From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 04:42:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA30409; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 04:42:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 04:42:30 -0800 Sender: jack@pop.centurytel.net Message-ID: <38E5FCF9.532D072@mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 13:43:21 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Winter References: <38E58E0D.1832BD73@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"71cPq.0.2R7.swUvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: I'm afraid windmills are also out of the question. I'm looking for a neat little self contained gadget, about shoe-box size. ;) Hi Robin, How about a Shipstone? I've heard they use K+ as a catalyst and that small box filled with H2 will run for about 6 months. Happy April 1st, Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 09:19:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA07488; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 09:19:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 09:19:23 -0800 Message-ID: <38E62F93.43F00012@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 12:19:16 -0500 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor References: <001901bf9ba0$1de9d6c0$1da270d1@markross> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------46F846F27FAFE836F5AC79BE" Resent-Message-ID: <"oBdlP.0.oq1.Q-Yvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------46F846F27FAFE836F5AC79BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this motor OVERUNITY ? sparky wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sparky > To: Say What is On your Mind!Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 11:07 > AMSubject: Bedini Science Fair Motor > Say What is On your Mind!I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is > still running. I used a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack.For the > rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" > round magnets in the rotor, just drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. > I used a coil from a small motor used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns > of fine mag wire on top of the coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs > at about 700-1000 RPM. It is turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy2-unsubscribe@listbot.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com --------------46F846F27FAFE836F5AC79BE Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this motor OVERUNITY ?
 
 

sparky wrote:

 
----- Original Message -----
From: sparky
To: Say What is On your Mind!Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 11:07 AMSubject: Bedini Science Fair Motor
 Say What is On your Mind!I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets.  I used a coil from a small motor used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v.
To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy2-unsubscribe@listbot.com
______________________________________________________________________
Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com
--------------46F846F27FAFE836F5AC79BE-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 10:45:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31546; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:45:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:45:12 -0800 Message-ID: <002301bf9c0a$1394fb40$a4d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <14.2129af4.26160f95@aol.com> Subject: Re: Air powered engine (slightly off-topic) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:42:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"IqejP1.0.mi7.tEavu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It was adopted...sort of. I'm reffering to hydrolics. I believe hydrolics were first used in an organ invented by some Greek guy, Hero maybe. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 9:26 AM Subject: Air powered engine (slightly off-topic) > Has anyone seen the latest issue of the Lindsay Books catalog? Its got a > brief blurb about a 1897 locomotive powered by compressed air. Anyone know > anything about it? Would be interesting to find out why the technology was > never widely adopted. Thanks, > Brian Drake > (Bmd2323@aol.com) > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 10:47:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32507; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:47:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:47:44 -0800 Message-ID: <002d01bf9c0a$6d8c9900$a4d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <005001bf9a6d$2e17fce0$0a00a8c0@skot.emeraldnet.net> <38E4C146.AB462D8F@dove.net.au> Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:45:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"xq4HC3.0.hx7.FHavu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I believe your reffering to the steel cans that they use for...'canning' food. ----- Original Message ----- From: gsawyer To: Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor > This may seem like a damm silly question, but are the > common "tin cans" actually tin ? > > For the costs I have been seeing, if my supermarket is giving > me that much tin for "free" with every 1/2 Kilo of Beans that > I buy - something is wrong! > > Just an indication from someone as to the relative percentage > content of the metals that are used in "tins" would be appreciated. > > Thank you. > > Glenville. > > > P.S Hope this doesn't open a "can of worms" :-) - Groan. > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Glenville T. Sawyer > > Alternative Energy Experimenter: http://www.gsawyer.mtx.net > Located at Kapunda, in South Australia's Historical Corridor. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 10:54:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA01636; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:54:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:54:24 -0800 Message-ID: <003301bf9c0b$5c4592e0$a4d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: <20000331.104337.-405029.1.tgrimes1@juno.com> Subject: Re: Aluminum Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:51:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"MABWa1.0.SP.VNavu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I new most of the stuff from experience (I even blew some things up, unintentionally). And I've done so many nifty experimnets with the stuff I have residue and white crust all over my workbench (well. not ALL over it). I had no idea that it produced ammonia though (even though I was almost asphixiated by surprise in my garage once). ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Aluminum > Chris O'Barr wrote: > > Does anyone know of a practical use of the aluminum-sodium hydroxide > (or potassium hydroxide) reaction for >producing energy? I don't see why > an electrical cell couldn't be made. Are there any other ideas? > > The reaction between Al and NaOH (aq) is exothermic and produces H2 by > the equation 2 Al (s) + 6 NaOH (aq) + 6 H2O (l) ---> 2 Al(OH)3 (s) + 6 > NaOH (aq) + 3 H2 (g). If you take a room-temperature solution (not too > dilute, around 2 M is fine) of sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and put a piece of > aliminum in it bubbles of H2 appear almost immediately. The reaction > procedes slowly at first, but speeds up as the solution is heated by the > reaction. This reaction, in a hot solution, procedes very rapidly, > enough that the solution appears to be boiling and will fill a balloon > very quickly. > > Although this reaction produces Al(OH)3, an insoluble compound, Al(OH)3 > reacts with NaOH to form NaAl(OH)4, which is soluble. From experiments I > have performed, the NaAl(OH)4 is capable of donating NaOH to the reaction > above, though releasing less energy and precipitating Al(OH)3 as a white > solid. In other words, the NaOH acts very much like a catalyst, rather > than a reagent. > > Another interesting thing about this reaction is that it seems to > produce a detectable amount, though small, of ammonia, NH3, when it is > running rapidly. I found that when the reaction was running as fast as I > could get it, some sort of vapor is released that has a faint odor of > ammonia. A paper towel soaked in red cabbage juice indicator turns blue > when the vapor passes over it. > > Once H2 is formed, it can be used in fuel cells, combustion chambers, > etc. just as it would be from any other source. As "Albert CAU" > mentioned, it takes a lot of energy to produce aluminum metal in the > first place. So the reaction above is certainly not a source of free > energy, though it may seem so if you weren't the one to invest the energy > in the first place. > > -Tom Grimes > > mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 11:05:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05646; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:05:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:05:23 -0800 Message-ID: <003d01bf9c0c$e58e1da0$a4d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: Subject: Re: COOOOOL java-based simulation Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:02:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"SChTs1.0.2O1.pXavu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Whoa, that things pretty cool... ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 5:29 PM Subject: COOOOOL java-based simulation > > See "constructor" below. A tinkertoy set.... that's ALIVE!!!!!! > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:57:28 -0500 > From: Joseph Bellina > Reply-To: "phys-l@lists.nau.edu: Forum for Physics Educators" > > To: PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu > Subject: Some fun > > Take a look at the web-site...its clever. > > http://www.soda.co.uk/soda/constructor/ > > have a nice weekend > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 11:39:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13415; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:38:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:38:50 -0800 Message-ID: <20000401193813.82073.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.225.179] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tin from the can... Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 11:38:13 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"hJl_i1.0.UH3.81bvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The simple tin can... Tin is/was used as a plating for rust proofing a steel container much like zinc in used on nails...Most modern cans use plastic to achieve this... The amount of tin used is vary small... Recovering tin from this source would be like recovering gold from a old bible... Timothy... And "silly" yes!!! But I asked this question once too... Even a good education is not all exclusive :o) > This may seem like a damm silly question, but are the >common "tin cans" actually tin ? > > For the costs I have been seeing, if my supermarket is giving >me that much tin for "free" with every 1/2 Kilo of Beans that >I buy - something is wrong! > > Just an indication from someone as to the relative percentage >content of the metals that are used in "tins" would be appreciated. > > Thank you. > > Glenville. > > >P.S Hope this doesn't open a "can of worms" :-) - Groan. > >--------------------------------------------------------------- >Glenville T. Sawyer > >Alternative Energy Experimenter: http://www.gsawyer.mtx.net >Located at Kapunda, in South Australia's Historical Corridor. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 12:03:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19109; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:03:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:03:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:03:06 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? In-Reply-To: <004501bf9be7$50dd6320$c7451d26@fjsparber> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2G2kN3.0.Ug4.1Obvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm curious. How much money did Greg Watson score with his SMOT offer? Did ANYBODY obtain refunds? And for those who lost money, did you ever ask for a refund? (Not that this makes much difference, since a person of any integrity would have supplied a refund, asked or not.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 12:23:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23670; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:22:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:22:50 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01bf9c19$82d3d760$7aa270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <001901bf9ba0$1de9d6c0$1da270d1@markross> <38E62F93.43F00012@microtec.net> Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:31:32 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF9BCD.D43AFDA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"ljxt33.0.ln5.Qgbvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF9BCD.D43AFDA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please go to: http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/bedmot.htm and: http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/ The Science Fair Motor may be overunity with the two battery = system. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: patrick tremblay=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 8:19 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor Is this motor OVERUNITY ?=20 =20 =20 sparky wrote:=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: sparky To: Say What is On your Mind!Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 11:07 = AMSubject: Bedini Science Fair Motor Say What is On your Mind!I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is = still running. I used a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor = I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round = magnets in the rotor, just drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used = a coil from a small motor used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine = mag wire on top of the coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about = 700-1000 RPM. It is turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy2-unsubscribe@listbot.com=20 = ______________________________________________________________________=20 Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF9BCD.D43AFDA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please go to:
    http://www.keelynet.co= m/bedmot/bedmot.htm
and:
    http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/
        The Science = Fair Motor=20 may be overunity with the two battery system.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 patrick=20 tremblay
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 = 8:19=20 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science = Fair=20 Motor

Is this motor OVERUNITY ?
 
 =20

sparky wrote:=20

 =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: = sparky
To: Say What is=20 On your Mind!Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 11:07 = AMSubject:=20 Bedini Science Fair Motor
 Say What is On your Mind!I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. = I used=20 a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" = plug cut=20 from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, = just=20 drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets.  I used a coil from a = small motor=20 used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the = coil=20 instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is = turning a 6"=20 fan at .0015 amp. 9 v.=20
To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy2-unsubscribe@listbot.com=20 =
_____________________________________________________________________= _=20
Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF9BCD.D43AFDA0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 12:35:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27451; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:35:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:35:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:35:33 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR "SELF-PROMOTION" In-Reply-To: <007501bf990f$aa840080$ea9910cf@drosigno> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lo2_u.0.hi6.Psbvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, David Rosignoli wrote: > I don't have a lot of time to scan the magazines, the web, > newsgroups,... to find all the weird science devices. In fact, one > reason I subscribe to this list is to stay abreast of what currently > exists in this 'field'. True, it is a hobbyist forum. However, in this > case these devices are so novel, and potentially ground-breaking in one > way or another, spreading useful advertising is warranted. No, not "advertizing", but SELF-PROMOTION. If you tell me about the SAS "Amateur Scientist" CD, that's fine. However, if the marketer for SAS comes here and starts pushing that CD, it's self-promotion. That person is using FREENRG-L as an advertizing channel without our permission, and without supporting this service by paying for ad-space. It's a type of dishonesty, even theft. (Not that I'm ever going to start selling ad-space here!) In other words, suppose we say it OK to use FREENRG-L to tell about products, but only if the person sending the message makes no profits by it? That is typical nettique standards. I'd like to make it a "LAW" here. If I tell you where to get ceramic magnets, that is not self-promotion. If Greg Watson sells fully-built "SMOT" devices, then that *IS* self-promotion. If he never delievers, nor offers refunds, then that is fraud besides. If I tell you where to get tin foil, that is not self-promotion. If I offer to sell you plans for a secret FE device which can power your home or car, then that is self-promotion. If those plans are fake, and no such device has ever been built nor has ever powered even a flashlight bulb, then that is fraud besides. My intention is to eliminate FREENRG-L as a channel for greed and FE fraud. Or as the sellers of fraudulent FE plans and devices might say, eliminate it as an "opportunity for making a living." If their devices are real, tell us how to make one and we will verify it. Or go submit it to Scott Little for professional analysis. Or go out and win several thousand dollars from the various "Free Energy Prize" organizations. But do not try to extract money from the wallets of "gullible marks" on FREENRG-L. Since a F/E device might be real, I don't want to keep everyone from knowning about it. But if the INVENTOR of that device wants to SELL it to us, without first proving that his claim is true, and while not giving refunds to angry customers, then that is a VERY different situation. For more on fraudulent F/E plans sales, see: F/E F.A.Q.: "But PLANS for working F/E devices are for sale!" http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/fefaq.html#plans ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 12:51:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA31682; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:50:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:50:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:50:46 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? In-Reply-To: <01BF990A.4841D5A0@istf-1-27.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jJw4E2.0.xk7.k4cvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Dan Quickert wrote: > I agree completely with the above statement. And, despite its ultimate > end result, I think the original SMOT kit offering fit into that, or at > least would have if it were a genuine offer... because that was a > project in which many people were actively engaged, it was > experimentally testable, had no secret ingredients, and the promise > (originally) was merely for a kit of like parts for replication. Yep, but the Greg Watson thing wasn't totally above-board. Watson claimed that his device ran for hours, but he had zero desire to mail out a video. Proof would have been simple. He may have been half-honest, and lying about his success, while hoping that someone else would make a genuine breakthrough. If so, then his sales of "working" SMOT devices was pure fraud. He said they worked. If they did NOT work, and he claimed that he was just trying to get the bugs out, then he was lying. > Bill asked specifically for comments about "commercial self-promotion". > That term could be interpreted simply, as in advertising; but I'd like > to address the "self-promotion" part of it. We have seen in the recent > past several cases where an individual has presented a product or an > idea, but either does not want to divulge how it is done, or does not > want to discuss its merits - it is merely presented to us as a wondrous > thing and we'd better really like it or we're a bunch of Big Science > flacks. Exactly. If a product is merely a way to make money, and does not do what is claimed, then that is FRAUD, period. That goes for sales of plans too, if the claim is made that the device in the plans has been verified to work (and, as the fraudulent sellers of expensive fake FE plans always say, "you can run your home or car on this genuine free energy device!") > Part of the problem is in frequency -- a little bit from someone isn't > too bad, but when it goes on and on, it's obnoxious. A little bit of fraud is intolerable, but until recently I didn't see an easy way to exclude it without excluding honest research. My solution: a total ban on SELF-promotion. If an inventor wants to prove his claims, OK, but if he wants to use FREENRG-L to drum up funding or to sell his invention, too bad, the ANTI-FRAUD, ANTI-SELF-PROMOTION rules will not allow it. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 13:00:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02410; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:00:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:00:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:00:19 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? In-Reply-To: <38E1F5AE.F80@cyberportal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oJMg-.0.Kb.gDcvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > Until the day > comes were I do not have to worry about funding then certain things > must remain a trade-secret to raise funds. Is this too big of a > contribution to ask from my peers? Keeping secrets has nothing to do with science, and everything to do with making a living. Unfortunately these two are in competition. The need to make a living will corrupt science with needless secrecy. The need to "do science" will expose inventors to idea-theft. And also, secrecy allows the scammers to rip off everybody. The solution for FREENRG-L? Easy: make a decision. Decide for or against science. I am decidedly anti-scammer and pro-science, and if inventors need to make a living, then they can go elsewhere, since their need will blatently interfere with the doing of science and the halting of fraud. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 13:05:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03993; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:05:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:05:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:05:29 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor In-Reply-To: <001901bf9ba0$1de9d6c0$1da270d1@markross> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Oi_3o1.0.I-.UIcvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, sparky wrote: > I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used a2n3055 > Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from > a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just > drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor > used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the > coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is > turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. How long SHOULD it run, considering the size of the batteries? If it SHOULD run for (say) ten days, then two days is meaningless. Twenty days would be interesting, but not proof, since the total energy in a battery is not well defined. Replace the batteries with a supercapacitor? The energy in a capacitor is VERY well defined. But if the F/E effect involves the chemistry at the battery plates, then capacitors cannot be used. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 13:25:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07284; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:24:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:24:40 -0800 Message-ID: <004501bf9c20$b091e0a0$13b57ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:24:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"iSKui1.0.jn1.Nacvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, April 01, 2000 11:55 AM Subject: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? >I'm curious. How much money did Greg Watson score with his SMOT offer? >Did ANYBODY obtain refunds? And for those who lost money, did you ever >ask for a refund? (Not that this makes much difference, since a person of >any integrity would have supplied a refund, asked or not.) I did not get a refund, and said he could keep my $125. This was cheap, as I spent much more on buying magnets anyway. I had a good time building the different designs, none of which worked as claimed. What I also found disturbing was the fact that he said he had a working unit, but never produced a photo of it operating. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 13:49:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12733; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:49:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:49:37 -0800 Message-ID: <006801bf9c24$2e7c0a60$13b57ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 13:49:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DriyV1.0.s63.nxcvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' Date: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:47 PM Subject: RE: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? >>> >A little bit of fraud is intolerable, but until recently I didn't see an >easy way to exclude it without excluding honest research. My solution: a >total ban on SELF-promotion. If an inventor wants to prove his claims, >OK, but if he wants to use FREENRG-L to drum up funding or to sell his >invention, too bad, the ANTI-FRAUD, ANTI-SELF-PROMOTION rules will not >allow it. Yes, I believe this will limit the false claims and save all of us time and money. Thank you. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 15:56:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA11502; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 15:56:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 15:56:21 -0800 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:55:53 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <001901bf9ba0$1de9d6c0$1da270d1@markross> <38E62F93.43F00012@microtec.net> <000f01bf9c19$82d3d760$7aa270d1@markross> In-Reply-To: <000f01bf9c19$82d3d760$7aa270d1@markross> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA11469 Resent-Message-ID: <"trlYy.0.Yp2.aoevu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:31:32 -0900, sparky wrote: >Please go to: > http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/bedmot.htm >and: > http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/ [snip] I note from the above that John uses cut welding rods as the core of the coil. If these are thoriated rods, then he appears to have constructed another version of "nuclear battery" in the coil. See e.g. US4835433. This may explain the source of any extra energy. It might be interesting to measure the level of radioactivity at the coil, while the motor is in operation, and when it isn't. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 16:12:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16647; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:12:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:12:18 -0800 Message-ID: <38E6907B.16A4@cyberportal.net> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:12:43 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, nuenergy2@listbot.com Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR "SELF-PROMOTION" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"92Ws73.0.-34.Y1fvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill, I do not like what is being implied here. Do us both a favor and unsubscribe me to your list. Jerry Decker sent you an email this week and it had implied that I had taken over your list. I guess his seed of doubt that he planted has worked. Do us both a favor and unsubscribe me to your list. I do not deserve this type of disrespect from anyone. By the way... I offer a thirty day unconditional money back gaurantee on all of my products. Contact info: Website: http://www.nuenergy.org email: mailto:nuenergy@cyberportal.net list subscription: http://nuenergy.listbot.com/ -Bruce A. Perreault P.S. Please unsubscribe me. > > There is a failure of communication here. "Public domain" means "owned by > the public". Those patents were always in the ownership of the public, > whether or not the public new they existed, or had any access to them. > Nothing you did changed their ownership status. > > If you state that they are not in the public domain, you might cause > yourself some trouble, because people might take you for a liar or fool, > or as someone who is trying to claim ownership of public property. In > reality I think you simply misunderstand what the term "public domain" > means. Those patents were not known, or easily found, but they were, and > are, in the public domain. No matter how the cookie crumbles here I have been once again deprived of deserved credit. Jerry and Fred took the fruits of my labor and took credit for the contribution. I have many more gifts to share with human kind that are new discoveries. However... this situation leaves a bitter feeling and I am having second thoughts of sharing anything more. What does it matter if these patents are "public domain?" It is a matter of ethics. -Bruce A. Perreault William Beaty wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, David Rosignoli wrote: > > > I don't have a lot of time to scan the magazines, the web, > > newsgroups,... to find all the weird science devices. In fact, one > > reason I subscribe to this list is to stay abreast of what currently > > exists in this 'field'. True, it is a hobbyist forum. However, in this > > case these devices are so novel, and potentially ground-breaking in one > > way or another, spreading useful advertising is warranted. > > No, not "advertizing", but SELF-PROMOTION. If you tell me about the SAS > "Amateur Scientist" CD, that's fine. However, if the marketer for SAS > comes here and starts pushing that CD, it's self-promotion. That person > is using FREENRG-L as an advertizing channel without our permission, and > without supporting this service by paying for ad-space. It's a type of > dishonesty, even theft. (Not that I'm ever going to start selling > ad-space here!) > > In other words, suppose we say it OK to use FREENRG-L to tell about > products, but only if the person sending the message makes no profits by > it? That is typical nettique standards. I'd like to make it a "LAW" here. > > If I tell you where to get ceramic magnets, that is not self-promotion. > If Greg Watson sells fully-built "SMOT" devices, then that *IS* > self-promotion. If he never delievers, nor offers refunds, then that is > fraud besides. > > If I tell you where to get tin foil, that is not self-promotion. If I > offer to sell you plans for a secret FE device which can power your home > or car, then that is self-promotion. If those plans are fake, and no such > device has ever been built nor has ever powered even a flashlight bulb, > then that is fraud besides. > > My intention is to eliminate FREENRG-L as a channel for greed and FE > fraud. Or as the sellers of fraudulent FE plans and devices might say, > eliminate it as an "opportunity for making a living." If their devices > are real, tell us how to make one and we will verify it. Or go submit it > to Scott Little for professional analysis. Or go out and win several > thousand dollars from the various "Free Energy Prize" organizations. But > do not try to extract money from the wallets of "gullible marks" on > FREENRG-L. > > Since a F/E device might be real, I don't want to keep everyone from > knowning about it. But if the INVENTOR of that device wants to SELL it to > us, without first proving that his claim is true, and while not giving > refunds to angry customers, then that is a VERY different situation. > > For more on fraudulent F/E plans sales, see: > > F/E F.A.Q.: "But PLANS for working F/E devices are for sale!" On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > Until the day > comes were I do not have to worry about funding then certain things > must remain a trade-secret to raise funds. Is this too big of a > contribution to ask from my peers? Keeping secrets has nothing to do with science, and everything to do with making a living. Unfortunately these two are in competition. The need to make a living will corrupt science with needless secrecy. The need to "do science" will expose inventors to idea-theft. And also, secrecy allows the scammers to rip off everybody. The solution for FREENRG-L? Easy: make a decision. Decide for or against science. I am decidedly anti-scammer and pro-science, and if inventors need to make a living, then they can go elsewhere, since their need will blatently interfere with the doing of science and the halting of fraud. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 16:31:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23332; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:31:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:31:19 -0800 Message-ID: <002701bf9c3c$2cbb33a0$d4a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 15:40:33 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"3duxP.0.Ti5.MJfvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This motor is not overunity as I built it .It is just very efficient and kind of novel and fun. Bidini does have some that may be OverUnity and involves the chemistry of the battery plates. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, sparky wrote: > > > I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used a2n3055 > > Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from > > a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just > > drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor > > used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the > > coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is > > turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. > > How long SHOULD it run, considering the size of the batteries? If it > SHOULD run for (say) ten days, then two days is meaningless. Twenty days > would be interesting, but not proof, since the total energy in a battery > is not well defined. Replace the batteries with a supercapacitor? The > energy in a capacitor is VERY well defined. But if the F/E effect > involves the chemistry at the battery plates, then capacitors cannot be > used. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 17:22:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01997; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:21:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:21:53 -0800 Message-ID: <000701bf9c43$42325540$5d6bd9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: References: <002701bf9c3c$2cbb33a0$d4a270d1@markross> Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:31:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"oNwK-1.0.6V.m2gvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, Good job Sparky.. at least you are experimenting. You never claimed overunity. Plus you are replicating a motor as I did. NOBODY is claiming overunity. At least some of us try...not setting back in the easy chair saying..that wont work..or do this, or that you are not testing it correctly. All experimenters do is report that the motor or whatever it may be, is performing beyound expectations. Some of you fellows need to get your hands dirty.. Of course you have done it and are past that.. So I'll get back to work..Regards, Robert H. Calloway.----- Original Message ----- From: sparky To: Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 6:40 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > This motor is not overunity as I built it .It is just very efficient and > kind of novel and fun. Bidini does have some that may be OverUnity and > involves the chemistry of the battery plates. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Beaty" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:05 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > > > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, sparky wrote: > > > > > I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used a2n3055 > > > Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from > > > a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just > > > drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor > > > used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the > > > coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is > > > turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. > > > > How long SHOULD it run, considering the size of the batteries? If it > > SHOULD run for (say) ten days, then two days is meaningless. Twenty days > > would be interesting, but not proof, since the total energy in a battery > > is not well defined. Replace the batteries with a supercapacitor? The > > energy in a capacitor is VERY well defined. But if the F/E effect > > involves the chemistry at the battery plates, then capacitors cannot be > > used. > > > > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 18:05:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13943; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:05:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:05:28 -0800 Message-ID: <20000402020452.45924.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.80] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Oscilloscope Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 18:04:52 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"eLIVc.0.eP3.dhgvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey all, If anyone needs an oscilloscope - I've got a BK Precision 10 Mhz, model 1471b - not sure about the age because I got it used. Works well, though, never had a problem with it. I also have a bunch of HV transformers and capacitors, email me directly if you're looking for something specific, or about the 'scope. richardsontim@hotmail.com ps - (in light of all the recent posts on this issue, I got Bill's blessing before posting this) TR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 18:26:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17661; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:25:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:25:32 -0800 Message-ID: <001201bf9c4c$1b156de0$c9a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <002701bf9c3c$2cbb33a0$d4a270d1@markross> <000701bf9c43$42325540$5d6bd9d0@58hde> Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:35:25 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"b8TxN2.0.sJ4.R-gvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thank you for your kind comments. I think I might try Fran De Aquinos antigravity experment next. It sounds interesting. Have you looked at what JLN Labs is doing. http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm I think I can use my welder for power and weld up a round trough for the antennna. It looks so simple. What do you think. Comments? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert" To: Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > Hello all, Good job Sparky.. at least you are experimenting. You never > claimed > overunity. Plus you are replicating a motor as I did. NOBODY is claiming > overunity. At least some of us try...not setting back in the easy chair > saying..that wont work..or do this, or that you are not testing it > correctly. All experimenters do is report that the motor or whatever it may > be, is performing beyound expectations. Some of you fellows need to get your > hands dirty.. Of course you have done it and are past that.. So I'll get > back to work..Regards, Robert H. Calloway.----- Original Message ----- > From: sparky > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 6:40 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > > > > This motor is not overunity as I built it .It is just very efficient and > > kind of novel and fun. Bidini does have some that may be OverUnity and > > involves the chemistry of the battery plates. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Beaty" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:05 PM > > Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > > > > > > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, sparky wrote: > > > > > > > I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used > a2n3055 > > > > Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut > from > > > > a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just > > > > drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor > > > > used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the > > > > coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is > > > > turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. > > > > > > How long SHOULD it run, considering the size of the batteries? If it > > > SHOULD run for (say) ten days, then two days is meaningless. Twenty > days > > > would be interesting, but not proof, since the total energy in a battery > > > is not well defined. Replace the batteries with a supercapacitor? The > > > energy in a capacitor is VERY well defined. But if the F/E effect > > > involves the chemistry at the battery plates, then capacitors cannot be > > > used. > > > > > > > > > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST > website > > > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird > science > > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L > webhead-L > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 18:54:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25151; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:53:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:53:59 -0800 Message-ID: <002801bf9c4f$02c86460$800eacd1@data> From: "Edward Kauffmann" To: , Subject: Re: Bedini hand drawn motor plan Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:51:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF9C24.81850F40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"QV75U.0.t86.7Phvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF9C24.81850F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, Here are a couple of toys that, once combined, make almost exactly the = same thing as this Bedini motor. This link is a toy that is the magnetic rotor part (no modification): http://www.thinkertoyscarmel.com/thinkertoys/magtwospinwh.html and this link is a toy that has two coils around an iron core with = transistor. One of the coils is attached to a 9v battery and the other = is a pickup coil that is hooked to a transistor that switches in the 9v = to repel the rotor (this can be removed from the plastic base): http://www.thinkertoyscarmel.com/thinkertoys/pertop.html You can get these toys anywhere cheap and put the whole thing together = in a few minutes. The two links above are just examples of what and = where to find them. If you have a Learning Store, or even those Nature = stores around everywhere, carry stuff like that. This link is to a video of my setup from a couple years back. I started = with a new 9v and the thing ran continuous for over 7 days! The RPM = started at around 400 or so and slowly decreased until the rotor speed = was insufficient to fire the transistor any more. http://web.triton.net/edkl/pfeul/spintoy.avi Here are the patents for these toys which include circuits, etc. http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS05135425__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS04728871__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS03783550__ Hope this info helps. Edward Kauffmann edk@pfeul.com ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF9C24.81850F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,
 
Here are a couple of toys that, once = combined, make=20 almost exactly the same thing as this Bedini motor.
 
This link is a toy that is the magnetic rotor = part (no=20 modification):
h= ttp://www.thinkertoyscarmel.com/thinkertoys/magtwospinwh.html<= /DIV>
 
and this link is a toy that has two coils around an iron core = with=20 transistor.  One of the coils is attached to a 9v battery and the = other is=20 a pickup coil that is hooked to a transistor that switches in the 9v to = repel=20 the rotor (this can be removed from the plastic = base):
http://= www.thinkertoyscarmel.com/thinkertoys/pertop.html
 
You can get these toys anywhere cheap and put the = whole thing=20 together in a few minutes.  The two links above are just examples = of what=20 and where to find them.  If you have a Learning Store, or even = those=20 Nature stores around everywhere, carry stuff like that.
 
This link is to a video of my setup from a couple = years=20 back.  I started with a new 9v and the thing ran continuous for = over 7=20 days!  The RPM started at around 400 or so and = slowly decreased until=20 the rotor speed was insufficient to fire the transistor any=20 more.
http://web.triton.n= et/edkl/pfeul/spintoy.avi
 
Here are the patents for these toys which include = circuits,=20 etc.
http:/= /www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS05135425__
http:/= /www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS04728871__
http:/= /www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS03783550__
 
Hope this info helps.
 
Edward Kauffmann
 
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF9C24.81850F40-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 18:56:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25528; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:56:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:56:13 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000401183736.23770c84@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 18:37:36 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? In-Reply-To: <004501bf9c20$b091e0a0$13b57ed8@m> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tp34s3.0.mE6.CRhvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michael and all, At 01:24 PM 04/01/00 -0800, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: William Beaty >Subject: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? >I did not get a refund, and said he could keep my $125. This was cheap, as >I spent much more on buying magnets anyway. I had a good time building the >different designs, none of which worked as claimed. What I also found >disturbing was the fact that he said he had a working unit, but never >produced a photo of it operating. >Regards, Michael > In watching the movements in all your tests, did you get any insight into how the magnets and magnetic fields act. For example, did you see the minimum field location near the exit point? There were also claims of the ball magnetically saturating, etc. Also you should be better able to judge the claims of other similar magnetic devices, typically rotating, from all your experience in your adjustments. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 19:03:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA29601; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:02:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:02:57 -0800 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 22:00:34 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <006801bf9c24$2e7c0a60$13b57ed8@m> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"qW5z73.0.QE7.WXhvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi. I assume the recent interest in this topic is the unfortunate cross posting that BAP has been doing to this list. It is indeed self serving and not at all in the spirit of this list. To my mind this is more the issue; I'd tolerate the pitching if he was actively engaged in dialogue on the list, but he's simply cross posting comments from his own list here. As to Bruces comments about inventors making a living, well guess what Bruce, I'm an inventor, and I make a living. It's not so complex. If you're interested in promoting your ideas then share them freely; if your interested in making some money then sell them. Either is an honorable path; what you are doing is claiming one and doing the other. I can assure you that whatever your motives; the results will satisfy neither you nor your clients/friends. I welcome discussion of your ideas here. Cross-posting sales related information is another matter. If you have IP issues with posting certain information than the best thing to do is clam up. Stuff like the words "CENSORED INFORMATION" appearing in your posts add little to your credibility. Enough said. K. -----Original Message----- From: mrand@access [mailto:mrand@iols.net] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 4:50 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' Date: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:47 PM Subject: RE: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? >>> >A little bit of fraud is intolerable, but until recently I didn't see an >easy way to exclude it without excluding honest research. My solution: a >total ban on SELF-promotion. If an inventor wants to prove his claims, >OK, but if he wants to use FREENRG-L to drum up funding or to sell his >invention, too bad, the ANTI-FRAUD, ANTI-SELF-PROMOTION rules will not >allow it. Yes, I believe this will limit the false claims and save all of us time and money. Thank you. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 19:34:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA04348; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:33:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:33:50 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01bf9c54$54ebf900$ea8bf7d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: References: <200003301253.EAA22487@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20000330225136.2bdf0846@earthlink.net> <38E554DD.88650CFE@microtec.net> <000501bf9b86$8ea898c0$8089f5d1@dell> <38E57A4E.BA95E4B3@microtec.net> Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:34:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"W-bNN2.0.r31.T-hvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I am sure that all this is in the timing and that it has nothing to do with a > "critical mass" of copper or monstrusously large coils with huge impedances. How are you 'sure' of this? Please tell me a little about your experiments and your results. What kind of DC motors have you been modifying? I'd be up for doing some testing with your ideas, but you've been pretty vague so far. I'm all ears (or is it eyes), ...Z From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 19:58:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13482; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:58:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:58:15 -0800 Message-ID: <003701bf9c57$ad0f1d80$9db57ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:58:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"2YfGg3.0.VI3.NLivu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and all, >> >In watching the movements in all your tests, did you get any insight into >how the magnets and magnetic fields act. Yes, it was a good learning experience on magnetic fields. It was a lot of fun also! I have heard that he was being suppressed? I am still "trucking" even at $1.65/GL for gasoline :-) Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 20:00:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13935; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:00:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:00:13 -0800 Message-ID: <00bf01bf9c57$e36fb560$125cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <01bf9b19$66599da0$3900fd80@zio-stefo> Subject: Re: Ancient Italian Perpetual pendulum Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 22:19:34 -0500 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"-zv233.0.dP3.CNivu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > http://albinoni.brera.unimi.it/Atti-Como-96/tinazzi.html It's an interesting concept, but it's not really perpetual, just very very long-lived. -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 20:05:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA15479; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:05:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:05:31 -0800 Message-ID: <38E6C49E.3B76B47C@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 15:55:10 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor References: <002701bf9c3c$2cbb33a0$d4a270d1@markross> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MzY1e3.0.kn3.ASivu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Did yours equal the duration of the science fair motor? Also did you try it would south poles instead (need to reverse the wiring) Isn't it strange that ALL of the devices he makes us North pole as a preference? Why don't you try south pole and see if the duration is as long? Also how do you know it wasn't OU? Were you measuring the output? (torque and electrical) sparky wrote: > This motor is not overunity as I built it .It is just very efficient and > kind of novel and fun. Bidini does have some that may be OverUnity and > involves the chemistry of the battery plates. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Beaty" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:05 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, sparky wrote: > > > > > I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used a2n3055 > > > Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from > > > a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just > > > drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor > > > used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the > > > coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is > > > turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. > > > > How long SHOULD it run, considering the size of the batteries? If it > > SHOULD run for (say) ten days, then two days is meaningless. Twenty days > > would be interesting, but not proof, since the total energy in a battery > > is not well defined. Replace the batteries with a supercapacitor? The > > energy in a capacitor is VERY well defined. But if the F/E effect > > involves the chemistry at the battery plates, then capacitors cannot be > > used. > > > > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 21:01:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27986; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:01:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:01:28 -0800 Message-ID: <001701bf9c61$ddce2a60$5aa270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <002801bf9c4f$02c86460$800eacd1@data> Subject: Re: Bedini hand drawn motor plan Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:11:11 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF9C16.6CD25340" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"v25u53.0.Br6.eGjvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF9C16.6CD25340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable COOL ! THANKS. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Edward Kauffmann=20 To: interact@keelynet.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Bedini hand drawn motor plan Hi Everyone, =20 Here are a couple of toys that, once combined, make almost exactly the = same thing as this Bedini motor. =20 This link is a toy that is the magnetic rotor part (no modification): http://www.thinkertoyscarmel.com/thinkertoys/magtwospinwh.html and this link is a toy that has two coils around an iron core with = transistor. One of the coils is attached to a 9v battery and the other = is a pickup coil that is hooked to a transistor that switches in the 9v = to repel the rotor (this can be removed from the plastic base): http://www.thinkertoyscarmel.com/thinkertoys/pertop.html You can get these toys anywhere cheap and put the whole thing together = in a few minutes. The two links above are just examples of what and = where to find them. If you have a Learning Store, or even those Nature = stores around everywhere, carry stuff like that. This link is to a video of my setup from a couple years back. I = started with a new 9v and the thing ran continuous for over 7 days! The = RPM started at around 400 or so and slowly decreased until the rotor = speed was insufficient to fire the transistor any more. http://web.triton.net/edkl/pfeul/spintoy.avi Here are the patents for these toys which include circuits, etc. http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS05135425__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS04728871__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS03783550__ Hope this info helps. Edward Kauffmann edk@pfeul.com ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF9C16.6CD25340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
COOL !  THANKS.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Edward = Kauffmann=20
To: interact@keelynet.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 = 5:51=20 PM
Subject: Re: Bedini hand drawn = motor=20 plan

Hi Everyone,
 
Here are a couple of toys that, once=20 combined, make almost exactly the same thing as this Bedini=20 motor.
 
This link is a toy that is the magnetic rotor = part (no=20 modification):
h= ttp://www.thinkertoyscarmel.com/thinkertoys/magtwospinwh.html<= /DIV>
 
and this link is a toy that has two coils around an iron = core with=20 transistor.  One of the coils is attached to a 9v battery and the = other=20 is a pickup coil that is hooked to a transistor that switches in the = 9v to=20 repel the rotor (this can be removed from the plastic=20 base):
http://= www.thinkertoyscarmel.com/thinkertoys/pertop.html
 
You can get these toys anywhere cheap and put the = whole=20 thing together in a few minutes.  The two links above are just = examples=20 of what and where to find them.  If you have a Learning = Store, or=20 even those Nature stores around everywhere, carry stuff like=20 that.
 
This link is to a video of my setup from a couple = years=20 back.  I started with a new 9v and the thing ran continuous for = over 7=20 days!  The RPM started at around 400 or so and = slowly decreased=20 until the rotor speed was insufficient to fire the = transistor any=20 more.
http://web.triton.n= et/edkl/pfeul/spintoy.avi
 
Here are the patents for these toys which include = circuits,=20 etc.
http:/= /www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS05135425__
http:/= /www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS04728871__
http:/= /www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS03783550__
 
Hope this info helps.
 
Edward Kauffmann
edk@pfeul.com
 
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF9C16.6CD25340-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 21:21:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA02660; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:20:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:20:47 -0800 Message-ID: <002501bf9c64$91db6340$5aa270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <002701bf9c3c$2cbb33a0$d4a270d1@markross> <38E6C49E.3B76B47C@ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:29:56 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"x1T5L.0.Mf.kYjvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14632 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: No, my motor ran for three days. Some people say north poles when they mean repelling poles. Even Bedini does not claim this motor is OverUnity. He has added a circuit to the motor plan that may make it OverUnity but I have not added it to the motor yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Berry" To: Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 6:55 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > Did yours equal the duration of the science fair motor? > Also did you try it would south poles instead (need to reverse the wiring) > Isn't it strange that ALL of the devices he makes us North pole as a preference? > > Why don't you try south pole and see if the duration is as long? > > Also how do you know it wasn't OU? Were you measuring the output? (torque and > electrical) > > sparky wrote: > > > This motor is not overunity as I built it .It is just very efficient and > > kind of novel and fun. Bidini does have some that may be OverUnity and > > involves the chemistry of the battery plates. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Beaty" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:05 PM > > Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > > > > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, sparky wrote: > > > > > > > I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used a2n3055 > > > > Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from > > > > a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just > > > > drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor > > > > used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the > > > > coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is > > > > turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. > > > > > > How long SHOULD it run, considering the size of the batteries? If it > > > SHOULD run for (say) ten days, then two days is meaningless. Twenty days > > > would be interesting, but not proof, since the total energy in a battery > > > is not well defined. Replace the batteries with a supercapacitor? The > > > energy in a capacitor is VERY well defined. But if the F/E effect > > > involves the chemistry at the battery plates, then capacitors cannot be > > > used. > > > > > > > > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 21:24:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04379; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:24:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:24:27 -0800 Message-ID: <38E6D9A5.58D9@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 00:24:53 -0500 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Bruce Perreault's Tesla Patent Collection Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bnf3d2.0.K41.Acjvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bruce, Bill Beatty wrote: >> >> There is a failure of communication here. "Public domain" means "owned by >> the public". Those patents were always in the ownership of the public, >> whether or not the public new they existed, or had any access to them. >> Nothing you did changed their ownership status. >> >> If you state that they are not in the public domain, you might cause >> yourself some trouble, because people might take you for a liar or fool, >> or as someone who is trying to claim ownership of public property. In >> reality I think you simply misunderstand what the term "public domain" >> means. Those patents were not known, or easily found, but they were, and >> are, in the public domain. >No matter how the cookie crumbles here I have been once again deprived >of deserved credit. Jerry and Fred took the fruits of my labor and took >credit for the contribution. I have many more gifts to share with human >kind that are new discoveries. However... this situation leaves a bitter >feeling and I am having second thoughts of sharing anything more. What >does it matter if these patents are "public domain?" It is a matter of >ethics. I fully agree with you here *ASSUMING you did the research, transfer to computer, and publication of the patents.* The "collection" copyright provides the owner of the copyright to control the results of his efforts, even though the original, non-collected material, is in the public domain. This is true for books on myths (Fraser), folk music (Seeger, Lomax), and any other collection. Nothing can be directly copied from the collections without permission from the copyright holder. But anyone is free to do their own collecting and publishing of the same data (but they'd better be able to prove they did the actual work, and not just repeating copies of whatever someone else sends them from copyrighted sources). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 21:41:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08647; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:40:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:40:49 -0800 Message-ID: <38E6DAF9.2C8DF7@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 17:30:33 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor References: <002701bf9c3c$2cbb33a0$d4a270d1@markross> <38E6C49E.3B76B47C@ihug.co.nz> <002501bf9c64$91db6340$5aa270d1@markross> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6_py83.0.y62.Xrjvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: He doesn't claim it, but you really have no way of knowing is my point. It sure is strangely efficient. It is a candidate. Anyway I disagree that he just meant repelling poles. In every diagram he has north pole and even makes a point of calling some of them because of their polarity. I have found a number of things that suggest that north is important. So I ask that you try and see what happens with south pole rotor (and coil) to see if there is a difference. sparky wrote: > No, my motor ran for three days. Some people say north poles when they mean > repelling poles. Even Bedini does not claim this motor is OverUnity. He has > added a circuit to the motor plan that may make it OverUnity but I have not > added it to the motor yet. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Berry" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 6:55 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > > > Did yours equal the duration of the science fair motor? > > Also did you try it would south poles instead (need to reverse the wiring) > > Isn't it strange that ALL of the devices he makes us North pole as a > preference? > > > > Why don't you try south pole and see if the duration is as long? > > > > Also how do you know it wasn't OU? Were you measuring the output? (torque > and > > electrical) > > > > sparky wrote: > > > > > This motor is not overunity as I built it .It is just very efficient and > > > kind of novel and fun. Bidini does have some that may be OverUnity and > > > involves the chemistry of the battery plates. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "William Beaty" > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:05 PM > > > Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor > > > > > > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, sparky wrote: > > > > > > > > > I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used > a2n3055 > > > > > Transistor from radio shack.For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut > from > > > > > a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just > > > > > drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small > motor > > > > > used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the > > > > > coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is > > > > > turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. > > > > > > > > How long SHOULD it run, considering the size of the batteries? If it > > > > SHOULD run for (say) ten days, then two days is meaningless. Twenty > days > > > > would be interesting, but not proof, since the total energy in a > battery > > > > is not well defined. Replace the batteries with a supercapacitor? > The > > > > energy in a capacitor is VERY well defined. But if the F/E effect > > > > involves the chemistry at the battery plates, then capacitors cannot > be > > > > used. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST > website > > > > billb@eskimo.com > http://www.amasci.com > > > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird > science > > > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L > webhead-L > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 21:48:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA10625; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:48:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:48:09 -0800 Message-ID: <01BF9C24.5C420710@istf-2-14.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'harti@harti.com'" Subject: RE: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:50:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BF9C24.5C420710" Resent-Message-ID: <"rzvGl2.0.ub2.Pyjvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF9C24.5C420710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like many of us chose not to ask for a refund. Me too. I guess partly because when I sent the money, I knew it was a risk, and = sort of wrote it off. And I definitely considered that if it did turn = out to be real, *if* he was telling the truth, I would have thrown away = an immense opportunity by cashing out too early. At the time, $125 was = less than my quarterly Ben & Jerry's budget (really! but I don't do that = any more ;-) It definitely looks like fraud now, but jeez... there's a whole lot of = easier ways to do fraud. Surely it wasn't planned that way? I'd sure = like to have a beer with the guy, and find out what really went on. On 12/7/98, Stefan Hartman forwarded an e-mail purportedly from Watson. = It said, in part: >Until the legal problems surrounding the SMOT are resolved,=20 >ALL SMOT deposits are to be refunded. The SMOT orders=20 >will stay active and on file. When the SMOT is ready to ship,=20 >you will be invited to receive a SMOT for no cost. [snip] >Current research has shown that the SMOT effect is weak,=20 >real but NOT OU. The e-mail address for refunds was "smotrefund@hotmail.com", not = Watson's normal address, which smelled a little fishy.=20 By the way, where's Stefan? He was the most vocal refund demander. 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Sun, 2 Apr 2000 03:06:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 03:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: <00c701bf9c8b$09be0ae0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 11:02:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"doAIr2.0.9P2.Cknvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Sparky For better testing, switch on your motor. When it reaches a fairly constant RPM, switch it off. When it stops, switch it on again....and repeat. Continually rotating the motor without a load only requires energy to overcome friction to maintain a constant RPM. I hope I am talking about the correct motor / experiment here :=} Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: sparky >No, my motor ran for three days. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 03:28:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA12099; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 03:28:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 03:28:32 -0700 Message-ID: <012b01bf9c8e$2cd04900$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: RE: Fran De Aquino experiments Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 11:28:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"IfuXI.0.yy2.G3ovu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Sparky, JLN and all If JLN gets any results at all, then sod the business, cash flow, girlfriend's etc. I'm making one! JLN's work and presentation is really stunning and shows us all how it really should be done. What software do you produce your graphs and 3D modelling on Jean Louis? P.S. Doesn't the Fran De Aquino 'UFO' drive mechanism on Jean Louis' site look amazingly like the drive described by Bob Lazar. I personally didn't believed him though. Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: sparky To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > I think I might try Fran De Aquinos antigravity experment next. It sounds interesting. Have you looked at what JLN Labs is doing. http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 04:54:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA21564; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 04:53:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 04:53:45 -0700 Message-ID: <002201bf9c9a$27acdcc0$bd8ff5d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: Subject: The G.E.E.T. Motor Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 04:51:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF9C5F.1DA45B80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"CWjf2.0.mG5.9Jpvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF9C5F.1DA45B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there, I was hesitant to write about this before, because I didn't want to seem = like I was promoting or advertising something, but after the recent = comments about advertising, I think I'm okay. I have no connection to = the the G.E.E.T. guys and make NO money off my free energy research. I = sell my 'skills' to companies - my 'ideas' and knowledge are free to = anyone interested enough to ask. I also think we need some more = positive discussion after the thread about the SMOT thing. I saw the G.E.E.T. demo in Arizona once and later bought one when Paul = Pantone and the team were visiting a small town in California. He sold = me a small 3.5 HP engine with a G.E.E.T. device installed. It cost $700 = (ouch). They had a lot of devices to show both times I've seen them. = But I was interested in something I could take home and test myself. = After trying to by one of the 5kW generators they were selling and = finding they were sold out, I resorted to buying the smaller demo unit. It was very crude. The whole thing was mounted on a 2"x12" plank. The = gas tank consisted of a Mason jar filled with steel wool and two brass = tubes epoxied into the lid. The tubes were 3/8" threaded rod like the = kind they sell at the hardware store for lamps (ie the thing you screw = the lamp shade to). Only the carb and exhaust had been replaced, the = rest of the motor was completely stock (we made sure of this when we got = it home). The carb was replaced by two small butterfly valves like the = kind you use to turn off the gas to your hot water heater. One is on = the input tube which runs to the bottom of the jar. The input tube = bubbles the fuel creating a mist at the top of the jar which is picked = up by the output tube. The other valve is attached to one side of a "T" = fitting which allows air to be mixed with the fuel coming from the tank = before going into the motor. So one valve controls how much the tank = bubbles, the other controls the air/fuel ratio. The output is then = routed to a 2 foot length of 1/2" inch steel pipe which is welded inside = of the 1" exhaust pipe. It is welded such that the exhaust is routed = around the intake tube which is centered inside of it. The two tubes = remain sealed so that the fuel is not allowed to mix with the exhaust. = The exhaust pipe is bent in a "Z" shape, and the ends of the intake tube = are welded so that they stick out the ends of the vertical bar of the = "Z". The intake pipe is thick like regular galvanized water pipe. The = exhaust pipe is thinner metal, more like standard exhaust tube. The = direction of fuel input is opposite that of exhaust output. At the ends of the input pipe are brass fittings that allow 1/4" steel = tubing to be attached. The fittings also act as stoppers for a 1/4"x18" = steel rod that is placed inside of the tube. When the motor is running, = the rod bounces back and forth against the fittings. This is one of the = most important parts of the motor and may act as the 'catalytic cracker' = for those familiar with petroleum processing. The exhaust pipe is about 2 feet long, and has a small muffler (looks = like the original lawn mower engine muffler) on the end. Another 1/4" = steel tube runs from this exhaust pipe into the input valve of the fuel = tank. This way, some of the exhaust is routed back into the fuel tank = creating pressure. When the motor is running, the intake strokes = produce a vacuum in the tank and the exhaust strokes pressurize it. How = much pressure is controlled by the valve on the input side of the tank, = the amount of vaccuum is controlled by the valve on the output side of = the tank. To test the motor, we attached a 30 volt permanent magnet motor to be = used as a generator and a constant load (big resister). Enough to pull = the RPM of the motor down. I've taken some digital shots of this which I will try to post on my = website (http://home.earthlink.net/~pigmaniac/) right after I post this. Okay, now the good news. We've run this thing for 10-20 hours now with = some pretty cool results. Let me start by saying that we've never seen = it run on pure water or produce anything that seemed like real free = energy, but the results are encouraging to say the least. We began by experimenting with what the motor would run on. It runs = very good on gasoline or oil. You can run pure used oil in it and it = will barely smoke. You can also run things like soda and coffee without = it seizing up. We ran it on various combinations of gas and water and = found that it would start and run on as little as 5% gas to 95% water. = Skeptics (like me) would say that the bubbler in the fuel tank is simply = separating the gas from the water before it goes into the engine. But = that doesn't seem to be the case. When running on a 50/50 mixture of gas and water, the two quickly = combine in the jar and produce a white milky liquid. The mist produced = in the top of the jar is equally milky. Seeing this makes it hard to = believe the gas and water are being separated. If you stop the motor = and allow the jar to sit overnight, the gas and water do not separate. = In fact, once their mixed, they appear never to separate again, no = matter how long you wait (we've waited up to 30 days). Another experiment involved adding fresh water to this milky mixture. = When we did, about 1/4 of the water went to the bottom of the jar, and = the rest floated on the top, leaving the milk as a layer in between. = Hmmm, something strange is afoot at the Circle-K... Using a thermocouple I was able to measure the temperature at the top of = the exhaust pipe (right next to the engine barrel) as well as at the = muffler end. The difference in temperatures was amazing. It was = between 700-800 degrees F at the engine side of the pipe, yet less that = 2 feet of pipe later we never read anything hotter than 160 degrees. The emissions from this engine as always very cool and clean smelling. = You can put a paper towel over the exhaust and nothing will collect on = it. I watched the G.E.E.T. guys run an 18 HP version in a hotel room = for 10 minutes and also noticed no smell of gasoline. There is some = smoke when you run the engine on pure engine oil (especially used engine = oil), but the motor runs much hotter as well which might explain it. = Still it's nice to know you can run on used engine oil if you run out of = gas. The most bizarre find is that as you run the engine on pure gas or a = gas/water mixture, the fuel tank (mason jar) gets really cold. Cold = enough to condense water on the outside of it. This is by far the most = surprising result. The only real free energy tests I can report involve timing a full jar = of pure gas versus a full jar of half gas and half water. We found that = with the same load attached, the 50/50 mixture ran for almost 45 = minutes, while the pure gas jar only ran for 30 minutes. We repeated = the results more than once. And the times were always within 3-5 = minutes of each other, so even factoring in the error, we were getting = about 5-10 minutes longer out of the 50/50 mixture. It appears to me and my friends that the water is mixing with the fuel = somehow to produce something that burns more efficiently than the fuel = alone. The coldness in the tank is probably produced by the pressure = changes caused by the alternating intake and exhaust strokes. We have = no clue why the gas and water are able to mix together or to burn more = efficiently than the fuel alone. The only problems we've had with the motor were a blown head gasket = (when were still breaking the motor in) and cracks in the exhaust pipe = from vibration. So there is the long-winded (fingered?) truth. This message is = partially in response to a message I saw recently that said free energy = guys never really make any progress, they just talk a lot. I think I've = made some progress in experimenting with this and my giant coils (see = the "Magnetism =3D LI?" thread). I'm hoping others will come forward to = confirm some of these results and suggest other ways of confirming the = apparent successful results. We are planning on mounting the fuel tank = in a tub of water and measuring the temperature changes as we run the = motor. Anyone else have any experience with the G.E.E.T. technology, good or = bad? ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF9C5F.1DA45B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi there,
 
I was hesitant to write about this = before, because=20 I didn't want to seem like I was promoting or advertising something, but = after=20 the recent comments about advertising, I think I'm okay.  I have no = connection to the the G.E.E.T. guys and make NO money off my free energy = research.  I sell my 'skills' to companies - my 'ideas' and = knowledge=20 are free to anyone interested enough to ask.  I also think we need some more positive discussion after = the=20 thread about the SMOT thing.
 
I saw the G.E.E.T. demo in Arizona once = and later=20 bought one when Paul Pantone and the team were visiting a small town in=20 California.  He sold me a small 3.5 HP engine with a G.E.E.T. = device=20 installed.  It cost $700 (ouch).  They had a lot of devices to = show=20 both times I've seen them.  But I was interested in something I = could take=20 home and test myself.  After trying to by one of the 5kW generators = they=20 were selling and finding they were sold out, I resorted to buying the = smaller=20 demo unit.
 
It was very crude.  The whole = thing was=20 mounted on a 2"x12" plank.  The gas tank consisted of a Mason jar = filled=20 with steel wool and two brass tubes epoxied into the lid.  The = tubes were=20 3/8" threaded rod like the kind they sell at the hardware store for = lamps (ie=20 the thing you screw the lamp shade to).  Only the carb and exhaust = had been=20 replaced, the rest of the motor was completely stock (we made sure of = this when=20 we got it home).  The carb was replaced by two small butterfly = valves like=20 the kind you use to turn off the gas to your hot water heater.  One = is on=20 the input tube which runs to the bottom of the jar.  The input tube = bubbles=20 the fuel creating a mist at the top of the jar which is picked up by the = output=20 tube.  The other valve is attached to one side of a "T" fitting = which=20 allows air to be mixed with the fuel coming from the tank = before going into=20 the motor.  So one valve controls how much the tank bubbles, the = other=20 controls the air/fuel ratio.  The output is then routed to a 2 foot = length=20 of 1/2" inch steel pipe which is welded inside of the 1" exhaust = pipe.  It=20 is welded such that the exhaust is routed around the intake tube which = is=20 centered inside of it.  The two tubes remain sealed so that the = fuel is not=20 allowed to mix with the exhaust.  The exhaust pipe is bent in a "Z" = shape,=20 and the ends of the intake tube are welded so that they stick out the = ends of=20 the vertical bar of the "Z".  The intake pipe is thick like regular = galvanized water pipe.  The exhaust pipe is thinner metal, more=20 like standard exhaust tube.  The direction of fuel input is = opposite=20 that of exhaust output.
 
At the ends of the input pipe are brass = fittings=20 that allow 1/4" steel tubing to be attached.  The fittings also act = as=20 stoppers for a 1/4"x18" steel rod that is placed inside of the = tube.  When=20 the motor is running, the rod bounces back and forth against the = fittings. =20 This is one of the most important parts of the motor and may act as the=20 'catalytic cracker' for those familiar with petroleum = processing.
 
The exhaust pipe is about 2 feet long, = and has a=20 small muffler (looks like the original lawn mower engine muffler) on the = end.  Another 1/4" steel tube runs from this exhaust pipe into the = input=20 valve of the fuel tank.  This way, some of the exhaust is routed = back into=20 the fuel tank creating pressure.  When the motor is running, the = intake=20 strokes produce a vacuum in the tank and the exhaust strokes pressurize=20 it.  How much pressure is controlled by the valve on the input side = of the=20 tank, the amount of vaccuum is controlled by the valve on the output = side of the=20 tank.
 
To test the motor, we attached a 30 = volt permanent=20 magnet motor to be used as a generator and a constant load (big = resister). =20 Enough to pull the RPM of the motor down.
 
I've taken some digital shots of this = which I will=20 try to post on my website (http://home.earthlink.net/= ~pigmaniac/)=20 right after I post this.
 
Okay, now the good news.  We've = run this thing=20 for 10-20 hours now with some pretty cool results.  Let me start by = saying=20 that we've never seen it run on pure water or produce anything that = seemed like=20 real free energy, but the results are encouraging to say the = least.
 
We began by experimenting with what the = motor would=20 run on.  It runs very good on gasoline or oil.  You can run = pure used=20 oil in it and it will barely smoke.  You can also run things like = soda and=20 coffee without it seizing up.  We ran it on various combinations of = gas and=20 water and found that it would start and run on as little as 5% gas to = 95%=20 water.  Skeptics (like me) would say that the bubbler in the fuel = tank is=20 simply separating the gas from the water before it goes into the = engine. =20 But that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
When running on a 50/50 mixture of gas = and water,=20 the two quickly combine in the jar and produce a white milky = liquid.  The=20 mist produced in the top of the jar is equally milky.  Seeing this = makes it=20 hard to believe the gas and water are being separated.  If you stop = the=20 motor and allow the jar to sit overnight, the gas and water do not=20 separate.  In fact, once their mixed, they appear never to separate = again,=20 no matter how long you wait (we've waited up to 30 days).
 
Another experiment involved adding = fresh water to=20 this milky mixture.  When we did, about 1/4 of the water went to = the bottom=20 of the jar, and the rest floated on the top, leaving the milk as a layer = in=20 between.  Hmmm, something strange is afoot at the = Circle-K...
 
Using a thermocouple I was able to = measure the=20 temperature at the top of the exhaust pipe (right next to the engine = barrel) as=20 well as at the muffler end.  The difference in temperatures was=20 amazing.  It was between 700-800 degrees F at the engine side of = the pipe,=20 yet less that 2 feet of pipe later we never read anything hotter than = 160=20 degrees.
 
The emissions from this engine as = always very cool=20 and clean smelling.  You can put a paper towel over the exhaust and = nothing=20 will collect on it.  I watched the G.E.E.T. guys run an 18 HP = version in a=20 hotel room for 10 minutes and also noticed no smell of gasoline.  = There is=20 some smoke when you run the engine on pure engine oil (especially used = engine=20 oil), but the motor runs much hotter as well which might explain = it.  Still=20 it's nice to know you can run on used engine oil if you run out of=20 gas.
 
The most bizarre find is that as you = run the engine=20 on pure gas or a gas/water mixture, the fuel tank (mason jar) gets = really=20 cold.  Cold enough to condense water on the outside of it.  = This is by=20 far the most surprising result.
 
The only real free energy tests I can = report=20 involve timing a full jar of pure gas versus a full jar of half gas and = half=20 water.  We found that with the same load attached, the 50/50 = mixture ran=20 for almost 45 minutes, while the pure gas jar only ran for 30 = minutes.  We=20 repeated the results more than once.  And the times were always = within 3-5=20 minutes of each other, so even factoring in the error, we were getting = about=20 5-10 minutes longer out of the 50/50 mixture.
 
It appears to me and my friends that = the water is=20 mixing with the fuel somehow to produce something that burns more = efficiently=20 than the fuel alone.  The coldness in the tank is probably produced = by the=20 pressure changes caused by the alternating intake and exhaust = strokes.  We=20 have no clue why the gas and water are able to mix together or to burn = more=20 efficiently than the fuel alone.
 
The only problems we've had with the = motor were a=20 blown head gasket (when were still breaking the motor in) and cracks in = the=20 exhaust pipe from vibration.
 
So there is the long-winded (fingered?) = truth.  This message is partially in response to a message I saw = recently=20 that said free energy guys never really make any progress, they just = talk a=20 lot.  I think I've made some progress in experimenting with this = and my=20 giant coils (see the "Magnetism =3D LI?" thread).  I'm hoping = others will=20 come forward to confirm some of these results and suggest other ways of=20 confirming the apparent successful results.  We are planning on = mounting=20 the fuel tank in a tub of water and measuring the temperature changes as = we run=20 the motor.
 
Anyone else have any experience with = the G.E.E.T.=20 technology, good or bad?
 
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF9C5F.1DA45B80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 04:58:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA23138; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 04:58:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 04:58:39 -0700 Message-ID: <38E73605.5CBC@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 07:59:01 -0400 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Bedini Science Fair Motor References: <00c701bf9c8b$09be0ae0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mki2_3.0.Rf5.lNpvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David, I would like to remind everyone that the "Bendini Motor" and its' claim to fame was that it was "over-unity." This is to jog the memory of those who have so conviently forgotten this little fact. -BAP David Callaghan wrote: > > Hi Sparky > > For better testing, switch on your motor. When it reaches a fairly constant > RPM, switch it off. When it stops, switch it on again....and repeat. > > Continually rotating the motor without a load only requires energy to > overcome friction to maintain a constant RPM. > > I hope I am talking about the correct motor / experiment here :=} > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > > -----Original Message----- > From: sparky > > >No, my motor ran for three days. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 07:16:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05549; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 07:15:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 07:15:51 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01bf9caf$3d7438e0$9fa270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: "Scott Zimmerman" , References: <002201bf9c9a$27acdcc0$bd8ff5d1@dell> Subject: Re: The G.E.E.T. Motor Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 06:25:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF9C6C.2E2C00E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"rm2_G2.0.bM1.NOrvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14640 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF9C6C.2E2C00E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I made one last fall on a 3HPengine . I had the same results that you = had. I had to stop testing because in cold weather the fuel and water = mix freeze in the bubbler. I will do more work on it this summer. PS = Iive in Alaska.:o) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Scott Zimmerman=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 3:51 AM Subject: The G.E.E.T. Motor Hi there, I was hesitant to write about this before, because I didn't want to = seem like I was promoting or advertising something, but after the recent = comments about advertising, I think I'm okay. I have no connection to = the the G.E.E.T. guys and make NO money off my free energy research. I = sell my 'skills' to companies - my 'ideas' and knowledge are free to = anyone interested enough to ask. I also think we need some more = positive discussion after the thread about the SMOT thing. I saw the G.E.E.T. demo in Arizona once and later bought one when Paul = Pantone and the team were visiting a small town in California. He sold = me a small 3.5 HP engine with a G.E.E.T. device installed. It cost $700 = (ouch). They had a lot of devices to show both times I've seen them. = But I was interested in something I could take home and test myself. = After trying to by one of the 5kW generators they were selling and = finding they were sold out, I resorted to buying the smaller demo unit. =20 It was very crude. The whole thing was mounted on a 2"x12" plank. = The gas tank consisted of a Mason jar filled with steel wool and two = brass tubes epoxied into the lid. The tubes were 3/8" threaded rod like = the kind they sell at the hardware store for lamps (ie the thing you = screw the lamp shade to). Only the carb and exhaust had been replaced, = the rest of the motor was completely stock (we made sure of this when we = got it home). The carb was replaced by two small butterfly valves like = the kind you use to turn off the gas to your hot water heater. One is = on the input tube which runs to the bottom of the jar. The input tube = bubbles the fuel creating a mist at the top of the jar which is picked = up by the output tube. The other valve is attached to one side of a "T" = fitting which allows air to be mixed with the fuel coming from the tank = before going into the motor. So one valve controls how much the tank = bubbles, the other controls the air/fuel ratio. The output is then = routed to a 2 foot length of 1/2" inch steel pipe which is welded inside = of the 1" exhaust pipe. It is welded such that the exhaust is routed = around the intake tube which is centered inside of it. The two tubes = remain sealed so that the fuel is not allowed to mix with the exhaust. = The exhaust pipe is bent in a "Z" shape, and the ends of the intake tube = are welded so that they stick out the ends of the vertical bar of the = "Z". The intake pipe is thick like regular galvanized water pipe. The = exhaust pipe is thinner metal, more like standard exhaust tube. The = direction of fuel input is opposite that of exhaust output. At the ends of the input pipe are brass fittings that allow 1/4" steel = tubing to be attached. The fittings also act as stoppers for a 1/4"x18" = steel rod that is placed inside of the tube. When the motor is running, = the rod bounces back and forth against the fittings. This is one of the = most important parts of the motor and may act as the 'catalytic cracker' = for those familiar with petroleum processing. The exhaust pipe is about 2 feet long, and has a small muffler (looks = like the original lawn mower engine muffler) on the end. Another 1/4" = steel tube runs from this exhaust pipe into the input valve of the fuel = tank. This way, some of the exhaust is routed back into the fuel tank = creating pressure. When the motor is running, the intake strokes = produce a vacuum in the tank and the exhaust strokes pressurize it. How = much pressure is controlled by the valve on the input side of the tank, = the amount of vaccuum is controlled by the valve on the output side of = the tank. To test the motor, we attached a 30 volt permanent magnet motor to be = used as a generator and a constant load (big resister). Enough to pull = the RPM of the motor down. I've taken some digital shots of this which I will try to post on my = website (http://home.earthlink.net/~pigmaniac/) right after I post this. Okay, now the good news. We've run this thing for 10-20 hours now = with some pretty cool results. Let me start by saying that we've never = seen it run on pure water or produce anything that seemed like real free = energy, but the results are encouraging to say the least. We began by experimenting with what the motor would run on. It runs = very good on gasoline or oil. You can run pure used oil in it and it = will barely smoke. You can also run things like soda and coffee without = it seizing up. We ran it on various combinations of gas and water and = found that it would start and run on as little as 5% gas to 95% water. = Skeptics (like me) would say that the bubbler in the fuel tank is simply = separating the gas from the water before it goes into the engine. But = that doesn't seem to be the case. =20 When running on a 50/50 mixture of gas and water, the two quickly = combine in the jar and produce a white milky liquid. The mist produced = in the top of the jar is equally milky. Seeing this makes it hard to = believe the gas and water are being separated. If you stop the motor = and allow the jar to sit overnight, the gas and water do not separate. = In fact, once their mixed, they appear never to separate again, no = matter how long you wait (we've waited up to 30 days). Another experiment involved adding fresh water to this milky mixture. = When we did, about 1/4 of the water went to the bottom of the jar, and = the rest floated on the top, leaving the milk as a layer in between. = Hmmm, something strange is afoot at the Circle-K... Using a thermocouple I was able to measure the temperature at the top = of the exhaust pipe (right next to the engine barrel) as well as at the = muffler end. The difference in temperatures was amazing. It was = between 700-800 degrees F at the engine side of the pipe, yet less that = 2 feet of pipe later we never read anything hotter than 160 degrees. The emissions from this engine as always very cool and clean smelling. = You can put a paper towel over the exhaust and nothing will collect on = it. I watched the G.E.E.T. guys run an 18 HP version in a hotel room = for 10 minutes and also noticed no smell of gasoline. There is some = smoke when you run the engine on pure engine oil (especially used engine = oil), but the motor runs much hotter as well which might explain it. = Still it's nice to know you can run on used engine oil if you run out of = gas. =20 The most bizarre find is that as you run the engine on pure gas or a = gas/water mixture, the fuel tank (mason jar) gets really cold. Cold = enough to condense water on the outside of it. This is by far the most = surprising result. The only real free energy tests I can report involve timing a full jar = of pure gas versus a full jar of half gas and half water. We found that = with the same load attached, the 50/50 mixture ran for almost 45 = minutes, while the pure gas jar only ran for 30 minutes. We repeated = the results more than once. And the times were always within 3-5 = minutes of each other, so even factoring in the error, we were getting = about 5-10 minutes longer out of the 50/50 mixture. It appears to me and my friends that the water is mixing with the fuel = somehow to produce something that burns more efficiently than the fuel = alone. The coldness in the tank is probably produced by the pressure = changes caused by the alternating intake and exhaust strokes. We have = no clue why the gas and water are able to mix together or to burn more = efficiently than the fuel alone. =20 The only problems we've had with the motor were a blown head gasket = (when were still breaking the motor in) and cracks in the exhaust pipe = from vibration. So there is the long-winded (fingered?) truth. This message is = partially in response to a message I saw recently that said free energy = guys never really make any progress, they just talk a lot. I think I've = made some progress in experimenting with this and my giant coils (see = the "Magnetism =3D LI?" thread). I'm hoping others will come forward to = confirm some of these results and suggest other ways of confirming the = apparent successful results. We are planning on mounting the fuel tank = in a tub of water and measuring the temperature changes as we run the = motor. Anyone else have any experience with the G.E.E.T. technology, good or = bad? ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF9C6C.2E2C00E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I made one last fall on a 3HPengine . I had the same = results=20 that you had. I had to stop testing because in cold weather the fuel and = water=20 mix freeze in the bubbler. I will do more work on it this summer. PS = Iive in=20 Alaska.:o)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Scott=20 Zimmerman
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 = 3:51=20 AM
Subject: The G.E.E.T. = Motor

Hi there,
 
I was hesitant to write about this = before,=20 because I didn't want to seem like I was promoting or advertising = something,=20 but after the recent comments about advertising, I think I'm = okay.  I=20 have no connection to the the G.E.E.T. guys and make NO money off my = free=20 energy research.  I sell my 'skills' to companies - my = 'ideas' and=20 knowledge are free to anyone interested enough to ask.  I also think we need some more positive discussion = after the=20 thread about the SMOT thing.
 
I saw the G.E.E.T. demo in Arizona = once and later=20 bought one when Paul Pantone and the team were visiting a small town = in=20 California.  He sold me a small 3.5 HP engine with a G.E.E.T. = device=20 installed.  It cost $700 (ouch).  They had a lot of devices = to show=20 both times I've seen them.  But I was interested in something I = could=20 take home and test myself.  After trying to by one of the 5kW = generators=20 they were selling and finding they were sold out, I resorted to buying = the=20 smaller demo unit.
 
It was very crude.  The whole = thing was=20 mounted on a 2"x12" plank.  The gas tank consisted of a Mason jar = filled=20 with steel wool and two brass tubes epoxied into the lid.  The = tubes were=20 3/8" threaded rod like the kind they sell at the hardware store for = lamps (ie=20 the thing you screw the lamp shade to).  Only the carb and = exhaust had=20 been replaced, the rest of the motor was completely stock (we made = sure of=20 this when we got it home).  The carb was replaced by two small = butterfly=20 valves like the kind you use to turn off the gas to your hot water=20 heater.  One is on the input tube which runs to the bottom of the = jar.  The input tube bubbles the fuel creating a mist at the top = of the=20 jar which is picked up by the output tube.  The other valve is = attached=20 to one side of a "T" fitting which allows air to be mixed with the = fuel coming=20 from the tank before going into the motor.  So one valve = controls=20 how much the tank bubbles, the other controls the air/fuel = ratio.  The=20 output is then routed to a 2 foot length of 1/2" inch steel pipe which = is=20 welded inside of the 1" exhaust pipe.  It is welded such that the = exhaust=20 is routed around the intake tube which is centered inside of it.  = The two=20 tubes remain sealed so that the fuel is not allowed to mix with the=20 exhaust.  The exhaust pipe is bent in a "Z" shape, and the ends = of the=20 intake tube are welded so that they stick out the ends of the vertical = bar of=20 the "Z".  The intake pipe is thick like regular galvanized water=20 pipe.  The exhaust pipe is thinner metal, more like standard = exhaust=20 tube.  The direction of fuel input is opposite that of exhaust=20 output.
 
At the ends of the input pipe are = brass fittings=20 that allow 1/4" steel tubing to be attached.  The fittings also = act as=20 stoppers for a 1/4"x18" steel rod that is placed inside of the = tube. =20 When the motor is running, the rod bounces back and forth against the=20 fittings.  This is one of the most important parts of the motor = and may=20 act as the 'catalytic cracker' for those familiar with petroleum=20 processing.
 
The exhaust pipe is about 2 feet = long, and has a=20 small muffler (looks like the original lawn mower engine muffler) on = the=20 end.  Another 1/4" steel tube runs from this exhaust pipe into = the input=20 valve of the fuel tank.  This way, some of the exhaust is routed = back=20 into the fuel tank creating pressure.  When the motor is running, = the=20 intake strokes produce a vacuum in the tank and the exhaust strokes = pressurize=20 it.  How much pressure is controlled by the valve on the input = side of=20 the tank, the amount of vaccuum is controlled by the valve on the = output side=20 of the tank.
 
To test the motor, we attached a 30 = volt=20 permanent magnet motor to be used as a generator and a constant load = (big=20 resister).  Enough to pull the RPM of the motor = down.
 
I've taken some digital shots of this = which I=20 will try to post on my website (http://home.earthlink.net/= ~pigmaniac/)=20 right after I post this.
 
Okay, now the good news.  We've = run this=20 thing for 10-20 hours now with some pretty cool results.  Let me = start by=20 saying that we've never seen it run on pure water or produce anything = that=20 seemed like real free energy, but the results are encouraging to say = the=20 least.
 
We began by experimenting with what = the motor=20 would run on.  It runs very good on gasoline or oil.  You = can run=20 pure used oil in it and it will barely smoke.  You can also run = things=20 like soda and coffee without it seizing up.  We ran it on various = combinations of gas and water and found that it would start and run on = as=20 little as 5% gas to 95% water.  Skeptics (like me) would say that = the=20 bubbler in the fuel tank is simply separating the gas from the water = before it=20 goes into the engine.  But that doesn't seem to be the = case.
 
When running on a 50/50 mixture of = gas and water,=20 the two quickly combine in the jar and produce a white milky = liquid.  The=20 mist produced in the top of the jar is equally milky.  Seeing = this makes=20 it hard to believe the gas and water are being separated.  If you = stop=20 the motor and allow the jar to sit overnight, the gas and water do not = separate.  In fact, once their mixed, they appear never to = separate=20 again, no matter how long you wait (we've waited up to 30 = days).
 
Another experiment involved adding = fresh water to=20 this milky mixture.  When we did, about 1/4 of the water went to = the=20 bottom of the jar, and the rest floated on the top, leaving the milk = as a=20 layer in between.  Hmmm, something strange is afoot at the=20 Circle-K...
 
Using a thermocouple I was able to = measure the=20 temperature at the top of the exhaust pipe (right next to the engine = barrel)=20 as well as at the muffler end.  The difference in temperatures = was=20 amazing.  It was between 700-800 degrees F at the engine side of = the=20 pipe, yet less that 2 feet of pipe later we never read anything hotter = than=20 160 degrees.
 
The emissions from this engine as = always very=20 cool and clean smelling.  You can put a paper towel over the = exhaust and=20 nothing will collect on it.  I watched the G.E.E.T. guys run an = 18 HP=20 version in a hotel room for 10 minutes and also noticed no smell of=20 gasoline.  There is some smoke when you run the engine on pure = engine oil=20 (especially used engine oil), but the motor runs much hotter as well = which=20 might explain it.  Still it's nice to know you can run on used = engine oil=20 if you run out of gas.
 
The most bizarre find is that as you = run the=20 engine on pure gas or a gas/water mixture, the fuel tank (mason jar) = gets=20 really cold.  Cold enough to condense water on the outside of = it. =20 This is by far the most surprising result.
 
The only real free energy tests I can = report=20 involve timing a full jar of pure gas versus a full jar of half gas = and half=20 water.  We found that with the same load attached, the 50/50 = mixture ran=20 for almost 45 minutes, while the pure gas jar only ran for 30 = minutes. =20 We repeated the results more than once.  And the times were = always within=20 3-5 minutes of each other, so even factoring in the error, we were = getting=20 about 5-10 minutes longer out of the 50/50 mixture.
 
It appears to me and my friends that = the water is=20 mixing with the fuel somehow to produce something that burns more = efficiently=20 than the fuel alone.  The coldness in the tank is probably = produced by=20 the pressure changes caused by the alternating intake and exhaust=20 strokes.  We have no clue why the gas and water are able to mix = together=20 or to burn more efficiently than the fuel alone.
 
The only problems we've had with the = motor were a=20 blown head gasket (when were still breaking the motor in) and cracks = in the=20 exhaust pipe from vibration.
 
So there is the long-winded = (fingered?)=20 truth.  This message is partially in response to a message I saw = recently=20 that said free energy guys never really make any progress, they just = talk a=20 lot.  I think I've made some progress in experimenting with this = and my=20 giant coils (see the "Magnetism =3D LI?" thread).  I'm hoping = others will=20 come forward to confirm some of these results and suggest other ways = of=20 confirming the apparent successful results.  We are planning on = mounting=20 the fuel tank in a tub of water and measuring the temperature changes = as we=20 run the motor.
 
Anyone else have any experience with = the G.E.E.T.=20 technology, good or bad?
 
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF9C6C.2E2C00E0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 09:17:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA28155; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:16:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:16:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:16:35 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Advertizing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"yqelj2.0.pt6.h9tvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I fear there may be an unwanted consequence of your policy. Anyone who > has something that works will probably want to make money from it. > Consequently the only things people can now talk about on the list, are > the things that don't work. "Talk about?" No, I would only ban selling, and only by the owner. I'm thinking of banning SELF-promotion. I guess I wasn't clear. *****SELF****** promotion. For example, we can talk about the Newman machine all we want, and even Newman can subscribe and talk about it, but if people then ask "where can I buy one", Newman had better remain VERY silent. That way the information isn't blocked (somebody else not associated with Newman's company can point out the Newman mail-order website.) Any inventors intending to use FREENRG-L to sell their inventions in the future will probably have big problems with such a rule. RIGHT! The rule cuts off their free advertizing channel, which is part of the intention. I don't want to hear commercial messages from free-energy salespeople. But that doesn't mean that we can't talk about buying XXX device for $YYY dollars. ONLY THE SALESMEN would be banned from self-promotion. If inventors have plans for their FE devices, it would be OK for them to advertize them on their own websites, and it would be OK for others to mention their availability, and the rule would only prevent the INVENTOR HIMSELF (or the inventor's own people) from using FREENRG-L to sell those plans. Where a real problem arises is when someone puts together a kit of parts, as in the Greg Watson episode. A zero-profit kit is not self promotion. Should they be allowed to make a profit? That's where the anti-fraud rule would interfere with science. In that case, the inventor would have to talk about it and get permission. In that case we could still proceed, but with everything under an intense spotlight of scrutiny, with lots of up-front guarantees, and with the clear knowledge that ripoffs had occurred in the past, so there's no reason to trust that a ripoff isn't underway again. Here's an idea. What if Greg Watson had been required to put up $1000 in a temporary fund, so that refunds could be guaranteed? If the deal was honest, he'd be happy to do it. But if he intended to reneg on refund requests from the start, his intentions would have been exposed early on. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 10:01:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05915; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 10:01:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 10:01:12 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:59:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? Message-ID: <20000402.095925.-270837.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-9,15-16,20-21 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"nJ6Ki3.0.FS1.Nptvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I lost my hundred bucks. :-( He did not behave like he was trying to rip people off, more like he was self deceived. His SMOT web page at ( http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ ) is gone. It was amazing how long he left it up. He should still refund the money though. A strange story. Remember the fellow from Europe who called himself Epitaxy. He claimed that he made closed-loop SMOT with a hollow glass marble filled with iron powder travelling on glass rails. He said it ran around several times before becoming unstable and falling off the track and sticking to one of the magnets. Tragically, Epitaxy was supposed to have died in a car accident shortly afterwards. A paranoid speculation: Maybe the SMOT really did demonstrate that ferromagnetism is a route to free energy and somebody did not want that revealed. I would have been more impressed though, with at least one movie of Greg's closed loop demo. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 16:24:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA14363; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:23:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:23:40 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The G.E.E.T. Motor Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:22:59 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <002201bf9c9a$27acdcc0$bd8ff5d1@dell> <001c01bf9caf$3d7438e0$9fa270d1@markross> In-Reply-To: <001c01bf9caf$3d7438e0$9fa270d1@markross> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA14206 Resent-Message-ID: <"bU7HF3.0.IW3.xPzvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 2 Apr 2000 06:25:03 -0800, sparky wrote: >I made one last fall on a 3HPengine . I had the same results that you had. I had to stop testing because in cold weather the fuel and water mix freeze in the bubbler. I will do more work on it this summer. PS Iive in Alaska.:o) [snip] Does it freeze when the motor is not in use, or when it is in use? If the latter, then perhaps you can redirect the exhaust so that it blows past the bubbler, keeping it warm. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 16:40:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA19728; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:39:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:39:58 -0700 Message-ID: <38E7C10F.AEA095A2@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 00:52:15 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? References: <20000402.095925.-270837.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wz7-h3.0.4q4.Efzvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14644 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: tv@juno.com wrote: > > I lost my hundred bucks. :-( > > He did not behave like he was trying to rip people off, more like he was > self deceived. > I am 100% sure that he was suppressed. And the money fraud is the part of the scenario for discredit himself. Letters shows clearly how the trouble "the company" take him over. You can see the stress on these letters. > His SMOT web page at ( http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ ) is > gone. It was amazing how long he left it up. > > He should still refund the money though. > > A strange story. Remember the fellow from Europe who called himself > Epitaxy. He claimed that he made closed-loop SMOT with a hollow glass > marble filled with iron powder travelling on glass rails. He said it ran > around several times before becoming unstable and falling off the track > and sticking to one of the magnets. Tragically, Epitaxy was supposed to > have died in a car accident shortly afterwards. Just learned now this. Too bad. Last letter of Epitaxy was about the confirmation of his success. You can not name this a coincidence. These events are not statistical. There is no statistic about demonstrations of over unity machines and tragic accidents . We must feel ourselves very happy by failing to reproduce the SMOT. > A paranoid speculation: Maybe the SMOT really did demonstrate that > ferromagnetism is a route to free energy and somebody did not want that > revealed. I would have been more impressed though, with at least one > movie of Greg's closed loop demo. > > Tim One point: The iron powder remind me the De Aquino gravity shielding setup. It needs ELF be absorbed by the powder. The SMOT ball passing trough magnetic field cause induction and ELF inside. If this ELF cause the ball weight less, then this help it climb ing, and gain energy. Not a remote possibility I think. hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 16:50:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA22556; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:50:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:50:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000701bf9cff$61670c00$4ca970d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <002201bf9c9a$27acdcc0$bd8ff5d1@dell> <001c01bf9caf$3d7438e0$9fa270d1@markross> Subject: Re: The G.E.E.T. Motor Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 15:58:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"zxxIu2.0.LW5.zozvu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The water vapor in the exhaust would freeze in the tube that lets the exaust to the bubbler at or about 35 degrees. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 3:22 PM Subject: Re: The G.E.E.T. Motor > On Sun, 2 Apr 2000 06:25:03 -0800, sparky wrote: > > >I made one last fall on a 3HPengine . I had the same results that you had. I had to stop testing because in cold weather the fuel and water mix freeze in the bubbler. I will do more work on it this summer. PS Iive in Alaska.:o) > [snip] > Does it freeze when the motor is not in use, or when it is in use? If the > latter, then perhaps you can redirect the exhaust so that it blows past the > bubbler, keeping it warm. > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 17:20:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA30236; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 17:19:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 17:19:45 -0700 Message-ID: <005601bf9d02$578b36e0$fad666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: References: Subject: Re: Advertizing Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 20:19:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"r7o1E1.0.LO7.WE-vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In that case, could YOU inform us of products for sale by a person on the list if the product is related to...whatever it should be related to. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Advertizing > > > I fear there may be an unwanted consequence of your policy. Anyone who > > has something that works will probably want to make money from it. > > Consequently the only things people can now talk about on the list, are > > the things that don't work. > > "Talk about?" > > No, I would only ban selling, and only by the owner. I'm thinking of > banning SELF-promotion. I guess I wasn't clear. *****SELF****** > promotion. > > For example, we can talk about the Newman machine all we want, and even > Newman can subscribe and talk about it, but if people then ask "where can > I buy one", Newman had better remain VERY silent. That way the > information isn't blocked (somebody else not associated with Newman's > company can point out the Newman mail-order website.) > > Any inventors intending to use FREENRG-L to sell their inventions in the > future will probably have big problems with such a rule. RIGHT! The rule > cuts off their free advertizing channel, which is part of the intention. > I don't want to hear commercial messages from free-energy salespeople. > But that doesn't mean that we can't talk about buying XXX device for $YYY > dollars. ONLY THE SALESMEN would be banned from self-promotion. > > If inventors have plans for their FE devices, it would be OK for them to > advertize them on their own websites, and it would be OK for others to > mention their availability, and the rule would only prevent the INVENTOR > HIMSELF (or the inventor's own people) from using FREENRG-L to sell those > plans. > > Where a real problem arises is when someone puts together a kit of parts, > as in the Greg Watson episode. A zero-profit kit is not self promotion. > Should they be allowed to make a profit? That's where the anti-fraud rule > would interfere with science. In that case, the inventor would have to > talk about it and get permission. In that case we could still proceed, > but with everything under an intense spotlight of scrutiny, with lots of > up-front guarantees, and with the clear knowledge that ripoffs had > occurred in the past, so there's no reason to trust that a ripoff isn't > underway again. > > Here's an idea. What if Greg Watson had been required to put up $1000 in > a temporary fund, so that refunds could be guaranteed? If the deal was > honest, he'd be happy to do it. But if he intended to reneg on refund > requests from the start, his intentions would have been exposed early on. > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 17:33:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00457; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 17:32:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 17:32:34 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The G.E.E.T. Motor Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:31:55 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <002201bf9c9a$27acdcc0$bd8ff5d1@dell> <001c01bf9caf$3d7438e0$9fa270d1@markross> <000701bf9cff$61670c00$4ca970d1@markross> In-Reply-To: <000701bf9cff$61670c00$4ca970d1@markross> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA00434 Resent-Message-ID: <"3Dbw_1.0.17.WQ-vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 2 Apr 2000 15:58:43 -0800, sparky wrote: >The water vapor in the exhaust would freeze in the tube that lets the exaust >to the bubbler at or about 35 degrees. [snip] This I don't understand. Are you saying that the exhaust itself is freezing? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 18:34:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA16695; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 18:33:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 18:33:44 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Magnetism = LI? Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 21:31:26 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <000f01bf9c54$54ebf900$ea8bf7d1@dell> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"gVlxC3.0.l44.tJ_vu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Scott & All Sounds like you've made some impressive coils, Scott. 3.5 henry on an air core coil is big, with 15kohm of resistance? Did you measure the self resonant frequency of the coil? It would be interesting to determine the distributed capacity from it. I've used that winding technique as well, more as a means to evenly distribute voltage gradients than to increase capacity. Just guessing on this end I'd say the capacity was certainly greater than 1000pf, maybe to 10000pf. That'd put the resonance in the voice audio range, ~3000hz to 1000hz. Is that what you mean by "leakage"? That you're approaching resonance? I seem to remember Chris Tinsley was working on a motor like this, using an external capacitor and claiming high efficiencies. I'm not sure what happened to it, best ask Gene Mallove or maybe Jed Rothwell, or Rick M on the list here I think. K. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Zimmerman [mailto:pigmaniac@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:34 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? > I am sure that all this is in the timing and that it has nothing to do with a > "critical mass" of copper or monstrusously large coils with huge impedances. How are you 'sure' of this? Please tell me a little about your experiments and your results. What kind of DC motors have you been modifying? I'd be up for doing some testing with your ideas, but you've been pretty vague so far. I'm all ears (or is it eyes), ...Z From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 20:33:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA15707; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 20:33:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 20:33:26 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01bf9d1e$727ae6a0$a8a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <002201bf9c9a$27acdcc0$bd8ff5d1@dell> <001c01bf9caf$3d7438e0$9fa270d1@markross> <000701bf9cff$61670c00$4ca970d1@markross> Subject: Re: The G.E.E.T. Motor Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:41:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"0d_8K3.0.Kr3.641wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yea. like I said, in the bubbler. From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 4:31 PM Subject: Re: The G.E.E.T. Motor > On Sun, 2 Apr 2000 15:58:43 -0800, sparky wrote: > > >The water vapor in the exhaust would freeze in the tube that lets the exaust > >to the bubbler at or about 35 degrees. > [snip] > This I don't understand. Are you saying that the exhaust itself is freezing? > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 00:34:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA08638; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 00:34:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 00:34:40 -0700 Message-ID: <002001bf9d3f$210772e0$eefab3d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: "Ted Gondert" , References: <38E80F65.7E126DB6@teleweb.net> Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 00:33:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"yqpfO3.0.t62.Gc4wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Ted, > But Joseph Newman doesn't understand how to apply the > formula that he mentions E=L(dI)/(dT) or Volts equals Inductance times > amps per second. He mentions it turns at 137 RPM or something but uses > that period to calculate the inductance. Joseph Newman calculates > inductance of coil at 360 Henries but that is probably too high. When > the current is suddenly stopped the magnetic field collapses faster than > it increased when the power is applied. THIS HAS BEEN KNOWN FOR OVER 100 > YEARS!! IT'S HOW SPARK COILS IN FORD MODEL T WORKED. :-) Great Ted. That's exactly right, the magnetic field collapses faster than it expanded when the power was applied (meaning the backspike lasted for a fraction of the time the input power was applied). Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 40 volts (at some constant current) for 1 second is equal to 1 volt for 40 seconds? > I just did simple test with a pound or so of #24 wire left on a reel. It > gives over 40 volt pulse when a 1.2 volt NiCad battery was connected and > disconnected. Hope your experiments are fun but try some research in > previous science. No reason to "keep re-inventing the wheel" But see, there is a reason to re-invent the wheel. This is how we learn things. So you get this big spike when you disconnect the power. Don't you get the same thing when you unplug a long coiled up extension cord? > PS. Joseph Newman has been auctioning machine #5 for over two weeks now, > supposedly the bid is $4000. So why doesn't Joe just sell it and build > another? Never has a working self-running model. Personally, I don't need a self-running model. My goal is to know something tomorrow that I didn't know today. So if I can prove that copper magnet wire contains energy that can be released in someway - whether someone else has or not - I'm happy. If you look for the bad in things, you will surely find it. The same is true for the good. So let's keep it positive. I hope your experiments are fun and I would never presume to tell you what to try. Thanks for your encouraging comments and for posting your results. All the best in the future, ...Z P.S. The best thing about the free energy game is that there are NO losers... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 00:34:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA08608; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 00:34:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 00:34:33 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01bf9d3f$1fca10e0$eefab3d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: References: Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 22:58:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ts2ww2.0.P62.9c4wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Keith, Thanks for the encouragement. I really enjoyed your message on the "SELF-PROMOTION" thread. Sounds like your heart is in the right place. > Sounds like you've made some impressive coils, Scott. 3.5 henry on an > air core coil is big, with 15kohm of resistance? Did you measure > the self resonant frequency of the coil? We tried a couple of times using the old 'grid dip' method of adjusting the frequency and looking for a spike, but there was no obvious point of resonance using the tools I had. I'm not exactly sure why. All I know is that when we had the 3.5 H coil attached to a nice HP bridge, we could only get to about 300 Hz before the bridge would start thinking the coil was a capacitor. As I recall, it was reading about 1 microfarad of capacitance. But I wasn't that interested in the capacitance at that point, so I didn't pay much attention. What I wanted to know was would I get any magnetism out of the coil, and if so, how would it compare to smaller coil. > Just guessing on this > end I'd say the capacity was certainly greater than 1000pf, > maybe to 10000pf. That'd put the resonance in the > voice audio range, ~3000hz to 1000hz. Is that what you mean by "leakage"? > That you're approaching resonance? I used to think that, but now I'm thinking that maybe the coil just doesn't get enough time to charge up at high frequencies. If you're right about the 10000pf, wouldn't that mean an RC time constant of something like 0.15 seconds? If so, at 300 Hz you're only getting 0.003 seconds to charge the coil. To be honest, I am no double-E. I am a self-taught computer programmer that caught the free-energy bug like most people catch a cold. I thought I might be able to help the cause by doing some of the grunt work that not everyone has the time/patience to do. I'm kind of counting on people like you to help me decipher what I'm seeing. This is what prompted my original question: Is it an established fact that these large coils will produce more magnetism than smaller versions with less input power? My double-E friends told me that it was an established fact they would not, but then were unable to prove it when the coil was sitting in front of them. > I seem to remember Chris Tinsley > was working on a motor like this, using an external capacitor > and claiming high efficiencies. I'm not sure what happened > to it, best ask Gene Mallove or maybe Jed Rothwell, or Rick M on > the list here I think. Thanks for the tip. This is the kind of thing that makes this list so great. I haven't been playing with the coils lately (I've been playing with gyros instead), but I may just have to brush them off and start measuring again. Thanks again for the encouraging and constructive comments. ...Z From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 02:56:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA30050; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:55:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:55:50 -0700 From: RoConroy@aol.com Message-ID: <70.219da47.2619c47d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 05:55:09 EDT Subject: Re: Advertizing To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"dB-rc1.0.QL7.bg6wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/2/00 11:19:33 AM Central Daylight Time, billb@eskimo.com writes: << Here's an idea. What if Greg Watson had been required to put up $1000 in a temporary fund, so that refunds could be guaranteed? If the deal was honest, he'd be happy to do it. But if he intended to reneg on refund requests from the start, his intentions would have been exposed early on. >> I don't know about you, but $1000 is a lot of money. What I do with respect to plans for my free energy device, a simple energy collector, and low cost energy conservation designs is simply put them on a ftp site as share ware. If someone who downloads them is not 100% satisfied, you can bet they will not send in anything. Example: URL: http://hometown.aol.com/dometruss The fabrication plans are detailed and there are step by step photos of fabrication and construction. Energy calculations are also provided along with associated WEB sites which can help in overall construction. Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 03:20:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32716; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:19:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:19:58 -0700 Message-ID: <38E87064.6055@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 06:20:20 -0400 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: British Patent Office email Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iQUCm.0.5_7.E17wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >All Bruce is asking for is the recognition of the work he has >done. THATS IT!!!!!! Merlyn I agree exactly, It seems Bruce has spent to many valuable hrs trying to get such a simple point across, the mails I've read are clear and to the point. I agree 100% with him. I don't know how many of you have tried to scan and format a book or hundreds of pages, but its not a job many would do. I have spent hundreds of hrs searching the net and libraries for Radiant energy information, during this time I bought Bruce's, Moray CD, The Holy Grail and some others. Its the best deal I've ever found. For example on the Moray CD there are copies of Beyond the Light Rays which I would never have found not to mention the time and searching it would have taken to find the bits I could. Some people in this world just aren't nice and I am glad there are people who take time out of there busy day to answer E-mails, Scan documents so others can get them free or very cheap etc, etc. I for one am gratefull. Gary Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 03:28:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA01274; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:28:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:28:18 -0700 Message-ID: <38E87257.38F4@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 06:28:39 -0400 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: British Patent Office email] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"5hq1l.0.kJ.197wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from lbmail1.listbot.com ([204.71.191.23]) by mail1.fcgnetworks.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA06166 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:20:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 17513 invoked by uid 108); 2 Apr 2000 01:20:03 -0000 Mailing-List: ListBot mailing list contact nuenergy-help@listbot.com Delivered-To: mailing list nuenergy@listbot.com Reply-To: "Nu Energy Horizons" Received: (qmail 25279 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2000 01:24:29 -0000 Received: from nevada1.midiowa.net (HELO nevada1.nevia.net) (209.152.64.1) by lb4.listbot.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2000 01:24:29 -0000 Received: from PII-400 (Nevada-ARC1-106.dialup.midiowa.net [209.152.64.106]) by nevada1.nevia.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA07543 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:19:55 -0600 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: "Nu Energy Horizons" Subject: Re: British Patent Office email Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 01:20:15 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Message-ID: <38e99ec2.84996578@mail.midiowa.net> References: <38E686EA.1F75@cyberportal.net> In-Reply-To: <38E686EA.1F75@cyberportal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mail1.fcgnetworks.net id UAA06166 Nu Energy Horizons - http://www.nuenergy.org Hi Bruce, On Sat, 01 Apr 2000 18:31:54 -0500, "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: [Apparently, Bill Beatty wrote:] >> >> There is a failure of communication here. "Public domain" means "owned by >> the public". Those patents were always in the ownership of the public, >> whether or not the public new they existed, or had any access to them. >> Nothing you did changed their ownership status. >> >> If you state that they are not in the public domain, you might cause >> yourself some trouble, because people might take you for a liar or fool, >> or as someone who is trying to claim ownership of public property. In >> reality I think you simply misunderstand what the term "public domain" >> means. Those patents were not known, or easily found, but they were, and >> are, in the public domain. >No matter how the cookie crumbles here I have been once again deprived >of deserved credit. Jerry and Fred took the fruits of my labor and took >credit for the contribution. I have many more gifts to share with human >kind that are new discoveries. However... this situation leaves a bitter >feeling and I am having second thoughts of sharing anything more. What >does it matter if these patents are "public domain?" It is a matter of >ethics. I fully agree with you here *ASSUMING you did the research, transfer to computer, and publication of the patents.* The "collection" copyright provides the owner of the copyright to control the results of his efforts, even though the original, non-collected material, is in the public domain. This is true for books on myths (Fraser), folk music (Seeger, Lomax), and any other collection. Nothing can be directly copied from the collections without permission from the copyright holder. But anyone is free to do their own collecting and publishing of the same data (but they'd better be able to prove they did the actual work, and not just repeating copies of whatever someone else sends them from copyrighted sources). -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to nuenergy-unsubscribe@listbot.com ______________________________________________________________________ Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 03:48:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA03624; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:48:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 03:48:24 -0700 Message-ID: <38E87709.7C54@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 06:48:41 -0400 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill & Rhodi Davidson Subject: UPDATE References: <000101bf9c5b$56ce9780$9ab2110c@matnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"arfGf3.0.Xu.uR7wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Dear Bruce, > Hello, from Alaska, curious to know if any further developments on the > Nu Fuel cell? Progress is slow... I just made two 3" x 3" anode plates over the weekend. They will be dipped in solution for a few hours today. A bucket of catalyst material was also made for the cathode material. The cells will be tested this week and if all goes well then 40 lbs of carbon and 10 lbs of anode material will be ordered along with more copper screen. Over the weekend Jacek and myself finished up on an ozone generator that is a spin-off product. It was tested and is now ready to be demonstrated to companies that may be interested in this type of product. This generator puts out high volumes of ozone that can be used in many applications. The first application that comes to mind is a swimming pool water purifier. This invention replaces the chlorine in your pool with ozone. All you do is place the hose in the pool and withing five minutes you have a bacteria free pool to swim in... and you did not need to use a toxic chemical to get this result. -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 04:06:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA06695; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 04:05:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 04:05:44 -0700 Message-ID: <38E87B1A.FEF@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 07:06:02 -0400 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nu Energy Horizons Subject: Re: "RADIO IONICS" (Moray's radiant energy) References: <4B8B35CF9C45D11194F7006008375A955689CF@zeus.dsalaska.com> <38E110D0.6746@cyberportal.net> <38E1D7F0.86DD8@astra.ukf.net> <38E24E2C.5ECC@cyberportal.net> <38E29581.CD60DBD4@microtec.net> <38E35AD9.32EF@cyberportal.net> <003901bf9aae$2a696340$8 9d666ce@default> <38E49046.36C9@cyberportal.net> <38E58D7D.D8A1303B@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FxkL13.0.We1.7i7wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14656 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike Johnston wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > I'd like to bring up two points. Maybe they are relevant and maybe not. > 1) Are you talking about real, normal ions? I ask this because electrolysis > is accomplished by the use of ions. Yes... What are air ions? Are they not an electrochemical reaction? <> -BAP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 04:22:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA09109; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 04:22:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 04:22:05 -0700 Message-ID: <38E87EF2.372A@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 07:22:26 -0400 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: alexfrol@spb.cityline.ru Subject: Re: Comments to Ionics References: <38E514DD.4C5C@cyberportal.net> <38E59EB6.E90F0B98@spb.cityline.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eEr1y2.0.EE2.Sx7wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alex, You do me great honor by addressing me as "Dr." In my own right I guess this title is well earned. It is very good to hear that you have been following the same lines of research. I hope to meet with you some day. It will probably happen when we are both old and gray... heck I'm already getting a few gray hairs. Hang in there my Russian friend... the world will eat the fruits from our table when it gets hungry enough. When they come to our house for dinner we will be ready to serve them the full course meal. ;-) Warm Regards, Bruce A. Perreault Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Hello, Dr. Perreault, > > I am glad to see your new work. Let me write here some comments since I > worked on it also and the idea was to GENERALIZE notion of current from > electrical to some universal current. Electrons produce electric > current, protons produce proton current, neutral mass (neutrons) produce > ... Also I made simple experiments to create moving hot mass (heat > source) and this kind of current produce some field that is named as > chronal field since the heat source is considered as local change of > energy density, i.e. chronal charge. Also it can be some cold mass or > cold source, i.e. the matter is local hot or cold area as the charge. > > So, this is new step in science: to generalize the notion of > current, and after this step the theory is similar to well-known > electromagnetics: current should be the reason for some field, the > gradient of this field will be the reason for force! Electric field is > working to move electrons or electrically charged masses. What about > other fields? Yes, they should be working with their corresponding > "charge" > > Ionics is one of possible view to plasma processes, and it can be > useful for many systems where is the plasma in energy exchange process. > > I am sure you'll see some GRAVITY effects in area of your ion flow. > What about coil (solenoid coil) of ion current? The field should be > concentrated like magnetic field of electric current coil. > > Best regards, > > Alexander V. Frolov > ------ > Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > Radio Ionics > >day I had been running some tests with a solid-state valve circuit that > I had discovered back in 1996. This ion valve rectifies negative and > positive ion flow. It does not rectify electron current. > >The discharge from my solid-state valve circuit is an ion discharge > where negative and positive ions >rush head-on and cancel each other out > resulting in a cold white discharge. > >Electron flow through a conductive circuit is called "electronics." > Therefore, ion flow through a > >conductive circuit must be called "ionics." > >wavelength comes in to play. Such a high rate of oscillation or rate of > transfer would have to be a > >very short wavelength, so we would have the 1578 terahertz frequency. > >To carry this current ionically means to transfer electrons OUTSIDE the > wire. This changes > >everything about inductance and capacitance in the circuitry (relating > to ionics). > >...and can also use that primer to tap the rest of the sea of energy. > > The only time conventional ohmic law applies is when you have > electrons traveling INSIDE the >wire. In the wire, electron mean > velocity is about 1 cm per second. In the air, IONIC electron >transfer > is much faster. This changes the whole picture on electrodynamics in a > closed circuit. > >Could the Moray power tubes be considered as cells but, instead of a > solid or liquid > >electrolyte, it has a gas plasma one. The plasma in air, of course, has > ozone etc. > >The valve separates negative ions and positive ions, not electrons. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 06:01:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA25883; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 06:00:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 06:00:43 -0700 Message-ID: <38E89610.3561@cyberportal.net> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:01:04 -0400 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aris CC: nuenergy@listbot.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UPDATE References: <000101bf9c5b$56ce9780$9ab2110c@matnet.com> <38E87709.7C54@cyberportal.net> <001d01bf9d61$de04ac60$933056c3@avd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1QbsG1.0.KK6.xN9wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Aris wrote: > > > Progress is slow... I just made two 3" x 3" anode plates over the > > weekend. > > They will be dipped in solution for a few hours today. A bucket of > > catalyst > > material was also made for the cathode material. The cells will be > > > > This doesn't sound very difficult and I always love to make my own cells... > Soo please Bruce gimme some more building info... > > (in plain english!!) It's all there on my website. I am using this method for the plate forming process http://www.nuenergy.org/process.htm -Bruce A. Perreault From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 06:16:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA30037; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 06:16:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 06:16:13 -0700 Message-Id: <200004031323.e33DN6R13777@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:18:05 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Magnetism = LI? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <000f01bf9c54$54ebf900$ea8bf7d1@dell> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Resent-Message-ID: <"Qksw82.0.EL7.Sc9wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Hi Scott & All > > Sounds like you've made some impressive coils, Scott. 3.5 henry on an > air core coil is big, with 15kohm of resistance? Did you measure > the self resonant frequency of the coil? It would be interesting > to determine the distributed capacity from it. I've used that > winding technique as well, more as a means to evenly distribute > voltage gradients than to increase capacity. Just guessing on this > end I'd say the capacity was certainly greater than 1000pf, > maybe to 10000pf. That'd put the resonance in the > voice audio range, ~3000hz to 1000hz. Is that what you mean by "leakage"? > That you're approaching resonance? > Haven't you tried the winding method called "honeycomb" as used in the old AM radios ? Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br ------------------------------------------- Get paid to surf the WEB ! Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 ------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 09:39:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA30489; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:38:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:38:57 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:35:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200004031635.MAA29058@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? Resent-Message-ID: <"5CleO1.0.IS7.WaCwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tim (tv@juno.com) wrote: ...Remember the fellow from Europe who called himself Epitaxy... I personally would not be surprised to find that Epitaxy was a pseudonym for Greg Watson, which he used to help self-promote his SMOTs. I'm sorry, Hamdi, but I cannot subscribe to any suppression theory! Greg may have been self-deluded, but he did rip everyone off. No amount of suppression could force someone to criminally take monies from others, IMHO. Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 09:50:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA01648; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:50:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:50:24 -0700 X-Sent: 3 Apr 2000 16:49:43 GMT Message-ID: <009501bf9d8c$f5885c80$8c0743d8@user> From: "Dan Hicks" To: Subject: Re: COOOOOL java-based simulation Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:52:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xoG4f.0.fP.FlCwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris, Very cool, thanks Dan -----Original Message----- From: Chris O'Barr +ADw-paradis2+AEA-peganet.com+AD4- To: freenrg-l+AEA-eskimo.com +ADw-freenrg-l+AEA-eskimo.com+AD4- Date: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:06 PM Subject: Re: COOOOOL java-based simulation +AD4- Whoa, that things pretty cool... +AD4------ Original Message ----- +AD4-From: William Beaty +ADw-billb+AEA-eskimo.com+AD4- +AD4-To: +ADw-sciclub-list+AEA-eskimo.com+AD4- +AD4-Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 5:29 PM +AD4-Subject: COOOOOL java-based simulation +AD4- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4APg- See +ACI-constructor+ACI- below. A tinkertoy set.... that's ALIVE+ACEAIQAhACEAIQAh- +AD4APg- +AD4APg- +AD4APg- +AD4-((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) +AD4APg- William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website +AD4APg- billb+AEA-eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com +AD4APg- EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science +AD4APg- Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L +AD4APg- +AD4APg- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- +AD4APg- Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:57:28 -0500 +AD4APg- From: Joseph Bellina +ADw-jbellina+AEA-SAINTMARYS.EDU+AD4- +AD4APg- Reply-To: +ACI-phys-l+AEA-lists.nau.edu: Forum for Physics Educators+ACI- +AD4APg- +ADw-PHYS-L+AEA-lists.nau.edu+AD4- +AD4APg- To: PHYS-L+AEA-lists.nau.edu +AD4APg- Subject: Some fun +AD4APg- +AD4APg- Take a look at the web-site...its clever. +AD4APg- +AD4APg- http://www.soda.co.uk/soda/constructor/ +AD4APg- +AD4APg- have a nice weekend +AD4APg- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 11:12:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30812; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:12:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:12:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001901bf9d97$b07d7de0$0a00a8c0@skot> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Winter Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:03:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"oQsy_.0.HX7.xxDwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael T. Huffman wrote: > >These [freznel] lenses are 33-1/4" wide by 24-1/2" long by 3/32" thick, and can be >used for a solar collector. I would probably get one to see how well the >idea worked, and then get enough to cover a much larger area, like the side >of your house or a portion of your roof. In the summertime, you just remove >the lenses, and cover the black portions of the solar collector with Al foil >to reflect heat. > These make a solar furnace. If the focal point was 2 inches or smaller a black object under it with direct sunlight would reach 2000 - 3000 deg F. unless it's a well designed boiler to carry away the heat. For solar heating in the winter, I've heard that passive non-directional collectors ( three layers of plastic in front of a collection plate with insulation behind it ) can reach 110 deg F on a cloudy 32 deg F day. scottb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 11:34:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04963; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:32:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:32:52 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01bf9d9a$80dc2a20$0a00a8c0@skot> From: "skot" To: "fr" Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:29:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"ofI2z.0.SD1.JFEwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> PS. Joseph Newman has been auctioning machine #5 for over two weeks now, >> supposedly the bid is $4000. So why doesn't Joe just sell it and build >> another? Never has a working self-running model. It's my opinion ( haven't checked it yet ) that many of these motors are approached wrong. When they have a design which seems to defy reality, they demonstrate by running on batteries and say, "Look it doesn't really ever go dead, for the most part, kinda." Thinking in a box that they have to make it use no power at all. From what I've heard about the Gray motor for example, I small conventional generator driven by the motor might keep the battery charged, with torque left over. Or drive a larger generator ( matched to the output of the motor ) to keep the battery charged and have power to spare ( even if only a little ). In that case a small low impedance capacitor bank could be left on as the battery was removed to instantly show overunity. ( Stay running while driving a small light bulb. ) My two cents scottb scottb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 11:58:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12129; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:56:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:56:56 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Winter Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:08:36 -0400 Message-ID: <20000403190836250.AAA200@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"JYCat2.0.Lz2.tbEwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scottb writes: >These make a solar furnace. If the focal point was 2 inches >or smaller a black object under it with direct sunlight >would reach 2000 - 3000 deg F. unless it's a well designed >boiler to carry away the heat. > >For solar heating in the winter, I've heard that passive >non-directional collectors ( three layers of plastic in >front of a collection plate with insulation behind it ) can >reach 110 deg F on a cloudy 32 deg F day. > > scottb Hi Scott, I haven't studied this in the depth that you have, and I find this interesting. The larger of the lenses in the catalog that I quoted had a focal length of 36", which may make them entirely impractical, I don't know. I would have gotten the smaller lense, to experiment with first, in addition to looking up further studies on the performance characteristics before building a larger one, to be sure. Everybody knows that a regular lense can ignite paper if held at the exact focal length from it, but I didn't realize that a Freznel lense could be used to obtain temps of 2000 - 3000 degrees F. That's more than hot enough for a lot of industrial uses. I'm pretty sure that the model that my Dad had used only one lense, but I'm not positive, although it still performed on cloudy days. It used a thermostatically controlled set of fans to move the hot air from the collector box into the house, and it had louvered grates that would shut at night to prevent heat escaping when the sun was not available. Maybe the key for this type of application is to not let the sun's rays focus directly on a surface to avoid overheating. It would seem that it would be most efficient if it *were* focused on a black surface, but I wouldn't want it to burn the house down either. I would definitely read up some more on it before I built one myself, but I know that they are quite practical when properly designed. Here in Central Florida, for example, we don't get harsh winters, but the temps do drop into the 40's and 50's during the day and as low as the 20's at night for a short periods of time. Something like a solar collector would almost eliminate those heating costs altogether, and could be designed to heat water during the rest of the year. The sun is free down here, at least for now, and we sure get enough of it year round. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 12:19:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17441; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:17:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:17:09 -0700 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: A little patent humor Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:16:17 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <38E34C72.182BDD01@ihug.co.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"tFE7G3.0.NG4.quEwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John and all, I've looked pretty hard for the silly thing but I've lost it. It was British, and from the 80's, but I can't remember the patent class-- no class for time machines :-) It wasn't really al that interesting in itself, just that it had been patented at all. Sorry, Fred > > > Time machine? I can't resist... > spill. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 12:34:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA21904; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:33:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:33:51 -0700 Message-ID: <003c01bf9da3$135daec0$0a00a8c0@skot> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Winter Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:30:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"cgJ8N.0.3M5.T8Fwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In general, solar collectors for space heating don't need Freznel lenses. If you wanted to make electricity with high pressure steam, these lenses replace expensive concave mirrors. Such a system ( with lenses or mirrors ) need direct sun and a tracking system. A flat passive system is non-directional ( no tracking needed ) and at the same time is omni-directional ( can gather from a wide angle ) so it actually gathers usable heat from the infared bouncing back from the clouds. I replied directly ( not freenrg-l ) because are getting off topic. ( Though solar is the "unsuppressed" free energy source. ) scottb -----Original Message----- From: Michael T Huffman To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 12:14 PM Subject: Re: Winter >Scottb writes: >>These make a solar furnace. If the focal point was 2 inches >>or smaller a black object under it with direct sunlight >>would reach 2000 - 3000 deg F. unless it's a well designed >>boiler to carry away the heat. >> >>For solar heating in the winter, I've heard that passive >>non-directional collectors ( three layers of plastic in >>front of a collection plate with insulation behind it ) can >>reach 110 deg F on a cloudy 32 deg F day. >> >> scottb > >Hi Scott, > >I haven't studied this in the depth that you have, and I find this >interesting. The larger of the lenses in the catalog that I quoted had a >focal length of 36", which may make them entirely impractical, I don't know. >I would have gotten the smaller lense, to experiment with first, in addition >to looking up further studies on the performance characteristics before >building a larger one, to be sure. Everybody knows that a regular lense can >ignite paper if held at the exact focal length from it, but I didn't realize >that a Freznel lense could be used to obtain temps of 2000 - 3000 degrees F. >That's more than hot enough for a lot of industrial uses. > >I'm pretty sure that the model that my Dad had used only one lense, but I'm >not positive, although it still performed on cloudy days. It used a >thermostatically controlled set of fans to move the hot air from the >collector box into the house, and it had louvered grates that would shut at >night to prevent heat escaping when the sun was not available. Maybe the >key for this type of application is to not let the sun's rays focus directly >on a surface to avoid overheating. It would seem that it would be most >efficient if it *were* focused on a black surface, but I wouldn't want it to >burn the house down either. > >I would definitely read up some more on it before I built one myself, but I >know that they are quite practical when properly designed. Here in Central >Florida, for example, we don't get harsh winters, but the temps do drop into >the 40's and 50's during the day and as low as the 20's at night for a short >periods of time. Something like a solar collector would almost eliminate >those heating costs altogether, and could be designed to heat water during >the rest of the year. The sun is free down here, at least for now, and we >sure get enough of it year round. > >Knuke >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 13:33:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24425; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:30:45 +0100 To: Sparky Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? References: <000f01bf9c54$54ebf900$ea8bf7d1@dell> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Resent-Message-ID: <"gUBUW3.0.Oz5.0_Fwu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In message , Keith Nagel writes >Hi Scott & All > >Sounds like you've made some impressive coils, Scott. 3.5 henry on an >air core coil is big, with 15kohm of resistance? Did you measure >the self resonant frequency of the coil? It would be interesting >to determine the distributed capacity from it. I've used that >winding technique as well, more as a means to evenly distribute >voltage gradients than to increase capacity. Just guessing on this >end I'd say the capacity was certainly greater than 1000pf, >maybe to 10000pf. That'd put the resonance in the >voice audio range, ~3000hz to 1000hz. Is that what you mean by "leakage"? >That you're approaching resonance? > >I seem to remember Chris Tinsley >was working on a motor like this, using an external capacitor >and claiming high efficiencies. I'm not sure what happened >to it, best ask Gene Mallove or maybe Jed Rothwell, or Rick M on >the list here I think. > >K. The motor that I designed with Chris Tinsley (before his tragic death) was a switched reluctance motor operated with the coils tuned at parallel resonance with an external capacitor. The switching of the external pulsed supply to the coils was carefully timed to augment the current at the correct point on the resonant sine wave. Obviously it only ran in the correct mode for one particular rpm, (set by the resonant frequency of the L-C circuit.) It was a pig to get it operating at the correct point. We occasionally had it running, (driving a permanent magnet motor used as a generator into a resistive load), at what appeared to be efficiencies in excess of 100% for periods of roughly 10 to 20 seconds before the system lost sync and slowly ran down and stopped. I put in a patent application at the time (I still have the application) but had insufficient funds to carry through the patent process. I think that the over-unity performance may simply have been flywheel energy in the rotating mass of the rotor, although it did operate at these efficiencies for longer periods than we could account for. I still have the rig, with its NIB magnets on the rotor. The chassis and bearing for the demo unit was an old 5.25 inch floppy disk drive. The coils were not air-cored, but we tried various configurations, all based on ferrite core material intended for SMPSU applications. -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 13:34:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24510; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008701bf9dab$29b10a20$0a00a8c0@skot> From: "skot" To: "fr" Subject: Re: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:28:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"UJc_F2.0.p-5.M_Fwu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sparky wrote: I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack. For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. .0015 amps x 9 VDC = 13.5 milliwatts That's very little draw. Do you have a minature motor you could drive as a generator instead of the six inch fan? If it made more than 13.5 milliwatts it would be over unity. scottb From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 13:41:36 2000 Received: by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26869 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:41:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 13:32:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24510; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008701bf9dab$29b10a20$0a00a8c0@skot> From: "skot" To: "fr" Subject: Re: Bedini Science Fair Motor Old-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:28:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"UJc_F2.0.p-5.M_Fwu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Unprocessed X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest Status: O X-Status: Sparky wrote: I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I used a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack. For the rotor I used a 3-1/2" plug cut from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just drill 5/8"holes and glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor used in a vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 RPM. It is turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. .0015 amps x 9 VDC = 13.5 milliwatts That's very little draw. Do you have a minature motor you could drive as a generator instead of the six inch fan? If it made more than 13.5 milliwatts it would be over unity. scottb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 14:16:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29633; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:15:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:15:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:08:32 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR "SELF-PROMOTION" In-Reply-To: <38E6907B.16A4@cyberportal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Rp1o9.0.wE7.4eGwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 1 Apr 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > Bill, > > I do not like what is being implied here. Do us both a favor and > unsubscribe me to your list. Certainly. People of integrity do not take insult, because they know their actions are above reproach. People of integrity need not defend their reputations against attack, since their actions speak for themselves, and their reputations are invulnerable. Nothing either of us can say will make a difference. Everyone on FREENRG knows me by my actions, and everyone here knows you by yours. Judging people is a simple matter if you ignore their attempts to verbally "spin" their actions into something that is justified. Just look at their actions alone, and ignore their explanations, and the truth will be very plain. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 14:39:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05722; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:39:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:39:00 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 07:38:33 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <2o3iesg4g316fcg1qmp03j3sh5rcutfr08@4ax.com> References: <008701bf9dab$29b10a20$0a00a8c0@skot> In-Reply-To: <008701bf9dab$29b10a20$0a00a8c0@skot> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA05658 Resent-Message-ID: <"22yqd1.0.JP1.pzGwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Sparky wrote: > >I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I >used a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack. For the rotor I >used a 3-1/2" plug cut from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used >5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just drill 5/8"holes and >glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor used in a >vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the >coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 >RPM. It is turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. What was in the core of the coil? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 15:22:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA19492; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:21:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:21:45 -0700 Message-ID: <001501bf9d81$61201de0$abfab3d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: Subject: Fw: Magnetism = LI? Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:29:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"cucDI3.0.Tm4.ubHwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Ted Gondert To: Scott Zimmerman Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 6:55 AM Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? > > > > but isn't 40 volts (at some constant current) for 1 second is equal to 1 > > volt for 40 seconds? > > If current constant then 40 volts for 1 second is same as 1 volt for 40 > seconds. Using 1 amp it would be 40V X 1A X 1sec = 40 watt seconds or > 1 volt X 1A X 40 second = 40 watt seconds. > > > > PS. Joseph Newman has been auctioning machine #5 for over two weeks , > > > supposedly the bid is $4000. So why doesn't Joe just sell it and > *************************** > > The best thing about the free energy game is that there are NO losers... > > What about those who have invested money in schemes by Joseph Newman and > others with never a return or proof? Also Dennis Lee has been promoting > his "Free Electricity" and "Counter Rotational Device" for the past year > or two, see: http://www.ucsofa.com to see his unproven claims. > > Skeptical website is: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis.html > Eric Krieg's skeptical web site has information and links to all sorts > of "free energy" devices and scientific explanations why most don't > work. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 16:02:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24986; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005001bf9dc0$6cab23a0$5ffcb3d1@dell> Reply-To: "Scott Zimmerman" From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: Subject: Free? Energy Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:58:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF9D85.7F58CB00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"I0UGv.0.y56.VAIwu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF9D85.7F58CB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello again, With all this talk about money and promotions and broken promises, I = feel the need to pipe in with some observations. I have only been into = free energy research for a few years now, but I see some recurring = problems that might be solve by a little honesty. First of all, buying things these days is tricky. I believe the saying = is 'buyer beware'. When I paid $700 for a $250 lawnmower engine, I = thought about it for a while. I decided that the knowledge that might = be gained was worth the $500 investment. Besides, I could share the = knowledge and thus consider the cost spread out over many people. I did = not purchase it expecting it to work perfectly and produce free energy. = I didn't even really expect it to do what the GEET guys were claiming, = but I figured knowing now would be better than wondering from now on. = All of the knowledge I gained from that experience (so far) has been = posted here. When I saw the GEET guys in Arizona, they were very candid and open. = They showed me the all the parts of the motor, and told me that they = wouldn't suit me for making one. They even said to tell them if I made = any improvements to the design so they could pass them on. Their = attitudes might have changed since then, but I truly believe that is = exactly the attitude free energy researches should have. Newman says that if inventors aren't paid well for their inventions, = they will stop inventing. But I saw the people that came to give Joe = money. They weren't trying to buy an energy machine, they were trying = to buy stock in the next power company. There was even talk about = trying to prevent one company from buying all the motors and auctioning = them off to the highest bidder. Frankly, it made me a little sad to be = human. Let's say Bruce or Joe come up with a truly free energy device. Their = patents will protect it, and the government will surely step in to = provide them with protection as well as regulation. Instead of making = my checks out to Pacific Gas & Electric, I would be writing them to = Bruce, but would anything really be different? Maybe we'd be running = with less polution or something, but in the long run we'd end up right = where we are now. Large companies with big incomes stifling research = into something better. I know there are examples of large companies = doing good, but you know what I mean. If I should stumble across truly free energy (and don't worry, you're = very likely to beat me), I plan on making it as widely available as = possible to make control of the information impossible. Sort of the = like the GEET motor. Even if Paul and the boys disappeared, we all know = enough to make one of the devices. Some people have said this would be = insane since the 'bad guys' are bound to get it. Personally, I count on = the 'bad guys' getting everything. I don't worry as long as the 'good = guys' are getting it too. It's when one team has it and one team = doesn't that things seem to go haywire. I bet anyone generous enough to do this would find that they would be = rewarded ten-fold in the form of recognition and admiration. You might = even be able to write a book about the experience. But selling the = actual energy devices is what keeps people wary, and help keep us = arguing with each other instead of making progress. I have seen Newman's motors run and all the math he does to prove they = are over-unity. I have never seen one run without some kind of input = power (batteries or solar panels). At the same time, he was playing a = losing game from the beginning. He defined the test, and then = demonstrated that he could pass it. Big deal. With my coil experience, = I had those much more skeptical (and down-right mean) design the = experiments. This way there was no arguments about the results. But = when the results came in, the guys I was working with didn't really want = to play anymore. I can only assume it was because 'their team' was no = longer winning (or at least driving). This is what I meant about free energy having no losers. I don't = consider myself a loser in the GEET device (even though I'm still paying = the power company). The people involved in premeditated scams might = feel cheated, again, there was some knowledge to be gained. If nothing = else, you learn to make sure you know what you are getting before you = send the money. If you are in too much of a hurry to do that, ask = yourself why? Is it because someone else might beat you? Is it because = you really don't want to go to work tomorrow? Or is it because you = truly want to help the planet? If it's that last one, rushing to get = ripped off and then telling all of us about it is just another way to do = it. You prevent us from getting ripped off. If it's those other things you're interested in, I would suggest a more = lucrative profession. You can work at McDonalds and make more than a = free energy person. Then again, if you're looking to hit the big one, = maybe Vegas is what you're really looking for. I've said before that I = am happy making money with my skills and sharing my knowledge freely = with anyone. Surprisingly enough, the bad guys haven't got me yet. I = believe people like the guy who runs this list are those kinds of = people. Bill was extremely helpful when I met him in Arizona, and I = have yet to receive a bill. Too naive to believe, ...Z ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF9D85.7F58CB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello again,
 
