From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 1 00:09:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA04928; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:01:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:01:08 -0800 Message-ID: <37030B57.96EDC94E@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:59:51 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: A private JOE CELL colloboration References: <922927857.8942.390@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LtyBy1.0.uC1.0Vo0t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'm releasing these partial notes for public dissemination, I meant to do it a while ago on a private website but just never had the chance. There are also a good number of photos I had hoped to scan but I just haven't gotten around to it. I had hoped to trade some of our notes to Geoff Egel in exchange for material he claims to have in his possession in the hopes that working together we would reach the end mark sooner. Unfortunately Geoff never followed this up fromn his end and the trade never materialized. So I'm releasing some of the more important finds here.... not all the notes are being released for various reasons, I don't have time to get into the 'why' at the moment. However, we seem to have stumbled across some very unusual findings...some ofwhich appear to now have an explanation although at the time they simply didnt dawn on us even tho they were blatantly obvious in hindsight, however other observed phenomena we observed remains elusive and highly strange. A brief excerpt from the attached zip file follows below. Some of the names in the big file have been altered for the sake of anonymity...not that its likely necessary but just because I felt like it... My purpose here is that perhaps something small and modest might be gleaned from some of the efforts we put into this that might allow someone else out there to utilize it for positive purposes and add to this public understanding of this possible phenomenon. Or at the very least it might prove somewhat enjoyable to those lofty minds above mine to view my haphazard antics, either way, Bon appetite... ~@8^> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Following the brief message is a collection of Joe Cell related messages not seen yet) Thanks to: Garry Whitman Norm Wootan James DeMeo Michael Olson Ken Carrigan BobisHairy Matthew Redmond Queue For recently sending such wonderful contributions and insights into the possible workings of the Joe Cell. I have tried where and when possible to ask permission to redistribute these letters among the rest of the group in the hopes of helping us all along in understanding this project. In some case, I have edited some of these letters only for the reason of removing non-related and or personal notes interspersed with Joe Cell related info. -----------snip----------------------------------- Hi, sorry I didnt get back to you sooner. Enclosed herein is the final results to date of our Joe Cell project and the message thread between Garry and myself which lead to this. Introduction, After reading as much material on this cell as I could find it appeared to me that what was missing was likely analogous to the so called mysterious 'Y' factor of Reichs work. I approached Garry initially out of my concern for his well being when he first began working on the cell. I felt it important that he was warned of possible potential health risks. I applauded his early efforts and iniative and was ecstatic when he reported getting some strange anomalies...primarily what appeared to be the creation of matter within the cell. I was dismayed to find out that he stopped his initial experiments and sympathized with him on his frustration over not getting the darn engine to run. I encouraged him to continue and together we put our heads together to see what we might come up with. It was a good partnership as Garry possesed a wealth of knowledge and skills that I did not have or was not as strong in and I had some rudimenatry understanding of Orgone energy and theory and have a modest ability to visualize abstract concepts. I had strongly felt that the similiarities between Reichs orgone motor, as described in DeMeos booklet, and the Joe Cell was too close for coincedence. A third party, who will remain nameless, provided details of materials he had in his possession which had been published in Australia, on this kind of cell filled which in some blanks which had not been divulged online. After reading this info I became even more convinced or the orgone connection. This material purported that the original cell, as desrcibed online, did indeed work as indicated online but that subsequent models /versions required a 'charging vat'.... it appeared that this water was charged in similar wat that the water inside a Cloubuster was charged and it actually seemed to act as a small battery. I had a gut feeling, that..( I know this will sound corny) that the cell created some kind of sub space rupture...and had orgone rushing into it constantly in concentrated amounts, but once in the cell was 'triggered' by the electricity... the or particles became highly agitated and, trying to escape the electricity took the path of least resistance, the output hose, and then suddenly slammed into an aluminum engine block, (aluminum being highly toxic to OR) which heightened the volatile state and a sort of aetheric vortex on a horizontal axis was put into motion... the block absorbed a large amount of OR rapidly and from the block also took, from within the block, path of least resistance to get out... which I thought could well be through non-solid components such as piston chambers.... possibly causing the pistons to sustain movement once the gas was cut. Garry and I decided to move forward and work on this cell further.... Garry did the initial fabrication and I tried to supply what ever research or theory I could to help him in his efforts. After realizing nominal results, I suggested we take a different approach. I felt that if we could scaqle down this experiment and try to come up with a cheap 'table top' version that could do something ... maybe we could use the data collected from this and use it on a grander scale. Before I get into what happened, let me preface this by stating quite simply, that neither Garry or I are 'claiming' anykind of new discovery... we expect and hope that someone will be able to explain exactly what it was that we saw and put our fevered minds to rest. Until we receive such an explanation, we cant help but wonder...with a certain level of awe... if perhaps we have seen something, truly odd. RESULTS OF DESKTOP VERSION: Garry called me one night about a week and a half ago... and was extremely excited.... now you know Garry, he's a sharp dude who has a level head and is focused on the practical application of sensible and proven methods. He's not one to go off cockeyed.... or get excited over nothing.... when I talked to him on the phone, Garry was very excited and sounded..well... a bit dazed... after hearing what he had to tell...I cant say that I blame him.......... see the rest inside zip file... at: http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave/chamber.html For the record... if anyone does find any of this of interest... I'm going to say right up front its unlikely I'll have time to field any questions with decent lengthy answers... it took more time than I have currently just to get this on the website... so I would direct you to contacting any of the others with questions you might have. Did we figure out ultimately how to get the Joe Cell to work as originally claimed? No, we did not... however we did seem to run across some odd phenomena that may lead others closer to any answers behind this device. Cheers Don From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 1 00:17:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07604; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:17:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:17:35 -0800 Message-ID: <37030FC0.BFA8D16@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 00:18:40 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Radar Analomies? References: <922949587.21990.206@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T-Khm1.0.js1.Uko0t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Harvey, GREAT post!!! I heard about the US getting accused of using EMP bombs in Yugoslavia just recently! Harvey Norris wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:57:28 +0300, Sergei M.Godin wrote: > > > Hi Harvey, > > > > Can you tell me when these anomalies have appeared for the first way > that there is no heat transfer, according to an adiabatic process. Can you > personally go out of your way to make a comment on the Nicolay Zaev process > in this regard? Do you not realize the unique position these things may hold > for the future of all repressed peoples? I'd love to hear more about this also. > Sincere in the truth; > Harvey D Norris. > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 1 06:44:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13392; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:38:37 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:38:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000801be7c4c$cab6f820$a8faf0cf@default> From: "mrand@access" To: , Subject: password for joe cell file Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:34:23 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZItr_.0.8H3.cJu0t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Don, Can you send me the password for the joe cell file? Did you build the unit or have photo's of it? Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 1 06:51:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12471; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:50:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:50:34 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:50:22 -0600 (CST) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Negative resistance characteristic To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <922927857.8942.390@excite.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vNefe1.0.h23.uUu0t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Harvey Norris wrote: > >> Thanx for the excellent answers by our resident electrical engineers. Can > I venture to ask if dc induction arcs fall under this category of air borne > plasma arcs where a negative resistance characteristic also exists? The > explanation that when the magnetic field from a huge inductance is forced to > instantly collapse generates the high voltage arcing observed when a break > in the circuit is attempted seems to defy voltage laws. Does the voltage > go above its input in this situation across the actual arc? One would have > to think this is possible. HDN > Sincerly HDN > I will have to do a bit of research on it but I'd venture to guess that the answer is yes. One of the most common places to find a negative resistance curve is in a plasma discharge. This would include any sort of spark or arc. The voltage across an inductor is determined by V = L di/dt. When the current flow is disrupted, the magnetic field collapses rapidly and the di/dt becomes large, making it possible to generate very large voltages across the inductor. (Don't hold onto a belt sander plug as you connect and disconect a DC battery from it, as I did when I was about 12 years old!) The energy available is only what has been stored in the magentic fiels, minus resistance losses, hysteresis losses, etc. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 1 07:15:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA19601; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:14:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:14:33 -0800 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:09:26 EST To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Negative resistance characteristic Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"DfqPb3.0.wn4.Oru0t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 3/31/99 4:54:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, tesla4@excite.com writes: << The explanation that when the magnetic field from a huge inductance is forced to instantly collapse generates the high voltage arcing observed when a break in the circuit is attempted seems to defy voltage laws. Does the voltage go above its input in this situation across the actual arc? One would have to think this is possible. HDN Sincerly HDN >> Yes, the voltage can go many times above the input voltage as the voltage created by the field collapse is L di/dt, which has no direct relationship to the input voltage. The voltage law for an inductor though is Ri + L di/dt where R is the resistance of the inductor windings, so it does does agree with theory --just seems unlikely. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 1 13:22:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07048; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:21:34 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:21:34 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Negative resistance characteristic Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:23:02 -0500 Message-ID: <19990401212302796.AAA270@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"KO5ej.0._j1.RD-0t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9640 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Zack wrote: > >I will have to do a bit of research on it but I'd venture to guess that >the answer is yes. One of the most common places to find a negative >resistance curve is in a plasma discharge. This would include any sort of >spark or arc. > Hi Zack, If I remember correctly, the patent that I was looking at when I first saw this term was for a glow discharge device, so you might want to add that to the list. I still think that a better term could be used, but I'll have to scratch my head some more to come up with one. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 1 16:19:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13742; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:18:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:18:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199904020018.SAA03133@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Negative resistance characteristic Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:16:50 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C7UFj3.0.dM3.jp01t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Let's not forget the old poly-switch. Joe Portman ==================================== ---------- > From: Michael T Huffman > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Negative resistance characteristic > Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 3:23 PM > > Zack wrote: > > > >I will have to do a bit of research on it but I'd venture to guess that > >the answer is yes. One of the most common places to find a negative > >resistance curve is in a plasma discharge. This would include any sort of > >spark or arc. > > > Hi Zack, > > If I remember correctly, the patent that I was looking at when I > first saw this term was for a glow discharge device, so you might want to > add that to the list. I still think that a better term could be used, but > I'll have to scratch my head some more to come up with one. > > Knuke > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 1 17:09:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA30952; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:09:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:09:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199904020109.LAA26004@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-Authentication-Warning: lebunka.ion.com.au: ts2m11.the-gc.net [203.55.161.111] didn't use HELO protocol From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:39:43 Subject: Re: A private JOE CELL colloboration Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"rooIH3.0.SZ7.yY11t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Erm, what is ORGONE? On 31 Mar 99 at 23:59, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > I'm releasing these partial notes for public dissemination, I meant to > do it a while ago on a private website but just never had the chance. SNIP! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pop, sweltering away in summer Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, preffered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 17:32:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA18502; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:30:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:30:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:30:45 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Negative resistance characteristic In-Reply-To: <370bd99a.29312212@mail-hub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3Zjv5.0._W4.AzM1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > It's essentially a negative resistance to AC, not to DC. IOW there is > always a real actual positive resistance, however in increase in the > current correlates to a decrease in the voltage drop. If you plot > voltage against current, the line has a negative slope, hence the term > "negative resistance" (the slope in such a graph is the resistance). Right. Resistance is "current per volt", and if we plot a standard carbon resistor on a volts/amps graph, it looks like this: | . | . | . | . | . | . amps | . | . | . | . | . |._____________________________________ volts So, increase the volts, and the amps just follows ohm's law, increasing proportionally. On the above graph, different resistances would have different slopes (zero ohms would be a vertical line, and a horizontal line would represent an open circuit, think about it...) However, if we graph the resistance of a "nonlinear" resistor substance, we might get something like this: | | | | . . | . . | . . amps | . . . | . | . | . | . |.____________________________________________ volts In the above graph, the amps first rise as the voltage rises, but then the amps start falling when voltage is made even higher. Where the graph curves downwards... that is the so-called "negative resistance" region. However, it is not a TRUE negative resistance, in that the resistor is not generating any energy. We are still applying a positive voltage, and drawing a positive current, which means that the joules are flowing INTO the resistor. True negative resistance would be a graph where the amps dip below zero (the direction of current actually reverses.) If the amps ever go negative and the voltage does not, then the wattage also goes negative. Negative wattage means that energy is coming out of the device. One common example of a negative resistor: flashlight battery. In the above "nonlinear" graph, suppose we raise the voltage until we reach the region where the amps start decreasing. In that region, for any CHANGES in voltage, the amperes change backwards. Another way to say this: as far as AC signals are concerned, the negative slope acts like a power supply, even though we still must use a DC power supply to get us up to that part of the slope. This behavior can be very useful in electronics, because if we stick a coil/capacitor pair in series with this negative resistor... the circuit will break into oscillation! It's LIKE a free energy device, since any tiny noise signals in the coil/capacitor section will grow and grow until the AC wave becomes fairly large. But it's not really free energy at all, since a power supply is required, and the growing AC wave is really just getting energy from the DC supply. For a "negative resistor" to be a free energy device, it must have a volts/amps graph which dips below zero: | | | | | amps | | . . | . . | . . | . . |._________________________.__________________ volts . . . The above "negative resistor" would be interesting. It would not generate any energy if it was disconnected from all circuits, since it behaves like a normal resistor when the voltage is small. However, if it was connected across a battery, and the battery voltage put us into the negative-current part of the graph, then the negative resistor would reverse the current and start charging the battery! No scientist would take it seriously, since after all, it has a battery as part of its circuit. :) THe solution would be to connect the device to a pre-charged capacitor instead of a battery, then hang a tiny light bulb across it, and the light would stay on forever. About electric arcs and negative resistance: there's supposed to be a "negative resistance" region in some part of the volts/amps graph of an electric arc in air, and the early radio stations used this to generate pure high-freq radio waves. Older stations used Tesla-style pulsed supplies, and any radio receivers would pick up the sound of the pulses. A station which used a "negative resistance" electric arc to drive its antenna would not be heard at all, it would sound like a dead spot on the radio dial. A useful phenomenon, because a microphone could be used to modulate the transmitter, and voices could be sent, rather than morse code dots and dashes which sound like a Tesla coil "BRAAAAAAAT!" I think there were several ways to create the "smooth" electric arc which gives the negative-resistance effect to pump the coil/capacitor resonators. The one I'm familiar with is to use a pair of rotating wheels with carbon rims, positioned so the rims almost touch. The arc jumps between the "wheels", and because they are rotating, the carbon doesn't become hot and evaporate. Just change the spacing of the wheels until the transmitter circuit starts oscillating. No transistors or even any tubes. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 18:23:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01364; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:22:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:22:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:22:39 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Observations of Anomalous Transparency Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wYtLR.0.7L.qjN1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9644 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Forwarded from Nicholas Reiter, reit@intelliworks.net (not on freenrg-l) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 18:08:11 -0800 Observations of Anomalous Transparency: The Faile Effect 10 March 1999 Nicholas Reiter Overview: In 1997 and early 1998, Dr. S.P. Faile, a semi-retired materials research engineer and scientist, began recording observations of a curious effect witnessed by him around his home. The effect seemed to consist of occasional circumstances where common, normally opaque objects ranging from one's forearm, to sheet metal, to furniture, would appear to turn partially transparent. More distant objects seemed to be visible through these structures, even to the extent of such details as printed characters. The effect was first noticed by SPF in dimly lit work-room conditions, where he has been conducting experiments in New Energy for several years. Dr. Faile at first, in scientific fashion, evaluated whether or not the transparency effect was a specialized optical illusion. He began to doubt that this was the case, however, after many hours of painstaking viewing, and after receiving the corroboration of several other associates located away from his hometown of Cincinnati. At present it seems to be a phenomenon in search of a definition or methodology! One model would place the effect into the realm of anomalous human talent, such as clairvoyance or remote viewing. However, because other individuals, with only a minimum of technique description have been able to confirm the effect, and because a number of "real world" factors such as lighting, location, and certain material structures can greatly affect it's magnitude, it seems to more properly belong in the realm of optics, and may invoke quantum principles. Qualities of the Faile Effect: The observation of anomalous transparency seems to be possible in a very wide range of environments. The first hints of the effect were noticed in low level diffused monochromatic light, indoors. SPF would observe his right forearm, whilst moving solid metallic objects such as screwdrivers or steel rods behind it with the left hand. With proper dim lighting, and the focusing of eyes to a point in space beyond the right arm, the basic moving outline of the selected metal piece could be seen through the arm! An illusion where the mind fills in suspected detail? If observations would have remained at this "parlour trick" level, the argument might hold more merit. However, SPF was eventually able to view details of objects completely obscured by the arm, or larger structures. Transparency viewing was then moved outdoors, with surprising results. Once again, Dr. Faile repeatedly witnessed the "virtual transparency" effect, however new examples could be found with walls, boulders, fences, and tree limbs. We should note at this point that the effect described is NOT the old children's pastime of holding one's fingers out, and de-focusing the eyes, thus allowing a transparent double image to form. Technical correspondents and associates of Dr. Faile in Utah, Florida, and in several regions of Ohio were kept informed about the effect, and attempts were made by all to replicate the original observations. The conclusion arrived at was that the transparency effect COULD be discerned by others, and did seem to be related in it's magnitude to a number of factors. If one were to evaluate the appearance of the typical viewed anomalous transparency in comparison to a known arrangement of filters or optical attenuators, one would say that it is a neutral density effect, and resembles an optical transmission of perhaps 2 to 3% at most. Hints of outlines, or faint definition of regions of high contrast comprise most of the effect, although Dr. Faile has compiled a "gallery" of preferential viewing examples at his home. Some of these structure / light source combinations have been claimed by a number of visitors / volunteers to produce almost spooky levels of seemingly real transparency! The logical question which arises here is " have these effects been captured on film?" To this we answer, "apparently so..." Both Dr. Faile and NR have taken 35mm photos, in colour and BW around their respective lab work areas. In many of these shots, faint outlines and silhouettes which resemble those seen by eye SEEM to be visible! If the whole affair is an optical illusion, some sort of imaginal ray tracing, we question if this same effect would carry over to the viewing of photos. Yet on the other hand, one would think that if bright light sources such as lasers were used, anomalous transparency could be brought up to a vividly and commonly observed level. Clearly, this is not so; thus we are left with a paradox. Precedents: Partial transparency of normally opaque objects, even if very rare, should be a topic of note and discussion in the annals of Alternate Science! Yet we have been able to find very little published precedent on the effect! We have viewed a recent internet posted still photo taken near a ghost town in California, which seems to show a VERY transparent tombstone in a cemetery. Additionally, a very curious photograph published by T. Bearden dates from the 1930's, and shows a couple sitting on a park bench. However, the curiosity lies in the fact that one easily notices that the male of the couple is virtually invisible from the waist down! Dr. Bearden points out that the couple in the photo were sitting on a park bench under an old fashioned arc lamp, and hypothesizes that emissions or field effects from the lamp were inducing invisibility. We have also been told that in the Fusor experiments of Farnsworth, components made of stainless steel began to exhibit transparency. We admit that old photographs of unknown pedigree are scientifically suspect, as accidental or intentional double exposures can make people and objects look transparent. Perhaps the effect, regardless of it's origin, remains obscure because few individuals think to look for it, or even suspect it! Current Efforts: At the present time, our main objective is to catalog and document as many observations of apparent transparency as possible. We have considered a number of theoretical models for such a phenomenon, such as coherence of short to medium length wormhole pairs in the quantum foam of space. However, the Faile Effect, as we have come to call it, requires far greater definition and characterization than exists currently. Because of this, we are actively seeking scientific correspondence and data sharing with amateur or professional scientists on this matter. Specifically, we would like to hear from any other parties who have come across anomalous transparency in their research or even everyday life! Our opinion is that Faile Effect presents a genuine anomaly, perhaps a field of study in itself. It may extend into a number of alternate science topics, and seems to bridge a gap between human optical response and perceptions, and unknown physical properties. We also believe that there does exist a currently not understood factor which holds the key to the Faile Effect. Understanding and control of this factor might permit dramatic technological developments! If you, the reader, have experienced anomalous transparency, or if you are working on this topic from a theoretical angle, we encourage you to contact us! Contact may be made with: Nick Reiter 541 W. Stone St. Gibsonburg, Ohio 43431 (419) 637-2659 (evenings) e-mail: reit@intelliworks.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 18:24:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01690; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:23:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:23:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:23:47 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: "electricity" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"s0oXi3.0.JQ._kN1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > From: Michael T Huffman > wanted to write out my complete understanding of electricity works, just > to have it checked over by you guys, but then decided that that would > take a ridiculous amount of time. I know that I probably have some very > basic concepts wrong, and there are other things that I have questions > about. It'll all filter through eventually. I appreciate your time in > responding, and your helping me to understand this stuff better. Hey, did anyone see all the stuff I've added to the "electricity" section of my pages? ELECTRICITY IS NOT ENERGY http://www.amasci.com/miscon/energ1.html STATIC ELECTRICITY AND CURRENT ELECTRICITY http://www.amasci.com/miscon/curstat.html WHAT IS "ELECTRICITY" http://www.amasci.com/miscon/whatis.html ELECTRICITY MISCONCEPTIONS http://www.amasci.com/miscon/elect.html ...and all the older stuff about electric current velocity, "positive" current versus electron flow, electrostatic misconceptions, lightning, etc. : http://www.amasci.com/ele-edu.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 18:57:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11251; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:57:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:57:12 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic Compression Message-Id: <923108192.17242.767@excite.com> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 18:56:32 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.83 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"0T2ho.0.il2.7EO1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I will describe a method of magnetic compression using 4 copper magnetic coils. These each contain 20,000 winds of 23 gauge wire @ 1000 ohms. I do not know if this same method is possible using ferromagnetic coils. In any case I am quite surprised that Joseph Newman, the king of all these discoveries has made no mention of it. About 1992 I put 4 of these coils in this described formation and was able to rotate a 50 lb magnet about 450 rpm on 70 watts draw. I did not consider this significant because once a load would be attached this rpm would rapidly drop and I looked at the tremendous obstacles involved with any copper magnetic motor. I did not pursue this matter any further after that because I realized the only thing to be gained was experimental information and nothing about a motor approach was practical. At this point in time I became fascinated with Tesla's work and went on a different tangent of making huge coils and knocking out the power by accident. And as time goes by I wonder if anything at all is by accident. But this was one of them. Now the first thing one knows about Newman coils is that they work from side action which delivers a weaker force than a polar reaction between a air core coil and the magnet. So looking at the simplest model it is presumed that 2 side coils could be used instead of one to increase the force on the rotating magnet, and experiment easily shows this to be true. Now the coils I had were 13 in high and without thinking I saved until I could get 2 more without thinking. Of course one recognizes that 50% of the strongest force from the magnetic interaction of the coils is missing in rotation on this simple 2 coil side model and so the next logical progression is to make a 4 coil system in which 2 coils only turn on during that 50% period of max torque. So when the magnet rotates 90 degrees another system of two coils turns on ect. So one ends up with a box looking field coil configuration in which the 2 coils that can most effectively rotate the magnet are turned on when they are needed by the commutator. I reckon that anyone who wanted to improve newman design would first try something like this, so thats what my thinking was... Now the magnetic rotor was only 9 1/2 inch long so when the box arrangement was concieved with 13 in length coils the magnet could not be close to the coils in this arrangement. The dimensions of the coil had not been preconcieved< one gets the only thing industry will supply for the cheapest cost considerations... So an accidental experimental field design was attempted because of these monumental oversights on design where two of the coils would be turned around in which the 7 in diameter poles of the coil could face the rotating magnet along with the 13 inch sides so that the magnet could sweep by all coils in close proxity in what we might call this polar -side hybrid field coil arrangement. The very first thing that was noticed about this field coil arrangement was that when the magnet was in a position that gave torque from the side model (poles facing side coils), and the extra pole coils were turned on{ that ordinarily would act as a weak force in the same direction}; instead of these two predicted forces acting in unison a CANCELLATION force acted instead!! This showed as a magnetically dead or neutral action. So obviously the next modification made was to determine what would happen if one of these sets were then reversed in polarity. It was then found that the STRONGEST torque of all positions of the magnetic rotor than existed at the side position and NOT the polar which is what every one assumes with biblical reverance from past experience and models. In fact when the reverse application was made and the rotor was spun and the generator action imposed on the coils in series were observed on an oscilloscope it resembled a square wave much more than a sine. I would not submit such a fact if it were untrue, there would be no reason for it. For 8 years I have seen no possible application of such a field arrangement, and generally see no reason for wasting time, time that could be increasingly important in these days for other lines of thinking. What it does mean however is that a magnetic compression occurs making the side action what it is. This implies that polarity change via side coil action could be simply accomplished by shutting off the polar coils for 180 of magnet travel. I tried this but it did not rotate the magnet very well because when the pole coil fields collapse it interferes significantly with the normal side coil. Or thats just my opinion of the observed results. I hope to have the time to send this VHS tape record of operation to those I promised to see it, but I am very busy with things and will try to start making recordings of this soon. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 19:38:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22952; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:38:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:38:27 -0800 From: Runozwritu@aol.com Message-ID: <4533528b.2436e706@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:37:42 EST Subject: Re: Observations of Anomalous Transparency To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, reit@intelliworks.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 11 Reply-To: Runozwritu@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"7--qf.0.Xc5.pqO1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/2/99 9:24:58 PM EST, billb@eskimo.com writes: > reit@intelliworks.net Hello, I would like to have considerable more detail with a report of this nature. One example might be, "What was the exact nature of this 'new energy' experimentation?" If this is a factual report, why isn't enough data given to allow interested parties to attempt to reproduce the effects. Yes, I know of theoretical work which could have some bearing on this subject area, from sub-Quantum physics to Cognitive Theory. Sincerely, Runozwritu From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 19:47:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26576; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:47:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:47:32 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990402224606.00947140@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 22:46:59 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Noise In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"epApf.0.5V6.KzO1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Can somebody give me some info on noise and sound cancellation (masking?)? i think i saw something on bill's site on the noise spectrum but i can't find it anymore From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 20:42:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09683; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:41:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:41:41 -0800 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 06:45:51 +0200 Message-Id: <199904030445.GAA11065@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: Negative resistance characteristic Resent-Message-ID: <"PLbDb1.0.CN2.5mP1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 17:30 02.04.1999 -0800, Bill Beaty at freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >For a "negative resistor" to be a free energy device, it must have a >volts/amps graph which dips below zero: > > | > | > | > | > | >amps | > | . . > | . . > | . . > | . . > |._________________________.__________________ > volts . > . . > > >The above "negative resistor" would be interesting. It would not generate >any energy if it was disconnected from all circuits, since it behaves >like a normal resistor when the voltage is small. However, if it was >connected across a battery, and the battery voltage put us into the >negative-current part of the graph, then the negative resistor would >reverse the current and start charging the battery! No scientist would >take it seriously, since after all, it has a battery as part of its >circuit. :) THe solution would be to connect the device to a >pre-charged capacitor instead of a battery, then hang a tiny light bulb >across it, and the light would stay on forever. > >About electric arcs and negative resistance: there's supposed to be a >"negative resistance" region in some part of the volts/amps graph of an >electric arc in air, and the early radio stations used this to generate >pure high-freq radio waves. Older stations used Tesla-style pulsed >supplies, and any radio receivers would pick up the sound of the pulses. >A station which used a "negative resistance" electric arc to drive its >antenna would not be heard at all, it would sound like a dead spot on the >radio dial. A useful phenomenon, because a microphone could be used to >modulate the transmitter, and voices could be sent, rather than morse code >dots and dashes which sound like a Tesla coil "BRAAAAAAAT!" I think there >were several ways to create the "smooth" electric arc which gives the >negative-resistance effect to pump the coil/capacitor resonators. The one >I'm familiar with is to use a pair of rotating wheels with carbon rims, >positioned so the rims almost touch. The arc jumps between the "wheels", >and because they are rotating, the carbon doesn't become hot and >evaporate. Just change the spacing of the wheels until the transmitter >circuit starts oscillating. No transistors or even any tubes. > There exists still another possibility ! At http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm or more special http://www.overunity.de/zaev/dlgwww2.htm I described an experiment on barium-strontium ceramics by Partington et al. related to the capacitive Zaev-effect. The possibility that current flows out of the capacitance under voltage can be regarded as true negative resistance, not as differential negative resistance as cited quite oftenly here at freenrg-l. In the meantime further experimental material has been found which make the rwal negative resistance behavior more probable (even it is not proved yet for me): Piekara and Pajak reproduced the experiments made by Partington et al. and give more experimental values see A.Piekara, Z.Pajak Acta Physica Polonica Vol.XII Fasc.3-4 (1953), p.170 - 180 After charging and discharging a capacitive ceramics Bullinger et al. could observe a tiny current from the ceramics due to "relaxing" ceramics. see (Z. angew. Phys. 12 H.9 (1960) p.410-422 (only in German)) A brand new theory article relating to such phenomena is P. Reimann, R. Kawai, C. van den Broeck and P.Haenggi Europhysics Letters 45 (5) ,pp. 545-551 They calculate qualitatively general model systems of Brownian particles which are subjected to two noise sources as energy sources. One noise source is thermal, the other they do not specify, but it can be thought that the quantummechanically founded noise of the electric field (see E.G. Harris A pedestrian approach to quantum field theory Wiley 1972 ) can be used which rises with the field strength. Their model reproduces negative hysteresis and negative current. Even if Haenggi (Universittaet Augsburg Theoretische Physik URL see http://www.uni-augsburg.de and seek further) does not accept that his model violates second law (pers. communication in seminar at FU-Berlin Dec.1998) it does it because every isothermal positive electric working area violates second law see http://www.overunity.de/2ndlaw/2ndlaw.htm or http://www.overunity.de/bauer/index.html. His model is a prototype of "irreversible process mechanism in the other direction". It is clear that there exists still some distance between the theory and the application proposed here but I think the distance could be made shorter with effort and time. Sincerely Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 21:53:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA28385; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:52:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:52:59 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Negative resistance characteristic Message-Id: <923118742.21738.536@excite.com> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 21:52:22 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"A6XjS1.0.Qx6.woQ1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 06:45:51 +0200, W.D. BAUER wrote: > At 17:30 02.04.1999 -0800, Bill Beaty at freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > > >For a "negative resistor" to be a free energy device, it must have a > >volts/amps graph which dips below zero: > > > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > >amps | > > | . . > > | . . > > | . . > > | . . > > |._________________________.__________________ > > volts . > > . . > > > > > >The above "negative resistor" would be interesting. It would not generate > >any energy if it was disconnected from all circuits, since it behaves > >like a normal resistor when the voltage is small. However, if it was > >connected across a battery, and the battery voltage put us into the > >negative-current part of the graph, then the negative resistor would > >reverse the current and start charging the battery! No scientist would > >take it seriously, since after all, it has a battery as part of its > >circuit. :) THe solution would be to connect the device to a > >pre-charged capacitor instead of a battery, then hang a tiny light bulb > >across it, and the light would stay on forever. > > > >This seems rather rediculous Herr Baurer. I will look at the sites later and make comment now. My physics professor at Akron University once explained how the first rocketry in western American deserts went awry. The actual circuit control can be fine on a schematic,but when you cram components in a small space some unwanted inductive effects might take place to screw everything up.Likewise in this spirit we can understand that voltages can be made by other techniques than that of a transformer in excess of its input, but for this to reflect back to its source is practically impossible.I believe in one experiment I did this was shown to be a possibility and in this category true negative resistance as you describe had to be a factor. In this circumstance far more current arrived than could be allowed by ohms law. This manifested itself approximately a 1/4 inch arc gap through air. I have done many high voltage experiments and know the difference between a heavy amperage current and one at high voltage. This was a heavy amperage current that occurred by placing the actual arc in inductive relation to its causitive factor. This is when the same phenomenon of negative resistance begins to make sense in context with how it is created. A huge induction coil can easily create a high voltage arc. A small capacity in turn can be placed across, or parallel in a schematic , but actually in the same space where this arc will occur. Additionally this arc can be placed in the magnetic field of the coil and all of these factors are not shown on a schematic because that schematic cannot convey the additional reactions that the spatial case conveys; especially then the actual location of the arc in the space of the inductor and parallel electric field then convey additional considerations by lorentz law as a starter. Needless to say when this effect is obtained it is almost guaranteed to create havoc with the supply. The first thing it will do is burn up the input transformer if you are using one which is usually necessary. Also the input solid state meters. Also you tele and computer connected in parallel. Boy I hope they make surge suppressors to deal with this kind of thing. The intelligent thing to do in this circumstance is to have an independent generator from the power supply grid.Then the backlash might not occur as in a grounded system. I do not agree with all your assesments but will try to understand further. If I described specifically what I did to secure these effects would be a little complicated.However I did note that brown puncture marks went up the nearest cord connected in parallel to the experiment which means if it were an impotant appliance this could be costly HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 22:26:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA04914; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:26:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:26:07 -0800 Message-ID: <370598A0.774CE64A@telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 22:27:12 -0600 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: bendini References: <923118742.21738.536@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PNKvz2.0.hC1._HR1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Anyone here anything from him of late or know what his current website is? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 2 22:50:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12091; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:50:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:50:17 -0800 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Negative resistance observation Message-Id: <923122178.19181.198@excite.com> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 22:49:38 PST X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"pGWIq3.0.my2.eeR1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It is practically useless for me to report this in that it can only be duplicated by someone having a SET or two high induction air core coils that can be resonated at 60 hz. As noted before I used two ~ 56 henry coils put in series with .12 microfad so to resonate at 60 hz. The coils were 1000 ohms and the input a 440 volt transformer. Each of the coils were resonated 180 out of phase, which does not mean anything mystical, only that the directions of the series circuit to its source can be plugged in two ways, and both of these were used. Each of those magnetic fields were then placed in mutual inductance and in better methods the capacitance of each coil would then have to be recalibrated for the best voltage rise. I found a 8% difference in the needed capacitive values when this additional mutual inductance was considered. After this construction was made I took a long thick tube of water placed in a U shape and shoved the coils together to hold this tube(at the poles in mutual agreement). At the midpoint aluminum foil was placed in a small section above and below to make a small water capacity. This value was noted. The connections to this were made at the midpoints of both series resonant circuits. Additionally having beforehand determined what the frequency this effect would deliver without these modifications, a quarter wavelength length of wire was also placed in series with this capacity. Actually the amount of desired capacitance in coordination with the inductance of the 1/4 wave value could then be made by making the amount of foil placed on the tube correspond to the low inductance of that coil system. In this case 1500 ft would approximately coincide with 166,000 hz and also the derived capacity computed from the low inductance of 3 14 gauge 500 ft coils could be made to correspond by equation to reesonate at 166,000 hz by using the proper amount of foil across the tube containing water. This experiment was witnessed but is at least three years old, so a lot is from memory. I do not remember exactly if a single arc gap was used to start the process or even whether one was used. A brilliant white hissing arc similar to that of welding in ac occured. The input was 440 volts, the minimumum impedance or resistance was 500 ohms. The volume of arcing immediately began to burn the plastic on the tube. One should have needed welding glasses to observe this arc but it was not readily visible because the coils obscurred its view. The solid state amperage meter recording amperage consumption on the transformer primary DID read negative before the components were damaged and and no reading appeared at all. As one can see this is not something easily described and reproducable by others but the associated things of transient high frequency currents are usually used as an explanation. However my own opinion is that something that gives a current in excess of ohms law is not so easily explained away. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 01:42:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA32292; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:41:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:41:31 -0800 Message-ID: <001901be7db6$11b5ce80$3120c6d0@schnabel.netkonnect.net> From: "William W. Schnabel" To: Subject: The fifth element Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:40:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"NmRgX3.0.Tu7.A9U1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com For those looking for the aether: http://www.newscientist.com/ns/19990403/thefifthel.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 02:43:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA30913; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:41:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:41:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990403104736.016015d0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 05:47:36 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Mr. Zimmerman reeeeeeeds Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA30715 Resent-Message-ID: <"qKzsn3.0.lY7._0V1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I talked to Mr. Zimmerman at the U.S. Arms Control & Disarmament Agency. I asked him why he had the Commerce Department Free Energy conference cancelled. He said that such matters have nothing to do with the Commerce department and that Free Energy is a hoax. I asked him how he can be so sure Free Energy is a hoax. Mr. Zimmerman replied that he REEEEEEDS. I later learned that Mr. Zimmerman works at the MA (Multilateral Affairs) division of the ACDA and that he has security clearance for classified information. If the U.S. government has information that Free Energy is real, I submit that Mr. Zimmerman violated his security clearance regulations. I further submit that willfull dissemination of disinformation is a disclosure of classified information, the integrity of which, has been compromised. The government may be justified in neither confirming or denying something. Lying to We The People should not be tolerated in my opinion. I will look into this situation further. The only thing discouraging me is the fact that Mr. Zimmerman appears to be just a stupid kid. It looks like the government is full of stupid kids making important decisions. Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com REPORT of the COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY 1997 SENATE DOCUMENT 105-2 http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/index.html ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 4.2. General Restrictions on Access. (b) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency's control. (e) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified information have controls that: (2) ensure the integrity of the information. ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 5.7. Sanctions. (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives may have occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be taken. (b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently: (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this order or predecessor orders; (2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this order or any implementing directive; (3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of this order; ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 3.2. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure. _______________________________________________________________________________ >From "What's New?" at http://www.physicsweb.org Antarctic glaciers feel the heat [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is theoretically unstable and that the retreat could become irreversible. Many believe that such an event would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns that are sensitive to small vertical movements. These patterns provide information on the velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this was being caused by an influx of warm water from the Southern Pacific Ocean. Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of centuries. Global warming confirmed from space [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality of global warming. Now, however, calculations by Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing Systems in California have shown that small decays in the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy (Nature 394 661). Previously satellite measurements have suggested that the atmosphere was cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while ground-based instruments showed an increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand outwards, which increases the drag experienced by satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate models and explains why the satellites had seen increased cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. Humans are the cause of climate change [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and solar activity to global warming appears to have been resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with results from two leading computer models. They found that the best fit to the data occurred when this century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to have been caused mainly by mankind's output of greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse gases and changes in the sun's output. Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer models four times, each time with a different set of parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising levels of greenhouse gases. They first found that there was wide discrepancies between the output of both computer models and the experimental data in the first data set. This indicated that some mechanism was increasing the global temperature this century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming experiment), the only model that matched both simulation and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. According to Wigley: "These results provide another important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, they provide additional evidence that the models used to make projections of future climate change are realistic." ________________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 04:08:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA03131; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:08:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:08:12 -0800 From: "felis catus" To: Subject: Re: Noise Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 06:53:39 -0500 Message-ID: <01be7dc8$9d6621c0$bbdb82d1@cat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"8sdq82.0.qm.iIW1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com do you want to eliminate noise from a recording? Go to: www.syntrillium.com They have a computer assisted digital enhancement program called "Cool Edit" for IBM compatibles which will greatly cut down on backrgound noise in a recording. felis catus -----Original Message----- From: Rymel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:54 PM Subject: Noise >Can somebody give me some info on noise and sound cancellation (masking?)? >i think i saw something on bill's site on the noise spectrum but i can't >find it anymore > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 05:41:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA18602; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 05:40:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 05:40:02 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Noise Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 08:36:13 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <4.1.19990402224606.00947140@pop.mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990402224606.00947140@pop.mindspring.com> Lines: 243 Resent-Message-ID: <"DPSFX3.0.ZY4.oeX1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9656 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Can somebody give me some info on noise and sound cancellation (masking?)? >i think i saw something on bill's site on the noise spectrum... "Like diseases, noise is never eliminated, just prevented, cured, or endured, depending on its nature, seriousness, and the cost/difficulty of treating it." - From Analog-Digital Conversion Handbook, by D.H. Sheingold, Analog Devices. A update for the nineties would also be to exploit noise as in Chaos, and Exterma Processing. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Following is taken from sections of: FEDERAL STANDARD FED-STD-1037C Telecommunications: GLOSSARY OF TELECOMMUNICATION TERMS 1. SCOPE. a. This glossary provides standard definitions for the fields subsumed by the umbrella discipline of telecommunications... (188) Terms and definitions in direct support of the MIL-STD-188 series of standards and their associated military handbooks. This is not a source citation. BLACK NOISE: Noise that has a frequency spectrum of predominately zero power level over all frequencies except for a few narrow bands or spikes. Note: An example of black noise in a facsimile transmission system is the spectrum that might be obtained when scanning a black area in which there are a few random white spots. Thus, in the time domain, a few random pulses occur while scanning. BLUE NOISE: In a spectrum of frequencies, a region in which the spectral density, i.e., power per hertz, is proportional to the frequency. PINK NOISE: In acoustics, noise in which there is equal power per octave. PSEUDORANDOM NOISE: Noise that satisfies one or more of the standard tests for statistical randomness. (188) Note 1: Although it seems to lack any definite pattern, pseudorandom noise contains a sequence of pulses that repeat themselves, albeit after a long time or a long sequence of pulses. Note 2: For example, in spread-spectrum systems, modulated carrier transmissions appear as pseudorandom noise to a receiver (a) that is not locked on the transmitter frequencies or (b) that is incapable of correlating a locally generated pseudorandom code with the received signal. [The following two are relevant as they can be used to make White/Pink noise, for example see the National Semiconductor MM5437.] PSEUDORANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR: 1. A device that produces a stream of unpredictable, unbiased, and usually independent bits. 2. In cryptosystems, a random bit generator used for key generation or to start all the crypto-equipment at the same point in the key stream. PSEUDORANDOM NUMBER SEQUENCE: 1. An ordered set of numbers that has been determined by some defined arithmetic process but is effectively a random number sequence for the purpose for which it is required. 2. A sequence of numbers that satisfies one or more of the standard tests for statistical randomness. (188) Note: Although a pseudorandom number sequence appears to lack any definite pattern, it will repeat after a very long time interval or after a very long sequence of numbers. WHITE NOISE: Noise having a frequency spectrum that is continuous and uniform over a specified frequency band. (188) Note: White noise has equal power per hertz over the specified frequency band. Synonym additive white gaussian noise. ----------------------------------------------------------------- The following comes from "Noise and Operational Amplifier Circuits" by Lewis Smith, D.H. Sheingold in Analog Dialogue 3-1, reprinted in the Best of Analog Dialogue page 19 -> 31. It has all of the math that you would ever care to apply to noise calculations for the mathematically inclined. JOHNSON NOISE. Thermal agitation of electrons in the resistive portions of impedances results in the random movement of charge through those resistances, causing a voltage to appear corresponding to the instantaneous rate of charge of charge (i.e., current) multiplied by the appropriate resistance. Ideally-pure reactances are free from Johnson noise. SCHOTTKY NOISE. Shot noise aries whenever current is passed through a transistor junction. The noise is normally expressed as a current, which will, of course produce voltage drops in in impedance, such as transistor emitter resistance... FLICKER NOISE (1/f noise.) In the frequency range below 100Hz, most amplifiers exhibit another noise component that dominates over Johnson and Schottky components and becomes the chief source of error at these frequencies. Flicker noise is thought to be a result of imperfect surface conditions on the transistors... Flicker noise does not have an equal contribution at each frequency. The spectral noise density (to be defined below) of this type of noise typically exhibits a -3dB per octave slope. WHITE NOISE: In a white noise spectrum, e-sub-n [Spectral noise density] is constant as a function of frequency.... PINK NOISE: A generic term applied to ideal 1/f noise, for for which e-sub-n is exactly proportional to SQR(1/f), is PINK NOISE. [snip] 1. Pink noise contributes equal increments of RMS noise over each octave or each decade of the spectrum. Each increment with be 1.52K per decade, or 0.83K per octave, where K = e-sub-n or i-sub-n at 1 Hz. 2. Bandwidth for white noise is substantially equal to the higher frequency, if one is considering bandwidths greater than 1 decade. [snip] The following comes from "D-C Amplifier Noise Revisited Understanding, Measuring, and Testing for Random Noise A New Op-Amp Noise Fixture for Automatic Benchtop Tests with LTS-2010" by Al Ryan and Tim Scarnton in Analog Dialogue 18-1, reprinted in the Best of Analog Dialogue page 151 -> 159. It has all of the math that you would ever care to apply to noise calculations for the mathematically inclined. ..."white" noise, which may be thermal (Johnsons), or shot (Schottky); it has a constant distribution across the frequency spectrum but looks as if it is heavily oriented to the higher frequencies.... ..."pink", or "1/f", or "flicker" noise, dominated by low frequencies... "Flicker noise" or "1/f" noise, has a noise power spectral density varying inversely with frequency. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Colors of noise pseudo FAQ, version 1.3 by Joseph S. Wisniewski. Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 11:56:10 -0400 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ That email just keeps coming in. So, here's the latest rev. Thanks to the many people who pointed out the flaws in my pink and blue definitions. Thanks Kev fot the pointer to FS-1037C. Due to popular demand, I am reversing my previous stand and adding the definition of orange noise. The noises are now in spectral order (artistic license has been taken over where white, black, grey, and brown fit into a spectrum). Anyone is welcome to help fill in the gaps. We're up to three definitions of black noise. Keep them coming! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ White noise (common definition) power density is constant over a finite frequency range. AKA Johnson noise. Pink noise (common definition) power density decreases 3dB per octave with increasing frequency (density proportional to 1/f) over a finite frequency range which does not include DC. Each octave contains the same amount of power. Many point out that this is not a trivial filtering problem. AKA flicker noise. Red noise (common definition within the oceanographic field, contributed by P.J. "Josh" Rovero) (Anyone have the spectrum?) oceanic ambient noise (ie, noise distant from the sources) is often described as "red" due to the selective absorption of higher frequencies." Orange noise (anonymous contribution) (Anyone foolish enough to want the spectrum?) quasi-stationary noise with a finite power spectrum with a finite number of small bands of zero energy dispersed throughout a continuous spectrum. These bands of zero energy are centered about the frequencies of musical notes in whatever system of music is of interest. Since all in-tune musical notes are eliminated, the remaining spectrum could be said to consist of sour, citrus, or "orange" notes. Orange noise is most easily generated by a room full of primary school students equipped with plastic soprano recorders. Green noise (defined by some folks producing relaxation tapes, Mystic Moods, I believe) supposedly the background noise of the world. A really long term power spectrum averaged over several outdoor sites. Rather like pink noise with a hump added around 500Hz. (Anyone have the spectrum?) Blue noise (FS-1037C) power density increases 3dB per octave with increasing frequency (density proportional to f) over a finite frequency range. This can be good noise for dithering. Purple noise (original definition, contributed by Jon Risch) power density increases 6dB per octave with increasing frequency (density proportional to f^2) over a finite frequency range. Differentiated white noise. AKA violet noise. Grey noise (heard this one a couple of times, but can't put my finger on a source) noise subjected to a psychoacoustic equal loudness curve (such as an inverted a-weight curve) over a given range of frequencies, so that it sounds like it is equally loud at all frequencies. This would be a better definition of "white noise" than the "equal power at all frequencies" definition, since real "white light" has the power spectrum of a 5400K black body, not an equal power spectrum. Brown noise (Jon M. Risch, rbmccammon) power density decreases 6dB per octave with increasing frequency (density proportional to 1/f^2) over a frequency range which does not include DC. Is not named for a power spectrum that suggests the color brown, rather, the name is a corruption of Brownian motion. If we were going to pick a color, red might be good since pink noise lies between this noise and white noise. Unfortunately, red is already taken. AKA "random walk" or "drunkard's walk" noise. **** Three different definitions of black (silent) noise **** Black noise (contributed by Jeff Mercure, his own definition) whatever comes out of an active noise control system and cancels an existing noise, leaving the world world noise free. (The comic book character "Iron Man" used to have a "black light beam" that could darken a room like this, and popular SCI-FI has an annoying tendency to portray active noise control in this light.) Black noise (seen in the sales literature for an ultrasonic vermin repeller) power density is constant for a finite frequency range above 20kHz. Ultrasonic white noise. This black noise is like the so-called "black light" with frequencies too high to be perceived as sound, but still capable of affecting you or your surroundings. Black noise (Manfred Schroeder, "fractals, chaos, power laws," contributed by Mike Arnao) has an f ^ -beta spectrum, with beta > 2, and is characteristic of "natural and unnatural catastrophes like floods, droughts, bear markets, and various outrageous outages, such as those of electrical power." further, "Because of their black spectra, such disasters often come in clusters." -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 13:14:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17581; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:13:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:13:21 -0800 Message-ID: <002201be7e15$77285ee0$9837a8cf@hal-9000> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Tesla Antenna Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:03:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Mp1hi3.0.cI4.nHe1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I need to locate some information on the passive electrical collector/charge accumulator that Nicola Tesla designed. As I understand it, it involves a large antenna which is sunk into the earth, but insulated from ground; it self-polarizes between the atmosphere and the earth, and a large voltage gradient develops. I have a 10' metal satellite dish that I'm about to set up on a 15' heavy steel mast, sunk into a 3'x3'x6' concrete pedestal, with the base of the mast at ground level and the pedestal sunk 3' into the ground. I have some uses for the potential difference if it is significant enough. Has anyone built one? Can anyone point me to some drawings or furnish data they've collected from one? I will share data from mine in return...... /Dave David L. Wenbert The Great Power & Light Company From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 13:52:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27056; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:51:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:51:08 -0800 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Negative resistance characteristic Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:48:38 -0500 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: <2yoB3UQy8Y/A092yn@csonline.net> In-Reply-To: Lines: 11 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.27Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"7LW5t3.0.bc6.Cre1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Zack Widup wrote: >In electrical engineering, negative resistance is commonly understood to >mean a resistance curve with a negative slope. In this case, an increase in >voltage produces a decrease in current. > >Plasma tubes exhibit such curves over part of their range. You can see a graph of such a curve at: http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/scalar/aglow.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 14:18:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA31360; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:18:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:18:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:18:00 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kNpRQ3.0.pf7.SEf1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey, are there any "ball lightning" experimenters here? If the following tale is true, then this suggests a method to create BL by applying electrical pulses (or perhaps scalar/torsion energy) to a conventional light bulb. When successful, the light bulb would "light up" for awhile because of the BL stored inside. REPORT YOUR UNUSUAL PHENOMENA http://www.halcyon.com/sciclub/cgi-pvt/unusual/unusual.html Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:23:48 -0800 (PST) From: Kent Boyle Subject: Entry to Phenomena Reports (need update!) ------------------------------------------------------ > I'm so glad I found this site. This happened to me > 20 years ago (I was a 8 then). There was a storm over > my neighborhood, and I was kept awake by the noise of the > rain and the constant clapping of the thunder. > > A really loud lightning bolt shook me. I was sure it struck > the house because I saw the entire window flash white as the bolt > struck. I then saw a blue fuzzy "ball" floating outside my widow. It > floated through thw window (the screen, the glass, the entire thing)! > Then it drifted down toward the floor, keeping its luminesence, and > floated toward the dresser. When it reached the dresser, it floated up, > keeping about 2 inches away from the side of the dresser. > > Then when it got to the top, it sort of skimmed across the surface of > the dresser, into a lamp sitting on the dresser. When the the blue ball > touched the lamp, it made a audible poping sound, and I remember a quick > flash (like a camera) in the room. > > The lamp was turned off, but after the contact, it was suddenly turned > on. I walked over, and tried to flip the switch to turn it off, but > nothing happened. I tried unplugging the lamp, but it stayed on. I > stared at it for several minutes, it just stayed on. I went to get my > parents, but when I got back, the lamp has turned off again. They told > me I was just imagining things, but I am sure that it happened. I- > remember it very distinctly. Kent Boyle Greenville, SC USA - Friday, > April 02, 1999 at 04:23:48 (PST) ------------------------------------------------------ Really weird! I've read quite a bit about ball lightning, but never heard of anything like this. However, there is a possible connection between light bulbs and ball lightning. Light bulbs are full of low-pressure Argon gas. This is the same gas that's used in those "plasma globe" devices such as "eye of the storm" sold by Radio Shack stores in the USA. Perhaps the ball lightning temporarily took up residence inside the light bulb?!!! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 15:47:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA14748; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:46:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:46:35 -0800 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <6dfec01d.24380230@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:45:52 EST Subject: Re: Noise To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: PetMagic@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"bzL9x.0.Lc3.RXg1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bob: Well you've done a great job at categorizing & defining different types of noise, but neglected to answer the gentlemans initial question, which was asking about how to MASK certain types of noise to the human ear , i.e., dogs barking, airpalnes, etc. Do you have any real information on this? Anybody? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 16:44:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA31440; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:44:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:44:16 -0800 Message-Id: <199904040044.SAA12221@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:42:07 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NSQO_2.0.9h7.VNh1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com As a boy in the early forties, we had no radio, but the old blacksmith down the road did. He liked the Lone Ranger as much as me. I once went to listen and while there, a storm came up, cracked a bolt or two. He had a diamond radio wire antenna on top of the house, and the wire came through the ceiling, down the wall and over to the radio. A bolt cracked and a fireball came down that wire and followed it to the radio, which promptly disintegrated in a blinding flash. We were unhurt, but I never saw anything like it again. Joe Portman ============ ---------- > From: William Beaty > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? > Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 4:18 PM > > > > Hey, are there any "ball lightning" experimenters here? If the following > tale is true, then this suggests a method to create BL by applying > electrical pulses (or perhaps scalar/torsion energy) to a conventional > light bulb. When successful, the light bulb would "light up" for awhile > because of the BL stored inside. > > > > REPORT YOUR UNUSUAL PHENOMENA > http://www.halcyon.com/sciclub/cgi-pvt/unusual/unusual.html > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:23:48 -0800 (PST) > From: Kent Boyle > Subject: Entry to Phenomena Reports (need update!) > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > I'm so glad I found this site. This happened to me > > 20 years ago (I was a 8 then). There was a storm over > > my neighborhood, and I was kept awake by the noise of the > > rain and the constant clapping of the thunder. > > > > A really loud lightning bolt shook me. I was sure it struck > > the house because I saw the entire window flash white as the bolt > > struck. I then saw a blue fuzzy "ball" floating outside my widow. It > > floated through thw window (the screen, the glass, the entire thing)! > > Then it drifted down toward the floor, keeping its luminesence, and > > floated toward the dresser. When it reached the dresser, it floated up, > > keeping about 2 inches away from the side of the dresser. > > > > Then when it got to the top, it sort of skimmed across the surface of > > the dresser, into a lamp sitting on the dresser. When the the blue ball > > touched the lamp, it made a audible poping sound, and I remember a quick > > flash (like a camera) in the room. > > > > > The lamp was turned off, but after the contact, it was suddenly turned > > on. I walked over, and tried to flip the switch to turn it off, but > > nothing happened. I tried unplugging the lamp, but it stayed on. I > > stared at it for several minutes, it just stayed on. I went to get my > > parents, but when I got back, the lamp has turned off again. They told > > me I was just imagining things, but I am sure that it happened. I- > > remember it very distinctly. Kent Boyle Greenville, SC USA - Friday, > > April 02, 1999 at 04:23:48 (PST) > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Really weird! I've read quite a bit about ball lightning, but never heard > of anything like this. > > However, there is a possible connection between light bulbs and ball > lightning. Light bulbs are full of low-pressure Argon gas. This is the > same gas that's used in those "plasma globe" devices such as "eye of the > storm" sold by Radio Shack stores in the USA. > > Perhaps the ball lightning temporarily took up residence inside the light > bulb?!!! > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 21:22:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23562; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:20:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:20:23 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990404062644.015f48dc@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:26:44 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Mr. Zimmerman reeeeeeeds Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA23524 Resent-Message-ID: <"fqX_3.0.xl5.MQl1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:36 AM 4/3/99 -0800, you wrote: >Free energy was a reality over 100 years ago in Keely's work. Years ago >I had a retired Army friend who knew far more than he ever told me about >"things". He was in WWII and said with certainty the only way we won >that conflict was because the Allies succeeded in cutting off Germany's >fuel supply. Fuel and therefore power-to-do is a strategic element of >all government war efforts and plans. The country that has unlimited >energy has unlimited power or so the theory goes. Therefore "our" >government is duty bound to suppress free energy - or so they think. >These types of energy development will only come about (in my opinion) >when fear is abated, generally, throughout the global population. Sounds >like a big order? Yep. But then Atlin and her SVP technology is based in >Universal Love. We are gaining slowly the requisite energetics that will >eventually harken a New Mindset or Consciousness propitious (sp?) to >development and general use of Free Energy. Those who live in fear are >terrified of Love and what it means - letting go of the fear to become >defenseless in trust and faith which is a direct result of foregiveness >(ala ACIM). If the climate triggers to a different level because of global warming as postulated by the PBS 'NOVA' program titled "Warnings From The Ice", the scenario of Hitler with unlimited energy would be trivial compared with what We The People would then be facing. Besides, Hussein is probably as bad as they come and he has an energy supply that would dwarf a Free Energy generator. I fear what mother nature is capable of. Prudence would indicate that it be better to err on the side of caution and being technologically prepared rather than face the prospect of 'letting the weather fade you away' if an ice age is triggered and one is not prepared. Ice cores from the Greenland glacial sheet indicate that climate can change to a vastly different level in as little as one or two years (from the same NOVA show). The question is - is it wise to risk the small chance of a foreign country using Free Energy to conquer us in order that We The People be prepared for the likely chance of bad weather ahead. In addition, Free Energy would reverse global warming and thereby eliminate that source of problem. Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com REPORT of the COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY 1997 SENATE DOCUMENT 105-2 http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/index.html ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 4.2. General Restrictions on Access. (b) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency's control. (e) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified information have controls that: (2) ensure the integrity of the information. ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 5.7. Sanctions. (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives may have occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be taken. (b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently: (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this order or predecessor orders; (2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this order or any implementing directive; (3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of this order; ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 3.2. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure. _______________________________________________________________________________ >From "What's New?" at http://www.physicsweb.org Antarctic glaciers feel the heat [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is theoretically unstable and that the retreat could become irreversible. Many believe that such an event would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns that are sensitive to small vertical movements. These patterns provide information on the velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this was being caused by an influx of warm water from the Southern Pacific Ocean. Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of centuries. Global warming confirmed from space [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality of global warming. Now, however, calculations by Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing Systems in California have shown that small decays in the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy (Nature 394 661). Previously satellite measurements have suggested that the atmosphere was cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while ground-based instruments showed an increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand outwards, which increases the drag experienced by satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate models and explains why the satellites had seen increased cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. Humans are the cause of climate change [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and solar activity to global warming appears to have been resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with results from two leading computer models. They found that the best fit to the data occurred when this century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to have been caused mainly by mankind's output of greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse gases and changes in the sun's output. Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer models four times, each time with a different set of parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising levels of greenhouse gases. They first found that there was wide discrepancies between the output of both computer models and the experimental data in the first data set. This indicated that some mechanism was increasing the global temperature this century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming experiment), the only model that matched both simulation and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. According to Wigley: "These results provide another important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, they provide additional evidence that the models used to make projections of future climate change are realistic." ________________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 3 21:38:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA29126; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:37:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:37:27 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990404064356.01601484@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:43:56 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: more music Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA29087 Resent-Message-ID: <"XiLF93.0.p67.Lgl1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:49 PM 4/3/99 -0700, you wrote: >To clarify what i have judged as good and evil, i should make the following >statements. Anything that moves individuals toward more freedom, is good. >Evil is that which arbitrarily restricts individual freedom. Here's what I came up with (I think there was something funny in that cactus drink so long ago): GOOD is benefitting locally by working for, and increasing, the greater good. BAD is benefitting locally by working against, and at the expense of, the greater good. Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com REPORT of the COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY 1997 SENATE DOCUMENT 105-2 http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/index.html ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 4.2. General Restrictions on Access. (b) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency's control. (e) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified information have controls that: (2) ensure the integrity of the information. ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 5.7. Sanctions. (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives may have occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be taken. (b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently: (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this order or predecessor orders; (2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this order or any implementing directive; (3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of this order; ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 3.2. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure. _______________________________________________________________________________ >From "What's New?" at http://www.physicsweb.org Antarctic glaciers feel the heat [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is theoretically unstable and that the retreat could become irreversible. Many believe that such an event would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns that are sensitive to small vertical movements. These patterns provide information on the velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this was being caused by an influx of warm water from the Southern Pacific Ocean. Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of centuries. Global warming confirmed from space [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality of global warming. Now, however, calculations by Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing Systems in California have shown that small decays in the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy (Nature 394 661). Previously satellite measurements have suggested that the atmosphere was cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while ground-based instruments showed an increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand outwards, which increases the drag experienced by satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate models and explains why the satellites had seen increased cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. Humans are the cause of climate change [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and solar activity to global warming appears to have been resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with results from two leading computer models. They found that the best fit to the data occurred when this century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to have been caused mainly by mankind's output of greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse gases and changes in the sun's output. Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer models four times, each time with a different set of parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising levels of greenhouse gases. They first found that there was wide discrepancies between the output of both computer models and the experimental data in the first data set. This indicated that some mechanism was increasing the global temperature this century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming experiment), the only model that matched both simulation and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. According to Wigley: "These results provide another important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, they provide additional evidence that the models used to make projections of future climate change are realistic." ________________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 04:12:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA31854; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:11:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:11:40 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990404111816.015d5138@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 07:18:16 -0400 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Mr. Zimmerman reeeeeeeds Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id EAA31774 Resent-Message-ID: <"lppdL3.0.Xn7.fZq1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 01:30 AM 4/4/99 EST, you wrote: >This confirms FTIR standpoint in COLD FUSION; SECRET ENERGY REVOLUTION that >free energy is a private development with no reason for Government >interference.and it would be advantageous to erect a firewall between free >energy and Government. How many times does New Tech have to be slapped in >the face before it gets the message.? "They " dont want this so just ignore >"them." It would be much better if we could get the OK from 'them'. Only recently, has concrete evidence of the global warming issue surfaced (see physicsweb.org reference below). Certainly, the people causing this interference against Free Energy have not seen this data yet. Perhaps we should ask 'them' what would the weather have to do to convince these people that there is something wrong here. At any rate, this data which indicates the reality and seriousness of globalwarming, must be taken into account when determining the threat to national security from encouraging Free Energy research (see Executive Order 12958 Sec 3.2b referenced below). I'd really like to see this national security - Free Energy issue challenged under due process with respect to the latest satellite globalwarming data (with Greenland data of the one to two year extreme climate change evidence). Without this OK from 'them', I think it may be a wise decision to wait for if and when the sh*t really hits the fan. Then 'they' will be too busy dealing with natural catastrophies in their own lives to bother with a few scientist who are only trying to save themselves. Maybe Mr. Zimmerman might make a good test case after all. Perhaps we could ask Mr. Zimmerman to come up with his 'reeeeding' material that supposedly proves Free Energy is a hoax and see if it stands up in a court of law. If it doesn't, moving the conferences off of government property was an improper act. Mr. Zimmerman should then be reprimanded by his office. Now, if Mr. Zimmerman retracts and states his real motive was a national security issue, we maybe able to use EO12958 Sec3.2b to bring the said satellite globalwarming data to the appropriate agency official, and have Free Energy technology officially reclassified. Hmmm.... Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com REPORT of the COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY 1997 SENATE DOCUMENT 105-2 http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/index.html ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 4.2. General Restrictions on Access. (b) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency's control. (e) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified information have controls that: (2) ensure the integrity of the information. ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 5.7. Sanctions. (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives may have occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be taken. (b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently: (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this order or predecessor orders; (2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this order or any implementing directive; (3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of this order; ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 3.2. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure. _______________________________________________________________________________ >From "What's New?" at http://www.physicsweb.org Antarctic glaciers feel the heat [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is theoretically unstable and that the retreat could become irreversible. Many believe that such an event would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns that are sensitive to small vertical movements. These patterns provide information on the velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this was being caused by an influx of warm water from the Southern Pacific Ocean. Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of centuries. Global warming confirmed from space [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality of global warming. Now, however, calculations by Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing Systems in California have shown that small decays in the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy (Nature 394 661). Previously satellite measurements have suggested that the atmosphere was cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while ground-based instruments showed an increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand outwards, which increases the drag experienced by satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate models and explains why the satellites had seen increased cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. Humans are the cause of climate change [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and solar activity to global warming appears to have been resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with results from two leading computer models. They found that the best fit to the data occurred when this century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to have been caused mainly by mankind's output of greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse gases and changes in the sun's output. Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer models four times, each time with a different set of parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising levels of greenhouse gases. They first found that there was wide discrepancies between the output of both computer models and the experimental data in the first data set. This indicated that some mechanism was increasing the global temperature this century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming experiment), the only model that matched both simulation and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. According to Wigley: "These results provide another important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, they provide additional evidence that the models used to make projections of future climate change are realistic." ________________________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 07:56:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA24955; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990404145616.01604dd0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 10:56:16 -0400 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: An Easter Gift Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id HAA24937 Resent-Message-ID: <"HDZzm3.0.q56.jrt1t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Inventors who have had a secrecy order placed on their patent application have the right of due compensation for damages resulting from said secrecy issuance (see 35 USC Sec 183 referenced below). There is now scientific evidence that globalwarming is a fact and that it is caused by the burning of fossil fuels (see www.physicsweb.org references below). Therefore, if the secreted patent deals with Free Energy such that use of said device commercially would have stopped or reversed the globalwarming process, the agency issuing the secrecy order will also be financially responsible for property damages resulting from extreme weather conditions caused by said globalwarming effect for as long as the secrecy order is in effect. Happy Easter; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com REPORT of the COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY 1997 SENATE DOCUMENT 105-2 http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/index.html ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 4.2. General Restrictions on Access. (b) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency's control. (e) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified information have controls that: (2) ensure the integrity of the information. ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 5.7. Sanctions. (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives may have occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be taken. (b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently: (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this order or predecessor orders; (2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this order or any implementing directive; (3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of this order; ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 3.2. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure. _______________________________________________________________________________ >From "What's New?" at http://www.physicsweb.org Antarctic glaciers feel the heat [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is theoretically unstable and that the retreat could become irreversible. Many believe that such an event would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns that are sensitive to small vertical movements. These patterns provide information on the velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this was being caused by an influx of warm water from the Southern Pacific Ocean. Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of centuries. Global warming confirmed from space [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality of global warming. Now, however, calculations by Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing Systems in California have shown that small decays in the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy (Nature 394 661). Previously satellite measurements have suggested that the atmosphere was cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while ground-based instruments showed an increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand outwards, which increases the drag experienced by satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate models and explains why the satellites had seen increased cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. Humans are the cause of climate change [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and solar activity to global warming appears to have been resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with results from two leading computer models. They found that the best fit to the data occurred when this century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to have been caused mainly by mankind's output of greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse gases and changes in the sun's output. Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer models four times, each time with a different set of parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising levels of greenhouse gases. They first found that there was wide discrepancies between the output of both computer models and the experimental data in the first data set. This indicated that some mechanism was increasing the global temperature this century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming experiment), the only model that matched both simulation and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. According to Wigley: "These results provide another important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, they provide additional evidence that the models used to make projections of future climate change are realistic." ________________________________________________________________________________ http://www.bitlaw.com/source/35usc/183.html U.S. Patent Act - Patent Laws Title 35 United States Code Section 183, Right to compensation An applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, whose patent is withheld as herein provided, shall have the right, beginning at the date the applicant is notified that, except for such order, his application is otherwise in condition for allowance, or February 1, 1952, whichever is later, and ending six years after a patent is issued thereon, to apply to the head of any department or agency who caused the order to be issued for compensation for the damage caused by the order of secrecy and/or for the use of the invention by the Government, resulting from his disclosure. The right to compensation for use shall begin on the date of the first use of the invention by the Government. The head of the department or agency is authorized, upon the presentation of a claim, to enter into an agreement with the applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, in full settlement for the damage and/or use. This settlement agreement shall be conclusive for all purposes not withstanding any other provision of law to the contrary. If full settlement of the claim cannot be effected, the head of the department or agency may award and pay to such applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, a sum not exceeding 75 per centum of the sum which the head of the department or agency considers just compensation for the damage and/or use. A claimant may bring suit against the United States in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal Claims] or in the District Court of the United States for the district in which such claimant is a resident for an amount which when added to the award shall constitute just compensation for the damage and/or use of the invention by the Government. The owner of any patent issued upon an application that was subject to a secrecy order issued pursuant to section 181 of this title, who did not apply for compensation as above provided, shall have the right, after the date of issuance of such patent, to bring suit in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal Claims] for just compensation for the damage caused by reason of the order of secrecy and/or use by the Government of the invention resulting from his disclosure. The right to compensation for use shall begin on the date of the first use of the invention by the Government. In a suit under the provisions of this section the United States may avail itself of all defenses it may plead in an action under section 1498 of title 28. This section shall not confer a right of action on anyone or his successors, assigns, or legal representatives who, while in the full-time employment or service of the United States, discovered, invented, or developed the invention on which the claim is based. ____________________________________________________________________________ ______ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 08:29:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02536; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:28:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:28:56 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01be7eaf$d69de080$5d5895d1@premio> Reply-To: "Gene Marlin" From: "Gene Marlin" To: Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:28:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"V_t173.0.Xd.tKu1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Hey, are there any "ball lightning" experimenters here? If the following >tale is true, then this suggests a method to create BL by applying >electrical pulses (or perhaps scalar/torsion energy) to a conventional >light bulb. When successful, the light bulb would "light up" for awhile >because of the BL stored inside. Something I don't understand about BL is how it can pass through glass, etc., if it is a chemical phenomenon or electrochemical phenomenon. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 10:01:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30339; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:00:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:00:43 -0700 Message-ID: <002001be7ebc$5853f040$19684fc6@default> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: "electricity" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:58:19 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"CrJD93.0.yP7.xgv1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com William, Your "electricity" articles were excellent, and refreshing to (re)read clear concise definitions and examples, with construction projects to build upon the concepts. Keep up the good work! Have you thought of marketing any of the electrical devices for schools and the general public? Writing school text books? I am sure it would not only be a commercial success, but also a success in inspiring young people to study this exciting field. Future Tesla's, Faraday's, Farnsworth's,... etc. are waiting to be guided :-) Regards, Michael Randall >>> >Hey, did anyone see all the stuff I've added to the "electricity" section >of my pages? > > ELECTRICITY IS NOT ENERGY > http://www.amasci.com/miscon/energ1.html > > STATIC ELECTRICITY AND CURRENT ELECTRICITY > http://www.amasci.com/miscon/curstat.html > > WHAT IS "ELECTRICITY" > http://www.amasci.com/miscon/whatis.html > > ELECTRICITY MISCONCEPTIONS > http://www.amasci.com/miscon/elect.html > > >...and all the older stuff about electric current velocity, "positive" >current versus electron flow, electrostatic misconceptions, lightning, >etc. : > > http://www.amasci.com/ele-edu.html > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 10:38:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06912; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:36:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:36:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990404174247.0162cc50@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:42:47 -0400 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: SVP Component Source and Info Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA06627 Resent-Message-ID: <"VMKy13.0.bh1.cCw1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 08:57 AM 4/4/99 -0800, you wrote: >> I am looking for any "prefabricated" musical "tine" scales similar to the ones used by Mr. Keely as seen in all the pictures of his devices. >> >I am hopeful of establishing an expanded workshop this summer or fall >wherein I can begin producing these and other SVP type items. I do not >know of anyone producing them now. I've been thinking about the SVP 'antenna arrays' seen on Keely devices, the function of which you recently described as filters of unwanted frequencies. I imagine that the the length of each element defines the standing wave frequency which is filtered out. Anyways, V recently returned from a Computer Game Developer's Conference with (among a pile of stuff) a Logitec promotional device. It advertised the latest product. It was also vibrated by a motor spinning an eccentric weight. I then noticed that my hand sort of looked like the SVP 'antenna array' mounted at one end of the Dynasphere main shaft. I attached the vibrating gizmo to the back of my hand with rubberbands. I theorized that fingers might channel and attenuate vibrations similarly. I concluded that experimentation was necessary to test the concept. Well to make a fairly long and complex story short, I believe sympathetic vibratory resonance was successfully achieved with V's mass chord (several times!). ;) V would like to state for the record that Keely technology has already enhanced the quality of her life. :) BTW each finger feels different and the respective fingertip pressures must be varied before resonance is detected. >> also is there a means to determine the mass chord of an object, say a sort of vibratory "strobe" scope? Thank you for your time and trouble >> >There are many high-tech vibration monitoring systems on the market. >These can provide vibration information within their ranges of >operation. None are even close to determining "Chord of Mass" as used by >Keely. Maybe some day such a device could be developed. This scanning laser vibrometer can be extended to the MHz range. Is the MHz region still too low Dale? http://www.arl.psu.edu/facilities/laserviblab/laserviblab.html Regards; Dennis ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com REPORT of the COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY 1997 SENATE DOCUMENT 105-2 http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/index.html ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 4.2. General Restrictions on Access. (b) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency's control. (e) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified information have controls that: (2) ensure the integrity of the information. ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 5.7. Sanctions. (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives may have occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be taken. (b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently: (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this order or predecessor orders; (2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this order or any implementing directive; (3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of this order; ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 3.2. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure. _______________________________________________________________________________ >From "What's New?" at http://www.physicsweb.org Antarctic glaciers feel the heat [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is theoretically unstable and that the retreat could become irreversible. Many believe that such an event would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns that are sensitive to small vertical movements. These patterns provide information on the velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this was being caused by an influx of warm water from the Southern Pacific Ocean. Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of centuries. Global warming confirmed from space [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality of global warming. Now, however, calculations by Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing Systems in California have shown that small decays in the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy (Nature 394 661). Previously satellite measurements have suggested that the atmosphere was cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while ground-based instruments showed an increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand outwards, which increases the drag experienced by satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate models and explains why the satellites had seen increased cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. Humans are the cause of climate change [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and solar activity to global warming appears to have been resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with results from two leading computer models. They found that the best fit to the data occurred when this century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to have been caused mainly by mankind's output of greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse gases and changes in the sun's output. Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer models four times, each time with a different set of parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising levels of greenhouse gases. They first found that there was wide discrepancies between the output of both computer models and the experimental data in the first data set. This indicated that some mechanism was increasing the global temperature this century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming experiment), the only model that matched both simulation and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. According to Wigley: "These results provide another important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, they provide additional evidence that the models used to make projections of future climate change are realistic." ________________________________________________________________________________ http://www.bitlaw.com/source/35usc/183.html U.S. Patent Act - Patent Laws Title 35 United States Code Section 183, Right to compensation An applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, whose patent is withheld as herein provided, shall have the right, beginning at the date the applicant is notified that, except for such order, his application is otherwise in condition for allowance, or February 1, 1952, whichever is later, and ending six years after a patent is issued thereon, to apply to the head of any department or agency who caused the order to be issued for compensation for the damage caused by the order of secrecy and/or for the use of the invention by the Government, resulting from his disclosure. The right to compensation for use shall begin on the date of the first use of the invention by the Government. The head of the department or agency is authorized, upon the presentation of a claim, to enter into an agreement with the applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, in full settlement for the damage and/or use. This settlement agreement shall be conclusive for all purposes not withstanding any other provision of law to the contrary. If full settlement of the claim cannot be effected, the head of the department or agency may award and pay to such applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, a sum not exceeding 75 per centum of the sum which the head of the department or agency considers just compensation for the damage and/or use. A claimant may bring suit against the United States in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal Claims] or in the District Court of the United States for the district in which such claimant is a resident for an amount which when added to the award shall constitute just compensation for the damage and/or use of the invention by the Government. The owner of any patent issued upon an application that was subject to a secrecy order issued pursuant to section 181 of this title, who did not apply for compensation as above provided, shall have the right, after the date of issuance of such patent, to bring suit in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal Claims] for just compensation for the damage caused by reason of the order of secrecy and/or use by the Government of the invention resulting from his disclosure. The right to compensation for use shall begin on the date of the first use of the invention by the Government. In a suit under the provisions of this section the United States may avail itself of all defenses it may plead in an action under section 1498 of title 28. This section shall not confer a right of action on anyone or his successors, assigns, or legal representatives who, while in the full-time employment or service of the United States, discovered, invented, or developed the invention on which the claim is based. ____________________________________________________________________________ ______ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 12:43:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19193; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:42:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:42:57 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 09:40:40 -1000 Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Gene Marlin , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904041559.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"1Crfg1.0.ih4.13y1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gene - >Something I don't understand about BL is how it can pass through glass, >etc., if it is a chemical phenomenon or electrochemical phenomenon. That's always bothered me too. Frankly I think it's simply impossible if it's chemical or electrochemically based. After reading Apsden and spending some time on vortex-c, it's becoming easier for me to comprehend a sort of physically real 'aether' which can be structured in ways that can interact strongly with some electrical phenomena, yet the 'substance' underlying that structure might not usually react strongly with ordinary matter like walls and windows. The apparent contradiction, i.e. ordinary neutral matter being highly electromagnetic in nature, is dealt with by issues of resonance and/or spin. And yes, I'm still waiting for some: a) solid experimental evidence which demonstrates this, and: b) concise theory which describes it from known and trusted first principles. Neither seems to be readily at hand, but there sure are a lot of tantalizing hints in favor of the basic premise. I'm confident the notion that there might be an aether, meaning a structurable vacuum, isn't such a foreign idea to most readers on this list. And while I'm also not comfortable with simply waving the latest hot idea in fringe science at every strange phenomena that presents itself, doesn't structured electrical phenomena walking through walls (even aluminum airplane hulls!) seen to be deserving of such a stretch? The disdain BL shows for ordinary matter has to be an important clue. If we want to create and confine it successfully to tap its energy, we will probably fail if we try to use ordinary matter, electricity, or magnetism in a conventional way aimed at confining the attention-getting energetic phenomena which itself is probably just a secondary effect. In other words, that's maybe a bit like trying to capture and maintain fire by grasping at its flames. Go gather some wood! [suggested sign for the wall above mad-scientists' workbenches: "It's the aether, stupid!"] So perhaps it's the creation of structure in the underlying vacuum which should be first addressed, and the electrical phenomena - broken symmetry in the ZPF or whatever causes it - might naturally follow. What we need to know is how to create, confine, and maintain a tight smoke-ring of aether, and how to do it for less energy than we can tap from the broken symmetry or whatever. Even if it doesn't turn out to be a net energy source, it could be a pretty neat way to confine a plasma, which of course at high enough temperature can be made to produce energy by more conventional, if not desirable, means. I still think "free energy" implies *clean* energy, but with human civilization in the state it is, I'll take what I can get. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 13:21:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31707; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:20:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:20:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199904042020.PAA26427@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:18:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cBTam2.0.Kl7.bcy1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Glass is not totally dielectric. It is amorphous and has flaws. If the voltage is high enough, an arc will pass through, especially old glass. Joe Portman ========= ---------- > From: Rick Monteverde > To: Gene Marlin ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? > Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:40 PM > > Gene - > > > >Something I don't understand about BL is how it can pass through glass, > >etc., if it is a chemical phenomenon or electrochemical phenomenon. > > > That's always bothered me too. Frankly I think it's simply impossible if > it's chemical or electrochemically based. > > After reading Apsden and spending some time on vortex-c, it's becoming > easier for me to comprehend a sort of physically real 'aether' which can be > structured in ways that can interact strongly with some electrical > phenomena, yet the 'substance' underlying that structure might not usually > react strongly with ordinary matter like walls and windows. The apparent > contradiction, i.e. ordinary neutral matter being highly electromagnetic in > nature, is dealt with by issues of resonance and/or spin. And yes, I'm still > waiting for some: a) solid experimental evidence which demonstrates this, > and: b) concise theory which describes it from known and trusted first > principles. Neither seems to be readily at hand, but there sure are a lot of > tantalizing hints in favor of the basic premise. I'm confident the notion > that there might be an aether, meaning a structurable vacuum, isn't such a > foreign idea to most readers on this list. And while I'm also not > comfortable with simply waving the latest hot idea in fringe science at > every strange phenomena that presents itself, doesn't structured electrical > phenomena walking through walls (even aluminum airplane hulls!) seen to be > deserving of such a stretch? > > The disdain BL shows for ordinary matter has to be an important clue. If we > want to create and confine it successfully to tap its energy, we will > probably fail if we try to use ordinary matter, electricity, or magnetism in > a conventional way aimed at confining the attention-getting energetic > phenomena which itself is probably just a secondary effect. In other words, > that's maybe a bit like trying to capture and maintain fire by grasping at > its flames. Go gather some wood! [suggested sign for the wall above > mad-scientists' workbenches: "It's the aether, stupid!"] > > So perhaps it's the creation of structure in the underlying vacuum which > should be first addressed, and the electrical phenomena - broken symmetry > in the ZPF or whatever causes it - might naturally follow. What we need to > know is how to create, confine, and maintain a tight smoke-ring of aether, > and how to do it for less energy than we can tap from the broken symmetry or > whatever. Even if it doesn't turn out to be a net energy source, it could be > a pretty neat way to confine a plasma, which of course at high enough > temperature can be made to produce energy by more conventional, if not > desirable, means. I still think "free energy" implies *clean* energy, but > with human civilization in the state it is, I'll take what I can get. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 13:38:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02036; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:29:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:29:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199904042029.PAA20828@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: An Easter Gift Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:27:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rzzhy3.0.jV.vky1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Termites dispose of, each year, all dead trees and plants of the world. This has gone on for all time and amounts to thousands of times more gases than man's burning. What is hurting the most is the destruction by man of the forests and biosphere which convert all this back to good air. Carbon dioxide is most responsible for retaining heat. Were it not for this, the earth would cool down much faster. Joe Portman...a lifelong tree planter. =========================== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: Recipient list suppressed > Subject: An Easter Gift > Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 9:56 AM > > Inventors who have had a secrecy order placed on their patent application > have the right of due compensation for damages resulting from said secrecy > issuance (see 35 USC Sec 183 referenced below). There is now scientific > evidence that globalwarming is a fact and that it is caused by the burning > of fossil fuels (see www.physicsweb.org references below). Therefore, if the > secreted patent deals with Free Energy such that use of said device > commercially would have stopped or reversed the globalwarming process, the > agency issuing the secrecy order will also be financially responsible for > property damages resulting from extreme weather conditions caused by said > globalwarming effect for as long as the secrecy order is in effect. > > Happy Easter; > Dennis > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Starfire > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html > > Unified Field Art > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG > > Tall Ships > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > Concentric Tori > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG > > Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! > http://www.artbellchatclub.com > > REPORT of the COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY 1997 > SENATE DOCUMENT 105-2 > http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/index.html > ________________________________________ > > When I am working on a problem, > I never think about beauty. > I only think of how to solve the problem. > But when I have finished, > if the solution is not beautiful, > I know it is wrong. > > -R. Buckminster Fuller- > ________________________________________ > > 'G' defines 'objective art': > > "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in > it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows > and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one > impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of > course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical > certainty, produce one and the same impression. > > "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on > people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive > from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. > > - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the > term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral > and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the > ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in > the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or > unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having > in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the > natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to > to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot > perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower > tones; and must be part of an organized whole." > > - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect > our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men > trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the > powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every > individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come > under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, > whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the > person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this > manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. > Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since > he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone > else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be > introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will > accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend > that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to > state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the > author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great > mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man > sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". > It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once > was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's > inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big > trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). > The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of > the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the > patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the > run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. > A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely > to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the > author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in > which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. > As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their > scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a > direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA > at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One > evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the > fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be > monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call > headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began > sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. > This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by > CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. > Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. > > quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html > > Sec. 4.2. General Restrictions on Access. > > (b) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating > agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information > originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An > official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified > information from the agency's control. > > (e) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior > agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated > information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that > collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified > information have controls that: > > (2) ensure the integrity of the information. > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html > > Sec. 5.7. Sanctions. > > (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight > Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives may > have occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to > the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be > taken. > > (b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, > licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate > sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently: > > (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this > order or predecessor orders; > > (2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this > order or any implementing directive; > > (3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of > this order; > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html > > Sec. 3.2. Authority for Declassification. > > (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the > standards for classification under this order. > > (b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification > requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional > cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the > public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the > information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be > referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will > determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in > disclosure outweighs the damage to national security that might reasonably > be expected from disclosure. > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > >From "What's New?" at http://www.physicsweb.org > > Antarctic glaciers feel the heat > > [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West > Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to > satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the > glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to > Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in > California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is > theoretically unstable and that the retreat could > become irreversible. Many believe that such an event > would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot > cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a > short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have > implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the > entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). > > Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 > and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 > and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns > that are sensitive to small vertical > movements. These patterns provide information on the > velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay > - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which > ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the > water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine > Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other > large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this > was being caused by an influx of warm water from the > Southern Pacific Ocean. > > Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 > km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay > each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is > replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates > that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data > does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, > water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of > centuries. > > > > > Global warming confirmed from > space > > [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of > the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and > ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for > years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality > of global warming. Now, however, calculations by > Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing > Systems in California have shown that small decays in > the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy > (Nature 394 661). > > Previously satellite measurements have > suggested that the atmosphere was > cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while > ground-based instruments showed an > increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar > satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The > thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent > on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a > maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper > atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand > outwards, which increases the drag experienced by > satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the > orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic > and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to > decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. > > They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit > (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature > profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By > developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were > able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the > instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin > per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new > figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate > models and explains why the satellites had seen increased > cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar > activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. > > > > > Humans are the cause of climate > change > > [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the > relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and > solar activity to global warming appears to have been > resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin > Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological > temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with > results from two leading computer models. They found > that the best fit to the data occurred when this > century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to > have been caused mainly by mankind's output of > greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). > > The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the > data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the > Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 > C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and > sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team > believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on > the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two > possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse > gases and changes in the sun's output. > > Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer > models four times, each time with a different set of > parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in > which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years > and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the > second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be > affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but > greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no > solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally > the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising > levels of greenhouse gases. > > They first found that there was wide discrepancies between > the output of both computer models and the experimental > data in the first data set. This indicated that some > mechanism was increasing the global temperature this > century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely > responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would > have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than > realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer > concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review > Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming > experiment), the only model that matched both simulation > and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong > greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. > > According to Wigley: "These results provide another > important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, > strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been > a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, > they provide additional evidence that the models used to > make projections of future climate change are realistic." > ____________________________________________________________________________ ____ > > http://www.bitlaw.com/source/35usc/183.html > U.S. Patent Act - Patent Laws > Title 35 United States Code Section 183, Right to compensation > > An applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, whose > patent is withheld as herein provided, shall have the right, beginning at > the date the applicant is notified that, except for such order, his > application is otherwise in condition for allowance, or February 1, 1952, > whichever is later, and ending six years after a patent is issued thereon, > to apply to the head of any department or agency who caused the order to be > issued for compensation for the damage caused by the order of secrecy and/or > for the use of the invention by the Government, resulting from his > disclosure. The right to compensation for use shall begin on the date of the > first use of the invention by the Government. The head of the department or > agency is authorized, upon the presentation of a claim, to enter into an > agreement with the applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal > representatives, in full settlement for the damage and/or use. This > settlement agreement shall be conclusive for all purposes not withstanding > any other provision of law to the contrary. If full settlement of the claim > cannot be effected, the head of the > department or agency may award and pay to such applicant, his successors, > assigns, or legal representatives, a sum not exceeding 75 per centum of the > sum which the head of the department or agency considers just compensation > for the damage and/or use. A claimant may bring suit against the United > States in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal > Claims] or in the District Court of the United States for the district in > which such claimant is a resident for an amount which when added to the > award shall constitute just compensation for the damage and/or use of the > invention by the Government. The owner of any patent issued upon an > application that was subject to a secrecy order issued pursuant to section > 181 of this title, who did not apply for compensation as above provided, > shall have the right, after the date of issuance of such patent, to bring > suit in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal > Claims] for just compensation for the > damage caused by reason of the order of secrecy and/or use by the Government > of the invention resulting from his disclosure. The right to compensation > for use shall begin on the date of the first use of the invention by the > Government. In a suit under the provisions of this section the United States > may avail itself of all defenses it may plead in an action under section > 1498 of title 28. This section > shall not confer a right of action on anyone or his successors, assigns, or > legal representatives who, while in the full-time employment or service of > the United States, discovered, invented, or developed the invention on which > the claim is based. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ______ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 15:22:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA14773; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:21:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:21:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3707C9DD.119730F5@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 15:21:49 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Cold Fusion 100% real References: <199904040044.SAA12221@mw3.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ABO6Z.0.jc3.QN-1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Cold Fusion Is 100% Real Says Physicist By Connie Hargrave San Francisco 4-3-99 Ten years after its disputed 'discovery', cold fusion is a topic shrouded in embarrassed silence. But one physicist continues to insist that it's for real -- and that he can prove it. Russ George has worked steadily as an independent scientist to unveil the mystery of the cold fusion reaction announced ten years ago by chemistry professors Fleischmann and Pons. Last year George presented the first paper ever to be accepted on the subject of cold fusion by the prestigious American Physical Society. His photographic evidence, along with experiments at Stanford Research Institute in California, proved to the scientific community that cold fusion exists as a controlled nuclear reaction. He is very close to developing simple and practical applications using this reaction as a source of low-cost energy. Here, Connie Hargrave interviews him for Share International. Share International: If cold nuclear fusion can produce infinite amounts of heat using easily accessible materials under normal conditions, why is there not more interest in this potential new source of energy? Why do we not, for instance, read about it more often? Russ George: The concept of cold fusion does not fit into the existing framework of modern science and threatens its most basic foundations. The number of people working in this field around the world has in fact declined from about 1,000 to around 100, because the reaction is very elusive. Cold nuclear fusion is not an invention, but a phenomenon of nature which is very energetic. Nature, however, does not seem to use it on a very large scale, and the reaction is not normally seen as very robust or easily reproducible. For this reason, producing scientific evidence has been problematic. Most scientists are narrow specialists and are trained in 'cook-book' methods to alter the ingredients of known 'recipes'. The work with cold fusion is, by contrast, classic frontier activity, where you are dealing wit h new, mostly unknown territory. Perhaps it takes a generalist like myself, who has no academic tenure, salary or reputation to protect, to make headway in this field. Before cold fusion, mankind had harnessed nuclear fusion only in nuclear weapons. In order to cause a fusion reaction, as in the hydrogen bomb, it is necessary to have temperatures equal to those of the centre of the sun. Understandably, fusion scientists laugh at the possibility of a nuclear reaction occurring at room temperature. SI: If that is so, how did Fleischmann and Pons know that their discovery was in fact nuclear energy, and not just a chemical reaction? RG: The people observing these reactions for the first time were good chemists who understood that the principles of chemistry did not apply. They were seeing excess heat: they put in 10 watts of electrical power and things would heat up as if they were putting in 11 watts. With normal chemical reactions the production of heat ceases when the fuel is used up, but Pons and Fleischmann knew that theirs was not a chemical reaction, because the energy produced far exceeded anything known in chemistry, and therefore they reasoned that the reaction was nuclear. SI: Why do so many other scientists disagree? Why are these findings being treated as an aberration? RG: A nuclear reaction is considered synonymous with the presence of radiation, and the scientific mind set does not allow for a nuclear reaction which emits no measurable radiation. Scientists have said: "Where there is nuclear fire there have to be nuclear ashes," and everyone knows that the "ashes" of a nuclear reaction is radiation. Cold fusion produces intense alpha radiation, which is totally different: it takes only a few atoms to shield you from it, whereas it takes three feet of lead to shield you from the nuclear radiation produced by an atom bomb explosion. In sum, because cold fusion does not produce energetic, penetrating nuclear radiation, scientists have disclaimed it " as not being nuclear. This view is now totally entrenched, a bit like the flat-earth concept was at the time of Copernicus. When science acknowledges cold fusion, nuclear and atomic physics will have to be reconsidered. Scientists will have to ask themselves: "Have we made other assumptions that are wrong? What else have we missed?" The discovery of cold fusion pulls three legs out from every chair of contemporary physics, so to speak. SI: I thought scientists were in essence curious people and would be delighted with such a possibility. RG: Some are, but not the last few generations of scientists who are now the leading authorities in physics. Consider the position of the individuals who are at the top of their field, who have written the definitive text books, who are in their 50s and 60s and have tenure at prestigious universities. What these early cold fusion results are telling them is: "The text book you completed 10 years ago, which is the 'bible' of nuclear physics, is mostly wrong. In fact, you left out the most important nuclear data yet to be discovered by mankind, which is that there is a whole other family of nuclear reactions that proceeds without penetrating radiation." SI: You have photographic evidence that cold fusion does exist? RG: Yes. I presented a scientific paper to the American Physical Society in the spring of 1998, which demonstrates at a microscopic level that a nuclear reaction took place. The photos show that the metal palladium, when used in cold fusion reactions, is covered with eruptions like micro volcanoes in it. This indicated that something had gotten very hot and melted or vaporized the metal, but only in tiny pinpoints. Since we know the melting point ofpalladium, we calculated the amount of energy required to melt such a pinpoint without melting the surroundings. The number we arrived at was so astronomically high that it demanded a nuclear source of energy. SI: How was your evidence received? RG: Politely. Scientists said: "Yes, you have evidence of nuclear heat, but there is no radiation, so the reaction cannot be nuclear." This is circular logic, because these scientists are not open to the possibility of the existence of any other type of nuclear reaction. SI: What have you had to prove to demonstrate conclusively that a nuclear reaction is indeed occurring? RG: That helium is produced, as you would expect when you fuse two atoms of hydrogen " or deuterium Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 15:21:45 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? References: <199904040044.SAA12221@mw3.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x-bbv1.0.wa3.xM-1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com wow, Joe! thats amazing! did a fire ball pop out of the radio? Joe Portman wrote: > > As a boy in the early forties, we had no radio, but the old blacksmith down > the road did. He liked the Lone Ranger as much as me. I once went to listen > and while there, a storm came up, cracked a bolt or two. He had a diamond > radio wire antenna on top of the house, and the wire came through the > ceiling, down the wall and over to the radio. A bolt cracked and a fireball > came down that wire and followed it to the radio, which promptly > disintegrated in a blinding flash. We were unhurt, but I never saw anything > like it again. > Joe Portman > ============ > > ---------- > > From: William Beaty > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? > > Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 4:18 PM > > > > > > > > Hey, are there any "ball lightning" experimenters here? If the following > > tale is true, then this suggests a method to create BL by applying > > electrical pulses (or perhaps scalar/torsion energy) to a conventional > > light bulb. When successful, the light bulb would "light up" for awhile > > because of the BL stored inside. > > > > > > > > REPORT YOUR UNUSUAL PHENOMENA > > http://www.halcyon.com/sciclub/cgi-pvt/unusual/unusual.html > > > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:23:48 -0800 (PST) > > From: Kent Boyle > > Subject: Entry to Phenomena Reports (need update!) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > I'm so glad I found this site. This happened to me > > > 20 years ago (I was a 8 then). There was a storm over > > > my neighborhood, and I was kept awake by the noise of the > > > rain and the constant clapping of the thunder. > > > > > > A really loud lightning bolt shook me. I was sure it struck > > > the house because I saw the entire window flash white as the bolt > > > struck. I then saw a blue fuzzy "ball" floating outside my widow. It > > > floated through thw window (the screen, the glass, the entire thing)! > > > Then it drifted down toward the floor, keeping its luminesence, and > > > floated toward the dresser. When it reached the dresser, it floated up, > > > keeping about 2 inches away from the side of the dresser. > > > > > > Then when it got to the top, it sort of skimmed across the surface of > > > the dresser, into a lamp sitting on the dresser. When the the blue > ball > > > touched the lamp, it made a audible poping sound, and I remember a > quick > > > flash (like a camera) in the room. > > > > > > > > The lamp was turned off, but after the contact, it was suddenly turned > > > on. I walked over, and tried to flip the switch to turn it off, but > > > nothing happened. I tried unplugging the lamp, but it stayed on. I > > > stared at it for several minutes, it just stayed on. I went to get my > > > parents, but when I got back, the lamp has turned off again. They told > > > me I was just imagining things, but I am sure that it happened. I- > > > remember it very distinctly. Kent Boyle Greenville, SC USA - Friday, > > > April 02, 1999 at 04:23:48 (PST) > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Really weird! I've read quite a bit about ball lightning, but never > heard > > of anything like this. > > > > However, there is a possible connection between light bulbs and ball > > lightning. Light bulbs are full of low-pressure Argon gas. This is the > > same gas that's used in those "plasma globe" devices such as "eye of the > > storm" sold by Radio Shack stores in the USA. > > > > Perhaps the ball lightning temporarily took up residence inside the light > > bulb?!!! > > > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) > ))))))))))))))))))))) > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST > website > > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird > science > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L > webhead-L > > > > > > -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 16:37:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01898; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:33:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:33:27 -0700 From: "felis catus" To: Subject: Amateur Radio on 180meter Band Using Non-Hertzian Waves. Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:32:44 -0400 Message-ID: <01be7ef3$70c58c60$c3db82d1@cat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE7ED1.E9B3EC60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"q-8TX.0.VT.6R_1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE7ED1.E9B3EC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alexander: A letter of inquiry appeared in this posting(Easter) As = Hertz did, can we do it? Please refer also to my letter of reply on the = Rogers system: a.. I need to locate some information on the passive = electrical collector/charge accumulator that Nicola Tesla designed. As I understand = it, it involves a large antenna which is sunk into the earth, but insulated = from ground; it self-polarises between the atmosphere and the earth, and a = large voltage gradient develops. =20 I have a 10' metal satellite dish that I'm about to set up = on a 15' heavy steel mast, sunk into a 3'x3'x6' concrete pedestal, with the = base of the mast at ground level and the pedestal sunk 3' into the = ground. I have some uses for the potential difference if it is significant = enough. =20 Has anyone built one? Can anyone point me to some drawings = or furnish data they've collected from one? I will share data from mine in return...... =20 /Dave David L. Wenbert The Great Power & Light Company =20 The following references will be of help to you: Electrical Experimenter, March 1919 Vol. Whole Number 71,. = No. 11 " Editorial, Underground Wireless, America's Greatest Invention-The Rogers Underground Wireless " by H. Gernsback Electrical Experimenter, March, 1919 Vol.. Whole Number 71, No.11 "America's Greatest War Invention- The Rogers Underground = Wireless." p.787,788,789,832,833,834,835,839, Electrical Experimenter, June 1919 The Rogers Underground = Areal For Amateurs Specially Prepared With The Collaboration Of Mr. James = Harris Rogers. pp.136. pp136-137,187 US Patent 1,303,729 James Harris Rogers Wireless = Radiosignalling System US Patent 1,315,.862 James Harris Rogers Wireless Signalling System You are right in the general idea as to the construction of the device. Rogers suggested using auto ignition cable with the end of the cable plugged for insulation. The antenna will also work underwater, as well = as underground. Underground experiments would be expensive, as one would = need earthmoving equipment, such as as a bulldozer to do it. Underwater-such = as a lakebed or streambed-are somewhat more practical. As an amateur radio operator, would suggest that you try to repeat the original Harris experiments- this would involve a half wave one hundred and eighty = meter antenna end fed underwater. I would lay the antenna on a riverbed at = least 2meters deep from a rowboat with the ignition wire on a large storage = coil assembly. One hundred and eighty meters- just above the 1600KC upper = end of the AM broadcast band is not popular with amateurs because of the high ambient background noise and relatively short distance of propagation, compared to the higher amateur radio bands. Down and almost useless in daytime, and 'up' at night. (ever noticed all the far away stations you could get at night on your AM car radio?) If you, for example, could = lay a half wave end fed antenna for 180 meters on a riverbed or lakebed and = obtain the effects inventor Rogers claimed, this would be a significant (and practical) discovery. First, Rogers claimed that the ambient background noise was reduced to a fraction of what is normally expected. Secondly, propagation was the same-day or night. Would the received signal be as clear, for example, for two amateur experimenters-one in Russia and the other in France? Normally, communication between two people this far = apart at one hundred and eighty meters is not possible. If you are going to experiment, try to repeat the original protocols as closely as possible- don't waste your time playing with the concrete pedestal and mast for starters. One hundred and eighty meters was considered the upper = frontier of practical usable radio in the World War One period and before. [interestingly enough, this is why amateur radio operators were given = their present radio bands/allocations- these were considered to be of no = practical value at this time] The claims made in the Gernsbeck Editorial are of great interest: "...During the war, Rogers developed = underground and sub-sea wireless for receiving at least to a heterofore undreamed of state of perfection. His receiving station at Hyattsville never missed a word transmitted from French, English, Italian, as well as German high powered stations.(nb: in longwave bands) He received his messages from Europe when a thunder- -storm , accompanied by terrific = lightening, was going on directly above his head. Recently, too, he has done away entirely away with static..." "...At first, it would seem reasonable that = only long wave lengths could be used with the Rodgers system. But this is not the case. Underground Radio-telephone messages, seven miles distant, came in just as clear on 300 = meters wave length as does the Nauen, Germany station with 12,600 meters wave length. This is indeed good news for our amateurs..." "...But the most spectacular feature of Mr. Rogers revolutionising invention probably is his 'sub-sea wireless' Scientists the = world over, Marconi included, declared it an utter impossibility to communicate by wireless with a totally submerged submarine. Mr. Rogers, however, goes right ahead and does it, = not only in fresh water, but through salt water as well. Indeed, he established wireless communication with a submarine whose areal wires were 25 feet below the surface of the ocean!" "...Mr. Rogers himself takes the view -and = he is seconded by Tesla-that the transoceanic messages which he receives over his underground system are NOT HERTZIAN WAVES- pure or even converted-but merely high frequency ground impulses. .." Is the very act of doing this a clear, repeatable proof of "scalar" or torsional physics being valid, like Hertz's early experiments? Would repeating these experiments in the 180 meter amateur band show a serious anomaly/flaw in currently acceptable scientific paradigm- like = Becquerel's finding of clouding of a sealed plate of photographic film when = radioactive uranium salts/ore was placed on it? Also, it would not take a = considerable investment of cash to repeat this- the biggest investment is for a 180 = meter or so roll of ignition wire and various miscellaneous hardware, as well = as borrowing a small boat and gasoline/electric generator to run the = amateur radio transceiver... It wonders me why no one has ever repeated these old experiments. = The kind of blind, unwavering Faith typical of orthodox religions- is is appropriate for physical theories?(or anything else for that matter?) = Is not a 'theory' only a provisional hypothesis with some experiments to = back it up-not an Article Of Faith? If these old experiments work, they = could have practical results as far as amateur radio is concerned- making use = of the 180 meter bands practical because of the greatly lowered background /ambient noise levels. Propagation with the Rogers system is at = present unknown, but the old articles point to the conclusion that it is vastly increased with an 'underground' antenna. Also, there are serious = problems with neighbours in suburban environments with aboveground amateur = areals. There have been many legal battles between amateur radio operators and outraged neighbours in front of local zoning boards regarding amateur antennas aboveground being an eyesore to the neighbours. Out of sight = is out of mind- a Rogers Underground Antenna would be a non-issue since it = is by definition unseen. So, I bring these 'practical' considerations = before you and the group. WA2YIX 4/4/99 -----Original Message----- From: dwenbert To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 5:16 PM Subject: Tesla Antenna >I need to locate some information on the passive electrical collector/charge >accumulator that Nicola Tesla designed. As I understand it, it = involves a >large antenna which is sunk into the earth, but insulated from ground; = it >self-polarises between the atmosphere and the earth, and a large = voltage >gradient develops. > >I have a 10' metal satellite dish that I'm about to set up on a 15' = heavy >steel mast, sunk into a 3'x3'x6' concrete pedestal, with the base of = the >mast at ground level and the pedestal sunk 3' into the ground. I have some >uses for the potential difference if it is significant enough. > >Has anyone built one? Can anyone point me to some drawings or furnish = data >they've collected from one? >I will share data from mine in return...... > >/Dave >David L. Wenbert >The Great Power & Light Company > > > I have heard there is a strong amateur radio organization in Moscow. = Would the Comrades be interested in repeating these old experiments? I = could send you JPEG's of the original articles cited here to your email = box. Is there any size limitation of your mailbox, since JPEG's are = rather large(sometimes close to one megabyte per page). =20 =20 felis catus a.k.a. WA2YIX 4/4/99 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE7ED1.E9B3EC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alexander:
          &nbs= p;  =20 A letter of inquiry appeared in this posting(Easter)   As = Hertz did,=20 can we do it?  Please refer also to my letter of reply on the = Rogers=20 system:
  • I need to locate some = information on=20 the passive electrical collector/charge
    accumulator that = Nicola=20 Tesla designed.    As I understand it, it = involves=20 a
    large antenna which is sunk into the earth, but = insulated from=20 ground; it
    self-polarises between the atmosphere and the = earth,=20 and a large voltage
    gradient develops.

