From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 03:34:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA30126; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 03:34:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 03:34:34 -0800 Message-Id: <199903011134.VAA22512@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-Authentication-Warning: lebunka.ion.com.au: ts2m04.the-gc.net [203.55.161.104] didn't use HELO protocol From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:25:07 Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"7feHt2.0.ZM7.9jdss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 26 Feb 99 at 22:22, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:56:32 +0100, Thunderbird wrote: > > > > > > >> that an engine might run on pure hydrogen (no other gasses present), if > >the > >> spark is long and fat i.e. as large as possible. > > > >I do have a device which makes sparks longer and fatter... Rolls Royce uses > >this very simple and small thing in their mobiles... > > > >If an engine run's only on hydrogen, is it more efficient..??.. > > > >Aris > To my knowledge, it has never occurred to anyone to try this. It defies > all the rules of chemistry. But if it works, it should be between 10 and > a thousand times more efficient. It would need to run on very low > pressure hydrogen, just a trickle. But how does pure H burn? What's the reaction? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pop, sweltering away in summer Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, preffered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 03:34:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA30089; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 03:34:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 03:34:27 -0800 Message-Id: <199903011134.VAA22503@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-Authentication-Warning: lebunka.ion.com.au: ts2m04.the-gc.net [203.55.161.104] didn't use HELO protocol From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:20:42 Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"YxamJ2.0.2M7.2jdss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 26 Feb 99 at 12:08, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > >AFAIK *straight* O2 doesn't "combust" at all. > > Hi Robin, > > I recall this statement being made before that O2 doesn't combust, > and I was curious as to just what the explosion hazards are when working > with electrolytic systems. I know that a lot of the people on this list are My friend's lit up a 500ml flask of hydrogen (mixed with air) with a stopper in the top and a small tube and it made a loud bang, and blew the stopper out, but didn't break anything. I wouldn't know about oxygen dangers. Maybe when there is a large oxygen leak, other things react with it and seem to explode when they would normally burn. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pop, sweltering away in summer Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, preffered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 03:34:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA30074; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 03:34:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 03:34:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199903011134.VAA22508@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-Authentication-Warning: lebunka.ion.com.au: ts2m04.the-gc.net [203.55.161.104] didn't use HELO protocol From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:24:30 Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"KNJSS3.0.lL7.1jdss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 26 Feb 99 at 22:16, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:26:48 , Pop wrote: > [snip] > >I will try to upload this diagram of my own...untested ofcourse :) > > > >http://skyscraper.fortunecity.com/nova/229/hydrogen/hydro01.gif > > > [snip] > At first glance, I would say that you will get a little oxygen mixed in > with your hydrogen due to formation of oxygen bubbles on the bottom of > the canister, that float up into the hydrogen tube. Yes, which would cause a small amount of H2O to go through the intake...watch it rust...how about an insulated base? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pop, sweltering away in summer Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, preffered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 06:00:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32035; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:00:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:00:41 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <5fdc8987.36da9c7e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:56:14 EST To: cgenius@flash.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Thanks for Ecklin Information Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"fGZ1q1.0.Rq7.9sfss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You wrote: Isn't this a very similar design to Ecklins? http://www.cgenius.cbjd.net/sag David Ewing David, Thanks for the Ecklin information. His design is the most interesting overunity device I have seen so far. It looks as though it could work. I believe it needs a spin balance system incorporated into it to stop the shunts from locking up on the "horseshoe magnets" . I have made a drawing to illustrate this. It is on my site at the address below. Also, the big difference between his design and mine is that he diverts flux with the rotating shunts (bars), and I use the coils shown in the web site drawings. I'm going to build an Ecklin device with the balance system. I will let you know my results. Thanks again, Butch LaFonte http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/page2/index.htm or HLafonte's Page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 08:49:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA30757; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:49:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:49:04 -0800 Message-ID: <36DAC50B.7C686911@erie.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:49:15 -0500 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Fw: N. Biss designed latest Newman motor, questions...] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D58F4DD6B0902979B69F7E88" Resent-Message-ID: <"FRm8M1.0.QW7.0Kiss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D58F4DD6B0902979B69F7E88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My apologies, again. This post was sent yesterday, 2-28-99, but was returned as undeliverable. Why? I don't know. Hopefully, this time it will go thru. Regards, Norm --------------D58F4DD6B0902979B69F7E88 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <36D96CF5.827236A@erie.net> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:21:10 -0500 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: N. Biss designed latest Newman motor, questions... References: <006c01be6130$1d99dd60$3bdb97d0@d2w2x9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is a reply to Stefan Hartmann in regards to the questions he posed to me about the Newman prototype. Before answering these questions, I would like to take the time to explain why I have delayed my answer. I have upgraded my computer system, and in the process, the most efficient way to transfer my files to the new system was to email them to myself from my old PC, to my new PC. I also had a lot of downloading to do. I am now ready to function on-line again. As to the second prototype, it is under construction at this time, and will be finished when I can get back to it. I have my regular duties to attend to, and they take priority. As to the results, BELIEVE me when I say that they WILL be made public when all testing is done! As to why NEWMAN wanted the coils in the rotor: I have no idea. That was his idea, entirely, and you would have to ask him why he choose to do it that way. Yes, I have accessed both J. L. Naudin's web site and also your web site. By the introduction of Capacitors into the circuit, you have created an LC, resonant tank circuit. This is apparent in the results which show a decay rate of several seconds from time of input power removal to final cessation of rotor movement (Barring Friction Losses). This is not, however, over-unity. As to the Newman prototype, the unit that Joe Newman is demonstrating is NOT an OU device. The reason that HE thinks that it is, is in the flawed mathematics he is using to arrive at his final efficiency figures. At this point, let me interject a note: On the 26th of Feb., 1999, I received a personal email which chastised me for answering you with a "pitiful" reply. The author of this post wrote: (Quote) Mr. Biss, That was a pitiful reply to Stefan Hartmann. At least you could have been a little more informative about actual results. I don't know, but after a reply like that...it sure appears you have something up your sleeve (End Quote). If this person had read the entire message, he would have learned that what I posted was a reply to "POP", and that you did not try to get in touch with me until after THAT post. I deigned to answer him personally, so he can read my reply now. Respectfully. Norm Biss Erie, Pa. 2-28-99 normpems@erie.net Norm wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Stefan Hartmann > To: normpems@erie.net > Cc: newman-l@emachine.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 7:42 PM > Subject: Re: N. Biss designed latest Newman motor, questions... > > >Dear Mr. Biss, > > > >finally I got your email address. > >I already wanted to contact you by phone... > > > >I have worked over the last 15 years more or less > >with ideas of the Newman machines and also build 3 small > >prototypes. > > > >See: > > > >http://www.overunity.de/newman2 > >for the latest infos > >etc... > > > > > >As you have written up this report, how Joe Newman > >"stole" the motor built by your company, > >may I ask you a few questions ? > > > >1. Did you now build the 2nd prototype motor, > >that was in the contract between Newman and your boss ? > > > >Has this already been tested by you ? > >What are the results ? > > > >2. if not, are you planning to build one now ? > >If not, why not ? > > > >3. Why did Newman or you change the concept and > >did build the coils into the rotor and not into the stator > >as before in former motors ? (because of flux leckage considerations ?) > >I think putting the coils into the rotor is > >very difficult, cause you have to build a much more > >complex commutator ! I would rather again build > >it with a rotating permanent magnet and make sure > >the flux leackage is minimized at the stator coils. > > > >4. Have you studied J.L. Naudinīs and my web site for the latest > >infos on our Newman research ? > >What do you think about our results ? (which was also summarized > >in a recent article of Mike Carrel in Infinite Energy journal Issue 23, > 1999 > >page 31 and 32 .) > >It seems the key effect is rather in the spark gap than > >any other effect, which is simular to the Correa PAGD effect and > >the Chernetski self generating discharge effect. > > > >5. Naudin came to the conclusion, that indeed the mechanical output can be > >higher than the electrical input. > >Do you belive this also from the point of building the latest Newman > >motor ? ( I at least hope you have done a few test runs by now with the > >2nd model you had to build due to the Newman contract...) > > > >I would really like to hear your point of view. > >Thanks a lot in advance. > > > >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > >P.S.: I am not interested in the legal battle between you and Mr. Newman, > >cause you both have totally different "working > >setup manners", I guess.. > > > >I am only interested in the truth about the efficiency of the machine > >and want to hear both sides of views. > >Newman now claims, that with a new (different than yours) winding > >of the coils he is getting > >around 250 to 300 % mechanical efficiency versus DC input. > > > > > > > >>At 22:03 19.02.99 -0500, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > >>The forward was intended to be sent to the list for > >>dissemination. I apologize for the error in addressing > >>the post wrongly. > >> > >>Respectfully, > >>Norm Biss > >>Erie, Pa. > >>2-19-99 > >> > >>normpems@erie.net > >> > >> > >>Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:42:36 -0500 > >>From: Norm Biss > >>To: pop79@altavista.net > >>CC: normpems@erie.net > >>Subject: Re: Newmans Motor > > > >>Hello Pop, > >> > >>In answer to your question, I am going to direct you to a > >>URL which will tell you most of what you want to know. > >>My name is Norm Biss, and I COMPLETELY designed, drew-up the > >>Blueprints for, and the Company I am employed by, built the > >>prototype which Joe Newman is > >>using for his Demonstrations. I am sure that you will > >>have questions about this, but please go to the URL and > >>read it first. Thank You. The URL: > >> > >>http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic/biss.htm > >> > >>Regards, > >>Norm Biss > >>Erie, Pa. > >>2-19-99 > >> > >>normpems@erie.net > >> > >-- > >Hartmann Multimedia Service > >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > >WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.overunity.com > >email: harti@harti.com > > > > --------------D58F4DD6B0902979B69F7E88-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 11:31:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00441; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:31:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:31:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199903011931.NAA21892@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: N. Biss designed latest Newman motor, questions...] Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:30:15 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r5DBW.0.Y6.Zikss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I got mine.............. ---------- > From: Norm Biss > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: [Fwd: Fw: N. Biss designed latest Newman motor, questions...] > Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 10:49 AM > > My apologies, again. This post was sent yesterday, > 2-28-99, but was returned as undeliverable. Why? > I don't know. Hopefully, this time it will go thru. > > Regards, > Norm > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 11:40:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03814; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:40:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:40:32 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <641fbbeb.36daec5b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:36:59 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Site update Ecklin generator animations added Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"4qbYp2.0.Vx.lqkss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte's Page or http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/page2/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 14:23:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08321; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:22:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:22:57 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990301222641.008d4984@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 17:26:41 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: NOVA "Warnings From The Ice" this week Resent-Message-ID: <"vbKOw1.0.w12.0Dnss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi; This week "Warnings From The Ice" will air on the show NOVA (pbs). A report on the effects of global warming on the South Pole Ice Cap is the topic. Please watch this show. I would like to start the Piano Factory Art Foundation to let people be more aware of the global warming issue and that we should try to reverse its' effects. Regards; Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 14:40:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17077; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:40:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:40:27 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:39:49 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <36df15d8.84058558@mail-hub> References: <199903011134.VAA22512@lebunka.ion.com.au> In-Reply-To: <199903011134.VAA22512@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U54Dz1.0.SA4.QTnss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:25:07 , Pop wrote: [snip] >> To my knowledge, it has never occurred to anyone to try this. It defies >> all the rules of chemistry. But if it works, it should be between 10 and >> a thousand times more efficient. It would need to run on very low >> pressure hydrogen, just a trickle. > >But how does pure H burn? What's the reaction? [snip] If it works, then the idea is that the spark produces hydrogen atoms, and triplets of these react with one another according to Dr. John Mills' theory to form hydrinos. (This reaction occurs according to him in the solar corona). See his web page and many PDF documents at: http://www.blacklightpower.com/ Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 14:49:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21430; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:49:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:49:48 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:49:10 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <36e0178f.84498250@mail-hub> References: <199903011134.VAA22508@lebunka.ion.com.au> In-Reply-To: <199903011134.VAA22508@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FYKf_3.0.kE5.Bcnss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:24:30 , Pop wrote: [snip] >Yes, which would cause a small amount of H2O to go through the >intake...watch it rust...how about an insulated base? [snip] This would obviously cure the oxygen problem, however if you are worried about rust, then you also need to consider that some water vapour is going to be entrained in both gas streams anyway, as a consequence of normal evaporation, so you may need to include a means of drying the gasses once produced. PS Could you per happenstance make the "reply to" field in your messages blank? (You will still get replies, but when others click on the reply button, replies will automatically go to the list, rather than to you). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 16:13:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13300; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:13:00 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:13:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <009201be6441$ab862660$9ea645d1@nim-machine> From: "Psy-Kosh" To: "Free Energy list" Subject: negentropy Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:14:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"mP57U1.0.iF3.6qoss"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A whaile back, someone posted a link which lead to a paper which demonstrated four entropy violations. If anyone still remembers it, I really really need it. thanks. Psy-Kosh From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 16:28:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30888; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:28:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:28:31 -0800 Message-ID: <00c501be6443$f8f14360$9ea645d1@nim-machine> From: "Psy-Kosh" To: "Free Energy list" Subject: negentropy Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:31:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"6Pc6j3.0.XY7.k2pss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think my post didn't go through, so i'll try again: A while back, someone posted a link which lead to a paper which demonstrated four entropy violations. If anyone still remembers it, I really really need it. thanks. Psy-Kosh From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 17:48:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29806; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:48:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:48:53 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:46:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Message-ID: <19990301.204617.-308749.0.shea6@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-12,20 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Shaughn Shea Resent-Message-ID: <"uYH-l2.0.ZH7.5Eqss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:39:49 GMT rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) writes: [clip!] >>But how does pure H burn? What's the reaction? >[snip] >If it works, then the idea is that the spark produces hydrogen atoms, >and triplets of these react with one another according to Dr. John >Mills' theory to form hydrinos. >(This reaction occurs according to him in the solar corona). >See his web page and many PDF documents at: > >http://www.blacklightpower.com/ I haven't checked the website yet, I've actually been offline for awhile, I just upgraded my system, and it took awhile to transfer from the old box to the new, so I'm behind, and I think I've lost messages. Regardless, Did you mean to say that the spark produces hydrogen IONS? Or possibly a monoatomic form of the hydrogen gas? (as opposed to producing) I'd be quite impressed if a spark in an IC engine could create matter (and incredibly less impressed if hydrogen was formed by an engine which is fueled by hydrogen) Shaughn Shea ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 19:03:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31638; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:02:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:02:45 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 03:02:10 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <36db500f.98965990@mail-hub> References: <19990301.204617.-308749.0.shea6@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19990301.204617.-308749.0.shea6@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wPMOg1.0.Fk7.LJrss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:46:17 -0500, Shaughn Shea wrote: [snip] >>If it works, then the idea is that the spark produces hydrogen atoms, >>and triplets of these react with one another according to Dr. John >>Mills' theory to form hydrinos. >>(This reaction occurs according to him in the solar corona). >>See his web page and many PDF documents at: >> >>http://www.blacklightpower.com/ > >I haven't checked the website yet, I've actually been offline for awhile, >I just upgraded my system, and it took awhile to transfer from the old >box to the new, so I'm behind, and I think I've lost messages. >Regardless, Did you mean to say that the spark produces hydrogen IONS? Or >possibly a monoatomic form of the hydrogen gas? (as opposed to producing) > I'd be quite impressed if a spark in an IC engine could create matter >(and incredibly less impressed if hydrogen was formed by an engine which >is fueled by hydrogen) [snip] A spark is a very energetic environment. Lots of things get produced (including UV). Among the many things that happen, some hydrogen molecules (supplied as fuel), will be split into atoms. If three said atoms collide, then according to Mills, one of them can collapse into a hydrino, while the other two ionise. The two that ionise will later recombine with their electrons, producing 2 x 13.6 eV photons of UV light. This is energetic enough to split two more hydrogen molecules per UV photon, so a sort of chain reaction might be possible. According to Mills, when a hydrino is first formed through the mediation of a 27.2 eV "energy hole", 40.8 eV of energy is produced in one hit. This is already much more than in your typical chemical reaction. Furthermore, two hydrinos can undergo "disproportionation" resulting in an ionised hydrogen atom, a hydrino at a level 1 lower than previously, and lots of excess energy. Note that the engine scenario I paint here is not necessarily (if at all) supported by Mills himself. In fact he probably doesn't even know about it. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 19:19:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05248; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:19:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:19:24 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:10:51 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Monotomic gasses ????Re: Hydrogen (Bruce/Robin) In-Reply-To: <36d9b2e4.67822416@mail-hub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RN6oH3.0.qH1.yYrss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, How does one have a monotomic gas in a gas cloud at standard pressure? ??? On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:10:19 -0800, mrand@access wrote: > [snip] > >With a Brown's Gas electrolyzer you can create 1000L of H&O (mon-atomic > >hydrogen and oxygen) with 3kWH. For more info see > >http://www.eagle-research.com/products/pmisc.html > > > >Regards, Michael > > > You are forgetting that the gas you create at sea level only has a > pressure of 1 atm. Deep in the sea, the pressure would be a lot higher, > and the volume commensurately smaller. So you need to create a lot more > gas (down deep) to get the same volume that you would have on the > surface. The extra energy that this will cost is more than enough to > compensate for the energy gain from the gas bubble rising to the > surface. > (I.e. you would actually be worse off). > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 20:23:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06226; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:23:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:23:26 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Monotomic gasses ????Re: Hydrogen (Bruce/Robin) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 04:17:13 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <36df65ed.104565812@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ookyl2.0.1X1.zUsss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:10:51 -0500 (EST), John Schnurer wrote: > > > Dear Folks, > > How does one have a monotomic gas in a gas cloud at standard pressure? I have yet to see any evidence that this is in fact so. > > ??? > >On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:10:19 -0800, mrand@access wrote: >> [snip] >> >With a Brown's Gas electrolyzer you can create 1000L of H&O (mon-atomic >> >hydrogen and oxygen) with 3kWH. For more info see >> >http://www.eagle-research.com/products/pmisc.html >> > >> >Regards, Michael [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 22:03:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA09437; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:03:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:03:47 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magneto-hydrodynamics? Message-Id: <920354596.1082.69@excite.com> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:03:16 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.86 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"ir7_43.0.MJ2.2ztss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Pardon my pun on the word, but I am at a misunderstanding here. I understand that if two magnets establish a magnetic field between them,then when a wire parallel to this magnetic field moves at right angles to the field a current is induced on the wire,provided the current has a path from this induced voltage. Likewise I can send steam through the space between the magnets at a right angle to the field. At this tip of this steam nozzle I can have two electrodes to conduct a DC induction arc across the path of the steam at right angles to its emission. This current path could be made parallel to the magnetic field as in the above wire analogy. Now does part of the mechanical energy expressed as the relative movement of the steam versus the magnetic field get converted into electrical energy either aiding or detracting from the amperage in the induction arc? In light of the fact that an endothermic electrolysis reaction can actually absorb heat from its surroundings instead of exothermically emiting heat perhaps this kind of method would give new meaning to the word water torch. I would imagine the volume of amperage would have to be enormous to convert a significant portion of the steam into oxygen and hydrogen. If this were possible the arc would also probably cause the afterburn to ignite. I think I want to try this soon with a specially nozzled teapot and neodymium magnets. I have easy access to high voltage induction arcs. Actually the volume of gas occurring per time period might be a sufficiently small enough amount to ignite the gas. Boy would that be something: a real water torch! HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 22:50:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA27660; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:50:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:50:43 -0800 From: pop79@altavista.net Message-Id: <199903020650.QAA24416@lebunka.ion.com.au> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:46:24 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36e0178f.84498250@mail-hub> References: <199903011134.VAA22508@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Resent-Message-ID: <"vJFTn1.0._l6.2fuss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:24:30 , Pop wrote: > [snip] > >Yes, which would cause a small amount of H2O to go through the > >intake...watch it rust...how about an insulated base? > [snip] > This would obviously cure the oxygen problem, however if you are worried > about rust, then you also need to consider that some water vapour is > going to be entrained in both gas streams anyway, as a consequence of > normal evaporation, so you may need to include a means of drying the > gasses once produced. I realise that now... > PS Could you per happenstance make the "reply to" field in your messages > blank? > (You will still get replies, but when others click on the reply button, > replies will automatically go to the list, rather than to you). Oh, sorry, probably my NOT wanting to configure my Windoze setup at work...I use DOS only at home :) From, Paul (Quantum Business Systems) www.quantumsystems.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 1 22:50:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA27724; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:50:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:50:47 -0800 From: pop79@altavista.net Message-Id: <199903020650.QAA24426@lebunka.ion.com.au> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:46:24 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36df15d8.84058558@mail-hub> References: <199903011134.VAA22512@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Resent-Message-ID: <"gF_cG.0.tm6.6fuss"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting...but in a car engine, what comes out of the exhaust? > On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:25:07 , Pop wrote: > [snip] > >> To my knowledge, it has never occurred to anyone to try this. It defies > >> all the rules of chemistry. But if it works, it should be between 10 and > >> a thousand times more efficient. It would need to run on very low > >> pressure hydrogen, just a trickle. > > > >But how does pure H burn? What's the reaction? > [snip] > If it works, then the idea is that the spark produces hydrogen atoms, > and triplets of these react with one another according to Dr. John > Mills' theory to form hydrinos. > (This reaction occurs according to him in the solar corona). > See his web page and many PDF documents at: > > http://www.blacklightpower.com/ From, Paul (Quantum Business Systems) www.quantumsystems.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 06:44:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22710; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:43:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:43:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:36:06 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs6.acs.ucalgary.ca To: aquaponics@townsqr.com, UNIR2B1NM@aol.com Cc: dwenbert@spacey.net, PetMagic@aol.com, donadams@telusplanet.net, Vince Goetsch <3wishes@wishgranted.com>, "Dennis C. Lee" , bill@basselectronics.com, biotron@pacbell.net, grstewar@tva.gov, Terri Schoolden , johnhoffman@webtv.net, lizardhaven@zippnet.net, lkvp@mail.awod.com, Plasmatic , richarda@icx.net, rolfe_hauser@hotmail.com, Robin van Spaandonk , trknute@earthlink.net, werosser@hotmail.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Alternative horticulture/hydroponics In-Reply-To: <8fed535e.36a032ea@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v35j_3.0.jY5.1a_ss"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Russ: From your brief of below, I am interested in some practical applications of what I have read. I would like to try something in my small multi-experimental pasive solar greenhouse that is currently being use for treating greywater (3 systems), food production and plants for cleaning air. Where can we find more information on application of the below noted ideas? Please forward to any interested party. Jorg ostrowski _______________________________________________________________________ On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 UNIR2B1NM@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 99-01-15 21:14:58 EST, you write: > > > > >What Florida demonstration were you referring to? > > Not just a demonstration--a productive operation, I understand. Check out > Winston Kao's (PRONOUNCED "GOW") Natural Plus Plus Co. (not a typo); > 727.447.2344; fx -3276; powerfd@gte.net > > >Is there a Web URL you could direct me to on this? > > www.finallynourished.com > > >I am building a greenhouse in Central Florida right now and will be trying > >some aggressive hydroponic techniques. > > Mr. Kao doesn't use hydroponics; he has clearly surpassed conventional > hydroponics by means of his extraordinary techniques for composting and > treating soil & water. I've just cited hydroponics in superior relation to > conventional gardening make the point that there's always room to progress, > when you challenge the assumptions taken for granted the most (the "everybody > knows..." fallacy). > > Progress conforms to a pattern of 1) *annexing* new discoveries, and 2) > synoptically *reducing* the totality of what has been discovered to its > simplest unit. Hydroponics is reductionary. Mr. Kao has harnessed microbial > processes as yet unfathomed, much less chemically reproduced. Yet for all the > inscrutable micro-parameters inherent in this organic growth medium, a simpler > form would still be possible. I feel that one key to unlocking a new > horticultural paradigm lies in energetic input of some form or combination > thereof; that under the right conditions, light were interchangeable with > other energies; that energetic signatures constitute the ultimate significance > of nutrients; and when these operators are isolated, the super-efficient > result will obviate the usual light requirements. > > What did you think of my hydroponic + Beck + Sonic Bloom suggestion? or more > importantly, the synoptic principle behind the hypothesis? I've spoken to Mr. > Kao about radiating minerals' infra-red *emissions* at plants, in addition to > (or instead of) providing them materially; and in spite of all his success to > date, he expressed interest in the prospect. > > Besides these experimental shemes, I've got a few hydropics ideas aimed at > reducing maintence & power input--but please share what you mean by > "aggressive" techniques. > > Regards, Russ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 07:48:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA00186; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:47:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:47:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:40:21 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs6.acs.ucalgary.ca Reply-To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: UNIR2B1NM@aol.com Cc: dwenbert@spacey.net, PetMagic@aol.com, donadams@telusplanet.net, Vince Goetsch <3wishes@wishgranted.com>, "Dennis C. Lee" , bill@basselectronics.com, biotron@pacbell.net, grstewar@tva.gov, Terri Schoolden , johnhoffman@webtv.net, lizardhaven@zippnet.net, lkvp@mail.awod.com, Plasmatic , richarda@icx.net, rolfe_hauser@hotmail.com, Robin van Spaandonk , trknute@earthlink.net, werosser@hotmail.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: iodine for water treatment? In-Reply-To: <8fed535e.36a032ea@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"VVLIQ3.0.i2.jW0ts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ted Ground said: >You said:"NASA Tech Briefs- (their technology transfer magazine)- describes >some very remarkable iodine-based water treatment units- very simple, very > effective, low energy, etc...I think they use them in villages in Mexico > with great success- another great spin off from the US space program." __________________________________________________________________________ and in private communications said: "Try accessing http://www.nasatech.com. I believe I have that right.They should have a page somewhere in that site on requesting back issues or searching for specific reports. This (water treatment technology ) was covered several years ago, but they should be able to help you." ___________________________________________________________________________ Russ et al: If iodine was used to kill pathogens, perhaps it can be used to keep greywater from becoming anaerobic, while not being harmful to the hydroponic system or integrated marshes and fish tanks? If someone finds this article before I do, please let me know. Any constructive comments are appreciated. Jorg Ostrowski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 10:19:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA27789; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:19:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:19:06 -0800 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Stirling Engines Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:17:36 +0200 Message-ID: <01be64d8$f3197d00$39df1ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_VONU1.0.6o6.Pk2ts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi A while ago there was some discussion of Stirling motors being used as generators. Has any further research happened? Martin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 11:38:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26112; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:38:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:38:22 -0800 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRTJWcvRIJEzpjmTE12fiypHhOPGQIVAIPsFkxdIHkXW2dpHSnG+KwvSkNn From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:38:18 -0500 (EST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Stirling Engines Message-ID: <10612-36DC3E2A-2845@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Martin" 's message of Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:17:36 +0200 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-613236446-1569 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"fMhJ-.0.hN6.ju3ts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --WebTV-Mail-613236446-1569 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Been checking this out now for a few days myself. It has alreadty been developed but as far as buying it today(?) Maybe soon, until then experimenting for oneself seems to be the only option....... Heres a few things I have found:TECHNOLOGY WATCH ARCHIVE - PM Address:http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/sci/1TUARCHP.htm The Future of Energy Address:http://www.stmcorporation.com/ And from an earlier post for a pump; Stirling Cycle pump Address:http://www.iinet.com.au/~steveb/stirling/st_pump.htm (RB) --WebTV-Mail-613236446-1569 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.98) by postoffice-121.bryant.webtv.net; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:19:40 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by mailsorter-101-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id KAA18381; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA27803; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:19:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:19:07 -0800 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Stirling Engines Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:17:36 +0200 Message-ID: <01be64d8$f3197d00$39df1ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_VONU1.0.6o6.Pk2ts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi A while ago there was some discussion of Stirling motors being used as generators. Has any further research happened? Martin --WebTV-Mail-613236446-1569-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 14:43:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26632; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:43:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:43:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199903022242.RAA10473@icx.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 17:43:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Stirling Engines From: "Richard Austin" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Bpmln2.0.1W6.vb6ts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Martin, I have some new designs (in head) but I don't yet have the time and resources to pursue it further. The idea I want to pursue is to use large diaphragms as pistons. -- Richard Austin, Director Institute for Planetary Renewal, http://user.icx.net/~richarda ---------- >From: "Martin" >To: >Subject: Stirling Engines >Date: Tue, Mar 2, 1999, 1:17 PM > > Hi > > A while ago there was some discussion of Stirling motors being used as > generators. Has any further research happened? > > Martin > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 15:15:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18273; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:13:53 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:13:53 -0800 (PST) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:06:24 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Another simple question-- Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Resent-Message-ID: <"C2Ocl3.0.GT4.h27ts"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, If I have an electron and a positive ion separated by some distance and release them and they move toward each other: if this takes place in a constant magnetic field and the motion is perpendicular to the field, is there a net force on the particles??? Two points: 1) I think this is in fact at least related to free energy and if the answer is "yes" I will explain why. 2) The "obvious" answer of yes may not be as obvious as it seems because the changing electric field between the electron and ion as they move toward each other constitute a displacement current. All comments welcome. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 15:46:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18279; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:46:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:46:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199903022346.RAA27513@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Stirling Engines Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:44:43 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WuriK.0.WT4.7X7ts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'd use bellows, but diaphragms are probably much cheaper. Joe Portman ====================== ---------- > From: Richard Austin > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Stirling Engines > Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 4:43 PM > > Hi Martin, > > I have some new designs (in head) but I don't yet have the time and > resources to pursue it further. > > The idea I want to pursue is to use large diaphragms as pistons. > > -- > Richard Austin, Director > Institute for Planetary Renewal, http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > ---------- > >From: "Martin" > >To: > >Subject: Stirling Engines > >Date: Tue, Mar 2, 1999, 1:17 PM > > > > > Hi > > > > A while ago there was some discussion of Stirling motors being used as > > generators. Has any further research happened? > > > > Martin > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 17:47:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25228; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:46:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:46:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36DC96DD.87ED0231@servtech.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 20:56:45 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea References: <199903022242.RAA10473@icx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FMkId.0.2A6.GI9ts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Everyone, I have just updated my web pages with details on my "Magnetic Bubble Motor" idea. If you are interested, check it out at http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/energy01.html or start at my home page http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/ If anyone is *really* interested in this idea you can check out the references I provide and try to find a flaw in the idea. I don't need to be wasting my time on things that can be shown to be "not true." Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 18:17:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04169; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:17:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:17:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36DC9C77.E371E720@harti.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 03:20:39 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Newman motor analysis... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FGSUc3.0.211.wk9ts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Robert J. Burkholder" wrote: > > Stefan, > > If you have some time, I have a few questions regarding your experiences with > the Newman motor. I understand you are busy, so there's no hurry to reply. > > I've been trying to understand the back-current spike (or forward-current > spike?) which has been observed in the Newman machine. I built a small motor > using 1000 feet of 20 AWG wire, and a ceramic magnet rotor. The resistance of > the coil is 9.1 ohms. It runs pretty good on 12VDC, but there is no indication > of a current spike through the coil circuit. Probably my coil is too small. > The commutator spark is pretty bright, and there is a faint hissing sound. Do > you think this coil is too small to demonstrate the current spike? I guess, you should see at least some current spikes... Do you only see RF current bursts ? What kind of current shunt do you use ? > > There is very little back-EMF induced by the spinning rotor when the circuit > is open (maybe about 10% of the applied voltage). Do you think the back-EMF > (or flux linkage) is important for OU operation? I really donīt know that yet.. Do you have an idea how to test this ? >By "OU" I am including the > heat generated by the coil resistance as part of the energy output, rather > than the purely mechanical output. The flux linkage should only affect the > mechanical efficiency. Yes, for good mechanical output you need a good flux linkage, but maybe then the RPM goes down, cause you generate too much back-EMF... > > I've looked at your web site, and I believe you have concluded that the spike > on the oscilloscope is actually a forward current rather than backward because > of the oscilloscope circuitry. I am not totally sure. If water is used on the commutator it is just a positive current pulse. If air is used, the scope shows a negative current pulse, but the magnet is NOT deacclerated at this negative current spike ! > If so, the Newman motor should run faster with > a segmented commutator than a conventional non-segmented commutator. Have you > observed this? > No, it is not running faster in my case, but JL Naudin reported it improved speed, when he used "flying head" commutator contacts with a good spark gap. Maybe my commutator is not good enough...or I donīt have the right materials for it. > Have you experimented with a short-out segment on the commutator as in > Newman's book designs? Yes, did all run slower...not recommended ! Use a fluorescent bulb to shortout the coil after the High Voltage pulse ! >It seems that this would allow the current spike a > better path so that less energy is lost to sparking. Use a fluorescent bulb across the coil, it is still better ! > > It seems that the excess energy, if present, is pulled in somehow by abruptly > breaking the inductive circuit. Have you noticed a delay between when the > circuit is broken and the appearance of the current spike? > The "negative" current spike only appears, when you really "brush off" the brush away from the commutator segments. So it really depends on this spark gap configuration and brush and segment material you use. This Newman effect is related to the Correa and Chernetski self generating discharge and PAGD effect ! The same is true in the Russina ZAEV experiment with the charging and discharging of the caps via a mechanical commutator, where also big arcs appeared and the caps had a higher discharge energy , probably due to the arc discharge energy converting ZPE to electrical energy. > What is your opinion on the crucial design elements of the motor - high > inductance, high current, high voltage, or fast switching? For my next motor I > want to be sure I order the right kind of wire for the coil. In my current opinion, I see the Newman motor as a normal DC motor, that has these arc discharge effects, which could recharge batteries and introduce overunity electrical effects, but rather due to the right arc gap commutator configuration according to the theories of Correa and Chernetski. I am still skeptical, if the MOTOR part can really go mechanically over 100 % efficiency. (My earlier mechanical output tests went only up to about 70 % mechanical efficiency) Also Hami Ucar (when I remember it correctly) pointed out a possible error in JL Naudinīs prony brake measurement, which is not yet addressed by Naudin. (angle error of scale to brake-arm setup) Otherwise it is said Dr. Hasting and a not known university reported about 700 % mechanical efficiency for the first big Newman machine... Did they do the measurements right ? I really would like to see a measurement by an independant group testing Joe Newmanīs new motor (built by Newman and Norman Biss) via a really well calibrated dynamometer. > Thank-you very much for your help. > > Best regards, > Bob Burkholder Hope it is getting more clear now. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 2 23:05:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03135; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:05:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:05:42 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990302185343.23df7598@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 18:53:43 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Another simple question-- In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lkfV.0.qm.5zDts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:06 PM 3/2/99 EST, Ken wrote: >Hello all, > If I have an electron and a positive ion separated by some distance and >release them and they move toward each other: if this takes place in a >constant magnetic field and the motion is perpendicular to the field, is there >a net force on the particles??? I would say yes for each and both, as the "conventional" current for both the electron and ion is the same direction. > Two points: 1) I think this is in fact at least related to free energy >and if the answer is "yes" I will explain why. 2) The "obvious" answer of >yes may not be as obvious as it seems because the changing electric field >between the electron and ion as they move toward each other constitute a >displacement current. How real is the displacement current in a vacuum where this may be happening? How would any force vector from the electric field (in a line between the 2 particles) cancel the magnetic force perpendicular to that direction? > All comments welcome. > Ken >Keasy@aol.com -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 00:08:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA24960; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:07:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:07:59 -0800 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 03:06:46 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fw: NUCLEAR Y2K SYMPOSIUM Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA24938 Resent-Message-ID: <"o-0Rk3.0.u56.UtEts"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/1/99 8:09:23 AM Mountain Standard Time, remyc@prodigy.net writes: << From: harryo Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 6:51 PM Subject: NUCLEAR Y2K SYMPOSIUM NUCLEAR Y2K SYMPOSIUM Monday, March 8, 1999 9:00 a.m. to 5:30 p.m Canon Caucus Room (Room 345) Canon House Office Building Washington, DC "Probably one out of every five days I wake up in a cold sweat thinking Y2K is much bigger than we think, and then the other four days I think maybe we are on top of it. Everything is so interconnected, it's very hard to know with any precision that we have got it fixed." --John Hamre, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, October, 1998. There is wide-ranging uncertainty about the degree to which nuclear power facilities and nuclear arsenals will be impacted by the erroneous information generated by computer systems at the turn of the year (the Y2K problem). The Nuclear Y2K Symposium will discuss potential and predicted computer problems involving both nuclear power plants and nuclear weapons. It seeks to educate elected officials, the public and the media on the integrity of nuclear safety systems. PRELIMINARY PROGRAM Unconfirmed presentations are italicized MORNING SESSION (9:00 - 1:00) -OVERVIEW OF Y2K AS A MANAGERIAL AND TECHNICAL PROBLEM Introduction: Ed Markey (Moderator) U.S. House of Representatives Speaker: Bill Ulrich President, Political Strategy Group, Inc. … THE NUCLEAR POWER INDUSTRY: THE CONSEQUENCES OF COMPUTER-GENERATED FAILURES FOR SAFETY AND BACK-UP SYSTEMS Speakers: David Lochbaum Union of Concerned Scientists Michio Kaku, Professor of Theoretical Physics, CUNY Rick Cowles, President, CS America Paul Gunter, Nuclear Information and Resource Service Presenter to be announced: Nuclear Regulatory Commission Panel: Michael Murphy: Nuclear Engineer, Pennsylvania Dept. of Environmental Protection Judith Johnsrud, Director, Environmental Coalition on Nuclear Power LUNCH BREAK (1:00-2:00) AFTERNOON SESSION (2:00 - 5:30) Y2K AND NUCLEAR ARSENALS: WEAPONS AND OPERATIONS Moderators: Sam Nunn, CSIS Year 2000 Taskforce, and Tom Harkin, U.S. Senate Speakers: Tom Harkin (Introductory Remarks) Sam Nunn (Introductory Remarks) Ted Taylor, Visiting Fellow, Princeton University Center, Energy and Environmental Studies Bruce Blair, Brookings Institution Michael Kraig, British American Security Information Council Stephen Young, British American Security Information Council Presenter to be announced, Department of Defense QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION PERIOD: 5:00-5:30 For More Information, Contact: Scott Cullen Counsel STAR (Standing for Truth About Radiation) P.O. Box 4206 East Hampton, NY 11937 (516) 324-0655 fax: 516 324-2203 scott@noradiation.org Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved. -Helen Adams Keller (1880-1968) >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 00:18:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27652; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:18:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:18:28 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990303000600.1eb75efc@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 00:06:00 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea In-Reply-To: <36DC96DD.87ED0231@servtech.com> References: <199903022242.RAA10473@icx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aIxX_2.0.zl6.K1Fts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob, At 08:56 PM 3/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi Everyone, > >I have just updated my web pages with details on my "Magnetic Bubble Motor" >idea. > >If you are interested, check it out at > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/energy01.html > Can you explain more the "hard" magnetic bubbles" Is the field reversed also inside the disk- (The disk is the boundary between 2 aligned regions)? Do the domains also twist as the go from "up" to down" and the amount or direction of twist varies as one goes around the disk boundary? Do you understand how you can magnetize normal bubbles- say using an opposite field, but not enough to reverse all the domains in the magnet? Could you approximate this with small individual magnets at different orientations? Thanks, -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 04:36:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA01576; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:36:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:36:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36DD2F1D.75E4B8E4@servtech.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 07:46:21 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea References: <199903022242.RAA10473@icx.net> <3.0.6.16.19990303000600.1eb75efc@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BiPoX1.0.XO.GpIts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi Bob, > At 08:56 PM 3/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Hi Everyone, > > > >I have just updated my web pages with details on my "Magnetic Bubble Motor" > >idea. > > > >If you are interested, check it out at > > > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/energy01.html > > > Can you explain more the "hard" magnetic bubbles" Is the field reversed > also inside the disk- (The disk is the boundary between 2 aligned regions)? Hard magnetic bubbles are a little "hard" to visualize... If you consider a piece of paper as the magnetic material, then draw a circle on the paper. The circle is the magnetic bubble. Inside the cirele label it "S" for south pole. Outside the circle everything is labeled "N" for north pole. So, there is a region around the bubble (circle) in which the South pole inside the circle get converted into a Noth pole outside the circle. So draw a circle aroun the circle a little bigger than the original circle. The are between the two circle is the transition area/region and is called the magnetic bubble wall. The magnetization vector rotates 180 degrees as you move through this region going from inside the bubble to outside the bubble. As the magnetization vector is rotating through 180 degrees from, say, "up" to "down", it can also rotate "clockwise" or "counter-clockwise" ("twist"). It is these additional "twists" that result in "hard" bubbles. > > Do the domains also twist as the go from "up" to down" and the amount or > direction of twist varies as one goes around the disk boundary? > > Do you understand how you can magnetize normal bubbles- say using an > opposite field, but not enough to reverse all the domains in the magnet? You can get normal bubbles in the same way as I discribed the magnetization process for hard magnetic bubbles. You just don't cool the material. The higher the material temperature is, the more hard bubble suppression there is. Note that we need to generate hard magnetic bubbles in every magnetic particle making up the overall magnetic. We do not want a big magnetic bubble which takes up many, many magnetic particles. You can make such big bubbles by just using a small, powerfull magnet in contact with a bigger, and weaker, magnetic. But, in this case, the magnetic bubble's domain wall structure can not rotate around the magnetic bubble. So you want the magnetic bubbles in single grains of the magnetic material. > > Could you approximate this with small individual magnets at different > orientations? > Thanks, > -Dave I am not sure how you would do this. You need to re-construct all the forces in the magnetic bubble's domain wall on all the magnetization vectors. And it would have to be done in such a way as to allow the "hard" bubble strusture to move through the "simulated" material. I am not sure how you would do this. Thanks for the questions.... Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 04:50:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA04824; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:50:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:50:13 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <2b01baa9.36dd2fe3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:49:39 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Electrogravitics update Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 141 Resent-Message-ID: <"ROLNy2.0.DB1.50Jts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, Today, I have updated my web site with some pictures of the Prof.Cornille's electrostatic motor at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/elecmtr.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) Email: JNaudin509@aol.com Personnal Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm A.E.Systems home page : http://www.aes.com.freeservers.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 05:05:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA08558; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:05:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:05:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199903031305.IAA03712@icx.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 08:05:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Stirling Engines From: "Richard Austin" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"raGiw2.0.d52.NEJts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Joe, Do you know of a source for bellows or diaphragms? -- Richard Austin, Director Institute for Planetary Renewal, http://user.icx.net/~richarda ---------- >From: "Joe Portman Sr." >To: >Subject: Re: Stirling Engines >Date: Tue, Mar 2, 1999, 6:44 PM > > I'd use bellows, but diaphragms are probably much cheaper. > Joe Portman > ====================== > > ---------- >> From: Richard Austin >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: Stirling Engines >> Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 4:43 PM >> >> Hi Martin, >> >> I have some new designs (in head) but I don't yet have the time and >> resources to pursue it further. >> >> The idea I want to pursue is to use large diaphragms as pistons. >> >> -- >> Richard Austin, Director >> Institute for Planetary Renewal, http://user.icx.net/~richarda >> >> ---------- >> >From: "Martin" >> >To: >> >Subject: Stirling Engines >> >Date: Tue, Mar 2, 1999, 1:17 PM >> > >> >> > Hi >> > >> > A while ago there was some discussion of Stirling motors being used as >> > generators. Has any further research happened? >> > >> > Martin >> > >> > >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 06:04:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA21592; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 06:03:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 06:03:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:01:02 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca Reply-To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: Martin Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Stirling Engines In-Reply-To: <01be64d8$f3197d00$39df1ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"B9fzP2.0.DH5.f4Kts"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Martin et al: A good question on a promising and practical technology. Does anyone know of any existing applications of stirling co-generators or solar stirlings? It seems that they would have many applications in this day of environmental concern. Jorg Ostrowski _____________________________________________________________________ On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Martin wrote: > Hi > > A while ago there was some discussion of Stirling motors being used as > generators. Has any further research happened? > > Martin > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 07:34:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA26597; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:34:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:34:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36DD5725.1EA70345@harti.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 16:37:09 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Robert Gray Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea, Sweet VTA worked this way.. References: <199903022242.RAA10473@icx.net> <3.0.6.16.19990303000600.1eb75efc@earthlink.net> <36DD2F1D.75E4B8E4@servtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pffXI2.0.UV6.7QLts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert Gray wrote: > > Dave Dameron wrote: > > > Hi Bob, > > At 08:56 PM 3/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi Everyone, > > > > > >I have just updated my web pages with details on my "Magnetic Bubble Motor" > > >idea. > > > > > >If you are interested, check it out at > > > > > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/energy01.html > > > > > Can you explain more the "hard" magnetic bubbles" Is the field reversed > > also inside the disk- (The disk is the boundary between 2 aligned regions)? > > Hard magnetic bubbles are a little "hard" to visualize... If you consider > a piece of paper as the magnetic material, then draw a circle on the paper. > The circle is the magnetic bubble. Inside the cirele label it "S" for south > pole. > Outside the circle everything is labeled "N" for north pole. So, there is a > region around the bubble (circle) in which the South pole inside the circle get > converted into a Noth pole outside the circle. So draw a circle aroun the > circle > a little bigger than the original circle. The are between the two circle is the > > transition area/region and is called the magnetic bubble wall. The > magnetization > vector rotates 180 degrees as you move through this region going from inside the > > bubble to outside the bubble. As the magnetization vector is rotating through > 180 degrees from, say, "up" to "down", it can also rotate "clockwise" or > "counter-clockwise" ("twist"). It is these additional "twists" that result in > "hard" bubbles. > > > > > Do the domains also twist as the go from "up" to down" and the amount or > > direction of twist varies as one goes around the disk boundary? > > > > Do you understand how you can magnetize normal bubbles- say using an > > opposite field, but not enough to reverse all the domains in the magnet? > > You can get normal bubbles in the same way as I discribed the magnetization > process for hard magnetic bubbles. You just don't cool the material. The > higher the material temperature is, the more hard bubble suppression there is. > > Note that we need to generate hard magnetic bubbles in every magnetic particle > making up the overall magnetic. We do not want a big magnetic bubble which > takes up many, many magnetic particles. You can make such big bubbles by just > using a small, powerfull magnet in contact with a bigger, and weaker, magnetic. > > But, in this case, the magnetic bubble's domain wall structure can not rotate > around the magnetic bubble. So you want the magnetic bubbles in single grains > of the magnetic material. > > > > > Could you approximate this with small individual magnets at different > > orientations? > > Thanks, > > -Dave > > I am not sure how you would do this. You need to re-construct all the forces > in the magnetic bubble's domain wall on all the magnetization vectors. And it > would have to be done in such a way as to allow the "hard" bubble strusture to > move through the "simulated" material. I am not sure how you would do this. > > Thanks for the questions.... > > Bob Gray Hi Bob, a few questions about the magnetic bubbles. I have a video tape of the Sweet VTA device and it is said in a few articles that he also used magnetic bubbles in ferrite magnets to get it to run overunity. It is told, that the bubbles can move inside the magnet via a magnetic "helper field" which does not require much power to shift the location of the bubbles. This way the bubbles are shifted left and right with the 60 Hz "helper field" and the bubbles themself induce due to their motion in some output coils huge dphi/dt induction voltages where the huge output power comes from. (helper field and output field are 90 degrees out of phase, therefore no back-emf possible !) Now my question. Is it possible to right or left shift the bubbles inside a bar ferrite magnet via a small helper field created by 2 coils wound around the magnet at both ends ? What is the best magnet material to create magnetic bubbles which can move inside the magnet with the smallest amout of outside power (helper field density)? What is your experience so far ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 09:36:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06823; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:36:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:36:18 -0800 Message-ID: <36DD5774.98B63252@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:38:28 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: 1876 helicopter? References: <36D8BF35.2C781558@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ISZeS1.0.Vg1.HCNts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Did A Helicopter Fly In 1876... The Year Of Custer's Last Stand? From Stig Agermose From Jim Goodluck 2-27-99 From Jack Finney's book "Forgotten News" (1984), p. 282: "Mr. W.J. Lewis, of New York City, has invented a flying-machine, which scientific gentlemen pronounce a decided wonder," begins a news story in *Leslie's Illustrated Newspaper* of December 30, 1876. It "is the forerunner of an apparatus," the story continues, "which he promises to attain a speed through the air of at least one hundred miles an hour." Then, startlingly, the story provides detailed specifications: "... two propellors for lifting, and the shorter part bending downward ... [with] a propellor at the rear end which is used for driving the machine forward." Its motive power was a huge spring "weighing several pounds," and: "Running through the entire length of the frame is a shaft, connecting with and communicating the power to the different propellors. The shaft of the rear propellor is connected with the main shaft by a universal joint. The propellors are right and left handed, the flanges or blades, of which there are four to each propellor, are concave-convex in form. Each one is set in motion by four beveled wheels, which are connected with the shafts, and therefor the motion is simultaneous. "Situated near the center of gravity are a pair of movable planes, slightly convex-concave, one on either side, which are used to guide the machine up or down. In the front is a rudder to give a right or left motion ..." What *about* this? A helicopter flying through the skies of 1876? Well, the news report includes an illustration, which seems to show exactly that; and, the article continues tantalizingly: "During a formal test, Mr. Lewis directed his machine at various angles, and in all instances it flew" -- "flew"! -- "sraight in the direction pointed." And, that's all this forgotten story has to say about that. Is it possible? Could it really have happened? I consulted a designer for Grumman Aerospace Corporation, Joseph Lippert Jr., ... And, in a report headed "The Lewis Flying Machine of 1876", aircraft designer Lippert says: "It is believed that such a device ... could make short flights since it is indicated to have the necessary lifting forces, and arrangement of forces to provide longitudinal stability, directional and roll control." So there you have it: the picture and specifications described in this forgotten story apparently make sense to one of Grumman's ace designers. He continues: "From the description and illustration, a 'modern' equivalent may be sketched as follows ... The counter rotating lifting propellors", he says, "would reduce the overturning torque, but there would be some residual torque .... The downward inclination of the rear portion of the fuselage is interesting since this results in a thrust inclination of the rear thrusting propellor which produces a stabilizing influence. This principle is ... in use today .... A minor ... defect in the design could be the placement of the 'rudder' in the forward position. Some early pioneers did however fly aircraft with forward surfaces .... It is concluded that ... a similar model today ... could fly and be controllable." So that's that: a helicopter in the year of the Custer massacre. And which the nineteenth century seems to have forgotten. Maybe so. Because I think the nineteenth century took "Progress" for granted, took stunning inventions in stride. Few soothsayers of the times ever failed to predict that the skies would soon fill with flying machines. So when W.J. Lewis sent a helicopter flying through the air of 1876, I think people weren't a bit surprised. That they'd been expecting it. Probably wondered why it took so long. And then, what with one thing or another, they got busy, the whole thing just slipped the nineteenth century's mind, and they simply forgot to pass the news down to us. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 09:41:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA09026; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:41:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:41:31 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:43:43 -0500 Subject: Fw: Re: Stirling Engines Message-ID: <19990303.123949.171.1.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-21 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David l Tingley Resent-Message-ID: <"2KvPh2.0.xC2.AHNts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There is a 25kw stirling engine/generator and concave mirror in the lawn at the pentagon. I don't have the URL in front of me, but I can look it up if you wish. Dave Martin et al: A good question on a promising and practical technology. Does anyone know of any existing applications of stirling co-generators or solar stirlings? It seems that they would have many applications in this day of environmental concern. Jorg Ostrowski _____________________________________________________________________ On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Martin wrote: > Hi > > A while ago there was some discussion of Stirling motors being used as > generators. Has any further research happened? > > Martin > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 10:01:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA14624; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:01:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:01:07 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2b01baa9.36dd2fe3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:57:44 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Electrogravitics update Resent-Message-ID: <"FcZQ51.0.Ia3.YZNts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis - >Dear All, > >Today, I have updated my web site with some pictures of the Prof.Cornille's >electrostatic motor at : >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/elecmtr.htm > >Best Regards, > >Jean-Louis Naudin (France) >Email: JNaudin509@aol.com >Personnal Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm >A.E.Systems home page : http://www.aes.com.freeservers.com Was the motor ever tested with a housing around it to help air movements from skewing the results? Thanks, - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 10:30:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24455; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:29:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:29:50 -0800 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: Stirling Engines Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:28:10 +0200 Message-ID: <01be65a3$978b0e60$3ddf1ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"j_UtJ1.0.iz5.S-Nts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The idea I want to pursue is to use large diaphragms as pistons. > >-- >Richard Austin, Director >Institute for Planetary Renewal, http://user.icx.net/~richarda I checked out your site and the idea seems quite feasable assuming large bellows can be found. If so they will cut down the cost of machining etc and make the units feasable in third world countries. I was experimenting with an LPG version of one of these motors a while back. But the restrictions on LPG do not make it useful. Martin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 12:09:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25694; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:09:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:09:03 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:07:23 -0500 Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Re: Stirling Engines Message-ID: <19990303.150724.171.2.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,13-26,28-38 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David l Tingley Resent-Message-ID: <"UkYiD3.0.NH6.VRPts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK, I found it, here it is... http://www.stmcorporation.com/press/sundish.htm for LOTS of stirling info... http://www.bekkoame.or.jp/~khirata/indexe.htm Dave: Is it working? The web site would be of value. Jorg ostrowski ___________________________________________________________________ On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, David l Tingley wrote: > > There is a 25kw stirling engine/generator and concave mirror in the lawn > at the pentagon. I don't have the URL in front of me, but I can look it > up if you wish. > > Dave > > Martin et al: A good question on a promising and practical technology. > Does anyone know of any existing applications of stirling > co-generators or solar stirlings? It seems that they would have many > applications in this day of environmental concern. Jorg Ostrowski > _____________________________________________________________________ > On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Martin wrote: > > Hi > > > > A while ago there was some discussion of Stirling motors being used as > > generators. Has any further research happened? > > > > Martin > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 13:35:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31943; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:35:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:35:06 -0800 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRLjY79MwMDi+RTswug6K029+R6lgIUECWVybosFsyAsiIPxPd9zHaoNm4= From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:34:55 -0500 (EST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Generator coils Message-ID: <15170-36DDAAFF-279@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"nRHuM3.0.qo7.7iQts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What factors are considered when building a coil for a generator. Say I would like to wind a coil to produce 24 volts AC with as much current as possible. I start with a half inch square neo magnet. Now I assume the iron core must match this on it's facing end.Now how long must the core be? Does thicker gauge wire produce more current? I realize RPM produces more voltage,How many turns of wire and of what gauge if I had RPMS at 2,000. Is there a formula? Thanks for any help. RB From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 14:09:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14951; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:08:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:08:52 -0800 Message-ID: <36DED2B4.7D62@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:36:36 -0800 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Stirling Engines References: <01be64d8$f3197d00$39df1ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aKsUj3.0.Sf3.qBRts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Martin, You wrote recently: > > A while ago there was some discussion of Stirling motors being used as > generators. Has any further research happened? > > Martin Yes. Such units are manufactured and sold in New Zealand by a subsidiary of the electricity company "Southpower". They are sold under the name of "Whisper Gen". They are very practical, and consist of an improved external combustion 'Stirling' engine, and an extremely efficient "Cadac" electrical generator. As an external combustion engine they run on any fuel from diesel to bio mass or wood gas, burning continuously. I can also remember such engines from my childhood. Small ones were used to power sheep shearing equipment in the 'back country'. They stood about three feet high, and had a small wood fire burning under them. The remarkable "Cadac" motor/generator was invented by a New Zealander called Peter Clark...... (in the 1980's I think). From memory, it uses ceramic magnets configured as an OUTER rotor, and a fixed 'iron-less' plastic stator. A "Cadac" motor was also used to power a New Zealand entry in the 1993 "Hoxan" international solar car race across the Australian outback. It won first place in its class and 15th place overall. The car was built in Hamilton on a shoe-string budget ($40,000), and competed against Honda's entry, which cost $12M to develop. For more information about "Whisper Gen" units please check the following pages and their associated links: http://www.whispergen.com/ http://www.southpower.co.nz/whisp.htm http://www.southpower.co.nz/whisperg.htm http://www.southpower.co.nz/whispec.htm Martin, I also have a little more general information (non-technical) about the "Cadac" motor/generator, that I could send if you'r interested. Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 14:12:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16249; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:11:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:11:57 -0800 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 22:11:21 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <36ddb28b.52377984@mail-hub> References: <199903011134.VAA22512@lebunka.ion.com.au> <199903020650.QAA24426@lebunka.ion.com.au> In-Reply-To: <199903020650.QAA24426@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA16232 Resent-Message-ID: <"dsY6r3.0.oz3.jERts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:46:24 +1000, pop79@altavista.net wrote: >Interesting...but in a car engine, what comes out of the exhaust? > In this case the exhaust can be 100% recycled back to the input. :) Any hydrinos formed will get smaller and smaller, eventually either leaking out of the system, or perhaps undergoing a nuclear reaction, liberating even more energy. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 15:03:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05337; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:03:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:03:38 -0800 Message-ID: <36DDC21B.CBE6DF55@servtech.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 18:13:31 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea, Sweet VTA worked this way..] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B682F744DD657BD3409359B2" Resent-Message-ID: <"lMq_Z2.0.EJ1.9_Rts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B682F744DD657BD3409359B2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------B682F744DD657BD3409359B2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <36DDC0E0.A8866B4E@servtech.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 18:08:16 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea, Sweet VTA worked this way.. References: <199903022242.RAA10473@icx.net> <3.0.6.16.19990303000600.1eb75efc@earthlink.net> <36DD2F1D.75E4B8E4@servtech.com> <36DD5725.1EA70345@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > Hi Bob, > > a few questions about the magnetic bubbles. > > I have a video tape of the Sweet VTA device and it is said > in a few articles that he also used magnetic bubbles in ferrite > magnets to get it to run overunity. That's what I read some place as well. But I don't think that the magnets *moved* in Sweer's case. I thought they remaind stationary but that their magnetization vector oscillated. Is that your understanding as well? > > It is told, that the bubbles can move inside the magnet via a magnetic > "helper field" > which does not require much power to shift the location of the bubbles. > That depends. In thin films, where all the scientific work seems to have been focused, the magnetic bubbles can move easily through the magnetic bubble material. In a "normal" ferrite magnet, the particles which make up the magnetic are of "odd" (not uniform) shapes. In this case, I still think you can create magnetic bubbles but I am not sure they can move easily through the particles. And I have greater doubts that the bubbles can move from particle to particle. In fact, I am hoping that they can not move from particle to particle. Or, if they can, I am hoping that there is a resistance in doing so, so that the force on the bubbles gets converted to a force on the material. I haven't found any references on magnetic bubbles in "bulk" magnetic material (magnets made from many particles.) > > This way the bubbles are shifted left and right with the 60 Hz "helper > field" > and the bubbles themself induce due to their motion > in some output coils huge dphi/dt induction voltages > where the huge output power comes from. > I was looking into Sweet's work when I came across a reference to magnetic bubbles. Not knowing anything about them, I checked out one of O'Dell's books and started reading. This is how I was "lead" to consider and investigate magnetic bubbles... I was thinking that, for Sweet's devices, the magnetic bubbles would be expanding and contracting as the small AC field is applied. Maybe this happens in a non-linear way.... > > (helper field and output field are 90 degrees out of phase, therefore > no back-emf possible !) > > Now my question. > > Is it possible to right or left shift the bubbles inside a bar ferrite > magnet > via a small helper field created by 2 coils wound around the magnet at > both ends ? > I don't see the magnetic bubbles moving through the material as a whole, but I could be wrong in this. The "Bloch lines" in the bubble's wall will rotate around, once on the right, then on the left, then on the right again, in an AC field. > > What is the best magnet material to create magnetic bubbles which can > move > inside the magnet with the smallest amout of outside power (helper field > density)? > You can get "large" magnetic bubble thin films in which the bubles move quite freely. I don't know the "best" material. I am trying to work with Barium Ferrite because I found a paper that showed magnetic bubbles in Barium Ferrite thin films and becuase I have that available and its not very expensive. > > What is your experience so far ? > > Regards, Stefan. > So far its been mostly "book learning" and library research. I've read a lot about magnetic bubbles, I have found some interesting papers on magnetic bubbles and magnetic bubble generation. But until I can get a proper magnetic bubble generator I will be unable to do oany experimentation. One company told me that it would cost approx. $50,000 for them to build the magnetic bubble generator. Then, later, they said they would prefer not to do it at all. So, experimentation is at a stand still for the moment. (I am hoping someone on the list will "pick up the ball and run with it....") Bob Gray --------------B682F744DD657BD3409359B2-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 15:12:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08338; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:12:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:12:26 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 00:14:59 +0100 Message-Id: <199903032314.AAA32625@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Robert Gray From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea, Sweet VTA worked this way.. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"lI_2I.0.B22.Q7Sts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is there any good web site, where I can read about magnetic bubbles ? Please let me know. Thanks a lot. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net www.overunity.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 15:20:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA11821; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:20:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:20:29 -0800 Message-ID: <36DDC60F.3FC9EBD8@servtech.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 18:30:23 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Hartmann CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea, Sweet VTA worked this way.. References: <199903032314.AAA32625@ns.b.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7KPfD2.0.cu2.zESts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Is there any good web site, > where I can read about magnetic bubbles ? > There are some sites that mention magnetic bubbles, but they usualy just say they were once used in information storage device. I haven't found a "good" web site on magnetic bubbles. So if *you* find one, please let me know. Particularly if they mention *hard* magnetic bubbles. My web pages have a little intro on magnetic bubbles including hard magnetic bubbles http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/bubble/details.html > > Please let me know. > > Thanks a lot. > > Regards, Stefan. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net www.overunity.com > email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 15:23:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13255; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:23:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:23:14 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:14:38 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Q: ???Re: Electrogravitics update In-Reply-To: <2b01baa9.36dd2fe3@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"izd9x1.0.0F3.XHSts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, 1] Jean Naudin has my complete respects ... a "walk it... not talk it" guy... he does stuff! Q: What does this ion wind motor have to do with electro gravitics? On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > Dear All, > > Today, I have updated my web site with some pictures of the Prof.Cornille's > electrostatic motor at : > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/elecmtr.htm > > Best Regards, > > Jean-Louis Naudin (France) > Email: JNaudin509@aol.com > Personnal Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > A.E.Systems home page : http://www.aes.com.freeservers.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 15:37:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA17980; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:37:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:37:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:29:08 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: free E Subject: HOW ????Re: Call for experiments (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GeZtF2.0.nO4.5VSts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:05:49 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: vortexC-L@eskimo.com Subject: HOW ????Re: Call for experiments On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Fred Epps wrote: cuts__________ > In fact you can make an argument that a many layered structure like this > with ---- extremely low capacitance--- How do many layers equal low capacitance? and a very low inductance as well > (assuming nonferrous metal is used--ideally diamagnetic) How do either of these things equate to low inductance? is a perfect > waveguide for maxwellian faster than light waves. What are these ... maxwellian faster than light waves ? In effect you are > providing a structure that has a mu * e product less than that of free > space, as a total structure (at least with enough layers). There are > some valid criticisms of this viewpoint but there still seems to me to > be something to it... > What do you mean? > Fred > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 16:02:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27650; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:02:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:02:18 -0800 From: pop79@altavista.net Message-Id: <199903040001.KAA22487@lebunka.ion.com.au> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:56:52 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Hydrogen car Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Resent-Message-ID: <"pG55X1.0.bl6.7sSts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a cut n paste from someone from the aus.cars newsgroup: The actual reaction is: 2 x H2 + O2 --> 2 x H2O ie: 2 Hydrogen molecules plus one Oxygen molecule produces 2 water molecules. This reaction is not the problem. It produces a large amount of heat which causes the water vapour to expand. This gives the pressure on the piston to enable the car to proceed. However, the intense heat and pressure in the combustion chamber causes a small amount of Nitrogen in the air to oxidise as well. Of course, it is some time since I did my 1st year chemistry at uni, and I could be quite wrong, although I'm pretty certain that the oxidation of Hydrogen is exothermic. Certainly, the bit about the oxidation of nitrogen is correct. This also happens in petrol engines (and diesels as well). Petrol engines have the further problem that the hydrocarbons in the petrol do not always burn completely, and the combustion process produces a cocktail of (mostly noxious) carbon-oxygen-nitrogen compounds. From, Paul (Quantum Business Systems) www.quantumsystems.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 16:02:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27635; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:02:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:02:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:04:07 +0100 Message-Id: <199903040004.BAA00926@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Robert Gray From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea, Sweet VTA worked this way.. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"004YD2.0.Al6.6sSts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 18:30 03.03.99 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: > > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >> Is there any good web site, >> where I can read about magnetic bubbles ? >> > >There are some sites that mention magnetic bubbles, but they usualy >just say they were once used in information storage device. I haven't >found a "good" web site on magnetic bubbles. So if *you* find one, >please let me know. Particularly if they mention *hard* magnetic >bubbles. > >My web pages have a little intro on magnetic bubbles including hard >magnetic bubbles > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/bubble/details.html > >> I just found lots of information just searching the IBM patent server about the words "magnetic bubble" Here are a few good links: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn10=US03887905 http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US03887905__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04151602__&language=en http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04556583__&language=en There are also links inside the patent server to relating patents. Pretty interesting. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net www.overunity.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 16:08:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29152; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:08:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:08:33 -0800 Message-ID: <36DDD113.DF3FD68A@servtech.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:17:23 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Hartmann CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea, Sweet VTA worked this way.. References: <199903040004.BAA00926@ns.b.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cvj_M2.0.K77.0ySts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > At 18:30 03.03.99 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: > > > > > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > >> Is there any good web site, > >> where I can read about magnetic bubbles ? > >> > > > >There are some sites that mention magnetic bubbles, but they usualy > >just say they were once used in information storage device. I haven't > >found a "good" web site on magnetic bubbles. So if *you* find one, > >please let me know. Particularly if they mention *hard* magnetic > >bubbles. > > > >My web pages have a little intro on magnetic bubbles including hard > >magnetic bubbles > > > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/bubble/details.html > > > >> > > I just found lots of information just searching the IBM patent > server about the words "magnetic bubble" > > Here are a few good links: > > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn10=US03887905 > http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US03887905__ > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04151602__&language=en > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04556583__&language=en > > There are also links inside the patent server to relating patents. > > Pretty interesting. > > Regards, Stefan. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net www.overunity.com > email: harti@harti.com When I applied for my USA patents, we did a "patent search" and found *lot* of paptents with respect to magnetic bubbles, but none which related in any way to using hard magnetic bubbles to move the material in which they occur. I will look at the links you gave above. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 16:45:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08490; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:45:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:45:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:47:53 +0100 Message-Id: <199903040047.BAA01764@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: Robert Gray From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubbles for Sweet VTA... Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA08425 Resent-Message-ID: <"8Pz7x.0.V42.FUTts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please read this: http://keelynet.com/energy/vtakey.htm Alan Dubla īs site http://www.space-research.com/~ajdubla/vta mentioned is not responding in this moment. That was the guy who already "shooted" magnetic bubbles via his pulser coils into Barrium Ferrite material ! At 19:17 03.03.99 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: > > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >> At 18:30 03.03.99 -0500, Robert Gray wrote: >> > >> > >> >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> > >> >> Is there any good web site, >> >> where I can read about magnetic bubbles ? >> >> >> > >> >There are some sites that mention magnetic bubbles, but they usualy >> >just say they were once used in information storage device. I haven't >> >found a "good" web site on magnetic bubbles. So if *you* find one, >> >please let me know. Particularly if they mention *hard* magnetic >> >bubbles. >> > >> >My web pages have a little intro on magnetic bubbles including hard >> >magnetic bubbles >> > >> >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/bubble/details.html >> > >> >> >> >> I just found lots of information just searching the IBM patent >> server about the words "magnetic bubble" >> >> Here are a few good links: >> >> http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn10=US03887905 >> http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US03887905__ >> http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04151602__&language=en >> http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04556583__&language=en >> >> There are also links inside the patent server to relating patents. >> >> Pretty interesting. >> >> Regards, Stefan. >> -- >> Hartmann Multimedia Service >> Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >> WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net www.overunity.com >> email: harti@harti.com > >When I applied for my USA patents, we did a "patent search" and found *lot* > >of paptents with respect to magnetic bubbles, but none which related in any > >way to using hard magnetic bubbles to move the material in which they >occur. > >I will look at the links you gave above. > >Bob Gray > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net www.overunity.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 16:56:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA15012; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:56:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:56:01 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:58:46 +0100 Message-Id: <199903040058.BAA01985@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Prof. Sapogin answers Chernetski question Resent-Message-ID: <"eKXqF.0.Qg3.VeTts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>From madi!cnf!madi.msk.su!cnf.madi.msk.su!sapogin@kremvax.demos.su Mon Mar 01 18:53:10 1999 >To: harti@harti.com >Organization: CNF >Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:00:46 +0300 (MSK) >From: "Lev G. Sapogin" >Subject: some remarks >Lines: 41 > > Dear Stefan Hartmann, >Thank you for good attention. For remember some hystory: >Before, when Alexander Chernetsky (A.C.) was lived (now he is died) I >was a member Scientific Commission from Nuclear Department >our Goverment. If I remember (may be mistake in a data) >in 1963-65 years we investigate (check) scientific job A.C. >In that time he had explained pollutions of energy (overunity) >by nuclear reaction in LiD plasma only, but netrons and tritium >we didn't see. All members our commission solve that scientific >experimental results of A.C. was experimental mistake. >With other hand in that times I did not had my unitary quantum >theory and did not had a reason for positive opinion. Now very much >times were passed and my position is change. >Now I have some attempt reply in your questions. >1.Spikes occur, when current of gaz discharge is a very big. >2.May be better use heavy gaz, for example Ne,Ar,Hg(vapor). >3.Pressure levels may be some mm Hg (0.001 Patmospher). >4.Fluorescent tube have a very small cathod (electrode) and it >quickly destroy for a big current. May be it is a better use a normal >neon tube (lamp). >5.Current level of this pulse must be more 10 A/cm2. >6.Chernetsky effect don't related with chemical processes. >7.At last, no any dangerous for use higher driving Voltages >in the range of 2-5 kV. Please remember, that ordinary TV >use more 25-40 kV. (X-ray is very very small). >8.Sorry, but I am mathematic only (theorist) and did not maked >any experiments. >I think that you have road in right direction!!! Can you correspond >me late about your investigations? >Sincerely yours > >Professor Lev G.Sapogin >Head Physics Department >Technical University (MADI) >Leningradsky pr.64, A-319, >125829,GSP,Moscow,Russia. >phone 07-095-1550492 (office) > 07-095-1550390 (secretary) > 07-095-1510331 (fax) > 07-095-5931610 (home, after voice also fax) >E-mail:sapogin@cnf.madi.msk.su > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net www.overunity.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 17:12:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19729; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:12:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:12:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 02:15:08 +0100 Message-Id: <199903040115.CAA02294@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Robert Gray From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble , Sweet VTA worked this way.. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"uVFZx2.0.6q4.ltTts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The VTA consists of two 4" X 6" X .5" grade 5 or grade 8 ferrite magnets spaced 3 inches apart in the attractive orienta- tion, with the output and drive coils in between. The output coils are wound with 20 gage magnet wire. Their axis is parallel to the magnetic lines of force between the two magnets. The two drive (or excitation) coil axes are positioned at 90 degrees to the output coil axis. The VTA excitation coils may be driven by the VTA output voltage or a separate sinewave oscillator source. I found this at: http://waami.avmz.uni-wuppertal.de/www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/sweetvta.html best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net www.overunity.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 17:32:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26428; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:32:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:32:16 -0800 Message-ID: <36DDE4EC.6C7B8796@servtech.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 20:42:04 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Hartmann CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubbles for Sweet VTA... References: <199903040047.BAA01764@ns.b.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f0NH-3.0.jS6.UAUts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Please read this: > > http://keelynet.com/energy/vtakey.htm > Alan Dubla īs site > http://www.space-research.com/~ajdubla/vta > mentioned > is not responding in this moment. > That was the guy who already "shooted" > magnetic bubbles via his pulser coils > into Barrium Ferrite material ! > Alan Dubla site is where I first ran into "magnetic bubbles" w.r.t. Sweets work! From there I went to the library. Alan's work, though, shows *large* magnetic bubbles. These are not the same "kind" of magnetic bubbles I am talking about as far as I can tell.) I need to load a hard magnetic bubble in *each* particle of the magnet. Alan's work looks like he puts one magnetic bubble consisting of many thousands of particles which make up the one magnet. I just looked at the other link you gave. It mentions that the magnetic bubble in the ferrite magnet was seen to *move*. So maybe I am all wet on insisting that the magnetic bubbles need to be in each particle of the magnet. This is were lots of experimentation is needed!! Can these big, multi-particle magnetic bubbles be turned into *hard* magnetic bubbles??? That is, do they move off at an angle to the applied field gradient or do they only move along the direction of the field gradient? Can other *large* patterns be programmed into the magnetic material? (Which is close to what Searl, I think, was saying with his printing of a pattern in the magnetic material.) Certianly need more research. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 18:27:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA09679; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:26:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:26:55 -0800 Message-ID: <002501be65e8$27e6ae80$ae3284ce@aj98> From: "AJ Dubla" To: Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubbles for Sweet VTA... Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:38:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DBNw23.0.8N2.lzUts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert, I applaud your work. I am still analyzing it, but so far it looks very good. I have built a couple magnetizers so far. My latest packs about 450 joules, or 450 * 250 = 112500 ampere-turns. It's powerful enough to snap a magnet field anywhere on the magnet faces of a 4X6X.5 (inch) SrFe ceramic. It's a descent amount of power with a simple tank circuit using a heavy NTE switching transistor through a 1 ohm coil. I get about 100 shots at full power through a coil before the epoxy breaks up. I'm am very happy to see more interest in the area of magnet bubbles. My research has been slow lately because I can't find a place to but small quantities of large block BaFe magnets. I have created over a hundred bubbles in ceramic magnets from small rectangles to large rings, it's really an interesting phenomena to experiment with. The real test though will be when I locate real BaFe magnet blocks. While I'm embarrassed my site is lame and hasn't been updated in a long time, it's been moved to www.primenet.com/~ajdubla/vta Regards, Alan Dubla -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gray To: Stefan Hartmann Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 6:34 PM Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubbles for Sweet VTA... > > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >> Please read this: >> >> http://keelynet.com/energy/vtakey.htm >> Alan Dubla īs site >> http://www.space-research.com/~ajdubla/vta >> mentioned >> is not responding in this moment. >> That was the guy who already "shooted" >> magnetic bubbles via his pulser coils >> into Barrium Ferrite material ! >> > >Alan Dubla site is where I first ran into "magnetic bubbles" w.r.t. >Sweets work! From there I went to the library. > >Alan's work, though, shows *large* magnetic bubbles. These are not >the same "kind" of magnetic bubbles I am talking about as far as >I can tell.) I need to load a hard magnetic bubble in *each* particle >of the magnet. Alan's work looks like he puts one magnetic bubble >consisting of many thousands of particles which make up the one magnet. > >I just looked at the other link you gave. It mentions that the magnetic >bubble in the ferrite magnet was seen to *move*. So maybe I am >all wet on insisting that the magnetic bubbles need to be in each >particle of the magnet. This is were lots of experimentation is needed!! >Can these big, multi-particle magnetic bubbles be turned into *hard* >magnetic bubbles??? That is, do they move off at an angle to the >applied field gradient or do they only move along the direction of the >field gradient? > >Can other *large* patterns be programmed into the magnetic material? >(Which is close to what Searl, I think, was saying with his printing >of a pattern in the magnetic material.) > >Certianly need more research. > >Bob Gray > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 21:37:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA32061; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 21:37:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 21:37:43 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990303212506.219f2154@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 21:25:06 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Generator coils In-Reply-To: <15170-36DDAAFF-279@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"FYY1L.0.pq7.bmXts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:34 PM 3/3/99 -0500, you wrote: > What factors are considered when building a coil for a generator. > Say I would like to wind a coil to produce 24 volts AC with as much >current as possible. I start with a half inch square neo magnet. Now I >assume the iron core must match this on it's facing end.Now how long >must the core be? Does thicker gauge wire produce more current? I >realize RPM produces more voltage,How many turns of wire and of what >gauge if I had RPMS at 2,000. Is there a formula? Yes and there are many books written on generator and alternator design. You can search for titles like "Electrical Machines". What configuration are you thinking of? I would start with the formula for induced voltage in a loop = -change of flux with respect to time. Flux = B field (normal)* area. Then you can figure out the number of turns required. The current is a result of the net voltage (Current in the coils also produces a magnetic field) and Ohm's law for thr circuit. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 3 22:22:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15839; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:20:45 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:20:45 -0800 (PST) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <704a2ba7.36de25de@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:19:10 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Another simple question-- Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Resent-Message-ID: <"ok-651.0.Jt3.vOYts"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/2/99 11:06:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << > If I have an electron and a positive ion separated by some distance and >release them and they move toward each other: if this takes place in a >constant magnetic field and the motion is perpendicular to the field, is there >a net force on the particles??? I would say yes for each and both, as the "conventional" current for both the electron and ion is the same direction. > Two points: 1) I think this is in fact at least related to free energy >and if the answer is "yes" I will explain why. 2) The "obvious" answer of >yes may not be as obvious as it seems because the changing electric field >between the electron and ion as they move toward each other constitute a >displacement current. How real is the displacement current in a vacuum where this may be happening? How would any force vector from the electric field (in a line between the 2 particles) cancel the magnetic force perpendicular to that direction? -Dave >> I tend to agree with your comments, Dave, but there seems to be problems. If a changing electric field does not experience a force from a magnetic field (it would have to be the charges which created the field which actually feel the force), then does a changing electric field create a magnetic field? I think Maxwell's equations and electromagnetic radiation in general indicate the answer to the latter question is yes. BUT, if the changing field does not experience a force in a magnetic field then an interesting propulsion system is possible: take a small loop of wire with an alternating current source and parallel plate capacitor included in the loop. The magnetic field from the current causes an outward force on every part of the loop except in the middle of the capacitor. So there is a net force on the loop in one direction. But if so it is not clear how we can do this and still conserve linear momentum -- and some physicists are kind of closed-minded about that . And it would seem if the changing electric field both experiences a force in a magnetic field and creates a field then the answer to my original problem is no, an electron and ion moving toward each other do not feel a net force from a perpendicular magnetic field. That's kind of tough to believe also, so I'm interested in other ideas and comments. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 02:11:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA13247; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 02:11:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 02:11:13 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Winds Message-Id: <920542246.27555.77@excite.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 02:10:46 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.37 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"4DvRW.0.uE3.0nbts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Winds have taken there toll. Roofs ripped offf in Ohio. hdn _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 04:24:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA28146; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 04:24:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 04:24:43 -0800 Message-ID: <36DE7DDE.5F273B0@servtech.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 07:34:38 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble References: <199903040115.CAA02294@ns.b.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Me6fN1.0.ht6.Akdts"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AJ Dubla wrote: > Robert, I applaud your work. I am still analyzing it, but so far it looks > very good. > Thanks... It was the info on your page that got be started on magnetic bubbles. > > I have built a couple magnetizers so far. My latest packs about 450 joules, > or 450 * 250 = 112500 ampere-turns. It's powerful enough to snap a magnet > field anywhere on the magnet faces of a 4X6X.5 (inch) SrFe ceramic. It's a > descent amount of power with a simple tank circuit using a heavy NTE > switching transistor through a 1 ohm coil. I get about 100 shots at full > power through a coil before the epoxy breaks up. > What is the rise time of the pulses. According to the papers I have read I need rise times of approx 1 microsecond. And I need more than just one pulse per magnetic. You can change a magnetic bubble into a hard magnetic bubble by multiple pulses. Have you cooled your magents? > > I'm am very happy to see more interest in the area of magnet bubbles. My > research has been slow lately because I can't find a place to but small > quantities of large block BaFe magnets. I have created over a hundred > bubbles in ceramic magnets from small rectangles to large rings, it's really > an interesting phenomena to experiment with. The real test though will be > when I locate real BaFe magnet blocks. > I got my BaFe magnets from Taparia Magnetics. Their web page is at http://www.taparia.com/tmpl/index.html I don't see the magnets list on their web page right now, but I know they have or can get all kinds of BaFe magnets. And they accept small orders (small = $80.00 which is one of my orders from them.) > > While I'm embarrassed my site is lame and hasn't been updated in a long > time, it's been moved to www.primenet.com/~ajdubla/vta > > Regards, > > Alan Dubla > I'd love to hear more about what you are doing, attempting to do, etc. As well as a "sanity" check on the research I have done... Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 04:56:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA17931; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 04:56:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 04:56:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00e701be663d$f5a63020$591a0fcb@gsawyer> Reply-To: "Glenville T. Sawyer" From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" To: Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:12:38 +1030 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"Pb5RB.0.4O4.mBets"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Glenville T. Sawyer - South Australia Theatre, Concert Lighting, Special Effects, Props. & more ! Embedded Control systems for Theatrical & other Applications http://gsawyer.mtx.net/ Hi there, I offered to pass on the URL of the "Garrett" Hydro-carby' Patent to "Pop79" but unfortunately I have lost my "favorites" list - could someone please post the URL for this one again, I went there - but cannot (at present access my Fav-list. ( Think it was somewhere inside "keelyney" - but Not Sure ). Thanks. Glenville. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 08:06:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA13140; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:06:29 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:06:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903041606.NAA01877@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Improving To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:06:14 -2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: VTA & Magnetic Bubbles Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"m97Lf3.0.CD3.3-gts"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 02:15:08 +0100 > From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) > Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble , Sweet VTA worked this way.. > The VTA consists of two 4" X 6" X .5" grade 5 or grade 8 > ferrite magnets spaced 3 inches apart in the attractive orienta- > tion, with the output and drive coils in between. The output coils > are wound with 20 gage magnet wire. Their axis is parallel to the > magnetic lines of force between the two magnets. The two drive (or > excitation) coil axes are positioned at 90 degrees to the output coil > axis. The VTA excitation coils may be driven by the VTA output > voltage or a separate sinewave oscillator source. > > > I found this at: > > http://waami.avmz.uni-wuppertal.de/www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/sweetvta.html > > best regards, Stefan. > > --------------------------- It is interesting to note that the driving coils axis aren't parallel to the lines of force between the two magnets. By which ways those coils drive the magnets ? I guess the key for the VTA operation could be just the input coil drive signal. Take a look at this file for some interesting ideas : http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/prodwav.htm --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 13:47:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00525; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:47:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:47:08 -0800 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:43:30 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:46:56 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:31:14 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Q: ???Re: Electrogravitics update In-reply-to: To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:43:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1949ZXUWNW17Z X400-MTS-identifier: [;03346140309991/3571473@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"8cFtH2.0.68.Rzlts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > 1] Jean Naudin has my complete respects ... a "walk it... not > talk it" guy... he does stuff! > Q: > What does this ion wind motor have to do with electro gravitics? John, The basic unit is a free swinging capacitor, when properly setup it will move in a specific direction. Kind of like an impulse drive. Tie several together, tethered about an axis and you have a spin motor. At least I think that's what I interpreted from Jean's website, Jean? Bill webriggs@concentric.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 15:32:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21054; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:31:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:31:27 -0800 Message-ID: <36DF181B.FD9877AB@harti.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 00:32:44 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Robert J. Burkholder" , Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy Subject: Re: Newman motor analysis... References: <199903041340.IAA09482@rjbpc.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4Bxb82.0.k85.EVnts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Robert J. Burkholder" wrote: > > Stephan, > > > Did you use diodes as you describe it down here ? > > > > Just donīt use diodes. > > > > The voltage must be able to go high, until the spark appears and > > then you will see the negative current spike, when > > you have the right commutator contact materials ! > > I've done all my tests with and without diodes. Still no back-current spikes. > Have you been able to see the current spikes using just a coil and no rotor? Yes, indeed ! Use carbon brush on iron contacts and then there will be a spike ! You must pay attention, how fast you slide off the brush from the iron contact, so that it makes this "zipping" sound (hissing sound spark gap) The faster the better. The arc should still jump 5 mm when you slide off the brush from the contact, then the negative spike occurs. >I > believe your web site showed scope traces when you manually broke the coil > circuit. Yes, it has nothing to do with the rotating magnet. Maybe only the spikes are bigger with a rotating magnet. >If the current spikes are still present, the back-EMF of the rotor > has nothing to do with the OU effect (other than harness it mechanically). Right. > > I'll try a higher inductance coil next time. Maybe even an ignition coil from > an automobile. Yes, try this one and let me know. Regards, Stefan. > > Regards, > Bob -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 16:53:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA20722; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:52:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:52:59 -0800 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990304134612.00914490@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 13:46:12 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: anomolous heat:anomolous radiations In-Reply-To: <004001be5ed9$d4f82920$a7ec060c@dlackey> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HfERl.0.h35.hhots"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, this is much to the point. The differenciation of hydroxyl compounds, is gaining extra heat form the material. Bond force energy that is liberated directly fron the structures themselvs. all materials act in this maner, and are easily grouped into reactive groups. My studie has long been do catagorize these realationships and establish a new elimental chart, referancing these conditions. Or to do the least, produce a table likened to the specific heat tables of conventoinal thermal dynamics. all the best TR Knudtson Getting old though, hope to get this work done soon. At 10:08 PM 2/22/99 -0500, you wrote: >Maybe there's a connection between radioactivity from the radioactive >elements >and the heat we're finding in the rare earth materials, (platinum, etc)... > > >From... > >http://soteria.com/brown/docs/space.htm > > >Abstract: > >The discovery by Charles Francis Brush of an unexplained heating effect in >certain materials is strikingly reminiscent of the discovery of >radioactivity by Henri Becquerel which led to the isolation of radium by the >Curies. Recent studies have indicated a certain parallelism between the >radioactive elements and the rare earth elements, revealing the possibility >of a spontaneous release of energy (in this instance in the form of heat >alone) by the rare earth elements. > >Thus, the newly discovered "thermoactivity" may bear the same relationship >with the rare earth elements as "radioactivity" bears with the radioactive >elements. In all probability the source of the energy represented in >thermoactivity will be found in the complex unstable electronic shells of >the rare earth atoms, and not in the nuclei as in radioactivity. > >The anomalous gravitational properties of the rare earth elements and their >wide-spread but tenuous occurrence in nature point to other parallels with >the radioactive elements such as decay of activity and critical limits of >mass. > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 17:00:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA15424; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:59:02 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:59:02 -0800 (PST) From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990304132320.00914be0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 13:23:20 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen car In-Reply-To: <199903040001.KAA22487@lebunka.ion.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JVcEu3.0.tm3.Inots"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Far from a hazard, Nitrus oxides are formen in the naturla combustion of hydrides in the boddd of out boddies. as sacarides are broken down NOs are formed. these NOs cause vascular dialation of the down stream blood vessels, the is allows for the sympathetic controll of blood flow by the human body, as the feed side of the blood is under constant pressure, the larger diamater vessles down stream aloow for flow to the negaive pressure zone down stream fron the combustion site. say in a muscle. Tis way the bodies blood flow is a simple self regulating system, neding only a source of constant pressure,(the heart) anf the dilitation effects of Nitrogen Oxides. The research leading to the Viagra pill, is the foundation for this data. Check out the web sites of the developers. Combustion is combustion is combustion, a bad word for the Hydroxyl energy system, but is ia using this system that all life can happen and grow. All the best, TR Knudtson At 09:56 AM 3/4/99 +1000, you wrote: >Here is a cut n paste from someone from the aus.cars newsgroup: > >The actual reaction is: > >2 x H2 + O2 --> 2 x H2O > >ie: 2 Hydrogen molecules plus one Oxygen molecule produces 2 >water >molecules. > >This reaction is not the problem. It produces a large amount of heat >which causes the water vapour to expand. This gives the pressure >on >the piston to enable the car to proceed. > >However, the intense heat and pressure in the combustion chamber >causes a small amount of Nitrogen in the air to oxidise as well. > >Of course, it is some time since I did my 1st year chemistry at uni, >and I could be quite wrong, although I'm pretty certain that the >oxidation of Hydrogen is exothermic. > >Certainly, the bit about the oxidation of nitrogen is correct. > >This also happens in petrol engines (and diesels as well). Petrol >engines have the further problem that the hydrocarbons in the petrol >do not always burn completely, and the combustion process >produces a >cocktail of (mostly noxious) carbon-oxygen-nitrogen compounds. > >From, > Paul (Quantum Business Systems) > www.quantumsystems.com.au > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 17:39:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00061; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:38:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:38:51 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:38:51 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft Resent-Message-ID: <"dVI9I1.0.s.gMpts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://fouchemedia.com/arap/speech.htm The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft, (by Ed Fouche) A very important speech given by Ed Fouche to the 1998 Summer Sessions at the International UFO Congress, describing the 200 foot across (600 foot operational model?) triangular UFO "anti-gravity" craft being built and tested in area S-4 (cf - Bob Lazar) inside Area 51 in Nevada. Use "FIND" to scan down for "TR-3B". Supposedly uses a heated mercury vortex to offset gravity "mass". Details included. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 18:01:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA07808; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:01:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:01:08 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:53:07 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft Resent-Message-ID: <"5bLXN2.0.mv1.Xhpts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Patrick - > Supposedly uses a heated mercury vortex to offset > gravity "mass". So it's a siddley type vimana. Always wondered how that worked. Who is Ed Fouche? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 18:53:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22905; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:53:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:53:30 -0800 Message-ID: <002201be66b5$0d2fc220$913784ce@aj98> From: "AJ Dubla" To: Subject: Re: Magnetic Bubble Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:05:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZB0Xp1.0.ob5.fSqts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert, -snip- >> I have built a couple magnetizers so far. My latest packs about 450 joules, >> or 450 * 250 = 112500 ampere-turns. It's powerful enough to snap a magnet >> field anywhere on the magnet faces of a 4X6X.5 (inch) SrFe ceramic. It's a >> descent amount of power with a simple tank circuit using a heavy NTE >> switching transistor through a 1 ohm coil. I get about 100 shots at full >> power through a coil before the epoxy breaks up. >> > >What is the rise time of the pulses. According to the papers I have read >I need rise times of approx 1 microsecond. And I need more than just one >pulse per magnetic. You can change a magnetic bubble into a hard magnetic >bubble by multiple pulses. Have you cooled your magents? The rise and fall times are as quick as I can make them, that's what I've found works the best. I have not experimented with making 'hard bubbles' or cooling my magnets; I've been focussing solely on trying to make an induced oscillation stick. >I got my BaFe magnets from Taparia Magnetics. Their web page is at >http://www.taparia.com/tmpl/index.html >I don't see the magnets list on their web page right now, but I know they >have or can get all kinds of BaFe magnets. And they accept small orders >(small = $80.00 which is one of my orders from them.) Great! Thanks, I've already submitted an inquiry. I have purchased so many magnets that were Sr instead of Ba. Regards, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 19:02:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25833; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:02:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:02:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990304184635.281f2528@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 18:46:35 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Another simple question-- In-Reply-To: <704a2ba7.36de25de@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VC8d31.0.YJ6.paqts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 01:19 AM 3/4/99 EST, you wrote: >I tend to agree with your comments, Dave, but there seems to be problems. If >a changing electric field does not experience a force from a magnetic field >(it would have to be the charges which created the field which actually feel >the force), then does a changing electric field create a magnetic field? I >think Maxwell's equations and electromagnetic radiation in general indicate >the answer to the latter question is yes. Yes, though some say the source charges/currents are the cause of both. But I've never heard of anyone filtering out the varying electric field and leaving the magnetic field, as the filtering requires additional charges/currents. > > BUT, if the changing field does not experience a force in a magnetic field >then an interesting propulsion system is possible: take a small loop of wire >with an alternating current source and parallel plate capacitor included in >the loop. The magnetic field from the current causes an outward force on >every part of the loop except in the middle of the capacitor. So there is a >net force on the loop in one direction. But if so it is not clear how we can >do this and still conserve linear momentum -- and some physicists are kind >of closed-minded about that . > And it would seem if the changing electric field both experiences a force >in a magnetic field and creates a field then the answer to my original problem >is no, an electron and ion moving toward each other do not feel a net force >from a perpendicular magnetic field. That's kind of tough to believe also, so >I'm interested in other ideas and comments. > Have you thought of any experiments? Just an electron stream experiences a force, as demonstrated by a magnet and a CRT screen. Would an electrolytic solution be a suitable example of a conductor where there are + and negative ions. I quess there are negative ions, not "bare" electrons here. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 19:26:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA00993; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:26:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:26:44 -0800 Message-ID: <003401be66b7$fb436960$c95cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:53:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"gMqBD1.0.QF.qxqts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Reality check time. >to scan down for "TR-3B". Supposedly uses a heated mercury vortex to >offset gravity "mass". Details included. Heated? That's not what it says on the web page. Here: "The plasma was cooled to super-conductive temperatures, rotated at 45 thousand revolutions per minute, and pressurized at 150 thousand atmospheres." OK, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but at superconductive temperatures (in the single digits Kelvin for mercury, aren't they?) and 150000 atm, it ought to be a solid rather than a plasma, right? Then later, he writes: "The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin" 150 Kelvin is still way below the melting point of Hg, and now we're up to 250000 atm. -- home page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 21:48:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04120; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:48:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:48:16 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990305161906.007ba100@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 16:19:06 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Photo wrongfully used Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fDog-.0.901.U0tts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have placed this emial at my energy 21 newsgroup I have been informed that the picture at www.geocities.com/researchTriangle/Lab/1135 showing a doudle helix display that I did not have the credit given to photographer or to keelynet to where apparently the photo come from without my knowledge of its original source. The photo interested me and having no knowledge of the original source used it to demonstrate that we live in a world where the helix appears in nature in lots of places. I have contracted keely net and asked for the credit details so that it can be added to that page. I ask in future that any photographs that are sent to me carry this information so that situation does not occur again. Thanks Geoff Ps the photo was indeed changed but that was to make it better and easier to see ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html last updated November 1998 my postal address as follows Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Energy 21 website now resides at http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html Bright Sparks website. http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 4 22:23:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14232; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:23:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:23:50 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:23:15 EST To: newman-l@emachine.com, edk@rayflex.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: To Greg, (what is spin balance?) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"BplZD1.0.HU3.sXtts"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/4/99 1:47:50 PM Central Standard Time, gmeast@pacbell.net writes: > Hi, > > What in the heck is 'spin balance'? This is a new term to me. Is this > a true technical reference or someone's pet name for something? > > Thanx, > > Greg East > Greg, Look at Stefan's site under new updates and scroll down to the Werjefelt papers. I had trouble pulling them up today, but maybe you will have better luck. Also try my web site and see the Ecklin device with spin balance system. I will try to put a site up just to help explain the spin balance system developed by Bertil Werjefelt. Here are the sites I spoke of. For Stefan, http://www.overunity.de/over.htm or Overunity homepage My site, HLafonte's Page or http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/page2/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 5 16:09:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA14784; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:09:21 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:09:21 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRY/CQ0+xuaJO5cbt4Q39menzWx3wIUa9ZK0Xj3BusHRq12yHHC/LyM7WM= From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:08:25 -0500 (EST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: test Message-ID: <20281-36E071F9-791@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"JUEZ63.0.tc3.l87us"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 5 16:43:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA11586; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:42:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:42:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199903060042.SAA29222@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: test Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:41:07 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Pa4q02.0.xq2.-d7us"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test OK ---------- > From: R B > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: test > Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 6:08 PM > > test > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 5 23:22:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01264; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:21:56 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:21:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E0D7AC.97A2EF8A@harti.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:22:20 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lev G. Sapogin" Subject: Re: about Correa problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eyWgp1.0.fJ.DUDus"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Lev G. Sapogin" wrote: > > Dear Stefan Hartman. > I received your messages. Thank you. > You have a question: > Will heavier gas like HG gas need less current density ? > My reply: You must have a maxima current density. Heavier > gas means that positive ions have a very big masses, negative > ions is absent (electrons only). You must obtained positive > results for short spikies of current. Of course, form potential > for positive ions have a some influence in that processes. > Sincerely yours > > Professor Lev G.Sapogin > Head Physics Department > Technical University (MADI) > Leningradsky pr.64, A-319, > 125829,GSP,Moscow,Russia. > phone 07-095-1550492 (office) > 07-095-1550390 (secretary) > 07-095-1510331 (fax) > 07-095-5931610 (home, after voice also fax) > E-mail:sapogin@cnf.madi.msk.su Dear Professor Lev G.Sapogin, thanks a lot for this additional info. I will soon try to experiment with it and let you know. Thanks again. Regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 00:15:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA03112; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:15:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:15:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01be67a9$8ab4ef00$8cb4aad0@r.davis> Reply-To: "R. A. Davis" From: "R. A. Davis" To: Subject: Re: test Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 03:15:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"D2_H4.0.Xm.dGEus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: R B To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 19:12 RAD Subject: test test OK From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 03:29:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA30083; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 03:29:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 03:29:02 -0800 Message-ID: <001c01be67c5$24f66ba0$312bd3cf@default> From: "Robin Dye: The Credit Zone/VisionQuest Productions" To: Subject: Antigravity/free energy research Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 04:33:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"1fGAK2.0.tL7.-5Hus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Forward from Exotic Research...... Robin Dye VisionQuest Productions _______________________________________________________________ REAL DOWN-TO-EARTH ANTIGRAVITY/FREE ENERGY RESEARCH UNVEILED Tonight (MARCH 6) between 7pm - 2am PST/10pm-5am EST DAN LaROCHELLE will be a guest on the Laura Lee Radio Show broadcast out of Seattle, syndicated Nationally, and simulcast on the INTERNET at http://www.lauralee.com Dan will be discussing his presentation at the upcoming Seattle Exotic Research Conference (March 25-28, 1999 see http://www.exoticresearch.com/events/program/prgframe.htm ) This technology was developed by David Hamel and can built by anyone who is mechanically inclined! YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A FORTUNE 500 COMPANY TO BE ENERGY INDEPENDENT OR TO EXPERIMENT WITH ANTIGRAVITY!!! Dan will give an overview on this exciting new technology that even amateurs can do at home... If you do not have RealAudio, go to Laura's site and install a FREE copy before the show. I did last week for the first time,,, now I'm hooked. It was easy and the signal is extremely clear. The Laura Lee show will be highlighting speakers at the upcoming Exotic Research Conference in Seattle. Physicists, engineers and others who have determined that antigravity and free energy devices cannot exist are forewarned that attending an Exotic Research Conference can result in heightened blood pressure, anxiety attacks, etc as many of the paradigms of current scientific dogma are shattered by the irrefutable march of experimentation, demonstration and independent verification. A final word on the conference... Preregister TODAY!!! Seats are going fast and we have less than 200 left!!!! Insure that you can see this show by preregistering.... and members get discounts as well!!! CALL (520) 424-3581 or go to http://www.exoticresearch.com/events/program/prgframe.htm to register ONLINE!!! At the very least, you should become a member and get our magazine to stay current with this exciting technology! More information on the hottest talk radio site on the web --the Laura Lee Show-- follows. Steve Elswick Publisher, Exotic Research THE LAURA LEE SHOW IS ON BOTH RADIO AND THE INTERNET Here are the details: SATURDAY NIGHTS: 7pm - 2am PST/10pm-5am EST Saturday's Laura Lee Show is broadcast on radio stations around the country. For a list of stations, go to www.lauralee.com/stations.htm During our live show hours, this show is also webcast on a new talk show network on the Internet, www.talkspot.com. We are on the Explorations Channel. Our radio show is also carried on the live webcast of several of our affiliates. To join these webcasts, click the "Webcast" button off our front page at www.lauralee.com, or go to www.lauralee.com/aud_live.htm WEEKNIGHT INTERNET SHOW: Monday thru Friday 9-11pm PST/12pm-2am EST We are also pleased to announce new Laura Lee Show hours during the week! We have joined Talkspot to host a two-hour, weeknight show -- conducted just as the radio show is, as conversation (not typed). We are having a great time with it, as we interact with the chat room, and make full use of the talkspot features: view screens for images, documents, polls, and live web cam. The hours may change slightly, so check in for current hours and upcoming guests and topics at www.lauralee.com/online.htm AUDIO ARCHIVES You'll find over a year's worth of audio archives on our website. They are formatted on Real Audio. Archives are listed chronologically (we are working on alphabetical listings) and linked at www.lauralee.com/archives.htm LAURA LEE SHOW WEEKLY ENEWS Subscribe to our Enews to receive a weekly email message detailing what's coming up for the entire week, and announcing new features, at www.lauralee.com/cfdocs/laura/mailinglist/enduse.cfm WRITE TO USAT: lauralee@lauralee.com DRAWING FOR FREE BOOKS The Radio Bookstore sponsors a weekly drawing for free books, magazines, tapes. To enter, go to www.lauralee.com/contest.htm Random drawing winners are posted at: www.lauralee.com/winners.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 09:24:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA02061; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:24:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:24:03 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:15:26 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: Freengr List , Patrick Bailey Subject: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pTIR23.0.4W.oIMus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9199 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What is this about? On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Patrick Bailey wrote: > http://fouchemedia.com/arap/speech.htm > > The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft, (by Ed Fouche) > > A very important speech given by Ed Fouche to the 1998 Summer Sessions at > the International UFO Congress, describing the 200 foot across (600 foot > operational model?) triangular UFO "anti-gravity" craft being built and > tested in area S-4 (cf - Bob Lazar) inside Area 51 in Nevada. Use "FIND" > to scan down for "TR-3B". Supposedly uses a heated mercury vortex to > offset gravity "mass". Details included. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 11:05:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA17981; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:05:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:05:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36E17C42.CF7C0447@inquo.net> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 12:04:35 -0700 From: Mancuso Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Philip Kramer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ROqbc1.0.sO4.-nNus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All A heard that a person by the name of Philip Kramer who played in the band called Iron Butterfly is missing. The strange part is that this person developed a math formula that allows for communications to travel faster then the speed of light. I have been trying to research this rumor to find more facts. If anyone has any information, please let me know. Michael Mancuso mancuso@inquo.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 11:16:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20979; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:16:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:16:01 -0800 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <2fea7bd.36e17eca@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:15:22 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Philip Kramer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"VfzrW3.0.i75.nxNus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Art Bell did a big piece on him a couple of times. Much of what I heard sounded like a load of dingoes kidneys to me, but you can get an archive version of the show off a link on Arts website (www.artbell.com) I'm sure. Anyway, they called Maj. Ed "Dr Gloom and Doom" Dames into do a Remote Viewing of the whole matter. According to Dames, Kramer and his van are at the bottom of a lake somewhere in like Wyoming or some place like that. Personally, I think Kramer took a little too much acid in the 60s, flaked out and when he could fake his way as a mathematician anymore bailed out. He's probably living in a shack in Montana, not too far from where the Unabomber did. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 13:36:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22482; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:36:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:36:24 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:27:49 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l , John Schnurer Subject: Comments on .... Q: ???Re: Electrogravitics update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8sBTl3.0.7V5.O_Pus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Bill and Fre.... and Vo and other folks... I have a personal and abiding interest in gravity and gravity modification. When I see contributions to "electro gravitics" I naturally am excited to interest. My basic question stands.... which is 'Flagged" below; On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > John Schnurer wrote: > > > > 1] Jean Naudin has my complete respects ... a "walk it... not > > talk it" guy... he does stuff! ________________ FLAG ___________ > > Q: > > What does this ion wind motor have to do with electro gravitics? > ___________________________________ > John, > > The basic unit is a free swinging capacitor, when properly setup it will > move in a specific direction. Kind of like an impulse drive. > > Tie several together, tethered about an axis and you have a spin motor. > This is an ion wind type device..... what does it have to do with electrogravitics? > At least I think that's what I interpreted from Jean's website, Jean? > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > AND: Q: Will someone give a SIMPLE... from the bench "blow by grinding blow" protocol for electro gravitics? I have seen contributions, over the years of some things that don't yield much result for several reasons including but not limited to: The effect ... 1] is too small to overcome artifact 2] is not reproducible 3] is an artifact and not GM, or gravity modification 4] is a simple... but maybe not obvious ... charge or field repulsion and-or attraction SO: Any Electro gravitics a] description first b] experiment c] reproducibility ??? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 13:38:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22836; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:38:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:38:08 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:29:31 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: Rick Monteverde , John Schnurer Subject: SIDDLEY ???Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FI5XU.0.ja5._0Qus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Cool! What the "bleet hawses" is a siddley vimana? ... And, yes... who is ED? On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Patrick - > > > Supposedly uses a heated mercury vortex to offset > > gravity "mass". > > So it's a siddley type vimana. Always wondered how that worked. Who is Ed > Fouche? > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 13:39:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23491; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:39:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:39:29 -0800 Message-ID: <004f01be6819$cda0ef60$115dadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Philip Kramer Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:19:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"vS-oB2.0.sk5.G2Qus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9204 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Personally, I >think Kramer took a little too much acid in the 60s, flaked out and when he >could fake his way as a mathematician anymore bailed out. I don't know about that! Wasn't he designing missile guidance systems? -- home page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 13:41:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24178; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:41:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:41:02 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:32:26 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft In-Reply-To: <003401be66b7$fb436960$c95cadd1@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BmAgR2.0.hv5.i3Qus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jim... and Fre., Jim.... thanks for the de goobery .... Of course we all KNOW everything we read on the net is factual! On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: > Reality check time. > > >to scan down for "TR-3B". Supposedly uses a heated mercury vortex to > >offset gravity "mass". Details included. > > Heated? That's not what it says on the web page. Here: > > "The plasma was cooled to super-conductive temperatures, rotated at 45 thousand > revolutions per minute, and pressurized at 150 thousand atmospheres." > > OK, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but at superconductive temperatures > (in the single digits Kelvin for mercury, aren't they?) and 150000 atm, it ought > to be a solid rather than a plasma, right? > > Then later, he writes: > > "The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a > temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin" > > 150 Kelvin is still way below the melting point of Hg, and now we're up to > 250000 atm. > > -- > home page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 14:34:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21011; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:34:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:34:18 -0800 Message-ID: <36E191D3.9C2631F3@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 14:36:35 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Philip Kramer References: <36E17C42.CF7C0447@inquo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uB_WP1.0.485.frQus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This isn't the same dude that supposedly invented that 'free energy' hyrdogen system for a car is it? Mancuso wrote: > > Hello All > A heard that a person by the name of Philip Kramer who played in the > band called Iron Butterfly is missing. The strange part is that this > person developed a math formula that allows for communications to travel > faster then the speed of light. I have been trying to research this > rumor to find more facts. If anyone has any information, please let me > know. > > Michael Mancuso > mancuso@inquo.net -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 14:44:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27602; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:42:52 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:42:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E19396.702476CF@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 14:44:06 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tw9R42.0.Al6.ezQus"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: wasnt this mentioned in some quasi-fictional conspiracy net file? any one have more credible refs to this? John Schnurer wrote: > > Dear Jim... and Fre., > > Jim.... thanks for the de goobery .... Of course we all KNOW > everything we read on the net is factual! > > On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: > > > Reality check time. > > > > >to scan down for "TR-3B". Supposedly uses a heated mercury vortex to > > >offset gravity "mass". Details included. > > > > Heated? That's not what it says on the web page. Here: > > > > "The plasma was cooled to super-conductive temperatures, rotated at 45 thousand > > revolutions per minute, and pressurized at 150 thousand atmospheres." > > > > OK, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but at superconductive temperatures > > (in the single digits Kelvin for mercury, aren't they?) and 150000 atm, it ought > > to be a solid rather than a plasma, right? > > > > Then later, he writes: > > > > "The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a > > temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin" > > > > 150 Kelvin is still way below the melting point of Hg, and now we're up to > > 250000 atm. > > > > -- > > home page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer > > > > -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 19:11:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25878; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:11:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:11:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36E1EE2B.909F726@inquo.net> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 20:10:35 -0700 From: Mancuso Organization: Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Philip Kramer References: <004f01be6819$cda0ef60$115dadd1@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cD4Nl.0.BK6.cvUus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9208 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What I heard was that he was originally in the band called Iron Butterfly, then he went on to get a education (where I do not know). After that he worked for some company that designed missile guidance, and he played a big part in the design. During this time he came up with a formula, yet to be proven. that does allow for communications to move beyond the speed of light. Then some time in the 90's he disappeared and has yet to be found. There are other details but I am only relaying what I heard. There seems to be some interesting bits of detail about this man that I would like to find more about. I do not know if he is for real. "Jim Shaffer, Jr." wrote: > > Personally, I > >think Kramer took a little too much acid in the 60s, flaked out and when he > >could fake his way as a mathematician anymore bailed out. > > I don't know about that! Wasn't he designing missile guidance systems? > > -- > home page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 20:06:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07324; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:06:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:06:09 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:57:36 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winds In-Reply-To: <920542246.27555.77@excite.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WVSTC2.0.Lo1.miVus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: y Where in Ohio? On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Harvey Norris wrote: > Winds have taken there toll. Roofs ripped offf in Ohio. hdn > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 6 22:21:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA07485; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:21:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:21:23 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winds Message-Id: <920787656.15005.921@excite.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 22:20:56 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.95 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"X4S7r1.0.rq1.ZhXus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:57:36 -0500 (EST), John Schnurer wrote: > y > > Where in Ohio? > > On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Harvey Norris wrote: > > > Winds have taken there toll. Roofs ripped offf in Ohio. hdn > > I had a 24' by 24' car port with galvanized steel tubing encased in spun poly (housing my projects) that came unanchored during the windstorm three days ago in Streetsboro:(Exit 13 Ohio turnpike) Had to call the fire dept to get it off the roof as one side attached to the house acted like a hinge and put the whole thing upside down on the roof. This is not good for my plans HDN > > _______________________________________________________ > > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 7 05:28:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA14549; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 05:28:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 05:28:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199903071328.HAA16337@mw5.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Winds Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 07:20:45 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i2xKQ3.0.EZ3.cxdus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry for your loss. You can thank La Nina. Joe ========================================== ---------- > From: Harvey Norris > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Winds > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 12:20 AM > > On Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:57:36 -0500 (EST), John Schnurer wrote: > > > y > > > > Where in Ohio? > > > > On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Harvey Norris wrote: > > > > > Winds have taken there toll. Roofs ripped offf in Ohio. hdn > > > I had a 24' by 24' car port with galvanized steel tubing encased in spun > poly (housing my projects) that came unanchored during the windstorm three > days ago in Streetsboro:(Exit 13 Ohio turnpike) Had to call the fire dept to > get it off the roof as one side attached to the house acted like a hinge and > put the whole thing upside down on the roof. This is not good for my plans > HDN > > > _______________________________________________________ > > > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 7 20:32:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03724; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:32:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:32:31 -0800 Message-ID: <008401be691c$7b6e9cc0$cafaf0cf@default> From: "mrand@access" To: "Eric Tonkins" Cc: Subject: Re: Hydrogen Car Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:28:23 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xq4dC.0.0w.VBrus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the update. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Eric Tonkins To: mrand@iols.net ; freenrg-1@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 9:18 AM Subject: Re: Hydrogen Car >Sorry, but no news on the Water Car. Fox TV out of the bay area said the show >would air the next day. I taped the news the next day and even stayed up taping >and watching the 10 o'clock news, all for nothing. I've since called the news >office here in town where they rebroadcast the Bay Area's news, but have gotten >nowhere. > >Anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area that could follow up for me locally? > >Till Later, Eric > >"mrand@access" wrote: > >> Hi Eric, >> Any info in the newscast? >> Michael >> >> >Hi all, >> > >> >I don't know what's going on here. But I just saw that our Local Channel 2 >> >here in Reno, NV is going to run a similar story. The anchors said the >> >following in a brief promo: >> >"Are you tired of putting gas in your car, tune in monday and we'll tell >> you >> >about a local inventor who runs his car with tap water." >> > >> >I'll try to catch the broadcast and pass it along to all of you. This is >> >either strange synchronicity or a complex disinformation strategy. My vote >> >is for coincidence. I hope it's a credible story and not just another Fuel >> >Cell story. >> > >> >Till Later, Eric >> >vegan@sprynet.com >> > >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 7 23:32:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04482; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:32:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:32:34 -0800 Message-ID: <36E3617F.4F53370E@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 23:34:55 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: <199903071328.HAA16337@mw5.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JAklV3.0.x51.Iqtus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible Code'? Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing Unified field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that the onlyt extra dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... and then I started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this mysterious embedded code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come are encoded there in, every living beings personal history, etc... well then there should be complete information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact any of those who claimed to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info dissapeared... well could it be found here? thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? Don From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 00:23:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13779; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 00:23:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 00:23:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32CC22A8.128D6815@ccc.bu.aust.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 08:03:36 +1100 From: Cameron Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: <199903071328.HAA16337@mw5.texas.net> <36E3617F.4F53370E@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5xGe_1.0.8N3.fZuus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don J. S. Adams wrote: > What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? > > I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible Code'? > Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing Unified > field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that the onlyt > extra > dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... and > then I > started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this > mysterious embedded > code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come are > encoded there in, > every living beings personal history, etc... well then there should be > complete > information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact any of > those who claimed > to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info > dissapeared... > well could it be found here? > > thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? > > Don Hello all. I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to real facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of the bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and their relationships. Any thoughts? Cam From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 01:43:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02273; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:43:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:43:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199903080943.TAA26561@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 22:36:07 Subject: Re: Photo wrongfully used Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZElJP1.0.QZ.Hlvus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've got your free encyclopoedia. Do you build any of your own stuff? On 5 Mar 99 at 16:19, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost > at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html > Geoff Egel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pop, sweltering away in summer Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, preffered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 01:44:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02356; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:43:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:43:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199903080943.TAA26554@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 22:32:51 Subject: Re: Hydrogen car Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"ozndm.0.da.Plvus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9216 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hmmm, so it's nitrous-oxide? What is that made of? NO? I dont know much about chemistry. Isn't that used as 'laughing-gas'? Isn't that used to get some sort of extra power out of an engine? Not on the topic of normal air... Does pressurised hydrogen and oxygen form water before combustion? Does the combustion of pure hydrogen and oxygen IMPLODE or EXPLODE? Is this NO gas actually pollution? On 4 Mar 99 at 13:23, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > Far from a hazard, Nitrus oxides are formen in the naturla combustion of > hydrides in the boddd of out boddies. as sacarides are broken down NOs are [snip] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pop, sweltering away in summer Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, preffered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 01:44:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02404; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:43:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:43:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199903080943.TAA26585@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:19:12 Subject: Re: Antigravity/free energy research Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"0f4Te3.0.ya.Rlvus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9217 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 6 Mar 99 at 4:33, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: .. > This technology was developed by David Hamel and can built by anyone who is > mechanically inclined! YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A FORTUNE 500 COMPANY TO BE > ENERGY INDEPENDENT OR TO EXPERIMENT WITH ANTIGRAVITY!!! Dan will give an > overview on this exciting new technology that even amateurs can do at > home... .. How about they just send me the details to my email address? ;-) I would love to screw gravity over but I know nothing, and dont know if anyone else knows anything, and use DOS on an 85Mb hard disk so I cant use real audio, so that ends that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pop, sweltering away in summer Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, preffered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 01:55:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03877; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:55:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:55:41 -0800 Message-ID: <36E30D5E.D0A5EEB6@ccc.bu.aust.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:35:58 +1000 From: Cameron Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen car References: <199903080943.TAA26554@lebunka.ion.com.au> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D99928C8E79E46CBE3B02F99" Resent-Message-ID: <"8D9gU3.0.Qy.Twvus"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9218 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------D99928C8E79E46CBE3B02F99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pop wrote: > Hmmm, so it's nitrous-oxide? What is that made of? NO? I dont know > > Does pressurised hydrogen and oxygen form water before combustion? > > Does the combustion of pure hydrogen and oxygen IMPLODE or EXPLODE? Nitrous Oxide is usually NO2e.g. 2N2 + 02 =2NO2 The pure act of combusting 2H2 and O2 produces 2H2O. AFAIK, pressurising them before combustion will only speed up the process. When they combust, a large volume of hydrogen and oxygen gases combines to form a smaller volume of water. So in effect it explodes negatively. it still explodes, but the volume decreases during the combustion process. I am sure this has been covered extensively and more comprehensively by people other than me, and I may (probably :) be wrong..... Hope this helps Cam --------------D99928C8E79E46CBE3B02F99 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Pop wrote:

Hmmm, so it's nitrous-oxide? What is that made of? NO? I dont know

Does pressurised hydrogen and oxygen form water before combustion?

Does the combustion of pure hydrogen and oxygen IMPLODE or EXPLODE?

Nitrous Oxide is usually NO2e.g. 2N2 + 02 =2NO2

The pure act of combusting 2H2 and O2 produces 2H2O. AFAIK, pressurising them before combustion will only speed up the process. When they combust, a large volume of hydrogen and oxygen gases combines to form a smaller volume of water. So in effect it explodes negatively. it still explodes, but the volume decreases during the combustion process. I am sure this has been covered extensively and more comprehensively by people other than me, and I may (probably :) be wrong.....

Hope this helps
Cam --------------D99928C8E79E46CBE3B02F99-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 09:16:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA31481; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:16:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:16:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36E420B6.F4256401@itn.cl> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 14:10:46 -0500 From: Felix Meyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: <199903071328.HAA16337@mw5.texas.net> <36E3617F.4F53370E@telusplanet.net> <32CC22A8.128D6815@ccc.bu.aust.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Kbcvi1.0.oh7.SN0vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9219 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Cameron Maxwell schrieb: > bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and their > relationships. > > Any thoughts? > > Cam Hi CAM : your DATE of the computer is 1997 !!! please correct it Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 09:54:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA09583; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:53:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:53:13 -0800 From: RoConroy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:48:33 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"zRclu2.0.WL2.8w0vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9220 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/8/99 2:24:38 AM Central Standard Time, cameron@ccc.bu.aust.com writes: << I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to real facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of the bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and their relationships. Any thoughts? Cam >> The bible in 1 John 5:8, describes these as water (blue), blood (red), and the spirit (fire (yellow)). These could be juxtaposed to the 3 primary colors from which all other colors can be derived. Or since colors are simply frequencies, based on time and distance, then the structure of all Nature can be broken down into 3 primal lengths. This is what I have done on my WEB page: http://go.ourworld.nu/robert_conroy with a link to specifics on /metaphys.htm I believe the whole blue print for Nature is coded in the 1st 5 books of the bible, encoded with in such things as the desert tabernacle, and the tribe of Israel, YHWH's tent, all being key indicators, such as the 3 fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, plus 12 sons plus the 70 going into Egypt. This balanced by the negative brother of Jacob, Essau, and his 12 sons etc. Such things as the 7 spirits of YHWH and the 7 churches mirrored in the fundamental structure of Nature itself. With a good understanding of the structure of Nature, one should be able to tap into it's underlying energy. Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 10:02:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13082; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:01:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:01:55 -0800 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:59:54 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Another simple question-- Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Resent-Message-ID: <"rF89L3.0.JC3.I21vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9221 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/4/99 7:04:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << Have you thought of any experiments? Just an electron stream experiences a force, as demonstrated by a magnet and a CRT screen. Would an electrolytic solution be a suitable example of a conductor where there are + and negative ions. I quess there are negative ions, not "bare" electrons here. -Dave >> Yes, I have been trying to think of some simple experiment which might indicate what is really going on here, but as yet haven't come up with anything. I'm not sure I underatand electrolysis well enough to interpret any result I might get. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 10:39:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA22603; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:39:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:39:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199903081838.MAA22761@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Another simple question-- Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:37:25 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q1V-s.0.zW5.4b1vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9222 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Electrolytes don't conduct like wire. The electrons hop and bump across the solution. Electrons go one way and metal goes the other way. Ions are present as well as a catalyst, such as a small amount of sulphur. Joe Portman =================== ---------- > From: Keasy@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Another simple question-- > Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 11:59 AM > > In a message dated 3/4/99 7:04:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, > ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > > << Have you thought of any experiments? Just an electron stream experiences a > force, as demonstrated by a magnet and a CRT screen. Would an electrolytic > solution be a suitable example of a conductor where there are + and > negative ions. I quess there are negative ions, not "bare" electrons here. > -Dave >> > Yes, I have been trying to think of some simple experiment which might > indicate what is really going on here, but as yet haven't come up with > anything. I'm not sure I underatand electrolysis well enough to interpret any > result I might get. > > Ken > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 10:56:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28797; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:56:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:56:00 -0800 Message-ID: <000801be6995$37841840$c0b4aad0@r.davis> Reply-To: "R. A. Davis" From: "R. A. Davis" To: Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? &how far off topic are w.... Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:55:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"u-NqZ.0.p17._q1vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9223 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: RoConroy@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:59 RAD Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? >In a message dated 3/8/99 2:24:38 AM Central Standard Time, >cameron@ccc.bu.aust.com writes: > ><< I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to real > facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the > Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity > and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of the > bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and their > relationships. Any thoughts? Cam >> > > The bible in 1 John 5:8, describes these as water (blue), blood (red), >and the spirit (fire (yellow)). These could be juxtaposed to the 3 primary >colors from which all other colors can be derived. Or since colors are simply >frequencies, based on time and distance, then the structure of all Nature can >be broken down into 3 primal lengths. This is what I have done on my WEB >page: http://go.ourworld.nu/robert_conroy with a link to specifics on >/metaphys.htm I believe the whole blue print for Nature is coded in the 1st >5 books of the bible, encoded with in such things as the desert tabernacle, >and the tribe of Israel, YHWH's tent, all being key indicators, such as the 3 >fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, plus 12 sons plus the 70 going into Egypt. >This balanced by the negative brother of Jacob, Essau, and his 12 sons etc. >Such things as the 7 spirits of YHWH and the 7 churches mirrored in the >fundamental structure of Nature itself. With a good understanding of the >structure of Nature, one should be able to tap into it's underlying energy. >Bob > > I would think any insights into the symbolic meanings of the Old Testament would have to be via the Kaballah, since that was the operant system of the patriarchs and prophets who wrote it. (c.f: The Tree Of Life) Regards, RAD From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 11:16:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03076; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:16:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:16:14 -0800 Message-ID: <36E40674.AF4C9252@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 11:18:44 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "R. A. Davis" CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? &how far off topic are w.... References: <000801be6995$37841840$c0b4aad0@r.davis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"en1PM3.0.nl.y72vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9224 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How is Free energy off topic? as far as Q'aballah being THE operant system or ONLY source of symbolic meanings, I'm afraid I can't agree. Of course, one could perceive that to be the case if one was coming from a certain philosophical view such as Gnosticism. But belief systems aren't the issue here, rather a discussion of free energy concepts. According to Eli Rips and others there is specific, detailed information which is relevant for us today which can be found within the Old testament (not the Q'abballah) by using repeatable and consistent search strings via computer software. I've seen some of the formulas and they are pretty darn fascinating! Apparently there is software available... I understand that essentially one could literally enter a phrase relating to 'free energy' and then wait to see what sort of info is returned! Should be simple enough to do. I have not seen any decent critique of Rips' work except for one other mathematician who felt there were problems associated with the formulas. The critic did make some good points and IMHO merits further consideration. However, the point does remain. as pointed out by Drosnin (an atheist) that regardless of the critiques, specific information and tangible results have been found by this method and it remains possibly as the single biggest phenomenon modern man has come across. Its interesting that a number of government agencies, some of which I believe were related to national security, did exhaustive studies on this to try and disprove Rip's findings and yet at the end were baffled and came to the same conclusions. Score one for the other side? ;) Don the cheshire catman > I would think any insights into the symbolic meanings of the Old Testament > would have to be via the Kaballah, since that was the operant system of the > patriarchs and prophets who wrote it. > (c.f: The Tree Of Life) > > Regards, > RAD -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 12:13:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA21367; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:12:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:12:44 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:11:55 -0500 Subject: flywheels Message-ID: <19990308.151157.249.1.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-10,12-13 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David L Tingley Resent-Message-ID: <"OOdgF.0.mD5.xy2vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9225 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I need to locate a source of flywheels for a device I am building. I am thinking about something similar to the flywheels in those little cars that I played with as a child, but I can't remember the name of them. I have daughters and Barbie and toy horses don't have wheels and gears in them. So, aside from taking apart neighbor kid's toys, what is a good way to obtain flywheels? Dave ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/3992/dt.html The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 12:26:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24663; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:25:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:25:51 -0800 From: Charlie Hodgson Message-Id: <199903082023.PAA21513@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> Subject: Re: flywheels To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:23:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: dave.tingley@juno.com In-Reply-To: <19990308.151157.249.1.dave.tingley@juno.com> from "David L Tingley" at Mar 8, 99 03:11:55 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"uIl-p3.0.D16.E93vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9226 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David L Tingley said > > I need to locate a source of flywheels for a device I am building. I am Get a gyroscope at The Nature Company or Natural Wonders > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 15:51:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12859; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:51:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:51:25 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another simple question-- Message-Id: <920937056.10142.771@excite.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 15:50:56 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.107 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"-Hi213.0.q83.y96vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:59:54 EST, Keasy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/4/99 7:04:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, > ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > > << Have you thought of any experiments? Just an electron stream experiences a > force, as demonstrated by a magnet and a CRT screen. Would an electrolytic > solution be a suitable example of a conductor where there are + and > negative ions. I quess there are negative ions, not "bare" electrons here. > -Dave >> > Yes, I have been trying to think of some simple experiment which might > indicate what is really going on here, but as yet haven't come up with > anything. I'm not sure I underatand electrolysis well enough to interpret any > result I might get. > > Ken > >>I can categorically state that a lorentz force can act to increase a current conduction through water alone. These experiments were never carried to that with an electrolyte, although it is imperative that such an experiment take place. See www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 for Experimental Results 1996. I will soon be publishing some results from 1993. Moving backwards in time instead of forward Sincerly HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 17:30:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA15612; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:30:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:30:09 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:29:47 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft Resent-Message-ID: <"8YVWs1.0.mp3.Wc7vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Very good: My fault - I did that... There is a book out by David Childress called "Viamina Aircraft", or something like that - where the translation from ancient Sanscrit describes how to build "flying craft" that were used back then - and they used iron and heated mercury. I just assumed the same thing here. The Germans were also exporting a lot of mercury to the South Atlantic at the end of the war. (!) I also have a problem with only the 89% weight (mass) reduction - why not 100% - and the use of rocket jets would make a lot of noise (for the other 11%), and according to witness who saw the "Pheonix Lights Triangle" up close and personal (about 2 years ago) [not the lights: the Triangle, which was first!] it made zero noise as it (they?) floated overhead. [One winess reported to Peter Davenport (US UFO Reporting Center 800 number, recorded) that the triangle was 5 (five) fist-widths long, fist held at arms length. I have the audiotape...] PB. >Reality check time. > >>to scan down for "TR-3B". Supposedly uses a heated mercury vortex to >>offset gravity "mass". Details included. > >Heated? That's not what it says on the web page. Here: > >"The plasma was cooled to super-conductive temperatures, rotated at 45 thousand >revolutions per minute, and pressurized at 150 thousand atmospheres." > >OK, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but at superconductive temperatures >(in the single digits Kelvin for mercury, aren't they?) and 150000 atm, it >ought >to be a solid rather than a plasma, right? > >Then later, he writes: > >"The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a >temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin" > >150 Kelvin is still way below the melting point of Hg, and now we're up to >250000 atm. > >-- >home page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 17:31:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16147; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:31:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:31:01 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Casey at the bat Message-Id: <920943028.12688.167@excite.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:30:28 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.107 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"aajGV3.0.wx3.Jd7vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9229 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A very unique concept that intersects with mine and seems to validate the lorentz principle is contained in a circuit description contained at the Esoteric Physics Website http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/lfg.htm The first diagram on this page shows a cylindrical electrolysis cell in which the lorentz force on the moving charge carriers is noticed as a vortex motion of the electrolyte. To further this model the magnetic field need not be constant but can be produced in very high frequency by copper magnetic coils. It is known that water is diamagnetic but since the comparison to air core is minute it is assumed that high frequency magnetic fields can readily penetrate a water core vs an air core. This doesnt entirely hold true. If I was Casey at bat that would be strike 1. So what. There should be enough energy left over for swing two. Casey has devised a method whereby the energy in the magnetic field could exist in the same space of the electric field in the cylindrical water capacitor. L and C will resonate at their respective resonant frequency. Instead of a conducting center post ,it is insulated. The pitcher pitches an electron, and Casey again goes to bat.With a mighty swoosh he completely misses the mark; and the over unity umpire yells STRIKE TWO! Now Casey has his wits about him now; the word TWO reverberates in his mind until he has reached his phase conjugate double born before his time began.Then he realised the paradox before him. To go where no man has gone before by using a quadrature arangement input. Both the potential and kinetic energies of two systems simultaneously increase and decrease. The crowd goes wild when Casey stops and walks away. Strike Three has been denied. _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 17:43:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA21189; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:43:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:43:47 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:44:14 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: The INE Web Site has been updated on March 8 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ac9E62.0.sA5.Ip7vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9230 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All new revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Mar. 8, 1999 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 6, No. 7, January 1999 Energy Productivity Compared Crude Oil Prices Steady For 1999 Tapping Earth's Energy 1998 Report On The Win Method Letter From Martin Oliver on the Transmutation of Nuclear Waste Subjects and Authors People and Organizations Websites Modified data for Zenergy, now Zpower, new addresses. Site Counter = 344,540 Mar. 4, 1999 Added: The First International Conference on Free Energy (CoFE) Secrets of Cold War Technology: Project HAARP and Beyond - A Summary The TR-3B "Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft" The Orgone Energy Accumulator: History, Construction, Experimental Use, 31 July - 1 August 1999 BlackLight Power, Inc. (Dr. Randell L. Mills); Website Mar. 1999. New Electrostatic Generator, US Patented (by Gabriel Lorente) web site, Mar. 1999. Updated: INE Information Flyer Subjects and Authors Websites Announcements of Meetings Site Counter = 342,905 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 17:47:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA23222; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:47:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:47:30 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:45:34 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft Resent-Message-ID: <"FI3Pa.0.lg5.ns7vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9231 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Patrick - > The Germans were also exporting a lot of mercury > to the South Atlantic at the end of the war. (!) Also used as submarine ballast. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 18:18:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01007; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:17:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:17:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990309021826.17306.rocketmail@send206.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:18:26 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Bos Subject: Would like to know if anymore info on ELF generators To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"xguBz.0.YF.3J8vs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9232 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I noticed that last month there were some inquiries on ELF generators. I am also looking for one. If any one knows of schematics or manufacture of this kind of equipment pls post some info on this. thanks Erik Bos _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 18:51:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11538; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:51:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:51:53 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: 666 files Message-Id: <920947884.26731.404@excite.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 18:51:24 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.107 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"7gz811.0.Aq2.8p8vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9233 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In light of the destruction of my laboratory on 3-3-99 I am reopening the 666 file. These are historically contained records from 1993. As a preliminary effort to explain these I am analysing them again and reprinting them on freenrg. The main component of the 666 machine was destroyed in 93 within 48 hours of completion by an unknown party; although I suspected and accused my family nothing came of this. The structure was then reassembled in a different modification according to the following scenario. A single length of wire is commonly wound in a single layer of winds in the secondary of a tesla coil,this design usually dictates 3 times the height vs. diameter geometry of the secondary. A mathematical approximation of the expected inductance is contained in an equation with 3 parameters; A=radius in inch. N=no. of turns B=ht in inch. where L in microhenries= (A)2*(N)2/9A+19B where2=squared function By the above mathematical equation it might not be readily understood that the same length of wire can be coiled in many different geometries, even on a simple cylindrical case such as this; that will provide the SAME inductance. Manipulation of this formula will reveal that if a central coil has an inductance; when the same radius of the coil is expanded 6 fold the corresponding separation between winds of the wire will also expand 6 fold for the same coil of identical length wire to be the same inductance. While this might not seem to have any practical significance the fact that identical standing electrical waves can be produced on different geometries does. On Sept 19th, 1899 Tesla wonders about this kind of interaction and notes that the best interaction between these geometries would be one at 1/4 wavelength interacting with 3/4 wavelength interior coil acting as magnifier. I completely misunderstood this because I had not yet obtained a copy of the Colorado Spring Notes, and when I did it needed to be deciphered. On that special day he noted that this was OBVIOUS.So when I had already built the wrong way it was noted by me and demolished by an unknown party. HDN Determined to continue this story. _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 19:13:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19782; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:12:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:12:47 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Quadrature Oscillators Message-Id: <920949137.19182.187@excite.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 19:12:17 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.107 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"RBZgP2.0.uq4.k69vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9234 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am looking to pay good money to anyone who can supply a means to make a 1000 watt AC signal reproduce in quadrature to powere another 1000 watts. I dont care if it takes 20,000 watts to do this or not. I do not beleive that a readily available solid state technology is available for this purpose: which is why we have no takers here. If anyone can take this challenge I am always willing to pay for my misunderstanding.HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 19:19:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA08332; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:18:52 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:18:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903090317.WAA22963@express.globetrotter.net> From: "Patrick Tremblay" To: Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:15:08 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lz48K1.0.522.MC9vs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9235 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oh, Come on now. You sound like aristotle and his theory that nature is made of four elements: Fire, Water, earth and rocks...whatever. His theory postulated that all mater is made of those four elements. Wood for instance would contain fire and rocks. ETC. I think that we are in a scientific era, not a philosophical one. But what they say about the father the son and the holy ghost is that they are ONE. See, I don't think the bible is something about science or nature. But your thought has me thinking. We already know that electricity and magnetism are ONE. The next thing we need to know is how those two are one with gravity. But you seem to forget something. Nuclear physics. There is the strong and weak interractions. plus other forces. SO your statement does not account nuclear forces and so I don't think we could make an approach between the trinity and the 3 basic forces because there is also nuclear forces and who knows, perhaps there is a force far greater than gravity. Remember the strange deceleration of Voyager ? and those scientists claim that the universe expands due to a big bang. I say, perhaps the galaxies are expanding away from each other by the action of another force. Something like antigravity or an effect that would take place in a huge complex super gravity structure like galaxies where the time it takes for gravity to have an effect on another galaxy or galaxy cluster interferes with the force and causes the universe expansion as we know it. Maybe there is a huge antigravity force in our universe that governs it's expansion and maybe it's NOT due to a big bang explosion. As I always state, if you boil water on your kitchen oven, you will see vapor coming out, but when that vapor reaches the high altitudes of the sky and when you form an immense cloud of dense vapour and heat and cold parameters, you get tornadoes, lightning flashes, hurricanes, ice precipitations etc. Immagine what we would get at a higher scale. Now if you study the vapour coming out of your kitchen stove, it gives you no clue about the behaviour it will have in a super cell cloud. So perhaps the universe's gravity and electromagnetic forces behave like water vapour and our simplistic studies of gravity gives us no clue how gravity will behave at very large scale. Of course there is galaxy clusters and galaxy cluster clusters, but perhaps at the UNIVERSE'S scale those forces are responsible for the expansion of the universe itself and not due to the kinetic force of a supposed big bang. Hey, maybe TIME is a force, and that it's time that is responsible for the expansion of the universe. Maybe the grand unification theory should consider time as a force as all forces to exist and exerce their influence, they need time. no time, no power, no energy, no force and no motion. ---------- > De : RoConroy@aol.com > A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Objet : Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > Date : 8 mars, 1999 11:48 > > In a message dated 3/8/99 2:24:38 AM Central Standard Time, > cameron@ccc.bu.aust.com writes: > > << I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to real > facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the > Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity > and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of the > bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and their > relationships. Any thoughts? Cam >> > > The bible in 1 John 5:8, describes these as water (blue), blood (red), > and the spirit (fire (yellow)). These could be juxtaposed to the 3 primary > colors from which all other colors can be derived. Or since colors are simply > frequencies, based on time and distance, then the structure of all Nature can > be broken down into 3 primal lengths. This is what I have done on my WEB > page: http://go.ourworld.nu/robert_conroy with a link to specifics on > /metaphys.htm I believe the whole blue print for Nature is coded in the 1st > 5 books of the bible, encoded with in such things as the desert tabernacle, > and the tribe of Israel, YHWH's tent, all being key indicators, such as the 3 > fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, plus 12 sons plus the 70 going into Egypt. > This balanced by the negative brother of Jacob, Essau, and his 12 sons etc. > Such things as the 7 spirits of YHWH and the 7 churches mirrored in the > fundamental structure of Nature itself. With a good understanding of the > structure of Nature, one should be able to tap into it's underlying energy. > Bob > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 19:39:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31544; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:39:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:39:52 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? Message-Id: <920950763.27048.384@excite.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 19:39:23 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.107 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"2XqxN.0.ni7.8W9vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9236 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:15:08 -0600, Patrick Tremblay wrote: > Oh, Come on now.=20 > > You sound like aristotle and his theory that nature is made of four > elements: > > Fire, Water, earth and rocks...whatever. > > His theory postulated that all mater is made of those four elements. Wood > for instance would contain fire and rocks.=20 > > ETC. > > I think that we are in a scientific era, not a philosophical one.=20 > > But what they say about the father the son and the holy ghost is that the= > y > are ONE. > > See, I don't think the bible is something about science or nature. But yo= > ur > thought has me thinking. > > We already know that electricity and magnetism are ONE. The next thing we > need to know is how those two are one with gravity. > > But you seem to forget something.=20 > > Nuclear physics. There is the strong and weak interractions. plus other > forces. SO your statement does not account nuclear forces and so I don't > think we could make an approach between the trinity and the 3 basic force= > s > because there is also nuclear forces and who knows, perhaps there is a > force far greater than gravity. > > Remember the strange deceleration of Voyager ? and those scientists claim > that the universe expands due to a big bang. I say, perhaps the galaxies > are expanding away from each other by the action of another force.=20 > > Something like antigravity or an effect that would take place in a huge > complex super gravity structure like galaxies where the time it takes for > gravity to have an effect on another galaxy or galaxy cluster interferes > with the force and causes the universe expansion as we know it.=20 > > Maybe there is a huge antigravity force in our universe that governs it's > expansion and maybe it's NOT due to a big bang explosion. > > As I always state, if you boil water on your kitchen oven, you will see > vapor coming out, but when that vapor reaches the high altitudes of the s= > ky > and when you form an immense cloud of dense vapour and heat and cold > parameters, you get tornadoes, lightning flashes, hurricanes, ice > precipitations etc. > > Immagine what we would get at a higher scale. > > Now if you study the vapour coming out of your kitchen stove, it gives yo= > u > no clue about the behaviour it will have in a super cell cloud. > > So perhaps the universe's gravity and electromagnetic forces behave like > water vapour and our simplistic studies of gravity gives us no clue how > gravity will behave at very large scale.=20 > > Of course there is galaxy clusters and galaxy cluster clusters, but perha= > ps > at the UNIVERSE'S scale those forces are responsible for the expansion of > the universe itself and not due to the kinetic force of a supposed big > bang. > > Hey, maybe TIME is a force, and that it's time that is responsible for th= > e > expansion of the universe. Maybe the grand unification theory should > consider time as a force as all forces to exist and exerce their influenc= > e, > they need time. no time, no power, no energy, no force and no motion. > > ---------- > > De : RoConroy@aol.com > > A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Objet : Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > Date=A0: 8 mars, 1999 11:48 > >=20 > > In a message dated 3/8/99 2:24:38 AM Central Standard Time, > > cameron@ccc.bu.aust.com writes: > >=20 > > << I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related = > to > real > > facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between th= > e > > Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electrici= > ty > > and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy o= > f > the > > bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and > their > > relationships. Any thoughts? Cam >> > >=20 > > The bible in 1 John 5:8, describes these as water (blue), blood > (red), > > and the spirit (fire (yellow)). These could be juxtaposed to the 3 > primary > > colors from which all other colors can be derived. Or since colors are > simply > > frequencies, based on time and distance, then the structure of all Natu= > re > can > > be broken down into 3 primal lengths. This is what I have done on my W= > EB > > page: http://go.ourworld.nu/robert_conroy with a link to specifics o= > n > > /metaphys.htm I believe the whole blue print for Nature is coded in > the 1st > > 5 books of the bible, encoded with in such things as the desert > tabernacle, > > and the tribe of Israel, YHWH's tent, all being key indicators, such as > the 3 > > fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, plus 12 sons plus the 70 going into > Egypt. > > This balanced by the negative brother of Jacob, Essau, and his 12 sons > etc. > > Such things as the 7 spirits of YHWH and the 7 churches mirrored in the > > fundamental structure of Nature itself. With a good understanding of t= > he > > structure of Nature, one should be able to tap into it's underlying > energy. > > Bob > >=20 > >.>.>///??? How many times has introspection yielded a result? God isnt wrote in a book for symbolism to others. Its is your own internal journey that will validate the truth for yourself. You are are in a position of external validation. every mystic in the world will tell you the same thing that is that you are trying to show others is only external validation of your own experience. _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 20:19:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14136; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:19:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:19:16 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: 666-file Message-Id: <920953144.1765.11@excite.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 20:19:04 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.107 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"MUC6e2.0.mS3.35Avs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9237 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The basis of the 666 file was this: 1)Tesla had made a magnifier system consisting of the fact that an external exciter could make an internal coil resonate on a harmonic. 2) The file meant the reverse was possible: that an internal coil could be activated and the outer one could pick up energy 3) Another coil inside the exciter could be made so that both sides obtained this interaction. 4) An analysis of the predicted geometries indicates that for every coil geometry there exists one counterpart that exists to produce an identical inductance that forms a ring structure of identical spacing between wire; identical length of wire; and identical inductance. 5) Internally to that consideration another internal geometry could be made. 6) The general plotting of these coils in 3 dimensions will produce the common shape of the observed historical flying saucer machine. 7) The possibility of selecting one primary to rotate in space to excite one of these exciting coils precludes the small amount of energy needed to rotate that primary. _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 22:11:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15116; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:11:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:11:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36E5DAA0.4078@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:36:16 -0800 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: <920950763.27048.384@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W0-Y1.0.0i3.0kBvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9238 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harvey Norris wrote: > How many times has introspection > yielded a result? God isnt wrote in a book for symbolism to others. Its is > your own internal journey that will validate the truth for yourself. > You are are in a position of external validation. > every mystic in the world will tell you the same thing that is that you are > trying to show others is only external validation of your own experience. > Thank you Harvey! I always look forward to all your posts, and carefully consider all your ideas and experiments very seriously. It's good to have a REAL thinker on the list. Regards, Stuart -- ================================================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 8 23:12:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA28161; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:12:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 23:12:31 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: 666 Message-Id: <920963523.10066.549@excite.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 23:12:03 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.107 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"K3cBc3.0.wt6.VdCvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9239 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have initially described an instance where a particular length of wire can assume a geometry where an inductance occurs. I have furthermore indicated that that length of wire can assume many shapes that will give the same effect of inductance from geometry. Every person in the world is never perfecxt and I appreciate the accidental misspelling. It appears that I have missinterpreted and perhaps taken out of context my original notes of Good Friday;1993 3 separate ratios of 6:1 primary length vs secondary 6:1 radius vs tetertiary 6:1 radius to second tetertiary 666 machine! I dont expect anyone besides myself to understand this because I wrote it and now I must explain myself. A coil using 18 gauge insulated wire will supply about 6 turns per inch winding side by side which the term B in the equation indicating the height of the coil is determined when 1500 ft of wire is used. The same 1500 ft of wire can be stretched out to encompass 6 times the original radius termed A. Correspondingly the N term or no of winds in the 1500 ft length of coil will decrease. The numerator or top term in the inductance equation is expressed as A squared times N squared. When the same length of wire is used that multiplication always yields the same number; it is a constant. The same length of 1500 ft of wire could be stretched out in space to encompass only one loop: this would be its minumum inductance. As each loop is added side by side A shinks,N gains and the denominator comes into play. One doesnt have to make a commentary concerning concavity and secondary derivatives of this inductance equation to conclude that more than one possible solution exists for the same spacing between wires to exist. In the 3 parameters given the spacing between wires is only deduced between the relationship of N;no of turns/B; ht. of coil In the example previously given it was shown that if A expanded 6 fold the corresponding expansion dictated that N/B or space between winds also occurred to make a coil of equal inductance by equation. However that 6/1 ratio does not hold here; it is wrong, but I am firmly convinced that two identically spaced windings determined by N/R can have two different geometries; have the same length of wire; and equal inductance. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 00:40:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13540; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:40:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:40:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36E4C2D8.B3A3AE5C@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 00:42:32 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: <199903090317.WAA22963@express.globetrotter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wlZ863.0.OJ3.bvDvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9241 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I can understand your feelings on this... but I think perhaps your'e tossing this out to soon. Patrick Tremblay wrote: > > Oh, Come on now. > > You sound like aristotle and his theory that nature is made of four > elements: > > Fire, Water, earth and rocks...whatever. > > His theory postulated that all mater is made of those four elements. Wood > for instance would contain fire and rocks. > > ETC. > > I think that we are in a scientific era, not a philosophical one. really...? are we as huiman beings ever able to be just one at the exclusion of the other? Read any decent text on quantum physics and tell me that these physicists aren't smoking joints, playing east indian music, and reading nietzche ever? I've known a number of these folks and I'd say half or more of the stuff written about contemporary physics stem more from philosophy, conjecture, etc... than ever comes from straight science.... heck, not to take pot shots here, but check out Keelynets collection of metaphysicists! You'll find enough voodoo mumbo jumbo mixed with 'science' to more than prove this one! grin... Also, wasnt it Chandra or someone like that, who won some prize for coming up with the 'black hole' theory back in the 60s or something... but it turned out he had actually ripped the idea straight out of some ancient philosophical Indic text? I think what really happens is that we as human beings know so vastly and pathetically little we can't help but patch in the gaps of our reasoning with healthy doses of imagination and make believe and just hope that everything will work out ok and maybe the lighting might stop crashing outside the cave, so to speak.... > But what they say about the father the son and the holy ghost is that they > are ONE. Sure, but 'they' say many related things along this line don't 'they'? I still think the fellow had an interesting point here... I'm not a big Keely fan, frankly I think the guy was probably loony or a fraud, but he certainly had an imagination..he felt that 'three' was an important # also. The trininty as I understand it exists as a paradox being three AND one at the same time.... consider the idea of a unified field theory... a source that represents all reality but yet has once common binding field...ok simplified, but you get the gist. > > See, I don't think the bible is something about science or nature. But your > thought has me thinking. > > We already know that electricity and magnetism are ONE. The next thing we > need to know is how those two are one with gravity. interesting > > But you seem to forget something. > > Nuclear physics. There is the strong and weak interractions. plus other > forces. SO your statement does not account nuclear forces and so I don't > think we could make an approach between the trinity and the 3 basic forces > because there is also nuclear forces and who knows, perhaps there is a > force far greater than gravity. lets get real, we can't prove nuclear physics any more than we can gravity, or light or most of the other basics of our existence, we simply use labels to describe things we understand very little about... but then there I go philosophizing again... ;) > Immagine what we would get at a higher scale. isnt that the so called 'super state'? > Now if you study the vapour coming out of your kitchen stove, it gives you > no clue about the behaviour it will have in a super cell cloud. ahhh > > So perhaps the universe's gravity and electromagnetic forces behave like > water vapour and our simplistic studies of gravity gives us no clue how > gravity will behave at very large scale. nicely said, I wonder if Hoaglands touted 'hyperdimensional physics' might lend a hand in here.. I picked up that levitron gadget...its quite the wonder. > Hey, maybe TIME is a force, and that it's time that is responsible for the > expansion of the universe. Maybe the grand unification theory should > consider time as a force as all forces to exist and exerce their influence, > they need time. no time, no power, no energy, no force and no motion. what if there wasnt any time, really? what if it was a self imposed hoax we placed on ourselves to feel better? > > ---------- > > De : RoConroy@aol.com > > A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Objet : Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > Date : 8 mars, 1999 11:48 > > > > In a message dated 3/8/99 2:24:38 AM Central Standard Time, > > cameron@ccc.bu.aust.com writes: > > > > << I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to > real > > facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the > > Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity > > and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of > the > > bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and > their > > relationships. Any thoughts? Cam >> > > > > The bible in 1 John 5:8, describes these as water (blue), blood > (red), > > and the spirit (fire (yellow)). These could be juxtaposed to the 3 > primary > > colors from which all other colors can be derived. Or since colors are > simply > > frequencies, based on time and distance, then the structure of all Nature > can > > be broken down into 3 primal lengths. This is what I have done on my WEB > > page: http://go.ourworld.nu/robert_conroy with a link to specifics on > > /metaphys.htm I believe the whole blue print for Nature is coded in > the 1st > > 5 books of the bible, encoded with in such things as the desert > tabernacle, > > and the tribe of Israel, YHWH's tent, all being key indicators, such as > the 3 > > fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, plus 12 sons plus the 70 going into > Egypt. > > This balanced by the negative brother of Jacob, Essau, and his 12 sons > etc. > > Such things as the 7 spirits of YHWH and the 7 churches mirrored in the > > fundamental structure of Nature itself. With a good understanding of the > > structure of Nature, one should be able to tap into it's underlying > energy. > > Bob > > -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 00:40:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13519; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:40:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:40:04 -0800 Message-ID: <36E4C2DA.A6AC6E69@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 00:42:34 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: <920950763.27048.384@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nZA573.0.4J3.avDvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9240 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anthony Robbins says much the same thing, and in many ways he's right too. However, I understand that What Drosnin and Rips are researching seems to finally indicate the possible discovery of something quite different. A physical 'artifact' that could if true, easily change everything. There'd be no point in any mystic commenting on 'you are > trying to show others is only external validation of your own experience' because there would actually be an external 'something' that would speak very nicely on its own... > yielded a result? God isnt wrote in a book for symbolism to others. Its is > your own internal journey that will validate the truth for yourself. You are > are in a position of external validation. > every mystic in the world will tell you the same thing that is that you are > trying to show others is only external validation of your own experience. > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 00:40:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13671; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:40:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:40:21 -0800 Message-ID: <36E4C2E1.AC9F4949@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 00:42:41 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 666 files References: <920947884.26731.404@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BvZKg3.0.IL3.qvDvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9242 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harvey, a fascinating story...but what does it mean? What is this device for? What is it supposed to do? Harvey Norris wrote: > > In light of the destruction of my laboratory on 3-3-99 I am reopening the > 666 file. These are historically contained records from 1993. As a > preliminary effort to explain these I am analysing them again and reprinting > them on freenrg. > The main component of the 666 machine was destroyed in 93 within 48 hours > of completion by an unknown party; although I suspected and accused my > family nothing came of this. The structure was then > reassembled in a different modification according to the following > scenario. > A single length of wire is commonly wound in a single layer of winds in > the secondary of a tesla coil,this design usually dictates 3 times the > height > vs. diameter geometry of the secondary. A mathematical approximation of the > expected inductance is contained in an equation with 3 parameters; > A=radius in inch. > N=no. of turns > B=ht in inch. > where L in microhenries= (A)2*(N)2/9A+19B where2=squared function > By the above mathematical equation it might not be readily understood > that the same length of wire can be coiled in many different geometries, > even on a simple cylindrical case such as this; that will provide the SAME > inductance. Manipulation of this formula will reveal that if a central coil > has an inductance; when the same radius of the coil is expanded 6 fold the > corresponding separation between winds of the wire will also expand 6 fold > for the same coil of identical length wire to be the same inductance. While > this might not seem to have any > practical significance the fact that identical standing electrical waves can > be produced on different geometries does. > On Sept 19th, 1899 Tesla wonders about this kind of interaction and notes > that the best interaction between these geometries would be one at 1/4 > wavelength interacting with 3/4 wavelength interior coil acting as > magnifier. I completely misunderstood this because I had not yet obtained a > copy of the Colorado Spring Notes, and when I did it needed to be > deciphered. On that special day he noted that this was OBVIOUS.So when I had > already built the wrong way it was noted by me and demolished by an unknown > party. HDN > Determined to continue this story. > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 00:40:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13687; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:40:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:40:23 -0800 Message-ID: <36E4C2EF.889DCD32@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 00:42:55 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8bpor1.0.aL3.rvDvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9243 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi RoConroy! Very interesting and thought provoking ideas here! I'm not sure if if I'd agree with this all but I must say you certainly give one pause for thought! I'll check out your website! Thanks for sharing! Any further comments on this I would love to hear from you. Don RoConroy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/8/99 2:24:38 AM Central Standard Time, > cameron@ccc.bu.aust.com writes: > > << I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to real > facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the > Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity > and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of the > bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and their > relationships. Any thoughts? Cam >> > > The bible in 1 John 5:8, describes these as water (blue), blood (red), > and the spirit (fire (yellow)). These could be juxtaposed to the 3 primary > colors from which all other colors can be derived. Or since colors are simply > frequencies, based on time and distance, then the structure of all Nature can > be broken down into 3 primal lengths. This is what I have done on my WEB > page: http://go.ourworld.nu/robert_conroy with a link to specifics on > /metaphys.htm I believe the whole blue print for Nature is coded in the 1st > 5 books of the bible, encoded with in such things as the desert tabernacle, > and the tribe of Israel, YHWH's tent, all being key indicators, such as the 3 > fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, plus 12 sons plus the 70 going into Egypt. > This balanced by the negative brother of Jacob, Essau, and his 12 sons etc. > Such things as the 7 spirits of YHWH and the 7 churches mirrored in the > fundamental structure of Nature itself. With a good understanding of the > structure of Nature, one should be able to tap into it's underlying energy. > Bob -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 00:45:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13533; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:45:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:45:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 666 Message-Id: <920969032.5540.447@excite.com> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 00:43:52 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.107 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"qN0SI.0.KJ3.Q-Dvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9244 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 08 Mar 1999 23:12:03 PST, Harvey Norris wrote: > I have initially described an instance where a particular length of wire > can assume a geometry where an inductance occurs. I have furthermore > indicated that that length of wire can assume many shapes that will give the > same effect of inductance from geometry. >> In 1994 I suceeded in establishing a stationary ground resonant pulse that could hit its original destination 12 hours later. This was shown by putting two identical inductance telsa secondaries in agreement and then opposition by reversing the polarities on the primaries. This event is assumed to have been by chance,not intention. Again these events were instigated by two secondaries in a 3/1 ratio where one had 6turns per inch, the other 2. The coil containing 2 was 10 ft in diameter; the coil at 6/in was 20 inches in diameter:each of these contained the same length of 1500 ft and identical inductance.The grounding on each of these were separated about 20 ft. Each of the secondaries were forced to operate in opposition and then agreement by primaries in which it was noted that despite predicted opposing polarities on secondary, arcing between them readily occurs which leads credance to a new concept of bi-directional current flow ain accordance with this new phase conjugation thing. Any ways 12 hours later the loud explosion was heard which occured as a supposed consequence of this experimentation. I was sure glad that the electric co. came by and reassured me and my neighbors and the police dept that only an errant squirrel had somehow caused the nearest lightening arrestor to explode on this perfectly calm summer day in which only this street had no power and the damn explosion yeided a big sound, but no burnt squirrels to satisfy the neighbors. This was the funniest thing in the world to see; the man in the electric truck went around the block and the neighbors were chasing him and they were all looking for a burnt up squirrel because thats what the electric man said happened. He came back full circle and simply stared at this obscene electrical high voltage apparatus in the front yard of my apartment. So be it. I did tell the police that I could not be responsible for something that was done yesterday. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 00:55:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA17730; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:55:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:55:27 -0800 Message-ID: <36E4C601.18E2FF1@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 00:56:01 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 666 References: <920969032.5540.447@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NcagS1.0.xK4._7Evs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9245 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: cool... Harvey Norris wrote: > > On Mon, 08 Mar 1999 23:12:03 PST, Harvey Norris wrote: > > > I have initially described an instance where a particular length of > wire > > can assume a geometry where an inductance occurs. I have furthermore > > indicated that that length of wire can assume many shapes that will give > the > > same effect of inductance from geometry. > >> In 1994 I suceeded in establishing a stationary ground resonant pulse > that could hit its original destination 12 hours later. This was shown by > putting two identical inductance telsa secondaries in agreement and then > opposition by reversing the polarities on the primaries. This event is > assumed to have been by chance,not intention. Again these events were > instigated by two secondaries in a 3/1 ratio where one had 6turns per inch, > the other 2. The coil containing 2 was 10 ft in diameter; the coil at 6/in > was 20 inches in diameter:each of these contained the same length of 1500 ft > and identical inductance.The grounding on each of these were separated about > 20 ft. Each of the secondaries were forced to operate in opposition and > then agreement by primaries in which it was noted that despite predicted > opposing polarities on secondary, arcing between them readily occurs which > leads credance to a new concept of bi-directional current flow ain > accordance with this new phase conjugation thing. > Any ways 12 hours later the loud explosion was heard which occured as a > supposed consequence of this experimentation. I was sure glad that the > electric co. came by and reassured me and my neighbors and the police dept > that only an errant squirrel had somehow caused the nearest lightening > arrestor to explode on this perfectly calm summer day in which only this > street had no power and the damn explosion yeided a big sound, but no burnt > squirrels to satisfy the neighbors. This was the funniest thing in the world > to see; the man in the electric truck went around the block and the > neighbors were chasing him and they were all looking for a burnt up squirrel > because thats what the electric man said happened. He came back full circle > and simply stared at this obscene electrical high voltage apparatus in the > front yard of my apartment. So be it. I did tell the police that I could not > be responsible for something that was done yesterday. > HDN > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 04:16:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA24126; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 04:16:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 04:16:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903091215.WAA29246@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:48:15 Subject: Re: flywheels Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"zNwBU1.0.nu5.J4Hvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9247 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 8 Mar 99 at 15:11, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > I need to locate a source of flywheels for a device I am building. I am > thinking about something similar to the flywheels in those little cars > that I played with as a child, but I can't remember the name of them. I > have daughters and Barbie and toy horses don't have wheels and gears in > them. So, aside from taking apart neighbor kid's toys, what is a good way > to obtain flywheels? Anyone who makes curtains has round lead weights to weigh the curtains down. They aren't perfectly round, so they would need rounding somehow and a shaft soldered into them... just a thought. Or you could find someone to supply you with toy flywheels :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pop, sweltering away in summer Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, preffered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 04:16:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA24104; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 04:16:20 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 04:16:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903091215.WAA29191@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:04:27 Subject: Round Earth Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"TR_uR1.0.Su5.F4Hvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9246 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Bible was right about the 'circle of the earth' 'hanging upon nothing', back when it was believed the earth was flat. On 8 Mar 99 at 19:39, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > > > << I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related > = > > to > > real > > > facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between > th= > > e > > > Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, > electrici= > > ty > > > and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy > o= > > f > > the > > > bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and > > their > > > relationships. Any thoughts? Cam >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pop, sweltering away in summer Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, preffered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 05:20:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA30711; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 05:20:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 05:20:34 -0800 Message-ID: <002f01be6a2f$92d21040$d5b5aad0@r.davis> Reply-To: "R. A. Davis" From: "R. A. Davis" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:20:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"cnerA1.0.cV7.Y0Ivs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9248 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ironic, but what makes this Old Testament Universal Search Engine concept plausible to me is the Kaballa itself. The esoteric doctrine is that the hebrew alphabet is magical in nature. Each letter has a specific numerical value, so words having the same value will have similarities of meaning. So, such a system would be susceptible to a digital program, and that program might produce some astonishing results. Kaballa (qabala, qaballah, kaballa...Quibbella?) is one of those disciplines that looks hokey from the outside. From the inside you discover there's nothing unscientific about it at all, except it deals in concepts "science" hasn't yet discovered. As for YHVH, or Tetragrammeton, the letters signify (in order) fire, water, air and earth. Or, Will, Feeling, Mind and Body. Energy, Receptivity, Motion and Materiality--the list of correspondences is endless. There are other "maps" of the universe, some derived mystically, some scientifically. I can't figure out who said what in this thread, but somebody commented that physicists sound like they're smoking rope and listening to sitars. I always felt they got that way from contemplating the basic units that comprise this place we are in (if it is actually a place) (PUFF). Sort of changed their reference points, like the manned lunar landing changed forever our view of the world. Anyway, this is interesting stuff. Don, if you or anyone can direct me to Rips or Drosnin info online, please do! Thanks, RAD "Magick is science that has not yet been discovered by scientists." --Aleister Crowley From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 07:07:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA01881; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:07:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:07:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199903091506.MAA20777@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Improving To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:07:44 -2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Normal matter in the Universe is not enough Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"i9OXc2.0.5T.OaJvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9249 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: N. 03-99 - Paris, 5 March 1999 ------------------------------------------------------------------ ISO confirms that the normal matter in the Universe is not enough ------------------------------------------------------------------ The fate of the Universe depends on the total amount of existing matter. New clues on this value have been obtained by an international team of astronomers using ESA's infrared space telescope, ISO, by measuring for the first time the abundance of a particular chemical element, deuterium, in a very active star forming region in the Orion nebula. Their result confirms that the total amount of normal matter is not enough to stop the expansion of the Universe and cause it to collapse into a 'Big Crunch' in the future. Deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen, is a key element for astronomers studying the origin of the Universe. All the deuterium that can be detected today was produced a few minutes after the Big Bang, during a process called primordial nucleosynthesis --in which a few other elements, like hydrogen and helium,were also made. Apart from the Big Bang, there are no other known sources of deuterium in the Universe. Thus, astronomers regard deuterium as a 'fossil element' that holds a lot of cosmological information. Specifically, the abundance of deuterium in the new-born Universe is directly related to the total amount of existing normal matter -the so-called 'baryonic' matter--, the value upon which depends the ultimate fate of our Universe. According to the most accepted theories, if the total amount of matter exceeds a certain number, known as the critical density, in the far future the Universe will stop expanding and will collapse into a 'Big Crunch'; otherwise, the expansion will continue forever. But measuring the abundance of primordial deuterium is not easy. It started off at one value at the time of the Big Bang -10 to 15 billion years ago-, but has since diminished significantly because it is destroyed by nuclear reactions in the interior of the stars. Astronomers, therefore, have measured different values for deuterium in different places and are trying to extrapolate back in time to the deuterium abundance at the Big Bang. The new result obtained by the international team led by Chris Wright (School of Physics, University College, Canberra, Australia) and Ewine van Dishoeck (Leiden University Observatory, The Netherlands), using the Long Wavelength Spectrometer (LWS) on board ISO, allows for the first time to infer the deuterium abundance in an actively star forming region, the Orion Bar in the Orion nebula, about 1,500 light-years away. The deuterium they measured was locked up in the primary deuterium bearing molecule in the Universe, hydrogen deuteride (HD). They found in the Orion Bar one deuterium atom for every 100,000 hydrogen atoms, which is consistent with other measurements in other places indicating that the amount of normal matter in the Universe is not enough to cause a 'Big Crunch'. "This is one step along the road to determine the deuterium abundance at the time of the Big Bang, the value that everybody is trying to zoom in on!", says Wright. "And it confirms that the density of normal (or baryonic) matter is less than that required to close the Universe". The new result demonstrates also the feasibility of a new technique for measuring the deuterium abundance in active star forming regions, a useful legacy for future infrared space telescopes such as ESA's FIRST, due for launch in 2007. The team will explain their work in a future issue of Astrophysical Journal Letters. The scientific community is now expecting a stream of new discoveries from ISO, since the ISO Archive, a "goldmine" filled with nearly 30,000 scientific ISO observations, has recently been opened to astronomers all over the world. The ISO Archive is located at the ISO Data Center, at Villafranca, Spain, and can be accessed for free via the Internet from : http://www.iso.vilspa.esa.es FOOTNOTE ON ISO ISO was put into orbit in November 1995, by an Ariane 44P launcher from the European Spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana. As an unprecedented observatory for infrared astronomy, the spacecraft was able to examine cool and hidden places in the Universe. For more information and ISO pictures : ESA Public Relations Division: Tel: +33(0)1.53.69.71.55 Fax: +33(0)1.53.69.76.90 Martin Kessler, ISO Project Scientist and co-discoverer: ESA's Satellite Tracking Station in Villafranca (Spain). mkessler@iso.vilspa.esa.es Visit the ISO web-site (Hi-Res Images available) at: http://www.iso.vilspa.esa.es http://sci.esa.int/iso --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 11:26:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05720; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:25:28 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:25:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:15:48 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: free E , Harvey Norris Subject: Re: Casey at the bat In-Reply-To: <920943028.12688.167@excite.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ilJW82.0.AP1.ZMNvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9250 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What are you writing about? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 11:37:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07438; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:37:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:37:45 -0800 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:28:59 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Harvey Norris , John Schnurer Subject: Sure thing... can do! .... Quadrature Oscillators In-Reply-To: <920949137.19182.187@excite.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"i7r9n1.0.-p1.9YNvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9251 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Harvey, and fre... Please correct any mis understanding ... 1] Starting, you have an AC signal at, for example, 500 cps, or cycles per second. We will call this "Signal A". 2] Now you want a second signal, at 500 cps, "slaved to" or synchronized with the first signal..... We will call this "Signal B". The second signal, "Signal B" is 90 degrees phase shifted from "Signal A" 3] The two signals are in quadrature. 4] Both signals are at 1,000 watts. Is this correct? What is your target nominal signal level... say 100 volts, 10 amps and 600 ohms source impedance. John PS: This is standard signal design work and not a huge mystery. On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Harvey Norris wrote: > I am looking to pay good money to anyone who can supply a means to make a > 1000 watt AC signal reproduce in quadrature to powere another 1000 watts. I > dont care if it takes 20,000 watts to do this or not. I do not beleive that > a readily available solid state technology is available for this purpose: > which is why we have no takers here. > If anyone can take this challenge I am always willing to pay for my > misunderstanding.HDN > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 12:01:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19539; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:01:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:01:11 -0800 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <43df4c3d.36e57c4d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:53:49 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Trinity Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"D4Hp.0.5n4.4uNvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9252 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In answer to the question about what the Bible says of the Trinity, the answer to that is that the Trinity is an "artifact" of certain sects of Christianity. In other words, certain Christian groups believe in such a thing as the Trinity and others don't. No where, I believe, in the Bible does it refer to such a thing. A better match between religion and science can be found in some of the various Indian religions (i.e. Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 12:19:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25219; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:19:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:19:08 -0800 Message-ID: <36E566AD.99652A72@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:21:33 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <43df4c3d.36e57c4d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CISMu1.0.f96.v8Ovs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9253 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Actually, its not simply an artifact but a state of pluralism converging on a singularity. This is well documented throughout the old and new testaments..its just wordd differently between the two. As for Indic Vedas et al, if Drosnin / Rips are right, this alone blows all the Vedas clean out of the water. Bmd2323@aol.com wrote: > > In answer to the question about what the Bible says of the Trinity, the answer > to that is that the Trinity is an "artifact" of certain sects of Christianity. > In other words, certain Christian groups believe in such a thing as the > Trinity and others don't. No where, I believe, in the Bible does it refer to > such a thing. A better match between religion and science can be found in > some of the various Indian religions (i.e. Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) > > Brian Drake > (Bmd2323@aol.com) -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 13:10:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23858; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:10:06 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:10:06 -0800 (PST) From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:01:39 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: re:Trinity Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"0jqek1.0.dq5.iuOvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9254 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One hates to get into a debate about religion as it eventually leads to a couple of narrow minded zealots beating each other up over who's right about how much God agrees with them, but I feel compelled to point this out. There are several branches of Christianity (Church of Christ comes to mind, and I believe that the Greek or Russian Orthodox as well) do not believe in what is commonly referred to as the Trinity. Also, there are many early versions of Biblical texts (i.e. the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Library of Nag Hammadi, and others) which make no mention of anything we would call a "Trinity." Much of what we know as Christianity did not occur until the late 3rd and early 4th centuries when the Church at gatherings such as the Council of Nicea decided on what items to include in the Bible, what to leave out and whether or not Jesus was the Son of God or "merely" a divinely inspired mortal. My point as to the Indian religions was not to flaunt them over Christianity, but to point out that there are other religions with accurate cosmological models and that one shouldn't become smug simply because they found something in a book somewhere that happened to match a notion they have. (Its not good science after all.) Every religion out there has some points to it which match up to current physics in some manner. Even extinct religions match up with certain areas of modern scientific thought. None of this should mean anything to us as scientific explorers. Not because religion isn't something of value, but because most religions rest upon some unproveable aspect of faith. I may believe that Christ rose from the dead, but I have no proof other than the Bible to back this up. The Egyptians had elaborate burial rituals because they had books telling them that if they buried someone in this manner he or she would have a life after death. Does this mean one is more accurate than the other? I'm not qualified to say, and unfortunately, the only ones who are, are dead. Basing scientific exploration on an ideological basis is the very crime committed by those who squash innovative scientific exploration. We shouldn't worry about whether this or that scientific principal agrees with a religious thought, but whether or not it is provable. After all, it was the Catholic Church who was enraged by the thought that the Earth revolved around the sun, not the Earth. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 13:23:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19501; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:23:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:23:14 -0800 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Tue, 09 Mar 1999 16:19:07 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Tue, 09 Mar 1999 16:22:40 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 16:10:04 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft In-reply-to: To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 16:19:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1965ZXVBNBSKI X400-MTS-identifier: [;70916190309991/3582296@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"G8brN1.0.Fm4._4Pvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9255 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: PB, That would depend on how much the remaining 11% weighs. Is it more than the weight of the air displaced by the volume of the craft? If not than it would float like a hot air balloon. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >I also have a problem with only the 89% weight (mass) reduction - why not 100% >and the use of rocket jets would make a lot of noise (for the other 11%), >and according to witness who saw the "Pheonix Lights Triangle" up close and >personal (about 2 years ago) [not the lights: the Triangle, which was >first!] it made zero noise as it (they?) floated overhead. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 15:02:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA24293; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:01:42 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:01:42 -0800 (PST) Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <000801be6949$649d1da0$b68f19d4@xxx> From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Vicente_Jos=E9_Ramos_Orenga?=" To: Subject: RE: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:52:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"QwaK83.0.Px5.EXQvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9256 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I have some draws based in this ancient book. This book makes mention to a special chants from pilots for a good flight. Vicente. -----Mensaje original----- De: Patrick Bailey Para: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fecha: martes, 09 de marzo de 1999 2:32 Asunto: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft >Very good: My fault - I did that... > >There is a book out by David Childress called "Viamina Aircraft", or >something like that - where the translation from ancient Sanscrit describes >how to build "flying craft" that were used back then - and they used iron >and heated mercury. > >I just assumed the same thing here. > >The Germans were also exporting a lot of mercury to the South Atlantic at >the end of the war. (!) > >I also have a problem with only the 89% weight (mass) reduction - why not 100% - > >and the use of rocket jets would make a lot of noise (for the other 11%), >and according to witness who saw the "Pheonix Lights Triangle" up close and >personal (about 2 years ago) [not the lights: the Triangle, which was >first!] it made zero noise as it (they?) floated overhead. [One winess >reported to Peter Davenport (US UFO Reporting Center 800 number, recorded) >that the triangle was 5 (five) fist-widths long, fist held at arms length. >I have the audiotape...] > >PB. > > >>Reality check time. >> >>>to scan down for "TR-3B". Supposedly uses a heated mercury vortex to >>>offset gravity "mass". Details included. >> >>Heated? That's not what it says on the web page. Here: >> >>"The plasma was cooled to super-conductive temperatures, rotated at 45 thousand >>revolutions per minute, and pressurized at 150 thousand atmospheres." >> >>OK, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but at superconductive temperatures >>(in the single digits Kelvin for mercury, aren't they?) and 150000 atm, it >>ought >>to be a solid rather than a plasma, right? >> >>Then later, he writes: >> >>"The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a >>temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin" >> >>150 Kelvin is still way below the melting point of Hg, and now we're up to >>250000 atm. >> >>-- >>home page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 9 15:07:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25783; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:06:35 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:06:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:06:33 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q9ajq2.0.kI6.qbQvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9257 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Brian, I'm bowing out of this gracefully since we're simply no longer on topic here. I've heard all your arguments before from other people and am familiar with where this line of thought comes from and where it leads to. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on some of these issues and leave it at that. I wasn't insinuating you were flaunting anything, only stating that if Drosnin is right about the Bible Codes then it over turns pretty much all the apple carts. And if they are right then 'free energy' may well be described there in. As for your Trininty argument, its packaged very fine as this one usually is but it leaves out other information to support itself. I.e. Greek Oethodoxy et al. That my final word on the Trinity and religion for now. How the heck we got sidetracked to this anyway is beyond me, I simply pointed out an interesting possible source of what could be an amazing reservoir of informtion vis a vis Eli Rips work. Bmd2323@aol.com wrote: > > One hates to get into a debate about religion as it eventually leads to a > couple of narrow minded zealots beating each other up over who's right about > how much God agrees with them, but I feel compelled to point this out. There > are several branches of Christianity (Church of Christ comes to mind, and I > believe that the Greek or Russian Orthodox as well) do not believe in what is > commonly referred to as the Trinity. Also, there are many early versions of > Biblical texts (i.e. the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Library of Nag Hammadi, and > others) which make no mention of anything we would call a "Trinity." Much of > what we know as Christianity did not occur until the late 3rd and early 4th > centuries when the Church at gatherings such as the Council of Nicea decided > on what items to include in the Bible, what to leave out and whether or not > Jesus was the Son of God or "merely" a divinely inspired mortal. > > My point as to the Indian religions was not to flaunt them over Christianity, > but to point out that there are other religions with accurate cosmological > models and that one shouldn't become smug simply because they found something > in a book somewhere that happened to match a notion they have. (Its not good > science after all.) Every religion out there has some points to it which > match up to current physics in some manner. Even extinct religions match up > with certain areas of modern scientific thought. None of this should mean > anything to us as scientific explorers. Not because religion isn't something > of value, but because most religions rest upon some unproveable aspect of > faith. I may believe that Christ rose from the dead, but I have no proof > other than the Bible to back this up. The Egyptians had elaborate burial > rituals because they had books telling them that if they buried someone in > this manner he or she would have a life after death. Does this mean one is > more accurate than the other? I'm not qualified to say, and unfortunately, > the only ones who are, are dead. > > Basing scientific exploration on an ideological basis is the very crime > committed by those who squash innovative scientific exploration. We shouldn't > worry about whether this or that scientific principal agrees with a religious > thought, but whether or not it is provable. After all, it was the Catholic > Church who was enraged by the thought that the Earth revolved around the sun, > not the Earth. > > Brian Drake > (Bmd2323@aol.com) -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 07:11:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA12677; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:11:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:11:07 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:11:00 GMT Message-ID: <36e78a2d.42415159@smtp.zipworld.com.au> References: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> In-Reply-To: <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA12643 Resent-Message-ID: <"HWUn53.0.w53.Akevs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9258 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:06:33 -0600, "Don J. S. Adams" wrote: >I wasn't insinuating you were flaunting anything, only stating >that if Drosnin is right about the Bible Codes then it over turns >pretty much all the apple carts. And if they are right then 'free >energy' may well be described there in. OTOH, Don... what if the Vedas and other sacred writings of various religions, both extinct and extant, were subjected to the same sort of analysis... and yielded the same or similar results. Now, wouldn't THAT be interesting . Maybe, just MAYBE, if we combined ALL the sacred works of all known religions and created one humongeous database, searchable in this way, we might find some VERY interesting things. Cheers all, Alan (ducking and running, ***VERY*** fast ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 07:18:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15536; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:18:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:18:09 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:17:01 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: looking for Dean T. Miller/colloidal silver In-Reply-To: <000801be6949$649d1da0$b68f19d4@xxx> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aYrTg3.0.bo3.nqevs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9259 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone know a new e-mail address (or phone/fax#) for the above? He had a very useful post on this listserve on Sept.18/98 on the topic of: "special water, colloidal silver". I was interested the use of CS for treating (grey)water. Thanks for any help. Jorg Ostrowski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 12:03:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA30804; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:03:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:03:05 -0800 Message-ID: <36E7EFE9.55A8@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:31:37 -0800 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> <36e78a2d.42415159@smtp.zipworld.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Tbbvd3.0.DX7.u_ivs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9260 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alan Schneider wrote: > > Maybe, just MAYBE, if we combined ALL the sacred works of all known > religions and created one humongeous database, searchable in this way, > we might find some VERY interesting things. > > > Then again, why restrict your data-base? I read somewhere that this 'code' was tried on a copy of Melvilles "Moby Dick", and it came up with all sorts of remarkable prophesy! Perhaps we could try it on a copy of "Great Expectations", or "The User Reference Manual for MS-DOS". Who knows what wonders might be revealed. SR -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 12:21:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA04981; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:21:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:21:43 -0800 Message-ID: <36E6B8C5.625F2533@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:24:05 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> <36e78a2d.42415159@smtp.zipworld.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"16mAL3.0.XD1.MHjvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9261 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Al, > OTOH, Don... what if the Vedas and other sacred writings of various > religions, both extinct and extant, were subjected to the same sort > of analysis... and yielded the same or similar results. it seems I've hit a nerve? does it bother you that these possible results seem to have been found within this text? why it would is beyond me. as to the 'what if' question, that would be great if they DID contain additional info! Since the conversation was started with the intent of finding a treasure trove of usable information I'd have to say more valuable info is better to be sure. However, you'll find that the history behond this text is quite unique in many ways... its thought that the original encoded information was passed as a single string of charaters with no delimiters of any kind between characters or words. this means that in order for the text to make any sense at all to a human reader, data parsing was an absolute necessity. This also lends itself extremly well to the contention of having skip interval data hidden within. To my knowledge, the bulk of the Vedas, written mainly in Sanskrit variants, from what I understand, were not ever fashioned in this manner. Perhaps an open mind might be helpful here when considering this possible phenomenon, rather than a 'crucify the messenger for bringing unwelcome news, attitude'. All it would take is to run similiar tests on other texts to get the same level of results. I understand that a number of other books have been tested applying these techniques and the general finding is that nothing tested so far except the Bible has produced such dramatic results. If the Vedas were tested and found to contain the same level of meaningful data, then I imagine this could be of some benefit also? Or were you hoping to unmask some feeble attempt on my part to proselytize other readers? grin.... sorry to dissapoint you, I'm just reporting what I've heard, I'm sure Eli Rips would be happy to debate with you and I'm sure you'd find him to be a much more entertaining target. I can't help but wonder...what if Oates is right about the idea of reverse speech? Is it possible that there may be a degree of embedded info contained within written materials as well? If so, then why such high levels of info contained with the Bible Codes, and why is it that there are breaches of time within, how could desert dwellers over two thousand years ago know the exact name of the Shumaker-Levy strike on Jupiter? And the exact date? Makes Nostrademus look like a cheap carny show. These questions go on an on... while other texts have sometimes revealed very, very low levels of encoded information they are literally nothing in comparison to whats found in the BC (Bible Codes) and they certainly do not cross periods of time like this.... > Now, wouldn't THAT be interesting . Yes, of course it would be... and perhaps at some point someone may actually make the effort to investigate this in an honest and thorough manner rather than just speak of 'what ifs'. Whats the saying... you could move New York city with a 'What if?' What if we all grew pink and purple wings and flew to Nirvana? Yes, very nice contention, but it would be so much nicer if there were some effort and tabgible results to look at. Currently we have that vis a vis the 'Bible Codes'. > Maybe, just MAYBE, if we combined ALL the sacred works of all known > religions and created one humongeous database, searchable in this way, > we might find some VERY interesting things. well, nice idea.... but I think you'd likely just have a mess on your hands. possibly a better route would be to study each one exhaustively in its own cultural context etc.... hopefully something useful might be found. As to VERY interesting things being found, well it seems this has already happened in the BC so your a bit late I'm afraid. > (ducking and running, ***VERY*** fast ) (watching Al running from nothing and wondering why he keeps looking over his shoulder as if chased by his own internal phantoms....) drum roll please.... and now for the question you really didnt want me to ask... what if the Vedas ARE tested and they arent even close to the BC? What then? (Don continues to watch Al running away....) BIGGEST GRIN -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 12:25:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA06947; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:25:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:25:09 -0800 Message-ID: <36E6B99B.B4985CFE@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:27:39 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> <36e78a2d.42415159@smtp.zipworld.com.au> <36E7EFE9.55A8@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IyxXE2.0.3i1.aKjvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9262 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart, I've heard these rumours also, and generally thats what they are... rumours...likely distributed by those who find this information, for whatever personal reasons... uncomfortable. The interesting thing is that solid references are almost never provided by those who say such things. I'm sure you're not in that category. Could you provide please; WHO discovered this evidence you speak of, WHEN did they find it and WHERE can it be easily referenced? Stuart Rae wrote: > > Alan Schneider wrote: > > > > > Maybe, just MAYBE, if we combined ALL the sacred works of all known > > religions and created one humongeous database, searchable in this way, > > we might find some VERY interesting things. > > > > > > > > Then again, why restrict your data-base? I read somewhere that this 'code' > was tried on a copy of Melvilles "Moby Dick", and it came up with all sorts > of remarkable prophesy! > > Perhaps we could try it on a copy of "Great Expectations", or "The User > Reference Manual for MS-DOS". Who knows what wonders might be revealed. > > SR > -- -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 13:42:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA32001; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:42:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:42:37 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990310164126.006c9968@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aces79@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:41:26 -0500 To: mark@plug-in.com.br, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Zac Miller Subject: Re: Normal matter in the Universe is not enough Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uHDTo.0.wp7.CTkvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9263 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your following message has been delivered to the 316 members of the list KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net at 16:12:15 on 9 Mar 1999. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not to flaunt my stupidity or anything, but what does ISO stand for? Zac Miller "Your lack of pants disturbs me." >------------------------------------------------------------------ >ISO confirms that the normal matter in the Universe is not enough >------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------- To leave this list, email with the body text: leave Keelynet list archives and on line subscription forms are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ ------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 15:09:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15471; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:08:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:08:59 -0800 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <28a756b3.36e6f985@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:00:21 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: looking for Dean T. Miller/colloidal silver Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"pcQBa1.0.an3.Aklvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9264 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/10/99 10:19:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, jdo@ucalgary.ca writes: << Does anyone know a new e-mail address (or phone/fax#) for the above? He had a very useful post on this listserve on Sept.18/98 on the topic of: "special water, colloidal silver". I was interested the use of CS for treating (grey)water. Thanks for any help. Jorg Ostrowski >> I use a quart of 5ppm colloidal silver for each 55 G drum. Most of my 1/2 G "soda" bottles get a sip roughly the size of a tblspoon. Do you need equipment to make your own, cheap preservative? Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 15:24:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21311; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:24:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:24:26 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:16:58 -0800 To: iufo@world.std.com (I_UFO-L) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle Cc: UFO UpDates - Toronto , pgb@padrak.com (BCC: UFO_Send_List), freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) Resent-Message-ID: <"45dH7.0.uC5.fylvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9265 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree with others that I am having a time hard believing the data on Ed Fouche's website and in his book "Alien Rapture". Fouche's Website = http://www.fouchemedia.com After all, if it were absolutely true, why is that data still there on the web, and why is Ed still walking around? We are taking here of data from S-4 (cf - Bob Lazar), not Groom Lake. Much more sensitive data... Also - I'd like to remind all of you that at the Feb. 1999 International UFO Congress, Peter Davenport (of the US UFO Reporting Center) gave a real good talk which included a detailed summary of the "Phoenix Triangle" events of March 13, 1997. I have an audiotape of his talk, and they are available NOW from the Congress, at http://www.ufocongress.com. That was NOT any TR-3B. Several witnesses described it as a huge flying wing, with five lights (not 3), and how it was 4 fist-lengths long (at arms length) when it stopped over Phoenix, Peter said at 7,000 to 10,000 feet, so this would make that craft somewhere between 1 and 2 MILES long. That size seems too big! Too bad. A mom and her kids all saw it for over 3 minutes. It stopped dead over them for at least 3 minutes, absolutely silent. An F-15 pilot from Luke AFB (2 F-15s used for Air Force 1 and 2 cover, not assigned to the base) intercepted the craft. An audiotape from an airman at the base says that the base was "closed" after the intercept. Peter said the pilot had to be lifted from his cockpit seat (shock?). Peter also said that the US may have gone to DEFCON 3 that day, and if so, that would account for how Pres. Clinton may have injured his knee (running from the AU golf player's house in FL(?) to a safe haven). It all seems to fit... You don't believe me? Here's the transcript of that airman's tape: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/CB970313a.html . Other witnesses on that tape describe how it took them 2.5 minutes to go underneath that craft at 80 mph, when they were going North into Phoenix. One witness was there at the Congress and personally testified on the micreophone to that statement - she came all the way from Tuscon just to do that for Peter. [2.5*60]*[80*(88/60)]/5280 = 3.3 miles! THE PHOENIX LIGHTS were this (or perhaps several) LARGE TRIANGLES!!! They were not the lights, flares, or whatever they were - that hung in the air and traced the outline of the ridge of a local mountain range an hour (or 2 hours?) after the triangle(s) passed over Phoenix. Get it right! US UFO Reporting Center: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/ PB. http://www.padrak.com/ufo/ For the first time in all my years of research, I am truly in awe. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 15:32:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA24070; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:32:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:32:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36E6E56F.FBE4AFE7@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:34:39 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RUSSIAN SLEEP MACHINE FOUND - & Protection for human tissue against EMF rad References: <199903091506.MAA20777@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r_E6p2.0.wt5.x3mvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9266 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've been interested in a number of devices purported to protect against the chaotic EMF emissions which swirl all around us, ie cell phone transmissions, microwaves, computers, etc. Especially since I work around computers so much. I've heard of a number of devices over the last few years that piqued my interest but I always get a wide variety of responses and it makes it difficult to really determine what is what. this device looks somewhat plausible (if I let my perceived grasp on reality loosen just a bit) but like most others seems embroiled at least partially, in a bit of 'dubious' science. http://www.bioelectricshield.com Jerry Decker once mentioned the 'Q-Link Pendant' mande by Clarus, which used some sort of circuitry to fend off chaotic EMFs, I've looked into Clarus and their 'technology' but still havent got a real definitive answer on this one, unfortunately not much real meat on the issue was forthcoming from Jerry as I believe he had only heard of it briefly in passing somewhere and an exhaustive search on the net on my part really didnt turn much up on this. One company that used to list it in their catalog www.tools4explore.com dont carry it much anymore and it doesnt sound like it sells that well. But the write ups the vendors have on this product make it sound good in some ways yet really dubious in others; ----------snip---------------- The Q-Link is an advanced new bioenergy pendant that helps to reduce the stressful "de-tuning" effects of EMF "noise" and "static" on your energy field (ch'i) and to align your ch'i with your physical body. This can help restore your body's resilience in the presence of toxic electromagnetic fields. Many users feel this right away, reporting a sense of balance, vitality, heightened awareness, or sharper perception. How does it work? When the Q-Link is worn close to the body, your bioenergy field charges the Q-Link's induction coil and microcircuitry, automatically activating it. Its bio-resonant functions immediately begin to link with and stabilize the clear harmonics of your larger bioenergy field (extending 2-3 feet), much like a tuning fork. (This principle is "phase resonance.") Elegantly designed and constructed of bio-compatible acrylics, the Q-Link is designed to be worn next to the body. Comes with black nylon cord, or you can use your own chain. Made to last. 3-year warranty. The Q-Link (ET310) $179.00 Special Price $129.95 ----------snip---------------- Clarus also apparently makes another device called the 'clearwave professional' which looks like a clock radio and supposedly emits something that yields a 'sphere' of protection. The following commentary was found on line from a supposed third party critquing the tech along with a bunch of others (see #4 for Clarus); ----------snip----------- WHAT'S NEW by Robert L. Park Friday, 27 May 94 Washington, DC 3. TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER: ACADEMIC RESEARCH YIELDS ANTI-EMF DEVICE! The EMX Corporation, formed in 1991 to commercialize technology developed at Catholic University in Washington, DC, is marketing an IBM compatible keyboard that "neutralizes the effect of EMF emissions from your computer." The keyboard works by generating EMF noise, which is said to block the harmful effects of coherent fields that emanate from computers. This remarkable technology was discovered by physicist Ted Litovitz at Catholic University's Vitreous State Laboratory. The VSL was one of the first academic pork projects; it's an ultramodern, 90,000-square foot R&D center built with a $14M DOE earmark, though few vitreous state research publications seem to come from the VS Lab. Litovitz was studying the effect of EMF on chicken embryos and mouse cells, which are not thought to be vitreous. But WHAT'S NEW is confident that you will suffer no ill effects from EMF if this keyboard is used with your computer. Or you could just hang garlic around your neck. 4. COMPETITION IS KEEN IN THE RACE TO NEUTRALIZE EFFECTS OF EMF! The EMX device is not without competitors; Clarus Environmental Systems is offering a simple plug-in device that is also intended to "neutralize the negative effects of EMF emitted by computers." Oops! The Clarus researchers find that the biologically stressful effects of EMF are directly related to "disordered, random and chaotic energy in EMF fields." They fix the problem by cleaning up the noise, thus making the EMF more coherent. Clarus relies on advice from William Tiller, former chair of Stanford's Materials Department. Despite seemingly opposite approaches, WN assures its readers that the Clarus and EMX devices are equally effective. THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.) ------------------------------ So then I found this excellent site owned by a professor of psychology who collects old Electrotherapy devices, in fact he has his own stylized museum online of these, which happens to include a real, bonafide, genuine RUSSIAN SLEEP MACHINE, somniatron, electrosone, blah, blah, blah and an American version as well!!!! Some great online pics of these!!! MUSEUM OF MEDICAL ELECTROTHERAPY INSTRUMENTS http://www.chss.montclair.edu/~pererat/mquack.html I asked him what his thoughts on the Clarus clearwave was since he had it posted as; ---------------------------- OTHER POSSIBLY 'BENEFICIAL' ELECTRICAL DEVICES: THE CLARUS ANTI-EMF DEVICE:(12KB) In recent years, considerable concern has been voiced regarding the possibly dangerous effects of Electromagnetic Fields (EMF) such as those produced by power lines, radio transmitters, and cellular telephones. The Clarus anti-emf device claims to use ACD (Accumulated Capacitance Dispersion) Technology (tm) specifically developed for residential and commercial environments to reduce or eliminate the presence of possibly dangerous electromagnetic fields. Other versions of Clarus ACD technology are also available for computer, video, vehicle, commercial, and industrial applications. It carries a label which reads: "The Clarus system has been developed for experimental purposes only. It does not directly or indirectly diagnose, prescribe, or treat any health problems. Persons using it do so for experimental purposes only." Opening the case reveals that it is a commercially produced digital table clock and a coil of wire hooked to an oscilloscope shows that its internal transformer and other parts radiate a 60Hz emf field of it's own. ---------------------------- here is part of his response; -------------- Subject: Re: Electrotherapy Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:40:30 -0500 From: Tom Perera Organization: Montclair State University To: donadams@telusplanet.net References: 1 Hello Don... Thanks for your email... I've been studying electrotherapy devices for 33 years and I make it a policy not to comment on any of the devices with respect to their effectiveness or lack, therof... I do, however, comment on the results of my tests which indicate, in the case of the Claris that it radiates more 60Hz emf than is present in the room in which it is tested... Using a wide-bandwidth oscilloscope, I measured the peak-to-peak voltage present in the room. When I turned on the Claris 1 foot away from my probe, the peak-to-peak voltage increased... With respect to the Russian Sleep Machine, Many people have asked about it over the past 30 years... and I have done a great deal of research on it's effects... Best Regards, Tom Perera Professor of Psychology Montclair State University Upper Montclair, NJ 07043 ----------------------- So it seems like he considers this to be a lot of hooey!? I sure would like to find out how to contact Clarus directly to see what they thought of all this... but still I'm left with no definitive answer... is Toms assessment comprehensive? Is he missing something? Is he right on track and has he discovered a scam game going on? Should I buy a Q-Link pendant and hope that despite some of the dubious metaphysical mumble speak that maybe there is actually some hard scince involved that may actually provide some benefits? Who knows.... siigh... any comments folks? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 15:41:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05412; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:40:00 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:40:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903102338.RAA15911@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: proverb Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:37:22 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SbT5o1.0.SK1.CBmvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9267 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey, Guys, Here's an old proverb that I just made up; "An ignorant conviction is impregnable" Joe Portman 3/10/99 It's for those of you who collect old sayings as I do.......<:-] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 15:48:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29625; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:48:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:48:16 -0800 Message-Id: <199903102348.RAA02572@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Breaking news Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:46:38 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PjBMb3.0.kE7._Imvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9268 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: With all the other gadgets I'm seeing lately, these shoud fit in; A sundial wristwatch that comes with a small flashlight attached, so you can tell time after dark. This is my invention of late; A magnetic ring for the little toe that prevents corns. All seriousness aside, these actually work !!! Joe Portman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 15:52:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08940; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:51:28 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:51:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E824C8.6F52@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:17:12 -0800 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: donadams@telusplanet.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> <36e78a2d.42415159@smtp.zipworld.com.au> <36E7EFE9.55A8@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <36E6B99B.B4985CFE@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ApYbr.0.YB2.xLmvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9269 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don, > > I've heard these rumours also, and generally thats what they are... > rumours...likely distributed by those who find this information, for > whatever personal reasons... uncomfortable. The interesting thing is > that solid references are almost never provided by those who say > such things. I'm sure you're not in that category. Could you provide > please; WHO discovered this evidence you speak of, WHEN did they find it > and WHERE can it be easily referenced? > > Checked it out, and this alternative view (complete with details, dates, references and a multitude of relevant links) can be found at; http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html and at; http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html SR == From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 16:12:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08346; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:12:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:12:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199903102334.RAA15177@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:32:51 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hkmQS1.0.J22.Yfmvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9270 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How about Jack Northrop's proto, huge flying wing, (airplane)of the 40's/50's. He was also first with the swept wing. Joe Portman ============ ---------- > From: Patrick Bailey > To: I_UFO-L > Cc: UFO UpDates - Toronto ; BCC: UFO_Send_List ; Freengr List > Subject: Phoenix Lights vs. the TR-3B Flying Triangle > Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 5:16 PM > > I agree with others that I am having a time hard believing the data on Ed > Fouche's website and in his book "Alien Rapture". > > Fouche's Website = http://www.fouchemedia.com > > After all, if it were absolutely true, why is that data still there on the > web, and why is Ed still walking around? We are taking here of data from > S-4 (cf - Bob Lazar), not Groom Lake. Much more sensitive data... > > Also - > > I'd like to remind all of you that at the Feb. 1999 International UFO > Congress, Peter Davenport (of the US UFO Reporting Center) gave a real good > talk which included a detailed summary of the "Phoenix Triangle" events of > March 13, 1997. I have an audiotape of his talk, and they are available > NOW from the Congress, at http://www.ufocongress.com. > > That was NOT any TR-3B. > > Several witnesses described it as a huge flying wing, with five lights (not > 3), and how it was 4 fist-lengths long (at arms length) when it stopped > over Phoenix, Peter said at 7,000 to 10,000 feet, so this would make that > craft somewhere between 1 and 2 MILES long. > > That size seems too big! Too bad. > > A mom and her kids all saw it for over 3 minutes. It stopped dead over > them for at least 3 minutes, absolutely silent. > > An F-15 pilot from Luke AFB (2 F-15s used for Air Force 1 and 2 cover, not > assigned to the base) intercepted the craft. An audiotape from an airman > at the base says that the base was "closed" after the intercept. Peter > said the pilot had to be lifted from his cockpit seat (shock?). Peter also > said that the US may have gone to DEFCON 3 that day, and if so, that would > account for how Pres. Clinton may have injured his knee (running from the > AU golf player's house in FL(?) to a safe haven). It all seems to fit... > > You don't believe me? Here's the transcript of that airman's tape: > http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/CB970313a.html . > > Other witnesses on that tape describe how it took them 2.5 minutes to go > underneath that craft at 80 mph, when they were going North into Phoenix. > One witness was there at the Congress and personally testified on the > micreophone to that statement - she came all the way from Tuscon just to do > that for Peter. [2.5*60]*[80*(88/60)]/5280 = 3.3 miles! > > THE PHOENIX LIGHTS were this (or perhaps several) LARGE TRIANGLES!!! > > They were not the lights, flares, or whatever they were - that hung in the > air and traced the outline of the ridge of a local mountain range an hour > (or 2 hours?) after the triangle(s) passed over Phoenix. > > Get it right! > > > US UFO Reporting Center: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/ > > > PB. > http://www.padrak.com/ufo/ > > For the first time in all my years of research, I am truly in awe. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 17:03:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24310; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:03:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:03:26 -0800 To: donadams@telusplanet.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:02:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Trinity Message-ID: <19990310.200206.-375417.0.shea6@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,59,63-65 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Shaughn Shea Resent-Message-ID: <"_NWxf3.0.cx5.TPnvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9272 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, I restrained myself before, but no more. Don, you seem to be an intelligent enough of a character; your text is eloquent, albeit eloquence is often logic on fire. You speak of an open mind, and I believe you believe that you yourself possess one. Consider it in this way, your open mind is like a looking glass, and you have polished it perfectly clear. The only trouble is that you still are looking through a looking glass, and your field of vision is restricted. Scientific method, which CAN be applied to anything (though not always useful), doesn't allow you to find what you're looking for. The point is NOT to be looking for something, or else you, intentionally or subconscienciously, create a self-fulfilling prophesy. One must look at everything, to the best of one's ability, and THEN see what one winds. Searching documents, "great" or benign, old or new, for the purpose of finding whether or not there is a hidden code is not scientific. It's illogical. You yourself have given us an example of the worst kind of tampering, although at the time you used it to justify yourself. You must include all into the sample, and by saying that the Vedas weren't encoded and that's why they aren't (as yet, some nut will) hailed as prophetic. That's tampering with the evidence. To be justify encoding as such, one would have to provide a range of documents to a wide, and I mean very wide, set of individuals, maybe be even plug the texts into some SG mainframes and have all read the documents, with no purpose known to them, and ask them what, if anything they have discovered. Most will answer to the basic literal interpretation of the texts, but if a percent, say above 15%, find something there, then that merits further investigation. The test must be repeated, with a different sample, by another, just to confirm that the results weren't fudged, that it wasn't random chance, and that the criteria for that 15% wasn't too vague. If after multiple samples, the percentage remains, then you have found something quite remarkable, and experiments with different documents, or a change in the order in which they are read should be done, to narrow the field. For, it could be that one document trained (or opened) the mind to analyze different aspects of another. Or possibly the mind is prejudiced by one document to perceive something in another document that may or may not be there/intended. To say that this is too strict is foolish. To say that not all documents are "encoded" or that the encoding is subtle, and/or that one must know the "cipher" to decode it is tangent to claiming that the sky is purple...You just have to where these special purple sunglasses to see it. As you see, regardless of weak arguments before, there isn't anything to be found in these documents, at least nothing that has been found yet. I think it would be wonderful to have some "hand of God" guiding these authors to encode these documents to guide those lost in the millennia ahead, but it is not to be. Such "damning" facts to prove that there is prophecy all involve applying our times, language, values, morals, "common sense", and reason on these past peoples, things that these peoples did not have. Consider the case of the Australian aborigine, they had no name for what we now call the kangaroo. To them naming an animal that does little or nothing to/for them was silly. When the white man first came to Australia, our need to label most everything needed to label the Kangaroo. We asked the aborigines what it was called, and the puzzled but not too concerned aborigine replied the aboriginal word for "I don't know." The word? The word was "kangaroo". The point is that they earlier peoples didn't intend to encode secret messages for the skilled, lucky, or blessed. To them the basic text was amazingly prophetic and powerful. They took it literally. We can't apply our romanticism to it. Hell, romanticism as a literary form didn't even come until after the Puritans. Nothing has been found yet, and likely nothing will. It is fantasy. This kind of psuedoscience is even worse than the commercial closed-mindedness that is oft complained about. I'll admit, even science leave room for it to happen, and so will I. But it has not been found yet. Also, before this thread I've heard not of this Eli Rips character before, but I'd have no problem debating with him. His logic, as you have presented it is not sound. Shaughn Shea ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 17:32:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03354; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:32:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:32:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199903110132.TAA05719@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: freq dist Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:31:09 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mNeOU2.0.Jq.yqnvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9273 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "I've spent most all of my life out beyond sigma 2" Joe Portman 3/10/99 I was not alone. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 19:04:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16963; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:03:59 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:03:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E72DC2.D605245E@ghiocel.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:43:14 -0800 From: Dan Ghiocel Organization: Scott Electronic Services LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <19990310.200206.-375417.0.shea6@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"biDlj.0.w84.OApvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9274 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Shaughn Shea wrote: > > Well, I restrained myself before, but no more. > So, what is the point with your long e-mail? So, if you believe the Vedas have prophetic messages, good for you. Every religion uses models for the world around. They are not relevant for a scientific studies, unless somebody uses them as scientific models for an actual scientific purpose. For a scientific mind the very simple concept of trinity is just a model. One does not need to believe in any christian doctrine, in order to understand this simple concept. Dan G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 21:07:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26802; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:07:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:07:17 -0800 Message-ID: <36E73384.74FB30C9@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:07:48 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <19990310.200206.-375417.0.shea6@juno.com> <36E72DC2.D605245E@ghiocel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OYQE03.0.fY6.4-qvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9275 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: nicely said Dan Ghiocel wrote: > > Shaughn Shea wrote: > > > > Well, I restrained myself before, but no more. > > > So, what is the point with your long e-mail? > So, if you believe the Vedas have prophetic messages, good for you. > Every religion uses models for the world around. > They are not relevant for a scientific studies, unless somebody uses > them > as scientific models for an actual scientific purpose. > For a scientific mind the very simple concept of trinity is just a > model. > One does not need to believe in any christian doctrine, in order to > understand > this simple concept. > > Dan G. -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 21:07:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26897; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:07:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:07:25 -0800 Message-ID: <36E73304.6878999@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:05:40 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <19990310.200206.-375417.0.shea6@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"COQBX1.0.vZ6.B-qvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9276 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Shaughn, Shaughn Shea wrote: > > Well, I restrained myself before, but no more. > > Don, you seem to be an intelligent enough of a character; your text is > eloquent, albeit eloquence is often logic on fire. thanks for the compliments... is this where I get ready to duck? You speak of an open > mind, and I believe you believe that you yourself possess one. I believe that you believe I think I do. > Consider > it in this way, your open mind is like a looking glass, and you have > polished it perfectly clear. The only trouble is that you still are > looking through a looking glass, and your field of vision is restricted. I've heard this before, and it makes sense as it did then.... sure... > Scientific method, which CAN be applied to anything (though not always > useful), doesn't allow you to find what you're looking for. The point is > NOT to be looking for something, or else you, intentionally or > subconscienciously, create a self-fulfilling prophesy. I had a friend once who studied of all things, the Philosophy of Science. It was at a local university here in Alberta, Canada. He and I had some hot debates and I found myself quite chagrined with some of the things he was saying. But, he made some good points that I had to confess made a lot of sense... one of which is that the 'Scientific Method' itself needs to be constantly questioned. Your definition above is great, in many ways I'd agree with you... but then as you so 'eloquently' point out how can we realistically define even it and use it with any degree of certainty. How do we know, that what we know, we truly know? etc. etc. >One must look at > everything, to the best of one's ability, and THEN see what one winds. sure, I agree...what else can we do? > Searching documents, "great" or benign, old or new, for the purpose of > finding whether or not there is a hidden code is not scientific. It's > illogical. because? Actually, if I understand correctly, this phenomenon itself in accordance with your definition of the scientific method above was discovered initially by accident and with out meaning to find anything of a specific nature. In fact this process has been discovered and rediscovered, it seems by a wide number of entirely different people from different times and regions... its only now, supposedly, with the advent of computers that things are really heating up. >You yourself have given us an example of the worst kind of > tampering, although at the time you used it to justify yourself. You must > include all into the sample, and by saying that the Vedas weren't > encoded and that's why they aren't (as yet, some nut will) hailed as > prophetic. Shaughn, look... I'm going to try to be as polite here with you as possible since you've made some small effort to do this with me and since this is begininng to get ridiculous. I made one small observation that could have been easily taken for what it was... but instead it looks like I've gone and stirred up a hornets nest and bebothered a swarm of pontificating Gnostics who wish to more to focus on accolades of their publicly demonstrated all encompassing knowledge... how dare some rebel pop in with info that might just upset their applecart and change the whole game? If one were TRULY so concerned about the perceived 'scientific method' one would at least spend a modicum of time and effort in investigation instead of simply stating indignation and trying to squash the messenger. First you say I tampered, sir, I challenge you completely and unequivocally on this issue. I did NOT say the Vedas were not encoded! I simply implied I thought it was likely they would be found to have a lower level of encoding if any at all. I also said that I would welcome anyones authentic findings of beneficial information gleaned from the Vedas using such a process. I certainly did not say they were NOT prophetic or unable to be found to be so. I would suggest, that instead of expressing an emotional upset over what you think I said, you should go back over the messages I wrote and read them again. > That's tampering with the evidence. the very fact you would accuse me of such a thing with out an obvious fair assesment appears to imply you have motives other than simply applying the scientifc method To be justify encoding as > such, huh? >one would have to one would 'HAVE' to? Are you implying then that you have expert credentials in the analysis of ancient documents and applying proper data parsing, skip interal routines? If so, could you tell me what your credentials in document analysis would be? > provide a range of documents to a wide, and I > mean very wide, set of individuals, maybe be even plug the texts into > some SG mainframes and have all read the documents, with no purpose known > to them, and ask them what, if anything they have discovered. this has been done enough to a degree already to have convinced a large number of govt experts who initially challenged the phenomenon. Now, let me be explicitly clear yet again, I am not 'championing' this as a cause or saying that this is the straight out and out truth, I never did from the beginning, which is obviously something you missed outright in your hurry to crucify me as a heretic. I was quite straightforward in saying directly, that this was all a 'what if what they say was true' scenario. The fact is, like you, I simply don't know for certain one way or the other for myself whether this is true. I do intend to find out however, and plan on acquiring some of this software and perhaps writing some of my own routines for interval skipping. Most will > answer to the basic literal interpretation of the texts, but if a > percent, say above 15%, find something there, then that merits further > investigation. The test must be repeated, with a different sample, by > another, just to confirm that the results weren't fudged, that it wasn't > random chance, and that the criteria for that 15% wasn't too vague. If > after multiple samples, the percentage remains, then you have found > something quite remarkable, and experiments with different documents, or > a change in the order in which they are read should be done, to narrow > the field. yes, thats all lovely... again I'd suggest that if you'd expend the effort and energy to outline how 'you' would handle such a process, certainly you expend even less effort and just review some of the brief history that Drosnin outlines. your above argument has already been thought of and executed in a numner of different ways. For, it could be that one document trained (or opened) the > mind to analyze different aspects of another. Or possibly the mind is > prejudiced by one document to perceive something in another document that > may or may not be there/intended. Shaughn, skip intervals are just that. They find patterns at different precise interval skips. The pattern exists supposedly whether you want it to or not. > To say that this is too strict is > foolish. To say that not all documents are "encoded" or that the encoding > is subtle, and/or that one must know the "cipher" to decode it is tangent > to claiming that the sky is purple...You just have to where these special > purple sunglasses to see it. good lord, what ARE you talking about? This has no relation on the BC at all? Have you read ANY of Drosnins stuff? OR are you just hoping I havent and that you can baffle me with clever sounding arguments concocted on the fly and trust I wont catch on? As you see, regardless of weak arguments > before, oh man... speaking of weak arguments.... guh.... ;) there isn't anything to be found in these documents, at least > nothing that has been found yet. well Shaughn, thanks for setting the record straight... I can't tell you how many govt., private and independent researchers will be so happy that you've cleared up this little issue. Perhaps you should write the world famous, award winning mathematician Eli Rips and tell him it was all just a silly little misunderstanding and you've arrived now to show him the error of his ways? > I think it would be wonderful to have > some "hand of God" guiding these authors to encode these documents to > guide those lost in the millennia ahead, but it is not to be. ahhhhh, now I see.... we've arrived at the crux of the matter. This is all about stress you're feeling about having your worldview impinged upon. Well, no need to fuss so, you still have a number of options open to you so you can bail out and save your perception of a universe with out such things.... here, I'll even toss you one freebie as a courtesy.... Drosnin, an atheist, went through the same stress as yourself and he found that simply viewing it as an unexplainable 'alien' artifact worked really well for him. So you see, now you have an out. Once you've actually taken a serious look at whats going on with these codes, if you arrive at the personal conclusion there is something bizarre going on here you can just 'believe' (but, grin... of course you'll have a difficult time honestly applying the scientific method again since faith and science dont mix right?) its of alien origin. > Such "damning" facts to prove that there is prophecy all involve applying our > times, language, values, morals, "common sense", and reason on these past > peoples, things that these peoples did not have. terribly sorry, but I'm afraid I don't grasp the point your making here, could you be a bit clearer? > Consider the case of the > Australian aborigine, they had no name for what we now call the kangaroo. > To them naming an animal that does little or nothing to/for them was > silly. When the white man first came to Australia, our need to label most > everything needed to label the Kangaroo. We asked the aborigines what it > was called, and the puzzled but not too concerned aborigine replied the > aboriginal word for "I don't know." The word? The word was "kangaroo". > The point is that they earlier peoples didn't intend to encode secret > messages for the skilled, lucky, or blessed. To them the basic text was > amazingly prophetic and powerful. ok, I think I get you now... you speak of applying cultural context, well I hate to tell you this but you've just made my argument for me. Thats one of the staggering things about these codes, man could NOT have written them. In fact one recent expert was quoted as saying that we presently do not have the computational power were we to use every computer resource on the planet to reproduce even a fraction of this. They took it literally. We can't apply > our romanticism to it. youre right, we cant. And in the case of the BC we don't, if true the BC is a phenomenon which is external to us. We literally arent required in the equation, at all if its true, since we never could have constructed such a thing. This is one of the issues that freaks the govt out so much. We could very well be dealing with a computational artifact that makes Clarkes 2001 and 2010 look like Sesame Street. > Hell, romanticism as a literary form didn't even > come until after the Puritans. Nothing has been found yet, and likely > nothing will. It is fantasy. oh c'mon already Mr Vimana, if you expect anyone to take your allegations seriously you have to back them up or havent you heard of the scientific method? I've seen data that appears pretty convincing that says your wrong. Am I absolutely positive? No, not yet...but what I've seen intrigues me ...and scares the hell out of me as well.... and excites me. If this is fantasy, it ranks as the best one I've ever come across... and if it turns out to be real.... cripes!!!! What on earht Romanticism and Puritans have to do with any of this escapes me? > This kind of psuedoscience is even worse > than the commercial closed-mindedness that is oft complained about. Stand your ground sir. You have shown that you can toss casual accusations around but you've been found to be in gross error when assesing me, how can it be certain you havent erred in your assesment of the BC as well? Back up your words, on what basis do you say this is psuedo science? > I'll admit, even science leave room for it to happen, and so will I. really? you say this at the very end of your letter? one sentence? I see you like to try weigh things in your favour regardless of what 'open mindedness' you claim? > But it has not been found yet. prove it > Also, before this thread I've heard not of > this Eli Rips character before, obviously, but yet you can make certain observations and comments about his work. this is not science sir but militant sophistry, the glowing mark of a contemporary, trained in a govt sponsored educational facilty, scientist. the same attitude the catholic church wore when persecuting heretics like Copernicus. > but I'd have no problem debating with > him. His logic, as you have presented it is not sound. I'd love to see it! > Shaughn Shea > violet sunglasses and decides he still likes reality better> Don watches the mime with curiosity, he can't get out of the self imposed box how funny... this is my last word on this for now, if any other gnostics out there are feeling upset by all this, go look into it for yourself and stop bothering me... I only made a simple observation and some of you went ballistic... I wont be baited into devolving into one of your crazy, twisted, endless debates that keeps modifying the original topic for your entertainment... stop pontificating and trying to be smarter than each other or more knowledgeable... go find out for your self if you want to know or grow, do something productive instead of whining about how you think Ive stepped on your toes. > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 21:07:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26965; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:07:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:07:29 -0800 Message-ID: <36E7333E.721AD5D2@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:06:38 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freq dist References: <199903110132.TAA05719@mw3.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dtaKu2.0.8b6.F-qvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9277 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: grin, what does that mean Joe? Joe Portman Sr. wrote: > > "I've spent most all of my life out beyond sigma 2" > Joe Portman 3/10/99 > > I was not alone. -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 21:10:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27646; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:10:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:10:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36E7342D.AB32E09A@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:10:37 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> <36e78a2d.42415159@smtp.zipworld.com.au> <36E7EFE9.55A8@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <36E6B99B.B4985CFE@telusplanet.net> <36E824C8.6F52@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lofWN2.0.fl6.A1rvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9278 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: GRin! FINALLY someone who does a bit of homework, excellent! I'll check this out, my thanks mon ami! I hope this isnt the same one I came across some time ago...after exhaustive searching on the net I only ever found one decent critic of Rips work. While he had good points he also seemed to be off in some areas... lets hope we get something more meaty here, thanks Stuart! Stuart Rae wrote: > > Don, > > > > > I've heard these rumours also, and generally thats what they are... > > rumours...likely distributed by those who find this information, for > > whatever personal reasons... uncomfortable. The interesting thing is > > that solid references are almost never provided by those who say > > such things. I'm sure you're not in that category. Could you provide > > please; WHO discovered this evidence you speak of, WHEN did they find it > > and WHERE can it be easily referenced? > > > > > > Checked it out, and this alternative view (complete with details, dates, > references and a multitude of relevant links) can be found at; > > http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html > > and at; > > http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html > > SR > == -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 22:40:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22953; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:40:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:40:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36E884B4.3647@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:06:28 -0800 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freq dist References: <199903110132.TAA05719@mw3.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tiDhD3.0.Yc5.VLsvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9279 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Joe Portman Sr. wrote: > > "I've spent most all of my life out beyond sigma 2" > Joe Portman 3/10/99 > > I was not alone. > Greetings Joe! I THOUGHT I knew that name from somewhere!! Which sector were you in ?? By the way, which toe should I put your invention on. And will it improve my sex life ??? .....(I should be so lucky?........:-() SR -- P.S. Don't forget August 11th. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 10 23:43:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01999; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:43:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:43:53 -0800 Message-ID: <36E758B1.5DE8DE31@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:46:25 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> <36e78a2d.42415159@smtp.zipworld.com.au> <36E7EFE9.55A8@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <36E6B99B.B4985CFE@telusplanet.net> <36E824C8.6F52@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WKzV41.0.3V.uGtvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9280 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: well... crappy.... nothing new here Stu, thanks for the link but its the same stuff I saw sometime ago.... nutz. I mentioned previously that there had been one critic whom I had earlier read that did merit further consideration, this is he, Brendan McKay. But I've already gone through his stuff and while some of it is worthy of note, its also apparent that he's not addressing the complete phenomenon and has his own axe to grind. Might I suggest instead the following link? http://www.math.washington.edu/~greenber/BibleCode.html this is a half decent link which shows both advocates and critics and gives a more indepth view of what is going on here than McKays sparse site. and >From medieval times, the belief that the Bible contains some type of secret code has fascinated many people, including the great scientist Sir Isaac Newton. Decades ago, Rabbi Weissmand found some interesting patterns in the Hebrew Pentateuch (also known as the Books of Moses, the Torah, and the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament). The computer has made the search much easier in recent years. Robert Kass, editor of Statistical Science wrote: (2) "Our referees were baffled: their prior beliefs made them think the Book of Genesis could not possibly contain meaningful references to modern-day individuals, yet when the authors carried out additional analyses and checks the effect persisted. The paper is thus offered to Statistical Science readers as a challenging puzzle." Harold Gans, a former cryptologist at the US Defense Department replicated the work of the Jerusalem team. He was able to corroborate their results. He further expanded the original study by finding the names of important Jewish individuals and the cities of their birth and death. His "p" value was even more significant. http://www.religioustolerance.org/biblcode.htm Stuart Rae wrote: > > Don, > > > > > I've heard these rumours also, and generally thats what they are... > > rumours...likely distributed by those who find this information, for > > whatever personal reasons... uncomfortable. The interesting thing is > > that solid references are almost never provided by those who say > > such things. I'm sure you're not in that category. Could you provide > > please; WHO discovered this evidence you speak of, WHEN did they find it > > and WHERE can it be easily referenced? > > > > > > Checked it out, and this alternative view (complete with details, dates, > references and a multitude of relevant links) can be found at; > > http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html > > and at; > > http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html > > SR > == -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 00:40:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10599; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:39:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:39:58 -0800 From: dtmiller@nevia.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: looking for Dean T. Miller/colloidal silver Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:39:34 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@nevia.net Message-ID: <36ef801a.168307273@mail.nevia.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA10578 Resent-Message-ID: <"RveYC.0.Vb2.U5uvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9281 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jorg, On Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:17:01 -0700 (MST), "Jorg D. Ostrowski" wrote: > >Does anyone know a new e-mail address (or phone/fax#) for the above? >He had a very useful post on this listserve on Sept.18/98 on the topic of: >"special water, colloidal silver". I was interested the use of CS for >treating (grey)water. Thanks for any help. Jorg Ostrowski Here I am (new ISP), hope I'm registered with Bill. How do you want to treat grey water? Colloidal silver will prevent bacterial growth (in my tests on standing rain water), but I haven't tried it with grey water. If I'm going to use water for drinking, I run it through a water distiller/carbon filter. Water that's to be stored for long periods is treated with a tiny amount of pure bleach and a few drops of colloidal silver. (A stove-top distiller that will produce 1 qt/hour sells for about $150.) -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 00:45:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA11696; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:45:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:45:04 -0800 From: dtmiller@nevia.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Breaking news Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:45:02 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@nevia.net Message-ID: <36f08199.168690635@mail.nevia.net> References: <199903102348.RAA02572@mw1.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <199903102348.RAA02572@mw1.texas.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA11674 Resent-Message-ID: <"27u-f1.0.bs2.GAuvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9282 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Joe, One that really does work is a solar-powered wristwatch. It has 6 tiny (2mm x 4mm) solar cells that charge up a capacitor (I assume) that will run the watch for 30 days with no light. It's a quartz-mechanical watch (not LCD) that's been within 2 seconds of the atomic clock for over 2 months. On Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:46:38 -0600, "Joe Portman Sr." wrote: > With all the other gadgets I'm seeing lately, these shoud fit in; >A sundial wristwatch that comes with a small flashlight attached, so you >can tell time after dark. > This is my invention of late; A magnetic ring for the little toe that >prevents corns. > All seriousness aside, these actually work !!! > >Joe Portman -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 04:02:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA25961; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:02:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 04:02:48 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990311120858.00934c9c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:08:58 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: NOVA "Warnings From The Ice" this week Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id EAA25905 Resent-Message-ID: <"2MUqC2.0.RL6.c3xvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9283 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:35 AM 3/2/99 -0600, you wrote: >***{For those who are worried about the threat of "global warming," I offer >the following equally real danger. Happy fretting! --Mitchell Jones}*** > >>From the WEEKLY WORLD NEWS, May 24, 1994 > >MOSCOW -- Doctors are blaming a rare electrical imbalance in the brain for >the bizarre death of a chess player whose head literally exploded in the >middle of a championship game! > >No one else was hurt in the fatal explosion but four players and three >officials at the Moscow Candidate Masters' Chess Championships were sprayed >with blood and brain matter when Nikolai Titov's head suddenly blew apart. >Experts say he suffered from a condition called Hyper-Cerebral Electrosis >or HCE. > >"He was deep in concentration with his eyes focused on the board," says >Titov's opponent, Vladimir Dobrynin. "All of a sudden his hands flew to his >temples and he screamed in pain. Everyone looked up from their games, >startled by the noise. Then, as if someone had put a bomb in his cranium, >his head popped like a firecracker." > >Incredibly, Titiov's is not the first case in which a person's head has >spontaneously exploded. Five people are known to have died of HCE in the >last 25 years. (snip) Five in the last 25 years? Moscow? Who are you trying to kid? This was probably some kind of scalar wave device. The thing is, I doubt that an exploded head will completely obliterate the life force energy field. All this might end up doing is eliminate the possibility of seeing it coming back. Is the following quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater true I wonder (p342-p343)? _______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. _______________________________________________________________________________ The NOVA show sited evidence of the rates of climate change that occurred in the past from analysis of icecores drilled from the Greenland glacial cap. There is proof that climate changes to, and from, ice age conditions can occur in 20 to 50 years or, as little as 1 to 2 years. There is suggestion that a average global temperatures must stay below a threshold temperature. Once the avererage global temperature is exceeded, rapid climate changes occur and restabilize at a drastically different level. I subscribe to the Viktor Schauberger scenario as follows: 1. Global warming from energy production related CO2 generation greatly increases the water vapor content in the atmosphere. Deforestation of large land tracts also cause increased atmospheric water vapor because the ground is heated from exposure to the sun. This in turn evaporates water from the ground preventing the natural water cycle from occurring. (Do rain and snow patterns lately suggest anything to you?) 2. Increased atmospheric water vapor causes it's envelope to extend further out into the exosphere. Ultraviolet light dissociates the water molecule into a hydrogen and oxygen monatoms. The gravitational pull at the exosphere level is too weak to keep the hydrogen atom from floating out into space. Thus the water is lost forever. 3. At a certain point, atmospheric water vapor levels are too low to insulate the atmosphere. Massive heatloss results and an ice age begins. Do you have any comments on the following 'What's New' items from physicsweb.org Mr. Jones? ________________________________________________________________________________ Antarctic glaciers feel the heat [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is theoretically unstable and that the retreat could become irreversible. Many believe that such an event would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns that are sensitive to small vertical movements. These patterns provide information on the velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this was being caused by an influx of warm water from the Southern Pacific Ocean. Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ą 2 km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay each year, while only 71 ą 7 km3 is replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of centuries. Global warming confirmed from space [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality of global warming. Now, however, calculations by Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing Systems in California have shown that small decays in the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy (Nature 394 661). Previously satellite measurements have suggested that the atmosphere was cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while ground-based instruments showed an increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand outwards, which increases the drag experienced by satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate models and explains why the satellites had seen increased cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. Humans are the cause of climate change [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and solar activity to global warming appears to have been resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with results from two leading computer models. They found that the best fit to the data occurred when this century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to have been caused mainly by mankind's output of greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse gases and changes in the sun's output. Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer models four times, each time with a different set of parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising levels of greenhouse gases. They first found that there was wide discrepancies between the output of both computer models and the experimental data in the first data set. This indicated that some mechanism was increasing the global temperature this century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming experiment), the only model that matched both simulation and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. According to Wigley: "These results provide another important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, they provide additional evidence that the models used to make projections of future climate change are realistic." ________________________________________________________________________________ By coincidence, right after the NOVA show was FRONTLINE. The topic was America's war on marijuana. What drew my attention was the statement of an officer who said that he was troubled because those he arrested for marijuana spent far and away, much greater time in jail than murderers and rapists. He shrugged that off saying that he only caught them, and that he doesn't make the law. I wonder when God eventually asks him why did he do it when he knew it was wrong, will God accept that answer? At any rate, those supposedly suppressing advanced technology which might stop or reverse the global warming process probably believe a similar idea to justify their actions in the face of growing climate change evidence and an increasing feeling of wrong doing in their gut. They have the upper hand, and are actively making a moral choice by taking such a course of action. The question is, if they are wrong, and the sh*t really hits the fan by the climate triggering to a different level, should these people be held accountable for their actions of ultimate sin by those who survive? Should those who are 'pulled in' for working on this technology make do the best they can and perhaps inform fellow inmates of proven violent behavior patterns (they're the ones who'll get out first) the possible truth about suppressed technology which could save our world. I'm not afraid of dying. Death would relieve stress and pressure from my obligations and responsibilites. Abilities in higher dimensions may even prove interesting. The important thing to me is that I would be able to say to God that I tried my 100% very best. One thing's for certain though, I would be INCREDIBLY PISSED OFF at those responsible! Jumpin' Jehovah! Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 05:48:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA16929; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 05:48:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 05:48:16 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Macon Co. meanderings. Message-Id: <921160069.14252.636@excite.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 05:47:49 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.49 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"2wY0n3.0.M84.Vcyvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9284 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dont mind me; I am just talking to myself. Take it with a grain of salt. > I am looking to pay good money to anyone who can supply a means to make a >1000 watt AC signal reproduce in quadrature to powere another 1000 watts. I >dont care if it takes 20,000 watts to do this or not. >> It seems that I have overstated my needs here. The input I wish can be 334 watts; specifically 440 AC volts @ .75A at 60hz. I did not realize that power amps could be used at 60 hz. At http://wwwtricountyi.net/~randerse/rotating.htm shows a quadrature oscillator circuit: surely this would be impractical to scale up to 440 volts @ .75 A? Since this seems like a easy to solve problem, I can only assume I don't under stand the problem? >> I understand how create a high frequency phenomenon with heavy induction coils, I simple want to be able to do this with an additional phase in quadrature. At http://wwwtricountyi.net/~randerse/lfg.htm the lorentz force on a axial electric field created in an axial electrolytic cell is shown. If the magnetic field instead osscillated from a large winded copper magnetic coil around the electrolysis cell the lorentz force would also osscillate. If we further modify this picture by temporarily taking the battery out of the picture and coating the central electrode with a thin poly layer we can make the approximation of what I have termed before as a flux capacitor. We have two quantities; L and C. L and C are two values that will resonate at their respective resonant frequency. However now L and C have a new condition because their magnetic and electric fields now exist at right angles in space. Now the displacement currents across the capacity are no where near the volume that actually occured when the unit was operated as an electrolysis cell, and at 60 hz virtually no lorentz interaction from a capacitive displacement current is noted in this example. However in the process involved at much higher frequencies, namely 166,000 hz the effect of the lorentz interaction with the higher capacitive displacement currents becomes experimentally evident. In one experiment I was able to increase conduction through water medium by using a lorentz interaction. However this should not have happened since the lorentz force opposed the battery voltage 50 % of the time. In order to enter this kind of picture we can imagine a radial fin assembly inserted into the water capacitor. Now we can hook the battery back into the picture. Every other plate of the radial fin assembly is attached to the same polarity of the battery. In this new geometry the lorentz force will be aiding 50% of the cells and opposing the other 50%. That isnt good enough because I want to make it not only 100% but a theoretical consideration of 140% or further. In the preceeding example of a flux capacitor several parameters should be established. First an actual 60 hz flux capacitor with water as a core would be exceedingly large, if not impossible as I have described it with a single coaxial field. This is because the required volume of the electric field would far exceed the volume of space available in the air core. However inventive methods can still be used that the full voltage of a capacitive bank can be placed across such a water capacitor. Also the effectiveness of the invention is thereby reduced in that example.In fact the whole idea of a flux capacitor as a free energy machine is fundamentally flawed. In that idea a special alteration was made so that the fields in resonance share the same SPACE. They do not share the same TIME. Those fields practically miss each other in the spatial interaction whereby the fullest interaction would be when .707 of a expanding electric field can react with .707 of a collapsing magnetic field. Anyone understanding this conversation of a flux cap should also realize that this derived interaction will be twice the input freq. One just doesnt completely throw an idea out the window: perhaps this method could be useful for achieving a second harmonic. Right in this discourse that is off topic; what I am trying to do is get people to see the same possibility I see. If I could reproduce what I have already done with a single phase identically concurrent in a quadrature I would have a condition where one phase could contain a full ELECTRIC field at the SAME time as the other phase contained a full MAGNETIC field. The air core, or in this diamagnetic analogy ,a water core, could be juxtaposed so that the full magnetic field could interact in the same space as the other phases electric field. By this means one systems draw of kinetic energy expressed as MAGNETIC energy can be at a maximum at the same time as the other system's potential energy is MAXIMUM contained in an ELECTRIC field instantaneously drawing ZERO energy but yet interacting in SPACE and TIMING to produce a lorentz output that does not oscillate but pulses in ONE direction. It is my misunderstanding that that lorentz interaction should contain 40% more energy than either field alone, and since only one signal is inputing energy at maximum interaction I have taken a hillbilly physicists view on the matter. This is because every armchair theorist without a degree is allowed to visualize a conception in the geometry of the ether until it becomes a physical reality. So I am so disturbed about this conception because it has already taken 5 years of effort and it still is not there on the physical plane. The same exact comparison exists in the formation of the second mathematical magic square. On the first square formed from nine numbers only one possible solution is presented out of all the possibilities numbering 9! Now even though only one solution is available it can be looked at in 8 differing viewpoints all representing the same solution. This means that any no. in the outsidearray could be placed anywhere else 8 different ways, but not 9. If it were 9 it might be able to change position with the center square which would violate it being a magic square because 5 , the middle no. between 1 and 9 is god in this arrangement. No one will displace god as the center of the first magic square,otherwise the magic is destroyed. In the second level of a magic square 5 is replaced by something that can be moved around. A center no longer exists. This goes from a single solution into many possible solutions into the very next symmetry which is duplicated in every whichway replication that can be imagined. This is not replicated again in any other square I know of. Too me it represents a sort of mathematical big bang. Every level DOES exist and the third is a square of 25 no.s This is the second pattern of organization that is revealed as a blueprint. This will occur as an oscillation so that every future odd magic square has a parent blueprint governed by 3 diagonal laws. 36 becomes the first bastard square as I would call it; 6*6, an ungodly mix between even and odd. The first time you see this creature will not be the last: it also oscillates. Its next incarnation appears as the magic square of 100 numbers, or 10 to a side. 49 is the third echoe of square 3. The distinguishing characteristic is that a simple GEOMETRIC pattern begins to establish itself, formulating as 3 laws of diagonal progression. 64 will reveal the first complex transformation of the first big bang. They dont call it I Ching for nothing. The principles of its organization are traditionally traced to its predecessor 16. What might be interpreted as a loss of mobility is made up by the fantastic amount of possibilities contained in the positions of the numbers that can move places in the array and still become a magic square. To illustrate my understanding and study in this manner I could show how 64 numbers can be put into uniform position of 8 columns of 8 in counting order from 1- 64. Half the numbers can be left in the same place and the other ones can change places according to 3 other laws to make a formation of a single 64 magic square. Or I would easily imagine that all the numbers could change places as a solution. 81 would be 9 to a side and every time we see a odd square another corresponding thing is noticed. The center cannot move from the uniform position in order to remain a magic square, but every other no will move to different location. Because of the fact that the first odd square of 9 had only one unique solution and the first even square of 16 had many solutions, it was supposed that this carries on up the ladder. However this investigation has not even reached a 100 magic square yet. 100 Over 100 trillion combinations exist as a solution, yet it is very hard to find one, even knowing the pattern of organization that will supply a majority of the correct locationsof no.s 121 A 5th grader in elementary school can readily construct this magic square from memory by seeing it one time and memorizing it. 144 A look at this is complicated and no pattern reveals itself until the internal organization is known. However I was able to make this obscenely large magic square without a calculator during the months of repression in jail. 13 *13 is enough to stop there and make some analogies. I have read that a succesion of even harmonics might add to produce the effect of a square wave; and that of odd harmonics to produce a triangular. In the 13th square a succession on triangles in the train of numbers is evident as in all these odd numbered squares, yet I could interchange the second column with the 12th column and it will still produce a magic 13th square. I could interchange the 2nd row with the 12th row and still have the same magic square. I could likewise change the 3rd and 4th and to make the former organization of structure to appear to have no coherent structure. Yet it will still produce the same magic square. Perhaps modulations of EM waves could be done like this. Sorry for being out to lunch here chop/chop I dont know what I am talking about but it is better to express an opinion before it can be dismissed so easily HDN Let us look about how these 8 viewpoints are arrived at using mirrors. Only one solution is available which contains 4 sides. A mirror can be placed on each of these sides. One would suppose that this should generate 4 mirror images. But an examination of these mirror images reveals a set of duplicates; actually only two new images have been formed from one. Thus 3 images have been found. The two mirror images exist at right angles to each other from the original. Another mirror image to theirs generates another set of duplicates which fills in the 4 corners expressing a reflection of a reflection. This is also viewed as a diagonal reflection from the central correct nine no. magic magic square. Each of the corner reflections are themselves relections from three sources which consists of every side they touch. Yet all of these 8 reflections are themselves sets of duplicates which means only 5 unique solutions have shown themselves counting the originating magic square. Something is wrong with the thinking here and I am leaving it as a puzzle. There are two small towns called Desolate and Defeated in Macon County Tenn if I am not mistaken they are near about. I remember going through there on the way home one time. That is what I remembered when I got this far off topic. In such a situation it can probably be true that even logical arguments cannot persuade me from pursuing this obssession. I have the 4 necessary 20,000 wind 23 gauge coils. I have the necessary plastic welding equipment to make 4 electrolysis cells. I have spent $1500.00 on a mechanical generator to produce this effect which so far has been a fiasco. If someone like Bob Shannon or anyone else on the list could make a solid state quadrature oscillator to power my two prototypes this would be good if it acted the same way as a 440 volt transformer can work. It conceivably would have to be protected by HF chokes the same way a tesla primary has to be protected. The idea I am dealing with does not just encompass the discussion already made, but goes deeper into something else. It is hard to present two ideas at once so I have not included a discussion about how the high frequency is created totally different to that of a tesla primary. I speculate that the connection of the lorentz reaction actually only copies a three dimensional gyroscopic precession observed in nature. But if you want two thousand watt outputs with a 90-degree phase shift, you can find quadrature op-amp circuits in the Op-Amp cook book. Then use two Class-D power amps to get your 1,000 watts. Class-D amps are getting easier to find in high power levels. >If anyone can take this challenge I am always willing to pay for my >misunderstanding.HDN I'll send you my bill. :-) -->> Thats okay: I couldnt find the Op-Amp Cook Book I havent described the conditions of abuse the signal might be subjected too either. My inferior knowledge of electronics makes me persist in asking questions. Harvich _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 06:16:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA25907; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:15:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:15:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199903111415.IAA07097@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: freq dist Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:14:18 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ddbxp1.0.iK6.Q0zvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9285 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Read between the lines........ ---------- > From: Stuart Rae > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: freq dist > Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 9:06 PM > > Joe Portman Sr. wrote: > > > > > "I've spent most all of my life out beyond sigma 2" > > Joe Portman 3/10/99 > > > > I was not alone. > > > > Greetings Joe! > > I THOUGHT I knew that name from somewhere!! Where ??? > > Which sector were you in ?? > +sigma 5 > By the way, which toe should I put your invention on. And will it improve my > sex life ??? .....(I should be so lucky?........:-() Put it on your worst toe first. If you put it elsewhere, it will definitely improve you sex life. Once you put it on, and then get it up, it stays up forever.....so watch it !!! > > SR > -- > > P.S. Don't forget August 11th. Next time you have sex, do not think of a small firetruck running back and forth over your body. Thanks for the reply....Joe......<:-] > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 06:18:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA27744; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:18:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:18:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:17:26 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: "Dean T. Miller" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Breaking news In-Reply-To: <36f08199.168690635@mail.nevia.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CAn_a.0.Ln6.13zvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9286 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You said:"One that really does work is a solar-powered wristwatch. It has 6 tiny (2mm x 4mm) solar cells that charge up a capacitor (I assume) that will run the watch for 30 days with no light. It's a quartz-mechanical watch (not LCD) that's been within 2 seconds of the atomic clock for over 2 months." ______________________________________________________________________ Dean: Who is the manufacturer? Jorg Ostrowski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 06:51:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12841; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:50:19 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:50:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:48:29 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: "Dean T. Miller" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: alternative water treatment In-Reply-To: <36ef801a.168307273@mail.nevia.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-IwUP1.0.Y83.dWzvs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9287 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dean: Thanks for getting back. I would like to kill any bacteria, viruses, pathogens and parasites in our closed-loop greywater system before and after use. All greywater in our sustainable home/office, after temporary storage, is treated in one of 3 separate treatment systems in the greenhouse including a solar aquatic system filled with vegetables, marshes, fish and other marine life forms. Drinking water (10% of all water used) comes from the roof. I would like to try treating my drinking, reuse and greywater by: 1) bioradiantion (either Dr. Hulda Clark's "Zapper" or Dr.Bob Beck/Thomas Miller's "Bioelectrifier" 2) colloidal silver to kill the pathogens, to avoid H2S in stagnant greywater, to be environmentally healthy (ie. no bleach), and to be far more energy-efficient than UV (using 270 kWh/year). HAS YOU OR ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCE OR MORE INFORMATION OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES FOR THESE APPLICATIONS? Jorg Ostrowski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 07:21:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA16882; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:21:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:21:22 -0800 Message-ID: <01bd01be6bda$e0157de0$5d1a0fcb@gsawyer> Reply-To: "Glenville T. Sawyer" From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" To: Subject: Re: Breaking news Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:45:48 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"ME3AX2.0.d74.nzzvs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9288 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Glenville T. Sawyer - South Australia Theatre, Concert Lighting, Special Effects, Props. & more ! Embedded Control systems for Theatrical & other Applications http://gsawyer.mtx.net/ -----Original Message----- From: Joe Portman Sr. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 09:18 Subject: Breaking news > With all the other gadgets I'm seeing lately, these shoud fit in; >A sundial wristwatch that comes with a small flashlight attached, so you >can tell time after dark. > All seriousness aside, these actually work !!! >Joe Portman In the latest online issue of "Everyday Practical Electronics" (that I happen to write for occasionally), is a build it yourself design for a wristwatch that charges up a small 1 farad capacitor, it adds to the charge every time you move your wrist - And if that has not opened a flood gate for comments about who /whom on this list will have the most highly charged watch, then I don't know what will !!! :-) It is a true article, but could not resist the "obvious" (and somewhat underhand I might add) comment ! Could this prove to be a new incarnation of the once popular item on this list - the "Joe watch" ? :-) Ah' well back to work again I suppose, Glenville. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 09:08:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA15579; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:07:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:07:08 -0800 From: "Martin" To: Subject: High energy info wanted. Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:49:57 +0200 Message-ID: <01be6bdf$34a10740$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"H-9YE3.0.xo3.uW_vs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9289 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Does anyone happen to have schematics or know where I can find any for a Marx type generator or any other form of High energy pulser for use in Exploding water and EM experiments? Martin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 11:50:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24844; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:49:56 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:49:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E81A07.E21CC0B7@harti.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:31:19 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , Evan Soule Subject: Re: Joe =?iso-8859-1?Q?Newman=B4s?= new motor data analysis References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ko_NJ3.0.346.Pv1ws"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9290 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > Joseph Newman responds: > > "Sorry, but you have not mastered my book. > > Again: The test is on one Motor (Newman Technology) --- > > A = uses a "12" volt deep cell 105 amp hour battery. > > B = use alkaline "6" volt dry cell batteries in series for "60" volts. > I see, test A just uses a car battery with 12 Volts and test B uses 60 Volts from a series of dry cell batteries. Now it gets clearer. > In A Motor, the rotary will not turn because the back emf is greater than > the 12 volt input IF Motor moves at all. Or the current is just too small to build up a big enough magnetic field to overcome the friction of the rotor ball bearings ! The DC resistance of the motor coils seems to be 60 Ohms cause 12 Volts / 0.2 Amps = 60 Ohms (the rotor did not turn !) > Example: if Motor is turned by > hand (even extremely slowly) at the Motor shaft while test A is being > conducted, then the current flow drops from .2 amp to 0 (zero) or NEGATIVE! You use it as a generator in this case. As there are many windings on the motor coil and the B field of the permanent stator magnet is high, you can generate easily more than the 12 Volts of the battery when you turn the shaft by hand and thus the current gets negative flowing back to the battery and charging it ! This usually is called generator mode. I agree. > > Higher voltage overcomes this Okay. >and Motor rotates with noticeably higher torque Why does it have a higher torque ? Are you saying it does have a higher torque than a DC motor with 12 Volts input and 0.05 Ampere current draw at the same 40 RPM ?? (equals the same 0.6 Watts input) >and the back emf from the collapsing magnetic field keeps the > current flow from the battery pack extremely low! > I agree, that the stored magnetic field energy is re-used in the Newman motor by recharging the batteries via the commutator spark gap or lightning the neon bulbs. > Further Proof: > > *** YOU DO NOT KNOW OF *ANY* CONVENTIONAL MOTOR HAVING A 140-LB ROTARY THAT > WILL RUN OFF OF ONLY .6 watts! *** It only depens on the friction of the ball bearings inside the motor. You could probably rotate it with 0.1 Watts if you make the ball bearings even better and donīt have any air flow friction. That is no real argument, cause I could keep rotating a 2 tons body with 0.6 Watts, if the friction is almost zero ! It seems, that the Newman motor runs at 40 RPM (posted earlier) powered by 60 Volts and consumes 0.6 Watts, which means an average current of 10 milliamps is flowing from the battery into the motor. This is just the case overcoming the friction of the ball bearings to let the 70 Kg rotor rotate at 40 RPM. I wonder if a different DC motor with 12 Volts input is able to rotate a 70 Kg rotor with just 50 milliamps ? I guess yes, if the ball bearings are designed right and friction is almost zero. The most important question still reamins unanswered: How does the Newman motor perform, when it is loaded with a real load, e.g. powering an AC generator to produce 60 Hz AC power for the household ? Does it really produce this much more torque, than a normal motor ? Can this motor-generator combination run self sustained ? Is the new Newman motor mechanically overunity ? (producing more mechanical output power than DC input power at e.g. driving a 1000 Watt mechanical load) I would appreciate it to hear any comments. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 14:18:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18983; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:18:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:18:18 -0800 Message-ID: <36E82AF4.FB047726@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:43:32 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz Subject: Refuting crtics of Bible Codes - McKay in question? References: <339f057c.36e58c33@aol.com> <36E58D59.6B840B1D@telusplanet.net> <36e78a2d.42415159@smtp.zipworld.com.au> <36E7EFE9.55A8@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <36E6B99B.B4985CFE@telusplanet.net> <36E824C8.6F52@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ic3rE2.0.Qe4.d44ws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9291 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A letter from an acquaintence follows that I'm sure you will find MOST interesting.... grin bydand.... --------------------- Did you know that Dr. Brendan McKay, Dr. Dror Bar-Natan and other Bible codes critics are being paid to criticize the Bible codes by a large foundation? Dr. McKay told this directly to the producer of the TV program that did the recent documentary on the Bible codes. Dr. Dror Bar Natan stated in a recent public address on the subject in Jerusalem, "no matter how much evidence there is for the validity of the Torah codes, we cannot accept it, because then it would prove that God wrote the Torah and it is true." The findings of the Bible codes have gone far beyond those simplistic matrixes you might have seen in Michael Drosnin's book, The Bible Code. Some of these will be in an upcoming one-hour TV program to premiere in May 1999 on the Pax Network. I'm working closely with the producers and they have started filming this week. For example, there appears to be a matrix on the life of each person. My Thomas Edison matrix has over 75 terms that show his dates of birth and death, both wives, places lived, and over 25 inventions in a visual matrix. The producers asked me to to a matrix on certain topics for the show. One example is the 1998 homerun race of Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa. I did this and when I was about done, I realized that it also had all the great homerun hitters of history in the matrix circling the center term. Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron are above the center term in a place of prominence. The 714 HR of Ruth is vertical with the 755 HR of Aaron horizontal and passing through the middle of the 714 of Ruth. Besides Aaron and Ruth, there are Willie Mays, Roger Maris, Mickey Mantle, etc. All together 44 terms. As with all of these matrixes, I'm sure there is much more there, but you have to stop at some point. A.J. has a new website on the Bible codes at: http://www.thebiblecodes.com and he attempts to refute the critics. I've chosen to refute them by actual results. For example, in the upcoming TV show there will be 2 matrixes on future events. If these happen as in the codes, then it goes a long ways in refuting the critics. Of course if they don't happen it doesn't necessarily negate the Bible codes, but it will tarnish my reputation. :-) There is the First World Congress of the Torah Codes Society being held in Jerusalem, May 10-11, 1999. They are calling for scientific paper proposals right now. After the International conference they will publish all papers in a book titled, Torah Codes. That may be a good reference to buy in seeking scientific proof. All I can say is that some guys with science backgrounds shoot off their mouths without having knowledge of the advancements. It reminds me of the outcry against Galileo by the philosophers (science back then) and church against Galileo for proving that the earth revolves around the sun. Without credible evidence to back them up, these paid critics of the Bible codes could be called, "modern flat-earthers." God bless, Roy A. Reinhold From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 16:00:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA17082; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:59:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:59:57 -0800 Message-ID: <000001be6c13$35475bc0$b3ec060c@dlackey> From: "davelook" To: Subject: Re: 3000 yr old OU device Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:44:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"QLnt73.0.jA4.yZ5ws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9292 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The Arc of the Covenant. (You know, I'm sure, that there's a stone box in >the king's chamber of the Giza Pyramid that fits the same dimensions.) I >read a while ago an internet essay (from a search - I don't have the URL) >in which the author made his case that the Giza pyramid was a huge power >plant, splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen - the water was brought up >from the lower chamber to the boz in the king's chamber. I own a book called "The Giza Power Plant" by Christopher Dunn. I t presents a very compelling case for all the strange features of the Great Pyramid. See the reviews at AMAZON. Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 17:38:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24848; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:38:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:38:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199903120137.TAA20839@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re Bible Codes Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:36:25 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ph3rL.0.346.x_6ws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9293 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Bible is primarily for the good of the soul, and then also is a good health guide. We are not supposed to seek out material things. Would not this preclude any hope of finding wealth or machines hidden in code? Joe Portman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 19:10:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12234; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:10:14 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:10:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E86EA2.464090C8@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:32:18 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re Bible Codes References: <199903120137.TAA20839@mw1.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eRj7L2.0.0_2.IM8ws"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9294 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Joe, Joe Portman Sr. wrote: > > The Bible is primarily for the good of the soul, and then also is a good > health guide. good point >We are not supposed to seek out material things. agreed. your very right. > Would not > this preclude any hope of finding wealth or machines hidden in code? Yes, most likely. And I may bee seeking in vain or thinking along inappropriate venues. In fact it may be wrong for me to even consider such things. However, another part of me can't help but ponder... 'what if God always meant for us to have free energy?' What if the only reason we don't have it is because of some evil influence or repression? How do I account for passages such as Ecclisiastes Chapter 8, where enjoying materiality appears cast in a context where it can be deemed acceptable? An interesting passage as it doesn't truly conflict with statements elsewhere, where concerns for this life are discouraged in lieu of the life to come, but rather it seems to provide a contextual understanding or framework similiar to the 'everything has its place, season, etc...' passage. If the BC is true, and I completely understand that I am using a lot of 'IF' statements here, and the reputed codes dealing with Einstein and the missing components of the Unified Field theory is really there...one may wonder why would God deem such a thing important to include there for us to discover? I'm afraid I don't have a complete answer to my current rationale, my apologies mon ami... I have only questions... and hopes, that it may not be a sin to at least search for an answer to questions such as these and see what comes.... I've heard the rumour that Einstein did discover the missing pieces but when he realized what he had come across it spooked him so much he was simply to fearful to ever release the full equation. It is well known that he felt tremendous grief, guilt and angst over the work he had done with nuclear power...the work that later allowed for the destruction of so many and possibly that of all mankind... it seems that this Unified Field theory would have been a much more somber find...who knows? Perhaps some things are better left alone, what pandora's box might lie around the corner? > Joe Portman -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 20:13:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21087; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:13:03 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:13:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990311195340.2e6fc75e@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:53:40 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: High energy info wanted. In-Reply-To: <01be6bdf$34a10740$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kVtOF.0.M95.DH9ws"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9295 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Martin, If you don't already know about it, you might start with Jim Lux' site: http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/hvmain.htm At 06:49 PM 3/11/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi > >Does anyone happen to have schematics or know where I can find any for a >Marx type generator or any other form of High energy pulser for use in >Exploding water and EM experiments? > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 20:27:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20322; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:27:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:27:38 -0800 Message-ID: <36E89803.27A7DDB4@erie.net> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:28:52 -0500 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Joe Newman's new motor data analysis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QGrlU1.0.Rz4.vU9ws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9296 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all list members: I feel it is time to respond to the misleading information being put out in regards to the Newman motor data analysis. In addition, I want to ask some questions, which should have been posed by anyone else who is interested in this "Technology". First of all, all Newman is doing is exchanging voltage for amperage. As we all know, ohms law is inviolate. Has anyone thought to ask what the result would be, if only 12 volts from dry cell batteries were used? Conversely, what would happen if 60 volts of Lead-Acid Batteries were applied to the motor? Joe Newman is assuming he is going to sell a motor which is going to be used for driving a Generator. Let's address that issue. When the Y2K bug (supposedly) is going to knock out the Electric Power Companies, EVERYONE is going to need a backup power source. I have done some research, and came up with the following information: If you are going to use an alternate power source, you are going to have to provide for all of your power needs. The bare minimum of generated power necessary to accomplish this is 4KW. 1KW certainly is not the answer, since your toaster, or Iron will require 1100 watts. With the figure of 4KW in mind, let's address the type of generator needed to accomplish this. The average 4KW generator needs 6HP to drive it. I am assuming a belt driven model, but if you want to use gears, or direct shaft coupling with a "Love-joy" coupler, the results and effects will be the same. (A 2KW Generator requires 4HP to drive it). Both of these Generators MUST turn at 3600 RPM. If Joe Newman expects 60 volts of dry-cell batteries to accomplish this, it will not work. He explains how he gets 40 RPM with 60 volts. He will need NINETY times that number of batteries to reach 3600 RPM! Lets assume, for the sake of argument, that he is going to use a system of gears, or pulleys from his 40 RPM, to increase it to 3600 RPM. Any logically thinking person will immediately ask: Doesn't that mean a tremendous amount of Belt or Gear Friction? Of course! The question now becomes one of adding even more batteries. Actually, the most common sense approach to an emergency (Stand-by) system for Electric Power Backup, is an Inverter. You can get one which is Propane powered, for around $2,000.00. Or if you prefer, you can get one which runs from Deep-cycle, Marine Trolling Batteries. Again, the cost is around $2,000.00. I cannot forsee anyone wanting to purchase an unproven motor for $7,000.00, and still have to buy a generator, which the motor will drive, for another $600.00 to $700.00. In addition, you would have to rig-up your own belt drives, etc.. An off-the-shelf setup is all ready to go. Next, we come to a really "Sticky" problem: The motor is NOT approved by UL (In Canada, CSA). I have checked with Three different Insurance Carriers, and they informed me that even though the Generator itself is UL approved, if the motor is not UL approved, it COULD cause your Homeowners Policy to be Invalidated. In any event, NO Insurance company would pay-off for any damage to your property caused by a non-UL-approved device. To get UL approval, an Electric Motor must be submitted to UL for testing. This requires months of testing, under all conditions, in order for UL to certify that the motor functions as advertised, and under all conditions of weather, temperature, humidity, etc. This can take anywhere from 3 to 9 months. It would be interesting to see if this motor has been so certified. Stephan Hartmann has asked some very pertinent questions about the "Newman" motor. I, personally, do not feel that the questions have been answered to anyone's satisfaction. Furthermore, Stephan has used Newman's "Formula" for years, in various prototypes, and has not yet found an Over- Unity device. In his book, Joe Newman tries to make it sound so simple. When people follow his advice, and it doesn't produce as advertised, they get the reply to the effect that "they can't grasp Joe Newman's teachings"! Now, I must question one other thing about the motor which is being offered for sale, with "PROMISED" delivery by June, 1999. Joe Newman, by his own admission, has over $6,000.00 worth of Neodymium magnets in the prototype motor. How can he sell the entire motor for $7,000.00. If, he decides to replace the Neodymium magnets with Ceramic Magnets, he can then build the motor and sell it for that price. However, the Ceramic Magnets, (Assuming the very best) are only about 60% as strong. The reason that I know this, is because when I was building the prototype, I had to confer with several magnet manufacturers. I have their literature which details the differences between Neodymium and the different grades of ceramic magnets. If I were Stephan Hartmann, I think I would seriously consider questioning Joe Newman on his technology, and exactly who came up with the figures on the test results. I respect Stephan's knowledge and abilities, as I have been studying his own efforts at building a Newman Motor. I feel that Stephan has gone further in his research of the Newman motor, than any person who has attempted to reproduce it. If Stephan can't duplicate the results, they probably can't be achieved. Since I have an intimate knowledge of the prototype, I felt that I should voice my opinion. If I have stepped on anyone's toes, I apologize. I, however, cannot apologize for the questions I have asked, because they should have been asked by several people. Thank You. Respectfully, Norm Biss Erie, Pa. 3-11-99 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 11 23:42:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA12830; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:42:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:42:35 -0800 From: dtmiller@nevia.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Breaking news Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 07:42:36 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@nevia.net Message-ID: <36f16326.226419845@mail.nevia.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA12809 Resent-Message-ID: <"KRAFz1.0.M83.gLCws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9297 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jorg, It's the "Swissolar" by Le Jour. On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:17:26 -0700 (MST), "Jorg D. Ostrowski" wrote: > >You said:"One that really does work is a solar-powered wristwatch. It has >6 tiny (2mm x 4mm) solar cells that charge up a capacitor (I assume) >that will run the watch for 30 days with no light. It's a >quartz-mechanical watch (not LCD) that's been within 2 seconds of the >atomic clock for over 2 months." >______________________________________________________________________ >Dean: Who is the manufacturer? Jorg Ostrowski -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 05:42:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA31321; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:42:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:42:34 -0800 From: Charlie Hodgson Message-Id: <199903121335.IAA00572@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> Subject: Re: Re Bible Codes To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:35:02 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199903120137.TAA20839@mw1.texas.net> from "Joe Portman Sr." at Mar 11, 99 07:36:25 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"ohyRg1.0.Ef7.AdHws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9298 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Joe Portman Sr. said > > The Bible is primarily for the good of the soul, and then also is a good > health guide. We are not supposed to seek out material things. Would not > this preclude any hope of finding wealth or machines hidden in code? > Joe Portman > If indeed the 'plans' for some super machine where encoded in ANY written work (more than two years old) then that would preclude patentability. Without a patent, no one individual would gain tremendous wealth from the discovery. I wouldn't consider plans for a device to help mankind and mother nature out of place in the Bible. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 05:52:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01597; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:52:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:52:29 -0800 Message-ID: <19990312135158.7178.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [152.163.195.193] From: "Randy Hargraves" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 05:51:57 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"O95zW2.0.rO.TmHws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9299 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi I Am a Christian. I used to call my self chistian as I was a worshiper of Jesus and thus Prayed to Jesus. I now call my self Christian as i strive to imitate Jesus. and there for I pary to and worship the same one that he worshipped and prayed to. and told his followers to pray to. and By the way,,, this Trinity thing is no simple concept at all. and as i have fond that when trinitarians are confrounted with a truck load of scriptures, they tend to just want to walk away and declear that it is all a mistery. Remember if Jesus is God there is No medeator between Mankind and God. It was Jesus that said that his father was Greater. > >Shaughn Shea wrote: > For a scientific mind the very simple concept of trinity is just a >model. There is nothing scientific about the concept of trinity. One does not need to believe in any christian doctrine, in order to >understand >this simple concept. > > Dan G. Many Chistians Don't really understand any of the varrious Concepts of Trinity. Thus how could a non Christian. Well come to think of it Maybe Non-Christians might have a better under standing. As this Tinity Concept is Pagan in origin. Randy Hargraves. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 08:29:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA17489; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:29:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:29:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36E93FC5.53568C7B@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:24:38 -0800 From: "Mark N. Iverson" Organization: Research Management Associates X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity References: <19990312135158.7178.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cfpkY3.0.9H4.H3Kws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9300 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What the $*!@ does this have to do with free energy? Please take this topic, and any others that have nothing to do with free energy, to another forum like talk.religion! Randy Hargraves wrote: > Hi > I Am a Christian. [snip] > and By the way,,, this Trinity thing is no simple concept at all. Here's my $0.02......the concept of the trinity was plagiarized from the Babylonians... Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 09:47:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA09487; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:47:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:47:18 -0800 Message-ID: <36E9531E.FBB9789E@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:47:10 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Ted King/the Farr Magnet Linear Drive Motor ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_xddX2.0.7K2.cCLws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9301 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello! I've been "lurking" for a few years, reading the monthly archives and staying out of sight..but here's a cute spam that crossed my desktop today, the 'inventor' is someone who's name I have never seen before and wondered if anyone here has seen his device in operation? I did advise him that selling stock without SEC approval was against the law..here's hoping he takes it to heart. I have no sort of connection to Ted King, his device or his fund-raising, I am merely curious about the technology (or lack thereof!) that might be used. Cheers! Erik ---included message--- Subject: Brilliant Inventor Seeks Investors & Corp. Sponsors (40140) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:02:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "inventor123464681@usa.net" Reply-To: inventor1234@usa.net I would like to tell you about a man I recently met, about what he has invented, and how it could change your life! My friend, Ted King is about to MAKE HISTORY and would like to invite YOU to participate with him! Brilliant Inventor Needs Investors & Corporate Sponsors! Qualified and Proven Inventor Seeks Investors & Corporate Sponsors for Revolutionary New Power Unit that requires NO FUEL or ELECTRICITY!!! Using the earth's own magnetic force and electromagnetics, well known inventor Ted King has developed the Farr Magnet Linear Drive Motor which utilizes a three fold system which can power a car up to 100 MPH, or can be modified to completely power a home!!! This powerful motor is driven by ONLY TWO 12 volt batteries! Ted is truly a genius and is clearly way ahead of his time! He also happens to have a Masters Degree in Electronics and a B.A. in Chemistry! Do You Have the vision to see what I see? I know this sounds incredible-but IT IS TRUE and WELL DOCUMENTED! This process produces NO POLLUTION and is much safer than Nuclear Power...Just think of the implications of this! NO Gasoline needed for cars-NO Utility Bills at home! The concept and the potential is absolutely staggering! This has been 20 years in the making and Ted has $500,000 invested in this already. He has developed a prototype car called "Old Glory" which is painted Red, White, and Blue. In April, Ted will be driving NON-STOP from Maine to California-WITHOUT the aid of any fuel or electricity! (except two 12 volt batteries) (He needs a couple of drivers to help too if you are interested!) Ted will be documenting the entire trip on video, and may have an actual documentary crew assist him, he will quickly get have national news coverage, and he plans to call a press conference nearing the end of the trip to announce this huge achievement and to unveil his masterpiece! CORPORATE SPONSORS-Just think, as this cross country, nonstop run is made and documented, the national news coverage would be incredible! Ted could even end up on The Tonight Show, Nightly World News, or CNN Headline News with something this big! The International exposure would then follow! Your corporate sponsorship displayed on the car would bring you company incredible exposure! INVESTORS- Those who invest initially with this company could begin to reap incredible profits very quickly, as THIS COMPANY WILL SOAR FAST AND HIGH! This may very well be the next Microsoft and Ted King may be the next Bill Gates! Your investment now, could bring back "unheard of returns". One of Ted's previous inventions, A Solar Powered Heating/Cooling Unit was the first of it's kind clear back in 1981 and he turned down 10 Million Dollars for it! (he did not want it stored on a shelf by a Power Co.) This new technology will REVOLUTIONIZE the Auto industry, the Power/Utility industry, and the Gasoline industry! Even the Space Industry could greatly benefit from this powerful idea! The "auto unit" could be mass produced for cars for roughly $1000 each! Most electric cars now being produced have over $2500 worth of batteries and have to be recharged continually and regularly. The home units would cost between $7000-$10,000 and would probably be leased. Clearly much cheaper than a lifetime of utility bills. Just think, NO Electricity or Gas bills! If the "Big Boys" wanted to use Ted's idea, they would have to pay Ted's Company, who would hold the patented process! Ted wants to make his run across the country as soon as April, so he just needs a few more investors to help fund the trip and the car, complete his patent expenses, recoup some of his $500,000 he has invested, and to help set up this dynamic new corporation. Those who participate could be huge winners in the final big scheme of things. This is YOUR CHANCE for that one investment opportunity that only comes along once in a lifetime! Don't delay or you'll be left out in the cold while other people reap huge profits! There is a limited number of 3000 shares being offered at only $100 per share! Ted only needs $300,000 more to complete this venture. He is not looking for wealthy, big, influential investors, but rather average hard working Americans who deserve a piece of the pie, and are not afraid of change for the better. The average investor with Ted now buys $100 to $1000 worth of stock. If you are interested in becoming an investor and/or sponsor in probably the greatest breakthrough in the last 50 years, Call 225-567-9200 Ext. #148 Fax-225-567-9212 You can also send Ted an EMail at: powerunitinventor@usa.net If you wish to invest; Send a Cashier's Check for $100 per share to Le Seal Industries P.O. Box 693 Albany LA 70711 Must be a Cashier's Check and made out to Le Seal Industries You will receive back immediately a receipt for payment & a copy of the by-laws. About 10 days later Ted's attorney will send you your stock certificate(s). This letter is only to inform you of the availibility of this opportunity and is not a solicitation to sell shares or is not to be construed as a public offering. ==================================================== Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this letter can not be considered spam as long as we include Contact information & a remove link: Our E-Mail List was filtered against a Global Remove Database. If this message reached you in error, we apologize. This message is intended to reach a large audience, however, if you wish to be removed from this promotion or any future mailings, just send an email to: nothankyou@notme.com ==================================================== 97120 ---end included message--- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 10:43:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25337; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:42:37 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:42:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E95AEC.F48593A@harti.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:20:28 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Evan Soule , Free Energy Subject: Re: Joe =?iso-8859-1?Q?Newman=B4s?= new motor data analysis References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rngI22.0.nB6.K0Mws"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9302 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >That is no real argument, cause I could keep rotating a 2 tons body with > >0.6 Watts, > >if the friction is almost zero ! > > > >It seems, that the Newman motor runs at 40 RPM (posted earlier) powered > >by 60 Volts and consumes 0.6 Watts, which means an average current of 10 > >milliamps > >is flowing from the battery into the motor. > > > >This is just the case overcoming the friction of the ball bearings to > >let the > >70 Kg rotor rotate at 40 RPM. > > > >I wonder if a different DC motor with 12 Volts input is able to rotate > >a 70 Kg rotor with just 50 milliamps ? > >I guess yes, if the ball bearings are designed right and friction is > >almost zero. > > > >The most important question still reamins unanswered: > > > >How does the Newman motor perform, > >when it is loaded with a real load, e.g. powering an AC generator to > >produce 60 Hz AC power for the household ? > > > >Does it really produce this much more torque, than a normal motor ? > >Can this motor-generator combination run self sustained ? > >Is the new Newman motor mechanically overunity ? > >(producing more mechanical output power than DC input power > >at e.g. driving a 1000 Watt mechanical load) > > > >I would appreciate it to hear any comments. > > > >Regards, Stefan. > > Dear Stefan, > > The following is a direct quote from Joseph Newman who responded via fax to > your above comments: > > "Your comments annoy me! You imply that the Motor I built is extremely > easy to turn. WRONG! Milton Everett (Mechanical Engineer) could not turn > the Motor's shaft by hand, just as many others cannot. Sorry, yes, I agree. I forgot, that the new Motor has a lot of iron inside the rotor at the coils, so it resembles much more a DC stepper motor and it is hard to turn the rotor from one step to the next. But if you would couple a flywheel onto the shaft and let it rotate at 1000 RPM or higher, it would be different ! It is very different to your earlier and my small model with just an aircore copper coil. There the magnet rotor rotates just with the friction of air and the ball bearing friction. >Again, YOU KNOW OF > *NO* CONVENTIONAL MOTOR WITH A 140# ROTARY WITH LOSSES SO GREAT THE AVERAGE > PERSON CANNOT TURN IT BY HAND AND THAT YOU CAN RUN OFF OF .6 WATTS! YOU > LIE BY IMPLYING OTHERWISE! I just thought of your first big motor with the huge coil ! When there the friction of the ball bearing would have been almost zero your about 700 ? Pound magnet could have rotated easily with 0.6 Watts input, (assuming the airflow friction would have also been almost zero) also with a different coil just using 12 Volts and 50 mA input= 0.6 Watts. > YES, THIS MOTOR IS OVER 100% EFFICIENT AND > PRODUCTION IS GOING FORWARD RAPIDLY IN SPITE OF YOUR CLOSEMINDEDNESS!" I would not say that I am in any way closeminded, but I just miss any actual data from your new motor driving a load. What is the DC input power into your motor when driving a DC generator producing 1000 Watts of DC power ? What is the RPM at this power level ? Okay, Milton Everett says it is more than 300 % efficient. Can you let us know, how he exactly measured it. Your June 99 shipping date is not far away and these tests should have already been done to see, if the motor can deliver the promised results. Why donīt you just publish a test result data sheet, if the motor is really this hot as you say ? If the shipping date is near you surely need a data sheet anyway to sell it ! > JOSEPH WESTLEY NEWMAN Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 10:53:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29018; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:53:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:53:46 -0800 Message-ID: <36E94673.ACBBE525@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:53:07 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity - Reply to Mark References: <19990312135158.7178.qmail@hotmail.com> <36E93FC5.53568C7B@ix.netcom.com> <36E94307.58991BBA@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KaT9V3.0.F57.vAMws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9304 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don J. S. Adams wrote: > > See, this is what I meant.... this thread did NOT start > off as a religious one but rather as a simple inquiry into the real > possibility of valuable data encrytped purposely in the ancient text > which might hold clues to Free Energy. A good way to quash the > conversation and lose the opportunity is to allow it to devolve > into a meaningless heated debate between 'Gnostics' and 'Relionists of > other flavours'. But then perhaps that might be the strategy > employed by some (either Religionists or Gnostics) to stop the > conversation so that nothing is discovered. > Just my 2 cents worth. > > Mark N. Iverson wrote: > > > > What the $*!@ does this have to do with free energy? > > > > Please take this topic, and any others that have nothing > > to do with free energy, to another forum like talk.religion! > > > > Randy Hargraves wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > I Am a Christian. > > > > [snip] > > > > > and By the way,,, this Trinity thing is no simple concept at all. > > > > Here's my $0.02......the concept of the trinity was plagiarized from the Babylonians... > > > > Mark > > -- > The universe is full of magical things, > patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. > -- Eden Phillpotts > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Don J. S. Adams > Managing Consultant > RAVE Communications > > 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA > 780-998-4066 Canada > > http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave > > alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 10:53:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28982; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:53:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:53:43 -0800 Message-ID: <36E9468F.D1DAFBC@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:53:35 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Trinity - Reply to Randy References: <19990312135158.7178.qmail@hotmail.com> <36E94302.1D36F41A@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uFl2H2.0.l47.sAMws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9303 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don J. S. Adams wrote: > > Randy, > > no offense.... I appreciate your philosophical perpsective even > though I disagree with a good chunk of it, however dont you think this > is out of place in the thread? I understand that this thread is meant > to cover possible encrypted data found within the Torah / Bible. Just > because the Bible is mentioned hardly means that the thread is based on > 'religion'. I'm not sure how your comments relate to this thread? > If you are concerned about the nature of relationship between Christ > and God you might check into the religous side of the codes as I > understand there is supposed to be numerous encrypted messages > concerning that. > > Randy Hargraves wrote: > > > > Hi > > I Am a Christian. > > I used to call my self chistian as I was a worshiper of Jesus and thus > > Prayed to Jesus. > > I now call my self Christian as i strive to imitate Jesus. > > and there for I pary to and worship the same one that he worshipped and > > prayed to. > > and told his followers to pray to. > > > > and By the way,,, this Trinity thing is no simple concept at all. > > and as i have fond that when trinitarians are confrounted with a truck > > load of scriptures, they tend to just want to walk away and declear that > > it is all a mistery. > > > > Remember if Jesus is God there is No medeator between Mankind and God. > > > > It was Jesus that said that his father was Greater. > > > > > > > > > > > >Shaughn Shea wrote: > > > > > For a scientific mind the very simple concept of trinity is just a > > >model. > > > > There is nothing scientific about the concept of trinity. > > > > One does not need to believe in any christian doctrine, in order to > > >understand > > >this simple concept. > > > > > > Dan G. > > Many Chistians Don't really understand any of the varrious Concepts of > > Trinity. > > > > Thus how could a non Christian. > > > > Well come to think of it Maybe Non-Christians might have a better > > > > under standing. As this Tinity Concept is Pagan in origin. > > > > Randy > > Hargraves. > > > > > > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > -- > The universe is full of magical things, > patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. > -- Eden Phillpotts > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Don J. S. Adams > Managing Consultant > RAVE Communications > > 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA > 780-998-4066 Canada > > http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave > > alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 11:59:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA21201; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:59:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:59:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36E97257.6DA7B2C@harti.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:00:23 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eks1@earthlink.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ted King/the Farr Magnet Linear Drive Motor ? References: <36E9531E.FBB9789E@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"US3j.0.AB5.a8Nws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9305 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: eks1 wrote: > > Hello! I've been "lurking" for a few years, reading the monthly > archives and staying > out of sight..but here's a cute spam that crossed my desktop today, the > 'inventor' is > someone who's name I have never seen before and wondered if anyone here > has > seen his device in operation? I did advise him that selling stock > without SEC > approval was against the law..here's hoping he takes it to heart. I > have no sort of > connection to Ted King, his device or his fund-raising, I am merely > curious about > the technology (or lack thereof!) that might be used. disclaimers> > > Cheers! > > Erik > > ---included message--- > Subject: > Brilliant Inventor Seeks Investors & Corp. Sponsors (40140) > Date: > Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:02:28 -0400 (EDT) > From: > "inventor123464681@usa.net" > Reply-To: > inventor1234@usa.net > I smell snake oil ! If he publishes just no more info and only wants your money it is probabyl a big scam ! Also the statement, that he still needs the money to build the final car is a statement that he has no car yet to run a demo ! Donīt waste your money on something like this. Regards, Stefan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 15:58:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA17721; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:57:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:57:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199903122357.SAA08385@express.globetrotter.net> From: "Patrick Tremblay" To: Subject: Re: Joe Newman's new motor data analysis Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:55:16 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FOFq63.0.oK4.2eQws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9306 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Norm Biss Or Eric Krieg, Thanks for puting light on such a muddy subject, I think I got fooled by this item for a while and that a lot were fooled too. But it's people like you that shed the truth or at least question wisely. It makes no sense he's been battling 30 years for this thing and no results yet. and the numbers you are advancing are quite troubling. And for the price and certification issues, you are raising a point there, I even think that not only won't the insurance companies cover for those motors, but that it is illegal in America to sell such important systems without them having been approved by the goverment, after all we are living in an efficient society. And I will tell this, all this story about overunity and Joe Newman is quite spooky. Nothing is happening. I feel something is very wrong here, that Newman struggled to make an overunity device and no results yet. Why does he want money and publicity. Instead he should've built a self-sustaining prototype and expose it, and seek funding, patent it then investors would have beaten themselves up to have the chance to get their hands on this venture. It's illogical to seek funding in a public that has not the expertise in marketing motors and the understanding of motors. He should seek fundings from a company like General Dynamics, General Electric. All this seems not like a fraud, but like a flaw, a BIG mistake. ---------- > De : Norm Biss > A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Objet : Re: Joe Newman's new motor data analysis > Date : 11 mars, 1999 22:28 > > To all list members: > I feel it is time to respond to the misleading information > being put out > in regards to the Newman motor data analysis. In addition, > I want to > ask some questions, which should have been posed by anyone > else > who is interested in this "Technology". > > First of all, all Newman is doing is exchanging voltage for > amperage. > As we all know, ohms law is inviolate. > > Has anyone thought to ask what the result would be, if only > 12 volts > from dry cell batteries were used? Conversely, what would > happen > if 60 volts of Lead-Acid Batteries were applied to the > motor? > > Joe Newman is assuming he is going to sell a motor which is > going to > be used for driving a Generator. Let's address that issue. > When the > Y2K bug (supposedly) is going to knock out the Electric > Power > Companies, EVERYONE is going to need a backup power source. > I have done some research, and came up with the following > information: > If you are going to use an alternate power source, you are > going to have > to provide for all of your power needs. The bare minimum of > generated > power necessary to accomplish this is 4KW. 1KW certainly is > not the > answer, since your toaster, or Iron will require 1100 > watts. With the > figure of 4KW in mind, let's address the type of generator > needed to > accomplish this. The average 4KW generator needs 6HP to > drive it. > I am assuming a belt driven model, but if you want to use > gears, or > direct shaft coupling with a "Love-joy" coupler, the results > and effects > will be the same. (A 2KW Generator requires 4HP to drive > it). Both > of these Generators MUST turn at 3600 RPM. If Joe Newman > expects > 60 volts of dry-cell batteries to accomplish this, it will > not work. He explains > how he gets 40 RPM with 60 volts. He will need NINETY times > that number > of batteries to reach 3600 RPM! > > Lets assume, for the sake of argument, that he is going to > use a system of gears, > or pulleys from his 40 RPM, to increase it to 3600 RPM. Any > logically > thinking person will immediately ask: Doesn't that mean a > tremendous amount > of Belt or Gear Friction? Of course! The question now > becomes one of adding > even more batteries. > > Actually, the most common sense approach to an emergency > (Stand-by) system > for Electric Power Backup, is an Inverter. You can get one > which is Propane > powered, for around $2,000.00. Or if you prefer, you can > get one which runs > from Deep-cycle, Marine Trolling Batteries. Again, the cost > is around $2,000.00. > I cannot forsee anyone wanting to purchase an unproven motor > for $7,000.00, and > still have to buy a generator, which the motor will drive, > for another $600.00 to > $700.00. In addition, you would have to rig-up your own > belt drives, etc.. > An off-the-shelf setup is all ready to go. > > Next, we come to a really "Sticky" problem: The motor is > NOT approved by > UL (In Canada, CSA). I have checked with Three different > Insurance Carriers, > and they informed me that even though the Generator itself > is UL approved, if > the motor is not UL approved, it COULD cause your Homeowners > Policy to > be Invalidated. In any event, NO Insurance company would > pay-off for any > damage to your property caused by a non-UL-approved device. > > To get UL approval, an Electric Motor must be submitted to > UL for testing. > This requires months of testing, under all conditions, in > order for UL to > certify that the motor functions as advertised, and under > all conditions of > weather, temperature, humidity, etc. This can take anywhere > from 3 to 9 > months. It would be interesting to see if this motor has > been so certified. > > Stephan Hartmann has asked some very pertinent questions > about the > "Newman" motor. I, personally, do not feel that the > questions have been > answered to anyone's satisfaction. Furthermore, Stephan has > used Newman's > "Formula" for years, in various prototypes, and has not yet > found an Over- > Unity device. In his book, Joe Newman tries to make it > sound so simple. > When people follow his advice, and it doesn't produce as > advertised, they get > the reply to the effect that "they can't grasp Joe Newman's > teachings"! > > Now, I must question one other thing about the motor which > is being offered > for sale, with "PROMISED" delivery by June, 1999. Joe > Newman, by his > own admission, has over $6,000.00 worth of Neodymium magnets > in the > prototype motor. How can he sell the entire motor for > $7,000.00. If, he > decides to replace the Neodymium magnets with Ceramic > Magnets, he can > then build the motor and sell it for that price. However, > the Ceramic Magnets, > (Assuming the very best) are only about 60% as strong. The > reason that I > know this, is because when I was building the prototype, I > had to confer > with several magnet manufacturers. I have their literature > which details the > differences between Neodymium and the different grades of > ceramic > magnets. > > If I were Stephan Hartmann, I think I would seriously > consider questioning > Joe Newman on his technology, and exactly who came up with > the figures > on the test results. I respect Stephan's knowledge and > abilities, as I have > been studying his own efforts at building a Newman Motor. I > feel that > Stephan has gone further in his research of the Newman > motor, than any > person who has attempted to reproduce it. If Stephan can't > duplicate the > results, they probably can't be achieved. > > Since I have an intimate knowledge of the prototype, I felt > that I should > voice my opinion. If I have stepped on anyone's toes, I > apologize. I, > however, cannot apologize for the questions I have asked, > because > they should have been asked by several people. > > Thank You. > > Respectfully, > Norm Biss > Erie, Pa. > 3-11-99 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 22:47:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA19096; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:47:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:47:16 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990313171751.007d47a0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:17:51 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Photo wrongfully used Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BDf7U2.0.Hg4.qdWws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9307 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have now placed a search engine facility at my web site Solaris bright sparks and energy. When I create any new websites these too will be linked at this site via the LOOK@ME search page.. With this search facility you can goto aor book mark this page. You will be able to use a keyword and if their is a match at the various website i have you will be directed there. This should make it easier to access the contents at my websites. one location for this page is at. http://www.Geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html last updated November 1998 my postal address as follows Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Energy 21 website now resides at http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html Bright Sparks website. http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ our site search facility is located at. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 12 22:50:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA19583; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:50:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:50:00 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990313172034.007d1a90@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:20:34 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: New website Search Facility at Solaris Energy 21 Bright sparks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Z-Y9o2.0.qn4.NgWws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9308 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have now placed a search engine facility at my web site Solaris bright sparks and energy. When I create any new websites these too will be linked at this site via the LOOK@ME search page.. With this search facility you can goto aor book mark this page. You will be able to use a keyword and if their is a match at the various website i have you will be directed there. This should make it easier to access the contents at my websites. one location for this page is at. http://www.Geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html last updated November 1998 my postal address as follows Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Energy 21 website now resides at http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html Bright Sparks website. http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ our site search facility is located at. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 04:38:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA22153; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:38:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:38:32 -0800 Message-ID: <004b01be6d4f$1630e660$5b2bd3cf@default> From: "Robin Dye: The Credit Zone/VisionQuest Productions" To: , , Subject: Please note conference changes Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 05:43:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"jLRRN1.0.yP5.6nbws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9309 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Everyone, I was just informed that the Exotic Research Conference scheduled for March 25-28 in Seattle, Washington has been rescheduled for this summer. Steve has worked endlessly to prepare for this event and has fought against all odds to make it happen. Unfortunately he has been forced to postpone the event until July. He has tried everything in his power to make this event take place this month but was unable, due to extenuating circumstances. Steve is a very good friend of mine and I can tell you that no man is more dedicated to getting this information to the public and he will do everything humanly possible to make the July event worth every moment. Please show your support and join us at the summer event. I can tell you from personal experience that... to pull off a major event... is no easy task. I believe that this rescheduling will give more people the opportunity to attend this summer. We all need to realize the value of the inventors of America (and the world...for that matter) and support them in their efforts and solutions to earth's problems. I stand behind all of those who wish to make a difference and I salute those who realize the importance of continued research. Robin Dye VisionQuest Productions Please note...this is an Exotic Research production. I have volunteered my time to assist Steve Elswick in any way possible. If for some reason I am unable to post this to KeelyNet...would one of you please forward it for me. Thanks! Exotic Research Conference Postponed New Location/Dates: Phoenix/Mesa, Arizona… July 22-July 25, 1999 http://www.exoticresearch.com The Exotic Research Conference scheduled in Seattle for March 25-March 28, 1999 has been changed to Phoenix/Mesa, Arizona… July 22-July 25, 1999. At the time of this announcement, we anticipate no changes in the speaker schedule. However, should they occur, the replacement speakers will be as capable and every bit as interesting as those in the current lineup. Those who wished to attend the conference but did not have the opportunity due to lateness of receiving notices now have a second chance. Those who are preregistered will be contacted individually to make arrangements for refunds or transference of registration to the Phoenix Conference. If you would like to contact me, I can be reached at (520) 424-3581. As a consolation to those living in the Seattle area, Paul Pantone has agreed as a personal favor to go to Seattle and put on a FREE GEET technology workshop at the Doubletree Inn at Southcenter on Sunday March 28, 1999. Paul will be in the area from Friday March 26 - Sunday March 28. For exact dates and times call Paul Pantone at (801) 281-2462. The Phoenix date is firm and confirmed with the Mesa Holiday Inn… the same location where we held last year’s conference. There are many advantages to having the conference in Phoenix in July: It is easier for attendees to get time off for the conference. Our info will be in the mail within three weeks enabling many more members to get the word. (It has been six weeks and many members are just now receiving their mail!) We have three times the space as allowed in Seattle. The facility which we have selected is much more reasonable pricewise. Whereas guest room rates were $90.00+ in Seattle, in Phoenix the room rates are $59.00 for the comparable quality. Travel in the summer is less expensive. We have a working relationship with the hotel based on last year’s conference. The staff is experienced with the needs of our group and is willing to go the extra mile. They like us and everything we represent! It is never an easy decision to cancel an event. However, sometimes it works out for the best. The past few months have been very strenuous as it seemed roadblock after roadblock was placed in front of the conference organizers. As a conference organizer for 15 years, I have never had as much difficulty putting together a conference as I have encountered in Seattle…. starting with just booking the site. Conferences are hectic places with a great multitude of things happening at once… and the preconference phase is critical to a successful conference. In this case too many variables were popping up and Murphy’s Laws were in full force. Every possible delay imaginable was encountered as we tried to get the word about the conference out. We even had a nightmare computer scenario where US West, our Internet provider and ourselves had a two week stretch of relay failures, hard disk failures and finally motherboard failures… I still do not have my scanner back up. One of the latest is with the airlines reservation system blinking out. Despite these trials and tribulations, we persevered and worked our way through nearly every obstacle. After a final appraisal of the entire situation, I decided that it would be better to delay a few months and have a GREAT conference. If anyone has gone to a poorly organized conference, they know what a miserable place they can be! I will not put on a "Keystone cops" style of conference. I am mighty particular where I spend my money and I expect you are too… therefore I work hard to see that every attendee gets the full measure of value from my conferences… and demand high quality from all of my providers. Will I attempt to do another conference in Seattle? The answer is most likely, but only after I am able to get up there person and do a thorough site survey. The earliest possible date for Seattle would be Fall of 2000. If there is any one thing that attendees can do to make things easier on the staff, it is to PREREGISTER!!!! Preregistration is important. It allows the planners to determine numbers for room arrangements, catering arrangements, etc. Preregistration also insures that you will have a place to sit in the conference. Unfortunately many people believe they can wait until they get to the door to get in… then they get all upset at the fact that space is limited. It is the conference organizers nightmare. We encourage everyone to sign for Phoenix at the first available opportunity. We are allowing a 25% Discount to members who preregister by APRIL 30, 1999. Some people complain about the high cost of attending a conference… here’s an excellent way of keeping the costs down and insuring yourself of a seat at the conference. We expect an attendence of 300 or greater in Phoenix. I wish to thank our many supporters who have helped in this endeavor and want them to know that their work was not in vain. We will be having the conference, only it will be in Mesa, Arizona July 22-25. The work in bringing new technology to light will continue and in the end… a new paradigm for energy independence and alternative health will emerge. Please help pass the word. Thank you for your support, Steve Elswick Publisher, Exotic Research Report http://www.exoticresearch.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 07:11:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA16899; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:11:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:11:26 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990313231155.0095fdc0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:11:55 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Methernitha Testatica in Exotic Research Report In-Reply-To: <004b01be6d4f$1630e660$5b2bd3cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TYOK.0.y74.T0ews"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9310 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anybody here get the "Exotic Research Report" ? :- http://www.exoticresearch.com/report/tocframe.htm Just noticed in the contents :- "BAHLMANN'S POWER WHEEL ... A genuine "free energy" device is unveiled" "Dumanis Kyklos"... The Power Wheel - Calvin Bahlmann has successfully analyzed the Methernitha Testatika Engine. From that information and advanced capacitor technology, he developed the Power Wheel! I wouldn't mind knowing what they have to say about his machine! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 07:17:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA19209; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:17:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:17:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:15:28 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: John Winterflood Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Methernitha Testatica in Exotic Research Report In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990313231155.0095fdc0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"c7YAz3.0.2i4.S6ews"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9311 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone ever attended a demonstration by Calvin Bahlmann? Jorg Ostrowski _______________________________________________________________ On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, John Winterflood wrote: > > Does anybody here get the "Exotic Research Report" ? :- > > http://www.exoticresearch.com/report/tocframe.htm > > Just noticed in the contents :- > > "BAHLMANN'S POWER WHEEL ... A genuine "free energy" device is unveiled" > > "Dumanis Kyklos"... The Power Wheel - Calvin Bahlmann has successfully > analyzed the Methernitha Testatika Engine. From that information and > advanced capacitor technology, he developed the Power Wheel! > > I wouldn't mind knowing what they have to say about his machine! > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 07:27:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22506; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:27:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:27:03 -0800 Message-ID: <36EA8646.4F3106CE@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:37:42 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Does Sweet's work explain Searl's device? References: <002501be65e8$27e6ae80$ae3284ce@aj98> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wLsvh1.0.TV5.6Fews"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9312 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everyone, I have just updated my web pages to explain a connection I see between Floyd Sweet's work and John Searl's devices. I don't remember if I explained this here before or not or if someone else has.... So if it has been mentioned before, please let me know. You can check it out at http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/energy01.html I also give some references to magnetostatic oscillations in magnetic material. Basically, Sweet applied a special magnetization process to his magnets involving an AC field. Searl uses an AC field as well. With a small excitation coil, Sweet was able to produce "large" oscillations in his magnets. If these oscillation were to be induced around a cylinder (like a traveling wave around a cylinder) they would be able to "carry along" stacks of disk magnets like that of Searl's devices. I give a little more detail on my web pages, but that's the basic idea. I have no idea if this if how Searl's devices really worked or not, but the connection to Sweet's work is interesting to think about. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 08:38:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA07763; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:38:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:38:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:37:58 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Exotic Research Conference (Seattle) Postponed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA07733 Resent-Message-ID: <"srJf52.0.Cv1.hHfws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9313 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See below ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 03:48:05 -0700 From: Steve Elswick To: Zephyr with TabNet Subject: Exotic Research Conference Postponed Exotic Research Conference Postponed New Location/Dates: Phoenix/Mesa, Arizona… July 22-July 25, 1999 http://www.exoticresearch.com The Exotic Research Conference scheduled in Seattle for March 25-March 28, 1999 has been changed to Phoenix/Mesa, Arizona… July 22-July 25, 1999. At the time of this announcement, we anticipate no changes in the speaker schedule. However, should they occur, the replacement speakers will be as capable and every bit as interesting as those in the current lineup. Those who wished to attend the conference but did not have the opportunity due to lateness of receiving notices now have a second chance. Those who are preregistered will be contacted individually to make arrangements for refunds or transference of registration to the Phoenix Conference. If you would like to contact me, I can be reached at (520) 424-3581. As a consolation to those living in the Seattle area, Paul Pantone has agreed as a personal favor to go to Seattle and put on a FREE GEET technology workshop at the Doubletree Inn at Southcenter on Sunday March 28, 1999. Paul will be in the area from Friday March 26 - Sunday March 28. For exact dates and times call Paul Pantone at (801) 281-2462. The Phoenix date is firm and confirmed with the Mesa Holiday Inn… the same location where we held last year’s conference. There are many advantages to having the conference in Phoenix in July: It is easier for attendees to get time off for the conference. Our info will be in the mail within three weeks enabling many more members to get the word. (It has been six weeks and many members are just now receiving their mail!) We have three times the space as allowed in Seattle. The facility which we have selected is much more reasonable pricewise. Whereas guest room rates were $90.00+ in Seattle, in Phoenix the room rates are $59.00 for the comparable quality. Travel in the summer is less expensive. We have a working relationship with the hotel based on last year’s conference. The staff is experienced with the needs of our group and is willing to go the extra mile. They like us and everything we represent! It is never an easy decision to cancel an event. However, sometimes it works out for the best. The past few months have been very strenuous as it seemed roadblock after roadblock was placed in front of the conference organizers. As a conference organizer for 15 years, I have never had as much difficulty putting together a conference as I have encountered in Seattle…. starting with just booking the site. Conferences are hectic places with a great multitude of things happening at once… and the preconference phase is critical to a successful conference. In this case too many variables were popping up and Murphy’s Laws were in full force. Every possible delay imaginable was encountered as we tried to get the word about the conference out. We even had a nightmare computer scenario where US West, our internet provider and ourselves had a two week stretch of relay failures, hard disk failures and finally motherboard failures… I still do not have my scanner back up. One of the latest is with the airlines reservation system blinking out. Despite these trials and tribulations, we persevered and worked our way through nearly every obstacle. After a final appraisal of the entire situation, I decided that it would be better to delay a few months and have a GREAT conference. If anyone has gone to a poorly organized conference, they know what a miserable place they can be! I will not put on a "Keystone cops" style of conference. I am mighty particular where I spend my money and I expect you are too… therefore I work hard to see that every attendee gets the full measure of value from my conferences… and demand high quality from all of my providers. Will I attempt to do another conference in Seattle? The answer is most likely, but only after I am able to get up there person and do a thorough site survey. The earliest possible date for Seattle would be Fall of 2000. If there is any one thing that attendees can do to make things easier on the staff, it is to PREREGISTER!!!! Preregistration is important. It allows the planners to determine numbers for room arrangements, catering arrangements, etc. Preregistration also insures that you will have a place to sit in the conference. Unfortunately many people believe they can wait until they get to the door to get in… then they get all upset at the fact that space is limited. It is the conference organizers nightmare. We encourage everyone to sign for Phoenix at the first available opportunity. We are allowing a 25% Discount to members who preregister by APRIL 30, 1999. Some people complain about the high cost of attending a conference… here’s an excellent way of keeping the costs down and insuring yourself of a seat at the conference. We expect an attendence of 300 or greater in Phoenix. I wish to thank our many supporters who have helped in this endeavor and want them to know that their work was not in vain. We will be having the conference, only it will be in Mesa, Arizona July 22-25. The work in bringing new technology to light will continue and in the end… a new paradigm for energy independence and alternative health will emerge. Please help pass the word. Thank you for your support, Steve Elswick Publisher, Exotic Research Report http://www.exoticresearch.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 14:26:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26060; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:25:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:25:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199903132225.RAA11275@icx.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:25:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Exotic Research Conference (Seattle) Postponed From: "Richard Austin" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA25941 Resent-Message-ID: <"GQ6rt1.0.1N6.mNkws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9314 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Conference Ideas... Hello Steve, Six months is much too long to wait for this information. The world situation is changing too fast to hold back on this info. That is probably why you ran into so much trouble. There are forces out there who would NOT want it to happen. If there are truly solutions out there, we need to know. Time is of the essence. Since the conference cannot happen, how about a push to get the information out to us. Especially the detail that will allow us to duplicate the breakthroughs. We will enjoy looking at it in July for those who can attend. In the meantime, I suggest that you or someone you trust create a website to point to each technology that is proven. The more detail and verification the better. -- Richard Austin, Director Institute for Planetary Renewal, http://user.icx.net/~richarda "Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -- Albert Einstein. ...snip > I wish to thank our many supporters who have helped in this endeavor and > want them to know that their work was not in vain. We will be having the > conference, only it will be in Mesa, Arizona July 22-25. The work in > bringing new technology to light will continue and in the endÖ a new > paradigm for energy independence and alternative health will emerge. > > Please help pass the word. > > Thank you for your support, > > Steve Elswick > > Publisher, Exotic Research Report > > http://www.exoticresearch.com > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 14:50:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02822; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:50:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:50:40 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrostatic Power Generating System Message-Id: <921365409.22411.791@excite.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:50:09 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.182 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"1ekfr3.0.vh._kkws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9315 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:45:09 -0500, Ken Carrigan wrote: > Electrostatic implies that no power is needed to sustain the field, when = > in fact there > are losses to keeping any high potential in free space. Now if one = > tries to use this > electrostatic energy for work, then the field will start to either = > deplete or require more > current to sustain itself. In other words... the field is NOT free. =20 > > In series resonance the energy transfer between electric and magnetic fields can exceed the energy wasted as heat which is represented as the actual power input.HDN > What we should be looking at HARD, is an energy supply that is NEVER = > depleted. > One that if we try to use the field supply, it would allow us to use it = > without depleting. > Like an endless river supply. PERMENATE MAGNETICS!! Free B-Field!! = > This is > our key to endless energy, but we have to get the static magnetic field = > to become > oscillatory. If you can make a magnetic field from a permenate magnetic = > oscillate > by either machanical means or field modulation means, there would be = > your answer. > Now, this mechanical or field modulation (FM) means would also have to = > be free.. > or at least the magnetic field oscillations (integrate for power = > extraction) would have > to supply the oscillations means. =20 >> The spatial harnessing of resonance goes beyond a simple schematic that conveys a two dimensional idea. The idea of tapping energy from resonance must be accomplished by extracting energy from the potential without diminishing the potential. This is not as impossible as it sounds. If an electric field exists at right angles to a magnetic field a Lorentz force interaction can take place which will exert a force on a moving charged particle that is at right angles to both the causitive forces. That movement does not deplete the potential in the electric field because it moves parallel to the potential. In this scheme of things it is first necessary to procure the condition that more energy can tranfer between electric and magnetic fields in osscillation than the amount of total losses mostly expressed as I squared R heat losses on the inductor. This is well within possibility at 60 hz by using a large air core inductance. Using a 56 H coil I note 15 watts I^2R heating loss but 45 watts of energy transfer between fields as expressed in joules /sec in a typical 23 gauge coil of 1000 ohms. The several problems involved with this idea is that a material must be chosen to share both the electric and magnetic fields: I see water as this candidate. Secondly the idea is said to be beyond a simple schematic because a schematic can show the inductance L and the capacitance C and their respective values that will resonate at 60 hz on a diagram. But how do I make that diagram show that I am adding the fact that C will exist inside L at right angles in what I call the spatial harnessing of resonance. Another complication with this idea is the fact that at 60 hz the volume of space needed for C will exceed the available volume inside the inductor L. However by increasing the frequency input a corresponding exponential decrease in C is obtained which also increases the ratio between energy transfered between fields and that wasted in heat loss. Even another complication is the fact that displacement currents across a water capacity are extremely small, thus making this lorentz reaction extremely small. A way to throw the system into a high frequency of over one hundred thousand hz is needed to make the displacement current in the water capacity appear as greater values. I have experimentally noted that a similar kind of lorentz reaction that should produce no increase of current conduction from a battery current through water does in fact increase the conduction. It seems that the lorentz reaction that should oppose conduction is returned or bounced back off the source emf (battery) in the following pulse where the lorentz reaction aids the battery current. HDN > Any takers for this kinda project? The TOMI is close..where magnetics = > are used to=20 > rotate a ball bearing. If one could produce that...ball bearing = > rotating continually.. > I'd have to say.. you would be 75% there to answers to free energy. > > v/r Ken Carrigan > > PS... it also could be that high frequency oscillations are the answer = > vice slower or > lower oscillations. Something like a car.. for gas milage? Too fast = > and wind velocity > friction decreases effieciency but too slow also reduces efficiency. = > There could be this > relationship for oscillating magnetic field for extraction of power. I = > have done some > research on a faraday disk and it does hold true about the magnetic = > field rotation versus > velocity.... k*V^3 is frictional losses. =20 _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 15:10:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21432; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:10:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:10:47 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrostatic Power Generating System Message-Id: <921366615.12863.705@excite.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:10:15 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.182 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"-DJ2b1.0.hE5.r1lws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9316 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please excuse the previous cross post which was intended on keelynet as a reply:punched in freenrg address by mistake HDN > > > Electrostatic implies that no power is needed to sustain the field, when > = > > in fact there > > are losses to keeping any high potential in free space. Now if one = > > tries to use this > > electrostatic energy for work, then the field will start to either = > > deplete or require more > > current to sustain itself. In other words... the field is NOT free. =20 > > > In series resonance the energy transfer between electric and magnetic > fields can exceed the energy wasted as heat which is represented as the > actual power input.HDN > > What we should be looking at HARD, is an energy supply that is NEVER = > > depleted. > > One that if we try to use the field supply, it would allow us to use it = > > without depleting. > > Like an endless river supply. PERMENATE MAGNETICS!! Free B-Field!! = > > This is > > our key to endless energy, but we have to get the static magnetic field = > > to become > > oscillatory. If you can make a magnetic field from a permenate magnetic > = > > oscillate > > by either machanical means or field modulation means, there would be = > > your answer. > > Now, this mechanical or field modulation (FM) means would also have to = > > be free.. > > or at least the magnetic field oscillations (integrate for power = > > extraction) would have > > to supply the oscillations means. =20 > > >> The spatial harnessing of resonance goes beyond a simple schematic > that conveys a two dimensional idea. The idea of tapping energy from > resonance must be accomplished by extracting energy from the potential > without diminishing the potential. This is not as impossible as it sounds. > If an electric field exists at right angles to a magnetic field a Lorentz > force interaction can take place which will exert a force on a moving > charged particle that is at right angles to both the causitive forces. That > movement does not deplete the potential in the electric field because it > moves parallel to the potential. > In this scheme of things it is first necessary to procure the > condition that more energy can tranfer between electric and magnetic fields > in osscillation than the amount of total losses mostly expressed as I > squared R heat losses on the inductor. This is well within possibility at 60 > hz by using a large air core inductance. Using a 56 H coil I note 15 watts > I^2R heating loss but 45 watts of energy transfer between fields as > expressed in joules /sec in a typical 23 gauge coil of 1000 ohms. > The several problems involved with this idea is that a material must > be chosen to share both the electric and magnetic fields: I see water as > this candidate. Secondly the idea is said to be beyond a simple schematic > because a schematic can show the inductance L and the capacitance C and > their respective values that will resonate at 60 hz on a diagram. But how do > I make that diagram show that I am adding the fact that C will exist inside > L at right angles in what I call the spatial harnessing of resonance. > Another complication with this idea is the fact that at 60 hz the > volume of space needed for C will exceed the available volume inside the > inductor L. However by increasing the frequency input a corresponding > exponential decrease in C is obtained which also increases the ratio > between energy transfered between fields and that wasted in heat loss. > Even another complication is the fact that displacement currents > across a water capacity are extremely small, thus making this lorentz > reaction extremely small. A way to throw the system into a high frequency of > over one hundred thousand hz is needed to make the displacement current in > the water capacity appear as greater values. > I have experimentally noted that a similar kind of lorentz reaction > that should produce no increase of current conduction from a battery current > through water does in fact increase the conduction. It seems that the > lorentz reaction that should oppose conduction is returned or bounced back > off the source emf (battery) in the following pulse where the lorentz > reaction aids the battery current. HDN > > Any takers for this kinda project? The TOMI is close..where magnetics = > > are used to=20 > > rotate a ball bearing. If one could produce that...ball bearing = > > rotating continually.. > > I'd have to say.. you would be 75% there to answers to free energy. > > > > v/r Ken Carrigan > > > > PS... it also could be that high frequency oscillations are the answer = > > vice slower or > > lower oscillations. Something like a car.. for gas milage? Too fast = > > and wind velocity > > friction decreases effieciency but too slow also reduces efficiency. = > > There could be this > > relationship for oscillating magnetic field for extraction of power. I = > > have done some > > research on a faraday disk and it does hold true about the magnetic = > > field rotation versus > > velocity.... k*V^3 is frictional losses. =20 > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 16:41:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16856; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:41:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:41:25 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990307191629.00943870@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 19:31:28 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0Q_jR.0.H74.rMmws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9317 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In the name of the anode, the cathode and the holy grid. K. (Apologies to Thomas Pynchon) At 08:03 AM 1/3/97 +1100, you wrote: > > >Don J. S. Adams wrote: > >> What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? >> >> I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible Code'? >> Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing Unified >> field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that the onlyt >> extra >> dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... and >> then I >> started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this >> mysterious embedded >> code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come are >> encoded there in, >> every living beings personal history, etc... well then there should be >> complete >> information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact any of >> those who claimed >> to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info >> dissapeared... >> well could it be found here? >> >> thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? >> >> Don > > Hello all. >I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to real >facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the >Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity >and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of the >bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and their >relationships. > >Any thoughts? > >Cam > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 18:00:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02262; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:00:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:00:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199903140200.UAA16904@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:58:25 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dEkH81.0.AZ.gWnws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9318 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Man did not invent the Trinity. It was made known to us by God. It is too complex for our finite brain and therefore we should not waste our time trying to figure it out. If we get to heaven, maybe we'll find out. Man has invented terms like eternity and infinity, and cannot detail a scientific definition because even these lowly terms are too difficult for our tiny finite brain. It is therefore easier to be childlike and accept that the universe expands farther than we can count. Are we not in awe of the universe ? If our little brain is awed by it, think how bored God must be with it. Maybe he has created a million other totally different systems with different laws, just to amuse himself. Let us all hope that He doesn't get too bored too soon with this one and decide to erase it. Religion is of man and run by men. We know without being told that there is a God, all we have to do is think for a while, and we know it. It behooves us then to think of Him each and every day. As for atheists, I heard a saying once...."There are no atheists in a foxhole". I also feel sorry for them, for in a bad pinch, they have no one to call out to for help.---------- Heck, I'm writing a book.....so I'll stop now....Joe Portman .com> > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 6:31 PM > > In the name of the anode, the cathode and the holy grid. > > K. > > (Apologies to Thomas Pynchon) > > At 08:03 AM 1/3/97 +1100, you wrote: > > > > > >Don J. S. Adams wrote: > > > >> What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? > >> > >> I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible Code'? > >> Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing Unified > >> field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that the onlyt > >> extra > >> dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... and > >> then I > >> started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this > >> mysterious embedded > >> code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come are > >> encoded there in, > >> every living beings personal history, etc... well then there should be > >> complete > >> information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact any of > >> those who claimed > >> to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info > >> dissapeared... > >> well could it be found here? > >> > >> thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? > >> > >> Don > > > > Hello all. > >I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to real > >facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the > >Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity > >and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of the > >bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and their > >relationships. > > > >Any thoughts? > > > >Cam > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 18:15:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA07643; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:15:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:15:53 -0800 Message-ID: <36EB1C26.50C04621@erie.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:17:10 -0500 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: <199903140200.UAA16904@mw1.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9a6jO2.0._s1.Nlnws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9319 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Joe Portman Sr., wrote, that there was no real definition for the word "Eternity". I have to agree with him. However, there is one example by which we may be able to grasp the meaning of the word. Visualize, if you will: There is a mountain, which is a perfect cube. It is one mile on each side. This mountain is made out of pure Diamond. Once every thousand years, a tiny bird flies out to the mountain to sharpen it's beak. When the bird has finally worn away the mountain to nothing, that is the FIRST DAY of eternity. When viewed in this perspective, Eternity is a very long time, indeed. Regards, Norm Biss "Joe Portman Sr." wrote: > Man did not invent the Trinity. It was made known to us by God. It is too > complex for our finite brain and therefore we should not waste our time > trying to figure it out. If we get to heaven, maybe we'll find out. Man has > invented terms like eternity and infinity, and cannot detail a scientific > definition because even these lowly terms are too difficult for our tiny > finite brain. It is therefore easier to be childlike and accept that the > universe expands farther than we can count. Are we not in awe of the > universe ? If our little brain is awed by it, think how bored God must be > with it. Maybe he has created a million other totally different systems > with different laws, just to amuse himself. Let us all hope that He doesn't > get too bored too soon with this one and decide to erase it. Religion is of > man and run by men. We know without being told that there is a God, all we > have to do is think for a while, and we know it. It behooves us then to > think of Him each and every day. As for atheists, I heard a saying > once...."There are no atheists in a foxhole". > I also feel sorry for them, for in a bad pinch, they have no one to > call out to for help.---------- > Heck, I'm writing a book.....so I'll stop now....Joe Portman > .com> > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 6:31 PM > > > > In the name of the anode, the cathode and the holy grid. > > > > K. > > > > (Apologies to Thomas Pynchon) > > > > At 08:03 AM 1/3/97 +1100, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Don J. S. Adams wrote: > > > > > >> What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? > > >> > > >> I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible Code'? > > >> Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing Unified > > >> field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that the > onlyt > > >> extra > > >> dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... and > > >> then I > > >> started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this > > >> mysterious embedded > > >> code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come are > > >> encoded there in, > > >> every living beings personal history, etc... well then there should be > > >> complete > > >> information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact any of > > >> those who claimed > > >> to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info > > >> dissapeared... > > >> well could it be found here? > > >> > > >> thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? > > >> > > >> Don > > > > > > Hello all. > > >I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to > real > > >facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the > > >Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity > > >and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of > the > > >bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and > their > > >relationships. > > > > > >Any thoughts? > > > > > >Cam > > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 18:28:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12646; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:28:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:28:27 -0800 Message-Id: <199903140228.VAA03906@express.globetrotter.net> From: "Patrick Tremblay" To: Subject: TO NORM BISS Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:20:02 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YuuHS3.0.U53.Axnws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9320 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Mr. Biss, I appologize for not trusting you earlier. I think that Mr. Newman has Harsh words and he is bitter. Maybe he really said: "shut up I am the world's greatest scientist" after all. >> "Your comments annoy me! You imply that the Motor I built is extremely >> easy to turn. WRONG! Milton Everett (Mechanical Engineer) could not turn >> the Motor's shaft by hand, just as many others cannot. ---------- > De : Patrick Tremblay > A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Objet : Re: Joe Newman's new motor data analysis > Date : 12 mars, 1999 18:55 > > Hi Norm Biss Or Eric Krieg, > > Thanks for puting light on such a muddy subject, I think I got fooled by > this item for a while and that a lot were fooled too. But it's people like > you that shed the truth or at least question wisely. > > It makes no sense he's been battling 30 years for this thing and no results > yet. and the numbers you are advancing are quite troubling. > > And for the price and certification issues, you are raising a point there, > I even think that not only won't the insurance companies cover for those > motors, but that it is illegal in America to sell such important systems > without them having been approved by the goverment, after all we are living > in an efficient society. > > And I will tell this, all this story about overunity and Joe Newman is > quite spooky. Nothing is happening. I feel something is very wrong here, > that Newman struggled to make an overunity device and no results yet. > > Why does he want money and publicity. > > Instead he should've built a self-sustaining prototype and expose it, and > seek funding, patent it then investors would have beaten themselves up to > have the chance to get their hands on this venture. > > It's illogical to seek funding in a public that has not the expertise in > marketing motors and the understanding of motors. He should seek fundings > from a company like General Dynamics, General Electric. > > All this seems not like a fraud, but like a flaw, a BIG mistake. > > ---------- > > De : Norm Biss > > A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Objet : Re: Joe Newman's new motor data analysis > > Date : 11 mars, 1999 22:28 > > > > To all list members: > > I feel it is time to respond to the misleading information > > being put out > > in regards to the Newman motor data analysis. In addition, > > I want to > > ask some questions, which should have been posed by anyone > > else > > who is interested in this "Technology". > > > > First of all, all Newman is doing is exchanging voltage for > > amperage. > > As we all know, ohms law is inviolate. > > > > Has anyone thought to ask what the result would be, if only > > 12 volts > > from dry cell batteries were used? Conversely, what would > > happen > > if 60 volts of Lead-Acid Batteries were applied to the > > motor? > > > > Joe Newman is assuming he is going to sell a motor which is > > going to > > be used for driving a Generator. Let's address that issue. > > When the > > Y2K bug (supposedly) is going to knock out the Electric > > Power > > Companies, EVERYONE is going to need a backup power source. > > I have done some research, and came up with the following > > information: > > If you are going to use an alternate power source, you are > > going to have > > to provide for all of your power needs. The bare minimum of > > generated > > power necessary to accomplish this is 4KW. 1KW certainly is > > not the > > answer, since your toaster, or Iron will require 1100 > > watts. With the > > figure of 4KW in mind, let's address the type of generator > > needed to > > accomplish this. The average 4KW generator needs 6HP to > > drive it. > > I am assuming a belt driven model, but if you want to use > > gears, or > > direct shaft coupling with a "Love-joy" coupler, the results > > and effects > > will be the same. (A 2KW Generator requires 4HP to drive > > it). Both > > of these Generators MUST turn at 3600 RPM. If Joe Newman > > expects > > 60 volts of dry-cell batteries to accomplish this, it will > > not work. He explains > > how he gets 40 RPM with 60 volts. He will need NINETY times > > that number > > of batteries to reach 3600 RPM! > > > > Lets assume, for the sake of argument, that he is going to > > use a system of gears, > > or pulleys from his 40 RPM, to increase it to 3600 RPM. Any > > logically > > thinking person will immediately ask: Doesn't that mean a > > tremendous amount > > of Belt or Gear Friction? Of course! The question now > > becomes one of adding > > even more batteries. > > > > Actually, the most common sense approach to an emergency > > (Stand-by) system > > for Electric Power Backup, is an Inverter. You can get one > > which is Propane > > powered, for around $2,000.00. Or if you prefer, you can > > get one which runs > > from Deep-cycle, Marine Trolling Batteries. Again, the cost > > is around $2,000.00. > > I cannot forsee anyone wanting to purchase an unproven motor > > for $7,000.00, and > > still have to buy a generator, which the motor will drive, > > for another $600.00 to > > $700.00. In addition, you would have to rig-up your own > > belt drives, etc.. > > An off-the-shelf setup is all ready to go. > > > > Next, we come to a really "Sticky" problem: The motor is > > NOT approved by > > UL (In Canada, CSA). I have checked with Three different > > Insurance Carriers, > > and they informed me that even though the Generator itself > > is UL approved, if > > the motor is not UL approved, it COULD cause your Homeowners > > Policy to > > be Invalidated. In any event, NO Insurance company would > > pay-off for any > > damage to your property caused by a non-UL-approved device. > > > > To get UL approval, an Electric Motor must be submitted to > > UL for testing. > > This requires months of testing, under all conditions, in > > order for UL to > > certify that the motor functions as advertised, and under > > all conditions of > > weather, temperature, humidity, etc. This can take anywhere > > from 3 to 9 > > months. It would be interesting to see if this motor has > > been so certified. > > > > Stephan Hartmann has asked some very pertinent questions > > about the > > "Newman" motor. I, personally, do not feel that the > > questions have been > > answered to anyone's satisfaction. Furthermore, Stephan has > > used Newman's > > "Formula" for years, in various prototypes, and has not yet > > found an Over- > > Unity device. In his book, Joe Newman tries to make it > > sound so simple. > > When people follow his advice, and it doesn't produce as > > advertised, they get > > the reply to the effect that "they can't grasp Joe Newman's > > teachings"! > > > > Now, I must question one other thing about the motor which > > is being offered > > for sale, with "PROMISED" delivery by June, 1999. Joe > > Newman, by his > > own admission, has over $6,000.00 worth of Neodymium magnets > > in the > > prototype motor. How can he sell the entire motor for > > $7,000.00. If, he > > decides to replace the Neodymium magnets with Ceramic > > Magnets, he can > > then build the motor and sell it for that price. However, > > the Ceramic Magnets, > > (Assuming the very best) are only about 60% as strong. The > > reason that I > > know this, is because when I was building the prototype, I > > had to confer > > with several magnet manufacturers. I have their literature > > which details the > > differences between Neodymium and the different grades of > > ceramic > > magnets. > > > > If I were Stephan Hartmann, I think I would seriously > > consider questioning > > Joe Newman on his technology, and exactly who came up with > > the figures > > on the test results. I respect Stephan's knowledge and > > abilities, as I have > > been studying his own efforts at building a Newman Motor. I > > feel that > > Stephan has gone further in his research of the Newman > > motor, than any > > person who has attempted to reproduce it. If Stephan can't > > duplicate the > > results, they probably can't be achieved. > > > > Since I have an intimate knowledge of the prototype, I felt > > that I should > > voice my opinion. If I have stepped on anyone's toes, I > > apologize. I, > > however, cannot apologize for the questions I have asked, > > because > > they should have been asked by several people. > > > > Thank You. > > > > Respectfully, > > Norm Biss > > Erie, Pa. > > 3-11-99 > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 19:04:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22869; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:04:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:04:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36EB278B.BADE1A2E@erie.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:05:47 -0500 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TO NORM BISS References: <199903140228.VAA03906@express.globetrotter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2t1o5.0.Eb5.-Sows"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9321 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: Norm Biss To: Patrick Tremblay Thank you very much. No apology was necessary. I can understand why someone would question some of the things in the article that I wrote. Joe Newman was at our facility for about two months, and in that time, I was able to observe, firsthand, what makes Joe Newman "Tick". I have to honestly admit that Joe Newman can be very charming, when he wants to. On the other hand, some of his mannerisms can be quite annoying. It took a lot of courage to come out on the list and apologize for your skepticism. I not only thank you, but I commend you. All I am trying to do is to get people to view Joe Newman's remarks from a logical and unbiased perspective. Again, thanks Patrick. Regards, Norm Biss Erie, Pa. 3-13-99 Patrick Tremblay wrote: > Dear Mr. Biss, > > I appologize for not trusting you earlier. I think that Mr. Newman has > Harsh words and he is bitter. Maybe he really said: "shut up I am the > world's greatest scientist" after all. > > >> "Your comments annoy me! You imply that the Motor I built is extremely > >> easy to turn. WRONG! Milton Everett (Mechanical Engineer) could not > turn > >> the Motor's shaft by hand, just as many others cannot. > > ---------- > > De : Patrick Tremblay > > A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Objet : Re: Joe Newman's new motor data analysis > > Date : 12 mars, 1999 18:55 > > > > Hi Norm Biss Or Eric Krieg, > > > > Thanks for puting light on such a muddy subject, I think I got fooled by > > this item for a while and that a lot were fooled too. But it's people > like > > you that shed the truth or at least question wisely. > > > > It makes no sense he's been battling 30 years for this thing and no > results > > yet. and the numbers you are advancing are quite troubling. > > > > And for the price and certification issues, you are raising a point > there, > > I even think that not only won't the insurance companies cover for those > > motors, but that it is illegal in America to sell such important systems > > without them having been approved by the goverment, after all we are > living > > in an efficient society. > > > > And I will tell this, all this story about overunity and Joe Newman is > > quite spooky. Nothing is happening. I feel something is very wrong here, > > that Newman struggled to make an overunity device and no results yet. > > > > Why does he want money and publicity. > > > > Instead he should've built a self-sustaining prototype and expose it, and > > seek funding, patent it then investors would have beaten themselves up to > > have the chance to get their hands on this venture. > > > > It's illogical to seek funding in a public that has not the expertise in > > marketing motors and the understanding of motors. He should seek fundings > > from a company like General Dynamics, General Electric. > > > > All this seems not like a fraud, but like a flaw, a BIG mistake. > > > > ---------- > > > De : Norm Biss > > > A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > Objet : Re: Joe Newman's new motor data analysis > > > Date : 11 mars, 1999 22:28 > > > > > > To all list members: > > > I feel it is time to respond to the misleading information > > > being put out > > > in regards to the Newman motor data analysis. In addition, > > > I want to > > > ask some questions, which should have been posed by anyone > > > else > > > who is interested in this "Technology". > > > > > > First of all, all Newman is doing is exchanging voltage for > > > amperage. > > > As we all know, ohms law is inviolate. > > > > > > Has anyone thought to ask what the result would be, if only > > > 12 volts > > > from dry cell batteries were used? Conversely, what would > > > happen > > > if 60 volts of Lead-Acid Batteries were applied to the > > > motor? > > > > > > Joe Newman is assuming he is going to sell a motor which is > > > going to > > > be used for driving a Generator. Let's address that issue. > > > When the > > > Y2K bug (supposedly) is going to knock out the Electric > > > Power > > > Companies, EVERYONE is going to need a backup power source. > > > I have done some research, and came up with the following > > > information: > > > If you are going to use an alternate power source, you are > > > going to have > > > to provide for all of your power needs. The bare minimum of > > > generated > > > power necessary to accomplish this is 4KW. 1KW certainly is > > > not the > > > answer, since your toaster, or Iron will require 1100 > > > watts. With the > > > figure of 4KW in mind, let's address the type of generator > > > needed to > > > accomplish this. The average 4KW generator needs 6HP to > > > drive it. > > > I am assuming a belt driven model, but if you want to use > > > gears, or > > > direct shaft coupling with a "Love-joy" coupler, the results > > > and effects > > > will be the same. (A 2KW Generator requires 4HP to drive > > > it). Both > > > of these Generators MUST turn at 3600 RPM. If Joe Newman > > > expects > > > 60 volts of dry-cell batteries to accomplish this, it will > > > not work. He explains > > > how he gets 40 RPM with 60 volts. He will need NINETY times > > > that number > > > of batteries to reach 3600 RPM! > > > > > > Lets assume, for the sake of argument, that he is going to > > > use a system of gears, > > > or pulleys from his 40 RPM, to increase it to 3600 RPM. Any > > > logically > > > thinking person will immediately ask: Doesn't that mean a > > > tremendous amount > > > of Belt or Gear Friction? Of course! The question now > > > becomes one of adding > > > even more batteries. > > > > > > Actually, the most common sense approach to an emergency > > > (Stand-by) system > > > for Electric Power Backup, is an Inverter. You can get one > > > which is Propane > > > powered, for around $2,000.00. Or if you prefer, you can > > > get one which runs > > > from Deep-cycle, Marine Trolling Batteries. Again, the cost > > > is around $2,000.00. > > > I cannot forsee anyone wanting to purchase an unproven motor > > > for $7,000.00, and > > > still have to buy a generator, which the motor will drive, > > > for another $600.00 to > > > $700.00. In addition, you would have to rig-up your own > > > belt drives, etc.. > > > An off-the-shelf setup is all ready to go. > > > > > > Next, we come to a really "Sticky" problem: The motor is > > > NOT approved by > > > UL (In Canada, CSA). I have checked with Three different > > > Insurance Carriers, > > > and they informed me that even though the Generator itself > > > is UL approved, if > > > the motor is not UL approved, it COULD cause your Homeowners > > > Policy to > > > be Invalidated. In any event, NO Insurance company would > > > pay-off for any > > > damage to your property caused by a non-UL-approved device. > > > > > > To get UL approval, an Electric Motor must be submitted to > > > UL for testing. > > > This requires months of testing, under all conditions, in > > > order for UL to > > > certify that the motor functions as advertised, and under > > > all conditions of > > > weather, temperature, humidity, etc. This can take anywhere > > > from 3 to 9 > > > months. It would be interesting to see if this motor has > > > been so certified. > > > > > > Stephan Hartmann has asked some very pertinent questions > > > about the > > > "Newman" motor. I, personally, do not feel that the > > > questions have been > > > answered to anyone's satisfaction. Furthermore, Stephan has > > > used Newman's > > > "Formula" for years, in various prototypes, and has not yet > > > found an Over- > > > Unity device. In his book, Joe Newman tries to make it > > > sound so simple. > > > When people follow his advice, and it doesn't produce as > > > advertised, they get > > > the reply to the effect that "they can't grasp Joe Newman's > > > teachings"! > > > > > > Now, I must question one other thing about the motor which > > > is being offered > > > for sale, with "PROMISED" delivery by June, 1999. Joe > > > Newman, by his > > > own admission, has over $6,000.00 worth of Neodymium magnets > > > in the > > > prototype motor. How can he sell the entire motor for > > > $7,000.00. If, he > > > decides to replace the Neodymium magnets with Ceramic > > > Magnets, he can > > > then build the motor and sell it for that price. However, > > > the Ceramic Magnets, > > > (Assuming the very best) are only about 60% as strong. The > > > reason that I > > > know this, is because when I was building the prototype, I > > > had to confer > > > with several magnet manufacturers. I have their literature > > > which details the > > > differences between Neodymium and the different grades of > > > ceramic > > > magnets. > > > > > > If I were Stephan Hartmann, I think I would seriously > > > consider questioning > > > Joe Newman on his technology, and exactly who came up with > > > the figures > > > on the test results. I respect Stephan's knowledge and > > > abilities, as I have > > > been studying his own efforts at building a Newman Motor. I > > > feel that > > > Stephan has gone further in his research of the Newman > > > motor, than any > > > person who has attempted to reproduce it. If Stephan can't > > > duplicate the > > > results, they probably can't be achieved. > > > > > > Since I have an intimate knowledge of the prototype, I felt > > > that I should > > > voice my opinion. If I have stepped on anyone's toes, I > > > apologize. I, > > > however, cannot apologize for the questions I have asked, > > > because > > > they should have been asked by several people. > > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Norm Biss > > > Erie, Pa. > > > 3-11-99 > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 19:08:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24050; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:08:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:08:22 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990314031505.00957630@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:15:05 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Does Sweet's work explain Searl's device? Resent-Message-ID: <"rwvnj.0.dt5.bWows"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9322 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:37 AM 3/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I have just updated my web pages to explain a connection I see between >Floyd Sweet's work and John Searl's devices. I don't remember if I >explained this here before or not or if someone else has.... So if >it has been mentioned before, please let me know. Did you signed a non disclosure agreement? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 19:33:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26865; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:32:16 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:32:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000601be6dcc$f9b817a0$193484ce@aj98> From: "AJ Dubla" To: Subject: Re: Does Sweet's work explain Searl's device? Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:44:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1Hl3u3.0.cZ6.ysows"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9323 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robert, There definitely are some very interesting and thought provoking parallels between the two. In my search for real BaFe ceramic magnets, I've purchased boxes of assorted magnets. After your initial posting of your motor idea / Searl research, I started playing with stacks of disks in the manner explained on your site. It does seem that with a self contained, self oscillating field, the principle could work. While after many attempts and still empty handed, I continue to believe the trick is to pump the magnet sharply with a DC spike through a high amp turn coil at a certain mystery interval of sinusoidal waveform affecting the magnet through a bifilar coil ("scalar wave"). The sharp jolt of EM from the DC spike theoretically shocks the Ba atoms into a quasi stable oscillation which allows the "scalar wave" to become imprinted upon the magnetic oscillation of the Ba atoms themselves. If anyone out there knows Mr. Bearden, please run this by him and let me know what he says. Alan -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gray To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 8:28 AM Subject: Does Sweet's work explain Searl's device? >Hi everyone, > >I have just updated my web pages to explain a connection I see between >Floyd Sweet's work and John Searl's devices. I don't remember if I >explained this here before or not or if someone else has.... So if >it has been mentioned before, please let me know. > >You can check it out at >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/energy01.html > >I also give some references to magnetostatic oscillations in magnetic material. > >Basically, Sweet applied a special magnetization process to his magnets >involving >an AC field. Searl uses an AC field as well. With a small excitation >coil, Sweet was able to produce "large" oscillations in his magnets. > >If these oscillation were to be induced around a cylinder (like a traveling >wave around a cylinder) they would be able >to "carry along" stacks of disk magnets like that of Searl's devices. I give a >little more detail on my web pages, but that's the basic idea. I have no idea >if this if how Searl's devices really worked or not, but the connection to >Sweet's >work is interesting to think about. > >Bob Gray > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 20:12:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11082; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:12:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 20:12:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199903140412.WAA12100@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:10:02 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1VlUv3.0.-i2.NSpws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9324 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Very good.!!!! ============== ---------- > From: Norm Biss > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 8:17 PM > > Joe Portman Sr., wrote, that there was no real definition for the word > "Eternity". I have to agree with him. However, there is one example > by which we may be able to grasp the meaning of the word. > > Visualize, if you will: > There is a mountain, which is a perfect cube. It is one mile on each > side. This mountain is made out of pure Diamond. > Once every thousand years, a tiny bird flies out to the mountain to > sharpen it's beak. When the bird has finally worn away the mountain > to nothing, that is the FIRST DAY of eternity. > > When viewed in this perspective, Eternity is a very long time, indeed. > > Regards, > Norm Biss > > > > > "Joe Portman Sr." wrote: > > > Man did not invent the Trinity. It was made known to us by God. It is too > > complex for our finite brain and therefore we should not waste our time > > trying to figure it out. If we get to heaven, maybe we'll find out. Man has > > invented terms like eternity and infinity, and cannot detail a scientific > > definition because even these lowly terms are too difficult for our tiny > > finite brain. It is therefore easier to be childlike and accept that the > > universe expands farther than we can count. Are we not in awe of the > > universe ? If our little brain is awed by it, think how bored God must be > > with it. Maybe he has created a million other totally different systems > > with different laws, just to amuse himself. Let us all hope that He doesn't > > get too bored too soon with this one and decide to erase it. Religion is of > > man and run by men. We know without being told that there is a God, all we > > have to do is think for a while, and we know it. It behooves us then to > > think of Him each and every day. As for atheists, I heard a saying > > once...."There are no atheists in a foxhole". > > I also feel sorry for them, for in a bad pinch, they have no one to > > call out to for help.---------- > > Heck, I'm writing a book.....so I'll stop now....Joe Portman > > .com> > > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 6:31 PM > > > > > > In the name of the anode, the cathode and the holy grid. > > > > > > K. > > > > > > (Apologies to Thomas Pynchon) > > > > > > At 08:03 AM 1/3/97 +1100, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >Don J. S. Adams wrote: > > > > > > > >> What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? > > > >> > > > >> I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible Code'? > > > >> Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing Unified > > > >> field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that the > > onlyt > > > >> extra > > > >> dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... and > > > >> then I > > > >> started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this > > > >> mysterious embedded > > > >> code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come are > > > >> encoded there in, > > > >> every living beings personal history, etc... well then there should be > > > >> complete > > > >> information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact any of > > > >> those who claimed > > > >> to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info > > > >> dissapeared... > > > >> well could it be found here? > > > >> > > > >> thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? > > > >> > > > >> Don > > > > > > > > Hello all. > > > >I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to > > real > > > >facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the > > > >Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity > > > >and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of > > the > > > >bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and > > their > > > >relationships. > > > > > > > >Any thoughts? > > > > > > > >Cam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 22:26:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11331; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:26:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:26:09 -0800 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: High energy info wanted. Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:24:26 +0200 Message-ID: <01be6de3$4f46db00$38d61ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"yd6Ai.0.ym2.1Qrws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9325 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dameron To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: 12 March 1999 6:14 Subject: Re: High energy info wanted. >If you don't already know about it, you might start with >Jim Lux' site: >http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/hvmain.htm Thank you Dave an excellent site the downloadable manual is great Martin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 22:40:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14214; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:40:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:40:53 -0800 Message-ID: <36EB3DE5.AD4CAE6F@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:41:09 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: <199903140200.UAA16904@mw1.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"K0-3Z.0._T3.qdrws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9327 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Joe, enjoyed the book you were writing! :) Count on me to buy one when it hits the market! Cheers, Don Joe Portman Sr. wrote: > > Man did not invent the Trinity. It was made known to us by God. It is too > complex for our finite brain and therefore we should not waste our time > trying to figure it out. If we get to heaven, maybe we'll find out. Man has > invented terms like eternity and infinity, and cannot detail a scientific > definition because even these lowly terms are too difficult for our tiny > finite brain. It is therefore easier to be childlike and accept that the > universe expands farther than we can count. Are we not in awe of the > universe ? If our little brain is awed by it, think how bored God must be > with it. Maybe he has created a million other totally different systems > with different laws, just to amuse himself. Let us all hope that He doesn't > get too bored too soon with this one and decide to erase it. Religion is of > man and run by men. We know without being told that there is a God, all we > have to do is think for a while, and we know it. It behooves us then to > think of Him each and every day. As for atheists, I heard a saying > once...."There are no atheists in a foxhole". > I also feel sorry for them, for in a bad pinch, they have no one to > call out to for help.---------- > Heck, I'm writing a book.....so I'll stop now....Joe Portman > .com> > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 6:31 PM > > > > In the name of the anode, the cathode and the holy grid. > > > > K. > > > > (Apologies to Thomas Pynchon) > > > > At 08:03 AM 1/3/97 +1100, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Don J. S. Adams wrote: > > > > > >> What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? > > >> > > >> I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible Code'? > > >> Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing Unified > > >> field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that the > onlyt > > >> extra > > >> dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... and > > >> then I > > >> started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this > > >> mysterious embedded > > >> code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come are > > >> encoded there in, > > >> every living beings personal history, etc... well then there should be > > >> complete > > >> information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact any of > > >> those who claimed > > >> to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info > > >> dissapeared... > > >> well could it be found here? > > >> > > >> thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? > > >> > > >> Don > > > > > > Hello all. > > >I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related to > real > > >facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between the > > >Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, electricity > > >and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy of > the > > >bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and > their > > >relationships. > > > > > >Any thoughts? > > > > > >Cam > > > > > > > > > > > -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 13 22:40:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14179; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:40:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:40:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36EB3DDE.F1B67570@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:41:02 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Exotic Research Conference (Seattle) Postponed References: <199903132225.RAA11275@icx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QxrRN3.0.ST3.odrws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9326 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I hate to say this, but I think the most likely reason it was postpend was for financial reasons... something as simple as income from ticket sales simply didnt cover anticipated expenses or didnt realize a high enought profit, thus the delay. I commented on how steep the cost was, approx $300.0 per person. I suspect they'd do much better if they planned for lowering their ticket cost drastically and trying to get a larger crowd. Interestingly I mentioned this to them a few days ago and now they are postponing and have rescheduled the conference in a facility that hs 3 times the capacity... now if they'll lower the price to a more reasonable amount, their odds of financial success should be better I imagine. Richard Austin wrote: > > Conference Ideas... > > Hello Steve, > > Six months is much too long to wait for this information. The world > situation is changing too fast to hold back on this info. That is probably > why you ran into so much trouble. There are forces out there who would NOT > want it to happen. > > If there are truly solutions out there, we need to know. Time is of the > essence. Since the conference cannot happen, how about a push to get the > information out to us. Especially the detail that will allow us to duplicate > the breakthroughs. We will enjoy looking at it in July for those who can > attend. > > In the meantime, I suggest that you or someone you trust create a website to > point to each technology that is proven. The more detail and verification > the better. > > -- > Richard Austin, Director > Institute for Planetary Renewal, http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > "Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances for survival of life > on Earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -- Albert Einstein. > > ...snip > > > I wish to thank our many supporters who have helped in this endeavor and > > want them to know that their work was not in vain. We will be having the > > conference, only it will be in Mesa, Arizona July 22-25. The work in > > bringing new technology to light will continue and in the endÖ a new > > paradigm for energy independence and alternative health will emerge. > > > > Please help pass the word. > > > > Thank you for your support, > > > > Steve Elswick > > > > Publisher, Exotic Research Report > > > > http://www.exoticresearch.com > > > > > > > > -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 02:53:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA32679; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 02:52:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 02:52:57 -0800 From: "Martin" To: Cc: "KeelyNet" Subject: Power Wheel Info Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:51:02 +0200 Message-ID: <01be6e08$8d9b1fe0$38d61ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"keCEW2.0.R-7.8Kvws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9328 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There was a recent post regarding the POWER WHEEL, supposedly a copy of the Swiss ML machine. I would be interested to know if anyone has the original article on this device or maybe construction details they could share with me. Martin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 06:27:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA10095; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:27:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:27:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199903141427.IAA06322@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:25:43 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IXI7a3.0.bT2.CTyws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9329 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wonder if the bird ever made it to 1001 years old.......and also, how many birds have there been consecutively. Joe Portman ========= ---------- > From: Joe Portman Sr. > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 10:10 PM > > Very good.!!!! > ============== > > ---------- > > From: Norm Biss > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 8:17 PM > > > > Joe Portman Sr., wrote, that there was no real definition for the word > > "Eternity". I have to agree with him. However, there is one example > > by which we may be able to grasp the meaning of the word. > > > > Visualize, if you will: > > There is a mountain, which is a perfect cube. It is one mile on each > > side. This mountain is made out of pure Diamond. > > Once every thousand years, a tiny bird flies out to the mountain to > > sharpen it's beak. When the bird has finally worn away the mountain > > to nothing, that is the FIRST DAY of eternity. > > > > When viewed in this perspective, Eternity is a very long time, indeed. > > > > Regards, > > Norm Biss > > > > > > > > > > "Joe Portman Sr." wrote: > > > > > Man did not invent the Trinity. It was made known to us by God. It is > too > > > complex for our finite brain and therefore we should not waste our time > > > trying to figure it out. If we get to heaven, maybe we'll find out. Man > has > > > invented terms like eternity and infinity, and cannot detail a > scientific > > > definition because even these lowly terms are too difficult for our > tiny > > > finite brain. It is therefore easier to be childlike and accept that > the > > > universe expands farther than we can count. Are we not in awe of the > > > universe ? If our little brain is awed by it, think how bored God must > be > > > with it. Maybe he has created a million other totally different systems > > > with different laws, just to amuse himself. Let us all hope that He > doesn't > > > get too bored too soon with this one and decide to erase it. Religion > is of > > > man and run by men. We know without being told that there is a God, all > we > > > have to do is think for a while, and we know it. It behooves us then to > > > think of Him each and every day. As for atheists, I heard a saying > > > once...."There are no atheists in a foxhole". > > > I also feel sorry for them, for in a bad pinch, they have no one to > > > call out to for help.---------- > > > Heck, I'm writing a book.....so I'll stop now....Joe Portman > > > .com> > > > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > > > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 6:31 PM > > > > > > > > In the name of the anode, the cathode and the holy grid. > > > > > > > > K. > > > > > > > > (Apologies to Thomas Pynchon) > > > > > > > > At 08:03 AM 1/3/97 +1100, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Don J. S. Adams wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? > > > > >> > > > > >> I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible > Code'? > > > > >> Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing Unified > > > > >> field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that the > > > onlyt > > > > >> extra > > > > >> dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... > and > > > > >> then I > > > > >> started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this > > > > >> mysterious embedded > > > > >> code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come > are > > > > >> encoded there in, > > > > >> every living beings personal history, etc... well then there > should be > > > > >> complete > > > > >> information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact any > of > > > > >> those who claimed > > > > >> to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info > > > > >> dissapeared... > > > > >> well could it be found here? > > > > >> > > > > >> thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? > > > > >> > > > > >> Don > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. > > > > >I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be related > to > > > real > > > > >facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation between > the > > > > >Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, > electricity > > > > >and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a copy > of > > > the > > > > >bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity and > > > their > > > > >relationships. > > > > > > > > > >Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > > >Cam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 06:34:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12753; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:33:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:33:58 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBCB5B.596F8326@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:44:43 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does Sweet's work explain Searl's device? References: <1.5.4.32.19990314031505.00957630@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e3Avr2.0.A73.MZyws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9330 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Dennis C. Lee" wrote: > At 10:37 AM 3/13/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi everyone, > > > >I have just updated my web pages to explain a connection I see between > >Floyd Sweet's work and John Searl's devices. I don't remember if I > >explained this here before or not or if someone else has.... So if > >it has been mentioned before, please let me know. > > Did you signed a non disclosure agreement? Yes. I signed a non-disclosure with D.I.S.C. USA not to reveal any information which *DISC* or *Prof. Searl* related to me which is not in his books. I did not agree to turn over *my* ideas on what *might* make Searl-like devices work so that my ideas can become the property of DISC and Prof. Searl. As far as I am concerned, I have kept to the non-disclosure agreement. I have not reveal any information which came to me through DISC USA or Prof. Searl. I have done a lot of research on my own and I have my own ideas on how to get a magnet to move on its own. I don't think the non-disclosure prevents me from doing my own thinking and research. I volunteered to follow *Prof. Searl's instructions* on how to build his device. I did not volunteer to figure it out for him. I have asked John Thomas (DISC, USA) to review my web site to make sure I am not revealing any information I obtained from him or Prof. Searl. I told him that I would remove such information if he could show me that (1) the information is not in any of Prof. Searl's books, (2) the information was known to Prof. Searl prior to my research/writing, (3) the information is not available through other sources (i.e., I could not have obtain the information from going to the scientific literature and doing my own research.) John Thomas has not pointed out anything that I need to remove from my web page. (I have not asked him to review my web site since I included my ideas on using Sweet's work to "explain(?)" Searl's devices. I am confident that any information I mention about Searl's devices is in Searl's books or video and Sweet's work was available to me through the web and other references. It was while I was researching Sweet's work that this idea came to me (as did my ideas on magnetic bubbles, thanks to Alan Dubla's web page and the other magnetic bubble references I give on my web page.)) As I mention on my web page, since I can't make heads or tails out of what Prof. Searl clams makes his devices work, I am free to do my own research and come up with my own ideas. Note that none of my ideas seem to fit exactly what Prof. Searl claims. I have listed several differences on my magnetic bubble web pages and I have asked John Thomas and Prof. Searl to "explain away" these differences if they *really* think this is "identical" to the way Searl's devices work. They have not responded with any explanation for these differences. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 06:41:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15749; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:40:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:40:56 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBCACA.D193B3FC@erie.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:42:18 -0500 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? References: <199903141427.IAA06322@mw2.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hAcXF3.0.-r3.ufyws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9331 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: IMHO, the bird is a baby phoenix. When it sharpens it's beak, it creates a tremendous amount of frictional heat, which causes it to immediately self- immolate. Of course, since it is a Phoenix, it immediately rises from it's own ashes. Only one bird involved. How's that for stretching the imagination? Regards, Norm Biss "Joe Portman Sr." wrote: > I wonder if the bird ever made it to 1001 years old.......and also, how > many birds have there been consecutively. > Joe Portman > ========= > > ---------- > > From: Joe Portman Sr. > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 10:10 PM > > > > Very good.!!!! > > ============== > > > > ---------- > > > From: Norm Biss > > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 8:17 PM > > > > > > Joe Portman Sr., wrote, that there was no real definition for the word > > > "Eternity". I have to agree with him. However, there is one example > > > by which we may be able to grasp the meaning of the word. > > > > > > Visualize, if you will: > > > There is a mountain, which is a perfect cube. It is one mile on each > > > side. This mountain is made out of pure Diamond. > > > Once every thousand years, a tiny bird flies out to the mountain to > > > sharpen it's beak. When the bird has finally worn away the mountain > > > to nothing, that is the FIRST DAY of eternity. > > > > > > When viewed in this perspective, Eternity is a very long time, indeed. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Norm Biss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Joe Portman Sr." wrote: > > > > > > > Man did not invent the Trinity. It was made known to us by God. It is > > too > > > > complex for our finite brain and therefore we should not waste our > time > > > > trying to figure it out. If we get to heaven, maybe we'll find out. > Man > > has > > > > invented terms like eternity and infinity, and cannot detail a > > scientific > > > > definition because even these lowly terms are too difficult for our > > tiny > > > > finite brain. It is therefore easier to be childlike and accept that > > the > > > > universe expands farther than we can count. Are we not in awe of the > > > > universe ? If our little brain is awed by it, think how bored God > must > > be > > > > with it. Maybe he has created a million other totally different > systems > > > > with different laws, just to amuse himself. Let us all hope that He > > doesn't > > > > get too bored too soon with this one and decide to erase it. Religion > > is of > > > > man and run by men. We know without being told that there is a God, > all > > we > > > > have to do is think for a while, and we know it. It behooves us then > to > > > > think of Him each and every day. As for atheists, I heard a saying > > > > once...."There are no atheists in a foxhole". > > > > I also feel sorry for them, for in a bad pinch, they have no one > to > > > > call out to for help.---------- > > > > Heck, I'm writing a book.....so I'll stop now....Joe Portman > > > > .com> > > > > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? > > > > > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 6:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > In the name of the anode, the cathode and the holy grid. > > > > > > > > > > K. > > > > > > > > > > (Apologies to Thomas Pynchon) > > > > > > > > > > At 08:03 AM 1/3/97 +1100, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Don J. S. Adams wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible > > Code'? > > > > > >> Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing > Unified > > > > > >> field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that > the > > > > onlyt > > > > > >> extra > > > > > >> dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... > > and > > > > > >> then I > > > > > >> started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this > > > > > >> mysterious embedded > > > > > >> code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come > > are > > > > > >> encoded there in, > > > > > >> every living beings personal history, etc... well then there > > should be > > > > > >> complete > > > > > >> information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact > any > > of > > > > > >> those who claimed > > > > > >> to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info > > > > > >> dissapeared... > > > > > >> well could it be found here? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Don > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. > > > > > >I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be > related > > to > > > > real > > > > > >facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation > between > > the > > > > > >Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, > > electricity > > > > > >and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a > copy > > of > > > > the > > > > > >bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity > and > > > > their > > > > > >relationships. > > > > > > > > > > > >Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > >Cam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 07:07:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA23207; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:07:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:07:46 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990314151425.0094dd84@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:14:25 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Does Sweet's work explain Searl's device? Resent-Message-ID: <"kczU13.0.Qg5.23zws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9332 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:44 AM 3/14/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >> Did you signed a non disclosure agreement? > >Yes. I signed a non-disclosure with D.I.S.C. USA not to reveal any >information >which *DISC* or *Prof. Searl* related to me which is not in his books. I >did not >agree to turn over *my* ideas on what *might* make Searl-like devices work >so >that my ideas can become the property of DISC and Prof. Searl. As far as >I am >concerned, I have kept to the non-disclosure agreement. I have not reveal >any information which came to me through DISC USA or Prof. Searl. I have >done >a lot of research on my own and I have my own ideas on how to get a magnet >to >move on its own. I don't think the non-disclosure prevents me from doing >my own >thinking and research. I volunteered to follow *Prof. Searl's >instructions* on how to >build his device. I did not volunteer to figure it out for him. You're too impatient. With a response as above, who would want to disclose anything to you in the future? Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 09:01:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA21432; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:01:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:01:34 -0800 Message-ID: <36EBEDF4.96218FAE@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:12:20 -0500 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does Sweet's work explain Searl's device? References: <1.5.4.32.19990314151425.0094dd84@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ww6VG3.0.nE5.kj-ws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9333 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > You're too impatient. With a response as above, who would want to disclose > anything to you in the future? > > Regards; > Dennis > I don't understand your comment. What do you mean by "You're to impatient"? I should be waiting for something? As to others not wanting to disclose anything to me in the future, that's up to the people I'll be dealing with in the future. If "they" have "confidential" or proprietary information and they don't want to disclose it to me, I have nothing to complain about. Its their information. If someone thinks I have revealed confidential or proprietary information, I think its up to them to point out *specificly* what I said or wrote which is proprietary or confidential so that I can come to understand where I have crossed the line. In the case of DISC and Prof. Searl, I have attempted on several occasions to give them a chance to point out to me what *specific* statements I have said or written which reveals confidential or proprietary information. I have not received any response which lists the offending statements. And I really wish they (DISC and/or Searl) would. As it is, I have in my mind what I consider DISC's and Prof. Searl's "confidential information" which they have given to me and I have never written or discussed this information with anyone (as far as I can tell.) So, if DISC and/or Prof. Searl have a problem with the information I am now writing about, they should point out the offending items and be prepared to *show* me that they revealed this information to me and that this information is not otherwise available to the general public. (I can show where I got the basis for my ideas and its not from any *confidential* info from DISC or Prof. Searl.) The accused should have the right to "face" his accuser. If I am accused of revealing confidential material then *they* have the obligation to point out specifically which are the offending statements. I would then at least have a starting point for further deliberation/discussion. (I certainly acknowledge the possibility that what I think is confidential information and what DISC and Prof. Searl think is confidential information may not be the same. Which is exactly why I have asked them to point out what this confidential information is so that I do not reveal it in the future.) In my opinion, I have stopped trying to figure out how Prof. Searl has made his devices work and I have started to try to figure out my own way to make a magnet motor work. You are free to do this as well. As I write on my web pages, the device I illustrate *is* the general setup of Searl's devices. I am glad to acknowledge this. However, the explanation of *how* it *might* work is my own. If you think the info I provide really is the way Searl's devices work I'd like to discuss this with you because I do not know this to be the case. Who knows, it *might* turn out to be the same after all. But right now, I see too many differences. I don't think Sweet's work matches up exactly with Prof. Searl's. I was just trying to point out similarities that I see and that I think anyone else would see if they read a little bit about Searl's devices and then read a little bit about Sweet's devices. I don't see anything "confidential" in that. Should any investigation into Sweet's work now fall under the ownership of DISC and Prof. Searl? I hope this will eventually lead into a discussion of the ideas I presented. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 09:23:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26444; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:23:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:23:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199903141723.OAA03055@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Improving To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:24:42 -2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Does Sweet's work explain Searl's device? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36EBEDF4.96218FAE@servtech.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"egI2X.0.0T6.72_ws"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9334 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just don't understand how Sweet could drive the magnetic bubbles with a coil positioned parallel to the lines of force between the two magnets. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 11:30:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26484; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:29:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:29:58 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:30:50 +0100 Message-Id: <199903141930.UAA17411@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: mark@plug-in.com.br, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Does Sweet's work explain Searl's device? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"QSkmd3.0.jT6.su0xs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9335 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 14:24 14.03.99 -2, mark@plug-in.com.br wrote: > >I just don't understand how Sweet could drive the magnetic >bubbles with a coil positioned parallel to the lines of force >between the two magnets. > You can probably move the bubbles via 2 coils wound around a bar ferrite magnet where the bubble is centered in the middle. Then the bubble can move left and right with the helper field. The output coil is probably also centered in front of the bubble and at a fixed location. So you can induce a dphi/dt flux change inside the output coil with very few input power via the helper coils. The helper coils and the output coils have their fields 90 degrees orthogonal seperated, which does not influence each other. This is just my view, how it could work... Regards, Stefan. >--- >Marcelo Puhl >mark@plug-in.com.br > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 12:36:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA14717; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:36:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:36:00 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:35:11 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: Richard Austin Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, dennisgarrett@webtv.net, Scott Willing Subject: Re: rife/bare In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3QuNC2.0.sb3.ms1xs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9336 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Richard, Dennis, David and others: Could we use the Rife technlogy to kill pathogens, viruses, parasites and bacteria in drinking/grey/reuse water? Has anyone in the real world done this? If so we would like to try building one and perform tests. We are familiar with Dr. Hulda Clark's Zapper, the work of Dr. Bob Beck and the Electrifier of Thomas Miller. Advice and suggestions welcomed. Jorg Ostrowski _______________________________________________________________________ On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Richard Austin wrote: > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Dennis Garrett > > > >>RE: RIFE > >>anybody have any experience with building one of these units? > >>i want to get the book and try it, but i want to know some competent > >>advice is available when (not if, when) i need it. > >>thanks in advance, Dennis > >I made a RIFE unit using an audio amp, PC sound card and Sound Forge > >software. > >Connect the output of the PC sound card to the input of the audio amp. > >Connect the speaker cable from the audio amp to your electrodes. Synthesise > >frequencies using Sound Forge, guided by the many frequency tables that are > >on the web. > > > >Sound Forge can be obtained by doing a web search for 'Sound Forge' > > > >? Or is RIFE the one with the tube ? > > > >Best regards > > > >David Callaghan > > The Rife one is with the tube. I have seen the Bare unit destroy protozoa right before my eye (using his dark field microscope). Apparently frequencies under about 20 Hz destroys most pathogens whereas the Rife frequencies are resonant to particular org anisms. Hulda Clark in her book, The Cure for All Diseases gives specific frequencies for various pathogens. Probably a list is on the net somewhere. > > > Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU > Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 13:35:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30980; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:34:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:34:49 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC0F65.E7FECD7@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:35:01 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: rife/bare References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jxkyN.0.wZ7.tj2xs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9337 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: yup, this is done... in fact I recall hearing quite a while ago that there is actually commercial / industrial applications of this. Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote: > > Richard, Dennis, David and others: Could we use the Rife technlogy to kill > pathogens, viruses, parasites and bacteria in drinking/grey/reuse > water? Has anyone in the real world done this? If so we would like to > try building one and perform tests. We are familiar with Dr. > Hulda Clark's Zapper, the work of Dr. Bob Beck and the Electrifier of > Thomas Miller. Advice and suggestions welcomed. Jorg Ostrowski > _______________________________________________________________________ > On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Richard Austin wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Dennis Garrett > > > > > >>RE: RIFE > > >>anybody have any experience with building one of these units? > > >>i want to get the book and try it, but i want to know some competent > > >>advice is available when (not if, when) i need it. > > >>thanks in advance, Dennis > > > >I made a RIFE unit using an audio amp, PC sound card and Sound Forge > > >software. > > >Connect the output of the PC sound card to the input of the audio amp. > > >Connect the speaker cable from the audio amp to your electrodes. Synthesise > > >frequencies using Sound Forge, guided by the many frequency tables that are > > >on the web. > > > > > >Sound Forge can be obtained by doing a web search for 'Sound Forge' > > > > > >? Or is RIFE the one with the tube ? > > > > > >Best regards > > > > > >David Callaghan > > > > The Rife one is with the tube. I have seen the Bare unit destroy protozoa right before my eye (using his dark field microscope). Apparently frequencies under about 20 Hz destroys most pathogens whereas the Rife frequencies are resonant to particular o rganisms. Hulda Clark in her book, The Cure for All Diseases gives specific frequencies for various pathogens. Probably a list is on the net somewhere. > > > > > > Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU > > Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > > > > -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 13:35:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31045; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:34:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:34:58 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC0F79.A246B526@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:35:21 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, queue@citytel.net Subject: Bible Codes - More SOLID Mckay refutation? References: <01be6e08$8d9b1fe0$38d61ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2PWyB2.0.na7._j2xs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9338 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Subject: Codes Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:33:00 +0200 From: "Shraga Simmons" Reply-To: ssimmons@aish.edu Dear Don, Here's a good piece by the leading Codes researcher, Doron Witztum: More than a decade ago, Professor Eliyahu Rips of the Department of Mathematics of Hebrew University became aware of some of Rabbi Weissmandl's research. Rabbi Weissmandl had shown patterns of ELSs that intuitively seemed far too strong to have been accidental. The question that Professor Rips asked himself was: Using modern computers and employing a scientific methodology, can the existence of codes in the Torah formed by ELSs be demonstrated? After Professor Rips' early research in the topic, he asked me to join him in this enterprise. I hesitated. I was then learning Torah full time, and had given up my doctoral work in physics to do so. If anything were to come of this project, it would obviously be very time-consuming and distract me from my Torah studies. I consulted with HaRav Shlomo Fisher, who encouraged me in the strongest terms to engage in this research. One of the questions I asked Rabbi Fisher at our first meeting on this subject was whether our text of the Torah is accurate. He told me that we could fully rely on our text. Later, after we had achieved the first promising results, I spoke again with both Rabbi Fisher and Rabbi Shmuel Auerbach, and both insisted that I continue with the research. Over the years, I also consulted on several occasions (twice together with Rabbi Fisher) with HaRav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt"l, who gave me his blessing to disseminate our findings as widely as possible. We raised a number of issues with him in these meetings. One of these was the potential for others to create counterfeit codes, lacking any scientific foundation, that could be used for a variety of purposes, including by Christian missionaries. Rabbi Shlomo Zalman assured us that this would happen, but nevertheless told us to carry on. "Don't pay attention to scoffers and gentiles," he said. Nine years ago, Professor Rips and I visited Rabbi Shlomo Zalman to discuss the criticisms of an Orthodox statistician from Australia, who was concerned about the use of the Torah Codes in kiruv work. Rabbi Shlomo Zalman's response was the same: He smiled and told us not to worry. Our initial research in Torah Codes produced some very exciting results. I discovered certain conditions under which conceptually related ELSs appear in close proximity to one another. Professor Rips made an important contribution by developing a measure of the statistical significance of the proximities discovered, and Yoav Rosenberg developed the necessary computer software for running the experiments. After several minor experiments in different subjects, we decided upon a large scale experiment. Professor Rips suggested the idea of testing the proximity between the names of famous rabbis, expressed as ELSs, and the dates of their birth and/or death as expressed as ELSs (the so-called "Famous Rabbis Experiment"). We created a list of famous rabbis comprised of all those whose biographies take up three columns or more in the Encyclopedia of the Great Men of Israel and for whom there were dates of birth and death. Having compiled our list, we realized that the names of these famous rabbis might be expressed by a number of different appellations. We approached Professor Shlomo Zalman Havlin, professor of both Talmud and Informations Sciences at Bar Ilan University, and one of the world's leading experts in Hebrew bibliography, and asked him to create a list of appellations for the list of famous rabbis. At the same time, we requested that Yaakov Auerbach, z"l, a linguist, provide a set of spelling rules to be followed. Using the list created by Professor Havlin and Yaakov Auerbach's rules, we ran our experiment and obtained statistical results that were highly significant. These results were then sent to Professor David Kazhdan at Harvard University, who in turn forwarded them to Professor Persi Diaconis, one of the world's leading statisticians. Professor Diaconis challenged us to run a new experiment on a second list of rabbis. This time we chose those whose biographies take up between 11/2 and 3 columns in the aforementioned encyclopedia, and again asked Professor Havlin to prepare a list of appellations. That experiment, too, yielded highly significant results.5 * * * DEFENSE OF THE FAMOUS RABBIS EXPERIMENT As the best-known verification of the Torah Codes, the "Famous Rabbis Experiment" has attracted the majority of fire from those who reject the existence of Torah Codes. Those attacks have focused primarily on claims that the data was "cooked" in one way or another, and the experiment was not a true a priori experiment following fixed rules determined in advance. Essentially the claim is that we first ran a multitude of experiments until we achieved statistically significant data, and only then did we develop our rules for the experiment to comport with the data. Professor Simon follows that approach.6 He is too much the gentleman to say outright that we only reported on our successful results out of a multitude of failures. But that is his basic claim. Indeed, he repeatedly characterizes various aspects of the experiment as ad hoc, i.e. based on rules determined after the fact, rather than a priori. Professor Simon begins his critique of the "Famous Rabbis Experiment" by charging proponents of the Torah Codes with grossly overstating the significance of the fact that the results of the experiment were published in a respected, refereed scientific journal. We can readily concede his general point that the truth of the conclusions of an article published in a scientific journal are not established just because the article has been subjected to peer review by other experts in the field. That point, however, has no relevance to the extraordinary scrutiny to which our paper was subjected. When our article was first submitted for publication in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), it had already undergone careful scrutiny by Professor Diaconis, as described above, and we had run a completely new experiment at his suggestion. Contrary to what Professor Simon alleges, we neither "refined" nor changed our analysis in any way from the first experiment to the second. We ran the new experiment without any changes in the method of measurement. This is fully confirmed by our correspondence with Professor Diaconis. (Even the fiercest opponents of the Torah Codes, psychologist Maya Bar Hillel and mathematicians Dr. Dror Bar-Natan and Dr. Brendan McKay [hereafter "McKay et al."] admit this.) To the surprise of Diaconis, the results of the second experiment were also highly significant. At the PNAS stage, our article was referred for peer review to six famous statisticians, including Professor Diaconis, each of them a member of the National Academy of Sciences. Because of the amazing claim made by our research, they checked the results very carefully. After receiving the second preprint, Professor Diaconis had a further request for us. He asked us to employ a new statistical test devised by him on the second list of rabbis to assess the likelihood of our findings appearing at random. He and the other referees were so confident that the new test would completely destroy our results that they required us to sign an agreement that even if the new experiment resulted in failure we would publish the results from the new experiment along with our previous results. Professor Diaconis and his colleagues were shocked when, employing his measures of statistical significance, we once again obtained highly significant results for the list. Despite having passed all hurdles set up by Professor Diaconis and the other peer reviewers, they ultimately recommended against publication of the results of our experiment in PNAS on the grounds that there was a "lack of public interest" in the phenomena described. Strangely, they only came to this conclusion after having made repeated demands upon us for years. Their conclusion of a lack of public interest is even more curious when one considers that Michael Drosnin's pseudo-scientific and sensationalist book on "Bible Codes" was an international publishing phenomenon this past year. After the rejection by PNAS, we submitted our article, with the results of the Diaconis experiment, for publication in Statistical Science, where it was subjected to further peer review. Only after nearly eight years from the time the paper was first sent to Professor Diaconis, during which time none of the eminent reviewers were able to find any error in the methodology or conclusions, was the article finally published. In his introduction to our article, Professor Kass, then editor of Statistical Science, wrote: “When the authors used a randomization process to see how rarely the patterns they found might arise by chance alone, they obtained a very highly significant result, with p=0.000016 [a probability of 1/62,500]. Our referees were baffled: their prior beliefs made them think the Book of Genesis could not possibly contain meaningful references to modern-day individuals, yet when the authors carried out additional analyses and checks the effect persisted. The paper is thus offered to Statistical Science readers as a challenging puzzle.” What I have described is hardly the normal process of peer review described by Professor Simon. In his concluding section, Professor Simon spells out his "strongest reason" for skepticism concerning the Torah Codes: the sensitivity of the experimental results in the "Famous Rabbis Experiment" to the specific appellations chosen for rabbinic figures whose dates of death and birth are being searched. Here he relies entirely on what he terms the "devastating analysis" of Drs. Dror Bar-Natan and Brendan McKay. In an article posted on the internet in late Elul entitled "Equidistant Letter Sequences in Tolstoy's War and Peace, "McKay et al. claim to have reproduced the same phenomenon described in our original paper in a Hebrew translation of War and Peace. Now obviously, they do not think that War and Peace is encoded. Their point is rather that our results do not show an intentional code in Bereishis either. Far from disproving the existence of the Torah Codes, however, the results of the War and Peace experiment ironically provide strong evidence of the rigidity of our experimental rules. Two points deserve to be highlighted about the McKay's results: (1) The alleged "success" in War and Peace was produced entirely by breaking the rules. Thus the results are completely lacking in significance; and (2) McKay and company did not demonstrate a single instance in which we deviated from our rules in carrying out the original research. It is agreed by both proponents and opponents of the Torah Codes that without preestablished rules, it is possible to create the appearance of "success" in any text. That is why the "success" of McKay et al., which was achieved solely by breaking our rules, is without significance. McKay and Bar-Natan admittedly manipulated the appellations used for the rabbis on the list. They prepared a list of appellations over many months, and went through a number of versions until they found one that worked -- the exact opposite of an a priori experiment. In defense of this procedure, however, they claim that they granted themselves no more leeway than we had in our choice of appellations or, alternatively, that they broke our rules no more frequently than we did. That claim is without foundation. Though McKay and Bar-Natan admit that before our experiment was run on the second list of rabbis that all the experimental rules were firmly in place,9 they insist, however, that the rules governing Professor Havlin's choice of the rabbis' appellations were sufficiently flexible to explain our striking results. On that basis, they proceed to erase many appellations from our list and to add many others. They have demonstrated no justifications for doing so. With respect to the names erased from the list, they have not shown a single instance in which Professor Havlin departed from his rules for compiling the lists of appellations. Of their additions, no more than five can arguably be said to be justified by Professor Havlin's rules. Two of these five do not appear as ELSs in Bereishis, and the inclusion of the other two would have improved our results by a factor of 1.5. Each of their other additions -- and remember it is these additions which account for the "success" in War and Peace - border on the absurd: eight are complete fabrications; another eight are not pronounced (e.g., Bi is not an appellation for the Bais Yosef);and three violate the spelling rules, etc. These deviations from our research protocols were neither slight, nor legitimate, nor within the rules established by Professor Havlin. The reader will no doubt wonder how McKay and Bar-Natan could have relied on a list of appellations so laughable to anyone with even a passing knowledge of gedolai Yisrael and Hebrew. The answer is that their list was not prepared by anyone with bibliographic expertise. Since the only flexibility by which McKay and Bar-Natan justify their many erasures and additions was in the choice of appellations, their claim boils down to the charge that there is something "fishy" about Professor Havlin's choice of appellations. (Let's make no bones about it, they accuse Professor Havlin of having conspired with us to compose a list of appellations that would achieve successful results.) I have suggested, through an intermediary, to the leading opponents of the Torah Codes that instead of engaging in the parody of producing blatantly counterfeit new "codes," that we should instead agree upon a mutually chosen bibliographic expert, provide him with Professor Havlin's rules of choice and have him independently prepare a new list of appellations for the second list of rabbis on the basis of Professor Havlin's rules. They have not picked up the gauntlet. They prefer instead to employ tactics more appropriate to warfare than scientific inquiry. In war, it is common for one side to attempt to undermine confidence in the other side's currency by circulating counterfeit currency. The ease with which the counterfeit code of McKay et al. is discerned, however, only serves to differentiate it from the Torah Codes and to buttress the veracity of the latter. McKay et al. also charge us with having made biased decisions in formulating the research protocol. But they have shown almost no such choices not dictated by the nature of the experiment. (The decision to use the correct dates of birth and death for the rabbis on the list is, for instance, obviously dictated by the nature of the inquiry.) At an academic conference last winter, Professor Maya Bar Hillel presented a list of 13 research decisions she claimed were biased in our favor. In a written response, Professor Robert Aumann, winner of the Israel Prize in mathematics and one of the world's leading mathematicians, stated that he found only one research choice that could be said to be "favorable" that was not clearly dictated by the nature of the research. On the other hand, he found several which had a negative impact on the results. Many of the "biased" decisions with which McKay et al. charge us, in fact, had the effect of reducing the statistical impact of our findings. For instance, they claim that we miscounted text lines in compiling our lists of rabbis from the Encyclopedia of the Great Men of Israel. But making the exclusions and inclusions in the list that they say should have been made, would have resulted in improving our best result for the second list from a random probability of four in a million to one in five million. Elsewhere McKay and his colleagues ask why we did not place the preposition "u" before both the day of the month and the month in our expression of the date of birth and death. Yet doing so would have only increased the statistical significance of the results for both the first and second list of rabbis. McKay cites 20 separate decisions in our method of measuring the proximity of ELSs to one another. Yet 11 out of those 20 decisions had a negative impact on our data, and had we changed just one of them we would have improved our results a thousandfold. Clearly, if we had prepared our research protocol after the fact, as McKay et al. charge, we did a very poor job of it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 13:35:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31181; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:35:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:35:19 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC0F7F.144BF54A@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:35:27 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: New Tesla? References: <1.5.4.32.19990314065944.00943634@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"coyG42.0.6d7.Jk2xs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9339 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Weapons Of Total Destruction By Dan Edan From Hilary A. Thomas 3-12-99 The US military was not the only investigator of "ionospheric heaters." The Russians conducted their own research with similar systems, based on Eastlund's technology. Other heaters also conducted research in Norway, Brazil and Puerto Rico. Russian "bigger is better" programs, however, beamed huge amounts of electromagnetic power at the ionosphere, successfully bouncing volleys of electromagnetic energy back to the Earth's surface. At these higher power levels, the heated ionosphere acted like a powerful battery, storing, amplifying and discharging destructive beams of energy that could devastate a distant target on demand, in seconds. At that time, the Russians (USSR) lacked the powerful computing facilities that were required to direct and control this energy beam. To be precise, calculations for bouncing these energy beams must take into account the rotation of the Earth, the angle of reflectance, and a variety of complex, dynamic factors. The US had the power of CRAY and EMASS computer systems, but lacked the power output capabilities of the Russian heaters. HAARP would change that. In 1995, the US military sought congressional funding for a "super-heater," a world class HAARP installation that would be capable of exceeding the Russian power outputs many times over. But there was a snag. The American public had been told that the Star Wars program was a "defensive" weapon. President Regan had even offered to share this technology with other countries to establish a "shield of peace" that would forever inhibit nuclear proliferation. But would the American public fund a "death ray" which could deliver "first strike" capabilities to any point on the globe within seconds? Even the military doubted that this would be an easy sale. At first, the military attempted to describe the HAARP as a substitute for the controversial ELF (low frequency) transmitters. Eastlund's research had demonstrated that the heated "lens" could generate and reflect ELF radio signals if the applied HF power source was pulsed. The large ELF antenna systems in Wisconsin and Michigan could be replaced by the smaller, more efficient HAARP arrays. Since their installation in America's dairyland, ELF signals were becoming a sensitive topic. Research was showing that ELF radiation was extremely harmful. Dr. Cletus Kanavy, chief of the biological effects group of the Phillips Laboratory's Electromagnetic Effects Division at Kirkland Air Force Base in New Mexico, stated that "the entire issue of human interaction with electromagnetic (RF & microwave) radiation is... a major national population health concern." (Biological Effects of Microwave Radiation: A White Paper, Microwave News at 12, September/October 1993). Dr. Kanavy noted the "large amount of data, both animal experimental and human clinical, to support the existence of chronic, non-thermal effects." These effects include behavioral aberrations, neural network perturbations, fetal (embryonic) tissue damage (inducing birth defects), cataractogenesis (cataracts), altered blood chemistry, metabolic changes and suppression of the endocrine and immune systems. There were also cases of sudden and unexplained mutations in frogs and wildlife in the radiation paths of ELF installations. It was only a matter of time before the public outcry would prohibit ELF transmitters. (see Superimposing Spatially Coherent Electromagnetic Noise Inhibits Field Induced Abnormalities In Chick Embryos, Journal Bioelectromagnetics, Vol. 15, No.2 at 105-113, 1994; Adey, Whispering Between Cells: Electromagnetic Fields And Regulatory Mechanisms In Tissue, Frontier Perspectives, Vol. 3, No. 2, Fall 1993; Smith, Best, Electromagnetic Man, Chapter 10, St. Martin's Press, N.Y. 1989; "Effects of Electromagnetic Fields" in Journal of Cellular Biochemistry, 51:140 at 410-411, 1993)) Someone in Congress realized the public safety implications of ELF waves-- even if they were to be generated by HAARP. The funding for HAARP was delayed while the Pentagon quickly assured the congressional committees that the ELF programs would be scuttled and replaced by HAARP's "high frequencies" which were, after all, "harmless." Congress thereby appropriated 16 million dollars for HAARP's initial expansion. But was the HAARP really doing away with ELF radiation? Not at all.(see 104th Congress, 1st session, Report 104-24 at 190, July 28, 1995) The military's own Executive Summary of the HAARP program clearly states their reliance on ELF waves. Instead of transmitting these waves from ground based transmitters, HAARP created these waves through the use of "pulse" transmissions of their HF energy beams. Or, to put it another way, HAARP duplicated the ELF signals by turning their signal on and off at rates (30 to 3000 cycles per second) within the ELF range. The result was that ELF radiation could be directed to a specific area on the surface of the planet, at will. "A number of critical Department of Defense communications systems rely on the use of ELF/VLF (30 Hz-30 kHz) radio waves. These include those associated with the Minimum Essential Emergency Communications Network (MEECN) and those used to disseminate messages to submerged submarines. In the latter, frequencies in the 70-150 Hz range are especially attractive, but difficult to generate efficiently with ground- based antenna systems." "The potential exists for generating such waves by ground-based heating of the ionosphere. The heater is used to modulate the conductivity of the lower ionosphere, which in turn modulates ionospheric currents. This modulated current, in effect, produces a virtual antenna in the ionosphere for the radiation of radio waves. The technique has already been used to generate ELF/VLF signals at a number of vertical HF heating facilities in the West and the Soviet Union. To date, however, these efforts have been confined to essentially basic research studies, and few attempts have been made to investigate ways to increase the efficiency of such ELF/VLF generation to make it attractive for communications applications. In this regard, heater generated ELF would be attractive if it could provide significantly stronger signals than those available from the Navy's existing antenna systems in Wisconsin and Michigan." "Recent theoretical research suggests that this may be possible, provided the appropriate HF heating facility was available. Because this area of research appears especially promising, and because of existing Department of Defense requirements for ELF and VLF, it is already a primary driver of the proposed research program." (Executive Summary, Section 2.2) All of these potentially harmful effects clearly violate the US government's own Environmental Protection Agency's doctrine. Congress established, through NEPA, that it is the policy of the federal government to "create and maintain conditions under which man and nature can exist in productive harmony." 42 U.S.C. Sec. 4331(a). To date, there have been eleven other patents derived from Eastlund's original work. These patents describe the reflective alterations of the ionosphere for such uses as "nuclear scale explosions without radiation," "power-beaming systems," "over-the-horizon radar systems," and "nuclear missile detection and destruction systems." Further, the patents are now owned by Raytheon, a long-standing defense contractor, and can now be combined with other military patents and used for battlefield applications. Eastlund's original research recognized the military uses for his discoveries. A review of his patent applications shows how this technology can be used: "...ability to put unprecedented amounts of power in Earth's atmosphere at strategic locations and to maintain the power injection level particularly if random pulsing is employed, in a manner far more precise and better controlled than heretofore accomplished by the prior art, particularly by detonation of nuclear devices of various yields at various altitudes..." "...It is possible not only to interfere with third party communications but to take advantage of one or more such beams to carry out a communications network even though the rest of the world's communications are disrupted. Put in another way, what is used to disrupt another's communications can be employed by one knowledgeable of this invention as a communication network at the same time..." "...large regions of the atmosphere could be lifted to an unexpectedly high altitude so that missiles encounter unexpected and unplanned drag forces with resultant destruction." Additional research indicates that funding was approved to develop a tomographic scanning apparatus back in 1996. This ability to penetrate deep within the Earth, to scan for caves, munitions storage and potential enemy shelters, is specifically outlined as part of the funding agreement. But the same wavelengths used in this tomographic scanning are powerful ELF radiation. And once located, strategic targets can be destroyed by changing the frequency and power of the directional beam. In short, the 104th Congress was duped into funding a "death ray." Recent (FY-1999) budget requests have included huge appropriations for the Navy, with emphasis on anti-missile technologies. The Navy is also developing high- altitude manned and unmanned vehicles at secret locations, such as those in Nevada. One such project is called "Aurora," suggesting a link to this new technology. It is our belief that this electromagnetic beam system is currently on-line. Perhaps we can justify this dangerous manipulation of nature by convincing ourselves that America is the only remaining super-power, with morality and capability to be Earth's police force. Certainly this kind of lethal power is better controlled by a democracy than, say, a terrorist regime like Libya, or an unstable government like Iraq. The potential for building a HAARP type of installation is well within the technology and budget of even the poorest country. It involves no nuclear fuel and can be constructed covertly. Computing power is now virtually unlimited. The country that has such a capability on-line first, and is able to detect and destroy other such devices, could maintain the balance of power and control of the globe. HAARP technology is presently under suspicion by a number of scientists around the world. The ionosphere has been described as a delicate "bubble" of charged particles that, much like the ozone layer, serves as a thin skin, protecting us against high energy particles that regularly stream towards Earth from the Sun. Even a temporary "hole" or rip in this ion field could result in the collision of these particles with our genetic and biologic molecules, causing mutations or death. Some scientists even worry that the ionosphere could collapse from electrical imbalance. They ask, "Can we really afford the risk of tampering with something that we do not yet fully understand, and which belongs to all life (not just human) on this planet?" HAARP has even been accused of environmental vandalism. The Earth has a solid metallic core and a rotating mass of electrical conducting, liquid rock called the mantle. This makes the Earth behave like a giant dynamo, with a strong magnetic field. Not every planet has this. The magnetic field, or magnetosphere, is important for the existence of life, as we know it. It effectively diverts the solar wind as it throws charged, high energy particles towards the Earth. These magnetic fields are furthest from the Earth at the equator and they actually meet the planet surface in the Arctic regions. The latter phenomenon is the reason for locating ionospheric "heaters" near the polar regions of Earth, where they are most accessible and vulnerable to unnatural influences. The solar wind is so powerful that it distorts the magnetosphere, causing the part facing the Sun to become compressed (left) and the side opposite to the Sun (right) to have a "tail," similar to the tail of comets. Together with the lower ionosphere, these charged atmospheres are essential for maintaining the radiation-free environment on our planet. Like the ozone layer, they are fragile but essential to life. The irresponsible damage to these ecosystems could turn HAARP into a weapon of total destruction. For more information on Solar Wind, and the dangers that these periodic disturbances cause to life on Earth, see "Storms on the Sun" in February's Viewzone. ViewZone contacted HAARP, through their web site, in the preparation of this story. At first, our inquiries were treated lightly. We were assured that HAARP was purely a research facility with no classified status. When we submitted some of the material referenced in this story, we were told that there was no basis to support such activity at HAARP's Gakona facility. We were reminded that HAARP has an open web site, with ample pictures and public disclosures. We were asked, "Would a classified military operation act this way?" A review of the Congressional appropriations indicates that the proposed HAARP facility was to be located in Alaska's Poker Flat rocket range (see Executive Summary parts 4.3 and 4.2.1) a flat, spacious and remote facility about 30 miles north of Fairbanks. The Executive Summary states any number of reasons why this tundra location is ideal. However, Gakona, the site depicted on HAARP's web site, is located 260 miles south of Poker Flats, in the rugged mountain country of the Alaska Range. Was there some mistake, or was the "public" HAARP program built in Gakona, while the classified projects were being constructed at Poker Flats, as planned? We put this question bluntly to HAARP. Rather than answer with their usual candor, we received the following reply: Viewzone: Can you comment on the wording of the appropriations statement that was submitted to the 104th Congress, as quoted in my e- mail? HAARP: "No I can't. As an editor, I'm sure you realize that NO government employee ever comments on other branches of the government. This is a long-standing protocol courtesy and it is not ever trifled with. It is unfortunate that there are people who will twist this policy into some conspiratorial motive." "As I have mentioned to you numerous times, this e-mail account is for the purpose of answering "technical" questions about the HAARP program. The anti-HAARP claims are easily refuted on a technical basis alone and I have given you the technical facts which do exactly that. The bottom line is that HAARP is technically capable of operating as an ionospheric observatory capable only, of conducting limited ionospheric studies which will yield enormous knowledge that will be useful in the design of reliable, high performance communication and navigation systems for the DoD as well as the private sector. It has about as much value as a weapon as the Keck Observatory in Hawaii or the Very Large Array in New Mexico." Best regards, [HAARP] Webmaster Viewzone also asked the inventor, Dr. Bernard Eastlund, about his technology. Dr. Eastlund informed us that the patents he transferred are capable of doing everything that he stated. We asked him to comment on the fact that his discoveries had been acquired for military, rather than humane use. Doctor Eastlund: "With some funding from the European Space Agency I have been able to address some of the issues you raised. In particular, I have continued to develop concepts that speak to the civilian (or humane) issues rather than the military. I have taken a hard look at the potential beneficial effects of the root technology and have developed a new concept for prevention of tornado formation in mesocylones based on heating cold downdrafts within the storm with microwave radiation from a satellite based source. The concept is called the Thunderstorm Solar Power Satellite. I presented a paper entitled, "Systems Considerations of Weather Modification Experiments Using High Power electromagnetic Radiation" at the "Workshop on Space Exploration and Resources Exploitation-Ex[plospace 20-22 October, 1998, Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy. The Systems Study indicates a possibility it might work, but raises issues of safety and the ability of diagnostics and numerical simulation capabilities to monitor and predict behavior of a storm. If successful, it might be possible to prevent the formation of destructive tornadoes. This could be a very positive outgrowth of my original work. Further extrapolations of the technology may also be useful in hurricane mitigation. Regarding safety. I believe it is the paramount issue. Unless these applications can be shown to be safe no experimentation should be initiated. My Company has adopted safety guidelines which include guidelines prepared by the NAS for global warming mitigation experiments and a few that were added to ensure that the systems are not used for military purposes. The guidelines are included in a paper I gave yesterday at a conference on '"The Applications of Remote Sensing and GIS for Disaster Management." held January 19-21, 1999 at the George Washington University. Copy attached. Note in the guidelines I have made a strong recommendation for international control. In the future, Dr. Eastlund's technologies will change our planet. Electrical energy will be available everywhere, without the need for transmission lines. Disasters from severe thunderstorms and tornadoes will be minimized, climates will be made milder, and food production will be enhanced by illuminated skies and ample rainfall. Global communication will be inexpensive. Critical ozone will be replenished. And, most importantly, nuclear weapons will have been made obsolete by the abilities to detect and destroy enemy installations. Terrorism will also be made much more difficult. In short, Eastlund's discoveries provide inexpensive energy and an end to draught and hunger-- the major causes of human violence. But these humane applications are still in the future. Eastlund's patents remain under the control of the military industrial complex. We are more likely to see an instantaneous "death ray," or mass "mind control" mechanisms, before Eastlund's discoveries make the planet a better place to live. "And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to Earth in full view of men." -Revelations 13:13 ______ Steve Wingate From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 14:09:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02413; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:09:08 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:09:08 -0800 (PST) From: "felis catus" To: Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:58:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01be6e5d$6a286a40$0100007f@cat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"UvyjF2.0.Rb._D3xs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9340 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Norm Biss To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 9:44 AM Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? >IMHO, the bird is a baby phoenix. When it sharpens it's beak, it creates a >tremendous amount of frictional heat, which causes it to immediately self- >immolate. Of course, since it is a Phoenix, it immediately rises from it's >own ashes. Only one bird involved. > >How's that for stretching the imagination? > >Regards, >Norm Biss > > > >"Joe Portman Sr." wrote: > >> I wonder if the bird ever made it to 1001 years old.......and also, how >> many birds have there been consecutively. >> Joe Portman >> ========= >> >> ---------- >> > From: Joe Portman Sr. >> > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? >> > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 10:10 PM >> > >> > Very good.!!!! >> > ============== >> > >> > ---------- >> > > From: Norm Biss >> > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? >> > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 8:17 PM >> > > >> > > Joe Portman Sr., wrote, that there was no real definition for the word >> > > "Eternity". I have to agree with him. However, there is one example >> > > by which we may be able to grasp the meaning of the word. >> > > >> > > Visualize, if you will: >> > > There is a mountain, which is a perfect cube. It is one mile on each >> > > side. This mountain is made out of pure Diamond. >> > > Once every thousand years, a tiny bird flies out to the mountain to >> > > sharpen it's beak. When the bird has finally worn away the mountain >> > > to nothing, that is the FIRST DAY of eternity. >> > > >> > > When viewed in this perspective, Eternity is a very long time, indeed. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > Norm Biss >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > "Joe Portman Sr." wrote: >> > > >> > > > Man did not invent the Trinity. It was made known to us by God. It is >> > too >> > > > complex for our finite brain and therefore we should not waste our >> time >> > > > trying to figure it out. If we get to heaven, maybe we'll find out. >> Man >> > has >> > > > invented terms like eternity and infinity, and cannot detail a >> > scientific >> > > > definition because even these lowly terms are too difficult for our >> > tiny >> > > > finite brain. It is therefore easier to be childlike and accept that >> > the >> > > > universe expands farther than we can count. Are we not in awe of the >> > > > universe ? If our little brain is awed by it, think how bored God >> must >> > be >> > > > with it. Maybe he has created a million other totally different >> systems >> > > > with different laws, just to amuse himself. Let us all hope that He >> > doesn't >> > > > get too bored too soon with this one and decide to erase it. Religion >> > is of >> > > > man and run by men. We know without being told that there is a God, >> all >> > we >> > > > have to do is think for a while, and we know it. It behooves us then >> to >> > > > think of Him each and every day. As for atheists, I heard a saying >> > > > once...."There are no atheists in a foxhole". >> > > > I also feel sorry for them, for in a bad pinch, they have no one >> to >> > > > call out to for help.---------- >> > > > Heck, I'm writing a book.....so I'll stop now....Joe Portman >> > > > .com> >> > > > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> > > > > Subject: Re: Free Energy Easy to find now? >> > > > > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 6:31 PM >> > > > > >> > > > > In the name of the anode, the cathode and the holy grid. >> > > > > >> > > > > K. >> > > > > >> > > > > (Apologies to Thomas Pynchon) >> > > > > >> > > > > At 08:03 AM 1/3/97 +1100, you wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >Don J. S. Adams wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> What if Drosnin what right? And Eli Rip the mathematician...? >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> I read something a while ago, I think it was in Drosnins 'Bible >> > Code'? >> > > > > >> Where supposedly the embedded answer of Einsteins missing >> Unified >> > > > > >> field theory pieces were stated, something to the effect that >> the >> > > > onlyt >> > > > > >> extra >> > > > > >> dimensions (described as 'depths') were ones of good and evil... >> > and >> > > > > >> then I >> > > > > >> started to wonder, what if.... according to some pundits of this >> > > > > >> mysterious embedded >> > > > > >> code, that all things that ever were are now or are yet to come >> > are >> > > > > >> encoded there in, >> > > > > >> every living beings personal history, etc... well then there >> > should be >> > > > > >> complete >> > > > > >> information on how to construct a free energy device! In fact >> any You described perfectly in your own words what was written already in the Vedas of India- the "causal Plane". felis catus. 3/14/99 >> > of >> > > > > >> those who claimed >> > > > > >> to have invented such devices but refused to say how or the info >> > > > > >> dissapeared... >> > > > > >> well could it be found here? >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> thoughts from an overtired ex-tax slave? >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Don >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Hello all. >> > > > > >I was thinking about some things in the bible that could be >> related >> > to >> > > > real >> > > > > >facts ;), and I was wondering if there may be a correlation >> between >> > the >> > > > > >Holy Trinity (father, son and the holy ghost) and magnetism, >> > electricity >> > > > > >and gravity? If there are any religious people out there with a >> copy >> > of >> > > > the >> > > > > >bible, they may want to see what it says about the holy trinity >> and >> > > > their >> > > > > >relationships. >> > > > > > >> > > > > >Any thoughts? >> > > > > > >> > > > > >Cam >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 15:34:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12913; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:34:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:34:27 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC47D4.A5B46B4C@erie.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:35:48 -0500 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Joe Newman's Motor Losses Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CEA5913B159C1930AD93381D" Resent-Message-ID: <"cVu2f.0.g93.3U4xs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9341 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CEA5913B159C1930AD93381D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit file:///C|/My Documents/Joe Newman's Motor Losses.html --------------CEA5913B159C1930AD93381D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="Joe Newman's Motor Losses.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Joe Newman's Motor Losses.html" Joe Newman's Motor Losses HOW TO DECIDE FOR YOURSELF IF JOE NEWMAN's MOTOR IS "AS ADVERTISED"


I am going to attempt to explain in layman's terminology why, IN MY OPINION, Joe Newman
does NOT have an Over-Unity Device, nor is he creating Free-Energy.

Neither Joe Newman, or Evan Soule' have claimed the Energy Machine  to be an OU, or FE
Device.  They also have never claimed it to be a Perpetual Motion Machine.  What they are
saying is that it puts out 346% "Production Efficiency", over the input power.  Nevertheless,
.........a rose is a rose, is a rose.

First of all, let me establish my credentials:  I am NOT an Electrical Engineer.  I have an Associates
Degree in Avionics/Aircraft Electrical Systems.  I am 60 years old, with the last 25 years in the
Electric Motor Repair and Manufacturing field.  While not an Engineer, I do have all the handbooks
for Electrical, Mechanical and Machine Shop practices.  I use the manuals to find information as
it pertains to my particular field, and for the formulas necessary to accomplish my work.  I am
also the Quality Control Inspector for the Facility at which I am employed.  I was previously
employed by the Department of Defense (GS-11), and by United Air Lines.  I feel that I am
qualified to make the following observations based on my experience and background.

To determine the EFFICIENCY  (n), of any Electric Motor, there is only one formula:

n = Input Electric Power MINUS LOSSES / (Divided by) Input power X 100%

If, for example, you had an Electric Motor with zero losses, the efficiency (n) would be 100%.
This, however, is impossible because ALL Electric Motors have losses!  What are these
losses, and what is the definition of them?

Power losses in DC motors are due to:  Bearing Friction, Brush Friction, Windage, Eddy
Currents and Hysteresis in the Armature core, Brush Contact-Drop, I squared R losses in the
Armature winding, and Stray Load Losses.

D E F I N E D

Bearing Friction and Brush Friction Losses are proportional to the speed (RPM) of the motor.

Windage Loss is proportional to the square of the speed of the motor

Eddy-current Loss in the armature teeth and in the armature core is proportional to the square
of the speed AND to the square of the air-gap Flux Density.

Hysteresis loss in the armature teeth and core is proportional to the speed, and to the square of
the flux density in the air-gap

Brush Contact-Drop is typically one volt per brush arm for Carbon-Graphite brushes, and
0.25 volts for metal-graphite.

I squared R losses is the current squared times the resistance of the armature winding.  This
loss takes the form of heat which is generated by the current "pushing" thru the resistance of
the copper wire in the armature winding.

Stray Load Losses are due to eddy-currents in the armature conductors, Brush short-circuit
losses in the commutator, and additional core loss arising from distortion of the magnetic
field due to armature REACTION.  This distortion occurs when the flux density is increased
at the pole tips 180 degrees apart, and the flux density is decreased at the opposing pole tips,
180 degrees apart.  (This is for a 2 pole motor)

TYPICAL VALUES OF TOTAL LOSSES IN INDUSTRIAL MOTORS ARE 4% TO 10% OF THE OUTPUT! !

There is no way to overcome these losses.  That is why it is impossible to get any electric motor
to generate more output than the amount of energy input.

I did not address the additional loss which will occur under load.  This loss is due to the coupling
of the motor to a load.  A pulley, lovejoy coupling or gear, is going to provide some additional
loss, but it will be minimal IF everything is properly aligned and balanced.  (There is very little
difference between no-load, and full-load RPM on a DC motor)

It would be interesting to see how Joe Newman arrived at his figure of 346% "Production
Efficiency".  He addressed the I squared R losses, but ignored the other losses.  I must
question  the manner in which he arrived at the I squared R losses.   I feel that he is doing
the mathematics wrong.

Another point which I have a problem with, is the fact that "An Electrical Engineer
could not stop the shaft from rotating, with his hands."  Is this Scientific validation
for the claims of a great new Invention?  Of course it isn't!  I cannot stop my 1/4 HP
electric drill from rotating, but that doesn't mean that it is an over-unity device.

I also have a problem with the fact that Newman will not let an independent testing
laboratory, run a battery of tests on his machine.  Why? ?  Do we just accept his
mathematical calculations as being correct?  Now, ask yourself this question:
If it was your motor, and you had all the proof that it worked, wouldn't you want to
get it authenticated as soon as possible?  I personally would want two, or three
independent verifications of my motor's capabilities in order to raise the Capital needed
to go into production.

I will make the prediction now, that there will NOT be any motors in production
for delivery by June, but instead an excuse for reasons why it is not available.

He will set the next release date for September, with another delay after that.  How
do I know this?  Because that has been his pattern for at least the last 10 years.  I
can see nothing different happening.

Finally, I would like to touch, one more time, on the magnets being used inside this
motor.  The ones in the Prototype are Neodymium.  They are quite powerful (About
12,200 gauss)  IF, he replaces them with ceramic magnets in the production models,
they will be, at maximum, 4,100 gauss.  The Neodymium magnets cost  $81.00 EACH,
and the Ceramic magnets cost  $15.00 EACH.  The motor requires 64 magnets.  I'll
let you do the mathematics.

There is no way that Joe Newman can build this motor with Neodymium magnets, and
still sell it for  $7,000.00 !    That means that he will be replacing them with magnets which
are only 1/3 as powerful.  This is known as "Bait and Switch", and is highly illegal.

If I were going to be interested in buying one of these machines, I would be asking some
serious questions along these lines.

Thank You.

Regards,
Norm Biss
Erie, Pa.
3-14-99
 
  --------------CEA5913B159C1930AD93381D-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 16:25:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28693; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:24:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:24:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199903150024.SAA07793@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Joe Newman's Motor Losses Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:20:00 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zkup23.0.807.OD5xs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9342 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Boy, if I had an engine like that, I'd be using it to power my car around.......duh.......Joe Portman ======================== ---------- > From: Norm Biss > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Joe Newman's Motor Losses > Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 5:35 PM > file:///C|/My Documents/Joe Newman's Motor Losses.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 16:33:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32192; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:32:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:32:58 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990315003928.0094c080@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:39:28 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Climate/Pole Shift assumption? Resent-Message-ID: <"ZjxjU1.0.us7.wK5xs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9343 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear President Clinton; It is reasonable to recognize the possibility that the climate and/or pole axis of the Earth may shift abruptly due to upcoming conditions in our solar system. Analysis of the said conditions by Albert Einstein acknowledges the pole shift possibility. The PBS NOVA show "Warnings From The Ice" indicated evidence that there may be a average global temperature where, when exceeded, triggers a restablization of the climate to a vastly different level. In the interest of preparedness we must encourage indoor agricultural facilities for average homeowners. Energy technology that would transform power from ambient conditions are known as free energy or zero point energy generators. Survival may necessitate the ability of the individual to independantly generate power. Possible upcoming severe global events defines the need for a 10KW zero point home energy generator system in the interest of preserving our national security. Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 17:50:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA20625; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:50:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:50:24 -0800 From: "felis catus" To: Subject: Re: Climate/Pole Shift assumption? Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:51:27 -0500 Message-ID: <01be6e86$570d1220$0100007f@cat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"CKMak1.0.525.VT6xs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9344 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is this "crazy, disconnected nonsense"? Geoffrey W. Tilga 4/14/99 -----Original Message----- From: Dennis C. Lee To: Recipient list suppressed Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 7:37 PM Subject: Climate/Pole Shift assumption? >Dear President Clinton; > > >It is reasonable to recognize the possibility that the climate and/or pole >axis of the Earth may shift abruptly due to upcoming conditions in our solar >system. Analysis of the said conditions by Albert Einstein acknowledges the >pole shift possibility. The PBS NOVA show "Warnings From The Ice" indicated >evidence that there may be a average global temperature where, when >exceeded, triggers a restablization of the climate to a vastly different >level. In the interest of preparedness we must encourage indoor agricultural >facilities for average homeowners. Energy technology that would transform >power from ambient conditions are known as free energy or zero point energy >generators. Survival may necessitate the ability of the individual to >independantly generate power. Possible upcoming severe global events defines >the need for a 10KW zero point home energy generator system in the interest >of preserving our national security. > >Regards; >Dennis > > >________________________________________________________________ > >Starfire >http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html > >Unified Field Art >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG > >Tall Ships >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > >Concentric Tori >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG > >Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! >http://www.artbellchatclub.com >________________________________________ > >When I am working on a problem, >I never think about beauty. >I only think of how to solve the problem. >But when I have finished, >if the solution is not beautiful, >I know it is wrong. > >-R. Buckminster Fuller- >________________________________________ > >'G' defines 'objective art': > >"In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in >it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows >and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one >impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of >course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical >certainty, produce one and the same impression. > >"At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on >people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive >from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. > >- p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - >___________________________________________________________________________ ___ > >"Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the >term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral >and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the >ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in >the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or >unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having >in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the >natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to >to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot >perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower >tones; and must be part of an organized whole." > >- p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - >___________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > > The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect >our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men >trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the >powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every >individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come >under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, >whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the >person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this >manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. > Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since >he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone >else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be >introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will >accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend >that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to >state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the >author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great >mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man >sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". >It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once >was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's >inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big >trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). >The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of >the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the >patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the >run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. > A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely >to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the >author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in >which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. >As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their >scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a >direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA >at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One >evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the >fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be >monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call >headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began >sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. >This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by >CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. >Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. > >quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 19:06:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23763; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:06:11 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:06:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990315031130.0095387c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:11:30 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Climate/Pole Shift assumption? Resent-Message-ID: <"RWkZF2.0.Cp5.Va7xs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9345 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:51 PM 3/14/99 -0500, you wrote: >Is this "crazy, disconnected nonsense"? (snip) >>It is reasonable to recognize the possibility that the climate and/or pole >>axis of the Earth may shift abruptly due to upcoming conditions in our >>solar system. Openning statement, reasons for validation of statement to follow. >>Analysis of the said conditions by Albert Einstein acknowledges the >>pole shift possibility. Summary of p.311 of "5/5/2000". >>The PBS NOVA show "Warnings From The Ice" indicated >>evidence that there may be a average global temperature where, when >>exceeded, triggers a restablization of the climate to a vastly different >>level. Summary at end of show. >>In the interest of preparedness we must encourage indoor agricultural >>facilities for average homeowners. If climate shifts level, enclosed environment may be necessary for proper growing conditions. >>Energy technology that would transform >>power from ambient conditions are known as free energy or zero point energy >>generators. Survival may necessitate the ability of the individual to >>independantly generate power. Possible upcoming severe global events >>defines the need for a 10KW zero point home energy generator system in the >>interest of preserving our national security. A powerplant that doesn't need fuel will be optimal for extreme conditions. What is not clear? What is plan A for such events at present? Sorry for trying to get everyone well prepared. This would also give more peace of mind. Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 22:03:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21239; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:03:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:03:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36EC86AB.BB07F98@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:03:55 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Climate/Pole Shift assumption? References: <1.5.4.32.19990315003928.0094c080@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sVtX_.0.mB5.pAAxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9346 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dennis, if you ever find one let me know! ;) and btw, that conference you sent me the link on looks every bit as good as the exotic research one, in fact I'd say even better, althoI wish James Bare was attending... then it'd be altogether perfect for me. thanks for the heads up! Did you post this URL on the list? I bet the others would love to know about it also! Weird tho... is this conference sponsored by the US govt? I saw the following on their site? U.S. Dept. of State Washington, D.C., USA April 29-30, 1999 Hosted by the Secretary of State Open Forum Dennis C. Lee wrote: > > Dear President Clinton; > > It is reasonable to recognize the possibility that the climate and/or pole > axis of the Earth may shift abruptly due to upcoming conditions in our solar > system. Analysis of the said conditions by Albert Einstein acknowledges the > pole shift possibility. The PBS NOVA show "Warnings From The Ice" indicated > evidence that there may be a average global temperature where, when > exceeded, triggers a restablization of the climate to a vastly different > level. In the interest of preparedness we must encourage indoor agricultural > facilities for average homeowners. Energy technology that would transform > power from ambient conditions are known as free energy or zero point energy > generators. Survival may necessitate the ability of the individual to > independantly generate power. Possible upcoming severe global events defines > the need for a 10KW zero point home energy generator system in the interest > of preserving our national security. > > Regards; > Dennis > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Starfire > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html > > Unified Field Art > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG > > Tall Ships > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > Concentric Tori > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG > > Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! > http://www.artbellchatclub.com > ________________________________________ > > When I am working on a problem, > I never think about beauty. > I only think of how to solve the problem. > But when I have finished, > if the solution is not beautiful, > I know it is wrong. > > -R. Buckminster Fuller- > ________________________________________ > > 'G' defines 'objective art': > > "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in > it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows > and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one > impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of > course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical > certainty, produce one and the same impression. > > "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on > people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive > from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. > > - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the > term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral > and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the > ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in > the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or > unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having > in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the > natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to > to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot > perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower > tones; and must be part of an organized whole." > > - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect > our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men > trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the > powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every > individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come > under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, > whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the > person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this > manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. > Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since > he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone > else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be > introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will > accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend > that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to > state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the > author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great > mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man > sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". > It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once > was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's > inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big > trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). > The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of > the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the > patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the > run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. > A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely > to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the > author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in > which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. > As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their > scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a > direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA > at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One > evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the > fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be > monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call > headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began > sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. > This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by > CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. > Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. > > quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) > _______________________________________________________________________________ -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 14 22:34:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12650; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:33:55 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:33:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990315063940.00976ae4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:39:40 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Free Energy Conference - US Dept. of Commerce Sponsored Resent-Message-ID: <"1scnz3.0.Y53.GdAxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9347 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.erols.com/iri/speakerlist.html Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 05:58:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01184; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 05:58:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 05:58:18 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:58:05 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: "Dennis C. Lee" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: sustainable housing/greenhousing/ZP co-generators for Climate Change In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990315031130.0095387c@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tVDGX3.0.KI.v7Hxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9348 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dennis: You may be pleased to know that every housing project that I have designed since 1976 has been based on sustainable principles to address climate change. We use the assets of global warming (the GreenHouse Effect) to reduced Climate Change through the incorporation in every project of a solarium, greenhouse, atrium or conservatory, not only as the major solar collector, but also to produce food, filter greywater (in some cases), generate negative ions and oxygen, absorb C02, produce humidity in arid climates and remove toxins in air. In our self-sufficient Eco-Village design, greenhouses will be integrated into all housing (I hope) for many purposes. Which ZPE co-generator should we use, with construction starting in June 2000? ***************************************************************************** Jorg-Dietram Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), - in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), environmental/architectural design, ecological planning, consulting on sustainable buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, workshops. - 3 residential demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors - college campus and office tower recofit under construction - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671 Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm e-mail: ######################################################### From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 06:41:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12593; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:41:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:41:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:40:11 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: "Don J. S. Adams" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: rife/bare for water treatment In-Reply-To: <36EC0F65.E7FECD7@telusplanet.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wVNeK3.0.e43.LmHxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9349 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don: Further to your encouraging note of below, do you or anyone know what companies or sources had water treatment equipment using the above technology? Thanks for your help. Jorg Ostrowski __________________________________________________________________________ On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Don J. S. Adams wrote: > > yup, this is done... in fact I recall hearing quite a while ago that > there is actually commercial / industrial applications of this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote: > > > > Richard, Dennis, David and others: Could we use the Rife technlogy to kill > > pathogens, viruses, parasites and bacteria in drinking/grey/reuse > > water? Has anyone in the real world done this? If so we would like to > > try building one and perform tests. We are familiar with Dr. > > Hulda Clark's Zapper, the work of Dr. Bob Beck and the Electrifier of > > Thomas Miller. Advice and suggestions welcomed. Jorg Ostrowski > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Richard Austin wrote: > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Dennis Garrett > > > > > > > >>RE: RIFE > > > >>anybody have any experience with building one of these units? > > > >>i want to get the book and try it, but i want to know some competent > > > >>advice is available when (not if, when) i need it. > > > >>thanks in advance, Dennis > > > > > >I made a RIFE unit using an audio amp, PC sound card and Sound Forge > > > >software. > > > >Connect the output of the PC sound card to the input of the audio amp. > > > >Connect the speaker cable from the audio amp to your electrodes. Synthesise > > > >frequencies using Sound Forge, guided by the many frequency tables that are > > > >on the web. > > > > > > > >Sound Forge can be obtained by doing a web search for 'Sound Forge' > > > > > > > >? Or is RIFE the one with the tube ? > > > > > > > >Best regards > > > > > > > >David Callaghan > > > > > > The Rife one is with the tube. I have seen the Bare unit destroy protozoa right before my eye (using his dark field microscope). Apparently frequencies under about 20 Hz destroys most pathogens whereas the Rife frequencies are resonant to particular organisms. Hulda Clark in her book, The Cure for All Diseases gives specific frequencies for various pathogens. Probably a list is on the net somewhere. > > > > > > > > > Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU > > > Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The universe is full of magical things, > patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. > -- Eden Phillpotts > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Don J. S. Adams > Managing Consultant > RAVE Communications > > 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA > 780-998-4066 Canada > > http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave > > alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 07:33:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27239; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:32:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:32:47 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:32:02 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: Lee Markland Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GEET In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981008011206.00a2d6c0@rockisland.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cbDfE2.0.Vf6.UWIxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9350 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mark: Have you or ANYONE had success contacting Paul by e-mail? I have not. Has anyone tried running his generator on 100% water? Does he have an agreement with the oil companies not to promote this? If his technology did not rely on fossil fuels, then I think it has promise. _________________________________________________________________________ You said:"I think I will EMail Paul, in fact I will, but still would appreciate your comments." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 07:57:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA18887; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:56:38 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:56:38 -0800 (PST) From: Runozwritu@aol.com Message-ID: <42db0570.36ed2bca@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:48:26 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Bare/Rife device Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 11 Resent-Message-ID: <"qoknu.0._c4.qsIxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Having researched the Bare/Rife device and others, may I suggest that you go to, ? I have read Dr. Bare's book, viewed his video tape, and monitored the Rife discussion list for some time. More importantly, I have seen firsthand that the B/Rife device does produce bioenergetic effects. That is why I will be assembling one within a month. Sincerely, Runozwritu From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 10:09:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA17794; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:09:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:09:10 -0800 Message-ID: <36ED30C2.C83480@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:09:38 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bare/Rife device References: <42db0570.36ed2bca@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v26dB3.0.OL4.3pKxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yup thats a great site! I got the book / video also... an amazing deal for the price....in fact I'd say that its literally one of the best returns on my money I've ever had in my entire life! Runozwritu@aol.com wrote: > > Hello, > Having researched the Bare/Rife device and others, may I suggest that you go > to, ? I have read Dr. Bare's book, viewed his video > tape, and monitored the Rife discussion list for some time. More importantly, > I have seen firsthand that the B/Rife device does produce bioenergetic > effects. That is why I will be assembling one within a month. > > Sincerely, > Runozwritu -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 10:15:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20847; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:15:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:15:37 -0800 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <33b44b33.36ed4bc6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:04:54 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: (For your info.) New fuel cell Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"v40-7.0.c55.9vKxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ODESSA - Call it voodoo. Call it black magic. Call it whatever you like; the visionaries at Dais Corp. call it the future. Imagine a "battery" that you never had to replace. An emissions-free power source that could run your lawn mower, camping gear, even your car - for 5,000 hours. Now stop imagining; the technology exists. "It's magic that's very close to being commercialized," says Tim Tangredi, president and chief executive officer of Dais Corp. The Odessa-based company of 11 employees has started producing and marketing fuel cells they say will change the way people live. Dais, which hopes to grow to about 50 employees by year's end, manufactures the cells from a makeshift laboratory in its facility located on appropriately named Destiny Way. There, chemists clad in white lab coats painstakingly spread the company's patented solution, Dais 585, into a thin film that is then laminated. The resulting membrane is sandwiched between two electrodes, then set flush with other sandwiches to form a stack. Voltage and current are controlled by varying the size of individual cells or the number stacked together. Though the technological specifics can be complicated, how the stacks work is simple, they say. Oxygen travels across each cell's platinum-laced membrane and chemically reacts with hydrogen being pumped inside the cell. The result is electricity, water, a little heat - and a lot of excitement. "The technology itself, I think, is a gold mine," said Tom Gola, who recruits new industry for the Pasco Economic Development Council, the county's primary industrial recruiting and retention group. "Can you imagine never having to pay an electricity bill again? Running everything on hydrogen?" Consumers likely will get their first crack in specialty markets or high-end products, such as yachts, recreational vehicles or custom homes, said Glenn Doell, Dais' vice president of marketing and business development. Rural areas not on the local electricity grid also could be fuel-cell candidates. As the technology becomes more commonplace - and less expensive - it will find its way into smaller items such as portable generators and lawn and camping equipment. "I think you'll see fuel cells at the consumer level within the next two years," said Tangredi, who likens the product's predicted path to that of propane gas. It is not the main fuel source out there, but its popularity is growing. Still, fuel-cell-powered cars likely won't show up for at least five years because of the money and time needed to develop something commercially viable, Doell said. Gola first heard about Dais in September 1996, when it was looking for a new home. The company was born and gestated in the business incubator program at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, a 175-year-old engineering technology school in New York. Last fall, it moved its headquarters to the West Pasco Industrial Park, with the help of a $250,000 low-interest federal economic development loan. Gola, who worked with Dais in securing the loan, sees endless possibilities for a product that is clean (no toxic emissions), quiet (no moving parts) and creates no disposal dilemma (unlike batteries). The potential for growth also seems to have few limits, with the market for fuel cells and related materials estimated to reach $12 billion within five years. "All over the place you hear about alternative fuels, and these guys have a niche on it, a very good niche," Gola said. Besides those interested in environmentally friendly energy generation, Dais' diverse market could range from coatings for medical implants to applications in desalination. With desal, an area Doell said they've just started exploring, the material can be used in a way that essentially allows the water to pass through while keeping back impurities. Doell said Dais is collaborating with Saint Leo College on local efforts to bring a regional desalination plant to west Pasco - though some Pasco County officials and environmental activists would prefer the plant be on Tampa Bay. They fear salty water discharged from a desalination plant could hurt sea life just off Pasco's shore. While fuel cell technology has been around since 1839, it has never been made affordable enough for the general public. Modern-day efforts to bring the cost down include ventures by General Electric, DuPont, NASA, Mobil and Shell Oil. "We feel we have something that's ahead of the rest of the technology," Tangredi said. Hence the name Dais: a Greek word meaning "head" or "front of." The magic is in the membrane - and the ordinary ingredients used in making the fuel cell sandwiches: stainless steel and the rubber used in sneaker soles. "The whole premise behind Dais was to come up with less expensive raw materials to allow fuel cell technology to become commonplace," Tangredi said. "Stainless steel and rubber are materials that are in products that every person owns, and that's where it has to go for the technology to be viable." Inexpensive materials will allow them to compete with existing energy sources, though Tangredi said the Florida market will likely be harder to break in to because electricity rates are more competitive here. The company, currently housed in a 2,800-square-foot space in the industrial park, has plans to develop along with the emerging fuel cell market. Part of the $250,000 from the county is earmarked for expanding that facility and outfitting it to produce the materials Dais must now have made by other companies. The company also plans to grow its 11-person staff to 48 employees by the end of the year. That number is expected to nearly double by the end of 2000, Tangredi said. Thus far, there has been substantial interest from those in the field. "Because the technology is new and a lot of people are attracted to it, we get resumes e-mailed to us three or four times a week," said Scott G. Ehrenberg, vice president of engineering and technology for Dais. Ehrenberg, formerly of IBM, has been with Dais since its inception in 1993. Tangredi credits him with having the vision to get the technology off the ground. Currently, Dais holds three patents; three others are pending, among those pending is one for a compound that would produce hydrogen when combined with water. That effort is being helped along by Massachusetts-based Smith & Wesson Corp., which recently signed a contract with Dais to jointly develop the "hydrogen on demand" product. To date, Dais has sold more than 200 prototype stacks worldwide - to national labs, universities and Fortune 50 companies. And Dais also has some high-profile backers, with funding by the federal energy office, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, the state of New York, Wright Malta (a small, defense-related contractor) as well as private investors. "We're very fortunate to have that kind of support for such a little company," Tangredi said.(CHART) About DaisTo learn more about Dais Corp., call (727) 375-8484 or visit Dais' Web site at http://dias.net. PHOTO (2C) CHART; Caption: (C) Joe Serpico, a senior scientist at Dais Corp., works with a test device in the manufacturing process for fuel cell stacks, just one of the firm's innovations. BOB WESTENHOUSER/Tribune photo; (C) Scott Ehrenberg hooks a connector to a fuel cell at Dais Corp., where he is a vice president. The corporation has 11 employees. BOB WESTENHOUSER/Tribune photo ... http://www.tampatrib.com/ feedback@tboweb.com The Tampa Tribune --- ____ {Statements may not be my Employer's} __/o|__\~ EVangel: messenger bringing good news =)---'@ -----@' 'Electric cruis'n the Santa Clara Valley' 132V S-10 Blazer http://members.aol.com/brucedp/ BruceDP@iname.com Electric Vehicle List Editor http://crest.org/ev-list-archive/ EAA San Jose EVents Officer http://members.aol.com/sjeaa/ Renewable Energy News contributing Editor EV & AE List sysop % Use Renewable Energy to charge your EV % From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 11:34:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18338; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:34:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:34:06 -0800 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:53:16 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:56:54 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:36:49 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: GEET/Tesla Turbine In-reply-to: To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" , freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:53:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1964ZXVHGZCA4 X400-MTS-identifier: [;61351151309991/3594219@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"16JsL3.0.NU4.j2Mxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jorg, David has a web page at "http://www.voyager.co.nz/~djyoung/index.html" He discusses the fuel preheat process in the April'98 page link. He can be reached at "djyoung@voyager.co.nz". Technically to be a Tesla Turbine, you would need to use disk spacers, which David doesn't use. But otherwise it is an interesting project. I haven't had any luck getting ahold of the GEET people via e-mail. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >Bill: Do you have an e-mail address for David Young? Thanks for >considering my request. Jorg Ostrowski __________________________________________________________________________ >>TEBA member David Young continues his story detailing his experiences with a >>propane powered bladeless gas turbine. He has constructed a bladeless blower >>toward experimentation with a totally bladeless device. >> >>He improved his combustion chamber efficiency significantly by using the >>GEET type effect. He looped the sealed fuel line through the combustion >>chamber prior to the normal fuel inlet ports. He got a significant >>increase in heat for the same amount of propane. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 15:08:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02134; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:07:33 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:07:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:08:40 +0100 Message-Id: <199903152308.AAA18491@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Newman motor analysis, telephone call with Mr. Biss today Cc: normpems@erie.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id PAA01943 Resent-Message-ID: <"pKZ-53.0.FX.lAPxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Open Letter to Mr. Norman Biss and the Newman- and freenrg-l list ================================================================= Hi All, I spoke today with Mr. Biss on the phone and enjoyed an interesting discussion about the Newman motor he built together with Mr. Newman. To recapture: Mr. Biss was the man, who was advised by his motor company to help Joe Newman to construct the new Newman "production model" motor until there was a dispute with the company and Newman "grabbed" "his motor" (the company claims it is their motor by now..) in a "Nacht- und Nebelaktion" ("night- and fog- moveaction" :), as we say in German language ) and left the motor company. I donīt want to go into the details about this, but just want to analyse the new motor datas... ---------- > From : Norm Biss > to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Objet : Re: Joe Newman's new motor data analysis > Date : 11 mars, 1999 22:28 > > To all list members: -snip-- > (A 2KW Generator requires 4HP to drive > it). Both > of these Generators MUST turn at 3600 RPM. If Joe Newman > expects > 60 volts of dry-cell batteries to accomplish this, it will > not work. He explains how he gets 40 RPM with 60 volts. > He will need NINETY times > that number of batteries to reach 3600 RPM! Okay, let us do some math: If it needs 0.6 Watts at 60 Volt supply to turn at 40 RPM, at 5400 Volts supply voltge (90 times the input voltage of 60 Volts) the motor will consume to overcome internal friction: 54 Watts. This is concluded from my experiments from 10 years ago and finding, that with the linearly rising input voltage, the input Wattage also linearly rises ! Have a look at the diagrams of my university study work from the past: http://www.overunity.com/nnew/newman4.htm This is according to normal DC motor theory ! So at 5400 Volts the input power to overcome just the friction and losses will be about 54 Watts, if airflow friction still could be neglected. This is not the power required to turn a 10 KWatts producing AC generator ! Now Mr. Biss came up with a formular, why the motor could not go overunity. He spoke about i^2 x R losses.... This is just only true in normal motor designs he was used to work with. In Newman motors we have to use different efficiency measurements due to the technical implementation of the motor: Please study this: Naudinīs mechanical output test confirms mechanical overunity ! =============================================================== http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/nwmechts.htm You see, that the electrical input power into the motor was measured and compared to the mechanical output of the motor. Here Naudin came to the conclusion, that the mechanical output was bigger than the electrical input and indeed overunity, a fact that Mr. Biss did not include in his summaries or did not know until now. Naudin used his new sampling scope with power measuring possibilities, but I rather trust multiplying a DC input current with a constant DC input voltage ! So a better DC input power testcircuit would be this: http://www.overunity.com/newman2/7thtest.gif I would very much like to see Naudin repeat doing the electrical input measurements with this test circuit to verify his claims. Anyway here are a few other infos about the new Newman motor: It is just again a 2 pole motor, so the magnets inside the stator are just having 1 North pole and 1 South pole... (not very efficient ! wasting too many magnets, 4 or 6 poles would be much better) The rotor has 8 partitional coils which are probably energized all at the same time via the commutator or just 2 coils at a time. This Mr. Biss did not yet reveal or I did not understand it properly.. Mr. Biss said he will have finished in about 2 weeks time, if he has got enough free time to work on it, the second model of the Newman prototype and will also post infos and pictures about it as he progresses. The coil DC resistance of the new "rewired" motor seems to be 60 Ohms, before at Mr. Bissīs place it was 46 Ohm, so maybe Newman used now smaller diameter gauge wire. The maximal KGs of copper inside the rotor is about 20 to 30 KG copper wire. The whole rotor with the iron is about 70 KG. To study the later findings with are more related to the Correa and Chernetski work about arc discharges study: http://www.overunity.com/newman2/ Now we still wait for the Newman company to release a data sheet on the new motor, before Mr. Biss is releasing efficiency infos on his second model. Joe Newman has claimed over 300 % mechanical efficiency so far, maybe he will soon reveal test measurements in his upcoming motor datasheet. > Next, we come to a really "Sticky" problem: The motor is > NOT approved by > UL (In Canada, CSA). I have checked with Three different > Insurance Carriers, > and they informed me that even though the Generator itself > is UL approved, if > the motor is not UL approved, it COULD cause your Homeowners > Policy to > be Invalidated. In any event, NO Insurance company would > pay-off for any > damage to your property caused by a non-UL-approved device. > > To get UL approval, an Electric Motor must be submitted to > UL for testing. > This requires months of testing, under all conditions, in > order for UL to > certify that the motor functions as advertised, and under > all conditions of > weather, temperature, humidity, etc. This can take anywhere > from 3 to 9 > months. It would be interesting to see if this motor has > been so certified. Yes, I doubt that the motor will already ship in June, cause it will have by then probably no official electrical power agency UL test aproval, which is needed for a home power generator. So far the summary for today. Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 15:33:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA26132; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:32:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:32:49 -0800 From: pop79@altavista.net Message-Id: <199903152332.JAA02045@lebunka.ion.com.au> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:26:05 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: (For your info.) New fuel cell Priority: normal In-reply-to: <33b44b33.36ed4bc6@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Resent-Message-ID: <"8yh2A1.0.CO6.WYPxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you arent interested in the 'Direct Internet Access Service' try this link instead: http://dais.net :) > Tangredi said.(CHART) About DaisTo learn more about Dais Corp., call > (727) 375-8484 or visit Dais' Web site at http://dias.net. From, Paul (Quantum Business Systems) www.quantumsystems.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 15 15:58:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08666; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:58:04 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:58:04 -0800 (PST) From: pop79@altavista.net Message-Id: <199903152356.JAA07489@lebunka.ion.com.au> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:26:05 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: (For your info.) New fuel cell Priority: normal In-reply-to: <33b44b33.36ed4bc6@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Resent-Message-ID: <"MLAgG3.0.B72.rvPxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you arent interested in the 'Direct Internet Access Service' try this link instead: http://dais.net :) > Tangredi said.(CHART) About DaisTo learn more about Dais Corp., call > (727) 375-8484 or visit Dais' Web site at http://dias.net. From, Paul (Quantum Business Systems) www.quantumsystems.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 01:57:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA19196; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:57:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:57:38 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:57:30 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199903160957.KAA16642@front6.grolier.fr> X-Sender: jplentin@pop3.club-internet.fr (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Off-topic : Re: rife/bare Resent-Message-ID: <"wYBLA1.0.nh4.GiYxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Jorg, Don & all Jorg wrote : > Could we use the Rife technlogy to kill pathogens, viruses, parasites and > bacteria in drinking/grey/reuse water? Has anyone in the real world done this? Don replied : > yup, this is done... in fact I recall hearing quite a while ago that > there is actually commercial / industrial applications of this. Come on ! As a dedicated Rife aficionado, I never heard of such a product. Right now owners of Rife/Bare generators very rarely succeed killing a few Euglena or Paramecia on a microscope slide, as shown on the James Bare video. So sterilizing bulk water seems a long way off ! PS : Right now, for industrial applications, strong pulsed magnetic field seems a better prospect.A prototype is on test in France, for sterilizing food products, as a safer alternative to X-Ray flash irradiation. I don't know whether it works on water, but could enquire about that. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 05:54:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA09300; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:54:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:54:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:53:58 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca Reply-To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: Jean-Pierre Lentin Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: rife/bare, ZP co-generators for Eco Village In-Reply-To: <199903160957.KAA16642@front6.grolier.fr> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RNXtZ2.0.BH2.3Acxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Pierre: Thanks for your comments. I would assume that the electrical consumption for this magnetic food sterilizer must be very high? Part of our requirements are low energy consumption to fit into our sustainable home/office. Our reuse water, after being filtered by our solar aquatic system or planter boxes is stored in a small tank until demand. Our rainwater is also stored initially in a cistern, and then after our slow sand filter in a storage tank. Perhaps each of these locations could be candidates for using low power electrical purification (ie. Clark, Beck, Miller, Rife, Bare)? But the main question is: What FE technology would be most practical for use next summer in our Eco-Village that will not be connected to the grid (except for electrical, for export of surplus energy) beyond, stirling engines and PV? That is my greatest need. I only need 200-500 watts (24 hrs/day) to provide more than adequate electrical energy for all our requirements. What researcher or company should I talk to? Jorg Ostrowski ________________________________________________________________________ You said: "Right now, for industrial applications, strong pulsed magnetic field seems a better prospect.A prototype is on test in France, for sterilizing food products, as a safer alternative to X-Ray flash irradiation. I don't know whether it works on water, but could enquire about that." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 06:03:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12038; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:02:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:02:41 -0800 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <18d1c368.36ee645c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:02:04 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: GEET Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"s4oDd3.0._x2.0Icxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/15/99 9:36:08 AM Central Standard Time, jdo@ucalgary.ca writes: > > Mark: Have you or ANYONE had success contacting Paul by e-mail? I have > not. Has anyone tried running his generator on 100% water? Does he have > an agreement with the oil companies not to promote this? If his technology > did not rely on fossil fuels, then I think it has promise. > _________________________________ The GEET carburator runs on a broad var From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 06:06:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13582; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:06:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:06:45 -0800 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <64562762.36ee6512@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:05:06 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: GEET Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"o4O142.0.6K3.qLcxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/15/99 9:36:08 AM Central Standard Time, jdo@ucalgary.ca writes: > > Mark: Have you or ANYONE had success contacting Paul by e-mail? I have > not. Has anyone tried running his generator on 100% water? Does he have > an agreement with the oil companies not to promote this? If his technology > did not rely on fossil fuels, then I think it has promise. > _________________________________ The Geet Carburator uses anything burnable. Icebeer and other homemade fuels should work just fine. His present carburator design requires clean fuel that's homogenous. He recomends gasoline because of its easy availability. Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 06:21:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15524; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:20:38 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:20:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:18:04 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: PetMagic@aol.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: GEET In-Reply-To: <64562762.36ee6512@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fgXV73.0.So3.dYcxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter: If you can use homemade "icebeer", can I use my roof-collected rainwater as my homemade fuel? It is clean, homogeneous free and readily available, even in a semi-arid climate in Calgary Alberta Canada. I collect 61,000 l/year. Would the GEET distributors please speak up (off-line is OK)? 80% water has been admitted. What about 100%? Jorg Ostrowski ___________________________________________________________ You said: The Geet Carburator uses anything burnable. Icebeer and other homemade fuels should work just fine. His present carburator design requires clean fuel that's homogenous. He recomends gasoline because of its easy availability. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 09:59:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26281; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:57:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:57:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199903161757.MAA27016@icx.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:57:34 -0500 Subject: Re: rife/bare From: "Richard Austin" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5NZ_V1.0.SQ6.3kfxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote: Richard, Dennis, David and others: Could we use the Rife technlogy to kill pathogens, viruses, parasites and bacteria in drinking/grey/reuse water? Has anyone in the real world done this? If so we would like to try building one and perform tests. We are familiar with Dr. Hulda Clark's Zapper, the work of Dr. Bob Beck and the Electrifier of Thomas Miller. Advice and suggestions welcomed. Jorg Ostrowski _______________________________________________________________________ Sure, just electrocute them. Should only take a few seconds to directly electrocute bacteria with high voltage. Since you're not trying to do it to a living person you can crank up the voltage. The direct electrode method will be MUCH cheaper than anything else... You don't need the Rife stuff... Don't need much power either. -- Richard Austin, Director Institute for Planetary Renewal, http://user.icx.net/~richarda "Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -- Albert Einstein. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 12:30:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10902; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:29:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:29:55 -0800 Message-ID: <36EEA32C.465FD97A@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:30:04 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: rife/bare References: <199903161757.MAA27016@icx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"86qf72.0.8g2.2zhxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: that makes sense, however what about things like 'giardia' would that kill this also? Richard Austin wrote: > > Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote: > > Richard, Dennis, David and others: Could we use the Rife technlogy to kill > pathogens, viruses, parasites and bacteria in drinking/grey/reuse > water? Has anyone in the real world done this? If so we would like to > try building one and perform tests. We are familiar with Dr. > Hulda Clark's Zapper, the work of Dr. Bob Beck and the Electrifier of > Thomas Miller. Advice and suggestions welcomed. Jorg Ostrowski > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Sure, just electrocute them. Should only take a few seconds to directly > electrocute bacteria with high voltage. Since you're not trying to do it to > a living person you can crank up the voltage. The direct electrode method > will be MUCH cheaper than anything else... > > You don't need the Rife stuff... > Don't need much power either. > > -- > Richard Austin, Director > Institute for Planetary Renewal, http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > "Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances for survival of life > on Earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -- Albert Einstein. -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 12:36:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05314; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:36:17 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:36:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EEA356.D4F80F42@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:30:46 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off-topic : Re: rife/bare References: <199903160957.KAA16642@front6.grolier.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TOBKK3.0.xI1.-2ixs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Pierre, All I can tell you is that I came across an article about 8 months ago that said a variant of this tech was in use ofr water treatment. I recall that the authour of the article was a bit perturbed that the tech would be used by authorities for cheap water cleansing but not allowed for other uses. Perhaps the article was mistaken. I do not claim having used this method so I cannot testify first hand. As per the comments 'very rarely succeed killing a few Euglena or...' I was under the impression that this generator had the ability to penetrate deeply and could reach a 100 foot radius. Also, Bare says that with some freqs., (can't recall which but its in his book) they could literally shake a person off their feet? Enjoyed your other comments about pulsed mag fields, with luck that turns out to be a viable approach also. Cheers, Don Jean-Pierre Lentin wrote: > > Hello Jorg, Don & all > > Jorg wrote : > > Could we use the Rife technlogy to kill pathogens, viruses, parasites and > > bacteria in drinking/grey/reuse water? Has anyone in the real world done this? > > Don replied : > > yup, this is done... in fact I recall hearing quite a while ago that > > there is actually commercial / industrial applications of this. > > Come on ! As a dedicated Rife aficionado, I never heard of such a product. > Right now owners of Rife/Bare generators very rarely succeed killing a few > Euglena or Paramecia on a microscope slide, as shown on the James Bare > video. So sterilizing bulk water seems a long way off ! > > PS : Right now, for industrial applications, strong pulsed magnetic field > seems a better prospect.A prototype is on test in France, for sterilizing > food products, as a safer alternative to X-Ray flash irradiation. I don't > know whether it works on water, but could enquire about that. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jean-Pierre Lentin > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 12:49:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18813; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:49:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:49:32 -0800 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:45:25 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:49:03 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:22:04 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: GEET In-reply-to: To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:45:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1969ZXVIMIOSZ X400-MTS-identifier: [;52545161309991/3598033@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"aQ6jC3.0.rb4.SFixs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jorg, The GEET engine is still just an internal combustion engine, something has to burn to create heat expansion, to be converted into mechanical energy. Water doesn't burn, it is used like nitrogen as a heat induced expansion material. The fuel burns and gets really hot, some of the heat is absorbed by the water and flashes into high pressure steam. The engine becomes more efficient using the water as leverage, but no energy is derived from the water. The GEET device makes the fuel that does burn, burn more thoroughly, so you need less volume of fuel. However you need to make up that volume in order to provide expansion mass of some kind, water is cheap so that's what they use. I wish a GEET distributor would pipe in too, but I can't get them to respond to my email. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >Peter: If you can use homemade "icebeer", can I use my >roof-collected rainwater as my homemade fuel? It is clean, homogeneous >free and readily available, even in a semi-arid climate in Calgary >Alberta Canada. I collect 61,000 l/year. Would the GEET distributors >please speak up (off-line is OK)? 80% water has been admitted. What about >100%? Jorg Ostrowski ___________________________________________________________ >You said: >The Geet Carburator uses anything burnable. Icebeer and other homemade >fuels should work just fine. His present carburator design requires clean >fuel that's homogenous. He recomends gasoline because of its easy >availability. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 13:55:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22102; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:54:46 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:54:46 -0800 (PST) Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <000701be6eb1$33cd1e60$d68b19d4@xxx> From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Vicente_Jos=E9_Ramos_Orenga?=" To: Subject: NEW TAKAHASHI PATENT??? Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:58:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE6EB9.93E64760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Zvag12.0.9P5.YCjxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE6EB9.93E64760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, A friend from Spain report me this patent: http://www.patents.ibm.com/patlist?icnt=3DUS&patent_number=3D5861693 Seems interesting?? Vicente. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE6EB9.93E64760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,
A friend from Spain report me this=20 patent:
http://www.patents.ibm.com/patlist?icnt=3DUS&patent_number=3D586= 1693
Seems interesting??
Vicente.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE6EB9.93E64760-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 14:02:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA24177; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:01:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:01:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903162102.PAA26378@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: GEET Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:00:48 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jeZ4L3.0.Xv5.rIjxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You have to use very clean water. Most tap water will quickly leave a build-up on the plugs. This from the good old WWII days of water injection in the US to save fuel you couldn't hardly get. Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 > To: freenrg-l > Subject: Re: GEET > Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 2:22 PM > > Jorg, > > The GEET engine is still just an internal combustion engine, something has > to burn to create heat expansion, to be converted into mechanical energy. > > Water doesn't burn, it is used like nitrogen as a heat induced expansion > material. The fuel burns and gets really hot, some of the heat is absorbed > by the water and flashes into high pressure steam. The engine becomes more > efficient using the water as leverage, but no energy is derived from the > water. > > The GEET device makes the fuel that does burn, burn more thoroughly, so you > need less volume of fuel. However you need to make up that volume in order > to provide expansion mass of some kind, water is cheap so that's what they > use. > > I wish a GEET distributor would pipe in too, but I can't get them to > respond to my email. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > > >Peter: If you can use homemade "icebeer", can I use my > >roof-collected rainwater as my homemade fuel? It is clean, homogeneous > >free and readily available, even in a semi-arid climate in Calgary > >Alberta Canada. I collect 61,000 l/year. Would the GEET distributors > >please speak up (off-line is OK)? 80% water has been admitted. What about > >100%? Jorg Ostrowski > ___________________________________________________________ > >You said: > >The Geet Carburator uses anything burnable. Icebeer and other homemade > >fuels should work just fine. His present carburator design requires clean > >fuel that's homogenous. He recomends gasoline because of its easy > >availability. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 15:32:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA20328; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:31:50 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:31:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990317100121.007e5c30@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:01:21 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Methernitha Testatica in Exotic Research Report In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990313231155.0095fdc0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lfxa.0.Sz4.Tdkxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:15 AM 3/13/99 -0700, you wrote: > Would like to hear about this myself and see what relationship it has to the swiss ml machine he was said to have worked on Geoff >Has anyone ever attended a demonstration by Calvin Bahlmann? >Jorg Ostrowski >_______________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html last updated November 1998 my postal address as follows Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Energy 21 website now resides at http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html Bright Sparks website. http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ our site search facility is located at. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 15:32:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03342; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:32:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:32:11 -0800 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:42:43 -0500 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:46:23 -0500 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:11:29 -0500 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: GEET In-reply-to: <199903162102.PAA26378@mw3.texas.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:42:00 -0500 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1970ZXVIPB1CI X400-MTS-identifier: [;34247161309991/3598413@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"-tA2C2.0.6q.xdkxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Joe, WWII, they were still doing this in the early 80's on the Air Forces KC135's. They would inject denatured water into the exhaust plenum of the older style engines. And you knew the instant it happened too, it would go from a modest Boeing 707 airliner type roar to a deep throated, building shaking, piss the townies off, rumbling primal shrieking ROOOOOOOAR!!! Great fun to listen too, unless you are buried elbows deep in a radar assembly with large questionably discharged capacitors ready to bite you at any moment. But again, no extra energy, just leverage, turning high temperature exhaust gasses into very high pressure steam powered thrust. They could only do this on take off, because the extra pressure would cause too much wear and tear on the engines. They needed the extra boost to get these flying gas stations off the ground, and water is cheaper than after burner fuel or Jato rockets. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >You have to use very clean water. Most tap water will quickly leave a >build-up on the plugs. This from the good old WWII days of water injection >in the US to save fuel you couldn't hardly get. >Joe Portman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 16:21:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27318; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:21:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:21:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199903170021.SAA20686@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: GEET Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:19:53 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vp7p21.0.lg6.LMlxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Your right...but I thought it was only done on fighter jets...Joe ---------- > From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 > To: freenrg-l > Subject: Re: GEET > Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 4:11 PM > > Joe, > > WWII, they were still doing this in the early 80's on the Air Forces KC135's. > > They would inject denatured water into the exhaust plenum of the older style > engines. And you knew the instant it happened too, it would go from a modest > Boeing 707 airliner type roar to a deep throated, building shaking, piss the > townies off, rumbling primal shrieking ROOOOOOOAR!!! > > Great fun to listen too, unless you are buried elbows deep in a radar assembly > with large questionably discharged capacitors ready to bite you at any moment. > > But again, no extra energy, just leverage, turning high temperature exhaust > gasses into very high pressure steam powered thrust. > > They could only do this on take off, because the extra pressure would cause > too much wear and tear on the engines. They needed the extra boost to get > these flying gas stations off the ground, and water is cheaper than after > burner fuel or Jato rockets. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > > >You have to use very clean water. Most tap water will quickly leave a > >build-up on the plugs. This from the good old WWII days of water injection > >in the US to save fuel you couldn't hardly get. > >Joe Portman > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 16:53:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA06342; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:51:44 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:51:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990317005622.00971a3c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:56:22 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Sir John Herschel Resent-Message-ID: <"C40Jw3.0.xY1.Polxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was looking for Sir John Herschel's philosophy of music theory and structure when I came across this: http://infi.net/~cwt/moon1835.html http://users.visi.net/~cwt/moonwalk.html I wonder if Sir Herschel's glass optics used in his telescope are still servicable? Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 17:08:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11299; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:07:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:07:54 -0800 From: "felis catus" To: Subject: Re: GEET Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:49:06 -0500 Message-ID: <01be700f$f5b8c560$0100007f@cat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"r5W6y3.0.Sm2.f1mxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Paul Pantoines patent application was approved this summer, and a Number given it with printing in the weekly Official Gazette. You might do well to search Patent Office archives and order a copy of his patent at www.uspto.gov. For an alternative system to the Pantoine patent-the Gunnerman system: http://www.keelynet.com/energy/gunnhist.htm http://www.keelynet.com/energy/gunnpat.htm Details are given in Patent and article to construct a working model of this system- a gasoline motor-generator to produce power. -----Original Message----- From: Jorg D. Ostrowski To: PetMagic@aol.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 9:30 AM Subject: Re: GEET > >Peter: If you can use homemade "icebeer", can I use my >roof-collected rainwater as my homemade fuel? It is clean, homogeneous >free and readily available, even in a semi-arid climate in Calgary >Alberta Canada. I collect 61,000 l/year. Would the GEET distributors >please speak up (off-line is OK)? 80% water has been admitted. What about >100%? Jorg Ostrowski > ___________________________________________________________ >You said: >The Geet Carburator uses anything burnable. Icebeer and other homemade fuels >should work just fine. His present carburator design requires clean fuel >that's homogenous. He recomends gasoline because of its easy availability. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 18:04:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31469; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:04:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:04:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199903170203.UAA04176@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Sir John Herschel Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:02:15 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5FI5y1.0.Xh7.Ismxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I once read that music was a series of expectaions and fulfillments. On an icy sidewalk.....F you don't C sharp you'll B flat... Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: Recipient list suppressed > Subject: Sir John Herschel > Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 6:56 PM > > I was looking for Sir John Herschel's philosophy of music theory and > structure when I came across this: > > http://infi.net/~cwt/moon1835.html > > http://users.visi.net/~cwt/moonwalk.html > > I wonder if Sir Herschel's glass optics used in his telescope are still > servicable? > > > Regards; > Dennis > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Starfire > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html > > Unified Field Art > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG > > Tall Ships > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > Concentric Tori > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG > > Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! > http://www.artbellchatclub.com > ________________________________________ > > When I am working on a problem, > I never think about beauty. > I only think of how to solve the problem. > But when I have finished, > if the solution is not beautiful, > I know it is wrong. > > -R. Buckminster Fuller- > ________________________________________ > > 'G' defines 'objective art': > > "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in > it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows > and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one > impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of > course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical > certainty, produce one and the same impression. > > "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on > people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive > from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. > > - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the > term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral > and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the > ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in > the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or > unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having > in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the > natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to > to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot > perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower > tones; and must be part of an organized whole." > > - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > > The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect > our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men > trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the > powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every > individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come > under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, > whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the > person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this > manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. > Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since > he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone > else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be > introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will > accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend > that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to > state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the > author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great > mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man > sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". > It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once > was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's > inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big > trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). > The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of > the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the > patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the > run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. > A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely > to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the > author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in > which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. > As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their > scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a > direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA > at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One > evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the > fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be > monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call > headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began > sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. > This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by > CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. > Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. > > quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 18:39:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA26234; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:39:23 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:39:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990317103902.008592f0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:39:02 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: NEW TAKAHASHI PATENT??? In-Reply-To: <000701be6eb1$33cd1e60$d68b19d4@xxx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"isBcy2.0.lP6.JNnxs"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vicente wrote: > Hi all, A friend from Spain report me this patent: >http://www.patents.ibm.com/patlist?icnt=US&patent_number=5861693 Yes quite remarkable (& almost unbelievable!). The last paragraph before the claims reads :- "According to an experiment performed using the power-generating motor described above, the driving of the motor and the storage of the electric power continued surprisingly for a period as long as one month, by supplying the motor only with the starting power input." A not very convincing figure 9 (it has no plotted points, just rough curves) shows "Energy efficiency" starting at zero for very low revs, and going up to over 300% for rpms of 500 and 3500 (two curves one with and one without a resonating capacitor). Anyone know any background on Takahashi or this invention ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 16 20:01:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07950; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:01:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:01:15 -0800 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <877909a.36ef2614@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:48:36 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: HWeinstein@aol.com, MikeSeiler@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: GEET Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"MNJqf2.0.7y1.Aaoxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/16/99 3:52:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov writes: << >Peter: If you can use homemade "icebeer", can I use my >roof-collected rainwater as my homemade fuel? >> as long as you mix some alcohol into it... internal combustion engines work like people - you can give them imitation fuel (like margerine), but if it has calories, it will still turn the wheels. your rainwater need some "calories" added - in clean, liqiuid form. There is an alternative carburator by Pantone using a bubbler jar. (Higher techno- involvement when running it) . it can take potentially corrosive or resin containing (normally clogging jets) burnable fluid , mixed with 80 % water, of course. for the home generator or technically gifted' transportation, this is a highly versatille setup. Looks really cool under the hood of a van (close proximity to intake manifold and to manual manipulation / visual inspection during operation).The first 5 kw generator / GEET carburator units sold through Paul Panthone's network for like $1800 used the bubbler jar, but soon were streamlined with traditional carburator, GEET tube and improved fuel consumption. No aid mixing water into the intake was installed. Somewhere I have the Card of a geet distributor in Denver. - I'll post his number if requested and easily located. Using toxic waste solvents has been suggestet, as the "nuclear transmutation field" (my own term) is splitting complex molecules. Then the super hot combustion (Compression does the magic) burns better than a high temperature incinerator.. No catalytic combuster needed. The catalytic combuster may clogg after a while, as it may not reach operating temeperatures. Most states prohibit changes to the emission control system, activly discouraging certain improvements. (oxygen sensor override is one great gas saving concept) A valuable tool for doing carburation research is a spark plug with glass element for visual observation of the flame color. Anybody know where to find such animal? As of 2 years ago, Pantone sells single user restricted plans for $500. Installation requires high quality welding of the exhaust manifold - neither quick nor cheap nor easy unless you got the shop and the experience. A slopy job may produce a cracked manifold a few weeks down the road. A 69 dodge van would be good as the engine and manifold are completly accessable to the driver and mechanic - a place like Tennesse (no inspection law) would simplify licensing issues of your project van. You all enjoy your projects! Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 17 02:45:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA08919; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:45:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:45:14 -0800 Message-ID: <36EF8641.48477B84@harti.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:38:57 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: NEW TAKAHASHI PATENT ! References: <3.0.1.32.19990317103902.008592f0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3ivoK2.0.7B2.vUuxs"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Winterflood wrote: > > Vicente wrote: > > > Hi all, A friend from Spain report me this patent: > >http://www.patents.ibm.com/patlist?icnt=US&patent_number=5861693 > > Yes quite remarkable (& almost unbelievable!). The last paragraph > before the claims reads :- > > "According to an experiment performed using the power-generating > motor described above, the driving of the motor and the storage > of the electric power continued surprisingly for a period as long > as one month, by supplying the motor only with the starting power > input." There is one videotape I was told distributed by Infinite energy magazine, where you can see the motor run without any input and powering car back lights ! Ask Gene Mallove from IE magazine. www.infiniteenergy.com > > A not very convincing figure 9 (it has no plotted points, just > rough curves) shows "Energy efficiency" starting at zero for very > low revs, and going up to over 300% for rpms of 500 and 3500 > (two curves one with and one without a resonating capacitor). > > Anyone know any background on Takahashi or this invention ? He had worked at Sony and and also invented lots of other things. He also invented a new permanent magnet material with about 3 Tesla Br flux density remanenz. Unfortunately this material is not yet in mass production.. Did anybody understand, why he used 2 different permanent magnet materials in the above patent ?? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 17 13:16:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27113; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:15:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:15:30 -0800 Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <001101be6f73$b0e3e4c0$cb8f19d4@xxx> From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Vicente_Jos=E9_Ramos_Orenga?=" To: Subject: RV: NEW TAKAHASHI PATENT??? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:10:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ouc1p3.0.Rd6.mj1ys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Mensaje original----- De: Vicente José Ramos Orenga Para: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fecha: martes, 16 de marzo de 1999 22:57 Asunto: NEW TAKAHASHI PATENT??? Hi all, A friend from Spain report me this patent: http://www.patents.ibm.com/patlist?icnt=US&patent_number=5861693 Seems interesting?? Vicente. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 17 17:04:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28082; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:04:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:04:09 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990318113419.00807270@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:34:19 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Html code needed to stop AD popups Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"w0rYO1.0.cs6.445ys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am told there is a bit of html code I can place on my my web pages to stop those dreaded advert pop ups Does anyone have any idea how to do it. Thanks Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html last updated November 1998 my postal address as follows Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Energy 21 website now resides at http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html Bright Sparks website. http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ our site search facility is located at. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 17 18:04:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14385; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:03:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:03:52 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Magnetic Bubble Motor Idea, Sweet VTA worked this way..] Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:07:38 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <36DDC21B.CBE6DF55@servtech.com> In-Reply-To: <36DDC21B.CBE6DF55@servtech.com> Lines: 33 Resent-Message-ID: <"-_3Xw3.0.gW3.8y5ys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >So far its been mostly "book learning" and library research. I've read a lot >about magnetic bubbles, I have found some interesting papers on magnetic >bubbles and magnetic bubble generation. But until I can get a proper >magnetic bubble generator I will be unable to do oany experimentation. >One company told me that it would cost approx. $50,000 for them to >build the magnetic bubble generator. Then, later, they said they would >prefer not to do it at all. So, experimentation is at a stand still for the moment. >(I am hoping someone on the list will "pick up the ball and run with it....") How do these Magnetic Bubbles of yours compare to the "Bubble Memories" of the 1970's? I've seen a few of Intel's Bubble Memory modules at Ham Fest over the years, would they be of any use for any thing? About six months ago I was cleaning up my library and find a Intel 'bingo' card "return this if you want more information on our new bubble memories". I put it in the mail to see if I would get a response. :-) I didn't. Also on the http://www.nasatech.com site some time in the last six months they released a new paper on Magnetic Bubbles and how to move them. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. http://www.uCOS-II.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 17 19:03:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31238; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:03:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:03:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199903180303.VAA02552@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman Sr." To: Subject: Re: Html code needed to stop AD popups Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:01:32 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zIR5u.0.sd7.xp6ys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Golly, the software would be something. I find that you can use your brain to screen them out. It's a question of switching from a reactive position to an elective one. Hope this helps. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: GEOFF EGEL > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Html code needed to stop AD popups > Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 8:34 PM > > I am told there is a bit of html code I can place on my my web pages > to stop those dreaded advert pop ups > > Does anyone have any idea how to do it. > Thanks > Geoff > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Solaris searching for natures energy sources. > Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost > at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html > > last updated November 1998 > > my postal address as follows > Geoff Egel > 18 Sturt Street > Loxton 5333 > South Australia > Australia > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Energy 21 website now resides at > http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html > > Bright Sparks website. > > http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ > > our site search facility is located at. > > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 17 19:15:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05509; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:15:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:15:35 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:13:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Html code needed to stop AD popups Message-ID: <19990317.221355.103.1.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,7-14,16-32,34-48 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Tingley Resent-Message-ID: <"GztCX2.0.rL1.M_6ys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: According to an article I am reading in PCWEEK, there are some products, Intermute, AtGuard from WRQ, and WebWasher from Siemens that you can install for your browser, but I don't know about on your web page. Dave On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:34:19 +0900 GEOFF EGEL writes: >I am told there is a bit of html code I can place on my my web >pages >to stop those dreaded advert pop ups > >Does anyone have any idea how to do it. >Thanks >Geoff >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- >--- >Solaris searching for natures energy sources. >Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > >Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no >cost >at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html > >last updated November 1998 > >my postal address as follows >Geoff Egel >18 Sturt Street >Loxton 5333 >South Australia >Australia >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- >------- >Energy 21 website now resides at >http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html > >Bright Sparks website. > >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ > >our site search facility is located at. > >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 17 20:02:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA23366; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:02:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:02:08 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01be70f3$aba2f560$76e288d0@paul> From: "Paul Delisle" To: Subject: Re: Html code needed to stop AD popups Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:59:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"n0mRi1.0._i5._g7ys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Geof, This software filters out banners and pop-ups.: http://adfilter.com/ Paul >I am told there is a bit of html code I can place on my my web pages >to stop those dreaded advert pop ups > >Does anyone have any idea how to do it. >Thanks >Geoff >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >--- >Solaris searching for natures energy sources. >Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > >Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost >at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html > >last updated November 1998 > >my postal address as follows >Geoff Egel >18 Sturt Street >Loxton 5333 >South Australia >Australia >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >------- >Energy 21 website now resides at >http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html > >Bright Sparks website. > >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ > >our site search facility is located at. > >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 17 21:30:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15856; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:30:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:30:12 -0800 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:23:25 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Off subject "American Death Camps" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"OEE1M1.0.at3.Zz8ys"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 3/17/99 9:53:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, summit@SPECENT.COM writes: << > >> > >>In a message dated 3/10/99 7:35:16 PM Mountain Standard Time, > >>VEGIVIC@aol.com > >>writes: > >> > >><< > >> American Death Camps > >> by Samuel Foster > >> > >> We live in strange times. > >> > >> Suffice it to say I am a captain (not my actual rank, but at least that) > >> in the National Guard; but I can't tell you which state, as that > >> information surely will be the quick road to my demise. I have > >> faithfully served my country in Desert Storm and Panama, both events > >> having nothing to do with the National Security safety of this Great > >> Country of ours. > >> > >> My wife has the same disease I have, and the doctors are still telling > >> me I have the flue. Does a flue last eight years? We'll get to that > >> later. We both are under the age of forty, but we no longer look young. > >> Nothing can change my mind that my superiors-so-called officers and > >> gentlemen-have murdered us. > >> > >> One of my duties requires me to train through rotation with other units, > >> the ongoing guard staff of various clandestine Prisons many Americans > >> that over-sight committees do not know exist. These prisons, or "camps" > >> as we call them, were built for no other purpose than for the common > >> American taxpayer. I know. I helped build three of them. > >> > >> Somewhere along the way, I have lost my soul in the process. > >> > >> I know for a fact that this government of ours plans to turn America > >> into a wasteland of proportions that stagger any imagination. It is the > >> Pentagon and Wall Street's ambition to create no less than a slave state > >> by the year 2001. They will do it too-with the media's help-because in > >> many ways, they have already succeeded in destroying our civil liberties > >> and making the middle-class an ancient idea. > >> > >> How can I say these things? From where do I speak? > >> > >> A few years ago, I was called to a meeting in Fort Mead to join the > >> augmenting of a unit which would report directly to FEMA in the event of > >> national disaster. Did we discuss earthquakes, tornadoes, or flooding? > >> Not on your life. After obtaining several new written security > >> clearances and after having signed no less than eleven documents-all > >> giving away my life and liberty should I ever speak out-I was let in on > >> the following plan. > >> > >> Before out give out the structure of this plan, I beg anyone who reads > >> this document to share with as many people as possible what I consider > >> our last, best chance to reverse the horrible course this country is > >> going to take in the next twenty-four months. The outline is as I > >> remember it, as everything was verbal-nothing was ever written down. > >> Troop movements, orders, and materiel was all coded with words that > >> meant something other than what they were. For example, if we needed 150 > >> new prison cells, we didn't call them prison cells. They became "Cfood > >> units, CIV" Given a code sheet, we could then interpret and act upon any > >> written order. Most were email in our net and were to be destroyed once > >> the order was carried out. This was routine policy and is still in > >> effect today. > >> > >> 1.Establish a network of prisons to deal with the estimated twenty > >> million Americans who will not go along with the New America. This new > >> country will no longer resemble the USA we all grew up in. It will be a > >> dictatorship with institutionalized and mandated slave labor. > >> > >> 2.Schools will no longer teach actual history. The schools of the future > >> will mainly be warehouses for the young. They will teach the party > >> system: that family is dead, and that work is good. Discovering this > >> point made me so violently ill I became incontinent. > >> > >> 3.Voting will be suspended. Many of us already know that the American > >> vote is a sham. Officers above the rank of Major are well aware of who > >> gives the orders in this country. Not the White House, but the CIA. The > >> White House and its changing occupant are merely the visible servant of > >> something much darker and the Presidents sole purpose is to create laws > >> which lower real income, create war states, and keep the military > >> machine running with ever-expanding budgets. I know. I was there at many > >> meetings where foreign policy was dictated by four-star generals. > >> > >> 4.Gun owners will have their guns taken, by force if necessary, before > >> many of the plans points are made operational. > >> > >> 5.The enforcers of the plan will be Nato and UN forces working in > >> cooperation with the US Military and headed by the product from the > >> intel groups and the FEMA. > >> > >> 6.Use the lists compiled by the FBI and NSA and round up all those men > >> and women who have ever showed any inkling whatsoever in the > >> constitution or civil rights. This especially includes gun-owners and > >> religious persons. > >> > >> 7.Using lists obtained from grocery stores and banks, individuals with > >> income spent in stockpiling of goods will also be rounded up and their > >> property absconded. > >> > >> 8.The Teachings of Hinduism, Christianity, and Islam will be considered > >> anti-American. Pastors, preachers, and holy men and women are to be > >> rounded up for "re-education." > >> > >> 9.The establishment of work colonies and the takeover of the media by > >> the Pentagon. > >> > >> 10.Free trade of stocks will be frozen and the assets of many > >> individuals outright taken away. > >> > >> 11.The creation of mass crematoriums in Arizona, Texas, and Washington. > >> The dead will no longer be buried, but will be sent to a place where > >> they will be "cleansed." > >> > >> 12.The creation of a national police force with complete power. This > >> point, as with many others, has already occurred and the force is now > >> 80% operational. > >> > >> Friends, there is little more than I can say, except to give you my > >> promise that I will constantly provide as much facts as possible to lead > >> you to the truth. You want camp locations? Ill get them out. You want > >> dates and places, I get them too. > >> > >> God help us in our time of need. > >> > >> Sam > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: [Essene] Fwd slaves .eml > [Essene] Fwd slaves .eml Type: message/rfc822 > Encoding: 7bit >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 01:55:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02556; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:55:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:55:43 -0800 Message-ID: <36F0C54E.FA88D386@harti.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:20:14 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Html code needed to stop AD popups References: <3.0.5.32.19990318113419.00807270@main.murray.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U67HR2.0.rd.VsCys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: GEOFF EGEL wrote: > > I am told there is a bit of html code I can place on my my web pages > to stop those dreaded advert pop ups > > Does anyone have any idea how to do it. > Thanks > Geoff > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Solaris searching for natures energy sources. > Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > Hi Geoff, as this sound like a good idea, you must realize, that geocities.com is making money with this ad to give you your free WEB space ! Otherwise you had to pay for your space ! Maybe you should not do, otherwise your site will probably removed by geocities techsupport. If you violate their rules, suddenly all your files are deleted and it is a big hassle to upload them all again ! Just a helpfull hint. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 05:19:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20137; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:18:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:18:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36F0FD3B.CDF8DB66@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:18:51 -0800 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-L@eskimo.com" Subject: Muller Magnetics & the NEW TAKAHASHI PATENT References: <3.0.1.32.19990317103902.008592f0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <36EF8641.48477B84@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sWHGN1.0.Yw4.1rFys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > There is one videotape I was told distributed by Infinite energy > magazine, > where you can see the motor run without any input and powering > car back lights ! Ask Gene Mallove from IE magazine. > > www.infiniteenergy.com > > I dont think this URL is correct, going there I find a company that seems to merely specialize in 3rd party natural gas services! Perhaps the domain name was bought out? > > > Did anybody understand, why he used 2 different permanent magnet > materials in the above patent ?? > After a careful examination of the patent (US#05861693) it would appear that the intent of using the inner layer of Co-Fe-Y is to increase the flux density whereas the outer layer of Fe-Nd-B material has a larger coefficient of permeance. Combined these two materials give a magnet that is both powerful (in terms of ferro-magnetic attractive force, Teslas-Gauss-Webbers..whatever) and yet less prone to resistive magnetic hysterisis. I'm not sure I buy the notion of this design as OU, since it must rely on the energy of it's magnets to: a) attract/repel the pole faces during rotary motion AND b.) to induce the useful output current. The Hall-Effect devices act like gates, biasing the transistors into avalanche and dumping current into the successive field coils to "regauge" the rotor with respect to the stator's polefaces. IF this works, (and I say IF because I havent seen it yet!) then it would seem that the I^2R losses, ohmic heating and hysterisis in the stator's iron core would just have to eventually cause the magnets to lose their power! The device may very well be capable of running for a month - but after THAT, the magnets would be too weak to keep running. Think of the magnets as being a sort of "gas-tank".. Now it seems to me that there was a company in CANADA, that had made some sort of discovery regarding an almost zero-hysterisis-loss material that they were claiming could replace the soft-iron cores in such designs...they had a website..I did inquire about it and never got much in the way of real, solid information..it was Muller Magnetics (now called The Muller Group). They have a basic webpage at: http://www.polar.bc.ca/magnet/ It seems that Muller has made some discovery about amorphous magnetic material (and don't laugh, it is possible! Remember the flap about the Ovashinski Amorphous Solar Cell back in the 1960's? Well I do..they orthodoxy had a damn field-day with their scoffing and now General Motors OWNS the patents!) and this, he claims, is the cornerstone for real OU in the form of perm-magnet motors. I dunno..I'd like a chance to try duplicating the work, then testing it before shouting 'Eureka!'. ;) Perhaps someone from Muller Group could enlighten us... Just as an aside, it would seem to me that OU would be best possible in devices that do not use moving parts - Sweet's VTA, Correa's PAGD, etcetra...since these gadgets don't need to contend with frictional losses, etc. At one point, the Swiss-ML or Testatika device seemed promising, but I find it difficult to understand why there is 1.) no CLEAR SCHEMATIC DIAGRAM for this device. (keeping aside that I dont believe for one second the diagram that purports to "reveal" that the device uses radium in a capacitor..at least, not in the form shown!) 2.) No one seems to know exactly what's inside those Leyden Jars that sit on the left and right of the apparatus.. ..has anyone here contacted Don Kelly about this machine?? Is he on this list?? > > Regards, Stefan. > And to you Stefan, thanks for your continued efforts to keep an eye on things, do some experiments and report back. Over the years, your willingness to do this has been nothing less than saintly in my estimation! Cheers! Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 05:55:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA28290; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:55:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:55:16 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:55:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Html code needed to stop AD popups Message-ID: <19990318.085558.103.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-12,14-15,17-27,29-66 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David L Tingley Resent-Message-ID: <"MR4TN3.0.xv6.4NGys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Geocities you can put a geoguide on the top of your page. Look up in the members area for how to do it. This stops the pop ups but the ads still appear only they are on the top of the page instead of a new window. I have done that and it is a little less anoying, but the pop ups still come up if you have a page that doesn't have the geoguide. I am actually thinking about breaking down and spending the 5 bucks a month to get rid of them altogether on my web site. Dave ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/3992/dt.html The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:20:14 +0100 Stefan Hartmann writes: >GEOFF EGEL wrote: >> >> I am told there is a bit of html code I can place on my my web >pages >> to stop those dreaded advert pop ups >> >> Does anyone have any idea how to do it. >> Thanks >> Geoff >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- >> --- >> Solaris searching for natures energy sources. >> Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 >> >> > >Hi Geoff, > >as this sound like a good idea, >you must realize, >that geocities.com is making money with this ad to give you >your free WEB space ! > >Otherwise you had to pay for your space ! > >Maybe you should not do, otherwise your site will probably >removed by geocities techsupport. > >If you violate their rules, suddenly all your files >are deleted and it is a big hassle to upload them all again ! > >Just a helpfull hint. > >Regards, Stefan. > > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 14:41:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA03926; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:39:14 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:39:14 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRhZCjM2iLuMPzS+OnHyYf+OTfzvwIVAL3VY/MRSYTc6zqpLsj+i7BphWyA From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:37:50 -0500 (EST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Muller Magnetics & the NEW TAKAHASHI PATENT Message-ID: <21922-36F1803E-291@mailtod-121.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: eks1 's message of Thu, 18 Mar 1999 05:18:51 -0800 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"_qCoo1.0.Fz.E2Oys"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Found this company that makes Amorphous magnetic cores for coils, possibly the same used in the Muller generator.Amorphous: National-Arnold Magnetics: tape wound magnetic cores Address:http://namcores.com/amorphous.html RB From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 16:09:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24470; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:08:48 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:08:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990319103630.007f9430@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:36:30 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Hydrogen producing device Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vS4-J2.0.F-5.DMPys"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have recieved an email from a web owner and have reproduced the hydrogen producing device web page at my energy 21 The article and photo graphs can be seen at http://www.Fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/16/layo.html Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html last updated November 1998 my postal address as follows Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Energy 21 website now resides at http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html Bright Sparks website. http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ our site search facility is located at. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 16:51:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08826; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:51:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:51:23 -0800 From: pop79@altavista.net Message-Id: <199903190051.KAA02738@lebunka.ion.com.au> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:51:32 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Hydrogen producing device Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19990319103630.007f9430@main.murray.net.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Resent-Message-ID: <"cJ5Zy3.0.j92.9-Pys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Geoff, I cant seem to get this page. Did you make a mistake? Also, which device is this? The Joe? > I have recieved an email from a web owner and have reproduced the hydrogen > producing device web page at my energy 21 > > > The article and photo graphs can be seen at > > http://www.Fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/16/layo.html From, Paul (Quantum Business Systems) www.quantumsystems.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 08:41:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA17288; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:41:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:41:34 -0800 Message-ID: <36F11E81.BF67666D@harti.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:40:49 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eks1@earthlink.net, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Muller Magnetics & the NEW TAKAHASHI PATENT References: <3.0.1.32.19990317103902.008592f0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <36EF8641.48477B84@harti.com> <36F0FD3B.CDF8DB66@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P4_Nl2.0.wD4.-oIys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: eks1 wrote: > > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > > There is one videotape I was told distributed by Infinite energy > > magazine, > > where you can see the motor run without any input and powering > > car back lights ! Ask Gene Mallove from IE magazine. > > > > www.infiniteenergy.com > > > > Sorry it is: http://www.infinite-energy.com/ donīt forget the hyphen ! > > I dont think this URL is correct, going there I find a company that > seems to merely > specialize in 3rd party natural gas services! Perhaps the domain name > was bought > out? > No.. typo.. :) > > > > > > Did anybody understand, why he used 2 different permanent magnet > > materials in the above patent ?? > > > > After a careful examination of the patent (US#05861693) it would appear > that the > intent of using the inner layer of Co-Fe-Y is to increase the flux > density whereas the How does it increase the flux density ? normally the Neodymium magnets already have a higher flux density, or am I wrong with this ? > outer layer of Fe-Nd-B material has a larger coefficient of permeance. Do you mean the permanence flux density of the magnet without an outer field ? (Remanenz) ? > Combined > these two materials give a magnet that is both powerful (in terms of > ferro-magnetic > attractive force, Teslas-Gauss-Webbers..whatever) and yet less prone to > resistive > magnetic hysterisis. Will it at all go through hysteries a lot ? I donīt think so. It stays in its working place point in the BH diagram. > I'm not sure I buy the notion of this design as OU, since it must rely > on the energy > of it's magnets to: a) attract/repel the pole faces during rotary motion > AND b.) to > induce the useful output current. > > The Hall-Effect devices act like gates, biasing the transistors into > avalanche and > dumping current into the successive field coils to "regauge" the rotor > with respect > to the stator's polefaces. > > IF this works, (and I say IF because I havent seen it yet!) then it > would seem that > the I^2R losses, ohmic heating and hysterisis in the stator's iron core > would just > have to eventually cause the magnets to lose their power! The device may > very well > be capable of running for a month - but after THAT, the magnets would be > too > weak to keep running. Think of the magnets as being a sort of > "gas-tank".. Well, the magnets do not have so much power stored for a month ! If that would be the case, the magnets would be dead in a few seconds ! If you multiply B x H and list it in Wattsseconds you can see, that the amount of energy storage is pretty small ! > > Now it seems to me that there was a company in CANADA, that had made > some > sort of discovery regarding an almost zero-hysterisis-loss material that > they were > claiming could replace the soft-iron cores in such designs...they had a > website..I > did inquire about it and never got much in the way of real, solid > information..it was > Muller Magnetics (now called The Muller Group). They have a basic > webpage at: > http://www.polar.bc.ca/magnet/ Yes, they said they have a good amaourphous material, but their motor never worked OU, at least no one did see it yet... > > It seems that Muller has made some discovery about amorphous magnetic > material > (and don't laugh, it is possible! Remember the flap about the Ovashinski > Amorphous > Solar Cell back in the 1960's? Well I do..they orthodoxy had a damn > field-day with > their scoffing and now General Motors OWNS the patents!) and this, he > claims, is > the cornerstone for real OU in the form of perm-magnet motors. I > dunno..I'd like > a chance to try duplicating the work, then testing it before shouting > 'Eureka!'. ;) > > Perhaps someone from Muller Group could enlighten us... > > Just as an aside, it would seem to me that OU would be best possible in > devices that > do not use moving parts - Sweet's VTA, Correa's PAGD, etcetra...since > these > gadgets don't need to contend with frictional losses, etc. At one point, > the Swiss-ML > or Testatika device seemed promising, but I find it difficult to > understand why there > is 1.) no CLEAR SCHEMATIC DIAGRAM for this device. (keeping aside that I > > dont believe for one second the diagram that purports to "reveal" that > the device uses > radium in a capacitor..at least, not in the form shown!) 2.) No one > seems to know > exactly what's inside those Leyden Jars that sit on the left and right > of the apparatus.. > ..has anyone here contacted Don Kelly about this machine?? Is he on this > list?? Methernitha still keeps it secret. I also donīt buy the Radium capacitor. That is bullshit ! They have some bifilar coils inside the lyden jars wound around magnets I was told by observers, who have seen it. > > > > > Regards, Stefan. > > > > And to you Stefan, thanks for your continued efforts to keep an eye on > things, do > some experiments and report back. Over the years, your willingness to do > this has > been nothing less than saintly in my estimation! > > Cheers! > > Erik Thanks ! best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 18:21:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA26935; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:21:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:21:30 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Muller Magnetics & the NEW TAKAHASHI PATENT Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:18:01 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <3.0.1.32.19990317103902.008592f0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> <36EF8641.48477B84@harti.com> <36F0FD3B.CDF8DB66@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <36F0FD3B.CDF8DB66@earthlink.net> Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.27Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"Gmual2.0.ia6.gIRys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >It seems that Muller has made some discovery about amorphous magnetic >material >(and don't laugh, it is possible! Do a search for 'MetGlas' by Allied Signal, the stuffs been used in obscure high power transformers for years. You can get it in sheets or cores, was expensive last I checked in to it a few years ago. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. http://www.uCOS-II.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 19:22:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12666; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:21:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:21:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903190310.VAA04111@mercury.shreve.net> From: "Robert H. Calloway" To: Subject: Re: Off subject "American Death Camps" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:07:27 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SNBDS3.0.l53.uASys"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok...we have heard the your side. Now.. could you please explain why the goverment would need to resort to such tatics? Times are the best that has ever been! What advantage would it do anybody to change things from the way they are? If I were looking over the world situation from a democractic or even a communist view, how could I do better? People are under control..and money is being made.. and money is power. Simple...we keep going and going and going...like the bunny...Regards, Robert H. Calloway. "Double your money by folding it inhalf and putting it back in your pocket" Source: My Dad... ---------- > From: MKSBoysal@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Off subject "American Death Camps" > Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 11:23 PM > > In a message dated 3/17/99 9:53:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, > summit@SPECENT.COM writes: > > << > >> > > >>In a message dated 3/10/99 7:35:16 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > >>VEGIVIC@aol.com > > >>writes: > > >> > > >><< > > >> American Death Camps > > >> by Samuel Foster > > >> > > >> We live in strange times. > > >> > > >> Suffice it to say I am a captain (not my actual rank, but at least > that) > > >> in the National Guard; but I can't tell you which state, as that > > >> information surely will be the quick road to my demise. I have > > >> faithfully served my country in Desert Storm and Panama, both events > > >> having nothing to do with the National Security safety of this Great > > >> Country of ours. > > >> > > >> My wife has the same disease I have, and the doctors are still telling > > >> me I have the flue. Does a flue last eight years? We'll get to that > > >> later. We both are under the age of forty, but we no longer look young. > > >> Nothing can change my mind that my superiors-so-called officers and > > >> gentlemen-have murdered us. > > >> > > >> One of my duties requires me to train through rotation with other > units, > > >> the ongoing guard staff of various clandestine Prisons many Americans > > >> that over-sight committees do not know exist. These prisons, or "camps" > > >> as we call them, were built for no other purpose than for the common > > >> American taxpayer. I know. I helped build three of them. > > >> > > >> Somewhere along the way, I have lost my soul in the process. > > >> > > >> I know for a fact that this government of ours plans to turn America > > >> into a wasteland of proportions that stagger any imagination. It is the > > >> Pentagon and Wall Street's ambition to create no less than a slave > state > > >> by the year 2001. They will do it too-with the media's help-because in > > >> many ways, they have already succeeded in destroying our civil > liberties > > >> and making the middle-class an ancient idea. > > >> > > >> How can I say these things? From where do I speak? > > >> > > >> A few years ago, I was called to a meeting in Fort Mead to join the > > >> augmenting of a unit which would report directly to FEMA in the event > of > > >> national disaster. Did we discuss earthquakes, tornadoes, or flooding? > > >> Not on your life. After obtaining several new written security > > >> clearances and after having signed no less than eleven documents-all > > >> giving away my life and liberty should I ever speak out-I was let in on > > >> the following plan. > > >> > > >> Before out give out the structure of this plan, I beg anyone who reads > > >> this document to share with as many people as possible what I consider > > >> our last, best chance to reverse the horrible course this country is > > >> going to take in the next twenty-four months. The outline is as I > > >> remember it, as everything was verbal-nothing was ever written down. > > >> Troop movements, orders, and materiel was all coded with words that > > >> meant something other than what they were. For example, if we needed > 150 > > >> new prison cells, we didn't call them prison cells. They became "Cfood > > >> units, CIV" Given a code sheet, we could then interpret and act upon > any > > >> written order. Most were email in our net and were to be destroyed once > > >> the order was carried out. This was routine policy and is still in > > >> effect today. > > >> > > >> 1.Establish a network of prisons to deal with the estimated twenty > > >> million Americans who will not go along with the New America. This new > > >> country will no longer resemble the USA we all grew up in. It will be a > > >> dictatorship with institutionalized and mandated slave labor. > > >> > > >> 2.Schools will no longer teach actual history. The schools of the > future > > >> will mainly be warehouses for the young. They will teach the party > > >> system: that family is dead, and that work is good. Discovering this > > >> point made me so violently ill I became incontinent. > > >> > > >> 3.Voting will be suspended. Many of us already know that the American > > >> vote is a sham. Officers above the rank of Major are well aware of who > > >> gives the orders in this country. Not the White House, but the CIA. The > > >> White House and its changing occupant are merely the visible servant of > > >> something much darker and the Presidents sole purpose is to create laws > > >> which lower real income, create war states, and keep the military > > >> machine running with ever-expanding budgets. I know. I was there at > many > > >> meetings where foreign policy was dictated by four-star generals. > > >> > > >> 4.Gun owners will have their guns taken, by force if necessary, before > > >> many of the plans points are made operational. > > >> > > >> 5.The enforcers of the plan will be Nato and UN forces working in > > >> cooperation with the US Military and headed by the product from the > > >> intel groups and the FEMA. > > >> > > >> 6.Use the lists compiled by the FBI and NSA and round up all those men > > >> and women who have ever showed any inkling whatsoever in the > > >> constitution or civil rights. This especially includes gun-owners and > > >> religious persons. > > >> > > >> 7.Using lists obtained from grocery stores and banks, individuals with > > >> income spent in stockpiling of goods will also be rounded up and their > > >> property absconded. > > >> > > >> 8.The Teachings of Hinduism, Christianity, and Islam will be considered > > >> anti-American. Pastors, preachers, and holy men and women are to be > > >> rounded up for "re-education." > > >> > > >> 9.The establishment of work colonies and the takeover of the media by > > >> the Pentagon. > > >> > > >> 10.Free trade of stocks will be frozen and the assets of many > > >> individuals outright taken away. > > >> > > >> 11.The creation of mass crematoriums in Arizona, Texas, and Washington. > > >> The dead will no longer be buried, but will be sent to a place where > > >> they will be "cleansed." > > >> > > >> 12.The creation of a national police force with complete power. This > > >> point, as with many others, has already occurred and the force is now > > >> 80% operational. > > >> > > >> Friends, there is little more than I can say, except to give you my > > >> promise that I will constantly provide as much facts as possible to > lead > > >> you to the truth. You want camp locations? Ill get them out. You want > > >> dates and places, I get them too. > > >> > > >> God help us in our time of need. > > >> > > >> Sam > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Name: [Essene] Fwd slaves .eml > > [Essene] Fwd slaves .eml Type: message/rfc822 > > Encoding: 7bit >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 19:39:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14461; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:38:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:38:59 -0800 From: dtmiller@nevia.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Html code needed to stop AD popups Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 03:38:42 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@nevia.net Message-ID: <36f18b5b.23155024@mail.nevia.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990318113419.00807270@main.murray.net.au> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990318113419.00807270@main.murray.net.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA14434 Resent-Message-ID: <"-9MT8.0.kX3.HRSys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Geoff, I got so mad at advertising, cookies and the like that I actually paid for a copy of @guard, which stops them (and stops the continual cycling of sprites and other moving pictures). It really does the job, and all features are on-off selectable. On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:34:19 +0900, GEOFF EGEL wrote: >I am told there is a bit of html code I can place on my my web pages >to stop those dreaded advert pop ups > >Does anyone have any idea how to do it. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 20:38:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02804; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:38:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:38:24 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:29:41 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: GEOFF EGEL , freenrg-l@eskimo.com, John Schnurer Subject: Help Geoff ...Re: Hydrogen producing device In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990319103630.007f9430@main.murray.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"x74ZM1.0.ih.zITys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Help! Dear Geoff, I do not have www access... can you please send brief ASCII description of the hydrogen generator? J On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, GEOFF EGEL wrote: > I have recieved an email from a web owner and have reproduced the hydrogen > producing device web page at my energy 21 > > > The article and photo graphs can be seen at > > http://www.Fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/16/layo.html > > > Geoff > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Solaris searching for natures energy sources. > Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost > at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html > > last updated November 1998 > > my postal address as follows > Geoff Egel > 18 Sturt Street > Loxton 5333 > South Australia > Australia > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Energy 21 website now resides at > http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html > > Bright Sparks website. > > http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ > > our site search facility is located at. > > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 21:25:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22647; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:25:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:25:10 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990317231429.00987840@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:14:32 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: Html code needed to stop AD popups Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PH4GH2.0.mX5.r-Tys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At the risk of sounding like a luddite... Turn off javascript on your browser. Then those annoying pop up ads won't pop up. Just a suggestion. K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 22:49:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24851; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:49:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:49:03 -0800 Message-ID: <36F1D63F.60A4@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:44:47 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject "American Death Camps" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"734jq1.0.C46.VDVys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You answered your own question mon ami.... > People are under control..and > money is being made.. and money is power. people are under control, they are producing, the production and direction of such is wielded by the 'controller'. What better time to harvest the human crop? as far as >Times are the best that has ever been! you are not looking globally.... only locally. In some ways times are the worst they have ever been for a very long time environmentally and socially. Did you know that almost 80% of all coral reefs in the world are dead now? And that this has happened only in the last few years? The list of anomalies go on and on... its the old scenario of 'if you put a frog in a pot and turn the heat up slowly, he'll boil alive and never know it'. -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 18 23:44:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA05002; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:43:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:43:54 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F1D63F.60A4@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:42:16 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Off subject "American Death Camps" Resent-Message-ID: <"kHFLR1.0._D1.w0Wys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don - > Did you know that almost 80% of all coral reefs in > the world are dead now? Where did you get that statistic? Perhaps you mean 8%, or 80% in some local area where there's been some damage from storms or runoff? The reefs here are ok. There are spot problems here and there, but overall they're mostly here, not mostly gone. Recent photos and descriptions of reefs in the South Pacific and Australia look pretty normal. Certainly not some 80% dead rate. Spot problems, or die-offs relating to storms - then a vigorous comeback due to the new territory opened up for growth. I've heard there are some dramatic die-offs in Florida now, but I don't think Florida holds 80% of the world's coral. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 19 00:18:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA11223; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:18:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:18:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36F1EC56.3A19@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:19:02 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject: Coral Reefs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-nt2K.0.Gl2.UXWys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick, I may be off on the exact amount but I'm pretty sure its close to that... it may be higher! An article follows your comments below... this is just one of many... you only have to do a surface web search to find tons of info like this... Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Don - > > > Did you know that almost 80% of all coral reefs in > > the world are dead now? > > Where did you get that statistic? Perhaps you mean 8%, or 80% in some local > area where there's been some damage from storms or runoff? The reefs here > are ok. There are spot problems here and there, but overall they're mostly > here, not mostly gone. I understand that some areas are worse than others of course, some locales have maybe only a 10% hit while others are close to being completely wiped out. And we're talking some areas that WERE HUGE which lost coral... Rick, I've been to Hawaii... and seen your 'mostly' ok reefs... but 'mostly' they were dead. In fact, as you know... Oahu has a huge amount of dead and scarred reefs.... sure you can find some.... but look at that bay just outside Wikiki, whats it called again... Mahaunama or something...? Its a graveyard! Lots of fish but the coral is all dead or dying! Article follows below... > Recent photos and descriptions of reefs in the South > Pacific and Australia look pretty normal. Certainly not some 80% dead rate. > Spot problems, or die-offs relating to storms - then a vigorous comeback > due to the new territory opened up for growth. I've heard there are some > dramatic die-offs in Florida now, but I don't think Florida holds 80% of > the world's coral. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI ----------------------snip ---------------------------------- Worldwide Coral Reefs Dying - Oceanic Catastrophe Looms Environmental News Network Staff 12-2-98 "The coral reefs are the canary in the mine for global warming. They will go first," said Dr. Thomas Goreau in testimony at a meeting at the climate change talks in Buenos Aires. Goreau, a scientist working with the International Union for the Conservation of Nature, said a significant proportion of the world's coral has died this year as a result of the highest sea temperatures on record. In areas surveyed in the Indian Ocean, between 70 and 90 percent is dead, IUCN scientists said. Reefs in tourist areas renowned for their diving opportunities, such as the Seychelles, Mauritius and the Maldives, have suffered massive die-offs. Thousands of miles of corals in the western Pacific, from Vietnam to the Philippines and Indonesia, have died or bleached as they have been starved of the symbiotic algae that provide their food and energy. The only large areas of coral to have escaped some devastation are the atolls of the central Pacific. To highlight the economic importance of coral reefs, Gourequ noted that reefs provide more than 100 countries with fish and other services, such as tourism worth $500 billion a year. They also prevent tidal waves and erosion. And they support 93,000 fish species -- 25 percent of the total -- in 0.3 percent of its sea area. The IUCN conclusions seem to be backed up by the results of Reef Check '97, the first global survey of human impacts on the world's coral reefs. Organized by the Institute for Environment and Sustainable Development, the survey involved more than 100 marine scientists and 750 recreational divers who surveyed 300 coral reefs in 30 countries and territories between June 15 and Aug. 31, 1997. The Reef Check methods differ from those used in traditional ecological surveys in that they were focused specifically on detecting the effects of humans on the coral reef ecosystem. Results from about 230 sites revealed a clear pattern of global damage to coral reefs, particularly due to overfishing and destructive fishing. Reef Check '97 teams found that the mean percentage of living coral cover on reefs was 31 percent globally, with the Caribbean recording the lowest value at 22 percent, possibly reflecting recent losses due to bleaching and diseases. The ratio of live to dead coral was highest in the Red Sea, suggesting that these reef corals are the healthiest in the world. One apparent bit of good news is that only seven sites showed greater than 10 percent cover of fleshy algae, indicating that nutrient enrichment associated with sewage pollution was not a problem at most of these "good" sites. Sewage pollution may be more important at reefs near urban areas which were not extensively studied in this survey. Reef fish in the Indo-Pacific, seem to be hit hard. The humphead wrasse and barramundi cod were once moderately abundant on reefs, but none were reported at 85 percent of 179 reefs surveyed. Of more than 25 kilometers of Indo-Pacific reef surveyed in detail, only 26 humphead wrasse were seen. At the 125 Asian and Australian reefs surveyed, only five barramundi cod were recorded. These results suggest that cyanide and other forms of fishing have severely damaged populations of these once moderately abundant species. High-value, edible sea cucumbers used to litter the seabed around many reefs. The three species included in Reef Check were totally absent from 41 percent of Indo-Pacific reefs surveyed, demonstrating the extent of over-harvesting. An average of 17 giant clams was found on the Indo-Pacific reefs. An indication of what natural populations used to be like was provided by the 150 to 250 giant clams recorded at several protected sites in the Red Sea and Australia. Hong Kong provides an example of coral reefs subjected to almost every form of disturbance: overfishing, poison and dynamite fishing, pollution and sedimentation. Out of 11 collectible or edible indicator species only two (Trochus shells and butterflyfish) were recorded. Several of these once-abundant species are now effectively extinct in Hong Kong. The. Sarawak Reef Check team reported that 99 percent of the reefs have been damaged by blast fishing. Surveys were also conducted in 1998, and the results are still being tallied. Reef Check works well as a rapid assessment tool, and indicates where additional, more detailed scientific studies are needed. It also shows the promise that can be found in the areas that have been formally protected and are showing signs of regeneration. A joint statement was issued by IUCN's reef scientists at the Buenos Aries conference. It said: "Unless this conference takes effective action to stop global climate change, coral reefs and the benefits they provide will be condemned to death. Other ecosystems will follow." Severe Loss Of World's Coral And Tropical Reefs In 1998 3-5-99 WAILEA, Hawaii (CNN) -- Many tropical reefs, already stressed by a modest, gradual rise in ocean temperatures worldwide, took a knockout punch last year from the sudden and dramatic water-temperature rise from El Niņo, according to a new U.S. State Department report. The report released Friday said the decline of the world's coral reefs accelerated sharply in 1998. In a year when tropical ocean surface temperatures were at an all-time high, "Coral reefs around the world appear to have suffered the most extensive and severe bleaching and subsequent mortality in modern record," the report concludes. Coral reefs are considered to be the key to tropical ocean ecosystems, and marine scientists warn that their decline could be a prelude to widespread ecological damage. The organisms that build the delicate coral structures are extremely sensitive to even modest changes in water temperature. Ocean surface temperatures have been on a gradual increase for several decades. But temperature swings in the tropical Pacific, epicenter for El Niņo's weather impact, have been as high as 15 degrees Fahrenheit in the past year. Rafe Pomerance, U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Environment and Development, said the report confirms warnings first issued in the 1970s that coral reefs would suffer dramatic losses due to water temperature change. The report, presented by Pomerance to the U.S. Coral Reef Task Force conference in Maui, Hawaii, linked the gradual warming trend to human-induced climate change. Some scientists dispute the link between warming seas and human activity, but a panel of 2,500 climate scientists issued a 1995 report predicting an increase of three to seven degrees F temperature rise and up to three feet in sea level rise in the next century. In addition to their ecological value, coral reefs' bright colors and exotic forms have spawned a tourist industry in many tropical locations. The report said that increasing coral die-off could threaten a worldwide multi-billion dollar fishing, tourism, and diving industry. Reefs also provide a measure of storm protection for many tropical ports, absorbing the impact of high waves. -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 19 00:20:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA11464; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:20:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:20:00 -0800 Message-ID: <36F1EC7E.6F3F@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:19:42 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: natural battery Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hlF8R1.0.0p2.mYWys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Canada's 2,000 Giant Forest Rings - What Are They? By Elizabeth Shilts The National Post - Canada From Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada From UFO UpDates - Toronto 3-17-99 From the ground, the backcountry of northern Ontario and northwestern Quebec seems like typical boreal forest: endless, dense stands of black spruce, tamarack, and pine, anchored in moist, peaty ground. But flying over the region on a clear day reveals a different terrain, marked with thousands of perfecily round rings, reininiscent of the bizarre crop circles that have confounded people for years. Theories of how the rings were formed have emerged from every scientific and not-so-scientific corner. Ufologists claim an extraterrestrial influence; astronomers suggest meteor showers; prospectors hope they signal diamond-bearing kimberlites (rare igneous, blue-tinged rocks); and others have contemplated unusual wind action or ancient permafrost features. "A colleague once jokingly suggested they were from moose tied up to a peg," says Jean Veillette, a geomorphologist with the Geological Survey of Canada, who has been studying the rings for more than 10 years. Stewart Hamilton, a geochemist with the Ontario Geological Survey in Sudbury, is about to unveil a theory which, at first, seems as outlandish as UFOs. Today at the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada's annual convention, he will show how the circles could be giant, natural batteries. The battery hypothesis replaces a biological explanation, which Dr. Velliette will disprove at the same convention. Dr. Veillette became intrigued by the rings in the early 1980s, when he noticed them on aerial photos he was using for a mapping project in Quebec's Abitibi region. The light colour of the rings results from sparse vegetation growth, which contrasts with the dense tree cover inside and outside the ring. Most of the rings measure less than 300 metres across, but the largest is two kilometres wide. "I recorded them as I went along," he says, "and noticed there were more rings as I moved north." Since then, he has looked at 38,000 air photos and recorded more than 2,000 of the rings, which seem to be concentrated in a band that stretches from north of Lake Nipigon in Ontario to Matagami, Que. There is also an isolated cluster on Anticosti Island at the mouth of the St. Lawrence River. Dr. Veillene consulted Jack Mollard, an aerial photography exp,efl who was one of the first geologists to study the rings in the lVGOs. Dr. Mollard suggested they were formed by a fungus that spread out radially, similar to the way the fairy-ring fungi leaves bleached rings on manicured lawns. He believed the fungus formed a killing front, strangling and weakening tree roots as ft spr6ad. If the theory were right, trees should increase in age toward the centre of the circle because they would have the most time to regenerate after the flingal infection. Myron Smith, a plant geneticist at Carleton University in Ottawa,'also supported the biological view. He had previously identified a fungus in Michigan, Amillaria bulbosa, that spread across 15 hectares of hardwood forest, weighed more than 10,000 kilograms, and had been stable for more than 1,500 years. He claimed it was among the largest and oldest living organisms. "The images [of the rings] looked consistent with the focus of infection;' says Dr. Smith. The fact that rings occurred in various sizes and some rings stopped abruptly at rivers or streams also made a case for the fungus theory But when,Mr.$mith analyzed tissue samples from the trees, he found no sign of the A. bulbosa fungus. A more definative shot to the biological theory came with a detailed botanical $tudy conduded over the past 2 years -which was initiated by Dr. Veillette and Dr. Wes Bergeron, director of foresi ecology an the University du Qudbec a' Montreal. Under their direction, Jean-Franqois Giroux, a master's student, found that trees did not increase in age toward the centre of the circle as expected in Dr.Mollard's theory. Mr. Giroux discovered another important feature: The soil underlying the ring sits one to two metres lower than the surrounding soil. In most cases, the depressions are filled with a thick mat of peat that is poofly drained land allows only trees such as tamaracks to grow. "Instead of a killing front, [the decreased growth in the rings] is strictly a moisture condition;' says Dr. Veilleffe. "In all fairness, we still do not know that it isn't biological, but we have created doubt about the vegetation theory" He once again began searching for a common geological thread among the rings. He discovered that, while they do not all sit in the same bedrock, the main concentration of rings occurs in is a band of carbonate-rich soil which spreads from Manitoba to northwestern Quebec. Those on Anticosti Island also lie on an isolated deposit of carbonate-rich bedrock and soil. The soil type, along with the discovery of the rings' soil depressions "are very exciting,,' says Mr. Hamilton. After five years of research, he released a paper last spring detailing a new model for finding mineral deposits buried deep beneath thick clays or soils. The model, based on electro-chemical processes in the earth, suggests that a mineral deposit can act as a "natural battery in the ground that is slowly and continually discharging." He has extended his theory to include the rings. He believes each ring could be acting as an individual battery; with a mineral such as iron acting as the negative charge at the circle's centre. As the negatively charged iron comes into contact with the positively charged carbonate soils on the circle's edge, it rusts, or oxidizes, leaving acidic conditions that eat away at the soil, forming a depressed ring. What is happening in the ring is "analogous to adding vinegar to baking soda," says Mr. Hamilton. "Acid is produced at the edges and dissolves away soil and the ground surface drops?' He cautions that the negative charge could also be produced by methane gas or upwelliiigs of ground water. Dr. Veillette says Mr. Hamilton's theory certainly seems plausible. "We don't yet know what they are, but we know what they are not. We are getting closer to refining a model of what it all means." Meanwhile, prospectors are chasing their own theory of what lies hidden beneath the mysterious rings. Since last spring, Bob Komarechka and three others from Sudbury have been staking mineral claims in the area and have recently formed Diamtreme Explorations Inc., hoping to strike it rich by finding minerals below the ring surface. They began to stake after noticing that the rings were similar in size to diamond-bearing kimberlite pipes. National Post From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 19 01:58:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA29631; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:58:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:58:48 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F1EC56.3A19@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:57:18 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Off subject: Coral Reefs Resent-Message-ID: <"HVL1K2.0.uE7.N_Xys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don - > I've been to Hawaii... and seen your 'mostly' ok > reefs... but 'mostly' they were dead. In fact, as you > know... Oahu has a huge amount of dead and scarred > reefs.... sure you can find some.... but look at that > bay just outside Wikiki, whats it called again... > Mahaunama or something...? Its a graveyard! In very close to shore just in front of Waikiki, the reef is mostly dead in areas where heavy foot traffic and runoff have killed it. Surrounding this area there is lots of coral. The reefs in general are alive and healthy around Oahu. Kaneohe Bay has made a good comeback from runoff problems that have been largely corrected in recent years. The other islands, with their smaller populations and less urbanization, are even better. There are, as I said, spot areas of trouble here in Hawaii, and I'm sure elsewhere. Where laws are lax or unenforced involving illegal fishing techniques, or when there's runoff, pollution, water temperature changes, storms or dust plumes, reefs do get hit. But I would never believe hyperinflated stories from the environmental elitist left - there is a grain of truth to the tale, and there's an important message of caution in it. But its magnitude is clearly way off. The left has its political agenda, and they justify lying or whatever it takes. And that completely sad paranoid nonsense about US death camps and such has no merit at all. Sick people think up some strange stuff, and we can get all we want of that on the appropriate NGs and lists. Shall we start crossposting messages from people who think they pick up secret government broadcasts encouraging self-loathing and dispair through *toilet paper* as they are using it in public restrooms? I am NOT making this up! Free energy - please. While we still can. - Rick Monteverde, Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 19 19:02:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12029; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:02:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:02:18 -0800 Message-ID: <36F2F3BC.D45FB30@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:02:52 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject: Coral Reefs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9PETh1.0.kx2.v-mys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hio Rick Rick Monteverde wrote: > > In very close to shore just in front of Waikiki, the reef is mostly dead in > areas where heavy foot traffic and runoff have killed it. Surrounding this > area there is lots of coral. The reefs in general are alive and healthy > around Oahu. Kaneohe Bay has made a good comeback from runoff problems that > have been largely corrected in recent years. The other islands, with their > smaller populations and less urbanization, are even better. well that makes sense... that article I sent you did say that islands such as yours, that are more isolated, did better. Further the article indicates a 69% global loss of coral, so I was off by 11%, ;> > There are, as I said, spot areas of trouble here in Hawaii, and I'm sure > elsewhere. Where laws are lax or unenforced involving illegal fishing > techniques, or when there's runoff, pollution, water temperature changes, > storms or dust plumes, reefs do get hit. But I would never believe > hyperinflated stories from the environmental elitist left - there is a > grain of truth to the tale, and there's an important message of caution in > it. But its magnitude is clearly way off. The left has its political > agenda, and they justify lying or whatever it takes. well hold on a sec... Hawaii and the rest of the world are two different stories... the article is just one of many to be found and instead of either side calling each other leftists or rightist or worrying about the other guys agenda it may be a better approach to simply look at the facts. The majority of the findings listed in the article are ones that should be clearly reproducable if they are true or if false, determined to be so. > And that completely sad paranoid nonsense about US death camps and such has > no merit at all. Sick people think up some strange stuff, and we can get > all we want of that on the appropriate NGs and lists. Rick, I agree with your general feelings that there are many sad stories invented by sick minds. It may well be that this is one of them. I do not know enough to comment strongly either way... however I can say that I have come across information within the last year that seems to inidcate something nasty is afoot. In your own country there has been some very odd things going on which are not simply heresay but documented fact. It may be that you've been unaware of some of these and are thus commenting from a position which is more comfortable to your worldview... I can't blame you for that as all of us do that at different times and to different degrees. > Shall we start crossposting messages from people who think they pick up secret government > broadcasts encouraging self-loathing and dispair through *toilet paper* as > they are using it in public restrooms? I am NOT making this up! Rick, I'm sure you'll agree this isnt an EITHER / OR situation. Do we accept and digest everything a crazie says? No... of course not... but then do we exclude and constrain any person who conveys radical, scary information that does not fit or conform to our current perceptions? I would suggest that route is as detrimental as the former. Where one draws the line is a personal choice, and in the context of a group may be made by a consensus... however, I as one don't see any crime or foul here as this post was one on the edge...it didnt seem too crazy and it couldnt be proven to be true... AND it was prefixed with the disclaimer of 'OFF TOPIC' as a courtesy for those reading. This is a free energy site, in my opinion topics here should be related...at the very least to topics of this nature in some way. This wasn't related, but it said so right in the topic header. Maybe I'm just too laid back, but if someone takes the time to send me something to read and lets me know right away its off topic, to me thats fine... and the onus is on me as to what I want to do about it. > Free energy - please. While we still can. Well... theres an interesting comment.... ' While we still can....' meaning that we might not be able to soon? grin.... enjoyed your comments, regards, I'll sencond the motion 'Free energy. While we still can.' Don > > - Rick Monteverde, > Honolulu, HI -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 19 20:28:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA03426; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:28:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:28:10 -0800 Message-ID: <36F323B7.C97966D9@ghiocel.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:27:35 -0800 From: Dan Ghiocel Organization: Scott Electronic Services LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject: Coral Reefs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jkTRk3.0.Rr.QFoys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As yourself being a memeber of the free energy list, I am surprised by your harsh comments. If it is off subject, just leave it alone. Some times the skepticism is insulting. Unless you have an interest vested in your opinion, why do you stir this issues? Rick Monteverde wrote: > And that completely sad paranoid nonsense about US death camps and such has > no merit at all. Sick people think up some strange stuff, From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 00:24:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA05313; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:24:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:24:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F323B7.C97966D9@ghiocel.com> References: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:23:08 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Off subject: Coral Reefs Resent-Message-ID: <"Qe8iT3.0.sI1.5jrys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan - > If it is off subject, just leave it alone. LOL! So *I* shouldn't post on it then, but YOU CAN! Spoken like a true political liberal. Rules are for *others* to obey. ;) > Some times the skepticism is insulting. Skepticism is not inherently insulting. It is scientific, and this is a list devoted to largely scientific issues. I never use it to insult. Those who find it insulting may want to read up and think on the subject a bit so they don't misinterpret some of our postings here. Don Adams is an intelligent person who knows how to participate appropriately in these discussions, and we were doing just fine, thanks. He has made some good points and backed them with specific reports and numbers. I've been thinking of contacting a coral expert here I know casually to see what he thinks about the percentage of damage, if I can find his e-mail address. FYI, I'm not totally skeptical of the ideas that "free energy" as the physicists love to hate it isn't actually possible, nor that great environmental damage isn't underway, nor even that the government tries broadcasting or spraying things at us from time to time. But really off-topic psycho stuff like that other cross post about death camps is, besides a bit sad to see, inappropriate. I'm on the Blackvault list. I'd *never* think to complain about a post like that there! That's were things like that are discussed. If you like that kind of thing go subscribe, and I'll see you there. > Unless you > have an interest vested in your opinion, why do > you stir this issues? You suspect I have no vested interest in environmental issues, Dan? Nor political ones? Let's see...I'm breathing - check. I'm living in America under its Law - check. Looks like I got a valid license to vest an interest! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 00:45:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07507; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:45:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:45:36 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36F2F3BC.D45FB30@telusplanet.net> References: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:44:06 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Off subject: the Deep Fringe Resent-Message-ID: <"sYikH3.0.Cr1.m0sys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don - > I have come across information within the last > year that seems to inidcate something nasty is > afoot. In your own country there has been some > very odd things going on which are not simply > heresay but documented fact. It may be that you've > been unaware of some of these and are thus > commenting from a position which is more > comfortable to your worldview... I can't blame you > for that as all of us do that at different times and to > different degrees. There are always nasty things afoot in this and many other countries. And on the internet: * Racial, religious, political hate. * Paranoia from the apocalyptic Christian militia deep-fringe. * Anti-Scientology, anti-ufology, anti-anything-human-spirituality * Anti-fringe physics (yikes, they ARE after US too!) * Intense future anxiety - EOTWAWKI, Y2K, virus, meteor, Mayan calendar... * Simple psychotic nonsense of any 'other' category, laced with paranoia and hatred. As to "documented fact" - care to elaborate? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 01:29:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA11897; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:29:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:29:10 -0800 Message-ID: <36F34E66.5CE0D57B@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:29:42 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject: harvest time? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WrunP.0.ov2.cfsys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The Aging Of Humanity - Sleeping Giant Of A Problem By David Colton USA TODAY www.usatoday.com 3-19-99 In Japan, it is called rourei shakai, the elderly society, so old that one out of three will be 65 or older by 2025. In Europe, the populations of Italy, Spain and France are aging so rapidly that there aren't enough young workers to pay for the coming wave of old-age pensioners. And in Washington, a blue-ribbon commission has foundered after a year's effort to keep Medicare from going broke by 2008, just three years before the first of 77 million baby boomers become eligible for benefits. The graying of America and most of the world is both a medical miracle and a demographic time bomb. "Our nation has really not planned for an aging population," says Andrea Wooten, chief executive officer of Green Thumb, a nationwide employment service for older Americans. "We're living now to be 80 and 90 years old, and our whole idea of retirement and how we view older people is going to have to change." The extension of life is among the most dramatic achievements of the 20th century: Americans' life expectancy was less than 50 years in 1900, and only 4% of the population even reached 65. Life expectancy now is 76 years, and 12% are 65 or older. By 2025, one of 5 Americans - 62 million people, most of them baby boomers - will be 65 or older. Progress is so rapid that life expectancy could reach 80 or more in the next decade. Eighty-year-olds already are the fastest-growing age group. But every upward tick in life span has an even larger impact on society and the economy: the cost of prescription drugs, the solvency of Social Security, family structure, workplace patterns. Many worry that advances in science may outstrip society's ability to handle it all. "There are plenty of very serious people who believe we are on the edge of some very real longevity breakthroughs," says Peter Peterson, former presidential adviser, investment banker and author of Gray Dawn, which warns of global economic disaster from the world's accelerating age wave. "If something of that order of magnitude were to happen, if longevity were to go up, say, another 10 years, watch out!" As part of Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:29:35 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject: Coral Reefs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"akFp-1.0.5w2.dfsys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hey guys... lets just do our best, whatever our backgrounds to discuss the issues without ax grinding.... admittedly I have as tough a time as anyone... sometimes more I'm sure, but lets get along and focus on the issues and hopefully kick up some meaty data while we're at it! Invariably, Free energy and discussions thereof are often wont to mesh with other conversational topics... lets face it, for the average free thinker who isnt a physicist major, the real issue isnt just the mechanics or possiblities of 'how' but rather the conceptual framework of 'why'? For the relatively informed layperson, 'free energy' really equates to freedom itself. I'm not saying this isnt on the mind of the veteran researcher embroiled on a regular basis with hours spent every day and a dedicated budget to boot in a hands on, workbench approach... but to those of us who are amateurs, that dabble or who are new to the arena and even to those gifted eccentrics who play many parts of the field, the real driving force is, indeed freedom. And those who focus on freedom often think of and express concerns they have about perceived impingements of such. Heck, a Canadian should hardly have to tell any American that. Surely any American would know this by rote. I seriously doubt that the actual majority of those interested in free enrgy and those who support it and those who research it will ever be able to truly separate other related topics that overlap. And to my simple mind as long as it is within a balanced mix, this is as it should be, for me. Don - the deluded Canadian wannabe diplomat Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Dan - > > > If it is off subject, just leave it alone. > > LOL! So *I* shouldn't post on it then, but YOU CAN! Spoken like a true > political liberal. Rules are for *others* to obey. ;) > > > Some times the skepticism is insulting. > > Skepticism is not inherently insulting. It is scientific, and this is a > list devoted to largely scientific issues. I never use it to insult. Those > who find it insulting may want to read up and think on the subject a bit so > they don't misinterpret some of our postings here. Don Adams is an > intelligent person who knows how to participate appropriately in these > discussions, and we were doing just fine, thanks. He has made some good > points and backed them with specific reports and numbers. I've been > thinking of contacting a coral expert here I know casually to see what he > thinks about the percentage of damage, if I can find his e-mail address. > > FYI, I'm not totally skeptical of the ideas that "free energy" as the > physicists love to hate it isn't actually possible, nor that great > environmental damage isn't underway, nor even that the government tries > broadcasting or spraying things at us from time to time. But really > off-topic psycho stuff like that other cross post about death camps is, > besides a bit sad to see, inappropriate. I'm on the Blackvault list. I'd > *never* think to complain about a post like that there! That's were things > like that are discussed. If you like that kind of thing go subscribe, and > I'll see you there. > > > Unless you > > have an interest vested in your opinion, why do > > you stir this issues? > > You suspect I have no vested interest in environmental issues, Dan? Nor > political ones? Let's see...I'm breathing - check. I'm living in America > under its Law - check. Looks like I got a valid license to vest an interest! > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 01:29:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA12064; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:29:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:29:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36F34E6B.8E2CBEF@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:29:47 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject: Coral Reefs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ElL75.0.Ly2.vfsys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: the below article illustrates a peculiarity which is happening a fair bit of late in various states... War Games In Alabama - 'Tell Someone Next Time' Our Opinion The Anniston Star Online www.annistonstar.com 3-18-99 The Green Berets swooped in out of the darkness Friday night (3-12-99). Silent and deadly, they drifted down from the heavens on their silk parachutes, hitting the ground and scurrying to set up the defensive perimeter around that most strategic of positions: Anniston Municipal Airport. They fought bravely through the night, withstanding the jarring fake explosions and confusion of the darkness. They performed admirably and in the end captured the airport from a mythical enemy. Do we all feel safer after the Army's weekend war game in our area? Not only do we not feel safer, we feel just a little bit mad about the whole affair. How else to articulate the emotion elicited by an unannounced full-scale invasion of the airport by the 75th Ranger Regiment from Fort Benning and the 160th Special Operation Aviation Regiment from Fort Campbell? A good many people in Oxford heard explosions around 8 p.m. Friday and looked out their windows to see paratroopers gliding to earth. And most of them were enduring it all in the dark. Alabama Power, you see, cut the power for about two hours that night. The power company was cooperating with the Army, which had requested the power outage around the airport so that no paratroopers would be hurt by the live electrical lines. That's totally understandable. What is not is Alabama Power's failure in telling everyone about the power outage. For those folks left out in the dark, there was the unexpected power outage followed by the - for all they knew - real a full-scale invasion of the airport, by who knows who. The power company says it sent notices to the estimated 300 customers who would lose their power on a Friday evening. But some of those notices never reached the customers. Well, OK, so some were returned. But here is a very irksome thing: The Alabama Power notice declared that the power would be cut 'to perform work on the power lines.' Excuse us. What was that again? Work on the power lines? Standard notice, standard notice, Buddy Eiland, Alabama Power's spokesman explains. Anytime there is a power cut the same notice goes out, evidently. That's a real hoot. The power company doesn't have a problem delivering the power bill to everybody who deserves one, nor do they have any trouble putting a different name on each bill. Heck they even send a fellow around to your house every month to have a look-see at your meter just so they will know how much money you own them. But the company can't send out a notice that tells you what all the commotion at the airport is going to be about on Friday night. The Army says it alerted the area about the exercises that also took place at Fort McClellan. Hershal Chapman, Fort McClellan's public affairs spokesman, says a press release went out to media outlets telling of the exercise. You are so right Mr. Chapman, but that notice failed to mention anything about the airport or that the power would be offed. The Army and Alabama Power have some apologizing and some explaining to do to this community. The Anniston Municipal Airport belongs to this community, it is not part of some vast federal government holding that the powers that be can do with as they please. If you are going to play soldiers in our yard, you ought to invite us to play. Or, take your guns and parachutes and go home. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 01:32:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14196; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:32:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:32:31 -0800 Message-ID: <36F34F24.788528EF@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:32:52 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject: the Deep Fringe References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AoV_02.0.jT3.lisys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hi Rick... well I can sense that pivotal moment where we are about to lose our footing from sheer eccentric speculations about the nature of nature and begin to plunge off into those wacky arcane nooks and crannies that lunatics, seers, stoners, gifted savantes, etc.. etc.. love to explore... some one stop the madness... whoop! whoop! ~8*) Rick Monteverde wrote: > > There are always nasty things afoot in this and many other countries. > And on the internet: > > * Racial, religious, political hate. > * Paranoia from the apocalyptic Christian militia deep-fringe. > * Anti-Scientology, anti-ufology, anti-anything-human-spirituality > * Anti-fringe physics (yikes, they ARE after US too!) > * Intense future anxiety - EOTWAWKI, Y2K, virus, meteor, Mayan calendar... > * Simple psychotic nonsense of any 'other' category, laced > with paranoia and hatred. > > As to "documented fact" - care to elaborate? hey, y'know I totally hear ya on this one Rick... fact is nasty things happen through out history and we could spend the rest of our lives finding some new wacky theory to scare ourselves with. Hell, that used to be a past time for me... what new morose and outrageous item can I dig up today to shock my friends with... sometimes it got me attention and once in a while I was the yarn teller at parties, friends would ask what new shocker I had for them. Well that got pretty old for me after a while, in my line of work it was horribly easy to dredge up information on just about anything I wanted... in fact I came up with all sorts of ways to even absorb all this stuff faster.... My real dilemma now, is that I've decided I want more of a life, I've stopped focusing so much time on the crap and how theres so much bad news on the horizon and I've done a major change in my outlook and how I live day to day. I'm healthier, happier, luckier and my focus is more on things I enjoy and that fulfill me rather than things that bring me down. I no longer get a twisted thrill from being miserable. Whew, and what a relief that is! I'm probably starting to spend too much time online again.... the time it took to just write these last few letters on this cursed machine that I have to work on every day... well I could have been out partying tonite!!!ARgg,,, I think maybe I should absent myself on a little sabbatical again.... get off the system and back to enjoying my life away from the computer. Don't get me wrong I love chatting with you folks online, I learn tons and genuinely enjoy and look forward to some of the great and meaningful dialogue that can happen here in electronic lala land, but lets face it life beyond the computer screen is so much more enjoyable! grin. Only problem is, I am still pretty damn certain that enough of the stuff I've come across was for real. This means that regardless of how I may have decided to go off on my happy, merry little way... its still likely gonna hit the fan. Which sucks, just as I really start getting it together too. You asked for facts... yeah, sure, I could go through the 150 MBs on my drive dedicated to the 'strange and Damned facts' and pull enough weirdness backed by data to give you a gore fest that would possibly satisfy even someone with as sharp and discerning a mind as yours. But the real question is, what difference would that make to you or me in the long run? Do I really want to spend the time to yank out the big guns I keep hidden to try to convince yet another skeptic? It almost always boils down to the phrase 'a man conviced against his will, remains unconvinced still' anyways. Besides, what value is that to me in the long run? Or you? So what if I managed to put even on tidbit out of many on your plate that you were sufficiently pleased with? That passed your criteria or scrutiny? What would you do with it? What could you do with it? Ultimately the same as me I suspect... show it around to people that you knew, get some mix of responses, get bored, tired or too obsessed or upset about it and then eventually shelve it and try and forget about it for a time.... until you decided it was time to take it out again for show or to just get rid of it and ignore it like some bad luck charm. You obviously don't need me to prove anything to you, you sound like you're well informed about enough areas to either have your own answers or locate the resources to hunt many of them down yourself. What I'd say is that if you prepare for the worst and hope for the best you'll be on the right track, but I'm sure you already know that. In my subjective opinion, I figure any person would be even further still if they applied a good dose of Pascal's Wager to their life. But these are just the ramblings of a crazy Canuck with a closet full of paranoid conspiracy stories...grin. Ssssshhhhh... I think theres someone knocking on my door! ;) > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 01:48:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA17406; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:48:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:48:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36F352DE.5F515C46@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:48:46 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: scalar / tesla shield in action? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9InOY.0.tF4.mxsys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have a neat animated gif and html I yanked just recently, about 3 months ago off of hoaglands site... was going to post it but its 600 KB, and I'm assuming thats a no, no here. Still though it looks neat! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 01:54:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA18904; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:54:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:54:19 -0800 Message-ID: <36F3544C.FC3F14BA@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:54:52 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tesla Shield text References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kAFQH3.0.Hd4.B1tys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The GIF for this is REALLY something to see.... tres cool! --------------snip from www.enterprisemission.com----------------- BEST VIEWED AT 800X600.... LARGE ANIMATION DOWNLOADING... PLEASE BE PATIENT NOVEMBER 17, 1998 MASSIVE LEONID "METEOR"? EXPLODES ABOVE EVERGLADES @ 5:00AM EST 4 WITNESSES EXPERIENCE BRIGHT LIGHT AND STRIATIONS OF LIGHT IN A NEAR CLOUDLESS SKY On November 16th I organized a few of my friends and anyone else who wanted to come along to the center of the everglades for an overnight campout and to witness the Leonid meteor shower. Three of my friends showed and we all brought lawnchairs and binoculars. We watched from the suggested times of 2:00am EST. -- 6:00am EST. We were actually dissapointed at the show, nothing nearly as spectacular as what was hyped. So around 5:00am we pack up our lawn chairs and headed to our huts back at the campground. Out of nowhere this huge streak appears above our heads seemingly very close based on the size, and a bright almost instantaneous flash of white light envelops our entire field of vision. What impressed me so much was the level of light when it exploded? or burst above our heads. The flash lit the entire area as if stadium lights at full blast were turned on for a split second. I had never witnessed anything so spectacular in my life. We were all excited jumping around pointing at the green trail of pixie dust that was left lingering in the air for about 30 seconds or so, when another incredible thing happened. Now before I explain it I should mention that it was a fairly cloudless night. Any clouds that were visible were scattered and whispy at around 10,000 to 13,000 feet would be my guess. We could also see horizon to horizon with the exception of the treeline facing us. At the time this burst happened there was complete clear sky above our heads. We were even commenting on how it appeared that a whole opened above our heads. One of my friends has practiced "cloud busting" in the past and was taking credit for the phenomenon. So we all joined in in the fun possibility of that subject because in fact we had practiced it earlier while looking for meteors, and it did seem to work! Then the second phenomenal event took place. Now if I remember correctly the sky at this point was 75-85% clear of any clouds at all. >From horizon to horizon in the clear thin air,....... these white lines almost completely straight faded in to view and were moving in a linear pattern above our heads from North to South they got brighter too. These lines were HUGE I mean as if we were tiny fish under the water and we were witnissing this sort of wake or water ripples above our heads. They had this brightness and a tubular look, like a spotlight beam, only linear in shape not conical. They were running parallel to the Earths surface, East to West. We kept asking out loud "What the Hell is THAT?" None of us could figure it out. It looked a little like pictures I had seen on T.V. and in books of the Aurora Borealis but these lines appeared to be perfectly linear and grayish white not organic and colorful like previously documented. These lines were moving at incredible speed. They were going 1,000's of miles per hour not 100's. They were somewhere between the cloud layer that was somewhat visible and the Earth, I couldn't tell what altitude. They lasted for about 30 seconds then just simply faded away! We basically came to the conclusion that what we witnessed was the electromagnetic properties of the atmosphere reacting to the meteor as it hit creating a shockwave of sorts. I'm not so sure anymore. I have been following this ELF radar anomalies that Richard Hoagland from the Enterprise Mission and others have been studying and it just hit me! What we saw could very well have been a grounds eye perspective of this exact same phenomena! http://www.enterprisemission.com/truth1.htm I am an Animation/Designer and I do broadcast television and print design work. So I figured rather than just tell people about it I would re-enact the event visually as best I could. It is really darn close except for the timing/speed. There isn't much control of animated gif's on the net so I will break down the timings for you in writing. Again these are approximate based on my recollection. Meteor / ELF Burst Timings ______________________ 1-2 Seconds of meteor flying above our heads 1/2 Second of burst or explosion (Similar to a camera flashbulb only much brighter) 20-30 Seconds of green pixie dust from meteor tail falling to earth and fading away 20-30 Seconds of linear light striations passing over us then fading away So there you have it...... Well there was one other thing. After Ooohhing and Aaahhing at our experience for about 10 minutes after the striations....... Three of us witnessed a very bright star just above the treeline start to change into bright colors and squiggle around in very sparatic movements. It stayed relatively confined to small jerky movements but would then sometimes jump a greater distance then slowly drift back and forth. We watched it do this for about 35-40 minutes and it kept doing the same thing over and over again. We actually got bored of watching it and were tired so we went to bed around 6:00am EST. UFO's are old news anyway. Possible ELF magnet pulses reflecting/destroying incoming objects.... Well this definitely is getting weird! This particular evening dished out a lot more than any of us expected. But then again who's to say this doesn't happen every night? How often do we take the time to purposefully sit up all night look at the stars until 6:00am? This was my 1st time and it yielded spectacular results. If there really is more going on in our skies than we are being told, this was proof for me. There is a wealth of knowledge out there and our lives will soon be affected by what we do and don't know. I for one support and applaud the men and women who are risking their reputations, jobs and even thier lives to reveal the details behind these bizarre events. I can only offer my single personal experience and gift for rendering it as acurately as possible for you all to see. I hope it is of use for the cause we all want to stand for. THE TRUTH. Steve. Jan 5, 1999 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 05:14:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA30887; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:14:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:14:11 -0800 Message-ID: <36F39F07.905CE5B1@ghiocel.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:13:43 -0800 From: Dan Ghiocel Organization: Scott Electronic Services LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject: Coral Reefs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3kpom3.0.SY7.Yyvys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick, Thank you for your response, but apparently we are talking about different issues: I was responding to the US death camp posting, not to the corral reef situation. I thought this was clear since I posted part of your comments in my reply. I am not well informed about the corral reef situation, so I would not comment on it. Regarding the skepticism issue, of course is not inherently insulting. I just think we should minimize the use of strong adjectives when refering to somebody else's comments or ideas. I think that can be constructed as insulting. I think the person who posted the information had all good intentions. Regards, Dan G. Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Dan - > > > If it is off subject, just leave it alone. > > LOL! So *I* shouldn't post on it then, but YOU CAN! Spoken like a true > political liberal. Rules are for *others* to obey. ;) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 05:35:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01283; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:35:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:35:11 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:34:44 -0700 (MST) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca Reply-To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Alcohol: DIY fuel (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"T-5ar.0.yJ.FGwys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Colleagues: If anyone has information on the attached, please forward to both the list and to this gentleman. Has anyone got actual experience? Jorg Ostrowski ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:25:34 EST From: UNIR2B1NM@aol.com To: UNIR2B1NM@aol.com Subject: Alcohol: DIY fuel Hello, Friends-- Perhaps the best DIY fuel is ALCOHOL from almost any biomass. I've heard that unlike fossil fuels, alcohol never yeilds CO, only CO2, and can therefore be used for indoor heating with minimal ventilation like "non-vented" or infra- red type propane heaters. It can replace gasoline in engines, and I'm curious as to its suitability for other liquid fuel applications (lanterns would be nice). If you can, please help me find Robert Warren, who was affiliated with the CA Alcohol Fuel Producers' Assn and the now-defunct UtilityFree solar co. He innovated a 5 gal/hr still made of 4" copper tubing in a 5' tall inverted "U" configuration. --Russ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 05:50:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA03553; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:49:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:49:53 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:41:18 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off subject: the Deep Fringe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hl3fJ3.0.Lt.0Uwys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: y Rick.... What is EWOWKI ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 20 11:30:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA08936; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:29:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:29:59 -0800 Message-ID: <19990320193018.243.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:30:18 -0800 (PST) From: Anton Rager Subject: Geocities and pop-up banners hacking To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"DbUbG1.0.XB2.tS_ys"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9415 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: While this seems to be politically incorrect -- it is quite easy to disable geocities pop-ups. Here's how I've dealt with it. Insert the following tags at the end of your HTML document [make sure the geocities pop-up tags aren't already there] for the