With all this talk about money and = promotions and=20 broken promises, I feel the need to pipe in with some = observations.  I have=20 only been into free energy research for a few years now, but I see some=20 recurring problems that might be solve by a little honesty.
 
First of all, buying things these days = is=20 tricky.  I believe the saying is 'buyer beware'.  When I paid = $700 for=20 a $250 lawnmower engine, I thought about it for a while.  I decided = that=20 the knowledge that might be gained was worth the $500 investment.  = Besides,=20 I could share the knowledge and thus consider the cost spread out over = many=20 people.  I did not purchase it expecting it to work perfectly and = produce=20 free energy.  I didn't even really expect it to do what the GEET = guys were=20 claiming, but I figured knowing now would be better than wondering from = now=20 on.  All of the knowledge I gained from that experience (so far) = has been=20 posted here.
 
When I saw the GEET guys in Arizona, = they were very=20 candid and open.  They showed me the all the parts of the motor, = and told=20 me that they wouldn't suit me for making one.  They even said to = tell them=20 if I made any improvements to the design so they could pass them = on.  Their=20 attitudes might have changed since then, but I truly believe that is = exactly the=20 attitude free energy researches should have.
 
Newman says that if inventors aren't = paid well for=20 their inventions, they will stop inventing.  But I saw the people = that came=20 to give Joe money.  They weren't trying to buy an energy machine, = they were=20 trying to buy stock in the next power company.  There was even talk = about=20 trying to prevent one company from buying all the motors and auctioning = them off=20 to the highest bidder.  Frankly, it made me a little sad to be=20 human.
 
Let's say Bruce or Joe come up with a = truly free=20 energy device.  Their patents will protect it, and the government = will=20 surely step in to provide them with protection as well as = regulation. =20 Instead of making my checks out to Pacific Gas & Electric, I would = be=20 writing them to Bruce, but would anything really be = different?  Maybe=20 we'd be running with less polution or something, but in the long run = we'd end up=20 right where we are now.  Large companies with big incomes=20 stifling research into something better.  I know there are = examples of=20 large companies doing good, but you know what I mean.
 
If I should stumble across truly free = energy (and=20 don't worry, you're very likely to beat me), I plan on making it as = widely=20 available as possible to make control of the information = impossible.  Sort=20 of the like the GEET motor.  Even if Paul and the boys disappeared, = we all=20 know enough to make one of the devices.  Some people have said this = would=20 be insane since the 'bad guys' are bound to get it.  Personally, I = count on=20 the 'bad guys' getting everything.  I don't worry as long as the = 'good=20 guys' are getting it too.  It's when one team has it and one team = doesn't=20 that things seem to go haywire.
 
I bet anyone generous enough to do this = would find=20 that they would be rewarded ten-fold in the form of recognition and=20 admiration.  You might even be able to write a book about the=20 experience.  But selling the actual energy devices is what keeps = people=20 wary, and help keep us arguing with each other instead of making=20 progress.
 
I have seen Newman's motors run and all = the math he=20 does to prove they are over-unity.  I have never seen one run = without some=20 kind of input power (batteries or solar panels).  At the same time, = he was=20 playing a losing game from the beginning.  He defined the test, and = then=20 demonstrated that he could pass it.  Big deal.  With my coil=20 experience, I had those much more skeptical (and down-right mean) design = the=20 experiments.  This way there was no arguments about the = results.  But=20 when the results came in, the guys I was working with didn't really want = to play=20 anymore.  I can only assume it was because 'their team' was no = longer=20 winning (or at least driving).
 
This is what I meant about free energy = having no=20 losers.  I don't consider myself a loser in the GEET device (even = though=20 I'm still paying the power company).  The people involved in = premeditated=20 scams might feel cheated, again, there was some knowledge to be = gained.  If=20 nothing else, you learn to make sure you know what you are getting = before you=20 send the money.  If you are in too much of a hurry to do that, = ask=20 yourself why?  Is it because someone else might beat you?  Is = it=20 because you really don't want to go to work tomorrow?  Or is it = because you=20 truly want to help the planet?  If it's that last one, rushing to = get=20 ripped off and then telling all of us about it is just another way to do = it.  You prevent us from getting ripped off.
 
If it's those other things you're = interested in, I=20 would suggest a more lucrative profession.  You can work at = McDonalds and=20 make more than a free energy person.  Then again, if you're looking = to hit=20 the big one, maybe Vegas is what you're really looking for.  I've said before that I am happy making = money with my=20 skills and sharing my knowledge freely with anyone.  Surprisingly = enough,=20 the bad guys haven't got me yet.  I believe people like the guy who = runs=20 this list are those kinds of people.  Bill was extremely helpful = when I met=20 him in Arizona, and I have yet to receive a bill.
 
Too naive to believe,
 
 
...Z
 
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF9D85.7F58CB00-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 18:53:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22198; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:52:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:52:59 -0700 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 01:52:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Mathias Bage X-Sender: mathias@kel.brace.dom Reply-To: Mathias Bage To: vortex-lb@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Gravity Capacitor - ideas on materials and production Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA22148 Resent-Message-ID: <"QKbd81.0.lQ5.whKwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello everyone! I've done some research. The time zone name "EET" in the emails from the anonymous fellow that allegedly have replicated the "Electric Rocket", suggests that he lives in Eastern Europe Why is this important, you may ask? Well, I've tried to find out what kind of wax paper that exist nowadays. In the 1930's, wax paper was probably not the same stuff you now get your beef wrapped in at the butcher's, but rather something with a much thicker layer of wax. And one of the countries where they still produce this old-fashioned wax paper is Poland. And Poland's time zone is EET. Maybe this guy is building the device with old-fashioned, thick, wax paper [N.B: a thick wax layer is just mere speculation from my side] As for the tin foil, I really liked Mitchell Jones' simple jigsaw idea to cut the tin foil between two pieces of board! And to cut my wax paper, I'll order a cheap (the equivalent of USD 60 .. 70) custom-made punch tool (used in sticker production), place the wax paper on a flat surface, place the tool on top and hit it with a small club, and voilà! I also vaguely recall a discussion in some forum where someone pressed on the importance of the capacitor having a tapering geometry, i.e. a truncated cone (this tapering geometry also correlates with T. T. Brown.) So, I've called a couple of laser & water cutting shops, and one of them now has some 0.2mm tin foil to play with. They (Bystronic) say their software can cut each piece different from the one before, if I give them a drawing and a scaling algorithm. The same technique could of course be used for the wax paper. [btw, I didn't contact the Swiss company Bystronic directly, but a local shop that use their equipment - Bystronic produce both laser & water cutters, and both machines use the same NC software!] Who knows, maybe a tapering version might prove to be more effective. Unless our eastern european fellow is a hoaxer. Hope not. /Mathias From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 19:54:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16218; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:54:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:54:34 -0700 From: scspm@public.sta.net.cn Message-ID: <38E86013.300A@public.sta.net.cn> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:10:43 +0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: "Qi" : BHS in Modern Science Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oqr4t1.0.Ez3.fbLwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Colleague: What in my study in life science I nominate "Qi" in modern English as a "Biological Holographic Stream", BHS. It is the concept in quantum physics. Summarize following: 1) "Qi" is never seriously concerned by modern science in our life science because no proper translation and no modern scientists actually know what's the real meaning of "Qi" because the different culture, education background and mentality of western and oriental. 2) "Qi" exits in the life circle, circulation and communication of life message, encoding by gene substance in body fluid and electronic transmission. 3) "Qi" sometimes can be feeled but in most case it is the automatic life motivation, generate from last generation. 4) "Qi" will go down when people overweighted and become old and lack of life motivation. 5) When "Qi" is blocked, weakened and/or failure due to bad quality life and style, aging, infection and injury normal life will be affected. 6) Modern civilization illness all because of misleading of "Qi". 7) "Qi" can be practised and cultivated, enriched for health life and longevity. 8) "Qi" can be holographic with the universe. "Qi" in our body is the small circulation encoding from the big one. 9) "Qi" can be quantized and computerized to meet modern computer and space time. 10)"Qi" can link with everything in the cosmos. I work Life Science more than 25 years, and would like exchange "Qi" modernization with people in the same interests. I am looking for cooperation in frontier research. Peter Hu, Life Science Researcher 303 Chifeng St., Guest House 604 Shanghai 200092, China Tel. 0086-21-65980570; Fax: 0086-21-65141614 Mobile:+86-139-0189-3032; email: scspm@public.sta.net.cn, Med_Cafe@yahoo.com © All Rights Reserved From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 20:18:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA23992; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:18:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:18:07 -0700 Message-ID: <001901bf9de5$b1556ae0$98a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <008701bf9dab$29b10a20$0a00a8c0@skot> <2o3iesg4g316fcg1qmp03j3sh5rcutfr08@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:06:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"2jJdq3.0.bs5.ixLwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The core from the from the vent fan motor. With a new battery it will run with air core. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 1:38 PM Subject: Re: Bedini Science Fair Motor > >Sparky wrote: > > > >I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I > >used a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack. For the rotor I > >used a 3-1/2" plug cut from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used > >5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just drill 5/8"holes and > >glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor used in a > >vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the > >coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 > >RPM. It is turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. > What was in the core of the coil? > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 20:18:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24001; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:18:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:18:10 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bf9de5$b2713b20$98a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: "William Beaty" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR "SELF-PROMOTION" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:26:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"LaKty2.0.ns5.kxLwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Mr. William Beaty, I do not believe what you say is true, even Job defended himself when unfairly attacked. I believe that most people on this list were probibly unsiscribed. If they and their reputations were unfairly attacked, as far as actions go, was your last post really necessary? Or, just cruel? You don't give a darn about other people's feelings obviously. And don't call me a dum dum after this! For I can unsiscribe too! :P Sincerly, Mark Ross P.S d:o P ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 1:08 PM Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR "SELF-PROMOTION" > On Sat, 1 Apr 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > Bill, > > > > I do not like what is being implied here. Do us both a favor and > > unsubscribe me to your list. > > Certainly. > > People of integrity do not take insult, because they know their actions > are above reproach. People of integrity need not defend their > reputations against attack, since their actions speak for themselves, and > their reputations are invulnerable. > > Nothing either of us can say will make a difference. Everyone on FREENRG > knows me by my actions, and everyone here knows you by yours. Judging > people is a simple matter if you ignore their attempts to verbally "spin" > their actions into something that is justified. Just look at their > actions alone, and ignore their explanations, and the truth will be very > plain. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 20:22:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA25277; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:21:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:21:51 -0700 Message-ID: <00e501bf9de4$20705400$3e9910cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR ADVERTIZING??? Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:16:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"dNURN1.0.sA6.E_Lwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Keeping secrets has nothing to do with science, and everything to do with > making a living. Unfortunately these two are in competition. The need to > make a living will corrupt science with needless secrecy. The need to "do > science" will expose inventors to idea-theft. And also, secrecy allows > the scammers to rip off everybody. > > The solution for FREENRG-L? Easy: make a decision. Decide for or > against science. I am decidedly anti-scammer and pro-science, and if > inventors need to make a living, then they can go elsewhere, since their > need will blatently interfere with the doing of science and the halting > of fraud. Yeah! I definitely support this statement. Free energy and antigravity research is stifled by patents and by selling. Pure altruistic research is really the best means to achive any meaningful results. I am glad to hear Bill and others support this belief. This is one reason why this is only one of two mailing lists that I subscribe to. :-) > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 20:59:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02373; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:59:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:59:30 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Freenrg-L" Subject: RE: Magnetism = LI? Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:57:10 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"69TE61.0.va.XYMwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Z writes: >We tried a couple of times using the old 'grid dip' method of adjusting the >frequency and looking for a spike, but there was no obvious point of >resonance using the tools I had. I'm not exactly sure why. All I know is >that when we had the 3.5 H coil attached to a nice HP bridge, we could only >get to about 300 Hz before the bridge would start thinking the coil was a >capacitor. As I recall, it was reading about 1 microfarad of capacitance. >But I wasn't that interested in the capacitance at that point, so I didn't >pay much attention. What I wanted to know was would I get any magnetism out >of the coil, and if so, how would it compare to smaller coil. I'd expect a spike if the Q was sufficiently high, otherwise there'd be a gradual hump around resonance. It's hard to get high Q's with air core coils; hence the popularity of permeable material (wink wink). >To be honest, I am no double-E. I am a self-taught computer programmer that >caught the free-energy bug like most people catch a cold. I thought I might >be able to help the cause by doing some of the grunt work that not everyone >has the time/patience to do. I'm kind of counting on people like you to >help me decipher what I'm seeing. This is what prompted my original >question: Is it an established fact that these large coils will produce >more magnetism than smaller versions with less input power? My double-E >friends told me that it was an established fact they would not, but then >were unable to prove it when the coil was sitting in front of them. I'm stumped by what you mean by "more magnetism with less input power" Do you mean 1) the most energy efficient motor? 2) the largest magnetic field at some point for a given amount of wire? 3) the largest field? or something else... I think if you can define the problem more clearly we can come up with an answer. If you are willing to dust off the coils and do some more tests, I'll do some more rigorous calculations and suggest a few experiments. And of course we'll all benefit. Frankly I wouldn't get your hopes up about vindicating Joe Newman; but I guarantee you'll learn some new stuff about inductors and distributed capacity. K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 21:11:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA06311; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:11:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:11:02 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Freenrg-L" Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 00:08:38 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"UaeB2.0.WY1.LjMwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Morriss writes : The motor that I designed with Chris Tinsley (before his tragic death) was a switched reluctance motor operated with the coils tuned at parallel resonance with an external capacitor. The switching of the external pulsed supply to the coils was carefully timed to augment the current at the correct point on the resonant sine wave. Obviously it only ran in the correct mode for one particular rpm, (set by the resonant frequency of the L-C circuit.) It was a pig to get it operating at the correct point. We occasionally had it running, (driving a permanent magnet motor used as a generator into a resistive load), at what appeared to be efficiencies in excess of 100% for periods of roughly 10 to 20 seconds before the system lost sync and slowly ran down and stopped. I put in a patent application at the time (I still have the application) but had insufficient funds to carry through the patent process. ====================== Hi Chris, glad to see you're on this list. I remember viewing the video tape Chris T. and Gene(?) made to promote interest in the motor, I don't remember if they mentioned your name so my apologies for neglecting you if they did. I remember the large capacitor needed to get the resonant frequency down into the correct range, I also remember the crude scope used for the phase angle measurements. How accurate do you think those measurements were? Did you confirm with alternative equipment? K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 22:19:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24986; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:18:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:18:52 -0700 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: Reverse engineer the Testatika from the INE Perspective Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:18:19 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"fOnuJ1.0.J66.yiNwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Patrick, > > > The deal with the Swiss M/L converter is that the high V created by the > disks is somehow also used to create high current. Present thinking is > that this is done where the current goes THROUGH those 2 horseshoe-shaped > magnets in the unit. They look like up-side-down "U's". Personally I think the Testatika is a glow discharge device using electrostatic excitation. You'll notice the tube on the top of the device, with an orange glow in it that can be seen in some video on the net. This is referred to as a "gas rectifier" in the documentation. But it has four ports--the electrodes at the end, and a coil around it-- so it isn't a rectifier. I think the coil is a HF electrostatic exciter of the air inside. Once the air is excited, small current pulses into the electrode cause charge cluster formation and ZPE coherence in the tube resulting in increased current output. This is similar to the Shoulders and Correa patents. Baumann related the principle of his machine to lightning, which is a plasma phenomenon. > > Not many devices have been reported that have AC going through permanent > magnets. Note that the Swiss M/L C has also wire windings around those > magnets. > > This is very similar to those on the magnets used by Hans Coler in his > devices that were researched and documented by the Third Reich > in Germany. > > Does anybody know of any other devices where electricity goes through and > also around permanent magnets? There is not much out there that uses actual permanent magnets. It's too difficult to shift the domains of a modern day PM with currents through the core. Whether this was true of Coler's soft iron cores, I don't know. But what is for sure is that they wouldn't remain permanent magnets for long as the core current field would demagnetize the length wise field. So in effect they weren't permanent magnets at all, but cores with orthogonally biased fields. Using orthogonal magnetic fields and currents through a magnetically biased core has been seen a few times. Walter and Ewing used current through a core at right angles to a field around it in a sensitive early radio detector design in 1904. Russell investigated these core currents in a paper in 1905. There is a mid-fifties patent from Mortimer for a frequency multiplier/divider that uses this arrangement. There is a bit of investigation now of the peculiar effects of putting current through a longitudinally magnetized metglas wire. The current completely eliminates hysteresis and noise in the wire, I think due to some magnetostrictive effect. I believe there are flux gate magnetometer designs that use this idea. I got interested in this at one point when I saw the possibility of using core currents to create a magnetic flux switch. Regards, Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 22:42:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA32661; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:42:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:42:15 -0700 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: "Qi" : BHS in Modern Science Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:41:38 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <38E86013.300A@public.sta.net.cn> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"Af8dG3.0.3-7.r2Owu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Peter, > > What in my study in life science I nominate "Qi" in modern English as a > "Biological Holographic Stream", BHS. It is the concept in quantum > physics. Summarize following: > > 1) "Qi" is never seriously concerned by modern science in our life > science because no proper translation and no modern scientists actually > know what's the real meaning of "Qi" because the different culture, > education background and mentality of western and oriental. Yes, Qi or Chi is now known to lay people in the west who practice Qi Gong, Tai Chi or other martial arts, but this is still not accepted by western science. Acupuncture is gaining some acceptance, at least in big cities. My family and I use it in our health practice. A lot of the reason why it is not accepted is that it cannot be understood within the four forces of physics. If a physical model of Qi could be developed, acceptance would be much more rapid. I suspect that it is electromagnetic, but a form of electromagnetism that is not confined to light speed. But I have no proof of this. Are you familiar with the work of Wilhelm Reich? And have you heard of the Russian torsion field theories? > > 2) "Qi" exits in the life circle, circulation and communication of life > message, encoding by gene substance in body fluid and electronic > transmission. Can you give an example of how Qi could be transmitted electronically? > > 3) "Qi" sometimes can be feeled but in most case it is the automatic > life motivation, generate from last generation. > > 4) "Qi" will go down when people overweighted and become old and lack of > life motivation. > > 5) When "Qi" is blocked, weakened and/or failure due to bad quality life > and style, aging, infection and injury normal life will be affected. Yes, certainly. > > 6) Modern civilization illness all because of misleading of "Qi". > > 7) "Qi" can be practised and cultivated, enriched for health life and > longevity. > > 8) "Qi" can be holographic with the universe. "Qi" in our body is the > small circulation encoding from the big one. > > 9) "Qi" can be quantized and computerized to meet modern computer and > space time. This is very interesting. This implies that Qi is at least partly INFORMATION and not ENERGY. > > 10)"Qi" can link with everything in the cosmos. > > I work Life Science more than 25 years, and would like exchange "Qi" > modernization with people in the same interests. I am looking for > cooperation in frontier research. I can't offer much help, but I think the subject is fascinating. Thanks, Peter, for your interesting letter. Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 23:12:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA08273; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:12:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:12:13 -0700 Message-ID: <002301bf9dfd$dfe24d20$d8a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <008701bf9dab$29b10a20$0a00a8c0@skot> Subject: Re: Bedini Science Fair Motor Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:20:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"kjCCw3.0.612.zUOwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks, sounds like a good idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: "skot" To: "fr" Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Bedini Science Fair Motor > Sparky wrote: > > I completed the motor 2 days ago and it is still running. I > used a2n3055 Transistor from radio shack. For the rotor I > used a 3-1/2" plug cut from a 2x6 with a hole saw. I used > 5/8" round magnets in the rotor, just drill 5/8"holes and > glue in magnets. I used a coil from a small motor used in a > vent fan. I wound 450 turns of fine mag wire on top of the > coil instead of bifiler wound. It runs at about 700-1000 > RPM. It is turning a 6" fan at .0015 amp. 9 v. > > > > > .0015 amps x 9 VDC = 13.5 milliwatts > > That's very little draw. Do you have a minature motor you > could drive as a generator instead of the six inch fan? If > it made more than 13.5 milliwatts it would be over unity. > > scottb > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 23:17:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA00309; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:16:43 -0700 (PDT) From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:01:43 -0700 Subject: What happened to the gravity capacitor man ? Message-ID: <20000403.140143.-455559.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"hdNtE1.0.k4.6ZOwu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anymore word from the mystery man ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 23:22:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA10969; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:22:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:22:28 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01bf9dff$75d6dca0$d8a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <8605-387E829E-5382@storefull-124.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Subject: Re: BEDINI'S FREE ENERGY GENERATOR Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:31:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"X4DPB3.0.Hh2.aeOwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think this is very short pulses of 200 to 400 volts with very low amps. this will not hurt the battery and will charge the battery useing less power. the battery can return more power than it uses to charge it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R B" To: Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 5:57 PM Subject: BEDINI'S FREE ENERGY GENERATOR > Been experimenting some on the bendini free energy generator. From > rereading over his stuff it's seems he was zapping a lead acid battery > with high voltage,1-6Mhz. I know this stuff is old to the list, but > what is really ever happened with it .Has anyone ever tryed it? > If I zapped a car battery with 1-6Mhz of juice is it going to explode? > He says it's simple, comments? RB > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/foreward.html > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 23:49:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03009; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:49:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: Magnetism = LI? Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:48:32 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"OP9n2.0.tk.e1Pwu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Chris and all, > > The motor that I designed with Chris Tinsley (before his tragic death) > was a switched reluctance motor operated with the coils tuned at > parallel resonance with an external capacitor. The switching of the > external pulsed supply to the coils was carefully timed to augment the > current at the correct point on the resonant sine wave. Obviously it > only ran in the correct mode for one particular rpm, (set by the > resonant frequency of the L-C circuit.) It was a pig to get it > operating at the correct point. We occasionally had it running, > (driving a permanent magnet motor used as a generator into a resistive > load), at what appeared to be efficiencies in excess of 100% for periods > of roughly 10 to 20 seconds before the system lost sync and slowly ran > down and stopped. I put in a patent application at the time (I still > have the application) but had insufficient funds to carry through the > patent process. There are quite a number of related patents. These are some of the more interesting ones: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04064442__ US4064442: Electric motor having permanent magnets and resonant circuit An electric motor having in each of the rotor and the stator a permanent magnet and an electromagnet of equal strength placed in parallel relation such that when the electromagnet coil is activated the flux of the magnets is additive and when the coil is deactivated the flux of the permanent magnet takes a closed circuit path through the electromagnet core, the rotor being mounted on a shaft for rotation relative to the stator and a commutator switch being included for alternately connecting and disconnecting the electromagnet coils to and from a power source, wherein capacitors are provided in the coil circuit. The capacitor and coil circuit is designed to have a resonant frequency roughly equal to or near the switching frequency of the commutator switch at the intended shaft operating speed, thereby causing the capacitors to alternately store energy from and discharge energy to the coils. The combination of permanent magnets with electro-magnets and the addition of capacitors in the coil circuit to form a resonant circuit results in increased efficiency of the motor. http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US04785228__ US4785228: Electrical energy enhancement apparatus A plurality of permanent magnets mounted at equally spaced angular intervals on a drive shaft are rotated past a plurality of electromagnets at equally spaced fixed angular intervals about the axis of the shaft on a plate supported by a frame. An electric motor drives the drive shaft. The electromagnets are connected across each its own capacitance. At the appropriate speed of rotation the frequency of electrical energy generated by the permanent magnets as they pass the electromagnets causes resonance to occur. This action controls the drive shaft speed. A plurality of capacitors is attached to the base plate and the cross bars of the frame supporting the plate. http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US05514923__ US5514923: High efficiency DC motor with generator and flywheel characteristics A high efficiency multi-phasic type DC motor incorporating brushless electronic switching to phase the attractive and repulsive forces between the permanent magnets in the rotor and wire wound air core coils in the stator. The unequal number of magnets and coils provides a designed imbalance, so that proper energization induces rotation and torque in the motor's dual flywheel rotor. Electronic switching collects inductive kickback and back emf simultaneously during the motor phase and in addition, disconnects the attraction and repulsion phases during regenerative braking, etc. and directs all this generated power back to the power pack where it is stored in batteries and capacitors. The rechargeable batteries and capacitors in the power pack are the source of operating electrical power for the motor. The rotating assembly is designed to have adequate mass so that the kinetic energy of rotation smooths out the pulsing moments introduced by the attraction and repulsion of the coils and magnets and to ensure continuous rotation of the dual flywheel rotor. The combination of electronic switching, the low hysteresis loss in the air core coils, the streamlined configuration of the rotor which reduces windage loss and the recovery of the generated currents in the air core coils contribute to the high efficiency of the electric DC motor. http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US04086505__ US4086505: Electromagnetic system An electromagnetic system for more efficiently utilizing energy wherein an outside power source is utilized to rotate a flywheel to a predetermined velocity. A plurality of armatures mounted on the periphery of the flywheel pass through a plurality of magnetic fields generated by stationary coils mounted at radially spaced locations around the rotating flywheel. The magnetic fields are generated by an electric current from a circuit that is so arranged that the magnetic fields are generated and collapsed in time relationship to the rotary movement of the armatures such that, as the armatures approach the magnetic field, they are drawn toward the center of the magnetic field at which point the magnetic field collapses and is regenerated with a reverse polarity so as to repel the armature from the center of the magnetic field whereby the flywheel rotation is maintained at the desired velocity. > I think that the over-unity performance may simply have been flywheel > energy in the rotating mass of the rotor, although it did operate at > these efficiencies for longer periods than we could account for. There are many such motor patents that claim 95-99 percent efficiency-- which clearly is impossible in a mechanical device unless there is an unseen source of energy to compensate for friction losses. Unless your machine was designed within an inch of its life, it isn't likely to go above say 70-75 percent. On top of that you have the inefficiencies of your PM generator. So if you were showing over 100 then it was probably OU. Any flywheel effect would probably just compensate for the losses. I think there are motor control circuits that would keep your freq on target. This is probably a good project to dig out and work on again. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 00:46:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27058; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 00:45:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 00:45:42 -0700 Message-ID: <38E9AB61.5B7BF7D8@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 01:44:17 -0700 From: D Adams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: COOOOOL java-based simulation References: <009501bf9d8c$f5885c80$8c0743d8@user> <38E947AC.E7BB6A06@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HFtUs.0.hc6.bsPwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: D Adams wrote: > So what is this supposed to do? > > Dan Hicks wrote: > >> Chris, >> >> Very cool, thanks >> >> Dan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris O'Barr +ADw-paradis2+AEA-peganet.com+AD4- >> To: freenrg-l+AEA-eskimo.com +ADw-freenrg-l+AEA-eskimo.com+AD4- >> Date: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:06 PM >> Subject: Re: COOOOOL java-based simulation >> >> +AD4- Whoa, that things pretty cool... >> +AD4------ Original Message ----- >> +AD4-From: William Beaty +ADw-billb+AEA-eskimo.com+AD4- >> +AD4-To: +ADw-sciclub-list+AEA-eskimo.com+AD4- >> +AD4-Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 5:29 PM >> +AD4-Subject: COOOOOL java-based simulation >> +AD4- >> +AD4- >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4APg- See +ACI-constructor+ACI- below. A tinkertoy set.... >> that's ALIVE+ACEAIQAhACEAIQAh- >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4-((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) >> ))))))))))))))))))))) >> +AD4APg- William J. Beaty SCIENCE >> HOBBYIST >> website >> +AD4APg- billb+AEA-eskimo.com >> http://www.amasci.com >> +AD4APg- EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, >> tesla, weird >> science >> +AD4APg- Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L >> vortex-L >> webhead-L >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4APg- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> +AD4APg- Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:57:28 -0500 >> +AD4APg- From: Joseph Bellina +ADw-jbellina+AEA-SAINTMARYS.EDU+AD4- >> +AD4APg- Reply-To: +ACI-phys-l+AEA-lists.nau.edu: Forum for Physics >> Educators+ACI- >> +AD4APg- +ADw-PHYS-L+AEA-lists.nau.edu+AD4- >> +AD4APg- To: PHYS-L+AEA-lists.nau.edu >> +AD4APg- Subject: Some fun >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4APg- Take a look at the web-site...its clever. >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4APg- http://www.soda.co.uk/soda/constructor/ >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4APg- have a nice weekend >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4APg- >> +AD4- >> +AD4- > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 02:25:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA07795; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 02:25:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 02:25:30 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01bf9e17$abba1a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: "Free Energy List" Subject: Off Topic: Nerve Cell Regeneration Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:25:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q_WnU1.0.iv1.9KRwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom - very late reply from my draft box Nerve cells including brain cells can be regenerated. It happens naturally in the brains of all mammals tested, including humans, contrary to popular belief. Also, the technology to regrow limbs,organs and nerve cells in situ already exists. A large portion of a womans upper thigh has already be reqrown and limbs of lower mammals regenerated by activating the embryonic growth gene known as Hedgehog. It is also possible to grow any body part in any position by activating the wrong genes. For example, fruit flies have been 'made' with legs in the position of their antennae using similar techniques - by substituting the 'code' for antennae with the 'code' for a leg. Interestingly enough, the code seems to be universal, so inserting the fruit fly code for eye into a mouse will generate a mouse eye, as if the 'eye here' code 'looks up' the eye generation subroutine. This has been documented in New Scientist, and several programs on Discovery have covered this. Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: tgrimes1@juno.com >saying that ALL diseases can be reversed. Please tell me how you can >regenerate nerve cells, and, more specifically, brain cells. Tell me how >you can reverse pyemia. Can you cure malaria (not just send it into >remission)? Can you cure AIDS or cancer? How about cerebral palsy, Down >syndrome, or Parkinson's? Diseases cannot all be reversed after a >certain time. For example, if someone's fingers fell off from leprosy, >you cannot regenerate them. You quack! I wouldn't be suprised if you >surprisedll (or worse) from the FDA. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 04:52:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA29385; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 04:52:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 04:52:24 -0700 Message-ID: <38E9D6E2.F5BB9D13@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:49:54 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? References: <200004031635.MAA29058@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R8lUK3.0.1B7.uTTwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim, You may not fall to same opinion if you had read the 500+ posting of Watson on SMOT. If you oversimplify the things, you can not distinguish the victim from the predator. Read the letter of G.Watson on Chris Tinsley after he died. Can you call him dishonest? Money is really not important here for SMOT'ers. If you wanna a make a good job, prove Epitaxy is a non existent person, or find his real name. hamdi ucar Jim Uban wrote: > > Tim (tv@juno.com) wrote: > ...Remember the fellow from Europe who called himself > Epitaxy... > > I personally would not be surprised to find that Epitaxy > was a pseudonym for Greg Watson, which he used to help > self-promote his SMOTs. I'm sorry, Hamdi, but I cannot > subscribe to any suppression theory! Greg may have been > self-deluded, but he did rip everyone off. No amount of > suppression could force someone to criminally take monies > from others, IMHO. > > Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 07:04:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA32032; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:03:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:03:50 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <29.34e6200.261b5019@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:03:05 EDT Subject: Re: Off Topic: Nerve Cell Regeneration To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"rDqOB1.0.Pq7.5PVwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, let me inject my two cents. Robert O. Becker did some pioneering research in this area and his book "The Body Electric" explains the history of his research in great detail. Enough so that someone with the right skills and equipment could duplicate everything if they so chose. Brian Drake From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 12:46:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15009; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:45:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:45:45 -0700 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:44:56 +0100 To: Sparky Cc: Freenrg-L From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Resent-Message-ID: <"6ZoAZ3.0.Qg3.fPawu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In message , Keith Nagel writes >====================== > >Hi Chris, glad to see you're on this list. > >I remember viewing the video tape Chris T. and Gene(?) made to >promote interest in the motor, I don't remember if they mentioned >your name so my apologies for neglecting you if they did. I remember >the large capacitor needed to get the resonant frequency down into >the correct range, I also remember the crude scope used for the >phase angle measurements. How accurate do you think those measurements >were? Did you confirm with alternative equipment? > >K. > That was Chris T's old scope! He was trying to use the motor, driven with a sine wave at the resonant frequency. I had been applying timed pulses to make it run. For Chris T's measurements we measured the DC input power to the power amp driving the coil. At the end we were using a Class-D (PWM) amp so the PA was about 80% efficient. The output power was the dc from the generator across a resistive load. Chris T did attempt to measure true power to the drive coil by measuring RMS volts and amps (with a HP true-rms meter) and trying to measure the phase angle as best he could. The trouble is that a difference of 1 degree in phase can make a big difference in real power consumed, and a dual-trace scope isn't the best way of getting accurate time measurements. -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 13:24:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26939; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:24:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:24:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:24:09 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What happened to the gravity capacitor man ? In-Reply-To: <20000403.140143.-455559.0.tv@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rNkoR1.0.pa6.mzawu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 3 Apr 2000 tv@juno.com wrote: > > Anymore word from the mystery man ? Nope. He said he was out of town until Saturday. I've sent him one message without response so far. Somebody mailed me some scanned images from a similar set of "gravity capacitor plans". One major change: these plans claim that the slots in the plates must be staggered throughout the stack, so the slot in each layer is adjacent to the non-slotted parts of adjacent layers. Since "S" built his capacitor without this knowledge, then either it's superfluous, or it is only an improvement and not a requirement. All of these plans say "use a strong battery like a car battery". If the thrust is proportional to voltage, then perhaps even a car battery will work. And if my calculation of the actual voltage produced by the VDG is correct, then the thrust becomes fairly large even when the voltage is way below 1KV (and maybe below 100v). ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 13:38:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA32157; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:37:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:37:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:37:27 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR "SELF-PROMOTION" In-Reply-To: <001a01bf9de5$b2713b20$98a270d1@markross> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"y7YT_3.0.Es7.RAbwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, sparky wrote: > Dear Mr. William Beaty, > I do not believe what you say is true, even Job defended himself when > unfairly attacked. I'm talking about attacks upon "reputation" or "character." For example, if Jerry Decker took files from Bruce Perrault's CD and spread them on the internet, then that is not an attack upon his character, and Bruce has every right to defend himself. > I believe that most people on this list were probibly unsiscribed. I don't understand. In the many years of FREENRG-L operation, I've only unsubscribed about three people, and that was because of repeated violations of the "no flamewars" rule. > If > they and their reputations were unfairly attacked, as far as > actions go, was your last post really necessary? Or, just cruel? If I say about Jesus, "To know what kind of person he really is, look at his actions, not his words", that's a form of accolade. If I say the same thing about Bill Clinton, then it is an attack. Words can be used to educate, or to mislead. That's why we should ignore words, and instead realize that "by their actions ye shall know them." It is interesting that you assume that I am attacking Mr. Perrault. If his actions are upright and beyond reproach, then for me to point them out is to give congratulations. And the opposite is also true. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Beaty" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR "SELF-PROMOTION" > > > > On Sat, 1 Apr 2000, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > I do not like what is being implied here. Do us both a favor and > > > unsubscribe me to your list. > > > > Certainly. > > > > People of integrity do not take insult, because they know their actions > > are above reproach. People of integrity need not defend their > > reputations against attack, since their actions speak for themselves, and > > their reputations are invulnerable. > > > > Nothing either of us can say will make a difference. Everyone on FREENRG > > knows me by my actions, and everyone here knows you by yours. Judging > > people is a simple matter if you ignore their attempts to verbally "spin" > > their actions into something that is justified. Just look at their > > actions alone, and ignore their explanations, and the truth will be very > > plain. > > > > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 13:46:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26390; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:45:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:44:38 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: COOOOOL java-based simulation In-Reply-To: <38E9AB61.5B7BF7D8@telusplanet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jKtqd3.0.CS6.6Hbwu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, D Adams wrote: > > > D Adams wrote: > > > So what is this supposed to do? It's a JAVA program, so if your browser won't runit, you won't see anything. If you CAN see it, then try turning gravity off, or reversed, and see what the crawling creature does. There is a construction feature which lets you make your own creatures, but I haven't tried it myself. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 13:50:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03921; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:49:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:49:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:49:45 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? In-Reply-To: <38E9D6E2.F5BB9D13@verisoft.com.tr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jAhvs3.0.6z.lLbwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, hamdi ucar wrote: > Hi Jim, > > You may not fall to same opinion if you had read the 500+ posting of > Watson on SMOT. If you oversimplify the things, you can not distinguish > the victim from the predator. If he owes people money, he should pay them back, or explain why not. Since people actually asked for refunds, then something is very wrong. Did he ignore their messages? If he's not dead or something, then there is no justification for his silence. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 14:13:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12741; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:13:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:13:01 -0700 Message-ID: <38EA5AF5.C39C0B65@dabney.com> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:13:25 -0500 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: COOOOOL java-based simulation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Gz26K1.0.-63.Thbwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > If you CAN see it, then try turning gravity off, or reversed, and see what > the crawling creature does. There is a construction feature which lets > you make your own creatures, but I haven't tried it myself. Thanks for the link. I could waste a lot of time with this! A real challenge is playing with the settings with one of the walkers and seeing how high you can get the gravity before it collapses. -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 14:13:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12946; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:13:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:13:25 -0700 Message-ID: <38EA5B18.D35D8FF4@info2000.net> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:14:00 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IQ3Ck1.0.BA3.rhbwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I really suspect that Greg Watson is just a really poor money manager (like a lot of people that I happen to know). I think that he probably spent the money as it came in and then when he realized that he couldn't deliver, he couldn't do anything about it. I'd bet that he feels pretty bad about the whole can of worms, too. If we were all good money managers, the credit card companies would go out of business. Just my two cents worth, Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 16:38:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30091; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:38:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:38:41 -0700 Message-ID: <38EA7CDF.D8CE3631@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 02:38:07 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sq314.0.4M7.0qdwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > Since people actually asked for refunds, then something is very wrong. Yes, this is correct. Something very bad should happen to him. > Did he ignore their messages? If he's not dead or something, then there > is no justification for his silence. I am afraid of the "something". Probably the "conservation organization" is. I am repost this letter because this is the point of change of things. I was shocked. He made his ultimate aim, the shipping of kits, an option! Rest is not important. One should be fooled to write this. It is clear that something is happened at this time, I believe this is external. and affected him deeply and tied. One cannot put it in a fraud or self deceiving scenario. My general advise to researches: Keep away from lawyers, from companies, from institutions. Dont look for money. Act very very fast if you wanner disclose you findings. I think the time limit from disclosing to duplication by others is about 2 or 3 weeks maximum. If you dont succeed it in this period, you never succeed. And dont trust somebody if there is a slight possibility this person may not be just you think. Just my feelings. Interesting note: See the "Sender", it is "Greg Watspn". "p" is typed instead of "o". The same error is also on the letter posted the same day, about two hours later. This is particularly interesting, because you dont have to type your name on a email, you only need to ty pe it when you install a new email client and define your preferences. From mail source, the email client [Mozilla 4.03] had not changed that time. Most probable is he had an other email acount, and swapped back to retreive letters from groups and replyi ng. But not an usual practice. Anyway, a disturbance coinciding with the story he told. This error show also Greg had not a good time, causing him a typo while entering his preference on email client (netscape). Regards, hamdi ucar ------------------------------------- Subject: Update Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:36:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:04:54 +0930 From: Greg Watspn To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" CC: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Hi All, For the last 8 weeks, I have been holding discussions with a world wide conservation organization. A well known member of their group has recently visited my "Lab". They wish to fully fund further work to develop a home based 10Kw RMOG unit. A letter of intention has been been signed and the legal eagles are hard at work on the contract. A jointly owned company, "DMEC Research P/L" will be formed. At present there will only be two shareholders. Several points relative to you have been resolved during the discussions. 1) DMEC Research will own ALL my work & ideas. 2) My web site will stay up. 3) Updates to my site will be by the approval of the board. 4) I will stay in the Freenrg & Vortex mail groups. 5) Postings must be copied to the board. 6) There will be a public demo of a self powered RMOG unit in the second quarter of 1998. One matter still has to be sorted out. 1) The status of the SMOT kits will be decided in the next two weeks. A) Ship & accept NO new orders. B) Cancel the orders & refund the money. They prefer B, I prefer A. Will keep you advised. Best Regards to ALL, Greg ---------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 17:24:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12229; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:24:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:24:20 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:10:53 -0700 Subject: Gravity as ZPE Push force (excellent !) Message-ID: <20000404.171104.-455619.2.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,7-12,14-18,20-21,23-24,26-27,29-32,34-36 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"pdpFC.0.s-2.nUewu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think this compilation of ideas by Robert E. Brady is right on the money: http://www.eskimo.com/~rebrady/Gravity.html I wonder if a separation of charges in a dielectric would effect the way the zero-point energy pushing would react with a material ? I am thinking of Townsend Brown's Gravitors and the more recent tinfoil space drive (gravity cpacitor). I have always thought that Townsend Browns propulsive effects towards the positive pole were just the ion wind effect. But he did claim to get thrust in a "hard" vacuum. Has anybody experimented with this recently ? Is it significant that there is over 1800 times as much positive charged mass of subatomic particles than negative ? When the electrons and protons have a common center of mass, you get the long range Van der Waal's Force/Casmir Effect known as gravity. What happens to the gravity force (and inertia) when the charges are displaced ? Assuming gravity is the pushing force of ZPE, how can we get it to push us more in one direction than another ? If it is not a hoax, maybe the tinfoil capacitor does this ???? If anybody tries the "gravity-capacitor" please give us a report, whether it is positive or negative. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 17:25:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12416; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:24:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:24:58 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: robert@skylink.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:48:01 -0700 Subject: Antigravity with Superluminal Field Rotation ? Message-ID: <20000404.171104.-455619.1.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6,19-20,31,34,36-37 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"nPsdk1.0.n13.NVewu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following is from an excellent bibliography compiled Robert Stirniman found at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3066/ANTIGRAV.HTM Thank You Robert, there is hours of interesting reading there ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > If an EM field is somehow rotated extremely fast, shouldn't all matter be repelled from its center? -kgo. How fast do you want it rotated? It's fairly simple to construct a system to produce rotating EM waves at whatever rotational velocity you wish by feeding a pair of broadside dipole arrays with quatrature phased waves. It is quite simple to construct a system that would have a rotational velocity of C within the uniform field area. It might also be fairly easy to do this with a Hemholtz coil arrangement as well, but the broadside array will be much easier to do at easily engineerable frequencies. Some really interesting paradoxes come about when the rotational frequency is high enough so that the rotational velocity exceeds C within the uniform field area of the arrays or within the hemholtz coils. -- Robert Shannon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I was still in high school, I met an engineer who worked for a contractor based at the NASA Ames Research. He told me of just an experiment which resulted in apparent "antigravity" effects. He built a cylindrical faraday chamber made out of screen within which was placed 3 vertically oriented dipoles positioned at the vertices of a triangle. He phased the 28 megahertz output of a Heathkit DX-100 (a tube Ham radio transmitter ) so the dipoles produced what he thought would be a electric field that rotated faster than the speed of light. The proper phasing was produced by using different lengths of coax cable to feed each of the dipoles. A full sized dipole at 28 Mhz (10 meter amateur band) is 16.7 feet longs. So he may have used shortened dipoles with coils. He told me, very matter of factly, that small objects placed within the chamber would levitate and float around. They would also, not surprisingly, get hot, especially things like rubber erasers. I have lost contact with the engineer, but reading the above brought this back to my memory. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 18:53:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08949; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:53:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:53:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:53:15 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? In-Reply-To: <38EA7CDF.D8CE3631@verisoft.com.tr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rHtR73.0.kB2.Eofwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, hamdi ucar wrote: > My general advise to researches: Keep away from lawyers, from companies, > from institutions. Dont look for money. Act very very fast if you wanner > disclose you findings. Early on in the SMOT history I discussed this privately with Greg Watson. A free-energy device is very much like a gold mine, and if you discover gold, greed makes it IMPOSSIBLE to find a trustworthy partner. I don't believe in conspiracies about suppression. The greed of human beings is enough to explain all events. But Greg apparently had the conviction "it can't happen to me", and no arguments about F/E history could sway him. But at the same time he was strangely secretive. Why not send out a video? Why discuss a mysterious "environmental organization" and not just simply state its name? So I never was certain whether the whole thing was some kind of egoistic insanity, or whether his discovery was real, but he aquired "dollar signs in the eyes" disease. If you run a mining operation, and you advertize that your mine has struck gold, yet you keep the location of your mine secret, chances are that you will wind up dead, and thieves can work your mine at their leisure. SECRECY IS THE OPPOSITE OF PROTECTION where gold mines and free energy devices are concerned. Run the mine in the open, like a conventional business, and it becomes very difficult for a murderer to take it over. The internet can finally break this cycle of secrecy and failure. But inventors first have to take the problem seriously, and remove ALL secrecy. Assume that Greg Watson discovered something real, but then note what he did, and avoid those mistakes. Hmmm. If "S" and his antigravity capacitor are never heard from again, and if his discovery was real, then again secrecy fails to offer any protection. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 19:03:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13354; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:03:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:03:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:03:11 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Bedini Motors (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"EpE8P1.0.ZG3.Yxfwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: see below ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 15:10:20 CDT From: Richard Trivangeant To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Bedini Motors I have a friend who has been in contact with John Bedini regarding the motor plans shown on KeelyNet, link shown below: http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/bedmot.htm If I am not mistaken, the original science fair motor built by the young girl was NOT intended to be O/U. Bedini supplied a new diagram to Jerry Decker which, I am told, provides O/U capability if everything is adjusted and timed properly. Regarding the new diagram Jerry added to the page on Mar. 31: Apparently Bedini expressed that the two batteries in the circuit must be exchanged periodically, so that the battery which powers the motor can be recharged. Needless to say, rechargeable batteries would have to be used if the device is intended to run by itself indefinitely. It does not seem practical to have to constantly exchange batteries manually. I think the circuit should have a timed 4PDT latching relay added to do this job automatically at regular intervals. The best interval time would depend upon the output of the motor and the size of the battery. Other designs posted on the Bedini web site work similarly. It looks as though most of Bedini's devices have one thing in common: They have two cycles. In one cycle, a battery discharges low voltage into a motor coil. In the second cycle, the coil returns a higher voltage back to the battery. Supposedly, the motor can power a load yet maintain the charge in the battery. I'd have to say, based on the postings by Robert Calloway and others who have got their feet wet in the Bedini technology, we should explore all aspects of this battery-recharge phenomenon. Maybe there's something to it! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 19:13:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16762; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:13:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:13:28 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000404215209.00980b40@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 22:13:36 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, scspm@public.sta.net.cn, fepps@fidalgo.net From: Rymel Subject: RE: "Qi" : BHS in Modern Science In-Reply-To: References: <38E86013.300A@public.sta.net.cn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"nFIzX1.0.k54.85gwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i take kung fu classes right now, and i'm very interested in the martial arts, and i believe that Qi (Chi, Ki, etc..) is somehow related to aether. Because from what i understand, both of them are referred to as what makes the entire universe. If Aether and Qi are misdirected, than the quality of life declines. But, if it is focused properly your life becomes more complete. Is this not true? Chinese stories (and movies, which are based on these stories) usually told of men with 'supernatural powers', people who could focus their Qi into a physical manifestation. Aren't people trying to do the same thing with aether? Maybe not in the same form, but in the same context. Some people try to create aetherical thrust with experiments while martial arts practitioners try to focus their chi to make their movements stronger, more powerful and pronounced. I've been told that when one who can focus their chi properly and does so while doing their forms, it looks extremely impressive, even if the demonstrator thinks he did something wrong. As different as these two examples are, i hope you can see my point.. As for Qi flowing electronically....i have this question: what is the net exactly? is it nothing more than a worldwide network of machines? what happens when they all go off? does it go away? Is it just another say...plane of existence? science fiction always theorizes about transferring consciousness into the net. If that were possible, where would the entity exist? when he moves throughout the net, where is his being? it's not in a machine, is it? so where does it go? Maybe it's going through an aether/qi flow? after all, aether (qi?) are the fabric of the universe, correct? > > 9) "Qi" can be quantized and computerized to meet modern computer and > > space time. > >This is very interesting. This implies that Qi is at least partly >INFORMATION and not ENERGY. isn't everything energy? Fred, do you take Tai Chi? If you do, you may notice that during your movement through the form, you may feel as if time slows around you, like you can control it while you do these movements. Something similar is when you put your all into something, everything seems to slow. Time and space are just another dimension, so why can't you control it with Qi? It's sad to find that the more we've progressed through time the more we move away from the old teachings, and refuse to accept them in exchange for something more tangible. If Qi is related to or IS aether, then mastery of qigong exercises could bring you one step closer to manipulating aether. i know i sound WAY out there, but these is just my thoughts. Feel free to flame me or compare, i just want to know what you all think of my ramlbings. thanks.. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 19:18:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19880; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:18:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:18:27 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <38EA4C64.AD15D5FE@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:11:16 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Funky things, graneau effect and Faile effect. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kYtHl1.0.Ws4.o9gwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Graneau effect is rumored to occur when a high amp current is passed through a conductor, the conductor generates a force in the direction of the current flow. Didn't think much of it till someone mentioned it on a slashdot.org post article involving the recent Anti-G experiments that JNaudin is trying to duplicate. Said poster said he heard from a friend who worls for a company that makes spy sats that the use a special alloy rod that gives a 'kick' when current applied. Graneau effect would be perfect for Spy sats, which need to change orbit often, and have service times of several years. With solar panels, it'd be powerful to power such a device, and save on fuel weight. Faile effect of anomalous transparency. Unlike most fringe science, this is cheaply repeatable and something I have seen with my own eyes. As of yet, I am still not sure if it's an optical illusion. But I am trying to maximize it and hopefully photograph it. By cropping in image analysis, it becomes possible to remove optical triggers that may trick the brain into seeing something that isn't there. From the bad compressed photos on the webpage, and my own experiments, I feel this phenomena may actually be real... I've talked to Nick Reiter, and plan on calling Dr. Faile soon to see if he can help in maximizing said effect. I would love to have a device capable of astounding a physics prof. :) http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/anmtrnspr.htm Anyways, Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 19:48:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27709; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:48:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:48:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000404185120.212f5188@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:51:20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Antigravity with Superluminal Field Rotation ? In-Reply-To: <20000404.171104.-455619.1.tv@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dIt-21.0.om6.Acgwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim and all, At 04:48 PM 04/04/00 -0700, you wrote: >When I was still in high school, I met an engineer who worked for a >contractor based at the NASA Ames Research. He told me of just an >experiment which resulted in apparent "antigravity" effects. He built a >cylindrical faraday chamber made out of screen within which was placed 3 >vertically oriented dipoles positioned at the vertices of a triangle. He >phased the 28 megahertz output of a Heathkit DX-100 (a tube Ham radio >transmitter ) so the dipoles produced what he thought would be a electric >field that rotated faster than the speed of light. The proper phasing >was produced by using different lengths of coax cable to feed each of the >dipoles. A full sized dipole at 28 Mhz (10 meter amateur band) is 16.7 >feet longs. So he may have used shortened dipoles with coils. >He told me, very matter of factly, that small objects placed within the >chamber would levitate and float around. They would also, not >surprisingly, get hot, especially things like rubber erasers. >I have lost contact with the engineer, but reading the above brought this >back to my memory. > The velocity would vary as r. At a circum. of a wavelength, the velocity would be "c". This would be a diameter of wavelength/pi. I was thinking of a box wavelength/2 on a side which would contain this sphere or cylinder. Phased dipoles would be on the box. At 144MHz, it is about 1m/side. Do you know if he modulated the RF? The "gravity resonance coil" mentions modulation. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 20:40:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20353; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001301bf9ea7$7a1b4dc0$e5122aa2@pii400> From: "marty s." To: References: Subject: Re: Bedini Motors Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:34:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"BBvxv1.0.iz4.HLhwu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Subject: Bedini Motors > > I have a friend who has been in contact with John Bedini regarding the motor > plans shown on KeelyNet, link shown below: > > http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/bedmot.htm > > If I am not mistaken, the original science fair motor built by the young > girl was NOT intended to be O/U. Bedini supplied a new diagram to Jerry > Decker which, I am told, provides O/U capability if everything is adjusted > and timed properly. > > Regarding the new diagram Jerry added to the page on Mar. 31: Apparently > Bedini expressed that the two batteries in the circuit must be exchanged > periodically, so that the battery which powers the motor can be recharged. > > Needless to say, rechargeable batteries would have to be used if the device > is intended to run by itself indefinitely. > snip> Joseph Newman has had great success with using alkaline and dry-cell lantern batteries with his motors. They continually recharge. I don't think it's necessary to go to Ni-Cad. marty From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 20:57:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA19700; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:57:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:57:23 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:41:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Antigravity with Superluminal Field Rotation ? Message-ID: <20000404.204730.-204627.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4-6,8-11,13-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"FkpdT3.0.jp4.Ychwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The velocity would vary as r. At a circum. of a wavelength, the velocity >would be "c". This would be a diameter of wavelength/pi. I was thinking of >a box wavelength/2 on a side which would contain this sphere or cylinder. >Phased dipoles would be on the box. At 144MHz, it is about 1m/side. >Do you know if he modulated the RF? The "gravity resonance coil" mentions >modulation. >-Dave No, he did not mention anything about modulation, although the DX-100 was capable of amplitude modulaton (AM) as well as continous wave (CW). I am wondering if this has something to do with the Hutchinson effect ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 21:56:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08897; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 21:56:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 21:56:03 -0700 Message-ID: <38EAC63E.B6EDA684@bway.net> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 00:51:10 -0400 From: Caigan Organization: http://www.warpeace.org/WPmn.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Lightning Arrestor References: <20000404.204730.-204627.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bsupF1.0.wA2.ZTiwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, All! I'm moving shortly to a more rural locale, and was wondering if someone could suggest an electronics/amateur radio text that offers Detailed Info on hooking up a lightning arrestor to an antenna. I'm going to be stringing a fairly long wire between a couple of trees in the yard, and hooking up a simple led/diode rectifier circuit to this wire, which will then go to ground. A simple tunable circuit will be next, in hopes of grabbing a bit of useful current. An arrestor seems like a pretty good idea to me, 'cause the first passing storm is likely to zorch any gizmo in this array to powder. Thanks in advance, -Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 23:41:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA30025; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:40:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:40:39 -0700 From: MATTIARO@aol.com Message-ID: <7b.2b65043.261c39bf@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:39:59 EDT Subject: Re: Lightning Arrestor To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"KGmug1.0.-K7.Z_jwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The ARRL's Handbook has great info on that. Matti. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 00:14:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA05943; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:14:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:14:41 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lightning Arrestor Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 07:14:33 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38ebe5c9.170208496@mail.midiowa.net> References: <20000404.204730.-204627.0.tv@juno.com> <38EAC63E.B6EDA684@bway.net> In-Reply-To: <38EAC63E.B6EDA684@bway.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA05920 Resent-Message-ID: <"tn-mw3.0.mS1.WVkwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Khem, On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 00:51:10 -0400, Caigan wrote: > I'm moving shortly to a more rural locale, and was wondering if someone >could suggest an electronics/amateur radio text that offers Detailed >Info on hooking up a lightning arrestor to an antenna. I'm going to be >stringing a fairly long wire between a couple of trees in the yard, and >hooking up a simple led/diode rectifier circuit to this wire, which will >then go to ground. A simple tunable circuit will be next, in hopes of >grabbing a bit of useful current. An arrestor seems like a pretty good >idea to me, 'cause the first passing storm is likely to zorch any gizmo >in this array to powder. You can look lots of places, but I guaranteee you that your led/diode will burn out quickly. The voltage will be too high (thousands of volts build up unless directly drained to ground). That's without a nearby storm. To get power from the long wire, attach the lead from the wire to a spark plug. The screw-in side of the spark plug connects to the "hot" side of an automotive spark coil -- use a non-resistance spark plug wire between them. Wire the lead from the spark coil that normally goes to the automotive breaker points to a voltage regulator, and wire the voltage regulator to the + pole of a 12-volt battery (assuming a 12-volt voltage regulator). Wire the negative side of the spark coil, voltage regulator and battery to a good ground rod. I would suggest disconnecting everything when a lightning storm approaches. :) -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 02:26:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA31331; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:26:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:26:25 -0700 Message-Id: <200004050926.CAA01680@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 00:53:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: Sparky , "Freenrg-L" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZJjTb3.0.Sf7.0Rmwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Keith, Thanks for the offers and sorry for the late replies. Let me try to answer your questions: > I'd expect a spike if the Q was sufficiently high, otherwise there'd > be a gradual hump around resonance. It's hard to get high Q's with > air core coils; hence the popularity of permeable material (wink wink). I seem to remember measuring the Q at about 1000 using my old GenRad bridge. I have since drug out the big coil and measured it again using my Tektronix RMS meter. The capacitance measures in at 5000 pf, and this meters generally very accurate. So it's right in the middle of the numbers you quoted before - good guess! The resistance measures at only 1K instead of 1.5K, and I know the inductance was 3.5 H. > I'm stumped by what you mean by "more magnetism with less input power" I originally got into this by trying to understand magnetism. I only read Newman's book because he was one of the few people I had seen trying to explain magnetism in plain English. My intuition is that magnetism is electrons in motion outside of the physical thing we call the magnet. Like the protons are the physical object, and the electrons are flying around outside of it. Just like Newman shows. When I read about magnetism being equal to LI, I decided this might be one way to confirm that the electrons were playing a role in the magnetic field (I'm a Maxwellian by the way, I believe in either and particles - waves are for surfing). If a coil with more L could produce more magnetism (ie cubic feet of magnetism or in more scientific terms, the same flux intensity as well as flux density), then it would prove that the magnetic field was actually coming from the atoms in the wire and not just the ones being moved by the power source. So I put 1 W of power into a small coil wound from thick guage magnet wire and compare the field it generates to a field generated from the same 1 W of power flowing through a much larger coil. You must be sure to take into account the fact that the field generated by the larger coil is spread out over a larger area. That's why you need to take into account not only the intensity of the field (ie how strong it is) but also the density of the field (how many cubic feet of it you have). I know the field from the larger coil covers a much larger area than the small one. I have measured all around it and it seems to have the same strength anywhere in the core which is about 3"x16". To be conservative, I assume the field of the larger coil covers the same area as the smaller one, and just compare the field strength. If I'm getting more strength from it, the larger coil must be generating a larger field (ie both intensity and density are larger). To me, this shows that some of this magnetic field is coming from the wire being used and not just the power being driven through it. This implies that more work could be done by the larger coil with same amount of input power. I'm not trying to get all complicated by adding a spinning rotor and inertia and all that. Just starting small and trying to understand the properties of really large coils. So that's where I'm at. I have a hunch that all of this is already established fact and documented somewhere, but I have been unable to find a reliable reference. Newman's need for green eliminated him as a candidate. I'm also not a believer in his 'gyroscopic particle' theories. I think they are just electrons. I'll try to get some pictures of the coils up on my website soon so you see what I'm talking about. Again thanks for your offer to help and let me know if you still have questions about the coils. I don't have access to the expensive bridge or network analyzers anymore, but I have all the basic electronic equipment like scopes and meters. ...Z From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 02:26:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA31420; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:26:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:26:36 -0700 Message-Id: <200004050926.CAA01752@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 02:24:00 -0700 Subject: Re: "Qi" : BHS in Modern Science From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: rymel@mindspring.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, scspm@public.sta.net.cn, fepps@fidalgo.net Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hKCur3.0.qg7.BRmwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rymel, > i take kung fu classes right now, and i'm very interested in the martial > arts, and i believe that Qi (Chi, Ki, etc..) is somehow related to > aether. Because from what i understand, both of them are referred to as > what makes the entire universe. I think that the aether is just light, from visible to high-energy light, like X-Rays and higher energy frequencies that have the ability to pass through matter. If they can truly pass through matter, than there would be no place in the universe where you could go to escape them. Even the dark side of the moon is bathed in light - it's just not visible light. This would explain the cause of inertial mass in places where there is no gravity or atmosphere to push against you. There is always light, hence, there is always something you are travelling 'through' - even in a vacuum. > If Aether and Qi are misdirected, than the quality of life declines. > But, if it is focused properly your life becomes more complete. Is this not > true? In my experience, my quality of life is directly related to the things I do. Life goes best for me when I follow a course that seems to be laid out by someone/something else usually referred to by people as God (I should point out here that I'm not reader of the bible and have never gone to church on Sundays). I can pick the route, but this something else seems to pick the ultimate destination. I never thought about this something being aether, but it's a neat idea. It would explain why discoveries (like the discovery of Calculus) tend to be made by multiple people at the same time with no VISIBLE connections to each other. At the very least it would seem the aether would be an important tool of anything wishing to communicate. All that being said, I would say the most important factor in having a complete life is the ability to recognize that something's missing and do something about it. The secret to misery is having the time to wonder whether or not you're happy. > Chinese stories (and movies, which are based on these stories) usually > told of men with 'supernatural powers', people who could focus their Qi > into a physical manifestation. I think this one is more tricky. I believe that a lot of my 'wishes' seem to come true, but it can be a simple matter of perspective. For example, if I wish I didn't have to go to work tomorrow and then wake up sick and have to call in, did I catch a cold or get my wish? > science fiction always theorizes about > transferring consciousness into the net. If that were possible, where > would the entity exist? when he moves throughout the net, where is his > being? it's not in a machine, is it? so where does it go? Maybe it's going > through an aether/qi flow? after all, aether (qi?) are the fabric of the > universe, correct? > Neat idea, but I have a very different take on this one. I think this entity has the most effect on you at times when you are alone and quiet - no television, no radio, no friends, no kids. I believe the key contribution of the net is having people spend larger and larger amounts of time alone. I often describe the difference between television and the internet as television just streams things at you and you pick which stream you want to get. The internet doesn't stream (at least not yet). Instead, you have to ask it for things. When you search on something and it comes back with the list of what it found, which one do you click on? Based on what? I often just on whichever one 'feels' right - whatever that means. I think this entity has a big effect on what we all 'choose' to read on the internet. > isn't everything energy? > > Fred, do you take Tai Chi? If you do, you may notice that during your > movement through the form, you may feel as if time slows around you, like > you can control it while you do these movements. Something similar is when > you put your all into something, everything seems to slow. Time and space > are just another dimension, so why can't you control it with Qi? I don't take Tai Chi, but I do agree that when you really concentrate on something, you can change the flow of time. A lot of the new age people (like Deepak Chopra) say this happens when you are doing something you were truly made to do (ie your true calling). I think I like Einstein's version better, "When you are courting a pretty girl, and hour seems like a minute, when you are burning your hand on a fire, a minute seems like an hour - that's relativity." (apologies to Al if that's not the exact quote, but it's pretty close) I have found that for me, singing when I'm working or on a long drive makes the time pass much faster than listening to the radio. I think it's because when I'm singing, I'm concentrating on remembering the words and trying to get the notes right. It requires much more of my attention than just listening. I am sure that's why you see laborers doing it when they are working in the fields or on those cable archeology shows. It makes the time go by much faster. > If Qi is related to or IS aether, then mastery of > qigong exercises could bring you one step closer to manipulating aether. Hmmm, "manipulating aether" sounds a lot like being able to control it. I'd say it's more a cooperation than a command. If you are headed toward the destination that the Qi/aether/God/nature/life/the universe has chosen, it will let you take great liberties with the route. I think too many people spend too much time figuring out what this thing IS (not to mention making up new names for it) rather than just trying to figure out and follow the right path for them. > i > know i sound WAY out there, but these is just my thoughts. Feel free to > flame me or compare, i just want to know what you all think of my > ramlbings. thanks.. This is the main reason I'm replying to this. I say stuff that sounds 'WAY out there' to me all the time (I can't believe the stuff I've included here), but the courage to say it is almost always rewarded. I met a total stranger at a friend-of-a-friend's house tonight, and was talking about all these things and more after only about five minutes. In the end, our views of the world and religion were exactly the same. Years ago I had a hard time talking about any of this (including free energy) with even my closest friends. Now I can bring it up with strangers and rarely be ridiculed. I say go for it! ...Z BTW I would say more and more that my religion follows the Star Wars stuff. Perhaps what they call 'the force' is what you call Qi and what I call the aether. If it's light, it would 'penetrate everything', and if it causes gravity, then it would also, 'bind the universe together'. How's that for WAY out there? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 02:26:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA31351; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:26:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:26:27 -0700 Message-Id: <200004050926.CAA01724@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 00:57:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? From: "Scott Zimmerman" To: Sparky , "Freenrg-L" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qPAKt.0.mf7.3Rmwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > resonant frequency of the L-C circuit.) It was a pig to get it > operating at the correct point. We occasionally had it running, > (driving a permanent magnet motor used as a generator into a resistive > load), at what appeared to be efficiencies in excess of 100% for periods > of roughly 10 to 20 seconds before the system lost sync and slowly ran > down and stopped. At the risk of showing my ignorance, it seems like these big coils are LRC circuits all by themselves, with at least the L and C changing with input frequency. Wouldn't all these things be effected by temperature, not to mention the magnetic field generated by the coil? It seems to me the point of resonance would be a constantly moving target and you need some kind of feedback circuit to keep tuning it in. Have I grazed off the proverbial cliff? ...Z From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 08:16:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA26358; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:16:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:16:00 -0700 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:05:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Off Topic: Nerve Cell Regeneration also Re: "Qi": BHS in Modern Science Message-ID: <20000405.111055.-417493.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-8,19-20,22-26 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"CJg9-1.0.lR6.mYrwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:25:06 +0100 "David Callaghan" writes: > Tom - very late reply from my draft box >Nerve cells including brain cells can be regenerated. It happens naturally >in the brains of all mammals tested, including humans, contrary to >popular belief. [etc., snipped] Yes, I know that some nerve cell regeneration can occur, naturally and through modern techniques. However, that was the smallest part of my post. If I recall aright, you claimed to have a cure for all diseases known to man, as well as being able to reverse the damage. Although I recognize the value of herbal remedies, I cannot accept those claims. Many have died trying to treat themselves with alternative medicines when they could have lived through conventional medicine. If you truly had cures for all diseases, then you could make a fortune by selling them. If they truly worked, it would be no problem for you to prove so in double-blind studies, because the experimental group would have a 100% recovery rate. What is this "Qi" thing? I've never heard of it and Peter Hu's post left me completely in the dark, since it contained no explanations. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 10:18:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07056; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:18:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:18:07 -0700 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Off Topic: Nerve Cell Regeneration also Re: "Qi": BHS in Modern Science Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:55:52 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <20000405.111055.-417493.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20000405.111055.-417493.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00040513300508.00954@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA07029 Resent-Message-ID: <"oNP3N2.0.9k1.ELtwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 04 Apr 2000, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > Many have died trying to treat themselves with alternative medicines when > they could have lived through conventional medicine. Just as, many have died at the hands of conventional medicine when nothing more than rest and a good bowl of chicken soup would do. The problem with both conventional and alternative practicioners is that thier medicine is only as good as thier diagnostic skills. I have horror stories from both sides of the fence. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 11:37:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04152; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:37:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:37:33 -0700 Message-ID: <38EB1564.C9AA22AC@dabney.com> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 05:28:52 -0500 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Qi": BHS in Modern Science References: <20000405.111055.-417493.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xO7Jq3.0.m01.iVuwu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > What is this "Qi" thing? I've never heard of it and Peter Hu's post > left me completely in the dark, since it contained no explanations. As this sounded rather interesting, I did a little research. Qigong is a system of training that uses "qi" and has deep roots in eastern religion. For more info one of the more informative sites I found is: http://Acupuncture.com/QiKung/QikunInd.htm Mr. Hu (someone please correct me if I'm wrong!) was tying Qi in with quantum physics and made some interesting points, i.e. that this essence or energy can be measured, felt and possibly tapped into. My $0.02. ---------- "Qigong (pronounced chee goong) is a Chinese system of physical training, philosophy, and preventive and therapeutic health care." "Qi (or chi) means air, breath of life or vital essence." "The word Qi (Chi) is used to describe breath, vapor, air, and of course, the internal energy that Chinese medicine is so adept at strengthening." ---------- -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 13:39:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03762; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 13:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38EB17D2.3FC8E89@astra.ukf.net> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:39:15 +0100 From: Gavin Dingley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oscilloscope References: <20000402020452.45924.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aDrrx1.0.hw.GGwwu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim, which country are you in, United States? timothy richardson wrote: > Hey all, > > If anyone needs an oscilloscope - I've got a BK Precision 10 Mhz, model > 1471b - not sure about the age because I got it used. Works well, though, > never had a problem with it. I also have a bunch of HV transformers and > capacitors, email me directly if you're looking for something specific, or > about the 'scope. > > richardsontim@hotmail.com > > ps - (in light of all the recent posts on this issue, I got Bill's blessing > before posting this) > > TR > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 17:15:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28859; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 17:15:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 17:15:20 -0700 Message-ID: <38EB5DA4.7FF3D377@dove.net.au> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 01:07:08 +0930 From: gsawyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. References: <38EA5B18.D35D8FF4@info2000.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zzQf_3.0.n27.NSzwu"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have kept some of this information back for some time, but now feel that maybe it is relevant to release it at this point in time, for informational purposes. If Greg Watson Himself receives a copy of this text, then I trust that He will accept the spirit and manner in which it has been presented, and will forgive me for opening a subject that I know caused Him and His family a great deal of anguish. What I know as background.. Well, Greg Watson, whom I knew in the mid-70's, was involved in starting up and running a small company promoting Computers for the general population, Down in Adelaide (the capital of South Australia) - about 100 Kliks south of me. I knew Greg personally back then, at a time when very few people knew anything about these "new fangled" computers. Greg, Peter (Christie), Terry (McCarthy), and a few others of us, were at that time all either building up systems (S-100 and etc), or had them up and running, and saw the potential for the future - remember that we are talking about a time well prior to the "Apple", "TRS-80" and certainly nowhere near the incursion of "Big Blue" into the computer market. This is near the time that William developed a "Disk Operating System", in fact we read then about this "Wizz-Kid" in the U.S, in the original "Dr Dobbs Journal" - then a Roneod' 1 or 2 page affair, who looked to have some potential, and was basically writing the same sort of things as we were here - Well History shows, that "Bill G" made it work, while the rest of us were still trying to work out if what we were doing was even a viable proposition - let alone a Global marketing possibility. Yes, the "Wizz-Kid", young William, made it - we did not, but no grudges are held on that score, the quick or the dead - not literally, only in a marketing sense. As far as I recall, Greg was instrumental in developing a number of dedicated control and command systems - all Computer based, He also had a good grasp of "74" series logic functions (this is to provide some indication of the technical background of the Person), those that understood complex "chip" functions back then - stood a good chance of making a reasonable future for themselves. We used to get together in the basement of a large Government establishment, mainly concerned with the Racing Industry in this state, this was a place where there were "real" computers, just upstairs from us, (mainframes - networked via 300 Baud modems, to consoles throughout South Australia), we could all talk about our thoughts for the future, some of us were involved in "RTTY" - or Radio Teletype, a wireless version of the then common "TTY" machines that were starting to appear in offices all over Australia. At the same time, we were writing software to drive our "large" Floppy disk drives ( 70K Micropolis - remember them??? ), and developing a "BIOS" and "BDOS" designed to just get our systems going, we had good input from "The Team", Greg was a willing contributor to this input process. I lost touch with Greg, and all but 1 member of "The Team", over the passing years, it was only through the various "Free-Energy" lists that I once again made His acquaintance, after a very long break. His fledgling company was, as far as I recall, quite successful in Adelaide, He made a good "go" of it, and I am certain that at that time, there were many satisfied customers. I among a few others, on this and other lists, supported Greg, in fact those that submitted "SMOT Results", would have done so using a little piece of Java-Script, that I donated to Greg, (the second only piece of script that I had ever written back then), I did this to assist in the project - well to me, this was my way of making a contribution to F-E research. Not all researchers at that time (as indeed now), were able, prepared or even in a position to purchase "kits" or donate any "physical" resources to the various ideas that were being promulgated at that time. Greg was one of the founders of the company that eventually became the ISP that I currently use, (Microtronics - of which the ISP division became "DOVE"). Nothing persoanl here, I get no "freebies" from them and have no contact or connection with tham. other than being one of several hundred subscribers. When did things start to turn "pear shaped"? There was an original member of the ISP's "crew" that left under circumstances that might be described as "unhappily", I know that not long after this, Greg received a number of VERY threatening telephone calls, that although could not, with any certainty, be "pinned" down to this individual, the finger very much pointed in this direction. In fact a few contacts between Greg and Myself seemed to narrow the field down to either this, or some other still currently unknown individual. This was just after (or roughly) the same time that Greg had reached the point of "SMOT" research, where He was ready to start the distribution of the kits. Yes, Greg stated that he went on and looked at Patents etc, and that His "legal eagles" had recommended against further public release of His results. I am in no way defending Gregs' actions, in regard to refunds or etc, that is a matter between the individual intended purchasers and Greg Himself, neither am I defending or denying the morality or otherwise of the ensuing actions. What I did want to highlight are some facts that until now, no one has probably been aware, the background information to me shows that Greg was a sincere person, if I had received threats of a similar nature to that which Greg had, - whether to do with a dismissed business partner or any other aspect of my (or my families) personal work or research, and which physically threatened my personal well-being, then I too might have "stepped back" a number of paces from any public contact. As the threats were never (to my knowledge), accurately defined to any particular individual, then the case is still an "open" one. Sure maybe Greg did do some wrong things, but I do not think it was financially oriented - Greg did not (AFAIK), "need" the money, he had a very sound background in that respect. Neither do I think that there were any "Black"(?) forces involved, I bracketed that expression, for obvious reasons, that some would readily understand, Australia - although we still do have some fairly draconian security provisions, do not normally experience suppression of that type. This may have been a problem borne by a small error, that grew a long way out of proportion, who else actually achieved a "SMOT Roll-Around" anywhere near those that Greg had managed to achieve? I think that the answer would be - not that many. Did Greg reach a point where he had committed to "GO", and got a little too deep, realising that what HE had, MIGHT not be capable of being reproduced by all and sundry? No one likes to admit to failure, in fact this is one of the greatest "fear factors" amongst most humans. There may have been a better way to admit that "you might not be able to achieve the same results.." - but Greg did not find it soon enough. There you have some data that until now, you would probably not have been fully aware of, I will not be entering into any "flame-wars" on this subject - in fact Bill B would not appreciate that happening at all on this list - this is NOT what it is all about. Short-Form - This is not a defence or otherwise, but in respect of making errors of judgement, or mistakes and unadmitted failures, who amongst us, can honestly state that they have never made an error that they have not publicly admitted? indeed, are we / can we totally state that we have always been entirely truthful with OURSELVES, at all times? I thank you for your time, and hope that you found the information of benefit. If you wish to pass personal comments (OFF THE LIST), then fine, I'll use my own judgement whether or not to respond, and will only do so in areas that address the topic from the angle that I have indicated. Yours in on-going research, Glenville. --------------------------------------------------------------- Glenville T. Sawyer Alternative Energy Experimenter: http://www.gsawyer.mtx.net Located at Kapunda, in South Australia's Historical Corridor. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 18:17:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14955; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:17:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:17:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:15:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200004060115.VAA11397@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? Resent-Message-ID: <"EFxX7.0.Wf3.yM-wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi, All else aside, Greg manipulated our interest enough to send him funds. He did not follow through, nor return the funds. There is no excuse for this latter, after all this time has passed. Even if he is embarrassed, he should return the funds. He even said that he would send out free kits (if that post came from him) after refunding the monies. Where are the refunded monies? No one has reported getting them back. I did follow the Watson saga from beginning to end, reading every email quite raptly. That's why I ordered 2 SMOT kits. I now expect a refund. Actually, I now do not expect a refund, as it appears Greg does not plan to give one. Even if he comes through with kits, liberated from the supposed company which bought him out, that does not excuse his lack of action on the refunds. Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 19:39:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07955; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 19:39:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 19:39:16 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity as ZPE Push force (excellent !) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:38:33 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <20000404.171104.-455619.2.tv@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20000404.171104.-455619.2.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA07922 Resent-Message-ID: <"QFda13.0.Cy1.JZ_wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:10:53 -0700, tv@juno.com wrote: [snip] >When the electrons and protons have a common center of mass, you get the >long range Van der Waal's Force/Casmir Effect known as gravity. [snip] Consider the fact that gravity also affects neutrons. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 19:46:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA10202; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 19:46:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 19:46:20 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Qi" : BHS in Modern Science Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:45:43 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <9eunes0gu81f89d2f0krit08n165cjtf49@4ax.com> References: <200004050926.CAA01752@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <200004050926.CAA01752@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA10166 Resent-Message-ID: <"4GSvn2.0.IV2.yf_wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 02:24:00 -0700, Scott Zimmerman wrote: [snip] >I think that the aether is just light, from visible to high-energy light, >like X-Rays and higher energy frequencies that have the ability to pass >through matter. If they can truly pass through matter, than there would be [snip] While x-rays etc. do pass through matter, they also interact with it to some extent, creating ions. I think that if this were all there is to it, that there would need to be so much high energy radiation, that solid matter wouldn't exist, just a plasma of ions. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 20:05:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17911; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 20:05:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 20:05:32 -0700 Message-ID: <007001bf9f74$f6b8eb80$18b57ed8@m> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor - ideas on materials and production Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 20:05:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"K9nBq.0.mN4.xx_wu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Mathias Bage To: vortex-lb@eskimo.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 6:44 PM Subject: Gravity Capacitor - ideas on materials and production > >Maybe this guy is building the device with old-fashioned, thick, wax >paper [N.B: a thick wax layer is just mere speculation from my side] Also, Is there a difference between a 100kv VDG or similar rectified ac power supply? Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 21:15:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14705; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:15:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:15:05 -0700 Message-ID: <004701bf9f7f$f5194440$30a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <20000402020452.45924.qmail@hotmail.com> <38EB17D2.3FC8E89@astra.ukf.net> Subject: Re: Oscilloscope Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 20:23:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"6YvqT.0.bb3.8z0xu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How much do you want for the scope. markross@xyz.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin Dingley" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 2:39 AM Subject: Re: Oscilloscope > Hi Tim, > which country are you in, United States? > > timothy richardson wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > If anyone needs an oscilloscope - I've got a BK Precision 10 Mhz, model > > 1471b - not sure about the age because I got it used. Works well, though, > > never had a problem with it. I also have a bunch of HV transformers and > > capacitors, email me directly if you're looking for something specific, or > > about the 'scope. > > > > richardsontim@hotmail.com > > > > ps - (in light of all the recent posts on this issue, I got Bill's blessing > > before posting this) > > > > TR > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 23:20:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA15446; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:20:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:20:26 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Freenrg-L" Subject: Re: Magnetism = LI? Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 02:14:32 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"lQPB82.0.Cn3.ao2xu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott writes... >I seem to remember measuring the Q at about 1000 using my old GenRad bridge. >I have since drug out the big coil and measured it again using my Tektronix >RMS meter. The capacitance measures in at 5000 pf, and this meters >generally very accurate. So it's right in the middle of the numbers you >quoted before - good guess! The resistance measures at only 1K instead of >1.5K, and I know the inductance was 3.5 H. What kind of Tek meter are you using to measure the capacity of the coil? Given these values, I get a resonant frequency of ~1200hz. I'm not sure what you're measuring on the GenRad bridge, I assume this is a Q value for a given frequency? The whole business with Q is confusing, IMO. What I've found to be of use in my studies is a definition of Q based on the ratio of reactive impedance(X) to resistance (R) at resonance. Interestingly enough X is the same whether the circuit is series or parallel, that is sqrt(L/C). R in this case is your series resistance due to all that wire, which gives me a Q value around 26. Note with Q defined this way a Q value of 1 is critically damped, or just on the cusp of oscillation. All this to say your coil ought to ring like a bell. Also the resonance ought to be pretty sharp, if your numbers are correct. So time for a test. Here's a way to determine the capacity. Take a battery, a resistor, a switch, and your coil. Arrange thusly... GND----(battery)-(resistor)-(switch)--A--(coil)---GND Choose a value of resistor so that the current flow when the switch is closed is some reasonable value. Whats reasonable? Well, one where when you open the switch the resulting rise in voltage doesn't cause the switch to close (spark) or your scope to blow. I'd start pretty small, better to see a small signal than a big one. To quantify this 100ma should give you a nice 2000volt impulse... I'd start at 1ma. Now put the voltage probe at point A, with respect to GND. And trigger on the leading edge of the transient you generate when you open the switch. You should see a slowly decaying ringing, assuming your probe impedence is above a megaohm (pretty standard). With the frequency in hand, and a good measurement of L, use this formula. C = 1/(4*PI^2*F^2*L) and there you go. K. > I'm stumped by what you mean by "more magnetism with less input power" I originally got into this by trying to understand magnetism. I only read Newman's book because he was one of the few people I had seen trying to explain magnetism in plain English. My intuition is that magnetism is electrons in motion outside of the physical thing we call the magnet. Like the protons are the physical object, and the electrons are flying around outside of it. Just like Newman shows. When I read about magnetism being equal to LI, I decided this might be one way to confirm that the electrons were playing a role in the magnetic field (I'm a Maxwellian by the way, I believe in either and particles - waves are for surfing). If a coil with more L could produce more magnetism (ie cubic feet of magnetism or in more scientific terms, the same flux intensity as well as flux density), then it would prove that the magnetic field was actually coming from the atoms in the wire and not just the ones being moved by the power source. So I put 1 W of power into a small coil wound from thick guage magnet wire and compare the field it generates to a field generated from the same 1 W of power flowing through a much larger coil. You must be sure to take into account the fact that the field generated by the larger coil is spread out over a larger area. That's why you need to take into account not only the intensity of the field (ie how strong it is) but also the density of the field (how many cubic feet of it you have). I know the field from the larger coil covers a much larger area than the small one. I have measured all around it and it seems to have the same strength anywhere in the core which is about 3"x16". To be conservative, I assume the field of the larger coil covers the same area as the smaller one, and just compare the field strength. If I'm getting more strength from it, the larger coil must be generating a larger field (ie both intensity and density are larger). To me, this shows that some of this magnetic field is coming from the wire being used and not just the power being driven through it. This implies that more work could be done by the larger coil with same amount of input power. I'm not trying to get all complicated by adding a spinning rotor and inertia and all that. Just starting small and trying to understand the properties of really large coils. So that's where I'm at. I have a hunch that all of this is already established fact and documented somewhere, but I have been unable to find a reliable reference. Newman's need for green eliminated him as a candidate. I'm also not a believer in his 'gyroscopic particle' theories. I think they are just electrons. I'll try to get some pictures of the coils up on my website soon so you see what I'm talking about. Again thanks for your offer to help and let me know if you still have questions about the coils. I don't have access to the expensive bridge or network analyzers anymore, but I have all the basic electronic equipment like scopes and meters. ...Z From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 00:32:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA29024; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:31:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:31:55 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 07:31:51 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <38ee3c89.7894732@mail.midiowa.net> References: <38EA5B18.D35D8FF4@info2000.net> <38EB5DA4.7FF3D377@dove.net.au> In-Reply-To: <38EB5DA4.7FF3D377@dove.net.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA28989 Resent-Message-ID: <"9J8Yp2.0.L57.gr3xu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just a small nit. On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 01:07:08 +0930, gsawyer wrote: > This is near the time that William developed a "Disk Operating System", >in fact we read then about this "Wizz-Kid" in the U.S, in the original >"Dr Dobbs Journal" - then a Roneod' 1 or 2 page affair, who looked to >have >some potential, and was basically writing the same sort of things as we >were here Willie wrote a Basic interpreter for the 8080, as I recall. When the CP/M people stood up the IBM reps who wanted to buy CP/M-86 for their new computer, Willie was quick to say he'd get one for them. He did -- he bought one that Seattle Micro had developed and sold the rights to IBM. (I used both Willie's Basic and Seattle Micro's OS in the late 70's and early 80's.) -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 03:35:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA23122; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 03:34:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 03:34:53 -0700 From: Alan Schneider To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 20:34:26 +1000 Message-ID: References: <38EA5B18.D35D8FF4@info2000.net> <38EB5DA4.7FF3D377@dove.net.au> <38ee3c89.7894732@mail.midiowa.net> In-Reply-To: <38ee3c89.7894732@mail.midiowa.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA23103 Resent-Message-ID: <"qN-Wy1.0.Bf5.CX6xu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 07:31:51 GMT, dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) wrote: >Just a small nit. >On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 01:07:08 +0930, gsawyer >wrote: >> This is near the time that William developed a "Disk Operating System", >>in fact we read then about this "Wizz-Kid" in the U.S, in the original >>"Dr Dobbs Journal" - then a Roneod' 1 or 2 page affair, who looked to >>have >>some potential, and was basically writing the same sort of things as we >>were here >Willie wrote a Basic interpreter for the 8080, as I recall. Little Willie wrote quite a few ROM basic interpreters actually... not just for the 8080 - I think he covered the 6502 and 6800 as well, though I could be wrong on that point. I have heard that his name reeks in the nostrils of Amiga lovers even today for the apparently severely crippled and half baked abortion he foisted off on Commodore at that time. >When the >CP/M people stood up the IBM reps who wanted to buy CP/M-86 for their >new computer, Willie was quick to say he'd get one for them. He did >-- he bought one that Seattle Micro had developed and sold the rights >to IBM. (I used both Willie's Basic and Seattle Micro's OS in the >late 70's and early 80's.) Further to this... As I understand it, Seattle wrote their OS because Gary Kildall and Digital Research were WAY slow off the mark releasing CP/M-86 - Seattle had an 8086 based S100 card and no OS to run on it so they rolled their own, calling it QDOS. QDOS stood for "Quick and Dirty Operating System" ... and thus was MessyDOS born and the Evil Empire begun. ... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 05:30:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA08450; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 05:30:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 05:30:26 -0700 Message-ID: <20000406122951.99111.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.4] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oscilloscope Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 05:29:51 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"g4p7a.0.x32.XD8xu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Gavin, Yes, I'm in the US. Iowa to be specific. You can email me directly at richardsontim@hotmail.com Thanks! TR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 06:59:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA01574; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:59:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:59:16 -0700 Message-ID: <002701bf9fd1$37340300$bd1b16cb@rogerdw> From: "Roger Weichert" To: References: <38EA5B18.D35D8FF4@info2000.net> <38EB5DA4.7FF3D377@dove.net.au> Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:34:25 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"93xAc.0.KO.pW9xu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Subject: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. > I have kept some of this information back for some time, but now feel > that maybe it is relevant to release it at this point in time, for > informational purposes. (snip) G'day Glenville and all, Thanks for filling in some of the details about Greg Watson . I have just one question. Did you ever see the SMOT setup in real life ? I belong to an ASTRO group in Adelaide (Alternative Science and Technology Research Organisation) and at the height of the interest in the SMOT, one of our members asked Greg along to demonstrate the device. It was all arranged but on the night he didn't show, despite frantic phone calls etc. Glenville, just an aside... it's a small world. I grew up at Kapunda and my folks still live there! Roger Weichert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 07:29:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA14241; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:29:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:29:41 -0700 From: "Stefano Innocenti" To: "freenrg-l" Subject: Stepper motors and overunity Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:26:23 +0200 Message-ID: <01bf9fd4$15bf3980$3900fd80@zio-stefo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LA82Y3.0.LU3.Kz9xu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi list, I am working with stepper motors for robotic applications, and I'm thinking about how these motors working... There are some coil-windings in a motor (4 for example). When I send to a coil a low impulse, the motor makes one step. Then I send another low impulse to the next coil and the motor makes another step, and so on... Well, for every stepping impulse, there are the 3 other coils that transform the magnetic field of the motor in electricity. There is someone that has studied if the 3 other coils produce more energy than the first coil? And how (a multiplexer circuit?) extract this energy? I hope my bad English could be understood... Ciao, Stefano -------------------------Stefano Innocenti --------------------------- http://utenti.tripod.it/razzimodellismo ACME I-RM-01 http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia http://utenti.tripod.it/missilistica From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 07:32:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15530; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:32:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:32:31 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:28:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Gravity as ZPE Push force (excellent !) Message-ID: <20000406.072939.-81797.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"NezuO.0.Yo3.z_9xu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, but even the neutron seems to have charges "inside". They decay into a proton, an electron, and a neutrino. Tim On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:10:53 -0700, tv@juno.com wrote: [snip] >When the electrons and protons have a common center of mass, you get the >long range Van der Waal's Force/Casmir Effect known as gravity. [snip] Consider the fact that gravity also affects neutrons. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 08:51:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15495; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:50:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:50:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:50:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: gsawyer cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. In-Reply-To: <38EB5DA4.7FF3D377@dove.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"x31D-3.0.0o3.T9Bxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, gsawyer wrote: > I have kept some of this information back for some time, but now feel > that maybe it is relevant to release it at this point in time, for > informational purposes. Mind if I fwd this to vortex-L? Lots of SMOT-ers over there. It's certainly refreshing to hear your take on things. Bravo! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 10:36:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23221; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:36:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:36:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:32:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200004061732.NAA01156@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff? Resent-Message-ID: <"hZOHu1.0.jg5.PiCxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Ted wrote: > I really suspect that Greg Watson is just a really poor > money manager (like a lot of people that I happen to know). > > I think that he probably spent the money as it came in and > then when he realized that he couldn't deliver, he couldn't > do anything about it. I'd bet that he feels pretty bad about > the whole can of worms, too. Greg stated something to the effect that he was retired after running a successful electronics firm, implying he was fairly well off. Refunding the monies should not be a problem therefore, even if he did spend what we all sent him... Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 15:18:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA23897; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:17:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:17:44 -0700 Message-ID: <38ECE860.743C4A8B@astra.ukf.net> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 20:41:20 +0100 From: Gavin Dingley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Stepper motors and overunity References: <01bf9fd4$15bf3980$3900fd80@zio-stefo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G5qTZ2.0.Br5.7qGxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefano, if you connect a load to one of the other three coils in the magnet, then the electrical current in them will generate a magnetic force. This magnetic force will then increase the torque on the motor and so draw more current from the one coil that is being impulsed to drive it. This is called Lenzes law (I think?), which states that the induced current in a conductor will produce a field which opposes the inducing current. You can try this by connecting a load across one of the other coils and measure the current flowing into the impulsed coil. You should find that the current goes up a bit when you connect the load. However this is all theory, try it, you still may get over unity. On thing you could try is forming a resonant circuit with the tree other coils and a capacitor (i.e. connect all coils in series with a capacitor, then measure the voltage across the capacitor). Theoretically the impulsed torque of the motors movement will generate so many harmonics, that you could tune into one with the resonant circuit. The next move would be to put a flywheel on the motor axial, then see what happens. All should be an afternoons work. Well good luck and let me know how you get on. Gavin Stefano Innocenti wrote: > Hi list, > > I am working with stepper motors for robotic applications, and I'm thinking > about how these motors working... > There are some coil-windings in a motor (4 for example). When I send to a > coil a low impulse, the motor makes one step. Then I send another low > impulse to the next coil and the motor makes another step, and so on... > Well, for every stepping impulse, there are the 3 other coils that transform > the magnetic field of the motor in electricity. There is someone that has > studied if the 3 other coils produce more energy than the first coil? > And how (a multiplexer circuit?) extract this energy? > > I hope my bad English could be understood... > > Ciao, Stefano > > -------------------------Stefano Innocenti --------------------------- > http://utenti.tripod.it/razzimodellismo ACME I-RM-01 > http://utenti.tripod.it/altraenergia http://utenti.tripod.it/missilistica From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 16:04:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08114; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:04:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:04:22 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity as ZPE Push force (excellent !) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:03:52 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <20000406.072939.-81797.0.tv@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20000406.072939.-81797.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA08086 Resent-Message-ID: <"k7Uy.0.h-1.rVHxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:28:27 -0700, tv@juno.com wrote: >Yes, but even the neutron seems to have charges "inside". They decay >into >a proton, an electron, and a neutrino. > >Tim True, and this was largely my point. If gravity is electromagnetic in origin, then it must work at the lowest level of particle existence. There is an interesting article in Infinite Energy [1] in which the author describes a novel structure for baryons. Perhaps the "leakage" of the resulting nuclear force is what constitutes gravity? 1. "Checkerboard Structure of the Nucleus", Theodore M. Lach II, Infinite Energy, Vol 5 issue 30 page 59. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 20:31:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24150; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:30:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:30:48 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <88.220a639.261eb03e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:30:06 EDT Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"0rLVX3.0.Bv5.ePLxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/5/00 5:18:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gsawyer@dove.net.au writes: > Sure maybe Greg did do some wrong things, but I do not think it was > financially oriented - Greg did not (AFAIK), "need" the money, he had > a very sound background in that respect. > > > Neither do I think that there were any "Black"(?) forces involved, > I bracketed that expression, for obvious reasons, that some would > readily > understand, Australia - although we still do have some fairly draconian > security provisions, do not normally experience suppression of that > type. > > > > This may have been a problem borne by a small error, that grew a long > way out of proportion, who else actually achieved a "SMOT Roll-Around" > anywhere near those that Greg had managed to achieve? > > I think that the answer would be - not that many. > > Did Greg reach a point where he had committed to "GO", and got a little > too deep, realising that what HE had, MIGHT not be capable of being > reproduced by all and sundry? > > No one likes to admit to failure, in fact this is one of the greatest > "fear factors" amongst most humans. > > > There may have been a better way to admit that "you might not be able > to achieve the same results.." - but Greg did not find it soon enough. I found this to be a very interesting and informative post. My biggest problem with the whole affair (since I didn't lose any money) was that in one particular post (and only one -- I don't think he repeated it) I recall he stated he had a SMOT run for about three days totally on its own and a RMOT ran something like three hours on its own. If my recollection is accurate it seems clear at this point the statements were at best wishful thinking and at worst an attempt to improve the economic viability of the project. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 20:53:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30407; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:53:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:53:16 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Freenrg-L" Subject: It has come time to reaquaint the list with the saga of Greg Watson Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:51:01 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"JoOXI2.0.zQ7.ikLxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes folks, it seems like time has blurred the old memory channels and we're all scratching ourselves thinking, "hmmm..." Here's Greg in his own words. http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7389/ I don't know who made this or why, but it is a nice distillation of that bit of list history. K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 21:26:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA07082; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:25:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:25:54 -0700 Message-ID: <20000407042521.56403.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [209.152.104.68] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oscilloscope Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:25:21 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"4eCTZ1.0.Yk1.HDMxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >How much do you want for the scope. markross@xyz.net >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gavin Dingley" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 2:39 AM >Subject: Re: Oscilloscope I'm looking for $150.00, but I'll haggle. TR ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 07:07:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA12748; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 07:07:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 07:07:00 -0700 Message-ID: <38EDEB93.BF24C743@dove.net.au> Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 23:37:15 +0930 From: gsawyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. References: <38EA5B18.D35D8FF4@info2000.net> <38EB5DA4.7FF3D377@dove.net.au> <002701bf9fd1$37340300$bd1b16cb@rogerdw> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CY5bf2.0.173.2kUxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Roger Weichert: No, I didn't see a live demo, only contact with Greg was basically Phone or Electronic. ( an aside - would that be Dennis and Val ) ??????? Bill Beaty: I am certain that Vortex-L would like to know, as I stated, this is the only information that I have, I cannot amplify further, as I too have had no further contact, and know only what I have passed on. The information is neither a defence or otherwise of the actions, other than some (long term) feedback, that might help those that did not see a successful conclusion to certain aspects of the SMOT research. O.k All the best to the readers. Glenville. --------------------------------------------------------------- Glenville T. Sawyer Alternative Energy Experimenter: http://www.gsawyer.mtx.net Located at Kapunda, in South Australia's Historical Corridor. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 08:22:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04013; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38EDFCCB.628AAF67@dove.net.au> Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:50:43 +0930 From: gsawyer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Stepper motors and overunity References: <01bf9fd4$15bf3980$3900fd80@zio-stefo> <38ECE860.743C4A8B@astra.ukf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9Ei532.0.H-.SpVxu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: O.k so we have a "standard" 4 step stepper motor driver, all 4 coils connected to the driver transistors (or whatever) in a D.C configuration, set up and running correctly. Some experimental Ideas for you.. Why not have a look at connecting out from the Coil windings through a set of Capacitors ( which obviously will not pass D.C ), then you can play with rectifying the low level A.C pulses that will appear across the 4 coils - without upsetting the D.C circuit conditions. A simple rectifier circuit will provide you with a recovered D.C voltage. Then play with a combination (you could try this on the A.C side if you wanted) - and see if combinations of connections are able to be connected in an "aiding" or "opposing" configuration. Try paralleling the rectified (D.C) outputs, would you see that as being a valid experiment? I don't think this would be too hard to setup on the bench. For those that want to play with the idea, check out some old Floppy-Disk drives for the electronics to drive the stepper - that is already in there! Then use the A.C connection method outlined above as the basis for further experimentation and recording of results (good OR bad). Whatever you do end up testing, then let the group know what YOU have found. I might have a look at this myself after the currently very busy time (for me) has passed in the next week or two. Just my badly devalued $0.02 worth. Glenville. --------------------------------------------------------------- Glenville T. Sawyer Alternative Energy Experimenter: http://www.gsawyer.mtx.net Located at Kapunda, in South Australia's Historical Corridor. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 03:45:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA10343; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 03:45:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 03:45:27 -0700 Message-ID: <00d301bfa147$7d9db260$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: <20000405.111055.-417493.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> Subject: Re: Off Topic: Nerve Cell Regeneration also Re: "Qi": BHS in Modern Science Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 11:32:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"uay7S3.0.WX2.7tmxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tom I didn't claim anything. Must have been someone else. ----- Original Message ----- From: > Yes, I know that some nerve cell regeneration can occur, naturally and > through modern techniques. However, that was the smallest part of my > post. If I recall aright, you claimed to have a cure for all diseases > known to man, as well as being able to reverse the damage. Although I From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 06:23:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA27212; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 06:23:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 06:23:33 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01bfa15e$94b5bf80$a21b16cb@rogerdw> From: "Roger Weichert" To: "Scott Zimmerman" , References: <002201bf9c9a$27acdcc0$bd8ff5d1@dell> Subject: Re: The G.E.E.T. Motor Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 23:00:16 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFA1AE.3440B2E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"NoSu5.0.5f6.KBpxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFA1AE.3440B2E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable G'day Scott, I find these details particuarly interesting... excellent information. You mentioned being able to start and run it on 5% gas and 95% water. = (who needs f.e. thats close enough for me) I'm almost not game enough to ask but how long did it run on that = mixture? full jar? By the way, excellent photos of the setup on your site. Regards Roger. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Scott Zimmerman=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 9:21 PM Subject: The G.E.E.T. Motor Hi there, I was hesitant to write about this before, because I didn't want to = seem like I was promoting=20 (snip) I saw the G.E.E.T. demo in Arizona once and later bought one when Paul = Pantone and the team were visiting a small town in California. He sold = me a small 3.5 HP engine with a G.E.E.T. device installed. It cost $700 = (ouch). They had a lot of devices to show both times I've seen them. = But I was interested in something I could take home and test myself. = After trying to by one of the 5kW generators they were selling and = finding they were sold out, I resorted to buying the smaller demo unit. =20 (snip) Okay, now the good news. We've run this thing for 10-20 hours now = with some pretty cool results. Let me start by saying that we've never = seen it run on pure water or produce anything that seemed like real free = energy, but the results are encouraging to say the least. We began by experimenting with what the motor would run on. It runs = very good on gasoline or oil. You can run pure used oil in it and it = will barely smoke. You can also run things like soda and coffee without = it seizing up. We ran it on various combinations of gas and water and = found that it would start and run on as little as 5% gas to 95% water. = Skeptics (like me) would say that the bubbler in the fuel tank is simply = separating the gas from the water before it goes into the engine. But = that doesn't seem to be the case. (snip) ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFA1AE.3440B2E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
G'day Scott,
 
I find these details particuarly=20 interesting...  excellent information.
 
You mentioned being able to start and = run it on 5%=20 gas and 95% water. (who needs f.e.   thats close enough for=20 me)
 
I'm almost not game enough to ask but = how long did=20 it run on that mixture?  full jar?
 
By the way, excellent photos of the = setup on your=20 site.
 
Regards  Roger.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Scott=20 Zimmerman
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 = 9:21=20 PM
Subject: The G.E.E.T. = Motor

Hi there,
 
I was hesitant to write about this = before,=20 because I didn't want to seem like I was promoting
(snip)
I saw the G.E.E.T. demo in Arizona = once and later=20 bought one when Paul Pantone and the team were visiting a small town = in=20 California.  He sold me a small 3.5 HP engine with a G.E.E.T. = device=20 installed.  It cost $700 (ouch).  They had a lot of devices = to show=20 both times I've seen them.  But I was interested in something I = could=20 take home and test myself.  After trying to by one of the 5kW = generators=20 they were selling and finding they were sold out, I resorted to buying = the=20 smaller demo unit.
 
(snip)
Okay, now the good news.  We've = run this=20 thing for 10-20 hours now with some pretty cool results.  Let me = start by=20 saying that we've never seen it run on pure water or produce anything = that=20 seemed like real free energy, but the results are encouraging to say = the=20 least.
 
We began by experimenting with what = the motor=20 would run on.  It runs very good on gasoline or oil.  You = can run=20 pure used oil in it and it will barely smoke.  You can also run = things=20 like soda and coffee without it seizing up.  We ran it on various = combinations of gas and water and found that it would start and run on = as=20 little as 5% gas to 95% water.  Skeptics (like me) would say that = the=20 bubbler in the fuel tank is simply separating the gas from the water = before it=20 goes into the engine.  But that doesn't seem to be the = case.
 (snip)
 
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFA1AE.3440B2E0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 10:48:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20308; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:48:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:48:38 -0700 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 13:46:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Off Topic: Nerve Cell Regeneration also Re: "Qi": BHS in Modern Science Message-ID: <20000408.134610.-384569.3.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,11-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"lg-TL1.0.Dz4.r3txu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 11:32:35 +0100 "David Callaghan" writes: > Hi Tom > > I didn't claim anything. Must have been someone > else. That's possible, I can't find the original message (I've probably deleted it since it's been so long since the original post). Sorry for the misunderstanding. Someone did, however, claim to have the cures for all diseases known and even how to reverse the effects. What a quack that person must be; he has yet to respond to my post that you reffered to. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 14:03:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25794; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 14:03:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 14:03:42 -0700 Message-ID: <000901bfa19f$17dcedd0$6ea8bdd4@marc> From: "Marc Kroeks (Zonnet.nl)" To: References: <20000408.134610.-384569.3.tgrimes1@juno.com> Subject: Re: Off Topic: Nerve Cell Regeneration also Re: "Qi": BHS in Modern Science Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 23:12:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"s_zYZ.0.tI6.jwvxu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, I am getting these emails, but I do not know to which list they belong. Any way, I read something about Hulda Clark writing a book called The Cure for All Diseases. You can find some on it on the Internet. Friendly yours, Marc Kroeks (NL) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2000 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Off Topic: Nerve Cell Regeneration also Re: "Qi": BHS in Modern Science > On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 11:32:35 +0100 "David Callaghan" > writes: > > Hi Tom > > > > I didn't claim anything. Must have been someone > > else. > That's possible, I can't find the original message (I've probably > deleted it since it's been so long since the original post). Sorry for > the misunderstanding. Someone did, however, claim to have the cures for > all diseases known and even how to reverse the effects. What a quack > that person must be; he has yet to respond to my post that you reffered > to. > > -Tom Grimes > > mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 18:45:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25777; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:45:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:45:32 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <38EF8E27.FF3700F9@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 14:53:11 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Faile Effect... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I_2kR1.0.gI6.y2-xu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Okay, I've been doing some simple experiments to test this out. If you are intrested, I can post the first batch of my observations to this group. Even if this is just a optical illusion, it makes for a fancy parlor trick. :) But being able to see a pair of pliers through your fingertips is rather intresting. Hopefully I'll be able to get ahold of some of the photos that sam has told me about, and I'll post them to the group if you all are intrested. Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 03:25:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA12591; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 03:24:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 03:24:45 -0700 Message-ID: <38F05994.85643FC2@pacific.net.hk> Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 18:21:08 +0800 From: Whatthehell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cUosR.0.Z43.if5yu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hey guys, can you send me links on home made hoverboard studies? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 10:06:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09541; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:05:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:05:40 -0700 From: Wellsprng5@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:04:55 EDT Subject: Re: (no subject) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"FbvcB3.0.-K2.YXByu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: me too??? the hover boards I mean :-) could you hyper likn them to me when you get them...? thanks Julie at welsprng5@aol.com :-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 10:07:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09250; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:04:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:04:22 -0700 From: Wellsprng5@aol.com Message-ID: <1c.21f1937.262211ef@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:03:43 EDT Subject: Re: Faile Effect... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"tEWw5.0.RG2.MWByu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry, i missed the first half of your discussion...could you send me the experiment? seeing thru your hand...etc? Thanks, Julie at welsprng5@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 10:37:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18630; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:36:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:36:53 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: "Freenrg-L" Subject: Faile effect Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:34:33 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"NFQNM3.0._Y4.q-Byu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK, here's one for you. Take the cardboard roll from a paper towel, hold it up to you right eye. Take your left hand, hold it next to the roll, palm facing out. Looking with both eyes, note how a hole appears in the center of your hand, and you can clearly see through to the other side. hehehe. K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 10:44:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20086; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:44:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:44:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:44:06 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. In-Reply-To: <002701bf9fd1$37340300$bd1b16cb@rogerdw> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ek9e-1.0.dv4.e5Cyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Roger Weichert wrote: > G'day Glenville and all, > > Thanks for filling in some of the details about Greg Watson . > > I have just one question. Did you ever see the SMOT setup in real life ? Did *ANYONE* see one in operation? It's understandable that he wouldn't ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 11:25:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA29026; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 11:24:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 11:24:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 11:24:14 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3Va9K1.0.K57.IhCyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, William Beaty wrote: > > Did *ANYONE* see one in operation? > > It's understandable that he wouldn't Oops, hit Send instead of Cancel. Anyway... it's somewhat understandable that he wouldn't post videos of an operating device. It certainly would attract attention from far beyond the list, and if I were in his shoes, I'd think hard before bringing in massive publicity early. (But I might do it anyway.) But talking about the success, and showing it privately to friends and colleagues, is something different! If I achieved a rollaround, to say nothing of hours-long operation, I'd be dragging people in to see it (including the neighbors!), pushing NDAs left and right, and excitedly jabbering a blue streak about it. Greg never did this. He didn't ACT as if he achieved success. By this I mean that he didn't act like *I* would have acted. This might be explained by his secretive behavior. But sometimes secrecy is just an act, and it hides dishonesty, so when any inventor is being secretive, there is always reason not to be entirely trusting. And UNNECESSARY secrecy is a major clue to lies in progress, or pathological science (self-lies, rather than intentional lies.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 12:38:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17014; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 12:38:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 12:38:19 -0700 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 18:10:31 +0100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: Stepper motors and overunity References: <01bf9fd4$15bf3980$3900fd80@zio-stefo> <38ECE860.743C4A8B@astra.ukf.net> <38EDFCCB.628AAF67@dove.net.au> In-Reply-To: <38EDFCCB.628AAF67@dove.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Resent-Message-ID: <"NRVxg1.0.k94.gmDyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In message <38EDFCCB.628AAF67@dove.net.au>, gsawyer writes > >O.k so we have a "standard" 4 step stepper motor driver, >all 4 coils connected to the driver transistors (or whatever) >in a D.C configuration, set up and running correctly. > > >Some experimental Ideas for you.. > > Why not have a look at connecting out from the Coil windings >through a set of Capacitors ( which obviously will not pass > D.C ), then you can play with rectifying the low level A.C pulses >that will appear across the 4 coils - without upsetting the D.C circuit >conditions. > > A simple rectifier circuit will provide you with a recovered >D.C voltage. > > Then play with a combination (you could try this on the A.C side >if you wanted) - and see if combinations of connections are able to >be connected in an "aiding" or "opposing" configuration. > > Try paralleling the rectified (D.C) outputs, would you see that as >being a valid experiment? > > I don't think this would be too hard to setup on the bench. > >SNIPPED.... > Commercial 2 or 4 phase stepper motors have high-resistance field coil windings. From my own experience of switched-reluctance motors and generators you need really low resistance field coils to see any anomalous effects. To me, this means that if there are real OU effects, they don't provide much extra energy, and it's absorbed as heat because of the resistance of the field coils. -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 17:48:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA18611; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 17:48:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 17:48:09 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <38F0A966.1BC628C4@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 11:01:42 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Faile effect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U9C8i2.0.iY4.8JIyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keith Nagel wrote: > > OK, here's one for you. > > Take the cardboard roll from a paper towel, hold it up to you > right eye. Take your left hand, hold it next to the roll, palm > facing out. Looking with both eyes, note how a hole appears > in the center of your hand, and you can clearly see through > to the other side. > > hehehe. > > K. Har Har. Uhm, but this even works if you close an eye! ;) Hmmm, guess I might want to wait a little before posting results till I determine a real good setup. BTW, it's no more kooky than the weird ether theories, and PPM machines floating around here, and it is easily duplicable with about $20 of materials... Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 19:40:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA10703; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:39:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:39:05 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Faile effect Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 22:36:55 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <38F0A966.1BC628C4@worldnet.att.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"d37mb3.0.3d2.9xJyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well Dan; If you don't like my first example, try this. Hold your finger out in front of you, and focus into the distance straight ahead. Now move your finger to your right keeping your arm extended. There will be a point where the tip of your finger will either disappear or have a hole in it. The hole looks like the backround. The brain actually fills this little bit of the image in for you... K. PS: So I've seen the material on Faile and I still don't understand. Please give an example. > Hmmm, guess I might want to wait a little before posting results till I >determine a real good setup. > BTW, it's no more kooky than the weird ether theories, and PPM machines >floating around here, and it is easily duplicable with about $20 of >materials... > Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 20:12:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22942; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:11:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:11:50 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <38F0F3F7.E2DBDA5B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 16:19:51 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Faile effect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7IG4Z2.0.Nc5.rPKyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keith Nagel wrote: > > Well Dan; > > If you don't like my first example, try this. > > Hold your finger out in front of you, and focus into > the distance straight ahead. Now move your finger to your > right keeping your arm extended. There will be a point where > the tip of your finger will either disappear or have a hole > in it. The hole looks like the backround. The brain actually > fills this little bit of the image in for you... > > K. > > PS: So I've seen the material on Faile and I still > don't understand. Please give an example. > > Argh, *snicker*.... Well it's really quite simple. Under the proper lighting conditons, it appears that you can see objects through normally opaque materials. Faile first noticed it using a screwdriver and his arm. He could see part of the screwdriver through his arm. Now, I am not 100% satisfied this is not a optical illusion. But from photos I have gotten, I've cropped out what would be triggers for my brain, and yes, the contours of objects behind another opaque object can still be seen. Hopefully, and I'm still fiddling with the parameters, I will get it good enough to make it possible to take photos and then analyze them. Right now, the lighting conditions are probably a tad low. I've ordered some high intensity blue-green LEDs so I can replicate the conditions under which he first saw the effect. What makes me think it's not a optical illusion is that in the case of bent rods, etc, My mind doesn't draw a straight line if I hide the bent part under my arm. It's still bent looking. ------------------------ \ < ARM over bent rod, faint image of bend is appearent. \ | ------------------------ | | If it was a mental closure effect, I should see a straight shadowy line through my arm, but I don't. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 21:05:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA02821; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:05:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:05:10 -0700 Reply-To: "Sparky" From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Faile effect Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:03:00 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <38F0F3F7.E2DBDA5B@worldnet.att.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"YUa3E.0.wh.sBLyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi. Yet another example... There's an urban folk piece of spam that speaks of a jesus face. You stare at the face for a while and when you look up at another object; by gawd ya see jesus in it. Well as you might imagine seeing an afterimage in the complementary color might be an explanation. Then the image tracks the original and as you point out the color under which you see the effect is critical? I was always a big fan of those perceptual distortion educational shorts.... K. -----Original Message----- From: crusoe@eskimo.com [mailto:crusoe@eskimo.com]On Behalf Of Daniel Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2000 5:20 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Faile effect Keith Nagel wrote: > > Well Dan; > > If you don't like my first example, try this. > > Hold your finger out in front of you, and focus into > the distance straight ahead. Now move your finger to your > right keeping your arm extended. There will be a point where > the tip of your finger will either disappear or have a hole > in it. The hole looks like the backround. The brain actually > fills this little bit of the image in for you... > > K. > > PS: So I've seen the material on Faile and I still > don't understand. Please give an example. > > Argh, *snicker*.... Well it's really quite simple. Under the proper lighting conditons, it appears that you can see objects through normally opaque materials. Faile first noticed it using a screwdriver and his arm. He could see part of the screwdriver through his arm. Now, I am not 100% satisfied this is not a optical illusion. But from photos I have gotten, I've cropped out what would be triggers for my brain, and yes, the contours of objects behind another opaque object can still be seen. Hopefully, and I'm still fiddling with the parameters, I will get it good enough to make it possible to take photos and then analyze them. Right now, the lighting conditions are probably a tad low. I've ordered some high intensity blue-green LEDs so I can replicate the conditions under which he first saw the effect. What makes me think it's not a optical illusion is that in the case of bent rods, etc, My mind doesn't draw a straight line if I hide the bent part under my arm. It's still bent looking. ------------------------ \ < ARM over bent rod, faint image of bend is appearent. \ | ------------------------ | | If it was a mental closure effect, I should see a straight shadowy line through my arm, but I don't. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 21:31:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA10270; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:28:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:28:53 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <38F10602.B721BB5B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 17:36:50 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Faile effect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k4gd81.0.NW2.4YLyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keith Nagel wrote: > > Hi. > > Yet another example... > > There's an urban folk piece of spam that speaks > of a jesus face. You stare at the face for a while and when > you look up at another object; by gawd ya see jesus in it. > > Well as you might imagine seeing an afterimage in > the complementary color might be an explanation. > Then the image tracks the original and as you > point out the color under which you see the effect > is critical? > > I was always a big fan of those perceptual distortion > educational shorts.... > > K. > > There is no complementary color effects, so it's not after image. If you let Usually all you see is a grey hazy image if the object is dark. I've managed to see red through objects though. LEDs are used as the light source, currently I am using ultra bright yellow LEDS, the effect seems less under Orange, and absent under RED Leds. Faile first noticed it under ultrabright blue-green leds, so I have those on order, along with some ultra bright blue and green LEDs. Do not use direct light, strongly lighting the surface of the object seems to destroy the effect. Instead, use several LED lamps to light the room diffusely giving some ambient lighting. It takes about 30 minutes for your eyes to adjust fully... Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 01:28:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA20042; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 01:28:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 01:28:12 -0700 X-pair-Authenticated: 213.6.76.230 Message-ID: <001f01bfa2c6$d849c200$e64c06d5@huhn> Reply-To: "Alexander Renk" From: "Alexander Renk" To: References: <38EF8E27.FF3700F9@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Faile Effect... Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:18:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"ce-SI.0.3v4.R2Pyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Daniel, I would like to see such photos. Do you have some photos or a schematic of the device used in the spy sats? Can you tell me at which power rating you are able to observe a force in the direction of the current flow? Best regards Alexander Renk ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel To: Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2000 9:53 PM Subject: Faile Effect... > Okay, I've been doing some simple experiments to test this out. > > If you are intrested, I can post the first batch of my observations to > this group. > > Even if this is just a optical illusion, it makes for a fancy parlor > trick. :) > > But being able to see a pair of pliers through your fingertips is > rather intresting. > > Hopefully I'll be able to get ahold of some of the photos that sam has > told me about, and I'll post them to the group if you all are intrested. > > > Daniel Joyce > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 02:55:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA29592; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 02:53:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 02:53:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:49:06 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Hoverboard studies X-Sender-Ip: 212.47.64.252 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gDezp1.0.HE7.MIQyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey WTH, If you want hi-tech hoverboard stuff, look up http://www.futurehorizons.net and see their hoverboard prototype....... James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 07:32:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA13615; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:31:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:31:58 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:29:21 -0700 Subject: Gravity Capacitor ? Message-ID: <20000410.072922.-318195.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"m1GPW.0.aK3.TNUyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill & Friends, At risk of sounding like a sucker for a April fools joke, has anyone heard anymore about the gravity capacitor ? If it was just a joke, the originator sure went to a great deal of trouble, like carefully drawn diagrams, etc. Please if anyone actually does the experiment with the tin foil and wax paper, please report your results to this list even of the were negative. If you find it is just a bunch of hooey, you can help others. On the other hand.... There have definitely been some connections made to electric dipoles and gravity in the past. For example the work of Townsend Brown and his gravitors, and consider this quote from a paper by Edward Teller: ( founnd at: http://www.teleport.com/~bfryer/RS_REF15.html ) Edward Teller, "Electromagnetism and Gravitation", Proceeds of the National Academy of Science, Vol 74 No 4, Pages 2664-2666. In this paper Dr Teller suggests some clues about the coupling between electromagnetism and gravitation. In the first part of his paper Teller describes how an electric field due to polarization can be induced in a dielectric material which is subject to angular or linear acceleration, or if subject to a gravitational field. In the second part of the paper Teller describes, using purely dimenensional analysis, how a magnetic field might be produced by a spinning mass. He also comments that the magnitude of this magnetic field might be exceedingly small, and notes that a "numerical" factor could exist which might act to increase the magnitude of the field. (Note: It is speculated by others that alignment of microscopic particles with the macroscopic spin axis of the earth, could result in a large "numerical" factor. Fact is, the earth does have a fairly large measurable magnetic field, about which there are a variety of theories as to the origin.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There is this curious report that seems to take Townsend Browns Gravitor quite seriously: http://www.cufon.org/cufon/elecgrav.htm Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 07:46:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA19745; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:46:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:46:26 -0700 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:37:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT - Slightly OT. Message-ID: <20000410.104343.-426521.2.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,5-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"NKW2E2.0.Qq4.2bUyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Beaty wrote: >...pathological science (self-lies, rather than intentional lies.) Is this the definition of pathological science? I have asked a few times, but never gotten any response (well, I got one from C. Cagle in the form of hate mail after he was unsubscribed, but that doesn't count). -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 09:33:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA19615; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:33:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:33:05 -0700 Message-ID: <004501bfa309$cae80660$0a00a8c0@skot> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:28:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"vx-XP3.0.Oo4.09Wyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A post last week discussing the significance of the slots got me thinking. The slot may not directly do anything, but it exposes the layer above it, which may be the trick. thick di-electric - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ++++++ push from negative +++++++ thick di-electric thin di-electric in between or reverse the polarity Having the solid ring around the outside could contain whatever is the source of the force so it spills into the center. I added the thin and thick to maybe enhance the effect polarize it in one direction ). If it works this way, maybe one polarity should be a solid donut and the other slotted. scottb From: tv@juno.com >Hi Bill & Friends, > >At risk of sounding like a sucker for a April fools joke, has anyone >heard anymore about the >gravity capacitor ? > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 10:17:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA00889; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:16:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:16:45 -0700 Message-ID: <008501bfa30f$f4088820$0a00a8c0@skot> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:12:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"3Ve1Y2.0.oD.ynWyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: And maybe a bunch of narrow slots would work even better. scottb -----Original Message----- From: skot To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? > >A post last week discussing the significance of the slots >got me thinking. The slot may not directly do anything, but >it exposes the layer above it, which may be the trick. > > >thick di-electric > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >++++++ push from negative +++++++ > >thick di-electric > >thin di-electric in between > > >or reverse the polarity > >Having the solid ring around the outside could contain >whatever is the source of the force so it spills into the >center. > >I added the thin and thick to maybe enhance the effect > polarize it in one direction ). > >If it works this way, maybe one polarity should be a solid >donut and the other slotted. > > scottb > > >From: tv@juno.com > > >>Hi Bill & Friends, >> >>At risk of sounding like a sucker for a April fools joke, >has anyone >>heard anymore about the >>gravity capacitor ? >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 10:22:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02864; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:21:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:21:49 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000410132126.00991120@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:22:07 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? In-Reply-To: <20000410.072922.-318195.0.tv@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"U5hX21.0.Ti.isWyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >There is this curious report that seems to take Townsend Browns Gravitor >quite seriously: >http://www.cufon.org/cufon/elecgrav.htm wasn't all this in the electrogravitics systems book that's out? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 11:31:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA25679; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:30:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:30:16 -0700 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "skot" , Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:22:57 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <008501bfa30f$f4088820$0a00a8c0@skot> In-Reply-To: <008501bfa30f$f4088820$0a00a8c0@skot> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00041014420603.10359@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA25590 Resent-Message-ID: <"Zc7k92.0.4H6.ssXyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, skot wrote: > And maybe a bunch of narrow slots would work even better. I'm leaning towards this myself. I tend towards simple explanations. Look at the airplane. Though it took ages to discover, the airfoil is a pretty simple concept; throw it forward, it creates a vacuum and sucks itself into it. What's happening here? Maybe nothing. The theory I wish to test is: - The fingers vibrate due to the electrostatic charge. - This vibration causes minute perturbances in gravity, such that the whole device is being attracted into the field it creates. A test of this theory on working device would be somewhat simple: - Does thrust increase if the sandwich is loosened up a bit? (assuming that all the plates/insulators are compressed to thier maximum). - Does thrust increase when pulsed at resonance? Charlie -- Ten is a Dark-Blue Seven From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 12:18:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08693; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:17:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:17:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:17:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Pathological Skepticism In-Reply-To: <20000410.104343.-426521.2.tgrimes1@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"p9ie_3.0.f72.YZYyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: > Bill Beaty wrote: > >...pathological science (self-lies, rather than intentional lies.) > > Is this the definition of pathological science? I have asked a few > times, but never gotten any response (well, I got one from C. Cagle in > the form of hate mail after he was unsubscribed, but that doesn't count). Irving Langmuir coined the term in a paper years ago. It basically means "fooling yourself." Or in particular, it means "seeing a new phenomenon which isn't really there." Or "talking yourself into believing that your experiment gave positive results when it actually gave negative." Pathological science really exists, and skeptics love to use the term as a label in order to desparage anything they don't like. What skeptics fail to see is the existence of the opposite problem: "Pathological Skepticism". If Pathological Science is seeing things which don't exist, then Pathological Skepticism is blindness to things which *DO* exist. Both are a delusion, and a form of self-lie. Both are a form of bias, of seeing what we want to see, rather than trying to honestly see what is really there. Famous cases of Pathological Science are Blondlot's "N-rays", and the discovery of "Polywater." Famous cases of Pathological Skepticism are scientists' disbelief/desparagement of meteors, the Wright Brothers' aircraft, and lots more, see http://www.amasci.com/weird/skepquot.html#smistak Also take a look at these: The Symptoms of Pathological Skepticism http://www.amasci.com/weird/pathsk2.txt The Rules of the Research Game http://www.amasci.com/weird/freenrg/rules.html New Ideas in Science http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/newidea1.html Pure Horganism! http://www.amasci.com/weird/horgnism.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 14:10:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12721; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:09:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:09:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:09:11 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? In-Reply-To: <20000410.072922.-318195.0.tv@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HR-uI2.0.b63.wBayu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 tv@juno.com wrote: > Hi Bill & Friends, > > At risk of sounding like a sucker for a April fools joke, has anyone > heard anymore about the gravity capacitor ? Not a peep. It's conceivable that "S" is still out of town on whatever job he was working on. If enough weeks go by, I'll post the whole correspondence so everyone can form their own opinions. > If it was just a joke, the originator sure went to a great deal of > trouble, like carefully drawn diagrams, etc. Serious "alt-sci" amateurs often do such things when publishing stuff about their untested theories. Just look at the many websites! I suspect that sometimes people don't want to test their theories themselves, and in order to persuade others to do the work, they're tempted to lie about the results. Other workers don't want to verify somebody's untested theory. However, others might be willing to replicate a claimed success. To attract attention to an untested theory, one dishonest method would be to lie about a success, and then to hope that any attempts at replication would actually succeed, which would then "justify" the dishonesty. If the gravity-capacitor doesn't actually work, it still might not be a hoax. It could be the product of a believer who is convinced that it SHOULD, work if only he could get somebody else to build the thing. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 18:25:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02575; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:25:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:25:11 -0700 Message-ID: <004001bfa353$f8782660$a19910cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: <20000410.072922.-318195.0.tv@juno.com> Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:19:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"PdDR41.0.8e.txdyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Please if anyone actually does the experiment with the tin foil and wax > paper, please report your > results to this list even of the were negative. If you find it is just a > bunch of hooey, you can help others. I have been trying to put one of these together. I have found that using a scroll saw will work to create the pattern, provided you sandwich the many layers of metal between 2 layers of wood. However, it is messy and requires a large degree of precision for the operator. Not being an expert sawyer, I sought a different method (after all, my supply of tin is limited and I don't want to screw up). I made a pattern of razor blades embedded into a piece of artboard to act as a sort of die. By placing the foil on top of this pattern of razor blades, I can pop out a pattern - at least in theory. Unfortunately, I screwed up my design 2-fold: 1) I used hot glue to make the blades stationary, 2) I used different brands of razor blades. Let me just say that I think this method will work (I actually saw a similar method posted on JLN's egroup), but the razor blades should all be the same brand, and be women's kind. The reason is that the women's brand uses only single blades, which are very flexible. Anyway, I'll try this method again using balsa wood. With all the time I am spending making this pattern, I could probably cut it with a pair of scissors :-( Suggestions are always appreciated. By the way, for some great tips on this, check out Steven Dufresne's site www.entrenet.com/~stevend Next, I will conduct some voltage experiments to see the breakdown characteristics of the wax paper. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 20:46:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22455; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:45:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:45:34 -0700 Message-ID: <20000411034458.9606.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [199.120.70.7] From: "timothy richardson" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, nuenergy@cyberportal.net Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:44:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"qJBcL3.0.lU5.S_fyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I really haven't been following the so called gravity capacitor that closely, mainly because it "seems" to me to be something of a hoax. I am not saying that it is, however, I find it difficult to believe that such a complex device (with all the accompaning schematics and so forth) could have been designed by "accident" and therefore, if real, must have been really designed, with an established (even if only by the inventor himself) principle to work from. However, I have yet to see any such premise. Of course, like I said, I haven't really followed it that closely, so probably missed something. All that aside, for those of you who ARE following up on it - it seems there is something of a problem with cutting the plates. Here are some suggestions: Contact a local hardware store and buy (or beg, borrow, etc...) a handy little tool called a "nibbler". This wonderful electric tool is meant for cutting sheet metal and so with remarkable efficiency. Corners, edges, slots, whatever, are very easy. Or you can try to get a used one from your friendly neighborhood furnace man. This and a pair of tin snips (same place you got the nibbler) and you have all you need. I'm not sure about plate width in these designs, but if its too thin to use the nibbler, then here's a trick that might just work - In the past, when building HV caps, I have had moderate success with making my plates in the following manner - take your dielectic, whatever it might be, and cover it with a cardboard mask cut in the shape/size you wish your plate to be. Then SPRAY your plates on, using aluminium roofing material, or any conductive material that fits your specs. This solves several problems, such as residual air pockets, etc... Then allow to dry and add coats to the desired thickness. I am aware that tin is the material being used, so you might have to use your engineering prowess to overcome that. I really have no idea what solvents tin would be soluble in, (just don't use florine!) but there are good reference materials everywhere. Hope this helps, or at least helps get the creative juices flowing! Tim Richardson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 13:47:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19250; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:38:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:38:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:36:00 +0200 Message-Id: <200004112136.XAA26300@ns.f.ubcom.net> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: new mechanical overunity article on the net Resent-Message-ID: <"DUVNn3.0.ci4.2ruyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >To: freenrg-l >From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) > >Hallo ! > >A new theory article by Dieter Bauer > >"The parametric rotator - the Wuerth power booster" > >is on the net at my server at > >http://www.overunity.com/rotator/rotator2.htm > >It can be reached as well over the theory page of the same server at > >http://www.overunity.com/theory.htm > > > >The article describes the mechanic overunity cycle setup found out by Felix Wuerth. >The calculation can reproduce the claim on overunity efficiency and even >gets out the optimized efficiencies measured by F. Wuerth two years ago. > >Sincerely > >Dieter Bauer > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 15:55:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06384; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:54:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:54:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200004112136.XAA26300@ns.f.ubcom.net> References: <200004112136.XAA26300@ns.f.ubcom.net> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:54:41 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: new mechanical overunity article on the net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"7Jg2o2.0.fZ1.-qwyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Recently I visualized (but haven't built) a pendulum setup that has a wheel as a weight at the end of a rigid stick. Allow the pendulum to swing with the wheel 'locked' during the downswing in gravity, then release it to spin freely in its axis during the last part of the swing. The pendulum would end up in the same position at the end whether or not the wheel was locked or not or unlocked during the swing, etc. - right or wrong? This is basically the same thing, isn't it? There must be "free energy" devices based on this idea already. Frankly I don't think it is OU, but a pendulum test is easy to do. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 17:06:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01748; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:05:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:05:58 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <1e.3c3683a.262517c0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:05:20 EDT Subject: Re: new mechanical overunity article on the net To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"V1np_2.0.DR.ctxyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/11/00 4:00:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rick@mail.highsurf.com writes: > Recently I visualized (but haven't built) a pendulum setup that has a > wheel as a weight at the end of a rigid stick. Allow the pendulum to > swing with the wheel 'locked' during the downswing in gravity, then > release it to spin freely in its axis during the last part of the > swing. The pendulum would end up in the same position at the end > whether or not the wheel was locked or not or unlocked during the > swing, etc. - right or wrong? Rick, I don't think so -- it won't rise as high as the elevation from which it was dropped. The wheel, when you unlock it at the bottom, has acquired some angular momentum/energy. If you *don't* unlock it this angular momentum/energy, along with the kinetic energy, will cause the wheel to rise to its original elevation. If you release the wheel you will keep the angular energy of the spinning wheel, but the pendulum won't rise as high. This is basically the same thing, isn't > it? There must be "free energy" devices based on this idea already. > Frankly I don't think it is OU, but a pendulum test is easy to do. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 18:32:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00318; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 18:32:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 18:32:04 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01bfa41e$15360860$c99c10cf@drosigno> Reply-To: "David Rosignoli" From: "David Rosignoli" To: References: <20000411034458.9606.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:26:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"3zvMl3.0.t4.J8zyu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I really haven't been following the so called gravity capacitor that > closely, mainly because it "seems" to me to be something of a hoax. I am > not saying that it is, however, I find it difficult to believe that such a > complex device (with all the accompaning schematics and so forth) could have > been designed by "accident" and therefore, if real, must have been really > designed, with an established (even if only by the inventor himself) > principle to work from. However, I have yet to see any such premise. Of > course, like I said, I haven't really followed it that closely, so probably It is much more definitive to conduct the experiment than to argue incessantly over its veracity. > missed something. All that aside, for those of you who ARE following up on > it - it seems there is something of a problem with cutting the plates. Here > are some suggestions: Contact a local hardware store and buy (or beg, > borrow, etc...) a handy little tool called a "nibbler". This wonderful > electric tool is meant for cutting sheet metal and so with remarkable > efficiency. Corners, edges, slots, whatever, are very easy. Or you can try > to get a used one from your friendly neighborhood furnace man. This and a > pair of tin snips (same place you got the nibbler) and you have all you > need. I'm not sure about plate width in these designs, but if its too thin This might work for sheet metal, but the plates are made of metal foil of only a few (or one) mils thickness - very fragile stuff. I think stamping it out is the best method to start with. > to use the nibbler, then here's a trick that might just work - In the past, > when building HV caps, I have had moderate success with making my plates in > the following manner - take your dielectic, whatever it might be, and cover > it with a cardboard mask cut in the shape/size you wish your plate to be. > Then SPRAY your plates on, using aluminium roofing material, or any > conductive material that fits your specs. This solves several problems, > such as residual air pockets, etc... Then allow to dry and add coats to the > desired thickness. I am aware that tin is the material being used, so you > might have to use your engineering prowess to overcome that. I really have > no idea what solvents tin would be soluble in, (just don't use florine!) but > there are good reference materials everywhere. Hope this helps, or at least > helps get the creative juices flowing! These are good ideas, but I am hesitant to change anything from the original experiment, with out faithfully duplicating it first. Spraying metal, sputtering, electroplating, etching,...These are all possible options later. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 02:36:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA09745; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 02:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 02:35:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1e.3c3683a.262517c0@aol.com> References: <1e.3c3683a.262517c0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:35:49 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: new mechanical overunity article on the net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"EnHnx3.0.6O2.yD4zu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:05 PM -0400 4/11/00, Keasy@aol.com wrote: > I don't think so -- it won't rise as high as the elevation from which it >was dropped. That's my point, along with the pendulum test being easy way to check experimentally the principle of yet another claimed mechanical OU device. Personally I don't believe any such OU device has ever been, or ever will be built. Not with plain old Newtonian mechanics, that is. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 11:14:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26955; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003001bfa4aa$a7519340$96d2989e@dave> From: "David Callaghan" To: References: Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:12:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"x-Fg93.0.2b6.voBzu"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all I have recently seen a paper on the net, purportedly of NASA orirgin, which described using a capacitor variant to affect gravity. I'll post the URL if I can find it again. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 06:09:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02037; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 06:08:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 06:08:42 -0700 X-Sent: 13 Apr 2000 13:08:06 GMT Message-ID: <000801bfa549$9eeb9c60$470e1440@user> From: "Dan Hicks" To: Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:15:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"UFJ_X.0.kV.QRSzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I had read that the invention of the steam engine was considered impossible. The physics of the day had to be re-written because obviously it worked. It will be the same when the fully operational O.U. devices become available. Dan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 06:09:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02026; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 06:08:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 06:08:41 -0700 X-Sent: 13 Apr 2000 13:08:08 GMT Message-ID: <000901bfa549$9fde39c0$470e1440@user> From: "Dan Hicks" To: Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:23:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"q_KAb2.0.UV.PRSzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Remember the blind men who when to try and discribe the reality of the elephant? Each had is own perception of what elephant was. The only thing we are absoutely sure of is our own existance, which is based on consciousness. All science is base on axioms that cannot be proven in a scientific way. They just seem unquestionably true. So the foundation of all observation is faith in what is perceived. Changed consciousness, changed perceptions. Which is what all scientific advances are. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 08:32:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA12902; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:32:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:32:29 -0700 Message-ID: <007a01bfa55d$66da7e40$0a00a8c0@skot> From: "skot" To: Subject: Re: fake discoveries Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:31:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"wHufv3.0.U93.BYUzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A therom in geometry is the same as a law in physics: Can not be proven but appears to be correct every time it's tested. Geometry's name is honest. Calling it a law is not accurate. scottb -----Original Message----- From: Dan Hicks +ADw-Danhawk+AEA-worldspy.net+AD4- To: freenrg-l+AEA-eskimo.com +ADw-freenrg-l+AEA-eskimo.com+AD4- Date: Thursday, April 13, 2000 6:08 AM Subject: Re: fake discoveries +AD4-Remember the blind men who when to try and discribe the reality of the +AD4-elephant? Each had is own perception of what elephant was. +AD4- +AD4-The only thing we are absoutely sure of is our own existance, which is based +AD4-on consciousness. +AD4- +AD4-All science is base on axioms that cannot be proven in a scientific way. +AD4-They just seem unquestionably true. So the foundation of all observation +AD4-is faith in what is perceived. +AD4- +AD4-Changed consciousness, changed perceptions. +AD4- +AD4-Which is what all scientific advances are. +AD4- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 02:53:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA26680; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 02:52:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 02:52:14 -0700 Message-ID: <00f701bfa5f6$df0d6c80$1b109cd1@computer> From: "D.Moore" To: Subject: Fw: NASA develops a drill for the future Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 05:50:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"sa_W32.0.nW6.Efkzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 7:32 PM Subject: NASA develops a drill for the future > MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE > JET PROPULSION LABORATORY > CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY > NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION > PASADENA, CALIF. 91109 TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011 > http://www.jpl.nasa.gov > > Contact: Nancy Lovato, 818-354-0474 > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 12, 2000 > > NASA DEVELOPS A DRILL FOR THE FUTURE > > It's an invention that may eventually end up in the hands of > every craftsman and orthopedic surgeon. > > Scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, > Calif., together with engineers from Cybersonics, Inc., Erie, > Penn., have developed a small, lightweight ultrasonic device that > can drill and core very hard rocks and also has possible medical > applications. > > Potential medical uses include extracting pacemaker leads, > and the drilling necessary during surgical or diagnostic > procedures involving the human skeletal structure. Future space > missions that might use this new technology could include > drilling for samples using lightweight landers with robotic arms, > and small rovers that roam the surface of an asteroid or planet. > > "The drill is an ultrasonic device that offers exciting new > capabilities for space exploration in future NASA missions," said > Dr. Yoseph Bar-Cohen, who leads JPL's Nondestructive Evaluation > and Advanced Actuator Technologies unit. "Besides the immediate > benefits of the technology to NASA, it is paving the way for > other unique ultrasonic mechanisms that are being developed in > our laboratory and elsewhere. Such devices can be made to be > small and lightweight, to consume little power and to exhibit a > high standard of reliability." > > (Images of the drill may be seen at > http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/pictures/tech/drill.html .) > > "This technology can be miniaturized to fit in the palm of a > hand," said Tom Peterson, president of Cybersonics, Inc. > Cybersonics holds a patent for the Ultrasonic/Sonic Drill and > Corer. "There are numerous commercial applications, especially > in the medical field. We are very pleased with the progress in > development and look forward to finding even more useful > applications." > > The drill is driven by piezoelectric actuators, which have > only two moving parts but no gears or motors. Piezoelectrics are > materials that change their shape under the application of an > electrical field. The drill can be adapted easily to operations > in a range of temperatures from extremely cold to very hot. > Unlike conventional rotary drills, the drill can core even the > hardest rocks, such as granite and basalt, without significant > weight on the drilling bit. > > The current demonstration unit weighs roughly 0.7 kilograms > (1.5 pounds), which is sufficient to drill 12-millimeter (half- > inch) holes in granite using less than 10 watts of power. > Comparable rotary drills usually require the application of 20- > to-30 times greater pushing force and more than three times the > power. The drill/coring bit does not require sharpening and its > drilling speed does not decrease with time. There is no drill > chatter, no drill "walk" on start-up, and the drill does not > rotate. The bit can be guided by hand safely during operation. > The drill can core holes in different cross-sections, such as > square, round or hexagon. > > Bar-Cohen led the development team, which includes Drs. > Benjamin Dolgin and Stewart Sherrit of JPL and the staff of > Cybersonics, Inc. The technology was initially developed under a > NASA Small Business Innovation Research Phase I contract that > funded Cybersonics, Inc., and later received funding from the > NASA TeleRobotic Intercenter Working Group. Currently, the > development is funded by the NASA Exploration Program (Mars and > Deep Space), and the Cybersonics effort is funded by a NASA Small > Business Innovation Research Phase II contract. > > Further information about the ultrasonic drill and other > nondestructive evaluation and advanced actuator technologies is > available on the Internet at http://ndeaa.jpl.nasa.gov . > > JPL is managed for NASA by the California Institute of > Technology in Pasadena. > > ##### > 4-12-00 NL > #2000-035 > --------------------------------------------------------------- > You are subscribed to JPL's news mailing list. To unsubscribe, > please send an e-mail to JPLNews@jpl.nasa.gov and in the body > of the message include the following line. > > unsubscribe news > > Please do not reply to this e-mail. > For help, send a message to listmaster@www.jpl.nasa.gov. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 11:56:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA08083; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:55:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:55:26 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bfa642$b155b620$36a0fea9@p2300> From: "jnemcik" To: References: <1e.3c3683a.262517c0@aol.com> Subject: Re: new mechanical overunity article on the net Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 17:27:08 -0700 Organization: lascouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"qw4PW.0.5-1.Tcszu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Rick; you should look at: http://www.rqm.ch/eng/topnews.htm It its not a OU, I do not know what is! Best regards, Josef Nemcik > That's my point, along with the pendulum test being easy way to check > experimentally the principle of yet another claimed mechanical OU > device. Personally I don't believe any such OU device has ever been, > or ever will be built. Not with plain old Newtonian mechanics, that > is. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 15:29:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA14525; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:28:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:28:53 -0700 Message-ID: <20000414222816.76416.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.28.80.82] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor ? Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:28:16 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"sqbXG1.0.sY3.akvzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was sent this today??? I can't say if this has any bearing on gravity but it was interesting... http://www.soteria.com/brown/bios/early.htm Timothy... >Hi all > >I have recently seen a paper on the net, >purportedly of NASA orirgin, which described using >a capacitor variant to affect gravity. > >I'll post the URL if I can find it again. > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 16:31:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00869; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:31:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:31:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000201bfa642$b155b620$36a0fea9@p2300> References: <1e.3c3683a.262517c0@aol.com> <000201bfa642$b155b620$36a0fea9@p2300> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:26:48 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: new mechanical overunity article on the net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"6-xdv1.0.SD.9fwzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Josef - Dead link. But if it's the one I think it is, it's not strictly a mechanical OU device (although it of course has mechanical parts) but rather an electromagnetic one claimed to extract energy form the aether/ZPE/etc. I think there's a chance for a FE device of that form, but zero chance of a simple mechanical extractor using centrifugal force, angular momentum and so forth, like all the unbalanced wheel or water displacement attempts. The mechanical gizmo which started this thread is one of the latter as far as I could tell, and not like the RQM device. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI At 5:27 PM -0700 4/12/00, jnemcik wrote: >Hi, Rick; >you should look at: http://www.rqm.ch/eng/topnews.htm > >It its not a OU, I do not know what is! >Best regards, > >Josef Nemcik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 16:31:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00951; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:31:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:31:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00f701bfa5f6$df0d6c80$1b109cd1@computer> References: <00f701bfa5f6$df0d6c80$1b109cd1@computer> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:31:21 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Fw: NASA develops a drill for the future Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"piuW93.0.mE.Kfwzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wonder if those curiously careless looking cuts made in Andesite (hard volcanic rock) at ancient sites like Tihuanaco might have been produced by a low tech bronze-age version of the acoustic drill. They had sound back then you know, even very high pitched ones. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 17:33:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19152; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:32:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:32:35 -0700 Message-ID: <38F7B7ED.92B71DF3@harti.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:29:33 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: PMsquare archive updated ! confirmations ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MarR82.0.5h4.YYxzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have updated my PMsquare archive with the latest pics and messages at: http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/ Have a look there ! Thanks ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 17:57:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25546; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:56:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:56:45 -0700 Message-ID: <38F7BD97.11BE98BD@harti.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:53:43 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy Subject: [Fwd: PMsquare principle works !] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OiGn12.0.3F6.Dvxzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: PMsquare principle works ! Datum: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 21:33:04 +0200 Von: Stefan Hartmann Firma: Hartmann Multimedia Service An: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" ,JNaudin509@aol.com,"ou-builders@egroups.com" BCC: patrick tremblay ,ldmorgan@digital.net, atg0317 ,atglab , Gabriel Fauner ,Greg Watson ,Newman-L Mailing List Hi All, today I have verified, that the very easy to build PMsquare principle works ! I have build a new coil to generate a permanent magnetic field inside it and used 2 x 4 stacked neodymn magnets to generate a combined field like this one: http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/shlinmot.gif The 2 x 4 magnets went from the left side of the inner coil wall to the right wall with pretty powerful force ! Please also have a look at these schematics to understand the principle : http://www.powercoil.com/forces.html http://www.powercoil.com/forces3.html http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/shlmotan.gif I will try now to build a new motor just with permanent magnets with this principle. I will also put some serious money into it, cause I really believe now that it fully works ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 17:57:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25689; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:57:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:57:15 -0700 Message-ID: <38F7BDB4.BF518C98@harti.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:54:12 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy Subject: [Fwd: PMsquare pics online !] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_A3Lx1.0.CH6.gvxzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: PMsquare pics online ! Datum: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:30:13 +0200 Von: Stefan Hartmann Firma: Hartmann Multimedia Service Hi All, I just uploaded 2 pics of my experiments: http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/test1.jpg http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/test2.jpg Sorry, they are a bit blurred, but the small son of my girlfriend had fun with the digital camera a few days ago and dropped it to the floor, now the optics is a little out of focus and I could not fix it yet... But I guess you get the idea. test1.jpg shows the 2 magnet stacks (2 x4 magnets) in front of the coil. This way I hold them INSIDE the coil with my fingers and then they are propelled parallel to the table inside the coil to direction coil wall. (the coil was winded around a small plastic bottle, brown tape around it) The wire is about 1 mm size diameter and the coil has a DC ohmic resistance of 6 Ohms. It draws about 2 Amps from the 12 Volts battery. test2.jpg shows the magnet stack, when I put it into the coil. I keep it this way,(NOT 90 degrees rotated !!!) just lower into the coil, where the magnetic field is almost constant ! Hope this gives you an idea, how the PMsquare works ! Regards, Stefan. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 17:57:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25723; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:57:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:57:19 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: NASA develops a drill for the future Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 10:56:40 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <00f701bfa5f6$df0d6c80$1b109cd1@computer> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA25657 Resent-Message-ID: <"Vol4I3.0.oH6.jvxzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:31:21 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >I wonder if those curiously careless looking cuts made in Andesite >(hard volcanic rock) at ancient sites like Tihuanaco might have been >produced by a low tech bronze-age version of the acoustic drill. They >had sound back then you know, even very high pitched ones. [snip] This is also one of the theories put forward, as an explanation of the shapes found in stones around the pyramids (including the "coffin" in the great pyramid). The is also the story that J. W. Keely had a mechanical vibration device that powdered quartz, allowing cheap gold recovery from low quality ore. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 17:59:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26639; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:58:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:58:41 -0700 Message-ID: <38F7BE0A.E16CACDA@harti.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:55:38 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy Subject: [Fwd: First PMsquare confirmation in Hardware ! It works !] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ttwDs.0.1W6.0xxzu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: First PMsquare confirmation in Hardware ! It works ! Datum: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:40:53 +0200 Von: Stefan Hartmann Firma: Hartmann Multimedia Service -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: Re: PM^2 test IT WILL WORK Datum: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:54:40 -0300 Von: Juan de la Cruz Barrios An: harti@harti.com Referenzen: <38F661D3.1DC4BF93@harti.com> <38F63E69.814C49DE@sinectis.com.ar> <38F6792F.58235C3@harti.com> Hi!! I did a little and humble test and IT DID WORK! Turn by self motion a turn and 1/2 and stop cause shaft destabilization, wooden ;-( I repeated the test and work every time. What could be a problem is the demagnetization of the magnets. I'll work now to build a metal shaft to test again. Please see my setup. Juan [Image] [Image] [Image] Stefan Hartmann escribió: > Look at the pics in: > http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/test1.jpg > http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/test2.jpg > > I let the 2 x 4 magnets just touch themself ! > So they stick together pretty well ! > I also have about 1 mm distance plastic disc pieces > between the single magnets, so I still get them > pulled off each other, when I need to do this..! > Otherwise they are soooo > strong you can´t pull them out with your fingers ! > > Juan de la Cruz Barrios schrieb: > > > > Hi again! > > > > What is the distance in the points 1and 2 in the diagram? (among > rotor and > > stator magnets > > and among both rotor magnets) > > Are they important? > > > > Regards, Juan > > > > > > > > ------------------N------------------- > > > | | > > > ------------------S------------------- > > > s-------n 1 > > > -->Motion 2 > > > n-------s > > > ------------------N------------------- > > > | | > > > ------------------S------------------- > > > > > > FEMM showed stress tensor forces in the x direction > > > oppositely directed, but the left side was 5x greater > > > than the right side. This much force differential > > > should pack quite a punch with neodymium magnets. > > > Watch out it doesn't accelerate to destruction > > > in a few seconds. Better use a flywheel to slow > > > the acceleration so you can stop it if needed. > > > > > > Dave Squires > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > > > -- > > > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > > > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > > > > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > > > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > > > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Free E-Cards, Screensavers, and Digital Pictures! > > > Corbis.com: > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/3358/2/_/2785/_/955671613/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > Messages archives at : > > > > > > http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to > jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > JLN Labs web site at: http://go.to/jlnlabs > > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 21:03:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08256; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:02:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:02:31 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <7e.38ba8f0.262943ae@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:01:50 EDT Subject: Re: [Fwd: PMsquare principle works !] To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"fDkAd2.0.v02.Nd-zu"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/14/00 5:59:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com writes: > > today I have verified, > that the very easy to build PMsquare > principle works ! > > I have build a new coil to generate a permanent magnetic field > inside it and used 2 x 4 stacked neodymn magnets to generate > a combined field like this one: > > http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/shlinmot.gif I'm sorry I haven't followed all of your work on this idea, but it seems to me that if you in fact get a linear force on the two inside connected permanent magnets in the above .gif you have an overunity device. It would seem to be an easy change to arrange the outside magnets into a cylindrical shape and have continuous rotary motion of the two connected central magnets. Since only permanent magnets are involved, there need not be any power input. But from an Amperian current point of view I would expect the central connected magnets to each try to twist in opposite directions with no linear force. Has anyone set up the experiment in the above .gif and seen a linear force? > > > The 2 x 4 magnets went from the left side of the inner > coil wall to the right wall with pretty powerful force ! > Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 22:39:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25057; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:38:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:38:55 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01bfa69c$f6622780$2ec3f9cc@computer> From: "Garry & Denise Whitman" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: PMsquare principle works !] Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:39:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vme1Q3.0.M76.l10-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all; I just spent the last three hours setting up this experiment and testing it. I used 2 (7.5 inch x .75 inch ring magnets). Using two different sizes of magnets on the rotor and various spacings I could not detect any torque. Hopefully some of you will have better results. Garry -----Original Message----- From: Keasy@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: PMsquare principle works !] >In a message dated 4/14/00 5:59:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com >writes: > >> >> today I have verified, >> that the very easy to build PMsquare >> principle works ! >> >> I have build a new coil to generate a permanent magnetic field >> inside it and used 2 x 4 stacked neodymn magnets to generate >> a combined field like this one: >> >> http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/shlinmot.gif > > > I'm sorry I haven't followed all of your work on this idea, but it seems to >me that if you in fact get a linear force on the two inside connected >permanent magnets in the above .gif you have an overunity device. It would >seem to be an easy change to arrange the outside magnets into a cylindrical >shape and have continuous rotary motion of the two connected central magnets. > Since only permanent magnets are involved, there need not be any power input. > > But from an Amperian current point of view I would expect the central >connected magnets to each try to twist in opposite directions with no linear >force. Has anyone set up the experiment in the above .gif and seen a linear >force? > >> >> >> The 2 x 4 magnets went from the left side of the inner >> coil wall to the right wall with pretty powerful force ! >> > > Ken > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 23:17:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA30364; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:16:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:16:40 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <8e.3bc7606.2629631e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 02:15:58 EDT Subject: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_8e.3bc7606.2629631e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kxmyw2.0.LQ7.6b0-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_8e.3bc7606.2629631e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stefan and all, I tested your idea in a gate configuration using NIB magnets and there was a very strong pull going in, but no back drag coming out of the gate! Not any at all! I did the test over and over for hours. I got friends to do it. All results were the same, strong pull going in, no pulling back force or back drag going out! The only other thing I noticed during the tests was that the slider magnets wanted to separate at one end of the pair and I had to hold them together with a lot of force. Am I doing something wrong here! Are these results correct! Please, someone do this test and verify my results! The setup is super simple and cheap except for the rare earth magnets. Please see attached drawing of setup. I don't want to put magnets on scanner, will get photo taken and scan if requested. Thanks, Butch LaFonte --part1_8e.3bc7606.2629631e_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="gate.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="gate.gif" R0lGODlh/wEnAfcAAAAAAAAA//8AAP////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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Ia74f6CYiqv4FK5IioFYiFvIhbyIirVoVxGRgYxoJ72Iib9oi56YIMOYip8IiMdoTrr4J4zS fmaoUoP4f9H4jNq4jdzYjd74jeAYjuI4juRYjuZ4juiYjuq4juzYju74jvB4hwEBAAA7 --part1_8e.3bc7606.2629631e_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 01:58:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16690; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:58:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:58:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8e.3bc7606.2629631e@aol.com> References: <8e.3bc7606.2629631e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:58:05 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"wGblo3.0.h44.cy2-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch - >..."there was a very strong pull going in, > but no back drag coming out"... This is what one would feel with a very asymmetrical field. You'd notice it strong on one side and weak on the other. But when all summed up - equal. My feeling is that putting the smaller magnets on a rotor will prove this out. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 11:11:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32605; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:11:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:11:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000415111324.212f0e44@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:13:24 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [Fwd: PMsquare principle works !] In-Reply-To: <7e.38ba8f0.262943ae@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sokDd3.0.Lz7.q2B-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 12:01 AM 04/15/00 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/14/00 5:59:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com >writes: >> today I have verified, >> that the very easy to build PMsquare >> principle works ! >> >> I have build a new coil to generate a permanent magnetic field >> inside it and used 2 x 4 stacked neodymn magnets to generate >> a combined field like this one: >> >> http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/shlinmot.gif > > > I'm sorry I haven't followed all of your work on this idea, but it seems to >me that if you in fact get a linear force on the two inside connected >permanent magnets in the above .gif you have an overunity device. A current carrying wire would see a force. The question is can an array of PM's act the same? > But from an Amperian current point of view I would expect the central >connected magnets to each try to twist in opposite directions with no linear >force. Has anyone set up the experiment in the above .gif and seen a linear >force? > I mounted 2 magnets rigidly together as Stefan described and probed its behavior when hung by a thread inside the bore of a electromagnet with a vertical axis. I do not see the force Stefan described. What is curious is a torque to rotate the magnet assembly to point radially inside the bore. If the electromagnet current is reversed, the rotation is 180 degrees (pointing radially out if the first case is radially in). In both cases there is a small linear force outwards, where the electromagnet's field is stronger. At the center of the bore, radially, the torque is a null/any direction, as is the force. It does not change in the upper or lower portion of the bore where the gradient of the axial (vertical) field changes. I have tried small tilts of the magnet assembly, to see if this torque is reversed, due to the tilt, but so far it has also not changed the direction. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 11:53:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09003; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:53:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:53:05 -0700 Message-ID: <38F8B9D8.421E54CE@harti.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 20:50:00 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "ddameron@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: [Fwd: PMsquare principle works !] References: <3.0.6.16.20000415111324.212f0e44@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VODx02.0.WC2.HgB-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron schrieb: > > Hi Ken and all, > At 12:01 AM 04/15/00 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 4/14/00 5:59:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com > >writes: > > >> today I have verified, > >> that the very easy to build PMsquare > >> principle works ! > >> > >> I have build a new coil to generate a permanent magnetic field > >> inside it and used 2 x 4 stacked neodymn magnets to generate > >> a combined field like this one: > >> > >> http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare/shlinmot.gif > > > > > > I'm sorry I haven't followed all of your work on this idea, but it seems > to > >me that if you in fact get a linear force on the two inside connected > >permanent magnets in the above .gif you have an overunity device. > > A current carrying wire would see a force. The question is can an array of > PM's act the same? > > > But from an Amperian current point of view I would expect the central > >connected magnets to each try to twist in opposite directions with no linear > >force. Has anyone set up the experiment in the above .gif and seen a > linear > >force? > > > I mounted 2 magnets rigidly together as Stefan described and probed its > behavior when hung by a thread inside the bore of a electromagnet with a > vertical axis. I do not see the force Stefan described. What is curious is > a torque to rotate the magnet assembly to point radially inside the bore. > If the electromagnet current is reversed, the rotation is 180 degrees > (pointing radially out if the first case is radially in). In both cases > there is a small linear force outwards, where the electromagnet's field is > stronger. At the center of the bore, radially, the torque is a null/any > direction, as is the force. It does not change in the upper or lower > portion of the bore where the gradient of the axial (vertical) field > changes. I have tried small tilts of the magnet assembly, to see if this > torque is reversed, due to the tilt, but so far it has also not changed the > direction. > -Dave Dave, how did you hang the 2 magnets ? What direction ? You have to hang them so, that ONE is up over the other. Not both parallel to your table ! I hope you have it not 90 degrees wrong, cause the you will not see any force. O O O O O NS O O SN O O O O O <-coil ============== <-table It should look this way if you look from the side view. Is this right ? No force this way ?? Can you send a picture of your setup please ? -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 11:59:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10512; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:59:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:59:32 -0700 Message-ID: <38F8BA30.E35D08F5@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:51:28 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! References: <8e.3bc7606.2629631e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NAFR92.0.9a2.JmB-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, The experiment seems be incomplete. What the force or work required to put the magnet inside, to their initial position. If there is an inequality between in and out works you have OU. But if you wanna an conservative answer, is: The region inside the U h ave more potential than the outside. Not so common, but not hard to figure out. Regards, hamdi ucar HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Stefan and all, > I tested your idea in a gate configuration using NIB magnets and there was a > very strong pull going in, but no back drag coming out of the gate! Not any > at all! I did the test over and over for hours. I got friends to do it. All > results were the same, strong pull going in, no pulling back force or back > drag going out! The only other thing I noticed during the tests was that the > slider magnets wanted to separate at one end of the pair and I had to hold > them together with a lot of force. Am I doing something wrong here! Are these > results correct! Please, someone do this test and verify my results! > The setup is super simple and cheap except for the rare earth magnets. Please > see attached drawing of setup. I don't want to put magnets on scanner, will > get photo taken and scan if requested. > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 12:05:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12206; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:05:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:05:13 -0700 Message-ID: <38F8BCB0.6068F1BA@harti.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:02:08 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , "ddameron@earthlink.net" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: Re:PMsquare with plastic spacers X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <3.0.6.16.20000415111324.212f0e44@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P1Rt1.0.Z-2.erB-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave, please also try it this way, use at least in total 4 magnets with some plastic spacers (p) between them and the me know if you can also get a force like I got: O O O O O NSpNS O O SNpSN O O O O O <-coil ============== <-table It should look this way if you look from the side view. Of cource the plastic spacers should just be only a few mm. Do you use Neodymn magnets ? The force is not so big , although I used 2 x 4 neodymn magnets and also 2 amps and about 500 to 1000 Windings ! What is your inner diameter of your coil ? How tall is it ? Do you have a Teslameter ? Can you see how many Tesla flux desity you have inside the coil and if it gets less in the center ? Let me know, if you will see a force ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 13:28:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27946; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:28:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:28:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:28:02 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: grav cap construction Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2TRsW3.0.Zq6.L3D-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: see below ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:04:21 -0700 From: Steven Dufresne To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Comments from billb amform --- url --- http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/elecrckt/elecrckt.htm --- comments --- Hi Bill, I tried building the Electric Rocket device a few years ago but not having the full plans or any tin foil (I used aluminum foil) I was not successful. However, I did have a useful construction technique for cutting the plates. I've posted it to the following webpage: http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/elecrckt/elecrckt.htm I'd like to suggest that you make a link to it from your webpage: http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html so that others can benefit from the technique. Cheers, Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 14:09:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA03568; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:09:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:09:07 -0700 Message-ID: <38F8D9BB.ACB4EFD3@harti.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 23:06:03 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: new test report from Chris. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yl7Tn1.0.ft.ofD-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.overuniy.com/pmsquare It is negative in this moment, but he says, that his fields are pretty irregular. He will work on this. With his design the disc should rotate and the stacked magnets inside are hold still (stator). -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 14:11:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04196; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:11:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:11:14 -0700 Message-ID: <38F8DA3C.6159C851@harti.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 23:08:12 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: new test report from Chris. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2XQv6.0.T11.ohD-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry typo ! http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare Look for the chris*.* files ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 14:13:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04908; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:13:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:13:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000415140736.11975282@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:07:36 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Stefan Hartmann From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [Fwd: PMsquare principle works !] In-Reply-To: <38F8B9D8.421E54CE@harti.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20000415111324.212f0e44@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HnmiU.0.XC1.WjD-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, At 08:50 PM 04/15/00 +0200, you wrote: >Dave, >how did you hang the 2 magnets ? >What direction ? > >You have to hang them so, that ONE is up over the other. >Not both parallel to your table ! >I hope you have it not 90 degrees wrong, cause the you will not see any >force. It is like this: . >O . O >O . O >O N===S O >0 . 0 >O S===N O >O O >O O <-coil >============== <-table > > >It should look this way if you look from the side view. > >Is this right ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 14:44:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11457; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:44:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:44:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000415144651.210750ee@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:46:51 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re:PMsquare with plastic spacers In-Reply-To: <38F8BCB0.6068F1BA@harti.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20000415111324.212f0e44@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"J5pT01.0.wo2.rAE-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan and all, At 09:02 PM 04/15/00 +0200, you wrote: >Dave, >please also try it this way, >use at least in total 4 magnets with >some plastic spacers (p) between them >and the me know if you can also >get a force like I got: >O O >O O >O NSpNS O >O SNpSN O >O O >O O <-coil >============== <-table > > Sorry please explain this: NS SN Do you mean N=S Spacer here> S=N (magnets 90 deg. to coil field), or rotated 90 deg. for this new test. >It should look this way if you look from the side view. > >Of cource the plastic spacers should just be only a few mm. >Do you use Neodymn magnets ? Yes, about 1 cm diameter, 6 together to form a rod about 2cm long. > >The force is not so big , although I used >2 x 4 neodymn magnets and also 2 amps >and about 500 to 1000 Windings ! > >What is your inner diameter of your coil ? >How tall is it ? The inner diameter = 13.5cm, the height = 18 cm. There are about 200 turns 2 mm diameter wire, and I am using about 6 Amperes. >Do you have a Teslameter ? >Can you see how many Tesla flux desity you have inside the coil >and if it gets less in the center ? I tested it with AC and a pickup coil. The field is about 20% less at the center than radially outward. > I now see that the torque I observe is the same as the magnet assembly near a single current carrying wire. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 15:28:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30476; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:28:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:28:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:28:16 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"S3dtN1.0.5S7.8qE-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch - >..."there was a very strong pull going in, > but no back drag coming out"... This is what one would feel with a very asymmetrical field. You'd notice it strong on one side and weak on the other. But when all summed up - equal. My feeling is that putting the smaller magnets on a rotor will prove this out. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 15:52:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03150; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:52:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:52:24 -0700 Message-ID: <38F8F1E5.6F329730@harti.com> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 00:49:09 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Dameron , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: Magnets with spacing work better ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <3.0.6.16.20000415111324.212f0e44@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20000415140736.11975282@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20000415145927.26cf5f9e@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Sr6rs2.0.7n.eAF-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and all, I just made another test with my coil ! yes, indeed, with a spacer of about 1 cm between the stacks it works much more forcefull ! The neodymn magnet stack (2 x 4 pieces, NS=single magnet) almost flies from one part of the wall to the other inside the coil: O O O O O NSpNSpNSpNS motion O O =========== --> O O SNpSNpSNpSN to wall O O O O O <-coil ========================= <-table p= plastic spacer disc between magnets, about 2 mm thickness. This is again a side view. So this configuration works best ! I also tried it with fridge ceramics magnets and it also works , but of course with much less force ! The neodymms almost have a 10 time bigger force ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 16:36:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA10202; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:36:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:36:23 -0700 Message-ID: <38F8FC3E.8106057B@harti.com> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:33:18 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List , Greg Watson Subject: Greg =?iso-8859-1?Q?Watson=B4s?= refund is here ! :)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jIFJ31.0.GV2.tpF-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just in from my online bank account; 14.04 14.04.2000 AVS ZAV E6000009900327818 AUFTRAG DEM 240,00 KURS 0,000000 GEB 12,50 GEGWT EUR 122,71 MRS SM WATSON 8 BRABHAM GRO VE ABERFOYLE PARK 5159 TXT 65 110,21 EUR 215,55 DM Thanks a lot Greg ! I guess you can now tell your story in the whole part ! :) -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 17:46:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA24114; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 17:45:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 17:45:43 -0700 Message-ID: <38F90C7C.D2714B03@harti.com> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 02:42:36 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Simular motor to PMsquare here. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YZ8U_1.0.gu5.tqG-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.futurescience.net/G-Machine.html -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 19:20:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07432; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:20:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:20:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000415192144.239709f2@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:21:44 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Magnets with spacing work better ! Cc: Stefan Hartmann In-Reply-To: <38F8F1E5.6F329730@harti.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20000415111324.212f0e44@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20000415140736.11975282@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.20000415145927.26cf5f9e@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"I_JYW3.0.zp1.YDI-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan and all, At 12:49 AM 04/16/00 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Dave and all, >I just made another test with my coil ! > >yes, indeed, >with a spacer of about 1 cm between the stacks >it works much more forcefull ! >O O >O O >O NSpNSpNSpNS motion O >O =========== --> O >O SNpSNpSNpSN to wall O >O O >O O <-coil >========================= <-table > >p= plastic spacer disc between magnets, >about 2 mm thickness. > I think this is similar to what I see, except that my magnets are free to rotate so the N end can move to where the S end was. = = S N I think what you are seeing is the right end being attracted to the coil, whatever direction. If you place the N end next to the coil, left or right or any position, it will be repelled = and S the S end will be attracted, (That end will face out.) = N Of course if you switch the direction to your coil current, the situation will be the opposite. I have a reversing relay to do this. >I also tried it with fridge ceramics magnets >and it also works , but of course with much less force ! > >The neodymms almost have a 10 time bigger force ! >-- > >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 11:25:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07873; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:23:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:23:52 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <46.412f554.262b5f10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:23:12 EDT Subject: New test results,Gate (Butch) To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_46.412f554.262b5f10_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Resent-Message-ID: <"R0QFc.0.ww1.tKW-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_46.412f554.262b5f10_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stefan and all, I ran more tests thru the night and found some very interesting things. I put the slider magnets on a smooth surface and moved them about 1/10 inch at a time. I followed the forces at work thru this sequence. There is a slight repulsion at point 1 as shown in attached drawing. If you spread apart the magnets as shown in drawing at point one, this repulsion can be made to go neutral or to an attraction force. At point 2 the magnets can go back to parallel and they will be pulled in. At point 3 there is a slight drag, but if the magnets are spread apart as shown in the drawing, the pull can be made neutral or into a repulsion force. The trick now is, can the slider magnets be made to change to these positions and back without an energy loss? Comments please, Butch LaFonte --part1_46.412f554.262b5f10_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="gate2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="gate2.gif" R0lGODlh7AEcAfcAAAAAAAAA//8AAP////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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IT WORKS! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Resent-Message-ID: <"XZc8G2.0.BO2.WTW-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/15/00 5:29:55 PM Central Daylight Time, rick@mail.highsurf.com writes: > This is what one would feel with a very asymmetrical field. You'd notice it > strong on one side and weak on the other. But when all summed up - equal. My > feeling is that putting the smaller magnets on a rotor will prove this out. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Rick, you were correct, but see what you think of todays test results I posted. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 11:39:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA11951; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:39:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:39:09 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <30.3d58820.262b62aa@aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:38:34 EDT Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Resent-Message-ID: <"NnT2t3.0.ew2.DZW-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/15/00 2:02:12 PM Central Daylight Time, hamdix@verisoft.com.tr writes: > The region inside the U have more potential than the outside. Not so common, > but not hard to figure out. > > Regards, > hamdi ucar Hamdi, I got the same results starting in the "U" and starting outside the "U" . I could be wrong, but those are the results I got. The effect may be there, just to small for me to detect. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 14:01:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA07453; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:00:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:00:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <46.412f554.262b5f10@aol.com> References: <46.412f554.262b5f10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:00:38 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: New test results,Gate (Butch) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"CRgnd2.0.Hq1.7eY-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch - In your new diagram with the tilted magnets, those magnets look like they could be on the rim of two wheels which almost touch there between the poles of the larger magnets. By having small magnets on the rim of two disks synchronized to move together, you could make those magnets conform to the pattern of movement suggested in your diagram. See what I mean? The upper magnets of the pairs are on one disk, and the lower magnets on the other. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 14:19:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA10174; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:18:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:18:40 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:18:02 EDT Subject: Great idea Rick! Gate (Butch) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Resent-Message-ID: <"2IJrb3.0.sU2.luY-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/16/00 4:02:51 PM Central Daylight Time, rick@mail.highsurf.com writes: > In your new diagram with the tilted magnets, those magnets look like > they could be on the rim of two wheels which almost touch there > between the poles of the larger magnets. By having small magnets on > the rim of two disks synchronized to move together, you could make > those magnets conform to the pattern of movement suggested in your > diagram. See what I mean? The upper magnets of the pairs are on one > disk, and the lower magnets on the other. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Rick, You are a very smart guy! I will try this as soon as possible. Maybe others on list will give it a try also. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 20:14:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA15100; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:13:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:13:57 -0700 X-Sender: harti@mail.harti.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_955973593==_" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: jlnlabs@egroups.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: SBMOT Steel Ball Magnetic Overunity Toy ! Cc: ou-builders@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com X-Attachments: D:\SBMOT01.GIF; Message-Id: Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 05:13:41 +0200 Resent-Message-ID: <"OYRrd3.0.rh3.q5e-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_955973593==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All, this is a drawing I just made now, after Helmut Goebkes told me recnetly on the phone about. This should really work ! The only problem I see is, how long the magnets last, cause every time the steel balls kick at them and this probably demagnities them a bit during the kick !? Try it out ! Helmut told me this really works. I have not yet tested it , but it sounds pretty good ! Let me know your results ! Thanks ! 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20:40:54 -0700 X-Originating-IP: 213.6.7.172 X-URL: http://www.mail2web.com/ Subject: Re: Pmsquare test successful... Sender: "harti@harti.com" From: "harti@harti.com" Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:40:02 -0400 To: "lardon@alltel.net" CC: "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "newman-l@emachine.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" Reply-To: harti@harti.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: JMail 3.7.0 by Dimac (www.dimac.net) Message-Id: <200004162340782.SM00246@bajor.softcomca.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA24558 Resent-Message-ID: <"QuUeo.0.506.5Ve-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Larry, thanks a lot for this interesting confirmation ! Please keep us updated of your progress ! Thanks a lot again ! Regards, Stefan. Original Message: ----------------- From: Larry Carpenter lardon@alltel.net Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 19:10:34 -0700 Subject: Pmsquare test Stephan, I have successfully tried your pmsquare theory. I taped multiple neodymium magnets onto two stakes(did not use iron backing) to make a long magnet. Then the slider was set up with 4 neodymium magnets with old ceramic magnets to fill in between each set of two neodymium magnets. The slider also had a 7 inch stake attached for stability and control. The slider magnets and stake weighs 95 grams. When the slider is pushed thru the entry point it pulls itself all the way to the back edge of the long magnet. Plan to try circular arrangement after obtaining additional parts. Thanks for the great theory. Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 00:11:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA01616; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:11:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:11:27 -0700 Message-Id: <200004170711.AA00767@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> From: Motoe Suzuki Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:11:31 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Pmsquare test successful?? In-Reply-To: <200004162340782.SM00246@bajor.softcomca.com> References: <200004162340782.SM00246@bajor.softcomca.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"DkUAx.0.9P.Vah-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mr.Hartmann and Larry, Your "PMSQUARE" theory does not work. If you try a circular arrangement for the two long magnets, i.e., if you make circular long magnets giving a circumferentially UNIFORM magnetic field and try to let the slider move or rotate around the center of the circular magnets, the slider will neither move nor rotate even a tiny distance. Larry's observation: "When the slider is pushed thru the entry point it pulls itself all the way to the back edge of the long magnet" is caused by NON-uniform magnetic field between the RECtangular long magnets. Several years ago, I had a similar idea and tried in vain. I have noticed that such unsuccessful result can be predicted by conventional magnetics theory. Suzuki Motoe ///////// From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 00:57:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA08677; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:56:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:56:02 -0700 Message-ID: <20000417075529.48655.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.19] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SBMOT Steel Ball Magnetic Overunity Toy ! Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:55:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"BV1D_1.0.U72.HEi-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hay Stefan, I just happen to be in the position of a bridge that you might be interested in buying??? It's a fantastic once in a life time offer... >From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) >Hi All, > >this is a drawing I just made now, after Helmut Goebkes >told me recnetly on the phone about. >This should really work ! > >The only problem I see is, how long the magnets last, >cause every time the steel balls kick at them and >this probably demagnities them a bit during the kick !? > >Try it out ! Helmut told me this really works. >I have not yet tested it , but it sounds pretty good ! > >Let me know your results ! > >Thanks ! > >Best regards, Stefan. ><< SBMOT01.GIF >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 07:03:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA04159; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:02:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:02:38 -0700 X-Originating-IP: 213.6.4.106 X-URL: http://www.mail2web.com/ Subject: Re: Pmsquare test successful?? Sender: "harti@harti.com" From: "harti@harti.com" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:02:33 -0400 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" CC: "motoe@popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "newman-l@emachine.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" Reply-To: harti@harti.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: JMail 3.7.0 by Dimac (www.dimac.net) Message-Id: <200004171002959.SM00205@charon.mail2web.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA04118 Resent-Message-ID: <"-nxrX.0.q01.zbn-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Motoe, I guess you are wrong ! Look at the simulations GIF pictures ! They show a big force in a constant magnetic stator field ! It does not matter, if the stator field is a circular closed or open at the end !(as long as there is a constant field between the stator arrangement !) Also you don´t have to push anything in, if you build it in a big circle track ! If you just use ONE runner stack then also in a big circle there will be locally a BIG force to propell the runner stack ! So the runner stack will run around the big circle, cause locally always there is a force to propell it (look at the "ANGLE" structure: in the simuluation pics it looks like the field in front and backside of the runner stack looks like an "ANGLE", simular to the "Blue Hole" in the SMOT design !, colors from quickfield) If one uses 2 runner stacks combined, then it probably depends, how far they are away and if then the prolling force cancels or adds up. My next step is to simulate it with the programm FEMM in a big circle track (maybe 1 meter diameter) and see if multiple runner stacks mounted onto a rotor will add up the force or cancel ! With these designs you can´t build it small, cause then the magnetic forces might influence each other or cancel ! Don´t use your Japanese tradition to build all small and tiny ! Use bigger designs ! :) Big Grin ! :) Anyway, thanks for your message ! Regards, Stefan. Original Message: ----------------- From: Motoe Suzuki motoe@popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:11:31 +0900 Subject: Pmsquare test successful?? Hi Mr.Hartmann and Larry, Your "PMSQUARE" theory does not work. If you try a circular arrangement for the two long magnets, i.e., if you make circular long magnets giving a circumferentially UNIFORM magnetic field and try to let the slider move or rotate around the center of the circular magnets, the slider will neither move nor rotate even a tiny distance. Larry's observation: "When the slider is pushed thru the entry point it pulls itself all the way to the back edge of the long magnet" is caused by NON-uniform magnetic field between the RECtangular long magnets. Several years ago, I had a similar idea and tried in vain. I have noticed that such unsuccessful result can be predicted by conventional magnetics theory. Suzuki Motoe ///////// ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 07:04:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA04658; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:03:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:03:57 -0700 X-Originating-IP: 213.6.4.106 X-URL: http://www.mail2web.com/ Subject: Re: Re: SBMOT Steel Ball Magnetic Overunity Toy ! Sender: "harti@harti.com" From: "harti@harti.com" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:03:51 -0400 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Reply-To: harti@harti.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: JMail 3.7.0 by Dimac (www.dimac.net) Message-Id: <200004171003711.SM00205@charon.mail2web.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA04627 Resent-Message-ID: <"JQHJH2.0.f81.Cdn-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ??? Should this be a joke ??? I don´t understand it... Regards, Stefan. Original Message: ----------------- From: Timothy Flytch flytch@hotmail.com Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:55:29 PDT Subject: Re: SBMOT Steel Ball Magnetic Overunity Toy ! Hay Stefan, I just happen to be in the position of a bridge that you might be interested in buying??? It's a fantastic once in a life time offer... >From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) >Hi All, > >this is a drawing I just made now, after Helmut Goebkes >told me recnetly on the phone about. >This should really work ! > >The only problem I see is, how long the magnets last, >cause every time the steel balls kick at them and >this probably demagnities them a bit during the kick !? > >Try it out ! Helmut told me this really works. >I have not yet tested it , but it sounds pretty good ! > >Let me know your results ! > >Thanks ! > >Best regards, Stefan. ><< SBMOT01.GIF >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 07:15:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA08786; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:14:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:14:46 -0700 X-Originating-IP: 213.6.4.106 X-URL: http://www.mail2web.com/ Subject: Re: [Fwd: [jlnlabs] SBMOT Steel Ball Magnetic Overunity Toy !] Sender: "harti@harti.com" From: "harti@harti.com" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:14:43 -0400 To: "ussc@technologist.com" CC: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "newman-l@emachine.com" Reply-To: harti@harti.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: JMail 3.7.0 by Dimac (www.dimac.net) Message-Id: <200004171014148.SM00205@charon.mail2web.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA08763 Resent-Message-ID: <"jYrtm3.0.B92.Mnn-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It is the clicker ball toy effect ! Do you know this toy with about 4 or 5 balls hanging all on threads and touching themself ? If you lift one ball at the left side, the others in the middle will stay still and just the last one at the right will fly away ! Kinetic energy transfer through hard masses ! This is the same concept from SBMOT ! Helmut Goebkes told me, he has seen it working, when I remember correctly he told me this toy was shown also in TV or he has seen it from an inventor or something like this... I quite don´t remember ! Original Message: ----------------- From: Brian Snyder ussc@technologist.com Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:25:42 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: [jlnlabs] SBMOT Steel Ball Magnetic Overunity Toy !] ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 11:18:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03867; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:17:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:17:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200004170711.AA00767@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> References: <200004162340782.SM00246@bajor.softcomca.com> <200004170711.AA00767@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:17:13 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Pmsquare test successful?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"wXVsM1.0.Ky.3Lr-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Motoe - > Your "PMSQUARE" theory does not work. I agree. I think it's just assymetrical fields showing up as a big force on one side and a small one on the other near the "gate" - but summed all the way around, they will be found to come out balanced, and no rotor will achieve any net acceleration moving through the entire field. But I'd be glad to be proven wrong by *experiment* and not list argument or potentially flawed field simulation. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 13:43:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30913; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:42:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:42:42 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01bfa8ad$3b3375a0$36a0fea9@p2300> From: "jnemcik" To: References: <1e.3c3683a.262517c0@aol.com><000201bfa642$b155b620$36a0fea9@p2300> Subject: Re: new mechanical overunity article on the net Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:40:54 -0700 Organization: lascouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"kzijs1.0.sY7.1Tt-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Try this http://www.rqm.ch/ sorry for dead link > Josef - > > Dead link. > > But if it's the one I think it is, it's not strictly a mechanical OU > device (although it of course has mechanical parts) but rather an > electromagnetic one claimed to extract energy form the > aether/ZPE/etc. I think there's a chance for a FE device of that > form, but zero chance of a simple mechanical extractor using > centrifugal force, angular momentum and so forth, like all the > unbalanced wheel or water displacement attempts. The mechanical gizmo > which started this thread is one of the latter as far as I could > tell, and not like the RQM device. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > At 5:27 PM -0700 4/12/00, jnemcik wrote: > > >Hi, Rick; > >you should look at: http://www.rqm.ch/eng/topnews.htm > > > >It its not a OU, I do not know what is! > >Best regards, > > > >Josef Nemcik > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 16:37:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA26651; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:35:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:35:36 -0700 Message-Id: <200004172335.AA00768@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> From: Motoe Suzuki Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:35:37 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: PNSQUARE Test??? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"AgiwG3.0.2W6.7_v-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephan, Rick, and All >Don't use your Japanese tradition to build all small and tiny ! >Use bigger designs ! :) >Big Grin ! :) How do you know that I built a "small and tiny design"? An early apprehension will be harmful for you. >But I'd be glad to be proven wrong by *experiment* and >not list argument or potentially flawed field simulation. Yes, Rick. I agree. I built my experimental setup with a donut-shaped circular magnets which were primarily made for a big speaker. The outer diameter of the donut magnet was around 28 cm, inner diameter around 18cm, and thickness 2cm. Significantly big and strong one! I performed my experiments and could not gain any acceleration of the rotor magnet. I was convinced that my original idea was wrong. Stephan, please listen to the words of the experienced before having a Big Grin. ///////// From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 17:30:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA18999; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:29:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:29:21 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <6a.1f3539e.262d0637@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:28:39 EDT Subject: Need to take serious look at this! To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_6a.1f3539e.262d0637_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Resent-Message-ID: <"bnkfj1.0.me4.Wnw-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_6a.1f3539e.262d0637_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I think we need to take a serious look at the idea Rick came up with on the gate testing I did. I found the magnets pull in, then are pulled thru, and then repelled out from between the two large magnets as shown in attached drawing. Rick came up with the two wheel idea after I found the tilt idea thru testing. This is a gate application of Stefan's PM motor. Can anyone out there make QuickFind simulation or force vector drawings of this movement thru the two magnets as shown in the drawing? We may be over looking a real overunity device here. I have moved these magnets thru this sequence by hand and the pull in, pull thru, repel out is there and smooth. 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Sender: "harti@harti.com" From: "harti@harti.com" Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 20:35:37 -0400 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Reply-To: harti@harti.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: JMail 3.7.0 by Dimac (www.dimac.net) Message-Id: <200004172035150.SM00255@charon.mail2web.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA21161 Resent-Message-ID: <"bmF2B3.0.wA5.Vtw-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Moto, sorry I did not want to ridicule the Japanese tradition. Were you donut ring magnets also magnetized the right way ? Normally speaker magnets are magnetized into the radial direction and not the way needed for PM^2 ! Let me know. Maybe there is a differential force cancellation if just straight runner magnets are used and not "banana" shaped like runner magnets inside a circle track. I will do lots of simulations first before building something bigger sized when I have more time to see what is happening in these cases. Regards, STefan. Original Message: ----------------- From: Motoe Suzuki motoe@popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:35:37 +0900 Subject: PNSQUARE Test??? Hi Stephan, Rick, and All >Don't use your Japanese tradition to build all small and tiny ! >Use bigger designs ! :) >Big Grin ! :) How do you know that I built a "small and tiny design"? An early apprehension will be harmful for you. >But I'd be glad to be proven wrong by *experiment* and >not list argument or potentially flawed field simulation. Yes, Rick. I agree. I built my experimental setup with a donut-shaped circular magnets which were primarily made for a big speaker. The outer diameter of the donut magnet was around 28 cm, inner diameter around 18cm, and thickness 2cm. Significantly big and strong one! I performed my experiments and could not gain any acceleration of the rotor magnet. I was convinced that my original idea was wrong. Stephan, please listen to the words of the experienced before having a Big Grin. ///////// ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 18:37:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04119; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:36:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:36:33 -0700 Message-Id: <200004180136.AA00769@133.popsvr.tokai.jaeri.go.jp> From: Motoe Suzuki Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:36:36 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: PNSQUARE Test??? In-Reply-To: <200004172035150.SM00255@charon.mail2web.com> References: <200004172035150.SM00255@charon.mail2web.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail32 Version 1.10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Resent-Message-ID: <"DQeAe3.0.A01.Wmx-u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephan, >Were your donut ring magnets also magnetized the right way ? >Normally speaker magnets are magnetized into the radial >direction and not the way needed for PM^2 ! NO,NO,NO. A speaker magnet is magnetized in its circular axial direction. That is, magnetic flux runs in its thickness direction. I confirmed this by using a Gauss meter. Sorry, that all, at the moment. $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B Regards, Motoe ///////// From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 23:58:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA20362; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:57:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:57:24 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <7a.40c77ea.262d6130@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 02:56:48 EDT Subject: Re: Need to take serious look at this! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com CC: HLafonte@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA20341 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ug08I.0.3-4.JT0_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 18/04/00 02:32:58 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été), HLafonte@aol.com a écrit : > Can anyone out there make QuickFind simulation or force vector drawings of > this movement thru the two magnets as shown in the drawing? We may be over > looking a real overunity device here. I have moved these magnets thru this > sequence by hand and the pull in, pull thru, repel out is there and smooth. > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte Hi Butch and All, Have you see the QField simulations done in 1997 about the Hartman's PM^2 at : http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/shpmm.htm Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 00:29:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA26386; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:29:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:29:15 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 03:28:36 EDT Subject: Reply to Jean-Louis, (Butch) take serious look at this! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_d9.2fb2163.262d68a4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Resent-Message-ID: <"OsWaZ1.0.7S6.Ax0_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_d9.2fb2163.262d68a4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/18/00 1:59:13 AM Central Daylight Time, JNaudin509@aol.com writes: > Hi Butch and All, > > Have you see the QField simulations done in 1997 about the Hartman's PM^2 at > : > Jean-Louis, I would be very interested in seeing the Quickfield of the slider magnets in the angled position as shown in the attached drawing. A smaller or larger radius circle could be used to adjust the attraction and repulsion going in and out. 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IT WORKS! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"7q8rK3.0.Mb.XqC_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hay how do you post a message on this free energy list. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 14:10:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05609; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:09:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:09:54 -0700 Message-ID: <38FCCF18.1D4AA9BE@dabney.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:09:44 -0500 From: "Emmett Hawkins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! References: <20000418210049.8855.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KOAzi2.0.YN1.YyC_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: micah lloyd wrote: > Hay how do you post a message on this free energy list. Just like that. :-) -- Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 15:22:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29201; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:22:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:22:19 -0700 Message-ID: <38FCE038.9D6C5E1D@info2000.net> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:22:48 -0600 From: Ted Reply-To: tsleber@info2000.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! References: <20000418210049.8855.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ojz_V.0.A87.R0E_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: micah, You just did. Ted From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 15:29:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA31910; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:29:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:29:19 -0700 From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:29:07 EDT Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 101 Resent-Message-ID: <"YUU5F.0.Mo7.x6E_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: you just did From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 15:42:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03272; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:42:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:42:05 -0700 Message-ID: <001501bfa988$bc042d60$c9a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: <20000418210049.8855.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:52:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"uQDDI.0.1p.yIE_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You just did. ----- Original Message ----- From: "micah lloyd" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 1:00 PM Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! IT WORKS! > > Hay how do you post a message on this free energy list. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 15:54:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06785; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:53:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:53:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001501bfa988$bc042d60$c9a270d1@markross> References: <20000418210049.8855.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> <001501bfa988$bc042d60$c9a270d1@markross> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:53:10 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"j8R661.0.lf1.hTE_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: *EVERYBODY* wrote: >You just did. I guess we don't have too much to do with ourselves today, do we? ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 16:44:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23567; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:43:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:43:45 -0700 Message-ID: <38FCF26E.A5319CF7@harti.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:40:30 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: audax22@earthlink.net, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: Re: PMsquare tests..... References: <200004171002959.SM00205@charon.mail2web.com> <38FCBCA9.1CA5@earthlink.net> <38FCBF46.6BC52FE6@harti.com> <38FCCA01.6D2B@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0RZ5D.0.8m5.nCF_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Have you seen the simulation GIFs of Jean Louis ? There is definately a force on the runner, also if the ends are very far away and the runner is in the middle of the linear track ! The simulations predict something else , than what you see now in your circular unit! In the linear case there is always a force according to the simulations, cause it just needs a constant field to build up a decreased flux region before the runner and a higher density flux region behind the runner and this difference in flux density (force) propells the runner. (according to the simulations) I quite don´t bite to the proposal, that it really needs the open ends of the track, so that the runner would propell only then ! In a very long linear track, which might be 1 kilometer long it also should work ! Accoring to the simulations it DOES NOT depend on the ends of the track ! Maybe there is also a difference of the magnetic fields generated by permanent magnets and coils, but this would be a new idea which would only be visible on the atomic level structure and I guess this idea is just too weird...and not correct.. Well, in this moment I am pretty busy with other things but when time allows I will try to do more simulations to find out what causes the circular mode to not work ! Regards, Stefan. David Sligar schrieb: > > Stefan -- Looks like you've received Sam's note, so I won't forward it > unless you actually don't have it. > My rotor magnets lie completely inside the ring magnet profiles, with > plenty of room to spare. Smaller, perhaps NdB magnets could be tried, > but I expect the banana shape is not a significant difference. > (Intuition only -- the radial variations in field experienced by the > relatively short rotor magnets I think would have to be proportionally > very small.) Well, you would think the circular version would work if > the linear one does. But, the linear "accellerator" has significant > discontinuities at its ends. That's a real difference, maybe explains > what we're seeing. David > > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > David Sligar schrieb: > > > > > > Dear Stefan -- I turned my alnico magnets 90 degrees as you suggested. > > > Then I oriented them in every direction I could imagine, just to cover > > > that aspect. No tangential force that I could detect manually, and I > > > see a recent post from Sam Smith, who has taken the time to build a > > > careful model. He gets no continuous rotation. > > > I have to conclude that either a) we are doing something completely > > > wrong, either obvious or not obvious, or b) the simulation is flawed. > > > > > > Just to remind you, I have two ceramic ring magnets, about 4 1/2" dia., > > > and alnico rods, 1/4" x 3/4" -- Spaced the ring magnets about 1 inch > > > apart, inserted a pair of the rods, both touching each other and spaced > > > apart about 1/8" -- No result yet. Any comment? Thanks, David > > > > Hi, > > I have not yet seen the email from > > Sam Smith, > > can you forward it please ? > > > > Hmm, maybe in the circular case there the runner > > magnets have to have a special length, so there is > > not too much side effect by any "corner-side fields".. > > > > When I have more time I will test for these border > > fields influence effects. > > Maybe it is best to use "banana" shaped runner > > magnets then, which fit to the track curvature !? > > > > Are your alnico rods still fully located inside the track, > > or are they looking out of it with both ends ? > > > > Best regards, Stefan. > > > > -- > > > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > > -- > > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 12:25:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA13261; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:25:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:25:20 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <62.2975fa9.262f61f4@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:24:36 EDT Subject: Ratio of magnets in side and vertical movement? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_62.2975fa9.262f61f4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"iPTzw1.0.zE3.VWW_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_62.2975fa9.262f61f4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know if there is a fixed ratio of force times distance for pulling apart two magnets in the vertical direction as compared to pulling them buy sliding them apart at 90 degrees. I once heard that the force to pull them apart was 5 times less in sliding (90degrees), but five times the distance required to separate them. See drawing for illustration. Thanks, Butch --part1_62.2975fa9.262f61f4_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="test1.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="test1.gif" R0lGODlhPALpAPcAAAAAAP8AAP////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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(off topic) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"2moIA2.0.vZ.yZY_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A company in Norway, Sintef Corporation, has perfected a CO2 system called Transcritical CO2 for automobiles. It is just as efficient if not better than anything Dupont has. The EPA in the US has given it's approval of the system. Now as you know we exhale CO2, it comes out of factory stacks everywhere. It's dirt cheap! Now I bet DuPont finds a way to get this system off the market. Purdue University is having it's eighth international refrigeration conference July 25 thru 28 and it is centered on this new CO2 cycle. What do you think DuPont will do? They stand to loose billions of dollars if this system gets into the world auto air-conditioning market. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 06:57:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00663; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 06:56:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 06:56:54 -0700 From: "Phillip Brost" To: Subject: RE: What do you think Dupont will do? (off topic) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:56:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <6a.2015cb6.262f82d2@aol.com> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"fOlUi3.0.BA.com_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Do you have any links to more information on these inventions. thank you phillip brost -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com [mailto:HLafonte@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 4:45 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; jlnlabs@egroups.com; energy21@listbot.com Subject: What do you think Dupont will do? (off topic) A company in Norway, Sintef Corporation, has perfected a CO2 system called Transcritical CO2 for automobiles. It is just as efficient if not better than anything Dupont has. The EPA in the US has given it's approval of the system. Now as you know we exhale CO2, it comes out of factory stacks everywhere. It's dirt cheap! Now I bet DuPont finds a way to get this system off the market. Purdue University is having it's eighth international refrigeration conference July 25 thru 28 and it is centered on this new CO2 cycle. What do you think DuPont will do? They stand to loose billions of dollars if this system gets into the world auto air-conditioning market. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 07:08:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06072; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:08:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:08:26 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:07:34 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:31:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: RE: What do you think Dupont will do? (off topic) In-reply-to: <6a.2015cb6.262f82d2@aol.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2615ZYKTEGWDZ X400-MTS-identifier: [;43700102400002/4657596@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"LUOA12.0.eU1.Pzm_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch, When DuPont's patent on Freon(R) expired and everyone could start making it they needed a reason for everyone to buy their newly patented more expensive replacement. How coincidentally fortuitous for them that the ozone depletion myth was started, wink, wink. I suppose if someone started another myth about CO2 causing some kind of environmental problem for the gullible public to swallow hook line & sinker all over again. ;^) I mean just because CO2 is PLANT FOOD shouldn't deter the public from jumping on the solar electric band wagon. Maybe they could have a presidential candidate champion their cause, like maybe that guy who invented the internet. Oh, and the book-play-movie "Love Story" was based on him and his wife. Oh, and nuns who have taken a vow of poverty line up to give him 5000 dollar checks. What a guy. Bill webriggs@concentric.net Briggs@XLNsystems.com >A company in Norway, Sintef Corporation, has perfected a CO2 system called >Transcritical CO2 for automobiles. It is just as efficient if not better >than anything Dupont has. The EPA in the US has given it's approval of the >system. Now as you know we exhale CO2, it comes out of factory stacks >everywhere. It's dirt cheap! Now I bet DuPont finds a way to get this >system off the market. Purdue University is having it's eighth >international refrigeration conference July 25 thru 28 and it is centered >on this new CO2 cycle. What do you think DuPont will do? They stand to >loose billions of dollars if this system gets into the world auto >air-conditioning market. >Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 13:29:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22477; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:28:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:28:58 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <72.3199b59.2630c260@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:28:16 EDT Subject: Re: What do you think Dupont will do? (off topic) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105 Resent-Message-ID: <"LFvMI.0.6V5.9Ys_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/20/00 9:10:09 AM Central Daylight Time, MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov writes: << Butch, When DuPont's patent on Freon(R) expired and everyone could start making it they needed a reason for everyone to buy their newly patented more expensive replacement. How coincidentally fortuitous for them that the ozone depletion myth was started, wink, wink. I suppose if someone started another myth about CO2 causing some kind of environmental problem for the gullible public to swallow hook line & sinker all over again. ;^) I mean just because CO2 is PLANT FOOD shouldn't deter the public from jumping on the solar electric band wagon. Maybe they could have a presidential candidate champion their cause, like maybe that guy who invented the internet. Oh, and the book-play-movie "Love Story" was based on him and his wife. Oh, and nuns who have taken a vow of poverty line up to give him 5000 dollar checks. What a guy. Bill webriggs@concentric.net Briggs@XLNsystems.com >> Evidently, DuPont was already prepared for this as people have been saying for years that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and too much will raise the temperature of the Earth. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 15:56:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06454; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:55:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:55:43 -0700 Message-ID: <013301bfab1b$82a0b4a0$a75cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <72.3199b59.2630c260@aol.com> Subject: Re: What do you think Dupont will do? (off topic) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:36:12 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"xY2GX2.0.ea1.jhu_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Evidently, DuPont was already prepared for this as people have been saying > for years that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and too much will raise the > temperature of the Earth. ...until the Sun goes into a prolonged decline in output, at which point you'll never hear the term "global warming" again, except of course in the phrase "remember when all those idiots believed in global warming?" There's no reason it couldn't happen. There's no reason it couldn't be happening right now... -- "Alan Turing predicted that the idea of machines thinking would be routine by the end of the century. The very second that time ran out for his prediction was the second that computers were set to demonstrate their complete stupidity because they couldn't add up dates." --Stephen Grand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 18:08:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19744; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:08:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:08:20 -0700 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:03:40 -0400 Subject: Re: What do you think Dupont will do? (off topic) Message-ID: <20000420.210347.-404375.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,14-18 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"BwzZw2.0.Jq4.4ew_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Evidently, DuPont was already prepared for this as people have been saying > for years that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and too much will raise the > temperature of the Earth. A huge amount of CO2 is produced by natural processes, the amount produced by man is comparatively small. Not only that, but the amount of CO2 present in the atmosphere is carefully regulated by the carbonate/silicate process. Even if we did start to overload the environment, there is not enough reliable data to be sure (to any reasonable degree) that global warming is taking place. If DuPont is so worried about greenhouse gases, then why aren't they warning about others, such as water vapor, that are dumped into the atmosphere by industry (and cars, incidentally)? The whole "global warming" business is just paranoia, as far as I am concerned. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 21:08:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA05552; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:08:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:08:26 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:07:49 EDT Subject: Address for CO2 web site To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"XJgcr.0.fM1.wGz_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: IEA/IIR WORKSHOP SINTEF Norway From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 21:15:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA07358; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:14:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:14:55 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:14:17 EDT Subject: Re: To Bmd2323, Butch, Dupont will do? (off topic) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"vWWiS.0.to1._Mz_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 4/20/00 3:36:23 PM Central Daylight Time, Bmd2323@aol.com writes: > Evidently, DuPont was already prepared for this as people have been saying > for years that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and too much will raise the > temperature of the Earth. What is interesting is that the EPA see this system reducing CO2 in the air because the CO2 will be taken from sources that are now putting CO2 in the air! Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 21:18:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08811; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:18:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:18:38 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:17:58 EDT Subject: EPA says CO2 airconditioning will reduce air born CO2 To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"KixB-2.0.a92.TQz_u"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What is interesting is that the EPA see this system reducing CO2 in the air because the CO2 will be taken from sources that are now putting CO2 in the air! Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 12:41:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11195; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:41:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:41:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3900AE10.9B61C0A5@harti.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:37:52 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy Subject: 3D magnetic simulation program ? X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7c-Bg1.0.mk2.GxA0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, is there any inexpensive 3D magnetic simulation program out there ? Maybe shareware ? I only know Quickfield and FEMM, but they are just 2D only and for simulation of the PM^2rot I need a 3D package. Is there any out there for a PC ? Thanks ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 12:52:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15976; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:51:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:51:58 -0700 Message-ID: <3900B09D.84ED80F9@harti.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:48:45 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy Subject: Rotary motion solved !Re: PM^2rot ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ikL511.0.Xv3.U5B0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi , I just posted a new picture about the successful rotary motion of the new PM^2 design, I will now call PM^2rot. Here are 2 view ( top and side view to make clear, how the magnets are positioned inside the stator field (the coil in my experiment) This is a side view at the coil wall. Only the upper and lower front magnets are shown ! 45 degrees to the wall positioned ! (only one coil wall is shown!) o o o _ o / \ o ( \ \ o ( N ) \ o (_ )/ o o _ o / \ o ( \ \ o ( S ) \ o (_ )/ o o o o <--Coil wall o ==================================== <-table ======================================================================= ======================================================================= This is a top view, also only the upper 2 magnets shown of the runner stack ! /^S^^/^\^N^^\ o / / \ \ o o /_N__/ \__S_\ o o o o o o o o o o o o o o <-coil wall This way you can generate a tangential force inside the coil ! The 4 magnets runner stacks are neodymn magnets and have the same prolarity as in my previous PM^2 designs, but each 2 of them are positioned about 45 to 90 degrees apart to each other. This way there is a real torque onto the rotor ! You can really feel the force, when you do it manually ! I hope there will will be soon confirmations of the other guys out there trying to build it with just permanent magnets. Please give it a try ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 12:53:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16506; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:53:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:53:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3900B0ED.A9FE779B@harti.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:50:05 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy Subject: Rotary motion solved !Re: PM^2rot ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rVwzZ2.0.i14.h6B0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi , I updated my website with a new picture of PM^2rot it is in http://www.overunity.com/pmsquare Look for the pmsrot01.jpg and pmsrot01.txt pmsrot02.txt -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 13:37:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30942; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:37:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:37:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3900BB2E.94CB82FE@harti.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:33:50 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitbo@gmx.de, Free Energy , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: PM^2rot X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <000501bfab83$0fda6660$5f239d3e@bitbo400> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------729FF0C9F009322B4987E71C" Resent-Message-ID: <"KLuxd.0.MZ7.plB0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --------------729FF0C9F009322B4987E71C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Cyril, no it is different from your drawing: 1. my quadropole still has an airgap in the middle !(my finger in this case !) You just use 2 magnets, I use 4 magnets for the quadropole ! This seems to make a huge difference, also at which angle you set this airgap inside the middle (position of the magnets to axis and coil wall !) 2. You have no constant magnetic field around your neodymn magnet. It probably decreases 1/r^2 outside it, so this is also different ! I have an almost constant field inside my coil ! The coil begins to roll on the table, when I switch on the current in my coil and keep my finger still ! So I really have a tangential force, there is NO CANCELATION ! Best regards, Stefan. --- In ou-builders@egroups.com, "Cyril Smith" wrote: > Hi Stefan, > > I got torque I could feel when I held a stack of two ceramic magnets in a > quadrupole configuration at the outside edge of a neodym disc magnet. But > when I analysed the situation the torque came from the radial forces that > the disc magnet put on the ends of the stack. Not only do the radial forces > create a torque, they also create a tangential force so that when you try to > get rotation about the centre line all the forces cancel. See attached gif. > Could your situation be the same? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Stefan Hartmann > To: ; ; Free Energy > ; Newman-L Mailing List > Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:34 PM > Subject: [ou-builders] Rotary motion solved !Re: PM^2 ! > > > > Hi All, > > I just found a new way to solve the rotary motion > > in PM^2 motor. > > > > I enclose a JPEG picture which shows this. > > > > I hold 4 magnets between my fingers into the opening > > of the coil and when I power on the coil the coil rotates > > on the table ! > > This way you can generate a tangential force inside the coil ! > > The 4 magnets runner stacks are neodymn magnets and have the same > > prolarity as in my previous PM^2 design, but each 2 of them are > > positioned > > 90 degrees apart to each other. > > This way there is a real torque onto the coil ! > > > > You can really feel the force ! > > I hope there will will be soon confirmations of the other guys > > out there trying to build it with just > > permanent magnets. > > Please give it a try ! > > > > Sorry again for the blurring of the picture, but the optics of the > > digital camera is still > > defocused. > > -- > > > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. 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TbG5vZShYdtfRNvCvdCDC9yZ2tvwp56Z/dPIXX/FndrArbijZ43USx3dOvOv1t1Bu92Kz53d l+IV3e3dUwLYqxze4p23y9jcnEjJy31n5n3ezuUb7w3fjdHQ5A1m9A0WeCvN+Y2K7D20893f EipM6o2yhti0ZivgcIdKIK3gxpehEhadDn4h4jRNAQEAOw== --------------729FF0C9F009322B4987E71C-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 16:56:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01910; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:56:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:56:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3900E9DA.8F9D8400@harti.com> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:52:58 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , bitbo@gmx.de, CHRIS KUELZOW , Dave Dameron , JNaudin509@aol.com, John Huckfeldt , Greg Watson , Juan de la Cruz Barrios , audax22@earthlink.net Subject: Cyril is getting 117 % OU ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------130E6B06D5DACDCEEC3F945D" Resent-Message-ID: <"0pVeH3.0.lT.UgE0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --------------130E6B06D5DACDCEEC3F945D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cyril Smith Date: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:46pm Subject: Overunity Eureka Hi Guys, Small eureka!!! After months fiddling around with efficiencies near 100% I have at last taken the plunge and closed the gap between my big slab magnets (and pinched my fingers :-( ). I have just measured an efficiency of 117%!!! 42.6 milliwatts in, 50 milliwatts out. Not enough to guarantee it is not a measurement error but enough to encourage me to go further. For those interested I am using crossed fields biassed with permanent magnets. The set up is shown in the exploded view attached. My big slab magnets are anisotropic ferrite blocks 6 inches by 4 inches by 1 inch magnetised across the 1 inch dimension. Part Number SFBL00131 obtained from Magnet Sales & Service Ltd. here in the UK. They are set about 3/4 inch (gap) apart in attractive mode (actually 21mm determined by the dimension of the small magnets, see below). The split ring core is designed to be clamped around cables for EMI suppression. I got it from RS Components stock number 261-8782 part number MTCN 40-27-15 which has 40mm OD, 27mm ID and 15mm height. I place small ferrite magnet blocks between the mating faces of the ring core. These magnets are approximately 21mm by 8mm by 6mm magnetised across the 6mm dimension. I got these from a hobby shop, Bull Electrical in Hove, UK (they have a web site). I wound a single layer of reasonably closely spaced 0.5 mm magnet wire on each half of the ring core (approx 80 turns, will count the turns later). The two coils are connected in series to create a classical toroidal winding. The ring core plus small magnets form an oval shape (40mm by 46mm) around which I wound a solenoid winding, again a single layer of closely spaced 0.5mm wire (approx 30 turns). This assembly was put between the two big slab magnets so that we have crossed field inside the ring core. The toroidal winding was used as the output loaded with 1000 ohm. The solenoid winding was the input, driven from a 50 ohm sig gen through a series 300pF capacitor at the series resonant frequency 1.4 MHz. Output voltage 20 V pk to pk. Sig gen checked with 47ohm load to give 4V pk to pk. Can't guarantee waveshape is not cause of the apparent OU because sig gen is tending very slightly to square off. Points to note. At this frequency capacitance effects are noticeable, especially if high impedance resonances occurr. The 1Kohm load keeps any output resonance under control, but capacitance coupling between the windings is evident. It matters which end of the output coil is earthed, and of course I have chosen that which gives me best results. Even if capacitance coupling is there, it does not explain the overunity result. I now have to look carefully for unwanted signal paths into my scope which might cause erroneous measurements. Also check load inductance (the 47 ohm could be different to 1000 ohm). If the measurements are genuine then I am on the right track. I have not used material developed for satureable reactors which, if my results are genuine, should give greater performance. Must search for Metglas source in UK. What I have noticed is that as I increased the field from my big magnets (bringing them closer to the toroid) the efficiency went up, did not seem to be asymptotic to 100% but looked as though it would cross over (as seems to have happened). I have reached the end stops, but if I had more powerful magnets I might get better results. Can't use neodym though, eddy current effects are too great. Will keep you posted. Regards Cyril -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! --------------130E6B06D5DACDCEEC3F945D Content-Type: image/gif; name="cyril.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="cyril.gif" R0lGODlhnwLCA9cAAAAAAEAAAIAAAKAAAMAAAOAAAP8AAABAAEBAAIBAAKBAAMBAAOBAAP9A AACAAECAAICAAKCAAMCAAOCAAP+AAACgAECgAICgAKCgAMCgAOCgAP+gAADAAEDAAIDAAKDA AMDAAODAAP/AAADgAEDgAIDgAKDgAMDgAODgAP/gAAD/AED/AID/AKD/AMD/AOD/AP//AAAA QEAAQIAAQKAAQMAAQOAAQP8AQABAQEBAQIBAQKBAQMBAQOBAQP9AQACAQECAQICAQKCAQMCA QOCAQP+AQACgQECgQICgQKCgQMCgQOCgQP+gQADAQEDAQIDAQKDAQMDAQODAQP/AQADgQEDg QIDgQKDgQMDgQODgQP/gQAD/QED/QID/QKD/QMD/QOD/QP//QAAAgEAAgIAAgKAAgMAAgOAA gP8AgABAgEBAgIBAgKBAgMBAgOBAgP9AgACAgECAgICAgKCAgMCAgOCAgP+AgACggECggICg gKCggMCggOCggP+ggADAgEDAgIDAgKDAgMDAgODAgP/AgADggEDggIDggKDggMDggODggP/g 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x6aMUEt9NYBkQmg11l1XVtp/XHs9NmUJH9Se2GSrXbZ526W9NtwiFiXd23Hb7dhThNV9N99h fqbW3n0LHiFNCw9++I8fI744uxQz/jjkkVcVEAA7 --------------130E6B06D5DACDCEEC3F945D-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 17:02:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03846; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:02:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:02:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3900EB50.946E1D24@harti.com> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:59:12 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , bitbo@gmx.de, CHRIS KUELZOW , Dave Dameron , JNaudin509@aol.com, John Huckfeldt , Greg Watson , Juan de la Cruz Barrios , audax22@earthlink.net Subject: Rotary motion unsolved ? X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rSHGv1.0._x.HmE0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- In ou-builders@egroups.com, "John Huckfeldt" co-op@p... wrote: > So are your magnets organised like this around your finger? No, it is different ! Look at my picture again and at my ASCII-drawings I also posted ! But I guess, Cyril is right again. There are no forces which work from the main coil axis. They seem to cancel each other if you draw the vector force adding diagram. What I did is put the axis into my finger and watch the coil rotate around versus my finger axis. This could maybe used for something like the hamster cage motor: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/calloway.html when you use instead of the coil all permanent magnets. But then it needs the gravity to rotate, then it is much more like the Bessler wheel, one side of the wheel will have more weight and thus it will rotate. In this moment PM^2 seems only to work in the linear mode or the Hamster cage motor mode with the help of gravity. Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 18:03:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA24087; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:03:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:03:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01bfabf8$09263040$b96ad9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: Subject: Fw: Adams, Bedini motor Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:13:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFABCE.1F9786A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"KaRFy3.0.Cu5.HfF0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFABCE.1F9786A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert=20 To: interact@Keelynet.com=20 Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 6:24 PM Subject: Adams, Bedini motor Hello All, Have you built the motor at the website: = http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/idea.html And will it charge the = battery? Maybe not at first. Place a "arc gap" of some kind between S1 = and the battery and watch it charge now. Regards, Robert H. Calloway ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFABCE.1F9786A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Robert =
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: Adams, Bedini motor

Hello All, Have you built the motor at = the website:=20 http://www.nidlink.com/~= john1/idea.html  =20 And will it charge the battery? Maybe not at first. Place a "arc gap" of = some=20 kind between S1 and the battery and watch it charge now. Regards, Robert H. Calloway
 
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFABCE.1F9786A0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 18:24:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA30062; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:24:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:24:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3900FE88.C1C56B19@harti.com> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 03:21:12 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , bitbo@gmx.de, CHRIS KUELZOW , Dave Dameron , JNaudin509@aol.com, John Huckfeldt , Greg Watson , Juan de la Cruz Barrios , audax22@earthlink.net Subject: Re: PM^2 picture X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------03C20AD43278401F3E06CBE9" Resent-Message-ID: <"j1TBw2.0.dL7.DzF0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --------------03C20AD43278401F3E06CBE9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi , I edited a bit the picture from Olaf Berens. This is the red rotation axis, where the magnets want to turn 90 degrees into the alignment with the radius of the coil. Thus there is no force onto the main axis ! see enclose pm2.gif pic -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! --------------03C20AD43278401F3E06CBE9 Content-Type: image/gif; name="pm2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="pm2.gif" R0lGODdhJgLCAbMAACgZFINHLqmjp7zFwudbM9+ZhejoqvD59v9ZNv+8fP//b//7qv/s5P/9 4P//7////ywAAAAAJgLCAQAE/vDJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oeqRs675wLM90bd94Pq8mzz+/ SbBHGeqOyKRyyWw6n7Gf0bMyTlFXqHbL7Xq/4DBnmi2Vxei0es1uK33Eypk0d9vv+Lx+Xd/7 /4CBgoMafRlSEoYiioSNjo+QbQAikxMAlzyXlSyTm5GfoKGiNIyUl4mbnZZjHgClo7CxsoKv h3K3FqlAD6orrhZwH55Vs8XGx4Gala6+Epq7zs+8vM++p7mo2bpAB8/X3p7RmMuntcjn6Ok1 mZbd2tmrzrzuQKrOxPL38tv6v/aT9PJNq8ROncGDCHH8ILhs2rwLqdzpUrapCkCH8y4SdNiw IcZp/s3IXUtIsqTJFNv+VSEWUNVEXM3khYwns2NNCi91mTvJsycyi7v4RVw186U+IUJb4rzp 8Ve9VfY++pxKlaeypZZGiusojVo4gd0wiavQlKPArRy7Vl07tY6inVsuhvjqEC7bu3jX3bKC 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smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24335; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:54:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:54:40 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:54:01 EDT Subject: Fwd: Please Refridgerate Message To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_e2.3767455.26326e49_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"B-efI2.0.7y5.lHH0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_e2.3767455.26326e49_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_e2.3767455.26326e49_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:45:17 -0400 Received: from college.antioch-college.edu (antioch-college.edu [192.131.123.11]) by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:44:48 -0400 Received: from localhost (herman@localhost) by college.antioch-college.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA01146 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:50:06 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: HLafonte@aol.com Subject: Please Refridgerate Message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Butch, I tried to respond to the post below, but I cannot post to free energy group. Please post if you think appropriate. Thanks, John Your message failed to be delivered. The following error message was reported: Received: (qmail 17596 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 21:51:13 -0000 Dear Folks, CO2 and ammonia systems for refridgeration pre date Freon. I am glad someone is attempting to put CO2 systems on market. In general a study of the history and ethics of a given branch of applied sciences will yield useful methodologies that simply went by the wayside. On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > A company in Norway, Sintef Corporation, has perfected a CO2 system called > Transcritical CO2 for automobiles. It is just as efficient if not better than > anything Dupont has. The EPA in the US has given it's approval of the system. > Now as you know we exhale CO2, it comes out of factory stacks everywhere. > It's dirt cheap! Now I bet DuPont finds a way to get this system off the > market. Purdue University is having it's eighth international refrigeration > conference July 25 thru 28 and it is centered on this new CO2 cycle. > What do you think DuPont will do? They stand to loose billions of dollars if > this system gets into the world auto air-conditioning market. > Butch --part1_e2.3767455.26326e49_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 06:11:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09143; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 06:10:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 06:10:49 -0700 Message-ID: <39019717.8F08B0A1@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:12:07 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 3D magnetic simulation program ? References: <3900AE10.9B61C0A5@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bwVkv2.0.mE2.PJQ0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, I have one on a disk that came with my electrodynamics textbook. I don't know if it is what you had in mind or not. MJ Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi All, > > is there any inexpensive 3D magnetic simulation program > out there ? Maybe shareware ? > > I only know Quickfield and FEMM, > but they are just 2D only and for > simulation of the PM^2rot I need a 3D package. > > Is there any out there for a PC ? > > Thanks ! > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 09:21:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16297; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:20:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:20:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3901D1A1.8040902@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 12:21:53 -0400 From: patrick tremblay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: PM^2 picture References: <3900FE88.C1C56B19@harti.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030704030603000905070305" Resent-Message-ID: <"myMnk2.0.T-3.X5T0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------030704030603000905070305 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI all, I'm back ONLINE, glad to see the group has made progresses with this PM^2 force. You can go at this link, I thought too that the concentric coil would be a problem for the motion of this motor, so here's another way to design it: http://www.powercoil.com/schematic4.html that way it eliminates any undesireable forces. --------------030704030603000905070305 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI all,

I'm back ONLINE,

glad to see the group has made progresses with this PM^2 force.

You can go at this link, I thought too that the concentric coil would be a problem for the motion of this motor, so here's another way to design it:

http://www.powercoil.com/schematic4.html

that way it eliminates any undesireable forces.


--------------030704030603000905070305-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 10:12:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29540; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:11:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:11:58 -0700 Message-ID: <3901DC9E.FBED0E53@harti.com> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 19:08:46 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitbo@gmx.de, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: Re: PM^2rot drawing X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <000501bfab83$0fda6660$5f239d3e@bitbo400> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3E1A910D5D3FFCEB1E3D022A" Resent-Message-ID: <"3ErG41.0.SD7.UrT0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --------------3E1A910D5D3FFCEB1E3D022A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Olaf, you did understand it wrong, if you just used only 2 magnets ! It must be 4 magnets used ! I enclose an edited picture of you ! Please try it again like this and let me know. Also try to change the angle between the magnets. 90 degrees might not be the best... Regards, Stefan. --- In jlnlabs@egroups.com, bitbo@t... wrote: > Hi all, > > today i built a new rotor for the pm^2 device. > > Stefan Hartmann played around with the pm^2 > and recognised an effect (his coil ran away) when > he used the magnets in a 45° or 90° arrangement. > > I built the new rotor and tested it in my 1.5 KW coil > without success - see my picture-link: > > http://members.xoom.com/encosy/images/rotor2.jpg > > or complete report at: > > http://members.xoom.com/encosy/pm^2.htm > (please copy and paste the link to your browser. > some browsers can't handle the "^" ...) > > so long > Olaf Berens > - Germany - bitbo@gmx.de schrieb: > > Hallo, > > ich habe einige Tests durchgeführt und auf meiner Homepage unter > > http://members.xoom.com/encosy/pm^2.htm > > veröffentlicht. > > Ich habe ein Bild von dir kopiert und Links auf deine Page hinzugefügt. > > Bitte gib mir Bescheid, ob das in Ordnung ist ... > > so long > Olaf Berens > > PS: Wie wäre es mit einem Link auf meine Seite :-) -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! --------------3E1A910D5D3FFCEB1E3D022A Content-Type: image/gif; name="rotorsh2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="rotorsh2.gif" R0lGODdhJgLCAbMAAGNFRXeHfadCRq6tr+kFAeM9Sc/IzOvz7v8UHv9fYv+qrv/h2P/q9f/3 +///8////ywAAAAAJgLCAQAE/vDJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM90bd94ru987//A oHBILBqPyKRyyWw6n9CodEqtWq/YrHbL7Xq/4LB4TC6bz+i0es1uu9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7 /4CBgoOEhYaHiImKi4yNjo+QkZKTlJWWWwcHDwcODhKdJg0NE6Kjl6eodZmfng+gpiKiFLKp tbZstKCuraKaIp26t8LDZLmtnaO0v8DEzc5fnQvSC52ZDKOtHtPTDwzP3+BSnp0C5QIACxKi 2R7m5enh8fJKmZ0ECAgEAvDAsB0EAPUtUDavoMEe9RwERLCPVbB/9wQSPEix4o2AABVsE4Gx ocWP/iBnYARYDh3HgB5DqlyZAt9IhvD8begIj6XNmyBcLhToy5SvDDRxCh0KdGQ5AhoXMLjm 4CeGoESjRh2ZlOQ5auyeoqwptavNjt4egG0QVgNUdTK9qi0YVOHWdVkrnH0wca3dcDQz5b0A 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freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 12:17:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA00301; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 12:17:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 12:17:39 -0700 Message-ID: <3901FB13.6030505@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 15:18:43 -0400 From: patrick tremblay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 3D magnetic simulation program ? References: <3900AE10.9B61C0A5@harti.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020502090201080504050109" Resent-Message-ID: <"OubNC1.0.r_7.IhV0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------020502090201080504050109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit go at: www.ansoft.com and ask for an evaluation version. Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi All, > > is there any inexpensive 3D magnetic simulation program > out there ? Maybe shareware ? > > I only know Quickfield and FEMM, > but they are just 2D only and for > simulation of the PM^2rot I need a 3D package. > > Is there any out there for a PC ? > > Thanks ! > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > > > --------------020502090201080504050109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit go at:

www.ansoft.com

and ask for an evaluation version.

Stefan Hartmann wrote:
Hi All,

is there any inexpensive 3D magnetic simulation program
out there ? Maybe shareware ?

I only know Quickfield and FEMM,
but they are just 2D only and for
simulation of the PM^2rot I need a 3D package.

Is there any out there for a PC ?

Thanks !
-- 

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
--
Hartmann Multimedia Service, 
Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany
Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498
email: harti@harti.com  info@ccard.net
http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !

--------------020502090201080504050109-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 09:23:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18092; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 09:22:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 09:22:32 -0700 Message-ID: <39032289.86FCBEF4@harti.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 18:19:22 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: Happy Eastern ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MiDEv1.0.bQ4.8Do0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Happy Eastern to everybody ! May we see soon practical overunity devices surface ! :) -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 16:33:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27526; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 16:32:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 16:32:56 -0700 Message-ID: <007501bfad7e$48d582e0$a51b56c3@avd> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Green Algae Hydrogen Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:46:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0072_01BFAD8E.F832BFE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"2RPHf1.0._j6.eWu0v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BFAD8E.F832BFE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:37:07 +0100 From: wytze To: GEN-TECH@NIC.SURFNET.NL Subject: [GT] Look! no genetic engineering - Standaard topics voor iedereen zijn... _Actie: _Allen: _Fwd: = _Patenten: - Extra topics zijn... _Notulen: (voor deeln. platformoverleg) _JMA: = _DB: _NPG: - Benader voor hulp - Biotech Activists wrote: > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D > >From List: Biotech Activists (biotech_activists@iatp.org) > Date Posted: 03/24/2000 > Posted by: M.W.Ho@open.ac.uk > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D > > This item is appearing in the upcoming issue of ISISnews(#4). It is a = prime > example of sustainable, environmentally friendly organic science and > technology. > > Look! No Genetic Engineering > Growing Hydrogen from Green Algae and Sunlight > > A research group headed by Anastasios Melis, a biochemist in the = Department > of Plant and Microbial Biology in University of California Berkeley, = have > made a sensational discovery. It has kept Melis' telephone buzzing = ever > since he gave a talk at the American Association for the Advancement = of > Science annual meeting earlier this year. They discover how to grow = hydrogen > gas from green algae and sunlight. Hydrogen is the cleanest renewable = fuel > around. The beauty of burning hydrogen is that you get pure water = back, and > already, motor-cars are under development that would burn hydrogen. = (This > may be a good way to purify water as a by-product!) > The alga they are working with is the single-celled Chlamydomonas, = which can > be grown easily in the laboratory. Normally, it lives by = photosynthsis, a > process in which the energy of sunlight is absorbed by the green = pigment > chlorophyll to split water into its elements, hydrogen and oxygen. = Actually, > only oxygen is released, while hydrogen is separated into a positively > charged proton and a negatively charged electron. The proton goes to = reduce > carbon dioxide to carbohydrates (CHO)n, while the electron goes = through an > electron transport chain to make ATP, the universal energy = intermediate in > living organisms. Some of the carbohydrates are oxidized, or combined = back > with oxygen to give carbon dioxide and water in respiration, in a = reversal > of photosynthesis. The rest of the carbohydrates are converted into > proteins, nucleic acids and other constituents of the cell which are > necessary for growth and repair. Proteins contain nitrogen and also = sulphur. > > It so happens that when the alga is deprived of sulphur and sealed = tight but > still exposed to sunlight, it switches to another metabolic state = after 24 > to 30 h and begins to release hydrogen gas which is 87% pure. The rest = is > mostly nitrogen, with 1% carbon dioxide and traces of oxygen. And it = can > keep this up at least until 150 h. > The precise source of the hydrogen is not yet known. It almost = certainly > involves a reversal of the charge separation process in = photosynthesis, ie, > electrons are recombined back with protons to give hydrogen. This = reaction > is catalyzed by an enzyme, hydrogenase. But simultaneously, there is a > breakdown of proteins. It appears that the alga is recycling its = proteins to > get sulphur, so that the building blocks necessary for survival can be = made. > > The beauty of it is that the alga has this ability all along, which no > genetic engineering could create, and no genetic engineer has even = thought > of attempting to create. All that was needed was to alter the = environment. > The rate of production is still modest, about 2 millilitres per hour = per > litre of culture, which the researchers are confident of increasing up = to > 10-fold.The process is also reversible, so that the alga can be = alternated > through phases of photosynthesis and hydrogen production several = times. > Dr. Melis is one of the life science professors involved in the deal = whereby > the biotech giant Novartis effectively bought the department for US 50 > million over five years. "But I am really the bottom of the pile", he = said > modestly when I met him in his laboratory, for he was not a genetic = engineer > and did not believe in genetic engineering. Furthermore, Novartis will = get > no right to exploit his research, for it is supported by the = Department of > Energy, which has insisted his research is not part of the Novartis = deal. As > of the beginning of March when I met him, he has had lots of interest = from > companies that grow algae, but not yet from the petrol companies. > This is a prime example of the kind of science that can really provide = safe, > environmentally friendly and sustainable technologies. It also shows = how > rewarding it is to work with the organism, whose natural potential is = far > greater than can be imagined by reductionist, narrowly focussed = genetic > engineers. > Reference: Melis, A., Zhang, L., Forestier, M., Ghirardi, M.L. and = Seibert, > M. (2000). Sustained photobiological hydrogen gas production upon = reversible > inactivation of oxygen evolution in the green alga Chlamydomonas > reinhardtii. Plant Physiology 122, 127-135. > > Mae-Wan Ho > Director, Institute of Science in Society > > c/oBiology Department > Open University > Walton Hall Milton Keynes > MK7 6AA UK > tel:44-1908-653113 > fax:44-1908-654167 > > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > How to Use this Mailing List > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > > You received this e-mail as a result of your registration on the biotech_activists mailing list. > > To unsubscribe, please send an email to listserv@iatp.org. In the body = of the message type: > unsubscribe biotech_activists > > For a list of other commands and list options, please send email to listserv@iatp.org. > In the body of the message type: > help > > Please direct questions about this list to: mritchie@iatp.org > > Please direct technical questions about this service to: = support@iatp.org | reply to to reach every-one | contact for problems ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BFAD8E.F832BFE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
---------- Forwarded message = ----------
Date:=20 Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:37:07 +0100
From: wytze <geno@ZAP.A2000.NL>
To: GEN-TECH@NIC.SURFNET.NL
Su= bject:=20 [GT] Look! no genetic engineering

- Standaard topics voor = iedereen=20 zijn... _Actie: _Allen: _Fwd: _Patenten:
- Extra topics zijn... = _Notulen:=20 (voor deeln. platformoverleg) _JMA: _DB:
_NPG:
- Benader <GEN-TECH-request@nic.surf= net.nl>=20 voor hulp -

Biotech Activists wrote:

>=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D
> >From=20 List:   Biotech Activists (biotech_activists@iatp.org= )
>=20 Date Posted: 03/24/2000
> Posted by:   M.W.Ho@open.ac.uk
>=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D
>
> This item is=20 appearing in the upcoming issue of ISISnews(#4). It is a prime
> = example=20 of sustainable, environmentally friendly organic science and
>=20 technology.
>
> Look! No Genetic Engineering
> Growing = Hydrogen from Green Algae and Sunlight
>
> A research group = headed=20 by Anastasios Melis, a biochemist in the Department
> of Plant and = Microbial Biology in University of California Berkeley, have
> = made a=20 sensational discovery. It has kept Melis' telephone buzzing ever
> = since=20 he gave a talk at the American Association for the Advancement = of
>=20 Science annual meeting earlier this year. They discover how to grow=20 hydrogen
> gas from green algae and sunlight. Hydrogen is the = cleanest=20 renewable fuel
> around. The beauty of burning hydrogen is that = you get=20 pure water back, and
> already, motor-cars are under development = that=20 would burn hydrogen. (This
> may be a good way to purify water as = a=20 by-product!)
> The alga they are working with is the single-celled = Chlamydomonas, which can
> be grown easily in the laboratory. = Normally, it=20 lives by photosynthsis, a
> process in which the energy of = sunlight is=20 absorbed by the green pigment
> chlorophyll to split water into = its=20 elements, hydrogen and oxygen. Actually,
> only oxygen is = released, while=20 hydrogen is separated into a positively
> charged proton and a = negatively=20 charged electron. The proton goes to reduce
> carbon dioxide to=20 carbohydrates (CHO)n, while the electron goes through an
> = electron=20 transport chain to make ATP, the universal energy intermediate = in
> living=20 organisms. Some of the carbohydrates are oxidized, or combined = back
> with=20 oxygen to give carbon dioxide and water in respiration, in a = reversal
> of=20 photosynthesis.  The rest of the carbohydrates are converted = into
>=20 proteins, nucleic acids and other constituents of the cell which = are
>=20 necessary for growth and repair. Proteins contain nitrogen and also=20 sulphur.
>
> It so happens that when the alga is deprived of = sulphur=20 and sealed tight but
> still exposed to sunlight, it switches to = another=20 metabolic state after 24
> to 30 h and begins to release hydrogen = gas=20 which is 87% pure. The rest is
> mostly nitrogen, with 1% carbon = dioxide=20 and traces of oxygen. And it can
> keep this up at least until 150 = h.
> The precise source of the hydrogen is not yet known. It = almost=20 certainly
> involves a reversal of the charge separation process = in=20 photosynthesis, ie,
> electrons are recombined back with protons = to give=20 hydrogen. This reaction
> is catalyzed by an enzyme, hydrogenase. = But=20 simultaneously, there is a
> breakdown of proteins. It appears = that the=20 alga is recycling its proteins to
> get sulphur, so that the = building=20 blocks necessary for survival can be made.
>
> The beauty of = it is=20 that the alga has this ability all along, which no
> genetic = engineering=20 could create, and no genetic engineer has even thought
> of = attempting to=20 create.  All that was needed was to alter the environment.
> = The rate=20 of production is still modest, about 2 millilitres per hour per
> = litre of=20 culture, which the researchers are confident of increasing up to
> = 10-fold.The process is also reversible, so that the alga can be=20 alternated
> through phases of photosynthesis and hydrogen = production=20 several times.
> Dr. Melis is one of the life science professors = involved=20 in the deal whereby
> the biotech giant Novartis effectively = bought the=20 department for US 50
> million over five years. "But I am really = the=20 bottom of the pile", he said
> modestly when I met him in his = laboratory,=20 for he was not a genetic engineer
> and did not believe in genetic = engineering. Furthermore, Novartis will get
> no right to exploit = his=20 research, for it is supported by the Department of
> Energy, which = has=20 insisted his research is not part of the Novartis deal. As
> of = the=20 beginning of March when I met him, he has had lots of interest = from
>=20 companies that grow algae, but not yet from the petrol = companies.
> This=20 is a prime example of the kind of science that can really provide = safe,
>=20 environmentally friendly and sustainable technologies. It also shows = how
>=20 rewarding it is to work with the organism, whose natural potential is=20 far
> greater than can be imagined by reductionist, narrowly = focussed=20 genetic
> engineers.
> Reference: Melis, A., Zhang, L., = Forestier,=20 M., Ghirardi, M.L. and Seibert,
> M. (2000). Sustained = photobiological=20 hydrogen gas production upon reversible
> inactivation of oxygen = evolution=20 in the green alga Chlamydomonas
> reinhardtii. Plant Physiology = 122,=20 127-135.
>
> Mae-Wan Ho
> Director, Institute of = Science in=20 Society
> <www.i-sis.org>
>=20 c/oBiology Department
> Open University
> Walton Hall Milton = Keynes
> MK7 6AA UK
> tel:44-1908-653113
>=20 fax:44-1908-654167
>
> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D
> How to=20 Use this Mailing List
> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D
>
> You=20 received this e-mail as a result of your registration on=20 the
biotech_activists mailing list.
>
> To unsubscribe, = please=20 send an email to listserv@iatp.org. In=20 the body of
the message type:
> unsubscribe=20 biotech_activists
>
> For a list of other commands and list = options,=20 please send email to
listserv@iatp.org.
> In the = body of=20 the message type:
> help
>
> Please direct questions = about=20 this list to: mritchie@iatp.org
>
> = Please=20 direct technical questions about this service to: support@iatp.org

| reply to = <GEN-TECH@nic.surfnet.nl> = to reach=20 every-one
| contact <GEN-TECH-REQUEST@nic.surf= net.nl>=20 for problems


------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BFAD8E.F832BFE0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 14:56:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19608; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:55:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:55:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3904C1ED.8A71102@harti.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:51:41 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" Subject: Overunity movie archive back online ! X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ne3bW3.0.Ho4.sAC1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The movie archive is back online at: http://mars.spaceports.com/~over/movies/index.htm Does anybody know how to create easily an index HTML file with links in it to the files from a directoy text listing output ? Something like a text toc to HTML converter ?! I looked back and forth on the net and just found only txt2htm converters but WITHOUT generating links of every line and I still had to edit all the lines in the directory manually ! ;( Uff... Maybe you can support my research and subscribe to the alladv. adbar and also make some bucks while surfing yourself ! There is a link in the directory... Thanks ! Hope you had a happy Easter time. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 18:00:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18363; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:00:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:00:26 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <39032289.86FCBEF4@harti.com> References: <39032289.86FCBEF4@harti.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:59:51 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Happy Eastern ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"hoTBu3.0.jU4.fuE1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...and a felicitous Western too! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 18:01:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18815; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:01:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:01:35 -0700 Message-ID: <20000424225101.22800.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:51:01 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Snapshots in time of a MWO process To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"grOti3.0.sb4.kvE1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey all, back after an extended abscense. Thought this letter to Elfrad List would interest the group. > Please tell me what dose the letters (BSR and MWO) stand for ? I looked at your Oscope picture and it looks like a ringing effect from a > coil tested for a short. > This is a typical TV service check for a bad flyback or yoke or coil. > Thanks, Bill Hayes.. > > > > >The URL for this page is: > > >http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/Analomous.html The BRS (Binary Resonant System) is somewhat analogous to a center tap transformer, only no primary or secondary exists, only two coils in series resonance, each 180 phased like that of the secondaries in a center tap. A transformer gives a voltage rise in its output by ferromagnetic induction, the BRS gives a voltage rise by 180 phased series resonance. A transformer has a real potential, if a short is placed across its secondary, if the tranformer is not currrent limited as in a neon sign transformer(NST), it will conduct maximum amperage, and the voltage to that load is a fairly constant value for all load values. The BRS is normally air core and has what I have termed an unobvious potential. It is an example of a resonant choke circuit. The voltages delivered by the BRS are dependent on the resistance of the load itself. Thus thousands of volts might be measured at open circuit, and practically no potential measured when the load has minimal resistance. Thus the potential is unobvious. It may have high voltage but when a load is placed across that unobvious voltage it practically instantaneously reduces the input voltage, choking off the amperage that would have been delivered at that voltage, hence the term resonant choke. This load might consist of only a small arc gap, in which case the voltage will build up until the gap fires, but because of the unique resonant choke quality, that gap firing then represents a short choking off the voltage and amperage in the arc,thus extinguishing or quenching it. Ordinary spark gap oscillations to cause high freq effects such as the tesla coil do not have this self quenching characteristic, thus the category of high freq effects made by the BRS are different. These effects may seem bizaare because the fields obsaerved on a scope may show Multiple Wave Oscillations (MWO). On a single inductor several phases moving in and out of phase in time may occur. I have composed a mpeg real Windows Video of this phenomenon as observed on the scope in slow time frames. This can be found as the only mpeg file on the webpage index listed at the website. (This is not presently linked to the page and must be entered as a new address to access) If one simply were to view the phenomenon as a real scope observation, it would appear completely incoherant because of the speed or time of the scope traces. One should be able to stop the bottom bar of the real Windows video by mouse clicking at any portion of the video to see the phasing arrangement being exhibited in that slice of time. Additionally the MWO effect will make one inductor respond at one freq, and another inductor at an entirely diffferent one. So far I have measured 31,250 hz, 159,000 hz, 250,000 hz, 500,000 hz from inductors all on the same field plate. I havent yet got that info submitted to the page, many more entrees will be made. HDN __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 20:46:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09368; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 20:45:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 20:45:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3905072E.31F59A2B@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:47:11 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,be MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Barium Titinate Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8GUWk.0.HI2.lJH1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, In reference to the Barium Titinate in the Chemtrails I looked it up and found the following information; barium is an alkaline-earth metal and as all other members of it's group, can liberate H2 from H2O by the following reaction- Ba(s)+2H2O-->M++ + H2(g) + 2OH- This is just from reacting with water. Titanium on the other hand also reacts with H2O to liberate H2(g) in it's +3 state it is a better reduving agent than h2 and will react with water to liberate H2. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 21:13:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA16844; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:13:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:13:22 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <3904C8CB.B726C048@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:20:59 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Barium Titinate References: <3905072E.31F59A2B@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6bjMy3.0.474.XjH1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike Johnston wrote: > > Hi All, > In reference to the Barium Titinate in the Chemtrails I looked it up > and found the following information; > barium is an alkaline-earth metal and as all other members of it's > group, can liberate H2 from H2O by the following reaction- > Ba(s)+2H2O-->M++ + H2(g) + 2OH- > This is just from reacting with water. > Titanium on the other hand also reacts with H2O to liberate H2(g) in > it's +3 state it is a better reduving agent than h2 and will react with > water to liberate H2. > MJ Barium Titanate is a salt, and thus except for dissolving, undergoes no reaction at all with water... Barium Titanate is BaTiO3, Ti is in it's 4+ oxidation state. It's pretty innocous to humans. Although soluble Barium salts are poisonous, Barium Titanate is insoluble. They use insoluble barium salts, such as BaS04, for contrast agents in gastro intestinal X-rays. You get drink a glass of it. It's also shock white. Maybe they're trying to increase the albedo of the atmosphere and stop global warming? ;) Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 21:45:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24250; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:44:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:44:48 -0700 Message-ID: <20000425041050.13764.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:10:50 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Tesla Electric Co. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"RVB6t1.0.ow5._AI1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/Homepage.html Bookmark this address to look for weekly updates on the Binary Resonant System I actually applied for the legal name for this company and recieved an EIN around 1992. For an amusing story of how my picture was made check out the first enrty on page 1 at the messageboard address. From there on in is the recorded history of the BRS. This includes all my eroneous conceptions without editng or correction. http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/ contains the mpg file on Windows Real Video Player of the MWO process. The uncohered MWO signal is viewed in slow time. This is where those signals moving through time go in and out of phase as each shot is viewed in successive time frames. When that process is viewed in real time as the actual scope observation the information appears incoherant because everything is happening 5 sweeps per second. Slowing down the information reveals coherant signals. Any particular slice of time can be stopped by mousing the control bar. At the end of the video the TV selector switch is thrown and that information is then decoded or inrterpreted as the scalar form shown by the video. http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/Analomous.html Snapshots In Time of a MWO process has been updated with tesla list comments and new scope pictures showing what happens when we attempt to rectify the scalar form. A mpeg of this has also been made but not yet placed at the webpage. Who knows, maybe those guys made some premature comments without seeing all the evidence. Would appreciate a note offlist from someone as to whether the mpeg file can be viewed at your computer< I am new at this job! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 00:22:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA20471; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:21:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:21:28 -0700 Message-ID: <00c601bfae86$5f0866a0$b263fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: References: <3905072E.31F59A2B@csrlink.net> <3904C8CB.B726C048@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Barium Titinate Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:17:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"xM1Zy2.0.m_4.uTK1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone know exactly of what elements warm blooded animals like humans are made of, and what are the proportions? Especially iron to carbon? Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel" To: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 3:20 PM Subject: Re: Barium Titinate > Mike Johnston wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > In reference to the Barium Titinate in the Chemtrails I looked it up > > and found the following information; > > barium is an alkaline-earth metal and as all other members of it's > > group, can liberate H2 from H2O by the following reaction- > > Ba(s)+2H2O-->M++ + H2(g) + 2OH- > > This is just from reacting with water. > > Titanium on the other hand also reacts with H2O to liberate H2(g) in > > it's +3 state it is a better reduving agent than h2 and will react with > > water to liberate H2. > > MJ > > Barium Titanate is a salt, and thus except for dissolving, undergoes no > reaction at all with water... > Barium Titanate is BaTiO3, Ti is in it's 4+ oxidation state. > > It's pretty innocous to humans. Although soluble Barium salts are > poisonous, Barium Titanate is insoluble. They use insoluble barium > salts, such as BaS04, for contrast agents in gastro intestinal X-rays. > You get drink a glass of it. > > It's also shock white. Maybe they're trying to increase the albedo of > the atmosphere and stop global warming? ;) > > > Daniel Joyce > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 03:53:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA12787; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:52:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:52:49 -0700 Message-ID: <20000425105302.18857.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:53:02 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Uncohered forms To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"8F5oe2.0.c73.1aN1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/Uncohered.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 05:57:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02608; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:57:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 05:57:05 -0700 From: "Steve Burns" To: Subject: RE: Barium Titinate Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:55:59 -0400 Message-ID: <000601bfaeb5$9a70caa0$9b07a8c0@pokey.ironbridgenetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3904C8CB.B726C048@worldnet.att.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"0YAyj2.0.fe.WOP1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barium Titinate has one of the highest permittivity values (>2000). Steve -----Original Message----- From: crusoe@eskimo.com [mailto:crusoe@eskimo.com]On Behalf Of Daniel Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 6:21 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Barium Titinate Mike Johnston wrote: > > Hi All, > In reference to the Barium Titinate in the Chemtrails I looked it up > and found the following information; > barium is an alkaline-earth metal and as all other members of it's > group, can liberate H2 from H2O by the following reaction- > Ba(s)+2H2O-->M++ + H2(g) + 2OH- > This is just from reacting with water. > Titanium on the other hand also reacts with H2O to liberate H2(g) in > it's +3 state it is a better reduving agent than h2 and will react with > water to liberate H2. > MJ Barium Titanate is a salt, and thus except for dissolving, undergoes no reaction at all with water... Barium Titanate is BaTiO3, Ti is in it's 4+ oxidation state. It's pretty innocous to humans. Although soluble Barium salts are poisonous, Barium Titanate is insoluble. They use insoluble barium salts, such as BaS04, for contrast agents in gastro intestinal X-rays. You get drink a glass of it. It's also shock white. Maybe they're trying to increase the albedo of the atmosphere and stop global warming? ;) Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 18:11:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA03861; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:10:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:10:24 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: billb@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:59:06 -0700 Subject: What happened to the gravity capacitor man ? Message-ID: <20000425.180954.-228545.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"VOJam.0.7y._7a1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Did the gravity capacitor man ever come back after April 1st ? Apparently it was just another hoax as we suspected ? Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 19:05:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18350; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:05:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:05:11 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20000426020651.00880ca4@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: vinny@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:06:51 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Vinny Pinto Subject: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis with Tungsten Cathode Resent-Message-ID: <"8WJ1d.0.dU4.Mxa1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks: I'm new to the list, and a lot of my "fringe" tinkering so far has been in the areas of: longitudinal waves (so-called "scalar" waves) for communication, etc. (above) same for healing effects plasma discharge devices, including healing effects quantitative and qualitative measurement of negative hydrogen ion at STP (standard temperatures and pressures) nutritive effects of negative hydrogen ion electrolysis I just want to mention that my next experiment over the next few weeks will be to reproduce Mizuno's "cold fusion" experiment resulting in anomalous plasma discharge during light water electrolysis with a tungsten cathode. If anyone has any hints or suggestions to offer, or tales to tell on this topic, I am all ears! Thanks! --Vinny Vinny Pinto vinny@mindspring.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 19:12:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20645; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:12:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:12:33 -0700 Message-ID: <20000426021159.10996.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [4.35.108.123] From: "Mike Randall" To: References: <000f01bfabf8$09263040$b96ad9d0@58hde> Subject: Re: Adams, Bedini motor Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:12:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"SKy8r2.0.P25.H2b1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robert, What did you use for the spark-gap? Automotive spark plugs? What type of loads have you tried? Longest time length running to date? Can you leave it running for a week? Regards, Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 6:13 PM Subject: Fw: Adams, Bedini motor Hello All, Have you built the motor at the website: http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/idea.html And will it charge the battery? Maybe not at first. Place a "arc gap" of some kind between S1 and the battery and watch it charge now. Regards, Robert H. Calloway From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 19:19:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22596; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:18:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:18:39 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis with Tungsten Cathode Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:31:40 -0400 Message-ID: <20000426023140750.AAA260@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"R9y9f.0.zW5.-7b1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vinny writes: >I just want to mention that my next experiment over the next few weeks will >be to reproduce Mizuno's "cold fusion" experiment resulting in anomalous >plasma discharge during light water electrolysis with a tungsten cathode. >If anyone has any hints or suggestions to offer, or tales to tell on this >topic, I am all ears! > >Thanks! > >--Vinny >Vinny Pinto >vinny@mindspring.com Hi Vinny, That's a pretty cool little device, actually. If you are going to do calorimetry on it, I would suggest looking at Scott Little's efforts on the Vortex Group. If you need the URL, let me know. After that, I would look at what Jed Rothwell has made available on his webspace, and compare the two configurations. I would strongly suggest putting the recombiner beads into the cell itself, as Mizuno has done, and then doing the calorimetry. Good Luck! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 19:35:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26483; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:35:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:35:02 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20000426023643.00890c0c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: vinny@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:36:43 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Vinny Pinto Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis with Tungsten Cathode Resent-Message-ID: <"cwEEP2.0.iT6.MNb1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michael: Thanks for your reply! I very much appreciate your comments and feedback. I just found both of those pages this past weekend in a search on the topic. I also just received the 1950 Jnl. of Electrochemistry article on anomalous anode/ cathode behavior in the mail today. It may sound short-sighted or calloused, but at this point, Iam not particularly interested in calorimetry, it would take too much time and effort to set and run. For starters, since I am a bit of a plasma/plasmoid mystic, I just want to see the cathode glow, as well as any plasmoids, and witness any melting of the cathode (will be trying tungsten, titanium, aluminum, gold and silver and maybe zirconium if my vendor has it tomorrow.) Have Pt, but I have not heard of much success with Pt. Have Pd, but it is in one of my hydrogen gas generators (although a non-operational one!) and do not want to remove it! I did get some Li to dope the electrolyte with in some runs! --Vinny At 10:31 PM 4/25/00 -0400, you wrote: >Vinny writes: >>I just want to mention that my next experiment over the next few weeks will >>be to reproduce Mizuno's "cold fusion" experiment resulting in anomalous >>plasma discharge during light water electrolysis with a tungsten cathode. >>If anyone has any hints or suggestions to offer, or tales to tell on this >>topic, I am all ears! >> >>Thanks! >> >>--Vinny >>Vinny Pinto >>vinny@mindspring.com > >Hi Vinny, > >That's a pretty cool little device, actually. If you are going to do >calorimetry on it, I would suggest looking at Scott Little's efforts on the >Vortex Group. If you need the URL, let me know. After that, I would look >at what Jed Rothwell has made available on his webspace, and compare the two >configurations. I would strongly suggest putting the recombiner beads into >the cell itself, as Mizuno has done, and then doing the calorimetry. > >Good Luck! > >Knuke >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > Vinny Pinto vinny@mindspring.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 19:38:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27293; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:37:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:37:43 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20000426023923.00884784@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: vinny@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:39:23 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Vinny Pinto Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis with Tungsten Cathode Resent-Message-ID: <"6UT1z2.0.Mg6.sPb1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael: My second note tonite -- a postscript! I just wanted to mention that, in myrecent web search on this topic, I came across several very good, solid (in my opinion) messages written by you in threads on mailing lists on that topic. In fact, when I get to rereadthem, I may have questions for you! Thanks again! --Vinny >Hi Vinny, > >That's a pretty cool little device, actually. If you are going to do >calorimetry on it, I would suggest looking at Scott Little's efforts on the >Vortex Group. If you need the URL, let me know. After that, I would look >at what Jed Rothwell has made available on his webspace, and compare the two >configurations. I would strongly suggest putting the recombiner beads into >the cell itself, as Mizuno has done, and then doing the calorimetry. > >Good Luck! > >Knuke >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > Vinny Pinto vinny@mindspring.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 06:34:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA19222; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:33:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:33:47 -0700 Message-ID: <20000426133338.1969.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:33:38 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: TEC webpage updated. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"zkvWX1.0.Bi4.w0l1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Almost all the links are fixed now. Windows Media Player of MWO (Multiple Wave Oscillations) can be viewed on second link. Needle Glow Discharge is linked to second page. Fourth page is entitled Hillbilly Scope Observations and shows possible analomies the recording instrument recieves while recording a scalar event. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 06:41:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22270; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:40:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:40:46 -0700 Message-ID: <20000426134105.13697.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:41:05 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: TEC webpage updated/forgot the link To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"veZmi1.0.tR5.U7l1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/Homepage.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 07:12:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA01015; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:12:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:12:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3906F894.7612E187@harti.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:09:24 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Finsrud device Internet Live Demo ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WT5SZ1.0.iF.Nbl1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, maybe someone living near Oslo can contact Mr. Finsrud and convince him to do a LIVE Internet Video demo of his device ? Let me know. I could offer a RealVideo server on a big backbone for stream reflector transmission for a few days... Let me know, if you live near him and I will help you set it up via the Internet ! I have xxxed out his phone number, so he will not get too many spam calls. Email me and I will email you the phone numbers privately. Thanks a lot ! Best regards, Stefan. -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: Re: Finsrud device Datum: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:18:00 +0200 Von: "Svein Utne" Rückantwort: "Svein Utne" Firma: M.Soft Object Oriented Software AS An: "Stefan Hartmann" Finsrud is very busy, and he works most of the night, but he can be reached at +47 649 3xxxx after 16:00 or by fax: +47 649 3xxxx. He is working on several new projects, but they are not a replica of his working model, but something new. Finsrud is not on the Internet, so I think it will be very difficult for him to have it "Live on Internet". If someone will do all the work and lend him the equipment, I got the impression that Finsrud would be happy for the publicity, so I think he would approve something like this. I am 500 km away, but Oslo is very close. So if we could find some enthusiasts in Oslo, it might be possible to do. Yours sincerely Svein Utne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Hartmann" To: "Svein Utne" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 12:58 AM Subject: Re: Finsrud device > Maybe Finsrud can do a Live Internet > broadcast transmission of his > device running at least for a few days, > so everbody can have a look to it via streaming > video on the Internet ? > > > Do you have Finsrud´s telephone number ?? > > Can he speak english ? > > Maybe you can convince him to do this ? > > It is too bad it is not further known this > device ! It should be noted around the world ! > > Did he already try to build a bigger unit ? > > Regards, Stefan. > > > Svein Utne schrieb: > > > > Dear Mr. Hartmann > > > > I will see what I can do with the video. > > It is Frode Olsen that is running the Web, so I will send him a copy of your letter, and I think he will try to improve this video. > > I did not ask him about the glue, but if I know more about it, I will inform you. > > > > Yours sincerely > > Svein Utne > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stefan Hartmann" > > To: "Svein Utne" > > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 4:15 PM > > Subject: Re: Finsrud device > > > > Dear Mr. Utne, > > thanks a lot for the comilation > > of all the Finsrud material and your new > > video tape ! > > > > Maybe you still can convert your video tape with Microsoft Windows > > Media Tools to MPEG-4 V3 ASF with Windows Media Audio Codec V2.0 > > with 320x240 and 25 frames/sec at datarates of about 30 KBytes/sec > > it gives very good results ! > > > > Please don´t use more than 16 Kbits/sec (2 Kbytes/sec) for the > > Audio, > > otherwise the video will be choppy on lower speed PCs ! > > > > Here you get the tools for free : > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmedia > > > > This way you can even make a longer movie ! > > > > Please try to include the scenes, which show the details > > of the machine. > > > > I heard from Mr. Hauser, that Finsrud had problems with the glue > > that holds the permanent magnets in his footer stand. > > if this glue dries out, then the machine comes to a still stand > > after a month or 2. Has he solved this problem in the meantime ? > > > > But surely also 1 or 2 months of contineous operation is incredable ! > > > > Regards, Stefan. > > --- In jlnlabs@egroups.com, "Svein Utne" wrote: > > > Please loo at: > > > http://sites.netscape.net/frodegolsen/fe/fe_device.html > > > And read my report: > > > http://sites.netscape.net/frodegolsen/finsrud/finsr_u_eng1.html > > > > > > I had a chance to film the device and to interview Finsrud in > > > January 2000. > > > > > > Yours sincerely > > > Svein Utne > > > > > > --- In jlnlabs@egroups.com, "Ben Thomas" wrote: > > > > Did a quick search. Finsrud info is: > > > > > > > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/finsrud.htm > > > > > > > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/finsrud2.txt > > > > > > > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/finsrud3.txt > > > > > > > > Any new information or ideas anyone? > > > > > > > > Ben K4ZEP > > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 07:31:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06026; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:31:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:31:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3906FCE4.17694B98@harti.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:27:48 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: [Fwd: Finsrud device + Internet broadcast] X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xV3w32.0.3U1.esl1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Stefan Hartmann. 26.04-2000 Here is the contact information for the Sculpturer, painter and inventor Reidar Finsrud: ------------------------------------------------- Reidar Finsrud 1440 Drøbak Fax: +47 649xxxxx Phone: +47 649xxxxxxxx (at the lab / gallery) ------------------------------------------------- Yes, he speaks English. I will try to get him to agree to put a WEB-Cam in his lab, sending pictures continously of the device running. I think this is a really good idea! Finsrud does not like to be forced into any additional work to accomplish this. We must volentire all the necessary work and hardware (Camera + PC), and do the installing. It is possible that Tom Ringstad (fellow FE experimenter living in Oslo) can do this for us. WEB-Cameras is about 900,- Nok in Norway (216,- DEM). We can almost certainly borrow the PC. If you call Finsrud, mention my name (xxxxxxxxxxx). He knows me. Also, I will try to convert the video that Svein Utne made to the format you mentioned. The original sample from the VHS video is of excelent quality, but VERY large (.AVI uncompressed). Finsrud does not want to build a larger replica of this machine. The reason is that it has such a low output power (ca. 1.13 Watts). That means a 4 meter tall machine would only give 11,3 Watts... He has tried to build other PM machines, amoung others the JOHNSON PM machine. I don't think he has had any success. Remember, it took him 12 years to build AND fine-tune this machine... Best Regards, xxxxxxx From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 07:58:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA18061; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:58:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:58:19 -0700 Message-ID: <30804052.956761065102.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:57:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Tilga To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Barium Titinate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 38.26.84.224 Resent-Message-ID: <"uUSnW1.0.6Q4.AGm1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The "neurophone" circuit in GP Flanagan's second patent[3,647,970] for the 'neurophone' used a barium titanite contactless electrode enclosed in a cast epoxy plexiglass body. There were two of these contactless electrodes, they used shielded cable going back to a typical 1/4 inch headphone jack. Does anyone know where I could obtain these electrodes? The device used time domain modulation of a series to pulses to convey audio intelligence, and only a few AA penlight cells to run, not the high Tesla voltages and ultra low amperage of the first patent.[3,393,279] Through my relatives in what was the USSR, i have English translation of paper on so called 'Sergeyev Detector', an identical electrode used by Russians to moniter ultraweak magnetic/electrostatic fields around human body in late 1960's. My impression is that this electrode could also be used for research in physics as detector of these types of fields, and might be commercially sold to a select group for this. Does anyone know where such an electrode may be obtained-I would like to obtain another one and endeavour to duplicate the Flanagan "neurophone" experiments using the later patent as a circuit model. felis catus a.k.a. geoffrey tilga catusfelis@excite.com 4/26/2000 On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:17:49 -0700, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > Does anyone know exactly of what elements warm blooded animals like humans > are made of, and what are the proportions? Especially iron to carbon? > Anna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 3:20 PM > Subject: Re: Barium Titinate > > > > Mike Johnston wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, > > > In reference to the Barium Titinate in the Chemtrails I looked it up > > > and found the following information; > > > barium is an alkaline-earth metal and as all other members of it's > > > group, can liberate H2 from H2O by the following reaction- > > > Ba(s)+2H2O-->M++ + H2(g) + 2OH- > > > This is just from reacting with water. > > > Titanium on the other hand also reacts with H2O to liberate H2(g) in > > > it's +3 state it is a better reduving agent than h2 and will react with > > > water to liberate H2. > > > MJ > > > > Barium Titanate is a salt, and thus except for dissolving, undergoes no > > reaction at all with water... > > Barium Titanate is BaTiO3, Ti is in it's 4+ oxidation state. > > > > It's pretty innocous to humans. Although soluble Barium salts are > > poisonous, Barium Titanate is insoluble. They use insoluble barium > > salts, such as BaS04, for contrast agents in gastro intestinal X-rays. > > You get drink a glass of it. > > > > It's also shock white. Maybe they're trying to increase the albedo of > > the atmosphere and stop global warming? ;) > > > > > > Daniel Joyce > > > _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 09:08:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA07624; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:07:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:07:32 -0700 From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: RE: Barium Titinate Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:07:01 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <30804052.956761065102.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"UhYKQ1.0.1t1.3Hn1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Felis! Long time no talk to! I would be very interested in getting a copy of the Sergeyev detector article. I have been looking for details on this for more than 10 years, since reading about it in a book on Kirlian Photography. As you may know, various kinds of detectors of variously described energies, based on the properties of high-K dielectrics, have been developed by Gallimore, Hodowanec, Oldfield, Ash, Davidson and others. The energies being described as "Rhysmonic vibrations", high frequency gravitational radiation, biofields, radionic fields, etc, etc. The problem with these detectors is not their sensitivity-- all will show marked daily changes in C for instance-- but their susceptibility to temperature changes and electromagnetic noise. Thanks for your help, Fred Epps Through my > relatives in > what was the USSR, i have English translation of paper on so called > 'Sergeyev Detector', an identical electrode used by Russians to moniter > ultraweak magnetic/electrostatic fields around human body in > late 1960's. > My impression is that this electrode could also be used for research in > physics as detector of these types of fields, and might be > commercially sold > to a select group for this. Does anyone know where such an > electrode may be > obtained-I would like to obtain another one and endeavour to > duplicate the > Flanagan "neurophone" experiments using the later patent as a > circuit model. > > felis catus a.k.a. geoffrey tilga > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 10:36:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25720; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:35:38 -0700 (PDT) From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Barium Titinate Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:35:50 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39082494.313734316@mail.midiowa.net> References: <30804052.956761065102.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> In-Reply-To: <30804052.956761065102.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id KAA25631 Resent-Message-ID: <"PcmwO3.0.YH6.aZo1v"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Geoff, On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:57:45 -0700 (PDT), Geoffrey Tilga wrote: >The "neurophone" circuit in GP Flanagan's second patent[3,647,970] for the >'neurophone' used a barium titanite contactless electrode enclosed in a >cast epoxy plexiglass body. There were two of these contactless electrodes, >they used shielded cable going back to a typical 1/4 inch headphone jack. >Does anyone know where I could obtain these electrodes? I may be wrong on this, but I recall reading that the "piezo" transducers in ultrasonic humidifiers (and maybe even the Radio Shack low voltage beepers) are Barium Titanate. >From the Encyclopaedia Brittanica: ****************************************************** The phenomenon of electric capacitance is described in some detail in electricity: Electrostatics: Capacitance. In that article it is explained that low electric conductivity is a factor of the chemical bonds that form a material. In dielectrics, unlike in conductive materials such as metals, the strong ionic and covalent bonds holding the atoms together do not leave electrons free to travel through the material under the influence of an electric field. Instead, the material becomes electrically polarized, its internal positive and negative charges separating somewhat and aligning parallel to the axis of the electric field. When employed in a capacitor, this polarization acts to reduce the strength of the electric field maintained between the electrodes, which in turn raises the amount of charge that can be stored. Most ceramic capacitor dielectrics are made of barium titanate (BaTiO3) and related perovskite compounds. As is pointed out in the article ceramic composition and properties, perovskite ceramics have a face-centred cubic (fcc) crystal structure. In the case of BaTiO3, at high temperatures (above approximately 120º C, or 250º F) the crystal structure consists of a tetravalent titanium ion (Ti4+) sitting at the centre of a cube with the oxygen ions (O2-) on the faces and the divalent barium ions (Ba2+) at the corners. Below 120º C, however, a transition occurs. As is shown in Figure 1[see URL, below], the Ba2+ and O2- ions shift from their cubic positions, and the Ti4+ ion shifts away from the cube centre. A permanent dipole results, and the symmetry of the atomic structure is no longer cubic (all axes identical) but rather tetragonal (the vertical axis different from the two horizontal axes). There is a permanent concentration of positive and negative charges toward opposite poles of the vertical axis. This spontaneous polarization is known as ferroelectricity; the temperature below which the polarity is exhibited is called the Curie point. Ferroelectricity is the key to the utility of BaTiO3 as a dielectric material. http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/2/0,5716,114522%2B2,00.html ****************************************************** You might also be interested in looking at: http://www.ndt.net/article/platte2/platte2.htm -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 13:33:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31230; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:31:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:31:32 -0700 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:51:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis with Tungsten Cathode Message-ID: <20000426.162657.-395113.2.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-9,12-14,22-26 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"LIgEn1.0.pd7.X8r1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:06:51 -0400 Vinny Pinto writes: > I'm new to the list, and a lot of my "fringe" tinkering so far has > been in the areas of: ... > quantitative and qualitative measurement of negative hydrogen ion > at STP (standard temperatures and pressures) > nutritive effects of negative hydrogen ion [snip] How is the hydride ion (H-, "negative hydrogen ion") provide any sort of nutrition? The reaction of metal hydrides with water is very vigorous, producing the hydroxide ion OH- and hydrogen gas: CaH2 + 2 H2O ----> Ca++ + 2 OH- + 2 H2 (g) NaH + H2O ----> Na+ + OH- + H2 (g) The reason for this is that H- cannot exist as such in water. It hydrolyses to OH- and H2. It would seem, then, that the hydride would react with the water present in the body. If it did this in the stomach, it seems to me that it would produce OH- and H2, by the reactions above, and then the OH- would be neutralized by stomach acid. If there was an excess of OH-, it might get into the bloodstream. Blood is buffered, but mainly against addition of acid. I really am curious to know how hydrides can possibly do anything but harm. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 18:26:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA28668; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:24:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:24:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: kbrown@tnc.ab.ca Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200004261736.KAA25987@mx2.eskimo.com> References: <200004261736.KAA25987@mx2.eskimo.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:16:25 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"LKA333.0.r_6.NRv1v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would like to know more about the article. Any possibility of uploading it? Thx. Ken >------------------------------ >Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:36:43 -0400 >From: Vinny Pinto >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis > with Tungsten Cathode ><> >Hi Michael: > >Thanks for your reply! I very much appreciate your comments and feedback. >I just found both of those pages this past weekend in a search on the topic. >I also just received the 1950 Jnl. of Electrochemistry article on anomalous >anode/ cathode behavior in the mail today. > >--Vinny From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 27 02:12:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA30728; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:12:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:12:16 -0700 Message-ID: <00ad01bfb028$117abca0$6491fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , , , "energy21" , , "kroniatalk" , "MILLENNIUM PROJECT" , Subject: Fw: Universe proven flat Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:05:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"zLVHP3.0.1W7.lH02v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fascinating news. Anna > [forwarded by Varda Ullman Novick. JK] > > BBC > Wednesday, 26 April, 2000, 19:59 GMT 20:59 UK > > A high-flying balloon which soared over Antarctica has answered one of > cosmology's greatest questions by revealing that the universe is "flat". > > To astronomers, flat means that the usual rules of geometry are observed - > light travels in straight lines, not curves. But since Albert Einstein > proposed that the universe was "curved", the debate has been open. > > Scientific opinion has moved towards a flat universe and the latest data > confirm this with greater certainty than ever before. > > Another result of the study is the prediction that the universe will > eventually stop expanding from the Big Bang, but will not collapse into a > "Big Crunch". > > "It's a tremendously exciting result - and one that will mean rewriting > the text books on the history of the universe," said one of the research > team, Professor Peter Ade at Queen Mary College, University of London. > > Faint heat > > The new information is an exquisitely accurate map of the very > faint afterglow of heat left behind by the Big Bang. This is called the > Cosmic Microwave Background and is equivalent to the tiny warmth given off > by something just a few degrees above absolute zero, -273 degC. > > Tiny temperature variations in the CMB, just 0.1% at most, allow > scientists to test different models of how the Universe began and > expanded. > > The map was made by an international team led by Paulo de Bernardis of the > University of Rome La Sapienza. He said: "It's really exciting to be able > to see some of the fundamental structures of the Universe in their > embryonic state. > > The achievement, he said, was distinguishing the CMB from other > interference: "The light we have detected has travelled across the entire > Universe and we are perfectly able to distinguish it from the light > generated in our own galaxy." > > Sky high boomerang > > The project to map the CMB was called Boomerang > (Balloon Observations of Millimetric Extragalactic Radiation and > Geophysics). > > The measurements were made using a very sensitive telescope suspended from > a balloon 40,000 metres (131,000 feet) above Antarctica. The instrument > flew around the frozen continent between 29 December 1998 and 8 January > 1999. > > It has taken since then to process the one billion measurements. The > calculations alone would have taken six years to complete if run on a > desktop computer. On the Cray T3E supercomputer at the Lawrence Berkeley > National Laboratory, US, they took less than three weeks. > > The fundamental cosmic parameters derived from the work are accurate to > within just a few percent. > > The research is published in the journal Nature and in an accompanying > commentary, Wayne Hu, of the US School of Natural Sciences, New Jersey, > said: "The Boomerang result supports a flat Universe. A perfectly flat > Universe will remain at the critical density, because there is not enough > matter to make it recollapse in a 'Big Crunch'." > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 27 08:20:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06689; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 08:19:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 08:19:33 -0700 Message-ID: <003f01bfb05b$f74e9ca0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <200004261736.KAA25987@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:19:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"FjJhh1.0.Fe1.3g52v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone have any information on the gravity capacitor on this list on its working properties? From someone who has a working capacitor. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 27 09:46:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA02671; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:45:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:45:54 -0700 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:55:07 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <200004261736.KAA25987@mx2.eskimo.com> <003f01bfb05b$f74e9ca0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> In-Reply-To: <003f01bfb05b$f74e9ca0$7ba02ad1@americanengr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0004271258340A.22215@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id JAA02643 Resent-Message-ID: <"WQpw_.0.ef.1x62v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Sam Garza wrote: > From someone who has a working capacitor. Sam, Are you saying that you built one, and it works? What materials did you use? What plate configuration? Please tell us what it can do and how well it does it. Thanks, Charlie -- Who is Don Alphonso, and what's all this about tweezers? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 27 17:00:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA11942; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:59:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:59:19 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20000428000057.00889c64@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: vinny@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:00:57 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Vinny Pinto Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis Resent-Message-ID: <"4Bj7j3.0.Rw2.MHD2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ken: I cannot upload it, because my scanner is a pain in the butt, and frankly, I do not have the time to tinker. However, I will be happy to make a photocopy tomorrow and mail it to you, if you will send me your address at some point. This is the 1950 classic article which has been cited many times by light water OU/transmutation/plasma discharge researchers. I also have the March 2000 Nature article on the attempt by Mills of Black Power Research to sue four prominent mainstream scientific critics. Further, I have, sitting on my desk, a copy of the lengthy Mizumo article in 1998 Fusion Technology on transmutation in gold electrodes from light water electrolysis. Just tell me what you want! --Vinny At 07:16 PM 4/26/00 -0600, you wrote: >I would like to know more about the article. Any possibility of uploading it? > >Thx. > Ken > >>------------------------------ >>Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:36:43 -0400 >>From: Vinny Pinto >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis >> with Tungsten Cathode >><> >>Hi Michael: >> >>Thanks for your reply! I very much appreciate your comments and feedback. >>I just found both of those pages this past weekend in a search on the topic. >>I also just received the 1950 Jnl. of Electrochemistry article on anomalous >>anode/ cathode behavior in the mail today. >> >>--Vinny > > Vinny Pinto vinny@mindspring.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 27 17:54:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25959; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:53:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:53:44 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20000428005520.0089f548@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: vinny@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:55:20 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Vinny Pinto Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis with Tungsten Cathode Resent-Message-ID: <"NLRCX1.0.WL6.O4E2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tom: Thanks for your note. Frankly, like any of us who "tread the edge" of the extant scientific models, I sometimes wake up at 3 in the morning to hear my "editorial" or "superego" voices saying to me much what you iterated. Those same inner voices sometimes get a bit freaked out about a lot of other "fringe" things as well, such as cold transmutation, "scalar" waves, overunity, cold fusion, plasma anomalies, and etectera. Let me try to address at least a bit of what you said. However, I do not want to turn this into an argument. I am perfectly content for you to continue to believe that H- ions cannot exist for more than a femtosecond in water. I am simply a researcher (my degree in the research sciences is at the Master's level level) and a very curious human being who loves it all; I am not a missionary in search of converts to my latest hypotheses. I am also not married to my concepts or models of the moment; they are useful constructs, that is all. My own gut sense or intuition tells me that there is something very strong and valid to the contention that electrolyzed reduced water (ERW), Microhydrin, some fresh uncooked foods, some mountain spring water and glacial runoff water owe their intersting effects upon human health to the "negative hydrogen ion". I have learned to trust my intuition, very much so! That, and simply that, and perhaps my very impressive results due to consumption of ERW and Mircohydrin have led me over the past year to that body of research which you quoted from my letter. Regarding your contention that the equations seem to demand that H- would be destroyed in aqueous solution: We all know that chemical and electrochemical equations are not absolute and deterministic. Perhaps the violation most commonly cited in intro college chemistry texts is the classic violation by oxygen, during electrolysis of water, of the rote rules of "electronegaitivy by the numbers". (Basically, oxygen will not liberate at the anode anywhere near easily as formula predicts: rather, O will do anything to avoid forming gas at the anode, and therefore, lots of other substances which may be in the water get liberated by the anode first, although this often flies against the rules of electronegativity.) Nuff' said! My own suspicion, and that of some other researchers in the field, is that the H- ion reacts with water and forms a water cluster around itself almost immediately upon formation. This cluster of water molecules (some call it a clathrate) appears to then protect the H- ion while making it selectively available to some degree to certain biochemical processes (and even to some inorganic scavengers such as some simple exemplars of reactive oxygen species (ROS)). There exists a fairly solid body of evidence that it is likely that it is the H- ion and not some other entity which gives ERW and Microhydrin their unique biochemical/biophysical effects. One such example is the ability of each to regenerate NAD to NADH in vitro. Another is the (antioxidant-type) protection each offers to in vitro and in vivo cells subjected to severe ROS stressing in lab studies. However, to me, perhaps the most tantalizing evidence of the existence of the H- ion in stable yet available form is the evidence yielded by some researchers with laser photon dissociation of electrons from the ion in aqueous solution. The wavelengths used to elicit strong electron emission seem to indicate close conformance to the models in the published scientific literature which invariably ascribe an ionization potential of 0.752 eV to the H- ion. Lastly, I can think of no other candidate to explain the powerful antioxidant effects of ERW as described in several articles in the peer-reviewed scientific literature (of biochemistry). Similarly, a number of university-based studies are showing Microhydrin to exhibit the same or greater antioxidant effects, and again, I can think of no other candidate physical entity (I have explored several other possibilities, such as hydrated electron clusters, and excess electrons in water (loosely bound)) which fits the bill. As far as the possible danger of H- in biological systems: In an article in a peer-reviewed journal on ERW, Dr. Shirahata, the lead author, poses the rhetorical question (and I may paraphrase a bit, because it is near my bedtime, and I have no time to find the article!) "what better species than atomic hydrogen might there be to fight the effects in biological systems of reactvie species of atomic oxygen?" In closing, the above gives me more than enough evidence to help support my intuitive sense that this is a topic which merits deep investigation. I do not particularly want to convince you that my sense or my hypotheses are right -- in fact, I prefer that you keep your own opinion and counsel on this! However, I hope that perhaps I have given you some food for thought! in grace and peace, --Vinny At 03:51 PM 4/26/00 -0400, tgrimes1@juno.com wrote: >On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:06:51 -0400 Vinny Pinto >writes: >> I'm new to the list, and a lot of my "fringe" tinkering so far has >> been in the areas of: >... >> quantitative and qualitative measurement of negative hydrogen ion >> at STP (standard temperatures and pressures) >> nutritive effects of negative hydrogen ion >[snip] > > How is the hydride ion (H-, "negative hydrogen ion") provide any sort of >nutrition? The reaction of metal hydrides with water is very vigorous, >producing the hydroxide ion OH- and hydrogen gas: > CaH2 + 2 H2O ----> Ca++ + 2 OH- + 2 H2 (g) > NaH + H2O ----> Na+ + OH- + H2 (g) >The reason for this is that H- cannot exist as such in water. It >hydrolyses to OH- and H2. It would seem, then, that the hydride would >react with the water present in the body. If it did this in the stomach, >it seems to me that it would produce OH- and H2, by the reactions above, >and then the OH- would be neutralized by stomach acid. If there was an >excess of OH-, it might get into the bloodstream. Blood is buffered, but >mainly against addition of acid. I really am curious to know how >hydrides can possibly do anything but harm. > > -Tom Grimes > >mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com > >________________________________________________________________ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > Vinny Pinto vinny@mindspring.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 27 19:23:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14275; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:23:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001901bfb0ba$393a7040$256ad9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: Subject: Fw: motor Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:34:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFB090.4F935CA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"tOQE.0.yU3.JOF2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFB090.4F935CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert=20 To: Doug Konzen=20 Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 9:30 PM Subject: motor Hello Doug, For now, forget OU. I want you to concentrate on FE. This = is what I think Bedini, Bearden and others is wanting us experimenters = to see. Your motor is very capable of producing all the energy you need, = plus much more. I want you to use every precaution and warnings that I = advise. It can be very dangerous. Negative energy can be passing through = the motor and you will not be aware of it and get electrocuted. Your = battery needs to be covered from explosion to protect you. I have put = mine in a playmate igloo cooler for protection. I will not be = responsable for these experiments. You do them at your own risk. On your new scope set it to read DC voltage and hook it to the supply = battery. Start the motor running and watch the scope. You should see a pretty = much straight line with a few spikes up and down also showing you = voltage, this is normal. Now...start the arc at S1 which is after the = emf has come through the bridge diode. Watch your scope, what you want = to see is a gentle "s" pattern form from left to right. At the top of = the right side of the "hump" in the "s" pattern, on the right side of = the screen look for all the spikes to be pointed down, and the scope = voltage reading should NOT show anything. NOTE: No voltage reading, and = all spikes pointed down. The arc gap will determine this. Play with the = arc gap untill this happens. The scope will try to read voltage, but = cant. When you get this to happen, you may notice that the motor will = speed up. You also need a volt meter attached at the S1 bridge point = before the arc gap with the negative lead hooked to ground on the supply = battery. The voltage on the meter will read normal, about 12.65 to 13.95 = or higher. What you will not know is that your motor is producing = negative energy. This is where the battery could blow up. If you notice = the motor speeding up, be carefull. Hopefully you have that battery = contained as I warned. Take a 4- 1200uf 200 VDC caps wired in parellel = or the equivelent, and touch the positive lead from the caps to the arc = gap with the negative from the caps hooked to the ground of the supply = battery. Remove them, and test the voltage in the caps. It should be = about 120 to 180 or higher VDC. Carefull..this stuff hurts! Then take and discharge the caps and hook them in series. Hook them up = at the arc gap again and remove and test the voltage with a meter. It = should be about 700 to 800 VDC. Carefull...this is enough voltage to = kill you. What you have done is captured the negative energy that you = couldnt read on any of your meters or scope. This means that negative = energy will supply whatever the load requires up to a certain point = which I DO NOT know what is. You have to play with the arc to get the = meter to read nothing and get that "s" pattern with the spikes down. To = get a constant or fairly constant negative output, S1 must be switched = timed with the motor. Please forward this experiment to anyone who has = built this type motor and ask them to try this. Be patient. The motor = may have to run some before this happens. I'm talking 2 minutes or so. A = 1/8 inch gap or less between rotor magnets and stator coils are = required. Pulse width timing must be short. Start pulse at flush point = of magnet and cutoff at just pass end off magnet width. My magnets are = one inch across. Let me know how yours performs. Regards, Robert H. = Calloway =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFB090.4F935CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Robert =
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 9:30 PM
Subject: motor

Hello Doug,  For now, forget OU. I = want you to=20 concentrate on FE. This is what I think Bedini, Bearden and others is = wanting us=20 experimenters to see. Your motor is very capable of producing all the = energy you=20 need, plus much more. I want you to use every precaution and warnings = that I=20 advise. It can be very dangerous. Negative energy can be passing through = the=20 motor and you will not be aware of it and get electrocuted. Your battery = needs=20 to be covered from explosion to protect you. I have put mine in a = playmate igloo=20 cooler for protection. I will not be responsable
for these experiments. You do them at = your own=20 risk.
  On your new scope set it to read = DC voltage=20 and hook it to the supply battery.
Start the motor running and watch the = scope. You=20 should see a pretty much straight line with a few spikes up and down = also=20 showing you voltage, this is normal. Now...start the arc at S1 which is = after=20 the emf has come through the bridge diode. Watch your scope, what you = want to=20 see is a gentle "s" pattern form from left to right. At the top of the = right=20 side of the "hump" in the "s" pattern, on the right side of the screen = look for=20 all the spikes to be pointed down, and the scope voltage reading = should NOT=20 show anything. NOTE: No voltage reading, and all spikes pointed down. = The arc=20 gap will determine this. Play with the arc gap untill this happens. The = scope=20 will try to read voltage, but cant. When you get this to happen, you may = notice=20 that the motor will speed up. You also need a volt meter attached at the = S1=20 bridge point before the arc gap with the negative lead hooked to ground = on the=20 supply battery. The voltage on the meter will read normal, about 12.65 = to 13.95=20 or higher. What you will not know is that your motor is producing = negative=20 energy. This is where the battery could blow up. If you notice the motor = speeding up, be carefull. Hopefully you have that battery contained as I = warned. Take a 4- 1200uf  200 VDC caps wired in parellel = or the=20 equivelent, and touch the positive lead from the caps to the arc gap = with the=20 negative from the caps hooked to the ground of the supply battery. = Remove them,=20 and test the voltage in the caps. It should be about 120 to 180 or = higher VDC.=20 Carefull..this stuff hurts!
Then take and discharge the caps and = hook them in=20 series. Hook them up at the arc gap again and remove and test the = voltage=20 with a meter. It should be about 700 to 800 VDC. Carefull...this is = enough=20 voltage to kill you. What you have done is captured the negative = energy=20 that you couldnt read on any of your meters or scope. This means that = negative=20 energy will supply whatever the load requires up to a certain point = which=20 I DO NOT know what is. You have to play with the arc to get the = meter to=20 read nothing and get that "s" pattern with the spikes down. To get a = constant or=20 fairly constant negative output, S1 must be switched timed with the=20 motor.  Please forward this experiment to anyone who has built = this=20 type motor and ask them to try this. Be patient. The motor may have = to run=20 some before this happens. I'm talking 2 minutes or so. A  1/8 inch = gap or=20 less between rotor magnets and stator coils are required. Pulse width = timing=20 must be short. Start pulse at flush point of magnet and cutoff at just = pass end=20 off magnet width. My magnets are one inch = across.   Let me=20 know how yours performs. Regards, Robert H. Calloway   =
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFB090.4F935CA0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 00:32:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07231; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:30:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:30:51 -0700 Message-ID: <016d01bfb0e3$b3cec300$0201a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: "Robert" Cc: "freenrg-l" References: <001901bfb0ba$393a7040$256ad9d0@58hde> Subject: Re: motor Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:31:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_016A_01BFB0A9.073468A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"pTbwj1.0.um1.guJ2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01BFB0A9.073468A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert, Interesting motor results! Congratulations!=20 Do you have any photo's of your motor? What are you using for the = switch? Did you change from the manual to the Hall Effect transistor = switch? What is the rpm and pulse width? What is the max power output = to date? =20 Thanks again for posting your interesting design. =20 Regards, Michael Randall ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 7:34 PM Subject: Fw: motor ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert=20 To: Doug Konzen=20 Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 9:30 PM Subject: motor Hello Doug, For now, forget OU. I want you to concentrate on FE. This = is what I think Bedini, Bearden and others is wanting us=20 ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01BFB0A9.073468A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Robert,
 
Interesting motor results!  Congratulations!=20
 
Do you have any photo's of your motor?  What = are you=20 using for the switch?  Did you change from the manual to the Hall = Effect=20 transistor switch?  What is the rpm and pulse width? What is the = max power=20 output to date? 
 
Thanks again for posting your interesting = design. =20
 
Regards,  Michael Randall
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Robert
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 = 7:34=20 PM
Subject: Fw: motor

 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Robert =
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 9:30 PM
Subject: motor

Hello Doug,  For now, forget OU. = I want you=20 to concentrate on FE. This is what I think Bedini, Bearden and others = is=20 wanting us
------=_NextPart_000_016A_01BFB0A9.073468A0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 01:48:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA17474; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:47:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:47:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000428164332.0093e100@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:43:32 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Finsrud device In-Reply-To: <3906FCE4.17694B98@harti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"S3gjD.0.tG4.u0L2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > It is too bad it is not further known this > device ! It should be noted around the world ! I have often wondered why not much noise has been made about a working perpetual motion machine on public display. The main reason I would guess is that Finsrud has done so little to convince viewers that it is a true PPM and not just a work of art depicting PM. One obvious problem with the presentation is the great big brass base above which the pendulums swing. Plenty of room in there and in the central post for batteries and magnet coils. Now if the base and stand were made of say acrylic or something transparent - that would be a real demo! Stefan also wrote: >>I heard from Mr. Hauser, that Finsrud had problems with the glue >>that holds the permanent magnets in his footer stand. >>if this glue dries out, then the machine comes to a still stand >>after a month or 2. Has he solved this problem in the meantime ? I seem to remember someone writing that they had measured around the base with a magnetometer of some sort and not detected anything? This doesn't match with your statement of having magnets glued in the base? Having to replace the "glue" for the magnets in the base every month or so also sounds very suspicious. I guess I'm not surprised that almost no one believes it to be true PM, with so much room for cheating if he wanted to. I wonder if Stefan (or anyone) can say anything in support of the possibility that his device may be true PM ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 07:43:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11646; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 07:42:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 07:42:39 -0700 From: tgrimes1@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:37:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Anomalous Plasma Discharge in Light Water Electrolysis with Tungsten Cathode Message-ID: <20000428.103731.-400701.0.tgrimes1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"l3Lzb.0.tr2.VDQ2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vinny Pinto wrote: >However, I do not want to turn this >into an argument. I am perfectly content for you to continue to believe >that H- ions cannot exist for more than a femtosecond in water. Mr. Pinto, I was genuinely curious, not trying to start an argument. Thanks for the information. -Tom Grimes mailto:tgrimes1@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 17:02:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01500; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:01:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:01:43 -0700 Message-ID: <001301bfb16f$9f45c820$b36ad9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: Subject: Fw: Motor details delay Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:12:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFB145.B5AF7D60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"eBWMY1.0.LN.cPY2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFB145.B5AF7D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert=20 To: interact@Keelynet.com=20 Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 7:09 PM Subject: Motor details delay Hello all, Please be patient while I am getting all the pictures = developed. The pictures will be shown using mechanical switches, = magnetic switching, and photo switching. Also a complete summary of all = testing and details will be shown also. I am getting so many emails, in = which I am repeating myself many times. I cant keep up. After everything = is posted, maybe it will answer alot of your questions. I hope to hear = of other builders that have tried some of the experiments also. Regards, = Robert H. Calloway ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFB145.B5AF7D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Robert =
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 7:09 PM
Subject: Motor details delay

Hello all, Please be patient while I am = getting all=20 the pictures developed. The pictures will be shown using mechanical = switches,=20 magnetic switching, and photo switching. Also a complete summary of all = testing=20 and details will be shown also. I am getting so many emails, in which I = am=20 repeating myself many times. I cant keep up. After everything is posted, = maybe=20 it will answer alot of your questions. I hope to hear of other builders = that=20 have tried some of the experiments also. Regards, Robert H.=20 Calloway
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BFB145.B5AF7D60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 06:55:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32453; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:55:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:55:01 -0700 Message-ID: <00dc01bfb1e2$6e8999a0$6c8ca7ca@globalfreeway.com.au> From: "John Conran" To: References: <001901bfb0ba$393a7040$256ad9d0@58hde> <016d01bfb0e3$b3cec300$0201a8c0@m> Subject: Re: motor (how does this message have ActiveX stuff in it?) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:54:25 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BFB236.3F7D0800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"w0goe1.0.-w7.qck2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BFB236.3F7D0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I get Active X errors when I acces this E-mail message. I am using Outlook Express and have Active X controls turned off in my = browser for security reasons. How did the Active X component get into your E-mail ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael Randall=20 To: Robert=20 Cc: freenrg-l=20 Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 5:31 PM Subject: Re: motor Hi Robert, Interesting motor results! Congratulations!=20 =20 Do you have any photo's of your motor? What are you using for the = switch? Did you change from the manual to the Hall Effect transistor = switch? What is the rpm and pulse width? What is the max power output = to date? =20 Thanks again for posting your interesting design. =20 Regards, Michael Randall ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 7:34 PM Subject: Fw: motor ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Robert=20 To: Doug Konzen=20 Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 9:30 PM Subject: motor Hello Doug, For now, forget OU. I want you to concentrate on FE. = This is what I think Bedini, Bearden and others is wanting us=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BFB236.3F7D0800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I get Active X errors when I acces this = E-mail=20 message.
 
I am using Outlook Express and have = Active X=20 controls turned off in my browser for security reasons.
 
How did the Active X component get into = your=20 E-mail
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Michael=20 Randall
To: Robert
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 = 5:31=20 PM
Subject: Re: motor

Hi Robert,
 
Interesting motor results!  Congratulations!=20
 
Do you have any photo's of your motor?  What = are you=20 using for the switch?  Did you change from the manual to the Hall = Effect=20 transistor switch?  What is the rpm and pulse width? What is the = max=20 power output to date? 
 
Thanks again for posting your interesting = design. =20
 
Regards,  Michael Randall
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Robert
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, April 27, = 2000 7:34=20 PM
Subject: Fw: motor

 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: = Robert =
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 9:30 PM
Subject: motor

Hello Doug,  For now, forget = OU. I want=20 you to concentrate on FE. This is what I think Bedini, Bearden and = others is=20 wanting us =
------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BFB236.3F7D0800-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 09:33:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA28178; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:33:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:33:06 -0700 Message-ID: <006f01bfb1f8$75c4c9e0$0a00a8c0@skot> From: "skot" To: "fr" Subject: Re: motor (...ActiveX stuff... VIRUS!! ) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:32:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"o7Q3b1.0.7u6.1xm2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Conran wrote: >I get Active X errors when I access this E-mail message. >I am using Outlook Express and have Active X controls turned off in my browser for security reasons. >How did the Active X component get into your E-mail I looked at the source of the message and it is in HTML and it has several objects in it. The first one is named "3Dscr" I think for "3D Screen". I couldn't understand much of the javascript code but it includes reading and writing files and exiting windows on error. This is why the control is properly marked "not safe for scripting". It was probably designed to be executed in a controlled environment like a word processor or something. It definately does not belong in an email message. Notice, I'm sending plain text ( it's an option in Outlook Express ).... I just took a closer look at it and it is a virus ( may be ineffective on newer email clients ). It is in the signature of the email and it tries to copy itself in the signature line of the recipient ( for new outgoing messages ). And who knows what else it's trying to do. If you want to respond to Robert's message copy the text and save it in a text only format and program like notepad and then paste it back into a new message. Then delete his messages. It looks like after getting infected the first time, the next reboot it puts up the message: "Kagou-Anti-Kro$oft says not today!" and reboots Then the next boot works fine but all emails sent out infect others. It looks like as long as you got the "ActiveX Error" message you will not get infected. After I send this "Plain text message", I'm going to reboot to make sure. Robert wrote: > ... It can be very dangerous. Negative energy can be passing through the motor and you will not be aware of it and get electrocuted. Your battery needs to be covered from explosion to protect you. I have put mine in a playmate igloo cooler for protection. I will not be responsable for these experiments. You do them at your own risk. > ...What you will not know is that your motor is producing negative energy. This is where the battery could blow up. If you notice the motor speeding up, be carefull. Hopefully you have that battery contained as I warned.... >Robert H. Calloway It sounds like you're proposing "Negative energy" as a new, unknown thing. Lead acid batteries get dangerous when they are overloaded or overcharged. If the motor is over charging the battery then it will produce hydrogen. Putting it in "a playmate igloo" just makes the hydrogen build up and be more likely to ignite. Have you had one blow up or is it just getting hot? It would probably be better to run some wires and put it outside the building. The cooler can collect leaking acid but for any other condition ( heat, hydrogen, explosion ), it just makes it worse. You need to clean up your virus ( at least delete your signature ). scottb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 14:41:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27081; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:40:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:40:34 -0700 Message-ID: <006501bfb223$91b32720$0201a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: References: <006f01bfb1f8$75c4c9e0$0a00a8c0@skot> Subject: Re: motor (...ActiveX stuff... VIRUS!! ) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:40:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"T7PlA2.0.2d6.HRr2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi skot, ----- Original Message ----- From: skot To: fr Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 9:32 AM Subject: Re: motor (...ActiveX stuff... VIRUS!! ) >> > It definately does not belong in an email message. Notice, > I'm sending plain text ( it's an option in Outlook > Express )....>> Thanks for the tip. I changed my Outlook Express setting to Plain Text for replies to e-mails so this ActiveX stuff, or a virus could not happen again. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 16:21:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13305; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 16:20:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 16:20:47 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: motor (...ActiveX stuff... VIRUS!! ) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:33:55 -0400 Message-ID: <20000429233355796.AAA148@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"TEXYe1.0.oF3.Evs2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: scotb writes: >It sounds like you're proposing "Negative energy" as a new, >unknown thing. Lead acid batteries get dangerous when they >are overloaded or overcharged. If the motor is over charging >the battery then it will produce hydrogen. Putting it in "a >playmate igloo" just makes the hydrogen build up and be more >likely to ignite. Have you had one blow up or is it just >getting hot? It would probably be better to run some wires >and put it outside the building. The cooler can collect >leaking acid but for any other condition ( heat, hydrogen, >explosion ), it just makes it worse. Hi Scott, You are mostly right on this ice chest thing, but if you use the ice chest with the top off, it would help to direct any blast upwards instead of outwards. Car and marine batteries tend to go that way anyway, but not always. Of course, after the blast there is a shower of acid, so if you do think that it might blow, then you might want to wear raingear and goggles. No sense in messing up your mascara, is what I always say, and if I had a dime for every pair of pantyhose that I've ruined working with Pb acid batteries, I could buy Seattle! Knuke - I should probably stop channelling for J. Edgar Hoover.... Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 18:54:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10672; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:50:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:50:26 -0700 Message-ID: <005501bfb246$7969e0a0$0201a8c0@m> From: "Michael Randall" To: Subject: Greg Watson's e-mail update Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:50:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"CGlU42.0.ec2.Y5v2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Gregory Watson gowatson@hotmail.com asked to tell he me to tell others (SMOT purchasers) that he is not using the gowatson@ozemail.com.au email address anymore. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 00:34:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA00693; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 00:34:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 00:34:03 -0700 Message-ID: <20000430073330.85120.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [152.172.50.19] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: New form of enery ? Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 01:33:30 MDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"kwpGm.0.kA.g7-2v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << Hey folks check this site, just came accross now, I have no time to look ino it, now. Mehmet.>> here is the URL http://www.blacklightpower.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 22:06:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA07324; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:05:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:05:46 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 01:05:26 EDT Subject: test (delete) To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 102 Resent-Message-ID: <"8JsY02.0.Lo1.f2H3v"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/14897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Test (delete)