    I have a = 10' metal=20 satellite dish that I'm about to set up on a 15' = heavy
    steel=20 mast, sunk into a 3'x3'x6' concrete pedestal, with the base = of=20 the
    mast at ground level and the pedestal sunk 3' into = the=20 ground.   I have some
    uses for the potential = difference=20 if it is significant enough.

    Has anyone built = one?  Can=20 anyone point me to some drawings or furnish data
    they've=20 collected from one?
    I will share data from mine in=20 return......

    /Dave
    David L. Wenbert
    The Great = Power=20 & Light = Company
The following references will be of = help to=20 you:
           = ;=20 Electrical Experimenter, March 1919 Vol. Whole Number 71,. No.
11 = "=20 Editorial, Underground Wireless, America's Greatest = Invention-The
Rogers=20 Underground Wireless " by H.=20 Gernsback
          =  =20 Electrical Experimenter, March, 1919  Vol.. Whole Number = 71,
No.11=20 "America's Greatest War Invention- The Rogers Underground=20 Wireless."
p.787,788,789,832,833,834,835,839,
  &nbs= p;        =20 Electrical Experimenter, June 1919 The Rogers Underground Areal
For = Amateurs=20 Specially Prepared With The Collaboration Of Mr. James = Harris
Rogers. =20 pp.136.=20 pp136-137,187
         &n= bsp; =20 US Patent 1,303,729 James Harris Rogers Wireless=20 Radiosignalling
System
       &n= bsp;   =20 US Patent 1,315,.862 James Harris Rogers Wireless=20 Signalling
System

You are right in the general idea as to the=20 construction of the device.
Rogers suggested using auto ignition = cable=20 with  the end of the cable
plugged for insulation.  The = antenna=20 will also work underwater, as well as
underground.  Underground=20 experiments would be expensive, as one would need
earthmoving = equipment, such=20 as as a bulldozer to do it.  Underwater-such as
a lakebed or=20 streambed-are somewhat more practical.  As an amateur = radio
operator,=20 would suggest that you try to repeat the original Harris
experiments- = this=20 would involve a  half wave one hundred and eighty meter
antenna = end fed=20 underwater.  I would lay the antenna on a riverbed at = least
2meters deep=20 from a rowboat with the ignition wire on a large storage = coil
assembly. =20 One hundred and eighty meters- just above the 1600KC upper end of
the = AM=20 broadcast band is not popular with amateurs because of the = high
ambient=20 background noise and  relatively short distance of = propagation,
compared=20 to the higher amateur radio bands.  Down and almost useless = in
daytime,=20 and 'up' at night. (ever noticed all the far away stations you
could = get at=20 night on your AM car radio?)   If you, for example, could lay=20 a
half wave end fed antenna for 180 meters on a riverbed or lakebed = and=20 obtain
the effects inventor Rogers claimed, this would be a = significant=20 (and
practical) discovery.  First, Rogers claimed that the = ambient=20 background
noise was reduced to a fraction of what is normally=20 expected.  Secondly,
propagation was the same-day or = night.  Would=20 the received signal be as
clear, for example, for two amateur=20 experimenters-one in Russia and the
other in France?  Normally,=20 communication between two people this far apart
at one hundred and = eighty=20 meters is not possible.   If you are going to
experiment, = try to=20 repeat the original protocols as closely as possible-
don't waste = your time=20 playing with the concrete pedestal and mast for
starters.   = One=20 hundred and eighty meters was considered the upper frontier
of = practical=20 usable radio in the World War One period and before.
[interestingly = enough,=20 this is why amateur radio operators were given their
present radio=20 bands/allocations- these were considered to be of no practical
value = at this=20 time]
   The claims made in the Gernsbeck Editorial are of = great=20 interest:
          =             &= nbsp;    =20 "...During the war, Rogers developed underground
and sub-sea = wireless=20 for receiving at=20 least
          &nbs= p;            = ;         =20 to a heterofore undreamed of state of
perfection.   His = receiving=20 station at Hyattsville=20 never
          &nbs= p;            = ;        =20 missed a word  transmitted from French,
English, Italian, as = well as=20 German high=20 powered
          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;        =20 stations.(nb: in longwave bands)  He
received his messages from = Europe=20 when a=20 thunder-
          &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;        =20 -storm , accompanied by terrific lightening,
was going on directly = above his=20 head.=20 Recently,
          =             &= nbsp;        =20 too, he has done away entirely away=20 with
static..."
       &nbs= p;            = ;       =20 "...At first, it would seem reasonable that only
long wave = lengths could=20 be used with the=20 Rodgers
          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;        =20 system.  But this is not the case.
Underground Radio-telephone = messages,=20 seven=20 miles
          &nbs= p;            = ;        =20 distant, came in just as clear on 300 meters
wave length as does the = Nauen,=20 Germany
          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;        =20 station with 12,600 meters wave length.
This is indeed good news for = our=20 amateurs..."
        &nbs= p;            = ;      =20 "...But the most spectacular feature of Mr.
Rogers = revolutionising=20 invention  probably is=20 his
           =             &= nbsp;       =20 'sub-sea wireless'   Scientists the world
over, Marconi = included,=20 declared it an=20 utter
          &nbs= p;            = ;        =20 impossibility to communicate by wireless
with a totally submerged=20 submarine.  Mr.=20 Rogers,
          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;        =20 however, goes right ahead and does it, not
only in fresh water, but = through=20 salt water as=20 well.
          &nbs= p;            = ;        =20 Indeed, he established wireless
communication with a submarine whose = areal=20 wires=20 were
           = ;            =         =20 25 feet below the surface of the=20 ocean!"
         &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;     =20 "...Mr. Rogers himself takes the view -and he is
seconded by = Tesla-that=20 the=20 transoceanic
         &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;         =20 messages which he receives over his
underground system are NOT = HERTZIAN=20 WAVES-
          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;        =20 pure or even converted-but merely high
frequency ground impulses.=20 .."
Is the very act of doing this a clear, repeatable proof of=20 "scalar" or
torsional physics being valid, like Hertz's = early=20 experiments?  Would
repeating these experiments in the 180 meter = amateur=20 band show a serious
anomaly/flaw in currently acceptable scientific = paradigm-=20 like Becquerel's
finding of clouding of a sealed plate of = photographic film=20 when radioactive
uranium salts/ore was placed on it?  Also, it = would not=20 take a considerable
investment of cash to repeat this- the biggest = investment=20 is for a 180 meter
or so roll of ignition wire and various = miscellaneous=20 hardware, as well as
borrowing a small boat and gasoline/electric = generator=20 to run the amateur
radio transceiver...
    It = wonders me=20 why no one has ever repeated these old experiments.  The
kind of = blind,=20 unwavering Faith typical of orthodox religions- is is
appropriate for = physical theories?(or anything else for that matter?)   = Is
not a=20 'theory' only a provisional hypothesis with some experiments to = back
it=20 up-not an Article Of Faith?   If these old experiments work, = they=20 could
have practical results as far as amateur radio is concerned- = making use=20 of
the 180 meter bands practical because of the greatly lowered=20 background
/ambient noise levels.   Propagation with the = Rogers=20 system is at present
unknown, but the old articles point to the = conclusion=20 that it is vastly
increased with an 'underground' = antenna.   Also,=20 there are serious problems
with neighbours in suburban environments = with=20 aboveground amateur areals.
There have been many legal battles = between=20 amateur radio operators and
outraged neighbours in front of local = zoning=20 boards regarding amateur
antennas aboveground being an eyesore to the = neighbours.  Out of sight is
out of mind- a Rogers Underground = Antenna=20 would be a non-issue since it is
by definition unseen.   = So, I=20 bring these 'practical' considerations before
you and the=20 group.

WA2YIX  4/4/99



-----Original=20 Message-----
From: dwenbert <dwenbert@spacey.net>
To: = freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Date= :=20 Saturday, April 03, 1999 5:16 PM
Subject: Tesla = Antenna


>I need=20 to locate some information on the passive=20 electrical
collector/charge
>accumulator that Nicola Tesla=20 designed.    As I understand it, it = involves
a
>large=20 antenna which is sunk into the earth, but insulated from ground;=20 it
>self-polarises between the atmosphere and the earth, and a = large=20 voltage
>gradient develops.
>
>I have a 10' metal = satellite=20 dish that I'm about to set up on a 15' heavy
>steel mast, sunk = into a=20 3'x3'x6' concrete pedestal, with the base of the
>mast at ground = level and=20 the pedestal sunk 3' into the ground.   I = have
some
>uses for=20 the potential difference if it is significant enough.
>
>Has = anyone=20 built one?  Can anyone point me to some drawings or furnish=20 data
>they've collected from one?
>I will share data from = mine in=20 return......
>
>/Dave
>David L. Wenbert
>The = Great Power=20 & Light Company
>
>
>
I have heard there is a strong = amateur radio=20 organization in Moscow.  Would the Comrades be interested in = repeating=20 these old experiments?  I could send you JPEG's of the original = articles=20 cited here to your email box.  Is there any size limitation of your = mailbox, since JPEG's are rather large(sometimes close to one megabyte = per=20 page). 
 
felis catus  a.k.a. = WA2YIX =20 4/4/99

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE7ED1.E9B3EC60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 17:12:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11452; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:11:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:11:34 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 14:09:52 -1000 Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904042028.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"psVXu2.0.ro2.r-_1t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Joe - > Glass is not totally dielectric. It is amorphous and > has flaws. If the voltage is high enough, an arc will > pass through, especially old glass. [ - Joe Portman] These things have *structure* of some sort, and that self contained *structure* survives a trip through thick walls, and even an aluminum airplane hull! Glass isn't the story. There's just no way simple charge even at very high voltage is going to come through the highly conductive metal hull (a very nice Faraday cage) of an airborne craft and float up the aisle in front of a load of astonished passengers. Even lightning bolts, for all their intense fury and millions of volts, don't just conduct straight through big conductive metal shells (without blowing a physical hole through them). BL is obviously a different breed of animal. This was all too apparent to the passengers of the aircraft I mention. They were mostly physicists going home from some convention. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 18:36:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04419; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:35:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:35:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199904050135.UAA17592@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:33:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"d9Us93.0.y41.QD12t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com How about it being a big magnetic bubble compressing and containing the high voltage/current...it could then pass easily through anything except iron. Of course, it must have a special frequency to make that which it encounters transparent, as light is to glass.......hmmmm......... Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Rick Monteverde > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? > Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 7:09 PM > > Joe - > > > Glass is not totally dielectric. It is amorphous and > > has flaws. If the voltage is high enough, an arc will > > pass through, especially old glass. [ - Joe Portman] > > These things have *structure* of some sort, and that self contained > *structure* survives a trip through thick walls, and even an aluminum > airplane hull! Glass isn't the story. There's just no way simple charge even > at very high voltage is going to come through the highly conductive metal > hull (a very nice Faraday cage) of an airborne craft and float up the aisle > in front of a load of astonished passengers. Even lightning bolts, for all > their intense fury and millions of volts, don't just conduct straight > through big conductive metal shells (without blowing a physical hole through > them). BL is obviously a different breed of animal. This was all too > apparent to the passengers of the aircraft I mention. They were mostly > physicists going home from some convention. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 4 23:18:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19655; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:18:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:18:13 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 02:21:04 -0400 Message-ID: <19990405062104359.AAA287@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"qiRrs2.0.0p4.bM52t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Joe and Rick wrote: >How about it being a big magnetic bubble compressing and containing the >high voltage/current...it could then pass easily through anything except >iron. Of course, it must have a special frequency to make that which it >encounters transparent, as light is to glass.......hmmmm......... >Joe Portman >========== >> From: Rick Monteverde >> Joe - >> >> > Glass is not totally dielectric. It is amorphous and >> > has flaws. If the voltage is high enough, an arc will >> > pass through, especially old glass. [ - Joe Portman] >> >> These things have *structure* of some sort, and that self contained >> *structure* survives a trip through thick walls, and even an aluminum >> airplane hull! Glass isn't the story. There's just no way simple charge >even >> at very high voltage is going to come through the highly conductive metal >> hull (a very nice Faraday cage) of an airborne craft and float up the >aisle >> in front of a load of astonished passengers. Even lightning bolts, for >all >> their intense fury and millions of volts, don't just conduct straight >> through big conductive metal shells (without blowing a physical hole >through >> them). BL is obviously a different breed of animal. This was all too >> apparent to the passengers of the aircraft I mention. They were mostly >> physicists going home from some convention. >> >> - Rick Monteverde >> Honolulu, HI I've corresponded with Richard Bishop about his experience with BL while testing a method for reducing the amount of radioactivity in soil, and I've told about my experience with a fairly large BL while up in Alaska, and I've read a few other stories that have some similarities, but a lot of dissimilarities, as well. It really is a mystery. I've always thought of BL as a self-ionizing plasma that was self-limiting, but would have a duration for as long as the plasma was able to contain the material that it was using for a fuel within a certain geometry. This would imply some kind of magnetic confinement or that possibility. One material that would be available in the atmosphere in small quantities that would be a good fuel, as well as a conductor would be hydrogen. Another might be a carbon matrix made up originally of methane that gets enough of an electrical charge that it starts to go into what appears to be a plasma state. There are other materials such as radon that might fit the bill, and that are in the atmosphere. The one thing about hydrogen is that it can go through just about any material except stainless steel even when it is not in the plasma state. I would think that while it was in the plasma state that it would be even easier. Rick says it all, however, when he says that if this were a normal plasma, A. the heat should burn holes in things, and B. it should follow and discharge itself into conductive pathways when it encounters them. Also, the fact that goes around certain things like this dresser, and can move up and down, skipping across surfaces, etc. make its behavior markedly different from regular lightning, and even a self-ionizing plasma in many ways. It goes from a low pressure zone in the case of forming outside an aircraft and going inside an aircraft, and yet it moves in the opposite manner when it is formed outside of a lightbulb but moves inside it. Atmospheric pressure is obviously not a factor. I don't think that thermal considerations are the driving factor in its movements either, but I would have to re-read all of the accounts. Argon would be present in the atmosphere in small quantities, and inside the lightbulb. The lightbulbs in the aircraft may also contain argon. Maybe it is a function of some kind of Argon Affinity! Eureka! Maybe... :-) The differences in the between Joe's story and Rick's with regards to the ball following a conductive pathway may have something to do with the actual size of the ground. In Joe's case the ground would be earth while in the airplane it would be the plane itself. If the plasma fuel were also a preferential conduction path in comparison to the aircraft material it might just hang together while moving through it. All of this is just idle speculation, of course, and it is obviously well over my head. Was the plane that you wrote about, Rick, in flight when this occurred? Was the BL observed to follow the plane for a while before entering it? That would seem to violate a lot of Physics, right there, eh? Happy Headscratching! BTW, I walked into the grocery store this evening, and set off the security alarms. The night manager ran over immediately, and asked me to give her the contents of my pockets. So I did. One by one, she passed the articles by the vertical detector panels and nothing set the alarm off. There were some kids that came in right behind me, and she assumed that they must have had something that set the alarm off, and she let me come in. I picked up what I wanted in the store, paid for it, and went to leave. The alarms went off again. The poor girl comes running over, and we go through the same routine. Nothing that she held would set off the alarm, but if I held a certain packet of pipe tobacco that I had in my pocket, the alarm would go off. Nothing else would do it, and it had to be me handling it. I just concluded that I must be a very alarming fellow, we laughed, and she let me go home. I'm sure there is a wonderful explanation for that one, too. :-) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 02:01:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA12693; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 01:59:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 01:59:22 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:57:39 -1000 Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904050516.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"Y6Xhp1.0.A63.gj72t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Knuke - >Was the plane that you wrote about, Rick, in flight when >this occurred? Yes. >Was the BL observed to follow the plane for a while before >entering it? That I don't know. I'm fuzzy on the details of the story, but it's rather well known and shouldn't be too hard to find on the web somewhere with the obvious and rather unique keywords. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 09:21:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06572; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:20:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:20:53 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:23:45 -0400 Message-ID: <19990405162345046.AAA73@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"KlOL73.0.ac1.aBE2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick wrote: >>Was the plane that you wrote about, Rick, in flight when >>this occurred? > >Yes. > >>Was the BL observed to follow the plane for a while before >>entering it? > >That I don't know. I'm fuzzy on the details of the story, but it's rather >well known and shouldn't be too hard to find on the web somewhere with the >obvious and rather unique keywords. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Hey Rick, Yeah, if the BL was even observed to be outside the plane for just a couple of seconds, while flying at speeds in excess of what, 350mph?, then it would add a whole dimension of weirdness to the observed behavior pattern inventory. If the BL merely appeared to be coming out of the bulkhead of the plane then it could have actually originated in the skin of the plane. That would be explainable. I do believe, however, that I have read that there have been observations of BL that were first observed outside of a plane, and seen to be entering the plane, in the case that I remember reading about, it was through the window, and the window was left unblemished. I've got too much to do to be chasing this one right now, though. Seen any rainbows with pots of gold at the end of them lately? -Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 09:48:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18792; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:46:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:46:55 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <92bb85e1.243a48b4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:11:16 EDT Subject: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Grod123456@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"fHjDf.0.Xb4._ZE2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Everyone ! This is the first time I've wrote to this group so be kind please... First of all, let me assure you, I am not a quack...I am a construction contractor in the Pacific Northwest... I have been somewhat interested in "perpetual motion machines" since I was 17... I am now 33 and may have come across an amazing breakthrough... I have a simple mechanical device that uses gravity as its only force... Of course I have plans and so forth and this week I am picking up my final pieces from a local machine shop... I have several test models that gave me incredible data to make my dimensions of my prototype work... Simply put, make one side of a vertical wheel 'heavier' than the other side and the wheel will turn in that direction... but how do you constantly 'shift' the weight so that one side remains heavier??? (that's the secret) .... Incredibly simple and obvious once you see it... I of course don't want to boast too much until the working unit is complete (it will only take a few days to assemble)... I know seeing is believing... I have a couple questions: (1) Do I have to prove how much energy it can produce or can a wheel of this nature just turn indefinitely? I feel that the proof only needs to be the wheel turning, all the generators and gears that would hook up to it have already been invented. (2) Most importantly... Once I complete this project and it is successful, I would like to form a company that will exploit this machine to its fullest... I would need a highly successful and qualified team of individuals to do this with... As of now, I have no one in mind but am willing to get advice from you... As I am NOT a qualified professional myself, my role in the company would not be President or any other high rank... I just want to be involved in Research and Development... I know a machine of this magnitude will make everyone involved automatically wealthy so money won't really be a factor (but it helps of course)... My main objective is to see these machines enhance the quality of mankind and nature... One more point to make: I've made a program using Visual Basic that calculates (using the data from my test models) to tell me what dimensions of the wheel will work and what won't... Any response on this would be greatly appreciated, Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 12:44:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA22114; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:43:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:43:46 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:42:00 -1000 Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904051600.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"Zx3If3.0.JP5.n9H2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rod - Do you actually have, at this time, a prototype model that actually continues to turn on its own? I don't mean one that you feel certainly would if you could just get this or that adjustment refined, or get a smoother bearing or something. I mean one that's complete and running NOW? I'm open minded enough that if a working device is presented, I would be forced to adjust my concept of physics to adapt to the experimental reality. Short of that though, I don't think it's at all "Incredibly simple and obvious once you see it". Ithink it's simply not possible, and you've got yourself convinced of something that is incorrect. So again, because in your message you seemed to be a bit vague on this terribly important point, please answer this one question honestly and directly: do you now have a device that runs continuously by virtue of a constantly imbalanced wheel? If yes, then you've got news for us on this list. If no, then we've got news for you: don't quit your day job. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 13:56:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA14975; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:55:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:55:44 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <1f0de110.243a7c74@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:52:04 EDT Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ewz7V.0.qf3.GDI2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/4/99 6:54:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, aaa@texas.net writes: << How about it being a big magnetic bubble compressing and containing the high voltage/current...it could then pass easily through anything except iron. Of course, it must have a special frequency to make that which it encounters transparent, as light is to glass.......hmmmm......... Joe Portman >> When you say "current" it would seem to me to be unable to pass through materials-- particularly conductive ones. My theory (no 1 of several) is that it is a two-toroid of electric and magnetic fields, alternating at some frequency, where the collapse of one causes the build up of the other and vice-versa. I even discharged some high voltage/high energy capacitors into 38 guage (small dia.) wire loops to generate some balls. It looked successful-- they seemed to persist a second or two, but when I looked at them with a photodiode, it was clear that what I was seeing was my visual persistance from the *bright* flash. But it seemed like a good idea-- Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 14:21:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06335; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:16:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <32366e42.243a8175@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:13:25 EDT Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"PoKxa3.0.qY1.3XI2t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/5/99 9:49:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Grod123456@aol.com writes: << I have a couple questions: (1) Do I have to prove how much energy it can produce or can a wheel of this nature just turn indefinitely? I feel that the proof only needs to be the wheel turning, all the generators and gears that would hook up to it have already been invented. (2) Most importantly... Once I complete this project and it is successful, I would like to form a company that will exploit this machine to its fullest... I would need a highly successful and qualified team of individuals to do this with... As of now, I have no one in mind but am willing to get advice from you... As I am NOT a qualified professional myself, my role in the company would not be President or any other high rank... I just want to be involved in Research and Development... I know a machine of this magnitude will make everyone involved automatically wealthy so money won't really be a factor (but it helps of course)... My main objective is to see these machines enhance the quality of mankind and nature... >> 1) If the wheel just spins indefinitely against friction at at least the same speed or faster you will have proven your point 2) any person in this group you convince of step 1 will be more than willing to give you advice and help with step 2. Good Luck Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 14:35:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04763; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:29:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:29:08 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: Grod123456@aol.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:50:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel Message-ID: <19990405.142430.-310899.1.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,5-6,8-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"b0gv62.0.7A1.aiI2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Your announcement will cause many sighs of "Ho Hum, Yet another overbalanced wheel" No matter how you move the weights and mechanisms inside the wheel, you still have to lift some mass some height against gravity which requires work in order to store the potential energy to turn the wheel. (Energy = mass multiplied by acceleration of gravity multiplied by height) I don't believe you have invented a working perpetual motion machine. Unless you show a working model of course ! : ) Tim ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 15:17:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30122; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:15:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:15:24 -0700 Message-ID: <37091A17.89636A60@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 15:16:23 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel References: <199904051600.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VZm9v.0.ZM7.yNJ2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com No offense intended, I applaude Rods efforts, intent etc... but I'm guessing its just at the idea stage.... if there was a working prototype well that would be something entirely of a different creature. AS for not quitting the day job, I agree... but still keep trying you just might break thru! Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Rod - > > Do you actually have, at this time, a prototype model that actually > continues to turn on its own? I don't mean one that you feel certainly would > if you could just get this or that adjustment refined, or get a smoother > bearing or something. I mean one that's complete and running NOW? > > I'm open minded enough that if a working device is presented, I would be > forced to adjust my concept of physics to adapt to the experimental reality. > Short of that though, I don't think it's at all "Incredibly simple and > obvious once you see it". Ithink it's simply not possible, and you've got > yourself convinced of something that is incorrect. > > So again, because in your message you seemed to be a bit vague on this > terribly important point, please answer this one question honestly and > directly: do you now have a device that runs continuously by virtue of a > constantly imbalanced wheel? > > If yes, then you've got news for us on this list. > > If no, then we've got news for you: don't quit your day job. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 17:48:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10485; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:47:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:47:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199904060047.TAA01691@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:45:14 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dkc8m.0.kZ2.PcL2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I hope someday that someone who doesn't know any better will surprise both of us....it's happened before !! Joe Portman ========= ---------- > From: tv@juno.com > To: Grod123456@aol.com > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 12:50 PM > > Your announcement will cause many sighs of "Ho Hum, Yet another > overbalanced wheel" > > No matter how you move the weights and mechanisms inside the wheel, you > still have to lift some mass some height against gravity which requires > work in order to store the potential energy to turn the wheel. > > (Energy = mass multiplied by acceleration of gravity multiplied by > height) > > I don't believe you have invented a working perpetual motion machine. > > Unless you show a working model of course ! : ) > > > > Tim > ( tv@juno.com ) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 17:57:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA14708; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:57:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:57:07 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:50:07 EDT Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Grod123456@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"grO6w3.0.ib3.YlL2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well I hope this is it !!! Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 18:12:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA21555; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:12:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:12:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3709438A.8D12C3E9@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:13:14 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel References: <199904060047.TAA01691@mw3.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dqsR41.0.WG5.izL2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Joe I totally agree!!! Lets hope that Rod's idea does just that! Don Joe Portman wrote: > > I hope someday that someone who doesn't know any better will surprise both > of us....it's happened before !! > Joe Portman > ========= > > ---------- > > From: tv@juno.com > > To: Grod123456@aol.com > > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > > Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 12:50 PM > > > > Your announcement will cause many sighs of "Ho Hum, Yet another > > overbalanced wheel" > > > > No matter how you move the weights and mechanisms inside the wheel, you > > still have to lift some mass some height against gravity which requires > > work in order to store the potential energy to turn the wheel. > > > > (Energy = mass multiplied by acceleration of gravity multiplied by > > height) > > > > I don't believe you have invented a working perpetual motion machine. > > > > Unless you show a working model of course ! : ) > > > > > > > > Tim > > ( tv@juno.com ) > > -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 19:02:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05525; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:01:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:01:35 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <1a373a65.243ac417@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:57:43 EDT Subject: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Grod123456@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"iLS2D3.0.EM1.-hM2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If anyone would like to discuss my plans in detail and please prove me wrong (so I don't waste any more money), I would like to send a nondisclosure agreement and after that is signed and sent back I would be happy to send pictures and discuss (on the phone) any questions you may have... If you shoot my theories down, great, I don't waste anymore money... However, if you agree with me than maybe you can post something here to give me a little credibility... Thanks, Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 19:05:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA06870; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:05:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:05:07 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:02:50 -1000 Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904052221.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"8obEt2.0.Bh1.IlM2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rod - You wrote: > I of course don't want to boast too much until the working unit is complete [...] And then in a following post wrote: > Well I hope this is it !!! We all do. But still you didn't directly answer the question I asked: do you now have a device that runs continuously by virtue of a constantly imbalanced wheel? Perhaps you were clear enough in the quote above, and the answer is 'no', you don't have a working machine. Maybe you're a little uncomfortable admitting that? It won't work Rod, sorry. Work requires force (in this case mass in gravity) through distance. This leaves some of your mass lower than when it started out. In each cycle, the mass would have to move back up against gravity, and the same amount of work is required, but this time its direction vector has the opposite sign. This is very fundamental, and no arrangement of wheels and weights can defeat this. The only thing that ever happens is that it's all too easy for humans to lose track of all the factors on paper, and it can *look* like you can just scoot the 'used' mass back across the wheel (via any of a number of mechanisms offered with such propositions) to a position that will lift it back up the other side of the wheel and over the top to the point where it can again pull down on the "imbabanced" side of the wheel. I won't try to discourage you from trying to build the device though. You probably don't believe this message and the others saying essentially the same thing. The compelling nature of the imbalanced wheel vision is too strong. Nor perhaps, would even a thorough examination of the all the diagrams of the numerous attempts which have come before and used the exact same principle you propose to use. The lesson will not be truly learned until you spend your own precious time and money for the privilege of seeing first hand how rigid nature can be about her rules on energy flow through mechanical systems. The only real danger is if you never see the flaw directly, and always think you're just an adjustment away, or a bigger wheel or snazzier mechanisms away from success. A sweetly balanced mechanism operating at upper 90's percent efficiency can be very convincing that you're 'almost there' - because you *are* almost there. Forever-almost. People have thrown away the better part of their lives and fortunes by being permanently caught in that zone of delusion. Watch out you don't join them. Keep an open mind, Rod. You'll need it to correctly interpret your experimental evidence when it comes in. Have fun, and good luck. No one can completely rule out a miracle, now can they? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 21:07:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15386; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:06:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:06:39 -0700 Message-ID: <370987D8.FA92C633@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:04:40 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel References: <199904052221.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ok_nX2.0.Jm3.EXO2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oh come on rick, sure most over balanced wheels are just mistakes in comprehension, however that does not mean that a wheel can't tap energy by some other means, yes sure mathematically none of them will work but neither will motion rectifiers which many have been shown to work. (and yes some are just static friction but many are not) The point is that the laws inertia are not as straight forward as you believe, that is the main secret to these mechanical machines. Mathematics can only predict what will happen with all of the variables, There are important parts missing. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, as it is over balanced wheels I don't believe will work, however *inertially unbalanced wheels will work. *Well I think it should be a word! John Berry Rick Monteverde wrote: > Rod - > > You wrote: > > > I of course don't want to boast too much until the working unit is > complete [...] > > And then in a following post wrote: > > > Well I hope this is it !!! > > We all do. But still you didn't directly answer the question I asked: > > do you now have a device that runs continuously by virtue > of a constantly imbalanced wheel? > > Perhaps you were clear enough in the quote above, and the answer is 'no', > you don't have a working machine. Maybe you're a little uncomfortable > admitting that? > > It won't work Rod, sorry. Work requires force (in this case mass in gravity) > through distance. This leaves some of your mass lower than when it started > out. In each cycle, the mass would have to move back up against gravity, and > the same amount of work is required, but this time its direction vector has > the opposite sign. This is very fundamental, and no arrangement of wheels > and weights can defeat this. The only thing that ever happens is that it's > all too easy for humans to lose track of all the factors on paper, and it > can *look* like you can just scoot the 'used' mass back across the wheel > (via any of a number of mechanisms offered with such propositions) to a > position that will lift it back up the other side of the wheel and over the > top to the point where it can again pull down on the "imbabanced" side of > the wheel. > > I won't try to discourage you from trying to build the device though. You > probably don't believe this message and the others saying essentially the > same thing. The compelling nature of the imbalanced wheel vision is too > strong. Nor perhaps, would even a thorough examination of the all the > diagrams of the numerous attempts which have come before and used the exact > same principle you propose to use. The lesson will not be truly learned > until you spend your own precious time and money for the privilege of seeing > first hand how rigid nature can be about her rules on energy flow through > mechanical systems. The only real danger is if you never see the flaw > directly, and always think you're just an adjustment away, or a bigger wheel > or snazzier mechanisms away from success. A sweetly balanced mechanism > operating at upper 90's percent efficiency can be very convincing that > you're 'almost there' - because you *are* almost there. Forever-almost. > People have thrown away the better part of their lives and fortunes by being > permanently caught in that zone of delusion. Watch out you don't join them. > > Keep an open mind, Rod. You'll need it to correctly interpret your > experimental evidence when it comes in. Have fun, and good luck. No one can > completely rule out a miracle, now can they? > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 22:29:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13418; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:29:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:29:00 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:50:33 EDT Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Grod123456@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"G8S3f.0.VH3.RkP2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com But, mathematically, with every degree of rotation I totaled up the torque on the axis from the left side versus the right side and the left always has a positive number ... Oh yes, it fluctuates, but the closest it comes to balancing with the right is 114 lbs. at the axis... the greatest difference being over 300 lbs. The wheel stands at 8 feet (it could be more condense but this is what I started with so I'm trying to keep it cheap) By the way, this is the formula I'm using to calculate the force (please correct me if I'm wrong) Force at axis = Force (weight) X length of arm (leverage) X Cosine of angle from horizontal (since gravity works straight down, the horizontal plane is maximum torque... therefore, the horizontal arm is degree zero ... Cosine of zero = 1 (maximum force) Cosine of 90 degrees = 0 (no force turning the wheel left or right when the arm is perfectly vertical) Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 23:01:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25164; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:00:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:00:43 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <90bf6558.243afc9d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:58:53 EDT Subject: Re: Fw: Gas $$$$ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: MKSBoysal@aol.com To: undisclosed-recipients:; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA25112 Resent-Message-ID: <"4bPh_3.0.596.ACQ2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/5/99 11:26:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, immunehealth@ycsi.net writes: << Subj: Fw: Gas $$$$ Date: 4/5/99 11:26:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time From: immunehealth@ycsi.net (Radiant Health Resources) Reply-to: immunehealth@ycsi.net (Radiant Health Resources) To: xiaolimoon@yahoo.com (Xiaoli Zhang), TWalker110@aol.com (Tjuana Walker), USISpace@aol.com (Mary Lou Walen), rungson@earthlink.net (Raphael Ungson), suzan@mcn.net (Jerice Tessier), szehngang@aol.com (Gail & Bill Szeher), tana@scs.unr.edu (Tana Shadrick), jctmgmt@foothill.net (Linda P. Shadley), TABULA@best.com (Gary Shade), mroach@mcn.net (Margaret Roach), Carol_PROVAN@Trimble.com (Carol Provan), Smorgain@oaklandnet.com (Sharon M. Orgain), PeaceBwith@aol.com (Nancy Newhart), fineart@ycsi.net (Dan Murray), hbrucem@aol.com (Bruce McFarlane), iztacci@ycsi.net (Marta McCary), mtcarmel@avicom.net (Carmel Matuseski), shirkee@juno.com (Shirlee M. Luluch), a1tetra@earthlink.net (Anita Kulp), Amokoenig@aol.com (Amo & Warren Koenig), yrpub@alpinet.net (Philip Hoag), jmnhlly@pacifer.com (Holly & Jim Harrington), alomax1@juno.com (Aloma & Max Greggerson), marisol@smartnet.ca (Marisol Gauthier), brawle@flash.net (Alan Engleberg), cliffbd@avicom.net (Cliff & Ruth Dutton), davies@ycsi.net (Davies Anderson), Feltman@worldnet.att.net (David Feltman), 1STCHOICE@prodigy.net (Linda Conners), jacjwj74@pacbell.net (Richard Cheung), mksboysal@aol.com (Mehmet Boysal), bliss@design-crew.com (Cathie Bliss), SBLAIR@CONLAW.com (Samantha Blair), unistan@webtv.net (Paul Berger), gyaltsen@earthlink.net (Jeffrey Beach), rbarlow@micron.net (Rich Barlow), multifamilyloan@sprintmail.com (Bob Arrowood) File: nicchan.vcf (285 bytes) DL Time (19200 bps): < 1 minute -----Original Message----- From: Nicole Chan To: Bill Mathis ; Chantal Brault ; Denis Goyette ; Edward Burnett ; Françoise Melançon ; Gabriel Ouellet ; Henry Cheung ; Howdy Meghdadi ; Joe Bentley ; Marisol Gauthier ; Peter Leung ; Pouzeli inc. ; rene tupaz ; Roman Montika ; Stéphane Plante ; warren Jang ; James Wu ; Jean-Noel Chan-Duhon ; Régine Kam-Thong Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 1:23 PM Subject: Gas $$$$ >>I got this in the mail. Seems like a good idea. It's worth a try >anyway. >>Seems to me it might take more than one day. Anyway for what its >worth.... >> >>________________________________________________________ >> >>"THE GREAT GAS OUT" >>It's time we did something about the price of >>gasoline in America! We >>are >>all sick and tired of high prices when there are >>literally millions of >>gallons in storage. >>Know what I found out? If there was just ONE day >>when no one purchased >>any >>gasoline, prices would drop drastically. The >>so-called oil cartel has >>decided to slow production by some 2 million >>barrels per day to drive up >>the >>price. I have decided to see how many Americans we >>can get to NOT BUY >>ANY >>GASOLINE on one particular day! >>Let's have a GAS OUT! Do not buy any gasoline on >>APRIL 30, 1999!!!!! >>Buy on Thursday before, or Saturday after. Do not >>buy any gasoline on >>FRIDAY, APRIL 30, 1999. >>Wanna help? Send this message to everyone you >>know. Ask them to do the >>same. >>All we need is a few million to participate in >>order to make a >>difference. >>We CAN make a difference. >> >> eddie@grrtech.com >> > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 23:02:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25483; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:01:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:01:44 -0700 Message-ID: <008f01be7ff2$96b65ee0$12684fc6@default> From: "mrand@access" To: "freenrg-l" Subject: Fw: SEA Over-Balanced Wheel Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:59:01 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"RYeUf3.0.0E6.7DQ2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick and freenrg, Third attempt. The attached gif file is now 9kb vs 39kb. Was it viewable? Regards, Michael -----Original Message----- From: mrand@access To: freenrg-l <> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:47 PM Subject: SEA Over-Balanced Wheel > > >Rick, >What do you think of this Over-Balanced Wheel design using magnets, from the >latest SEA journal? No info on the designer. Could it self-spin? >Regards, Michael > > > > begin 666 SEA Mag Wheel 1.gif M1TE&.#EAT &#`M ``````/___RP`````T &#`@`"_HP/I\OM#Z.:LJN;@N_L[O)T\*CC2=HO&(1!*3&=&EI-*)3(TE M,[D$39\^(<#['0;'X:]9;#ZGU^RV^PV/R^=OM-Q^ONKW? ^%: 41V.NW')-Y]KUZ/:N7GQ[^W+,ZS?P.,"" M"P\VC-A#FDR+UU118S&QY&(NJ$"I6F'8L\DHM82Q8^$S9B.!GGV.(HHP9YM> M0O,RMJLR;":+33T`84XUZ2FKE3TYG>?VKLM.$"F.8B-$\$Z&`/$V#EUH;^:A MQ2 H0ZEUJ;I,C:.=X'S[(N[1E0#'_L&B[BOKE:97#AGR$ [8JX^?_0@HFG^QQ48?>."YA$N!`S6& M@H3E669?4PSZYTAM35P68G$#YE9@R(*`F5W/;%PH)!#XD@BBAJ6>(AU\YV9 MY2=23MG&F1=%UM)+5[J(GGV ))@F03.R:7D'HRYTGQ[=FH=>CU>6FH?8!IH:@8(6IJJM+DJ6JK>[#J M:JRORDHKA[7>BFNN;Y:J:Z^^_DH/JL .2VRQU61J_FRRRBX;#*_,/@MMM%$^ M*FVU@EJ+[;79;EL(M]Z2\NVW4,(:KE3DEKO:N>CZJ>ZZAK7K[F3"QDMOO;C" M:V]A^.:KU[[\^N7OOW$%++!=!!?,UL$(#[RPL@IG4]J-#S?<8#V.F0EBD*A. M3/%N^EQC!7&!'KEDQPR'5R&3,)9L\DP_YF=DF *B6-Z=+4/#,2@A8\C;)BJ. 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MDC#-TV/ ,S[ILS[M\S[Q,S_U-)&Z-$G7]$8-[TMW_O1,)2Q+O12@X/2DTA1* MZ;10`950TU!.U_1.&54Z[W1,Q[!,]W1);^T$&U--@?10!351O]1.ZW1#L_-3 M[]))194/^^S&$/0C!55(T11,TS!,79!3NS14MZI1,5%4']56I_,X>?41"T4T M+\U4ZVM*6952*]55&1%+\317=U5,2_/G[D^O?!,0JP,Q['(X7U%,G?.R3E6H M.K6TV/068]6J+JI1Q6TS/TH=7^XB*Q+-9!+XI/,3[1'B*BG8X*+_AJ]VB'55 M^W1'Q_55EQ%1G973NK4,;0][L+4C19->]S(]"5'53C/EHI,+]T^L1(I?P958 M%35@1($\U6O$R2D\6,IXQ M^52Q^TYHR2 5S#KV66EV=;)2*V-N:+\FYX@T1V^IW*2TZC12:>,'9\L0:CNH MLY*6:IT-:V6HQ+15:]-NTKPV115P&,.VO#KD:LO6@"@2;=.V%0?3:=MV:X+"J9_C#P;UG4`FM6<&?EQSB@````.P`` ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 23:45:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA17128; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37099104.C99067A9@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:43:48 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: SEA Over-Balanced Wheel References: <008f01be7ff2$96b65ee0$12684fc6@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mMN9n.0.VB4.kqQ2t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com looks interesting.... mrand@access wrote: > > Rick and freenrg, > Third attempt. The attached gif file is now 9kb vs 39kb. Was it viewable? > Regards, Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: mrand@access > To: freenrg-l <> > Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:47 PM > Subject: SEA Over-Balanced Wheel > > > > > > >Rick, > >What do you think of this Over-Balanced Wheel design using magnets, from > the > >latest SEA journal? No info on the designer. Could it self-spin? > >Regards, Michael > > > > > > > > > > [Image] -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 23:44:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03220; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:17 -0700 Message-ID: <37099151.41D429EB@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:45:05 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel References: <199904052221.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> <370987D8.FA92C633@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GEFvK1.0.8o.0rQ2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey John and folks John Berry wrote: > > Oh come on rick, sure most over balanced wheels are just mistakes in > comprehension, however that does not mean that a wheel can't tap energy by some > other means, yes sure mathematically none of them will work but neither will > motion rectifiers which many have been shown to work. (and yes some are just > static friction but many are not) > The point is that the laws inertia are not as straight forward as you believe, > that is the main secret to these mechanical machines. > Mathematics can only predict what will happen with all of the variables, There > are important parts missing. > > Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, as it is over balanced wheels I > don't believe will work, however *inertially unbalanced wheels will work. > > *Well I think it should be a word! Thats sort of the crux of the matter isn't it? The hope really is that something of an anomalous nature has escaped our consensus reality and that the 'cookbook' scientists practicing tired recipes have been unable to see the forest through the trees. In my opinion, Rick is very right about not getting caught up in a cyclical trap of kicking the same old can over and over and thinking you're almost there... another good analogy is the fly hitting the window over and over again.... but then even sometimes, in very rare cases that fly actually does find a crack in the glass and makes good his escape... perhaps the answer is to balance it out somehow... proceed with experimentation and investigating the unknown but be aware of what appears to be constraints. > > John Berry > > Rick Monteverde wrote: > > > Rod - > > > > You wrote: > > > > > I of course don't want to boast too much until the working unit is > > complete [...] > > > > And then in a following post wrote: > > > > > Well I hope this is it !!! > > > > We all do. But still you didn't directly answer the question I asked: > > > > do you now have a device that runs continuously by virtue > > of a constantly imbalanced wheel? > > > > Perhaps you were clear enough in the quote above, and the answer is 'no', > > you don't have a working machine. Maybe you're a little uncomfortable > > admitting that? > > > > It won't work Rod, sorry. Work requires force (in this case mass in gravity) > > through distance. This leaves some of your mass lower than when it started > > out. In each cycle, the mass would have to move back up against gravity, and > > the same amount of work is required, but this time its direction vector has > > the opposite sign. This is very fundamental, and no arrangement of wheels > > and weights can defeat this. The only thing that ever happens is that it's > > all too easy for humans to lose track of all the factors on paper, and it > > can *look* like you can just scoot the 'used' mass back across the wheel > > (via any of a number of mechanisms offered with such propositions) to a > > position that will lift it back up the other side of the wheel and over the > > top to the point where it can again pull down on the "imbabanced" side of > > the wheel. > > > > I won't try to discourage you from trying to build the device though. You > > probably don't believe this message and the others saying essentially the > > same thing. The compelling nature of the imbalanced wheel vision is too > > strong. Nor perhaps, would even a thorough examination of the all the > > diagrams of the numerous attempts which have come before and used the exact > > same principle you propose to use. The lesson will not be truly learned > > until you spend your own precious time and money for the privilege of seeing > > first hand how rigid nature can be about her rules on energy flow through > > mechanical systems. The only real danger is if you never see the flaw > > directly, and always think you're just an adjustment away, or a bigger wheel > > or snazzier mechanisms away from success. A sweetly balanced mechanism > > operating at upper 90's percent efficiency can be very convincing that > > you're 'almost there' - because you *are* almost there. Forever-almost. > > People have thrown away the better part of their lives and fortunes by being > > permanently caught in that zone of delusion. Watch out you don't join them. > > > > Keep an open mind, Rod. You'll need it to correctly interpret your > > experimental evidence when it comes in. Have fun, and good luck. No one can > > completely rule out a miracle, now can they? > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 23:44:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03253; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3709914A.B37D6F0D@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:44:58 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Philip Kramer References: <36E17C42.CF7C0447@inquo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nGhl-3.0.eo.2rQ2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ever hear more about this? Mancuso wrote: > > Hello All > A heard that a person by the name of Philip Kramer who played in the > band called Iron Butterfly is missing. The strange part is that this > person developed a math formula that allows for communications to travel > faster then the speed of light. I have been trying to research this > rumor to find more facts. If anyone has any information, please let me > know. > > Michael Mancuso > mancuso@inquo.net -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 23:44:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03191; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:14 -0700 Message-ID: <37099157.97A48B92@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:45:11 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel References: <199904052221.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SOGqi.0.mn.-qQ2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey Rod et al Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Rod - > > You wrote: > > > I of course don't want to boast too much until the working unit is > complete [...] > > And then in a following post wrote: > > > Well I hope this is it !!! > > We all do. But still you didn't directly answer the question I asked: > > do you now have a device that runs continuously by virtue > of a constantly imbalanced wheel? > > Perhaps you were clear enough in the quote above, and the answer is 'no', > you don't have a working machine. Maybe you're a little uncomfortable > admitting that? well... he's just giving it a whack tho eh? no harm in that? ;) > It won't work Rod, sorry. Work requires force (in this case mass in gravity) > through distance. This leaves some of your mass lower than when it started > out. In each cycle, the mass would have to move back up against gravity, and > the same amount of work is required, but this time its direction vector has > the opposite sign. This is very fundamental, and no arrangement of wheels > and weights can defeat this. The only thing that ever happens is that it's > all too easy for humans to lose track of all the factors on paper, and it > can *look* like you can just scoot the 'used' mass back across the wheel > (via any of a number of mechanisms offered with such propositions) to a > position that will lift it back up the other side of the wheel and over the > top to the point where it can again pull down on the "imbabanced" side of > the wheel. > > I won't try to discourage you from trying to build the device though. You > probably don't believe this message and the others saying essentially the > same thing. The compelling nature of the imbalanced wheel vision is too > strong. Nor perhaps, would even a thorough examination of the all the > diagrams of the numerous attempts which have come before and used the exact > same principle you propose to use. The lesson will not be truly learned > until you spend your own precious time and money for the privilege of seeing > first hand how rigid nature can be about her rules on energy flow through > mechanical systems. The only real danger is if you never see the flaw > directly, and always think you're just an adjustment away, or a bigger wheel > or snazzier mechanisms away from success. A sweetly balanced mechanism > operating at upper 90's percent efficiency can be very convincing that > you're 'almost there' - because you *are* almost there. Forever-almost. > People have thrown away the better part of their lives and fortunes by being > permanently caught in that zone of delusion. Watch out you don't join them. > > Keep an open mind, Rod. You'll need it to correctly interpret your > experimental evidence when it comes in. Have fun, and good luck. No one can > completely rule out a miracle, now can they? Well Rick raises some obvious good points... of course its always tough to try and determine where that boundary between kicking the same old can and discovering something new amidst the old, lies. But then the best of science is often found by someone tinkering with something and blissfully ignoring the 'rules' that perceived consensus reality seeks to impose.... lets hope for a miracle. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 5 23:44:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03284; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:44:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37099146.C420D688@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:44:54 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: David Colishaw - Bessler's wheel thoughts - MicroSpace! - DavidC] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------18C8C7C1A86EF166D6B6E097" Resent-Message-ID: <"LmBxT3.0.2p.4rQ2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------18C8C7C1A86EF166D6B6E097 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David's a relatively infamous researcher into the GIT alt tech., he's taken some creative stabs at the un-balanced wheel scenario... no luck yet... but still fun to look at! see attached -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com --------------18C8C7C1A86EF166D6B6E097 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from priv-edtnps04-hme0.telusplanet.net ([192.168.98.204]) by priv-edtnps06-hme0.telusplanet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 220 ID# 0-51631L100S100V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:33:43 -0700 Received: from opengovt.open.org ([199.2.104.1]) by priv-edtnps04-hme0.telusplanet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:32:08 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by opengovt.open.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA26873; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:28:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from opengovt163.open.org(199.2.104.163) by opengovt.open.org via smap (V2.0) id xma026838; Sun, 22 Nov 98 18:28:00 -0800 Message-ID: <003b01be1688$ae6572c0$966802c7@davidc> From: "David E. Cowlishaw" To: Cc: "Wolfgang Hann" , "Amanda J. Gilbert" , "A.H. Forge" , "Dann McCreary" , "David E. Cowlishaw" , "Jim Wilson" , "Joao Carlos de Andrade" , "Sam Smith" Subject: Re: Inquiry - Bessler's wheel thoughts - MicroSpace! - DavidC Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:44:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE163F.C1DEAFE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE163F.C1DEAFE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Don J. S. Adams To: DavidC Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 3:35 AM Subject: Inquiry >Hi, > >About 2 years ago I saw the neatest animation on your site of your >thoughts on the bessler wheel. I think it was a gif or something. >Do you still have that image? Also, any further thoughts on the Bessler >wheel? > >Regards >-- >We must accept the truth, >even if it changes our >point of view. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Don J. S. Adams >Managing Consultant >Microsoft >Main Campus, Bldg 1 >Redmond, WA >USA > >425-882-3431 USA >403-998-4066 Canada > >http://www.intergate.bc.ca/business/rave >------------------- Don; I've been neglecting my web sites lately, and my fortunecity site still has the animated document page you've refered to at: http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/111/bessler.htm . Of course you could drop back to the index, and find a lot of broken links I need to attend to (file transfers are an excercise in massive frustration there), but the big files (animations) ARE still there, grandfathered in from a 1 Meg limit imposed by fortunecity a few months back. James Hurl's historic first confirmation of my inertial thrust invention video is there (3.3 megs - indiegit.mov), as well as a larger fine frame resolution of a 3 to 1 geared GIT animation acceleration motion study (3grgit32.gif, boringly slow but accurate! ;). I've not had the Bessler page on for More than a year, I'd have to check, ok, March of this year, you need a vacation Don, your time sense is getting a BIT distorted! ;) I've not had much feedback on that side project, and that I have had, was mostly negative, and when I asked about details (like was the angular moment transfer means, from the rolling weights to the turning frame adequately sufficient), I wasn't informed. Since you're interested, here's a strap stop animation attatched, that I sent to one kid that did a fair job of doing the top 4 slot graphic (I didn't intend that one built, it's just a visual aid, and far short of a good angular to linear translator), just 'cause I have it, and very few individuals seem interested, so I pay attention to those that are! ;) As the page states, it's pure speculation, and only presented as a thought extension of my inertial thrust experiments and theories, in effect the motor/generator analogy of electrical to motion (and back), substituting acceleration (& gravity) for electricity. As an interesting serendipity, I've been contacted by German inventors that seem to have succeeded in an "overunity" device, and from my very rudimentary Deutch, appears to also use a "symmetry breaking" motion dynamic, with spin and tangential acceleration exchange profiles. I'm going to have to find a good translation program, don't have time to polish up on technical German! Here's the site, it went on the net maybe 2 days ago: http://members.aol.com/wuerthx . My contact there is Wolfgang Hann, and he's sent me extensive diagrams, pictures and text (auf deutch), and like trying to read a one-handed magazine from another country, I'm just able to understand the content of the pictures! ;) I'm working on it though, in my spare time. My thoughts are that it (a gravity tapping machine) is not only possible, but it's quite likely that the motion profiles that generate a gravity-like thrust on the frame of the GIT machine, would be reversible, that is gain internal motion (energy from our perspective), from being accelerated (the ground pushing you away from the center of the earth is one example). It would likely have to be timing shifted to work (as in motor/generator force aspect differences), but my own experiences earlier in life with the scarey underbelly of the oil industry, makes me shy of doing too much in that exploration. Launching inertial propulsion is enough of a heresy, and a difficult enough effort without getting burned at the stake! ;) ANYway Don, hope this is what you wanted to know, I also have one of my first animations that WAS on the net in May of 1997 (one that got knocked off of my server for nearly a month of every other day, when the "worm wars" were plaguing me), it's 253 kb and called "gravmotr.avi", and isn't currently on the net, so let me know if you want a copy mailed to you. Thanks for the inquiry, and if you get a chance, you might talk up "MicroSpace" to the big guy, interesting conversation material anyway! Since the main thruster concept is now public domain, it may take a well-heeled footrace to achieve a strong first presense as the incentive (rather than a monopoly, oops, I know, bad word, NOT pc! ;) Talk with you later Don! 22 November 1998 - CC: Focus Group; Wolfgang Hann =========================================== +__ "David Eugene Cowlishaw" ____+ +_____ http://www.open.org/davidc/UFODrive.htm _____+ +___A simple working mechanical inertial thrust driver!___+ +__ Forums and Chat at: http://www.ctoday.com/git __+ + http://www.inter-corporate.com/forums/engineering.html + +_ http://mercury.beseen.com/chat/rooms/w/4610/ _+ =========================================== ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE163F.C1DEAFE0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="BesTrap.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BesTrap.gif" R0lGODlhyADIANMAAAgICAwMFBgYICwsMCgsRDQwMDg0NDxEUFRUpFCEpFiIvGCYyGiY1Gio1NCY 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<"bnekJ.0.jh3.RGR2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com John - >Oh come on rick, sure most over balanced wheels are just mistakes in >comprehension, however that does not mean that a wheel can't tap energy by some >other means, yes sure mathematically none of them will work but neither will >motion rectifiers which many have been shown to work. No, they don't. None of them do. The only one superficially like these that *might* is the Woodward device, which is really not at all a "Dean Drive" type of machine, but something very different entirely - it's not strictly mechanical but involves secondary energy flows for a *very* slight effect. But even that might not really work, although some experiments have looked initially positive. >The point is that the laws inertia are not as straight forward as you believe, >that is the main secret to these mechanical machines. This is not correct. The laws of inertia are indeed straightforward, and mechanical devices based on unbalanced wheels or reciprocating "Dean Drive" type mechanisms all have one thing in common: none of them work. >Mathematics can only predict what will happen with all of the variables, There >are important parts missing. Then either include those variables or point to a genuine working device. No one has ever done either one of those things. >Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, as it is over balanced wheels I >don't believe will work, however *inertially unbalanced wheels will work. > >*Well I think it should be a word! John, here's the problem: the baby hasn't even been born yet, and it's infintessimally close to absolutely certain that it never will. Not to that family at least. No mechanical devices with unbalanced wheels or reciprocating elements actually work. Now gyros under certain circumstances, I'm not quite as sure. There's a whole 'nother door that might be still open just a tiny crack. At least it still seems that way to me. But these wheels and Dean Drives have been a very cold dead end for a *very* long time now. They've been tried over and over and over again. They have a long history. They never work. Why won't people just move on to other areas where there might be some potential yet unexplored? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 00:33:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA22757; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:32:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:32:45 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:31:05 -1000 Subject: Re: Philip Kramer From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904060349.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"6OO4A3.0.PZ5.TYR2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Don - > A heard that a person by the name of Philip Kramer who played in the > band called Iron Butterfly is missing. The strange part is that this > person developed a math formula that allows for communications to travel > faster then the speed of light. I have been trying to research this > rumor to find more facts. If anyone has any information, please let me > know. One of the great urban legends. I hear the gentleman stepped out, and he ain't headed back this way again! Seriously! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 00:33:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA22648; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:32:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:32:19 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <48fb272c.243b1245@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 03:31:17 EDT Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Grod123456@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Im7-a.0.nX5.2YR2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I believe this will be my last post to this group... I initially decided to post to this group to possibly get some help and/or advice... Although a few of you have helped (thankyou) the majority is closing their eyes to my ideas without even seeing my ideas! I know I'm faced with the impossible, but isn't that why we all are even in this group? We all must have some desire or question whether all laws that were decided hundreds of years ago may need a little revision? I don't know if my wheel will work yet... However, even the math says IT WILL !!! Also, what if , by my submission of my ideas, give one of you one more 'tip' that may make your idea work instead of mine? Now isn't that worth at least discovering how far I've achieved? (or anyone else's ideas for that matter) I'm tired of getting the emails that say "Rod here's my opinion, it won't work" Ok ... How do you know? You haven't even saw it yet??? I don't care if there have been 'thousands' of failures ! It only takes one... Thats all I have to say... If anyone is still interested in talking to me, I'll email privately... Thanks for your time ... No offense to you Bill, you have a good idea with this website... Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 00:41:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27513; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:41:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:41:12 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:39:32 -1000 Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904060357.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"bHRuQ3.0.oj6.OgR2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Don - > another good analogy is the fly hitting the window > over and over again.... but then even sometimes, in > very rare cases that fly actually does find a crack > in the glass and makes good his escape... perhaps > the answer is to balance it out somehow... proceed > with experimentation and investigating the > unknown but be aware of what appears to be > constraints. Like I wrote Rod via e-mail, I hope if after he looks at all the similar designs and still wants to try it, he builds a relatively inexpensive rig and treats it as a hobby and a learning experience. No harm in that, certainly. Maybe good even. I just don't like to think that someone might get their hopes up too far or spend too much money on something which I know has a snoball's chance because they think there might really a big payday at the end. But tinkering is good. I'm a tinker, or at least it's my hobby. I say go for it if it makes you happy. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 00:57:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA00558; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:56:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:56:47 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:55:05 -1000 Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904060413.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"Eh-_P2.0.Y8._uR2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rod - > I initially decided to post to this group to possibly > get some help and/or advice... You've gotten exactly that! And it has been honest and accurate too, and without ANY ridicule and flames which I'm sure you know you can go anywhere and get, like the newsgroups. It's just not what you wanted to hear maybe, but it's what had to be said. And please bear in mind that I am, as are many others on this list, a person who has a positive outlook generally towards the idea that there are possibilities for free energy and anomalous physical devices. I'm not a negative skeptic. I'm looking around for this type of thing too. > Although a few of > you have helped (thankyou) the majority is > closing their eyes to my ideas without even seeing > my ideas! Perhaps YOU are the one closing your eyes at this point, Rod. The fact is, Many of us HAVE seen your ideas - many times before! But like I said, build it if you can; that will be your proof. The response you have gotten to your unbuilt plans may have taken you a bit by surprise and might even seem unfair at this point, but that's for lack of perspective on your part as to how often this same idea comes up, and how deep, broad, and very well founded the certainty is that it will not work. Sign off if you like, but I think you'd be in good company if you stayed on and worked the list for feedback as you construct and test your idea. Build it then, Ron. Build it and prove me and the others wrong. PLEEEASE! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 00:59:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA01381; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:58:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:58:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3709C28B.3F2F@flash.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 03:15:07 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@flash.net Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel References: <48fb272c.243b1245@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MYZDu2.0.UL._wR2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Rod et al! Saw your post to the 'freenrg' list...you give up way too easy and it makes you look very half-baked because you don't have the courage of your own convictions. You argue that the math works, yet you do admit it has yet to be built and proven. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are perfectly clear in your claims that it IS a theory, which is currently unproven. I can't tell if you are looking at money or strokes....that is do you want people to send you money to help build it, do you want a small group of people to help you build it, or do you just want everyone to pat you on the back and tell you what a genius you are? Not being offensive or insulting, just trying to understand what you want from this. You see, you are apparently VERY NEW to this game...we see this kind of claim about once every month or so, whether it be in the form of a magnetic motor, a vortex energy device, a heat pump, a gravity wheel or some anomalous electrical circuit. Do you know how many actually provide ANY PROOF? NONE. Do you know how many ask for non-disclosures to find out more? ALL. So it gets really old. That is another reason why the best release in my opinion is using the shareware proposal...it would be copyrighted so that it could not be reproduced or reprinted EXCEPT IN ITS ENTIRETY and FREELY...which would include your name as the inventor...so if others see what you see, others build what you have not and IT WORKS...you get all the credit as you were the inventor as recorded and copyrighted in that original document. Don't you think you would win all kinds of kudos for your insight? Not to mention job offers and maybe even awards that would include cash prizes... So, don't give up so easily....your first mistake was being way too enthusiastic by saying it would work, yet without haveing built it yet....the second mistake is to try to lock it up IN ANYWAY by non disclosure or trying to make money with it. Is it not most peculiar that so many so-called free energy or self-running devices are not available today, not in use today and in fact never were available commercially or used commercially? It is due to the inventors keeping it secret, trying to make money or to control it. Like I said, we have been at this a long time and are definitely open to new ideas, but not claims where the device hasn't been built and there is so much mystery about the 'secret'.... If you want to post the plans as shareware, at KeelyNet or on your own site or another site....feel free to use it...its not a matter of WHO posts it, just that the inventor gets full credit for his discovery...at least it would be out to many people, some of who would attempt to build it and report back to you since it would have your email address in the document....but that's entirely up to you if you might want to release it... At any rate....don't give up IF YOU REALLY THINK YOU HAVE SOMETHING...and good luck! -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 01:08:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA04351; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:07:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:07:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:05:15 -1000 Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904060424.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"ayrEq.0.u31.53S2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick Monteverde stupidly typed: >Build it then, Ron. Err, *Rod*. Sorry. But build it, and ditto what Jerry Decker said too. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 01:13:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA06146; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:12:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:12:40 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:12:03 EDT Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Grod123456@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"1iX0V.0.xV1.t7S2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks Jerry, No, I'm definitely not giving up on my idea... I'm just going to quit trying to convince people I MAY have it... When I complete it and when(if) it works, then I will come back on here and dare the masses to tell me I'm wrong... after all, seeing is believing correct? I thought you could look at it and talk it over with me but apparently I was mistaken... you seen too many of these before... Take care, Rod PS I will report back if I have good news... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 01:29:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA20522; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3709A875.CC56C485@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:23:49 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Philip Kramer References: <199904060349.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NMjuz.0.N05.jMS2t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com yeah... thats what I figured.... but is it just an urban legend or is there ANYTHING behind it I wonder? Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Don - > > > A heard that a person by the name of Philip Kramer who played in the > > band called Iron Butterfly is missing. The strange part is that this > > person developed a math formula that allows for communications to travel > > faster then the speed of light. I have been trying to research this > > rumor to find more facts. If anyone has any information, please let me > > know. > > One of the great urban legends. I hear the gentleman stepped out, and he > ain't headed back this way again! Seriously! > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 01:29:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA20540; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3709A880.C8B2E322@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:24:00 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Freaky German Wheel References: <199904060330.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8QK26.0.n05.nMS2t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com any one 'sprecken die Deutsch'? http://members.aol.com/wuerthx/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 01:29:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA20566; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3709A879.70B5C7FC@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:23:53 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: DEAN DRIVE or GIT ? References: <199904060330.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Erd7S2.0.C15.sMS2t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com THE GYROSCOPIC INERTIAL THRUSTER A simple, mechanical inertial thruster . . . Finally a device that works! This document collection details the discovery, testing, theory, and current status of this PUBLIC DOMAIN device, that can be duplicated by any skilled http://www.open.org/~davidc/UFODrive.htm and claimed PROOF of theory; http://www.open.org/~davidc/SlingDrv.htm Rick Monteverde wrote: > > John - > > >Oh come on rick, sure most over balanced wheels are just mistakes in > >comprehension, however that does not mean that a wheel can't tap energy by some > >other means, yes sure mathematically none of them will work but neither will > >motion rectifiers which many have been shown to work. > > No, they don't. None of them do. The only one superficially like these that > *might* is the Woodward device, which is really not at all a "Dean Drive" > type of machine, but something very different entirely - it's not strictly > mechanical but involves secondary energy flows for a *very* slight effect. > But even that might not really work, although some experiments have looked > initially positive. > > >The point is that the laws inertia are not as straight forward as you believe, > >that is the main secret to these mechanical machines. > > This is not correct. The laws of inertia are indeed straightforward, and > mechanical devices based on unbalanced wheels or reciprocating "Dean Drive" > type mechanisms all have one thing in common: none of them work. > > >Mathematics can only predict what will happen with all of the variables, There > >are important parts missing. > > Then either include those variables or point to a genuine working device. No > one has ever done either one of those things. > > >Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, as it is over balanced wheels I > >don't believe will work, however *inertially unbalanced wheels will work. > > > >*Well I think it should be a word! > > John, here's the problem: the baby hasn't even been born yet, and it's > infintessimally close to absolutely certain that it never will. Not to that > family at least. No mechanical devices with unbalanced wheels or > reciprocating elements actually work. Now gyros under certain circumstances, > I'm not quite as sure. There's a whole 'nother door that might be still open > just a tiny crack. At least it still seems that way to me. But these wheels > and Dean Drives have been a very cold dead end for a *very* long time now. > They've been tried over and over and over again. They have a long history. > They never work. Why won't people just move on to other areas where there > might be some potential yet unexplored? > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 01:30:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA20593; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3709A89B.477225C6@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:24:27 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, mrand@iols.net Subject: Re: Fw: SEA Over-Balanced Wheel References: <008f01be7ff2$96b65ee0$12684fc6@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fBnpm1.0.615.rMS2t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com could you e-mail me the 39 kb version? I can't read the low res one very well... thx! Don mrand@access wrote: > > Rick and freenrg, > Third attempt. The attached gif file is now 9kb vs 39kb. Was it viewable? > Regards, Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: mrand@access > To: freenrg-l <> > Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:47 PM > Subject: SEA Over-Balanced Wheel > > > > > > >Rick, > >What do you think of this Over-Balanced Wheel design using magnets, from > the > >latest SEA journal? No info on the designer. Could it self-spin? > >Regards, Michael > > > > > > > > > > [Image] -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 01:30:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA20510; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3709A86B.9A8B7461@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:23:39 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Monteverde , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel References: <199904060356.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i2o_h2.0.E05.iMS2t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I know... your right of course. My sentiments pretty much also. Its one of those situations you know...? Where ya see some dude with a decent goal but maybe he's setting himself up for a potentially nasty fall and you know you probably can't dissuade him and you hope against hope that maybe you're wrong so you don't have to watch him go 'splat'? I hate when they go splat. But then there are those rare occasions, where 'Enter the Twilight Zone' rears up and something totally bizarre happens that you just never even considered before and it gives that bit of hope.... Your comments about making it a hobby makes the most sense. I shudder when I think of all the people the world over that invest painful amoumts of sweat, savings, time and effort into working on a red herring and had they read one small article somewhere that described their scenario they could have saved all themselves the grief. Education is expensive but if you can minimize that expense... well thats definitely a good thing in my books. I can't count the number of red herrings I've worked on... I've gotten to the point now where I'm pretty darn cautious too. But then you never know, folks like Rod can come along and simply see things in the world differently than the rest and simply perceive that difference and apply it. I say go for it Rod, try and get something working and just don't spend and arm and a leg but see what you can do! Can anyone comment further on his inquiries regarding the math he mentions? I'm afraid I can't quite see how it would produce the results he's after but I'm no physics expert just a generalist and abstract visualizer! ;), am I missing something? This would be a good time to have Keith Carrigan or Norm Wootan here.... they could offer back some pretty sharp and concise replies to this end. Norm, Keith, you guys out there? Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Don - > > > another good analogy is the fly hitting the window > > over and over again.... but then even sometimes, in > > very rare cases that fly actually does find a crack > > in the glass and makes good his escape... perhaps > > the answer is to balance it out somehow... proceed > > with experimentation and investigating the > > unknown but be aware of what appears to be > > constraints. > > Like I wrote Rod via e-mail, I hope if after he looks at all the similar > designs and still wants to try it, he builds a relatively inexpensive rig > and treats it as a hobby and a learning experience. No harm in that, > certainly. Maybe good even. I just don't like to think that someone might > get their hopes up too far or spend too much money on something which I know > has a snoball's chance because they think there might really a big payday at > the end. But tinkering is good. I'm a tinker, or at least it's my hobby. I > say go for it if it makes you happy. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 02:06:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA32421; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:06:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:06:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990406050511.007c5cc0@mail.netrover.com> X-Sender: trebla@mail.netrover.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 05:05:11 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Marcus Cole Subject: Peletier device? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1tjLc.0.Uw7.IwS2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, this is my first post. I am intrigued by that Peletier device. I am a curious guy, and have lots of questions, and sadly few answer. Now for a few of them: 1) If we made a solar heater and a 'probe' that could be immersed in a large body of water, like a lac or the ocean, how much power could be produced using the peletier device? 2) For space exploration, if we have a nuclear reactor, which produce lots of heat, connected to a peletier device with the cold side being in outerspace, would electric power be produced in enough quantity to sustain such thing as space probe, stations, etc? I could go on with my questions, but i'll wait for another time, when my ideas are more sorted out. Thanks for your time Marcus Cole No matter how straight the Gate, How charged with punishment the Soul, I am the Captain of my Fate, The Master of my Soul From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 02:09:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA05104; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:09:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:09:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:07:43 -1000 Subject: Re: SEA Over-Balanced Wheel From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904060526.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"fEtqk1.0.bF1.5zS2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Michael - Yes, the image looks fine. Makes me want to build it too, because of course it looks like it might work. But in principle, it's already been built. It's called an RMOD - rotary magnetic overunity device. And I wouldn't even bet against this one working at times - sort of. The magnetocaloric effect is real, and at least temporarily seems to violate 2nd thermo. But over time or in a good calorimeter it probably wouldn't net out any energy. It's just one of those little flukes I was referring to that won't scale up to anything, but in carefully balanced devices can drive people crazy - like Greg Watson for instance - along with myself and quite a few other and former members of this list. How about that Finsrud magnetic device? That thing runs and runs. Heck, even a stupid capacitor just left sitting around by itself charges itself up. What's with that? These things look like they defy the 2nd law thermodynamics, apparently turning low grade environmental heat into work or electricity. Some of that stuff might be scalable to some extent, and work at the very least as novel converters of waste-heat to electricity or rotary power. I'm still very suspicious of capacitors. They charge themselves up even in a temperature controlled oven or in a very well shielded chamber. If I didn't know better (and I *don't*!) I'd say they were tapping variations in the dielectric constant of the space within them. Don't know why that would change, but it seems like it does. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 06:44:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA20365; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:44:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:44:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:44:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel To: Grod123456@aol.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <48fb272c.243b1245@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gEvhV2.0.6-4.o-W2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > I believe this will be my last post to this group... > I initially decided to post to this group to possibly get some help and/or > advice... > Although a few of you have helped (thankyou) the majority is closing their > eyes to my ideas without even seeing my ideas! > I know I'm faced with the impossible, but isn't that why we all are even in > this group? We all must have some desire or question whether all laws that > were decided hundreds of years ago may need a little revision? > I don't know if my wheel will work yet... However, even the math says IT WILL > !!! > > Also, what if , by my submission of my ideas, give one of you one more 'tip' > that may make your idea work instead of mine? Now isn't that worth at least > discovering how far I've achieved? (or anyone else's ideas for that matter) > > I'm tired of getting the emails that say "Rod here's my opinion, it won't > work" > Ok ... How do you know? You haven't even saw it yet??? I don't care if there > have been 'thousands' of failures ! It only takes one... > Thats all I have to say... If anyone is still interested in talking to me, > I'll email privately... Thanks for your time ... No offense to you Bill, you > have a good idea with this website... > Rod > Just TRY IT ... put it together and see if it does or does not work. Then you will know for sure. If it does, then your math is vindicated. If it doesn't, then you know you made some error in your calculations. But the important thing is TRY IT! Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 06:52:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22424; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:52:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:52:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:51:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3709A86B.9A8B7461@telusplanet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9IcZf1.0.HU5.76X2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Don J. S. Adams wrote: > I say go for it Rod, try and get something working and just don't spend > and arm and a leg > but see what you can do! Can anyone comment further on his inquiries > regarding the math he mentions? I'm afraid I can't quite see how it > would produce the results he's after > but I'm no physics expert just a generalist and abstract visualizer! I'd like to see the math. Perhaps there is something to it. Perhaps something has been overlooked. (Hell, I go over my 1040 forms 10 times just to make sure I didn't make a mistake or leave something out!) Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 07:49:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06414; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:47:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:47:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199904061447.JAA23638@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:45:48 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JZx54.0.sZ1.UwX2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rod, Don't turn your back on those of us who support you. An inventor must be very tough, as there are many, many doubters, but only a few inventors who were tough enough to give us all the wonderful things we enjoy today. I know, I am a lifelong inventor, with patents. The joy of one success far outweighs a few crummy words that sting a little. So please tell us your thoughts and ask your questions. We would like to someday say we knew Rod personally, the inventor of the first perpetual motion machine. Joe Portman ========= ---------- > From: Zack Widup > To: Grod123456@aol.com > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 8:44 AM > > On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > > > I believe this will be my last post to this group... > > I initially decided to post to this group to possibly get some help and/or > > advice... > > Although a few of you have helped (thankyou) the majority is closing their > > eyes to my ideas without even seeing my ideas! > > I know I'm faced with the impossible, but isn't that why we all are even in > > this group? We all must have some desire or question whether all laws that > > were decided hundreds of years ago may need a little revision? > > I don't know if my wheel will work yet... However, even the math says IT WILL > > !!! > > > > Also, what if , by my submission of my ideas, give one of you one more 'tip' > > that may make your idea work instead of mine? Now isn't that worth at least > > discovering how far I've achieved? (or anyone else's ideas for that matter) > > > > I'm tired of getting the emails that say "Rod here's my opinion, it won't > > work" > > Ok ... How do you know? You haven't even saw it yet??? I don't care if there > > have been 'thousands' of failures ! It only takes one... > > Thats all I have to say... If anyone is still interested in talking to me, > > I'll email privately... Thanks for your time ... No offense to you Bill, you > > have a good idea with this website... > > Rod > > > > Just TRY IT ... put it together and see if it does or does not work. > Then you will know for sure. > > If it does, then your math is vindicated. If it doesn't, then you know > you made some error in your calculations. > > But the important thing is TRY IT! > > Zack > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 08:03:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA13917; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:01:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:01:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199904061501.KAA19774@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Peletier device? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:59:52 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FwFLF2.0.JP3.d7Y2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Marcus, The Peltier device I believe puts out about 1.5 watts per junction per deg F. With one junction only at 1 deg F, the voltage is very low. Where the voltage may be constant, the current depends upon the surface area of the junction. Putting the cells in series increases the voltage to a useful level. The lead telluride pellets that make up the heart of the cell are still expensive, even after 40 years. The pellets are doped to make them PNP. I designed with them 40 years ago so my memory is fuzzy. If I were to experiment today, I would get some type J thermocouple wire and learn a little with that. Then if I had a bell jar vac system, I would vapor deposit junctions on mylar or such, in order to get a lot of junction area with a minimum of material. Hope this helps a little......Joe Portman ================================ ---------- > From: Marcus Cole > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Peletier device? > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 4:05 AM > > Hi, this is my first post. I am intrigued by that Peletier device. I am a > curious guy, and have lots of questions, and sadly few answer. Now for a > few of them: > > 1) If we made a solar heater and a 'probe' that could be immersed in a > large body of water, like a lac or the ocean, how much power could be > produced using the peletier device? > > 2) For space exploration, if we have a nuclear reactor, which produce lots > of heat, connected to a peletier device with the cold side being in > outerspace, would electric power be produced in enough quantity to sustain > such thing as space probe, stations, etc? > > I could go on with my questions, but i'll wait for another time, when my > ideas are more > sorted out. Thanks for your time > > Marcus Cole > > > No matter how straight the Gate, > How charged with punishment the Soul, > I am the Captain of my Fate, > The Master of my Soul > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 08:17:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19004; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:16:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:16:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199904061516.KAA21765@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:14:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t6gU73.0.oe4.HLY2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If you have a good idea that is useful in today's times, then there are at least 10 other people in the US working on it, and who knows how many in world. A patent search is always prudent before spending a lot of time and money. The voice of experience...duh...Joe Portman ==================================== ---------- > From: Rick Monteverde > To: freenrg list > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:39 AM > > Don - > > > another good analogy is the fly hitting the window > > over and over again.... but then even sometimes, in > > very rare cases that fly actually does find a crack > > in the glass and makes good his escape... perhaps > > the answer is to balance it out somehow... proceed > > with experimentation and investigating the > > unknown but be aware of what appears to be > > constraints. > > Like I wrote Rod via e-mail, I hope if after he looks at all the similar > designs and still wants to try it, he builds a relatively inexpensive rig > and treats it as a hobby and a learning experience. No harm in that, > certainly. Maybe good even. I just don't like to think that someone might > get their hopes up too far or spend too much money on something which I know > has a snoball's chance because they think there might really a big payday at > the end. But tinkering is good. I'm a tinker, or at least it's my hobby. I > say go for it if it makes you happy. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 10:33:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32354; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:32:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:32:26 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: Fw: SEA Over-Balanced Wheel Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:30:10 +0200 Message-ID: <01be8053$1f5d4640$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nn4qr2.0.Rv7.gKa2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi >could you e-mail me the 39 kb version? I can't read the low res >one very well... This goes for me as well Thanks Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 10:34:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32658; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:33:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:33:14 -0700 Message-ID: <19990406173412.1793.rocketmail@web104.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:34:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wayne Decker Subject: Re: Peletier device? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Xt8sM.0.B-7.PLa2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Joe et al! The Dotto ring used such a Peltier junction consisting of a thick plate of constantan and a thick ring of copper, junctured with one side heated and the other cooled...the greater the temperature differential, the greater the amount of current.....it was claimed to produce 30,000 amps with almost no voltage... It strikes me that the recent claims of a device from http://www.jademountain.com for a thermoelectric device which output something like 5,000 Watts AC was using this to feed a serious power inverter.....you could put it in a fire or better, feed it with a propane torch....haven't checked in lately, but they had supplier problems last time I heard..... I know they are incredibly 'inefficient' as to heat power in against electrical power out, but its still a neat idea. That you could even focus fresnels on these things to concentrate sunlight, and use water or maybe even a refrigerant as the cold side grounded in the earth.... --- Joe Portman wrote: > Marcus, > The Peltier device I believe puts out about 1.5 > watts per junction per > deg F. With one junction only at 1 deg F, the > voltage is very low. Where > the voltage may be constant, the current depends > upon the surface area of > the junction. Putting the cells in series increases > the voltage to a useful > level. The lead telluride pellets that make up the > heart of the cell are > still expensive, even after 40 years. The pellets > are doped to make them > PNP. I designed with them 40 years ago so my memory > is fuzzy. If I were to > experiment today, I would get some type J > thermocouple wire and learn a > little with that. Then if I had a bell jar vac > system, I would vapor > deposit junctions on mylar or such, in order to get > a lot of junction area > with a minimum of material. > Hope this helps a little......Joe Portman > ================================ > > ---------- > > From: Marcus Cole > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Peletier device? > > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 4:05 AM > > > > Hi, this is my first post. I am intrigued by that > Peletier device. I am > a > > curious guy, and have lots of questions, and sadly > few answer. Now for a > > few of them: > > > > 1) If we made a solar heater and a 'probe' that > could be immersed in a > > large body of water, like a lac or the ocean, how > much power could be > > produced using the peletier device? > > > > 2) For space exploration, if we have a nuclear > reactor, which produce > lots > > of heat, connected to a peletier device with the > cold side being in > > outerspace, would electric power be produced in > enough quantity to > sustain > > such thing as space probe, stations, etc? > > > > I could go on with my questions, but i'll wait for > another time, when my > > ideas are more > > sorted out. Thanks for your time > > > > Marcus Cole > > > > > > No matter how straight the Gate, > > How charged with punishment the Soul, > > I am the Captain of my Fate, > > The Master of my Soul > > > > === ================================= Please respond to jdecker@keelynet.com as I am writing from my work email of jwdatwork@yahoo.com.........thanks! ================================= _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 10:54:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07056; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:52:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:52:35 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990406171400.015821dc@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:14:00 -0400 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: From Russia with Love Resent-Message-ID: <"QKH4B1.0.4k1.Yda2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Good paper. I knew about dowsing but could not appreciate its' significance to a better understanding of things. Thanks. At 07:33 AM 4/4/99 -0800, you wrote: >Archaeology - New Energy > >A famous skeptic, James Randi, tested eleven well-known dowsers in >Australia in 1980. Under the ground there were ten water pipes and at >any time during the test, water could randomly flow through one of them. >Although the dowsers had confidently predicted a high rate of success, >the actual results were surprisingly low and it may well have been a coincidence. I surmise that, James Randi brings such a huge amount of negative black energy blobs (falun gong web search) attached to his EV, his presence (attitude & behavior) adversely affects the lifeforce of the test subjects thereby affecting dowsing results negatively. Falun Gong teaches that good deeds will add white positive energy to one's EV. Accordingly bad deeds will earn one a corresponding black blob. Is it possible to detect differences in energy types with a dowsing rod? >The failure of the Australian test very likely stems from incorrect >evaluation of reactions. Were they not experienced dowsers? >During our research we have determined that >dowsing-rod reactions show a certain pattern, which must be respected in >order to mark exactly the correct place searched. In an example similar >to the Australian experiment I will try to acquaint you with new >findings when working with a dowsing-rod. >The test area may be much simpler, it is enough to place one plastic >tube under the ground and connect it to a water faucet. Dowsers will >approach the buried tube in a perpendicular direction from a distance of >at least fifty meters from the test area and they will stop in the same >distance behind the test area. We will use metal dowsing-rods to >simulate better the primeval ages, i.e. copper dowsing-rods. Water is >flowing in the test tube and the dowser slowly walks along the route and >marks all dowsing-rod reactions by hammering sticks in the ground. At >first sight of approximately 15 sticks it is evident that distance >between them are roughly the same with an exception - in the middle of >the row there is a gap approximately four times wider. Any suggestions on proper gauge of copper wire? Idea - use Phi for the ratio of the dowsing rod leg lengths (assuming L shaped rod)? Length of rod leg - side that points foward - based on rEP? Does the dowsing rod design have any effect on sensitivity? >The dowsing-rod has shown one of its secrets, we have witnessed >the dowsing-rod pattern code. The tube looked for is located in the >middle of the great gap in a place where the dowsing-rod showed no >reaction. We will now repeat the experiment in the same way, we will >just increase the water flow rate in the tube and use sticks of >different color for the second row. The result is the same, the tube >looked for is in the middle of the great gap, which evidently increased >in width, as did the other gaps. If we repeat the experiment with >different water flow rates, will determine direct proportion between the >volume of flowing water and the gaps. The same result can also be >reached with a small natural stream. For bigger water flows the results >are the same, however, too wide gaps between them make it difficult to >find orientation among them. This maybe how James Randi messed with the above mentioned test? Why didn't Mr. Randi use just one buried waterpipe. It appears that Mr. Randi knows how to create conditions to make dowsing difficult. >In the same way as with the menhir we can identify energy of every >matter - i.e. even of man. This probably concerns another >secret of the dowsing-rod - why it reacts with certain people >only. If we measure the energy of more people, we will find out that >not all of them are equal in terms of energy. The energy space radius >for humans ranges from 20 to 60 cm. We have experienced that the >structure of energy spaces is very different, therefore, it may be >assumed that the dowsing-rod only reacts with people who have a >suitable combination of the energy space with its structure. > >If you gain enough experience with the dowsing-rod, then for small >energy objects it will be sufficient to evaluate roughly only the radius >of the energy space, we will gain the necessary information much faster. > >However, it must be born in mind that the energy space is >three-dimensional. Merging two or more energy spaces into one common >energy space equals the sum of their volumes. Therefore, we will assume >that for two people with the same energy space radius of 30 cm, their >common energy space radius will be much smaller than 60 cm. From now on >we will mark energy space radius as rEP, energy space as EP and energy >layers as EV. > >Two people standing next to each other in a distance greater than the >sum of their rEP represent two separate energy objects and have >their separate EP and EV. If they come closer to a distance smaller than >the sum of their rEP, they will merge into one energy object with >common EP and EV. From this moment, energy is slowly transferred >between both persons, the person will lower energy absorbs energy >from a person with higher energy. We must mention B=C3¸etislav >Kavka here, who described the said energy transfer eighty years ago and >commented on it in terms of psychology. Besides other, he stated that a >person absorbing energy subconsciously feels sympathy, the person giving >energy feels antipathy. I personally do not have any misgivings about passing knowledge to others. The exception is when the receiver feels it necessary to use indirect ways other than just asking. Information is a form of energy. Teaching others is a form of energy transfer. However, one remembers what was just learned by the student. The law of conservation of energy assumes an energy void nonetheless and gives the OK to the space time fabric to put energy (new information) back to fill the void. This is how teachers learn. This is why teachers (should) teach. The relevence of what the teacher learns is proportional to the useful of what was taught relative to the student. Everyone can (and should) be a teacher. Try it and see for yourselves. Beware of the mistake of teaching without teaching. Realative positive usefulness of the info to the student is a key factor. >Every separate grouping of matter in the >nature forms a separate energy object. The transfer of energy >between a man and a menhir may be proved easily. First, we have to find >a menhir. If it no longer has any energy, this is because the water >flow, to which it had been oriented, changed its watercourse several >times over thousands of years and its EV are now located in different >positions. We will not drag the menhir to a different place as did the >primeval people, in our century we have means for that. We can turn a >stone into a menhir by placing a case next to it with ten capacitors of >total capacity of 1.5 F connected to 12 V. After one hour the stone has >become a functional menhir and we can start to experiment. First, we >have to measure its energy - using the already known procedure we will >mark its energy components. A man will sit next to the menhir for an >hour when we have measured his rEP with a dowsing-rod. When comes out of >the menhir's EP, we will measure him again and the difference between >both rEP represents energy gain that will slowly disappear as will the >energy of the menhir. > >After several years of experiments with energy transfers you will learn >to "see energy". You will not expect that by staying in a >twelve-meter rEP of a big tree your rEP would increase to twelve meters >but only to 90 cm. You will not be surprised that ten meters from the >given tree your dowsing-rod will not function since you are part of the >tree's energy, similarly as on a grown meadow or in another EP. You will >have confirmed that the most aggressive impacts on your health are >caused by ever-present energy components of very high voltage electric >lines, which may raise our rEP up to 120 cm if we stay within their >energy components. You will be aware that rEP of 120 cm may further be >increased e.g. by alcohol etc. You will not be surprised that in terms >of energy, alcohol functions in the same way if you have it in your >pocket as if you drink it. After measuring your apartment you will find >out that you are most endangered by the central heating system, electric >lines and electric appliances. > >If your dowsing rod does not function in your apartment, the whole >apartment is located in a common EP. The scope of its negative impact >may be identified using an "energy probe", i.e. by leaving a >plastic bottle filled with pure water for two days in the apartment. The >water will absorb energy from your apartment. In an energy-free place >where the dowsing-rod functions properly you can perform your >evaluation: first, measure the rEP of a man, than give him the bottle >from your apartment to hold and measure his rEP again, the difference >between both rEP represents the EP value of your apartment. In the same >way you can use the "energy probe" to perform rough evaluation >of other energy objects within their energy components. If someone still >considers reactions of the dowsing-rod unprovable, he can prove each of >its reactions using selected capacitors, where the voltage on their >electrodes increases within energy components and does not increase >outside them. > >The dowsing-rod keeps back its last secret - what is the cause of >reactions. The cause of reactions is the contact of two energy >components. One energy component is the dowser's EP, the other >component is the EP or EV of another energy object. Deviation of the >dowsing-rod is caused by opposing force. The "butterfly" >type of dowsing-rod only reacts if it sticks out from the dowser's EP so >that it first contacts another energy object. > >Properties of both energy components are different from the properties >of known energy forms. They are described in literature of the past >centuries, we examine them and supplement them with our findings. We are >going to publish them after completing research in this field. >We call separate energy objects charges; since an opposing force acts >between them similarly as between two positively charged objects. Our >empirical research has been called Charge Interaction. > >Charge Interaction > > >It has become a fact that the function principle which hides space >energy unknown to us, which had to be re-discovered at the end of our >millenium. Space energy was already known to primeval people and they >utilized to their benefit. In order to find our way in the primeval >ages, first we have to invalidate misleading hypotheses and acknowledge >that people of the megalithic culture superseded us in one aspect of >technical development. It sounds unbelievable but I will try to prove it. > >Using the drowsing-rod, our ancestors discovered the energy of water >flows and their energy components. In the same way they discovered that >a stone placed in an energy layer accumulates energy, which may be >similarly transferred to a human body. On all continents, almost at the >same time, they used to place stones in energy layers of water flows, we >then called the stones menhirs. Very likely, they discovered another >method of energy utilization when individual stones were no more >sufficient for them, and they started to build greater sources - rows of >menhirs, big round structures and pyramids. Another finding of theirs >was the fact that clay has the same accumulation property. More than one >hundred thousand clay bulwarks were built in North America, more >followed in England and China. In order for a stone or clay bulwark to >function as an energy accumulator, it has to insulated from the solid >rock bed with a layer of suitable soil or other natural materials. From >the above it follows that all structures built up to the present time, >which are not built on a rock bed and have a layer of soil or other >"insulation material" between the rock bed and the pit base >can function as menhirs, they can accumulate energy in their matter. > >Menhirs were continuously enhanced. An area with clay bulwarks, >underground channels and lakes in San Lorenzo was a big menhir with a >controllable charge. The builders already knew that water could >accumulate energy. By regulating the water flow rate in the underground >channels, they were able to charge water in the lakes as well as the >clay bulwarks. Underground water channels in the Nasca Plateau, which in >several places lead under the Rio de Nasca river, suggest that the >builders wanted to control the water flow rate in the channels. >Otherwise, they would welcome water sources being interconnected. From >the above it follows that the Nasca Plateau may have been an energy >structure. Line in the plateau may be highlighted energy layers of water >flows, sea streams etc. > >Menhirs were constructed on all continents almost at the same time, >therefore, it must have been coordinated action that can be by no means >called a coincidence. If we consider that primeval people used energy >that we are going to learn about, we may even assume that we will >probably learn even more. Water flow energy layers form a dense >three-dimensional grid around our planet, which is conductive for space >energy, therefore, we cannot exclude its use for communication. In case >of D=C3¤ ninken's astronauts with aerials on their helmets, they >did not necessarily have to be astronauts, they may have been our ancestors. > >In Western Europe, approximately sixty fortresses have been built using >the melted stone technology. Arthur Clark has proved through experiments >that no combustible material available at that time could be used to >reach the necessary temperatures. Therefore, we may assume that the >necessary temperature may have been acquired through transformation or >accumulation of space energy. > >Speaking of space energy, we have to divide the life on the Earth into >two periods. From the ancient ages to the nineteenth century and from >then on. In the nineteenth century, when the electrification began, >electric grids disrupted the natural energy balance formed by water >flows and sea streams. When we look at a map showing high voltage and >very high voltage lines, we will easily find out that there are many >more energy grids than water flows. Energy grids generate similar energy >in layers copying their location and direction in the same way as water >flows do, they also interact with each other. In some places there is a >permanent energy overload. > >Energy layers of energy grids, contrary to water flow energy layers, are >not mobile, they may be called static, their gaps are determined by the >voltage irrespective of the amount of current flowing through, they are >more aggressive. The science still does not pay attention to the >negative impacts of energy overloads on organisms but statistics does. >The Health Information and Statistics Institute (HISI) has published a >map of the country which shows highlighted places with different >occurrence of oncologic diseases. Great woodland areas are marked as >places with the highest occurrence of cancer. Places with no woods show >a lower number of cancer occurrences. The question why it is so may be >answered through research of charge interaction. > >According to HISI statistics, cities as a whole are a little better off >but they show some critical places. This is confirmed by statistics of >MUDr. Old=C3¸ich Juri=C5=B7ka, who for half a century marked >occurrences of cancer in the map of Olomouc. In most cases, the patients >came from the same streets or individual houses. In terms of energy this >is the same issue as in the =C5 umava Mountains. The energy >overload is caused by cables, sewage ducts, water distribution pipes, >gas pipes and steam pipes. Engineering grids form one common charge with >one common energy space, which reliably intercepts energy of different >charge energy layers and creates a permanent energy overload. Place >where energy layers cross represent the most aggressive and critical places. > >A cell membrane has a capacity (Cm =3D 1 µ F * >cm-2), therefore, it also has a charge. A charged capacitor >also has a capacity and a charge. Man has an average value of energy >space radius of 35 cm, a similar value is shown by 3 capacitors >with a total capacity of 2 F charged at 6 V. The same energy space >radius will be shown by any number of capacitors with the same total >capacity provided that their energy space overlap. It is very difficult >to measure the capacity of cell membrane, it cannot be performed in >every doctor's office. I am not going to recommend doctors some primeval >practices but energy values of man may be quickly determined by >measuring the energy space radius. It seems to me a question of the near >future that doctors will be equipped with a device that will supersede >the drowsing-rod in many aspects. Energy value is one of the crucial >factors for man's health. This is supported by measuring sound and ill >people. For many centuries, healers have used this fact by passing some >of their energy to their patients. However, in some cases in our century >this works no more, people sometimes suffer not from a lack of energy >but from its abundance. It is more than likely that in the near future >specialized research entities will prove that there is a connection >between deformation of cell membranes and long-term stay in an >overloaded locality. Historical literature states examples how to >relieve of abundant energy but this is just for the short run. We live >in a permanent overload which must be solved in the whole territory. I would like to try this dowsing technique on land I will be looking at soon. Any suggestions on what to look for in terms of good energy patterns? There's a river running through it with funny bends and lots of hardwood trees about. Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 11:38:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23883; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:37:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:37:57 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990406184327.015c8674@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:43:27 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: An Easter Gift Resent-Message-ID: <"yoIGM.0.4r5.5Ib2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 03:27 PM 4/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >Termites dispose of, each year, all dead trees and plants of the world. >This has gone on for all time and amounts to thousands of times more gases >than man's burning. What is hurting the most is the destruction by man of >the forests and biosphere which convert all this back to good air. Carbon >dioxide is most responsible for retaining heat. Were it not for this, the >earth would cool down much faster. A good Free Energy device will cool the environment to generate power. Man made CO2 is increasing global levels of the gas. This is increasing the vapor content of the atmosphere. Increased vapor content of the atmosphere affects the climate adversely. It maybe quicker to use appropriate Free Energy devices to fix the problem than planting (and waiting for them to grow) enough trees to do same. Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 11:56:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA32141; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:55:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:55:55 -0700 From: Charlie Hodgson Message-Id: <199904061754.NAA02823@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> Subject: Re: From Russia with Love To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:54:07 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990406171400.015821dc@popd.ix.netcom.com> from "Dennis C. Lee" at Apr 6, 99 01:14:00 pm Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"gR0mv.0.2s7.xYb2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dennis C. Lee said > > At 07:33 AM 4/4/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Archaeology - New Energy > > > >A famous skeptic, James Randi, tested eleven well-known dowsers in > >Australia in 1980. Under the ground there were ten water pipes and at > >any time during the test, water could randomly flow through one of them. > >Although the dowsers had confidently predicted a high rate of success, > >the actual results were surprisingly low and it may well have been a > coincidence. > > I surmise that, James Randi brings such a huge amount of negative black > energy blobs (falun gong web search) attached to his EV, his presence > (attitude & behavior) adversely affects the lifeforce of the test subjects > thereby affecting dowsing results negatively. Falun Gong teaches that good > deeds will add white positive energy to one's EV. Accordingly bad deeds will > earn one a corresponding black blob. Is it possible to detect differences in > energy types with a dowsing rod? This too has been reported by Arbams and de la Warr in regards to Radionics (another form of dowsing). The 'negative energy' doen't neccessarily have to do with beliefs either; the author of 'Report on Radionics', a 'believer', could not be in the same room when certain tests were performed, he affected the outcome. On a similar topic, are you familiar with the work of Robert Jahn at the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research? http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/ They have found, with statistical significance, that certain individuals can affect the outcome of supposedly random events. It's no news to me: I can roll dice or pick needed cards blindly, until such time that I realize I'm doing it. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 12:14:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05835; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:13:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:13:49 -0700 Message-ID: <370A7823.9AF55DCB@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:09:55 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Self-charging caps References: <199904060526.SM00259@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zZbqE2.0.4R1.jpb2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick Monteverde wrote: > I'm still very suspicious of capacitors. They charge themselves up > even in a temperature controlled oven or in a very well shielded chamber. If > I didn't know better (and I *don't*!) I'd say they were tapping variations > in the dielectric constant of the space within them. Don't know why that > would change, but it seems like it does. I'm going to be getting some LN2 shortly, would you like me to immerse a large value cap in it to test for charging effects? The dewar is not steel, but aluminum, so it wouldn't shield EM fields, but still, it might be interesting...it wouldn't be wasting LN2, as I only need a small amount. What is left over would be discarded uselessly. If I go aead with it, what would you like me to measure? Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 12:52:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17231; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:49:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:49:32 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990406195253.015bd664@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 15:52:53 -0400 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism) to unconventional wisdom Resent-Message-ID: <"WVcrN2.0.kC4.zKc2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com My God, where does one begin with something like this? At 08:38 PM 4/4/99 -0400, you wrote: >Three of the major observations of this report establishes the >following: > > (1) Since doubt is considered a legitimate function within > intellectual processes, the role of those who doubt is given > more legitimacy than those who do not doubt. Were this not so > then the meaning of doubt would become vague. I do not consider doubt a legitimate intellectual process when confronting something new. I think 'what is it' until everything possible is heard. Then you check all the data for accuracy and the answer is obvious. Doubt without reason relative to the issue in question in and of itself, is not logical. > (2) When doubt is superimposed on direct human > experiencing, then the doubt assumes a priority because of its > perceived legitimacy. The superimposition then results in a > subtle shift of focus away from examining the direct human > experiencing and reinstalls the focus within the contexts of the > various intellectualisms that have become involved. > > (3) The history of intellectualisms demonstrates (a) that they > have relatively short terms of social fashionability, and (b) that > they tend to be elitist in nature because the larger populations > either do not, or cannot, share in them. > >Combining these three observations results in a fourth: that doubt >is relative to social enclaves and is thus only transitory against >larger issues that remain permanent within the direct experiential >thresholds of our species. > >Reducing these four observations to a possibly crude level, >skeptics and debunkers come and go --- but the experiencing >thresholds of the species remain the same. The experiencing >thresholds are therefore perpetual. Skepticism that advocates >doubt regarding something perpetual is relevant only to the >transitory intellectual boundaries within which it has arisen. > >As an apt illustration of the above, Albert Einstein introduced his >special theory of relativity in 1905 while he was still a student >and working in the patent office in Switzerland. The skeptical >responses regarding the theory, and him as a scientist and man, >were not only noisy but exceedingly --voluminous.-- > >By 1925, historians appraised that the Einstein "debate" had >accumulated the largest printed paper volume ever. > >When the special theory was proven correct between 1927 and >1929, it was shown that relativity was perpetual --- naturally >existing and true. The skeptical and debunking responses were >shown as transitory, however ardent and voluminous they had >been. None of the names of Einstein's skeptics are remembered. >And this is the ignominious fate of most skeptics --- because the >times and tides of discovery march on and forget they existed. There maybe great social costs caused by such a system of automated baseless naysaying. A delay will result in the use of the idea which could cause otherwise preventable difficulty to the innocent bystanders who have to live on this planet. >The verb "debunk" means "to expose the sham of falseness of >something." Debunking is therefore a valuable function and >always has been --- in that certain specimens of our species like to >engineer sham and falseness in order to benefit from them. > >Implicit in the term, however, is the distinction between (1) >exposing --after the fact of examination, and (2) accusing --before >the fact. In this double sense, the term can take on Machiavellian >efficiency. > >"Machiavellianism" refers to Machiavelli's political theory that >politics is amoral and that any means however unscrupulous can >justifiably be used in achieving political power or purposes. > >The introduction of Machiavellianism into skepticism and >debunking runs counter to their original ethical function and sets >up lachrymose contexts so labyrinthine that very few can >negotiate them. Indeed, Machiavellianism can only be effective >provided the labyrinthine contexts cannot be unravelled. > >As but one example of Machiavellian debunking, though, I refer >the truly interested to the paper entitled "Science Versus >Showmanship: A History of the Randi Hoax" by Michael A. >Thalbourne just published in The Journal of the American >Society for Psychical Research (Oct. 1995, Vol.89, No. 4). > >--Resistance-- to such research --before-- the facts of the >superpowers can be ascertained is therefore puzzling. > >The only possible explanation must involve not discoverable facts >which could speak for themselves but --motives and agendas.-- > >Most of us recognize that this is the usual case regarding most >human confusions --- assuming that mere stupidity or lack of >knowledge are not involved as the first instance. But the >introduction of motives and agendas further complicates this >particular situation already lamentably labyrinthine in its overall >character. > >The etymological history of the term "skepticism" shows that it >has undergone several definition formats and social applications >since it was first coined in ancient Greece --- down until today >when it is almost exclusively taken as referring to someone >opposed to the "paranormal" and anything resembling them. > >During the Renaissance period, when the schism between science >and religion started up, skepticism was largely taken as referring >to "doubt concerning basic religious principles" such as >immortality, providence, revelation, the existence of the soul, etc. >This is to say that --skepticism-- was then used almost as a >synonym for anti-religion on behalf of sequestering the evolving >sciences from it. > >The ethical, and even logical goal of the true skeptic is to resolve >doubt by identifying facts, not to reinforce doubt in the absence of >discovered facts --- and certainly not to underwrite Machiavellian >debunking tactics to prevent the needed research. > >True skepticism does not --begin-- by being anti- anything. The >processes of open consideration and examination (i.e., research) >will ultimately establish whether something exists or not. > >There is hardly no other way via which doubt, belief, or >confusions between them can be resolved on behalf of acquiring >increases in knowledge. And this is especially true as regards the >true extent of human sentiency --- for sentient beings have an >inalienable bio-mind right to know of the true extent of their >sentiency. > >If such a skeptic is utilizing the conventional definitions of the >modern mainstream sciences and philosophies --which have >neither considered nor researched the unconventional, then such a >skeptic is utilizing nothing at all except hearsay or prejudice >based on it. Clearly those who --have-- attempted to research the >unconventional know more about them than those who never have >made the attempt --- just as conventional modern scientists and >philosophers have not. > >Here is the basis for a pogrom. A "pogrom" is defined as "an >organized massacre of helpless people." Such a pogrom regarding >"sensitives" took place during the Inquisitions of the Middle >Ages. Some historians estimate the high body count at 9 million >over a 300-year period. Ridicule and defamation during modern >times of sensitives and researchers of the unconventional is a kind of >pogrom, especially when supported in the mainstream media. > >It is interesting indeed why in our scientific times there should be >such a pogrom that victimizes our species unconventional views >with its marvelous spectrum of sentiency. It may be that >someone somewhere doesn't want that marvelous spectrum to be >identified and DEVELOPED. Could a bunch of idiots running amock produce the same results. >*From a paper produced by Ingo Swann for the Intelligence >Community (aka the CIA) on Social Resistance to Psi. Let me guess, this is required reading at CIA U. What message will the average cadet get from this? Would it be something like: 1. Doubt is intelligent 2. Doubters get respect and control of situations. 3. Let's see... debunk... skepticism... Machiavelli... pogrom... 4. Someone somewhere who apparently transcends time and space wants this POGROM thing... Conclusion of average CIA wannabe - Gee this must be the recommended and approved Modus Operandi when encountering similar situations in the field... Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 13:00:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20826; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:59:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:59:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199904061959.OAA29576@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Self-charging caps Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:57:29 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0BuBx1.0.J55.eUc2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Since you are going more than 200 F below zero, and the electrolyte in the capacitor is a compound that will freeze in stages, I would try to get a E type thermo-couple into the cap to watch it, and I would measure both volts and current as they vary with the cap freeze stages. On a chartgraph, this should prove very interesting. I have done R&D in jet fuel flow points and freeze points. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Kyle R. Mcallister > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Self-charging caps > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 4:09 PM > > Rick Monteverde wrote: > > > I'm still very suspicious of capacitors. They charge themselves up > > even in a temperature controlled oven or in a very well shielded chamber. If > > I didn't know better (and I *don't*!) I'd say they were tapping variations > > in the dielectric constant of the space within them. Don't know why that > > would change, but it seems like it does. > > I'm going to be getting some LN2 shortly, would you like me to immerse a > large value cap in it to test for charging effects? The dewar is not > steel, but aluminum, so it wouldn't shield EM fields, but still, it > might be interesting...it wouldn't be wasting LN2, as I only need a > small amount. What is left over would be discarded uselessly. If I go > aead with it, what would you like me to measure? > > Kyle R. Mcallister > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 13:02:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA21511; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:01:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:01:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199904062001.PAA28798@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: From Russia with Love Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:59:01 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NVeoL2.0.xF5.5Wc2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Somebody is definitely a party-pooper.... =============================== ---------- > From: Charlie Hodgson > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: From Russia with Love > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 12:54 PM > > Dennis C. Lee said > > > > At 07:33 AM 4/4/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >Archaeology - New Energy > > > > > >A famous skeptic, James Randi, tested eleven well-known dowsers in > > >Australia in 1980. Under the ground there were ten water pipes and at > > >any time during the test, water could randomly flow through one of them. > > >Although the dowsers had confidently predicted a high rate of success, > > >the actual results were surprisingly low and it may well have been a > > coincidence. > > > > I surmise that, James Randi brings such a huge amount of negative black > > energy blobs (falun gong web search) attached to his EV, his presence > > (attitude & behavior) adversely affects the lifeforce of the test subjects > > thereby affecting dowsing results negatively. Falun Gong teaches that good > > deeds will add white positive energy to one's EV. Accordingly bad deeds will > > earn one a corresponding black blob. Is it possible to detect differences in > > energy types with a dowsing rod? > > > This too has been reported by Arbams and de la Warr in regards > to Radionics (another form of dowsing). The 'negative energy' > doen't neccessarily have to do with beliefs either; the author > of 'Report on Radionics', a 'believer', could not be in the > same room when certain tests were performed, he affected the > outcome. > > On a similar topic, are you familiar with the work of Robert > Jahn at the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research? > http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/ > > They have found, with statistical significance, that certain > individuals can affect the outcome of supposedly random > events. It's no news to me: I can roll dice or pick needed > cards blindly, until such time that I realize I'm doing it. > > Charlie > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 13:03:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22239; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:02:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:02:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199904062002.PAA28935@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: An Easter Gift Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:00:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gTBnK3.0.OR5.OXc2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com velly intelesting ============ ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: An Easter Gift > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 1:43 PM > > At 03:27 PM 4/4/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Termites dispose of, each year, all dead trees and plants of the world. > >This has gone on for all time and amounts to thousands of times more gases > >than man's burning. What is hurting the most is the destruction by man of > >the forests and biosphere which convert all this back to good air. Carbon > >dioxide is most responsible for retaining heat. Were it not for this, the > >earth would cool down much faster. > > > A good Free Energy device will cool the environment to generate power. Man > made CO2 is increasing global levels of the gas. This is increasing the > vapor content of the atmosphere. Increased vapor content of the atmosphere > affects the climate adversely. It maybe quicker to use appropriate Free > Energy devices to fix the problem than planting (and waiting for them to > grow) enough trees to do same. > > > > Regards; > Dennis > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 13:11:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25172; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:08:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:08:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199904062008.PAA00910@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: From Russia with Love Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:06:00 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3eL1H2.0.D96.kcc2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A metal dowser rod will detect definite differences in energy types. For example, use 2 rods, one in each hand. Hold 1 in front of an x-ray machine, touch the other to a 70,000 volt power line, and the diff will manifest itself immediately. Joe Portman...... =============== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: Recipient list suppressed > Subject: Re: From Russia with Love > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 12:14 PM > > Good paper. I knew about dowsing but could not appreciate its' significance > to a better understanding of things. Thanks. > > > At 07:33 AM 4/4/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Archaeology - New Energy > > > >A famous skeptic, James Randi, tested eleven well-known dowsers in > >Australia in 1980. Under the ground there were ten water pipes and at > >any time during the test, water could randomly flow through one of them. > >Although the dowsers had confidently predicted a high rate of success, > >the actual results were surprisingly low and it may well have been a > coincidence. > > I surmise that, James Randi brings such a huge amount of negative black > energy blobs (falun gong web search) attached to his EV, his presence > (attitude & behavior) adversely affects the lifeforce of the test subjects > thereby affecting dowsing results negatively. Falun Gong teaches that good > deeds will add white positive energy to one's EV. Accordingly bad deeds will > earn one a corresponding black blob. Is it possible to detect differences in > energy types with a dowsing rod? > > >The failure of the Australian test very likely stems from incorrect > >evaluation of reactions. > > Were they not experienced dowsers? > > >During our research we have determined that > >dowsing-rod reactions show a certain pattern, which must be respected in > >order to mark exactly the correct place searched. In an example similar > >to the Australian experiment I will try to acquaint you with new > >findings when working with a dowsing-rod. > > >The test area may be much simpler, it is enough to place one plastic > >tube under the ground and connect it to a water faucet. Dowsers will > >approach the buried tube in a perpendicular direction from a distance of > >at least fifty meters from the test area and they will stop in the same > >distance behind the test area. We will use metal dowsing-rods to > >simulate better the primeval ages, i.e. copper dowsing-rods. Water is > >flowing in the test tube and the dowser slowly walks along the route and > >marks all dowsing-rod reactions by hammering sticks in the ground. At > >first sight of approximately 15 sticks it is evident that distance > >between them are roughly the same with an exception - in the middle of > >the row there is a gap approximately four times wider. > > Any suggestions on proper gauge of copper wire? Idea - use Phi for the ratio > of the dowsing rod leg lengths (assuming L shaped rod)? Length of rod leg - > side that points foward - based on rEP? Does the dowsing rod design have any > effect on sensitivity? > > > >The dowsing-rod has shown one of its secrets, we have witnessed > >the dowsing-rod pattern code. The tube looked for is located in the > >middle of the great gap in a place where the dowsing-rod showed no > >reaction. We will now repeat the experiment in the same way, we will > >just increase the water flow rate in the tube and use sticks of > >different color for the second row. The result is the same, the tube > >looked for is in the middle of the great gap, which evidently increased > >in width, as did the other gaps. If we repeat the experiment with > >different water flow rates, will determine direct proportion between the > >volume of flowing water and the gaps. The same result can also be > >reached with a small natural stream. For bigger water flows the results > >are the same, however, too wide gaps between them make it difficult to > >find orientation among them. > > This maybe how James Randi messed with the above mentioned test? Why didn't > Mr. Randi use just one buried waterpipe. It appears that Mr. Randi knows how > to create conditions to make dowsing difficult. > > > > >In the same way as with the menhir we can identify energy of every > >matter - i.e. even of man. This probably concerns another > >secret of the dowsing-rod - why it reacts with certain people > >only. If we measure the energy of more people, we will find out that > >not all of them are equal in terms of energy. The energy space radius > >for humans ranges from 20 to 60 cm. We have experienced that the > >structure of energy spaces is very different, therefore, it may be > >assumed that the dowsing-rod only reacts with people who have a > >suitable combination of the energy space with its structure. > > > >If you gain enough experience with the dowsing-rod, then for small > >energy objects it will be sufficient to evaluate roughly only the radius > >of the energy space, we will gain the necessary information much faster. > > > >However, it must be born in mind that the energy space is > >three-dimensional. Merging two or more energy spaces into one common > >energy space equals the sum of their volumes. Therefore, we will assume > >that for two people with the same energy space radius of 30 cm, their > >common energy space radius will be much smaller than 60 cm. From now on > >we will mark energy space radius as rEP, energy space as EP and energy > >layers as EV. > > > >Two people standing next to each other in a distance greater than the > >sum of their rEP represent two separate energy objects and have > >their separate EP and EV. If they come closer to a distance smaller than > >the sum of their rEP, they will merge into one energy object with > >common EP and EV. From this moment, energy is slowly transferred > >between both persons, the person will lower energy absorbs energy > >from a person with higher energy. We must mention B=C3¸etislav > >Kavka here, who described the said energy transfer eighty years ago and > >commented on it in terms of psychology. Besides other, he stated that a > >person absorbing energy subconsciously feels sympathy, the person giving > >energy feels antipathy. > > I personally do not have any misgivings about passing knowledge to others. > The exception is when the receiver feels it necessary to use indirect ways > other than just asking. Information is a form of energy. Teaching others is > a form of energy transfer. However, one remembers what was just learned by > the student. The law of conservation of energy assumes an energy void > nonetheless and gives the OK to the space time fabric to put energy (new > information) back to fill the void. This is how teachers learn. This is why > teachers (should) teach. The relevence of what the teacher learns is > proportional to the useful of what was taught relative to the student. > Everyone can (and should) be a teacher. Try it and see for yourselves. > Beware of the mistake of teaching without teaching. Realative positive > usefulness of the info to the student is a key factor. > > > >Every separate grouping of matter in the > >nature forms a separate energy object. The transfer of energy > >between a man and a menhir may be proved easily. First, we have to find > >a menhir. If it no longer has any energy, this is because the water > >flow, to which it had been oriented, changed its watercourse several > >times over thousands of years and its EV are now located in different > >positions. We will not drag the menhir to a different place as did the > >primeval people, in our century we have means for that. We can turn a > >stone into a menhir by placing a case next to it with ten capacitors of > >total capacity of 1.5 F connected to 12 V. After one hour the stone has > >become a functional menhir and we can start to experiment. First, we > >have to measure its energy - using the already known procedure we will > >mark its energy components. A man will sit next to the menhir for an > >hour when we have measured his rEP with a dowsing-rod. When comes out of > >the menhir's EP, we will measure him again and the difference between > >both rEP represents energy gain that will slowly disappear as will the > >energy of the menhir. > > > >After several years of experiments with energy transfers you will learn > >to "see energy". You will not expect that by staying in a > >twelve-meter rEP of a big tree your rEP would increase to twelve meters > >but only to 90 cm. You will not be surprised that ten meters from the > >given tree your dowsing-rod will not function since you are part of the > >tree's energy, similarly as on a grown meadow or in another EP. You will > >have confirmed that the most aggressive impacts on your health are > >caused by ever-present energy components of very high voltage electric > >lines, which may raise our rEP up to 120 cm if we stay within their > >energy components. You will be aware that rEP of 120 cm may further be > >increased e.g. by alcohol etc. You will not be surprised that in terms > >of energy, alcohol functions in the same way if you have it in your > >pocket as if you drink it. After measuring your apartment you will find > >out that you are most endangered by the central heating system, electric > >lines and electric appliances. > > > >If your dowsing rod does not function in your apartment, the whole > >apartment is located in a common EP. The scope of its negative impact > >may be identified using an "energy probe", i.e. by leaving a > >plastic bottle filled with pure water for two days in the apartment. The > >water will absorb energy from your apartment. In an energy-free place > >where the dowsing-rod functions properly you can perform your > >evaluation: first, measure the rEP of a man, than give him the bottle > >from your apartment to hold and measure his rEP again, the difference > >between both rEP represents the EP value of your apartment. In the same > >way you can use the "energy probe" to perform rough evaluation > >of other energy objects within their energy components. If someone still > >considers reactions of the dowsing-rod unprovable, he can prove each of > >its reactions using selected capacitors, where the voltage on their > >electrodes increases within energy components and does not increase > >outside them. > > > >The dowsing-rod keeps back its last secret - what is the cause of > >reactions. The cause of reactions is the contact of two energy > >components. One energy component is the dowser's EP, the other > >component is the EP or EV of another energy object. Deviation of the > >dowsing-rod is caused by opposing force. The "butterfly" > >type of dowsing-rod only reacts if it sticks out from the dowser's EP so > >that it first contacts another energy object. > > > >Properties of both energy components are different from the properties > >of known energy forms. They are described in literature of the past > >centuries, we examine them and supplement them with our findings. We are > >going to publish them after completing research in this field. > > > >We call separate energy objects charges; since an opposing force acts > >between them similarly as between two positively charged objects. Our > >empirical research has been called Charge Interaction. > > > >Charge Interaction > > > > > >It has become a fact that the function principle which hides space > >energy unknown to us, which had to be re-discovered at the end of our > >millenium. Space energy was already known to primeval people and they > >utilized to their benefit. In order to find our way in the primeval > >ages, first we have to invalidate misleading hypotheses and acknowledge > >that people of the megalithic culture superseded us in one aspect of > >technical development. It sounds unbelievable but I will try to prove it. > > > >Using the drowsing-rod, our ancestors discovered the energy of water > >flows and their energy components. In the same way they discovered that > >a stone placed in an energy layer accumulates energy, which may be > >similarly transferred to a human body. On all continents, almost at the > >same time, they used to place stones in energy layers of water flows, we > >then called the stones menhirs. Very likely, they discovered another > >method of energy utilization when individual stones were no more > >sufficient for them, and they started to build greater sources - rows of > >menhirs, big round structures and pyramids. Another finding of theirs > >was the fact that clay has the same accumulation property. More than one > >hundred thousand clay bulwarks were built in North America, more > >followed in England and China. In order for a stone or clay bulwark to > >function as an energy accumulator, it has to insulated from the solid > >rock bed with a layer of suitable soil or other natural materials. From > >the above it follows that all structures built up to the present time, > >which are not built on a rock bed and have a layer of soil or other > >"insulation material" between the rock bed and the pit base > >can function as menhirs, they can accumulate energy in their matter. > > > >Menhirs were continuously enhanced. An area with clay bulwarks, > >underground channels and lakes in San Lorenzo was a big menhir with a > >controllable charge. The builders already knew that water could > >accumulate energy. By regulating the water flow rate in the underground > >channels, they were able to charge water in the lakes as well as the > >clay bulwarks. Underground water channels in the Nasca Plateau, which in > >several places lead under the Rio de Nasca river, suggest that the > >builders wanted to control the water flow rate in the channels. > >Otherwise, they would welcome water sources being interconnected. From > >the above it follows that the Nasca Plateau may have been an energy > >structure. Line in the plateau may be highlighted energy layers of water > >flows, sea streams etc. > > > >Menhirs were constructed on all continents almost at the same time, > >therefore, it must have been coordinated action that can be by no means > >called a coincidence. If we consider that primeval people used energy > >that we are going to learn about, we may even assume that we will > >probably learn even more. Water flow energy layers form a dense > >three-dimensional grid around our planet, which is conductive for space > >energy, therefore, we cannot exclude its use for communication. In case > >of D=C3¤ ninken's astronauts with aerials on their helmets, they > >did not necessarily have to be astronauts, they may have been our ancestors. > > > >In Western Europe, approximately sixty fortresses have been built using > >the melted stone technology. Arthur Clark has proved through experiments > >that no combustible material available at that time could be used to > >reach the necessary temperatures. Therefore, we may assume that the > >necessary temperature may have been acquired through transformation or > >accumulation of space energy. > > > >Speaking of space energy, we have to divide the life on the Earth into > >two periods. From the ancient ages to the nineteenth century and from > >then on. In the nineteenth century, when the electrification began, > >electric grids disrupted the natural energy balance formed by water > >flows and sea streams. When we look at a map showing high voltage and > >very high voltage lines, we will easily find out that there are many > >more energy grids than water flows. Energy grids generate similar energy > >in layers copying their location and direction in the same way as water > >flows do, they also interact with each other. In some places there is a > >permanent energy overload. > > > >Energy layers of energy grids, contrary to water flow energy layers, are > >not mobile, they may be called static, their gaps are determined by the > >voltage irrespective of the amount of current flowing through, they are > >more aggressive. The science still does not pay attention to the > >negative impacts of energy overloads on organisms but statistics does. > >The Health Information and Statistics Institute (HISI) has published a > >map of the country which shows highlighted places with different > >occurrence of oncologic diseases. Great woodland areas are marked as > >places with the highest occurrence of cancer. Places with no woods show > >a lower number of cancer occurrences. The question why it is so may be > >answered through research of charge interaction. > > > >According to HISI statistics, cities as a whole are a little better off > >but they show some critical places. This is confirmed by statistics of > >MUDr. Old=C3¸ich Juri=C5=B7ka, who for half a century marked > >occurrences of cancer in the map of Olomouc. In most cases, the patients > >came from the same streets or individual houses. In terms of energy this > >is the same issue as in the =C5 umava Mountains. The energy > >overload is caused by cables, sewage ducts, water distribution pipes, > >gas pipes and steam pipes. Engineering grids form one common charge with > >one common energy space, which reliably intercepts energy of different > >charge energy layers and creates a permanent energy overload. Place > >where energy layers cross represent the most aggressive and critical places. > > > >A cell membrane has a capacity (Cm =3D 1 µ F * > >cm-2), therefore, it also has a charge. A charged capacitor > >also has a capacity and a charge. Man has an average value of energy > >space radius of 35 cm, a similar value is shown by 3 capacitors > >with a total capacity of 2 F charged at 6 V. The same energy space > >radius will be shown by any number of capacitors with the same total > >capacity provided that their energy space overlap. It is very difficult > >to measure the capacity of cell membrane, it cannot be performed in > >every doctor's office. I am not going to recommend doctors some primeval > >practices but energy values of man may be quickly determined by > >measuring the energy space radius. It seems to me a question of the near > >future that doctors will be equipped with a device that will supersede > >the drowsing-rod in many aspects. Energy value is one of the crucial > >factors for man's health. This is supported by measuring sound and ill > >people. For many centuries, healers have used this fact by passing some > >of their energy to their patients. However, in some cases in our century > >this works no more, people sometimes suffer not from a lack of energy > >but from its abundance. It is more than likely that in the near future > >specialized research entities will prove that there is a connection > >between deformation of cell membranes and long-term stay in an > >overloaded locality. Historical literature states examples how to > >relieve of abundant energy but this is just for the short run. We live > >in a permanent overload which must be solved in the whole territory. > > I would like to try this dowsing technique on land I will be looking at > soon. Any suggestions on what to look for in terms of good energy patterns? > There's a river running through it with funny bends and lots of hardwood > trees about. > > > Regards; > Dennis > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 13:17:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29709; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:14:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199904062014.PAA01912@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism) tounconventional wisdom Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:12:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gYjaj.0.6G7.aic2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I doubt it...... =========== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: Recipient list suppressed > Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism) tounconventional wisdom > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:52 PM > > My God, where does one begin with something like this? > > > At 08:38 PM 4/4/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Three of the major observations of this report establishes the > >following: > > > > (1) Since doubt is considered a legitimate function within > > intellectual processes, the role of those who doubt is given > > more legitimacy than those who do not doubt. Were this not so > > then the meaning of doubt would become vague. > > I do not consider doubt a legitimate intellectual process when confronting > something new. I think 'what is it' until everything possible is heard. Then > you check all the data for accuracy and the answer is obvious. Doubt without > reason relative to the issue in question in and of itself, is not logical. > > > (2) When doubt is superimposed on direct human > > experiencing, then the doubt assumes a priority because of its > > perceived legitimacy. The superimposition then results in a > > subtle shift of focus away from examining the direct human > > experiencing and reinstalls the focus within the contexts of the > > various intellectualisms that have become involved. > > > > (3) The history of intellectualisms demonstrates (a) that they > > have relatively short terms of social fashionability, and (b) that > > they tend to be elitist in nature because the larger populations > > either do not, or cannot, share in them. > > > >Combining these three observations results in a fourth: that doubt > >is relative to social enclaves and is thus only transitory against > >larger issues that remain permanent within the direct experiential > >thresholds of our species. > > > >Reducing these four observations to a possibly crude level, > >skeptics and debunkers come and go --- but the experiencing > >thresholds of the species remain the same. The experiencing > >thresholds are therefore perpetual. Skepticism that advocates > >doubt regarding something perpetual is relevant only to the > >transitory intellectual boundaries within which it has arisen. > > > >As an apt illustration of the above, Albert Einstein introduced his > >special theory of relativity in 1905 while he was still a student > >and working in the patent office in Switzerland. The skeptical > >responses regarding the theory, and him as a scientist and man, > >were not only noisy but exceedingly --voluminous.-- > > > >By 1925, historians appraised that the Einstein "debate" had > >accumulated the largest printed paper volume ever. > > > >When the special theory was proven correct between 1927 and > >1929, it was shown that relativity was perpetual --- naturally > >existing and true. The skeptical and debunking responses were > >shown as transitory, however ardent and voluminous they had > >been. None of the names of Einstein's skeptics are remembered. > >And this is the ignominious fate of most skeptics --- because the > >times and tides of discovery march on and forget they existed. > > There maybe great social costs caused by such a system of automated baseless > naysaying. A delay will result in the use of the idea which could cause > otherwise preventable difficulty to the innocent bystanders who have to live > on this planet. > > > >The verb "debunk" means "to expose the sham of falseness of > >something." Debunking is therefore a valuable function and > >always has been --- in that certain specimens of our species like to > >engineer sham and falseness in order to benefit from them. > > > >Implicit in the term, however, is the distinction between (1) > >exposing --after the fact of examination, and (2) accusing --before > >the fact. In this double sense, the term can take on Machiavellian > >efficiency. > > > >"Machiavellianism" refers to Machiavelli's political theory that > >politics is amoral and that any means however unscrupulous can > >justifiably be used in achieving political power or purposes. > > > >The introduction of Machiavellianism into skepticism and > >debunking runs counter to their original ethical function and sets > >up lachrymose contexts so labyrinthine that very few can > >negotiate them. Indeed, Machiavellianism can only be effective > >provided the labyrinthine contexts cannot be unravelled. > > > >As but one example of Machiavellian debunking, though, I refer > >the truly interested to the paper entitled "Science Versus > >Showmanship: A History of the Randi Hoax" by Michael A. > >Thalbourne just published in The Journal of the American > >Society for Psychical Research (Oct. 1995, Vol.89, No. 4). > > > >--Resistance-- to such research --before-- the facts of the > >superpowers can be ascertained is therefore puzzling. > > > >The only possible explanation must involve not discoverable facts > >which could speak for themselves but --motives and agendas.-- > > > >Most of us recognize that this is the usual case regarding most > >human confusions --- assuming that mere stupidity or lack of > >knowledge are not involved as the first instance. But the > >introduction of motives and agendas further complicates this > >particular situation already lamentably labyrinthine in its overall > >character. > > > >The etymological history of the term "skepticism" shows that it > >has undergone several definition formats and social applications > >since it was first coined in ancient Greece --- down until today > >when it is almost exclusively taken as referring to someone > >opposed to the "paranormal" and anything resembling them. > > > >During the Renaissance period, when the schism between science > >and religion started up, skepticism was largely taken as referring > >to "doubt concerning basic religious principles" such as > >immortality, providence, revelation, the existence of the soul, etc. > >This is to say that --skepticism-- was then used almost as a > >synonym for anti-religion on behalf of sequestering the evolving > >sciences from it. > > > >The ethical, and even logical goal of the true skeptic is to resolve > >doubt by identifying facts, not to reinforce doubt in the absence of > >discovered facts --- and certainly not to underwrite Machiavellian > >debunking tactics to prevent the needed research. > > > >True skepticism does not --begin-- by being anti- anything. The > >processes of open consideration and examination (i.e., research) > >will ultimately establish whether something exists or not. > > > >There is hardly no other way via which doubt, belief, or > >confusions between them can be resolved on behalf of acquiring > >increases in knowledge. And this is especially true as regards the > >true extent of human sentiency --- for sentient beings have an > >inalienable bio-mind right to know of the true extent of their > >sentiency. > > > >If such a skeptic is utilizing the conventional definitions of the > >modern mainstream sciences and philosophies --which have > >neither considered nor researched the unconventional, then such a > >skeptic is utilizing nothing at all except hearsay or prejudice > >based on it. Clearly those who --have-- attempted to research the > >unconventional know more about them than those who never have > >made the attempt --- just as conventional modern scientists and > >philosophers have not. > > > >Here is the basis for a pogrom. A "pogrom" is defined as "an > >organized massacre of helpless people." Such a pogrom regarding > >"sensitives" took place during the Inquisitions of the Middle > >Ages. Some historians estimate the high body count at 9 million > >over a 300-year period. Ridicule and defamation during modern > >times of sensitives and researchers of the unconventional is a kind of > >pogrom, especially when supported in the mainstream media. > > > >It is interesting indeed why in our scientific times there should be > >such a pogrom that victimizes our species unconventional views > >with its marvelous spectrum of sentiency. It may be that > >someone somewhere doesn't want that marvelous spectrum to be > >identified and DEVELOPED. > > Could a bunch of idiots running amock produce the same results. > > >*From a paper produced by Ingo Swann for the Intelligence > >Community (aka the CIA) on Social Resistance to Psi. > > > Let me guess, this is required reading at CIA U. What message will the > average cadet get from this? Would it be something like: > > 1. Doubt is intelligent > > 2. Doubters get respect and control of situations. > > 3. Let's see... debunk... skepticism... Machiavelli... pogrom... > > 4. Someone somewhere who apparently transcends time and space wants this > POGROM thing... > > Conclusion of average CIA wannabe - Gee this must be the recommended and > approved Modus Operandi when encountering similar situations in the field... > > > Dennis > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 14:08:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26651; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:06:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:06:50 -0700 Message-ID: <001601be8071$6dec1200$c645fea9@y9g6r3> From: "atg0317" To: Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:06:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1oq6t3.0.GW6.fTd2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com From: Joe Portman To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel >If you have a good idea that is useful in today's times, then there are at >least 10 other people in the US working on it, and who knows how many in >world. A patent search is always prudent before spending a lot of time and >money. >The voice of experience...duh...Joe Portman >==================================== From: Joe Portman To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel >If you have a good idea that is useful in today's times, then there are at >least 10 other people in the US working on it, and who knows how many in >world. So does that mean that 9 should stop and move on to something else ? So what if 10,000 were working on the same thing, does that mean all will succeed ? It's not likely that all <10> or so will develop the same thing in the same way, one or maybe two will stand out from the others and be the choice. One should never be scared or back off from something just because someone else may be working on it. Gee! if this were the case football would not exist as there are two many on a team trying to achieve the goal. > A patent search is always prudent before spending a lot of time and >money. This only helps if an application or patent is already granted and *NOT* suppressed. You will not find daily reports of what's going on in every garage in the word. Even so what the hay, first to get there has the privilege of being the one to first pay the lawyers to fend off the *I HAD IT FIRST* group. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 14:13:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05532; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990406211033.13642.rocketmail@web109.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:10:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: David Colishaw - Bessler's wheel thoughts - MicroSpace! - DavidC] To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"82Lvs2.0.FM1.7Yd2t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I thought David was the inventor of the GIT. Others helped him define his ideas a bit more, but it's his brainchild. --- "Don J. S. Adams" wrote: > David's a relatively infamous researcher into the > GIT alt tech., > he's taken some creative stabs at the un-balanced > wheel scenario... > no luck yet... but still fun to look at! > > see attached === Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 14:19:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA15976; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:18:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:18:27 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990406212417.015d6920@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 17:24:17 -0400 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism) tounconventional wisdom Resent-Message-ID: <"QxcER2.0.Fv3.Zed2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 03:12 PM 4/6/99 -0500, you wrote: >I doubt it...... >=========== OK, let's see if we can test your theory. To all willing to participate, please read the following passage. Reply to this message with the amount of time you spent thinking about the following along with what you conclude from reading the passage. No peeking at other responses before sending your answer. Regards; Dennis Three of the major observations of this report establishes the following: (1) Since doubt is considered a legitimate function within intellectual processes, the role of those who doubt is given more legitimacy than those who do not doubt. Were this not so then the meaning of doubt would become vague. (2) When doubt is superimposed on direct human experiencing, then the doubt assumes a priority because of its perceived legitimacy. The superimposition then results in a subtle shift of focus away from examining the direct human experiencing and reinstalls the focus within the contexts of the various intellectualisms that have become involved. (3) The history of intellectualisms demonstrates (a) that they have relatively short terms of social fashionability, and (b) that they tend to be elitist in nature because the larger populations either do not, or cannot, share in them. Combining these three observations results in a fourth: that doubt is relative to social enclaves and is thus only transitory against larger issues that remain permanent within the direct experiential thresholds of our species. Reducing these four observations to a possibly crude level, skeptics and debunkers come and go --- but the experiencing thresholds of the species remain the same. The experiencing thresholds are therefore perpetual. Skepticism that advocates doubt regarding something perpetual is relevant only to the transitory intellectual boundaries within which it has arisen. As an apt illustration of the above, Albert Einstein introduced his special theory of relativity in 1905 while he was still a student and working in the patent office in Switzerland. The skeptical responses regarding the theory, and him as a scientist and man, were not only noisy but exceedingly --voluminous.-- By 1925, historians appraised that the Einstein "debate" had accumulated the largest printed paper volume ever. When the special theory was proven correct between 1927 and 1929, it was shown that relativity was perpetual --- naturally existing and true. The skeptical and debunking responses were shown as transitory, however ardent and voluminous they had been. None of the names of Einstein's skeptics are remembered. And this is the ignominious fate of most skeptics --- because the times and tides of discovery march on and forget they existed. The verb "debunk" means "to expose the sham of falseness of something." Debunking is therefore a valuable function and always has been --- in that certain specimens of our species like to engineer sham and falseness in order to benefit from them. Implicit in the term, however, is the distinction between (1) exposing --after the fact of examination, and (2) accusing --before the fact. In this double sense, the term can take on Machiavellian efficiency. "Machiavellianism" refers to Machiavelli's political theory that politics is amoral and that any means however unscrupulous can justifiably be used in achieving political power or purposes. The introduction of Machiavellianism into skepticism and debunking runs counter to their original ethical function and sets up lachrymose contexts so labyrinthine that very few can negotiate them. Indeed, Machiavellianism can only be effective provided the labyrinthine contexts cannot be unravelled. As but one example of Machiavellian debunking, though, I refer the truly interested to the paper entitled "Science Versus Showmanship: A History of the Randi Hoax" by Michael A. Thalbourne just published in The Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research (Oct. 1995, Vol.89, No. 4). --Resistance-- to such research --before-- the facts of the superpowers can be ascertained is therefore puzzling. The only possible explanation must involve not discoverable facts which could speak for themselves but --motives and agendas.-- Most of us recognize that this is the usual case regarding most human confusions --- assuming that mere stupidity or lack of knowledge are not involved as the first instance. But the introduction of motives and agendas further complicates this particular situation already lamentably labyrinthine in its overall character. The etymological history of the term "skepticism" shows that it has undergone several definition formats and social applications since it was first coined in ancient Greece --- down until today when it is almost exclusively taken as referring to someone opposed to the "paranormal" and anything resembling them. During the Renaissance period, when the schism between science and religion started up, skepticism was largely taken as referring to "doubt concerning basic religious principles" such as immortality, providence, revelation, the existence of the soul, etc. This is to say that --skepticism-- was then used almost as a synonym for anti-religion on behalf of sequestering the evolving sciences from it. The ethical, and even logical goal of the true skeptic is to resolve doubt by identifying facts, not to reinforce doubt in the absence of discovered facts --- and certainly not to underwrite Machiavellian debunking tactics to prevent the needed research. True skepticism does not --begin-- by being anti- anything. The processes of open consideration and examination (i.e., research) will ultimately establish whether something exists or not. There is hardly no other way via which doubt, belief, or confusions between them can be resolved on behalf of acquiring increases in knowledge. And this is especially true as regards the true extent of human sentiency --- for sentient beings have an inalienable bio-mind right to know of the true extent of their sentiency. If such a skeptic is utilizing the conventional definitions of the modern mainstream sciences and philosophies --which have neither considered nor researched the unconventional, then such a skeptic is utilizing nothing at all except hearsay or prejudice based on it. Clearly those who --have-- attempted to research the unconventional know more about them than those who never have made the attempt --- just as conventional modern scientists and philosophers have not. Here is the basis for a pogrom. A "pogrom" is defined as "an organized massacre of helpless people." Such a pogrom regarding "sensitives" took place during the Inquisitions of the Middle Ages. Some historians estimate the high body count at 9 million over a 300-year period. Ridicule and defamation during modern times of sensitives and researchers of the unconventional is a kind of pogrom, especially when supported in the mainstream media. It is interesting indeed why in our scientific times there should be such a pogrom that victimizes our species unconventional views with its marvelous spectrum of sentiency. It may be that someone somewhere doesn't want that marvelous spectrum to be identified and DEVELOPED. *From a paper produced by Ingo Swann for the Intelligence Community (aka the CIA) on Social Resistance to Psi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 14:30:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06165; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:30:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:30:21 -0700 Message-ID: <19990406213035.16239.rocketmail@web109.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:30:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Peletier device? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"N-BAD1.0.uV1.ipd2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I too like the P-junction devices, but unless you need super-quiet cooling/heating [read -- spy sub] it's not an efficient device [as far as us un-classified folks know] --- Marcus Cole wrote: > Hi, this is my first post. I am intrigued by that > Peletier device. I am a > curious guy, and have lots of questions, and sadly > few answer. Now for a > few of them: > > 1) If we made a solar heater and a 'probe' that > could be immersed in a > large body of water, like a lac or the ocean, how > much power could be > produced using the peletier device? > Probably less than what you can get with PV. PV is around %10-%15 efficient--theoritical max is around %34...I think. I seem to remember that P-junctions are even worse. Until PV materials improve, The best approach seems to be a solar-stirling engine. I remember seeing info about solar-stirlings approaching in excess of %30 overall efficency. > 2) For space exploration, if we have a nuclear > reactor, which produce lots > of heat, connected to a peletier device with the > cold side being in > outerspace, would electric power be produced in > enough quantity to sustain > such thing as space probe, stations, etc? Probably more efficient to just boil water with that reactor than screw with a p-junction. > > I could go on with my questions, but i'll wait for > another time, when my > ideas are more > sorted out. Thanks for your time > > Marcus Cole > > > No matter how straight the Gate, > How charged with punishment the Soul, > I am the Captain of my Fate, > The Master of my Soul > > === Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 15:40:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA11500; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:40:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:40:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19990406224024.29220.rocketmail@web109.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:40:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism) tounconventional wisdom To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ZeSR33.0.Sp2.7re2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A couple of points - [time spent analyzing=5min. time spent in email reply=20min] 1 - the article in question was written by Ingo Swann -- he is one of the folks that investigated PSI/Remote Viewing with the CIA and SRI....not exactly one of the establishment, and probably not included in the CIA indoctrination propaganda. It seems that you all are missing his point. His point is that doubt is a good thing...if backed by factual evidence in favor of the doubt. Prejudiced doubt is a bad thing, and will limit your ability to accept new ideas. Those who investigate new things [like 'fringe' science, PSI, and such] need to keep a good measure of realistic skeptitism....otherwise it's easy to fall off the deep end of the pool. 2 - Doubt is always part of the rational process. Example: I tell you I saw a UFO fly over my house last nite. Your probable reaction [and a reasonable logical reaction....would probably be similar to my own reaction after viewing the UFO myself] is to ask me if I am sure it wasn't a plane, if I had been drinking, if it was foggy, etc. That's doubt. There's nothing wrong with it. Now -- if I show you pictures, have other witnesses, factual evidence -- and you still doubt the facts...then your doubting has entered a new level. You are now doubting against the evidence/experiance based on your own intellectual biases. It just can't be possible you say.......... All for now. === Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 15:41:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10570; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:37:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:37:30 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990406224314.01608ac8@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:43:14 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: From Russia with Love Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA10485 Resent-Message-ID: <"KsiS52.0.3b2.goe2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 03:06 PM 4/6/99 -0500, you wrote: >A metal dowser rod will detect definite differences in energy types. >For example, use 2 rods, one in each hand. Hold 1 in front of an x-ray >machine, touch the other to a 70,000 volt power line, and the diff will >manifest itself immediately. >Joe Portman...... Oh no, sounds like a threat to me. BTW, do you remember what winter was like 30 or so years ago? I remember snow on the ground for weeks and temperatures in the 30s for that time. Now, winter storms are half snow and half rain in this area. The corresponding increase in the average global temperature is about 0.2 - 0.3 degrees C. It seems like a big climate change to me for such a small average temperature increase. I wonder what it would be like when the average global temperature increases another fraction of a degree over the next year or two? What's to stop it from increasing anyways? Not to mention the PBS NOVA show 'Warnings From The Ice' summary, which stated the following: There is evidence that an average global temperature threshold exists where once exceeded, causes a climate trigger which drasticly changes weather conditions on a planetary scale. Earlier in the same NOVA show they presented data from Greenland icecore analysis. They found that climate changes are abrupt and can occur in as little as one or two years. They were referring to ice age conditions. If that happens, where will food come from? So if you must, go ahead and send your hitman. I'll find Jehovah in the after life and ask him to come back with me to help 'take care' of all who are responsible. ;) Dennis (Sorry about the signature Bill, but Mr. Portman obviously didn't see it yet. I hope Mr. Portman has the attention span to understand what is said.) ________________________________________________________________ Starfire http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html Concentric Tori http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com REPORT of the COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY 1997 SENATE DOCUMENT 105-2 http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/index.html ________________________________________ When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I only think of how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -R. Buckminster Fuller- ________________________________________ 'G' defines 'objective art': "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - ______________________________________________________________________________ "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower tones; and must be part of an organized whole." - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - ______________________________________________________________________________ The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) _______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 4.2. General Restrictions on Access. (b) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency's control. (e) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified information have controls that: (2) ensure the integrity of the information. ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 5.7. Sanctions. (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives may have occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be taken. (b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently: (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this order or predecessor orders; (2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this order or any implementing directive; (3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of this order; ______________________________________________________________________________ Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html Sec. 3.2. Authority for Declassification. (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order. (b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure. _______________________________________________________________________________ >From "What's New?" at http://www.physicsweb.org Antarctic glaciers feel the heat [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is theoretically unstable and that the retreat could become irreversible. Many believe that such an event would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns that are sensitive to small vertical movements. These patterns provide information on the velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this was being caused by an influx of warm water from the Southern Pacific Ocean. Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of centuries. Global warming confirmed from space [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality of global warming. Now, however, calculations by Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing Systems in California have shown that small decays in the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy (Nature 394 661). Previously satellite measurements have suggested that the atmosphere was cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while ground-based instruments showed an increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand outwards, which increases the drag experienced by satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate models and explains why the satellites had seen increased cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. Humans are the cause of climate change [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and solar activity to global warming appears to have been resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with results from two leading computer models. They found that the best fit to the data occurred when this century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to have been caused mainly by mankind's output of greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse gases and changes in the sun's output. Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer models four times, each time with a different set of parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising levels of greenhouse gases. They first found that there was wide discrepancies between the output of both computer models and the experimental data in the first data set. This indicated that some mechanism was increasing the global temperature this century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming experiment), the only model that matched both simulation and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. According to Wigley: "These results provide another important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, they provide additional evidence that the models used to make projections of future climate change are realistic." ________________________________________________________________________________ http://www.bitlaw.com/source/35usc/183.html U.S. Patent Act - Patent Laws Title 35 United States Code Section 183, Right to compensation An applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, whose patent is withheld as herein provided, shall have the right, beginning at the date the applicant is notified that, except for such order, his application is otherwise in condition for allowance, or February 1, 1952, whichever is later, and ending six years after a patent is issued thereon, to apply to the head of any department or agency who caused the order to be issued for compensation for the damage caused by the order of secrecy and/or for the use of the invention by the Government, resulting from his disclosure. The right to compensation for use shall begin on the date of the first use of the invention by the Government. The head of the department or agency is authorized, upon the presentation of a claim, to enter into an agreement with the applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, in full settlement for the damage and/or use. This settlement agreement shall be conclusive for all purposes not withstanding any other provision of law to the contrary. If full settlement of the claim cannot be effected, the head of the department or agency may award and pay to such applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, a sum not exceeding 75 per centum of the sum which the head of the department or agency considers just compensation for the damage and/or use. A claimant may bring suit against the United States in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal Claims] or in the District Court of the United States for the district in which such claimant is a resident for an amount which when added to the award shall constitute just compensation for the damage and/or use of the invention by the Government. The owner of any patent issued upon an application that was subject to a secrecy order issued pursuant to section 181 of this title, who did not apply for compensation as above provided, shall have the right, after the date of issuance of such patent, to bring suit in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal Claims] for just compensation for the damage caused by reason of the order of secrecy and/or use by the Government of the invention resulting from his disclosure. The right to compensation for use shall begin on the date of the first use of the invention by the Government. In a suit under the provisions of this section the United States may avail itself of all defenses it may plead in an action under section 1498 of title 28. This section shall not confer a right of action on anyone or his successors, assigns, or legal representatives who, while in the full-time employment or service of the United States, discovered, invented, or developed the invention on which the claim is based. ____________________________________________________________________________ ______ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 15:42:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13111; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:42:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:42:04 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <280b142d.243be6b6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:37:42 EDT Subject: Re: Peletier device? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"LUZdS.0.LC3.wse2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/6/99 2:07:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, trebla@netrover.com writes: << Hi, this is my first post. I am intrigued by that Peletier device. I am a curious guy, and have lots of questions, and sadly few answer. Now for a few of them: 1) If we made a solar heater and a 'probe' that could be immersed in a large body of water, like a lac or the ocean, how much power could be produced using the peletier device? 2) For space exploration, if we have a nuclear reactor, which produce lots of heat, connected to a peletier device with the cold side being in outerspace, would electric power be produced in enough quantity to sustain such thing as space probe, stations, etc? >> In 2) I think you are describing a RTG (radioisotope thermal generator). I believe the Russians used them in one of their satellites and there was a fuss about possible radioactive material scattering when it reentered the atmosphere. But in any event that is a very good design for relatively low levels of power for LONG periods of time. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 15:46:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16831; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:46:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:46:09 -0700 Message-ID: <19990406224626.349.rocketmail@web109.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:46:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"DRpsh.0.u64.nwe2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sounds like a good time to apply for a prelim patent. Prelim patent gives you about a year to get investors, protoype, etc together. Then you can apply for a real patent. Or document the idea and date/time with ceritifed mail. Both of these methods should document idea precendece, and allow you to discuss the idea openly. Note - I am not a legal expert, nor do I understand patent law. These are just ideas. Do your own research to see what makes sense. --- atg0317 wrote: > From: Joe Portman > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > > > >If you have a good idea that is useful in today's > times, then there are at > >least 10 other people in the US working on it, and > who knows how many in > >world. A patent search is always prudent before > spending a lot of time and > >money. > >The voice of experience...duh...Joe Portman > >==================================== > From: Joe Portman > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > > > >If you have a good idea that is useful in today's > times, then there are at > >least 10 other people in the US working on it, and > who knows how many in > >world. > > So does that mean that 9 should stop and move on to > something else ? So what > if 10,000 were working on the same thing, does that > mean all will succeed ? > > It's not likely that all <10> or so will develop the > same thing in the same > way, one or maybe two will stand out from the others > and be the choice. One > should never be scared or back off from something > just because someone else > may be working on it. Gee! if this were the case > football would not exist as > there are two many on a team trying to achieve the > goal. > > > > A patent search is always prudent before spending > a lot of time and > >money. > > This only helps if an application or patent is > already granted and *NOT* > suppressed. You will not find daily reports of > what's going on in every > garage in the word. Even so what the hay, first to > get there has the > privilege of being the one to first pay the lawyers > to fend off the *I HAD > IT FIRST* group. > > === Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 16:27:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00653; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:27:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:27:20 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) Newsgroups: list.freenrg1 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Pat Harris's Flapper Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:14:43 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: Lines: 344 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.27Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"eCtkV1.0.6A.NXf2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Considering the the messages of the last few days, I though I'd dig up a message from the begnning of the list about five years ago. Any one ever build one of Pat's "Flappers"? I've tried but I'm a klutz when it comes to mechanical aptitude. Here are some of his comments about it, below, and how to do it. I've never understood why people wanted these complicated circular tracks, unbalanced wheels etc. when you could do a see-saw/teeter-toter... He is not around any longer to defend his work, and I'm not going to spend my time doing so either. Build it and see what, or what does not, happens. [Reset of words by Pat Harris:] Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 05:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris [Address no longer works] Subject: PatHarris Device To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com On 3-OCT-1995 03:07:26.1 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >>It's clear the runner is *released*, not given a push. It >>has to be aligned correctly. My guess is the person >>aligning it feels a pressure of the runner against his >>fingers when it's properly aligned. In the demo, the person >>aligns it and then simply lays his finger on the rod to keep >>it from moving, then removes his finger, and the runner >>starts to move immediately. >I'm not quite clear on what is happening here. If this >device continues to move back and forth, or will go over >many, many "hills" of the same height, then it is very >important. If it does, then consider a book before somebody >else writes one on it. (And all of the organizations into >this kind of thing out there will sell it for you). What you read above was a description of my device as seen on a videotape I sent to Judy Stein in NYC about 14, 15 months ago. It was first put out in November of 1993, and reproduced by two gentlemen in December of 1993. Although my original demo simply goes up and down two hills, one of the gentleman went to four inclines, and there is really not limit, since, once a runner is introduced into the track, it will climb the incline. My demo uses the same magnets it used 20 years ago. The height of the hills or inclines are identical, and they accelerate up the hill, as they enter each new hill. >But also, a movie of it on the web would help you sell a >book. I have a source now for turning a video into a .avi >file for the web. I can't think of a more exciting first use >of that equipment and software. So I'd like to try to talk >you into sending a video of it, and I can attach the .avi >file to an email message to you, for your website if you have >one. And I would ask that you let me put the video on my site >also. Cannot write a book. I am not a scientist; and if you read the bad news, you would realize I am concerned about the source more than I am the product or its promotion. Besides, it has been stated it violates some laws of physics and I have been through enough of that over the past two years. You see, other than the information I get in dreams, I haven't the slightest idea of what is happening. I stopped sending out videotapes in the hopes that someone else would come up with something. So far, no dice. Here, and for others, is what is being sent out in order for others to build and experiment with their on TOMI device. CONSTRUCTION ------------ To construct your own TOMI (Theory Of Magnetic Instability) device; 1) For the ONE ramp test Buy 30 circular magnets (with the hole in the middle) from Radio Shack, these cost $1.69 for 5 magnets, so the magnets will cost about $10.00 For the TWO ramp test Buy 50 circular magnets (with the hole in the middle) from Radio Shack, about $17.00 2) Take some stiff cardboard and make two hills (each hill consists of an incline and a decline, experiment with the angle, about 30 degrees) 3) Make three rolls (or five rolls if you are using 2 ramps) of 10 magnets each (connect the magnets to form 10 magnet stacks, kind of like a roll of Lifesavers 4) Tape these magnets together with scotch tape 5) The ones for the side of the ramps are called RUNNERS, one other 10 magnet roll is used as the ROLLER that moves up the incline between the RUNNERS 4) On each ramp (incline), you attach one roll of magnets running up each side, so that's two magnet rolls per incline and NONE on the decline 5) The RUNNER magnets on the sides should arranged to be of opposite polarity, that is, North at the top on one side, South at the top on the opposite side 6) The ROLLER should be placed at the base of the ramp with its poles facing like poles on the RUNNERS, since LIKE magnetic poles REPEL, this will provide the repulsion you require to make the ROLLER move up the incline between the RUNNERS. The Pole arrangement should look like this: N S | | | | | | | | S S---------N N Each successive track set and runner should conform to the above configuration and you line them up! The best results will be obtained if you put a strip of cardboard across the back of the first track. Then you simply set the runner onto the track at the base of the incline, see that it is lined up and let it go. Be sure that the runner is close to the tracks on both sides. If you wish, you can get little medicine bottle caps, the kind with rotating tops, and glue the magnets inside of each cap. Then you have wheels and you can change the width of the runner all you like. Pat Harris ***************** Now it is up to your own ingenuity to simply figure what makes it work. If you like to test something and wish to waste some money, then buy two bar magnets and replace the runner sides in the above description. When this fails, you can then figure out why. Then you can take photos and show your own. Since I am not a scientist and a little flaky with my ideas of where this comes from, it is probably best that someone else does write the book. Regards, Pat On 20-OCT-1995 11:22:45.2 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >I have buit the TOMI device, several sizes and several >forms.. I have also built several forms of circular TOMI's >and have discovered an interesting phenomena that occurs with >the magnets arranged in a circular pattern. I think you are making the same mistake most have made. You wish to make the track 'hot' instead of the 'vehicle.' Most people I have read on this subject seem to be hooked on the circular flat track, or even in straight linear tracks. I stated a long time ago when I put out the basic TOMI concept and demo that I had created a circular track and in 200 attempts at circumnavigation, I had succeeded twice. It was most a construction problem. But from a strict common-sense viewpoint, to make the circular track itself the drive or motor is much the same as stringing wires for the old trolley cars. The answers was simply to make the trolley car with a built-in motor. Let us go with a simple fact. My TOMI, now 20 years old, still the same magnets I bought 20 years ago, has never failed to lift the runner in the same predictable manner all during that period of time. I also had other demos which suspended a mass, the least being suspended for 10 years. So a conclusion can be made, despite your suspicions, that every time a runner is introduced into the track, it will lift the runner in the same predicatble manner for a very long time. After 20 years it is still lifting the same runner to the same heights. Then may I suggest that you turn your thinking toward implementing a version of CM (continuous motion) which uses only a single incline. Cheaper, fewer magnets, less construction. What you have to work with is a method to get a mass to a height. I have spoken to many engineers and they all state that once you have a mass to a height, is pure engineering to put that mass to work! So the only problem would seem to be to get the mass back to the base of the incline after it accomplishes some work, moves something, whatever. (In the beginning, it would seem sufficient to simply demonstrate CM.) B / / | / | / | / | A / | D ------------ C Follow: When you inserted the runner into the system at A, has it ever failed to rise to B and then descend? My own personal experience of 20 years: NO! In the process of moving from B to C, I doubt there is any question that some work can be accomplished. After all, this is the simple concept of a piledriver. All you have to do is figure out how to get the mass from C to D, back into the system of the single track, and Voila! You have CM! What is so difficult about that? PatHarris@Delphi.Com On 21-OCT-1995 15:00:20.3 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >At 10:02 PM 10/20/95, Pat Harris wrote: >> B >> / >> / | >> / | >> / | >> / | >> A / | >> D ------------ C >> >>All you have to do is figure out how to get the mass from C to D, >>back into the system of the single track, and Voila! You have >>CM! >> >>What is so difficult about that? >Perhaps we shall see, Pat. Thank you for reducing the >question to a very simple form. Despite my inclinations, I >will endeavor to study this problem soon...because my >"inclinations" just might be wrong. Well, have fun. I will give you one more clue for when 'soon' arrives. But progress will depend upon your inclinations, of course. B X / / / / o / | / | / | 0/ | A | D | C __________________________________ 'o' is an axle, a pivot point. Mass '0' is moved from 'A' to 'B.' What do you think happens then? Is it just possible, despite all your inclinations to the contrary, that mass '0' could move toward 'C,' then 'D,' then back to 'A'? And upon reentering the track at 'A,' do you really believe that, because it went up the incline once before, it will not climb the incline again? the Law of Conservation of Energy says that the kinetic energy of the movement of the mass up the incline is converted to PE at the upper apex. The law of equilibrium would seem to dictate the arm pivoting and swinging like a pendulum. The law of the swing for pendulum, in the configuration above, guarantees the heavier end will swing to a point just below the original height of initial high point, to 'X' As you can see, this is more than sufficient for the mass to return to the base of the incline, whether it is designed to stop it in the track on the upswing or on the downswing. And you are perfectly correct. Whatever gets the mass back into the track at the low point is a mechanical function. This is the 'Flapper.' It will demonstrate CM, but it has a flaw in my view. It must be set in the first instance, and any torque which would stop it would also dictate it be reset. In my view, 'Continuous Motion is merely continuous instability.' In order for any machine to operate in a manner in which torque can stop it, and then it restart on its own, the entire system must be in a continuous state of instability. In other words, it can be stopped to allow some resistive force to function and do work; but when that resistive back torque, so to speak, go below the motive torque of the machine, it must resume motion. This can only occur if, when it was stopped, it was in a state of instability under normal torque. The Hamster Cage is a more expensive version, but you can stop it with resistive torque, but because the hamster cannot find stability at a lower apex, it must always be in such a position as to cause imbalance, instability in the cage. There are several othe techniques to achieve the same effect. If you take the hamster cage off the axle and put it on a track, it will roll around a track, giving you your precious horizontal circumnavigation, and without inclines, a flat track. I had hoped most of you scientists and engineers would figure this all out, but it seems to be the 'inclination' to simply say it cannot be done. This indicates, also, that in my present condition, it is a waste of what time I have left to remain. Regards, Pat [With that closing sentence Pat disappeared from Cyberspace, to not be bothered by the guardians of status quo any more...] -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. http://www.uCOS-II.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 17:39:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA21425; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:38:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:38:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199904070036.TAA10195@mercury.shreve.net> From: "Robert H. Calloway" To: Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:25:43 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_L7GA2.0.gE5.Sag2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hold on Rod..and everyone else. Now, I will back up my magnetic hamster cage motor with cash! I will pay the parts expenses to replicate this motor up to 150.00 for 3 seperate people who will honestly give this motor a try. This motor works on gravity and magnetic forces. This motor can be seen at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/calloway.html Email me with your sincere desire to replicate this motor, and I will choose 3 people to build it. These 3 people will recieve 150.00 each after sending me copies of reciepts showing they bought parts to build the motor. How can you lose? I'm paying you to replicate it through parts. Reports will be sent to the list showing their results. After all, the worst that could happen is you would wind up with some good magnets at no cost! As for Rod's wheel, I just cannot see it working. A wheel will throw you many curves, (no pun intended) as it will always balance itself. There has to be extra forces to make it work. But, I hope that it will. Any takers?? Regards, Robert H. Calloway. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 17:51:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26144; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:50:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:50:59 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:45:02 -1000 Subject: Re: Self-charging caps From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904061803.SM00285@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"v9lzY2.0.PO6.olg2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Kyle - >I'm going to be getting some LN2 shortly, would you like me to immerse a >large value cap in it to test for charging effects? The dewar is not >steel, but aluminum, so it wouldn't shield EM fields, but still, it >might be interesting...it wouldn't be wasting LN2, as I only need a >small amount. What is left over would be discarded uselessly. If I go >aead with it, what would you like me to measure? What Joe said sounds sort of tricky, but could be interesting too. First a warning: if you use electrolytics, as they warm back up after the experiment, toss them out in the backyard or something before they do; trapped LN2 inside there coming back up to vapor and pressure might cause them to blow up. LN2 is very fluid and gets in everywhere, through the slightest permeability, crack, or seam. I had a cheapsky thermos bottle get LN2 in through the outer seams... ka-POW! But as to measurements while inside the LN2, I don't know how practical this will be for you, the measurements I'm thinking of need to go over a period of 6 or 12 hours or more. Just take millivolts across and through large resistors (so as not to discharge the cap) and mark down the time. Check about every half hour. Then graph delta temperature against delta time (I simply use current versus previous data points for the new output graph point, like "temp2-temp1/time2-time1", but other weighted methods over several points might be used). Also note outside or room temperature for the same times you take voltage readings. Make the same kind of delta/delta (first derivative of temperature) graph of just the outside temperature. Now compare the two output graphs: what you should see is the anomalous tracking of the outside temperature by the capacitor voltage charge curve while it was immersed in a fairly constant temperature bath. All you really need is a constant temperature container for the cap. I doubt it has to be cryogenic, in fact I'm sure it doesn't. Even an oven can be used at some elevated temperature as long as it's really constant. My next trial of this idea will probably be in a cooler full of water as a thermal mass to help keep the temperature fairly constant over a 12 hour or so period. Another fairly handy place where the daily temperture tends to be very constant just about anywhere you go is a few feet underground. A site under a shade tree ought to do the trick. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 17:51:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26007; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:50:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:50:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:48:13 -0400 Subject: Re: From Russia with Love Message-ID: <19990406.204814.168.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-75,77-78 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Tingley Resent-Message-ID: <"2uWWg2.0.CM6.blg2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I remember Mr. Randi. He was famous not because he made things not happen, but because he could make things happen. Remember Uri Geller "bending spoons with his mind" until Mr. Randi exposed his fraud by show he could do it too utilizing a simple parlor trick. Dave On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:59:01 -0500 "Joe Portman" writes: >Somebody is definitely a party-pooper.... >=============================== > >---------- >> From: Charlie Hodgson >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: From Russia with Love >> Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 12:54 PM >> >> Dennis C. Lee said >> > >> > At 07:33 AM 4/4/99 -0800, you wrote: >> > >Archaeology - New Energy >> > > >> > >A famous skeptic, James Randi, tested eleven well-known dowsers >in >> > >Australia in 1980. Under the ground there were ten water pipes >and at >> > >any time during the test, water could randomly flow through one >of >them. >> > >Although the dowsers had confidently predicted a high rate of >success, >> > >the actual results were surprisingly low and it may well have >been a >> > coincidence. >> > >> > I surmise that, James Randi brings such a huge amount of negative >black >> > energy blobs (falun gong web search) attached to his EV, his >presence >> > (attitude & behavior) adversely affects the lifeforce of the test >subjects >> > thereby affecting dowsing results negatively. Falun Gong teaches >that >good >> > deeds will add white positive energy to one's EV. Accordingly bad >deeds >will >> > earn one a corresponding black blob. Is it possible to detect >differences in >> > energy types with a dowsing rod? >> >> >> This too has been reported by Arbams and de la Warr in regards >> to Radionics (another form of dowsing). The 'negative energy' >> doen't neccessarily have to do with beliefs either; the author >> of 'Report on Radionics', a 'believer', could not be in the >> same room when certain tests were performed, he affected the >> outcome. >> >> On a similar topic, are you familiar with the work of Robert >> Jahn at the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research? >> http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/ >> >> They have found, with statistical significance, that certain >> individuals can affect the outcome of supposedly random >> events. It's no news to me: I can roll dice or pick needed >> cards blindly, until such time that I realize I'm doing it. >> >> Charlie >> > > =================================================== dave.tingley@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/3992/dt.html The heart of the wise inclines to the right, the heart of the fool inclines to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 18:02:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00536; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:01:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:01:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199904070101.UAA07769@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: From Russia with Love Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:59:22 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9sXgE2.0.A8.pvg2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Golly, guys, I understood, but the grammatical way it was put brought out my facetious side..I couldn't resist. You have my apology.....Joe Portman =================== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: From Russia with Love > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 5:43 PM > > At 03:06 PM 4/6/99 -0500, you wrote: > >A metal dowser rod will detect definite differences in energy types. > >For example, use 2 rods, one in each hand. Hold 1 in front of an x-ray > >machine, touch the other to a 70,000 volt power line, and the diff will > >manifest itself immediately. > >Joe Portman...... > > > > Oh no, sounds like a threat to me. BTW, do you remember what winter was like > 30 or so years ago? I remember snow on the ground for weeks and temperatures > in the 30s for that time. Now, winter storms are half snow and half rain in > this area. The corresponding increase in the average global temperature is > about 0.2 - 0.3 degrees C. It seems like a big climate change to me for such > a small average temperature increase. I wonder what it would be like when > the average global temperature increases another fraction of a degree over > the next year or two? What's to stop it from increasing anyways? > > Not to mention the PBS NOVA show 'Warnings From The Ice' summary, which > stated the following: > > There is evidence that an average global temperature threshold exists where > once exceeded, causes a climate trigger which drasticly changes weather > conditions on a planetary scale. > > Earlier in the same NOVA show they presented data from Greenland icecore > analysis. They found that climate changes are abrupt and can occur in as > little as one or two years. They were referring to ice age conditions. If > that happens, where will food come from? > > So if you must, go ahead and send your hitman. I'll find Jehovah in the > after life and ask him to come back with me to help 'take care' of all who > are responsible. ;) > > > Dennis > > (Sorry about the signature Bill, but Mr. Portman obviously didn't see it > yet. I hope Mr. Portman has the attention span to understand what is said.) > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Starfire > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html > > Unified Field Art > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG > > Tall Ships > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > Concentric Tori > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG > > Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! > http://www.artbellchatclub.com > > REPORT of the COMMISSION ON PROTECTING AND REDUCING GOVERNMENT SECRECY 1997 > SENATE DOCUMENT 105-2 > http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/index.html > ________________________________________ > > When I am working on a problem, > I never think about beauty. > I only think of how to solve the problem. > But when I have finished, > if the solution is not beautiful, > I know it is wrong. > > -R. Buckminster Fuller- > ________________________________________ > > 'G' defines 'objective art': > > "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in > it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows > and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one > impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of > course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical > certainty, produce one and the same impression. > > "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on > people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive > from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. > > - p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky - > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > "Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the > term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral > and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the > ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in > the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or > unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having > in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the > natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to > to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot > perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower > tones; and must be part of an organized whole." > > - p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes - > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect > our country's interests. Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men > trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the > powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages. Every > individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come > under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC, > whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the > person to be terminated. If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it. In this > manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths. > Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since > he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone > else for many years. When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be > introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will > accompany the one who is to introduce it. This power will far transcend > that of any man-made organization that would oppose it. It is needless to > state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the > author. A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great > mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA. Every hit man > sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident". > It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once > was and all of its best hit men are long gone. Prior to Reagan's > inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big > trouble. One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?). > The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of > the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the > patient". It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the > run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men. > A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely > to be highly unstable emotionally. The above mentioned former associate of the > author had an experience that confirmed this. An apartment just above one in > which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. > As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their > scrutiny is thoroughly bugged. For the more "important" cases there is a > direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters. Unknown to the CIA > at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection. One > evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the > fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be > monitoring. His reaction was complete panic. He started to call > headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began > sobbing. The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters. > This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by > CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated. > Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time. > > quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343) > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html > > Sec. 4.2. General Restrictions on Access. > > (b) Classified information shall remain under the control of the originating > agency or its successor in function. An agency shall not disclose information > originally classified by another agency without its authorization. An > official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified > information from the agency's control. > > (e) Consistent with law, directives, and regulation, an agency head or senior > agency official shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated > information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that > collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified > information have controls that: > > (2) ensure the integrity of the information. > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html > > Sec. 5.7. Sanctions. > > (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight > Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives may > have occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to > the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be > taken. > > (b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, > licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate > sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently: > > (1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this > order or predecessor orders; > > (2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this > order or any implementing directive; > > (3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of > this order; > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > > Executive Order 12958 - http://www.spb.gov/html/12958.html > > Sec. 3.2. Authority for Declassification. > > (a) Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the > standards for classification under this order. > > (b) It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification > requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional > cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the > public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases the > information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be > referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will > determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in > disclosure outweighs the damage to national security that might reasonably > be expected from disclosure. > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > >From "What's New?" at http://www.physicsweb.org > > Antarctic glaciers feel the heat > > [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West > Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to > satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the > glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to > Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in > California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is > theoretically unstable and that the retreat could > become irreversible. Many believe that such an event > would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot > cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a > short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have > implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the > entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). > > Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 > and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 > and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns > that are sensitive to small vertical > movements. These patterns provide information on the > velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay > - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which > ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the > water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine > Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other > large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this > was being caused by an influx of warm water from the > Southern Pacific Ocean. > > Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 > km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay > each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is > replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates > that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data > does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, > water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of > centuries. > > > > > Global warming confirmed from > space > > [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of > the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and > ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for > years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality > of global warming. Now, however, calculations by > Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing > Systems in California have shown that small decays in > the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy > (Nature 394 661). > > Previously satellite measurements have > suggested that the atmosphere was > cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while > ground-based instruments showed an > increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar > satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The > thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent > on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a > maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper > atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand > outwards, which increases the drag experienced by > satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the > orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic > and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to > decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. > > They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit > (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature > profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By > developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were > able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the > instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin > per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new > figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate > models and explains why the satellites had seen increased > cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar > activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. > > > > > Humans are the cause of climate > change > > [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the > relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and > solar activity to global warming appears to have been > resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin > Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological > temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with > results from two leading computer models. They found > that the best fit to the data occurred when this > century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to > have been caused mainly by mankind's output of > greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). > > The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the > data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the > Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 > C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and > sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team > believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on > the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two > possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse > gases and changes in the sun's output. > > Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer > models four times, each time with a different set of > parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in > which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years > and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the > second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be > affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but > greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no > solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally > the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising > levels of greenhouse gases. > > They first found that there was wide discrepancies between > the output of both computer models and the experimental > data in the first data set. This indicated that some > mechanism was increasing the global temperature this > century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely > responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would > have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than > realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer > concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review > Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming > experiment), the only model that matched both simulation > and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong > greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. > > According to Wigley: "These results provide another > important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, > strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been > a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, > they provide additional evidence that the models used to > make projections of future climate change are realistic." > ____________________________________________________________________________ ____ > > http://www.bitlaw.com/source/35usc/183.html > U.S. Patent Act - Patent Laws > Title 35 United States Code Section 183, Right to compensation > > An applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal representatives, whose > patent is withheld as herein provided, shall have the right, beginning at > the date the applicant is notified that, except for such order, his > application is otherwise in condition for allowance, or February 1, 1952, > whichever is later, and ending six years after a patent is issued thereon, > to apply to the head of any department or agency who caused the order to be > issued for compensation for the damage caused by the order of secrecy and/or > for the use of the invention by the Government, resulting from his > disclosure. The right to compensation for use shall begin on the date of the > first use of the invention by the Government. The head of the department or > agency is authorized, upon the presentation of a claim, to enter into an > agreement with the applicant, his successors, assigns, or legal > representatives, in full settlement for the damage and/or use. This > settlement agreement shall be conclusive for all purposes not withstanding > any other provision of law to the contrary. If full settlement of the claim > cannot be effected, the head of the > department or agency may award and pay to such applicant, his successors, > assigns, or legal representatives, a sum not exceeding 75 per centum of the > sum which the head of the department or agency considers just compensation > for the damage and/or use. A claimant may bring suit against the United > States in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal > Claims] or in the District Court of the United States for the district in > which such claimant is a resident for an amount which when added to the > award shall constitute just compensation for the damage and/or use of the > invention by the Government. The owner of any patent issued upon an > application that was subject to a secrecy order issued pursuant to section > 181 of this title, who did not apply for compensation as above provided, > shall have the right, after the date of issuance of such patent, to bring > suit in the United States Claims Court [United States Court of Federal > Claims] for just compensation for the > damage caused by reason of the order of secrecy and/or use by the Government > of the invention resulting from his disclosure. The right to compensation > for use shall begin on the date of the first use of the invention by the > Government. In a suit under the provisions of this section the United States > may avail itself of all defenses it may plead in an action under section > 1498 of title 28. This section > shall not confer a right of action on anyone or his successors, assigns, or > legal representatives who, while in the full-time employment or service of > the United States, discovered, invented, or developed the invention on which > the claim is based. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ______ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 18:02:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00685; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:02:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:02:20 -0700 Message-ID: <19990407010228.12931.rocketmail@web105.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:02:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wayne Decker Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"SaXHo1.0.cA.Swg2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Robert! EXCELLENT, you are a pioneer, willing to back up a duplication by not one but three others...amazing and I must laud and praise you for this approach. Mostly because although it doesn't run continuously, you show how incredibly simple it is to build and that will spur others to try it....great approach! I could not find anything in there about the thing being self-running but I LOVE YOUR PAGE...very well done, with very clear photos! Couldn't help but think about Pat Harris's TOMI and if a hybrid of these two might just work. --- "Robert H. Calloway" wrote: > Hold on Rod..and everyone else. Now, I will back up > my magnetic hamster > cage motor with cash! > I will pay the parts expenses to replicate this > motor up to 150.00 for 3 > seperate people who will honestly > give this motor a try. This motor works on gravity > and magnetic forces. > This motor can be seen at > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/calloway.html > Email > me with your sincere > desire to replicate this motor, and I will choose 3 > people to build it. > These 3 people will recieve 150.00 > each after sending me copies of reciepts showing > they bought parts to build > the motor. How can you lose? > I'm paying you to replicate it through parts. > Reports will be sent to the > list showing their results. After all, > the worst that could happen is you would wind up > with some good magnets at > no cost! As for Rod's > wheel, I just cannot see it working. A wheel will > throw you many curves, > (no pun intended) as it will > always balance itself. There has to be extra forces > to make it work. But, I > hope that it will. Any takers?? > Regards, Robert H. Calloway. > > > === ================================= Please respond to jdecker@keelynet.com as I am writing from my work email of jwdatwork@yahoo.com.........thanks! ================================= _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 18:03:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01572; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:03:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:03:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199904070103.UAA13096@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism)tounconventional wisdom Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:01:09 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bQE1y2.0.NO.Txg2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I was being silly.......my apology.....Joe Portman ==================================== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: Recipient list suppressed > Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism)tounconventional wisdom > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 4:24 PM > > At 03:12 PM 4/6/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I doubt it...... > >=========== > > > OK, let's see if we can test your theory. To all willing to participate, > please read the following passage. Reply to this message with the amount of > time you spent thinking about the following along with what you conclude > from reading the passage. No peeking at other responses before sending your > answer. > > Regards; > Dennis > > > > > > > Three of the major observations of this report establishes the > following: > > (1) Since doubt is considered a legitimate function within > intellectual processes, the role of those who doubt is given > more legitimacy than those who do not doubt. Were this not so > then the meaning of doubt would become vague. > > (2) When doubt is superimposed on direct human > experiencing, then the doubt assumes a priority because of its > perceived legitimacy. The superimposition then results in a > subtle shift of focus away from examining the direct human > experiencing and reinstalls the focus within the contexts of the > various intellectualisms that have become involved. > > (3) The history of intellectualisms demonstrates (a) that they > have relatively short terms of social fashionability, and (b) that > they tend to be elitist in nature because the larger populations > either do not, or cannot, share in them. > > Combining these three observations results in a fourth: that doubt > is relative to social enclaves and is thus only transitory against > larger issues that remain permanent within the direct experiential > thresholds of our species. > > Reducing these four observations to a possibly crude level, > skeptics and debunkers come and go --- but the experiencing > thresholds of the species remain the same. The experiencing > thresholds are therefore perpetual. Skepticism that advocates > doubt regarding something perpetual is relevant only to the > transitory intellectual boundaries within which it has arisen. > > As an apt illustration of the above, Albert Einstein introduced his > special theory of relativity in 1905 while he was still a student > and working in the patent office in Switzerland. The skeptical > responses regarding the theory, and him as a scientist and man, > were not only noisy but exceedingly --voluminous.-- > > By 1925, historians appraised that the Einstein "debate" had > accumulated the largest printed paper volume ever. > > When the special theory was proven correct between 1927 and > 1929, it was shown that relativity was perpetual --- naturally > existing and true. The skeptical and debunking responses were > shown as transitory, however ardent and voluminous they had > been. None of the names of Einstein's skeptics are remembered. > And this is the ignominious fate of most skeptics --- because the > times and tides of discovery march on and forget they existed. > > The verb "debunk" means "to expose the sham of falseness of > something." Debunking is therefore a valuable function and > always has been --- in that certain specimens of our species like to > engineer sham and falseness in order to benefit from them. > > Implicit in the term, however, is the distinction between (1) > exposing --after the fact of examination, and (2) accusing --before > the fact. In this double sense, the term can take on Machiavellian > efficiency. > > "Machiavellianism" refers to Machiavelli's political theory that > politics is amoral and that any means however unscrupulous can > justifiably be used in achieving political power or purposes. > > The introduction of Machiavellianism into skepticism and > debunking runs counter to their original ethical function and sets > up lachrymose contexts so labyrinthine that very few can > negotiate them. Indeed, Machiavellianism can only be effective > provided the labyrinthine contexts cannot be unravelled. > > As but one example of Machiavellian debunking, though, I refer > the truly interested to the paper entitled "Science Versus > Showmanship: A History of the Randi Hoax" by Michael A. > Thalbourne just published in The Journal of the American > Society for Psychical Research (Oct. 1995, Vol.89, No. 4). > > --Resistance-- to such research --before-- the facts of the > superpowers can be ascertained is therefore puzzling. > > The only possible explanation must involve not discoverable facts > which could speak for themselves but --motives and agendas.-- > > Most of us recognize that this is the usual case regarding most > human confusions --- assuming that mere stupidity or lack of > knowledge are not involved as the first instance. But the > introduction of motives and agendas further complicates this > particular situation already lamentably labyrinthine in its overall > character. > > The etymological history of the term "skepticism" shows that it > has undergone several definition formats and social applications > since it was first coined in ancient Greece --- down until today > when it is almost exclusively taken as referring to someone > opposed to the "paranormal" and anything resembling them. > > During the Renaissance period, when the schism between science > and religion started up, skepticism was largely taken as referring > to "doubt concerning basic religious principles" such as > immortality, providence, revelation, the existence of the soul, etc. > This is to say that --skepticism-- was then used almost as a > synonym for anti-religion on behalf of sequestering the evolving > sciences from it. > > The ethical, and even logical goal of the true skeptic is to resolve > doubt by identifying facts, not to reinforce doubt in the absence of > discovered facts --- and certainly not to underwrite Machiavellian > debunking tactics to prevent the needed research. > > True skepticism does not --begin-- by being anti- anything. The > processes of open consideration and examination (i.e., research) > will ultimately establish whether something exists or not. > > There is hardly no other way via which doubt, belief, or > confusions between them can be resolved on behalf of acquiring > increases in knowledge. And this is especially true as regards the > true extent of human sentiency --- for sentient beings have an > inalienable bio-mind right to know of the true extent of their > sentiency. > > If such a skeptic is utilizing the conventional definitions of the > modern mainstream sciences and philosophies --which have > neither considered nor researched the unconventional, then such a > skeptic is utilizing nothing at all except hearsay or prejudice > based on it. Clearly those who --have-- attempted to research the > unconventional know more about them than those who never have > made the attempt --- just as conventional modern scientists and > philosophers have not. > > Here is the basis for a pogrom. A "pogrom" is defined as "an > organized massacre of helpless people." Such a pogrom regarding > "sensitives" took place during the Inquisitions of the Middle > Ages. Some historians estimate the high body count at 9 million > over a 300-year period. Ridicule and defamation during modern > times of sensitives and researchers of the unconventional is a kind of > pogrom, especially when supported in the mainstream media. > > It is interesting indeed why in our scientific times there should be > such a pogrom that victimizes our species unconventional views > with its marvelous spectrum of sentiency. It may be that > someone somewhere doesn't want that marvelous spectrum to be > identified and DEVELOPED. > > *From a paper produced by Ingo Swann for the Intelligence > Community (aka the CIA) on Social Resistance to Psi. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 18:18:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11077; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:18:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:18:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199904070117.UAA29156@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:15:52 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hjcnU3.0.-i2.A9h2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I made 2 independent statements. Both are true. I said nothing about being scared off or giving up. If an existing patent is close enough to what you have in mind, the examiner will later dis-allow it. It is impossible to see the details of an accepted application, because at that point the patent office makes the info top secret, until the patent is granted at a later date. Strange but true. Human minds, even exceptional ones, are much alike, and the probabilities for many working to solve the same problem is high. While it's true that everyone thinks differently, 2+2= 4 in the end. A patent must be novel, useful and non-obvious. Patent attorneys do not give you advice on how to interpret the results of a search. They let you do that, hoping your desire to succeed will overpower your good judgement, and wind up making more money from you. Some....I said some...will withhold a critical old patent from the search results they provide you, so they can make a lot more money from you. Later, the Patent Office examiner will find it, and dis-allow your patent. So choose your attorney carefully. Joe Portman ============ ---------- > From: atg0317 > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 4:06 PM > > From: Joe Portman > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > > > >If you have a good idea that is useful in today's times, then there are at > >least 10 other people in the US working on it, and who knows how many in > >world. A patent search is always prudent before spending a lot of time and > >money. > >The voice of experience...duh...Joe Portman > >==================================== > From: Joe Portman > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > > > >If you have a good idea that is useful in today's times, then there are at > >least 10 other people in the US working on it, and who knows how many in > >world. > > So does that mean that 9 should stop and move on to something else ? So what > if 10,000 were working on the same thing, does that mean all will succeed ? > > It's not likely that all <10> or so will develop the same thing in the same > way, one or maybe two will stand out from the others and be the choice. One > should never be scared or back off from something just because someone else > may be working on it. Gee! if this were the case football would not exist as > there are two many on a team trying to achieve the goal. > > > > A patent search is always prudent before spending a lot of time and > >money. > > This only helps if an application or patent is already granted and *NOT* > suppressed. You will not find daily reports of what's going on in every > garage in the word. Even so what the hay, first to get there has the > privilege of being the one to first pay the lawyers to fend off the *I HAD > IT FIRST* group. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 18:20:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11971; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:19:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:19:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199904070119.UAA29324@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: An Easter Gift Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:17:22 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H8U29.0.nw2.YAh2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Honestly, thanks for the additional info.......Joe Portman =========================================== ---------- > From: Joe Portman > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: An Easter Gift > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 3:00 PM > > velly intelesting > ============ > > ---------- > > From: Dennis C. Lee > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: An Easter Gift > > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 1:43 PM > > > > At 03:27 PM 4/4/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >Termites dispose of, each year, all dead trees and plants of the world. > > >This has gone on for all time and amounts to thousands of times more > gases > > >than man's burning. What is hurting the most is the destruction by man > of > > >the forests and biosphere which convert all this back to good air. > Carbon > > >dioxide is most responsible for retaining heat. Were it not for this, > the > > >earth would cool down much faster. > > > > > > A good Free Energy device will cool the environment to generate power. > Man > > made CO2 is increasing global levels of the gas. This is increasing the > > vapor content of the atmosphere. Increased vapor content of the > atmosphere > > affects the climate adversely. It maybe quicker to use appropriate Free > > Energy devices to fix the problem than planting (and waiting for them to > > grow) enough trees to do same. > > > > > > > > Regards; > > Dennis > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 18:48:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA21764; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:47:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:47:39 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990407015355.01621e44@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 21:53:55 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: From Russia with Love Resent-Message-ID: <"ue5Nm2.0.zJ5.xah2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 08:48 PM 4/6/99 -0400, you wrote: >I remember Mr. Randi. He was famous not because he made things not >happen, but because he could make things happen. Remember Uri Geller >"bending spoons with his mind" until Mr. Randi exposed his fraud by show >he could do it too utilizing a simple parlor trick. I saw two video segments showing Geller and Randi bending spoons on a Tom Snyder show. I looked as closely as I could and I believe the two methods were not the same. There was also the segment that showed Geller holding a spoon by the handle vertically in one hand and rub one side of the handle just below the dished part with the index finger of the other hand. The spoon bent where he was rubbing it by sort of falling over as it melted. I haven't seen Randi come up with a parlor trick to exactly replicate the 'index finger rubbing one side - one hand holding spoon - spoon flops over bent' bending method. Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 21:15:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17059; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:14:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:14:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990406195743.1ed71db6@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:57:43 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange In-Reply-To: <199904070036.TAA10195@mercury.shreve.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TL3S1.0.SA4.kkj2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 07:25 PM 4/6/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hold on Rod..and everyone else. Now, I will back up my magnetic hamster >cage motor with cash! How many "running" and "chaser" magnets are there? Thanks, -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 21:50:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30108; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:50:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:50:04 -0700 Message-ID: <018801be80b2$a0eeef60$3816a098@edk> From: "Edward Kauffmann" To: Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:53:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"R6oL3.0.LM7.xFk2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Rob, If you haven't got the three people you need yet, I'd be interested. Thanks, Ed -----Original Message----- From: Robert H. Calloway To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 8:52 PM Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange >Hold on Rod..and everyone else. Now, I will back up my magnetic hamster >cage motor with cash! >I will pay the parts expenses to replicate this motor up to 150.00 for 3 >seperate people who will honestly >give this motor a try. This motor works on gravity and magnetic forces. >This motor can be seen at >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/calloway.html Email >me with your sincere >desire to replicate this motor, and I will choose 3 people to build it. >These 3 people will recieve 150.00 >each after sending me copies of reciepts showing they bought parts to build >the motor. How can you lose? >I'm paying you to replicate it through parts. Reports will be sent to the >list showing their results. After all, >the worst that could happen is you would wind up with some good magnets at >no cost! As for Rod's >wheel, I just cannot see it working. A wheel will throw you many curves, >(no pun intended) as it will >always balance itself. There has to be extra forces to make it work. But, I >hope that it will. Any takers?? >Regards, Robert H. Calloway. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 6 23:41:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA18033; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:40:30 -0700 (PDT) From: RBCorn2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 02:33:41 EDT Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: RBCorn2@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"3LSiK.0.cP4.Stl2t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Knowledge is only as strong as the imagination! If we all held stand fast to the 'real' world Who would: drive, fly, be communicating via wires and hoses...... etc.... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 01:30:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA12581; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 01:29:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 01:29:37 -0700 Message-ID: <370B17FC.2997E81@harti.com> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:31:56 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy Subject: Chris Kuelzopw doing interesting Newman experiments ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jGaLq2.0.U43.mTn2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://members.home.net/ckuelzow/ -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 06:26:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15864; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:25:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:25:29 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01be80fa$2595b4a0$189efea9@y9g6r3> From: "atg0317" To: Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:25:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"fKRs23.0.jt3.9pr2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com From: Joe Portman To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel >I made 2 independent statements. Both are true. I said nothing about being >scared off or giving up. Yes! This is true, although anyone unsure of his/her position or theory (assuming it has gone this far) can be scared off by such statements. This often takes place from self funding (individual) and lack of support from one or more peers which should have foundation to make such statements. >If an existing patent is close enough to what you >have in mind, the examiner will later dis-allow it. It is impossible to see >the details of an accepted application, because at that point the patent >office makes the info top secret, until the patent is granted at a later >date. Strange but true. Human minds, even exceptional ones, are much alike, >and the probabilities for many working to solve the same problem is high. >While it's true that everyone thinks differently, 2+2= 4 in the end. I agree again, yet my belief is in a universal knowledge base from which we all can draw information. This would account for a person coming up with an idea for which he/she does not have even a basic framework of support knowledge, or the ability to even understand the idea when it is first realized. Yet the end result or purpose is present firmly in the mind. It is not uncommon to solve problems in this way. Further I do not believe in accident discovery, rather this is a result of sub or universal knowledge manifistation. >A patent must be novel, useful and non-obvious. > Patent attorneys do not give you advice on how to interpret the results >of a search. They let you do that, hoping your desire to succeed will >overpower your good judgement, and wind up making more money from you. >Some....I said some...will withhold a critical old patent from the search >results they provide you, so they can make a lot more money from you. >Later, the Patent Office examiner will find it, and dis-allow your patent. >So choose your attorney carefully. Joe, you are a man with faith I must admit. Reading some of you postings to the list indicates a caution (business approach), yet you appear to feel the patent process has some magic and is in some way securing a developers right. If I have not mis-understood what you said then you have yet to be stung big time. My grandfather was the original inventor of the magnet cabinet catch, the twist locking AC extension cord, the Duplex outlet box for dry wall so they did not need fastening to a stud, not to linger on the others. The poor man died broke and broken. The Duplex box was fully patented, but they were not allowed to manufacture as the large box compines told the steel cpmpanies not to sell steel to him. In short a patent is a joke. It present NO! guarentee, it only opens a giant host of new problems. Hey I'd rather steal your patent, manufacture it and let you sue me (if you could), because if I had the money to manufacture and you did not, I would end up making more than you on your patent. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 07:18:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30351; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:17:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:17:15 -0700 Message-ID: <033901be8101$11d25520$541a0fcb@gsawyer> Reply-To: "Glenville T. Sawyer" From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" To: "dwenbert" , Subject: Re: Tesla Antenna Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:32:57 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"sgTxp1.0.8Q7.hZs2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Glenville T. Sawyer - South Australia Theatre, Concert Lighting, Special Effects, Props. & more ! Embedded Control systems for Theatrical & other Applications http://gsawyer.mtx.net/ -----Original Message----- From: dwenbert To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 06:43 Subject: Tesla Antenna >I need to locate some information on the passive electrical collector/charge >accumulator that Nicola Tesla designed. As I understand it, it involves a >large antenna which is sunk into the earth, but insulated from ground; it >self-polarizes between the atmosphere and the earth, and a large voltage This MAY be totally irrelevant, but there again... About 15 years or so ago an associate and I constructed a "scaled down" - Er.. Um.. "Antenna" - this was based upon a design that was described in basic terms in one of Bruce Cathie's books ( N.Z Pilot and UFO researcher ). AFAIR the originals were observed in a large Orchard (somewhere - why is it ALWAYS - "somewhere" ) in the U.S, these "antennae" - unsure just how many were in use, apparently prevented trees within the confines of the particular orchard from freezing over, whereas similar trees in an adjacent orchard suffered frost effects. There was a central pole, some 30 feet in height, at the top of the pole was a circular insulating disk, drilled with seven holes, towards the ground end was another identical disk, wires were run up the pole (thru the insulators) and parallel to the pole. At the top the wires extended out a ways from the pole and pointed back to the ground - on an angle (unknown / forgotten - but I theeenk 30-40 degrees from the vertical), the lower or ground end of the wires travelled a short distance away from the pole/insulator, and extended out some 30 feet buried just below the surface, at the end of these "ground" wires they were wrapped around small Alnico (AFAIK) magnets, the wires then came up out of the ground and pointed back towards their "mate" at the top of the pole. The scale version that we built was around 3 feet high only, I remember taking voltage measurements between each of the wires at both the top and bottom of the pole, measuring between either adjacent or opposite pairs, and also to ground, we used an old (low sensitivity) 20K/Volt moving coil meter, and were able to detect some voltage above 1.00 Volts between the nodes. Due to the lack of meter sensitivity and the fact that the nearest major source of R.F energy (absorption effects etc) was well over 40 miles away, we were surprised to read such a figure, YES there may have been some "Point contact" rectification going on, but WHY did this effect not occur when the magnets were removed from the grounded wires ? The observed voltages varied on a daily or sometimes hourly rate, and at times we observed decreases between some of the nodes or between a node and physical ground. The original Antennae conveniently matched in dimensions (well nearly) the projected "grid figures" as promulgated by Bruce Cathie. O.k well that is about all I remember from back then, I had a look in my once extensive "UFO" book Library but "Harmonic 33", "Harmonic 695" and his later book "Harmonic 288" were no longer there, probably went out on loan and never returned - no mystery there, happens to me all the time ;-( I hope that this might trigger either memories, or even someone that might have seen something similar in their travels, I wanted to build a couple of full size test range units, but unfortunately a number of factors made this not possible at the time. Best regards, Glenville. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 07:18:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30375; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:17:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:17:17 -0700 Message-ID: <033a01be8101$170f9480$541a0fcb@gsawyer> Reply-To: "Glenville T. Sawyer" From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" To: Subject: Re: Amateur Radio on 180meter Band Using Non-Hertzian Waves. Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:38:44 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02E2_01BE814F.C6B36E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"5CaBX2.0.WQ7.iZs2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02E2_01BE814F.C6B36E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Glenville T. Sawyer - South Australia Theatre, Concert Lighting, Special Effects, Props. & more ! Embedded Control systems for Theatrical & other Applications http://gsawyer.mtx.net/ -----Original Message----- From: felis catus To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 09:03 Subject: Amateur Radio on 180meter Band Using Non-Hertzian Waves. =20 =20 I also have conducted experiments with "underground" antenna = systems, on a number of frequencies - varying from the Khz to High Mhz regions, and = basically successful, however I believe that the original request was to try and extract power = from the P.D between the Earth and the Normal atmospheric P.D that is very evident ( Hey = string up an insulated length of wire - ANY frequency, does not need to be resonant, but = INSULATED and as long as you can make it - then measure the P.D between one end of = the wire and Ground - the "static" voltage can reach very high values ). =20 O.k my $0.02 is now fully spent :-) =20 Glenville. ------=_NextPart_000_02E2_01BE814F.C6B36E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Glenville T. Sawyer  = -   =20 South Australia
Theatre, Concert Lighting, Special Effects, Props. = & more=20 !
Embedded Control systems for Theatrical & other =20 Applications
http://gsawyer.mtx.net/
=
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 felis catus <felis@frontiernet.net>
To:=20 freenrg-l@eskimo.com = <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
D= ate:=20 Monday, April 05, 1999 09:03
Subject: Amateur Radio on = 180meter Band Using Non-Hertzian Waves.

 I also have conducted = experiments with=20 "underground" antenna systems, on a number of
frequencies - varying from the = Khz to High=20 Mhz regions, and basically successful, however
I believe that the original = request was to=20 try and extract power from the P.D between the
Earth and the Normal atmospheric = P.D that is=20 very evident ( Hey string up an insulated
length of wire - ANY frequency, = does not=20 need to be resonant, but INSULATED and
as long as you can make it - = then measure=20 the P.D between one end of the wire
and Ground - the = "static" voltage=20 can reach very high values ).
 
 O.k my $0.02 is now fully=20 spent   <g>  :-)
 
   = Glenville.
 
------=_NextPart_000_02E2_01BE814F.C6B36E40-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 07:39:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA04820; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:37:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:37:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199904071437.JAA10481@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:35:31 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PlZgU.0.DB1.vss2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You are correct...a patent is worthless until challenged in court. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: atg0317 > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 8:25 AM > > From: Joe Portman > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 8:21 PM > Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel > > > >I made 2 independent statements. Both are true. I said nothing about being > >scared off or giving up. > > Yes! This is true, although anyone unsure of his/her position or theory > (assuming it has gone this far) can be scared off by such statements. This > often takes place from self funding (individual) and lack of support from > one or more peers which should have foundation to make such statements. > > >If an existing patent is close enough to what you > >have in mind, the examiner will later dis-allow it. It is impossible to see > >the details of an accepted application, because at that point the patent > >office makes the info top secret, until the patent is granted at a later > >date. Strange but true. Human minds, even exceptional ones, are much alike, > >and the probabilities for many working to solve the same problem is high. > >While it's true that everyone thinks differently, 2+2= 4 in the end. > > I agree again, yet my belief is in a universal knowledge base from which we > all can draw information. This would account for a person coming up with an > idea for which he/she does not have even a basic framework of support > knowledge, or the ability to even understand the idea when it is first > realized. Yet the end result or purpose is present firmly in the mind. It is > not uncommon to solve problems in this way. Further I do not believe in > accident discovery, rather this is a result of sub or universal knowledge > manifistation. > > >A patent must be novel, useful and non-obvious. > > Patent attorneys do not give you advice on how to interpret the results > >of a search. They let you do that, hoping your desire to succeed will > >overpower your good judgement, and wind up making more money from you. > >Some....I said some...will withhold a critical old patent from the search > >results they provide you, so they can make a lot more money from you. > >Later, the Patent Office examiner will find it, and dis-allow your patent. > >So choose your attorney carefully. > > Joe, you are a man with faith I must admit. Reading some of you postings to > the list indicates a caution (business approach), yet you appear to feel the > patent process has some magic and is in some way securing a developers > right. If I have not mis-understood what you said then you have yet to be > stung big time. > > My grandfather was the original inventor of the magnet cabinet catch, the > twist locking AC extension cord, the Duplex outlet box for dry wall so they > did not need fastening to a stud, not to linger on the others. The poor man > died broke and broken. The Duplex box was fully patented, but they were not > allowed to manufacture as the large box compines told the steel cpmpanies > not to sell steel to him. > > In short a patent is a joke. It present NO! guarentee, it only opens a giant > host of new problems. > > Hey I'd rather steal your patent, manufacture it and let you sue me (if you > could), because if I had the money to manufacture and you did not, I would > end up making more than you on your patent. > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 09:21:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA01434; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:20:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:20:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:25:12 +0200 Message-Id: <199904071625.SAA06588@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: Self-charging caps Resent-Message-ID: <"xe6l4.0.FM.ZNu2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 14:09 06.04.1999 -0700, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Rick Monteverde wrote: > > I'm still very suspicious of capacitors. They charge themselves up > even in a temperature controlled oven or in a very well shielded chamber. If > I didn't know better (and I *don't*!) I'd say they were tapping variations > in the dielectric constant of the space within them. In the direction of the message I agree. However, probably it is not the variation of the dielectric constant but the variation of the electrical field itself which causes the effect. It is an analog electric effect comparable to the particle number fluctuations in a thermodynamic system. These effects become macroscopically visible especially in the neighborhood of critical points. As mentioned already in a post some days ago there exist models. As a consequence not said in the article) these models can explain self-charging effects. See P. Reimann, R. Kawai, C. van den Broeck and P.Haenggi Europhysics Letters 45 (5) ,pp. 545-551 They calculate qualitatively general model systems of Brownian particles which are subjected to two noise sources as energy sources. One noise source is thermal, the other they do not specify, but it can be thought that the quantummechanically founded noise of the electric field (see E.G. Harris A pedestrian approach to quantum field theory Wiley 1972 ) can be used which rises with the field strength. Their model reproduces negative hysteresis and negative current. Even if Haenggi (Universittaet Augsburg Theoretische Physik URL see http://www.uni-augsburg.de and seek further) does not accept that his model violates second law (pers. communication in seminar at FU-Berlin Dec.1998) it does it because every isothermal positive electric working area violates second law see http://www.overunity.de/2ndlaw/2ndlaw.htm or http://www.overunity.de/bauer/index.html. His model is a prototype of "irreversible process mechanism in the other direction". It is clear that there exists still some distance between the theory and the application proposed here but I think the distance could be made shorter with effort and time. Sincerely Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 11:57:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20841; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:56:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:56:45 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:55:59 EDT Subject: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Trevmaniac@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"6b0863.0.Y55.ifw2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all, I need to talk to somebody about this stuff, and this newsgroup seems to be just the ticket! I'd like to hear your opinions on the above topic. I built an Adam's type machine over a year ago, but not understanding the physics, I never got to over-unity. More recently I've been reading up on Bearden's theories with respect to 'regauging of the magnetic scalar potential' for radial drive coils, and the use of G-field radial generator coils, and it seems to me that all I need do is bump up the speed ( the voltage) and slap on a few more generator coils, and I'll be in business (in a manner of speaking). My question is, has anyone built or experimented with any of these devices? Are the Bedini devices over-unity as claimed? Why has the Adams machine been discredited? The most amazing claims are with regard to the Takahashi motor. Has anyone built one of these? According to the Sunday Times newspaper (a reputable English paper) dated Dec 10, 1995, a 15hp Takahashi motor was tested in a Sciex scooter in England, with claims of doing more than 500 miles on just four ordinary 12-volt car batteries. It had a top speed of 50 mph. By my calculations, the power drain is at least 15x750 = 11250 Watts for at least 10 hours. Or 2344 Amp-hours needed for a 48 volt system. 234 amp-hours is unlikely. But 2344 amp-hours???? How can results like this go totally unnoticed? Is this world totally screwed up, or is it me??? Trevor From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 13:37:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23277; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:35:57 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:34:15 -1000 Subject: Re: Self-charging caps From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904071652.SM00168@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"Kpcdn2.0.ch5.j6y2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dieter - > In the direction of the message I agree. However, > probably it is not the variation of the dielectric > constant but the variation of the electrical field > itself which causes the effect. You'd think it would be something like electric fields, but some of the experiments have been done in very well shielded chambers. And it's not quite so much that the things just charge themselves, it's the variations in the charge rate that are really interesting and seem to connect to things as remotely situated as lunar cycles, etc. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 15:16:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16444; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:15:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:15:20 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <4f78f608.243d325b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:12:43 EDT Subject: Related to: Re: Self-charging caps To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"7Hzf21.0.r04.uZz2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/7/99 9:28:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, WDBAUER@vossnet.de writes: << > I'm still very suspicious of capacitors. They charge themselves up > even in a temperature controlled oven or in a very well shielded chamber. If > I didn't know better (and I *don't*!) I'd say they were tapping variations > in the dielectric constant of the space within them. In the direction of the message I agree. However, probably it is not the variation of the dielectric constant but the variation of the electrical field itself which causes the effect. It is an analog electric effect comparable to the particle number fluctuations in a thermodynamic system. These effects become macroscopically visible especially in the neighborhood of critical points. >> Hello all, This whole topic brings up some experiments I have done -- and repeated -- what I observed clearly occurs but I am still not sure what to make of it. I took a current probe, high speed, low current capacity. It is a device you run a wire through and it has an output voltage of 1 volt for every amp of current through the wire (transient current). This goes to a high speed oscilloscope and allows you determine the current in the wire. Now you connect (in an ordinary lab environment) one end of the wire which goes through the current probe to some small metal object like a drill bit (size matters, what the metal is does not); then touch the other end of the wire to a similiar metal object. What you observe: every time you *make* the connection to the second metal object, if it is separated by the last "making" by at least a second or two, there is a pulse of current through the wire. The current size is milliamps lasting for nanoseconds. The polarity of the pulses are pretty much random, as you would expect. The amplitude varies from pulse to pulse. If you go through the calculations this corresponds to charges of hundreds of thousands to many millions of electrons or ions building up on small metal objects in a few seconds. The voltages the metal objects charge to is only on the order of volts. So that's it --- to me the concept of a small metal object collecting from or contributing to the air, millions of charges in a second or two *all the time* , seems unlikely. (I can't find any other credible explanation for the experimental results). But if so surely there must be some way we could take advantage of it. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 16:59:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA21814; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:58:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:58:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199904072357.SAA14385@mercury.shreve.net> From: "Robert H. Calloway" To: Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:36:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-6mIC1.0.hK5.w4_2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave, there are 2 of each. One set inside the wheel and one set on top of the wheel. Regards, Robert H. Calloway "Double your money by folding it inhalf and putting it back in your pocket" Source: My Dad... ---------- > From: Dave Dameron > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:57 PM > > At 07:25 PM 4/6/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hold on Rod..and everyone else. Now, I will back up my magnetic hamster > >cage motor with cash! > How many "running" and "chaser" magnets are there? > Thanks, > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 17:00:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA21833; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:58:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:58:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199904072357.SAA14414@mercury.shreve.net> From: "Robert H. Calloway" To: Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:46:40 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n9D3g3.0.1L5.x4_2t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ok Edward, Give it your best and send me copies of your expenses. Report your results to the list or me. If you have any questions, let me know. If you see a way of improving it, please do so! Snail mail address is: Rt 2 Box 252-E Deberry, Texas 75639. 150.00 dollars will be sent to you upon these terms. Regards, Robert H. Calloway "Double your money by folding it inhalf and putting it back in your pocket" Source: My Dad... ---------- > From: Edward Kauffmann > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 11:53 PM > > Hi Rob, > > If you haven't got the three people you need yet, I'd be interested. > > Thanks, > > Ed > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert H. Calloway > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 8:52 PM > Subject: Re: Over balanced wheel- challange > > > >Hold on Rod..and everyone else. Now, I will back up my magnetic hamster > >cage motor with cash! > >I will pay the parts expenses to replicate this motor up to 150.00 for 3 > >seperate people who will honestly > >give this motor a try. This motor works on gravity and magnetic forces. > >This motor can be seen at > >http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/calloway.html Email > >me with your sincere > >desire to replicate this motor, and I will choose 3 people to build it. > >These 3 people will recieve 150.00 > >each after sending me copies of reciepts showing they bought parts to build > >the motor. How can you lose? > >I'm paying you to replicate it through parts. Reports will be sent to the > >list showing their results. After all, > >the worst that could happen is you would wind up with some good magnets at > >no cost! As for Rod's > >wheel, I just cannot see it working. A wheel will throw you many curves, > >(no pun intended) as it will > >always balance itself. There has to be extra forces to make it work. But, I > >hope that it will. Any takers?? > >Regards, Robert H. Calloway. > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 18:17:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14751; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:16:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:16:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990407165330.204f12f0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:53:30 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Related to: Re: Self-charging caps In-Reply-To: <4f78f608.243d325b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UJlS71.0.Kc3._D03t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ken and all, At 06:12 PM 4/7/99 EDT, you wrote: > This whole topic brings up some experiments I have done -- and repeated >-- what I observed clearly occurs but I am still not sure what to make of it. > I took a current probe, high speed, low current capacity. It is a >device you run a wire through and it has an output voltage of 1 volt for >every amp of current through the wire (transient current). This goes to a >high speed oscilloscope and allows you determine the current in the wire. >Now you connect (in an ordinary lab environment) one end of the wire which >goes through the current probe to some small metal object like a drill bit >(size matters, what the metal is does not); then touch the other end of the >wire to a similiar metal object. What you observe: every time you *make* >the connection to the second metal object, if it is separated by the last >"making" by at least a second or two, there is a pulse of current through the >wire. Do the pulses increase on average consistently if the metal object "loading" the far end of the wire is increased? Did you figure out an estimated capacitance of an object to extimate the voltage? Do you still see the pulses if the far end of the wire is grounded? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 18:56:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA26154; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:55:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:55:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:55:29 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "electricity" In-Reply-To: <002001be7ebc$5853f040$19684fc6@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vn185.0.ZO6.Oo03t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, mrand@access wrote: > Have you thought of marketing any of the electrical devices for schools and > the general public? I do have one product out there so far: http://www.amasci.com/viselect/viselect.html Unfortunately for $-making, most of those projects are inexpensive build-it-yourself affairs. My website is slowly becoming a textbook, but I suppose that eventually I'll have to get off my butt and create a cellulose-based version. :) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 19:04:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA30355; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:04:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:04:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:04:34 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? In-Reply-To: <19990405062104359.AAA287@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"joOG12.0.CQ7.sw03t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Michael T Huffman wrote: > > All of this is just idle speculation, of course, and it is obviously > well over my head. Was the plane that you wrote about, Rick, in flight when > this occurred? Was the BL observed to follow the plane for a while before > entering it? That would seem to violate a lot of Physics, right there, eh? > Happy Headscratching! Don't miss the collection of BL stories that people have typed into my website: http://www.halcyon.com/sciclub/cgi-pvt/unusual/bl.html One or two of them report that the BL was filled with something akin to moving electric arcs. What the heck were THOSE? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 19:44:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12071; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:44:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:44:08 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: Trevmaniac@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices Message-Id: <923539398.9190.482@excite.com> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 19:43:18 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.187 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"9_hA81.0.Wy2.uV13t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:55:59 EDT, Trevmaniac@aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > > I need to talk to somebody about this stuff, and this newsgroup seems to be > just the ticket! I'd like to hear your opinions on the above topic. > > I built an Adam's type machine over a year ago, but not understanding the > physics, I never got to over-unity. More recently I've been reading up on > Bearden's theories with respect to 'regauging of the magnetic scalar > potential' for radial drive coils, and the use of G-field radial generator > coils, and it seems to me that all I need do is bump up the speed ( the > voltage) and slap on a few more generator coils, and I'll be in business (in > a manner of speaking). > > My question is, has anyone built or experimented with any of these devices? > Are the Bedini devices over-unity as claimed? Why has the Adams machine been > discredited? The most amazing claims are with regard to the Takahashi motor. > Has anyone built one of these? > > According to the Sunday Times newspaper (a reputable English paper) dated Dec > 10, 1995, a 15hp Takahashi motor was tested in a Sciex scooter in England, > with claims of doing more than 500 miles on just four ordinary 12-volt car > batteries. It had a top speed of 50 mph. By my calculations, the power > drain is at least 15x750 = 11250 Watts for at least 10 hours. Or 2344 > Amp-hours needed for a 48 volt system. 234 amp-hours is unlikely. But 2344 > amp-hours???? > > How can results like this go totally unnoticed? Is this world totally > screwed up, or is it me??? > > Trevor > Dont worry so much< people in the US have discounted the claims of Beardon overunity claims. Along also the ideas of scalar interferometry. Now many experimentalists do come out and say "I made an experiment and your claims are abscent" This is the total role of science. Judge,Jury and Executioner. Some of us however are born with a predilection to be continually questioning what is told as the consequence of laws and for some unknown reason have an urgent desire to punch holes in the theory. Welcome to the group. Dreams do occur amongst us, and these should not be discounted. You are simply preoccupied with this present dream... Sometimes past incarnations do come into context and in an instant of time one can glimpse the probable future before ones eyes. In that circumstance one realizes that simply viewing this means you had a part in it. Enter the future of things. The over unity ideas have been told not in simplicity, but in complication. Oscillation of energy between electric and magnetic fields is exactly analogous to kinetic and potential energies expressing themselves in time. The sum of these added energies are held to be a constant during any instant of time one chooses to measure them. This is recorded as a law. Within that particular oscillation that law is observed. Relative to that oscillation another one can be made: most importantly not a mirror image or 180 degree reflection, but something more important, a 90 degree oscillation. This is simply another oscillation timed identical to the first, so that when one has a full magnetic field the other has a full electric field. The radio engineers have already heard this explanation in the theory of how things work and when you present it to them they automatically presume they know what you are trying to convey before actually listening to the total difference in spatial circumstances involved. I would call them expert texpert smokers. They dont know the reality you try to convey because they already know it all. So everyone in scalar reseaches automatically assumes everything is dependent on 180 cancellation of magnetic B when in actuallity this is stupid. Radio waves are also spatially dependent on the coils that cause their emanation< and therfore their spatial polarization to a reciever. New kinds of radio waves, while not yet even concieved, can be made by this theory. I do get discouraged over time that what I am speaking of is not readily observed as a new possibility. Perhaps this future I have seen is in error, but meanwhile I am duty bound to see its fruition in accordance with experimentation. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 21:12:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08968; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:12:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:12:16 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <8e84d20b.243d85dc@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:09:00 EDT Subject: Re: Related to: Re: Self-charging caps To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"4-zoM1.0.xB2.Wo23t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/7/99 6:18:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << Hi Ken and all, At 06:12 PM 4/7/99 EDT, you wrote: > This whole topic brings up some experiments I have done -- and repeated >-- what I observed clearly occurs but I am still not sure what to make of it. > I took a current probe, high speed, low current capacity. It is a >device you run a wire through and it has an output voltage of 1 volt for >every amp of current through the wire (transient current). This goes to a >high speed oscilloscope and allows you determine the current in the wire. >Now you connect (in an ordinary lab environment) one end of the wire which >goes through the current probe to some small metal object like a drill bit >(size matters, what the metal is does not); then touch the other end of the >wire to a similiar metal object. What you observe: every time you *make* >the connection to the second metal object, if it is separated by the last >"making" by at least a second or two, there is a pulse of current through the >wire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I used larger objects the pulses tended to be larger, and if either object was small (about a cm or less) the pulses were not large enough to trigger the scope. Yes, I assumed the metal was an equivalent sphere of about 3 cm to calculate the voltage. Yes, and as best I can recall the amplitude was not much different from using another metal object about the same size. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 22:07:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23907; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:06:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:06:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:06:39 +1000 (EST) From: "Fraval / Elliot (ISE)" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Noise In-Reply-To: <6dfec01d.24380230@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Qa8pV1.0.Sr5.bb33t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 PetMagic@aol.com wrote: > > Bob: > Well you've done a great job at categorizing & defining different types of > noise, but neglected to answer the gentlemans initial question, which was > asking about how to MASK certain types of noise to the human ear , i.e., dogs > barking, airpalnes, etc. Do you have any real information on this? Anybody? > > The situation you are describing is harder to eliminate the noise from since it is within the bandwidth that you require and it is not a constant level or patern. The best method for this stuff is to do a Fourier Transform of the sound. This process (in case you are not familiar with it) decomposes a complex waveform (bark) into it's sine wave components, which ca then be cancelled with sine waves 180 degrees out of phase or can be removed before rerecording. Unfortunatey this requirest you do digitise your recording so it can be processed via an FFT (fast or discreete fourier transform) algorithm. Ths is a discreete summation aproximation to the continuous integral you are required to perform to evaluate the FT. Since you now have the recording in the digital domain, decomposed into it's frequency components simply eliminate the frequencies assosciated with the sounds considered to be noise. Ths ma be tricky since you could have certain frequencies common to both noise and signal so by analysing the waveform before and after, and correcting for changes between those points, also using youe ear as the final judge you should be on the way. Hope you have access to FFT hardware :) Elliot From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 7 23:52:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA14122; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:52:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:52:16 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:55:11 -0400 Message-ID: <19990408065511437.AAA300@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"Ht24e1.0.ZS3.V853t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill wrote: >Don't miss the collection of BL stories that people have typed into my >website: > > http://www.halcyon.com/sciclub/cgi-pvt/unusual/bl.html > >One or two of them report that the BL was filled with something akin to >moving electric arcs. What the heck were THOSE? I don't know, Bill, but you know my advice: Don't put them in your mouth until I say it's OK;) -Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 8 03:34:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA29358; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 03:31:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 03:31:39 -0700 Message-ID: <370C8611.28C8F22@harti.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:33:53 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Winterflood , Free Energy Subject: Re: Freaky German Wheel References: <3.0.6.32.19990408110305.009ed9f0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rkQbs1.0.cA7.BM83t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com John Winterflood wrote: > > Hi Stephan, > > Did you notice this post :- > > >From: "Don J. S. Adams" > >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >Subject: Freaky German Wheel > > > >any one 'sprecken die Deutsch'? > > > >http://members.aol.com/wuerthx/ > > Any chance you could take a quick look and provide the group > with a brief summary in English ? - particularly if he claims > that it actually works. Seems he has gone to some considerable > trouble! > > All the best > > John Winterflood Well, I just had another look. Hmm, they say, they have a mechanical converter which converts accelerated masses in the gravity field to about 200 % overunity. He never until now delivered a public demo. I heard from a few friends which have tried to witness a demo, that they did not see anything... Also I heard you had to pay a lot of money to see anything. Well, I just send them an email to ask what they have now and if they are doing public demos soon. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 8 09:02:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18178; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:56:17 +0200 Message-Id: <199904081556.RAA01868@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: Self-charging caps Resent-Message-ID: <"KFahE.0.wR4.38D3t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:34 07.04.1999 -1000, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Dieter - > > > In the direction of the message I agree. However, > > probably it is not the variation of the dielectric > > constant but the variation of the electrical field > > itself which causes the effect. > >You'd think it would be something like electric fields, but some of the >experiments have been done in very well shielded chambers. Such cases are contained in the existing models as well ! Even a ferroelectret without charge contains electric fields because there exist field domains in the bulk which compensate each other. >And it's not quite so much that the things just charge themselves, it's the variations in >the charge rate that are really interesting and seem to connect to things as >remotely situated as lunar cycles, etc, ... and air humidity ?? :-) Or in another words: Does exist there reliable published data ? Similar phenomena are said to exist for the Brown-Biefeld effect. Such effects are not contained in the existing models which I cited. I agree insofar: the match between theory and experiment can not regarded to be 100 % because there are to many still open questions. I prefer to to compare such effects first with more conventional interpretations because otherwise you float totally free and can not design experiments disciminating between the influence of different causes and factors which produce the effect. Sincerely Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 8 14:53:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09400; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904082146.QAA23800@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: tender Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:44:27 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GyE802.0.nI2.kKI3t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey, Don, Have you noticed how tender some people are. If you recite a tidbit, the news seems to hurt. You have to be careful how you state a fact. I try to never ridicule or put down an inventor, as I know how it feels after a near lifetime. At my age, I don't pay any attention to it. But I think we need to tell our younger inventors to ignore little stings, whether they are intentional or not. Stay focused, and analyze any data they receive, even if they don't like it. It boils down to being an elective type person, rather than a reactionary. It's easy to switch, just a little practice. Most people are reactionary, so once you have switched, you find that you are more comfortable in any meeting of minds. As to the OU wheels, these young inventors, whether they succeed or not, will be a lot smarter than the nay sayers who did nothing and learned nothing. Joe Portman =========== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 8 16:42:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18821; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:41:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:41:31 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:31:26 EDT Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Trevmaniac@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"vIzQG.0.wb4.hwJ3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks for the welcome. And thanks for your comments. I hadn't expected such a philosophical reply, but perhaps we do need to start there. I am well aware that I am immersed in the dream called 'over-unity' (some might say 'stuck' in the dream!!!). But it is only 'over-unity' when viewed from the confines of this other dream we call 'the daily world'. If we could expand our world view sufficently, then we might see that 'over-unity' is just another word for negative entropy or negative time. Manipulating the magnetic scalar potential in an electromagnetic cycle may be one way to achieve that process. I have tried to determine the reality, or otherwise, of the Sciex scooter as reported by the Sunday Times, but all leads are dead. I can't seem to track down the Sciex Corporation or Mr Takahashi and his YT magnets. Nor have I found a Michael Laughton of the London University. So this is why I ask again if anyone in freenrg knows anything more about the Takahashi motor or done any work on one. My references are a copy of the Sunday Times article dated 10-12-95 posted to the net http://explorepub.com/articles/beardon/overunity.html http://www.hsv.com/writers/bearden/flash/flash.htm Trevor I live in the Seattle area. My phone number is 425 335 4394 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 8 16:49:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA21429; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:49:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:49:14 -0700 Message-ID: <370D2473.A2E72513@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:49:39 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: tender References: <199904082146.QAA23800@mw1.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_IZYg2.0.kE5.w1K3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hey Joe! Joe Portman wrote: > > Hey, Don, > Have you noticed how tender some people are. yep > If you recite a tidbit, the > news seems to hurt. You have to be careful how you state a fact. I try to > never ridicule or put down an inventor, as I know how it feels after a near > lifetime. At my age, I don't pay any attention to it. But I think we need > to tell our younger inventors to ignore little stings, whether they are > intentional or not. I agree, I've been guilty of being overly crtical myself of others and I've also been supportive. I need to be more balanced in my general views and demeanour. I think that these creative minds need support and whereever and whenever possible critique in a positive venue. However, invariably someone still will proabably take things wrong, we can only to our best as often as possible. The young need to be able to objectively listen to the wisdom of their elders as well, while tempering this input with their own subjective insights. > Stay focused, and analyze any data they receive, even > if they don't like it. yup > It boils down to being an elective type person, > rather than a reactionary. wow, very well said! thats it in a nutshell! > It's easy to switch, just a little practice. > Most people are reactionary, so once you have switched, you find that you > are more comfortable in any meeting of minds. good point and a lesson I am still learning progressively (I hope) > As to the OU wheels, these young inventors, whether they succeed or not, > will be a lot smarter than the nay sayers who did nothing and learned > nothing. again, agreed.... and they need to feel that and realize it for themselves also... its a great personal reward in and of itself. Cheers mon ami! Don > Joe Portman > =========== -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 9 02:28:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA21968; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:27:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:27:50 -0700 Message-ID: <370DC899.C51DEC1D@harti.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 11:30:01 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , daveem m Subject: Re: Ecklin generator References: <6834-370D8629-3886@mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ceRvW2.0.9N5.MWS3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com daveem m wrote: > > I remember some one on this list was in the process of building an > Eckliln generator a few weeks back, I lost your email address, but I > would sure like to hear about your results so far. > Dave Maltz > > Dave's Alternative Energy. Hi, have a look at: http://www.overunity.com/bht/bht.htm -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 9 08:31:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA20722; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:30:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:30:08 -0700 Message-ID: <002601be829e$17afe680$d31b16cb@ppp.lm.net.au> From: "Roger Weichert" To: , Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:01:47 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"VUOOK3.0.h35.0qX3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Welcome and Hullo Trevor I too have built an Adams Motor and spent considerable time, effort and money. Unfortunately while it ran OK as a motor it was nowhere near overunity. I guess I have learnt the hard way, and while I dont want to discorouge you, we simply can not afford to believe everything we read. eg. with the Adams Motor take a closer look at how he advises to measure the input power. Even I, with my limited technical education smelt a rat there, but went blindly on...... Took me a while to wake up. Dont get me wrong, I'm sure there is some wheat amongst the chaff. That's why I'm still here after all this time. (but not with the Adams Motor though) Perhaps you could encorouge fellow list member Bill McMurtry to give a brief rundown on why this is so. He has had a long association with the Adams saga but at least has his feet on the ground. You're right about the Takahashi Motor. Sounds great to me too! But why does nothing appear to have happened since we first heard about it in '95 ? I have also experimented with a couple versions of a Hendershot Gen., TOMI device, including attempting to build a large diam. rotary version, etc. I also have a real interest in Win Lambertson's free energy device amongst other things and will continue to experiment as time permits. Keep looking and keep building. Have fun. Regards, Roger Weichert -----Original Message----- From: Trevmaniac@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, 8 April 1999 4:31 Subject: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices >Hi all, > >I need to talk to somebody about this stuff, and this newsgroup seems to be >just the ticket! I'd like to hear your opinions on the above topic. > >I built an Adam's type machine over a year ago, but not understanding the >physics, I never got to over-unity. More recently I've been reading up on >Bearden's theories with respect to 'regauging of the magnetic scalar >potential' for radial drive coils, and the use of G-field radial generator >coils, and it seems to me that all I need do is bump up the speed ( the >voltage) and slap on a few more generator coils, and I'll be in business (in >a manner of speaking). > >My question is, has anyone built or experimented with any of these devices? >Are the Bedini devices over-unity as claimed? Why has the Adams machine been >discredited? The most amazing claims are with regard to the Takahashi motor. > Has anyone built one of these? > >According to the Sunday Times newspaper (a reputable English paper) dated Dec >10, 1995, a 15hp Takahashi motor was tested in a Sciex scooter in England, >with claims of doing more than 500 miles on just four ordinary 12-volt car >batteries. It had a top speed of 50 mph. By my calculations, the power >drain is at least 15x750 = 11250 Watts for at least 10 hours. Or 2344 >Amp-hours needed for a 48 volt system. 234 amp-hours is unlikely. But 2344 >amp-hours???? > >How can results like this go totally unnoticed? Is this world totally >screwed up, or is it me??? > >Trevor > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 9 12:03:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23551; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:03:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:03:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990409102323.23070f7e@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:23:23 To: Trevmaniac@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MABW1.0.ql5.hxa3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Trevor and all, At 02:55 PM 4/7/99 EDT, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I need to talk to somebody about this stuff, and this newsgroup seems to be >just the ticket! I'd like to hear your opinions on the above topic. > Please look at Jean-Louis' site for many good tests. http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm I also tried a small Bedini type generator about a year ago. After studing the AC output, which was not sinusoidal because the poles were a small portion of the complete revolution, I decided that it was all "conventional". -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 9 15:41:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13657; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:39:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:39:58 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:39:23 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <370f8122.51233157@mail-hub> References: <002601be829e$17afe680$d31b16cb@ppp.lm.net.au> In-Reply-To: <002601be829e$17afe680$d31b16cb@ppp.lm.net.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA13632 Resent-Message-ID: <"A--7t2.0.IL3.z6e3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:01:47 +0930, Roger Weichert wrote: [snip] >You're right about the Takahashi Motor. Sounds great to me too! But why does >nothing appear to have happened since we first heard about it in '95 ? [snip] There was a report, on vortex by Jed Rothwell (I think), that the scooter had been tested out in the desert and only ran 35 miles before stopping. After that all interest died. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 9 20:43:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA00368; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:42:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:42:42 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: <3b86c639.24402271@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:41:37 EDT Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Trevmaniac@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"GXesH2.0.e5.nYi3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/9/99 3:41:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au writes: << There was a report, on vortex by Jed Rothwell (I think), that the scooter had been tested out in the desert and only ran 35 miles before stopping. After that all interest died. >> Well that's very interesting. 35 miles is about all you'd get if there was no regeneration going on. ie if the motor was run at constant speed (the Takahashi motor dosn't have a seperate generator coil). The 500+ mile range was supposedly due to frequent acceleration and deceleration -with more energy being generated in the coasting and electrical braking stage than was needed in the acceleration and steady speed stage. This same effect is reported by both Adams and Bedini. There are lots of different theories around, but a switched reluctance motor/generator in combination with a lead-acid battery appear to have some interesting characteristics. Apologies to the group if this is a regurgitation of an old topic. Trevor From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 9 21:29:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13139; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:29:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:29:17 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:43:38 EDT Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices To: ddameron@earthlink.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Trevmaniac@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"z1hqg.0.4D3.SEj3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/9/99 12:03:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << Please look at Jean-Louis' site for many good tests. http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm I also tried a small Bedini type generator about a year ago. After studing the AC output, which was not sinusoidal because the poles were a small portion of the complete revolution, I decided that it was all "conventional". -Dave >> Thanks for the info on your Bedini project. What RPM did you use? I wonder if efficency is dependant on rotor speed. I am in process of modifying my Adams machine to a Takahashi configuration. It means adding a magnetic ramp, and readjusting the pulse timing. It will be interesting to see if there is any improvement in performance. I've noticed that switched reluctance motors are commercially available now with efficencies quoted at over 90%. I've come across the Jean-Louis site before. He is doing a lot of interesting stuff. Trevor From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 02:54:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA05972; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:53:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:53:56 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990410100049.015ce7cc@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:00:49 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: tender Resent-Message-ID: <"DPcok2.0.9T1.q-n3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 04:44 PM 4/8/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hey, Don, > Have you noticed how tender some people are. If you recite a tidbit, the >news seems to hurt. You have to be careful how you state a fact. I try to >never ridicule or put down an inventor, as I know how it feels after a near >lifetime. At my age, I don't pay any attention to it. But I think we need >to tell our younger inventors to ignore little stings, whether they are >intentional or not. Stay focused, and analyze any data they receive, I'm real good at finding data. I have a wide range of interests though, and I'm having trouble keeping organized files. I thought it silly to spend time with anything less than researching data and literature in a coherent, interconnected knowledge path. I'm not good at organizing when there is a large task involved. I have to find the best spot for an item and I get easily bogged down. It maybe unreasonable to expect my girlfriend to be able to recognize the multitude of papers that accumulates when I get curious and be able to keep track and file all that stuff. I can never find all the research that I know I've done on a subject and it makes me feel discouraged. I feel like I'm running at about 20% efficiency. Seeing yet another weather or climate related news item referenced in the now common superlative degree of severity makes me feel it's already too late to do much that will be of any help. I keep seeing the experience of my landlord converting my building from a government project to a private ownership as similar to the present global warming issue. For over two years I double checked what the landlord and lawyers were doing in regards to the building. All the while I was distributing the info I found to the tenants. I made it well known that we should think twice about signing anything with the landlord. They listened to the lawyer and signed anyways. Now they pay much more rent and I pay the same as before because I didn't sign. Similarly, it seems that no one sees this global warming issue and the weather will get worse and many of us will die no matter what is said or known. I feel that I have a good, if not special, innovative-inventive technological ability. I can't put it to use because the world doesn't seem to want it (not that I could really contribute much at this point). I don't feel secure and it's difficult to see hope in the future. I have to keep going for the greater good but this is no fun and I'm scared. At least I'll be able to say to God that I tried the best I could. I'm also pretty bad at responding if there is no direct question. Just some ramblings if anyone's interested. Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 03:21:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA19800; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:21:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:21:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990410102820.015af208@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:28:20 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Ball Lightning trapped in lightbulb? Resent-Message-ID: <"1rGUR.0.Hr4.rOo3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 07:04 PM 4/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >One or two of them report that the BL was filled with something akin to >moving electric arcs. What the heck were THOSE? Is anyone curious about our Unified Field Art postcard? Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG If anyone asked, I would have said: We were investigating TTBrown asymmetrical electrode phenomenon. The plasma collapsed when the electrodes were scaled up in size. V cut the tuned cones first try by instinct. She also completed the painting months prior to the vacuum belljar plasma experiment. She was pretty lucky to guess this stuff. Go figure. Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 04:24:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA27131; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:23:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:23:41 -0700 Message-ID: <370F186A.DF4503FE@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:22:50 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: tender References: <1.5.4.32.19990410100049.015ce7cc@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T188m3.0.md6.yIp3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey Dennis, as I said to Joe regarding the encouragement of others online here, it is important to encourage each other. > I'm real good at finding data. I have a wide range of interests though, and > I'm having trouble keeping organized files. I thought it silly to spend time > with anything less than researching data and literature in a coherent, > interconnected knowledge path. I think you've expressed the mindset of many others here also. > I'm not good at organizing when there is a > large task involved. I have to find the best spot for an item and I get > easily bogged down. It maybe unreasonable to expect my girlfriend to be able > to recognize the multitude of papers that accumulates when I get curious and > be able to keep track and file all that stuff. I can never find all the > research that I know I've done on a subject and it makes me feel > discouraged. I feel like I'm running at about 20% efficiency. I hear ya... funny that issue does seem to keep popping up in so many different areas I see. It boils down to document management. Not an easy task when you start working with larger and larger sets of documents, groups of documents and sub-groups. Assuming Y2K doesn't completely end the industry that I work primarily in I'm hoping to target a segment of the market by fashioning an automated solution to this, its sort of one of my areas of specialty. I imagine this would fall somehow under the broad category of 'data warehousing', but realistically would be a special brach therein. A suggestion I'd make to help you would be to consider belnding the following dev tools and technologies; XML, SQL and VB. Why? Because you can use these in the following manner; VB - Creation of an easy to operate UI. Pass strings for the searching, archiving, organization, retieval and manipulation of large documentation sets. XML- Use for the automation of componentizing a given doc / article into its respective parts and transiting these to an appropriate standardized doc template. SQL - Store the doc data componets into a massive and robust database. What you should end up with is a real kick a*s tool that lends itself REAL well for any research and archival process. Many of the online 'search' engines take advantage of an SQL back end and they use an HTML front end UI. A good example is when you go into the Keelynet list archive and wish to do a search on a keyword, or words or phrase and then a return of possible hits is made. This setup is relatively standard and also relatively primitive. You can take this sort of solution to a much higher level. I often make a lot of my own software tools when I'm working on my own projects. At some point, if I have the time I plan on making my own private archival system for my own R & D purposes. > Seeing yet another weather or climate related news item referenced in the now common > superlative degree of severity makes me feel it's already too late to do > much that will be of any help. well, you're probably right. However that doesn't mean you still can't have a positive effect on the lives found within your immediate sphere of influence... what else can one expect given the current situation. Frankly I think even being able to do that is a might victory and you should be given credit for that. How many others don't even do that? Another reason why folks like Rod of the Gravity Wheel deserves credit ... he's at least trying! > I keep seeing the experience of my landlord converting my building from a > government project to a private ownership as similar to the present global > warming issue. For over two years I double checked what the landlord and > lawyers were doing in regards to the building. All the while I was > distributing the info I found to the tenants. I made it well known that we > should think twice about signing anything with the landlord. They listened > to the lawyer and signed anyways. Now they pay much more rent and I pay the > same as before because I didn't sign. Similarly, it seems that no one sees > this global warming issue and the weather will get worse and many of us will > die no matter what is said or known. Above is a good example of what sort of influence good and evil can exert on others. I learned a while ago, though its a painfully obvious lesson, that the great evil done in this world cannot be laid at a sinister elite but rather at the feet of the masses who choose to do nothing but pander over their immediate base needs. It is the unmotivated masses that will surely sink this biological earth ship of ours and nothing else comes close. Which is why the discovery of a free energy device is so important... the real issue behind free energy is what it would potentially represent in the mind shifting of the masses, ie freedom. Thats the real reason its suppressed. > I feel that I have a good, if not special, innovative-inventive > technological ability. I can't put it to use because the world doesn't seem > to want it (not that I could really contribute much at this point). well again Dennis, if you're blessed with the ability to help others in a special way all you can be expected to do is your best. No one laid the salvation of mankind at your feet and to think otherwise would make you worry to death. Just do your best and then try to enjoy what little time we've left. Eccl. chp 8 > I don't feel secure and it's difficult to see hope in the future. I'm sure many of us feel the same way. > I have to keep going for the greater good but this is no fun and I'm scared. At least I'll > be able to say to God that I tried the best I could. isn't that all that really matters? I'm sure Noah wasn't thrilled about being sealed up in a giant block of wood while the rest of the planet was obliterated, either. > I'm also pretty bad at responding if there is no direct question. > > Just some ramblings if anyone's interested. they were good observations, don't be so hard on yourself. > > Regards; > Dennis Don -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 05:11:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07176; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:10:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:10:34 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990410121717.015699a4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:17:17 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Are people of any use to the Universe? Resent-Message-ID: <"J9QdA1.0.zl1.u-p3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Do ordinary people serve a purpose to the universe in such a way that it's good to have lots of them around? I amuse myself with the idea that without people, would the universe continue to expand? On a less profound level, I kind of like the fact that we have such a choice and variety of consumer items now. The higher being who wants the pogrom thing probably knows. I'd like to ask this higher being as much (not to mention why the pogrom thing is a good idea). Could someone point him/her out to me? Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 06:21:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA20389; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:20:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:20:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199904101320.IAA23242@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: tender Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:18:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KuPhT2.0.U-4.h0r3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dennis, We are herd type creatures. It is natural and a sign of higher intelligence for you to want to make life better for the entire herd. A healthy herd usually means a healthy individual. Keep on truckin'........ Joe Portman ================= ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: tender > Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 5:00 AM > > At 04:44 PM 4/8/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hey, Don, > > Have you noticed how tender some people are. If you recite a tidbit, the > >news seems to hurt. You have to be careful how you state a fact. I try to > >never ridicule or put down an inventor, as I know how it feels after a near > >lifetime. At my age, I don't pay any attention to it. But I think we need > >to tell our younger inventors to ignore little stings, whether they are > >intentional or not. Stay focused, and analyze any data they receive, > > I'm real good at finding data. I have a wide range of interests though, and > I'm having trouble keeping organized files. I thought it silly to spend time > with anything less than researching data and literature in a coherent, > interconnected knowledge path. I'm not good at organizing when there is a > large task involved. I have to find the best spot for an item and I get > easily bogged down. It maybe unreasonable to expect my girlfriend to be able > to recognize the multitude of papers that accumulates when I get curious and > be able to keep track and file all that stuff. I can never find all the > research that I know I've done on a subject and it makes me feel > discouraged. I feel like I'm running at about 20% efficiency. Seeing yet > another weather or climate related news item referenced in the now common > superlative degree of severity makes me feel it's already too late to do > much that will be of any help. > > I keep seeing the experience of my landlord converting my building from a > government project to a private ownership as similar to the present global > warming issue. For over two years I double checked what the landlord and > lawyers were doing in regards to the building. All the while I was > distributing the info I found to the tenants. I made it well known that we > should think twice about signing anything with the landlord. They listened > to the lawyer and signed anyways. Now they pay much more rent and I pay the > same as before because I didn't sign. Similarly, it seems that no one sees > this global warming issue and the weather will get worse and many of us will > die no matter what is said or known. > > I feel that I have a good, if not special, innovative-inventive > technological ability. I can't put it to use because the world doesn't seem > to want it (not that I could really contribute much at this point). I don't > feel secure and it's difficult to see hope in the future. I have to keep > going for the greater good but this is no fun and I'm scared. At least I'll > be able to say to God that I tried the best I could. > > I'm also pretty bad at responding if there is no direct question. > > Just some ramblings if anyone's interested. > > > Regards; > Dennis > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 11:50:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26786; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:49:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:49:24 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990410081914.23b72bc0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:19:14 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"d38SN.0.RY6.pqv3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Trevor and all, At 04:43 PM 4/9/99 EDT, you wrote: >Thanks for the info on your Bedini project. What RPM did you use? I wonder >if efficency is dependant on rotor speed. I used up to about 1200 rpm. For an electrical output power from zero to 6 watts, the driving motor power increased 9 watts. On the rotor I used 4 Radio Shack ceramic magnets about 1 x 3 x 5 cm. >I am in process of modifying my Adams machine to a Takahashi configuration. >It means adding a magnetic ramp, and readjusting the pulse timing. It will >be interesting to see if there is any improvement in performance. I've >noticed that switched reluctance motors are commercially available now with >efficencies quoted at over 90%. > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 12:50:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07658; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:49:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:49:43 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990410195604.015db17c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:56:04 -0400 To: vortexb-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"e0YFx2.0.Vt1.Mjw3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:29 PM 4/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >***{That's an interesting point, Dennis. Many survivors of the Holocaust >reached the conclusion that there cannot be a God, on the grounds that if >God were to exist, he would not have permitted such an event. On the other >hand, Rabbi Menachem Schneerson believed that pogroms were God's method of >strengthening the Jewish people, by culling out the unfit. The unfit, >presumably, were those Jews who were dumb enough to remain in Germany after >Hitler took power. By the same reasoning, I suppose God is now culling out >dumb Kosovars! (I wonder what he has in store for people who have remained >in America under Clinton. :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** Your answers are always kind of scary Mitchell. Maybe the pogrom phenomenon is God's way of saying that we should never underestimate the level of self annihilating stupidity that is attainable on this planet. The test was probably for those who stood by and watched to get up and do something to help the victims. Anyways, I was considering human psychological and physiological structure in terms of energy fields. The complexity is such that they probably represent very high frequency energy patterns. Compared to inert interstellar objects, life forms probably have a much greater energy density. At the very least, we must be giving the universe texture, therefore greater complexity, therefore increased internal energy pressure? I therefore DOUBT that a higher level being would want anything to happen that might make his backyard shrink or be any less interesting. Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 14:51:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11352; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:51:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:51:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990410215730.015f18f4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:57:30 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism) to unconventional wisdom Resent-Message-ID: <"989WC3.0.8n2.BVy3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 07:06 AM 4/7/99 -0400, you wrote: >Quite the point. But we're not writing about you but of the nature of >social resistance when consensus reality (as a meme) is challenged. I feel the point of this being that doubt (uncertainty seems more appropriate) is a wrong response by society and should be corrected if possible. >[snip] > >> >*From a paper produced by Ingo Swann for the Intelligence >> >Community (aka the CIA) on Social Resistance to Psi. >> >> Let me guess, this is required reading at CIA U. What message will the >> average cadet get from this? Would it be something like: >> >> 1. Doubt is intelligent >> >> 2. Doubters get respect and control of situations. >> >> 3. Let's see... debunk... skepticism... Machiavelli... pogrom... >> >> 4. Someone somewhere who apparently transcends time and space wants this >> POGROM thing... >> >> Conclusion of average CIA wannabe - Gee this must be the recommended and >> approved Modus Operandi when encountering similar situations in the field... >> >> Dennis >> > >Not the point at all. Rather that society acts to protect its memes as if to doubt >in anything that is different. This is the unspoken logic of institutions (church, government, >AMA, American Bar Association, American Society for the Advancement of Science... >whatever... you name it). > >This paper was not prepared for CIA staff or line below administration. >It certainly was not prepared for CIA wannabes. > >It was used as the basis for the CIA admission that they, the Intelligence Community, >was and had long been involved in "psychic" espionage and as a means of publically >discounting the public revelations of former "Stargate" remote viewer David >Morehouse who blew the whistle. The last statement of an entity wanting the pogrom executed intentionally is curious. Why is it there? Unless this entity is in fact known to exist, it is pure speculation. The paper is of such length and complexity, I question whether it was placed there with the intent of giving credibility, and approval, to the pogrom concept for those whose reading skills are of lower levels. Close scrutiny will reveal an innocuous document however. If such an entity does exist, why does he not wished to be identified? >But, hey, I thought "we" were on the same said. I get a little paranoid when >someone starts to polarize on my messages and when my posts to a list are >censored. It causes me to question whether there is some hidden agenda here >on this list relative to censorship of perception. What's here on this list that we're >not to see? > >This does not seem to be the physics of love at all, but the physics of supression. Sorry for giving this impression. I felt strongly that while it maybe true someone, somewhere, doesn't wish unconventional views to be identified and developed, this in no way suggests that such a desire is in anyway a good thing. In fact, given the latest satellite evidence of global warming and its' manmade causes (physicsweb.org - what's new) suppression of such views which will stop or reverse global warming, can be legally challenged under proper review of National Security guidelines. Government officials who propagate such suppression, risk administrative disciplinary action. Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 15:50:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06175; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:50:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:50:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199904102250.RAA00178@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism) tounconventional wisdom Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:48:04 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L7Nd71.0.OW1.dMz3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey, Dennis, Boy, are you catching it !!!! Remember, too, that sometimes the appearance of doubt is really a mask for fear of the unknown...one of man's greatest fears. There are many pros and cons about global warming, and they can be twisted easily into confusion by the spinmasters. Global warming is also partly determined by the number of icebergs that break off the glaciers each year. Right now the rate is about 1/3 less than 20 years ago. Personally, I believe the destruction of the forests and the biosphere (our main source of oxygen replenishment) is a far greater threat than the amount of CO2 that man emits annually. I have opined and I am ready for the usual atomic blast of certain repliers. May God help me !!! Here's a truth for you: "An ignorant conviction is impregnable" Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; vortex-L@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism) tounconventional wisdom > Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 4:57 PM > > At 07:06 AM 4/7/99 -0400, you wrote: > > >Quite the point. But we're not writing about you but of the nature of > >social resistance when consensus reality (as a meme) is challenged. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 16:06:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09229; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:05:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:05:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199904102305.SAA11340@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:03:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UFf1C2.0.6G2.vaz3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hmmm....man is so vain to think that God, who created the entire universe and maybe a million more, has a lot of time to spend worrying about how one of his infinitesimally small experiments is doing. I thank God for making me and I don't ask him for more. He gave me a brain to take care of myself, and he gave me a brother for those times when I cannot. The people of Kosovo are my brothers and they cannot at the moment. If the universe is both orderly and chaotic, then why can't man be brilliantly stupid ?......paradox of one space/time event. Example; Nuclear war between countries is like two men in a bathtub having a handgrenade fight. We build fantastic killing machines in the name of humanity and religion. Brilliant and ? Joe Portman ========== > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: vortexb-l@eskimo.com > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? > Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 2:56 PM> > At 12:29 PM 4/10/99 -0500, you wrote:> > >***{That's an interesting point, Dennis. Many survivors of the Holocaust > >reached the conclusion that there cannot be a God, on the grounds that if > >God were to exist, he would not have permitted such an event. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 16:22:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA12966; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:21:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:21:34 -0700 Message-ID: <370FC0AE.9F28949F@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:20:46 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? References: <199904102305.SAA11340@mw2.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D0k461.0.SA3.zpz3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A really good book that backs up what you are saying is called 'The truth shall set you free' can't recall the authors name, something like Dave Ivers or something. Joe Portman wrote: > > Hmmm....man is so vain to think that God, who created the entire universe > and maybe a million more, has a lot of time to spend worrying about how one > of his infinitesimally small experiments is doing. > I thank God for making me and I don't ask him for more. He gave me a brain > to take care of myself, and he gave me a brother for those times when I > cannot. The people of Kosovo are my brothers and they cannot at the moment. > If the universe is both orderly and chaotic, then why can't man be > brilliantly stupid ?......paradox of one space/time event. > Example; Nuclear war between countries is like two men in a bathtub > having a handgrenade fight. We build fantastic killing machines in the name > of humanity and religion. Brilliant and ? > Joe Portman > ========== > > From: Dennis C. Lee > > To: vortexb-l@eskimo.com > > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? > > Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 2:56 PM> > > At 12:29 PM 4/10/99 -0500, you wrote:> > > >***{That's an interesting point, Dennis. Many survivors of the Holocaust > > >reached the conclusion that there cannot be a God, on the grounds that > if > > >God were to exist, he would not have permitted such an event. -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 16:22:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA12937; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:21:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:21:32 -0700 Message-ID: <370FC0B5.7CDED941@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:20:53 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: PART 2 - Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance, Real Noah, the flood Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? 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--------------667C9B02E1B4740C12568B7C-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 16:24:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA14942; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:24:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:24:12 -0700 Message-ID: <370FC14A.97F87360@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:23:22 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance, Real Noah, the flood References: <199904102305.SAA11340@mw2.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4puS73.0.7f3.Qsz3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'll try this again... didnt seem to go through the first time... see attached file for related topics. sample snip----------------------- > A friend of mine who worked for the NSA related an experiment that >was conducted by NASA. Three scientists lived on the floor of the ocean >for about 1-3 months in a biosphere. When they left they were all >middle aged with graying hair and low libidos. When they returned their >hair was clear of gray, their wrinkles had started to disappear, and >their sex drive was so increased that their wives complaied to NASA >about it. It turns out that certain glands and organs were >"reactivated." One in particular was the gland that lies over the top >of the heart. Blood tests showed unusual hormones. Hormones that are >normally associated with the growth of young children. > If you check the Creation Research Center and look up the url for the >Creation Research Institute you can then find the geologist who >recreated the atmosphere of the flood in a container. I havent checked >for his name yet. Been behind on my page and other projects, but I am >having a pastor friend look into it for me. >What if we take this knowledge and build a "room" that emulates the >atmosphere of the Earth before the flood and sleep in it for 8 hours a >day? What effects might it have? My friend from the NSA said that for >every day spent in there one year was added onto your life until you >maxed out at 1000. >Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 17:02:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28241; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:01:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:01:20 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990411000745.015fa838@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:07:45 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism) tounconventional wisdom Cc: vortex-L@eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA28206 Resent-Message-ID: <"mSPYt2.0.-u6.FP-3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:48 PM 4/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hey, Dennis, > Boy, are you catching it !!!! No problemo, Joe. > Remember, too, that sometimes the appearance of doubt is really a >mask for fear of the unknown...one of man's greatest fears. Agreed, doubt suggests an emotional distrust whereas uncertainty is defined as insufficient information so that the subject cannot be surely known. Doubt is emotional, uncertainty is logic based. > There are many pros and cons about global warming, and they can be >twisted easily into confusion by the spinmasters. Global warming is also >partly determined by the number of icebergs that break off the glaciers >each year. Right now the rate is about 1/3 less than 20 years ago. The references are from www.physicsweb.org previous 'What's New' articles - they have a one week trial membership. BTW. A certain most honored Professor stated that the North Pole icecap is melting twice as fast as the South Pole icecap because most of the powerplants and vehicles are in the Northern Hemisphere. ______________________________________________________________________________ Antarctic glaciers feel the heat [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is theoretically unstable and that the retreat could become irreversible. Many believe that such an event would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549). Rignot used radar data taken between 1992 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns that are sensitive to small vertical movements. These patterns provide information on the velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this was being caused by an influx of warm water from the Southern Pacific Ocean. Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2 km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates >>>>>>>>>> that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet, water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of centuries. _______________________________________________________________________________ > Personally, I believe the destruction of the forests and the biosphere >(our main source of oxygen replenishment) is a far greater threat than the >amount of CO2 that man emits annually. Agreed, deforestation is a major problem also contributing to CO2 level increases, however: _______________________________________________________________________________ Global warming confirmed from space [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality of global warming. Now, however, calculations by Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing Systems in California have shown that small decays in >>>>>>>>>> the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy (Nature 394 661). Previously satellite measurements have suggested that the atmosphere was cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while ground-based instruments showed an increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand outwards, which increases the drag experienced by satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period. They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature >>>>>>>>>> profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate models and explains why the satellites had seen increased cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. Humans are the cause of climate change [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and solar activity to global warming appears to have been resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with results from two leading computer models. They found that the best fit to the data occurred when this century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to >>>>>>>>>> have been caused mainly by mankind's output of greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676). The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse gases and changes in the sun's output. Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer models four times, each time with a different set of parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising levels of greenhouse gases. They first found that there was wide discrepancies between the output of both computer models and the experimental data in the first data set. This indicated that some mechanism was increasing the global temperature this century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming >>>>>>>>>> experiment), the only model that matched both simulation and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating. According to Wigley: "These results provide another important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change, >>>>>>>>>> strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore, they provide additional evidence that the models used to make projections of future climate change are realistic." ________________________________________________________________________________ > I have opined and I am ready for the usual atomic blast of certain >repliers. May God help me !!! > Here's a truth for you: "An ignorant conviction is impregnable" I hope the above data will weaken the impregnability. If anyone finds more recent evidence to the contrary, please let us know. Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 17:03:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29075; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:03:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:03:09 -0700 Message-ID: <370FCA71.436A388F@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:02:25 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gene Marlin , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance, Real Noah, the flood References: <008601be83aa$eb0c8da0$345895d1@premio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a1DtL2.0.C67.zQ-3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gene, see below; Gene Marlin wrote: > > - Creation Research Center and look up the url for the > >>Creation Research Institute you can then find the geologist who > >>recreated the atmosphere of the flood in a container > > Is this mailing list for scientific free energy experiments or Christian > "science"? If it is for the latter, let me know so I can unsub now. as taken from Bill Beaty's Policy site @ http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html snip---------- FREENRG-L is for the discussion of experiments and devices which exhibit anomalous energy production (or consumption!), or which violate currently-accepted physics theory. This includes: * "Overunity" * Electrogravity & inertia violation * Scalar Electromagnetism * Psi phenomena and Paranormal * Relativity violation My entry DEFINITELY qualifies under the paranormal heading AND the description of a possible way of duplicating some very interesting physics effects that could affect the way we age and how the earth may have devolved over the past. How on earth you could scan the article I sent and totally miss this and focus in on one small aspect of it that you didn't like is beyond me. Thats like going to a party where the majority of folks are having a blast except for one couple way over in the corner thats arguing... you walk in, see them fighting and decide its a crappy party and leave. You had to have quickly scanned the article I sent, ignored the bulk of it and picked out something you felt you could stretch to a configuration you had some personal distaste for. The comments in that article were NOT made by me, but rather an individual who carried on a dialogue with a series of researchers who all came from philosophical backgrounds, he was simply presenting information, and instead of the groupd going on some sort of witch hunt against each other they simply discussed, sans philosophies, the scientific properties and possibilities of such a project. Obviously your comment is related to an axe you have to grind and not to what I posted. May I suggest that you grind it on someone else? Have a nice day. Don -- The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper. -- Eden Phillpotts --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 17:06:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA30549; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:05:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:05:49 -0700 Message-ID: <370FCB16.B156C4DB@telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:05:10 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance, Real Noah, the flood References: <199904102305.SAA11340@mw2.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cphb73.0.ET7.TT-3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com nuts, the first file I sent that contained a bunch of great info on some of the experimentation on this stuff doesnt seem to make it to the list and its so small!? Anyone know what the file attachement limit / ceiling is? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 17:09:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA31769; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:07:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:07:50 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:12:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199904110012.CAA01908@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: JNaudin509@aol.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Mini Romag test great ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"JmRWU.0.Em7.MV-3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi JL, your new Mini-Romag test from 8th of April is just great ! If it is true, that you can just move a magnet 90 degrees "wrong" polarised through a coil and it still generates a usable positive induction pulse, which can be used without any drag by powering a load via a diode, I guess you have "positively violated" the Lenz law ! Then one could build generators, which when a load is applied, do not need any more input power. This way you can make the output power bigger than the input power and thus have an overunity electric generator ! How did you turn your rotor ? with a DC motor ? Did your motor input NOT increase, when you shorted out the positive induction pulse via the diode ? If that is true, you have found the simplest and most genious effect how to violate the Lenz law and how to build overunity generators ! Just turn the magnet to coil position by 90 degrees ! :) Just Too simple to be invented already 100 years ago ! :) Good luck ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 17:52:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08781; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:52:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:52:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990411005838.015d7c80@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:58:38 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? Cc: svpvril@egroups.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Ys2eS3.0.z82.o8_3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 06:03 PM 4/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hmmm....man is so vain to think that God, who created the entire universe >and maybe a million more, has a lot of time to spend worrying about how one >of his infinitesimally small experiments is doing. > I thank God for making me and I don't ask him for more. He gave me a brain >to take care of myself, and he gave me a brother for those times when I >cannot. The people of Kosovo are my brothers and they cannot at the moment. > If the universe is both orderly and chaotic, then why can't man be >brilliantly stupid ?......paradox of one space/time event. > Example; Nuclear war between countries is like two men in a bathtub >having a handgrenade fight. We build fantastic killing machines in the name >of humanity and religion. Brilliant and ? I have faith that man has purpose and is good (if made aware enough - eg. you can't fool the space time fabric, it never forgets, and it will catch up to you). Those who want to believe that man is intrinsically evil and deserves to die please raise your hand. If the world population could be made aware of the circumstances we will likely face in the near future, preparation for extreme environment conditions will replace acts of war. Besides, the idea I brought up was: Anyways, I was considering human psychological and physiological structure in terms of energy fields. The complexity is such that they probably represent very high frequency energy patterns. Compared to inert interstellar objects, life forms probably have a much greater energy density. At the very least, we must be giving the universe texture, therefore greater complexity, therefore increased internal energy pressure? I therefore DOUBT that a higher level being would want anything to happen that might make his backyard shrink or be any less interesting. It almost seems as if you want or need the nature and soul of man to be unworthy and insignificant Joe. Is there some reason for you to require this perception to be true in your mind Joe? Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 18:05:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13526; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:05:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:05:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199904110105.UAA11050@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism)tounconventional wisdom Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:03:13 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QCmES.0.DJ3.JL_3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dennis, Very good on your last reply. Man's greatest discoveries come each time he invents a more sensitive instrument. The satellite discrepancies should be viewed with joy, if they are true, as now we can monitor with confidence, the previous lack of which has caused most of the back and forth opinions among scientific poohbahs...I say this with tenderness, lest we get too pompous. Joe Portman ps; Uncertainty causes us to give ourselves the benefit of the doubt. Hmmmm....I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not sure. ========================================= ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Cc: vortex-L@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism)tounconventional wisdom > Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 7:07 PM > > At 05:48 PM 4/10/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hey, Dennis, > > Boy, are you catching it !!!! > > No problemo, Joe. > > > Remember, too, that sometimes the appearance of doubt is really a > >mask for fear of the unknown...one of man's greatest fears. > > Agreed, doubt suggests an emotional distrust whereas uncertainty is defined > with > results from two leading computer models. They found From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 18:30:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18832; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:29:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:29:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199904110129.UAA20630@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:27:21 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wRyXP.0.9c4.yh_3t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dennis, I believe man is mostly good. I also believe we will spread out into the universe, both as a matter of curiosity and for the preservation of the species. I believe we will someday all unite to face something that will appear to be greater than all of us put together......oh..yes....and we will win. Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Cc: svpvril@egroups.com; vortex-L@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? > Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 7:58 PM > > > I have faith that man has purpose and is good (if made aware enough - eg. > you can't fool the space time fabric, it never forgets, and it will catch up > to . > > It almost seems as if you want or need the nature and soul of man to be > unworthy and insignificant Joe. Is there some reason for you to require this > perception to be true in your mind Joe? > > Regards; > Dennis > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 19:34:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31558; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:33:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:33:54 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:33:08 EDT Subject: Water Pressure To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Grod123456@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Xy5-V2.0.xi7.He04t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Quick question: I found a formula that calculates water pressure: force against object = pi x radius (squared) X height of water(in feet) X density of water (is the density of water at sea level about .42 lbs per square inch per foot?) I need to confirm the pounds per square inch... Thankyou From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 23:34:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA11589; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:34:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:34:20 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: <3c61c0ba.24419c35@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:33:25 EDT Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Trevmaniac@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"2CTP41.0.-q2.i944t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/10/99 11:51:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << >Thanks for the info on your Bedini project. What RPM did you use? I wonder >if efficency is dependant on rotor speed. I used up to about 1200 rpm. For an electrical output power from zero to 6 watts, the driving motor power increased 9 watts. On the rotor I used 4 Radio Shack ceramic magnets about 1 x 3 x 5 cm. >I am in process of modifying my Adams machine to a Takahashi configuration. >It means adding a magnetic ramp, and readjusting the pulse timing. It will >be interesting to see if there is any improvement in performance. I've >noticed that switched reluctance motors are commercially available now with >efficencies quoted at over 90%. >> My Adam's pulsed motor coil is not over-unity. The radial generator coils do not appear to be over-unity. My magnetic ramp (Takahashi concept) modification does not appear to have any effect on motor performance. This leaves the Bearden/Bedini explaination as the most plausable. Namely that the ions in a lead-acid battery interact directly with the space vacuum electrostatic potential, and by striking it with a voltage pulse, it can be made to resonate and release charged pairs. Bedini demonstrated this phenomina with his Tesla Switch. I wonder if anyone else has built a Tesla Switch? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 10 23:43:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA13678; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:42:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:42:50 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:41:43 EDT Subject: Tesla Switches To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Trevmaniac@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"3dzVX.0.aL3.gH44t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Has anyone built a Tesla Switch like the one Bedini built and demonstrated in the mid 80's? It was used for charging batteries. If so, I would be interested to know what switching frequencies were used, and how it performed. Trevor From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 01:06:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA24139; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:06:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:06:04 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:03:50 -1000 Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance, Real Noah, the flood From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904110422.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"8dg2f1.0.4v5.iV54t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Don - > Obviously your comment is related to an axe you > have to grind and not to what I posted. Sheesh, no kidding. Creation Science does have a very specific religious agenda, so they will filter data strictly towards that end. But in their opposition to the status quo, they do have a tendency to find and document some of the holes in science generally and archaeology in particular which are big enough to drive a camel through. And by the way all you heretics out there, the story of the great flood appears in most if not all old cultures, and was probably as old to the people in biblical times as biblical times are to us. When I read that note, I was reminded of the Epic of Gilgamesh where Upanawhatsisname - the really old guy about a thousand years or so old - reveals the secret of longevity: a tree that grows UNDERWATER. There's lots of interesting historical stuff in the Bible too if some of you aren't too wracked by self doubt, fear, and loathing to have a look. Freenrg themes too. I think King Solomon had artificial lighting in the temple, for instance. Something about retaining some of the "old knowledge"? And I'm sure I don't even have to mention that Ark; it made all those Nazi's faces melt out on that island! (Woops, wrong movie.) And how about those giants born of the visitors from the sky and the daughters of men? Big people with distinctive characteristics, like 12 fingers and 12 toes. There's also stories in there about how the Semite tribes tried to commit genocide against these people and were rather proud of their apparent success at it, too. Ever see the odd skulls coming out of South America? I guess some got away. Or maybe the forensic guys should be looking for jawbone-of-an-ass marks? Anyway, in the E. of G. they had to travel east across a shallow sea to get the the distant land where the sun was up when it was midnight back home (Sumeria). I think they lost the tree sample in a storm on the way back. Foo, eh? Never forget to back up your data! I'd better stop now before somebody thinks I'm preaching Christianity or Anti-Semitism or Neo-Sumerian Shamanist Techno-Taoism or something and gets in a big hussy fit and signs off Freenrg list. We wouldn't want that. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 02:39:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA25165; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:39:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:39:43 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <849d70a1.2441c7b4@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 05:39:00 EDT Subject: A working EHD Flying Saucer... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: billb@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Rmwlq2.0.696.Vt64t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear All, If you want to see a working EHD Flying Saucer... Look at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdfsv1.htm You will find also all diagrams, pictures, and video for reproducing the experiment yourself. I think that this will interest you. Ps: This is NOT an April joke... Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 03:18:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA23810; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:18:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:18:05 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:22:36 +0200 Message-Id: <199904111022.MAA13455@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Cc: billb@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"GOO-b1.0.xp5.TR74t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:39 11.04.99 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >Dear All, > >If you want to see a working EHD Flying Saucer... > >Look at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdfsv1.htm > >You will find also all diagrams, pictures, and video for reproducing the >experiment yourself. > >I think that this will interest you. > >Ps: This is NOT an April joke... > >Best Regards, > >Jean-Louis Naudin >Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com >Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > Hi, could this thing also just work on ion wind ? Just would be good to test this in a vacuum chamber, to see, if the ion wind does not do the propulsion ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 03:24:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA25247; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:23:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:23:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990411122248.00974350@mail.bahnhof.se> X-Sender: david@mail.bahnhof.se X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:22:48 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: David Jonsson Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... In-Reply-To: <849d70a1.2441c7b4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5FfhO2.0.KA6.uW74t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:39 1999-04-11 EDT, you wrote: >Dear All, > >If you want to see a working EHD Flying Saucer... > >Look at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdfsv1.htm > >You will find also all diagrams, pictures, and video for reproducing the >experiment yourself. Higly interesting. What we need is experiments. I like to remind you about the book Electrogravitics Systems edited by Tom Valone. It has several chapters by different authors. TT Brown patents are there. There is one chapter about B2 where it is said it uses 20 MV for propulsion. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0964107007/qid%3D923669537/002-558547 6-6673256 Can you increase your voltage? I suppose UFOs symmetrical shape is because the need to rotate in order to gyrostabilize their unstable thrust? David From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 04:23:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA31222; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:23:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:23:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199904111123.VAA10060@lebunka.ion.com.au> X-Authentication-Warning: lebunka.ion.com.au: ts2m01.the-gc.net [203.55.161.101] didn't use HELO protocol From: "Pop" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:22:26 Subject: Hydrogen Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"c2qN21.0.ld7.gO84t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Someone said they tried to produce hydrogen with electrolysis but couldnt make enough to run a car off...could you give specifics? _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Pop, in an uncontrolled environment Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, prefered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 06:17:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06986; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:16:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:16:54 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:14:19 +0200 Message-ID: <01be841d$35377ee0$2dd81ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MFkQp3.0.3j1.63A4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All Of some interest regarding the above check out Switched Reluctance Motor With Full Accomutation -Aspden US4975608 Apparently an improved Adams motor, never been built but based on Aspden's detailed knowledge of magnetism. http://www.patents.ibm.com/patlist?icnt=US&patent_number=4904926&x=45&y= 6 Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 07:05:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA13784; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:04:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:04:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3710AF0A.A6D0E904@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:17:47 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mini Romag test great ! References: <199904110012.CAA01908@ns.b.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qdY4v1.0.HN3.1mA4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi JL, > > your new Mini-Romag test from 8th of April > is just great ! > Has anyone actually built this? Do you have performance data? > > If it is true, that you can just move > a magnet 90 degrees "wrong" polarised > through a coil and it still generates > a usable positive induction pulse, > which can be used without any drag by > powering a load via a diode, > I guess you have "positively violated" > the Lenz law ! > Lenz law is known to be "violated" (experimentally) in certain cases. See Graneau's book "Newtonian Electrodynamics" page 188, and Graneau's paper/letter "The Missing Magnetic Force Law" in Galilean Electrodynamics, Vol. 9, No. 2, 1998, pp.35-36. From his book: "While working on the experiment [involving railguns] the authors accidentally placed a ferromagnetic carbon steel rod amature on the rails and observed that it rolled in the wrong direction toward the battery." It may be that Lenz's law is not being violated here but rather, there is another force stronger than the force of Lenz's law which causes the amature to roll in the "wrong" direction. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 07:16:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21744; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:16:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:16:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199904111416.JAA25660@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance,Real Noah, the flood Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:14:20 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KOgnD2.0.bJ5._wA4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey, Rick, Religion is a touchy subject, ain't it ? Even when you are trying to point out the science it sometimes involves.....duh Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: Rick Monteverde > To: freenrg list > Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance,Real Noah, the flood > Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 3:03 AM > > Don - > > > Obviously your comment is related to an axe you > > have to grind and not to what I posted. > > Sheesh, no kidding. Creation Science does have a very specific religious > agenda, so they will filter data strictly towards that end. But in their > opposition to the status quo, they do have a tendency to find and document > some of the holes in science generally and archaeology in particular which > are big enough to drive a camel through. And by the way all you heretics out > there, the story of the great flood appears in most if not all old cultures, > and was probably as old to the people in biblical times as biblical times > are to us. When I read that note, I was reminded of the Epic of Gilgamesh > where Upanawhatsisname - the really old guy about a thousand years or so old > - reveals the secret of longevity: a tree that grows UNDERWATER. > > There's lots of interesting historical stuff in the Bible too if some of you > aren't too wracked by self doubt, fear, and loathing to have a look. Freenrg > themes too. I think King Solomon had artificial lighting in the temple, for > instance. Something about retaining some of the "old knowledge"? And I'm > sure I don't even have to mention that Ark; it made all those Nazi's faces > melt out on that island! (Woops, wrong movie.) And how about those > giants born of the visitors from the sky and the daughters of men? Big > people with distinctive characteristics, like 12 fingers and 12 toes. > There's also stories in there about how the Semite tribes tried to commit > genocide against these people and were rather proud of their apparent > success at it, too. Ever see the odd skulls coming out of South America? I > guess some got away. Or maybe the forensic guys should be looking for > jawbone-of-an-ass marks? Anyway, in the E. of G. they had to travel east > across a shallow sea to get the the distant land where the sun was up when > it was midnight back home (Sumeria). I think they lost the tree sample in a > storm on the way back. Foo, eh? Never forget to back up your data! > > I'd better stop now before somebody thinks I'm preaching Christianity or > Anti-Semitism or Neo-Sumerian Shamanist Techno-Taoism or something and gets > in a big hussy fit and signs off Freenrg list. We wouldn't want that. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 08:07:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA00605; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:05:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:05:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3710BD42.616ED6C3@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:18:26 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Weber Electrodynamics References: <199904110012.CAA01908@ns.b.vossnet.de> <3710AF0A.A6D0E904@servtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EgGXj1.0.M9.ueB4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I just finished reading through Andre Assis' book "Weber's Electrodynamics" and I highly recommend it. If you have had a college level course on electrodynamics (of the Maxwell kind) you wont have any problems with the mathematics or understanding what is being written. Weber's electrodynamics seems to be a covering theory of electrodynamics. That is, with certain restrictions, you can derive Maxwell's equations. (So Maxwell's theory is not thrown out but is a "special case" of a more inclusive theory.) You can also derive Ampere's force law between two current elements. (Ampere's electrodynamics is presented in Graneau's book "Newtonian Electrodynamics".) As I mentioned before, there are now many experiments which show that Maxwell's electrodynamics is not complete in that it can not correctly predict/explain the experimental results. So more and more physicists are looking for alternatives. Weber's electrodynamics is an interesting alternative. It includes conservation of linear momentum, angular momentum and energy. And it conforms to Newton's 3rd law in the strong form (action-reaction along the line joinning the two elements.) (Maxwell's theory does not have all these properties.) And it is a "relative" theory. That is, it only depends on the relative position of the particles, relative velocity and relative acceleration. So the calculated results are valid in any reference frame (including non-inertial reference frame.) Weber's force equation between 2 charged particles includes terms involving the relative velocity and relative acceleration between the two particles. So you get forces arising due to velocity and acceleration. Here are some interesting quotes from the book. The author is talking about test charges inside a sphere which is at a high electrical potential. "... We do not know of any experiment which has ever been performed in order to test this prediction. It is possible that some charges may behave as if they had a negative inertial mass in some regions of high electrostatic potential. We can not rule out this possibility only because it is unusual. ..." " This prediction of negative or zero effective inertial mass was based not only on Weber's electrodynamics but also on Newtonian mechanics...." "Let us suppose that the test charge is an electron.... Choosing the zero of the potential of the shell at infinity, Weber's inertial mass for this geometry can be written as mw = q (phi)/3c^2, where (phi) = Q/4(pi)(epsilon-zero)R is the potential of the shell. In order to double its effective inertial mass (or to make it go to zero), the electron would need to be inside a spherical shell charged to a potential of 1.5x10^6 V." Food for thought.... Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 08:07:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA00769; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:06:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:06:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199904111507.MAA14458@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Improving To: Trevmaniac@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:06:29 -2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Tesla Switches Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"0Vyfb1.0.sB.SfB4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > From: Trevmaniac@aol.com > Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:41:43 EDT > Subject: Tesla Switches > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Reply-to: Trevmaniac@aol.com > Has anyone built a Tesla Switch like the one Bedini built and demonstrated in > the mid 80's? It was used for charging batteries. If so, I would be > interested to know what switching frequencies were used, and how it performed. > > Trevor > I have tried ir without success. My guess is that circuit need some inductance to make it resonating. Have tried spice simulations, but without positive results. Maybe some specific batteries will give you something. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 10:12:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29426; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:12:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:12:02 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Red Dwarf my Mind Message-Id: <923850675.1419.305@excite.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:11:15 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"lLE113.0.hB7.YVD4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I was watching an episode of BBC Red Dwarf series where they land on an earth where the time is running backwards and also lettered signs appeared backwards to them. Every thing that they said appeared as reverse language to those on earth, and everything earth people said appeared as reverse language to them(luckily they had the block head guy,he must be some kind of computer, to translate and communicate for them.) Now as I began to think about this interaction it started to have an effect. Each universe appears as a negative entropy to the other.Each universe shows an aspect of free energy to the other,but in actuality it only relatively appears that way to the other.If it were possible to react a forward running universe with a backwards; one's gravity would appear as antigravity to the other and vice versa. Aside from these frivolous thinkings of no consequence it is also observed that that a discharging battery across a load would appear as a load charging a battery to this hypothetical opposite universe; quite an unlikely occurence, but in this freenrg list these kind of elusive events seem to occur and mainly seem to be due to energy being placed in storage via magnetic and electric fields and somehow being manipulated so as to return more energy to the source than was inputed or stored. Of course the first of these modern claims was Newman who has been denoted somewhat of a hillbilly scientist. I say let the marketplace support him if he is affordable.Now we also have the other developements of Bedini and the theorizing of T Beardon of which I wonder if he qualifies as a hillbilly electrical engineer. With this in mind I wanted to post some of the latest rehash appearing on his site. I am not an electrical engineer but some day hope to acquire a degree if time permits. We should thank Zack, Bob and Bill B among the many who have given the correct understandings of certain wordings. Now of course it gets kind of hazy to me when T bearden goes into some of his wordings but even I thought I noticed some bad physics which I will post at end. But first I have a Red Dwarf paradox that perhaps may even confound the excellent opinions of our electrical engineers here. I was thinking about how the analogy of a battery and load in this topsy turvey backwards forward universe could be applied to AC. Of course the first opinion would be that an ac current from the red dwarf ship(accompanied by the appropriate long extension cord of course!)would be moving in opposite directions with respect to both viewers. And now we see the correlation with a popular theory and based on an actual optical effect known as phase conjugate reflection where the seemingly impossible effect of a reflection traveling backwards to its source on the same exact pathway occurs.It has been hypothesized that to explain certain observations in quantum mechanics described as a consequence of the Schrodingers cat paradox(dont want to go there,curiosity can kill the cat)that somehow the knowledge of the destination of a particle is conveyed back to its source before it gets there. Like I said I dont want to go there because I am totally unqualified to voice an opinion here but it seems that the theory of a reverse time signal can resolve the paradox and has been noted on Keelynet recently 3-10-99 John Kooiman Scalar Em And Q.M. quote from "Schrodingers Kittens and the Search for Reality" by J Gribbon; The dramatic success in resolving all the puzzles of quantum physics has been acheived at the cost of accepting just one idea that seems to run counter to common sense - the idea that a quantum wave really can travel backwards through time... So in light of this comment perhaps our red dwarf gig is worth taking a second look! The thing about it that struck me was that if I had a resonating AC coil from the red dwarf extension cord and I wanted to see what earths counterpart resonating coil would look like in comparison we suppose it would be the same thing in reverse or 180 out of phase. Of course many underprivileged reverse time travelers will miss a simple fact that even though these two identical circuits are 180 out of phase and opposite that does not mean they necessarily have to exhibit a repulsive force when placed together in mutual inductance. Ahoy mates; has our wayward ship stumbled onto some new territory here? Whats this business about allowing a coil from the future to interact magnetically with a coil from the past! By geewilla winkers maybe thats how the cat got on the ship in the first place. Me thinks we should ask holly about this one. Perhaps it is bad circumstance to allow these coils to even interact! Holly Replies: you silly intrepid space travelers should update your travelogue with the correct British spellings. The coil you resonated from the ship had its own inductive reactance which you resonated it by cancelling with the identical capacitive reactance. The folks on earth did the same thing. But when you put these coils together they produce two new possibilities, that of a mutual inductance either higher or lower than the original values each of you used to resonate the coils in the first place!! Holly Grins: Perhaps it is better Y'all get sent back to Heisenberg and tell him about this uncertainty that is involved. Asking such silly questions! How can one even specify a scalar wave without knowing these parameters? As Frank Zappa once noted the crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe (') . Having journeyed thus far my mind began to play tricks on me. But I did know one fact and I was one up on Holly. I knew everything about what he said but then I came upon a stumbling block. I had already conducted these experiments on Red Dwarf itself without the aid of the earth beings in time reversal. That was because I could produce both of these effects and determine through numerous trial and error methods what the mutual inductance effect would be, however only in the case of magnetic agreement did I have the time to verify. Needless to say that I could make a series resonant circuit in a box. I could make two of them in two boxes. I could turn one of them opposite and plug them both in like two appliances in parallel. Then I could interact them in space and see how each capacitive reactance would needed to be changed so that both could still resonate to their fullest degree in spatial interaction of mutual induction. In accordance with this idea it is simplistically stated that two commonsense methods can be used to create an opposite or supposedly conjugate phase. Either turn the whole schematic upside down and plug it in to the source backwards with respect to its conjugate, or reverse the source connections. It sounds very stupid having to say such a thing but I would rather be clear on the exposition of a method than be misunderstood in the realm of semantics and word games few can understand. Now understand this next paradox. Simply turning the circuit around like that gives a opposite phase for a series res. circuit because it is 2 parts in series, a cap and coil, that can be looked at differently in two directions. Now suppose I wanted to go back to Red Dwarf and do the same thing to confound Holly, only this time I am given the task of making a replica mirror image of a parallel resonant circuit instead of a series. When I turn the schematic upside down and plug it in, it is the same thing because that circuit has a mirror image symmetry and turning it upside down does not solve the problem; it is still the same circuit. Yet reason dictates that I should be able to go back to this hypothetical Red Dwarf ship and be able to make 2 parallel resonant circuits on two identical coils; each with coils conducting currents in opposite respective directions as in the former example. The only other seemingly plausible possibility left is none at all; that is reversing the input connections as the other possibility. I know the answer to this of course and have well publicized it in the manner of friends, romans and countrymen, lend me your ears.I have only found one correct answer and leave it to others to understand. Now back to Beardon; here are some statements I disagree with. Since Lorentz, our engineers are taught to calculate the energy dissipation flow in circuits, and erroneously call it the "Poynting energy flow." The result is that most "power" engineers really no longer know the difference between energy transport (which need not have any change in form, and therefore have zero power) and energy divergence (which has a change in form, hence exhibits power). Power is rigorously the time rate of doing work. Hence it is the time-rate of changing the form of energy. If there is no change of form of the energy, as it propagates, it has zero power. Further, power is developed locally in each "dissipating" component or "component changing the form" of the energy. It is NOT in the battery of generator. To speak of "drawing power from the generator or the battery is an oxymoron and a monstrosity. Yet our texts and journal papers are filled with just those phrases. Let us make this very concrete. Take a charged capacitor, and lay it on top of a permanent magnet so that the E-field of the capacitor is at right angles to the H-field of the magnet. Then the standard Poynting flow S is given by S = ExH, which is maximized for a 90-degree angle between E and H. In fact, the magnitude S of S is just the product of the two magnitudes E and H. The direction of S is at right angles to both E and H, and given by the usual right hand rule. Well, even by orthodox theory, that is a Poynting energy generator. I just sits there and pours out free energy, directly extracting it from the vacuum. There are two dipoles -- one electrical and one magnetic -- continuously serving as an asymmetry in the fierce vacuum flux. I am entirely unfamiliar with this "Poynting flow" but I am somewhat familiar with the lorentz law. As others have pointed out to me the lorentz law only applies when the electric field E causes charge movement: THEN a perpendicular B magnetic field will produce a force at right angles to both E and B in direct proportion to the charge movement caused by E. If E causes little or no charge movement, the lorentz force is correspondingly reduced. Correct me when I am wrong but Beardon seems to imply that the same conditions exist in a static case, which by physics laws is not the case. Would appreciate the opinions of our esteemed colleages in this matter. Sincere in the truth: Harvey D Norris _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 10:19:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31757; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:18:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:18:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:18:42 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mini Romag test great ! In-Reply-To: <199904110012.CAA01908@ns.b.vossnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PPRwA2.0.5m7.sbD4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > If it is true, that you can just move > a magnet 90 degrees "wrong" polarised > through a coil and it still generates > a usable positive induction pulse, > which can be used without any drag by > powering a load via a diode, > I guess you have "positively violated" > the Lenz law ! But.. but... the Romag is very similar to a conventional generator! A conventional method to construct a polyphase AC generator is to spin a PM magnet within an iron ring, and wind three coils on the ring. (This might even be a Tesla patent(?), since Tesla did use this geometry in some of his devices) The field from the magnet runs through the ring (axially through the coils,) just like a conventional generator, and as the fields change, you get normal AC. Think of the generator as being several electromagnets with ends touching. The flux can still enter through the side of one inactive coil, pass through an active coil, then exit through the side of another inactive coil. After looking at this www.magneticenergy website, several things spring to mind: - Absolutely wonderful that the inventor is not being secretive. The "normal" situation is that the inventor wishes to keep their valuable discoveries proprietary in an attempt to maximize monetary income (although secrecy always seems to have the opposite effect where F/E devices are involved.) - Have these devices been built, and shown to display effects which violate conventional theory? I've seen complicated plans in the past which were "channeled information", and had never been actually built. The proof is in the pudding, not in the complexity or precision details of the recipe. - Have the F/E devices been operated in "stand alone" mode? If the device puts out massive excess energy, it is easy to close the loop. If the F/E behavior is determined by measurement (or even worse, only predicted by the inventor's theory), then it is possibly mistaken. Closed-loop operation removes most possible mistakes. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 12:30:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25905; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:29:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:29:52 -0700 From: "Sergei M.Godin" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:20:54 +0400 Message-ID: <01be8450$6b8b6460$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"l1nkk2.0.cK6.mWF4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan! I think, that it is best for checking up in good capacitor oil or a silicon liquid. Regards, Sergei Godin >Hi, > >could this thing also just work on ion wind ? > >Just would be good to test this in a vacuum chamber, to see, >if the ion wind does not do the propulsion ! > >Regards, Stefan. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 12:30:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25861; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:29:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:29:48 -0700 From: "Sergei M.Godin" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:28:31 +0400 Message-ID: <01be8451$7b6fe260$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"I1pO62.0.-J6.hWF4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All, 20MV??? It's a full garbage! Can you present to yourselves this awful voltage practically? (1.4MV is enough to discharges via 5 meters of dry air!) Regards, SMG >At 05:39 1999-04-11 EDT, you wrote: >>Dear All, >> >>If you want to see a working EHD Flying Saucer... >> >>Look at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdfsv1.htm >> >>You will find also all diagrams, pictures, and video for reproducing the >>experiment yourself. > >Higly interesting. What we need is experiments. > >I like to remind you about the book Electrogravitics Systems edited by Tom >Valone. It has several chapters by different authors. TT Brown patents are >there. There is one chapter about B2 where it is said it uses 20 MV for >propulsion. > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0964107007/qid%3D923669537/002-558547 >6-6673256 > >Can you increase your voltage? I suppose UFOs symmetrical shape is because >the need to rotate in order to gyrostabilize their unstable thrust? > >David > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 12:47:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA31321; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:47:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:47:37 -0700 Message-ID: <37111792.CF2BDA82@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:43:46 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: High K dielectrics? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QHn9z1.0.If7.PnF4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com All: Anyone here know a source for high-k dielectrics, preferably not extremely expensive? If I have to, I am willing to spend $$$... Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 13:04:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05334; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:03:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:03:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:03:32 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Machiavellian resistance and suppressed history Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"y7Br-.0.FJ1.S0G4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 08:38 PM 4/4/99 -0400, you wrote: > > As an apt illustration of the above, Albert Einstein introduced his > special theory of relativity in 1905 while he was still a student > and working in the patent office in Switzerland. The skeptical > responses regarding the theory, and him as a scientist and man, > were not only noisy but exceedingly --voluminous.-- > > By 1925, historians appraised that the Einstein "debate" had > accumulated the largest printed paper volume ever. > > When the special theory was proven correct between 1927 and 1929, > it was shown that relativity was perpetual --- naturally > existing and true. The skeptical and debunking responses were shown > as transitory, however ardent and voluminous they had > been. None of the names of Einstein's skeptics are remembered. > And this is the ignominious fate of most skeptics --- because the > times and tides of discovery march on and forget they existed. The Skeptics are forgotten, true, but there's another less positive aspect to this which is very important. I've met people on sci.physics WHO ARE CERTAIN THAT EINSTEIN WAS NEVER ATTACKED! In my opinion this is a *very* serious problem in modern science: scientists "modify history" in an attempt to cling to a false vision where science never makes huge, embarassing blunders, and where science always proceeds by calm, rational expansion of the current thinking. Thomas Kuhn punctures this mythical vision, but why is Kuhn needed at all? That "Structures of Scientific Revolutions" is important and controversial tells us much about the mindset of contemporary scientists. When a "crazy theory" is suppressed by presumably intellegent and rational researchers, the suppressors see no problem with this, since they sincerely believe that crazy theories are invariably wrong, and that useful new theories are always recognized and promoted. History teaches that the exact opposite is often true, but scientists do not seem to know or accept this. The main argument that scientists use against "crazy" theories is this: Thousands of scientists say the theory is crazy, and that many scientists cannot be wrong. We in the "weird science" fields see the obvious fallacy in the above reasoning, but I suspect that the majority of scientists would not. Their above statement could be modified thusly: Thousands of scientists say the theory is crazy, and HISTORY TELLS US that large numbers of scientists ARE NEVER wrong. Would contemporary scientists agree with the above statement? I suspect that they would. I also suspect that this is not simply a mistake. Instead it involves some toxic psychology. If we as scientists insist that scientific concensus is rarely wrong, and if we fear that perhaps this is not the case, then we will tend to only remember instances which support our beliefs. We will also tend to ignore any historical evidence scientific concensus was hugely, embarassingly mistaken in the past. We might even attempt to actively suppress this threatening information. For example, when teaching history to science students, we might paint a false picture of the history of Einstein's relativity, one where a significant group of scientists DID NOT attack Einstein, where NO ad hominem was used, and where the large group of attackers did not steal away silently after Einstein was vindicated. Over several years I've come to this opinion, and your stuff about Einstein brings it to a head. It is also fairly humorous, because when arguing with people about the past mistakes of science, I find that they frequently use an argument that goes something like this: Well, yes, Weltner's ideas about plate tectonics were suppressed. And the Wright Brothers, not being scientists, were ignored. But those were isolated cases, and science doesn't usually proceed like this. For example, Einstein's relativity was immediately adopted. After all, when Einstein's theories gained popularity, thousands of skeptical scientists didn't start vehemently badmouthing Einstein! It appears that vicious, closed-minded scientists of the past are not simply forgotten. Instead, scientists tend to censor history in order to make themselves look good, and the nasty side of scientific controversy, as well as the embarassing scientific mistakes of the past, become conveniently dis-remembered. There has been quite a bit of discussion of Cold Fusion skepticism on Vortex-L. I've noticed the frequent comment that, when Cold Fusion finally proves correct, that the CF debunkers will be held up to ridicule. People have commented that the CF episode will eventually force science to change its tune about suppression of "crazy theories", so that future controversies will proceed very differently. I disagree. History teaches that "CF-like" episodes have already occurred again and again, and they have not made science change its tune. Scientists do not learn from history. As a group, they refuse to even study accurate history, since history paints a fairly distateful picture of how science actually operates. If history is any guide, then when Cold Fusion is vindicated, scientists will quickly adopt a convenient amnesia, and they'll come to "remember" that CF was immediately accepted in 1989. The books which attacked CF will not be seen as evidence that Science made another embarassing blunder. Instead, scientists will see the authors of those books as representing rare aberrations, not as representing the opinion of the majority of scientists at the time. Here's a couple of my "under construction" pages about these topics: ABHORRANT IDEAS IN SCIENCE http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/abhor.html SYMPTOMS OF PATHOLOGICAL SKEPTICISM http://www.amasci.com/pathsk2.html Perhaps I should add Special Relativity to my list of "abhorrent ideas now accepted." :) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 13:41:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA15856; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:41:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:41:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990411122155.1d6f3402@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:21:55 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: High K dielectrics? In-Reply-To: <37111792.CF2BDA82@sunherald.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"G1_8A1.0.ft3.SZG4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Kyle, At 02:43 PM 4/11/99 -0700, you wrote: >All: > >Anyone here know a source for high-k dielectrics, preferably not >extremely expensive? If I have to, I am willing to spend $$$... > >Kyle R. Mcallister > What about the various ceramics in disk ceramic capacitors? There is some info at www.novacap.com. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 13:53:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19294; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:52:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:52:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3710EEC4.33CB3F4D@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:49:40 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance, Real Noah, the flood References: <199904110422.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TGNpg3.0.Jj4.rjG4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com WOW! Rick, I couldnt have said it any better myself! Thanks for pointing this out mon ami! I'm familiar with everything you mentioned below except the 'artficial lighting in Solomons Temple' can you elaborate? Also I was familiar with the Gilgamesh related story about the tree but didnt realize it was supposed to be found underwater? Could you elaborate on this also? Cheers! Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Don - > > > Obviously your comment is related to an axe you > > have to grind and not to what I posted. > > Sheesh, no kidding. Creation Science does have a very specific religious > agenda, so they will filter data strictly towards that end. But in their > opposition to the status quo, they do have a tendency to find and document > some of the holes in science generally and archaeology in particular which > are big enough to drive a camel through. And by the way all you heretics out > there, the story of the great flood appears in most if not all old cultures, > and was probably as old to the people in biblical times as biblical times > are to us. When I read that note, I was reminded of the Epic of Gilgamesh > where Upanawhatsisname - the really old guy about a thousand years or so old > - reveals the secret of longevity: a tree that grows UNDERWATER. > > There's lots of interesting historical stuff in the Bible too if some of you > aren't too wracked by self doubt, fear, and loathing to have a look. Freenrg > themes too. I think King Solomon had artificial lighting in the temple, for > instance. Something about retaining some of the "old knowledge"? And I'm > sure I don't even have to mention that Ark; it made all those Nazi's faces > melt out on that island! (Woops, wrong movie.) And how about those > giants born of the visitors from the sky and the daughters of men? Big > people with distinctive characteristics, like 12 fingers and 12 toes. > There's also stories in there about how the Semite tribes tried to commit > genocide against these people and were rather proud of their apparent > success at it, too. Ever see the odd skulls coming out of South America? I > guess some got away. Or maybe the forensic guys should be looking for > jawbone-of-an-ass marks? Anyway, in the E. of G. they had to travel east > across a shallow sea to get the the distant land where the sun was up when > it was midnight back home (Sumeria). I think they lost the tree sample in a > storm on the way back. Foo, eh? Never forget to back up your data! > > I'd better stop now before somebody thinks I'm preaching Christianity or > Anti-Semitism or Neo-Sumerian Shamanist Techno-Taoism or something and gets > in a big hussy fit and signs off Freenrg list. We wouldn't want that. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 14:01:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23481; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:01:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:01:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3710F14A.E252B2ED@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:00:26 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... References: <199904111022.MAA13455@ns.b.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RQUJB1.0.ek5.PsG4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com this appears similiar to the 'ionocraft'? Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > At 05:39 11.04.99 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > >Dear All, > > > >If you want to see a working EHD Flying Saucer... > > > >Look at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdfsv1.htm > > > >You will find also all diagrams, pictures, and video for reproducing the > >experiment yourself. > > > >I think that this will interest you. > > > >Ps: This is NOT an April joke... > > > >Best Regards, > > > >Jean-Louis Naudin > >Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com > >Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm > > > > Hi, > > could this thing also just work on ion wind ? > > Just would be good to test this in a vacuum chamber, to see, > if the ion wind does not do the propulsion ! > > Regards, Stefan. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 14:02:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23699; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:01:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:01:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3710F143.C7CBD82B@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:00:19 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance,Real Noah, the flood References: <199904111416.JAA25660@mw2.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7eLRf.0.pn5.XsG4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You know, something I've found myself appreciating over the last while are the scientists on the fringe.. whether its a seemingly agnostic Michael Cremo who discovers 'Forbidden Archaelogy' or whether its Creation Scientists who are pointing out the glaring errors of popular media supported pre-digested science for the masses. Having non-mainstream players involved in the kitchen can keep the self proclaimed chefs (humanistic scientists) more honest. Its funny how history repeats itself but with curious twists along the way... back in the middle ages and the renaissance it was the religous institutions that persecuted some scientists that didnt support their world view and now this brand of scientists persecutes any worldview which doesnt support their philosophical view of humanism. The common element here that never seems to change though is the fringe group that doesnt focus on either philosophies to the disclusion of real, genuine discovery. Whether it be a a person of a Christian persuasion like Newton or one of agnosticism such as Cremo. These players stick with the game to try and explore that which is around us. I recall a funny quote I had read years ago...it went something like this... 'After scaling the mountain of ignorance, enduring many hardships and avoiding perilous pitfalls and finally, finally pulling their sweating, battered, brusied and bloodied bodies over the final peak of understanding, the scientists were shocked and surprised to see a group of theologians sitting around a campfire and having been there for centuries....' Joe Portman wrote: > > Hey, Rick, > Religion is a touchy subject, ain't it ? Even when you are trying to > point out the science it sometimes involves.....duh > Joe Portman > =========== > > ---------- > > From: Rick Monteverde > > To: freenrg list > > Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans > resonance,Real Noah, the flood > > Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 3:03 AM > > > > Don - > > > > > Obviously your comment is related to an axe you > > > have to grind and not to what I posted. > > > > Sheesh, no kidding. Creation Science does have a very specific religious > > agenda, so they will filter data strictly towards that end. But in their > > opposition to the status quo, they do have a tendency to find and > document > > some of the holes in science generally and archaeology in particular > which > > are big enough to drive a camel through. And by the way all you heretics > out > > there, the story of the great flood appears in most if not all old > cultures, > > and was probably as old to the people in biblical times as biblical times > > are to us. When I read that note, I was reminded of the Epic of Gilgamesh > > where Upanawhatsisname - the really old guy about a thousand years or so > old > > - reveals the secret of longevity: a tree that grows UNDERWATER. > > > > There's lots of interesting historical stuff in the Bible too if some of > you > > aren't too wracked by self doubt, fear, and loathing to have a look. > Freenrg > > themes too. I think King Solomon had artificial lighting in the temple, > for > > instance. Something about retaining some of the "old knowledge"? And I'm > > sure I don't even have to mention that Ark; it made all those Nazi's > faces > > melt out on that island! (Woops, wrong movie.) And how about those > > giants born of the visitors from the sky and the daughters of men? Big > > people with distinctive characteristics, like 12 fingers and 12 toes. > > There's also stories in there about how the Semite tribes tried to commit > > genocide against these people and were rather proud of their apparent > > success at it, too. Ever see the odd skulls coming out of South America? > I > > guess some got away. Or maybe the forensic guys should be looking for > > jawbone-of-an-ass marks? Anyway, in the E. of G. they had to travel east > > across a shallow sea to get the the distant land where the sun was up > when > > it was midnight back home (Sumeria). I think they lost the tree sample in > a > > storm on the way back. Foo, eh? Never forget to back up your data! > > > > I'd better stop now before somebody thinks I'm preaching Christianity or > > Anti-Semitism or Neo-Sumerian Shamanist Techno-Taoism or something and > gets > > in a big hussy fit and signs off Freenrg list. We wouldn't want that. > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 14:09:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05002; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:09:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:09:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37112AB6.4CB7B628@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:05:26 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: High K dielectrics? References: <3.0.6.16.19990411122155.1d6f3402@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tEjuQ.0.zD1.1-G4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave Dameron wrote: > What about the various ceramics in disk ceramic capacitors? > There is some info at www.novacap.com. Those would work, but where can these ceramics be purchased from? Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 14:21:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18508; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:17:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:17:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199904112117.QAA21000@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: High K dielectrics? Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:14:59 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qzJRN.0._W4.N5H4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What do you call high K ? range ? Joe =============================== ---------- > From: Dave Dameron > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: High K dielectrics? > Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 7:21 AM > > Hi Kyle, > At 02:43 PM 4/11/99 -0700, you wrote: > >All: > > > >Anyone here know a source for high-k dielectrics, preferably not > >extremely expensive? If I have to, I am willing to spend $$$... > > > >Kyle R. Mcallister > > > What about the various ceramics in disk ceramic capacitors? > There is some info at www.novacap.com. > -Dave > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 14:25:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA31438; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:24:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:24:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990411130619.23a72bc6@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:06:19 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Weber Electrodynamics In-Reply-To: <3710BD42.616ED6C3@servtech.com> References: <199904110012.CAA01908@ns.b.vossnet.de> <3710AF0A.A6D0E904@servtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"t38tl3.0.7h7.PCH4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bob and all, At 11:18 AM 4/11/99 -0400, you wrote: > >I just finished reading through Andre Assis' book "Weber's Electrodynamics" > Thanks for this review. I will look for this book. The test mentioned in your other post with a ferromagnetic rod on a current rail seems easy to duplicate and interesting. Have you thought of testing it? Do you know any reason why AC could not be used (from a 1 turn transformer secondary)? Have you done any more experiments with Ampere current elements? >theory.) You can also derive Ampere's force law between two current >elements. (Ampere's electrodynamics is presented in Graneau's book >"Newtonian >Electrodynamics".) > >Here are some interesting quotes from the book. The author is talking >about test charges inside a sphere which is at a high electrical potential. > >"... We do not know of any experiment which has ever been performed >in order to test this prediction. It is possible that some charges may >behave as if they had a negative inertial mass in some regions of high >electrostatic potential. We can not rule out this possibility only because >it >is unusual. ..." > >" This prediction of negative or zero effective inertial mass was based >not only on Weber's electrodynamics but also on Newtonian mechanics...." > Normally a sphere and the region inside it is thought of equal-potential. One can see the effect of this potential (vs. an electric field) on an electron with the sphere/region charged to 1.4MV as an inertial mass of 1+/-1? This sounds very interesting too, don't know who can test it, though. Wonder if it is related to some of T.T. Brown's effects? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 15:23:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA23218; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:19:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:19:19 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: High K dielectrics? Message-Id: <923869108.8155.733@excite.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:18:28 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.133 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"WQ5nN.0.cg5.d_H4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:43:46 -0700, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > All: > > Anyone here know a source for high-k dielectrics, preferably not > extremely expensive? If I have to, I am willing to spend $$$... > > Kyle R. Mcallister > >> Years ago Bill Meskan of Plastic Capacitors Inc. wrote an article for Extraordinary Science, former ITS publication. Idont know about a web site,this was before internet. I talked with him by phone about the best dielectrics and he was very helpful and went out of his way to send me useful info. I worked in a chemical industry and had access to titanium dioxide and was wondering why it hadnt been employed for capacitive uses in general due to its high dielectric constant. Titanium dioxide is the white pigment source used in paints and plastic processing as a colorant. One can obtain this powder at an art supply house for extremely high mark up prices. The problem with procurring experimental materials is that the manufacturer doesnt care to supply a small amount to any particular individual, and the first question that is usually asked is what do you want it for and what co. are you with. At that time about 10 years ago a 50 lb bag might have cost $ 200.00 which isnt really that bad a price considering what 50 lb can make. The dielectric constant of the different varieties of this oxide powder varied between 14 -110 at 10^6 hz. I had made wax concentrates of titanium dioxide which made it a more usable form. These were made by melting paraffin and adding the powder which would settle down to the bottom of the container as a dense concentrate. If you would like to sample this material for tests I could suppy this in small amounts to determine your feasibility. The titanates (Ba,Sr,Ca, Mg and Pb) are listed in plastic application as containing between 15- 12,000 dielectric constant.I have no idea why this big gulf exists, perhaps different grades do different abilities. The variety of titanium oxides itself available in industrial application is numerous, We used at least 5 different types in plastic processing. I have no idea about the practicallity of making a titanate concentrate, but I did make combinations of strontium ferrite powder in a wax concentrate that had the unusual quality of both being magnetic and a dielectric. I also mixed this with cement and a special additive to produce a high dielectric constant but the effect at higher frequencies might be counterproductive in that the material appeared to conduct rather than acting as an insulator at those conditions. Actually compressed strontium ferrite as sold in the form of ceramic magnets itself has a high dielectric constant. The whole problem becomes how are you going to form the material. It was my thinking that a wax concentrate might prove useful in these applications whereby it could be made to easily melt and solidify upon a plate for application. Plastic Caps was out of Chicago Ill. Hope my info was of help HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 16:31:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07924; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:30:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:30:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 13:28:52 -1000 Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance, Real Noah, the flood From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904111947.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"gRQvX3.0.jx1.X2J4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Don - >WOW! Rick, I couldnt have said it any better myself! Thanks for >pointing this out mon ami! I'm familiar with everything you mentioned >below except the 'artficial lighting in Solomons Temple' can you >elaborate? Also I was familiar >with the Gilgamesh related story about the tree but didnt realize it was >supposed to be found underwater? Could you elaborate on this also? I think there is a book out somewhere on the interesting science clues in the Bible. I don't have the reference, and can't remember where in the Bible it is. Check Epic of Gilgamesh for the tree story. I don't have it either. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 16:32:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08107; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:31:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:31:43 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:36:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199904112336.BAA29384@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: William Beaty , freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: New special coil arrangement test great ! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA08083 Resent-Message-ID: <"OKQMa1.0.a-1.V3J4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:18 11.04.99 -0700, William Beaty wrote: >On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >> If it is true, that you can just move >> a magnet 90 degrees "wrong" polarised >> through a coil and it still generates >> a usable positive induction pulse, >> which can be used without any drag by >> powering a load via a diode, >> I guess you have "positively violated" >> the Lenz law ! > >But.. but... the Romag is very similar to a conventional generator! A >conventional method to construct a polyphase AC generator is to spin a PM >magnet within an iron ring, and wind three coils on the ring. (This might >even be a Tesla patent(?), since Tesla did use this geometry in some of >his devices) The field from the magnet runs through the ring (axially >through the coils,) just like a conventional generator, and as the fields >change, you get normal AC. Think of the generator as being several >electromagnets with ends touching. The flux can still enter through the >side of one inactive coil, pass through an active coil, then exit through >the side of another inactive coil. > ...snip... Hi Bill and All, please have a look again at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/mromexp.htm I am just exited by the new experiment Naudin has done, not the Romag itsself. If Naudin´s experiment is true, that he can capture the positive BACK-EMF induction pulse via a diode and does not get any drag onto the rotor this way, this is really the way to build an overunity generator. You can extract this positive pulse (and just this positive pulse only !) and drawing massive power from it, without loading and raising the input torque required to rotate the rotor with the magnet on it ! So I guess, if this is not a measurement error of JL Naudin one could build a generator which has the same input power needed for running in idle mode or when drawing lots of power out of the output coils ! Let´s make an example: To run the rotor at 2500 RPM idle will require maybe 3 Watts of input power to the DC motor. (without loading the output coils in any way, coil connections are open !)(just to overcome all friction losses) Now short out the positive EMF spike via a diode and a load resistor. This load resistor might convert the EMF spike to about 10 Watts of heat, but the rotor DC motor will still only need 3.2 Watts of input power to remain at 2500 RPM. If this would be true, we would have an "incremental efficiency" of 5000 % ! (coils internal DC resistance not counted in = 0 Ohm for easier calculation) I hope that the experiment from Naudin holds true, cause this would be a sure and easy way to generate overunity output from a generator. It would be the easiest way known to me to violate the Lenz Law ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 16:32:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08201; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:31:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:31:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:36:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199904112336.BAA29381@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: "Newman-L Mailing List" , ckuelzow@home.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Your Negative input power Newman experiment Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA08136 Resent-Message-ID: <"WrI6S2.0.202.i3J4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:25 11.04.99 -0400, Newman-L Mailing List wrote: >Hello, >In the excitement of the moments just prior to blowing up my stator (yes >again), I observed something very interesting. FYI visit my site and >look at today's page. > >Regards >Chris Kuelzow > >So I let it run as I absorbed the action. I then walked around and looked at >the ammeter. It was negative! At all running voltages the meter was pegged >backwards, pulsating at some irregular low frequency. >>>>> > >I stopped the unit. I reversed the connections to the meter to try to >characterize the waveform. I started the system back up. Bingo! It was >exactly the same behavior. > > >In my excitement, I brought the motor to new (running) voltage levels. Bang. Hi Chris, well done ! I had also in one experiment with my biggest Newman coil at least on the scope an all negative input current(integrated visually over one period), when I used 2 spark gaps in series and thus getting faster current disrupts. But my input amperemeter was all the time still positive, small input only but still positive. Now it really depends on your input circuit and HV supply generator, how it is build and what kind of input amperemeter you use, to say what is going on. Do you have a circuit or block diagramm of your HV supply device ? As you don´t shut down the RF spark spikes via a neon bulb your input amperemeter could be saturated by RF bursts and show invalid current pulses or your rectifier circuit inside the HV generator at the outpt stage is saturated by RF or some other cases that might apply. As you did not yet take scope measurements and you don´t know how your input amperemeter reacts to big RF bursts you really can´t say what is going on there. If you really have ALL the TIME negative input current this motor could be operated by a one time charged capacitor bank and would never drain down the caps, but just charge them up. Maybe you can try this experiment again and watch the voltage of a charged 18 KV Capacitor if it raises or discharges... I agree, that stacking up spark gaps ( or in this case commutator contact switches) in series helps a lot for producing the Newman back current recharge effect. It just generates a faster dI/dt and that gives a higher induction voltage and a longer ringing of the coils internal LC circuit. BTW, have you already measured the inductance and the capacitance of your 18 ? coils all in all ? What is the contact material of your commutator segments ? What is the brush material ? These materials play an important role in a Newman setup ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 16:33:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08997; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:33:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:33:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:33:01 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... In-Reply-To: <01be8450$6b8b6460$LocalHost@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mFL5b1.0.PC2.q4J4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Sergei M.Godin wrote: > Hi Stefan! > > I think, that it is best for checking up in good capacitor oil > or a silicon liquid. Or just put the whole thing inside of a plastic bag! If no air jets can escape, the ion-jet reaction forces must be zero. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 16:44:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA14133; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:43:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:43:28 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 13:41:41 -1000 Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance,Real Noah, the flood From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904112000.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"lN8Xu2.0.kS3.WEJ4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Don - As to a "seemingly agnostic Michael Cremo", you should know (maybe you already do) that he is a follower of the teachings of Bahktivedanta, founder of the "Krishnas" - yes, the 'airport people'. His partner Thompson is as well, and is also the author of the excellent "Alien Identities" which examines modern UFO lore with respect to the old literature out of India. IMO anyone with an interest in in a complete alternative view of where we've been and what's going on here should read these three books: Bramley's "Gods of Eden", Thompson's "Alien Identities", and Cremo & Thompson's "Forbidden Arehaeology". I don't look at these as oracles of absolute answers, but for those who think there isn't enough evidence to draw some pretty startling general conclusions with a pretty good confidence level, check these out. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 16:47:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16227; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:46:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:46:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199904112347.UAA32321@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Improving To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:47:21 -2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Gilgamesh ... Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199904111947.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"2WP-u1.0.Nz3.dHJ4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > I think there is a book out somewhere on the interesting science clues in > the Bible. I don't have the reference, and can't remember where in the Bible > it is. Check Epic of Gilgamesh for the tree story. I don't have it either. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > I would suggest the books from Zecharia Sitchin. - The 12nd. Planet - The Lost Realms - Genesis Revisited And others. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 16:56:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23132; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:56:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:56:19 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 13:54:32 -1000 Subject: Re: Mini Romag test great ! From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904112013.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"TLbL-.0.Lf5.ZQJ4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Somebody set me straight on this please? I'm totally not understanding what's the deal here. What's the interest in the polarity of the pulse? Why is it notable that it's mostly positive? Couldn't you just diode-rectify a pulse of whatever mixed polarity anyway? And wouldn't the thing just push back on the moving magnet in the normal way in any case if the coil was actually trying to drive a load? Stupid in magnetics, - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 17:04:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25786; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:03:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:03:11 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:06:13 -0400 Message-ID: <19990412000613375.AAA256@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"CjXVG.0.pI6.-WJ4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You wrote: >I have tried to determine the reality, or otherwise, of the Sciex scooter as >reported by the Sunday Times, but all leads are dead. I can't seem to track >down the Sciex Corporation or Mr Takahashi and his YT magnets. Nor have I >found a Michael Laughton of the London University. So this is why I ask >again if anyone in freenrg knows anything more about the Takahashi motor or >done any work on one. My references are > >a copy of the Sunday Times article dated 10-12-95 posted to the net >http://explorepub.com/articles/beardon/overunity.html >http://www.hsv.com/writers/bearden/flash/flash.htm > > >Trevor >I live in the Seattle area. >My phone number is 425 335 4394 Hi Trevor, Mark Goldes of MPI was Takahashi's representative in the US. Their office was in California a few years ago when reports of a thin film superconducter developed by MPI was being published. Wow, this is weird. I was looking for my file on Goldes, and I couldn't find it. It's over an inch thick, and I've called the guy a couple of times. I knew I had his address on my website, so I brought that up and spent and hour looking for it there. No Joy! I knew they used to have a website on the internet, so I started running searches. After three searches that didn't come up with anything on MPI or Goldes, I finally ran across this on the INE website. Thanks Patrick! Magnetic Power Inc. The Joint Venture partner with Sciex (UK) for Takahashi supermagnets and supermotors in North America. Sebastopol, CA. Contact Mark Goldes, TEL 707-829-9391, FAX 707-829-1002. Let us know the latest news if you call them, OK? -Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 17:05:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26652; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:04:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:04:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: bilb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:04:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pXpgf.0.LW6.dYJ4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:45:05 -0700 From: James DeMeo Reply-To: obrl-news@lists.village.virginia.edu To: *OBRL_News Subject: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics Orgone Biophysical Research Lab http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm Forwarded News Item Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups ********** From: Jacques Benveniste Subject: Re: What's New for Apr 02, 1999 Cc: My letter below answers the following piece from whatsnew@aps.org the on-line bulletin of the American Physical Society: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 2 Apr 99 Washington, DC 5. 1999 PIGASUS AWARDS ANNOUNCED BY TELEPATHY ON APRIL FIRST. The James Randi Educational Foundation bestowed yet another honor on Jacques Benveniste, the only person to win the Ig Nobel prize twice (WN 9 Oct 98). Benveniste transferred the digitized memory of homeopathic water via the internet from Paris to an ordinary bottle of water in Albuquerque, NM. The coveted flying pig trophy was sent to Benveniste via psychokinesis. No word yet on whether he received it. More on the Pigasus awards next week. THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Robert L. Park, James Randi and anybody concerned: This is to confirm that "I had a dream" last night picturing the psychokinetic transfer from Randi of the flying (guinea) pig trophy. Does this mean I can soon expect Randi's check for the $1.1-million? I would turn it down anyhow since my dream became a nightmare when Randi changed his name to Russki and insisted in greeting me the usual Russian way. Yech! Now what is this nonsense about "digitized memory of homeopathic water via the Internet from Paris to an ordinary bottle of water in Albuquerque"? Are you deliberately making up rumors or are you so unprofessional that you don't bother to check your sources? What is also very remarkable among such s(k)eptics as yourself is your monomaniac obsession with homeopathy. I almost expect such s(k)eptics to launch a campaign to close cocktail bars and outlaw Lewinski-ism on the grounds that both activities too closely mimic the shaking procedures of homeopaths. I have no idea what "homeopathic water" is. What we did in 1996 with the Laboratory at Northwestern University is about as close to your description as Mouton Rothschild 1982 is to Pepsi 1999. The US lab recorded, using our device, 29 biological activities (acetylcholine and ovalbumin) as against controls (plain water, dextran), and e-mailed the resulting files blind. We replayed the files to "naive" water and then applied the then "informed" water to sensitive biological systems and were able to identify the files correctly in all cases with the differences being highly significant: digital-Ova, (% variation of isolated heart coronary flow +/- 1 SD), 24.0 +/- 1.4 (n = 30); digital-water 4.4 +/- 0.3 (n = 58); p = 4.5 e-17. UNLESS YOU DISQUALIFY YOURSELF AS A SCIENTIST, YOU SHOULD COMMENT ON THESE NUMBERS AND NOTHING ELSE. Any scientist who lets his feelings overcome scientific data is, by definition, unfit for his job. The question for a proper critic must be: "What's wrong with the experimental procedure and the numbers quoted above?" The posting of my presentation at the 1997 FASEB meeting is available on our site www.digibio.com . Since then, I have heard many comments like "ha, ha, ha!" and "He is cuckoo," but I still await a genuine scientific debate on these results. Science should condemn ridicule as a form of censorship, yet that path seems normal from Randi and those Taliban-like skeptics and other ignoble gangs who show little desire to understand anything they were not taught in Elementary School. It is rather pathetic when a group of self-appointed vigilantes, presumably scientists, shoot at random upon anything that moves. The epitome of arrogant absurdity was reached by a "bullet in his own foot" specialist, D. Herscbach, a member of the ignorant "Noble" jury, who "finds Benveniste's claims hard to reconcile with what we know about molecules" (Nature, 395, 535, 1998). That sentence is the perfect negation of the very scientific research which is supposed to be Herscbach's job. Anybody sensible and aware of science history should understand that the fundamental AIM of scientific research IS to unveil new facts and build new theories provisionally in conflict with "what we know." In fact, it's these skeptics' obsession with homeopathy that blinds and deafens them. The worst things that have happened to mankind have taken place when preconceived ideologies paved the way for dogmatism and totalitarianism. J. Benveniste ********** OBRL News is a product of the non-profit Orgone Biophysical Research Lab Greensprings Research and Educational Center PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm demeo@mind.net Building upon the discoveries of the late, great natural scientist, Dr. Wilhelm Reich To subscribe to OBRL-News, send the message: subscribe obrl-news to the following address: Majordomo@lists.village.virginia.edu To unsubscribe, or change to a new email address, firstly: unsubscribe obrl-news to the same address above. Then re-subscribe with your new address. subscribe obrl-news From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 17:13:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA30341; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:12:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:12:57 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:11:14 -1000 Subject: Re: High K dielectrics? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904112029.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"yTwL62.0.wP7.9gJ4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Kyle - >Those would work, but where can these ceramics be purchased from? Look for ceramic transducers, particularly those used for ultrasonic work. Thomas Register, etc. I've looked for these before and you can fins the titanates and zirconates there. BTW Harvey, that wax mix you made that is both magnetic and dielectric is pretty interesting. If you cast one of those in a strong electric field, you'd have the king of refrigerator magnets - a magnetelectret that would stick to anything! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 17:21:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA32548; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:16:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:16:58 -0700 Message-ID: <37113A4E.6CAC1E76@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:12:05 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: MINIROMAG, ADDRESS PLEASE ! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3xEJM2.0.Sy7.wjJ4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Please, someone tell me the web address of the MiniRomag. Thanks. William Beaty wrote: > On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > If it is true, that you can just move > > a magnet 90 degrees "wrong" polarised > > through a coil and it still generates > > a usable positive induction pulse, > > which can be used without any drag by > > powering a load via a diode, > > I guess you have "positively violated" > > the Lenz law ! > > But.. but... the Romag is very similar to a conventional generator! A > conventional method to construct a polyphase AC generator is to spin a PM > magnet within an iron ring, and wind three coils on the ring. (This might > even be a Tesla patent(?), since Tesla did use this geometry in some of > his devices) The field from the magnet runs through the ring (axially > through the coils,) just like a conventional generator, and as the fields > change, you get normal AC. Think of the generator as being several > electromagnets with ends touching. The flux can still enter through the > side of one inactive coil, pass through an active coil, then exit through > the side of another inactive coil. > > After looking at this www.magneticenergy website, several things spring to > mind: > > - Absolutely wonderful that the inventor is not being secretive. > The "normal" situation is that the inventor wishes to keep their > valuable discoveries proprietary in an attempt to maximize monetary > income (although secrecy always seems to have the opposite effect > where F/E devices are involved.) > > - Have these devices been built, and shown to display effects which > violate conventional theory? I've seen complicated plans in the > past which were "channeled information", and had never been actually > built. The proof is in the pudding, not in the complexity or > precision details of the recipe. > > - Have the F/E devices been operated in "stand alone" mode? If the > device puts out massive excess energy, it is easy to close the > loop. If the F/E behavior is determined by measurement (or even > worse, only predicted by the inventor's theory), then it is possibly > mistaken. Closed-loop operation removes most possible mistakes. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 17:31:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04570; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:30:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:30:58 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Machiavellian resistance and suppressed history Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:34:00 -0400 Message-ID: <19990412003400984.AAA121@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"7DhB-3.0.J71.1xJ4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill wrote: >The Skeptics are forgotten, true, but there's another less positive aspect >to this which is very important. I've met people on sci.physics WHO ARE >CERTAIN THAT EINSTEIN WAS NEVER ATTACKED! In my opinion this is a *very* >serious problem in modern science: scientists "modify history" in an >attempt to cling to a false vision where science never makes huge, >embarassing blunders, and where science always proceeds by calm, rational >expansion of the current thinking. Hi Bill! The report that Einstein was never attacked was news to me, too. In fact, I have dim memories of watching a movie on TV, where Albert had presented his ideas to a shocked group of physicists for the first time. They did a little "pooh-poohing", and then five minutes later, flash bulbs were popping, and Albert was getting some award! I think a lot of the blame should be placed on Hollywood's romanticizing, and their own use of Special Relativity with regards to timeframes. I've seen Hollywood's biographical treatment of Edison, too, and I know that most of that was purely made up. Hollywood won't touch Tesla at all, and he was one of the most significant people of that century! Of course, there is also the fact that some of the work that Eintein took credit for had already been done by Heavyside, but what the hell, we all know that me and Al Gore invented fire, and as soon as the historians get that one straight, I'll be happy. (Actually, Al just held the paper, I'm the one that lit it, but I like to humor him.) -Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 17:40:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA07058; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:39:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:39:50 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:38:03 -1000 Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904112056.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"xXAkW3.0.Ak1.L3K4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sergei - >20MV??? It's a full garbage! >Can you present to yourselves this awful voltage practically? > >(1.4MV is enough to discharges via 5 meters of dry air!) On an aircraft's outer surface, the output of a 20MV generator would be getting ionically swept away pretty damn fast. They'd need some very high power to keep up with it. Supposedly the MHD flamejet generators using the plane's engines provide the power. But basically, I don't believe it either. I used to think that the B-2 had some really special goodies in it, but not anymore. I'm going with the theory that it's just a nice Trojan Horse for funding: we got a cool looking stealthy plastic bomber. Sort of a decoy or 'working fake' in a sense - a real plane that can fly and drop bombs, but that's all. So how much money does it take to build a plane like that? The whole homebuilt plane industry went over to composites years ago because it was *cheaper* and *faster* than traditional methods - less money on both counts. And sometimes it was wise to put in some panels of sheet metal to make a radar reflector the better for air traffic control and other aircraft to see you in your less-than $15,000 greater-than 300KPH toy. And yet they charge us a gazillion dollars for those B-2s. I'm sure there's a percentage of corruption in the military contractors and their projects that some might want to point to in order to account for the losses, but I think maybe there's enough money left over to loft a small fleet of huge silent lurkey black triangular things, if you know what I mean. A billion dollars is still a lot of money. That's where the electrical goodies and strange powerplants went, IMO. And speaking of silent powerful generators, what was that Russian nuke electric generator? TOPAZ? Something like that used to drive the high powered radar on naval observation satellites, right? My guess is that it would not be politically correct or even "legal' to fly a nuclear powered plane, so we'd better not tell anyone about it! ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 17:43:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08382; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:42:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:42:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37112535.E0945F52@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:41:57 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Garry, can you check this out and tell me what you think? References: <199904112336.BAA29384@ns.b.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rOT8M2.0.p22.66K4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > At 10:18 11.04.99 -0700, William Beaty wrote: > >On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > >> If it is true, that you can just move > >> a magnet 90 degrees "wrong" polarised > >> through a coil and it still generates > >> a usable positive induction pulse, > >> which can be used without any drag by > >> powering a load via a diode, > >> I guess you have "positively violated" > >> the Lenz law ! > > > >But.. but... the Romag is very similar to a conventional generator! A > >conventional method to construct a polyphase AC generator is to spin a PM > >magnet within an iron ring, and wind three coils on the ring. (This might > >even be a Tesla patent(?), since Tesla did use this geometry in some of > >his devices) The field from the magnet runs through the ring (axially > >through the coils,) just like a conventional generator, and as the fields > >change, you get normal AC. Think of the generator as being several > >electromagnets with ends touching. The flux can still enter through the > >side of one inactive coil, pass through an active coil, then exit through > >the side of another inactive coil. > > > ...snip... > > Hi Bill and All, > > please have a look again at: > > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/mromexp.htm > > I am just exited by the new experiment Naudin has done, > not the Romag itsself. > > If Naudin´s experiment is true, that he can capture the positive > BACK-EMF induction pulse via a diode and does not get any > drag onto the rotor this way, this is really the way to build > an overunity generator. > You can extract this positive pulse (and just this positive pulse > only !) and drawing massive power from it, > without loading and raising the > input torque required to rotate the rotor with the magnet on it ! > > So I guess, if this is not a measurement error of JL Naudin > one could build a generator which has the same input power needed > for running in idle mode or when drawing lots of power out of the output coils ! > > Let´s make an example: > > To run the rotor at 2500 RPM idle will require maybe 3 Watts of input power > to the DC motor. (without loading the output coils in any way, coil connections > are open !)(just to overcome all friction losses) > > Now short out the positive EMF spike via a diode and a load resistor. > This load resistor might convert the EMF spike to about 10 Watts of heat, > but the rotor DC motor will still only need 3.2 Watts of input power > to remain at 2500 RPM. > If this would be true, we would have an "incremental efficiency" of > 5000 % ! > (coils internal DC resistance not counted in = 0 Ohm for easier calculation) > > I hope that the experiment from Naudin holds true, cause this would be > a sure and easy way to generate overunity output from a generator. > It would be the easiest way known to me to violate the Lenz Law ! > > Regards, Stefan. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 17:43:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08502; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:43:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:43:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37112553.66965AB1@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:42:27 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mark@plug-in.com.br, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gilgamesh ... References: <199904112347.UAA32321@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hUVEv2.0.l42.Z6K4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com thanks Marcelo, I've read some of those in the past... I find Sitchin takes a LOT of free license when describing his findings and he has a real creative way of interpreting something simple and turning a bowl of fruit into a hyperdimensional improbability drive, BUT some of his stuff is very interesting and he's one of the few out there thats done any where near the level of research into the vast store of dusty tablets that have been mostly neglected. Thanks for the tip. I'll take another pass at some of the books you mentioned. cheers! Don Marcelo Puhl wrote: > > > I think there is a book out somewhere on the interesting science clues in > > the Bible. I don't have the reference, and can't remember where in the Bible > > it is. Check Epic of Gilgamesh for the tree story. I don't have it either. > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > > > I would suggest the books from Zecharia Sitchin. > > - The 12nd. Planet > - The Lost Realms > - Genesis Revisited > > And others. > > --- > Marcelo Puhl > mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 17:53:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11848; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:52:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:52:45 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:50:56 -1000 Subject: Re: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics (fwd) From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904112109.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"LPd8G1.0.zu2.TFK4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill - >From: Jacques Benveniste >Subject: Re: What's New for Apr 02, 1999 >Cc: > >My letter below answers the following piece from whatsnew@aps.org the >on-line bulletin of the American Physical Society: This is another one that scares the s*** out of me. If you can e-mail chemical responses, you an also broadcast them via LF/VLF/ELF transmitters. It's absolutely mind-boggling. Where's did I leave my tinfoil hat?! This is another one of your gives-mankind-wings but pushes-him-off-a-cliff things. The benefits, and the possible downsides, seem to be absolutely enormous. It's medicines or poisons. Prozac in elevator music? LSD in rock? Peyote in religious hymns? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 18:11:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18534; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:11:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:11:26 -0700 Message-ID: <37114B4B.C255C62B@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:24:27 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Weber Electrodynamics References: <199904110012.CAA01908@ns.b.vossnet.de> <3710AF0A.A6D0E904@servtech.com> <3.0.6.16.19990411130619.23a72bc6@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nzQyj1.0.VX4.-WK4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi Bob and all, > At 11:18 AM 4/11/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > >I just finished reading through Andre Assis' book "Weber's Electrodynamics" > > > Thanks for this review. I will look for this book. > The test mentioned in your other post with a ferromagnetic rod on a current > rail seems easy to duplicate and interesting. > Have you thought of testing it? Do you know any reason why AC could not be > used (from a 1 turn transformer secondary)? > > Have you done any more experiments with Ampere current elements? > The only experimentation I have done is to reproduce the Marinov motor. I was able to explain the Marinov motor (to my satisfaction) by using Ampere's force equation between two current elements. Aside from this, most of my "investigations" is theoretical (mainly because the cost of the experiments I want to do are very costly. > > >theory.) You can also derive Ampere's force law between two current > >elements. (Ampere's electrodynamics is presented in Graneau's book > >"Newtonian > >Electrodynamics".) > > > >Here are some interesting quotes from the book. The author is talking > >about test charges inside a sphere which is at a high electrical potential. > > > >"... We do not know of any experiment which has ever been performed > >in order to test this prediction. It is possible that some charges may > >behave as if they had a negative inertial mass in some regions of high > >electrostatic potential. We can not rule out this possibility only because > >it > >is unusual. ..." > > > >" This prediction of negative or zero effective inertial mass was based > >not only on Weber's electrodynamics but also on Newtonian mechanics...." > > > Normally a sphere and the region inside it is thought of equal-potential. > One can see the effect of this potential (vs. an electric field) on an > electron with the sphere/region charged to 1.4MV as an inertial mass of > 1+/-1? This sounds very interesting too, don't know who can test it, > though. Wonder if it is related to some of T.T. Brown's effects? > -Dave I was also thinking this might be relevant to T.T. Brown's work. And to Searl's work in that Searl claims that once the surface of his devices reached a very high potential the device showed inverse gravity effects. Could it be that the inertial mass of the electrons (or the whole atom) of whatever was inside his device obtained a negative value and caused the device to rise? I don't know. the above is the first electromagnetic theory that seems to indicate it might be possible. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 19:35:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA06627; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:34:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:34:45 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Noise Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:37:47 -0400 Message-ID: <19990412023747531.AAA284@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"wRKfs3.0.Rd1.4lL4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Elliot wrote: > The situation you are describing is harder to eliminate the noise >from since it is within the bandwidth that you require and it is not a >constant level or patern. The best method for this stuff is to do a >Fourier Transform of the sound. This process (in case you are not familiar >with it) decomposes a complex waveform (bark) into it's sine wave >components, which ca then be cancelled with sine waves 180 degrees out of >phase or can be removed before rerecording. > Unfortunatey this requirest you do digitise your recording so it >can be processed via an FFT (fast or discreete fourier transform) >algorithm. Ths is a discreete summation aproximation to the continuous >integral you are required to perform to evaluate the FT. > > Since you now have the recording in the digital domain, decomposed >into it's frequency components simply eliminate the frequencies >assosciated with the sounds considered to be noise. Ths ma be tricky since >you could have certain frequencies common to both noise and signal so by >analysing the waveform before and after, and correcting for changes >between those points, also using youe ear as the final judge you should be >on the way. > > Hope you have access to FFT hardware :) > >Elliot Years ago, mid to late 80's, Steve Ciarcia had a column in Byte magazine called Circuit Cellar that described something very similar. It was an EEG device that you could hook up to your computer, actually, but many of the concepts were the same. He also published a fast Fourier transform algorithm, I believe in BASIC, that went along with it. Of course, I thought this was pretty cool at the time, and wanted to do it, but I was living in Germany, and had to leave the country. It's just one of a million projects that never got finished because of my lack of control over my surroundings. I donated 5 years worth of very expensive and difficult to obtain books and magazines to a local English library there because they just wouldn't fit into my backpack. I still think it's a cool project though, and I may get around to it some day. Steve has published a number of his projects in a couple of books that you can still get. I don't know if that one is in there, but you could ask. You could also check your local library to see if they carry the old Byte. His current website is: http://www.circuitcellar.com/ I would think that if you could separate the wavelengths from each other, you should be able to write a program that identifies and cancels just the noise and keeps the actual signal, even if it occupied the same bandwidth. It would not be easy, but it would be a good exercise. Maybe someone with filtration algorthm experience could point you in the right direction. I'm sure if you searched the back issues of Dr. Dobbs or something like that, you could come up with some code that is publically available. There is so much stuff available now though, that I don't know about, that you may find some hardware/software combo already built that is ideal, and doesn't cost much. -Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 20:35:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA23177; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:35:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:35:09 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics (fwd) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:38:11 -0400 Message-ID: <19990412033811953.AAA121@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"Jm-yj2.0.2g5.jdM4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick wrote: >Bill - > >>From: Jacques Benveniste >>Subject: Re: What's New for Apr 02, 1999 >>Cc: >> >>My letter below answers the following piece from whatsnew@aps.org the >>on-line bulletin of the American Physical Society: > >This is another one that scares the s*** out of me. If you can e-mail >chemical responses, you an also broadcast them via LF/VLF/ELF transmitters. >It's absolutely mind-boggling. Where's did I leave my tinfoil hat?! > >This is another one of your gives-mankind-wings but pushes-him-off-a-cliff >things. The benefits, and the possible downsides, seem to be absolutely >enormous. It's medicines or poisons. Prozac in elevator music? LSD in rock? >Peyote in religious hymns? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, This idea has been around for a while. There is a chiropractor in Australia who has been using this technique for over a decade to cure disease. He is originally from Greece, but when he announced the news of what the device could do, he was driven from the country by threats to his life. The threats came from multinational drug companies. There are other applications such as the water memory used in the experimental supercomputers (look at quantum computing), the way prions proliferate, and the formation of clathrates, that seem to bear out or support the general theory that this guy is utilizing. You are right about the negative uses possibilities. Imagine a longdistance company telemarketeer that can make you sign up by making you feel good over the phone? Imagine a credit card company collection department that can give you The Fear over the phone? Imagine, all kinds of things. I've got my homemade Kevlar underwear on, now where is that tin-foil hat? I think I left it in Seattle. ARGGG!!! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 11 22:30:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14550; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:29:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:29:47 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <51deb57.2442de99@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:28:57 EDT Subject: Re: MINIROMAG, ADDRESS PLEASE ! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: energeon@microtec.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA14526 Resent-Message-ID: <"nGrVQ2.0.BZ3.BJO4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dans un courrier daté du 12/04/99 02:18:29é), energeon@microtec.net a écrit : > Please, someone tell me the web address of the MiniRomag. Thanks. > Look at this : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/mromexp.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 02:22:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA19364; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:22:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:22:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3711BBC6.40679A61@erie.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:24:22 -0400 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Free Electricity Machine Demonstration References: <3711B85E.F086AC78@erie.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AEDD797D080C76EED74EE460" Resent-Message-ID: <"TSKON1.0.Kk4.yiR4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --------------AEDD797D080C76EED74EE460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all list members: The following message was forwarded to me. With the Year 2000 rapidly approaching, these guys are coming out of the woodwork. I would be interested in any comments. Thank You. Regards, Norm Biss Erie, Pa. 4-12-99 normpems@erie.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Kurt > To: "Un-Disclosed Receipients - To stop simply reply > \"unsubscribe\" on subject line" > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 9:11 AM > Subject: Free Electricity Machine Demonstration > > Free Electricity Machine Demonstration > > Newfoundland, New Jersey > Starting at 1:00 PM on April 10th and repeating each > Saturday in April. > Let me know if you want to go. I must register you > as my guest 2 days in advance. > > To Learn More > > ttp://www.america.com/~knallie/free_electricity_message.htm > > http://www.america.com/~knallie > > Email me at: knallie@america.com > > For Freedom, Free Enterprise, and Free Electricity, > Kurt. > -- > See my Freedom and Technology Forum page: > http://www.america.com/~knallie > email me at: knallie@america.com > --------------AEDD797D080C76EED74EE460 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
To all list members:

The following message was forwarded to me.
With the Year 2000 rapidly approaching, these guys are coming out of the woodwork.
I would be interested in any comments.

Thank You.

Regards,
Norm Biss
Erie, Pa.
4-12-99

normpems@erie.net
 
 
 
 
 

         -----Original Message-----
From: Kurt <knallie@america.com>
To: "Un-Disclosed Receipients - To stop simply reply \"unsubscribe\" on subject line" <knallie@america.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 9:11 AM
Subject: Free Electricity Machine Demonstration

Free Electricity Machine Demonstration

Newfoundland, New Jersey
Starting at 1:00 PM on April 10th and repeating each Saturday in April.
      Let me know if you want to go.  I must register you as my guest 2 days in advance.

To Learn More
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Kurt.
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--------------AEDD797D080C76EED74EE460-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 03:01:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA12221; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:00:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:00:43 -0700 Message-ID: <3711A7FD.4D6BB94D@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:59:57 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Paranormal - God module, rejuvenation, early mans resonance,Real Noah, the flood References: <199904112000.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XfojE.0.s-2.BHS4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick, no I didnt know he was into Krishna as for the book refs, thanks will check this out.. been meaning to get Cremo's book for a while now. cheers! Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Don - > > As to a "seemingly agnostic Michael Cremo", you should know (maybe you > already do) that he is a follower of the teachings of Bahktivedanta, founder > of the "Krishnas" - yes, the 'airport people'. His partner Thompson is as > well, and is also the author of the excellent "Alien Identities" which > examines modern UFO lore with respect to the old literature out of India. > IMO anyone with an interest in in a complete alternative view of where we've > been and what's going on here should read these three books: Bramley's "Gods > of Eden", Thompson's "Alien Identities", and Cremo & Thompson's "Forbidden > Arehaeology". I don't look at these as oracles of absolute answers, but for > those who think there isn't enough evidence to draw some pretty startling > general conclusions with a pretty good confidence level, check these out. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 04:25:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA26941; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:24:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:24:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990412142356.0092e100@mail.bahnhof.se> X-Sender: david@mail.bahnhof.se X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:23:56 +0100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: David Jonsson Subject: Re: Weber Electrodynamics Cc: gravitics1@aol.com In-Reply-To: <37114B4B.C255C62B@servtech.com> References: <199904110012.CAA01908@ns.b.vossnet.de> <3710AF0A.A6D0E904@servtech.com> <3.0.6.16.19990411130619.23a72bc6@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hYIgB3.0.sa6.YVT4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 21:24 1999-04-11 -0400, you wrote: > >Dave Dameron wrote: > >> Hi Bob and all, >> At 11:18 AM 4/11/99 -0400, you wrote: >> > >> >I just finished reading through Andre Assis' book "Weber's Electrodynamics" >> > >> Thanks for this review. I will look for this book. This book is available at the main webstores. Its cheapest at books.com http://www.books.com/scripts/view.exe?sid~7sRyoREtc2PgBb7/isbn~0792331370 but it is not cheap at all, $125 ! I just want the calculus abot the negative mass but it is too expensive to buy. Can someone scan the pages and send them by email or fax? > >Here are some interesting quotes from the book. The author is talking > >about test charges inside a sphere which is at a high electrical potential. > > > >"... We do not know of any experiment which has ever been performed > >in order to test this prediction. It is possible that some charges may > >behave as if they had a negative inertial mass in some regions of high > >electrostatic potential. We can not rule out this possibility only because > >it > >is unusual. ..." > > > >" This prediction of negative or zero effective inertial mass was based > >not only on Weber's electrodynamics but also on Newtonian mechanics...." Maybe the potential of the earth can explain why we have a difference in mass between the positive and negative charge carriers? What absolute potential does this imply for earth? There is a similarity to electrogravitics. In Tom Valones book Electrogravitics Systems there is a chapter about negative mass but it is not as easily read as Assis' book is supposed to be. You can get Valones book at books.com for only $12 http://www.books.com/scripts/view.exe?sid~7sRyoREtc2PgBb7/isbn~0964107007 David David Jonsson Phone +46-8-740 02 81 Fax +46-18-24 51 56 Stockholm Cellular GSM +46-706-339487 E-mail David@Bahnhof.se Sweden http://www.bahnhof.se/~david Postgiro 499 40 54-7 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 06:15:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA20575; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:13:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:13:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:13:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics (fwd) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <19990412033811953.AAA121@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"iW_jp1.0.K15.n5V4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Michael T Huffman wrote: > > Rick wrote: > >Bill - > > > >>From: Jacques Benveniste > >>Subject: Re: What's New for Apr 02, 1999 > >>Cc: > >> > >>My letter below answers the following piece from whatsnew@aps.org the > >>on-line bulletin of the American Physical Society: > > > >This is another one that scares the s*** out of me. If you can e-mail > >chemical responses, you an also broadcast them via LF/VLF/ELF transmitters. > >It's absolutely mind-boggling. Where's did I leave my tinfoil hat?! > > > >This is another one of your gives-mankind-wings but pushes-him-off-a-cliff > >things. The benefits, and the possible downsides, seem to be absolutely > >enormous. It's medicines or poisons. Prozac in elevator music? LSD in rock? > >Peyote in religious hymns? > > > >- Rick Monteverde > >Honolulu, HI > > Hi Rick, > > This idea has been around for a while. There is a chiropractor in > Australia who has been using this technique for over a decade to cure > disease. He is originally from Greece, but when he announced the news of > what the device could do, he was driven from the country by threats to his > life. The threats came from multinational drug companies. There are other > applications such as the water memory used in the experimental > supercomputers (look at quantum computing), the way prions proliferate, and > the formation of clathrates, that seem to bear out or support the general > theory that this guy is utilizing. You are right about the negative uses > possibilities. Imagine a longdistance company telemarketeer that can make > you sign up by making you feel good over the phone? Imagine a credit card > company collection department that can give you The Fear over the phone? > Imagine, all kinds of things. > > I've got my homemade Kevlar underwear on, now where is that tin-foil hat? I > think I left it in Seattle. ARGGG!!! > > Knuke > > Michael T. Huffman Reminds me of an album that came out around 1975 called "Sea Stones" by Phil Lesh (bass player for the Grateful Dead) and Ned Lagin (engineer). The idea was that the album, when played fairly loud, would give the listener the feeling he was stoned on marijuana. We did some tests with it at the time (I was in college) and discovered the interesting result that people who had smoked marijuana would get the feeling when listening to it, but people who never had smoked marijuana didn't notice anything unusual. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 08:57:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02488; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:56:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:56:00 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics (fwd) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:59:06 -0400 Message-ID: <19990412155906500.AAA300@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"5b_7y1.0.nc.GUX4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Reminds me of an album that came out around 1975 called "Sea Stones" by >Phil Lesh (bass player for the Grateful Dead) and Ned Lagin (engineer). >The idea was that the album, when played fairly loud, would give the >listener the feeling he was stoned on marijuana. > >We did some tests with it at the time (I was in college) and discovered >the interesting result that people who had smoked marijuana would get the >feeling when listening to it, but people who never had smoked marijuana >didn't notice anything unusual. > >Zack Hi Zack, Try and get a copy of anything by a Seattle band called Hovercraft. I haven't heard their recorded stuff, but their live performances were amazing. They played with a German guy name Holgar Chugay (sp?) who did a lot of work with Eno and Fripp. At the venue that I saw them, there were also a number of "sonic sculpturists" that could induce some pretty amazing biological effects as well. The thing about that whole experience that really impressed me though, was the clientele. They were very different from the normal Seattle rock band crowd. Very intelligent, urbane, hip, and wealthy. Another band that was sonically interesting was Modest Mouse. As an aside, a very good friend of mine, Dr. Tom Little designed the Greatful Dead's first computer-controlled sound board. His Phd was from Berkley in Neuropharmacology. Happy listening:) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 09:30:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16022; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:29:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:29:16 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:28:25 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:44:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? In-reply-to: <1.5.4.32.19990410195604.015db17c@popd.ix.netcom.com> To: freenrg-l , vortexb-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:28:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1997ZXWJHTDMR X400-MTS-identifier: [;52822121409991/3658654@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"g-2hX1.0.9w3.RzX4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com All, It is always interesting to observe the plants "intelectually" critique the gardener, especially from or about the weeds. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >>***{That's an interesting point, Dennis. Many survivors of the Holocaust >>reached the conclusion that there cannot be a God, on the grounds that if >>God were to exist, he would not have permitted such an event. On the other >>hand, Rabbi Menachem Schneerson believed that pogroms were God's method of >>strengthening the Jewish people, by culling out the unfit. The unfit, >>presumably, were those Jews who were dumb enough to remain in Germany after >>Hitler took power. By the same reasoning, I suppose God is now culling out >>dumb Kosovars! (I wonder what he has in store for people who have remained >>in America under Clinton. :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** >Your answers are always kind of scary Mitchell. Maybe the pogrom phenomenon >is God's way of saying that we should never underestimate the level of self >annihilating stupidity that is attainable on this planet. The test was >probably for those who stood by and watched to get up and do something to >help the victims. >Anyways, I was considering human psychological and physiological structure >in terms of energy fields. The complexity is such that they probably >represent very high frequency energy patterns. Compared to inert >interstellar objects, life forms probably have a much greater energy >density. At the very least, we must be giving the universe texture, >therefore greater complexity, therefore increased internal energy pressure? >I therefore DOUBT that a higher level being would want anything to happen >that might make his backyard shrink or be any less interesting. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 10:03:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28145; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:00:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:00:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37122396.99AF9476@harti.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:47:18 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CHRIS KUELZOW CC: "Naudin, Jean-Louis" , Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy Subject: Re: Interesting Finding X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <3710CD42.9DEDF1A3@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-r8ad.0.gt6.2RY4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com CHRIS KUELZOW wrote: > > Hello, > In the excitement of the moments just prior to blowing up my stator (yes > again), I observed something very interesting. FYI visit my site and > look at today's page. > > Regards > Chris Kuelzow Hi Chris, just seeing negative input current only is fascinating ! But you probably have first to see, what is going on in your circuit . Did you try scope measurements yet ? Do you have a circuit diagram of your HV supply ? How does your amperemeter react to big RF bursts from the sparks ? What kind of amperemeter is it ? Maybe the circuit and/or amperemeter are saturated by the RF spikes ?! What materials did you use for the brushes and the commutator contacts ? this also plays an important role ! Please let us know. Thanks and good luck in reparing your coils ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 11:42:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30766; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:41:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:41:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199904121840.NAA14083@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:38:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eWQgU1.0.dW7.AvZ4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey, Bill, That's good, but I know of some intellectual trees. When I was a boy, I rode down a certain country road a lot, and I observed on occasion the pruning of trees, by the county, for the sake of overhead wires. After a few trimmings, the trees quit growing limbs under the wires. They concluded that it was a waste of time and materials. Those trees are still there and have not been trimmed for 40 some years. Interesting..huh ? Joe Portman ================================ ---------- > From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 > To: freenrg-l ; vortexb-l > Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:44 AM > > All, > > It is always interesting to observe the plants "intelectually" critique > > the gardener, especially from or about the weeds. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 11:47:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00418; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:46:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:46:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199904121846.NAA01407@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics (fwd) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:44:12 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iE2vT1.0.R6.9-Z4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com When you modify the brain with drugs, such as alcohol, it writes new operating software. If you drink, you must relearn driving, for example. If you are a dart champ while drinking, you can't play good when sober, unless you give equal time to the 2 conditions. I wonder if this co-relates to the listening with or without pot. Just a little trivia...Joe Portman ======================= ---------- > From: Michael T Huffman > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics (fwd) > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:59 AM > > > >Reminds me of an album that came out around 1975 called "Sea Stones" by > >Phil Lesh (bass player for the Grateful Dead) and Ned Lagin (engineer). > >The idea was that the album, when played fairly loud, would give the > >listener the feeling he was stoned on marijuana. > > > >We did some tests with it at the time (I was in college) and discovered From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 11:51:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02469; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:50:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:50:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199904121850.NAA14825@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics (fwd) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:48:08 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"z1muq1.0.Hc.s1a4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I want Viagra in city drinking water...duh.... Joe Portman ============ ---------- > From: Zack Widup > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: OBRL - Jacques Benveniste Responds to the Latest Smears from the So-Called Skeptics (fwd) > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 8:13 AM > > On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Michael T Huffman wrote: > > > > > Rick wrote: > > >Bill - > > > > > >>From: Jacques Benveniste > > >>Subject: Re: What's New for Apr 02, 1999 > > >>Cc: > > >> > > >>My letter below answers the following piece from whatsnew@aps.org the > > >>on-line bulletin of the American Physical Society: > > > > > >This is another one that scares the s*** out of me. If you can e-mail > > >chemical responses, you an also broadcast them via LF/VLF/ELF transmitters. > > >It's absolutely mind-boggling. Where's did I leave my tinfoil hat?! > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 12:04:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA09139; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:03:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:03:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199904121903.OAA16871@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Noise Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:01:12 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1A3q92.0.hE2.3Ea4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The old way is to graphically print it, go in and hand erase and or patch, then play back and record as desired. It's art...like the old days when they hand painted photos and cartoons. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Michael T Huffman > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Noise > Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 9:37 PM > > Elliot wrote: > > The situation you are describing is harder to eliminate the noise > >from since it is within the bandwidth that you require and it is not a > >constant level or patern. The best method for this stuff is to do a > >Fourier Transform of the sound. This process (in case you are From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 12:07:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10784; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:06:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:06:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199904121906.OAA03992@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:04:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2xXUf2.0.Pe2.5Ha4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Has anyone came up with a way to fold a paper B2 model ? ============================================= ---------- > From: Rick Monteverde > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... > Date: Saturday, January 02, 1999 7:38 PM > > Sergei - > > >20MV??? It's a full garbage! > >Can you present to yourselves this awful voltage practically? > > > >(1.4MV is enough to discharges via 5 meters of dry air!) > > > On an aircraft's outer surface, the output of a 20MV generator would be > getting ionically swept away pretty damn fast. They'd need some very high > power to keep up with it. Supposedly the MHD flamejet generators using the > plane's engines provide the power. But basically, I don't believe it either. > > > I used to think that the B-2 had some really special goodies in it, but not > anymore. I'm going with the theory that it's just a nice Trojan Horse for > funding: we got a cool looking stealthy plastic bomber. Sort of a decoy or > 'working fake' in a sense - a real plane that can fly and drop bombs, but > that's all. So how much money does it take to build a plane like that? The > whole homebuilt plane industry went over to composites years ago because it > was *cheaper* and *faster* than traditional methods - less money on both > counts. And sometimes it was wise to put in some panels of sheet metal to > make a radar reflector the better for air traffic control and other aircraft > to see you in your less-than $15,000 greater-than 300KPH toy. > > And yet they charge us a gazillion dollars for those B-2s. I'm sure there's > a percentage of corruption in the military contractors and their projects > that some might want to point to in order to account for the losses, but I > think maybe there's enough money left over to loft a small fleet of huge > silent lurkey black triangular things, if you know what I mean. A billion > dollars is still a lot of money. That's where the electrical goodies and > strange powerplants went, IMO. > > And speaking of silent powerful generators, what was that Russian nuke > electric generator? TOPAZ? Something like that used to drive the high > powered radar on naval observation satellites, right? My guess is that it > would not be politically correct or even "legal' to fly a nuclear powered > plane, so we'd better not tell anyone about it! ;) > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 12:50:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA26423; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:48:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:48:59 -0700 Message-ID: <37124D8B.9D684D74@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:46:19 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg Subject: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dkriM.0.lS6.hua4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, It appears the B2 bomber take off from New Mexico or from Missouri and take a trip to Yugoslavia and return back just drop bombs. Very interesting! This seems controversial while other war plane doing their jobs perfectly. Did anybody have any information about this plane? What do you think about it use nuclear or a kind of energy that we looking for? I hope my posting does not disrupt national security. :) Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 12:54:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA28033; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:53:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:53:52 -0700 Message-ID: <008101be851e$26833a40$415895d1@premio> Reply-To: "Gene Marlin" From: "Gene Marlin" To: Subject: (off-topic) Powerful Magnets Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:53:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"RaSkF1.0.sr6.Fza4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I figured that the Freenrg list would be a worthwhile place to ask this, because most devices the might generate free energy rely on magnets: Does anybody know of a relatively cheap source of "scrap" or broken pieces of rare-earth magnets? I'm looking for permanent magnets that are as strong as possible. Thanks, Gene From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 13:14:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02944; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:13:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:13:26 -0700 Message-ID: <19990412201340.7027.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:13:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wayne Decker Subject: Re: Fw: Free Electricity Machine Demonstration To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"HItYP3.0.uj.bFb4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks! With regard to the 'newest' free energy machine; Has the stench of Dennis Lee all over it; > If you would like to be a part of this great effort, > United Community Services of America is > accepting loan offers now.  > You need only put up $1000 on a $10,000 loan. > When a free electricity machine is installed on your > home making free electricity for you, and only then, > you provide the other 90% ($9000) of your loan. > The $1000 is good faith money to show you are > serious and intend to come up with the other > $9000 on delivery. > The term of the loan is one year, after which you > get all of your money back, plus you have had all > your electricity for free for that whole year. Then for > subsequent years, while each free electricity > machine you seed makes marketable power for > individuals and industry, you will receive $10,000 > annually, AND all your electricity will continue to be > FREE (up to 2166 KWh per month). That's 100% > on your investment annually, plus all your free > electricity !!!  We will arrange to sell all the extra > electricity produced by our machine, which is how > we can make this offer. Help, Mr. Wizard, time for this one to return to prison. --- Norm Biss wrote: > > To all list members: > > The following message was forwarded to me. > With the Year 2000 rapidly approaching, these guys > are > coming out of the woodwork. > I would be interested in any comments. > > Thank You. > > Regards, > Norm Biss > Erie, Pa. > 4-12-99 > > normpems@erie.net > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kurt > > To: "Un-Disclosed Receipients - To stop simply > reply > > \"unsubscribe\" on subject line" > > > Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 9:11 AM > > Subject: Free Electricity Machine Demonstration > > > > Free Electricity Machine Demonstration > > > > Newfoundland, New Jersey > > Starting at 1:00 PM on April 10th and repeating > each > > Saturday in April. > > Let me know if you want to go. I must > register you > > as my guest 2 days in advance. > > > > To Learn More > > > > > ttp://www.america.com/~knallie/free_electricity_message.htm > > > > http://www.america.com/~knallie > > > > Email me at: knallie@america.com > > > > For Freedom, Free Enterprise, and Free > Electricity, > > Kurt. > > -- > > See my Freedom and Technology Forum page: > > http://www.america.com/~knallie > > email me at: knallie@america.com > > >
 
To all list members:

The following message was forwarded to me.
With the Year 2000 rapidly approaching, these guys are coming out of the woodwork.
I would be interested in any comments.

Thank You.

Regards,
Norm Biss
Erie, Pa.
4-12-99

normpems@erie.net
 
 
 
 
 

         -----Original Message-----
From: Kurt <knallie@america.com>
To: "Un-Disclosed Receipients - To stop simply reply \"unsubscribe\" on subject line" <knallie@america.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 9:11 AM
Subject: Free Electricity Machine Demonstration

Free Electricity Machine Demonstration

Newfoundland, New Jersey
Starting at 1:00 PM on April 10th and repeating each Saturday in April.
      Let me know if you want to go.  I must register you as my guest 2 days in advance.

To Learn More
http://www.america.com/~knallie/free_electricity_message.htm

http://www.america.com/~knallie

Email me at: knallie@america.com

For Freedom,  Free Enterprise, and Free Electricity,
Kurt.
--
See my Freedom and Technology Forum page: http://www.america.com/~knallie
email me at: knallie@america.com
 

=== ================================= Please respond to jdecker@keelynet.com as I am writing from my work email of jwdatwork@yahoo.com.........thanks! ================================= _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 13:45:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23756; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:43:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:43:58 -0700 Message-ID: <37123ECB.A2034B6C@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:43:23 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? References: <199904121840.NAA14083@mw3.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k6pNq1.0.1p5.Dib4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Joe thats fascinating and reminds me of the experiment done byu Harold Saxton Burr where in the electrodynamic readings were taken of each tree in a segment of a forest, they were if I recall correctly being recorded real time, one tree was cut down and all the other trees spiked off the chart! Joe Portman wrote: > > Hey, Bill, > That's good, but I know of some intellectual trees. When I was a boy, I > rode down a certain country road a lot, and I observed on occasion the > pruning of trees, by the county, for the sake of overhead wires. After a > few trimmings, the trees quit growing limbs under the wires. They concluded > that it was a waste of time and materials. Those trees are still there and > have not been trimmed for 40 some years. Interesting..huh ? > Joe Portman > ================================ > > ---------- > > From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 > > To: freenrg-l ; vortexb-l > > Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? > > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:44 AM > > > > All, > > > > It is always interesting to observe the plants "intelectually" critique > > > > the gardener, especially from or about the weeds. > > > > Bill > > webriggs@concentric.net > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 14:11:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01427; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <371256BB.FED0EC70@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:25:31 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? References: <37124D8B.9D684D74@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zCdeF.0.CM.V_b4t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I found a good page http://www.bangalorenet.com/system1/chungw/stealth.html showing the plane is conventional on propulsion technology. hamdi ucar wrote: > > Hi, > > It appears the B2 bomber take off from New Mexico or from Missouri and take a trip to Yugoslavia and return back just drop bombs. Very interesting! This seems controversial while other war plane doing their jobs perfectly. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 16:14:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30188; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:13:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:13:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:10:40 -1000 Subject: Re: (off-topic) Powerful Magnets From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904121929.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"a-MDz2.0.bN7.Tud4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gene - re: surplus rare earth magnets: http://www.sciplus.com/ - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 17:13:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA13478; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:12:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:12:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199904130010.TAA10464@mercury.shreve.net> From: "Robert H. Calloway" To: "Garry Whitman" Cc: Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:58:32 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CjN0J.0.VI3.qle4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Gary, The main reason for the bearings on the running magnet is to help with the "cocking" problem of that magnet. This is the main problem with the design. When the motor turns, the magnet drags on the side of the wheel causing a lock up problem. If you could keep it straight, it would work great! Another effect that I havent mentioned is, take the wheel out of its support and set it on a 2 1/2 inch wide board about 8 foot long. Attach 2 rolls of pennies to the inside of the chaser magnet support. The wheel will roll by itself untill the running magnet cocks and drags on the side plate causing it to stop. The 2 rolls of pennies weight will cause the support to hang more vertical causing the running magnet to turn the whole wheel assembly down the track. Regards, Robert H. Calloway ---------- > From: Garry Whitman > To: Robert (motor) > Cc: Don the Rocket ; Don J. S, Adams > Subject: Hamster Cage Motor > Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 10:27 AM > > This looks like the best design of a permanent magnet motor that I've seen. > However I don't understand the use of the two stainless steel bearings. It > appears that the bottom magnet will be able to roll uphill with out > providing a torque to the cage. Then the weight of the runner magnet is > offset by the chaser magnet connection to the frame. Am I missing something. > Garry Whitman > whitman@brightok.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 18:25:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA03499; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:25:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:25:10 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:20:26 EDT Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Bmd2323@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"RpIBC2.0.Ws.rpf4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The B2 is no doubt refueled several times in flight. It is probably being flown from the US bases because they are the only ones properly equipped to maintain and repair the aircraft. Despite what many people may think, modern US military aircraft are not as reliable as they should be. Many of them needing almost an entire overhaul between flights. A problem, it seems, of awarding the contract to the lowest bidder. In fact, the only reason the US is probably using the B2 is so that the Air Force doesn't have to answer all kinds of annoying questions like , "If the B2 is so good why don't you use it?" when they ask Congress for more money next year. If they stood up and said that the B2 was a piece of crap (which seems to be an emerging consensus among many) and they wanted a better plane, there would be all kinds of uncomfortable questions asked about why in the hell we bought the damn thing to begin with. Since the B2 has become operational several things have been revealed about its short comings. One is that the you can't fly the thing during periods of high humidity as it will show up on radar, another is that thanks to the goofy radio signal put out by the engines any fool with a TV set tuned to the right channel can pick up interference from the thing. Then there's the fact that with the right radar gear you can pick up the distortions in the air cause by the jets passage. No doubt other problems with the aircraft will soon surface. We've already lost a stealth fighter to what is rapidly becoming a Third World country, I imagine that if this conflict drags on for longer periods of time, we'll lose a good many more things in ways that aren't supposed to happen. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 19:32:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21995; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:31:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:31:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199904130231.VAA18017@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:29:21 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fx0hk2.0.aN5.Dog4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hamdi, I wish they would do all raids like that, then they could close a few bases over there, and re-open a few back home. What do you think ? Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: hamdi ucar > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 3:25 PM > > I found a good page http://www.bangalorenet.com/system1/chungw/stealth.html > showing the plane is conventional on propulsion technology. > > hamdi ucar wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > It appears the B2 bomber take off from New Mexico or from Missouri and take a trip to Yugoslavia and return back just drop bombs. Very interesting! This seems controversial while other war plane doing their jobs perfectly. > > Regards, > > hamdi ucar > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 19:36:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24058; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:36:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:36:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199904130236.VAA18938@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: , Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:34:05 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lPtaf2.0.ot5.Zsg4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Don, In a group of pecan trees, when one is attacked by web worms, it emits a chemical signal, telling the other trees. The other trees then produce a chemical which prevents an attack. I think this was a Texas Ag Dept study...read it about 10 years ago. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Don J. S. Adams > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:43 PM > > Joe thats fascinating and reminds me of the experiment done byu Harold > Saxton Burr where in the electrodynamic readings were taken of each > tree in a segment of a forest, they were if I recall correctly being > recorded real time, one tree was cut down and all the other trees spiked > off the chart! > > Joe Portman wrote: > > > > Hey, Bill, > > That's good, but I know of some intellectual trees. When I was a boy, I > > rode down a certain country road a lot, and I observed on occasion the > > pruning of trees, by the county, for the sake of overhead wires. After a > > few trimmings, the trees quit growing limbs under the wires. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 20:31:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07972; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:31:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:31:21 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:29:33 -1000 Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904122348.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"0Z3-e3.0.Ty1.8gh4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Brian - >[...] another is that thanks to the >goofy radio signal put out by the engines any fool with a TV set tuned to the >right channel can pick up interference from the thing. Could you elaborate on that please? That's new to me. Why would the engines be putting out a radio noise? Do they use HV in the exhaust to disperse and cool the plume quickly? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 21:52:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA09113; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:52:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:52:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3712B0DA.8B939584@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:50:02 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Portman , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? References: <199904130236.VAA18938@mw2.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fas6v3.0.FE2.wri4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com crimminy! thats bizarre! Joe Portman wrote: > > Don, > In a group of pecan trees, when one is attacked by web worms, it emits a > chemical signal, telling the other trees. The other trees then produce a > chemical which prevents an attack. I think this was a Texas Ag Dept > study...read it about 10 years ago. > Joe Portman > ========== > > ---------- > > From: Don J. S. Adams > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? > > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:43 PM > > > > Joe thats fascinating and reminds me of the experiment done byu Harold > > Saxton Burr where in the electrodynamic readings were taken of each > > tree in a segment of a forest, they were if I recall correctly being > > recorded real time, one tree was cut down and all the other trees spiked > > off the chart! > > > > Joe Portman wrote: > > > > > > Hey, Bill, > > > That's good, but I know of some intellectual trees. When I was a > boy, I > > > rode down a certain country road a lot, and I observed on occasion the > > > pruning of trees, by the county, for the sake of overhead wires. After > a > > > few trimmings, the trees quit growing limbs under the wires. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 23:16:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA29795; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:16:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:16:32 -0700 Message-ID: <19990413061655.17453.rocketmail@web208.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:16:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Trent Subject: Update To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"RVabd2.0.SH7._4k4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, I used to follow this list a few years ago, but lost interest. What's the current status of Greg Watson's SMOT kits? Has he turned out to not have actual OU or? Has anything happened with RQM (http://www.rqm.ch), like someone has a report of one of their generators operating etc? What currently looks like the most promising line of inquiry/experimentation for a working OU generator? Thanks, Trent _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 12 23:56:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04053; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:56:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:56:18 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <298a4f37.2444444b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 02:55:07 EDT Subject: Theory of Romag Generator proposal.. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortexC-L@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Kz5Uu1.0.8_.Hgk4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear All, I have updated my web site with a proposal from Dave Squires about the theory of the Romag generator working principle at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/dsqromag.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 00:37:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA14181; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:37:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:37:00 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <8aec0e9a.24444de3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:36:03 EDT Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: atech@ix.netcom.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"R4Oa83.0.TT3.RGl4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 11/04/99 17:17:54, atech@ix.netcom.com wrote : > Jean-Louis; > > Congratulations on your good work. > Hi Dennis and all, Thanks for your comments, > Comment: Electrode surfaces could be smoother. It looks like the electrode > annular plasma balls are somewhat randomly spaced by sharp points and edges > on the rim. The geometry precision and surface smoothness should be such > that the plasma balls are evenly spaced on the rim (easier to achieve when > under vacuum). No observable (detectable) shape or smoothness > irregularities. I fully agree with about the smoothness surface of the cupola, this will increase the effect. because the medium will be able to flow at a higher speed on the cupola surface, thus this will decrease the hydrostatic pressure on the upper surface. This is an ElectroHydroDynamic effect and the shape and the medium speed along a specific path (due to the shape, like a wing profile) is very important for increasing the resulting thrust... > Do you have vacuum / belljar equipment (good to 1 or 2 Torr - w/ vacuum > gauge - electrode volume should be 10% or less of belljar volume or there > maybe heat accumulation issues - w/ force sensor)? If so, would you like to > try a suggestion or two? > Unfortunately, I don't have a vacuum chamber for testing the device, but I hope to check this soon with some external help.... This has been fully tested and checked by Townsend Brown in France, for more informations about this you may read : "Electrogravitics Systems" ( Report on a new propulsion methodology) by Thomas Valone - ISBN 0-9641070-0-7 and also : "L'effet Biefeld-Brown" by Alexandre Szames - (ASZ editions ISBN 2-913377-00-9 - EAN 9782913377004) ( http://www.aes.com.freeservers.com/html/bbbook.htm ) Ps: I have updated my web site with three new videos about my EHD-FS v2.0 in action and also some explanations about the EHD working principles with computer simulations pictures at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/advprop.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 01:13:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA21289; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:11:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:11:11 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:10:24 EDT Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... To: donadams@telusplanet.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"7EP1f1.0.YC5.Vml4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 11/04/99 19:55:44, donadams@telusplanet.net wrote : > this appears similiar to the 'ionocraft'? Not exactly, the ionocraft is a pure ion thrust device, so the resulting thrust is not very efficient and very week...because this is like a simple Franklin's motor or a simple corona device. The EHD Flying Saucer use the geometry of the device like the airfoil of a conventional wing. The arcuate electrode increase significantly the effect and this produces an hydrostatic pressure differential in the medium (air or aether) like the "Coanda Effect" which creates the main thrust. T.T. Brown has tested differents shaped electrodes and he has found that a tri-actuate electrode was the best one. The medium speed along the electrode is also very important this is done by the high voltage used. In 1956 the Brown's discs had attained speeds of several hundred miles per hour when charged to several hundred kilovolts...at 50kv the speeds was 12 miles per hours. The geometrical effect of the shaped electrode and also the use of a non-uniform strong E-Field are the keys of a successful EHD device. look at my computer simulation about this at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdfscs.htm I can assure you that this it is very impressive and exciting to see my EHD Flying Saucer take off and translate SILENTLY through my lab...the videos are not able to retranscribe the reality... Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 01:14:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA22125; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:14:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:14:35 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: <3df0b2b8.244456c5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:13:57 EDT Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Trevmaniac@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"9knZF3.0.cP5.hpl4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/11/99 5:06:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, knuke@LCIA.COM writes: << Hi Trevor, Mark Goldes of MPI was Takahashi's representative in the US. Their office was in California a few years ago when reports of a thin film superconducter developed by MPI was being published. Wow, this is weird. I was looking for my file on Goldes, and I couldn't find it. It's over an inch thick, and I've called the guy a couple of times. I knew I had his address on my website, so I brought that up and spent and hour looking for it there. No Joy! I knew they used to have a website on the internet, so I started running searches. After three searches that didn't come up with anything on MPI or Goldes, I finally ran across this on the INE website. Thanks Patrick! Magnetic Power Inc. The Joint Venture partner with Sciex (UK) for Takahashi supermagnets and supermotors in North America. Sebastopol, CA. Contact Mark Goldes, TEL 707-829-9391, FAX 707-829-1002. Let us know the latest news if you call them, OK? -Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm >> That was a great lead Michael. Thank you very much indeed. I got to talk with Mark Goldes and he had quite a story to tell. Since he took the trouble to fax me a statement, I will reproduce it here: "Thank you for your call. The only Takahashi motor we have received does not perform any differently from any other electric motor. The same is true of his magnets, which are conventional neodymium-iron-boron magnets. To our knowledge, Takahashi no longer claims any of his motors are 'over unity'. The motor was sold only as a part of a scooter, but the scooter we received here failed to validate any of his claims. His former London representative now believes Takahashi's claims are fraudulant. Please let your source of information know these facts" In a follow up phone call, Mark told me the scooter had a maximum range of about 30 miles. One unusual feature about the power unit was that it included four large capacitors. This may have helped with acceleration. >From this report and from my own tests I believe switched reluctance motors in themselves are not over-unity. If there is an over-unity effect it is at least partly due to pulse charging of the lead-acid batteries. It is well known that pulse charging maximizes the capacity of many battery types. Whether this phenomina has been confused with evidence for over-unity, I don't know. Any test for over-unity must account for this. ie by running the test long enough for the battery capacity to stabilize at its new level. If there really is overunity associated with pulse charging a lead-acid battery, then a Tesla Switch could be used to find it. Run the Switch for at least a week under load, and see if the batteries last that long. The only question is what switch frequency to use? Is 1 to 6 MHz feasible? Trevor From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 05:59:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02922; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:58:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:58:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199904131258.HAA26707@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: , Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:56:37 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RHfDo3.0.Vj.C-p4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Don, Isn't man vain to think that he is the only creative creature in the universe ? Joe Portman ============= ---------- > From: Don J. S. Adams > To: Joe Portman ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 9:50 PM > > crimminy! thats bizarre! > > > Joe Portman wrote: > > > > Don, > > In a group of pecan trees, when one is attacked by web worms, it emits a > > chemical signal, telling the other trees. The other trees then produce a > > chemical which prevents an attack. I think this was a Texas Ag Dept > > study...read it about 10 years ago. > > Joe Portman > > ========== > > > > ---------- > > > From: Don J. S. Adams > > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > Subject: Re: Are people of any use to the Universe? > > > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:43 PM > > > > > > Joe thats fascinating and reminds me of the experiment done byu Harold > > > Saxton Burr where in the electrodynamic readings were taken of each > > > tree in a segment of a forest, they were if I recall correctly being > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 06:18:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09107; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:18:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:18:27 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <714808fe.24449dfb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:17:47 EDT Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Bmd2323@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"u8iRN1.0.CE2.ZGq4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick, I'm afraid I can't be too specific as I don't recall the article and am not sure where it is. I do know that it appeared in an issue of "Popular Mechanics" within the last two years. As I recall, it stated that the Australians had somehow made this discovery. I believe that the radio noise was generated by whatever means the stealth uses to disperse the heat signature from its exhaust. Perhaps its is cause by electric motors moving vents that allow the outside air to mix with the exhaust before it is expelled out the back. The article was just a short one pager and was located in the front section of the magazine and had an artists rendering of a stealth giving off radio waves as I recall. It made USA Today and several other news services when it came out. Hopes this helps and sorry I can't be more specific. If I come across the particular issue, I'll let you know. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 07:59:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA10668; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:58:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:58:55 -0700 Message-ID: <37135C33.F90266F0@harti.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:01:08 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Incremental coil-rotor overunity efficiency ? X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <51deb57.2442de99@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UzCot2.0.bc2.lkr4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi JL, regarding: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/mromexp.htm maybe you can already generate incremental overunity efficiency with your drill motor rotor with the permanent magnet on it and the tangential coil setup ? Example: 1. when your drill motor rotor runs at 2259 RPM and consumes 3 Watts of input power, when the tangential coil is open, this is the idle state, just overcoming friction losses. 2. Now the LED shorts out the positive Back-EMF pulse. this might produce 10 Watts of heat inside the diode and coil resistance.(if you use a bigger coil and diode) 3. If now the drill motor increases its power input only by 0.2 Watts to 3.2 Watts total input power you have: 10 Watts / 0.2 Watts= 5000 % incremental overunity efficiency. Please let me know, if you can draw more power out of the coil than the drill motor will increase in power input. Thanks a lot in advance. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 10:59:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18754; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:58:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:58:35 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:56:15 -1000 Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904131415.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"RCecE3.0.xa4.BNu4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Brian - >I'm afraid I can't be too specific as I don't recall the article and am not >sure where it is. I do know that it appeared in an issue of "Popular >Mechanics" within the last two years. As I recall, it stated that the >Australians had somehow made this discovery. I believe that the radio noise >was generated by whatever means the stealth uses to disperse the heat >signature from its exhaust. Perhaps its is cause by electric motors moving >vents that allow the outside air to mix with the exhaust before it is >expelled out the back. > >The article was just a short one pager and was located in the front section >of the magazine and had an artists rendering of a stealth giving off radio >waves as I recall. It made USA Today and several other news services when it >came out. > >Hopes this helps and sorry I can't be more specific. If I come across the >particular issue, I'll let you know. That's like me: I read lots of stuff and get loose information bits, then can't reference them later. I recall reading somewhere about the exhaust trick - give the vapor particles a like-charge, and they disperse and cool faster giving a reduced infrared signature. But of course the electrical disturbance might make a certain amount of RF noise. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 11:25:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA29635; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:24:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:24:15 -0700 Message-ID: <19990413182428.23235.rocketmail@web118.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:24:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: (off-topic) Powerful Magnets To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"9B_ec3.0.rE7.Elu4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Computer hard-drives have very strong magnets for the head-positioning assembly. The older full-height drives seems to have the larger and stronger magnets. Rare-Earth and NIBs are common. These older drives [I found lots of good ones in some Miniscibe 1GB ESDI drives] are ending up in trash bins in most MIS departments. --- Gene Marlin wrote: > I figured that the Freenrg list would be a > worthwhile place to ask this, > because most devices the might generate free energy > rely on magnets: > > Does anybody know of a relatively cheap source of > "scrap" or broken pieces > of rare-earth magnets? I'm looking for permanent > magnets that are as strong > as possible. > > > Thanks, > > Gene > > === Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 12:10:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15278; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:08:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:08:56 -0700 Message-ID: <2118CA40CE86D21180640080C87822720396D9@admin.microtech.co.gg> From: Paul Smith To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:07:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: pjsmith@microtech.co.gg Resent-Message-ID: <"nIpZA2.0.Zk3.7Pv4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I believe the system to disperse the jet exhaust more efficiently was to charge the leading edge of the wing with a high negative voltage, and charge the jet exhaust with a positive charge. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Monteverde [mailto:rick@highsurf.com] Sent: 13 April 1999 18:56 To: freenrg list Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? Brian - >I'm afraid I can't be too specific as I don't recall the article and am not >sure where it is. I do know that it appeared in an issue of "Popular >Mechanics" within the last two years. As I recall, it stated that the >Australians had somehow made this discovery. I believe that the radio noise >was generated by whatever means the stealth uses to disperse the heat >signature from its exhaust. Perhaps its is cause by electric motors moving >vents that allow the outside air to mix with the exhaust before it is >expelled out the back. > >The article was just a short one pager and was located in the front section >of the magazine and had an artists rendering of a stealth giving off radio >waves as I recall. It made USA Today and several other news services when it >came out. > >Hopes this helps and sorry I can't be more specific. If I come across the >particular issue, I'll let you know. That's like me: I read lots of stuff and get loose information bits, then can't reference them later. I recall reading somewhere about the exhaust trick - give the vapor particles a like-charge, and they disperse and cool faster giving a reduced infrared signature. But of course the electrical disturbance might make a certain amount of RF noise. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 12:39:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25804; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:38:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:38:23 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:12:17 +0200 Message-ID: <01be85e1$8c000560$02d61ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"jEKSB3.0.2J6.kqv4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all In regard to the above topic has anyone ever done any experiments with the Brown reluctance style devices? Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 13:47:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA21283; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:43:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:43:41 -0700 Message-ID: <004501be85ed$32825c20$788519d4@xxx> From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Vicente_Jos=E9_Ramos_Orenga?=" To: "Gene Marlin" , Subject: RE: (off-topic) Powerful Magnets Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:35:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"48Wyf1.0.SC5.ynw4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Gene You can use powerful magnets, but not are the way to achieve overunity. Only causes troubles in structure strengh and are very dangerous. Vicente. -----Mensaje original----- De: Gene Marlin Para: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fecha: lunes, 12 de abril de 1999 21:56 Asunto: (off-topic) Powerful Magnets >I figured that the Freenrg list would be a worthwhile place to ask this, >because most devices the might generate free energy rely on magnets: > >Does anybody know of a relatively cheap source of "scrap" or broken pieces >of rare-earth magnets? I'm looking for permanent magnets that are as strong >as possible. > > >Thanks, > >Gene > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 18:47:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14857; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:47:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:47:29 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: rmarlin@network-one.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:10:00 -0700 Subject: Re: (off-topic) Powerful Magnets Message-ID: <19990413.184212.-505777.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4T81M2.0.xd3.nE_4t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ALL Electronics in Los Angeles has pretty good deals of surplus rare earth magnets. Their order number is 1-800-826-5432. Tim On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:53:34 -0500 "Gene Marlin" writes: >I figured that the Freenrg list would be a worthwhile place to ask >this, >because most devices the might generate free energy rely on magnets: > >Does anybody know of a relatively cheap source of "scrap" or broken >pieces >of rare-earth magnets? I'm looking for permanent magnets that are as >strong >as possible. > > >Thanks, > >Gene > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 19:42:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05752; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:41:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:41:36 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:30:31 EDT Subject: Over-Balanced Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Grod123456@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"HXmHk2.0.nP1.W105t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well Guys, I have been working on my wheel mathematically for a few days (thanks guys for the pressure formulas) and have confirmed my theories (mathematically) for several different sized wheels... I calculated the weight of each cylinder during every degree of rotation of the wheel and found that the left side of the wheel is ALWAYS heavier (the closest the right and left will balance, is off about 64 lbs torque at the axis on the left side)... thus the wheel will turn counterclockwise. The wheel will probably turn slow (due to the time needed to transfer the weight)... Probably 8 to 15 RPM's.... It will be around 8 feet tall (it could be made much smaller but will need more cylinders) ... Since I'm trying to keep this cheap, I want to get it down to 8 cylinders but will most likely need 16 cylinders... Besides the friction on the center bearings (not much), the other parts that have friction, I have already tested individually and made math formulas and curves for them... I have 4 different variables I can adjust on this wheel to 'tweak' it for maximum efficiency... Just wanted to let anyone know my progress if you're interested... Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 13 22:05:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15198; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:05:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:05:13 -0700 Message-ID: <004e01be8633$ed184f40$50684fc6@default> From: "mrand@access" To: , "Ian Hacon" Cc: "freenrg-l" Subject: Water electrolyte experiment Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:01:50 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nJeKm3.0.Jj3.9825t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com To: Browns Gas & Joe Cell Researchers Re: Water electrolyte experiment Tests with simple electrolytic cells have determined that baking soda, sodium hydrogen carbonate, works as an excellent water electrolyte to lower the water resistance for efficient hydrolysis to occur. Observations: 1. The vapour off the water surface is odourless and neutral, in opposition to salt and caustic electrolytes that produces toxic gas such as chlorine. 2. The gas production off the stainless steel plates is vigorous with large foams of hydrogen and oxygen gases quickly building on the water surface, that makes a loud pop when ignited with a match. 3. The water level expands due to the gases off the plates saturating the water. 4. The electrolytic cell holds an electric charge for a short time after the dc power is cut off. Possibilities: 1. More efficient gas production. Under a vacuum the gas bubbles off the plates will expand and rise to the surface thereby leaving room for other water molecules to gain access to the plates for electrolysis to occur. 2. The volume of gas would increase, Boyle's Law, under a vacuum pump. 3. Less power required for highly efficient electrolytic cell. Multi-celled unit with neutral plates, as discovered by Rhodes, Brown and Joe, allow high voltage and current without the need for transformers. Further tests are in the works. WITH SAFETY DISCLAIMER! Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 01:05:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16451; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:05:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:05:10 -0700 Message-ID: <37142FED.7C6BDBB7@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:04:29 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Grod123456@aol.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OPaHI2.0.y04.rm45t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Congrats Rod! Now if there was a way to test this simply with a low cost table top running prototype you'd be set! Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > > Well Guys, > I have been working on my wheel mathematically for a few days (thanks guys > for the pressure formulas) and have confirmed my theories (mathematically) > for several different sized wheels... I calculated the weight of each > cylinder during every degree of rotation of the wheel and found that the left > side of the wheel is ALWAYS heavier (the closest the right and left will > balance, is off about 64 lbs torque at the axis on the left side)... thus the > wheel will turn counterclockwise. > The wheel will probably turn slow (due to the time needed to transfer > the weight)... Probably 8 to 15 RPM's.... It will be around 8 feet tall (it > could be made much smaller but will need more cylinders) ... Since I'm trying > to keep this cheap, I want to get it down to 8 cylinders but will most likely > need 16 cylinders... > Besides the friction on the center bearings (not much), the other > parts that have friction, I have already tested individually and made math > formulas and curves for them... > I have 4 different variables I can adjust on this wheel to 'tweak' it > for maximum efficiency... > Just wanted to let anyone know my progress if you're interested... > Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 03:04:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA21338; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:02:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:02:06 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:59:50 -1000 Subject: Re: Over-Balanced Wheel From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904140618.SM00197@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"B2lF1.0.ID5.UU65t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rod - > Just wanted to let anyone know my progress if you're interested... Thanks for the update on the list here. Please do stay on and keep us appraised of your progress. Do you have a website where you can post pictures and more inforamtion? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 06:08:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA17984; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 06:07:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 06:07:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199904141307.IAA29928@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Water electrolyte experiment Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:04:55 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yH1LQ1.0.uO4.-B95t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Michael, Your tests are very interesting. In the 50's, I put 2 electrodes between two microscope plates with a drop of vinegar. I wanted to study the gas produced with tiny currents. Being bored, after a while, while listening to music on my busted case radio, I wondered what the gas would do if I hooked up the speaker. The results were stunningly beautiful....big silver bubbles for the base notes and various size smaller for other notes. Hmmm...I then took the slide from the microscope and placed it in my slide projector to enlarge the view. It was beautiful on the movie screen. It was a new way to enjoy music. Of course, today it is very commonplace. Thought you'd be interested in this related trivia. ............Joe Portman---------- ps; I'm going to try your baking soda test. ============================== > From: mrand@access > To: wiseman@eagle-research.com; Ian Hacon > Cc: freenrg-l > Subject: Water electrolyte experiment > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 12:01 AM > > To: Browns Gas & Joe Cell Researchers > Re: Water electrolyte experiment > > Tests with simple electrolytic cells have determined that baking soda, > sodium hydrogen carbonate, works as an excellent water electrolyte to lower > the water resistance for efficient hydrolysis to occur. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 07:10:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA08149; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:08:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:08:28 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:07:45 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:58:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Water electrolyte experiment In-reply-to: <199904141307.IAA29928@mw1.texas.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2008ZXWLEGUQZ X400-MTS-identifier: [;54700141409991/3663909@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"5kZ3d1.0.9_1.S5A5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com All, Has anyone tried lemon juice? I saw a science news bit on TV about 5 years ago about a guy who was trying to replace solder flux with a foam of lemon juice as surface preparation in automated soldering of printed circuit boards. Environmentaly it was a lot better when it came to disposal after use. Not to mention safer to breath the fumes & smelling alot better too. Bill webriggs@concentric.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 08:35:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08379; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:31:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:31:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199904141531.RAA25081@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:31:30 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qujHz3.0.q22.cJB5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Has anyone came up with a way to fold a paper B2 model ? Yes, and it flies like shit!!! Aris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 10:28:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05625; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:27:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:27:29 -0700 Message-ID: <003301be869b$d248ecc0$7a7afad0@server> From: "Glenn Hinton" To: Subject: Browns Gas Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:25:35 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1x1Lf.0.kN1.00D5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com To all Brown's Gas experimenters, If Brown's gas is able to bring different materials to their melting/sublimation points, what about using Brown's Gas to make your own solar panels? B.G. is much cheaper than oxy/acet or probably whatever they use to fire the furnaces that melt the silicon or boron to make PV panels. Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I have heard that they grow boron crystals and slice them to make some of the better solar panels. I am just trying to think of a cheaper per watt, homemade method of production. You probably would'nt begin to approach the efficiency of "storebought" panels but so what! They would be a helluva a lot cheaper, just make more! Finally, after three years I get to post something, and its even on topic! Let me know what you think........ Glenn Hinton, (who has never lit a bank of 100 watt bulbs without the help of Nicola Tesla and an AC outlet....) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 10:57:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA14469; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:56:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:56:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000401be86a0$2e67da80$41f8fea9@y9g6r3> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Vacuum Tubes Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:56:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Wm26h2.0.-X3.DRD5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com We ran across a good supply of unused vacuum tubes, some may have some use but all check out. Just started to inventory them but have a partial list posted to www.atgroup.org/electron.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 12:57:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA30722; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:55:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:55:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199904141955.OAA05048@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Browns Gas Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:53:20 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ouCOu.0.xV7.6BF5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Glenn, Sounds good. Have you done it with any kind of gas ? Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: Glenn Hinton > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Browns Gas > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 12:25 PM > > To all Brown's Gas experimenters, > > If Brown's gas is able to bring different materials to their > melting/sublimation points, what about using Brown's Gas to make your own > solar panels? B.G. is much cheaper than oxy/acet or probably whatever they From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 12:59:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA32366; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:58:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:58:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199904141957.OAA05493@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:55:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FDxAV.0.cv7.LDF5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Aris, Got a pic of the paper B2 ? By the way, dried cow pies fly real good. ---------- > From: Aris > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 10:31 AM > > > > Has anyone came up with a way to fold a paper B2 model ? > > Yes, and it flies like shit!!! > > Aris > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 13:02:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01836; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:01:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:01:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199904142001.PAA03269@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Water electrolyte experiment Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:59:17 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qstop2.0.RS.WGF5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill, If the pc boards are freshly manufactured, that might work, because only a small amount of chemical cleaning would be required. The same has to apply to the components being mounted on the board. Joe Portman ++++++++++++ ---------- > From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 > To: freenrg-l > Subject: Re: Water electrolyte experiment > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 8:58 AM > > All, > > Has anyone tried lemon juice? > > I saw a science news bit on TV about 5 years ago about a guy who was trying > to replace solder flux with a foam of lemon juice as surface preparation in > automated soldering of printed circuit boards. > > Environmentaly it was a lot better when it came to disposal after use. > Not to mention safer to breath the fumes & smelling alot better too. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 13:57:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA21421; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:55:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:55:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01be86b8$e0c0f8c0$0a7bfad0@server> From: "Glenn Hinton" To: Subject: Re: Browns Gas Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:53:39 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"XKLRy1.0.cE5.43G5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: Joe Portman To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Browns Gas Wednesday, April 14, 1999 12:57 PM, Joe Portman wrote: >Glenn, > Sounds good. Have you done it with any kind of gas ? >Joe Portman >=========== No Joe, I hav'nt. I have purchased Brown's Gas books 1 and 2 from George Wiseman but am embarrassed to say am having some trouble following the layout. I also plan to look into conventional methods of solar panel production so that I can understand more about the state of the art. >> From: Glenn Hinton >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Browns Gas >> Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 12:25 PM >> >> To all Brown's Gas experimenters, >> >> If Brown's gas is able to bring different materials to their >> melting/sublimation points, what about using Brown's Gas to make your own >> solar panels? B.G. is much cheaper than oxy/acet or probably whatever >they > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 14:35:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA24361; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:34:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:34:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199904142134.XAA12467@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:25:48 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BxNsW2.0.Vy5.hdG5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Joe, I can go out and scan some pic of dry cow pies:-)).. BTW do you have any idea what happens when you put 5 Mvolt on a pie?? > Got a pic of the paper B2 ? By the way, dried cow pies fly real good. > > > Has anyone came up with a way to fold a paper B2 model ? > > > > Yes, and it flies like shit!!! To give you a more serious (honest) answer on your question... I haven't fold precisely a B2, but I can imagine the shape of this bird is against any "nature" law... At low speeds it will fly like pie and at high speeds it will fly like doublepie... I must agree with some that a B2 has techniques build in for savely flying at low speeds and above the soundbarrier, it has to... Regards, Aris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 15:00:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA07238; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:58:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:58:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:03:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199904142203.AAA17764@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: William Beaty , freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: New special coil arrangement test great ! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA07040 Resent-Message-ID: <"g0HvA2.0.pm1.7-G5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:18 11.04.99 -0700, William Beaty wrote: >On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >> If it is true, that you can just move >> a magnet 90 degrees "wrong" polarised >> through a coil and it still generates >> a usable positive induction pulse, >> which can be used without any drag by >> powering a load via a diode, >> I guess you have "positively violated" >> the Lenz law ! > >But.. but... the Romag is very similar to a conventional generator! A >conventional method to construct a polyphase AC generator is to spin a PM >magnet within an iron ring, and wind three coils on the ring. (This might >even be a Tesla patent(?), since Tesla did use this geometry in some of >his devices) The field from the magnet runs through the ring (axially >through the coils,) just like a conventional generator, and as the fields >change, you get normal AC. Think of the generator as being several >electromagnets with ends touching. The flux can still enter through the >side of one inactive coil, pass through an active coil, then exit through >the side of another inactive coil. > ...snip... Hi Bill and All, please have a look again at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/mromexp.htm I am just exited by the new experiment Naudin has done, not the Romag itsself. If Naudin´s experiment is true, that he can capture the positive BACK-EMF induction pulse via a diode and does not get any drag onto the rotor this way, this is really the way to build an overunity generator. You can extract this positive pulse (and just this positive pulse only !) and drawing massive power from it, without loading and raising the input torque required to rotate the rotor with the magnet on it ! So I guess, if this is not a measurement error of JL Naudin one could build a generator which has the same input power needed for running in idle mode or when drawing lots of power out of the output coils ! Let´s make an example: To run the rotor at 2500 RPM idle will require maybe 3 Watts of input power to the DC motor. (without loading the output coils in any way, coil connections are open !)(just to overcome all friction losses) Now short out the positive EMF spike via a diode and a load resistor. This load resistor might convert the EMF spike to about 10 Watts of heat, but the rotor DC motor will still only need 3.2 Watts of input power to remain at 2500 RPM. If this would be true, we would have an "incremental efficiency" of 5000 % ! (coils internal DC resistance not counted in = 0 Ohm for easier calculation) I hope that the experiment from Naudin holds true, cause this would be a sure and easy way to generate overunity output from a generator. It would be the easiest way known to me to violate the Lenz Law ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 15:01:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10500; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:01:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:01:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:05:40 +0200 Message-Id: <199904142205.AAA17770@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: "Newman-L Mailing List" From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Your Negative input power Newman experiment Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA10472 Resent-Message-ID: <"WZ_U41.0.uZ2.R0H5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:25 11.04.99 -0400, Newman-L Mailing List wrote: >Hello, >In the excitement of the moments just prior to blowing up my stator (yes >again), I observed something very interesting. FYI visit my site and >look at today's page. > >Regards >Chris Kuelzow > >So I let it run as I absorbed the action. I then walked around and looked at >the ammeter. It was negative! At all running voltages the meter was pegged >backwards, pulsating at some irregular low frequency. >>>>> > >I stopped the unit. I reversed the connections to the meter to try to >characterize the waveform. I started the system back up. Bingo! It was >exactly the same behavior. > > >In my excitement, I brought the motor to new (running) voltage levels. Bang. Hi Chris, well done ! I had also in one experiment with my biggest Newman coil at least on the scope an all negative input current(integrated visually over one period), when I used 2 spark gaps in series and thus getting faster current disrupts. But my input amperemeter was all the time still positive, small input only but still positive. Now it really depends on your input circuit and HV supply generator, how it is build and what kind of input amperemeter you use, to say what is going on. Do you have a circuit or block diagramm of your HV supply device ? As you don´t shut down the RF spark spikes via a neon bulb your input amperemeter could be saturated by RF bursts and show invalid current pulses or your rectifier circuit inside the HV generator at the outpt stage is saturated by RF or some other cases that might apply. As you did not yet take scope measurements and you don´t know how your input amperemeter reacts to big RF bursts you really can´t say what is going on there. If you really have ALL the TIME negative input current this motor could be operated by a one time charged capacitor bank and would never drain down the caps, but just charge them up. Maybe you can try this experiment again and watch the voltage of a charged 18 KV Capacitor if it raises or discharges... I agree, that stacking up spark gaps ( or in this case commutator contact switches) in series helps a lot for producing the Newman back current recharge effect. It just generates a faster dI/dt and that gives a higher induction voltage and a longer ringing of the coils internal LC circuit. Try this input current measurement circuit: http://168.144.2.41/newman2/7thtest.gif Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 15:05:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13703; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:05:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:05:04 -0700 Message-ID: <006a01be86c3$33a2bb00$aea645d1@nimmachine> From: "Psy-Kosh" To: References: <199904142134.XAA12467@poindexter.wirehub.nl> Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:07:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y99hg1.0.0M3.G4H5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Dear Joe, > > I can go out and scan some pic of dry cow pies:-)).. > > BTW do you have any idea what happens when > you put 5 Mvolt on a pie?? > Bye bye cow pie? Why oh why did the cow pie have to fry?! by the way, my impresion is that though the EHD saucer MIGHT be able to work in a vacume, the effect would be extreemly weak without a normal matter fluid medium... Actually, It would probably fly best in a plasma... but keep in mind that these are my uneducated impresions, and don't have much basis in anything. Psy-Kosh DC2.!/?(?(H)) r++/r+++! Gm a- s++ "The scientist who would rather refute than comprehend demonstrates he has chosen the wrong calling." -The Forever Machine ------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 16:03:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07258; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:01:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:01:39 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAgSndfPCvCe56DZH0BO60RgZDgicCFCQFz2ktHRc6luIm2CL/Nb+PU0/h From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:01:35 -0500 (EST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor Message-ID: <8041-37151E4F-2505@postoffice-122.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Robert H. Calloway" 's message of Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:58:32 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"ZlcRa2.0.Dn1.JvH5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robert Calloway wrote, Another effect that I havent mentioned is, take the wheel out of its support and set it on a 2 1/2 inch wide board about 8 foot long. Attach 2 rolls of pennies to the inside of the chaser magnet support. The wheel will roll by itself until the running magnet cocks and drags on the side plate causing it to stop. The 2 rolls of pennies weight will cause the support to hang more vertical causing the running magnet to turn the whole wheel assembly down the track. Regards, Robert H. Calloway................ Robert, If your running magnet would not cock and you had a circular track, are you saying this would continue to roll? Do you think cow magnets would work in your design? RB From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 16:42:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23603; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:41:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:41:48 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:40:36 -0700 Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... From: "Alex Karahalios" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1287989201-15863507@mail.figint.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"7Q4CK1.0.hm5.xUI5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "Psy-Kosh" > > by the way, my impresion is that though the EHD saucer MIGHT be able to work > in a vacume, the effect would be extreemly weak without a normal matter > fluid medium... Actually, It would probably fly best in a plasma... but keep > in mind that these are my uneducated impresions, and don't have much basis > in anything. > I had read that when T.T. Brown had done similar experiments that the saucer would fly faster in a vacume then in air. Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 16:49:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27004; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:48:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:48:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199904142348.SAA06469@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:38:15 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Nca17.0.qb6.BbI5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well, boys, it sounds like we need a super cowchip. All seriousness aside, now. Joe Portman ========= ---------- > From: Psy-Kosh > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 5:07 PM > > > > Dear Joe, > > > > I can go out and scan some pic of dry cow pies:-)).. > > > > BTW do you have any idea what happens when > > you put 5 Mvolt on a pie?? > > > > Bye bye cow pie? Why oh why did the cow pie have to fry?! > > by the way, my impresion is that though the EHD saucer MIGHT be able to work > in a vacume, the effect would be extreemly weak without a normal matter > fluid medium... Actually, It would probably fly best in a plasma... but keep > in mind that these are my uneducated impresions, and don't have much basis > in anything. > > Psy-Kosh > DC2.!/?(?(H)) r++/r+++! Gm a- s++ > > "The scientist who would rather refute than comprehend demonstrates he has > chosen the wrong calling." -The Forever Machine > ------------------------------------------------ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 18:14:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22487; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904150110.UAA29079@mercury.shreve.net> From: "Robert H. Calloway" To: Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:00:04 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MZ4Zj1.0.2V5.9rJ5t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello RB, Yes, if the running magnet does not hang up in the wheel, it will continue to go around the track. When the chaser magnet is put in its lowest position in the support and allowed to hang with the running magnet in front of it, the wheel will balance. It wont move. If you tape 2 rolls of pennies to the inside of the support of the chaser magnet and allow it to hang, the balance has been offset. This slight gravity offset has allowed the chaser magnet to repell the running magnet futher causing it to roll up the wheel. Since the running magnet cannot actually go up the wheel, its weight turns the wheel. As for cow magnets, I have not experimented with them in this configuration. Regards, Robert H. Calloway ---------- > From: R B > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 6:01 PM > > Robert Calloway wrote, > > Another effect that I havent mentioned is, take the wheel out > of its support and set it on a 2 1/2 inch wide board about 8 foot long. > Attach 2 rolls of pennies to the inside of the chaser magnet support. > The wheel will roll by itself until the running magnet cocks and drags > on the side plate causing it to stop. The 2 rolls of pennies weight > will cause the support to hang more vertical causing the running magnet > to turn the whole wheel assembly down the track. Regards, Robert H. > Calloway................ Robert, > If your running magnet would not cock and you had a circular > track, are you saying this would continue to roll? Do you think cow > magnets would work in your design? RB From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 20:27:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA05633; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:26:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:26:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3715403D.36034584@telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:26:21 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New special coil arrangement test great ! References: <199904142203.AAA17764@ns.b.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q4gOo.0.sN1.xnL5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan, do you plan on building an actual model of this? If so when do you think it might be ready for testing? Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > At 10:18 11.04.99 -0700, William Beaty wrote: > >On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > >> If it is true, that you can just move > >> a magnet 90 degrees "wrong" polarised > >> through a coil and it still generates > >> a usable positive induction pulse, > >> which can be used without any drag by > >> powering a load via a diode, > >> I guess you have "positively violated" > >> the Lenz law ! > > > >But.. but... the Romag is very similar to a conventional generator! A > >conventional method to construct a polyphase AC generator is to spin a PM > >magnet within an iron ring, and wind three coils on the ring. (This might > >even be a Tesla patent(?), since Tesla did use this geometry in some of > >his devices) The field from the magnet runs through the ring (axially > >through the coils,) just like a conventional generator, and as the fields > >change, you get normal AC. Think of the generator as being several > >electromagnets with ends touching. The flux can still enter through the > >side of one inactive coil, pass through an active coil, then exit through > >the side of another inactive coil. > > > ...snip... > > Hi Bill and All, > > please have a look again at: > > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/mromexp.htm > > I am just exited by the new experiment Naudin has done, > not the Romag itsself. > > If Naudin´s experiment is true, that he can capture the positive > BACK-EMF induction pulse via a diode and does not get any > drag onto the rotor this way, this is really the way to build > an overunity generator. > You can extract this positive pulse (and just this positive pulse > only !) and drawing massive power from it, > without loading and raising the > input torque required to rotate the rotor with the magnet on it ! > > So I guess, if this is not a measurement error of JL Naudin > one could build a generator which has the same input power needed > for running in idle mode or when drawing lots of power out of the output coils ! > > Let´s make an example: > > To run the rotor at 2500 RPM idle will require maybe 3 Watts of input power > to the DC motor. (without loading the output coils in any way, coil connections > are open !)(just to overcome all friction losses) > > Now short out the positive EMF spike via a diode and a load resistor. > This load resistor might convert the EMF spike to about 10 Watts of heat, > but the rotor DC motor will still only need 3.2 Watts of input power > to remain at 2500 RPM. > If this would be true, we would have an "incremental efficiency" of > 5000 % ! > (coils internal DC resistance not counted in = 0 Ohm for easier calculation) > > I hope that the experiment from Naudin holds true, cause this would be > a sure and easy way to generate overunity output from a generator. > It would be the easiest way known to me to violate the Lenz Law ! > > Regards, Stefan. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 20:58:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16008; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:58:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:58:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:58:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <199904142134.XAA12467@poindexter.wirehub.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-OzQO.0.0w3.hFM5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Aris wrote: > Dear Joe, > > I can go out and scan some pic of dry cow pies:-)).. > > BTW do you have any idea what happens when > you put 5 Mvolt on a pie?? > You get "pie in the sky"? :-) Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 21:03:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA02528; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990414192816.235f3a50@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:28:16 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force In-Reply-To: <37114B4B.C255C62B@servtech.com> References: <199904110012.CAA01908@ns.b.vossnet.de> <3710AF0A.A6D0E904@servtech.com> <3.0.6.16.19990411130619.23a72bc6@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Qpfbe3.0.Pd.-JM5t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All, About a week ago Bob Gray posted a message (Weber Electrodynamics) about the Lorentz force and that some researchers found that a iron crosspiece experienced a force opposite from a (copper) crosspiece when current was sent through it by connection to 2 conductive rails. The 2 rails were connected to a high current electrical supply. I tried this today, and could get neither to roll (The classic theory says the crosspiece will experience force to roll to increase the area enclosed by the circuit formed by the 2 rails, the crosspiece, and the power supply.) I used a No. 10 AWG copper crosspiece, and it would lightly weld itself to the 2 copper rails. The iron crosspiece about the same diameter would arc at one or both the connections. Both crosspieces seemed to experience a "sticking" force to the rails when pushed along (crosspiece attracted to the rails). Has anyone tried any similar experiments? Is pure DC required, say from a storage battery, or a capacitor discharge (rail gun) type circuit? I used a simple supply with a 60Hz transformer, FWCT rectifier, and filter capacitor. The output is about 2 volts under load at a current somewhat greater than 100 Amps. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 22:02:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA31463; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:02:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:02:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199904150502.HAA16537@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:34:04 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0JzbT1.0.Wh7.WBN5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9911 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > BTW do you have any idea what happens when > > you put 5 Mvolt on a pie?? > > > > You get "pie in the sky"? :-) Why oh why Did the cow pie have to fry?! Just to get fly the pie high in the sky!! Bye bye cow pie!! I love poetry :-)) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 22:13:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA02141; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:13:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:13:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199904150513.HAA17316@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Browns Gas Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:10:09 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BT4qa1.0.IX.0MN5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > No Joe, I hav'nt. I have purchased Brown's Gas books 1 and 2 from George > Wiseman but am embarrassed to say am having some trouble following the Hmmm, what's wrong with the lay-out? > layout. I also plan to look into conventional methods of solar panel > production so that I can understand more about the state of the art. Basicly it's like mixing some liquids and a cristal grows, which has to be "sliced" and "wired"?? Or am I to simpleflying this solar"shit"?? Regards, Aris... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 22:28:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06333; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:28:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:28:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199904150528.HAA18381@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Fw: Rendement of Solarcels... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:28:19 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f0T4T.0.sY1.jZN5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well here my two pies.... The prove that we dutch are "bettering" our lives..:-)).. Actually Shell is, me not..:-)))).. > Onderwerp: Re: Rendement of Solarcels... > Datum: zondag 11 april 1999 18:50 > > see http://www.shell.com/zone/content/0,1384,1101-3331,00.html > Shell Solar Energy B.V. > Lagedijk 30, BZ 5705 Helmond > PO Bpx 3049, 5700 JC Helmond > Netherlands > Tel: +31 492 508 608 > Fax: +31 492 508 600 > info@shellsolar.nl BTW is it possible to make a portablesolarcelpoweredpiefrieflyunit? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 22:45:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA10713; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:44:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:44:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199904150544.HAA19621@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Fw: www.shell.com - Discovery Zone//Solarcells Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:45:07 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T234M2.0.Ed2.LpN5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If you are going to experiment, try to build Gallium Arsenide cells... They have the maximum rendement, off 30%, app 300 watt a square meter... http://www.shell.com/zone/content/0,1384,1101-3330,00.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 14 23:59:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA23509; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:59:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:59:18 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: <55437835.2446e816@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:58:30 EDT Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Trevmaniac@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"G-_JS1.0.El5.6vO5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/13/99 11:39:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, omikami@icon.co.za writes: << Hi all In regard to the above topic has anyone ever done any experiments with the Brown reluctance style devices? Regards Martin >> I am unfamiliar with the Brown device. Is there a web site or patent number you can give me? Trevor From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 00:19:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27207; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:17:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:17:08 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <44d839f6.2446ec0d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:15:25 EDT Subject: (off topic) Fw: WAR IN THE BALKANS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: MKSBoysal@aol.com To: undisclosed-recipients:; Resent-Message-ID: <"JWQfc1.0._e6.q9P5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com << ******* PLEASE REPOST ******* Fritz Springmeier is a prolific author and lecturer on the subject of the Illuminati and Mind Control.   When Fritz speaks, I  listen.   What he says in the release below makes a lot of sense and is in concert with the way these monsters operate.  ******* News Release from Fritz Springmeier THE WAR IN THE BALKANS IS FOLLOWING A SCRIPT TO CREATE WAR Over two weeks ago, this author was given inside information that the World Order had pulled all their key people---specialists, and so forth out of San Diego, CA. These people were given a secret high level briefing which told them to leave San Diego by April 3rd, and that the reason they were to leave was that Russia was going to drop nuclear bombs on San Diego, Seattle, NYC, coastal cities on the eastern seaboard where U.S. naval forces (such as subs) are kept, and Biloxi, Miss. These important people were then moved to Colorado, Idaho, Montana, and Utah where they could be secure underground. Two of these people had lived through Vietnam, and no longer trusted their government to care about the people, and it is through these two that this information leaked to this author. This information is important, but what is even more alarming is that many other things support this information & lead to only one conclusion, a nuclear war has been planned against the United States by Russia, & the American public is being blindly led into this war. People who are aware of Dmitri  Dutiman s prophecies may not be surprised by this state of affairs, but none the less are placed into the same position everyone else is in. That position is to ask, "Will this really take place?, "What can we do to prevent this? & "What can we do to prepare to survive such an attack?" and finally, "What will be the warning signs that bombs are about to drop?" This news release will try to answer these questions. Bad weather over Yugoslavia has apparently set back the script a few days. NATO says that they are two days behind because of bad weather. Apparently, the entire script must be played scene by scene, and the bad weather gave us a little more time. I also hope that by blowing the whistle on this devious plot over radio to 1 million listeners might make the plotters think twice about their play which has chillingly gone through act 1, act 2, act 3, and act 4 all according to the script. There are many interesting things about this Kosovo crisis that the news media is mostly ignoring, What will follow is some of the collaborating evidence and related affairs which the reader may not be aware of, Yugoslavia is like Russia s little brother. Since NATO s attacks on Yugoslavia, Russian television has repeatedly referred to Russia s close relationship to Yugoslavia. Russia has a treaty to protect Yugoslavia if it is attacked. What big brother would not defend his little brother? So why has not  Russia honored their commitment to Yugoslavia? Perhaps they are moving to do just that. More on this in a moment. NATO and Yugoslavia are locked into this crisis which continues to escalate. NATO continues to weaken itself as it uses up its limited supply of cruise missiles and ammunition. The United States has been sending its reserves of food and medical supplies to the Balkans. The United States is greatly overextended. In order to fight in the Balkans, air force units patrolling northern Iraq had to be shifted to the Balkans theater. The aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf went to the Adriatic and the only American aircraft carrier in the Pacific is now in the Persian Gulf. The fighting in the Balkans has no strategic importance in relationship to a conflict between Russia and the U.S. In other words, we are preoccupied with a costly war which if we get into a war with Russia has no strategic value. According to eyewitnesses who have sat in on high level meetings, the Kosovo crisis is following a script. There are numerous clues that this is true, in fact, many items of the pre-written script are being played out before our eyes. On the Bill Brumbaugh radio show, this author warned that the next step in the script was for Russia to increase tensions and "rattle her sabres". This stage just began today, as the Russian government demanded that the United States and NATO stop the bombing in a few days or else they would take action. At the same time, Russia has announced they will try to form a group of world leaders to work on diffusing the crisis. For those who are still skeptical, lets postulate for the sake of discussion that Russia wanted to nuke the U.S. If so, then how would events be scripted? The Russians would not want to announce their intentions so they will wear a smiling mask that hides their true intentions. Instead of being bellicose like Kruschev, they will put on a calm nice front, so as not to alarm their prey. Further, there would have to be some kind of pretext that would justify to the Russian people that America was aggressively a threat to them, and that their honor, patriotism and morality called for a strong reaction. NATO has been portrayed in the Russian media as having broken several international laws to interfere in the internal affairs of the nation of Yugoslavia. The U.S. has supposedly according to their news already launched an ICBM from a submarine that hit Yugoslavia. The United States also placed sanctions on 3 Russian companies Tula Design Bureau, Volsk Mechanical Plant, and the Central Research Institute for Precision Machine Building on April 4, 1999. At a time that American-Russian relationships are fragile, our government is busy humiliating and agitating the Russians. It does not make much sense. Why are we ignoring the Russians and humiliating the Russian government in front of the Russian people? Like I reported, we are following a script in which our traitorous leaders like Bill Clinton are involved in order to bring in the New World Order. This script will soon usher in W.W. III. Unfortunately, much of what is happening is not being reported, so most people can not put together the pieces that would expose how the crisis has been created at the behest of the World Order in order to implement their NWO agenda. The subject of Russia and its reaction to the NATO attacks on Yugoslavia has received very little attention on the establishment media. When the subject is raised, the answer is that Russia is an economic basketcase and they can t do anything. First, the bear still has claws. For years, Russia has been stockpiling the food that U.S. and Europe has sent them. Russia has secretly been enhancing their military. Their people are poor and suffering only because they have continued over the last few years to stockpile large quantities of food and weapons. They have followed both Sun Tsu and Lenin's doctrine of feigning weakness. One NSA agent told this author in a half-cocky fashion, simply, "If you want to understand what is happening today, read Sun Tsu." On the surface that does not seem to say much, but if one understands that Sun Tsu advocated feigning weakness to surprise one s enemy, it says a lot. In 1992, this author attended a conference at Lewis & Clark College which was opened to the public entitled "The New World Order". The speakers were several Russian professors from Moscow, such as the University of Moscow. I got a chance to ask questions. They said that Russia was in the same transition that the Weimar Republic was ~ when it became a Nazi regime. They also admitted that they had seen that food was being stockpiled and not getting to the people. They said that they had seen no tangible help from Europe and the U.S. reach Russia, and yet our media made it sound like we were feeding the hungry Russian people. After starving for years, just like the Germans during their trial period with democracy after W.W. I, the Russians don t care if they go to war, or if they are led by a dictator. They just want to be taken care of and feel the same pride they had in their country when the world feared and respected them. Several books could be written about the details in this news release, including several books about how the United States is practically defenseless. Americans keep bearing the mantra "We are the world's only superpower." And every time it is said, godly people should remember the truth, "Pride goes before the fall." America s early warning system, our radar network that told us when enemy bombers were 2,000 miles away, was shut down by President Bush. So now we have our eyes closed. If that were not enough to be defeated, Clinton made an executive order which forbids the military from reacting to a Russian first strike. Our generals and admirals must wait until the first strike bits, before they can respond. This is like going into the boxing ring and saying "Give me your best hit". Well, the Russians are ready to give us their best hit, and it will be a knock out punch. It used to be that we would launch our missiles when we detected theirs being launched and the missiles would cross mid-air and blow up both countries. Now we are to absorb their first strike. That is why their first strike is targeted to knock out our naval bases and submarines. They have produced enormous numbers of killer submarines which greatly outnumber our submarines and these will attack to eliminate any submarines at sea. Except for our mobile subs, the U.S. no longer has mobile missiles, but only a reduced number in fixed locations. We are building a new defensive system that has not been brought on line. Now is ideal for them to strike, The downsizing and budget cuts have greatly weakened our military. Plus our leaders have done everything possible behind the scenes to weaken us, claiming that this was the peace dividend from the fail of communism, and necessary to balance their budget. Obviously a few of our missiles will get past their excellent Anti-ballistic Missile Defense system (by the way, we have no ABM system). This means that the Russians will receive a few casualties, but these will be minor compared to the damage that we receive. There are many reasons why the Russians need to strike soon, or lose their capability. Their own nuclear weapons are corroding and decaying. They also face a worse Y2K problem than we do with their military computers. Their military leaders are now publicly urging that the Russians do something with their military to stop the bombing of Yugoslavia. The groundwork has been laid for the Russian people to believe that they have the moral high ground in launching a nuclear first strike. We are seen as the aggressors who created this Yugoslavian crisis. The Russian people have seen women and children killed by our bombs. The Russian government warned the United States that it would take it very seriously if any harm came to the many Russians in Yugoslavia. The Russian embassy was very close to one of the sites which was just recently destroyed by NATO bombs. The Russian military now has a complete advantage over the United States, and in their eyes every reason to strike us. Will they? Many clues and inside reports from all over confirm that this is exactly where we are headed. In fact, we only have days from now. By the time this report reaches you, we will be very short on time. I apologize that this warning is so late. On the other hand, there have been many visions received recently by devout Christians warning of what this news report states. Even the reported prophecies by the Virgin Mary in Yugoslavia years ago, said W.W. III would break out this way. (I don t believe that "she" was honestly the Virgin Mary, but that the enemy manufactured those reports so that people would later recall them and say that this W.W. III was God's  will and that we could not do anything about it. The truth is,  it is a World Order script that has been well orchestrated behind the scenes.) One of the important areas to watch to see if war is to break out is North Korea which will join Russia. North Korea recently had 7 spy ships chased away from Japan  by the Japanese navy. It was reported that the Japanese navy fired hostile shots for the first time since W.W. II. These are the kind of incidents that one will see before a major operation. Before any offensive, probes will be made to learn day to day intelligence. An increase in probing and spying is an alarm. North Korea has been very volatile, and the situation looks like it is ready for a new war. When war breaks out, the script is that China will jump in on Russia's  side and seize Taiwan, now that we have no fleet to protect Taiwan. It is not difficult to imagine that Clinton and the NWO probably have planned it this way, when one remembers that Clinton is facing a scandal for having given the Chinese high tech for their military, and that they were spying during his administration on our best secrets. He also gave them the port facilities at Long Beach, CA. Mexico has been denouncing NATO s attacks. Isn't that strange? Mexico, who seems to be so close to America, is politically siding with Russia and Yugoslavia on this one. Eyewitnesses report how Mexico has been used to warehouse Russian heavy equipment for their next war against us. Teams of Mexicans have been highly trained by the Soviets (similar to our Delta teams) and are to be used during Russia's  takeover of the U.S. Mexican gangs and highly trained Mexican military teams are to be used for the house-to-house searches. Some have already received the addresses of the houses they are to receive (occupy) when certain American homeowners are evicted from their homes. Cuba will also be used as a base of operations against us. Further, millions of the recent immigrants into the United States have come here from Russia, China, Eastern Europe and Vietnam, and are programmed to cooperate with the destruction of America. The extent of the crisis looming over the horizon, is worsened by the fact that our government is loyal to the New World Order and can not be  trusted any more than the Chinese, Yugoslavians, or Russians. Many American mind-controlled slaves who work for the World Order are not being taken out of harms way. They are somewhat expendable in order to preserve the secrecy of this whole devious traitorous operation, They are being programmed with information to make them more survivable than the common ostrich-with-his-head-in- the-sand American. One of the items that is being programmed into these mind-controlled slaves is to not trust the American government after the nuclear attack. The American government will be sending people to concentration camps, and rounding up people they consider a threat for execution. These slaves are being programmed with instructions to help them sidestep and survive the tyranny of the American government after the war starts. We still have another final act before the bombs hit. Russia's  military will increase their sabre rattling and increase the tension. This is only a cover so that they can get their military in position. People are going to think that the Russian military is responding to Yugoslavian crisis, while in reality they are moving into position for W.W. III. After a short increase in tension, a false political breakthrough will occur, similar to the Japanese peace negotiations just before Pearl Harbor. The U.S. will relax at this political breakthrough and then the attack will hit. Our time is very short, Prepare a shelter, get Potassium Iodide. Take Calcium, Potassium, Zinc, and Vitamin B-12. Have some foods like chocolate bars as morale boosters. We will be underground for several weeks. ******* NOTE:  ORGANIC iodine is preferred by many alternative health experts  over potassium iodine. ******* PLEASE REPOST ******* [Unable to display image]BACK >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 02:22:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA14927; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:20:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:20:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199904150920.TAA24696@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:53:02 Subject: Re: Water electrolyte experiment Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"HXZ0v2.0.8f3.dzQ5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nice tests. I thought it's sodium 'bi-carbonate'. What does that mean anyway? I'm interested in any developments in the electrolysis field. What do you mean by 'multi-cells' and 'neutral plates'? On 13 Apr 99 at 22:01, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > To: Browns Gas & Joe Cell Researchers > Re: Water electrolyte experiment > > Tests with simple electrolytic cells have determined that baking soda, > sodium hydrogen carbonate, works as an excellent water electrolyte to lower > the water resistance for efficient hydrolysis to occur. > > Observations: > 1. The vapour off the water surface is odourless and neutral, in opposition > to salt and caustic electrolytes that produces toxic gas such as chlorine. > 2. The gas production off the stainless steel plates is vigorous with large > foams of hydrogen and oxygen gases quickly building on the water surface, > that makes a loud pop when ignited with a match. > 3. The water level expands due to the gases off the plates saturating the > water. > 4. The electrolytic cell holds an electric charge for a short time after > the dc power is cut off. > > Possibilities: > 1. More efficient gas production. Under a vacuum the gas bubbles off the > plates will expand and rise to the surface thereby leaving room for other > water molecules to gain access to the plates for electrolysis to occur. > 2. The volume of gas would increase, Boyle's Law, under a vacuum pump. > 3. Less power required for highly efficient electrolytic cell. > Multi-celled unit with neutral plates, as discovered by Rhodes, Brown and > Joe, allow high voltage and current without the need for transformers. > > Further tests are in the works. > > WITH SAFETY DISCLAIMER! _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Pop, in an uncontrolled environment Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, prefered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 05:56:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA22811; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:55:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:55:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199904151254.HAA10926@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Browns Gas Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:52:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AaVoy1.0.Fa5.g6U5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Aris, You may be oversimplifying , but those who venture off the main path are the ones who make the best discoveries. I am one who believes that we should not stumble over technology for the sake of technology. Here's a saying that I made up years ago, that helps us overcome fear of a project: "Complexity is nothing but multiplied simplicity." One day, long ago, a man walked up to a spot on the ground and laid a single brick.........the first brick making up the Empire State Building. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Aris > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Browns Gas > Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 12:10 AM > > > No Joe, I hav'nt. I have purchased Brown's Gas books 1 and 2 from George > > Wiseman but am embarrassed to say am having some trouble following > the > > Hmmm, what's wrong with the lay-out? > > > layout. I also plan to look into conventional methods of solar panel > > production so that I can understand more about the state of the art. > > Basicly it's like mixing some liquids and a cristal grows, which has to > be "sliced" and "wired"?? > > Or am I to simpleflying this solar"shit"?? > > > Regards, > > Aris... > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 05:57:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA23561; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:57:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:57:22 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199904150110.UAA29079@mercury.shreve.net> References: Conversation <199904150110.UAA29079@mercury.shreve.net> with last message <199904150110.UAA29079@mercury.shreve.net> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "FreeEnergyList" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Garry Whitman" Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor Date: Wed, 14 Apr 99 20:05:49 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"398UT2.0.2m5.n8U5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Robert I think I have solved your problem with the magnet cocking. If you will email your phone number and what time to call I can explain it much quicker than I can type it. The solution is what I call a trailing link guide. My mockup of the guide and magnets works. Garry whitman@brightok.net ---------- > Hello RB, Yes, if the running magnet does not hang up in the wheel, it will > continue to go around the > track. When the chaser magnet is put in its lowest position in the support > and allowed to hang with > the running magnet in front of it, the wheel will balance. It wont move. If > you tape 2 rolls of pennies to > the inside of the support of the chaser magnet and allow it to hang, the > balance has been offset. This > slight gravity offset has allowed the chaser magnet to repell the running > magnet futher causing it to > roll up the wheel. Since the running magnet cannot actually go up the > wheel, its weight turns the wheel. > As for cow magnets, I have not experimented with them in this > configuration. Regards, Robert H. Calloway > ---------- > > From: R B > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor > > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 6:01 PM > > > > Robert Calloway wrote, > > > > Another effect that I havent mentioned is, take the wheel out > > of its support and set it on a 2 1/2 inch wide board about 8 foot long. > > Attach 2 rolls of pennies to the inside of the chaser magnet support. > > The wheel will roll by itself until the running magnet cocks and drags > > on the side plate causing it to stop. The 2 rolls of pennies weight > > will cause the support to hang more vertical causing the running magnet > > to turn the whole wheel assembly down the track. Regards, Robert H. > > Calloway................ Robert, > > If your running magnet would not cock and you had a circular > > track, are you saying this would continue to roll? Do you think cow > > magnets would work in your design? RB > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 06:16:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29125; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:16:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:16:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199904151315.PAA09607@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: For King and Country.. Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:15:31 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kKktF3.0.-67.HQU5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Aris, > You may be oversimplifying , but those who venture off the main path are > the ones who make the best discoveries. I am one who believes that we I always said shit to the main path, so I give myself some credit...:-)).. > should not stumble over technology for the sake of technology. Here's a Can I borrow that line?? > saying that I made up years ago, that helps us overcome fear of a project: > "Complexity is nothing but multiplied simplicity." One day, long ago, a man This one too? > walked up to a spot on the ground and laid a single brick.........the first > brick making up the Empire State Building. The story of the american dream...:-)).. In Europe we say: for King and Country!!! > Joe Portman > ========== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 08:51:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA23163; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:48:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:48:56 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:48:09 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:45:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor In-reply-to: <8041-37151E4F-2505@postoffice-122.bryant.webtv.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2007ZXWMGVAKM X400-MTS-identifier: [;90841151409991/3666994@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"rW_Op3.0.qf5.dfW5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com RB, Cow magnets? Never herd of such a critter, do they attract cows? Bill webriggs@concentric.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 11:37:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26173; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:36:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:36:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199904151836.NAA29138@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:34:05 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2A5xO1.0.oO6.c6Z5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Plastic coated cow magnets are placed into the first stomach of the cow. Cows like the taste of metal, like nails, tin can lids etc, but they cannot process them and it leads to problems. The magnets catch the scrap which is later removed by the owner. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 > To: freenrg-l > Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor > Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 10:45 AM > > RB, > > Cow magnets? Never herd of such a critter, do they attract cows? > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 11:42:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA28059; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:40:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:40:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199904151840.NAA03819@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: For King and Country.. Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:38:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YDves1.0.Hs6.hAZ5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Aris, Anyone is welcome to anything I say over the inet and I hope it is helpful to some. Joe Portman Here's another of mine; "A man can learn a lot stumbling around in the dark" ========= ---------- > From: Aris > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: For King and Country.. > Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 8:15 AM > > > Aris, > > You may be oversimplifying , but those who venture off the main path are > > the ones who make the best discoveries. I am one who believes that we > > I always said shit to the main path, so I give myself some credit...:-)).. > > > should not stumble over technology for the sake of technology. Here's a > > Can I borrow that line?? > > > saying that I made up years ago, that helps us overcome fear of a > project: > > "Complexity is nothing but multiplied simplicity." One day, long ago, a > man > > This one too? > > > walked up to a spot on the ground and laid a single brick.........the > first > > brick making up the Empire State Building. > > The story of the american dream...:-)).. In Europe we say: for King and > Country!!! > > > Joe Portman > > ========== > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 11:48:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00124; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:46:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:46:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199904151846.NAA04716@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:44:13 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pIlMd2.0.n1.9GZ5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fried pie ? ========= ---------- > From: Zack Widup > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 10:58 PM > > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Aris wrote: > > > Dear Joe, > > > > I can go out and scan some pic of dry cow pies:-)).. > > > > BTW do you have any idea what happens when > > you put 5 Mvolt on a pie?? > > > > You get "pie in the sky"? :-) > > Zack > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 15:03:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27147; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:03:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:03:06 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: Lorentz force Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:55:17 +0200 Message-ID: <01be878a$a636d300$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"NXF1U.0.4e6.Q8c5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com HI >Has anyone tried any similar experiments? Is pure DC required, say from a >storage battery, or a capacitor discharge (rail gun) type circuit? I used a >simple supply with a 60Hz transformer, FWCT rectifier, and filter >capacitor. The output is about 2 volts under load at a current somewhat >greater than 100 Amps. Try a high current cap discharge as in a rail gun . A few BIG 200v caps hooked up in parallel will do the trick nicely. You will of course have to rig up a HV Trigger and spark gap switch (Anyone got any good ideas for those? ) Or if you can afford one a homopolar generator. It needs to be a short pulse. Very often the problem with these things is a spot welding that occurs between the projectiles and rails.Also the rails can become warped. Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 15:09:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA22083; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:09:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:09:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: Over-unity Adam/Bedini/Takahashi/Kawai devices Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:00:11 +0200 Message-ID: <01be878b$5585f980$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"5p_Ls1.0.yO5.2Ec5t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi >I am unfamiliar with the Brown device. Is there a web site or patent number >you can give me? The Brown has no patent that I have heard of. the only webpage detailing it is Geoff Egal's Solaris site. He has a version using permanent magnets. Browns used dc to obtain his fields. The Brown came about because of an experiment he did based on Eckilns US patent 3879622. Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 16:03:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16140; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:02:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:02:54 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990415230854.016cc7e0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:08:54 -0400 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Resent-Message-ID: <"oN8I91.0.3y3.U0d5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 03:36 AM 4/13/99 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >On 11/04/99 17:17:54, atech@ix.netcom.com wrote : >> Jean-Louis; >> >> Congratulations on your good work. >> > >Hi Dennis and all, > >Thanks for your comments, > >> Comment: Electrode surfaces could be smoother. It looks like the electrode >> annular plasma balls are somewhat randomly spaced by sharp points and edges >> on the rim. The geometry precision and surface smoothness should be such >> that the plasma balls are evenly spaced on the rim (easier to achieve when >> under vacuum). No observable (detectable) shape or smoothness >> irregularities. > >I fully agree with about the smoothness surface of the cupola, this will >increase the effect. because the medium will be able to flow at a higher >speed on the cupola surface, thus this will decrease the hydrostatic pressure >on the upper surface. This is an ElectroHydroDynamic effect and the shape and >the medium speed along a specific path (due to the shape, like a wing >profile) is very important for increasing the resulting thrust... > >> Do you have vacuum / belljar equipment (good to 1 or 2 Torr - w/ vacuum >> gauge - electrode volume should be 10% or less of belljar volume or there >> maybe heat accumulation issues - w/ force sensor)? If so, would you like to >> try a suggestion or two? >> > >Unfortunately, I don't have a vacuum chamber for testing the device, but I >hope to check this soon with some external help.... This has been fully >tested and checked by Townsend Brown in France, for more informations about >this you may read : > >"Electrogravitics Systems" ( Report on a new propulsion methodology) by >Thomas Valone - ISBN 0-9641070-0-7 > >and also : > >"L'effet Biefeld-Brown" by Alexandre Szames - (ASZ editions ISBN >2-913377-00-9 - EAN 9782913377004) ( >http://www.aes.com.freeservers.com/html/bbbook.htm ) > >Ps: I have updated my web site with three new videos about my EHD-FS v2.0 in >action and also some explanations about the EHD working principles with >computer simulations pictures at : >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/advprop.htm All I know is that if you test any asymmetrical electrode pair with hv under vacuum, you will see balls of plasma form. (Question - how might one conduct such an experiment so that one might be reasonably sure that the parameters of the tuned point just mentioned would be swept through and said phenomenon be observed?) Now what do these spinning plasma balls have to do with TTBrown? Why haven't I heard of this before? Do present computer simulations predict these plasma balls? What is the Corbino Effect? Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 17:04:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA06056; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:03:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:03:26 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990416000924.016d1320@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:09:24 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Machiavellian social resistance (skepticism)to unconventional wisdom Resent-Message-ID: <"JKMcm3.0.KU1.Dvd5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:33 AM 4/11/99 -0400, you wrote: >"Dennis C. Lee" wrote: > >> At 07:06 AM 4/7/99 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >Quite the point. But we're not writing about you but of the nature of >> >social resistance when consensus reality (as a meme) is challenged. >> >> I feel the point of this being that doubt (uncertain seems more appropriate) >> is a wrong response by society and should be corrected if possible. > >It is so much a part of society that it is easier to correct on an indvidual >level. This is the goal of many spiritual practices dealing with the ego as >a false projection or simulation of the self. The concept of "illusion" suggests >that "society" is a patholigical manifestation of the spirit which leads us to >the goal of being in the world but not of it. This correction is the basis of >the spiritual warrior practices or techniques. > >> >This paper was not prepared for CIA staff or line below administration. >> >It certainly was not prepared for CIA wannabes. >> > >> >It was used as the basis for the CIA admission that they, the Intelligence >> Community, >> >was and had long been involved in "psychic" espionage and as a means of >> publically >> >discounting the public revelations of former "Stargate" remote viewer David >> >Morehouse who blew the whistle. >> >> The last statement of an entity wanting the pogrom executed intentionally is >> curious. Why is it there? Unless this entity is in fact known to exist, it >> is pure speculation. The paper is of such length and complexity, I question >> whether it was placed there with the intent of giving credibility, and >> approval, to the pogrom concept for those whose reading skills are of lower >> levels. Close scrutiny will reveal an innocuous document however. >> >> If such an entity does exist, why does he not wished to be identified? > >The entity is known as a "black project" (cf. black box). Its nature is to be >unknown. > >The entity was identified and thus could not be denied. However, the entity >knowing the dynamics of the social mind uses it to minimize the significance >of its existence. > >The CIA does not deny Stargate or related "black projects" using >psychic research to conduct espionage but rather says: "as we all >know, these things do not really work." > >The "pogrom" in this case is the rendering of truth to be a lie and the rendering >of a lie to be the truth, which is what PR and other forms of doublespeak are >all about. It works. Note the illusion of a democratic republic. > >The reason why the "entity" does not wish to be identified is for reasons >of stealth. This is the same reason why we don't want our attack airplanes >seen on radar, and why Russia is denying there is no nuclear threat when >well beneath the Russian warships, our military knows are nuclear subs. > >> >But, hey, I thought "we" were on the same said. I get a little paranoid when >> >someone starts to polarize on my messages and when my posts to a list are >> >censored. It causes me to question whether there is some hidden agenda here >> >on this list relative to censorship of perception. What's here on this list >> that we're >> >not to see? >> > >> >This does not seem to be the physics of love at all, but the physics of >> supression. >> >> Sorry for giving this impression. I felt strongly that while it maybe true >> someone, somewhere, doesn't wish unconventional views to be identified and >> developed, this in no way suggests that such a desire is in anyway a good >> thing. In fact, given the latest satellite evidence of global warming and >> its' manmade causes (physicsweb.org - what's new) suppression of such views >> which will stop or reverse global warming, can be legally challenged under >> proper review of National Security guidelines. Government officials who >> propagate such suppression, risk administrative disciplinary action. >> > >Obviosly this is not a good thing. It is a part of the strategy of mystery = mastery >or the application of mushroom management: keep people in the dark and feed >them horse shit. Them = general public. It is the way of consensus reality. > >Welcome to the "real" world. So in order to avoid the (IMHO unlikely) possibility of (worse) chaos by letting the truth be known, the above directives are implemented thus insuring certain chaos in society? Anybody hear news of official forecasts for the upcoming hurricane season? 'They' are going to make us wait until everything is wrecked by the weather aren't they? Is there any scientific evidence that we needn't be concerned of such issues? What is a citizen supposed to be doing now? Are there any roles available other than victim? Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 18:02:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31143; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:02:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:02:18 -0700 Message-ID: <37168CA2.75E6EDCC@erie.net> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:04:34 -0400 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, free_energy@onelist.com, FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY References: <13f42b8d.244701ba@aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C7A2C14B1A7156946D22DB72" Resent-Message-ID: <"BXawP3.0.Ec7.Ome5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --------------C7A2C14B1A7156946D22DB72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ASu2431426@aol.com wrote: > From: ASu2431426@aol.com > > Why is the discussion always on scam artists or novelties like drinking > birds?. > > If you want to discuss over unity start with research and development work > by US Navy (Washington D.C. and China Lake), CEREM, NASA, Fiat, Motorola, > Bechtel, SRI, over 200 confirmations and we know of at least 20 active > corporate developments. > > You wont this is in your daily propaganda sheet...they all follow NEW YORK > TIMES which is covering for its advertisers. > > FTIR ASu2431426@aol.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Norm Biss responds. The obvious reason for the discussions turning to scam artists and novelties, is because there are so many scam artists, in addition to "Novelties" being foisted off on an unwary public. While not all experimentation is done with fraud in mind, there are more than a coincedential amount of less than scrupulous individuals, who are involved. Just as obvious, is the fact that almost everyone on these lists have subscribed for the purpose of staying informed as to progress in the various forms of FE/OU being investigated. Most list members are content to accept results as they are given. But in the final analysis, reproducible proof which is verifiable, is necessary to advance any given theory. WE are partly responsible for the abundance of scam artists, because we are not (In some cases), demanding proof of claims made by charlatans. IT IS UP TO US TO POLICE OUR OWN RANKS, AND WEED-OUT THESE PHONIES. In most cases, just a little common-sense coupled with logic will produce a plethora of questions that should be asked. WE are not asking these questions. I am now taking it upon myself to bring forth these questions. I realize that this is not going to sit too well with some subscribers, but I must pose these questions. Maybe it will get some of the other list members to start asking some hard questions themselves! Both Jed Rothwell and Mitchell Jones have had the courage to come forth and voice their opinions (Please note that I did not say skepticism) in regards to the "Newman Motor". In my opinion, I feel that Joseph Newman has milked the public and the Free Energy Movement for the last 20 years. Am I saying that his technology does not have merit? Absolutely not! What I am saying is that he came up with a theory (as yet unproven), but is incapable of personally seeing it thru to completion. I also personally feel that any REAL breakthrough of this technology will be accomplished by Stefan Hartman. Why? Because Stefan is very thorough in his approach to mastering Joe Newman's technology. Am I a big fan of Stefan Hartmann? No. I do, however respect the work ethic and documentation he performs with his experiments. When he performs tests, he not only gives the results, but more importantly he explains how the tests were conducted. This makes the results reproducible by anyone who cares to duplicate the experiment. This also guides others around the pitfalls that did not work. Now, let's apply the same set of standards to Joseph Newman. Joseph Newman announced on the first of February, that his motor was ready to go into production, and delivery was promised by June of this year. Before WE start cheering, let us examine, closely, exactly what is involved to do this. To take an electric motor from the prototype stage, to the production stage, requires about 6~9 months. Any manufacturer of this motor must purchase the necessary tooling, stamping dies, etc. After this is done, it must be assured that these parts are going to fit together in accordance with the schematics and drawings that Joe Newman provided them with. When production starts, the motor must be submitted to UL for testing and approval. Let me clarify something at this point: There is NO Federal law which requires a motor to be UL tested prior to sale. There are, however, several States that do require UL approval, and almost ALL major cities require the same for operation in their jurisdictions. Now lets assume that the motor is only going to be sold in those areas which do not have a requirement for UL approval. Fine. BUT, no insurance carrier will cover any damage or injury caused by a non-UL approved device. This UL approval will take about 4~6 months. Now, lets look at the cost of the motor. Joe Newman is asking for $7,000.00 for each motor. He is also asking for $3,500.00 down payment. If you will go to the following URL: http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic/biss.htm you will find that Joe Newman stated that there is $6,000.00 worth of Neodymium magnets in the prototype motor. (Remember that he is basing his test results on the motor with Neodymium magnets inside it). QUESTION: How can you sell a motor for 7G's, and put 6G's worth of magnets inside it? You can't! Now, if you were to replace the Neodymium magnets with Ceramic magnets, you could do it...........but, The neodymium magnets are rated at 12,000 gauss, while the ceramic magnets are rated at 4,100 gauss. These figures come from the biggest magnet manufacturer in the U.S. Furthermore, in addition to having a motor with about 1/3 the strength of the prototype, you are being given the ole "Bait-and-switch" tactic. Highly illegal. But, let's give Mr. Newman the benefit of the doubt, and assume that the motor he is selling does in fact have the proper magnets inside. He has stated that with 60 volts of lantern batterys, he has achieved 40 RPM. If you will check with your local "Grainger" dealer, he will show you that the AC generators must turn at 3600 RPM to generate electricity. This is 90 times the RPM of Joe Newman's motor tests. In his book, there is a notarized statement by Dr. Roger Hastings, in which he states (Quote) "To power the average home, the motor will require 10,000 Volts, to 20,000 Volts of input power"(End Quote). Now if we assume that the average 6 Volt Lantern Battery costs $3.00 each, this means that each volt costs fifty-cents. This means that in addition to spending $7,000.00 for a motor, another $5,000.00 to $10,000.00 must be spent for batterys. But we can't put our checkbook away yet. Remember that this is just a motor. Now you must spend another $700.00~$800.00 for a Generator, which the motor will power. Oh yeah, there is still the matter of hiring an electrician to make sure that the system is properly configured, in accordance with the electric code. I do not understand how anyone can attempt to even consider buying a motor which has such big claims made for it, but with no proof of testing procedures used to arrive at the figures given for it's capabilities. Finally, I think you must consider the character of the individual making claims for a device, which for the last 20 years, he has been saying will be on sale in a few months. Now I realize that some of the most inventive geniuses in recorded history had some pretty bizarre quirks in their makeup. I personally do NOT have any respect for an individual who would marry an 8-year-old girl, and then say the reason for it was because GOD told him to do it. The following two URL's are articles from the Mobile Press Register Newspaper, Mobile Alabama, and dated the 11th and 14 of August, 1989. These were obtained from the Newspapers Archives, and certified as to their authenticity. The first URL tells of his "Marriage" to his child-bride, and the second URL explains how, three days later, the courts awarded custody of the little girl, and her three year old brother, to the state. Newman was peeved because they took away his child-bride. http://www.phact.org/e/z/8yr.gif http://www.phact.org/e/z/custody.gif If I have offended anybody with my frankness, I apologize. However, everytime one of these scam artists gets funding from private individuals, not only does it take away funding from adherents who are sincere, but has the effect of painting ALL FE/OU experimenters as frauds. I think it is time for US to clean our own house, before the public does it for us. Thank you. Respectfully, Norm Biss Erie, Pa. 4-15-99 normpems@erie.net --------------C7A2C14B1A7156946D22DB72 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
 
 
 
 

ASu2431426@aol.com wrote:

From: ASu2431426@aol.com

Why is the discussion always on scam artists or novelties like drinking
birds?.

If you want to  discuss over unity start with  research and development work
by US Navy (Washington D.C. and China Lake), CEREM, NASA, Fiat, Motorola,
Bechtel, SRI, over 200 confirmations and we know of at least 20 active
corporate developments.

You wont this is in your daily propaganda sheet...they all follow NEW YORK
TIMES which is covering for its advertisers.

FTIR   ASu2431426@aol.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Norm Biss responds.

The obvious reason for the discussions turning to scam artists and novelties, is because there are
so many scam artists, in addition to "Novelties" being foisted off on an unwary public.  While not
all experimentation is done with fraud in mind, there are more than a coincedential amount of less
than scrupulous individuals, who are involved.

Just as obvious, is the fact that almost everyone on these lists have subscribed for the purpose of
staying informed as to progress in the various forms of FE/OU being investigated.  Most list members
are content to accept results as they are given.  But in the final analysis, reproducible proof which
is verifiable, is necessary to advance any given theory.

WE are partly responsible for the abundance of scam artists, because we are not (In some cases),
demanding proof of claims made by charlatans.  IT IS UP TO US TO POLICE OUR OWN
RANKS, AND WEED-OUT THESE PHONIES.

In most cases, just a little common-sense coupled with logic will produce a plethora of questions
that should be asked.  WE are not asking these questions.  I am now taking it upon myself to
bring forth these questions.

I realize that this is not going to sit too well with some subscribers, but I must pose these questions.
Maybe it will get some of the other list members to start asking some hard questions themselves!

Both Jed Rothwell and Mitchell Jones have had the courage to come forth and voice their opinions
(Please note that I did not say skepticism) in regards to the "Newman Motor".

In my opinion, I feel that Joseph Newman has milked the public and the Free Energy Movement
for the last 20 years.   Am I saying that his technology does not have merit?  Absolutely not!  What
I am saying is that he came up with a theory (as yet unproven), but is incapable of personally
seeing it thru to completion.  I also personally feel that any REAL breakthrough of this technology
will be accomplished by Stefan Hartman.  Why?  Because Stefan is very thorough in his approach
to mastering Joe Newman's technology.  Am I a big fan of Stefan Hartmann?  No.  I do, however
respect the work ethic and documentation he performs with his experiments.  When he performs
tests, he not only gives the results, but more importantly he explains how the tests were conducted.
This makes the results reproducible by anyone who cares to duplicate the experiment.  This also
guides others around the pitfalls that did not work.

Now, let's apply the same set of standards to Joseph Newman.  Joseph Newman announced on the
first of February, that his motor was ready to go into production, and delivery was promised by
June of this year.  Before WE start cheering, let us examine, closely, exactly what is involved to do
this.

To take an electric motor from the prototype stage, to the production stage, requires about 6~9
months.  Any manufacturer of this motor must purchase the necessary tooling, stamping dies, etc.
After this is done, it must be assured that these parts are going to fit together in accordance with
the schematics and drawings that Joe Newman provided them with.  When production starts, the
motor must be submitted to UL for testing and approval.  Let me clarify something at this point:
There is NO Federal law which requires a motor to be UL tested prior to sale.  There are,
however, several States that do require UL approval, and almost ALL major cities require the same
for operation in their jurisdictions.  Now lets assume that the motor is only going to be sold in those
areas which do not have a requirement for UL approval.  Fine.  BUT, no insurance carrier will
cover any damage or injury caused by a non-UL approved device.  This UL approval will take
about 4~6 months.

Now, lets look at the cost of the motor.  Joe Newman is asking for $7,000.00 for each motor.
He is also asking for $3,500.00 down payment.  If you will go to the following URL:

http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic/biss.htm

you will find that Joe Newman stated that there is $6,000.00 worth of Neodymium magnets in the
prototype motor.  (Remember that he is basing his test results on the motor with Neodymium
magnets inside it). QUESTION:  How can you sell a motor for 7G's, and put 6G's worth of magnets
inside it?  You can't!  Now, if you were to replace the Neodymium magnets with Ceramic magnets,
you could do it...........but, The neodymium magnets are rated at 12,000 gauss, while the ceramic
magnets are rated at 4,100 gauss.  These figures come from the biggest magnet manufacturer in
the U.S.  Furthermore, in addition to having a motor with about 1/3 the strength of the prototype,
you are being given the ole "Bait-and-switch" tactic.  Highly illegal.

But, let's give Mr. Newman the benefit of the doubt, and assume that the motor he is selling does
in fact have the proper magnets inside.  He has stated that with 60 volts of lantern batterys, he has
achieved 40 RPM.  If you will check with your local "Grainger" dealer, he will show you that the
AC generators must turn at 3600 RPM to generate electricity.  This is 90 times the RPM of Joe
Newman's motor tests.  In his book, there is a notarized statement by Dr. Roger Hastings, in
which he states (Quote) "To power the average home, the motor will require 10,000 Volts, to
20,000 Volts of input power"(End Quote).  Now if we assume that the average 6 Volt Lantern
Battery costs $3.00 each, this means that each volt costs fifty-cents.  This means that in addition
to spending $7,000.00 for a motor, another $5,000.00 to $10,000.00 must be spent for batterys.
But we can't put our checkbook away yet.  Remember that this is just a motor.  Now you must spend another $700.00~$800.00 for a Generator, which the motor will power.  Oh yeah, there
is still the matter of hiring an electrician to make sure that the system is properly configured, in
accordance with the electric code.

I do not understand how anyone can attempt to even consider buying a motor which has such
big claims made for it, but with no proof of testing procedures used to arrive at the figures given
for it's capabilities.

Finally, I think you must consider the character of the individual making claims for a device, which
for the last 20 years, he has been saying will be on sale in a few months.  Now I realize that some
of the most inventive geniuses in recorded history had some pretty bizarre quirks in their makeup.
I personally do NOT have any respect for an individual who would marry an 8-year-old girl, and
then say the reason for it was because GOD told him to do it.

The following two URL's are articles from the Mobile Press Register Newspaper, Mobile Alabama,
and dated the 11th and 14 of August, 1989.  These were obtained from the Newspapers Archives,
and certified as to their authenticity.  The first URL tells of his "Marriage" to his child-bride, and
the second URL explains how, three days later, the courts awarded custody of the little girl, and her
three year old brother, to the state.  Newman was peeved because they took away his child-bride.

http://www.phact.org/e/z/8yr.gif

http://www.phact.org/e/z/custody.gif

If I have offended anybody with my frankness, I apologize.  However, everytime one of these scam
artists gets funding from private individuals, not only does it take away funding from adherents who
are sincere, but has the effect of painting ALL FE/OU experimenters as frauds.  I think it is time for
US to clean our own house, before the public does it for us.

Thank you.

Respectfully,

Norm Biss
Erie, Pa.
4-15-99

normpems@erie.net
  --------------C7A2C14B1A7156946D22DB72-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 20:15:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01861; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:14:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:14:57 -0700 From: dtmiller@nevia.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hamster Cage Motor Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:14:10 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@nevia.net Message-ID: <3719a496.22859758@mail.nevia.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA01842 Resent-Message-ID: <"EdY501.0.-S.nig5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill, Cow magnets prevent "hardware disease" in cows. :) (Hardware disease is when cows happen to chomp down metal -- usually ferrous -- and it ends up in their stomach. The magnet is designed to be swallowed by the cow as if it's a big gelatin capsule, and it holds the metal in one clump, which is later removed by surgery. 30 years ago I had an office next to the guy who held the patent on the magnet shape and use.) On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:45:24 -0400 (EDT), Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: >Cow magnets? Never herd of such a critter, do they attract cows? Dean T. Miller, CDP From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 15 21:40:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22443; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:39:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:39:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990415200049.2a376136@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:00:49 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force In-Reply-To: <01be878a$a636d300$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GCl3d.0.VU5.Ryh5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9931 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Martin and all, At 11:55 PM 4/15/99 +0200, you wrote: >HI > >>Has anyone tried any similar experiments? Is pure DC required, say from a >>storage battery, or a capacitor discharge (rail gun) type circuit? I used a >>simple supply with a 60Hz transformer, FWCT rectifier, and filter >>capacitor. The output is about 2 volts under load at a current somewhat >>greater than 100 Amps. > >Try a high current cap discharge as in a rail gun . A few BIG 200v caps >hooked up in parallel will do the trick nicely. You will of course have to >rig up a HV Trigger and spark gap switch (Anyone got any good ideas for >those?) I will try soon my magnetizer with a large SCR switch. Although in a magnetizer the SCR is protected somewhat by the coil limiting the di/dt so that the SCR doesn't develop hot spots and burn out :-(. The total capacitance is about 50,000uF at 200 Volts (10 units connected in parallel with copper strap). With the currents I'm achieving the crosspieces are definitely held down. If I tilt the rails so the rod crosspiece can roll, then turn on the current, the rod stops dead. The current is such that a straight segment of wire will pick up paper clips. Am not sure now what higher currents will do. > >Or if you can afford one a homopolar generator. It needs to be a short >pulse. Very often the problem with these things is a spot welding that >occurs between the projectiles and rails.Also the rails can become warped. No I cannot buy a commercial homopolar generator! With my supply I can run it intermittent many seconds at a time. I am not looking for a rail gun per se, but the unusual behavior with high currents, Ampere vs. Lorentz. > >Regards >Martin >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 00:04:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA17375; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:04:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:04:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:04:10 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY In-Reply-To: <37168CA2.75E6EDCC@erie.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JPG_Q3.0.KF4.k3k5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Norm Biss wrote: > He is also asking for $3,500.00 down payment. If you will go to the following > URL: > > http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic/biss.htm Hi Norm! I just now read the later additions to your above website. Want some free advice? (Perhaps worth only what it costs!) I've been drawn into flamewars many times over my years on internet, and have gradually figured out what it takes to come out on top (or at least to not be dragged down.) When running FREENRG-L and frequently dealing with enraged crackpots, I've had a chance to hone my skills. When fighting with an asshole in public, it is important to realize that hurting your opponent is not the goal. The goal is to show your audience exactly what your opponent really is like. A second worthwhile goal is to turn your opponent's attacks around so he ends up hurting his own cause. With this in mind, clearly it is critically important to behave with total squeaky-clean integrity. Respond to accusations by calmly telling the whole truth, ESPECIALLY IF PARTS OF IT MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. Don't stretch the truth the least little bit, and the lies of your opponent will become staggeringly obvious. Under no circumstances use any of the foul tactics that your opponent uses, and this especially goes for lying and for NAMECALLING. If your opponent spews ugly names and accusations at you, and you do the same back to him, onlookers will assume that you simply hate each other. They'll assume that anything either of you say is twisted-up crap caused by anger, and that the fight is just another internet "flamewar", the same as all the others. People will ignore both of you. On the other hand, if your opponent descends into namecalling yet you do not, then onlookers will realize that you are not being driven by anger, and therefor they will take all of your words very seriously. And they will ignore the ravings of your opponent! When an asshole attacks a person of integrity, it becomes very clear which one is which. When I read your website and see you and Mr. Newman trading nasty names, my instant assumption is that the two of you have just had some kind of falling-out, and that your accusations are caused by hurt feelings, not by any real events. I assume that you both are stretching the truth in order to make the other guy look bad. Then I have to remind myself that I've seen the type of crap that Newman pulls, and I realize that your complaints are the ones to trust. But then I think, "Oh damn, the people who don't know about Newman are going to see this fight just like I did at first: as two honest but angry people who are upset about a business deal which has gone bad." There's a saying... "never wrestle with a pig, since you'll get all filthy, and the pig enjoys it." By calling Mr. Newman names, rather than by responding to his nasty epithets with calm respect, you've lost the fight. Your own namecalling makes it look like a tiff between two Joe Newmans. Instead if you could respond with impeccable integrity, it would make Joe's accusations look like the desparate manuverings of a liar who's been caught. I suspect that, deep inside, Joe Neman knows that if he can get you to respond with anger and namecalling, he will keep you from being taken seriously. In other words, he now has you right where he wants you. Sorry to be so blunt. I had hoped that finally somebody was going to show the world just who Newman really is. But now I'm frustrated because Joe avoided the trap, and got you to descend towards his level. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 00:49:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA25179; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:49:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:49:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:48:58 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"He3B71.0.K96.kjk5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, free_energy@onelist.com, FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY Norm: I see that someone has started another FE discussion group, FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com. Is that yours? I'm sure that there are plenty of people who have stories to tell. There are many honest FE investigators who search for private funding in order to continue their research. As long as success is elusive, investors are going to put up money with no results to show for it. But there are also a few "snake" types of people who see nothing wrong with masquerading as legitimate maverick scientists in order to make money. How to tell the difference? I think its quite hard, because the dishonest people often have been lying for so long that they eventually believe their own lies, and aren't quite lying anymore. And an angry investor might be the victim of a scam, or might just be pissed off about the inventor's lack of success. As long as secrecy is the order of the day, it will be impossible to tell who is who. Without secrecy, the task would be much easier. Follow the money. Is it being used for research, or is it ending up as an enormous personal salary? Test the devices. Does the inventor claim success, but always have excuses for why the device cannot be tested? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 01:57:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02802; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:56:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:56:25 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <385da2c3.24485515@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 04:55:49 EDT Subject: A 30kv DC Power supply for the EHD-FS... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"cxTcx1.0.dh.vil5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear All, I have updated my web site with my new HV Power supply, my EHD-FS works very well with this... http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/30kvgen.htm You will find all diagrams, pictures, about this device. Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 06:33:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13551; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:30:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:30:57 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990416133725.016ae34c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:37:25 -0400 To: William Beaty , freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY Resent-Message-ID: <"rrPDk3.0.SJ3.Gkp5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:48 AM 4/16/99 -0700, William Beaty wrote: >As long as secrecy is the order of the day, >it will be impossible to tell who is who. 'Black Project' protocall ... oh forget it. Government protecting the interests of Free Energy researchers from machinations? How would anyone get reelected? >Without secrecy, the task would be much easier. Follow the money. Is it >being used for research, or is it ending up as an enormous personal >salary? Test the devices. Does the inventor claim success, but always >have excuses for why the device cannot be tested? By the same token, where is the money coming from? Will work just end up classified and put on a shelf? If a sculpture with anomolous plasma phenomena associated with asymmetrical electrodes (and possibly the Biefeld-Brown effect) is acceptable, I could come up with that. The sculpture would have to end up on public display at a Science Museum or the like however. A certain Jed person mentions new stuff is worth $10,000.00 a prototype. Being up front and center is no problem with me. Otherwise, I'll probably just explain what I can here. If you guys out there are playing chicken with global weather catastrophy, I give up, you win. Dennis Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 07:51:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07348; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:50:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:50:15 -0700 Message-ID: <004401be8818$7cf3d5e0$c1c0fea9@y9g6r3> From: "atg0317" To: Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:50:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LyOUC1.0.jo1.buq5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com From: Dennis C. Lee To: William Beaty ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY >At 12:48 AM 4/16/99 -0700, William Beaty wrote: > >>As long as secrecy is the order of the day, >>it will be impossible to tell who is who. > This is not just a perception by an individual, yet can be countered by the other side saying, hey PROVE IT, just show me the projects your talking about, the ones you think are hidden. Now we all know the media does not report on "Black" projects, and anyone that admits to having confirmable knowledge is a class FOOL. >'Black Project' protocall ... oh forget it. Government protecting the >interests of Free Energy researchers from machinations? How would anyone get >reelected? > One of Webster's definitions for "Black" is, 'very deep or low register'. Conspiracy thinking usually involves the (a) government, but this makes little sense when looking at Free Energy. Weapons yes!, control yes!, but I just can't feature their futuristic views as wanting to be in the Utilities business. Now private corporations, that's a real thought. If you have a device come to Texas and I'll cut a deal for us both. If we could ever live to spend it I think we could beat Gates hands down, yet a device will never be built and its existance will never hit the media. This must be sarcasm, right ? Does anyone still beleive that the people are responsible for election results ? >>Without secrecy, the task would be much easier. Follow the money. Is it >>being used for research, or is it ending up as an enormous personal >>salary? Test the devices. Does the inventor claim success, but always >>have excuses for why the device cannot be tested? > Once anyone claims success, 'IT FAILS' for any number of reasons 'very deep or low register' types. If it is real it will be made to fail and debunked as such, along with the inventor. Announcement on the Internet to the Public is sure death (possibly real) NOT insurance that the whole world will have it and it can not be obscured and taken back from them. Really.... >By the same token, where is the money coming from? Will work just end up >classified and put on a shelf? For sure. The reaction time to a release of a working device would be at the speed of light. You never hear of the offices, garages, homes, ISP's that just disappear from the face of the earth along with material, files, machines, etc., if you think this is false I know of a business in Dallas that will indicate just what can happen (even unfounded) like didn't have anything in the first place. The concept proved to be a big enough threat. >If you guys out there are playing >chicken with global weather catastrophy, I give up, you win. > Sorry! If you beleive this then THEY have won and WE have lost. > >Dennis > >Unified Field Art >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 08:32:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA24454; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:30:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:30:13 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990416153645.016df20c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:36:45 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY Resent-Message-ID: <"WkJp_1.0._z5.5Ur5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 09:50 AM 4/16/99 -0500, you wrote: >>If you guys out there are playing >>chicken with global weather catastrophy, I give up, you win. >> > >Sorry! If you beleive this then THEY have won and WE have lost. What do they win though? First you say that working with the technology is major harassment if not death. Then you say that the consequences not developing this technology is as bad if not worse than working on stuff. Of course, there's no one to ask in government one way or the other. Or is there? I suppose pressing Zimmerman for hardcopy reason why he moved the Free Energy Conference would really be asking for it. Any suggestions as to what one does in such a situation? Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 09:39:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26285; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:38:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:38:46 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01be8827$a4d86620$c1c0fea9@y9g6r3> From: "atg0317" To: Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:37:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"VxX8j.0.YQ6.LUs5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com From: Dennis C. Lee To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY Well unless things change in our society and the world in general, I am a convert. Still working around the clock on development, yet putting all paper in the chipper. If I get there, get a device, I'll attempt to cut a deal. YES! I'll be honest. Would you give up everything you have to come and support me and my device when I'm up against the wall ? Very, doubtful. How many off the street people even understand the concept of what Free Energy means to the world and civilization ? Really when 73% coming out of our schools can't answer 6x8/2, you think humanity would be served ? >>Sorry! If you beleive this then THEY have won and WE have lost. > >What do they win though? > Boy, I can't answer that in the years I have left, but I can give a short example which might indicate a small basis for my statement. The story 'must be stated this way :-)' goes that a person questioned a transportation department engineer about the final out come of a billion dollar freeway design and the removal of about half of the exit and entrance ramps, requiring many additional miles by tens of thousands of drivers to get to where they normally got before, in a much shorter distance. The engineer asked, 'Do you want the Spin or the Real answer ?', the citizen replied, the real of course. The engineer said 'To increase traffic flow and reduce accidents', as he displayed the largest of grins. The citizen for a moment felt shame, how could he have ever thought otherwise. The citizen replied, 'Wow, accident cost and loss of productivity must be high indeed for the government to pay this amount of tax payer money to reduce it ?' The engineer smiles again as he reassures the citizen that this is a small amount compared to the taxes to be collected on the added fuel cost due to the additional miles driven by those tens of thousands of people each day'. The engineer walks off as the citizen thought, 'What, what did he mean ?'. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 11:05:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02507; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:04:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:04:05 -0700 Message-ID: <000101be8833$93617560$c1c0fea9@y9g6r3> From: "atg0317" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Question For The Minds. Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:03:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kc0RF2.0.4d.Lkt5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I was coached some years ago by an individual that proclaimed to be able to see the human aura. I had to that point considered it to be a gift rather than something learned. I was told that anyone could learn, so I asked to be taught. So I was, BUT!, I have since seriously doubted just what this skill really is. My scientific side says its a parlor trick, an optical illusion, but I now want to ask the great minds for input. The method taught me is to look directly at the object but shift the focus to where you are looking at the outline of the object rather than directly into the object. The best background is a White or Light background. This was first shown to me by being instructed to hold ones hands out in front of ones self and focus as stated above. You start to see a (mine was white at first) fringe around the fingers. Then if you point the fingers together about 1/2" apart you can see this white fringe start to grow and finally connect between the fingers. I was so amazed I admit I fell hook line and sinker (maybe). I carried the experiments farther to where I observed the phenomena while using a bio-feedback monitor. The fringe color and extend varied in accordance with the state of relaxation. Granted blood pressure could be the guy her in that the eye pressure and focus could change as such. Anyway has anyone seem anything on this, fact or fiction. I would really hate to discard the ability if its something real. Please no white coated respondents. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 12:14:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02472; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:13:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:13:45 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990416192009.016ee270@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:20:09 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win Resent-Message-ID: <"LPxTs3.0.Oc.elu5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 11:37 AM 4/16/99 -0500, you wrote: >Well unless things change in our society and the world in general, I am a >convert. Still working around the clock on development, yet putting all >paper in the chipper. If I get there, get a device, I'll attempt to cut a >deal. YES! I'll be honest. Would you give up everything you have to come and >support me and my device when I'm up against the wall ? Very, doubtful. How >many off the street people even understand the concept of what Free Energy >means to the world and civilization ? Really when 73% coming out of our >schools can't answer 6x8/2, you think humanity would be served ? OK, I'm finally convinced. It's a waste of time working in this Free Energy area. And the CF stuff doesn't really interest me. I think I'm going to build that tornado proof geodeisic dome cluster. If you'd like to see a bitmap (soon to be 3D solid) of the design, download and install the Dreamland browser, log into Dreamland, and teleport to coordinates 46S 13W. All you people out there, should the need for extra heavy duty housing arise in the future, check the Dreamland site. First estimates of the construction costs is $20.00/square foot. Concrete shell, 2x8 framing, 7" insulation, plywood, and drywall. 25' diameter, 15' height. When you guys come up with an energy device, I'll buy one and retrofit it to the domes. So, you CIA guys don't be too quick to bump me off, you might need to buy my dome cluster design. BTW, I'd almost be insulted if you guys didn't plant a bug or something here. What, you don't think I'm good enough to come up with something? So if you are watching, keep an eye on my stuff when I'm out and about, OK? Let's see, who will be out to crush me for building domes? The real estate construction magnates, eh? Later folks; Dennis Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun! http://www.artbellchatclub.com Wait a minute, we could upload 3D models of CF apparatus (or Free Energy Devices) into a VR dome room! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 12:17:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03829; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:16:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:16:46 -0700 Message-ID: <19990416191655.2944.rocketmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:16:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Trent Subject: Update me To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"3ApA21.0.kx.Uou5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, I used to follow this list a few years ago, but lost interest. What's the current status of Greg Watson's SMOT kits? Has he turned out to not have actual OU or? Has anything happened with RQM (http://www.rqm.ch), like someone has a report of one of their generators operating etc? What currently looks like the most promising line of inquiry/experimentation for a working OU generator? Thanks, Trent _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 16:40:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13984; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:39:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:39:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:39:06 -0800 From: "bob macelvain" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: on X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win X-Sender-Ip: 209.12.236.133 Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2eCls3.0.DQ3.5fy5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ... ... dennis ... ... ... i empathize with your view(s) ... ... ... why should i feel so paranoid just because everybody (mostly the government) is out to get me? ... ... america has been in a planned "dumb-down" mode ever since the battle of waterloo ... ... ... don't fight it! ... ... ... as dr. strangelove so succinctly stated, "stop worrying and learn to love the bomb" ... ... ... don't expect any support from your 'dumbed-down' neighbors and so-called, 'friends' ... ... ... you're rocking the boat ... downright dangerous! ... in this present-day 'ant-hill' society, you are little more than "dog meat" ... ... ... learn from history ... ... ... don't get mad, get even ... ... ... actually prevail ... ... ... you can do it! ... ... ... all you have to do is think .... ... ... bob ... ... Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 18:06:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10244; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:05:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:05:38 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Update me Message-Id: <924311103.16134.617@excite.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:05:03 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"gmPNU1.0.rV2.Xvz5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:16:55 -0700 (PDT), Trent wrote: > Hi, > I used to follow this list a few years ago, but lost > interest. > > What currently looks like the most promising line of > inquiry/experimentation for a working OU generator? > > Thanks, > Trent Hmm, lets see maybe you havent seen this, it usually gets some danders up because of the faster than light implications that are easily explained away as being an inductive effect of the huge coil. Nevertheless an effect is then being made in time prior than the actual signal propagation at the speed of light. My thinking is that echoes will exist inside the coils where the electrons never reach the end of the coil. This of course implies that more electrons are osscillating inside the coil than are simultaneously entering and leaving the coils. From Aug 98 to this latest entry I discovered a unique way to make a coil, or rather two of them vibrate between series and parallel resonances. A load can be placed in the circuit at this point between what I have described as unobvious potentials.The currents across this load come from opposite directions and form a unity so that an approximately dead short condition with little resistance in the load will avail itself of twice the amperage contained in either end of the loads connections. Sound impossible? Not when each of these currents are themselves alternating 180 degrees out of phase and share the same path in opposite directions. Begins to sound something like a conjugate phase reflection. Each of the currents in a parallel resonant circuit are 180 degrees out of phase: I have simply reconfigured the circuit so that each of these pathways can be used by both in opposite directions of travel. I have named this circuit the BINARY RESONANT SYSTEM I have named it a system because of what happens when the load is removed. The proper understanding of how the circuit was initally concieved is in order here. A definition of an unobvious potential is contained in the fact that a series resonant circuit can have much higher voltages locked up inside the two capacitive and inductive elements where these voltages are against each other. When we say that the voltages across the inductor and capacitor are 180 degrees out of phase in series resonance this implies that they are in opposite voltage directions which the resultant input AC voltage being the resultant cancellation voltage. It also stands to reason that the midpoint of the circuit becomes strongly negative and strongly positive during each cycle of the AC input because of the unobvious potential. Now when the midpoint is negative we might call this an unobvious compression of electrons; and when positive an unobvious vaccuum of electrons. To obtain an interaction BETWEEN these two unobvious potentials we would want to create both of these at the same time. To do this we could create a conjugate or mirror image series resonant phase; hence the name binary. This opposite phase will simply be the same series resonant phase plugged in backwards to the AC source input. Thus we have two series resonant phases @180 degrees out of phase. Now when we measure the potential between the midpoints of these two circuits we indeed find that twice the voltage exists across the middle than inside either side alone. Essentially this circuit can become a switch that when open creates a twin series resonance and when closed a single modified parallel resonance of twice the internal resistance. In the system I have constructed with 56 H coils the wall voltage of 120 volts AC is enough to make an arc gap where a fluctuation between resonances can occur. When the arc leaps between the metal bars with a small air gap (itself connected to the midpoints) the impedance of the circuit rises 760 fold and extinguishes the arc. Then the opposite series resonant process creates 3000 volts creating another arc restarting the process. When we observe the magnetic field from these coils from a sensor to an oscilloscope we find a frequency of 166,000 hz. But the length of the wire is 9 miles long and for the electrons to reach the end of their travel path before polarity reversal would mean they were traveling faster than the speed of light. Isnt it possible in some viewpoints that either more electrons are oscillating in the coil than are being inputed; or some kind of faster than light longitudinal pulse occurs down the wire.? Pure speculation here. It would seem to me that this might be a way of creating electrons from the vacuum. >From BRS http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 PS To give an idea of comparison a tesla 1/4 wave resonator would have to be about 1500 ft to resonate at 166,000 hz., yet these coils have about 47,500 ft and still ring at their natural resonant frequency due to the high internal capacitance of the 20,000 adjacent winds of 23 gauge wire. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 18:11:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11894; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:10:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:10:41 -0700 From: RoConroy@aol.com Message-ID: <8afa09e4.2449393e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:09:18 EDT Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: RoConroy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"8ah7q3.0.fv2.G-z5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/16/99 2:20:08 PM Central Daylight Time, atech@ix.netcom.com writes: << All you people out there, should the need for extra heavy duty housing arise in the future, check the Dreamland site. First estimates of the construction costs is $20.00/square foot. Concrete shell, 2x8 framing, 7" insulation, plywood, and drywall. 25' diameter, 15' height. When you guys come up with an energy device, I'll buy one and retrofit it to the domes. >> I already have a heavy duty dome built with a free energy device. Step by step plans are available for the free energy device on my WEB site. I even have an animated gif showing you how to build the thing. For the image impaired, I have step by step photos of the construction process. Detailed plans are available in a zip file located at a linked ftp site. Cost for the dome structure that is supplied with free energy was around $10/square foot. Cost for the free energy device using some salvaged material was around $200. I have two other simple free energy devices for the same dome, but have not yet uploaded that information. I also have links to an earth contact lightweight concrete dome I built with a different but similiar free energy device. The 2nd structure's cost was about $20/square foot, stove and refrigerator included in cost. Think simple, act responsibly. URL: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/grnhs24.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 18:25:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19035; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:25:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:25:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3717E285.5151E27A@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:23:17 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Update me References: <19990416191655.2944.rocketmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JWL4I.0.Gf4.3C-5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well Greg never delivered a thing and didn't refund. not much has happened with RQM. Trent wrote: > Hi, > I used to follow this list a few years ago, but lost > interest. > > What's the current status of Greg Watson's SMOT kits? > Has he turned out to not have actual OU or? > > Has anything happened with RQM (http://www.rqm.ch), > like someone has a report of one of their generators > operating etc? > > What currently looks like the most promising line of > inquiry/experimentation for a working OU generator? > > Thanks, > Trent > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 18:34:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA23688; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:34:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:34:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3717E497.791A3654@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:32:07 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. References: <000101be8833$93617560$c1c0fea9@y9g6r3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SCqR7.0.1o5.LK-5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Try it on an ORAC, pyramid, over loaded vacuum tubes or caduceus coils and see if they show any effects, They have an energy field that many peole say they can see. It is sure valuabe if you can see energy fields and maybe you can. I don't think that you should ignore it. atg0317 wrote: > I was coached some years ago by an individual that proclaimed to be able to > see the human aura. I had to that point considered it to be a gift rather > than something learned. I was told that anyone could learn, so I asked to be > taught. > > So I was, BUT!, I have since seriously doubted just what this skill really > is. My scientific side says its a parlor trick, an optical illusion, but I > now want to ask the great minds for input. > > The method taught me is to look directly at the object but shift the focus > to where you are looking at the outline of the object rather than directly > into the object. The best background is a White or Light background. This > was first shown to me by being instructed to hold ones hands out in front of > ones self and focus as stated above. You start to see a (mine was white at > first) fringe around the fingers. Then if you point the fingers together > about 1/2" apart you can see this white fringe start to grow and finally > connect between the fingers. > > I was so amazed I admit I fell hook line and sinker (maybe). I carried the > experiments farther to where I observed the phenomena while using a > bio-feedback monitor. The fringe color and extend varied in accordance with > the state of relaxation. Granted blood pressure could be the guy her in that > the eye pressure and focus could change as such. > > Anyway has anyone seem anything on this, fact or fiction. I would really > hate to discard the ability if its something real. > > Please no white coated respondents. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 18:49:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA28997; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:49:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:49:09 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-26-70.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.26.70] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:48:40 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3718e846.63144296@mail-hub> References: <8afa09e4.2449393e@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8afa09e4.2449393e@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA28977 Resent-Message-ID: <"l57vJ.0.-47.JY-5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:09:18 EDT, RoConroy@aol.com wrote: [snip] >responsibly. URL: >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/grnhs24.htm > I tried this URL with no luck. Compuserve says they can't find it. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 19:14:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05309; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:14:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:14:09 -0700 X-Sender: klicco@pop.ihug.co.nz Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:17:36 +1200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Paul Callender Subject: Magnetic Current, Antigrav and Overunity Resent-Message-ID: <"ckY843.0.oI1.mv-5t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi guys, I used to subscribe to this list a while ago but other things came up along with a lull in interest. Recently I was reading through some old web documents and came across a few things that tweaked my curiosity. I've always been interested in antigravity and overunity, and I would like some input on some of my ideas. I noticed the Mini-Romag generator on Mr. Naudin's site and read up on it, and in the process I found some interesting correlations with some other devices and phenomenon. While the generator looks amazingly similar to a normal generator, they mention a magnetic current which I have found mentioned by several other sources such as Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft (in SCIENCE, Vol 94, No. 2436), Warren York (Extraordinary Science Vol. 2, No. 1 1990, http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/phys/scalar1.html), I believe Peter Graneau has touched on it ("Longitudinal forces in Ampere's wire-arc experiment" in Physics letters [part A] May 8 1989 v 137 n 3 Page 87) and I believe the same thing is in effect or at least partially in Moray's and Tesla's work. The Mini-Romag is also very similar to Adam's generator, and he has claimed gravity effects when it runs resonantly. Looking at many of the overunity and antigrav devices it is possible that they were using magnetic current without knowing it. Hamel and Searl report interesting electrical effects with their devices. I can't help but think there is at least a secondary effect that is related to the claimed magnetic current. >From what I understand this magnetic current produces a cold light when running a lamp, with possible electrostatic effects and only powers resistive loads not inductive ones. According to the article by Warren York the E and B fields have flipped producing a longitudinal form of power. He even goes as far as identifying it as the Longitudinal Electricity of Tesla. Has anyone ever looked at this article? I've gone through it with a fine tooth comb and it seems to fall in sync with many of my ideas. My only query is the haggle over what exactly Tesla's longitudinal electricity was. Currently it seems the consensus is that the waves were scalar in nature, but I've been out of the loop for some time now. Has anyone seen this article from Extraordinary Science with the illustrations on building an RC (magnetic current) device? I live on the opposite side of the world so getting info is a small problem. Any kind souls with a scanner and a copy of this article? To cut a long story short I believe that if this magnetic current does exist it may be able to provide aether manipulation effects when run through coil configurations commonly used in AC circuits. Magnetism has a strong following in the overunity and antigravity areas. If magnetism is the primary effect in wires with the E and B fields swapped as claimed with magnetic current we may have a form of electricity that manipulates the aether very efficiently, which would also explain why overunity seems so illusive using AC electricity. Any comments greatly appreciated. Paul Callender From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 22:14:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22371; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:14:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:14:24 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: "Mark N. Iverson" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hi Dielectric constant materials Message-Id: <924326032.19076.863@excite.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:13:52 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"cZPIj3.0.NT5.mY16t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:14:05 -0700 From: "Mark N. Iverson" [Add to Address Book] Subject: Hi Dielectric constant materials To: tesla4@excite.com Dear Harvey: In a free-nrg-list article you wrote: > I have no idea about the practicallity of making a titanate concentrate, > but I did make combinations of strontium ferrite powder in a wax concentrate > that had the unusual quality of both being magnetic and a dielectric. I also > mixed this with cement and a special additive to produce a high dielectric > constant but the effect at higher frequencies might be counterproductive in > that the material appeared to conduct rather than acting as an insulator at > those conditions. Could you send your phone# to me by email? I'd like to talk to you in more detail about these materials and how you made them, and any other properties they have... Tested the dielectric constant of ferrite/cement mixture today at 32 with 10 cm^2 plate area @ 3.5 cm distance between plates, about 8 pf. Resistance measurement exceeds meter scale of 20 M Ohms. Whether this will become conductive at high frequency was totally speculative due to this effect being observed in the hi voltage and amperage of a tesla coil primary. In the early days of TC building I used a set of copper bars for the arc gap. Normally these bars can be placed on dry wood and separated a small distance and it will serve the purpose of creating an electrical arc between them :discharging the energy of the capacitor in a high frequency oscillation with the inductance of of the TC primary. Now one time I had used concrete blocks to place the copper bars on and instead of an arc occuring across the air gap it jumped straight into the block, which implies the concrete was more conductive than the air gap at those conditions. I have devised a test to see if such a conductive effect will occur on this sample:will report when made in the next few days. I do not think such a conductive effect will be noted in that the additive I used was to make the concrete more "glasslike". This sample I have tested was made about 4 years ago and doesnt seem to have crumbled much. Of course I can kick myself in the ass for not keeping notes; the ratio of wts. I used was scribbled on a shelf that no longer exists, but duplication of the material wouldnt be supposed to be that hard. The one thing I seem to remember is that after the pieces were cured they seemed to give a cyclic reading of resistance, this no longer seems to take place. I remember being very aggravated about this since it didnt make sense. The idea behind the creation of this material was a room temperature water crystal that might be imprinted with AC by special methods. Recall that a significant amount of H20 dielectric is absorbed into the medium during the curing process. If we compare the initial and final weights of the mixture before and after curing we find a portion of water actually goes into the finished product. In experiments to be conducted in the future it was hoped that a special curing could take place whereby the sample could be magnetized in cylindrical rotation over several hours during this curing process. The actual mmf input would not however be a high amperage dc pulse but a continuous ACmagnetic field in which a slip ratio between the rotation of the cylinder and the frequency of the AC mmf input can be continually maintained during the entire curing period. If this bizaarre magnetisation via AC input were even possible it should produce a multipoled roller in which the first modification is noted as a humble reminder of not thinking about a situation before attempting it at costly consequence. Of course the first consideration is that the slip ratio must be an even no! If it were odd the second inprint set will cancel the first! At 60 Hz and 10 multipoles imprint the slip ratio itself could be made additionally two ways: either by rotating the magnetized sample 10% faster than 3600 rpm, or 10% slower. Weighing the pros and cons of this conception the first seeming impossibility that is encountered is the problem of producing a mmf sufficiently high enough to magnetise in the first place! Ordinary ferrite magnets use a pulse on the field coils about 60 A! Surely it must be almoasty toasty to think such an AC mmf possible. The resonating coils would be huge in them standards. Secondly the finished roller probably at best could only contain 50% or perhaps only 33% of actual ferrite recieving an imprint. Those are only the first two cons. As for the pro's on the conception the slip ratio means that a complete set of 10 multipole imprints will be made every 1/6 of a second. Every 1/6 second the cylinder will be in the same position to recieve another identical imprint. This can occur flawlessly over the several hours of curing by the engineered use of appropriately geared down synchoniously phased AC motors to rotate the magnetized cylinder exactly in concert with the input frequency established in a slip ratio configuration. What this means is that if the process were feasible I could have a factory producing these rollers 24 hours a day; any drop in mains frequency would compensated by the syncronious motor turning the sample to be magnetised. So if a 60 hz roller was to be made; and the power mains dropped to 59.7 or even 59 it should not matter; the same resultant manufactured cylinder would be identical. Additionally the excessive amount of mmf concieved to be necessary to magnetise might not be needed in light of the fact that during every multipole imprint made the properties of the material are becomeing more cystalline during the time of curing. Undoubtably the chemistry of this curing will be affected by these conditions. Every pole will be imprinted in a sort of identical stacking formation whereby instead of one powerful magnetising pulse a repeated weaker hammering is made to the tune of hundreds of thousands of times in identical spatial configuration during the several hours of curing. In as much as the dielectric properties are continually changing during this slow "wagon wheel" process it affords itself as a very possible AC imprint process. The samples of wax concentrates I made in the past are not readily testable at this point, and havent yet been tested for the dielectric constant. This involves some work of separating the concentrate from wax mixture for testing. These materials may hold a viable potential for emerging on the high K market:a new product for tesla coilers? I tried making an inprint with this material with no success. This attempt was rather primitive and consisted of allowing ferrite molten wax to cool into a solid in a high freq. magnetic field. No differences in material properties were noted afterwards. Harvey D. Norris 1396 Russell Dr Streetsboro, Ohio 44241 Phone 330-626-4600 working hours or Business after hours 330-626-5020 no answer past 2 AM (unless sincerly intoxicated) . _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 16 23:53:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA06407; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:53:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:53:25 -0700 Message-ID: <37182FBE.DCD0BA0B@ghiocel.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:52:46 -0700 From: Dan Ghiocel Organization: Scott Electronic Services LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. References: <000101be8833$93617560$c1c0fea9@y9g6r3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wRblX.0.0a1.b_26t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Since you mention, A lot of these visions seem to have to do with the focus of the eyes. I think it has to do with the frequency and the modulation of the eye vision, both at the eye and the brain processing level. I found out that even looking at an nonuniform surface, like a wall, in some conditions, the eyes can form unusually clear images. I did not have a chance to analyze and I was not been able to duplicate them in a controlled environment; all I can say right now is that I was surprised by the presence of these phenomena. Dan G. atg0317 wrote: > > I was coached some years ago by an individual that proclaimed to be able to > see the human aura. I had to that point considered it to be a gift rather > than something learned. I was told that anyone could learn, so I asked to be > taught. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 00:43:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA12942; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:42:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:42:48 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990417074945.01687224@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 03:49:45 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. Resent-Message-ID: <"6koEO1.0.7A3.uj36t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 01:03 PM 4/16/99 -0500, you wrote: >I was coached some years ago by an individual that proclaimed to be able to >see the human aura. I had to that point considered it to be a gift rather >than something learned. I was told that anyone could learn, so I asked to be >taught. > >So I was, BUT!, I have since seriously doubted just what this skill really >is. My scientific side says its a parlor trick, an optical illusion, but I >now want to ask the great minds for input. What are you trying to be a wise guy or something? Great minds? Where? >The method taught me is to look directly at the object but shift the focus >to where you are looking at the outline of the object rather than directly >into the object. The best background is a White or Light background. This >was first shown to me by being instructed to hold ones hands out in front of >ones self and focus as stated above. You start to see a (mine was white at >first) fringe around the fingers. Then if you point the fingers together >about 1/2" apart you can see this white fringe start to grow and finally >connect between the fingers. The monitor screen with the Eudora window maximized seems to make a good background for observing what appears to me as a translucent (energy?) layer. Very interesting phenomenon. Heated layer of air exhibiting change of density/light refraction index? Life force energy? Infrared? Kirlian type pattern? Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 01:52:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA21675; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:51:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:51:58 -0700 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: For King and Country.. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:51:53 GMT Message-ID: <371849fa.11763064@smtp.zipworld.com.au> References: <199904151840.NAA03819@mw3.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <199904151840.NAA03819@mw3.texas.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA21652 Resent-Message-ID: <"suzeW2.0.WI5.jk46t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:38:26 -0500, "Joe Portman" wrote: >Here's another of mine; "A man can learn a lot stumbling around in the >dark" Man who stumble around in dark had best wear armour plating on shins. >> > saying that I made up years ago, that helps us overcome fear of a >> project: >> > "Complexity is nothing but multiplied simplicity." One day, long ago, a >> man >> > walked up to a spot on the ground and laid a single brick.........the >> first >> > brick making up the Empire State Building. Another viewpoint is ... complexification follows on from inadequate understanding. There are two types of complexity. These are intrinsic complexity and perceived complexity. Perceived complexity usually results from lack of understanding of the system being examined. Once the understanding is there, the perceived complexity largely vanishes and the intrinsic complexity is much easier to deal with. My five cents worth, anyway ... can't have two cents worth in the land of Aus any more as, thanks to inflation, we no longer have one and two cent pieces . Cheers all, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 02:08:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA03945; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:06:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:06:32 -0700 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:06:27 GMT Message-ID: <37194e76.12910464@smtp.zipworld.com.au> References: <8afa09e4.2449393e@aol.com> <3718e846.63144296@mail-hub> In-Reply-To: <3718e846.63144296@mail-hub> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA03818 Resent-Message-ID: <"nGQ9h2.0.Mz.Ny46t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:48:40 GMT, rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) wrote: >On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:09:18 EDT, RoConroy@aol.com wrote: >[snip] >>responsibly. URL: >>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/grnhs24.htm >I tried this URL with no luck. Compuserve says they can't find it. Likewise. Compuserve also seems to disclaim all knowledge of a user "robert_conroy". Cheers, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 02:55:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA17947; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:55:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:55:25 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. Message-Id: <924342893.7402.7@excite.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:54:53 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.55 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"wTFSj2.0.GO4.Dg56t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:52:46 -0700, Dan Ghiocel wrote: > Since you mention, > A lot of these visions seem to have to do with the focus of the eyes. > I think it has to do with the frequency and the modulation of the eye > vision, > both at the eye and the brain processing level. > I found out that even looking at an nonuniform surface, like a wall, > in some conditions, the eyes can form unusually clear images. > I did not have a chance to analyze and I was not been able to duplicate > them in a controlled environment; all I can say right now is that > I was surprised by the presence of these phenomena. > Dan G. > >the use of the word "vision " is oftentimes relegated to inferior connotations. For example how many people have asked you how many visions have you had in this lifetime? the first reflex answer is none or one, and then when you start thinking about it you realize they are many more than first imagined. When I thought about this I remembered the first vision: a one of sri ramakrishna were he was pretending to be a farmer. It was in black and white and the white was obscurred by the crunching black. In my youth I was harassed by the opposites:the white would appear very large and roundlike and attempt to engulf the black sticks in a sort of game; as this went on the different opposites seemed to make something indefinably different in their interaction. Each one expanded the other, but it always appeared that one was shinking very small compared to one expanding very large. In a sort of daydreaming I glimpsed the farmer and thought what the heck is this? Of course I went to look in his eyes. And when I got there everything went whoosh. I felt exactly like I was goingthrough a complete travel of much time and space, and literal stars, points of light were flying by at an incredible speed In that point of time I understood that I thought it was the old man and i dont have to lie about that because i got what i came for So then again a couple of yearslater I had a simple black and white picture appear to be corraborated to a Muktananda namesake Something about my early life had to be extinguished concerning these connections. At this time I was particularly fascinated by the Tibetan things and of course the 14th Dalai lama. I had once read something about the Mustang history purely by accident and it intrigued me. That is the mysterious thing about a library: you will read it once and when you remember being there you automatically assume that you can simply go back and find it again. But this doesnt always happen. Those visions happened to me when I was 16 and 17 and attempting to be mystically inclined. Now I have wised up. ha ha ha. Circa early 70's Laughter is good for the soul. About 1992 I had another bizaar vision which again started after looking into an eye.I dont want to say whose eyes those bees have. But a certain character who had played in Clint Eastwood movies(I said this was bizaar)was standing at a chalkboard and drawing physics equations and explaining while waving his hands. I always wondered who this was until one time I saw the judge on Hang them High? and immediately recognized him as the person in this vision. In fact he was in many Eastwood films. Now I am 43 and luckily havent had any more visions. But count them as a real phenomenon in a lifetime. and when i further remembered when i was 5 or so i heard voices that made me look around. I am sure that each one of us has had a vision; and that if we dont remember it is because of that very fact. HDN . _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 04:34:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA02764; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 04:33:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 04:33:18 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990417113952.0168d778@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:39:52 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win Resent-Message-ID: <"LM3Dj1.0.5h.-576t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 09:06 AM 4/17/99 GMT, you wrote: >On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:48:40 GMT, rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van >Spaandonk) wrote: > >>On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:09:18 EDT, RoConroy@aol.com wrote: >>[snip] >>>responsibly. URL: >>>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/grnhs24.htm > >>I tried this URL with no luck. Compuserve says they can't find it. > >Likewise. Compuserve also seems to disclaim all knowledge of a >user "robert_conroy". Oh my God. Does this mean that I am the victim of CIA type 'Black Project' machinations? Bummer, I wanted to compare dome design features. Concrete shell and lexan windows/skylights are complete. We are almost done with the 2x8 framing bevels. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 06:15:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA18602; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:15:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:15:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199904171315.IAA07186@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: For King and Country.. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:12:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CGb9a3.0.YY4.Xb86t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Alan, I enjoyed your comments....good thoughts. Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: Alan Schneider > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: For King and Country.. > Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 3:51 AM > > On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:38:26 -0500, "Joe Portman" wrote: > > >Here's another of mine; "A man can learn a lot stumbling around in the > >dark" > > Man who stumble around in dark had best wear armour plating on > shins. > > Another viewpoint is ... complexification follows on from > inadequate understanding. > There are two types of complexity. These are intrinsic complexity and > perceived complexity. > Perceived complexity usually results from lack of understanding of > the system being examined. Once the understanding is there, the > perceived complexity largely vanishes and the intrinsic complexity > is much easier to deal with. > > My five cents worth, anyway ... can't have two cents worth in > the land of Aus any more as, thanks to inflation, we no longer have > one and two cent pieces . > > Cheers all, > Alan > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 06:17:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA19325; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:17:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199904171317.IAA07255@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:14:52 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EZC6z.0.sj4.Jd86t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Even a mosquito has a great mind. Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. > Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 2:49 AM > > At 01:03 PM 4/16/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I was coached some years ago by an individual that proclaimed to be able to > >see the human aura. I had to that point considered it to be a gift rather > >than something learned. I was told that anyone could learn, so I asked to be > >taught. > > > > What are you trying to be a wise guy or something? Great minds? Where? > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 06:23:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22215; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:23:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:23:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199904171323.IAA08386@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: , "Mark N. Iverson" Cc: Subject: Re: Hi Dielectric constant materials Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:21:02 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lg-9f.0.yQ5.5j86t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Harvey, Mark, Pure fired ceramic is conductive when exposed to negative radio freq, blocked, 5000VDC or more. This is widely used in radio frequency sputtering, a method of coating dissimilar materials. It gives a bond strength greater than plain vapor deposition. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Harvey Norris > To: Mark N. Iverson > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Hi Dielectric constant materials > Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 12:13 AM > > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:14:05 -0700 From: "Mark N. Iverson" > [Add to Address Book] Subject: Hi Dielectric constant > materials To: tesla4@excite.com > > > Dear Harvey: > > In a free-nrg-list article you wrote: > > > I have no idea about the practicallity of making a titanate > concentrate, > > but I did make combinations of strontium ferrite powder in a wax > concentrate > > that had the unusual quality of both being magnetic and a dielectric. I > also > > mixed this with cement and a special additive to produce a high > dielectric > > constant but the effect at higher frequencies might be counterproductive > in > > that the material appeared to conduct rather than acting as an insulator > at > > those conditions. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 06:29:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24476; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:29:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:29:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199904171329.IAA08661@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:26:57 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Hqs5R1.0.L-5.eo86t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Do like Einstein, when in Germany........Create your own world ....even if mental .....and forget the rest. Of course, try to protect it. Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: bob macelvain > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win > Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 6:39 PM > > ... > ... dennis ... > ... > ... i empathize with your view(s) ... > ... > ... why should i feel so paranoid just because everybody (mostly the government) is out to get me? > ... > ... america has been in a planned "dumb-down" mode ever since the battle of waterloo ... > ... > ... don't fight it! ... > ... > ... as dr. strangelove so succinctly stated, "stop worrying and learn to love the bomb" ... > ... > ... don't expect any support from your 'dumbed-down' neighbors and so-called, 'friends' ... > ... > ... you're rocking the boat ... downright dangerous! ... in this present-day 'ant-hill' society, you are little more than "dog meat" ... > ... > ... learn from history ... > ... > ... don't get mad, get even ... > ... > ... actually prevail ... > ... > ... you can do it! ... > ... > ... all you have to do is think .... > ... > ... bob ... > ... > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com > Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 07:12:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA31376; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:12:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:12:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199904171412.QAA28405@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:12:05 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cbT_T3.0.9g7.0R96t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Even a mosquito has a great mind. > Joe Portman > =========== > > > Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. > > Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 2:49 AM > > > > At 01:03 PM 4/16/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >I was coached some years ago by an individual that proclaimed to be able > to > > >see the human aura. I had to that point considered it to be a gift > rather > > >than something learned. I was told that anyone could learn, so I asked > to be > > >taught. > > > > > > > What are you trying to be a wise guy or something? Great minds? Where? Well here a subject I do know a little off... I do have read some books about human "energy fields" or aura's and I do believe one can learn to see these... Basicly there are three directions to improve ones perception... 1) Get rid of psycho-lugages... In Freud terms the traumatical experiences, which influences behaviour... A good example is people who got a litle paranoid in their early days, cause Daddy did not allow them to smoke, have a big chance to like X-files and Area 51 conspiracy stuff when they grow up... Realizing this connection will chance ones perception... 2) Fysical excersises... To see aura's, a person need to be in fysical good condition... To see, we use our eyes, and to focus at the right spot you really need to take control over your eyes muscles... Normally people focus on objects, and aura's are at a different spot, around an object... Also mental tension gets in your muscles and stretching relaxes... 3) Watch your dieet... Drinking lot's of cola, eating kilos of cheese, smoking, etc is ofcourse not so good for functioning well... (Re)learn to eat what your body (and mind) needs... In Holland we have a saying: you are what you eat.... Well so far my stuiver (that's how our five cents are called)... Regards, Aris... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 07:27:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA02162; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:27:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:27:21 -0700 Message-ID: <001201be88de$7661f100$1588fea9@y9g6r3> From: "atg0317" To: Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:26:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"fXkv9.0.hX.8f96t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: Dennis C. Lee To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win >At 09:06 AM 4/17/99 GMT, you wrote: >>On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:48:40 GMT, rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van >>Spaandonk) wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:09:18 EDT, RoConroy@aol.com wrote: >>>[snip] >>>>responsibly. URL: >>>>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/grnhs24.htm >> >>>I tried this URL with no luck. Compuserve says they can't find it. >> >>Likewise. Compuserve also seems to disclaim all knowledge of a >>user "robert_conroy". > > >Oh my God. Does this mean that I am the victim of CIA type 'Black Project' >machinations? Bummer, I wanted to compare dome design features. Concrete >shell and lexan windows/skylights are complete. We are almost done with the >2x8 framing bevels. > > >Dennis > > Dennis! You walk on water or so you think. It is common knowledge that a very large industry exists monitoring the Internet, as in phone system monitoring certain keys are used to cause alert status and either record or direct the data to live monitors. In fact Microsoft pays heavily for this information, it help them 'BETTER' their products. International calls (wonder about every call) will set off all kinds of bells and whistles when the right words are found in the content. Start send encoded messages over the Inet to a foreign country on a regular basis and see what happens. None of this is a *JOKE*, if you play with fire long enough you are going to get burned, and I'm sure that this list is by now popping up quite often just as a result of keys over the pas few days. Ron... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 07:41:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05560; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:41:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:41:24 -0700 Message-ID: <002f01be88e0$6db3bbe0$1588fea9@y9g6r3> From: "atg0317" To: Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:41:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"uA812.0.iM1.Js96t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com From: John Berry To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. >Try it on an ORAC, pyramid, over loaded vacuum tubes or caduceus coils and see >if they show any effects, They have an energy field that many peole say they can >see. >It is sure valuabe if you can see energy fields and maybe you can. >I don't think that you should ignore it. > This was one of the first things I tried, what is the saying, 'No Cigar'. Have tried other things like TV flybacks etc., again no, can't do. Yet very easy with organic substances, wood, paper, plastic and so on. In fact after I brought this up I got back into it and in explaining it now have determined that metals do not display. Well the feed back as usual has been mixed enough that I think I can now decide without additional discourse. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 09:36:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA05108; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:34:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:34:56 -0700 From: RoConroy@aol.com Message-ID: <3aab8337.244a11fc@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:34:04 EDT Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: RoConroy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"DaX443.0.jF1.mWB6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/17/99 6:35:27 AM Central Daylight Time, atech@ix.netcom.com writes: << Oh my God. Does this mean that I am the victim of CIA type 'Black Project' machinations? Bummer, I wanted to compare dome design features. Concrete shell and lexan windows/skylights are complete. We are almost done with the 2x8 framing bevels. >> I tried my own Compuserve link and it was unavailable. Since the animated gif and the fabrication plans are still available directly from aol, I think the CIA is not doing its job real well. Hopefully Compuserve's server problems have simply shut down my WEB site. The aol companion site URL: http://hometown.aol.com/dometruss From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 12:27:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02462; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:26:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:26:15 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990417193305.01636c54@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:33:05 -0400 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: For King and Country.. Resent-Message-ID: <"veM622.0.Ec.N1E6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 08:12 AM 4/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Alan, > I enjoyed your comments....good thoughts. >Joe Portman >=========== >> On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:38:26 -0500, "Joe Portman" wrote: >> >Here's another of mine; "A man can learn a lot stumbling around in the >> >dark" >> >> Man who stumble around in dark had best wear armour plating on >> shins. I thought it sounded kind of scary too. Threw me off, I thought I heard that duh before but maybe not. Then I realized, Portman, oh haha. Whatever. Obviously learning while stumbling implies negative results are possible in such uncoordinated circumstances but for some reason I felt that more ominous undertones of meaning were present in the way it was delivered, I guess. So, I didn't get a chance to say that a sort of understanding that I'm 'under the wing' so to speak, of a certain most honored professor. I guess most honored professor responsibilities include being fast enough to grab student by arm and pulling back before anything really stupid results. Although, I'd like to think that I would have researched enough to know to be cautious of processes that may cause bubbles to form in glass let's say. (I'd like the IGV planet thumbtack concept reviewed again also). A new material may not be researched enough to have such data in the reference shelves. A good most honored professor would seem to have a 'thought frame rate' that would appear sort of slow (I think he just gets to check more of one's 'squares' this way to an unbelievable extent) and relaxed to the point where, that perhaps after the first electrode disappeared, a close inspection and reflection of the situation would certainly result. I fully sympathize that in the enthusiasm and excitement when experiencing profound levels of discovery, one might very well wait for more electrodes to be shipped, and then proceed to quickly 'pop' them in, one by one, in rapid succession. We should all wish the good professor proper health and wellbeing as his longevity is directly proportional to a hopefully worthy student's level of understanding, which accordingly reduces the possibility of difficulty in much later times. Of course, a worthy student will be thoughtfull of coherent interconnected knowledge and respect all who care enough to synergistically build each other's levels in the interest of the greater good. But a most honored professor is on a level of his own and one can only wonder how might it be possible to live up to and rightfully continue such accomplishment. I've been fortunate enough to see what a wellspent, five million dollar education looks like; brand new state of the art knowledge as far as the eye can see. There hasn't even been enough time to get the textbooks updated with even a small percentage of this information. A certain most honored professor will listen a bit to one's understanding receital of this brand new subject and might say something like, not so new, 'analogous row below'. Realization of implications sets in bringing one to the only place left, weeping with (in? of?) wonder and amazement. You take a week or two to recover then you make another phonecall and shoot the breeze with him some more. Oh if only certain wheels of production could roll before a certain wedding day. I bought about half his books so far. I most highly recommend paying the good professor the $5,000.00 to $6,000.00 dollars it costs to purchase the volume set. Read the whole thing through. I don't know why, but you will then have more 'squares' to work with I believe. >> Another viewpoint is ... complexification follows on from >> inadequate understanding. >> There are two types of complexity. These are intrinsic complexity and >> perceived complexity. >> Perceived complexity usually results from lack of understanding of >> the system being examined. Once the understanding is there, the >> perceived complexity largely vanishes and the intrinsic complexity >> is much easier to deal with. Yes, I think these thoughts would help things flow more smoothly if used in practice. Can I quote, and credit you authorship in my email signiture when I fix up the file soon, Alan? Regards; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 14:00:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24783; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:59:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:59:59 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990417210651.016ddb1c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:06:51 -0400 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: List of CF control parameters Resent-Message-ID: <"RR_J-2.0.336.EPF6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >So why not let Scott bung his apparatus at Case and see what happens? I hope this is a typo. If I have to deal with such an issue, all technical participation and help will be immediately withdrawn; without exception. This issue has no place in any project. Most Seriously; Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 14:59:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23227; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:57:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:57:16 -0700 From: RBCorn2@aol.com Message-ID: <1f394438.244a5d84@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:56:20 EDT Subject: NE567 Tone decoder To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: RBCorn2@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"VCLX81.0.mg5.yEG6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Anyone try this chip for decoding a set frequency to TTL output? The data sheets are more forgiving than the component..... Trying to decode 1K and 10K for specific parameters...PIA interupt Any suggestions will be rewarded in kind.... Rob C. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 15:50:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07915; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:49:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:49:23 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-26-70.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.26.70] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hi Dielectric constant materials Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:49:02 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <37190fb5.138786570@mail-hub> References: <199904171323.IAA08386@mw2.texas.net> In-Reply-To: <199904171323.IAA08386@mw2.texas.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA07734 Resent-Message-ID: <"BWu-q.0.ax1.p_G6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:21:02 -0500, Joe Portman wrote: >Harvey, Mark, > Pure fired ceramic is conductive when exposed to negative radio freq, >blocked, 5000VDC or more. This is widely used in radio frequency >sputtering, a method of coating dissimilar materials. It gives a bond >strength greater than plain vapor deposition. >Joe Portman [snip] What is a "negative radio freq" ? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 17:17:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04154; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:16:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:16:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199904180016.TAA16919@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Hi Dielectric constant materials Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:14:32 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tYZH4.0.l01.nHI6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Block 1 side, leaving a negative pulse. Connect this to the ceramic to be sputtered. I used to work with this years ago. You might try a search for better data. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Robin van Spaandonk > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Hi Dielectric constant materials > Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 5:49 PM > > On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:21:02 -0500, Joe Portman wrote: > > >Harvey, Mark, > > Pure fired ceramic is conductive when exposed to negative radio freq, > >blocked, 5000VDC or more. This is widely used in radio frequency > >sputtering, a method of coating dissimilar materials. It gives a bond > >strength greater than plain vapor deposition. > >Joe Portman > [snip] > What is a "negative radio freq" ? > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 17:33:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16626; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:33:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:33:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199904180033.TAA28862@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: For King and Country.. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:31:07 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PwNFa.0.h34.KXI6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sorry, boys, I'm no professor. When I speak it is strictly the voice of experience from a graduate of the school of hard knocks. I know what empiricism is, but have seldom used it. Instead of starting at the bottom, I go up in a plane, find what I think is a good starting point, bail out with no chute, figure out how to land safely, then float down in a wave of applause from my peers. Like the man says, the brain is like a Swiss army knife, built to do anything.....hmmmm....but you must trust it, in spite of criticism by your peers. Joe Portman ========= ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: Recipient list suppressed > Subject: Re: For King and Country.. > Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 2:33 PM > > At 08:12 AM 4/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Alan, > > I enjoyed your comments....good thoughts. > >Joe Portman > >=========== > > >> On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:38:26 -0500, "Joe Portman" wrote: > >> >Here's another of mine; "A man can learn a lot stumbling around in the > >> >dark" > >> > >> Man who stumble around in dark had best wear armour plating on > >> shins. > > I thought it sounded kind of scary too. Threw me off, I thought I heard that > duh before but maybe not. Then I realized, Portman, oh haha. Whatever. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 20:03:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24665; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:03:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:03:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990417225504.00b32800@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:55:04 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Observations of Anomalous Transparency (from VortC) In-Reply-To: <199904172131.SM00200@[206.127.240.158]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"DLGcM1.0.H16.kjK6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 03:13 PM 04/17/99 -1000, Rick wrote: > >By the way, I checked several general physics texts and tried searching the >web last night, and came up with *nothing* on the subject of opacity vs. >transparency at the atomic level, and found the words in connection with >refraction and reflection in inherently or obviously transparent materials >being discussed. Anybody have any suggestions? > >From the Encyclopedia Britannica: "industrial glass Optical properties Transparency, opacity, and colour Because electrons in glass molecules are confined to particular energy levels, they cannot absorb and reemit photons (the basic units of light energy) by skipping from one energy band to another and back again. As a consequence, light energy travels through glass instead of being absorbed and reflected, so that glass is transparent. Furthermore, the molecular units in glass are so small in comparison to light waves of ordinary wavelengths that their absorption effect is negligible. Radiation of some wavelengths, however, can cause glass molecules to vibrate, making the glass opaque to those wavelengths. For instance, most oxide glasses are good absorbers of, and are therefore opaque to, ultraviolet radiation of wavelengths smaller than 350 nanometres, or 3,500 angstroms. These glasses can be made more transparent to ultraviolet radiation by increasing the silica content. At the same time, silicate glasses absorb wavelengths greater than 4 micrometres, making them virtually opaque to infrared radiation. Heavy-metal fluoride glasses, on the other hand, transmit wavelengths up to about 7 micrometres, while some chalcogenide glasses transmit as far as 18 micrometres--properties that make them transparent into the middle infrared region. Glass to which certain metallic oxides have been added will absorb wavelengths corresponding to certain colours and let others pass, thus appearing tinted to the eye. For instance, cobalt gives an intense blue tint to glass, chromium generally gives green, and manganese imparts purple." Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 21:55:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15652; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:54:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:54:42 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01be8957$88f3ed40$451a0fcb@default> From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" To: , Subject: Re: NE567 Tone decoder Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:24:21 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"A8zwN2.0.Tq3.HMM6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: RBCorn2@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, 18 April 1999 07:27 Local Subject: NE567 Tone decoder >Anyone try this chip for decoding a set frequency to TTL output? >The data sheets are more forgiving than the component..... >Trying to decode 1K and 10K for specific parameters...PIA interupt >Any suggestions will be rewarded in kind.... >Rob C. My dealings with the '567 have been, Er.. Umm .. not that pleasant ! It (the '567) appears to be extremely critical of input level variations - what are you using as the Frequency source ? - can you clamp or otherwise limit the level ? Is there another way (in your specific application) to keep the levels constant ?. O.k Rob, Mull those over and see what options you can come up with that will fit the specifics of your task. In short I wish you well, and let me know what you end up doing, this may save a few more grey hairs later on on other projects Regards, Glenville. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 17 22:14:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21919; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:13:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:13:34 -0700 Message-ID: <371A79E0.62B8@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:33:36 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Update me References: <924311103.16134.617@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Kst8k.0.JM5.-dM6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Harvey Norris wrote: > > Hmm, lets see maybe you havent seen this, it usually gets some > danders up because of the faster than light .......... > Big Snip > > PS To give an idea of comparison a tesla 1/4 wave resonator > would have to be about 1500 ft to resonate at 166,000 hz., yet these > coils have about 47,500 ft and still ring at their natural resonant > frequency due to the high internal capacitance of the 20,000 > adjacent winds of 23 gauge wire. HDN > Have you ever contemplated, or experimented with the idea of increasing the internal capacitance, and the distributed potential of your binary resonant inductors, in a manner similar to that proposed by Tesla in his patent, "Coil for Electromagnets". It seems to me, that such a configuration would produce the same required inductance, but markedly increase the stored energy level at resonance (as an "electrostatic" oscillator), while virtually eliminating inductive reactance. Is that right? While it's tempting to simply "lump" the capacitance of Tesla's coil in a conventional manner, I suspect this is not really correct, or how such an inductor functions in practice. Also, I think you mentioned previously, the use of a rotary spark gap with your Binary Resonant System. Have you ever contemplated or experimented with the use of a perpendicular magnetic field to extinguish the spark gap more rapidly? Or is that a dopey idea? SR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 03:35:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA13262; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:35:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:35:22 -0700 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: For King and Country.. Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:35:16 GMT Message-ID: <3719b522.1986716@smtp.zipworld.com.au> References: <1.5.4.32.19990417193305.01636c54@popd.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990417193305.01636c54@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA13245 Resent-Message-ID: <"R_Lpj3.0.7F3.gLR6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:33:05 -0400, "Dennis C. Lee" wrote: >Yes, I think these thoughts would help things flow more smoothly if used in >practice. Can I quote, and credit you authorship in my email signiture when >I fix up the file soon, Alan? Be my guest, Dennis. No attribution is necessary though. Cheers, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 04:33:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA20712; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 04:33:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 04:33:35 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: RBCorn2@aol.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: NE567 Tone decoder Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:10:30 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <1f394438.244a5d84@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1f394438.244a5d84@aol.com> Lines: 20 Resent-Message-ID: <"QFOwz2.0.T35.FCS6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Anyone try this chip for decoding a set frequency to TTL output? The NE567 is sensitive to level changes on its input. A common way to deal with this is back-to-back diodes to clip the input to a standard level. However this can also create harmonics that the 567 may lock on to. A better way is a simple AGC. On the output side the 567 can 'chatter' or 'bounce'. You didn't say what your application was, there may be better ways of doing what you want to day. Such as 4046 Phase Locked Loop, or some of Linear Technolgies percision Tone Decoders. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 05:00:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA24194; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 05:00:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 05:00:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199904181159.NAA14100@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:38:17 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f8WDU3.0.xv5.2bS6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >The method taught me is to look directly at the object but shift the focus > >to where you are looking at the outline of the object rather than directly > >into the object. The best background is a White or Light background. I think an eye works like an auto-focus camera... The technique described up here is similar like turning to manual focus and focus at a point you normally not focus on... Get the picture?? Aris... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 07:03:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05013; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:03:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:03:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:03:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <199904181159.NAA14100@poindexter.wirehub.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lwlCq2.0.EE1.nOU6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Aris wrote: > > >The method taught me is to look directly at the object but shift the > focus > > >to where you are looking at the outline of the object rather than > directly > > >into the object. The best background is a White or Light background. > > I think an eye works like an auto-focus camera... The technique described > up here is similar like turning to manual focus and focus at a point you > normally not focus on... Get the picture?? > > Aris... > I responded directly to the original posting, but I thought I'd make a note here. What is actually happening is that the image gets "burned into" the retina of the eye for a short period of time. The retina desensitizes to brighter light sources. If you then shift your gaze or focus a bit, you will have the desensitized area on the retina overlapping the actual object with a negative of the image. You can try this with a set of colored cards on a white background, or even on a computer screen: Take a red, blue and green card and look at them for a minute or so, keeping your eyes on one spot as much as possible. Then remove the cards. You will see three areas against the white background in the complementary colors of the cards - yellow, cyan and magenta. These will eventually fade as the eyes rebalance to the new image you are looking at. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 07:24:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09612; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:23:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:23:54 -0700 Message-ID: <000601be89a7$27bb90a0$05e4fea9@y9g6r3> From: "atg0317" To: Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:24:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"4jqo63.0.5M2.whU6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com From: Zack Widup To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 9:06 AM Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. >On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Aris wrote: > >> > >The method taught me is to look directly at the object but shift the >> focus >> > >to where you are looking at the outline of the object rather than >> directly >> > >into the object. The best background is a White or Light background. >> >> I think an eye works like an auto-focus camera... The technique described >> up here is similar like turning to manual focus and focus at a point you >> normally not focus on... Get the picture?? >> >> Aris... >> > >I responded directly to the original posting, but I thought I'd make a >note here. > >What is actually happening is that the image gets "burned into" the >retina of the eye for a short period of time. The retina desensitizes to >brighter light sources. If you then shift your gaze or focus a bit, you >will have the desensitized area on the retina overlapping the actual >object with a negative of the image. > >You can try this with a set of colored cards on a white background, or >even on a computer screen: Take a red, blue and green card and look at >them for a minute or so, keeping your eyes on one spot as much as >possible. Then remove the cards. You will see three areas against the >white background in the complementary colors of the cards - yellow, cyan >and magenta. These will eventually fade as the eyes rebalance to the new >image you are looking at. > >Zack > What Zack says was tested and found to be almost totally correct. The colored square test was tried and confirmed, although once started back on the subject, further testing was conducted and it was determined that 'organic' substances when viewed do in fact produce the effect described, yet metals, (i.e., copper, steel) when viewed do not. This leaves a question that may need expansion on maybe the reflective qualities of metal tend to reduce or eliminate the effect or in some way reduce it to a point in which the eye recovers more quickly. To test this further I'm trying to come up with some good light colored reflective surfaces and *SEE* :-) the result. I received a number of private communications from the other side. Strange but the response is more in favor of the aura concept than the scientific approach. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 12:17:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11662; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:16:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:16:14 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:14:53 EDT Subject: Re: Lorentz force To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"vbsaC.0.4s2.zzY6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/14/99 9:05:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << About a week ago Bob Gray posted a message (Weber Electrodynamics) about the Lorentz force and that some researchers found that a iron crosspiece experienced a force opposite from a (copper) crosspiece when current was sent through it by connection to 2 conductive rails. The 2 rails were connected to a high current electrical supply. I tried this today, and could get neither to roll (The classic theory says the crosspiece will experience force to roll to increase the area enclosed by the circuit formed by the 2 rails, the crosspiece, and the power supply.) I used a No. 10 AWG copper crosspiece, and it would lightly weld itself to the 2 copper rails. The iron crosspiece about the same diameter would arc at one or both the connections. Both crosspieces seemed to experience a "sticking" force to the rails when pushed along (crosspiece attracted to the rails). Has anyone tried any similar experiments? Is pure DC required, say from a storage battery, or a capacitor discharge (rail gun) type circuit? I used a simple supply with a 60Hz transformer, FWCT rectifier, and filter capacitor. The output is about 2 volts under load at a current somewhat greater than 100 Amps. -Dave >> I missed the original post which raised this issue, but happen to have instrumentation so that I can check this easily at low current levels if I can find a copper rod to use. In the meantime, I would think any dc current should work. What wouldn't be reliable is an ac circuit or an undamped capacitor discharge. And on the subject of the capacitor discharge, my experience has been, on switching, that what works best is manually switching a crude air gap. Obviously it has limitations for repetitive switching. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 12:45:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18371; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:44:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:44:22 -0700 Message-ID: <371A36A9.AA257E19@erie.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:46:49 -0400 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Beaty CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------031CD7B9F6F7F8D8A453B79D" Resent-Message-ID: <"0HTpM2.0.xU4.LOZ6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --------------031CD7B9F6F7F8D8A453B79D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Beaty wrote: > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, free_energy@onelist.com, > FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY > > Norm: > > I see that someone has started another FE discussion group, > FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com. Is that yours? Yes it is. It is a slow moving list. I encourage you, and anyone who would like, to join it. > I'm sure that there are > plenty of people who have stories to tell. One in particular, who had 1/2 million dollars "Invested" with Newman. > > > There are many honest FE investigators who search for private funding in > order to continue their research. As long as success is elusive, > investors are going to put up money with no results to show for it. But > there are also a few "snake" types of people who see nothing wrong with > masquerading as legitimate maverick scientists in order to make money. How > to tell the difference? I think its quite hard, because the dishonest > people often have been lying for so long that they eventually believe > their own lies, and aren't quite lying anymore. Bill, I share your disdain for the ubiquity of mendacity. It has always frustrated me when people tell lies, be it from a subconscious or a fully conscious force. In the case of Mr. Newman, I find the cult nature of the whole thing, and the long on-going list of people badly hurt, to make the stakes much higher than just one person lying. I consider him a well polished, methodical predator, rather than just a simple liar. The size of Mr. Newman's ego (World's Greatest Scientist), along with his claims of direct revelations from GOD, make him closer to a schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur. This coupled with his "communication" with UFO's, judging people by the shape of their eyebrows, etc., etc., would usually just be considered raving lunatics...........until they gather a band of disciples. Can you say "Jim Jones", or "David Koresh" ? > And an angry investor > might be the victim of a scam, or might just be pissed off about the > inventor's lack of success. As long as secrecy is the order of the day, > it will be impossible to tell who is who. > > Without secrecy, the task would be much easier. Follow the money. I am in the process of doing just that. > Is it > being used for research, or is it ending up as an enormous personal > salary? Test the devices. Does the inventor claim success, but always > have excuses for why the device cannot be tested? Not only can the unit not be tested, but there are no kinds of information forthcoming from Mr. Newman, as to what the test procedures entail, nor is there any information as to who verified the test results. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Regards, Norm Biss Erie, Pa. 4-18-99 normpems@erie.net --------------031CD7B9F6F7F8D8A453B79D Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

William Beaty wrote:

To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, free_energy@onelist.com,
        FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY

Norm:

I see that someone has started another FE discussion group,
FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com.   Is that yours?

Yes it is.  It is a slow moving list.  I encourage you, and anyone who would like, to
join it.
I'm sure that there are
plenty of people who have stories to tell.
One in particular, who had 1/2 million dollars "Invested" with Newman.
 

There are many honest FE investigators who search for private funding in
order to continue their research.  As long as success is elusive,
investors are going to put up money with no results to show for it.  But
there are also a few "snake" types of people who see nothing wrong with
masquerading as legitimate maverick scientists in order to make money. How
to tell the difference?  I think its quite hard, because the dishonest
people often have been lying for so long that they eventually believe
their own lies, and aren't quite lying anymore.

Bill, I share your disdain for the ubiquity of mendacity.  It has always frustrated
me when people tell lies, be it from a subconscious or a fully conscious force.
In the case of Mr. Newman, I find the cult nature of the whole thing, and the
long on-going list of people badly hurt, to make the stakes much higher than
just one person lying.  I consider him a well polished, methodical predator, rather
than just a simple liar.  The size of Mr. Newman's ego (World's Greatest Scientist),
along with  his claims of direct revelations from GOD, make him closer to a
schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur.  This coupled with his "communication"
with UFO's, judging people by the shape of their eyebrows, etc., etc., would
usually just be considered raving lunatics...........until they gather a band of
disciples.   Can you say "Jim Jones", or "David Koresh" ?
 
 And an angry investor
might be the victim of a scam, or might just be pissed off about the
inventor's lack of success.  As long as secrecy is the order of the day,
it will be impossible to tell who is who.

Without secrecy, the task would be much easier.  Follow the money.

I am in the process of doing just that.
Is it
being used for research, or is it ending up as an enormous personal
salary?  Test the devices.  Does the inventor claim success, but always
have excuses for why the device cannot be tested?


Not only can the unit not be tested, but there are no kinds of information
forthcoming from Mr. Newman, as to what the test procedures entail,
nor is there any information as to who verified the test results.

 

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

Regards,
Norm Biss
Erie, Pa.
4-18-99

normpems@erie.net
  --------------031CD7B9F6F7F8D8A453B79D-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 13:14:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26451; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:13:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:13:52 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <536a52e0.244b96c7@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:12:55 EDT Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA26431 Resent-Message-ID: <"1Kl3m2.0.BT6._pZ6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dans un courrier daté du 11/04/99 12:24:44é), David@Bahnhof.se a écrit : > Can you increase your voltage? I suppose UFOs symmetrical shape is because > the need to rotate in order to gyrostabilize their unstable thrust? > Hi David, I apologize for not responding to you sooner... I know well the Valones book because I have this book in my labs... With the EHD-FS v1.0 or v2.O I can't increase the voltage because at higher voltage there are sparks... With the EHD-FS v1.0 I have measured a weight reduction of about 14% at 28kV. The shape of the arcuate electrode is very important, now I have already tested other different shapes and I have noticed that this is a very important parameter for increasing the thrust. In a improved device it is possible to use a long coil placed just in the axis of the ship for increasing the speed and also set the medium path to a spiral form around the ship. This is a M-EHD Flying saucer, this is why an Adamski type saucer have a coil in the main axis... Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 13:59:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01682; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:52:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:52:40 -0700 Message-ID: <371A46AE.699BA16C@erie.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:55:10 -0400 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Beaty CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F534D3FCD3DC9F2902767650" Resent-Message-ID: <"YRd3x3.0.BQ.OOa6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9981 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --------------F534D3FCD3DC9F2902767650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Beaty wrote: > On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Norm Biss wrote: > > > He is also asking for $3,500.00 down payment. If you will go to the following > > URL: > > > > http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic/biss.htm > > Hi Norm! I just now read the later additions to your above website. Want > some free advice? (Perhaps worth only what it costs!) Sure. The day I stop learning, is the day I start dying. > > > I've been drawn into flamewars many times over my years on internet, and > have gradually figured out what it takes to come out on top (or at least > to not be dragged down.) When running FREENRG-L and frequently dealing > with enraged crackpots, I've had a chance to hone my skills. I honestly need all the help I can get. I did not get on the internet until December 10th of last year, and since it is a long learning curve, I still have much to learn. > > > When fighting with an asshole in public, it is important to realize that > hurting your opponent is not the goal. The goal is to show your audience > exactly what your opponent really is like. A second worthwhile goal is to > turn your opponent's attacks around so he ends up hurting his own cause. > With this in mind, clearly it is critically important to behave with total > squeaky-clean integrity. Respond to accusations by calmly telling the > whole truth, ESPECIALLY IF PARTS OF IT MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. Don't stretch > the truth the least little bit, and the lies of your opponent will become > staggeringly obvious. Under no circumstances use any of the foul tactics > that your opponent uses, and this especially goes for lying and for > NAMECALLING. If your opponent spews ugly names and accusations at you, > and you do the same back to him, onlookers will assume that you simply > hate each other. I plead "Guilty" to the name calling, however, I stayed strictly with the truth, because I wanted to be able to prove, (at any time) the veracity of my statement. I now realize that I should have couched the events in a more palatable manner. Without having any experience in dealing with something of this nature, I just struck out at Mr. Newman. > They'll assume that anything either of you say is > twisted-up crap caused by anger, and that the fight is just another > internet "flamewar", the same as all the others. People will ignore both > of you. On this point, Bill, I will disagree with you. Mr. Newman is/was a person who was not unknown to many people. My name was completely unknown. This man spent two months at our facility, and in that time I found out that he could really turn the Charm on. In addition, when he speaks, he has a following who not only listen, but take his word for "Holy Writ"! I knew it was going to be an uphill battle for me to get my message across. He would have been listened to, while I would have been ignored. > On the other hand, if your opponent descends into namecalling yet > you do not, then onlookers will realize that you are not being driven by > anger, and therefor they will take all of your words very seriously. And > they will ignore the ravings of your opponent! When an asshole attacks a > person of integrity, it becomes very clear which one is which. > > When I read your website and see you and Mr. Newman trading nasty names, > my instant assumption is that the two of you have just had some kind of > falling-out, and that your accusations are caused by hurt feelings, not by > any real events. I assume that you both are stretching the truth in order > to make the other guy look bad. Then I have to remind myself that I've > seen the type of crap that Newman pulls, and I realize that your > complaints are the ones to trust. Thank You very much. > But then I think, "Oh damn, the people > who don't know about Newman are going to see this fight just like I did at > first: as two honest but angry people who are upset about a business deal > which has gone bad." I would like to clarify a point here. "A business deal which had gone bad"? Yes, it was that. But this was a business deal between Mr. Newman, and my employer. Mr. Newman contacted me, and I convinced my employer to enter into a deal with Mr. Newman. Joe Newman betrayed that trust, and used me. He then proceeded to make it appear as though everything that went wrong was my fault. I am the one who is angry over Joe Newman's actions. Joe Newman, on the other hand, is feigning anger to make it appear as though he were the one wronged. > > > There's a saying... "never wrestle with a pig, since you'll get all > filthy, and the pig enjoys it." By calling Mr. Newman names, rather than > by responding to his nasty epithets with calm respect, you've lost the > fight. I've changed my strategy, somewhat, and it is not yet over. > Your own namecalling makes it look like a tiff between two Joe > Newmans. Instead if you could respond with impeccable integrity, it would > make Joe's accusations look like the desparate manuverings of a liar who's > been caught. > > I suspect that, deep inside, Joe Neman (Or should we say, EVAN SOULE') ?knows > that if he can get you to > respond with anger and namecalling, he will keep you from being taken > seriously. In other words, he now has you right where he wants you. > > Sorry to be so blunt. Your bluntness is appreciated, as well as your honesty and courage to be forthright. In the future, I will know that I can trust your judgement. > I had hoped that finally somebody was going to show > the world just who Newman really is. But now I'm frustrated because Joe > avoided the trap, and got you to descend towards his level. Please stay tuned. That was only the opening gambit. > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Regards, Norm Biss Erie, Pa. 4-18-99 normpems@erie.net --------------F534D3FCD3DC9F2902767650 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

William Beaty wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Norm Biss wrote:

> He is also asking for $3,500.00 down payment.  If you will go to the following
> URL:
>
> http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic/biss.htm

Hi Norm!  I just now read the later additions to your above website.  Want
some free advice?  (Perhaps worth only what it costs!)

Sure.  The day I stop learning, is the day I start dying.
 

I've been drawn into flamewars many times over my years on internet, and
have gradually figured out what it takes to come out on top (or at least
to not be dragged down.)  When running FREENRG-L and frequently dealing
with enraged crackpots, I've had a chance to hone my skills.

I honestly need all the help I can get.  I did not get on the internet until
December 10th of last year, and since it is a long learning curve, I still
have much to learn.
 

When fighting with an asshole in public, it is important to realize that
hurting your opponent is not the goal.  The goal is to show your audience
exactly what your opponent really is like.  A second worthwhile goal is to
turn your opponent's attacks around so he ends up hurting his own cause.
With this in mind, clearly it is critically important to behave with total
squeaky-clean integrity.  Respond to accusations by calmly telling the
whole truth, ESPECIALLY IF PARTS OF IT MAKE YOU LOOK BAD.  Don't stretch
the truth the least little bit, and the lies of your opponent will become
staggeringly obvious.  Under no circumstances use any of the foul tactics
that your opponent uses, and this especially goes for lying and for
NAMECALLING.  If your opponent spews ugly names and accusations at you,
and you do the same back to him, onlookers will assume that you simply
hate each other.

I plead "Guilty" to the name calling, however, I stayed strictly with the truth,
because I wanted to be able to prove, (at any time) the veracity of my statement.
I now realize that I should have couched the events in a more palatable manner.
Without having any experience in dealing with something of this nature, I just
struck out at Mr. Newman.
They'll assume that anything either of you say is
twisted-up crap caused by anger, and that the fight is just another
internet "flamewar", the same as all the others.  People will ignore both
of you.
On this point, Bill, I will disagree with you.  Mr. Newman is/was a
person who was not unknown to many people.  My name was completely
unknown.  This man spent two months at our facility, and in that time
I found out that he could really turn the Charm on.  In addition, when
he speaks, he has a following who not only listen, but take his word for
"Holy Writ"!   I knew it was going to be an uphill battle for me to get
my message across.  He would have been listened to, while I would have
been ignored.
 On the other hand, if your opponent descends into namecalling yet
you do not, then onlookers will realize that you are not being driven by
anger, and therefor they will take all of your words very seriously.  And
they will ignore the ravings of your opponent!  When an asshole attacks a
person of integrity, it becomes very clear which one is which.

When I read your website and see you and Mr. Newman trading nasty names,
my instant assumption is that the two of you have just had some kind of
falling-out, and that your accusations are caused by hurt feelings, not by
any real events.  I assume that you both are stretching the truth in order
to make the other guy look bad.  Then I have to remind myself that I've
seen the type of crap that Newman pulls, and I realize that your
complaints are the ones to trust.

Thank You very much.
 But then I think, "Oh damn, the people
who don't know about Newman are going to see this fight just like I did at
first: as two honest but angry people who are upset about a business deal
which has gone bad."
I would like to clarify a point here.  "A business deal which had gone bad"?
Yes, it was that.  But this was a business deal between Mr. Newman, and my
employer.  Mr. Newman contacted me, and I convinced my employer to enter
into a deal with Mr. Newman.  Joe Newman betrayed that trust, and used me.  He then proceeded to make it appear as though everything that went wrong was my fault.
I am the one who is angry over Joe Newman's actions.  Joe Newman, on the other
hand, is feigning anger to make it appear as though he were the one wronged.
 

There's a saying... "never wrestle with a pig, since you'll get all
filthy, and the pig enjoys it."  By calling Mr. Newman names, rather than
by responding to his nasty epithets with calm respect, you've lost the
fight.

I've changed my strategy, somewhat, and it is not yet over.
 Your own namecalling makes it look like a tiff between two Joe
Newmans.  Instead if you could respond with impeccable integrity, it would
make Joe's accusations look like the desparate manuverings of a liar who's
been caught.

I suspect that, deep inside, Joe Neman (Or should we say,  EVAN SOULE') ?knows that if he can get you to

respond with anger and namecalling, he will keep you from being taken
seriously.  In other words, he now has you right where he wants you.

Sorry to be so blunt.

Your bluntness is appreciated, as well as your honesty and courage to be
forthright.  In the future, I will know that I can trust your judgement.
I had hoped that finally somebody was going to show
the world just who Newman really is.  But now I'm frustrated because Joe
avoided the trap, and got you to descend towards his level.
Please stay tuned.  That was only the opening gambit.
 
 

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

Regards,

Norm Biss
Erie, Pa.
4-18-99

normpems@erie.net --------------F534D3FCD3DC9F2902767650-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 14:07:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA15453; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:06:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:06:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990418165812.007b7500@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:58:12 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... In-Reply-To: <536a52e0.244b96c7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mn-8u1.0.Cn3.Aba6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9982 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jean-Louis, At 04:12 PM 04/18/99 EDT, Jean-Louis Naudin wrote: In >a improved device it is possible to use a long coil placed just in the axis >of the ship for increasing the speed and also set the medium path to a spiral >form around the ship. This is a M-EHD Flying saucer, this is why an Adamski >type saucer have a coil in the main axis... So you will be utilizing the magnetic fields only to retard spark formations and arcing. This allows higher voltages to be applied. Is that correct? Best Regards, Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 14:14:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29999; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:14:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:14:23 -0700 Message-ID: <371A2EA5.1D5E04A@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:12:37 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Chinese Pyramids References: <3.0.5.32.19990417225504.00b32800@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"espOS.0.PK7.kia6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9983 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://www.lauralee.com/chi_pyr.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 14:15:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA30026; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:14:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:14:26 -0700 Message-ID: <371A2EA8.A316B51A@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:12:40 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: 'Flying Saucer' Model Uses Lasers As Energy Source References: <3.0.5.32.19990417225504.00b32800@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"agyZH1.0.iK7.lia6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9984 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com NASA Space Science News Marshall Space Flight Center 4-17-99 Riding the Highways of Light Science mimics science fiction as a working model flying disc - a "Lightcraft" - takes to the air April 16, 1999: It looks like another fine product of Area 51, and it really is shaped like a flying disc, and would even fly like one. If it works, the family tree will trace back not to Roswell, New Mexico, but Troy, New York. "It came out of a trans-atmospheric vehicle design course at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute," which is in Troy, explained Prof. Leik Myrabo. The microwave Lightcraft being studied by Myrabo and his students is shaped that way because that's how the physics works. It's an advanced derivative of a tiny, 25-gram craft that he is pushing around on a 10 kilowatt beam of infrared laser light in tests at White Sands Missile Range, N.M. Myrabo discussed his work last week during the Advanced Propulsion Research Workshop held in Huntsville. "This is where we are now," Myrabo said, showing a picture of Dr. Robert Goddard with his first liquid propellant rocket, launched March 16, 1926. Just 43 years later, a sophisticated descendant of that rocket sent the first humans to the Moon. "My goal has been to cut the cost of getting to space by a factor of 1,000 using a system that is completely green," he explained of his passion for the past three decades. Since 1972, he has been building on an idea developed by Arthur Kantrowitz to use lasers to launch satellites. Myrabo introduced a variation using the atmosphere as the propellant heated by a laser. At higher altitude and at 5.5 times the speed of sound, as the air thins, the craft would use a small supply of on board hydrogen, still heated by the remote laser beam. Myrabo's initial design for NASA was a 5-meter (16.5 ft) diameter, four-person craft - "ma and pa in the front, two kids and a dog in the back" - in a shape that he dubbed Acorn. The front is shaped to reflect the coherent laser light into a narrow region between the body and a shroud. The focused light superheats the air to become a jet exhaust that pushes the craft up. In this case, the laser power station would be based in orbit. He next worked on the Toy Top design which reversed the optics for lasers based on the ground. The Strategic Defense Initiative Organization was interested in this approach for rapid launches of satellites weighing around 100 kg (220 lbs). Under continued Air Force and NASA sponsorship, Myrabo has developed and test flown a 15 cm (6 inch) diameter model of the Toy Top Lightcraft. "We just passed Goddard's second flight of 92 feet (28 meters)," Myrabo said. That limit, though, is set at 120 ft (37 m) by a light shield erected by a crane to stop the light beam and eliminate the chance of blinding a satellite sensor. The next step is to develop a 150 kilowatt laser that would boost a larger model to 30 km (18 mi) altitude. Eventually, a 1 gigawatt laser would be needed to orbit satellites as Kantrowitz, Myrabo, and others have long envisioned. It's possible, though, that it all might be supplanted by mid-21st century by the microwave Lightcraft. When word of his work got around to the Space Studies Institute in Princeton, Myrabo was asked if he could design a similar craft that used microwaves beamed from space since microwave transmitters were a more mature technology than lasers. [Image: Myrabo (right) watches as students at Rensselaer run a computer simulation for the air spike wind tunnel test on the Lightcraft model held by the student at left. (RPI photo)] The concept that evolved is a part airship, microwave receiver, and (the smallest part) jet and rocket engine, and as green as any space concept. The 12-person, 20-meter (66 ft) craft would be powered from the Earth's surface to the Moon by sunlight captured by an orbiting power station (1 km diameter, 20 GW power), converted to microwaves, and beamed to rectennas (rectifying antennas) that turn it back into electricity on the Lightcraft. That's where the saucer shape comes from. The airship part is a pressurized helium balloon-type structure made of advanced silicon carbide film (transparent to microwaves) to make the craft partly buoyant and to provide for a large parabolic reflector for the energy beamed from space. The craft would be encircled by two superconducting magnet rings and a series of ion engines, and topped with solar cells. At launch, the Lightcraft would use electricity from its solar cells (powered by an infrared space-based laser at night) to ionize the air and move the craft through electrostatic discharges. The craft could move at 80 to 160 km/h (50-100 mph). That's just low gear. Switching on the microwave transmitter would make the Lightcraft disappear in less than an eye blink. The microwaves would be focused by the internal reflector to heat the air on one side or the other of the craft and push it in the opposite direction. "This is used to climb out to a good altitude and beyond the speed of sound where you use the magnetohydrodynamic drive," Myrabo continued. Now the craft tilts from flying edgewise to flying flat into the air stream. That seems wrong but for another trick. The microwaves are reflected forward to create a superhot bubble of air above the craft and form an air spike that acts as the nose cone as the Lightcraft accelerates to 25 times the speed of sound. "This cleans up the aerodynamics of a vehicle that does not look like it should fly in that direction," Myrabo said. Even better, when the load is properly balanced the craft sails through the air without leaving a shock wave and virtually no supersonic wake. Water is used by the craft to cool the rectennas and as a propellant in the last stages of ascent. At least initially, during the prototype phase, it won't be for everyone, just NASA and military test pilots. The hyper-energetic performance will require that the crew ride in liquid-filled escape pods to protect them from g-forces greater than even fighter pilots occasionally endure. In some Air Force Space Command schemes, the crew would breath an oxygenated fluid to protect their lungs. It all sounds a bit too much like science fiction, but Myrabo points out that most of the technologies or principles have been demonstrated. Faculty and students at Rensselaer have demonstrated the MHD slipstream accelerator and the air spike concept in a high-speed wind tunnel, and will test new models of other parts of the propulsion system later this year. "If successful, this will cut the cost of getting to space to whatever someone wants to charge for electricity from the orbiting power station," Myrabo said. "You could go halfway around the world in 45 minutes, or from the Earth to the Moon in about 5-1/2 hours." At the Moon, the Lightcraft would zoom down a series of ring-shaped electromagnets that would slow the craft, or could accelerate another Lightcraft for the return to Earth. "This would require a fully mature infrastructure to support these vehicles," Myrabo said. But it could bring about an era of airline-like space travel on "highways of Light." More information about the Lightcraft program, including additional images and Quicktime movies, are available at the *Lightcraft web site at RPI. * Join our growing list of subscribers - *sign up for our express news delivery and you will receive a mail message every time we post a new story!!! * For more information, please contact: Dr. John M. Horack , Director of Science Communications Author: Dave Dooling Curator: Linda Porter NASA Official: Gregory S. Wilson http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/prop16apr99_1.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 14:15:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA30294; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:14:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:14:38 -0700 Message-ID: <371A2EAE.95E59303@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:12:46 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: For King and Country.. References: <199904180033.TAA28862@mw3.texas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"S0aHa3.0.AP7.-ia6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9985 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well said Joe! Joe Portman wrote: > > Sorry, boys, I'm no professor. When I speak it is strictly the voice of > experience from a graduate of the school of hard knocks. > I know what empiricism is, but have seldom used it. Instead of starting at > the bottom, I go up in a plane, find what I think is a good starting point, > bail out with no chute, figure out how to land safely, then float down in a > wave of applause from my peers. > Like the man says, the brain is like a Swiss army knife, built to do > anything.....hmmmm....but you must trust it, in spite of criticism by your > peers. > Joe Portman > ========= > > ---------- > > From: Dennis C. Lee > > To: Recipient list suppressed > > Subject: Re: For King and Country.. > > Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 2:33 PM > > > > At 08:12 AM 4/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >Alan, > > > I enjoyed your comments....good thoughts. > > >Joe Portman > > >=========== > > > > >> On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:38:26 -0500, "Joe Portman" > wrote: > > >> >Here's another of mine; "A man can learn a lot stumbling around in > the > > >> >dark" > > >> > > >> Man who stumble around in dark had best wear armour plating on > > >> shins. > > > > I thought it sounded kind of scary too. Threw me off, I thought I heard > that > > duh before but maybe not. Then I realized, Portman, oh haha. Whatever. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 16:13:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27025; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:12:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:12:38 -0700 Message-ID: <371A65B4.F2C8CC4A@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:07:38 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: JOE, A BIG FRAUD ?? References: <13f42b8d.244701ba@aol.com> <37168CA2.75E6EDCC@erie.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9USdG2.0.9c6.cRc6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >> Norm Biss Wrote: > > > > Finally, I think you must consider the character of the individual > making claims for a device, which > for the last 20 years, he has been saying will be on sale in a few > months. Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha. > Now I realize that some > of the most inventive geniuses in recorded history had some pretty > bizarre quirks in their makeup. > I personally do NOT have any respect for an individual who would marry > an 8-year-old girl, and > then say the reason for it was because GOD told him to do it. Right On, That goes double for me. This is what you can call an Illuminated lunatic. Did Joe marry an 8 year old ? People, let me tell you this. Two years ago Joe asked for 50 Grands to secure the distribution rights and ship the first motor generator that is 10kW OVERNIGHT. Now, How many "investors" received their motor yet ? None, and that's 2 YEARS AGO. Now Joe is asking for 3,500 $ and you have to wait till june and I suppose in June he will say "wait a few months later". :-) Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. 2 YEARS AGO, I phoned Joe about the $50,000 investment and Joe was only interested by the money. I was 18 years old and wanted only information about his device and this is the good one, do you know what Joe told me: "I can tell by your voice that you don't have the money" However, and that's the GOOD ONE, I happen to know a generators distributor that would have been VERY interested in starting this with me, also my father is a businesman. So I asked Joe if he had documentary information on his "motor/generators" so I can show interested parties. Joe Replied: "I can tell by your voice that you don't have the money, too many people are blowing smoke, so I am not going to send you anything" So I won't put my or anybody's money in Joe's venture. Any company ready and urged to do business would send corporate information about their products. So I don't trust Joe anymore. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 18:16:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA28333; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:15:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:15:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990418211425.0076e7bc@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: aces79@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:14:25 -0400 To: donadams@telusplanet.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Zac Miller Subject: Re: Chinese Pyramids In-Reply-To: <371A2EA5.1D5E04A@telusplanet.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990417225504.00b32800@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3xDNH1.0.cw6.4Fe6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Check out: http://home.interpath.net/aztlan/brainrape/ Under the section about Ancient Cultures, there are photographs, articles, ect. about pyramids in China, Japan, Ancient Indian, Mayan, Egyptian, and others. The whole site is full of interesting information. >http://www.lauralee.com/chi_pyr.htm Zac Miller - Artemis Society International http://www.asi.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 19:08:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07827; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:08:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:08:05 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lorentz force Message-Id: <924487650.10919.420@excite.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:07:30 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.147 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"q-Aw1.0.8w1.40f6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:28:16, Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi All, > > About a week ago Bob Gray posted a message (Weber Electrodynamics) about > the Lorentz force and that some researchers found that a iron crosspiece > experienced a force opposite from a (copper) crosspiece when current was > sent through it by connection to 2 conductive rails. The 2 rails were > connected to a high current electrical supply. > > I tried this today, and could get neither to roll (The classic theory says > the crosspiece will experience force to roll to increase the area enclosed > by the circuit formed by the 2 rails, the crosspiece, and the power > supply.) I used a No. 10 AWG copper crosspiece, and it would lightly weld > itself to the 2 copper rails. The iron crosspiece about the same diameter > would arc at one or both the connections. Both crosspieces seemed to > experience a "sticking" force to the rails when pushed along (crosspiece > attracted to the rails). > > Has anyone tried any similar experiments? Is pure DC required, say from a > storage battery, or a capacitor discharge (rail gun) type circuit? I used a > simple supply with a 60Hz transformer, FWCT rectifier, and filter > capacitor. The output is about 2 volts under load at a current somewhat > greater than 100 Amps. > -Dave Penny projectile railgun at http://members.tripod.com/~mad_coiler/railgun/ _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 21:06:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA32337; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:06:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:06:23 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Lorentz force in hydrolysis Message-Id: <924494753.15606.812@excite.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:05:53 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.147 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"b94r32.0.Av7.-kg6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9989 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Lorentz force reaction in electrolysis at http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/lfg.htm A "fluid" demonstration of Lorentz force, said by some to be the "secret" to exotic forms of propulsion, can be seen by filling a cylindrical metal can with water (to which a small amount of acid has been added to enhance conduction of electricity), connecting that can to a negative battery terminal, and inserting a positive-connected, rod-shaped terminal into the center of the water in the can (without shorting out the two terminals). This cylindrical capacitor, filled with liquid electrolyte, is then placed within the field of a stack of ring magnets. The result is that the water begins to bubble and churn in a spiralling vortex, the direction depending on the relative polarities of the crossed fields. _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 21:13:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01986; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:12:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:12:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199904190412.GAA25426@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Question For The Minds. Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 04:06:50 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sp7UD3.0.qU.7rg6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >What is actually happening is that the image gets "burned into" the > >retina of the eye for a short period of time. The retina desensitizes to > >brighter light sources. If you then shift your gaze or focus a bit, you > >will have the desensitized area on the retina overlapping the actual > >object with a negative of the image. > What Zack says was tested and found to be almost totally correct. The > colored square test was tried and confirmed, although once started back on > the subject, further testing was conducted and it was determined that > 'organic' substances when viewed do in fact produce the effect described, > yet metals, (i.e., copper, steel) when viewed do not. I notice an "border-effect" on every(?) material, ferriet, magnets, glass, keys, vanadium, red plastic... > This leaves a question that may need expansion on maybe the reflective > qualities of metal tend to reduce or eliminate the effect or in some way > reduce it to a point in which the eye recovers more quickly. To test this > further I'm trying to come up with some good light colored reflective > surfaces and *SEE* :-) the result. Maybe there are more effects?? > I received a number of private communications from the other side. Strange > but the response is more in favor of the aura concept than the scientific > approach. And perhaps people, in the past, likes to believe in dragons and ghosts...:-)).. Aris... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 22:17:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15149; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:17:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:17:13 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <6e189e43.244c1637@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:16:39 EDT Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: quinney@inforamp.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA15130 Resent-Message-ID: <"D2uEz2.0.ci3.Pnh6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9991 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dans un courrier daté du 18/04/99 23:07:45é), quinney@inforamp.net a écrit : > So you will be utilizing the magnetic fields only to retard spark > formations and arcing. This allows higher voltages to be applied. Is that > correct? > > Best Regards, > Colin Quinney > Yes, this is one of the job of the B-Field, also, with the Lorentz force applied to the medium (air/aether), the path of the fluid begin in spiraly form ( a kind of fibanocci ), because there is two components: one is radial and the other tangential... The delayed medium trajectory, increase the speed on the upper surface of the arcuated electrode, thus this increase the differential hydrostatic pressure... ( Bernoulli's law can be applied here..(Coanda effect on the medium (Air/Aether))... This was I have called this effect the M-EHD ( Magneto - ElectroHydroDynamic effect ).. Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 23:43:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA32065; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:42:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:42:41 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:41:50 EDT Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, quinney@inforamp.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"yPLVH1.0.sq7.W1j6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9992 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 18/04/99 23:07:45, quinney@inforamp.net wrote : > So you will be utilizing the magnetic fields only to retard spark > formations and arcing. This allows higher voltages to be applied. Is that > correct? > > Best Regards, > Colin Quinney Don't forget that during a charging process of a conventional plate capacitor, during this transient phase, the energy come from outside the capacitor towards the center of the dielectric (the Poyting flow is radial and parallel to the plate(S=ExB)).. ("Lecture on physics" Electromagnetism vol2, Richard Feynman). So, there is a moving energy (Aether?) flow from the outside to the center... Regards Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 18 23:57:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA02199; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:56:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:56:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:55:44 -0400 From: Ralph E Griffin Subject: Re: Lorentz force Sender: Ralph E Griffin To: Free Energy List Message-ID: <199904190255_MC2-7284-A8C2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA02182 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lgzx1.0.GY.wEj6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On April 14, Dave Dameron wrote: << Hi All, About a week ago Bob Gray posted a message (Weber Electrodynamics) about the Lorentz force and that some researchers found that a iron crosspiece experienced a force opposite from a (copper) crosspiece when current was sent through it by connection to 2 conductive rails. The 2 rails were connected to a high current electrical supply. I tried this today, and could get neither to roll (The classic theory says the crosspiece will experience force to roll to increase the area enclosed by the circuit formed by the 2 rails, the crosspiece, and the power supply.) I used a No. 10 AWG copper crosspiece, and it would lightly weld itself to the 2 copper rails. The iron crosspiece about the same diameter would arc at one or both the connections. Both crosspieces seemed to experience a "sticking" force to the rails when pushed along (crosspiece attracted to the rails). Has anyone tried any similar experiments? Is pure DC required, say from a storage battery, or a capacitor discharge (rail gun) type circuit? I used a simple supply with a 60Hz transformer, FWCT rectifier, and filter capacitor. The output is about 2 volts under load at a current somewhat greater than 100 Amps. -Dave >> Hi Dave, Here is a suggestion. Don't use a rolling cross piece. Use a taunt piece of wire. Put a mono-directional current pulse through the wire. This will make the wire ring. The polarity of the first half sinusoid of that ring will indicate the polarity of the impulse caused by the current pulse. Connect a small transduced to the wire (or place it near the wire) so you can read the ring signal including polarity. Now you can repeat the experiment to see if the same direction of current pulse will produce opposite polarities of the first half sinusoid of the ring response when using iron instead of copper. Earlier you said "The classic theory says the crosspiece will experience force to roll to increase the area enclosed by the circuit formed by the 2 rails, the crosspiece, and the power supply." Perhaps when you use an iron conductor, the attraction of the iron to the magnetic field in the current loop becomes a greater force in the opposite direction. R.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 02:27:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA25987; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:25:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:25:53 -0700 Message-ID: <007501be8a46$93426b60$731a0fcb@default> From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" To: , Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:55:29 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"0X0lC.0.uL6.XQl6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -----Original Message----- From: Paul Smith To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' Date: Wednesday, 14 April 1999 04:39 Local Subject: RE: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? >I believe the system to disperse the jet exhaust more efficiently was to >charge the leading edge of the wing with a high negative voltage, and charge >the jet exhaust with a positive charge. > As far as I had been made aware - or should I say researched - that was the methodology that was to used for that function :-) But there again, what would an outwoodsman from Australia really know about any of this ? ;-) Glenville. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 03:41:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA18305; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:39:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:39:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199904191039.MAA21010@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: JOE, A BIG FRAUD ?? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:33:18 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1_xLD2.0.wT4.xVm6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > Finally, I think you must consider the character of the individual > > making claims for a device, which > > for the last 20 years, he has been saying will be on sale in a few > > months. > > Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha. I always like laughing people...(lolololol).. > > Now I realize that some > > of the most inventive geniuses in recorded history had some pretty > > bizarre quirks in their makeup. > > I personally do NOT have any respect for an individual who would marry > > an 8-year-old girl, and > > then say the reason for it was because GOD told him to do it. > > Right On, That goes double for me. This is what you can call an > Illuminated lunatic. Did Joe marry an 8 year old ? If so is this legal nowadays in de states?? Are there any single 8 year female on the list??? > People, let me tell you this. Two years ago Joe asked for 50 Grands to > secure the distribution rights and ship the first motor generator that > is 10kW OVERNIGHT. Now, How many "investors" received their motor yet ? > None, and that's 2 YEARS AGO. Perhaps a shipment problem, it happens to my all the time... Well here my five cents again, you should go for BBB... These guys find out if somebody is a reliable business partner, your dad should know that.... > Now Joe is asking for 3,500 $ and you have to wait till june and I > suppose in June he will say "wait a few months later". :-) Ha Ha Ha Ha > Ha. I suppose you really like it, you are having lot's of fun...:-)))).. > 2 YEARS AGO, I phoned Joe about the $50,000 investment and Joe was only > interested by the money. I was 18 years old and wanted only information > about his device and this is the good one, do you know what Joe told me: > > "I can tell by your voice that you don't have the money" Well I can see it at your info, I wouldn't do business to with an 18 year old boy... > However, and that's the GOOD ONE, I happen to know a generators > distributor that would have been VERY interested in starting this with > me, also my father is a businesman. Well if both are interested they can call theirselves, I suppose they know how to dial... > So I asked Joe if he had documentary information on his > "motor/generators" so I can show interested parties. > > Joe Replied: > > "I can tell by your voice that you don't have the money, too many people > are blowing smoke, so I am not going to send you anything" Are you blowing smoke??? > So I won't put my or anybody's money in Joe's venture. Any company ready > and urged to do business would send corporate information about their > products. So I don't trust Joe anymore. So you don't trust any stubborn farmer anymore?? I don't know Joe but after al these stories I would like to meet him... Even only for the great jokes he makes with business people I DON'T trust cause the only thing they do is thinking about money... BTW do you have money cause I think I have a really good investment which might attrack your interest...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I can tell it by your voice...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Regards, Aris (who always likes a good laughter) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 10:28:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25134; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:26:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:26:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990419090757.23770e1e@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:07:57 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force In-Reply-To: <924487650.10919.420@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5_jvg3.0.d86.STs6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 07:07 PM 4/18/99 PDT, Harvey wrote: > >Penny projectile railgun at >http://members.tripod.com/~mad_coiler/railgun/ > Thanks for this link. Interesting with a very large HV capacitor bank. It must have been painfully loud the one time it was fired. I wonder if the arc/explosions could have propelled the penny up instead of along the rails. To continue my experiments, have had to put the rails in a wooden soundproof box. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 10:28:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25197; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:27:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:27:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990419090821.23773c56@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:08:21 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force In-Reply-To: <199904190255_MC2-7284-A8C2@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"puaiv.0.c96.cTs6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 02:55 AM 4/19/99 -0400, Ralph wrote: > >Here is a suggestion. Don't use a rolling cross piece. Use a taunt piece >of wire. Put a mono-directional current pulse through the wire. This will >make the wire ring. The polarity of the first half sinusoid of that ring >will indicate the polarity of the impulse caused by the current pulse. >Connect a small transduced to the wire (or place it near the wire) so you >can read the ring signal including polarity. If the wire is connected this way, with solid electrical connections, all the problems with the arcing connections would be removed. I don't know how much of the force is generated by the plasma explosions at the contacts. Will think about a transducer to see the mechanical movement/ringing. > >Now you can repeat the experiment to see if the same direction of current >pulse will produce opposite polarities of the first half sinusoid of the >ring response when using iron instead of copper. > Perhaps when you use an >iron conductor, the attraction of the iron to the magnetic field in the >current loop becomes a greater force in the opposite direction. Yes that may well be the cause of the difference?? Thanks for the suggestions. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 13:02:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02605; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:00:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:00:59 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: Lorentz force Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:58:41 +0200 Message-ID: <01be8a9f$05bf2a40$c6df1ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"2fAzi3.0.Te.xju6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi >>Penny projectile railgun at >>http://members.tripod.com/~mad_coiler/railgun/ >> >Thanks for this link. >Interesting with a very large HV capacitor bank. It must have been >painfully loud the one time it was fired. Big cap bank for a good railgun can sound like a rifle shot. > >I wonder if the arc/explosions could have propelled the penny up instead of >along the rails. Possibly could also have been the lack of field coils. I must just add that using your projectile as a switch is not the best plan for this. You might try searching for a Project called SERAPHIM (Segmented Phased Rail Induction Motor) Some guys I used to work with mentioned this thing it may have bearing to what you want to do. I have never been able to find it. Supposedly some university or somethings project. BTW Dave do you have a schematic for that magnetizer of yours? Would it be able to do horseshoe magnets as well? Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 14:14:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27094; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:05:11 -0700 (PDT) MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:02:39 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:17:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win In-reply-to: <001201be88de$7661f100$1588fea9@y9g6r3> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2008ZXWQOCMIJ X400-MTS-identifier: [;93207191409991/3675656@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lb_Kc1.0.Ed6.zfv6t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/9999 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com All, Come on guys, the paranoia is getting kinda thick around here lately. All you had to do was check with your ISP, and they would have told you that the whole internet has been flaky all weekend long with unreachable pages, slow transmission and spotty service. All the pages that you gave as examples of being censured by the men in black or the CIA, or whoever your personal bogey man is, I could get to just fine with my T3 connection here at work. But at home here in Ohio I couldn't even get to my bank's WEB page, while I could reach it from my dad's house in Michigan, using the same ISP. I seriously doubt anyone is targeting my bank for subversive activities. Coincidentally I had updated my 56KFlex modem firmware to V.90 the night before this all started, and was playing around with a MTU utility to fine tune my packet handling from my ISP. I was kinda sweating it thinking I had munged things up. I gave up around midnight Sunday, and called my ISP to check on the recommended MTU setting to use with them (Concentric). That's when I found out about the spotty network problems. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>At 09:06 AM 4/17/99 GMT, you wrote: >>>On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:48:40 GMT, rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van >>>Spaandonk) wrote: >>> >>>>On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:09:18 EDT, RoConroy@aol.com wrote: >>>>[snip] >>>>>responsibly. URL: >>>>>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/grnhs24.htm >>> >>>>I tried this URL with no luck. Compuserve says they can't find it. >>> >>>Likewise. Compuserve also seems to disclaim all knowledge of a >>>user "robert_conroy". >> >> >>Oh my God. Does this mean that I am the victim of CIA type 'Black Project' >>machinations? Bummer, I wanted to compare dome design features. Concrete >>shell and lexan windows/skylights are complete. We are almost done with the >>2x8 framing bevels. >> >> >>Dennis >> >> >Dennis! You walk on water or so you think. > >It is common knowledge that a very large industry exists monitoring the >Internet, as in phone system monitoring certain keys are used to cause alert >status and either record or direct the data to live monitors. In fact >Microsoft pays heavily for this information, it help them 'BETTER' their >products. > >International calls (wonder about every call) will set off all kinds of >bells and whistles when the right words are found in the content. Start send >encoded messages over the Inet to a foreign country on a regular basis and >see what happens. > >None of this is a *JOKE*, if you play with fire long enough you are going to >get burned, and I'm sure that this list is by now popping up quite often >just as a result of keys over the pas few days. > >Ron... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 14:57:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04696; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:55:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:55:27 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <105d3ab9.244d001a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:54:34 EDT Subject: Re: Lorentz force: Simple exp. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"bHOfq2.0.A91.FPw6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/18/99 11:58:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ralph_griffin@CompuServe.COM writes: << Has anyone tried any similar experiments? Is pure DC required, say from a storage battery, or a capacitor discharge (rail gun) type circuit? I used a simple supply with a 60Hz transformer, FWCT rectifier, and filter capacitor. The output is about 2 volts under load at a current somewhat greater than 100 Amps. -Dave >> I did a simple low-current experiment to determine whether in a rail gun geometry the force was any different on a copper cross-member as compared to a steel (high mu) cross-member. It wasn't ideal, but was sensitive enough that a difference in *direction* of the force on the cross-member should be easy to see. I suspended the cross-members onto a scale (1 milligram sensitivity) by the "rail" wires so that about half the weight was on the scale and half on the suspension wires. When I turned on the current (about 5 amps) the scale reading immediately increased by about ten milligrams and after a few seconds increased by about 150 milligrams more. What I believe happened is that the 10 milligram increase was due to the magnetic force and the much larger change due to the thermal expansion of the "rail" wires from the current. In any event, there was no difference I could see between a copper and a steel cross-member. The suspension "rail" was aluminum wires. Of course, this didn't address the rail/cross-member electrical contact surface, if some kind of effect were occuring there. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 15:05:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05163; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <371BA7B5.D34BF7C5@erie.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:01:26 -0400 From: Norm Biss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, FE-OU-FraudVictims@onelist.com Subject: (Fwd.) Joe Newman's Response to Norm Biss Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CCD1C6551B4F6F12BB889B3E" Resent-Message-ID: <"a-fwV3.0.aG1.XVw6t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CCD1C6551B4F6F12BB889B3E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CBED9F491B1EF0D38BBB5DA9" --------------CBED9F491B1EF0D38BBB5DA9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List Members, I received this response from Joe Newman, Re: my post of last Thursday. I would be interested in any comments. Thank You. Respectfully, Norm Biss Erie, Pa. 4-19-99 normpems@erie.net --------------CBED9F491B1EF0D38BBB5DA9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List Members,

I received this response from Joe Newman, Re: my post of last Thursday.
I would be interested in any comments.

Thank You.

Respectfully,

Norm Biss
Erie, Pa.
4-19-99

normpems@erie.net --------------CBED9F491B1EF0D38BBB5DA9-- --------------CCD1C6551B4F6F12BB889B3E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from onelist.com (pop.onelist.com [209.207.164.213]) by moose.erie.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA05995 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14425 invoked by alias); 19 Apr 1999 20:51:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 14367 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1999 20:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com) (206.214.98.14) by pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 20:51:56 -0000 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA13962; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:26:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gra-mi10-15.ix.netcom.com(207.220.133.143) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013810; Mon Apr 19 16:24:59 1999 Message-ID: <371B9EA0.2EA2A310@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:22:40 -0400 From: DreamPackers Organization: DreamPackers X-Sender: "DreamPackers" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) To: eric@voicenet.com CC: free_energy@onelist.com References: <371AB52C.3E9FAAF0@voicenet.com> Mailing-List: list free_energy@onelist.com; contact free_energy-owner@onelist.com Delivered-To: mailing list free_energy@onelist.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [free_energy] Re: free energy X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 From: DreamPackers Here's a response to the list from Mr. Newman regarding Biss & ASSc. The following has been posted to the internet by inventor Joseph Newman: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN 11445 East Via Linda, Suite 2416 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 (602) 657-3722 josephnewman@earthlink.net www.josephnewman.com REPLY OF JOSEPH NEWMAN TO THE LYING, PANICKING NORM BISS AND HIS EMPLOYER, JOE PUGLIESE: It has been said that "lies can race around the world while the truth is still lacing up its bootstraps." This is certainly true in this instance. It should be obvious that Biss, Pugliese and others such as themselves are now panicking because they now know that they are going to be exposed as the liars, cowards, and scum that they are. I urge those sincere individuals who would like to obtain additional proof of the operability of my technology to obtain a copy of the recently-produced 90-minute VHS tape featuring my newest Motor/Generator design. This can be obtained by contacting my office at the above address and telephone number. Remember, not long ago Norm Biss and his employer, Joe Pugliese, were claiming -- in no uncertain terms -- that my Energy Machine did NOT work. Now, all of a sudden, Mr. Biss is stating that my technology HAS MERIT, but that it costs too much to construct relative to its sales price. FACT: Obtain the 90-minute VHS tape and you will see for yourself the extent to which such individuals as Mr. Biss and Mr. Pugliese are "lying scum." If my accusations appear harsh, it is because I have invested many years in innovating the Theory and Technical Process which has led to the creation of a revolutionary, energy technology for humanity --- I take my life's work seriously, despite the inaccurate and erroneous claims of Mr. Biss to the contrary. Mr. Biss and his ilk would have you believe that I am a "con" and/or "scam artist". It is they who are the true "con AND scam artists" because they are deliberately misleading and misinforming you about the nature of my life's work. Over the years I have raised many thousands of dollars from those who have invested in my life's work. I have never wavered in my commitment to them, and to all of humanity, to bring forth this technology. And at one point and in a short space of time, for instance, I acquired over $500,000 from those who have invested in my work. My only obligation to these investors was that they would receive an interest in future income generated by the production of the technology. Had I been as unscrupulous as Mr. Biss would have you believe, I could have easily taken these funds which were totally under my control, and "disappeared." I could also have done so "legally," but not ethically or morally. Instead I chose to invest EVERY SINGLE PENNY (and much more) in my long battle to obtain a patent for my life's work. And I will continue to fight for my rights --- both for the benefit of myself, my investors, humanity, and for those innovators yet unborn --- until the day I draw my last breath. Over the years, my legal costs exceeded many hundreds of thousands of dollars. The Founding Fathers of our country created the U.S. Patent Office for the protection and nourishment of innovation. I want nothing more nor nothing less than the patent protection to which I am entitled under the Constitution of our country. Ironically, many thousands of your tax dollars have been spent by patent office bureaucrats FIGHTING this technology, while the issuance of a patent for my technology would not have cost the American taxpayer A SINGLE PENNY! Yet patent office bureaucrats have rigorously and continuously fought against my life's work. Eleven different Congressman (Democrats and Republicans) introduced eleven different Congressional Bills seeking the issuance of a Congressional Patent on my behalf. These Congressmen had taken the time to honestly and sincerely look at the record of treatment I have suffered, and they concluded that, indeed, I have received massive injustice. All of this legislation was blocked in Congress by one entrenched Congressman who refused to even hold hearings on the Bills because he specifically stated that the President of the United States opposed such legislation on my behalf. Ask yourself this: Since when does a Democratic Congressman care what a Republican President thinks about proposed legislation? Since when does the Executive Branch of government dictate the actions of the Legislative Branch of government? [The documentation of this was broadcast on the A & E Network which featured a Special about my life's work.] I will continue to fight for my patent rights as long as it takes. Fact: By the evidence of his own words, Norm Biss has now changed his position about my technology. Earlier he was trying to claim why it does not work and now he states that my technology has "MERIT". This is further proof that he and others like him are liars who deliberately distort the truth. Fact: Likewise, now Mr. Biss deliberately attempts to take my religious beliefs totally out-of-context regarding the essence of what I originally wrote in a lengthy Press Booklet which I mailed to the newsmedia, to major embassies, and to people throughout the world. Fact: It has been repeatedly demonstrated that when evil people, politicians, and individuals such as Norm Biss cannot prove a truth incorrect by the presentation of honest facts, that they then revert to a deliberate and distorted attack upon the truth of the individual's religion, race, or national origin. Fact: Other than a speeding ticket, I have NEVER been charged or convicted of ANY violation of ANY law for ANYTHING at ANY TIME! And anyone who says or implies otherwise is a deliberate LIAR. Twelve years ago and in the "eyes of God" I publicly announced --- through a Press Booklet mailed across the country to over 300 members of the newsmedia as well as the major embassies of the world --- that God wanted Christians to love Islamic people and all other five major religions, and vice-versa. Fact: At that time I was receiving extensive worldwide publicity regarding my Energy Machine technology. I had recently appeared on all major national news networks, LIFE magazine, the Tonight Show, and in hundreds of newspapers and radio talk shows throughout the world. Just as God has spoken to many people throughout the centuries with His miracles, God mentally spoke to me and told me to warn the world of forthcoming major conflicts which could launch World War III! Fact: During that time I was living in Southern Mississippi --- the heart of the "stiff-necked Bible Belt". I was raised in this environment and I well know from personal observation that people in this region have great bigotry against anyone who they perceive as different from them. Black people especially know the truth of this. Fact: Honest people who read my lengthy Press Release Booklet caringly told me that my comments "describing what God asked me to do to warn the HUMAN RACE, reminded them of Abraham." Fact: I knew then that I would be "attacked, castigated, and ridiculed" by individuals living in the "stiff-necked Bible Belt" in which I was raised. Fact: Both the newsmedia, loved ones, and so-called friends turned away from me and my life's work of the Energy Machine invention. As a result of my love of humanity and my service to God, I was literally in a "prison of loneliness" which I describe in my book. Fact: Why did I do this? Answer: Because I symbolically and bravely SCREAMED out that Christians and Islamic people should love one another. (And so to for the people of the other five major religions of the world.) Fact: The Editor of the George County Times in Lucedale (the town in which I lived at the time) even wrote an Editorial saying, "People should listen to Joseph Newman because I was saying the same things taught by Jesus Christ." Fact: People in Lucedale, Mississippi never confronted me in relation to my published statements but were generally quiet and polite to me and they went out of their way to say "Hello" to me whenever I went anywhere in town. These people respected me for the GUTS I displayed in continuously holding steadfast to my warnings about how God would punish us if we failed to truly respect one another's religious beliefs and love one another rather than engage in war and destruction. Fact: At the very moment that I write this, Christians and Islamic people are KILLING EACH OTHER in Yugoslavia. American men and women are now becoming involved in increasing numbers. If you watch any of the major news broadcasts regarding this escalating conflict, you will see that warnings against such destruction were issued at Fatima, at Lourdes, at Medjugorie, by Nostradamus, and in Chapter 10 from the book of Isaiah. Fact: We are on the threshold of World War III! This has been triggered by the religious hatred of both Christians and Islamic people! This hatred was exactly what God asked me to warn the entire world about over 12 years ago. Fact: Norm Biss --- the lying, scum coward that he is --- attempts to put forth a deliberate distortion of this Truth. By his actions which deliberately mislead and distort the message that I published over 12 years ago, Norm Biss, in effect, condones the action of the Yugoslavian dictator, and like him he is guilty of the same evil "mind-set" against Islamic People. Fact: God will DAMN and visit Norm Biss and those like him! Watch and see for yourself! Fact: My recent Press Release described the fact that the odds were more than 105 million to 1 against it being an "accidental occurrence" that the seven major religions should all have a single unifying timeline (the number "14"). Such mathematical odds demonstrate to me the proof that God ordains and demands that all seven major religions love one another. Having at one time been an atheist, the very repetitive occurrence of the number "14" (which I have extensively documented elsewhere) appears more than a simple "coincidence" and proved to me that God was real. Accordingly, I included a Chapter entitled "Recommended Proof of God's Existence" in the first Edition of my fundamental book, originally published in 1984. Fact: I have never made ANY apologies for my service to God and Humanity. This Truth is well documented in every edition of my book THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN, including the recent 8th Edition. Mr. Norm Biss, his employer Joe Pugliese, Mr. Pugliese's company, and others are going to be sued for their malicious and lying statements they have made about me and my life's work. The recent comments by Mr. Biss are indicative of his panic and adds additional evidence of his deliberate violation of our Contract. With respect to the INITIATED statements against myself over the past months --- remember the essence of the old proverb: "I THINK THEY ACCUSE TOO MUCH." GUILTY people always do this! Mr. Biss also described my "Theory" as "unproven". He specifically used these two words. This demonstrates that Mr. Biss does not understand the Scientific Method which, in his case, is not surprising. A Theory is a PROVEN, corroborated Hypothesis. If he correctly understood the Scientific Method, then he would have stated his (mistaken) belief that Joseph Newman's "Hypothesis" is "unproven". The fact is, however, that I have fundamentally and mechanically explained numerous phenomena in science for which there were previously no such explanation. I have achieved this through my Theory of the Gyroscopic Particle and the successful operation of my Energy Machine invention. Similarly, Mr. Biss's comments about "UL Testing" as it relates to my technology are inaccurate and misleading. I have explained this in detail to those individuals who have personally contacted me in Scottsdale, Arizona. In fact, my personal telephone number and mailing address are well publicized - something which Mr. Biss has refused to provide. Of course, if I published inaccurate, misleading, and lying statements as Mr. Biss, then I too would seek anonymity. At this time I am busy working to bring forth my life's work and I do not have the time to continuously respond to the inaccuracies, misleading statements, and lies posted by Mr. Biss and his ilk. To the honest and sincere people --- if you have any doubt who is the REAL liar, obtain a copy of my 90-minute VHS tape. I produced it to enable even the layperson to understand the validity of my work and know that it is indeed operable and verifies my Theory and Technical Process. The response of those who have viewed the tape has been one of great excitement and a sincere desire to help bring forth this technology. Equipped with the information on the videotape, others can enable me to concentrate on production by responding to those individuals who post lies and inaccurate comments about the technology and my dedicated service to God and Humanity. FACT: As a young man in September 1962 I launched a Plastic Covered Barbell Company. [The plastic-covered barbell is my invention and it involved not only the innovation of the concept but also of the machinery necessary to effect the process.] As you may know, this product is now sold worldwide. In 1962 I told people with whom I was associated that I would make delivery of the finished products by December of that year in time for Christmas. Everyone at the time said I could not possibly produce the product so fast. FACT: By Christmas of that year I had already made delivery of the product to major retail stores across the country and was myself continuing to give demonstrations to the general public. The forthcoming production of my Energy Machine technology is also my goal. If I secure a sufficient number of advance deposits to enable me to order the raw materials and assemble the production facility, then the first units will be produced by the end of June. If it takes longer than this to secure sufficient advance deposits, then those who have paid their advance deposits will have the choice of having their deposits refunded to them after June 30, 1999 or waiting for the duration of a mutually-agreed upon timeline for completion of the Newman Motor/Generators. In conclusion, I would like to add that my book contains many testimonials from individuals who have known me for many decades and who recognize my sincerity, my honesty, and my integrity. [Signed] Joseph Westley Newman P.S. Prior to becoming the appointed Commissioner of the Patent Office and using the taxpayer's money to vigorously oppose my efforts to obtain a patent (which would be at NO cost to the American taxpayer), Mr. Donald Quigg was a top executive with Philips Petroleum for several decades. The same groups of "old boy networks" who have opposed my technology have now succeeded in raising the basic price of gasoline sold to you by more than 25% in the past two weeks. I respect those who have the courage and sincerity to come forth and speak out on behalf of a technology that would render oil obsolete as a fuel source. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the perfect gift for a friend? http://www.ONElist.com Tell them about ONElist's 115,000 free e-mail communities! --------------CCD1C6551B4F6F12BB889B3E-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 15:12:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16693; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:10:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:10:41 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:06:09 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:37:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Hi Dielectric constant materials In-reply-to: <924326032.19076.863@excite.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2005ZXWQPV2IP X400-MTS-identifier: [;90608191409991/3675764@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"wrtpE.0.e44.Wdw6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10002 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Harvey, I think this was brought up before about conduction through concrete. Since any high frequency can be seen as two superimposed but out of synch transmisions at half the same frequency, or four at a quarter, ad infinitum. Wouldn't it be reasonable that energy at high frequencies be sucked up at all the multitude of harmonics that could be induced in the random crystaline structure of concrete. Then in this random crystaline structure all these subharmonics would start heterodyning against each other in an ever more random cascade of frequencies, until your left with just so much static hash. There was some discussion that pressure stressed (sp?) concrete would ring at certain frequencies. However the manner in which it was made would make the crystaline structure less random to get this ringing effect. But since since I assume you were using standard blocks, it would not be frequency range specific. When you get a chance to look at this some more, in addition to seeing if any of these frequencies are conducted through the concrete, you might want to check to see if this energy is being turned into heat energy, or static electricity. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >discharging the energy of the capacitor in a high frequency oscillation >with the inductance of of the TC primary. Now one time I had used concrete >blocks to place the copper bars on and instead of an arc occuring across the >air gap it jumped straight into the block, which implies the concrete was >more conductive than the air gap at those conditions. I have devised a test >to see if such a conductive effect will occur on this sample: >will report when made in the next few days. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 15:42:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07942; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:40:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: euston.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:39:33 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@euston To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Thermoelectric convertors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-559023410-758783491-924561573=:7619" Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"qmxV01.0._x1.n3x6t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---559023410-758783491-924561573=:7619 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: All, A document with the thermodynamic cycle. Word 97 format, zipped with pkzip. Jist of it is that in portion 2 to 3 of cycle, the spontaneous magnetisation of the ferromagnetic material falls to zero as temperature rises, power coil picks up this change in flux. The excitor coils (the tuned circuits) see zero net flux change and so do zero electricl work. Informed comments most appreciated, 'Arguments' along the lines 'You can't break such and such law, because I say so, or big-tree said so' will get you nowhere. 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From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lorentz force: Simple exp. Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:11:04 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <371bb723.1571594@mail-hub> References: <105d3ab9.244d001a@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <105d3ab9.244d001a@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA11158 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q9PXa2.0.Ul2.mWx6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:54:34 EDT, Keasy@aol.com wrote: [snip] > I suspended the cross-members onto a scale (1 milligram sensitivity) by the >"rail" wires so that about half the weight was on the scale and half on the >suspension wires. When I turned on the current (about 5 amps) the scale >reading immediately increased by about ten milligrams and after a few seconds >increased by about 150 milligrams more. What I believe happened is that the >10 milligram increase was due to the magnetic force and the much larger >change due to the thermal expansion of the "rail" wires from the current. [snip] Unless thermal expansion caused the wires to move resulting in a weight redistribution, I can't think of any reason why it would result in a change in weight. Perhaps you could redo the experiment, but include a switch in the circuit, so that you can reverse the direction of current flow after the second weight increase? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 16:26:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18368; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:25:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:25:34 -0700 Message-ID: <371BBEA1.78B360B2@servtech.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:39:13 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keasy@aol.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lorentz force References: <105d3ab9.244d001a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-mWJ9.0.vU4.jjx6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10005 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Since there seems to be some interest in this subject here, I'll quote from Peter Graneau's and Neal Graneau's book "Newtonian Electrodynamics", pp. 188 and 189: "While working on the experiment (rail gun) ... the authors accidentally placed a ferromagnetic carbon stell rod armature on the rails and observed that it rolled in the wrong direction toward the battery. This surprising behavior was perfectly repeatable. Because of the pressure of other research it was not published. However in May of 1992 Peter Graneau was asked to review a paper by Hungarian authors Bardocz-Todor and Meszaros...who had discovered the same effect. ... As far as we know, the paper by the Hungarian authors has not been published." The description of the rail gun is as follows from p. 171 of the same book: "(Neal Graneau) used two half-inch diameter copper pipes as rails and laid a quater-inch diameter stainless steel rod across the rails. The latter would act as armature and roll away from the breech. A 12V car battery served as the current source." >From the Peter Graneau's paper/lette in Galilean Electrodynamics, March/April, Vol. 9, No. 2, 1998, pp. 35 - 36: "A pair of current rails (half-inch diameter copper pipes) are bridged by a quater-inch diameter metal rod. Two adjacent ends of the rails are connected to a 12V car battery via a suitable switch. This forms a primitive reailgun. Copper, aluminum and atainless steel rods will roll away from the battery as the switch is closed. This is normal railgun action. If, however, the rod consists of carbon steel, it will roll toward the battery! This is retrograde railgun action." Enjoy!! Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 16:35:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23645; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:34:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:34:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199904192334.SAA24078@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:32:23 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wtAmB3.0.Mn5.Lsx6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com 99 times out of 100, it's the phone co krappy lines, being very subject to weather. Joe Portman. =========== ---------- > From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 > To: freenrg-l > Subject: Re: [free_energy] FREE ENERGY I give up, you win > Date: Monday, April 19, 1999 3:17 PM > > All, > > Come on guys, the paranoia is getting kinda thick around here lately. > > All you had to do was check with your ISP, and they would have told you that the > whole internet has been flaky all weekend long with unreachable pages, slow > transmission and spotty service. > > All the pages that you gave as examples of being censured by the men in black or > the CIA, or whoever your personal bogey man is, I could get to just fine with my > T3 connection here at work. But at home here in Ohio I couldn't even get to my > bank's WEB page, while I could reach it from my dad's house in Michigan, using > the same ISP. I seriously doubt anyone is targeting my bank for subversive > activities. > > Coincidentally I had updated my 56KFlex modem firmware to V.90 the night before > this all started, and was playing around with a MTU utility to fine tune my > packet handling from my ISP. I was kinda sweating it thinking I had munged > things up. > > I gave up around midnight Sunday, and called my ISP to check on the recommended > MTU setting to use with them (Concentric). That's when I found out about the > spotty network problems. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > > >>At 09:06 AM 4/17/99 GMT, you wrote: > >>>On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:48:40 GMT, rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van > >>>Spaandonk) wrote: > >>> > >>>>On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:09:18 EDT, RoConroy@aol.com wrote: > >>>>[snip] > >>>>>responsibly. URL: > >>>>>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/grnhs24.htm > >>> > >>>>I tried this URL with no luck. Compuserve says they can't find it. > >>> > >>>Likewise. Compuserve also seems to disclaim all knowledge of a > >>>user "robert_conroy". > >> > >> > >>Oh my God. Does this mean that I am the victim of CIA type 'Black Project' > >>machinations? Bummer, I wanted to compare dome design features. Concrete > >>shell and lexan windows/skylights are complete. We are almost done with the > >>2x8 framing bevels. > >> > >> > >>Dennis > >> > >> > >Dennis! You walk on water or so you think. > > > >It is common knowledge that a very large industry exists monitoring the > >Internet, as in phone system monitoring certain keys are used to cause alert > >status and either record or direct the data to live monitors. In fact > >Microsoft pays heavily for this information, it help them 'BETTER' their > >products. > > > >International calls (wonder about every call) will set off all kinds of > >bells and whistles when the right words are found in the content. Start send > >encoded messages over the Inet to a foreign country on a regular basis and > >see what happens. > > > >None of this is a *JOKE*, if you play with fire long enough you are going to > >get burned, and I'm sure that this list is by now popping up quite often > >just as a result of keys over the pas few days. > > > >Ron... > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 16:52:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28913; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:48:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:48:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990418195852.00a5aa10@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:58:54 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Joe Newman's response to Norm. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fAKas1.0.b37.U3y6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Lying Panicking Norm. This is Laughing Hyena Keith. Well, just Laughing Hyena really, you must rate to get name recognition from Joe. So, what else is new? Joe fulminates, God gets upset, and free energy is "a few months away". Should this excite us? Really Norm, it does little good to help spread Joe's missives. We've had our fill from the master, Evan Soule. The last time this stuff got bandied about, a virtual fist fight broke out between Evan and a long time listmember. I guess if anything of value is to come of this, we should discuss the workings of cults and why people are attracted to them. I'm not sure if this is germaine to the list, I suppose if you want to discuss it go ahead and we'll stop if the list gets annoyed. It is off topic. I suggest to start you check out this link. http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/bfm/ It's a biography of L Ron Hubbard, of the church of $cientology. He's a sort of rosetta stone or calibration standard of cults; read his life story and learn. K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 17:25:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09928; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:24:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:24:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990419201609.009b8360@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:16:09 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: Lorentz force In-Reply-To: <371BBEA1.78B360B2@servtech.com> References: <105d3ab9.244d001a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YHxSb.0.uQ2.aay6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 07:39 PM 04/19/99 -0400, Bob Gray wrote: >>>From the Peter Graneau's paper/lette in Galilean Electrodynamics, March/April, >Vol. 9, No. 2, 1998, pp. 35 - 36: > >"A pair of current rails (half-inch diameter copper pipes) are bridged by >a quater-inch diameter metal rod. Two adjacent ends of the rails are >connected to a 12V car battery via a suitable switch. This forms a >primitive reailgun. Copper, aluminum and atainless steel rods will roll >away from the battery as the switch is closed. This is normal railgun action. >If, however, the rod consists of carbon steel, it will roll toward the battery! >This is retrograde railgun action." > >Enjoy!! And we have to guess why? Ok. I'll make a fool of myself: Carbon steel is ferromagnetic, but the copper, aluminum, and stainless steel rods are not. (At least stainless # 101 is not.) The carbon steel rod is acting just like any ferromagnetic material that is [partially] inside of a [one loop coil] electromagnet. It is riding the magnetic gradient towards the area of highest field strength, which, in this case, is toward where the current flow exists-- toward the battery. Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 17:42:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA17964; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:41:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:41:57 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hi Dielectric constant materials Message-Id: <924568886.3836.478@excite.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:41:26 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.56 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"RXdXO.0.bO4.Lry6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10009 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:37:32 -0400 (EDT), Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > Harvey, > > I think this was brought up before about conduction through concrete. > > Since any high frequency can be seen as two superimposed but out of synch > transmisions at half the same frequency, or four at a quarter, ad infinitum. > > Wouldn't it be reasonable that energy at high frequencies be sucked up at all > the multitude of harmonics that could be induced in the random crystaline > structure of concrete. Then in this random crystaline structure all these > subharmonics would start heterodyning against each other in an ever more > random cascade of frequencies, until your left with just so much static hash. I only described this course of events in the context that it could be reproduced by anyone else building a medium size tesla coil whereby these effects seemed strange and worthy of mention. I concluded exactly as posted; that in THESE circumstances the concrete @ 166,000 hz presented less a resistance than the air gap designated in the function of primary arc gap that has a quenching or shutting off process inherent in its function. The concrete arcing may not have served this purpose. > There was some discussion that pressure stressed (sp?) concrete would ring at > certain frequencies. However the manner in which it was made would make the > crystaline structure less random to get this ringing effect. > > But since since I assume you were using standard blocks, it would not be > frequency range specific. What I specifically was talking about was going off on a tangent and putting additives in a concrete curing so that it might have a higher dielectric constant in a finished product. This is precisely what I did by adding powdered ferrite in the cure. > When you get a chance to look at this some more, in addition to seeing if any of > these frequencies are conducted through the concrete, you might want to check to > see if this energy is being turned into heat energy, or static electricity. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > > > >discharging the energy of the capacitor in a high frequency oscillation > >with the inductance of of the TC primary. Now one time I had used concrete > >blocks to place the copper bars on and instead of an arc occuring across the > >air gap it jumped straight into the block, which implies the concrete was > >more conductive than the air gap at those conditions. I have devised a test > >to see if such a conductive effect will occur on this sample: > >will report when made in the next few days. > This test will not be expected to yield a conductive result. Perhaps I was engaging in speculation. Of course the result hoped for; a substance that can conduct with discrimination to frequency parameters would be a useful thing. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 18:38:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04583; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:37:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:37:16 -0700 Message-ID: <371BD9C6.1DAE8D9D@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:35:02 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lorentz force References: <105d3ab9.244d001a@aol.com> <371BBEA1.78B360B2@servtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vNFaI.0.W71.Bfz6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Could it be due to the carbon steel being very magnetic, The steel is attracted to the magnetic flux of the rest of the circuit which over powered the normal effect? Robert Gray wrote: > Since there seems to be some interest in this subject here, I'll quote > from Peter Graneau's and Neal Graneau's book "Newtonian Electrodynamics", > pp. 188 and 189: > > "While working on the experiment (rail gun) ... the authors accidentally placed > a ferromagnetic carbon stell rod armature on the rails and observed that it > rolled in the wrong direction toward the battery. This surprising > behavior was perfectly repeatable. Because of the pressure of other research > it was not published. However in May of 1992 Peter Graneau was asked to review > a paper by Hungarian authors Bardocz-Todor and Meszaros...who had > discovered the same effect. ... As far as we know, the paper by the Hungarian > authors > has not been published." > > The description of the rail gun is as follows from p. 171 of the same book: > > "(Neal Graneau) used two half-inch diameter copper pipes as rails and laid a > quater-inch diameter stainless steel rod across the rails. The latter would act > as armature and roll away from the breech. A 12V car battery served as the > current source." > > >From the Peter Graneau's paper/lette in Galilean Electrodynamics, March/April, > Vol. 9, No. 2, 1998, pp. 35 - 36: > > "A pair of current rails (half-inch diameter copper pipes) are bridged by > a quater-inch diameter metal rod. Two adjacent ends of the rails are > connected to a 12V car battery via a suitable switch. This forms a > primitive reailgun. Copper, aluminum and atainless steel rods will roll > away from the battery as the switch is closed. This is normal railgun action. > If, however, the rod consists of carbon steel, it will roll toward the battery! > This is retrograde railgun action." > > Enjoy!! > > Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 21:04:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA25398; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:55:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: (Fwd.) Joe Newman's Response to Norm Biss To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <371BA7B5.D34BF7C5@erie.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"51QH72.0.kC6.1n_6t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10011 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It is very unprofessional to call someone "lying scum". Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 21:08:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18253; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:02:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:02:59 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: (Fwd.) Joe Newman's Response to Norm Biss Message-Id: <924580941.5789.561@excite.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:02:21 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.56 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"SGYbb.0.0T4.on_6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10012 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:01:26 -0400, Norm Biss wrote: Thanx for the published reply Norm. It doesnt take an idiot to see that Joe Newman has said it all now. He has proclaimed that God has put a curse on you in so many words... If he isnt vain I cannot imagine the context of the words "taking the lord's name in vain" in a better example. A lot of people however looked up to Joe Newman in that he inspired others to promulgate his discovery, and to the results of experimentation he has half a leg to stand on. If you have a copper magnetic field its quantity of magnetic lines is far below that of its ferromagnetic counterpart. Additionally those copper magnetic lines might have an inbedded spin that ferromagnetic lines do not contain. The advantage of making a magnetic field by copper windings alone is that it can move much faster through space by virtue of expansion and collapse of fields than its ferromagnetic counterpart. These of course are the well known facts of high frequency induction heating; the semi-mysterious tesla coil and other modifications. The fact that I see is that others were looking beyond their noses so far that they missed the point. The very simplest things are explained at first in a simple way. If you have an effect whereby a high frequency magnetic field aided a rotating magnet the reasonings about how this occurs do not make sense at first.The reasoning that energy is stored in a magnetic field by induction,and then returned to the system both ways on its collapse still does not satisfy me as a theorist to explain any extra energy. Only by accident did I make an observation; if we looked at the two resonant electrical circuits which are series and parallel resonance, and ran each one backwards in time and compared them with their counterparts one would have an opposite mirror image and the other would not. That is because one circuit is symmetrical with respect to time and the other is assymetrical. It would take a moment to explain this... If one resonates an induction coil it normally needs an appropriate cancelling capacitance at its resonating freq. How these are placed together determines whether an opposite can occur when they are placed mirror image. A parallel circuit mirror image is itself:identical. A series circuit however provides a left-right mirror image. In this thought experiment or gedanken we can see that if the series circuit is filmed and then played backwards as if it were the same thing happening in backwards in time; Then we can make the same occurrence that occured in the film simply by reversing the connections to the series circuit! But when we try this with the parallel circuit we find that the same analogy does not apply. This leads to the beginning of the wondering that led me in a quest of this question; How can this be? It can be because there is another circuit that contains both of these possibilities. This is a modified parallel resonant circuit. In that circuit is like a special hybrid whereby both directions of currents in opposite directions can form a unity. The whole point of 20 years has been wasted on the idea of rotating a magnet.In reality a water molecule could easily have been a better appication of something to spin,instead of having to deal with this rediculousness; it would take a modern day tesla to make an efficient high frequency motor, although that is not out of the question. Gyroscopic precession on molecular levels whereby the collective actions in cohered electric-magnetic fields remains the most sensible alternative. Instead of a DC input and collapse via Newman methods coils can be placed into regular AC 60 hz resonance and easily adapted to high freq. oscillations via blinking hybrid circuit arc gap methods. Instead of focusing on a magnet that rotates in a magnetic field; the design becomes one of a super efficient eletrolysisor that can offer the possibilty of utilising the electric AND magnetic fields in TWO systems combined so that each one can correctly be phased so that when one has a full electric field of potential energy; the other has a full magnetic field of kinetic energy. A single system by itself can never do this because the sum of kinetic and potential energies is held to be a constant in that conservation law. Big+small=small+Big in any time period. Are we so unintelligent that we cannot decipher a single thing that needs to be done? If both systems can be BIG at the same time they have a possibible interaction that will contain more energy than either contains. That interaction is made by allowing them to share the same space at right angles: the famous term orthogonal. Done ranting... HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 21:08:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA20435; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:06:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:06:16 -0700 Message-ID: <00a801be8ae3$1c739a20$461a0fcb@default> From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" To: Subject: Re: (Fwd.) Joe Newman's Response to Norm Biss Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:35:51 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"AJyG01.0.5_4.tq_6t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10013 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hell Zack, our Australian Politicians do it all the time. But there again, they ARE politicians after all ! es 73 Glen VK5ZCF. Quote: " I put it to you mister speaker, that the honorable member is a Lying Scumbag, just what we have come to expect from the opposition party members " Endquote: from Prime Minister Paul Keating. But he used to be an accountant, so that may explain it, and you think we are bad :-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 21:18:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27409; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:18:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:18:22 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <16909e21.244d5997@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 00:16:23 EDT Subject: Re: Lorentz force: Simple exp. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"hMTeC1.0.5i6.E007t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10014 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/19/99 4:14:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au writes: << Unless thermal expansion caused the wires to move resulting in a weight redistribution, I can't think of any reason why it would result in a change in weight. Perhaps you could redo the experiment, but include a switch in the circuit, so that you can reverse the direction of current flow after the second weight increase? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk That sounded quite reasonable, but upon thinking about it I don't believe reversing the current should change anything. The force acting on the cross-member, if we believe conventional theory, should be in the direction as to move the cross-member down the rail away from the source, regardless of which way the current is flowing. In my test that meant more weight on the scale, which is what happened, but I did not reverse the current. The post by Bob Gray does raise the issue of using a "carbon steel'' cross-member. I had assumed that a ferromagnetic steel was what should be used and chose the cheap and easy common steel nail. Copper is no problem --lots of copper tubing available. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 21:59:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA06482; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:57:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:57:59 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Postings Message-Id: <924584239.7230.712@excite.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:57:19 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.56 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"SPrmk2.0.Bb1.Mb07t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10015 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sometimes Im wondering why when I make a post do I not recieve it from the list sponsor? Its a good thing thing because I just rambled on a bit.. I wondered about this before when people made comments and I did not understand how they had received that when I had not replied to list but author. Nevertheless I wondered if anyone else has observed spontaneous mailbox entrees that occur days after they were posted. PS this is only a test message and I can understand 24 hours leeway. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 19 23:32:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA29526; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:31:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:31:24 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:30:22 -0400 From: Ralph E Griffin Subject: Re: Lorentz force Sender: Ralph E Griffin To: Free Energy List Message-ID: <199904200230_MC2-72A1-C795@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA29507 Resent-Message-ID: <"8ttCk2.0.FD7.yy17t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10016 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave Dameron wrote: >If the wire is connected this way, with solid electrical connections, all >the problems with the arcing connections would be removed. I don't know how >much of the force is generated by the plasma explosions at the contacts. >Will think about a transducer to see the mechanical movement/ringing. I don't think the plasma helps the Lorentz force. The force depends only on current density and geometry. Oh by the way, make sure that the transducer is not affected by the magnetic or electric fields around the wire being tested. You need sufficient distance and/or shielding between the transducer and the test wire. >> Perhaps when you use an >>iron conductor, the attraction of the iron to the magnetic field in the >>current loop becomes a greater force in the opposite direction. > >Yes that may well be the cause of the difference?? >Thanks for the suggestions. >-Dave It seems like it would be difficult to analyze, yet it seems like a likely cause of the difference. R.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 03:40:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA14443; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 03:36:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 03:36:59 -0700 Message-ID: <371C5928.B49C354D@harti.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:38:32 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy Subject: Re: Newman presale , How many ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yAbbT1.0.aX3.BZ57t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10017 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com RobtMcGarn@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 99-04-18 13:18:50 EDT, you write: > > << If it takes longer than > this to secure sufficient advance deposits, then those who have paid their > advance deposits will have the choice of having their deposits refunded to > them after June 30, 1999 or waiting for the duration of a mutually-agreed > upon timeline for completion of the Newman Motor/Generators." ---- Joseph > W. Newman >> > > Just throwing this out based on my own past experience... > > "...after June 30" is not specific enough. This sounds to me like when June > 30 rolls around, any requested refunds will be sent out right away, which > might not be the case. Both contract parties might be better served by > spelling out the refund period -- say, "refunds will be sent within 30 days > of written request" for example. I would think that re-writing this line > would help to avoid and screaming sessions, bad publicity, and law suits over > this issue. I would like to know, how many people already have actually paid 3.500 US$ for the promised delivery motor ?? Is this info confidential ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 04:33:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA24011; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:32:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:32:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199904201132.VAA16301@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:19:36 Subject: Rail Guns, Hover train brakes (was: Re: Lorentz force) Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"FHDvo1.0.6s5.KN67t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10019 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well I dont know what rail guns are, I've heard of a rail gun in Quake 2. Anyone seen the 550Km/h hover trains in Japan 8-) I read in a 1981 book on trains, that when they started developing these hover trains, they were designing the brakes, which were also frictionless...a horse shoe type electromagnet around an aluminium plate causes a braking action when you try to pull the plate out of the magnet...so they'll do that with the 'track'. What's the go here? Aluminium isnt ferrous eh? How does that work? And might it have anything to do with 'rail guns' :) On 20 Apr 99 at 2:30, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > Dave Dameron wrote: > > >If the wire is connected this way, with solid electrical connections, all > >the problems with the arcing connections would be removed. I don't know > how > >much of the force is generated by the plasma explosions at the contacts. > >Will think about a transducer to see the mechanical movement/ringing. > > I don't think the plasma helps the Lorentz force. The force depends only > on current density and geometry. Oh by the way, make sure that the > transducer is not affected by the magnetic or electric fields around the > wire being tested. You need sufficient distance and/or shielding between > the transducer and the test wire. > > >> Perhaps when you use an > >>iron conductor, the attraction of the iron to the magnetic field in the > >>current loop becomes a greater force in the opposite direction. > > > >Yes that may well be the cause of the difference?? > >Thanks for the suggestions. > >-Dave > > It seems like it would be difficult to analyze, yet it seems like a likely > cause of the difference. > > R.G. > > > > > _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Pop, in an uncontrolled environment Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, prefered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 04:33:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA23950; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:32:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:32:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199904201132.VAA16298@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:06:59 Subject: Re: (Fwd.) Joe Newman's Response to Norm Biss Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"7FZP-2.0.2s5.KN67t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10018 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com And how much is this video? The cost of the tape and production? I doubt it. Why isnt the video available on his web site? _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Pop, in an uncontrolled environment Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, prefered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 04:35:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA23987; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:32:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:32:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199904201132.VAA16306@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:29:55 Subject: Re: Lorentz force in hydrolysis Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"BvQcU1.0.is5.ON67t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10020 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wondering if anyone knows anything about the following factors in producing hydrogen with water: - Adding sodium bicarbonate to the water - using a better quality stainless steel as opposed to other metals - using magnets - using high voltage opposed to high current - using a frequency - using a collection of plates or tubes as opposed to a rod and a can Also, what is ORGONE? And I'm looking for more info on the JOE (not Newman ;)... Also wondering about this 'FOIL ROCKET' type experiment...sounds interesting. A large (6" dia. I think) dieclectric (???) thingy with a hollow centre having some sort of 'Gravity' effect??? Please correct my ignorence :) On 18 Apr 99 at 21:05, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > Lorentz force reaction in electrolysis at > http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/lfg.htm > > A "fluid" demonstration of Lorentz force, said by some to be the "secret" to > exotic forms of propulsion, can be seen by filling a cylindrical metal can > with water (to which a small amount of acid has been added to enhance > conduction of electricity), connecting that can to a negative battery > terminal, and inserting a positive-connected, rod-shaped terminal into the > center of the water in the can (without shorting out the two terminals). > This cylindrical capacitor, filled with liquid electrolyte, is then placed > within the field of a stack of ring magnets. > > The result is that the water begins to bubble and churn in a spiralling > vortex, the direction depending on the relative polarities of the crossed > fields. > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > > _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Pop, in an uncontrolled environment Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, prefered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 05:09:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA31557; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 05:08:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 05:08:13 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <802092f3.244dc7e4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:07:00 EDT Subject: Re: Postings To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"KmAxr2.0.-i7.ju67t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/19/99 9:59:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tesla4@excite.com writes: << Nevertheless I wondered if anyone else has observed spontaneous mailbox entrees that occur days after they were posted. PS this is only a test message and I can understand 24 hours leeway. HDN >> I have noticed that a few times but never knew whether to blame aol, where strange things do occur, or the list mailer. Possibly the problem could lie elsewhere, but I don't know enough about the internet to know where that might be. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 06:06:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA18041; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:05:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:05:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199904201305.IAA17652@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: , Subject: Re: Rail Guns, Hover train brakes (was: Re: Lorentz force) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:02:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6CDHL.0.jP4.Ak77t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10022 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Aluminum is not ferrous, but it is slightly magnetic....strange but true. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Pop > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Rail Guns, Hover train brakes (was: Re: Lorentz force) > Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 4:19 PM > > Well I dont know what rail guns are, I've heard of a rail gun in > Quake 2. Anyone seen the 550Km/h hover trains in Japan 8-) I read in > a 1981 book on trains, that when they started developing these hover > trains, they were designing the brakes, which were also > frictionless...a horse shoe type electromagnet around an aluminium > plate causes a braking action when you try to pull the plate out of > the magnet...so they'll do that with the 'track'. What's the go here? > Aluminium isnt ferrous eh? How does that work? And might it have > anything to do with 'rail guns' :) > > On 20 Apr 99 at 2:30, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > > > Dave Dameron wrote: > > > > >If the wire is connected this way, with solid electrical connections, all > > >the problems with the arcing connections would be removed. I don't know > > how > > >much of the force is generated by the plasma explosions at the contacts. > > >Will think about a transducer to see the mechanical movement/ringing. > > > > I don't think the plasma helps the Lorentz force. The force depends only > > on current density and geometry. Oh by the way, make sure that the > > transducer is not affected by the magnetic or electric fields around the > > wire being tested. You need sufficient distance and/or shielding between > > the transducer and the test wire. > > > > >> Perhaps when you use an > > >>iron conductor, the attraction of the iron to the magnetic field in the > > >>current loop becomes a greater force in the opposite direction. > > > > > >Yes that may well be the cause of the difference?? > > >Thanks for the suggestions. > > >-Dave > > > > It seems like it would be difficult to analyze, yet it seems like a likely > > cause of the difference. > > > > R.G. > > > > > > > > > > _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ > Pop, in an uncontrolled environment > Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) > pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, prefered) > pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) > WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm > _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 08:50:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA05020; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:49:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:49:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990420073050.23d78ffc@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:30:50 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force: Simple exp. In-Reply-To: <16909e21.244d5997@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"yc2qC3.0.LE1.v7A7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:16 AM 4/20/99 EDT, Ken wrote: >In a message dated 4/19/99 4:14:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au writes: > > That sounded quite reasonable, but upon thinking about it I don't believe >reversing the current should change anything. The force acting on the >cross-member, if we believe conventional theory, should be in the direction >as to move the cross-member down the rail away from the source, regardless of >which way the current is flowing. In my test that meant more weight on the >scale, which is what happened, but I did not reverse the current. > The post by Bob Gray does raise the issue of using a "carbon steel'' >cross-member. I had assumed that a ferromagnetic steel was what should be >used and chose the cheap and easy common steel nail. Copper is no problem >--lots of copper tubing available. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > Thanks for your experiment. I also was using a common (not a hardened one for concrete, etc.) nail and thought that was "carbon steel", as opposed to "high speed" steel used for drill bits, etc. I am also trying annealed steel wire, as well as a copper wire. Both ring with a current pulse, but I am not confident on which direction they move without an adequate sensor. I have tried other wires as levers, damped with added mass as a first quick and dirty test. As for magnetic attraction, have been wondering more about it. Although moving the crossarm toward the battery increases the magnetic field, so there would be an attraction, usually the field falls off as one moves from the conductive turn toward the center of the loop. That is the max field is already at the crosspiece or rails. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 11:38:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03301; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:38:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:38:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990420101734.238f9e8c@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:17:34 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force In-Reply-To: <199904200230_MC2-72A1-C795@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jO-lR1.0.Pp.JcC7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10025 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 02:30 AM 4/20/99 -0400, Ralph wrote: >Dave Dameron wrote: > >>If the wire is connected this way, with solid electrical connections, all >>the problems with the arcing connections would be removed. I don't know >how >>much of the force is generated by the plasma explosions at the contacts. >>Will think about a transducer to see the mechanical movement/ringing. > >I don't think the plasma helps the Lorentz force. The force depends only >on current density and geometry. Oh by the way, make sure that the >transducer is not affected by the magnetic or electric fields around the >wire being tested. You need sufficient distance and/or shielding between >the transducer and the test wire. > I think it is a different, pure mechanical force. Especially with the iron crosspiece, a VERY loud white "explosive" flash is formed at both rail contacts, one step up from just arcing. A pit is formed both in the crosspiece and rails, and the crosspiece jumps off the rails. It may fuse to the rails when it lands again. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 11:39:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03233; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:38:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:38:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990420100847.238f5144@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:08:47 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force In-Reply-To: <01be8a9f$05bf2a40$c6df1ac4@Martin.icon.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Tfcyz3.0.Mo.GcC7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10024 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 09:58 PM 4/19/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi > >>>Penny projectile railgun at >>>http://members.tripod.com/~mad_coiler/railgun/ >Big cap bank for a good railgun can sound like a rifle shot. You can say that again! Even my small test rig is painfully loud. >> >>I wonder if the arc/explosions could have propelled the penny up instead of >>along the rails. > >Possibly could also have been the lack of field coils. I must just add that >using your projectile as a switch is not the best plan for this. > >BTW Dave do you have a schematic for that magnetizer of yours? Would it be >able to do horseshoe magnets as well? > I have 2 types, both simple. The connections to the coil are by bolts so various coils can be used. For small coils like 10 turns, a SCR is used to discharge the capacitor bank. The + capacitor terminal goes to one coil terminal connection. The negative capacitor terminal goes to the cathode of the SCR. This way, the gate pulse is respect to the neg. cap. terminal. The anode (usually stud) of the SCR goes to the other coil terminal. A rectifier and small R in series are placed across the capacitor to drain any reverse ringing voltage. I would use this type with a horseshoe magnet, just wind some turns around it and try it with a keeper. The other type is with coils with many more turns and high enough resistance so the current is less than 10Amp or so. Then I use a relay. There is no problem on "make", but some provision has to be made to prevent "break" arcing. I either wait for the cap. to discharge and or place a reverse diode across the coil. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 16:48:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16228; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:45:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:45:22 -0700 Message-ID: <371D11E9.D2A21DE1@harti.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:46:49 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Cornwall RO Subject: Re: Thermoelectric convertors X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7_6sp1.0.Tz3.I6H7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10026 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Cornwall RO wrote: > > All, > > A document with the thermodynamic cycle. Word 97 format, zipped with > pkzip. Jist of it is that in portion 2 to 3 of cycle, the spontaneous > magnetisation of the ferromagnetic material falls to zero as temperature > rises, power coil picks up this change in flux. The excitor coils (the > tuned circuits) see zero net flux change and so do zero electricl work. > > Informed comments most appreciated, > 'Arguments' along the lines 'You can't break such and such law, because I > say so, or big-tree said so' will get you nowhere. > Remi. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: REP.ZIP > REP.ZIP Type: Zip Compressed Data (application/x-zip-compressed) > Encoding: BASE64 Hi Remi, this is very interesting. I like the idea very much. Normally only clockwise rotating areas deliver positive output energies and violate the second law. But do I see it right, that the cycle just shows the consumation of heat energy ? It does not show, where the heat is converted to this way, right ? This must be done via rectifiers diodes at the output coils, right ? Do you really believe heat flows so fast, that you can switch it at 10 kHz ? Have you done any experiments so far with it ? Do you know, where one could get this manganese-tin allow ? Is it expensive ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 17:11:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA22765; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:10:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:10:31 -0700 Message-ID: <371D163B.1E493A5C@microtec.net> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:05:22 -0400 From: patrick tremblay X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: JOE, A BIG FRAUD ?? References: <199904191039.MAA21010@poindexter.wirehub.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Nhtes3.0.cZ5.tTH7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10027 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Laugh as much as you want, after all, if I aint worth a laughter, I aint worth much. I personnaly HOPE that Joe's technology works some day. But all it has been last 30 years is talk..talk...talk. I think I'll just shut up and do my own experiments regardless of Joe. and to finish it all, I approve Norm Biss, I share his opinion. Aris wrote: > > > Finally, I think you must consider the character of the individual > > > making claims for a device, which > > > for the last 20 years, he has been saying will be on sale in a few > > > months. > > > > Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha. > > I always like laughing people...(lolololol).. > > > > Now I realize that some > > > of the most inventive geniuses in recorded history had some pretty > > > bizarre quirks in their makeup. > > > I personally do NOT have any respect for an individual who would marry > > > an 8-year-old girl, and > > > then say the reason for it was because GOD told him to do it. > > > > Right On, That goes double for me. This is what you can call an > > Illuminated lunatic. Did Joe marry an 8 year old ? > > If so is this legal nowadays in de states?? Are there any single 8 year > female on the list??? > > > People, let me tell you this. Two years ago Joe asked for 50 Grands to > > secure the distribution rights and ship the first motor generator that > > is 10kW OVERNIGHT. Now, How many "investors" received their motor yet ? > > None, and that's 2 YEARS AGO. > > Perhaps a shipment problem, it happens to my all the time... Well here my > five cents again, you should go for BBB... These guys find out if somebody > is a reliable business partner, your dad should know that.... > > > Now Joe is asking for 3,500 $ and you have to wait till june and I > > suppose in June he will say "wait a few months later". :-) Ha Ha Ha Ha > > Ha. > > I suppose you really like it, you are having lot's of fun...:-)))).. > > > 2 YEARS AGO, I phoned Joe about the $50,000 investment and Joe was only > > interested by the money. I was 18 years old and wanted only information > > about his device and this is the good one, do you know what Joe told me: > > > > "I can tell by your voice that you don't have the money" > > Well I can see it at your info, I wouldn't do business to with an 18 year > old boy... > > > However, and that's the GOOD ONE, I happen to know a generators > > distributor that would have been VERY interested in starting this with > > me, also my father is a businesman. > > Well if both are interested they can call theirselves, I suppose they know > how > to dial... > > > So I asked Joe if he had documentary information on his > > "motor/generators" so I can show interested parties. > > > > Joe Replied: > > > > "I can tell by your voice that you don't have the money, too many people > > are blowing smoke, so I am not going to send you anything" > > Are you blowing smoke??? > > > So I won't put my or anybody's money in Joe's venture. Any company ready > > and urged to do business would send corporate information about their > > products. So I don't trust Joe anymore. > > So you don't trust any stubborn farmer anymore?? I don't know Joe but after > al > these stories I would like to meet him... Even only for the great jokes he > makes > with business people I DON'T trust cause the only thing they do is thinking > about money... > > BTW do you have money cause I think I have a really good investment which > might attrack your interest...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA > > I can tell it by your voice...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA > > Regards, > > Aris (who always likes a good laughter) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 19:52:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA04298; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:51:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:51:23 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <482b0f0e.244e95a6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:44:54 EDT Subject: Re: kof Warning to all women. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: MKSBoysal@aol.com To: undisclosed-recipients:; Resent-Message-ID: <"_mBs_1.0.-21.hqJ7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10028 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com << Sender: owner-kof@news.wtp.net Reply-to: kof@news.wtp.net To: dfoglema@uoguelph.ca (Dianne Fogleman), straussa@netscape.net (Andrew Strauss), evewahn@INTERLOG.COM (Eve Wahn), sevraypr@sover.net (Gene and Joanne O'Neil), guy@golden.net (Guy & Deb Proulx), murrayellison@HOTMAIL.COM (Murray and Mary Ellison), jbentley@firstassociates.com (Joanne Bentley), jibebishop@yahoo.com (Joyce Bishop), Angel@purelove.net (Sandi Lee), kof@wtpdev1.wtp.net (KOF Community) > I will do as instructed and pass this on to all of my friends and guys > who > > have girl friends. > > > > > > >> Subject: FW: Warning to women! > > > >> > > > >> In case your sensitive button hasn't been pushed lately....This > > > >> happened in Columbus: > > > >> > > > >> A woman was shopping at the Tuttle Mall in Columbus. She came out > > > >> to her car and saw she had a flat. She got her jack and spare out > > of > > > >> the trunk. A man in a business suit came up and started to help > her. > > > >> When the tire had been replaced, he asked for a ride to his car on > the > > > >> opposite side of the mall. Feeling uncomfortable about doing > > > >> this, she asked why he was on this side of the mall if his car was > > > >> on the other side. He claimed he had been talking to friends. > > > >> > > > >> Still uncomfortable, she told him that she just remembered > > > >> something she had forgotten to pick up at the mall and she left > > > >> him and went back inside the mall. She reported the incident to > the > > > >> mall security and they went out to her car. The man was nowhere > in > > > >> sight. > > > >> Opening her trunk, she discovered a brief case the man had set > > > >> inside her trunk while helping her with the tire. Inside were > rope > and > > > >> a butcher knife! > > > >> > > > >> When she took the tire to be fixed, the mechanic informed her that > > > >> there was nothing wrong with her tire, that it was flat because > the > > > >> air had been let out of it! > > > >> > > > >> Please be safe and not sorry. Although this happened in Columbus, > it > > > >> could happen anywhere. Just a warning to always be alert. > > > >> > > > >> Pass this along to every woman you have access to. Never let > your > > > >> guard down. > > > >> > > > >> Sometimes that feeling in your gut is the Voice of God!" > > > >> > > > >> Pass this on to all the women you know!!!!! > > > >> > > > >> Pass it on to a few men who would also pass it on to women they > > > >> know as well!!!! > > > >> >> The point is: if you have a question DON"T DO IT what ever might be... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 20:23:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11713; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:22:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:22:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990419233113.00a569e0@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:33:07 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: kof Warning to all women. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"z43q41.0.vs2.GIK7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10029 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You wrote... >The point is: if you have a question DON"T DO IT what ever might be... So I've posted briefly on cults and their proponents, perhaps the time has come for a brief exposition on the meme. A meme is a mind virus, it's carrier the ebb and flow of information on networks such as this and others. At first such technology was limited to the rich and powerful, our world religions being excellent examples of the construction of successful memes. Now this fellow Gutenberg comes along, well howdy there, let's spread that bible 'round and 'round... Mostly the flow's been in one direction, the great media machine driving vast oceans of unconcious desire on blank slates and willing slaves. Now WE have the means to control such power, the previous post being a poor example. Want better? Check out this link, by the Master http://www.uni-koeln.de/themen/cmc/text/burroughs.70.txt Warning to all: One can alway recognize the truth, it's that which people pay the least attention to. K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 20 21:06:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24167; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:05:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:05:22 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <66be7eda.244ea83f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:04:15 EDT Subject: Re: Rail Guns, Hover train brakes (was: Re: Lorentz force) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Reply-To: Keasy@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"yE2GB.0.Rv5.1wK7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10030 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 4/20/99 4:33:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pop79@altavista.net writes: << Well I dont know what rail guns are, I've heard of a rail gun in Quake 2. Anyone seen the 550Km/h hover trains in Japan 8-) I read in a 1981 book on trains, that when they started developing these hover trains, they were designing the brakes, which were also frictionless...a horse shoe type electromagnet around an aluminium plate causes a braking action when you try to pull the plate out of the magnet...so they'll do that with the 'track'. What's the go here? Aluminium isnt ferrous eh? How does that work? And might it have anything to do with 'rail guns' :) >> >From your description it sounds like eddy current braking. Any time you move a conductor (and it need not be magnetic) into a magnetic field there are currents generated in the conductor which interact with the field so that there is a resultant force on the conductor which opposes its movement into the field. If you remove it the force opposes its removal. In fact, you need not be moving the conductor into or out of the field -- just moving the conductor in a field will cause forces opposing the movement. I don't think a rail gun uses any eddy current effect, although I'm certainly not a rail gun expert . Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 04:05:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA30264; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:03:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:03:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:02:49 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: Stefan Hartmann cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Cornwall RO Subject: Re: Thermoelectric convertors In-Reply-To: <371D11E9.D2A21DE1@harti.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kq1KG2.0.jO7.c1R7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10032 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com All the issues Stefan raised, I'll get back on tonight. Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 04:06:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA29933; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:01:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:01:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:01:16 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: Stefan Hartmann cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Cornwall RO Subject: Re: Thermoelectric convertors In-Reply-To: <371D11E9.D2A21DE1@harti.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Wyfj_2.0.cJ7.D0R7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10031 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Stefan, Thanks for your response. I'm at work at the moment and I'll get back later from home when. George Holtz is thinking too asend you both information tonightas I could only prepare a snippet before I had to go into work. I think its too big to post to these list servers so I'll have to set up a webpage (by weekend) but for now I'll snd of MIME attachment. Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 05:18:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA18511; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:16:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:16:41 -0700 Message-ID: <371DC208.C7CA7DF6@harti.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:18:16 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cornwall RO CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thermoelectric convertors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l7lVb2.0._W4.d6S7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10033 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Cornwall RO wrote: > > Hello Stefan, > > Thanks for your response. I'm at work at the moment and I'll get back > later from home when. George Holtz is thinking too asend you both > information tonightas I could only prepare a snippet before I had to go > into work. I think its too big to post to these list servers so I'll have > to set up a webpage (by weekend) but for now I'll snd of MIME attachment. > Remi. Okay, let me know any further info, when you are at home. Thanks in advance. regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 09:16:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08644; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:14:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:14:24 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:19:23 +0200 Message-Id: <199904211619.SAA18540@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: Thermoelectric convertors Resent-Message-ID: <"6chfB3.0.k62.WbV7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10034 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 23:39 19.04.1999 +0100, freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Remi Cornwall)wrote: >All, > >A document with the thermodynamic cycle. > >Informed comments most appreciated ! Hi Remi ! I read your post containing your idea and could neither reject neither accept it because not all relevant informations are given. Wherefrom do you have your material model description, i.e. the curves in your first diagram which plots magnetisation versus ( temperature; H-field): Do you have this from experimental data ?? If yes, then please give the references ! Or, are these lines an ad hoc drawing which should characterize the material behaviour ?? The problem with your first diagram is that the Curie point for your model substance depends not only from temperature but as well from the magnetic field. Therefore, the standard terminology of ferromagnetism does not fit , the material is not completely standard and therefore "strange". You start in the field in the paramagnetic state( point 1, fig.1) (dI/dT<0) . You come to the ferromagnetic state by adiabatic cooling down (points 2) and in the end after equilibrating temperature dependences you are quite exactly in the critical point at environment temperature and zero field (point 3). It is clear, in fantasy it is possible to imagine numbers of strange materials which perform overunity cycles. Therefore, the question should be answered experimentally or theoretically (in terms of the terminology of phase transitions) , whether such strange material exist. Sincerely Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 11:09:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA19685; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:07:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:07:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990421094712.23d70dd2@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:47:12 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force in hydrolysis + motor In-Reply-To: <924494753.15606.812@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"bOprv.0.Up4.NFX7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10035 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Harvey and all, At 09:05 PM 4/18/99 PDT, you wrote: >Lorentz force reaction in electrolysis at >http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/lfg.htm > >A "fluid" demonstration of Lorentz force, said by some to be the "secret" to >exotic forms of propulsion, can be seen by filling a cylindrical metal can >with water (to which a small amount of acid has been added to enhance >conduction of electricity), connecting that can to a negative battery >terminal, and inserting a positive-connected, rod-shaped terminal into the >center of the water in the can (without shorting out the two terminals). >This cylindrical capacitor, filled with liquid electrolyte, is then placed >within the field of a stack of ring magnets. > I tried this with baking soda dissolved in water, and could see no Lorentz effect. I measured a current about 0.6 Amps at 12 Volts. It may have been there as a slight force, but was overwhelmed by the stirring by all the gas bubbles generated and the surface tension of the foam formed on top (The anode was being dissolved). Since I now have a high current source, I tried a similar magnetic motor like described on Stefan Hartmann's page. I mounted 2 Neodym magnets on a form with a hole on the center for the high current DC wire. The magnet poles were to be in the tangential direction as the field "circulating" around the wire. N S =---o---= S N The o is where the wire goes, in/out of the screen, also it is the rotating bearing. I thought it might rotate, even guessed the power may come from the power supply supplying current against the back EMF generated. Yes it's a unusual configuration with the magnets rotating through the 1 turn loop formed by the wire and power supply connections. I found with current, >100A flowing in one direction, this magnet armature aligned horizontally as shown, and aligned vertically with the current switched. Guessed there must be a magnetic interaction with the wires connecting to the center wire. (They were running left to the power supply). Using a longer center wire, I could move the armature to either end to see the horizontal/vertical alignment, or to the center to minimize it. There was no net torque on the armature, so I was wrong. I know this isn't exactly the same as Faraday's experiment where he got a current (DC of course from a Volta pile) carrying wire to circulate around a magnet or the magnet to circulate around the wire. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 12:08:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA06070; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:06:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:06:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990421203907.0098f100@mail.bahnhof.se> X-Sender: david@mail.bahnhof.se X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:39:07 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: David Jonsson Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? In-Reply-To: <007501be8a46$93426b60$731a0fcb@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"St_vG2.0.lU1.d6Y7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10036 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 18:55 1999-04-19 +0930, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- > >>I believe the system to disperse the jet exhaust more efficiently was to >>charge the leading edge of the wing with a high negative voltage, and >charge >>the jet exhaust with a positive charge. Wouldn't that make the exhaust attractive to the front? Maybe the explanation of all this is that the B-2 uses high voltage for someting else. In the book Electrogravitics Systems http://www.books.com/scripts/view.exe?sid~7sRyoREtc2PgBb7/isbn~0964107007 Paul LaViolette says that it uses this for propulsion and Northrup Grumman who builds the plane have performed research in how to reduce air drag with high voltage. Se also http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/B2proj.htm I have heard from an american defense contractor that B-2 can fly Mach 25. Northrop Grumman says on their web http://www.nortgrum.com/ that they are air-cranking the planes that leave for Serbia. On a now removed page on their web they said they had global coverage from only 3 bases in the world. David From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 12:17:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07960; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:11:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:11:09 -0700 From: "Sergei M.Godin" To: "Stefan Hartmann" Cc: , "Jean-Louis Naudin" , Subject: Re: Did you see this ?[Fwd: Thermoelectric convertors] Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:06:58 +0400 Message-ID: <01be8c2a$210a70c0$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"dhdFT.0.Gy1.CBY7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10037 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan, it's not the same concept as Zaev's converter! In the genuine Zaev's converter the saturation of the core (permalloy) is not used, the working point is in the beginning of a curve of magnetization. I have shown Nikolai this message. He liked idea uses of a set of resonant contours. Regards, Sergei Godin >Sergey, is this the same concept as the ZAEV magnet converter ? > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 13:22:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29059; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:18:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:18:48 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:23:48 +0200 Message-Id: <199904212023.WAA23545@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? Resent-Message-ID: <"VXzcC.0.u57.eAZ7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10038 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Maybe the explanation of all this is that the B-2 uses high voltage for >someting else. In the book Electrogravitics Systems >http://www.books.com/scripts/view.exe?sid~7sRyoREtc2PgBb7/isbn~0964107007 >Paul LaViolette says that it uses this for propulsion and Northrup Grumman >who builds the plane have performed research in how to reduce air drag with >high voltage. Se also >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/B2proj.htm >I have heard from an american defense contractor that B-2 can fly Mach 25. > I think the last "information" is nonsense ! Mach 25 are 30000 km/h. 28440 km/h is enough for a satellite to stay in the orbit. I read ( I do not know whether the data are correct) that the B2 needed 15 hour from America to Yugoslavia and back again. Therefrom, you can conclude on a velocity comparable to a normal subsonic plane as it is as well the 117 stealth bomber. Sincerly Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 13:32:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA32649; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:30:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:30:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990421223015.0098a5c0@mail.bahnhof.se> X-Sender: david@mail.bahnhof.se X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:30:15 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: David Jonsson Subject: Re: The TR-3B Triangular Anti-Gravity Craft In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2bmJW.0.2-7.ELZ7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10039 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 17:29 1999-03-08 -0800, you wrote: > >I also have a problem with only the 89% weight (mass) reduction - why not 100% - Remember that inertia is reduced by the same factor. At 100% inertia reduction the craft could very easily be dissplaced. Kick the device and it will leave the solar system. I have problems understanding this rotating superconductor devices. There is an explanation on http://www.gravity.org/ that I havent bothered to read. Maybe someone can post a summary? http:/www.thewordistruth.com/ also has someting on rotating superconductors but I haven't understood that either. David From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 13:50:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23851; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990421223557.008c4300@mail.bahnhof.se> X-Sender: david@mail.bahnhof.se X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:35:57 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: David Jonsson Subject: Re: US B2 bomber plane use non chemical fuel/energy ? In-Reply-To: <199904212023.WAA23545@ns.b.vossnet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3djcK3.0.aq5.FWZ7t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10040 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I forgot to add this email. David ----------------------------------------- From: "Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D." To: "UFOTruth list" Cc: "Jim Wray, Ph.D." Subject: antigrav Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:38:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Rcpt-To: pgb@padrak.com March 26,1999, Brooklyn, NY Alex Cavallari, xelaufo@aol.com reported: While watching an early morning TV news show, "Good Day NY" on FOX channel 5 in NY at about 8:12 - 8:14 AM est on 3-26-1999 there was a segment on called "Crisis in Kosovo." The guest for this segment was a Mr. Cliff Bragdon, he claims to be a military and defense expert, while being questioned on the aircraft and technology being used by the USA military in Kosovo, Mr. Cliff Bragdon stated that the Stealth B2 Bomber "uses antigravity technology". thank you, Alex Cavallar UFOTruth folks, Compare my report from last year on this subject: B-2 Stealth bomber as antigravity craft by Richard Boylan, Ph.D. Date: 09/20/97 Retired Air Force Colonel Donald Ware has passed on to me information from a three-star general he knows who revealed to him in July that "the new Lockheed-Martin space shuttle [National Space Plane] and the B-2 [Stealth bomber] both have electro-gravitic systems on board;" and that " this explains why our 21 Northrup B-2s cost about a billion dollars each." Thus, after taking off conventionally, the B-2 can switch to antigravity mode, and, I have heard, fly around the world without refueling. I have also heard, and deduced for myself after inspecting a Stealth F-117A fighter at Beale Air Force Base, that the F-117A also has hybrid propulsion and lift technologies, utilizing conventional thrust for public take-offs and landings, but switching to antigravity mode for extended cruising range, for lightning-fast maneuverability, and for shrouding the airframe in invisibility (by having its local counter-gravity field bend light around the airframe). The notorious extremely-unstable lift and forward-motion of the F-117A is merely temporary, until it moves into antigravity mode, where independent field propulsion provides stability. (Unfortunately for the pilot who went down in an air show over Maryland, his Stealth fighter was in conventional jet- thrust mode at the time.) Further commentary, revealing that the government eventually plans to release antigravity technology publicly, is provided by Colonel Ware. "Apparently this highly controlled military program was used to gain experience with 4th-density technology that may transform civil aviation after all national leaders choose peace." In a perhaps unrelated aside, Colonel Ware stated that his two brothers are on a list to receive free electricity machines by United Community Services of America (UCSA) in New Jersey. "They [UCSA] claim to have produced 50,000 machines and are preparing to install them on selected homes. They say they will provide free electricity to the home owner and sell the excess power to the power company." Col. Ware adds cryptically, "I wonder if this environmentally-friendly technology is associated in any way with alien liaison." Richard Boylan, Ph.D. Richard Boylan, Ph.D. 2826 O Street, Suite 2, Sacramento, CA 95816, USA. (916) 455-0120 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 14:34:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA32709; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:32:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:32:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:32:49 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Weird Transformer Effects Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ymAxx.0.--7.AGa7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10041 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com All, One you can try at home easily and it's paradoxical and bizarre! I have a toroidal transformer with a primary and secondary. Turns ratio is irrelevant but primary is 6V to secondary 240V (ie 1:40). Now Imagine this setup (this is done with relays so every goes back to high impedance, o/c): Primary to a voltage source: ________ | | | | | | --------- ------------------------- Secondary shorted by relay: ____________________ | | | | | | ------------- ------------------------- Assume that on primary side we have given enough time for transients to die away so that steady current in primary. We then short the secondary. FACT when we do this, no effect on primary side (as you'd expect). WITH SECONDARY STILL SHORTED. Disconnect primary current. What happens? You'd expect to see a back-emf in the primary? Hang on flux links the secondary too, so you'd see one there too, right? FACT: nothing!! So what happens when you eventually unshort the secondary (the primary is o/c)? (Eventually could mean seconds, days, weeks, months, years ...) FACT: You see a back emf in the primary!! (Finally!) A Quick Thought: 1) IF we did see a back emf when we o/c the primary we could violate c-of-e because we flux link two coils. Imagine the primary(s) is an LC tank circuit setup to give us the pulse. We then un o/c our secondary when the current in the primary is steady and pick up that change in flux when we o/c the primary. NATURE won't let us do that. 2) If when we unshorted the secondary we saw no back emf in the primary, where did our electrical work go in setting up the primary current??? It can't have disappeared - another violation of c-of-e. 3) Okay, we saw a back emf. That implies a flux was present => a current was flowing. Hang on, the primary is open circuit!!! The secondary is shorted, there must be current in the secondary BUT the secondary is totally passive (no current sources). WHAT THE HELL KEEPS THE CURRENT GOING! (especially if we unshort days after!) If there is no current, there is no magnetic field. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What generated our back emf? I've been talking to some engineer freinds of mine - there is some stress in space apart from the usual em fields. Please, can we have an answer. Can anybody make use of this phenomenom. This is so easy to replicate. Remi Cornwall. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 15:10:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA10572; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:57:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:57:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:57:39 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thermoelectric convertors In-Reply-To: <199904211619.SAA18540@ns.b.vossnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZPpen1.0.za2.Rda7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10042 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dieter, I'll get back to you, Stefan and George Holtz with my thoughts. Now it is a patent spec and as such for you eyes only until I reword it. i understand that trained lawyers can pull this kind of information apart. My motive: If there is any merit, a patent can prevent undesirables from monopolising, stifling etc research. Ask say people who come into contact with me and they'll tell you I'm sincere. If there is merit in this, we share control and direct its growth. I'm in software, is there a way of LINUX-like freeware philosophy. We'd like to keep the core research with the founders and not have big interests come in, take over, spoil, corrupt the vision. So for now. Direct email to Dieter, Stefan and George because I've dealt with them in the past. hopefully by weekend I'll have rewritten and put up a webpage. I think the biggest question is, 'wouldn't this be slow?' No, heat transfer doesn't have to be slow, just make things small - powder, suspension instead of a slab of material. Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 15:14:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09073; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:10:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:07:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Int'l Symposium on Ball Lightning '99 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-6R_A3.0.cD2.Upa7t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10043 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L http://home.wxs.nl/~icblsec SIXTH INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON BALL LIGHTNING 23-25 AUGUST 1999 IN UIA, UNIVERSITY OF ANTWERP, ANTWERP, BELGIUM Chair: dr. Geert C. Dijkhuis Co-chair: prof. Dirk K. Callebaut PRELIMINARY PROGRAM SESSIONS: Data from ball lightning observation Laboratory experiments with fireballs Theory of ball lightning Video's (PAL/SECAM) Prospective authors are requested to submit a 300 - 350 word abstract for each presentation. The authors of the abstracts which we selected will be required to submit camera-ready full papers (6 pages or less). DEADLINES: ABSTRACTS MARCH 1, 1999 CAMERA-READY FULL PAPERS JULY 1, 1999 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 18:41:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA24380; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:39:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:39:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990422093900.00e7ba00@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:39:00 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Weird Transformer Effects In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"l3IFw1.0.my5.ssd7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10044 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Remi wrote: >I have a toroidal transformer with a primary and secondary. Turns ratio is >irrelevant but primary is 6V to secondary 240V (ie 1:40). Now Imagine this >setup (this is done with relays so every goes back to high impedance, >o/c): > >Primary to a voltage source: > ________ > | | > | | > | | >--------- ------------------------- > >Secondary shorted by relay: > ____________________ > | | > | | > | | >------------- ------------------------- > >Assume that on primary side we have given enough time for transients to >die away so that steady current in primary. We then short the secondary. >FACT when we do this, no effect on primary side (as you'd expect). Also no effect on the secondary side. ie if the primary transients have completely died away then no current will start to flow when you short the secondary). A transformer only generates a voltage (emf) when the magnetic flux in the core is changing. (and there is really no difference between a "back emf" and a normal emf - they are both simply due to the rate of change of flux linked by the windings). >WITH SECONDARY STILL SHORTED. Disconnect primary current. What happens? >You'd expect to see a back-emf in the primary? Hang on flux links the >secondary too, so you'd see one there too, right? FACT: nothing!! You should expect no (very little) back-emf in the primary because any emf is due to rate of change of magnetic flux and this effect is being shorted out by the secondary which keeps the magnetic flux from changing quickly. You DO expect a current to suddenly appear in the secondary however - it will be 1/40th of the steady state current that was in the primary. This sudden step in secondary current is what keeps the magnetic flux from changing. As long as this current continues to flow (it will eventually die away due to resistive losses), then whenever it is stopped suddenly there will be a sudden emf appearing at BOTH the secondary (across the relay breaking the current flow) and the accross the primary (in the ratio of 40 to 1). This is due to the rate of change (collapse) of the flux in the core when the current stops. So this effect that you are seeing is pretty much expected. >So what happens when you eventually unshort the secondary (the primary is >o/c)? (Eventually could mean seconds, days, weeks, months, years ...) >FACT: You see a back emf in the primary!! (Finally!) I am confident that the "days, weeks, months ..." are an exaggeration! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 22:42:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA32172; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:39:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:39:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990421205044.377fd1b8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:50:44 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force in hydrolysis + motor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SKKcE.0.bs7.EOh7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10045 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: Dave Dameron >Subject: Re: Lorentz force in hydrolysis + motor >In-Reply-To: <924494753.15606.812@excite.com> > I wrote: >Since I now have a high current source, I tried a similar magnetic motor like described on Stefan Hartmann's page. I mounted 2 Neodym magnets on a form with a hole on the center for the high current DC wire. The magnet poles were to be in the tangential direction as the field "circulating" around the wire. > > N S > =---o---= > S N It is easy to demonstrate that this doesn't work. I did this later and should have done it first. Just run enough current through a (copper) wire so a magnet will stick to it. The magnet will align with the circumferental field lines, but not see any torque. o <-wire N|S It has a radial force inward as that is the direction of the gradient of the B field strength. I will try Faraday's rotating experiment soon. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 23:18:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA12720; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:16:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:16:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: paddington.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:16:51 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@paddington To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Weird Transformer Effects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"syxcQ3.0.f63.Pxh7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10046 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sorry, duh!, of course there is a current in the secondary! A current is induced, its just that the time constant is so long L/R. Amazing what a bit of sleep can do. Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 21 23:30:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA18051; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:28:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:28:59 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Rail Guns, Hover train brakes (was: Re: Lorentz force) Message-Id: <924762498.22319.660@excite.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:28:18 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.40 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"aR0q-2.0.yP4.h6i7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10047 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:02:45 -0500, Joe Portman wrote: > Aluminum is not ferrous, but it is slightly magnetic....strange but true. > Joe Portman > ========== > It is only the interaction between a MOVING magnetic field that causes eddy currents to form on the aluminum that produces a madnetic field that will always oppose the action that caused it by Lenz Law HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 22 07:43:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA32083; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:40:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:40:35 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:39:35 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: David Jonsson Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: United Community Services of America in NJ In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990421223557.008c4300@mail.bahnhof.se> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Fi3Xp3.0.9r7.ZJp7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10048 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com David or anyone: Has anyone been in touch with the above to verify the reality of the statement below? Jorg Ostrowski ______________________________________________________________________ you said: In a perhaps unrelated aside, Colonel Ware stated that his two brothers are on a list to receive free electricity machines by United Community Services of America (UCSA) in New Jersey. "They [UCSA] claim to have produced 50,000 machines and are preparing to install them on selected homes. They say they will provide free electricity to the home owner and sell the excess power to the power company." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 22 11:07:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00332; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:03:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:03:51 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:02:39 -0400 Subject: Re: United Community Services of America in NJ Message-ID: <19990422.140250.272.5.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-7,9-25 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"VtcAf.0.r4.6Is7t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10049 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I did an internet search and found their web site at www.ucsofa.com it looks like they are selling dealerships. They offer an info kit you can order. Haven't done so myself though. They refer to Dennis Lee, but I don't know if it is the same one who posts on this list. Is that you Dennis, or another? Dave T. On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:39:35 -0600 (MDT) "Jorg D. Ostrowski" writes: > > David or anyone: Has anyone been in touch with the above to verify > the > reality of the statement below? Jorg Ostrowski > ______________________________________________________________________ > you said: > In a perhaps unrelated aside, Colonel Ware stated that his two > brothers are on a list to receive free electricity machines by > United > Community Services of America (UCSA) in New Jersey. "They [UCSA] > claim > to have produced 50,000 machines and are preparing to install them > on > selected homes. They say they will provide free electricity to the > home owner and sell the excess power to the power company." > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 22 19:49:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07104; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:44:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lorentz force in hydrolysis + motor Message-Id: <924835376.7111.511@excite.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:42:56 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.43 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"SRhl52.0.vk1.Twz7t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10050 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:50:44, Dave Dameron wrote: > >From: Dave Dameron > >Subject: Re: Lorentz force in hydrolysis + motor > >In-Reply-To: <924494753.15606.812@excite.com> > > > I wrote: > > >Since I now have a high current source, I tried a similar magnetic motor > like described on Stefan Hartmann's page. I mounted 2 Neodym magnets on a > form with a hole on the center for the high current DC wire. The magnet > poles were to be in the tangential direction as the field "circulating" > around the wire. They should not be tangential. The current direction should be the same as the field lines. The current should be passed through this direction STRAIGHT THRU THE NIB MAGNET ITSELF AND MECHANISMS TO OBSERVE THE SPIN OF THE MAGNET ITSELF BE NOTED. THIS DICTATES REVISING THE EXPERIMENT TO ACCOMMODATE THIS IDEA. There may be disagreement here, but that was the previous results seen years ago in my experimentation. In that case a NIB was floated on mercury AND when a 12 volt battery discharged from the center of the disc it underwent rapid rotation.Whether the current proceeded then outwards from the center to produce this rotation seems to be thew sensible explanation. I noticed the last time this was brought up; Bill Beatty suggested that the faraday homopolar effect would detail the magnet being insulated from the mercury... It is extremely hard to get a conductor wire to rotate around a neodymium magnet passing a DC current to show the motor effect, in contrast to the reverse possibility which is even harder to show; that of a magnet rotating around a stabilised probe going into the mercury. In both cases the wire will want to stick to the magnet. The amount of current has to be regulated in order to show these special effects... What I had posted was a new condition whereby it was accidentally observed that the very best effect is obtained when the current is past DIRECTLY through the poles of the magnet, however this experiment never resolved exactly where the exit point has to be to make this rotation, only that it was observed as an effect that may have been previously ignored or past over... HDN > > N S > > =---o---= > > S N > > It is easy to demonstrate that this doesn't work. I did this later and > should have done it first. Just run enough current through a (copper) wire > so a magnet will stick to it. The magnet will align with the circumferental > field lines, but not see any torque. > o <-wire > N|S > It has a radial force inward as that is the direction of the gradient of > the B field strength. > > I will try Faraday's rotating experiment soon. > -Dave > > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 22 22:28:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA03541; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:25:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:25:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:23:59 -0400 From: Ralph E Griffin Subject: Re: Lorentz force Sender: Ralph E Griffin To: Free Energy List Message-ID: <199904230124_MC2-7318-F54D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA03520 Resent-Message-ID: <"A-lb8.0.Et.OH08t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10051 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave Dameron wrote: >I am also trying annealed steel wire, as well as a copper wire. Both ring >with a current pulse, but I am not confident on which direction they move >without an adequate sensor. I have tried other wires as levers, damped >with added mass as a first quick and dirty test. Hi Dave, Try repeatedly generating the current pulse. Set the scope trigger from the same circuit that is driving the current pulse generator. Set the scope to display the signal displayed by the sensor. That should pretty well show which way the wire starts moving at the beginning of the pulse provided that you have a good sensor (monotonic response, no high Q resonance of its own, and not directly affected by the magnetic or electric fields of the wire being tested). How about a small piece of paper attached to the wire. A beam of light is half blocked by the paper on the wire. A light sensor detects the amount of light that gets by. When the wire rings, the paper moves with it, and the light sensor picks up the ring signal. >>I don't think the plasma helps the Lorentz force. The force depends only >>on current density and geometry. Oh by the way, make sure that the >>transducer is not affected by the magnetic or electric fields around the >>wire being tested. You need sufficient distance and/or shielding between >>the transducer and the test wire. >> >I think it is a different, pure mechanical force. Especially with the >iron crosspiece, a VERY loud white "explosive" flash is formed at both >rail contacts, one step up from just arcing. >A pit is formed both in the crosspiece and rails, and the crosspiece >jumps off the rails. It may fuse to the rails when it lands again. I meant that the *Lorentz* force depends only on current density and geometry. R.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 22 23:24:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA21000; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:22:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:22:53 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: 3 Methods of High Frequency Resonance Message-Id: <924848540.24092.168@excite.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:22:20 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.43 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"TFuNl.0.z75.y618t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10052 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It is ordinarily assumed that a tesla coil is needed for these effects when in actuality many descriptions exist prior to the days of these things even noted by tesla I would presume. A simple high induction coil containing an air core can be resonated at 60 hz in series resonance. Provided that the input voltage does not pass more current than the gauge of wire allows a high frequency effect can occur simply by allowing an arc gap spacing to exist in parallel to this coil to be resonated at 60 hz. Further down the series circuit a capacitor exists and at 60 hz a voltage rise occurs in which each element is subjected to opposite forming polarities. When the voltage from a coil jumps the arc gap this causes a typical 1/4 wavelength oscillation on the coil but it makes a firecracker sound at the arc gap in which this oscillation occurs as a bang separated by relative silence in comparison to better violet flame oscillations. The second method is to simply place the arc gap across the capacitance in series which yeilds the same result. It is important to realize if both of these methods were simultaneously used it would represent a dead short potential to the voltage source. The 3rd method I have already explained as producing a very satisfactory method of realizing a high frequency method that seems to satisfy as one not producing excessive radio wave bleed-off as the two former methods do. That has been referred as a binary resonant system where the arc gap exists between two mirror image or conjugate opposite series resonant phases. In that condition the oscillations can far exceed the typical values ordinarily achieved in quarter- wave length oscillations. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 23 00:33:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA05969; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:28:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:28:14 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Resonant Recharging Message-Id: <924852470.24767.250@excite.com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:27:50 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.43 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"Mi_ya1.0.AT1.E428t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10053 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A particular effect is used by tesla coilers to increase the voltage output by putting a very small (typically 7 to 35 nanofarads on a neon sign transformer,NST rating 15,000 volts with high impedance secondary) as a shunt or parallel before the tank circuit of the primary and its associated arc gap. Looking at the secondary output without a load a meter can record excess voltage because of the unusual encounter of the ferromagnetic resonance of the secondary having a certain inductive reactance or X(L) balanced by a correspondingly low X(C) or capacitive reactance denoted by the shunt value. It is my understanding of resonance that a well defined definition exists between parallel and series resonance and the difference between them is such that you can either have a voltage rise as shown in this example of no load or a amperage rise in the reverse circumstance when the circuit appears as parallel resonant circuit of maximum impedance. There is absolutely no circuit that will do both, that represents an enigma.A switching oscillation when presented as a BRS as to my experimental mind the best possibility. Yet the opinion left on my message board at http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 contains the thought train that both the resonant rise of voltage AND the resonant rise of amperage are simultaneously exercized in this kind of resonant recharging circuit. This was under the spatial harnessing of resonance category. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 23 08:05:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA14954; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:02:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:02:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990422225429.23bf70da@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:54:29 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force In-Reply-To: <199904230124_MC2-7318-F54D@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lRZYd2.0.Vf3.gj88t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10054 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ralph, At 01:23 AM 4/23/99 -0400, you wrote: >How about a small piece of paper attached to the wire. A beam of light is >half blocked by the paper on the wire. A light sensor detects the amount >of light that gets by. When the wire rings, the paper moves with it, and >the light sensor picks up the ring signal. Thanks. That's exactly what I was thinking of trying, as the paper or cardboard is used to space the sensor from the wire. I think I have some combined slot sensors with a LED and a phototransistor, but haven't tried them yet. ... >I meant that the *Lorentz* force depends only on current density and >geometry. Yes, I agree. From the sound and light levels, the arc blast force sounds energetic enough that it could be having an propulsive effect making the crosspiece jump up off the rails. There is a little vertical component of the current as it flows from the rails to the crosspiece, the Lorentz force from this would also repel it, at least the copper one. This is why I like the attached wire and the ringing measurements. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 23 08:30:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22887; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:27:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:27:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990423065406.223f71fe@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:54:06 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Resonant Recharging In-Reply-To: <924852470.24767.250@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sIKY93.0.Wb5.3598t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10055 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Harvey and all, At 12:27 AM 4/23/99 PDT, you wrote: > A particular effect is used by tesla coilers >to increase the voltage output by putting a very >small (typically 7 to 35 nanofarads on a neon sign >transformer,NST rating 15,000 volts with high impedance >secondary) as a shunt or parallel before the tank circuit >of the primary and its associated arc gap. > Looking at the secondary output without a load a meter >can record excess voltage because of the unusual >encounter of the ferromagnetic resonance of the >secondary having a certain inductive reactance or >X(L) balanced by a correspondingly low X(C) or capacitive >reactance denoted by the shunt value. I think when the arc gap fires, it is now a low impedance path and the resonant circuit is now the capacitor, initially charged, and the T.C. primary. The NST, being much higher impedance, much of it resistive, does not play an large effect during the short resonant discharge. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 23 19:55:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03854; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001201be8dfd$41a7a260$0d707070@eugenebu> From: "Eugene Buchanan" To: References: <3.0.6.16.19990423065406.223f71fe@earthlink.net> Subject: Spiral Dielectric Freezer Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:50:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"veXy63.0.7y.A8J8t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10056 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com New Fast Freezing System IB Industries (Chiba Prefecture, Japan) has developed an instant freezing system said to be capable of maintaining the flavor and freshness of foods that ordinarily freeze poorly. Conventional freezers slowly freeze an object from the outside inward. During this time, quality deterioration, such as cracking and shrinkage, often occur. The new system-to be marketed under the brand name "Spiral Dielectric Freezer"-is said to avoid this by using temperatures of -60°C to rapidly freeze items. The food is first placed within a special magnetic field. A weak current is generated within the food causing the internal water molecules vibrate, preventing them from freezing first. When the food is then subjected to the -60°C, both the principal ingredients and the moisture are frozen simultaneously. According to IB Industries, this prevents drying and deterioration, and preserves both aroma and flavor. The company has until now primarily marketed its freezer equipment to small and mid-size confectionery manufacturers and bakeries. With the tightening of HACCP regulations governing the storage and serving of food, the company believes the product will generate much interest across the food product manufacturing and distribution sector. http://news.foodonline.com/industry-news/19990127-2827.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 24 08:03:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA08385; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:59:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:59:25 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:58:23 EDT Subject: The EHD-Engine v1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"n4oF9.0.w22.DnT8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10057 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear All, I have updated my web site with a very interesting device, the EHD-Engine v1.0. The purpose of the EHD-Engine v1.0 is to generate a thrust along its main axis, it can be used as a thruster for propulsion. The EHD-Engine is a part of my ARDA project and it will be used in my future Advanced EHD Propulsion Aircraft (AEPA). When the High Voltage is applied on the EHD-Engine v1.0, the device moves forward by itself SILENTLY at high speed. The resulting thrust is undeniable (see the video below). The EHD-Engine v1.0 is a simple demonstrator but it shows that the EHD propulsion is now a reality.... You will find all pictures and video about this device at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdev1.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 24 14:11:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12933; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990424211449.01699a6c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 17:14:49 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: For King and Country.. Resent-Message-ID: <"oh09H2.0.w93.6CZ8t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10058 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 07:31 PM 4/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Sorry, boys, I'm no professor. When I speak it is strictly the voice of >experience from a graduate of the school of hard knocks. >I know what empiricism is, but have seldom used it. Instead of starting at >the bottom, I go up in a plane, find what I think is a good starting point, >bail out with no chute, figure out how to land safely, then float down in a >wave of applause from my peers. >Like the man says, the brain is like a Swiss army knife, built to do >anything.....hmmmm....but you must trust it, in spite of criticism by your >peers. This doesn't inspire a whole lot of trust in one's judgement, Joe. We're supposed to be developers and guardians of this new technology with the wisdom to proceed without undue risk or expense to the greater social good. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 24 19:13:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17602; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:11:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:11:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3722708D.D51A0A0@harti.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:31:57 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, Free Energy Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QJsTj1.0.xI4.-cd8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10059 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Dear All, > > I have updated my web site with a very interesting device, the EHD-Engine > v1.0. > The purpose of the EHD-Engine v1.0 is to generate a thrust along its main > axis, it can be used as a thruster for propulsion. The EHD-Engine is a part > of my ARDA project and it will be used in my future Advanced EHD Propulsion > Aircraft (AEPA). > > When the High Voltage is applied on the EHD-Engine v1.0, the device moves > forward by itself SILENTLY at high speed. The resulting thrust is undeniable > (see the video below). > > The EHD-Engine v1.0 is a simple demonstrator but it shows that the EHD > propulsion is now a reality.... > > You will find all pictures and video about this device at : > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdev1.htm > > Best Regards, > > Jean-Louis Naudin > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm Hi JL, looks great ! Maybe you should mount all the EHD and a portable light weight 30 KV transformer connected and lifted by a balloon, so you could use a radio controlled High Voltage source to fly the balloon back and forth ! If you use a big balloon filled with H2 it should carry at least a few pounds of weight, which should be okay to carry a battery with a high voltage transformer and a RF radio controller device to switch on/off the HV ! It would be fun to see this thing fly back and forth and up and down just radiocontrolled ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 00:02:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10797; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:00:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:00:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990425070655.016f5ba4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:06:55 -0400 To: harti@harti.com, JNaudin509@aol.com, Free Energy From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"WBFSe.0.ce2.prh8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10060 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 03:31 AM 4/25/99 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: (snip) >Hi JL, > >looks great ! > >Maybe you should mount all the EHD and a portable light weight 30 KV >transformer connected and lifted by a balloon, so you could use a radio >controlled >High Voltage source to fly the balloon back and forth ! > >If you use a big balloon filled with H2 it should carry at least a few >pounds of weight, >which should be okay to carry a battery with a high voltage transformer >and >a RF radio controller device to switch on/off the HV ! > >It would be fun to see this thing fly back and forth and up and down >just radiocontrolled ! :) You wouldn't believe the amount of research we did on RC helium blimps. Any ideas for a suitable hv power supply? TTBrown flame jet hv generator perhaps? Is aluminium vapor deposited mylar conductive? Electrode propulsion assembly would probably have to exclude the balloon envelope because arcing may puncture material? Would this configuration restrict effects to lower order EM dynamics? What might increase the dimensional complexity of an electrode plasma discharge system I wonder? Hmmm.... Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 02:47:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA28846; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:45:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:45:29 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <67679010.24543e28@aol.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 05:45:12 EDT Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, harti@harti.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA28829 Resent-Message-ID: <"4uCnm1.0.d27.vGk8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10061 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 25/04/99 09:14:08é), atech@ix.netcom.com wrote : > . Any > ideas for a suitable hv power supply? Yes of course, you may use my HV Power supply, my EHD-FS works very well with this... http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/30kvgen.htm You will find all diagrams, pictures, about this device. Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 03:33:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA21676; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:32:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:32:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3722D2DA.40814A66@telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:31:22 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: For King and Country.. References: <1.5.4.32.19990424211449.01699a6c@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7-ds51.0.XI5.Azk8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10062 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com am I missing something? Seems to that the quoted statement made by Joe is plain common sense, its how the real world really operates, give me a fella like Joe to learn from anyday rather than a stodgy professor from an institution of indoctrination. just my two cents.. Dennis C. Lee wrote: > > At 07:31 PM 4/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Sorry, boys, I'm no professor. When I speak it is strictly the voice of > >experience from a graduate of the school of hard knocks. > >I know what empiricism is, but have seldom used it. Instead of starting at > >the bottom, I go up in a plane, find what I think is a good starting point, > >bail out with no chute, figure out how to land safely, then float down in a > >wave of applause from my peers. > >Like the man says, the brain is like a Swiss army knife, built to do > >anything.....hmmmm....but you must trust it, in spite of criticism by your > >peers. > > This doesn't inspire a whole lot of trust in one's judgement, Joe. We're > supposed to be developers and guardians of this new technology with the > wisdom to proceed without undue risk or expense to the greater social good. > > Dennis -- Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale Cooper --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 03:43:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA22886; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:42:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:42:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:42:08 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: Free Energy Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990425070655.016f5ba4@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"R2HaM2.0.Vb5.56l8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10063 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear JL, Try it in a vacuum. Are you sure you aren't getting a kind of corona discharge that sends a streaming wind away? What kind of force does it generate? Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 05:15:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA03921; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 05:10:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 05:10:57 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 08:10:12 EDT Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: R.O.Cornwall@city.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"NY6Rk1.0.2z.GPm8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10064 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 25/04/99 12:48:54, R.O.Cornwall@city.ac.uk wrote : > Dear JL, > > Try it in a vacuum. Are you sure you aren't getting a kind of corona > discharge that sends a streaming wind away? What kind of force does it > generate? > Remi. Dear Remi, I shall be very glad to reconduct my experiment in vacuum... I need to find some external help for this experiment (this is one of my best wish..). About the experimental measurements of the EHD thrust, today, I have added some additional datas in my web site at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdev1.htm More to come soon... Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 05:58:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA10073; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 05:56:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 05:56:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3723144A.8840B3DA@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:10:34 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, R.O.Cornwall@city.ac.uk Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5IDsE.0.lS2.x3n8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10065 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Trying it in vacuum is a good idea if you can find a big enough vacuum chamber. I would like to see a "balloon" placed around the device. The "balloon" is hung *with* the device so it can move with the device. That is, enclose the device so that if any "ion wind" is the cause of motion, the ions will hit the surrounding balloon enclosure and negate this effect from the thrust. Then you will know if there is any new kind of thrust going on. Building a "balloon" structure should be easy enough, sort of like a spherical Chinese lantern which has latitude ribs and a paper covering. Bob Gray JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > On 25/04/99 12:48:54, R.O.Cornwall@city.ac.uk wrote : > > Dear JL, > > > > Try it in a vacuum. Are you sure you aren't getting a kind of corona > > discharge that sends a streaming wind away? What kind of force does it > > generate? > > Remi. > > Dear Remi, > > I shall be very glad to reconduct my experiment in vacuum... I need to find > some external help for this experiment (this is one of my best wish..). > About the experimental measurements of the EHD thrust, today, I have added > some additional datas in my web site at: > > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdev1.htm > > More to come soon... > > Best Regards > > Jean-Louis Naudin > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 06:18:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA14959; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 06:17:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 06:17:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990425132351.01731260@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:23:51 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"FNSG5.0.ef3.RNn8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10066 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 09:10 AM 4/25/99 -0400, you wrote: >Trying it in vacuum is a good idea if you can find a big enough vacuum chamber. > >I would like to see a "balloon" placed around the device. The "balloon" >is hung *with* the device so it can move with the device. That is, enclose the > >device so that if any "ion wind" is the cause of motion, the ions will hit the >surrounding balloon enclosure and negate this effect from the thrust. Then >you will know if there is any new kind of thrust going on. Building a >"balloon" >structure should be easy enough, sort of like a spherical Chinese lantern which >has >latitude ribs and a paper covering. electrodes in the balloon? not bad bob. interesting. does this mean you're going to... nevermind... Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 07:06:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA24133; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:04:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:04:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199904251404.QAA02392@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: For King and Country.. Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:48:49 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i8i0i.0.-u5.44o8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10067 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. > Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, > don't wait for it, just... let it happen. > -- Special Agent Dale Cooper Suggestion: what about Swiss army knife !! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 07:34:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06652; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:32:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:25:59 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 In-Reply-To: <3723144A.8840B3DA@servtech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"VMFlO1.0.qd1.mTo8t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10068 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robert, A brilliant, simple idea. Lateral thinking, that's what I like, saves time and money. The engineer has the ability to see through complicated schemes and equations that 'brainy' theorists often throw up. Three cheers for the scholar/technician that is the engineer! Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 07:35:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06726; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:34:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:33:00 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter Reply-To: Cornwall RO To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"y5yRs.0._e1.eVo8t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10069 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ah, you see, That's what it's all about, the desire to create wealth is not one to lead a shallow, cultureless existence but to promote all that is good in mankind! Hang in there! There is funding, there are philantropists. Networkers are very important. I have utter respect for someone like John Allen and his attempts to put people together and ensure they are working productively. Europe is just across the stream and I think if we can bolster activity in london and the SE (and country wide) then we can help. Paying a visit to discuss ideas, equipment (loan of it) etc. is a brilliant starting point. Let's see if we can get some engineer/scinetists together for a trip say early summer bank hol and arrange a mini conference. Also, why not have a chat with Jon Allen? He has some sound ideas about ethical business and intellectual contracts between researchers along the lines of the LINUX type development scene. It could be a 21 Century way of capitalism. I've seen ultra capitalism when I was in Texas - drive a 4 litre car to go 1/4 mile to the shops, then watch obese texans walk on a walking tread mill in a gym? Strange world! The solution is always pragmatic, ask any engineer. Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 08:49:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22897; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 08:47:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 08:47:38 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:52:31 +0200 Message-Id: <199904251552.RAA04138@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Cc: billb@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"kt3dW2.0.gb5.Qap8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10070 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Jean Louis ! you wrote > >If you want to see a working EHD Flying Saucer... > >Look at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdfsv1.htm > >You will find also all diagrams, pictures, and video for reproducing the >experiment yourself. > I had a look to it ! The experiments are very nice. The idea that the hydrostatic pressure of the surrounding medium drives the thing is a first foggylike approach. In order to make it clear it is necessary to find the way of the coupling of the field to the force. Is it a coupling of the charges in the medium to the field or Is it a coupling of the dipolar character of the medium to the gradient of the field. In principle it is possible to rule it out by experiments . Best regards Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 10:36:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20612; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 10:35:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 10:35:25 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990425174139.00660580@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:41:39 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Resent-Message-ID: <"dcWa11.0.z15.T9r8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10071 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:52 PM 4/25/99 +0200, you wrote: >I had a look to it ! >The experiments are very nice. >The idea that the hydrostatic pressure of the surrounding medium drives the >thing is a first foggylike approach. In order to make it clear it is >necessary to find the way of the coupling of the field to the force. Is it a >coupling of the charges in the medium to the field or >Is it a coupling of the dipolar character of the medium to the gradient of >the field. >In principle it is possible to rule it out by experiments . The process of photophoresis indicates that light travels in spirals. The spiral motion may be caused by a property of the space time fabric. Could the toroidal plasmoids that form on asymmetrical electrode pairs be spinning in such a way that it locks into (grips?) this spiral path property of the space time fabric and pulls itself (or is pulled) by this threaded, gear like mechanism? Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 12:49:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA13240; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904251945.OAA09212@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:43:11 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8yt0r2.0.jE3.f4t8t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10072 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Seems to me that the engine is a high powered ion gun, a common device used in a bell jar for radio freq sputtering. The voltage the eng is using is high enough so that in open air, when the molecules are very excited and making ionized molecules, some molecules are forced out electrically and many are forced out by the generated heat...hot air. Nonetheless, this is a very clean and well built system, and much can be learned from more research. Joe Portman. ============== ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... > Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 12:41 PM > > At 05:52 PM 4/25/99 +0200, you wrote: > > >I had a look to it ! > >The experiments are very nice. > >The idea that the hydrostatic pressure of the surrounding medium drives the > >thing is a first foggylike approach. In order to make it clear it is > >necessary to find the way of the coupling of the field to the force. Is it a > >coupling of the charges in the medium to the field or > >Is it a coupling of the dipolar character of the medium to the gradient of > >the field. > >In principle it is possible to rule it out by experiments . > > > The process of photophoresis indicates that light travels in spirals. The > spiral motion may be caused by a property of the space time fabric. Could > the toroidal plasmoids that form on asymmetrical electrode pairs be spinning > in such a way that it locks into (grips?) this spiral path property of the > space time fabric and pulls itself (or is pulled) by this threaded, gear > like mechanism? > > > Dennis > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 14:13:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22051; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:12:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:12:34 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990425211910.01625cf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:19:10 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... Resent-Message-ID: <"JusGT1.0.SO5.2Lu8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10073 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 02:43 PM 4/25/99 -0500, you wrote: >Seems to me that the engine is a high powered ion gun, a common device used >in a bell jar for radio freq sputtering. An associate is a consultant of semiconductor manufacturing processes. He has mentioned that the level of plasma definition exhibited by our Unified Field Art sculptures is unheard of as far as he has observed in the semiconductor industry. A sputtering process usually requires a more uniform plasma structure. Unified Field Art http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG >The voltage the eng is using is >high enough so that in open air, when the molecules are very excited and >making ionized molecules, some molecules are forced out electrically and >many are forced out by the generated heat...hot air. Asymmetrical electrode pairs that are out of tune will have low order 'ion wind' propulsive characteristics. The reason we originally investigated asymmetrical electrodes under vacuum was the idea that the propulsion effect occurred without (very many?)ionized molecules. > Nonetheless, this is a very clean and well built system, and much can be >learned from more research. We will put more images of our plasma art when the new web page goes online in a few weeks. Professor Felix Ehrenhaft of the Physics Department of Vienna University in 1949 discovered photophoresis. Report in Acta Physica Austriaca (Vol.4, 1950 and Vol.5, 1951). Energies involved in the photophoresis effect is calculated to be 70 times stronger than gravity. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 14:22:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA03734; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:21:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:21:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:21:00 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: help requested on Alfred Hubbard (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mfAlS3.0.3w.CTu8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10074 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Can anyone help out Mr. Paijmans below? He's NOT on freenrg-L, so you'll have to reply directly to th.paijmans@wxs.nl ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:56:00 +0200 From: Theo Paijmans To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: help requested on Alfred Hubbard Dear mr. Beaty, Let me introduce myself. I am the author of: Free Energy Pioneer: John Worrell Keely, (see: www.illuminetpress.com/keelytxt.html) Currently I am looking for xeroxes of newspaper articles on Alfred Hubbard, the Seattle inventor, as well as photo's etc. I do hope you may be able to help me with this one! Kind regards, Theo Paijmans From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 25 22:41:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA30531; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:39:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:39:48 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <29b9dd0a.245555f7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:39:03 EDT Subject: Re: A working EHD Flying Saucer... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: WDBAUER@vossnet.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA30485 Resent-Message-ID: <"cBqhJ2.0.uS7.Zm_8t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10075 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dans un courrier daté du 25/04/99 17:54:30é), WDBAUER@vossnet.de a écrit : > I had a look to it ! > The experiments are very nice. > The idea that the hydrostatic pressure of the surrounding medium drives the > thing is a first foggylike approach. In order to make it clear it is > necessary to find the way of the coupling of the field to the force. Is it a > coupling of the charges in the medium to the field or > Is it a coupling of the dipolar character of the medium to the gradient of > the field. > In principle it is possible to rule it out by experiments . > > Best regards > > Dieter Bauer > Hi Dieter, Hi Dieter, Thanks for your comments, all is now clear in my mind, I fully agree with you, ionic wind and corona effect is only the visible part of the iceberg.... Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 26 11:09:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15225; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:06:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:06:18 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <9f46622e.245604ae@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:04:30 EDT Subject: The EHD-Engine v1.0 - New Important Test To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Bkddo2.0.oj3.PiA9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10076 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear All, Today, I have conducted an important test about my EHD-Engine v1.0 (see below): IMPORTANT EXPERIMENT (04-26-99) ( Ion wind effect testing ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- The EHD-Engine v1.0 has been completly enclosed (the ogival electrode AND the annular ring) with several layers of plastic sheets, so this removes all ion wind effect TEST RESULTS : ----------------------- When the High Voltage is applied to the engine, the device moves forward by itself in spite of the air drag increased by the plastic sheets. This confirms that the ion wind effect is not the cause of the motion. All informations, pictures and videos can be found at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdev1.htm Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 26 13:15:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25082; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:12:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:12:56 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:11:56 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:12:44 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:06:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 In-reply-to: <3723144A.8840B3DA@servtech.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2018ZXWXN4LZY X400-MTS-identifier: [;65116162409991/3692565@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"f33741.0.p76.8ZC9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10077 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jean-Louis, Just stick it in a plastic bag, it will seal in/out any air flow, and it is an insulator. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >Trying it in vacuum is a good idea if you can find a big enough vacuum chamber. >I would like to see a "balloon" placed around the device. The "balloon" >is hung *with* the device so it can move with the device. That is, enclose the >device so that if any "ion wind" is the cause of motion, the ions will hit the >surrounding balloon enclosure and negate this effect from the thrust. Then >you will know if there is any new kind of thrust going on. Building a >"balloon" >structure should be easy enough, sort of like a spherical Chinese lantern which >has latitude ribs and a paper covering. >Bob Gray >JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >> On 25/04/99 12:48:54, R.O.Cornwall@city.ac.uk wrote : >> > Dear JL, >> > >> > Try it in a vacuum. Are you sure you aren't getting a kind of corona >> > discharge that sends a streaming wind away? What kind of force does it >> > generate? >> > Remi. >> >> Dear Remi, >> >> I shall be very glad to reconduct my experiment in vacuum... I need to find >> some external help for this experiment (this is one of my best wish..). >> About the experimental measurements of the EHD thrust, today, I have added >> some additional datas in my web site at: >> >> http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdev1.htm >> >> More to come soon... >> >> Best Regards >> >> Jean-Louis Naudin >> Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com >> Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 26 14:11:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12631; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:04:26 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:57:30 EDT Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: MH2_BRIGGS@odnvms.a1.ohio.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"iGU712.0.F53.OJD9t"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10078 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 26/04/99 22:21:09, MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov wrote : > > Just stick it in a plastic bag, > it will seal in/out any air flow, and it is an insulator. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net Hi Bill Have you read the email that I have sent today, below ? IMPORTANT EXPERIMENT (04-26-99) ( Ion wind effect testing ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- The EHD-Engine v1.0 has been completly enclosed (the ogival electrode AND the annular ring) with several layers of plastic sheets, so this removes all ion wind effect TEST RESULTS : ----------------------- When the High Voltage is applied to the engine, the device moves forward by itself in spite of the air drag increased by the plastic sheets. This confirms that the ion wind effect is not the cause of the motion. All informations, pictures and videos can be found at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdev1.htm Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 26 14:55:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29791; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:54:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:54:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3724E0E6.55379B2A@harti.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:55:50 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, Free Energy Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p1ZET.0.JH7.12E9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10079 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi JL, good result, but maybe you should do the plastic coating a bit more away from the electrodes.. Maybe you should use a bigger plastic bag around it, so also the electric fields will go totally inside the plastic bag and not like now would probably also go outside. Also a quadratic or rectangualr bag would be good. Then you can finally say, if ionic winds don´t play a role. Regards, Stefan. JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > On 26/04/99 22:21:09, MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov wrote : > > > > Just stick it in a plastic bag, > > it will seal in/out any air flow, and it is an insulator. > > > > Bill > > webriggs@concentric.net > > Hi Bill > > Have you read the email that I have sent today, below ? > > IMPORTANT EXPERIMENT (04-26-99) ( Ion wind effect testing ) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > The EHD-Engine v1.0 has been completly enclosed (the ogival electrode AND the > annular ring) with several layers of plastic sheets, so this removes all ion > wind effect > > TEST RESULTS : > ----------------------- > When the High Voltage is applied to the engine, the device moves forward by > itself in spite of the air drag increased by the plastic sheets. This > confirms that the ion wind effect is not the cause of the motion. > > All informations, pictures and videos can be found at : > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdev1.htm > > Best Regards > > Jean-Louis Naudin > Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com > Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 26 15:11:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09399; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:05:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:05:23 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:04:22 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:45:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: The EHD-Engine v1.0 In-reply-to: To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2013ZXWXPTJ1N X400-MTS-identifier: [;22408162409991/3692946@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"kZ9001.0.WI2.XCE9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10080 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jean-Louis, Yes, I did, about a half hour after I sent the "Stick it in a bag" note. How embarrassing. As usual, you are ahead of us all. Good work, Incidentally, if you mounted multiples of these units in series in a sealed nacelle type arrangement, how far apart do they have to be to not interfere with each other. This way you can increase the thrust area, with out increasing the drag surface area. Also, have you measured the thrust force -vs- input energy ratio to get engine efficiency figures yet? Bill webriggs@concentric.net >> >> Just stick it in a plastic bag, >> it will seal in/out any air flow, and it is an insulator. >> >> Bill >> webriggs@concentric.net >Hi Bill >Have you read the email that I have sent today, below ? >IMPORTANT EXPERIMENT (04-26-99) ( Ion wind effect testing ) >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The EHD-Engine v1.0 has been completly enclosed (the ogival electrode AND the >annular ring) with several layers of plastic sheets, so this removes all ion >wind effect >TEST RESULTS : From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 26 20:57:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA10756; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:48:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:48:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990426192510.23576cbc@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:25:10 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Lorentz force tests Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"H0yA52.0.ud2.wDJ9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10081 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all, At 01:23 AM 4/23/99 -0400, Ralph wrote: > >>How about a small piece of paper attached to the wire. A beam of light is >>half blocked by the paper on the wire. A light sensor detects the amount >>of light that gets by. When the wire rings, the paper moves with it, and >>the light sensor picks up the ring signal. I did this experiment today with both a copper and annealed iron (magnetic) wire as the "armature". Both are about No.18 AWG which is about 1mm diameter. The current source was from a 10,000 uF capacitor bank, charged to 150 Volts. A piece of cardboard attached to the wires partially interrupted a beam from a LED to a photocell, which I fed to a scope. The result was both the copper and iron wires moved away from the current source initially. I could see a clear ringing waveform for a few cycles for each case. So my tests agree with Ken Easy's. Something is sufficiently different from Peter Graneau's with a quarter inch carbon steel rod. I thank everyone for their suggestions, etc. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 26 21:16:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19494; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:15:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:15:49 -0700 Message-ID: <37251D75.FB0709D7@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:14:13 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: URGENT - I knew it@!!! References: <3724E0E6.55379B2A@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ked752.0.Sm4.rdJ9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10082 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fianlly it looks like someone has concretely proven my suspicions!!!! http://www.plichta.de/English.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 26 22:58:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13746; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:56:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:56:40 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:55:50 EDT Subject: Please help with electromagnet calculations. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: MKSBoysal@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"-Ntzz.0.hM3.O6L9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10083 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com << Hi everyone, I need to make a 1000 Watt, 120 V, DC electromagnet on a 1 1/2 "diameter, around 3" long soft iron core. Can any one help me out with calculations, about the size and the length of magnetwire I need to use, of this magnet wire please. I tried to find some kind of software that will help me to do this, but I couldn't so any help will be greatly appreciated. Further more, if you interested the nature of my research? Gladly share it with you also. Thank you in advance... Mehmet.>> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 26 23:58:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA32338; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:56:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:56:30 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:55:33 EDT Subject: The EHD-Engine v1.0 - Air Bag - Test run 2 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: hheffner@mtaonline.net, squires@synopsys.com, antigrav@ihug.co.nz, harti@harti.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"oI8lR3.0.5v7.T-L9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10084 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear All, Test RUN 2 (04-27-99) : The EHD-Engine v1.0 has been enclosed in a large plastic bag, so all parasitic ion wind effects are kept inside the bag, by this mean all eventual motion generated by the ion wind is not possible. TEST RESULTS : When the High Voltage is applied to the engine, the device moves forward by itself in spite of the air drag increased by the large plastic bag. This new test confirms again that the ion wind effect is not the cause of the motion. All informations, pictures and videos can be found at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ehdev1iw.htm Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 06:46:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32104; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:45:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:45:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:45:35 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: monthly logs, Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"O91Oi3.0.Xr7.8-R9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10085 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello, what's the webpage for the montly logs on vortex-l and freenrg? www.eskimo.com/~billb then what? Thanks, remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 09:44:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20370; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:42:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:42:15 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990427164754.0170b1b4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:47:54 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: PBS Frontline - The Dustbowl Resent-Message-ID: <"0jsCz1.0.A-4.dZU9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10086 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com PBS Frontline show about the Dustbowl aired yesterday. Excess plowing of too much land was sited as the cause of the Dustbowl. This is consistant with Viktor Schauberger's theory of the 'Water Cycle'. Off to London, be back in a week. Dennis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 10:40:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13467; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:38:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:38:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199904271738.TAA28410@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Political-environment... Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:39:18 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WLlD01.0.KI3.SOV9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10087 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear all, Between the media hype some good news... Yesterday, on national television, I saw our presidents together... President Clinton was very intersted in President's Kok polder-policy, and I can agree we dutch do it pretty well... Of course not perfect but very well... Science and politics are very connected, in Holland we don't have this conspiracy thing, so I think it has something to do with the american "government-style"... I am not as experienced as many other on this list and so my question is: "what would be a political good science environment?" Regards, Aris... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 11:15:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23992; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:09:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:09:43 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Please help with electromagnet calculations. Message-Id: <925236545.20527.115@excite.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:09:05 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"jssKl2.0.ks5.crV9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10088 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:55:50 EDT, MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote: > << Hi everyone, > I need to make a 1000 Watt, 120 V, DC electromagnet > on a 1 1/2 "diameter, around 3" long soft iron core. Can any one help me out > with calculations, about the size and the length of magnetwire I need to use, > of this magnet wire please. > > I tried to find some kind of software that will help me to do this, but I > couldn't > so any help will be greatly appreciated. Hmm.. Never made an electromagnet but will venture some thoughts. There is a thing called saturation of a magnetic substance. To attempt to input 1000 watts in an electromagnet of this size might be beyond its saturation point which means that any additional magnemotive force (mmf expressed in ampere-turns in English units)will not significantly increase its field intensity as noted by H being amp-turns/in. (in. being the length of the cylinder) But I have just contradicted myself here: if mmf is in amps*turns and H is amp*turns/in then as the mmf rises H must denote a corresponding linear rise and not a drop off as occurs in saturation. What I meant to say since I obviously am using the wrong word terminology here is that a volume of material can only be made so "magnetic" by the amp-turns that are magnetising it. So this point of saturation should first be determined so that in this size model 1000 watts might be an overkill of energy used to magnetize. As one can see two parameters offer themselves in the definition of amp-turns vs energy input. One can either use very low resistance wire carrying a higher amperage and fewer turns; or higher resistance wire carrying less amperage with a greater amount of turns. Since you want to use 120 volts dc the 2nd approach seems necessary. Lets see what the coil would look like using 23 gauge wire. This is listed as 48.1 ft/ohm. At 1000 Watts input one would need to have 8.33 amps conduction @ 120 volts input! Assuming one would only want 1/3 amp conduction maximum on 23 gauge wire it is improbable that one would attempt to use 25 coils wired in parallel to achieve this 8.3 amp conduction. But if one did one finds that you need about 364 ohms to pass .33 Amps. At 48ohms/ft youwould need 17,491 ft of wire or 3.31 miles times 25 of these in parallel= 82.8 miles of wire.As you may observe there will not be enough space to wind on this comparatively small cylinder, but in fact if it were done some question exists whether the field would be just as strong or possibly stronger than if the iron cyclider were then removed!!! I cite this as a possibility in light of the fact whereas an iron core has a saturation point an air core does not. HDN > Further more, if you interested the nature of my research? Gladly share it > with you > also. > Thank you in advance... > > Mehmet.>> > > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 12:07:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08131; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:05:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:05:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199904271905.OAA12936@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Political-environment... Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:02:40 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"58cOY1.0.y-1.afW9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10089 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Aris, For a democratic country, I would say Japan has the best political/science environment. However, the US has the best citizen pool, private individual inventors. If our inventor pool and Japan's govt ever got together, we could rule the universe !!! Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Aris > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Political-environment... > Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 12:39 PM > > Dear all, > > Between the media hype some good news... Yesterday, on national television, I saw our > presidents > together... President Clinton was very intersted in President's Kok polder-policy, and > I can agree > we dutch do it pretty well... Of course not perfect but very well... > > Science and politics are very connected, in Holland we don't have this conspiracy > thing, so I think > it has something to do with the american "government-style"... > > I am not as experienced as many other on this list and so my question is: "what would > be a > political good science environment?" > > > Regards, > > Aris... > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 12:11:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA09174; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:09:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:09:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199904271909.OAA26283@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: PBS Frontline - The Dustbowl Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:07:23 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PqeLY3.0.FF2.-jW9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10090 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The way I heered it..... there was a natural aquifer running right up the middle of the country. After years of lots of irrigation farming, a drought came, the aquifer ran dry, and the system collapsed. Joe Portman ========= ---------- > From: Dennis C. Lee > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: PBS Frontline - The Dustbowl > Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 11:47 AM > > PBS Frontline show about the Dustbowl aired yesterday. Excess plowing of too > much land was sited as the cause of the Dustbowl. This is consistant with > Viktor Schauberger's theory of the 'Water Cycle'. > > Off to London, be back in a week. > > > Dennis > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 13:49:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA04379; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:45:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:45:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199904272045.WAA04548@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Political-environment... Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:46:13 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jQ4yU2.0.K41.f7Y9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10091 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Joe, Two more why-questions: Why has Japan the best politacal/sciense environment? And why has the US the best citizen pool? Aris > For a democratic country, I would say Japan has the best > political/science environment. However, the US has the best citizen pool, > private individual inventors. If our inventor pool and Japan's govt ever > got together, we could rule the universe !!! > Joe Portman > ========== > ---------- > > From: Aris > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Political-environment... > > Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 12:39 PM > > > > Dear all, > > > > Between the media hype some good news... Yesterday, on national > television, I saw our > > presidents > > together... President Clinton was very intersted in President's Kok > polder-policy, and > > I can agree > > we dutch do it pretty well... Of course not perfect but very well... > > > > Science and politics are very connected, in Holland we don't have this > conspiracy > > thing, so I think > > it has something to do with the american "government-style"... > > > > I am not as experienced as many other on this list and so my question is: > "what would > > be a > > political good science environment?" > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Aris... > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 13:54:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05792; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:50:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:50:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199904272049.WAA13947@irene.ctv.es> Old-X-Envelope-To: From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" To: Subject: RE: help requested on Alfred Hubbard (fwd) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:49:50 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t_A3E3.0.LQ1.-BY9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10092 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Bill You can found something in Perrault's site: http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/main.html Look the document number XI Vicente. ---------- > De: William Beaty > A: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Asunto: help requested on Alfred Hubbard (fwd) > Fecha: domingo 25 de abril de 1999 23:21 > > Can anyone help out Mr. Paijmans below? He's NOT on freenrg-L, so you'll > have to reply directly to th.paijmans@wxs.nl > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:56:00 +0200 > From: Theo Paijmans > To: billb@eskimo.com > Subject: help requested on Alfred Hubbard > > Dear mr. Beaty, > > Let me introduce myself. I am the author of: Free Energy Pioneer: John > Worrell Keely, (see: www.illuminetpress.com/keelytxt.html) > > Currently I am looking for xeroxes of newspaper articles on Alfred > Hubbard, the Seattle inventor, as well as photo's etc. > > I do hope you may be able to help me with this one! > > Kind regards, > > Theo Paijmans > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 14:24:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06777; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:16:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:16:50 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:09:07 EDT Subject: The EHD Flying Wing is now a reality... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Reply-To: JNaudin509@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"GJ8G91.0.of1.2bY9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10093 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear All, The ARDA Flying Wing v1.0 Prototype is now fully functional with the EHD propulsion. I have conducted successfuly the first tests this night for checking the basic concept of my ARDA Project (The Advanced Reduced Drag Aircraft )... Look at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav1.htm The ARDA Flying Wing v2.0 will soon fly in the sky.... Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 14:58:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09645; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:56:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:56:32 -0700 Message-ID: <001801be90f8$af963ae0$365895d1@premio> Reply-To: "Gene Marlin" From: "Gene Marlin" To: Subject: Re: PBS Frontline - The Dustbowl Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:55:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Csgmp2.0.UM2.GAZ9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10094 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >The way I heered it..... there was a natural aquifer running right up the >middle of the country. After years of lots of irrigation farming, a drought >came, the aquifer ran dry, and the system collapsed. >Joe Portman I have heard both opinions. I myself blame it on a sensitive environment, excess plowing, and a very severe drought, maybe with a little climate change. (You know how patches of your yard can spontaneously become patches of sand once the grass is damaged?) I think it is the Ogallala(sp?) aquifer that runs literally right down the Great Plains. It's still there but drying up fast, causing pressure on large cities in that area. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 15:18:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21174; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:17:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:17:04 -0700 From: broompilot@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:19:29 -0700 Subject: Re: Please help with electromagnet calculations. Message-ID: <19990427.151930.-75415.0.broompilot@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,6-7,10-11,15-17,20-23,25-27,30,33-35,37,39,41-42,45-46,49-50,53-55,57-59,63-64,66-75 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ubHlU2.0.kA5.VTZ9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10095 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Everybody! I took a simplistic look at the electromagnet problem to better visualize the ball park were are in here. I divided 1000 watts by 120 volts to get 8.33 amps. To see what effective resistance the coil (or coils) must have to pass 8.33 amps at 120 volts I divide 120 volts by 8.33 amps and get 14.40 ohms. To get a general idea of how much copper I need, regardless of how it is distributed (1 coil of large diameter wire or many paralleled coils of small diameter wire) I check Ye Olde wire table. Ye Olde wire table tells me that #12 copper wire can safely handle (under certain standard design specs.) 9.33 amps. whereas #13 can only handle 7.40 amps. #12 wire has 1.619 ohms /1000 feet so to get 14.40 ohms I divide 14.40 by 1.619 and get 8.89 thousand feet of wire. The table says that #12 wire has 50.59 feet/ pound so dividing 8890 feet by 50.59 I get approximately 176 pounds of BARE wire. The coil gets heavier and bulkier when I look at insulation. Imagine the size of this thing. Many years ago, I used to fabricate parts for scientific instruments and one thing we made was a 14 kilo Gauss electromagnet. The frame was made of cast iron. If we looked at the frame as it stands on the edge of one side, we saw that it was about 24 inches square, 3 inches thick and about 5 inches deep. There was a 4" dia. hole cut on each the left side and the right side so that 4" diameter cores could be inserted and slid toward the center of the frame. A coil was slid onto each core before the cores were brought together for a 3/4" gap. The coils had a inner diameter of 4" and an outer diameter of something like 14 " and were about 6" thick. They were water cooled and made of aluminum strip instead of wire. The aluminum strip was anodized to make the surfaces non-conducting, so the insulation was built-in chemically. This setup made the coil easier to cool,easier to wind and less bulky than if wire were used. The aluminum was a very heavy foil and you can imagine how many gazillion turns the coils must have had to have a layer thickness of 8 to 9 inches. We ran them at currents around 10 amps. so they were not too far from the currents we are talking about here. But, gee, look at the scope of the project. Mehmet, I definitely am all ears as to what you are up to here!! Do you need a specific intensity magnetic field (regardless of core diameter)? Do you have to have the specific 1 1/2" diameter? We concentrated the magnetic field by tapering the ends of the cores down to 3/4" dia. So even though the core was 4" in dia., the magnetic field was calculated with the 3/4" dia. of the ends and was much more concentrated. Perhaps we can be of better help if we knew what the magnetic field is intended to accomplish. Be Well, David E-Mail Address: broompilot@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 15:42:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30238; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:41:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:41:07 -0700 Message-ID: <37263D6C.66A57A86@harti.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:42:52 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, MKSBoysal@aol.com Subject: Re: Please help with electromagnet calculations. References: <19990427.151930.-75415.0.broompilot@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rMrXm.0.MO7.2qZ9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10096 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com broompilot@juno.com wrote: > > Hi Everybody! > I took a simplistic look at the electromagnet problem to better visualize > the ball park were are in here. > Hi, if you want to get the highest magnetic flux density B field, it does not depend how much power you put into there ! You can build it with very low loss power, if you use the Newman principle, many thousands windings at a higher wire diameter, which gives the same DC resistance as less windings with a smaller diameter wire. You just need energy to buildup the magnetic field inside a coil , not to keep it going (at least in theory, if you have superconduction wire)! If your coil would be superconducting, you would not need 1000 Watts, but 0 Watts to keep it going ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 16:23:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09108; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:21:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:21:59 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Political-environment... Message-Id: <925255277.29828.181@excite.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:21:17 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"xerFY.0.CE2.NQa9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10097 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:39:18 +0200, Aris wrote: > Dear all, > > Between the media hype some good news... Yesterday, on national television, I saw our > presidents > together... President Clinton was very intersted in President's Kok polder-policy, and > I can agree > we dutch do it pretty well... Of course not perfect but very well... Hi Aris< was ist polder-policy? > Science and politics are very connected, in Holland we don't have this conspiracy > thing, so I think > it has something to do with the american "government-style"... > > I am not as experienced as many other on this list and so my question is: "what would > be a > political good science environment?" > > > Regards, > > Aris.. "We the people" of these united states are continually subjected to the tyranny of our government. Local constitutional groups are forming all over the country to confront our defacto color of law government. This fight has mostly occurred through the court systems which are acting in a maritime jurisdiction. This defacto government has not yet taken our right to own arms. The do however take away the right to drive an automobile for non driving offences such as marijuana possesion anywhere at any time. They extort monies in the form of reinstatement fees to be allowed to have this permit to travel. They are making laws where no damaged party exists simply to extort monies from the public. This applies in imaginary accidents that never happen but could have: therefore you are then fined for not having an insurance policy even if you quit driving!! They are doing this in Ohio through the postal service. Now they get you straight through the mailbox with their extortion schemes. The best solution is simple, a military court martial for all the treasonous officials who have violated their oath of office by destroying the US constitution> If that means execution it will be determined by the appropriate military tribunal... That in my opinion is the best solution. HDN > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 18:05:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA05770; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:02:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:02:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199904280102.UAA29488@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Political-environment... Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:00:15 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zYLJo3.0.oP1.sub9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10098 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Big biz is closer tied to the Jap govt, and able to make the taxpayer pay for all research. When the Jap economy was real good, this really put them ahead on many products, such as robotics, digital TV, etc. These are just my thoughts. The American home inventor has always led the world....Edison, Tesla, Phillips, Ford......I guess it's because we are a diversified group of independent thinkers, and we certainly have an aggressive inventive spirit. Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: Aris > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Political-environment... > Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 3:46 PM > > Joe, > > Two more why-questions: > > Why has Japan the best politacal/sciense environment? > And why has the US the best citizen pool? > > Aris > > > For a democratic country, I would say Japan has the best > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 18:41:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17494; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:40:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:40:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990427170034.239f2124@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:00:34 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Please help with electromagnet calculations. In-Reply-To: <925236545.20527.115@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PeUoR1.0.sG4.qRc9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10099 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 11:09 AM 4/27/99 PDT, Harvey wrote: >On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:55:50 EDT, MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote: > >Hmm.. Never made an electromagnet but will venture >some thoughts. There is a thing called saturation of >a magnetic substance. Yes, you maks some points, Harvey. It has sounded like you have made some large electromagnets also, just air core, such as your 56 Henry coils. It sounds, Mehmet, that the question of Watts is one that will come further along in the design. First may be what magnetic field is required and where? Maybe the answer for the first is "as large as possible" and 1000W is all you can to use?? > some question >exists whether the field would be just as strong or >possibly stronger than if the iron cyclider were then >removed!!! I cite this as a possibility in light of >the fact whereas an iron core has a saturation point >an air core does not. HDN If there is a large air gap, it is difficult to saturate the iron core. For each cm air gap, about 8000 Amp-turns are required for a B field of 1 Tesla. Most magnetic steels saturate between 1 and 2 Tesla's. For the largest (pulse) fields, people seem to use HV capacitor discharges into coils of few turns. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 27 20:17:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12522; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:14:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:14:31 -0700 Message-ID: <37266096.98C230C5@telusplanet.net> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:12:54 -0500 From: "Don J. S. Adams" Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: brodeur@datanet.ab.ca, flea@planet.eon.net, queue@citytel.net, JMah@csn.de, fwhx6877@mb.infoweb.or.jp, idahojones@hotmail.com, csalayka@compusmart.ab.ca, whitman@brightok.net, queue@citytel.net, drelland@telusplanet.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, dsadams1@telusplanet.net Subject: 13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Xgdtu3.0.Z33.Nqd9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10100 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Is it just me or is something blatantly obvious going on here? Is somebody trying to tell us something? Or is this all coincidence? 13 Lunar Months 12 disciples + Christ = 13 12 Knights of the round table + King Arthur = 13 Princess Diana dies at the 13th Pillar 13 cards in each suit of playing cards On the American dollar bill; 13 Stars, 13 arrows, 13 leaves, 13 berries 13 rows of stones in the pyramid, 13 letters in E Pluribus Unum AND Annuit Coepitus American Income tax and the Federal Reserve started in 1913 Rockefellers started control of the Council of State Govts. in building 1313 13 original American colonies 13 original zodiac signs? 12 tribes of Israel plus the supposed mising '13th'? Friday the 13th Unlucky 13 in Norse mythology and on.... and on... and on.... -- Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just... let it happen. -- Special Agent Dale Cooper --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don J. S. Adams Managing Consultant RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 01:09:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA11812; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:07:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:07:42 -0700 Message-ID: <009e01be914e$fe427f40$7cbe8aa4@default> From: "LE CORFEC" To: Subject: American inventors Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:13:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009B_01BE915F.C13BE080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"iFcE9.0.Tu2.D7i9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10101 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009B_01BE915F.C13BE080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe, There is undoubtely a lot of american inventors: Fleming, Marconi, = Pasteur, Planck, Curie, Mendeleiv and the last but not the least =20 Muzej Nikole Tesle Proleterskih brigada 51 11000 Beograd (BELGRAD, Yougoslavia) Radno vreme muzeja:=20 7-15h Radno vreme izlo=9Ebe: Ponedeljak: zatvoreno Utorak-Petak: 10-12h i 16-18h Subota, Nedelja: 10-13h The world, I think, will wait a long time for Nikola Tesla's equal in achievement=20 and imagination."=20 E.H. Armstrong http://www.yurope.com/org/tesla/ulaz.htm ------=_NextPart_000_009B_01BE915F.C13BE080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Joe,

There is undoubtely a lot of american inventors: = Fleming,=20 Marconi, Pasteur, Planck, Curie, Mendeleiv and the last but not the = least =20

 

Muzej Nikole Tesle

Proleterskih = brigada=20 51
11000 Beograd
(BELGRAD, = Yougoslavia)

Radno vreme muzeja:=20
7-15h
Radno vreme izlo=9Ebe:
Ponedeljak: = zatvoreno
Utorak-Petak:=20 10-12h i 16-18h
Subota, Nedelja: = 10-13h

 

The = world, I think,=20 will wait a
long time for Nikola Tesla's
equal in achievement =
and=20 imagination."

E.H. Armstrong http://www.yurope.com/o= rg/tesla/ulaz.htm

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_009B_01BE915F.C13BE080-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 05:03:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA19891; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 05:01:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 05:01:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199904281201.HAA04824@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: American inventors Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:59:02 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"J_phh1.0.es4.SYl9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10102 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You sure are right about Tesla.....Joe Portman ================================== ---------- From: LE CORFEC To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: American inventors Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 3:13 AM Joe, There is undoubtely a lot of american inventors: Fleming, Marconi, Pasteur, Planck, Curie, Mendeleiv and the last but not the least Muzej Nikole Tesle Proleterskih brigada 51 11000 Beograd (BELGRAD, Yougoslavia) Radno vreme muzeja: 7-15h Radno vreme izložbe: Ponedeljak: zatvoreno Utorak-Petak: 10-12h i 16-18h Subota, Nedelja: 10-13h The world, I think, will wait a long time for Nikola Tesla's equal in achievement and imagination." E.H. Armstrong http://www.yurope.com/org/tesla/ulaz.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 06:32:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA07523; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:29:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:29:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:28:43 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca To: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Cc: freenrg-l Subject: Re: Water electrolyte experiment In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8Q3Vq3.0.Sr1.9rm9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10103 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill: Did anyone respond to your worthwhile question with real-world practical experience? Jorg Ostrowski __________________________________________________________________________ On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > > Has anyone tried lemon juice? > > I saw a science news bit on TV about 5 years ago about a guy who was trying > to replace solder flux with a foam of lemon juice as surface preparation in > automated soldering of printed circuit boards. > > Environmentaly it was a lot better when it came to disposal after use. > Not to mention safer to breath the fumes & smelling alot better too. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 06:58:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15263; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:56:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:56:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199904281356.PAA27438@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: American inventors Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:36:21 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xBnPF1.0.Kk3.3En9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10104 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I disagree!!!! There not all American, for sure Tesla not, Marconi was I believe Italian, Pasteur and Curie French (?) I really have to go to the library and upgrade my history knowledge................... to be continued... > You sure are right about Tesla.....Joe Portman > ================================== > > > Joe, > > There is undoubtely a lot of american inventors: Fleming, Marconi, Pasteur, > Planck, Curie, Mendeleiv and the last but not the least > > > > Muzej Nikole Tesle > > > Proleterskih brigada 51 > 11000 Beograd > (BELGRAD, Yougoslavia) > > Radno vreme muzeja: > 7-15h > Radno vreme izložbe: > Ponedeljak: zatvoreno > Utorak-Petak: 10-12h i 16-18h > Subota, Nedelja: 10-13h > > > > > The world, I think, will wait a > long time for Nikola Tesla's > equal in achievement > and imagination." > > E.H. Armstrong http://www.yurope.com/org/tesla/ulaz.htm > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 06:58:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15307; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:56:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:56:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199904281356.PAA27463@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Political-environment... Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:56:28 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gGTRT2.0.3l3.AEn9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10105 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Big biz is closer tied to the Jap govt, and able to make the taxpayer pay > for all research. When the Jap economy was real good, this really put them > ahead on many products, such as robotics, digital TV, etc. These are just > my thoughts. Ofcourse for market-orientated research Japan is good... I doubt if the invest in alternative energy sources as much... Perhaps only if the are to much oil depended... Like I said I don't think Japan invest in science we like t do, perhaps they do but I don't understand Japanese writing...:-)) > The American home inventor has always led the world....Edison, Tesla, > Phillips, Ford......I guess it's because we are a diversified group of > independent thinkers, and we certainly have an aggressive inventive spirit. Well in the early days we made science when American were shooting arrows and hunting bizons...(lol).. I do believe America has a better "culture" to raise "science", for example the Netherlands are small and has a "anguage-barrier"... Also America is a country where "outlaw" like Tesla went to, like in the 16th century many scientist went to our country cause they had more freedom to do what they want to do... I would like to see in the future a better system where people like us can do what they are good at... If I can work out what a good science-environment is and know to communicate with politicians it is a future where we can grow to more easily then a very big country like America... Also the difference is that dutch are less aggresive spirits, simply because we can smoke pot and drive cars without justice chasing us up.......(very big smile).. Regards, Aris.... > Joe Portman > =========== > ---------- > > From: Aris > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Political-environment... > > Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 3:46 PM > > > > Joe, > > > > Two more why-questions: > > > > Why has Japan the best politacal/sciense environment? > > And why has the US the best citizen pool? > > > > Aris > > > > > For a democratic country, I would say Japan has the best > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 07:43:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30127; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:41:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:41:09 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:40:10 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:33:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Water electrolyte experiment In-reply-to: To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" Cc: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2019ZXWZF9BK7 X400-MTS-identifier: [;01040182409991/3697224@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"BOqFk3.0.eM7.4un9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10106 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jorg, I think Joe Portman made a comment on the solder flux concept, but nothing yet on the electrolytic use. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >Bill: Did anyone respond to your worthwhile question with real-world >practical experience? Jorg Ostrowski >__________________________________________________________________________ >On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: >> >> Has anyone tried lemon juice? >> >> I saw a science news bit on TV about 5 years ago about a guy who was trying >> to replace solder flux with a foam of lemon juice as surface preparation in >> automated soldering of printed circuit boards. >> >> Environmentaly it was a lot better when it came to disposal after use. >> Not to mention safer to breath the fumes & smelling alot better too. >> >> Bill >> webriggs@concentric.net >> >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 08:43:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22017; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:41:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:41:23 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:40:24 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:48:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: American inventors In-reply-to: <199904281356.PAA27438@poindexter.wirehub.nl> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2025ZXWZGOSIM X400-MTS-identifier: [;42041182409991/3697467@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"0OGHb.0.wN5.Zmo9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10107 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Aris, I think the original message was a bit of tongue in cheek. I think everyone on the list was from outside the USA, at least originally. Tesla was born in Smijlan, Croatia, closer to LE CORFEC's part of the planet. Bill webriggs@concentric.net >I disagree!!!! >There not all American, for sure Tesla not, Marconi was I believe Italian, >Pasteur and Curie French (?) >I really have to go to the library and upgrade my history >knowledge................... >to be continued... >> You sure are right about Tesla.....Joe Portman >> ================================== >> >> >> Joe, >> >> There is undoubtely a lot of american inventors: Fleming, Marconi, Pasteur, >> Planck, Curie, Mendeleiv and the last but not the least >> >> Muzej Nikole Tesle >> >> >> Proleterskih brigada 51 >> 11000 Beograd >> (BELGRAD, Yougoslavia) >> >> Radno vreme muzeja: >> 7-15h >> Radno vreme izlobe: >> Ponedeljak: zatvoreno >> Utorak-Petak: 10-12h i 16-18h >> Subota, Nedelja: 10-13h >> >> The world, I think, will wait a >> long time for Nikola Tesla's >> equal in achievement >> and imagination." >> >> E.H. Armstrong http://www.yurope.com/org/tesla/ulaz.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 09:10:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA32280; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:09:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:09:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:08:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199904281608.SAA23290@mail.rhein-zeitung.de> From: "Alexander Huhn" Subject: Re: American inventors X-Spanska: Yes To: undisclosed-recipients:; Resent-Message-ID: <"6_-8q1.0.Hu7.ZAp9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10109 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 09:11:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA32143; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:09:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:09:03 -0700 From: "Alexander Huhn" To: Subject: Re: American inventors Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:09:08 +0200 Message-ID: <002101be9191$72565ae0$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"YaDxJ1.0.2s7.UAp9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10108 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You are right, Aris...! And Max Planck was also a German! :-))) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 13:23:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30750; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:19:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:19:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199904282019.PAA03448@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: American inventors Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:16:43 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"os4Lj2.0.MW7.0rs9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10110 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hey, I'm full blood German and it don't help me any, except that when I electrocute myself, I always manage to survive it. Joe Portman ========== ---------- > From: Alexander Huhn > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: American inventors > Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 11:09 AM > > You are right, Aris...! > > And Max Planck was also a German! :-))) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 13:32:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01242; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:30:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:30:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199904282030.PAA04955@mw3.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Political-environment... Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:27:53 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1KfP62.0.JJ.V_s9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Aris, Good luck with the pot. I don't use it, but a lot of my friends do. (I must be part Dutch...I don't care if someone wants to use it)It doesn't seem to matter too much, though, about the cops. In San Antonio, Texas, we have about 1 cop per 2000 people, so justice is quite superficial, unless of course, you are the 1 out of 2000 that gets caught. Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: Aris > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Political-environment... > Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 8:56 AM > > > Big biz is closer tied to the Jap govt, and able to make the taxpayer pay > > > don't understand Japanese writing...:-)) > > > The American home inventor has always led the world....Edison, Tesla, > "outlaw" like Tesla went to, like in the 16th century many > Also the difference is that dutch are less aggresive spirits, simply because we can > smoke > pot and drive cars without justice chasing us up.......(very big smile).. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 20:29:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA27132; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:27:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:27:45 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <40396151.24592a7d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:22:37 EDT Subject: Earth Imaging Satellite Disappears To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: MKSBoysal@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"X9j_12.0.nd6.n6z9t"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Interesting news below: We know about the sword, that cuts both ways but can't cut itself. The eye that sees can't see itself and now also spy satellites that can't find itself. I think, no matter how far technology advances, man made creation if it was not based upon love will not serve the divine purpose, and will crash. Man can't conquer outer space for before he conquers inner space, earth dwellers can't even traced where they came from nor where they're going, before and after life. Bound by the fear of death that creates all selfish acts not realizing the mystery that creates all misery (wars and killing in every form), that is nothing but all delusion. Until man will realized that there is no coming or going, no inner or outer space, no past or a future that is ever available. He who sleeps can't know that he's dreaming. He who is awaken knows, only present, available here and now... Mehmet Boysal Earth Imaging Satellite Disappears By JOHN ANTCZAK .c The Associated Press LOS ANGELES (April 28) - Aerospace experts are puzzling over a high-tech mystery: A satellite that can take the kind of detailed photos once limited only to spy satellites has vanished. Ikonos 1 disappeared Tuesday almost immediately after it was launched from California's coast. It was a blow to Space Imaging, a Denver company that planned to market the high-resolution images, and Lockheed Martin, maker of the four-stage Athena II rocket that carried the satellite. Crews at ground stations along Ikonos 1's predicted path listened hopefully for signals emitted by the satellite, while its makers tried to figure out what went wrong. ``The initial investigation has begun,'' said Evan McCollum, a Lockheed spokesman. The Athena II rocket carrying the satellite roared off a Vandenberg Air Force Base launch pad at 11:22 a.m., bound for an orbit 400 miles high. Communication with the spacecraft ended about eight minutes after liftoff, as planned. But the craft failed to re-establish contact as expected later in the flight. Officials didn't know whether it remained in orbit. If the 1,600-pound satellite fell out of orbit, there was little if any risk it could survive re-entry and hit the ground, McCollum said. Ikonos 1, named after the Greek word for ``image,'' has a camera capable of resolving objects 1 meter square -- about 10 square feet. The satellite would be able to distinguish between a car and truck, according to Space Imaging. Until now, only military satellites have been able to photograph Earth in such detail. Some experts said they worried that images from Ikonos 1 could be used by terrorists or enemy governments to plan attacks or spot mobilizing troops. The federal government approved the satellite in 1994. Space Imaging, a privately held company, said it expects its clients to use the images for urban planning, environmental monitoring, mapping, assessing the scope of natural disasters, oil and gas exploration, monitoring farmland and planning communication networks. Space Imaging has built a spare satellite. John Copple, the company's chief executive officer, said he expects it will be launched before the end of the year. He said the satellite, launch and other mission assets were insured but he would not reveal their value. The satellite was built by Lockheed Martin Commercial Space Systems of Sunnyvale, Calif. Raytheon Co. of Garland, Texas, built the communications, image processing and other elements of the system. The Eastman Kodak Co. built the digital camera system. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 28 22:11:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA31528; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:10:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:10:05 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:07:30 EDT Subject: Man healed himsef from Jet Plain Contrails CC: USCMike1@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: MKSBoysal@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"CojFQ.0.Xi7.ic-9t"@mx1> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com D. I. Y. FORMULA IS HERE BELOW: As you all know lots of people got sick about the very nasty chemicals that comes out of Jet plains you can see them almost every state sky. Whether by intent or a mistake, God only knows: I myself got very sick few weeks a go non stop my nose run it I had a difficulty to breath. Believe it or not I even thought changing the country too. But has been about a week or so I feel somewhat okay. But here what I wanted to tell you: Please read this below: To day I met a friend of mine at hardware store during the quick chat, I asked him how is he doing, if there is any news in he's life? With the great excitement he said that "he healed himself" from Jet Plain Contrails. (He was so sick for at least few month, and I mean real sick. He was in terrible shape) Anyway he told me that he healed himself with Silver Water. (Most people knows what is the silver water) I asked him to tell me how he did it? This guy is an electronic wiz by the way: But you don't need to be one, Process is very simple, you can make your own. He said: Process is simple, Drink a silver water about a pint a day. Or make your own: And here is how: go to jewelry store but some silver wire (Ask for Pure silver 9,999,999,999) like 2 pieces 6 inches long about 1/8" diameter. Put a plastic or wood about an 1/8 inch between so wires stays a part and won't touch one other. Then get a 36 volt "DC" Direct Current from adapter or a simply buy 3 small rectangular 9 Volt butteries connect them in series. ( -- to + so on) and finally last Positive and negative terminals you connect them to silver wires immediately you'll see water will start turn into yellow, that's the silver water there people talking about. Keep the battery power on till water turns on yellow. 20 to 40 seconds or how ever long you need to. Make your own fresh silver water daily. Note: 2 Silver coins with insulator between will work too, but keep the copper wires out of water. My friend told me he healed himself by drinking pint of silver water a day. And he looked real healthy, full of energy and strength, he wasn't lying either I could see it too. Hey I just remember, he said he help he's friend to be healed too. Thought just to share with you folks, please pass it on. Written or verbal, with your own words or what ever. This has been a terrible infection we are all suffering and hopefully no more. I'll keep you posted with my own experience when I make my own, this weekend. Or let us hear your own story: God Bless all. MKSB.>> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 29 01:17:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA09251; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:14:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:14:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:14:36 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: IBM's thermoconvertors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"egJ-K1.0.OG2.nJ1At"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello, Harold Aspden suggested these pages. I'll get the patent and find out what happened. I need time to think so may go quite for a little bit. Harold's site contains - alot! truncate URL to see the lot. http://www.energyscience.co.uk/notes/rn9705.htm http://www.energyscience.co.uk/notes/rn9702.htm Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 29 05:33:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29955; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:31:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:31:34 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:45:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Political-environment... Message-ID: <19990429.083115.258.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-47,49 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"mWOLX2.0.yJ7.c45At"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Unfortunately, I believe that there is an element of mutual exclusivity in these two approaches. Whenever the government gets involved it tends to kill the agressive inventive spirit. So that the Japanese approach allowed them to make incrimentally better existing products it prevented them from being able to come up with the "totally new" kind of inventions that the American home inventor has. Yes, we need both kinds, but getting them both in one political system would be extremely difficult. Dave On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:00:15 -0500 "Joe Portman" writes: > Big biz is closer tied to the Jap govt, and able to make the taxpayer > pay > for all research. When the Jap economy was real good, this really > put them > ahead on many products, such as robotics, digital TV, etc. These are > just > my thoughts. > The American home inventor has always led the world....Edison, > Tesla, > Phillips, Ford......I guess it's because we are a diversified group > of > independent thinkers, and we certainly have an aggressive inventive > spirit. > Joe Portman > =========== > ---------- > > From: Aris > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Political-environment... > > Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 3:46 PM > > > > Joe, > > > > Two more why-questions: > > > > Why has Japan the best politacal/sciense environment? > > And why has the US the best citizen pool? > > > > Aris > > > > > For a democratic country, I would say Japan has the best > > > > ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/3992/dt.html The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 29 07:29:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA28638; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:27:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:27:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199904291427.JAA00584@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: , Cc: Subject: Re: Man healed himsef from Jet Plain Contrails Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:24:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8b_E.0.N_6.Dn6At"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The worst thing in a con trail is nitric oxide...I believe. If you live close to an airport on an inversion day, it can bother you. Joe Portman ========= ---------- > From: MKSBoysal@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Cc: USCMike1@aol.com > Subject: Man healed himsef from Jet Plain Contrails > Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 12:07 AM > > D. I. Y. FORMULA IS HERE BELOW: > > As you all know lots of people got sick about the very nasty chemicals > that comes out of Jet plains you can see them almost every state sky. > Whether by intent or a mistake, God only knows: > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 29 07:32:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29971; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:31:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:31:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199904291431.JAA01202@mw1.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: , Subject: Re: Earth Imaging Satellite Disappears Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:28:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nHPzG.0.CK7.fq6At"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10117 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You don't suppose God snatched it ?.....or maybe it was the ... Joe Portman =========== ---------- > From: MKSBoysal@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Earth Imaging Satellite Disappears > Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 10:22 PM > > Interesting news below: We know about the sword, that cuts both ways but > can't cut itself. > The eye that sees can't see itself and now also spy satellites that can't > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 29 12:22:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27075; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:20:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:20:45 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Cater Device Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:18:50 +0200 Message-ID: <01be925b$f7c64d00$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"U_IYC1.0.Nc6.C4BAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all Has anyone ever tried the Cater device as described in Geoff's pages? Aside from the mysterious German group that Cater mentions which unfortunately noone can find. Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 29 14:11:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08420; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:06:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:06:32 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <1ef9fdb3.245a237d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:05:01 EDT Subject: ARDA Flying Wing v2.0, Project now started To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Resent-Message-ID: <"YrEsb2.0.T32.OdCAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear All, After my successful test of the ARDA v1.2 about the enhanced EHD wing (http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav11.htm ) I have decided to start the pre-study phase of the ARDA v2.0...and soon the building phase.. With a 30kV HV power supply (PS weight : 1400g (CdNi batteries included)), the estimated wing loading will be about 28g/dm^2 The Airfoil profile will be an Eppler 338 with the special EHD features... If you are interested to see the first pictures of the design of my ARDA v2.0, look at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav2pr.htm More to come soon, I will keep you informed, Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 29 14:52:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16145; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:50:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:50:29 -0700 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000428083506.006976dc@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:35:06 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tim Vaughan's email address? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"z46uR2.0.Tx3.ZGDAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I was previously working on a project with Tim Vaughan, and have been unable to make contact since my return from overseas. If anyone has his current email address, it would be much appreciated. Private reply please. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 01:23:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA00548; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:20:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:20:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990430185133.00831b80@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:51:33 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Need some info on making a potters kiln Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qLsaE.0.T8.6VMAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I need some help in finding detials on how to put together a simple potters kiln so I can reheat some stainless steel to 1100 degres c for my joe cell experiements. Does someone on this list know where on the net I can get some reliable info to make a kiln preferable from recyclable materials and at litle cost Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html last updated November 1998 my postal address as follows Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Energy 21 website now resides at http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html Bright Sparks website. http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ our site search facility is located at. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 02:12:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA10803; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:08:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:08:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199904300908.TAA23108@lebunka.ion.com.au> From: "Pop" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:42:13 Subject: Re: Man healed himsef from Jet Plain Contrails Reply-to: pop79@altavista.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Resent-Message-ID: <"ewyKb.0.be2.yBNAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jet trails? Have I missed something? Tell us how you went with it. On 29 Apr 99 at 1:07, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > D. I. Y. FORMULA IS HERE BELOW: > > As you all know lots of people got sick about the very nasty chemicals > that comes out of Jet plains you can see them almost every state sky. > Whether by intent or a mistake, God only knows: > > I myself got very sick few weeks a go non stop my nose run it I had a > difficulty to breath. Believe it or not I even thought changing the country > too. > But has been about a week or so I feel somewhat okay. > > But here what I wanted to tell you: Please read this below: > To day I met a friend of mine at hardware store during the quick chat, I > asked him how is he doing, if there is any news in he's life? > With the great excitement he said that "he healed himself" from Jet Plain > Contrails. > (He was so sick for at least few month, and I mean real sick. He was in > terrible shape) > Anyway he told me that he healed himself with Silver Water. (Most people > knows what is the silver water) I asked him to tell me how he did it? > This guy is an electronic wiz by the way: But you don't need to be one, > Process is very simple, you can make your own. > > He said: Process is simple, Drink a silver water about a pint a day. > Or make your own: > And here is how: > go to jewelry store but some silver wire (Ask for Pure silver 9,999,999,999) > like 2 pieces 6 inches long about 1/8" diameter. Put a plastic or wood about > an 1/8 inch between so wires stays a part and won't touch > one other. Then get a 36 volt "DC" Direct Current from adapter or a simply > buy 3 small rectangular 9 Volt butteries connect them in series. ( -- to + so > on) > and finally last Positive and negative terminals you connect them to silver > wires > immediately you'll see water will start turn into yellow, that's the silver > water there people talking about. Keep the battery power on till water turns > on yellow. 20 to 40 seconds or how ever long you need to. Make your own fresh > silver water daily. > Note: 2 Silver coins with insulator between will work too, but keep the > copper wires out of water. > My friend told me he healed himself by drinking pint of silver water a day. > > And he looked real healthy, full of energy and strength, he wasn't lying > either I could see it too. > Hey I just remember, he said he help he's friend to be healed too. > > Thought just to share with you folks, please pass it on. Written or verbal, > with your own words or what ever. This has been a terrible infection we are > all suffering and hopefully no more. I'll keep you posted with my own > experience when I make my own, this weekend. > Or let us hear your own story: > > God Bless all. > MKSB.>> > > > > > > _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Pop, in an uncontrolled environment Email: pop@ion.com.au (ISP) pop79@altavista.net (forwarded, prefered) pop79@mailexcite.com (backup) WWW: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/nova/229/index.htm _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 02:43:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA25940; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:40:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:40:27 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: BRAG schematic Message-Id: <925465194.13594.640@excite.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:39:54 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.60 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"wiyRt2.0.DL6.BgNAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Binary Resonant Arc Gap Schematic ( when I wrote this document in word pad and pasted it into Excite Compose Mail the drawing came out different because the right side shifted. I made the corrections but does any one know why this happens? 0 -----------------------!---------------------- ! ! ! ! ! ! Cap Coil ! ! ! ! !---------- (arc gap)--------------------! ! ! ! ! ! ! Coil Cap ! ! ! ! !---------------------------------------------! ! 0 Arc across gap represents special tank circuit occurring as two caps in series being in parallel with two coils in series. As such its respective inductances and capacitances are doubled in this circumstance. However this doubling only serves to double the internal resistance of that experienced in a SINGLE parallel resonant. It does not change the frequency at which the circuit resonates. (In the experiments I made L and C were given values to resonate at 120 v , 60hz,with identical values on each side of course.) This tank circuit has the special distinction of allowing the midpoint path where the arc occurs to be shared by both the inductive AND capacitive branches of current flow; however these expressed currents are themselves opposite or 180 phased. BECAUSE of the fact that this current path itself is shared in OPPOSITE directions by both, instead of a cancellation effect a doubled negative occurs in which these currents that are normally 180 out of phase are then in unity across this pathway,thus the measured current on closed switch position or dead short is twice that of the sides alone. It should then be obvious that the open switch position (which in this air gap analogy represents the quenched arc) then represents an entirely new condition: that of two series resonant phases at 180 phasing. At the moment one phase experiences a positive resonant rise of voltage the other produces a negative. Thus the measured voltage BETWEEN the midpoints where the arc occurs is then TWICE that of either side alone. Indeed it is this dual opposite rise of voltage on each side that enables the arc to take place in the first place. In the 56 H binary system intially constructed this voltage rise was about 30/1 enabling a high frequency effect form the arc gap to accur at wall voltage conditions alone without the use of a step up transformer! Further modifications produced a typical tesla arcing across a water capacity that was impressive in that this 1/3 inch discharge of miniature lightening is produced at an energy discharge estimated at 10 watts input! The condition during arcing changes the condition of minimum or zero reactance to that of one of maximum impedance which in the case of large inductors where the q's of the coils have caused the ignition at the spark gap, the instant withdrawal of this resonant rise of voltage to a new condition of practically no voltage at the arc gap, contradicted by the new condition of resonant rise of amperage instead of voltage rise still nevertheless very efficiently quenches the arc which is usually violet or blue disharges. Again whether this same kind of arc gap used in conjunction with two tesla primaries could be made is open to experimentation. Sometimes more important agendas assert themselves. IT SHOULD BE SEEN THAT THIS TANK CIRCUIT CONSISTS OF TWO SERIES L AND C BRANCHES IN PARALLEL WITH THE DISTINCTION THAT IT HAS BEEN TWISTED INTO A FIGURE 8, MAKING A NEW PATHWAY SHARED BY BOTH SIDES FROM OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS WHEREBY AN ARC GAP IS PLACED AT THIS MIDPOINT. THIS REPRESENTS A FLUCTUATION BEWEEN SERIES AND PARALLEL RESONANCES RATHER THAN AN OSCILLATION IN AND OUT OF PARALLEL RESONANCE AS OCCURS IN A TYPICAL TESLA PRIMARY. AN OBJECTION MAY BE MADE THAT THE RESONANT RECHARGING METHOD IN TESLA PRIMARY ARC GAPS INCORPORATES BOTH A SERIES AND PARALLEL CONFIGURATION, BUT AS THE POSITION OF THE ARC GAP SHOWS IN THE SCHEMATIC, THIS METHOD IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FROM THE FORMER. hdn _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 02:55:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA12473; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:53:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:53:07 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BRAG schematic Message-Id: <925465949.8589.211@excite.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:52:29 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.60 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"Q5cA-.0.g23.2sNAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:39:54 PDT, Harvey Norris wrote: Sorry about last diagram< the version I just recieved has everything messed up which means everyone else must have recieved it in a messed up version. I guess I messed this one up but all it was supposed to be was a figure 8. I must have to compose the drawing in compose mail selection and cannot use word pad before. Any opinions? Too late to recompose, maybe try another time. HDN > Binary Resonant Arc Gap Schematic > ( when I wrote this document in word > pad and pasted it into Excite Compose > Mail the drawing came out different > because the right side shifted. I made the corrections > but does any one know why this happens 0 > -----------------------!---------------------- > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! > Cap > Coil > ! > ! > ! > ! > !---------- (arc > gap)--------------------! > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! > Coil > Cap > ! > ! > ! > ! > !---------------------------------------------! > ! > > 0 > Arc across gap represents special tank circuit occurring > as two caps in series being in parallel with two coils in > series. As such its respective inductances and capacitances > are doubled in this circumstance. However this doubling > only serves to double the internal resistance of that > experienced in a SINGLE parallel resonant. It does not > change the frequency at which the circuit resonates. > (In the experiments I made L and C were given values > to resonate at 120 v , 60hz,with identical values on > each side of course.) This tank circuit has the special > distinction of allowing the midpoint path where the arc > occurs to be shared by both the inductive AND > capacitive branches of current flow; however these > expressed currents are themselves opposite or 180 phased. > BECAUSE of the fact that this current path itself > is shared in OPPOSITE directions by both, instead of > a cancellation effect a doubled negative occurs in which > these currents that are normally 180 out of phase are > then in unity across this pathway,thus the measured current > on closed switch position or dead short is twice that > of the sides alone. > It should then be obvious that the open switch > position (which in this air gap analogy represents the > quenched arc) then represents an entirely new condition: > that of two series resonant phases at 180 phasing. At > the moment one phase experiences a positive resonant > rise of voltage the other produces a negative. Thus the > measured voltage BETWEEN the midpoints where the > arc occurs is then TWICE that of either side alone. > Indeed it is this dual opposite rise of voltage on each > side that enables the arc to take place in the first place. > In the 56 H binary system intially constructed this voltage > rise was about 30/1 enabling a high frequency effect > form the arc gap to accur at wall voltage conditions > alone without the use of a step up transformer! > Further modifications produced a typical tesla arcing > across a water capacity that was impressive in that this > 1/3 inch discharge of miniature lightening is produced > at an energy discharge estimated at 10 watts input! > The condition during arcing changes the condition of > minimum or zero reactance to that of one of maximum > impedance which in the case of large inductors where > the q's of the coils have caused the ignition at the spark > gap, the instant withdrawal of this resonant rise of voltage > to a new condition of practically no voltage at the arc gap, > contradicted by the new condition of resonant rise of > amperage instead of voltage rise still nevertheless very > efficiently quenches the arc which is usually violet or blue > disharges. Again whether this same kind of arc gap > used in conjunction with two tesla primaries could be > made is open to experimentation. Sometimes more > important agendas assert themselves. > IT SHOULD BE SEEN THAT THIS TANK CIRCUIT > CONSISTS OF TWO SERIES L AND C BRANCHES > IN PARALLEL WITH THE DISTINCTION THAT IT > HAS BEEN TWISTED INTO A FIGURE 8, MAKING > A NEW PATHWAY SHARED BY BOTH SIDES > FROM OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS WHEREBY > AN ARC GAP IS PLACED AT THIS MIDPOINT. > THIS REPRESENTS A FLUCTUATION > BEWEEN SERIES AND PARALLEL RESONANCES > RATHER THAN AN OSCILLATION IN AND OUT > OF PARALLEL RESONANCE AS OCCURS IN A > TYPICAL TESLA PRIMARY. AN OBJECTION > MAY BE MADE THAT THE RESONANT RECHARGING > METHOD IN TESLA PRIMARY ARC GAPS INCORPORATES > BOTH A SERIES AND PARALLEL CONFIGURATION, > BUT AS THE POSITION OF THE ARC GAP SHOWS > IN THE SCHEMATIC, THIS METHOD IS ENTIRELY > DIFFERENT FROM THE FORMER. hdn > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 04:22:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA01193; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:19:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:19:43 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: 3rd diagram try Message-Id: <925471141.14490.68@excite.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:19:01 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"ULe-11.0.YI.E7PAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Binary Resonant Arc Gap schematic; In posting this to another discussion list I noticed that when I drew the schematic on word pad and pasted into excite compose mail it came out garbled because of different font sizes? I am therefore attempting to write this again directly from the mailbox this time, forgive if it is garbled. 0 ! ----------------- ! ! ! ! cap coil ! ! !------ X ------! ! ! coil cap ! ! !---------------! ! 0 Cap and coils are identically designated to resonate at the input frequency. X is the placement of the arc gap. 0's are AC input. Arc across gap represents special tank circuit occurring as two caps in series being in parallel with two coils in series. As such its respective inductances and capacitances are doubled in this circumstance. However this doubling only serves to double the internal resistance of that experienced in a SINGLE parallel resonant. It does not change the frequency at which the circuit resonates. (In the experiments I made L and C were given values to resonate at 120 v , 60hz,with identical values on each side of course.) This tank circuit has the special distinction of allowing the midpoint path where the arc occurs to be shared by both the inductive AND capacitive branches of current flow; however these expressed currents are themselves opposite or 180 phased. BECAUSE of the fact that this current path itself is shared in OPPOSITE directions by both, instead of a cancellation effect a doubled negative occurs in which these currents that are normally 180 out of phase are then in unity across this pathway,thus the measured current on closed switch position or dead short is twice that of the sides alone. It should then be obvious that the open switch position (which in this air gap analogy represents the quenched arc) then represents an entirely new condition: that of two series resonant phases at 180 phasing. At the moment one phase experiences a positive resonant rise of voltage the other produces a negative. Thus the measured voltage BETWEEN the midpoints where the arc occurs is then TWICE that of either side alone. Indeed it is this dual opposite rise of voltage on each side that enables the arc to take place in the first place. In the 56 H binary system intially constructed this voltage rise was about 30/1 enabling a high frequency effect form the arc gap to accur at wall voltage conditions alone without the use of a step up transformer! Further modifications produced a typical tesla arcing across a water capacity that was impressive in that this 1/3 inch discharge of miniature lightening is produced at an energy discharge estimated at 10 watts input! The condition during arcing changes the condition of minimum or zero reactance to that of one of maximum impedance which in the case of large inductors where the q's of the coils have caused the ignition at the spark gap, the instant withdrawal of this resonant rise of voltage to a new condition of practically no voltage at the arc gap, contradicted by the new condition of resonant rise of amperage instead of voltage rise still nevertheless very efficiently quenches the arc which is usually violet or blue disharges. Again whether this same kind of arc gap used in conjunction with two tesla primaries could be made is open to experimentation. Sometimes more important agendas assert themselves. IT SHOULD BE SEEN THAT THIS TANK CIRCUIT CONSISTS OF TWO SERIES L AND C BRANCHES IN PARALLEL WITH THE DISTINCTION THAT IT HAS BEEN TWISTED INTO A FIGURE 8, MAKING A NEW PATHWAY SHARED BY BOTH SIDES FROM OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS WHEREBY AN ARC GAP IS PLACED AT THIS MIDPOINT. THIS REPRESENTS A FLUCTUATION BEWEEN SERIES AND PARALLEL RESONANCES RATHER THAN AN OSCILLATION IN AND OUT OF PARALLEL RESONANCE AS OCCURS IN A TYPICAL TESLA PRIMARY. AN OBJECTION MAY BE MADE THAT THE RESONANT RECHARGING METHOD IN TESLA PRIMARY ARC GAPS INCORPORATES BOTH A SERIES AND PARALLEL CONFIGURATION, BUT AS THE POSITION OF THE ARC GAP SHOWS IN THE SCHEMATIC, THIS METHOD IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THE FORMER. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 05:34:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA13781; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:33:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:33:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199904301233.HAA22179@mw2.texas.net> From: "Joe Portman" To: Subject: Re: Need some info on making a potters kiln Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:30:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xdVWA2.0.EN3.5CQAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Geoff, I think your best bet is to look for a used kiln. Lot's of people get into ceramics and then quit. Maybe run an ad, or call a few ceramic shops. Joe Portman ========= ---------- > From: GEOFF EGEL > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Need some info on making a potters kiln > Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 4:51 AM > > I need some help in finding detials on how to put together a simple > potters kiln > > Does someone on this list know where on the net I can get some reliable > info to make a kiln > preferable from recyclable materials and at litle cost > > Geoff > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Solaris searching for natures energy sources. > Our main site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > Get the complete enecyclopedia of free energy version 1 from us at no cost > at http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/freebies.html > > last updated November 1998 > > my postal address as follows > Geoff Egel > 18 Sturt Street > Loxton 5333 > South Australia > Australia > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Energy 21 website now resides at > http://www.FortuneCity.com/greenfield/bp/16/index.html > > Bright Sparks website. > > http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ > > our site search facility is located at. > > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/orgone.htm > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 05:59:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA19404; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:57:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:57:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3729A90E.CABB6017@harti.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:58:54 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Harvey Norris Subject: Re: 3rd diagram try References: <925471141.14490.68@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ujb-k.0.5l4.uYQAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Harvey Norris wrote: > > Binary Resonant Arc Gap schematic; > In posting this to another discussion > list I noticed that when I drew the schematic > on word pad and pasted into excite compose > mail it came out garbled because of different > font sizes? I am therefore attempting to write this > again directly from the mailbox this time, forgive if it is garbled. > 0 > ! > ----------------- > ! ! > ! ! > cap coil > ! ! > !------ X ------! > ! ! > coil cap > ! ! > !---------------! > ! > 0 > Hi Harvey, your diagram came through this time. So are there any overunity effects or just the arcing effects ? Have you done any efficiency measurements in any way ? What is so special about it ? Have you tried any aircore transformer inside the X arcgap to transform the HV down to useable output ? Like in: http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/bark.htm Try this and report efficiencies ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 06:00:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA19705; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:59:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:59:26 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 3rd diagram try Message-Id: <925477133.22255.395@excite.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:58:53 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.41 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"eoDI13.0.kp4.jaQAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In the previous entry I noted that when the two coils are combined in parallel with the two caps both their respective reactances were doubled yeilding the same resonant frequency. In reality the inductance is doubled and the capacitance is halved so that the quantity LC still remains identical. Wasnt really thinking on the initial statement and got careless. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 07:01:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02104; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:57:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:57:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:57:35 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ARDA Flying Wing v2.0, Project now started In-Reply-To: <1ef9fdb3.245a237d@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"yMDmL1.0.nW.QRRAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jean-Paul, Just some questions. A water molecule is 'v' shaped and polar, should that move non-reactively? It seems that the higher the voltage, the better the process is, but you will always get some kind of breakdown: air or some kind of field emission. How can these ever be surmounted? Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 07:06:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03904; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:04:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:04:06 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:17:04 -0400 Subject: Re: BRAG schematic Message-ID: <19990430.100413.284.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-9,14-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"smf-_2.0.vy.MXRAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:39:54 PDT "Harvey Norris" writes: > Binary Resonant Arc Gap Schematic > ( when I wrote this document in word > pad and pasted it into Excite Compose > Mail the drawing came out different > because the right side shifted. I made the corrections > but does any one know why this happens? yes, it is usually because your word processor uses by default a proportional font which will make the spaces bigger or smaller to make the document prettier. Your email program usually defaults to a nonproportional font. If you are going to create something in your word processor for emailing, change to a nonproportional font first. Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 08:04:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22106; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:02:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:02:20 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:59:24 EDT Subject: Re: ARDA Flying Wing v2.0, Project now started To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: R.O.Cornwall@city.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Resent-Message-ID: <"cmZlL1.0.JP5.xNSAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 30/04/99 16:03:59, R.O.Cornwall@city.ac.uk wrote : > It seems that the higher the voltage, the better the > process is, but you will always get some kind of breakdown: air or some > kind of field emission. How can these ever be surmounted? > Remi. Hi Remi and All, Yes of course sparks kill the effect and this is power losses, so this must be avoid. It is possible to kill or delay sparks with a strong magnetic field, with special gaz or better high K dielectric.. In my Arda v2.0 (http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav2pr.htm), I have shown that this works with the thin negative electrode covered by a dielectric sheet, so the gap between the electrode can be in closed volume. Thus in this gap you may use High K dielectric or special gaz... For your informations : ARDA v2.0 specifications : ------------------------------------ Wing span : 1460mm Lenght : 1255mm Wing area : 70 dm^2 Aifoil profile : Eppler 338 with special EHD features Payload ( +30kV Hv generator, CdNi battery, Avionic and control equipment ) : 1800g Estimated weight: 3500g Estimated wing load : 50 g/dm^2 Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 09:06:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08743; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:05:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:05:09 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:03:43 EDT Subject: ARDA v2.0 - Update To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Resent-Message-ID: <"G6i9x1.0.S82.rITAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear All, The small 30kV (DC) High Voltage Power supply for my ARDA v2.0 Flying Wing is now finished and works fine. Voltage Input : 16 V Current Input : 1.8 A Voltage Output : 30 kV Weight = 412g You will find the picture of this HV generator and also the pictures of the avionic and control equipment at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav2pr.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 09:17:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA12256; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:16:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:16:01 -0700 From: DEADWATE@aol.com Message-ID: <29c7baa7.245b3006@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:10:46 EDT Subject: Re: Need some info on making a potters kiln To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"EYOad1.0.P_2.1TTAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gas fired or electric? Gas can be elaborate, electric being the simplest. A decent temperature controller may be hard to find, but fire brick should be easy, as will nichrome wire (used electric space heaters etc.) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 12:01:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00318; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:59:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:59:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3729FDEE.7DA24A54@harti.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:01:02 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, JNaudin509@aol.com Subject: Re: ARDA v2.0 - Update References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qQL4r.0.o4.8sVAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Dear All, > > The small 30kV (DC) High Voltage Power supply for my ARDA v2.0 Flying Wing is > now finished and works fine. > > Voltage Input : 16 V > Current Input : 1.8 A > Voltage Output : 30 kV > Weight = 412g > > You will find the picture of this HV generator and also the pictures of the > avionic and control equipment at : > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav2pr.htm > Hi JL, that is really a lot of power input ! Almost 29 Watts ! Does it have so many losses ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 12:07:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01921; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:04:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:04:36 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 3rd diagram try Message-Id: <925499049.2786.875@excite.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:04:09 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.42 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"aDxPB.0.tT.4xVAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:58:54 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >Hi Harvey, > > your diagram came through this time. > > So are there any overunity effects or > just the arcing effects ? Seems to be just arc effects. > Have you done any efficiency measurements in any > way ? Yes,it is not OU > What is so special about it ? It does not seem to produce EM interference. > Have you tried any aircore transformer inside the X arcgap The arc gap is not a function of space but rather only a position in a schematic. Air core transformers are only 1% efficient. > to transform the HV down to useable output ? > > Like in: > > http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/bark.htm > Try this and report efficiencies ! >Thanx,I have heard of barkhausen effect > before will regard. HDN > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 13:16:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22521; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:14:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:14:59 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <2ddaf61d.245b68e0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:13:20 EDT Subject: Re: ARDA v2.0 - Update To: harti@harti.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA22501 Resent-Message-ID: <"B_r6s1.0.oV5.2zWAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dans un courrier daté du 30/04/99 21:09:59é), harti@harti.com a écrit : > that is really a lot of power input ! > Almost 29 Watts ! > Does it have so many losses ? > Hi Stefan, Only electronic engineering... I have used a bipolar TIP3055 transistor, this can be really improved with a MosFet transistor.. a BUZ11 or a IRF520 can be better due to its low RDS... Regards, Jean-Louis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 13:20:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23246; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:18:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:18:00 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:17:34 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Reno AntiGravity Conference June 27-28 Resent-Message-ID: <"m5kRM.0.7h5.t_WAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:36:22 -0700 (PDT) From: james cox Subject: RENO ANTIGRAVITY CONFERENCE To: Patrick Bailey Patrick: Post notice/GENERAL RELEASE that this [AGN] will be quarterly starting this year for $24/year US, $28 Canada, and $32 foreign. [See: http://www.padrak.com/agn/] RENO ANTIGRAVITY CONFERENCE scheduled for June 27-28 at the Public Library auditorium at liberty & center street. Meet at nearby Pioneer Casino/Hotel Prime Rib deli area for lunch "reception" at 11 AM Sunday. I will send attendees badges for identification they should wear at this time upon payment of registration fee. Auditorium/library opens at noon and has a 100 seat limitation with nice stage/table/screen set-up movie theatre style. $48 ticket (includes 1 lb T-bone dinner at Prime Rib restaurant) must be paid via mail only (or at reception as last chance) as no cash transactions are permitted at library. 50% discount to students and AGN subscribers and speakers. Schedule continues until Monday as required, so book motel room early (summer peak tourist season!) Pioneer:(800)648-5468 ($36/nite) or Ramada(775)329-4251($40/nite group rate). Detailed agenda to be posted next month. Lots on inertia propulsion (Dean and gyro models). Don't procrastinate on this one, please!! Call Jim Cox in RENO at (775)323-5796-pause-extension 127 anytime day or nite. Checks payable to James E. Cox Enterprise. Fully refundable if you decide to cancel. Should be a real mind-blower conference!!! --Jim Cox From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 14:48:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA07853; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:44:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:44:05 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:41:30 -1000 Subject: Re: Need some info on making a potters kiln From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904301800.SM00205@[206.127.240.158]> Resent-Message-ID: <"lpeqP1.0.Pw1.aGYAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Geoff - >I need some help in finding detials on how to put together a simple >potters kiln >so I can reheat some stainless steel to 1100 degres c for my joe cell >experiements. > > >Does someone on this list know where on the net I can get some reliable >info to make a kiln >preferable from recyclable materials and at litle cost > >Geoff Here's the cheapest kiln, but temperature control will be a spotty proposition: Make a low cost "Raku" kiln. Get some "Kaowool" ceramic fiber matt insulation material from a ceramics supplier. Make a roll of chicken wire to confine the roll of Kaowool lining into a simple chamber. Mount the thing on the ground, and use a section of pipe and a hair dryer or squirrel cage blower (pullout from equipment) with propane to blow flame in a circular flow around the bottom. The work should sit on a wire rack up in the middle of the chamber with the flame rising up around it. You should be able to construct the whole thing in an afternoon for $100. You can also use such a kiln to make aluminum castings in sand or plaster shell molds. Even cheaper: find someone who does pottery and pay them a few $ to run up your steel in their nice temperature controlled kiln. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 16:29:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA26226; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:28:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:28:39 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:32:27 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:24:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: RE: ARDA Flying Wing v2.0, Project now started In-reply-to: <1ef9fdb3.245a237d@aol.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2022ZXXBF26V7 X400-MTS-identifier: [;72230103409991/3702451@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"5zxUj1.0.hP6.doZAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Jean-Louis, Have you checked that your propulsion field will not interfere with your remote control receiver that is enclosed by or in proximity to the field. I know your using DC, but you could still have some kind of dampening effect. Your basically putting a radio receiver inside a capacitor. Bill webriggs@concentric.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 17:34:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08938; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:33:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:33:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990430160835.229787a0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:08:35 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Need some info on making a potters kiln In-Reply-To: <199904301800.SM00205@[206.127.240.158]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3FrcG2.0.ZB2.zkaAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 11:41 AM 4/30/99 -1000, you wrote: >Geoff - > >>I need some help in finding detials on how to put together a simple >>potters kiln >>so I can reheat some stainless steel to 1100 degres c for my joe cell >>experiements. >> >> >>Does someone on this list know where on the net I can get some reliable >>info to make a kiln >>preferable from recyclable materials and at litle cost >> >>Geoff >Even cheaper: find someone who does pottery and pay them a few $ to run up >your steel in their nice temperature controlled kiln. 1100 deg. C is about (Orton) cone 03, if you go this route. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 30 23:17:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA11797; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:15:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:15:48 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <719172a6.245bf5ef@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 02:15:11 EDT Subject: Re: ARDA Flying Wing v2.0, Project now started To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: MH2_BRIGGS@odnvms.a1.ohio.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Resent-Message-ID: <"ozM2t1.0.Eu2.KmfAt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 01/05/99 01:30:02, MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov wrote : > Jean-Louis, > > Have you checked that your propulsion field will not interfere with your > remote > control receiver that is enclosed by or in proximity to the field. > > I know your using DC, but you could still have some kind of dampening effect. > > > Your basically putting a radio receiver inside a capacitor. > Hi Mathias, Yes, of course, this is my big engineering problems now... I have two problems to solve : 1) The HighVoltage back to the wire antenna of my receiver which can kill in input MosFet 2) The strong EMI generated by the HV generator due to the switching driver... The first problem "seems" solved (only the experimental test will confirm it), because as you can see in my ARDA v1.0, the wings are only covered on the left and on the right side of the fuselage, so the middle part remains non-conductive... This can preserve a bit the HV back... The Second problem is more difficult, I need to check it experimentaly... With some shielding may be this can be solved... Thanks for your comments and your help, Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin