE: The System-G from Fran De Aquino Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:06:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf8cf5$4d4f9300$99ecffcc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <017501bf8cca$77812ce0$590a9fca@xplornote> Resent-Message-ID: <"L0FU72.0.lu1.SSFpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My condolances for you not reading the other 190 kilobytes of my web site. For instance I mention that there is evidence for a dirurnal variation of the earth's surface gravity. If it gets heavier by 0.06 % at night, this would account for the 0.006 m/s^2 centripetal acceleration of the earth around the sun. If orbiting bodies move around their central body, by just being slightly heavier on their night side as opposed to their day side, this possible way that nature herself moves heavy bodies move from A to B may have a very practical applications in the field of transportation. -----Original Message----- From: xplorer [mailto:xplorer@indo.net.id] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 2:56 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The System-G from Fran De Aquino see also: Coanda effect before you subscribe to this. The upside down colander in the foto's is a perfect candidate for lift via heated air rising along the upper, curved surface. my sincerest condolences - keep looking ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Fred To: Freenrg-L Sent: 2000 March 13, Monday 14:21 Subject: The System-G from Fran De Aquino | Without detracting from the value and importance of the 63 % | weight reduction of Fran de Aquino's 35 kg donut-shaped device, I would | like to here interject a plug for my heat-centric gravity theory. | | | (for an up-to-date description of this 63 % loss of weight see | http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/systemg/html/sysgexp.htm) | | To produce gravity my theory only requires that heat be made to flow | through a spherical or cylindrical shell in the steady state. Thus if | my theory better describes what de Aquino has unearthed, it will be a | lot cheaper and easier to achieve a weight-loss by using my theory | rather than his. | | | | Peter Fred | | (for my theory and an experiment where a 2.9 % weight loss was observed with | a hollow aluminum | hemisphere see | http://members.iglou.com/nfred/) | | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 11:39:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA31054; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:39:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:39:11 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <7a.29d6026.25fe9dd8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:39:04 EST Subject: Additional infos about the System-G To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"3sG-p.0._a7.UFKpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, I have updated the System-G page with two new diagrams : - an exploded view about the wiring setup of ELF antenna, - a detailled diagram about the power supply transformer. And also some comments from Fran De Aquino : <> If you are interested by this see at : http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/systemg/html/sysgexp.htm Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 13:07:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12900; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:05:22 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:05:22 -0800 (PST) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DeAquino Experiment Info Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:04:26 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4rlqcs46libaad1qf4pjp52ibp8mntsg4m@4ax.com> References: <013701bf8c2b$f4359d60$070c9fca@xplornote> In-Reply-To: <013701bf8c2b$f4359d60$070c9fca@xplornote> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id NAA12847 Resent-Message-ID: <"Uu0Sb2.0.S93.FWLpu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:04:46 +0700, xplorer wrote: [snip] >Given G as defined for the Earth's surface, > we only need 48 watts ( ! directional ! ) per kilogram > [ E = 1 Kg x (( 9.8 m/s )^ 2 ) / 2s ] to negate gravity. >Of course, that's given perfect conversion efficiency. >It appears that DeAquino has to reach approx. 500 watts/Kg > to achieve that. G is not 9.8 m/s, but 9.8 m/s^2. (It is an acceleration, not a velocity). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 13:53:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19657; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:53:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:53:27 -0800 Message-ID: <20000313215253.43550.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.55] From: "timothy richardson" To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net, nuenergy@listbot.com Cc: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Why not me???? Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:52:53 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"m4k3J2.0.yo4.MDMpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I seem to be having problems posting to the ring, have tryed several times to post, its never there. If anyone sees this, please respond so i know its working!!!! thanks a Gig. Tim Richardson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 15:00:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA15668; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:59:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:59:52 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Why not me???? Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:59:51 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38cf72d6.4204872@mail.midiowa.net> References: <20000313215253.43550.qmail@hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20000313215253.43550.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA15518 Resent-Message-ID: <"IBXHj1.0.iq3.dBNpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim, I see you. On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:52:53 PST, "timothy richardson" wrote: > > >I seem to be having problems posting to the ring, have tryed several times >to post, its never there. If anyone sees this, please respond so i know its >working!!!! thanks a Gig. > > Tim Richardson > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 16:17:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA14581; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:17:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:17:18 -0800 From: Oxygon@webtv.net X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRjrt0aWtYe+hRqZ4YqB+GA3Sr+JAIVAMYT0dj9E8C3Eft5bTm3zGWO7x2G Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:31:51 -0600 (CST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Why not me???? Message-ID: <2414-38CD7A67-11421@storefull-612.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "timothy richardson" 's message of Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:52:53 PST Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"lpaRj2.0.kZ3.EKOpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AOK From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 16:58:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28341; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:57:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:57:51 -0800 From: Wellsprng5@aol.com Message-ID: <9a.22c6b8a.25fee869@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:57:13 EST Subject: Re: GDP Invisibility To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 67 Resent-Message-ID: <"841bU3.0.kw6.EwOpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: neat idea....:-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 20:38:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03804; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:38:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:38:15 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:37:35 EST Subject: Tests show overunity To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_ae.264325a.25ff1c0f_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"2VNRj.0.Fx.t8Spu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_ae.264325a.25ff1c0f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See Attached drawing. Do not try this at home, you may experience overunity. 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freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: if you move away a coil from a magnet, the coil will produce opposite pole, thus it will produce an attractive force and not an offset repulsive force as your drawings suggest. HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > See Attached drawing. Do not try this at home, you may experience overunity. > Butch > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Image] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 21:00:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11785; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:59:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:59:51 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <84.28b5d5e.25ff2122@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:59:14 EST Subject: Re: Tests show overunity To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"GaAdJ3.0.1u2.7TSpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/13/00 10:55:33 PM Central Standard Time, energeon@microtec.net writes: > if you move away a coil from a magnet, the coil will produce opposite pole, > thus > it will produce an attractive force and not an offset repulsive force as > your > drawings suggest. > Read the notes again, look at the drawing, the neutral core moves into the magnetic field as the C shaped core moves away from the magnetic field! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 22:11:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA31319; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:11:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:11:08 -0800 From: Oxygon@webtv.net Message-Id: <200003140446.UAA13316@storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net> X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUApdcBm8aA4Lq5bb/1b3N6u/+gZtICFQCKc6Nh6IVNh8dInSTxT9MPBZrtwQ== Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:46:32 -0600 (CST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"UiAwA2.0.Af7.xVTpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=86?= Message-ID: <9493-38CDC428-12601@storefull-614.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: HLafonte@aol.com's message of Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:37:35 EST Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 00:51:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07983; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:50:21 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:50:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38CE0B07.BB4075E@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:48:55 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GDP Invisibility References: <38CDC989.AC783924@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rU_R11.0.dy1.BrVpu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: D Adams wrote: > yup... and heres betting that black ops has been doing just this for > years.......... > > James Owen Batchelor wrote: > >> Dear Jean-Louis, >> >> I had an intersting idea for an application of the GDP skin. On your >> GDP construction pages, you have glowing plasmas in blues, reds and >> greens. How do you change the colour of the plasma emitted? If you >> could tune the colour at will, you could cover your craft with it, >> tune the colour to the surroundings, and fly an invisible ship! >> >> James O. Batchelor >> >> Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 06:26:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA01936; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 06:25:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 06:25:51 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <7a.2a72389.25ffa5ca@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:25:14 EST Subject: Re: GDP Invisibility To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id GAA01910 Resent-Message-ID: <"Yxa2B2.0.9U.klapu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 14/03/00 09:52:28 Paris, Madrid, donadams@telusplanet.net a écrit : > >> Dear Jean-Louis, > >> > >> I had an intersting idea for an application of the GDP skin. On your > >> GDP construction pages, you have glowing plasmas in blues, reds and > >> greens. How do you change the colour of the plasma emitted? If you > >> could tune the colour at will, you could cover your craft with it, > >> tune the colour to the surroundings, and fly an invisible ship! > >> > >> James O. Batchelor Hi James, The colour of the GDP skin depends on the nature of the gaz used ( in air this is blue/violet, neon is orange...etc ) and also on the material pigment used for the wire insulation. This is not simple to change the colour of the GDP skin. But if the components used for the insulation of the GDP wires contains some sensitive pigments...why not ?... you will be able to transform all the skin of the flying craft into a big plasma TV color monitor....and thus, transform the entire aspect of its skin into the current sky background......and the flying craft will transform into a flying chameleon.... :-) Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 10:28:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29896; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:27:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:27:20 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <54.2059350.25ffde5f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:26:39 EST Subject: Neutral Switch Motor Generator link To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"7_7zV3.0._I7.7Iepu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14204 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here Is the web site link for LaFonte Neutral Switch Motor Generator LaFonte Neutral Switch Motor Generator or http://hometown.aol.com/hlafonte/myhomepage/profile.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 11:52:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA31946; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:52:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:52:16 -0800 Message-ID: <38CE9890.1E80F60D@info2000.net> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:52:48 -0700 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GDP Invisibility References: <7a.2a72389.25ffa5ca@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"S9RNK2.0.1p7.lXfpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Why not replace CRT's in televisions with GDP technology? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 11:53:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32765; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:53:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:53:24 -0800 Message-Id: <200003141953.OAA26744@fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Fw: post this please... Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:48:26 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C6anc.0.q_7.pYfpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Posted for John Schnurer -K. > Dear Folks, > > Can anyone please tell me the name of a manufacturer and contact > information who makes > A Keyboard that can be used with IBM clone that is > SMALL ... physically small key size and layout for a child with > very short fingers. > > > Please > > > John Herman Schnurer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 15:49:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA23124; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:49:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:49:21 -0800 Message-ID: <38CED01B.1138@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:49:47 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy 5th edition References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"92Uco1.0.Bf5.__ipu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zack Widup wrote: > > I find it interesting that I have sent several letters over the years to > Cosray asking for availability of the "Sea of Energy" book and never > received a reply. > > If he has the copyright to the works, why is he sitting on it? He ought > to republish it. I think there is some demand for it. > > Zack John Moreland offered John Moray to republish this book but Mr. Moray wanted $5.000.00 up front... so the deal went sour. It has not been reprinted in twenty years. Besides... editions one through four have more information in them. The copyrighted 5th edition has the important details edited out. Tom Bearden is responsible for these deletions I have been told. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 18:46:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22324; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:46:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:46:10 -0800 Message-ID: <20000315024533.80867.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.69] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy@cyberportal.net, Beverly_Richardson@ssmhc.com, brickyardman@aol.com, CAL8393@worldnet.att.net, mmvolner@hotmail.com Subject: Fwd: Fw: Fw: Fw: FW: [This works. I just got a check] Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:45:32 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_152d30b9_77e7933$6ee9e8f9" Resent-Message-ID: <"xAukc.0.eS5.nblpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14208 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_152d30b9_77e7933$6ee9e8f9 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: KKC913@aol.com >To: richardsontim@hotmail.com >Subject: Fwd: Fw: Fw: Fw: FW: [This works. I just got a check] >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:30:40 EST > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_152d30b9_77e7933$6ee9e8f9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (rly-yh03.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.35]) by air-yh04.mail.aol.com (v69.28) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:18:03 -0500 Received: from hotmail.com (f199.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.199]) by rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (v69.17) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:17:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 94149 invoked by uid 0); 14 Mar 2000 01:17:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20000314011727.94148.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 24.95.71.104 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:17:26 PST X-Originating-IP: [24.95.71.104] From: "Dark Hair" To: summersglen@prodigy.net, SkepticTanks@aol.com, ursoulm8@hotmail.com, jh7468@home.com, KKC913@aol.com, twinkle_304@yahoo.com, Marcumco@aol.com, wyalon@hotmail.com, loou@bellsouth.net, BamBam0658@aol.com, BCorderyjr@aol.com, Bowtie308@aol.com, Sunshyne1027@aol.com, OGUYmb@aol.com, Rockin39@aol.com, sunlover99@hotmail.com, guitarsss@hotmail.com Subject: Fwd: Fw: Fw: Fw: FW: [This works. 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I just got a check] > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_1ca79773_3cc56b49$71af7121 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: SteveViau@aol.com From: SteveViau@aol.com Full-name: Steve Viau Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:41:12 EST Subject: Fwd: Fw: Fw: FW: [This works. 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I just got a check] To: rcowser@mindspring.com, bmp@wasco-inc.com, lesjay@mindspring.com, lcarr@hmsy.com, CHADREICH@aol.com X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_7920F25B.69086455" --=_7920F25B.69086455 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --=_7920F25B.69086455 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (rly-zb05.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.5]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v69.17) with ESMTP; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:34:00 -0500 Received: from mail2.isdn.net (mail2.isdn.net [207.65.0.21]) by rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (v69.17) with ESMTP; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:33:40 1900 Received: from genesco.com (genesco.com [207.65.18.2]) by mail2.isdn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA13178; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:59:54 -0600 Received: from [10.1.0.23] by genesco.com via smtpd (for mail2.isdn.net [207.65.0.21]) with SMTP; 28 Feb 2000 13:39:05 UT Received: from GW52-Message_Server by genesco.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:32:34 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:32:10 -0600 From: "Meredith McDougle" To: amwelch123@aol.com, reichb313@aol.com, vanlin@datasync.com, julied@sportsbizdaily.com, lizzymcd@utkux.utcc.utk.edu Subject: Fwd: Fw: Fw: FW: [This works. I just got a check] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from seagull.cpinternet.com ([204.220.140.4]) by sun.dmci.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-64756U10000L2300S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:33:28 -0500 Received: from unclron (lcp-gr-22.lcp2.net [209.240.230.22]) by seagull.cpinternet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA03236; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:33:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <009101bf74c6$f90eb320$16e6f0d1@unclron> From: "Ron Forneris" To: "Arvid & Connie Erholtz" , "George Palo" , "Me" , "Ruth & Joel Martin" , "Shirley Sobtzak" , "Wanda & Travis" , "Mary and Les" , "Cousin Pudgy" Subject: Fw: Fw: FW: [This works. I just got a check] Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:34:08 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. J.F. Watkins To: Bruno ; Buzz n Jen ; Dave and Mich ; Cam Z ; Big Jim ; Timmy P ; Karl E. = Gustavson ; Jason Smith ; Phil Wojtczak Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 3:59 PM Subject: Fwd: Fw: FW: [This works. I just got a check] > >Reply-To: "Kevin Lomax" > >From: "Kevin Lomax" > >To: > >Subject: Fw: FW: [This works. I just got a check] > >Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:24:45 -0600 > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.uky.edu id QAA24432 > > > >Sorry guys and gals, but I have got to see if this works. > > > > > >LET'S GIVE IT A TRY! JUST FORWARD & WAIT FOR CHECK... > > > > > > > >Subject: FW: Fwd: FW: FW: real money > >I'm an attorney, and I know the law. This thing is for real. Rest assured > >AOL and Intel will follow through with their promises for fear of facing an > >multimillion dollar class action suit similar to the one filed by Pepsicola > >against General Electric not too long ago. I'll be damned if we're = all > > going to help them out with their e-mail beta test without getting a little > > something for our time. > >My brother's girlfriend got in on this a few > >went to visit him for the Baylor/UT game she > >showed me her check. It was for the sum of $4,324.44 > > and was stamped "Paid In Full". > >Like I said before, I know the law, and this is for real. If you don't > >believe me you can email her at jpiltman@baylor.edu. She's eager to answer > >any questions you guys might have. Thanks, Dirk. > > I know I'm already in. > >Moore, Dirk wrote: If you don't do this, you must be really, really = dumb. > >From: James M. Schwarnica > >This is not a joke. I am forwarding this because the person who sent = it to > >me is a good friend and does not send me junk. > > Intel and AOL are now discussing a merger which would make them the largest > > Internet company and in an effort make sure that AOL remains the most widely > >used program, Intel and AOL are running an e-mail beta test. When you forward > >this e-mail to friends, Intel can and will track it (if you are a > >Microsoft Windows user) for a two week time period. For every > > person that you forward this e-mail to, Microsoft will pay you $203.15, > >for every person that you sent it to that forwards it on, Microsoft = will pay > >you $156.29 and for every third person that receives it, you will be = paid > >$17.65 Within two weeks, Intel ill contact you for your address and = then > >send you a check. I thought this was a scam myself, but a friend of my good > >friend's Aunt Patricia, who works at Intel actually got a check for > >$4,543.23 by forwarding this e-mail. > > Try it, what have you got to lose???? > > > > > > > > > > ***************************************************************************= * * > Dr. John F. Watkins e-mail: geg173@pop.uky.edu > Department of Geography Phone: (606)257-4140 > University of Kentucky FAX: (606)323-1969 > Lexington, KY 40506-0027 > http://www.uky.edu/AS/Geography/ > http://www.coa.uky.edu/gerontology/ > "Time is the best teacher; unfortunately, it kills all the students." > > ***************************************************************************= * * > --=_7920F25B.69086455-- --part3_7c.2c403b5.25f47f40_boundary-- --part3_7c.2c403b5.25f47f40_boundary-- --part2_7c.2c403b5.25f539a8_boundary-- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF8C79.1800CBA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_1ca79773_3cc56b49$71af7121-- --part1_11.1cc3db4.25fef040_boundary-- ------=_NextPart_000_152d30b9_77e7933$6ee9e8f9-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 00:55:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA22734; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:54:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:54:40 -0800 Message-ID: <38CF5D8A.9A3BD20C@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:53:14 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: Fw: Fw: FW: [This works. I just got a check] References: <20000315024533.80867.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4ZoHG1.0.7Z5.F_qpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: give me a break, I hate getting things like this! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 02:02:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA32148; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:02:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:02:00 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:01:19 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: 2nd Generation GDP X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"S-TQx3.0.Ds7.N-rpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jean-Louis and all, Just to announce, I am now working on the theory for a second-generation GDP skin. This is a true "skin", smooth, without the need for wound wires and such like. I need to ask a favour. When I've finish the design, will you build it and give it a try for me? My OAUGDP signal generator is in tatters right now. I'll post all the data. This skin should give a more even plasma too. I'd be honoured to submit it for you to look over. James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 02:41:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA05864; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:41:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:41:10 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <7e.241f271.2600c2a1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 05:40:33 EST Subject: Re: 2nd Generation GDP To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: finalheaven@angelfire.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA05847 Resent-Message-ID: <"np4zK2.0.XR1.6Zspu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 15/03/00 11:06:04 Paris, Madrid, finalheaven@angelfire.com a écrit : > > Just to announce, I am now working on the theory for a second-generation GDP > skin. This is a true "skin", smooth, without the need for wound wires and > such like. I need to ask a favour. When I've finish the design, will you > build it and give it a try for me? My OAUGDP signal generator is in tatters > right now. I'll post all the data. This skin should give a more even plasma > too. I'd be honoured to submit it for you to look over. > > James O. Batchelor > Hi James, Good work, please, send us your new design and I shall be glad to update my web site with your new diagrams proposal. Thanks for sharing your informations. Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 05:16:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02965; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 05:16:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 05:16:09 -0800 Message-ID: <38CEFB65.D0940CEC@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:54:30 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net, "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Sea of Energy 5th edition References: <38CED01B.1138@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vHzdl2.0.Ak.Pqupu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > Zack Widup wrote: > > > > I find it interesting that I have sent several letters over the years to > > Cosray asking for availability of the "Sea of Energy" book and never > > received a reply. > > > > If he has the copyright to the works, why is he sitting on it? He ought > > to republish it. I think there is some demand for it. > > > > Zack > > John Moreland offered John Moray to republish this book but Mr. Moray > wanted $5.000.00 up front... so the deal went sour. It has not been > reprinted in twenty years. Besides... editions one through four have > more information in them. The copyrighted 5th edition has the important > details edited out. Tom Bearden is responsible for these deletions I > have been told. > > -BAP $5k up front, yep...that sounds like John Moray to me! I am soooo glad that I was able to take advantage of the opportunity to buy the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th editions on CDROM and they they were made available by a very unselfish man, at such a fair and honest price. Thank's to our own Bruce Perreault the information wasn't lost to time and greed, but rather was made available to serious scientific inquiry, long after, I might just add - someone managed to rob the editions that T.H. Moray put (at his own expense!) into almost every library in America! Go to the Master Card Catalog at the Los Angeles Central Library, you'll find (as I did) that those first four editions are LISTED, but UNAVAILABLE! Gee.. I wonder what that means? Well, in fact it means that the 1st-4th editions have been removed. Not merely restricted as are many rare or valuable books, where you must read the volumes in a reserved reading room, with a librarian present. I checked several dozen other libraries as well - same deal. I suspect that someone deliberately removed these texts from the libraries so that people wouldn't be able to read what T.H. Moray wrote. As far as I'm concerned, Bruce did us all a favor and by his efforts in keeping T.H. Moray's writings available has honored the man's memory a hundred times better than John Moray has! As for the issue of copyright, the Moray's long ago gave up any possible claim to the 1st-4th editions in not having filed for extended protection on these works...they are now in the eyes of the law PUBLIC DOMAIN materials and can be reprinted by ANYONE without recompensation! As to Mr. Bearden's duplicity in the matter of the layout of the 5th Edition, the removal of key information, etc. I wouldn't want to align myself - sure, I've heard these rumors over the years, but would vastly prefer to *ASK* him about it and have the real answer. Point is, with a copy of all 5 editions, all I can tell you is that there is still a lot of undocumented process involved in the making of the cold-cathode tubes, and there is a great deal of information missing which might successfully translate the well known block diagram of the Radiant Energy Converter into an actual circuit sechematic! The unknown impedance values of the transformers alone can make the circuit a nightmare to reverse engineer! I call upon John Moray to honor his father's memory and make a full disclosure of all the remaining information regarding the Radiant Energy Converter. In this, he can equal Bruce Perreault's efforts to see this technology fulfill it's promise.. Nothing less will do! -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 08:13:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA32234; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:13:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:13:30 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:12:45 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: ARDA-Chameleon? X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VgWb1.0.Zt7.fQxpu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jean-Louis, It's going to take me until next week to prepare all the data to submit to you. There's not that much, but I'm pretty busy right now. Also, my new skin will work well with the GDP-chameleon idea. The skin allows different gases to be injected into it. Since Oxygen is blue when ionised, and Copper is green, by mixing the right Nitrox mixture between the skin when the power is on, and by varying the pressure and power levels, we will be able to create a pretty perfect chameleon-ARDA when it is flying. The skin is "totally smooth", and will allow a craft to become undetectable visually in the sky when in flight, in addition to the huge speed and EM cloaking effect of the GDP skin! I've only got some hand-drawings, so I will scan them and submit ASAP. I'd love lots of constructive criticism when the stuff is out. Anyone for invisible ARDA? James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 11:24:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06820; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:24:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:24:15 -0800 Message-ID: <20000315192332.85997.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.49] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy@cyberportal.net, Beverly_Richardson@ssmhc.com, brickyardman@aol.com, CAL8393@worldnet.att.net, mmvolner@hotmail.com Subject: off subject - interesting.... Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:23:32 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"i5C151.0.Ng1.UD-pu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: "CHERYL LAND" >To: "Crazy4Eric" , "Timmy" >, >Subject: Fw: This is wild >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:05:26 -0000 > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > All I can say is that I tried it and it is > >> >> > > >> >>>> > something to > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > think about. Take a few minutes out of your busy > >> >> > > >> >>>> > day > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > and give yourself a few smiles.:-) > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > PS Let me know how you make out. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS _ DO NOT CHEAT OR IT > >> >> > > >> >>>> > WON'T WORK > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > AND YOU WILL WISH YOU HADN'T! > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > Take 3 minutes and try this - it will freak you > >> >> > > >> >>>> > out!! > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > The person who sent this said her wish came true 10 > >> >> > > >> >>>> > minutes after > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > they read the mail. But no cheating! > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > This game has a funny/creepy outcome. Don't read > >> >> > > >> >>>> > ahead, just do it > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > in order. It takes about 3 minutes - worth a try. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > First get a pen and paper. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > When you actually choose names, make sure it's > >> >> > > >> >>>> > people you actually > >> >> > > >> >>>> > know, and go with your first instincts! > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > Scroll down one line at a time - don't read ahead > >> >> > > >> >>>> > or you'll ruin > >> >> > > >> >>>> > the fun! > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 1. First, write the numbers 1 through to 11 in a > >> >> > > >> >>>> > column. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 2. Then, beside numbers 1 and 2, write down any two > >> >> > > >> >>>> > numbers you > >> >> > > >> >>>> > want. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 3. Beside the 3 and 7, write down the names of > >> >> > > >> >>>> > members of the > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > opposite sex. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > Don't look ahead or it won't turn out right! > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 4. Write anyone's name (like friends or family...) > >> >> > > >> >>>> > in the 4th, > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 5th and 6th spots. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > Don't cheat or you'll be upset that you did. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 5. Write down four song titles in 8, 9, 10 and 11. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 6. finally make a wish. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > And here is the key for the game... > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 1. You must tell (the number in space 2) people > >> >> > > >> >>>> > about this game. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 2. The person in space 3 is the one that you love > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 3. The person in 7 is one you like but can't work > >> >> > > >> >>>> > out > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 4. You care most about the person you put in 4. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 5. the person you name in number 5 is the one who > >> >> > > >> >>>> > knows you > >> >> > > >> >>>> > very well. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 6. the person you name in 6 is your lucky star. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 7. The song in 8 is the song that matches with the > >> >> > > >> >>>> > person in > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > number 3. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 8. The title in 9 is the song for the person in 7. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > 9. The tenth space is the song that tells you > >> >> > > >> >>>> > most about your > >> >> > > >> >>>> > mind. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > 10. And 11 is the song telling how you feel > >> >> > > >> >>>> > about life. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > Send this to 10 people within the hour you read > >> >> > > >> >>>> > this. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > If you do, your wish will come true. If you > >> >> > > >> >>>> > don't it will become the > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > opposite. > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > Strange but it seems to work! > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 13:07:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07494; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:05:56 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:05:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38CFFB3A.297@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:06:02 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: off subject - interesting.... References: <20000315192332.85997.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nsNaT.0.yq1.li_pu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tim, Enough is enough... this is an energy related forum not a place to post chain letters. -BAP timothy richardson wrote: > > >From: "CHERYL LAND" > >To: "Crazy4Eric" , "Timmy" > >, > >Subject: Fw: This is wild > >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:05:26 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > All I can say is that I tried it and it is > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > something to > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > think about. Take a few minutes out of your busy > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > day > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > and give yourself a few smiles.:-) > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > PS Let me know how you make out. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS _ DO NOT CHEAT OR IT > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > WON'T WORK > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > AND YOU WILL WISH YOU HADN'T! > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > Take 3 minutes and try this - it will freak you > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > out!! > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > The person who sent this said her wish came true 10 > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > minutes after > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > they read the mail. But no cheating! > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > This game has a funny/creepy outcome. Don't read > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > ahead, just do it > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > in order. It takes about 3 minutes - worth a try. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > First get a pen and paper. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > When you actually choose names, make sure it's > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > people you actually > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > know, and go with your first instincts! > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > Scroll down one line at a time - don't read ahead > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > or you'll ruin > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > the fun! > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 1. First, write the numbers 1 through to 11 in a > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > column. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 2. Then, beside numbers 1 and 2, write down any two > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > numbers you > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > want. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 3. Beside the 3 and 7, write down the names of > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > members of the > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > opposite sex. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > Don't look ahead or it won't turn out right! > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 4. Write anyone's name (like friends or family...) > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > in the 4th, > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 5th and 6th spots. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > Don't cheat or you'll be upset that you did. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 5. Write down four song titles in 8, 9, 10 and 11. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 6. finally make a wish. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > And here is the key for the game... > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 1. You must tell (the number in space 2) people > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > about this game. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 2. The person in space 3 is the one that you love > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 3. The person in 7 is one you like but can't work > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > out > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 4. You care most about the person you put in 4. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 5. the person you name in number 5 is the one who > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > knows you > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > very well. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 6. the person you name in 6 is your lucky star. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 7. The song in 8 is the song that matches with the > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > person in > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > number 3. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > 8. The title in 9 is the song for the person in 7. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > 9. The tenth space is the song that tells you > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > most about your > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > mind. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > 10. And 11 is the song telling how you feel > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > about life. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > Send this to 10 people within the hour you read > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > this. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > If you do, your wish will come true. If you > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > don't it will become the > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > opposite. > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > > > >> >> > > >> >>>> > > > Strange but it seems to work! > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 19:30:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19738; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:30:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:30:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:04:04 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"d3CIh3.0.Bq4.xK5qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14216 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: List members, Over the years I have worked on the foundational aspects of a new physics with the end result of finding a reasonable means to catalyze nuclear fusion reactions. Our model represents the first genuine breakthrough in fundamental physics in nearly a century. Not only can we point to a successful means to catalyze nuclear fusion reactions but we also have uncovered fundamental physics such as the nature of charge and the nature of gravity. I invite your attention to http://www.singtech.com At last, a design for an environmentally friendly type of power which doesn't require large dams, doesn't require energy distribution via networks of wires crisscrossing the nations, doesn't require the use of oil stocks or coal reserves and could be affordable enough so that virtually anyone could own one. To promote our company and its goals the board of directors of Singularity Technologies, Inc. has authorized the free distribution of one million shares of E-Stock in our company on a first come first serve basis. These shares could be worth as much as $1000 U.S. each (and perhaps more) as our company takes off. If you decide to take advantage of our offer please indicate on the sign up form that you were referred by Charles Cagle from the frenrg-l@eskimo.com list. Thanks and best regards, -- Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 20:11:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA00943; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:11:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:11:05 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:10:40 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"LfRAs3.0.dE.Ox5qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14217 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles - Sorry, wrong number. You want promotion, do a demo. Prove excess energy. You'll have the world at your feet. But I think I already know the response: any doubt shows not the reasonable skepticism intended, but rather that we are all "dead men", thralls of satan, etc. etc.. Either we believe your "theories" and claims, or it's straight to heck in a handbasket, right? Think we forget here so easily Charles? Bye. Again. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:04:04, Charles Cagle extruded the following material from an undisclosed orfice: >List members, > >Over the years I have worked on the foundational aspects of a new >physics with the end result of finding a reasonable means to >catalyze nuclear fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 21:15:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19916; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:15:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:15:07 -0800 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:12:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"wkBsl3.0.2t4.Rt6qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14218 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You know Rick, I was holding back there, but now you've gone and stirred up the old hornets nest again. You agent of Satan you. I went to the site, it wants to suck up some pretty serious information concerning you, probably the most alarming of which is your social security number. All you privacy buffs know what that means... Free? I've heard this story before. K. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Monteverde [mailto:rick@mail.highsurf.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 11:11 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Charles - Sorry, wrong number. You want promotion, do a demo. Prove excess energy. You'll have the world at your feet. But I think I already know the response: any doubt shows not the reasonable skepticism intended, but rather that we are all "dead men", thralls of satan, etc. etc.. Either we believe your "theories" and claims, or it's straight to heck in a handbasket, right? Think we forget here so easily Charles? Bye. Again. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:04:04, Charles Cagle extruded the following material from an undisclosed orfice: >List members, > >Over the years I have worked on the foundational aspects of a new >physics with the end result of finding a reasonable means to >catalyze nuclear fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 21:45:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA32367; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:45:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:45:07 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:46:35 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"SzUlY.0.ev7.YJ7qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14219 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: >Charles - > >Sorry, wrong number. You want promotion, do a demo. Prove excess >energy. You'll have the world at your feet. The world just may not be about you, Rick. It may be that this is not a wrong number for others. And it may be that I'm not interested in having the world at my feet. What I'm interested in doing is getting a few people interested in the work I've done. And, somehow, I don't think that you speak for the whole list, Rick. I would expect that you actually know the difference between 'proof' which is nothing less than the subjective evaluation of data (much like 'evidence' which is considered subordinate to 'proof') and the data itself. Whether you suppose 'promotion' is bad or good is a personal opinion. >But I think I already know the response: any doubt shows not the >reasonable skepticism intended, but rather that we are all "dead >men", thralls of satan, etc. etc.. Either we believe your "theories" >and claims, or it's straight to heck in a handbasket, right? Think >we forget here so easily Charles? I have had many critics claim that I have made such statements but never one who could post such words of mine. Doubt is fine. I expect doubt. Whether you are 'dead men' or in the 'thralls of satan' etc. is between you and God. And it isn't about whether you believe my 'theories' since I haven't posted a 'theory' but rather a model but whether or not people are willing to look at the data within the context of a new model, a new paradigm. You want 'proof' of 'excess' energy and I've never claimed to have produced a device that produces 'excess energy'. My claims relate to real physics which I have proffered in such a manner that people are open to refute them. I've only stated that no one, to date, has offered much but ad hominems in attempts to refute....much like you have proffered in your response. The challenge to refute my claims is always open. I claim to outline the physics and the process for a working nuclear fusion reactor which will produce a pulsed beam output much like a stellar jet system like HH30 (for example). I'm also offering free E-Stock in Singularity Technologies, Inc. to people who are interested in the work I've been doing. You aren't interested. Fine. Don't worry about others who might be. For those who are interested - well they can open the link to http://www.singtech.com You shouldn't envy people for wanting to take a look nor me for freely giving them a look and if they are positively interested, an opportunity to become a part owner of my company free of charge. One could say I've made no small effort to generate animosity from a number of people. I look at it as simple shaking up the group and see what types of people fall out. Every once in a while a genuinely nice serious scientist drops out of the machinations into my lap and we end up building a great friendship and relationship dedicated to finding truth in physics. In the meanwhile, hordes of scoffers also rise up. So what? Everyone has their technique for reaching the people in whom they are interested. Now, lots of people have signed up for free e-stock in Singularity Technologies, Inc. and I have hardly begun to promote the idea. The SCYBOLT(tm) reactor design has the potential to save the lives of millions of people. In discovering the physics of electromagnetotoroids (EMTs) I've also uncovered the physics of the EMTs of planets and stars. Understanding that physics allows one to see the very real danger that humanity is in should the Earth's EMT be stimulated into going through a dipole reversal or dipole excursion sequence. The model even provides the mechanism for stimulating such a dipole reversal sequence because it outlines the physics behind such events. As the Sun enters the solar maximum phase it produces quite a few Coronal Mass Ejections (CMEs) any of which can have a profound effect on the Earth's magnetic field. When the Earth's EMT is next stimulated into going through a pi/2 radian rotation of its general current vector then the Earth's dipole field will rapidly disappear....estimated time from stimulation by properly oriented and sufficiently energetic CMEs until complete field disappearance is about fifteen days. This is based upon data published in Nature concerning the analysis of lava found here in southeastern Oregon at Steens Mountain. That particular lava came out during a dipole reversal sequence and show the astounding average rate of change of the field to be six degrees per day. The current and field vectors only have to rotate 90 degrees and the field will be completely down. What is interesting about this is that the Sun itself is the perfect analog of a structure with an EMT going through current vector rotations. The truly cataclysmic events which will accompany the next dipole reversal sequence will likely kill off the majority of mankind. As tremendous earthquakes destroy the power distribution infrastructures people would have a survival advantage to have a portable SCYBOLT(tm) reactor system to provide them with energy to run their homes and equipment. The SCYBOLT(tm) reactor system hasn't been built yet and I've never intimated or made the claim that it has. It isn't an overnight garage project but rather one that is going to take a lot of tweaking and fiddling, and therefore some real investment in time and money. Nevertheless, once the tweaking and fiddling has been done then SCYBOLT(tm) reactor systems can be mass produced at a relatively low cost. At this point the general operational principles and the fundamental physics behind the SCYBOLT(tm) reactor design are being promoted. In the meantime, I invite any and all list members to take advantage of this free e-stock giveaway program by linking to http://www.singtech.com and doing a little investigation on their own. Best regards, -- Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 23:20:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA11655; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:19:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:19:13 -0800 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:18:33 EST Subject: monopoly of energy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 61 Resent-Message-ID: <"R34MM.0.0s2.kh8qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14220 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << Hi all, (this is a perhaps off subject) But if you intersted to read true conspiracy and WHY never any free energy machine allowed to get into the market place and true reason behind of all control and manipulation of people on earth, and the type of minds behind it, who is doing all these things? Well, below link will expose it all, its a "true control manual that was written about the subject" but: The sinister Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars manual is recovered from an old hardrive and is available to all... Here is a little clip I copied from that website (manual to slave mankind) its' a very sinister "corrupt" advance mind seems wrote all these things. Here how the manual got discovered: "TOP SECRET: Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, An introductory Programming Manual" was uncovered quite by accident on July 7th, 1986 when an employee of Boeing Aircraft Co. purchased a surplus IBM copier for scrap parts at a sale, and discovered inside details of a plan, hatched in embryonic days of the "Cold War" which called for control of the masses through manipulation of Industry, peoples' pastimes, education and political learning's. It called for a quite revolution, putting brother against brother, and diverting the public's attention from what is really going on. Withen the manual, about the energy, says: Since energy is the key to all activity on the face of the earth, it follows that in order to attain a monopoly of energy, raw materials, goods, and services and to establish a world system of slave labor, it is necessary to have a first strike capability in the filed of economics. In order to maintain our position, it is necessary that we have absolute first knowledge of the science of control over all economic factors and the first experience at engineering the world economy. In order to achieve such sovereignty, we must at least achieve this one end: that the public will not make either the logical or mathematical connection between economics and the other energy sciences or learn to apply such knowledge. and here is the URL http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9357/silent.html Have fun, and hear the truth... MB.>> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 23:53:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA15332; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:52:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:52:56 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:28:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1258937975==_ma============" Resent-Message-ID: <"1o8i71.0.Ol3.IB9qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14221 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --============_-1258937975==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sparky wrote: >You know Rick, I was holding back there, but >now you've gone and stirred up the old hornets nest >again. You agent of Satan you. > >I went to the site, it wants to suck up some pretty >serious information concerning you, probably the most >alarming of which is your social security number. >All you privacy buffs know what that means... > >Free? I've heard this story before. > >K. Your SSAN is pretty serious information? Why would *your* SSAN be pretty serious information since it is a matter of public record? You'll notice I'm making the offer to foreigners as well and they aren't required to provide their SSAN because they don't have a Social Security Account Number. The only serious information I'm collecting is the standard data that any privately held company would ordinarily retain on record for its stockholders if they needed to contact them or to report an income flow from the company to the stockholder. You should read the general rules or considerations that I'm asking the people to agree to prior to their applying for the free E-Stock in Singularity Technologies, Inc. You'll see that I'm not interested in giving away stock to people who demonstrate hostility towards the company. Why should I be? If you aren't interested in the offer what makes you think that you can frighten people away with your childish scare tactics and innuendos? When we vote to buy back the stock from people that we are giving away free to them we will need SSAN's to support our expenditures with the IRS. That's the only reason we're collecting that information now. If I were a Canadian or any other nationality I'd be collecting the relevant tax number or whatever they use to track taxable income in their particular country so as to be in agreement with the tax laws of my country. I don't require anything other than a self manufactured ID number (to track referrals) from people who are citizens of foreign countries. If someone is afraid to proliferate their SSAN for some legitmate reason then I'm all for their privacy. All they need to do is to send me an email expressing their concerns. I don't need their SSAN until I make the offer to buy back the shares. If people wish to enter an ID number other than their SSAN they can sure do that (as long as they follow the rules and don't try to cheat the program.) Regards, -- Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com --============_-1258937975==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock!
Sparky wrote:

You know Rick, I was holding back there, but
now you've gone and stirred up the old hornets nest
again. You agent of Satan you.

I went to the site, it wants to suck up some pretty
serious information concerning you, probably the most
alarming of which is your social security number.
All you privacy buffs know what that means...

Free? I've heard this story before.

K.

Your SSAN is pretty serious information?   Why would *your* SSAN be pretty serious information since it is a matter of public record?  You'll notice I'm making the offer to foreigners as well and they aren't required to provide their SSAN because they don't have a Social Security Account Number.  The only serious information I'm collecting is the standard data that any privately held company would ordinarily retain on record for its stockholders if they needed to contact them or to report an income flow from the company to the stockholder.    You should read the general rules or considerations that I'm asking the people to agree to prior to their applying for the free E-Stock in Singularity Technologies, Inc.  You'll see that I'm not interested in giving away stock to people who demonstrate hostility towards the company.  Why should I be?   If you aren't interested in the offer what makes you think that you can frighten people away with your childish scare tactics and innuendos?  When we vote to buy back the stock from people that we are giving away free to them we will need SSAN's to support our expenditures with the IRS.    That's the only reason we're collecting that information now.   If I were a Canadian or any other nationality I'd be collecting the relevant tax number or whatever they use to track taxable income in their particular country so as to be in agreement with the tax laws of my country.  I don't require anything other than a self manufactured ID number (to track referrals) from people who are citizens of foreign countries.  If someone is afraid to proliferate their SSAN for some legitmate reason then I'm all for their privacy.   All they need to do is to send me an email expressing their concerns.   I don't need their SSAN until I make the offer to buy back the shares.   If people wish to enter an ID number other than their SSAN they can sure do that (as long as they follow the rules and don't try to cheat the program.)

Regards,

--
Charles Cagle, CEO
Singularity Technologies, Inc.
1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W.
Salem, OR  97304
503-362-7781
singtech@telestream.com
--============_-1258937975==_ma============-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 06:35:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA27254; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 06:34:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 06:34:59 -0800 Message-ID: <38D0ED2B.56C0E5D9@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:18:19 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex CC: freenrg Subject: On patent US06025810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1ahxX.0.Zf6.I4Fqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14222 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, If you are examined the antenna diagram (page 6), you may found it surprisingly simple and easy to construct. As author suggest, it is possible to replace external coils L1 and L3 with PM's , just with loudspeaker magnets. This configuration, and explanation of the device work make sense to me. First, heat mobilize or excite atoms, on the filament and both the gas inside the lamp. Then the strong electric field and the shaped magnetic field will interact with movements of neutre or ionized atoms inside the lamp. Maybe the electrodes will emit electrons on ambient pressure, by the help of heat. Now you have something like as electron or ion accelerator. Author named also the HV wires as accelerator. Great! Now how it signals above c? I assume the transmitted signals are not electromagnetic, but long range effects produced by atomic or subatomic particles. Very nice idea indeed. We had used to be working electrons to create electromagnetic fields in order to communicate. This is becaus e the electron mobility is very easy, producing electricity is easy and all the related stuff. But may hadrons have exceptional properties which leptons does not, like the "strong force". Hadrons are more complex structures than leptons, not only main bu ilding blocks of matter but powerful devices, if driven properly may produce macroscopic functions or fields using the advantage of high density of energy they have, which are not available to electrons or leptons. I am not conclusive about usage of hadro ns on this device, this is for just emphasizing the idea using atomic/subatomic particles beyond their coulombic properties for generating long range fields. In the other hand, a major tendency on high energy physics is using extra high order dimensions to model subatomic structure, like superstrings, branes, and many strange stuff that I dont understand. It appears that these extra dimensions are generally po stulated as planck length tiny loops (compacted dimensions) embedded in the structure of the subatomic particles, especially inside quarks and their constituents :) It would be even more exciting the device if the long range fields that I hypothesis would be actually gravitational field. the only long range field know currently mainly produced (or exclusively) by hadrons. Recent work of Fran De Aquino shows the gravi tation fields are manageable by using ELF or more generally connected the heat phenomena. Whether these are gravitational fields or other long range fields which may embed extra dimensions (really!), the speed of light barrier of special relivity would not pose a problem, as such a phenomenon lies clearly outside of the special relativity fram e. Great introduction, isn't it? :) Ok, now we have a device (the antenna) having an thermodynamic exciter (the lamp), electric and magnetic fields to help to align the vibrations of atoms and finally an modulator to switch the operation of the device. It seems to me the magnetic field of t he signal injection coil (L2) used for disturbing the regime of the device, phenomenon need to creation of long range fields are occurs when the magnetic field of L2 is off, and when on, the operation cease. Just a typical modulator. But there is major constraint on this logic. Author described the antenna as both transmitter and both as receiver. My logic is fine here as a transmitter. In order the device works as a receiver, far fields coming from the xmitter would modify the regime of atomic or subatomic particles vibrating, and this would change the electrical, magnetic property of the medium belong the sense coil. I did not examined the electronic circuitry for the moment for clarify the problem. Of course, this is one of the many possibilities of the working principle of the device. but just model is enough to show it would be not be an imagination af a crazy inventor. Reference: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US06025810__ Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 06:44:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31050; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 06:44:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 06:44:05 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: ELF Exposure Study Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:56:02 -0500 Message-ID: <20000316145602906.AAA273@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"K7FWI.0.3b7.rCFqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14223 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ahoy there, I just got this, and haven't looked at the study itself, so I haven't formulated any opinion on it, but I thought I'd wing it your way in light of some of the ELF experiments now underway. It suggests that there is a link between ELF exposure and suicide rates, due to the ELF possibly affecting the rate at which melatonin is produced by the body. An experimenter may wish to monitor their own mood swings and sleep cycles and those of the people around the experiments to determine whether or not a melatonin supplement may be necessary. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/mar2000/2000L-03-15-03.html Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 07:58:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA28456; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:57:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:57:34 -0800 Message-ID: <38D10468.26E3FDDE@microtec.net> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:57:28 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HmDdF3.0.Sy6.iHGqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14224 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: who wants the world at his feet when that same one can have time and matter at his feet. "C. Cagle" wrote: > Rick Monteverde wrote: > > >Charles - > > > >Sorry, wrong number. You want promotion, do a demo. Prove excess > >energy. You'll have the world at your feet. > > The world just may not be about you, Rick. It may be that this is > not a wrong number for others. And it may be that I'm not interested > in having the world at my feet. What I'm interested in doing is > getting a few people interested in the work I've done. > > And, somehow, I don't think that you speak for the whole list, Rick. > I would expect that you actually know the difference between 'proof' > which is nothing less than the subjective evaluation of data (much > like 'evidence' which is considered subordinate to 'proof') and the > data itself. Whether you suppose 'promotion' is bad or good is a > personal opinion. > > >But I think I already know the response: any doubt shows not the > >reasonable skepticism intended, but rather that we are all "dead > >men", thralls of satan, etc. etc.. Either we believe your "theories" > >and claims, or it's straight to heck in a handbasket, right? Think > >we forget here so easily Charles? > > I have had many critics claim that I have made such statements but > never one who could post such words of mine. Doubt is fine. I > expect doubt. Whether you are 'dead men' or in the 'thralls of > satan' etc. is between you and God. > > And it isn't about whether you believe my 'theories' since I haven't > posted a 'theory' but rather a model but whether or not people are > willing to look at the data within the context of a new model, a new > paradigm. You want 'proof' of 'excess' energy and I've never claimed > to have produced a device that produces 'excess energy'. My claims > relate to real physics which I have proffered in such a manner that > people are open to refute them. I've only stated that no one, to > date, has offered much but ad hominems in attempts to refute....much > like you have proffered in your response. The challenge to refute > my claims is always open. > > I claim to outline the physics and the process for a working nuclear > fusion reactor which will produce a pulsed beam output much like a > stellar jet system like HH30 (for example). > > I'm also offering free E-Stock in Singularity Technologies, Inc. to > people who are interested in the work I've been doing. You aren't > interested. Fine. Don't worry about others who might be. For those > who are interested - well they can open the link to > http://www.singtech.com You shouldn't envy people for wanting to > take a look nor me for freely giving them a look and if they are > positively interested, an opportunity to become a part owner of my > company free of charge. > > One could say I've made no small effort to generate animosity from a > number of people. I look at it as simple shaking up the group and > see what types of people fall out. Every once in a while a genuinely > nice serious scientist drops out of the machinations into my lap and > we end up building a great friendship and relationship dedicated to > finding truth in physics. In the meanwhile, hordes of scoffers also > rise up. So what? Everyone has their technique for reaching the > people in whom they are interested. > > Now, lots of people have signed up for free e-stock in Singularity > Technologies, Inc. and I have hardly begun to promote the idea. > > The SCYBOLT(tm) reactor design has the potential to save the lives of > millions of people. In discovering the physics of > electromagnetotoroids (EMTs) I've also uncovered the physics of the > EMTs of planets and stars. Understanding that physics allows one to > see the very real danger that humanity is in should the Earth's EMT > be stimulated into going through a dipole reversal or dipole > excursion sequence. The model even provides the mechanism for > stimulating such a dipole reversal sequence because it outlines the > physics behind such events. As the Sun enters the solar maximum > phase it produces quite a few Coronal Mass Ejections (CMEs) any of > which can have a profound effect on the Earth's magnetic field. > When the Earth's EMT is next stimulated into going through a pi/2 > radian rotation of its general current vector then the Earth's dipole > field will rapidly disappear....estimated time from stimulation by > properly oriented and sufficiently energetic CMEs until complete > field disappearance is about fifteen days. This is based upon data > published in Nature concerning the analysis of lava found here in > southeastern Oregon at Steens Mountain. That particular lava came > out during a dipole reversal sequence and show the astounding average > rate of change of the field to be six degrees per day. The current > and field vectors only have to rotate 90 degrees and the field will > be completely down. What is interesting about this is that the Sun > itself is the perfect analog of a structure with an EMT going through > current vector rotations. The truly cataclysmic events which will > accompany the next dipole reversal sequence will likely kill off the > majority of mankind. As tremendous earthquakes destroy the power > distribution infrastructures people would have a survival advantage > to have a portable SCYBOLT(tm) reactor system to provide them with > energy to run their homes and equipment. > > The SCYBOLT(tm) reactor system hasn't been built yet and I've never > intimated or made the claim that it has. It isn't an overnight > garage project but rather one that is going to take a lot of tweaking > and fiddling, and therefore some real investment in time and money. > Nevertheless, once the tweaking and fiddling has been done then > SCYBOLT(tm) reactor systems can be mass produced at a relatively low > cost. At this point the general operational principles and the > fundamental physics behind the SCYBOLT(tm) reactor design are being > promoted. > > In the meantime, I invite any and all list members to take advantage > of this free e-stock giveaway program by linking to > http://www.singtech.com and doing a little investigation on their own. > > Best regards, > > -- > Charles Cagle, CEO > Singularity Technologies, Inc. > 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. > Salem, OR 97304 > 503-362-7781 > singtech@telestream.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 11:44:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16456; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:43:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:43:19 -0800 Message-ID: <38D1394B.1860B677@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:43:07 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: monopoly of energy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bGNLF1.0.114.NbJqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14225 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote: > << Hi all, (this is a perhaps off subject) > > But if you intersted to read true conspiracy and WHY > never any free energy machine allowed to get into the market place > and true reason behind of all control and manipulation of people on > earth, and the type of minds behind it, who is doing all these things? > snip! > Have fun, and hear the truth... > MB.>> I'm sorry, but the level of writing skill, the consistant poor sentence structure, bad grammar, mis-spelled words, etc. tells me that this "document" is a fraud! I also suggest that the website is run by a looney! Clearly, very little technical knowledge, a lot of political and economic rhetoric mixed with a modicum of various conspiracy theories. In all, I'd give it a rating of 1, for content; and a 10 for humor value! It's unfortunate that there are people out there who really believe all this nonsense. quoting from the website: "TOP SECRET: Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, An introductory Programming Manual" was uncovered quite by accident on July 7th, 1986 when an employee of Boeing Aircraft Co. purchased a surplus IBM copier for scrap parts at a sale, and discovered inside details of a plan, hatched in embryonic days of the "Cold War" which called for control of the masses through manipulation of Industry, peoples' pastimes, education and political learning's. It called for a quite revolution, putting brother against brother, and diverting the public's attention from what is really going on." UHUH....sure! Where's the documentation of this "find" ?? Fer God's sake MB don't take this seriously! -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 12:28:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02690; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:27:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:27:30 -0800 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <54.216c626.26029d8a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:26:50 EST Subject: Re: ELF Exposure Study To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 67 Resent-Message-ID: <"NsoZe3.0.xf.oEKqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14226 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You might also want to check out "The Body Electric" and "Cross Currents" by Robert O. Becker. He did a lot of pioneering work for the US Gov't on the effects of electromagnetic fields on the human body. Had his funding cut when he started making people uncomfortable with his findings. Evidently, EMFs of various types can have both a positive and a negative effect on the human body depending upon the field strength, etc. Some of his research that's more controversial has been duplicated by Duke University, but its never gotten into the mainstream areas of study. (A piece on the Duke study aired about 10 years ago on CNN, they never mentioned Becker, but it was pretty obvious that they were either following his efforts or had stumbled upon the same thing by accident.) Brian Drake From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 12:35:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA06393; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:34:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:34:56 -0800 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: ELF Exposure Study Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:34:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000401bf8f87$1042e680$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: <54.216c626.26029d8a@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"QXil9.0.lZ1.mLKqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gents- As a calibration point, ELF exposure from stereo headphones is about one half the recommended allowable limit. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Bmd2323@aol.com [mailto:Bmd2323@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 3:27 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ELF Exposure Study You might also want to check out "The Body Electric" and "Cross Currents" by Robert O. Becker. He did a lot of pioneering work for the US Gov't on the effects of electromagnetic fields on the human body. Had his funding cut when he started making people uncomfortable with his findings. Evidently, EMFs of various types can have both a positive and a negative effect on the human body depending upon the field strength, etc. Some of his research that's more controversial has been duplicated by Duke University, but its never gotten into the mainstream areas of study. (A piece on the Duke study aired about 10 years ago on CNN, they never mentioned Becker, but it was pretty obvious that they were either following his efforts or had stumbled upon the same thing by accident.) Brian Drake From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 12:49:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12919; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:48:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:48:53 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000316154610.00947e80@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:48:43 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"3FVj63.0.i93.qYKqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Your SSAN is pretty serious information? Why would *your* SSAN be pretty >serious information since it is a matter of public record? You'll notice >I'm making the offer to foreigners as well and they aren't required to >provide their SSAN because they don't have a Social Security social security numbers can be used to extract money....false identification...find records on people...info sharks charge an arm and a leg for SS #'s, that's a valuable number we all have on our names From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 13:08:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20675; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:08:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:08:24 -0800 From: "Phillip Brost" To: Subject: RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:08:29 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000316154610.00947e80@pop.mindspring.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"cVUBK.0.y25.7rKqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14229 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am not for sure on this, but is this man science or his marketing practices at question. If it is the latter there are better forums, but if it is his science would somebody please speak to this so we may all understand. -----Original Message----- From: Rymel [mailto:rymel@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 2:49 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock! >Your SSAN is pretty serious information? Why would *your* SSAN be pretty >serious information since it is a matter of public record? You'll notice >I'm making the offer to foreigners as well and they aren't required to >provide their SSAN because they don't have a Social Security social security numbers can be used to extract money....false identification...find records on people...info sharks charge an arm and a leg for SS #'s, that's a valuable number we all have on our names From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 13:22:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25448; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:22:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:22:25 -0800 Message-ID: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:22:58 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Uranyl Nitrate Samples Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pFa9W3.0.XD6.H2Lqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14230 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If anyone desires to experiment with radiation here is the source that you have been looking for... http://www.nuenergy.org/uranyl.htm Grab a gram or two now... because I have no idea how long I can offer this material. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 13:51:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03545; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:50:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:50:43 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: monopoly of energy Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:02:38 -0500 Message-ID: <20000316220238875.AAA267@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"S0yHP.0.It.nSLqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14231 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You write: > I'm sorry, but the level of writing skill, the consistant poor sentence >structure, >bad grammar, mis-spelled words, etc. tells me that this "document" is a fraud! It may be a fraud, it might not be. I've had correspondence with a number of Boeing's brightest and best, and many of them couldn't write worth a darn. I've also known numerous spooks, mercenaries and assassins who were the same. Excellent killers, terrible spellers. All very highly paid as well, BTW, and the brighter ones just had their secretaries do the grammer brush ups. You do what you do best, I guess. I haven't had a chance to read this document, but if you look at the history of the energy business, you will see a lot of evidence in plain view of a very powerful bunch of wealthy people who would do anything to keep their positions of power. You can't hide all the wars, for example. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 21:15:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA16111; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:12:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:12:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000317130928.00a57600@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:09:28 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"n2gLo1.0.cx3.FxRqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14232 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles Cagle wrote: >...My claims >relate to real physics which I have proffered in such a manner that >people are open to refute them. I've only stated that no one, to >date, has offered much but ad hominems in attempts to refute....much >like you have proffered in your response. The challenge to refute >my claims is always open. It has been discussed long ago in this forum that in your diagram http://www.singtech.com/archetype.html you show a B-field *external* to the 2-D toroidal current sheath. This is a direct contradiction of Faradays law (one of Maxwell's equations) which says that the B-field along any closed loop (in this case the long way around the outside of the torus) is determined by the current linking that loop (as well as the rate of change of electric field through the surface bounded by the loop - Maxwells addition). In your case there is no current linking that loop (and I can't see any electric fields or charge separation going on), so a rather well tested law of physics says there should be no external B-field. Your Archetype model and consequent deductions seems to rely on the v x B effect of this B-field. I think most physicists and engineers would regard this as a refutation of your "model". From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 03:54:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA18687; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:54:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 03:54:11 -0800 Message-ID: <38D22A9E.48929FD4@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 04:52:46 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! References: <3.0.6.32.20000317130928.00a57600@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p1io7.0.uZ4.WpXqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14233 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John, I don't pretend to be a physicist... but aren't the Maxwellian equation(s) you refer to really the diluted and severly modified Heavyside rendition and not really the true original Maxwell version? Perhaps Charles work should be compared to the orignal equations which focused on 'potentials' to see whether they truly are contradictory? John Winterflood wrote: > Charles Cagle wrote: > > >...My claims > >relate to real physics which I have proffered in such a manner that > >people are open to refute them. I've only stated that no one, to > >date, has offered much but ad hominems in attempts to refute....much > >like you have proffered in your response. The challenge to refute > >my claims is always open. > > It has been discussed long ago in this forum that in your diagram > http://www.singtech.com/archetype.html > you show a B-field *external* to the 2-D toroidal current sheath. > > This is a direct contradiction of Faradays law (one of Maxwell's > equations) which says that the B-field along any closed loop > (in this case the long way around the outside of the torus) is > determined by the current linking that loop (as well as the > rate of change of electric field through the surface bounded > by the loop - Maxwells addition). > > In your case there is no current linking that loop (and I can't > see any electric fields or charge separation going on), so a > rather well tested law of physics says there should be no external > B-field. Your Archetype model and consequent deductions seems to > rely on the v x B effect of this B-field. > > I think most physicists and engineers would regard this as a > refutation of your "model". From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 07:34:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11285; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:34:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:34:20 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:21:01 -0500 Subject: Re: monopoly of energy Message-ID: <20000317.102111.-399349.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-8,14-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"L_2bW2.0.Am2.x1bqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14234 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This document looks more like something an anarchist/communist/socialistic/fascist/Marxist/etc. college student would put out. Lots of loonies publish their material on the internet, and this site gives no indication of authenticity. If it's left over from the Cold War, then it is more likely to be a product of fanatic Marxist beatnik than a serious conspiracy. -Tom Grimes P.S.: Did you know that Shell Oil, one of those darned conspirators, is one of the poineers in providing cheap solar power to Third World countries? And, further, that they are exploring alternative energy sources? If I were a betting man, I'd bet anyone anything that large companies like Shell will be near the forefront of serious alternative energy sources in the near future. mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- A sign on a Tennessee highway: "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 13:00:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02256; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:00:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:00:05 -0800 Message-ID: <38D29C5B.8D905D0A@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:58:03 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg Subject: Researchers link suicide to electromagnetic fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"s49Uy3.0.8Z.Lpfqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14235 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20000314-644-health-suici.html See the ELF paragraph! March 14, 2000 LONDON -- American scientists have uncovered a high rate of suicide among electric utility workers and suspect this is linked to electromagnetic fields and their possible effect on the brain chemical melatonin. Dr David Savitz and researchers at the University of North Carolina think the electromagnetic fields may decrease levels of melatonin and that this may cause depression and suicide. Melatonin is linked to a variety of functions in the body including sleep, hunger, sexual desire and mood. In a study reported in the Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine Wednesday they compared levels of exposure to magnetic fields and the rate of suicide among more than 5,000 electrical workers and an equal number of other men. The number of suicides among the electrical workers was twice as high as in the control group. "The results of this study provide evidence for an association between cumulative exposure of extremely low frequency electromagnetic fields and suicide, especially among young workers," Savitz and his team said in the journal. Younger workers who had the highest exposure rates, particularly in the year before they died, had the highest rate of suicide. The team said the finding suggests younger workers may be more vulnerable to the effects of exposure. "We hypothesize that an increased vulnerability at younger ages may be based on a change in the nature of depression with age, with suicide more closely linked to depression among younger workers," the researchers said. Major depression is not usually associated with physical health and is more common in younger people. Minor depression occurs later in life and is often linked with medical illness. Savitz and his colleagues called for more research into the patterns of exposure to electromagnetic fields and suicide to complement their findings. Farewell, hamdi ucar ;) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 13:22:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA11035; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:21:36 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:21:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200003172119.IAA14830@turbo.turboweb.net.au> X-Mailer: Eudora Pro 1.1 for Newton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:04:00 +1000 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" From: Allan Alderson Subject: Re: ARDA-Chameleon? Resent-Message-ID: <"FLZIw1.0.Di2.K7gqu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14236 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:12:45 0000, James Owen Batchelor wrote: > >Anyone for invisible ARDA? [snip] I'm sure we'd all like to see your info. I sure would. The more wires on the 0AGDP pannel, the larger the capacitance and the lower the resonant freq. of the system. My system is resonant around 7 kHz - and loud! The only thing I can think of right now is tracks (wires) etched (copper) into the surface of a PCB and covered with varnish. - Allan. ---- ---- ---- ---- Reply with a 'text-only' message. adsaa@turboweb.net.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 13:44:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20074; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:44:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:44:11 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: monopoly of energy Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:44:07 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38d2a6a9.5042961@mail.midiowa.net> References: <20000317.102111.-399349.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20000317.102111.-399349.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA20046 Resent-Message-ID: <"CNARv.0.Zv4.gSgqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14237 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tom, On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:21:01 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: >P.S.: Did you know that Shell Oil, one of those darned conspirators, is >one of the poineers in providing cheap solar power to Third World >countries? And, further, that they are exploring alternative energy >sources? If I were a betting man, I'd bet anyone anything that large >companies like Shell will be near the forefront of serious alternative >energy sources in the near future. Yup. BP-Amoco has said they'll be spending $1 billion over the next few years on alternative energy. The oil companies know that oil will be getting more expensive, so people will use less of it. If these companies are to stay in business, they have to get into other lines of business -- and they have experience in the energy area. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 23:42:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA17481; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:42:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:42:02 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: ELF Environmental Lawsuits Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:54:04 -0500 Message-ID: <20000318075404015.AAA268@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"j05Bi.0.-G4.ADpqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14238 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ahoy! This doesn't say what the freqs are, but it does give the decibel level, and it definitely seems to have a negative effect on living creatures. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/mar2000/2000L-03-17-07.html Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 08:16:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA12458; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:15:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:15:44 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:13:07 +0100 Message-Id: <200003181713.SAA28435@ns.f.ubcom.net> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Aquino system shows overunity - rotator article withdrawn Resent-Message-ID: <"drwgi3.0.Y23.lkwqu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14239 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All ! If the measurements of Fran de Aquino can be found to be true, they suggest as well an overunity cycle ! The idea is quite simple and principally known! You build the antenna into the periphery of a bigger centrifuge. Then you switch the ELF oscillator on and accelerate the whole setup at "low" mass to high RPM. If the rotation speed is high enough you switch the oscillator off and decelerate it by braking at "high" mass. Using the abbreviations E_acc = energy for acceleration E_dec = energy for deceleration P_osc = Power to drive the oscillator m' = mass if oscillator is switched on m = mass if oscillator is switched off a = acceleration T = time used for acceleration and deceleration v=a.T = velocity of the ELF resonator we get a energy balance if we assume the inert mass equals the gravitational mass: Acceleration: E_acc= P_osc . T + 1/2 m' . (a.T)^2 Deceleration: E_dec= P_osc . T - 1/2 m . (a.T)^2 ----------------------------------------------------- Sum: energy balance is negative if T is big enough because m > m' ! the quadratic terms dominate the balance at high velocities ! This means possible overunity efficiency ! In principle the cycle is the same as Felix Wuerth uses it. The explanation for these cycle, however, I gave in my rotator article, is wrong and and, therefore, the whole article was withdrawn. On the contrary, in the meantime I can show that the energy balance in the classical mechanical calculation fits quite well acc. to classical energy conservation. Felix explained the experimentally found effect to me by a lower mass during acceleration. He did not tell whether this idea was only the most simple theoretical way out of the dilemma or whether it is backened by a weight measurement of him. The main idea standing behind the Aquino article is : If you pump energy in mass, then under favourable circumstances, if the energy is stored up (in a resonance), the substance gets lighter. Other system are known which could behave similary in this way: 1) The experiment of Peter Fred at http://users.choice.net/~pbfred 2) The experiment of Kowsky and Frost. It will be uploaded uploaded by me in J.L. Naudins vault at http://www.egroups.com/docvault/jlnlabs/ in the next days. This system is similar in some respect and uses probably acousto piezo esonances. (second hand citation after Nieper Revolution in Technik Medizin Gesellschaft Illmer Verlag 1981 p.203. first reference: Radio-Umschau 1.4.1926, vol. 4 Issue 14, p.218-220. probably as well in Science and Invention, Sept.1927. Is mentioned as well in J.Gallimore Planetary Association for Clean Mewsletter February 1981 p.332) It should be noted that the Kowsky and Frost reference state without argumentation, that energy is conserved in their experiments, perhaps because the investigated piezos under electricity behave analogously like a blown up balloon. In the Aquino system this question is not a priori clear. Therefore, our idea is a interesting question. It would be interesting to note what happens to the power transformer if the whole setup is set into motion ! 3) There exist a lot of articles discussing the inert behavior of rotating bodies. Some of these claim a only slight positive (see Hayasaka, Takeuchi Phys.Rev.Lettr. 1989 (63)p.2701; see dePalma The first International Symposium on non-conventional energy technology, Toronto 1982 p.247), the most are negative (see Faller et al. Phys.Rev. Lettr. (64) 1990 p.825, Nitschke et al Phys.Rev.Lettr.(64) 1990,p.2115). Sincerely Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 12:10:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA09390; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:10:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:10:21 -0800 Message-ID: <002201bf9100$68c60a60$779a10cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: <200003172119.IAA14830@turbo.turboweb.net.au> Subject: Re: ARDA-Chameleon? Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:35:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"nK0fI1.0.dI2.iA-qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14240 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Another option is to brush on liquid nickel. Newark Electronics sells this. It is a colloidal suspension of nickel particles. After drying, it should be electrically conductive. A nice way to create electrodes, and much cheaper than silver. ----- Original Message ----- From: Allan Alderson To: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 5:04 AM Subject: Re: ARDA-Chameleon? > On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:12:45 0000, James Owen Batchelor wrote: > > > >Anyone for invisible ARDA? > [snip] > > I'm sure we'd all like to see your info. I sure would. The more wires on > the 0AGDP pannel, the larger the capacitance and the lower the resonant > freq. of the system. My system is resonant around 7 kHz - and loud! > The only thing I can think of right now is tracks (wires) etched (copper) > into the surface of a PCB and covered with varnish. > > - Allan. > ---- ---- ---- ---- > > Reply with a 'text-only' message. > adsaa@turboweb.net.au > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 12:39:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17600; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:38:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:38:45 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:36:23 +0100 Message-Id: <200003182136.WAA03266@ns.f.ubcom.net> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Kowsky-Frost experiment uploaded Resent-Message-ID: <"lHAF_1.0.vI4.Kb-qu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14241 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All ! As promised I have uploaded the zip-file of the Kowsky-Frost experiment in the vault of J.L. Naudins egroup. It is readable after unzipping with any net browser If someone is interested in from freenrg-l he can contact me over the group or privately. Then, the zip-file will be sent as email. A further word to my last email. In second line of the balance is a mistake: the oscillator energy P . T has to be omitted, because the oscillator does not run during decelaration ! This still improves the situation. Sincerely Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 20:22:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06009; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:21:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:21:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:21:37 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: John Hutchison (antigrav experimenter) arrested! In-Reply-To: <200003182136.WAA03266@ns.f.ubcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MEeVH3.0.gT1.PN5ru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14242 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/index.html John Hutchison Raided At Gunpoint By Canadian Police Reporting From Shreveport, Louisiana UNITED STATES Word has been received this morning, Saturday, 18 March 2000, that John Hutchison has been raided at gunpoint by Canadian Police. John's apartment in New Westminster, British Columbia, was raided at 2 PM Friday, 17 March 2000, by gun-wielding police searching for firearms. An antique gun collection owned by Hutchison was confiscated in its entireity. According to Hutchison, a phone call was received at about 2 PM Friday, stating that it was the police, and asking John to answer his door. Hutchison states that there were 8 to 10 individuals pointing weapons at him, only two or three of whom were in uniform. The rest were dressed in dark clothing. Hutchison was handcuffed and placed on the outside steps while police searched the apartment. No warrant was claimed or shown at any time. Police stated only that there had been an anonymous complaint that firearms were being brought into the apartment. Police also called in an "electrical inspector" to examine John's lab equipment. This is the famous "Hutchison apparatus" with which John produces the renowned "Hutchison Effect." Additional individuals dressed in suits were brought in who took extensive photographs of the Hutchison apparatus. Hutchison indicates that these persons had an "official air" about them, and that they might be Government agents, especially given the confiscation of the original Hutchison lab, which took place while John was out of the country in 1990. None of these persons showed any identification. Those who have followed John's career of invention and innovation will recall that his first laboratory was forcibly seized by the Canadian Government on 24 February 1990 by the direct order of former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulruney. The Government has retained the lab in spite of a court order by Judge Paris of the Supreme Court of British Columbia to return it. A previous raid on John Hutchison's apartment involving his collection of antique firearms occured in 1978, and processing took two years. The confiscated antiques were returned at the order of Judge Paris. These events occured under the administration of former PM Joe Clark. The present raid follows close on the heels of a recent successful levitation performed 11 October 1999 which was videotaped by John. The effect was achieved after six days worth of attempts. However, neighbors called local police to complain about Hutchison's experiment. It is unclear whether something in their apartment levitated, although there is no other way known at this time that they could have been aware of the levitation experiment that was in progress. The neighbors in question live across the street from Hutchison. The sound of approaching sirens was recorded on the video soundtrack of Hutchison's camcorder during the experiment, and video of some emergency vehicles and personnel was obtained. Further updates on the situation will be posted promptly on this website. Mark A. Solis Shreveport, LA USA Webmaster for John Hutchison your_neighbor@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 05:32:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA18611; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 05:32:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 05:32:35 -0800 Message-ID: <38D4D713.7FCC@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:33:07 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jacob murphree Subject: Re: time travel References: <001201bf8fcf$3915de80$6c1d1b3f@jacobmur> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6-Rc33.0.iY4.pRDru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14243 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > What do you think about the philidelphia experiment? >From what I have gathered high-frequency, high-intensity mechanical sound tranducers were used. This atomized the surrounding water like one of those humidifiers. The acoustic shocks jumbled the crew's brains. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 19:57:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25889; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:57:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:57:07 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000320115415.00a66100@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:54:15 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! In-Reply-To: <38D22A9E.48929FD4@telusplanet.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20000317130928.00a57600@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GjMGl.0.NK6.I6Qru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14244 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: D Adams wrote: >I don't pretend to be a physicist... but aren't the Maxwellian >equation(s) you refer to really the diluted and severly modified >Heavyside rendition and not really the true original Maxwell version? I have heard these rumours and am strongly inclined to discount them. It is true Maxwell used quaternions in some of his work but I don't know enough about them to give an informed answer. I can assure you that his work has not been suppressed however (as if it was even possible to suppress already published scientific work). Some of his books are still in print and I do not believe the content could be tampered with. I doubt if quaternion expressions contain any more information than the vector expressions using curl, grad and div (which may not have been in common use when he wrote?), but I am only guessing. It is pretty much universally accepted that all four of Maxwells equations were in existence before Maxwell came along (and that is why they have other peoples names such as Gauss' law etc) but Maxwell found an inconsistency between them and a missing term in Faradays law under AC conditions. This "displacement current" term was the missing link which he was able to add and thereby show the existence of Electromagnetic radiation etc. His name is now rightly attributed to the set of *linked* equations. >Perhaps Charles work should be compared to the orignal equations >which focused on 'potentials' to see whether they truly are >contradictory? Faradays law is the more original equation that contradicts Charles' Archetype model. The displacement current term doesn't seem to help out in his case. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 00:45:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA25557; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:44:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:44:58 -0800 Message-ID: <38D5F2C5.F9181137@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 01:43:33 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: John - Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! References: <3.0.6.32.20000317130928.00a57600@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3.0.6.32.20000320115415.00a66100@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2XLuM2.0.EF6.8KUru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14245 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John, Thanks for your thoughtful reply to this.... still, though... I can't help but wonder if T.E. Bearden's and Hoaglands contentions about Maxwell's original work being suppressed has some patina of truth about them. They do make some very intriguing arguments to this end and Hoagland has of course posted that mindbender dissertation supposely distilled from the claimed REAL works of Maxwell on his site... I believe its the Whittaker paper? Cheers, Don John Winterflood wrote: > D Adams wrote: > > >I don't pretend to be a physicist... but aren't the Maxwellian > >equation(s) you refer to really the diluted and severly modified > >Heavyside rendition and not really the true original Maxwell version? > > I have heard these rumours and am strongly inclined to discount them. > It is true Maxwell used quaternions in some of his work but I don't > know enough about them to give an informed answer. I can assure you > that his work has not been suppressed however (as if it was even > possible to suppress already published scientific work). Some of his > books are still in print and I do not believe the content could be > tampered with. I doubt if quaternion expressions contain any more > information than the vector expressions using curl, grad and div > (which may not have been in common use when he wrote?), but I am > only guessing. > > It is pretty much universally accepted that all four of Maxwells > equations were in existence before Maxwell came along (and that > is why they have other peoples names such as Gauss' law etc) but > Maxwell found an inconsistency between them and a missing term > in Faradays law under AC conditions. This "displacement current" > term was the missing link which he was able to add and thereby > show the existence of Electromagnetic radiation etc. His name is > now rightly attributed to the set of *linked* equations. > > >Perhaps Charles work should be compared to the orignal equations > >which focused on 'potentials' to see whether they truly are > >contradictory? > > Faradays law is the more original equation that contradicts Charles' > Archetype model. The displacement current term doesn't seem to > help out in his case. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 20:03:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01761; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:02:42 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:02:42 -0800 (PST) From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:02:25 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38d6f382.194312967@mail.midiowa.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20000317130928.00a57600@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3.0.6.32.20000320115415.00a66100@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000320115415.00a66100@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id UAA01613 Resent-Message-ID: <"8Hikx3.0.BR.RHlru"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14246 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John, I assume you've read Tom Bearden's work on the Maxwell equations. You can find a summary at: http://www.enterprisemission.com/hyper2.html (Yeah, I know it's one of Hoagland's pages, but try ignoring the source and get to the meat.) Years ago I was involved in discussions about quaternions on CompuServe (around 1992-1993). I no longer have the discussion threads, but there was enough to make me reconsider my opposition to the idea. On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:54:15 +0800, John Winterflood wrote: >D Adams wrote: > >>I don't pretend to be a physicist... but aren't the Maxwellian >>equation(s) you refer to really the diluted and severly modified >>Heavyside rendition and not really the true original Maxwell version? > >I have heard these rumours and am strongly inclined to discount them. >It is true Maxwell used quaternions in some of his work but I don't >know enough about them to give an informed answer. I can assure you >that his work has not been suppressed however (as if it was even >possible to suppress already published scientific work). Some of his >books are still in print and I do not believe the content could be >tampered with. I doubt if quaternion expressions contain any more >information than the vector expressions using curl, grad and div >(which may not have been in common use when he wrote?), but I am >only guessing. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 20:14:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31081; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:13:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:13:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:13:06 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: J. Decker & B. Perrault exchange: Tesla patents Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XUelM2.0.Xb7.QRlru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14247 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I received the following message. What is this about? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:09:40 -0600 From: "Jerry W. Decker" To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: Copyright Violation Hi Folks! I thought you needed to know about this, please inform all your friends and contacts about this, an illegal scam from this person. Please publish it in your magazines and through your networks so that the free energy community will finally banish such people. ================== My response to Bruce Perrault on being told I must remove the Tesla patents which HE had COPYRIGHTED...HA! How DARE you threaten me by claiming to PATENT TESLAs patents.... You need to call a lawyer before you make such idiotic threats. You cannot copyright patents that have LONG been in the public domaind and that you did not write. Your unmitigated gall is without bounds and I plan for forward your correspondence and post it publicly so people can see what a con artist you are. I discussed it with my lawyer and he said you had no legal standing...he also says if you make threats to me about it or send any legal documents, to bring them to him immediately and he will determine our course of action....including the distinct possibility of harassment since I have all the emails you've pestered me with over the years. You cannot stop, despite all the times I've asked, then demanded that you leave me alone and take your criminal scams to those gullible enough to believe your lies. You know I have the email where you admitted that your SOLE PURPOSE for joining a mailing or discussion list, anywhere, WAS TO ADVERTISE YOUR JUNK to a captive audience.. So play your games with someone you can bluster...bother me again with your insanity and risk the consequences...you should know better by now. Your email has been shared with many who will recognize your game...I'm ready for you anytime peewee and I'll be seeking serious DAMAGES...from a JURY trial...so crawl back under your rock. ==================== "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > > Dear Jerry Decker, > > Please remove the Canadian and Britis Tesla Patents > from you site at, > > http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/ > > These are my copyrighted files under ISBN 1-930216-00-9 > > If these are not removed then you will receive a request > in writing to remove them from your site. If you do not > comply then I will file suite against you for copyright > infringement. > > Respectfully Submitted, Mr. Bruce A. Perreault -- KeelyNet - From an Art to a Science Jerry W. Decker - http://www.keelynet.com/ discussion archives http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/ KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, TX 75187 - 214.324.8741 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 20:41:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA04700; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:39:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:39:46 -0800 Message-Id: <200003210440.AA00719@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> From: Motoe Suzuki Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:40:28 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: It's a Fake. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"i823B3.0.A91.Hqlru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14248 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear J.L.Naudin, In your Home Page, you show the link to the "Genesis Project" by Mr.Ito Nayado, http://geocities.com/nayado/. That is, A Free Energy generator with a negative inductor. Do you think that his Home Page has something interesting? Have you checked if this is a fake or not? I know it's a fake. I know his autonym. He has made some experimental setup which are shown in Photos, but he has conducted no experiments at all. The theory he proposes has no experimental support, no physical evidence. He pretends to have succeeded in obtaining some novel O/U results. But, actually, he only enjoys cheating. ///////// From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 22:21:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14004; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:20:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:20:38 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <36.37d149d.26086e91@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 01:20:01 EST Subject: Re: It's a Fake. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA13890 Resent-Message-ID: <"nXJ3B2.0.eQ3.sInru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14249 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 21/03/00 05:45:06 Paris, Madrid, motoe@popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp a écrit : > I know it's a fake. I know his autonym. He has made some experimental > setup > which are shown in Photos, but he has conducted no experiments at all. > The theory he proposes has no experimental support, no physical evidence. > > He pretends to have succeeded in obtaining some novel O/U results. > But, actually, he only enjoys cheating. > Thanks for your advices. Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 22:30:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06838; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:30:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:30:14 -0800 Message-ID: <38D72156.9A57B4CD@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:14:30 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: It's a Fake. References: <200003210440.AA00719@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LfNEa1.0.hg1.rRnru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14250 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: how do you know its a fake other than speculation? Motoe Suzuki wrote: > Dear J.L.Naudin, > > In your Home Page, you show the link to the "Genesis Project" by Mr.Ito > Nayado, http://geocities.com/nayado/. That is, A Free Energy generator with a > negative inductor. > Do you think that his Home Page has something interesting? > Have you checked if this is a fake or not? > I know it's a fake. I know his autonym. He has made some experimental setup > which are shown in Photos, but he has conducted no experiments at all. > The theory he proposes has no experimental support, no physical evidence. > He pretends to have succeeded in obtaining some novel O/U results. > But, actually, he only enjoys cheating. > > ///////// From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 23:23:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA11476; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:23:03 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:23:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38D7236E.4A80@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:23:26 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, jdecker@keelynet.com Subject: Re: J. Decker & B. Perrault exchange: Tesla patents References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vqx09.0.4p2.JDoru"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14251 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill, Looks like old Jerry is up to his neck in hate again. I have been receiving hate mail from someone in the last few weeks who are using my guestbook. They have been signing Jerry's name. It appears here that it is really him. We can not say for certain because the email sigatures have been wiped clean and the messages were through the guestbook that another server handles. If anyone wants proof that Jerry is posting the Canadian and British Tesla Patents that have been compiled onto cd-rom by me then look at a copy from someone who has bought this cd-rom from my website. You will discover that the files have the same exact date stamps and creation times right down to the last second. This would be impossible to duplicate. As for Jerry's statement that I am a scam... this is disparaging and defamatory. People that this is not true. My life is my research. I have made many contributions to these lists. Yes, I have made cd-rom collections and offer them for a very reasonable price. It took my own money and many late hours to compile them. The time stamps show the wee hours of the night I often have to work. The items that are sold on my website by no means have made me alot of money but what they have made has supported some of my research. It is an honest way to raise funds. Shortly after the Tesla Patent cd-rom was released for publication Jerry and his friends went and posted them for free on the internet. I have lost money because of Jerry's hate for me. I will be sending Jerry Decker a legal notice asking him to quit his copyright violations and public hate against my person. Sincerely, Bruce A. Perreault William Beaty wrote: > > I received the following message. What is this about? > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:09:40 -0600 > From: "Jerry W. Decker" > To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net > Subject: Re: Copyright Violation > > Hi Folks! > > I thought you needed to know about this, please inform all > your friends and contacts about this, an illegal scam from > this person. Please publish it in your magazines and > through your networks so that the free energy community will > finally banish such people. > ================== > > My response to Bruce Perrault on being told I must remove > the Tesla patents which HE had COPYRIGHTED...HA! > > How DARE you threaten me by claiming to PATENT TESLAs > patents.... > > You need to call a lawyer before you make such idiotic > threats. > > You cannot copyright patents that have LONG been in the > public domaind and that you did not write. > > Your unmitigated gall is without bounds and I plan for > forward your correspondence and post it publicly so people > can see what a con artist you are. > > I discussed it with my lawyer and he said you had no legal > standing...he also says if you make threats to me about it > or send any legal documents, to bring them to him > immediately and he will determine our course of > action....including the distinct possibility of harassment > since I have all the emails you've pestered me with over the > years. You cannot stop, despite all the times I've asked, > then demanded that you leave me alone and take your criminal > scams to those gullible enough to believe your lies. > > You know I have the email where you admitted that your SOLE > PURPOSE for joining a mailing or discussion list, anywhere, > WAS TO ADVERTISE YOUR JUNK to a captive audience.. > > So play your games with someone you can bluster...bother me > again with your insanity and risk the consequences...you > should know better by now. Your email has been shared with > many who will recognize your game...I'm ready for you > anytime peewee and I'll be seeking serious DAMAGES...from a > JURY trial...so crawl back under your rock. > > ==================== > "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > > > > Dear Jerry Decker, > > > > Please remove the Canadian and Britis Tesla Patents > > from you site at, > > > > http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/ > > > > These are my copyrighted files under ISBN 1-930216-00-9 > > > > If these are not removed then you will receive a request > > in writing to remove them from your site. If you do not > > comply then I will file suite against you for copyright > > infringement. > > > > Respectfully Submitted, Mr. Bruce A. Perreault > > -- > KeelyNet - From an Art to a Science > Jerry W. Decker - http://www.keelynet.com/ > discussion archives http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/ > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, TX 75187 - 214.324.8741 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 04:37:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA06982; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:36:51 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:36:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38D76CD7.37D8@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:37:03 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: InterNet Ink Canada CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, Ted Windsor , Jerry Decker Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents References: <3.0.32.20000320235241.0079f750@mail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C2UNY2.0.xi1.Xpsru"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14252 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear InterNet Canada, The proof that the Canadian and British Tesla Patents were compiled by me is in the date stamp on these files. Anyone who has bought a copy of my cd-rom can tell you this. Just compare them with the files that are posted on the internet. Patent B8200 is just one example. The date reads 6/16/98 12:02:25 You will discover that the file has the same exact date stamps and creation time right down to the last second. This would be impossible to duplicate. To find this go to "File," to "Document Info," and then to "General," in your Acrobat Reader. You will clearly see that this file was created almost one year before your stated "May 27, 1999" upload date. Additionally I have emails between the British Patent office and myself. I can also dig up the payment receipt for research fee and the fee to obtain patent copies. Oh yes, I forgot about the British Patent 8200 that was first obtained by me that begain my search. I also have a copy of the payment for this patent. Take notice here that until I did the research that the Canadian and British Patents were never available to the public. No person had the patent numbers to order copies. I spent alot of time and a good sum of money to make them available to the public. I charge a very reasonable fee for a copy of these patents on cd-rom. The U.S. Patents are an added bonus and is part of the compiled work. I have even added pictures obtained from the internet, zipped files, formulas, schematic, etc. Shortly after official publication of this cd-rom Jerry Decker and his friends turned around and posted the patents for free without my consent. Because of this I have lost who knows how much money that could have been used for my research. I am a struggling inventor and any extra money goes a long way. I would not have been opposed to anyone posting my these patents if credit was giving to me and a small donation asked to further my researches. I did not have to file an official copywrite on this "compiled work." Under new copywrite law the work became copywrited when the work was published. According to my ISBN documented registration this occurred on December 1998. If you wish I will send you copies of all documentation. Respectfully, Bruce A. Perreault InterNet Ink Canada wrote: > > Dear Ted, > > I have taken another look at the Tesla related files on your web site. We > had asked Mr. Perreault for any documentation that might suggest that he or > anyone else has gained copyright to any public information. > I have re-checked the files and the dates and times suggested by Mr. > Perreault. The dates and times of the files on your site alluded to by Mr. > Perreault are the dates and times that the files were transfered to the > server of your web site. Our logs confirm this. > > I have also checked several of the files looking for any "signature" and > found none that would identify any of the files as having been copyright to > or by Mr. Perreault. > > Mr. Perreault may very well have copyright on his CD product. However, the > information contained therein, the Tesla patents, are still, at last look, > in the public domain. Just as your web site is copyright, some of the > information contained within the site is public domain... Tesla patents for > example. > > I suggest that if Mr. Perreault wishes to persue the matter that he should > honor our first request and provide documentation that he has in fact been > able to copyright public domain information and that he or his company or > representative are in fact the sole or partner owners of the Tesla patent > information. To date, we only have the writings of Mr. Perreault claiming > to own public domain property. > > I would suggest that if the dates on Mr. Perreault's CD match exactly those > on your Tesla site, that whom ever provided Mr. Perreault with the contents > to his CD may have copied them from your site. Evidence of this exists > within the sub-directory on your Tesla site. The Sub-directory was created > on May 27, 1999. Each file transfered is also dated May 27, 1999. If the CD > files echo the same date, the files on the CD were then taken from your > site and not the reverse as has been suggested. > > Unfortunately, the world of the Internet as it is breeds distrust and > demands caution. While Mr. Perreault may, and I stress 'may' have some > ownership, our request for confirmation has been ignored. > > Should you receive confirmation of ownership of the patents, please confirm > with your instructions. > > Thank you > > InterNet Ink Canada > > ======================================================= > > At 11:08 PM 20/03/00 -0800, you wrote: > > >>Return-Path: > >>X-Sender: helpinghandconsulting@helpinghandconsulting.com > >>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:01:04 -0800 > >>To: jdix@home.com > >>From: Ted Windsor > >>Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents > >> > >>>Return-Path: > >>>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:24:56 -0500 > >>>From: "Bruce A. Perreault" > >>>Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net > >>>Organization: Nu Energy Horizons > >>>To: hhc@helpinghandconsulting.com > >>>Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents > >>> > >>>Dear Helping Hand Consulting, > >>> > >>>Today I confirmed that the Patents on your site had > >>>indeed been created on my cd-rom burner. The signatures > >>>match exactly! Check the date of creation on these files. > >>>The dates and EXACT time, right down to the last second > >>>can be compared to any cd-rom that I have sold. > >>> > >>> > >>>I am asking you politely to please remove these from your > >>>site. You can request a copy of my collection to compare > >>>date and time of creation. Duplication of these files right > >>>down to the last second is impossible. Several of my customers > >>>would testify to the date stamps on their copies. > >>> > >>> > >>> Respectfully Submitted, Bruce A. Perreault > >>> > >> > > > InterNet Ink Canada (Since 1993) > Internet Marketing Strategies > 828 Ogden Road > Kelowna, B.C. Canada V1Z 1R1 > [250] 769-5080 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 05:27:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA30318; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:26:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:26:45 -0800 Sender: jack@pop.centurytel.net Message-ID: <38D786DA.4406E746@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:27:38 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! References: <3.0.6.32.20000317130928.00a57600@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3.0.6.32.20000320115415.00a66100@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <38d6f382.194312967 @mail.midiowa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"8kat12.0.ZP7.KYtru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14253 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dean T. Miller wrote: Hi John [Winterflood], I assume you've read Tom Bearden's work on the Maxwell equations. You can find a summary at: http://www.enterprisemission.com/hyper2.html Hi Dean, Quoting from the above and following web pages: "... Over 30 years of attempted confirmation of the Sun's basic energy source -- in the form of solar/terrestrial observations of tiny atomic particles called "neutrinos," ... -- have left laboratory physicists and astrophysicists with a major astronomical enigma: The Sun is not emitting anything like the number of neutrinos required by the "Standard Solar Model" for its observed energy emission; if its energy is due to "thermo-nuclear reactions" (as the Standard Model demands), then the observed "neutrino deficit" is upwards of 60%: even more remarkable, certain kinds of primary neutrinos (calculated as required to explain the bulk of the solar interior's fusion reactions, based on laboratory measurements) turn out to be simply missing altogether! So -- what really fuels the Sun? ... In the Hyperdimensional Model, the Sun's primary energy source -- like the planets' -- must be driven by its total angular momentum -- its own "spin momentum," plus the total angular momentum of the planetary masses orbiting around it ..." This stuff is fascinating (added to the poltergeists which Scott doesn't have in his lab, I'm going into mental overload). Are there any negative critiques of the Hyperdimensional Model which you can refer me to so that I can regain some mental balance? Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 06:14:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00498; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 06:13:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 06:13:41 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:57:09 -0500 Subject: Re:Decker & Perreault exchange, et al Message-ID: <20000321.090239.-441057.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-7,12-21 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"um3ZT.0.a7.KEuru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14254 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Questions: Are the Tesla patents in question public domain or not? If they are, then how is it that Mr. Perreault can claim copyright? I'm just a little confused because the information itself would be public domain, wouldn't it? Did Mr. Decker preserve special formating unique to Mr. Perreault's publication? Why is this *legal* mess being brought to this list? Incidentally, it seems strange to hear Mr. Perreault complaining that he is losing his investment through Mr. Decker's posting because Mr. Perreault himself has several times maligned capitalism and stated that information should be free and he was releasing his information to the public for the common good, etc... Deus Donna Nobis Pacem -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- A sign on a Tennessee highway: "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 06:27:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA07918; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 06:26:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 06:26:59 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:26:57 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: J. Decker & B. Perrault exchange: Tesla patents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gOF0_.0.dx1.pQuru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14255 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, William Beaty wrote: > > I received the following message. What is this about? > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:09:40 -0600 > From: "Jerry W. Decker" > To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net > Subject: Re: Copyright Violation > > Hi Folks! > > I thought you needed to know about this, please inform all > your friends and contacts about this, an illegal scam from > this person. Please publish it in your magazines and > through your networks so that the free energy community will > finally banish such people. > ================== > > > > My response to Bruce Perrault on being told I must remove > the Tesla patents which HE had COPYRIGHTED...HA! > > How DARE you threaten me by claiming to PATENT TESLAs > patents.... > > ==================== > "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > > > > Dear Jerry Decker, > > > > Please remove the Canadian and Britis Tesla Patents > > from you site at, > > > > http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/ > > > > These are my copyrighted files under ISBN 1-930216-00-9 > > Bruce and Jerry have been at odds for a while. Those of us who have taken the time to get to know Bruce and really study his work know he is onto something for real. Bruce even gave an ISBN number above. It would be easy enough to find out what that covers. Note Bruce said "copyrighted", not "patented". It appears Jerry Decker doesn't know the difference in those two terms. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 07:07:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25750; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:07:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:07:12 -0800 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re:Decker & Perreault exchange, et al Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:54:50 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <20000321.090239.-441057.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20000321.090239.-441057.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00032110183401.19472@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA25638 Resent-Message-ID: <"hTOTH.0.FI6.W0vru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14256 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > Questions: > > Are the Tesla patents in question public domain or not? If they are, > then how is it that Mr. Perreault can claim copyright? I'm just a little > confused because the information itself would be public domain, wouldn't > it? Did Mr. Decker preserve special formating unique to Mr. Perreault's > publication? Why is this *legal* mess being brought to this list? All patents are public domain, in the sense that they can be freely copied, etc. I can go to the library, photocopy a patent and post to the world. Likewise, I can go to the National Archives and photograph the Constitution of the United States and post that. I can not, however, post a copy of the same document taken from a textbook, since the copy in the book is copyrighted, The same goes for these patents. Bruce spent the time and money to make the compilation, and as such this compilation constitutes a creative work. Anything derived from this requires Bruce to be compensated. There is nothing stopping Decker, et. al. from securing thier own copies and posting those. > > Incidentally, it seems strange to hear Mr. Perreault complaining that he > is losing his investment through Mr. Decker's posting because Mr. > Perreault himself has several times maligned capitalism and stated that > information should be free and he was releasing his information to the > public for the common good, etc... There is a difference. If Bruce were to charge $150 for the CD, yeah, I'd say he was in it for the money. I believe he was charging $15 for these. I think this is fair compensation. If Bruce is really a capitalist in disguise, he is doing a poor job at it. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 08:58:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02528; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:57:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:57:44 -0800 Message-ID: <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:58:11 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a8YPV3.0.Pd.7ewru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14257 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > > I got the CD-ROM last night. Such fast service - I didn't know you had 100 > telephone operators waiting to take my order. Quite the opposite... I get very few orders. I like to get them right out within 24 hours because Linsay Publications impressed me soi much when I had ordered from them. It is simply good business. > > I already read the first (as it was only 16 pages) and yes it was kind of vague. > I'm reading the second edition now. Were the underlined parts done by you or by > someone else. If not you, who did them? The underlines could have been made by T. H. Moray himself. The second edition was from Moray's typewriter and very few copies were made. I believe only five were made and given to close associates. I got a copy from one of these associates. I was real lucky to have found all the information that is now compiled into the cd-rom. It is a result of many years of talking to people who had contact with Moray. -BAP Again, thanks for the fast service! Martin. "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org > > Martin, > > Start with the second edition. The first is very vaugue. > The third to the fifth become progressively watered down. > > -BAP > > MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > > > I recently ordered the 'T. H. Moray Blockbuster Collection' CD-ROM and > > I expect it to arrive soon (I hope!). Is there a preferred order to > > read it in, such as chronological order or should I go straight to 4th > > edition of Sea of Energy and only dip into the other three as needed? > > > > I guess I am just trying to avoid any 'mind traps' that can happen if I > > read them in a certain order. > > > > Martin. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 09:59:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA27156; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:59:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:59:08 -0800 Message-ID: <001401bf935e$d7bf2360$d9d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <200003210440.AA00719@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> Subject: Re: It's a Fake. Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:56:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"GDAku1.0.9e6.hXxru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14258 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Regardless of whether it's a fake or not, it's involved with free energy. Mr. Beaty has a vast range of ideas and devices on or linked to his page. I don't believe the criteria for something on or linked to the site is "free energy machine"...even if the inventor claims that it is. ----- Original Message ----- From: Motoe Suzuki To: Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 11:40 PM Subject: It's a Fake. > Dear J.L.Naudin, > > In your Home Page, you show the link to the "Genesis Project" by Mr.Ito > Nayado, http://geocities.com/nayado/. That is, A Free Energy generator with a > negative inductor. > Do you think that his Home Page has something interesting? > Have you checked if this is a fake or not? > I know it's a fake. I know his autonym. He has made some experimental setup > which are shown in Photos, but he has conducted no experiments at all. > The theory he proposes has no experimental support, no physical evidence. > He pretends to have succeeded in obtaining some novel O/U results. > But, actually, he only enjoys cheating. > > ///////// > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 10:01:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA27983; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:00:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:00:54 -0800 Message-ID: <38D7C3D6.E38B84C6@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:47:50 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Decker & Perreault exchange, et al References: <20000321.090239.-441057.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> <00032110183401.19472@cougar> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZsaYf.0.zq6.LZxru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14259 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: so it sounds like Decker is the one who's out of line here again....? Charlie Hodgson wrote: > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > > Questions: > > > > Are the Tesla patents in question public domain or not? If they are, > > then how is it that Mr. Perreault can claim copyright? I'm just a little > > confused because the information itself would be public domain, wouldn't > > it? Did Mr. Decker preserve special formating unique to Mr. Perreault's > > publication? Why is this *legal* mess being brought to this list? > > All patents are public domain, in the sense that they can be freely > copied, etc. I can go to the library, photocopy a patent and post to > the world. > > Likewise, I can go to the National Archives and > photograph the Constitution of the United States and post that. I > can not, however, post a copy of the same document taken from a > textbook, since the copy in the book is copyrighted, > > The same goes for these patents. Bruce spent the time and money to > make the compilation, and as such this compilation constitutes a > creative work. Anything derived from this requires Bruce to be > compensated. > > There is nothing stopping Decker, et. al. from securing thier own > copies and posting those. > > > > > Incidentally, it seems strange to hear Mr. Perreault complaining that he > > is losing his investment through Mr. Decker's posting because Mr. > > Perreault himself has several times maligned capitalism and stated that > > information should be free and he was releasing his information to the > > public for the common good, etc... > > There is a difference. If Bruce were to charge $150 for the CD, yeah, > I'd say he was in it for the money. I believe he was charging $15 for > these. I think this is fair compensation. If Bruce is really a > capitalist in disguise, he is doing a poor job at it. > > Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 10:36:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10784; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:36:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:36:21 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:36:10 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Decker & Perreault exchange, et al In-Reply-To: <38D7C3D6.E38B84C6@telusplanet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kg4Oa1.0.Oe2.Z4yru"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14260 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, D Adams wrote: > so it sounds like Decker is the one who's out of line here again....? > IF he in fact got a copy of Bruce's CD-ROM and just put the files on his site without Bruce's permission, then my understanding is that he is guilty of copyright infringement. If he wants to spend hundreds of hours scanning the original materials himself and posting them on his site, then he is not guilty of any infringement. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 18:17:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31498; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:16:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:16:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:16:28 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oAW2z3.0.rh7.0q2su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14261 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I received some anonymous email stating that the "gravity-warp capacitor" on my website was built, and it lifts itself into the air when powered by a VDG machine, with thrust about 4x higher than its weight, thrusting axially according to polarity, and the thrust continues when the VDG is turned off. Has anyone here tried building http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html ? I suspected a hoax, so I never had the time to expend the large amount of labor required. My thought is, if it can lift its own weight, then MAYBE a single foil-paper-foil layer can also lift its own weight. If so, then it would be VERY easy to verify this claim without having to build the entire darned capacitor. Just add enough layers so that you were certain that it wasn't just electrostatic repulsion or something. Make it hover around the room, lifting a small counterweight as a balloon would. Or spin a small wheel for hours if mounted tangentially on the rim? Note that it's HIGH VOLTAGE and a CAPACITOR. Easy to kill yourself unless you can keep the value down below 100pF or so. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 21:05:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22238; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:04:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:04:04 -0800 Message-ID: <38D861E7.1DE9486E@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:02:16 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Aquino system shows overunity - rotator article withdrawn References: <200003181713.SAA28435@ns.f.ubcom.net> <38D82C05.4CF7FEB6@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7wAlV.0.IR5.4H5su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14262 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: D Adams wrote: > anyone have further comments on this? > > W.D. BAUER wrote: > >> Hello All ! >> >> If the measurements of Fran de Aquino can be found to be true, they >> suggest >> as well an overunity cycle ! The idea is quite simple and >> principally known! >> >> You build the antenna into the periphery of a bigger centrifuge. >> Then you >> switch the ELF oscillator on and accelerate the whole setup at "low" >> mass to >> high RPM. >> If the rotation speed is high enough you switch the oscillator off >> and >> decelerate it by braking at "high" mass. >> >> Using the abbreviations >> >> E_acc = energy for acceleration >> E_dec = energy for deceleration >> P_osc = Power to drive the oscillator >> m' = mass if oscillator is switched on >> m = mass if oscillator is switched off >> a = acceleration >> T = time used for acceleration and deceleration >> v=a.T = velocity of the ELF resonator >> >> we get a energy balance if we assume the inert mass equals the >> gravitational mass: >> >> Acceleration: E_acc= P_osc . T + 1/2 m' . (a.T)^2 >> >> Deceleration: E_dec= P_osc . T - 1/2 m . (a.T)^2 >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> Sum: energy balance is negative if T is big enough because m > m' ! >> the quadratic terms dominate the balance at high velocities ! >> >> This means possible overunity efficiency ! >> >> In principle the cycle is the same as Felix Wuerth uses it. The >> explanation >> for these cycle, however, I gave in my rotator article, is wrong and >> and, >> therefore, the whole article was withdrawn. On the contrary, in the >> meantime >> I can show that the energy balance in the classical mechanical >> calculation >> fits quite well acc. to classical energy conservation. >> Felix explained the experimentally found effect to me by a lower >> mass during >> acceleration. He did not tell whether this idea was only the most >> simple >> theoretical way out of the dilemma or whether it is backened by a >> weight >> measurement of him. >> >> The main idea standing behind the Aquino article is : >> If you pump energy in mass, then under favourable circumstances, if >> the >> energy is stored up (in a resonance), the substance gets lighter. >> >> Other system are known which could behave similary in this way: >> >> 1) The experiment of Peter Fred at http://users.choice.net/~pbfred >> >> 2) The experiment of Kowsky and Frost. >> It will be uploaded uploaded by me in J.L. Naudins vault at >> http://www.egroups.com/docvault/jlnlabs/ in the next days. This >> system is >> similar in some respect and uses probably acousto piezo esonances. >> (second hand citation after Nieper Revolution in Technik Medizin >> Gesellschaft >> Illmer Verlag 1981 p.203. first reference: Radio-Umschau 1.4.1926, >> vol. 4 >> Issue 14, p.218-220. probably as well in Science and Invention, >> Sept.1927. >> Is mentioned as well in J.Gallimore Planetary Association for Clean >> Mewsletter February 1981 p.332) >> >> It should be noted that the Kowsky and Frost reference state without >> >> argumentation, that energy is conserved in their experiments, >> perhaps >> because the investigated piezos under electricity behave analogously >> like a >> blown up balloon. In the Aquino system this question is not a priori >> clear. >> Therefore, our idea is a interesting question. It would be >> interesting to >> note what happens to the power transformer if the whole setup is set >> into >> motion ! >> >> 3) There exist a lot of articles discussing the inert behavior of >> rotating >> bodies. Some of these claim a only slight positive (see Hayasaka, >> Takeuchi >> Phys.Rev.Lettr. 1989 (63)p.2701; see dePalma The first International >> >> Symposium on non-conventional energy technology, Toronto 1982 >> p.247), the >> most are negative (see Faller et al. Phys.Rev. Lettr. (64) 1990 >> p.825, >> Nitschke et al Phys.Rev.Lettr.(64) 1990,p.2115). >> >> >> Sincerely >> >> Dieter Bauer > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 21:05:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22266; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:04:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:04:08 -0800 Message-ID: <38D861FD.531566CA@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:02:37 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: John Hutchison (antigrav experimenter) arrested! References: <38D82B47.A8F2A9E6@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m963s.0.lR5.6H5su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14263 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: D Adams wrote: > That is completely despicable! I'm a Canadian, and I consider what > they've done to > John to be nothing less than tyrannical! If anyone comes across > updated news on this > I would love to hear about it. > > Don > > William Beaty wrote: > >> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) >> ))))))))))))))))))))) >> William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST >> website >> billb@eskimo.com >> http://www.amasci.com >> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird >> science >> Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L >> webhead-L >> >> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/index.html >> >> John Hutchison Raided At Gunpoint >> By Canadian Police >> >> Reporting From Shreveport, Louisiana >> UNITED STATES >> >> Word has been received this morning, Saturday, 18 March 2000, >> that >> John Hutchison has been raided at gunpoint by Canadian Police. >> >> John's apartment in New Westminster, British Columbia, was >> raided at >> 2 PM Friday, 17 March 2000, by gun-wielding police searching for >> firearms. >> An antique gun collection owned by Hutchison was confiscated in its >> entireity. >> >> According to Hutchison, a phone call was received at about 2 PM >> >> Friday, stating that it was the police, and asking John to answer >> his >> door. Hutchison states that there were 8 to 10 individuals pointing >> >> weapons at him, only two or three of whom were in uniform. The rest >> were >> dressed in dark clothing. >> >> Hutchison was handcuffed and placed on the outside steps while >> police >> searched the apartment. No warrant was claimed or shown at any >> time. >> Police stated only that there had been an anonymous complaint that >> firearms were being brought into the apartment. >> >> Police also called in an "electrical inspector" to examine >> John's lab >> equipment. This is the famous "Hutchison apparatus" with which John >> >> produces the renowned "Hutchison Effect." >> >> Additional individuals dressed in suits were brought in who >> took >> extensive photographs of the Hutchison apparatus. Hutchison >> indicates >> that these persons had an "official air" about them, and that they >> might >> be Government agents, especially given the confiscation of the >> original >> Hutchison lab, which took place while John was out of the country in >> 1990. >> None of these persons showed any identification. >> >> Those who have followed John's career of invention and >> innovation >> will recall that his first laboratory was forcibly seized by the >> Canadian >> Government on 24 February 1990 by the direct order of former >> Canadian >> Prime Minister Brian Mulruney. The Government has retained the lab >> in >> spite of a court order by Judge Paris of the Supreme Court of >> British >> Columbia to return it. >> >> A previous raid on John Hutchison's apartment involving his >> collection of antique firearms occured in 1978, and processing took >> two >> years. The confiscated antiques were returned at the order of Judge >> >> Paris. These events occured under the administration of former PM >> Joe >> Clark. >> >> The present raid follows close on the heels of a recent >> successful >> levitation performed 11 October 1999 which was videotaped by John. >> The >> effect was achieved after six days worth of attempts. >> >> However, neighbors called local police to complain about >> Hutchison's >> experiment. It is unclear whether something in their apartment >> levitated, >> although there is no other way known at this time that they could >> have >> been aware of the levitation experiment that was in progress. The >> neighbors in question live across the street from Hutchison. >> >> The sound of approaching sirens was recorded on the video >> soundtrack >> of Hutchison's camcorder during the experiment, and video of some >> emergency vehicles and personnel was obtained. >> >> Further updates on the situation will be posted promptly on >> this >> website. >> >> Mark A. Solis >> Shreveport, LA USA >> Webmaster for John Hutchison >> your_neighbor@geocities.com >> >> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/index.html > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 22:11:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11122; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:10:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:10:39 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 06:10:56 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38de638a.288529353@mail.midiowa.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20000317130928.00a57600@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3.0.6.32.20000320115415.00a66100@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <38d6f382.194312967 @mail.midiowa.net> <38D786DA.4406E746@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> In-Reply-To: <38D786DA.4406E746@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA11082 Resent-Message-ID: <"OGC9D2.0.dj2.UF6su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14264 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jack, On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:27:38 +0000, "Taylor J. Smith" wrote: >Are there any negative critiques of the Hyperdimensional Model >which you can refer me to so that I can regain some mental >balance? I haven't looked into that model, and I suspect there are plenty of criticisms, valid or not. :) I wish I had the time to investigate everything of interest to me. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 04:06:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA07423; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 04:05:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 04:05:47 -0800 Message-ID: <38D8B73E.7326@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:06:22 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: InterNet Ink Canada CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents References: <3.0.32.20000321224223.0079f270@mail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rKCs3.0.up1.QSBsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14265 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: InterNet Ink Canada wrote: > > Mr. Perreault > > I followed your instructions and indeed the file dates and times do > correspond to those mentioned in your email (below). I note too that the > Title, Subject, and Author are all blank. I did not fill in the Title, Subject, and Author because it would have been too time consuming. The date stamp should be proof enough. > > Permission was sought from a Mr. Fred Walters to 'mirror' the files on his > web site. Upon receiving permission, HHC contracted us to copy those files > from Mr. Walters site to the HHC web site. The problem is that Mr. Fred Walters does not own the work, nor does his associate Jerry Decker. > > There remains reasonable concern over copyright property and how anyone > can copyright patent material. There is no doubt in that you may own > copyright to your CD. An analogy would be how a magazine will copyright > it's material but if a magazine were to publish the bibles Ten Commandments > and many have, are the commandments then the property of the publishing > magazine? Of course not. If the Ten Commandments are published in a magazine you can not photocopy them from that magazine without permission. > > The work you claim to have done is admirable and ownership of the CD is > respected. I understand your frustration in having paying the patent > offices for copys and research, but summarrily, paying for a copy does not, > as I am given to understand, give one copyright. Just as paying for a > photocopy of the Ten Commandments does not give one ownership of the contents. Technically it is the scans that are copyrighted. If a person like Jerry Decker or Mr. Fred Walters wishes to buy copies from the patent office and then spend countless hours scanning them on the computer then they may post these to their websites or even sell them in a "compiled work" with other materials added. > > If you wish to claim that the work you did in creating the pdf files and > copying that to a CD is your property, I would, given the proper supporting > documentaion tend to agree with you. However, you have claimed ownership of > the material. No, I am not claiming that the patents belong to me, this would be absurd. What I am claiming is my copyright. > > Please keep in mind that anyone can lay claim as you have and that we have > requested supportive documentation on three occasions. Our postal address > is below. Again, please forward a copy of ownership copyright. Upon receipt > of same and clarification, we would be pleased to entertain negotiations. I will forward to you all documentation. Please understand that I do not put blame on you for this misunderstanding. As you have said, "Permission was sought from a Mr. Fred Walters to 'mirror' the files on his web site." However, it would be of good faith if you will honor my request to give me credit for my research and to request a donation in a way that your clients do not feel obligated, but would be a gift from the heart. It is not my intent to bring suite against anyone. I just want credit for my work. Respectfully, Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 08:18:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08707; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:17:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:17:44 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:17:01 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: GDP Chameleon X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e3lpN.0.y72.d8Fsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14266 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, I have emailed the data for my GDP Chameleon skin to Jnaudin509@aol.com . What do you make of it, Jean-Louis? James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 08:39:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA16362; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:39:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:39:03 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:38:26 EST Subject: Re: GDP Chameleon To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA16345 Resent-Message-ID: <"Is4aU1.0.Z_3.dSFsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14267 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 22/03/00 17:21:57 Paris, Madrid, finalheaven@angelfire.com a écrit : > Dear All, > > I have emailed the data for my GDP Chameleon skin to Jnaudin509@aol.com . > What do you make of it, Jean-Louis? > > > James O. Batchelor > Hi James, Thanks for your sending, I am a bit busy by another project at this moment, so I shall post your proposal in my web site ASAP. Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 09:48:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA07182; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:48:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:48:24 -0800 Message-ID: <00b601bf9426$d0e06c20$fb2f9fca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: "freenrg L" References: Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:48:15 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"erJ6R3.0.3m1.dTGsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14268 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I remember this, but I thought I ought to review the material so I tried to visit your website(s) [ Eskimo and amasci. No dice. Is your website down or did we lose you to the MIB ? ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: 2000 March 22, Wednesday 09:16 Subject: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? | | I received some anonymous email stating that the "gravity-warp capacitor" | on my website was built, and it lifts itself into the air when powered by | a VDG machine, with thrust about 4x higher than its weight, thrusting | axially according to polarity, and the thrust continues when the VDG is | turned off. | | Has anyone here tried building http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html ? | I suspected a hoax, so I never had the time to expend the large amount of | labor required. | | My thought is, if it can lift its own weight, then MAYBE a single | foil-paper-foil layer can also lift its own weight. If so, then it would | be VERY easy to verify this claim without having to build the entire | darned capacitor. Just add enough layers so that you were certain that it | wasn't just electrostatic repulsion or something. Make it hover around | the room, lifting a small counterweight as a balloon would. Or spin a | small wheel for hours if mounted tangentially on the rim? | | Note that it's HIGH VOLTAGE and a CAPACITOR. Easy to kill yourself unless | you can keep the value down below 100pF or so. | | | ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) | William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website | billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com | EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science | Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L | | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 09:50:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08738; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:50:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:50:31 -0800 Message-ID: <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:50:46 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7T80r1.0.R82.aVGsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14269 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > OK, I read the second edition and marked a few places to go back to later. I also had > a quick peek at the letters file but they too start after the device was made. Also, the forth edition contains the catalysts that he used and these have been deleted out of all other editions! You will also notice that the chapter on "Chemical Reactions by Means of Electronic Exitation" now reads "Reactions by Means of Electronic Excitation" in the 5th ed. I wonder why the word "chemical" has been dropped? ;-) There are many more clues like these. Let me know as you find them. > > Nothing also, about whether the theory or the device came first. > As the first reference to the Universal frequency come in the > sentence 'In the vibrations of the forces of the Universe we find > the key to the sources of all energy.', I am inclined to believe > that the device came before the theory. Any thoughts on that. The swedish stone was the seed. > > As to what his resonant frequency was, there are a few > possible hints His (our?) cosmic particles have frequencies > far higher than what an electric circult can make and resonate > to but he also talks about the surges which may last only a few > microseconds. If by a few microseconds he meant 2uS, that would > put the upper limit at 500 kHz but with significant variation > below it. It is in my humble experience that it the the ultraviolet wavelength at 190 nanoseconds that transforms oxygen into ozone. My patent utilizes this effect to generate super cells. No one can say for certain but all of the pieces of the puzzle clearly indicate this. Moray himself may over-looked this mechanism. > > He also says that 'In the detector and intercepter circults it > becomes more important to maintain oscillatory action than frequency > stability.' Sound like he is using the upto 500kHz pulses as a 'battery' > but is the universal frequency anywhere in this range? That can't be > determined but as long as the energy in these pulses is larger than what > is required to maintain the resonance in the circult, maybe it doesn't matter. I think that he is referencing the high-voltage circuit here. > > Also, what is a "glorified monochromator"? I have often wondered this myself. At the rsik of appearing stupid, what is a "monochromator" anyway? -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 11:05:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA31127; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:04:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:04:40 -0800 Message-ID: <20000322190404.38522.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [198.73.106.2] From: "Fred Walter" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:04:04 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"BSeC52.0.Fc7.7bHsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14270 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: Bruce A. Perreault >>Permission was sought from a Mr. Fred Walters to 'mirror' >>the files on his web site. Upon receiving permission, >>HHC contracted us to copy those files >>from Mr. Walters site to the HHC web site. >The problem is that Mr. Fred Walters does not own the work, >nor does his associate Jerry Decker. The patents are in the public domain. No one owns them. However, the .pdf files that were on my web-site, that various people have mirrored, and included on their CDROMs, were created from .tif images that I scanned in from paper copies of patents that various people mailed me. >Technically it is the scans that are copyrighted. Then the .pdf files that were on my web-site, that other people have mirrored on their web-sites, and that several other people have included on their CDROMs, are copyrighted by me. >If a person like Jerry Decker or Mr. Fred Walters wishes >to buy copies from the patent office and then spend >countless hours scanning them on the computer then they may post >these to their websites or even sell them in a "compiled work" >with other materials added. I didn't need to buy any patents; once people knew that I was really scanning them in and making them available for free, various people sent me patents. I spent countless hours scanning them in. I spent countless hours cleaning up .tif images. I spent countless hours creating .pdf files. Someone else has converted part of the collection to HTML, (by typing it in by hand) and made it available on their web-site: http://www.saunalahti.fi/~nop/Tesla Bruce, stop harrassing people over the .pdf files that I created. >From now on, when I create .pdf files, I'm putting my name in them, and enabling security. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 11:57:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15188; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:56:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:56:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38de638a.288529353@mail.midiowa.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20000317130928.00a57600@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <3.0.6.32.20000320115415.00a66100@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <38d6f382.194312967@mail.midiowa.net> <38D786DA.4406E746@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> <38de638a.288529353@mail.midiowa.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:57:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"d9uq-3.0.Dj3.JLIsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14271 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dean, At least have the courtesy to start another thread instead of dumping into something unrelated. >Hi Jack, > >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:27:38 +0000, "Taylor J. Smith" > wrote: > >>Are there any negative critiques of the Hyperdimensional Model >>which you can refer me to so that I can regain some mental >>balance? > >I haven't looked into that model, and I suspect there are plenty of >criticisms, valid or not. :) I wish I had the time to investigate >everything of interest to me. > >-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) -- Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 12:08:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29387; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:05:15 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:05:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38D9277A.61F0@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:05:14 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents References: <20000322190404.38522.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y-4ul3.0._A7.sTIsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14272 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, The Canadian and British patents that you have posted to your sites have my time stamps on them! You can not print them out and the rescan them. Anyone can look and see that there are eleven patents missing from Jerry Decker's list and same exact list. These are the same that were lost at my printers back in October of 1998. I had to reorder these from the British Patent office. Whoever sent you these files are missing the same exact patents. How do you explain this away? Today I have sent out all documentation to InterNet Ink Canada proving beyond doubt that the files posted are a result of my research into these patents. My first patent ordered that got the ball rolling was ordered on 11/8/97. I have sent email correspondance between the patent office and myself. The patent office states that it is willing to waive the search fee if they are have my permission to use the newly generated list. Before my search the list did not exist. Even the Belgrade Museum did not have these patent numbers. Shortly after my cd-rom was published you and Jerry Decker took it upon yourselves to post the patents giving yourselves credit for the good deed. Somehow in Jerry's mind it appears to him that he was preventing a "scam." Why? Because I unearth Tesla's long lost Patents and ask a small fee in return? What you two have done is is unethical in my mind. It is not so much the loss of money that would have gone to my research. It is the credit that you have robbed me of. Then Jerry turns around saying that I an trying to pull off some kind of a scam. For what? Finding away to honestly raise research funds? http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/m8183.html I have submitted my proof. Now show me your proof! Shame on you two... admit your mistake and all will be forgiven. Regretfully, Bruce A. Perreault Fred Walter wrote: > > >From: Bruce A. Perreault > >>Permission was sought from a Mr. Fred Walters to 'mirror' > >>the files on his web site. Upon receiving permission, > >>HHC contracted us to copy those files > >>from Mr. Walters site to the HHC web site. > > >The problem is that Mr. Fred Walters does not own the work, > >nor does his associate Jerry Decker. > > The patents are in the public domain. No one owns them. > > However, the .pdf files that were on my web-site, > that various people have mirrored, and included on their CDROMs, > were created from .tif images that I scanned in > from paper copies of patents that various people mailed me. > > >Technically it is the scans that are copyrighted. > > Then the .pdf files that were on my web-site, > that other people have mirrored on their web-sites, > and that several other people have included on their CDROMs, > are copyrighted by me. > > >If a person like Jerry Decker or Mr. Fred Walters wishes > >to buy copies from the patent office and then spend > >countless hours scanning them on the computer then they may post > >these to their websites or even sell them in a "compiled work" > >with other materials added. > > I didn't need to buy any patents; once people knew that > I was really scanning them in and making them available for free, > various people sent me patents. > > I spent countless hours scanning them in. > I spent countless hours cleaning up .tif images. > I spent countless hours creating .pdf files. > > Someone else has converted part of the collection to HTML, > (by typing it in by hand) and made it available on their web-site: > http://www.saunalahti.fi/~nop/Tesla > > Bruce, stop harrassing people over the .pdf files that I created. > > >From now on, when I create .pdf files, I'm putting my name in them, > and enabling security. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 13:28:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12901; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:27:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:27:25 -0800 Message-ID: <20000322212647.52669.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [198.73.106.2] From: "Fred Walter" To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:26:47 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Be1C3.0.U93.zgJsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14273 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: "Bruce A. Perreault" >The Canadian and British patents that you have posted to >your sites have my time stamps on them! I found that rather odd. It implies that you took copies of the .pdf files that I created, and used them on your CDROM. I don't have a problem with you taking the .pdf files that I created, and using them. The wider the distribution the better. That's why I spent all that time scanning in the patents; I want people to read them, and perhaps invent something that I'll find useful. I do have a problem with you telling people that they can't redistribute the .pdf files that I created. >Anyone can look and see that there are eleven patents missing >from Jerry Decker's list Which patents are missing? If anyone out there has paper copies of these patents (or any other interesting alternative science-related patents) that they are willing to mail me, I'll be happy to scan them in and create .pdf files that can be made available to the world. Contact me at fred_walter@hotmail.com with the details. >Today I have sent out all documentation to InterNet Ink Canada >proving beyond doubt that the files posted are a result of my >research into these patents. It might have been your research that dug up the original paper copies of the patents. I didn't ask where the paper copies (that were mailed me) came from. That you spent money getting copies of those patents does not change the fact that those patents are in the public domain. The .pdf files that you are hassling people about were created by me. Keep harrassing people about them, and I'll make the .tif's available for people to use in creating HTML versions of these patents. >Then Jerry turns around saying that I an trying to pull off >some kind of a scam. You can claim copyright on the .pdf's that you've created. However, you are trying to claim copyright on the .pdf's that I've created... which is rather irritating. To me, and to all the people that you are harrassing. >For what? Finding away to honestly raise research funds? I find the best way to raise research funds is to work for a living. fred ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 13:34:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16316; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:34:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:34:14 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:33:38 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA16280 Resent-Message-ID: <"oZNks3.0.l-3.LnJsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14274 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:50:46 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] >> Also, what is a "glorified monochromator"? > > >I have often wondered this myself. At the rsik of appearing stupid, >what is a "monochromator" anyway? Taken literally, it seems to be something that "makes one colour", i.e. a filter perhaps for a single frequency. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 13:42:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20436; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:41:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:41:54 -0800 Message-ID: <38D93D9F.E6A0666C@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:39:43 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg , vortex Subject: New Class off Materials with negative Eps and Mu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Zsr91.0.9_4.XuJsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14275 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: (Repost) http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mccomposite.htm They say the material is composed of copper rings. Not so unusual. - hamdi ucar UCSD PHYSICISTS DEVELOP NEW CLASS OF COMPOSITE MATERIALS WITH 'REVERSED' PHYSICAL PROPERTIES NEVER BEFORE SEEN Minneapolis, MN-Physicists at the University of California, San Diego have produced a new class of composite materials with unusual physical properties that scientists theorized might be possible, but have never before been able to produce in nature. The remarkable achievement, detailed in a paper that will appear in a forthcoming issue of Physical Review Letters, was announced here today at a meeting of the American Physical Society. The UCSD physicists said they expect their discovery to open up a n ew subdiscipline within physics and produce an array of commercial applications for this material, on which the university has applied for a patent. "Composite materials like this are built on a totally new concept," said the two co-leaders of the UCSD team, Sheldon Schultz and David R. Smith, who announced their discovery at a news conference. "While they obey the laws of physics, they are predicted to behave totally different from normal materials and should find interesting applications." The unusual property of this new class of materials is essentially its ability to reverse many of the physical properties that govern the behavior of ordinary materials. One such property is the Doppler effect, which makes a train whistle sound higher in pitch as it approaches and lower in pitch as it recedes. According to Maxwell's equations, which describe the relationship between magnetic and electric fields, microwave radiation or light would show the opposite effect in this new class of materials, sh ifting to lower frequencies as a source approaches and to higher frequencies as it recedes. Similarly, Maxwell's equations further suggest that lenses that would normally disperse electromagnetic radiation would instead focus it within this composite material. This is because Snell's law, which describes the angle of refraction caused by the cha nge in velocity of light and other waves through lenses, water and other types of ordinary material, is expected to be exactly opposite within this composite. "If these effects turn out to be possible at optical frequencies, this material would have the crazy property that a flashlight shining on a slab can focus the light at a point on the other side," said Schultz. "There's no way you can do that with just a sheet of ordinary material." He notes that the development of this new class of materials, which was financed by the National Science Foundation and the Department of Energy, is entirely consistent with the laws of physics and was predicted as a possibility in 1968 by a Russian theor ist, V.G. Veselago. "But until now," Schultz adds, "no one had the material, so it couldn't be verified." Underlying the reversal of the Doppler effect, Snell's law, and Cerenkov radiation (radiation by charged particles moving through a medium) is that this new material exhibits a reversal of one of the "right-hand rules" of physics which describe a relation ship between the electric and magnetic fields and the direction of their wave velocity. The new materials are known by the UCSD team colloquially as "left-handed materials," after a term coined by Veselago, because they reverse this relationship. What that means is physically counterintuitive-pulses of electromagnetic radiation moving throug h the material in one direction are composed of constituent waves moving in the opposite direction. The UCSD physicists emphasized that while they believe their new class of composites will be shown to reverse Snell's law, the specific composite they produced will not do so at visible-light frequencies. Instead, it is now limited to transmitting microwa ve radiation at frequencies of 4 to 7 Gigahertz-a range somewhere between the operation of household microwave ovens (3.3 Gigahertz) and military radars (10 Gigahertz). However, Schultz said the UCSD team will soon be attempting to verify that a composite constructed on similar principles will be able to focus and disperse microwaves in exactly the opposite manner as normal lenses. "We did not do this experiment yet," he said. "But this is what the equations predict. Physicists will understand that if our data presented in our paper are correct, given Maxwell's equations, then this will be the result." The composite constructed by the UCSD team-which also consisted of Willie J. Padilla, David C. Vier, and Syrus C. Nemat-Nasser-was produced from a series of thin copper rings and ordinary copper wire strung parallel to the rings. It is an example of a new class of materials scientists call "metamaterials." "Even though it is composed of only copper wires and copper rings, the arrangement has an effective magnetic response to microwaves that has never been demonstrated before," said Schultz. The idea for the new composite came from Smith, building on the work of John Pendry of Imperial College, London. In 1996, Pendry described a way of using ordinary copper wires to create a material with the property physicists call "negative electric permi ttivity." Electric permittivity-often referred to as the "dielectric constant"-is the response of a material to electromagnetic radiation. "When you take a material like plastic, glass or sapphire and you shine microwaves onto it, you can characterize how the microwaves going through it will behave by a parameter called electric permittivity," explained Schultz. Most known materials in natur e have a positive electric permittivity. Pendry also recently suggested a way of using copper rings to make a material with negative magnetic permeability at microwave frequencies. Just about all of the magnetic materials in nature, those that respond to magnetic rather than electric fields, hav e what physicists call a "positive magnetic permeability." What's unusual about the new class of materials produced by the UCSD team is that it simultaneously has a negative electric permittivity and a negative magnetic permeability, a combination of properties never before seen in a natural or man-made material. "And the interesting thing is that it's produced with no magnetic material," said Schultz. "It's all done with copper." "The bottom line," said Smith, "is that this material-this metamaterial, at frequencies where both the permittivity and permeability are negative, behaves according to a left-handed rule, rather than a right-handed rule." # # # David Smith can be reached March 20-22 in Minneapolis at 612-331-1900. Sheldon Schultz can be reached March 20-23 in Minneapolis at 612-333-4545 Messages for the UCSD scientists can also be left at the APS meeting pressroom at 612-335-6735, 6736, 6737, 6738. Pressroom Hours: Mon.-Wed. 8AM to 5PM, Thurs. 8AM to noon. The news conference will take place at 1 p.m. March 21 at the Minneapolis Conventi on Center, Room 203B. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 14:03:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27748; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:02:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:02:41 -0800 Message-ID: <38D9431E.3887@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:03:10 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents References: <20000322212647.52669.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-5dBo1.0.Sn6.1CKsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14276 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Walter wrote: > > >From: "Bruce A. Perreault" > >The Canadian and British patents that you have posted to > >your sites have my time stamps on them! > > I found that rather odd. It implies that you took copies > of the .pdf files that I created, and used them on your CDROM. I can not believe you are saying this! Today I sent the documentaion that proves the discovery of the Canada and Great Britain Tesla Patents are a direct result of my research. This is documented at the British Patent office. Copies have been forwarded to InterNet Ink Canada. In fact... those eleven copies had to be reordered back in 1998! I have also sent out a copy of the invoice. You are caught in a lie. > > I don't have a problem with you taking the .pdf files that I created, > and using them. The wider the distribution the better. > That's why I spent all that time scanning in the patents; > I want people to read them, and perhaps invent something > that I'll find useful. You did not create them and you know it! I send the proof out via Global Priority mail today. The truth will surface in a few short days. > > I do have a problem with you telling people that > they can't redistribute the .pdf files that I created. The truth will surface soon. > > >Anyone can look and see that there are eleven patents missing > >from Jerry Decker's list > > Which patents are missing? You are caught! The documention that I have sent will prove that I am the injured party here. http://www.nuenergy.org/tesla_lists.htm Now apologize and all will be forgiven. > > If anyone out there has paper copies of these patents > (or any other interesting alternative science-related patents) > that they are willing to mail me, I'll be happy to scan them in > and create .pdf files that can be made available to the world. These patents did not become "public domain" until I did the research. What gives you the right to give away something that you did not work for and take the credit to boot? > > Contact me at fred_walter@hotmail.com with the details. > > >Today I have sent out all documentation to InterNet Ink Canada > >proving beyond doubt that the files posted are a result of my > >research into these patents. > > It might have been your research that dug up the original paper > copies of the patents. Ahh... first step... you are admitting that these lost patents are a work of my labor. ;-) > > I didn't ask where the paper copies (that were mailed me) came from. You are admit copyright violation here. > > That you spent money getting copies of those patents > does not change the fact that those patents are in the public domain. Yes, I put them into public domain. I ask is that credit is given for my effort. Point people to were they may obtain the cd-rom if they desire. It is my contribution to give not your contribution or Jerry Decker's. > > The .pdf files that you are hassling people about were created by me. > Keep harrassing people about them, and I'll make the .tif's available > for people to use in creating HTML versions of these patents. I am not hassling anyone. I am just taking my stand for what is right. This is not a wise threat. You can not make copies in another graphic format and call the work your own. However, you may order the patents from the patent office with the list that I have provided and scan each and everyone of them... only then can you post them to people. > > >Then Jerry turns around saying that I an trying to pull off > >some kind of a scam. > > You can claim copyright on the .pdf's that you've created. > > However, you are trying to claim copyright on the .pdf's > that I've created... which is rather irritating. > To me, and to all the people that you are harrassing. I have sent out my proof today... the jig is up guy. > > >For what? Finding away to honestly raise research funds? > > I find the best way to raise research funds is to work for a living. > > fred You say this when on the other hand you have taken something that I labored hard and trample my work under you're feet. Shame on you. Disheartened, Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 14:12:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19900; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:11:20 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:11:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38D94517.6A11@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:11:35 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin van Spaandonk CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hHb7P3.0.ls4.4KKsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14277 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:50:46 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > [snip] > >> Also, what is a "glorified monochromator"? > > > > > >I have often wondered this myself. At the rsik of appearing stupid, > >what is a "monochromator" anyway? > > Taken literally, it seems to be something that "makes one colour", i.e. a > filter perhaps for a single frequency. > [snip] > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk Yes!!! Exactly!!! I have been saying this all along. Robin, I bow and kiss your feet for pointing this out. I really mean this. Thank you a thousand times! This is another piece of the puzzle that fits... you have just lifted my spirit today. :-) -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 14:59:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA15656; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:59:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:59:25 -0800 Message-ID: <20000322225847.98805.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [198.73.106.2] From: "Fred Walter" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: fred_walter@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:58:46 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"RgdnD2.0.Rq3.B1Lsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14278 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: "Bruce A. Perreault" >Today I sent the documentaion that proves the discovery of >the Canada and Great Britain Tesla Patents are a direct result >of my research. It's nice that that you spent time and money digging up these old patents. However, the information in the patents are in the public domain. Nothing that you say/do can change that fact. >You are caught in a lie. I never said that I did the original research. However I did spend the time scanning in and creating the .pdf files, of public domain material, that you are complaining about. Your claim my .pdf files have the same timestamp as yours is a darn odd coincidence... if you are telling the truth. > > I don't have a problem with you taking the .pdf files that > > I created, and using them. > >You did not create them and you know it! I created the .pdf files that you are complaining about. I created them from patents that are in the public domain. > > >Anyone can look and see that there are eleven patents missing > > >from Jerry Decker's list > > Which patents are missing? >You are caught! You're not making sense here. >From your website it looks like I'm missing British patents 20981, 24001, 24421, 26371, 174544, 179043, 185446, 186082, 186083, 186084, 186799 I guess that I'll have to get around to getting paper copies of those patents someday, and scanning them in, so that I have the complete set. >These patents did not become "public domain" until I did the >research. Those patents were public domain long before you did the research. >What gives you the right to give away something that >you did not work for and take the credit to boot? I'm not taking credit for finding the patents. Like I said, someone mailed me paper copies. After my having said this several times, I'm beginning to wonder if you have a reading-comprehension problem. > > It might have been your research that dug up the original paper > > copies of the patents. >Ahh... first step... you are admitting that these lost patents >are a work of my labor. ;-) The information in those patents is in the public domain. If you were the person who found them, then that was nice of you to do that research. > > I didn't ask where the paper copies > > (that were mailed me) came from. > >You are admit copyright violation here. You can't copyright public domain information, thus no copyright violation. > > That you spent money getting copies of those patents > > does not change the fact that those patents are in the > > public domain. > >Yes, I put them into public domain. They are not yours to put into the public domain. There were in the public domain long before you were even born. >I ask is that credit is given for my effort. What you were asking/demanding was that other people take down .pdf's that I created from material in the public domain. Whether or not you were the first person who found that material is irrelevant, as the material is in the public domain. > > The .pdf files that you are hassling people about were > > created by me. Keep harrassing people about them, > > and I'll make the .tif's available for people to use > > in creating HTML versions of these patents. >This is not a wise threat. You can not make copies in another >graphic format and call the work your own. The information in the patents is in the public domain. I scanned in those .tif files, I can do whatever I want with them. Because of your harrassment, I've made the time to create another web-site. Realistically, not many will download .pdf's, when they can buy a cheap CDROM... BUT if I see one more email on this subject from you, then I'll make the time to make .tif's available, and put in the effort to get the rest of the patents converted to HTML. It's your call Bruce. Stop emailing about me in public mailing-lists, or have a bunch of people happy to be reading public domain info on the web, rather than buying it from you. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 15:48:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA32700; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:47:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:47:35 -0800 Message-ID: <38D95BB7.F3182257@info2000.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:48:07 -0700 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents References: <20000322225847.98805.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eNgNk.0.q-7.LkLsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14279 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, Fred, Fred, It's not the information in the patents that is in question. It is Mr. Pereault's compilation that is copywrited. IMO, you should just give him your apology and be done with it. It's obvious where you got your info from. Have a great day, Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 16:01:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04767; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:00:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:00:22 -0800 Message-ID: <38D92B1D.BC5FA187@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:20:45 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg , vortex Subject: New Class off Materials with negative Eps and Mu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"J89gO2.0.BA1.KwLsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14280 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mccomposite.htm UCSD PHYSICISTS DEVELOP NEW CLASS OF COMPOSITE MATERIALS WITH 'REVERSED' PHYSICAL PROPERTIES NEVER BEFORE SEEN Minneapolis, MN-Physicists at the University of California, San Diego have produced a new class of composite materials with unusual physical properties that scientists theorized might be possible, but have never before been able to produce in nature. The remarkable achievement, detailed in a paper that will appear in a forthcoming issue of Physical Review Letters, was announced here today at a meeting of the American Physical Society. The UCSD physicists said they expect their discovery to open up a n ew subdiscipline within physics and produce an array of commercial applications for this material, on which the university has applied for a patent. "Composite materials like this are built on a totally new concept," said the two co-leaders of the UCSD team, Sheldon Schultz and David R. Smith, who announced their discovery at a news conference. "While they obey the laws of physics, they are predicted to behave totally different from normal materials and should find interesting applications." The unusual property of this new class of materials is essentially its ability to reverse many of the physical properties that govern the behavior of ordinary materials. One such property is the Doppler effect, which makes a train whistle sound higher in pitch as it approaches and lower in pitch as it recedes. According to Maxwell's equations, which describe the relationship between magnetic and electric fields, microwave radiation or light would show the opposite effect in this new class of materials, sh ifting to lower frequencies as a source approaches and to higher frequencies as it recedes. Similarly, Maxwell's equations further suggest that lenses that would normally disperse electromagnetic radiation would instead focus it within this composite material. This is because Snell's law, which describes the angle of refraction caused by the cha nge in velocity of light and other waves through lenses, water and other types of ordinary material, is expected to be exactly opposite within this composite. "If these effects turn out to be possible at optical frequencies, this material would have the crazy property that a flashlight shining on a slab can focus the light at a point on the other side," said Schultz. "There's no way you can do that with just a sheet of ordinary material." He notes that the development of this new class of materials, which was financed by the National Science Foundation and the Department of Energy, is entirely consistent with the laws of physics and was predicted as a possibility in 1968 by a Russian theor ist, V.G. Veselago. "But until now," Schultz adds, "no one had the material, so it couldn't be verified." Underlying the reversal of the Doppler effect, Snell's law, and Cerenkov radiation (radiation by charged particles moving through a medium) is that this new material exhibits a reversal of one of the "right-hand rules" of physics which describe a relation ship between the electric and magnetic fields and the direction of their wave velocity. The new materials are known by the UCSD team colloquially as "left-handed materials," after a term coined by Veselago, because they reverse this relationship. What that means is physically counterintuitive-pulses of electromagnetic radiation moving throug h the material in one direction are composed of constituent waves moving in the opposite direction. The UCSD physicists emphasized that while they believe their new class of composites will be shown to reverse Snell's law, the specific composite they produced will not do so at visible-light frequencies. Instead, it is now limited to transmitting microwa ve radiation at frequencies of 4 to 7 Gigahertz-a range somewhere between the operation of household microwave ovens (3.3 Gigahertz) and military radars (10 Gigahertz). However, Schultz said the UCSD team will soon be attempting to verify that a composite constructed on similar principles will be able to focus and disperse microwaves in exactly the opposite manner as normal lenses. "We did not do this experiment yet," he said. "But this is what the equations predict. Physicists will understand that if our data presented in our paper are correct, given Maxwell's equations, then this will be the result." The composite constructed by the UCSD team-which also consisted of Willie J. Padilla, David C. Vier, and Syrus C. Nemat-Nasser-was produced from a series of thin copper rings and ordinary copper wire strung parallel to the rings. It is an example of a new class of materials scientists call "metamaterials." "Even though it is composed of only copper wires and copper rings, the arrangement has an effective magnetic response to microwaves that has never been demonstrated before," said Schultz. The idea for the new composite came from Smith, building on the work of John Pendry of Imperial College, London. In 1996, Pendry described a way of using ordinary copper wires to create a material with the property physicists call "negative electric permi ttivity." Electric permittivity-often referred to as the "dielectric constant"-is the response of a material to electromagnetic radiation. "When you take a material like plastic, glass or sapphire and you shine microwaves onto it, you can characterize how the microwaves going through it will behave by a parameter called electric permittivity," explained Schultz. Most known materials in natur e have a positive electric permittivity. Pendry also recently suggested a way of using copper rings to make a material with negative magnetic permeability at microwave frequencies. Just about all of the magnetic materials in nature, those that respond to magnetic rather than electric fields, hav e what physicists call a "positive magnetic permeability." What's unusual about the new class of materials produced by the UCSD team is that it simultaneously has a negative electric permittivity and a negative magnetic permeability, a combination of properties never before seen in a natural or man-made material. "And the interesting thing is that it's produced with no magnetic material," said Schultz. "It's all done with copper." "The bottom line," said Smith, "is that this material-this metamaterial, at frequencies where both the permittivity and permeability are negative, behaves according to a left-handed rule, rather than a right-handed rule." # # # David Smith can be reached March 20-22 in Minneapolis at 612-331-1900. Sheldon Schultz can be reached March 20-23 in Minneapolis at 612-333-4545 Messages for the UCSD scientists can also be left at the APS meeting pressroom at 612-335-6735, 6736, 6737, 6738. Pressroom Hours: Mon.-Wed. 8AM to 5PM, Thurs. 8AM to noon. The news conference will take place at 1 p.m. March 21 at the Minneapolis Conventi on Center, Room 203B. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 16:50:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA12383; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:49:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:49:16 -0800 (PST) From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Class off Materials with negative Eps and Mu Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:49:52 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38db6963.355562321@mail.midiowa.net> References: <38D93D9F.E6A0666C@verisoft.com.tr> In-Reply-To: <38D93D9F.E6A0666C@verisoft.com.tr> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id QAA12345 Resent-Message-ID: <"WJES23.0.M13.AeMsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14281 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Hamdi, On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:39:43 +0200, hamdi ucar wrote: >The unusual property of this new class of materials is essentially its ability to reverse many of the physical properties that govern the behavior of ordinary materials. One such property is the Doppler effect, which makes a train whistle sound higher in pitch as it approaches and lower in pitch as it recedes. According to Maxwell's equations, which describe the relationship between magnetic and electric fields, microwave radiation or light would show the opposite effect in this new class of materials, s hifting to lower frequencies as a source approaches and to higher frequencies as it recedes. I haven't looked up any references, as yet -- but I smell an April Fool's joke. Doppler effect has nothing to do with the material producing the radiation -- and has everything to do with the relative velocity between the emitter and the receiver. What this paragraph is saying is that the emitter is aware of all receivers (their position and relative motion) as it's emitting it's radiation; and can predict the changes in position and motion in the receiver(s) as it's emitting. Sound right to you? :) -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 17:22:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19776; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:21:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:21:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:19:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200003230119.UAA19074@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Resent-Message-ID: <"TqFij2.0.kq4.V6Nsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14282 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Looking over this description I am reminded somewhat of the Testatika machine. If there is any- thing to this supposed gravity device, then some extrapolation of it may imply a method to replicate the Testatika machine as well. Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 17:35:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29543; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:35:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:35:00 -0800 Message-ID: <38D974A0.3A9B27A5@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:34:24 +0200 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg Subject: Re: New Class off Materials with negative Eps and Mu References: <38D93D9F.E6A0666C@verisoft.com.tr> <38db6963.355562321@mail.midiowa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ot5Q13.0.WD7.3JNsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14283 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dean, This is absolutely not a joke, although sound like a joke, really incredible! I found referenced John Bendry's papers on LANL archive. Some of the appears directly related to the topic. Showing results 1 through 11 (of 11 total) for au=Pendry_J 1. cond-mat/9904365 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Transmission resonances on metallic gratings with very narrow slits Authors: J.A. Porto (1), F.J. Garcia-Vidal (2), J.B. Pendry (1) ((1) Imperial College London, (2) Universidad Autonoma de Madrid) Comments: 4 pages (RevTex) + 4 postscript figures Subj-class: Materials Science 2. cond-mat/9809222 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Interface modes of two-dimensional composite structures Authors: J. M. Pitarke, F. J. Garcia-Vidal, J. B. Pendry Comments: 12 pages, 4 figures, to appear in Surf. Sci Subj-class: Materials Science 3. cond-mat/9807022 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Order N photonic band structures for metals and other dispersive materials Authors: J. Arriaga, A.J. Ward, J.B. Pendry Comments: Four pages, plus seven postscript figures. Submitted to Physical Review Letters Subj-class: Materials Science 4. cond-mat/9805375 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Silver Filled Carbon Nanotubes used as Spectroscopic Enhancers Authors: F.J. Garcia-Vidal (Universidad Autonoma de Madrid), J.M. Pitarke (Euskal Herriko Unibersitatea), J.B. Pendry (Imperial College of London) Comments: 4 pages (LaTex), 4 postscript figures, to be published in Physical Review B Subj-class: Materials Science 5. cond-mat/9804195 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Effective electronic response of a system of metallic cylinders Authors: J. M. Pitarke, F. J. Garcia-Vidal, J. B. Pendry Comments: 15 pages, 6 figures, to appear in Phys. Rev. B Subj-class: Materials Science 6. cond-mat/9804007 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Calculating photonic Green's functions using a non-orthogonal finite difference time domain method Authors: A. J. Ward, J. B. Pendry Comments: RevTex file. 10 pages with 8 postscript figures. Submitted to Phys Rev B 7. cond-mat/9802259 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Electromagnetic forces in photonic crystals Authors: M.I. Antonoyiannakis, J.B. Pendry (Imperial College, London, United Kingdom) Comments: 11 pages RevTex, 14 figures 8. cond-mat/9707190 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Shearing the Vacuum - Quantum Friction Author: JB Pendry (Blackett Laboratory, Imperial College, London) Comments: 21 pages, Latex, 8 figures, submitted to J. Phys. C: Solid State Physics 9. cond-mat/9707025 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: The Theory of SNOM: A Novel Approach Authors: A. J. Ward, J. B. Pendry Comments: 19 pages, 11 figures. To be published in the Journal of Modern Optics 10. cond-mat/9705288 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Mie resonances and bonding in photonic crystals Authors: M. I. Antonoyiannakis, J. B. Pendry (Imperial College, London, United Kingdom) Comments: Minor changes in text, of explanatory nature. 6 pages, Latex, 6 figures, accepted by Europhysics Letters Subj-class: Soft Condensed Matter 11. cond-mat/9705110 [abs, src, ps, other] : Title: Effective medium theory of the optical properties of aligned carbon nanotubes Authors: F.J. Garcia-Vidal, J.M. Pitarke, J.B. Pendry (Imperial College, London) Comments: 4 pages(LaTeX),3 figs (ps files),to appear in Phys. Rev. Lett Subj-class: Materials Science "Dean T. Miller" wrote: > > Hi Hamdi, > > On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:39:43 +0200, hamdi ucar > wrote: > > >The unusual property of this new class of materials is essentially its ability to reverse many of the physical properties that govern the behavior of ordinary materials. [snip] > > I haven't looked up any references, as yet -- but I smell an April > Fool's joke. Doppler effect has nothing to do with the material > producing the radiation -- and has everything to do with the relative > velocity between the emitter and the receiver. What this paragraph is > saying is that the emitter is aware of all receivers (their position > and relative motion) as it's emitting it's radiation; and can predict > the changes in position and motion in the receiver(s) as it's > emitting. > > Sound right to you? :) > > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) The newspaper style news is very confusing, indeed. Very difficult to understand what really it is. But the discovery should be very important, at least for electromagnetic theories developments. Regards, hamdi From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 18:14:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00184; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:13:13 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:13:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38D97A16.433A@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:57:42 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents References: <20000322225847.98805.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Br-Jn3.0.R2.fsNsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14284 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Walter wrote: > > >From: "Bruce A. Perreault" > >Today I sent the documentaion that proves the discovery of > >the Canada and Great Britain Tesla Patents are a direct result > >of my research. > > It's nice that that you spent time and money digging up > these old patents. > > However, the information in the patents are in the public domain. > > Nothing that you say/do can change that fact. Yes... but it was me who brought them into public domain. All I ask is to get credit for this. Why is this asking so much? > > >You are caught in a lie. > > I never said that I did the original research. > However I did spend the time scanning in and creating the .pdf files, > of public domain material, that you are complaining about. > > Your claim my .pdf files have the same timestamp as yours > is a darn odd coincidence... if you are telling the truth. Yes... and right done to the last second... on all of the Canadian and British Patents... I would say that this is impossible. Strange... that they are the same file sizes, and that the eleven patents are missing from your list... the same ones that I had to reorder and are invoiced. The documents that I sent out today will clearly prove what I am saying is true and correct. > > > > I don't have a problem with you taking the .pdf files that > > > I created, and using them. > > > >You did not create them and you know it! > > I created the .pdf files that you are complaining about. > I created them from patents that are in the public domain. Then show me your invoices from Canada and Great Britain. Those .pdf files on your site were created on my cd-burner. > > > > >Anyone can look and see that there are eleven patents missing > > > >from Jerry Decker's list > > > Which patents are missing? > >You are caught! > > You're not making sense here. > > >From your website it looks like I'm missing British patents > 20981, 24001, 24421, 26371, 174544, 179043, 185446, 186082, > 186083, 186084, 186799 Yes... precisely! I have an invoice showing that these had to be reordered by me back in 1998... one year before you posted the pdf files. So... where are the eleven patents that are missing from your list? You did not receive them because they were not sent out in the first few orders that I had sent out! Does this make sense now? > > I guess that I'll have to get around to getting paper copies > of those patents someday, and scanning them in, > so that I have the complete set. What a nice guy. Why don't you just apologize? I am a very forgiven person. But... please do not insult my intelligence... I will stand for what is right for myself or anyone else for that matter. > > >These patents did not become "public domain" until I did the > >research. > > Those patents were public domain long before you did the research. How were they public if no person had the numbers to buy the copies? Legally yes... ethically no. I do not think that Decker posted those patents out of goodness. He posted them to stop me from making a small fee on them. I do not understand what I did to him to have him hate me this much. What have I ever done to you? > > >What gives you the right to give away something that > >you did not work for and take the credit to boot? > > I'm not taking credit for finding the patents. > > Like I said, someone mailed me paper copies. Who mailed you the paper copies. Would it happen to be John Moreland by any remote chance? > > After my having said this several times, > I'm beginning to wonder if you have a reading-comprehension problem. > > > > It might have been your research that dug up the original paper > > > copies of the patents. > >Ahh... first step... you are admitting that these lost patents > >are a work of my labor. ;-) > > The information in those patents is in the public domain. > > If you were the person who found them, > then that was nice of you to do that research. Then why should I get the pat on the back for my work? Why are certain people claiming the credit? > > > > I didn't ask where the paper copies > > > (that were mailed me) came from. > > > >You admit copyright violation here. > > You can't copyright public domain information, > thus no copyright violation. Correct... however, what is copyrighted is the files and compiled work. Relax guy... I am not asking you for monetary compensation. All I am requesting is due credt and an apology. > > > > That you spent money getting copies of those patents > > > does not change the fact that those patents are in the > > > public domain. > > > >Yes, I put them into public domain. > > They are not yours to put into the public domain. > There were in the public domain long before you were even born. > > >I ask is that credit is given for my effort. > > What you were asking/demanding was that other people > take down .pdf's that I created from material in the public domain. My documentation proves that you lifted the files from my compiled work, or someone who you obtained the files from did. > > Whether or not you were the first person who found that > material is irrelevant, as the material is in the public domain. Again... the files are copyrighted... they are part of a compiled work. Moreover... it is a matter of ethics and personal integrity. > > > > The .pdf files that you are hassling people about were > > > created by me. Keep harrassing people about them, > > > and I'll make the .tif's available for people to use > > > in creating HTML versions of these patents. > >This is not a wise threat. You can not make copies in another > >graphic format and call the work your own. > > The information in the patents is in the public domain. > I scanned in those .tif files, I can do whatever I want with them. > > Because of your harrassment, I've made the time to create > another web-site. Realistically, not many will download .pdf's, > when they can buy a cheap CDROM... > > BUT if I see one more email on this subject from you, > then I'll make the time to make .tif's available, and put in > the effort to get the rest of the patents converted to HTML. > > It's your call Bruce. Do what you think that you have to do. Go for it. > > Stop emailing about me in public mailing-lists, > or have a bunch of people happy to be reading public domain info > on the web, rather than buying it from you. It was you who sent me email to the list. As far as I'm concerned this discussion is over. You can not give me credit... making matters worse you are threatening to do more damage. You will probably buy the patents and post not because you want to contribute them to the world but because you want to show me who is in control. Que Sara Sara, Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 18:29:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA16106; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:29:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:29:16 -0800 Message-ID: <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:29:46 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PzwRu1.0.Zx3.x5Osu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14285 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > Did Moray specifically mention the stone and if so, where? Yes... in the 5th edition. The fourth too if I recall. > > > But isn't the O2 to O3 process the one that blocks most of the 190nS UV (UVB) from > reaching the earth's surface so there wouldn't be any on the Earth's surface for his > machine to work from. The energy is some how in tune with it... so Moray states. However... it is my feeling that the energy come from within the device... could even be assisted by the ions contained within the air around us. Further tests will be done before my July conference and will be reported then. > > Or do you believe that the O2 to O3 process that collects the > energy in a way that can be used here on the surface. Yes... perhaps not too far off as a heat pump extracts heat from the air. The transformation of oxygen to ozone could absorb ions from the air. > > Or, am I confusing this with the O3 to O2 breakdown that blocks the bad UV. I'm not sure. > > What makes you believe it's the 190 nS band anyway? Because this is the wavelength that oxygen absorbs and tranforms in ozone. There are other clues... you will have to study the cd-rom and come to see this for yourself. Then we can discuss this better. > > > > > > > He also says that 'In the detector and intercepter circults it > > > becomes more important to maintain oscillatory action than frequency > > > stability.' Sound like he is using the upto 500kHz pulses as a 'battery' > > > but is the universal frequency anywhere in this range? That can't be > > > determined but as long as the energy in these pulses is larger than what > > > is required to maintain the resonance in the circult, maybe it doesn't matter. > > > > I think that he is referencing the high-voltage circuit here. > > But is that where the 500kHz storm frequency talk came from? Yes... it was discussed that at this frequency that the device may absorb energy from the ions generated from the storm. Not all of the answers are in yet. > > > > > > Also, what is a "glorified monochromator"? > > > > I have often wondered this myself. At the risk of appearing stupid, > > what is a "monochromator" anyway? > > > > >From what I can tell, a monochromator is a spectrometer tuned to visible and near > visible light. I wonder if Moray's 'glorified' one is equilalent to an average one > today. > They don't look cheap. That whole paragraph where he talks about penetrating quartz > (or similar) > > and then he stops because he thinks he is revealing too much is kind of weird. > I wonder what he didn't want to say? I really believe that it has to do with the 190 nanosecond wavelength. Call it a gut reaction. > > BTW, you don't talk about the valves and tubes any more. Do you consider > the super cells as superior in both a theoretical and practical basis. Actually... I am using a solidstate circuit in the antenna circuit. At my last July conference it blew out before it put out really hefty sparks like the night before the conference. I have solved this problem just yesterday. Now the solidstate valve hold up. I will be bringing at least two of these for my next conference. Yes... the super cells are replacing the tubes. The more I understand this source of energy the closer we come to perfecting it. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 19:12:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA29629; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:11:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:11:59 -0800 Message-ID: <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:53:18 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin van Spaandonk CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aZC1X.0.sE7._jOsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14286 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:29:46 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > [snip] > >> What makes you believe it's the 190 nS band anyway? > > > > > >Because this is the wavelength that oxygen absorbs > >and tranforms in ozone. There are other clues... you > >will have to study the cd-rom and come to see this > >for yourself. Then we can discuss this better. > [snip] > First, 190 nSec is about 5 MHz, not 500 kHz. Second the UV wavelength in > question is 190 nm (i.e. nano-meters, not nano-seconds). The frequency of > the UV light is more than 10^15 Hz, and obviously has absolutely nothing to > do with 500 kHz. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk Yes... but the 190 nanometers, I stand corrected, is generated from the ions in the device. These ions could be pumped from the storm source at this frequency. So... there apperas to be more than one mechanism in effect in the device. It is difficult to communicate all this. A person has to really study all of Moray's notes to see what directions that I am taking. If my logic appears wrong them I am open to reevaluation. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 19:34:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA06782; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:34:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:34:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000322223250.009806f0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:34:13 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"ywi9q1.0.tf1.o2Psu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14287 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i couldn't find a place to find TIN foil. otherwise i would've tried...can i get the same effect with aluminum? i tried to find the guy's house, since i live on staten island, but the name isn't in the phone book. worth a try to find his old work, no? At 06:16 PM 3/21/00 -0800, you wrote: >I received some anonymous email stating that the "gravity-warp capacitor" >on my website was built, and it lifts itself into the air when powered by >a VDG machine, with thrust about 4x higher than its weight, thrusting >axially according to polarity, and the thrust continues when the VDG is >turned off. > >Has anyone here tried building http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html ? >I suspected a hoax, so I never had the time to expend the large amount of >labor required. > >My thought is, if it can lift its own weight, then MAYBE a single >foil-paper-foil layer can also lift its own weight. If so, then it would >be VERY easy to verify this claim without having to build the entire >darned capacitor. Just add enough layers so that you were certain that it >wasn't just electrostatic repulsion or something. Make it hover around >the room, lifting a small counterweight as a balloon would. Or spin a >small wheel for hours if mounted tangentially on the rim? > >Note that it's HIGH VOLTAGE and a CAPACITOR. Easy to kill yourself unless >you can keep the value down below 100pF or so. > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 19:44:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21297; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:43:54 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:43:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:43:29 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg Subject: Re: New Class off Materials with negative Eps and Mu In-Reply-To: <38D92B1D.BC5FA187@verisoft.com.tr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FcSlO.0.aC5.pBPsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14288 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, hamdi ucar wrote: > http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mccomposite.htm > > > UCSD PHYSICISTS DEVELOP NEW CLASS OF COMPOSITE MATERIALS WITH 'REVERSED' PHYSICAL PROPERTIES NEVER BEFORE SEEN > > Minneapolis, MN-Physicists at the University of California, San Diego have produced a new class of composite materials with unusual physical properties that scientists theorized might be possible, but have never before been able to produce in nature. > > The remarkable achievement, detailed in a paper that will appear in a forthcoming issue of Physical Review Letters, was announced here today at a meeting of the American Physical Society. The UCSD physicists said they expect their discovery to open up a new subdiscipline within physics and produce an array of commercial applications for this material, on which the university has applied for a patent. > > "Composite materials like this are built on a totally new concept," said the two co-leaders of the UCSD team, Sheldon Schultz and David R. Smith, who announced their discovery at a news conference. "While they obey the laws of physics, they are predicte d to behave totally different from normal materials and should find interesting applications." > Just tell me that the paper isn't going to be released on April 1! Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 19:48:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22547; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:48:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:48:19 -0800 (PST) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:47:37 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id TAA22447 Resent-Message-ID: <"P3hw13.0.6W5._FPsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14289 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:53:18 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] >Yes... but the 190 nanometers, I stand corrected, is generated >from the ions in the device. These ions could be pumped from >the storm source at this frequency. So... there apperas to be >more than one mechanism in effect in the device. It is difficult >to communicate all this. A person has to really study all of Moray's >notes to see what directions that I am taking. If my logic appears >wrong them I am open to reevaluation. [snip] I can't really evaluate your logic Bruce, as I have no idea which device you are talking about. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 19:59:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA15911; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:58:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:58:40 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:43:01 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA15776 Resent-Message-ID: <"Z04wr2.0.Mu3.lPPsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14290 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:29:46 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: [snip] >> What makes you believe it's the 190 nS band anyway? > > >Because this is the wavelength that oxygen absorbs >and tranforms in ozone. There are other clues... you >will have to study the cd-rom and come to see this >for yourself. Then we can discuss this better. [snip] First, 190 nSec is about 5 MHz, not 500 kHz. Second the UV wavelength in question is 190 nm (i.e. nano-meters, not nano-seconds). The frequency of the UV light is more than 10^15 Hz, and obviously has absolutely nothing to do with 500 kHz. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 21:38:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17228; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:37:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:37:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000322223250.009806f0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"U_OzJ3.0.5D4.ksQsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14291 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Rymel wrote: > i couldn't find a place to find TIN foil. otherwise i would've tried... I found that tin can be bought from dental supply houses. I think my spool was about $40US, for maybe a quarter pound of .003" (which I've since given away to someone for another experiment! Rats!) > can i get the same effect with aluminum? Who knows? The paper says that aluminum won't work, but that might just be because of the soldering problem. Since this new claim mentions that there's thrust even from one group of plates (1/13th of the entire stack), then a pendulum test should easily show this. Build a small one with just a handfull of plates. Stick it in a plastic bag to eliminate any corona wind, then see if it deflects sideways when charged. One important thing about this newest claim: he is moving his equipment out to a separate workshop instead of his basement, because he became sick while working on the device, and is convinced that this was no conincidence. Didn't somebody become sick while messing with the "Gravity Resonance Coil" back in the old Keelynet BBS days? http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/gravity3.html Interesting that both of these supposedly create bad bio-effects, AND both of these claimed to have gravity/electromag effects. If the 6KG thrust is real, and if it will thrust horizontally as he says, then any number of free energy devices can be based on this effect. Since the thrust continues after the charging supply is removed, the device will behave like a "gravity permanent magnet", and if low-leakage dielectric is used, there is no reason that it need ever stop working. Also note: the DuLuc Drypile can ring a tiny electrostatic "Franklin bell" for centuries. It can be used to "top off" any high voltage capacitor. The end result could be an epoxy block that falls UP. Or a solid wheel which speeds up if not clamped to the earth. (Sounds like other gravity inventions, eh?) If this is real, then my gut feeling is that it involves something like ether-pumping. Or more likely, dark-matter pumping. If there is an inward flow of exotic material taking place everywhere on earth, and if there are simple ways to dip a "paddle" into this flow, then many things make perfect sense. Also, the peak energy might not be dangerously high, if the "flow" itself only contains a certain amount of energy. It would be bad luck if free energy devices were attainable, yet they liberated H-bomb levels of energy in each cubic millimeter of their active volume. We want to make the equivalent of a "home windmill," and not have the whole earth scoured bare by liberating billion-MPH "windstorms." > i tried to find the guy's house, since i live on staten island, but the > name isn't in the phone book. worth a try to find his old work, no? As the note on http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html says, somebody on FREENRG-L tracked him down years ago. He had died in a car crash. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 03:57:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA31622; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:57:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:57:07 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA06AF.4F08@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:57:35 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Working for a living? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MKCdJ1.0.xj7.IQWsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14292 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > I find the best way to raise research funds is to work for a living. > > > > fred Actually, the best way is to NOT work for a living ! The best way is through wise investments. That takes a little time and paying attention to the market. It CAN be done. Working for the other guy is NOT something to be desired. Indeed, getting the time and the money together is the best way to support research. -sam From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 04:16:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA01725; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:15:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:15:59 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA0B1B.60A1@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:16:27 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Orgone Energy vs. Electricity References: <0.990f7f66.25650306@aol.com> <003a01bf9499$6569c180$d6a970d1@markross> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H-iJi.0.sQ._hWsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14293 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sparky wrote: > <> > > > > By the way, great comments, Gary. It is interesting to consider what this > > means in the relation between orgonomy and electronics. I see the two as > > intricately related, although exactly how is not completely clear to me > > yet. But, it keeps bugging me that orgone accumulators are simply > > capacitors, and that they tend to discharge electricity at a certain > > point of build up. > > > > Thus, what is the point where orgone becomes electricity, and vice versa? > > Are electricity and orgone the same, only much different states like > > plasma versus a solid? Such strange stuff. Any other original insights > > into the relationship between orgone and electricity anyone? What most people do not realize is that Reich had all sorts of radioactive materials laying around him lab. Reich states that high-voltage activates orgone energy. What appears to be happening is that the negative plate on an orgone accumulator attracts radon gas emitted from the radioactive material. Polonium is formed... this is a pure alpha emitter. This would tends to explain why his vacor tubes had to be soaked in orgone before they would function. Not too many people know this but his cloud busters had radioactive ores in their bases. Transportation of one of these cloudbusters got Reich thrown in prison. It was the transportation of "hazardous radioactive material" that got him thrown into jail and not because of his medical discoveries. The blackened outside laboratory walls, Reich called deadly orgone energy (DOR) had to have been decayed polonium, or lead-210. This stuff would make you sick after long exposure. So... behind all of Reich's who hah hah is a truth that is stranger than fiction. From this we can take his research further if we can admit to ourselves that nuclear science involved and if we can put aside for a moment the paranoid ramblings of the atomic era mind-set. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 04:25:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA03800; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:25:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:25:11 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:25:40 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l_rtk3.0.Gx.dqWsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14294 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > I can't really evaluate your logic Bruce, as I have no idea which device you > are talking about. The radiant energy device. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 05:45:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA31761; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:44:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:44:45 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA1FCD.8E0F74C5@microtec.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:44:46 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: TIME TRANSCEIVER References: <38D92B1D.BC5FA187@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_9FP6.0.Am7.C_Xsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14295 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If those materials have such properties, we could use them to make a quantum tunneling barrier and pass a laser light by it so it can use negative energy properties to warp back in time so we can receive bits of information from the future. hamdi ucar wrote: > http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mccomposite.htm > > UCSD PHYSICISTS DEVELOP NEW CLASS OF COMPOSITE MATERIALS WITH 'REVERSED' PHYSICAL PROPERTIES NEVER BEFORE SEEN > > Minneapolis, MN-Physicists at the University of California, San Diego have produced a new class of composite materials with unusual physical properties that scientists theorized might be possible, but have never before been able to produce in nature. > > The remarkable achievement, detailed in a paper that will appear in a forthcoming issue of Physical Review Letters, was announced here today at a meeting of the American Physical Society. The UCSD physicists said they expect their discovery to open up a new subdiscipline within physics and produce an array of commercial applications for this material, on which the university has applied for a patent. > > "Composite materials like this are built on a totally new concept," said the two co-leaders of the UCSD team, Sheldon Schultz and David R. Smith, who announced their discovery at a news conference. "While they obey the laws of physics, they are predicte d to behave totally different from normal materials and should find interesting applications." > > The unusual property of this new class of materials is essentially its ability to reverse many of the physical properties that govern the behavior of ordinary materials. One such property is the Doppler effect, which makes a train whistle sound higher i n pitch as it approaches and lower in pitch as it recedes. According to Maxwell's equations, which describe the relationship between magnetic and electric fields, microwave radiation or light would show the opposite effect in this new class of materials, shifting to lower frequencies as a source approaches and to higher frequencies as it recedes. > > Similarly, Maxwell's equations further suggest that lenses that would normally disperse electromagnetic radiation would instead focus it within this composite material. This is because Snell's law, which describes the angle of refraction caused by the c hange in velocity of light and other waves through lenses, water and other types of ordinary material, is expected to be exactly opposite within this composite. > > "If these effects turn out to be possible at optical frequencies, this material would have the crazy property that a flashlight shining on a slab can focus the light at a point on the other side," said Schultz. "There's no way you can do that with just a sheet of ordinary material." > > He notes that the development of this new class of materials, which was financed by the National Science Foundation and the Department of Energy, is entirely consistent with the laws of physics and was predicted as a possibility in 1968 by a Russian the orist, V.G. Veselago. "But until now," Schultz adds, "no one had the material, so it couldn't be verified." > > Underlying the reversal of the Doppler effect, Snell's law, and Cerenkov radiation (radiation by charged particles moving through a medium) is that this new material exhibits a reversal of one of the "right-hand rules" of physics which describe a relati onship between the electric and magnetic fields and the direction of their wave velocity. > > The new materials are known by the UCSD team colloquially as "left-handed materials," after a term coined by Veselago, because they reverse this relationship. What that means is physically counterintuitive-pulses of electromagnetic radiation moving thro ugh the material in one direction are composed of constituent waves moving in the opposite direction. > > The UCSD physicists emphasized that while they believe their new class of composites will be shown to reverse Snell's law, the specific composite they produced will not do so at visible-light frequencies. Instead, it is now limited to transmitting micro wave radiation at frequencies of 4 to 7 Gigahertz-a range somewhere between the operation of household microwave ovens (3.3 Gigahertz) and military radars (10 Gigahertz). > > However, Schultz said the UCSD team will soon be attempting to verify that a composite constructed on similar principles will be able to focus and disperse microwaves in exactly the opposite manner as normal lenses. "We did not do this experiment yet," he said. "But this is what the equations predict. Physicists will understand that if our data presented in our paper are correct, given Maxwell's equations, then this will be the result." > > The composite constructed by the UCSD team-which also consisted of Willie J. Padilla, David C. Vier, and Syrus C. Nemat-Nasser-was produced from a series of thin copper rings and ordinary copper wire strung parallel to the rings. It is an example of a n ew class of materials scientists call "metamaterials." "Even though it is composed of only copper wires and copper rings, the arrangement has an effective magnetic response to microwaves that has never been demonstrated before," said Schultz. > > The idea for the new composite came from Smith, building on the work of John Pendry of Imperial College, London. In 1996, Pendry described a way of using ordinary copper wires to create a material with the property physicists call "negative electric per mittivity." Electric permittivity-often referred to as the "dielectric constant"-is the response of a material to electromagnetic radiation. > > "When you take a material like plastic, glass or sapphire and you shine microwaves onto it, you can characterize how the microwaves going through it will behave by a parameter called electric permittivity," explained Schultz. Most known materials in nat ure have a positive electric permittivity. > > Pendry also recently suggested a way of using copper rings to make a material with negative magnetic permeability at microwave frequencies. Just about all of the magnetic materials in nature, those that respond to magnetic rather than electric fields, h ave what physicists call a "positive magnetic permeability." > > What's unusual about the new class of materials produced by the UCSD team is that it simultaneously has a negative electric permittivity and a negative magnetic permeability, a combination of properties never before seen in a natural or man-made materia l. > > "And the interesting thing is that it's produced with no magnetic material," said Schultz. "It's all done with copper." > > "The bottom line," said Smith, "is that this material-this metamaterial, at frequencies where both the permittivity and permeability are negative, behaves according to a left-handed rule, rather than a right-handed rule." > > # # # > > David Smith can be reached March 20-22 in Minneapolis at 612-331-1900. > > Sheldon Schultz can be reached March 20-23 in Minneapolis at 612-333-4545 > > Messages for the UCSD scientists can also be left at the APS meeting pressroom at 612-335-6735, 6736, 6737, 6738. Pressroom Hours: Mon.-Wed. 8AM to 5PM, Thurs. 8AM to noon. The news conference will take place at 1 p.m. March 21 at the Minneapolis Conven tion Center, Room 203B. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 05:47:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA32213; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:47:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 05:47:17 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA2067.47AD6DA8@microtec.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:47:19 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? References: <200003230119.UAA19074@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Sv3AD1.0.Et7.b1Ysu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14296 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How can a symmetrical capacitor with no special shape or form have an intricate antigravity force ? It store a lot of energy, but has no special form that would show us there would be a force greater in one direction, that thing is completely symmetrical. It's just like energising an ordinary coil and then claiming it lifted itself up. who succeded with this capacitor, I'd like to contact him. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 06:02:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03940; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:00:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:00:55 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA2396.6908821A@microtec.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:00:54 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: billb@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: GRAVITY References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vwMnR1.0.Tz.MEYsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14297 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't see why tin should be used, if any material should be used it's copper for it's lower resistance, any "good metal" will store the electrons. instead of building plates and place them in a ring fashion, why not stack rings instead, one piece solid rings. also could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send me a small gif image showing how the capacitor is placed along with a vector showing the force. because if the force is SIDEWAYS then how come it's in one way more than the other since this thing is symetrical in shape. William Beaty wrote: > On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Rymel wrote: > > > i couldn't find a place to find TIN foil. otherwise i would've tried... > > I found that tin can be bought from dental supply houses. I think my > spool was about $40US, for maybe a quarter pound of .003" (which I've > since given away to someone for another experiment! Rats!) > > > can i get the same effect with aluminum? > > Who knows? The paper says that aluminum won't work, but that might just > be because of the soldering problem. > > Since this new claim mentions that there's thrust even from one group of > plates (1/13th of the entire stack), then a pendulum test should easily > show this. Build a small one with just a handfull of plates. Stick it in > a plastic bag to eliminate any corona wind, then see if it deflects > sideways when charged. > > One important thing about this newest claim: he is moving his equipment > out to a separate workshop instead of his basement, because he became sick > while working on the device, and is convinced that this was no > conincidence. > > Didn't somebody become sick while messing with the "Gravity Resonance > Coil" back in the old Keelynet BBS days? > http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/gravity3.html > > Interesting that both of these supposedly create bad bio-effects, AND both > of these claimed to have gravity/electromag effects. > > If the 6KG thrust is real, and if it will thrust horizontally as he says, > then any number of free energy devices can be based on this effect. Since > the thrust continues after the charging supply is removed, the device will > behave like a "gravity permanent magnet", and if low-leakage dielectric is > used, there is no reason that it need ever stop working. Also note: the > DuLuc Drypile can ring a tiny electrostatic "Franklin bell" for centuries. > It can be used to "top off" any high voltage capacitor. The end result > could be an epoxy block that falls UP. Or a solid wheel which speeds up > if not clamped to the earth. (Sounds like other gravity inventions, eh?) > > If this is real, then my gut feeling is that it involves something like > ether-pumping. Or more likely, dark-matter pumping. If there is an > inward flow of exotic material taking place everywhere on earth, and if > there are simple ways to dip a "paddle" into this flow, then many things > make perfect sense. Also, the peak energy might not be dangerously high, > if the "flow" itself only contains a certain amount of energy. It would > be bad luck if free energy devices were attainable, yet they liberated > H-bomb levels of energy in each cubic millimeter of their active volume. > We want to make the equivalent of a "home windmill," and not have the > whole earth scoured bare by liberating billion-MPH "windstorms." > > > i tried to find the guy's house, since i live on staten island, but the > > name isn't in the phone book. worth a try to find his old work, no? > > As the note on http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html says, somebody on > FREENRG-L tracked him down years ago. He had died in a car crash. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 06:27:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13046; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:27:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:27:40 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:01:22 -0500 Subject: Re: TIME TRANSCEIVER Message-ID: <20000323.091634.-399029.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-9,12-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"QTXoB2.0.hB3.RdYsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14298 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:44:46 -0500 patrick tremblay writes: > If those materials have such properties, > > we could use them to make a quantum tunneling barrier and pass a > laser light by it so it can use negative energy properties to warp > back in time so we can receive bits of information from the future. "Beam me up, Scotty!" Could you explain what you mean by this statement? I do not perceive any logical connections between quantum tunneling and the negative energy properties, or how they would affect time. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- A sign on a Tennessee highway: "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 06:28:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13124; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:27:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:27:56 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:16:25 -0500 Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Message-ID: <20000323.091634.-399029.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,17-21,24-31 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"-Zkrp2.0.zC3.hdYsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14299 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:47:19 -0500 patrick tremblay writes: > How can a symmetrical capacitor with no special shape or form have an > intricate antigravity force ? It store a lot of energy, but has no > special form that would show us there would be a force greater in > one direction, that thing is completely symmetrical. Not exactly. Read up on the Biefield-Brown (sp?) effect. According to this theory (I can't seem to find my references, so some of the details may be wrong, but not the general idea), a charged capacitor (made from 2 flat plates parallel to each other) will produce a directional force parallel to the electric field. For example, if you charged this capacitor with the positive plate facing the earth it would be more attracted to the earth and would seem to weigh more. But if you turned it over, the capacitor would seem to weigh less because the directional force created by the capacitor would oppose the pull of gravity. I do not know which way the force vector points, but you get the general idea. What exactly causes this force, I do not know. > It's just like energising an ordinary coil and then claiming it > lifted itself up. Why not? If it created an effect similar to the one mentioned above (only parallel with the magnetic field, rather than the electric field), then that would be possible. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- A sign on a Tennessee highway: "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 08:09:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA20254; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:08:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:08:43 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA411E.E5D@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:06:54 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Professional Jealousy..Tsk!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qOtsg1.0.Gy4.A6asu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14300 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Subject: Professional Jealousy..Tsk!! Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:39:21 +0200 From: Merlyn Reply-To: "Nu Energy Horizons" To: Nu Energy Horizons References: 1 , 2 Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org To All this may concern To all who have any doubts! I for one can testify the truth in Bruce Perreault's statements, as having been around when he put so much information available to any one who was interested. At the time there were a small handfull of free energy sites but only two that were worth looking at and only one with the depth it needed and the information to start research. If you look at Bruces archive page, that used to be his main page and it hasnt changed all that much in all this time. Anyone can go around pretending to be clever, and steal others hard earned information and claim it for thier own but not many people are prepared to make this kind of research, thier hard days work and thier labour of love, available to anyone who wants it..AND FOR FREE!! There is a difference in business and research. Business makes money any which way it can and research can make earnings. Trust me on this. Bruce - dont let them upset you, Its just a marker as to how well things are going. Professional jealousy always surfaces when things go well. Smile, knowing the truth and how it always comes out in the wash one way or another, and get on with more important things. Lyn From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 10:12:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19790; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:10:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:10:53 -0800 Message-ID: <20000323181005.11536.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [198.73.106.2] From: "Fred Walter" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: patents Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:10:05 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"J7kvp2.0.5r4.hubsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14301 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There are lots of interesting alternative health and alternative energy patents/patent applications. Some of them are either linked to, or directly available at: http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/patentcollection The material is in the public domain, so have a party eith it, eh? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 11:48:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA14850; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:47:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:47:42 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA74EF.367D@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:47:59 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: patents References: <20000323181005.11536.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RjoPT3.0.nd3.SJdsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14302 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Walter wrote: > > There are lots of interesting alternative health and alternative energy > patents/patent applications. > > Some of them are either linked to, or directly available at: > > http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/patentcollection > > The material is in the public domain, so have a party eith it, eh? Why don't you do what is right and mention my name and website on this list in regards to the British and Canadian Tesla Patents? -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 12:04:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20699; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:03:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:03:58 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA78C3.7310@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:04:19 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents References: <20000323194935.95331.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"epbSx3.0.K35.jYdsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14303 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Walter wrote: > > Bruce, you are still posting lies about me, after I asked you to stop. > > The .pdf files that were on my web-site were created by me. > > If they are the same as the ones on your CDROM then > you took copies of my .pdf files and used them. Oh contrare... my proof is in the mail... Jerry Decker was also sent copies via certified mail... I'm sure he will find an angle to distort the truth though... The US patents do appear to be someone elses scans. However... the others are not! > > Post a retraction, stating that the .pdf files are not the same. > Or I'm contacting your ISP about your slander and libel. > After all the times that Jerry Decker has contacted them, > how much more will they take before they kick you off? My ISP is well aware of Decker's vain setups ans attempts to get me my website pulled off the internet. I thought Decker was against suppression of information? It is you two who continue to throw dirt on me. Legal notice is being served to Jerry Decker this week. I am trying to be a fair person but you two keep on driving the nails. I'm sure Bill Beaty has had it with these posts. Please discontinue your unfounded remarks directed my way. All I can say at this point is that the proof is in the mail. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 12:06:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA09255; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:05:25 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:05:25 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:03:21 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: patrick tremblay cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GRAVITY In-Reply-To: <38DA2396.6908821A@microtec.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"s0eV4.0.OG2.1adsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14304 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, patrick tremblay wrote: > I don't see why tin should be used, if any material should be used it's copper > for it's lower resistance, any "good metal" will store the electrons. Tin is known to work. The first rule in replication of weird devices is WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT WORKS, THEREFORE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL SCREW IT UP, THEREFORE FOLLOW PLANS EXACTLY. "Ego-based improvements" always screw things up. Most people cannot stand to duplicate somebody else's work exactly, and they feel that they must "improve" it by making changes. But until we have a working device on our lab bench, we can't do anything. So, FIRST duplicate the success, and THEN make changes to learn what affects the phenomenon. As with cold fusion, if everybody ignores Pons and Fleichman's recommendations, and instead tries their own method... when they fail, they declare that CF doesn't work, and attack Pons and Fleichman instead of attacking their own mistakes. > instead of building plates and place them in a ring fashion, why not stack > rings instead, one piece solid rings. Very good idea. But if it fails to give thrust, are you CERTAIN that this was because you used rings? Maybe the gravity effect only can function at certain locations on the earth. Maybe only a particular kind of wax paper will work. Maybe, as with cold fusion, one batch of tin works well, but most other batches of tin do nothing at all, because tiny impurities wreck the effect. Until we know differently, we must assume the worst. Otherwise it will rise up and bite us. > also could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send me a small gif image showing how the > capacitor is placed along with a vector showing the force. > > because if the force is SIDEWAYS then how come it's in one way more than the > other since this thing is symetrical in shape. As the messages state, he has run it vertically and seen totaly levitation, but he thinks it thrusts sideways when tilted. He's going to test one group of 30 plates horizontally. It is a mystery to me why it works at all, or why the thrust direction depends on polarity. Only the end plates are asymmetrical, while the bulk of the capacitor is not! If it really works this way, then perhaps the large thrust can be easily controlled by altering the polarity of just the end plate! It would be a "force amplifier", but the power supply to this "amplifier" would be a free-energy effect. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 12:30:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA14235; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:28:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:28:19 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:28:05 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? In-Reply-To: <38DA2067.47AD6DA8@microtec.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vqsGr1.0.9U3.Uvdsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14305 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, patrick tremblay wrote: > How can a symmetrical capacitor with no special shape or form have an > intricate antigravity force ? It store a lot of energy, but has no > special form that would show us there would be a force greater in one > direction, that thing is completely symmetrical. Yes, this is the main reason why I never built one of these myself. The idea appears silly! However, it contains one big positive feature: it basically says "I stumbled across this weird effect, here's how to replicate." This is totally different than the typical crackpot project, where somebody has delerious visions, builds a device, then (probably) fools themselves into thinking that it is real. It reeks of ego-driven self-dishonesty. If the gravity-capacitor is just a hoax, it is an "honest" hoax, and not an example of Pathological Science in action. > who succeded with this capacitor, I'd like to contact him. He wishes to remain anonymous until others manage to duplicate the effect. I don't blame him. (No, I don't know anything about him except his email address.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 12:45:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17259; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:38:52 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:38:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38DA8E68.3F361894@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:36:41 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TIME TRANSCEIVER References: <38D92B1D.BC5FA187@verisoft.com.tr> <38DA1FCD.8E0F74C5@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fU28l2.0.LD4.C3esu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14306 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: good point... I can't help but think though that the current description of quantum entanglement is horribly flawed, especially when you consider that they still don't know the 'why' of the mechanism nor can they figure out an alternative means beyond conventional communciations technology to inform the 'other' end of state change.... plus the label 'entanglement' sucks... ;) Why not choose something using the word 'harmony' or 'synchronizing' or somthing..... patrick tremblay wrote: > If those materials have such properties, > > we could use them to make a quantum tunneling barrier and pass a laser light by it so it can use negative energy properties to warp back in time so we can receive bits of information from the future. > > hamdi ucar wrote: > > > http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mccomposite.htm > > > > UCSD PHYSICISTS DEVELOP NEW CLASS OF COMPOSITE MATERIALS WITH 'REVERSED' PHYSICAL PROPERTIES NEVER BEFORE SEEN > > > > Minneapolis, MN-Physicists at the University of California, San Diego have produced a new class of composite materials with unusual physical properties that scientists theorized might be possible, but have never before been able to produce in nature. > > > > The remarkable achievement, detailed in a paper that will appear in a forthcoming issue of Physical Review Letters, was announced here today at a meeting of the American Physical Society. The UCSD physicists said they expect their discovery to open up a new subdiscipline within physics and produce an array of commercial applications for this material, on which the university has applied for a patent. > > > > "Composite materials like this are built on a totally new concept," said the two co-leaders of the UCSD team, Sheldon Schultz and David R. Smith, who announced their discovery at a news conference. "While they obey the laws of physics, they are predic ted to behave totally different from normal materials and should find interesting applications." > > > > The unusual property of this new class of materials is essentially its ability to reverse many of the physical properties that govern the behavior of ordinary materials. One such property is the Doppler effect, which makes a train whistle sound higher in pitch as it approaches and lower in pitch as it recedes. According to Maxwell's equations, which describe the relationship between magnetic and electric fields, microwave radiation or light would show the opposite effect in this new class of materials , shifting to lower frequencies as a source approaches and to higher frequencies as it recedes. > > > > Similarly, Maxwell's equations further suggest that lenses that would normally disperse electromagnetic radiation would instead focus it within this composite material. This is because Snell's law, which describes the angle of refraction caused by the change in velocity of light and other waves through lenses, water and other types of ordinary material, is expected to be exactly opposite within this composite. > > > > "If these effects turn out to be possible at optical frequencies, this material would have the crazy property that a flashlight shining on a slab can focus the light at a point on the other side," said Schultz. "There's no way you can do that with jus t a sheet of ordinary material." > > > > He notes that the development of this new class of materials, which was financed by the National Science Foundation and the Department of Energy, is entirely consistent with the laws of physics and was predicted as a possibility in 1968 by a Russian t heorist, V.G. Veselago. "But until now," Schultz adds, "no one had the material, so it couldn't be verified." > > > > Underlying the reversal of the Doppler effect, Snell's law, and Cerenkov radiation (radiation by charged particles moving through a medium) is that this new material exhibits a reversal of one of the "right-hand rules" of physics which describe a rela tionship between the electric and magnetic fields and the direction of their wave velocity. > > > > The new materials are known by the UCSD team colloquially as "left-handed materials," after a term coined by Veselago, because they reverse this relationship. What that means is physically counterintuitive-pulses of electromagnetic radiation moving th rough the material in one direction are composed of constituent waves moving in the opposite direction. > > > > The UCSD physicists emphasized that while they believe their new class of composites will be shown to reverse Snell's law, the specific composite they produced will not do so at visible-light frequencies. Instead, it is now limited to transmitting mic rowave radiation at frequencies of 4 to 7 Gigahertz-a range somewhere between the operation of household microwave ovens (3.3 Gigahertz) and military radars (10 Gigahertz). > > > > However, Schultz said the UCSD team will soon be attempting to verify that a composite constructed on similar principles will be able to focus and disperse microwaves in exactly the opposite manner as normal lenses. "We did not do this experiment yet, " he said. "But this is what the equations predict. Physicists will understand that if our data presented in our paper are correct, given Maxwell's equations, then this will be the result." > > > > The composite constructed by the UCSD team-which also consisted of Willie J. Padilla, David C. Vier, and Syrus C. Nemat-Nasser-was produced from a series of thin copper rings and ordinary copper wire strung parallel to the rings. It is an example of a new class of materials scientists call "metamaterials." "Even though it is composed of only copper wires and copper rings, the arrangement has an effective magnetic response to microwaves that has never been demonstrated before," said Schultz. > > > > The idea for the new composite came from Smith, building on the work of John Pendry of Imperial College, London. In 1996, Pendry described a way of using ordinary copper wires to create a material with the property physicists call "negative electric p ermittivity." Electric permittivity-often referred to as the "dielectric constant"-is the response of a material to electromagnetic radiation. > > > > "When you take a material like plastic, glass or sapphire and you shine microwaves onto it, you can characterize how the microwaves going through it will behave by a parameter called electric permittivity," explained Schultz. Most known materials in n ature have a positive electric permittivity. > > > > Pendry also recently suggested a way of using copper rings to make a material with negative magnetic permeability at microwave frequencies. Just about all of the magnetic materials in nature, those that respond to magnetic rather than electric fields, have what physicists call a "positive magnetic permeability." > > > > What's unusual about the new class of materials produced by the UCSD team is that it simultaneously has a negative electric permittivity and a negative magnetic permeability, a combination of properties never before seen in a natural or man-made mater ial. > > > > "And the interesting thing is that it's produced with no magnetic material," said Schultz. "It's all done with copper." > > > > "The bottom line," said Smith, "is that this material-this metamaterial, at frequencies where both the permittivity and permeability are negative, behaves according to a left-handed rule, rather than a right-handed rule." > > > > # # # > > > > David Smith can be reached March 20-22 in Minneapolis at 612-331-1900. > > > > Sheldon Schultz can be reached March 20-23 in Minneapolis at 612-333-4545 > > > > Messages for the UCSD scientists can also be left at the APS meeting pressroom at 612-335-6735, 6736, 6737, 6738. Pressroom Hours: Mon.-Wed. 8AM to 5PM, Thurs. 8AM to noon. The news conference will take place at 1 p.m. March 21 at the Minneapolis Conv ention Center, Room 203B. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 12:48:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03637; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:47:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:47:27 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:35:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Canadian & British Tesla Patents Message-ID: <20000323.153526.-418397.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-8,13-20 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"h8bxk.0.ju.UBesu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14307 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:04:19 -0500 "Bruce A. Perreault" writes: > I'm sure Bill Beaty has had it with these posts. Please discontinue > your unfounded remarks directed my way. All I can say at this point > is that the proof is in the mail. > > > -Bruce A. Perreault Even if he's not, I'm sure the rest of us are tired of hearing your bickering. What it really boils down to is whether we will take your word or Decker's word as to who is in the wrong. Can't you and Decker and Walters just drop it? Or, better yet, create a special bickering list and make sure my address isn't on it. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- A sign on a Tennessee highway: "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 12:55:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08342; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:55:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:55:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:51:03 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? In-Reply-To: <20000323.091634.-399029.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"T7McO1.0.B22.fIesu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14308 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > Not exactly. Read up on the Biefield-Brown (sp?) effect. According to > this theory (I can't seem to find my references, so some of the details > may be wrong, but not the general idea), a charged capacitor (made from 2 > flat plates parallel to each other) will produce a directional force But the added layers don't add to the directional charge or to the directional e-field inside. Only if the layers had alternating thicknesses would there be any asymmetry within the stack. This is symmetrical: +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ This is not: +- +- +- +- +- +- +- +- +- + So the real question is, why can't TWO plates lift a 6KG mass, since the force from the rest of the plates should sum to zero if the effect comes from normal electrostatics. Weird speculation: It has something to do with the cellulose in the wax paper. Cellulose is chiral, no? Maybe any conductor would work, but the dielectric must only be wax paper. Another: it has something to do with ionized air and corona currents, and if it was immersed in oil, it would never work again. Or if it was pumped down and then immersed in some other gas besides N2/O2, it would give very different thrust. Another: it doesn't depend on polarity, instead the thrust randomly adopts a certain direction when the capacitor is first activated, but then it "sticks" that way because the material has become gravitationally biased or spiralled or something. If the polarity is then reversed, the thrust does then reverse. Idea: print the electrode pattern onto paper with conductive ink (powered tin?), then glue the papers alternately with layers of wax paper to form a very solid stack. Idea: power the thing with a DuLuc Drypile electrostatic battery. Make arrays of little electrode rings, encapsulate it, then charge it up and seal it. Then, if the device was sawed in half, each half would still lift? It's a way to make "Upsidasium", the antigravity mineral featured in an episode of Rockey and Bullwinkle. Build a floating antigravity island using bricks of paper/carbon/glue, from which to organize your mad scientist empire. Yes, Pinky, we can use it to RULE THE WORLD!!!! :) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 13:20:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20241; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:20:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:20:25 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Class off Materials with negative Eps and Mu Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:20:22 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38dae733.387770204@mail.midiowa.net> References: <38D93D9F.E6A0666C@verisoft.com.tr> <38db6963.355562321@mail.midiowa.net> <38D974A0.3A9B27A5@verisoft.com.tr> In-Reply-To: <38D974A0.3A9B27A5@verisoft.com.tr> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA20129 Resent-Message-ID: <"X0sK_2.0.9y4.Ogesu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14309 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Hamdi, On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:34:24 +0200, hamdi ucar wrote: >This is absolutely not a joke, although sound like a joke, really incredible! I found referenced John Bendry's papers on LANL archive. Some of the appears directly related to the topic. I'm sure valid references are given in the press release. But I'm sure the Doppler effect has nothing to do with whatever they're pushing. :) -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 14:36:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16285; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:36:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:36:07 -0800 Message-ID: <38DA9C51.2C8FC4F1@microtec.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:36:02 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? References: <20000323.091634.-399029.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4LM8B3.0.M-3.Mnfsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14310 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: But the total direction of the electrical field cancels because negative plates are sandwiched between positive plates and vice-versa. so how come this capacitor can produce a force in one direction ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 15:59:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA14208; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:58:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:58:59 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:58:36 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA14172 Resent-Message-ID: <"Eo1pk1.0.uT3.1_gsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14311 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:25:40 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >> >> I can't really evaluate your logic Bruce, as I have no idea which device you >> are talking about. > >The radiant energy device. Ok, but I still don't know what it looks like. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 16:06:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27488; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:05:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:05:23 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:03:24 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Enough about patents In-Reply-To: <38D97A16.433A@cyberportal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tputv3.0.Cj6.x4hsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14312 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Everyone's position on this "patents" controversy is now clear, so I think we can drop it. Or, if people want to continue it, the VORTEXB-L list server was created for just that purpose. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 16:13:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18956; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:12:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:12:58 -0800 Message-ID: <38DAB0FC.F65C07EA@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:04:12 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GRAVITY References: <38DA2396.6908821A@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dx8lc2.0.3e4.8Chsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14313 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Personally I think it would be foolish to change such things... Tin does have different qualities to copper or AL. And I have no doubt that the circular segmented arangement is needed to get more thrust. otherwise you just have a weak brown capacitor. Stick to the plans! patrick tremblay wrote: > I don't see why tin should be used, if any material should be used it's copper > for it's lower resistance, any "good metal" will store the electrons. > > instead of building plates and place them in a ring fashion, why not stack > rings instead, one piece solid rings. > > also could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send me a small gif image showing how the > capacitor is placed along with a vector showing the force. > > because if the force is SIDEWAYS then how come it's in one way more than the > other since this thing is symetrical in shape. > > William Beaty wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Rymel wrote: > > > > > i couldn't find a place to find TIN foil. otherwise i would've tried... > > > > I found that tin can be bought from dental supply houses. I think my > > spool was about $40US, for maybe a quarter pound of .003" (which I've > > since given away to someone for another experiment! Rats!) > > > > > can i get the same effect with aluminum? > > > > Who knows? The paper says that aluminum won't work, but that might just > > be because of the soldering problem. > > > > Since this new claim mentions that there's thrust even from one group of > > plates (1/13th of the entire stack), then a pendulum test should easily > > show this. Build a small one with just a handfull of plates. Stick it in > > a plastic bag to eliminate any corona wind, then see if it deflects > > sideways when charged. > > > > One important thing about this newest claim: he is moving his equipment > > out to a separate workshop instead of his basement, because he became sick > > while working on the device, and is convinced that this was no > > conincidence. > > > > Didn't somebody become sick while messing with the "Gravity Resonance > > Coil" back in the old Keelynet BBS days? > > http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/gravity3.html > > > > Interesting that both of these supposedly create bad bio-effects, AND both > > of these claimed to have gravity/electromag effects. > > > > If the 6KG thrust is real, and if it will thrust horizontally as he says, > > then any number of free energy devices can be based on this effect. Since > > the thrust continues after the charging supply is removed, the device will > > behave like a "gravity permanent magnet", and if low-leakage dielectric is > > used, there is no reason that it need ever stop working. Also note: the > > DuLuc Drypile can ring a tiny electrostatic "Franklin bell" for centuries. > > It can be used to "top off" any high voltage capacitor. The end result > > could be an epoxy block that falls UP. Or a solid wheel which speeds up > > if not clamped to the earth. (Sounds like other gravity inventions, eh?) > > > > If this is real, then my gut feeling is that it involves something like > > ether-pumping. Or more likely, dark-matter pumping. If there is an > > inward flow of exotic material taking place everywhere on earth, and if > > there are simple ways to dip a "paddle" into this flow, then many things > > make perfect sense. Also, the peak energy might not be dangerously high, > > if the "flow" itself only contains a certain amount of energy. It would > > be bad luck if free energy devices were attainable, yet they liberated > > H-bomb levels of energy in each cubic millimeter of their active volume. > > We want to make the equivalent of a "home windmill," and not have the > > whole earth scoured bare by liberating billion-MPH "windstorms." > > > > > i tried to find the guy's house, since i live on staten island, but the > > > name isn't in the phone book. worth a try to find his old work, no? > > > > As the note on http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html says, somebody on > > FREENRG-L tracked him down years ago. He had died in a car crash. > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 16:28:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24328; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:27:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 16:27:47 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: patents Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:27:22 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <199709201725.KAA05307@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199709201725.KAA05307@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA24294 Resent-Message-ID: <"hbKCc1.0.yx5.zPhsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14314 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:27:30 -0700, Wes Crosiar wrote: >To all: I received a copy of the robert adams patent from australia. It is >fantastic to say the least. I am not sure it is complete and would like a >copy of it and: Australian patents can be accessed online at http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/ . Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 19:28:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20700; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:27:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:27:58 -0800 Message-Id: <200003240326.OAA03157@turbo.turboweb.net.au> X-Mailer: Eudora Pro 1.1 for Newton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:44:00 +1000 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" From: Allan Alderson Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Resent-Message-ID: <"LL2O53.0.K35.z2ksu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14315 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:16:28 -0800 (PST), William Beaty wrote: > >Has anyone here tried building http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html ? >I suspected a hoax, so I never had the time to expend the large amount of >labor required [snip] I started and got to about an inch in 'depth' (wow, it does take a long time.) It's made out of Al cooking foil and 'laminex' (used as kitchen bench tops), bolted together with four long bolts. I've put the output from a TV trippIer connected to it but when it shorted- out BADLY, I put it aside. Perhaps prematurely! Now, where's my carona dope . . . When I first saw the design, it was from a friend in Tasmania who sent me an A4 sheet with info on the 1940s. It included everything on your site plus a photograph of a saucer-shaped craft hovering about ten meters off the ground along with its 'logo'. Various people in uniform were also in the scene with one officer standing in front of the camera looking away. I looked carefully at the shadow it was casting and it sure looked right. The craft was not tethered. P.S. What is a Fitzeous' Condenser? - Allan. ---- ---- ---- ---- Reply with a 'text-only' message. adsaa@turboweb.net.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 19:57:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27517; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:57:00 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:57:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005601bf9544$30d5dca0$139910cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:51:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"roEqb.0.Rj6.1Uksu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14316 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'll try building it this weekend. I still do not know where to get tin foil, though. Home Depot does not have it. I may have to substitute with Aluminum foil. I think I'll try to stick with the plans that this anonymous person has provided on your website. But what is the thickness of the wax paper, and of the tin foil? The website says 390 tin layers, 781 wax paper layers, with 9 segmented tin plates on a given tin layer. If he sticks to the design on Bill's site, then that means: one tin layer - two wax paper layers of segmented plates - one tin layer makes up one capacitor. And there are 195 of them, with the extra wax paper on the end? Do both ends have extra layers of wax paper as the original article says? I find it hard to believe that a van de graaf generator, or for that matter any voltage source greater than a few kV, does not puncture the wax paper dielectric. But, hey, I'll try building this thing. What's a few hours of work to verify/refute an experiment, as opposed to countless hours debating about the effect? ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? > > I received some anonymous email stating that the "gravity-warp capacitor" > on my website was built, and it lifts itself into the air when powered by > a VDG machine, with thrust about 4x higher than its weight, thrusting > axially according to polarity, and the thrust continues when the VDG is > turned off. > > Has anyone here tried building http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html ? > I suspected a hoax, so I never had the time to expend the large amount of > labor required. > > My thought is, if it can lift its own weight, then MAYBE a single > foil-paper-foil layer can also lift its own weight. If so, then it would > be VERY easy to verify this claim without having to build the entire > darned capacitor. Just add enough layers so that you were certain that it > wasn't just electrostatic repulsion or something. Make it hover around > the room, lifting a small counterweight as a balloon would. Or spin a > small wheel for hours if mounted tangentially on the rim? > > Note that it's HIGH VOLTAGE and a CAPACITOR. Easy to kill yourself unless > you can keep the value down below 100pF or so. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 20:11:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01607; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:10:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:10:42 -0800 Message-ID: <38DAEADC.7DEC@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:11:08 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: patrick tremblay CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> <38DA25B6.8DE786D@microtec.net > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VrTxg2.0.0P.1hksu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14317 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: patrick tremblay wrote: > > Bruce I'm a little mixed about your energy device: > > You are talking of a radiant energy fuel cell radioactive device... > Now you got me, the device you are going to produce is it: A Fuel Cell > OR a radiant device OR a nuclear generator? I am perfecting a radiant circuit and at the same time a fuel cell that will work with or without radioactive material. My pending patent was sent out to around fifty people who had made a request for it. The circuit energizes the fuel cell. No one has ever used my method to the best of my knowledge. T. H. Moray hinted to it but I don't think that he realized that the method that I am using was taking place within his power-tubes. I have also discovered a way to replace his valves. It was only a few days ago that I solved the burn out problem. The valve that I brought to the conference last July had burned out before it displayed the damped energy surges that I witnessed the night previous. I have now solved this burnout problem and can now demonstrate the effect at my next conference this upcoming July. > > if it's a fuel cell then why radioactive materials and what's with > this radiant device? I have gone beyond T. H. Morays original work in many areas. My fuel cell design can run on hydrogen assisted by the pumped ions from the circuit, or it can use radioactive material to replace the electronic ion pump. Without the hydrogen the cell will put out energy for a long time. T. H. Moray's power tubes lasted for a few months. With the hydrogen this can be extended indefinately. There are many aspects to my research. Someday I will have to open a school to teach all that I have learned. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 20:17:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03176; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:17:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:17:02 -0800 Message-ID: <325380B7F2EED211B46700805F15B4654D1C73@itntl-msg02.itntl.bhp.com.au> From: "Croese, Darren DM" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: New Class off Materials with negative Eps and Mu Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:13:55 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"_D3IZ1.0.Tn.zmksu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14318 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The New Scientist site is carrying an article on this material. It mentions the Doppler shift, effects on light, etc though I'll warn that it is quite a brief article on the Net. Perhaps there's more in the mag? The URL is : http://www.newscientist.com/news/news_223139.html Cheers, Daz. "A danger sign of the lapse from true skepticism in to dogmatism is an inability to respect those who disagree" - Dr. Leonard George > ---------- > From: hamdi ucar[SMTP:hamdix@verisoft.com.tr] > Reply To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Sent: Thursday, 23 March 2000 7:20 > To: freenrg; vortex > Subject: New Class off Materials with negative Eps and Mu > > http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mccomposite.htm > > > UCSD PHYSICISTS DEVELOP NEW CLASS OF COMPOSITE MATERIALS WITH 'REVERSED' PHYSICAL PROPERTIES NEVER BEFORE SEEN > > Minneapolis, MN-Physicists at the University of California, San Diego have produced a new class of composite materials with unusual physical properties that scientists theorized might be possible, but have never before been able to produce in nature. > > The remarkable achievement, detailed in a paper that will appear in a forthcoming issue of Physical Review Letters, was announced here today at a meeting of the American Physical Society. The UCSD physicists said they expect their discovery to open up a new subdiscipline within physics and produce an array of commercial applications for this material, on which the university has applied for a patent. > > "Composite materials like this are built on a totally new concept," said the two co-leaders of the UCSD team, Sheldon Schultz and David R. Smith, who announced their discovery at a news conference. "While they obey the laws of physics, they are predicte d to behave totally different from normal materials and should find interesting applications." > > The unusual property of this new class of materials is essentially its ability to reverse many of the physical properties that govern the behavior of ordinary materials. One such property is the Doppler effect, which makes a train whistle sound higher i n pitch as it approaches and lower in pitch as it recedes. According to Maxwell's equations, which describe the relationship between magnetic and electric fields, microwave radiation or light would show the opposite effect in this new class of materials, shifting to lower frequencies as a source approaches and to higher frequencies as it recedes. > > Similarly, Maxwell's equations further suggest that lenses that would normally disperse electromagnetic radiation would instead focus it within this composite material. This is because Snell's law, which describes the angle of refraction caused by the c hange in velocity of light and other waves through lenses, water and other types of ordinary material, is expected to be exactly opposite within this composite. > > "If these effects turn out to be possible at optical frequencies, this material would have the crazy property that a flashlight shining on a slab can focus the light at a point on the other side," said Schultz. "There's no way you can do that with just a sheet of ordinary material." > > He notes that the development of this new class of materials, which was financed by the National Science Foundation and the Department of Energy, is entirely consistent with the laws of physics and was predicted as a possibility in 1968 by a Russian the orist, V.G. Veselago. "But until now," Schultz adds, "no one had the material, so it couldn't be verified." > > Underlying the reversal of the Doppler effect, Snell's law, and Cerenkov radiation (radiation by charged particles moving through a medium) is that this new material exhibits a reversal of one of the "right-hand rules" of physics which describe a relati onship between the electric and magnetic fields and the direction of their wave velocity.> > > The new materials are known by the UCSD team colloquially as "left-handed materials," after a term coined by Veselago, because they reverse this relationship. What that means is physically counterintuitive-pulses of electromagnetic radiation moving thro ugh the material in one direction are composed of constituent waves moving in the opposite direction.> > > The UCSD physicists emphasized that while they believe their new class of composites will be shown to reverse Snell's law, the specific composite they produced will not do so at visible-light frequencies. Instead, it is now limited to transmitting micro wave radiation at frequencies of 4 to 7 Gigahertz-a range somewhere between the operation of household microwave ovens (3.3 Gigahertz) and military radars (10 Gigahertz). > > However, Schultz said the UCSD team will soon be attempting to verify that a composite constructed on similar principles will be able to focus and disperse microwaves in exactly the opposite manner as normal lenses. "We did not do this experiment yet," he said. "But this is what the equations predict. Physicists will understand that if our data presented in our paper are correct, given Maxwell's equations, then this will be the result." > > The composite constructed by the UCSD team-which also consisted of Willie J. Padilla, David C. Vier, and Syrus C. Nemat-Nasser-was produced from a series of thin copper rings and ordinary copper wire strung parallel to the rings. It is an example of a n ew class of materials scientists call "metamaterials." "Even though it is composed of only copper wires and copper rings, the arrangement has an effective magnetic response to microwaves that has never been demonstrated before," said Schultz. > > The idea for the new composite came from Smith, building on the work of John Pendry of Imperial College, London. In 1996, Pendry described a way of using ordinary copper wires to create a material with the property physicists call "negative electric per mittivity." Electric permittivity-often referred to as the "dielectric constant"-is the response of a material to electromagnetic radiation. > > "When you take a material like plastic, glass or sapphire and you shine microwaves onto it, you can characterize how the microwaves going through it will behave by a parameter called electric permittivity," explained Schultz. Most known materials in nat ure have a positive electric permittivity. > > Pendry also recently suggested a way of using copper rings to make a material with negative magnetic permeability at microwave frequencies. Just about all of the magnetic materials in nature, those that respond to magnetic rather than electric fields, h ave what physicists call a "positive magnetic permeability." > > What's unusual about the new class of materials produced by the UCSD team is that it simultaneously has a negative electric permittivity and a negative magnetic permeability, a combination of properties never before seen in a natural or man-made materia l. > > "And the interesting thing is that it's produced with no magnetic material," said Schultz. "It's all done with copper." > > "The bottom line," said Smith, "is that this material-this metamaterial, at frequencies where both the permittivity and permeability are negative, behaves according to a left-handed rule, rather than a right-handed rule." > > # # # > > David Smith can be reached March 20-22 in Minneapolis at 612-331-1900. > > Sheldon Schultz can be reached March 20-23 in Minneapolis at 612-333-4545 > > Messages for the UCSD scientists can also be left at the APS meeting pressroom at 612-335-6735, 6736, 6737, 6738. Pressroom Hours: Mon.-Wed. 8AM to 5PM, Thurs. 8AM to noon. The news conference will take place at 1 p.m. March 21 at the Minneapolis Conven tion Center, Room 203B. > > EOM NOTICE - This message contains information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. It may also be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate , copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify postmaster@bhp.com.au. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 22:18:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA04608; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:17:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:17:47 -0800 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: billb@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:18:22 -0800 Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Message-ID: <20000323.221839.-377669.2.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5-6,8,10-12,14,16-23 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"8IRUm2.0.p71.9Ymsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14319 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill, Thank you for posting the info on the gravity capacitor. Very interesting considering the fact that the Biefield-Brown effect was also supposed to push in the direction of the positive pole. I also agree that this might have something to do with Testatika, there is one old report (Hans Nieper I think) that the Testatika changes weight while operating. Testatika uses layers of perforated foil or sheet metal in some of its parts. I have always thought that if the vacuum energy could be used for as an energy source, it should also be a source of momentum. In other words, "anti-gravity" and "free-energy" go together. Please do keep in communication with this fellow and keep us posted. If you find a good place to bye the tin foil please pass on the info. As usual, great thought provoking information ! Thanks, Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 23:21:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA14501; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:20:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:20:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000b01bf951f$26e48ae0$a9b522cf@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:26:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"-D-1c2.0.DY3.3Tnsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14320 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Re tin foil Alpha-Aesar 800-343-0660 , kind of expensive but available. they likely have a web site. They also have every other element/compound known to man -----Original Message----- From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: billb@eskimo.com Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 6:18 AM Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 05:46:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA27817; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 05:46:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 05:46:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 05:46:10 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hb_pf.0.Yo6.b6tsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14321 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) To experimenter.. >Have you asked this guy for pictures of his Grav-cap? You have to wait few days more. I want to explain that I want to sent you picture and video the device live to see its thrust. And I am trapped, fearing to use it. Bad fielings and nighmares, {Is probably worse). But I have to do it so soon you 'll receive video "avi" with my live capacitor (beast) in next days (next week I 'll return from my business travel and settle to work and experiment), (I hope without any fear). Take my word at the moment, and start building it to see it in front of you, is easy to dublicate a "part" of it. Or wait for pictures to come. >Has anyone looking into the properties of Tin? >Tin's crystaline structure is tetragonal... Thank you for the information, I havent "complete" my studie on materials for use for the capacitor yet. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 06:12:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04448; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 06:11:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 06:11:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 06:11:36 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? In-Reply-To: <005601bf9544$30d5dca0$139910cf@drosigno> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"x9QHA3.0.K51.UUtsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14322 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, David Rosignoli wrote: > I find it hard to believe that a van de graaf generator, or for that matter > any voltage source greater than a few kV, does not puncture the wax paper > dielectric. This could be a matter of luck. Since the current from a VDG is so low, and since leakage within the capacitor looks like a resistor, the maximum voltage of the VDG would be very low when the capacitor is attached (probably below 10KV?) Two layers of wax paper can't stand off much voltage! Also note that the gravity effect appears within a second of running the machine, if I understand the message. Maybe the voltage is way lower than 10KV. The original paper does mention "strong batteries" rather than electrostatics. Maybe he knew what he was talking about. Also note that the plans say that aluminum doesn't work. What if the author is right?! Then, everyone who uses aluminum will fail (and perhaps then assume that the plans are a hoax.) The author is not familiar with the "Heathkit ego-mods" problem. If people think this: "he can't mean that aluminum is REALLY the wrong material, so I'll use it anyway", then the author was wrong to say that aluminum does not work. He should have explained in detail that aluminum has been extensively tested and is PROVEN never to work (if in fact that is the case. Maybe aluminum does work, but why take the chance? Many days of labor, leading to failure, could sour you on the whole project.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 07:35:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA04548; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:34:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:34:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:34:40 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: fake discoveries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ohZCY.0.w61.Jiusu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14323 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new discoveries, we must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This can't be helped. One of the reasons for the current state of contemporary science is that mainstream researchers have a terrible fear of being shown to be foolish. A "skeptic" will rarely fall for a hoax... but will ignore all reports of free energy, antigravity, transmutation etc. If we take these reports seriously, then we need to have a thick skin, and laugh at ourselves, and assume that we'll be victims of hoaxes again and again. Type-one error: if our goal is to reject all falsehood, then we invariably will reject many truths as well (DISBELIEVER) Type-two error: if our goal is to discover all truths, then we invariably will accept many falsehoods as well (BELIEVER) I'm a "believer" rather than a "disbeliever", which makes me an easy mark for any hoax. But also, it spoils the hoaxer's fun! There's no point in pulling a fast one on a believer, especially if that believer is unashamed of being fooled, and also never parts with money under any circumstances. The REAL challenge is to do the equivalent of convincing "The Amazing Randi" that you have true psychic powers. And then convincing him to part with some of that prize money he's accumulated! I suggest that several of us try building small segments of the gravity capacitor, even though the chance is not small that we will fail. The alternative is to take the pseudoskeptic path, nurse wounds over the Greg Watson episode, maintain hypersensitivity to having our egos punctured... and have no fun at all! :) PS, if the world REALLY IS filled with weird stuff, then a believer will have opportunity to play with it all, while a disbeliever will live in a world filled with hoaxers who wish to embarass him. Yet the vast numbers of hoaxers will be an illusion, and the weird things will be real! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 09:27:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA11531; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:26:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:26:49 -0800 Message-ID: <000801bf95b7$851eb840$b56ad9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: Subject: Adams Test motor Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:36:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF9585.23FDFC60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"n6CgS.0.-p2.OLwsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14324 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF9585.23FDFC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, I have just finished testing the Adams test motor from John = Bendini web site that I built. I'm not versed in transister schematics, = but I understand what is going on electricly in this motor. I used a 7" new grinding disk for the rotor = with (2 ) 1" round magnets placed 180 degrees apart. I built the (2) = coils to his spects. I then mounted all of this in a crude wooden frame = I built. I used a 3/4" wide by 2" arcoss plastic washer and installed it = on the end of the shaft to use for timing the pulses.I ganged (2) SP DT = micro switches and mounted them over the plastic washer. I then drilled = 2 small holes 180 degrees apart and installed a rounded head screw in = each hole. The plastic washer turns with the shaft and the head of the = screws activate the switches. The first switch is wired to send a pulse = to the coils and the second switch is open from the coil to the battery. = When the coils are off the second switch is closed so that emf can be = sent back through diodes to the battery. When the coils are sharply cut = off, the polarity in the coils changes, so this has to be wired accordingly. After playing with the timing and setting rotor magnet gap = at 1/8 inch, it runs at about 2000 RPM. I hooked up a scope and found I = was not getting steady spikes back to the battery. I found that the ganged switches were the = problem. I replaced them with a DP DT switch and the spikes are steady now. = Folks.. this is for real! No voltage drop in 1 hour running. Voltage = varys from 12.60 to 12.80 continously. I seen surges as high as 13.90 = volts. I fact I was concerned if the battery could take the surges. I = recomend using a gel cel battery, mine is a 7.0 amp/hr. Being excited, I = decided to try to run the motor of off a precharged 1 farad 25 volt cap. It dont work..the cap runs down rather quickly. So there = has to be something about the battery taking the spikes that keep it = charged. My thanks to John Bendini and Mr. Adams for this design. Anyone = should be able to build this motor with scavanged parts found here and = there. I highly recomend people start building this motor. Regards, = Robert H. Calloway =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF9585.23FDFC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello All,  I have just finished = testing the=20 Adams test motor from John Bendini  web site that I built. I'm not = versed=20 in transister schematics, but I understand what is going on
electricly in this motor. I used a 7" = new grinding=20 disk for the rotor with (2 ) 1" round magnets placed 180 degrees = apart. I=20 built the (2) coils to his spects. I then mounted all of this in a crude = wooden=20 frame I built. I used a 3/4" wide by 2" arcoss plastic washer and = installed it=20 on the end of the shaft to use for timing the pulses.I ganged (2) SP DT = micro=20 switches and mounted them over the plastic washer. I then drilled 2 = small holes=20 180 degrees apart and installed a rounded head screw in each hole. = The=20 plastic washer turns with the shaft and the head of the screws activate = the=20 switches. The first switch is wired to send a pulse to the coils = and=20 the second switch is open from the coil to the battery. When the = coils are=20 off the second switch is closed so that emf can be sent back through = diodes to=20 the battery. When the coils are sharply cut off, the polarity in = the coils=20 changes, so this has to be wired
accordingly. After playing with = the timing and=20 setting rotor magnet gap at 1/8 inch, it runs at about 2000 RPM. I = hooked up a=20 scope and found I was not getting steady
spikes back to the battery. I = found that the=20 ganged switches were the problem.
I replaced them with a DP DT switch and = the spikes=20 are steady now. Folks.. this is for real! No voltage drop in 1 hour = running.=20 Voltage varys from 12.60 to 12.80 continously. I seen surges as high as = 13.90=20 volts. I fact I was concerned if the battery could take the surges. = I=20 recomend using a gel cel battery, mine is a 7.0 amp/hr. Being = excited, I=20 decided to try to run the motor of off a precharged 1 = farad
25 volt cap. It dont work..the cap runs = down rather=20 quickly. So there has to be something about the battery taking the = spikes that=20 keep it charged. My thanks to John Bendini and Mr. Adams for this = design.=20 Anyone should be able to build this motor with scavanged parts found = here and=20 there. I highly recomend people start building this motor.  = Regards, Robert=20 H. Calloway     
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF9585.23FDFC60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 09:41:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16623; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:40:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:40:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:40:37 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Estimate of capacitance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"y-8jK2.0.U34.TYwsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14325 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I made one 2-plate capacitor segment glued up with rubber cement rather than clamped between plates. Measured on a an Emco DVM it reads 1400pF. A stack of 390 plates therefore is approx 0.5uF capacitance (but might be much different depending on how much air could be excluded from the stack.) At the typical 10uA charging current of a VandeGraaff, a one second current will raise the voltage to 20 volts. If the leakage through the dielectric was 100meg, (a total guess!), then a 10uA current would eventually raise the voltage to 1000V and store .25 joules, but it would take a couple of minutes of continuous charging to do this. To make the capacitor less dangerous, only charge it for a brief moment, just until the "thrust" becomes significant. If the internal leakage resistance was far greater than 100meg, the capacitor voltage could rise far above 1000V, and dielectric breakdown would be certain but it would take a couple of minutes before the capacitor shorted out internally. A suggested experiment: get rid of the VDG machine. Instead use a 600-volt diode rectifier, and charge the gravity-capacitor from the 220V AC mains. (Maybe put a 15-watt light bulb in series with the AC line so the initial current impulse doesn't fry the diode. ) This will give a 300V DC voltage to the capacitor. Measure the thrust. Note that this 300V voltage MIGHT be higher than the voltage provided by the VDG machine, so the thrust MIGHT be far higher than you've seen before. If it suddenly tries to lift 500KG instead of 5KG, it will fly through the ceiling and the roof! If the "sickness effect" becomes far larger, then you want to be far away when you apply the 300V power. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 10:59:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10871; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:59:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:59:02 -0800 Message-ID: <38DBBB08.1582@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:59:20 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <38DB9BD8.B65587F7@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T2jA02.0.lf2.rhxsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14326 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > I checked it out. 190 nm is in the UVC band and it is that band that is > absorbed by regular oxygen (O2) and causes the formation of ozone (O3). > O3 will absorb ultra violet in the UVB band to break down to O2. Only O3 > will absorb ultra violet in the UVB band. What is "UVC" as compared to "UVB?" > > As far as I can tell, UVC is so completely absorbed by O2 that almost none > reaches the Earth's surface. If it did, O3 would form 'spontaneously' on the > surface more often than it does. It reaches us by this mechanism, http://www.nuenergy.org/images/gif/cosmo.gif The radiant energy circuit absorbs ions. When the ions recombine UV is generated, reacts with oxygen transforming it into ozone. The power tubes then utilizes the energy by converting this ozone into usable electrical current. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 11:04:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12217; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:03:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:03:59 -0800 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: <46.318d64e.260d15f1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:03:13 EST Subject: Re: Adams Test motor To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"P4Oiq3.0.n-2.Umxsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14327 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Great news! Cap versus battery. There is a theory that the 'free' energy is captured by the oscillation of the ions in a lead acid battery. It is also known that pulse charging/discharging can restore the amp-hour capacity of an older battery. What type of battery are you using? How long does the battery last? Can you start with a semi-discharged battery and have the 'motor' charge the battery? Trevor From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 11:14:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16922; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:13:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:13:38 -0800 Message-ID: <38DBBE76.99E@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:13:58 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> <38DA25B6.8DE786D@microtec.net > <38DAEADC.7DEC@cyberportal.net> <38DB988A.1256A5FC@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wHeDJ.0.E84.Yvxsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14328 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > > I have gone beyond T. H. Morays original work in many areas. > > My fuel cell design can run on hydrogen assisted by the pumped > > ions from the circuit, or it can use radioactive material to > > replace the electronic ion pump. Without the hydrogen the cell > > will put out energy for a long time. T. H. Moray's power tubes > > lasted for a few months. With the hydrogen this can be extended > > indefinately. > > It was always my view that the 'without the hydrogen' cell is like a > zinc-carbon, alkali or Ni-Cad cell with radient circult while the 'with > the hydrogen' is like a fuel with the radient circult. The first one runs > until the chemicals are exausted while the other will run continuously > because the fuel is being refreshed. Sort of... but it is more like an aluminum/air cell... metal/ozone to be more to the point. This to my knowledge has never been done. The method that I have patented is an electronic super high-density cell that can by restored with hydrogen. It does not function like conventional fuel cells now in use. > > Could the Moray power tubes be considered as cells but, instead of a > solid or liquid electrolyte, it has a gas plasma one. The plasma in air, > of course, has ozone etc. Yes... however, very high density, even more so than aluminum/air cells. This is why they eventually died! However, by turning then into fuel cells a little hydrogen will go a very long way and this solves the problem. This is not completely "free energy" bit it sure does come close. Add radioactive material to the system and you can say that the system is now generating "free energy." What I plan to market is my fuel cell design. This should make alot of people happy for a long time. Even so... my heart is really in the "free energy" aspect of my research. Read the "Other reference" sited in my patent and you will begin to see a clearer picture of my present path. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 11:21:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA19020; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:21:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:21:15 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01bf95c7$83f0f360$726ad9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: References: <46.318d64e.260d15f1@aol.com> Subject: Re: Adams Test motor Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:31:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"J3Tsl.0.5f4.g0ysu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14329 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 1:03 PM Subject: Re: Adams Test motor > Great news! > Cap versus battery. There is a theory that the 'free' energy is captured by > the oscillation of the ions in a lead acid battery. It is also known that > pulse charging/discharging can restore the amp-hour capacity of an older > battery. > What type of battery are you using? A Yuasa sealed rechargeable Lead-Acid Battery NP7-12 12V 7.0Ah > How long does the battery last? Its still going and going! Voltage is staying at 12.60 to 12.80. I have 3 hours run time on it now. > Can you start with a semi-discharged battery and have the 'motor' charge the > battery? Dont know havent tried that yet, still running the motor and monitoring voltage. But I will soon, and let you know. > Trevor > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 11:54:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30905; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:53:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:53:10 -0800 Message-ID: <38DBC7AE.BB3@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:53:18 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Some interesting news clips from yesteryear Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5aoIG3.0.nY7.bUysu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14330 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.nuenergy.org/images/jpg/newsclip.jpg -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 12:35:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11498; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:34:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:34:01 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:33:22 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA11307 Resent-Message-ID: <"NnxRQ.0.Zp2.u4zsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14331 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 05:46:10 -0800 (PST), William Beaty wrote: [snip] >>Has anyone looking into the properties of Tin? >>Tin's crystaline structure is tetragonal... According to the info I have, this is between 291 K and the melting point. Below 291 K (17.85 ºC, 64.13 ºF) it is diamond cubic. So it could be critically important just what temp. the experiment is carried out at. > >Thank you for the information, I havent "complete" my studie on materials >for use for the capacitor yet. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 12:50:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02433; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:48:08 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:48:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000801bf95d1$6a06d780$889a10cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:42:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"hQKaG2.0.kb.2Izsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14332 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill, can you find out the temperature and time of day/year that this person performed this experiment? Gravity (ether?) of other bodies may have an influence on the effect. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 3:33 PM Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) > On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 05:46:10 -0800 (PST), William Beaty wrote: > [snip] > >>Has anyone looking into the properties of Tin? > >>Tin's crystaline structure is tetragonal... > > According to the info I have, this is between 291 K and the melting point. > Below 291 K (17.85 ºC, 64.13 ºF) it is diamond cubic. So it could be > critically important just what temp. the experiment is carried out at. > > > > >Thank you for the information, I havent "complete" my studie on materials > >for use for the capacitor yet. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 13:04:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23055; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:03:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:03:15 -0800 Message-ID: <38DBA830.3CA16B73@sinectis.com.ar> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:38:59 -0300 From: Juan de la Cruz Barrios X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"onybO1.0.0e5.HWzsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14333 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, Any of you remember the thin laminates of a "extrange metal", light like the paper yet very strong found by the witness of the Roswell accident ? Juan afected by another "x files" syndrome ;-) William Beaty escribió: > Also note that the plans say that aluminum doesn't work. What if the > author is right?! Then, everyone who uses aluminum will fail (and perhaps > then assume that the plans are a hoax.) The author is not familiar with > the "Heathkit ego-mods" problem. If people think this: "he can't mean > that aluminum is REALLY the wrong material, so I'll use it anyway", then > the author was wrong to say that aluminum does not work. He should have > explained in detail that aluminum has been extensively tested and is > PROVEN never to work (if in fact that is the case. Maybe aluminum does > work, but why take the chance? Many days of labor, leading to failure, > could sour you on the whole project.) > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 13:11:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26909; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:10:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:10:25 -0800 Message-ID: <38DBD9D3.7A99@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:10:43 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> <38DA25B6.8DE786D@microtec.net > <38DAEADC.7DEC@cyberportal.net> <38DB988A.1256A5FC@globalcrossing.com> <38DBBE76.99E@cyberportal.net> <38DBC585.B46BDB2C@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fYnwq2.0.Fa6.1dzsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14334 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > > Read the "Other reference" sited in my patent and you will begin to see > > a clearer picture of my present path. > > > > The first reference is to hand. Is the second one still in print or otherwise > available? http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/actinia.pdf -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 13:14:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28493; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:12:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:12:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000324161451.018d4760@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:14:51 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? In-Reply-To: <38DA9C51.2C8FC4F1@microtec.net> References: <20000323.091634.-399029.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vBLwU3.0.6z6.nezsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14335 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:36 PM 03/23/00 -0500, you wrote: >But the total direction of the electrical field cancels because negative plates are >sandwiched between positive plates and vice-versa. so how come this capacitor can >produce a force in one direction ? Perhaps alternating the tin with organic material is accumulating "something" other than just positive and negative charges. The charges may cancel, but obviously, something else does not. Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 13:17:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29912; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:17:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:17:07 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Test motor Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:16:29 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <46.318d64e.260d15f1@aol.com> <000f01bf95c7$83f0f360$726ad9d0@58hde> In-Reply-To: <000f01bf95c7$83f0f360$726ad9d0@58hde> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA29888 Resent-Message-ID: <"obH0e.0.HJ7.Ijzsu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14336 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:31:12 -0600, Robert wrote: [snip] > How long does the battery last? >Its still going and going! Voltage is staying at 12.60 to 12.80. I have 3 >hours run >time on it now. > >> Can you start with a semi-discharged battery and have the 'motor' charge >the >> battery? >Dont know havent tried that yet, still running the motor and monitoring >voltage. >But I will soon, and let you know. >> Trevor >> If you know how much current the motor is drawing, you should be able to make a rough estimate of the time it should last. Then let it run 10 times as long as that without interruption, then report back. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 13:29:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08711; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:28:18 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:28:18 -0800 (PST) From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:27:44 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38dddd6c.7825362@mail.midiowa.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id NAA08609 Resent-Message-ID: <"9SdkD3.0.y72.itzsu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14337 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin, On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:33:22 +1100, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 05:46:10 -0800 (PST), William Beaty wrote: >[snip] >>>Has anyone looking into the properties of Tin? >>>Tin's crystaline structure is tetragonal... > >According to the info I have, this is between 291 K and the melting point. >Below 291 K (17.85 ºC, 64.13 ºF) it is diamond cubic. So it could be >critically important just what temp. the experiment is carried out at. Huh? Are you saying that the hunk of tin I have sitting on my table will change it's structure if I lower it below 17.85 C? -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 13:44:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05540; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:44:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:44:06 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Test motor Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:44:01 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38dfe15a.8831388@mail.midiowa.net> References: <000801bf95b7$851eb840$b56ad9d0@58hde> In-Reply-To: <000801bf95b7$851eb840$b56ad9d0@58hde> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA05489 Resent-Message-ID: <"WX6ST.0.MM1.c6-su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14338 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robert, On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:36:05 -0600, "Robert" wrote: >Hello All, I have just finished testing the Adams test motor >from John Bendini web site that I built. I'm not versed in >transister schematics, but I understand what is going on >electricly in this motor. Could you provide the URL of the web site, please. I can't seem to find it. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 13:53:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08557; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:52:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:52:58 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:52:22 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38dddd6c.7825362@mail.midiowa.net> In-Reply-To: <38dddd6c.7825362@mail.midiowa.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA08532 Resent-Message-ID: <"k_DeB.0.c52.vE-su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14339 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:27:44 GMT, Dean T. Miller wrote: [snip] >>According to the info I have, this is between 291 K and the melting point. >>Below 291 K (17.85 ºC, 64.13 ºF) it is diamond cubic. So it could be >>critically important just what temp. the experiment is carried out at. > >Huh? Are you saying that the hunk of tin I have sitting on my table >will change it's structure if I lower it below 17.85 C? According to my info yes. This may be apparent as a change in reflectivity. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 14:00:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10661; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:59:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:59:46 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:47:34 -0500 Subject: Shipment of Radioactive Materials Message-ID: <20000324.164744.-419461.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"Hzbqv3.0.Uc2.IL-su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14340 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mr. Perreault a while ago mentioned that his device employs radioactive material and that at a certain point it becomes impossible to legally ship the device (or fuel or whatever has the radioactivity). Although I don't know all the rules and regulations, I know there is at least one way around this restriction. Namely, radioactive material is classified as level I, II, or III based on its radioactivity at the container surface and 1 meter from the surface. So put the device in a larger box and the inverse square law will take care of the problem. Sounds fishy, but the radiopharmaceutical company I work for has had this procedure run by the legal department and uses it when its shipments exceed level III standards. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- A sign on a Tennessee highway: "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 14:30:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22219; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:29:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:29:44 -0800 Message-ID: <000901bf95e1$d1743f60$876ad9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: , References: <000801bf95b7$851eb840$b56ad9d0@58hde> <38dfe15a.8831388@mail.midiowa.net> Subject: Re: Adams Test motor Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:38:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"dCUzH.0.1R5.Nn-su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14341 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The website is http//www.nidlink.com/~john1/idea.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean T. Miller To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 3:44 PM Subject: Re: Adams Test motor > Hi Robert, > > On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:36:05 -0600, "Robert" wrote: > > >Hello All, I have just finished testing the Adams test motor > >from John Bendini web site that I built. I'm not versed in > >transister schematics, but I understand what is going on > >electricly in this motor. > > Could you provide the URL of the web site, please. I can't seem to > find it. > > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 14:44:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26799; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:43:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:43:35 -0800 Message-ID: <001101bf95e2$05ec8f40$f2d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000324.164744.-419461.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Subject: Re: Shipment of Radioactive Materials Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:40:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"BH6NJ3.0.WY6.M--su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14342 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm sorry, what I'm saying doesn't have much relevence. But for some reason I thought this message was really funney. I'm proud to be part of this list. ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 4:47 PM Subject: Shipment of Radioactive Materials > Mr. Perreault a while ago mentioned that his device employs radioactive > material and that at a certain point it becomes impossible to legally > ship the device (or fuel or whatever has the radioactivity). Although I > don't know all the rules and regulations, I know there is at least one > way around this restriction. Namely, radioactive material is classified > as level I, II, or III based on its radioactivity at the container > surface and 1 meter from the surface. So put the device in a larger box > and the inverse square law will take care of the problem. Sounds fishy, > but the radiopharmaceutical company I work for has had this procedure run > by the legal department and uses it when its shipments exceed level III > standards. > > -Tom Grimes > > mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com > ----------------------------------------- > A sign on a Tennessee highway: > "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 14:52:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29535; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:50:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:50:57 -0800 Message-ID: <003301bf95e3$15419e80$f2d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Chemicals Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:48:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BF95B9.2B683040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"7ef6O2.0.KD7.E5_su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14343 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BF95B9.2B683040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What are some good chemical suppliers on the internet? The best I = could find was www.baddley.com . And to stay somewhat on topic, has = anyone had any ideas for an improved solar cell. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BF95B9.2B683040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    What are some good = chemical=20 suppliers on the internet? The best I could find was www.baddley.com . And to stay = somewhat on=20 topic, has anyone had any ideas for an improved solar=20 cell.
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BF95B9.2B683040-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 15:01:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA00837; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:00:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:00:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:00:32 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: "Dean T. Miller" cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) In-Reply-To: <38dddd6c.7825362@mail.midiowa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA00811 Resent-Message-ID: <"_tUOA2.0.yC.QE_su"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14344 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Dean T. Miller wrote: > >According to the info I have, this is between 291 K and the melting point. > >Below 291 K (17.85 ºC, 64.13 ºF) it is diamond cubic. So it could be > >critically important just what temp. the experiment is carried out at. > > Huh? Are you saying that the hunk of tin I have sitting on my table > will change it's structure if I lower it below 17.85 C? Thats how those nickel/tin shape memory alloys work (Nitinol) phase change usually either eats or emits heat, so if you slowly cooled a hunk of tin, there might be a glitch in its temperature as it passes the temperature threshold. Maybe unbeknownst to everyone, there is some sort of electro/grav/thermal interaction at phase change points, and tin just happens to be close enough to "room temperature" that someone would stumble across it accidentally. Aren't some free-energy claims based upon the behavior of magnetic materials near their curie temperature? It's another phase-change threshold, where nonlinear weirdness and self-organized patterns arise. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 15:54:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA20008; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:53:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:53:51 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:47:29 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200003242347.SAA19309@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) & UFOs Resent-Message-ID: <"mG1rB1.0.Qu4.F00tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14345 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It's interesting that the anonymous experimenter reports "bad feelings and nightmares" from using this device. It should be noted that close and even not-so-close encounters with UFOs are well- known to provoke psychological effects along these lines. One interesting effect I've seen reported more than once is that the experiencer becomes possessed with the idea that they are to now come forth with some sort of revolutionary technology; yet the specific details never become quite clear to the person, driven as they may have become. Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 16:13:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA25462; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:12:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:12:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:09:29 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200003250009.TAA04311@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Resent-Message-ID: <"OwSp03.0.lD6.1I0tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14346 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Per tin-foil, Thomas Register lists 33 companies offering, with several having web presence. You can join TR for free at: www.thomasregister.com and this search line for 'tin foil' may work: http://www5.thomasregister.com/ss/.1284155499/TPdcolist.cgi?&index=Product&search=tin+foil&pn=0048042 Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 16:29:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30657; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:28:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:28:53 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:29:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: fake discoveries Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"ycWd5.0.vU7.4X0tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14347 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new discoveries, we >must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This can't be >helped. Wrong. It can be helped. As long as we insist on doing science in an unscientific manner then, of course, it can't be helped. But there is a cure for being hoaxed. >One of the reasons for the current state of contemporary science is that >mainstream researchers have a terrible fear of being shown to be foolish. A completely justified fear since I think that in certain research areas there is a heavy population of fools. They know who they are and they live in fear of being exposed. >A "skeptic" will rarely fall for a hoax... but will ignore all reports of >free energy, antigravity, transmutation etc. If we take these reports >seriously, then we need to have a thick skin, and laugh at ourselves, and >assume that we'll be victims of hoaxes again and again. But there's no end to the possible number of hoaxes. And most of mainstream thought on a variety of subjects is in error and therefore no different than a large scale hoax that even took in the hoaxer. > Type-one error: if our goal is to reject all falsehood, then we > invariably will reject many truths as well (DISBELIEVER) Irrational. You are declaring in advance that there is no way to discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). You may not have found a way but you are being presumptuous in supposing that either there is no way or that no one has found it. > Type-two error: if our goal is to discover all truths, then we > invariably will accept many falsehoods as well (BELIEVER) Wrong again. You are merely supposing that believing all things means that one lacks the discriminatory quality which I say people can obtain but won't make the effort to obtain. >I'm a "believer" rather than a "disbeliever", which makes me an easy mark >for any hoax. But also, it spoils the hoaxer's fun! There's no point >in pulling a fast one on a believer, especially if that believer is >unashamed of being fooled, and also never parts with money under any >circumstances. Then he's never really a believer but rather a skeptic trying to fake his way through life in the guise of one who is hopeful. When it comes right down to it money is the measure of whether or not someone believes because money is tangible and you can rub it between your fingers and buy groceries with it and cars and tools and pay your rent with it. When some one steps up to the plate and ponies up real cash then he's really a believer. He has a quantity of a quality that the rest of your lack and that is 'faith'. The rest of you can say you believe but you don't demonstrate your belief and hence your words fall to the ground empty and are nothing. Words have a tremendous power but when people spend time destroying the power of their own words then they get the reward they deserve which is a lack of faith. >The REAL challenge is to do the equivalent of convincing >"The Amazing Randi" that you have true psychic powers. And then >convincing him to part with some of that prize money he's accumulated! There's no way to beat some people's offers because they cannot or will not precisely define what constitutes 'proof' or 'evidence' for them. The 'latch point' where they believe is arbitrary and if some of their own cash is on the line then they never have to reach the latch point even if they secretly believe in their own heart. They can still refrain from issuing the prize. 'Proof' and 'evidence' are the same substance and the only thing that separates them is the magnitude. Both 'proof' and 'evidence' are the subjective interpretation of data, not the data itself. >I suggest that several of us try building small segments of the gravity >capacitor, even though the chance is not small that we will fail. The >alternative is to take the pseudoskeptic path, nurse wounds over the Greg >Watson episode, maintain hypersensitivity to having our egos punctured... One ought to be able to show with some level of logic why the gravity capacitor ought to work rather than mere insistence that it does. If you haven't precisely identified the nature of gravity in the first place then to suppose that you have built a thing that somehow reduces it seems a little presumptuous and even a bit ridiculous. >and have no fun at all! :) > >PS, if the world REALLY IS filled with weird stuff, then a believer will >have opportunity to play with it all, while a disbeliever will live in a >world filled with hoaxers who wish to embarass him. Yet the vast numbers >of hoaxers will be an illusion, and the weird things will be real! The only way you can be embarrassed is to have your ignorance exposed. And if you are an upright person in the first place then there is no shame in that. Ignorance is not a crime and it is curable with the truth. Compound ignorance, on the other hand, is when you don't know that you don't know. The sad part is that people who are afflicted with compound ignorance may not be curable because in their insistence that they know they prevent the truth from being allowed entrance into their inner heart. When you invest in some new unproven technology you are exercising faith. When you hold back and decide not to invest unless you know you are going to come out on top then you deserve very little return on your money. But more horrible thing than having your ignorance exposed is having your lack of faith exposed. Then your utter powerlessness is exposed. Amble over to http://www.singtech.com and see something interesting. Regards, -- Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 17:54:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA31132; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:54:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:54:27 -0800 Message-ID: <005a01bf95fd$0b92d560$74641ece@computer> From: "Garry & Denise Whitman" To: Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:54:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Vsm4i3.0.Hc7.In1tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14348 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: C Cagle; Do you have a product on the market? Or, are you too selling blue sky? -----Original Message----- From: C. Cagle To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 6:32 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries >>Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new discoveries, we >>must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This can't be >>helped. > >Wrong. It can be helped. As long as we insist on doing science in >an unscientific manner then, of course, it can't be helped. But >there is a cure for being hoaxed. > >>One of the reasons for the current state of contemporary science is that >>mainstream researchers have a terrible fear of being shown to be foolish. > >A completely justified fear since I think that in certain research >areas there is a heavy population of fools. They know who they are >and they live in fear of being exposed. > >>A "skeptic" will rarely fall for a hoax... but will ignore all reports of >>free energy, antigravity, transmutation etc. If we take these reports >>seriously, then we need to have a thick skin, and laugh at ourselves, and >>assume that we'll be victims of hoaxes again and again. > >But there's no end to the possible number of hoaxes. And most of >mainstream thought on a variety of subjects is in error and therefore >no different than a large scale hoax that even took in the hoaxer. > > >> Type-one error: if our goal is to reject all falsehood, then we >> invariably will reject many truths as well (DISBELIEVER) > >Irrational. You are declaring in advance that there is no way to >discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). You may not have found a >way but you are being presumptuous in supposing that either there is >no way or that no one has found it. > >> Type-two error: if our goal is to discover all truths, then we >> invariably will accept many falsehoods as well (BELIEVER) > >Wrong again. You are merely supposing that believing all things >means that one lacks the discriminatory quality which I say people >can obtain but won't make the effort to obtain. > > >>I'm a "believer" rather than a "disbeliever", which makes me an easy mark >>for any hoax. But also, it spoils the hoaxer's fun! There's no point >>in pulling a fast one on a believer, especially if that believer is >>unashamed of being fooled, and also never parts with money under any >>circumstances. > >Then he's never really a believer but rather a skeptic trying to fake >his way through life in the guise of one who is hopeful. When it >comes right down to it money is the measure of whether or not someone >believes because money is tangible and you can rub it between your >fingers and buy groceries with it and cars and tools and pay your >rent with it. When some one steps up to the plate and ponies up real >cash then he's really a believer. He has a quantity of a quality >that the rest of your lack and that is 'faith'. The rest of you can >say you believe but you don't demonstrate your belief and hence your >words fall to the ground empty and are nothing. Words have a >tremendous power but when people spend time destroying the power of >their own words then they get the reward they deserve which is a lack >of faith. > >>The REAL challenge is to do the equivalent of convincing >>"The Amazing Randi" that you have true psychic powers. And then >>convincing him to part with some of that prize money he's accumulated! > >There's no way to beat some people's offers because they cannot or >will not precisely define what constitutes 'proof' or 'evidence' for >them. The 'latch point' where they believe is arbitrary and if some >of their own cash is on the line then they never have to reach the >latch point even if they secretly believe in their own heart. They >can still refrain from issuing the prize. 'Proof' and 'evidence' >are the same substance and the only thing that separates them is the >magnitude. Both 'proof' and 'evidence' are the subjective >interpretation of data, not the data itself. > >>I suggest that several of us try building small segments of the gravity >>capacitor, even though the chance is not small that we will fail. The >>alternative is to take the pseudoskeptic path, nurse wounds over the Greg >>Watson episode, maintain hypersensitivity to having our egos punctured... > >One ought to be able to show with some level of logic why the gravity >capacitor ought to work rather than mere insistence that it does. >If you haven't precisely identified the nature of gravity in the >first place then to suppose that you have built a thing that somehow >reduces it seems a little presumptuous and even a bit ridiculous. > > >>and have no fun at all! :) >> >>PS, if the world REALLY IS filled with weird stuff, then a believer will >>have opportunity to play with it all, while a disbeliever will live in a >>world filled with hoaxers who wish to embarass him. Yet the vast numbers >>of hoaxers will be an illusion, and the weird things will be real! > >The only way you can be embarrassed is to have your ignorance >exposed. And if you are an upright person in the first place then >there is no shame in that. Ignorance is not a crime and it is >curable with the truth. Compound ignorance, on the other hand, is >when you don't know that you don't know. The sad part is that people >who are afflicted with compound ignorance may not be curable because >in their insistence that they know they prevent the truth from being >allowed entrance into their inner heart. When you invest in some >new unproven technology you are exercising faith. When you hold back >and decide not to invest unless you know you are going to come out on >top then you deserve very little return on your money. But more >horrible thing than having your ignorance exposed is having your lack >of faith exposed. Then your utter powerlessness is exposed. > > Amble over to http://www.singtech.com and see something interesting. > >Regards, > >-- >Charles Cagle, CEO >Singularity Technologies, Inc. >1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. >Salem, OR 97304 >503-362-7781 >singtech@telestream.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 17:57:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA32040; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:57:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:57:38 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01bf95fd$2bb65f60$d9d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:55:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"-IeAJ1.0.Xq7.Hq1tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14349 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Cagle To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 6:29 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > >Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new discoveries, we > >must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This can't be > >helped. > > Wrong. It can be helped. As long as we insist on doing science in > an unscientific manner then, of course, it can't be helped. But > there is a cure for being hoaxed. But we (the people of Earth) have such a primitive understanding of science. How can we possiblely know if we are going about it in the right way if we dont understand it? > > >One of the reasons for the current state of contemporary science is that > >mainstream researchers have a terrible fear of being shown to be foolish. > > A completely justified fear since I think that in certain research > areas there is a heavy population of fools. They know who they are > and they live in fear of being exposed. I believe your interpretation of "fool" is different from Mr. Beaty's. There is a difference between a fool and a person who fears being accused of being a fool. > > >A "skeptic" will rarely fall for a hoax... but will ignore all reports of > >free energy, antigravity, transmutation etc. If we take these reports > >seriously, then we need to have a thick skin, and laugh at ourselves, and > >assume that we'll be victims of hoaxes again and again. > > But there's no end to the possible number of hoaxes. And most of > mainstream thought on a variety of subjects is in error and therefore > no different than a large scale hoax that even took in the hoaxer. I agree, thats why things can't be approached in a "scientific" manner (technicly they can, we just currently don't know how). > > > > Type-one error: if our goal is to reject all falsehood, then we > > invariably will reject many truths as well (DISBELIEVER) > > Irrational. You are declaring in advance that there is no way to > discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). You may not have found a > way but you are being presumptuous in supposing that either there is > no way or that no one has found it. If the universe is logical, there is a way. But we don't know if it is. Regardless, we (the people of Earth) don't currently know how to discern between the two. At least we don't know that we do (did you get that). > > > Type-two error: if our goal is to discover all truths, then we > > invariably will accept many falsehoods as well (BELIEVER) > > Wrong again. You are merely supposing that believing all things > means that one lacks the discriminatory quality which I say people > can obtain but won't make the effort to obtain. I agree with the first part. But I believe that even if one made the effort to obtain that discriminitory quality, it certainly doesn't mean he/she will get it. And if one did get it, how would they know? > > > >I'm a "believer" rather than a "disbeliever", which makes me an easy mark > >for any hoax. But also, it spoils the hoaxer's fun! There's no point > >in pulling a fast one on a believer, especially if that believer is > >unashamed of being fooled, and also never parts with money under any > >circumstances. > > Then he's never really a believer but rather a skeptic trying to fake > his way through life in the guise of one who is hopeful. When it > comes right down to it money is the measure of whether or not someone > believes because money is tangible and you can rub it between your > fingers and buy groceries with it and cars and tools and pay your > rent with it. When some one steps up to the plate and ponies up real > cash then he's really a believer. He has a quantity of a quality > that the rest of your lack and that is 'faith'. The rest of you can > say you believe but you don't demonstrate your belief and hence your > words fall to the ground empty and are nothing. Words have a > tremendous power but when people spend time destroying the power of > their own words then they get the reward they deserve which is a lack > of faith. One who is logical shouldn't be blinded by faith, and faith is a gamble, so there is ALWAYS a chance of being blinded. > >The REAL challenge is to do the equivalent of convincing > >"The Amazing Randi" that you have true psychic powers. And then > >convincing him to part with some of that prize money he's accumulated! > > There's no way to beat some people's offers because they cannot or > will not precisely define what constitutes 'proof' or 'evidence' for > them. The 'latch point' where they believe is arbitrary and if some > of their own cash is on the line then they never have to reach the > latch point even if they secretly believe in their own heart. They > can still refrain from issuing the prize. 'Proof' and 'evidence' > are the same substance and the only thing that separates them is the > magnitude. Both 'proof' and 'evidence' are the subjective > interpretation of data, not the data itself. But "proof" equals certainty. There is no such thing as proof with our (the people of Earth) primitive understanding of...everything... > > >I suggest that several of us try building small segments of the gravity > >capacitor, even though the chance is not small that we will fail. The > >alternative is to take the pseudoskeptic path, nurse wounds over the Greg > >Watson episode, maintain hypersensitivity to having our egos punctured... > > One ought to be able to show with some level of logic why the gravity > capacitor ought to work rather than mere insistence that it does. > If you haven't precisely identified the nature of gravity in the > first place then to suppose that you have built a thing that somehow > reduces it seems a little presumptuous and even a bit ridiculous. Don't get me started on understanding things. Just because you think you understand somthing, just because you have supposed "proof", doesn't mean your right...hey, there might not even be a "right" in this world... > > >and have no fun at all! :) > > > >PS, if the world REALLY IS filled with weird stuff, then a believer will > >have opportunity to play with it all, while a disbeliever will live in a > >world filled with hoaxers who wish to embarass him. Yet the vast numbers > >of hoaxers will be an illusion, and the weird things will be real! > > The only way you can be embarrassed is to have your ignorance > exposed. And if you are an upright person in the first place then > there is no shame in that. Ignorance is not a crime and it is > curable with the truth. Compound ignorance, on the other hand, is > when you don't know that you don't know. What about antiknowledge, when what you "know" is incorrect. The sad part is that people > who are afflicted with compound ignorance may not be curable because > in their insistence that they know they prevent the truth from being > allowed entrance into their inner heart. When you invest in some > new unproven technology you are exercising faith. When you hold back > and decide not to invest unless you know you are going to come out on > top then you deserve very little return on your money. But more > horrible thing than having your ignorance exposed is having your lack > of faith exposed. Then your utter powerlessness is exposed. I want you to know that I don't agree with everything Mr. Beaty said either. have a nice day. ;-) > > Amble over to http://www.singtech.com and see something interesting. > > Regards, > > -- > Charles Cagle, CEO > Singularity Technologies, Inc. > 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. > Salem, OR 97304 > 503-362-7781 > singtech@telestream.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 18:21:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04789; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:20:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:20:57 -0800 Message-ID: <38DC2283.9EFC9023@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:20:52 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? References: <38DBA830.3CA16B73@sinectis.com.ar> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Cv0pb3.0.kA1.9A2tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14350 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Juan de la Cruz Barrios wrote: > Hi all, > > Any of you remember the thin laminates of a "extrange metal", light like the > paper > yet very strong found by the witness of the Roswell accident ? > > Juan afected by another "x files" syndrome ;-) I was thinking about the magnesium and bismuth composite materials that Art Bell had done a show about sometime last year...bimetallic reactions are a well-documented part of some pretty basic technology..perhaps there are other things that it can do ? -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 18:33:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA09643; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:32:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:32:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:32:46 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"etHYG2.0.WM2.KL2tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, C. Cagle wrote: > > Type-one error: if our goal is to reject all falsehood, then we > > invariably will reject many truths as well (DISBELIEVER) > > Irrational. You are declaring in advance that there is no way to > discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). INITIALLY there is not. Only experimental evidence determines the reality of a scientific claim. And there lies the problem. In order to test a claim, we have to take it seriously, and taking a claim seriously when the claim is a hoax is one facet of being led on by a hoaxer. If we decide to REPLICATE a hoaxed experiment, we are taken in even more. But in many cases, it is impossible to expose the hoax without replicating the experiment. Therefore, I say we should bite the bullet, and attempt replication, even if we fear being laughed at. To investigate new discoveries, or to even listen to the claims, we must accept that many of them will simply waste our time, and others might draw laughter when the hoaxer announces the trick. But the risk of embarassment is worthwhile, should any of the claims prove to be genuine in the end. > > Type-two error: if our goal is to discover all truths, then we > > invariably will accept many falsehoods as well (BELIEVER) > > Wrong again. You are merely supposing that believing all things > means that one lacks the discriminatory quality which I say people > can obtain but won't make the effort to obtain. "Believing all things??" I think you are putting many things into these statements which are not there. Apparently you're not familiar with the type-1/type-2 errors in judgement of scientific claims. They are not my statements, they're a well-known description of the opposite ends of the range of belief/disbelief regarding new discoveries. Anyone who deals with skeptics or debunkers should try to understand the implications of the two above statements. If you've never encountered them before, please be aware that they are discussed in the literature, and figure largely in the minds of many of the "skeptics" who debunk new discoveries. An article on type1/type2 errors can be found in the magazine SKEPTIC, V5 #2, "Skepticism and Credulity: finding the balance between Type I and Type II errors." > >I suggest that several of us try building small segments of the gravity > >capacitor, even though the chance is not small that we will fail. The > >alternative is to take the pseudoskeptic path, nurse wounds over the Greg > >Watson episode, maintain hypersensitivity to having our egos punctured... > > One ought to be able to show with some level of logic why the gravity > capacitor ought to work rather than mere insistence that it does. If you've seen the construction plans, you'll note that there is no logic to it. This is not entirely bad, since the effect is not the result of any gravitational theory, instead it is a chance discovery. There is no theory offered, only a claim of an observed phenomenon. Is it a hoax? If so, then there is little to be gained by the hoaxer. http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html If you object to the term "gravity" and "gravity warp", then I'll have to agree... it might have nothing to do with gravity. For example, if it is real, then it could be an interaction with some kind of flow of "dark matter." If so, then it'd be more like a paddle-wheel for exotic matter than like a "gravity generator". > If you haven't precisely identified the nature of gravity in the > first place then to suppose that you have built a thing that somehow > reduces it seems a little presumptuous and even a bit ridiculous. If someone (the claimant) sees something occur, should he remain silent about it? What if the observed event is totally impossible according to contemporary theory, and would draw laughter from physicists (and even draw accusations of being presumptuous and ridiculous?) Should that person remain silent, or should he insist that his observation is real, regardless of the derision it attracts? And if the observation is accurate and the phenomenon is real, what does this say about people who deride claims because of their outward appearance only, and never pause to listen to the details? As was stated time and again during the Cold Fusion controversy, lack of a theory is no excuse to reject solid evidence. Throughout the history of science, observations of inexplicable events has forced major changes in theory. If we reject observations because they violate theory or make no logical sense, or threaten to embarass us, then we blind ourselves to new discoveries. > The only way you can be embarrassed is to have your ignorance > exposed. And if you are an upright person in the first place then > there is no shame in that. Ignorance is not a crime and it is > curable with the truth. I strongly agree, and that is one essential point of my email: those who fear appearing ignorant in front of their peers will never dare to attempt replication of experiments, if those experiments clearly show current theories to be wrong. Those who fear appearing ignorant won't even dare to admit that PERHAPS the results could be genuine. I see that one reason new science is ignored is that many contemporary scientists fear having their ignorance exposed in public, and lack of humility is the source of the problem. If they (and ourselves as well) could just maintain a bit more humility than we do at present, then much progress could be made. Without humility, any new discovery threatens to embarass us, and to rub our noses in how little we understand. And to protect egos, therefore certain new discoveries must be rejected. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 18:37:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11105; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:36:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:36:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:36:48 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) & UFOs In-Reply-To: <200003242347.SAA19309@world.std.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5KwvS3.0.Lj2.6P2tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Jim Uban wrote: > One interesting effect I've seen reported more than once is that the > experiencer becomes possessed with the idea that they are to now come > forth with some sort of revolutionary technology; yet the specific > details never become quite clear to the person, driven as they may have > become. Jim Interesting! And sometimes it doesn't involve technology, but instead the person believes that they are chosen by god to act as the next messaiah! If nonphysical entities lurk outside the material realm, I'd say that many of them are out to become "gods", and want to attract worshippers by creating messiahs and founders of new religions. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 19:03:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17880; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:02:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:02:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:02:31 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: capacitor asymmetry? In-Reply-To: <200003241209.EAA23745@www.eskimo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"yf8o-3.0.HN4.En2tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > The directional bias is the result of the relative dielectric > constant of the two dielectrics. I the first case [paper and wax] and > in other cases two differing dielectrics such as Pyrex and > Titainium compounds. > The greater the difference the greater the thrust. > See alexander Frolov's work. > www.padrak.com/ine/FROLOV1.html THAT'S an interesting idea. Wax paper doesn't appear to be totally symmetrical. Perhaps the wax is thicker on one side. If so, then it's extremely important to place the wax paper in the same orientation in every layer. Using any glue to hold it together might reduce or eliminate the thrust. Even better would be to intentionally use two different dielectric sheets in every layer. But do those slots in the foil do anything? And if copper or aluminum is used instead of tin, will the device fail to create thrust? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 19:25:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24117; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:25:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:25:20 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:24:43 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <94codssg1edqm2pungu58brrggg9di8nfb@4ax.com> References: <38dddd6c.7825362@mail.midiowa.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA24092 Resent-Message-ID: <"sLF81.0.gu5.V63tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:00:32 -0800 (PST), William Beaty wrote: [snip] >Maybe unbeknownst to everyone, there is some sort of electro/grav/thermal >interaction at phase change points, and tin just happens to be close >enough to "room temperature" that someone would stumble across it >accidentally. Aren't some free-energy claims based upon the behavior of >magnetic materials near their curie temperature? It's another >phase-change threshold, where nonlinear weirdness and self-organized >patterns arise. This is an interesting idea. It also leads to a simple extra measurement to be carried out on any completed devices:- Embed them in ice, then apply the power, and measure the weight loss (or lifting force) as the ice melts and the temperature slowly rises (assuming room temp > 17.85 ºC). Maybe there will also be a glitch in the lift? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 20:30:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA10528; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:30:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:30:02 -0800 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:28:13 -0800 Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Message-ID: <20000324.203025.-377669.5.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"LJ2Sf3.0.Oa2.934tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I found seven sites with same info as Bill B's site. It is worth a try but April 1 coming so I am little weary. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 20:59:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18257; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:59:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:59:03 -0800 Message-ID: <38DC554C.7AF9B8AA@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:57:33 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gQlBI.0.8T4.MU4tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: its categorically impossible for anyone to never fall for anything, this presumes a human being can never err. Like you Abe Lincoln said You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.... or something like that. C. Cagle wrote: > >Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new discoveries, we > >must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This can't be > >helped. > > Wrong. It can be helped. As long as we insist on doing science in > an unscientific manner then, of course, it can't be helped. But > there is a cure for being hoaxed. > > >One of the reasons for the current state of contemporary science is that > >mainstream researchers have a terrible fear of being shown to be foolish. > > A completely justified fear since I think that in certain research > areas there is a heavy population of fools. They know who they are > and they live in fear of being exposed. > > >A "skeptic" will rarely fall for a hoax... but will ignore all reports of > >free energy, antigravity, transmutation etc. If we take these reports > >seriously, then we need to have a thick skin, and laugh at ourselves, and > >assume that we'll be victims of hoaxes again and again. > > But there's no end to the possible number of hoaxes. And most of > mainstream thought on a variety of subjects is in error and therefore > no different than a large scale hoax that even took in the hoaxer. > > > Type-one error: if our goal is to reject all falsehood, then we > > invariably will reject many truths as well (DISBELIEVER) > > Irrational. You are declaring in advance that there is no way to > discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). You may not have found a > way but you are being presumptuous in supposing that either there is > no way or that no one has found it. > > > Type-two error: if our goal is to discover all truths, then we > > invariably will accept many falsehoods as well (BELIEVER) > > Wrong again. You are merely supposing that believing all things > means that one lacks the discriminatory quality which I say people > can obtain but won't make the effort to obtain. > > >I'm a "believer" rather than a "disbeliever", which makes me an easy mark > >for any hoax. But also, it spoils the hoaxer's fun! There's no point > >in pulling a fast one on a believer, especially if that believer is > >unashamed of being fooled, and also never parts with money under any > >circumstances. > > Then he's never really a believer but rather a skeptic trying to fake > his way through life in the guise of one who is hopeful. When it > comes right down to it money is the measure of whether or not someone > believes because money is tangible and you can rub it between your > fingers and buy groceries with it and cars and tools and pay your > rent with it. When some one steps up to the plate and ponies up real > cash then he's really a believer. He has a quantity of a quality > that the rest of your lack and that is 'faith'. The rest of you can > say you believe but you don't demonstrate your belief and hence your > words fall to the ground empty and are nothing. Words have a > tremendous power but when people spend time destroying the power of > their own words then they get the reward they deserve which is a lack > of faith. > > >The REAL challenge is to do the equivalent of convincing > >"The Amazing Randi" that you have true psychic powers. And then > >convincing him to part with some of that prize money he's accumulated! > > There's no way to beat some people's offers because they cannot or > will not precisely define what constitutes 'proof' or 'evidence' for > them. The 'latch point' where they believe is arbitrary and if some > of their own cash is on the line then they never have to reach the > latch point even if they secretly believe in their own heart. They > can still refrain from issuing the prize. 'Proof' and 'evidence' > are the same substance and the only thing that separates them is the > magnitude. Both 'proof' and 'evidence' are the subjective > interpretation of data, not the data itself. > > >I suggest that several of us try building small segments of the gravity > >capacitor, even though the chance is not small that we will fail. The > >alternative is to take the pseudoskeptic path, nurse wounds over the Greg > >Watson episode, maintain hypersensitivity to having our egos punctured... > > One ought to be able to show with some level of logic why the gravity > capacitor ought to work rather than mere insistence that it does. > If you haven't precisely identified the nature of gravity in the > first place then to suppose that you have built a thing that somehow > reduces it seems a little presumptuous and even a bit ridiculous. > > >and have no fun at all! :) > > > >PS, if the world REALLY IS filled with weird stuff, then a believer will > >have opportunity to play with it all, while a disbeliever will live in a > >world filled with hoaxers who wish to embarass him. Yet the vast numbers > >of hoaxers will be an illusion, and the weird things will be real! > > The only way you can be embarrassed is to have your ignorance > exposed. And if you are an upright person in the first place then > there is no shame in that. Ignorance is not a crime and it is > curable with the truth. Compound ignorance, on the other hand, is > when you don't know that you don't know. The sad part is that people > who are afflicted with compound ignorance may not be curable because > in their insistence that they know they prevent the truth from being > allowed entrance into their inner heart. When you invest in some > new unproven technology you are exercising faith. When you hold back > and decide not to invest unless you know you are going to come out on > top then you deserve very little return on your money. But more > horrible thing than having your ignorance exposed is having your lack > of faith exposed. Then your utter powerlessness is exposed. > > Amble over to http://www.singtech.com and see something interesting. > > Regards, > > -- > Charles Cagle, CEO > Singularity Technologies, Inc. > 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. > Salem, OR 97304 > 503-362-7781 > singtech@telestream.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 21:13:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22977; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:13:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:13:13 -0800 Message-ID: <38DC58A2.9B20D24A@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:11:46 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Orgone Energy vs. Electricity References: <0.990f7f66.25650306@aol.com> <003a01bf9499$6569c180$d6a970d1@markross> <38DA0B1B.60A1@cyberportal.net> <38DADE36.F097AFC7@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zdz_P2.0.wc5.fh4tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: see below comments D Adams wrote: > My understanding is that orgone is a promoridal energy force, likely > akin to the potentials > outlined in some of the hyperdimensional pundits floating about.... > Here we have a massless, > energy particle that dwells partly in what we perceive as our physical > reality and partly beyond > in another dimensional state. If orgone is the first essence of > energetic manifestation into > our physical reality or belongs to a superset of first essences, and > is in a truly non-polarized > form when it first 'appears', as I've long suspected, then when it > manifests and encounters > other polarized forms of energy in the aether it causes a reaction or > disturbance along certain > vectors. Its been often said that orgone can't accurately be measured > with standard, > conventional tools one might use for electricity or magnetism, etc... > but yet orgone can affect > the readings of a multimeter... so how and why does this occur? The > best explanation I've > seen to date comes from James Demeo and Alix Schiffer.... that > generally the existence and movement of orgone creates different kinds > of 'pressures' some of which can be detected electrically. > > Perhaps a simple and dirty allegory would be rubbing a plastic comb > through a cats fur.... the > end result is static electricity. Imagine the comb is the orgone > energy and the fur is the medium > in which it moves... so then orgone (the comb) is not the electricity, > but its movement through > the aether causes an electrical reaction to occur.... does this make > sense? > > Further, it appears as though orgone itself can be polarized, however > my gut feeling and > thoughts on this are that polarization occurs subsequent to its intial > pure state of unity, > positive and negative polarities appear to have been documented by > Schiffer and I believe > these states are separate from other states such as orgone turning > into DOR, etc. > > > Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > >> sparky wrote: >> > >> <> >> > > >> > > By the way, great comments, Gary. It is interesting to consider >> what this >> > > means in the relation between orgonomy and electronics. I see >> the two as >> > > intricately related, although exactly how is not completely >> clear to me >> > > yet. But, it keeps bugging me that orgone accumulators are >> simply >> > > capacitors, and that they tend to discharge electricity at a >> certain >> > > point of build up. >> > > >> > > Thus, what is the point where orgone becomes electricity, and >> vice versa? >> > > Are electricity and orgone the same, only much different states >> like >> > > plasma versus a solid? Such strange stuff. Any other original >> insights >> > > into the relationship between orgone and electricity anyone? >> >> What most people do not realize is that Reich had all sorts of >> radioactive >> materials laying around him lab. Reich states that high-voltage >> activates >> orgone energy. What appears to be happening is that the negative >> plate >> on >> an orgone accumulator attracts radon gas emitted from the >> radioactive >> material. Polonium is formed... this is a pure alpha emitter. This >> would >> tends to explain why his vacor tubes had to be soaked in orgone >> before >> they would function. >> >> Not too many people know this but his cloud busters had radioactive >> ores >> in their bases. Transportation of one of these cloudbusters got >> Reich >> thrown in prison. It was the transportation of "hazardous >> radioactive >> material" that got him thrown into jail and not because of his >> medical >> discoveries. >> >> The blackened outside laboratory walls, Reich called deadly orgone >> energy >> (DOR) had to have been decayed polonium, or lead-210. This stuff >> would >> make you sick after long exposure. >> >> So... behind all of Reich's who hah hah is a truth that is stranger >> than fiction. From this we can take his research further if we can >> admit to ourselves that nuclear science involved and if we can put >> aside for a moment the paranoid ramblings of the atomic era >> mind-set. >> >> -Bruce A. Perreault > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 21:13:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23205; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:13:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:13:39 -0800 Message-ID: <38DC58C0.39A9C455@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:12:16 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net, patrick tremblay , freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: BRUCE - Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> <38DA25B6.8DE786D@microtec.net > <38DAEADC.7DEC@cyberportal.net> <38DC3B58.BFE82350@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HyqyK1.0.Pg5.3i4tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: see below comments D Adams wrote: > How close are you to having a device that is practically useful for > the average person - > as in providing real, meaningful energy? Just wondering.... > > Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > >> patrick tremblay wrote: >> > >> > Bruce I'm a little mixed about your energy device: >> > >> > You are talking of a radiant energy fuel cell radioactive >> device... >> > Now you got me, the device you are going to produce is it: A Fuel >> Cell >> > OR a radiant device OR a nuclear generator? >> >> I am perfecting a radiant circuit and at the same time a fuel cell >> that will work with or without radioactive material. My pending >> patent >> was sent out to around fifty people who had made a request for it. >> The circuit energizes the fuel cell. No one has ever used my method >> to the best of my knowledge. T. H. Moray hinted to it but I don't >> think >> that he realized that the method that I am using was taking place >> within >> his power-tubes. >> >> I have also discovered a way to replace his valves. It was only a >> few >> days ago that I solved the burn out problem. The valve that I >> brought >> to the conference last July had burned out before it displayed the >> damped energy surges that I witnessed the night previous. I have now >> >> solved this burnout problem and can now demonstrate the effect at my >> >> next conference this upcoming July. >> >> > >> > if it's a fuel cell then why radioactive materials and what's with >> >> > this radiant device? >> >> I have gone beyond T. H. Morays original work in many areas. >> My fuel cell design can run on hydrogen assisted by the pumped >> ions from the circuit, or it can use radioactive material to >> replace the electronic ion pump. Without the hydrogen the cell >> will put out energy for a long time. T. H. Moray's power tubes >> lasted for a few months. With the hydrogen this can be extended >> indefinately. >> >> There are many aspects to my research. Someday I will have to >> open a school to teach all that I have learned. >> >> -Bruce A. Perreault > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 22:41:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA09871; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:41:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:41:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:41:20 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? In-Reply-To: <20000324.203025.-377669.5.tv@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fP1_h2.0.8Q2.I-5tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 tv@juno.com wrote: > > I found seven sites with same info as Bill B's site. > > It is worth a try but April 1 coming so I am little weary. Yes, people should only attempt construction if they accept the usual risk that ANY weird-science claim can be a hoax, especially if the source is anonymous. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 22:49:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12325; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:49:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:49:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:49:29 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: capacitor asymmetry? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rlBdP2.0.U03.y56tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, William Beaty wrote: > THAT'S an interesting idea. Wax paper doesn't appear to be totally > symmetrical. Another idea: if the effect is real, perhaps the asymmetry is akin to the asymmetry of water going down a drain. If the capacitor structure induces the creation of a cylinder-shaped "ether vortex," then the CW end might behave differently than the CCW end, and the vortex would be robust yet the initial creation of the vortex would be sensitive to tiny perturbations. If the capacitor had two (+) plates at its ends, maybe it would still produce strong unidirectional thrust, yet every time it was charged anew, the direction of thrust would be chosen randomly. (Didn't Mark Twain say something about scientists deriving immense loads of speculation from relatively infinitesimal investments of fact? :) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 22:56:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13720; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:56:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:56:03 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 02:08:13 -0500 Message-ID: <20000325070813000.AAA289@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"C3UC92.0.EM3.2C6tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill writes: >Maybe unbeknownst to everyone, there is some sort of electro/grav/thermal >interaction at phase change points, and tin just happens to be close >enough to "room temperature" that someone would stumble across it >accidentally. Aren't some free-energy claims based upon the behavior of >magnetic materials near their curie temperature? It's another >phase-change threshold, where nonlinear weirdness and self-organized >patterns arise. Yes, there was a Gadolinium motor built a few years back that operated on this principle. I think the Curie temp was around 75F or so. A very talented high school girl in Montana, I believe, machined a motor that utilized the oscillation of the temperature induced phase change into rotary power. She won a bunch of awards and scholarships for it. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 23:42:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19172; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:42:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:42:17 -0800 Message-ID: <020901bf962d$a2c6de60$25b47ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:42:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DwhCy.0.Nh4.Nt6tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 >To: billb@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) >> >Take my word at the moment, and start building it to see it in front of you, >is easy to dublicate a "part" of it. Or wait for pictures to come. >> Looking forward to the pictures! 1) Are there as-built drawings on how this particular unit was constructed? 2) What materials were used? Where purchased? 3) What was the estimated cost for construction? 4) Can this guy build another unit for purchase for other researchers? Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 01:00:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27799; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:59:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:59:47 -0800 Message-ID: <01BF95F5.C33C0540@istf-1-26.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 01:02:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BF95F5.C33C0540" Resent-Message-ID: <"OU0Ca3.0.Go6.208tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF95F5.C33C0540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robin, We've heard this theme before regarding gravity - from the description = of John Schnurer's gravity shielding experiment, at = http://www.gravity.org/exp.htm: "the weight reduction was coincident with the superconducting transition = of the HTC disk, which occurred quite rapidly when the disk warmed up = over its critical temperature." Dan Quickert -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk=20 Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 7:25 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor (fwd) This is an interesting idea. It also leads to a simple extra measurement = to be carried out on any completed devices:- Embed them in ice, then apply the power, and measure the weight loss (or lifting force) as the ice melts and the temperature slowly rises = (assuming room temp > 17.85 =BAC). Maybe there will also be a glitch in the lift? 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Aren't some free-energy claims based upon the behavior of >>magnetic materials near their curie temperature? It's another >>phase-change threshold, where nonlinear weirdness and self-organized >>patterns arise. >This is an interesting idea. It also leads to a simple extra measurement to >be carried out on any completed devices:- >Embed them in ice, then apply the power, and measure the weight loss (or >lifting force) as the ice melts and the temperature slowly rises (assuming >room temp > 17.85 ºC). Maybe there will also be a glitch in the lift? > The change can be slow (weeks, etc.?) Antimony or Bismuth can prevent the change from white to gray tin. Gray tin (<13.2 ºC) has a cubic structure, white a tetragonal. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 04:10:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14661; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 04:09:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 04:09:41 -0800 Message-ID: <38DCAC9D.245D@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:10:05 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Orgone Energy vs. Electricity References: <0.990f7f66.25650306@aol.com> <003a01bf9499$6569c180$d6a970d1@markross> <38DA0B1B.60A1@cyberportal.net> <38DADE36.F097AFC7@telusplanet.net> <38DC58A2.9B20D24A@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rEpSZ1.0.xa3.3oAtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: D Adams, Whoa! Why get into an esoteric explanation? In my humble opinion this is why mainstream science does not take these types of discoveries seriously. We not to communicate their lauguage. -BAP D Adams wrote: > > see below comments > > D Adams wrote: > > > My understanding is that orgone is a promoridal energy force, likely > > akin to the potentials > > outlined in some of the hyperdimensional pundits floating about.... > > Here we have a massless, > > energy particle that dwells partly in what we perceive as our physical > > reality and partly beyond > > in another dimensional state. If orgone is the first essence of > > energetic manifestation into > > our physical reality or belongs to a superset of first essences, and > > is in a truly non-polarized > > form when it first 'appears', as I've long suspected, then when it > > manifests and encounters > > other polarized forms of energy in the aether it causes a reaction or > > disturbance along certain > > vectors. Its been often said that orgone can't accurately be measured > > with standard, > > conventional tools one might use for electricity or magnetism, etc... > > but yet orgone can affect > > the readings of a multimeter... so how and why does this occur? The > > best explanation I've > > seen to date comes from James Demeo and Alix Schiffer.... that > > generally the existence and movement of orgone creates different kinds > > of 'pressures' some of which can be detected electrically. > > > > Perhaps a simple and dirty allegory would be rubbing a plastic comb > > through a cats fur.... the > > end result is static electricity. Imagine the comb is the orgone > > energy and the fur is the medium > > in which it moves... so then orgone (the comb) is not the electricity, > > but its movement through > > the aether causes an electrical reaction to occur.... does this make > > sense? > > > > Further, it appears as though orgone itself can be polarized, however > > my gut feeling and > > thoughts on this are that polarization occurs subsequent to its intial > > pure state of unity, > > positive and negative polarities appear to have been documented by > > Schiffer and I believe > > these states are separate from other states such as orgone turning > > into DOR, etc. > > > > > > Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > >> sparky wrote: > >> > > >> <> > >> > > > >> > > By the way, great comments, Gary. It is interesting to consider > >> what this > >> > > means in the relation between orgonomy and electronics. I see > >> the two as > >> > > intricately related, although exactly how is not completely > >> clear to me > >> > > yet. But, it keeps bugging me that orgone accumulators are > >> simply > >> > > capacitors, and that they tend to discharge electricity at a > >> certain > >> > > point of build up. > >> > > > >> > > Thus, what is the point where orgone becomes electricity, and > >> vice versa? > >> > > Are electricity and orgone the same, only much different states > >> like > >> > > plasma versus a solid? Such strange stuff. Any other original > >> insights > >> > > into the relationship between orgone and electricity anyone? > >> > >> What most people do not realize is that Reich had all sorts of > >> radioactive > >> materials laying around him lab. Reich states that high-voltage > >> activates > >> orgone energy. What appears to be happening is that the negative > >> plate > >> on > >> an orgone accumulator attracts radon gas emitted from the > >> radioactive > >> material. Polonium is formed... this is a pure alpha emitter. This > >> would > >> tends to explain why his vacor tubes had to be soaked in orgone > >> before > >> they would function. > >> > >> Not too many people know this but his cloud busters had radioactive > >> ores > >> in their bases. Transportation of one of these cloudbusters got > >> Reich > >> thrown in prison. It was the transportation of "hazardous > >> radioactive > >> material" that got him thrown into jail and not because of his > >> medical > >> discoveries. > >> > >> The blackened outside laboratory walls, Reich called deadly orgone > >> energy > >> (DOR) had to have been decayed polonium, or lead-210. This stuff > >> would > >> make you sick after long exposure. > >> > >> So... behind all of Reich's who hah hah is a truth that is stranger > >> than fiction. From this we can take his research further if we can > >> admit to ourselves that nuclear science involved and if we can put > >> aside for a moment the paranoid ramblings of the atomic era > >> mind-set. > >> > >> -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 04:35:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA18157; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 04:35:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 04:35:23 -0800 Message-ID: <38DCB28B.4F4@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:35:23 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: BRUCE - Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> <38DA25B6.8DE786D@microtec.net > <38DAEADC.7DEC@cyberportal.net> <38DC3B58.BFE82350@telusplanet.net> <38DC58C0.39A9C455@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DXHnx3.0.bR4.AABtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: D Adams wrote: > > see below comments > > D Adams wrote: > > How close are you to having a device that is practically useful for > the average person - as in providing real, meaningful energy? Just > wondering.... In all honesty practical power that you can really sink your teeth into has not yet been achieved. The task at hand now is for me to build a stack of fuel cells that will self-sustain the device. This is only a matter of going to the grind and getting the job done. The problem has been one of funding, not technology. I have finally come up with the funds to buy the materials to do this. This week the price quotes came in and next week they can be ordered. At this stage all of the technological details have been solved. It has been a relief this week to have solved our valve burn-out problem. This has been the main sticking point. The valve design that is being used by me replaces the Moray valve in the antenna and ground circuits. This jewel works very well and can now be packaged and offered to the experimenter. A 12-volt fuel cell stack will be built within the next month. I will report back the end results both good or bad. I can tell you at this point that this fuel cell design is promising. The materials being used present a high-density concept that works on a small cell scale. Now it is time to bulk up my bench-top results. I can tell you that the materials that are going into this fuel cell can be confirmed by the chemist in terms of real science and mathematics. I will not disclose the materials at this time. However, I will tell you that they are completely non-toxic and their price tags are within reason when buying them in bulk quantities. -Bruce A. Perreault > > > > Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > >> patrick tremblay wrote: > >> > > >> > Bruce I'm a little mixed about your energy device: > >> > > >> > You are talking of a radiant energy fuel cell radioactive > >> device... > >> > Now you got me, the device you are going to produce is it: A Fuel > >> Cell > >> > OR a radiant device OR a nuclear generator? > >> > >> I am perfecting a radiant circuit and at the same time a fuel cell > >> that will work with or without radioactive material. My pending > >> patent > >> was sent out to around fifty people who had made a request for it. > >> The circuit energizes the fuel cell. No one has ever used my method > >> to the best of my knowledge. T. H. Moray hinted to it but I don't > >> think > >> that he realized that the method that I am using was taking place > >> within > >> his power-tubes. > >> > >> I have also discovered a way to replace his valves. It was only a > >> few > >> days ago that I solved the burn out problem. The valve that I > >> brought > >> to the conference last July had burned out before it displayed the > >> damped energy surges that I witnessed the night previous. I have now > >> > >> solved this burnout problem and can now demonstrate the effect at my > >> > >> next conference this upcoming July. > >> > >> > > >> > if it's a fuel cell then why radioactive materials and what's with > >> > >> > this radiant device? > >> > >> I have gone beyond T. H. Morays original work in many areas. > >> My fuel cell design can run on hydrogen assisted by the pumped > >> ions from the circuit, or it can use radioactive material to > >> replace the electronic ion pump. Without the hydrogen the cell > >> will put out energy for a long time. T. H. Moray's power tubes > >> lasted for a few months. With the hydrogen this can be extended > >> indefinately. > >> > >> There are many aspects to my research. Someday I will have to > >> open a school to teach all that I have learned. > >> > >> -Bruce A. Perreault > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 04:38:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA19057; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 04:38:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 04:38:38 -0800 Message-ID: <38DCB36B.905@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:39:07 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Shipment of Radioactive Materials References: <20000324.164744.-419461.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8bgWX.0.gf4.DDBtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom, Thanks for this information. I will keep this in mind in the radioactive devices. At present I am trying to eliminate the radioactive material from the designs. -BAP tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > > Mr. Perreault a while ago mentioned that his device employs radioactive > material and that at a certain point it becomes impossible to legally > ship the device (or fuel or whatever has the radioactivity). Although I > don't know all the rules and regulations, I know there is at least one > way around this restriction. Namely, radioactive material is classified > as level I, II, or III based on its radioactivity at the container > surface and 1 meter from the surface. So put the device in a larger box > and the inverse square law will take care of the problem. Sounds fishy, > but the radiopharmaceutical company I work for has had this procedure run > by the legal department and uses it when its shipments exceed level III > standards. > > -Tom Grimes From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 05:16:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA24402; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 05:16:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 05:16:21 -0800 Message-ID: <38D16160.7E89DD97@ctv.es> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:34:08 +0100 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [es] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net CC: Nu Energy Horizons , freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Orgone Energy vs. Electricity References: <0.990f7f66.25650306@aol.com> <003a01bf9499$6569c180$d6a970d1@markross> <38DA0B1B.60A1@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l36MY2.0.5z5.bmBtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all. Maybe we are making the same like people who are looking answers for questions without answer. Ancients look in gods the man origin, and now people try to find our origin in extraterrestrial stuff. Maybe we are taking too easy answers to unknow answers in these devices (Testatika, Hubbard, Hendershot, Moray, Reich and others. I'm not saying Bruce's explanations are wrong, I'm only making a observation. Vicente. "Bruce A. Perreault" escribió: > sparky wrote: > > > <> > > > > > > By the way, great comments, Gary. It is interesting to consider what this > > > means in the relation between orgonomy and electronics. I see the two as > > > intricately related, although exactly how is not completely clear to me > > > yet. But, it keeps bugging me that orgone accumulators are simply > > > capacitors, and that they tend to discharge electricity at a certain > > > point of build up. > > > > > > Thus, what is the point where orgone becomes electricity, and vice versa? > > > Are electricity and orgone the same, only much different states like > > > plasma versus a solid? Such strange stuff. Any other original insights > > > into the relationship between orgone and electricity anyone? > > What most people do not realize is that Reich had all sorts of > radioactive > materials laying around him lab. Reich states that high-voltage > activates > orgone energy. What appears to be happening is that the negative plate > on > an orgone accumulator attracts radon gas emitted from the radioactive > material. Polonium is formed... this is a pure alpha emitter. This would > tends to explain why his vacor tubes had to be soaked in orgone before > they would function. > > Not too many people know this but his cloud busters had radioactive ores > in their bases. Transportation of one of these cloudbusters got Reich > thrown in prison. It was the transportation of "hazardous radioactive > material" that got him thrown into jail and not because of his medical > discoveries. > > The blackened outside laboratory walls, Reich called deadly orgone > energy > (DOR) had to have been decayed polonium, or lead-210. This stuff would > make you sick after long exposure. > > So... behind all of Reich's who hah hah is a truth that is stranger > than fiction. From this we can take his research further if we can > admit to ourselves that nuclear science involved and if we can put > aside for a moment the paranoid ramblings of the atomic era mind-set. > > -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 05:36:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA28183; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 05:36:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 05:36:09 -0800 Message-ID: <38DCCE87.C395F676@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:34:47 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: BRUCE - Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> <38DA25B6.8DE786D@microtec.net > <38DAEADC.7DEC@cyberportal.net> <38DC3B58.BFE82350@telusplanet.net> <38DC58C0.39A9C455@telusplanet.net> <38DCB28B.4F4@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c4RNZ1.0.Gu6.83Ctu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > D Adams wrote: > > > > see below comments > > > > D Adams wrote: > > > > How close are you to having a device that is practically useful for > > the average person - as in providing real, meaningful energy? Just > > wondering.... > > In all honesty practical power that you can really sink your teeth > into has not yet been achieved. The task at hand now is for me to > build a stack of fuel cells that will self-sustain the device. This > is only a matter of going to the grind and getting the job done. > The problem has been one of funding, not technology. I have finally > come up with the funds to buy the materials to do this. This week > the price quotes came in and next week they can be ordered. > > At this stage all of the technological details have been solved. > It has been a relief this week to have solved our valve burn-out > problem. This has been the main sticking point. The valve design > that is being used by me replaces the Moray valve in the antenna > and ground circuits. This jewel works very well and can now be > packaged and offered to the experimenter. > > A 12-volt fuel cell stack will be built within the next month. > I will report back the end results both good or bad. I can tell > you at this point that this fuel cell design is promising. The > materials being used present a high-density concept that works > on a small cell scale. Now it is time to bulk up my bench-top > results. I can tell you that the materials that are going into > this fuel cell can be confirmed by the chemist in terms of real > science and mathematics. I will not disclose the materials at > this time. However, I will tell you that they are completely > non-toxic and their price tags are within reason when buying > them in bulk quantities. > > -Bruce A. Perreault > > > > > > > Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > > > >> patrick tremblay wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Bruce I'm a little mixed about your energy device: > > >> > > > >> > You are talking of a radiant energy fuel cell radioactive > > >> device... > > >> > Now you got me, the device you are going to produce is it: A Fuel > > >> Cell > > >> > OR a radiant device OR a nuclear generator? > > >> > > >> I am perfecting a radiant circuit and at the same time a fuel cell > > >> that will work with or without radioactive material. My pending > > >> patent > > >> was sent out to around fifty people who had made a request for it. > > >> The circuit energizes the fuel cell. No one has ever used my method > > >> to the best of my knowledge. T. H. Moray hinted to it but I don't > > >> think > > >> that he realized that the method that I am using was taking place > > >> within > > >> his power-tubes. > > >> > > >> I have also discovered a way to replace his valves. It was only a > > >> few > > >> days ago that I solved the burn out problem. The valve that I > > >> brought > > >> to the conference last July had burned out before it displayed the > > >> damped energy surges that I witnessed the night previous. I have now > > >> > > >> solved this burnout problem and can now demonstrate the effect at my > > >> > > >> next conference this upcoming July. > > >> > > >> > > > >> > if it's a fuel cell then why radioactive materials and what's with > > >> > > >> > this radiant device? > > >> > > >> I have gone beyond T. H. Morays original work in many areas. > > >> My fuel cell design can run on hydrogen assisted by the pumped > > >> ions from the circuit, or it can use radioactive material to > > >> replace the electronic ion pump. Without the hydrogen the cell > > >> will put out energy for a long time. T. H. Moray's power tubes > > >> lasted for a few months. With the hydrogen this can be extended > > >> indefinately. > > >> > > >> There are many aspects to my research. Someday I will have to > > >> open a school to teach all that I have learned. > > >> > > >> -Bruce A. Perreault > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 05:36:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA28246; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 05:36:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 05:36:16 -0800 Message-ID: <38DCCE8D.FE8838C7@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:34:54 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: BRUCE - Re: Sea of Energy - Where(how) to start. References: <38D150B2.39E0@cyberportal.net> <38D682BF.92ACE2B6@globalcrossing.com> <38D79148.F63@cyberportal.net> <38D79354.2E9D7E13@globalcrossing.com> <38D7AA23.7578@cyberportal.net> <38D8F430.DC32DE70@globalcrossing.com> <38D907F6.12F@cyberportal.net> <38D9165B.3BEBF5DD@globalcrossing.com> <38D9819A.3429@cyberportal.net> <1s0jdsc08sgrjqjitcekcai4i6v7cnt14b@4ax.com> <38D9871E.2F58@cyberportal.net> <4s4jdssh8rp79hnk6rgvdmj7l8kann63p3@4ax.com> <38DA0D44.6BDA@cyberportal.net> <38DA25B6.8DE786D@microtec.net > <38DAEADC.7DEC@cyberportal.net> <38DC3B58.BFE82350@telusplanet.net> <38DC58C0.39A9C455@telusplanet.net> <38DCB28B.4F4@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N8OZF2.0.8v6.F3Ctu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bruce I look forward to hear of your upcoming results and wish you the best of luck! Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > D Adams wrote: > > > > see below comments > > > > D Adams wrote: > > > > How close are you to having a device that is practically useful for > > the average person - as in providing real, meaningful energy? Just > > wondering.... > > In all honesty practical power that you can really sink your teeth > into has not yet been achieved. The task at hand now is for me to > build a stack of fuel cells that will self-sustain the device. This > is only a matter of going to the grind and getting the job done. > The problem has been one of funding, not technology. I have finally > come up with the funds to buy the materials to do this. This week > the price quotes came in and next week they can be ordered. > > At this stage all of the technological details have been solved. > It has been a relief this week to have solved our valve burn-out > problem. This has been the main sticking point. The valve design > that is being used by me replaces the Moray valve in the antenna > and ground circuits. This jewel works very well and can now be > packaged and offered to the experimenter. > > A 12-volt fuel cell stack will be built within the next month. > I will report back the end results both good or bad. I can tell > you at this point that this fuel cell design is promising. The > materials being used present a high-density concept that works > on a small cell scale. Now it is time to bulk up my bench-top > results. I can tell you that the materials that are going into > this fuel cell can be confirmed by the chemist in terms of real > science and mathematics. I will not disclose the materials at > this time. However, I will tell you that they are completely > non-toxic and their price tags are within reason when buying > them in bulk quantities. > > -Bruce A. Perreault > > > > > > > Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > > > >> patrick tremblay wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Bruce I'm a little mixed about your energy device: > > >> > > > >> > You are talking of a radiant energy fuel cell radioactive > > >> device... > > >> > Now you got me, the device you are going to produce is it: A Fuel > > >> Cell > > >> > OR a radiant device OR a nuclear generator? > > >> > > >> I am perfecting a radiant circuit and at the same time a fuel cell > > >> that will work with or without radioactive material. My pending > > >> patent > > >> was sent out to around fifty people who had made a request for it. > > >> The circuit energizes the fuel cell. No one has ever used my method > > >> to the best of my knowledge. T. H. Moray hinted to it but I don't > > >> think > > >> that he realized that the method that I am using was taking place > > >> within > > >> his power-tubes. > > >> > > >> I have also discovered a way to replace his valves. It was only a > > >> few > > >> days ago that I solved the burn out problem. The valve that I > > >> brought > > >> to the conference last July had burned out before it displayed the > > >> damped energy surges that I witnessed the night previous. I have now > > >> > > >> solved this burnout problem and can now demonstrate the effect at my > > >> > > >> next conference this upcoming July. > > >> > > >> > > > >> > if it's a fuel cell then why radioactive materials and what's with > > >> > > >> > this radiant device? > > >> > > >> I have gone beyond T. H. Morays original work in many areas. > > >> My fuel cell design can run on hydrogen assisted by the pumped > > >> ions from the circuit, or it can use radioactive material to > > >> replace the electronic ion pump. Without the hydrogen the cell > > >> will put out energy for a long time. T. H. Moray's power tubes > > >> lasted for a few months. With the hydrogen this can be extended > > >> indefinately. > > >> > > >> There are many aspects to my research. Someday I will have to > > >> open a school to teach all that I have learned. > > >> > > >> -Bruce A. Perreault > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 05:38:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29982; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 05:38:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 05:38:21 -0800 Message-ID: <38DCCF0B.404B6E48@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:36:59 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Orgone Energy vs. Electricity References: <0.990f7f66.25650306@aol.com> <003a01bf9499$6569c180$d6a970d1@markross> <38DA0B1B.60A1@cyberportal.net> <38DADE36.F097AFC7@telusplanet.net> <38DC58A2.9B20D24A@telusplanet.net> <38DCAC9D.245D@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lVdy4.0.NK7.D5Ctu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: grin... no worries, it didn't seem to be esoteric to me.... perhaps its perceptual / interpretive thing. Lets face it, its likely there is an 'entry point' into physical reality, my bet is that Orgone is on the cusp of this entry point...hence its unusual properties. Just my opinion... Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > D Adams, > > Whoa! Why get into an esoteric explanation? > In my humble opinion this is why mainstream science > does not take these types of discoveries seriously. > We not to communicate their lauguage. > > -BAP > > D Adams wrote: > > > > see below comments > > > > D Adams wrote: > > > > > My understanding is that orgone is a promoridal energy force, likely > > > akin to the potentials > > > outlined in some of the hyperdimensional pundits floating about.... > > > Here we have a massless, > > > energy particle that dwells partly in what we perceive as our physical > > > reality and partly beyond > > > in another dimensional state. If orgone is the first essence of > > > energetic manifestation into > > > our physical reality or belongs to a superset of first essences, and > > > is in a truly non-polarized > > > form when it first 'appears', as I've long suspected, then when it > > > manifests and encounters > > > other polarized forms of energy in the aether it causes a reaction or > > > disturbance along certain > > > vectors. Its been often said that orgone can't accurately be measured > > > with standard, > > > conventional tools one might use for electricity or magnetism, etc... > > > but yet orgone can affect > > > the readings of a multimeter... so how and why does this occur? The > > > best explanation I've > > > seen to date comes from James Demeo and Alix Schiffer.... that > > > generally the existence and movement of orgone creates different kinds > > > of 'pressures' some of which can be detected electrically. > > > > > > Perhaps a simple and dirty allegory would be rubbing a plastic comb > > > through a cats fur.... the > > > end result is static electricity. Imagine the comb is the orgone > > > energy and the fur is the medium > > > in which it moves... so then orgone (the comb) is not the electricity, > > > but its movement through > > > the aether causes an electrical reaction to occur.... does this make > > > sense? > > > > > > Further, it appears as though orgone itself can be polarized, however > > > my gut feeling and > > > thoughts on this are that polarization occurs subsequent to its intial > > > pure state of unity, > > > positive and negative polarities appear to have been documented by > > > Schiffer and I believe > > > these states are separate from other states such as orgone turning > > > into DOR, etc. > > > > > > > > > Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > > > >> sparky wrote: > > >> > > > >> <> > > >> > > > > >> > > By the way, great comments, Gary. It is interesting to consider > > >> what this > > >> > > means in the relation between orgonomy and electronics. I see > > >> the two as > > >> > > intricately related, although exactly how is not completely > > >> clear to me > > >> > > yet. But, it keeps bugging me that orgone accumulators are > > >> simply > > >> > > capacitors, and that they tend to discharge electricity at a > > >> certain > > >> > > point of build up. > > >> > > > > >> > > Thus, what is the point where orgone becomes electricity, and > > >> vice versa? > > >> > > Are electricity and orgone the same, only much different states > > >> like > > >> > > plasma versus a solid? Such strange stuff. Any other original > > >> insights > > >> > > into the relationship between orgone and electricity anyone? > > >> > > >> What most people do not realize is that Reich had all sorts of > > >> radioactive > > >> materials laying around him lab. Reich states that high-voltage > > >> activates > > >> orgone energy. What appears to be happening is that the negative > > >> plate > > >> on > > >> an orgone accumulator attracts radon gas emitted from the > > >> radioactive > > >> material. Polonium is formed... this is a pure alpha emitter. This > > >> would > > >> tends to explain why his vacor tubes had to be soaked in orgone > > >> before > > >> they would function. > > >> > > >> Not too many people know this but his cloud busters had radioactive > > >> ores > > >> in their bases. Transportation of one of these cloudbusters got > > >> Reich > > >> thrown in prison. It was the transportation of "hazardous > > >> radioactive > > >> material" that got him thrown into jail and not because of his > > >> medical > > >> discoveries. > > >> > > >> The blackened outside laboratory walls, Reich called deadly orgone > > >> energy > > >> (DOR) had to have been decayed polonium, or lead-210. This stuff > > >> would > > >> make you sick after long exposure. > > >> > > >> So... behind all of Reich's who hah hah is a truth that is stranger > > >> than fiction. From this we can take his research further if we can > > >> admit to ourselves that nuclear science involved and if we can put > > >> aside for a moment the paranoid ramblings of the atomic era > > >> mind-set. > > >> > > >> -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 06:50:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09638; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:49:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:49:47 -0800 Sender: jack@pop.centurytel.net Message-ID: <38DCE051.288C41E0@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:50:41 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"Fjox.0.PM2.A8Dtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: Type-one error: if our goal is to reject all falsehood, then we invariably will reject many truths as well (DISBELIEVER) Charles Cagle wrote: You are declaring in advance that there is no way to discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). You may not have found a way but you are being presumptuous in supposing that either there is no way or that no one has found it. William Beaty wrote: INITIALLY there is not. Only experimental evidence determines the reality of a scientific claim. Chris O'Barr wrote: ... there might not even be a "right" in this world... Jack Smith writes: Should we enclose our current repetoire of design equations with the word "truth"? "Truth" is a sensation or emotion, useful for making snap life-and-death decisions; but it is in our heads, not "out there". Was it Thomas Huxley who described our minds as "reducing valves"? Our perceptions are limited, and the way we "sort things out" is a further limitation. Apparently, gracile and robust australopithecines co-existed for a span of time, as did Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons, and trebuchets and gun powder. Experiments are the basis for good design equations, and "the devil is in the details." Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 07:18:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA16310; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:18:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:18:15 -0800 Message-ID: <002701bf966d$54c40f40$6fb57ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Adams Test motor Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:18:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"hVIox1.0.l-3.tYDtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robert To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Adams Test motor >> > How long does the battery last? >Its still going and going! Voltage is staying at 12.60 to 12.80. I have 3 >hours run >time on it now. Is the unit still going? Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 08:14:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA27726; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:13:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:13:47 -0800 Message-ID: <000701bf9676$7f1ede60$f76ad9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: References: <002701bf966d$54c40f40$6fb57ed8@m> Subject: Re: Adams Test motor Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:23:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"8-9bM.0.3n6.wMEtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I shut the motor off after 6 hours running. The voltage on the battery after shutdown was 12.78. I still want to run more tests though..such as amp draw from the motor verses emf output from the coils. I want to drain the battery down to below 12 volts and see if battery will build back up while the motor is running. It may be that the motor is just maintaining the battery voltage. I want to change out the micro switch to a magnetic type switch. The manual switch is taking a beating, it wont last long. Regards, Robert H. Calloway ----- Original Message ----- From: mrand@access To: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 9:18 AM Subject: Re: Adams Test motor > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 11:14 AM > Subject: Re: Adams Test motor > > > >> > > How long does the battery last? > >Its still going and going! Voltage is staying at 12.60 to 12.80. I have 3 > >hours run > >time on it now. > > Is the unit still going? > > Regards, Michael > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 08:54:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA05142; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:54:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:54:30 -0800 Message-ID: <007701bf967a$c99317a0$6fb57ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Adams Test motor Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:54:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nMZXo1.0.FG1.6zEtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robert To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, March 25, 2000 8:05 AM Subject: Re: Adams Test motor >I shut the motor off after 6 hours running. The voltage on the battery after >shutdown was 12.78. I still want to run more tests though..such as amp draw >from the motor verses emf output from the coils. I want to drain the battery >down to below 12 volts and see if battery will build back up while the motor >is running. It may be that the motor is just maintaining the battery >voltage. I want to change out the micro switch to a magnetic type switch. >The manual switch is >taking a beating, it wont last long. Regards, Robert H. Calloway Thank you. Looking forward to hearing the results of your experiment modifications. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 09:32:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA13973; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:31:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:31:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:31:49 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Gravity Capacitor, hoax (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cZWXa3.0.CQ3.EWFtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FORWARDED MESSAGE --------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello, I will say to all people believers or not. I do not care if you do or don't believe me. Because all people will believe soon. It start when I report success to Bill, because I know he can help me and suggest to me how to do different testings. And he did help me allot, still do. And I thank him . Then it was suggested to make a extra page for my successive experiment linked from the patent page. I thought positively because people can do their tests as well and improve or find new things about that strange capacitor. After all is not secret any more ( starting with 2 friends and my family who have seen the capacitor live )I am not always above the patent testing it. I Also have job, family, (problems and problems) time is very valuable thing for me as for everyone. I know that the device is not easy to construct it. It takes time. That is why people are afraid to start making it (is much easier to call it a hoax and put it away, and life is ok again). If it could be done in 5 minutes then none would write mail saying that is a hoax BEFORE HE CONSTRUCT IT. So All I am saying to you is stop thinking negatively about something before actually see it and test it, Because has allot of question marks that patent. Also do not make theories that maybe are not involved with the effect. I even don't know yet what is hapenning, I will know when I 'll be able to complete a set of tests. {{{Also I can't believe that none has ever build that capacitor at the past (do you?). I am sure that some people did it and today are dead. (or in other planets, or they travel it "time" somewhere accidentally???}}}} All my information and construction details, as well as live testing of the device ( i hope I will include a fling chair with a person on it) will be inside a video tape which I will make copies and send to all TV stations I can. ( of course I will cover my face in video ) BUILD THE CAPACITOR AND SEE. -------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 09:49:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16720; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:48:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:48:26 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:31:26 -0500 Subject: Re: fake discoveries Message-ID: <20000325.123658.-398967.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,21-28 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"vkzrd1.0.954.flFtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Beaty wrote: >Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new discoveries, we >must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This can't be >helped. Charles Cagle responded: >Wrong. It can be helped. As long as we insist on doing science in >an unscientific manner then, of course, it can't be helped. But >there is a cure for being hoaxed. Have you ever heard of Godel's Theorem? It states that ALL sufficiently strong formal systems are either incomplete or inconsistent. In 1931 Kurt Godel proved this theorem, mathematically, and no one has been able to refute it. Since science follows a formal system, that is, logic, then it follows that WE CANNOT ALWAYS BE SURE THAT A PROPOSITION IS TRUE OR FALSE. If we modify science to include all truth then it must become inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. Thus, Mr. Beaty is correct, and Mr. Cagle is wrong. Science cannot always find all the answers, it cannot explain all phenomena. No matter how hard you try, if you follow science faithfully you will miss a true proposition on occasion. I sincerely believe that many free energy and antigravity propositions (ideas, theories, etc.) fall into this category. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- A sign on a Tennessee highway: "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 09:54:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18538; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:54:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:54:17 -0800 Message-ID: <009401bf9683$22c0b500$6fb57ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:54:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"5z8WB3.0.UX4.8rFtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Allan Alderson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 7:19 PM Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:16:28 -0800 (PST), William Beaty wrote: >> >>Has anyone here tried building http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html ? >>I suspected a hoax, so I never had the time to expend the large amount of >>labor required > [snip] > >I started and got to about an inch in 'depth' (wow, it does take a long >time.) It's made out of Al cooking foil and 'laminex' (used as kitchen >bench tops), bolted together with four long bolts. I've put the output >from a TV trippIer connected to it but when it shorted- out BADLY, I put >it aside. >Perhaps prematurely! Now, where's my carona dope . . . When did you perform this experiment? Did you construct the electrodes in segments, or a single ring? >When I first saw the design, it was from a friend in Tasmania who sent me >an A4 sheet with info on the 1940s. It included everything on your site >plus a photograph of a saucer-shaped craft hovering about ten meters off >the ground along with its 'logo'. Various people in uniform were also in >the scene with one officer standing in front of the camera looking away. I >looked carefully at the shadow it was casting and it sure looked right. >The craft was not tethered. Did the 1940 info use the same construction materials? >P.S. What is a Fitzeous' Condenser? My web search did not turn up any useful information. Regards, Michael > - Allan. >---- ---- ---- ---- > >Reply with a 'text-only' message. >adsaa@turboweb.net.au > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 10:05:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA21051; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:04:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:04:45 -0800 Message-ID: <009f01bf9684$97715660$6fb57ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor, hoax (fwd) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:04:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"JgOmj.0.q85.y-Ftu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, March 25, 2000 9:23 AM Subject: Gravity Capacitor, hoax (fwd) > > >FORWARDED MESSAGE >> >All my information and construction details, as well as live testing of the >device ( i hope I will include a fling chair with a person on it) >will be inside a video tape which I will make copies and send to all TV >stations I can. ( of course I will cover my face in video ) I would be interested in seeing your construction and live testing of the device video! Can one be purchased? >BUILD THE CAPACITOR AND SEE. When you have the time, can you answer the following questions I have: 1) Are there as-built drawings on how this particular unit was constructed? 2) What materials were used? Where purchased? 3) What was the estimated cost for construction? 4) Can you build another unit for purchase for other researchers? Regards, Michael >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 10:48:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31451; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:48:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:48:06 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000325134816.009808e0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 13:48:21 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? In-Reply-To: <20000324.203025.-377669.5.tv@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"QvfqS1.0.Kh7.cdGtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: what are these sites? At 08:28 PM 3/24/00 -0800, you wrote: >I found seven sites with same info as Bill B's site. > >It is worth a try but April 1 coming so I am little weary. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 10:54:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA00439; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:53:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:53:51 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000325135239.00984560@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 13:54:04 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor, hoax (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Pu78u2.0.l6.-iGtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >All my information and construction details, as well as live testing of the >device ( i hope I will include a fling chair with a person on it) >will be inside a video tape which I will make copies and send to all TV >stations I can. ( of course I will cover my face in video ) why would you send it to tv? everything that ever airs on tv is changed in some way, or never shown at all. and if it's changed, how would people be able to replicate it? >BUILD THE CAPACITOR AND SEE. that would be hard, seeing as how it requires so much time. btw Bill, i couldn't find any dental supply houses nearby, do you know of any mail order places? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 11:07:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04212; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:06:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:06:24 -0800 Message-ID: <38DD0E40.7FFF@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:06:40 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Vesperman CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Fwd: Patent Office revokes Blacklight Power's Pat. 6,024,935 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y9bTx.0.b11.luGtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gary, If they made "499 claims" then they opened their selves up! All it takes is someone to challenge one of those claims with a previous patent and Blacklight's entire patent would be voided. If one claim is proven to be scientifically unfounded then the entire patent becomes voided. There are four-hundred and forty-four chances for their patent getting voided. They have a full year to patent any of the claims from the patent that is in public print. Simply ut... they got greedy! -Bruce A. Perreault Mike, I checked IBM's patent server at http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/6024935 Blacklight's patent is no longer there. I then checked for patents 6024934 and 6024936. Those two patents were both issued on Feb. 15, same day as Blacklight's patent, and they both are on-line. By the way, 6024934 is on a new Japanese method of manufacturing a lithium battery compound. This appears to be a dirty trick the US Patent Office has pulled on Blacklight Power. That was an extremely comprehensive patent with 499 claims, if I remember correctly. A patent is supposed to be confidential until actually issued. Now Blacklight's technology is in the public domain without patent protection! The other possibility of course is that Blacklight's patent is in fact scientifically flawed. This episode comes very soon after the raid, without a search warrant, on inventor John Hutchison's apartment in Canada. Below are two emails I have on the Hutchison raid. It may be that the energy suppression people have become alarmed at the recent activity in new sources of energy and have decided to take action. I wonder who will be their next targets, if any. I hope we don't end up with some fatal "accidents" in the next few months. We already have seen in the last few years several suspicious deaths of inventors of new sources of energy. Are you aware that I have a long file on suppression of energy I can forward to you? It's about 50 pages. Blacklight Power's Web site is at http://www.blacklightpower.com . The US government willingly spends billions of dollars subsidizing nuclear power, fossil fuels, solar, wind, biomass, and hot fusion. It doesn't spend one cent taking a chance on other possible new sources of energy. Then when a promising new source comes along, rather than be supportive, it tries to suppress it. In 29 other countries, charge cluster technology (formerly known as "cold fusion") works; but not in the US according to the US Department of Energy. There does indeed appears to be something wrong with the US government. Gary -----Original Message----- From: MIKE92144@aol.com To: vman@skylink.net Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Blacklight Power's Pat. 6,024,935; Hi, Gary, I just heard a rumor that the Patent Office has, or is considering, revoking Mills' blacklight patent, due to pressure or whatever, and that the examiner who handled it has been fired. Is any of this true? Thanks. Mike The Mike Jarmus Program www.njpeople.com (First Hutchison raid email) -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Bailey To: BCC: Energy_Send_,List Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 2:48 PM Subject: police raid on John Hutchison's apartment The website below summarizes the police raid on John Hutchison's apartment last Friday!!! Searching for guns, my ass!!!... Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:15:16 -0600 From: Mark Solis X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: visionary@bc.sympatico.ca, mmclaren@worldwise.ca, ptines@home.com, bctill@ican.net, cvegan@home.com, billb@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com, BrendaRo@attachmate.com, gldseason@home.com, gldseason@access1.net, gop@prodigy.net, winslo92@potsdam.edu, john@technews.co.za, jstein@triageinc.com, jdo@ucalgary.ca, 4.gears@sympatico.ca, benneficialproducts@cnnet.com, pgb@padrak.com, Michael.S.Lundberg@gd-is.com, orion@cnnw.net, heffect@infinet.net, soliton@bellsouth.net, masolis@bellsouth.net Subject: News Flash X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-Rcpt-To: pgb@padrak.com Greetings All, I have an urgent news update at John Hutchison's Web Page http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/index.html <--------- Your attention is appreciated. Yours truly, Mark A. Solis masolis@bellsouth.net Webmaster for John Hutchison (Second email) -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Bailey To: BCC: Energy_Send_,List Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 2:48 PM Subject: police raid on John Hutchison's apartment The website below summarizes the police raid on John Hutchison's apartment last Friday!!! Searching for guns, my ass!!!... Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:15:16 -0600 From: Mark Solis X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: visionary@bc.sympatico.ca, mmclaren@worldwise.ca, ptines@home.com, bctill@ican.net, cvegan@home.com, billb@eskimo.com, jdecker@keelynet.com, BrendaRo@attachmate.com, gldseason@home.com, gldseason@access1.net, gop@prodigy.net, winslo92@potsdam.edu, john@technews.co.za, jstein@triageinc.com, jdo@ucalgary.ca, 4.gears@sympatico.ca, benneficialproducts@cnnet.com, pgb@padrak.com, Michael.S.Lundberg@gd-is.com, orion@cnnw.net, heffect@infinet.net, soliton@bellsouth.net, masolis@bellsouth.net Subject: News Flash X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-Rcpt-To: pgb@padrak.com Greetings All, I have an urgent news update at John Hutchison's Web Page http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/index.html <--------- Your attention is appreciated. Yours truly, Mark A. Solis masolis@bellsouth.net Webmaster for John Hutchison From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 11:26:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10796; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:26:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:26:00 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Adams Test motor Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:38:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20000325193809437.AAA66@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"sqgn22.0.be2.7BHtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob writes: >I shut the motor off after 6 hours running. The voltage on the battery after >shutdown was 12.78. I still want to run more tests though..such as amp draw >from the motor verses emf output from the coils. I want to drain the battery >down to below 12 volts and see if battery will build back up while the motor >is running. It may be that the motor is just maintaining the battery >voltage. I want to change out the micro switch to a magnetic type switch. >The manual switch is >taking a beating, it wont last long. Regards, Robert H. Calloway What you've done so far is pretty amazing, Bob. The manual switch is also causing some energy drain as well. There are optical switches on floppy drives that you might want to consider. The power drain might be lower overall. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 11:59:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18452; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:59:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:59:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:59:00 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor, hoax (fwd) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000325135239.00984560@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HaQ4L1.0.8W4.7gHtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, Rymel wrote: > that would be hard, seeing as how it requires so much time. btw Bill, i > couldn't find any dental supply houses nearby, do you know of any mail > order places? I called around locally, not remembering the place I got the foil from, but they all said "we cannot sell to non-dentists". I'll have to try some more. At least I can try to find where THEY obtain the stuff. The inventor suggests www.advent-rm.com for those in europe. Spensive, though. If somebody finds a cheap source of foil and makes a diecut master, they will be ready to sell prototyping materials when this thing is verified by others here. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 12:41:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA28547; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:40:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:40:48 -0800 Message-ID: <38DD2451.6BBC@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:40:49 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: The most trying time for this researcher... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T5clt2.0.yz6.FHItu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear List Members, The next few months will be the most critical moments in my entire life. All my research has now become highly defined. It is now time to "put up or shut up" in my mind. It is do or die to me as far as my public life is concerned. If I fail in my attempt to bring a practical product to the world then many people will never let this down. I would have no choice but to go underground with my research and hide my face from my peers. This would be most distressing because I look forward everyday communicating with like minds. This would be a very lonely life for me. Don't read into this post more than it is. The last few weeks have been truly exiting for me. Everything appears to be falling into place. You know you are nearing success when the sharks begin to circle. So far I've managed not to get bitten, knock on wood. I would like to take this moment in time to thank all of my supportors. Yes, even you skeptics... it has been you folks who have had the courage to ask the tough questions that have prepared me for what I am to face if and when my work gets announced to joe and jane public. I am forever grateful to both my supportors and critics. Like is said; "que sera sera" (what ever will be will be). Whatever happens... it has been a pleasure to serve. Warm Regards, Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 14:33:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22962; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:33:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:33:10 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000325.123658.-398967.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> References: <20000325.123658.-398967.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:34:35 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: fake discoveries Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"ANp8X2.0.gc5.bwJtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Bill Beaty wrote: >>Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new discoveries, we >>must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This can't be >>helped. > >Charles Cagle responded: >>Wrong. It can be helped. As long as we insist on doing science in >>an unscientific manner then, of course, it can't be helped. But >>there is a cure for being hoaxed. > > Have you ever heard of Godel's Theorem? It states that ALL >sufficiently >strong formal systems are either incomplete or inconsistent. In 1931 >Kurt Godel proved this theorem, mathematically, and no one has been able >to refute it. Since science follows a formal system, that is, logic, >then it follows that WE CANNOT ALWAYS BE SURE THAT A PROPOSITION IS TRUE >OR FALSE. Absolute nonsense. Science imperfectly uses logic. And you and quite a few other people have made an illogical connection between Godel's Theorem and science. Godel's Theorem is a variant of Russell's Paradox. Virtually every modern so-called 'scientific discipline' is tightly wound up in empiricism and its associated inductive logic. One cannot derive certainties with induction (or a posteriori argument). Certainties can only arise out of a priorism (deductive logic). >If we modify science to include all truth then it must become >inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. No. Not to scientists but rather to pseudoscientists and practitioners of pathological science. Science is about knowledge. Knowledge falls into the two subcategories of true and false. Modern science has eschewed the role of reasonable epistemological tests to provide a quality index on the knowledge generated by so-called 'scientific' activities. > Thus, Mr. Beaty >is correct, and Mr. Cagle is wrong. Thus, 'nothing' would be more appropriate. Your conclusion is just more nonsense. > Science cannot always find all the >answers, it cannot explain all phenomena. You're right. Science 'as you know it' cannot find the truth. If most scientists weren't well past their ears in pathological science then things would be different. What so-called 'scientists' have consistently failed to do is to examine in detail the elements of the processes which they use to generate 'knowledge'. A posteriorism (or empiricism) works wonderfully well when it is employed in the 'tweak and fiddle' method or process of technology generation and improvement because it uses the direct feedback loop of the experimental method. A posteriorism used in this fashion becomes self referential which is just what you need to do experiments where the experimenter modifies that which he experiments upon. But it cannot yield certainties when the flow of data or contact between the observed and the observer is only one way. > No matter how hard you try, if >you follow science faithfully you will miss a true proposition on >occasion. I sincerely believe that many free energy and antigravity >propositions (ideas, theories, etc.) fall into this category. > > -Tom Grimes Then you need to learn how to do science correctly. It isn't an 8-5 process but rather a way of life (doing it correctly, that is). C. Cagle http://www.singtech.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 14:56:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29315; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:56:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:56:05 -0800 Message-ID: <38DD51BE.98E4FB0A@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:54:38 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The most trying time for this researcher... References: <38DD2451.6BBC@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jo0ef3.0.y97.4GKtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: geez... Bruce, cut yourself some slack.... the worst thing I think you can do is treat yourself in such a rigid manner.... just do your best, if it doesn't work out its not the end of the world. You'll make a lot more progress in the long run and feel better too if you just pick yourself up, take a deep breath, relax and try again. Any one who would think less of you for trying something that didnt work out is likely not someone you need to worry about in the first place... best of luck. Don Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > Dear List Members, > > The next few months will be the most critical moments in > my entire life. All my research has now become highly > defined. It is now time to "put up or shut up" in my mind. > It is do or die to me as far as my public life is > concerned. If I fail in my attempt to bring a practical > product to the world then many people will never let this > down. I would have no choice but to go underground with my > research and hide my face from my peers. This would be most > distressing because I look forward everyday communicating > with like minds. This would be a very lonely life for me. > > Don't read into this post more than it is. The last few weeks > have been truly exiting for me. Everything appears to be > falling into place. You know you are nearing success when the > sharks begin to circle. So far I've managed not to get bitten, > knock on wood. > > I would like to take this moment in time to thank all of my > supportors. Yes, even you skeptics... it has been you folks > who have had the courage to ask the tough questions that have > prepared me for what I am to face if and when my work gets > announced to joe and jane public. I am forever grateful to > both my supportors and critics. > > Like is said; "que sera sera" (what ever will be will be). > Whatever happens... it has been a pleasure to serve. > > Warm Regards, Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 15:05:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA32712; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:05:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:05:09 -0800 Message-ID: <38DD53DD.751480CD@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:03:42 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries References: <38DCE051.288C41E0@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"30ORI.0.z-7.bOKtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: perhaps the only safe way to proceed sometimes is to acknowledge that ultimately we really don't 'know' much of anything we just try to inadequately describe what we think we know and what we don't know. I suspect its possible that Charles could just as likely be 'right' as anyone else and perhaps the real value to be derived from this dialogue is not anyone's perception of which ego 'wins' the debate, but rather from the different sides acknowledging alternative perceptions and allowng themselves to open their mind to new possibilities.... and obviously taking advantage of any functional and practical thought processes that come.... just my two cents Taylor J. Smith wrote: > William Beaty wrote: > > Type-one error: if our goal is to reject all falsehood, then we > invariably will reject many truths as well (DISBELIEVER) > > Charles Cagle wrote: > > You are declaring in advance that there is no way to > discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). You may not have found a > way but you are being presumptuous in supposing that either there is > no way or that no one has found it. > > William Beaty wrote: > > INITIALLY there is not. > Only experimental evidence determines the reality of a scientific claim. > > Chris O'Barr wrote: > > ... there might not even be a "right" in this world... > > Jack Smith writes: > > Should we enclose our current repetoire of design equations > with the word "truth"? "Truth" is a sensation or emotion, useful > for making snap life-and-death decisions; but it is in our heads, > not "out there". > > Was it Thomas Huxley who described our minds as "reducing valves"? > Our perceptions are limited, and the way we "sort things out" > is a further limitation. > > Apparently, gracile and robust australopithecines co-existed > for a span of time, as did Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons, and > trebuchets and gun powder. Experiments are the basis for good > design equations, and "the devil is in the details." > > Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 15:12:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03189; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:12:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:12:03 -0800 Message-ID: <002401bf96af$34b53fc0$3fd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000325.123658.-398967.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:09:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"15-sQ3.0.kn.3VKtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 12:31 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > Bill Beaty wrote: > >Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new discoveries, we > >must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This can't be > >helped. > > Charles Cagle responded: > >Wrong. It can be helped. As long as we insist on doing science in > >an unscientific manner then, of course, it can't be helped. But > >there is a cure for being hoaxed. > > Have you ever heard of Godel's Theorem? It states that ALL sufficiently > strong formal systems are either incomplete or inconsistent. In 1931 > Kurt Godel proved this theorem, mathematically, and no one has been able > to refute it. Since science follows a formal system, that is, logic, > then it follows that WE CANNOT ALWAYS BE SURE THAT A PROPOSITION IS TRUE > OR FALSE. If we modify science to include all truth then it must become > inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. Thus, Mr. Beaty > is correct, and Mr. Cagle is wrong. Science cannot always find all the > answers, it cannot explain all phenomena. No matter how hard you try, if > you follow science faithfully you will miss a true proposition on > occasion. I sincerely believe that many free energy and antigravity > propositions (ideas, theories, etc.) fall into this category. I disagree. We don't understand science. So from our scientific perspective, many things don't "make sense". The fact that we can't currently explain somthing, doesnt mean it doesn't have an explanation. Our science is incomplete and incosistent, science is not (in a logical world). > > -Tom Grimes > > mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com > ----------------------------------------- > A sign on a Tennessee highway: > "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 15:35:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29218; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:33:56 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:33:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003c01bf96b2$41306920$3fd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000325.123658.-398967.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:31:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lh6Pt.0.Q87.YpKtu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You act as if you have such a grand understanding of science. I would like to meet someone who can truly fathom the many dimensions that must me considered. Who has seen the movie "Contact", with Jodie Foster? Remember when the old guy shows her the plans in three dimensions. Would she have ever stumbled upon that simple, yet critical idea on her own? There is most likely much, much, much more than meets the eye. All we can do is speculate, because even if we did have the explanation for everything, we couldn't know whether we know or not. ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Cagle To: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 4:34 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > >Bill Beaty wrote: > >>Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new discoveries, we > >>must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This can't be > >>helped. > > > >Charles Cagle responded: > >>Wrong. It can be helped. As long as we insist on doing science in > >>an unscientific manner then, of course, it can't be helped. But > >>there is a cure for being hoaxed. > > > > Have you ever heard of Godel's Theorem? It states that ALL > >sufficiently > >strong formal systems are either incomplete or inconsistent. In 1931 > >Kurt Godel proved this theorem, mathematically, and no one has been able > >to refute it. Since science follows a formal system, that is, logic, > >then it follows that WE CANNOT ALWAYS BE SURE THAT A PROPOSITION IS TRUE > >OR FALSE. > > Absolute nonsense. Science imperfectly uses logic. And you and > quite a few other people have made an illogical connection between > Godel's Theorem and science. Godel's Theorem is a variant of > Russell's Paradox. Virtually every modern so-called 'scientific > discipline' is tightly wound up in empiricism and its associated > inductive logic. One cannot derive certainties with induction (or a > posteriori argument). Certainties can only arise out of a priorism > (deductive logic). > > >If we modify science to include all truth then it must become > >inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. > > No. Not to scientists but rather to pseudoscientists and > practitioners of pathological science. > > Science is about knowledge. Knowledge falls into the two > subcategories of true and false. Modern science has eschewed the > role of reasonable epistemological tests to provide a quality index > on the knowledge generated by so-called 'scientific' activities. > > > > Thus, Mr. Beaty > >is correct, and Mr. Cagle is wrong. > > Thus, 'nothing' would be more appropriate. Your conclusion is just > more nonsense. > > > Science cannot always find all the > >answers, it cannot explain all phenomena. > > You're right. Science 'as you know it' cannot find the truth. If > most scientists weren't well past their ears in pathological science > then things would be different. What so-called 'scientists' have > consistently failed to do is to examine in detail the elements of the > processes which they use to generate 'knowledge'. > > A posteriorism (or empiricism) works wonderfully well when it is > employed in the 'tweak and fiddle' method or process of technology > generation and improvement because it uses the direct feedback loop > of the experimental method. A posteriorism used in this fashion > becomes self referential which is just what you need to do > experiments where the experimenter modifies that which he experiments > upon. But it cannot yield certainties when the flow of data or > contact between the observed and the observer is only one way. > > > No matter how hard you try, if > >you follow science faithfully you will miss a true proposition on > >occasion. I sincerely believe that many free energy and antigravity > >propositions (ideas, theories, etc.) fall into this category. > > > > -Tom Grimes > > Then you need to learn how to do science correctly. It isn't an > 8-5 process but rather a way of life (doing it correctly, that is). > > C. Cagle > > http://www.singtech.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 16:14:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA15377; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:14:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 16:14:26 -0800 Message-ID: <38DD5674.E4D0633F@dabney.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:14:44 -0600 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Test motor References: <20000325193809437.AAA66@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UegTX3.0.9m3.YPLtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael T Huffman wrote: > What you've done so far is pretty amazing, Bob. The manual switch is also > causing some energy drain as well. There are optical switches on floppy > drives that you might want to consider. The power drain might be lower overall. This is an excellent idea. Digi-Key is the only company I've found that carries hall effect sensors. They're only $1.69. I believe the unipolar type is the right one for this application. There are several different kinds, I'll probably get more than one and see which works best. -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 18:22:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA07437; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:21:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:21:42 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Test motor Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:21:13 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <002701bf966d$54c40f40$6fb57ed8@m> <000701bf9676$7f1ede60$f76ad9d0@58hde> In-Reply-To: <000701bf9676$7f1ede60$f76ad9d0@58hde> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA07409 Resent-Message-ID: <"EIgtX.0.0q1.rGNtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:23:12 -0600, Robert wrote: [snip] >is running. It may be that the motor is just maintaining the battery >voltage. I want to change out the micro switch to a magnetic type switch. >The manual switch is >taking a beating, it wont last long. Regards, Robert H. Calloway [snip] When you get the switch fixed, you should let it run for weeks. You also have the battery "shock" effect to eliminate (which is why I suggested 10 x the normal energy content of the battery). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 18:25:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08531; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:25:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:25:13 -0800 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:23:39 -0500 Subject: Re: fake discoveries Message-ID: <20000325.212559.1164.2.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-77,80 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"9-pl4.0.C52.8KNtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: After all, by Godel's definition, his own theorem must be considered to be incomplete. Dave On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:09:42 -0500 "Chris O'Barr" writes: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 12:31 PM > Subject: Re: fake discoveries > > > > Bill Beaty wrote: > > >Just so onlookers know: in order to avoid rejecting new > discoveries, we > > >must intentionally lay ourselves open to repeated hoaxes. This > can't be > > >helped. > > > > Charles Cagle responded: > > >Wrong. It can be helped. As long as we insist on doing science > in > > >an unscientific manner then, of course, it can't be helped. But > > >there is a cure for being hoaxed. > > > > Have you ever heard of Godel's Theorem? It states that ALL > sufficiently > > strong formal systems are either incomplete or inconsistent. In > 1931 > > Kurt Godel proved this theorem, mathematically, and no one has > been able > > to refute it. Since science follows a formal system, that is, > logic, > > then it follows that WE CANNOT ALWAYS BE SURE THAT A PROPOSITION > IS TRUE > > OR FALSE. If we modify science to include all truth then it must > become > > inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. Thus, Mr. > Beaty > > is correct, and Mr. Cagle is wrong. Science cannot always find > all the > > answers, it cannot explain all phenomena. No matter how hard you > try, if > > you follow science faithfully you will miss a true proposition on > > occasion. I sincerely believe that many free energy and > antigravity > > propositions (ideas, theories, etc.) fall into this category. > > I disagree. We don't understand science. So from our scientific > perspective, many things don't "make sense". The fact that we can't > currently explain somthing, doesnt mean it doesn't have an > explanation. Our > science is incomplete and incosistent, science is not (in a logical > world). > > > > -Tom Grimes > > > > mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com > > ----------------------------------------- > > A sign on a Tennessee highway: > > "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is > impassable." > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > ================================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://dave_tingley.tripod.com "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." --Thomas Jefferson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 19:33:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23793; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:33:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:33:28 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:22:56 -0500 Subject: Re: fake discoveries Message-ID: <20000325.222304.-437087.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,7-14,25-34,36-42,52-53,57-61,63,65-66,70-71,77-84 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"dtlMJ.0.bp5.8KOtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles Cagle wrote: >Absolute nonsense. Science imperfectly uses logic. And you and >quite a few other people have made an illogical connection between >Godel's Theorem and science. Perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently clear. I am not applying Godel's Theorem to the observational part of science, only to the logic system that we use to "understand" or hypothesize about observations. >Virtually every modern so-called 'scientific >discipline' is tightly wound up in empiricism and its associated >inductive logic. One cannot derive certainties with induction (or a >posteriori argument). Certainties can only arise out of a priorism >(deductive logic). I don't follow you here, it seems to me that neither system gives certainties all the time. If something has been observed, you cannot be sure that the explanation you proposed is correct. Explanations are better called models because you should be able to use that model to make useful predictions (and test them, by observing the results of an experiment) even if that is not what "really" happens. Certainties most definitely do not always arise from deductive logic because the assumptions on which it is based may be flawed. I don't know about you, but I was taught that the scientific method was observation and hypothesis. That method uses both forms of logic. Since logic is used, and it IS a formal system, it is subject to Godel's Theorem. I wrote: >If we modify science to include all truth then it must become >inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. Charles Cagle wrote: >No. Not to scientists but rather to pseudoscientists and >practitioners of pathological science. Pathological science? Huh? OK, who on this list wants science to become inconsistent? A show of hands, please. >Science is about knowledge. Knowledge falls into the two >subcategories of true and false. Modern science has eschewed the >role of reasonable epistemological tests to provide a quality index >on the knowledge generated by so-called 'scientific' activities. The first two sentences I agree with wholeheartedly. What I have been saying is that within the confines of a consistent system of logic you cannot establish the truth-value of all theorems (propositions). Science can be expanded to include specific truths that are physically proven correct, but only by changing the "rules" or axioms. For example, consider quantum theory. It explains a lot, but not everything. Accepted axioms of science had to be changed to accomodate this theory, this model, because many experiments have shown it to be a useful "truth". It may not, in fact, accurately describe what is going on, but it is as close as we have gotten so far. The last sentence is quite obviously an opinion, and I do not hold yours. If the current idea of sufficient proof does not sway you, then that is your own problem. There is a point at which skepticism becomes so extreme that is disbelief. Chris O'Barr wrote: > I disagree. We don't understand science. So from our scientific >perspective, many things don't "make sense". The fact that we can't >currently explain somthing, doesnt mean it doesn't have an explanation. Our >science is incomplete and incosistent, science is not (in a logical world). I did not mean that it doesn't have an explanation, but simply that deductive logic is not going to find all the answers. If something doesn't make sense, wonderful! It means another opportunity to expand the realm of knowledge (science). I am the first to admit I'm not an expert on either logic theory or philosophy, but read "The Emperor's New Mind" and "Shadows of the Mind" (both by Roger Penrose) for a more in-depth discussion of the application of Godel's Theorem. Those books contain a very readable exploration of the autor's ideas regarding artificial intelligence and quantum gravity (and the connection between the two). -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- A sign on a Tennessee highway: "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 19:43:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26334; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:42:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 19:42:50 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Patent Office revokes Blacklight Power's Pat. 6,024,935 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:42:11 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38DD0E40.7FFF@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38DD0E40.7FFF@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA26309 Resent-Message-ID: <"8Cb2u1.0.NR6.vSOtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:06:40 -0500, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: >Gary, > >If they made "499 claims" then they opened their selves >up! All it takes is someone to challenge one of those >Mike, > >I checked IBM's patent server at >http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/6024935 > >Blacklight's patent is no longer there. I then checked for patents [snip] This appears to be a simple glitch on the IBM patent server. The patent itself can still be found at the USPTO patent server at: http://164.195.100.11/netahtml/srchnum.htm . If you wish to be able to view the TIFF images, you will probably need to download and install a TIFF plugin first. I recommend http://www.mieweb.com/alternatiff/ however you may wish to check-out the other recommended software at: http://www.uspto.gov/web/menu/viewers.html . Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 20:04:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30912; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:04:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:04:03 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:27:59 -0500 Subject: Re: fake discoveries Message-ID: <20000325.225251.-437087.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"yns1Y.0.nY7.nmOtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:23:39 -0500 dave.tingley@juno.com writes: > After all, by Godel's definition, his own theorem must be considered > to be incomplete. No, Godel's Theorem applies only to formal systems, not theorems. Theorems are derived from axioms inside formal systems. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ----------------------------------------- A sign on a Tennessee highway: "Take notice: when this sign is underwater, this road is impassable." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 22:12:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25112; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:12:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:12:05 -0800 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:12:34 -0800 Subject: Tinfoil.com/"Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Message-ID: <20000325.221247.-340999.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-13,15-16,18-23,25-28 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"CuITa.0.H86.qeQtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Where did the mystery experimenter get his tin foil ? One possible place I will call on Monday: Brooklyn Foil Inc. 196-T Diamond St. Brooklyn, NY 112222 phone: 718-389-5180 fax: 718-389-6690 Checkout www.tinfoil.com. Does not sell tin foil but interesting anyway. Early Edison phonograph recordings were on tinfoil cylinders coated with wax. Neat old stuff ! Notice the combination of wax and tin. Another application of tin foil http://www.morethanconquerors.simplenet.com/MCF/foil.htm. Weird stuff ! Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 23:38:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA05436; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:37:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:37:39 -0800 Message-ID: <20000326073707.17440.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.107] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:37:07 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"BmuRT3.0.mK1.2vRtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few really ASK. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown answers they have already shaped in their own minds - justifications, confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind." M Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs of the human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and approximate. ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, and if you want to completely understand one, you must understand all, which is obviously impossible. The reason why science works so well is that approximations are possible. You can describe an individual or group of phenomena "approximately", neglecting other phenomena which are not as relevant. By doing this, one or two aspects may explain many, without understanding all at once. The scientific method is based on this idea: all theories and models are merely approximations of the "true" nature of things, however, the error involved is usually small enough that such an approach is meaningful. As an example: particle physics does not usually take the gravitational interactive forces into consideration, because of the negligible effect on resulting data. However, by ignoring these forces, there will be resulting error in results, even if this is very small, and future, more accurate theories of particles will have to include them. Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and over time become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent a complete and final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of Nature" are mutable, destined to be replaced by more accurate laws when the theories are improved. Theories are almost always based on arbitrary parameters or "fundamental constants", in other words, on quantities whose values are not explained by the theory, but are rather determined empirically and are merely accepted "a priori". Quantum theory cannot explain the value used for the mass of an electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons charge, or relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no further explanation. Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations of the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a highly thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - you must read and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, particularly chapter 18 - Interpenetration - paraphrased to some extent here), they should be explained, one by one, in future theories as these theories are more and more accurately detailed and improved. It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some unexplained features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will require the acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts which constitute the scientific language. We will all reach what I call the language barrier at some point, and more quickly so in fields which require highly specialized language such as science. To illustrate, consider a dictionary - the word "go" - to move along, to travel, to proceed, as this car can "go" 90 MPH. OK, lets look up these: "Move" - to "change" place or position, to "stir", to "pass" or "go" in any manner or direction. "change" - to cause to turn or "pass", "pass" - to "move" forward, to "go", to "proceed", "Travel" - to "pass", or make a journey, to "go" from place to place..., to "proceed" or "advance", "advance" - to "move" or "go" forward, to "proceed", "Proceed" - to "move", "pass", "advance" or "go" on..., beginning to get tired of the same words over and over? to understand one, you must understand another, to understand the other, you must understand the first....etc, etc, ad infinitum... (language, in this sense, mimics science) ALL language (yes, even "scientific") ultimately is HIGHLY, HIGHLY subjective, and this is something that will never be overcome until and unless, we achieve direct thought transference. How would you explain what an orange tasted like to someone who had never eaten one? Words are the same, I can NEVER, no matter how much you explain it, know EXACTLY what you mean by a certain word or phrase, much less thoughts expressed with them. ALL (i.e. every last darned one of them) thought structures, including logic, will suffer from this problem (to use words themselves you are using "a priori". Words are "a priori". In this sense there is no deductive logic). To say that you can PROVE anything logically (whether deductive or inductive) is ridiculous. Perhaps you can be "almost" certain, but there will ALWAYS be an element of doubt. There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up these assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already shot as it is), I'll save for later. TR >Charles Cagle wrote: > >Absolute nonsense. Science imperfectly uses logic. And you and > >quite a few other people have made an illogical connection between > >Godel's Theorem and science. > > Perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently clear. I am not applying >Godel's Theorem to the observational part of science, only to the logic >system that we use to "understand" or hypothesize about observations. > > >Virtually every modern so-called 'scientific > >discipline' is tightly wound up in empiricism and its associated > >inductive logic. One cannot derive certainties with induction (or a > >posteriori argument). Certainties can only arise out of a priorism > >(deductive logic). > > I don't follow you here, it seems to me that neither system gives >certainties all the time. If something has been observed, you cannot be >sure that the explanation you proposed is correct. Explanations are >better called models because you should be able to use that model to make >useful predictions (and test them, by observing the results of an >experiment) even if that is not what "really" happens. Certainties most >definitely do not always arise from deductive logic because the >assumptions on which it is based may be flawed. I don't know about you, >but I was taught that the scientific method was observation and >hypothesis. That method uses both forms of logic. Since logic is used, >and it IS a formal system, it is subject to Godel's Theorem. > >I wrote: > >If we modify science to include all truth then it must become > >inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. > >Charles Cagle wrote: > >No. Not to scientists but rather to pseudoscientists and > >practitioners of pathological science. > > Pathological science? Huh? OK, who on this list wants science to >become inconsistent? A show of hands, please. > > >Science is about knowledge. Knowledge falls into the two > >subcategories of true and false. Modern science has eschewed the > >role of reasonable epistemological tests to provide a quality index > >on the knowledge generated by so-called 'scientific' activities. > > The first two sentences I agree with wholeheartedly. What I have been >saying is that within the confines of a consistent system of logic you >cannot establish the truth-value of all theorems (propositions). Science >can be expanded to include specific truths that are physically proven >correct, but only by changing the "rules" or axioms. For example, >consider quantum theory. It explains a lot, but not everything. >Accepted axioms of science had to be changed to accomodate this theory, >this model, because many experiments have shown it to be a useful >"truth". It may not, in fact, accurately describe what is going on, but >it is as close as we have gotten so far. > > The last sentence is quite obviously an opinion, and I do not hold >yours. If the current idea of sufficient proof does not sway you, then >that is your own problem. There is a point at which skepticism becomes >so extreme that is disbelief. > >Chris O'Barr wrote: > > I disagree. We don't understand science. So from our scientific > >perspective, many things don't "make sense". The fact that we can't > >currently explain somthing, doesnt mean it doesn't have an explanation. >Our > >science is incomplete and incosistent, science is not (in a logical >world). > > I did not mean that it doesn't have an explanation, but simply that >deductive logic is not going to find all the answers. If something >doesn't make sense, wonderful! It means another opportunity to expand >the realm of knowledge (science). > > I am the first to admit I'm not an expert on either logic theory or >philosophy, but read "The Emperor's New Mind" and "Shadows of the Mind" >(both by Roger Penrose) for a more in-depth discussion of the application >of Godel's Theorem. Those books contain a very readable exploration of >the autor's ideas regarding artificial intelligence and quantum gravity >(and the connection between the two). > > -Tom Grimes ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 00:40:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13726; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:39:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:39:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000326073707.17440.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <20000326073707.17440.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:41:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: fake discoveries Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"N5Dej3.0.NM3.QpStu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >"Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few really >ASK. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown answers >they have already shaped in their own minds - justifications, >confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. >To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind." Indeed, but in an aphorism attributed to Pythagoras: 'Having departed your house, turn not back; for the furies will be your attendants.' is contained the warning to not really go off on the search for Truth if you aren't willing to go clear to the end, for your life becomes miserable if you only go part way and then decide that you can't or don't want to ride that 'whirlwind'. It would be better for that person if he'd never set out in the first place. > > M > >Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs >of the human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and >approximate. ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, >and if you want to completely understand one, you must understand >all, which is obviously impossible. Nonsense. You, having not understood it all, are nevertheless making a fiat declaration, which you cannot back up, that complete understanding is impossible. > The reason why science works so well is that approximations are possible. You are confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some specific areas works very well but in general in exploring certain questions works not at all even if there are hordes of people who insist that it works well in those areas. They are simply confused or lying or both. > > > Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and over >time become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent a >complete and final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of >Nature" are mutable, destined to be replaced by more accurate laws >when the theories are improved. Theories are almost always based on >arbitrary parameters or "fundamental constants", in other words, on >quantities whose values are not explained by the theory, but are >rather determined empirically and are merely accepted "a priori". >Quantum theory cannot explain the value used for the mass of an >electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons charge, or >relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical >view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no >further explanation. Really these are seen as the measurement problems. > Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations of >the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a >highly thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - >you must read and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, >particularly chapter 18 - Interpenetration - paraphrased to some >extent here), they should be explained, one by one, in future >theories as these theories are more and more accurately detailed and >improved. Sorry, Capra is another pseudoscientist. I've read his nonsense and found it useless. >It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which >accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some >unexplained features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will >require the acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts >which constitute the scientific language. You are describing imperfect science. As long as you believe that the current definitions of science include the only acceptable means for obtaining knowledge then you miss the boat and so does the crippled dysfunctional processes which you refer to as 'science'. > > > There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up >these assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already >shot as it is), I'll save for later.\\ You ought to just save them. I think there is a better way to do science and I think that great men of science often simply stumbled upon them from time to time and really didn't comprehend how they managed to make a breakthrough. I would add with the caveat that the truly great men did probably know. C. Cagle From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 00:59:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA19019; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:59:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:59:02 -0800 Message-ID: <38DDDF0E.9904E37F@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:57:34 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy2@listbot.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: fake discoveries References: <20000326073707.17440.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"86eCi3.0.4f4.L5Ttu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: yup thats pretty much what I was saying too. Btw, I really liked the quote.. who is that by or from? timothy richardson wrote: > "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few really ASK. On the > contrary, they try to wring from the unknown answers they have already > shaped in their own minds - justifications, confirmations, forms of > consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the > door to the whirlwind." > > M > > Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs of the > human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and approximate. > ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, and if you want to > completely understand one, you must understand all, which is obviously > impossible. The reason why science works so well is that approximations are > possible. You can describe an individual or group of phenomena > "approximately", neglecting other phenomena which are not as relevant. By > doing this, one or two aspects may explain many, without understanding all > at once. The scientific method is based on this idea: all theories and > models are merely approximations of the "true" nature of things, however, > the error involved is usually small enough that such an approach is > meaningful. > As an example: particle physics does not usually take the gravitational > interactive forces into consideration, because of the negligible effect on > resulting data. However, by ignoring these forces, there will be resulting > error in results, even if this is very small, and future, more accurate > theories of particles will have to include them. > > Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and over time > become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent a complete and > final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of Nature" are mutable, > destined to be replaced by more accurate laws when the theories are > improved. Theories are almost always based on arbitrary parameters or > "fundamental constants", in other words, on quantities whose values are not > explained by the theory, but are rather determined empirically and are > merely accepted "a priori". Quantum theory cannot explain the value used > for the mass of an electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons > charge, or relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical > view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no further > explanation. Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations > of the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a highly > thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - you must read > and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, particularly chapter 18 - > Interpenetration - paraphrased to some extent here), they should be > explained, one by one, in future theories as these theories are more and > more accurately detailed and improved. > > It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which > accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some unexplained > features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will require the > acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts which constitute the > scientific language. > > We will all reach what I call the language barrier at some point, and more > quickly so in fields which require highly specialized language such as > science. To illustrate, consider a dictionary - the word > > "go" - to move along, to travel, to proceed, as this car can "go" 90 MPH. > > OK, lets look up these: > > "Move" - to "change" place or position, to "stir", to "pass" or "go" in any > manner or direction. > > "change" - to cause to turn or "pass", > "pass" - to "move" forward, to "go", to "proceed", > > "Travel" - to "pass", or make a journey, to "go" from place to place..., to > "proceed" or "advance", > > "advance" - to "move" or "go" forward, to "proceed", > > "Proceed" - to "move", "pass", "advance" or "go" on..., > > beginning to get tired of the same words over and over? to understand one, > you must understand another, to understand the other, you must understand > the first....etc, etc, ad infinitum... (language, in this sense, mimics > science) > > ALL language (yes, even "scientific") ultimately is HIGHLY, HIGHLY > subjective, and this is something that will never be overcome until and > unless, we achieve direct thought transference. How would you explain what > an orange tasted like to someone who had never eaten one? Words are the > same, I can NEVER, no matter how much you explain it, know EXACTLY what you > mean by a certain word or phrase, much less thoughts expressed with them. > ALL (i.e. every last darned one of them) thought structures, including > logic, will suffer from this problem (to use words themselves you are using > "a priori". Words are "a priori". In this sense there is no deductive > logic). To say that you can PROVE anything logically (whether deductive or > inductive) is ridiculous. Perhaps you can be "almost" certain, but there > will ALWAYS be an element of doubt. > > There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up these > assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already shot as it is), > I'll save for later. > > TR > > >Charles Cagle wrote: > > >Absolute nonsense. Science imperfectly uses logic. And you and > > >quite a few other people have made an illogical connection between > > >Godel's Theorem and science. > > > > Perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently clear. I am not applying > >Godel's Theorem to the observational part of science, only to the logic > >system that we use to "understand" or hypothesize about observations. > > > > >Virtually every modern so-called 'scientific > > >discipline' is tightly wound up in empiricism and its associated > > >inductive logic. One cannot derive certainties with induction (or a > > >posteriori argument). Certainties can only arise out of a priorism > > >(deductive logic). > > > > I don't follow you here, it seems to me that neither system gives > >certainties all the time. If something has been observed, you cannot be > >sure that the explanation you proposed is correct. Explanations are > >better called models because you should be able to use that model to make > >useful predictions (and test them, by observing the results of an > >experiment) even if that is not what "really" happens. Certainties most > >definitely do not always arise from deductive logic because the > >assumptions on which it is based may be flawed. I don't know about you, > >but I was taught that the scientific method was observation and > >hypothesis. That method uses both forms of logic. Since logic is used, > >and it IS a formal system, it is subject to Godel's Theorem. > > > >I wrote: > > >If we modify science to include all truth then it must become > > >inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. > > > >Charles Cagle wrote: > > >No. Not to scientists but rather to pseudoscientists and > > >practitioners of pathological science. > > > > Pathological science? Huh? OK, who on this list wants science to > >become inconsistent? A show of hands, please. > > > > >Science is about knowledge. Knowledge falls into the two > > >subcategories of true and false. Modern science has eschewed the > > >role of reasonable epistemological tests to provide a quality index > > >on the knowledge generated by so-called 'scientific' activities. > > > > The first two sentences I agree with wholeheartedly. What I have been > >saying is that within the confines of a consistent system of logic you > >cannot establish the truth-value of all theorems (propositions). Science > >can be expanded to include specific truths that are physically proven > >correct, but only by changing the "rules" or axioms. For example, > >consider quantum theory. It explains a lot, but not everything. > >Accepted axioms of science had to be changed to accomodate this theory, > >this model, because many experiments have shown it to be a useful > >"truth". It may not, in fact, accurately describe what is going on, but > >it is as close as we have gotten so far. > > > > The last sentence is quite obviously an opinion, and I do not hold > >yours. If the current idea of sufficient proof does not sway you, then > >that is your own problem. There is a point at which skepticism becomes > >so extreme that is disbelief. > > > >Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > I disagree. We don't understand science. So from our scientific > > >perspective, many things don't "make sense". The fact that we can't > > >currently explain somthing, doesnt mean it doesn't have an explanation. > >Our > > >science is incomplete and incosistent, science is not (in a logical > >world). > > > > I did not mean that it doesn't have an explanation, but simply that > >deductive logic is not going to find all the answers. If something > >doesn't make sense, wonderful! It means another opportunity to expand > >the realm of knowledge (science). > > > > I am the first to admit I'm not an expert on either logic theory or > >philosophy, but read "The Emperor's New Mind" and "Shadows of the Mind" > >(both by Roger Penrose) for a more in-depth discussion of the application > >of Godel's Theorem. Those books contain a very readable exploration of > >the autor's ideas regarding artificial intelligence and quantum gravity > >(and the connection between the two). > > > > -Tom Grimes > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 04:18:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA12701; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 04:17:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 04:17:28 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:10:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003261210.OAA06824@front2m.grolier.fr> X-Sender: jplentin@pop3.club-internet.fr (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Godel's theorem (was : Fake discoveries) Resent-Message-ID: <"C5DPO2.0.M63.N_Vtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all ! > Have you ever heard of Godel's Theorem? It states that ALL > sufficiently strong formal systems are either incomplete or inconsistent. Some inaccuracies there. "All sufficiently strong formal system" is over-generalising. Godel addressed "all mathematical theories that include arithmetics" (i.e. all sufficiently strong, or rich, mathematical theory). Then his notion of "incompletude" does not mean that we cannot be sure about true or false. Exact formulation of the theorem is : "In all mathematical theories that include arithmetics, there exists propositions which are TRUE, but cannot be demonstrated within the framework of the theory." > In 1931 Kurt Godel proved this theorem, mathematically, and no one has > been able to refute it. Since science follows a formal system, that is, > logic, then it follows that WE CANNOT ALWAYS BE SURE THAT A > PROPOSITION IS TRUE OR FALSE. Any applications of Godel's theorem to truth in science in general are over-generalisation too. The problem of science and truth has been extensively covered by Popper, Lakatos, Kuhn, Feyerabend, etc. Extremely boring stuff and - guess what - ultimately inconclusive ! Apparently, there is no acceptable definition of "truth" in science. But science marches on anyway ! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 04:26:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14489; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 04:25:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 04:25:48 -0800 Message-ID: <38DE01D0.1907@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 07:25:52 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The most trying time for this researcher... References: <004601bf96e6$1852fe80$71e5e3cf@x8k8p3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Nd_Hp3.0.BY3.C7Wtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bryan Nelson wrote: > > Bruce, if it works --FANTASTIC, you are a hero! If it does not work, don't > you dare go underground or hide your face from me! What will be will be. > (I'm betting on success). As you well know, each failure often gives more > knowledge than success, and brings one closer to success. I will continue > to support you as a rare person who has the guts to think past the herd and > go for it whether successful or not. Keep up the good work and CONTINUE TO > HAVE FUN. The greatest things are created with a light heart. I sure as > hell know your fears and concerns about this, but I will bet most of this > group will work with you to continue to find answers. Anyone who ridicules > you are not worth considering because they are making up for their own > insecurities, lack and ineptness. No matter what happens, hold your head > high and keep going straight ahead! It is good to know that I have some true friends in this life. Here you have showed me that there are people that care about their peers and not just what they can get from them. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 10:19:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA22355; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:18:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:18:46 -0800 Message-ID: <20000326181813.16167.qmail@web4104.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:18:13 -0800 (PST) From: nnone nnone Subject: Capacitor WORKS !! Are You suprised ? To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"tZlsT1.0.CT5.6Ibtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The greater the heat capacity of the insulating material between the disks, the longer it will produce a "thrust" of open-curve gravitational waves before itrequires another charge. T. Townsend Brown worked on the principles of electro-gravitation for about 50 years and invented many fantastic devices, most of which were suppressed. The government did not give him funding to develop electro-gravitic propulsion, but they did manage to steal some of his best ideas, and used their own scientists to continue development and refinement ofhis engines in secret. Many UFO sightings, especially in the 1940's and 1950's were experimental aircraft being tested by the American government. These engines, or some versions of them, have been used on aircraft and spacecraft for nearly 50 years, yet the technology will not be used on vehicles driven by the general public simply because the fossil fuel economies of the entire worldwould crumble overnight! The engine is simple, if a bit crude, but it works by directly utilizing the gravitic fields that accompany high voltage, low amp electricity. It might be possible to build energy self-sufficient cars by using flywheel generators connected to the wheels, and perhaps a turbine generator in the "wake" of the array. These cascade generators might be enough to drive energy self-sufficient vehicles until someone re-discovers free energy receivers. The technical name for this device is Capacitor Array Gravitational Warp engine, however, it is not really a capacitor but, rather, a conduit for pulsing high voltage, low amperage electricity to effect graviticpropulsion. High voltage, low amperage electricity is accompanied by gravitational fields, just as ordinary current electricity is accompanied by strong magnetic fields. Using electrogravitation is much different from usingelectromagnetism, however. A dielectric must be used that will allow the pulsing energy to cascade through the array without overheating and/or burning through. (Titanium dioxideor Bakelite litharge)? Staggering the inner and outer diameters of the plates and overlapping the plates from layer to layer causes an undulating cascade effect. The energy flows in a circular zig-zag between inner diameters from small to large plates as well as around the outer diameter ofthe small plates. Small and large plates must have the same surface area, which can be accomplished by varying inner and outer diameters in the right proportions. The cylindrical configuration causes a gravitic "doughnut" or "smoke ring" field to pulse through the array with the high voltage energy. This has a direct gravitational action/reaction on the dielectric and plates, as well as on surrounding space, especiallyalong the axis of motion. Each pulse causes a gravitic ripple, and these ripples link to create a wave form. The faster it is pulsed, and the higher the voltage, the better the wave form. The energy is pulsed into the positive end of the array and moves toward the negative end or ground or lower potential as does lightning.High voltage coils, as well as van der Graaff generators and Wimshurst machines produce energy suitable for charging the Cascade Generator. Propulsion is accomplished as energy cascades through the grid carrying a gravitational warp field with it, creating a gravitic "pressure" wave in the surrounding space. Higher voltage and pulse rate generates greaterthrust. Oooops. !! Cya… __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 10:32:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA26556; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:32:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:32:02 -0800 Message-ID: <001501bf9751$93591fe0$a5b47ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Capacitor WORKS !! Are You suprised ? Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:31:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"T8cp01.0.mU6.XUbtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: nnone nnone To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, March 26, 2000 10:09 AM Subject: Capacitor WORKS !! Are You suprised ? >> >Staggering the inner and outer diameters of the plates >and overlapping the plates from layer to layer causes >an undulating cascade effect. Did you build this? If so, what materials did you use? Do you use ring or segmented pieces for the plates? Diameters? Any photo's or drawings? Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 11:18:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03828; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:17:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:17:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:17:44 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries In-Reply-To: <20000326073707.17440.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ifWg62.0.fx.S9ctu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, timothy richardson wrote: > "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few really ASK. On the > contrary, they try to wring from the unknown answers they have already > shaped in their own minds - justifications, confirmations, forms of > consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the > door to the whirlwind." > LOL! That's exactly it. I've always thought of it as either the whirlwind or the open door of the blast furnace. But to REALLY ask is to STEP THROUGH that door, and you can't go back. The door closes behind you. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 12:29:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20507; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:28:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:28:20 -0800 Message-ID: <20000326202746.45292.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.12] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:27:45 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"QdnHP.0.K05.aBdtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Those who invalidate reason ought seriously to consider whether they argue against reason with or without reason; if they argue with reason, then they establish the very principle they are laboring to dethrone; but if they argue without reason (which in order to be consistant with themselves they must do), they are out of reach of rational conviction, nor do they deserve a rational argument" - Ethan Allen A little learing is a dangerous thing. Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring; their shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, while drinking largely sobers us again. - Pope Mr. Cagle, Your arguments are emotional, and without any point whatsoever. Where are your LOGICAL refutations to my post? I said: "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few really ASK. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown answers they have already shaped in their own minds - justifications, confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind." You said: Indeed, but in an aphorism attributed to Pythagoras: 'Having departed your house, turn not back; for the furies will be your attendants.' is contained the warning to not really go off on the search for Truth if you aren't willing to go clear to the end, for your life becomes miserable if you only go part way and then decide that you can't or don't want to ride that 'whirlwind'. It would be better for that person if he'd never set out in the first place. My reply to this: You simply took what I said (the point of what I said) restated it in another form, and are trying to use it as a counter to what I said in the first place! This is ridiculous. I said: >>Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs >>of the human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and >>approximate. ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, >>and if you want to completely understand one, you must understand >>all, which is obviously impossible. You said: >Nonsense. You, having not understood it all, are nevertheless making a >fiat declaration, which you cannot back up, that complete >understanding is impossible. My reply: WHY have I not understood it at all? What are the REASONS?? Give me logic, not emotion. As far as my not backing it up, you simply miss the point of my argument - I did back it up. Tell me WHERE and WHY my argument fails, don't just say: (like a three year old) "thats not true"!! I said: >> The reason why science works so well is that approximations are >>possible. You said: >You are confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some >specific areas works very well but in general in exploring certain >questions works not at all even if there are hordes of people who >insist that it works well in those areas. They are simply confused >or lying or both. My reply: More emotion. More unsupported assertations. More vague statements that seem to say something, but really don't. WHY am I "confused"? What "specific areas" are you referring to? What are those "certain questions " where it "works not at all"? Who are these "hordes of people"? and much more importantly, WHAT exactly does all of this have to do with what we are discussing? Tie your statements together into SOME kind of logical framework. For someone arguing about science, you really seem to have a poor grasp of just exactly what science is, and isn't. > >> I said: >> Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and overtime >>become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent a >>complete and final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of >>Nature" are mutable, destined to be replaced by more accurate laws >>when the theories are improved. Theories are almost always based on >>arbitrary parameters or "fundamental constants", in other words, on >>quantities whose values are not explained by the theory, but are >>rather determined empirically and are merely accepted "a priori". >>Quantum theory cannot explain the value used for the mass of an >>electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons charge, or >>relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical >>view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no >>further explanation. > You said: >Really these are seen as the measurement problems. > My reply: FINALLY, a bit of specifics. Now, are these "measurement problems, as you say, or is it something else? Its something else. You once again have totally missed the point. It has nothing to do with the accuracy of the measurements. It has to do with the fact that measurements have to be made in the first place, to obtain the data, which is then inserted into the framework of the theory, and accepted without knowing WHY the quantity is what it is, rather than being PREDICTED by the theory, and then proven empirically. It has to do with the fact that these measurements, no matter how accurate, are not EXPLAINED. To KNOW (through empirical observation and calculation) the value of C to the infinite decimal place, no matter how accurately, does not in the slightest explain WHAT C is, or WHY. I said: >> Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations of >>the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a >>highly thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - >>you must read and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, >>particularly chapter 18 - Interpenetration - paraphrased to some >>extent here), they should be explained, one by one, in future >>theories as these theories are more and more accurately detailed and >>improved. > You said: >Sorry, Capra is another pseudoscientist. I've read his nonsense and found >it useless. > My reply: Once again, WHY?! Back up your emotional OPINION with reason, fact and argument. I said: > >>It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which >>accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some >>unexplained features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will >>require the acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts >>which constitute the scientific language. > You said: >You are describing imperfect science. As long as you believe that >the current definitions of science include the only acceptable means >for obtaining knowledge then you miss the boat and so does the >crippled dysfunctional processes which you refer to as 'science'. > My reply: There is no such thing as "perfect science". That's what this whole argument is about. So, what you are doing here is restating your OPINION again, rather than logical reasons for why you have that opinion. And please, what exactly is your definition of science? I think that it must be quite different than everyone elses. Enlighten me, please, as to what exactly these other "means for obtaining knowledge" are. And while you are at it, define "acceptable" (valid? socially acceptable? what?) and "knowledge" as well. Empirical observations lead to knowledge (although not complete knowledge), and this is "science". Experimental verification of theory leads to knowledge (although not complete knowledge), and this is "science". This is what is known as the scientific method - observation, postulation, experimentation, verification or refutation. There is NO knowledge that is not obtained by these means, so what exactly are you talking about?! I said: >> >> >> There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up >>these assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already >>shot as it is), I'll save for later.\\ > You said: >You ought to just save them. My reply: Pearls before swine. Except, of course, you are not the only one here. LOL. You said: > >I think there is a better way to do science and I think that great >men of science often simply stumbled upon them from time to time and >really didn't comprehend how they managed to make a breakthrough. I >would add with the caveat that the truly great men did probably know. > >C. Cagle > My reply: If there is indeed a "better way" than the scientific method as currently in use, please enlighten us all as to what is, so that we can benefit from your knowledge as well. Also, which great men are you refering to? At this point I'm expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. (Please!) But please, don't wrap your opinion in a thin veil of poor logic and retoric in order to try to impress people. Most here are really searching for something real and not interested in unsupported speculation and wandering thought. Tim Richardson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 12:35:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23678; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:34:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:34:43 -0800 Message-ID: <20000326203409.7411.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.12] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:34:09 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"dr2F83.0.qn5.ZHdtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Those who invalidate reason ought seriously to consider whether they argue against reason with or without reason; if they argue with reason, then they establish the very principle they are laboring to dethrone; but if they argue without reason (which in order to be consistant with themselves they must do), they are out of reach of rational conviction, nor do they deserve a rational argument" - Ethan Allen A little learing is a dangerous thing. Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring; their shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, while drinking largely sobers us again. - Pope Mr. Cagle, Your arguments are emotional, and without any point whatsoever. Where are your LOGICAL refutations to my post? I said: "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few really ASK. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown answers they have already shaped in their own minds - justifications, confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind." You said: Indeed, but in an aphorism attributed to Pythagoras: 'Having departed your house, turn not back; for the furies will be your attendants.' is contained the warning to not really go off on the search for Truth if you aren't willing to go clear to the end, for your life becomes miserable if you only go part way and then decide that you can't or don't want to ride that 'whirlwind'. It would be better for that person if he'd never set out in the first place. My reply to this: You simply took what I said (the point of what I said) restated it in another form, and are trying to use it as a counter to what I said in the first place! This is ridiculous. I said: >>Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs >>of the human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and >>approximate. ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, >>and if you want to completely understand one, you must understand >>all, which is obviously impossible. You said: >Nonsense. You, having not understood it all, are nevertheless making a >fiat declaration, which you cannot back up, that complete >understanding is impossible. My reply: WHY have I not understood it at all? What are the REASONS?? Give me logic, not emotion. As far as my not backing it up, you simply miss the point of my argument - I did back it up. Tell me WHERE and WHY my argument fails, don't just say: (like a three year old) "thats not true"!! I said: >> The reason why science works so well is that approximations are >>possible. You said: >You are confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some >specific areas works very well but in general in exploring certain >questions works not at all even if there are hordes of people who >insist that it works well in those areas. They are simply confused >or lying or both. My reply: More emotion. More unsupported assertations. More vague statements that seem to say something, but really don't. WHY am I "confused"? What "specific areas" are you referring to? What are those "certain questions " where it "works not at all"? Who are these "hordes of people"? and much more importantly, WHAT exactly does all of this have to do with what we are discussing? Tie your statements together into SOME kind of logical framework. For someone arguing about science, you really seem to have a poor grasp of just exactly what science is, and isn't. > >> I said: >> Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and overtime >>become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent a >>complete and final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of >>Nature" are mutable, destined to be replaced by more accurate laws >>when the theories are improved. Theories are almost always based on >>arbitrary parameters or "fundamental constants", in other words, on >>quantities whose values are not explained by the theory, but are >>rather determined empirically and are merely accepted "a priori". >>Quantum theory cannot explain the value used for the mass of an >>electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons charge, or >>relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical >>view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no >>further explanation. > You said: >Really these are seen as the measurement problems. > My reply: FINALLY, a bit of specifics. Now, are these "measurement problems, as you say, or is it something else? Its something else. You once again have totally missed the point. It has nothing to do with the accuracy of the measurements. It has to do with the fact that measurements have to be made in the first place, to obtain the data, which is then inserted into the framework of the theory, and accepted without knowing WHY the quantity is what it is, rather than being PREDICTED by the theory, and then proven empirically. It has to do with the fact that these measurements, no matter how accurate, are not EXPLAINED. To KNOW (through empirical observation and calculation) the value of C to the infinite decimal place, no matter how accurately, does not in the slightest explain WHAT C is, or WHY. I said: >> Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations of >>the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a >>highly thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - >>you must read and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, >>particularly chapter 18 - Interpenetration - paraphrased to some >>extent here), they should be explained, one by one, in future >>theories as these theories are more and more accurately detailed and >>improved. > You said: >Sorry, Capra is another pseudoscientist. I've read his nonsense and found >it useless. > My reply: Once again, WHY?! Back up your emotional OPINION with reason, fact and argument. I said: > >>It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which >>accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some >>unexplained features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will >>require the acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts >>which constitute the scientific language. > You said: >You are describing imperfect science. As long as you believe that >the current definitions of science include the only acceptable means >for obtaining knowledge then you miss the boat and so does the >crippled dysfunctional processes which you refer to as 'science'. > My reply: There is no such thing as "perfect science". That's what this whole argument is about. So, what you are doing here is restating your OPINION again, rather than logical reasons for why you have that opinion. And please, what exactly is your definition of science? I think that it must be quite different than everyone elses. Enlighten me, please, as to what exactly these other "means for obtaining knowledge" are. And while you are at it, define "acceptable" (valid? socially acceptable? what?) and "knowledge" as well. Empirical observations lead to knowledge (although not complete knowledge), and this is "science". Experimental verification of theory leads to knowledge (although not complete knowledge), and this is "science". This is what is known as the scientific method - observation, postulation, experimentation, verification or refutation. There is NO knowledge that is not obtained by these means, so what exactly are you talking about?! I said: >> >> >> There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up >>these assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already >>shot as it is), I'll save for later.\\ > You said: >You ought to just save them. My reply: Pearls before swine. Except, of course, you are not the only one here. LOL. You said: > >I think there is a better way to do science and I think that great >men of science often simply stumbled upon them from time to time and >really didn't comprehend how they managed to make a breakthrough. I >would add with the caveat that the truly great men did probably know. > >C. Cagle > My reply: If there is indeed a "better way" than the scientific method as currently in use, please enlighten us all as to what is, so that we can benefit from your knowledge as well. Also, which great men are you refering to? At this point I'm expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. (Please!) But please, don't wrap your opinion in a thin veil of poor logic and retoric in order to try to impress people. Most here are really searching for something real and not interested in unsupported speculation and wandering thought. Tim Richardson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 12:38:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25943; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:38:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:38:27 -0800 Message-ID: <20000326203753.16970.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.12] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:37:53 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"255J3.0.BL6.2Ldtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >yup thats pretty much what I was saying too. Btw, I really liked the >quote.. who >is that by or from? > >timothy richardson wrote: > > > "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few really ASK. On >the > > contrary, they try to wring from the unknown answers they have already > > shaped in their own minds - justifications, confirmations, forms of > > consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open >the > > door to the whirlwind." > > > > M > > > > Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs of >the > > human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and approximate. > > ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, and if you want to > > completely understand one, you must understand all, which is obviously > > impossible. The reason why science works so well is that approximations >are > > possible. You can describe an individual or group of phenomena > > "approximately", neglecting other phenomena which are not as relevant. >By > > doing this, one or two aspects may explain many, without understanding >all > > at once. The scientific method is based on this idea: all theories and > > models are merely approximations of the "true" nature of things, >however, > > the error involved is usually small enough that such an approach is > > meaningful. > > As an example: particle physics does not usually take the >gravitational > > interactive forces into consideration, because of the negligible effect >on > > resulting data. However, by ignoring these forces, there will be >resulting > > error in results, even if this is very small, and future, more accurate > > theories of particles will have to include them. > > > > Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and over >time > > become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent a complete and > > final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of Nature" are >mutable, > > destined to be replaced by more accurate laws when the theories are > > improved. Theories are almost always based on arbitrary parameters or > > "fundamental constants", in other words, on quantities whose values are >not > > explained by the theory, but are rather determined empirically and are > > merely accepted "a priori". Quantum theory cannot explain the value >used > > for the mass of an electron, or field theory the magnitude of the >electrons > > charge, or relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the >classical > > view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no further > > explanation. Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the >limitations > > of the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a >highly > > thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - you must >read > > and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, particularly chapter >18 - > > Interpenetration - paraphrased to some extent here), they should be > > explained, one by one, in future theories as these theories are more and > > more accurately detailed and improved. > > > > It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which > > accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some >unexplained > > features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will require the > > acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts which constitute >the > > scientific language. > > > > We will all reach what I call the language barrier at some point, and >more > > quickly so in fields which require highly specialized language such as > > science. To illustrate, consider a dictionary - the word > > > > "go" - to move along, to travel, to proceed, as this car can "go" 90 >MPH. > > > > OK, lets look up these: > > > > "Move" - to "change" place or position, to "stir", to "pass" or "go" in >any > > manner or direction. > > > > "change" - to cause to turn or "pass", > > "pass" - to "move" forward, to "go", to "proceed", > > > > "Travel" - to "pass", or make a journey, to "go" from place to place..., >to > > "proceed" or "advance", > > > > "advance" - to "move" or "go" forward, to "proceed", > > > > "Proceed" - to "move", "pass", "advance" or "go" on..., > > > > beginning to get tired of the same words over and over? to understand >one, > > you must understand another, to understand the other, you must >understand > > the first....etc, etc, ad infinitum... (language, in this sense, mimics > > science) > > > > ALL language (yes, even "scientific") ultimately is HIGHLY, HIGHLY > > subjective, and this is something that will never be overcome until and > > unless, we achieve direct thought transference. How would you explain >what > > an orange tasted like to someone who had never eaten one? Words are the > > same, I can NEVER, no matter how much you explain it, know EXACTLY what >you > > mean by a certain word or phrase, much less thoughts expressed with >them. > > ALL (i.e. every last darned one of them) thought structures, including > > logic, will suffer from this problem (to use words themselves you are >using > > "a priori". Words are "a priori". In this sense there is no deductive > > logic). To say that you can PROVE anything logically (whether deductive >or > > inductive) is ridiculous. Perhaps you can be "almost" certain, but >there > > will ALWAYS be an element of doubt. > > > > There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up >these > > assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already shot as it >is), > > I'll save for later. > > > > TR > > > > >Charles Cagle wrote: > > > >Absolute nonsense. Science imperfectly uses logic. And you and > > > >quite a few other people have made an illogical connection between > > > >Godel's Theorem and science. > > > > > > Perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently clear. I am not >applying > > >Godel's Theorem to the observational part of science, only to the logic > > >system that we use to "understand" or hypothesize about observations. > > > > > > >Virtually every modern so-called 'scientific > > > >discipline' is tightly wound up in empiricism and its associated > > > >inductive logic. One cannot derive certainties with induction (or a > > > >posteriori argument). Certainties can only arise out of a priorism > > > >(deductive logic). > > > > > > I don't follow you here, it seems to me that neither system >gives > > >certainties all the time. If something has been observed, you cannot >be > > >sure that the explanation you proposed is correct. Explanations are > > >better called models because you should be able to use that model to >make > > >useful predictions (and test them, by observing the results of an > > >experiment) even if that is not what "really" happens. Certainties >most > > >definitely do not always arise from deductive logic because the > > >assumptions on which it is based may be flawed. I don't know about >you, > > >but I was taught that the scientific method was observation and > > >hypothesis. That method uses both forms of logic. Since logic is >used, > > >and it IS a formal system, it is subject to Godel's Theorem. > > > > > >I wrote: > > > >If we modify science to include all truth then it must become > > > >inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. > > > > > >Charles Cagle wrote: > > > >No. Not to scientists but rather to pseudoscientists and > > > >practitioners of pathological science. > > > > > > Pathological science? Huh? OK, who on this list wants science >to > > >become inconsistent? A show of hands, please. > > > > > > >Science is about knowledge. Knowledge falls into the two > > > >subcategories of true and false. Modern science has eschewed the > > > >role of reasonable epistemological tests to provide a quality index > > > >on the knowledge generated by so-called 'scientific' activities. > > > > > > The first two sentences I agree with wholeheartedly. What I >have been > > >saying is that within the confines of a consistent system of logic you > > >cannot establish the truth-value of all theorems (propositions). >Science > > >can be expanded to include specific truths that are physically proven > > >correct, but only by changing the "rules" or axioms. For example, > > >consider quantum theory. It explains a lot, but not everything. > > >Accepted axioms of science had to be changed to accomodate this theory, > > >this model, because many experiments have shown it to be a useful > > >"truth". It may not, in fact, accurately describe what is going on, >but > > >it is as close as we have gotten so far. > > > > > > The last sentence is quite obviously an opinion, and I do not >hold > > >yours. If the current idea of sufficient proof does not sway you, then > > >that is your own problem. There is a point at which skepticism becomes > > >so extreme that is disbelief. > > > > > >Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > > I disagree. We don't understand science. So from our scientific > > > >perspective, many things don't "make sense". The fact that we can't > > > >currently explain somthing, doesnt mean it doesn't have an >explanation. > > >Our > > > >science is incomplete and incosistent, science is not (in a logical > > >world). > > > > > > I did not mean that it doesn't have an explanation, but simply >that > > >deductive logic is not going to find all the answers. If something > > >doesn't make sense, wonderful! It means another opportunity to expand > > >the realm of knowledge (science). > > > > > > I am the first to admit I'm not an expert on either logic theory >or > > >philosophy, but read "The Emperor's New Mind" and "Shadows of the Mind" > > >(both by Roger Penrose) for a more in-depth discussion of the >application > > >of Godel's Theorem. Those books contain a very readable exploration of > > >the autor's ideas regarding artificial intelligence and quantum gravity > > >(and the connection between the two). > > > > > > -Tom Grimes > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 12:41:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27670; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:41:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:41:19 -0800 Message-ID: <20000326204045.88154.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.12] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com, nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:40:45 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"nrDLI2.0.Fm6.lNdtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: LOL. The "whirlwind" quote was from Anne Rices - Vampire Chronicles ("Queen of the Damned", I believe) Tim Richardson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 13:18:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05904; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:17:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:17:57 -0800 Message-ID: <001001bf9768$6f42b960$a2d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <38DCE051.288C41E0@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> <38DD53DD.751480CD@telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:15:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"I-VjI.0.9S1.5wdtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Those are some nice two cents. ----- Original Message ----- From: D Adams To: Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 7:03 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > perhaps the only safe way to proceed sometimes is to acknowledge that > ultimately > we really don't 'know' much of anything we just try to inadequately describe > what we > think we know and what we don't know. I suspect its possible that Charles > could just > as likely be 'right' as anyone else and perhaps the real value to be derived > from > this dialogue is not anyone's perception of which ego 'wins' the debate, but > rather from > the different sides acknowledging alternative perceptions and allowng > themselves to open > their mind to new possibilities.... and obviously taking advantage of any > functional and practical > thought processes that come.... > > just my two cents > > Taylor J. Smith wrote: > > > William Beaty wrote: > > > > Type-one error: if our goal is to reject all falsehood, then we > > invariably will reject many truths as well (DISBELIEVER) > > > > Charles Cagle wrote: > > > > You are declaring in advance that there is no way to > > discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). You may not have found a > > way but you are being presumptuous in supposing that either there is > > no way or that no one has found it. > > > > William Beaty wrote: > > > > INITIALLY there is not. > > Only experimental evidence determines the reality of a scientific claim. > > > > Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > > ... there might not even be a "right" in this world... > > > > Jack Smith writes: > > > > Should we enclose our current repetoire of design equations > > with the word "truth"? "Truth" is a sensation or emotion, useful > > for making snap life-and-death decisions; but it is in our heads, > > not "out there". > > > > Was it Thomas Huxley who described our minds as "reducing valves"? > > Our perceptions are limited, and the way we "sort things out" > > is a further limitation. > > > > Apparently, gracile and robust australopithecines co-existed > > for a span of time, as did Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons, and > > trebuchets and gun powder. Experiments are the basis for good > > design equations, and "the devil is in the details." > > > > Jack Smith > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 13:50:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16823; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:49:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:49:51 -0800 Message-ID: <002801bf976c$e3b1b680$a2d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000326073707.17440.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:47:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"58Zlr.0.m64.-Netu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: timothy richardson To: ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:37 AM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few really ASK. On the > contrary, they try to wring from the unknown answers they have already > shaped in their own minds - justifications, confirmations, forms of > consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the > door to the whirlwind." > > M > > Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs of the > human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and approximate. > ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, and if you want to > completely understand one, you must understand all, which is obviously > impossible. The reason why science works so well is that approximations are > possible. You can describe an individual or group of phenomena > "approximately", neglecting other phenomena which are not as relevant. By > doing this, one or two aspects may explain many, without understanding all > at once. The scientific method is based on this idea: all theories and > models are merely approximations of the "true" nature of things, however, > the error involved is usually small enough that such an approach is > meaningful. > As an example: particle physics does not usually take the gravitational > interactive forces into consideration, because of the negligible effect on > resulting data. However, by ignoring these forces, there will be resulting > error in results, even if this is very small, and future, more accurate > theories of particles will have to include them. What gives you the right to say that anything is impossible. I for one believe that everything is possible, including absolute comprehension (the thought makes me feel so tingley). It is highly improbable, but how can YOU know that it's impossible. I believe a cartoon charactor could "possibly" materialize in front of me and start danceing, can you truthfuly say thats impossible? > > Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and over time > become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent a complete and > final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of Nature" are mutable, > destined to be replaced by more accurate laws when the theories are > improved. Theories are almost always based on arbitrary parameters or > "fundamental constants", in other words, on quantities whose values are not > explained by the theory, but are rather determined empirically and are > merely accepted "a priori". Quantum theory cannot explain the value used > for the mass of an electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons > charge, or relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical > view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no further > explanation. Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations > of the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a highly > thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - you must read > and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, particularly chapter 18 - > Interpenetration - paraphrased to some extent here), they should be > explained, one by one, in future theories as these theories are more and > more accurately detailed and improved. How can you say these things with certainty? Possibilites could be endless as far as you know. > > It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which > accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some unexplained > features. According to who? How do you know this is correct, is it "proven"? As long as it is a scientific theory, it will require the > acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts which constitute the > scientific language. Reeeeeeeeeally? > > We will all reach what I call the language barrier at some point, and more > quickly so in fields which require highly specialized language such as > science. Uh, huh. To illustrate, consider a dictionary - the word > > "go" - to move along, to travel, to proceed, as this car can "go" 90 MPH. > > OK, lets look up these: > > "Move" - to "change" place or position, to "stir", to "pass" or "go" in any > manner or direction. > > "change" - to cause to turn or "pass", > "pass" - to "move" forward, to "go", to "proceed", > > "Travel" - to "pass", or make a journey, to "go" from place to place..., to > "proceed" or "advance", > > "advance" - to "move" or "go" forward, to "proceed", > > "Proceed" - to "move", "pass", "advance" or "go" on..., > > beginning to get tired of the same words over and over? to understand one, > you must understand another, to understand the other, you must understand > the first....etc, etc, ad infinitum... (language, in this sense, mimics > science) > > ALL language (yes, even "scientific") ultimately is HIGHLY, HIGHLY > subjective, and this is something that will never be overcome until and > unless, we achieve direct thought transference. How would you explain what > an orange tasted like to someone who had never eaten one? Words are the > same, I can NEVER, no matter how much you explain it, know EXACTLY what you > mean by a certain word or phrase, much less thoughts expressed with them. > ALL (i.e. every last darned one of them) thought structures, including > logic, will suffer from this problem (to use words themselves you are using > "a priori". Words are "a priori". In this sense there is no deductive > logic). To say that you can PROVE anything logically (whether deductive or > inductive) is ridiculous. Perhaps you can be "almost" certain, but there > will ALWAYS be an element of doubt. I GIVE UP, THERE'S TO MUCH TO CONTRADICT!!!! > > There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up these > assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already shot as it is), > I'll save for later. > > TR > > > > >Charles Cagle wrote: > > >Absolute nonsense. Science imperfectly uses logic. And you and > > >quite a few other people have made an illogical connection between > > >Godel's Theorem and science. > > > > Perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently clear. I am not applying > >Godel's Theorem to the observational part of science, only to the logic > >system that we use to "understand" or hypothesize about observations. > > > > >Virtually every modern so-called 'scientific > > >discipline' is tightly wound up in empiricism and its associated > > >inductive logic. One cannot derive certainties with induction (or a > > >posteriori argument). Certainties can only arise out of a priorism > > >(deductive logic). > > > > I don't follow you here, it seems to me that neither system gives > >certainties all the time. If something has been observed, you cannot be > >sure that the explanation you proposed is correct. Explanations are > >better called models because you should be able to use that model to make > >useful predictions (and test them, by observing the results of an > >experiment) even if that is not what "really" happens. Certainties most > >definitely do not always arise from deductive logic because the > >assumptions on which it is based may be flawed. I don't know about you, > >but I was taught that the scientific method was observation and > >hypothesis. That method uses both forms of logic. Since logic is used, > >and it IS a formal system, it is subject to Godel's Theorem. > > > >I wrote: > > >If we modify science to include all truth then it must become > > >inconsistent, which is unacceptable to most scientists. > > > >Charles Cagle wrote: > > >No. Not to scientists but rather to pseudoscientists and > > >practitioners of pathological science. > > > > Pathological science? Huh? OK, who on this list wants science to > >become inconsistent? A show of hands, please. > > > > >Science is about knowledge. Knowledge falls into the two > > >subcategories of true and false. Modern science has eschewed the > > >role of reasonable epistemological tests to provide a quality index > > >on the knowledge generated by so-called 'scientific' activities. > > > > The first two sentences I agree with wholeheartedly. What I have been > >saying is that within the confines of a consistent system of logic you > >cannot establish the truth-value of all theorems (propositions). Science > >can be expanded to include specific truths that are physically proven > >correct, but only by changing the "rules" or axioms. For example, > >consider quantum theory. It explains a lot, but not everything. > >Accepted axioms of science had to be changed to accomodate this theory, > >this model, because many experiments have shown it to be a useful > >"truth". It may not, in fact, accurately describe what is going on, but > >it is as close as we have gotten so far. > > > > The last sentence is quite obviously an opinion, and I do not hold > >yours. If the current idea of sufficient proof does not sway you, then > >that is your own problem. There is a point at which skepticism becomes > >so extreme that is disbelief. > > > >Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > I disagree. We don't understand science. So from our scientific > > >perspective, many things don't "make sense". The fact that we can't > > >currently explain somthing, doesnt mean it doesn't have an explanation. > >Our > > >science is incomplete and incosistent, science is not (in a logical > >world). > > > > I did not mean that it doesn't have an explanation, but simply that > >deductive logic is not going to find all the answers. If something > >doesn't make sense, wonderful! It means another opportunity to expand > >the realm of knowledge (science). > > > > I am the first to admit I'm not an expert on either logic theory or > >philosophy, but read "The Emperor's New Mind" and "Shadows of the Mind" > >(both by Roger Penrose) for a more in-depth discussion of the application > >of Godel's Theorem. Those books contain a very readable exploration of > >the autor's ideas regarding artificial intelligence and quantum gravity > >(and the connection between the two). > > > > -Tom Grimes > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 14:01:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21649; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:01:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:01:32 -0800 Message-ID: <003c01bf976e$85b9b440$a2d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:59:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"t0y8i2.0.5I5.xYetu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Who would want to go back? It's wonderful here! ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:17 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, timothy richardson wrote: > > > "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few really ASK. On the > > contrary, they try to wring from the unknown answers they have already > > shaped in their own minds - justifications, confirmations, forms of > > consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the > > door to the whirlwind." > > > > LOL! That's exactly it. I've always thought of it as either the > whirlwind or the open door of the blast furnace. But to REALLY ask is to > STEP THROUGH that door, and you can't go back. The door closes behind > you. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 16:00:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18622; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:59:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:59:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 15:59:41 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thickness of foil? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9ESXF.0.tY4.lHgtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: see below. Note that earlier he mentioned http://www.advent-rm.com as a source for tin foil. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:49:11 To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thickness of foil? Its thikness is 0.025 mm Purity 97.8+ % I have to go. I will travel in few ours. I will be back next Saturday. I will have a laptop with me but I don't know if I will be able to recieve my mail or send. take care. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 17:19:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10407; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:19:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:19:27 -0800 Message-ID: <00b901bf978a$7dd2a0e0$a5b47ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Thickness of foil? (fwd) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:19:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"uThg11.0.RY2.VShtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, March 26, 2000 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Thickness of foil? (fwd) >> >I have to go. >I will travel in few ours. I will be back next Saturday. If it is a business trip, I hope you make a lot of money from this discovery :-) Looking forward to hearing more about your unit when you have the time. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 20:16:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26645; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:16:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:16:28 -0800 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:11:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Thickness of foil? Message-ID: <20000326.201709.-468875.1.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"qEpEM.0.EW6.R2ktu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14415 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:49:11 >To: billb@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Thickness of foil? >I have to go. >I will travel in few ours. I will be back next Saturday. Please note that next Saturday is April 1st ! ;-) Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 20:49:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03579; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:49:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:49:31 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000326202746.45292.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <20000326202746.45292.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:50:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: fake discoveries Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"0TOCK3.0.qt.RXktu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Mr. Cagle, > > Your arguments are emotional, and without any point whatsoever. >Where are your LOGICAL refutations to my post? You demonstrate your confusion by what you write. see below. > >I said: "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few >really ASK. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown >answers they have already shaped in their own minds - justifications, >confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. >To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind." > >You said: Indeed, but in an aphorism attributed to Pythagoras: >'Having departed your house, turn not back; for the furies will be >your attendants.' is contained the warning to not really go off on >the >search for Truth if you aren't willing to go clear to the end, for >your life becomes miserable if you only go part way and then decide >that you can't or don't want to ride that 'whirlwind'. It would be >better for that person if he'd never set out in the first place. > >My reply to this: You simply took what I said (the point of what I >said) restated it in another form, and are trying to use it as a >counter to what I said in the first place! This is ridiculous. Your confusion here is in thinking that I disagreed with what you said in your first paragraph. My response was meant as a confirmation of the sentiment. It is with those little witless gems that you toss out later that I disagree. >I said: > >>>Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs >>>of the human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and >>>approximate. ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, >>>and if you want to completely understand one, you must understand >>>all, which is obviously impossible. > >You said: > >>Nonsense. You, having not understood it all, are nevertheless >>making a fiat declaration, which you cannot back up, that complete >>understanding is impossible. > >My reply: WHY have I not understood it at all? What are the >REASONS?? Give me logic, not emotion. Quit being so pissy. You stated that ALL natural phenomenon are ultimately interconnected but that is a fiat argument with no substantiation. It is your opinion. It may be true and even I feel that it is true but it is not logic. I think you are a hypocrite for demanding logic when you yourself sashay right along bereft of it in your writing which you turn around and do once more when you declare that it is 'obviously impossible' to understand all. You don't understand all perhaps but you have no reason for implying the impossibility of a thing which you cannot do and impute your own intellectual impotence to others. > As far as my not backing it up, you simply miss the point of my >argument - I did back it up. Tell me WHERE and WHY my argument >fails, don't just say: (like a three year old) "thats not true"!! Absolute nonsense. You are blowing hot air and I don't even think you realize it. >I said: > >>> The reason why science works so well is that approximations are possible. > >You said: > >>You are confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some >>specific areas works very well but in general in exploring certain >>questions works not at all even if there are hordes of people who >>insist that it works well in those areas. They are simply confused >>or lying or both. > >My reply: More emotion. More unsupported assertations. More vague >statements that seem to say something, but really don't. And your insistence that science works well is ridiculous. Define 'well'. To your satisfaction? To the satisfaction of other empty heads like yourself? Please get ahold of yourself. Your pronouncements are rife with assumptions. >WHY am I "confused"? Because you think you understand when you don't. >What "specific areas" are you referring to? Cosmology, nuclear physics (specifically charged particle interactions), nuclear fusion, stellar physics, geophysics, evolution, plate tectonics, planetary physics (to name a few). >What are those "certain questions " where it "works not at all"? Questions associated with areas of investigation which is not influenceable by the investigator. > Who are these "hordes of people"? Most people who what PBS and confuse popular pseudoscience with 'science' would be an example but in such cases it isn't just the 'pseudoscientists' but their audiences as well. >and much more importantly, WHAT exactly does all of this have to do >with what we are discussing? Tie your statements together into SOME >kind of logical framework. You have a short term memory loss or can't make the connection without it being spelled out for you? Maybe you ought to lay off the dope for a while. > For someone arguing about science, you really seem to have a poor >grasp of just exactly what science is, and isn't. You're making hysterical comments now. Get a grip. >> >>> > >I said: > >>> Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and >>>overtime become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent >>>a >>>complete and final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of >>>Nature" are mutable, destined to be replaced by more accurate laws >>>when the theories are improved. Theories are almost always based >>>on arbitrary parameters or "fundamental constants", in other >>>words, on quantities whose values are not explained by the theory, >>>but are >>>rather determined empirically and are merely accepted "a priori". >>>Quantum theory cannot explain the value used for the mass of an >>>electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons charge, or >>>relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical >>>view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no >>>further explanation. >> >You said: > >>Really these are seen as the measurement problems. >> >My reply: FINALLY, a bit of specifics. Now, are these "measurement >problems, as you say, or is it something else? Its something else. >You once again have totally missed the point. It has nothing to do >with the accuracy of the measurements. It has to do with the fact >that measurements have to be made in the first place, to obtain the >data, which is then inserted into the framework of the theory, and >accepted without knowing WHY the quantity is what it is, rather >than being PREDICTED by the theory, and then proven empirically. It >has to do with the fact that these measurements, no matter how >accurate, are not EXPLAINED. To KNOW (through empirical observation >and calculation) the value of C to the infinite decimal place, no >matter how accurately, does not in the slightest explain WHAT C is, >or WHY. don't get your shorts in a knot. I acknowledge this problem. It is the fact that fundamentals are measured not predicted. > >I said: > >>> Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations of >>>the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a >>>highly thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - >>>you must read and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, >>>particularly chapter 18 - Interpenetration - paraphrased to some >>>extent here), they should be explained, one by one, in future >>>theories as these theories are more and more accurately detailed >>>and improved. >> >You said: > >>Sorry, Capra is another pseudoscientist. I've read his nonsense >>and found it useless. >> >My reply: Once again, WHY?! Back up your emotional OPINION with >reason, fact and argument. Oh! Please! Get ahold of yourself. Capra is just as much in the dark about the universe as you are. People who pretend to be scientists and tackle certain problems using empirical methods where empiricism doesn't work are pseudoscientists who are practicing pathological science. > >I said: >> >>>It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which >>>accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some >>>unexplained features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will >>>require the acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts >>>which constitute the scientific language. >> >You said: > >>You are describing imperfect science. As long as you believe that >>the current definitions of science include the only acceptable means >>for obtaining knowledge then you miss the boat and so does the >>crippled dysfunctional processes which you refer to as 'science'. >> >My reply: There is no such thing as "perfect science". Yeah, sure. Believe whatever you want. What you don't know about you deny exists. This is your logic in a cup. >That's what this whole argument is about. So, what you are doing >here is restating your OPINION again, rather than logical reasons >for why you have that opinion. Oh but you would never do that, eh? ROFLOL > And please, what exactly is your definition of science? I think >that it must be quite different than everyone elses. You're probably right. When a shaman calls his dancing around and voodoo chicken feathers 'science' because it it related to his knowledge, however false it might be, of the universe then his 'science' is similar to and in agreement with that of many other shaman. Some of his patients live and some die. Some things that people died of ten years ago in the U.S. are curable today and it was all related to knowledge. Civil war doctors were butchers and shaman to modern medical science. And knowledge comes in two varieties (false and true). People die because of false knowledge. Science, if it is about anything is about knowledge. (Scientia = to know). But dreaming up theories is a knowledge generating practice and yet it may have little to do with true knowledge but it is a common practice. False knowledge is pseudo knowledge and is equivalent to pseudoscience. So much of modern science isn't really that much different from the fantasies of the shaman and the sad part is that you know the shaman is wrong but the shaman doesn't know he's wrong and he has a whole culture of shamanism to back him up. His science obtains its authority in consensus. There is precious little difference between what you endorse and believe to be valid and what the shaman believes and you have exactly the same authority, consensus. > Enlighten me, please, as to what exactly these other "means for >obtaining knowledge" are. Don't count on it. Get your head on straight first. > And while you are at it, define "acceptable" (valid? socially >acceptable? what?) and "knowledge" as well. Empirical observations >lead to knowledge (although not complete knowledge), and this is >"science". Experimental verification of theory leads to knowledge >(although not complete knowledge), and this is "science". This is >what is known as the scientific method - observation, postulation, >experimentation, verification or refutation. There is NO knowledge >that is not obtained by these means, so what exactly are you talking >about?! I don't think it would do much good to talk about anything with you because you apparently know everything already. You have already decided to assert that there is NO knowledge that is not obtained by these means. I'm sorry but you are a fool and you would limit the world to your own narrow ditch vision of the universe and science. I claim science as it is practiced by a great many people today is often pathological. You rant and rave and defend the indefensible making one unsupported assertion after another. And you say I'm emotional. Ha. You have your shorts in such an uproar one wonders how you can ever get them unknotted. :-). > >I said: > >>> >>> >>> There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up >>>these assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already >>>shot as it is), I'll save for later.\\ >> >You said: > >>You ought to just save them. > > >My reply: Pearls before swine. Except, of course, you are not the >only one here. LOL. Yes I suppose one man's treasures are another man's trash. Your treasures are pretty trashy fellow and they certainly aren't pearls but rather more like paste. > >You said: >> >>I think there is a better way to do science and I think that great >>men of science often simply stumbled upon them from time to time and >>really didn't comprehend how they managed to make a breakthrough. I >>would add with the caveat that the truly great men did probably know. >> >>C. Cagle >> >My reply: If there is indeed a "better way" than the scientific >method as currently in use, please enlighten us all as to what is, >so that we can benefit from your knowledge as well. But you couldn't benefit. You already have things lined up neat on your shelf and you think they are in the proper order. They aren't and you will never figure out why they aren't or how to put them in order or what to toss out and what to save. Your request for enlightenment is disingenuous. You know it, I know it. You can't have written what you have already written and suppose for an instant that there really is a better way...or that a better way could be revealed by the likes of me who disdains your every peep.:-) > Also, which great men are you refering to? At this point I'm >expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. Sorry to disappoint you. Hubbard isn't my idea of a great man. Sorry you consider him to be. Pascal would be one, perhaps Boyle or Charles. There are others but no one recent. >(Please!) But please, don't wrap your opinion in a thin veil of >poor logic and retoric in order to try to impress people. Most here >are really searching for something real and not interested in >unsupported speculation and wandering thought. > Tim Richardson You mean don't be like you. I never had any intention of wrapping my opinion in a thin veil of poor logic and retoric (sic) in order to try and impress people. You should have figured out by now I'm not interested in impressing people like you. But if you were interested you'd find that I've written quite a lot about epistemology. Its on usenet. Dig it up if you are really interested but I can't imagine that you really are. C. Cagle From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 20:57:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA05664; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:57:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:57:01 -0800 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:57:23 -0800 Subject: Tin Foil Space Drive Message-ID: <20000326.205724.-468875.3.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,6-7,9-10,12-21 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"W58tR.0.PO1.Sektu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14417 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If this is not an April fools joke and the mystery man is reporting his experiment accurately then the gravity-warp capacitor is also a free energy device. He reports that it starts to thrust almost immediately after apply the charge from VDG machine and continues after the generator is turned off. This means that very little electrical energy is actually applied. It would seem that you could use the space drive to turn a wheel, that would in turn, run the generator. Free energy and space drive propulsion all in one. And all with 19th century technology ! Michael Faraday or Ben Franklin could have gone to the moon ! Maybe the little green guys are not so high-tech after all. Fun to think about, eh ? Happy Dreams, Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 21:55:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19683; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:54:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:54:40 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000f01bf95fd$2bb65f60$d9d666ce@default> References: <000f01bf95fd$2bb65f60$d9d666ce@default> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:56:35 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: fake discoveries Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"4259X2.0.Op4.WUltu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14418 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > But we (the people of Earth) have such a primitive understanding of >science. How can we possiblely know if we are going about it in the right >way if we dont understand it? Step one would be to sit down and apply reason. > > > A completely justified fear since I think that in certain research >> areas there is a heavy population of fools. They know who they are >> and they live in fear of being exposed. > > I believe your interpretation of "fool" is different from Mr. Beaty's. >There is a difference between a fool and a person who fears being accused of >being a fool. Nope. I don't fear being accused of being an elephant and the person who isn't a fool sees being accused of being a fool as being just as ridiculous. The rational man knows that fools will think him a fool and he would be a fool if he feared that. Only fools are afraid of being thought to be fools. They know who they are and they fear exposure. > > Irrational. You are declaring in advance that there is no way to > > discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). You may not have found a >> way but you are being presumptuous in supposing that either there is >> no way or that no one has found it. > > If the universe is logical, there is a way. But we don't know if it is. Are you pregnant or do you just have a predilection to speak for others? >Regardless, we (the people of Earth) don't currently know how to discern >between the two. At least we don't know that we do (did you get that). Is there some other people that you know of? Some people not of the Earth? Shall we get out our foil hats now? :-). People have been taught how to access the Truth but they reject it > > > Type-two error: if our goal is to discover all truths, then we >> > invariably will accept many falsehoods as well (BELIEVER) >> >> Wrong again. You are merely supposing that believing all things >> means that one lacks the discriminatory quality which I say people >> can obtain but won't make the effort to obtain. > > I agree with the first part. But I believe that even if one made the >effort to obtain that discriminitory quality, it certainly doesn't mean >he/she will get it. And if one did get it, how would they know? Only those without it ask that. > > Then he's never really a believer but rather a skeptic trying to fake >> his way through life in the guise of one who is hopeful. When it >> comes right down to it money is the measure of whether or not someone >> believes because money is tangible and you can rub it between your >> fingers and buy groceries with it and cars and tools and pay your >> rent with it. When some one steps up to the plate and ponies up real >> cash then he's really a believer. He has a quantity of a quality > > that the rest of you lack and that is 'faith'. The rest of you can > > say you believe but you don't demonstrate your belief and hence your >> words fall to the ground empty and are nothing. Words have a >> tremendous power but when people spend time destroying the power of >> their own words then they get the reward they deserve which is a lack >> of faith. > > One who is logical shouldn't be blinded by faith, and faith is a gamble, >so there is ALWAYS a chance of being blinded. Faith isn't a gamble. You don't understand the nature of faith if you think it is a gamble. > > >The REAL challenge is to do the equivalent of convincing >> >"The Amazing Randi" that you have true psychic powers. And then >> >convincing him to part with some of that prize money he's accumulated! >> >> There's no way to beat some people's offers because they cannot or >> will not precisely define what constitutes 'proof' or 'evidence' for >> them. The 'latch point' where they believe is arbitrary and if some >> of their own cash is on the line then they never have to reach the >> latch point even if they secretly believe in their own heart. They >> can still refrain from issuing the prize. 'Proof' and 'evidence' >> are the same substance and the only thing that separates them is the > > magnitude. Both 'proof' and 'evidence' are the subjective >> interpretation of data, not the data itself. > > But "proof" equals certainty. There is no such thing as proof with our >(the people of Earth) primitive understanding of...everything... Proof does not equal certainty. Read above. 'Proof', like' evidence' is the subjective interpretation of data, not the data itself. What one man considers proof is not a standard for all. > > One ought to be able to show with some level of logic why the gravity >> capacitor ought to work rather than mere insistence that it does. >> If you haven't precisely identified the nature of gravity in the >> first place then to suppose that you have built a thing that somehow >> reduces it seems a little presumptuous and even a bit ridiculous. > > Don't get me started on understanding things. Just because you think you >understand somthing, just because you have supposed "proof", doesn't mean >your right...hey, there might not even be a "right" in this world... > > > What about antiknowledge, when what you "know" is incorrect. Scientia = to know. Pseudoscience = false knowledge (or processes which generate false knowledge). Amble over to http://www.singtech.com and see something interesting. -- Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 22:09:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23250; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:08:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:08:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005a01bf95fd$0b92d560$74641ece@computer> References: <005a01bf95fd$0b92d560$74641ece@computer> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:10:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: fake discoveries Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"2qF_G1.0.Ah5.ghltu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14419 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >C Cagle; >Do you have a product on the market? Or, are you too selling blue sky? Since I'm not selling it, the question is moot, or rife with innuendo. :-) What I am promoting is some new physics; not 'new' really but rather not in general knowledge. The physics is all verifiable via experiment and much of it has been verified. The concepts are straightforward and are derived from simple classical arguments. People who look for complexity find it. I looked for simplicity because I'm not a complex person. C. Cagle go to http://www.singtech.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 22:51:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA00907; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:51:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:51:30 -0800 Message-ID: <20000327065058.39030.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.49] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:50:58 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"3y6bC3.0.4E.nJmtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14420 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> >> Your arguments are emotional, and without any point whatsoever. >>Where are your LOGICAL refutations to my post? > >You demonstrate your confusion by what you write. see below. > >> >>I said: "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few >>really ASK. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown >>answers they have already shaped in their own minds - justifications, >>confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. >>To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind." >> >>You said: Indeed, but in an aphorism attributed to Pythagoras: >>'Having departed your house, turn not back; for the furies will be >>your attendants.' is contained the warning to not really go off on >>the >>search for Truth if you aren't willing to go clear to the end, for >>your life becomes miserable if you only go part way and then decide >>that you can't or don't want to ride that 'whirlwind'. It would be >>better for that person if he'd never set out in the first place. >> >>My reply to this: You simply took what I said (the point of what I >>said) restated it in another form, and are trying to use it as a >>counter to what I said in the first place! This is ridiculous. > >Your confusion here is in thinking that I disagreed with what you >said in your first paragraph. My response was meant as a >confirmation of the sentiment. It is with those little witless gems >that you toss out later that I disagree. > My reply - this is obviously a lie, unless English is a second language to you, in which case i would suggest that you review the meaning of various conjuctions, particularly "but", as in "Indeed, but..." >>I said: >> >>>>Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs >>>>of the human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and >>>>approximate. ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, >>>>and if you want to completely understand one, you must understand >>>>all, which is obviously impossible. >> >>You said: >> >>>Nonsense. You, having not understood it all, are nevertheless >>>making a fiat declaration, which you cannot back up, that complete >>>understanding is impossible. >> >>My reply: WHY have I not understood it at all? What are the >>REASONS?? Give me logic, not emotion. > >Quit being so pissy. You stated that ALL natural phenomenon are >ultimately interconnected but that is a fiat argument with no >substantiation. It is your opinion. It may be true and even I feel >that it is true but it is not logic. I think you are a hypocrite for >demanding logic when you yourself sashay right along bereft of it in >your writing which you turn around and do once more when you declare >that it is 'obviously impossible' to understand all. You don't >understand all perhaps but you have no reason for implying the >impossibility of a thing which you cannot do and impute your own >intellectual impotence to others. My reply (spoken in true Leonard Nimoy fashion): a demand for logic can hardly be called "pissy". LOL. Also, I never said that reality's interconnectedness was a logical deduction. I'm using it as a postulate in a logical syllogism. (and yes, it is my opinion, based on the solid bedrock of empirical observation over many centuries of scientific investigation) As far as the rest of that paragragh is concerned, think about what you are saying - that it is possible for a human being to know EVERYTHING. In which case he would cease to be human and would be God. > >> As far as my not backing it up, you simply miss the point of my >>argument - I did back it up. Tell me WHERE and WHY my argument >>fails, don't just say: (like a three year old) "thats not true"!! > >Absolute nonsense. You are blowing hot air and I don't even think >you realize it. > My reply - if you can't refute them logically, insult them and scream louder than they do seems to be your philosophy. > >>I said: >> >>>> The reason why science works so well is that approximations are >>>>possible. >> >>You said: >> >>>You are confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some >>>specific areas works very well but in general in exploring certain >>>questions works not at all even if there are hordes of people who >>>insist that it works well in those areas. They are simply confused >>>or lying or both. >> >>My reply: More emotion. More unsupported assertations. More vague >>statements that seem to say something, but really don't. > >And your insistence that science works well is ridiculous. Define >'well'. To your satisfaction? To the satisfaction of other empty >heads like yourself? Please get ahold of yourself. Your >pronouncements are rife with assumptions. > My reply: I define "well" (as it applies here) thusly - you are writing your insults and retoric to me on an incredibly sophisticated device which did not suddenly fall out of a parallel universe. It was designed. Your computer talks to other computers over a vast network which was designed. You drive to work everyday, in your sophisticated automobile, secure in the knowledge that you will probably not die of smallpox anytime soon, while your brother flies to Europe on a flying machine which in the long run is safer than your car, while at work you listen to sounds delivered by a transmitting media (some would argue here about the transmitting part, still questions there), which uses small currents induced in it by a transmitter many miles away, otherwise known as radio (thanks, Tesla!). All of these advantages (and countless more) were secured by ----(dramatic pause)----- science. Which was its goal. Not wishful thinking, not shouting louder than the other guy, but good old fasioned empirical R and D. Were it not for science, you would be nawing a piece of raw bear meat, in the dark, and cold, hoping that you could avoid providing a meal to other larger predaters. >>WHY am I "confused"? > >Because you think you understand when you don't. > My reply - More insulting, for lack of a logical response. >>What "specific areas" are you referring to? > >Cosmology, nuclear physics (specifically charged particle >interactions), nuclear fusion, stellar physics, geophysics, >evolution, plate tectonics, planetary physics (to name a few) > > My reply: OK, after reviewing the above paragraph - (You are confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some specific areas works very well but in general in exploring certain questions works not at all even if there are hordes of people who insist that it works well in those areas. They are simply confused or lying or both.) It seems that you are suggesting that science does very "well" in these areas. Personally i think most of these (and evolution in particular) are poor examples for your argument. Not to disparage these areas, but as in evolution - this is completly based on deductive and inductive reasoning (logic) with very little or no empirical evidence. Particle physics runs into serious Quantum snags which slow it down. I find it strange that these would be your choices. >>What are those "certain questions " where it "works not at all"? > >Questions associated with areas of investigation which is not >influenceable by the investigator. > My reply: this is not an answer. Which ones? Try to ignore the fact that there are no such areas as far as we know. >> Who are these "hordes of people"? > >Most people who what PBS and confuse popular pseudoscience with >'science' would be an example but in such cases it isn't just the >'pseudoscientists' but their audiences as well. > My reply: so what you're saying is that if you watch TV, you're an idiot. And we STILL don't know what these "certain questions" are. >>and much more importantly, WHAT exactly does all of this have to do >>with what we are discussing? Tie your statements together into SOME >>kind of logical framework. > >You have a short term memory loss or can't make the connection >without it being spelled out for you? Maybe you ought to lay off the >dope for a while. > My reply: This is a good example of the technique of making counter-accusations rather than answering the question. Socrates would be proud of you. >> For someone arguing about science, you really seem to have a poor >>grasp of just exactly what science is, and isn't. > >You're making hysterical comments now. Get a grip. > >My reply: Yet another example of the turn around ploy. Demonstrate that >you you can argue this out logically instead of emotionally, and I will >gladly retract my statement. >>> >>>> >> >>I said: >> >>>> Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and >>>>overtime become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent >>>>a >>>>complete and final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of >>>>Nature" are mutable, destined to be replaced by more accurate laws >>>>when the theories are improved. Theories are almost always based >>>>on arbitrary parameters or "fundamental constants", in other >>>>words, on quantities whose values are not explained by the theory, >>>>but are >>>>rather determined empirically and are merely accepted "a priori". >>>>Quantum theory cannot explain the value used for the mass of an >>>>electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons charge, or >>>>relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical >>>>view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no >>>>further explanation. >>> >>You said: >> >>>Really these are seen as the measurement problems. >>> >>My reply: FINALLY, a bit of specifics. Now, are these "measurement >>problems, as you say, or is it something else? Its something else. >>You once again have totally missed the point. It has nothing to do >>with the accuracy of the measurements. It has to do with the fact >>that measurements have to be made in the first place, to obtain the >>data, which is then inserted into the framework of the theory, and >>accepted without knowing WHY the quantity is what it is, rather >>than being PREDICTED by the theory, and then proven empirically. It >>has to do with the fact that these measurements, no matter how >>accurate, are not EXPLAINED. To KNOW (through empirical observation >>and calculation) the value of C to the infinite decimal place, no >>matter how accurately, does not in the slightest explain WHAT C is, >>or WHY. > >don't get your shorts in a knot. I acknowledge this problem. It is >the fact that fundamentals are measured not predicted. > >My reply: I have just unknotted my shorts. Thanks for the tip, I wondered >what all that pressure was. LOL >> >>I said: >> >>>> Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations of >>>>the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a >>>>highly thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - >>>>you must read and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, >>>>particularly chapter 18 - Interpenetration - paraphrased to some >>>>extent here), they should be explained, one by one, in future >>>>theories as these theories are more and more accurately detailed >>>>and improved. >>> >>You said: >> >>>Sorry, Capra is another pseudoscientist. I've read his nonsense >>>and found it useless. >>> >>My reply: Once again, WHY?! Back up your emotional OPINION with >>reason, fact and argument. > >Oh! Please! Get ahold of yourself. Capra is just as much in the >dark about the universe as you are. People who pretend to be >scientists and tackle certain problems using empirical methods where >empiricism doesn't work are pseudoscientists who are practicing >pathological science. > >My reply: Give me logic and/or reason or give me death!!! >>I said: >>> >>>>It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which >>>>accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some >>>>unexplained features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will >>>>require the acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts >>>>which constitute the scientific language. >>> >>You said: >> >>>You are describing imperfect science. As long as you believe that >>>the current definitions of science include the only acceptable means >>>for obtaining knowledge then you miss the boat and so does the >>>crippled dysfunctional processes which you refer to as 'science'. >>> >>My reply: There is no such thing as "perfect science". > >Yeah, sure. Believe whatever you want. What you don't know about >you deny exists. This is your logic in a cup. > My reply, I will agree that you cannot prove a negative, however, I was not speaking about out there in the limitless void somewhere, but rather here. On Earth. Where there is no "perfect science". Science, by its very nature, is incomplete. It is, in fact, defined by its incompleteness. If it were complete, as in all-encompassing, then it would cease to be science and become something else. If all knowledge ever were to be fully known and understood, then science would not be needed anymore. Or perhaps you mean that experimental procedures can be carried out in a perfect way? What would this entail? Being really, really, really careful? Or that its possible to have perfect logic and reason. Of course, in order to reason perfectly you would need perfect data to reason about (just for a start, not to mention a perfect brain, and perfect systems of thought and logic). Where exactly did you aquire this and how do you know its perfect? You didn't do it scientifically - chicken or egg? >>That's what this whole argument is about. So, what you are doing >>here is restating your OPINION again, rather than logical reasons >>for why you have that opinion. > >Oh but you would never do that, eh? ROFLOL > My reply: of course I'm doing that, ding-dong, go back to the very beginning of this discussion and read my opening remark about it ALL being opinion and human mental constructs that only "approximate' reality. However, the difference between you and me is that my opinions are based on reason, logic, and science, while yours are based on emotionalism, retoric, and insults. >> And please, what exactly is your definition of science? I think >>that it must be quite different than everyone elses. > >You're probably right. When a shaman calls his dancing around and >voodoo chicken feathers 'science' because it it related to his >knowledge, however false it might be, of the universe then his >'science' is similar to and in agreement with that of many other >shaman. Some of his patients live and some die. Some things that >people died of ten years ago in the U.S. are curable today and it was >all related to knowledge. Civil war doctors were butchers and shaman >to modern medical science. And knowledge comes in two varieties >(false and true). People die because of false knowledge. Science, >if it is about anything is about knowledge. (Scientia = to know). >But dreaming up theories is a knowledge generating practice and yet >it may have little to do with true knowledge but it is a common >practice. False knowledge is pseudo knowledge and is equivalent to >pseudoscience. So much of modern science isn't really that much >different from the fantasies of the shaman and the sad part is that >you know the shaman is wrong but the shaman doesn't know he's wrong >and he has a whole culture of shamanism to back him up. His science >obtains its authority in consensus. There is precious little >difference between what you endorse and believe to be valid and what >the shaman believes and you have exactly the same authority, >consensus. > My reply: Modern science does not obtain it validity from "consensus". More bitter rival concepts, ideas, arguments, and such are to be found in science as nowhere else. Scientists are a viscious lot! : ) As it should be. >> Enlighten me, please, as to what exactly these other "means for >>obtaining knowledge" are. > >Don't count on it. Get your head on straight first. > My reply: OK, i checked in the mirror and its good. >> And while you are at it, define "acceptable" (valid? socially >>acceptable? what?) and "knowledge" as well. Empirical observations >>lead to knowledge (although not complete knowledge), and this is >>"science". Experimental verification of theory leads to knowledge >>(although not complete knowledge), and this is "science". This is >>what is known as the scientific method - observation, postulation, >>experimentation, verification or refutation. There is NO knowledge >>that is not obtained by these means, so what exactly are you talking >>about?! > >I don't think it would do much good to talk about anything with you >because you apparently know everything already. You have already >decided to assert that there is NO knowledge that is not obtained by >these means. I'm sorry but you are a fool and you would limit the >world to your own narrow ditch vision of the universe and science. > My reply: You just turned my statement "one can't know everything" around to accuse me of saying i know everything. Surely you can see how ridiculuos this is. If you decide that when I say black, I mean white, and am therefore a fool, feel free. I will give you this much - i should have said "scientific knowledge", as there is some value in intuitive knowledge (i.e. Zen) but that is not particullary relevent to this discussion, as we are discussing science at the moment. I claim science as it is practiced by a great many people today is >often pathological. You rant and rave and defend the indefensible >making one unsupported assertion after another. And you say I'm >emotional. Ha. You have your shorts in such an uproar one wonders >how you can ever get them unknotted. :-). > >my reply: Once again - I never stated that there wasn't a great deal of >poor and "pathological" "science" out there. In fact, most of my arguments >are about the imperfections of science. You are the one going on about >"perfect science". And yes, you are emotional. Furthermore, I never >ranted and I only raved once. : ) >> >>I said: >> >>>> >>>> >>>> There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up >>>>these assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already >>>>shot as it is), I'll save for later.\\ >>> >>You said: >> >>>You ought to just save them. >> >> >>My reply: Pearls before swine. Except, of course, you are not the >>only one here. LOL. > >Yes I suppose one man's treasures are another man's trash. Your >treasures are pretty trashy fellow and they certainly aren't pearls >but rather more like paste. > >My reply: fair jibes, poor reason. >> >>You said: >>> >>>I think there is a better way to do science and I think that great >>>men of science often simply stumbled upon them from time to time and >>>really didn't comprehend how they managed to make a breakthrough. I >>>would add with the caveat that the truly great men did probably know. >>> >>>C. Cagle >>> >>My reply: If there is indeed a "better way" than the scientific >>method as currently in use, please enlighten us all as to what is, >>so that we can benefit from your knowledge as well. > >But you couldn't benefit. You already have things lined up neat on >your shelf and you think they are in the proper order. They aren't >and you will never figure out why they aren't or how to put them in >order or what to toss out and what to save. Your request for >enlightenment is disingenuous. You know it, I know it. You can't >have written what you have already written and suppose for an instant >that there really is a better way...or that a better way could be >revealed by the likes of me who disdains your every peep.:-) > My reply: (see above) >> Also, which great men are you refering to? At this point I'm >>expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. > >Sorry to disappoint you. Hubbard isn't my idea of a great man. >Sorry you consider him to be. Pascal would be one, perhaps Boyle or >Charles. There are others but no one recent. My reply: Good cut of the sentence to attempt to distort meaning!! Here is how I said it: "Also, which great men are you refering to? At this point I'm expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. (Please!)" This is a disparaging remark, as your logic is similar to his. Don't try to twist my words. >>(Please!) But please, don't wrap your opinion in a thin veil of >>poor logic and retoric in order to try to impress people. Most here >>are really searching for something real and not interested in >>unsupported speculation and wandering thought. >> > Tim Richardson > >You mean don't be like you. I never had any intention of wrapping >my opinion in a thin veil of poor logic and retoric (sic) in order to >try and impress people. You should have figured out by now I'm not >interested in impressing people like you. But if you were interested >you'd find that I've written quite a lot about epistemology. Its on >usenet. Dig it up if you are really interested but I can't imagine >that you really are. C. Cagle > my reply: Ahem. This is exactly what you are doing. Before you post further, you really need to decide whether you support science, or not, and before you do that, you need to learn exactly what science is, and isn't. At any rate, I see no further value in this discussion, unless of course, you would like to discuss it logically? : ) Do so, and i will reply, don't and i won't. Tim Richardson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 06:26:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA10022; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:26:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:26:06 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:25:06 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Easy Fusion from spare parts? X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dcO7q.0.VS2.-zstu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14421 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All (Especially Jean-Louis), While we're looking at power supplies for this and that, have a look at: http://www.mathematik.uni-marburg.de/~kronjaeg/hv/fusor/construction/index.html It descibes a compact and powerful, HV-based (albeit pretty dangerous) fusion device. James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 06:53:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA20387; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:53:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:53:25 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <17.37025f8.2610cfb8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:52:40 EST Subject: Re: Easy Fusion from spare parts? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id GAA20362 Resent-Message-ID: <"LIbT33.0.N-4.aNttu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14422 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 27/03/00 16:29:05 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été), finalheaven@angelfire.com a écrit : > Dear All (Especially Jean-Louis), > Thanks James, Jean-Louis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 07:11:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA24859; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:11:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:11:10 -0800 Message-ID: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:10:46 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, exotic@casagrande.com Subject: My First Radiant Energy Product! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GGHfd.0.K46.Eettu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14423 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear List Members, I am now happy to announce that yesterday all testing was completed on my solid-state radiant energy valve design. I will be manufacturing about twenty or so of these to be sold for the first time at the upcoming July Conference. They will be sold for $50.00 each at the conference. If I run out they can be back ordered for this price. After the conference has ended the price will go to $75.00 each. This component will be demonstrated and shown what it can do. Many applications are possible using this component. Anyone will be invited to test it with my multi-meter, or they may use their own meter. The entire radiant energy circuit will be mounted on a flat pvc-sheet for hands-on testing. However, the inner components of the radiant energy valve are encapsultated in a special resin that can not be cut with a hack-saw. This is done to avoid duplication by people who are deemed unworthy of this technology. This component will be shown to be electrically dead ruling out any type of battery hidden inside its casing. With any luck my power fuel cells will be ready as a product by this fall. Their relationship to the radiant energy circuit will be demonstrated this July at the Exotic Research Conference. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 08:00:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08746; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:00:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:00:08 -0800 Message-ID: <38DF8588.7A114A35@microtec.net> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:00:08 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tin Foil Space Drive References: <20000326.205724.-468875.3.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KaAs32.0.T82.8Mutu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14424 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: maybe there's a way to directly extract solid state electric power with this capacitor tv@juno.com wrote: > If this is not an April fools joke and the mystery man is reporting his > experiment accurately then the gravity-warp capacitor is also a free > energy device. He reports that it starts to thrust almost immediately > after apply the charge from VDG machine and continues after the generator > is turned off. This means that very little electrical energy is actually > applied. > > It would seem that you could use the space drive to turn a wheel, that > would in turn, run the generator. > > Free energy and space drive propulsion all in one. And all with 19th > century technology ! > > Michael Faraday or Ben Franklin could have gone to the moon ! > > Maybe the little green guys are not so high-tech after all. > > Fun to think about, eh ? > > Happy Dreams, Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 08:48:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25189; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:48:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:48:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:48:33 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tin Foil Space Drive In-Reply-To: <20000326.205724.-468875.3.tv@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4aOsa.0.U96.b3vtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14425 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 tv@juno.com wrote: > > If this is not an April fools joke and the mystery man is reporting his > experiment accurately then the gravity-warp capacitor is also a free > energy device. He reports that it starts to thrust almost immediately > after apply the charge from VDG machine and continues after the generator > is turned off. This means that very little electrical energy is actually > applied. > > It would seem that you could use the space drive to turn a wheel, that > would in turn, run the generator. Yes, unless acceleration of the capacitor causes the effect to decrease. It could generate an unexplained force, yet still conserve energy. (Yet from the description, this seems NOT to be the case.) If I understand it, to null out the weight of a mass is the same as lifting that mass to infinite height. It takes a certain amount of energy to do this. If the "gravity capacitor" doesn't need this energy used, then it could be used in a F/E machine. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 10:04:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09112; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:02:51 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:02:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38DFA24C.30F0@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:02:52 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My First Radiant Energy Product! References: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> <38DF7FE9.C83A783@fca.unju.edu.ar> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9Tpis2.0.BE2.49wtu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14426 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Pablo Bonutto wrote: > > Dear Bruce: > * There is some form that the members of this list can access to your > solid-state radiant energy valve (for those that we cannot attend the > conference) I'll tell you what... anyone who sends me an email with their name and address by July 29, 2000 can reserve one "ion valve" for my introductory price of fifty ($50USD). Please write; "Please Reserve my ION VALVE" in the Subject line. -Bruce A. Perreault > * Can you show the actual values of your solid-state radiant energy valve > (volts, amps, etc.) > > CONGRATULATION! and don't STOP! > Best regards. > Pablo. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 10:09:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24591; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:09:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:09:00 -0800 Message-ID: <38DFA3CC.61B4@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:09:16 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My First Radiant Energy Product! /// Cum on Dude,,,,you know we all,,,, References: <001501bf9865$b70f1100$83570418@Gary.ocnsd1.sdca.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wRlSB.0.806.yEwtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14427 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gary Young wrote: > > want one,,,,,think about this: Sell some to us before the conferance, so we > can also put together competed devices and we can help you show and tell at > the conferance. what kind of power handling capability does it have?,,,,,I > told my wife about the conferance and she says she would like to go,,,,,Gary No... because it is important to demonstrate just exactly what it does first. I want people to know exactly what it is that they are buying. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 10:19:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28329; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:18:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:18:50 -0800 Message-ID: <38DFA617.525@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:19:03 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Travis Waites CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: My First Radiant Energy Product! References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CB@zeus.dsalaska.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IaliG3.0.Uw6.8Owtu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14428 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Travis Waites wrote: > > This is indeed good news! Will you be posting any pictures on your web site? There is not much to look at... it is about 3.5 inches long x 1-1/4 inches in diameter. Has an antenna input lead at the top, ground and output lead at the bottom. The materials are encapsulated in clear tubing that has two end caps. The component is dead until it is properly connected to an antenna and earth ground... it must also be fed by the high-voltage, high-frequency power supply that I have posted to my website, and must be tuned. The component functions as an ion valve... it does not "rectify" alternating current. It does what the "Moray valve" was intended to do. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 11:25:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23205; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:24:25 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:24:25 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:24:02 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: "Grav-cap" is a F/E oscillator? In-Reply-To: <38DF8588.7A114A35@microtec.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uK_K11.0.Jg5.WLxtu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14429 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, patrick tremblay wrote: > maybe there's a way to directly extract solid state electric power with > this capacitor If the "grav-cap" acts as an energy source AT ALL, then there's a good chance that it will break into oscillation somehow, or become warm for no apparent reason. Below is some speculation, but informed by the lore of the free-energy community. If the Grav-cap can act as an energy source, I wouldn't be suprised if there were powerful RF standing waves inside it, or some EM pulses spinning around, travelling along the circular plates. If those slots in the tinfoil really are necessary, maybe they have a "conventional" purpose: to break the device up into an array of coupled RF resonators. Perhaps the VandeGraaff doesn't even "power" it, perhaps the VDG just gets the F/E effect going, and afterwards the flow of F/E runs everything. (If so, it's lucky the reaction is self-limiting, or the darned thing would melt or explode.) One thing to test: once the capacitor is charged up and producing a thrust, remove the charging source and connect a resistor across the capacitor. Does it discharge and stop working? Or instead does the grav-cap create a continuing current in the resistor (perhaps AC, perhaps high-freq) which heats the resistor? If not, does the thrusting force vary with the level of voltage? Maybe after the grav-cap is started, it can be discharged almost totally, yet the gravitylike force will not get any less. (And after a CW or CCW vortex is triggered at a bathtub drain, the triggering energy can stop, yet the vortex continues.) If a F/E effect provides a power supply, all sorts of interesting things can happen. One result from Cold Fusion experiments is that the CF electrodes develop a sort of slow "heartbeat." Everyone has probably noticed that the grav-cap's plates look like a microwave magnetron. In a conventional magnetron, the electrons flowing across a large potential- drop act as a local power supply, and the magnetron's microwave oscillations are spontaneous (they grow as they feed off of the energy of the electron flow.) Maybe the "grav-cap" is truely a magnetron, but a magnetron where the microwave fields tap into an unknown energy source in order to keep self-oscillating. No electron space-charge, so no vacuum environment needed. Hmmmm. I've heard rumors that the power output of microwave magnetrons is much higher than theory predicts. And remember the Floyd Sweet and Tom Bearden experiments with the "Sweet Device", where the higher the F/E output, the greater the antigrav effect. Mabye the grav-cap is just a free-energy microwave device, but only this antigrav effect is immediately obvious, and the energy output hasn't yet been discovered. Maybe the wax paper is getting hot, and if we used a better dielectric than wax, the energy flow into heating would be zero, and the thrust would go away. How about acoustics? A friend mentions that tin has an interesting feature: when bent, it squeals. If this squealing sound is actually a F/E effect, then perhaps those tin capacitor plates wiggle a bit, which makes them output some excess acoustic energy, which makes them wiggle more, which creates even more sound, and the whole thing has loud ultrasound bouncing around inside it. If so, then construction is critical, and if the layers aren't compressed by end-plates, conditions for oscillation will be incorrect. Or for example, if we immersed the whole thing in oil, or used rigid plastic dielectric sheets instead of wax paper, then the acoustic conditions would be wrong, and the gravitylike thrust would vanish. This highlights the fact that an exact replication of "weird science" claims is always important. If we don't know how it works, any changes might destroy the effect. It's very lucky that these slotted-rings apparently produce the strange effect. What if the original plans describe a genuine effect, but the separate squares of tinfoil were critical, and a single slotted sheet of foil wouldn't work? Anyhow, if single die-cut foil layers do work, construction is LOTS simpler, so our anonymous inventor has verified that one obvious improvement doesn't spoil the effect. > tv@juno.com wrote: > > > If this is not an April fools joke and the mystery man is reporting his > > experiment accurately then the gravity-warp capacitor is also a free > > energy device. He reports that it starts to thrust almost immediately > > after apply the charge from VDG machine and continues after the generator > > is turned off. This means that very little electrical energy is actually > > applied. Exactly. Maybe the voltage from the VDG triggers the F/E effect, like synchronous motor and tornados. Both need an initial spin to get started. Maybe if the operating grav-cap is discharged in just the right way, the thrust won't stop. > > It would seem that you could use the space drive to turn a wheel, that > > would in turn, run the generator. Mount small tangentially-aimed grav-caps on the edge of a horizontal metal ring and let it loose. Maybe it will demonstrate that Searl and Hamel were entirely truthful, and it will spin fast, glow green, then blast upwards into the stratosphere. Or if there are any AC effects inside, maybe electrical energy can be extracted directly with a pickup coil, or by putting a tuned piezo plate into the stack. Or just by coupling any AC out of the main terminals. Once the operation is understood, it might be possible to plate millions of tin circles onto a single piezoceramic plate, and have it burst into spontaeous oscillation. Put it in a laptop computer, and not only leave your computer turned on forever, but have it weigh less than competing brands! > > Maybe the little green guys are not so high-tech after all. There was a recent story in an SF mag where some primitive "space pirates" fly their wooden-hulled spaceship (w/gravity drive and space warp capability) down to Earth, after verifying that no gravity technology is being used here. They expect to walk in and take over with their gunpowder cannons and blunderbuss firearms. They are met by choppers and modern ground troops. To their horror, they realize that they've just doomed their entire spacefaring civilization, because they've just given the secret of star-drive to a warlike culture who has supersonic fighter jets and automatic weapons. Maybe the reason that "grey aliens" don't land on the whitehouse lawn and announce their presence, is that they're terrified that Earth's technology will become known in their culture, and will wreck everything. Maybe it's not "oil companies" who want gravity engines and F/E power supplies kept out of the hand of the Earthmen. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 12:44:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12621; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:42:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:42:49 -0800 Message-ID: <38DFD576.E1FB11E3@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:41:10 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com, exotic@casagrande.com Subject: PURCHASE INQUIRY References: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MsO8y1.0.553.7Vytu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14430 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bruce, I've been thinking about buying some of the Uranyl Nitrate from you. A few questions; 1.) The province I live in is suspected of suffering heavy forest fires this year, this is especially bad since we;ve had increasiong numbers constantly over the last three years. Last year I appear to have successfully abated some of the drought with a cloudbuster I built (CB). My question to you, can I use Uranyl Nitrate to enhance the effectiveness of the CB in the abatement of drought? 2.) Can you ship Uranyl Nitrate to Canada? 3.) Can you tell me what the special handling instructions for this element are and or where I can find this info? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 12:50:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA14946; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:50:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:50:08 -0800 Message-ID: <38DFD731.4BEEDD8@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:48:33 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net CC: Nu Energy Horizons , freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My First Radiant Energy Product! References: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> <38DF7FE9.C83A783@fca.unju.edu.ar> <38DFA24C.30F0@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6QueR2.0.Rf3._bytu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14431 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bruce, what exaclty can your valve be used for? Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > Pablo Bonutto wrote: > > > > Dear Bruce: > > * There is some form that the members of this list can access to your > > solid-state radiant energy valve (for those that we cannot attend the > > conference) > > I'll tell you what... anyone who sends me an email with their > name and address by July 29, 2000 can reserve one "ion valve" > for my introductory price of fifty ($50USD). > > Please write; "Please Reserve my ION VALVE" in the Subject line. > > -Bruce A. Perreault > > > * Can you show the actual values of your solid-state radiant energy valve > > (volts, amps, etc.) > > > > CONGRATULATION! and don't STOP! > > Best regards. > > Pablo. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 13:50:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00310; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:50:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:50:09 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000327065058.39030.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <20000327065058.39030.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 03:12:28 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: fake discoveries Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"2dbr92.0.z_7.HUztu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14432 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> >My reply - this is obviously a lie, unless English is a second >language to you, in which case i would suggest that you review the >meaning of various conjuctions, particularly "but", as in "Indeed, >but..." Now you're simply being an asshole. >>> >> >>Quit being so pissy. You stated that ALL natural phenomenon are >>ultimately interconnected but that is a fiat argument with no >>substantiation. It is your opinion. It may be true and even I feel >>that it is true but it is not logic. I think you are a hypocrite for >>demanding logic when you yourself sashay right along bereft of it in >>your writing which you turn around and do once more when you declare >>that it is 'obviously impossible' to understand all. You don't >>understand all perhaps but you have no reason for implying the >>impossibility of a thing which you cannot do and impute your own >>intellectual impotence to others. > >My reply (spoken in true Leonard Nimoy fashion): a demand for logic >can hardly be called "pissy". LOL. Laugh all you want. You are still a fool. You appeal to Leonard Nimoy? An actor? Now that is an occasion to LOL. You watch too much TV that you confuse actors with their characters. > Also, I never said that reality's interconnectedness was a logical >deduction. No. You silly ass, you didn't; you simply asserted it and then had the bad taste to play the hypocrite when I asserted something. >I'm using it as a postulate in a logical syllogism. You shouldn't use words with which you have no familiarity with their meaning or functional usage. >(and yes, it is my opinion, based on the solid bedrock of empirical >observation Empirical observation? Pray tell how does that differ from plain observation? You are such a pretentious fool Tim. > over many centuries of scientific investigation) As far as the >rest of that paragragh is concerned, think about what you are saying >- that it is possible for a human being to know EVERYTHING. In >which case he would cease to be human and would be God. How do you know that? Are you claiming to be God? Are you claiming to comprehend God ? >> >>> As far as my not backing it up, you simply miss the point of my >>>argument - I did back it up. Tell me WHERE and WHY my argument >>>fails, don't just say: (like a three year old) "thats not true"!! >> > >>Absolute nonsense. You are blowing hot air and I don't even think >>you realize it. >> > My reply - if you can't refute them logically, insult them and >scream louder than they do seems to be your philosophy. More hysterical nattering. You really don't know when you are pissing all over yourself do you? Above you cast out one of your nitwit insults "...don't just say: (like a three year old)..." and then are so disconnected from what you do as a matter of course in your dialog (spew out insults) that you aren't even embarrassed when you accuse others of it. > >> >>>I said: >>> >>>>> The reason why science works so well is that approximations are possible. >>> >>>You said: >>> >>>>You are confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some >>>>specific areas works very well but in general in exploring certain >>>>questions works not at all even if there are hordes of people who >>>>insist that it works well in those areas. They are simply confused >>>>or lying or both. >>> >>>My reply: More emotion. More unsupported assertations. More vague >>>statements that seem to say something, but really don't. >> >>And your insistence that science works well is ridiculous. Define >>'well'. To your satisfaction? To the satisfaction of other empty >>heads like yourself? Please get ahold of yourself. Your >>pronouncements are rife with assumptions. >> >My reply: I define "well" (as it applies here) thusly - you are >writing your insults and retoric to me on an incredibly >sophisticated device which did not suddenly fall out of a parallel >universe. It was designed. Your computer talks to other computers >over a vast network which was designed. You drive to work everyday, >in your sophisticated automobile, secure in the knowledge that you >will probably not die of smallpox anytime soon, while your brother >flies to Europe on a flying machine which in the long run is safer >than your car, while at work you listen to sounds delivered by a >transmitting media (some would argue here about the transmitting >part, still questions there), which uses small currents induced in >it by a transmitter many miles away, otherwise known as radio >(thanks, Tesla!). All of these advantages (and countless more) were >secured by ----(dramatic pause)----- science. Which was its goal. >Not wishful thinking, not shouting louder than the other guy, but >good old fasioned empirical R and D. Were it not for science, you >would be nawing a piece of raw bear meat, in the dark, and cold, >hoping that you could avoid providing a meal to other larger >predaters. More hysteria and ranting on your part. Science must be your savior but it isn't mine. You have confused ordinary empirical scientific methods ('tweaking and fiddling' processes) which are important to technology generation and improvement with pseudoscience speculations in the specific areas of Cosmology, nuclear physics (specifically charged particle interactions), nuclear fusion, stellar physics, geophysics, evolution, plate tectonics, planetary physics (to name a few). > >>>WHY am I "confused"? >> >>Because you think you understand when you don't. >> >My reply - More insulting, for lack of a logical response. You are a fool. You asked why you were confused and when told you considered it an insult rather than a clue to get a clue. > >>>What "specific areas" are you referring to? >> >>Cosmology, nuclear physics (specifically charged particle >>interactions), nuclear fusion, stellar physics, geophysics, >>evolution, plate tectonics, planetary physics (to name a few) >> >My reply: OK, after reviewing the above paragraph - (You are >confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some specific >areas works very well but in general in exploring certain questions >works not at all even if there are hordes of people who insist that >it works well in those areas. They are simply confused or lying or >both.) > >It seems that you are suggesting that science does very "well" in >these areas. Personally i think most of these (and evolution in >particular) are poor examples for your argument. Not to disparage >these areas, but as in evolution - this is completly based on >deductive and inductive reasoning (logic) with very little or no >empirical evidence. Particle physics runs into serious Quantum snags >which slow it down. I find it strange that these would be your >choices. Both were referred to as "areas" by me. I missed your emphasis on 'specific areas' as a quote of what I had written and thought you were asking what areas did I think ordinary empirical methods don't work well in. My response was Cosmology, nuclear physics (specifically charged particle interactions), nuclear fusion, stellar physics, geophysics, evolution, plate tectonics, planetary physics (to name a few). Specific areas where empirical methods do well are in the tweak and fiddle methods of technology improvement and generation. > >>>What are those "certain questions " where it "works not at all"? >> >>Questions associated with areas of investigation which is not >>influenceable by the investigator. >> >My reply: this is not an answer. Which ones? Try to ignore the fact >that there are no such areas as far as we know. You are such a fool. It is a precise answer. When you don't understand an answer then is it your normal response to deny that an answer had been given? The core of a star, for instance, is not under the experimental manipulation or influence of the investigator. He can observe some aspects of the star but he doesn't operate on the star. The hypothetical emergence of man from Africanus or some other suggested sub-human hominid is not even directly observable nor can it be made subject to experimental influence from the investigator. The speculated nuclear fusion processes in the core of the Sun are not directly observable nor can their parameters be controlled by the investigators. > >>> Who are these "hordes of people"? >> >>Most people who what PBS and confuse popular pseudoscience with >>'science' would be an example but in such cases it isn't just the >>'pseudoscientists' but their audiences as well. >> >My reply: so what you're saying is that if you watch TV, you're an idiot. If you believe the pseudoscience which often characterizes PBS shows then you are an idiot. Why take things to witless extremes. One doesn't become an idiot by watching TV but rather by believing things that aren't so. Whether falsehood comes over TV, Radio, Newspaper, Magazine or whatever isn't important - what is important is whether or not you believe the nonsense and go all warm and fuzzy over bad science thought to be excellent science by the pseudoscientists who spew it (and much of their audience). >And we STILL don't know what these "certain questions" are. > >>>and much more importantly, WHAT exactly does all of this have to do >>>with what we are discussing? Tie your statements together into SOME >>>kind of logical framework. >> >>You have a short term memory loss or can't make the connection >>without it being spelled out for you? Maybe you ought to lay off the >>dope for a while. >> >My reply: This is a good example of the technique of making >counter-accusations rather than answering the question. Socrates >would be proud of you. Socrates can't be proud of me. Socrates is dead. For him to be proud of me would imply there was a way for that to occur. Since there isn't then your hypothesis is just more nattering nonsense. Give it a break will you? > >>> For someone arguing about science, you really seem to have a poor >>>grasp of just exactly what science is, and isn't. >> >>You're making hysterical comments now. Get a grip. >> >>My reply: Yet another example of the turn around ploy. >>Demonstrate that you you can argue this out logically instead of >>emotionally, and I will gladly retract my statement. No nitwit. I would just as soon let you labor under your delusions. >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>I said: >>> >>>>> Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and >>>>>overtime become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent >>>>>a >>>>>complete and final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of >>>>>Nature" are mutable, destined to be replaced by more accurate laws >>>>>when the theories are improved. Theories are almost always based >>>>>on arbitrary parameters or "fundamental constants", in other >>>>>words, on quantities whose values are not explained by the theory, >>>>>but are >>>>>rather determined empirically and are merely accepted "a priori". >>>>>Quantum theory cannot explain the value used for the mass of an >>>>>electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons charge, or >>>>>relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical >>>>>view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no >>>>>further explanation. >>>> >>>You said: >>> >>>>Really these are seen as the measurement problems. >>>> >>>My reply: FINALLY, a bit of specifics. Now, are these "measurement >>>problems, as you say, or is it something else? Its something else. >>>You once again have totally missed the point. It has nothing to do >>>with the accuracy of the measurements. It has to do with the fact >>>that measurements have to be made in the first place, to obtain the >>>data, which is then inserted into the framework of the theory, and >>>accepted without knowing WHY the quantity is what it is, rather >>>than being PREDICTED by the theory, and then proven empirically. It >>>has to do with the fact that these measurements, no matter how >>>accurate, are not EXPLAINED. To KNOW (through empirical observation >>>and calculation) the value of C to the infinite decimal place, no >>>matter how accurately, does not in the slightest explain WHAT C is, >>>or WHY. >> >>don't get your shorts in a knot. I acknowledge this problem. It is >>the fact that fundamentals are measured not predicted. >> >>My reply: I have just unknotted my shorts. Thanks for the tip, I >>wondered what all that pressure was. LOL >>> >>>I said: >>> >>>>> Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations of >>>>>the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a >>>>>highly thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - >>>>>you must read and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, >>>>>particularly chapter 18 - Interpenetration - paraphrased to some >>>>>extent here), they should be explained, one by one, in future >>>>>theories as these theories are more and more accurately detailed >>>>>and improved. >>>> >>>You said: >>> >>>>Sorry, Capra is another pseudoscientist. I've read his nonsense >>>>and found it useless. >>>> >>>My reply: Once again, WHY?! Back up your emotional OPINION with >>>reason, fact and argument. >> >>Oh! Please! Get ahold of yourself. Capra is just as much in the >>dark about the universe as you are. People who pretend to be >>scientists and tackle certain problems using empirical methods where >>empiricism doesn't work are pseudoscientists who are practicing >>pathological science. >> >>My reply: Give me logic and/or reason or give me death!!! Logic is a tool. Comparing it to a gun you can load it with bad ammo and it backfires. I think you've had enough backfires that you'll die without any help from me. A posteriori argument doesn't work for certain questions or areas of research because you cannot arrive at certainties using induction in those areas. So how does one deal with such areas? They must use a priori argument and modeling which is different than theory making. Theory making is ego generated and is exemplified by people attempting to impose their interpretation of the data upon the data. Proper models are apocalyptic and they emerge when the ego does not impose its interpretation upon the data. The relationship between the ego and objective knowledge is an inverse one: Obj = 1/ego (subjectivism). Proper science where objective truth is obtained as an end is conducted after this manner. It turns out that the highest level of scientific activity is related to people doing things which are prescribed as religious activities. Submission to God = diminishment of the ego. It's not just good religion, its good science. > >>>I said: >>>> >>>>>It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which >>>>>accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some >>>>>unexplained features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will >>>>>require the acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts >>>>>which constitute the scientific language. >>>> >>>You said: >>> >>>>You are describing imperfect science. As long as you believe that >>>>the current definitions of science include the only acceptable means >>>>for obtaining knowledge then you miss the boat and so does the >>>>crippled dysfunctional processes which you refer to as 'science'. >>>> >>>My reply: There is no such thing as "perfect science". >> >>Yeah, sure. Believe whatever you want. What you don't know about >>you deny exists. This is your logic in a cup. >> >My reply, I will agree that you cannot prove a negative, however, I >was not speaking about out there in the limitless void somewhere, >but rather here. On Earth. Where there is no "perfect science". >Science, by its very nature, is incomplete. Nonsense. Now you attempt to define science as incomplete by nature. This is ridiculous. > It is, in fact, defined by its incompleteness. If it were >complete, as in all-encompassing, then it would cease to be science >and become something else. Science > Scientia > knowledge. Knowledge can be complete. Your personal possession of it has always been incomplete during your Earthly sojourn but to define perfect knowledge or complete knowledge as not knowledge is simply arbitrary, capricious, and wrongheaded. > If all knowledge ever were to be fully known and understood, then >science would not be needed Nonsensical statement which demonstrates ignorance of the etymology of the word science. > >>>That's what this whole argument is about. So, what you are doing >>>here is restating your OPINION again, rather than logical reasons >>>for why you have that opinion. >> >>Oh but you would never do that, eh? ROFLOL >> >My reply: of course I'm doing that, ding-dong, go back to the very >beginning of this discussion and read my opening remark about it ALL >being opinion and human mental constructs that only "approximate' >reality. However, the difference between you and me is that my >opinions are based on reason, logic, and science, while yours are >based on emotionalism, retoric, and insults. You don't even know when you are being a hypocrite. That's why it is such fun watching you flop about on the line. I confess I do get emotional - I'm laughing enough to get tears in my eyes at the way you demonstrate what a world class fool you can be. LOF >>> And please, what exactly is your definition of science? I think >>>that it must be quite different than everyone elses. >> >>You're probably right. When a shaman calls his dancing around and >>voodoo chicken feathers 'science' because it it related to his >>knowledge, however false it might be, of the universe then his >>'science' is similar to and in agreement with that of many other >>shaman. Some of his patients live and some die. Some things that >>people died of ten years ago in the U.S. are curable today and it was >>all related to knowledge. Civil war doctors were butchers and shaman >>to modern medical science. And knowledge comes in two varieties >>(false and true). People die because of false knowledge. Science, >>if it is about anything is about knowledge. (Scientia = to know). >>But dreaming up theories is a knowledge generating practice and yet >>it may have little to do with true knowledge but it is a common >>practice. False knowledge is pseudo knowledge and is equivalent to >>pseudoscience. So much of modern science isn't really that much >>different from the fantasies of the shaman and the sad part is that >>you know the shaman is wrong but the shaman doesn't know he's wrong >>and he has a whole culture of shamanism to back him up. His science >>obtains its authority in consensus. There is precious little >>difference between what you endorse and believe to be valid and what >>the shaman believes and you have exactly the same authority, >>consensus. >> >My reply: Modern science does not obtain it validity from "consensus". You are full of crap. The whole peer review process is about obtaining consensus. > More bitter rival concepts, ideas, arguments, and such are to be >found in science as nowhere else. Scientists are a viscious lot! : >) As it should be. Nope. They aren't a viscious (sic) lot at all. Pseudoscientists on the other hand are vicious because down in the depths of their hearts they know they are frauds. > >>> Enlighten me, please, as to what exactly these other "means for >>>obtaining knowledge" are. >> >>Don't count on it. Get your head on straight first. >> >My reply: OK, i checked in the mirror and its good. Answered above. > >>> And while you are at it, define "acceptable" (valid? socially >>>acceptable? what?) and "knowledge" as well. Empirical observations >>>lead to knowledge (although not complete knowledge), and this is >>>"science". Experimental verification of theory leads to knowledge >>>(although not complete knowledge), and this is "science". This is >>>what is known as the scientific method - observation, postulation, >>>experimentation, verification or refutation. There is NO knowledge >>>that is not obtained by these means, so what exactly are you talking >>>about?! >> >>I don't think it would do much good to talk about anything with you >>because you apparently know everything already. You have already >>decided to assert that there is NO knowledge that is not obtained by >>these means. I'm sorry but you are a fool and you would limit the >>world to your own narrow ditch vision of the universe and science. >> >My reply: You just turned my statement "one can't know everything" >around to accuse me of saying i know everything. Surely you can see >how ridiculuos this is. What I see as ridiculous is that you ignored what I wrote and went off on a victim side trip. You focused on the first sentence and ignored the meat of the paragraph. You are acting like you 'know everything' in spite of your claim that one cannot know everything. The fact is that you would have to know everything to know what you don't know (which is patently ridiculous). I mean, how would you know what you don't know? When you claim one cannot know everything I would like to know how you know that. > If you decide that when I say black, I mean white, and am therefore >a fool, feel free. I will give you this much - i should have said >"scientific knowledge", as there is some value in intuitive >knowledge (i.e. Zen) but that is not particullary relevent to this >discussion, as we are discussing science at the moment. > >I claim science as it is practiced by a great many people today is >>often pathological. You rant and rave and defend the indefensible >>making one unsupported assertion after another. And you say I'm >>emotional. Ha. You have your shorts in such an uproar one wonders >>how you can ever get them unknotted. :-). >> >>my reply: Once again - I never stated that there wasn't a great >>deal of poor and "pathological" "science" out there. In fact, most >>of my arguments are about the imperfections of science. You are >>the one going on about "perfect science". And yes, you are >>emotional. Furthermore, I never ranted and I only raved once. : ) Emotional eh? Laughing at how ridiculous you are is emotional, that's true. > >>> >>>I said: >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up >>>>>these assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already >>>>>shot as it is), I'll save for later.\\ >>>> >>>You said: >>> >>>>You ought to just save them. >>> >>> >>>My reply: Pearls before swine. Except, of course, you are not the >>>only one here. LOL. >> >>Yes I suppose one man's treasures are another man's trash. Your >>treasures are pretty trashy fellow and they certainly aren't pearls >>but rather more like paste. >> >>My reply: fair jibes, poor reason. > >>> >>>You said: >>>> >>>>I think there is a better way to do science and I think that great >>>>men of science often simply stumbled upon them from time to time and >>>>really didn't comprehend how they managed to make a breakthrough. I >>>>would add with the caveat that the truly great men did probably know. >>>> >>>>C. Cagle >>>> >>>My reply: If there is indeed a "better way" than the scientific >>>method as currently in use, please enlighten us all as to what is, >>>so that we can benefit from your knowledge as well. >> >>But you couldn't benefit. You already have things lined up neat on >>your shelf and you think they are in the proper order. They aren't >>and you will never figure out why they aren't or how to put them in >>order or what to toss out and what to save. Your request for >>enlightenment is disingenuous. You know it, I know it. You can't >>have written what you have already written and suppose for an instant >>that there really is a better way...or that a better way could be >>revealed by the likes of me who disdains your every peep.:-) >> >My reply: (see above) > >>> Also, which great men are you refering to? At this point I'm >>>expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. >> >>Sorry to disappoint you. Hubbard isn't my idea of a great man. >>Sorry you consider him to be. Pascal would be one, perhaps Boyle or >>Charles. There are others but no one recent. > >My reply: Good cut of the sentence to attempt to distort meaning!! >Here is how I said it: "Also, which great men are you refering to? >At this point I'm expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. (Please!)" >This is a disparaging remark, as your logic is similar to his. >Don't try to twist my words. Your words are twisted enough. I don't have to do anything to them. So you write things you don't mean and when I take them as you wrote them and shove them back down your throat then they were originally meant as disparaging? > > >>>(Please!) But please, don't wrap your opinion in a thin veil of >>>poor logic and retoric in order to try to impress people. Most here >>>are really searching for something real and not interested in >>>unsupported speculation and wandering thought. >>> >> Tim Richardson >> >>You mean don't be like you. I never had any intention of wrapping >>my opinion in a thin veil of poor logic and retoric (sic) in order to >>try and impress people. You should have figured out by now I'm not >>interested in impressing people like you. But if you were interested >>you'd find that I've written quite a lot about epistemology. Its on >>usenet. Dig it up if you are really interested but I can't imagine >>that you really are. C. Cagle >> >my reply: Ahem. This is exactly what you are doing. Before you >post further, you really need to decide whether you support science, >or not, and before you do that, you need to learn exactly what >science is, and isn't. I know what science in the ideal is and what it is in practice. People declaring that the process they use is scientific doesn't make it scientific but only perhaps is accepted by the consensus of fools as being 'scientific' where 'scientific' is related to knowledge gathering activities rather than pseudo knowledge generating activities. >At any rate, I see no further value in this discussion, unless of >course, you would like to discuss it logically? : ) Do so, and i >will reply, don't and i won't. As yet I don't even like you, Tim. So, your not replying won't break my heart. You come off as an arrogant self righteous hypocritical ass. You make moronic pronouncements that have no backing logically but then you insist on logic from others. You cast disparaging remarks and insults and pejorative innuendos and then hypocritically whine about someone insulting you. You deserve both barrels every time you stick your head up. (or [changing metaphors] at least you deserve to have lures cast in front of you that you will snap at so we can all see you flop around when you hook yourself.) C. Cagle. -- Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 14:22:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11713; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:21:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:21:52 -0800 Message-ID: <003301bf983a$801ef1e0$8cd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000326202746.45292.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:19:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"_-DHy3.0.vs2._xztu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14433 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Cagle To: Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 10:50 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > >Mr. Cagle, > > > > Your arguments are emotional, and without any point whatsoever. > >Where are your LOGICAL refutations to my post? > > You demonstrate your confusion by what you write. see below. > > > > >I said: "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few > >really ASK. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown > >answers they have already shaped in their own minds - justifications, > >confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. > >To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind." > > > >You said: Indeed, but in an aphorism attributed to Pythagoras: > >'Having departed your house, turn not back; for the furies will be > >your attendants.' is contained the warning to not really go off on > >the > >search for Truth if you aren't willing to go clear to the end, for > >your life becomes miserable if you only go part way and then decide > >that you can't or don't want to ride that 'whirlwind'. It would be > >better for that person if he'd never set out in the first place. > > > >My reply to this: You simply took what I said (the point of what I > >said) restated it in another form, and are trying to use it as a > >counter to what I said in the first place! This is ridiculous. > > Your confusion here is in thinking that I disagreed with what you > said in your first paragraph. My response was meant as a > confirmation of the sentiment. It is with those little witless gems > that you toss out later that I disagree. > > >I said: > > > >>>Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs > >>>of the human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and > >>>approximate. ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, > >>>and if you want to completely understand one, you must understand > >>>all, which is obviously impossible. > > > >You said: > > > >>Nonsense. You, having not understood it all, are nevertheless > >>making a fiat declaration, which you cannot back up, that complete > >>understanding is impossible. > > > >My reply: WHY have I not understood it at all? What are the > >REASONS?? Give me logic, not emotion. > > Quit being so pissy. You stated that ALL natural phenomenon are > ultimately interconnected but that is a fiat argument with no > substantiation. It is your opinion. It may be true and even I feel > that it is true but it is not logic. I think you are a hypocrite for > demanding logic when you yourself sashay right along bereft of it in > your writing which you turn around and do once more when you declare > that it is 'obviously impossible' to understand all. You don't > understand all perhaps but you have no reason for implying the > impossibility of a thing which you cannot do and impute your own > intellectual impotence to others. Be careful with the word "but". And don't get so fired up, your only feeding his emotional argument agianst you. > > > As far as my not backing it up, you simply miss the point of my > >argument - I did back it up. Tell me WHERE and WHY my argument > >fails, don't just say: (like a three year old) "thats not true"!! > > Absolute nonsense. You are blowing hot air and I don't even think > you realize it. And now tell me WHY... > > > >I said: > > > >>> The reason why science works so well is that approximations are possible. > > > >You said: > > > >>You are confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some > >>specific areas works very well but in general in exploring certain > >>questions works not at all even if there are hordes of people who > >>insist that it works well in those areas. They are simply confused > >>or lying or both. > > > >My reply: More emotion. More unsupported assertations. More vague > >statements that seem to say something, but really don't. > > And your insistence that science works well is ridiculous. Define > 'well'. To your satisfaction? To the satisfaction of other empty > heads like yourself? Please get ahold of yourself. Your > pronouncements are rife with assumptions. That was uncalled for, science does work "well" (from the perspective of us Earth people). I see what your trying to say, but I do hope that you see what I am saying as well. > > >WHY am I "confused"? > > Because you think you understand when you don't. You don't KNOW that. Come on, get a grip. > > >What "specific areas" are you referring to? > > Cosmology, nuclear physics (specifically charged particle > interactions), nuclear fusion, stellar physics, geophysics, > evolution, plate tectonics, planetary physics (to name a few). Good! A counter-comment that invovles information. > > > >What are those "certain questions " where it "works not at all"? > > Questions associated with areas of investigation which is not > influenceable by the investigator. > > > Who are these "hordes of people"? > > Most people who what PBS and confuse popular pseudoscience with > 'science' would be an example but in such cases it isn't just the > 'pseudoscientists' but their audiences as well. > > >and much more importantly, WHAT exactly does all of this have to do > >with what we are discussing? Tie your statements together into SOME > >kind of logical framework. > > You have a short term memory loss or can't make the connection > without it being spelled out for you? Maybe you ought to lay off the > dope for a while. And you were doing so well...your right though... ;) > > > For someone arguing about science, you really seem to have a poor > >grasp of just exactly what science is, and isn't. > > You're making hysterical comments now. Get a grip. > > > >> > >>> > > > >I said: > > > >>> Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and > >>>overtime become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent > >>>a > >>>complete and final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of > >>>Nature" are mutable, destined to be replaced by more accurate laws > >>>when the theories are improved. Theories are almost always based > >>>on arbitrary parameters or "fundamental constants", in other > >>>words, on quantities whose values are not explained by the theory, > >>>but are > >>>rather determined empirically and are merely accepted "a priori". > >>>Quantum theory cannot explain the value used for the mass of an > >>>electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons charge, or > >>>relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical > >>>view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no > >>>further explanation. > >> > >You said: > > > >>Really these are seen as the measurement problems. > >> > >My reply: FINALLY, a bit of specifics. Now, are these "measurement > >problems, as you say, or is it something else? Its something else. > >You once again have totally missed the point. It has nothing to do > >with the accuracy of the measurements. It has to do with the fact > >that measurements have to be made in the first place, to obtain the > >data, which is then inserted into the framework of the theory, and > >accepted without knowing WHY the quantity is what it is, rather > >than being PREDICTED by the theory, and then proven empirically. It > >has to do with the fact that these measurements, no matter how > >accurate, are not EXPLAINED. To KNOW (through empirical observation > >and calculation) the value of C to the infinite decimal place, no > >matter how accurately, does not in the slightest explain WHAT C is, > >or WHY. > > don't get your shorts in a knot. I acknowledge this problem. It is > the fact that fundamentals are measured not predicted. > > > > > >I said: > > > >>> Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations of > >>>the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a > >>>highly thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - > >>>you must read and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, > >>>particularly chapter 18 - Interpenetration - paraphrased to some > >>>extent here), they should be explained, one by one, in future > >>>theories as these theories are more and more accurately detailed > >>>and improved. > >> > >You said: > > > >>Sorry, Capra is another pseudoscientist. I've read his nonsense > >>and found it useless. > >> > >My reply: Once again, WHY?! Back up your emotional OPINION with > >reason, fact and argument. > > Oh! Please! Get ahold of yourself. Capra is just as much in the > dark about the universe as you are. People who pretend to be > scientists and tackle certain problems using empirical methods where > empiricism doesn't work are pseudoscientists who are practicing > pathological science. So very true. > > > > >I said: > >> > >>>It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which > >>>accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some > >>>unexplained features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will > >>>require the acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts > >>>which constitute the scientific language. > >> > >You said: > > > >>You are describing imperfect science. As long as you believe that > >>the current definitions of science include the only acceptable means > >>for obtaining knowledge then you miss the boat and so does the > >>crippled dysfunctional processes which you refer to as 'science'. > >> > >My reply: There is no such thing as "perfect science". > > Yeah, sure. Believe whatever you want. What you don't know about > you deny exists. This is your logic in a cup. > > > >That's what this whole argument is about. So, what you are doing > >here is restating your OPINION again, rather than logical reasons > >for why you have that opinion. > > Oh but you would never do that, eh? ROFLOL > > > And please, what exactly is your definition of science? I think > >that it must be quite different than everyone elses. > > You're probably right. When a shaman calls his dancing around and > voodoo chicken feathers 'science' because it it related to his > knowledge, however false it might be, of the universe then his > 'science' is similar to and in agreement with that of many other > shaman. Some of his patients live and some die. Some things that > people died of ten years ago in the U.S. are curable today and it was > all related to knowledge. Civil war doctors were butchers and shaman > to modern medical science. And knowledge comes in two varieties > (false and true). People die because of false knowledge. Science, > if it is about anything is about knowledge. (Scientia = to know). > But dreaming up theories is a knowledge generating practice and yet > it may have little to do with true knowledge but it is a common > practice. False knowledge is pseudo knowledge and is equivalent to > pseudoscience. So much of modern science isn't really that much > different from the fantasies of the shaman and the sad part is that > you know the shaman is wrong but the shaman doesn't know he's wrong > and he has a whole culture of shamanism to back him up. His science > obtains its authority in consensus. There is precious little > difference between what you endorse and believe to be valid and what > the shaman believes and you have exactly the same authority, > consensus. A nice long explanation, how relieving. > > > Enlighten me, please, as to what exactly these other "means for > >obtaining knowledge" are. > > Don't count on it. Get your head on straight first. This is quite discrediting to yourself. > > > And while you are at it, define "acceptable" (valid? socially > >acceptable? what?) and "knowledge" as well. Empirical observations > >lead to knowledge (although not complete knowledge), and this is > >"science". Experimental verification of theory leads to knowledge > >(although not complete knowledge), and this is "science". This is > >what is known as the scientific method - observation, postulation, > >experimentation, verification or refutation. There is NO knowledge > >that is not obtained by these means, so what exactly are you talking > >about?! > > I don't think it would do much good to talk about anything with you > because you apparently know everything already. You have already > decided to assert that there is NO knowledge that is not obtained by > these means. I'm sorry but you are a fool and you would limit the > world to your own narrow ditch vision of the universe and science. I > claim science as it is practiced by a great many people today is > often pathological. You rant and rave and defend the indefensible > making one unsupported assertion after another. And you say I'm > emotional. Ha. You have your shorts in such an uproar one wonders > how you can ever get them unknotted. :-). > > > > > >I said: > > > >>> > >>> > >>> There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up > >>>these assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already > >>>shot as it is), I'll save for later.\\ > >> > >You said: > > > >>You ought to just save them. > > > > > >My reply: Pearls before swine. Except, of course, you are not the > >only one here. LOL. > > Yes I suppose one man's treasures are another man's trash. Your > treasures are pretty trashy fellow and they certainly aren't pearls > but rather more like paste. You may be a very emotional person, but you are amusing. > > > > > >You said: > >> > >>I think there is a better way to do science and I think that great > >>men of science often simply stumbled upon them from time to time and > >>really didn't comprehend how they managed to make a breakthrough. I > >>would add with the caveat that the truly great men did probably know. > >> > >>C. Cagle > >> > >My reply: If there is indeed a "better way" than the scientific > >method as currently in use, please enlighten us all as to what is, > >so that we can benefit from your knowledge as well. > > But you couldn't benefit. You already have things lined up neat on > your shelf and you think they are in the proper order. They aren't > and you will never figure out why they aren't or how to put them in > order or what to toss out and what to save. Your request for > enlightenment is disingenuous. You know it, I know it. You can't > have written what you have already written and suppose for an instant > that there really is a better way...or that a better way could be > revealed by the likes of me who disdains your every peep.:-) > > > Also, which great men are you refering to? At this point I'm > >expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. > > Sorry to disappoint you. Hubbard isn't my idea of a great man. > Sorry you consider him to be. Pascal would be one, perhaps Boyle or > Charles. There are others but no one recent. > > >(Please!) But please, don't wrap your opinion in a thin veil of > >poor logic and retoric in order to try to impress people. Most here > >are really searching for something real and not interested in > >unsupported speculation and wandering thought. > > > Tim Richardson > > You mean don't be like you. I never had any intention of wrapping > my opinion in a thin veil of poor logic and retoric (sic) in order to > try and impress people. You should have figured out by now I'm not > interested in impressing people like you. But if you were interested > you'd find that I've written quite a lot about epistemology. Its on > usenet. Dig it up if you are really interested but I can't imagine > that you really are. C. Cagle Stop with the emotional arguments. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 14:32:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16325; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:32:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:32:15 -0800 Message-ID: <38DFE1D4.EE222971@dabney.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:33:56 -0600 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries References: <20000327065058.39030.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VuZk71.0.u-3.k5-tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14434 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "C. Cagle" wrote: (In reply to Tim Richardson) > You come off as an arrogant self righteous hypocritical > ass. You make moronic pronouncements that have no backing logically > but then you insist on logic from others. You cast disparaging > remarks and insults and pejorative innuendos and then hypocritically > whine about someone insulting you. Begging your pardon, but this is exactly what you've come off as to me and I'm sure to other list members as well. Insults help neither your logic or your position. (Ask Joseph Newman....) I read your web pages on this subject and your arguments begin to make more sense, but I doubt anyone who had not read them could have understood much of what you said in your conversation with Tim. Fewer insults and clearer, more organized statements and you should have a much more attentive audience. :-) -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 14:35:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17911; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:34:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:34:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:34:48 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: richardsontim@hotmail.com, singtech@telestream.com Subject: VIOLATION OF FREENRG-L RULES In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mLdS-1.0.mN4.I8-tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14435 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, C. Cagle wrote: > > My reply - this is obviously a lie > > Now you're simply being an asshole. FREENRG-L is not Newsgroups. Namecalling is a violation of forum rule #1. Those who cannot converse without becoming uncivilized are unwelcome on this list. I believe apologies to the rest of the subscribers here are in order. 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages. If your message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do not send it to freenrg-L. Instead, use private email to send it directly to your target. VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION. If someone insults you, contact the moderator. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 14:52:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA00492; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:51:48 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:51:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003901bf983e$ad3fd820$8cd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <000f01bf95fd$2bb65f60$d9d666ce@default> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:49:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"FqRZv1.0.b7.2O-tu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14436 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Cagle To: Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 11:56 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > > > > But we (the people of Earth) have such a primitive understanding of > >science. How can we possiblely know if we are going about it in the right > >way if we dont understand it? > > Step one would be to sit down and apply reason. Oh yes, the all powerful reason. I thought we discussed how logic and reason don't equal correct. I would agree that it is the best first step you could take...if your a primitive human. > > > > > > > A completely justified fear since I think that in certain research > >> areas there is a heavy population of fools. They know who they are > >> and they live in fear of being exposed. > > > > I believe your interpretation of "fool" is different from Mr. Beaty's. > >There is a difference between a fool and a person who fears being accused of > >being a fool. > > Nope. I don't fear being accused of being an elephant and the I did't say that you did. > person who isn't a fool sees being accused of being a fool as being > just as ridiculous. The rational man knows that fools will think > him a fool and he would be a fool if he feared that. Only fools are > afraid of being thought to be fools. They know who they are and > they fear exposure. I have to disagree (technicly I don't...oh, screw the philosophy). Fools aren't the only ones who fear being accussed of being a fool. An idea doesn't have to be foolish to seem foolish. If a man developed a F/E machine (a seemingly foolish idea in the eyes of most people) and feared being accused of being a fool, is he a fool? (he's just a man, cut'm some slack!) > > > > > > Irrational. You are declaring in advance that there is no way to > > > discern between the two (hoaxes and truth). You may not have found a > >> way but you are being presumptuous in supposing that either there is > >> no way or that no one has found it. > > > > If the universe is logical, there is a way. But we don't know if it is. > > Are you pregnant or do you just have a predilection to speak for others? I don't mean to sound like an idiot, but, what do you mean? > > > >Regardless, we (the people of Earth) don't currently know how to discern > >between the two. At least we don't know that we do (did you get that). > > Is there some other people that you know of? Some people not of the > Earth? Shall we get out our foil hats now? :-). No, no, and if you like. ;-) My intention was to emphisize that just because us Earth people know/don't know something, doesn't mean some other "people" do/don't. People have been > taught how to access the Truth but they reject it But how can anyone know that they know. Think of all the theoris in the past, they were accepted as "truth" at one time. We look at them as rediculus now, but they were execpted. So even if one did know the "truth", how would they know that they're right? > > > > > > Type-two error: if our goal is to discover all truths, then we > >> > invariably will accept many falsehoods as well (BELIEVER) > >> > >> Wrong again. You are merely supposing that believing all things > >> means that one lacks the discriminatory quality which I say people > >> can obtain but won't make the effort to obtain. > > > > I agree with the first part. But I believe that even if one made the > >effort to obtain that discriminitory quality, it certainly doesn't mean > >he/she will get it. And if one did get it, how would they know? > > Only those without it ask that. Oh, Please. Does thunder and lightning come out of your ass to (said in a friendly manner)? > > > > > Then he's never really a believer but rather a skeptic trying to fake > >> his way through life in the guise of one who is hopeful. When it > >> comes right down to it money is the measure of whether or not someone > >> believes because money is tangible and you can rub it between your > >> fingers and buy groceries with it and cars and tools and pay your > >> rent with it. When some one steps up to the plate and ponies up real > >> cash then he's really a believer. He has a quantity of a quality > > > that the rest of you lack and that is 'faith'. The rest of you can > > > say you believe but you don't demonstrate your belief and hence your > >> words fall to the ground empty and are nothing. Words have a > >> tremendous power but when people spend time destroying the power of > >> their own words then they get the reward they deserve which is a lack > >> of faith. > > > > One who is logical shouldn't be blinded by faith, and faith is a gamble, > >so there is ALWAYS a chance of being blinded. > > Faith isn't a gamble. You don't understand the nature of faith if > you think it is a gamble. Haveing faith is believing without knowing, some believe to the point of knowing regardless of whether it's true though. I know I have said it's next to impossible to "know", and it may be possible, but it's on the edge. > > > > > >The REAL challenge is to do the equivalent of convincing > >> >"The Amazing Randi" that you have true psychic powers. And then > >> >convincing him to part with some of that prize money he's accumulated! > >> > >> There's no way to beat some people's offers because they cannot or > >> will not precisely define what constitutes 'proof' or 'evidence' for > >> them. The 'latch point' where they believe is arbitrary and if some > >> of their own cash is on the line then they never have to reach the > >> latch point even if they secretly believe in their own heart. They > >> can still refrain from issuing the prize. 'Proof' and 'evidence' > >> are the same substance and the only thing that separates them is the > > > magnitude. Both 'proof' and 'evidence' are the subjective > >> interpretation of data, not the data itself. > > > > But "proof" equals certainty. There is no such thing as proof with our > >(the people of Earth) primitive understanding of...everything... > > Proof does not equal certainty. Read above. 'Proof', like' > evidence' is the subjective interpretation of data, not the data > itself. What one man considers proof is not a standard for all. If it's subjective to interpretation, I don't consider it proof. > > > > One ought to be able to show with some level of logic why the gravity > >> capacitor ought to work rather than mere insistence that it does. > >> If you haven't precisely identified the nature of gravity in the > >> first place then to suppose that you have built a thing that somehow > >> reduces it seems a little presumptuous and even a bit ridiculous. > > > > Don't get me started on understanding things. Just because you think you > >understand somthing, just because you have supposed "proof", doesn't mean > >your right...hey, there might not even be a "right" in this world... > > > > > > What about antiknowledge, when what you "know" is incorrect. > > Scientia = to know. Pseudoscience = false knowledge (or processes > which generate false knowledge). I was just messing around with words. :) > > Amble over to http://www.singtech.com and see something interesting. > > -- > Charles Cagle, CEO > Singularity Technologies, Inc. > 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. > Salem, OR 97304 > 503-362-7781 > singtech@telestream.com > > My spell checker is corrupt and I don't want to correct everything manually, please forgive the butchering. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 15:17:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA32593; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:16:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:16:53 -0800 Message-ID: <004101bf9842$33f7bb00$8cd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000327065058.39030.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:14:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q-ZbI1.0.9z7.al-tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14437 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: timothy richardson To: ; Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 1:50 AM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > > >> > >> Your arguments are emotional, and without any point whatsoever. > >>Where are your LOGICAL refutations to my post? > > > >You demonstrate your confusion by what you write. see below. > > > >> > >>I said: "Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world, Few > >>really ASK. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown > >>answers they have already shaped in their own minds - justifications, > >>confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. > >>To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind." > >> > >>You said: Indeed, but in an aphorism attributed to Pythagoras: > >>'Having departed your house, turn not back; for the furies will be > >>your attendants.' is contained the warning to not really go off on > >>the > >>search for Truth if you aren't willing to go clear to the end, for > >>your life becomes miserable if you only go part way and then decide > >>that you can't or don't want to ride that 'whirlwind'. It would be > >>better for that person if he'd never set out in the first place. > >> > >>My reply to this: You simply took what I said (the point of what I > >>said) restated it in another form, and are trying to use it as a > >>counter to what I said in the first place! This is ridiculous. > > > >Your confusion here is in thinking that I disagreed with what you > >said in your first paragraph. My response was meant as a > >confirmation of the sentiment. It is with those little witless gems > >that you toss out later that I disagree. > > > My reply - this is obviously a lie, unless English is a second language to > you, in which case i would suggest that you review the meaning of various > conjuctions, particularly "but", as in "Indeed, but..." I'm sorry that I'm resorting to such things, but...your being an ass. Don't give me a witty comeback, because you KNOW what I mean. > > > >>I said: > >> > >>>>Consider this: ALL "scientific" theories and "laws" are constructs > >>>>of the human mind, nothing more. They are necessarily limited and > >>>>approximate. ALL natural phenomena are ultimately interconnected, > >>>>and if you want to completely understand one, you must understand > >>>>all, which is obviously impossible. > >> > >>You said: > >> > >>>Nonsense. You, having not understood it all, are nevertheless > >>>making a fiat declaration, which you cannot back up, that complete > >>>understanding is impossible. > >> > >>My reply: WHY have I not understood it at all? What are the > >>REASONS?? Give me logic, not emotion. > > > >Quit being so pissy. You stated that ALL natural phenomenon are > >ultimately interconnected but that is a fiat argument with no > >substantiation. It is your opinion. It may be true and even I feel > >that it is true but it is not logic. I think you are a hypocrite for > >demanding logic when you yourself sashay right along bereft of it in > >your writing which you turn around and do once more when you declare > >that it is 'obviously impossible' to understand all. You don't > >understand all perhaps but you have no reason for implying the > >impossibility of a thing which you cannot do and impute your own > >intellectual impotence to others. > > My reply (spoken in true Leonard Nimoy fashion): a demand for logic can > hardly be called "pissy". LOL. Also, I never said that reality's > interconnectedness was a logical deduction. I'm using it as a postulate in > a logical syllogism. (and yes, it is my opinion, based on the solid bedrock > of empirical observation over many centuries of scientific investigation) > As far as the rest of that paragragh is concerned, think about what you are > saying - that it is possible for a human being to know EVERYTHING. In which > case he would cease to be human and would be God. Yah...Leonard Nimoy... Anyway, who are you to say this about god, I doubt you know for sure. I do believe absolute comprehension would bring absolute power though (you wouldn't cease to be human, you would be...super human ;-). That is my "opinion". > > > >> As far as my not backing it up, you simply miss the point of my > >>argument - I did back it up. Tell me WHERE and WHY my argument > >>fails, don't just say: (like a three year old) "thats not true"!! > > > > >Absolute nonsense. You are blowing hot air and I don't even think > >you realize it. > > > My reply - if you can't refute them logically, insult them and scream > louder than they do seems to be your philosophy. > > > > >>I said: > >> > >>>> The reason why science works so well is that approximations are > >>>>possible. > >> > >>You said: > >> > >>>You are confused. Science as it is commonly practiced in some > >>>specific areas works very well but in general in exploring certain > >>>questions works not at all even if there are hordes of people who > >>>insist that it works well in those areas. They are simply confused > >>>or lying or both. > >> > >>My reply: More emotion. More unsupported assertations. More vague > >>statements that seem to say something, but really don't. > > > >And your insistence that science works well is ridiculous. Define > >'well'. To your satisfaction? To the satisfaction of other empty > >heads like yourself? Please get ahold of yourself. Your > >pronouncements are rife with assumptions. > > > My reply: I define "well" (as it applies here) thusly - you are writing > your insults and retoric to me on an incredibly sophisticated device which > did not suddenly fall out of a parallel universe. It was designed. Your > computer talks to other computers over a vast network which was designed. > You drive to work everyday, in your sophisticated automobile, secure in the > knowledge that you will probably not die of smallpox anytime soon, while > your brother flies to Europe on a flying machine which in the long run is > safer than your car, while at work you listen to sounds delivered by a > transmitting media (some would argue here about the transmitting part, still > questions there), which uses small currents induced in it by a transmitter > many miles away, otherwise known as radio (thanks, Tesla!). All of these > advantages (and countless more) were secured by ----(dramatic pause)----- > science. Which was its goal. Not wishful thinking, not shouting louder than > the other guy, but good old fasioned empirical R and D. Were it not for > science, you would be nawing a piece of raw bear meat, in the dark, and > cold, hoping that you could avoid providing a meal to other larger > predaters. Got a little of track with the essay here, didn't you? > > >>WHY am I "confused"? > > > >Because you think you understand when you don't. > > > My reply - More insulting, for lack of a logical response. > > >>What "specific areas" are you referring to? > > > >Cosmology, nuclear physics (specifically charged particle > >interactions), nuclear fusion, stellar physics, geophysics, > >evolution, plate tectonics, planetary physics (to name a few) > > > > > My reply: OK, after reviewing the above paragraph - (You are confused. > Science as it is commonly practiced in some specific areas works very well > but in general in exploring certain questions works not at all even if there > are hordes of people who insist that it works well in those areas. They are > simply confused or lying or both.) The hordes of people are irrelevent. > > It seems that you are suggesting that science does very "well" in these > areas. Personally i think most of these (and evolution in particular) are > poor examples for your argument. Not to disparage these areas, but as in > evolution - this is completly based on deductive and inductive reasoning > (logic) with very little or no empirical evidence. Particle physics runs > into serious Quantum snags which slow it down. I find it strange that these > would be your choices. > > >>What are those "certain questions " where it "works not at all"? > > > >Questions associated with areas of investigation which is not > >influenceable by the investigator. > > > My reply: this is not an answer. Which ones? Try to ignore the fact that > there are no such areas as far as we know. There are indeed. > > >> Who are these "hordes of people"? > > > >Most people who what PBS and confuse popular pseudoscience with > >'science' would be an example but in such cases it isn't just the > >'pseudoscientists' but their audiences as well. > > > My reply: so what you're saying is that if you watch TV, you're an idiot. > And we STILL don't know what these "certain questions" are. > > >>and much more importantly, WHAT exactly does all of this have to do > >>with what we are discussing? Tie your statements together into SOME > >>kind of logical framework. > > > >You have a short term memory loss or can't make the connection > >without it being spelled out for you? Maybe you ought to lay off the > >dope for a while. > > > My reply: This is a good example of the technique of making > counter-accusations rather than answering the question. Socrates would be > proud of you. > > >> For someone arguing about science, you really seem to have a poor > >>grasp of just exactly what science is, and isn't. > > > >You're making hysterical comments now. Get a grip. > > > >My reply: Yet another example of the turn around ploy. Demonstrate that > >you you can argue this out logically instead of emotionally, and I will > >gladly retract my statement. > >>> > >>>> > >> > >>I said: > >> > >>>> Thus, ALL SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ARE PARTIAL AND APPROXIMATE, and > >>>>overtime become more and more accurate, but NONE OF THEM represent > >>>>a > >>>>complete and final "model of reality". Even the so called "Laws of > >>>>Nature" are mutable, destined to be replaced by more accurate laws > >>>>when the theories are improved. Theories are almost always based > >>>>on arbitrary parameters or "fundamental constants", in other > >>>>words, on quantities whose values are not explained by the theory, > >>>>but are > >>>>rather determined empirically and are merely accepted "a priori". > >>>>Quantum theory cannot explain the value used for the mass of an > >>>>electron, or field theory the magnitude of the electrons charge, or > >>>>relativity theory that of the speed of light. In the classical > >>>>view, these are seen as fundamental constants which needed no > >>>>further explanation. > >>> > >>You said: > >> > >>>Really these are seen as the measurement problems. > >>> > >>My reply: FINALLY, a bit of specifics. Now, are these "measurement > >>problems, as you say, or is it something else? Its something else. > >>You once again have totally missed the point. It has nothing to do > >>with the accuracy of the measurements. It has to do with the fact > >>that measurements have to be made in the first place, to obtain the > >>data, which is then inserted into the framework of the theory, and > >>accepted without knowing WHY the quantity is what it is, rather > >>than being PREDICTED by the theory, and then proven empirically. It > >>has to do with the fact that these measurements, no matter how > >>accurate, are not EXPLAINED. To KNOW (through empirical observation > >>and calculation) the value of C to the infinite decimal place, no > >>matter how accurately, does not in the slightest explain WHAT C is, > >>or WHY. > > > >don't get your shorts in a knot. I acknowledge this problem. It is > >the fact that fundamentals are measured not predicted. > > > >My reply: I have just unknotted my shorts. Thanks for the tip, I wondered > >what all that pressure was. LOL > >> > >>I said: > >> > >>>> Now, they are seen as "temporary" and reflect the limitations of > >>>>the present theories. According to bootstrap theory (which is a > >>>>highly thought provoking concept and one which prompted this post - > >>>>you must read and reread "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, > >>>>particularly chapter 18 - Interpenetration - paraphrased to some > >>>>extent here), they should be explained, one by one, in future > >>>>theories as these theories are more and more accurately detailed > >>>>and improved. > >>> > >>You said: > >> > >>>Sorry, Capra is another pseudoscientist. I've read his nonsense > >>>and found it useless. > >>> > >>My reply: Once again, WHY?! Back up your emotional OPINION with > >>reason, fact and argument. > > > >Oh! Please! Get ahold of yourself. Capra is just as much in the > >dark about the universe as you are. People who pretend to be > >scientists and tackle certain problems using empirical methods where > >empiricism doesn't work are pseudoscientists who are practicing > >pathological science. > > > >My reply: Give me logic and/or reason or give me death!!! > > >>I said: > >>> > >>>>It is important to realize, however, that even an ideal theory which > >>>>accounts for all its constants MUST, by necessity, contain some > >>>>unexplained features. As long as it is a scientific theory, it will > >>>>require the acceptance, without explanation, of certain concepts > >>>>which constitute the scientific language. > >>> > >>You said: > >> > >>>You are describing imperfect science. As long as you believe that > >>>the current definitions of science include the only acceptable means > >>>for obtaining knowledge then you miss the boat and so does the > >>>crippled dysfunctional processes which you refer to as 'science'. > >>> > >>My reply: There is no such thing as "perfect science". > > > >Yeah, sure. Believe whatever you want. What you don't know about > >you deny exists. This is your logic in a cup. > > > My reply, I will agree that you cannot prove a negative, however, I was not > speaking about out there in the limitless void somewhere, but rather here. > On Earth. Where there is no "perfect science". Science, by its very > nature, is incomplete. It is, in fact, defined by its incompleteness. If > it were complete, as in all-encompassing, then it would cease to be science > and become something else. If all knowledge ever were to be fully known and > understood, then science would not be needed anymore. Or perhaps you mean > that experimental procedures can be carried out in a perfect way? What > would this entail? Being really, really, really careful? Or that its > possible to have perfect logic and reason. Of course, in order to reason > perfectly you would need perfect data to reason about (just for a start, not > to mention a perfect brain, and perfect systems of thought and logic). > Where exactly did you aquire this and how do you know its perfect? You > didn't do it scientifically - chicken or egg? > > >>That's what this whole argument is about. So, what you are doing > >>here is restating your OPINION again, rather than logical reasons > >>for why you have that opinion. > > > >Oh but you would never do that, eh? ROFLOL > > > My reply: of course I'm doing that, ding-dong, go back to the very > beginning of this discussion and read my opening remark about it ALL being > opinion and human mental constructs that only "approximate' reality. > However, the difference between you and me is that my opinions are based on > reason, logic, and science, while yours are based on emotionalism, retoric, > and insults. That's not entirly true. > > >> And please, what exactly is your definition of science? I think > >>that it must be quite different than everyone elses. > > > >You're probably right. When a shaman calls his dancing around and > >voodoo chicken feathers 'science' because it it related to his > >knowledge, however false it might be, of the universe then his > >'science' is similar to and in agreement with that of many other > >shaman. Some of his patients live and some die. Some things that > >people died of ten years ago in the U.S. are curable today and it was > >all related to knowledge. Civil war doctors were butchers and shaman > >to modern medical science. And knowledge comes in two varieties > >(false and true). People die because of false knowledge. Science, > >if it is about anything is about knowledge. (Scientia = to know). > >But dreaming up theories is a knowledge generating practice and yet > >it may have little to do with true knowledge but it is a common > >practice. False knowledge is pseudo knowledge and is equivalent to > >pseudoscience. So much of modern science isn't really that much > >different from the fantasies of the shaman and the sad part is that > >you know the shaman is wrong but the shaman doesn't know he's wrong > >and he has a whole culture of shamanism to back him up. His science > >obtains its authority in consensus. There is precious little > >difference between what you endorse and believe to be valid and what > >the shaman believes and you have exactly the same authority, > >consensus. > > > My reply: Modern science does not obtain it validity from "consensus". > More bitter rival concepts, ideas, arguments, and such are to be found in > science as nowhere else. Scientists are a viscious lot! : ) As it should > be. I think we should all agree to this. > > >> Enlighten me, please, as to what exactly these other "means for > >>obtaining knowledge" are. > > > >Don't count on it. Get your head on straight first. > > > My reply: OK, i checked in the mirror and its good. ASS! > > >> And while you are at it, define "acceptable" (valid? socially > >>acceptable? what?) and "knowledge" as well. Empirical observations > >>lead to knowledge (although not complete knowledge), and this is > >>"science". Experimental verification of theory leads to knowledge > >>(although not complete knowledge), and this is "science". This is > >>what is known as the scientific method - observation, postulation, > >>experimentation, verification or refutation. There is NO knowledge > >>that is not obtained by these means, so what exactly are you talking > >>about?! > > > >I don't think it would do much good to talk about anything with you > >because you apparently know everything already. You have already > >decided to assert that there is NO knowledge that is not obtained by > >these means. I'm sorry but you are a fool and you would limit the > >world to your own narrow ditch vision of the universe and science. > > > My reply: You just turned my statement "one can't know everything" around > to accuse me of saying i know everything. Surely you can see how ridiculuos > this is. If you decide that when I say black, I mean white, and am > therefore a fool, feel free. I will give you this much - i should have said > "scientific knowledge", as there is some value in intuitive knowledge (i.e. > Zen) but that is not particullary relevent to this discussion, as we are > discussing science at the moment. > > I claim science as it is practiced by a great many people today is > >often pathological. You rant and rave and defend the indefensible > >making one unsupported assertion after another. And you say I'm > >emotional. Ha. You have your shorts in such an uproar one wonders > >how you can ever get them unknotted. :-). > > > >my reply: Once again - I never stated that there wasn't a great deal of > >poor and "pathological" "science" out there. In fact, most of my arguments > >are about the imperfections of science. You are the one going on about > >"perfect science". And yes, you are emotional. Furthermore, I never > >ranted and I only raved once. : ) > > >> > >>I said: > >> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> There are, of course, many, many other points with which to back up > >>>>these assertations, however, in the interests of brevity (already > >>>>shot as it is), I'll save for later.\\ > >>> > >>You said: > >> > >>>You ought to just save them. > >> > >> > >>My reply: Pearls before swine. Except, of course, you are not the > >>only one here. LOL. > > > >Yes I suppose one man's treasures are another man's trash. Your > >treasures are pretty trashy fellow and they certainly aren't pearls > >but rather more like paste. > > > >My reply: fair jibes, poor reason. > > >> > >>You said: > >>> > >>>I think there is a better way to do science and I think that great > >>>men of science often simply stumbled upon them from time to time and > >>>really didn't comprehend how they managed to make a breakthrough. I > >>>would add with the caveat that the truly great men did probably know. > >>> > >>>C. Cagle > >>> > >>My reply: If there is indeed a "better way" than the scientific > >>method as currently in use, please enlighten us all as to what is, > >>so that we can benefit from your knowledge as well. > > > >But you couldn't benefit. You already have things lined up neat on > >your shelf and you think they are in the proper order. They aren't > >and you will never figure out why they aren't or how to put them in > >order or what to toss out and what to save. Your request for > >enlightenment is disingenuous. You know it, I know it. You can't > >have written what you have already written and suppose for an instant > >that there really is a better way...or that a better way could be > >revealed by the likes of me who disdains your every peep.:-) > > > My reply: (see above) > > >> Also, which great men are you refering to? At this point I'm > >>expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. > > > >Sorry to disappoint you. Hubbard isn't my idea of a great man. > >Sorry you consider him to be. Pascal would be one, perhaps Boyle or > >Charles. There are others but no one recent. > > My reply: Good cut of the sentence to attempt to distort meaning!! > Here is how I said it: "Also, which great men are you refering to? At this > point I'm expecting an answer like L. Ron Hubburd. (Please!)" > This is a disparaging remark, as your logic is similar to his. Don't try to > twist my words. > > > >>(Please!) But please, don't wrap your opinion in a thin veil of > >>poor logic and retoric in order to try to impress people. Most here > >>are really searching for something real and not interested in > >>unsupported speculation and wandering thought. > >> > > Tim Richardson > > > >You mean don't be like you. I never had any intention of wrapping > >my opinion in a thin veil of poor logic and retoric (sic) in order to > >try and impress people. You should have figured out by now I'm not > >interested in impressing people like you. But if you were interested > >you'd find that I've written quite a lot about epistemology. Its on > >usenet. Dig it up if you are really interested but I can't imagine > >that you really are. C. Cagle > > > my reply: Ahem. This is exactly what you are doing. Before you post > further, you really need to decide whether you support science, or not, and > before you do that, you need to learn exactly what science is, and isn't. > At any rate, I see no further value in this discussion, unless of course, > you would like to discuss it logically? : ) Do so, and i will reply, don't > and i won't. > > Tim Richardson This is so entertaining! -Sean O'Barr > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 15:29:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03879; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:29:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:29:08 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Grav-cap" is a F/E oscillator? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:28:28 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <5irvdsg3en8ul8ontu3a5dt36fn4oner9d@4ax.com> References: <38DF8588.7A114A35@microtec.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA03847 Resent-Message-ID: <"EiGBg1.0.Sy.3x-tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14438 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:24:02 -0800 (PST), William Beaty wrote: [snip] >will become known in their culture, and will wreck everything. Maybe it's >not "oil companies" who want gravity engines and F/E power supplies kept >out of the hand of the Earthmen. [snip] Another SF theme: Would you give dynamite, fuse and matches to small child? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 15:41:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07066; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:40:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:40:56 -0800 Message-ID: <010601bf9845$91c47540$8cd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> <38DFD576.E1FB11E3@telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: PURCHASE INQUIRY Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:38:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"4Cz6i.0.Ik1.76_tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14439 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Mr. P: What difference is there in the properties of Uranyl Nitrate and other Uranyl compounds? ----- Original Message ----- From: D Adams To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 4:41 PM Subject: PURCHASE INQUIRY > Hi Bruce, > > I've been thinking about buying some of the Uranyl Nitrate from you. A > few questions; > > 1.) The province I live in is suspected of suffering heavy forest > fires this year, > this is especially bad since we;ve had increasiong numbers > constantly over the last > three years. Last year I appear to have successfully abated > some of the drought > with a cloudbuster I built (CB). My question to you, can I > use Uranyl Nitrate to > enhance the effectiveness of the CB in the abatement of > drought? > > 2.) Can you ship Uranyl Nitrate to Canada? > > 3.) Can you tell me what the special handling instructions for > this element are and > or where I can find this info? > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 15:41:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07233; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:41:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:41:28 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000327184025.00b2b870@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:41:29 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: "Grav-cap" is a F/E oscillator? In-Reply-To: References: <38DF8588.7A114A35@microtec.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"YJay32.0.tm1.d6_tu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14440 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: if it does create ultrasound, wouldn't that account for his strange headaches and such? i remember Bruce saying something about ultrasound damaging the brain >How about acoustics? A friend mentions that tin has an interesting >feature: when bent, it squeals. If this squealing sound is actually a >F/E effect, then perhaps those tin capacitor plates wiggle a bit, which >makes them output some excess acoustic energy, which makes them wiggle >more, which creates even more sound, and the whole thing has loud >ultrasound bouncing around inside it. If so, then construction is >critical, and if the layers aren't compressed by end-plates, conditions >for oscillation will be incorrect. Or for example, if we immersed the >whole thing in oil, or used rigid plastic dielectric sheets instead of wax >paper, then the acoustic conditions would be wrong, and the gravitylike >thrust would vanish. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 15:43:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08325; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:42:31 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:42:31 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004101bf9842$33f7bb00$8cd666ce@default> References: <20000327065058.39030.qmail@hotmail.com> <004101bf9842$33f7bb00$8cd666ce@default> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:42:05 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: fake discoveries Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"RtZwg3.0.w12.X7_tu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14441 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Somebody who apparently can't comprehend the basic concepts of list etiquette wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: [whoever] >To: >Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 >Subject: Re: fake discoveries > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> ... ...and ON and ON and ON and... Would all of you PLEASE stop back-quoting tons and tons of garbage?! Is it just too much to ask that if you can't keep yourselves on topic here (actual experiments. etc.) that you at least just type what you want to say and hit send without these giant back-quote monstrosities? I wouldn't even mind browsing threads of philosophical drivel like this one for the occasional tidbit of insight if it weren't for this kind of thing. Yuk! Unreadable nonsense. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 17:07:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA32215; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:07:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:07:01 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000327195535.00b37b20@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:56:04 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: Thickness of foil? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"lqFIy.0.Ct7.qM0uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14442 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >see below. Note that earlier he mentioned http://www.advent-rm.com >as a source for tin foil. they sell to the US, i have no idea if that's a high price or not. problem is, which weight did he buy? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 17:11:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01124; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:11:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:11:04 -0800 Message-ID: <000701bf984e$1eff92c0$65d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000327065058.39030.qmail@hotmail.com><004101bf9842$33f7bb00$8cd666ce@default> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:39:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"fQpVG.0.SH.cQ0uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14443 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We have already rectified this situation, don't start another argument. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Monteverde To: Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 6:42 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > Somebody who apparently can't comprehend the basic concepts of list > etiquette wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: [whoever] > >To: > >Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 > >Subject: Re: fake discoveries > > > > > >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> > ... > > > ...and ON and ON and ON and... > > Would all of you PLEASE stop back-quoting tons and tons of garbage?! > Is it just too much to ask that if you can't keep yourselves on topic > here (actual experiments. etc.) that you at least just type what you > want to say and hit send without these giant back-quote > monstrosities? I wouldn't even mind browsing threads of philosophical > drivel like this one for the occasional tidbit of insight if it > weren't for this kind of thing. Yuk! Unreadable nonsense. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 17:15:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02577; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:15:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:15:27 -0800 Message-ID: <20000328004805.43420.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.87] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:48:05 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"lsC_13.0.2e.jU0uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14444 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I'm sorry that I'm resorting to such things, but...your being an ass. >Don't give me a witty comeback, because you KNOW what I mean. This is true. I am sometimes an ass. Probably being one here, for which i do apologize. However, it seems strange that someone would be agreeing by "yes, but..." you know what I mean - as an example - "Honey, it's true that you've lost a lot of weight on your diet, but you really look nice in that dress!" > Yah...Leonard Nimoy... Anyway, who are you to say this about god, I >doubt you know for sure. I do believe absolute comprehension would bring >absolute power though (you wouldn't cease to be human, you would be...super >human ;-). That is my "opinion". OK. I can see your point. Now please, just consider mine. My opinion is - If you are really talking about knowing EVERYTHING - you would know how to duplicate the process which brought our universe into existance, right? You would how to overcome any problems that might prevent you from doing it. You would know how to create life. You would know everything that everyone of your creations did at every moment, including if they were talking to you, and you would know how to perform any miracles that they asked of you, if you chose. And so on, and so on. Come on, Chris, knowing EVERYTHING is a tall order to fill. And if you knew EVERYTHING, in what way would you differ from God? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being serious. If you knew EVERYTHING, this is the same as omnipresence and omnipotence, isn't it? Absolute power. In the truest sense of the word. Who am I to say this about God? Maybe you mean I'm being blasphemous. Well, I think that if God exists, and I believe he does, although I am not a nut about it, then He has a sole proprietorship on knowing EVERYTHING. To claim that a human could know everything, in my opinion ; ), is to equate them with God. Who are you to claim that you could reach the same level as God, knowledge wise? (asked in a friendly manner). Anyway, no, of course I don't "know for sure". Thats the whole point. > > Got a little of track with the essay here, didn't you? Maybe. But I don't see why. He asked me why I thought science worked well. I told him. Personally, I think that was in line. > > There are indeed. Well, I would very much like to know what they are, please. In a different post, Mr Cagle said this: "The core of a star, for instance, is not under the experimental manipulation or influence of the investigator. He can observe some aspects of the star but he doesn't operate on the star." In order to observe that star you must use some means of observing it, i.e. your eyes, a telescope, etc... Now, even if you are not directly influencing the star itself (more on this in a minute), you ARE directly influencing the only source of information you have about it - the light from it. How exactly do you know that you are not altering the results by how you observe it? If your lens is dirty, for example, the knowledge about the star you get from that light will be incomplete and incorrect. Ok, clean your lens. How do you know exactly what the effects of refraction, reflection, and so forth are going to have on your resultant data? What are your means of analyzing that data? A computer, a spectrogragh, all of these have their own influence on the data. To put it another way - all acts of observation are two sided - the observed and the observer. Theres no way out of that. And since the observer is involved in the act, he (or she) influences it, and what the data he or she gets out of it. Change your parameters of observation, your data will change as well, even if only to a very small degree. (remember the approximation thing?) OK. Now keep in mind that we lack complete knowledge on everything. How do you KNOW that you are not linked in some way to that star you are observing? Modern physics suggests that you might be, in more ways than you realize. I'm not claiming this to be fact, just a thought, the point being that you don't know. There is some evidence to suggest that there is two-sided interaction, and that you ARE influencing that star. If you want, I will go into this in detail later. > That's not entirly true. Granted. Its hard to walk in the rain without getting wet. > I think we should all agree to this. I think so as well. > ASS! Once again - no argument. I fully admit to occasionally being an ass. TR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 17:38:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10470; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:38:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:38:23 -0800 Message-ID: <00cf01bf9856$4a04c820$0b5dadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: "d'Arsonval resonant overunity generator"? Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:38:02 -0500 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"bsorN1.0.UZ2.Eq0uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14445 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was reading a conspiracy-oriented web page a few days ago and I came across a mention of beam weapons powered by a "d'Arsonval resonant overunity generator". I remember seeing d'Arsonval's name connected with some sort of alternative-science research recently, but I can't remember where, and a search of the half-dozen or so most likely books in my collection turned up nothing. Can anyone help me? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 17:46:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12172; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:45:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:45:47 -0800 Message-ID: <38E00F33.4C9A3B31@dabney.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:47:31 -0600 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries References: <20000328004805.43420.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dERW81.0.2-2.Bx0uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14446 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: timothy richardson wrote: > OK. I can see your point. Now please, just consider mine. My opinion is - > If you are really talking about knowing EVERYTHING - you would know how to > duplicate the process which brought our universe into existance, right? You > would how to overcome any problems that might prevent you from doing it. > You would know how to create life. You would know everything that everyone > of your creations did at every moment, including if they were talking to > you, and you would know how to perform any miracles that they asked of you, > if you chose. And so on, and so on. Forgive me if I'm out of line for jumping into this conversation a little. This is not quite correct. One can KNOW how to do something without being able to DO it. All knowing does not equal all powerful. BTW, I agree with you on the other points. Whenever scientists start to think they have everything figured out, they find out something new that often blows away much of what they thought they "knew." The universe is so complex no one person can know or understand everything we've discovered so far. I don't see that changing as time goes on. Certainly not within our lifetimes. :-) -- Emmett Hawkins Red-Leader@Dabney.com , XWingPilot@email.com AIM: RLatYavinBase ICQ: 57147165 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 18:58:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA06759; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:58:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:58:24 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:05:04 -0500 Subject: Re: VIOLATION OF FREENRG-L RULES Message-ID: <20000327.214556.-404723.3.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"ezh5O.0.Jf1.E_1uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14447 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thank you! I was wondering when you'd send this message! On Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:34:48 -0800 (PST) William Beaty writes: > FREENRG-L is not Newsgroups. Namecalling is a violation of forum > rule #1. Those who cannot converse without becoming uncivilized are unwelcome > on this list. > > I believe apologies to the rest of the subscribers here are in > order. > > > 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages. If your > message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, > do > not send it to freenrg-L. Instead, use private email to send it > directly to your target. VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE > UNSUBSCRIPTION. > If someone insults you, contact the moderator. mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 18:58:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA06815; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:58:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:58:29 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:35:57 -0500 Subject: Re: "d'Arsonval resonant overunity generator"? Message-ID: <20000327.214557.-404723.5.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-7,9-12,17-18,20-24 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"gHHNy1.0.Gg1.K_1uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14448 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:38:02 -0500 "Jim Shaffer, Jr." writes: > I was reading a conspiracy-oriented web page a few days ago and I > came across a mention of beam weapons powered by a "d'Arsonval resonant overunity > generator". > I remember seeing d'Arsonval's name connected with some sort of > alternative-science research recently, but I can't remember where, > and a search of the half-dozen or so most likely books in my collection turned up > nothing. > Can anyone help me? Do you think it might be a fake name to "substantiate" conspiracy claims? The press has done it before, and I personally distrust conspiracy theories. I know this probably sounds pretty off the wall, but the first thing I was struck by was the similarity between the name "d'Arsonval" and "the arsenal." I'm not trying to prove anything in this post: just giving my two cents' worth. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 19:18:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA15677; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:18:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:18:30 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01bf9863$f66a2940$5ed666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000328004805.43420.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:16:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"x5noR3.0.sq3.5I2uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14449 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: timothy richardson To: Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 7:48 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > > > > I'm sorry that I'm resorting to such things, but...your being an ass. > >Don't give me a witty comeback, because you KNOW what I mean. > > This is true. I am sometimes an ass. Probably being one here, for which i > do apologize. However, it seems strange that someone would be agreeing by > "yes, but..." you know what I mean - as an example - "Honey, it's true that > you've lost a lot of weight on your diet, but you really look nice in that > dress!" OK > > > > Yah...Leonard Nimoy... Anyway, who are you to say this about god, I > >doubt you know for sure. I do believe absolute comprehension would bring > >absolute power though (you wouldn't cease to be human, you would be...super > >human ;-). That is my "opinion". > > OK. I can see your point. Now please, just consider mine. My opinion is - > If you are really talking about knowing EVERYTHING - you would know how to > duplicate the process which brought our universe into existance, right? You > would how to overcome any problems that might prevent you from doing it. > You would know how to create life. You would know everything that everyone > of your creations did at every moment, including if they were talking to > you, and you would know how to perform any miracles that they asked of you, > if you chose. And so on, and so on. Come on, Chris, knowing EVERYTHING is a > tall order to fill. And if you knew EVERYTHING, in what way would you > differ from God? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being serious. If you knew > EVERYTHING, this is the same as omnipresence and omnipotence, isn't it? > Absolute power. In the truest sense of the word. Who am I to say this > about God? Maybe you mean I'm being blasphemous. Well, I think that if God > exists, and I believe he does, although I am not a nut about it, then He has > a sole proprietorship on knowing EVERYTHING. To claim that a human could > know everything, in my opinion ; ), is to equate them with God. Who are you > to claim that you could reach the same level as God, knowledge wise? (asked > in a friendly manner). Anyway, no, of course I don't "know for sure". > Thats the whole point. I see your point...oddley enough it corresponds with mine in many ways. I still believe that knowing everything is possible, I'd rather not explain though...my brain is...resting. ;-) > > > > > Got a little of track with the essay here, didn't you? > > Maybe. But I don't see why. He asked me why I thought science worked well. > I told him. Personally, I think that was in line. I was just making a comment, an unnecesary comment. > > > > There are indeed. > > Well, I would very much like to know what they are, please. In a different > post, Mr Cagle said this: > > "The core of a star, for instance, is not under the experimental > manipulation or influence of the investigator. He can observe some > aspects of the star but he doesn't operate on the star." > > In order to observe that star you must use some means of observing it, i.e. > your eyes, a telescope, etc... Now, even if you are not directly > influencing the star itself (more on this in a minute), you ARE directly > influencing the only source of information you have about it - the light > from it. How exactly do you know that you are not altering the results by > how you observe it? If your lens is dirty, for example, the knowledge about > the star you get from that light will be incomplete and incorrect. Ok, clean > your lens. How do you know exactly what the effects of refraction, > reflection, and so forth are going to have on your resultant data? What are > your means of analyzing that data? A computer, a spectrogragh, all of these > have their own influence on the data. To put it another way - all acts of > observation are two sided - the observed and the observer. Theres no way > out of that. And since the observer is involved in the act, he (or she) > influences it, and what the data he or she gets out of it. Change your > parameters of observation, your data will change as well, even if only to a > very small degree. (remember the approximation thing?) > OK. Now keep in mind that we lack complete knowledge on everything. How do > you KNOW that you are not linked in some way to that star you are observing? > Modern physics suggests that you might be, in more ways than you realize. > I'm not claiming this to be fact, just a thought, the point being that you > don't know. There is some evidence to suggest that there is two-sided > interaction, and that you ARE influencing that star. If you want, I will go > into this in detail later. I agree, I have spoken the same the to others. I think you would like a book called "Seven Ideas That Shook The Universe", it's on Physics. It's only 2 or 3 hundred pages, but it covers a lot. And it's a good reference. > > > That's not entirly true. > > Granted. Its hard to walk in the rain without getting wet. > > > I think we should all agree to this. > > I think so as well. > > > ASS! > > Once again - no argument. I fully admit to occasionally being an ass. I was arguing mostly for my entertainment, we really didn't have very different things to say! ;) > > > TR > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 19:29:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20147; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:28:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:28:58 -0800 Message-ID: <20000328032823.66450.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.113] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:28:23 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"NDB5B3.0.iw4.vR2uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14450 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Forgive me if I'm out of line for jumping into this conversation a >little. This is not quite correct. One can KNOW how to do something >without being able to DO it. All knowing does not equal all powerful. > Emmett, good point. And one that certainly is valid. I just tend to think that even though knowing everything and being able to do anything are not quite synonomous, having all knowledge would lead to being all powerful. After all, if you knew everything, you would know how to achieve the ability. TR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 19:30:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20610; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:30:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:30:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:29:50 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Grav-cap" is a F/E oscillator? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000327184025.00b2b870@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kiNyY.0.x15.uS2uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14451 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Rymel wrote: > if it does create ultrasound, wouldn't that account for his strange > headaches and such? i remember Bruce saying something about ultrasound > damaging the brain Well, it certainly can wreck your hearing. It damages hair-cells and can give you permanent tinnitus. It would be nice if this device doesn't emit some sort of weird, harmful radiation. We don't want to become Marie Curie, and instantly doom ourselves just by turning it on, not realizing that we will die in a few decades from some kind of new cancer. One point that was missing from my post: if the F/E and gravity effects are caused by some sort of global standing waves or EM "vortex" trapped inside the capacitor, then a pair of plates would do nothing, and an inch-thick stack might also be too thin. And both the slots in the plates and the central hole would have some sort of sensible purpose. On the other hand, if a pair of plates does give 1/200 of the thrust of 400 plates and can levitate, then the force originates in the plates or the dielectric, and not in some large, plate-spanning dynamic pattern. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 19:38:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24722; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:38:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:38:00 -0800 Message-ID: <20000328033722.26002.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.113] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VIOLATION OF FREENRG-L RULES Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:37:21 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"geze81.0.426.Na2uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14452 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > I believe apologies to the rest of the subscribers here are in > > order. Sorry. Learning as i go. Still pretty new to this forum. Please consider this to be my complete apology for any rule violations, wasted time, annoyance, and so forth to any and all subcribers. Tim Richardson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 19:51:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA30496; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:50:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:50:57 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: "Grav-cap" is a F/E oscillator? Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:03:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20000328040309593.AAA264@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"J-rbU1.0.LS7.Vm2uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14453 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed writes: >if it does create ultrasound, wouldn't that account for his strange >headaches and such? i remember Bruce saying something about ultrasound >damaging the brain This is something that I hadn't thought of, and should have. Ultrasound was found to damage tissue due to the cavitation bubble formation and collapse that it can produce under the right frequencies and decibel levels. Some early ultrasound imaging devices for pregnant women and brain scanning devices did in fact cause cavitation tissue damage. There was a brief spate of liability lawsuits brought against the manufacturers of the devices, and the industry adjusted the power levels until they they were brought down to a safe, but effective level for the purposes of imaging. This was all done fairly quietly or professionally I might say of course, but the issue still remains. If you are using sonic frequencies and decibel levels that can cause cavitation, you should be aware of the dangers in order to avoid them. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 20:12:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07542; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:12:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:12:07 -0800 Message-ID: <001701bf9865$100efdc0$5ed666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000328004805.43420.qmail@hotmail.com> <38E00F33.4C9A3B31@dabney.com> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:24:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"z2HEs3.0.fr1.M43uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14454 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Emmett Hawkins To: Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 8:47 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > timothy richardson wrote: > > > OK. I can see your point. Now please, just consider mine. My opinion is - > > If you are really talking about knowing EVERYTHING - you would know how to > > duplicate the process which brought our universe into existance, right? You > > would how to overcome any problems that might prevent you from doing it. > > You would know how to create life. You would know everything that everyone > > of your creations did at every moment, including if they were talking to > > you, and you would know how to perform any miracles that they asked of you, > > if you chose. And so on, and so on. > > Forgive me if I'm out of line for jumping into this conversation a > little. This is not quite correct. One can KNOW how to do something > without being able to DO it. All knowing does not equal all powerful. On the contrary, to know is to know HOW to do. If one knows how to saw a log in half, one is capable of sawing a log in half. > BTW, I agree with you on the other points. Whenever scientists start to > think they have everything figured out, they find out something new that > often blows away much of what they thought they "knew." The universe is > so complex no one person can know or understand everything we've > discovered so far. I don't see that changing as time goes on. Certainly > not within our lifetimes. :-) > > -- > Emmett Hawkins > Red-Leader@Dabney.com , XWingPilot@email.com > AIM: RLatYavinBase > ICQ: 57147165 > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 20:34:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA15238; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:33:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:33:40 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "d'Arsonval resonant overunity generator"? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:33:11 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <20000327.214557.-404723.5.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20000327.214557.-404723.5.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA15205 Resent-Message-ID: <"aHy-p2.0._j3.aO3uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14455 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:35:57 -0500, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: [snip] > Do you think it might be a fake name to "substantiate" conspiracy >claims? The press has done it before, and I personally distrust >conspiracy theories. I know this probably sounds pretty off the wall, >but the first thing I was struck by was the similarity between the name >"d'Arsonval" and "the arsenal." [snip] A d'Arsonval meter is a coil type current meter. See Arsène d'Arsonval. (French 19th century). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 20:36:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16912; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:36:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:36:25 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: "d'Arsonval resonant overunity generator"? Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:22:00 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <00cf01bf9856$4a04c820$0b5dadd1@default> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"g6Atl1.0.884.8R3uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14456 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim, D'arsonval was the inventor of the movement used in early electrical meters.. don't know much more about him than that. I think this particular claim is nonsense, simply from context. Fred > > I was reading a conspiracy-oriented web page a few days ago and > I came across a > mention of beam weapons powered by a "d'Arsonval resonant > overunity generator". > I remember seeing d'Arsonval's name connected with some sort of > alternative-science research recently, but I can't remember > where, and a search > of the half-dozen or so most likely books in my collection > turned up nothing. > Can anyone help me? > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 20:36:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16960; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:36:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:36:29 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: "Grav-cap" is a F/E oscillator? Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:22:01 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"nDZ6Z.0.X84.AR3uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14457 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill and all, any more info on this? I am curently collecting patents for FE devices that use electron beams, like the Geoffrey Spence patent US4772816. "Energy Conversion System". Thanks! Fred > > Hmmmm. I've heard rumors that the power output of microwave > magnetrons is > much higher than theory predicts. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 20:49:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22901; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:49:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:49:21 -0800 Message-ID: <38E03A40.2E275D87@dabney.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:51:12 -0600 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries References: <20000328004805.43420.qmail@hotmail.com> <38E00F33.4C9A3B31@dabney.com> <001701bf9865$100efdc0$5ed666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FCiST2.0.bb5.Gd3uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14458 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris O'Barr wrote: > On the contrary, to know is to know HOW to do. If one knows how to saw a > log in half, one is capable of sawing a log in half. Ah, but you're still leaving out a critical premise. If one knows how to saw a log in half, and has the ABILITY to saw a log in half, one can do it. Using your example, there are several instances which could prevent one from accomplishing this, even if one had the knowledge. I.e. if one did not have a saw, if one were not physically able to work it, someone else prevented one from doing it etc. Even if we had perfect knowledge, we would still have the limitations imposed by our human forms. If there is a way to manipulate other substance directly with our minds ("the force") then I would agree with you. Knowledge is critical, it is half of the equation, but it is only half. -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 20:58:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26445; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:57:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:57:47 -0800 Message-ID: <38E03C3A.18AAFB41@dabney.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:59:38 -0600 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries References: <20000328032823.66450.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DnQe_2.0.6T6.9l3uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14459 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: timothy richardson wrote: > Emmett, good point. And one that certainly is valid. I just tend to think > that even though knowing everything and being able to do anything are not > quite synonomous, having all knowledge would lead to being all powerful. > After all, if you knew everything, you would know how to achieve the > ability. To a certain degree, yes, that's correct, which is why I agree with you that it's not possible. Even if it were though, you would still have problems when people disagreed. One is going to get their way and the other likely won't. This is far closer to philosophy and religion than free energy so I'll shut up for a while and let y'all talk. -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 21:49:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13894; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:48:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:48:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000327215100.2e570dda@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:51:00 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: "Tesla" magnetic rectifier In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000327184025.00b2b870@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Jb_NV.0.-O3.zU4uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14460 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, In my tests of an iron-cored electromagnet, I decided to test the electromagnet as a magnetic rectifier. The core was closed and consisted in part of a neodym magnet to bias the core. The magnet is about 3 x 5 cm x 1cm thick. The load in series with the electromagnet was a 0.25 Ohm resistor, as the saturation effect depends on the current. I did see a peak current in one direction about 20% larger than the other. (That side of the sine wave was higher, but narrower) I observed this on a scope or peak reading voltmeter (diode and capacitor). On an average reading meter, digital or analog, I was not able to read any DC voltage across the 0.25 Ohm load, <1 mV DC with the digital meter. This was surprising to me. The total magnet path length is about 25 cm, and the applied voltage was about 8 volts at 60Hz. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 22:21:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25200; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:21:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:21:02 -0800 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: "Tesla" magnetic rectifier Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 01:18:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20000327215100.2e570dda@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"RxSme2.0.c96.Dz4uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14461 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave. Yes, I'm familiar with the patent. It does work but it sounds like you're not saturating the xformer in one direction. That's whats needed to make it work. You're only working in the nonlinear region of it. Hence no DC. You're probably seeing second harmonic generation (or third), this is a parametric effect. Well worth playing with, that. I'd say you'd do better to concentrate on it and forget the diode. It's was an interesting idea of tesla's but of little commercial use as a diode. Very inefficient. Try putting a tank in the circuit tuned to the resonant frequency of the harmonic you're exciting. Interesting, eh? K. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dameron [mailto:ddameron@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 9:51 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: "Tesla" magnetic rectifier Hi all, In my tests of an iron-cored electromagnet, I decided to test the electromagnet as a magnetic rectifier. The core was closed and consisted in part of a neodym magnet to bias the core. The magnet is about 3 x 5 cm x 1cm thick. The load in series with the electromagnet was a 0.25 Ohm resistor, as the saturation effect depends on the current. I did see a peak current in one direction about 20% larger than the other. (That side of the sine wave was higher, but narrower) I observed this on a scope or peak reading voltmeter (diode and capacitor). On an average reading meter, digital or analog, I was not able to read any DC voltage across the 0.25 Ohm load, <1 mV DC with the digital meter. This was surprising to me. The total magnet path length is about 25 cm, and the applied voltage was about 8 volts at 60Hz. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 02:41:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA13798; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 02:40:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 02:40:45 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 02:36:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: Re: VIOLATION OF FREENRG-L RULES Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"1X7wG.0.QN3.im8uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14462 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mr. William J. Beaty wrote: >On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, C. Cagle wrote: > >> > My reply - this is obviously a lie >> >> Now you're simply being an asshole. > > >FREENRG-L is not Newsgroups. Namecalling is a violation of forum rule #1. >Those who cannot converse without becoming uncivilized are unwelcome >on this list. > >I believe apologies to the rest of the subscribers here are in order. > > > 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages. If your > message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do > not send it to freenrg-L. Instead, use private email to send it > directly to your target. VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION. > If someone insults you, contact the moderator. Civilization is what people say that it is. Unsubscribe me if you wish. It is, after all, your list. But in the civilization that I hail from, calling someone a liar is a far more hostile and uncivilized act than calling them an asshole. Calling them an asshole is direct and to the point and everyone understands what is meant. Hopefully, the target of such a name will reflect on his behavior and perhaps change - but when dealing with raging hypocrites, such as Richardson, that isn't something you can count on. Of course, I tuned into this group to see it I could get away from flaming and other nonsense which characterizes activity in many newsgroups. But I wasn't here but just a short while and had already gotten a number of caustic and hostile comments. But I suppose I bring it on myself. When I see pseudoscientific thought emerging and attempting to pass itself off as wisdom I am prone to point it out whether on this list or in a newsgroup. Old habits die hard. I have stayed away from commenting on the tin foil gravity stuff and similar nonsense because nothing I would say there would be welcome and it is such obvious bullshit that I wouldn't want to waste my time. I simple delete the messages which cover those foolishnesses. There certainly are a few nice people here who tune in and are open minded to new concepts in physics because they know that much of modern physics is a shell game and that there are no genuine recognized experts around when it comes to the hard questions to which many people interested in fundamental physics seek the answers; and then there is also the collection of the same type who haunt newsgroups whose sole function, as far as I can tell, is to act as the king's spies (attacking anything that threatens the status quo). When I posted an invitation to come to my website the innuendos and attacks started. If I try to promote the physics which I have discovered some chickenshit will immediately accuse me of promoting. Damn rights, so what? Is there a crime in that? If I don't have a product yet they will accuse me of hucksterism yet I take pains to point out clearly on my website that we haven't built a working model yet. Still, we do need development money. What the hell is unusual about that, or wrong about that? Hell, Henry Ford needed investors and so did Samuel F. B. Morse and Alexander G. Bell. The federal government, thanks to our congressmen, has already invested billions of taxpayer dollars in fusion R&D and has supported an army of welfare queens in white coats for two generations who have produced a negative return on that investment and are really no closer to success today than when they started Project Sherwood in 1951. But if I need money to build a reactor then I must be a con artist, eh? Go figure the logic here. The physics I have presented there (at my website) is new, it is revolutionary and it is also rock solid. I thought to promote interest in what I'm doing by offering free shares in my company. What's the response? Some asshole from this list immediately starts putting me down for collecting people's SSAN's as part of the registration process for issuing the stock. I'm only trying to cover myself for any possible IRS audits or investigations from the Securities and Exchange commission. Hell, I'm giving part of my company away and I immediately get accused of doing something nefarious because of it. Where were you, Mr. Beaty, when this was happening? It is ok for the inmates here to insinuate that what ever I have going or would like to get going is somehow sinister but the minute I accuse Richardson of being an asshole for his behavior and hypocrisy and for calling me a liar then I'm asked to apologize. Hmmm. Amazing set of standards you have going. On one hand you create a free environment for advocates of tin foil antigravity shamanism and woolgathering to flourish but when someone with some very serious (but new) concepts in physics shows up then it is ok for the dogs to attack. And if I kick back then you say 'bad dog' to Richardson and he puts his tail between his legs and rolls over admitting he's been a bad dog. Sorry, I'm not a dog and I don't roll over nor do I apologize on command. If a dog comes at me I'll kick the shit out of it and I won't say 'sorry, boy' later on. I meant to kick him in response for his bad manners in the first place. In fact, I'm more apt to carry a lethal weapon so that I can finish the son of bitch off the next time he attacks me, provoked or not. He's an arrogant hypocritical ass who is never taken to task for his bad manners nor hypocritical inanities. If anything, I think you ought to apologize for not keeping him on a tighter leash. You want to foster an air of free discussion void of accusations and bad manners then wonderful. Perhaps your dogs got out of the pen when they saw me coming and you didn't know about it. Or perhaps what I've actually stumbled onto in this list is people who are really more interested in woolgathering and being taken in by fraudulent or pathological science than they are in making real progress in understanding the physics of the universe. I'm reminded of a comment by Paul who wrote in 2 Tim 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away {their} ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." In other words, all the bullshit in the world is welcome here and to make it appear like everyone is really open minded, you'll welcome with especially wide arms the utter nonsense that the mainstream has rejected....but when it comes down to serious physics (by which I have rejected the mainstream for a lack of epistemological soundness in their pseudoscience and pathological practices) then I'm not really welcome here either. But nevertheless you must keep up appearances of openness. That is like allowing a certain guest to enter who has taken you up on your open invitation and because you don't want it to be said that you turn anyone away but then letting other guests so abuse him that he responds in kind and then you tell him he must leave for bad behavior. That is hypocrisy to the bone, Mr. Beaty. When the real stuff (genuine true physics) shows up everyone of you all know that all of the bullshit will end and every damn fraud and huckster and liar will be shown in their true light; and every fool who bought into the frauds and hucksterisms and lies will also be revealed. That alone is strong incentive to maintain things as they are. And that goes for both the mainstream and for the way left field people who gather here. I sense that there is a greater desire by many subscribers to this list to hear and maintain the flow of the bullshit than to actually come to the point where physics becomes a finished enterprise. Regards, Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com http://www.singtech.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 03:04:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA17143; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:04:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:04:08 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: singtech@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:06:07 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "C. Cagle" Subject: RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1257884508==_ma============" Resent-Message-ID: <"HXeDN1.0.mB4.d69uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14463 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --============_-1257884508==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sparky wrote: >You know Rick, I was holding back there, but >now you've gone and stirred up the old hornets nest >again. You agent of Satan you. > >I went to the site, it wants to suck up some pretty >serious information concerning you, probably the most >alarming of which is your social security number. >All you privacy buffs know what that means... > >Free? I've heard this story before. > >K. Your SSAN is pretty serious information? Why would *your* SSAN be pretty serious information since it is a matter of public record? You'll notice I'm making the offer to foreigners as well and they aren't required to provide their SSAN because they don't have a Social Security Account Number. The only serious information I'm collecting is the standard data that any privately held company would ordinarily retain on record for its stockholders if they needed to contact them or to report an income flow from the company to the stockholder. You should read the general rules or considerations that I'm asking the people to agree to prior to their applying for the free E-Stock in Singularity Technologies, Inc. You'll see that I'm not interested in giving away stock to people who demonstrate hostility towards the company. Why should I be? If you aren't interested in the offer what makes you think that you can frighten people away with your childish scare tactics and innuendos? When we vote to buy back the stock from people that we are giving away free to them we will need SSAN's to support our expenditures with the IRS. That's the only reason we're collecting that information now. If I were a Canadian or any other nationality I'd be collecting the relevant tax number or whatever they use to track taxable income in their particular country so as to be in agreement with the tax laws of my country. I don't require anything other than a self manufactured ID number (to track referrals) from people who are citizens of foreign countries. If someone is afraid to proliferate their SSAN for some legitmate reason then I'm all for their privacy. All they need to do is to send me an email expressing their concerns. I don't need their SSAN until I make the offer to buy back the shares. If people wish to enter an ID number other than their SSAN they can sure do that (as long as they follow the rules and don't try to cheat the program.) Regards, -- Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com --============_-1257884508==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock!
Sparky wrote:

You know Rick, I was holding back there, but
now you've gone and stirred up the old hornets nest
again. You agent of Satan you.

I went to the site, it wants to suck up some pretty
serious information concerning you, probably the most
alarming of which is your social security number.
All you privacy buffs know what that means...

Free? I've heard this story before.

K.

Your SSAN is pretty serious information?   Why would *your* SSAN be pretty serious information since it is a matter of public record?  You'll notice I'm making the offer to foreigners as well and they aren't required to provide their SSAN because they don't have a Social Security Account Number.  The only serious information I'm collecting is the standard data that any privately held company would ordinarily retain on record for its stockholders if they needed to contact them or to report an income flow from the company to the stockholder.    You should read the general rules or considerations that I'm asking the people to agree to prior to their applying for the free E-Stock in Singularity Technologies, Inc.  You'll see that I'm not interested in giving away stock to people who demonstrate hostility towards the company.  Why should I be?   If you aren't interested in the offer what makes you think that you can frighten people away with your childish scare tactics and innuendos?  When we vote to buy back the stock from people that we are giving away free to them we will need SSAN's to support our expenditures with the IRS.    That's the only reason we're collecting that information now.   If I were a Canadian or any other nationality I'd be collecting the relevant tax number or whatever they use to track taxable income in their particular country so as to be in agreement with the tax laws of my country.  I don't require anything other than a self manufactured ID number (to track referrals) from people who are citizens of foreign countries.  If someone is afraid to proliferate their SSAN for some legitmate reason then I'm all for their privacy.   All they need to do is to send me an email expressing their concerns.   I don't need their SSAN until I make the offer to buy back the shares.   If people wish to enter an ID number other than their SSAN they can sure do that (as long as they follow the rules and don't try to cheat the program.)

Regards,

--
Charles Cagle, CEO
Singularity Technologies, Inc.
1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W.
Salem, OR  97304
503-362-7781
singtech@telestream.com
--============_-1257884508==_ma============-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 03:54:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA23977; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:54:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:54:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:49:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200003281149.NAA06368@front4m.grolier.fr> X-Sender: jplentin@pop3.club-internet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Re : "d'Arsonval resonant overunity generator"? Resent-Message-ID: <"c-yeS1.0.Ts5.er9uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14464 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim, Fred, Tom & all Well, I'm always glad to see mentioned the name of Jacques Arsene d'Arsonval (1854 - 1940), a brilliant French scientist, quite forgotten now... He was a physicist, but is mainly known for his "electrotherapy" pioneering work. The word "darsonvalisation" was used in France for a few decades, = applying electrical currents to heal. He corresponded and met with Tesla about that. The "violet ray" therapeutical device stems from his research. My science dictionary states that d'Arsonval is also known for his contributions to telephone, microphone, galvanometer, myophone, liquid air, Dewar flask, and a "non-polarizable battery". I wonder if that last one is the connection to OU ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 05:27:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA08800; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:27:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:27:16 -0800 Message-ID: <38E0B356.3F9@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:27:50 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: [Fwd: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING???] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------727422615AC8" Resent-Message-ID: <"AVBC91.0.P92.pCBuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14465 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------727422615AC8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, This message came directly to me and was not sent to the list... so I have forwarded this to the list. I would like to make a quick comment on this post. I personally would like to see this list be free of commercial type advertisements. However, the exception should be the type of product that this list is all about in the first place. I also agree that permission should be obtained first... however... this permission should be put to a vote by the group. "self-promotion," no... group promotion, yes. If a researcher has a product that is list topic related then it should be brought to the attention of the group for peer examination. In the case of my "ion valve" where its inner parts must be a trade-secret at the present time then the only way for inspection is for group members to physically obtain it. This has an added value of putting a tangible into group discussion... so far I have seen very little of this concept within the list. -Bruce A. Perreault --------------727422615AC8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA01929 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:01:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from eskimo.com (billb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27260 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:01:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (billb@localhost) by eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA06737 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:01:26 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:01:25 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: "Bruce A. Perreault" Subject: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? In-Reply-To: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > I am now happy to announce that yesterday all testing > was completed on my solid-state radiant energy valve > design. I will be manufacturing about twenty or so of > these to be sold for the first time at the upcoming > July Conference. I'd like to hear comments from FREENRG-L users about commercial self-promotion on this list. In the past it has not been a problem. FREENRG-L users have no reason to advertize, except occasionally to sell or trade lab equipment. Mr. Perrault's product is very different. He's essentially using FREENRG-L as a channel for unpaid advertizing without asking our permission. True, the rules don't specifically forbid this: 6. ...Occasional on-topic advertizing by regular freenrg-l users is acceptable. Used equipment ads yes, get rich quick schemes no. The intention of #6 is to make FREENRG-L an advertizement-free zone, yet to allow long-time users to conduct "garage sales" of their old tech-junk. If somebody wishes to promote their business or sell its products, that is a very different matter. My own leaning is to keep FREENRG-L as a hobbyists-only forum, and to specifically forbid commercial self-promotion entirely. To eliminate all possibility of misinterpretation, I'd require that even the "garage sale" advertizers receive permission in advance. But first I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do FREENRG-L subscribers wish to see this list used for commercial self-promotion? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L --------------727422615AC8-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 05:55:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA15678; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:54:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:54:46 -0800 Message-ID: <38E0B9C8.6066@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:55:20 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: "Grav-cap" is a F/E oscillator? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Caws-1.0.tq3.bcBuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14466 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Rymel wrote: > > > if it does create ultrasound, wouldn't that account for his strange > > headaches and such? i remember Bruce saying something about ultrasound > > damaging the brain I invented a device back in the early 1980s that used my scull as a speaker-cone. The idea was to hear music from all directions. This device resonated my head mostly in the audio range. I experienced wide emotion swings and experinced had a cob-web type effect. I felt cob-webs beween my fingers. Since this experience I am careful of exposing myself to strong acoustic energy. <> > > It would be nice if this device doesn't emit some sort of weird, harmful > radiation. We don't want to become Marie Curie, and instantly doom > ourselves just by turning it on, not realizing that we will die in a few > decades from some kind of new cancer. There is a good book written by Eve Curie, Madame Curie's daughter, called "MADAME CURIE a biography by Eve Curie 1938. In this book you will find documented medical records that indicate that Madame Curie did not die of radiation poisen. In fact, her husband Piere do not die of exposure to radiation either... he was struck down by a horse drawn buggy and killed! <> Don't believe government propaganda... seek the truth in all things. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 06:06:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA19418; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 06:05:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 06:05:40 -0800 Message-ID: <200003280805490610.003B830C@mail.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <38E0B9C8.6066@cyberportal.net> References: <38E0B9C8.6066@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:05:49 -0600 From: "Edwin Wise" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Madame Curie (was: "Grav-cap" is a F/E oscillator?) Resent-Message-ID: <"LcxJ71.0.Jl4.pmBuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14467 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 3/28/00, at 7:59 AM, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: >There is a good book written by Eve Curie, Madame Curie's daughter, >called "MADAME CURIE a biography by Eve Curie 1938. In this book you >will find documented medical records that indicate that Madame Curie >did not die of radiation poisen. Ah, another American historical myth shot all to pieces! Erm, what *did* she die from, then? Edwin! -- Edwin Wise (ewise@simreal.com) Mad Scientist Current mad project at: http://www.simreal.com/Boris Check out my new beginner's Robotics book "Applied Robotics" at http://www.simreal.com/Robotics From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 07:03:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05876; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:02:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:02:46 -0800 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: "Bruce A. Perreault" , freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING???] Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:08:57 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: nuenergy@listbot.com References: <38E0B356.3F9@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38E0B356.3F9@cyberportal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00032810150000.15974@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA05851 Resent-Message-ID: <"u2G_y3.0.eR1.McCuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14468 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, Over the years there have been several times people have sold things here. Remember SMOT? I think Bruce's situation is different and don't feel that it an abuse of the list. His tube seems to fit the topic and is not overtly commercial. It's really no different than selling a CD or a kit. I would suggest though, that after initial offers, that exchanges be made offline, and limit list exchanges to posts about the device itself. Charlie -- Who is Don Alphonso, and what's all this about tweezers? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 08:02:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA26430; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:01:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:01:56 -0800 Message-ID: <38E0D790.D4C@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:02:24 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Madame Curie References: <38E0B9C8.6066@cyberportal.net> <200003280805490610.003B830C@mail.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0buT-1.0.tS6.qTDuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14469 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Edwin Wise wrote: > > On 3/28/00, at 7:59 AM, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > >There is a good book written by Eve Curie, Madame Curie's daughter, > >called "MADAME CURIE a biography by Eve Curie 1938. In this book you > >will find documented medical records that indicate that Madame Curie > >did not die of radiation poisen. > > Ah, another American historical myth shot all to pieces! Erm, what *did* > she die from, then? A broken heart... after her husband got killed she got even more absorbed into her work, only got a few hours per day, did not eat well. She was run down and contracted severe anemia (iron deficiency of the blood). So you could say that she died of chronic anemia, not "leukemia." -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 08:22:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03531; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:22:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:22:26 -0800 Message-ID: <38E0DC62.29A5@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:22:58 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: PURCHASE INQUIRY References: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> <38DFD576.E1FB11E3@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OAtTa1.0.ss.1nDuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14470 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Hi Bruce, > > I've been thinking about buying some of the Uranyl Nitrate from you. > A few questions; > > 1.) The province I live in is suspected of suffering heavy forest > fires this year, this is especially bad since we;ve had increasiong > numbers constantly over the last three years. Last year I appear to have > successfully abated some of the drought with a cloudbuster I built (CB). > My question to you, can I use Uranyl Nitrate to enhance the effectiveness > of the CB in the abatement of drought? Definately... however, you will not alot of it. You are better off to find some good pitchblende up there where you are at. > > 2.) Can you ship Uranyl Nitrate to Canada? No. :-( Customs would raise hell with this. > > 3.) Can you tell me what the special handling instructions for > this element are and or where I can find this info? http://www.alfa.com/cgi-bin/odc_webcat/jump.cgi?UID=1g8a91vLYz2frjaOuX&FILE=msds/36408.html -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 08:39:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA20444; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:38:49 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:38:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38E0E02A.567C@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:39:06 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My First Radiant Energy Product! References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CB@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38DFA617.525@cyberportal.net> <38DFAD4F.DBB79CB9@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rQbHY1.0.K_4.J0Euu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14471 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Martin, Without my fuel cell added to the output of the valve it appears that half the energy is coming from the battery that powers the high-voltage circuit that is being used as an ion pump.. the other half appears to be absorbed from the external circuit... via ions supplied from the earth. The spark discharge is different than it is normally from an electronic supply. Coming from an electronic supply the discharge is an electron discharge from the electron source to an electron deficiency. The discharge from the valve is an ion discharge... negative and positive ions rush head-on and cancel each other out resulting in a cold white discharge... no electrons are involved. There are many applications yet to be explored with this type of current flow. Electron flow through a conductive circuit is called "electronics." Ion flow through a conductive circuit is called "ionics." This is a whole new ballgame waiting to be played. -Bruce A. Perreault MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org > > > > > > > This is indeed good news! Will you be posting any pictures on your web site? > > > > There is not much to look at... it is about 3.5 inches long x 1-1/4 > > inches > > in diameter. Has an antenna input lead at the top, ground and output > > lead > > at the bottom. The materials are encapsulated in clear tubing that has > > two end caps. The component is dead until it is properly connected to an > > antenna and earth ground... it must also be fed by the high-voltage, > > high-frequency power supply that I have posted to my website, and must > > be > > tuned. The component functions as an ion valve... it does not "rectify" > > alternating current. It does what the "Moray valve" was intended to do. > > > > Which leads to two questions, > > What does tuning mean and, > > Without being specific, is the ratio of output to input power > > A. much larger than one > > B. slightly larger than one > > C. less than one > > D. none of you business Martin. > > Bruce, we need your final answer (now kill me please). > > Martin. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy-unsubscribe@listbot.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 08:46:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA14559; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:45:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:45:48 -0800 Message-ID: <38E0E1DC.6AE7@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:46:20 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: My First Radiant Energy Product! References: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> <38DF7FE9.C83A783@fca.unju.edu.ar> <38DFA24C.30F0@cyberportal.net> <38DFD731.4BEEDD8@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eGElc.0.GZ3.x6Euu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14472 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Bruce, > > what exactly can your valve be used for? It is an "ion valve." It rectifies negative and positive ion flow. It does not rectify electron current. This is the first step to building ionic circuits using negative and positive ion vectoring. Conventional electronics uses electron vectoring. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 08:47:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15410; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:47:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:47:33 -0800 Message-ID: <38E0E241.60C6@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:48:01 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: PURCHASE INQUIRY References: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> <38DFD576.E1FB11E3@telusplanet.net> <010601bf9845$91c47540$8cd666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9UbDV2.0.gm3.a8Euu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14473 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris O'Barr wrote: > > To Mr. P: What difference is there in the properties of Uranyl Nitrate > and other Uranyl compounds? I'm not sure because I have only been focussed on the radioactive aspect over the chemical aspect. Radiation wise there is really no difference. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 08:49:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15823; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:48:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:48:46 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:37:36 -0500 Subject: Pseudoscience, pathological science Message-ID: <20000328.113746.-404683.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"nZyt11.0.3t3.k9Euu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14474 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mr. Cagle, WITHOUT the name calling and personal attacks, would you PLEASE explain what your definitions of pathological science and pseudoscience are? I had asked in a previous post, but you neglected to respond to that portion. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 08:52:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA17954; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:52:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:52:10 -0800 Message-ID: <38E0E35A.19FB@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:52:42 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: [Fwd: Blacklight patent NOTrevoked; unexpected bonus] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"WUuIO.0.RO4.vCEuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14475 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from skylink.skylink.net (skylink.skylink.net [206.25.34.2]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA00193 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:40:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from gary (ppp048.max4.las-vegas.nv.skylink.net [207.49.186.48]) by skylink.skylink.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA13160; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:16:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003b01bf98d1$0b0188e0$8eba31cf@gary> Reply-To: "Gary Vesperman" From: "Gary Vesperman" To: "Mike Jarmus" Cc: "Bill Straw" Subject: Blacklight patent NOTrevoked; unexpected bonus Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:15:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Hi Mike! I received from you last Friday the following email: -----Original Message----- From: MIKE92144@aol.com To: vman@skylink.net Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Blacklight Power's Pat. 6,024,935; Hi, Gary, I just heard a rumor that the Patent Office has, or is considering, revoking Mills' blacklight patent, due to pressure or whatever, and that the examiner who handled it has been fired. Is any of this true? Thanks. Mike (end of email) I then checked the IBM patent server with http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/6024935 Blacklight's patent was not there. I then checked for patents 6024934 and 6024936. Those two patents were both on-line. I even clicked on the Hyper-Light-Speed Antenna patent 6025810, and that patent was also still on-line. (More on this very interesting patent below.) Coming so soon after the warrantless arrest of John Hutchison, I jumped to the conclusion that whomever had panicked over the emergence of new sources of energy and were trying to stamp out the flames, so to speak. I did have trouble believing the reality of an effort to stop Blacklight Power's energy developments with its millions of dollars in financing. It didn't help any that later in the day, I received a suggestion to check on Avista Corporation's fuel cell patent 6030718, and found that patent was also not on-line. Since then I have received more than one email to the effect that Blacklight Power's patent has NOT been revoked and even is still on-line. Even Avista responded to my inquiry that their patent has not been revoked. Oh? So yesterday I clicked on both Avista's and Blacklight's patent. Sure enough, both Avista's patent and Blacklight's patent were back on-line. I was especially eager to see Blacklight's patent since I had never seen it before. I have no idea why my computer's access to the IBM patent server was selective in this manner. It has been recommended to me to replace my Internet Explorer with Netscape. I did reboot my computer over the weekend. It still doesn't make any sense that last Friday, ONLY Blacklight's patent and Avista's patent were not available to my computer! I have received some emails that Blacklight's Bill Straw has been busy clearing up false rumors. You may be able to help him out. First some comments worth passing on, and then a discussion of the fascinating Hyper-Light-Speed Antenna patent. (First email - edited) If they made "499 claims" then they opened themselves up! All it takes is someone to challenge one of those claims with a previous patent, and Blacklight's entire patent would be voided. If one claim is proven to be scientifically unfounded then the entire patent becomes voided. There are 499 chances for their patent getting voided. They have a full year to patent any of the claims from the patent that is in public print. Simply put... they got greedy! (End of email) I am not qualified to comment on patent matters. It does appear logical that in some cases, patents should be divided when possible to assure stronger overall patent protection of an invention. (Second email) All patent applications become public knowledge 18 months after they are filed, if they are granted or not! Thanx and a tip 'o th' hat to GATT (End of email) (Third email - portions deleted.) Gary, I find it troublesome about the patent incident. I find it even more troubling to read your complaints about the DOE's lack of support for alternative energy sources. I do not know how politically involved you are both as a group and industry but, I suspect that you have not participated in the election process or supported a democratic candidate. Quite the contrary, your industry's support, if any, has gone almost exclusively to republican candidates (portion deleted). What democratic appointee is going to risk his or her career to do a favor for a company which prides itself in voting republican? (Edited) What democratic politician will spend a dime to support anything for people stridently antidemocratic? You have no chips to collect and no favors to ask. And yet, another election has come and almost gone with no visible support or participation on your part. Am I wrong? If so, prove it to me!! (Portion deleted.) My intent is neither to scold or patronize you but to point out that all your competitors are the biggest contributors to both parties--they hedge their bets. You do not require a lot of money--just a commitment to help the candidates. I have noticed that there are several of you that have the time and resources to do that. (End of email) My take on the political process is that if you want to change something, slow incremental progress is often more doable than large sudden revolutionary changes. (Fourth email) (Deleted) It is also listed in full at the US Patent & Trademark Office "Patent Full Text and Image Database" by using http://164.195.100.11/netahtml/srchnum.htm and putting in 6024935. (End of email) At least I now know of another way to access patents. The email that made all this trouble worthwhile follows next. Try this: http://www.evworld.com/letters/coldfusion.html (End of email) This is a letter written by Bill Straw, Executive V.P. of Blacklight Power that was printed in EV World magazine. Following his letter was another letter written by a Blacklight skeptic "Dr. Science" which has this gem: "You also mention the patent(s?) granted to Blacklight Power. Many silly patents exist. For some laughs check out patent # 6,025,810. This is a method to transmit a signal faster than the speed of light by sending it through another dimension. It also claims that exposing plants to energy from this other dimension accelerates plant growth. What nonsense!" I knew that torsion fields are the only things I know of which can travel faster than light. In 1998 I had proposed a concept which has led to a major advance in torsion field communications devices. I checked with a torsion field researcher, and he emailed that patent 6025810 is indeed a torsion field patent although it doesn't specifically use the words "torsion field". For those of you who are not familiar with torsion fields, I offer the following from my 40-page compilation of advanced technologies: "Practically unknown to Western science, several groups of Russian scientists have been developing torsion field physics and apparatus in secret for over three decades. A torsion field is a scalar product of two electromagnetic fields under special conditions. For example, a torsion field can be generated at the interface between two magnetic fields sweeping past each other. Torsion fields come in at least three different types – E fields, S fields, and G fields. Russian astronomers have determined that torsion fields are transmitted at a speed of one billion times the speed of light. Physicists at Los Alamos National Laboratory have transmitted Mozart’s 40th Symphony at 4.7 times the speed of light using torsion field generators and torsion field sensors. The European physics laboratory CERN has determined that torsion field information can be transmitted through 20 miles of mountain without attenuation. A commercial version is being developed which will be able to universally transmit information through the entire earth at many times the speed of light with a bandwidth wide enough to allow transmission of three-dimensional holographic video. The patent application is being prepared and should be ready for submittal within a few weeks. A unique design has been developed for a counter-rotating torsion field generator based on a newly patented micro-solenoid technology, counter-rotating mono-polar magnetic plates, mono-chromatic standing wave lasers, and some scalar parallel processor technologies from the Swiss Institute of Technology in Zurich. Some investment capital is being sought to develop a working prototype." (End of torsion field writeup) As I see it, torsion field communications devices will eventually replace communications satellites, fiber optic cables, and microwave transmission networks. But what's this about "another dimension" and "accelerating plant growth"? Perhaps torsion field research can lead to greater understanding of the theoretical underpinnings of claims of health improvements by using photo-luminescent therapy and Rife machines? Torsion field research may also lead to greater understanding of the even more mysterious Reikki form of healing. The following is also from my compilation of advanced technologies: "Since 1989 when I learned Reikki, I have struggled to understand the underlying mechanism. I have repeatedly seen it work, but it’s obvious Reikki’s effects are hardly explainable by conventional science. Recently I finally picked up a clue from a French acupuncturist’s report in www.keelynet.com/keely/belizal.text. The ancient Egyptians were able to correlate different wave forms with different geometric shapes. There is an implication that objects can store and transfer between them, when touching, subtle forms of information. So possibly when an ill or injured person is touched by healthy people with positive minds, information is somehow transferred to be used for correcting damaged tissue." One last comment on Blacklight Power: In an effort to further verify the supposed revocation of their patent, I did a search of Blacklight Power on a couple of the search engines. Now here is a company on the threshold of commercializing products which promise to be massively revolutionary on a global scale in more ways than one. I was amazed to see virtually zilch press coverage of Blacklight Power. Along with torsion field communications, plasma-injected transmutation of elements, and photo-luminescent therapy, BP is another true sleeping giant! Regards, Gary Vesperman Henderson, Nevada From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 10:17:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15046; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:16:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:16:30 -0800 Message-ID: <38E0F668.6EA0@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:14:00 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Travis Waites CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: A Brand new Science called "IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CE@zeus.dsalaska.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xOgpm.0.tg3.xRFuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Travis Waites wrote: > > Bruce, > > So the output of the fuel cell is "ionic" > No... the output of the fuel cell is electronic, electron current. The ouput of the valve is ionic flow. This can be used to create ultraviolet light that energizes my patent pending fuel cell. The is many aspects to this type of technology, not just one. I am forced to invent new types of ionic components that will work this whole new area of "ionics," Moray losely named "radiant energy." > > and how do you rectify to AC? This term should now read: Alternating Electron Current (AEC) You rectify AEC with solidstate electron valves (diodes). This is in reference to electronic circuitry. You would rectify Alternating Ion Flow (AIC) with ion valves. This is made in reference to ionic circuitry. -Bruce A. Perreault > > travis > > Without my fuel cell added to the output of the valve > it appears that half the energy is coming from the > battery that powers the high-voltage circuit that is > being used as an ion pump.. the other half appears to > be absorbed from the external circuit... via ions supplied > from the earth. The spark discharge is different than it > is normally from an electronic supply. Coming from an > electronic supply the discharge is an electron discharge > from the electron source to an electron deficiency. The > discharge from the valve is an ion discharge... negative > and positive ions rush head-on and cancel each other out > resulting in a cold white discharge... no electrons are > involved. There are many applications yet to be explored > with this type of current flow. Electron flow through a > conductive circuit is called "electronics." Ion flow through > a conductive circuit is called "ionics." This is a whole > new ballgame waiting to be played. > > -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 11:30:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05323; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:29:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:29:25 -0800 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <76.2850880.261261e1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:28:33 EST Subject: Re: "Tesla" magnetic rectifier To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 67 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y6m3p.0.qI1.JWGuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14477 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/27/00 9:51:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > In my tests of an iron-cored electromagnet, I decided to test the > electromagnet as a magnetic rectifier. The core was closed and consisted in > part of a neodym magnet to bias the core. The magnet is about 3 x 5 cm x > 1cm thick. The load in series with the electromagnet was a 0.25 Ohm > resistor, as the saturation effect depends on the current. I did see a peak > current in one direction about 20% larger than the other. (That side of the > sine wave was higher, but narrower) I observed this on a scope or peak > reading voltmeter (diode and capacitor). > On an average reading meter, digital or analog, I was not able to read any > DC voltage across the 0.25 Ohm load, <1 mV DC with the digital meter. This > was surprising to me. Seems surprising to me too. Of course, if the rms of the negative and positive parts of the waveform are the same, that might be expected. But without looking at the math in detail, I wouldn't expect it to be true in general. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 11:48:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10876; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:47:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:47:45 -0800 Message-ID: <38E10C80.3A80@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:48:16 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A Brand new Science called "IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CE@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E0F668.6EA0@cyberportal.net> <38E0FA19.EC44F8FC@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PgEyh1.0.nf2.WnGuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14478 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > Are you saying that the output of the valve isn't a wire with > electricity but the light (specifically UV) that the valve generates? No... the output is ionic flow, not electronic flow. It does not generate UV without first going through a glow discharge coil, another specially designed component. > > Is that why you are using words like 'appears' instead of more > concrete words to quantify the outputs and also why you didn't > want to sell it to Gary before he knew exactly what he is buying. Again, no... I can not quantify the ouputs until I build a ionics transformer that will output conventional electron current that my meter will read. I do not want people buying something that they have made all sorts of assumption about. Because later I may catch the fall out. What you see is what you get... no more, no less. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 11:58:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15237; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:57:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:57:50 -0800 Message-ID: <38E10D06.25C3@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:50:30 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tjw@alaska.net Subject: [Fwd: Re: A Brand new Science called "IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy)] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"QVY--2.0.yj3.zwGuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14479 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: <38E10C80.3A80@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:48:16 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A Brand new Science called "IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CE@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E0F668.6EA0@cyberportal.net> <38E0FA19.EC44F8FC@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > Are you saying that the output of the valve isn't a wire with > electricity but the light (specifically UV) that the valve generates? No... the output is ionic flow, not electronic flow. It does not generate UV without first going through a glow discharge coil, another specially designed component. > > Is that why you are using words like 'appears' instead of more > concrete words to quantify the outputs and also why you didn't > want to sell it to Gary before he knew exactly what he is buying. Again, no... I can not quantify the ouputs until I build a ionics transformer that will output conventional electron current that my meter will read. I do not want people buying something that they have made all sorts of assumption about. Because later I may catch the fall out. What you see is what you get... no more, no less. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 12:28:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24016; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:28:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:28:09 -0800 Message-ID: <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:06:40 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Travis Waites CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A Brand new Science called "IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fs1CP1.0.ps5.NNHuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14480 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Travis Waites wrote: > > This is finally starting to make a wee bit of sense. For years I have heard > bits and pieces that never went anywhere, i.e. UV is the key to the > universe. Finally I am beginning to see where all the pieces are going. I > guess the next big challenge is to create devices that can use the pure > ions. I already have a handle on this. > > Not that the current challenges are big enough, something a kin to > climbing Olympus Mons blindfolded. Can you refresh me, how effeciant > is the conversion of UV to DEC? The energy of the UV is absorbed by oxygen transforming it into ozone. This ozone is processed by a high-density metal/air cell converting its stored chemical energy into direct electron current. > > How can you have AIC? It is not alternating in the real sense of the word. You have a flow of alternating negative and postively charged ions. It is a flow of alternate charges rather than an actual reversal of flow. This is why Moray stated that "the valves are not rectifiers in the sense that they operate as radio valves in changing AC or HF to DC. They have an actual valve action in stopping the 'flow' of energy which may be thought of as oscillatory action similar to the waves of the sea, without rectification, from returning to the outer circuit, much as the waves of the sea from returning." p. 209 Sea of Energy 5th edition by John Moray. This rather cryptic lauguage now makes sense having the ion (radiant energy) valve in hand. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 12:30:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24705; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:29:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:29:46 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000328123205.215f4294@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:32:05 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Question to C. Cagle? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IyJMx.0.w16.uOHuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mr. Cagle and all, At 02:36 AM 03/28/00 -0700, you wrote: > There certainly are a few nice people here who tune in and are open >minded to new concepts in physics because they know that much of >modern physics is a shell game and that there are no genuine >recognized experts around when it comes to the hard questions to >which many people interested in fundamental physics seek the answers; >The physics I have presented there (at my website) is new, it is >revolutionary and it is also rock solid. I still do not understand your diagram with the B fields outside the toroid. Could you please explain this? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 12:44:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29180; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:43:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:43:54 -0800 Message-ID: <38E12503.252F8A44@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:32:51 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: BRUCE - Re: PURCHASE INQUIRY References: <38DF79F6.5C1E@cyberportal.net> <38DFD576.E1FB11E3@telusplanet.net> <38E0DC62.29A5@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JWP892.0.l77.9cHuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bruce, > > My question to you, can I use Uranyl Nitrate to enhance the effectiveness > > of the CB in the abatement of drought? > > Definately... however, you will not alot of it. you mean I would not need a lot of it? > You are better off to > find some good pitchblende up there where you are at. Bruce, what is 'pitchblende' and where could I get this? thanks Bruce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 13:15:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08372; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:15:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:15:16 -0800 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:12:48 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"ZQgTH2.0.j22.Z3Iuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In case anyone is wondering, what Mr. Cagle is doing here is an old usenet trick called Trolling. The idea is to post some inflammatory comments or remarks, or otherwise incite dissention and flames on a newsgroup or listserv. The reason Mr. Cagle does this is to polarize the group, drawing out those who feel affinity for the oppressed underdog. This in conjuction with a heavy religious message will leave him with a pool of people who will be VERY ammenable to his requests for money, without critical analysis. This technique is common, in this field we see it being used most often by Joe Newman, Dennis Lee, and most amusingly by the late Stan Meyer. Unlike these people, I will say that there is some very interesting material on Mr. Cagles site. His notion that pole changes could be triggered by immense telluric currents resulting from CME's is quite interesting. Unfortunately, all attempts to discuss scientific matters with Mr. Cagle soon degenerate into the kinds of exchanges we have been subjected too. If you noticed on the return of Mr. Cagle a few of the old time list members made statements, then refused to engage him further. This strategy is best summed up by the usenet saying, "Don't feed the trolls" Which I will now do. So go ahead Mr. Cagle, call me lots of bad names and throw more dust and smoke to obscure things. Set yourself up as the poor oppressed maligned truth teller. Or surprise us all and actually post information about your ideas in physics. As you seem to consider me to be the devils toejam, perhaps you can start by answering Dave's question. I for one promise the list I will stop action on this thread. It currently serves no purpose but your own. K. -----Original Message----- From: C. Cagle [mailto:singtech@telestream.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 5:06 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Sparky wrote: You know Rick, I was holding back there, but now you've gone and stirred up the old hornets nest again. You agent of Satan you. I went to the site, it wants to suck up some pretty serious information concerning you, probably the most alarming of which is your social security number. All you privacy buffs know what that means... Free? I've heard this story before. K. Your SSAN is pretty serious information? Why would *your* SSAN be pretty serious information since it is a matter of public record? You'll notice I'm making the offer to foreigners as well and they aren't required to provide their SSAN because they don't have a Social Security Account Number. The only serious information I'm collecting is the standard data that any privately held company would ordinarily retain on record for its stockholders if they needed to contact them or to report an income flow from the company to the stockholder. You should read the general rules or considerations that I'm asking the people to agree to prior to their applying for the free E-Stock in Singularity Technologies, Inc. You'll see that I'm not interested in giving away stock to people who demonstrate hostility towards the company. Why should I be? If you aren't interested in the offer what makes you think that you can frighten people away with your childish scare tactics and innuendos? When we vote to buy back the stock from people that we are giving away free to them we will need SSAN's to support our expenditures with the IRS. That's the only reason we're collecting that information now. If I were a Canadian or any other nationality I'd be collecting the relevant tax number or whatever they use to track taxable income in their particular country so as to be in agreement with the tax laws of my country. I don't require anything other than a self manufactured ID number (to track referrals) from people who are citizens of foreign countries. If someone is afraid to proliferate their SSAN for some legitmate reason then I'm all for their privacy. All they need to do is to send me an email expressing their concerns. I don't need their SSAN until I make the offer to buy back the shares. If people wish to enter an ID number other than their SSAN they can sure do that (as long as they follow the rules and don't try to cheat the program.) Regards, -- Charles Cagle, CEO Singularity Technologies, Inc. 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. Salem, OR 97304 503-362-7781 singtech@telestream.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 13:36:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16110; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:35:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:35:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:35:02 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: singtech@telestream.com Subject: Re: VIOLATION OF FREENRG-L RULES In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QE5gl3.0.Wx3.eMIuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, C. Cagle wrote: > Civilization is what people say that it is. Unsubscribe me if you > wish. It is, after all, your list. But in the civilization that I > hail from, calling someone a liar is a far more hostile and > uncivilized act than calling them an asshole. So you violate the no-flamewars rule, then clearly demonstrate that you refuse to follow rule #1 in the future. Very well. You are now unsubscribed from this forum. The relevant section of the FREENRG-L rules are below. If you dislike the rules I've set up here, and refuse to follow them, then I will not allow you to remain subscribed. One option is to create your own forum with your own rules. FREE E-LIST SERVICE PROVIDERS http://www.topica.com/services/index.html http://www.onelist.com http://www.egroups.com http://www.listbot.com ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages. If your message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do not send it to freenrg-L. Instead, use private email to send it directly to your target. VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION. If someone insults you, contact the moderator. See "Flamewars" below for details. ******************************************************************** FLAMEWARS Email psychology has an interesting effect: it breeds long outbursts of angry messages between two or more parties. To prevent these "flamewars", I must prohibit all impolite messages. This has some consequences. For example, if someone attacks you or insults you, you must abandon any hope of defending yourself in front of the group. Instead, defend yourself via private messages. Or, if someone blatantly violates the forum rules, you may NOT use the list to publicly embarrass them or attack them for their transgressions. Complain to the violator privately, or contact the moderator instead. "Politeness" and "insult" of course are in the eye of the beholder. I ask that people try not to take insult. But more importantly, I DEMAND that all users try to craft their messages so that the RECIPIENT won't take insult. Any complaints should be totally polite, respectful, emotionless, and non-accusatory, with no 'namecalling' whatsoever. Often this is impossible to do. The solution is very, VERY simple: SEND YOUR MESSAGE DIRECTLY TO YOUR OPPONENT, NOT TO FREENRG-L When a flamewar breaks out, participants usually blame a particular person for causing it, and feel justified in retaliating. However, flamewars are caused by participants, and in order to halt the endless cycle of hostile counterattacks, I must prohibit angry RESPONSES as well as initial insults. If you catch yourself thinking "well, he/she started it, I was just defending myself," since you easily find justification to violate rule #1 of this forum, perhaps you should not be here. Some wisdom regarding flaming... "Few people can be happy unless they hate some other person, nation or creed." - Bertrand Russell "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." - F. Scott Fitzgerald Being too ready to defend oneself is more dangerous than being too ready to admit a mistake." - Sir Karl Popper "Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders than by the arguments of its opponents." - anon "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you. If you really make them think, they'll hate you." - D.R.P. Marquis(1878-1937) ********************************************************************* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 13:53:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22977; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:52:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:52:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:52:35 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: C. Cagle no longer subscribed In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20000328123205.215f4294@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"latrp.0.vc5.hcIuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Dave Dameron wrote: > I still do not understand your diagram with the B fields outside the > toroid. Could you please explain this? Mr. Cagle has been unsubscribed from this list for refusing to follow the "no flamewars" rule, rule #1. Contact him at his private email addr: singtech@telestream.com ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 13:58:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25968; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:57:24 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:57:24 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:56:52 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? In-Reply-To: <38E0B356.3F9@cyberportal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"l6nV82.0.VL6.-gIuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > I am now happy to announce that yesterday all testing > was completed on my solid-state radiant energy valve > design. I will be manufacturing about twenty or so of > these to be sold for the first time at the upcoming > July Conference. I'd like to hear comments from FREENRG-L users about commercial self-promotion on this list. In the past it has not been a problem. FREENRG-L users have no reason to advertize, except occasionally to sell or trade lab equipment. Mr. Perrault's product is very different. He's essentially using FREENRG-L as a channel for unpaid advertizing without asking our permission. True, the rules don't specifically forbid this: 6. ...Occasional on-topic advertizing by regular freenrg-l users is acceptable. Used equipment ads yes, get rich quick schemes no. The intention of #6 is to make FREENRG-L an advertizement-free zone, yet to allow long-time users to conduct "garage sales" of their old tech-junk. If somebody wishes to promote their business or sell its products, that is a very different matter. My own leaning is to keep FREENRG-L as a hobbyists-only forum, and to specifically forbid commercial self-promotion entirely. To eliminate all possibility of misinterpretation, I'd require that even the "garage sale" advertizers receive permission in advance. But first I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do FREENRG-L subscribers wish to see this list used for commercial self-promotion? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 14:04:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27430; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:04:04 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:04:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38E12B01.C36D94D9@astra.ukf.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:58:25 +0100 From: Gavin Dingley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A Brand new Science called "IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CE@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E0F668.6EA0@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tJOTH.0.Ri6.FnIuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bruce, I'm new to this discussion group, so sorry if you are having to repeat your self. I was wondering if you have any on-line documents explaining the principles of "ionics." I have read the usual material by/on Moray but was left somewhat confused as to exactly what radiant energy is. I would appreciate any help you could send my way on this. Regards, Gavin Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > Travis Waites wrote: > > > > Bruce, > > > > So the output of the fuel cell is "ionic" > > > > No... the output of the fuel cell is electronic, > electron current. The ouput of the valve is ionic flow. > This can be used to create ultraviolet light that > energizes my patent pending fuel cell. The is many aspects > to this type of technology, not just one. I am forced to > invent new types of ionic components that will work this > whole new area of "ionics," Moray losely named "radiant > energy." > > > > > and how do you rectify to AC? > > This term should now read: Alternating Electron Current (AEC) > You rectify AEC with solidstate electron valves (diodes). > This is in reference to electronic circuitry. > > You would rectify Alternating Ion Flow (AIC) with ion valves. > This is made in reference to ionic circuitry. > > -Bruce A. Perreault > > > > > travis > > > > Without my fuel cell added to the output of the valve > > it appears that half the energy is coming from the > > battery that powers the high-voltage circuit that is > > being used as an ion pump.. the other half appears to > > be absorbed from the external circuit... via ions supplied > > from the earth. The spark discharge is different than it > > is normally from an electronic supply. Coming from an > > electronic supply the discharge is an electron discharge > > from the electron source to an electron deficiency. The > > discharge from the valve is an ion discharge... negative > > and positive ions rush head-on and cancel each other out > > resulting in a cold white discharge... no electrons are > > involved. There are many applications yet to be explored > > with this type of current flow. Electron flow through a > > conductive circuit is called "electronics." Ion flow through > > a conductive circuit is called "ionics." This is a whole > > new ballgame waiting to be played. > > > > -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 14:36:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05808; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:36:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:36:15 -0800 Message-ID: <38E14198.7BE6F1CB@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:34:48 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tLk6j2.0.cQ1.UFJuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: IMHO, advertising commercial self promotion is fine as long as the bulk of the threads provide meaningful value and worthwhile information to the interests of subscribers, the only time I'd have a problem is when this sort of thread devolves into something of little to no value, but I think there should always be an open window to dialogue that is meaningful and has rich content / information. The details of transactions or other similiar info (not relevant to the subject itself) where in only two parties have an interest in the dialogue should be discouraged.... William Beaty wrote: > On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > I am now happy to announce that yesterday all testing > > was completed on my solid-state radiant energy valve > > design. I will be manufacturing about twenty or so of > > these to be sold for the first time at the upcoming > > July Conference. > > I'd like to hear comments from FREENRG-L users about commercial > self-promotion on this list. In the past it has not been a problem. > FREENRG-L users have no reason to advertize, except occasionally to > sell or trade lab equipment. > > Mr. Perrault's product is very different. He's essentially using > FREENRG-L as a channel for unpaid advertizing without asking our > permission. True, the rules don't specifically forbid this: > > 6. ...Occasional on-topic advertizing by regular freenrg-l users is > acceptable. Used equipment ads yes, get rich quick schemes no. > > The intention of #6 is to make FREENRG-L an advertizement-free zone, yet > to allow long-time users to conduct "garage sales" of their old tech-junk. > If somebody wishes to promote their business or sell its products, that is > a very different matter. > > My own leaning is to keep FREENRG-L as a hobbyists-only forum, and to > specifically forbid commercial self-promotion entirely. To eliminate all > possibility of misinterpretation, I'd require that even the "garage sale" > advertizers receive permission in advance. > > But first I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do FREENRG-L subscribers > wish to see this list used for commercial self-promotion? > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 14:39:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06695; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:39:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:39:20 -0800 Message-ID: <002701bf9906$1f661320$4dd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: Subject: Re: VIOLATION OF FREENRG-L RULES Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:36:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"fBLDY2.0.Pe1.NIJuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This was quite offensive, can't take much can he... ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Cagle To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 4:36 AM Subject: Re: VIOLATION OF FREENRG-L RULES > > Mr. William J. Beaty wrote: > > >On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, C. Cagle wrote: > > > >> > My reply - this is obviously a lie > >> > >> Now you're simply being an asshole. > > > > > >FREENRG-L is not Newsgroups. Namecalling is a violation of forum rule #1. > >Those who cannot converse without becoming uncivilized are unwelcome > >on this list. > > > >I believe apologies to the rest of the subscribers here are in order. > > > > > > 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages. If your > > message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do > > not send it to freenrg-L. Instead, use private email to send it > > directly to your target. VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION. > > If someone insults you, contact the moderator. > > Civilization is what people say that it is. Unsubscribe me if you > wish. It is, after all, your list. But in the civilization that I > hail from, calling someone a liar is a far more hostile and > uncivilized act than calling them an asshole. Calling them an > asshole is direct and to the point and everyone understands what is > meant. Hopefully, the target of such a name will reflect on his > behavior and perhaps change - but when dealing with raging > hypocrites, such as Richardson, that isn't something you can count on. > > Of course, I tuned into this group to see it I could get away from > flaming and other nonsense which characterizes activity in many > newsgroups. But I wasn't here but just a short while and had > already gotten a number of caustic and hostile comments. But I > suppose I bring it on myself. When I see pseudoscientific thought > emerging and attempting to pass itself off as wisdom I am prone to > point it out whether on this list or in a newsgroup. Old habits die > hard. I have stayed away from commenting on the tin foil gravity > stuff and similar nonsense because nothing I would say there would be > welcome and it is such obvious bullshit that I wouldn't want to waste > my time. I simple delete the messages which cover those > foolishnesses. > > There certainly are a few nice people here who tune in and are open > minded to new concepts in physics because they know that much of > modern physics is a shell game and that there are no genuine > recognized experts around when it comes to the hard questions to > which many people interested in fundamental physics seek the answers; > and then there is also the collection of the same type who haunt > newsgroups whose sole function, as far as I can tell, is to act as > the king's spies (attacking anything that threatens the status quo). > When I posted an invitation to come to my website the innuendos and > attacks started. If I try to promote the physics which I have > discovered some chickenshit will immediately accuse me of promoting. > Damn rights, so what? Is there a crime in that? If I don't have a > product yet they will accuse me of hucksterism yet I take pains to > point out clearly on my website that we haven't built a working model > yet. Still, we do need development money. What the hell is unusual > about that, or wrong about that? Hell, Henry Ford needed investors > and so did Samuel F. B. Morse and Alexander G. Bell. The federal > government, thanks to our congressmen, has already invested billions > of taxpayer dollars in fusion R&D and has supported an army of > welfare queens in white coats for two generations who have produced a > negative return on that investment and are really no closer to > success today than when they started Project Sherwood in 1951. But > if I need money to build a reactor then I must be a con artist, eh? > Go figure the logic here. > > The physics I have presented there (at my website) is new, it is > revolutionary and it is also rock solid. I thought to promote > interest in what I'm doing by offering free shares in my company. > What's the response? Some asshole from this list immediately starts > putting me down for collecting people's SSAN's as part of the > registration process for issuing the stock. I'm only trying to cover > myself for any possible IRS audits or investigations from the > Securities and Exchange commission. Hell, I'm giving part of my > company away and I immediately get accused of doing something > nefarious because of it. Where were you, Mr. Beaty, when this was > happening? > > It is ok for the inmates here to insinuate that what ever I have > going or would like to get going is somehow sinister but the minute I > accuse Richardson of being an asshole for his behavior and hypocrisy > and for calling me a liar then I'm asked to apologize. Hmmm. > Amazing set of standards you have going. On one hand you create a > free environment for advocates of tin foil antigravity shamanism and > woolgathering to flourish but when someone with some very serious > (but new) concepts in physics shows up then it is ok for the dogs to > attack. And if I kick back then you say 'bad dog' to Richardson and > he puts his tail between his legs and rolls over admitting he's been > a bad dog. Sorry, I'm not a dog and I don't roll over nor do I > apologize on command. If a dog comes at me I'll kick the shit out > of it and I won't say 'sorry, boy' later on. I meant to kick him in > response for his bad manners in the first place. In fact, I'm more > apt to carry a lethal weapon so that I can finish the son of bitch > off the next time he attacks me, provoked or not. He's an > arrogant hypocritical ass who is never taken to task for his bad > manners nor hypocritical inanities. If anything, I think you ought > to apologize for not keeping him on a tighter leash. You want to > foster an air of free discussion void of accusations and bad manners > then wonderful. Perhaps your dogs got out of the pen when they saw > me coming and you didn't know about it. > > Or perhaps what I've actually stumbled onto in this list is people > who are really more interested in woolgathering and being taken in > by fraudulent or pathological science than they are in making real > progress in understanding the physics of the universe. I'm reminded > of a comment by Paul who wrote in 2 Tim 4:3-4 "For the time will > come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own > lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; > And they shall turn away {their} ears from the truth, and shall be > turned unto fables." > > In other words, all the bullshit in the world is welcome here and to > make it appear like everyone is really open minded, you'll welcome > with especially wide arms the utter nonsense that the mainstream has > rejected....but when it comes down to serious physics (by which I > have rejected the mainstream for a lack of epistemological soundness > in their pseudoscience and pathological practices) then I'm not > really welcome here either. But nevertheless you must keep up > appearances of openness. That is like allowing a certain guest to > enter who has taken you up on your open invitation and because you > don't want it to be said that you turn anyone away but then letting > other guests so abuse him that he responds in kind and then you tell > him he must leave for bad behavior. That is hypocrisy to the bone, > Mr. Beaty. When the real stuff (genuine true physics) shows up > everyone of you all know that all of the bullshit will end and every > damn fraud and huckster and liar will be shown in their true light; > and every fool who bought into the frauds and hucksterisms and lies > will also be revealed. That alone is strong incentive to maintain > things as they are. And that goes for both the mainstream and for > the way left field people who gather here. I sense that there is a > greater desire by many subscribers to this list to hear and maintain > the flow of the bullshit than to actually come to the point where > physics becomes a finished enterprise. > > Regards, > > Charles Cagle, CEO > Singularity Technologies, Inc. > 1640 Oak Grove Road, N.W. > Salem, OR 97304 > 503-362-7781 > singtech@telestream.com > http://www.singtech.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 14:47:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09069; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:46:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:46:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:46:39 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? In-Reply-To: <38E0B356.3F9@cyberportal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Z2vTT1.0.XD2.QPJuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > Bill, > > This message came directly to me and was not sent to > the list... so I have forwarded this to the list. Thanks! Yes, it was supposed to go to the list as well. > I would like to make a quick comment on this post. > > I personally would like to see this list be free of > commercial type advertisements. However, the exception > should be the type of product that this list is all > about in the first place. Yes, and that's why I want to hear subscribers' opinions. Usually a subscriber has no personal interest in material being sold. If we are building magnetic devices, giving out a magnet suppliers' address is not "advertizing." If on-topic advertizements are allowed, but no limits are imposed, then we eventually have the equivalent of the "spam" problem: many separate advertizers wish to send JUST ONE message, and the messages add up to a continuous stream. Nothing in the rules forbids this. The "SMOT" episode had self-promotion issues, and I think there are still some people who never obtained refunds (or am I wrong?) As in the case of the SMOT, even if the device is genuine, anyone who fails to replicate the phenomenon might accuse the inventor of fraud, and regard FREENRG-L as a channel for hoaxers to get money from their victims. The easy way around the issue is to ban advertizing entirely. A more rational response would be to require permission in advance, and to put a big "ADVERTIZEMENT:" lable on the message subject line, and perhaps a disclaimer in the message body. Then there's the issue of unhappy purchasers getting refunds. > If a researcher has a > product that is list topic related then it should be > brought to the attention of the group for peer examination. But if peer examination is the goal, then there is no need for money to change hands. Once the operation of a device has been verified by one, then many might wish to purchase it as parts for a "science project". > In the case of my "ion valve" where its inner parts must > be a trade-secret at the present time then the only way for > inspection is for group members to physically obtain it. Or they could sign an NDA and send a deposit while investigating the device, with the requirement that they return the device undamaged (and perhaps require that they announce their results,) if they wish to have their deposit refunded. The issue of purchaser refunds is avoided. It transforms the situation from "sales" into "science," and eliminates any possibility that somebody will feel ripped off and cry fraud. Of course once the operation of the device is verified, then things are different. It is transformed from an "invention being reviewed" into a "weird-science product". Many "weird science" products are currently for sale on internet. Should FREENRG-L be used by their sellers for advertizing? What about the certain percentage of them which ARE frauds? It's easier to avoid the issue by limiting advertizements to websites, and keeping them off the list. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:08:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA17363; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:07:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:07:49 -0800 Message-ID: <001701bf9904$8ad1fe00$4dd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000328004805.43420.qmail@hotmail.com> <38E00F33.4C9A3B31@dabney.com> <001701bf9865$100efdc0$5ed666ce@default> <38E03A40.2E275D87@dabney.com> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:25:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"q9N6b.0.BF4.3jJuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Emmett Hawkins To: Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 11:51 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > On the contrary, to know is to know HOW to do. If one knows how to saw a > > log in half, one is capable of sawing a log in half. > > Ah, but you're still leaving out a critical premise. If one knows how to > saw a log in half, and has the ABILITY to saw a log in half, one can do > it. Using your example, there are several instances which could prevent > one from accomplishing this, even if one had the knowledge. I.e. if one > did not have a saw, if one were not physically able to work it, someone > else prevented one from doing it etc. I don't think you got my point. I would consider that not knowing how to saw a log in half. If one knew how to saw a log in half without a saw, one can saw a log in half without a saw. Don't be so linear, assume there are things that you don't comprehend with your feeble human mind (just so you know that's not an insult, I have a feeble human mind as well). Even if we had perfect knowledge, > we would still have the limitations imposed by our human forms. If there > is a way to manipulate other substance directly with our minds ("the > force") then I would agree with you. > > Knowledge is critical, it is half of the equation, but it is only half. > > -- > Emmett Hawkins > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:16:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA19948; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:16:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:16:08 -0800 Message-ID: <38E137F9.2EC52709@dabney.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:53:46 -0600 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cQHlB1.0.Wt4.tqJuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > But first I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do FREENRG-L subscribers > wish to see this list used for commercial self-promotion? Personally, I don't mind researchers simply letting everyone know a product is available, as long is it is related to list topics. This is interesting as well as informative. However I think it would be better if private e-mail were used for the details. Just my opinion. -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:27:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA23455; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:27:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:27:09 -0800 Message-ID: <38E13FDF.37C2@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:27:27 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Travis Waites CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Moray's folly References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689D4@zeus.dsalaska.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cUCrn1.0.Ok5.7_Juu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Travis Waites wrote: > > Bruce, > > Not the good one, but the one that is still alive. It might we wise > to distance yourself from Morays work. I know what he has done has been very > influntal, but it is not him that you have to worry about. I'm sure that > Moray Sr is rolling in his grave right now knowing that his son(?) is trying > to squash the same fire that burned within him. i know that you have given > credit to Moray and quoted him at every step, but now might be a good time > to lay off the "Radiant Energy" and go with the ionic flow. It certainly appears this way. Yes... I am thinking about starting a fresh webpage devoted strictly to "Radio Ionics." This will have to be after I get some free time. This will probably be in late fall. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:33:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25339; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:33:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:33:32 -0800 Message-ID: <38E1416D.2D67@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:34:05 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: A Brand new Science called "IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) NOW (RADIO IONICS) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> <38E11970.C2F1DB93@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lGT1c3.0.gB6.85Kuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > But are these ions travelling along a metal wire? I know that electrons > move real slow through a ohmic conductor but even the smallest of > ions is much bigger. Yes... along the wire, not through it. This is why Moray was able to use very small wire without frying them up. > > I can visualize each ion being drawn along by the attraction of the > opposite charged ones ahead of it and most importantly, having a > one way gate (valve) that stops any from being attracted to the > oppositely charged ones behind it. > > Sounds like getting the right frequency and hence the ion speed is > going to be difficult. Is that where the tuning comes in? > > This is different. The valve acts more like a filter of sorts. It sorts out the negative and positive charges sending them on their seperate ways. It is not a matter of tuning. It is the resonance of the electronic pump that has to be in syncronization with the valve circuit characteristics. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:35:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25902; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:34:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:34:55 -0800 Message-ID: <38E141C3.69C1@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:35:31 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Radio Ionics References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CE@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E0F668.6EA0@cyberportal.net> <38E0FA19.EC44F8FC@globalcrossing.com> <38E10C80.3A80@cyberportal.net> <38E11FA9.F9E4A28C@origin.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k9dP92.0.bK6.U6Kuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hansford wrote: > > Bruce, > > Any chance you have tapped the mysterious "Orgone" force here as well? This is possible. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:41:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27308; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:41:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:41:17 -0800 Message-ID: <38E14343.150@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:41:55 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: "RADIO IONICS" (Morays Radiant Energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CE@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E0F668.6EA0@cyberportal.net> <38E12B01.C36D94D9@astra.ukf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o2BG12.0.bg6.SCKuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gavin Dingley wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > > I'm new to this discussion group, so sorry if you are having to repeat > your self. I was wondering if you have any on-line documents explaining > the principles of "ionics." I have read the usual material by/on Moray > but was left somewhat confused as to exactly what radiant energy is. > > I would appreciate any help you could send my way on this. "Radio Ionics" is still pretty new to me. I recently coined this phrase after perfecting a solidstate ion valve. We will all have to learn as new applications develop. Please bear in mind that I will make mistakes along the way. I am a person that will admit to mistakes and then move forward. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:41:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27374; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:41:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:41:34 -0800 Message-ID: <00cf01bf990f$253d5980$405cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: Subject: Re: "d'Arsonval resonant overunity generator"? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:40:52 -0500 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"HCKRT.0.ah6.jCKuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > D'arsonval was the inventor of the movement used in early electrical > meters.. don't know much more about him than that. Yep, I knew that. But I felt certain that I had read his name in some sort of alternative-science context recently. As I said, I checked the most likely books I could think of, and one Bearden file that I could locate easily, and found nothing. I haven't checked the couple of issues of the BSRF journal that I have, yet. Then again, it could've just been deja vu. > I think this particular claim is nonsense, simply from context. Well, it wouldn't be the only suspicious claim in the particular article I was reading, but it seems a bit specific to be bogus. I don't usually read the more far-out conspiracy literature, but this turned up in a web search I was doing on something else. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:44:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18819; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:43:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:43:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38E143AC.17D4@cyberportal.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:43:40 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Chris O'Barr" CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "RADIO IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CE@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E0F668.6EA0@cyberportal.net> <38E0FA19.EC44F8FC@globalcrossing.com> <38E10C80.3A80@cyberportal.net> <005301bf9908$a4cc3e20$4dd666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gm7pu2.0.vb4.NEKuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris O'Barr wrote: > > Do you know how you will go about building the transformer? A big affirmative... ;-) It's net yet built and tested yet so please do not hold me to it. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:51:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30992; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:50:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:50:58 -0800 Message-ID: <007501bf990f$aa840080$ea9910cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:45:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"EyyU33.0.5a7.WLKuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Of course, since Bill is the owner of this list, his say is final. However, I have a few comments below. > > I personally would like to see this list be free of > > commercial type advertisements. However, the exception > > should be the type of product that this list is all > > about in the first place. > > Yes, and that's why I want to hear subscribers' opinions. The occasional announcement of a new free-nrg, antigrav, or other weird science product sounds like it falls within the boundaries of this list. In addition, I for one would like to see this for 2 reasons: 1) to demonstrate a weird phenomenon, and 2) to find out about weird devices that exist on the market. I don't have a lot of time to scan the magazines, the web, newsgroups,... to find all the weird science devices. In fact, one reason I subscribe to this list is to stay abreast of what currently exists in this 'field'. True, it is a hobbyist forum. However, in this case these devices are so novel, and potentially ground-breaking in one way or another, spreading useful advertising is warranted. What about books, tapes, ...? What about the CD that the Society for Amateur Scientists are putting out that lists all the back issues of the Amateur Scientist column from Scientific American for the past 50+ years? This is just one example of selling information. Books, tapes, ... Of course, this is relevant to hobbyists, but it is still advertising. Or what about that Kooistra's Marinov Motor kit that he says he will sell soon? Are kits prohibited if they demonstrate an unusual effect? I think in this case, it is well warranted. > Usually a subscriber has no personal interest in material being sold. If > we are building magnetic devices, giving out a magnet suppliers' > address is not "advertizing." This is often necessary in order to replicate many of the devices reported on this list. For example, suppliers of tin for this gravity capacitor experiment. > If on-topic advertizements are allowed, but no limits are imposed, then we > eventually have the equivalent of the "spam" problem: many separate > advertizers wish to send JUST ONE message, and the messages add up to a > continuous stream. Nothing in the rules forbids this. > > The "SMOT" episode had self-promotion issues, and I think there are still > some people who never obtained refunds (or am I wrong?) As in the case of > the SMOT, even if the device is genuine, anyone who fails to replicate the > phenomenon might accuse the inventor of fraud, and regard FREENRG-L as a > channel for hoaxers to get money from their victims. > > The easy way around the issue is to ban advertizing entirely. A more > rational response would be to require permission in advance, and to put a > big "ADVERTIZEMENT:" lable on the message subject line, and perhaps a > disclaimer in the message body. Then there's the issue of unhappy > purchasers getting refunds. I can see advertising causing either of these cases - either too much advertising, including any resulting scams, or FLAME wars resulting from the products advertised. Placing a label in the subject line is a good idea. So, is a disclaimer. Bill, I imagine you will write down what you eventually intend to do for advertising on this list somewhere on your webpage. > > If a researcher has a > > product that is list topic related then it should be > > brought to the attention of the group for peer examination. > > But if peer examination is the goal, then there is no need for money to > change hands. Once the operation of a device has been verified by one, > then many might wish to purchase it as parts for a "science project". Let's face it. Any unusual product that on the surface violates conventional science should, ideally, be shown on the list so others can verify it, and authenticate it. At least that way, you can be more assured that it is not a scam. After it has been corroborated, then it can be "sold". Of course, that is in the ideal world. The reality of it is like Perrault's device. He put a lot of energy and time creating a working (we hope) energy device. So, he wants to sell it, but keep the information proprietary. That's fine. I think the announcements he has had do not count towards excessive advertising. However, keeping that in mind, someone else should verify his claims and let the rest of us know if his device indeed works. A sort of very informal "Weird Science Better Business Bureau". > > In the case of my "ion valve" where its inner parts must > > be a trade-secret at the present time then the only way for > > inspection is for group members to physically obtain it. > > Or they could sign an NDA and send a deposit while investigating the > device, with the requirement that they return the device undamaged (and > perhaps require that they announce their results,) if they wish to have > their deposit refunded. The issue of purchaser refunds is avoided. It > transforms the situation from "sales" into "science," and eliminates any > possibility that somebody will feel ripped off and cry fraud. Of course > once the operation of the device is verified, then things are different. > It is transformed from an "invention being reviewed" into a "weird-science > product". > This is a good idea. Perhaps a few labs could replicate under this Non-Disclosure Agreement. > Many "weird science" products are currently for sale on internet. Should > FREENRG-L be used by their sellers for advertizing? What about the > certain percentage of them which ARE frauds? It's easier to avoid the > issue by limiting advertizements to websites, and keeping them off the > list. Limited announcements, I think, are acceptable. As well, as discussions about their veracity. However, continuous advertising should be banned. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 15:53:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA20786; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:53:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:53:23 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:52:41 -1000 To: From: Rick Monteverde Subject: RE: New Physics - Free E-Stock! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"cNRzN.0.Z45.jNKuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nice shot! Too bad the target got yanked away just before you squeezed the send button. ;) What you said too about interesting stuff about CMEs/telluric currents on his site. His interview on Art Bell some time ago had me captivated for a bit, but then he collapsed (as he always seems to do) into that religious psychobabble and Art threw him off the show and blacklisted him. I was pretty disappointed. He must have said some pretty raw crap to A.B to get him that tweaked. Now he won't even let callers mention the guy's name! I knew it would only be a few minutes before he got thrown off here (again). - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >In case anyone is wondering, what Mr. Cagle >is doing here is an old usenet trick called >Trolling. The idea is to post some inflammatory >comments or remarks, or otherwise incite dissention >and flames on a newsgroup or listserv. > >The reason >Mr. Cagle does this is to polarize the group, From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 16:02:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA03076; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:02:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:02:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:30:08 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200003282330.SAA21178@world.std.com> To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? (SMOT) Resent-Message-ID: <"Emn4s.0.sl.AWKuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill B_ wrote: >The "SMOT" episode had self-promotion issues, and I think there are still some people who never obtained refunds (or am I wrong?) Did anyone receive a refund??? I personally am still out the $300AD I sent via international money order ($25US extra fee at my bank) for two of Greg Watson's SMOT kits right before he bagged it on us. So far as I know, Greg Watson never followed up, even though he wrote a couple emails saying he would, or that he never intended to take people's money, or some such. Baloney! He defrauded me, and some time I will look into filing criminal mail fraud charges against him, however that may be done internationally. Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 16:15:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08183; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:15:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:15:04 -0800 Message-ID: <38E14AF1.D682C93A@dabney.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:14:41 -0600 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: fake discoveries References: <20000328004805.43420.qmail@hotmail.com> <38E00F33.4C9A3B31@dabney.com> <001701bf9865$100efdc0$5ed666ce@default> <38E03A40.2E275D87@dabney.com> <001701bf9904$8ad1fe00$4dd666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"faPpU3.0.i_1.7iKuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris O'Barr wrote: > I don't think you got my point. I would consider that not knowing how to > saw a log in half. If one knew how to saw a log in half without a saw, one > can saw a log in half without a saw. Don't be so linear, assume there are > things that you don't comprehend with your feeble human mind (just so you > know that's not an insult, I have a feeble human mind as well). Yes, I was trying to apply examples of imperfect knowledge to our hypothetical world which has perfect knowledge. A rather grave flaw in my logic. After thinking about it some more I believe you're probably right. Perfect knowledge would lead, not only to absolute power, but to immortality and complete independence as well. We would be in complete control of our own destinies and would therefore be gods. Unfortunately this is a view held by many today but one I utterly reject. To start, in order to comprehend and completely understand the universe, one would have to be outside of it. Not only outside of it but entirely separate from it. We can no more understand the universe than an unborn child can understand the world outside. Even if it had the mental capacity, it's viewpoint is wrong, as is ours. To overcome this would require a means of obtaining knowledge apart from our 5 senses. This we do not have. But imperfect knowledge has brought us a long way, and will take us much further still. There is far more here than you or I will ever learn, without trying to be God. :-) Fortunately we don't have to entirely understand things in order to use or enjoy them. -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 16:15:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08133; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:14:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:14:59 -0800 Message-ID: <00cd01bf990f$2220d740$405cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <200003281149.NAA06368@front4m.grolier.fr> Subject: Re: "d'Arsonval resonant overunity generator"? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:26:51 -0500 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Wggtw2.0.w-1.3iKuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Well, I'm always glad to see mentioned the name of Jacques Arsene > d'Arsonval (1854 - 1940), a brilliant French scientist, quite forgotten > now... He was a physicist, but is mainly known for his "electrotherapy" > pioneering work. The word "darsonvalisation" was used in France for a few > decades, = applying electrical currents to heal. He corresponded and met > with Tesla about that. The "violet ray" therapeutical device stems from his > research. Ah! That was the information I remember reading about him, although I'm still unable to remember where. > My science dictionary states that d'Arsonval is also known for his > contributions to telephone, microphone, galvanometer, myophone, liquid air, > Dewar flask, and a "non-polarizable battery". I wonder if that last one is > the connection to OU ? I don't know. Is anyone in touch with Tom Bearden? That sounds like a term he'd use. In fact, the conspiracy author I was reading claimed that the d'Arsonval OU device was being used to power an "endothermic energy beam". That sounds like another Beardenism. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 16:16:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA25804; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:15:57 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:15:57 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:14:51 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: the geodynamo (was re: New Physics - Free E-Stock!) Resent-Message-ID: <"KmPNS2.0.lI6.riKuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >His notion that pole changes could be triggered by >immense telluric currents resulting from CME's is >quite interesting. Unfortunately, all attempts to speaking of pole changes... these folks have an interesting simulation (with some very nice color illustrations) of the earth's magnetic field, as generated by the rotation of the molten core... http://es.ucsc.edu/~glatz/geodynamo.html it includes the occasional pole reversal, which is not triggered by any external forces, rather, it is simply a consequence of the chaotic behavior of the system... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 16:32:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA15460; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:32:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:32:10 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:55:20 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: New Physics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oSqTi1.0.Qn3.9yKuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Keith Nagel wrote: > > Unlike these people, I will say that there is some > very interesting material on Mr. Cagles site. > His notion that pole changes could be triggered by > immense telluric currents resulting from CME's is > quite interesting. Unfortunately, all attempts to > discuss scientific matters with Mr. Cagle soon > degenerate into the kinds of exchanges we have > been subjected too. If you noticed on the return > of Mr. Cagle a few of the old time list members > made statements, then refused to engage him further. > I was very interested in this material, as Radio Science is the field in which I did my graduate work in college. As a radio amateur, I monitor the solar cycle and its effects on the earth rather intensely, as we consider the ionosphere and its propagation our "toy" to play with. The way Cycle 23 has been going, we will not be experiencing this pole change phenomenon this time. We'll have to wait another 12 years or so for the catastrophe. Cycle 23 has been pretty much a disappointnemt, nowhere near the fabled peak of Cycle 19 in the late 50's and not even up to the peak of Cycle 22. The peak of Cycle 23 is predicted for August or September of this year, with SFI's (solar flux index) maybe hitting 230-240. Most of the flares so far have been of the "M" class. Zack (W9SZ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 17:46:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05683; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:45:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:45:36 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:56:48 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"wlBMN2.0.eO1._0Muu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14506 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill - >I'd like to hear comments from FREENRG-L users about commercial >self-promotion on this list. In the past it has not been a problem. >FREENRG-L users have no reason to advertize, except occasionally to >sell or trade lab equipment. I don't like the part about the mystery element being encased in "hacksaw" proof plastic (so I'm thinking 'solvents...'). If this was about full disclosure, it would be fully within the spirit of this list. But the fact that it's got the usual secret McGuffin that can't be revealed for whatever reason, makes it really marginal here, IMO. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 17:49:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA18872; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:48:43 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:48:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00bf01bf9922$4684a860$4e6bd9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: References: Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:48:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"g-IoG.0.cc4.r3Muu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14507 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 3:56 PM Subject: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? > But first I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do FREENRG-L subscribers > wish to see this list used for commercial self-promotion? No..I do not. Regards, Robert > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 19:08:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03806; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:08:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:08:19 -0800 Message-ID: <38E1739C.808C9F2C@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:08:12 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2oySt3.0.Gx.YENuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > My own leaning is to keep FREENRG-L as a hobbyists-only forum, and to > specifically forbid commercial self-promotion entirely. To eliminate > allpossibility of misinterpretation, I'd require that even the "garage > sale"advertizers receive permission in advance. > > But first I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do FREENRG-L subscribers > wish to see this list used for commercial self-promotion? Let's face it, parts are tough to find! We need to stick together for our mutual benifit in being able to even afford to conduct this research. I dont mind people advertising here so long as what they are selling can be reasonably demonstrated as having some sort of connection to FREE ENERGY and/or WeirdScience...with the possible exception of psychotronics and the usual new-age (rhymes with sewage) babble that accompanies it. -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 19:13:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05780; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:12:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:12:56 -0800 Message-ID: <38E174A7.4760ECA8@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:12:39 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net CC: Travis Waites , freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: Moray's folly References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689D4@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E13FDF.37C2@cyberportal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7U0Nf1.0.DQ1.sINuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > Travis Waites wrote: > > > > Bruce, > > > > Not the good one, but the one that is still alive. It might we wise > > to distance yourself from Morays work. I know what he has done has been very > > influntal, but it is not him that you have to worry about. I'm sure that > > Moray Sr is rolling in his grave right now knowing that his son(?) is trying > > to squash the same fire that burned within him. i know that you have given > > credit to Moray and quoted him at every step, but now might be a good time > > to lay off the "Radiant Energy" and go with the ionic flow. > > It certainly appears this way. > > Yes... I am thinking about starting a fresh webpage devoted strictly > to "Radio Ionics." This will have to be after I get some free time. > This will probably be in late fall. > > -Bruce A. Perreault Why bother? John Moray has NO CLAIM against the term Radiant Energy, which as you and I (and perhaps some of our fellows here) both know, was a term that was first coined by N. Tesla! -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 19:36:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14276; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:35:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:35:45 -0800 Message-ID: <000901bf992f$8ad39d20$5ed666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000328004805.43420.qmail@hotmail.com> <38E00F33.4C9A3B31@dabney.com> <001701bf9865$100efdc0$5ed666ce@default> <38E03A40.2E275D87@dabney.com> <001701bf9904$8ad1fe00$4dd666ce@default> <38E14AF1.D682C93A@dabney.com> Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:33:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"fvTwZ1.0.zU3.HeNuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Emmett Hawkins To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 7:14 PM Subject: Re: fake discoveries > Chris O'Barr wrote: > > > I don't think you got my point. I would consider that not knowing how to > > saw a log in half. If one knew how to saw a log in half without a saw, one > > can saw a log in half without a saw. Don't be so linear, assume there are > > things that you don't comprehend with your feeble human mind (just so you > > know that's not an insult, I have a feeble human mind as well). > > Yes, I was trying to apply examples of imperfect knowledge to our > hypothetical world which has perfect knowledge. A rather grave flaw in > my logic. After thinking about it some more I believe you're probably > right. Perfect knowledge would lead, not only to absolute power, but to > immortality and complete independence as well. We would be in complete > control of our own destinies and would therefore be gods. > > Unfortunately this is a view held by many today but one I utterly > reject. To start, in order to comprehend and completely understand the > universe, one would have to be outside of it. Not only outside of it but > entirely separate from it. We can no more understand the universe than > an unborn child can understand the world outside. Even if it had the > mental capacity, it's viewpoint is wrong, as is ours. To overcome this > would require a means of obtaining knowledge apart from our 5 senses. > This we do not have. > > But imperfect knowledge has brought us a long way, and will take us much > further still. There is far more here than you or I will ever learn, > without trying to be God. :-) Fortunately we don't have to entirely > understand things in order to use or enjoy them. I agree. I was just speaking theoreticly. Have a nice day! ;) > > -- > Emmett Hawkins > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 19:40:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16377; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:40:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:40:06 -0800 Message-ID: <001501bf9930$23302160$5ed666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:37:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"6Vb93.0.c_3.KiNuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I suggest you wait until the July conference...thing before you start discussing the device. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Monteverde To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 6:56 PM Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? > Bill - > > >I'd like to hear comments from FREENRG-L users about commercial > >self-promotion on this list. In the past it has not been a problem. > >FREENRG-L users have no reason to advertize, except occasionally to > >sell or trade lab equipment. > > I don't like the part about the mystery element being encased in > "hacksaw" proof plastic (so I'm thinking 'solvents...'). If this was > about full disclosure, it would be fully within the spirit of this > list. But the fact that it's got the usual secret McGuffin that can't > be revealed for whatever reason, makes it really marginal here, IMO. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 20:36:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06152; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:35:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:35:54 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:24:39 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <38E14198.7BE6F1CB@telusplanet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"9Bfpi2.0.yV1.gWOuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Don, I agree with your view. Normally I wouldn't do a "me too" post but you said it well. Fred > > IMHO, advertising commercial self promotion is fine as long as > the bulk of the > threads provide > meaningful value and worthwhile information to the interests of > subscribers, > the only time I'd have a problem > is when this sort of thread devolves into something of little to > no value, but > I think there should always > be an open window to dialogue that is meaningful and has rich content / > information. The details of transactions > or other similiar info (not relevant to the subject itself) > where in only two > parties have an interest in the dialogue > should be discouraged.... > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 21:11:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18171; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:11:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:11:44 -0800 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <61.25e7f06.2612ea67@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:11:03 EST Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 67 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q2V4L1.0.pR4.G2Puu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/28/00 2:09:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, billb@eskimo.com writes: > > I'd like to hear comments from FREENRG-L users about commercial > self-promotion on this list. In the past it has not been a problem. > FREENRG-L users have no reason to advertize, except occasionally to > sell or trade lab equipment. > > > My own leaning is to keep FREENRG-L as a hobbyists-only forum, and to > specifically forbid commercial self-promotion entirely. To eliminate all > possibility of misinterpretation, I'd require that even the "garage sale" > advertizers receive permission in advance. > > But first I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do FREENRG-L subscribers > wish to see this list used for commercial self-promotion? > My opinion is that there has not been an objectionable amount amount of commercial self promotion on this list, except on rare occassions. Certainly if regular list contributors come up with something they would like to offer for sale -- which would not likely happen often -- that doesn't seem objectionable. On the other hand, if "salesmen" bombard the list with commercial offers, that woud definitely be a problem. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 23:04:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19134; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:04:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:04:14 -0800 Message-ID: <01BF990A.4841D5A0@istf-1-27.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:06:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BF990A.4841D5A0" Resent-Message-ID: <"W8Of93.0.og4.jhQuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF990A.4841D5A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think it is very useful for regular list members to be able to offer = specific items for sale, on an occasional basis -- but not on a = commercial basis. As Bill wrote: >6. ...Occasional on-topic advertizing by regular freenrg-l users is > acceptable. Used equipment ads yes, get rich quick schemes no. > >The intention of #6 is to make FREENRG-L an advertizement-free zone, = yet >to allow long-time users to conduct "garage sales" of their old = tech-junk.=20 >If somebody wishes to promote their business or sell its products, that = is >a very different matter. I agree completely with the above statement. And, despite its ultimate = end result, I think the original SMOT kit offering fit into that, or at = least would have if it were a genuine offer... because that was a = project in which many people were actively engaged, it was = experimentally testable, had no secret ingredients, and the promise = (originally) was merely for a kit of like parts for replication. Bill asked specifically for comments about "commercial self-promotion". = That term could be interpreted simply, as in advertising; but I'd like = to address the "self-promotion" part of it. We have seen in the recent = past several cases where an individual has presented a product or an = idea, but either does not want to divulge how it is done, or does not = want to discuss its merits - it is merely presented to us as a wondrous = thing and we'd better really like it or we're a bunch of Big Science = flacks. Or there is some discussion, but we're answered with a lot of = obfuscation and evasiveness; and then there are the dubious claims of = originality and ideas stolen.=20 Part of the problem is in frequency -- a little bit from someone isn't = too bad, but when it goes on and on, it's obnoxious. In the case cited = by Bill, of Mr. Perreault: we get some elements mentioned above, in a = constant stream of posts, many of which are merely cross-posts from his = own mail list; and constant nebulous talk of a product and requests for = donations. This, I believe, constitutes comnmercial self-promotion. I = personally do not appreciate it. 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Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Physics Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:48:38 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38e6b00b.304064581@mail.midiowa.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA26501 Resent-Message-ID: <"FZbbT1.0.GU6.iKRuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Zack, On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:55:20 -0600 (CST), Zack Widup wrote: >As a radio amateur, I monitor the solar cycle and its effects on the earth >rather intensely, as we consider the ionosphere and its propagation our >"toy" to play with. Yup. :) But as Mr. Cagle says (and I've been saying for 30+ years, and wrote a small article on how it could affect Antarctica about 5 years ago), the current has to flow through the solid parts of the earth, not just the ionosphere. IMO, that current, and the associated resistance heating, is what's kept the Earth internally warm since it's formation -- not the conjectured radioactivity in Earth's core. Additionaly, changes in the sun's output will change the amount of heating. A very small change in solar output would make a big difference in surface temperatures and heat distribution. Since the late 1800's, the light (visible, IR, UV) output of the sun appears to have increased a few percent. Whether the solar wind density has increased in a like manner isn't known, but the speed of the solar wind has increased since we've been measuring it. IOW, we don't need CME's to cause the earth to get hotter, but they could act as triggers, since their interaction with the Earth's magnetic field is much stronger than the solar wind. Assuming that a pole shift (actually, a crust shift, IMO) is possible, it can only be caused via external forces, and those forces must be able to "twist" something within the Earth. Neither gravity or interplanetary electrostatic forces can produce the twist, as they're unipolar forces. However, a magnetic field is bipolar, and could produce the needed twist. >The way Cycle 23 has been going, we will not be experiencing this pole >change phenomenon this time. We'll have to wait another 12 years or so >for the catastrophe. Cycle 23 has been pretty much a disappointnemt, >nowhere near the fabled peak of Cycle 19 in the late 50's and not even up >to the peak of Cycle 22. I remember being on 10 meters AM in 1956 (maybe '57) and worked the world with a 6AQ5 transmitter (with 6AQ5 modulator) and a Heath AR3 receiver. Australia, South Africa, Russia and many, many more -- all with 15 watts. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 23:48:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA26630; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:48:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:48:29 -0800 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: the geodynamo Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 02:46:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"JjRRZ1.0.zV6.ALRuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nice site, and interesting that the time of a reversal is in the span of 1000 years. What do you suppose we'd notice besides variations in the auroral field and navigational difficulties? K. -----Original Message----- From: ralph muha [mailto:rmuha@minimal.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 7:15 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: the geodynamo (was re: New Physics - Free E-Stock!) >His notion that pole changes could be triggered by >immense telluric currents resulting from CME's is >quite interesting. Unfortunately, all attempts to speaking of pole changes... these folks have an interesting simulation (with some very nice color illustrations) of the earth's magnetic field, as generated by the rotation of the molten core... http://es.ucsc.edu/~glatz/geodynamo.html it includes the occasional pole reversal, which is not triggered by any external forces, rather, it is simply a consequence of the chaotic behavior of the system... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 23:55:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA27207; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:55:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:55:06 -0800 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: New Physics Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 02:52:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"SMP5f1.0.0f6.PRRuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This link usually has a nice auroral monitor... http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/uvi/LatestImage.htm that and SOHO makes a nice pair don't you think? K. -----Original Message----- From: Zack Widup [mailto:w9sz@prairienet.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 6:55 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: New Physics I was very interested in this material, as Radio Science is the field in which I did my graduate work in college. As a radio amateur, I monitor the solar cycle and its effects on the earth rather intensely, as we consider the ionosphere and its propagation our "toy" to play with. The way Cycle 23 has been going, we will not be experiencing this pole change phenomenon this time. We'll have to wait another 12 years or so for the catastrophe. Cycle 23 has been pretty much a disappointnemt, nowhere near the fabled peak of Cycle 19 in the late 50's and not even up to the peak of Cycle 22. The peak of Cycle 23 is predicted for August or September of this year, with SFI's (solar flux index) maybe hitting 230-240. Most of the flares so far have been of the "M" class. Zack (W9SZ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 00:12:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA31904; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:11:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:11:59 -0800 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: the geodynamo (was re: New Physics - Free E-Stock!) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:12:39 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38e7b848.306172773@mail.midiowa.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA31875 Resent-Message-ID: <"7v-3z2.0.Lo7.EhRuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ralph, On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:14:51 -0500, ralph muha wrote: >speaking of pole changes... > >these folks have an interesting simulation >(with some very nice color illustrations) >of the earth's magnetic field, as generated >by the rotation of the molten core... > >http://es.ucsc.edu/~glatz/geodynamo.html > >it includes the occasional pole reversal, which >is not triggered by any external forces, rather, >it is simply a consequence of the chaotic behavior >of the system... Yup, good site. Mostly good info, but unfortunately some of the info derived from the simulations don't match surface measurements. For example (from the above site): "In addition, paleomagnetic records show that the dipole polarity of the geomagnetic field has reversed many times in the past, the mean time between reversals being roughly 200,000 years with individual reversal events taking only a couple thousand years. " Two problems with that statement. First is the implication that a field reversal is always 180 degrees (or so). The sea floor magnetic data (Atlantic Ocean) shows magnetic orientations anywhere from 30 degree to 180 degree "reversals." The model seems to produce only 180 degree reversals. Second, there is direct evidence from surface rocks (massive lava flows in Oregon) that the magnetic field has rotated (compared to the surface) at a rate of 6 degrees per day for at least 10 days -- 60 degrees in 10 days. A bit faster than 1000 years. :) So, although the simulation is important, it shouldn't be considered the final word. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 00:36:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA06026; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:36:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:36:37 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: "Freenrg-L@Eskimo. Com" Subject: A little patent humor Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:25:07 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"P3_811.0.3U1.K2Suu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks, This is the actual wording of the patent abstract of a European patent. Read it carefully :-) Fred A procedure for energy extraction by energetic increase of the power components of accelerated rigid bodies is described. This rigid body, a mass, is power-accelerated as an energy breeder (1) in rotatable support between a constantly working prime mover (6) and a working machine, which in this special case a generator (7) shaft journal connected by the shaft journals, either time-delayed by the constantly working prime mover until reaching the necessary working power or by a main motor 912), via an intermittently working gearbox connection, by means of the sliding coupling shaft 913) and its gear wheel (14), to attain the work- accelerated power state which is many times the larger than that of the generator in the power-loaded state inside the same unit of time. All the foregoing is so that the intermittently used main motor is uncoupled by the sliding shaft and stopped, the constantly working prime mover, with whose energetic connection via the rotor shaft (5) which, connected with one of the shaft journals guarantees the maintenance of the many times higher accelerated power of the energy breeder in relation to the starting generator loading of the generator, for the purpose of electro-energetic power consumption inside this electro-energetic power consumption, by means of the accelerated mass of the energy breeder, by the smaller power resistance at the generator in relation to the accelerated power of the energy breeder and to the remaining larger acceleration of the energetic input power of the constantly working prime mover by the energy breeder. (I have absolutely no idea what this is all about) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 01:32:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14146; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:32:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:32:19 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001501bf9930$23302160$5ed666ce@default> References: <001501bf9930$23302160$5ed666ce@default> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:32:10 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"32Jxt3.0.xS3.ZsSuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:37 PM -0500 3/28/00, Chris O'Barr wrote: >I suggest you wait until the July conference...thing before you start >discussing the device. What's a "July conference...thing" have to do with this? Why wait for July when the issue was presented here just now in the context of commercial interest? I don't so much mind the commercial part as I do the secret part. This list is for openly sharing information about things which can be duplicated, experimented on, and verified. You can't do that with partial disclosures and secret ingredients specifically packaged to deny direct analysis or identification. I saw a commercial gizmo with a secret component being discussed here, then a request by the list owner for opinions. I stated mine. You're welcome to wait until July to discuss it if you want to. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 01:35:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14622; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:35:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:35:28 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A little patent humor Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:34:51 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA14539 Resent-Message-ID: <"TXpUy.0.Ja3.WvSuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:25:07 -0800, Fred Epps wrote: >Hi Folks, > >This is the actual wording of the patent abstract of a European patent. >Read it carefully :-) > >Fred [snip] They say a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case ten thousand ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 01:40:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16247; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:40:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:40:55 -0800 Message-ID: <011001bf9962$f84e77c0$7b9da0d1@pavilion> From: "Norm Silliman" To: Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:41:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ACOCm1.0.fz3.b-Suu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wednesday, March 22, 2000, William Beaty wrote >On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Rymel wrote: > >> i couldn't find a place to find TIN foil. otherwise i would've tried... > > >I found that tin can be bought from dental supply houses. I think my >spool was about $40US, for maybe a quarter pound of .003" (which I've >since given away to someone for another experiment! Rats!) I just ordered two pounds of tin foil from J B Dental Supply in southern California 800 333-7141 as a credit card purchase. They want $38 a pound plus $4-$5 shipping. Claim 10 days to 2 weeks delivery. For those still interested. Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 04:22:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA06391; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 04:22:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 04:22:45 -0800 Message-ID: <38E1F5AE.F80@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:23:10 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? References: <001501bf9930$23302160$5ed666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"abJ5G.0.mZ1.KMVuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > At 10:37 PM -0500 3/28/00, Chris O'Barr wrote: > > >I suggest you wait until the July conference...thing before you start > >discussing the device. > > What's a "July conference...thing" have to do with this? Why wait for > July when the issue was presented here just now in the context of > commercial interest? I don't so much mind the commercial part as I do > the secret part. This list is for openly sharing information about > things which can be duplicated, experimented on, and verified. You > can't do that with partial disclosures and secret ingredients > specifically packaged to deny direct analysis or identification. Why wait for July? Because that is where it can be publically demonstrated in front of my peers. Once it is know that the component is real then we can move on. The "ion valve" is one part of a bigger picture. The circuit that it functions in has been fully revealed. If I disclose the inner parts of the ion-valve then people will say that there is nothing new there because it is too simple... besides, I don't see anyone offering a big fat grant for me to continue my work. Until the day comes were I do not have to worry about funding then certain things must remain a trade-secret to raise funds. Is this too big of a constribution to ask from my peers? -Bruce A. Perreault <> -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 07:25:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30924; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:25:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:25:14 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:23:28 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: A little patent humor X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QGxFc1.0.-Y7.P1Yuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >[snip] >They say a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case ten thousand ;). > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk On a serious note though, isn't this a great example of how unhelpful patent docs can be when you're trying to visualise a machine with no pix to help you? James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 09:27:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08960; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:27:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:27:31 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: A little patent humor Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:16:08 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"ZYfKF3.0.vB2.ypZuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I hope you both realized that the line "(I have absolutely no idea what this is all about)" was actually PART OF THE ABSTRACT :-)) Fred > > >[snip] > >They say a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case ten > thousand ;). > > > >Regards, > > > >Robin van Spaandonk > > > On a serious note though, isn't this a great example of how > unhelpful patent docs can be when you're trying to visualise a > machine with no pix to help you? > > James O. Batchelor > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 09:58:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA17660; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:58:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:58:19 -0800 Message-ID: <005901bf99a8$7611d9a0$6b4461c3@piii450> From: "Zachary C. Fridman" To: References: <001501bf9930$23302160$5ed666ce@default> Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:58:59 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"jExYF2.0.rJ4.wGauu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Monteverde To: Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 12:32 PM Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? > > > At 10:37 PM -0500 3/28/00, Chris O'Barr wrote: > > >I suggest you wait until the July conference...thing before you start > >discussing the device. > > What's a "July conference...thing" have to do with this? Why wait for > July when the issue was presented here just now in the context of > commercial interest? I don't so much mind the commercial part as I do > the secret part. This list is for openly sharing information about > things which can be duplicated, experimented on, and verified. You > can't do that with partial disclosures and secret ingredients > specifically packaged to deny direct analysis or identification. > > I saw a commercial gizmo with a secret component being discussed > here, then a request by the list owner for opinions. > > I stated mine. > > You're welcome to wait until July to discuss it if you want to. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > I agree . Zachary C. Fridman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 10:04:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09800; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:03:48 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:03:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005301bf99a8$2add87e0$6b4461c3@piii450> From: "Zachary C. Fridman" To: References: Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:56:53 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"WTJ-p3.0.xO2.-Lauu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 12:56 AM Subject: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? > On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > I am now happy to announce that yesterday all testing > > was completed on my solid-state radiant energy valve > > design. I will be manufacturing about twenty or so of > > these to be sold for the first time at the upcoming > > July Conference. > > I'd like to hear comments from FREENRG-L users about commercial > self-promotion on this list. In the past it has not been a problem. > FREENRG-L users have no reason to advertize, except occasionally to > sell or trade lab equipment. > > Mr. Perrault's product is very different. He's essentially using > FREENRG-L as a channel for unpaid advertizing without asking our > permission. True, the rules don't specifically forbid this: > > 6. ...Occasional on-topic advertizing by regular freenrg-l users is > acceptable. Used equipment ads yes, get rich quick schemes no. > > The intention of #6 is to make FREENRG-L an advertizement-free zone, yet > to allow long-time users to conduct "garage sales" of their old tech-junk. > If somebody wishes to promote their business or sell its products, that is > a very different matter. > > My own leaning is to keep FREENRG-L as a hobbyists-only forum, and to > specifically forbid commercial self-promotion entirely. To eliminate all > possibility of misinterpretation, I'd require that even the "garage sale" > advertizers receive permission in advance. > > But first I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do FREENRG-L subscribers > wish to see this list used for commercial self-promotion? > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > No I dont like to see commercials in this list . Zachary C. Fridman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 10:30:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30291; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:30:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:30:19 -0800 Message-ID: <38E24AFA.A405A06E@astra.ukf.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:27:07 +0100 From: Gavin Dingley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A little patent humor References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_h53E.0.AP7.wkauu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred, did you make this up or is it a real patent. If it is real, could you post that patent number onto the list, it sounds a good read! Reagards, Gavin Fred Epps wrote: > Hi All, > > I hope you both realized that the line "(I have absolutely no idea what > this is all about)" was actually PART OF THE ABSTRACT :-)) > > Fred > > > > >[snip] > > >They say a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case ten > > thousand ;). > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >Robin van Spaandonk > > > > > > On a serious note though, isn't this a great example of how > > unhelpful patent docs can be when you're trying to visualise a > > machine with no pix to help you? > > > > James O. Batchelor > > > > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 10:41:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA17262; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:40:36 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:40:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38E24E2C.5ECC@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:40:44 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gavin Dingley CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: "RADIO IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> <38E1D7F0.86DD8@astra.ukf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0erLq2.0.ZD4.Wuauu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gavin Dingley wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > so let me see if I've got this right, the valve separates a plasma into ions and > electrons, so that the ions can be used to power a load? The valve separates negative ions and postitive ions, not electrons. I have a theory that if these ions are brought down below air ionization by a special type of transformer that the positive ions will leave the wire deficient of electrons, and the negative ions will manifest as excess electrons. This is only a theory at this point and has yet to be tested. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 10:57:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA21362; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:56:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:56:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: A little patent humor Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:45:12 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <38E24AFA.A405A06E@astra.ukf.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"JxNFt3.0.cD5.W7buu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Gavin, Oh, its real all right. You can access the pfd here: http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=DE19815581&CY=gb&LG=en&DB=EPD But it's in German... BTW, this is nothing unusual in terms of the technology. There are two whole patent classes full of these things. Go to http://gb.espacenet.com/ And click on the link that says "Worldwide - 30 million documents". Then in the IPC patent class line type in either: H02N11/00 -- patent class for perpetual motion machines (2393 patents) H02?53/00 -- patent class for rotary perpetual motion machines (862 patents). You will see more free energy patents than you can stand to read. I've been going systematically through them for about a year now. I've found some gems. There are also other patent classes that contain energy healing machines, radionics, and antigravity and electric propulsion. I've even found a time machine :-) As you can see the idea that "you can't patent a FE device" is a fallacy. Have fun :-) Fred If it is real, > could you post > that patent number onto the list, it sounds a good read! > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 11:07:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24140; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:06:47 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:06:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <019301bf99b1$771ccae0$09c22bd1@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: A little patent humor Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:03:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"sv57g.0.zu5._Gbuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >As you can see the idea that "you can't patent a FE device" is a fallacy. > > >Fred If you want to get a patent in Germany! scottb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 11:31:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA19125; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:31:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:31:08 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: A little patent humor Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:19:51 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <019301bf99b1$771ccae0$09c22bd1@skot.emeraldnet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"I-V_u.0.fg4.ydbuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Skot, There are World (WO) and European (EP) patents too. The US isn't the end of the unverse in terms of selling your device. Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: skot [mailto:skot@fastbid.cc] > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 11:03 AM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: A little patent humor > > > > >As you can see the idea that "you can't patent a FE device" > is a fallacy. > > > > > >Fred > > If you want to get a patent in Germany! > > scottb > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 11:59:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA29100; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:58:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:58:31 -0800 Message-ID: <01c001bf99b8$b74444c0$09c22bd1@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: A little patent humor Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:55:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"1odrt.0.I67.b1cuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14533 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, but there some distinct advantages of selling at home. I'm not very big on the concept myself ( for my own inventions anyway ). BTW how many of those patents your looking at are expired? ( The best thing about patents is that they expire in less than a lifetime. ) scottb -----Original Message----- From: Fred Epps To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 11:33 AM Subject: RE: A little patent humor >Hi Skot, > >There are World (WO) and European (EP) patents too. The US isn't the end of >the unverse in terms of selling your device. > >Fred > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: skot [mailto:skot@fastbid.cc] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 11:03 AM >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: A little patent humor >> >> >> >> >As you can see the idea that "you can't patent a FE device" >> is a fallacy. >> > >> > >> >Fred >> >> If you want to get a patent in Germany! >> >> scottb >> >> >> > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 12:31:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08034; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:31:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:31:11 -0800 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: A little patent humor Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:11:50 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <01c001bf99b8$b74444c0$09c22bd1@skot.emeraldnet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"Zsy8p2.0.Nz1.FWcuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14534 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Skot, > > Yes, but there some distinct advantages of selling at home. Sure.. > I'm not very big on the concept myself ( for my own > inventions anyway ). No, I don't believe in patenting myself. But there is a lot of interesting stuff in there. BTW how many of those patents your > looking at are expired? I don't know.. It's easy to set the search parameters so you can get the ones before 1970 for instance. Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 12:59:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19796; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:59:05 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:59:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38E26E9D.391B@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:59:09 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Device dependent on untested theory? References: <00dc01bf99bc$5cecfe00$cd1b1440@user> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vRvwt.0.0r4.Kwcuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14535 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Hicks wrote: > > Are you saying Bruce that in order for your cell to function in overunity > it will depend on the untested theory of the yet unbuilt ion transformer? Of course not. Secondly, the cell is not "over-unity." Even when it uses radioactive material it is not over-unity. The cell operates on a super density principle. The cell does not require the "radiant energy" circuit to function. What I have done is to combine the best energy concepts into one device. > > Or is this additional research? This is additional research... if we can transform the captured ions to a practical voltage then it may be possible to do away with the fuel cell altogether. Then we would have a circuit that draws energy only from the ions stored in the earth. ;-) > > What is your theory based on? Pre-glow discharge. > > Other experiments or a hunch? Another phenomenon that I experienced a few years back and is now begining to surface on the internet. > > Both of course are worth investigation. > > I had read about the early days of radio and there was a mention that ionics > might have been a path that could have been taken alternatively to > eletronics but that for various reasons electronics won out. It is > interesting that the electronics path has been retraced and the alternate > path is being explored. Interesting... do you remember the article? -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 13:42:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30316; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:41:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:41:03 -0800 Message-ID: <38E27885.6375@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:41:25 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: A Brand new Science called "IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) NOW (RADIO IONICS)] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"MdT3Q1.0.ZP7.kXduu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14536 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from lbmail12.listbot.com ([204.71.191.10]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA00546 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:15:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 22099 invoked by uid 108); 29 Mar 2000 21:15:04 -0000 Mailing-List: ListBot mailing list contact nuenergy-help@listbot.com Delivered-To: mailing list nuenergy@listbot.com Reply-To: "Nu Energy Horizons" Received: (qmail 1980 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2000 21:15:13 -0000 Received: from matrix.webzone.net (205.219.23.25) by lb1.listbot.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2000 21:15:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 18075 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2000 15:13:53 -0600 Received: from webzone.net (pm3-okc-1.ppp58.webzone.net [208.165.96.58]) by matrix.webzone.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2000 15:13:53 -0600 Message-ID: <38E27256.5ECD2694@webzone.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:15:02 -0600 From: sam X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons Subject: Re: A Brand new Science called "IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) NOW (RADIO IONICS) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> <38E11970.C2F1DB93@globalcrossing.com> <38E1416D.2D67@cyberportal.net> <38E216C6.1D071AA3@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org I believe that I understand IONIC transfer (negatively charged ions) as ANY carrier that has an extra charge, namely the electron being carried OUTSIDE the wire. In this case it is oxygen. Oxygen carrying an electron or two. This changes the valence from 6, to 7 or 8, depending on the spin and charge displacement. In a shared diatomic relation. This makes two oxygen atoms combine to share the two electrons from the normal 6. With the extra electron(s), this makes the shells to complete themselves, but the extra electrons are above normal valence and hence will share with yet another oxygen atom. 03. This can combine with hydrogen to make water, monatomic oxygen for a short period of time (recombining into non active oxygen or 02) then yielding electricity. The exchange of electrons from one oxygen to another oxygen molecule or atom, in a hand-off oscillatory fashion or like a marching army of electron/hole flow ON the carrying element oxygen, means that an established "rate" of exchange is occurring. I believe this is where the 190nm wavelength comes in to play. Such a high rate of oscillation or rate of transfer would have to be a very short wavelength, so we would have the 1578 terahertz frequency. To carry this current ionically means to transfer electrons OUTSIDE the wire. This changes everything about inductance and capacitance in the circuitry (relating to ionics). Capacitance then becomes the real key element in electron transfer. We are surrounded at all times by ions. We are bathed in a sea of ions at all times. Bruce has found a way to increase the action of ionic generation and can also use that primer to tap the rest of the sea of energy. IONS both negative and positive do not travel down a wire. Mostly the negative electrons are rushed down the wire to to positive charged electrode. Remember, we are drawing in electrons, which means we want the negative charges in the earth and air. The trick is to catch the difference of potential in the earth/air relationship. The only time conventional ohmic law applies is when you have electrons traveling INSIDE the wire. In the wire, electron mean velocity is about 1 cm per second. In the air, IONIC electron transfer is much faster. This changes the whole picture on electrodynamics in a closed circuit. In this case we are no longer dealing with a closed circuit. I believe this is correct, however if someone has more information on this, please do not hesitate to correct me here. -sam Martin wrote: Separate ways? I thought we were talking about them going alternately down the same wire. Martin. ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy-unsubscribe@listbot.com ______________________________________________________________________ Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 13:43:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30702; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:42:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:42:29 -0800 Message-ID: <38E278D3.24F8@cyberportal.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:42:43 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: "RADIO IONICS"] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"xHd7v3.0.dV7.4Zduu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14537 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from lbmail5.listbot.com ([204.71.191.17]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA04929 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:31:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 22475 invoked by uid 0); 29 Mar 2000 21:38:26 -0000 Mailing-List: ListBot mailing list contact nuenergy-help@listbot.com Delivered-To: mailing list nuenergy@listbot.com Reply-To: "Nu Energy Horizons" Received: (qmail 9204 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2000 21:32:16 -0000 Received: from matrix.webzone.net (205.219.23.25) by lb5.listbot.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2000 21:32:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 20214 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2000 15:31:21 -0600 Received: from webzone.net (pm3-okc-1.ppp58.webzone.net [208.165.96.58]) by matrix.webzone.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2000 15:31:21 -0600 Message-ID: <38E2766F.9EB3EA86@webzone.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:32:31 -0600 From: sam X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons Subject: Re: "RADIO IONICS" References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> <38E11970.C2F1DB93@globalcrossing.com> <38E1416D.2D67@cyberportal.net> <38E216C6.1D071AA3@globalcrossing.com> <38E238DC.12A3@cyberportal.net> <38E24406. BF30BCB2@globalcrossing.com> <38E24F3D.1093@cyberportal.net> <38E26A93.84176C96@globalcrossing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org An IONIC transformer would be more of a capacitance with anode and cathode as part of the internal makeup. The wire would not be wrapped in the conventional way, if at all. I would venture to say the the wires in such a transformer would be separated by a capacitive chamber, much like a magnetron is designed, carrying the ionic charges around the pathway in a fashion such that the electrons are stripped off the carrier oxygen (ozone) with an electron output on one side, and the ionic oxygen as the input. You would have an airflow on one half and an electron flow on the other half of the transformer, in a resonant or in-sync fashion. That is the way I envision an ionic transformer. -sam ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy-unsubscribe@listbot.com ______________________________________________________________________ Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 15:41:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03877; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:41:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:41:20 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A little patent humor Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:40:47 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <1155es0nd1msplkuutn8t4q4mltc371fu7@4ax.com> References: <38E24AFA.A405A06E@astra.ukf.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA03818 Resent-Message-ID: <"1fz9i2.0.Oy.VIfuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14538 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:45:12 -0800, Fred Epps wrote: >Hi Gavin, > >Oh, its real all right. You can access the pfd here: > >http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=DE19815581&CY=gb&LG=en&DB=EPD > >But it's in German... > [snip] The comment at the end of the abstract appears to have been from the translator, as it doesn't appear in the German. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 15:48:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07133; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:47:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:47:34 -0800 Message-ID: <38E2960D.BF742B53@microtec.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:47:25 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A little patent humor References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------989CBF8C0B77336796363B84" Resent-Message-ID: <"rdz9T1.0.Gl1.LOfuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14539 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------989CBF8C0B77336796363B84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please oh please.... give me the patent reference for the time machine and electric propulsion antigravity along with those free energy "gems" patents. thanks. Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Gavin, > > Oh, its real all right. You can access the pfd here: > > http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=DE19815581&CY=gb&LG=en&DB=EPD > > But it's in German... > > BTW, this is nothing unusual in terms of the technology. There are two > whole patent classes full of these things. Go to http://gb.espacenet.com/ > And click on the link that says "Worldwide - 30 million documents". Then in > the IPC patent class line type in either: > > H02N11/00 -- patent class for perpetual motion machines (2393 patents) > H02?53/00 -- patent class for rotary perpetual motion machines (862 > patents). > > You will see more free energy patents than you can stand to read. I've been > going systematically through them for about a year now. I've found some > gems. > There are also other patent classes that contain energy healing machines, > radionics, and antigravity and electric propulsion. I've even found a time > machine :-) > As you can see the idea that "you can't patent a FE device" is a fallacy. > > Have fun :-) > > Fred > > If it is real, > > could you post > > that patent number onto the list, it sounds a good read! > > --------------989CBF8C0B77336796363B84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please oh please....
give me the patent reference for the time machine and electric propulsion antigravity along with those free energy "gems" patents.

thanks.

Fred Epps wrote:

Hi Gavin,

Oh, its real all right. You can access the pfd  here:

http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=DE19815581&CY=gb&LG=en&DB=EPD

But it's in German...

BTW, this is nothing unusual in terms of the technology.  There are two
whole patent classes full of these things. Go to http://gb.espacenet.com/
And click on the link that says "Worldwide - 30 million documents". Then in
the IPC patent class line type in either:

H02N11/00 -- patent class for perpetual motion machines (2393 patents)
H02?53/00  -- patent class for rotary perpetual motion machines (862
patents).

You will see more free energy patents than you can stand to read. I've been
going systematically through them for about a year now. I've found some
gems.
There are also other patent classes that contain energy healing machines,
radionics, and antigravity and electric propulsion. I've even found a time
machine :-)
As you can see the idea that "you can't patent a FE device" is a fallacy.

 Have fun :-)

Fred

 If it is real,
> could you post
> that patent number onto the list, it sounds a good read!
>

--------------989CBF8C0B77336796363B84-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 15:58:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA28488; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:41 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <007801bf99da$881597e0$a8b57ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:56:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"RWS1x3.0.1z6.pXfuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14540 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Norm Silliman To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 1:32 AM Subject: Re: "Gravity capacitor" WORKS???? > >I just ordered two pounds of tin foil from J B Dental Supply in southern >California 800 333-7141 as a credit card purchase. They want $38 >a pound plus $4-$5 shipping. Claim 10 days to 2 weeks delivery. >For those still interested. Thanks for the info! What percentage of tin is in the foil? I am waiting to hear more about the design the "S" experimenter used for his working unit. 1) Did he make slots in the ring? Sizes used? If so, were the slots lined up one on top another? Or, did they spiral from one end of the capacitor to the other? 2) Were the ring diameters all the same? Sizes used? 3) Wax paper used? Sizes? 4) Where are the scanned drawings? The video and drawings would help a lot :-) Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 16:46:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28379; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:46:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:46:03 -0800 Message-ID: <004e01bf99e3$637c9c40$b87156c3@avd> From: "Aris" To: References: <20000313215253.43550.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Why not me???? Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 02:17:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"-bTX_1.0.Jx6.AFguu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14541 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i got it btw are you family of chuck?? ----- Original Message ----- From: timothy richardson To: ; Cc: ; Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:52 PM Subject: Why not me???? > > > I seem to be having problems posting to the ring, have tryed several times > to post, its never there. If anyone sees this, please respond so i know its > working!!!! thanks a Gig. > > Tim Richardson > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 17:37:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11987; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:37:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:37:10 -0800 Message-ID: <005d01bf99e7$b12a55a0$159910cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: Subject: Re: A little patent humor Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:31:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kbmmm1.0.7x2.5_guu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14542 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is there a way to search for patents on the Web that exist prior to 1970? And does this only include the abstracts, or the full patent? > > I don't know.. > It's easy to set the search parameters so you can get the ones before 1970 > for instance. > > Fred > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 18:53:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04560; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:53:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:53:28 -0800 Message-ID: <20000330025252.31476.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.111] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Why not me???? Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:52:52 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"2zsIY1.0.671.c6iuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14543 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks. Already got it figured out. BTW, I have a cousin named Chuck. I would have sent this directly to you but you didn't give me your email address. Write to me at richardsontim@hotmail.com and send me your email too, so we don't have to post over the list on this. Thanks!! TR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 04:43:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA26858; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:42:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:42:41 -0800 Message-Id: <200003301242.EAA07549@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:42:02 -0800 Subject: Gravity Capacitor From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZsKUG3.0.UZ6.0lquu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14544 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have seen demonstrations of these T. T. Brown kinds of devices. The story is that they always move in the direction of the positive plate whether that plate is pointing up or down. That never really made sense to me. But I did find a 90KVDC, solid-state Tesla coil (ie voltage-multiplier) in an old surplus store. It had a long black pipe with the multiplier in it and a door knob on the top for the antenna. When you turned it on, you could instantly feel yourself being pushed away from it. At first I mistook this as self-preservation rearing it's ugly head, but I found that my friends had the same effect. I'm sure this is the electrostatic repulsion you were talking about, but I'm not sure why that would be bad. If you could create a large negative static charge, wouldn't it naturally repel the negative field of the Earth? When that DC charged me up (and remember I am organic), I could really feel myself being pushed away. At the same time, I always wondered if I hadn't just become the dielectric of a capacitor. The front of me facing the Tesla coil was one polarity, and the back of me, the other. Maybe there's something non-symmetrical about organic dielectrics? In any case, I'm proud to say that except for a little anxiety about being that close to 90KVDC, I never felt any ill effects. I have been experimenting with a small toy gyro that seems to build a large (2.5 kV) static charge when spinning. I am now experimenting with using the centrifugal force of a spinning disk to cause the heavier particles to drift to the outside while forcing the lighter ones to the center. The idea is that since the electrons are so much lighter, they may actually concentrate in the center of the disk with the nucleons around the outside (you said this list was for fringe science right?). The encyclopedia tells me that nucleons constitute 99.9% of the weight of an atom, but only 10E-14 percent of the actual volume. The electron is 0.0005 times lighter, but they don't give any specifics on volume. If anyone knows the volume of an electron in relation to the nucleons (or even why that's a dumb question), please let me know. I'm thinking you might be able to tune the surface area in such a way as to make the negative part cover a larger area and therefore repel more than the positive part. Great discussion. I hope my comments were useful (or at least entertaining), ...Scott From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 04:54:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA28710; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:53:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:53:53 -0800 Message-Id: <200003301253.EAA22487@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:53:41 -0800 Subject: Magnetism = LI? From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NYltX3.0.V07.Wvquu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14545 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I read a message a while back about how the free energy guys talk a lot but never actually prove anything. I have seen Joseph Newman give his demo a couple of times. I always had a bad feeling about Joe and his business practices, but there was something about his motor that kept me at it. In any case, I have wound many coils now using 30 guage magnet wire. The smallest was about 4 lbs and the largest is well over 60. The EE's at my company told me that I would never be able to produce any magnetism with a large coil because of all the leakage that would occur. Nevertheless, I continued, using information from Tesla patent concerning winding large coils with multiple conductors in parallel, and then wire them together in series. I believe I have a 60 lb coil that will spin the same rotor as 4 lb coil using much less power. The torque on the large motor seems to be greater as well. I'm wondering if anyone has ever done any definitive experiments to prove that large coils can actually work and produce more magnetism than small ones. I know there are some limitations. For example, my very large coil starts to leak at about 300 Hz, so high RPM applications seem to be out. But I still think it's cool to be able to extract magnetism from nothing but copper wire. ...Z From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 04:54:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA29037; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:54:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:54:28 -0800 Message-ID: <38E34C72.182BDD01@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:45:38 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A little patent humor References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c3-qW1.0.c57.4wquu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14546 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Time machine? I can't resist... spill. Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Gavin, > > Oh, its real all right. You can access the pfd here: > > http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=DE19815581&CY=gb&LG=en&DB=EPD > > But it's in German... > > BTW, this is nothing unusual in terms of the technology. There are two > whole patent classes full of these things. Go to http://gb.espacenet.com/ > And click on the link that says "Worldwide - 30 million documents". Then in > the IPC patent class line type in either: > > H02N11/00 -- patent class for perpetual motion machines (2393 patents) > H02?53/00 -- patent class for rotary perpetual motion machines (862 > patents). > > You will see more free energy patents than you can stand to read. I've been > going systematically through them for about a year now. I've found some > gems. > There are also other patent classes that contain energy healing machines, > radionics, and antigravity and electric propulsion. I've even found a time > machine :-) > As you can see the idea that "you can't patent a FE device" is a fallacy. > > Have fun :-) > > Fred > > If it is real, > > could you post > > that patent number onto the list, it sounds a good read! > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 05:20:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02390; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:20:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:20:10 -0800 Message-ID: <015601bf9a4c$bf10bb40$347156c3@avd> From: "Aris" To: Subject: RCEC Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 15:34:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0153_01BF9A5D.69756300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"n-p_M1.0.7b.AIruu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14547 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0153_01BF9A5D.69756300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Research, Co-operation, Engenering & Competition ------=_NextPart_000_0153_01BF9A5D.69756300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Research, Co-operation, Engenering = &=20 Competition
------=_NextPart_000_0153_01BF9A5D.69756300-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 05:47:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07603; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:46:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:46:49 -0800 Message-ID: <38E35AD9.32EF@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:47:05 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: patrick tremblay CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: "RADIO IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> <38E1D7F0.86DD8@astra.ukf.net> <38E24E2C.5ECC@cyberportal.net> <38E29581.CD60DBD4@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u9EX_3.0.ds1.9hruu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14548 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: patrick tremblay wrote: > > Are you saying that the atmosphere is swirming with charged ions awaiting > to be tapped by an electromagnetic device in order to neutralize them > while producing electricity? Yes... however, it is the earth ground that contains an enormous reserve of negative ions. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 05:51:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA08616; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:51:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:51:02 -0800 Message-ID: <38E35BD8.3778@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:51:20 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Reverse engineer the Testatika from Ionics perspective References: <004e01bf99d6$440088c0$cd1b1440@user> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OBZKW1.0.W62.5lruu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14549 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Hicks wrote: > > The Testatika is one of the best free energy /overunity/ devices known. > Many people, including scientists have seen it working in practical > demonstrations hooked up to heating and lighting devices. > > And yet it does not make sense to people who are looking at it through the > electronic paradigm and that's where people must be getting thrown. > > >From what I have read about the Testatika in fact where I first heard about > it in 1990 was from a book called "The secret of the Creative Vacuum" by > John Davidson on page 232: "In fact, the Whimshurst generator strips the > electrons off air molecules. The resulting positive air ions are collected > into one Leyden jar, while the negative electrons are trapped in the other." > > But that's the electronics viewpoint > > Perhaps the Testika is a working overunity Ionic device, not electronic. > > What if, according to Bruce's theory, ions are being brought down below air > ionization by the testatika? Positive ions leave the embedded wires on > the disks and the negative ions manifest as excess electrons. Perhaps the > function of the Wimshurst portion of the Testatika is to remove the positive > ions from the network of wires located embedded in the counterrotating disks. > Remaining negative ions would show up as excess electrons. > > The storage jars would be part of the transformation/flow process. > > From the photographs I have seen of it the tiny network of wires in each > disk could, if positve ions were leaving them be highly efficient way of > creating negative Ionic flow. > > There are two ways that it might be working that come to mind and of course > possiblly many more. I hope everyone who has different idea will share > their thoughts on this. Here's mine: > > 1. Ions are being attracted by the counterrotating of the the Wimhurst disks > and postive and negative ions being separated and stored in separate jars > the negative ions showing up as electron flow. > > Or > > 2. The positive ions are being repelled from the Wimhurst disks and both > jars hold nagative Ions. > > One footnote here: I remember years ago I knew people who were into the > "natural" lifestyle. They told me that they did not own any plastic items > because they told me that plastic gives off negative ions and has a > depressing emotional effect on people. > > Now what I wonder: First of all, it is true? Secondly if it is true then > might the perspex, plastic disks of the Testika be used as a maganet might > be in a generator? Used to create a flow of negative Ions. > > Perhaps it might be possible to reverse engineer the Testatika from this new > Ionic perspective? > > What do you think? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 07:48:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09750; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:48:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:48:04 -0800 Message-ID: <38E37735.458@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:48:05 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Radio Ionics References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> <38E11970.C2F1DB93@globalcrossing.com> <38E1416D.2D67@cyberportal.net> <38E216C6.1D071AA3@globalcrossing.com> <38E238DC.12A3@cyberportal.net> <38E24406. BF30BCB2@globalcrossing.com> <38E24F3D.1093@cyberportal.net> <38E26A93.84176C96@globalcrossing.com> <38E2766F.9EB3EA86@webzone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dMRZY3.0.FO2.qStuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14550 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sam wrote: > > An IONIC transformer would be more of a capacitance with anode and > cathode as part of the internal makeup. The wire would not be wrapped in > the conventional way, if at all. I would venture to say the the wires > in such a transformer would be separated by a capacitive chamber, much > like a magnetron is designed, carrying the ionic charges around the > pathway in a fashion such that the electrons are stripped off the > carrier oxygen (ozone) with an electron output on one side, and the > ionic oxygen as the input. You would have an airflow on one half and an > electron flow on the other half of the transformer, in a resonant or > in-sync fashion. That is the way I envision an ionic transformer. > -sam Yes... capacitance does play a big role in this. "It is now estimated, because of present advances in present dielectrics that a 100 lb. unit can be made to deliver 300 KW. gross weight, not net weight." Speech Given By T. Moray Jan. 23, 1962... p. 11 -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 07:59:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA14032; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:59:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:59:25 -0800 Message-ID: <38E379DD.43F1@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:59:25 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Radio Ionics (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> <38E11970.C2F1DB93@globalcrossing.com> <38E1416D.2D67@cyberportal.net> <38E216C6.1D071AA3@globalcrossing.com> <38E27256.5ECD2694@webzone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vCue_3.0.4R3.Rdtuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14551 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: SAM, Thank you for this more in depth explanation. This was well thought out by you. I am really not a numbers and figures researcher. Your feedback here is priceless. Warm Regards, Bruce A. Perreault sam wrote: > > I believe that I understand IONIC transfer (negatively charged ions) as > ANY carrier that has an extra charge, namely the electron being carried > OUTSIDE the wire. In this case it is oxygen. Oxygen carrying an > electron or two. This changes the valence from 6, to 7 or 8, depending > on the spin and charge displacement. In a shared diatomic relation. > This makes two oxygen atoms combine to share the two electrons from the > normal 6. With the extra electron(s), this makes the shells to complete > themselves, but the extra electrons are above normal valence and hence > will share with yet another oxygen atom. 03. This can combine with > hydrogen to make water, monatomic oxygen for a short period of time > (recombining into non active oxygen or 02) then yielding electricity. > > The exchange of electrons from one oxygen to another oxygen molecule > or atom, in a hand-off oscillatory fashion or like a marching army of > electron/hole flow ON the carrying element oxygen, means that an > established "rate" of exchange is occurring. I believe this is where > the 190nm wavelength comes in to play. Such a high rate of oscillation > or rate of transfer would have to be a very short wavelength, so we > would have the 1578 terahertz frequency. > > To carry this current ionically means to transfer electrons OUTSIDE the > wire. This changes everything about inductance and capacitance in the > circuitry (relating to ionics). Capacitance then becomes the real key > element in electron transfer. We are surrounded at all times by ions. > We are bathed in a sea of ions at all times. Bruce has found a way to > increase the action of ionic generation and can also use that primer to > tap the rest of the sea of energy. > > IONS both negative and positive do not travel down a wire. Mostly the > negative electrons are rushed down the wire to to positive charged > electrode. Remember, we are drawing in electrons, which means we want > the negative charges in the earth and air. The trick is to catch the > difference of potential in the earth/air relationship. The only time > conventional ohmic law applies is when you have electrons traveling > INSIDE the wire. In the wire, electron mean velocity is about 1 cm per > second. In the air, IONIC electron transfer is much faster. This > changes the whole picture on electrodynamics in a closed circuit. In > this case we are no longer dealing with a closed circuit. > > I believe this is correct, however if someone has more information on > this, please do not hesitate to correct me here. > -sam From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 08:29:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA23970; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:28:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:28:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:28:25 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <20000329004312.32603.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"poKfA3.0.Ns5.n2uuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14552 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Now, regarding your recent post about old tech-junk ads - I have some extra > equipment which I would like to advertise. An oscilloscope, some HV > transformers and caps. Is this permissible? Yep! That's what the current rule is for. The big issue is the opportunity for abuse. If someone is in the free-energy device business, and wants to use FREENRG-L as a "focused marketer's list" for distrubuting advertizements and drumming up business, that's very different. This forum is NOT supposed to be a channel for selling products, even on-topic products. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:03:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA23824; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:03:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:03:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38E388F8.DAD1E357@info2000.net> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:03:52 -0700 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor References: <200003301242.EAA07549@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zHZTa.0.3q5.FZuuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14553 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, How about calling your spinning disk a 'homopolar generator'? Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:18:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA11264; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:18:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:18:20 -0800 Message-Id: <200003301725.e2UHPk427969@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:20:30 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: "RADIO IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <38E35AD9.32EF@cyberportal.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Resent-Message-ID: <"-FjL03.0.pl2.Rnuuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14554 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > patrick tremblay wrote: > > > > Are you saying that the atmosphere is swirming with charged ions awaiting to > > be tapped by an electromagnetic device in order to neutralize them while > > producing electricity? > > > Yes... however, it is the earth ground that contains an enormous reserve > of negative ions. > > -Bruce A. Perreault > In the Lightning theory found at : http://www.members.tripod.com/LYNN_MILLS/index-2.html "Ninety percent of cloud to ground strikes are negative cloud to positive ground. Just as it should be if condensing water frees electrons." Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br ------------------------------------------- Get paid to surf the WEB ! Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 ------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:30:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA28210; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:30:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:30:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005001bf9a6d$2e17fce0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:27:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"qN43r1.0.eu6.dyuuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14555 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Perhaps the polarity may be opposite if the electrons flow outward because they are more mobile. We tend to think of electrons as not being affected by gravity. For example, voltage doesn't drop when a wire goes up a tall building. But if the return conductor was affected equally by gravity then there would be no measurable voltage differance at the top. 98v -2v | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 100v 0v 100 VDC supply Cool concept. The only way to measure it would be a spinning disk with a sliding contacts. It would be hard to tell for sure though. Whether it was overunity or not you couldn't say for sure if the current was generated by centrifugal force or by the static from the sliding contacts. Definately worth testing though, in case it is overunity. Scott Becker -----Original Message----- From: Scott Zimmerman To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, March 30, 2000 4:43 AM Subject: Gravity Capacitor > .... I am now experimenting with using the >centrifugal force of a spinning disk to cause >the heavier particles to drift to the outside > while forcing the lighter ones to the center. > >...Scott > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:40:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18468; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:39:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:39:47 -0800 Message-ID: <006401bf9a6e$86dbe020$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:36:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"spHnS1.0.TW4.Y5vuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14556 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It would be a "homopolar generator", aka "makes dc without a commutator" but very different if it can work without any magnet. scottb -----Original Message----- From: Ted To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, March 30, 2000 9:06 AM Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor >Scott, > >How about calling your spinning disk a 'homopolar generator'? > >Ted > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 10:10:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28283; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:10:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:10:22 -0800 Message-ID: <022b01bf9a73$26de90a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Tests show overunity Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:58:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"5NEvo.0.qv6.DYvuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14557 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch This is the last message we have had from you. How did you get on? ...If you're still there?!? Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: 14 Mach 2000 >See Attached drawing. Do not try this at home, you may experience overunity. >Butch > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 10:41:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07625; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:40:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:40:56 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <9b.32d1b6e.2614f98f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:40:15 EST Subject: Re:To David:Tests show overunity To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Resent-Message-ID: <"oJi2v3.0.2t1.t-vuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14558 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/30/00 12:13:21 PM Central Standard Time, DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk writes: Butch This is the last message we have had from you. How did you get on? ...If you're still there?!? Best regards, David Callaghan >David, I want to have a self runner before I make another statement. Regards, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 10:42:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA11065; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:41:36 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:41:36 -0800 (PST) From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: Subject: Source for Flexible PCB's? Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:47:08 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00033013485600.00843@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id KAA10997 Resent-Message-ID: <"U3gVB1.0.mi2.U_vuu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14559 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anybody have a source for flexible printed circuit board stock? I've seen some in the last few months, but don't know where. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 11:43:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA29947; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:43:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:43:19 -0800 Message-ID: <20000330194237.26785.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.25] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:42:37 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"aInxt.0.iJ7.Lvwuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14560 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott wrote, If anyone knows the volume of an electron in >relation to the nucleons (or even why that's a dumb question), please let >me know. Scott, think of the nucleus of an atom as being the size of an orange. If proportions to an actual atom are held, the electrons would be submicroscopic and orbiting several miles away. Hope that helps. As far as actual mass (numbers, I mean) I'll have to get back to you, don't know it off the top of my head. TR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 11:44:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30206; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:44:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:44:37 -0800 Message-ID: <20000330194402.90086.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.25] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:44:02 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"USj9t.0.nN7.awwuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, most of the "volume" of an atom is empty space. Forgot to put that on last post. TR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 13:03:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23138; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:03:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:03:11 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:00:06 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200003302100.QAA22235@world.std.com> To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Reverse engineer the Testatika from Ionics perspective Resent-Message-ID: <"M4hax3.0.Jf5.C4yuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14562 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is quite interesting, in that the actual few writings from Methernita (the community who build the Testatika generator) say that one of the discs represents the clouds and the other disc represents the earth. And they write this up as if they mean this literally. I've been assuming they are referring to the charge gathering mechanisms for the formation of lightning. And that they've gone to a fuller understanding of the whole lightning process. They do state that the operation of Testatika confounds the traditionally trained engineer and scientist - yet, it is based on sound prinicples from their point of view. And, apparently the Testatika is the only truly documented working over-unity machine in existence today, where the creators are still around and still at it. Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 13:21:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29183; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:21:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:21:30 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200003302100.QAA22235@world.std.com> References: <200003302100.QAA22235@world.std.com> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:21:08 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Reverse engineer the Testatika from Ionics perspective Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"pBeKd.0.u77.PLyuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14563 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim - At 4:00 PM -0500 3/30/00, Jim Uban wrote: >Testatika is the only truly documented working >over-unity machine There is no documentation! There's just some people who *say* it works, but won't release any details because "the world isn't ready for it" etc... - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 13:25:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30508; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:24:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:24:56 -0800 Message-ID: <38E3C631.6775@cyberportal.net> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:25:05 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: New Radio Ionics Webpage (for research purposes only) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BCDq5.0.WS7.dOyuu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14564 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.nuenergy.org/ionics.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 15:21:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA20546; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 15:20:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 15:20:45 -0800 Message-ID: <38E3D740.EE762F9B@microtec.net> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:37:53 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Reverse engineer the Testatika from Ionics perspective References: <200003302100.QAA22235@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r4V2-3.0.v05.C5-uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14565 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: maybe we could make a solid state version of the testatika....the wishurt machine is apparently used only for high voltages...... Jim Uban wrote: > This is quite interesting, in that the actual few > writings from Methernita (the community who build > the Testatika generator) say that one of the discs > represents the clouds and the other disc represents > the earth. And they write this up as if they mean > this literally. I've been assuming they are referring > to the charge gathering mechanisms for the formation > of lightning. And that they've gone to a fuller > understanding of the whole lightning process. > They do state that the operation of Testatika > confounds the traditionally trained engineer and > scientist - yet, it is based on sound prinicples > from their point of view. And, apparently the > Testatika is the only truly documented working > over-unity machine in existence today, where > the creators are still around and still at it. > > Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 16:54:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA21030; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:54:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:54:12 -0800 Message-ID: <001301bf9aab$4b0272c0$89d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000313215253.43550.qmail@hotmail.com> <004e01bf99e3$637c9c40$b87156c3@avd> Subject: Re: Why not me???? Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:51:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"WjTmi3.0.V85.pS_uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14566 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I see you. ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Aris To: Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Why not me???? > i got it > > btw are you family of chuck?? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: timothy richardson > To: ; > Cc: ; > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:52 PM > Subject: Why not me???? > > > > > > > > I seem to be having problems posting to the ring, have tryed several times > > to post, its never there. If anyone sees this, please respond so i know > its > > working!!!! thanks a Gig. > > > > Tim Richardson > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 17:10:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25432; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:10:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:10:20 -0800 Message-ID: <002901bf9aad$8aad5be0$89d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <200003301242.EAA07549@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:07:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"PNWyk2.0.HD6.wh_uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14567 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How many RPM would this disk be turning? I ask because when you get down to atomic and subatomic particles, things behave differently. How much would inertia affect the electrons (since centrifugal force is the denial of inertia, not a force in itself)? Do they (us feeble minded humans) even know for sure what the mass of an electron is? ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Zimmerman To: Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 7:42 AM Subject: Gravity Capacitor > I have seen demonstrations of these T. T. Brown kinds of devices. The story > is that they always move in the direction of the positive plate whether that > plate is pointing up or down. That never really made sense to me. But I > did find a 90KVDC, solid-state Tesla coil (ie voltage-multiplier) in an old > surplus store. It had a long black pipe with the multiplier in it and a > door knob on the top for the antenna. When you turned it on, you could > instantly feel yourself being pushed away from it. At first I mistook this > as self-preservation rearing it's ugly head, but I found that my friends had > the same effect. I'm sure this is the electrostatic repulsion you were > talking about, but I'm not sure why that would be bad. If you could create > a large negative static charge, wouldn't it naturally repel the negative > field of the Earth? When that DC charged me up (and remember I am organic), > I could really feel myself being pushed away. At the same time, I always > wondered if I hadn't just become the dielectric of a capacitor. The front > of me facing the Tesla coil was one polarity, and the back of me, the other. > Maybe there's something non-symmetrical about organic dielectrics? In any > case, I'm proud to say that except for a little anxiety about being that > close to 90KVDC, I never felt any ill effects. > > I have been experimenting with a small toy gyro that seems to build a large > (2.5 kV) static charge when spinning. I am now experimenting with using the > centrifugal force of a spinning disk to cause the heavier particles to drift > to the outside while forcing the lighter ones to the center. The idea is > that since the electrons are so much lighter, they may actually concentrate > in the center of the disk with the nucleons around the outside (you said > this list was for fringe science right?). The encyclopedia tells me that > nucleons constitute 99.9% of the weight of an atom, but only 10E-14 percent > of the actual volume. The electron is 0.0005 times lighter, but they don't > give any specifics on volume. If anyone knows the volume of an electron in > relation to the nucleons (or even why that's a dumb question), please let me > know. I'm thinking you might be able to tune the surface area in such a way > as to make the negative part cover a larger area and therefore repel more > than the positive part. > > Great discussion. I hope my comments were useful (or at least > entertaining), > > > ...Scott > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 17:12:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26062; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:12:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:12:18 -0800 Message-ID: <002f01bf9aad$d2156360$89d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <200003301253.EAA22487@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:09:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"i3Tfh2.0.2N6.nj_uu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14568 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How much did all that wire cost you? ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Zimmerman To: Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 7:53 AM Subject: Magnetism = LI? > I read a message a while back about how the free energy guys talk a lot but > never actually prove anything. I have seen Joseph Newman give his demo a > couple of times. I always had a bad feeling about Joe and his business > practices, but there was something about his motor that kept me at it. In > any case, I have wound many coils now using 30 guage magnet wire. The > smallest was about 4 lbs and the largest is well over 60. The EE's at my > company told me that I would never be able to produce any magnetism with a > large coil because of all the leakage that would occur. Nevertheless, I > continued, using information from Tesla patent concerning winding large > coils with multiple conductors in parallel, and then wire them together in > series. I believe I have a 60 lb coil that will spin the same rotor as 4 lb > coil using much less power. The torque on the large motor seems to be > greater as well. > > I'm wondering if anyone has ever done any definitive experiments to prove > that large coils can actually work and produce more magnetism than small > ones. I know there are some limitations. For example, my very large coil > starts to leak at about 300 Hz, so high RPM applications seem to be out. > But I still think it's cool to be able to extract magnetism from nothing but > copper wire. > > > ...Z > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 17:40:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA13656; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:38:55 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:38:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <008701bf9ab1$84abbe40$89d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Aluminum Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:36:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF9A87.9B2DDD80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"_kHh22.0.7L3.e60vu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14569 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF9A87.9B2DDD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know of a practical use of the aluminum-sodium hydroxide = (or potassium hydroxide) reaction for producing energy? I don't see why = an electrical cell couldn't be made. Are there any other ideas? ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF9A87.9B2DDD80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Does anyone know of = a practical=20 use of the aluminum-sodium hydroxide (or potassium hydroxide) reaction = for=20 producing energy? I don't see why an electrical cell couldn't be made. = Are there=20 any other ideas?

 

------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF9A87.9B2DDD80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 18:31:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25531; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:31:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:31:19 -0800 Message-ID: <38E40E21.DF3E9D19@dove.net.au> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:02:01 +0930 From: gsawyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Ad's in postings. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"93gXi3.0.oE6.st0vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14570 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: O.k I would go with the flow on this one, for example we ARE a dedicated bunch, if someone has an item of genuine relevance, (be it Bruces "cells" or anyone else's anythings'), provided it relates to a subject that is within the scope of the list, then why not. BUT.. what about the multiple .sig files we so often see, I think that they will be very difficult to regulate. Just my meagre contribution Bill. Glenville. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 19:30:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13450; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:30:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:30:00 -0800 From: MATTIARO@aol.com Message-ID: <86.1e21022.26157588@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 22:29:12 EST Subject: Re: Ad's in postings. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 67 Resent-Message-ID: <"m5riP1.0.2I3.sk1vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14571 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello. I think that if an individual has an item of interest to the group, he / she should be able to "market" it in here. But now that I think of it, anybody with antigravitational overunity perpetual motion device has had the privilidge of promoting a sale, and stock in future, of such device. < Name dropped > < Name dropped > :-) Matti From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 19:37:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16213; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:37:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:37:35 -0800 Message-ID: <003201bf9ac2$880f4be0$688ef5d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: References: <200003301253.EAA22487@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <002f01bf9aad$d2156360$89d666ce@default> Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:37:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Psleq1.0.8z3.-r1vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14572 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris, Believe it or not I paid about $1000.00 (+ $200.00 shipping) for 12 spools of 30 guage magnet wire - 16-17 pounds a piece. That's the most they would put on one spool, and they always hide the inside lead so you have to wind it off onto another spool to make it useful. We wound huge amount (largest to date = 100,000 feet) onto one coil (12 wires in parallel). We then buzz out each lead and number it. Then you connect them together: #1 inside goes to #2 outside, #2 inside to #3 outside, etc. I wish I had a nickel for every time I've number those wires. I then bought a $1000.00 worth of Neodymium magnets to go with it. It's the only time my credit card company ever called me to see if someone had stolen my card. ;) On the bright side, we've made some wild coils. The biggest measures at 3.5 H on a $10,000 network analyzer. The guys at my work didn't trust the bridge I was using to measure with, so they had me bring it in. Like I said, it leaks after about 300 Hz and becomes a capacitor, but it's really great up to that point. You probably already know this, but usually turn #2 of a coil is wound right next to turn #1. On our coils, turn #10,000 is next to turn #1, providing a pretty good chunk of potential between them. The added capacitance seems to significantly reduce the inductive reactance reducing the leakage to almost nothing. By the way, the resistance of the coil is only about 1.5K. I will get back to the coils again someday soon, but lately it's been nothin' but gyroscopes. Thanks to you and everyone else for your comments. This is a GREAT list! Of course, you would expect nothing less from Mr. Bill. Thanks again, and I'd recommend making sure you are single before spending $1000.00 for 200 lbs of painted copper. ;) ...Z ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris O'Barr To: Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? > How much did all that wire cost you? ;) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Zimmerman > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 7:53 AM > Subject: Magnetism = LI? > > > > I read a message a while back about how the free energy guys talk a lot > but > > never actually prove anything. I have seen Joseph Newman give his demo a > > couple of times. I always had a bad feeling about Joe and his business > > practices, but there was something about his motor that kept me at it. In > > any case, I have wound many coils now using 30 guage magnet wire. The > > smallest was about 4 lbs and the largest is well over 60. The EE's at my > > company told me that I would never be able to produce any magnetism with a > > large coil because of all the leakage that would occur. Nevertheless, I > > continued, using information from Tesla patent concerning winding large > > coils with multiple conductors in parallel, and then wire them together in > > series. I believe I have a 60 lb coil that will spin the same rotor as 4 > lb > > coil using much less power. The torque on the large motor seems to be > > greater as well. > > > > I'm wondering if anyone has ever done any definitive experiments to prove > > that large coils can actually work and produce more magnetism than small > > ones. I know there are some limitations. For example, my very large coil > > starts to leak at about 300 Hz, so high RPM applications seem to be out. > > But I still think it's cool to be able to extract magnetism from nothing > but > > copper wire. > > > > > > ...Z > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 21:16:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24583; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:16:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:16:05 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Winter Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:15:29 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA24525 Resent-Message-ID: <"aZyB13.0.z_5.KI3vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14573 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well folks, Summer is pretty much over and done down under, and I'm already starting to feel the winter chill creeping in. Last year my electricity bill went through the roof during the winter, so I need a 1 kW (at least) FE device that will keep 1 room nice and warm in the coming months (and for the rest of my life as well preferably ;). So how about it, who's got one going cheap? :-)}}} Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 21:39:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA29617; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:38:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:38:54 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000331003247.008268d0@world.std.com> X-Sender: mica@world.std.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:32:47 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Winter In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IUG5W.0.cE7.jd3vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14574 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, Its just getting nice here in the North Hemisphere, Robin. Why don't we drop a very-low-internal-electrical resistance thermocouple between us ;-)X and get that meter running backwards. Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz At 03:15 PM 3/31/00 +1000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >Well folks, > >Summer is pretty much over and done down under, and I'm already starting to >feel the winter chill creeping in. Last year my electricity bill went >through the roof during the winter, so I need a 1 kW (at least) FE device >that will keep 1 room nice and warm in the coming months (and for the rest >of my life as well preferably ;). >So how about it, who's got one going cheap? :-)}}} > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 22:56:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA18520; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 22:56:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 22:56:02 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000330225136.2bdf0846@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 22:51:36 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? In-Reply-To: <002f01bf9aad$d2156360$89d666ce@default> References: <200003301253.EAA22487@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"7talt1.0.HX4.2m4vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14575 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:09 PM 03/30/00 -0500, you wrote: >> I'm wondering if anyone has ever done any definitive experiments to prove >> that large coils can actually work and produce more magnetism than small >> ones. I know there are some limitations. For example, my very large coil >> starts to leak at about 300 Hz, so high RPM applications seem to be out. >> But I still think it's cool to be able to extract magnetism from nothing >but >> copper wire. A simple model (small number of turns) says that the magnetic field is proportional to N*I, where N is the number of turns. The resistance is proportional to N. So if you are using a voltage source V, current ~1/N and the magnetic field would be independent of N. Of course the power input is VI ~V/N. The volune of copper is ~N. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 00:06:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA31335; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:05:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:05:48 -0800 Message-ID: <38E46743.188D3C9D@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:52:19 -0800 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winter References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"55wll3.0.Tf7.Rn5vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14576 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Crazy... your winter is during our summer months...... I forgot about that... how odd Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > Well folks, > > Summer is pretty much over and done down under, and I'm already starting to > feel the winter chill creeping in. Last year my electricity bill went > through the roof during the winter, so I need a 1 kW (at least) FE device > that will keep 1 room nice and warm in the coming months (and for the rest > of my life as well preferably ;). > So how about it, who's got one going cheap? :-)}}} > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 00:58:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA05974; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:58:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:58:38 -0800 Message-ID: <003901bf9ac4$6bec9ec0$688ef5d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: References: <200003301242.EAA07549@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <002901bf9aad$8aad5be0$89d666ce@default> Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:51:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"6yMPv3.0.ET1.-Y6vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14577 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hmmm, How many RPM. I was spinning a plastic waiter's tray (about the other night at about 10,000 RPM. It got away from me and ended up spinning in the center of the room for about 5 minutes. Keeping that in mind, I plan on starting small and working my way up. Actually, I'm trying to figure out a way to use the old skater's trick of pulling your arms in to increase RPM. It seems like applying some kind of bias once the thing is spinning might be able to simulate the arms being pulled in. So spin all the electrons way out away from the center of the disk, then apply a bias to pull them back in again. Unfortunately, if their mass is as small as the experts say it is, all the electrons in the world aren't going to help much. But what can I say, I'm just a pawn, following my intuition. By the way, I wasn't trying to steal from Mr. Faraday. The static meter I have is wireless (there's a little stub antenna on the top) so there are no brushes and no magnets. But even so, if anything good comes of it I'll be happy to pass all the credit along to our good friend Mr. Tesla. Thanks again, ...Z ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris O'Barr To: Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 5:07 PM Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor > How many RPM would this disk be turning? I ask because when you get down > to atomic and subatomic particles, things behave differently. How much would > inertia affect the electrons (since centrifugal force is the denial of > inertia, not a force in itself)? Do they (us feeble minded humans) even know > for sure what the mass of an electron is? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Zimmerman > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 7:42 AM > Subject: Gravity Capacitor > > > > I have seen demonstrations of these T. T. Brown kinds of devices. The > story > > is that they always move in the direction of the positive plate whether > that > > plate is pointing up or down. That never really made sense to me. But I > > did find a 90KVDC, solid-state Tesla coil (ie voltage-multiplier) in an > old > > surplus store. It had a long black pipe with the multiplier in it and a > > door knob on the top for the antenna. When you turned it on, you could > > instantly feel yourself being pushed away from it. At first I mistook > this > > as self-preservation rearing it's ugly head, but I found that my friends > had > > the same effect. I'm sure this is the electrostatic repulsion you were > > talking about, but I'm not sure why that would be bad. If you could > create > > a large negative static charge, wouldn't it naturally repel the negative > > field of the Earth? When that DC charged me up (and remember I am > organic), > > I could really feel myself being pushed away. At the same time, I always > > wondered if I hadn't just become the dielectric of a capacitor. The front > > of me facing the Tesla coil was one polarity, and the back of me, the > other. > > Maybe there's something non-symmetrical about organic dielectrics? In any > > case, I'm proud to say that except for a little anxiety about being that > > close to 90KVDC, I never felt any ill effects. > > > > I have been experimenting with a small toy gyro that seems to build a > large > > (2.5 kV) static charge when spinning. I am now experimenting with using > the > > centrifugal force of a spinning disk to cause the heavier particles to > drift > > to the outside while forcing the lighter ones to the center. The idea is > > that since the electrons are so much lighter, they may actually > concentrate > > in the center of the disk with the nucleons around the outside (you said > > this list was for fringe science right?). The encyclopedia tells me that > > nucleons constitute 99.9% of the weight of an atom, but only 10E-14 > percent > > of the actual volume. The electron is 0.0005 times lighter, but they > don't > > give any specifics on volume. If anyone knows the volume of an electron > in > > relation to the nucleons (or even why that's a dumb question), please let > me > > know. I'm thinking you might be able to tune the surface area in such a > way > > as to make the negative part cover a larger area and therefore repel more > > than the positive part. > > > > Great discussion. I hope my comments were useful (or at least > > entertaining), > > > > > > ...Scott > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 02:51:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA17792; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 02:50:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 02:50:47 -0800 Message-ID: <001701bf9aff$0d30c060$de6af4d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: References: <200003301253.EAA22487@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20000330225136.2bdf0846@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 02:51:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"mUWtP.0.sL4.6C8vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14578 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the info, I hate to admit it, but I'm not exactly sure if this is a 'yes' or 'no' answer to my question. I agree with everything you said if you are talking about a single conductor wound in a coil. But when you wind multiple conductors in parallel, the mutual inductance makes the overall inductance skyrocket, while the resistance remains the same as if you were using a single conductor. In any case, when I asked people I knew at work about this they assured me that you can only get more magnetism in theory. In reality the resistance of the wire and the inductive reactance would prevent you from getting more magnetism. But this doesn't seem to be true for the Tesla-wound coils. Because the inductance grows much faster than the resistance, you can basically set the ratio anywhere you want. The inductive reactance is almost entirely cancelled by the capacitance created between the turns. I know it sounds wacky, and I fully expected to fail after talking to my colleagues at work. But they were also surprised by the fact that the inductance grows so much faster than the resistance. This may be just what you meant by the resistance being proportional to the number of turns. If so, I apologize for repeating it here. As for the input power, we were turning a small rotor with two neodymium (36 MGOe/13,000 Gauss) magnets. In both cases we used fingers to apply friction to the rotor to put more torque on the motor. We were hoping this would prove that the motor was actually pulling the rotor along as opposed to just letting it spin. In the case of the large coil (60 pounds), the input power was about half of what we needed to spin the little coil (4 pounds). Remember that with these motors, the resistance of the coil is big enough to keep the current low (around 50 mA) even if you stop completely stop the rotor. Try doing that with a standard AC motor. All of this basically comes from Joseph Newman. Unfortunately, he neglects to mention that the method for winding the coil seems to have originally come from a patent held by Nikola Tesla. My only part in this is the patience to wind very thin wire for days at a time and then try to verify Newman's results. I was kind of hoping someone had already done all of this so I could use them to confirm what I've been seeing. ...Z From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 03:46:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA24478; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:46:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:46:38 -0800 Message-Id: <200003311136.NAA15980@imaginet.fr> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Albert CAU" Organization: sft To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:47:27 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Aluminum Reply-to: sft@imaginet.fr Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Resent-Message-ID: <"x8Inr1.0.N-5.U09vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14579 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: "Chris O'Barr" > To: > Subject: Aluminum > Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:36:20 -0500 > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Does anyone know of a practical use of the aluminum-sodium hydroxide = > (or potassium hydroxide) reaction for producing energy? I don't see why = > an electrical cell couldn't be made. Are there any other ideas? I do not think it is a good idea for the following reasons : - Aluminium is produced by electrolysis of melted sodium and aluminium fluoride . So you need a lot of energy to produce aluminium . - Aluminium is effectively attacked by sodium or potassium hydroxyde , but also need to heat a little in order to sustend the reaction . It is good to know that aluminium may be attacked by water , but the protective cap of alumina prevents the attack . If you drop a piece of aluminium in mercury , you dissolve alumina and the attack by water is possible : you get hydrogen and aluminium hydroxyde . Albert CAU sft@imaginet.fr Soft Fusion Technology http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/4786/index.html Attention nouvelle adresse http://www.geocities.com/albert_cau/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 03:47:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA24561; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:46:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:46:54 -0800 Message-ID: <38E49046.36C9@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:47:18 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com Subject: Re: "RADIO IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> <38E1D7F0.86DD8@astra.ukf.net> <38E24E2C.5ECC@cyberportal.net> <38E29581.CD60DBD4@microtec.net> <38E35AD9.32EF@cyberportal.net> <003901bf9aae$2a696340$8 9d666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qSufS1.0.f_5.k09vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14580 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris O'Barr wrote: > > What are some other ways (theory or pratice) of extracting ions from the > Earth, any solid medium for that matter? Is there anything written about this subject that you know? It appears that this can be accomplished by using an opposite charge in regards to the ion that you wish to attract. The electronic ion pump appears to be doing this. I use the word "appear" often because I do not want to make any claims to this aspect of my research. Further testing will have to be done before I can make a full commitment. -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 06:02:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA21233; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:02:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:02:05 -0800 From: "Stefano Innocenti" To: "freenrg-l" Subject: Ancient Italian Perpetual pendulum Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:59:58 +0200 Message-ID: <01bf9b19$66599da0$3900fd80@zio-stefo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"uhRuA.0.fB5.S_Avu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14581 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi list, I think this link may be useful: http://albinoni.brera.unimi.it/Atti-Como-96/tinazzi.html ciao, Stefano From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 06:27:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA30490; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:27:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:27:06 -0800 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <14.2129af4.26160f95@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:26:29 EST Subject: Air powered engine (slightly off-topic) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"nqbe53.0.FS7.vMBvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14582 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone seen the latest issue of the Lindsay Books catalog? Its got a brief blurb about a 1897 locomotive powered by compressed air. Anyone know anything about it? Would be interesting to find out why the technology was never widely adopted. Thanks, Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 06:59:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA11731; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:59:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:59:20 -0800 Message-ID: <38E4BD6D.885C7EE9@dove.net.au> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 00:29:57 +0930 From: gsawyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winter References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"euPpT1.0.Ct2.8rBvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14583 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin, This place gets a normal Ice coating during the peak Winter months too ! What about the "oil friction heater" that was up on Geoffs Site ? Bascially 2 cylinders, 1 inside the other, small gap, filled with H-temp oil and sealed. Hi-temp bearing in top and bottom of "outer" container, spin the inner container - using a small shaded pole (etc) motor, and the friction (drag) internally causes the temp to rise, not sure HOW efficient, but sounds simply enough (if one has Mechanical and Welding type skills - I Don't!). Cheers for now. Glenville. --------------------------------------------------------------- Glenville T. Sawyer Alternative Energy Experimenter: http://www.gsawyer.mtx.net Located at Kapunda, in South Australia's Historical Corridor. ---------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 07:16:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA17409; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:15:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:15:50 -0800 Message-ID: <38E4C146.AB462D8F@dove.net.au> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 00:46:22 +0930 From: gsawyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor References: <005001bf9a6d$2e17fce0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x4-Ea1.0.qF4.c4Cvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14584 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This may seem like a damm silly question, but are the common "tin cans" actually tin ? For the costs I have been seeing, if my supermarket is giving me that much tin for "free" with every 1/2 Kilo of Beans that I buy - something is wrong! Just an indication from someone as to the relative percentage content of the metals that are used in "tins" would be appreciated. Thank you. Glenville. P.S Hope this doesn't open a "can of worms" :-) - Groan. --------------------------------------------------------------- Glenville T. Sawyer Alternative Energy Experimenter: http://www.gsawyer.mtx.net Located at Kapunda, in South Australia's Historical Corridor. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 07:46:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29063; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:46:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:46:33 -0800 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Air powered engine (slightly off-topic) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:56:42 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <14.2129af4.26160f95@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <14.2129af4.26160f95@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00033110584201.00843@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA29040 Resent-Message-ID: <"pXzo83.0.067.PXCvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14585 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Still off topic, my son has an toy airplane that's powered by a compressed air, piston engine. I believe they are called 'Air Hogs'. Charlie On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Bmd2323@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone seen the latest issue of the Lindsay Books catalog? Its got a > brief blurb about a 1897 locomotive powered by compressed air. Anyone know > anything about it? Would be interesting to find out why the technology was > never widely adopted. Thanks, > Brian Drake > (Bmd2323@aol.com) -- Who is Don Alphonso, and what's all this about tweezers? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 07:57:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA32750; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:57:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:57:02 -0800 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:38:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Aluminum Message-ID: <20000331.104337.-405029.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-4,13-14,20-21,27-28,34-38 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"ix52M1.0.c_7.BhCvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14586 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris O'Barr wrote: > Does anyone know of a practical use of the aluminum-sodium hydroxide (or potassium hydroxide) reaction for >producing energy? I don't see why an electrical cell couldn't be made. Are there any other ideas? The reaction between Al and NaOH (aq) is exothermic and produces H2 by the equation 2 Al (s) + 6 NaOH (aq) + 6 H2O (l) ---> 2 Al(OH)3 (s) + 6 NaOH (aq) + 3 H2 (g). If you take a room-temperature solution (not too dilute, around 2 M is fine) of sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and put a piece of aliminum in it bubbles of H2 appear almost immediately. The reaction procedes slowly at first, but speeds up as the solution is heated by the reaction. This reaction, in a hot solution, procedes very rapidly, enough that the solution appears to be boiling and will fill a balloon very quickly. Although this reaction produces Al(OH)3, an insoluble compound, Al(OH)3 reacts with NaOH to form NaAl(OH)4, which is soluble. From experiments I have performed, the NaAl(OH)4 is capable of donating NaOH to the reaction above, though releasing less energy and precipitating Al(OH)3 as a white solid. In other words, the NaOH acts very much like a catalyst, rather than a reagent. Another interesting thing about this reaction is that it seems to produce a detectable amount, though small, of ammonia, NH3, when it is running rapidly. I found that when the reaction was running as fast as I could get it, some sort of vapor is released that has a faint odor of ammonia. A paper towel soaked in red cabbage juice indicator turns blue when the vapor passes over it. Once H2 is formed, it can be used in fuel cells, combustion chambers, etc. just as it would be from any other source. As "Albert CAU" mentioned, it takes a lot of energy to produce aluminum metal in the first place. So the reaction above is certainly not a source of free energy, though it may seem so if you weren't the one to invest the energy in the first place. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 08:07:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03591; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:07:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:07:12 -0800 Message-ID: <38E4CD8D.38EFAF77@dabney.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:08:45 -0600 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor References: <005001bf9a6d$2e17fce0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> <38E4C146.AB462D8F@dove.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"efUQW2.0.0u.mqCvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14587 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: gsawyer wrote: > This may seem like a damm silly question, but are the > common "tin cans" actually tin ? Unfortunately, no. They're just cheap steel with a thin coating of tin on the outside. -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 14:00:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26774; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:59:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:59:54 -0800 Message-ID: <38E51FEE.16D4@cyberportal.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:00:14 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nuenergy@listbot.com CC: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: coil from JLN References: <38E51C47.74440999@webzone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ubNSG2.0.BY6.P_Hvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14588 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sam wrote: > > This is what I see on JLN pages for the OAUGDP... I discovered this effect back in 1992. What JLN does not see is that the glow discharge can be used to replace a spark-gap. This type of spark-gap is highly efficient. I posted this to Bill Beaty's list but got no responses. What I didn't say is that this effect could be taken a step further by *** CENSORED OUT MATERIAL *** I will be testing this concept out real soon and will post my results to the internet. I just have not had the time to get around to it. I posted the info. about this unique type of spark-gap because JLN was getting to close to what I am doing with this type of glow discharge. I did not want anyone thinking that I had stole the idea from JLN. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 14:29:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05776; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:29:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:29:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:29:38 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: sciclub-list@eskimo.com Subject: COOOOOL java-based simulation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ki_cJ.0.5Q1.MRIvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14589 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See "constructor" below. A tinkertoy set.... that's ALIVE!!!!!! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:57:28 -0500 From: Joseph Bellina Reply-To: "phys-l@lists.nau.edu: Forum for Physics Educators" To: PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu Subject: Some fun Take a look at the web-site...its clever. http://www.soda.co.uk/soda/constructor/ have a nice weekend From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 15:52:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03860; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:52:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:52:00 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winter Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 09:51:17 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38E4BD6D.885C7EE9@dove.net.au> In-Reply-To: <38E4BD6D.885C7EE9@dove.net.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA03829 Resent-Message-ID: <"1DnJs.0.Dy.WeJvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14590 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 01 Apr 2000 00:29:57 +0930, gsawyer wrote: Hi Glenville, [snip] > What about the "oil friction heater" that was up on Geoffs Site ? [snip] > Hi-temp bearing in top and bottom of "outer" container, spin the >inner container - using a small shaded pole (etc) motor, and the >friction (drag) internally causes the temp to rise, not sure HOW >efficient, but sounds simply enough (if one has Mechanical and >Welding type skills - I Don't!). [snip] Is there any reason to believe that this produces more heat than the electric power used to drive the motor? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 17:27:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01737; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:27:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:27:35 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:29:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Reverse engineer the Testatika from the INE Perspective Cc: pgb@padrak.com (BCC: Energy_Send_,List) Resent-Message-ID: <"yDB-01.0.2R.62Lvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14591 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The deal with the Swiss M/L converter is that the high V created by the disks is somehow also used to create high current. Present thinking is that this is done where the current goes THROUGH those 2 horseshoe-shaped magnets in the unit. They look like up-side-down "U's". Not many devices have been reported that have AC going through permanent magnets. Note that the Swiss M/L C has also wire windings around those magnets. This is very similar to those on the magnets used by Hans Coler in his devices that were researched and documented by the Third Reich in Germany. Does anybody know of any other devices where electricity goes through and also around permanent magnets? PB. http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 17:34:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03230; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:34:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:34:07 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Winter Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:46:18 -0500 Message-ID: <20000401014618718.AAA242@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"RZ7yN.0.Mo.D8Lvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14592 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin wrote: >Well folks, > >Summer is pretty much over and done down under, and I'm already starting to >feel the winter chill creeping in. Last year my electricity bill went >through the roof during the winter, so I need a 1 kW (at least) FE device >that will keep 1 room nice and warm in the coming months (and for the rest >of my life as well preferably ;). >So how about it, who's got one going cheap? :-)}}} Hi Robin, C and H Sales has some large area freznel lenses that they are selling for $89. http://www.candhsales.com These lenses are 33-1/4" wide by 24-1/2" long by 3/32" thick, and can be used for a solar collector. I would probably get one to see how well the idea worked, and then get enough to cover a much larger area, like the side of your house or a portion of your roof. In the summertime, you just remove the lenses, and cover the black portions of the solar collector with Al foil to reflect heat. They have smaller ones yet, that might be good for experimenting with the parameters that is 15-1/2" in diameter for $15. Stock numbers are: OL9008 - Large OL9004 - Small The good things about these are that once they are built, they work for as long as the sun does, and have no moving parts. My Dad had one put on one of his houses, and it really did lower the heating bill quite a lot. It's not new or OU, but it is non polluting, low maintenence, public domain, and intelligent. There are also some Pamela Anderson excersize videos that work pretty good... Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 17:46:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA07309; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:46:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:46:10 -0800 Message-ID: <38E554DD.88650CFE@microtec.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:46:05 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? References: <200003301253.EAA22487@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20000330225136.2bdf0846@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oOM1j3.0.6o1.XJLvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think that the small coils produce more magnetism because they are often used with iron cores, ferromagnetic cores. Large coil are often used with air cores, like the joseph newman motor. So you get more leakage and more resistance from the large coil and the flux path is inefficient, that's what they meant. I am sure that there is nothing to do with large coils and magnets spinning inside the large coil.. why not use an efficient, ferromagnetic motor, let's say a DC motor and modify the commutator so that the electric behavior of the motor is the same as Newmans's that way you get an efficient desing with efficient flux paths, small coils. Hey, conventional motors were designed for power transfer efficiency. I am sure that Newman's is all about timing. Why not apply Newman's teachings to conventional motors instead of winding monstruous inefficient coils............... Dave Dameron wrote: > At 08:09 PM 03/30/00 -0500, you wrote: > > >> I'm wondering if anyone has ever done any definitive experiments to prove > >> that large coils can actually work and produce more magnetism than small > >> ones. I know there are some limitations. For example, my very large coil > >> starts to leak at about 300 Hz, so high RPM applications seem to be out. > >> But I still think it's cool to be able to extract magnetism from nothing > >but > >> copper wire. > A simple model (small number of turns) says that the magnetic field is > proportional to N*I, where N is the number of turns. The resistance is > proportional to N. So if you are using a voltage source V, > current ~1/N and the magnetic field would be independent of N. Of course > the power input is VI ~V/N. The volune of copper is ~N. > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 19:00:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27957; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:00:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:00:43 -0800 Message-ID: <000501bf9b86$8ea898c0$8089f5d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: References: <200003301253.EAA22487@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20000330225136.2bdf0846@earthlink.net> <38E554DD.88650CFE@microtec.net> Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:01:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"1d5Qd3.0.fq6.QPMvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14594 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Patrick, > I think that the small coils produce more magnetism because they are often used > with iron cores, ferromagnetic cores. This is just my point. Using the best experiments my colleagues could come up with, I haven't been able to prove that the small coils produce more magnetism - iron core or not (we've tried it both ways). This is the thing that gets me. Rather than guess all the time, isn't it better to just do the experiment once and prove it once and for all? In my experiments, the larger coils not only produce a larger field (ie flux density or square feet of field), but also a stronger field (ie flux intensity or actually pulling ability). But I'm just a yahoo high school dropout with too much money and time on my hands. I'm wondering if someone in the real science world has ever proven this. Someone with credentials more like Mr. Beatty. > So you get more leakage and more resistance from the large coil and the flux path > is inefficient, that's what they meant. Yes, but they had only read this in a book. When I actually showed them a real coil, they couldn't find the leak (except at high frequencies). In other words, the large coil did not leak more, the resistance-to-inductance ratio was much better, and there was nothing to indicate that the larger coil would be more inefficient than the smaller one. In fact, there was evidence to the contrary. > I am sure that there is nothing to do with large coils and magnets spinning > inside the large coil.. I'm rarely sure of anything, but I don't think I understand what you mean here. > why not use an efficient, ferromagnetic motor, let's say a DC motor and modify > the commutator so that the electric behavior of the motor is the same as > Newmans's that way you get an efficient desing with efficient flux paths, small > coils. You have obviously never tried "unwinding" the coils from a standard DC motor. Even if you get them off in one lifetime, there isn't enough room to put bigger ones back in. If you mean why not use an iron-core design, than I have no problem with that. I'd just like to have independent confirmation that the big coils are working. Everyone reads to me from the books, but other than Joe Newman, I don't know anyone that has actually taken the time to wind a big coil and do the testing. I read Frankenstein in a book, but that doesn't make it true. > Hey, conventional motors were designed for power transfer efficiency. > > I am sure that Newman's is all about timing. Why not apply Newman's teachings to > conventional motors instead of winding monstruous inefficient > coils............... If I/you could PROVE the monsterous coils were inefficient, I'd have to agree. As far as I can tell, modern motors were designed to smoke the coils the minute you put to much torque on them. Stop a little AC fan sometime and watch how fast the coils heat up. In my world, heat is the enemy. It is the mark of inefficiency, and all the motors I have right now (except those with the monsterously inefficient coils) seem to run very hot. If you have any experience to the contrary, please pass it along. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 19:15:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA01226; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:15:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:15:36 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winter Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 13:14:56 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <20000401014618718.AAA242@mail.lcia.com@lizard> In-Reply-To: <20000401014618718.AAA242@mail.lcia.com@lizard> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA01012 Resent-Message-ID: <"ys2r23.0.3J.OdMvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14595 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:46:18 -0500, Michael T Huffman wrote: [snip] >The good things about these are that once they are built, they work for as >long as the sun does..... Thanks Knuke, but that's exactly what doesn't work here in the winter :(. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 20:11:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16723; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:11:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:11:09 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Aluminum Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:23:30 -0500 Message-ID: <20000401042330328.AAA274@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"1ZHE01.0.C54.SRNvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14596 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You wrote: > Does anyone know of a practical use of the aluminum-sodium hydroxide (or potassium hydroxide) reaction for producing energy? I don't see why an electrical cell couldn't be made. Are there any other ideas? There was a pretty good discussion of this on the Vortex Group not too long ago between myself and Fred Sparber, who gave pretty much the same rundown as Ted Grimes has done here, except that Fred add the fact that the current price of recycled Al is high enough now, that it is quite a bit more practical just to sell the Al to a recycler and buy your electricity from the grid with the proceeds. Knowing how to make H2 from Al is a good thing to know however, if you get stuck somewhere where there is no grid, so the discussion is well worthwhile. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 20:18:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20395; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:18:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:18:48 -0800 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Winter Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:31:10 -0500 Message-ID: <20000401043110312.AAA217@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"TJL-e3.0.a-4.dYNvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14597 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin writes: >On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:46:18 -0500, Michael T Huffman wrote: >[snip] >>The good things about these are that once they are built, they work for as >>long as the sun does..... > >Thanks Knuke, but that's exactly what doesn't work here in the winter :(. I must be missing something here. My Dad successfully used his in the Chicago area, which is pretty far North in our country, and the temps get really low (below 0F for much of the time). I could see that this idea might not be as practical for areas North of that, due to the fact that the number of daylight hours gets to be too small, but I thought Australia had milder temps and a larger number of daylight hours during their winters. I'll have to get on a mapsite, and get some numbers on that, I guess. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 20:25:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24014; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:25:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:25:54 -0800 Message-ID: <38E57A4E.BA95E4B3@microtec.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:25:50 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Zimmerman CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? References: <200003301253.EAA22487@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20000330225136.2bdf0846@earthlink.net> <38E554DD.88650CFE@microtec.net> <000501bf9b86$8ea898c0$8089f5d1@dell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X6crl1.0.2t5.IfNvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14598 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You don't understand my point: I don't say to unwind the coils of a conventional DC motor to replace them with large coils, I mean why not modify the timing of this motor instead, after all it's designed efficiently all we need is to recapture the back EMF just like joe newman's motor do, except we do it with a modified conventional, iron core, small coil, motor. I am sure that all this is in the timing and that it has nothing to do with a "critical mass" of copper or monstrusously large coils with huge impedances. However we would probably have to modify the airgaps of the motor in order to allow it to store more magnetic energy. Scott Zimmerman wrote: > Hi Patrick, > > I think that the small coils produce more magnetism because they are often > used > > with iron cores, ferromagnetic cores. > > This is just my point. Using the best experiments my colleagues could come > up with, I haven't been able to prove that the small coils produce more > magnetism - iron core or not (we've tried it both ways). This is the thing > that gets me. Rather than guess all the time, isn't it better to just do > the experiment once and prove it once and for all? In my experiments, the > larger coils not only produce a larger field (ie flux density or square feet > of field), but also a stronger field (ie flux intensity or actually pulling > ability). But I'm just a yahoo high school dropout with too much money and > time on my hands. I'm wondering if someone in the real science world has > ever proven this. Someone with credentials more like Mr. Beatty. > > > So you get more leakage and more resistance from the large coil and the > flux path > > is inefficient, that's what they meant. > > Yes, but they had only read this in a book. When I actually showed them a > real coil, they couldn't find the leak (except at high frequencies). In > other words, the large coil did not leak more, the resistance-to-inductance > ratio was much better, and there was nothing to indicate that the larger > coil would be more inefficient than the smaller one. In fact, there was > evidence to the contrary. > > > I am sure that there is nothing to do with large coils and magnets > spinning > > inside the large coil.. > > I'm rarely sure of anything, but I don't think I understand what you mean > here. > > > why not use an efficient, ferromagnetic motor, let's say a DC motor and > modify > > the commutator so that the electric behavior of the motor is the same as > > Newmans's that way you get an efficient desing with efficient flux paths, > small > > coils. > > You have obviously never tried "unwinding" the coils from a standard DC > motor. Even if you get them off in one lifetime, there isn't enough room to > put bigger ones back in. If you mean why not use an iron-core design, than > I have no problem with that. I'd just like to have independent confirmation > that the big coils are working. Everyone reads to me from the books, but > other than Joe Newman, I don't know anyone that has actually taken the time > to wind a big coil and do the testing. I read Frankenstein in a book, but > that doesn't make it true. > > > Hey, conventional motors were designed for power transfer efficiency. > > > > I am sure that Newman's is all about timing. Why not apply Newman's > teachings to > > conventional motors instead of winding monstruous inefficient > > coils............... > > If I/you could PROVE the monsterous coils were inefficient, I'd have to > agree. As far as I can tell, modern motors were designed to smoke the coils > the minute you put to much torque on them. Stop a little AC fan sometime > and watch how fast the coils heat up. In my world, heat is the enemy. It > is the mark of inefficiency, and all the motors I have right now (except > those with the monsterously inefficient coils) seem to run very hot. > > If you have any experience to the contrary, please pass it along. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 21:50:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12534; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:50:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:50:20 -0800 Message-ID: <38E58E0D.1832BD73@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 00:50:05 -0500 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winter References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zxanC2.0.l33.RuOvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14599 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin, My latest incarnation of the H2 boiler is getting pretty close but the working pressure required might be a bit much for home use. I also designed a really nice compressed air powered "windmill" which shouldn't be too expensive to build and might be just the ticket for the homeowner. MJ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > Well folks, > > Summer is pretty much over and done down under, and I'm already starting to > feel the winter chill creeping in. Last year my electricity bill went > through the roof during the winter, so I need a 1 kW (at least) FE device > that will keep 1 room nice and warm in the coming months (and for the rest > of my life as well preferably ;). > So how about it, who's got one going cheap? :-)}}} > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 21:53:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13685; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:53:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:53:15 -0800 Message-ID: <001901bf9ba0$1de9d6c0$1da270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: Subject: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:04:17 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF9B54.AD173280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"qUV4v2.0.kL3.AxOvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF9B54.AD173280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: sparky=20 To: Say What is On your Mind!=20 Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 11:07 AM Subject: Bedini Science Fair Motor Say What is On your Mind!=20 I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used a2n3055 = Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from = a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just = drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor = used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the = coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is = turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy2-unsubscribe@listbot.com ______________________________________________________________________ Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF9B54.AD173280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: sparky =
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 11:07 AM
Subject: Bedini Science Fair Motor

Say What is On your Mind!=20

I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still = running. I=20 used a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" = plug cut=20 from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just = drill=20 5/8"holes and glue in magnets.  I used a coil from a small motor = used in a=20 vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the coil instead = of=20 bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is turning a 6" fan at = .0015=20 amp. 9 v.
To unsubscribe, write to=20 nuenergy2-unsubscribe@listbot.com
____________________________________= __________________________________
Start=20 Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF9B54.AD173280-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 23:25:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA26729; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:25:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:25:28 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winter Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 17:24:54 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <109besk42v2s7sfjobfqalko8hlmdifgpg@4ax.com> References: <20000401043110312.AAA217@mail.lcia.com@lizard> In-Reply-To: <20000401043110312.AAA217@mail.lcia.com@lizard> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA26712 Resent-Message-ID: <"zkXI72.0.YX6.eHQvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:31:10 -0500, Michael T Huffman wrote: >Robin writes: >>On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:46:18 -0500, Michael T Huffman wrote: >>[snip] >>>The good things about these are that once they are built, they work for as >>>long as the sun does..... >> >>Thanks Knuke, but that's exactly what doesn't work here in the winter :(. > >I must be missing something here. My Dad successfully used his in the >Chicago area, which is pretty far North in our country, and the temps get >really low (below 0F for much of the time). I could see that this idea >might not be as practical for areas North of that, due to the fact that the >number of daylight hours gets to be too small, but I thought Australia had >milder temps and a larger number of daylight hours during their winters. It isn't the number of daylight hours that is the problem, it's the clouds. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 23:59:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA31754; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:59:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:59:21 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winter Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 17:58:48 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <38E58E0D.1832BD73@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <38E58E0D.1832BD73@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA31721 Resent-Message-ID: <"4x37Q2.0.-l7.PnQvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 01 Apr 2000 00:50:05 -0500, Mike Johnston wrote: >Hi Robin, > My latest incarnation of the H2 boiler is getting pretty close but the >working pressure required might be a bit much for home use. Where does the H2 come from? >I also designed a >really nice compressed air powered "windmill" which shouldn't be too expensive >to build and might be just the ticket for the homeowner. >MJ [snip] I'm afraid windmills are also out of the question. I'm looking for a neat little self contained gadget, about shoe-box size. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk